Speaker 1: Meaning a live man like this man letting butterfly flapping
his wing.
Speaker 2: Dig down in the forest.
Speaker 1: Man, it gonna cause the tree fall, letting five thousand
miles away.
Speaker 2: Man, nobody seen, nobody.
Speaker 1: You don't need to know many story and you got
back like that. That's way, man, don't blackly dang on
the panel, man, man, Man.
Speaker 3: All right, Paul Wagner, Welcome to Jay Burdon Show.
Speaker 2: How are you doing? Man, I'm doing really well. Good
to be here.
Speaker 3: Yeah, man, I'm glad to have you on. Uh. You
and I have known each other for a while, had
had a bunch of really interesting conversations, and it took
some random guy on Twitter just dming me and being like, hey,
you ever talked to this guy? I was like, oh, yeah,
I guess I do have a show. So yeah, man,
I'm happy to have you on.
Speaker 2: Well, right on, I'm glad to be here. Like you said,
we've had some pretty good conversations and I'm sure we'll
have another good one for your listeners today. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Sure, thing.
Speaker 2: Man.
Speaker 3: So obviously I know who you are, but my audience
might not so. Well, who are you and what do
you do?
Speaker 2: I'm Paul Wagner, I'm I've done a lot of different stuff.
I guess I'm like sort of a jack of all trades,
but I've been a pro musician. A lot of folks
on here might know me for my project, Operation Werewolf,
which is I've called it a project of total life reform.
It's sort of equal parts fitness routine and philosophical approach
to life, as well as kind of almost like a
kickstart kit for active clubs, crews, tribal organizations and things
like that. I've done a lot of stuff in the
in the business world and things like that as well.
I'm a black belt in Brazilian jiu jitsu and I
run my own crew called the Wolves of England, which
if you google you'll find quite a bit that mostly
our detractors have to say about us, but it's in
the same keeping with everything I do. It's a group
of guys who are interested in that sort of communal
and family lifestyle as well as martial training, fitness training,
and for us, our lifestyle centers pretty heavily around paganism
and things like that. Although I understand that word is
a bit loaded and means different things to different people,
but that sort of sums up kind of the totality.
But I've done quite a lot of different stuff, and
I enjoy sort of a broad approach to life, so
I try to stay involved in as many different things
as I can.
Speaker 3: Yeah, man, I'm glad you brought up the sort of
the training and the martial arts, right, because one, obviously
there's been sort of this explosion in particularly and grappling
in the last couple of years. Probably an understatement, but
You've been around for a long time and I'm curious
to get your perspective on that.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 3: How is something that was relatively obscure changed where now
it's like, you know, Joe Rogan, who's the one of
the most famous people in the world, won't shut up
about jiu jitsu and has it for the last decade.
Speaker 2: No matter how much people might want him to. Yeah.
I mean when I was a kid, I would say
that my experience was probably pretty similar to a lot
of people my age. I'm in my early forties now,
and it was I was introduced to it the same
way most Americans were, which was my older brothers brought
home UFC one videotape back when it was back in
the Faces of Death area by the adult video section
or whatever, and we watched it and there was this
little guy wearing pajamas who you know, housed everybody. And
so that was the first time I'd heard of Brazilian
jiu jitsu, and there was nowhere to train. I grew
up in Chyen, Wyoming, so this wasn't a thing, and
back then in the nineties that would have been the
early nineties, there was nowhere to train almost anywhere unless
you lived in a couple of select locations sort of
the Brazilian invasion hadn't happened yet. You know, it's crazy
hearing stories from my own coach, who's been a black
belt since ninety nine, I think somewhere around there under
Carlson Gracie Junior, where a purple belt back then was
a black belt, and you know what I mean, Nowadays
blue belts could have probably torn their way through most
brown belts or even probably some of the black belts
back then. So it's definitely been a crazy thing to see.
I didn't get into training it until I was in
my twenties, and then I didn't i would say, start
training it really seriously until my eight twenties and around
thirty and yeah. I mean even then, it was kind
of like having an assault rifle. Back then, that would
have been Oh, I don't know, what is that twelve thirteen,
fourteen years ago in my late late twenties, and not
a lot of people were training at any kind of
serious level. And so now you know, it's a it's
a household thing. I think it's hard to go somewhere
if you go to a bar without meeting like at
least somebody who does MMA. It's cool. I think it's
it's rad. You know what it's done for the sport.
A ton of people train grappling now and so you've
watched the skill level just goes crazy. You know, I'm
a I'm a black belt, but I'll watch kids at
IBJJF at blue belt and purple belt and you're like,
I don't know that I want to get in there
with some of those guys. You know, every time something
is popularized, the level of it is always going to
come up and rise to that. So I think it's great.
I think it's great people are making money doing it.
You know, it's it's never going to have the privacy
of mixed martial arts because frankly, people want to watch
people get punched in the face, and I think that
grappling is is or can be quite boring to people
who don't do it themselves. I think that no ge
is a lot more exciting for people to watch sometimes,
especially the rule sets that push a lot of action,
big takedowns, ADCC and that kind of stuff. But it's
it's great. I think, you know, it's wonderful. It's an
excellent martial art and it's cool to see people practice it.
Speaker 3: One of the things, and I've said this before both
on air and off, I like my gym. I would
go to my gym if it were a boxing gym whatever.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 3: I enjoy jiu jitsu, but I'm not a jiu jitsu
got you know that in that way. And one of
the things you'll often see because people are always criticizing
that world because look like it's pretty weird, you know,
there's some definite uh I guess we could say special characteristics,
you know. But one of the things that you hear
people say is they will look at, you know, the
kind of most egregious examples of like you know, competitive
butt scooting, you know, the kind of really ridiculous stuff
and say, well, This doesn't look like fighting, right, This
looks like some sort of game. So I'm curious, genuinely, like,
what is your perspective on the purpose of training, right,
and how does competition sort of meet.
Speaker 2: Up with that? Yeah, I think that there's a there's
always people who have said stuff, probably better than I
ever will. There's an old head named Chris Howider who's
a legend in the sport. He's one of the Dirty
Dozen that's the first twelve Americans to get their black belts,
and he talks about the idea of sport versus street
and that back then the whole culture of jiu jitsu
back then was a lot more machismo and a lot
more I guess thugged out. You know, it's it's Brazilian
guys who used to go and dojo storm each other
down in Brazil and then they're up here training guys
in California. And back in the early days in the nineties,
you'd hear about that stuff, dojo storming and people going
over to you know, mess dudes up and everything like that.
