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Speaker 1: Welcome to Next Level Soul, the place where we deep

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dive into the mysteries of existence, uncover hidden layers of consciousness,

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and explore the journey of the soul. I'm your host,

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Alex Ferrari, and every week we sit down with the

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world's leading spiritual teachers, mystics, scientists, and truth seekers to

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illuminate the path towards awakening.

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space for transformation, a space for expansion, a space to

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remember who you really are. So take a deep breath,

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open your mind, and prepare to step into your next

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level soul.

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Speaker 3: Now.

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Level Soul, its host, or any of the companies they represent. Now,

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let's dive in to today's episode, like to welcome this

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show to Tom Saoni.

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Speaker 3: How you doing toe Very good, very good.

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Speaker 1: Thank you so much for coming on the show, my friend.

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I'm looking forward to our conversation about folklore and myth,

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which is your specialty.

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Speaker 2: Can you tell the audience a little bit.

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Speaker 1: About your background and what you've been studying.

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Speaker 2: For the last thirty twenty however long years.

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Speaker 3: In twenty five words or less, I can try. My

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own background is just unique and it probably has something

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to do with what I'm doing as an academic. So

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I grew up kind of out in the woods in Alaska,

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and my dad was kind of a bit of a survivalist.

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I din't didn't grow up around people very much. And

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then when I got to college, I went right from

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the backwoods of Alaska right to Harvard College, and I

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ended up becoming fascinated with the anthropology, like, you know,

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what is this species up to homosapiens apiens? And what

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are people? What is culture and all that? And I

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grew up, you know, with a lot of surrounded by

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a lot of Native culture. My name is sort of

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an anglicization of a native name. I'm not Native myself,

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but I have a lot of Native family members and

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you know, community members, friends and whatnot. So I growing

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up in that community, I was always really exposed to

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that sort of side of things, and it was always,

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you know, it's always been a part of my life.

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And then you know, then that was another part of

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the anthropology. I realized, especially in the rest of us,

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like natives don't play that big of a role in

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the culture, and so that's a part of it too.

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I really think that, you know, the indigenous languages and

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the mythologies and world views, and there's just a lot

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out there that's really beautiful. Nicko Dym, you know that

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I think people could learn a lot of We don't

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teach it enough. I don't think on our American school system.

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Speaker 1: Without without question, I come from a storytelling background, and

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how so I've studied myth and obviously Joseph Campbell and

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everything that he's done, and it is it.

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Speaker 2: Is the is they say.

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Speaker 1: I think George Lucas said, the meat and potatoes of

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a of a species is carried around through folklore and

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myth would you agree.

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Speaker 3: Well, yeah, stories in general, right, I mean, you know,

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how do we think of the world. Usually it's it's

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not just like isolated facts, but people. People tell stories

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and they put together stories. You have the story of

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your you know, your nation, your religion, your your your people.

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Where did you know? Then the myths where did we

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all come from? Right? Where did this all start? Or

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where's it all going? And even individual stories you kind

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of walk around like, this is my story. I grew

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up in Alaska. You know, everybody has these narratives. We

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talk about other people's stories, and you know, politics is

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often in stories. So I think that that's really what

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gives human culture. It's its power, is telling and sharing

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stories and building those story worlds together. So that's you know,

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that's literature. But for me, a much bigger part of

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storytelling is is in folklore and mythology.

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Speaker 1: Now, can you share an example of a folklore tale

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that deeply embodies spiritual values in one way, shape or form.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so I think all of us are kind of

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spiritual value, right. They tell you what is spiritual in

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the world. They tell you what, you know, where's the

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spiritual stuff? So, you know, and the abraham a religion

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reached to the idea of heaven and that's it's kind

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of up right, So it's up there and the stars.

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And so if you ask people, are a point to heaven,

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everybody will point up right. Even though we know now

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we're on a little ball spinning around. So what's up

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now twelve years, twelve hours later is going to be

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down right, but there's still this idea that is up

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and so this in you know, this permeates our entire culture.

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You know, high is good in our culture. If I

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say you're going to get a high grade in my class,

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you know that's a good grade. High is good. Why

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is high good? Well, because that's where that's where God is,

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that's where the divine is, that's where you go when

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you die if you're a good person. Right, And of

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course there's different stories that put it up you know,

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very very differently. And you know, so one of the

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big differences that you see really with Native American stuff

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is the idea of souls that it's not just a

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huge and centric enterprise, right, I mean, in the abrahomic things.

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You've got God, the creative of the universe, is basically

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a guy usually represented like a God made man in

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his image, and the theology is that only people have souls,

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right that that you know, contrary to the movies, good

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dogs do not get to go to heaven. I mean,

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this is the official theology anyway, right that, so you

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might be ninety eight point five percent us genetically, but

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as zero percent soul, it has no soul at all.

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And yet if you go to the Native American traditions, there

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are stories, like you know, some of my nearly all

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of them, it's animals that are creators and they or

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even plants or even stones and they sort of create us.

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So that's a very different way of looking at things.

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So in the Native American view, like you know, do

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wolves have souls? Yes? You know that that's a real dynamic.

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You see, that's very very different between these two mystic views.

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So I know that Joseph Campbell stuff will tread it's

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easing like what all these mythshare in common? But I

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think there's a lot of beauty and what they their diversity,

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like how do they set up things differently? Right? Is

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what is the soul, what happens when you die? That's

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out there, and so again, you know, that's that's an

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interesting split right there with say Native American, all these

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various and different Native American traditions and languages and mythologies

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and religions, but they all share that, you know, wolves

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have souls.

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Speaker 1: So let me ask you then, from your research, when

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is the first time in folklore, in myth and story

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that the soul is introduced as a character element in

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these stories? Well, how far back does that concept go?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well, okay, so that's hard to answer me because

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we know it goes way back further than writing. Right,

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So how do we how do we have any record

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really of when this starts? And so it's hard to know.

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I mean, holmost sapiens sapiens have been us for like

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four hundred thousand years. Presumably we've been telling stories for

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at least four hundred thousand years. You know, we don't

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know about did homoirectors tell stories or protos stories? You know,

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we don't know, and I don't know how we would

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ever know, But presumably at some point we picked it

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up and it's you know, it's certainly been a part

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of the human condition, probably for as soon as we

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figured out language. I mean, I think one of the

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first things that people are going to besides the mundane

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stuff like you know, watch out, here comes a lion,

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you know. I think one of some of the first

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things people going to wonder about is is you know

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the power of things and what happens when you die? Right?

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I mean, you know, you're aware or you become aware

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that other people die, and I people want to talk

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about this. You know, people wonder what happened if you

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know you're going to die, right and you still't know

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what's that all about? Well, that that's I think that's

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been an eternal part of human culture, stories about wondering

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what this is all about?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think this we're the only species on

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the planet in my knowledge, that understands that it will

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die one day.

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Speaker 3: It does as far as we know. You know, honestly,

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do whales know, I don't know, you.

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Speaker 2: Know, do dolphins know?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: We were just beginning to figure out all the stuff

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that they're talking about. And what's interesting is that we

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do know that they're talking about a lot of stuff, right,

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So we do know that these guys are communicating a

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lot and nearly all animals are. I mean, you know,

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bats and certainly all of mammals. We talk a lot,

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so it's not just people, right, But we're just beginning

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to understand how to decode this, and they're getting closer, right,

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they're decoding dolphin and whale songs and stuff like that.

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So as far as we know, as far as we know,

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we're the only sort of storytelling species. I would love

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to be proved wrong on that. I think it'd be fascinating.

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But right now, as far as we know, this is

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what gives humans our punch.

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Speaker 1: Now there's another there's another aspect to spirituality, myth, myth, folklore,

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and also just spiritual texts, ancient texts that talk about

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the great illusion, the dream as the Aborigine call it,

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or maya in the ancient Indian text, where this is

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all essentially a matrix, a construct, a hologram. How far

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back do you see that or have you where have

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you come across that idea?

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Speaker 2: And it doesn't go across most.

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Speaker 1: Of the research you've done in different cultures.

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Speaker 3: You know. I think there's a couple of different questions

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here if you look about, you know, different cultures, they

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definitely have, you know, different concepts of like the spirit

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world or what's beyond it or something. And then you

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also have sort of I think in all placed around

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the world, you also have sort of individuals, prophets, dreamers

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that kind of thing that you know, have experiences and

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they try to bring them back and tell stories about them.

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You know, maybe this is getsophraid of our mental illness,

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or maybe they're tapping into something. Right. So, I mean,

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the world is full of mysteries and one of the

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things that these stories do, and they're sneaky this way

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that they set up the way we think about the world.

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And so if you can think outside of those, right,

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like what actually might be out there? Right? What does

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it all mean? How? You know, there's think of the

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human neurons and how many there are, right, I mean,

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this is an incredibly complex machine. And now you can

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read the scientific stuff that they think. Oh well, maybe

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consciousness is tied in with the quantum continuum. Maybe quantum

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mechanics have something to do with this fascinating thought, right,

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So maybe it is maybe our thoughts are somehow tied

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into the quantum realm, which of course you can explore

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that physically. Is fascinating, right, I mean quantum entanglement if

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you follow that. So basically it says that you know,

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space and time don't really exist in the quantum entanglement.

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And this is over the universe, which includes like a

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lot of places, a lot of stars. I mean, I

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mean trillions of stars are out there, so we've got

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like billions of neurons, several trillion stars. I don't have

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the exact numbers. I'm not a physicist, but you get

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the idea that, you know, this is fascinating stuff. So

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the world is a world of wonders, right, and science

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is great. I'm not anti science, but science improved by

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asking those far out questions.

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Speaker 1: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,

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and now back to the show, right exactly, So these

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concepts of like, you know, are we when the matrix

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showed up? I think this is the first time that

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we really figured out, or first time in the zeitgeist

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that the idea of that, wait a minute, are we

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in a computer program? You know, is there some nerdy

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alien somewhere.

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Speaker 3: A metaphor for today like paleolithic shournage man would have

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said computer program? Right, You wouldn't know.

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Speaker 1: That but Maya or the dream or like the dream

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for the Aborigine would be the equivalent of that, or

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Maya is the great illusion.

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Speaker 2: So they're using their you.

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Speaker 3: Know what, yeah, you know, well this idea where is

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consciousness or what is this? You know, what does it

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come from? How is it different from materiality? You know,

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is consciousness simply a product of materiality? Right? Are we?

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Or is it? Is there something else out there about consciousness?

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And so you know, I think these questions have been

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raised in multiple cultures all around the world and that

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plugs in, you know again, what's beyond the physicality? And

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is there anything? So this is this is I think

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the cornerstone of a lot of these different lines of

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inquiry that you find in different cultures.

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Speaker 1: So have you have you done any research in the

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near death experience phenomenon?

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, absolutely what you're as part of shamanism,

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you know, the you know, one way that people often

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become as a Native American cultures, they have a near

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death experience to get my all by bear or something,

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and up until the end they're like normal people and

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then they sort of feel like they've got died, gone

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to the spirit realm and come back and they go

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to the and then they have this sort of shamanic awake.

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Anyone might say, because this is exactly what shalmans are

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supposed to do. This is the craft of shamanism. You

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sort of leave your body, you know, have an out

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of body experience, which is what people report a lot

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of near death experiences, even in the US, right you know,

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the hospital dead and floating above them, that sort of thing.

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So whether or not this is true, do people really flowed,

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I'm not going to answer that. I'm not a physicist,

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But what is true is that people in many, many

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parts of the world we poort this same story. When

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when could say.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's it's it's yeah.

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Speaker 1: I've interviewed over a hundred at this point of near

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death experiences, and I've and even talked to some academics

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who study the near death experiences across the world in

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different cultures, and it's fascinating that you're right, these stories

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are coming out. And it's not always a tunnel of

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white light. Sometimes if you're if you're a native, it's

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through a hole in a tree or walking a path.

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But there's some sort of there's a lot of common

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denominators and it's pretty it is a pretty fascinating and

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it's a pretty new thing, even though there is, from

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my understanding, references to your death experiences in the Bible,

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in Greek, in Greek mythology or Greek Greek culture.

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Speaker 3: I mean, you know, if you think about like Christianity,

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the cornerstone belief of what you should believe, the central

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Christian tenet, right, he died and is reborn. Right, see

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idea that Christ died, went to the spirit Rome or

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whatever and came back. Right, So this is a this

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is actually a cornerstone of Christian theology.

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Speaker 1: Now, how does it How does folklore and myth really

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influence modern religion as we know it today and it's practices.

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Speaker 3: That's hugely What can I say? I mean, you know,

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with myth, how I define myth that like, you know,

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a sacred creation story, this is your usual one. Sometimes

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they're like after the world ends, but usually their creation

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stories like how did this world come to be? And

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so you know, I don't know any religion that doesn't

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have that have one of those, and religion is more

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than that certainly. But I mean, you know, what is

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the impact of the Garden of Eden's story on Christian

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and Abrahamic theology. Huge, right, I mean, you know it's

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a story there's a God that's basically like in humanoid

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male and creates a male in his image, and that's

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why we are in God's image. And I mean, you know,

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is that story important to people's lives? Yeah? I mean

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my computer has a little apple with a bite out

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of it. Where did that come from? You know, this

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is called this is called my Adam's apple. Where did

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that come from? I mean? These things permeate our lives, right,

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I mean, and even those basic metaphors. Again, high is good,

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So I'm feeling I'm high as a kite. I mean,

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you know, if I'm seeing a bit low today, that's bad.

