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Speaker 1: Meaning a live man like this man letting butterfly flapping

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his wing.

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Speaker 2: Dig down in the forest.

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Speaker 1: Man, it gonna cause the tree fall, letting five thousand

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miles away.

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Speaker 2: Man, nobody seen, nobody.

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Speaker 1: You don't need to know many story and you got

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back like that. That's way, man, don't blackly dang on

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the panel, man, man, Man.

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Speaker 3: All right, Paul Wagner, Welcome to Jay Burdon Show.

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Speaker 2: How are you doing? Man, I'm doing really well. Good

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to be here.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, man, I'm glad to have you on. Uh. You

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and I have known each other for a while, had

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had a bunch of really interesting conversations, and it took

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some random guy on Twitter just dming me and being like, hey,

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you ever talked to this guy? I was like, oh, yeah,

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I guess I do have a show. So yeah, man,

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I'm happy to have you on.

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Speaker 2: Well, right on, I'm glad to be here. Like you said,

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we've had some pretty good conversations and I'm sure we'll

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have another good one for your listeners today. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Sure, thing.

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Speaker 2: Man.

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Speaker 3: So obviously I know who you are, but my audience

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might not so. Well, who are you and what do

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you do?

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Speaker 2: I'm Paul Wagner, I'm I've done a lot of different stuff.

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I guess I'm like sort of a jack of all trades,

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but I've been a pro musician. A lot of folks

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on here might know me for my project, Operation Werewolf,

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which is I've called it a project of total life reform.

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It's sort of equal parts fitness routine and philosophical approach

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to life, as well as kind of almost like a

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kickstart kit for active clubs, crews, tribal organizations and things

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like that. I've done a lot of stuff in the

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in the business world and things like that as well.

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I'm a black belt in Brazilian jiu jitsu and I

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run my own crew called the Wolves of England, which

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if you google you'll find quite a bit that mostly

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our detractors have to say about us, but it's in

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the same keeping with everything I do. It's a group

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of guys who are interested in that sort of communal

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and family lifestyle as well as martial training, fitness training,

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and for us, our lifestyle centers pretty heavily around paganism

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and things like that. Although I understand that word is

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a bit loaded and means different things to different people,

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but that sort of sums up kind of the totality.

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But I've done quite a lot of different stuff, and

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I enjoy sort of a broad approach to life, so

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I try to stay involved in as many different things

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as I can.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, man, I'm glad you brought up the sort of

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the training and the martial arts, right, because one, obviously

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there's been sort of this explosion in particularly and grappling

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in the last couple of years. Probably an understatement, but

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You've been around for a long time and I'm curious

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to get your perspective on that.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 3: How is something that was relatively obscure changed where now

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it's like, you know, Joe Rogan, who's the one of

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the most famous people in the world, won't shut up

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about jiu jitsu and has it for the last decade.

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Speaker 2: No matter how much people might want him to. Yeah.

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I mean when I was a kid, I would say

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that my experience was probably pretty similar to a lot

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of people my age. I'm in my early forties now,

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and it was I was introduced to it the same

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way most Americans were, which was my older brothers brought

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home UFC one videotape back when it was back in

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the Faces of Death area by the adult video section

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or whatever, and we watched it and there was this

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little guy wearing pajamas who you know, housed everybody. And

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so that was the first time I'd heard of Brazilian

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jiu jitsu, and there was nowhere to train. I grew

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up in Chyen, Wyoming, so this wasn't a thing, and

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back then in the nineties that would have been the

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early nineties, there was nowhere to train almost anywhere unless

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you lived in a couple of select locations sort of

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the Brazilian invasion hadn't happened yet. You know, it's crazy

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hearing stories from my own coach, who's been a black

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belt since ninety nine, I think somewhere around there under

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Carlson Gracie Junior, where a purple belt back then was

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a black belt, and you know what I mean, Nowadays

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blue belts could have probably torn their way through most

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brown belts or even probably some of the black belts

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back then. So it's definitely been a crazy thing to see.