And so I think back then you saw a lot
more of the combat element of jiu jitsu. I think
it can look kind of comedic. Now you see these
sort of like Gracie self defense, and I don't put
a ton of stock in some of that, the more
provmagach kind of stuff. You know, you see guys training
with with guns, but the guys holding it way out
from his body and all the rest of this kind
of thing. But I think that what you see with
anything as it becomes competitive, you need a way to
be able to go one hundred percent, and grappling allows
you to train at one hundred percent a lot of
the time. And so you're gonna see sport adaptations because
then it's no longer necessarily about fighting, it's about winning
the tournament, and long it's within the rules of the tournament,
you're gonna see stuff that you will do on the
mats at IBJJF that I might not do behind the bar.
You know, I'm not gonna try to barm bolo or
run an Inminari role on a guy if I'm in
a fight out on the street. But I think that
there's a worthwhile distinction to be made here, which is
then you get the other type of guys who say, well,
this doesn't actually work. It's a sport martial art but
jiu jitsu at its core is about feet to floor
and then oftentimes lim control, lim destruction, strangling, domination, but
it's still about positional control, and it's still about positional
control on the feet. I used to get into a
lot of fights when I was a younger guy, and
when I started training jiu jitsu, it was, like I said,
it was like having a gun if you were against
the guy who had never done any wrestling or jiu jitsu.
And I would say wrestling back then was like having
a gun too. You'd watch these guys devastate people in
street fights. So I would say that the point of training,
as Chris Howarder said, is he says, you know, think street,
train sport, and practice the art. That's a paraphrase. I'm
sure he said it smoother. But even while you're training
the sport, which we do down at my gym all
the time, you know, you'll have a guy camping out
and somebody will start to kind of touch his face
or whatever, or some of the guys like to train
with them m a gloves on, so that you just
get reminded what works and what doesn't work when striking
is involved. And that's why I started training. I started
training because I wanted to be more capable and better
able to handle myself. And now I'm in my forties,
I'm pretty unlikely to get into a bar fight that
I couldn't have handled that purple belt. And I just
keep training because I like the art. And you know,
I'm not in there going nuts or winning any titles
or anything like that. I just like to practice the art.
You know, it's fun.
Speaker 3: It's interesting thing because obviously, if we're talking about why
this has gotten more popular, some of it's the social
media aspect, right. You know, you've got funny guys doing
things that go viral. You know, you've got celebrities people like.
Obviously that's going to produce some sort of reaction. But
I think another part of it is that, at a
very fundamental level, and this is a line from someone
I can't remember who I stole it from, that guys
like to fight and women like guys who fight. Right,
it's a very kind of core part of you know,
like the male brain, and that has been so thoroughly
pushed out of most aspects of culture that you know,
when you see something competitive, when you see something related
to combat, even if you're not actually, you know, stomping
the guy out. Like you can see why, especially young
men are drawn to that. And sorry if you want
to react to that.
Speaker 2: Well, And I was.
Speaker 3: Even thinking about this because you know, I was lucky
enough to go to a school that was sort of
behind the times, but I definitively remember, even in the
mid twenty tens, when the both guys involved in a
fight get suspended, no matter what rule came through. And thankfully,
you know, some of the teachers I had were guys
they sort of got it and would kind of, you know,
all right, stand up, shake hands, whatever. But even if
that behavior gets punished and pushed out of most people's lives,
there's still a desire for it, and there's still a
desire to prove yourself to become in whatever context, dangerous.
And so I wonder if that's part of the reason
why you know, we're sort of seeing this, you know,
martial arts renaissance, is because especially young men, they want
to prove themselves, right, they want to be capable.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that that statement that you started with,
where the guys like to fight in girls like guys
who fight, I think that you could maybe correct that
and say that guys want to be respected and women
like guys who are respected, and I think that they
will like that no matter or what gets those guys
that respect, because and this is a pretty broad term,
but when women see men, and this is a thing
that I try to remind as many young guys as
I can who are out chasing women, is that you
don't have to chase women. What you do is you
pursue the respect of your peers. And if you're someone
who is highly respected by your peers, women will see
that and they'll desire that because you're high on the
totem pole, and that's very natural social stuff, and it's
very very natural for people to want that. You know,
nobody wants to be with the I don't know, the
bridge troll or whatever, you know what I mean, He's
supposed to be a high performer. And so I think
that that a lot of the time can change based
on the culture. Right, what gets you respect? I would
say that certainly for guys on the right, you're seeing
a really huge resurgence of young guys who are out
there wanting to fight and wanting to train. I think
for a long time youth was just lost in general,
especially for the last many years. And I think what
you're seeing, and I would say I've only seen this
through some of my younger friends in the last couple
of years, is that they're really dissatisfied with with sort
of the vapid culture of the last like long time.
They're they're tired of all the drinking and the drugs
for the most part, and all the rest, and they
want something vital, and they want something exciting, and they
want something dangerous. And of course this is you know,
is very Nietzsche and it's they want danger and play.
And so I think fighting and women and all the
rest of that kind of stuff comes along with this
extremely sort of radical philosophy of you're either going to
have this kind of guy or the other kind of guy.
You're you know, And I remember when I was in
my thirties, maybe my twenties, you were seeing the sort
of come up of this guy, this type of guy
who only wore shirts ironically, and he would say, well,
I just always thought fighting was really stupid, and girls
would be like, oh hahaha, totally, and that kind of
guy was the guy. And now I think you're seeing
it go back to a more natural way, where what's
desirous is what is strong, and what's powerful, and what's
powerful is kind of what's always been powerful, you know
what I mean?
Speaker 3: Well, And to that point, I think a big part
of it, I say this as someone who's on the
kind of upper end of gen Z, is that for
a while there was sort of a shrinking portion, kind
of like the iceberg was melting, where if you were
a straight white guy, you could be on the right
side of history or you could be an ally And
in different places it happened in different times, but when
I was going to college, it was pretty clear that
really the only way I was going to be able
to do that is if I completely sold out any
dignity whatsoever, right, if I just went along with everything,
if I just kind of ritually beat myself for what
I was. And I don't even think that realization was
political per se. It's something like I sat down, It's like, ah, yes,
this is the conclusion. But I think for a lot
of people it's a very gut level reaction, like no,
I'm not taking that deal. I'm not just gonna be
your designated whipping boy. And of course people take that
in a bunch of different directions. But I think that
if you were, you know, the guy in the smoky boardroom,
right the like president of Evil Incorporated, laying out the
grand plan, whoever that guy is, if you had said,
like all right, like just keep keep going, but like
tone down the rhetoric, you know, don't go after young
guys so much. You could have kept that up for
another thirty years. But the temperature turned up, you know,
the level of you know, I don't know you want
to call it, because it isn't really aggression. It's like
passive aggression got got to the point where it's like
my friends who aren't political, who aren't on the internet, like,
and I'm sure you've experienced the same thing are saying
things now and normal conversation that five ten years ago
you had to be in a very specific subculture to hear.