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So low is bad because of this story, God is

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up there. In other mythic stories, God is down there.

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That's where the divine is. So if you're a good person,

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you die, your soul goes down. So then down is important.

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Even these basic metaphors of like you know, colors and

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time and numbers, and you know these miscreate our world.

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Speaker 1: Now, there is a story that isn't almost every if

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not every culture in the world, which is the flood story,

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The Great flood and.

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Speaker 3: We can get into that whole lot.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, please, I would love to hear it.

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Speaker 3: Don't work on it, sure sure number one. Uh No,

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I mean not every culture in the world has a

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flood story. So that's that's been just proven over and

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over again and focalist scholarship. The other thing is that

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there are a lot of flood stories, and when you

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started these examities, you notice that they're not the same story.

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The main thing is they have a flood in them. Uh.

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And then you also notice where these happen in flood

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prone areas. So what we see is that floods are

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sort of a regular, uh at times cataclysmic occurrence to

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a lot of ancient societies and civilizations.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 3: They can wipe out entire cities, entire peoples. So these

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things become remembered and uh, these these become a part

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of the narrative like where to become from what happened

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to us. The other thing is that this isn't This

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is the commonality you often see is that when when

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the horrible things happen, uh, people want to know the reason,

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Like this wasn't just random gens. So very often it's

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like why are the gods mad at us? Or why

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is God mad at us? Right? What did we do wrong? Right?

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So we have the in the Noah story that you know,

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mankind is so wicked that God decides the story for

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Betty Noah. But if you go over to the Northwest collage,

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do you have a lot of these flood myths. But

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and this is the area with a lot of earthquakes,

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have a lot of historically a lot of fledge and

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uh so they in these miss So the idea is

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that there is caused by mountain dwarfs dancing. They have

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these spirits that are in the in the mountains. Uh

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and they dance and this causes earthquakes, which causes the floods.

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The tsunamis in this case, right, So this is a

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different type of flood. This is not like a rainy

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weather flood. This is a flood from a tsunami because

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of an earthquake. So in this myth it actually has

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a lot of important information too. Right, if you you know,

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if there's an earthquake, watch out for floods, right, head

367
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for ye round if it's a big earthquake. This is

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something good to remember. The Other thing about it is

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that you know why were these mountain dwarves dancing. The

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idea is that usually the people sinned, they did something wrong,

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and you know in a couple of stories, like people

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beat their dogs or something and just upset the mountain

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dwarf so much. So what this says is it also

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explains things, right, like, so remember when people want to know,

375
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is just God's punishment? I remember when the age thing

376
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came out, a lot of the religious right, it's like,

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this is God's punishment for us sins. Right, People often

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seek a meaning in disasters, and I think it's far

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scary to think that there isn't one, that we're just

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sort of at the whims of the universe. I think

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that's far scarier. People want to know. It also then

382
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puts them in control, like we cannot have another flood

383
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if we just behave better, right.

384
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Speaker 1: And but that's so that's interesting the dancing dwarf idea,

385
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because like to me, I mean, obviously that sounds to

386
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me ridiculous that there's giant dancing dwarfs in a mountain.

387
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But if you start looking at many of our religion

388
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of stories and many of our spiritual stories.

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Speaker 3: Of the other Noah flood story, was a big guy

390
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in the sky, you know, around and everything and everybody

391
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that you created.

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Speaker 1: Exactly, yeah, because but he's an all loving bother figure,

393
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So why is he killing everybody and judging that he.

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Speaker 3: Was supposed to be perfect and then he's supposed to

395
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create everything perfect. But then he got so bad he

396
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had to he had almost wipe it all out, and

397
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then he will have to wipe it all lot later.

398
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That's the end, right, right exactly.

399
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Speaker 1: So it's it seems like humanity is a general the

400
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human experience is that they need to construct something to

401
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make sense of the insanity that it is to live

402
00:18:35,079 --> 00:18:38,039
in this realm, in this experience of the physical realm

403
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and all aspects throughout history.

404
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Speaker 3: Right yeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean he wanted it to

405
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live and enjoy and everything and know you're going to die.

406
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It's like, oh man. So there was a lot of stories,

407
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a lot of mythsory like why do people have to die?

408
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And that's part of the Garden of Eden story, right,

409
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that's the Garden of Eating story is actually part of

410
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a whier macro type of stories that goes across a

411
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lot of Africa and the Near East, and it's not

412
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but it has several different forms, but it's usually known

413
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as the failed animal messenger. And the idea is that

414
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there's an animal that's supposed to go to the creator

415
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deity and come back with information of how people will

416
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live forever. And so the guard defta story with a

417
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snake in this case is that, But another place it's

418
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the hair or a turtle. In one place, it's a

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cat and a dog. Among the bang of western Africa.

420
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It's a cat and a dog. They're going to go

421
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to the Creator. The cat just doesn't really care enough

422
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to deliver the message. He doesn't care enough about his people.

423
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The dog really does, and he tries to do his

424
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best job, and he goes and he gets to command.

425
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He's carrying back a little scroll in his mouth telling

426
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people how are going to live forever. But he's on

427
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the way back he sees a pile of meaty bones

428
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and he gets distracted and forgets. So, you know, they

429
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try to do the best. They just kind of screwed up.

430
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The cat just didn't care enough about us.

431
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Speaker 1: And as anyone who's ever owned a cat well completely

432
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makes that make some police sense.

433
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Speaker 3: It was like when you're trying to tell your cat

434
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to do something.

435
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Speaker 2: They fetched that not so much, that's so much.

436
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Speaker 3: This is actually part of the same macro type that

437
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goes all across Africa. And that's part of the snake

438
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in this case and a lot now Christian Julten think

439
00:20:06,039 --> 00:20:08,440
the snake, that's the devil, right, It doesn't say that

440
00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:10,559
in the Bible. Is it's just a snake. I mean,

441
00:20:12,079 --> 00:20:14,400
there is no devil in the Old Testament. Judaism doesn't

442
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have a devil. That came later.

443
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Speaker 1: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor

444
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and now back to the show. Yeah, so let me

445
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ask you about that, because that that idea of hell

446
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and the devil and the fallen angel of Satan and

447
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you know, all of this kind of stuff.

448
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Speaker 2: You know, I was.

449
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Speaker 1: I was that was exposed to that first grade and

450
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Catholic school, and I was terrified, as it's supposed to

451
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terrify you to.

452
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Speaker 2: Be a good person.

453
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Speaker 3: Part of it.

454
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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's part of the point.

455
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Speaker 1: But that meant the idea of the devil came in

456
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in the New Testament. If I'm not mistaken.

457
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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, there's no there's no devil in Judaism.

458
00:20:54,799 --> 00:20:56,559
There's no hell in Judaism. This is this is a

459
00:20:56,720 --> 00:21:01,160
this is an import by Christianity. Now, what I think

460
00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:04,000
is fascinating is that where the Christianity get this, And

461
00:21:04,039 --> 00:21:07,720
I think they got it mostly from Jerastrianism. So Zeroastrianism

462
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was this major it is still a major world religion,

463
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a huge temple here in Los Angeles. And this is

464
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centered in the Persian Empire and then and it was

465
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hugely popular with the Roman Empire. The army, so most

466
00:21:19,680 --> 00:21:21,480
of the Roman army. You have to remember, most of

467
00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:23,640
the Roman army weren't Romans, right, These were captured people

468
00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:26,240
from all over the place. So the Roman Army, which

469
00:21:26,279 --> 00:21:30,400
is a you know, global population, was occupying Judea during

470
00:21:30,480 --> 00:21:34,079
Christ's lifetime and before and they would have largely been Zioastrian.

471
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So this would have been sort of the the main

472
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religion of all of these people living there. And so

473
00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:42,880
Zerastianism is right next door. Zoastrianism has heaven in hell.

474
00:21:43,039 --> 00:21:45,119
Zer Asterism has good and evil, and God is all

475
00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:48,839
good and the devil is all evil, and Zerostrium Zeroastrianism

476
00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:50,799
has all of these sort of elements like the devil

477
00:21:50,920 --> 00:21:54,039
and versus God and this sort of thing. So the

478
00:21:54,039 --> 00:21:56,000
whole Christian idea that you know, you're sort of in

479
00:21:56,039 --> 00:21:58,039
between the Devil's trying to get you and God's trying

480
00:21:58,079 --> 00:22:01,480
to get you. This is really a about from Jiastrianism

481
00:22:01,519 --> 00:22:05,640
more than Judaism. Judaism doesn't have that binary like good evil.

482
00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:09,000
Speaker 1: Greek mythology would have come afterwards, if I'm not mistaken,

483
00:22:09,039 --> 00:22:12,960
in the timeline, correct, that's that's after Christ in the timeline.

484
00:22:13,119 --> 00:22:15,039
Speaker 3: Well, no, Zastianism was around, you know a long.

485
00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:17,599
Speaker 2: So Greek Greek mythology.

486
00:22:17,599 --> 00:22:20,160
Speaker 3: I'm talking about Greek mythology. Yeah, well that goes back

487
00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:21,759
to that kind of Old Testament times. So there are

488
00:22:21,799 --> 00:22:23,400
some overlaps there, right, So this is.

489
00:22:23,480 --> 00:22:26,799
Speaker 2: Because because of Hades and that kind of idea.

490
00:22:27,359 --> 00:22:29,119
Speaker 3: There's a couple of there's a couple of points in

491
00:22:29,160 --> 00:22:32,000
time when when Greek and Christian mythology sort of overlapped.

492
00:22:32,119 --> 00:22:34,000
And uh, you know the early times during the Iron

493
00:22:34,039 --> 00:22:35,599
Age period were a lot of these gods. I mean,

494
00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:39,160
Zeus just means Deus, right, I mean this just means God, right.

495
00:22:39,279 --> 00:22:42,839
And his full name is Zeus Peter, Father God who

496
00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:45,400
lives up on high you know, up on mount levels maybe,

497
00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:47,119
but often in the clouds. It's it's you know, it's

498
00:22:47,119 --> 00:22:50,480
basically the same character. Right, it's become Jupiter for the Romans,

499
00:22:50,599 --> 00:22:53,400
Zeu's Peter. It's just so people in Greece, when I'm

500
00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:55,519
saying Father God, is saying Father God. You know if

501
00:22:55,519 --> 00:22:58,039
you think about when they converted. Right, So this is

502
00:22:58,079 --> 00:23:00,880
this is not this is already a connected sort of traditions.

503
00:23:01,119 --> 00:23:03,400
Speaker 1: So can you talk a little bit about Zoiasterism because

504
00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:06,680
I'm not too familiar about I've heard of it, but

505
00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:08,240
I'm not sure. I don't know a lot of the

506
00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:08,759
details of it.

507
00:23:09,079 --> 00:23:12,359
Speaker 3: Huge, huge, hugely important religion, one of our major world religions,

508
00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:16,839
and started by the prophet Diaster who kind of cobbled

509
00:23:16,839 --> 00:23:19,720
together religion out of whatever else was there before, and

510
00:23:19,799 --> 00:23:22,720
sort of a monotheistic religion. It is at least as

511
00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:26,200
monotheistic as Christianity in the sense that there's a duality. Right,

512
00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:28,920
there's an all good God and there's an all bad devil,

513
00:23:29,079 --> 00:23:32,160
and there's a Hell and there's a heaven, and then

514
00:23:32,359 --> 00:23:34,680
you know, this is sort of the personal struggle is

515
00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:37,119
between those two forces. That's our human sort of struggle

516
00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:40,359
here on earth. And again this sort of laid the groundwork. Okay,

517
00:23:40,359 --> 00:23:42,440
so you remember the Nativity scene, in the Bible. Right

518
00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:46,319
in the Bible story where the three Magi, well Magi

519
00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:49,640
was Zastrian priests were there through Rasterrians, so you know,

520
00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:52,680
it was already worked into that story that Christ's birth

521
00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:56,319
was blessed by the Zoroastrian priest, right, So why was

522
00:23:56,359 --> 00:23:59,200
the Rasthrian priests blessed it because it was very Zoroastrian

523
00:23:59,359 --> 00:23:59,920
if you look at it.

524
00:24:00,759 --> 00:24:03,839
Speaker 1: Where and so what what in the timeline of humanity?

525
00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:08,680
Where did he Where did Zoastanism start? Is it before Buddhism,

526
00:24:08,759 --> 00:24:09,519
after Buddhism?

527
00:24:09,839 --> 00:24:11,880
Speaker 3: Oh uh, oh no, it was, Yeah, it was genius

528
00:24:12,279 --> 00:24:13,839
again if you go back that far, that's like early

529
00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:16,839
iron Age is Rassianism would have been after that, but

530
00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:20,119
before Christianity. Just to kind of put it in context, okay,

531
00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:21,599
you know if you go back to your old test

532
00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:23,640
but this is kind of Iron Age stories really, and

533
00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:25,519
and it overlaps with a lot of irony stories again

534
00:24:25,519 --> 00:24:27,680
that we see in the wider you know, Mediterranean and

535
00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:31,279
in Greece and stuff like that. There's a Plantorian age

536
00:24:31,279 --> 00:24:33,079
in Greece, right, and it's pretty much the same flood

537
00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:34,960
story as you just decided to flood everything, and so

538
00:24:35,079 --> 00:24:37,160
these stories these people were already connected in a lot

539
00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:39,640
of these stories. And you know there's iron age sort

540
00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:42,880
of strong ruler, male ruler chiefs and this is this

541
00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:44,880
is you see this in the mythologies that are emerging

542
00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:45,440
at this time.

