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<v Speaker 1>Oh hey, it's that guy who saw you see him

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<v Speaker 1>bump his head and then you smile at each other

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<v Speaker 1>like that's okay. Ali Ward back with an episode of Ologies.

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<v Speaker 1>It's going to fix your whole life. Just kidding, Actually

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<v Speaker 1>maybe not. It very well might fix your life. I

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<v Speaker 1>love the life fixer episodes, and this ologist is someone

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<v Speaker 1>I've had in my sites for a few years. We

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<v Speaker 1>mentioned her work in the Oesomology episode with Neil Pazica,

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<v Speaker 1>and instead of just citing her, we're essentially interrogating her

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<v Speaker 1>now to shake her for brain science. So she got

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<v Speaker 1>her bachelor's in psychology and her master's and PhD in

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<v Speaker 1>cognition and Brain behavior from Harvard University and is now

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<v Speaker 1>a cognitive scientist and a psychology professor at Yale, where

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<v Speaker 1>she has taught the course Psychology and the Good Life. Oh,

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<v Speaker 1>she's been a ted speaker, she was named one of

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<v Speaker 1>Time magazines leading campus Celebrities, and she hosts a podcast

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<v Speaker 1>called The Happiness Lab. So it's been a wonky few

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<v Speaker 1>years we all know. And as one person who wrote

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<v Speaker 1>a review this week of Ology said, it always brings

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<v Speaker 1>a smile to my face when I hear people talk

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<v Speaker 1>about their passions. I'm grateful every day for ologies and

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<v Speaker 1>giving me my life back. Aj Buxton who left that review,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm very glad you're here. Thank you for leaving that

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<v Speaker 1>fresh one. Thank you to all the patrons who left

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<v Speaker 1>questions for this ologist. You too can join that club.

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<v Speaker 1>Cost twenty five cents an episode at patreon dot com. Okay,

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<v Speaker 1>so let's get into it. You demonology. Will I say

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<v Speaker 1>it right even one time? This episode? Stick around to

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<v Speaker 1>find out. So this is the science of happiness, and

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<v Speaker 1>it's been on the ology books a long time. It

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<v Speaker 1>comes from you deemon, which is Greek for a benevolent

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<v Speaker 1>demon or a good spirit, and it was a term

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<v Speaker 1>used by nineteenth century humanistic philosopher Arthur Schopenhauer, and he

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<v Speaker 1>called you demonology the art of ordering our lives so

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<v Speaker 1>as to obtain the greatest possible amount of pleasure and success.

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<v Speaker 1>But we're talking about the science of this art. So

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<v Speaker 1>how to shed the very comfortable, crusty shell of dissatisfaction

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<v Speaker 1>and anxiety with some good steps that have been proven

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<v Speaker 1>by research people to make your brain less of a

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<v Speaker 1>miserable bummer. So press pause on your sad inner goblins

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<v Speaker 1>and open your ears to hear about wanting versus craving,

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<v Speaker 1>being happy in your life, being happy with your life,

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<v Speaker 1>How happiness is even measured, Lottery winter statistics, the wealth

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<v Speaker 1>of free time, the power of a walk wheelbarrows of distractions,

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<v Speaker 1>When does positivity become toxic? How to get around the

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<v Speaker 1>achiness of the word gratitude, and some practical tips to

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<v Speaker 1>enjoy life on planet Earth before You're a pile of

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<v Speaker 1>forgotten bones with cognitive scientist, psychology professor, happiness Lab host,

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<v Speaker 1>Yale researcher, and you demonologist, doctor Lori Santos. Hello, doctor Santos,

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<v Speaker 1>how are you?

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<v Speaker 2>I'm great? Thanks.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm sure as a happiness doctor, as a as a

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<v Speaker 1>professor of happiness, you probably are inclined to say I

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<v Speaker 1>feel great. We're off.

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<v Speaker 2>You'd think I'm inclined to be honest, because one thing

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<v Speaker 2>that happiness science shows is that being honest about our

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<v Speaker 2>negative emotions is important too. So when things are tough,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm like, you know it's tough, but you know today's

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<v Speaker 2>been a good day.

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<v Speaker 1>That's great. I'm already learning so much. Can I have

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<v Speaker 1>you say, really quick, your first and last name and

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<v Speaker 1>your pronouns.

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<v Speaker 2>Sure, I'm Laurie Santos and my pronouns are she her.

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<v Speaker 1>You have been on my radar for years actually, and

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<v Speaker 1>so I'm really stoked to talk to you because this

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<v Speaker 1>is an ology that I've wanted to do, or I

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<v Speaker 1>think since before I even started the podcast. Do you

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<v Speaker 1>are you familiar with this? That word we homology? What amology?

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<v Speaker 1>What a monology?

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<v Speaker 2>No?

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<v Speaker 1>Maybe that word.

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<v Speaker 2>It's uied eo Oh sorry, yes, eudomology, maybe eutomology, yes,

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<v Speaker 2>like you diamonia is the yes.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, So I guess this is the study of that

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<v Speaker 1>feeling or that state. And you're the perfect person to

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<v Speaker 1>talk to you, because obviously you have your podcast and

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<v Speaker 1>you teach courses at Yale about this. So can you

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<v Speaker 1>tell me a little bit about your background. How did

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<v Speaker 1>you start studying cognition and feelings? Where did it start?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well, I've I've been a psychologist, you know, forever.

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<v Speaker 2>I think I've always been interested in the human mind

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<v Speaker 2>and how it works and things. But you know, before

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<v Speaker 2>I get into the study of happiness specifically, I was

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<v Speaker 2>really interested in the origins of cognition, so the origins

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<v Speaker 2>of how we think, and I study that by looking

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<v Speaker 2>at non human animals. I studied how monkeys and dogs

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<v Speaker 2>think about the world, and that was kind of my

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<v Speaker 2>day job until I took on a new role on

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<v Speaker 2>Yale's campus, where I became what's called a head of college.

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<v Speaker 2>And so Yale's kind of like one of these weird

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<v Speaker 2>schools like in Harry Potter, where there are like colleges

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<v Speaker 2>within a college, you know, like kind of Gryffindora Slytherin

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<v Speaker 2>sort of thing. I'm I'm head of Syllomon College and

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<v Speaker 2>that means I live on campus with students. And when

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<v Speaker 2>I started the role, I was expecting it to be

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<v Speaker 2>you know, like you know, rainbows and parties and just

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<v Speaker 2>like happy students all the time. But when I got there,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, I was really seeing the college student mental

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<v Speaker 2>health crisis up close and personal, you know, with so

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<v Speaker 2>many students reporting feeling depressed and anxious, and you know,

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<v Speaker 2>even if they weren't you know, at clinical levels of

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<v Speaker 2>mental health dysfunction, they were just kind of feeling stressed

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<v Speaker 2>and sort of fast forwarding their life, you know, and

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<v Speaker 2>just feeling overwhelmed and really busy. And so I kind

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<v Speaker 2>of wanted to do something about it, you know. I

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<v Speaker 2>didn't like being in this culture where so many students

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<v Speaker 2>were stressed and depressed and just kind of not enjoying

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<v Speaker 2>their time in college. And so I thought, well, let me,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, figure out what my field of psychology says

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<v Speaker 2>about this. And psychology gives us so many tips that

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<v Speaker 2>we can use to feel better. And so I thought,

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<v Speaker 2>all right, great, I'll you know, I'll do what professors do.

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<v Speaker 2>I'll make a whole class on this. So, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>I prepped this class that I christened Psychology in the

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<v Speaker 2>Good Life, and you know, slapped it together, thinking, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>thirty or so students would take it. And you can

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<v Speaker 2>imagine my surprise when a quarter of the entire campus

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<v Speaker 2>enrolled the first time I taught it. Yeah, we couldn't

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<v Speaker 2>We couldn't fit the class anywhere. We had to teach

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<v Speaker 2>it in a concert hall on campus because that was

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<v Speaker 2>the only place it would fit. But you know, that

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<v Speaker 2>showed me students are voting with their feet. They don't

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<v Speaker 2>like this culture of feeling so overwhelmed and stressed, and

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<v Speaker 2>I think they really wanted, you know, science based strategies

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<v Speaker 2>they could use to feel better.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, much different I think than just Instagram quotes on

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<v Speaker 1>a page. Here, you've got someone who studies the brain.

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<v Speaker 1>Who study psychology, you're probably people go into it with

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<v Speaker 1>a little bit of faith that you'll have some evidence

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<v Speaker 1>based information.

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<v Speaker 2>Right exactly. And you know, I mean, I think, you

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<v Speaker 2>know what, one of the things that's interesting as we learn,

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<v Speaker 2>as you look into the science, you learn that, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>some of those ancient pieces of wisdom were quite accurate.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, some of the platitudes we see are quite accurate,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, but some not so much, right, And I

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<v Speaker 2>think that's why we need an empirical approach. Right, we

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<v Speaker 2>can just ask scientifically, okay, if we find happy people,

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<v Speaker 2>what are they doing differently? What are their strategies, how

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<v Speaker 2>are they spending their time? And then we can let

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<v Speaker 2>them not so happy people copy that and really test

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<v Speaker 2>you are they feeling happier? Are they feeling less depressed?

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<v Speaker 2>And you know, these days, we have almost you know,

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<v Speaker 2>two decades worth of scientific work that's done that in

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<v Speaker 2>this field of positive psychology, and you know, we've learned

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<v Speaker 2>a lot. There's lots of evidence based tips out there

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<v Speaker 2>for what you can do to feel better.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay. So the term positive psychology was popularized by doctor

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<v Speaker 1>Martin Seligman, who felt that the contemporary psychology was just

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<v Speaker 1>too deeply focused on what's fucked up about us, not

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<v Speaker 1>how can we live better? So it focuses on things

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<v Speaker 1>like self discovery and a sense of purpose and expressing

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<v Speaker 1>yourself through creativity and authentically. So we're going to get

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<v Speaker 1>to more of that in a bit. But first, from

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<v Speaker 1>small hairy primates to larger, slightly less hairy primates like us.

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<v Speaker 1>And you know where did you make that jump from

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<v Speaker 1>non human primates and dogs into humans? Did you find

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<v Speaker 1>that a lot of the research just correlates based on

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<v Speaker 1>what our brain structures are, how our neurons work.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, it's interesting. The work I was doing with dogs

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<v Speaker 2>and monkeys was more kind of figuring out, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>how they decide what they know about the world. But

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<v Speaker 2>there was a rich similarity, which is that when you

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<v Speaker 2>start looking into the happiness science work, you quickly realize

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<v Speaker 2>a big way that we get things wrong, which is

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<v Speaker 2>that we have some really bad theories about the kinds

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<v Speaker 2>of things that make us happy. You know, I talk

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<v Speaker 2>to my students and on my podcast, I often say,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, our minds are lying to us about the

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<v Speaker 2>sorts of things that will make us happy. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>we think it's money and changing our circumstances and you know,

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<v Speaker 2>getting the perfect accolade or the perfect grade. But those

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<v Speaker 2>things seem not to work. And that tied really nice

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<v Speaker 2>to some of the work we were doing in animals,

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<v Speaker 2>where we showed that some of the deepest irrationalities we

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<v Speaker 2>have in our species might be evolutionarily old. They're kind

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<v Speaker 2>of built in. And I think the same thing about

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<v Speaker 2>some of the things we get wrong about happiness. Like,

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<v Speaker 2>even knowing these studies, it's hard for me to change

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<v Speaker 2>my intuitions. You know, I still think, well, if I,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, hit powerball today, oh man, I'd be so

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<v Speaker 2>much happier. Or you know, if it just wasn't raining today,

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<v Speaker 2>I'd be so much happier. If you know, we could

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<v Speaker 2>change my circumstances drastically, that would really improve my well being.

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<v Speaker 2>But I know the scientific work that suggests that's probably

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<v Speaker 2>not the case.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, So I looked into some data on if powerball

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<v Speaker 1>winners are happier, and it's a mixed bag of money.

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<v Speaker 1>So one thing for sure, people do take more vacations

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<v Speaker 1>when they win the lottery, And by contrast, sixty percent

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<v Speaker 1>of Americans take zero vacations a year and Apparently, one

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<v Speaker 1>thing that pleases us so much about vacations is just

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<v Speaker 1>having something, anything to look forward to. So just start

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<v Speaker 1>bring your calendar with any excursion you can, even if

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<v Speaker 1>it's just like a nice bowl of soup next Wednesday

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<v Speaker 1>or a hike next weekend, pack a picnic. Leisure time

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<v Speaker 1>on any scale is apparently worth a million bucks and

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<v Speaker 1>tax free. So hey, is happiness more about being happy

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<v Speaker 1>with ourselves and accepting ourselves or external circumstances or is

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<v Speaker 1>it mission base like you're on the right path to

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<v Speaker 1>doing something that you believe in.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's a few of all of those things. I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>I think one thing in terms of our circumstances. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>it's worth noting that if you're in really dire traumatic circumstances, yes,

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<v Speaker 2>getting different circumstances will really, you know, improve your well being.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, if you're living below the poverty line, or

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<v Speaker 2>if you're in an abusive relationship, you do want to

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<v Speaker 2>change those circumstances. But for many of the people privileged

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<v Speaker 2>enough to listen to this podcast, who can you know

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<v Speaker 2>put food on the table you know, has a roof

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<v Speaker 2>over the head and so on, you know, changing your

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<v Speaker 2>circumstances might not affect your happiness as much as as

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<v Speaker 2>you think. For many of us circumstances, isn't the changing

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<v Speaker 2>our circumstances isn't the fastest path to feeling a little

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<v Speaker 2>bit happier.

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<v Speaker 1>So is it? Mind over matter? This is where you

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<v Speaker 1>ask smart persons and do fee questions.

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<v Speaker 2>Often it's more about changing our mindset, which incorporates a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of the things you mentioned. You know, it's about

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<v Speaker 2>changing the way we see the world, changing the way

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<v Speaker 2>we see our circumstances, changing the extent to which we're

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<v Speaker 2>present with our circumstances and our emotions. And it's also

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<v Speaker 2>you know, tapping into things that give us meaning in life,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, giving us us a sense of purpose. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>so all of those things seem to matter a lot

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<v Speaker 2>more than what our salary level is or for my students,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, the last grade they got on their midterm

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<v Speaker 2>and things like that.

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<v Speaker 1>Backing up a little bit, what is happiness? How do

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<v Speaker 1>you even define it?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah? Tricky? I mean we could take you know, many

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<v Speaker 2>many podcasts episodes up, you know, fighting over a definition

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<v Speaker 2>of happiness. You know, social scientists tend to try to

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<v Speaker 2>be simpler than philosophers, so they go for a definition

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<v Speaker 2>of happiness. It's pretty easy to measure, and so most

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<v Speaker 2>social scientists think about happiness as sort of being happy

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<v Speaker 2>in your life and with your life. And so, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>being happy in your life is just having lots of

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<v Speaker 2>positive emotions, right, you know, like you have experienced joy

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<v Speaker 2>and laughter and fun and less often things like sadness

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<v Speaker 2>and anger. Not that those aren't there at all, right,

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<v Speaker 2>because a full and complete life includes some negative emotions,

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<v Speaker 2>but you know, the ratio is pretty good. That's sort

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<v Speaker 2>of being happy in your life. Being happy with your life?

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<v Speaker 2>Is that meaning that sense of purpose? It's the answer

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<v Speaker 2>to the question, all things considered, how satisfied am I

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<v Speaker 2>with my life? And those two constructs are ones that

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<v Speaker 2>scientists measure separately, and it's worth noting that they do

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<v Speaker 2>sometimes dissociate, you know that. I think if you go

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<v Speaker 2>on Instagram, there are a lot of people who are

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<v Speaker 2>happy in their life. They're aiding these hedonistic meals on

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<v Speaker 2>some plane somewhere. But if you know, if you look

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<v Speaker 2>at how they're feeling with their life, I bet they're

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<v Speaker 2>feeling pretty empty. And you can also have cases of

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<v Speaker 2>the opposite. My Dean who I live with here in

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<v Speaker 2>the college. You know, she and her wife recently just

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<v Speaker 2>had a base and newborn baby. You know, you're really

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<v Speaker 2>happy with your life. Oh my god, this rich sense

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<v Speaker 2>of meaning being a mom. But in your life dirty

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<v Speaker 2>diapers and not sleeping, and so they can dissociate. But

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<v Speaker 2>best case scenario is that you're feeling pretty high on

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<v Speaker 2>both of those.

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<v Speaker 1>So I'm gonna pause us for a second just to ponder,

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<v Speaker 1>how do you feel in your life? How are your

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<v Speaker 1>days to days? Maybe some nice tea in the morning,

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<v Speaker 1>some supportive coworkers, maybe some evening knitting or a walk

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<v Speaker 1>with a friend, or do you hate your coffee maker?

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<v Speaker 1>And you don't know why you started rewatching the Big

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<v Speaker 1>Bang theory for episode one. You're tired, go to bed. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>what about with your life? Do you feel a sense

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<v Speaker 1>of purpose? Are you proud of your life? Do you

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<v Speaker 1>feel authentic? Just think about it for a second. It's

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<v Speaker 1>totally okay if you're like some of U's good, some

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<v Speaker 1>of it sucks eggs or I'm very fortunate. Why am

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<v Speaker 1>I such a grumpy walrus?

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<v Speaker 2>And there are lots of different hacks that we can

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<v Speaker 2>do to improve both of those constructs.

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<v Speaker 1>In terms of emotions themselves. Is happiness and umbrella lah

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<v Speaker 1>for things like joy and relief and satisfaction and contentment?

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<v Speaker 1>Or are those all individual separate emotions?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean it kind of depends. I think, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>we we and sometimes scientists, philosophers, you know, all of us.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, we can get really kind of tied up

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<v Speaker 2>on the specifics, right, you know, is joy a subcomponent

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<v Speaker 2>of happiness or is it bigger than happiness? What about

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<v Speaker 2>contentment and things like that. I'm more of the opinion

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<v Speaker 2>of you kind of know them when you see them, right,

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<v Speaker 2>you know. I want a construct that's easy enough that

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<v Speaker 2>if I give people some sort of self report measure

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<v Speaker 2>that they can tell me about it. But beyond that,

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<v Speaker 2>I don't want to get into a big fight about well,

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<v Speaker 2>is it joy, is it contentment? Is it forty five

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<v Speaker 2>percent or is it fifty per You know, I think

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<v Speaker 2>you kind of know it when you see it, But

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<v Speaker 2>but we could probably dig in. I mean, there's nuance there,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, the kind of calm contentment feels different than

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<v Speaker 2>a kind of manic, excited happiness than you know, a

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<v Speaker 2>deep sense of joy. You know, these these are different constructs,

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<v Speaker 2>And maybe importantly so, but overall, what we're going for

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<v Speaker 2>is as many of those as possible.

