1
00:00:35,920 --> 00:00:39,000
Speaker 1: All right, welcome everybody. We're back with my good buddy

2
00:00:39,079 --> 00:00:42,719
David Patrick Harry, who is now doctor David Patrick Harry.

3
00:00:43,240 --> 00:00:48,240
Don't you dare fail to leave out that PhD. He's

4
00:00:48,280 --> 00:00:52,240
got the ability to write dissertations, he can do surgeries.

5
00:00:52,399 --> 00:00:56,320
He's a doctor now he can do it all. Just kidding. Congratulations,

6
00:00:56,399 --> 00:00:58,479
doctor d Thanks brother.

7
00:00:58,520 --> 00:01:01,119
Speaker 2: I appreciate that. You know, it's been in a long

8
00:01:01,200 --> 00:01:03,280
time in the making, and I remember talking to you

9
00:01:03,320 --> 00:01:06,840
back in like twenty twenty one twenty two about and

10
00:01:06,920 --> 00:01:09,560
I changed my dissertation topic so I had to basically

11
00:01:09,599 --> 00:01:12,519
restart after doing all the research to start on one

12
00:01:12,599 --> 00:01:15,040
which is actually going to tie with today's stream because

13
00:01:15,040 --> 00:01:17,239
the initially I was going to do one on the

14
00:01:17,280 --> 00:01:21,400
history of psychedelic mysticism, which then got changed to transhumanism.

15
00:01:21,480 --> 00:01:24,959
So finally glad to be done with that and pretty

16
00:01:24,959 --> 00:01:27,680
anxious to finally get that published and have an actual

17
00:01:27,680 --> 00:01:31,640
physical book to sell and go along with some of

18
00:01:31,680 --> 00:01:35,959
my research and work. So I appreciate the congratulations and

19
00:01:35,959 --> 00:01:38,239
thanks for having me on to it. I really appreciate it.

20
00:01:38,879 --> 00:01:42,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, I caught the debate that you guys had as

21
00:01:42,719 --> 00:01:44,840
your sort of panel debate with your Gnostic dude, And

22
00:01:44,840 --> 00:01:50,079
I was just realizing how like it seems like gnostics

23
00:01:50,120 --> 00:01:52,840
and cult leaders like they all kind of drift in

24
00:01:52,920 --> 00:01:55,000
the domain of looking more and more like Manson. They

25
00:01:55,040 --> 00:01:57,560
all kind of like take they do a Manson vibe

26
00:01:57,599 --> 00:01:58,239
and aesthetic.

27
00:01:59,000 --> 00:02:01,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, he was convince it's that, you know, the whole

28
00:02:01,560 --> 00:02:04,560
Rigman role that Jesus was a mushroom, which comes out

29
00:02:04,599 --> 00:02:07,920
of John Marco Allegro's book. It's like the Sacred Mushrooms.

30
00:02:08,000 --> 00:02:09,439
Speaker 1: When you said that, I was going to ask you

31
00:02:09,479 --> 00:02:11,319
about Allegro. But we'll get to that here in a

32
00:02:11,319 --> 00:02:11,639
little bit.

33
00:02:11,719 --> 00:02:15,159
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, Yeah, well I'll save it from when we

34
00:02:15,199 --> 00:02:15,800
get to it then.

35
00:02:16,520 --> 00:02:18,639
Speaker 1: Yeah, well before we get to before we get to

36
00:02:18,639 --> 00:02:21,520
all that. So, uh, you know, you've had a pretty wild,

37
00:02:21,759 --> 00:02:26,120
uh exciting journey. I mean you had, you know, time

38
00:02:26,159 --> 00:02:28,599
that you spent overseas. You were in China for a

39
00:02:28,639 --> 00:02:34,280
long time. Did you get into a lot of like

40
00:02:34,360 --> 00:02:37,599
did you study kind of Eastern Eastern philosophy during that

41
00:02:37,639 --> 00:02:38,520
period in your life?

42
00:02:39,879 --> 00:02:42,479
Speaker 2: Yeah? Uh, during my undergrad so I grew up kind

43
00:02:42,520 --> 00:02:45,280
of like conservative Methodist, and I remember I took a

44
00:02:45,319 --> 00:02:49,400
Bible course at my university during undergrad and it was

45
00:02:49,599 --> 00:02:52,639
by a critical scholar who wasn't Christian, and so I

46
00:02:52,680 --> 00:02:55,520
was introduced like the multiple multiple authorship theory of the

47
00:02:55,560 --> 00:02:59,319
Gospels and the syncretism between the Epic of Gilgamesh and

48
00:02:59,800 --> 00:03:04,439
just totally annihilated this naive methodist Christianity I grew up with.

49
00:03:04,599 --> 00:03:07,479
And so I took another course on intro to world

50
00:03:07,479 --> 00:03:11,960
religions and became really interested in Daoism, Buddhism specifically, but

51
00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:16,159
also also Hinduism and just Eastern mysticism generally speaking. And

52
00:03:16,199 --> 00:03:20,759
so I did to study abroad trips to southern China

53
00:03:20,960 --> 00:03:26,479
at Sunyat, sin junk Shandashue and Guangzhou, and that was

54
00:03:26,560 --> 00:03:31,039
really eye opening because Chinese culture is not the antiquated

55
00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:35,159
Confucian Dallas blend that most people think. I mean, they're

56
00:03:35,280 --> 00:03:38,400
very pragmatic, like capitalist oriented people, so they are not

57
00:03:38,680 --> 00:03:40,599
very much interested in some of that ancient history that

58
00:03:40,680 --> 00:03:43,199
I liked. But yeah, I spent two summers there and

59
00:03:43,400 --> 00:03:45,840
was really interested in the Eastern mysts. At that time.

60
00:03:45,879 --> 00:03:48,000
I was like getting into Alan Watts and that type

61
00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:52,000
of stuff and thinking that this perennial spirituality somehow led

62
00:03:52,039 --> 00:03:56,719
to like ultimate universal truth. So yeah, that was a

63
00:03:57,439 --> 00:03:58,599
go ahead, No.

64
00:03:58,759 --> 00:04:00,240
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, I was just trying to refrain, rushed

65
00:04:00,280 --> 00:04:02,639
myself on. I know you spent time over there, and

66
00:04:03,479 --> 00:04:06,199
I remember you saying that when you came back, you know,

67
00:04:06,280 --> 00:04:11,039
you realized, like this wasn't really the the mysticism that

68
00:04:11,080 --> 00:04:13,479
I expected it to be. The Chinese people weren't really

69
00:04:13,520 --> 00:04:17,000
that into it that you said. They were very pragmatic

70
00:04:17,079 --> 00:04:19,720
and basically kind of a pretty much just capitalist for

71
00:04:19,720 --> 00:04:24,360
the most part, I guess, but uh, how and then

72
00:04:24,360 --> 00:04:27,120
you and then you kind of got more into focusing

73
00:04:27,160 --> 00:04:31,920
academically on writing originally on shrooms or you said you

74
00:04:32,040 --> 00:04:34,439
changed the original thesis. What did it change from?

75
00:04:35,680 --> 00:04:39,000
Speaker 2: So? Uh that was during undergrad and I finished the

76
00:04:39,079 --> 00:04:42,040
capstone project was on theories of magic. So I was

77
00:04:42,079 --> 00:04:45,560
interested in the ways in which some of the founders

78
00:04:45,560 --> 00:04:48,240
of the field of religious studies began to categor categorize

79
00:04:48,240 --> 00:04:52,480
the difference between magic and religion and science. That was

80
00:04:52,480 --> 00:04:56,360
a you know, uh, Frasier and Taylor and those types

81
00:04:56,399 --> 00:05:01,439
of guys, those early sociologists Durkheim. And during my master's degree,

82
00:05:01,439 --> 00:05:04,680
which was at the University of Illinois, I was deeply

83
00:05:04,759 --> 00:05:10,759
embedded into the psychoonot psychedelic mysticism worldview, Terence McKinnon, Timothy Leary,

84
00:05:10,839 --> 00:05:16,120
Robert Anton Wilson, you know, all those same characters. And

85
00:05:16,480 --> 00:05:19,160
during the master's program, I worked with an early Christian

86
00:05:19,199 --> 00:05:23,720
scholar and focused on really gnosticism and hermeticism during the

87
00:05:23,720 --> 00:05:26,079
time of the kind of the first three hundred years

88
00:05:26,120 --> 00:05:29,040
of Christianity and looking at that cultural malu And then

89
00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:32,319
there was a Native American scholar doctor treat at the

90
00:05:32,399 --> 00:05:35,399
University of Illinois, and with him I did a research

91
00:05:35,480 --> 00:05:39,519
project on like psychedelic shamanism, and at that time I

92
00:05:39,720 --> 00:05:45,879
was completely convinced of this sort of perennial, hermetic, magical,

93
00:05:46,000 --> 00:05:50,040
psychedelic worldview. But that my time there, especially working with

94
00:05:51,040 --> 00:05:53,720
the early Christian scholar, is that he told me one

95
00:05:53,720 --> 00:05:55,120
time he spent like a whole year, year and a

96
00:05:55,160 --> 00:05:57,480
half writing an article, and I was asking him about

97
00:05:57,480 --> 00:06:00,079
it during office hours. He's like, yeah, I essentially write this.

98
00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:02,399
There's one other scholar in Europe then they study the

99
00:06:02,439 --> 00:06:05,519
exact same thing, and he spends all this time to

100
00:06:05,519 --> 00:06:08,199
write articles, and essentially it's just a handful of other

101
00:06:08,319 --> 00:06:11,240
academics around the world that are even engaging in that conversation.

102
00:06:11,879 --> 00:06:14,439
And I realized damn that your whole career is just

103
00:06:14,759 --> 00:06:17,160
doing research for like three or four other people to

104
00:06:17,199 --> 00:06:20,439
actually interpret and understand. I thought, Man, I don't want

105
00:06:20,439 --> 00:06:23,040
to do any historical scholarship. It seems kind of boring.

106
00:06:24,360 --> 00:06:27,279
And so when I applied for the PhD program, initially

107
00:06:27,319 --> 00:06:30,600
I got accepted to study people who are spiritual but

108
00:06:30,680 --> 00:06:34,759
not religious and why they appropriate certain symbols. So anybody

109
00:06:34,879 --> 00:06:38,759
who's familiar with the rise of the nuns inne that's

110
00:06:38,800 --> 00:06:41,839
not in u n Those are people that when they

111
00:06:41,839 --> 00:06:45,040
fill out a Pew Research Center like religious demographic in

112
00:06:45,040 --> 00:06:48,040
the United States, they fill out the very bottom selection,

113
00:06:48,079 --> 00:06:52,240
which is none of the above, and that incorporates atheists, agnostics,

114
00:06:52,279 --> 00:06:54,839
but mostly people who are spiritual not religious, which is

115
00:06:54,879 --> 00:06:58,120
like eighty five percent of that cohort. So the majority

116
00:06:58,120 --> 00:07:01,319
of the people who are nuns people who identify as

117
00:07:01,360 --> 00:07:04,319
I'm spiritual but I'm not religious. And I think it

118
00:07:04,360 --> 00:07:08,560
was twenty eighteen that that non category became the and

119
00:07:08,600 --> 00:07:12,519
they differentiate Protestant from Catholicism, but it became the like

120
00:07:12,560 --> 00:07:16,120
thirty eight percent, like the biggest single demographic in the

121
00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:18,759
Pew Research Center, And so it was a kind of

122
00:07:18,759 --> 00:07:20,839
a hot topic that's why I got accepted for it.

123
00:07:21,839 --> 00:07:26,160
And during that period I actually read this book right

124
00:07:26,160 --> 00:07:28,199
here of the Psychedelic Gospels, which is going to come

125
00:07:28,279 --> 00:07:31,399
up in our conversation. And actually doctor Jerry Brown was

126
00:07:31,439 --> 00:07:34,920
on my PhD committee. So the people that were on

127
00:07:34,959 --> 00:07:37,600
my PhD committee had to a you know, very different

128
00:07:37,879 --> 00:07:40,839
They weren't Orthodox Christians, they had different interpretations of stuff.

129
00:07:40,879 --> 00:07:43,839
But what his research did was basically show that these

130
00:07:43,879 --> 00:07:48,160
frescoes that arrive really from the late nine hundreds and

131
00:07:48,399 --> 00:07:52,279
into the very early thirteen hundreds depicted like this weird

132
00:07:52,480 --> 00:07:57,600
mushroom relationship with Christ and people during that time really

133
00:07:57,639 --> 00:08:00,680
began to argue, based on John Marco Legro and tying

134
00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:02,800
all this stuff, well, look, this is evidence that Christianity

135
00:08:02,879 --> 00:08:06,639
used magic mushrooms. And at that time I had a

136
00:08:06,680 --> 00:08:10,759
previous YouTube channel promoting psychedelics and so I thought, oh,

137
00:08:10,800 --> 00:08:13,720
that's great. Well, even as a psychoanod when I read

138
00:08:13,720 --> 00:08:16,519
the book and then did a research paper on that topic,

139
00:08:16,639 --> 00:08:19,839
I came to the conclusion that this really wasn't connected

140
00:08:19,879 --> 00:08:22,720
with historical Christianity. I wasn't even a Christian at the time.

141
00:08:22,759 --> 00:08:24,879
What it was tied to was the resurgence of a

142
00:08:24,920 --> 00:08:28,480
gnostic heresy that came from the East and entered into

143
00:08:28,519 --> 00:08:33,440
southern France, the Cathars, the Albagensians, and so where they

144
00:08:33,480 --> 00:08:35,879
were finding a lot of this evidence, be it in

145
00:08:35,919 --> 00:08:40,080
Germany and France, northern Italy and even places in Turkey.

146
00:08:41,240 --> 00:08:44,639
There were always around these sort of gnostic heresies. So

147
00:08:44,799 --> 00:08:47,080
I wrote a paper not arguing that it was the

148
00:08:47,200 --> 00:08:51,480
historical Eucharist, but actually there were Gnostic practices, and that

149
00:08:51,600 --> 00:08:54,480
led to another research paper I wrote trying to look

150
00:08:54,519 --> 00:09:01,159
at gnostic sects like the Carpocrations and the Borbarites, who

151
00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:05,039
were actually engaging in explicit psychedelic and deberating use for

152
00:09:05,159 --> 00:09:11,360
these magical gnostic initiation purposes. So from there I thought, man,

153
00:09:11,919 --> 00:09:15,360
I bet because I was familiar with at least Eastern

154
00:09:15,440 --> 00:09:19,080
Orthodoxy having icons. I thought, man with all those icons,

155
00:09:19,120 --> 00:09:21,039
because when you look at some of the evidence here

156
00:09:21,480 --> 00:09:26,159
it is sort of iconographic if you will, Like this

157
00:09:26,240 --> 00:09:30,120
is in this right here is the depiction of Adam

158
00:09:30,159 --> 00:09:33,679
and Eve at the bottom of the Jesse tree in Hildesheim, Germany,

159
00:09:34,159 --> 00:09:37,000
and clearly they're pulling these little white balls off and

160
00:09:37,080 --> 00:09:40,159
eating them, which again was insinuated by the author and

161
00:09:40,200 --> 00:09:42,480
other people have looked at it at some type of

162
00:09:42,840 --> 00:09:47,480
psychedelic aminitemiscaria use. So I thought, man, I wonder if

163
00:09:47,480 --> 00:09:49,360
Eastern Orthodoxy he's gonna have all this stuff. So I

164
00:09:49,399 --> 00:09:52,440
took a PhD Course on the history and theology of

165
00:09:52,480 --> 00:09:56,039
the Orthodox Church, and that didn't and so I was

166
00:09:56,200 --> 00:10:00,240
ingratiated to Orthodoxy from that. Definitely didn't find any of

167
00:10:00,279 --> 00:10:05,480
the mushrooms I found in these cathar frescoes, but became

168
00:10:05,519 --> 00:10:07,600
aware of the worldview in the paradigm.

169
00:10:07,639 --> 00:10:10,519
Speaker 1: I thought, wow, that let me ask you a question.

170
00:10:10,639 --> 00:10:12,679
Hold on, say, let me ask your question. So, just

171
00:10:12,679 --> 00:10:16,919
for my own interest in research, I remember encountering this idea,

172
00:10:17,120 --> 00:10:22,759
probably probably around twenty ten eleven twelve was the first

173
00:10:22,799 --> 00:10:24,600
time I heard this idea, maybe a little bit early,

174
00:10:24,679 --> 00:10:26,720
maybe two thousand and seven or eight, And I think

175
00:10:26,720 --> 00:10:28,639
it was like the early early phases of like the

176
00:10:28,720 --> 00:10:30,799
Joe Rogan remember when Joe Rogan started out and he

177
00:10:30,879 --> 00:10:33,559
was doing podcasts on his couch and and I remember

178
00:10:33,600 --> 00:10:36,720
them discussing this, you know, el John Lagro's book, And

179
00:10:37,240 --> 00:10:41,039
so first question is is a Legro the first one

180
00:10:41,080 --> 00:10:42,840
to pause of this theory or this other book that

181
00:10:42,879 --> 00:10:50,759
you're talking about and second question, are they actually looking

182
00:10:50,799 --> 00:10:54,039
at frescoes that actually have mushrooms or are they interpreting

183
00:10:54,039 --> 00:10:57,960
the frescoes to be mushrooms? And they and but they're

184
00:10:58,000 --> 00:11:01,919
actually you said they're fresco So how much of this,

185
00:11:02,200 --> 00:11:03,960
how much of is bullshit? How much of it's reels

186
00:11:04,000 --> 00:11:05,120
want to try to say.

187
00:11:04,919 --> 00:11:08,320
Speaker 2: Sure so John marcro Alegro's book, The Sacred Mushroom of

188
00:11:08,360 --> 00:11:11,679
the Cross is first he worked on the Dead Sea Scrolls.

189
00:11:11,720 --> 00:11:13,639
He was one of the scholars, and he was an

190
00:11:13,679 --> 00:11:18,360
expert in Semitic languages and Samrian and stuff like that. Well,

191
00:11:18,799 --> 00:11:22,240
apparently there was some type of problem he had with

192
00:11:22,279 --> 00:11:25,559
some of the other scholars because they weren't presenting all

193
00:11:25,639 --> 00:11:28,039
the translations and stuff they had found. So he wrote

194
00:11:28,039 --> 00:11:33,840
this book arguing, based on linguistics and etymology, that Christianity

195
00:11:33,879 --> 00:11:37,600
emerges from a mushroom fertility cold, that Jesus Christ was

196
00:11:37,639 --> 00:11:41,480
not a historical person, that the name Jesus actually came

197
00:11:41,519 --> 00:11:47,879
from a Samerian word for semen dripping mushroom, and that

198
00:11:48,039 --> 00:11:50,679
this was the sort of origins, and that because of

199
00:11:50,879 --> 00:11:55,360
the dogmatization of Christianity and the institutional forming of it,

200
00:11:55,440 --> 00:12:00,679
that they cleansed the inebriating Eucharist and made it essentially

201
00:12:00,679 --> 00:12:04,440
a sober symbol as opposed to what the or the

202
00:12:04,840 --> 00:12:06,960
early Christians or some of the ancient period that they

203
00:12:06,960 --> 00:12:10,000
are engaging with. So that has been totally debunked at

204
00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:14,360
this point. That book is only regurgitated by the psychedelic

205
00:12:14,559 --> 00:12:18,600
psychle Nott culture. There. I double checked today just looking

206
00:12:18,679 --> 00:12:21,879
at like Academia, I cannot find a single linguist, a

207
00:12:21,919 --> 00:12:25,679
single classicist, and these are atheist scholars, these aren't Christians

208
00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:29,000
or a single religious studies scholar that that still argues

209
00:12:29,039 --> 00:12:32,120
that John Marco Alegro's book has any validity to it.

210
00:12:33,080 --> 00:12:35,519
Speaker 1: I did, and I knew he was actually eventually sort

211
00:12:35,559 --> 00:12:38,120
of kicked out of academia because he had some other

212
00:12:38,159 --> 00:12:40,960
weird theories that he tried to push beyond just the

213
00:12:41,039 --> 00:12:44,480
mushroom thing. But that guy that you guys had on

214
00:12:44,480 --> 00:12:47,879
the stream, he was saying, Christ is the the mushroom

215
00:12:47,960 --> 00:12:50,159
is the flesh of Christ, or Christ is the flesh

216
00:12:50,200 --> 00:12:51,879
of God. Is that an allegro idea?

217
00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:55,080
Speaker 2: That is an allegro idea. Yeah, and that and and

218
00:12:55,679 --> 00:12:58,320
and it's not I mean gnostics were doing that. So

219
00:12:58,360 --> 00:13:00,360
we know for the fact that carp Create and the

220
00:13:00,399 --> 00:13:03,519
Barbarites and some of these other groups they were claiming

221
00:13:03,559 --> 00:13:06,840
the same thing. Now, gnosticism is kind of a dubious

222
00:13:06,919 --> 00:13:09,440
term because there's totally there's so many different schools in

223
00:13:09,480 --> 00:13:12,000
the ancient period, and they're competing with each other. So

224
00:13:12,200 --> 00:13:15,080
the Valentinians and the o Fights or the Barbarites, these

225
00:13:15,120 --> 00:13:17,720
they're not friendly per se. They're actually competing for a

226
00:13:17,759 --> 00:13:22,720
sort of dominance on the Gnostic interpretation. So those things

227
00:13:22,799 --> 00:13:26,159
were occurring. They were using aneebriating substances and claiming this

228
00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:28,679
was like the flesh of the gods, which is actually

229
00:13:29,960 --> 00:13:31,799
the title of one of McKinnon's books, The Food of

230
00:13:31,840 --> 00:13:33,960
the Gods, which is getting back to psilocyphin much that.

231
00:13:34,360 --> 00:13:36,559
Speaker 1: One I've read. Now, when you were showing those pictures,

232
00:13:36,600 --> 00:13:40,080
were you saying those were like frescoes and reliefs that

233
00:13:40,120 --> 00:13:43,240
were Catharai reliefs that had mushrooms or they're.

234
00:13:43,080 --> 00:13:45,960
Speaker 2: All in the area, yeah, where the cathars were, and

235
00:13:46,039 --> 00:13:48,639
so like some of the so this like this one

236
00:13:48,720 --> 00:13:52,279
right here, this is the famous one in Plane Crault, France.

237
00:13:52,480 --> 00:13:54,679
This is the depiction of Adam and Eve and it

238
00:13:54,720 --> 00:13:57,919
clearly looks like some type of a mushroom fresco. Now,

239
00:13:57,919 --> 00:13:59,919
the Plaine Krault Chapel, if you look into it, was

240
00:14:00,039 --> 00:14:03,519
actually created by the Knights Hospitallers, which according to at

241
00:14:03,600 --> 00:14:06,440
least my theory, is that many of these crusading groups,

242
00:14:06,480 --> 00:14:10,840
including the Knights Templars, kind of rediscovered these ancient gnostic

243
00:14:10,879 --> 00:14:13,080
heresies when they got to the Holy Land and they

244
00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:16,639
brought them back. So this like Plane Coral Chapel was

245
00:14:16,679 --> 00:14:20,759
built by the hospitalers and it has this really weird fresco. Now, no,

246
00:14:20,799 --> 00:14:22,919
it's not used anymore, but this fresco you can actually

247
00:14:22,919 --> 00:14:27,600
still go visit. Now, another church in France depicts like

248
00:14:27,639 --> 00:14:33,000
this is the entrance of Christ, like his entry into Jerusalem,

249
00:14:33,039 --> 00:14:35,080
and you can see all these guys holding what appeared

250
00:14:35,080 --> 00:14:38,360
to be these red mushrooms and like once extending one

251
00:14:38,360 --> 00:14:41,279
out to Christ. And then if you follow that chapel around,

252
00:14:41,360 --> 00:14:45,440
you'll see here is this one is the purification of

253
00:14:45,480 --> 00:14:47,919
Isaiah's lips, where it looks like God's handing out a

254
00:14:47,960 --> 00:14:50,840
sort of mushroom cap. And then if you follow the

255
00:14:50,919 --> 00:14:52,840
chapel around at the top, then it gets to the

256
00:14:52,879 --> 00:14:55,600
towers of Jerusalem and these guys look like they're cutting

257
00:14:55,679 --> 00:15:00,960
down mushrooms. And then at the very last depiction in

258
00:15:01,039 --> 00:15:03,480
the chapel is the Last Supper, and of course you

259
00:15:03,559 --> 00:15:06,080
see these same mushrooms then cut up and placed on

260
00:15:06,440 --> 00:15:11,000
the table here. So regarding how much of it is

261
00:15:11,039 --> 00:15:13,840
fake or how much of it is just pure interpretation,

262
00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:15,919
and how much is their actual evidence, I would argue

263
00:15:15,919 --> 00:15:18,159
for some of these churches, I mean, it's hard to

264
00:15:18,200 --> 00:15:20,960
come to a different conclusion. Now, some of this other stuff,

265
00:15:22,480 --> 00:15:26,120
you know, like the Great Canterbury Salter is used to

266
00:15:26,279 --> 00:15:29,919
argue like the creation of plants right here is fun guy.

267
00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:33,000
Now I've actually looked into that and the way that

268
00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:37,559
they're presented as fun guy is actually used in different iconography,

269
00:15:37,559 --> 00:15:39,720
and it's not trying to depict mushrooms. It's just a

270
00:15:39,840 --> 00:15:43,679
sort of esthetic. But the Hildesheim Chapel, as I was

271
00:15:43,679 --> 00:15:46,240
talking to you about this one, right here on the

272
00:15:46,279 --> 00:15:52,000
front doors Bishop Bernard who was head of that parish

273
00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:55,840
in Germany, hild his Heim, Germany, the metal doors going

274
00:15:55,879 --> 00:16:01,960
into the church actually have anatomically correct psilocybin mushrooms of

275
00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:07,679
that area in Germany. So I think some of it

276
00:16:07,720 --> 00:16:12,879
is legitimate that something was going on in the historical period.

277
00:16:12,960 --> 00:16:14,600
Of all this evidence, some of it I think is

278
00:16:14,679 --> 00:16:18,320
dubious interpretation, claiming, oh, that's a mushroom right there, but

279
00:16:18,480 --> 00:16:21,200
it's all within, you know, we can't I can't find

280
00:16:21,240 --> 00:16:25,159
any evidence before like the late nine hundreds, which is

281
00:16:25,240 --> 00:16:29,080
right around the time where these nostic groups. You know,

282
00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:33,000
during the Byzantine period they hated gnostics and so if

283
00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:35,960
you were in like say Anatolia proper, you were either

284
00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:40,039
forced to recant your heresy and convert or you had

285
00:16:40,039 --> 00:16:43,320
to get kicked out of the empire. And so tons

286
00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:46,519
of these nostic groups actually begin to move towards Armenia,

287
00:16:46,559 --> 00:16:49,240
and so you get like the tone Drachians and the Polisians,

288
00:16:49,759 --> 00:16:53,639
and then from there eventually they they moved to Bulgaria,

289
00:16:53,639 --> 00:16:56,759
where you get the Bogomills, and it's believed that the

290
00:16:56,840 --> 00:16:59,759
Cathars are a form of the Boga mills that moved

291
00:16:59,799 --> 00:17:03,080
in further into Western Europe. So the way I look

292
00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:05,599
at as the historical progression is, you know, around the

293
00:17:05,640 --> 00:17:08,960
Mediterranean area northern Africa ancient period, and then it moves

294
00:17:09,599 --> 00:17:13,079
eastward and then eventually, through more persecution, it moves westward

295
00:17:13,119 --> 00:17:17,000
and ends in south southern France, southern Germany and northern

296
00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:21,160
Italy that type of area. And then during the Pope

297
00:17:21,200 --> 00:17:24,039
Innocent the Third you have the beginning of the Inquisition

298
00:17:24,119 --> 00:17:29,319
and the killing of the Albergensians for these heresies, and

299
00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:32,279
also the leaders of the Knights Templars, which eventually then

300
00:17:32,440 --> 00:17:35,559
go up to Scotland where Robert the Bruce accepts all

301
00:17:35,559 --> 00:17:39,799
these Knights Templars and according to their own legends, they

302
00:17:39,799 --> 00:17:42,519
are the founders of the Scottish Freemasonry, and that they

303
00:17:42,559 --> 00:17:47,559
then institute these ancient gnostic rituals into Scottish Freemasonry. And

304
00:17:47,200 --> 00:17:50,640
that's also echoed by Albert Pike. So that's not me

305
00:17:50,880 --> 00:17:53,599
just making a theory. That's what these people actually claim.

306
00:17:54,039 --> 00:17:56,680
And I have this Book of Chemically Stone, which is

307
00:17:56,720 --> 00:17:59,720
by PD Newman, who is a Freemason and is claiming

308
00:17:59,759 --> 00:18:02,839
the exact same thing that freemakes Newery is actually based

309
00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:05,759
off these ancient gnostic and nebriating rituals.

310
00:18:07,079 --> 00:18:09,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, for those that are interested in the medieval heresies,

311
00:18:09,960 --> 00:18:14,000
there's a really well known scholarly text by Malcolm Lambert

312
00:18:14,759 --> 00:18:16,640
that some years back I read, and I took a

313
00:18:16,680 --> 00:18:19,599
whole bunch of notes on it. If you want a

314
00:18:19,640 --> 00:18:22,759
full sort of three hour walk through of that. You

315
00:18:22,759 --> 00:18:25,400
can find that on my channel. It's called Medieval Heresies.

316
00:18:25,519 --> 00:18:27,079
And then we go through the Boggle Mails. We go

317
00:18:27,119 --> 00:18:30,839
through the history of the Cathariye all the way up

318
00:18:30,880 --> 00:18:35,920
to the Waldensians, and how that Gnostic trend actually ends

319
00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:40,160
up influencing a lot of Protestantism. But let's rewind a

320
00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:42,799
little bit, go back to the time of those many,

321
00:18:42,799 --> 00:18:45,119
many Gnostic sects that we were talking about. I remember

322
00:18:45,160 --> 00:18:48,559
reading some years ago Aaronaeus is against Heresies, and in

323
00:18:48,599 --> 00:18:51,440
the first few hundred pages he details dozens and dozens

324
00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:55,039
and dozens of varying Gnostic sects, all kind of competing,

325
00:18:55,079 --> 00:18:58,240
like you noted, and he does mention several of them,

326
00:18:58,599 --> 00:19:01,000
at least a few that can recall. I remember one

327
00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:03,079
of them is a guy named Marcus, and Marcus had

328
00:19:03,079 --> 00:19:05,559
his own cult, and he was a ritual magician, and

329
00:19:05,599 --> 00:19:14,279
he was utilizing some form of consciousness altering, inebriating substance,

330
00:19:14,799 --> 00:19:18,039
and Internets talks about this, and when Jamie, now we're

331
00:19:18,079 --> 00:19:22,119
on a journey to Las Vegas last year, on our

332
00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:27,000
own little esoteric journey to Vegas. We read on the

333
00:19:27,039 --> 00:19:29,240
way there, on the way back the Cambridge Companion to

334
00:19:29,640 --> 00:19:32,880
Western mysticism and esoterism. And this isn't I'm not trying

335
00:19:32,920 --> 00:19:35,680
to like stump you or quiz you or anything. I

336
00:19:35,720 --> 00:19:38,160
just want to get your take on something that I

337
00:19:38,160 --> 00:19:41,200
had not really seen before, which kind of seems like

338
00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:43,119
it would be obvious and it's right up your alley.

339
00:19:43,160 --> 00:19:46,319
But the person that wrote the first chapter on the

340
00:19:46,359 --> 00:19:53,519
Ancient Mysteries goes into great detail discussing the the Elusinian

341
00:19:53,599 --> 00:19:59,200
mysteries and the Greek esoteric cults maybe a little bit

342
00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:05,039
prior to Gnostic era, the Mythra cult, and what the

343
00:20:05,079 --> 00:20:08,720
conclusion that this person came to was that most likely

344
00:20:08,759 --> 00:20:11,039
in the Elusinian mysteries, and you might take you may

345
00:20:11,119 --> 00:20:13,039
have a different view. I'm not sure, but that's what

346
00:20:13,039 --> 00:20:15,759
I want to ask you about it. They argue. This

347
00:20:15,799 --> 00:20:19,599
person argues that it's a death and resurrection journey of

348
00:20:19,640 --> 00:20:23,799
the soul sort of ritual that goes on when you're

349
00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:29,359
given the Kaikion, which is a hallucinogenic drink, and then

350
00:20:29,359 --> 00:20:34,720
you sort of go through the demeter persephone underworld resurrection

351
00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:36,640
sort of rituals. And I think there's even like a

352
00:20:36,680 --> 00:20:40,319
crazy dance involved, just wanted to know if you if

353
00:20:40,359 --> 00:20:42,359
you came across anything like that, or what do you

354
00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:43,240
think of the kaikion.