And so I think a lot of that is reactive.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think there's a huge ziegeist right now and
a lot of it is being driven by gen Z.
And I think one of the cool things about some
sort of sub elements of gen Z is that they
if you allow me to be crass from it, and
they just don't give a fuck, and that they've heard
so much of this garbage for so long that any
generation wants to rebel against authority. And so for us
that looked a little bit different, you know. For me
in my forties, that was different. And my upbringing was
was conservative Christians. So for me, it was tattoos and
fighting and I was a skinhead when I was younger
and everything like that. And in my teens that was
kind of how you got into that lifestyle of well,
what's going to get me into a lot of fights,
you know, and holy cow, it did it, and that
back then you would clear a room if you said
some of the stuff that I see these kids just
meaning about now, you know, And I think it's wonderful.
I think that a it shows that the younger generation
has still got a little bit of a spirit of
rebellion in them, which I think is always good and
it shakes things up. And I think especially what they're
rebelling against now deserves to be rebelled against. And one
of the ways that it's going to get rebelled against
his physical culture and active culture, and that's weight lifting
and it's fighting. But it's also I think, and I'm
a big proponent of this. I think it's is analog
culture is less digital everything, less digital mediation, more more sun,
more steel, you know, being outdoors and all the rest
of us. And this was a huge thing, you know,
during in pre World War two Germany, you saw the
sort of the rise of the Vandervogel and all the
sort of like solar aspect stuff, and people were trying
to eat better, and they were trying to be more
active and forming boxing clubs and going out and playing
music out in the mountains and stuff rather than just
going to the bar another night and all this. And
I think that the more things change, the more they
stay the same. You know, when people feel that something
is completely corrupt and that they feel the finger in
their chest saying and it's you who are the loser
and who should feel guilty and all the rest. At
a certain point, young men are just going to get
tired of that narrative and say screw it. And then
I think when they're able to sort of turn the
tide of that gets you kicked out of polite society.
But hey, look at this big other society that we're
forming around that type of idea. Then I think you're
going to see you're going to see those guys getting
a lot of respect. And then I think you're going
to see those guys getting a lot of women. And
I think that then the tide is really going to
shift when all of a sudden, that is the cool
thing to do again, that it's not cool to be
a worm and go around, you know, licking the dust
and going along with the narrative, and that it's like
Jack London says, it's the inevitable white man. It's an
unstoppable thing. You know.
Speaker 3: Well, and on that point, I've had this conversation with,
you know, a couple of my friends who are you know,
like hedge fund guys, the kind of people that in
a normal time aren't really interested in politics particularly and
when we say politics, we understand what we mean, right,
I'm not talking about like, you know what the Senate
is doing, right, but aren't interested in this sort of stuff.
And you know, really I'm thinking about my buddy Stormy.
He basically said, He's like, look like thirty years ago,
I'd be making money, That's all I would be caring about.
And I see that same pattern in a different way
at many different levels, right where it's guys who you
can imagine them, you know, if they were their parents' age,
never even indexing with this because it seemed really distant,
didn't seem like it mattered, and look for people my age,
like the pandemic was sort of like my personal Vietnam.
Will never shut up about it, but like it was
a very formative experience because if you were following the
track exactly, you're doing everything you're supposed to, You're in school,
you're studying, and all of a sudden you're an outlaw,
Like I almost got dropped from school because of a
medical choice, which like, okay, you know, looking back on it,
as you know a guy in his late twenties, you're like, okay,
I would have been fine. But in that moment, you're
twenty year like, oh shoot, is my whole life over.
It was a really interesting breakpoint because all of a sudden,
it's like, oh, they can kick me out of, as
you said, polite society for any reason.
Speaker 2: So who cares?
Speaker 3: Right, why not just hoist the blast black flag? Because
I mean they're gonna do it anyway, right, There's gonna
be something else, particularly if you are on that edge
of you know, that shrinking kind of Iceberg, right, of
the last people who could still be on side.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think I think that's one of the
things that has been really cool to see in my
own crew is that, you know, you've got a lot
of guys who are like my age and older. So
I'm one of the younger old guys, you know what
I mean. It's kind of like forty and up. And
then you got kind of another couple of guys who
are sort of like mid thirties and down, and there's
kind of just a divide there. But what's interesting to
see is that you have this sort of attitude with
all of them. And I like to hope that I've
had some positive influence on this as a guy who
I got kicked off everything, out of everything, I got
kicked out of my gym and all the rest. And
I think a lot of people when this happens, they
just sort of shell up and are like, oh my God,
like I have to just kind of go out and
live in a hole. But I was like, well, I'll
find another way to do it. And so my brother
and I and a couple of our friends, you know,
you build your own gym, you know, and and you
train there and we train with who we want to.
We don't charge a dollar to train there. We just
train with guys who want to come in and train.
We've got a great spot. We've got four Black belts
there now who all train there. So it's not like
you're not getting good instruction. All these other things that
sort of happened. Like you said, you just raised the
black flag and say, if this is the way life
is going to be, then I'm going to embrace this
and say how do I make this fun? And it
has been fun And so then you have a lot
of the young guys who are like, well, we'll just
do what he did, and they don't care. There's no concern.
I think for them that getting kicked out of one
thing or losing your job is going to be a
big deal. You see guys get docs now and they're like,
tough shit, who cares you? Move on. It's happened to
you know, hundreds of other people and they're fine. And
so I think it's we're running the enemy out of
options as as far as that thing goes, where they
were able to just kind of snitch and rat and
change the whole thing. And I think that the problem
for them is that they're largely on pre for the
other kind, you know what I mean, The other kind
of conflict is not something I think that they're interested in.
And so once they run out of ammunition and things
to do as a rat and a snitch, where do
you go from there with? Then you have to start
directly confronting people. And they're not very strong on that well.