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<v Speaker 1>And what about you in particular? I know that you

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<v Speaker 1>said you can read the studies and understand and know,

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<v Speaker 1>but sometimes it's it's hard to do. You know, how

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<v Speaker 1>has your life changed since you switched a little bit

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<v Speaker 1>of your career focus on this.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well, it's definitely, like, statistically speaking, made me much happier.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, I'm a nerd, right, So I take these

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<v Speaker 2>surveys myself about you know, how satisfied are you with

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<v Speaker 2>your life on a scale of one to ten and

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<v Speaker 2>stuff like that, and you on most ten point scales

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<v Speaker 2>of both kind of happiness in my life and happiness

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<v Speaker 2>with my life. I've gone up at least a point

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<v Speaker 2>since focusing on this stuff. But it's not like magic, right,

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<v Speaker 2>it's in part just because I'm I'm doing the things

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<v Speaker 2>that I keep telling my students to do. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm practicing gratitude, I'm improving my social connection, I'm meditating more,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm exercising like, I'm doing all this stuff in a

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<v Speaker 2>big list of Hey, if you do these things scientifically,

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<v Speaker 2>seems like you'll feel better. And now doing those and

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<v Speaker 2>I'm feeling better, so it kind of makes sense. There's

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<v Speaker 2>also something wonderful about being the happiness professor because you know,

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<v Speaker 2>I have a whole host of students and podcast listeners who,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, if I'm not doing the right thing, will

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<v Speaker 2>probably call me out.

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<v Speaker 1>You know.

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<v Speaker 2>You know my students, you know, oh has it gone?

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<v Speaker 2>Like oh, I'm so frustrated. You know, it's such a

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<v Speaker 2>and they're like, oh, you know, but my students call

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<v Speaker 2>me head of College Santo's. So it's Hak Santo's. It's

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<v Speaker 2>what it's abbreviated. You to be like Hawk Santo's. Are

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<v Speaker 2>you supposed to be practicing gratitude?

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<v Speaker 1>You know?

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<v Speaker 2>It's like, okay, yes, you're right. You know, so I

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<v Speaker 2>will get called out if I'm not practicing this stuff.

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<v Speaker 1>Do you feel like your friends come to you for

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<v Speaker 1>more pep talks or fewer because they just look at

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<v Speaker 1>your published work instead.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah? You know, I think my friends are my friends, right,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, they don't necessarily see me as a happiness expert,

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<v Speaker 2>you have anything. I think the happiness expert thing can

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<v Speaker 2>become a little bit you know, annoying at times of like, well,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, I have a podcast on that you know,

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<v Speaker 2>it's like, no, they just want me to be their friend. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>and so try to separate the two a little bit.

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<v Speaker 1>Shit, Am I not supposed to talk about podcast episodes

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<v Speaker 1>with my friends? Because I've told a lot of people

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<v Speaker 1>about wildfires and how lizards have two dogs? Let's change

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<v Speaker 1>the subject. Well, let's get into some of those factors,

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<v Speaker 1>because I know that you rattle them off, and it's

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of things that we feel like we know,

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<v Speaker 1>but we don't necessarily know. Why are the mechanisms of

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<v Speaker 1>how that works? You know, exercise, practicing, gratitude. Can you

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<v Speaker 1>run me down those things and in a nutshell tell

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<v Speaker 1>me why do they work?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah? I mean, you know, there's different kinds of categories

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<v Speaker 2>of them, you know, one whole set of categories, or

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<v Speaker 2>there's a whole host of things that make us happier

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<v Speaker 2>that are about connecting with other people. Right, literally being

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<v Speaker 2>around other people is considered a necessary condition for high

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<v Speaker 2>happiness and a lot of studies and that's true even

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<v Speaker 2>for introverts. So just literally connecting with and being around

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<v Speaker 2>other people super useful for happiness. But another way that

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<v Speaker 2>you connect with other people is to focus on what

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<v Speaker 2>makes them happy. Lots of evidence that doing random acts

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<v Speaker 2>of kindness, spending money and time on other people, that

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<v Speaker 2>makes us feel happier. And in some cases, especially with

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<v Speaker 2>spend money, you're happier spending money on others than you

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<v Speaker 2>even are spending on yourself, you know. So this, this

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<v Speaker 2>attitude of social connection and doing for others, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>a powerful set of practices to make us feel happier.

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<v Speaker 2>Another set of practices really has to do with our mindset.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, do we have a mindset of kind of

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<v Speaker 2>griping and complaining or are we focused on things we're

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<v Speaker 2>grateful for? You know? Are we paying attention to the

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<v Speaker 2>negative things in life or are we focused on delights?

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<v Speaker 2>Are we present enough to savor some of the good

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<v Speaker 2>things and just you know, present in general to notice

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<v Speaker 2>our emotions and notice things. There's evidence suggesting that a

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<v Speaker 2>wandering mind is an unhappy mind. So just the act

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<v Speaker 2>of a mindset of being present can be really powerful

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<v Speaker 2>for happiness.

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<v Speaker 1>So for more on a daily practice of looking for

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<v Speaker 1>things that aren't the fucking worst, I linked the awesomology

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<v Speaker 1>episode in the show notes. Also learning this next term

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<v Speaker 1>killed me. I'm dead, I'm a fucus now.

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<v Speaker 2>And then there's just a whole host of things that

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<v Speaker 2>I think we kind of know are good for our

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<v Speaker 2>physical health, but we forget can be so important for

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<v Speaker 2>our mental health. You know, things like taking time to exercise,

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<v Speaker 2>taking time to sleep, which is a huge one, and

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<v Speaker 2>just having like some time off. There's lots of evidence

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<v Speaker 2>that something called time affluence, the subjective sense that you

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<v Speaker 2>have some free time, is much more critical for happiness

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<v Speaker 2>we than we realize. And so, you know, all of

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<v Speaker 2>those things as I say them, you know, we can

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<v Speaker 2>go through the scientific studies and so on, and you know,

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<v Speaker 2>your listeners might be thinking like, well, I kind of

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<v Speaker 2>know that. And what I like to say is it's

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<v Speaker 2>you know, it's common wisdom, but it's not common practice.

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<v Speaker 2>You know how many of those things that I just

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<v Speaker 2>rattled off aren't things that you're doing right now? You

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<v Speaker 2>know that. And then that's why I think it's really

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<v Speaker 2>critical to know the science, because as you hear the

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<v Speaker 2>science of say, nutrition, you think like, oh, maybe I

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<v Speaker 2>should eat healthier. I think as you hear the science

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<v Speaker 2>of how things like social connection and exercise work, you

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<v Speaker 2>start thinking, oh, maybe those are things I really do

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<v Speaker 2>need to get in more of. You know, I kind

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<v Speaker 2>of knew it, but now that I see the evidence,

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<v Speaker 2>this does seem really important.

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<v Speaker 1>So connecting with people talking face to face is better

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<v Speaker 1>for us than just text. The phone works too, FaceTime

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<v Speaker 1>is even better than the phone. Also helping others when

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<v Speaker 1>you can looking for lovely shiny things amid the compost

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<v Speaker 1>pile that can feel like life. Also sleep and exercise.

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<v Speaker 1>It can be immediate or like exercise, it can be

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<v Speaker 1>a few weeks before these habits really take root and

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<v Speaker 1>you start to feel better. So don't give up. Give

419
00:20:22.680 --> 00:20:25.160
<v Speaker 1>it a few weeks, especially since it's free. Are you

420
00:20:25.200 --> 00:20:27.960
<v Speaker 1>feeling lazy and annoyed? Don't worry. A lot of us

421
00:20:27.960 --> 00:20:29.920
<v Speaker 1>feel that way when we start doing something that will

422
00:20:30.000 --> 00:20:33.200
<v Speaker 1>keep us alive and happy. So I asked doctor Santos

423
00:20:33.400 --> 00:20:36.359
<v Speaker 1>for us, Why am I like this? Why do you

424
00:20:36.519 --> 00:20:40.960
<v Speaker 1>think from some sort of evolutionary standpoint, when we're bummed out,

425
00:20:41.359 --> 00:20:43.960
<v Speaker 1>it's harder to do the things that would make us

426
00:20:44.000 --> 00:20:45.200
<v Speaker 1>less bummed out.

427
00:20:45.720 --> 00:20:48.359
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, super frustrating, Like the mind is designed in like

428
00:20:48.400 --> 00:20:51.240
<v Speaker 2>a really stupid way. You know, we know this, you

429
00:20:51.279 --> 00:20:54.440
<v Speaker 2>know from other evolutionary studies, But definitely when it comes

430
00:20:54.720 --> 00:20:57.759
<v Speaker 2>when it comes to happiness, that's the case. In one

431
00:20:57.839 --> 00:21:01.279
<v Speaker 2>of my upcoming episod SO is of the Happiness Lab.

432
00:21:01.880 --> 00:21:04.519
<v Speaker 2>I talk about this really stupid design feature of the

433
00:21:04.559 --> 00:21:08.279
<v Speaker 2>brain where there's just a different, like a whole different

434
00:21:08.359 --> 00:21:11.400
<v Speaker 2>brain system that codes for what we like, you know,

435
00:21:11.440 --> 00:21:14.279
<v Speaker 2>so the things we really enjoy versus the things that

436
00:21:14.319 --> 00:21:17.039
<v Speaker 2>we want, the things that we're motivated to go after

437
00:21:17.160 --> 00:21:19.960
<v Speaker 2>or that we crave. The simplest example is like, you know,

438
00:21:20.000 --> 00:21:22.160
<v Speaker 2>sometimes when I'm having a bad day at work, I

439
00:21:22.319 --> 00:21:25.759
<v Speaker 2>just like crave like plopping down and watching Netflix, or

440
00:21:25.759 --> 00:21:28.279
<v Speaker 2>like eating a cupcake or having like a huge glass

441
00:21:28.319 --> 00:21:31.240
<v Speaker 2>of wine. But like, if you actually look at how

442
00:21:31.319 --> 00:21:33.559
<v Speaker 2>much I would like that, the Netflix is going to

443
00:21:33.599 --> 00:21:36.160
<v Speaker 2>make me apathetic, and the cupcake is going to give

444
00:21:36.200 --> 00:21:37.839
<v Speaker 2>me the jitters and the wine, I'm not going to

445
00:21:37.920 --> 00:21:41.680
<v Speaker 2>sleep very well. Like ultimately, the liking has this disconnect

446
00:21:41.720 --> 00:21:44.200
<v Speaker 2>from the wanting, and you get it in the reverse

447
00:21:44.240 --> 00:21:47.000
<v Speaker 2>direction too, Like I don't after a long day at

448
00:21:47.039 --> 00:21:51.799
<v Speaker 2>work crave a really hard peloton ride or like you know,

449
00:21:51.880 --> 00:21:54.599
<v Speaker 2>like a really hard yoga class, or like taking a

450
00:21:54.640 --> 00:21:56.400
<v Speaker 2>long walk with a friend. I don't. I don't have

451
00:21:56.480 --> 00:21:59.039
<v Speaker 2>like the same motivation I have for that that I

452
00:21:59.119 --> 00:22:01.559
<v Speaker 2>do for like the cup cake or the loring relaxing

453
00:22:01.599 --> 00:22:04.880
<v Speaker 2>thing or a hit of social media. But even though

454
00:22:04.920 --> 00:22:07.920
<v Speaker 2>I don't have the wanting, if I actually engage in

455
00:22:07.960 --> 00:22:11.920
<v Speaker 2>that practice, I'll feel so much better. And so this

456
00:22:11.960 --> 00:22:14.000
<v Speaker 2>is a dumb way to design a brain when you

457
00:22:14.039 --> 00:22:16.799
<v Speaker 2>think that wanting would kind of go with liking, but

458
00:22:17.039 --> 00:22:19.720
<v Speaker 2>it just sort of doesn't. And that means we spend

459
00:22:19.759 --> 00:22:22.880
<v Speaker 2>a lot of time craving and easily going after things

460
00:22:23.279 --> 00:22:25.359
<v Speaker 2>we won't really like. And it means we don't have

461
00:22:25.440 --> 00:22:28.720
<v Speaker 2>mechanisms except very kind of rational, you know, push ourselves.

462
00:22:28.759 --> 00:22:31.640
<v Speaker 2>We don't have these kind of low grade craving mechanisms

463
00:22:32.000 --> 00:22:34.559
<v Speaker 2>to go after things that really will benefit our happiness

464
00:22:34.559 --> 00:22:36.359
<v Speaker 2>but we don't realize we want them.

465
00:22:36.720 --> 00:22:39.759
<v Speaker 1>How do we hijack that? Like, how do we trick

466
00:22:39.799 --> 00:22:42.440
<v Speaker 1>ourselves into doing the thing that we don't think that

467
00:22:42.599 --> 00:22:44.720
<v Speaker 1>we want to do but we like doing it is

468
00:22:44.720 --> 00:22:45.240
<v Speaker 1>good for us?

469
00:22:45.880 --> 00:22:47.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well there's you know, there's two ways to do it.

470
00:22:48.000 --> 00:22:51.039
<v Speaker 2>You know. One is this very rational force yourself way,

471
00:22:51.039 --> 00:22:53.799
<v Speaker 2>which which I harness a lot, which is like, Okay,

472
00:22:53.960 --> 00:22:56.319
<v Speaker 2>even though I don't really feel like calling anyone right now,

473
00:22:56.359 --> 00:22:57.920
<v Speaker 2>I know the science and if I talk to someone,

474
00:22:57.960 --> 00:22:59.880
<v Speaker 2>I'll feel better, right you know, So kind of the

475
00:23:00.079 --> 00:23:03.480
<v Speaker 2>force yourself approach, right, but the force yourself approach works

476
00:23:03.519 --> 00:23:05.839
<v Speaker 2>best if it's paired with the second practice, which is

477
00:23:06.640 --> 00:23:09.519
<v Speaker 2>forcing yourself to notice what you like. Because the wanting

478
00:23:09.599 --> 00:23:13.000
<v Speaker 2>system can update, it just doesn't do it naturally. But

479
00:23:13.319 --> 00:23:16.160
<v Speaker 2>after a really hard yoga class or after calling that

480
00:23:16.240 --> 00:23:19.119
<v Speaker 2>friend when you didn't feel like it, take time to notice,

481
00:23:19.200 --> 00:23:21.720
<v Speaker 2>like does this feel good? And you're like, yeah, this,

482
00:23:21.839 --> 00:23:24.519
<v Speaker 2>actually this actually feels nice. I had this, you know,

483
00:23:24.599 --> 00:23:26.799
<v Speaker 2>pre COVID when I was going to a yoga studio.

484
00:23:26.839 --> 00:23:29.559
<v Speaker 2>This wonderful yoga instructor right at the end of a

485
00:23:29.559 --> 00:23:32.079
<v Speaker 2>hard class would have you take this moment. We're like, okay,

486
00:23:32.119 --> 00:23:34.759
<v Speaker 2>now take a moment to notice. Notice how you feel

487
00:23:34.759 --> 00:23:37.119
<v Speaker 2>after this class, Like notice how this made you feel?

488
00:23:37.319 --> 00:23:39.720
<v Speaker 2>And after you're like, damn, that was great, Like I

489
00:23:39.759 --> 00:23:41.039
<v Speaker 2>want more of this feeling. You know.

490
00:23:41.400 --> 00:23:44.279
<v Speaker 1>So when you pick the salad and stop pretending that

491
00:23:44.359 --> 00:23:47.319
<v Speaker 1>diet coke is water and you go for the slowest,

492
00:23:47.640 --> 00:23:50.400
<v Speaker 1>sweatiest shuffle around the block, but you do it, take

493
00:23:50.400 --> 00:23:53.880
<v Speaker 1>a minute and absolutely relish how wonderful and brave and

494
00:23:53.960 --> 00:23:56.039
<v Speaker 1>heroic your efforts were and how you feel.

495
00:23:56.200 --> 00:23:59.319
<v Speaker 2>We deserve this, but we tend not to be present.

496
00:23:59.359 --> 00:24:01.839
<v Speaker 2>We tend not to mindfully notice. And that's true for

497
00:24:01.880 --> 00:24:04.319
<v Speaker 2>this stuff you really crave, but you might not like

498
00:24:04.599 --> 00:24:06.960
<v Speaker 2>after you, like you open the fridge four times and

499
00:24:07.000 --> 00:24:08.880
<v Speaker 2>grab that thing to eat that you didn't really feel like,

500
00:24:09.000 --> 00:24:11.160
<v Speaker 2>take a moment to be like, am I satisfied? Now?

501
00:24:11.680 --> 00:24:14.559
<v Speaker 2>Not really? You might want to grab something else, And

502
00:24:14.799 --> 00:24:17.799
<v Speaker 2>once you notice that, your wanting system can be like okay,

503
00:24:18.039 --> 00:24:20.920
<v Speaker 2>kind of duly noted, got it, got it, Let's take

504
00:24:20.960 --> 00:24:23.440
<v Speaker 2>note of that for next time. So kind of forcing

505
00:24:23.480 --> 00:24:26.559
<v Speaker 2>yourself to ignore your wanting system and just act through

506
00:24:26.559 --> 00:24:31.119
<v Speaker 2>this very rational path, but then also mindfully noticing what

507
00:24:31.160 --> 00:24:34.079
<v Speaker 2>you really like. Those things can start to update your

508
00:24:34.119 --> 00:24:36.519
<v Speaker 2>craving system at least a little bit. But the systems

509
00:24:36.519 --> 00:24:39.720
<v Speaker 2>are always going to be disconnected, unfortunately. It's just our

510
00:24:39.759 --> 00:24:42.880
<v Speaker 2>minds are not really designed that well for wanting all

511
00:24:42.880 --> 00:24:43.640
<v Speaker 2>the things that we like.

