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<v Speaker 1>Doctor Jen episode? Is this two fifty?

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<v Speaker 2>Yes? Is it happy? Two hundred and fifty episodes? Clant my.

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<v Speaker 1>Crazy to me? I know, wow, well happy to fifty

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<v Speaker 1>to you?

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, and I was trying. It's just so crazy. I

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<v Speaker 2>literally can't remember which year we started. I think it

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<v Speaker 2>was twenty seventeen, and that means at the end of

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<v Speaker 2>this month, it'll be our seven year anniversary of doing

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<v Speaker 2>this show.

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<v Speaker 3>God who knew that us starting a podcast thirty eight years.

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<v Speaker 2>Ago would lead us to exactly where we are, which

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<v Speaker 2>is pretty close to where we started.

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<v Speaker 3>Dozens of listeners who hang on our very very breath. Yes,

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<v Speaker 3>exactly to the eleven of you, we say thank you

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<v Speaker 3>so much.

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<v Speaker 2>I know you're particuling for listening. We do appreciate it.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm down plan we're doing pretty darn well. I haven't

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<v Speaker 3>checked our stats, but that should probably be my homework

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<v Speaker 3>before next week.

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<v Speaker 1>Do that now?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I don't know.

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<v Speaker 3>I mean, at one point it was on two to

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<v Speaker 3>three thousand a month, and that's not huge, but it

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<v Speaker 3>was that was a few years ago.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm hoping we've grown since then.

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<v Speaker 2>And if not, well, then I know again, really what

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<v Speaker 2>are we doing here? Keep coming back? Yeah? So okay,

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<v Speaker 2>So you know, I have been I can't remember how

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<v Speaker 2>much I've shared on this show or not, but so

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<v Speaker 2>I have been getting more involved with this organization that

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<v Speaker 2>I work with called YPO Young President's Organization, but young

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<v Speaker 2>meaning under fifty. Yeah, and they're high end. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>they're very successful CEOs and C level executives in the

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<v Speaker 2>US and around the world that make it at a

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<v Speaker 2>young age. And I've gotten into this network. I do

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<v Speaker 2>events for them. I do Valentine's events and other such things.

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<v Speaker 2>Have done some in Europe, have done some virtually like

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<v Speaker 2>even in a group in Tanzania, once in Dubai and

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<v Speaker 2>so and most recently last Paul, I got trained to

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<v Speaker 2>be able to do small group facilitation for them for

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<v Speaker 2>something that they have a called form within it. Anyway,

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<v Speaker 2>So I did a four hour forum basics training yesterday

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<v Speaker 2>online virtual. So we had people they could have been

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<v Speaker 2>from around the world, but most of them were like

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<v Speaker 2>it was European and US and Canada, and there was

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<v Speaker 2>eight folks that were new I'm going to be joining

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<v Speaker 2>their first forum or at least Yeah. Anyway, and so

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<v Speaker 2>at the end it's a lot about vulnerability and authenticity

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<v Speaker 2>and how to open up the new ways and share

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<v Speaker 2>your emotions in new ways. And this was you know,

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<v Speaker 2>a group of strangers, and it was really lovely, and

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<v Speaker 2>so I ended they were just they were wonderful, wonderful participants.

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<v Speaker 2>It's a lot of teaching and it's exhausting for me,

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<v Speaker 2>but their participation of vulnerability was lovely. And I ended

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<v Speaker 2>by reading this poem and somebody you know sent it

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<v Speaker 2>to some listener of I'm on and I adapted it

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<v Speaker 2>a little bit, but I wanted to read it out

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<v Speaker 2>and see what you think about this in terms of

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<v Speaker 2>particularly in relationships.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, So.

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<v Speaker 2>To laugh is to risk appearing the fool. To weep

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<v Speaker 2>is to risk appearing sentimental. To reach out for another

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<v Speaker 2>is to risk involvement. To expose feelings is to risk

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<v Speaker 2>exposing your true self. To place your dreams, your ideas

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<v Speaker 2>before the crowd is to risk their ridicule. To love

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<v Speaker 2>is to risk being not loved in return. To hope

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<v Speaker 2>is to risk despair. To try is to risk failure.