355
00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:47,599
Speaker 2: No, I actually think that there is some legitimacy to

356
00:20:47,680 --> 00:20:51,440
the kekion theory. And so what you're referring to, the

357
00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:54,319
book that founded this is called The Road to eleusis

358
00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:58,319
unveiling the secret of the mysteries, and so our Gordon Wawson,

359
00:20:58,319 --> 00:21:00,960
who will probably come up, he's famous for actually re

360
00:21:02,039 --> 00:21:04,720
if you want to say, rediscovering, but at least popularizing

361
00:21:04,720 --> 00:21:09,000
psilocybin mushrooms. In nineteen fifty seven he wrote an article

362
00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:12,759
in Life magazine. He did this shamanistic retreat with Maria

363
00:21:12,799 --> 00:21:15,640
Sabina and he wrote about it. And this was kind

364
00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:17,759
of the first time, at least in the modern period

365
00:21:17,759 --> 00:21:22,240
in the West where there's explicit discussion about these psychedelic mushrooms.

366
00:21:22,480 --> 00:21:25,279
He sends those mushrooms then to Albert Hoffman, who is

367
00:21:25,319 --> 00:21:28,720
the synthesizer of LSD in nineteen thirty eight, has his

368
00:21:28,839 --> 00:21:32,759
famous bicycle day April was it nineteenth? Nineteen forty three,

369
00:21:32,799 --> 00:21:35,480
where he accidentally consumes it and then rides his bicycle home.

370
00:21:36,599 --> 00:21:39,519
And then Karl A. P Ruck, who's a classicist who

371
00:21:39,640 --> 00:21:43,240
all of his work is trying to validate even Christianity.

372
00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:46,119
His thing is trying to validate the legitimacy of psychedelic

373
00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:48,519
use in all this ancient period. He uses his skills

374
00:21:48,839 --> 00:21:51,920
as a classics collar to do so. So this book

375
00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:56,480
argues that based on pottery that they found that the

376
00:21:56,559 --> 00:22:00,680
kikkion is some type of ergot fungus. So ergot is

377
00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:04,279
a fungus that grows on barley and ryegrain, and it's

378
00:22:04,359 --> 00:22:08,359
common in again across Greece and where the Alasinian mysteries

379
00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:11,240
took place. And as you said, it's that's where they

380
00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:14,839
talk about persephones. Quest it's about persephones, death and rebirth,

381
00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:18,799
going to Haitiites and coming back. It's believed that anybody

382
00:22:18,839 --> 00:22:22,000
who is a who's who in the ancient period participated

383
00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:24,359
in these mysteries and they were taken into some type

384
00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:28,079
of enclosed almost like a theater space yah they would

385
00:22:28,119 --> 00:22:31,519
consume the beverage, they would be revealed the mysteries, and

386
00:22:31,559 --> 00:22:34,359
then hours later they would leave and then they would

387
00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:37,799
be initiated into this ancient mystery. I actually think that

388
00:22:37,839 --> 00:22:43,920
there's something legitimate about about that. And ergot in ergamine,

389
00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:46,319
which is found in some of those potteries is a

390
00:22:46,359 --> 00:22:50,759
precursor to LSD. So Albert Hoffman, who synthesizes the psilocybin

391
00:22:50,839 --> 00:22:53,680
mushrooms from Maria sabina by way of our Gordon Wawson

392
00:22:54,079 --> 00:23:00,680
and discovered LSD about twenty over twenty years previously, they

393
00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:04,119
start synthesizing various forms of ergamine and come to the

394
00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:07,400
conclusion that in a lab at least they could construct

395
00:23:07,559 --> 00:23:12,000
an LSD like beverage through this. And so it's believed

396
00:23:12,039 --> 00:23:14,839
that they don't know the exact process, but somehow they

397
00:23:14,839 --> 00:23:18,279
would allow this ergot and they would mix it with

398
00:23:18,319 --> 00:23:21,599
probably wine, and then some measure that we don't exactly know,

399
00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:23,720
they're able to take out the toxins because there's actually

400
00:23:23,799 --> 00:23:26,119
quite a few toxins in the fungus, and then you

401
00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:30,319
could consume this beverage and get, you know, initiate inebriated

402
00:23:30,319 --> 00:23:32,799
through this and get initiated into the mystery. So I

403
00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:36,519
actually think that there's something there. Now I don't support

404
00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:39,640
some of the larger conclusions that these scholars have made,

405
00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:43,720
but I think it's the best explanation for what was

406
00:23:43,799 --> 00:23:48,680
going on in eleusis because it was some type of beverage,

407
00:23:49,079 --> 00:23:51,240
and I think that at least through some of the

408
00:23:51,319 --> 00:23:54,759
chemistry that they've done, that's that's probably most likely of

409
00:23:54,839 --> 00:23:55,920
what they actually well.

410
00:23:55,759 --> 00:23:58,559
Speaker 1: Probably you're tripping balls. They take you sort of underneath

411
00:23:58,559 --> 00:24:01,400
the temple or something, and then it's that the book

412
00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:03,880
describes it as like then they bring you out. The

413
00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:05,799
climax of the ritual is sort of like a light

414
00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:08,920
comes on and then you see like the goddess you

415
00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:13,880
see isis or something, Yeah, or persephone. But it's funny

416
00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:15,359
you say that, because yeah, I just looked in the

417
00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:21,160
footnote of disguised paper and first footnote is R. Gordon

418
00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:24,200
Wasson Albert Hoffman, the very book that you cited at

419
00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:27,039
the bottom is right, So yeah, you're absolutely right that

420
00:24:27,039 --> 00:24:30,440
that's where they're pulling from. Did you a little side

421
00:24:30,519 --> 00:24:34,160
note did you know or did you come across anything

422
00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:37,000
pointing out that according to John Marx and his book

423
00:24:37,039 --> 00:24:39,960
on the history of mk Ultra, that it was Gordon

424
00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:43,519
Wasson was funded by the Macy Foundation, and then that

425
00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:48,599
was kind of a original sort of m k ultraca project.

426
00:24:49,799 --> 00:24:53,160
Speaker 2: There are some I've looked into the R. Gordon Watson connection.

427
00:24:53,279 --> 00:24:58,079
He was clearly funded by some of the major moguls

428
00:24:58,119 --> 00:25:02,279
at the time, and of course he was working for JP. Yeah,

429
00:25:02,319 --> 00:25:05,759
which makes it very again, very strange that this high

430
00:25:05,839 --> 00:25:11,240
level banker working for JP Morgan just so got contacted

431
00:25:11,279 --> 00:25:13,519
and told to go to this place and meet this

432
00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:17,400
shamanis in Mexico and then him and his wife Valentina

433
00:25:18,079 --> 00:25:20,880
go and participate and then kind of make it now

434
00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:22,960
known to the first time in the Western world about

435
00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:29,480
these ancient psychedelic mysteries through through shamanic practices. I do

436
00:25:29,519 --> 00:25:33,079
think that there's something something behind the funding, and they

437
00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:35,440
traveled all over the world. I mean, his big thing

438
00:25:35,519 --> 00:25:38,279
was trying to solve the Soma mystery, which is one

439
00:25:38,319 --> 00:25:40,720
of the gods in the rig Veda, and Soma is

440
00:25:40,799 --> 00:25:43,599
mentioned over a hundred times. It is a god that

441
00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:47,960
you consume. It strengthens you, it illuminates you, it gives

442
00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:51,279
you courage. Again potentially a connection even back with the

443
00:25:51,279 --> 00:25:55,759
berserkers in Europe who took mushrooms because they felt like

444
00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:58,799
they were strengthened, they had courage and they could go

445
00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:04,119
fight in battle. But our Gordon Wawson, along with Timothy Leary,

446
00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:06,200
I mean Timothy Leary also made a comment that he

447
00:26:06,319 --> 00:26:08,240
was you know, you got to pick teams like the

448
00:26:08,319 --> 00:26:11,039
Yankees or the or the Dodgers, and he chose the

449
00:26:11,079 --> 00:26:16,039
CIA and so so there is some real interesting, potentially

450
00:26:16,039 --> 00:26:20,680
nefarious connections with an mk ultra. By the way, this

451
00:26:20,759 --> 00:26:23,039
is the interesting thing to your point. His article, our

452
00:26:23,079 --> 00:26:26,799
Gordon Wawson's article about Maria Sabinez in nineteen fifty seven,

453
00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:29,359
and we know that the mk ultra project began in

454
00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:33,680
nineteen fifty six. So hmm, interesting little timeline there that

455
00:26:34,039 --> 00:26:37,079
mk Ultra begins a year before our Gordon Wawson goes

456
00:26:37,079 --> 00:26:41,079
to Mexico and makes all this stuff famous.

457
00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:46,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. Do we know if there are any other

458
00:26:48,279 --> 00:26:50,440
if we go further back, is there any evidence of

459
00:26:50,519 --> 00:26:53,440
you know, if we go back to like Babylon or Egypt,

460
00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:56,839
is there evidence in those ancient cultures of something like

461
00:26:57,880 --> 00:26:59,839
a consciousness altering initiation?

462
00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:07,720
Speaker 2: Certainly their scholarship arguing for that. There's different different plants,

463
00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:16,279
you know, cannabis, hayoma, progomenharmla iminio, mascaria, psilocybin, mushrooms, There's

464
00:27:16,279 --> 00:27:19,039
all these different plants that people have speculated. I've seen

465
00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:22,519
multiple scholars argue that ancient Egypt was participating in some

466
00:27:22,559 --> 00:27:27,599
of these inebriating rituals. I would assume Babylon is noted.

467
00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:33,640
They're occult and magical orientation and ritualistic framework for those practices.

468
00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:38,720
I would absolutely imagine they were the earliest historical evidence

469
00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:42,160
that we have really comes out of the Indian subcontinent,

470
00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:44,319
as I said, through the rig Veda, and this whole

471
00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:48,480
Soma thing, and so soma which in Persian is known

472
00:27:48,519 --> 00:27:54,079
as hayoma, which hayome is also another inebriating substance. After

473
00:27:54,359 --> 00:28:00,200
you know, hundreds of years pass by and Soma it

474
00:28:00,279 --> 00:28:04,119
develops and in my estimation, my argument is it then

475
00:28:04,319 --> 00:28:08,480
is incorporated into these Mithraic rights. And so Mithra is

476
00:28:08,519 --> 00:28:10,759
not a huge he's in the rig Veda, but he's

477
00:28:10,759 --> 00:28:12,759
not a huge figure. And we really don't get these

478
00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:20,480
devotional cults until later. But Haoma wine drinking, like these

479
00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:23,480
these inebriating wine beverages, we know that that was being

480
00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:27,319
taken place during these Mythraic rituals. I've looked at evidence

481
00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:32,240
from some scholars arguing that also orgiastic activity, which is

482
00:28:32,279 --> 00:28:37,759
typically associated with like collective groups anebriating experiences, they participate

483
00:28:37,839 --> 00:28:40,079
and this was true for the Manicheans. So we have

484
00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:42,759
descriptions from China that the Manicheans went all the way

485
00:28:42,799 --> 00:28:47,599
to China and they said they're constantly consuming mushrooms, they're debatrous,

486
00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:51,920
filthy people, they don't shower enough, and that they participate

487
00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:55,799
in these weird sexual practices. This is according to Chinese sources.

488
00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:58,519
Speaker 1: So there was Chinese. There was hippies back then.

489
00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:01,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, the Chinese where yeah, they're like these Manichaeans are.

490
00:29:01,599 --> 00:29:05,799
Speaker 1: Filthy, Manichey and Hippi trying to get the ancient Chinese

491
00:29:05,839 --> 00:29:07,720
to go to Grateful Dead concerts.

492
00:29:07,839 --> 00:29:11,960
Speaker 2: Pretty much pretty much. And so there's an article that

493
00:29:12,039 --> 00:29:14,720
I found, and this is the is the only scholar

494
00:29:14,759 --> 00:29:17,960
that I've seen make this connection. His name's Robert Bedrosian.

495
00:29:18,359 --> 00:29:22,200
He's an Armenian scholar, and he actually has a paper

496
00:29:23,839 --> 00:29:28,160
where he argues that Armenia is the key to solving

497
00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:31,880
the Soma mystery. And I have not seen anybody but him,

498
00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:34,240
and I haven't even seen other scholars pick up this article.

499
00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:39,559
But he argues that Armenia, being in that Caucus region

500
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:44,319
before it converted to Christianity, was actually the mountains in

501
00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:47,440
Armenia were a fertile place for growing these amineomuscarita, these

502
00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:50,400
red and white mushrooms that could be used ritualistically. He

503
00:29:50,559 --> 00:29:54,519
claims that the mithraic rituals and some of the ancient mythology,

504
00:29:54,599 --> 00:29:58,519
the pre Christian pagan mythology of Armenia was deeply embedded

505
00:29:58,559 --> 00:30:02,799
within these psychedelic cults, these mythic these mythraic cults and rituals,

506
00:30:03,079 --> 00:30:05,440
and he claims he's got evidence, and he writes about

507
00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:09,319
this in his article that the Persian elite, the Zoroastrians,

508
00:30:09,359 --> 00:30:13,000
were actually purchasing massive amounts of these mushrooms from Armenia

509
00:30:13,079 --> 00:30:17,519
to have for these ritualistic purposes, and that you know,

510
00:30:17,599 --> 00:30:21,319
some of the elites of the Zoroastrian Persian society would

511
00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:24,680
could consume these in a ritualistic manner every year, and

512
00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:27,279
that they were purchasing these from Armenia. And then he

513
00:30:27,319 --> 00:30:30,960
claims in his article that he's found the continuation of

514
00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:33,799
the preservation of these mushrooms all the way up to

515
00:30:33,799 --> 00:30:36,359
towards the end of the twentieth century in Armenia. We

516
00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:39,359
already just mentioned that Armenia is an interesting place because

517
00:30:39,799 --> 00:30:43,240
that becomes a hotbed for some of these gnostic heresies

518
00:30:43,319 --> 00:30:46,359
during the Byzantine period because the Buzinest teams weren't having it,

519
00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:49,119
so you either had a converter you're getting kicked out.

520
00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:50,640
And a lot of them went there. And it's that

521
00:30:50,759 --> 00:30:53,759
cultural malu that then goes and infuses it within the

522
00:30:53,799 --> 00:30:58,119
Bogomils in Bulgaria. So I think there's actually something really

523
00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:01,720
there that Armenia is the sort of historical key that

524
00:31:01,839 --> 00:31:04,200
unlocks the Soma mystery that so many people have been

525
00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:07,640
trying to say what it is. Terence McKinnon believed it

526
00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:11,359
was like the psilocybin mushrooms. Our Gordon Watson argued that

527
00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:15,680
it was the aminy to mascaria mushroom. Others have argued

528
00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:20,079
it's actually cannabis. Others argue it's pugamen harmla or hayoma.

529
00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:23,599
So we really don't know what it is. But according

530
00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:28,319
to Robert Bedrosian, he he claims that it is psilocybin

531
00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:31,880
eminy myscari mushrooms and that when the Mithraic cult was

532
00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:35,519
at its height in Armenia, that this infused their culture

533
00:31:35,559 --> 00:31:37,799
and that they were actually providing these mushrooms and these

534
00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:39,559
rituals for the Persian elite.

535
00:31:43,599 --> 00:31:45,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, one thing, just a little bit of a shift

536
00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:48,640
of focus I noticed as I read through this text

537
00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:53,160
from the Cambridge Companion on all the esotery stuff, whether

538
00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:57,920
it's the ancient inebriating ritual cults, or whether it's the Gnostics,

539
00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:02,559
or whether it's even Greek philosophy at times. And then

540
00:32:02,599 --> 00:32:05,279
if you fast forward all the way up to modern

541
00:32:05,759 --> 00:32:08,160
resicrution mysteries, or if you go all the way up

542
00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:13,359
into Gerjeff and Blovatsky, there was a commonality in this

543
00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:17,160
book that I didn't expect, which was that the tendency

544
00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:19,680
in Western Hermeticism, even the Middle Ages, with some of

545
00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:24,599
the weirdos like Jacob Boem and Gertrude the Great, some

546
00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:28,400
of these so called mystics in the Historyonic, crazy Roman

547
00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:33,319
Catholic sphere, they end up in the same revelation, which

548
00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:37,640
is that the meaning and the answer of all the

549
00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:40,480
mysteries is you are your own God.

550
00:32:40,559 --> 00:32:40,759
Speaker 2: Bro.

551
00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:44,400
Speaker 1: And I'm not joking. That's like common throughout this book.

552
00:32:44,440 --> 00:32:46,480
It wasn't something I don't think that the author's planned.

553
00:32:46,519 --> 00:32:50,240
I just think that as they worked through these different traditions,

554
00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:55,160
there's this underlying tendency to basically come to the revelation

555
00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:58,519
that you're your own God. You determine your own reality.

556
00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:01,680
Even when we get into krawl, Young Kraljung just basically

557
00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:06,720
thinks as a gnostic sort of platonic figure, projecting your

558
00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:10,960
subconscious is projecting your external reality. You're creating your own reality.

559
00:33:11,559 --> 00:33:14,400
Is that a feature that you see as well? Did

560
00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:16,759
you come across this kind of stuff and does that

561
00:33:16,799 --> 00:33:20,000
maybe lead us into the transhumanist side of things?

562
00:33:21,119 --> 00:33:23,359
Speaker 2: I would certainly say what you picked up on that

563
00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:27,640
thread is absolutely the case. After the ancient period, I

564
00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:29,680
would argue, at least from my reading of some of

565
00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:33,160
the Ancients, I mean even some of these gnostic groups,

566
00:33:34,039 --> 00:33:39,160
they were on a path of deification. From their perspective,

567
00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:42,200
I think they would be submissive to say that they're

568
00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:47,319
not God or equate themselves in nature to God. But

569
00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:50,119
especially after the Renaissance, so much of everything that you

570
00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:54,440
mentioned once we get Renaissance humanism and the Zohar, the

571
00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:57,160
capitalistic text of Judaism that gets written in the thirteenth

572
00:33:57,160 --> 00:34:00,960
century in Spain, and that's during the me A Caliphate

573
00:34:01,079 --> 00:34:07,079
where they allowed the Jewish mystics, the Cabalistic mystics, the Sufis,

574
00:34:07,119 --> 00:34:10,639
and then these Christian mystics to actually form what I

575
00:34:10,639 --> 00:34:13,000
would argue becomes the Zohar, and that's where you get

576
00:34:13,039 --> 00:34:18,360
Giovanni Piccadella Marendola and what they call Christian Kabbalah, and

577
00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:24,119
it sort of re reinterprets man and his relationship to God,

578
00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:28,119
and that then becomes I would say, the foundation for

579
00:34:28,559 --> 00:34:34,480
the Rosicrucians vice shop in the Illuminati, eventually the speculative

580
00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:40,360
freemasonry that emerges. So the worship of oneself, I think,

581
00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:43,000
is tied with this sort of general tendency as we

582
00:34:43,039 --> 00:34:46,719
move closer to modernity and especially post the Enlightenment. Yeah,

583
00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:51,480
that's exactly. Every single psychedelic teacher or author that I've

584
00:34:51,519 --> 00:34:56,039
read believes that you're on a process to realize of

585
00:34:56,079 --> 00:35:00,920
your unity with collective consciousness or collective divinity, something abstract

586
00:35:01,039 --> 00:35:04,199
like that. That's the case with everyone that I've come across.

587
00:35:04,519 --> 00:35:06,639
So I would say that's sort of this residue of

588
00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:11,880
Renaissance humanism mixing, mixing with the Hermeticism and the Cabbalism

589
00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:17,760
and all these occult theories that emerge. So you got Paracelsus,

590
00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:20,519
you know, he was this very famous alchemist. He's the

591
00:35:20,639 --> 00:35:24,559
inventor of Laudanum, and so getting high on opium was

592
00:35:24,599 --> 00:35:27,840
part of his part of his magical process. We know

593
00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:30,719
Henry Cornelius Agrippa, like a lot of these major magicians.

594
00:35:30,719 --> 00:35:33,039
Speaker 1: I've got up empress also that are on the shelf.

595
00:35:33,079 --> 00:35:36,400
I was gonna get those out. But what would you say,

596
00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:43,039
sort of the the the underlying feature of the Renaissance

597
00:35:43,199 --> 00:35:47,199
era magicians in Italy and other places in Europe, and

598
00:35:47,199 --> 00:35:51,440
then the rise of Rosicritianism is this focus inward towards

599
00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:53,239
a man himself. Is that what you're saying.

600
00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:57,199
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's tied with a millinery and expectation. I

601
00:35:57,239 --> 00:36:03,400
think Yakima Fiore's dispensational tripartite understanding of history. I mean

602
00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:07,159
that's going to connect with actually my research on transhumanism.

603
00:36:07,679 --> 00:36:13,239
But that millenarian ethos that somehow were like moving towards

604
00:36:13,239 --> 00:36:15,960
collective utopia. I mean, that's what the ro Secrutions were.

605
00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:20,519
And you can't fully understand that Malu without understanding the

606
00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:24,280
impact of the Protestant Reformation and that these Protestants in

607
00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:27,840
the North were seeking some sort of legitimacy against the

608
00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:29,920
Catholic Church. And that's why I always say the sixteenth

609
00:36:29,960 --> 00:36:32,239
century is like one of the most magical centuries in

610
00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:36,280
European history. And it's during this period where you get

611
00:36:36,280 --> 00:36:42,719
these rosicrution confessios and the Vishop and the Illuminati, John

612
00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:46,400
d all these different figures, Paracelsus, Grippa, all these different

613
00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:50,119
people are during the sixteenth century, and so Protestantism when

614
00:36:50,159 --> 00:36:53,360
you look at somebody like Frederick the elector Palatine, he

615
00:36:53,559 --> 00:36:58,400
was trying to incorporate cabalistic hermeticism and the re secrution

616
00:36:58,559 --> 00:37:01,400
ethos with a form of Protestantism. I mean, this is

617
00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:08,280
what is ended at the first Battle of the Thirty

618
00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:12,119
Years War when he's defeated at the Battle of White Mountain.

619
00:37:13,159 --> 00:37:19,320
So that whole Ethos was tied with like this Protestant Christianity,

620
00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:23,599
which is less sacramental, combining with like the sacramentality of

621
00:37:23,719 --> 00:37:27,760
ritualistic magic. We're going to create this brotherhood, this utopian king.

622
00:37:27,840 --> 00:37:34,400
Speaker 1: Well, a lot of the early first generation Rosicrucians were Lutherans,

623
00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:36,719
and they were in the spheres of the Lutheran Church.

624
00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:40,480
I think Johann Andre who is believed to be one

625
00:37:40,519 --> 00:37:43,800
of the compilers of the you know, Rosicrucian Manifesto or

626
00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:47,639
whatever was a famous Lutheran. Other famous Lutherans were also

627
00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:51,360
in that sphere. Sometimes people sort of make the assumption

628
00:37:51,559 --> 00:37:55,039
that Luther's Cross, you know, the famous Luther Rose, just

629
00:37:55,079 --> 00:37:58,159
happens to also be a Rosicritian, simple right. I don't

630
00:37:58,159 --> 00:38:00,679
know that Luther himself was into Rosism. I think you

631
00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:03,400
predated that a little bit. However, there is evidence that

632
00:38:03,559 --> 00:38:06,880
Luther was influenced by the Theologia Germanica, which is another

633
00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:09,800
one of these mystical texts that tends to focus on

634
00:38:09,880 --> 00:38:14,079
sort of what you get in some of these medieval Latin,

635
00:38:14,280 --> 00:38:18,239
Roman Catholic mystical texts is basically, the union with God

636
00:38:18,920 --> 00:38:22,519
is so intense, and it's almost because of absolute divine

637
00:38:22,519 --> 00:38:26,199
simplicity and other kind of weird esoteric ideas well. If

638
00:38:26,239 --> 00:38:28,599
I become one with God truly, then I am God.

639
00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:30,920
And so in other words, because there's no essence interdistinction,

640
00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:34,840
there's an uncreated grace. They don't maintain the creator creature distinction.

641
00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:39,239
Absolute divine simplicity if you don't believe in creative grace,

642
00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:42,400
requires that you become the essence of God. So you

643
00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:45,639
become God. And you actually see that in the chapter

644
00:38:45,719 --> 00:38:48,920
in this text, for example, on Jacob Boheme and on

645
00:38:50,679 --> 00:38:53,599
Gertrude Bell, both of whom tended to say that basically,

646
00:38:53,639 --> 00:38:56,079
in the mystical Union, you actually become God. So they're

647
00:38:56,519 --> 00:38:59,960
they're throwing out sort of you know, needed theological nuances

648
00:39:00,079 --> 00:39:02,679
here and basically just sort of falling into a kind

649
00:39:02,719 --> 00:39:05,599
of apotheosis, which I know you've talked a lot about

650
00:39:05,639 --> 00:39:09,079
on your channel and probably in your thesis, where man

651
00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:12,199
just becomes his own God, not by grace but by

652
00:39:12,239 --> 00:39:16,119
his own will, knowledge, gnosis, tech, etc. All these are

653
00:39:16,119 --> 00:39:19,440
different pathways to become your own God. One book, I

654
00:39:19,440 --> 00:39:21,880
I'm curious if you've got a chance to look at

655
00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:24,559
or ever heard about what's Michael Hoffman has a book

656
00:39:24,559 --> 00:39:26,920
called a Cult Renaissance Church of Rome. Have you heard

657
00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:27,119
of that?

658
00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:28,079
Speaker 2: I have not.

659
00:39:29,159 --> 00:39:31,000
Speaker 1: It's really good. It's right up your alley. I mean,

660
00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:33,679
even though Hoffman ended up, I think he's still a

661
00:39:33,719 --> 00:39:36,679
trad cat or something. But as Orthodox we would actually

662
00:39:36,679 --> 00:39:39,920
pretty much agree with his critique of the Renaissance era

663
00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:43,840
papacy because he's basically just arguing that as a trad cat,

664
00:39:43,880 --> 00:39:45,920
he's trying to make sense of Rome and what happened,

665
00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:47,760
and he basically ends up reading all the way back

666
00:39:47,800 --> 00:39:51,599
into the Renaissance papacy and saying here's where things take

667
00:39:51,639 --> 00:39:55,119
a noticeable change. Even though Hoffmann doesn't know a whole

668
00:39:55,119 --> 00:39:57,800
lot about the first thousand years of Christianity, he's accurate,

669
00:39:57,840 --> 00:40:03,000
I think in pinpointing the turn towards the esoteric in

670
00:40:03,159 --> 00:40:07,519
the Medici Renaissance era papacy, which is definitely what happened,

671
00:40:08,639 --> 00:40:10,760
and hence why they promoted and love they love the

672
00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:14,119
idea of magic, Christian cabalah, etcetera. That was all super

673
00:40:14,159 --> 00:40:18,079
popular at that time, and I think that's part of

674
00:40:18,119 --> 00:40:23,760
the influence and trek of Western civilization, at least Europe

675
00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:26,760
in the second millennium, the papal Europe.

676
00:40:27,559 --> 00:40:30,760
Speaker 2: Right, And to your point about this the absolute divine

677
00:40:30,760 --> 00:40:36,679
simplicity being a type of presuppositional framework for this form

678
00:40:36,719 --> 00:40:40,559
of mysticism. It, I mean, all of this magical stuff

679
00:40:40,599 --> 00:40:44,280
is tied with neoplatonism, and so this privileging of monism

680
00:40:44,440 --> 00:40:47,960
is essential. And then once you incorporate inebriating substances, now

681
00:40:48,039 --> 00:40:51,559
people can go from a rational articulation of neo platonic

682
00:40:51,639 --> 00:40:56,159
values and monism to in a phenomenological experiential union with

683
00:40:56,360 --> 00:40:58,920
like divinity or something. And I think though both those

684
00:40:58,960 --> 00:41:02,000
together are a huge catalyst. I mean, Terrence McKinnon is

685
00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:06,480
famous for saying, you know, psychedelics dissolved boundaries. Yeah, I

686
00:41:06,679 --> 00:41:09,239
would agree with him. That's exactly what they do. That's

687
00:41:09,239 --> 00:41:11,719
not necessarily a great thing for him. This is how

688
00:41:11,719 --> 00:41:17,280
we dissolve the the you know, the deleterious framework of history,

689
00:41:17,320 --> 00:41:20,440
so we can return back to the archaic goddess. Uh

690
00:41:21,079 --> 00:41:24,320
and I we can talk about the archaic revival. I

691
00:41:24,320 --> 00:41:28,159
think actually, given the trends in culture with the LGBTQ

692
00:41:28,599 --> 00:41:30,840
and and the whole Skittles community and what they're doing,

693
00:41:31,320 --> 00:41:33,320
it kind of does feel like we're returning back to

694
00:41:33,360 --> 00:41:37,320
a pre Christian period and that you know, Marshall mccluban's

695
00:41:37,360 --> 00:41:40,760
theories about the the you know, the global village and

696
00:41:40,800 --> 00:41:43,719
how digital technology was going to actually take us from

697
00:41:43,960 --> 00:41:47,719
the literate man back to a primitive style culture. It's like, Wow,

698
00:41:47,960 --> 00:41:49,960
I think there's some validity there because it feels like

699
00:41:50,000 --> 00:41:52,559
that's where we're going, is that people are becoming less literate,

700
00:41:52,840 --> 00:41:56,159
more impulsive, and since becoming more iconic.

701
00:41:55,920 --> 00:41:58,320
Speaker 1: To savages people on the savages.

702
00:42:00,039 --> 00:42:02,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I think all those things are working together.

703
00:42:03,039 --> 00:42:06,239
Speaker 1: So here's a question. I have something I've wondered about.

704
00:42:06,639 --> 00:42:09,559
I had several brad classes where we talked about Elizabethan

705
00:42:10,079 --> 00:42:14,599
Renaissance era alchemy. We focus on you know, John Don,

706
00:42:14,679 --> 00:42:18,559
Ben Johnson, Edmund Spencer, a lot of these you know,

707
00:42:19,159 --> 00:42:22,960
Shakespearean era writers and poets, and a lot of them

708
00:42:23,159 --> 00:42:25,320
were obsessed with Esotero's and a lot of people don't

709
00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:28,440
know that. But what I've never really heard about. We

710
00:42:28,480 --> 00:42:32,679
know about this possibility of maybe something going on in

711
00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:36,320
terms of the Renaissance Middle Ages era with Templars and

712
00:42:36,840 --> 00:42:40,400
Pico della Mirandola and these characters, and maybe they experienced

713
00:42:40,400 --> 00:42:42,440
something to do with shrooms and drugs. Is there any

714
00:42:42,480 --> 00:42:46,440
evidence after this period? We don't hear about drugs or

715
00:42:46,480 --> 00:42:52,440
substances for so many centuries until more recently. So I'm

716
00:42:52,480 --> 00:42:55,360
just curious, like, do we have evidence of like experimentation

717
00:42:55,599 --> 00:42:58,559
in British Empire. I mean, we know about opium being

718
00:42:58,719 --> 00:43:01,960
you know, used as war against you know, China, and

719
00:43:01,960 --> 00:43:06,639
British Empire uses opium war to syops and whatnot. What

720
00:43:06,760 --> 00:43:11,159
about are any of these is Elzabethan poets experimenting? You know?

721
00:43:12,280 --> 00:43:18,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, so what during the Elizabethian era, Opium was certainly

722
00:43:18,920 --> 00:43:22,800
one that was going around and potentially cannabis and hashish.