512
00:24:45.119 --> 00:24:47.839
<v Speaker 1>What about like our self image? How much does that

513
00:24:47.880 --> 00:24:51.759
<v Speaker 1>play into our happiness? And how much does monitoring our

514
00:24:52.480 --> 00:24:55.039
<v Speaker 1>likes and our social media and you know, looking at

515
00:24:55.119 --> 00:24:58.119
<v Speaker 1>pictures of our face through a distorted camera lens, how

516
00:24:58.200 --> 00:25:00.559
<v Speaker 1>much is that affecting our happiness and how we see

517
00:25:00.559 --> 00:25:01.000
<v Speaker 1>our lives?

518
00:25:01.960 --> 00:25:04.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah? Well, one another dumb feature of the way our

519
00:25:04.960 --> 00:25:07.039
<v Speaker 2>minds work when it comes to happiness is the fact

520
00:25:07.440 --> 00:25:10.680
<v Speaker 2>that we don't necessarily think of the good things are

521
00:25:10.839 --> 00:25:12.920
<v Speaker 2>in our life in objective terms. We think of them

522
00:25:12.960 --> 00:25:16.359
<v Speaker 2>in relative terms. And that means that seeing ourselves on

523
00:25:16.400 --> 00:25:18.640
<v Speaker 2>social media, seeing what's going on with other people on

524
00:25:18.680 --> 00:25:22.039
<v Speaker 2>social media, that can really affect our happiness in some

525
00:25:22.200 --> 00:25:24.920
<v Speaker 2>dumb ways. But take your body image for example, right,

526
00:25:24.960 --> 00:25:27.160
<v Speaker 2>you know, you might objectively think you have a certain

527
00:25:27.240 --> 00:25:29.359
<v Speaker 2>you know body that's good or not so good or whatever.

528
00:25:29.839 --> 00:25:33.160
<v Speaker 2>But we don't necessarily think in terms of our objective sense.

529
00:25:33.240 --> 00:25:35.119
<v Speaker 2>We think relative. And so as soon as you go

530
00:25:35.160 --> 00:25:37.559
<v Speaker 2>on Instagram and you look at, you know, the bikini

531
00:25:37.599 --> 00:25:40.559
<v Speaker 2>pictures of someone else, or take your objective sense of

532
00:25:40.599 --> 00:25:42.480
<v Speaker 2>how good your vacation was or how rich you were,

533
00:25:42.559 --> 00:25:45.240
<v Speaker 2>how nice your house is, then you know, you watch

534
00:25:45.279 --> 00:25:48.160
<v Speaker 2>the celebrity you know, TikTok feeds and you're like, oh, like,

535
00:25:48.319 --> 00:25:50.720
<v Speaker 2>my house isn't that good or my vacation sucked and

536
00:25:50.759 --> 00:25:54.599
<v Speaker 2>things like that. We're really susceptible to social comparison when

537
00:25:54.599 --> 00:25:57.519
<v Speaker 2>it comes to evaluating anything in our life our abilities,

538
00:25:58.200 --> 00:26:00.480
<v Speaker 2>our amount of money, our salary or a house whatever.

539
00:26:01.039 --> 00:26:04.480
<v Speaker 2>And that means that we can easily start feeling bad

540
00:26:04.880 --> 00:26:08.279
<v Speaker 2>even when we're in objectively a good situation. My favorite

541
00:26:08.319 --> 00:26:11.160
<v Speaker 2>extreme example of this was a study that looked at

542
00:26:11.200 --> 00:26:16.039
<v Speaker 2>the emotions of different Olympic medalists. So probably gold medalists

543
00:26:16.160 --> 00:26:18.640
<v Speaker 2>probably feeling pretty happy, like, you know, makes sense, they

544
00:26:18.640 --> 00:26:21.599
<v Speaker 2>just want a gold medal, Yeah, But what about silver medalists,

545
00:26:21.680 --> 00:26:24.680
<v Speaker 2>you know, maybe slightly less happy. But what researchers find

546
00:26:24.720 --> 00:26:26.759
<v Speaker 2>is that if you look at the emotional expressions this

547
00:26:26.880 --> 00:26:28.799
<v Speaker 2>silver medalists show on the stand.

548
00:26:32.519 --> 00:26:34.240
<v Speaker 1>Auxana Bayoul has won the gold.

549
00:26:34.279 --> 00:26:39.680
<v Speaker 2>In backstage, Nancy Kerrigan and Shann lu exchange congratulations and

550
00:26:39.920 --> 00:26:44.960
<v Speaker 2>consolations for silver and broad, they're not just slightly less happy,

551
00:26:45.119 --> 00:26:50.720
<v Speaker 2>They're actively feeling awful. They're showing signs of extreme sadness, contempt, anger.

552
00:26:51.400 --> 00:26:54.839
<v Speaker 2>Like it's not just like slightly less happy, it's actively negative.

553
00:26:55.359 --> 00:26:55.720
<v Speaker 1>Wow.

554
00:26:56.240 --> 00:26:57.640
<v Speaker 2>If you think about what I just said, it it

555
00:26:57.759 --> 00:27:00.799
<v Speaker 2>sort of makes sense, right, because the silver isn't thinking

556
00:27:00.880 --> 00:27:03.359
<v Speaker 2>I'm objectively the second best in the world, I objectively

557
00:27:03.400 --> 00:27:08.079
<v Speaker 2>beat like the other seven billion people like whatever. They're

558
00:27:08.119 --> 00:27:10.799
<v Speaker 2>just thinking about one reference point that makes them feel awful,

559
00:27:10.839 --> 00:27:13.079
<v Speaker 2>the gold. They were almost there and they didn't get it.

560
00:27:13.079 --> 00:27:15.680
<v Speaker 2>So they feel like a loser. But what's striking is

561
00:27:15.680 --> 00:27:18.200
<v Speaker 2>if you look at the bronze medalist, you see something

562
00:27:18.200 --> 00:27:22.039
<v Speaker 2>completely different because their reference point isn't the gold right,

563
00:27:22.079 --> 00:27:23.720
<v Speaker 2>like they were I don't know, like you know, thirty

564
00:27:23.880 --> 00:27:26.519
<v Speaker 2>seconds off, or they like lost two matches or something.

565
00:27:27.039 --> 00:27:29.319
<v Speaker 2>Their reference point is like, if I just messed up

566
00:27:29.359 --> 00:27:32.599
<v Speaker 2>a little bit more, I would go home completely empty handed, right,

567
00:27:32.599 --> 00:27:34.599
<v Speaker 2>Like I wouldn't even be on the stand at all. Right,

568
00:27:35.079 --> 00:27:38.039
<v Speaker 2>And so they're showing signs of true ecstasy. In some cases,

569
00:27:38.079 --> 00:27:40.599
<v Speaker 2>they're showing expressions that are even happier than the gold

570
00:27:40.640 --> 00:27:43.839
<v Speaker 2>medalist because their reference point is like, whew, look how

571
00:27:43.920 --> 00:27:46.440
<v Speaker 2>lucky I am, Like I'd almost totally screwed up.

572
00:27:46.799 --> 00:27:50.880
<v Speaker 1>So Nancy Kerrigan displayed a famously sour face receiving the

573
00:27:50.960 --> 00:27:54.440
<v Speaker 1>silver in nineteen ninety four, and then in nineteen ninety five,

574
00:27:54.960 --> 00:27:57.240
<v Speaker 1>a study was published in the Journal of Personal and

575
00:27:57.279 --> 00:28:01.519
<v Speaker 1>Social Psychology title quote, when less is more counterfactual thinking

576
00:28:01.680 --> 00:28:07.599
<v Speaker 1>and satisfaction among Olympic medalists. Counterfactual thinking, huh, that is

577
00:28:07.960 --> 00:28:11.640
<v Speaker 1>the sinking, gnawing feeling of what could have been or wow,

578
00:28:11.799 --> 00:28:15.400
<v Speaker 1>A fudged it up. So one researcher doctor Andrea Lewangrath,

579
00:28:15.599 --> 00:28:19.279
<v Speaker 1>a University of Iowa marketing assistant professor, did follow up

580
00:28:19.279 --> 00:28:23.000
<v Speaker 1>studies on metalists to confirm that first study, and recently

581
00:28:23.000 --> 00:28:25.519
<v Speaker 1>said in an interview that you don't have to be

582
00:28:25.559 --> 00:28:28.200
<v Speaker 1>the second best out of eight billion. There are always

583
00:28:28.200 --> 00:28:30.799
<v Speaker 1>going to be people who we can compare ourselves to

584
00:28:31.000 --> 00:28:34.680
<v Speaker 1>that are better, faster, smarter, or whatever, and that can

585
00:28:34.720 --> 00:28:37.920
<v Speaker 1>make us feel relatively bad. So what is the lesson here?

586
00:28:38.920 --> 00:28:42.079
<v Speaker 1>Think twice before you get a no regrets tattoo and

587
00:28:42.160 --> 00:28:47.359
<v Speaker 1>maybe consider a counter your counterfactuals tattoo instead, And once

588
00:28:47.400 --> 00:28:50.759
<v Speaker 1>the sting wears off, celebrate your silvers. You did it.

589
00:28:51.279 --> 00:28:54.359
<v Speaker 2>And I love this metaphor because you know, it shows

590
00:28:54.440 --> 00:28:57.359
<v Speaker 2>us that it doesn't matter what's going on objectively, it

591
00:28:57.400 --> 00:29:01.079
<v Speaker 2>matters who we're comparing ourself against. That means sometimes we

592
00:29:01.079 --> 00:29:03.839
<v Speaker 2>can be an objectively a really good spot but feel

593
00:29:03.920 --> 00:29:04.920
<v Speaker 2>kind of awful about it.

594
00:29:05.119 --> 00:29:09.720
<v Speaker 1>And what about chemicals? Where are just the chemical hands

595
00:29:09.720 --> 00:29:13.319
<v Speaker 1>that we were adult? When do those have the reins

596
00:29:13.359 --> 00:29:15.359
<v Speaker 1>on the amount of happiness we feel?

597
00:29:16.400 --> 00:29:18.400
<v Speaker 2>So, you know, we could think about the chemicals we're

598
00:29:18.440 --> 00:29:20.200
<v Speaker 2>dealt in a couple ways. Often we think about it

599
00:29:20.200 --> 00:29:22.799
<v Speaker 2>in terms of, you know, our kind of genetic lottery,

600
00:29:22.880 --> 00:29:25.480
<v Speaker 2>right you are you naturally a happy person or you

601
00:29:25.559 --> 00:29:27.920
<v Speaker 2>naturally a kind of down in the dumbst person, And

602
00:29:28.119 --> 00:29:31.240
<v Speaker 2>just like circumstances, what we find is that there is

603
00:29:31.319 --> 00:29:33.759
<v Speaker 2>a genetic component to happiness, you know. So there, you know,

604
00:29:33.799 --> 00:29:37.160
<v Speaker 2>if you're born from a long line of overly optimistic people,

605
00:29:37.200 --> 00:29:39.799
<v Speaker 2>you're more likely to be overly optimistic. But the amount

606
00:29:39.880 --> 00:29:44.000
<v Speaker 2>of that heritability is tiny. What you know, it's probably

607
00:29:44.079 --> 00:29:46.880
<v Speaker 2>tinier than something like height or weight in the US,

608
00:29:46.920 --> 00:29:49.000
<v Speaker 2>and especially with like weight, we know that that's something

609
00:29:49.000 --> 00:29:52.920
<v Speaker 2>that obviously your environment can shape a lot. And so there,

610
00:29:52.920 --> 00:29:56.200
<v Speaker 2>while there is some heritable component to happiness, it's much

611
00:29:56.240 --> 00:29:58.599
<v Speaker 2>tinier than we think. And this is really good news, right.

612
00:29:58.640 --> 00:29:59.880
<v Speaker 2>You know, it would suck if you're like, hey, you're

613
00:29:59.880 --> 00:30:01.559
<v Speaker 2>just born to be happy or born to be not

614
00:30:01.599 --> 00:30:04.160
<v Speaker 2>so happy, and that's it. What the science is really

615
00:30:04.200 --> 00:30:07.400
<v Speaker 2>telling us is that there's some heritable component, but there's

616
00:30:07.480 --> 00:30:10.279
<v Speaker 2>a lot of action that we can take through our mindsets,

617
00:30:10.319 --> 00:30:13.319
<v Speaker 2>through our behaviors to change things around. And that's great

618
00:30:13.359 --> 00:30:15.599
<v Speaker 2>because you know, putting this all together, it means our

619
00:30:16.039 --> 00:30:19.759
<v Speaker 2>genetics don't predict our happiness that much, and our circumstances

620
00:30:19.799 --> 00:30:21.960
<v Speaker 2>don't predict our happiness that much like we don't, you know,

621
00:30:22.039 --> 00:30:25.319
<v Speaker 2>necessarily get to control whether we're born into you know,

622
00:30:26.079 --> 00:30:28.960
<v Speaker 2>complete luxury or born into poverty. We don't necessarily get

623
00:30:29.000 --> 00:30:32.160
<v Speaker 2>to control what our genetic heritage is. But we all

624
00:30:32.200 --> 00:30:35.680
<v Speaker 2>can completely control our mindsets and our behavior. So it's

625
00:30:35.720 --> 00:30:38.599
<v Speaker 2>good news. The bad news is that changing those mindsets

626
00:30:38.640 --> 00:30:41.039
<v Speaker 2>and behavior, as you probably guess, takes a lot of work.

627
00:30:41.359 --> 00:30:44.400
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Do you ever have students who either come to

628
00:30:44.440 --> 00:30:48.480
<v Speaker 1>you or who you hear about who aren't quite sure

629
00:30:48.519 --> 00:30:51.559
<v Speaker 1>if it's time for medical intervention or is it time

630
00:30:51.559 --> 00:30:55.279
<v Speaker 1>for just trying to hack their habits? How do we

631
00:30:55.359 --> 00:30:58.119
<v Speaker 1>as individuals make that call?

632
00:30:59.200 --> 00:31:00.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah? And I think you brought this up because I

633
00:31:00.960 --> 00:31:03.039
<v Speaker 2>think this is really important. You know, so many of

634
00:31:03.039 --> 00:31:05.839
<v Speaker 2>the hacks you know, we are talking about today are

635
00:31:05.880 --> 00:31:09.039
<v Speaker 2>ones that really can improve your well being. But you know,

636
00:31:09.079 --> 00:31:11.079
<v Speaker 2>there's some points when you needed a hack, and there's

637
00:31:11.119 --> 00:31:13.279
<v Speaker 2>some points where you you know, need something you know

638
00:31:13.319 --> 00:31:15.680
<v Speaker 2>that's much deeper. And the analogy like to use is,

639
00:31:15.680 --> 00:31:17.640
<v Speaker 2>you know, imagine you go into your doctor and you say, hey, doctor,

640
00:31:17.640 --> 00:31:19.400
<v Speaker 2>I have high blood pressure. You know what should I do?

641
00:31:19.480 --> 00:31:21.400
<v Speaker 2>Your doctor might say, hey, you know, get on the

642
00:31:21.440 --> 00:31:23.519
<v Speaker 2>treadmill and exercise a little bit more, you know, eat,

643
00:31:23.599 --> 00:31:25.640
<v Speaker 2>you know here, eat these fruits and vegetables every day

644
00:31:25.680 --> 00:31:27.960
<v Speaker 2>or something. But if you walked into your doctor's office

645
00:31:28.000 --> 00:31:29.839
<v Speaker 2>and you're saying, doctor, you know, I'm having chest pains,

646
00:31:29.839 --> 00:31:32.480
<v Speaker 2>I'm having a cute cardiac arrest right now, your doctor

647
00:31:32.480 --> 00:31:34.079
<v Speaker 2>wouldn't be like, well, get on the treadmill, you know,

648
00:31:34.240 --> 00:31:36.440
<v Speaker 2>like for half hour day, like your doctor would. You know,

649
00:31:36.880 --> 00:31:39.920
<v Speaker 2>an emergency intervention would take place. And I think it's

650
00:31:40.000 --> 00:31:42.759
<v Speaker 2>worth recognizing that our mental health works the same way.

651
00:31:42.799 --> 00:31:45.240
<v Speaker 2>The kinds of things I'm talking about are in some

652
00:31:45.279 --> 00:31:48.160
<v Speaker 2>sense preventative medicine. You know, they're there so that you

653
00:31:48.200 --> 00:31:50.960
<v Speaker 2>don't wind up in a state of kind of acutely

654
00:31:51.000 --> 00:31:54.880
<v Speaker 2>feeling clinically depressed or suicidal or something worse. Right, you know,

655
00:31:54.960 --> 00:31:57.319
<v Speaker 2>you they're there so that you can protect your mental

656
00:31:57.319 --> 00:31:59.359
<v Speaker 2>health so you don't get to that point. But if

657
00:31:59.400 --> 00:32:02.319
<v Speaker 2>you're experience and saying true depression, you know, hard for

658
00:32:02.400 --> 00:32:05.720
<v Speaker 2>you to do your daily activities, or anxiety so powerful

659
00:32:05.720 --> 00:32:08.079
<v Speaker 2>that you're experiencing panic attacks, that's a sign that you

660
00:32:08.200 --> 00:32:11.160
<v Speaker 2>might need professional help. All the hacks I mentioned are good,

661
00:32:11.519 --> 00:32:13.200
<v Speaker 2>you know, once you get out of that acute state.

662
00:32:13.359 --> 00:32:15.640
<v Speaker 2>Just like the heart attack person, as soon as you

663
00:32:15.680 --> 00:32:18.599
<v Speaker 2>get out of experiencing cardiac arrest, the next step is

664
00:32:18.599 --> 00:32:20.400
<v Speaker 2>going to be to go back to so some of

665
00:32:20.400 --> 00:32:22.480
<v Speaker 2>those preventative measures once you kind of get out of

666
00:32:22.480 --> 00:32:24.920
<v Speaker 2>the hospital. And I think the same thing is true

667
00:32:24.960 --> 00:32:27.799
<v Speaker 2>for clinical parts of these diseases. You might also want

668
00:32:27.839 --> 00:32:30.680
<v Speaker 2>to go back to experiencing gratitude and meditating in these things,

669
00:32:31.079 --> 00:32:33.680
<v Speaker 2>but it is important to get acute care if the

670
00:32:33.680 --> 00:32:36.039
<v Speaker 2>mental health situation you're in is acute.