Speaker 3: And I think that if I'm looking at you know,
what are the things that I us kind of white pills, right,
reasons for hope. One of the biggest ones for me
has been the kind of art scene.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 3: I think of my buddies, you know, Edwards Curled, all
all those guys. And for a long time, there was
always that premise of like, they'll be a good novel,
they'll be a good painting, they'll be a good album soon.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 3: It was always sometime in the future, or maybe there
was something super underground, and then all of a sudden
you start to see You're like, oh, hey, like that
this tree isn't dead. I see some shoots. There's something
coming here. And you know, there are a men's number
of guys who have done very well for themselves self
publishing and a lot, a lot of guys even slightly
older than me, got into you know, right wing politics, identitarians,
whatever you want to call it, through media. That's when
they saw it first. You know, they saw it, you
know in the games they were playing, in the shows
they were watching, like, wait a minute, why am I
inherently like what's wrong with me? I thought I was
just the good liberal. I thought I was just you know,
atomized individual. And initially that reaction was a lot of analysis.
It was just constantly tearing down whatever the newest woke
movie is, and that still exists. You can make you know,
million dollars doing that and hopefully not blow your brains
out saying the same thing for ten years. But that
creative spark, not just towards building gyms or building institutions,
but towards creating culture and creating art has been in
my mind, very very hopeful.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 3: That's something that is new and generative in a way
that a previous version of right wing culture, which was
heavily focused, ironically enough, sort of culture of critique, right,
I think was missing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree. And it's funny that you say that
because I've had this conversation with several of the older
guys here, and and that exact terminology, you know, culture
of critique, where you're watching all these guys shit on everything,
but they're also shitting on guys on their own ostensibly
on their own team, which you know what I mean.
The lines get a little blurred and things get weird
there sometimes. But and they were tearing down everything that
they were trying to do also, and you go, well,
at a certain point, you're gonna have to be constructive
here because we're not going to have that. Nobody's gonna
have that unless people are trying to help each other out.
And I do another podcast that I do once a
month for a group called Hearthfire Radio that's called Right Action,
And on the last one, I was talking about the
idea of wealth and how how much it's held back
guys on the right side of things in general, this
idea that you know, money is dirty and and that
you're if you're good at making it, then you must
be a grifter and all the rest, and said, you know,
when are we going to start to change our mind
on this and really help each other do these things
that we want to do and build these things and
have these creative outputs that require this, rather than having
this sort of inherited guilt idea that money is somehow evil.
I've never heard of a war being won on an
empty chest, you know what I mean. And so the
cool thing is that you are starting to see a
lot of this with with art, with music, like you said,
with self publishing books and not just philosophical shit or
dry stuff, but with fiction and with with yeah, music,
things to entertain, to enjoy. And I think that one
of the signs that people are really getting set into
something is that they're not just thinking about the most
serious or you know, worst case scenario. They're thinking about
the myths and the stories and the poetics and all this.
This is when something I think becomes beautiful rather than
just sort of a dry philosophy that a lot of people,
frankly aren't going to engage with. Most people, in order
to engage with something, you have to engage them from here,
and honestly, it's quite boring a lot of times to
be engaged or to try to engage people from here,
and you wind up with a lot of people who
are sort of excellent and intellectualizing and hypothesizing about things.
But men of action, largely in the past have been
men of sort of mythic interests and all the rest
of this. Give me a guy who reads Conan and
he probably already understands at least the base ideas behind
Nietzsche well enough, you know what I mean, and write
fiction like that, you know what I mean. And there's
another there's a great book by one of the guys
who runs Imperium Press called Culture Thug, and it's cool
and I wish i'd had it when I was like fifteen,
because it fast tracks a lot of these ideas and
you can kind of flip through and say, Okay, well,
I'm probably not going to read Spangler's whole thing, but
I've got the cliff notes from this, and if I
do really like the idea, he gives me the sort
of roadmap to explore that more deeply, and he covers
a great deal of different things in there. And I
think things like that are very valuable, where you can say, hey,
here's sort of a crash course where you could self
educate on the parts of this that do interest you,
rather than kind of getting hemmed up on on oh,
you have to read every single Julius Evola book. Otherwise
you're not part of this thing. And you're like, well,
I guess I'm not part of this thing. I like Evola,
but it's dense. Yeah, I was about to say exciting reading.
Speaker 3: Like twenty five pages into like sex magic. I was like,
all right, dude, I'm I'm out.
Speaker 2: This is this is that's for making his best stuff.
I do like his but you know, Metaphysics of Power
is real cool. I've got I don't know, I have
a ton of his stuff over here. But yeah, I mean,
I'm not going to talk to probably your standard fifteen
year old kid and say, hey, you know what you
should do is read the entire bibliography of Evola, you
know what I mean? And I think that that's where
we're moving. We're moving away from being like dumb ass
gatekeeping stuff where you have to have all this and
you have to have these intellectual credentials to be part
of this thing, and moving more into saying what's he do?
Is he read? Is he does? He does? He live
the life? And you're you're going to attract a lot
more radical guys that way, a lot more people who
are actually men of action than just guys who are
content to sit around in a thick sweater, smuggling a
pipe and reading books on Roman Catholic fatherhood or whatever,
no offense.
Speaker 3: I think that perhaps one of the best examples of
this is a dude I only talk to once, right,
Matt Krattz, but he has a series of I would
describe it as sort of a mix of like Tintin
and asterisk asterisks, or it's sort of like for that,
like you know, kind of like young kid to teenager,
kind of like you know, Sword and Sorcery adventure novels.
It's he does the illustration, does you know all the
writing for it? And it was one of those things
where you know, you talk to him and you're like, oh, yeah,
like he's one of us, he's on side, he gets it.
But you read through it and like, if you didn't
check the date on it, you'd be like, oh, this
could have come out in nineteen fifty.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 3: Culturally, from a certain perspective, you could say it's it's
right wing, or at the very least it's not subversive.
It's true, so if that means right wing, sure, but
it's not like you flip to the end and you
get his manifesto, right, it's not like he's you know,
setting out his grievances with you know, modernity or you know,
the architects of whatever. It's just simply a piece of art.
And I think that that's something that thankfully, i've seen
many of the good creators on the whatever you want
to call the right wing, right that side of things,
successfully steering away from that sort of like didactic you know,
political art where it feels like you're, you know, you're
reading something off of like a you know, a four
chan thread you know that just has some visuals so.
Speaker 2: Boring, And it's the same thing that we accuse these
you know, like comedians or anything of you know, where
it's no longer comedy, it's just finger wagging from the stage. Well,
a lot of people who are on like I know,
we both understand what we mean when we say on
our side of things, you know, on on the general right,
they wind up becoming finger waggers where everything has to
fit into this thing. And I think what you said
there was very good where if I look at a book,
it doesn't have to be you know, like you said,
there doesn't have to be a manifesto underlying it. I
just don't want it to be written by you know,
somebody who like we we've talked about this, but it's
like frog and toad, you know what I mean. Oh,
it's a my parents had me read that. But it
turns out it was written by a gay Jewish who
wound up leaving his wife and kids to go live
with his boyfriend in the east village, you know, or
Mary Sendak. Everyone knows where the wild things are. Well,
he has some pretty horrifying and creepy stuff to say
about that, And you go, you know, oh, it's some
Jewish guy who's you know, maybe got something bad happened
to him by his uncles or whatever, and then he
wrote a story about it that your kids should read.