723
00:43:22,920 --> 00:43:26,199
We know for a fact, multiple scholars have documented that

724
00:43:26,239 --> 00:43:30,840
hashish used for quote unquote mystical purposes was already present

725
00:43:30,880 --> 00:43:33,199
in Spain by the thirteenth century, by the time the

726
00:43:33,280 --> 00:43:37,119
Zohar was written, and that all these practices, all these

727
00:43:37,159 --> 00:43:42,480
practices actually moved from Syria, Egypt, across northern Africa and

728
00:43:42,519 --> 00:43:45,320
then entered into Spain. So we know for a fact

729
00:43:45,360 --> 00:43:50,639
that before the re conquista of Spain people were using

730
00:43:50,800 --> 00:43:56,039
hashish and ritualistic practices due to Islamic Sufis. Actually either

731
00:43:56,519 --> 00:43:56,800
is this.

732
00:43:56,800 --> 00:43:59,800
Speaker 1: From the Hashimites, the Hashashen the assassins.

733
00:44:00,079 --> 00:44:04,440
Speaker 2: It's tied with that, and obviously it's people question whether

734
00:44:04,480 --> 00:44:07,800
the Nazari Ismaili's were they really high on hashish when

735
00:44:07,800 --> 00:44:13,280
they committed these assassinations. It's a debated topic. But what

736
00:44:13,480 --> 00:44:16,800
is a fact is that cultural that the culture Malu

737
00:44:17,000 --> 00:44:21,159
that the Hashashins come from were actually using these practices,

738
00:44:21,199 --> 00:44:23,559
and that you can literally trace the Sufi use of

739
00:44:23,639 --> 00:44:27,239
hashish and then certain communities actually saying okay, no more

740
00:44:27,239 --> 00:44:29,320
of that, and then it just continues to move eventually

741
00:44:29,320 --> 00:44:32,920
across northern Africa, where in Morocco we have cases in

742
00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:36,119
the twelfth century where we people go and are saying, yeah,

743
00:44:36,199 --> 00:44:38,920
the Muslims are literally consuming hashish before they enter in

744
00:44:38,960 --> 00:44:42,840
the mosque and getting high and then going to the

745
00:44:42,880 --> 00:44:46,639
mosque for various ceremonies. When the rika Quista happens, they

746
00:44:46,639 --> 00:44:50,159
try to stamp all this hashishi use out, but be

747
00:44:50,239 --> 00:44:53,320
it with geodonno Bruno, for example, it speculated that he

748
00:44:53,400 --> 00:44:55,480
was actually high on hashish when he came up with

749
00:44:55,559 --> 00:44:58,360
his the belief that all the stars were actually sons.

750
00:45:00,119 --> 00:45:05,159
And so by the time that in France in particular

751
00:45:05,320 --> 00:45:09,239
was very infatuated with the Oriental and so by the

752
00:45:09,239 --> 00:45:11,599
time the English, I forget the englishman's name that wrote

753
00:45:11,960 --> 00:45:14,960
One thousand and one Nights, but by the time that

754
00:45:15,119 --> 00:45:18,920
was written, and especially into the Victorian era, people were

755
00:45:18,960 --> 00:45:22,880
absolutely experimenting with cannabis and hishish and it was very popular,

756
00:45:23,239 --> 00:45:27,519
specifically in France, and that's where you get people, you know,

757
00:45:27,639 --> 00:45:30,119
poets and stuff in the English period going down to Paris.

758
00:45:30,159 --> 00:45:34,639
Speaker 1: I like some of the Irish and you know, famous

759
00:45:34,679 --> 00:45:38,519
British poets were you know taken opium and stuff like that.

760
00:45:38,679 --> 00:45:40,280
But that was the only thing I really ever.

761
00:45:40,199 --> 00:45:43,840
Speaker 2: Heard, and it came from this belief that from again,

762
00:45:44,079 --> 00:45:46,679
the book the One thousand and one Nights was actually

763
00:45:46,800 --> 00:45:51,199
incredibly influential in Europe for the normalization and consumption of

764
00:45:51,280 --> 00:45:54,079
Haiesh in the belief that it actually elevated you to

765
00:45:54,119 --> 00:45:59,159
these ancient spiritual beliefs and truth to some sort. And

766
00:45:59,199 --> 00:46:03,039
that's what people, famous poets were actually traveling to France

767
00:46:03,119 --> 00:46:07,440
during that period to engage in these pract these practices

768
00:46:07,480 --> 00:46:10,519
believing that the Oriental was able to preserve something that

769
00:46:10,599 --> 00:46:13,119
Christianity tried to stomp out. Again, we just talked about

770
00:46:13,119 --> 00:46:14,960
the Rican Quista, and they were not in favor of

771
00:46:15,000 --> 00:46:19,119
these practices. So by the time just before the Victorian era,

772
00:46:19,480 --> 00:46:22,480
they were like, oh, well, now we have these practices back,

773
00:46:22,800 --> 00:46:25,400
just like the Orientals had, and now we're not tainted

774
00:46:25,440 --> 00:46:27,800
by you know, the Catholic Church can't control everything we

775
00:46:27,880 --> 00:46:31,280
do anymore. And so then you start getting into the

776
00:46:31,320 --> 00:46:37,320
eighteen hundreds and the experimentation with nitrous oxide and anesthetics

777
00:46:37,760 --> 00:46:40,840
becomes a huge thing for people to engage for mystical

778
00:46:40,880 --> 00:46:44,039
spiritual purposes. I mean, this is you know, by the

779
00:46:44,079 --> 00:46:47,360
time of William James. So this is late eighteen hundreds,

780
00:46:47,400 --> 00:46:50,559
early nineteen hundreds William James. That's his first experiment. So

781
00:46:51,960 --> 00:46:55,480
the whole book on his belief on definition of religion,

782
00:46:56,119 --> 00:46:59,079
it has to do with his nitrous oxide experiences and

783
00:46:59,239 --> 00:47:04,480
arguing that the getting inebriated actually again for them, allows

784
00:47:04,519 --> 00:47:06,960
you to bypass the rational mind so that you can

785
00:47:07,000 --> 00:47:11,280
then engage or interact with the sort of spiritual I

786
00:47:11,280 --> 00:47:15,519
guess you could say super rational or irrational entities. So

787
00:47:16,199 --> 00:47:19,519
you can literally trace even though our Gordon Wawson in

788
00:47:19,559 --> 00:47:23,679
nineteen fifty seven really makes psilocybin mushrooms come onto the

789
00:47:23,760 --> 00:47:28,239
stage for the first time, all before that Western Europe

790
00:47:28,280 --> 00:47:34,599
was engaging in opium use, laudanum, drinking various form of anesthetics,

791
00:47:34,679 --> 00:47:39,840
nitrous oxide and then hashish. So those things were absolutely

792
00:47:39,880 --> 00:47:44,039
being used from the Renaissance forward. You can find evidence

793
00:47:44,079 --> 00:47:45,400
of that throughout Western Europe.

794
00:47:46,880 --> 00:47:50,760
Speaker 1: And of course, you know, we know that Afghanistan is

795
00:47:50,880 --> 00:47:56,840
a region cashmere region, very important going back to ancient

796
00:47:56,880 --> 00:48:00,599
times for poppies for opium, so that and that's an

797
00:48:00,599 --> 00:48:03,519
ancient thing too, And there's a whole there's a whole

798
00:48:03,519 --> 00:48:05,920
book on this called a visible Empire. That's really good

799
00:48:05,960 --> 00:48:08,920
from Golden Fitztrail, where you know they kind of theorized

800
00:48:08,960 --> 00:48:14,079
that for a long time, empires and kingdoms have sought

801
00:48:14,119 --> 00:48:16,320
to really try to control that region, not just because

802
00:48:16,360 --> 00:48:19,840
it's the gateway to Eurasia, but also because of this

803
00:48:20,039 --> 00:48:23,880
you know magical poppy that grows there that you know

804
00:48:24,000 --> 00:48:26,800
can be used for these for these rituals and whatnot.

805
00:48:28,639 --> 00:48:30,800
We got we're gonna super push ahead.

806
00:48:30,800 --> 00:48:33,320
Speaker 2: Push comes from from that Central Asian area where all

807
00:48:33,320 --> 00:48:36,639
that stuff grows, and it's believed by scholars that's actually

808
00:48:36,639 --> 00:48:41,280
how the Indians got it. So you know, spoking ganja

809
00:48:41,400 --> 00:48:44,360
in the Indian context, like that whole tradition comes from

810
00:48:44,480 --> 00:48:51,599
their proximity too to cat Cush in that Central Asian area.

811
00:48:52,039 --> 00:48:54,519
And then they've incorporated into their Hindu practice, so now

812
00:48:54,559 --> 00:48:59,280
you can find various practices and spiritual men that that's

813
00:48:59,320 --> 00:49:02,519
literally all that they do is they get high and

814
00:49:02,559 --> 00:49:07,239
then do these meditations or perform yoga all day. So, yeah,

815
00:49:07,320 --> 00:49:10,760
that region is incredibly important in regards to opium and

816
00:49:10,880 --> 00:49:14,679
marijuana or cannabis used. That's where that stuff really comes from.

817
00:49:15,280 --> 00:49:18,119
Speaker 1: Jarhead Orthodox ten dollars says this is a great topic.

818
00:49:18,199 --> 00:49:20,400
Can people like Joe Rogan and his guests stop trying

819
00:49:20,440 --> 00:49:22,880
to convince everybody the early Christians were on shrooms and

820
00:49:22,880 --> 00:49:25,320
then icons are all shrooms because there's a cow in

821
00:49:25,320 --> 00:49:27,960
the icon. Yeah, it's kind of funny. I didn't even

822
00:49:28,039 --> 00:49:30,519
realize until that guy was on with you guys that

823
00:49:30,800 --> 00:49:34,159
I heard the cows somehow. Oh, because cow's poop, that

824
00:49:34,159 --> 00:49:36,920
that means that there's That was the dumbest argument I've

825
00:49:36,960 --> 00:49:40,960
ever heard. But I mean, that is that just a

826
00:49:41,519 --> 00:49:45,840
I mean, are they just like making up stuff? Like

827
00:49:46,199 --> 00:49:48,119
where does this idea that because there's a cow it

828
00:49:48,199 --> 00:49:52,280
means I mean, are there even hallucinogenic mushrooms that grow

829
00:49:52,280 --> 00:49:53,880
in the Middle East? Maybe they are, And I just

830
00:49:53,960 --> 00:49:56,039
don't know, but it seems like a climate maybe that

831
00:49:56,079 --> 00:49:57,800
wouldn't foster this. I don't know.

832
00:49:59,360 --> 00:50:02,639
Speaker 2: I I mean, I'm not sure I would. I wouldn't

833
00:50:02,679 --> 00:50:08,320
be surprised, given again, my understanding of Hinduism. If you know,

834
00:50:08,400 --> 00:50:10,880
some people think it's an astrological thing of why they

835
00:50:10,920 --> 00:50:11,280
don't eat.

836
00:50:11,679 --> 00:50:16,119
Speaker 1: Not Hinduism. I'm talking about the the like Middle East, Israel, Palestine,

837
00:50:16,159 --> 00:50:19,239
like that region that area is is there a growth

838
00:50:19,280 --> 00:50:22,079
of a mushroom or hallucinogenic. I mean, I know there's

839
00:50:22,079 --> 00:50:22,599
not a pot.

840
00:50:23,679 --> 00:50:26,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, they don't have payout. I am not sure. I

841
00:50:26,360 --> 00:50:28,559
know they have like the Acacia bush. Like, that's the

842
00:50:28,679 --> 00:50:34,840
argument from actually Rick Strassman. He's the he's the the

843
00:50:34,920 --> 00:50:39,400
d MT researcher that really was behind the Spirit Molecule

844
00:50:39,519 --> 00:50:42,360
documentary of Joe Rogan. It's all based on this book.

845
00:50:42,679 --> 00:50:46,519
And in this book they put them on IV drips

846
00:50:46,519 --> 00:50:49,519
of d MT. And in this book he claims that

847
00:50:49,599 --> 00:50:53,000
the Acacia bush has d MT and if you could

848
00:50:53,000 --> 00:50:56,119
distill it in the proper way, that these people could

849
00:50:56,840 --> 00:51:00,119
be inebriated. He makes the argument which I've never ever

850
00:51:00,199 --> 00:51:03,880
seen another scholar actually try to validate that the burning bush,

851
00:51:04,199 --> 00:51:06,800
what he calls the myth of the burning bush with Moses,

852
00:51:06,880 --> 00:51:09,719
was actually in Acacia bush and that he was getting

853
00:51:09,840 --> 00:51:12,880
high on d MT in front of that burning bush.

854
00:51:12,880 --> 00:51:14,519
And that's where this whole thing comes from.

855
00:51:14,880 --> 00:51:16,760
Speaker 1: Okay, So I was gonna say, I mean, the rest

856
00:51:16,760 --> 00:51:18,800
of these things, it seems like they have to be imported.

857
00:51:20,719 --> 00:51:25,599
You know, maybe they were. I remember some druggy Gnosticish

858
00:51:25,679 --> 00:51:28,360
person at one time trying to argue that, you know,

859
00:51:28,360 --> 00:51:32,000
when the Israelites are in the desert and they wake

860
00:51:32,119 --> 00:51:35,360
up and the the mana is there. Oh, the mana

861
00:51:35,440 --> 00:51:37,920
must be you know, shrooms or something. And I'm like,

862
00:51:38,440 --> 00:51:40,800
I'm pretty sure that there wouldn't be mushrooms in the desert.

863
00:51:40,840 --> 00:51:43,599
That doesn't seem like a thing that would grow in

864
00:51:43,639 --> 00:51:44,159
the desert.

865
00:51:44,719 --> 00:51:47,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, in the desert, I doubt there's I Again, according

866
00:51:47,639 --> 00:51:49,840
to some of the these guys find the most minuscule

867
00:51:49,840 --> 00:51:52,960
amounts of anything that's psychoactive and then and then create

868
00:51:53,000 --> 00:51:55,800
a theory of how this could be ritualistically used in

869
00:51:55,840 --> 00:51:59,679
some manner in regards to psilocybin, Obviously it grows out

870
00:51:59,679 --> 00:52:03,800
of cow dung, so I could see potentially. But again

871
00:52:03,840 --> 00:52:06,199
with the Alasinian mysteries, that's in the Mediterranean, and that

872
00:52:06,280 --> 00:52:09,280
just has to do with a fungus. And so if

873
00:52:09,320 --> 00:52:12,679
the Alasinian mystery in the Kokon is some sort of

874
00:52:13,440 --> 00:52:18,280
ergoamine fungus, well maybe there's something going on around that

875
00:52:18,360 --> 00:52:22,519
period or those areas. I wouldn't be surprised. But I

876
00:52:22,559 --> 00:52:26,519
do not know of any specific psychoactive substance that is

877
00:52:27,360 --> 00:52:29,239
indicative or exclusive to that region.

878
00:52:29,880 --> 00:52:32,440
Speaker 1: What about this has kind of changed the focus a

879
00:52:32,440 --> 00:52:34,360
little bit because of something that pops in my head.

880
00:52:34,360 --> 00:52:38,480
A lot is a lot of the Russo Finnish Nordic

881
00:52:39,840 --> 00:52:45,559
stories and tales have this sort of father mushroom father.

882
00:52:45,960 --> 00:52:48,679
It's not Father Christmas, but he's like, I don't know,

883
00:52:48,760 --> 00:52:55,480
like ice Claus, like snow Claus version of Santa. There's actually,

884
00:52:55,760 --> 00:52:59,519
I forget the Russian name for like father snow time

885
00:52:59,599 --> 00:53:02,920
whatever he is. But there's like an older pagan version

886
00:53:02,960 --> 00:53:05,480
of like you know what I'm talking about, Like yeah,

887
00:53:05,519 --> 00:53:10,960
and then sometimes in the Russo Finish sort of pagan traditions,

888
00:53:11,519 --> 00:53:14,119
this is linked to mushrooms at times.

889
00:53:14,119 --> 00:53:18,280
Speaker 2: Have you heard this, yeah, the uh it's kind of

890
00:53:18,400 --> 00:53:20,880
it's kind of like the John Marco Legro where this

891
00:53:21,000 --> 00:53:24,159
is it's blown out of proportion where people argue that

892
00:53:24,360 --> 00:53:29,760
Christian Christmas is rooted within this pagan amitito muscaria mushroom ritual.

893
00:53:31,119 --> 00:53:33,880
But at least from what we actually do know regarding

894
00:53:33,880 --> 00:53:37,440
that argument is that these these Eskimo people that lived

895
00:53:37,559 --> 00:53:41,280
closer towards the North Pole and the Siberia, that they

896
00:53:41,320 --> 00:53:44,440
do practice a form of shamanism, and that they do

897
00:53:46,159 --> 00:53:51,760
ingest amity and muscaria mushrooms, and that they do pluck

898
00:53:51,840 --> 00:53:54,920
these things and that they drink the urine of reindeer

899
00:53:55,360 --> 00:53:58,880
because it filters. So the amity muscary mushroom is actually toxic,

900
00:53:58,960 --> 00:54:01,039
has muskemol in it, and so you have to let

901
00:54:01,079 --> 00:54:03,559
it sit and dry for an extensive period of time

902
00:54:03,599 --> 00:54:05,599
before it can be consumed or you'll get really sick.

903
00:54:05,639 --> 00:54:07,360
This's why they say it's a toxic mushroom. You can

904
00:54:07,400 --> 00:54:09,239
kill you. Well, if you just eat it when it's wet,

905
00:54:09,320 --> 00:54:12,440
it can kill you. And so they have to let

906
00:54:12,480 --> 00:54:16,280
this thing dry or another mechanism is allow the reindeers,

907
00:54:16,320 --> 00:54:19,599
which we do know that reindeers do eat this particular mushroom,

908
00:54:20,280 --> 00:54:22,400
and then you drink their urine, which we know that

909
00:54:22,440 --> 00:54:27,199
they did. And so there's an argument that the mythology

910
00:54:27,239 --> 00:54:30,400
of Santa Claus flying around on a sleigh behind reindeer

911
00:54:30,880 --> 00:54:33,559
dressed in red and white is tied with this sort

912
00:54:33,599 --> 00:54:37,440
of ritualistic use of the aminimscaria mushroom. They claim that

913
00:54:38,400 --> 00:54:40,960
the reasons we put presents under the Christmas tree is

914
00:54:41,000 --> 00:54:45,519
because these mushrooms grow under coniferous trees, and that they're

915
00:54:45,599 --> 00:54:48,239
like the gifts that the gods have given the people.

916
00:54:48,480 --> 00:54:51,039
And then they take the presence and they set them

917
00:54:51,119 --> 00:54:53,320
on the tree so that they can dry in the sun,

918
00:54:54,000 --> 00:54:57,119
and that the reindeers consume them, and because the reindeers

919
00:54:57,119 --> 00:54:59,480
can get high along with the people, that they fly

920
00:55:00,280 --> 00:55:03,599
the world together, and that Santa Claus is like shaman

921
00:55:03,679 --> 00:55:08,719
Clause or something like that. Certainly those practices do exist.

922
00:55:09,239 --> 00:55:11,920
But once you then try to say that's the origin

923
00:55:12,000 --> 00:55:16,199
of Christmas, like, that's just an an achronistic ahistorical argument.

924
00:55:16,239 --> 00:55:19,519
It just doesn't hold up to then then argue, which

925
00:55:19,519 --> 00:55:23,519
they do, is that the entirety of Christian Christmas is

926
00:55:23,559 --> 00:55:27,280
a solar ritual that's tied with these pagan practices that

927
00:55:27,400 --> 00:55:30,719
is reincorporated into the birth of God, which is really

928
00:55:31,159 --> 00:55:33,280
due to the death and rebirth of the people that

929
00:55:33,480 --> 00:55:37,320
ate the Aminymuscary mushrooms. So regards to the grand narrative,

930
00:55:37,400 --> 00:55:40,159
there's no historical evidence for that. In regards to the

931
00:55:40,199 --> 00:55:45,639
specific use of the Siberian Eskimo native peoples, yes, but

932
00:55:45,760 --> 00:55:48,320
then to take what those people did and then say,

933
00:55:48,360 --> 00:55:51,400
look at Christmas, it's all that. No, that's not a

934
00:55:51,440 --> 00:55:52,320
strong argument at all.

935
00:55:52,400 --> 00:55:54,239
Speaker 1: What I was trying to remember the name I couldn't

936
00:55:54,280 --> 00:55:58,280
think of is he's called dead Moreause, and that's that's

937
00:55:58,639 --> 00:56:04,760
the Russian pagan name for Father Frost or Grandfather Frost.

938
00:56:05,559 --> 00:56:07,280
And if you look at him, it's funny because he

939
00:56:07,320 --> 00:56:09,760
looks kind of like the way he's drawn and the

940
00:56:09,760 --> 00:56:11,480
way they make him up, he kind of looks like

941
00:56:11,519 --> 00:56:15,679
a pagan version of like Bishop Nicholas. He's like, he's

942
00:56:15,679 --> 00:56:19,039
an interesting character, but it reminds me too of there's

943
00:56:19,079 --> 00:56:22,400
a really funny kind of classic episode of Mystery Science

944
00:56:22,440 --> 00:56:25,800
Theater called Jack Frost and then riff tracks the more

945
00:56:26,079 --> 00:56:30,320
recent instantiation. They redid the old Mystery Science Theater version.

946
00:56:30,480 --> 00:56:32,239
It's a nineteen sixty four movie that they kind of

947
00:56:32,280 --> 00:56:34,599
riff on and make fun of. It's really right up

948
00:56:34,639 --> 00:56:37,079
this alley because they basically take a bunch of the

949
00:56:37,280 --> 00:56:42,199
Russo Finnish pagan myths and tales and they put it

950
00:56:42,239 --> 00:56:46,920
into this really weird, trippy movie with Father Frost and

951
00:56:47,079 --> 00:56:52,280
with Father Mushroom, all these weird sort of pagan characters.

952
00:56:52,280 --> 00:56:54,800
Everybody should watch it because it ties in perfectly what

953
00:56:54,840 --> 00:56:56,440
we're talking about. I'm gonna put in the checks. I

954
00:56:56,440 --> 00:57:00,159
actually found it on YouTube, but every time we talk

955
00:57:00,159 --> 00:57:04,039
about this, I think of Father Frost, and it makes

956
00:57:04,039 --> 00:57:06,559
me think of this movie because in the movie, before

957
00:57:06,800 --> 00:57:10,519
Father Frost arrives, you have to have this encounter with

958
00:57:10,519 --> 00:57:13,599
with Father Mushroom, who's this little weird, sort of trippy

959
00:57:13,679 --> 00:57:16,280
dude out in the He's a little trickster deity who

960
00:57:16,360 --> 00:57:19,119
exists as a gnome in the forest. And this is

961
00:57:19,159 --> 00:57:22,159
again a combination of a bunch of the mythology from

962
00:57:22,199 --> 00:57:26,239
that region. But Thomas trezier Be can remember what's up? Man.

963
00:57:26,280 --> 00:57:27,719
Guys want to support the stream, you can do so

964
00:57:27,800 --> 00:57:31,559
by using super chats or stream labs. The stream labs

965
00:57:31,559 --> 00:57:36,000
link is penned. And remember, guys, stream labs does not

966
00:57:36,559 --> 00:57:39,440
take a cut. So if you would like to support

967
00:57:39,480 --> 00:57:41,320
the stream, and I will give a portion of this

968
00:57:41,400 --> 00:57:43,119
to uh.

969
00:57:42,960 --> 00:57:45,119
Speaker 2: Doctor, I appreciate you have me on. You don't need

970
00:57:45,159 --> 00:57:48,039
to what's that You don't need to split it, man,

971
00:57:48,199 --> 00:57:49,599
Just I appreciate you having me on.

972
00:57:49,800 --> 00:57:52,280
Speaker 1: Well, you guys, if you want to also, I've got

973
00:57:52,280 --> 00:57:54,199
in the in the show description. We'll begin into this

974
00:57:54,239 --> 00:57:58,599
here in a second, but doctor Patrick Garry has also

975
00:57:58,639 --> 00:58:00,639
set up Logos Academy, so I'll go ahead and give

976
00:58:00,639 --> 00:58:01,920
you guys that link right there. It's also in the

977
00:58:01,920 --> 00:58:04,000
show description. And this is going to be kind of

978
00:58:04,000 --> 00:58:11,239
his sort of private tutoring approach to what the way

979
00:58:11,239 --> 00:58:13,119
he's going to do education. I think this is the

980
00:58:13,119 --> 00:58:15,800
future of education. As you guys know, I offer a

981
00:58:15,880 --> 00:58:20,679
course on philosophy through Richard Grosse's outlet as well autonomy

982
00:58:20,840 --> 00:58:22,679
or a marketplace. That's in the show description too. You

983
00:58:22,719 --> 00:58:25,360
can get my philosophy course. We'll talk about that in

984
00:58:25,360 --> 00:58:28,559
a minute. But a Panini says for five pounds, ritual

985
00:58:28,559 --> 00:58:33,280
abuse and mind control The Manipulation of Attachment is a

986
00:58:33,320 --> 00:58:38,199
book by ort Epstein, Joseph Schwartz, and Rachel Schwartz. Okay,

987
00:58:38,239 --> 00:58:41,320
we'll have to check out that book. This kind of Actually,

988
00:58:41,360 --> 00:58:44,239
I think this is the book that Jamie, my wife has,

989
00:58:44,280 --> 00:58:46,639
I think she has that book. Me and Eugene five dollars.

990
00:58:46,719 --> 00:58:50,079
Let's go fellas. Rachel Wilson sends twenty bucks. Thank you

991
00:58:50,119 --> 00:58:53,960
so much. Rachel Wilson, appreciate that. She says, Number one,

992
00:58:54,760 --> 00:58:58,679
c K, what's up to one of our growing black

993
00:58:58,960 --> 00:59:02,280
audience members, as you guys know, identify as a black man,

994
00:59:02,320 --> 00:59:03,840
and that's bringing more and more.

995
00:59:03,840 --> 00:59:04,960
Speaker 2: You're huge in that community.

996
00:59:05,039 --> 00:59:07,320
Speaker 1: I am growing. I'm gonna be like the I'm gonna

997
00:59:07,320 --> 00:59:11,079
be basically the next Tyler Perry when I do some

998
00:59:11,199 --> 00:59:13,400
stand up for the black people in the black community.

999
00:59:15,199 --> 00:59:19,519
Thank you, c K appreciate that Harvest five dollars. Somehow

1000
00:59:19,519 --> 00:59:21,559
I came across this channel in the last week or two.

1001
00:59:21,840 --> 00:59:23,599
I'm still trying to figure out what it is, but

1002
00:59:23,679 --> 00:59:26,360
I'm here. Well, we do all kinds of stuff, so

1003
00:59:26,360 --> 00:59:27,960
that might be what's throwing you for a loop. So

1004
00:59:28,000 --> 00:59:31,039
sometimes I do comedic streams. Sometimes I do very focused

1005
00:59:31,079 --> 00:59:34,360
geopolitical streams. Sometimes we do interviews, like with the great

1006
00:59:34,519 --> 00:59:38,400
doctor David Patrick Harry. Sometimes we just you know, joke around.

1007
00:59:38,599 --> 00:59:40,400
It's all over the place. We do it all here.

1008
00:59:40,440 --> 00:59:43,800
But thank you for being with us Harvest chairs for

1009
00:59:43,960 --> 00:59:47,719
twenty sex, which is some shitty currency that ends up

1010
00:59:47,719 --> 00:59:51,079
being about thirty cents, But thank you for that. Dph

1011
00:59:51,280 --> 00:59:54,400
are you let me preface this with I don't know

1012
00:59:54,400 --> 00:59:56,800
if he is, but I am familiar. Of course, we

1013
00:59:56,880 --> 00:59:59,679
had a bad interaction with this individual some years back,

1014
01:00:01,639 --> 01:00:04,360
and I think this person has ended up in Mormonism.

1015
01:00:04,360 --> 01:00:08,000
But Kotail, are you familiar with Jan Irvin and gnostic

1016
01:00:08,079 --> 01:00:10,599
media claims? And he was one of the characters that

1017
01:00:10,760 --> 01:00:14,360
was on those early Joe Rogan podcasts when Joe was

1018
01:00:14,360 --> 01:00:17,360
first talking about alegro and all.

1019
01:00:17,280 --> 01:00:23,760
Speaker 2: That I am familiar with. Jan I've never interacted or

1020
01:00:23,800 --> 01:00:27,840
engaged with him. From my understanding, he was big into

1021
01:00:27,880 --> 01:00:30,559
the psychedelic stuff, and then he was like big into

1022
01:00:30,800 --> 01:00:34,920
calling out the intelligence agencies behind mckinna and Leary. And

1023
01:00:35,000 --> 01:00:37,719
then last I was aware he like changed all of

1024
01:00:37,719 --> 01:00:40,480
his stuff to like logos media and was Christian.

1025
01:00:40,760 --> 01:00:41,880
Speaker 1: He's Mormon.

1026
01:00:42,239 --> 01:00:46,960
Speaker 2: He's Mormon now, okay, so yeah, I really don't follow

1027
01:00:47,000 --> 01:00:51,360
that guy. He was. He actually wrote a book that's

1028
01:00:51,400 --> 01:00:53,960
mentioned in this one, The Psychedelic Gospels, where he tried

1029
01:00:53,960 --> 01:01:01,159
to argue for this eucharistic mushroom theory within Christianity. So unfortunately,

1030
01:01:01,239 --> 01:01:06,079
his book for him, unfortunately was never touted in no

1031
01:01:06,199 --> 01:01:10,239
academic actually used it or cited. Even Jerry Brown says

1032
01:01:10,360 --> 01:01:12,719
that the research and it's very dubious, and that is

1033
01:01:12,800 --> 01:01:16,760
him literally interpreting anything that he could pull in regards

1034
01:01:16,760 --> 01:01:20,000
to mushroom or psychedelics, trying to argue that this is

1035
01:01:20,000 --> 01:01:21,199
the origin of Christianity.

1036
01:01:22,039 --> 01:01:24,039
Speaker 1: Hush Tone says, for five dollars, we all know that

1037
01:01:24,079 --> 01:01:26,920
you're honorary black because you always show up later than

1038
01:01:26,920 --> 01:01:30,599
your life. Trams are set for well The explanation for

1039
01:01:30,639 --> 01:01:34,119
that is that Jay Dier time just also happened to

1040
01:01:34,119 --> 01:01:37,239
coincide with Black people time, and so we actually linked

1041
01:01:37,320 --> 01:01:39,800
up on being late, and we decided that we're all

1042
01:01:39,840 --> 01:01:44,119
one people. Bro jet for five bucks, we need David

1043
01:01:44,159 --> 01:01:48,719
Patrick carry on Sam Tripoli's tenfoil hat. That would be

1044
01:01:48,760 --> 01:01:52,280
an interesting conversation. I know Sam likes to go out

1045
01:01:52,320 --> 01:01:56,320
there in the weeds in terms of the psychedelic speculations,

1046
01:01:56,480 --> 01:01:59,639
So maybe I don't know if Cotel would you be

1047
01:01:59,679 --> 01:02:03,159
interesting going on some of the comedian streams. Yeah, absolutely,

1048
01:02:03,880 --> 01:02:05,360
help me to suggest.

1049
01:02:05,559 --> 01:02:08,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, please, Okay, I'll.

1050
01:02:07,559 --> 01:02:11,239
Speaker 1: See if Tripley is interested. Seamus twenty dollars says, have

1051
01:02:11,320 --> 01:02:15,400
you ever thought about consulting for Orthodox or Roman Catholics

1052
01:02:15,480 --> 01:02:20,440
on the issue related to converting pagans and occultis? Both

1053
01:02:20,559 --> 01:02:24,800
churches have seen their exorcism ministries grow, and they say

1054
01:02:24,840 --> 01:02:29,039
that the growth of occultism is an issue. I'll answer

1055
01:02:29,079 --> 01:02:32,760
this and then I'll let Cotail answer. I don't really

1056
01:02:33,000 --> 01:02:38,400
know that the priests need consultation from myself. I wouldn't

1057
01:02:38,400 --> 01:02:41,320
call myself an expert on the occult. I've read a

1058
01:02:41,360 --> 01:02:44,559
lot about the occult, written some books on it in

1059
01:02:44,639 --> 01:02:47,559
terms of Hollywood and symbolism. But I don't really think

1060
01:02:47,599 --> 01:02:53,639
typically for catechisis anything like that's really necessary. Maybe just

1061
01:02:53,719 --> 01:02:59,320
more so, perhaps awareness that occult traditions are growing and

1062
01:02:59,360 --> 01:03:01,840
becoming more popular. We probably will need more and more

1063
01:03:02,199 --> 01:03:05,679
exorcisms as time goes by. But in the Orthodox Church,

1064
01:03:06,079 --> 01:03:10,000
exorcisms are typically just part of baptism. They're not. It's

1065
01:03:10,079 --> 01:03:13,360
not like this special ritual like in the Roman Catholic world,

1066
01:03:13,440 --> 01:03:15,880
the Latin rite of exorcism and all this kind of stuff.