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I didn't get into training it until I was in

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my twenties, and then I didn't i would say, start

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training it really seriously until my eight twenties and around

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thirty and yeah. I mean even then, it was kind

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of like having an assault rifle. Back then, that would

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have been Oh, I don't know, what is that twelve thirteen,

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fourteen years ago in my late late twenties, and not

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a lot of people were training at any kind of

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serious level. And so now you know, it's a it's

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a household thing. I think it's hard to go somewhere

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if you go to a bar without meeting like at

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least somebody who does MMA. It's cool. I think it's

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it's rad. You know what it's done for the sport.

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A ton of people train grappling now and so you've

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watched the skill level just goes crazy. You know, I'm

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a I'm a black belt, but I'll watch kids at

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IBJJF at blue belt and purple belt and you're like,

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I don't know that I want to get in there

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with some of those guys. You know, every time something

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is popularized, the level of it is always going to

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come up and rise to that. So I think it's great.

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I think it's great people are making money doing it.

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You know, it's it's never going to have the privacy

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of mixed martial arts because frankly, people want to watch

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people get punched in the face, and I think that

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grappling is is or can be quite boring to people

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who don't do it themselves. I think that no ge

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is a lot more exciting for people to watch sometimes,

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especially the rule sets that push a lot of action,

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big takedowns, ADCC and that kind of stuff. But it's

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it's great. I think, you know, it's wonderful. It's an

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excellent martial art and it's cool to see people practice it.

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Speaker 3: One of the things, and I've said this before both

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on air and off, I like my gym. I would

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go to my gym if it were a boxing gym whatever.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 3: I enjoy jiu jitsu, but I'm not a jiu jitsu

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got you know that in that way. And one of

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the things you'll often see because people are always criticizing

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that world because look like it's pretty weird, you know,

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there's some definite uh I guess we could say special characteristics,

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you know. But one of the things that you hear

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people say is they will look at, you know, the

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kind of most egregious examples of like you know, competitive

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butt scooting, you know, the kind of really ridiculous stuff

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and say, well, This doesn't look like fighting, right, This

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looks like some sort of game. So I'm curious, genuinely, like,

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what is your perspective on the purpose of training, right,

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and how does competition sort of meet.

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Speaker 2: Up with that? Yeah, I think that there's a there's

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always people who have said stuff, probably better than I

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ever will. There's an old head named Chris Howider who's

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a legend in the sport. He's one of the Dirty

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Dozen that's the first twelve Americans to get their black belts,

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and he talks about the idea of sport versus street

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and that back then the whole culture of jiu jitsu

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back then was a lot more machismo and a lot

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more I guess thugged out. You know, it's it's Brazilian

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guys who used to go and dojo storm each other

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down in Brazil and then they're up here training guys

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in California. And back in the early days in the nineties,

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you'd hear about that stuff, dojo storming and people going

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over to you know, mess dudes up and everything like that.

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And so I think back then you saw a lot

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more of the combat element of jiu jitsu. I think

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it can look kind of comedic. Now you see these

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sort of like Gracie self defense, and I don't put

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a ton of stock in some of that, the more

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provmagach kind of stuff. You know, you see guys training

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with with guns, but the guys holding it way out

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from his body and all the rest of this kind

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of thing. But I think that what you see with

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anything as it becomes competitive, you need a way to

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be able to go one hundred percent, and grappling allows

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you to train at one hundred percent a lot of

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the time. And so you're gonna see sport adaptations because

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then it's no longer necessarily about fighting, it's about winning

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the tournament, and long it's within the rules of the tournament,

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you're gonna see stuff that you will do on the

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mats at IBJJF that I might not do behind the bar.

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You know, I'm not gonna try to barm bolo or

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run an Inminari role on a guy if I'm in

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a fight out on the street. But I think that

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there's a worthwhile distinction to be made here, which is

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then you get the other type of guys who say, well,

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this doesn't actually work. It's a sport martial art but

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jiu jitsu at its core is about feet to floor

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and then oftentimes lim control, lim destruction, strangling, domination, but

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it's still about positional control, and it's still about positional

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control on the feet. I used to get into a

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lot of fights when I was a younger guy, and

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when I started training jiu jitsu, it was, like I said,

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it was like having a gun if you were against

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the guy who had never done any wrestling or jiu jitsu.