671
00:32:36.279 --> 00:32:38.720
<v Speaker 1>Okay, that's great to know for people. You may know

672
00:32:38.759 --> 00:32:40.880
<v Speaker 1>when you hit this level because your friends will say,

673
00:32:40.960 --> 00:32:42.880
<v Speaker 1>I think you should see a doctor, dude, which is

674
00:32:42.880 --> 00:32:44.720
<v Speaker 1>what happened to me when I was going through the

675
00:32:44.720 --> 00:32:46.920
<v Speaker 1>hardest parts of my life and also had a couple

676
00:32:47.079 --> 00:32:50.559
<v Speaker 1>medical conditions that turned my brain into bees. The doctor

677
00:32:50.640 --> 00:32:53.119
<v Speaker 1>was like, well, shucks, you need more than a car wash.

678
00:32:53.200 --> 00:32:55.720
<v Speaker 1>Let's check under the hood there, buddy. But yes, what

679
00:32:55.880 --> 00:33:00.559
<v Speaker 1>is the technique for sloughing off persistent, crusty, muddy feelings

680
00:33:00.759 --> 00:33:03.680
<v Speaker 1>when it comes to things like gratitude and meditation? How

681
00:33:03.720 --> 00:33:06.200
<v Speaker 1>much is effective? Like how much can we get away

682
00:33:06.200 --> 00:33:09.000
<v Speaker 1>with if we're feeling reel down to the dumps, but

683
00:33:09.079 --> 00:33:11.720
<v Speaker 1>we're low on motivation. How much gratitude is enough, how

684
00:33:11.799 --> 00:33:13.880
<v Speaker 1>much meditation is enough? How much exercise is it?

685
00:33:14.759 --> 00:33:16.160
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean I think you know. One of the

686
00:33:16.240 --> 00:33:19.680
<v Speaker 2>nice things about this being all this stuff being evidence

687
00:33:19.680 --> 00:33:22.599
<v Speaker 2>based is that allows you to kind of do your

688
00:33:22.599 --> 00:33:25.960
<v Speaker 2>own experimentation. Right. The answer of how much meditation you

689
00:33:25.960 --> 00:33:28.920
<v Speaker 2>you know, particular podcast listener need might depend on all

690
00:33:29.000 --> 00:33:31.079
<v Speaker 2>kinds of things, right, and so the key is to

691
00:33:31.119 --> 00:33:33.400
<v Speaker 2>sort of try it out. One thing we know, though,

692
00:33:33.440 --> 00:33:36.279
<v Speaker 2>is that sometimes it takes less than you really expect.

693
00:33:36.559 --> 00:33:39.400
<v Speaker 2>Take something like gratitude, there's evidence that just scribbling down

694
00:33:39.559 --> 00:33:42.079
<v Speaker 2>three things that you're grateful for every day that can

695
00:33:42.079 --> 00:33:44.319
<v Speaker 2>be enough to significantly boost your well being in as

696
00:33:44.319 --> 00:33:46.880
<v Speaker 2>little as two weeks, Like doesn't take that much time.

697
00:33:47.119 --> 00:33:50.079
<v Speaker 2>There's evidence, for example, from Hetty Cobra's lab at Yale,

698
00:33:50.079 --> 00:33:52.799
<v Speaker 2>that even as little as ten minutes of meditation a

699
00:33:52.920 --> 00:33:55.759
<v Speaker 2>day can really start to improve your well being and

700
00:33:55.799 --> 00:33:57.480
<v Speaker 2>some mental health symptoms. Right.

701
00:33:57.720 --> 00:34:00.480
<v Speaker 1>For more on this, feel free to peruse paper such

702
00:34:00.519 --> 00:34:05.440
<v Speaker 1>as Brief Mindfulness Meditation improves attention in novices and Let

703
00:34:05.480 --> 00:34:09.639
<v Speaker 1>It Be Mindful Acceptance down regulates pain and negative emotion,

704
00:34:09.880 --> 00:34:13.519
<v Speaker 1>both published by doctor hettikober So. Scientists in lab coats

705
00:34:13.639 --> 00:34:17.440
<v Speaker 1>have dedicated their research and their grant money budgets to

706
00:34:17.559 --> 00:34:21.480
<v Speaker 1>proving that yes, meditation does help. It's free, it takes

707
00:34:21.559 --> 00:34:24.239
<v Speaker 1>less time than making a sandwich. We can do this.

708
00:34:24.360 --> 00:34:27.480
<v Speaker 2>Let's do this, and so it doesn't take long. What

709
00:34:27.519 --> 00:34:30.519
<v Speaker 2>it takes is some consistency. And so my instinct is like,

710
00:34:30.719 --> 00:34:32.559
<v Speaker 2>because sometimes we hear these tips like all right, I'm

711
00:34:32.559 --> 00:34:35.039
<v Speaker 2>gonna drop everything and do you know like seventy hours

712
00:34:35.039 --> 00:34:38.679
<v Speaker 2>of meditation, It's like no, no, no, just start really small.

713
00:34:39.000 --> 00:34:42.440
<v Speaker 2>Allow yourself to do these baby steps and test it out.

714
00:34:42.480 --> 00:34:44.599
<v Speaker 2>How are you feeling? Are you feeling better? Is making

715
00:34:45.119 --> 00:34:47.199
<v Speaker 2>is it making things better? Is it making things worse?

716
00:34:47.639 --> 00:34:50.920
<v Speaker 2>And so allowing ourself, the self compassion to engage in

717
00:34:50.960 --> 00:34:53.079
<v Speaker 2>these baby steps, I think is really important.

718
00:34:53.800 --> 00:34:55.960
<v Speaker 1>I think that's so true. Whenever I get out of

719
00:34:55.960 --> 00:34:59.320
<v Speaker 1>the habit of running, which is now I'll go do

720
00:34:59.360 --> 00:35:02.039
<v Speaker 1>a lap at the red but I'll have to just

721
00:35:02.079 --> 00:35:04.039
<v Speaker 1>tell myself the first couple of times I do it,

722
00:35:04.079 --> 00:35:06.280
<v Speaker 1>the first month, even as long as I just get

723
00:35:06.360 --> 00:35:09.480
<v Speaker 1>around the reservoir, even crawling is fine, you know, like

724
00:35:10.360 --> 00:35:13.159
<v Speaker 1>expecting yourself to get back into running at a certain

725
00:35:13.199 --> 00:35:17.280
<v Speaker 1>pace or doing things you know whole hog can be

726
00:35:17.320 --> 00:35:19.840
<v Speaker 1>so intimidating you just want to give up right away.

727
00:35:20.760 --> 00:35:22.760
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and I think you know, we're not good at

728
00:35:22.880 --> 00:35:26.000
<v Speaker 2>understanding the amount of self compassion we need to motivate ourselves.

729
00:35:26.000 --> 00:35:27.559
<v Speaker 2>I think again, this is a spot where I think

730
00:35:27.599 --> 00:35:29.280
<v Speaker 2>our minds get it wrong. We think the right way

731
00:35:29.320 --> 00:35:32.840
<v Speaker 2>to motivate ourselves is to become these horror drill instructors

732
00:35:32.880 --> 00:35:34.760
<v Speaker 2>and like yell at ourselves in our head in a

733
00:35:34.760 --> 00:35:36.880
<v Speaker 2>way that we'd never speak to a friend or a

734
00:35:37.000 --> 00:35:39.320
<v Speaker 2>child or someone we cared about hopefully right, But that

735
00:35:39.519 --> 00:35:42.159
<v Speaker 2>kind of just doesn't work. That convinces us that it's

736
00:35:42.239 --> 00:35:44.880
<v Speaker 2>not good to try. We end up setting our standards lower,

737
00:35:45.159 --> 00:35:49.039
<v Speaker 2>We end up procrastinating. More self compassionate turns out, can

738
00:35:49.079 --> 00:35:52.519
<v Speaker 2>actually allow you to engage in new habits better and

739
00:35:52.559 --> 00:35:55.440
<v Speaker 2>more effectively and with less procrastination. That's not our theory.

740
00:35:55.480 --> 00:35:57.760
<v Speaker 2>We like go for the drill sergeant approach. Yeah, but

741
00:35:57.800 --> 00:36:00.320
<v Speaker 2>we'd be better off kind of, you know, my fully

742
00:36:00.360 --> 00:36:02.880
<v Speaker 2>paying attention to what's going on and recognizing that we're

743
00:36:02.920 --> 00:36:05.119
<v Speaker 2>just human and giving ourselves a little bit more of

744
00:36:05.119 --> 00:36:05.840
<v Speaker 2>a benefit.

745
00:36:05.599 --> 00:36:08.679
<v Speaker 1>Of a doubt. Yeah, Like I never want to obey

746
00:36:09.039 --> 00:36:11.840
<v Speaker 1>a dick who's yelling at me, So why do I

747
00:36:11.880 --> 00:36:13.440
<v Speaker 1>do that to myself? Right?

748
00:36:13.840 --> 00:36:16.039
<v Speaker 2>And we're like, you know, the dickiest of dicks is

749
00:36:16.079 --> 00:36:18.599
<v Speaker 2>often the person in our head, right. You know, It's like, wait,

750
00:36:18.599 --> 00:36:20.480
<v Speaker 2>I would never say, you know, that thing I just

751
00:36:20.519 --> 00:36:22.360
<v Speaker 2>said to myself in my head. I would never say

752
00:36:22.360 --> 00:36:24.400
<v Speaker 2>that to another human. Why am I talking to myself

753
00:36:24.440 --> 00:36:24.760
<v Speaker 2>that way?

754
00:36:25.000 --> 00:36:28.519
<v Speaker 1>Yeah? I would want to slap my own self for

755
00:36:28.639 --> 00:36:32.599
<v Speaker 1>saying that, you know, Like I'm yeah, I'm the hardest

756
00:36:32.599 --> 00:36:35.920
<v Speaker 1>on myself more than I would ever tolerate in somebody else,

757
00:36:35.920 --> 00:36:38.760
<v Speaker 1>Which is so funny that we do that. But you know,

758
00:36:38.840 --> 00:36:41.440
<v Speaker 1>you mentioned the term positive psychology before, and I'm so

759
00:36:41.519 --> 00:36:44.119
<v Speaker 1>curious about that because I feel like I can't tell

760
00:36:44.119 --> 00:36:48.440
<v Speaker 1>if it's flimplam or not that positive psychology is totally

761
00:36:48.480 --> 00:36:53.079
<v Speaker 1>like a legit practice or is it something along the

762
00:36:53.079 --> 00:36:56.239
<v Speaker 1>lines of like toxic positivity at all costs? Where what

763
00:36:56.320 --> 00:36:58.840
<v Speaker 1>is positive Psychology's? What do scientists think of it?

764
00:36:59.480 --> 00:37:04.199
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean the term positive psychology began when scientists

765
00:37:04.280 --> 00:37:07.480
<v Speaker 2>Marley Seligman, who kind of invented the field. There's thought

766
00:37:07.599 --> 00:37:09.760
<v Speaker 2>that the founder of the field, you know, really had

767
00:37:09.800 --> 00:37:12.800
<v Speaker 2>this intuition that so much of psychology is about, you know,

768
00:37:12.840 --> 00:37:14.920
<v Speaker 2>what he called kind of below baseline, right like I'm

769
00:37:14.920 --> 00:37:17.519
<v Speaker 2>trying to cure depression, I'm trying to cure anxiety or

770
00:37:17.519 --> 00:37:20.400
<v Speaker 2>something like that. But he realized that we didn't. He have,

771
00:37:20.519 --> 00:37:22.159
<v Speaker 2>as he called it, a good science of kind of

772
00:37:22.159 --> 00:37:24.519
<v Speaker 2>going above baseline. You know, there's baseline, and then there's

773
00:37:24.599 --> 00:37:26.840
<v Speaker 2>feeling like you're flourishing, you know, then there's getting social

774
00:37:26.880 --> 00:37:30.400
<v Speaker 2>connection and life, feeling really present, experiencing joy. And so

775
00:37:30.679 --> 00:37:34.320
<v Speaker 2>he really christened this name of this field positive psychology,

776
00:37:34.760 --> 00:37:37.440
<v Speaker 2>in order to focus on those things. But I think

777
00:37:37.480 --> 00:37:39.880
<v Speaker 2>positive psychology gets the wrong rap. I think there's this

778
00:37:39.920 --> 00:37:42.400
<v Speaker 2>idea that like you have to only be positive. But

779
00:37:42.599 --> 00:37:44.920
<v Speaker 2>you know, if you look at what this research is

780
00:37:44.960 --> 00:37:47.800
<v Speaker 2>really showing, there's a lot of evidence that a real,

781
00:37:47.920 --> 00:37:51.800
<v Speaker 2>true happy life, a successful life, a healthy life involves

782
00:37:51.840 --> 00:37:55.440
<v Speaker 2>experiencing negative emotions allowing those not running away from them.

783
00:37:55.519 --> 00:37:58.199
<v Speaker 2>There's you know, lots of evidence suggesting that there are

784
00:37:58.239 --> 00:38:01.000
<v Speaker 2>different techniques you can use to navigate those emotions and

785
00:38:01.039 --> 00:38:03.679
<v Speaker 2>sort of feel them without getting like destroyed by them.

786
00:38:04.159 --> 00:38:05.519
<v Speaker 2>And so I think, you know, when you hear these

787
00:38:05.559 --> 00:38:09.000
<v Speaker 2>terms positive psychology, positivity, they can kind of feel a

788
00:38:09.000 --> 00:38:12.000
<v Speaker 2>little cheesy and get a bad rap that it's like positive, positive,

789
00:38:12.039 --> 00:38:15.239
<v Speaker 2>positive all the time. But but that's not really when

790
00:38:15.239 --> 00:38:18.000
<v Speaker 2>you dig into the field, what it's showing my sense

791
00:38:18.039 --> 00:38:20.159
<v Speaker 2>is that you know, the whole goal is to get

792
00:38:20.199 --> 00:38:22.800
<v Speaker 2>to you know, this idea of you, Diaminia, this rich,

793
00:38:23.000 --> 00:38:26.119
<v Speaker 2>meaningful life. And you do that not through you know,

794
00:38:26.239 --> 00:38:28.719
<v Speaker 2>putting blinders on and being a Pollyanna and like you know,

795
00:38:28.760 --> 00:38:31.400
<v Speaker 2>trying only to experience happy, happy, happy, no matter what.

796
00:38:31.480 --> 00:38:33.440
<v Speaker 2>You do that by having a full life which is

797
00:38:33.559 --> 00:38:35.719
<v Speaker 2>rich with lots of emotions and experiences.

798
00:38:36.920 --> 00:38:40.440
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's that's such a good point about letting yourself

799
00:38:40.599 --> 00:38:45.159
<v Speaker 1>feel those negative emotions but not necessarily like succumbing to them,

800
00:38:45.559 --> 00:38:49.039
<v Speaker 1>you know, not letting them win all the time. Yeah.

801
00:38:49.079 --> 00:38:50.760
<v Speaker 2>And I think we, you know, we get that wrong.

802
00:38:50.920 --> 00:38:54.480
<v Speaker 2>Like I think our instinct again is this idea that well,

803
00:38:54.519 --> 00:38:56.679
<v Speaker 2>there's some negative emotion I should run away from that,

804
00:38:56.880 --> 00:38:58.800
<v Speaker 2>or the right move would be to sort of suppress it,

805
00:38:58.880 --> 00:39:01.719
<v Speaker 2>you know, stiff upper lip. But there's evidence from James

806
00:39:01.719 --> 00:39:05.239
<v Speaker 2>Gross at Stanford that the act of suppressing our emotions

807
00:39:05.400 --> 00:39:09.239
<v Speaker 2>can lead to things like increased cardiac stress or even

808
00:39:09.320 --> 00:39:12.239
<v Speaker 2>can cause us to have some problems with memory and

809
00:39:12.239 --> 00:39:14.320
<v Speaker 2>decision making. You do worse on a memory test when

810
00:39:14.320 --> 00:39:17.360
<v Speaker 2>you're trying to suppress some negative emotion, so it has

811
00:39:17.440 --> 00:39:20.639
<v Speaker 2>negative costs. We're much better off if we can find

812
00:39:20.679 --> 00:39:24.920
<v Speaker 2>ways to regulate and allow those emotions right to experience them,

813
00:39:25.000 --> 00:39:27.760
<v Speaker 2>give them some time, and then be self compassionate and

814
00:39:27.840 --> 00:39:30.239
<v Speaker 2>nurture ourselves through them.

815
00:39:30.280 --> 00:39:32.559
<v Speaker 1>Are there any myths about happiness that you find yourself

816
00:39:32.599 --> 00:39:33.960
<v Speaker 1>constantly having to bust.

817
00:39:33.800 --> 00:39:35.639
<v Speaker 2>All the time? I mean, you know, as we've been

818
00:39:35.639 --> 00:39:37.559
<v Speaker 2>talking about, like, our minds lie to us all the

819
00:39:37.559 --> 00:39:39.320
<v Speaker 2>time about this stuff. I mean, the biggest one, the

820
00:39:39.320 --> 00:39:41.880
<v Speaker 2>one that my students fall prey to so much, is

821
00:39:41.880 --> 00:39:45.039
<v Speaker 2>that happiness is about circumstances. You know, that happiness is

822
00:39:45.039 --> 00:39:47.400
<v Speaker 2>about money. In particular, my Yale students, we're all thinking

823
00:39:47.440 --> 00:39:49.159
<v Speaker 2>about what job they want to get when they get

824
00:39:49.199 --> 00:39:51.480
<v Speaker 2>out of this Ivy League university, and what salary they're

825
00:39:51.480 --> 00:39:53.440
<v Speaker 2>going to get in things. You know, you tell them

826
00:39:53.480 --> 00:39:56.679
<v Speaker 2>that after a certain reasonable middle class income, money doesn't

827
00:39:56.679 --> 00:39:58.760
<v Speaker 2>matter for happiness anymore, and they want to fight you

828
00:39:58.800 --> 00:40:00.159
<v Speaker 2>on it. They're like, well, you know, what what if

829
00:40:00.199 --> 00:40:01.679
<v Speaker 2>I spend it differently, or what if I went on

830
00:40:01.760 --> 00:40:04.239
<v Speaker 2>vacation to these places over and over again, you're like, Nope,

831
00:40:04.280 --> 00:40:06.679
<v Speaker 2>doesn't count. Like or at the very least, it's not

832
00:40:06.719 --> 00:40:09.079
<v Speaker 2>so much that money doesn't matter for happiness. It's just

833
00:40:09.400 --> 00:40:11.360
<v Speaker 2>there are so many other things you could focus on

834
00:40:11.400 --> 00:40:12.559
<v Speaker 2>that matter much much more.

