Speaker 1: Doctor Jen episode? Is this two fifty?
Speaker 2: Yes? Is it happy? Two hundred and fifty episodes? Clant my.
Speaker 1: Crazy to me? I know, wow, well happy to fifty
Speaker 1: to you?
Speaker 2: Yes, and I was trying. It's just so crazy. I
Speaker 2: literally can't remember which year we started. I think it
Speaker 2: was twenty seventeen, and that means at the end of
Speaker 2: this month, it'll be our seven year anniversary of doing
Speaker 2: this show.
Speaker 3: God who knew that us starting a podcast thirty eight years.
Speaker 2: Ago would lead us to exactly where we are, which
Speaker 2: is pretty close to where we started.
Speaker 3: Dozens of listeners who hang on our very very breath. Yes,
Speaker 3: exactly to the eleven of you, we say thank you
Speaker 3: so much.
Speaker 2: I know you're particuling for listening. We do appreciate it.
Speaker 3: I'm down plan we're doing pretty darn well. I haven't
Speaker 3: checked our stats, but that should probably be my homework
Speaker 3: before next week.
Speaker 1: Do that now?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 3: I mean, at one point it was on two to
Speaker 3: three thousand a month, and that's not huge, but it
Speaker 3: was that was a few years ago.
Speaker 1: I'm hoping we've grown since then.
Speaker 2: And if not, well, then I know again, really what
Speaker 2: are we doing here? Keep coming back? Yeah? So okay,
Speaker 2: So you know, I have been I can't remember how
Speaker 2: much I've shared on this show or not, but so
Speaker 2: I have been getting more involved with this organization that
Speaker 2: I work with called YPO Young President's Organization, but young
Speaker 2: meaning under fifty. Yeah, and they're high end. You know,
Speaker 2: they're very successful CEOs and C level executives in the
Speaker 2: US and around the world that make it at a
Speaker 2: young age. And I've gotten into this network. I do
Speaker 2: events for them. I do Valentine's events and other such things.
Speaker 2: Have done some in Europe, have done some virtually like
Speaker 2: even in a group in Tanzania, once in Dubai and
Speaker 2: so and most recently last Paul, I got trained to
Speaker 2: be able to do small group facilitation for them for
Speaker 2: something that they have a called form within it. Anyway,
Speaker 2: So I did a four hour forum basics training yesterday
Speaker 2: online virtual. So we had people they could have been
Speaker 2: from around the world, but most of them were like
Speaker 2: it was European and US and Canada, and there was
Speaker 2: eight folks that were new I'm going to be joining
Speaker 2: their first forum or at least Yeah. Anyway, and so
Speaker 2: at the end it's a lot about vulnerability and authenticity
Speaker 2: and how to open up the new ways and share
Speaker 2: your emotions in new ways. And this was you know,
Speaker 2: a group of strangers, and it was really lovely, and
Speaker 2: so I ended they were just they were wonderful, wonderful participants.
Speaker 2: It's a lot of teaching and it's exhausting for me,
Speaker 2: but their participation of vulnerability was lovely. And I ended
Speaker 2: by reading this poem and somebody you know sent it
Speaker 2: to some listener of I'm on and I adapted it
Speaker 2: a little bit, but I wanted to read it out
Speaker 2: and see what you think about this in terms of
Speaker 2: particularly in relationships.
Speaker 1: Okay, So.
Speaker 2: To laugh is to risk appearing the fool. To weep
Speaker 2: is to risk appearing sentimental. To reach out for another
Speaker 2: is to risk involvement. To expose feelings is to risk
Speaker 2: exposing your true self. To place your dreams, your ideas
Speaker 2: before the crowd is to risk their ridicule. To love
Speaker 2: is to risk being not loved in return. To hope
Speaker 2: is to risk despair. To try is to risk failure.
Speaker 2: But risks must be taken because the greatest hazard in
Speaker 2: life is to risk nothing. The person who risks nothing
Speaker 2: may avoid suffering and sorrow that they cannot learn feel change, grow, love,
Speaker 2: or fully live. Changed by their certitudes, they're enslaved to themselves.
Speaker 2: They have forfeited their freedom. Only a person who risks
Speaker 2: is truly free?
Speaker 1: Is that it?
Speaker 2: Yep?
Speaker 3: That's terrible. No, bottle it all up inside. Don't expose yourself.
Speaker 1: Are you kidding me? Love ain't worth it these experiences
Speaker 1: I move? Does you kill your younger?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 1: Honestly, that was absolutely brilliant.
Speaker 3: And I'm going to tell you right now, I actually
Speaker 3: listened to every word, even with my add and two,
Speaker 3: and there were two things that stood out the to
Speaker 3: to not try, wait, to not try because afraid of failure?