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And I would say wrestling back then was like having

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a gun too. You'd watch these guys devastate people in

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street fights. So I would say that the point of training,

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as Chris Howarder said, is he says, you know, think street,

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train sport, and practice the art. That's a paraphrase. I'm

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sure he said it smoother. But even while you're training

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the sport, which we do down at my gym all

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the time, you know, you'll have a guy camping out

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and somebody will start to kind of touch his face

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or whatever, or some of the guys like to train

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with them m a gloves on, so that you just

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get reminded what works and what doesn't work when striking

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is involved. And that's why I started training. I started

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training because I wanted to be more capable and better

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able to handle myself. And now I'm in my forties,

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I'm pretty unlikely to get into a bar fight that

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I couldn't have handled that purple belt. And I just

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keep training because I like the art. And you know,

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I'm not in there going nuts or winning any titles

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or anything like that. I just like to practice the art.

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You know, it's fun.

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Speaker 3: It's interesting thing because obviously, if we're talking about why

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this has gotten more popular, some of it's the social

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media aspect, right. You know, you've got funny guys doing

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things that go viral. You know, you've got celebrities people like.

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Obviously that's going to produce some sort of reaction. But

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I think another part of it is that, at a

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very fundamental level, and this is a line from someone

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I can't remember who I stole it from, that guys

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like to fight and women like guys who fight. Right,

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it's a very kind of core part of you know,

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like the male brain, and that has been so thoroughly

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pushed out of most aspects of culture that you know,

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when you see something competitive, when you see something related

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to combat, even if you're not actually, you know, stomping

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the guy out. Like you can see why, especially young

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men are drawn to that. And sorry if you want

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to react to that.

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Speaker 2: Well, And I was.

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Speaker 3: Even thinking about this because you know, I was lucky

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enough to go to a school that was sort of

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behind the times, but I definitively remember, even in the

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mid twenty tens, when the both guys involved in a

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fight get suspended, no matter what rule came through. And thankfully,

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you know, some of the teachers I had were guys

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they sort of got it and would kind of, you know,

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all right, stand up, shake hands, whatever. But even if

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that behavior gets punished and pushed out of most people's lives,

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there's still a desire for it, and there's still a

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desire to prove yourself to become in whatever context, dangerous.

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And so I wonder if that's part of the reason

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why you know, we're sort of seeing this, you know,

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martial arts renaissance, is because especially young men, they want

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to prove themselves, right, they want to be capable.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that that statement that you started with,

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where the guys like to fight in girls like guys

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who fight, I think that you could maybe correct that

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and say that guys want to be respected and women

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like guys who are respected, and I think that they

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will like that no matter or what gets those guys

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that respect, because and this is a pretty broad term,

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but when women see men, and this is a thing

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that I try to remind as many young guys as

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I can who are out chasing women, is that you

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don't have to chase women. What you do is you

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pursue the respect of your peers. And if you're someone

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who is highly respected by your peers, women will see

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that and they'll desire that because you're high on the

250
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totem pole, and that's very natural social stuff, and it's

251
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very very natural for people to want that. You know,

252
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nobody wants to be with the I don't know, the

253
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bridge troll or whatever, you know what I mean, He's

254
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supposed to be a high performer. And so I think

255
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that that a lot of the time can change based

256
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on the culture. Right, what gets you respect? I would

257
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say that certainly for guys on the right, you're seeing

258
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a really huge resurgence of young guys who are out

259
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there wanting to fight and wanting to train. I think

260
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for a long time youth was just lost in general,

261
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especially for the last many years. And I think what

262
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you're seeing, and I would say I've only seen this

263
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through some of my younger friends in the last couple

264
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of years, is that they're really dissatisfied with with sort

265
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of the vapid culture of the last like long time.

266
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They're they're tired of all the drinking and the drugs

267
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for the most part, and all the rest, and they

268
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want something vital, and they want something exciting, and they

269
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want something dangerous. And of course this is you know,

270
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is very Nietzsche and it's they want danger and play.

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And so I think fighting and women and all the

272
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rest of that kind of stuff comes along with this

273
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extremely sort of radical philosophy of you're either going to

274
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have this kind of guy or the other kind of guy.