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<v Speaker 2>But risks must be taken because the greatest hazard in

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<v Speaker 2>life is to risk nothing. The person who risks nothing

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<v Speaker 2>may avoid suffering and sorrow that they cannot learn feel change, grow, love,

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<v Speaker 2>or fully live. Changed by their certitudes, they're enslaved to themselves.

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<v Speaker 2>They have forfeited their freedom. Only a person who risks

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<v Speaker 2>is truly free?

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<v Speaker 1>Is that it?

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<v Speaker 2>Yep?

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<v Speaker 3>That's terrible. No, bottle it all up inside. Don't expose yourself.

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<v Speaker 1>Are you kidding me? Love ain't worth it these experiences

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<v Speaker 1>I move? Does you kill your younger?

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<v Speaker 2>No?

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<v Speaker 1>Honestly, that was absolutely brilliant.

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<v Speaker 3>And I'm going to tell you right now, I actually

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<v Speaker 3>listened to every word, even with my add and two,

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<v Speaker 3>and there were two things that stood out the to

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<v Speaker 3>to not try, wait, to not try because afraid of failure?

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<v Speaker 1>What was it like? How I forgot it already? Dang it?

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<v Speaker 1>There was two places in there that I really liked

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<v Speaker 1>a lot.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. At the end, well, I said, at the end,

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<v Speaker 2>like the person who risks nothing may avoid suffering and sorrow,

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<v Speaker 2>but they cannot learn, feel, change, grow love, or fully live.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah that you know what? Listen? That is brilliant, And

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<v Speaker 1>I say risk it all.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's right, Yeah, it's I mean, and it's scary.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean yeah. So it was just and I actually

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<v Speaker 2>choked up reading it out to these folks onion. We're

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<v Speaker 2>on zoom, and I actually could surprise. Halfway through I

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<v Speaker 2>started choking up because I mean people really had been

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<v Speaker 2>so vulnerable in this group and really got the you know,

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<v Speaker 2>the core of the training and what it was about

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<v Speaker 2>and the forums that they're going to be stepping into.

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<v Speaker 2>So it was just, yeah, I don't know, it was

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<v Speaker 2>really moving to me. But so, what do you think

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<v Speaker 2>what stood out to you as the risks you think

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<v Speaker 2>are most important to take, like in a marriage and

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<v Speaker 2>in a long term relationship.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, I love dollar, I love to show your feelings.

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<v Speaker 3>And again I'm not saying it exactly the way you did,

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<v Speaker 3>but I remember a lot of the the the message,

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<v Speaker 3>just not the actual perfect content delivery. Yeah, but you know,

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<v Speaker 3>to to not love or something like that.

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<v Speaker 2>Is to love is to risk not being loved.

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<v Speaker 3>And yes, and I will tell you even out like

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<v Speaker 3>even before I got married, Like, I can't tell you

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<v Speaker 3>how many times I was not willing to take that

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<v Speaker 3>risk and the what ifs. Again, I wouldn't change anything now,

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<v Speaker 3>but back in the day, I can't tell you how

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<v Speaker 3>many times that I just even just for the just

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<v Speaker 3>for the risk of it, just for the chance, just

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<v Speaker 3>for the courage that it takes.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, why couldn't die?

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<v Speaker 3>Why didn't I And I can tell you now it

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<v Speaker 3>was fear of not being loved back, fear of rejection.

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<v Speaker 3>So that stood out to me, and in marriage it

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<v Speaker 3>still stands out to me because look, let's just talk

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<v Speaker 3>about sex for a second, right, Yeah, you know, for

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<v Speaker 3>me to reach out to my wife, maybe other guys

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<v Speaker 3>feel this way, Maybe other women feel this way.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know.

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<v Speaker 3>You know, maybe things aren't going perfectly well in that

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<v Speaker 3>arena in your marriage and you're afraid to reach out

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<v Speaker 3>and try for that try for that physical intimacy. I

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<v Speaker 3>realize there's many other ways to be intimate. I'm just

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<v Speaker 3>using that as the example.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know, but I mean sexual intimacy is the

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<v Speaker 2>piece of the puzzle, right, that's interesting. So to me,

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<v Speaker 2>that kind of falls into like the reason one of

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<v Speaker 2>the reasons that I find folks in long term relations,

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<v Speaker 2>especially a higher desire person, and they stop trying.