835
00:40:12.960 --> 00:40:13.159
<v Speaker 1>You know.

836
00:40:13.320 --> 00:40:15.559
<v Speaker 2>Maybe yeah, you know, if you go up like that

837
00:40:15.679 --> 00:40:17.679
<v Speaker 2>minuscule amount, if you put all this work in and

838
00:40:17.719 --> 00:40:20.199
<v Speaker 2>all this time in to earn more, maybe you get

839
00:40:20.199 --> 00:40:23.480
<v Speaker 2>a teeny bomp. Maybe maybe not, But like if you

840
00:40:23.599 --> 00:40:26.039
<v Speaker 2>just wrote down three things you're grateful for, that would

841
00:40:26.079 --> 00:40:28.639
<v Speaker 2>work way more effectively. Like we know that empirically.

842
00:40:29.360 --> 00:40:31.360
<v Speaker 1>Is there a test where people can go figure out

843
00:40:31.840 --> 00:40:32.920
<v Speaker 1>how happy I am? I?

844
00:40:33.199 --> 00:40:35.639
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, there's also different spots online where you can do that.

845
00:40:35.679 --> 00:40:38.719
<v Speaker 2>In fact, Marty Seligman, who we mentioned this, founder of

846
00:40:38.719 --> 00:40:42.519
<v Speaker 2>Positive Psychology, has a website called Authentic Happiness. If you

847
00:40:42.679 --> 00:40:44.559
<v Speaker 2>kind of google the authentic Happiness test.

848
00:40:45.119 --> 00:40:47.280
<v Speaker 1>So yes, I checked this out, and if you google

849
00:40:47.400 --> 00:40:51.639
<v Speaker 1>Authentic Happiness you can help fellow you demonologists by taking

850
00:40:51.920 --> 00:40:57.000
<v Speaker 1>scored questionnaires. They have Authentic Happiness Inventory, the General Happiness Scale,

851
00:40:57.320 --> 00:41:02.320
<v Speaker 1>Positive and Negative Effect Questionnaire, the Four Dice Emotions Questionnaire.

852
00:41:02.679 --> 00:41:06.880
<v Speaker 1>I myself opted for the classic the Authentic Happiness Inventory

853
00:41:07.119 --> 00:41:09.800
<v Speaker 1>and on a scale of one to five, Jared, what

854
00:41:09.800 --> 00:41:15.559
<v Speaker 1>do you think I got three? You know me too, yeah,

855
00:41:15.599 --> 00:41:18.320
<v Speaker 1>three point oh eight. So maybe I'll meditate a bunch

856
00:41:18.320 --> 00:41:20.039
<v Speaker 1>and then I'll take it in a few months. Also,

857
00:41:20.159 --> 00:41:22.440
<v Speaker 1>I have no idea what all those different tests do,

858
00:41:22.800 --> 00:41:25.119
<v Speaker 1>but I'm sure that the scientists know, and that's all

859
00:41:25.159 --> 00:41:25.679
<v Speaker 1>that matters.

860
00:41:26.239 --> 00:41:28.119
<v Speaker 2>You know, you don't need a fancy test. It's really

861
00:41:28.239 --> 00:41:30.440
<v Speaker 2>kind of all things considered, how happy are you with

862
00:41:30.480 --> 00:41:32.440
<v Speaker 2>your life? And this is the beauty. There's not for

863
00:41:32.480 --> 00:41:35.000
<v Speaker 2>bitter or for worse. There's not a thermometer that we

864
00:41:35.039 --> 00:41:37.079
<v Speaker 2>can use for happiness as scientists where we put it

865
00:41:37.079 --> 00:41:39.639
<v Speaker 2>in like boop, you're ninety eight point six, you know happy?

866
00:41:40.639 --> 00:41:42.679
<v Speaker 2>You know, you just have to answer it for yourself.

867
00:41:42.880 --> 00:41:46.199
<v Speaker 2>And that kind of feels, you know, a little bit,

868
00:41:46.719 --> 00:41:50.079
<v Speaker 2>not as legit scientifically, but in practice, that's what we're

869
00:41:50.079 --> 00:41:51.800
<v Speaker 2>really trying to get at. We're trying to get at

870
00:41:52.159 --> 00:41:54.840
<v Speaker 2>your own perception of how things are going, and if

871
00:41:54.880 --> 00:41:56.960
<v Speaker 2>things are going well, then they're going well. Uh.

872
00:41:57.639 --> 00:42:01.039
<v Speaker 1>Can I ask you some listener questions? Sure, But before that,

873
00:42:01.280 --> 00:42:04.920
<v Speaker 1>let's aim a money canon at a worthy cause. This week,

874
00:42:04.960 --> 00:42:09.199
<v Speaker 1>doctor Santos chose DonorsChoose dot org, which lets teachers list

875
00:42:09.239 --> 00:42:12.559
<v Speaker 1>their classroom needs and then regular Jabroni's like you and

876
00:42:12.599 --> 00:42:15.360
<v Speaker 1>me can make their dreams come true. So donors Choose

877
00:42:15.400 --> 00:42:19.239
<v Speaker 1>has fulfilled one point seven million classroom projects from butterfly

878
00:42:19.320 --> 00:42:22.280
<v Speaker 1>cocoons to robotics kits, to pencils and paper and books

879
00:42:22.280 --> 00:42:25.760
<v Speaker 1>with diverse characters. So in doctor Santo's name, we funded

880
00:42:25.760 --> 00:42:28.599
<v Speaker 1>Missus Wedder of MacArthur Middle School's project to make birthday

881
00:42:28.639 --> 00:42:32.000
<v Speaker 1>party and a bad gifts for impoverished students Carbondale Middle

882
00:42:32.000 --> 00:42:36.280
<v Speaker 1>schools MS McCormick's stem lab kits and LA's Missus B's

883
00:42:36.400 --> 00:42:40.920
<v Speaker 1>kindergartens class with printer cartridges for craft projects at handouts.

884
00:42:41.079 --> 00:42:43.119
<v Speaker 1>So that is donors choose dot org. I had never

885
00:42:43.119 --> 00:42:45.480
<v Speaker 1>heard of them before this. They seem awesome. Our donations

886
00:42:45.480 --> 00:42:48.000
<v Speaker 1>were made possible by the following sponsors, whom you hear

887
00:42:48.000 --> 00:42:52.400
<v Speaker 1>about now, okay, happy to ask your questions for Doctor

888
00:42:52.400 --> 00:42:57.280
<v Speaker 1>Santos Okay. Ariol Reagan wants to know do animals experience happiness?

889
00:42:57.519 --> 00:42:59.559
<v Speaker 1>Are they happier than people? Yeah?

890
00:42:59.719 --> 00:43:02.719
<v Speaker 2>Truly hard to ask animals about their happiness because you

891
00:43:02.719 --> 00:43:04.559
<v Speaker 2>know I can do the self report measure with you

892
00:43:04.639 --> 00:43:07.119
<v Speaker 2>it's harder to do that with a banana slug or

893
00:43:07.079 --> 00:43:10.320
<v Speaker 2>a banobo or something. Physiologically, we know they go through

894
00:43:10.360 --> 00:43:12.519
<v Speaker 2>a lot of the same states as humans, but it's

895
00:43:12.519 --> 00:43:15.199
<v Speaker 2>hard to know for sure if those physiological states correlate

896
00:43:15.199 --> 00:43:17.599
<v Speaker 2>with this subjective state. I only know that you have

897
00:43:17.679 --> 00:43:20.199
<v Speaker 2>the subjective state because you tell me. And so even

898
00:43:20.199 --> 00:43:24.199
<v Speaker 2>though everything we can objectively look at like suggests that it,

899
00:43:24.360 --> 00:43:27.960
<v Speaker 2>you know, we were feeling the same thing subjectively, it's

900
00:43:27.960 --> 00:43:29.039
<v Speaker 2>really hard to know for sure.

901
00:43:30.320 --> 00:43:33.519
<v Speaker 1>So one thing some scientists try to observe is play

902
00:43:33.559 --> 00:43:37.159
<v Speaker 1>behavior like hopping around and running, chewing on stuff. My

903
00:43:37.320 --> 00:43:40.400
<v Speaker 1>tiny poodle Angel she rubs her butt against stuff like

904
00:43:40.440 --> 00:43:43.199
<v Speaker 1>a tire or my shoe. That's her version of typing.

905
00:43:43.239 --> 00:43:47.320
<v Speaker 1>Hashtag blessed Fortney Gratziana wants to know can anxious people

906
00:43:47.360 --> 00:43:47.960
<v Speaker 1>be happy?

907
00:43:49.119 --> 00:43:51.320
<v Speaker 2>I think anxious people can definitely be happy. I think

908
00:43:51.320 --> 00:43:53.760
<v Speaker 2>there are a lot of strategies we can use to

909
00:43:53.920 --> 00:43:56.440
<v Speaker 2>regulate and allow our anxiety. I think part of the

910
00:43:56.480 --> 00:43:59.519
<v Speaker 2>problem with anxiety is that we try to run away

911
00:43:59.519 --> 00:44:01.880
<v Speaker 2>from it, that we like, you know, try to avoid

912
00:44:01.880 --> 00:44:04.360
<v Speaker 2>it at all costs. But that's yet another emotion that

913
00:44:04.400 --> 00:44:06.280
<v Speaker 2>I think we can kind of sit with like feeling

914
00:44:06.360 --> 00:44:08.719
<v Speaker 2>really anxious right now, it's eight out of ten. You

915
00:44:08.760 --> 00:44:11.320
<v Speaker 2>can sort of surf that anxiety urge and get to

916
00:44:11.400 --> 00:44:13.639
<v Speaker 2>the other side and then do some work to sort

917
00:44:13.639 --> 00:44:16.159
<v Speaker 2>of nurture yourself. So I think you can be anxious

918
00:44:16.199 --> 00:44:18.119
<v Speaker 2>and happy, just like you can be sad and happy,

919
00:44:18.119 --> 00:44:20.119
<v Speaker 2>and you can be angry and happy. You know, to

920
00:44:20.199 --> 00:44:23.719
<v Speaker 2>have a truly happy life requires experiencing all those emotions

921
00:44:24.039 --> 00:44:26.320
<v Speaker 2>but finding ways to kind of navigate them so they

922
00:44:26.360 --> 00:44:27.039
<v Speaker 2>don't take over.

923
00:44:27.360 --> 00:44:30.599
<v Speaker 1>Mm hmm, oh, that's really well said. Aiden Paco and

924
00:44:30.639 --> 00:44:33.199
<v Speaker 1>Meg g want to know, is it flim flam that

925
00:44:33.320 --> 00:44:36.480
<v Speaker 1>smiling actually makes you happier or is that a truth fact?

926
00:44:36.800 --> 00:44:39.440
<v Speaker 1>Meg says and laughing, and a lot of other folks

927
00:44:39.960 --> 00:44:43.280
<v Speaker 1>looking at you, patrons say see demos one oh one,

928
00:44:43.519 --> 00:44:47.559
<v Speaker 1>Alexis Wallack and Ashley Herbal wa No, can you fake

929
00:44:47.599 --> 00:44:48.400
<v Speaker 1>it till you make it?

930
00:44:49.079 --> 00:44:51.960
<v Speaker 2>There's a lot of feedback that we get from other

931
00:44:51.960 --> 00:44:56.719
<v Speaker 2>people's emotions, from like our own feedback from our own

932
00:44:56.880 --> 00:44:59.440
<v Speaker 2>like actions, you know, so pretending you're happy, acting like

933
00:44:59.480 --> 00:45:01.400
<v Speaker 2>you're happy can often put you in a happy state,

934
00:45:01.400 --> 00:45:03.679
<v Speaker 2>in part because it puts the people around you in

935
00:45:03.719 --> 00:45:06.519
<v Speaker 2>a happy state. And we know that there's a lot

936
00:45:06.559 --> 00:45:09.519
<v Speaker 2>of evidence for what's called emotional contagion. Right, just like

937
00:45:09.880 --> 00:45:12.199
<v Speaker 2>if I'm around happy people, I'm just going to catch

938
00:45:12.199 --> 00:45:14.800
<v Speaker 2>the emotions of that happy person and the reverse, right,

939
00:45:14.800 --> 00:45:18.159
<v Speaker 2>if I'm around those negative nelly is like that I'm

940
00:45:18.159 --> 00:45:20.800
<v Speaker 2>gonna catch that too, And so there is a kind

941
00:45:20.840 --> 00:45:22.840
<v Speaker 2>of fake it till you make it. There's associate with

942
00:45:22.880 --> 00:45:25.360
<v Speaker 2>the people who have the emotions that you want to experience.

943
00:45:25.719 --> 00:45:28.280
<v Speaker 2>It's a powerful way to kind of use your situation,

944
00:45:28.559 --> 00:45:31.239
<v Speaker 2>your social environment to build in well being.

945
00:45:32.280 --> 00:45:36.599
<v Speaker 1>Is there anything you can do for a friend who

946
00:45:36.920 --> 00:45:41.719
<v Speaker 1>is feeling really unhappy to help them out as well? Yeah?

947
00:45:41.760 --> 00:45:44.239
<v Speaker 2>I think you know. The way to do it, I

948
00:45:44.280 --> 00:45:46.840
<v Speaker 2>think really is to try to bring some of these

949
00:45:46.880 --> 00:45:49.480
<v Speaker 2>practices in naturally, right. I mean, first of all, give

950
00:45:49.480 --> 00:45:51.960
<v Speaker 2>that friends some social connection, right, just the very act

951
00:45:52.000 --> 00:45:54.440
<v Speaker 2>of you talking to them, being around them, spending time

952
00:45:54.480 --> 00:45:56.920
<v Speaker 2>with them is going to improve their well being. I

953
00:45:56.920 --> 00:46:00.599
<v Speaker 2>think you can also bring your attitudes of that are positis, right.

954
00:46:00.840 --> 00:46:03.159
<v Speaker 2>You know, if you're expressing things that you're grateful for,

955
00:46:03.559 --> 00:46:06.199
<v Speaker 2>you know, if you're savoring things and feeling a little

956
00:46:06.199 --> 00:46:08.719
<v Speaker 2>bit present, you know that that kind of thing is

957
00:46:08.800 --> 00:46:11.599
<v Speaker 2>naturally going to rub off on them because of emotional contagion,

958
00:46:11.639 --> 00:46:14.159
<v Speaker 2>because of behavioral contagion. But the biggest thing you can

959
00:46:14.199 --> 00:46:16.320
<v Speaker 2>do is, I think, check in, you know, check in

960
00:46:16.360 --> 00:46:19.000
<v Speaker 2>and allow yourself to be present and be there for

961
00:46:19.079 --> 00:46:21.599
<v Speaker 2>someone who needs you. Really powerful way to use your

962
00:46:21.639 --> 00:46:23.440
<v Speaker 2>happiness to positively affect others.

963
00:46:23.880 --> 00:46:25.760
<v Speaker 1>So if you ever think, why would I check up

964
00:46:25.800 --> 00:46:28.239
<v Speaker 1>on someone I don't know how to fix things, don't worry.

965
00:46:28.400 --> 00:46:31.320
<v Speaker 1>Just be alive and in their orbit and listen or

966
00:46:31.880 --> 00:46:34.360
<v Speaker 1>tell them about how lizards have two dicks. That's what

967
00:46:34.400 --> 00:46:38.320
<v Speaker 1>I do. Patrick Javrooni says, first time question asker wants

968
00:46:38.360 --> 00:46:41.360
<v Speaker 1>to know happiness and the microbiome connection. What can we

969
00:46:41.440 --> 00:46:45.199
<v Speaker 1>do to improve our microbiome is their connection? What's the deal?

970
00:46:45.880 --> 00:46:48.360
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, great, great question, And it's something that we don't

971
00:46:48.400 --> 00:46:51.679
<v Speaker 2>have that much good data on yet. You know, everything

972
00:46:51.719 --> 00:46:55.119
<v Speaker 2>we know suggests that microbiome effects all kinds of stuff.

973
00:46:55.199 --> 00:46:57.719
<v Speaker 2>It would be surprising, I think, in some ways if

974
00:46:57.719 --> 00:47:00.320
<v Speaker 2>it didn't affect our well being and our happiness. But

975
00:47:00.559 --> 00:47:02.760
<v Speaker 2>you know, this is just a new area of work

976
00:47:02.800 --> 00:47:04.840
<v Speaker 2>where we're learning new things all the time and we

977
00:47:04.880 --> 00:47:07.000
<v Speaker 2>don't really have a great verdict yet. But you know,

978
00:47:07.000 --> 00:47:09.880
<v Speaker 2>if you want to throw research money onto something that

979
00:47:09.920 --> 00:47:12.280
<v Speaker 2>I think will be really telling in the next ten

980
00:47:12.360 --> 00:47:14.960
<v Speaker 2>years of happiness science. I think microbiome might be a

981
00:47:15.000 --> 00:47:15.800
<v Speaker 2>spot to do that.

982
00:47:16.199 --> 00:47:18.000
<v Speaker 1>Nice. You can just get in on poop on the

983
00:47:18.000 --> 00:47:20.599
<v Speaker 1>ground floor. Let's ride this thing to the top.

984
00:47:20.840 --> 00:47:23.960
<v Speaker 2>Every poop samples from very happy people. I'm in.