275
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You're you know, And I remember when I was in

276
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my thirties, maybe my twenties, you were seeing the sort

277
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of come up of this guy, this type of guy

278
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who only wore shirts ironically, and he would say, well,

279
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I just always thought fighting was really stupid, and girls

280
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would be like, oh hahaha, totally, and that kind of

281
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guy was the guy. And now I think you're seeing

282
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it go back to a more natural way, where what's

283
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desirous is what is strong, and what's powerful, and what's

284
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powerful is kind of what's always been powerful, you know

285
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what I mean?

286
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Speaker 3: Well, And to that point, I think a big part

287
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of it, I say this as someone who's on the

288
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kind of upper end of gen Z, is that for

289
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a while there was sort of a shrinking portion, kind

290
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of like the iceberg was melting, where if you were

291
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a straight white guy, you could be on the right

292
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side of history or you could be an ally And

293
00:15:44,120 --> 00:15:46,480
in different places it happened in different times, but when

294
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I was going to college, it was pretty clear that

295
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really the only way I was going to be able

296
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to do that is if I completely sold out any

297
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dignity whatsoever, right, if I just went along with everything,

298
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if I just kind of ritually beat myself for what

299
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I was. And I don't even think that realization was

300
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political per se. It's something like I sat down, It's like, ah, yes,

301
00:16:07,320 --> 00:16:09,519
this is the conclusion. But I think for a lot

302
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of people it's a very gut level reaction, like no,

303
00:16:12,159 --> 00:16:15,279
I'm not taking that deal. I'm not just gonna be

304
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your designated whipping boy. And of course people take that

305
00:16:18,559 --> 00:16:20,399
in a bunch of different directions. But I think that

306
00:16:21,679 --> 00:16:24,840
if you were, you know, the guy in the smoky boardroom,

307
00:16:24,960 --> 00:16:27,879
right the like president of Evil Incorporated, laying out the

308
00:16:27,919 --> 00:16:31,000
grand plan, whoever that guy is, if you had said,

309
00:16:31,039 --> 00:16:33,919
like all right, like just keep keep going, but like

310
00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:36,440
tone down the rhetoric, you know, don't go after young

311
00:16:36,440 --> 00:16:39,360
guys so much. You could have kept that up for

312
00:16:39,360 --> 00:16:42,960
another thirty years. But the temperature turned up, you know,

313
00:16:43,039 --> 00:16:45,960
the level of you know, I don't know you want

314
00:16:45,960 --> 00:16:47,799
to call it, because it isn't really aggression. It's like

315
00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:51,000
passive aggression got got to the point where it's like

316
00:16:51,960 --> 00:16:56,080
my friends who aren't political, who aren't on the internet, like,

317
00:16:56,360 --> 00:16:59,200
and I'm sure you've experienced the same thing are saying

318
00:16:59,279 --> 00:17:03,360
things now and normal conversation that five ten years ago

319
00:17:03,919 --> 00:17:06,559
you had to be in a very specific subculture to hear.

320
00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:08,519
And so I think a lot of that is reactive.

321
00:17:09,079 --> 00:17:12,119
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think there's a huge ziegeist right now and

322
00:17:13,160 --> 00:17:15,440
a lot of it is being driven by gen Z.

323
00:17:15,559 --> 00:17:18,240
And I think one of the cool things about some

324
00:17:19,119 --> 00:17:21,240
sort of sub elements of gen Z is that they

325
00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:24,079
if you allow me to be crass from it, and

326
00:17:24,079 --> 00:17:27,200
they just don't give a fuck, and that they've heard

327
00:17:27,599 --> 00:17:32,039
so much of this garbage for so long that any

328
00:17:32,160 --> 00:17:36,480
generation wants to rebel against authority. And so for us

329
00:17:36,559 --> 00:17:38,680
that looked a little bit different, you know. For me

330
00:17:38,759 --> 00:17:41,680
in my forties, that was different. And my upbringing was

331
00:17:42,039 --> 00:17:45,400
was conservative Christians. So for me, it was tattoos and