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<v Speaker 1>And that's exactly my point.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but I think it's hope, because to hope is

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<v Speaker 2>to risk despair, and I think it's I mean, there's

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<v Speaker 2>multiple reasons, but I think of it as it's easier

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<v Speaker 2>to not hope anymore because it hurts so much, yep,

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<v Speaker 2>to open yourself to hope and then to feel despair again.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I mean that's and that's the thing, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>and then you go down this whole big rabbit hole.

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<v Speaker 3>I think because I've been having conversations with a friend

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<v Speaker 3>of mine who's going through a little bit of that,

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<v Speaker 3>or he was he's not actually with his wife anymore.

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<v Speaker 3>But the point was that he, you know, his his thing.

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<v Speaker 3>He would say to me, was, you know, here we are,

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<v Speaker 3>we going on these date nights, but you know, are

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<v Speaker 3>they really date nights? If I know guaranteed at the

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<v Speaker 3>end of that night, nothing's going to happen. After the

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<v Speaker 3>bill's paid, that's it. It's over dates, over even. And

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<v Speaker 3>what he pointed out was I've stopped trying. I haven't

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<v Speaker 3>tried for a long time because it is constant rejection.

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<v Speaker 3>And it made me kind of sad because I went

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<v Speaker 3>and your poem brought that back into my head because

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<v Speaker 3>I haven't actually discussed this with this friend of mine

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<v Speaker 3>in probably about three four months, maybe five, But it

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<v Speaker 3>makes me want to contact him again and say, hey, dude,

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<v Speaker 3>how you doing. But anyway, there's a risk and all

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<v Speaker 3>of that I think.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, listen, it is with you, your.

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<v Speaker 2>Risk of starting a fight and creating more of a distance.

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<v Speaker 2>But I mean the big picture is I mean, the

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<v Speaker 2>problem is the more of these risks that we don't

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<v Speaker 2>take in the long run, it creates more and more

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<v Speaker 2>of a barrier between couples because it builds, it builds

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<v Speaker 2>resentment and distance, and that's harder. I mean, the more

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<v Speaker 2>it grows, the harder it is to ever recover from that.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, I've got a friend who I gotta be careful here,

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<v Speaker 3>no names, no, I'm trying to give us a little

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<v Speaker 3>information about. So I have a friend of a friend

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<v Speaker 3>of mine who this person and their husband I don't

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<v Speaker 3>even know if she's done this yet, is going to

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<v Speaker 3>present divorce papers to her husband. And the last we

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<v Speaker 3>talked was probably a month or maybe five weeks ago.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know if it's happened since then.

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<v Speaker 3>But because it's a friend of a friend, that's who

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<v Speaker 3>I'm going through. And this friend of a friend knows

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<v Speaker 3>I'm aware of this, by the way. But the point

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<v Speaker 3>is the conversation that the information I got to your

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<v Speaker 3>point about, you know, putting this wall up, and it

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<v Speaker 3>gets harder and harder and harder. They've not been intimate

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<v Speaker 3>physically in over six years, and they are basically roommates.

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<v Speaker 3>Those are the words of the friend telling me this

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<v Speaker 3>from the woman who's married and just listening to that

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<v Speaker 3>and listening to this poem, listening to you say how

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<v Speaker 3>it's you know, harder herd. I like you to get

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<v Speaker 3>to that point.

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<v Speaker 1>I think. I think you're right. You stop taking risk

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<v Speaker 1>at all.

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<v Speaker 3>It becomes just like, hey, this is just the way

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<v Speaker 3>it is, and it's more comfortable this way. I may

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<v Speaker 3>be disappointed and I want it to change, but I

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<v Speaker 3>am not willing to risk diving into this uncomfortable situation

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<v Speaker 3>to try and fix it. Let's just keep its status quo.

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<v Speaker 2>And you're right, they and so often that that's what

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<v Speaker 2>leads to cheating. Oh, I can't tell you right at

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<v Speaker 2>that point.