543
00:24:45,759 --> 00:24:48,400
Speaker 1: So let me ask you this because I've heard in

544
00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:52,519
my studies, I've seen that there's so many different uh,

545
00:24:53,319 --> 00:24:58,000
a lot of the same things overlap in other deities

546
00:24:58,279 --> 00:25:02,480
or leaders of religions origin stories, and Jesus a storager story.

547
00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:06,359
So if you look at Buddha and his story, you know,

548
00:25:06,559 --> 00:25:08,599
the coustles, and I see it took a couple of

549
00:25:08,599 --> 00:25:11,799
things at least at least it looks like a lot

550
00:25:11,799 --> 00:25:13,599
of elements from that.

551
00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:16,200
Speaker 3: Very different story. So again, I'm not a big fan

552
00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:18,519
of the Chambelli and the Campbell's idea that there's all

553
00:25:18,519 --> 00:25:20,799
the same story or something, because there's a lot of differences.

554
00:25:20,839 --> 00:25:23,000
So you know, Buddha was born rich, right, he was

555
00:25:23,039 --> 00:25:26,680
born a prince, you know, or Jesus was born a pauper.

556
00:25:27,079 --> 00:25:30,279
You know, these are very different origin stories where I

557
00:25:30,319 --> 00:25:32,400
do see a lot of overlapses, like again the ones

558
00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:36,119
that were sort of next to these areas. So Jesus

559
00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:41,039
his story really parallels Osirius from the Egyptian and Osirus

560
00:25:41,039 --> 00:25:43,240
is an interesting day. He said to look, you know,

561
00:25:43,319 --> 00:25:45,559
Egypt had been around for a long long time, thousands

562
00:25:45,599 --> 00:25:47,759
of years, right, this is the center of civilization for

563
00:25:47,799 --> 00:25:51,279
so long. And if you look at Egyptian mythology over time,

564
00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:53,519
there's some really fun changes. If you go to the

565
00:25:53,559 --> 00:25:56,319
way back stuff, it's almost all animal gods or or

566
00:25:56,359 --> 00:26:00,319
you know, human animal hybrid gods. As it goes later time,

567
00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:02,720
you start having more humans, so to take over these roles,

568
00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:05,640
So SyRS starts becoming the main god of death. He's

569
00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:08,720
the one that judges people. And by the time you

570
00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:10,920
get up towards this time period, you have the day

571
00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:13,680
of judgment. Right, so when you die in the Egyptian stuff,

572
00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:15,960
you get judged at a day of judgment and either

573
00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:18,279
you go on to heaven or you get obliterated forever,

574
00:26:18,799 --> 00:26:21,519
not tortured forever like hell. But you know, same kind

575
00:26:21,519 --> 00:26:25,000
of basic idea. So we have a lot in Christianity

576
00:26:25,039 --> 00:26:28,680
and Abrahamic religions from you know, I get where where

577
00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:32,799
did abraham religions start? Right? Where did where did Abraham start? Where?

578
00:26:32,839 --> 00:26:37,759
With Abraham converted to monotheism in Egypt, So these are

579
00:26:37,799 --> 00:26:41,119
all very very connected streams. And again you're probably familiar

580
00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:44,839
with you know, I'm an Hotep and slash Aconatan, Right,

581
00:26:44,839 --> 00:26:47,680
So this is the Egyptian pharaoh that basically abandoned the

582
00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:51,079
old Egyptian pantheon and probably in order to claim more

583
00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:53,039
power for himself, but maybe he was a believer and

584
00:26:53,079 --> 00:26:55,839
to institute a new religion that was essentially a monotheistic watse.

585
00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:58,440
This is kind of the first monotheism, uh. And the

586
00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:00,279
main emblem was the sun. And then he is going

587
00:27:00,319 --> 00:27:04,200
to be the pope as well as sort of king, right,

588
00:27:04,279 --> 00:27:06,799
so it's a way of consolidating power probably, but this

589
00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:08,880
is you know, so this was going on, and he

590
00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:11,480
even constructed a new capital in the southern part of Egypt.

591
00:27:11,519 --> 00:27:15,359
Who houses it only lasted his lifetime. After he died,

592
00:27:15,519 --> 00:27:17,720
there was a revolution and they put the boy King

593
00:27:18,079 --> 00:27:20,319
Tut in Common on the throne, right, King Tut, who

594
00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:23,319
is a sort of not that great, not that impressive

595
00:27:23,359 --> 00:27:26,480
of an individual, and then restored the old religion. But

596
00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:29,839
you know, these religious ideas were already bubbling around. And

597
00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:33,000
so again this is where Judaism starts right in Egypt,

598
00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:37,319
right where Abram gets converted the monotheism in Egypt. Moses

599
00:27:37,519 --> 00:27:41,200
means priest in Egyptian at this time, so you know,

600
00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:43,440
there's a lot of these ideas that then get transferred.

601
00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:45,039
A lot of the psalms and the proverbs seemed to

602
00:27:45,079 --> 00:27:50,400
come from Akinatan's temples, so there's there's an impact early on,

603
00:27:50,839 --> 00:27:54,400
and then Osiris is becoming the big god. And Osiris

604
00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:56,960
his story is very much like Jesus history. Right, He's

605
00:27:57,039 --> 00:28:00,400
killed right around when he's thirty by kind of by

606
00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:05,440
the evil Satan underwater demons set and then not by

607
00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:08,359
the Romans, but and then gets resurrected, brought back to life.

608
00:28:08,839 --> 00:28:12,359
And so even though you know his birthday is Osirius's

609
00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:15,759
birthday was often given as the winter solstice or right

610
00:28:15,759 --> 00:28:20,000
around Christmas, and his rebirth was usually at the spring Equinoc,

611
00:28:20,039 --> 00:28:23,039
which is, you know, sort of Easter. So you know,

612
00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:26,759
the these these stories are very very similar. And again

613
00:28:26,799 --> 00:28:29,160
Osiris is the god who the young god who died

614
00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:31,359
and brought back to life. Interestingly enough, he had set

615
00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:34,079
kind up of his body into thirteen parts, but his

616
00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:37,799
sister Isis resurrected him, but you only found twelve. You

617
00:28:37,839 --> 00:28:41,480
never found the thirteenth part. The thirteenth part was his penis,

618
00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:43,880
and so he comes across now as sort of this

619
00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:47,119
asexual god. Right, he doesn't he doesn't have sex, he

620
00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:51,240
doesn't marry, he doesn't produce heirs, and so there's a

621
00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:53,599
lot of sort of overlap between In fact, Osiris and

622
00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:57,000
Jesus often shared some of their same temples early on

623
00:28:57,079 --> 00:29:00,519
were sort of Osiris slash Jesus temples. So there's a

624
00:29:00,559 --> 00:29:03,119
lot of overlaps between the Jesus story and the Osiris story.

625
00:29:03,119 --> 00:29:04,440
It's probably very influenced by it.

626
00:29:05,079 --> 00:29:08,599
Speaker 1: Now you mentioned the kind of like animal god hybrids

627
00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:12,640
of humans that seems to be very common throughout multiple

628
00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:16,720
cultures around the world, from Native American, from Egypt, from.

629
00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:18,920
Speaker 2: Greece, you know god.

630
00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:22,160
Speaker 1: I'm not sure about Roman times, but there's there's so many,

631
00:29:22,279 --> 00:29:26,279
especially in the the UK and the in that area

632
00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:30,799
of you know, Narnia, that kind of stuff.

633
00:29:31,279 --> 00:29:33,880
Speaker 3: It's it's phenomenon and that those that do and those

634
00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:36,559
that don't. You can also tease out some interesting differences.

635
00:29:36,599 --> 00:29:38,799
So and again you can look at this over time.

636
00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:40,519
So Egypt is a great case study in this. They

637
00:29:40,559 --> 00:29:42,559
start off with like animal gods and then become kind

638
00:29:42,559 --> 00:29:44,400
of human animal gods and then by the end they're

639
00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:47,960
pretty much human gods. So and what you I don't

640
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:50,200
really know. My hypothesis is that like you know, people

641
00:29:50,279 --> 00:29:52,759
that are living in subsistence lifestyles, they're out there interacting

642
00:29:52,839 --> 00:29:55,720
with these animals kind of on a one to one basis. Right,

643
00:29:55,799 --> 00:29:59,240
these are free animals or not domesticated animals. H. Then

644
00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:02,640
you you you see them as important sort of you know,

645
00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:05,400
spiritual forces, and that becomes worked into your stories. So

646
00:30:05,559 --> 00:30:07,079
Native Americans, you know, they have a lot of the

647
00:30:07,079 --> 00:30:10,480
stories about the different animal deities. And then but if

648
00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:12,319
you get to the farming cultures where it's all a

649
00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:15,200
lot of people and it's all just people, people, people,

650
00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:18,559
and maybe some controlled animals, then people start I think

651
00:30:18,559 --> 00:30:21,880
thinking about more like people. Right, you're ruled by a king,

652
00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:23,799
So is there a kind of a human like king

653
00:30:23,799 --> 00:30:27,640
that rules over the universe? Right? Uh? And so again

654
00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:29,839
you can really tease out different cultures, like in India,

655
00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:33,799
you know they have some animal hybrid gods, but not many. Right,

656
00:30:33,839 --> 00:30:37,839
They're they're they're they're mostly human gods with a couple

657
00:30:37,839 --> 00:30:39,079
of interesting exceptions.

658
00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:43,240
Speaker 1: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,

659
00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:48,359
and now back to the show.

660
00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:52,960
Speaker 3: And in Greece, like there are all human gods except

661
00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:54,799
for like maybe Pan, who is not one of the

662
00:30:54,799 --> 00:30:57,559
Olympian gods and who is not part of that tribe. Right,

663
00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:00,720
was Pans are fascinating character, right, I think it's the

664
00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:03,200
most important Greek got out there and probably the most

665
00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:06,279
widely worshiped over time and over space. But you hardly

666
00:31:06,319 --> 00:31:09,519
ever read about him because the city people's gods would

667
00:31:09,559 --> 00:31:10,880
have been the human gods, and those are the ones

668
00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:12,000
who are writing stuff down.

669
00:31:12,319 --> 00:31:16,359
Speaker 1: Fascinating. Now, there is a big myth of that I'd

670
00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:18,960
love to hear your point of view on. It is

671
00:31:19,359 --> 00:31:24,640
Atlantis that has just captivated us as humans ever since

672
00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:25,759
Plato wrote about.

673
00:31:25,519 --> 00:31:28,920
Speaker 3: It, probably long before and probably long.

674
00:31:28,799 --> 00:31:31,519
Speaker 1: Before, but from the point of us in Western society,

675
00:31:31,599 --> 00:31:34,720
Plato is the origin story of that which from my understanding,

676
00:31:36,079 --> 00:31:38,519
he wasn't the No, it was, yeah, his uncle. His

677
00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:41,119
uncle went over to Egypt, the couple priests told them

678
00:31:41,119 --> 00:31:43,960
about and so on. Where do you what's your point

679
00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:47,039
of view on Atlantis? What does it mean for us

680
00:31:47,079 --> 00:31:49,480
as a as a species, and what does this story

681
00:31:49,519 --> 00:31:51,480
mean to us? Because it's we're still talking about it

682
00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:53,039
in twenty twenty three, that's what.

683
00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:56,279
Speaker 3: It's a fun mystery, right, It's something everybody can sort

684
00:31:56,279 --> 00:31:58,359
of share, and it doesn't matter your political views or anything.

685
00:31:58,359 --> 00:31:59,920
We could all talk about Atlantis, right, It's a very

686
00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:02,359
sort of neutral and fun topic. It'd be great if

687
00:32:02,359 --> 00:32:04,000
they ever discovered it, like, you know, it'd be a

688
00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:06,880
great sort of morning news story. You know, divers think

689
00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:09,279
they have found the lost continent of Atlantis. You know,

690
00:32:09,359 --> 00:32:12,160
that'd be lovely, right. So it's very useful in terms of,

691
00:32:12,319 --> 00:32:14,559
you know, how we live our lives. But if you

692
00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:16,319
if you try to trace back, like you know, where

693
00:32:16,359 --> 00:32:18,160
does this come from and how true it might be,

694
00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:21,519
that's a fascinating story too. So allway know it is

695
00:32:21,559 --> 00:32:26,200
that one sort of textual thing from Plato, but he

696
00:32:26,279 --> 00:32:28,640
sayss very clearly, like this is a big story in Egypt.

697
00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:31,519
This is this is their origin story, right, This is

698
00:32:31,559 --> 00:32:34,119
according to them, where they came from. Before they came

699
00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:38,119
to Egypt, they were in Atlanta's and so this is

700
00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:40,400
their sort of So this is a very important story

701
00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:44,079
for the ancient egypt Egyptians, according to Plato. So that's important.