332
00:17:45,920 --> 00:17:49,000
fighting and I was a skinhead when I was younger

333
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and everything like that. And in my teens that was

334
00:17:52,559 --> 00:17:56,440
kind of how you got into that lifestyle of well,

335
00:17:56,480 --> 00:17:58,119
what's going to get me into a lot of fights,

336
00:17:58,240 --> 00:18:02,799
you know, and holy cow, it did it, and that

337
00:18:03,319 --> 00:18:06,640
back then you would clear a room if you said

338
00:18:06,720 --> 00:18:08,359
some of the stuff that I see these kids just

339
00:18:08,480 --> 00:18:11,519
meaning about now, you know, And I think it's wonderful.

340
00:18:11,799 --> 00:18:14,920
I think that a it shows that the younger generation

341
00:18:15,039 --> 00:18:16,680
has still got a little bit of a spirit of

342
00:18:16,799 --> 00:18:18,960
rebellion in them, which I think is always good and

343
00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:21,519
it shakes things up. And I think especially what they're

344
00:18:21,559 --> 00:18:25,680
rebelling against now deserves to be rebelled against. And one

345
00:18:25,720 --> 00:18:27,799
of the ways that it's going to get rebelled against

346
00:18:28,119 --> 00:18:32,279
his physical culture and active culture, and that's weight lifting

347
00:18:32,319 --> 00:18:35,400
and it's fighting. But it's also I think, and I'm

348
00:18:35,400 --> 00:18:37,559
a big proponent of this. I think it's is analog

349
00:18:37,640 --> 00:18:42,960
culture is less digital everything, less digital mediation, more more sun,

350
00:18:43,119 --> 00:18:45,599
more steel, you know, being outdoors and all the rest

351
00:18:45,599 --> 00:18:48,119
of us. And this was a huge thing, you know,

352
00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:51,720
during in pre World War two Germany, you saw the

353
00:18:52,960 --> 00:18:55,759
sort of the rise of the Vandervogel and all the

354
00:18:56,440 --> 00:18:59,960
sort of like solar aspect stuff, and people were trying

355
00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:02,000
to eat better, and they were trying to be more

356
00:19:02,079 --> 00:19:05,319
active and forming boxing clubs and going out and playing

357
00:19:05,440 --> 00:19:07,440
music out in the mountains and stuff rather than just

358
00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:09,319
going to the bar another night and all this. And

359
00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:11,720
I think that the more things change, the more they

360
00:19:11,799 --> 00:19:14,400
stay the same. You know, when people feel that something

361
00:19:14,519 --> 00:19:18,279
is completely corrupt and that they feel the finger in

362
00:19:18,319 --> 00:19:21,680
their chest saying and it's you who are the loser

363
00:19:21,799 --> 00:19:24,599
and who should feel guilty and all the rest. At

364
00:19:24,599 --> 00:19:26,400
a certain point, young men are just going to get

365
00:19:26,440 --> 00:19:29,400
tired of that narrative and say screw it. And then

366
00:19:29,440 --> 00:19:31,920
I think when they're able to sort of turn the

367
00:19:32,039 --> 00:19:35,720
tide of that gets you kicked out of polite society.

368
00:19:35,759 --> 00:19:37,880
But hey, look at this big other society that we're

369
00:19:37,920 --> 00:19:40,079
forming around that type of idea. Then I think you're

370
00:19:40,079 --> 00:19:42,759
going to see you're going to see those guys getting

371
00:19:42,759 --> 00:19:44,160
a lot of respect. And then I think you're going

372
00:19:44,200 --> 00:19:46,079
to see those guys getting a lot of women. And

373
00:19:46,160 --> 00:19:48,000
I think that then the tide is really going to

374
00:19:48,039 --> 00:19:50,119
shift when all of a sudden, that is the cool

375
00:19:50,200 --> 00:19:52,319
thing to do again, that it's not cool to be

376
00:19:52,480 --> 00:19:57,799
a worm and go around, you know, licking the dust

377
00:19:58,039 --> 00:20:00,880
and going along with the narrative, and that it's like

378
00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:04,759
Jack London says, it's the inevitable white man. It's an

379
00:20:04,839 --> 00:20:06,160
unstoppable thing. You know.