985
00:47:24.719 --> 00:47:27.960
<v Speaker 1>I think that you literally can buy poop like on

986
00:47:28.079 --> 00:47:31.679
<v Speaker 1>the black market for your own at home, like of

987
00:47:31.760 --> 00:47:35.159
<v Speaker 1>fecal transplants ps. Of course I looked this up and

988
00:47:35.199 --> 00:47:38.760
<v Speaker 1>getting an enema with someone else's poop. It's called fecal

989
00:47:39.039 --> 00:47:43.320
<v Speaker 1>microbiotic transplantation. And in the Microbiology Gut Biome episode from

990
00:47:43.360 --> 00:47:46.800
<v Speaker 1>November twenty eighteen, we go into detail about how our

991
00:47:46.840 --> 00:47:50.920
<v Speaker 1>microbiomes are suffering from processed foods and artificial ingredients and

992
00:47:51.079 --> 00:47:55.079
<v Speaker 1>overuse of antibiotics for things like viral infections that don't

993
00:47:55.079 --> 00:47:58.440
<v Speaker 1>need antibiotics. So, given that up to ninety percent of

994
00:47:58.440 --> 00:48:02.840
<v Speaker 1>our serotonin is synthesized in our simmering pooh filled guts,

995
00:48:03.280 --> 00:48:08.239
<v Speaker 1>diy fmts, do it yourself. Fecal microbiota transplantations as are called.

996
00:48:08.280 --> 00:48:10.679
<v Speaker 1>They're getting more and more common as doctors are still

997
00:48:10.719 --> 00:48:13.519
<v Speaker 1>reluctant to shove poo up our butts even when we

998
00:48:13.559 --> 00:48:14.159
<v Speaker 1>ask nicely.

999
00:48:14.559 --> 00:48:14.639
<v Speaker 2>So.

1000
00:48:14.800 --> 00:48:19.000
<v Speaker 1>According to an American Journal of gastro Entrology article called

1001
00:48:19.320 --> 00:48:23.440
<v Speaker 1>Understanding the Scope of Do it Yourself fecal microbiotic Transplant,

1002
00:48:23.519 --> 00:48:26.760
<v Speaker 1>eighty two percent of folks who tried it felt better afterwards,

1003
00:48:27.079 --> 00:48:29.840
<v Speaker 1>and ninety two percent of those knew their stool donner

1004
00:48:30.119 --> 00:48:32.599
<v Speaker 1>who I don't know. I guess you find by asking

1005
00:48:32.599 --> 00:48:35.960
<v Speaker 1>your friends who seems chill and has good poops? So

1006
00:48:36.159 --> 00:48:38.480
<v Speaker 1>you can ask a doctor to screen a donor sample

1007
00:48:38.639 --> 00:48:41.000
<v Speaker 1>and see if they'll do it. Otherwise, there's plenty of

1008
00:48:41.000 --> 00:48:43.440
<v Speaker 1>instructions on the internet. Apparently you buy a blunder, a

1009
00:48:43.480 --> 00:48:46.199
<v Speaker 1>goodwill or something, and then you maybe burn it later.

1010
00:48:46.400 --> 00:48:49.079
<v Speaker 1>None of this is my beeswax. Ask your doctors, don't

1011
00:48:49.079 --> 00:48:52.199
<v Speaker 1>sue me or make me a smoothie later. I'm good.

1012
00:48:52.480 --> 00:48:54.519
<v Speaker 1>Rahala wants to know first time question asker, is there

1013
00:48:54.559 --> 00:48:56.480
<v Speaker 1>any truth to the notion that people who are generally

1014
00:48:56.480 --> 00:48:58.880
<v Speaker 1>happy tend to live longer? And I want to say,

1015
00:48:58.920 --> 00:49:02.280
<v Speaker 1>My dad has can or and his oncologists were saying,

1016
00:49:02.559 --> 00:49:06.480
<v Speaker 1>just positivity is really helpful for patients in general. Do

1017
00:49:07.079 --> 00:49:10.440
<v Speaker 1>we find that statistically sound?

1018
00:49:10.679 --> 00:49:13.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean, there're actually some strong evidence that happiness

1019
00:49:13.960 --> 00:49:17.559
<v Speaker 2>seems to affect our longevity in super interesting ways. One

1020
00:49:17.559 --> 00:49:20.239
<v Speaker 2>of the most famous studies on this looked at a

1021
00:49:20.280 --> 00:49:23.440
<v Speaker 2>group of individuals that had really similar lifestyles. Because if

1022
00:49:23.440 --> 00:49:25.159
<v Speaker 2>you think about it, this is a hard study to do, right,

1023
00:49:25.199 --> 00:49:27.719
<v Speaker 2>we want to ask, like, our happier people living longer,

1024
00:49:27.719 --> 00:49:29.599
<v Speaker 2>but of course there's lots of things that affect whether

1025
00:49:29.639 --> 00:49:32.119
<v Speaker 2>you live longer. And so the researchers tried to find

1026
00:49:32.119 --> 00:49:35.880
<v Speaker 2>a population that had like reasonably low risk factors and

1027
00:49:35.920 --> 00:49:39.159
<v Speaker 2>a really similar lifestyle, and they hit upon studying nuns.

1028
00:49:40.000 --> 00:49:41.760
<v Speaker 2>The way they did this was that they went back

1029
00:49:41.800 --> 00:49:44.719
<v Speaker 2>to nuns journals that they had in their twenties. I

1030
00:49:44.719 --> 00:49:47.199
<v Speaker 2>guess nuns, at least in one of these convents kind

1031
00:49:47.199 --> 00:49:49.800
<v Speaker 2>of did some journaling when they first joined the nunnery.

1032
00:49:50.079 --> 00:49:51.400
<v Speaker 2>So you go back when the nuns are in their

1033
00:49:51.400 --> 00:49:53.119
<v Speaker 2>twenties and you look at their journals and you do

1034
00:49:53.199 --> 00:49:55.599
<v Speaker 2>like a text analysis, like, you know, you run the

1035
00:49:55.599 --> 00:49:58.280
<v Speaker 2>text of their journals through something that pulls out all

1036
00:49:58.280 --> 00:50:00.239
<v Speaker 2>the happy words and pulls out all the kind of

1037
00:50:00.320 --> 00:50:03.440
<v Speaker 2>negative words or just like any emotion words whatsoever, and

1038
00:50:03.480 --> 00:50:06.880
<v Speaker 2>then you use those textual analyzes to predict how many

1039
00:50:06.920 --> 00:50:09.400
<v Speaker 2>of the nuns live into their eighties and nineties. And

1040
00:50:09.480 --> 00:50:11.960
<v Speaker 2>what you find is that the happier nuns are just

1041
00:50:12.039 --> 00:50:15.320
<v Speaker 2>living surprisingly longer, you know, in some cases, like decades

1042
00:50:15.360 --> 00:50:18.280
<v Speaker 2>longer than the nuns on average who are just sadder,

1043
00:50:18.480 --> 00:50:21.440
<v Speaker 2>which is really quite striking. It suggests that happiness right

1044
00:50:21.599 --> 00:50:25.519
<v Speaker 2>might really be affecting like how long we live. So yeah,

1045
00:50:25.639 --> 00:50:30.119
<v Speaker 2>important important to focus on, not just because happiness feels good,

1046
00:50:30.400 --> 00:50:31.920
<v Speaker 2>but it might make you live longer too.

1047
00:50:32.400 --> 00:50:36.079
<v Speaker 1>Patron Anika Callen asked why are feelings of happiness stronger

1048
00:50:36.119 --> 00:50:40.000
<v Speaker 1>when you're younger? And RL Shaoul pelegg Page and r J.

1049
00:50:40.119 --> 00:50:42.159
<v Speaker 1>Deutge wanted to know if happier people tend to be

1050
00:50:42.199 --> 00:50:45.000
<v Speaker 1>of a certain gender or age. RJ wants to make

1051
00:50:45.039 --> 00:50:49.199
<v Speaker 1>sure they don't become a grumpy crank who hates everyone. Yeah,

1052
00:50:49.239 --> 00:50:51.920
<v Speaker 1>I wonder do do we find that people get happier

1053
00:50:52.000 --> 00:50:55.400
<v Speaker 1>as they age or crankier as they age?

1054
00:50:55.599 --> 00:50:58.760
<v Speaker 2>Yeah? On average, the data really suggests happier. There's some

1055
00:50:58.840 --> 00:51:01.880
<v Speaker 2>interesting like life span work on happiness. You know, you're

1056
00:51:01.920 --> 00:51:03.800
<v Speaker 2>kind of happy when you're young, and then as you

1057
00:51:03.840 --> 00:51:06.679
<v Speaker 2>become like an adult in middle aged, especially after you

1058
00:51:06.719 --> 00:51:09.159
<v Speaker 2>have children. In fact, you know, happiness tends to dip,

1059
00:51:09.559 --> 00:51:11.440
<v Speaker 2>but then as soon as you kind of go back

1060
00:51:11.440 --> 00:51:13.400
<v Speaker 2>to empty nesting, you know, when the kids go off

1061
00:51:13.440 --> 00:51:16.639
<v Speaker 2>to college, then the slope of happiness kind of goes

1062
00:51:16.679 --> 00:51:18.920
<v Speaker 2>back up. And so it's something to look forward to

1063
00:51:19.000 --> 00:51:22.880
<v Speaker 2>as you age. On average, older people tend to be happier, how.

1064
00:51:22.800 --> 00:51:24.679
<v Speaker 1>You know, I wasn't sure about that and kids, and

1065
00:51:24.719 --> 00:51:27.360
<v Speaker 1>I hadn't thought to ask that. But I have friends

1066
00:51:27.360 --> 00:51:29.199
<v Speaker 1>who have kids. I have friends who don't have kids.

1067
00:51:29.239 --> 00:51:32.440
<v Speaker 1>I myself have a daughter. She's a dog, and that's

1068
00:51:32.519 --> 00:51:36.360
<v Speaker 1>which she's probably the only kid I'm going to have,

1069
00:51:36.440 --> 00:51:41.079
<v Speaker 1>and she's an animal. But I don't know, like in general,

1070
00:51:41.840 --> 00:51:44.360
<v Speaker 1>is that the case is just the stress of having kids,

1071
00:51:44.360 --> 00:51:47.320
<v Speaker 1>but then the satisfaction that you did it later, so

1072
00:51:47.360 --> 00:51:49.320
<v Speaker 1>it's kind of like a like it balances.

1073
00:51:49.559 --> 00:51:51.079
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think this is one of the spots where

1074
00:51:51.119 --> 00:51:53.760
<v Speaker 2>those two constructs of happiness can be so powerful, the

1075
00:51:53.800 --> 00:51:56.400
<v Speaker 2>sort of happiness in your life and happiness with your life.

1076
00:51:56.599 --> 00:51:59.079
<v Speaker 2>Lots of evidence that kids kind of boost the happiness

1077
00:51:59.119 --> 00:52:01.079
<v Speaker 2>with your life. You get this sense of meaning and

1078
00:52:01.079 --> 00:52:03.639
<v Speaker 2>so on. But if you look at people's time budgets

1079
00:52:03.679 --> 00:52:06.079
<v Speaker 2>in terms of what they spend their time on, the

1080
00:52:06.119 --> 00:52:08.559
<v Speaker 2>thing that often feels the most miserable is spending time

1081
00:52:08.599 --> 00:52:10.400
<v Speaker 2>with your kids, like in your life, you know, when

1082
00:52:10.400 --> 00:52:12.719
<v Speaker 2>you're picking up you know, the toys and dealing with

1083
00:52:12.719 --> 00:52:15.239
<v Speaker 2>the dirty diapers and things. That is the thing that

1084
00:52:15.280 --> 00:52:20.119
<v Speaker 2>people seem to on average enjoy kind of the least.

1085
00:52:20.280 --> 00:52:23.440
<v Speaker 2>It ranks up there with like commuting and like shopping

1086
00:52:23.480 --> 00:52:26.840
<v Speaker 2>for groceries. You know, not like a heavy endorsement, but

1087
00:52:26.920 --> 00:52:29.039
<v Speaker 2>that's kind of complicated. I think that's one of these

1088
00:52:29.039 --> 00:52:31.800
<v Speaker 2>reasons that you know, these constructs are kind of helpful.

1089
00:52:32.039 --> 00:52:33.800
<v Speaker 2>There are certain things that you do for meaning that

1090
00:52:33.840 --> 00:52:36.360
<v Speaker 2>in the moment don't feel great, but they wind up

1091
00:52:36.360 --> 00:52:39.079
<v Speaker 2>giving you meaning. And I think the tips are powerful too,

1092
00:52:39.079 --> 00:52:41.440
<v Speaker 2>because there hacks you can do to enjoy your time

1093
00:52:41.480 --> 00:52:43.880
<v Speaker 2>more with your kids. Right, if you have strategies for

1094
00:52:44.079 --> 00:52:47.679
<v Speaker 2>managing stress and negative emotions, that can probably make your

1095
00:52:47.679 --> 00:52:49.039
<v Speaker 2>time with your kids even happen.

1096
00:52:49.800 --> 00:52:52.920
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I'm so in awe of people who do have kids,

1097
00:52:53.039 --> 00:52:56.000
<v Speaker 1>just because it seems so challenging. And I know myself,

1098
00:52:56.039 --> 00:52:58.159
<v Speaker 1>I'm like so scatterbrained that I feel like I just

1099
00:52:58.400 --> 00:53:00.599
<v Speaker 1>don't necessarily feel like that would be my strong suit.

1100
00:53:00.800 --> 00:53:03.239
<v Speaker 1>But there are some people who love kiteboarding and others

1101
00:53:03.239 --> 00:53:05.280
<v Speaker 1>who are like no, thank you, Like I would rather

1102
00:53:05.320 --> 00:53:06.840
<v Speaker 1>be on the beach reading a book. So it really

1103
00:53:06.880 --> 00:53:08.119
<v Speaker 1>depends on what you like, you know.

1104
00:53:08.719 --> 00:53:10.519
<v Speaker 2>And I think you're doing it right because there's a

1105
00:53:10.559 --> 00:53:14.039
<v Speaker 2>lot of evidence that the furry babies, especially dogs, there's

1106
00:53:14.039 --> 00:53:17.000
<v Speaker 2>more research on dogs, really do have a significant effect

1107
00:53:17.039 --> 00:53:19.960
<v Speaker 2>on happiness. But again that research is interesting because it's

1108
00:53:19.960 --> 00:53:23.840
<v Speaker 2>not the dogs per se, it's kind of the benefits

1109
00:53:23.840 --> 00:53:26.559
<v Speaker 2>that we get from dogs. So dogs get us out exercising,

1110
00:53:26.639 --> 00:53:29.239
<v Speaker 2>dogs allow us to make more social connections. They are

1111
00:53:29.280 --> 00:53:31.360
<v Speaker 2>a social connection, but then they also let us socially

1112
00:53:31.400 --> 00:53:34.400
<v Speaker 2>connect with people. They make us more present. You know,

1113
00:53:34.480 --> 00:53:36.400
<v Speaker 2>when you're with your dog and you know you're playing

1114
00:53:36.400 --> 00:53:38.880
<v Speaker 2>fetch with your dog, it's hard to like be distracted

1115
00:53:38.960 --> 00:53:41.400
<v Speaker 2>or checking your email, right, And so it seems like

1116
00:53:41.480 --> 00:53:45.000
<v Speaker 2>dogs don't necessarily inherently make us happier, but they make

1117
00:53:45.079 --> 00:53:47.800
<v Speaker 2>us do a lot of the practices I've mentioned that

1118
00:53:48.159 --> 00:53:49.440
<v Speaker 2>lead to higher happiness.

1119
00:53:49.920 --> 00:53:53.079
<v Speaker 1>First time question asker Alana Rickman asks has the rapid

1120
00:53:53.119 --> 00:53:55.639
<v Speaker 1>development and technology in the last few years had an

1121
00:53:55.639 --> 00:54:00.199
<v Speaker 1>overall increase or decrease in people's happiness and patrons Diana

1122
00:54:00.480 --> 00:54:05.519
<v Speaker 1>ash Gelhouse, Jenna Mandola Lucas O'Neill, Nicole Kleinman all echoed that,

1123
00:54:05.920 --> 00:54:07.679
<v Speaker 1>and yeah, I wonder too in terms of being in

1124
00:54:07.679 --> 00:54:11.400
<v Speaker 1>the moment, is being on our phone does that take

1125
00:54:11.480 --> 00:54:14.679
<v Speaker 1>us out of the moment? Is that take us into

1126
00:54:14.719 --> 00:54:19.239
<v Speaker 1>a kind of another like universe or galaxy of what's

1127
00:54:19.239 --> 00:54:22.679
<v Speaker 1>happening in this digital realm versus what's happening around us.

1128
00:54:24.039 --> 00:54:26.239
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. I mean when you think about technology, it's worth

1129
00:54:26.280 --> 00:54:29.079
<v Speaker 2>remembering we can do technology for We can use technology

1130
00:54:29.079 --> 00:54:30.760
<v Speaker 2>for all kinds of things, right, you know, we could

1131
00:54:30.840 --> 00:54:33.280
<v Speaker 2>use technology to scribble in a gratitude journal, or I

1132
00:54:33.280 --> 00:54:35.039
<v Speaker 2>could pick up a phone and call my mom right

1133
00:54:35.039 --> 00:54:38.159
<v Speaker 2>and have a social connection. Often we're not using our

1134
00:54:38.159 --> 00:54:41.239
<v Speaker 2>technology in ways that boost happiness. We could, but often

1135
00:54:41.280 --> 00:54:44.519
<v Speaker 2>we're checking social media. You're getting this sort of nutri

1136
00:54:44.559 --> 00:54:48.639
<v Speaker 2>suite social connection, but not real stuff. I'm distracted and

1137
00:54:48.679 --> 00:54:50.800
<v Speaker 2>not paying attention to the real things in life. I

1138
00:54:50.800 --> 00:54:52.960
<v Speaker 2>could be present, looking at the trees or talking to

1139
00:54:52.960 --> 00:54:55.719
<v Speaker 2>the people around me, but you know, I'm scrolling through,

1140
00:54:55.840 --> 00:54:57.880
<v Speaker 2>you know, some dumb thing on the Internet. And so

1141
00:54:58.480 --> 00:55:01.440
<v Speaker 2>it's not that technology in and of itself is bad,

1142
00:55:01.800 --> 00:55:04.760
<v Speaker 2>it's just that the way we use it often is

1143
00:55:04.800 --> 00:55:08.559
<v Speaker 2>bad and it's kind of built to make it harder

1144
00:55:08.599 --> 00:55:11.559
<v Speaker 2>for us to use it. Well, you know, every app

1145
00:55:11.639 --> 00:55:14.559
<v Speaker 2>is in some ways competing for your attention, right, They

1146
00:55:14.599 --> 00:55:17.039
<v Speaker 2>want to notify you of stuff and have the dings

1147
00:55:17.079 --> 00:55:19.320
<v Speaker 2>that sort of give you a little burst of reward

1148
00:55:19.400 --> 00:55:22.119
<v Speaker 2>every time you get some new piece of information. And

1149
00:55:22.159 --> 00:55:24.480
<v Speaker 2>that means that our apps and our technology is kind

1150
00:55:24.480 --> 00:55:28.840
<v Speaker 2>of constantly competing with real life, you know, for our attention. Sadly,

1151
00:55:28.880 --> 00:55:31.599
<v Speaker 2>I think there's domains in which the technology is sort

1152
00:55:31.639 --> 00:55:34.360
<v Speaker 2>of winning, you know, which which makes sense. You know.