1067
01:03:15,880 --> 01:03:19,280
It's a little more hollywoodized. Cotel, what do you think

1068
01:03:19,280 --> 01:03:22,280
about consulting Roman Catholics on occultism.

1069
01:03:24,000 --> 01:03:27,639
Speaker 2: I think that's a dubious idea. And really, for catechisis

1070
01:03:27,719 --> 01:03:30,239
the only thing that an Orthodox priest needs to make

1071
01:03:30,280 --> 01:03:35,119
aware of to a Catechuman is that occultism and the

1072
01:03:35,159 --> 01:03:39,039
effectiveness of actual occult rituals is real. And I get

1073
01:03:39,039 --> 01:03:41,480
people that are Catechumans and they ask me that quite well,

1074
01:03:41,519 --> 01:03:43,480
what do you think about magic? And it's like, well,

1075
01:03:43,519 --> 01:03:47,239
our paradigm said that this stuff is actually real. You

1076
01:03:47,280 --> 01:03:49,480
don't need to learn about it. And especially I wouldn't

1077
01:03:49,480 --> 01:03:52,320
recommend anybody until you're brought into the church and really

1078
01:03:52,639 --> 01:03:56,320
understand and gain a fronom of Orthodoxy, because I've talked

1079
01:03:56,320 --> 01:03:58,639
with a handful of guys that had like one foot

1080
01:03:58,679 --> 01:04:01,599
still in this occult match spiritual world and then one

1081
01:04:01,639 --> 01:04:04,719
foot in the Orthodoxy, and Orthodoxy for them is very

1082
01:04:05,159 --> 01:04:08,920
like a rational argumentation. And then I talk with them

1083
01:04:08,920 --> 01:04:11,559
and lo and behold. You know, six months goes by

1084
01:04:11,679 --> 01:04:15,360
and the asceticism and the spirituality of Orthodoxy isn't as

1085
01:04:15,400 --> 01:04:17,400
appealing as being able to still take drugs and do

1086
01:04:17,440 --> 01:04:20,320
all this other stuff. So I think for anybody getting

1087
01:04:20,360 --> 01:04:23,199
in the church, just focus on Orthodoxy and once you're in,

1088
01:04:23,239 --> 01:04:24,840
if you want to, then go back and look at

1089
01:04:24,840 --> 01:04:26,360
the history of this stuff. Feel free.

1090
01:04:30,320 --> 01:04:33,880
Speaker 1: John of San Francisco since twenty five dollars says, thank

1091
01:04:33,920 --> 01:04:36,440
you for this all this help. You've helped me learn

1092
01:04:36,480 --> 01:04:39,559
a lot and sent me kept me sane at my work.

1093
01:04:39,599 --> 01:04:41,519
God bless Yeah, a lot of people listen at work,

1094
01:04:41,559 --> 01:04:45,360
and I'm glad that it helps keep you guys sane.

1095
01:04:45,559 --> 01:04:48,960
That's good to know. Ellie's W's became a member for

1096
01:04:49,239 --> 01:04:51,840
three months. Welcome Ellie. Guys. Be sure and check the

1097
01:04:51,880 --> 01:04:54,280
member section over here, and of course also have the

1098
01:04:54,320 --> 01:04:57,480
member section at the website, it's largely the same material,

1099
01:04:57,480 --> 01:04:59,360
but of course I haven't been able to move everything

1100
01:04:59,360 --> 01:05:02,360
from the website over here on YouTube because we've only

1101
01:05:02,400 --> 01:05:05,559
been remonetized for a few months now on YouTube. But

1102
01:05:05,639 --> 01:05:08,920
anything new, of course goes into the members section on

1103
01:05:08,960 --> 01:05:11,199
YouTube as well. And yes, overall it is pretty much

1104
01:05:11,239 --> 01:05:14,760
the same material, but the full archive is available at

1105
01:05:14,760 --> 01:05:18,400
the website. Feels for days five pounds, we evolve from monkeys.

1106
01:05:18,440 --> 01:05:22,599
They was eating magic poopoo peepe mushrooms. Also, Father Frost

1107
01:05:22,679 --> 01:05:25,920
is a Communist version of Santa I think Father Frost

1108
01:05:26,119 --> 01:05:29,480
is way pre communism. He's an older pagan version. But

1109
01:05:29,559 --> 01:05:34,280
perhaps the Soviets did utilize Father Frost as some sort

1110
01:05:34,320 --> 01:05:37,719
of way to kind of war against the Saint Nicholas

1111
01:05:37,800 --> 01:05:42,440
or something in the church. But communists, interestingly, they tended

1112
01:05:42,480 --> 01:05:46,440
to socialists, and communists have tended, at least in the

1113
01:05:46,519 --> 01:05:49,760
terms of the party, to be anti drugs. Isn't that

1114
01:05:50,280 --> 01:05:51,559
what you find to be the case?

1115
01:05:52,800 --> 01:05:55,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, hardcore communists tend to be kind of anti drugs

1116
01:05:56,000 --> 01:05:58,599
because that could give you some pernicious ideas that are

1117
01:05:58,639 --> 01:06:01,159
anti communists. They can't control that.

1118
01:06:01,639 --> 01:06:05,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, it seems like, you know, I'm pretty

1119
01:06:05,280 --> 01:06:11,639
sure the Soviet Party didn't want, you know, drugs going

1120
01:06:11,679 --> 01:06:15,159
on on a larger scale, but maybe early Bolsheviks were

1121
01:06:15,199 --> 01:06:18,480
super party oriented, and then you know, I don't know.

1122
01:06:18,519 --> 01:06:20,159
I don't know the whole history of exactly how they

1123
01:06:20,239 --> 01:06:22,239
viewed drugs, but I would think that my guess would

1124
01:06:22,239 --> 01:06:22,360
be there.

1125
01:06:22,400 --> 01:06:25,920
Speaker 2: I think alcohol, alcohol was definitely warmly welcome, but I

1126
01:06:26,360 --> 01:06:29,159
don't know if any at least me personally. I don't

1127
01:06:29,159 --> 01:06:34,760
know of anything regarding inebriate substances and communism. Typically, from

1128
01:06:34,760 --> 01:06:37,239
my understanding, the Bolsheviks were not interested in allowing people

1129
01:06:37,239 --> 01:06:39,920
to get anebriated. You could drink as much alcohol as

1130
01:06:39,960 --> 01:06:41,039
you want, they didn't care about that.

1131
01:06:41,239 --> 01:06:46,559
Speaker 1: Yeah, Dance Commodore two hundred and fifty rons. I love

1132
01:06:46,639 --> 01:06:49,679
David Patrick carry Also, thank you for your comedy Jay

1133
01:06:50,119 --> 01:06:52,519
the only place where I laugh and get educated at

1134
01:06:52,599 --> 01:06:53,280
the same time.

1135
01:06:53,360 --> 01:06:53,559
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1136
01:06:53,599 --> 01:06:56,480
Speaker 1: I think that's kind of what we've always wanted to do, was,

1137
01:06:56,679 --> 01:07:01,119
you know, synthesize both of those both of those things.

1138
01:07:01,159 --> 01:07:05,320
Have it be edutainment infotainment, and have it be you know,

1139
01:07:05,400 --> 01:07:08,639
funny and fun at the same time. Let's see, we've

1140
01:07:08,639 --> 01:07:11,519
got some more super chats. Cholo Mechicano ten dollars. When

1141
01:07:11,559 --> 01:07:14,519
are we gonna slaughter some of those sacred cows and

1142
01:07:14,599 --> 01:07:18,519
make hamburgers? Yeah, I mean I've always wondered. I can't

1143
01:07:18,519 --> 01:07:22,679
prove this, but I've always wondered if India's worship of

1144
01:07:22,760 --> 01:07:26,440
the cow was somehow related to like the ancient you know,

1145
01:07:27,800 --> 01:07:30,559
you know an erin when Moses goes up on the

1146
01:07:30,559 --> 01:07:33,000
mountain and they're worshiping the calf the god of Egypt,

1147
01:07:33,000 --> 01:07:37,599
Like maybe Egypt bequeathed this you know, deity in some

1148
01:07:37,599 --> 01:07:40,559
some way to India. Maybe India was reverencing the deity

1149
01:07:40,599 --> 01:07:43,840
earlier and it somehow got into Egypt. Do you know

1150
01:07:43,920 --> 01:07:45,519
much about that? Any theories on that?

1151
01:07:46,280 --> 01:07:50,320
Speaker 2: Uh No, there, I mean the theories regarding the veneration

1152
01:07:50,400 --> 01:07:52,239
of the calf. Some believe it has to do with

1153
01:07:52,400 --> 01:07:55,840
an after the zodiac, that these practices originated in that

1154
01:07:55,920 --> 01:08:00,760
it may have been a veneration of was it aries

1155
01:08:01,960 --> 01:08:04,559
which one's the ball no Taurus during some like the

1156
01:08:04,880 --> 01:08:08,599
Taurus period. Again, this is kind of in the wheelhouse

1157
01:08:08,639 --> 01:08:12,079
of the Graham Hancock like looking at the maderial time

1158
01:08:12,159 --> 01:08:15,079
and the zodiacs and trying to figure out mythology and stuff.

1159
01:08:15,119 --> 01:08:18,520
Like that. Some people argue that's where this stuff comes from.

1160
01:08:18,600 --> 01:08:21,720
Others have argued, like the gnostic guy that was on

1161
01:08:21,760 --> 01:08:25,000
my open panel, that this has to do with psilocybin, mushrooms,

1162
01:08:25,000 --> 01:08:31,000
with cow dung. Potentially, it's kind of an unsolved mystery

1163
01:08:31,039 --> 01:08:35,119
as what is the actual reason why cows are so

1164
01:08:35,199 --> 01:08:38,279
highly venerated within Hinduism Because at least historically, at least

1165
01:08:38,319 --> 01:08:40,399
like in the rig Veda period, that wasn't the case.

1166
01:08:43,479 --> 01:08:47,520
Speaker 1: Let's see, we got jets and five bucks and says, no,

1167
01:08:47,640 --> 01:08:51,439
we wade those. Excuse me, bust down, Jubilee. Okay, Joe

1168
01:08:51,520 --> 01:08:55,960
one dollar. Let's give doctor Dph some flowers. How much

1169
01:08:56,000 --> 01:09:00,279
do you guys love and watch dph? Jay? I watched

1170
01:09:00,319 --> 01:09:04,359
pretty much. I would say ninety percent of dph's streams

1171
01:09:04,399 --> 01:09:10,159
I end up watching. Let's see John Jason Cassell. Wow,

1172
01:09:10,199 --> 01:09:12,119
he sends a hundred bucks. Thanks man. I appreciate that.

1173
01:09:12,159 --> 01:09:15,560
He says, hello, gentlemen, I'm a new Orthodox, But I

1174
01:09:15,600 --> 01:09:18,359
am wrong? Am I wrong to assume that people that

1175
01:09:18,520 --> 01:09:24,920
claim to have spiritual awakenings and finding God are suffering

1176
01:09:25,079 --> 01:09:28,840
from pre list? Well, we don't know. I think time

1177
01:09:29,239 --> 01:09:32,399
usually tells you know whether that person was having a

1178
01:09:32,439 --> 01:09:37,079
real experience. I think it's possible that even a bad

1179
01:09:37,199 --> 01:09:41,359
drug trip could spur a person on to go to

1180
01:09:41,439 --> 01:09:44,279
church or to seek God. I mean, that's possible. I

1181
01:09:44,399 --> 01:09:48,079
just think that time is the ultimate sort of determiner,

1182
01:09:48,119 --> 01:09:51,520
because if a person isn't really serious or interested in it,

1183
01:09:51,600 --> 01:09:55,600
and they have some sort of ecstatic drug experience, that

1184
01:09:55,680 --> 01:09:58,399
tends to fade and then people move on to other things.

1185
01:09:59,680 --> 01:10:03,319
But will ask doctor David Patrick Carrey, to what degree

1186
01:10:03,359 --> 01:10:08,279
in your life did hallucin engens indirectly maybe point you

1187
01:10:08,319 --> 01:10:11,239
in the direction of Christianity in God, or maybe it didn't,

1188
01:10:11,560 --> 01:10:14,359
And do you think these things can potentially be ways

1189
01:10:14,399 --> 01:10:17,880
where people accidentally wake up to real Christianity or something.

1190
01:10:20,199 --> 01:10:23,600
Speaker 2: So Obviously, because of my background, I've dealt with a

1191
01:10:23,600 --> 01:10:25,720
lot of Orthodox converts that come from the sort of

1192
01:10:25,800 --> 01:10:29,520
psychoonot area, and there are a handful of cases in

1193
01:10:29,560 --> 01:10:33,720
which people had some type of mystical encounter that changed

1194
01:10:33,760 --> 01:10:38,239
their direction and orientation. I had something similar. I would

1195
01:10:38,279 --> 01:10:42,000
never say that taking psychedelics like brings you closer to God,

1196
01:10:43,000 --> 01:10:45,560
because I also had a lot of weird things that

1197
01:10:45,640 --> 01:10:47,600
I thought were going to come true that never did.

1198
01:10:47,680 --> 01:10:50,520
I mean Terence McKinnon his time wave zero theory. He

1199
01:10:50,560 --> 01:10:53,920
thought that like time machines were going to be invented,

1200
01:10:54,000 --> 01:10:55,520
or the apocalypse of some sort of the end of

1201
01:10:55,600 --> 01:10:58,680
history was in the year two thousand and I think

1202
01:10:58,680 --> 01:11:01,560
this is consistent with like these weird fabrications you get

1203
01:11:01,560 --> 01:11:04,800
when you go into altered psychoanatic space and then you're

1204
01:11:05,000 --> 01:11:08,199
totally convinced because of the phenomenological experience that something is

1205
01:11:08,239 --> 01:11:11,760
getting ready to occur, and then it never does. For

1206
01:11:11,880 --> 01:11:15,319
me personally, it was actually after I did that PhD

1207
01:11:15,439 --> 01:11:19,439
course on Orthodoxy, history and theology, and I began watching

1208
01:11:19,479 --> 01:11:22,239
some Josiah Trenham videos that summer, and Jay actually told

1209
01:11:22,359 --> 01:11:25,159
you that it was the first video I watched of yours.

1210
01:11:25,520 --> 01:11:27,600
Now I'm blanking on the title, but it was on

1211
01:11:27,760 --> 01:11:32,039
logos and theories of numbers or something of that. I

1212
01:11:32,039 --> 01:11:35,239
forget exactly what the title was, but I clicked on

1213
01:11:35,279 --> 01:11:38,960
your video and you were talking about sort of the

1214
01:11:39,000 --> 01:11:42,119
paradigm and really doing a kind of presuppositional approach to

1215
01:11:42,159 --> 01:11:45,800
philosophy and theology. And I was still psychedelic, but I

1216
01:11:45,840 --> 01:11:49,359
really liked this paradigm of Orthodoxy. But again, I'm a

1217
01:11:49,399 --> 01:11:53,039
non believer. I'm not interested in joining a man made institution,

1218
01:11:54,439 --> 01:11:56,640
and that just kind of wore on me. Towards that

1219
01:11:56,760 --> 01:11:59,479
last semester that I took, I did a high dose

1220
01:11:59,640 --> 01:12:04,319
LS the trip in my apartment in Berkeley, California, and

1221
01:12:04,439 --> 01:12:07,399
at the end of it, I had this quote unquote

1222
01:12:07,399 --> 01:12:11,600
epiphany that all these things I liked about psychedelic spirituality

1223
01:12:11,680 --> 01:12:16,720
or the New Age, be it fractal mathematics, sacred geometry, psymatics,

1224
01:12:18,319 --> 01:12:22,279
the unity of peoples, that actually all this stuff is

1225
01:12:22,319 --> 01:12:28,119
reinterpreted and properly expressed within Christianity regarding logos metaphysics, and

1226
01:12:28,159 --> 01:12:31,720
that's where your video on numbers like actually influenced this

1227
01:12:32,239 --> 01:12:36,880
realization later. But loving your neighbor as yourself as opposed

1228
01:12:36,920 --> 01:12:40,920
that we're all one, like this sylopsism of psychedelics is

1229
01:12:41,119 --> 01:12:44,880
properly interpreted. Is that, no, you love your neighbor as yourself,

1230
01:12:44,880 --> 01:12:46,880
but actually you're just think peoples. And so I had

1231
01:12:46,880 --> 01:12:50,239
this quote unquote epiphany. And it was that night in

1232
01:12:50,279 --> 01:12:53,199
twenty eighteen that I began to pray for the first

1233
01:12:53,199 --> 01:12:55,880
time since again that I lost my naive Methodist faith.

1234
01:12:56,520 --> 01:12:59,680
And then I was convinced that I was John Cyril

1235
01:13:00,319 --> 01:13:02,720
for those who don't know. He's a famous analytic philosopher,

1236
01:13:02,800 --> 01:13:06,199
arguably the most famous still living. And he was fired

1237
01:13:06,520 --> 01:13:08,880
from Berkeley, California when I was there, and I and

1238
01:13:09,000 --> 01:13:11,319
as as he was fired. That next semester, I did

1239
01:13:11,359 --> 01:13:13,920
a chorus on person in Neuroscience where he presented his

1240
01:13:15,199 --> 01:13:18,399
Chinese room thought experiment, which kind of debunks the functionalist

1241
01:13:18,399 --> 01:13:22,199
definition of AI Syndian intelligence and stuff like that. But

1242
01:13:22,680 --> 01:13:25,439
he talked a little bit about being fired and how

1243
01:13:25,520 --> 01:13:27,479
he again he asked like some woman who was like

1244
01:13:27,520 --> 01:13:29,720
almost fifty years old out to dinner and he was

1245
01:13:29,760 --> 01:13:33,199
in his seventies, and yeah, he's probably the biggest, one

1246
01:13:33,199 --> 01:13:36,199
of the biggest figures at Berkeley. Well they fired him

1247
01:13:36,199 --> 01:13:38,720
for that, for sexual harassment. And so I'm sitting there

1248
01:13:38,880 --> 01:13:41,399
in Berkeley with him also being an instructor now at

1249
01:13:41,399 --> 01:13:43,239
the Dominican School because he can't teach at Berkeley.

1250
01:13:43,279 --> 01:13:45,319
Speaker 1: You're also a straight white male who's going to get

1251
01:13:45,359 --> 01:13:48,720
fired for as you know exactly. I mean, that's what

1252
01:13:48,760 --> 01:13:50,840
they do. Like I think, I mean, you know this,

1253
01:13:50,920 --> 01:13:53,479
but like when I decided that I didn't want to

1254
01:13:53,479 --> 01:13:55,479
be in academia, I wanted to get a PhD. And

1255
01:13:55,520 --> 01:13:58,079
all that you know, I was in grad school, and

1256
01:13:58,079 --> 01:14:00,840
I was like, okay, I realize it's very much a click.

1257
01:14:00,960 --> 01:14:04,199
And you know, these feminists, these radical liberals, like they

1258
01:14:04,239 --> 01:14:07,079
don't want anyone like us in the in that sphere.

1259
01:14:07,560 --> 01:14:11,039
Speaker 2: No, no, and I and that was very palpable being

1260
01:14:11,079 --> 01:14:15,479
in the Bay Area. And so after that experience, I decided,

1261
01:14:15,640 --> 01:14:18,640
holy shit, I got to do something because I cannot

1262
01:14:18,680 --> 01:14:21,600
depend on working for a university. And that's actually what

1263
01:14:21,680 --> 01:14:24,279
eventually led to me creating Church of the Eternal Logos

1264
01:14:24,840 --> 01:14:27,640
Is I thought. And I had this pro psychedelic channel,

1265
01:14:27,640 --> 01:14:30,960
but my whole again as that journey from Orthodoxy and

1266
01:14:31,000 --> 01:14:34,439
then you and Josiah, Father Josiah, and then eventually now

1267
01:14:34,600 --> 01:14:37,600
in my heart feeling like Christianity is the truth. I

1268
01:14:37,640 --> 01:14:39,920
didn't want to keep making all that content promoting Terrence

1269
01:14:39,960 --> 01:14:42,720
McKinnon and Timothy Leary. So I thought, man, the only

1270
01:14:42,760 --> 01:14:44,840
option for me is to create a new YouTube channel.

1271
01:14:45,520 --> 01:14:50,600
And so I my my mom got diagnosed with an

1272
01:14:50,680 --> 01:14:53,119
illness at that time, and I was kind of going

1273
01:14:53,159 --> 01:14:55,920
through a crisis. I needed to decide if I was

1274
01:14:55,960 --> 01:14:59,079
going to stay in Berkeley to finish my dissertation and

1275
01:14:59,159 --> 01:15:02,319
use their resources or just do it remotely, and so

1276
01:15:02,439 --> 01:15:04,840
I went. The last time I took quote unquote psychedelics,

1277
01:15:04,840 --> 01:15:07,800
I did an ayahuasca ceremony and Joshua tree. And this

1278
01:15:07,840 --> 01:15:11,399
is before becoming Orthodox. But during this whole transitional phase

1279
01:15:12,239 --> 01:15:15,239
and during that experience, I had done a lot of psychedelics,

1280
01:15:15,279 --> 01:15:17,840
but I never had the experience I had during this

1281
01:15:17,920 --> 01:15:21,000
ayahuasca ceremony, where I consumed the eyewasking why who's done

1282
01:15:21,039 --> 01:15:23,359
these things? Again, don't do it. I'm not advising any

1283
01:15:23,399 --> 01:15:26,119
of this stuff. I'm just sharing you what my journey

1284
01:15:26,119 --> 01:15:30,800
and my experience was consumed it. I got people around

1285
01:15:30,840 --> 01:15:34,319
me at this ceremony, this female shaman, the shaman is is,

1286
01:15:34,399 --> 01:15:37,760
She's singing songs and doing her ekeros and all this stuff.

1287
01:15:37,960 --> 01:15:41,119
I got people crawling around the floor acting like jaguars,

1288
01:15:41,520 --> 01:15:44,279
and I'm not feeling anything. So I asked for another cup,

1289
01:15:44,520 --> 01:15:46,359
and I asked for another cup. I do three cups

1290
01:15:46,359 --> 01:15:50,960
of ayahuasca. The trip comes on, and the realization I

1291
01:15:51,000 --> 01:15:54,800
had was if we're going to be judged, which almost

1292
01:15:54,840 --> 01:15:57,880
every religious mythology has some type of judgment after death,

1293
01:15:58,319 --> 01:16:01,039
well it only makes sense of God took on human form,

1294
01:16:01,439 --> 01:16:04,600
and so I became fully convinced in my heart that

1295
01:16:04,720 --> 01:16:09,159
Jesus Christ was a historical person and it was God incarnate.

1296
01:16:09,800 --> 01:16:12,239
And then the second realization was, if I want to

1297
01:16:12,279 --> 01:16:14,279
be like Christ, it's time for me to build something

1298
01:16:14,319 --> 01:16:17,760
and stop consuming consuming drugs, consuming the ideas of McKenna,

1299
01:16:17,840 --> 01:16:23,560
consuming culture. And I felt compelled to create Church with

1300
01:16:23,640 --> 01:16:28,840
Eternal Logos. So that was in July of two thousand nineteen,

1301
01:16:29,319 --> 01:16:32,600
and then in August of twenty nineteen, I launched Church

1302
01:16:32,640 --> 01:16:35,960
of Eternal Logos, and in September twenty nineteen, I move

1303
01:16:36,000 --> 01:16:38,359
home from Berkeley and try to begin finishing all my

1304
01:16:38,359 --> 01:16:42,520
PhD stuff while starting the new YouTube channel where I'm

1305
01:16:42,520 --> 01:16:44,920
no longer doing what I'm doing. I'm producing my own

1306
01:16:45,039 --> 01:16:47,359
content and I'm trying to present it from the lens

1307
01:16:47,399 --> 01:16:50,359
of Orthodoxy. And so once I moved back to Indiana

1308
01:16:50,399 --> 01:16:53,640
in September twenty nineteen, that's when I got became a

1309
01:16:54,079 --> 01:16:58,199
catechumen in the Orthodox Church and never done that since.

1310
01:16:58,319 --> 01:17:04,239
So did psychedelics lead me to Christ? Not really? If anything,

1311
01:17:04,439 --> 01:17:07,520
I almost felt convicted when I got into those spaces

1312
01:17:07,600 --> 01:17:11,079
the last two times I did it, one reaffirming Christianity

1313
01:17:11,119 --> 01:17:13,439
is actually fulfilling the things that I believe to be true.

1314
01:17:13,760 --> 01:17:16,159
And then the second one, it was time for me

1315
01:17:16,199 --> 01:17:19,199
to start my own business and actually become a man.

1316
01:17:19,520 --> 01:17:22,279
And if Christ was you know, if he built things,

1317
01:17:22,279 --> 01:17:24,720
if he was a carpenter, it was time for me

1318
01:17:24,760 --> 01:17:27,600
to begin to build something. And the iron the irony

1319
01:17:27,600 --> 01:17:31,079
of that experience is that the ayahuasca stopped and this,

1320
01:17:31,319 --> 01:17:33,359
you know, and people said, oh, that's because you were

1321
01:17:33,399 --> 01:17:36,399
doing too much drugs. Man, your serotonin levels were no

1322
01:17:36,640 --> 01:17:38,920
we this had been a long long period before I'd

1323
01:17:38,920 --> 01:17:41,840
done psychedelics before this. I'm very aware of how all

1324
01:17:41,880 --> 01:17:44,439
that stuff worked. We even did like the spiritual fasting

1325
01:17:44,520 --> 01:17:47,960
before the ceremony, but it shut down like there was

1326
01:17:48,000 --> 01:17:51,199
no trip at all. I was completely sober. The shaman

1327
01:17:51,319 --> 01:17:53,840
was surprised. She couldn't believe it because I was telling her, look,

1328
01:17:54,199 --> 01:17:55,920
I'm not feeling it anymore, and she's like, you just

1329
01:17:55,960 --> 01:17:57,920
had three cups, like I can't. I'm not going to

1330
01:17:57,960 --> 01:18:01,479
give you any more. And then there's a second night.

1331
01:18:01,520 --> 01:18:03,680
There's in the second night, it just didn't work. And

1332
01:18:03,720 --> 01:18:05,880
so to me that was God telling me, look, you

1333
01:18:05,920 --> 01:18:07,920
got to stop doing this stuff. And to me, it

1334
01:18:07,960 --> 01:18:10,800
was almost like a mystical experience in the sense that

1335
01:18:10,800 --> 01:18:14,079
the drugs didn't work, because that had never ever happened before.

1336
01:18:14,479 --> 01:18:18,600
So did Christ meet me in that state? Potentially? I

1337
01:18:18,600 --> 01:18:21,680
think he can meet people anywhere. Do psychedelics take you

1338
01:18:21,720 --> 01:18:22,920
towards Christ? Absolutely not.

1339
01:18:24,680 --> 01:18:27,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, I would say it reminds me of you know,

1340
01:18:27,479 --> 01:18:29,880
you and I both have been on your Mate Tooms's

1341
01:18:30,039 --> 01:18:32,439
channel and podcasts, and you know, we did some pretty

1342
01:18:32,439 --> 01:18:35,119
in depth interviews with him, and you know, there was

1343
01:18:35,119 --> 01:18:38,720
a period where he was really interested in Orthodoxy and

1344
01:18:38,800 --> 01:18:41,119
Christianity and it was because he says he had had

1345
01:18:41,159 --> 01:18:43,840
this really dark sort of demonic trip and he was

1346
01:18:43,880 --> 01:18:47,359
seeing you know, demonic entities and stuff like that, and

1347
01:18:47,439 --> 01:18:49,439
you know, and then he ended up for whatever reason.

1348
01:18:49,479 --> 01:18:51,199
I'm not knocking the dude, it's just you know, he

1349
01:18:51,319 --> 01:18:54,159
ended up just not continuing in the direction of Christianity.

1350
01:18:54,239 --> 01:18:56,560
So you know, even when you have these sort of

1351
01:18:57,000 --> 01:19:00,119
bad trips or intense experiences and you think you're seeing

1352
01:19:00,159 --> 01:19:03,279
spiritual realities or you're experiencing demons, I'm not saying or not.

1353
01:19:03,319 --> 01:19:08,720
I'm just saying, like, these trips kind of I would

1354
01:19:08,720 --> 01:19:10,239
take them with a grain of salt, as I guess

1355
01:19:10,239 --> 01:19:12,000
what I'm trying to say in terms of drug trips.

1356
01:19:12,039 --> 01:19:14,119
I've had bad trips. My first trip was a really

1357
01:19:14,119 --> 01:19:18,039
bad trip. It didn't immediately make me, you know, go

1358
01:19:18,119 --> 01:19:21,760
to church or seek out Christianity maybe a year or

1359
01:19:21,800 --> 01:19:25,079
two later because of a bad trip and sort of

1360
01:19:26,279 --> 01:19:28,720
I guess I would say in my situation, it did

1361
01:19:28,800 --> 01:19:31,359
kind of wake me up to spiritual realities, but I

1362
01:19:31,399 --> 01:19:34,760
wasn't moving the direction of Christianity after it. Maybe it

1363
01:19:34,800 --> 01:19:39,159
did make me start asking some questions that I maybe

1364
01:19:39,199 --> 01:19:44,319
wouldn't have asked before doing LSD, but I definitely wouldn't

1365
01:19:44,359 --> 01:19:51,319
attribute conversion to drugs. Panos, what's up? Panosis? For five dollars?

1366
01:19:51,359 --> 01:19:56,399
Congratulations on the PhD. Cotel, you guys should consider a

1367
01:19:56,439 --> 01:20:02,000
collaboration with doctor Nathan Jacobs. Know he's buddies with FDA.

1368
01:20:02,920 --> 01:20:05,159
I'm just not yet. I haven't met him, we haven't spoken.

1369
01:20:05,560 --> 01:20:08,159
I'm sure he's a cool dude. I think the conversations

1370
01:20:08,159 --> 01:20:10,640
that you guys would have would be beefy. What are

1371
01:20:10,680 --> 01:20:15,079
your recommendations for people outside of academia in terms of

1372
01:20:15,960 --> 01:20:20,800
something to look into to say, sharp informed and constantly learning.

1373
01:20:20,880 --> 01:20:24,399
I'm sure Kotel would recommend his course which is linked

1374
01:20:24,640 --> 01:20:26,960
Logos Academy, which is linked in the show description. Why

1375
01:20:27,000 --> 01:20:28,199
don't you go ahead and tell us a little bit

1376
01:20:28,239 --> 01:20:29,920
about that, because I do want to get back into

1377
01:20:30,000 --> 01:20:32,199
some more of the topics. I want to talk about

1378
01:20:32,239 --> 01:20:35,319
Esslin Institute. You know, you've recommended a lot of books

1379
01:20:35,359 --> 01:20:38,279
over the years, uh, and one of those that I

1380
01:20:38,279 --> 01:20:41,840
got was this history of Esselin that you recommended. Most

1381
01:20:41,880 --> 01:20:44,159
of the books that you mentioned on these topics, I

1382
01:20:44,199 --> 01:20:47,279
do end up buying this one. Maybe is not for

1383
01:20:47,399 --> 01:20:50,039
people trying to stay up on top of things. Just

1384
01:20:50,039 --> 01:20:52,239
just a book that I that I heard you mentioned

1385
01:20:52,239 --> 01:20:53,640
that I wanted to get, but.

1386
01:20:53,680 --> 01:20:55,840
Speaker 2: I would argue it's the it's the bet now. It's

1387
01:20:55,840 --> 01:20:59,960
written by doctor Jeffrey Kripele who runs a gnostic Esoteria

1388
01:21:00,199 --> 01:21:02,399
mystical institute out of Rice. It's kind of one of

1389
01:21:02,439 --> 01:21:04,399
the only programs in the US like it. There's a

1390
01:21:04,439 --> 01:21:06,520
few in Europe where you can get like a PhD.