380
00:20:07,559 --> 00:20:12,039
Speaker 3: Well, and on that point, I've had this conversation with,

381
00:20:12,519 --> 00:20:17,319
you know, a couple of my friends who are you know,

382
00:20:17,480 --> 00:20:19,559
like hedge fund guys, the kind of people that in

383
00:20:19,640 --> 00:20:24,119
a normal time aren't really interested in politics particularly and

384
00:20:24,240 --> 00:20:26,200
when we say politics, we understand what we mean, right,

385
00:20:26,240 --> 00:20:28,599
I'm not talking about like, you know what the Senate

386
00:20:28,759 --> 00:20:31,480
is doing, right, but aren't interested in this sort of stuff.

387
00:20:32,440 --> 00:20:35,640
And you know, really I'm thinking about my buddy Stormy.

388
00:20:35,680 --> 00:20:38,839
He basically said, He's like, look like thirty years ago,

389
00:20:39,480 --> 00:20:42,279
I'd be making money, That's all I would be caring about.

390
00:20:42,799 --> 00:20:45,279
And I see that same pattern in a different way

391
00:20:45,640 --> 00:20:49,640
at many different levels, right where it's guys who you

392
00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:52,880
can imagine them, you know, if they were their parents' age,

393
00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:56,599
never even indexing with this because it seemed really distant,

394
00:20:56,680 --> 00:21:00,759
didn't seem like it mattered, and look for people my age,

395
00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:03,480
like the pandemic was sort of like my personal Vietnam.

396
00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:06,720
Will never shut up about it, but like it was

397
00:21:06,799 --> 00:21:10,119
a very formative experience because if you were following the

398
00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:13,880
track exactly, you're doing everything you're supposed to, You're in school,

399
00:21:13,920 --> 00:21:16,359
you're studying, and all of a sudden you're an outlaw,

400
00:21:16,799 --> 00:21:18,920
Like I almost got dropped from school because of a

401
00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:21,920
medical choice, which like, okay, you know, looking back on it,

402
00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:24,799
as you know a guy in his late twenties, you're like, okay,

403
00:21:24,799 --> 00:21:26,799
I would have been fine. But in that moment, you're

404
00:21:26,839 --> 00:21:29,079
twenty year like, oh shoot, is my whole life over.

405
00:21:29,799 --> 00:21:32,720
It was a really interesting breakpoint because all of a sudden,

406
00:21:32,759 --> 00:21:35,839
it's like, oh, they can kick me out of, as

407
00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:37,920
you said, polite society for any reason.

408
00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:40,160
Speaker 2: So who cares?

409
00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:44,079
Speaker 3: Right, why not just hoist the blast black flag? Because

410
00:21:44,079 --> 00:21:46,160
I mean they're gonna do it anyway, right, There's gonna

411
00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:50,000
be something else, particularly if you are on that edge

412
00:21:50,200 --> 00:21:53,319
of you know, that shrinking kind of Iceberg, right, of

413
00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:55,799
the last people who could still be on side.

414
00:21:56,960 --> 00:21:58,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think I think that's one of the

415
00:21:58,599 --> 00:22:02,240
things that has been really cool to see in my

416
00:22:02,359 --> 00:22:04,759
own crew is that, you know, you've got a lot

417
00:22:04,839 --> 00:22:07,680
of guys who are like my age and older. So

418
00:22:07,839 --> 00:22:09,880
I'm one of the younger old guys, you know what

419
00:22:09,960 --> 00:22:12,039
I mean. It's kind of like forty and up. And

420
00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:14,880
then you got kind of another couple of guys who

421
00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:18,079
are sort of like mid thirties and down, and there's

422
00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:21,000
kind of just a divide there. But what's interesting to

423
00:22:21,079 --> 00:22:25,240
see is that you have this sort of attitude with

424
00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:28,960
all of them. And I like to hope that I've

425
00:22:29,039 --> 00:22:32,359
had some positive influence on this as a guy who

426
00:22:33,119 --> 00:22:37,119
I got kicked off everything, out of everything, I got

427
00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:38,799
kicked out of my gym and all the rest. And