Speaker 1: What was it like? How I forgot it already? Dang it?
Speaker 1: There was two places in there that I really liked
Speaker 1: a lot.
Speaker 2: Yeah. At the end, well, I said, at the end,
Speaker 2: like the person who risks nothing may avoid suffering and sorrow,
Speaker 2: but they cannot learn, feel, change, grow love, or fully live.
Speaker 1: Yeah that you know what? Listen? That is brilliant, And
Speaker 1: I say risk it all.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's right, Yeah, it's I mean, and it's scary.
Speaker 2: I mean yeah. So it was just and I actually
Speaker 2: choked up reading it out to these folks onion. We're
Speaker 2: on zoom, and I actually could surprise. Halfway through I
Speaker 2: started choking up because I mean people really had been
Speaker 2: so vulnerable in this group and really got the you know,
Speaker 2: the core of the training and what it was about
Speaker 2: and the forums that they're going to be stepping into.
Speaker 2: So it was just, yeah, I don't know, it was
Speaker 2: really moving to me. But so, what do you think
Speaker 2: what stood out to you as the risks you think
Speaker 2: are most important to take, like in a marriage and
Speaker 2: in a long term relationship.
Speaker 3: Well, I love dollar, I love to show your feelings.
Speaker 3: And again I'm not saying it exactly the way you did,
Speaker 3: but I remember a lot of the the the message,
Speaker 3: just not the actual perfect content delivery. Yeah, but you know,
Speaker 3: to to not love or something like that.
Speaker 2: Is to love is to risk not being loved.
Speaker 3: And yes, and I will tell you even out like
Speaker 3: even before I got married, Like, I can't tell you
Speaker 3: how many times I was not willing to take that
Speaker 3: risk and the what ifs. Again, I wouldn't change anything now,
Speaker 3: but back in the day, I can't tell you how
Speaker 3: many times that I just even just for the just
Speaker 3: for the risk of it, just for the chance, just
Speaker 3: for the courage that it takes.
Speaker 1: You know, why couldn't die?
Speaker 3: Why didn't I And I can tell you now it
Speaker 3: was fear of not being loved back, fear of rejection.
Speaker 3: So that stood out to me, and in marriage it
Speaker 3: still stands out to me because look, let's just talk
Speaker 3: about sex for a second, right, Yeah, you know, for
Speaker 3: me to reach out to my wife, maybe other guys
Speaker 3: feel this way, Maybe other women feel this way.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 3: You know, maybe things aren't going perfectly well in that
Speaker 3: arena in your marriage and you're afraid to reach out
Speaker 3: and try for that try for that physical intimacy. I
Speaker 3: realize there's many other ways to be intimate. I'm just
Speaker 3: using that as the example.
Speaker 2: I don't know, but I mean sexual intimacy is the
Speaker 2: piece of the puzzle, right, that's interesting. So to me,
Speaker 2: that kind of falls into like the reason one of
Speaker 2: the reasons that I find folks in long term relations,
Speaker 2: especially a higher desire person, and they stop trying.
Speaker 1: And that's exactly my point.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I think it's hope, because to hope is
Speaker 2: to risk despair, and I think it's I mean, there's
Speaker 2: multiple reasons, but I think of it as it's easier
Speaker 2: to not hope anymore because it hurts so much, yep,
Speaker 2: to open yourself to hope and then to feel despair again.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean that's and that's the thing, you know,
Speaker 3: and then you go down this whole big rabbit hole.
Speaker 3: I think because I've been having conversations with a friend
Speaker 3: of mine who's going through a little bit of that,
Speaker 3: or he was he's not actually with his wife anymore.
Speaker 3: But the point was that he, you know, his his thing.
Speaker 3: He would say to me, was, you know, here we are,
Speaker 3: we going on these date nights, but you know, are
Speaker 3: they really date nights? If I know guaranteed at the
Speaker 3: end of that night, nothing's going to happen. After the
Speaker 3: bill's paid, that's it. It's over dates, over even. And
Speaker 3: what he pointed out was I've stopped trying. I haven't
Speaker 3: tried for a long time because it is constant rejection.
Speaker 3: And it made me kind of sad because I went
Speaker 3: and your poem brought that back into my head because
Speaker 3: I haven't actually discussed this with this friend of mine
Speaker 3: in probably about three four months, maybe five, But it
Speaker 3: makes me want to contact him again and say, hey, dude,
Speaker 3: how you doing. But anyway, there's a risk and all
Speaker 3: of that I think.
Speaker 1: I mean, listen, it is with you, your.
Speaker 2: Risk of starting a fight and creating more of a distance.