1391
01:21:06,640 --> 01:21:09,800
And Eric Davis, who's a famous author. He was like

1392
01:21:09,840 --> 01:21:12,000
the last one to interview Terence McKenna. He just got

1393
01:21:12,000 --> 01:21:16,000
a PhD from Rice under doctor Kreipel. Jeffrey Kriipel was

1394
01:21:16,079 --> 01:21:21,279
asked by Michael Murphy, the founder of the Esslin Institute,

1395
01:21:21,319 --> 01:21:24,239
to write the sort of ultimate historical overview. And so

1396
01:21:24,880 --> 01:21:27,560
if you're an academic like Jay or myself, it's a

1397
01:21:27,680 --> 01:21:30,000
useful book. Not that you agree with like how the

1398
01:21:30,000 --> 01:21:32,520
author is presenting it, but it's really useful in seeing

1399
01:21:32,560 --> 01:21:35,079
the historical trajectory and narrative of that institute.

1400
01:21:35,479 --> 01:21:37,920
Speaker 1: Are you going to take your thesis and put it

1401
01:21:37,960 --> 01:21:41,479
into something readable or like, what's what is there a book?

1402
01:21:41,520 --> 01:21:43,399
Maybe there was a different book that you would recommend

1403
01:21:43,399 --> 01:21:48,760
that's like the best overview of like hallucinogens and spirituality

1404
01:21:48,920 --> 01:21:50,560
and what do you think?

1405
01:21:53,159 --> 01:21:58,000
Speaker 2: I have not found a great overview of Most of

1406
01:21:58,039 --> 01:22:00,960
the work that gets into psychedelics is almost always written

1407
01:22:00,960 --> 01:22:06,239
by somebody who so it's very biased most of the stuff,

1408
01:22:06,279 --> 01:22:09,279
and even amongst the scholars, because in academia most people

1409
01:22:09,319 --> 01:22:12,479
don't engage with this stuff unless they're like closely associated

1410
01:22:12,479 --> 01:22:15,520
with the practices of it. Almost every PhD that's involved

1411
01:22:15,520 --> 01:22:22,079
with psychedelic studies is themselves a psychoonot. So my plan

1412
01:22:22,239 --> 01:22:27,039
is to eventually write some type of book, be it

1413
01:22:28,000 --> 01:22:30,960
about one hundred and fifty to one hundred pages, it's

1414
01:22:31,000 --> 01:22:35,319
for an average reader on a literal historical overview of

1415
01:22:35,359 --> 01:22:39,800
these substances and their relationship to mysticism and how it

1416
01:22:40,000 --> 01:22:42,680
then emerges in the twentieth century and kind of take

1417
01:22:42,720 --> 01:22:44,880
you up to the twenty first century. It's really just

1418
01:22:44,920 --> 01:22:47,520
a historical overview. I do plan on doing that. I

1419
01:22:47,600 --> 01:22:51,880
have a paper titled Technologies of Transcendence that I wrote

1420
01:22:51,960 --> 01:22:54,000
during the PhD program that I want to rework and

1421
01:22:54,039 --> 01:22:59,600
expand on for that, and it's basically arguing that drugs

1422
01:22:59,680 --> 01:23:03,439
are form of technology for mystical transcendence. I'm not arguing

1423
01:23:03,439 --> 01:23:05,000
in favor of them. I'm just and then I just

1424
01:23:05,079 --> 01:23:07,960
document from the ancient period. The paper only goes up

1425
01:23:08,000 --> 01:23:13,199
to Alistair Crowley, but adding a whole another chapter, a

1426
01:23:13,239 --> 01:23:16,279
whole couple sections on the twentieth century. Yeah, that's something

1427
01:23:16,279 --> 01:23:19,479
that I want to do, and I'll probably make that

1428
01:23:19,640 --> 01:23:22,560
turn that into a course for the Logos Academy. Eventually

1429
01:23:24,680 --> 01:23:25,880
you're muted. I can't hear you.

1430
01:23:27,239 --> 01:23:29,239
Speaker 1: Tell us about Logos Academy. I'm looking at it over

1431
01:23:29,239 --> 01:23:32,880
here the link long form lectures Private Breakdown's Philosophical Training.

1432
01:23:33,720 --> 01:23:35,880
What are you envisioning here? Is there a course already up?

1433
01:23:35,880 --> 01:23:38,600
I see you've got already eighty six Members's the what's

1434
01:23:38,640 --> 01:23:40,880
the overall plan? Here?

1435
01:23:42,399 --> 01:23:45,920
Speaker 2: So the idea is this is a men's community. So

1436
01:23:46,039 --> 01:23:49,399
I'm sorry women out there, this is for men and

1437
01:23:49,479 --> 01:23:52,159
it's a male only space. And the idea of the

1438
01:23:52,199 --> 01:23:55,279
Logos Academy obviously I've you know, I don't run a church,

1439
01:23:55,319 --> 01:23:57,479
but my YouTube channels called Church of the Eternal Logos.

1440
01:23:57,479 --> 01:24:01,079
It's just a theological perspective from Logo on various topics,

1441
01:24:01,439 --> 01:24:06,239
and Logos Academy is trying to basically build an environment

1442
01:24:06,520 --> 01:24:10,479
for men, young men, but most of the people in

1443
01:24:10,520 --> 01:24:14,520
there already like established men where we can talk about

1444
01:24:14,600 --> 01:24:18,760
and discuss anything, and I can then utilize my academic

1445
01:24:18,880 --> 01:24:24,079
or educational skills for that community specifically. So the first

1446
01:24:24,079 --> 01:24:25,680
thing that we're going to do, I mean right now,

1447
01:24:25,720 --> 01:24:28,600
what we have is I have all my exclusive members

1448
01:24:28,640 --> 01:24:30,760
content and part two streams that I actually have to

1449
01:24:30,760 --> 01:24:32,439
think Jay for because he's the one that gave me

1450
01:24:32,479 --> 01:24:34,960
the idea, and then we actually need to think Jamie

1451
01:24:34,960 --> 01:24:38,439
because she's the one that gave him the idea. But

1452
01:24:38,960 --> 01:24:41,760
all those streams that I've done, those are over on

1453
01:24:41,800 --> 01:24:46,039
the Logos Academy now much more accessible and easily to access.

1454
01:24:46,760 --> 01:24:50,159
The goal is for to take the dissertation, which is

1455
01:24:50,279 --> 01:24:53,239
very very academic. This is not a mass reader. This

1456
01:24:53,319 --> 01:24:58,840
is like three hundred pages of DNSE academic intellectual history

1457
01:24:59,039 --> 01:25:03,760
on the relationship of technology from really the medieval period,

1458
01:25:03,920 --> 01:25:07,600
and it's tied with millenarianism and how transhumanism. I make

1459
01:25:07,640 --> 01:25:12,800
the argument actually emerges out of a Christian ethos beginning

1460
01:25:12,840 --> 01:25:16,800
with John Scoto's Irregina. He was one of the court

1461
01:25:16,800 --> 01:25:19,960
philosophers for the Carolingian Empire right in the middle of

1462
01:25:20,000 --> 01:25:22,359
the eight hundreds, and he was a neil Platonist. He

1463
01:25:22,399 --> 01:25:25,479
was an Irish Neil Platonist, and he developed this idea

1464
01:25:26,239 --> 01:25:29,279
that the mechanical arts because during the Carolingian era there

1465
01:25:29,319 --> 01:25:31,880
was referred to as the Carolingian Renaissance, where like the

1466
01:25:32,439 --> 01:25:36,439
plow and the watermill and these things emerge as technologies

1467
01:25:36,479 --> 01:25:39,239
that allowed labor to be easier. And of course during

1468
01:25:39,279 --> 01:25:41,640
that period you have the rise of the Benedictines of

1469
01:25:41,680 --> 01:25:44,880
the Ara at Lebora, tying a sort of spirituality with work.

1470
01:25:45,560 --> 01:25:49,640
And I argue that John Scott's Iregina then presented that

1471
01:25:49,760 --> 01:25:53,960
technology was going to redeem all the lost attributes of Adam.

1472
01:25:54,520 --> 01:25:58,600
So Adam was a perfect spiritual person and what everything

1473
01:25:58,640 --> 01:26:01,840
he lost to become the rupted man. Technology was going

1474
01:26:01,880 --> 01:26:04,880
to redeem in us. And then I trace that concept

1475
01:26:05,039 --> 01:26:10,359
and the dispositions towards technology through people like you of

1476
01:26:10,359 --> 01:26:14,880
Saint Victor Roger Bacon. And this gets tied with Yakima

1477
01:26:14,920 --> 01:26:17,880
Fiore's Millenarianism, where he believed this Third Age, the Age

1478
01:26:17,880 --> 01:26:22,119
of the Holy Spirit. Sacraments were no longer important, the

1479
01:26:22,159 --> 01:26:25,199
priesthood was no longer Essentially, it's a form of Protestantism

1480
01:26:25,239 --> 01:26:27,560
because it was the Age of Holy Men. As long

1481
01:26:27,600 --> 01:26:31,239
as you were virtuous and spiritual, the Holy Spirit would

1482
01:26:31,239 --> 01:26:33,760
inform you. And this was going to be a utopian age.

1483
01:26:33,800 --> 01:26:36,520
It was kind of a millinery and disposition. Well that

1484
01:26:36,640 --> 01:26:40,199
literally informs somebody like Francis Bacon when he writes The

1485
01:26:40,199 --> 01:26:43,520
New Atlantis where he develops a new understanding of science

1486
01:26:44,079 --> 01:26:49,880
and he does away with the Aristotilian understanding of categories

1487
01:26:49,880 --> 01:26:52,359
and logic. Not that he's against that stuff, but he

1488
01:26:52,439 --> 01:26:55,399
presents a new utilitarian form of science, that science and

1489
01:26:55,479 --> 01:27:00,159
knowledge is all about practical utility. And I traced that

1490
01:27:00,239 --> 01:27:03,119
into then the founding of the Royal Society, the founding

1491
01:27:03,199 --> 01:27:06,319
of speculative Freemasonry, and the rise of the engineer. You

1492
01:27:06,399 --> 01:27:10,520
get people like Henry Saint Simone and Augusta Kompt where

1493
01:27:10,640 --> 01:27:15,760
now you have this positivist scientific philosophy which is still millenarian.

1494
01:27:16,159 --> 01:27:19,279
And then I tie that with America being the city

1495
01:27:19,319 --> 01:27:22,760
on the Hill, and that many people theologians, whether it

1496
01:27:22,840 --> 01:27:26,680
be John Edwards moving forward, believe that America was going

1497
01:27:26,720 --> 01:27:29,399
to be the millenary and kingdom. And so that dissertation

1498
01:27:29,520 --> 01:27:32,840
traces that idea into then contemporary transhumanism as a form

1499
01:27:32,880 --> 01:27:37,720
of post secular deification Orthodox theosis. And then I demonstrate

1500
01:27:38,159 --> 01:27:41,239
how both of these are basically two competing narratives coming

1501
01:27:41,279 --> 01:27:43,960
out of the Christian world regarding deification. One is pre

1502
01:27:44,079 --> 01:27:48,159
modern the Orthodox theosis, which maintains the old metaphysical order

1503
01:27:48,399 --> 01:27:51,720
and essentially Aristotelian categories and all this stuff. Where the

1504
01:27:51,760 --> 01:27:56,079
new one is coming out of this historical thread where

1505
01:27:56,119 --> 01:27:59,800
technology and existential pursuits are going to lead us towards

1506
01:27:59,800 --> 01:28:04,279
you topia, and that orthodox he views transhumanism in its

1507
01:28:04,279 --> 01:28:07,079
own eschological terms related to the Antichrist.

1508
01:28:07,159 --> 01:28:09,640
Speaker 1: Yes, well, we both you and I both covered in

1509
01:28:09,680 --> 01:28:14,279
our videos the Peter Teal interview, where Teal seems to

1510
01:28:15,199 --> 01:28:18,680
seems to sort of take Christianity as this allegory for

1511
01:28:18,920 --> 01:28:22,640
technological transhumanism and immortality. That's kind of my reading of

1512
01:28:23,199 --> 01:28:26,640
that weird interview, and he mentioned what was a Renee

1513
01:28:26,920 --> 01:28:31,199
Garard I've not read. I have the book, somebody recommended it,

1514
01:28:31,239 --> 01:28:33,319
but I have never gotten to it yet. So I'm

1515
01:28:33,319 --> 01:28:36,880
assuming that he just sort of takes the Christianity in

1516
01:28:36,920 --> 01:28:38,680
this sort of a symbolic way, kind of a Jordan

1517
01:28:38,720 --> 01:28:39,560
Peterson style.

1518
01:28:39,720 --> 01:28:44,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, yeah. And so to wrap up that

1519
01:28:44,520 --> 01:28:48,439
whole dissertation, that is basically an orthodox Christian critique of

1520
01:28:48,479 --> 01:28:53,920
transhumanism utilizing the methodology of intellectual history. That's what that is,

1521
01:28:53,960 --> 01:28:56,920
and my goal is to have that published by the

1522
01:28:57,039 --> 01:29:00,399
end of August. So the Logos Academy that is a

1523
01:29:00,439 --> 01:29:03,359
separate project obviously tied related to it, and that may

1524
01:29:03,479 --> 01:29:05,359
turn into courses. But the first thing we're going to

1525
01:29:05,399 --> 01:29:08,319
do in the Logos Academy we have bi monthly meetings

1526
01:29:09,119 --> 01:29:12,439
where we have free form conversations and then we just

1527
01:29:12,479 --> 01:29:14,079
had one last night, and the members want to do

1528
01:29:14,479 --> 01:29:19,560
like topic themed two hour conversation, So maybe I post

1529
01:29:19,600 --> 01:29:21,840
an article or something and then if people want to

1530
01:29:21,880 --> 01:29:23,319
read it, you don't have to read it, but you

1531
01:29:23,359 --> 01:29:25,119
can then join the meeting and we can talk about

1532
01:29:25,119 --> 01:29:28,279
things like a classroom setting. And then we have a

1533
01:29:28,279 --> 01:29:31,319
fitness group that kind of holds people accountable for fitness, diet,

1534
01:29:31,439 --> 01:29:34,199
spiritual life, and then career or life goals. And so

1535
01:29:34,239 --> 01:29:37,079
those are the three meetings we do every month, and

1536
01:29:37,159 --> 01:29:40,000
my goal is to create The first course will be

1537
01:29:40,039 --> 01:29:42,920
a history on the logos, beginning with the pre Socratics,

1538
01:29:43,000 --> 01:29:46,840
people like Heraclitis and this idea of logos, moving into

1539
01:29:47,119 --> 01:29:49,239
eventually the Gospel of John and the ending of the

1540
01:29:49,279 --> 01:29:53,640
Neoplatonic academies, and that will be tied with My goal

1541
01:29:53,680 --> 01:29:56,920
is to create an ebook related to that, and then

1542
01:29:56,960 --> 01:29:59,720
another course on the history of metaphysics essentially from the

1543
01:29:59,760 --> 01:30:03,880
Midia Evil period to the postmodern turn in the twentieth century,

1544
01:30:04,359 --> 01:30:07,359
and that is the kind of continuation of the same conversation.

1545
01:30:07,439 --> 01:30:09,119
And then I want to build out a course that

1546
01:30:09,359 --> 01:30:12,159
is going to go into deeper to regards to that ebook.

1547
01:30:12,720 --> 01:30:16,520
So those are kind of the two big projects that

1548
01:30:16,560 --> 01:30:19,800
we talked about last night in the group that I

1549
01:30:19,840 --> 01:30:21,319
want to try to get done by the end of

1550
01:30:21,319 --> 01:30:23,840
this year. So by the end of twenty twenty five,

1551
01:30:23,920 --> 01:30:27,079
there should be two full courses on the history of

1552
01:30:27,119 --> 01:30:29,800
logos the history of metaphysics, tied with ebooks that are

1553
01:30:29,840 --> 01:30:33,239
kind of introductions to those topics, and then Part two

1554
01:30:33,319 --> 01:30:36,439
streams exclusive videos all my show notes or study guides

1555
01:30:36,479 --> 01:30:39,840
are available for the group, and then of course our

1556
01:30:40,399 --> 01:30:43,560
three meetings each month, plus sometimes Q and a's. So

1557
01:30:43,800 --> 01:30:45,319
that's kind of what we do at the group, and

1558
01:30:45,439 --> 01:30:47,880
it's kind of themed like an ancient academy. I mean

1559
01:30:47,920 --> 01:30:50,199
we want I mean last night, some of the guys

1560
01:30:50,239 --> 01:30:56,880
are like professional powerlifters, and it's an interesting amalgamation of

1561
01:30:56,880 --> 01:30:59,600
different guys and it's just a place for us to

1562
01:30:59,600 --> 01:31:02,119
come to get other as you know, adults, as men,

1563
01:31:02,319 --> 01:31:04,439
and be able to learn and discuss things that you

1564
01:31:04,479 --> 01:31:05,600
really can't with other people.

1565
01:31:06,960 --> 01:31:10,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's good to reclaim men's spaces. That's such a

1566
01:31:10,359 --> 01:31:14,640
neglected thing given you know, the dominance of feminism in

1567
01:31:14,680 --> 01:31:16,600
our era. I want to remind you guys that I

1568
01:31:16,600 --> 01:31:19,439
will be speaking to the third annual Ludwell Orthodox Fellowship

1569
01:31:19,479 --> 01:31:21,840
Conference in Stafford, Virginia. This is outside of d C,

1570
01:31:22,000 --> 01:31:24,319
so if you're in the DC region, this is September sixth,

1571
01:31:24,640 --> 01:31:27,880
twenty twenty five. I will be speaking there along with

1572
01:31:28,359 --> 01:31:34,079
Metropolitan Jonah Jim Jatras, our good buddy, Buck Johnson, our

1573
01:31:34,079 --> 01:31:39,000
good friend Proto Decon, doctor Patrick, Father Turbo, and some

1574
01:31:39,039 --> 01:31:42,119
other priests and people I'm not familiar with. I'm sure

1575
01:31:42,119 --> 01:31:43,840
they're all great people I'm just not familiar with, and

1576
01:31:43,880 --> 01:31:47,039
of course Rebecca that runs Dissident Media. It's going to

1577
01:31:47,119 --> 01:31:52,119
be a great conference Saturday, September sixth, twenty twenty five, Stafford, Virginia,

1578
01:31:52,159 --> 01:31:53,920
and you can get the tickets in the link in

1579
01:31:53,960 --> 01:31:56,319
the show description in the link right there. We'll also

1580
01:31:56,319 --> 01:32:00,600
be having a upcoming conference here in Florida. Again. This

1581
01:32:00,640 --> 01:32:05,479
will be our second conference at my church here in Florida.

1582
01:32:06,000 --> 01:32:08,600
The first conference that we did on Iconography with Father

1583
01:32:08,640 --> 01:32:11,920
Deacon and Father Vladimir was a big hit. We had

1584
01:32:11,920 --> 01:32:14,000
a lot of a lot of fun. We had a

1585
01:32:14,079 --> 01:32:16,439
nice crowd. So we're going to have an even bigger conference,

1586
01:32:16,479 --> 01:32:19,520
bigger crowd this year. This year's focus, I don't have

1587
01:32:19,560 --> 01:32:22,199
the ticket page up. It will be in November, just

1588
01:32:22,279 --> 01:32:25,039
let you guys know. So we do have plenty of time.

1589
01:32:25,159 --> 01:32:28,079
But the theme this year will be Athens in Jerusalem.

1590
01:32:28,600 --> 01:32:33,279
So we're going to be contrasting these two approaches to

1591
01:32:34,119 --> 01:32:39,439
reality to society civilization. One of course focusing on human

1592
01:32:39,479 --> 01:32:44,039
reasoning and philosophy, and of course Jerusalem focusing on the

1593
01:32:44,079 --> 01:32:47,720
person of Christ, the Messiah and divine revelations. So what

1594
01:32:47,840 --> 01:32:51,720
is the relationship. Is it an antipropy, is it an

1595
01:32:51,720 --> 01:32:56,880
antithesis as Tratolian said, What have Athens to do with Jerusalem?

1596
01:32:57,159 --> 01:33:00,119
Or is there a possibility of overlap or or what

1597
01:33:00,760 --> 01:33:04,159
that will be? The focus will also be getting into aesthetics.

1598
01:33:04,159 --> 01:33:07,319
Of course, by the Vladimir lectures on art history. He's

1599
01:33:07,319 --> 01:33:12,760
an art history teacher. He focuses on the techniques and

1600
01:33:12,760 --> 01:33:17,520
styles of the Renaissance masters and how they put certain

1601
01:33:17,560 --> 01:33:22,640
structures and geometric patterns and forms into their works, and

1602
01:33:23,000 --> 01:33:29,279
that also of course influences later Russian art styles. Dance commodore,

1603
01:33:30,399 --> 01:33:33,880
no way we did that one textas became a member

1604
01:33:33,960 --> 01:33:37,479
shout out to textas Jonathan Britton two dollars. This is

1605
01:33:37,520 --> 01:33:41,159
a kind of a complicated question. Basically, he asks what

1606
01:33:41,359 --> 01:33:50,800
is the Orthodox Church's idea on THC, CBD, silo, cybin,

1607
01:33:50,960 --> 01:33:53,960
et cetera. In short, I will answer it as saying

1608
01:33:54,039 --> 01:34:00,000
that I think that anything can be medicinal, because every

1609
01:34:00,079 --> 01:34:04,119
thing that exists God created and created it good. But

1610
01:34:04,199 --> 01:34:08,000
any of those things could also be conceivably abused. This

1611
01:34:08,079 --> 01:34:10,439
is a great question though, that I'm gonna ask a Cotel.

1612
01:34:10,479 --> 01:34:17,079
I'll ask doctor dph is it are there any potential

1613
01:34:17,680 --> 01:34:22,399
medicinal usages for mushrooms and these kinds of things. I

1614
01:34:22,439 --> 01:34:26,000
know we have this maps thing going, which is I

1615
01:34:26,039 --> 01:34:29,319
think Soros funded. And I'm not talking about minor attracted persons.

1616
01:34:29,359 --> 01:34:32,079
I'm talking about a different things. The thing that has

1617
01:34:32,119 --> 01:34:35,880
to do with like studying hallucinogens. I would say, like

1618
01:34:36,119 --> 01:34:40,279
I knew a guy who was a severe alcoholic. He

1619
01:34:40,319 --> 01:34:41,640
was a good friend of mine from high school. He

1620
01:34:41,680 --> 01:34:43,880
ended up dying a couple of years ago, one of

1621
01:34:43,880 --> 01:34:47,399
my good friends, and I would say, like, in his case,

1622
01:34:47,479 --> 01:34:53,279
he's at such an advanced state of extreme alcohol addiction

1623
01:34:53,439 --> 01:34:59,880
that I don't think some extreme measure, like perhaps some

1624
01:35:00,119 --> 01:35:03,720
program that might have utilized this to to help him

1625
01:35:04,479 --> 01:35:07,840
break free of extreme alcoholic addiction. Maybe in some of

1626
01:35:07,840 --> 01:35:11,920
these extreme cases, something like that could work. But doctor

1627
01:35:12,039 --> 01:35:13,399
David Patrick Harry, what do you think?

1628
01:35:15,520 --> 01:35:17,960
Speaker 2: I agree with you? It's that that's the always the

1629
01:35:18,000 --> 01:35:20,600
response whenever I do a stream on psychedelics, people in

1630
01:35:20,600 --> 01:35:22,960
the chat go, well, what about the John Hopkins research

1631
01:35:23,920 --> 01:35:27,880
and the point is that these things are nuanced, and

1632
01:35:27,960 --> 01:35:34,279
so has psilocybin or MBMA shown signs of effectiveness regarding

1633
01:35:34,319 --> 01:35:39,720
PTSD or severe forms of addiction even I begain, Yeah,

1634
01:35:40,039 --> 01:35:42,920
they have. Well I thought you just told me that

1635
01:35:43,000 --> 01:35:46,600
these things are spiritually you know, problematic. Why Well, clearly

1636
01:35:46,600 --> 01:35:48,920
it's helping people. Well, as I would argue, is that

1637
01:35:48,960 --> 01:35:52,319
they do dissolve boundaries. And if you have a boundary

1638
01:35:52,479 --> 01:35:56,760
due to post traumatic stress disorder that you're constantly reliving,

1639
01:35:56,800 --> 01:35:59,359
you're constantly moving through every single time, every time a

1640
01:35:59,399 --> 01:36:02,239
firework goes off. That Yeah, it has shown that if

1641
01:36:02,279 --> 01:36:04,279
you get into these altered states and you sort of

1642
01:36:04,359 --> 01:36:08,000
kind of dissolve these boundaries and have a phenomenological experience

1643
01:36:08,000 --> 01:36:10,560
where you're able to sort of move beyond them when

1644
01:36:10,600 --> 01:36:15,439
you become sober, you're not as throttled with that same

1645
01:36:15,520 --> 01:36:20,039
stress and that trauma. So are they beneficial in that way? Yeah?

1646
01:36:20,359 --> 01:36:23,920
I could see how somebody who's in extreme mental anguish

1647
01:36:24,000 --> 01:36:27,319
due to trauma that this might be beneficial. Same thing

1648
01:36:27,359 --> 01:36:31,119
with potential CBD use. I mean, obviously that's not anee

1649
01:36:31,159 --> 01:36:36,800
grating THHC. You know, everybody points to glaucoma or appetite

1650
01:36:36,800 --> 01:36:39,720
suppression for people that are cancer patients. Yeah, I could

1651
01:36:39,760 --> 01:36:42,680
see how that could be beneficial. At the same time,

1652
01:36:43,439 --> 01:36:46,640
every time you alter your consciousness, you open yourself up

1653
01:36:47,000 --> 01:36:51,159
to spiritual warfare. I mean, as orthodox, we're being inundated

1654
01:36:51,159 --> 01:36:54,439
with thoughts that aren't entirely are all the time. When

1655
01:36:54,439 --> 01:36:58,960
you dissolve the ability of self awareness and even recognize

1656
01:36:59,000 --> 01:37:01,319
things that are infiltrating your mind, you are way more

1657
01:37:01,359 --> 01:37:05,199
susceptible to believing and falling victim to prelast than ever before.

1658
01:37:05,560 --> 01:37:09,000
So they are spiritually dangerous, even if there are potential

1659
01:37:09,039 --> 01:37:12,800
medical applications in certain circumstances. But just because there are

1660
01:37:12,880 --> 01:37:16,800
potential benefits doesn't mean that that should be a free

1661
01:37:16,840 --> 01:37:20,920
pass for your own consumption or use because you're self medicating.

1662
01:37:23,039 --> 01:37:25,159
If you have a really strong tide to these things

1663
01:37:25,199 --> 01:37:26,840
and you find it hard to give them up, well

1664
01:37:26,840 --> 01:37:28,520
there's probably a deeper problem there.

1665
01:37:31,640 --> 01:37:35,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, let's see. Pano says again five dollars. Thank you guys.

1666
01:37:36,319 --> 01:37:38,680
Listening to you guys talk about this. I'm reminded about

1667
01:37:38,720 --> 01:37:46,039
the horrors of narcissistic abuse, where the victims are made

1668
01:37:46,159 --> 01:37:50,520
to doubt their perceptions of reality. Would you say that

1669
01:37:50,560 --> 01:37:57,079
these substances destroy the gnomic will. I would say that

1670
01:37:57,439 --> 01:38:05,960
any addiction or any mind altering substance could conceivably maybe

1671
01:38:06,000 --> 01:38:11,439
not destroy the will, but enslave the will. M what

1672
01:38:11,439 --> 01:38:11,960
do you think?

1673
01:38:12,479 --> 01:38:15,560
Speaker 2: No, I totally agree. I mean anybody who smoked weed.

1674
01:38:15,600 --> 01:38:18,319
I had a bad habit through my twenties, smoked every

1675
01:38:18,319 --> 01:38:22,800
single day. Once you get sober, despite what a pothead

1676
01:38:22,800 --> 01:38:24,880
will tell you that, well, it helps me be creative,

1677
01:38:24,920 --> 01:38:27,359
it help it helps me come up with ideas. If

1678
01:38:27,399 --> 01:38:31,880
you're sober, you have a stronger drive for work, to

1679
01:38:31,920 --> 01:38:37,439
accomplish things, to achieve goals. That yeah, absolutely, it makes

1680
01:38:37,439 --> 01:38:41,000
you apathetic to some degree. And so if you're sober

1681
01:38:41,039 --> 01:38:43,760
and living a healthy life, I promise you the quality

1682
01:38:43,760 --> 01:38:46,920
of your work and the desire to actually accomplish something,

1683
01:38:46,920 --> 01:38:49,000
and your testosterone is going to go up. Marijuana is

1684
01:38:49,039 --> 01:38:51,479
a female plant. It lowers It's been shown to lower

1685
01:38:51,520 --> 01:38:52,439
your testosterone.

1686
01:38:56,279 --> 01:38:58,680
Speaker 1: I might have missed this super chat. A couple of

1687
01:38:58,760 --> 01:39:02,359
days ago. Jeff cast five dollars. American Eagle releases an

1688
01:39:02,359 --> 01:39:05,880
ad that isn't super gay, and people complain neat.

1689
01:39:07,560 --> 01:39:08,159
Speaker 2: Me and Eugene.

1690
01:39:08,199 --> 01:39:18,600
Speaker 1: I think we read that one. Let's see here here

1691
01:39:18,600 --> 01:39:23,159
we go storm the cat ten dollars. My dad's friend

1692
01:39:23,199 --> 01:39:26,359
and other friends have encountered witches in the woods. They

1693
01:39:26,359 --> 01:39:29,800
were standing in a circle, and there they had drawn

1694
01:39:29,920 --> 01:39:33,159
in the mud a circle, and there was a Ouiji board,

1695
01:39:33,239 --> 01:39:37,279
and they were moving in unnatural ways, and supposedly one

1696
01:39:37,279 --> 01:39:39,920
of them levitated, well, I would just stay away from

1697
01:39:39,960 --> 01:39:46,119
the witches. J Mal thirty dollars. Why would Kraljung think

1698
01:39:46,399 --> 01:39:49,880
Christianity rose out of a mythri cult? Do you think

1699
01:39:49,920 --> 01:39:55,960
Jordan Peterson believes that? Well? Um, I mean probably in

1700
01:39:55,960 --> 01:39:58,079
the case of kral Young, who I've read a decent

1701
01:39:58,079 --> 01:40:00,359
amount of kral Young, I think he probably was just

1702
01:40:00,479 --> 01:40:05,960
looking for alternative explanations and why he's settled on this

1703
01:40:05,960 --> 01:40:10,960
one or that one. Who knows? I think probably out

1704
01:40:11,000 --> 01:40:16,920
of just pride and academic, you know, arrogance. And I

1705
01:40:16,960 --> 01:40:19,640
would say maybe in Jordan Peterson's case, I don't know

1706
01:40:19,640 --> 01:40:23,880
if he thinks Christianity is mithra or not, but he

1707
01:40:24,039 --> 01:40:28,840
just still, you know, can't he can't bite the bullet

1708
01:40:28,920 --> 01:40:35,920
on Christianity in Toto. So what do you think.

1709
01:40:36,000 --> 01:40:38,800
Speaker 2: The phenomenon first launched off? I think there's a video

1710
01:40:39,760 --> 01:40:42,159
on my old YouTube channel before I became christian I

1711
01:40:42,159 --> 01:40:47,359
posted a video from Jordan Peterson essentially spouting the you

1712
01:40:47,359 --> 01:40:51,640
know this mushroom type theory related to Christianity, So I

1713
01:40:51,640 --> 01:40:54,560
can find it on my old YouTube channel. I can

1714
01:40:54,560 --> 01:40:55,279
find it download.

1715
01:40:55,399 --> 01:40:58,720
Speaker 1: So you're saying Peterson has in the past endorsed this

1716
01:40:58,840 --> 01:41:02,079
type of an allegro theory.