702
00:32:44,119 --> 00:32:46,400
So this is going back to whatever Asian Egypt Egyptian

703
00:32:46,519 --> 00:32:49,319
story was. We don't know their Atlanta story, but we

704
00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:51,799
know it was something like later to describe he was

705
00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:54,319
very careful. Are there were a lot of contacts now

706
00:32:54,359 --> 00:32:56,319
between Egypt and Greece, so he would have been very

707
00:32:56,359 --> 00:32:58,839
careful to report this accurately, right, People were coming back

708
00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:02,960
and forth. And so we know that this was a

709
00:33:03,119 --> 00:33:06,279
very very tremendously important story to ancient Egypt, a very

710
00:33:06,359 --> 00:33:08,680
very sacred origin story that they had probably treasured for

711
00:33:09,119 --> 00:33:11,759
a long long time, perhaps thousands of years, given the

712
00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:14,400
you know, the length of the Egyptian culture. So that

713
00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:16,759
becomes interesting, right that we know that they believed in

714
00:33:16,799 --> 00:33:19,680
it and that they had maintained this story as a

715
00:33:19,759 --> 00:33:22,200
valuable story for a long time. Now, was it just

716
00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:25,960
a myth right for them, like some kind of creation story? Maybe?

717
00:33:26,039 --> 00:33:28,960
But it seemed very specific, like exactly what size it

718
00:33:29,119 --> 00:33:32,359
was and this sort of thing. Could it have been

719
00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:34,640
like one of an island in the Mediterranean that you know,

720
00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:36,519
sank beneath the sea during one of the main and

721
00:33:36,599 --> 00:33:39,839
earthquake sure, right, And maybe some people sattle maybe it's

722
00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:42,359
kind of related to the Minoa and civilization that got you know,

723
00:33:42,519 --> 00:33:45,400
kind of battered by the earthquakes. Maybe it doesn't quite

724
00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:47,960
seem to fit. You know, there's little traces like the

725
00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:50,920
Atlas Mountains, right, and they said it was out by

726
00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:53,640
the Straits of Gibraltar, and maybe it was. Maybe there

727
00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:56,759
was some mistranslation, but then they have the Atlas Mountains

728
00:33:56,759 --> 00:33:59,960
and then the Burber people up there tell stories about Atlanta's,

729
00:34:00,079 --> 00:34:02,680
so maybe it's out there. Some people suggested that it

730
00:34:03,079 --> 00:34:05,279
wasn't really the sea, that it was actually the Sahara,

731
00:34:05,359 --> 00:34:06,559
which is an interesting suggestion.

732
00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:08,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a new way you have seen that used

733
00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:08,840
to be lush.

734
00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:12,119
Speaker 3: And this is we do know that ancient Egyptian civilizations

735
00:34:12,199 --> 00:34:15,199
seems to have come from the Sahara, right, so you

736
00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:16,920
got these This used to be a lust thing. This

737
00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:19,119
is one of the cradles of mankind before it turned

738
00:34:19,119 --> 00:34:23,400
into a vast desert. And we and and what archaeologists

739
00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:26,119
and stuff have tendants suggested that this was to start

740
00:34:26,639 --> 00:34:29,280
when the Egyptians moved into the Nile. They were already

741
00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:32,960
pretty set up as a culture, so they came from somewhere,

742
00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:34,840
and it makes sense that they would have come from

743
00:34:35,079 --> 00:34:37,000
the Sahara as it turned into a desert and could

744
00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:39,480
no longer support large farming civilizations.

745
00:34:39,519 --> 00:34:42,719
Speaker 1: Well, let me ask you this, what is your feeling

746
00:34:42,880 --> 00:34:45,480
on the human timeline, because the timeline seems to be

747
00:34:45,559 --> 00:34:48,719
moving a lot lately with and when I say lately,

748
00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:51,119
in the last fifty or sixty years, where you know,

749
00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:53,400
what I was, what I was taught in school was like, oh,

750
00:34:53,519 --> 00:34:56,639
Egypt said six thousand years old, maybe seven thousand years old.

751
00:34:57,079 --> 00:34:59,159
But now something like a Beckley teppe shows up and

752
00:34:59,159 --> 00:35:01,079
they're like, well, that's their teen thousand years old.

753
00:35:02,559 --> 00:35:06,000
Speaker 3: That's a great example. Yeah, that's well, lovely, lovely, not

754
00:35:06,039 --> 00:35:10,159
just age. But because these were like civilizational structures that

755
00:35:10,199 --> 00:35:15,800
were set up by hunter gatherers. Right, we're not culture right, right,

756
00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:18,519
So we long have this idea that that's you know, okay,

757
00:35:18,599 --> 00:35:21,039
hutter gatherers and you get agriculture and they build cities,

758
00:35:21,079 --> 00:35:23,679
and it's not that easy. It's much more complex than that.

759
00:35:23,719 --> 00:35:26,280
So it really points to a lot of the interesting

760
00:35:26,519 --> 00:35:29,599
cultural complexity. And some of these cultures lasted thousands of years,

761
00:35:29,679 --> 00:35:31,920
even going back to the Paleolithic. I was just reading

762
00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:34,039
the other day that they can determine these different Paleolithic

763
00:35:34,039 --> 00:35:36,880
cultures due to the different artifacts and the clothing styles

764
00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:39,840
and jewelry styles that people would have been wearing that

765
00:35:40,199 --> 00:35:43,800
lasted for thousands of years, right until climate change or whatnot.

766
00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:45,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, so there's something like a Pecletepe.

767
00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:47,119
Speaker 1: You look at what they were doing there, and you like,

768
00:35:47,159 --> 00:35:52,320
look at the sophistication of what they did. That's not

769
00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:54,079
hunter gather sophistication.

770
00:35:54,599 --> 00:35:57,119
Speaker 3: It seems like, okay, when we think of hunter gatherers

771
00:35:57,119 --> 00:35:59,159
are just going out and there's the classic hunter gathers, right,

772
00:35:59,159 --> 00:36:02,440
small band chasing eye that works. But you also get

773
00:36:02,519 --> 00:36:06,239
hunter gatherers that you know, have a lot of spare food, right,

774
00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:08,639
So like a look at the Northwest coast groups. They

775
00:36:08,679 --> 00:36:11,079
had salmon and they would smoke it. So there are hunter gatherers,

776
00:36:11,119 --> 00:36:13,239
but they would have food storage and so they could

777
00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:17,639
host large villages, large cities, they could have division of labor.

778
00:36:17,679 --> 00:36:20,079
They had you know, craftsmen that could work for as

779
00:36:20,079 --> 00:36:23,280
a craftsman and not hunter gatherers. Right. They did amazing

780
00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:27,800
huge constructions while we labeled them hunter gatherers. So not

781
00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:31,599
all hunder gatherers are classic small band group.

782
00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:34,320
Speaker 1: So then in your opinion, though, how old do you

783
00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:38,840
think the Egyptian culture really truly is based on these

784
00:36:38,840 --> 00:36:40,360
others coming up?

785
00:36:40,599 --> 00:36:42,159
Speaker 3: Yeah, Well, it depends how far back you want to

786
00:36:42,159 --> 00:36:43,960
trace it, right, I mean what we say is Egypt

787
00:36:44,039 --> 00:36:45,760
is now we think of this as this country or

788
00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:49,440
this area. But the Egyptian culture again, a lot of

789
00:36:49,519 --> 00:36:51,719
archaeologists have sat when you sort of seeing this stuff

790
00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:54,960
in the early period along the Nile, it seems already

791
00:36:55,199 --> 00:36:58,079
pretty you know, set up as a culture right as

792
00:36:58,079 --> 00:37:02,480
a package comes into the prices. So that's interesting and

793
00:37:02,519 --> 00:37:05,719
agains where they came from. But a good guest would

794
00:37:05,719 --> 00:37:08,679
be the Sahara. You know, there's early megalithics cultures in

795
00:37:08,719 --> 00:37:11,559
the Sahara. You know, to look at the megalithic culture,

796
00:37:11,559 --> 00:37:13,760
which is something I've been fascinated with Western Europe and

797
00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:17,320
Ireland and all these megalithic societies and structures and some

798
00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:19,519
of and there's some of the earliest seemed to be

799
00:37:19,519 --> 00:37:21,000
in the middle of the Sahara desert.

800
00:37:21,119 --> 00:37:24,320
Speaker 1: Which was apparently, like you said, lush, you know, thousands

801
00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:27,159
and thousands and thousands, because you can't you really can't

802
00:37:27,159 --> 00:37:29,280
build a society around in the desert like that, not

803
00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:31,559
that size you need, no.

804
00:37:31,559 --> 00:37:34,639
Speaker 3: You know, it was lush. This is an incredibly lush environment.

805
00:37:34,639 --> 00:37:36,880
Where of the lussion environments on Earth was the Sahara

806
00:37:37,079 --> 00:37:38,880
so this is we know that there was some big

807
00:37:38,920 --> 00:37:40,719
civilizations living. It's fast.

808
00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:42,000
Speaker 2: It is truly fascinating.

809
00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:44,079
Speaker 1: You know, what I always find really interesting is that

810
00:37:44,199 --> 00:37:46,360
no matter where we are in the history of humanity,

811
00:37:47,639 --> 00:37:49,159
man always thinks they have it figured out.

812
00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:52,199
Speaker 2: Uh, that they're like, no, no, this.

813
00:37:52,079 --> 00:37:54,079
Speaker 3: Is the story trying to figure it out, right.

814
00:37:53,960 --> 00:37:55,639
Speaker 1: No, no, But like you know, like you know, during

815
00:37:55,679 --> 00:37:58,039
the Greek times, like as Zeus, obviously it's Zeus, there's

816
00:37:58,039 --> 00:38:00,880
no other way. And during you know, Egyptian times, it's

817
00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:03,559
raw or it's you know, it's Osiruses and that was.

818
00:38:03,599 --> 00:38:05,639
Speaker 3: Its interesting when it falls apart too, you know, So

819
00:38:06,199 --> 00:38:08,519
when did ancient Greece stop believing in their gods? Right?

820
00:38:08,559 --> 00:38:10,760
Plato didn't believe he wasn't a Christian or anything, but

821
00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:13,719
he didn't believe in the old gods, right, he didn't

822
00:38:13,719 --> 00:38:15,559
believe in what he called myth. In fact, you know,

823
00:38:15,599 --> 00:38:17,639
we get our word myth from ancient Greece, and so

824
00:38:18,159 --> 00:38:20,559
early on, you know, some of these people were questioning

825
00:38:20,599 --> 00:38:23,920
the rationality of these religions. People were taking very seriously

826
00:38:24,039 --> 00:38:26,599
this is really we're Athena's unded to heaven or whatever.

827
00:38:27,159 --> 00:38:29,360
And they were put to death, right, for being heretics.

828
00:38:29,559 --> 00:38:33,039
All right, so you know it was a very contentious thing.

829
00:38:33,159 --> 00:38:36,280
It was only sort of later that Greek civilization sort

830
00:38:36,320 --> 00:38:39,880
of okayed, you know, atheism and disbelief.

831
00:38:40,920 --> 00:38:43,559
Speaker 1: Yeah, and now, I mean obviously with the war with

832
00:38:43,639 --> 00:38:45,960
the world as it is now, there's such a free

833
00:38:46,719 --> 00:38:49,880
exchange of information because of the digital age. What is

834
00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:52,960
your opinion of how this is affecting folk lore?

835
00:38:53,039 --> 00:38:54,920
Speaker 2: And I know this is one of your favorite topics.

836
00:38:56,639 --> 00:38:59,199
Speaker 1: So how how does how does the digital age the

837
00:38:59,239 --> 00:39:02,719
internet and how folklore is being created myth is being

838
00:39:02,719 --> 00:39:04,719
created using these new tools.

839
00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:07,000
Speaker 3: Oh well, yeah, it's huge, right. The Internet is totally

840
00:39:07,039 --> 00:39:08,960
transforming our culture. This is one of the biggest things

841
00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:10,920
to happen in human culture. I think it's bigger than

842
00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:12,960
the printing press, which gave us literacy in the nation,

843
00:39:13,039 --> 00:39:14,920
state and office. It's one of the biggest things to

844
00:39:14,960 --> 00:39:18,239
happen to human culture ever, maybe since the invention of agriculture. Right,

845
00:39:18,239 --> 00:39:20,000
So this is going to change. It is a species.

846
00:39:20,559 --> 00:39:24,239
And I already, like you know, my former self, my

847
00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:27,400
twenty year old self, would not understand my current self,

848
00:39:27,480 --> 00:39:29,519
Like it's a different language. Like you're talking about his

849
00:39:29,559 --> 00:39:33,079
broadband and his Wi Fi and his download speed for streaming,

850
00:39:33,199 --> 00:39:35,320
Like what is this guy? You know, you would be

851
00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:39,320
incomprehensible to my earlier self. And so I look at

852
00:39:39,320 --> 00:39:42,079
my students. Now, I'm getting these students down the twentyies

853
00:39:42,159 --> 00:39:44,639
and stuff. They've been on broadband their whole lives, most

854
00:39:44,679 --> 00:39:46,760
of them, right, And so that means that they've been

855
00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:48,840
sort of anywhere in the world at any time, talking

856
00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:51,679
to anybody in the world at any time, and as

857
00:39:51,719 --> 00:39:55,159
normal for them. And you know, and and I remember

858
00:39:55,199 --> 00:39:59,199
what it was before then, right, right, just talk to

859
00:39:59,239 --> 00:40:02,039
anybody in the world at anytime. So, yeah, that's going

860
00:40:02,119 --> 00:40:03,800
to absolutely change all of our foot There's just a

861
00:40:03,840 --> 00:40:05,800
lot of folk I mean folklore. You know, when I

862
00:40:05,800 --> 00:40:08,960
went into grad school, folklore it was considti antiquated discipline.