1153
00:55:34.840 --> 00:55:38.239
<v Speaker 2>At my podcast, I talked to the University of British

1154
00:55:38.239 --> 00:55:41.599
<v Speaker 2>Columbia researcher Liz Done, and she had this lovely quote

1155
00:55:41.599 --> 00:55:44.239
<v Speaker 2>where she's like, you know, imagine if to your next

1156
00:55:44.400 --> 00:55:47.000
<v Speaker 2>you know, like dinner date with your husband, like you

1157
00:55:47.079 --> 00:55:49.480
<v Speaker 2>took a big wheelbarrow, and in the wheelbarrow it was

1158
00:55:49.840 --> 00:55:52.400
<v Speaker 2>you know, DVDs of every movie you've ever seen, you know,

1159
00:55:52.440 --> 00:55:55.199
<v Speaker 2>a big pile of CDs of every song in the universe,

1160
00:55:55.280 --> 00:55:58.920
<v Speaker 2>like printouts of every family reunion ever, like you know,

1161
00:55:59.000 --> 00:56:02.119
<v Speaker 2>printouts of all your emails, like you know, big piles

1162
00:56:02.119 --> 00:56:04.280
<v Speaker 2>of porn, right, Like you know, if there was a

1163
00:56:04.320 --> 00:56:06.840
<v Speaker 2>wheelbarrow with all that stuff next to you. You'd be

1164
00:56:06.920 --> 00:56:08.880
<v Speaker 2>distract You'd want to be going through it the whole dinner.

1165
00:56:08.960 --> 00:56:10.320
<v Speaker 2>I'd be like, oh, let me go back to my

1166
00:56:10.400 --> 00:56:11.079
<v Speaker 2>family reunion.

1167
00:56:11.159 --> 00:56:11.519
<v Speaker 1>Dada.

1168
00:56:11.599 --> 00:56:14.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. But like what she says is like, your brain

1169
00:56:14.480 --> 00:56:16.719
<v Speaker 2>isn't stupid, Like your brain knows that on the other

1170
00:56:16.800 --> 00:56:19.800
<v Speaker 2>side of your iPhone is all that stuff. So there's

1171
00:56:19.880 --> 00:56:22.639
<v Speaker 2>something constantly in your brain that has to be like no, no, no, no,

1172
00:56:22.840 --> 00:56:25.880
<v Speaker 2>pay attention to this conversation because you know, don't check

1173
00:56:25.920 --> 00:56:28.400
<v Speaker 2>your email, don't check your email, and that kind of

1174
00:56:28.679 --> 00:56:32.599
<v Speaker 2>is constantly a little bit depleting. It's definitely distracting, but

1175
00:56:32.679 --> 00:56:34.199
<v Speaker 2>it's a little bit depleting as well.

1176
00:56:34.840 --> 00:56:37.679
<v Speaker 1>Just this weird real marrow.

1177
00:56:38.159 --> 00:56:39.840
<v Speaker 2>I mean when you think about what's on the other

1178
00:56:39.880 --> 00:56:42.360
<v Speaker 2>you know, like weather predict you know, like printouts of

1179
00:56:42.400 --> 00:56:47.480
<v Speaker 2>weather predictions, every every TikTok video and the history of

1180
00:56:47.559 --> 00:56:51.360
<v Speaker 2>the internet, right, I mean, it's a huge, huge slot machine.

1181
00:56:51.400 --> 00:56:53.840
<v Speaker 2>And sadly, you know, I mean, I love my husband,

1182
00:56:53.880 --> 00:56:56.519
<v Speaker 2>we have some great conversations, but is every conversation with

1183
00:56:56.559 --> 00:56:59.840
<v Speaker 2>my husband more interesting than literally everything on the internet,

1184
00:57:00.679 --> 00:57:03.960
<v Speaker 2>you know, not necessarily, And what that means is we're

1185
00:57:04.079 --> 00:57:07.559
<v Speaker 2>so tempted by that stuff. Over in real life social connection,

1186
00:57:07.639 --> 00:57:09.559
<v Speaker 2>even though we know that the in real life stuff

1187
00:57:09.880 --> 00:57:10.960
<v Speaker 2>is going to make us so much happy.

1188
00:57:11.079 --> 00:57:12.840
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's such a good way to look at it,

1189
00:57:12.920 --> 00:57:15.239
<v Speaker 1>is to understand just what our brain is sort of

1190
00:57:15.280 --> 00:57:18.960
<v Speaker 1>grappling with why it's difficult. It's not like a personal

1191
00:57:19.039 --> 00:57:23.480
<v Speaker 1>failing that we sometimes look to that. But yeah, I

1192
00:57:23.559 --> 00:57:27.000
<v Speaker 1>definitely find that when I'm looking for something to sort

1193
00:57:27.000 --> 00:57:29.119
<v Speaker 1>of boost my dopamine or happiness, I'll go to my

1194
00:57:29.159 --> 00:57:31.519
<v Speaker 1>phone and then I'll after an hour, I'll go, like

1195
00:57:31.920 --> 00:57:33.719
<v Speaker 1>I was, think, that really did the trick. If I

1196
00:57:33.760 --> 00:57:36.360
<v Speaker 1>had practiced some things I knew might be longer lasting.

1197
00:57:36.519 --> 00:57:38.760
<v Speaker 1>But at least I can't blame myself for why I

1198
00:57:38.840 --> 00:57:41.639
<v Speaker 1>was looking. Anthony had a great question asked, what if

1199
00:57:41.679 --> 00:57:44.119
<v Speaker 1>certain aspects of your happiness or the pursuit of your

1200
00:57:44.159 --> 00:57:48.239
<v Speaker 1>happiness cause others you care about to be unhappy, thereby

1201
00:57:48.639 --> 00:57:53.199
<v Speaker 1>making you unhappy. What about those circumstances where you're worried

1202
00:57:53.440 --> 00:57:56.920
<v Speaker 1>that your happiness might make other people dislike you?

1203
00:57:58.400 --> 00:58:01.239
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well, I think again, you know, if we're really

1204
00:58:01.280 --> 00:58:04.440
<v Speaker 2>going for true happiness, my guess is that those cases

1205
00:58:04.440 --> 00:58:07.239
<v Speaker 2>are occurring probably less often than you think. And by

1206
00:58:07.239 --> 00:58:10.239
<v Speaker 2>that I mean what you know, the real happiness seems

1207
00:58:10.280 --> 00:58:12.679
<v Speaker 2>to come from doing acts of kindness for other people.

1208
00:58:12.760 --> 00:58:16.280
<v Speaker 2>Real happiness seems to come from focusing on the happiness

1209
00:58:16.280 --> 00:58:18.519
<v Speaker 2>of others, right, you know, so already you know, we're

1210
00:58:18.599 --> 00:58:20.000
<v Speaker 2>kind of in a bind of like, well, other people

1211
00:58:20.000 --> 00:58:22.199
<v Speaker 2>aren't happy, then that's probably going to mean we're not happy.

1212
00:58:22.280 --> 00:58:25.000
<v Speaker 2>Rights we've talked about, happiness doesn't seem to come from

1213
00:58:25.039 --> 00:58:27.559
<v Speaker 2>our circumstances, So it's not like we're trying to be

1214
00:58:27.719 --> 00:58:31.159
<v Speaker 2>other people or go after these accolades. Right, happiness comes

1215
00:58:31.199 --> 00:58:33.800
<v Speaker 2>from being grateful and present from what you have. And

1216
00:58:33.880 --> 00:58:37.079
<v Speaker 2>so my guess is that more often than not, if

1217
00:58:37.079 --> 00:58:40.440
<v Speaker 2>you're pursuing happiness correctly, right, you know, based on what

1218
00:58:40.480 --> 00:58:43.119
<v Speaker 2>the science suggests, you're just not going to run into

1219
00:58:43.159 --> 00:58:47.639
<v Speaker 2>situations where you're sort of competing or hurting other people's happiness,

1220
00:58:47.679 --> 00:58:51.039
<v Speaker 2>because other people's happiness is part and parcel of getting

1221
00:58:51.119 --> 00:58:51.920
<v Speaker 2>true happiness.

1222
00:58:53.000 --> 00:58:55.039
<v Speaker 1>And if you're worried someone in your life will be

1223
00:58:55.199 --> 00:58:58.519
<v Speaker 1>upset at your happiness, just know it's your life and

1224
00:58:58.599 --> 00:59:00.800
<v Speaker 1>it's okay to feel good. If anyone has a problem

1225
00:59:00.800 --> 00:59:03.519
<v Speaker 1>with it, that is their own baggage to address. I

1226
00:59:03.599 --> 00:59:07.239
<v Speaker 1>highly suggest some of Melanie Baty's writings about codependency. I'm

1227
00:59:07.239 --> 00:59:09.079
<v Speaker 1>just going to leave that suggestion right there for you.

1228
00:59:09.400 --> 00:59:12.159
<v Speaker 1>Ben de Wurst says, I'm just finishing up my MBA

1229
00:59:12.199 --> 00:59:13.719
<v Speaker 1>and in one of my classes they talked about how

1230
00:59:13.760 --> 00:59:17.119
<v Speaker 1>optimism is actually an attribute of emotional intelligence and can

1231
00:59:17.159 --> 00:59:20.559
<v Speaker 1>be learned as an optimist. To myself, I'd always considered

1232
00:59:20.559 --> 00:59:22.760
<v Speaker 1>it more of a part of my personality like extrovert

1233
00:59:22.840 --> 00:59:26.039
<v Speaker 1>or introverted and unteachable. So how would someone go about

1234
00:59:26.119 --> 00:59:28.800
<v Speaker 1>learning and training to be an optimist and what's the

1235
00:59:28.880 --> 00:59:33.360
<v Speaker 1>relationship there? Also, is there a relationship between happiness and

1236
00:59:34.000 --> 00:59:39.280
<v Speaker 1>emotional or just like IQ intelligence, I feel like there's

1237
00:59:39.320 --> 00:59:41.400
<v Speaker 1>some badge of like if you're unhappy, it must mean

1238
00:59:41.400 --> 00:59:43.519
<v Speaker 1>that you know more and therefore you're smarter.

1239
00:59:45.239 --> 00:59:47.559
<v Speaker 2>That's interesting. I don't know of any data that have

1240
00:59:47.840 --> 00:59:50.599
<v Speaker 2>specifically at IQ and happiness. My guess is there's probably

1241
00:59:50.639 --> 00:59:52.920
<v Speaker 2>not the relationship that you're looking at, but there is

1242
00:59:52.960 --> 00:59:56.159
<v Speaker 2>definitely a relationship between happiness and optimism. Obviously, I think

1243
00:59:56.280 --> 00:59:59.239
<v Speaker 2>sort of optimism is sort of part of our general

1244
00:59:59.280 --> 01:00:02.039
<v Speaker 2>happy life. And the good news according to based on

1245
01:00:02.039 --> 01:00:04.559
<v Speaker 2>this question, is like you can in fact learn these

1246
01:00:04.639 --> 01:00:06.440
<v Speaker 2>kinds of things. You know, the fastest thing to do

1247
01:00:06.880 --> 01:00:09.280
<v Speaker 2>is really try to just train your brain to pay

1248
01:00:09.320 --> 01:00:12.480
<v Speaker 2>attention to good things out there. Our minds are naturally

1249
01:00:12.519 --> 01:00:15.199
<v Speaker 2>tuned to negative things, you know, the yucky stuff out there,

1250
01:00:15.239 --> 01:00:18.920
<v Speaker 2>the griping. But we can tune our minds towards positive things.

1251
01:00:18.960 --> 01:00:22.840
<v Speaker 2>You can focus on what you're grateful for. Another practice

1252
01:00:22.840 --> 01:00:24.719
<v Speaker 2>that I've been into lately, which I talk about on

1253
01:00:24.800 --> 01:00:28.599
<v Speaker 2>the podcast, is focusing on delights. Sometimes gratitude can feel

1254
01:00:28.719 --> 01:00:30.480
<v Speaker 2>sort of cheesy, but you can just focus on like

1255
01:00:30.719 --> 01:00:33.119
<v Speaker 2>things that are delightful out there, you know, like you know,

1256
01:00:33.119 --> 01:00:35.960
<v Speaker 2>the sunshine and like that's delightful. The fact that coffee exists,

1257
01:00:36.079 --> 01:00:39.000
<v Speaker 2>that's delightful. You know, I don't know, some funny video

1258
01:00:39.039 --> 01:00:41.639
<v Speaker 2>on the internet that's delightful, right, Like training your brain

1259
01:00:42.079 --> 01:00:45.440
<v Speaker 2>towards things that you really enjoy that kind of cause delight.

1260
01:00:45.880 --> 01:00:50.639
<v Speaker 1>Okay, So if the term gratitude journaling conjures up visions

1261
01:00:50.679 --> 01:00:54.840
<v Speaker 1>of sickly sweetened camera lt, just opt the term delights,

1262
01:00:55.000 --> 01:00:58.679
<v Speaker 1>which is just like a straightforward good cup of coffee. Actually,

1263
01:00:58.679 --> 01:01:01.719
<v Speaker 1>for years, my husband Jared has a short taally of

1264
01:01:01.800 --> 01:01:06.880
<v Speaker 1>favorite things. His are lavender soap, coffee, and sandwiches. And

1265
01:01:06.920 --> 01:01:09.079
<v Speaker 1>he says just thinking of those three things and letting

1266
01:01:09.119 --> 01:01:11.920
<v Speaker 1>his mind wander to more helped him during a really

1267
01:01:11.960 --> 01:01:16.360
<v Speaker 1>deep depression. So gratitude journaling, delights, whatever you want to

1268
01:01:16.400 --> 01:01:19.679
<v Speaker 1>call it. Jarrett calls his his do Not Kill Yourself List,

1269
01:01:19.960 --> 01:01:22.639
<v Speaker 1>which is kind of like the Miami Cola Bang Energy

1270
01:01:22.719 --> 01:01:27.239
<v Speaker 1>drink of a gratitude practice branding. Would you agree that's

1271
01:01:27.280 --> 01:01:28.400
<v Speaker 1>my favorite Bang flavor?

1272
01:01:29.000 --> 01:01:36.480
<v Speaker 2>Is it really Miami Cola that's on the list. Again,

1273
01:01:36.639 --> 01:01:39.159
<v Speaker 2>your brain is going to focus on whatever you give

1274
01:01:39.199 --> 01:01:41.840
<v Speaker 2>it data for. So if you give it data about

1275
01:01:41.880 --> 01:01:44.360
<v Speaker 2>things that you're feeling really grateful about or that are

1276
01:01:44.360 --> 01:01:46.920
<v Speaker 2>really delightful, that's what your brain's going to start noticing.

1277
01:01:47.000 --> 01:01:49.599
<v Speaker 1>I love that you just are. You're constantly filling evidence

1278
01:01:49.639 --> 01:01:52.360
<v Speaker 1>folders for like things are shitty and things are good.

1279
01:01:52.360 --> 01:01:54.559
<v Speaker 1>It's like what are you putting in your evidence folder?

1280
01:01:54.639 --> 01:01:55.199
<v Speaker 1>Pretty much?

1281
01:01:56.400 --> 01:01:58.840
<v Speaker 2>And it's not just like you know what you're picking,

1282
01:01:58.880 --> 01:02:02.239
<v Speaker 2>it's like you're training your brain to look for that stuff.

1283
01:02:02.760 --> 01:02:06.440
<v Speaker 2>In my podcast, I interview this fantastic guest, Rossquay, who's

1284
01:02:06.840 --> 01:02:09.599
<v Speaker 2>a poet and an essays to is this book called

1285
01:02:09.599 --> 01:02:12.280
<v Speaker 2>the Book of Delights, And he decided that for every

1286
01:02:12.360 --> 01:02:14.559
<v Speaker 2>day for a year after his birthday, he would write

1287
01:02:14.559 --> 01:02:17.199
<v Speaker 2>an essay about something that delighted him. And he talks

1288
01:02:17.199 --> 01:02:19.239
<v Speaker 2>about how at first he was like really worried, like

1289
01:02:19.280 --> 01:02:21.280
<v Speaker 2>am I really going to find things that really delight me?

1290
01:02:21.639 --> 01:02:23.880
<v Speaker 2>And he said that, you know, even just a week in,

1291
01:02:24.400 --> 01:02:28.079
<v Speaker 2>like he'd kind of tuned his mind to find these things,

1292
01:02:28.280 --> 01:02:29.639
<v Speaker 2>you know, a walking down the street' be like, oh,

1293
01:02:29.639 --> 01:02:31.679
<v Speaker 2>that dude's T shirt is delightful, Like oh that like

1294
01:02:31.760 --> 01:02:34.679
<v Speaker 2>kat on the street is delightful. Like he just he

1295
01:02:34.760 --> 01:02:38.119
<v Speaker 2>just kind of shifted his perception and tuned his mind

1296
01:02:38.199 --> 01:02:40.119
<v Speaker 2>more towards the good things than the bad things. Our

1297
01:02:40.119 --> 01:02:43.360
<v Speaker 2>brains evolutionarily are naturally tuned towards the bad things. Make sense,

1298
01:02:43.360 --> 01:02:45.320
<v Speaker 2>you want to see the tiger that's going to jump

1299
01:02:45.360 --> 01:02:48.679
<v Speaker 2>out at you. But we can control that tuning and

1300
01:02:48.880 --> 01:02:51.800
<v Speaker 2>just by you know, like taking some explicit work to

1301
01:02:51.800 --> 01:02:53.880
<v Speaker 2>pay attention to the things we're grateful for, to the

1302
01:02:53.920 --> 01:02:55.960
<v Speaker 2>things that delight us, to the good stuff out there.