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<v Speaker 3>Yep, that does not surprise me at all at all. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 3>so I don't know what about you. I mean you

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<v Speaker 3>to see with you.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, So it's funny. I was just thinking about this

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<v Speaker 2>because I because of having been in this line of

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<v Speaker 2>work for so long, and like I said, really holding

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<v Speaker 2>myself to a standard of practicing what I preach. Although

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<v Speaker 2>you know, I was just thinking this morning about something

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<v Speaker 2>an interaction with my boyfriend. I was like, oh, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>I definitely could have done that better. Well, more patience,

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<v Speaker 2>a little more kindness, a little less reactivity, but all

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<v Speaker 2>of that being said, you know, if I was to

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<v Speaker 2>you know, with somebody, somebody that was in some sort

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<v Speaker 2>of community or friendship with me or closest to me,

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<v Speaker 2>and if I was to like laugh and they like

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<v Speaker 2>treated me like I was a fool, or if I

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<v Speaker 2>was to cry and they like reacted badly, or I

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<v Speaker 2>was like looking at a bunch of these exposed my

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<v Speaker 2>feelings and like was sort of mocked in some way,

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<v Speaker 2>or like my ideas or my dreams. You know, I

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<v Speaker 2>actually would get probably self righteous at this point of

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<v Speaker 2>being like, why are you being an asshole? That was

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<v Speaker 2>really rude what you just did. So because I feel

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<v Speaker 2>so I guess I'm almost entitled, or I guess I'm

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<v Speaker 2>just so. I mean, that sounds terrible to say it

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<v Speaker 2>that way. That's kind of how it plays out. But

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<v Speaker 2>I think the bigger picture around it is, I know

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<v Speaker 2>those things are the best way to live life. I

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<v Speaker 2>know those things like vulnerability takes courage, authenticity takes courage,

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<v Speaker 2>and to share at with other people. And if people

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<v Speaker 2>aren't responsible without emotionally and their own shit gets in

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<v Speaker 2>the way, I call it out almost exclusively, or I

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<v Speaker 2>would at least say well that was rude or like,

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<v Speaker 2>oh that wasn't a very nice response. I mean, depending

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<v Speaker 2>on the person, depends on how rude my response would be.

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<v Speaker 2>But yeah, I just feel I do. And if you know,

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<v Speaker 2>if I'm bringing up something with my boyfriend that I

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<v Speaker 2>know is important to bring up and I know I'm

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<v Speaker 2>being responsible and I'm bringing up and if he doesn't

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<v Speaker 2>handle it well, I will absolutely be like whoa, whoa, whoa,

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<v Speaker 2>Like what are you doing? I'm doing the like taking

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<v Speaker 2>the higher ground here and being emotionally mature in our relationship.

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<v Speaker 2>That response is not and he mostly then will be like,

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<v Speaker 2>oh shit, you're right, and he's like, I'm sorry, dabes.

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<v Speaker 2>So yeah, but you know, was I the same person

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<v Speaker 2>fifteen years ago? No, not at all, you know, so

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<v Speaker 2>much more fear. Yeah, I guess the thing is, Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>if I'm taking the risk, I feel almost righteous about

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<v Speaker 2>it now. But I will not do it with everyone,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, because they're not worth us, They're not worth

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<v Speaker 2>our vulnerability there or they're not worthy of it in

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<v Speaker 2>terms of we don't know that they know how to

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<v Speaker 2>be responsible with it. But in terms of our you know, marriages,

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<v Speaker 2>a long term relationships, yeah, I think it's super valuable.

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<v Speaker 3>I will say. Well, I was going to ask again

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<v Speaker 3>the name of that poem and did you already say this?

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<v Speaker 1>Maybe you didn't. I missed it. Are you posting it?

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<v Speaker 1>Did you post it?

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<v Speaker 2>No? No, I didn't. It didn't have like a name

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<v Speaker 2>on it. And I looked up a little bit of

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<v Speaker 2>it and it said it's thought to be adapted, or

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<v Speaker 2>that it thought that it's to be somebody's work, but

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<v Speaker 2>I'm not sure. And then I did adapt it a

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<v Speaker 2>little bit. Uh No, I'm just gonna I'm going to

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<v Speaker 2>keep it from my stuff. I mean I might use

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<v Speaker 2>it in a post.