Speaker 2: But I mean the big picture is I mean, the
Speaker 2: problem is the more of these risks that we don't
Speaker 2: take in the long run, it creates more and more
Speaker 2: of a barrier between couples because it builds, it builds
Speaker 2: resentment and distance, and that's harder. I mean, the more
Speaker 2: it grows, the harder it is to ever recover from that.
Speaker 3: Well, I've got a friend who I gotta be careful here,
Speaker 3: no names, no, I'm trying to give us a little
Speaker 3: information about. So I have a friend of a friend
Speaker 3: of mine who this person and their husband I don't
Speaker 3: even know if she's done this yet, is going to
Speaker 3: present divorce papers to her husband. And the last we
Speaker 3: talked was probably a month or maybe five weeks ago.
Speaker 1: I don't know if it's happened since then.
Speaker 3: But because it's a friend of a friend, that's who
Speaker 3: I'm going through. And this friend of a friend knows
Speaker 3: I'm aware of this, by the way. But the point
Speaker 3: is the conversation that the information I got to your
Speaker 3: point about, you know, putting this wall up, and it
Speaker 3: gets harder and harder and harder. They've not been intimate
Speaker 3: physically in over six years, and they are basically roommates.
Speaker 3: Those are the words of the friend telling me this
Speaker 3: from the woman who's married and just listening to that
Speaker 3: and listening to this poem, listening to you say how
Speaker 3: it's you know, harder herd. I like you to get
Speaker 3: to that point.
Speaker 1: I think. I think you're right. You stop taking risk
Speaker 1: at all.
Speaker 3: It becomes just like, hey, this is just the way
Speaker 3: it is, and it's more comfortable this way. I may
Speaker 3: be disappointed and I want it to change, but I
Speaker 3: am not willing to risk diving into this uncomfortable situation
Speaker 3: to try and fix it. Let's just keep its status quo.
Speaker 2: And you're right, they and so often that that's what
Speaker 2: leads to cheating. Oh, I can't tell you right at
Speaker 2: that point.
Speaker 3: Yep, that does not surprise me at all at all. Yeah,
Speaker 3: so I don't know what about you. I mean you
Speaker 3: to see with you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So it's funny. I was just thinking about this
Speaker 2: because I because of having been in this line of
Speaker 2: work for so long, and like I said, really holding
Speaker 2: myself to a standard of practicing what I preach. Although
Speaker 2: you know, I was just thinking this morning about something
Speaker 2: an interaction with my boyfriend. I was like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 2: I definitely could have done that better. Well, more patience,
Speaker 2: a little more kindness, a little less reactivity, but all
Speaker 2: of that being said, you know, if I was to
Speaker 2: you know, with somebody, somebody that was in some sort
Speaker 2: of community or friendship with me or closest to me,
Speaker 2: and if I was to like laugh and they like
Speaker 2: treated me like I was a fool, or if I
Speaker 2: was to cry and they like reacted badly, or I
Speaker 2: was like looking at a bunch of these exposed my
Speaker 2: feelings and like was sort of mocked in some way,
Speaker 2: or like my ideas or my dreams. You know, I
Speaker 2: actually would get probably self righteous at this point of
Speaker 2: being like, why are you being an asshole? That was
Speaker 2: really rude what you just did. So because I feel
Speaker 2: so I guess I'm almost entitled, or I guess I'm
Speaker 2: just so. I mean, that sounds terrible to say it
Speaker 2: that way. That's kind of how it plays out. But
Speaker 2: I think the bigger picture around it is, I know
Speaker 2: those things are the best way to live life. I
Speaker 2: know those things like vulnerability takes courage, authenticity takes courage,
Speaker 2: and to share at with other people. And if people
Speaker 2: aren't responsible without emotionally and their own shit gets in
Speaker 2: the way, I call it out almost exclusively, or I
Speaker 2: would at least say well that was rude or like,
Speaker 2: oh that wasn't a very nice response. I mean, depending
Speaker 2: on the person, depends on how rude my response would be.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I just feel I do. And if you know,
Speaker 2: if I'm bringing up something with my boyfriend that I
Speaker 2: know is important to bring up and I know I'm
Speaker 2: being responsible and I'm bringing up and if he doesn't
Speaker 2: handle it well, I will absolutely be like whoa, whoa, whoa,
Speaker 2: Like what are you doing? I'm doing the like taking
Speaker 2: the higher ground here and being emotionally mature in our relationship.
Speaker 2: That response is not and he mostly then will be like,
Speaker 2: oh shit, you're right, and he's like, I'm sorry, dabes.