1717
01:41:02,760 --> 01:41:05,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, some type. I mean, it's been a while since

1718
01:41:05,680 --> 01:41:08,119
I watched it, but it was tied with the connection

1719
01:41:08,239 --> 01:41:15,000
between mushrooms and Christianity and essentially was promoting the benefits

1720
01:41:15,039 --> 01:41:19,560
of this sort of inebriating spirituality to enlighten oneself. And

1721
01:41:19,920 --> 01:41:23,600
he refers to the John Hopkins research and stuff like that,

1722
01:41:23,680 --> 01:41:27,720
but pulls basically from everybody that we've already discussed presently

1723
01:41:27,800 --> 01:41:31,079
about this sort of general theme of how Christianity may

1724
01:41:31,119 --> 01:41:37,760
be tied with inebriating substances. But maybe his opinion has changed.

1725
01:41:37,880 --> 01:41:41,159
I just remember downloading that and posting it like twenty seventeen,

1726
01:41:41,159 --> 01:41:43,199
and it was when he became popular. He had like

1727
01:41:43,359 --> 01:41:46,279
tons of videos already on his YouTube channel, and it

1728
01:41:46,319 --> 01:41:48,119
was an old video that I found on there. At

1729
01:41:48,119 --> 01:41:50,760
the time, I was into psychedelics and I thought, oh, wow, Peterson,

1730
01:41:51,079 --> 01:41:54,119
he knows what's going on. But now it makes you

1731
01:41:54,159 --> 01:41:58,439
think his gnostisism and his unwillingness actually identify as Christian.

1732
01:41:58,560 --> 01:42:00,840
It's like, Okay, maybe he's actually still in that camp.

1733
01:42:05,079 --> 01:42:07,640
Speaker 1: Santo's Bnacci is an insane person. I don't know what

1734
01:42:07,960 --> 01:42:10,319
people in the chat like, I don't know. You put

1735
01:42:10,319 --> 01:42:12,600
this topic in and and it just attracts like the

1736
01:42:12,640 --> 01:42:15,520
most ridiculous people in the jet. No, we don't deal

1737
01:42:15,560 --> 01:42:16,640
with insane people over here.

1738
01:42:20,119 --> 01:42:21,039
Speaker 2: Yeah. I remember.

1739
01:42:24,359 --> 01:42:26,960
Speaker 1: We went through on my channels quite a bit of

1740
01:42:27,039 --> 01:42:33,159
Jordan Peterson's Personality lectures, and in those there's a significant,

1741
01:42:33,399 --> 01:42:36,039
maybe an entire lecture on Christianity and the Trinity and

1742
01:42:36,079 --> 01:42:38,960
the person of Christ. And basically it was just Zeitgeist

1743
01:42:39,039 --> 01:42:43,239
level stuff that like Isis and Horace and Mary's Isis

1744
01:42:43,239 --> 01:42:47,119
and Jesus is the Son of Raw. It was like

1745
01:42:47,239 --> 01:42:50,880
Zeitgeist level stuff. So maybe he's still sort of hung

1746
01:42:50,960 --> 01:42:53,760
up in that mindset. I remember the when you debate

1747
01:42:53,800 --> 01:42:57,800
a z Zec in twenty nineteen or twenty twenty. You know,

1748
01:42:58,279 --> 01:43:02,840
Jesus isn't divine, but he's like this, he's like a

1749
01:43:02,960 --> 01:43:05,880
symbol for suffering and overcoming or something.

1750
01:43:06,000 --> 01:43:10,159
Speaker 2: Yeah, and he's like the the Adam Kadman of the

1751
01:43:10,319 --> 01:43:14,960
astrological cycle. So I remember Santos stuff. It's all tied

1752
01:43:15,000 --> 01:43:18,159
with this astrology. It's a mixture of like Jordan Maxwell

1753
01:43:18,680 --> 01:43:23,359
and you know a lot of this like New age spirituality.

1754
01:43:23,560 --> 01:43:26,279
So I haven't I haven't seen or heard of Santos

1755
01:43:26,319 --> 01:43:27,960
in a while. I'm not sure what what he what

1756
01:43:28,039 --> 01:43:33,279
he does, but his spirituality is a gnostic illuministic framework

1757
01:43:33,319 --> 01:43:36,239
where Christ is an archetype for who you're supposed to become,

1758
01:43:36,359 --> 01:43:39,359
and all the religions are pointing towards this perennial truth,

1759
01:43:39,439 --> 01:43:44,720
and that the zodiac is the the sort of ultimate

1760
01:43:44,800 --> 01:43:48,720
rubric to understand medicine and healing and and the passing

1761
01:43:48,760 --> 01:43:54,119
of seasons, time history, all these different things. So it is.

1762
01:43:57,439 --> 01:44:00,479
Speaker 1: We get I appreciate you guys being so supportive. It's

1763
01:44:00,520 --> 01:44:02,680
a good sign when we can't move along because there's

1764
01:44:02,680 --> 01:44:05,680
so many super chats. Appreciate that you guys are being

1765
01:44:05,880 --> 01:44:09,399
the beloved pay piggies that we appreciate. Involving double monkey

1766
01:44:09,399 --> 01:44:11,880
twenty dollars, I spoke to Charismatic. He said that God

1767
01:44:12,000 --> 01:44:15,399
sent him a dream about his knee surgery. He looked

1768
01:44:15,720 --> 01:44:19,359
for a doctor who agreed that he needed knee surgery. However,

1769
01:44:19,399 --> 01:44:21,520
the surgery didn't work. I asked him how he knew

1770
01:44:21,520 --> 01:44:24,840
the dream wasn't from the devil, and he didn't say anything. Yeah,

1771
01:44:24,880 --> 01:44:27,680
it's I mean, that's why in the Orthodox Church we

1772
01:44:27,800 --> 01:44:30,560
just don't focus and pay attention to this kind of

1773
01:44:30,560 --> 01:44:34,880
stuff because everybody in the charismatic world, and the Roman Tholicism,

1774
01:44:34,920 --> 01:44:38,279
by the way, has accepted charismaticism holds from the papacy down.

1775
01:44:38,680 --> 01:44:41,159
It just leads to everybody being diluted, and they follow

1776
01:44:41,199 --> 01:44:44,000
their dreams and their visions, which, as Jeremiah says, are

1777
01:44:44,039 --> 01:44:48,319
from their hearts and not from God. So exactly, any

1778
01:44:48,359 --> 01:44:50,920
thoughts on dreams and visions, And I mean, I think

1779
01:44:50,960 --> 01:44:53,560
psychedelics are a big part of prelest too, Like they

1780
01:44:53,600 --> 01:44:56,800
give you this like you think you're seeing these great insights,

1781
01:44:56,800 --> 01:45:00,359
and it's like, nah, dude, like the seven ten year

1782
01:45:00,399 --> 01:45:03,399
old staring at a candy wrapper realizing that reality is

1783
01:45:03,399 --> 01:45:05,720
all one is not some great mystical insight.

1784
01:45:06,119 --> 01:45:10,319
Speaker 2: Right, No, I agree. I think you know, just be

1785
01:45:10,439 --> 01:45:13,640
cautious at dreams. I've seen too many people, even Orthodox Christians,

1786
01:45:13,640 --> 01:45:18,239
try to make like ultimate conclusions from a dream. Obviously,

1787
01:45:18,279 --> 01:45:21,439
we know the prophet Daniel was able to interpret dreams,

1788
01:45:21,439 --> 01:45:24,840
so dreams do have some significance. But who are you.

1789
01:45:24,840 --> 01:45:28,319
You're not the prophet Daniel. You know your ability to

1790
01:45:28,399 --> 01:45:32,800
interpret the you know, the walking dog headed entity that

1791
01:45:32,840 --> 01:45:34,640
you encountered in your you don't know what that means,

1792
01:45:34,720 --> 01:45:35,520
so just stop.

1793
01:45:36,720 --> 01:45:39,039
Speaker 1: I think also, like probably Deacon says, like if if

1794
01:45:39,159 --> 01:45:41,840
if you were given dreams from God, from the spirit

1795
01:45:41,920 --> 01:45:44,760
or something like that, like you would be interpreting this

1796
01:45:45,479 --> 01:45:48,800
in the context of your spiritual father kind of helping

1797
01:45:48,800 --> 01:45:51,560
you in guiding you, and He's gonna not let you

1798
01:45:51,960 --> 01:45:56,039
be diluted or fall into some you know, prelust, So

1799
01:45:56,079 --> 01:45:57,720
it would be in the context of the church. It

1800
01:45:57,720 --> 01:46:02,520
wouldn't be you know, I don't know, like I mean,

1801
01:46:02,520 --> 01:46:05,760
for example, Sam Schamun, Sam Chomun's whole ethos is a

1802
01:46:05,800 --> 01:46:09,119
bunch of dreams and visions and nonsense and orbs flying

1803
01:46:09,159 --> 01:46:12,439
around his room. All that's pre last No. One five dollars.

1804
01:46:13,279 --> 01:46:15,159
You should investigate all the people who claim to see

1805
01:46:15,199 --> 01:46:18,880
visions of Christ and angels during the time of Joseph Smith.

1806
01:46:18,960 --> 01:46:21,359
This is a very odd part of history. I think.

1807
01:46:21,399 --> 01:46:23,520
In the in the case of Joseph Smith at number one.

1808
01:46:23,560 --> 01:46:25,920
He's just a con man. I mean it's impossible. It's

1809
01:46:25,960 --> 01:46:30,239
possible that he saw some sort of angelic entity claiming

1810
01:46:30,239 --> 01:46:33,640
to be Moron I or he just understood the power

1811
01:46:33,720 --> 01:46:37,359
of uh you know, of the con and just claiming

1812
01:46:37,399 --> 01:46:41,880
to have seen visions. Any comments on Joseph.

1813
01:46:41,640 --> 01:46:46,239
Speaker 2: Smith, I totally agree. I mean Joseph Smith, Yeah, I mean,

1814
01:46:46,279 --> 01:46:49,800
that's a mixture. His dad was deeply interested in the occult.

1815
01:46:49,840 --> 01:46:51,800
I mean, I would argue Mormonism is the mixture of

1816
01:46:51,840 --> 01:46:57,039
Western Asotericism, Protestant Christianity, and Freemasonry. It's kind of the formation,

1817
01:46:57,199 --> 01:47:01,399
the foundation of what Mormonism is. So you know, yeah,

1818
01:47:01,640 --> 01:47:04,119
anybody who believes are that, or believes in the revelations

1819
01:47:04,159 --> 01:47:09,319
of Joseph Smith has problems with their critical reasoning skills exactly.

1820
01:47:09,399 --> 01:47:12,840
Speaker 1: Maximus Pike seven pounds, Thank you, gentlemen, Thank you, Maximus.

1821
01:47:12,880 --> 01:47:16,920
Appreciate that. A panini two pounds. Jay, they're euros, not pounds.

1822
01:47:16,920 --> 01:47:19,199
Excuse me, that's a euro nine a pound whatever. That

1823
01:47:19,319 --> 01:47:22,600
to me, it's all fake. They're all fake, unless it's bitcoin.

1824
01:47:22,640 --> 01:47:24,520
It might be spirit led. Paul, ten dollars. Do you

1825
01:47:24,560 --> 01:47:28,000
have any thoughts on Zoroastrianism and the claims that it

1826
01:47:28,119 --> 01:47:33,039
influenced Christianity, or any videos about Orthodoxy debunking this. Well,

1827
01:47:33,279 --> 01:47:36,279
I'll say that that's something that was very popular in

1828
01:47:37,000 --> 01:47:40,399
like older one hundred year old scholarship, like late eighteen hundreds,

1829
01:47:40,439 --> 01:47:44,520
early nineteen hundreds. I don't know that that's that popular

1830
01:47:44,600 --> 01:47:48,239
anymore in academian scholarship, and you'll learn, I think, if

1831
01:47:48,239 --> 01:47:50,680
you get deep into academic stuff, that a lot of

1832
01:47:50,680 --> 01:47:54,720
these things are fads, right, So academia has fads, and

1833
01:47:54,760 --> 01:47:59,319
they'll say things like, oh, early Christianity is influenced from Zoroastrianism,

1834
01:47:59,359 --> 01:48:01,560
and this is really popular in that you're nineteen hundred,

1835
01:48:01,600 --> 01:48:04,800
and then by nineteen seventy nobody believes this anymore. So

1836
01:48:05,000 --> 01:48:08,600
I don't think that's really happening in academia anymore. But

1837
01:48:08,640 --> 01:48:10,800
I don't keep up with academia because it's a bunch

1838
01:48:10,800 --> 01:48:15,479
of nonsense anyway. So any thoughts on Zoroastrianism, doctor David

1839
01:48:15,479 --> 01:48:16,199
Patrick here.

1840
01:48:16,439 --> 01:48:21,119
Speaker 2: I mean outside of it being an early monotheistic faith. No,

1841
01:48:21,359 --> 01:48:27,079
I've seen the arguments on Zorastrianism influencing Christianity, but the

1842
01:48:27,279 --> 01:48:32,880
very different paradigms the presuppositions are different. You know, people,

1843
01:48:33,439 --> 01:48:37,560
I think the word concept fallacy is problematic because maybe

1844
01:48:37,560 --> 01:48:41,079
there are similar things that are meant, but they're interpreted

1845
01:48:41,680 --> 01:48:45,880
by those traditions very differently. So outside of Zoroastrianism being

1846
01:48:46,279 --> 01:48:49,560
an early form of monotheism at a period in which

1847
01:48:49,560 --> 01:48:52,760
it wasn't prevalent, I think it's historically significant for that

1848
01:48:54,319 --> 01:48:57,319
it allowed for more literate culture in Persia, allowed for

1849
01:48:57,359 --> 01:49:00,199
a little bit more cultural cohesion compared to the myth

1850
01:49:00,279 --> 01:49:03,960
rhythm of previous times. But no, there's not a there's

1851
01:49:03,960 --> 01:49:06,159
not a huge correlation between the same thing, like as

1852
01:49:06,159 --> 01:49:07,960
you said with the Zeitgeist, I mean, the whole thing

1853
01:49:08,000 --> 01:49:12,760
with Christ being another form of Mithra or Apollo or

1854
01:49:12,760 --> 01:49:14,960
sole invictus. I mean, yeah, that was cool in the

1855
01:49:15,000 --> 01:49:18,439
early two thousands, but that's just not taken seriously anymore.

1856
01:49:20,119 --> 01:49:22,039
Speaker 1: Let's see the last super chet here that I see,

1857
01:49:22,079 --> 01:49:23,520
and then we'll get back to the some of the

1858
01:49:23,520 --> 01:49:26,600
books and the text here. Yeah, Kubi and Yapper type

1859
01:49:26,600 --> 01:49:30,079
one dollar Doctor David Patrick Curry, you should do a

1860
01:49:30,359 --> 01:49:34,159
drama stream after this? What's love? I love the drama streams.

1861
01:49:34,159 --> 01:49:35,520
By the way, what's the next drama stream?

1862
01:49:36,399 --> 01:49:39,720
Speaker 2: I don't know. Whenever something I think I get enough

1863
01:49:39,760 --> 01:49:43,039
interesting news that comes up, But I mean, right now,

1864
01:49:43,079 --> 01:49:45,399
I don't know what the big drama is to do,

1865
01:49:45,479 --> 01:49:47,319
but yeah, those are fun. I just kind of go with.

1866
01:49:47,439 --> 01:49:50,199
Speaker 1: Well, apparently the only big drama is that Sydney Sweeney

1867
01:49:50,199 --> 01:49:54,000
wore blue jeans and reference genetics and that's somehow, you know,

1868
01:49:54,079 --> 01:49:55,319
the third Reich or something.

1869
01:49:55,439 --> 01:49:57,760
Speaker 2: So that's the Well, then Arby's just did a commercial

1870
01:49:58,079 --> 01:50:02,960
and some US company just did a commercial, both kind

1871
01:50:02,960 --> 01:50:06,159
of playing off the same theme. So that is a

1872
01:50:06,159 --> 01:50:10,680
little cultural drama because we're seeing even major corporations like RB's,

1873
01:50:10,720 --> 01:50:13,880
American Eagle and whatever that smoothie place was that the

1874
01:50:13,920 --> 01:50:16,680
white guy did, that's all kind of saying the same thing.

1875
01:50:16,800 --> 01:50:20,439
So it feels like there's kind of a cultural shift

1876
01:50:20,520 --> 01:50:21,640
in some way that's going on.

1877
01:50:22,800 --> 01:50:26,039
Speaker 1: Jeff coasts five dollars. Yes, I've answered this question many times,

1878
01:50:26,359 --> 01:50:29,359
not being a douchebag. It's come up a lot. Have

1879
01:50:29,439 --> 01:50:31,560
you seen the people that claim that Yahweh was a

1880
01:50:31,600 --> 01:50:34,960
storm god then he became the god of the Bible. Yeah,

1881
01:50:34,960 --> 01:50:38,479
so basically there's a great I don't usually recommend this person,

1882
01:50:38,520 --> 01:50:40,920
but Weemland Craig does have one good book that's called

1883
01:50:41,760 --> 01:50:45,039
Creation x Nilo, where he shows that the way that

1884
01:50:45,079 --> 01:50:49,720
God has presented in just the Torah shows that he

1885
01:50:49,800 --> 01:50:53,800
is not at all like the surrounding ancient Near Eastern

1886
01:50:53,840 --> 01:50:59,199
deities that encompassed the nation of Israel, and he lists

1887
01:50:59,199 --> 01:51:04,840
I think about ten different distinctives that set that God off. Furthermore,

1888
01:51:05,000 --> 01:51:08,439
within the text itself, Baal is a storm god, and

1889
01:51:08,439 --> 01:51:12,079
that is not Yahweh. One reason that very low IQ

1890
01:51:12,399 --> 01:51:15,640
low tier people think this is because the word by

1891
01:51:15,760 --> 01:51:20,279
all can mean something generic, like just a lord. And

1892
01:51:20,359 --> 01:51:24,119
so you might call you know, Jesus lord, you might

1893
01:51:24,119 --> 01:51:29,079
call Satan lord, you might call something you know, Elohem

1894
01:51:29,239 --> 01:51:31,199
is another one of these terms that can just be

1895
01:51:32,359 --> 01:51:35,479
a generic word for a deity. And so very stupid

1896
01:51:35,479 --> 01:51:38,319
people who don't know about language and how word concept

1897
01:51:38,319 --> 01:51:41,439
felacies work, they will think that that word always refers

1898
01:51:41,439 --> 01:51:43,439
to the same thing. So if you have an Old

1899
01:51:43,439 --> 01:51:47,680
Testament statement of Lord in one sense section referring to

1900
01:51:48,640 --> 01:51:52,279
you know, Yahweh in another section where the Lord of

1901
01:51:52,319 --> 01:51:55,479
the Canaanites right byal or whatever, they'll think it's the

1902
01:51:55,520 --> 01:51:58,600
same reference. It's just a generic term like lord. Lord

1903
01:51:58,640 --> 01:52:00,800
can be You could call Satan lord. You could call

1904
01:52:00,880 --> 01:52:05,640
Jesus lord. It's a very very simple grammar mistake. Harvest

1905
01:52:05,680 --> 01:52:09,119
two dollars. Is this a Christian YouTube channel? We're both

1906
01:52:09,199 --> 01:52:13,119
Orthodox Christians. Yeah.

1907
01:52:13,119 --> 01:52:15,399
Speaker 2: I think the icons kind of give it away.

1908
01:52:16,680 --> 01:52:18,560
Speaker 1: Unbound. Five dollars, Jay, I thank you for everything. Can

1909
01:52:18,600 --> 01:52:23,199
you explain the jays Analysis membership and what a subscriber gets.

1910
01:52:23,399 --> 01:52:26,079
It's very simp simple, very boomer friendly. You just when

1911
01:52:26,119 --> 01:52:28,640
you subscribe, you just go to the one single tab

1912
01:52:28,760 --> 01:52:32,239
called member tab, and everything is under the members tab.

1913
01:52:32,439 --> 01:52:35,239
There's no going all around. You just have one tab

1914
01:52:35,600 --> 01:52:37,840
where there's the part one of the part two. Very

1915
01:52:37,840 --> 01:52:40,840
boomer friendly. That's it. You get access to all of

1916
01:52:40,840 --> 01:52:43,039
the interviews and talks that I've done for the last

1917
01:52:43,279 --> 01:52:45,760
i'd say ten years. I think Jay's Analysis is about

1918
01:52:45,800 --> 01:52:51,119
ten years in terms of the archives. Okay, so let's

1919
01:52:51,479 --> 01:52:55,119
we'll get another super red Fox. Ten dollars Jay, Doctor dph.

1920
01:52:55,279 --> 01:52:59,359
What is the subtle way that spiritual warfare manifests in

1921
01:52:59,479 --> 01:53:04,479
our cult culture and how does orthodox practices like prayer

1922
01:53:04,479 --> 01:53:08,720
and fasting equip you to counter the influences? Well, I

1923
01:53:08,760 --> 01:53:14,920
would just say that, you know, really fasting and that

1924
01:53:15,000 --> 01:53:18,840
kind of stuff is only a useful tool in terms

1925
01:53:18,920 --> 01:53:23,840
of helping us to maintain and keep self control. Fasting

1926
01:53:23,920 --> 01:53:27,239
itself doesn't do like we don't pay God with fasting.

1927
01:53:27,359 --> 01:53:30,520
God doesn't benefit from us not eating. It's really just

1928
01:53:30,560 --> 01:53:33,840
a way for us to discipline ourselves, to attain to

1929
01:53:33,960 --> 01:53:40,319
and maintain self control and the means of grace, like

1930
01:53:40,439 --> 01:53:43,520
prayer and especially you know, the Eucharist. That's the way

1931
01:53:43,600 --> 01:53:47,920
in which we obtain the actual ontological power to not

1932
01:53:48,119 --> 01:53:52,439
fall prey to the cultural influences, the demonic influences. And

1933
01:53:52,479 --> 01:53:56,199
that's because we're participating in the uncreated grace and life

1934
01:53:56,239 --> 01:53:59,319
and love of God through the sacraments and prayer and

1935
01:53:59,359 --> 01:54:02,119
so forth. That's what I would say, Cotel, Do you

1936
01:54:02,159 --> 01:54:03,319
have anything to add to that.

1937
01:54:04,680 --> 01:54:09,600
Speaker 2: I mean, basically what you said, I would add that prayer, fasting,

1938
01:54:09,680 --> 01:54:12,159
the Eucharist, participating in the sacraments. This helps give you

1939
01:54:12,159 --> 01:54:15,159
spiritual discernment, allows the Holy Spirit to be present within you.

1940
01:54:15,640 --> 01:54:17,760
If you have more discernment, you're going to be able

1941
01:54:17,800 --> 01:54:23,039
to navigate, whether it be propaganda, internal thoughts people you

1942
01:54:23,199 --> 01:54:28,079
encounter much easier. So basically, what Jay said, the practice

1943
01:54:28,159 --> 01:54:31,399
is the spiritual practice of Orthodoxy allow you to be

1944
01:54:31,760 --> 01:54:36,239
a carrier of the Holy Spirit and have more discernment

1945
01:54:36,319 --> 01:54:39,239
regarding the things that are happening. That's how you navigate

1946
01:54:39,239 --> 01:54:40,439
and offend yourself against it.

1947
01:54:41,640 --> 01:54:45,399
Speaker 1: Jacob Kaba ten dollars. I was watching doctor David Patrick

1948
01:54:45,399 --> 01:54:49,960
Carey's talks on Saint Paizios and the prophecies. What are

1949
01:54:50,000 --> 01:54:53,399
your opinions on in times and the prophecies and could

1950
01:54:53,399 --> 01:54:58,079
they be used by elites or are they more guided

1951
01:54:58,119 --> 01:55:02,119
by God's will? Well, I mean, this is an area

1952
01:55:02,159 --> 01:55:03,960
that I don't really delve into. I don't know a

1953
01:55:03,960 --> 01:55:05,840
whole lot about it, so I don't have a positive

1954
01:55:05,920 --> 01:55:09,199
or negative opinion. I know that Cotail spend a lot

1955
01:55:09,199 --> 01:55:11,840
more time in this domain than I have, so I

1956
01:55:11,840 --> 01:55:14,960
would say that when the end times come, will know.

1957
01:55:15,199 --> 01:55:17,039
I don't think we have to worry too much about it.

1958
01:55:17,119 --> 01:55:20,640
I'm not saying that people can't study, you know, the prophecies,

1959
01:55:20,720 --> 01:55:24,720
the elders and whatnot. They absolutely can. That's up to

1960
01:55:24,840 --> 01:55:27,520
you and what you know, what you get into, what

1961
01:55:27,560 --> 01:55:34,279
you find interesting. It's possible that elites could fake prophecies,

1962
01:55:34,319 --> 01:55:36,680
there could be forgeries, or any of these things are possible.

1963
01:55:37,319 --> 01:55:39,880
I don't have any evidence necessarily of that, but it

1964
01:55:40,000 --> 01:55:43,560
is definitely within the realm of possibility. Are they more

1965
01:55:43,600 --> 01:55:47,079
guided by God's will? I think holy men absolutely are

1966
01:55:47,199 --> 01:55:50,239
are more guided by God's will, But I would I would.

1967
01:55:50,880 --> 01:55:53,560
My take on this would just be that I think

1968
01:55:53,600 --> 01:55:58,680
that divine revelation as a public binding thing ceased. That

1969
01:55:58,720 --> 01:56:01,920
doesn't mean that there aren't and clairvoyant people in the church,

1970
01:56:02,520 --> 01:56:04,680
but I don't think you can like bind everybody to

1971
01:56:05,039 --> 01:56:07,279
these private revelations. That's my understanding.

1972
01:56:07,880 --> 01:56:12,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would. I would agree, and also say that

1973
01:56:12,880 --> 01:56:15,840
I've done a lot of streams regarding looking at some

1974
01:56:15,880 --> 01:56:19,239
of the eschological visions of various saints and elders, and

1975
01:56:19,319 --> 01:56:22,159
if this stuff gives you anxiety, like, that's not the point.

1976
01:56:22,439 --> 01:56:27,479
And really these aren't these aren't timelines for history. And

1977
01:56:27,600 --> 01:56:30,159
as that Jay said, these are private revelations among some

1978
01:56:30,279 --> 01:56:33,560
holy men. Some of them are very insightful, and it

1979
01:56:34,119 --> 01:56:37,359
appear based on a third party, that they've been fulfilled,

1980
01:56:37,359 --> 01:56:40,119
that they've come true. But really, if you read this stuff,

1981
01:56:40,760 --> 01:56:43,920
uh in St. Piecios included was that these are just

1982
01:56:44,039 --> 01:56:47,359
signs to be aware of. Uh. Saint Piacio's was big

1983
01:56:47,399 --> 01:56:51,079
on the encroachment of technocracy and ecumenism, and that these

1984
01:56:51,079 --> 01:56:53,479
are signs that every orthodox Christian needs to be aware

1985
01:56:53,520 --> 01:56:56,000
of because they are going to move towards uh the

1986
01:56:56,039 --> 01:56:59,079
new Babylonian kingdom, you know, the kingdom of the Antichrist.

1987
01:56:59,479 --> 01:57:01,680
Does that mean I mean that you know something he

1988
01:57:01,720 --> 01:57:04,760
said in the nineteen eighties. You need to be like

1989
01:57:05,199 --> 01:57:08,239
searching the news every day and concerned and trying to

1990
01:57:08,239 --> 01:57:14,000
pinpoint like no spiritual discernment, participating in the sacraments of

1991
01:57:14,039 --> 01:57:16,800
the church, and then just hearing what the saints and

1992
01:57:16,800 --> 01:57:20,000
elders have to say and looking for signs when they emerge.

1993
01:57:20,039 --> 01:57:21,079
That's the point of it.

1994
01:57:22,039 --> 01:57:24,840
Speaker 1: Let me ask you this because I overlooked this question.

1995
01:57:24,920 --> 01:57:28,119
Red Fox originally said. The first line in his super

1996
01:57:28,239 --> 01:57:32,239
chat was doctor or David Patrick Harriet, what are the

1997
01:57:32,439 --> 01:57:36,239
subtle ways that spiritual warfare manifests and culture that we

1998
01:57:36,279 --> 01:57:37,159
don't notice?

1999
01:57:38,880 --> 01:57:43,319
Speaker 2: I would say, obviously your imagination. That's the one that

2000
01:57:43,640 --> 01:57:47,000
I talk with guys the most about is they get

2001
01:57:47,039 --> 01:57:50,199
weird thoughts, and everybody's had the experience. You know, maybe

2002
01:57:50,199 --> 01:57:51,680
you're on a tall building and you kind of walk

2003
01:57:51,720 --> 01:57:53,000
towards the edge and all of a sudden you get

2004
01:57:53,000 --> 01:57:56,079
a thought like to jump like to just kill yourself.

2005
01:57:57,239 --> 01:57:59,560
We would believe that that's not you thinking, that that

2006
01:57:59,680 --> 01:58:02,239
is a suggestion, that's low giz me, that's a suggestion

2007
01:58:02,399 --> 01:58:06,119
from a demon or the evil one, and that these

2008
01:58:06,159 --> 01:58:08,840
are the subtleties that are occurring every day. But also

2009
01:58:08,920 --> 01:58:11,720
those subtleties can emerge through the music you listen to,

2010
01:58:11,840 --> 01:58:15,600
through propaganda, through if you're believing news or mainstream news

2011
01:58:15,640 --> 01:58:18,600
like these are another ways in which subtle subversion can

2012
01:58:18,600 --> 01:58:22,239
take place. And you just have to believe a lie

2013
01:58:22,560 --> 01:58:24,479
to move in the wrong direction. And that's the whole

2014
01:58:24,479 --> 01:58:28,039
point of the sort of subtle spiritual warfare. I want

2015
01:58:28,039 --> 01:58:31,479
to say one last thing on the eschatology thing is

2016
01:58:31,640 --> 01:58:35,199
this stuff isn't for everybody. I know people love to

2017
01:58:35,640 --> 01:58:39,000
hear about in time for the apocalypse, But the whole

2018
01:58:39,000 --> 01:58:41,079
point is just to get this stuff available with what

2019
01:58:41,159 --> 01:58:43,279
I work with with the Escaton Vigil in English. A

2020
01:58:43,279 --> 01:58:45,680
lot of this stuff. Almost everything we've translated has been

2021
01:58:45,720 --> 01:58:48,520
either in Russian, Serbian, Romanian or Greek, and they've never

2022
01:58:48,560 --> 01:58:51,640
been in English. So our goal is just to try

2023
01:58:51,680 --> 01:58:54,880
to get this stuff in English. And if you're wanting

2024
01:58:54,920 --> 01:58:57,399
to participate in a community of men that are aware

2025
01:58:57,439 --> 01:58:59,840
of these things and can interpret them in a way

2026
01:58:59,840 --> 01:59:03,359
that doesn't cause anxiety and stress, which is absolutely not

2027
01:59:03,520 --> 01:59:05,880
the purpose of any of it. Then you can join

2028
01:59:05,920 --> 01:59:08,720
the Logos Academy because the Escaton Vigil, the founder of that,

2029
01:59:09,319 --> 01:59:13,239
he's in our group. And if you sign up today tomorrow,

2030
01:59:13,319 --> 01:59:15,560
the price is going to go up. I told for

2031
01:59:15,600 --> 01:59:17,560
the first week it was a founding members price, So

2032
01:59:17,640 --> 01:59:20,279
right now if you join, your price will be locked

2033
01:59:20,279 --> 01:59:22,720
in for twenty five dollars a month. Again, that includes

2034
01:59:22,800 --> 01:59:25,800
three meetings a month, all the exclusive content, and then

2035
01:59:25,840 --> 01:59:29,399
the courses that I'm going to build out. So my

2036
01:59:29,640 --> 01:59:32,680
estimation it's a great value compared to what other people

2037
01:59:32,720 --> 01:59:34,399
are doing with the amount of time that I'm putting

2038
01:59:34,439 --> 01:59:38,199
in with actual Zoom meetings, because as Jay knows, those

2039
01:59:38,199 --> 01:59:42,199
are actually very time intensive and it takes you away

2040
01:59:42,199 --> 01:59:44,880
from doing other work. So but if that's the kind

2041
01:59:44,920 --> 01:59:46,479
of community you want to be in, where if you

2042
01:59:46,479 --> 01:59:48,760
have a question Jacob on stuff like this, like we

2043
01:59:48,840 --> 01:59:51,079
actually have guys that are reading this stuff and are

2044
01:59:51,119 --> 01:59:55,000
not consumed by anxiety about it and can talk to

2045
01:59:55,000 --> 01:59:58,319
you in a very rational and well tempered way.