And it's crazy because that stuff is pernicious. But you go, hey, look,
let's not do the same thing. On the other side,
and I would say that we don't have to, which
is that if it's not subversive and it's true and
it's upright, and it's something that's victorious and positive for
all time, we don't have to worry about falling into
this trap. You know, you can write a kid's book
that's just good, you know, it doesn't have to be
teaching him a lesson about multiculturalism or this or that,
and at the same you know, on the same hand,
it doesn't have to be necessarily teaching him a lesson
about whatever whatever it is that you know, a right
way guy is trying to teach his kid about. That
being said, I have written kids books that are you know,
pro ancestry and all the rest of this kind of stuff,
because I think it's worth doing a certain amount of
uplifting there when you see and I did research on
this and went to the kids section in Barnes and Noble,
and I was like, shit, maybe there should be an
alternate viewpoint here. My anti racist Baby was like a
best seller, you know what I mean. And I'm certainly
not going to write a book called my racist Baby,
but you know, I mean, like, how about where you
come from is important? And you're not a piece of
garbage because you're a Caucasian. You know, well, if you're looking.
Speaker 3: For and this is how you know, Paul that I'm
a very serious podcaster with a very serious show. My
next recording is a full length review of Cash Patel's
series of children's books, which are basically just him talking
about how cool he is in a wizard hat with
Nike Air Force ones. The point is, like, you're you're
one hundred percent right about the children's book stuff. My
wife was a teacher that the stuff that she saw
just in even like a relatively normal, you know, conservative town,
it produces that sort of reaction right where you're like,
all right, maybe it's time to get a you know,
a a child sized clanhood out. But what you said
earlier about you know Conan, and obviously you have you know,
Howard's other stuff. I think that there's a lot to that.
Because I haven't read a ton of Howard. I've read enough.
I've sort of you know, read the the kind of
top line stories about both you know, Conan and then
Solomon Kane, who's my favorite just because it's so cool.
Man is again like, there isn't really anything political to
those stories. There's sort of primal in a way. But
nonetheless you get this.
Speaker 2: I mean, I think that that kind of is you know,
like you said, when I'm younger, and I still believe,
you know, I had a werewolf you know thing that
was on everything, and I still believe it. You know,
the solution is not political, and what I'm what I've
always meant by that is that contemporary politics are not
going to solve our problems for us. And that was
from an Evola thing saying, let's have no more of
present day politics, you know what I mean? That's just
shifting from left to right in a bed of agony,
as he says it. But that everything, in a way
has become political, and I don't think that that's necessarily
a good thing. But even reading Conan, if you read
Conan now, and I'm sure there's a thousand reviews of
Howard online saying it's racist, it's it's chauvinists, it's misogynistic,
and all the rest, I guarantee you that's going to
be probably some of the first stuff that comes up.
Ditto for Tolkien and Burrows and all the other classic
pulp guys, because all their book covers is like a
really big guy with a chick thrown over their shoulder
and probably a lot of cake, you.
Speaker 3: Know what I mean.
Speaker 2: Like that was the thing. So in a way, it
is political already because people are attacking it. And I
think that if people weren't attacking it and try to
make you feel bad for reading it, it wouldn't have
to be. But if someone asks you who are your
favorite fiction authors and you say Kipling and Burrows and
Howard and Tolkien, They're going to be like, oh, this
guy must be some right wing fascist, you know, by
nature of what he reads. So in a way, everything
is political.
Speaker 3: And I understand that the distinction you're making there because
again going back to the kind of like center right
critique of like left wing media, oftentimes they'll say like, oh,
why are you making everything so political? The retort is,
of course everything is political, and looking at both sides
of it, you can see the complaint right off, like, look, man,
like I just want to watch, you know, the new
Star Wars movie. Why are we getting you know, some
purple haired likes being you know, ranting at the screen.
But on the other hand, right if we look at
like what makes art interesting? Why we go back to
art even from cultures very different from our own, Well,
of course there's like an expressive value. There's a pure
visual value of like, hey, this is cool, and I
don't want to downplay that. But another part of it
is you're you're getting it something true, You're getting it
something real, and like, you know, even with you know,
like Conan or Caane. There's there's this sort of like
archetypal value, right, like the hero with a thousand faces
whatever you want to say, that is deeply buried into like,
you know, the Western human consciousness of like that is
what it is to be a good man.
Speaker 2: I want to be like that. You know.
Speaker 3: It's this sort of like and you know, Carlisle will
have called it like hero worship, but this idea and
look like you see this in you know, the ancient world,
you know, the the infamous case right of Caesar breaking
down in tears in front of the bust of Alexander,
you know, but I mean Napoleon, you know, our own
you know, the kind of American founding fathers, whatever our
views of them, had this concept of hero worship regard
for the guys who came before you, this kind of
great heroes. And I think that the pulp you're talking
about taps into that, right. Sure they don't literally exist.
Speaker 2: But yeah, and I think that the other thing it's
good at too is that And and you know, I
would make the argument that Star Wars, of course, was
always leftist. It was it was written by you know,
guys who were It's supposed to be kind of like
a Vietnam sympathizing thing when you look at the interviews
and it's it's a plucky group of misfits and disparate
people from all over the galaxy that somehow are defeating
this you know, organized global empire. But that one of
the things with the work that they will hold up
as as heroic or fantasy or whatever. And it's it's
whatever they're doing now, whether it's Star Wars or whatever
other piece of shit show that they're trying to run out.
It's not just that it has to have this you know,
diverse cast of characters and all this. It's that the
main guy has to be moral in the way that
they currently agree with, and not just a bad you know,
a bad mother like I don't want to swear too
much on your show, but that that like Conan, at
the risk of sounding like a Jordan Peterson or a
Tom Hardy smoking a cigar in black and white meme,
it's that Conan's not necessarily a good guy. It's that
he's good at being a guy, and in the classic
sense of the word, he's strong. He overpowers everything, he
goes at every situation directly right, You know that in
a Conan story, you're not gonna wind up with some
sort of Conan Doyle battle of the wits. He's just
gonna smash everybody. Ultimately, he's not an idiot, but he
prefers to deal with things just as a powerhouse. And
every woman is in love with him no matter what,
and all the rest of this. And so you get
this guy who that kind of throws back to what
we were talking about before. This is a guy who
anywhere he went, other guys would be like, holy shit,
this guy is a badass, and not necessarily what an
upstandingly moral young gentleman, you know what I mean. It's
that he's just a bastard, you know what I mean,
And he's capable of doing everything. And that's sort of
there isn't you know? That's every Howard character essentially. Solomon
Kan's a little different, but most of them are just Conan.