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<v Speaker 1>Wow, I sure love it.

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<v Speaker 3>If you'd email it to me, And if you don't

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<v Speaker 3>want me to share it, I won't because that.

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<v Speaker 1>Was really good.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, No, I definitely will. I just added a line

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<v Speaker 2>at the end too, while we were talking, because it

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<v Speaker 2>says only a person who risks is truly free, and

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<v Speaker 2>then I added in and happy, so I could add.

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<v Speaker 1>The very end, which I said, just a few minutes ago,

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<v Speaker 1>risk it all, risk at all.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't agree with that.

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<v Speaker 1>What are you talking about everything in there? Risk it all?

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<v Speaker 2>No, but I don't I would see that's the problem

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<v Speaker 2>with stuff like this. But people like these beautiful poems

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<v Speaker 2>and these beautiful buffs, they're simplifying it because there's places

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<v Speaker 2>that you shouldn't risk because that's actually not smart to do. Well,

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<v Speaker 2>it's not the right thing. Or how about a man

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<v Speaker 2>and he's like a high level CEO and he's gonna

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<v Speaker 2>risk at all for what he really believes in, and

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<v Speaker 2>then he loses all the money and his family's fucked over.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, hmmm.

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<v Speaker 3>Or a guy on the radio who doesn't want to

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<v Speaker 3>lose his job and he keeps his mouth shut about

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<v Speaker 3>a bunch of things so that he doesn't lose his job.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, sorry, I know, I'm not supposed to curse when

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<v Speaker 2>you're in studio. Sorry about that.

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<v Speaker 1>Whatever, it's only three or four times.

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<v Speaker 2>Although you know what this is more about the Although

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<v Speaker 2>you know most of this is about emotional risks and

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<v Speaker 2>sharing with others. But it's the last of the risk

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<v Speaker 2>section says to try is to risk failure. That's the

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<v Speaker 2>one that I was kind of referring to just there anyway.

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<v Speaker 2>To me, it's all like the all or nothing approach

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<v Speaker 2>to things I think is terrible. But what I like

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<v Speaker 2>about this is giving people permission an awareness to have

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<v Speaker 2>the courage to share some uncomfortable things.

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<v Speaker 1>I like that.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I like that, And it's not as catchy of

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<v Speaker 2>a poem, but.

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<v Speaker 1>I have some for next week that I wanted it.

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<v Speaker 3>Uh, sex should last thirty five minutes, including fifteen minutes

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<v Speaker 3>of four play and five minutes of cuddling, according to

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<v Speaker 3>a poll of people online. We ran out of time

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<v Speaker 3>today because I got to get to doing my show.

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<v Speaker 3>But I just I literally as we talk, just emailed

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<v Speaker 3>it to you. It's a short deal, but I thought

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<v Speaker 3>that we might have some.

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<v Speaker 1>Fun with that.

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<v Speaker 2>Wait. Wait's a thirty five minutes and it's minus thirty

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<v Speaker 2>five minus its twenty and then ten minutes for cuddling,

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<v Speaker 2>So we've got ten minutes. They're saying of like intercourse,

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know.

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<v Speaker 1>You're going to have to read it.

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<v Speaker 2>It's very well in terends of what they mean by

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<v Speaker 2>four play, because unfortunately four play what's put into that

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<v Speaker 2>is like women's specific pleasure is put into four play

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<v Speaker 2>instead of the main show, so I'd like to know

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<v Speaker 2>how to breaking down their categories. Okay, I am suspicious already.

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<v Speaker 1>I am too.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, Clint, I know you had got to go because

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<v Speaker 2>you gotta get on air. So this was just a quickie,

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<v Speaker 2>quickie for quickie for two fifty.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes it was.

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<v Speaker 2>I will send you this risk poem if anybody else

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<v Speaker 2>wants to, just hit me up on social media somewhere

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<v Speaker 2>or send me an email and I'm happy to send

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<v Speaker 2>it to you.

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<v Speaker 1>Love it, doctor Jenny.

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<v Speaker 2>You have a good day, Clint, have a great one. Okay. Bye,