863
00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:11,599
It was fading away in the face of modernity. And

864
00:40:11,719 --> 00:40:13,960
by the time I actually to graduate school, folklore was

865
00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:16,119
like cutting edge. Right, there's all this art that doesn't

866
00:40:16,159 --> 00:40:18,719
have writer an author. What is this stuff? You know,

867
00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:22,000
how do you analyze you know, memes and folklore. It's like, yep,

868
00:40:22,079 --> 00:40:24,239
no problem is what we do, right, We'll show you

869
00:40:24,239 --> 00:40:26,199
how you do it. So we're in a much more

870
00:40:26,239 --> 00:40:29,679
folkloric age. Now than we have been since at least

871
00:40:29,719 --> 00:40:32,000
the development of the printing press. I would say, right,

872
00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:34,599
this is the most of our culture is very folkloric

873
00:40:34,679 --> 00:40:37,559
in nature. And it's also like again changing our notion

874
00:40:37,599 --> 00:40:39,159
of what it is to be what to be, you know,

875
00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:44,119
the under thirty five crowd, they're not really very religious

876
00:40:44,159 --> 00:40:47,639
in the sense that, right, spiritual but not religious. This

877
00:40:47,760 --> 00:40:49,280
is the overwhelming thing. So they're not going to sign

878
00:40:49,360 --> 00:40:52,599
up for a denomination, Like denominations are plummeting, right, But

879
00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:55,840
it's not that they're not spiritual.

880
00:40:56,280 --> 00:40:58,719
Speaker 1: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor

881
00:41:02,400 --> 00:41:03,679
and now back to the show.

882
00:41:05,719 --> 00:41:07,519
Speaker 3: But what it is is that they're tapping into all

883
00:41:07,519 --> 00:41:09,360
this stuff around the world. Right, you don't have to

884
00:41:09,360 --> 00:41:11,840
stick with your your one hometown's religion. It comes from

885
00:41:11,840 --> 00:41:13,679
a small town and we're a Baptist down or we're

886
00:41:13,679 --> 00:41:16,239
a Lutheran town. You can pick from all the world. Right,

887
00:41:16,280 --> 00:41:18,400
So people are kind of it's this smorgasborg and feed like, yeah,

888
00:41:18,440 --> 00:41:20,320
I like that karma idea, you know.

889
00:41:20,440 --> 00:41:23,639
Speaker 1: And then but incarnation, yeah, maybe I reincarnation.

890
00:41:23,920 --> 00:41:26,840
Speaker 3: I like that Native American animal stuff, and I like

891
00:41:26,920 --> 00:41:29,960
I like the karma, you know, And so they're crafting

892
00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:33,000
this whole new sort of spiritual universe on a global scale,

893
00:41:33,039 --> 00:41:36,039
which is just phenomenal to witness in real time. And

894
00:41:36,079 --> 00:41:37,920
then with us comes a lot of wacky beliefs. I

895
00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:40,360
have to say, like the whole you know, extraterrestrial belief

896
00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:42,199
that this has really moved, you know, for a lot

897
00:41:42,199 --> 00:41:44,199
of people that maybe legendary, like maybe it's true, maybe

898
00:41:44,199 --> 00:41:46,360
it's not like like sasquats, but for a lot of people,

899
00:41:46,360 --> 00:41:48,760
this is like this is this is this is myth,

900
00:41:48,840 --> 00:41:51,079
this is sacred stuff. Like we this has something to

901
00:41:51,079 --> 00:41:52,800
do with who we are, like we are part star

902
00:41:52,880 --> 00:41:57,199
people or something, and we're not really earthlings or something.

903
00:41:57,199 --> 00:41:59,719
This is a huge news sort of religious development. The

904
00:41:59,760 --> 00:42:02,480
other new religions developments just sort of kind of goes

905
00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:05,400
hand in hand sometimes. And that's the you know, transhumanism.

906
00:42:05,519 --> 00:42:07,679
We're gonna be able to upload our consciousness to the

907
00:42:07,679 --> 00:42:11,559
cloud and live forever in a video game environment. Number one.

908
00:42:11,599 --> 00:42:13,679
I don't. I don't think so, right. I don't think

909
00:42:13,679 --> 00:42:15,679
it works that way. I don't believe we can separate

910
00:42:15,719 --> 00:42:20,519
consciousness from our body in any sort of computer generated way.

911
00:42:20,639 --> 00:42:22,599
You know. We we like to think that there's this

912
00:42:22,920 --> 00:42:25,079
mind we have a let's look at that word like

913
00:42:25,159 --> 00:42:27,239
a mind. What is a mind? And it's basically the

914
00:42:27,280 --> 00:42:30,679
same word as soul, right, because you know what is

915
00:42:30,679 --> 00:42:33,199
your mind? Can you Has anybody ever seen a mind?

916
00:42:33,480 --> 00:42:36,559
Way to mind? You know? Is it a metaphor? You

917
00:42:36,599 --> 00:42:39,639
know you say, oh, you know you have a mind.

918
00:42:39,679 --> 00:42:43,000
I have a mind. Really, I have neurons, synapses, I

919
00:42:43,039 --> 00:42:45,599
have a brain. Is that what you mean a mind? No?

920
00:42:45,679 --> 00:42:49,440
Not really right? So you know this, I think the

921
00:42:49,559 --> 00:42:52,280
move now is away from this Cartesian view set up

922
00:42:52,280 --> 00:42:54,800
by Renee de Carda's mind body split. We know that's

923
00:42:54,840 --> 00:42:58,719
not quite true, and towards this idea of you know,

924
00:42:59,159 --> 00:43:02,559
embodied conscientishness. It really it is our synapses and neurons

925
00:43:02,599 --> 00:43:06,280
and stuff that is that is producing this effect, at

926
00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:08,639
least for our experience of it. So you can't sort

927
00:43:08,639 --> 00:43:11,400
of separate out your consciousness from your biology. I'll give

928
00:43:11,400 --> 00:43:13,679
you a real simple example, right. I like to have

929
00:43:13,679 --> 00:43:15,280
a little bit of yogurt every day in the morning,

930
00:43:15,559 --> 00:43:18,480
probiotic And one of the reasons is that has been

931
00:43:18,679 --> 00:43:21,639
shound that if you have little probiotic yoga, it lowers

932
00:43:21,639 --> 00:43:23,880
your stress levels. I take it a valuume and they've

933
00:43:23,880 --> 00:43:26,239
done nice test to show that this is really very

934
00:43:26,320 --> 00:43:30,719
very effective. And the reason is because that probiotic stuff

935
00:43:30,760 --> 00:43:33,559
is little micros. They live in your gut and they

936
00:43:33,599 --> 00:43:36,360
interact with you. So when I say, oh, you know,

937
00:43:36,440 --> 00:43:39,079
this is my mind, I don't mind. I'm not stressed,

938
00:43:39,360 --> 00:43:41,199
right or something like this, Well, part of it, it's

939
00:43:41,199 --> 00:43:43,599
those little guys living in my gut. I'm not going

940
00:43:43,679 --> 00:43:45,920
to be able to upload that, you know. I can't

941
00:43:45,920 --> 00:43:48,360
take those little guys with me, right, So that is

942
00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:51,280
how we experience the world is even through other organisms

943
00:43:51,280 --> 00:43:54,119
besides Homo sapien sapient organisms. Right, there's a lot of

944
00:43:54,119 --> 00:43:59,239
stuff in here that's not human DNA oh environment, Oh

945
00:43:59,320 --> 00:44:02,960
absolutely are and this is this is possible how we think, right,

946
00:44:03,159 --> 00:44:05,400
these are little organisms in here. Have you heard of

947
00:44:05,400 --> 00:44:07,960
toxoplasmos gandhi. This is my new project I'm working.

948
00:44:08,000 --> 00:44:09,320
Speaker 1: No, I haven't heard that one though.

949
00:44:09,840 --> 00:44:15,000
Speaker 3: Right, Right, So Toxoplasmis gandhi is as a little parasite.

950
00:44:16,159 --> 00:44:18,000
About one third of the people in the world might

951
00:44:18,079 --> 00:44:20,920
be caring us in their brain. A lot of people

952
00:44:20,920 --> 00:44:26,000
are asymptomatic. But for those who become symptomatic cosmoplasmosis, once

953
00:44:26,000 --> 00:44:28,559
you get past the initial effects. It tends to make

954
00:44:28,639 --> 00:44:32,920
people just a little bit more reckless, So that can

955
00:44:33,000 --> 00:44:34,960
be bad, that can be good. It seems to be

956
00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:37,519
tied to like entrepreneurships, starting your own business.

957
00:44:38,760 --> 00:44:41,760
Speaker 2: I must have it, I must have it then, sir, right.

958
00:44:41,719 --> 00:44:43,519
Speaker 3: Just sort of you know, those who like to live

959
00:44:43,519 --> 00:44:45,960
on the edge. Right, So that's it's a significant portion

960
00:44:46,599 --> 00:44:49,320
of humanity. And I'm probably infected. I don't know, Okay,

961
00:44:49,559 --> 00:44:51,960
you know, I sort of haven't had the little, you know,

962
00:44:52,280 --> 00:44:55,440
cloistered life, and so you know, if you are one

963
00:44:55,440 --> 00:44:57,599
of those people, there's a very good chance that you

964
00:44:57,639 --> 00:45:00,320
may think that's you, and it is. But part of

965
00:45:00,360 --> 00:45:03,039
you is this little parasite you have in your brain.

966
00:45:03,519 --> 00:45:05,679
We got this mostly from domestic cats, by the way,

967
00:45:06,360 --> 00:45:08,400
So cultures that have a lot of domestic cats have

968
00:45:08,480 --> 00:45:11,800
more of this, and therefore more have more reckless individuals.

969
00:45:12,079 --> 00:45:15,599
You know. That produces heroes, that produces fools, that produces you.

970
00:45:15,559 --> 00:45:21,719
Speaker 1: Know, innovators, innovators leaders, because you've got to be I mean,

971
00:45:21,719 --> 00:45:23,559
you got to be a little crazy to do certain things.

972
00:45:23,639 --> 00:45:25,800
Speaker 3: You know, in life, those who are successful and those

973
00:45:25,800 --> 00:45:28,960
who die young both, right, I mean that's the same crown.

974
00:45:30,360 --> 00:45:33,920
Speaker 1: Hopefully you can balance it between the two somewhere hopefully.

975
00:45:35,440 --> 00:45:38,360
So I wanted to go back to what you said earlier,

976
00:45:38,440 --> 00:45:42,760
that religion really is is just going down from where

977
00:45:42,760 --> 00:45:46,400
than when I was born, you know, generally speaking, generally speaking,

978
00:45:47,119 --> 00:45:51,760
especially originally, I was born into Catholicism. Over the last

979
00:45:51,800 --> 00:45:54,320
thirty years, you mean, the numbers in the churches are

980
00:45:54,320 --> 00:45:57,840
starting to just go down, down, down, And you're right,

981
00:45:57,880 --> 00:46:01,159
these new new generations coming up, they just like, what this,

982
00:46:02,199 --> 00:46:03,159
this doesn't make any sense.

983
00:46:03,639 --> 00:46:05,920
Speaker 3: I set yourself to one little, one little pirate right

984
00:46:05,920 --> 00:46:08,199
when there's this whole global ortisport.

985
00:46:08,119 --> 00:46:10,679
Speaker 1: Right, and because there's so much more information coming in

986
00:46:10,760 --> 00:46:11,679
And I never thought of.

987
00:46:11,639 --> 00:46:13,320
Speaker 2: It that way, but you're absolutely right.

988
00:46:13,360 --> 00:46:16,719
Speaker 1: There's so much more knowledge before the people who would

989
00:46:16,760 --> 00:46:19,159
like to be born, let's say, Catholic. And then one

990
00:46:19,280 --> 00:46:22,840
day in a bookstore, happened to run across a book

991
00:46:22,840 --> 00:46:25,960
about a yogi or or the Bagadavita or something like that,

992
00:46:26,039 --> 00:46:27,440
and go, oh what, but.

993
00:46:27,440 --> 00:46:30,320
Speaker 3: Now maybe that's it, and then you switch over. Yeah. Instead,

994
00:46:30,400 --> 00:46:32,039
now they'll just take a little bits and pieces from

995
00:46:32,039 --> 00:46:32,760
all these differ.

996
00:46:32,559 --> 00:46:34,639
Speaker 1: But now it's but now it's that information is so

997
00:46:35,519 --> 00:46:37,800
ingrained in our culture. I mean a lot of people

998
00:46:37,880 --> 00:46:41,679
know about karma, about reincarnation. Those are revolutionary ideas one

999
00:46:41,760 --> 00:46:46,400
hundred years ago in the West, revolutionary ideas. So where

1000
00:46:46,400 --> 00:46:47,679
do we think, Where do you think this is going

1001
00:46:47,719 --> 00:46:49,440
to go in one hundred years from now, two hundred

1002
00:46:49,480 --> 00:46:49,920
years from now.

1003
00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:52,679
Speaker 3: Yeah, isn't it fascinating? Because again we're sitting seeing we're

1004
00:46:52,760 --> 00:46:55,400
right on the cusp of the biggest transformation that humanity's

1005
00:46:55,440 --> 00:46:57,880
probably ever gone through, and not many people have in

1006
00:46:58,039 --> 00:47:00,719
history been able to say that. So that's a tremendously

1007
00:47:00,760 --> 00:47:03,000
interesting time to be, you know, looking at this and

1008
00:47:03,039 --> 00:47:05,440
watching this and wondering about where all this is headed,

1009
00:47:06,320 --> 00:47:07,960
because it's going to be radically different. You know. One

1010
00:47:08,000 --> 00:47:10,280
of the predictions I make is my grandchildren probably won't

1011
00:47:10,320 --> 00:47:11,440
read and write.