And whether it's Conan in the Wild West or Conan
fighting with swords in Spain or Arabia or whatever, it's
all the same story. You know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, When I think that perhaps the perfect like trope, right,
the scene you've seen a thousand times to explain this, right,
is the you know, the the climactic, you know, after
the big fight with the villain where you know that
they've got him and the villain's like kill me, and
he's like, no, because if I kill you, I'll be
just as bad as you. And it's ridiculous. You know,
it's almost like a parody at this point. But you
go back, I mean even to even to you know,
Lord of the Rings, which has a different it's a
different morality than you know, the Coonhan. The idea is
that no evil is to be vanquished. Right, you smash
it and you know that idea is relative to current culture,
very subversive and one of my favorite podcasts. One of
the few shows I actually listen to every episode is
Chad and Kevin's Warhammer Show, which is only technically about Warhammer, right.
Speaker 2: It's it's just all about Warhammer and that's all it's about.
Speaker 3: But sidebar issue. I keep plugging it on my show.
Subscribe to it for the titles alone. The titles are hilarious.
Speaker 2: You know, like I don't and and this is not
me copping out of being a nerd or something like
Frank Frizette is one of the reasons I ever even
lifted away, so Conan, I love Tolkien all that stuff,
but I don't know much about Warhammer, and most of
what I know about Warhammer I've learned through late night
drinking beer with those guys, and I do find it fascinating.
It's crazy the sort of one eighty that it's done
in all the rest. But even as a guy who
didn't know anything about Warhammer, I was listening to the
first show that those guys are doing, and I was like,
this is something special here, because those guys are both
so ridiculous together and also Kevin is such a like,
you know, he's like a political commentary guy, and Chad
is just always like nope, it's fake and gay, like,
you know whatever. This is just two of those guys
on a show, and Chad runs the Twitter account, which
is also hilarious. But yeah, they're doing a really good
job there. I found it highly entertaining. But yeah, one
of the things you were saying about the hero thing,
we're just talking about the other day because one of
my little boy's favorite movies is Fire and Ice. That
a you know, bochy sort of barbarian thing, and in
the very end of that, you go, God, how many
cultures were felled by this. You know, they've been fighting
these guys all movie who are literally called the sub humans.
They're these cave men, neanderthal guys. And at the very
end of the movie, the like blonde haired protagonist, there's
like one of these guys left, and you know, the
big you know, buxo chick that he's with or whatever goes, No,
you can't do that. That's over now, and it's a
new way of life, don't you understand. And he's like,
better listen to the you know, better listen to this
chick and get in the long house or whatever. And
every time I watch it with my kid, I'm like, God,
is there a way to just edit the last like
ten minutes of this movie completely out? Yeah?
Speaker 3: Well, I think that that's sort of one of the
one of the interesting things about that kind of like
cultural left wing view is they have kind of a
dual place for the villain. It's like not entirely consistent.
And I realize, look, just because it doesn't line up
perfectly on a graph doesn't mean that it isn't effective.
But on one hand, people like you and I are
abject to evil, right, we're irredeemable, we need to be
stomped out. But also like the big bad the villain, well,
really there's no reason he isn't just evil, right, There's
no such thing as pure evil. It's a lot of
times motivated by some kind of weird like psycho sexual
you know, whether explicitly or implicitly, which you know, we
can maybe do some noticing there. But like, I think
that that's interesting where on one level it is extremely
black and white. On one level, it is there are
good people and bad people, but oftentimes in their media
they at least have this kind of fig leaf of
you know, no one's ever truly bad, it's just misunderstanding.
Like again, not to go back to this, but just
as a relevant example, you've seen this very much in Warhammer, right,
which is the most ludicrously black and white setting possible. Right,
it is hell is real, and you know, demons will
pop out if you do anything bad, and basically like
you know.
Speaker 2: And here's why that's talk you to death.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, exactly, But you can see them sort of
desperately trying to contort that into this kind of moral
and when we talk about moral relativism, I'm not talking about.
Speaker 2: On the way to community college.
Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, yeah, So I'm curious, right, like, what do
you make of that, because we spend a lot of
time talking about the hero. But I think another thing
that I noticed in a lot of kind of pop
culture is an inability to make like true villains anymore.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, and I think that's part and parcel with
this sort of form and void thing that is hand
in hand with all left wing philosophy is that they
don't like definites. You know, you even see it in
fucking Star Wars. Only assist deals in absolutes. And you're like, right,
because nothing could just be good or bad. We're words
don't just mean things, okay, Countries don't just have borders
on them all right. Everything is permeable, amorphous, and in
a state of transition. Everything is a spectrum, right, And
that idea is so critical, I think, especially to modern
leftist thought, that they can't make any statement. There's no
statement that they make that can't hold it sort of
inversion within itself. And although that's sort of a powerful
ability to be able to do, because you're constantly playing
a shell game, you know what I mean, it's it's
the inability to stand on any point without saying, well,
you know, and again you go back to this idea
of directness or indirectness, and that you know, if I
may indulge my own personal interest for a moment, that
not like we've been doing it all all show. But
there's this thing in Smith where they talk about two
different types of magical expression in the more sort of
fantastical mythology stories, and one is called galder, which is
the idea of singing or chanting runes and creating some
kind of change or affecting the world in a direct way.
It's it's it's cut into things, usually with a knife,
or it's spoken. It's all very direct. And the other type,
this is considered masculine. And the other type is called saithe,
which is like more womanly, and it's it's maybe involved
sitting out or singing or these other things that then
affect things in a in a roundabout kind of fashion,
or might involve shape shifting or something like that, right
sort of chicanery or trickery or whatever. And this is
seen as womanly in a way where a guy would
say it's womanly, And what they mean is that it's
indirect it's cowardly and it's passive aggressive, And so all
the way back from the mythology, this, this old mythology
of our people, you have this idea that to be
direct and to say this is who I am, this
is what I stand for. Here I am is correct
and is masculine. And to do anything else and to
do anything indirectly or to constantly be shifting around is effeminate,
or it's unmanly, it's cowardly. And I think that these
two philosophies sort of stand at opposite ends of the ballpark,
where you have this idea that you and I can
look at something and say, give him the boot. You
know what I mean, this guy interfered with children or something.