1303
01:02:56.079 --> 01:02:58.559
<v Speaker 1>So yes, Ross Gae the Book of Delights and again

1304
01:02:58.639 --> 01:03:01.559
<v Speaker 1>check out Neil has reached his word and his osomology episode.

1305
01:03:01.719 --> 01:03:06.119
<v Speaker 1>Another fun project. Start a private Twitter just for yourself

1306
01:03:06.159 --> 01:03:09.480
<v Speaker 1>and chronicle delights of your own or a private Instagram

1307
01:03:09.480 --> 01:03:13.400
<v Speaker 1>account or something. Also, I should note that in recording

1308
01:03:13.559 --> 01:03:15.440
<v Speaker 1>this episode, the internet dropped out a few times, so

1309
01:03:15.440 --> 01:03:18.079
<v Speaker 1>I had to email doctor Santos a new link during it,

1310
01:03:18.119 --> 01:03:21.679
<v Speaker 1>and she has an auto reply message explaining that she

1311
01:03:21.760 --> 01:03:23.840
<v Speaker 1>may not write back, and it explains that she gets

1312
01:03:23.880 --> 01:03:27.119
<v Speaker 1>more than one hundred emails a day and it reads

1313
01:03:27.159 --> 01:03:29.840
<v Speaker 1>in part quote keeping up with that many questions slash

1314
01:03:29.960 --> 01:03:32.599
<v Speaker 1>requests meant that I was hurting my own time affluence

1315
01:03:32.880 --> 01:03:35.159
<v Speaker 1>and having less time for the important projects I really

1316
01:03:35.199 --> 01:03:37.840
<v Speaker 1>should be prioritizing. And so I am currently trying my

1317
01:03:37.880 --> 01:03:41.039
<v Speaker 1>own personal wellbeing experiment. I'm going to try to practice

1318
01:03:41.039 --> 01:03:43.039
<v Speaker 1>what I preach and reduce the amount of time I

1319
01:03:43.119 --> 01:03:45.719
<v Speaker 1>usually spend on email. Thanks for your understanding as I

1320
01:03:45.719 --> 01:03:48.800
<v Speaker 1>try not to overcommit and protect myself from burning out.

1321
01:03:49.119 --> 01:03:49.320
<v Speaker 2>Oh.

1322
01:03:50.079 --> 01:03:53.440
<v Speaker 1>I love her totally solid major props for walking her talk.

1323
01:03:53.719 --> 01:03:56.679
<v Speaker 1>She is the best, and in respecting her time, we

1324
01:03:56.719 --> 01:03:59.639
<v Speaker 1>wrapped it up. Last listener question, I saved it because

1325
01:03:59.679 --> 01:04:03.880
<v Speaker 1>it was juicy. Oh, it's so juicy. Bailey Ricketts wants

1326
01:04:03.880 --> 01:04:05.599
<v Speaker 1>to know how do we find a balance between being

1327
01:04:05.639 --> 01:04:07.840
<v Speaker 1>happy and living in the moment while acknowledging all the

1328
01:04:07.920 --> 01:04:10.719
<v Speaker 1>hurt and suffering going on in the world, essentially guilt

1329
01:04:10.760 --> 01:04:13.000
<v Speaker 1>over being happy when you know that there's a lot

1330
01:04:13.000 --> 01:04:14.800
<v Speaker 1>of bad shit out there, how do we do it?

1331
01:04:14.960 --> 01:04:17.800
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, tough. I mean, this is like a really

1332
01:04:17.880 --> 01:04:19.880
<v Speaker 2>real one, right, because there's a lot of bad stuff

1333
01:04:19.920 --> 01:04:23.159
<v Speaker 2>out there right now, you know, structural racism, horrible global pandemic,

1334
01:04:23.199 --> 01:04:26.280
<v Speaker 2>you know, like the list goes on. So, I mean,

1335
01:04:26.320 --> 01:04:29.800
<v Speaker 2>I think one thing that helps me is recognizing that

1336
01:04:30.440 --> 01:04:32.920
<v Speaker 2>if I want to be the kind of person who's

1337
01:04:32.920 --> 01:04:35.079
<v Speaker 2>an ally for all that stuff, all the yucky stuff

1338
01:04:35.079 --> 01:04:36.960
<v Speaker 2>in the world, who wants to have the resilience to

1339
01:04:37.000 --> 01:04:39.320
<v Speaker 2>fix it, I'm not going to be able to do

1340
01:04:39.360 --> 01:04:42.960
<v Speaker 2>that if I'm incredibly anxious and overwhelmed and burnt out.

1341
01:04:43.239 --> 01:04:44.880
<v Speaker 2>I'm going to be able to do that best if

1342
01:04:44.920 --> 01:04:47.199
<v Speaker 2>I'm really in a happy state, if I'm really kind

1343
01:04:47.239 --> 01:04:49.159
<v Speaker 2>of feeling good, like if I kind of have put

1344
01:04:49.159 --> 01:04:52.159
<v Speaker 2>my own oxygen mask on first. Right, And in fact,

1345
01:04:52.159 --> 01:04:54.320
<v Speaker 2>there's evidence that so many of the things we were

1346
01:04:54.320 --> 01:04:57.800
<v Speaker 2>talking about that are parts of a happy life help

1347
01:04:57.920 --> 01:05:00.559
<v Speaker 2>for doing hard things. My favorite one is that people

1348
01:05:00.559 --> 01:05:03.519
<v Speaker 2>who are grateful are better at what's called self regulation.

1349
01:05:03.599 --> 01:05:05.760
<v Speaker 2>They're better at, you know, doing the hard thing today

1350
01:05:05.760 --> 01:05:08.000
<v Speaker 2>to help their future self, whether that's you know, saving

1351
01:05:08.039 --> 01:05:11.360
<v Speaker 2>for retirement or eating healthier, or you know, putting work

1352
01:05:11.400 --> 01:05:14.239
<v Speaker 2>into hard scary problems like that just require a lot

1353
01:05:14.239 --> 01:05:17.480
<v Speaker 2>of hard, scary work. And so for me, it's made

1354
01:05:17.519 --> 01:05:19.280
<v Speaker 2>me feel like if I want the world to be

1355
01:05:19.320 --> 01:05:21.880
<v Speaker 2>a better place, I can't afford to be down in

1356
01:05:21.920 --> 01:05:24.519
<v Speaker 2>the dumps, you know, freaking out about it. I really

1357
01:05:24.559 --> 01:05:28.199
<v Speaker 2>need to put energy into doing these practices for myself

1358
01:05:28.519 --> 01:05:30.599
<v Speaker 2>so that I'll be, you know, hopefully one of the

1359
01:05:30.599 --> 01:05:32.800
<v Speaker 2>people that has the bandwidth to help with some of

1360
01:05:32.840 --> 01:05:35.360
<v Speaker 2>this stuff. So far from feeling guilty, I feel like

1361
01:05:35.360 --> 01:05:37.599
<v Speaker 2>we might want to feel guilty for the opposite thing, right,

1362
01:05:37.960 --> 01:05:40.119
<v Speaker 2>you know, do what we can to kind of fix things.

1363
01:05:40.119 --> 01:05:43.320
<v Speaker 2>It really does require not just working on these structures,

1364
01:05:43.320 --> 01:05:45.599
<v Speaker 2>but working on our emotions so that we have the

1365
01:05:45.639 --> 01:05:48.239
<v Speaker 2>bandwidth to fix those structures that might be messed up.

1366
01:05:48.679 --> 01:05:53.000
<v Speaker 1>That just I'm sure gave so many people permission to

1367
01:05:53.039 --> 01:05:55.880
<v Speaker 1>pursue happiness who feel maybe guilty about it. And I'm

1368
01:05:55.920 --> 01:05:59.159
<v Speaker 1>by so many people I mean me specifically, but no,

1369
01:05:59.280 --> 01:06:02.599
<v Speaker 1>that's really help. Well, last two questions I asked before

1370
01:06:02.599 --> 01:06:06.280
<v Speaker 1>we go, worst thing about your job, worst thing about

1371
01:06:06.280 --> 01:06:09.000
<v Speaker 1>being at model of doologist and the best thing.

1372
01:06:10.360 --> 01:06:12.119
<v Speaker 2>There's lots and lots of good things, but you know,

1373
01:06:12.159 --> 01:06:15.360
<v Speaker 2>if I have to shift towards negativity, you know, I

1374
01:06:15.400 --> 01:06:19.000
<v Speaker 2>would say the hardest thing is that, you know, they're

1375
01:06:20.039 --> 01:06:22.920
<v Speaker 2>one of the things I really try to pay attention to,

1376
01:06:23.199 --> 01:06:26.480
<v Speaker 2>is is this phenomenon of time affluence, this subjective sense

1377
01:06:26.519 --> 01:06:28.719
<v Speaker 2>that I have a lot of free time and being

1378
01:06:28.719 --> 01:06:31.440
<v Speaker 2>a happiness guru, especially in an age where there's a

1379
01:06:31.440 --> 01:06:33.760
<v Speaker 2>lot of bad stuff going on in a global pandemic,

1380
01:06:34.000 --> 01:06:35.719
<v Speaker 2>it keeps me pretty busy because you know, a lot

1381
01:06:35.719 --> 01:06:37.760
<v Speaker 2>of people want advice, a lot of people want help,

1382
01:06:38.039 --> 01:06:39.760
<v Speaker 2>and that means I have to put a lot of

1383
01:06:39.760 --> 01:06:42.639
<v Speaker 2>work into protect my time. So the hardest thing is

1384
01:06:42.679 --> 01:06:46.239
<v Speaker 2>protecting my time in the midst of everything else going on.

1385
01:06:47.079 --> 01:06:49.559
<v Speaker 1>I can totally understand that I just got your auto applied.

1386
01:06:49.599 --> 01:06:51.880
<v Speaker 1>That was like yo, I get like a one hundred

1387
01:06:51.880 --> 01:06:54.519
<v Speaker 1>emails a day, thank you so much. But I got

1388
01:06:54.519 --> 01:06:55.960
<v Speaker 1>to stick to my principal here.

1389
01:06:56.079 --> 01:06:58.679
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And that's hard, right, because you know, I get

1390
01:06:58.679 --> 01:07:00.679
<v Speaker 2>into my mox. I'm like, oh, that listener has this

1391
01:07:00.719 --> 01:07:02.440
<v Speaker 2>really cool thing to say, or that student has this

1392
01:07:02.480 --> 01:07:05.400
<v Speaker 2>really cool question. But I also know that if I

1393
01:07:05.519 --> 01:07:07.880
<v Speaker 2>answer all those that means I'm not spending time with

1394
01:07:07.920 --> 01:07:09.559
<v Speaker 2>the people I care about, and I'm not just having

1395
01:07:09.599 --> 01:07:13.239
<v Speaker 2>time to meditate an exercise. So it's hard prioritizing the

1396
01:07:13.320 --> 01:07:16.000
<v Speaker 2>right stuff. But time affluence is definitely something I need

1397
01:07:16.000 --> 01:07:17.320
<v Speaker 2>to work on prioritize.

1398
01:07:17.360 --> 01:07:20.840
<v Speaker 1>I never heard those words before, Butler loved them. Best

1399
01:07:20.880 --> 01:07:23.559
<v Speaker 1>thing about your job, best thing about your career.

1400
01:07:25.000 --> 01:07:27.719
<v Speaker 2>Oh man, there's so many best things. I mean, I

1401
01:07:27.760 --> 01:07:29.760
<v Speaker 2>honestly think the best things are my students. I love

1402
01:07:29.800 --> 01:07:32.079
<v Speaker 2>them so much. I love interacting with them. They teach

1403
01:07:32.119 --> 01:07:34.440
<v Speaker 2>me so much, and I'm so privileged to get to

1404
01:07:34.480 --> 01:07:35.000
<v Speaker 2>work with them.

1405
01:07:35.119 --> 01:07:38.320
<v Speaker 1>That's great. I'm I am so happy to talk to you.

1406
01:07:38.360 --> 01:07:41.280
<v Speaker 1>I have been a fangirl for a year. So ask

1407
01:07:41.480 --> 01:07:45.480
<v Speaker 1>smart people happy questions or bummer questions. They are wonderful

1408
01:07:45.840 --> 01:07:48.960
<v Speaker 1>and they're great at sharing their knowledge. Obviously, get more

1409
01:07:49.039 --> 01:07:51.719
<v Speaker 1>of doctor Lori Santos with her podcast at Happiness Lab.

1410
01:07:52.039 --> 01:07:54.679
<v Speaker 1>Her socials are linked in the show notes. She is

1411
01:07:54.800 --> 01:07:58.159
<v Speaker 1>great if you can take her course, take it. It's

1412
01:07:58.159 --> 01:08:01.119
<v Speaker 1>also available on Coursera for free, so look for that.

1413
01:08:01.280 --> 01:08:03.000
<v Speaker 1>I will link all of those on my website too,

1414
01:08:03.320 --> 01:08:06.360
<v Speaker 1>which is at aliward dot com slash ologies. We are

1415
01:08:06.480 --> 01:08:09.480
<v Speaker 1>at ali Ward with one l on Twitter and Instagram.

1416
01:08:09.480 --> 01:08:13.400
<v Speaker 1>We're also at ologies on Instagram and Twitter. Find us

1417
01:08:13.400 --> 01:08:16.600
<v Speaker 1>there be our friends. Thank you to Aaron Talbert, who

1418
01:08:16.880 --> 01:08:21.319
<v Speaker 1>moderates and admin's Theologies podcast Facebook group and is excellent

1419
01:08:21.359 --> 01:08:23.920
<v Speaker 1>at that. Thank you Shannon Feltus and Bonnie Dutch who

1420
01:08:24.159 --> 01:08:27.039
<v Speaker 1>are of the podcast You Are That Comedy podcast and

1421
01:08:27.239 --> 01:08:30.439
<v Speaker 1>they manage our merchant ologiesimerch dot com. Thank you Emily

1422
01:08:30.520 --> 01:08:33.640
<v Speaker 1>White of the Wardery. She is a professional transcriptionist who

1423
01:08:33.680 --> 01:08:37.640
<v Speaker 1>makes transcriptions available. She's great. Hire her, She's wonderful. Caleb

1424
01:08:37.640 --> 01:08:40.720
<v Speaker 1>Patten bleeps our episodes. Those are available on our website

1425
01:08:40.720 --> 01:08:43.199
<v Speaker 1>for free. The links in the show note. We also

1426
01:08:43.239 --> 01:08:46.359
<v Speaker 1>have smologies, which are episodes we put out once every

1427
01:08:46.359 --> 01:08:49.159
<v Speaker 1>two weeks. They are cut down versions of classic ones

1428
01:08:49.159 --> 01:08:52.119
<v Speaker 1>that have already ran. They are cleaned up and kid friendly.

1429
01:08:52.520 --> 01:08:54.760
<v Speaker 1>They're ready for the classroom. Solo persmologies too if you

1430
01:08:54.800 --> 01:08:58.840
<v Speaker 1>have smologites. Thank you to Noel Dilworth and Susan Hale

1431
01:08:58.880 --> 01:09:00.800
<v Speaker 1>for helping me take care of all the Ologi's business

1432
01:09:00.800 --> 01:09:03.319
<v Speaker 1>behind the scenes. Thank you to Stephen Ray Morris and

1433
01:09:03.439 --> 01:09:06.680
<v Speaker 1>Zeke Rodriguez Thomas who are also working on Somemologies and Wonderful.

1434
01:09:06.680 --> 01:09:11.399
<v Speaker 1>Thank you to editor Jared Sleeper, and also thank you

1435
01:09:11.439 --> 01:09:14.319
<v Speaker 1>to Gremy. We are actually recording this in the car

1436
01:09:14.520 --> 01:09:17.079
<v Speaker 1>as I'm on my way up to see my pop

1437
01:09:17.119 --> 01:09:19.840
<v Speaker 1>for his birthday, and I recorded this at five in

1438
01:09:19.840 --> 01:09:21.359
<v Speaker 1>the morning this morning before I hit the road, and

1439
01:09:21.399 --> 01:09:23.039
<v Speaker 1>then I realized that my mic gain was all the

1440
01:09:23.079 --> 01:09:25.279
<v Speaker 1>way down, so I had to rerecorded on side of

1441
01:09:25.279 --> 01:09:29.079
<v Speaker 1>the road, which is what we're doing. Ehoo. That's one

1442
01:09:29.119 --> 01:09:31.359
<v Speaker 1>secret of the episode. The other secret is, you know

1443
01:09:31.399 --> 01:09:33.760
<v Speaker 1>how sometimes it'll be like, if you need to clean

1444
01:09:33.800 --> 01:09:36.560
<v Speaker 1>a screen, just use a microfibercloth, and you're like, yeah, well,

1445
01:09:36.600 --> 01:09:38.960
<v Speaker 1>what do I use to clean it with? Though, like windex,

1446
01:09:39.000 --> 01:09:40.880
<v Speaker 1>what are we talking here? Water? What do I use?

1447
01:09:40.920 --> 01:09:45.039
<v Speaker 1>At the microfibercloth? So I just tried just the microfibercloth

1448
01:09:45.239 --> 01:09:48.119
<v Speaker 1>like you're supposed to use, and it cleaned the shit

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01:09:48.199 --> 01:09:51.560
<v Speaker 1>out of my laptop, Like my monitor's never been so clean.

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01:09:51.760 --> 01:09:54.399
<v Speaker 1>All he did was use one of those microfiber too

1451
01:09:54.399 --> 01:09:57.520
<v Speaker 1>soft on your hands cloth and apparently they're good at

1452
01:09:57.560 --> 01:10:04.560
<v Speaker 1>what they're supposed to be used for, so go figure, okay, bye, right. Pacodermatology,

1453
01:10:04.600 --> 01:10:16.640
<v Speaker 1>hobiology or doe zoology, lithology, zoonology, meteorology, cool peratology, nathology, zeriology, selenology.

1454
01:10:25.800 --> 01:10:27.560
<v Speaker 1>This is a sound of my dog drinking water in

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01:10:27.600 --> 01:10:27.880
<v Speaker 1>the car