1012
00:47:12,079 --> 00:47:14,079
Speaker 2: You know what, And that's not that's not too far

1013
00:47:14,159 --> 00:47:15,079
fetched because.

1014
00:47:14,840 --> 00:47:18,079
Speaker 1: I'm looking at I'm looking at Ai right now, and

1015
00:47:18,119 --> 00:47:21,840
I'm going so wait a minute. One of my predictions

1016
00:47:21,880 --> 00:47:23,199
is I don't think the web is going to be

1017
00:47:23,480 --> 00:47:24,880
the way it is now. There's not gonna be web

1018
00:47:24,880 --> 00:47:27,360
pages anymore. Web pages will eventually go the way of

1019
00:47:27,400 --> 00:47:30,000
the Dodo. Because you'll just ask Ai, and AI will

1020
00:47:30,000 --> 00:47:31,239
give you the answer. Why would you go to a

1021
00:47:31,280 --> 00:47:35,880
web page unless it's something artistic or something very individualized

1022
00:47:36,559 --> 00:47:38,800
for that person to go. But it's not the way

1023
00:47:38,800 --> 00:47:41,360
that we're looking for information today. Once AI gets to

1024
00:47:41,400 --> 00:47:44,880
a point where you could just ask AI anything it knows,

1025
00:47:44,880 --> 00:47:46,559
so then if you could ask AI, but.

1026
00:47:46,880 --> 00:47:48,840
Speaker 3: It comes with a lot of dangers too, because people

1027
00:47:48,960 --> 00:47:53,000
justn't really believing in AI, right, there's a lot of

1028
00:47:53,079 --> 00:47:54,920
One of the things I think kind of tracking is

1029
00:47:56,159 --> 00:47:59,239
sort of information technologies in the afterlife, Like how there's

1030
00:47:59,280 --> 00:48:01,599
all these stories is about that this is sort of

1031
00:48:02,360 --> 00:48:04,280
the AI can have a soul or the you know.

1032
00:48:05,079 --> 00:48:07,000
So people are really starting to believe this, and and

1033
00:48:07,039 --> 00:48:10,519
I think it's problematic because well it's like the guy

1034
00:48:10,559 --> 00:48:12,480
who you know there was It happens a lot. But

1035
00:48:12,480 --> 00:48:13,800
I was just reading the story about a guy who

1036
00:48:13,800 --> 00:48:16,400
had like this AI girlfriend who built up with him

1037
00:48:16,440 --> 00:48:19,880
and then he committed suicide and because you were so heartbroken,

1038
00:48:19,920 --> 00:48:22,360
and so people are like investing their emotions, which are

1039
00:48:22,360 --> 00:48:29,920
biological emotions into these similacra if there us, but they're not.

1040
00:48:30,000 --> 00:48:31,400
And then the reason they're not is that they're not

1041
00:48:31,480 --> 00:48:34,320
biological organisms. They don't care. You know, the guy the

1042
00:48:34,360 --> 00:48:36,679
girlfriend who broke up with the guy. You know, most girlfriends,

1043
00:48:36,679 --> 00:48:38,199
if they're like, you know, if they break up the

1044
00:48:38,239 --> 00:48:41,000
guy committed suicide, he would feel bad. This AI did

1045
00:48:41,039 --> 00:48:43,320
not feel bad, right, not one little bit. It doesn't

1046
00:48:43,320 --> 00:48:45,679
feel right. And so people are falling in love with

1047
00:48:45,719 --> 00:48:48,320
these things that cannot love them back because love is

1048
00:48:48,320 --> 00:48:52,039
the biological phenomenon. So there's a lot of danger with AI.

1049
00:48:52,119 --> 00:48:55,039
And people trust AI too, so you know, it's like, well,

1050
00:48:55,039 --> 00:48:58,039
the computer says that you know, they were using AI

1051
00:48:58,199 --> 00:49:01,519
for doing parole hearings like answer recidivism, right, like how

1052
00:49:01,519 --> 00:49:03,719
how likely is it that this person is going to

1053
00:49:03,760 --> 00:49:06,360
commit another crime? And and they just feed this to

1054
00:49:06,400 --> 00:49:08,239
the AAI. Well, one of the things they figured out

1055
00:49:08,280 --> 00:49:10,119
was that the a I was looking at is they're

1056
00:49:10,320 --> 00:49:12,320
identified race, and so if they come up as black,

1057
00:49:12,360 --> 00:49:14,039
they're like, oh, well you're you're far more likely to

1058
00:49:14,039 --> 00:49:16,360
get arrested for another crime again, right, And so they

1059
00:49:16,400 --> 00:49:18,480
could be held in jail because the AI said they

1060
00:49:18,440 --> 00:49:20,039
are more likely to get arrested, and they are more

1061
00:49:20,119 --> 00:49:21,840
likely to get arrested. But that's not the point. It

1062
00:49:21,840 --> 00:49:23,679
doesn't mean that they're all like to do a crime.

1063
00:49:23,960 --> 00:49:25,960
It just means they're more likely to get arrested, right,

1064
00:49:26,360 --> 00:49:29,039
given the racism in our society. So you know where

1065
00:49:29,079 --> 00:49:31,159
does the EI get all this stuff from these racist

1066
00:49:31,159 --> 00:49:34,360
ideas from us? Right? So I get any stuff from

1067
00:49:34,360 --> 00:49:36,760
from us, and so all of our foibles are just

1068
00:49:37,199 --> 00:49:40,440
being you know, aggregated into the AI. And then people

1069
00:49:40,440 --> 00:49:42,239
believe that it's like, well, the computers has well.

1070
00:49:42,280 --> 00:49:45,079
Speaker 1: But to be fair, though, isn't it, that's exactly what

1071
00:49:45,119 --> 00:49:47,960
happens to a baby. The baby comes impure, and all

1072
00:49:48,000 --> 00:49:50,000
of our racism and all of.

1073
00:49:49,960 --> 00:49:52,920
Speaker 3: Our yes, yes, but these are biological they care.

1074
00:49:53,119 --> 00:49:55,360
Speaker 1: No, no, no, no, no, no, I'm not I'm not arguing

1075
00:49:55,400 --> 00:49:57,079
that part. But I'm arguing the programming.

1076
00:49:57,239 --> 00:49:59,760
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, you know, but but we don't treat these

1077
00:49:59,800 --> 00:50:01,920
things like baby so much. We treat them like parents,

1078
00:50:02,000 --> 00:50:04,320
like this is the expert, right, this is the right.

1079
00:50:05,000 --> 00:50:07,840
Speaker 1: But because but also it's it's unheard of. Look like

1080
00:50:08,480 --> 00:50:11,719
two years ago AI was barely a blip, and now

1081
00:50:11,760 --> 00:50:16,159
it's everywhere, and it's moving so fast. I mean, I

1082
00:50:16,239 --> 00:50:16,440
love it.

1083
00:50:16,800 --> 00:50:19,320
Speaker 3: Everything's moving so fast, right, I mean our technology. Well,

1084
00:50:19,320 --> 00:50:21,199
that's one of the things about globalization. All of a sudden,

1085
00:50:21,280 --> 00:50:24,000
all the technicians, all the scholars, all this information is

1086
00:50:24,079 --> 00:50:26,000
just going around the world. You know it used to be.

1087
00:50:26,199 --> 00:50:27,559
You know, even when I was you know what I

1088
00:50:27,760 --> 00:50:30,360
was before the Internet. I remember this like even if

1089
00:50:30,360 --> 00:50:33,000
a scientist was doing studies, it would publish something. It

1090
00:50:33,000 --> 00:50:35,920
would be years before we get translated into French and

1091
00:50:35,960 --> 00:50:38,199
the French scholar is working on something similar to be like,

1092
00:50:38,280 --> 00:50:40,679
oh my god, here's this. Some scholar in America is

1093
00:50:40,719 --> 00:50:42,679
working on this. I must write him a letter. Right,

1094
00:50:42,719 --> 00:50:44,760
so science went really slow.

1095
00:50:46,760 --> 00:50:49,280
Speaker 1: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,

1096
00:50:52,880 --> 00:50:57,719
and now back to the show. It's it's interesting too

1097
00:50:57,719 --> 00:51:01,039
because now AI is and it's in its infancy, but

1098
00:51:01,119 --> 00:51:04,679
I'm using AI to translate the show. I have five

1099
00:51:04,800 --> 00:51:08,960
I have six channels in different languages and growing, and

1100
00:51:09,119 --> 00:51:12,800
so the speed of information, just like this conversation was

1101
00:51:12,840 --> 00:51:17,199
limited to whoever could speak English or maybe read close captionings.

1102
00:51:17,360 --> 00:51:21,000
Maybe if I offered ten languages in close captioning, which

1103
00:51:21,039 --> 00:51:23,960
is also being created by an AI, because manually it's

1104
00:51:24,000 --> 00:51:26,239
just too damn expensive to do. So now this is

1105
00:51:26,280 --> 00:51:29,119
growing so much faster. So it's just it's just compounding

1106
00:51:29,119 --> 00:51:31,920
on itself. It's a compound interest where at that point

1107
00:51:31,960 --> 00:51:34,639
where it's just like now we're at the hockey stick

1108
00:51:34,719 --> 00:51:37,000
stage in humanity, would you agree?

1109
00:51:37,280 --> 00:51:40,360
Speaker 3: Yes, absolutely, But also we're at that cliff stage, right.

1110
00:51:40,400 --> 00:51:45,440
So some side of this is global climate change, you know,

1111
00:51:45,840 --> 00:51:51,079
little warming. We're going through the sixth grade extinction right

1112
00:51:51,119 --> 00:51:54,719
now of the loss of biodiversity. We are literally killing Earth.

1113
00:51:55,920 --> 00:51:58,440
And so as people become more enamored by these ais

1114
00:51:58,440 --> 00:52:02,320
some malacra AI, by the way, really energy intensive. You know,

1115
00:52:02,800 --> 00:52:05,559
it sucks a lot of juice. Well, how are you

1116
00:52:05,599 --> 00:52:09,000
going to supply that juice? Oh, well down another river. Well,

1117
00:52:09,039 --> 00:52:11,599
you know, blast a few mountains and you know, so

1118
00:52:11,719 --> 00:52:13,480
there's a cost to all this, and that cost is

1119
00:52:13,519 --> 00:52:16,559
really a very concerning cost, right. And I'm not saying

1120
00:52:16,559 --> 00:52:18,440
the AI is the soul cost, not at all. It's

1121
00:52:18,440 --> 00:52:22,920
the whole capitalism, right, this is yeah. And so again,

1122
00:52:23,000 --> 00:52:24,800
this is the sixth great extinction of life on Earth.

1123
00:52:24,840 --> 00:52:26,840
And the last one was sixty five million years ago

1124
00:52:26,880 --> 00:52:29,400
when we got hit by an asteroid. Okay, this one

1125
00:52:29,480 --> 00:52:32,480
is not any external force. It's actually an organism of

1126
00:52:32,519 --> 00:52:34,360
the Earth that is killing the Earth. And that's us.

1127
00:52:34,519 --> 00:52:36,760
And that's also going on during my lifetime. So you

1128
00:52:36,840 --> 00:52:40,079
got these two processes that are transforming planet of the

1129
00:52:40,079 --> 00:52:43,599
Earth going on at the same time, right, and they're interlinked.

1130
00:52:43,599 --> 00:52:45,440
You know, maybe maybe our science are going to get

1131
00:52:45,519 --> 00:52:47,800
enough together and we'll figure out how to save the planet.

1132
00:52:47,880 --> 00:52:50,639
Right maybe, or maybe in trying to do this, we're

1133
00:52:50,679 --> 00:52:52,960
actually going to help destroy the planet. But you know,

1134
00:52:53,119 --> 00:52:55,239
the stakes are high. The stakes are very high.

1135
00:52:55,480 --> 00:52:57,880
Speaker 1: So let me ask you this though, would you agree

1136
00:52:58,000 --> 00:53:03,920
throughout history there's always different chapters in humans in Humanity's

1137
00:53:04,280 --> 00:53:08,920
book essentially, and in those chapter changes old systems have

1138
00:53:09,119 --> 00:53:13,519
to be destroyed or have to fall away, and are

1139
00:53:13,599 --> 00:53:17,320
we're right now in a sense of like systems, economic systems,

1140
00:53:17,920 --> 00:53:22,960
leadership systems, of political systems, food systems, information systems.

1141
00:53:23,119 --> 00:53:24,679
Speaker 2: There's things that change so.

1142
00:53:24,760 --> 00:53:27,639
Speaker 1: Dramatically and in our lifetime. I think you and I

1143
00:53:27,679 --> 00:53:32,159
are of similar vintage. In our lifetime, we've seen so

1144
00:53:32,280 --> 00:53:34,679
much change. You and I were both born before the Internet.

1145
00:53:34,840 --> 00:53:35,840
Speaker 2: I'm assuming.

1146
00:53:37,199 --> 00:53:39,440
Speaker 3: We're one of those rare people in the history of

1147
00:53:39,480 --> 00:53:41,440
the world that had a foot on either side of this.

1148
00:53:41,920 --> 00:53:42,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, gen X.