Just give him the boot, stop him. Nothing else that
he's done with his life changes this. And this is evil,
and evil has to be confronted and it must be crushed.
And I think on this other side, it's, well, can
we truly trust that? Or well maybe this happened, or
maybe this is an orientation, or maybe we'll just keep
moving these goalposts. And so I think really that when
it comes down to it, right wing and left wing,
whether we're even talking about literature or not comes down
to these ideas of do you understand things to be
good and evil? Not that everything is black and white,
but that there are definitive things to stand for and
things to stand against, and that if this person is
a bad guy or whatever it is, you can just
say he gets wrecked, you know what I mean? And
personally you can live your life any way you want to.
But I think at the end of it, it's best
to have lived in a direct fashion and said, I
made a decision. I went with the decision. I believed
in myself, and I trusted the choices that I made.
Then to say, well, nothing was certain, ever, I don't
know well.
Speaker 3: And you even see that in the etymology of the
the word sinister, right, the idea from Latin, of course,
of you know left handed? Why is being left handed sinister? Well,
you can shake someone's hand and then shank them with
your good arm. Right, it's the idea of that kind
of pretense that you know, that double dealing. And it
goes back to what we were saying earlier about the
kind of I guess we could say like potemic left
and right version of conflict, where you know when these
worms are going after you or going after me, Like
how often they show up at your front doorstep? Right,
you know, say what you will about the IRA, but
you know a car bomb is at least definite. No,
it's never that, right. It is the roundabout. It's the
I'm going to tell people what you've said, or I'm
going to talk to your not even talk, send an
email to your boss from a fake email address. Right.
It is this sort of indirect way to I mean
like economically or socially assassinate someone instead of like, let's
have it out right if you're wrong, you were wrong.
Speaker 2: Well you brought up the IRA. I'm sure you're probably
familiar with the movie Michael Collins, but there's a great
part in Michael Collins with Liam Neeson where they're sitting
there and he's dictating the letter, you know, to everyone
who works for the Crown, you know, the Feds, And
he dictates the letter and it's in very clear English
and he says, you know, send it to everybody. And
the guy says, well, you know what this means, right,
And he says what and he goes, we've actually got
to start killing him, you know if they don't agree,
and he they you know, they send it. And I
always thought that was a great scene, not because I'm
pro Ira, but because it's a great example of the
idea that sending messages is not activism or it's not action,
it's it's talking, and that at a certain point that
talk has to have something behind it, otherwise people are
going to learn that it's just talk. And like we
talked about earlier, it's it's very easy to send messages
to people from a thousand miles away. But what you're
starting to see that's been quite interesting is you're starting
to see this happen the other way around. And I
remember this was years ago, but one of my favorite bands,
band called Destroyer six sixty six, was on tour in
the United States for the first time in a long
time with another band who I enjoyed a lot called Wattain,
and Destroyer was very politically unpopular at the time because
of some of the stuff that they would say, some
of the tattoos that the guy's got and everything like that,
and so a really popular leftist heavy metal site started saying, Hey,
here's all these shows on the tour, it's time for
direct action. And so the band said, they talked to
some of their fans, and those fans gave them these people,
these journalists, real names and home addresses, and he posted
it on the Facebook and he said, let's see whose
fans are crazier. Now, you probably might go to jail
for something like that. I don't know, but the article
was retracted. The people absolutely panicked and pissed down their
leg just as a simple turn about as fair play
type situation. And so what happens when these people get
their shit put out in public and they get docked
is they very very very quickly panic and shell up.
And like you said, I think that's because they know
that there's a lot of folks on this side of
things who might say, well, I'm not like you. I'm
going to directly solve this situation. And you, personally, this
journalist or that journalist have been responsible for a great
number of negative things that have happened to me in
my life. There's a few that I could name right here.
They know who they are, and I'm sure they'll watch
this because they watch everything that I do. But that
they've caused me a lot of negative shit, and I'm
sure that will overjoy them to hear. But it doesn't matter,
because I'll always be fine. I'll continue to thrive. And
the fact is that they're literally attempting to starve you,
which means they're trying to starve your family, which means
they're trying to kill your kids. And that's actually what
it is at the end of the day. And every
single one of them who's done that, they know what
will happen to them if I'm ever given the chance
to see them in person, They'll have a heart attack
before I could probably get anywhere near them, you know
what I mean. But that's what it comes down to,
is that we're people of action. And what they like
to do is they like to write, and they like
to talk, and they like to report and then say, oh, well,
I'm just I'm just hoarding on this as I cost
you your job and all the rest of this kind
of shit. But they might find out someday it costs
them everything.
Speaker 3: Well, you see this in Machiavelli, right, the Foxes and Lions.
His two types of leaders. And you know, much like
the the masculine, the feminine, the yin and the yang,
there are excesses in both directions, and a healthy society
needs both, right, you cannot have a society of men,
very clearly, you cannot have a society of women, although
we have certainly made an attempt of it. But he
describes the foxes and lions, right. Obviously, the lion is
the man of action. He cites you know, Charlemagne not
to bring up a sensitive subject.
Speaker 2: You know, is the kind of archetype I got it.
Speaker 3: But you know, the kind of guy who basically says, well,
I'm in charge and if you don't agree, I've got swords.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 3: It is the kind of archetype of that you see
that throughout history. Whereas you know, the fox is you know,
the manager, the guy who you know has a cunning
plan for everything. And of course you know these tend
to move in kind of a sin way, right first,
you know, one moves to excess declines. But I think
that we are in an era of foxes, right there
are no lions to be found. And one of the
great things about that kind of like decisive, you know,
man of action is the you know, the sort of
parable of the Gordian knot right, this intractable problem that
exists for hundreds of years. The wisest man you know
across the world can't solve it until Alexander walks up
with a sword and cuts it in half, right fulfilling
the prophecy and becoming the man who ruled the world.
And to be honest, to go back to you know,
to go back to Conan, to go back to you know,
these sort of pulp figures, or even the kind of
heroes of antiquity. There's something incredibly refreshing about Oh, you
know Grendel has kicked down the door. Well, I'm going
to rip his arm off. That solved the problem, you know,
instead of this like, you know, kind of indirect you know,
sort of gun shy, non confrontational version where everything is
done in a roundabout way, everything is managed, nothing is
actually solved. More Goth, who's you know a thinker that
I have you know, taken a lot from Uh he
compared that to a to a lesbian relationship j R.
Tolkien No Morgoth's review. He's an English blogger. Yeah, yeah,
I heard him.
Speaker 2: I was like, you were like, I've taken a lot
from him. I'm like, my brother, You'll be.