Speaker 2: So yeah, but you know, was I the same person
Speaker 2: fifteen years ago? No, not at all, you know, so
Speaker 2: much more fear. Yeah, I guess the thing is, Yeah,
Speaker 2: if I'm taking the risk, I feel almost righteous about
Speaker 2: it now. But I will not do it with everyone,
Speaker 2: you know, because they're not worth us, They're not worth
Speaker 2: our vulnerability there or they're not worthy of it in
Speaker 2: terms of we don't know that they know how to
Speaker 2: be responsible with it. But in terms of our you know, marriages,
Speaker 2: a long term relationships, yeah, I think it's super valuable.
Speaker 3: I will say. Well, I was going to ask again
Speaker 3: the name of that poem and did you already say this?
Speaker 1: Maybe you didn't. I missed it. Are you posting it?
Speaker 1: Did you post it?
Speaker 2: No? No, I didn't. It didn't have like a name
Speaker 2: on it. And I looked up a little bit of
Speaker 2: it and it said it's thought to be adapted, or
Speaker 2: that it thought that it's to be somebody's work, but
Speaker 2: I'm not sure. And then I did adapt it a
Speaker 2: little bit. Uh No, I'm just gonna I'm going to
Speaker 2: keep it from my stuff. I mean I might use
Speaker 2: it in a post.
Speaker 1: Wow, I sure love it.
Speaker 3: If you'd email it to me, And if you don't
Speaker 3: want me to share it, I won't because that.
Speaker 1: Was really good.
Speaker 2: Yeah, No, I definitely will. I just added a line
Speaker 2: at the end too, while we were talking, because it
Speaker 2: says only a person who risks is truly free, and
Speaker 2: then I added in and happy, so I could add.
Speaker 1: The very end, which I said, just a few minutes ago,
Speaker 1: risk it all, risk at all.
Speaker 2: I don't agree with that.
Speaker 1: What are you talking about everything in there? Risk it all?
Speaker 2: No, but I don't I would see that's the problem
Speaker 2: with stuff like this. But people like these beautiful poems
Speaker 2: and these beautiful buffs, they're simplifying it because there's places
Speaker 2: that you shouldn't risk because that's actually not smart to do. Well,
Speaker 2: it's not the right thing. Or how about a man
Speaker 2: and he's like a high level CEO and he's gonna
Speaker 2: risk at all for what he really believes in, and
Speaker 2: then he loses all the money and his family's fucked over.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, hmmm.
Speaker 3: Or a guy on the radio who doesn't want to
Speaker 3: lose his job and he keeps his mouth shut about
Speaker 3: a bunch of things so that he doesn't lose his job.
Speaker 2: Yeah, sorry, I know, I'm not supposed to curse when
Speaker 2: you're in studio. Sorry about that.
Speaker 1: Whatever, it's only three or four times.
Speaker 2: Although you know what this is more about the Although
Speaker 2: you know most of this is about emotional risks and
Speaker 2: sharing with others. But it's the last of the risk
Speaker 2: section says to try is to risk failure. That's the
Speaker 2: one that I was kind of referring to just there anyway.
Speaker 2: To me, it's all like the all or nothing approach
Speaker 2: to things I think is terrible. But what I like
Speaker 2: about this is giving people permission an awareness to have
Speaker 2: the courage to share some uncomfortable things.
Speaker 1: I like that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I like that, And it's not as catchy of
Speaker 2: a poem, but.
Speaker 1: I have some for next week that I wanted it.
Speaker 3: Uh, sex should last thirty five minutes, including fifteen minutes
Speaker 3: of four play and five minutes of cuddling, according to
Speaker 3: a poll of people online. We ran out of time
Speaker 3: today because I got to get to doing my show.
Speaker 3: But I just I literally as we talk, just emailed
Speaker 3: it to you. It's a short deal, but I thought
Speaker 3: that we might have some.
Speaker 1: Fun with that.
Speaker 2: Wait. Wait's a thirty five minutes and it's minus thirty
Speaker 2: five minus its twenty and then ten minutes for cuddling,
Speaker 2: So we've got ten minutes. They're saying of like intercourse,
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 1: You're going to have to read it.
Speaker 2: It's very well in terends of what they mean by
Speaker 2: four play, because unfortunately four play what's put into that
Speaker 2: is like women's specific pleasure is put into four play
Speaker 2: instead of the main show, so I'd like to know
Speaker 2: how to breaking down their categories. Okay, I am suspicious already.
Speaker 1: I am too.
Speaker 2: Well, Clint, I know you had got to go because
Speaker 2: you gotta get on air. So this was just a quickie,
Speaker 2: quickie for quickie for two fifty.
Speaker 1: Yes it was.
Speaker 2: I will send you this risk poem if anybody else
Speaker 2: wants to, just hit me up on social media somewhere
Speaker 2: or send me an email and I'm happy to send
Speaker 2: it to you.
Speaker 1: Love it, doctor Jenny.
Speaker 2: You have a good day, Clint, have a great one. Okay. Bye,