1149
00:53:42,719 --> 00:53:45,760
Speaker 1: Gen X has that foot in both worlds, which is

1150
00:53:45,760 --> 00:53:48,599
a weird We're a very unique generation in that sense

1151
00:53:48,679 --> 00:53:50,719
because we know what it was like before a remote

1152
00:53:50,719 --> 00:53:54,320
control was on a television, and we also remember the

1153
00:53:54,360 --> 00:53:56,119
first time on an internet I saw a web page

1154
00:53:57,039 --> 00:53:59,559
and home computers and cell.

1155
00:53:59,320 --> 00:54:01,599
Speaker 2: Phones and this is so much has changed.

1156
00:54:01,760 --> 00:54:03,360
Speaker 3: You know. Let me and my dad, who just passed

1157
00:54:03,360 --> 00:54:05,320
away a couple of years ago, right at the age

1158
00:54:05,320 --> 00:54:08,639
of ninety four. And you know, he remembers growing up

1159
00:54:08,760 --> 00:54:12,119
as a young boy and his parents took him to

1160
00:54:12,239 --> 00:54:16,760
the big town of Chicago to see this new thing radio, right,

1161
00:54:17,920 --> 00:54:20,880
So that's you know, in my dad sea radio radio.

1162
00:54:20,960 --> 00:54:22,639
So he had the iPad and you would be like,

1163
00:54:22,760 --> 00:54:24,880
you know, zeeman, and to see the grandkids and a thing.

1164
00:54:25,000 --> 00:54:27,840
But you know, think about change in his lifetime, you know.

1165
00:54:27,960 --> 00:54:31,400
And my grandpa he was like, oh I remember before cars.

1166
00:54:31,599 --> 00:54:33,119
Speaker 2: Or airplanes or anything like that.

1167
00:54:33,440 --> 00:54:35,719
Speaker 3: They were invented, but nobody had them. It was all

1168
00:54:35,760 --> 00:54:38,400
horse And that was my grandfather, you know. I mean

1169
00:54:38,800 --> 00:54:41,000
that think of how much has changed in just a

1170
00:54:41,039 --> 00:54:42,280
few short generations.

1171
00:54:42,480 --> 00:54:45,519
Speaker 1: Right in the generations, but now even within our generation,

1172
00:54:45,719 --> 00:54:47,159
the mass changed.

1173
00:54:47,760 --> 00:54:48,400
Speaker 2: It's just it's.

1174
00:54:48,880 --> 00:54:50,480
Speaker 3: Going to kick it up even faster. Right, this is

1175
00:54:50,519 --> 00:54:52,719
just pouring gasoline on the fire where it's like, who

1176
00:54:53,400 --> 00:54:54,440
so these old take off.

1177
00:54:54,840 --> 00:54:56,840
Speaker 1: So let me ask you this from your from your

1178
00:54:56,840 --> 00:55:01,480
research and your studies, you've seen these othersystems crash to

1179
00:55:01,519 --> 00:55:04,079
come up with something new, crash to come something up

1180
00:55:04,079 --> 00:55:04,440
the new.

1181
00:55:04,760 --> 00:55:05,599
Speaker 2: We're in that.

1182
00:55:05,639 --> 00:55:08,199
Speaker 1: Place, I feel right now, because you're saying we're moving

1183
00:55:08,239 --> 00:55:12,440
so fast that old religious religion is as we knew

1184
00:55:12,480 --> 00:55:14,280
it growing up is going to probably in the next

1185
00:55:14,280 --> 00:55:16,519
one hundred years not exist in the same way by

1186
00:55:16,519 --> 00:55:20,360
any stretch of imagination. Probably our political systems probably won't change.

1187
00:55:20,480 --> 00:55:22,079
Speaker 2: Probably our monetary nation state.

1188
00:55:22,119 --> 00:55:23,639
Speaker 3: Why do we have the nation state anymore? When we

1189
00:55:23,639 --> 00:55:25,559
can talk to everybody on the world. We've got global

1190
00:55:25,840 --> 00:55:29,079
you know, issues like climate change, and yet we have

1191
00:55:29,159 --> 00:55:31,239
no global governance. I mean people say the United Nations.

1192
00:55:31,239 --> 00:55:33,320
I'm like, no, no, no, that's United Nations states. That

1193
00:55:33,400 --> 00:55:35,760
is not the United People of the world. Right, These

1194
00:55:35,760 --> 00:55:38,039
are all the nation state players get together what they want,

1195
00:55:38,440 --> 00:55:40,400
but these are not the people of the world. And

1196
00:55:40,440 --> 00:55:43,760
we have so we have global problems, global communication, but

1197
00:55:43,840 --> 00:55:45,960
no global governance. Obviously, I think if we're going to

1198
00:55:46,039 --> 00:55:48,639
save the planet, that has to change. There has to

1199
00:55:48,679 --> 00:55:52,719
be some sort of global governance. But is totally reimagining

1200
00:55:52,800 --> 00:55:56,280
on our political systems, right, I mean everything is going to.

1201
00:55:56,239 --> 00:56:00,440
Speaker 1: Change, and monetary systems and everything, everything.

1202
00:56:00,119 --> 00:56:02,440
Speaker 3: Language systems, language systems.

1203
00:56:02,559 --> 00:56:03,719
Speaker 2: I mean, I see a world.

1204
00:56:04,159 --> 00:56:08,039
Speaker 1: Look, and you know, I was overseas last summer and

1205
00:56:08,079 --> 00:56:10,639
I had my Google Translate on my phone and I

1206
00:56:10,639 --> 00:56:12,719
would go and I would talk to my Uber drivers

1207
00:56:13,119 --> 00:56:16,239
in Google Translate, and I could just see so clearly.

1208
00:56:16,360 --> 00:56:18,079
Speaker 2: Probably in my lifetime.

1209
00:56:17,880 --> 00:56:20,079
Speaker 1: There'll be a device that I'll pull it into my

1210
00:56:20,159 --> 00:56:23,199
ear and as I speak, it will translate real time

1211
00:56:23,320 --> 00:56:27,239
into somebody else's ear thing and we can communicate in language.

1212
00:56:27,280 --> 00:56:30,119
The Tower of Babbel is now destroyed, and language will

1213
00:56:30,159 --> 00:56:32,079
be free flown. Because right now language is still a

1214
00:56:32,119 --> 00:56:34,079
barrier for a lot of the world.

1215
00:56:34,360 --> 00:56:36,840
Speaker 3: But if also I imagine how much will be depending

1216
00:56:36,880 --> 00:56:39,920
on those right. Oh, no, it's.

1217
00:56:39,719 --> 00:56:44,000
Speaker 1: Going, but it's but it is something that is going

1218
00:56:44,039 --> 00:56:44,960
to eventually happen.

1219
00:56:45,079 --> 00:56:47,440
Speaker 2: Look, look, how dependent are we on these things?

1220
00:56:47,920 --> 00:56:50,800
Speaker 1: You know, Like I mean, you can't you can't live

1221
00:56:50,880 --> 00:56:54,519
without an iPhone generally speaking, if you're working on.

1222
00:56:54,599 --> 00:56:56,039
Speaker 3: You sort of I mean, you know, for a while,

1223
00:56:56,039 --> 00:56:57,559
like COVID, I had to have the little app on

1224
00:56:57,639 --> 00:56:59,159
here even to go to work. And it's like it's

1225
00:56:59,199 --> 00:57:01,719
sort of required like it to be sort of you know,

1226
00:57:01,760 --> 00:57:02,760
whether you want it or not.

1227
00:57:03,400 --> 00:57:06,199
Speaker 1: Right, So we're gonna be we've been leaning on technology

1228
00:57:06,199 --> 00:57:09,239
ever since the car like this is why.

1229
00:57:09,119 --> 00:57:10,679
Speaker 3: This is why I sneak away in the summers and

1230
00:57:10,719 --> 00:57:14,000
go back to my cabin and the last electricity, you know, nothing,

1231
00:57:14,440 --> 00:57:16,039
and I sit there for a while.

1232
00:57:16,239 --> 00:57:18,960
Speaker 2: And it's and it's nice to disconnect. It's nice to disconnect.

1233
00:57:18,960 --> 00:57:22,960
Speaker 1: But you know, you know, going down this road of conversation,

1234
00:57:23,039 --> 00:57:26,039
it's just really interesting to see where we're been, where

1235
00:57:26,079 --> 00:57:28,320
we are right now, which is I agree with you,

1236
00:57:28,400 --> 00:57:31,280
so one of the most exciting point times ever in

1237
00:57:31,320 --> 00:57:32,320
the history of humanity.

1238
00:57:32,840 --> 00:57:35,719
Speaker 3: Where dangerous time ever. I mean, we've never ever been

1239
00:57:35,719 --> 00:57:37,840
in the threat of losing all of humanity or even

1240
00:57:37,880 --> 00:57:41,239
worse like most of life on Earth, even beyond us, right,

1241
00:57:41,880 --> 00:57:43,719
And again that's really concerning. Where are you know? This

1242
00:57:43,800 --> 00:57:47,039
is this is happening during our lifetime, an edge of

1243
00:57:47,079 --> 00:57:48,960
life on Earth, and it's our fault. And I mean,

1244
00:57:49,000 --> 00:57:51,719
and I mean to us Western capitalists it's it's it's

1245
00:57:52,000 --> 00:57:54,280
it's our fault, right, And so this is this is

1246
00:57:54,360 --> 00:57:55,559
really not a good situation.

1247
00:57:55,679 --> 00:57:58,039
Speaker 1: So yeah, and then and then the potential of obviously

1248
00:57:58,199 --> 00:58:03,199
the continuously old idea of war and pa.

1249
00:58:02,119 --> 00:58:04,159
Speaker 3: Yeah, and we're getting better and better weapons and now

1250
00:58:04,199 --> 00:58:09,760
we've got these drones. Great, yeah, the drones that can

1251
00:58:09,800 --> 00:58:13,920
shoot you and hunt you down. Oh yeah. Progress.

1252
00:58:13,440 --> 00:58:16,440
Speaker 1: So to let me ask you, where do you think

1253
00:58:16,559 --> 00:58:20,360
folklore and myth is going to exist in the future.

1254
00:58:20,920 --> 00:58:23,320
How is it going to help us continue to grow

1255
00:58:23,559 --> 00:58:26,639
as a species if we make it, sir, if.

1256
00:58:26,480 --> 00:58:28,559
Speaker 3: We make it that yeah, well that's a good question.

1257
00:58:28,639 --> 00:58:31,960
This moment might be menticized in the future, because this

1258
00:58:32,079 --> 00:58:35,079
is going to be an epical moment in creating whatever

1259
00:58:35,159 --> 00:58:38,719
comes in acts. So this could be a disaster story,

1260
00:58:38,880 --> 00:58:41,840
it could be a heroic success story. But a lot

1261
00:58:41,880 --> 00:58:44,039
of it depends on what we do now, I would say.

1262
00:58:45,239 --> 00:58:46,480
And then you know, you can look at from all

1263
00:58:46,480 --> 00:58:49,199
storts angles. They did a paper recently about you know,

1264
00:58:50,199 --> 00:58:52,559
the future of ghost stories, and I was talking about

1265
00:58:52,559 --> 00:58:55,679
the future of being haunted. So being haunted by online, right,

1266
00:58:55,679 --> 00:58:58,480
there's all these stories about that or being AI is

1267
00:58:58,519 --> 00:59:00,840
sort of as a spirit media. You know, there's all

1268
00:59:00,880 --> 00:59:04,440
these stories about people, uh, the ais connecting them with

1269
00:59:04,480 --> 00:59:09,880
the spirit realm. Oh, it's all these stories. I've been clicked. Yeah,

1270
00:59:09,880 --> 00:59:12,800
so you know people text messages from the beyond. That's

1271
00:59:12,880 --> 00:59:15,239
very common, has been around for a long time. Again,

1272
00:59:15,320 --> 00:59:17,760
this is mostly the younger crowd, right, the guys who've

1273
00:59:17,760 --> 00:59:20,400
grown up and guys who have grown up online. This

1274
00:59:20,519 --> 00:59:23,000
is their social lives. And so when they die, where

1275
00:59:23,039 --> 00:59:27,239
do they haunt? Right? Very often online? Uh, and so

1276
00:59:27,480 --> 00:59:30,239
text messages from the beyond that's really common. You know,

1277
00:59:30,480 --> 00:59:32,559
kids they commit suicide of the high school and they're

1278
00:59:32,599 --> 00:59:34,760
best betting it's it's okay, I'm in a better place

1279
00:59:34,760 --> 00:59:38,119
from an untraceable number, this sort of stuff. So there's

1280
00:59:38,159 --> 00:59:39,679
just a ton of this. And then the other idea

1281
00:59:39,760 --> 00:59:42,440
is like, well, AI have a soul, right, Well, AI,

1282
00:59:43,119 --> 00:59:45,760
what if you beat your android to death? Is gonna

1283
00:59:45,760 --> 00:59:49,440
help come and haunt you? That's the android ethics, right,

1284
00:59:49,519 --> 00:59:51,679
they're rolling out androids, Now, what are the ethics of

1285
00:59:51,719 --> 00:59:53,239
this stuff? Right? People are going to be marrying me.

1286
00:59:53,280 --> 00:59:55,079
People are going to be having sex with these they

1287
00:59:55,119 --> 00:59:58,079
already are, right, these sexual robots of stuff. So people

1288
00:59:58,079 --> 00:59:59,519
are gonna be falling in love with these because you know,

1289
00:59:59,559 --> 01:00:01,320
as humans have sex with something, there's a lot of

1290
01:00:01,360 --> 01:00:03,639
emotion and stuff that built up. They're not going to

1291
01:00:03,679 --> 01:00:07,480
love you back, but you know, so what are the

1292
01:00:07,480 --> 01:00:10,039
ethics of this? Can you beat your robot to death?