Speaker 3: The funny story about that he's told it a billion times,
is that, uh he got his start back when you know,
the newspaper online still had comment sections, so he'd be
saying the sort of things you and I would say
immediately get banned. And so the way that he kept
doing it was he just went to a list of
Lord of the Rings characters and went down in alphabetical order,
and more goth was kicked off. He's like, yeah, I
feel a little bad, you know, putting on the kind
of visage of folk and Satan, but it's the name
you get stuck with.
Speaker 2: Anyway.
Speaker 3: Sorry that was an off topic, but good Paul, dude,
this has been a ton of fun. I can't believe
it took me this long to have you on. Where
can people find you? Where can they find your work?
Speaker 2: You can go to Operation Werewolf dot com. Don't share
that link on Instagram, it will get you banned, but
you can find me there and it has links to
my telegram. You can find tons of articles and stuff
on there, and also the podcast. My podcast is called
Call Signed Werewolf, which you can also find by googling.
It's a free subscription and you can check it out
anytime you want. I have to use gum road. It's
what's left to me. I know, it's not the best
platform out there. But I did want to say one
last thing real quick, which is on the idea of
what you were talking about with this Foxes and Lions,
and as a big Evolva fan, there's a great quote
where he's talking about what's needed for the age that
we're in, and he calls it a kind of barbarism,
like a type of brutal chivalry, for a new dark age.
And it's something that I've used a lot in a
lot of my imagery with Right Action and some of
the other projects that I've done. But I do think
that what we need now is I'm not saying it's
a bad thing to read. I'm a reader myself. I'm
not saying it's a bad thing to be an intellectual.
It's always going to be good to have those guys.
But I think that the intellectuals have to become men
of action too, And I think the men of action
have to educate themselves because we we require four square
guys in this in this ongoing sort of culture war
that we're engaged in, and we can't any of us
really afford to just be hyper hyper hyper focused on
the one thing. So you know, I would exhort everybody.
If you're if you're really smart but you're out of shape,
or let's be honest, if you if you're a fat ass, man,
there's so many people who will help you out and
who will encourage you and everything like that on our
side of things to train with them or give you
free programs or plans or whatever, just to get you
pointed in the right direction. If you're if you're strawny
or whatever. Man, all you got to do is just
eat some more. And we've got to be helping each
other out, helping each other make more money, helping each
other make the right choices, helping each other make these
communities come together, and helping challenge each other to make
sure that we can all rise to the occasion and
make sure that we win this thing once and for all.
Speaker 3: Well, dude, I mean honestly, man, Like, that's the sort
of coolest thing I've seen in training is watching that
kind of one year two year transformation right where you
see this like you see like a Ned Flanders looking guy.
You know, you meet him, like he's a nice guy,
and then you know, a year, a year and a
half later, right, he's knocking down a should I say
a prominent right wing influencer three times at a kickboxing fight,
You're like, that's awesome.
Speaker 2: That was a really good one. And and and shout
out to all those guys who went down there to that.
You know, my my bro, mar my bro Haram, my
bro Skinny, all these guys who are right now doing this,
and they're working with these guys not just training, but
they're doing these you know, hooligan style like seven on
seven matches and shit out in the woods and stuff.
And after every single one of them, what you see
is everybody lines up, they come through, they shake hands,
they give each other hugs and everything like that. And
I watch a bunch of the comments on their stuff
when they post it, and you know, it's a lot
of people saying, are these guys Nazis whatever? This or that.
But the other one that you'll see, there's a lot
of positive comments too. But one of the other negative
ones you see is, you know, a bunch of morons
like knocking the shit out of each other in the woods.
And you go, well, this is the closest thing that
you can come to experiencing like a real brawl without
being in a real brawl. Now, of course, nobody's trying
to kill you or whatever. There's definitely a difference, but
it's the closest you can get to that without getting
in trouble or risking you know, life and limb. And
yet all these guys still on the right are still saying, oh,
don't you think you should be doing something a little
more important for whatever? And you go, no, no, no,
this is important. These guys are young, they're chasing glory,
they're chasing personal distinguishment in combat and all the rest.
They're doing the right stuff. And if you're interested in that,
if you're a younger guy or whatever, if you're a
tough guy and you want to get involved with that,
just look up Forest Fights Forest Fights USA, I think
it is on Instagram, and reach out to those guys
and get up with them, because they're doing a ton
of positive stuff for the young guys right now. All
the active clubs that are out there are doing positive
stuff for the young guys, and they have been for
a long time now. So if you're not locally involved
with something like this, there's really no reason not to be.
You know, get together, train and experience a little bit
of shared hardship and adversity. It's very good for you,
very good for the soul, and it's good for the
whole thing in general.
Speaker 3: You know well, and honestly, man like, it's something that
you know, in a very small version, I've seen my
own life because like I was, like I was a
high school fat kid. You know, I was not, and
still not, if we're being one hundred percent honest, particularly athletic,
and like I had a really dramatic situation that got
basically moulded by a pit bull. And I was like,
oh shoot, I was unprepared for that, Like that came
out of nowhere. I had nothing, And like, okay, sure,
that's a dramatic, punctuated event where you're like, all right,
I don't know if.
Speaker 2: You're ever prepared to be attacked by a pit bull.
Speaker 3: Well, fair enough, But when you were in a situation
where you're like, well I was, I had nothing, Like
I didn't have, you know, peace on me. I didn't
have any physical ability And okay, fair enough. I'm not
going to say I would you know, throw a triangle
up one getting you know, moulded by a pit bull.
Speaker 2: It's probably maybe you.
Speaker 3: I mean, look, I guess the you know, that medical
procedure runs you a lot more if you do it
at the hospital, a pit bull, do it for free.
Speaker 2: But in all seriousness, right time we wrestle, I'll just
only attack you with my teeth and see what happened?
Is that? Is that? What operation? Where? Wolf? It's all about?
Speaker 3: Right, you're just biting people? The point is, right that
like that realization that like, okay, yeah, fair enough, if
you are you know, the hypothetical four hundred pound guy,
you're thirty five, maybe you're not gonna make a run
for gold at the Olympics. Okay, fair enough. But also
like you have a a great degree of agency in
your life and that process in and of itself is
good for you. It will make you better. And I
mean going all the way back to the beginning, right
that that kind of you know, I guess you could
say like kind of quest for status or respect, Like
there are way worse ways to do it than that.
But Paul Man, this was a ton of fun.
Speaker 2: Dude, I really appreciate it.
Speaker 3: And yeah, to everyone at home, keep your head up,
good night, but not butt throu the Bagari Everagari problem.