2046
02:00:00,119 --> 02:00:02,880
Speaker 1: Spirit led Palfi dollars, do you have blessings to debate

2047
02:00:03,000 --> 02:00:05,319
so that I can send crazy people to Please do

2048
02:00:05,399 --> 02:00:09,479
not send crazy people to me. I mean, I don't

2049
02:00:09,479 --> 02:00:12,039
think that you need a blessing to do a debate.

2050
02:00:12,119 --> 02:00:14,439
I mean I think that the more that you move

2051
02:00:14,479 --> 02:00:20,199
into trying to teach people, uh you know, spiritual life

2052
02:00:20,640 --> 02:00:23,159
stuff and to try to be like a spiritual father

2053
02:00:23,239 --> 02:00:25,800
or something like that, you need that that blessing. But

2054
02:00:25,840 --> 02:00:28,239
I think everything that we do, you know, people know

2055
02:00:28,239 --> 02:00:30,479
who our priests are, we know they know, you know

2056
02:00:30,520 --> 02:00:33,720
where we go, what we're up to. You don't have

2057
02:00:33,760 --> 02:00:36,600
to get your priests or your bishop's blessing for everything

2058
02:00:36,640 --> 02:00:39,279
that you do. It really and also kind of depends

2059
02:00:39,319 --> 02:00:43,079
on the context of what you're doing it, Like you know, uh,

2060
02:00:43,479 --> 02:00:47,159
you know doctor Cotel, you calling you doctor doctor David Patrick,

2061
02:00:47,159 --> 02:00:50,039
Harry and I we both went on whatever and debated

2062
02:00:50,159 --> 02:00:51,800
kind of crazy feminist.

2063
02:00:51,439 --> 02:00:54,039
Speaker 2: Chicks that'll either we don't need we don't have to call.

2064
02:00:53,960 --> 02:00:56,079
Speaker 1: The bishop that you know, see if we can debate

2065
02:00:56,199 --> 02:01:02,880
some crazy chick on whatever podcast. But but no, please

2066
02:01:02,920 --> 02:01:06,119
don't send crazy people my way. Please don't tennis racket

2067
02:01:06,159 --> 02:01:07,960
eleven dollars and forty one cents. That guys, thank you.

2068
02:01:08,039 --> 02:01:13,039
For the stream. Bless God, bless you both. David. I'm sorry, brother,

2069
02:01:13,119 --> 02:01:16,880
I wanted to say something hurtful in your stream. You

2070
02:01:16,920 --> 02:01:21,159
are great well. I think we're both men here. I

2071
02:01:21,159 --> 02:01:23,319
don't think your word. Your words are not going to

2072
02:01:23,399 --> 02:01:28,119
hurt us. We're rubber, you're glue. Whatever you say bounces

2073
02:01:28,159 --> 02:01:30,239
off of us and sticks to you, so our feelings

2074
02:01:30,239 --> 02:01:33,680
are not hurt. We're big boys. Let me see him.

2075
02:01:33,680 --> 02:01:35,840
Make sure I'm not missing a super chat here. Okay,

2076
02:01:36,439 --> 02:01:40,680
let me ask you about the Esslin Institute because you

2077
02:01:40,760 --> 02:01:43,000
recommended this book. I have read some of it by

2078
02:01:43,039 --> 02:01:46,039
Jeffrey Krippall. It is a very enlightening and I think

2079
02:01:46,079 --> 02:01:47,880
the thing that really first stuck out to me that

2080
02:01:47,920 --> 02:01:49,359
made me want to get it as I was sort

2081
02:01:49,399 --> 02:01:54,000
of flipping through it was the chapter Sex with Angels,

2082
02:01:54,359 --> 02:01:57,920
the Non Local Mind UFOs, and the end to Ordinary History,

2083
02:01:58,119 --> 02:02:00,800
where we talk about this figure of Russell targ the

2084
02:02:00,880 --> 02:02:05,920
Cia psychic spy who became a mystic. Once I see that,

2085
02:02:06,039 --> 02:02:09,600
I'm enthralled. Esalin seems to me to be the sort

2086
02:02:09,600 --> 02:02:14,600
of the boomer think tank that births almost It's sort

2087
02:02:14,600 --> 02:02:19,960
of the the brains behind the sixties counterculture revolution and

2088
02:02:20,000 --> 02:02:22,439
it even gets into this out there sort of alien

2089
02:02:22,640 --> 02:02:26,079
and CIA stuff. What about Essline? What about this book?

2090
02:02:26,840 --> 02:02:31,199
And how does Esslin play into your thesis when it

2091
02:02:31,199 --> 02:02:33,640
comes to hallucinogens and transhumanism?

2092
02:02:35,520 --> 02:02:38,840
Speaker 2: So, I mean Eslin is the foundation of what's called

2093
02:02:38,840 --> 02:02:42,600
the human potential movement, and whether you're talking about transhumanism

2094
02:02:42,760 --> 02:02:47,039
or psychedelic mysticism, the human potential movement is essential to

2095
02:02:47,079 --> 02:02:50,239
both of those. And the belief is that we're capable

2096
02:02:50,520 --> 02:02:54,119
of way more than we're actually presenting now, and that

2097
02:02:54,159 --> 02:02:57,000
these are sort of spiritually latent abilities and stuff.

2098
02:02:57,239 --> 02:02:58,520
Speaker 1: By the way, By the way, I'm sorry, let me

2099
02:02:58,520 --> 02:03:00,520
just at one point, I don't I don't forget this

2100
02:03:00,640 --> 02:03:03,319
human potential thing, because Jamie asked me about this last night.

2101
02:03:03,439 --> 02:03:06,239
She said, who's Norman Vincent Peel? People don't know that

2102
02:03:06,279 --> 02:03:09,520
Norman Vincent Peel is the father of positive thinking, and

2103
02:03:09,560 --> 02:03:11,600
I'm assuming that also is going to tie into what

2104
02:03:11,600 --> 02:03:15,680
you're saying with Esslin, And don't forget that positive thinking

2105
02:03:16,359 --> 02:03:19,880
is also what influenced people like Robert Schuler the first

2106
02:03:19,920 --> 02:03:24,439
big megachurch Crystal Cathedral stuff, to take Christianity and turned

2107
02:03:24,439 --> 02:03:28,239
it into a positive thinking with a cult with a

2108
02:03:28,319 --> 02:03:29,640
Christian Veneer.

2109
02:03:30,359 --> 02:03:32,840
Speaker 2: And that's the official Christianity according to the White House

2110
02:03:32,920 --> 02:03:34,960
right now? The was it Paula White?

2111
02:03:35,039 --> 02:03:35,880
Speaker 1: Oh? Is she part of that?

2112
02:03:36,560 --> 02:03:38,600
Speaker 2: Yeah? So, And that's how I know that Trump is

2113
02:03:38,640 --> 02:03:41,560
because Trump was a big Peel fan, and he's all

2114
02:03:41,600 --> 02:03:44,000
into positive thinking. That's part of his rhetoric is that

2115
02:03:44,399 --> 02:03:47,359
he always wants to rhetorically display something in the way

2116
02:03:47,399 --> 02:03:50,079
in which he wants it to be. He's very convinced

2117
02:03:50,079 --> 02:03:52,920
that this positive thinking and the law of affirmation and

2118
02:03:52,960 --> 02:03:54,600
the way you the words, Hey.

2119
02:03:54,560 --> 02:03:57,600
Speaker 1: Dude, I manifest that stuff. I just manifested. I want

2120
02:03:57,600 --> 02:03:58,560
it and I'm manifested.

2121
02:03:58,640 --> 02:04:01,800
Speaker 2: Bro. Yeah. Well, and that's why Paula White was his

2122
02:04:01,960 --> 02:04:04,880
personal pastor. I mean, she's one of these prosperity Gospels,

2123
02:04:04,880 --> 02:04:08,840
but she's all positive thinking. And that's why Trump latched

2124
02:04:08,880 --> 02:04:12,600
onto hers, because she basically validated his secular law of

2125
02:04:12,600 --> 02:04:18,439
attraction into a form of Protestant Zionis Christianity. So regarding

2126
02:04:18,520 --> 02:04:20,960
the Human Potential movement in Eslin, though, Esslin is a

2127
02:04:21,000 --> 02:04:26,319
fascinating little piece of history that most people, as the

2128
02:04:26,359 --> 02:04:29,159
average person, has never even heard of. But this was

2129
02:04:29,239 --> 02:04:31,439
really the think tank, I mean, in nineteen sixty three,

2130
02:04:31,479 --> 02:04:34,680
so just you know, everybody knows the nineteen sixties counterculture,

2131
02:04:35,279 --> 02:04:38,359
but it's nineteen sixty three that Leary gets fired from

2132
02:04:38,359 --> 02:04:41,960
Harvard because ram Das was having a gay relationship with

2133
02:04:42,000 --> 02:04:49,319
an undergraduate student. Rams, yeah, exactly, So they get fired

2134
02:04:49,359 --> 02:04:51,840
from Harvard. So from sixty to sixty three is the

2135
02:04:51,880 --> 02:04:55,680
early Harvard research on psilocybin. Sixty three is also then

2136
02:04:55,720 --> 02:04:59,239
when the Esslin Institute begins to have people like Aldus

2137
02:04:59,319 --> 02:05:03,800
Huxley come and present his sort of perennial philosophy, and

2138
02:05:03,880 --> 02:05:07,560
so you know, sixty seven is the Summer of Love,

2139
02:05:07,680 --> 02:05:10,159
sixty nine is Woodstock, and so that gives you a

2140
02:05:10,199 --> 02:05:12,479
little bit of a timeframe. And so through the sixties,

2141
02:05:12,600 --> 02:05:16,439
the Esslin Institute is where the people of the counterculture,

2142
02:05:17,720 --> 02:05:19,880
you know, essentially, and Krypel talks about that, it's a

2143
02:05:20,000 --> 02:05:21,840
it's a who's who. I mean, everybody who goes there

2144
02:05:21,840 --> 02:05:24,920
basically as a PhD. So this isn't like the average,

2145
02:05:25,119 --> 02:05:27,840
you know, run of the mill kind of person. This

2146
02:05:27,960 --> 02:05:32,600
is an institute dedicated to advancing humanity to its like

2147
02:05:32,760 --> 02:05:37,439
ultimate endpoint and its capabilities. So they're using gestalt therapy,

2148
02:05:37,479 --> 02:05:41,079
they're using psychedelics, they're using tantric forms of yoga, anything

2149
02:05:41,199 --> 02:05:45,880
in regards to the elevation you know, of personal consciousness

2150
02:05:45,960 --> 02:05:48,720
is being used there. There's a famous story that you

2151
02:05:48,800 --> 02:05:55,760
probably read of Hunter Thompson actually being pissed because they

2152
02:05:55,840 --> 02:05:58,880
have there's like a natural spa there at Esslin, and

2153
02:05:58,960 --> 02:06:01,439
even in the early six these gay men would go

2154
02:06:01,479 --> 02:06:05,039
there and Hunter s Thompson, who was not fan of

2155
02:06:05,039 --> 02:06:07,880
homosexual he was part of the counterculture, and he was

2156
02:06:07,920 --> 02:06:10,199
actually hired by Michael Murphy to be the sort of

2157
02:06:10,720 --> 02:06:13,159
security guard for the premises and allowed him to stay

2158
02:06:13,199 --> 02:06:14,840
there while he worked on some of the different stuff.

2159
02:06:15,319 --> 02:06:18,359
He actually went out there to confront four gay men

2160
02:06:18,399 --> 02:06:22,119
who were frolicking with each other in the bath and

2161
02:06:22,319 --> 02:06:24,479
actually got beat up by them, and he never returned

2162
02:06:24,520 --> 02:06:25,399
to Eslin again.

2163
02:06:26,079 --> 02:06:29,000
Speaker 1: No, I did not know that we have. Jamie and

2164
02:06:29,039 --> 02:06:31,840
I took a road trip some years back when we

2165
02:06:31,840 --> 02:06:34,960
were first dating, and we did drive up Big Sir,

2166
02:06:35,239 --> 02:06:37,600
and we drove past it, but we didn't go to it.

2167
02:06:37,600 --> 02:06:39,119
Speaker 2: It's beautiful the area, I mean.

2168
02:06:38,960 --> 02:06:40,479
Speaker 1: It is gory, Yeah, Big Sir is awesome.

2169
02:06:40,880 --> 02:06:43,720
Speaker 2: I mean you literally look out there's whales, dolphins. I

2170
02:06:43,720 --> 02:06:47,039
mean it is like an ideal scenic Yeah, it's perfect,

2171
02:06:47,119 --> 02:06:49,560
yeah place, and it's built on the ruins of a

2172
02:06:49,640 --> 02:06:50,439
Native American.

2173
02:06:52,399 --> 02:06:56,119
Speaker 1: I don't know, well, this becomes I mean, it becomes

2174
02:06:56,119 --> 02:07:01,479
a hub right of the counter culture. You've got Deepak Chopra,

2175
02:07:01,920 --> 02:07:05,279
You've got like all of these sort of big counterculture

2176
02:07:05,279 --> 02:07:08,880
figures at some point have gone and done lectures and

2177
02:07:08,960 --> 02:07:10,359
seminars at Esslin.

2178
02:07:10,960 --> 02:07:15,520
Speaker 2: Yeah. Abraham Maslow, I mean for his his hierarchy of

2179
02:07:15,600 --> 02:07:18,479
values again, that's all that was tied with the Human

2180
02:07:18,520 --> 02:07:21,239
Potential Movement because they're trying to get the you know,

2181
02:07:21,279 --> 02:07:24,479
what do people need, which then kinds ties with socialist ideas.

2182
02:07:24,479 --> 02:07:27,279
While they need they need food and shelter, they need education,

2183
02:07:27,359 --> 02:07:29,840
we need to provide all these things so that each individual.

2184
02:07:29,479 --> 02:07:31,880
Speaker 1: That was also part of M culture too. Maslow was

2185
02:07:31,920 --> 02:07:35,000
part of M cultra. The Human Potential Movement was studied

2186
02:07:35,000 --> 02:07:37,880
in mcultra too. In fact, they even put that into

2187
02:07:38,479 --> 02:07:41,800
military studies where they were experimenting on certain troops and

2188
02:07:41,880 --> 02:07:46,720
certain special operations divisions where they tried to inculcate them

2189
02:07:46,800 --> 02:07:49,720
with like extreme forms of positive thinking to see if

2190
02:07:49,760 --> 02:07:53,119
it could like alter how well they performed in battle.

2191
02:07:54,159 --> 02:07:57,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, and so the Esslin Institute, to your point, I

2192
02:07:57,720 --> 02:08:00,720
mean we're talking like a skinner and his behaviorism, like

2193
02:08:00,760 --> 02:08:03,600
he went there to give lectures. This this whole thing

2194
02:08:03,760 --> 02:08:07,800
was about advancing and acquiring like supernatural abilities. And this

2195
02:08:07,840 --> 02:08:12,199
gets tied with quantum physics. You know, Russell Targ he's

2196
02:08:12,239 --> 02:08:15,479
like a remote viewer and they have this research. So

2197
02:08:15,520 --> 02:08:18,520
one of the interest things about Esslin is that during

2198
02:08:18,520 --> 02:08:22,159
the Cold War, somehow they had permission by the CIA

2199
02:08:22,720 --> 02:08:26,079
to be involved with other mystics in Russia. Now we

2200
02:08:26,079 --> 02:08:28,399
were told, you know, there was no communication between Russian

2201
02:08:28,399 --> 02:08:28,760
and America.

2202
02:08:28,800 --> 02:08:31,600
Speaker 1: Wearing a sky spies. Mark Hackert is a good essay

2203
02:08:31,600 --> 02:08:34,399
on Russian psychic spies called sy Spies.

2204
02:08:34,720 --> 02:08:37,399
Speaker 2: And there's a whole section in that book talking about

2205
02:08:37,760 --> 02:08:40,680
how somehow, you know, they were they were able to

2206
02:08:40,720 --> 02:08:44,239
take trips government sanctioned to Russia, Russians coming to Esslin,

2207
02:08:44,680 --> 02:08:47,840
and that they performed some remote viewing experiment where one

2208
02:08:47,840 --> 02:08:51,159
of the mystics in Russia was able to hold some object,

2209
02:08:51,239 --> 02:08:53,880
it was like a toy elephant or something, and that

2210
02:08:54,520 --> 02:08:57,039
one of the remote viewers at Esslin could then tap

2211
02:08:57,079 --> 02:09:00,039
into his awareness and they accurately described the thing that

2212
02:09:00,039 --> 02:09:02,359
they were holding. And so Russell Target is one of

2213
02:09:02,399 --> 02:09:05,920
these individuals that really big and promoting remote viewing and

2214
02:09:06,079 --> 02:09:08,039
access to these supernatural abilities.

2215
02:09:08,079 --> 02:09:10,720
Speaker 1: Well, this is like verging on like X Men levels,

2216
02:09:11,000 --> 02:09:15,039
you know, stranger things, you know, super kid type stuff

2217
02:09:15,079 --> 02:09:19,640
that they were evolving these like latent powers.

2218
02:09:19,720 --> 02:09:23,079
Speaker 2: Right, yes, Well Krepel has a famous article talking about

2219
02:09:23,159 --> 02:09:27,000
superheroes and comics and how this was actually the again

2220
02:09:27,079 --> 02:09:31,359
that forties, fifties, sixties culture of science fiction was absolutely

2221
02:09:31,479 --> 02:09:34,479
influencing what they thought they were doing at the Eslin Institute,

2222
02:09:35,079 --> 02:09:39,079
and it was literally to create these supernatural humans through

2223
02:09:39,520 --> 02:09:43,560
psychological process against stalt therapy, different things like that to

2224
02:09:44,439 --> 02:09:45,600
raise conscious.

2225
02:09:45,359 --> 02:09:48,319
Speaker 1: Oh, if you've seen that Brian De Palmer movie called

2226
02:09:48,359 --> 02:09:53,439
The Fury, you should watch that. We did a SIOP cinema,

2227
02:09:54,279 --> 02:09:56,840
the SYP cinema guys and I we did an analysis

2228
02:09:56,880 --> 02:10:00,000
of We called it MK Kids, which was the idea

2229
02:10:00,119 --> 02:10:04,039
of like movies that dealt with gifted children evolving to

2230
02:10:04,079 --> 02:10:08,960
have these sort of X men abilities. Three come to mind,

2231
02:10:09,359 --> 02:10:11,520
one of which is from nineteen seventy eight, and it's

2232
02:10:11,520 --> 02:10:14,760
like Brian De Palmer's version of the Exorcist. But it's

2233
02:10:14,800 --> 02:10:18,520
actually worth watching because I mean it's there's some crazy

2234
02:10:18,760 --> 02:10:22,000
like Cia intelligence type stuff in there, Like it begins

2235
02:10:22,000 --> 02:10:26,840
with Michael Douglass in Israel faking a T E R

2236
02:10:26,920 --> 02:10:32,399
R O R attack on like an Israeli beach from Palestinians.

2237
02:10:32,439 --> 02:10:34,399
It's it's very bizarre, and then it turns into this

2238
02:10:34,439 --> 02:10:39,199
whole big intelligence drama where they're experimenting on his son

2239
02:10:39,319 --> 02:10:43,359
because his son has these sort of latent telekinesis abilities,

2240
02:10:43,359 --> 02:10:45,119
so it turns into it like a total sort of

2241
02:10:45,279 --> 02:10:49,119
MP Ultra style thing. There's also The Stephen King Fire

2242
02:10:49,159 --> 02:10:52,800
started with Drew Barrymore, which is about children developing these

2243
02:10:52,800 --> 02:10:56,199
things being studied by secret government projects telekinesis and whatnot.

2244
02:10:56,199 --> 02:11:01,119
And then there is The New Mutants with Anya Taylor Joy,

2245
02:11:01,840 --> 02:11:05,800
where uh, it's a backstory to The X Men, where

2246
02:11:05,800 --> 02:11:09,479
it's like they're putting these children in this like secret school,

2247
02:11:10,479 --> 02:11:12,279
which is kind of what Professor Ax is doing, but

2248
02:11:12,319 --> 02:11:15,279
in that case it's more explicitly that trauma based mind

2249
02:11:15,319 --> 02:11:20,520
control is believed to spur on and cause these psychic abilities,

2250
02:11:20,560 --> 02:11:22,960
which is something that does come up in this literature.

2251
02:11:23,000 --> 02:11:25,520
So I'm not trying to get off into the weeds,

2252
02:11:25,560 --> 02:11:28,439
but there's actually quite a few movies that touch on

2253
02:11:28,520 --> 02:11:30,039
this theme, right I.

2254
02:11:30,039 --> 02:11:33,239
Speaker 2: Mean we did a whole stream on Project Stargate. Oh ye,

2255
02:11:33,640 --> 02:11:40,800
good point, exactly well documented CIA funding project on again

2256
02:11:41,560 --> 02:11:43,880
really research we talked about. This research coming out of

2257
02:11:43,960 --> 02:11:46,720
Eslin is what influences in the CIA in the eighties

2258
02:11:46,760 --> 02:11:50,039
developing Project Stargate, which is ironically the same name of

2259
02:11:50,119 --> 02:11:53,079
the new AI project that Trump just oh right, right,

2260
02:11:54,159 --> 02:11:58,239
So yeah, there a lot of interesting connections in Eslin

2261
02:11:58,439 --> 02:12:01,800
was essentially the intellectual catalyst for all this stuff. This

2262
02:12:01,880 --> 02:12:03,920
isn't I mean, you can go as a regular person's

2263
02:12:04,000 --> 02:12:07,279
very expensive, but as Crypel talks about in that book,

2264
02:12:07,399 --> 02:12:09,640
I mean almost if you go in, you know, on

2265
02:12:09,680 --> 02:12:12,720
a regular day, almost everybody there's an academic or some

2266
02:12:12,800 --> 02:12:15,800
type of professional. This is kind of an elite place

2267
02:12:16,239 --> 02:12:19,960
for elite people that are interested in these projects. And eventually,

2268
02:12:20,079 --> 02:12:21,880
you know, by the eighties you get somebody like Terence

2269
02:12:21,920 --> 02:12:27,920
McKinnon who becomes a resident lecturer there, and so you know,

2270
02:12:28,000 --> 02:12:31,600
by the eighties and into the nineties, psychedelics and psychedelics

2271
02:12:31,640 --> 02:12:36,439
being something that can liberate you from the historical constraints

2272
02:12:36,479 --> 02:12:40,119
of man is part and parcel of the Esslin Institute,

2273
02:12:40,199 --> 02:12:44,039
and where it connects with transhumanism is by the nineties,

2274
02:12:44,119 --> 02:12:46,520
Leary is kind of given up on being the psychedelic

2275
02:12:46,680 --> 02:12:49,840
LSD guru. He writes a book like Your Brain Is God,

2276
02:12:50,000 --> 02:12:53,560
where he's arguing that computers are the new LSD and

2277
02:12:53,600 --> 02:12:57,039
that transhumanism is the future, and that everything that happened

2278
02:12:57,079 --> 02:12:59,159
in the sixties and seventies that he was a part of,

2279
02:12:59,600 --> 02:13:02,359
he's saying is going to be fulfilled through through technology

2280
02:13:02,399 --> 02:13:03,319
and computer and AI.

2281
02:13:03,800 --> 02:13:06,680
Speaker 1: Did you ever there's a great documentary that's pretty famous.

2282
02:13:06,760 --> 02:13:11,680
It's called The Unibomber, the Net and mk Ultra or

2283
02:13:11,680 --> 02:13:12,720
something like that. Have you seen that?

2284
02:13:13,479 --> 02:13:13,600
Speaker 2: Oh?

2285
02:13:13,640 --> 02:13:15,199
Speaker 1: You got to see that because they actually go and

2286
02:13:15,239 --> 02:13:19,039
interview people at Esslin Institute, and they they even get

2287
02:13:19,079 --> 02:13:21,920
into stuff like the Vienna the positivists of the Vienna

2288
02:13:21,960 --> 02:13:26,960
Circle and how it all ties into LSD and the

2289
02:13:27,159 --> 02:13:29,159
It's it's a really good documentary. I'll try to dig

2290
02:13:29,159 --> 02:13:30,800
that up and find that you should definitely watch. Everybody

2291
02:13:30,840 --> 02:13:33,279
audius to watch that too, And everybody should watch the

2292
02:13:33,319 --> 02:13:36,439
movies that we just mentioned, including The Fury. They're they're

2293
02:13:36,479 --> 02:13:38,960
all very relevant to what we're talking about and demonstrate

2294
02:13:39,000 --> 02:13:41,079
I think that this is this is all real, This

2295
02:13:41,119 --> 02:13:44,600
is not conspiracy stuff. This's actually very legitimately, Like I'm

2296
02:13:44,600 --> 02:13:46,800
not saying the Telekinese's powers are real. I'm just saying

2297
02:13:46,840 --> 02:13:49,640
that they really do study and are interested in this,

2298
02:13:50,199 --> 02:13:53,920
and it's infected the society so far as to like

2299
02:13:54,079 --> 02:13:59,119
literally be the origins indirectly of as he pointed out,

2300
02:13:59,399 --> 02:14:04,119
the Prospect Gospel all coming out of positive thinking. New thought,

2301
02:14:04,199 --> 02:14:05,560
I think is one of this too, is a new

2302
02:14:05,600 --> 02:14:06,159
thought part of that.

2303
02:14:06,680 --> 02:14:06,920
Speaker 2: Yep.

2304
02:14:07,520 --> 02:14:10,439
Speaker 1: Okay, So anything else you want to tell us about this,

2305
02:14:10,520 --> 02:14:12,319
and then maybe we can tie it into you know,

2306
02:14:12,880 --> 02:14:15,520
transhumanism and anything else you want to say about your

2307
02:14:15,640 --> 02:14:18,640
your thesis here, because this is all this is how

2308
02:14:18,640 --> 02:14:19,720
we got in the modern world.

2309
02:14:20,720 --> 02:14:22,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is this is how we got to the

2310
02:14:22,479 --> 02:14:26,039
modern world. And I mean, I don't have much more

2311
02:14:26,039 --> 02:14:27,800
to say about Eslam. We kind of hit it. I mean,

2312
02:14:27,840 --> 02:14:30,680
unless you want to get into minutia that maybe some

2313
02:14:30,720 --> 02:14:33,479
of the people would be interested in. But generally speaking,

2314
02:14:33,880 --> 02:14:36,359
I mean, Eslin's just an important spot. I mean, when

2315
02:14:36,399 --> 02:14:40,039
you start talking about like Alan Watts and his Asian studies,

2316
02:14:40,399 --> 02:14:43,439
I forget exactly what it was, the American study of

2317
02:14:43,479 --> 02:14:46,600
Asian culture or something in San Francisco. All this stuff

2318
02:14:46,680 --> 02:14:50,119
is spawned out of the Esslin Institute, which was closely

2319
02:14:50,199 --> 02:14:53,439
tied with Stanford University, which Stanford University is, and it's

2320
02:14:53,479 --> 02:14:58,039
closely tied. And this is the conduit of how all

2321
02:14:58,079 --> 02:15:01,439
this stuff is connected. And when you read the history

2322
02:15:01,479 --> 02:15:03,520
of Eslin, you see that the government was not interested

2323
02:15:03,520 --> 02:15:05,399
in shutting all this stuff down, you know, the way

2324
02:15:05,399 --> 02:15:07,640
that it's present as the counter culture, right, they're fighting

2325
02:15:07,680 --> 02:15:10,880
against the man. But even in Kreipel's book, which is

2326
02:15:10,920 --> 02:15:16,079
celebrated by the founder of the Eslin Institute, it clearly

2327
02:15:16,159 --> 02:15:18,720
shows that the government was retarded.

2328
02:15:18,840 --> 02:15:21,199
Speaker 1: I hate that narrative so much. Just like the CIA,

2329
02:15:21,439 --> 02:15:25,319
the Foundations, the Thing tanks, the military, the Pentagon bankers,

2330
02:15:25,359 --> 02:15:29,439
they're all putting zillions of dollars into those exactly exactly.

2331
02:15:29,439 --> 02:15:32,880
Speaker 2: And just like you you pointed out about maps, Maps

2332
02:15:32,960 --> 02:15:36,600
is now the academically respected study of like psychedelics. So

2333
02:15:36,640 --> 02:15:38,960
if you are an academic, you're going to be affiliated

2334
02:15:39,000 --> 02:15:42,079
with this group and publish your research and association with them.

2335
02:15:42,800 --> 02:15:45,680
And again that is all tied back to the Eslin Institute,

2336
02:15:45,880 --> 02:15:48,399
which as you said, is tied with Soros funding and

2337
02:15:48,399 --> 02:15:52,800
globaliss initiatives and all that different stuff. Because it's fundamentally perennialus.

2338
02:15:52,800 --> 02:15:56,319
So the thing about Eslin that they don't accept is

2339
02:15:56,359 --> 02:15:59,479
if you to say one religion is absolutely.

2340
02:15:59,039 --> 02:16:01,520
Speaker 1: True, the way the truth life John fourteen six. Right,

2341
02:16:01,960 --> 02:16:03,880
that's the only thing that you can't see kick out.

2342
02:16:04,119 --> 02:16:07,039
Speaker 2: But if you're interested in perennialism, which is the basis

2343
02:16:07,039 --> 02:16:10,279
of that entire project, you're warmly welcomed and they don't

2344
02:16:10,319 --> 02:16:11,920
care where you come from or what you're into.

2345
02:16:12,720 --> 02:16:16,600
Speaker 1: I would add too, people overlook that Crowley is also

2346
02:16:16,920 --> 02:16:21,960
the father of the modern drug counterculture, right because Croley

2347
02:16:22,039 --> 02:16:26,439
wrote his drug Diary way before even Huxley was doing stuff,

2348
02:16:26,520 --> 02:16:30,039
and Huxley would go and do that. They would go

2349
02:16:30,119 --> 02:16:33,280
to orgies and drug parties together, him and Crowley, and

2350
02:16:33,360 --> 02:16:37,399
so doctor Richard Spence theorizes that Huxley got the idea

2351
02:16:37,680 --> 02:16:40,959
for drug experimentation, which is what would become in k Ultra,

2352
02:16:41,639 --> 02:16:44,520
through reading Croley's drug Diary. And remember that Crowley was

2353
02:16:44,600 --> 02:16:48,360
of course an asset for British intelligence, so these things

2354
02:16:48,399 --> 02:16:51,719
always overlap, and this is decades before the existence of Esslin.

2355
02:16:52,639 --> 02:16:56,879
Speaker 2: And even tied with that general history is Jack Parsons,

2356
02:16:57,040 --> 02:16:58,959
who was a member of the Hermitic Golden Downs with

2357
02:16:59,000 --> 02:17:02,399
Alis Da Crowley. They have of falling out because Parsons

2358
02:17:02,520 --> 02:17:05,479
was more radical than Crowley was here according to Crowley.

2359
02:17:06,079 --> 02:17:08,879
And a little tidbit about l Ron Hubbard, founder of

2360
02:17:08,920 --> 02:17:14,239
science uh Scientology is they he he documented an attempt

2361
02:17:14,239 --> 02:17:17,479
that Jack Parsons had to give birth to the Antichrist,

2362
02:17:17,559 --> 02:17:21,079
in which him Babylon Work committed, yeah, participate in a

2363
02:17:21,120 --> 02:17:24,719
sexual ritual with Jack Parson's girlfriend at the time, which

2364
02:17:24,840 --> 02:17:27,559
ended with l Ron Hubbard being ashamed of himself because

2365
02:17:27,559 --> 02:17:29,600
he's watching Jack Parson masturbade.

2366
02:17:30,120 --> 02:17:33,120
Speaker 1: Well. Also in Craig Heimbinger's book, he even alleges that

2367
02:17:33,719 --> 02:17:37,600
Parsons was sleeping with his mom because in one of

2368
02:17:37,319 --> 02:17:41,760
the Suckybius rituals he believed that you know, I n

2369
02:17:41,879 --> 02:17:43,959
c E. S. T. Was was required for that.

2370
02:17:45,520 --> 02:17:46,600
Speaker 2: They're into weird stuff.