1293
01:00:10,159 --> 01:00:12,719
Is that okay? You know, sex robots.

1294
01:00:12,719 --> 01:00:16,800
Speaker 1: Is that Okay, We'll be right back after a word

1295
01:00:16,840 --> 01:00:22,519
from our sponsor, and now back to the show.

1296
01:00:24,559 --> 01:00:26,000
Speaker 3: There was a little town in Texas a couple of

1297
01:00:26,039 --> 01:00:27,599
years ago a guy announced he was going to open

1298
01:00:27,679 --> 01:00:30,519
up a robot brothel, and everybody's like, we've got to that.

1299
01:00:30,559 --> 01:00:32,320
It's got to be against the law. And I'm like, okay,

1300
01:00:32,320 --> 01:00:37,840
which law? You know? What would that say? Right? Yeah?

1301
01:00:37,840 --> 01:00:40,480
Speaker 1: Because you're again, old, old systems are going to be

1302
01:00:40,480 --> 01:00:43,679
breaking down because of this new ideas, new technology.

1303
01:00:44,079 --> 01:00:46,599
Speaker 2: I don't I don't personally.

1304
01:00:46,360 --> 01:00:50,960
Speaker 1: Think a digital brothel is a great idea sexual I

1305
01:00:50,960 --> 01:00:51,599
don't either.

1306
01:00:51,440 --> 01:00:52,880
Speaker 3: But again, like you're going to pass a lot, like

1307
01:00:52,880 --> 01:00:56,280
what would that last say? I mean, no, is it?

1308
01:00:56,760 --> 01:00:58,239
Is this a victim of the stand? In other words,

1309
01:00:58,239 --> 01:01:01,000
should they have rights? So this bring us into ethics,

1310
01:01:01,000 --> 01:01:02,920
which has never really kind of cleared up this issue,

1311
01:01:02,960 --> 01:01:06,280
like where is the moral transgression? Is it? Is it?

1312
01:01:06,320 --> 01:01:08,320
Does it have to have a victim? Right? In other words,

1313
01:01:08,320 --> 01:01:10,320
you have to be hurt by this? And if so,

1314
01:01:10,639 --> 01:01:13,280
it's an android a person or not. If an android's

1315
01:01:13,320 --> 01:01:16,239
just a machine, then I guess it's okay to beat

1316
01:01:16,239 --> 01:01:19,519
your android your death, or or have non consensual sex

1317
01:01:19,519 --> 01:01:22,039
with your android. I guess if it's a machine, I mean,

1318
01:01:22,400 --> 01:01:23,199
you don't you know.

1319
01:01:25,199 --> 01:01:27,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm going to say it's like conseexual, Like what

1320
01:01:27,519 --> 01:01:29,960
is con sexual with a with a machine?

1321
01:01:30,079 --> 01:01:32,599
Speaker 3: Like it doesn't But yeah, but it's gonna it's happening already, right,

1322
01:01:32,599 --> 01:01:34,480
people are buying. He's saying, people are sort of you know,

1323
01:01:34,559 --> 01:01:36,840
falling in love with them and even with their cyber

1324
01:01:36,880 --> 01:01:39,480
you know, people marrying their cyber girlfriends and all this

1325
01:01:39,519 --> 01:01:41,719
sort of stuff like that is at the cusp of

1326
01:01:41,760 --> 01:01:43,159
all this. You want to see what this is happening

1327
01:01:43,360 --> 01:01:45,360
to go to Japan. This is this is really where

1328
01:01:45,360 --> 01:01:47,400
it's where it's It's coming this way very quickly, but

1329
01:01:47,760 --> 01:01:51,199
it's already there. In Japan. Japan is not reproducing and

1330
01:01:51,280 --> 01:01:53,400
large partners of young people are not having sex.

1331
01:01:54,000 --> 01:01:55,880
Speaker 2: Right I heard about that, Yeah, I've heard. I've heard

1332
01:01:55,880 --> 01:01:56,199
about that.

1333
01:01:56,280 --> 01:01:58,760
Speaker 1: No, no, that that's a problem because the aren't they

1334
01:01:58,800 --> 01:02:03,320
the oldest, one of the oldest populations in the world, right.

1335
01:02:03,239 --> 01:02:05,800
Speaker 3: So in general, yeah, some of the more oldest populations

1336
01:02:05,880 --> 01:02:08,199
and then also the least birth rate, and so you

1337
01:02:08,239 --> 01:02:11,039
put those two together in Japan directly out of people

1338
01:02:11,159 --> 01:02:15,639
and their solution to this is to replace themselves with androids. Increasingly,

1339
01:02:15,840 --> 01:02:19,199
if androids, Japanese looking androids now doing jobs like taking

1340
01:02:19,239 --> 01:02:23,440
care of elderly and even kindergarten teaching at the hotel

1341
01:02:23,920 --> 01:02:26,760
interests exactly. So this is the idea that you know,

1342
01:02:26,800 --> 01:02:28,199
they don't want to bring in a lot of immigrants

1343
01:02:28,199 --> 01:02:30,119
in foreigners, which a lot of countries might do, so

1344
01:02:30,159 --> 01:02:36,519
they'd rather sort of create Japanese looking android androids. But

1345
01:02:36,559 --> 01:02:38,679
then they make that more of the culture. Right, so

1346
01:02:38,800 --> 01:02:40,719
you're going to get more people sort of marrying androids

1347
01:02:40,760 --> 01:02:42,800
and whatever else you want to say about cybrusex, you know,

1348
01:02:42,880 --> 01:02:45,320
or whatever. But it doesn't produce babies, right, so.

1349
01:02:45,599 --> 01:02:47,320
Speaker 2: Right, right, exactly.

1350
01:02:47,679 --> 01:02:50,599
Speaker 1: It's it is a fascinating time to be alive. This

1351
01:02:50,639 --> 01:02:53,559
has been a fascinating conversation. By the way, I'm going

1352
01:02:53,639 --> 01:02:56,360
to ask a few questions. Ask all my guests, what

1353
01:02:56,519 --> 01:03:00,480
is your definition of living a fulfilled life, living in

1354
01:03:00,480 --> 01:03:03,039
the fullest, a fulfilled life? Yeah, fulfilled life.

1355
01:03:02,920 --> 01:03:06,320
Speaker 3: Fulfilled life. Uh jeez, that's right, I don't really know.

1356
01:03:06,400 --> 01:03:08,920
I mean to find out what you want to do

1357
01:03:09,039 --> 01:03:11,159
and to pursue that, you know, to make sure that

1358
01:03:11,320 --> 01:03:13,440
you know there's something that you find is satisfying that

1359
01:03:14,119 --> 01:03:16,760
you think has value to other people. I think that's

1360
01:03:16,760 --> 01:03:19,000
really important. And that could be anything. That could be

1361
01:03:19,000 --> 01:03:21,239
being a bicycle repairment, it could be be a you know,

1362
01:03:21,280 --> 01:03:23,519
it's what you do that you can do that you

1363
01:03:23,559 --> 01:03:26,320
think can help others. I think that's that's it.

1364
01:03:27,239 --> 01:03:28,679
Speaker 1: If you had a chance to go back in time

1365
01:03:28,719 --> 01:03:32,480
and talk to little Took, what advice would you give him?

1366
01:03:32,519 --> 01:03:38,440
Speaker 3: Oh, oh my goodness, don't worry, it'll all work out.

1367
01:03:38,440 --> 01:03:40,679
You know, I don't have an easy way route here.

1368
01:03:40,719 --> 01:03:42,320
I didn't. I didn't, you know, I didn't take the

1369
01:03:42,320 --> 01:03:42,920
direct route.

1370
01:03:43,000 --> 01:03:45,320
Speaker 1: So you say, yeah, I was gonna say, folklore is

1371
01:03:45,360 --> 01:03:47,599
probably not the you know, like, hey guys, I'm gonna

1372
01:03:47,599 --> 01:03:48,239
study folklore.

1373
01:03:48,280 --> 01:03:52,039
Speaker 3: I'm like, okay, very very macho dad. It was very

1374
01:03:52,079 --> 01:03:54,280
sort of survivalist stuff. And so for me to be

1375
01:03:54,360 --> 01:03:58,280
interested in, you know, ancient miss and goddesses, it's like,

1376
01:03:58,480 --> 01:04:01,000
what you know. I don't think my dad ever quite

1377
01:04:01,039 --> 01:04:01,320
got me.

1378
01:04:01,360 --> 01:04:04,599
Speaker 1: I'll have to say, what is your definition of God

1379
01:04:04,800 --> 01:04:05,360
or source?

1380
01:04:05,800 --> 01:04:07,880
Speaker 3: I don't. What I do is I study how other

1381
01:04:07,920 --> 01:04:12,599
people define it. And that's fascinating God, God's goddesses, Goddess. Right,

1382
01:04:13,400 --> 01:04:15,639
you know which people have gods, which people have goddesses.

1383
01:04:16,239 --> 01:04:19,880
There's these great stuff and souls. We have one souls

1384
01:04:20,000 --> 01:04:23,039
it sort of the animistic soulfulness that sort of flows

1385
01:04:23,039 --> 01:04:25,239
to the material world. Is it the two souls of

1386
01:04:25,360 --> 01:04:29,000
Vodne or the five souls of the ancient Egyptian? Do

1387
01:04:29,039 --> 01:04:31,519
you have family souls? Your souls? You know? This is

1388
01:04:31,639 --> 01:04:35,320
is great stuff, you know, And I I study what

1389
01:04:35,360 --> 01:04:37,800
other people have said about this, right, And there's there's

1390
01:04:37,840 --> 01:04:39,079
so much to study out there.

1391
01:04:39,719 --> 01:04:42,960
Speaker 1: And what is the ultimate purpose of life?

1392
01:04:43,920 --> 01:04:45,360
Speaker 3: Well, I would like to believe that there is an

1393
01:04:45,360 --> 01:04:48,840
a little but purpose of life. I'm not sure, but if

1394
01:04:48,840 --> 01:04:51,639
there is, I imagine it has something to do with consciousness.

1395
01:04:51,920 --> 01:04:54,519
Just sort of trying to think as much as possible,

1396
01:04:55,119 --> 01:04:56,960
trying to understand right.

1397
01:04:57,519 --> 01:04:58,119
Speaker 2: Fair enough?

1398
01:04:58,320 --> 01:05:00,079
Speaker 1: And where can people find out more about you and

1399
01:05:00,159 --> 01:05:00,960
the work that you're doing.

1400
01:05:02,320 --> 01:05:04,559
Speaker 3: Oh? Well, you know, A nice thing about having a

1401
01:05:04,599 --> 01:05:08,199
strange name is I'm easy to google. So if you google,

1402
01:05:08,280 --> 01:05:11,000
you'll find me. A couple of books out There's one

1403
01:05:11,280 --> 01:05:14,400
recent one on post human folklore looking at the human

1404
01:05:14,440 --> 01:05:17,840
animal and the animal machine sort of ideas. Another one

1405
01:05:17,840 --> 01:05:20,039
on the truth of myth looking at you know, mythology,

1406
01:05:20,079 --> 01:05:22,360
what it is how we can analyze it. So I'm

1407
01:05:22,360 --> 01:05:24,719
always working on new stuff, on the new articles and

1408
01:05:24,840 --> 01:05:28,719
chapters and things. So again, google me. I'm I'm google able.

1409
01:05:30,440 --> 01:05:33,000
Speaker 1: So I appreciate you taking the time to have this conversation.

1410
01:05:33,039 --> 01:05:36,519
Has been fascinating to talk to you and hopefully, hopefully,

1411
01:05:36,719 --> 01:05:40,199
hopefully will help help some people understand where we are,

1412
01:05:40,599 --> 01:05:42,079
where we've been, and where we're going.

1413
01:05:42,719 --> 01:05:44,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, good luck with all that. Yeah, thanks very much.

1414
01:05:44,800 --> 01:05:46,280
It's been on fun talk.

1415
01:05:48,840 --> 01:05:51,400
Speaker 1: Thank you for spending this sacred time with us today.

1416
01:05:51,920 --> 01:05:55,039
If you feel called to explore this conversation further, you'll

1417
01:05:55,039 --> 01:05:57,559
find the show notes for this episode at Next levelsoul

1418
01:05:57,679 --> 01:06:01,679
dot com. Forward slash four T to zero and if

1419
01:06:01,719 --> 01:06:04,559
your soul is craving an even deeper journey, step into

1420
01:06:04,639 --> 01:06:09,320
Next level Soul TV, our streaming sanctuary for spiritual films, documentaries,

1421
01:06:09,559 --> 01:06:15,039
original shows, guided meditations, channeling sessions, audiobooks, and transformative teachings.

1422
01:06:15,519 --> 01:06:18,719
It's a space created to support your awakening, your healing,

1423
01:06:19,199 --> 01:06:21,840
and your return to the truth of who you really are.

1424
01:06:22,360 --> 01:06:26,960
Begin your journey at Next levelsoul dot tv. Until next time,

1425
01:06:27,360 --> 01:06:31,480
Keep expanding, keep seeking, and keep walking your path towards

1426
01:06:31,840 --> 01:06:33,440
the next level of your soul