2371
02:17:47,360 --> 02:17:49,120
Speaker 1: Red Fox ten dollars d. Do you remember what the

2372
02:17:49,120 --> 02:17:51,520
military study was called? If you're referring to the one

2373
02:17:51,559 --> 02:17:57,680
that I mentioned about, uh like black ops and positive Thinking,

2374
02:17:58,239 --> 02:18:01,399
It's it's from a one book that was published I

2375
02:18:01,440 --> 02:18:04,920
think by an Australian guy, and I did a podcast

2376
02:18:05,000 --> 02:18:07,440
on this because this is a really obscure, hard to

2377
02:18:07,479 --> 02:18:10,479
find book and if you go to my rock fin

2378
02:18:10,600 --> 02:18:12,840
I don't. I think it's it's probably for members too,

2379
02:18:12,879 --> 02:18:15,479
but it's like at Rocktin. It is something like MK

2380
02:18:15,680 --> 02:18:20,879
Ultra in Australia because people don't even know that M

2381
02:18:20,959 --> 02:18:23,959
culture wasn't just in America and Canada, it was actually

2382
02:18:24,040 --> 02:18:27,559
at universities all over the world. And uh, I mean

2383
02:18:27,600 --> 02:18:30,319
it's a lot. There needs to be like new research

2384
02:18:30,399 --> 02:18:33,639
done on this because I didn't even realize that like

2385
02:18:33,719 --> 02:18:35,879
Carl Jung and you and Cameron were they were at

2386
02:18:36,200 --> 02:18:40,719
they were at Bergoldsey in Switzerland doing experiments and people

2387
02:18:40,719 --> 02:18:42,319
don't even talk about or know this.

2388
02:18:42,680 --> 02:18:46,319
Speaker 2: Well, the Sandoz lab where Albert Hoffman created LSD was also.

2389
02:18:46,040 --> 02:18:50,600
Speaker 1: In Switchland, exactly exactly, and some guy wrote this book.

2390
02:18:50,760 --> 02:18:53,200
I'll have to I found it just randomly on like

2391
02:18:53,239 --> 02:18:57,319
a message board somewhere. I don't even remember the name

2392
02:18:57,319 --> 02:18:58,559
of it. I'll have to dig it up. But he

2393
02:18:58,600 --> 02:19:02,680
wrote a book about the history of M culture projects

2394
02:19:02,719 --> 02:19:06,639
in Australia basically, so there was all this research that

2395
02:19:06,799 --> 02:19:11,479
was done, even supposedly that serial killer who was doing

2396
02:19:11,520 --> 02:19:14,399
sleep studies and basically killed dozens of people at a

2397
02:19:14,399 --> 02:19:17,040
psychiatric and instead he's a famous He's most famous serial

2398
02:19:17,079 --> 02:19:20,120
killer in Australia. That was actually part of mkultr. He

2399
02:19:20,200 --> 02:19:23,840
was studying putting people to sleep to the point of

2400
02:19:23,879 --> 02:19:25,520
death and then bringing them back so like they're when

2401
02:19:25,559 --> 02:19:27,559
their heart rate would go all the way down to death,

2402
02:19:27,600 --> 02:19:30,959
and then bringing them back to see what he could

2403
02:19:30,959 --> 02:19:33,159
figure out. I mean, but he was actually just a

2404
02:19:33,200 --> 02:19:35,879
serial killer. He's getting off on doing it. I forget

2405
02:19:35,879 --> 02:19:40,280
that guy's named doctor Henry something. But that's all basically

2406
02:19:40,479 --> 02:19:42,840
all of it. Australia is a bunch of m kults

2407
02:19:42,879 --> 02:19:44,799
stuff is all it is. But I did not remember

2408
02:19:44,799 --> 02:19:46,680
the name of the book. I'd have to dig it up,

2409
02:19:47,079 --> 02:19:50,479
but it is in my archive under m Cultra stuff.

2410
02:19:50,520 --> 02:19:52,120
You could find it in there. And in that talk

2411
02:19:52,440 --> 02:19:57,280
I referenced the book random Name two dollars. Mister Mythos

2412
02:19:57,440 --> 02:20:00,959
did an excellent video on stargate. I don't mister Mythos,

2413
02:20:01,000 --> 02:20:04,120
but I will say that doctor David Patrick Harry and

2414
02:20:04,159 --> 02:20:06,239
I did a really good talk on stargates, so I

2415
02:20:06,239 --> 02:20:08,559
would say, check out ours. I don't know this other dude.

2416
02:20:08,840 --> 02:20:14,040
A penny two euros. What is your SBD? What does

2417
02:20:14,040 --> 02:20:20,920
that sound for? We don't know what that means? Death

2418
02:20:20,920 --> 02:20:25,959
culture ten dollars, what do you guys take on intentional communities?

2419
02:20:27,159 --> 02:20:29,440
What are your thoughts, if you have any, it would

2420
02:20:29,479 --> 02:20:33,799
be get to develop social capital for Orthodox You know,

2421
02:20:34,559 --> 02:20:36,840
this does exist to a degree amongst Orthodox there are

2422
02:20:36,840 --> 02:20:42,079
people who are almost experimenting but attempting to create Orthodox

2423
02:20:42,120 --> 02:20:45,760
only communities sort of outside of town. And I mean

2424
02:20:45,799 --> 02:20:50,399
I think that that's probably there a wise approach in

2425
02:20:50,520 --> 02:20:53,840
terms of this country sort of going downhill. I don't

2426
02:20:54,040 --> 02:20:56,639
think that would be a problem. But I think when

2427
02:20:56,680 --> 02:21:01,280
you talk about intentional communities with like yoga chicks and

2428
02:21:01,399 --> 02:21:07,040
you know, man bun dudes doing you know, meditation, that's

2429
02:21:07,040 --> 02:21:09,680
probably not going to work out too well. So what

2430
02:21:09,719 --> 02:21:11,319
do you think about intentional communities?

2431
02:21:13,719 --> 02:21:15,959
Speaker 2: I mean, I think long term it's it's probably a

2432
02:21:16,000 --> 02:21:18,719
good idea. We talk about this in some of our

2433
02:21:18,760 --> 02:21:23,360
group meetings about in an ideal world, it'd be nice

2434
02:21:23,399 --> 02:21:25,799
if there were hubs of Orthodox all across the United

2435
02:21:25,840 --> 02:21:30,520
States that theoretically Orthodox Christians could travel and stop from

2436
02:21:30,520 --> 02:21:34,399
community to community. Obviously, there's one kind of already growing

2437
02:21:34,440 --> 02:21:38,680
and exists outside Saint Anthony's in Arizona. I mean, they

2438
02:21:38,760 --> 02:21:43,559
basically have their own neighborhood. So I think if if

2439
02:21:43,680 --> 02:21:46,840
people were able to actually organize. That's the difficult part.

2440
02:21:46,879 --> 02:21:49,559
I think. First we need to begin with some type

2441
02:21:49,559 --> 02:21:54,719
of some type of document that can demonstrate all the

2442
02:21:54,799 --> 02:21:57,360
Orthodox business owners. So if you live in upstate New

2443
02:21:57,440 --> 02:22:00,200
York and there's an Orthodox guy that follows Jay and

2444
02:22:00,239 --> 02:22:03,399
he's a plumber, go hire him. We need to create

2445
02:22:03,440 --> 02:22:06,479
some type of economic incentive first of all, which we're

2446
02:22:06,479 --> 02:22:08,719
so disconnected, we're so small in the United States. It's

2447
02:22:08,799 --> 02:22:12,280
kind of hard. But you know, one of the ideas

2448
02:22:12,280 --> 02:22:15,600
I had a place like Mississippi. There's like old towns

2449
02:22:15,719 --> 02:22:18,159
that have like one hundred to two hundred people that

2450
02:22:18,319 --> 02:22:20,200
used to be thousands of people live there, and so

2451
02:22:20,200 --> 02:22:25,440
they have like an infrastructure old, kind of decrepit. But theoretically,

2452
02:22:25,760 --> 02:22:28,920
imagine like one hundred Orthodox families move into a town

2453
02:22:29,479 --> 02:22:32,399
that has infrastructure like that and begins to rejuvenate it,

2454
02:22:32,440 --> 02:22:34,399
and then we can elect our own mayor and we

2455
02:22:34,399 --> 02:22:36,719
could kind of build our own local government with something

2456
02:22:36,760 --> 02:22:41,360
that already exists. But again, making that happen logistically is

2457
02:22:41,440 --> 02:22:45,520
just pretty difficult. But if you know people that are

2458
02:22:45,520 --> 02:22:48,760
interested have the same values, yeah, absolutely, we need more

2459
02:22:49,200 --> 02:22:51,559
of community and we need places where people can actually

2460
02:22:51,840 --> 02:22:54,360
have reassurance with each other and their neighbor.

2461
02:22:55,920 --> 02:22:59,760
Speaker 1: Big iron Fi dollars Jay, Doctor David Patrick carry, there's

2462
02:22:59,760 --> 02:23:04,200
an arrative that early Christians use psychedelics. I doubt it

2463
02:23:04,280 --> 02:23:06,680
was ever accepted. Do you think this is credible? Well,

2464
02:23:06,719 --> 02:23:09,520
you must have missed the first hour, because we covered

2465
02:23:09,559 --> 02:23:11,360
all that in the first hour. And no, we don't

2466
02:23:11,360 --> 02:23:17,639
believe that. A Panini says SBD means squat, bench deadlift.

2467
02:23:17,719 --> 02:23:21,719
So doctor David, what is your SBD? Silent but deadly.

2468
02:23:22,879 --> 02:23:26,479
Speaker 2: I don't do any maxing right now, so everything I'm

2469
02:23:26,520 --> 02:23:30,120
doing is like eight to fifteen reps, so squats, a

2470
02:23:30,159 --> 02:23:34,159
couple forty five's on each side, same with bench, and

2471
02:23:34,200 --> 02:23:37,920
probably three plates and a twenty five on deadlift stuff

2472
02:23:37,959 --> 02:23:40,239
like that. But I'm not a powerlifter, so I really

2473
02:23:40,280 --> 02:23:42,600
don't do any maxing out and try to find the

2474
02:23:42,639 --> 02:23:43,639
max amount of weight.

2475
02:23:43,479 --> 02:23:47,559
Speaker 1: I can lift. Yeah, Also, I would say, I mean,

2476
02:23:47,559 --> 02:23:50,799
this is just my opinion, but there are some issues

2477
02:23:50,959 --> 02:23:54,440
like for example, ro Coorus had some issues with the

2478
02:23:54,639 --> 02:24:01,120
monasteries in Arizona, and when Laity go or confession or

2479
02:24:01,159 --> 02:24:03,399
they go to the monasteries, think they thinking that they're

2480
02:24:03,440 --> 02:24:06,680
being like super pious, and then they get advice that

2481
02:24:07,079 --> 02:24:11,840
monastics give to other monastics. There have been multiple problems

2482
02:24:11,879 --> 02:24:15,040
with this. Yes, so it may not be the best

2483
02:24:15,120 --> 02:24:17,360
idea to try if you're gonna set up an intentional

2484
02:24:17,360 --> 02:24:21,040
community to necessarily think that we have to move next

2485
02:24:21,040 --> 02:24:24,399
to a monastery. And I mean, I'm not saying you can't,

2486
02:24:24,479 --> 02:24:26,760
but I'm just saying that may not be like the

2487
02:24:26,799 --> 02:24:30,920
ideal situation. But that's because I'm in rocorps and there's

2488
02:24:30,959 --> 02:24:35,680
certain issues with that. Bon Jovi nineteen twelve, fifty dollars

2489
02:24:35,719 --> 02:24:37,920
and says nothing, Well, thank you so much. Appreciate that,

2490
02:24:39,280 --> 02:24:41,559
sir Jeff cost Us. I'm sorry about the Galway storm

2491
02:24:41,559 --> 02:24:43,399
gut question. You don't have to apologize. That's just a

2492
02:24:43,520 --> 02:24:46,200
question that you know. We have answered that. I appreciate

2493
02:24:46,239 --> 02:24:49,200
you answering it in different ways, detail ways. Keep up

2494
02:24:49,200 --> 02:24:50,680
the good word. Yeah, I would just say riad A

2495
02:24:51,000 --> 02:24:54,120
creation x Nilo by William Lane Craig, even though I

2496
02:24:54,120 --> 02:24:59,040
don't typically recommend William Lane Craig. But okay, so guys,

2497
02:24:59,040 --> 02:25:00,719
don't want to remind you to. I have a show sponsor,

2498
02:25:00,760 --> 02:25:04,440
which is chalk dot comchoq dot com, the best in supplementation.

2499
02:25:04,920 --> 02:25:07,719
You've got Oshawa Ganda for mental focus. You've got the

2500
02:25:07,760 --> 02:25:11,559
Tonkatilie for boosting testosterone, You've got the Chad mode for

2501
02:25:11,600 --> 02:25:14,079
pre workout. All those great products over at chalk dot

2502
02:25:14,079 --> 02:25:17,639
com choq dot com. Also to remind you guys that

2503
02:25:17,760 --> 02:25:21,319
next up, I'm halfway through Siphadin almost is excellent book,

2504
02:25:21,719 --> 02:25:24,520
the Bitcoin Standard. The first half of the book covers

2505
02:25:24,559 --> 02:25:27,000
the history of money. I didn't even realize that you're

2506
02:25:27,040 --> 02:25:30,399
basically getting an entire history lesson on money. Of course,

2507
02:25:30,440 --> 02:25:34,239
he is coming from the Austrian school of economics largely,

2508
02:25:34,280 --> 02:25:36,760
which is I would say about eighty to ninety percent correct.

2509
02:25:36,799 --> 02:25:40,600
I have some reservations about Austrian economics, but overall it's

2510
02:25:40,719 --> 02:25:45,479
definitely way better than socialist or Keynesian economics, of which

2511
02:25:45,799 --> 02:25:48,639
the first half is a great critique. The second half

2512
02:25:48,680 --> 02:25:53,159
then gets into the value proposition for bitcoin as a currency,

2513
02:25:53,200 --> 02:25:58,239
so we're gonna be covering that next maybe tomorrow. We'll

2514
02:25:58,239 --> 02:26:00,479
see when I'm ready to do a part one, So

2515
02:26:00,559 --> 02:26:02,959
be sure and come on over and listen to our

2516
02:26:03,040 --> 02:26:06,360
defense a bigcoin. I'm gonna be dealing with all the objections.

2517
02:26:06,680 --> 02:26:08,200
I've heard them all a million times for the last

2518
02:26:08,319 --> 02:26:09,959
nine years. I'm sure all of you and the audience

2519
02:26:10,000 --> 02:26:12,319
are going to have all the same thought objections, so

2520
02:26:12,399 --> 02:26:15,040
go ahead and bring it. I'm ready. Let's get into

2521
02:26:15,040 --> 02:26:18,840
Siphidine's book. And then of course we have a doctor

2522
02:26:18,920 --> 02:26:21,000
David Patrick. Harry's channel is linked to be sure and

2523
02:26:21,079 --> 02:26:24,360
follow him, and he is in the show description and

2524
02:26:24,399 --> 02:26:30,280
his logos academy. Do you have any other issues, any

2525
02:26:30,319 --> 02:26:32,079
other things on your mind you want to get? By

2526
02:26:32,079 --> 02:26:34,680
the way, who remind everybody? The last time that Cotel

2527
02:26:34,719 --> 02:26:36,040
and I did is stream. It was one of my

2528
02:26:36,079 --> 02:26:39,280
favorites because he brought me on to talk about British

2529
02:26:39,319 --> 02:26:43,040
intelligence and Islam. I love talking about espionage and spy stuff,

2530
02:26:43,040 --> 02:26:45,440
probably more than anything else. Well, I said that it's

2531
02:26:45,479 --> 02:26:47,959
equal up there with I mean, obviously I talk about theology,

2532
02:26:47,959 --> 02:26:50,239
but I'm saying like, other than the theological stuff, I

2533
02:26:50,360 --> 02:26:52,200
like to talk about the spy stuff and I like

2534
02:26:52,239 --> 02:26:54,680
to do the comedic stuff. So that's up there. So

2535
02:26:55,239 --> 02:26:57,479
be sure and check out our stream on British intelligence

2536
02:26:57,600 --> 02:27:02,479
and Islam. That was a fascinating topic. Kotol, What is

2537
02:27:02,520 --> 02:27:05,120
on your mind? What are you doing next? What should

2538
02:27:05,159 --> 02:27:05,920
we be looking for?

2539
02:27:08,239 --> 02:27:09,840
Speaker 2: I mean the big thing that I'm doing next is

2540
02:27:09,959 --> 02:27:13,120
as I mentioned earlier, is trying to get this dissertation published,

2541
02:27:13,520 --> 02:27:17,440
and so some of the stuff, as I kind of

2542
02:27:17,440 --> 02:27:20,079
gave an overview, I don't want to repeat myself, but

2543
02:27:20,719 --> 02:27:24,959
if you're interested in a detailed and then again, this

2544
02:27:25,040 --> 02:27:30,680
is very academic take on comparing Orthodox deification theosis and

2545
02:27:30,719 --> 02:27:32,680
how this has kind of been bastardized and how we

2546
02:27:32,719 --> 02:27:36,120
got to a point in which transhumanism is actually competing

2547
02:27:36,200 --> 02:27:40,000
with other Christian sentiments. And so there there is like

2548
02:27:40,040 --> 02:27:44,600
the Christian Transhumanist Association. It's actually I think headquartered in Tennessee,

2549
02:27:44,760 --> 02:27:46,239
maybe around Nashville.

2550
02:27:47,319 --> 02:27:49,280
Speaker 1: Even though so that's in our neighborhood.

2551
02:27:49,680 --> 02:27:56,159
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's and it's not it's not really super influential,

2552
02:27:56,760 --> 02:27:59,440
but they are very outspoken and they try to they

2553
02:27:59,479 --> 02:28:02,959
try to corporate like Saint Maximus the Confessor and Orthodox

2554
02:28:03,000 --> 02:28:06,879
Saints as like oh look again, they're not Orthodox. It's

2555
02:28:06,920 --> 02:28:10,200
a very progressive form of Christianity. It's non denominational. But

2556
02:28:10,399 --> 02:28:14,280
they are constantly appealing to Orthodox theosis as being the

2557
02:28:14,360 --> 02:28:19,520
continuity and strand that transhumanists is emerging from. And so

2558
02:28:19,600 --> 02:28:22,280
the dissertation, like, if you're interested in theories of mine,

2559
02:28:22,319 --> 02:28:26,280
we're talking about functionalism and what is the metaphysics of

2560
02:28:26,280 --> 02:28:31,200
a transhumanist paradigm, and these various groups that are explicitly

2561
02:28:31,719 --> 02:28:35,000
religious in they're transhumanism. You know, there's the Alcore Life

2562
02:28:35,040 --> 02:28:37,959
Extension Center in Scottsdale, Arizona, this where they're doing cryonic

2563
02:28:38,000 --> 02:28:41,040
freezing and stuff like that. And the head philosopher of

2564
02:28:41,040 --> 02:28:46,280
transhumanism is Max Moore. He's an atheist guy who actually

2565
02:28:46,319 --> 02:28:49,120
has an article that I quote in the dissertation called

2566
02:28:49,120 --> 02:28:52,200
in Praise of the Devil where he appeals to Satan.

2567
02:28:53,079 --> 02:28:56,920
He argues, not an ontologically real figure, but a perfect

2568
02:28:57,000 --> 02:29:02,559
archetype to rebel against this constraining system of Christian morality,

2569
02:29:02,559 --> 02:29:05,479
and Christian it's almost like a Nietzschean thing, like the

2570
02:29:05,559 --> 02:29:09,719
Christian slave morality. So that transhumanism can actually elevate us

2571
02:29:09,799 --> 02:29:14,000
to the promise that Lucifer, the true inspiration of human liberation,

2572
02:29:14,920 --> 02:29:20,680
can move us towards. And so that dissertation, like I said,

2573
02:29:20,680 --> 02:29:22,920
it's going to be a book titled Return to Babylon

2574
02:29:22,959 --> 02:29:26,239
From Adam to Antichrist is the kind of working title

2575
02:29:26,280 --> 02:29:28,879
that I got. I'm trying to come up with a

2576
02:29:28,920 --> 02:29:32,520
book cover right now. And so we haven't fully landed

2577
02:29:32,559 --> 02:29:36,239
on one that's perfect. But the general theme I was thinking,

2578
02:29:36,399 --> 02:29:38,639
and anybody has advised, feel free to reach out to me,

2579
02:29:38,799 --> 02:29:43,760
was something like an apocalyptic dystopian wasteland where a Darwinian

2580
02:29:43,799 --> 02:29:46,840
evolution of man actually begins with like fallen atom and

2581
02:29:46,920 --> 02:29:51,079
leads to the transhumanist Antichrist, and behind them is like

2582
02:29:51,120 --> 02:29:55,680
an Orthodox Byzantine church or something, and it's not affected

2583
02:29:55,719 --> 02:29:58,520
by the detritus and all the debris of the dystopian

2584
02:29:58,559 --> 02:30:02,680
scene behind it, because there's not really again the academic

2585
02:30:02,719 --> 02:30:06,440
title so long and verbose that it it's not catchy.

2586
02:30:06,520 --> 02:30:08,680
So I came up with return to Babylon from Adam

2587
02:30:08,719 --> 02:30:11,920
to Antichrist, and I hope that's something of that theme. Again,

2588
02:30:11,959 --> 02:30:13,959
we haven't landed on something. I've been trying to use

2589
02:30:14,079 --> 02:30:16,879
AI and stuff to get a template, and then my

2590
02:30:16,920 --> 02:30:19,440
thumbnail guy who is going to help actually create the

2591
02:30:19,479 --> 02:30:23,319
actual book cover, so it's not just AI generated. But

2592
02:30:23,399 --> 02:30:25,760
I hope, as I said, to have that out by August.

2593
02:30:27,319 --> 02:30:29,680
And so I launched the Logos Academy. That was the

2594
02:30:29,680 --> 02:30:32,520
big one after the whatever podcast, is trying to launch

2595
02:30:32,559 --> 02:30:36,200
the community, get all the content up there again. If

2596
02:30:36,239 --> 02:30:38,639
you joined today, it's it's the last day. To get

2597
02:30:38,680 --> 02:30:40,959
the founding member price, which is just twenty five dollars,

2598
02:30:41,040 --> 02:30:43,079
and if you purchase for the full year, it's two fifty.

2599
02:30:43,120 --> 02:30:45,000
So you get two months free and you get a

2600
02:30:45,000 --> 02:30:47,079
free week. So if you sign up, you automatically get

2601
02:30:47,079 --> 02:30:48,600
a free week trial. So if you get on there

2602
02:30:48,600 --> 02:30:48,959
and you like.

2603
02:30:49,159 --> 02:30:55,000
Speaker 1: Get free weed, yeah, free weed, it sounds lot. Free week.

2604
02:30:55,159 --> 02:30:55,600
That was a joke.

2605
02:30:55,760 --> 02:30:59,079
Speaker 2: Free week. Yeah. So you get on there and you're like, yeah,

2606
02:30:59,120 --> 02:31:02,639
this deep h is full of shit, he doesn't you know? Okay,

2607
02:31:02,920 --> 02:31:05,280
you can leave and not spend any your money. I

2608
02:31:05,280 --> 02:31:07,319
would assume if you spend your time and you actually

2609
02:31:07,319 --> 02:31:08,959
engage with the guys in the community, you're going to

2610
02:31:09,040 --> 02:31:11,280
appreciate it and find it worth your value. I mean,

2611
02:31:11,319 --> 02:31:13,680
this is gonna My goal is once we have three

2612
02:31:13,840 --> 02:31:17,079
four courses, you know, the price to be a member

2613
02:31:17,120 --> 02:31:19,719
is going to continually to go up. So if that's

2614
02:31:19,719 --> 02:31:23,440
something you're interested in, and so, as I said, trying

2615
02:31:23,440 --> 02:31:25,159
to get some ebooks out. So by the end of

2616
02:31:25,200 --> 02:31:28,559
the year, my goal is to have one academic book,

2617
02:31:29,920 --> 02:31:32,120
which I know is not going to be a popular seller,

2618
02:31:32,440 --> 02:31:35,520
a couple general books for regular people, tied with courses

2619
02:31:35,680 --> 02:31:40,040
on the on the Academy. But then I was speaking

2620
02:31:40,079 --> 02:31:42,399
with and I mentioned, actually, Rachel thought this was a

2621
02:31:42,440 --> 02:31:45,159
great idea. Is I was thinking about writing a book

2622
02:31:45,319 --> 02:31:48,719
for an eighteen year old mail because you look at

2623
02:31:48,719 --> 02:31:52,079
like Relo Tomolo, he's got the rational mail or you know,

2624
02:31:52,079 --> 02:31:53,600
a lot of the people in the manosphere are these

2625
02:31:53,639 --> 02:31:56,440
online contents. I think Ruslan has his own book. They're

2626
02:31:56,559 --> 02:31:59,079
very general books for the average reader, yea. And so

2627
02:31:59,680 --> 02:32:02,040
everything that I've written is not for the average reader,

2628
02:32:02,079 --> 02:32:04,879
and it's not going to be popular. It's very academic.

2629
02:32:05,000 --> 02:32:09,159
So I thought for something more popular oriented, is I

2630
02:32:09,159 --> 02:32:10,399
was going to do it write a book called The

2631
02:32:10,440 --> 02:32:13,719
Crisis of Man, and I want to start on this

2632
02:32:13,760 --> 02:32:15,879
by the end of the year and basically bring an

2633
02:32:15,920 --> 02:32:18,719
eighteen year old male who knows nothing up to speed

2634
02:32:18,959 --> 02:32:23,079
on the state of the world, so central banking, federal reserve,

2635
02:32:23,200 --> 02:32:27,280
Fiat currency, the meaning crisis, the death of God, you know,

2636
02:32:27,360 --> 02:32:29,159
the history of philosophy, how we get to the post

2637
02:32:29,159 --> 02:32:32,959
modern turn, the death of masculinity, the destruction of a

2638
02:32:33,120 --> 02:32:36,200
nuclear families, all this different stuff that we're dealing with

2639
02:32:36,280 --> 02:32:39,920
in culture, and write it not so much for somebody

2640
02:32:39,959 --> 02:32:42,680
who has a background knowledge in this stuff, but assuming

2641
02:32:42,840 --> 02:32:46,079
an eighteen year old guy knows absolutely nothing to have

2642
02:32:46,159 --> 02:32:47,959
like a one hundred and fifty one hundred and seventy

2643
02:32:47,959 --> 02:32:50,520
five page book that kind of brings them up to speed.

2644
02:32:50,559 --> 02:32:53,680
And then the conclusion is orthodoxy. But it's not going

2645
02:32:53,719 --> 02:32:56,639
to be marketed as an orthodox book. It's just going

2646
02:32:56,680 --> 02:32:59,520
to demonstrate everything that we're dealing with again, the crisis

2647
02:32:59,520 --> 02:33:02,840
of man, why orthodoxy is the ultimate solution. So my

2648
02:33:02,959 --> 02:33:06,200
goal is that will be a general reader, a physical

2649
02:33:06,239 --> 02:33:09,360
copy book, and I hope to have that done by

2650
02:33:09,399 --> 02:33:13,040
like next summer. So that's kind of the big things

2651
02:33:13,239 --> 02:33:16,879
on the agenda. And of course creating streams so you know,

2652
02:33:17,000 --> 02:33:19,600
church eternal logos, that's always gonna kind of be the

2653
02:33:19,639 --> 02:33:22,360
same thing. And then I have an old YouTube channel

2654
02:33:22,360 --> 02:33:24,440
that we mentioned, the one on Psychedelics that I've kind

2655
02:33:24,440 --> 02:33:27,680
of rebranded as doctor David Patrick Harry, and I think

2656
02:33:27,719 --> 02:33:30,360
that's gonna be more of like whatever's the popular topic

2657
02:33:30,360 --> 02:33:32,680
people are talking about. Do like video reviews. I mean

2658
02:33:32,680 --> 02:33:35,079
you look at like the Daily Wires level of content.

2659
02:33:35,079 --> 02:33:37,760
It's really just commentary on things that the people are doing.

2660
02:33:37,959 --> 02:33:40,000
Speaker 1: I watched it one hour of Ben Shapiro, and I

2661
02:33:40,040 --> 02:33:42,200
was just sick because I've never watched it, and it's like,

2662
02:33:42,280 --> 02:33:44,479
basically he just watches a clip and then tells you

2663
02:33:44,520 --> 02:33:46,000
what was in the clip that you just watched, And

2664
02:33:46,040 --> 02:33:47,840
I'm like, well, why are people paying for this? I

2665
02:33:47,879 --> 02:33:50,799
don't understand, literally, what's the value in this is so lame?

2666
02:33:52,600 --> 02:33:54,680
Speaker 2: Basically the Daily Wire, Yeah, p.

2667
02:33:54,760 --> 02:33:58,799
Speaker 1: Man two dollars. Is there an Elamite Islamistan, Mason, Persian

2668
02:33:58,920 --> 02:34:02,559
caa connection? I don't know. It's a lot of things

2669
02:34:02,600 --> 02:34:04,959
strung together. I think the CIA definitely has an interest

2670
02:34:05,040 --> 02:34:09,159
in Shia Islam and Iran and in that sense Persia.

2671
02:34:09,239 --> 02:34:11,120
I don't know about all that other stuff though. V

2672
02:34:11,159 --> 02:34:15,239
Scott two dollars. Is the site something that women can

2673
02:34:15,280 --> 02:34:16,959
eventually join or only men?

2674
02:34:18,440 --> 02:34:21,280
Speaker 2: It's only for men right now. So last night we

2675
02:34:21,319 --> 02:34:24,680
had our first group meeting and it was overwhelmingly supported

2676
02:34:24,680 --> 02:34:27,799
by all the men that no women can join our meetings.

2677
02:34:29,200 --> 02:34:31,760
It's just an all male space. It's for male formation,

2678
02:34:31,920 --> 02:34:34,799
and we got guys that are very successful, like mature men,

2679
02:34:36,280 --> 02:34:39,319
and so the goal is to get young guys, established

2680
02:34:39,319 --> 02:34:41,879
men together and then talk about and learn about a

2681
02:34:41,920 --> 02:34:47,399
variety of different things. So no, no women are allowed. Unfortunately,

2682
02:34:47,440 --> 02:34:50,600
I'm sure there's women only spaces, but the logos against.

2683
02:34:50,280 --> 02:34:52,239
Speaker 1: It's a woman. It's a black woman only space over

2684
02:34:52,239 --> 02:34:55,559
here on my channel. So all of you ladies, especially

2685
02:34:55,600 --> 02:34:57,799
black ladies, You're all welcome over here on my channel,

2686
02:34:58,200 --> 02:35:02,159
even though co Tell doesn't want you. I do, right,

2687
02:35:02,399 --> 02:35:04,639
I'm like Lady Liberty over here. I got that torch.

2688
02:35:05,040 --> 02:35:09,079
Bring me all of your sullen masses and your black

2689
02:35:09,159 --> 02:35:13,440
ladies over here on my channel. I'm just kidding. You

2690
02:35:13,479 --> 02:35:17,200
look mad? Is that making you? You look like you're mad.

2691
02:35:17,680 --> 02:35:19,680
We've been making jokes on my channel for a while

2692
02:35:19,719 --> 02:35:24,520
now that like there's only like nine percent female audience

2693
02:35:24,520 --> 02:35:26,959
of my channel in terms of the demographics, but I

2694
02:35:27,040 --> 02:35:29,280
keep saying, like black people popping up in the comments.

2695
02:35:29,280 --> 02:35:31,120
So I'm thinking, like maybe I just have like nine

2696
02:35:31,120 --> 02:35:38,639
percent black girl audience. But I'm just joking. I'm just joking,

2697
02:35:39,239 --> 02:35:41,719
you know. I think we need more all male spaces.

2698
02:35:41,799 --> 02:35:45,959
It doesn't even exist anymore. And that like feminist will

2699
02:35:46,000 --> 02:35:47,719
like sue you if you try to create that kind

2700
02:35:47,719 --> 02:35:50,639
of stuff on a big scale, Like if you try

2701
02:35:50,639 --> 02:35:53,239
to create a business, you know, like a cigar bar

2702
02:35:53,399 --> 02:35:56,079
that's only for you know, guys, and then you'll get

2703
02:35:56,079 --> 02:35:59,120
feminists it'll sue you. It's it's just insane. V Scott

2704
02:35:59,159 --> 02:35:59,440
says to