428
00:22:39,279 --> 00:22:41,000
I think a lot of people when this happens, they

429
00:22:41,119 --> 00:22:43,160
just sort of shell up and are like, oh my God,

430
00:22:43,319 --> 00:22:44,720
like I have to just kind of go out and

431
00:22:44,799 --> 00:22:48,000
live in a hole. But I was like, well, I'll

432
00:22:48,039 --> 00:22:51,200
find another way to do it. And so my brother

433
00:22:51,319 --> 00:22:52,759
and I and a couple of our friends, you know,

434
00:22:52,839 --> 00:22:55,440
you build your own gym, you know, and and you

435
00:22:55,599 --> 00:22:58,279
train there and we train with who we want to.

436
00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:00,519
We don't charge a dollar to train there. We just

437
00:23:00,559 --> 00:23:02,400
train with guys who want to come in and train.

438
00:23:03,119 --> 00:23:06,119
We've got a great spot. We've got four Black belts

439
00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:08,079
there now who all train there. So it's not like

440
00:23:08,119 --> 00:23:11,400
you're not getting good instruction. All these other things that

441
00:23:11,519 --> 00:23:14,319
sort of happened. Like you said, you just raised the

442
00:23:14,319 --> 00:23:16,200
black flag and say, if this is the way life

443
00:23:16,319 --> 00:23:17,799
is going to be, then I'm going to embrace this

444
00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:20,440
and say how do I make this fun? And it

445
00:23:20,519 --> 00:23:23,440
has been fun And so then you have a lot

446
00:23:23,519 --> 00:23:25,079
of the young guys who are like, well, we'll just

447
00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:30,880
do what he did, and they don't care. There's no concern.

448
00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:33,799
I think for them that getting kicked out of one

449
00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:35,319
thing or losing your job is going to be a

450
00:23:35,359 --> 00:23:37,279
big deal. You see guys get docs now and they're like,

451
00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:40,759
tough shit, who cares you? Move on. It's happened to

452
00:23:41,039 --> 00:23:43,599
you know, hundreds of other people and they're fine. And

453
00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:47,400
so I think it's we're running the enemy out of

454
00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:50,759
options as as far as that thing goes, where they

455
00:23:50,839 --> 00:23:53,200
were able to just kind of snitch and rat and

456
00:23:53,759 --> 00:23:57,279
change the whole thing. And I think that the problem

457
00:23:57,400 --> 00:24:00,480
for them is that they're largely on pre for the

458
00:24:00,599 --> 00:24:03,400
other kind, you know what I mean, The other kind

459
00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:06,039
of conflict is not something I think that they're interested in.

460
00:24:07,079 --> 00:24:09,440
And so once they run out of ammunition and things

461
00:24:09,519 --> 00:24:14,400
to do as a rat and a snitch, where do

462
00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:15,799
you go from there with? Then you have to start

463
00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:20,119
directly confronting people. And they're not very strong on that well.

464
00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:23,400
Speaker 3: And I think that if I'm looking at you know,

465
00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:25,880
what are the things that I us kind of white pills, right,

466
00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:29,240
reasons for hope. One of the biggest ones for me

467
00:24:29,759 --> 00:24:33,119
has been the kind of art scene.

468
00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:34,119
Speaker 2: You know.

469
00:24:34,359 --> 00:24:36,599
Speaker 3: I think of my buddies, you know, Edwards Curled, all

470
00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:39,240
all those guys. And for a long time, there was

471
00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:42,279
always that premise of like, they'll be a good novel,

472
00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:45,519
they'll be a good painting, they'll be a good album soon.

473
00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:46,599
Speaker 2: Right.

474
00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:48,799
Speaker 3: It was always sometime in the future, or maybe there

475
00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:52,039
was something super underground, and then all of a sudden

476
00:24:52,119 --> 00:24:54,400
you start to see You're like, oh, hey, like that

477
00:24:55,079 --> 00:24:57,920
this tree isn't dead. I see some shoots. There's something

478
00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:00,720
coming here. And you know, there are a men's number

479
00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:03,759
of guys who have done very well for themselves self

480
00:25:03,839 --> 00:25:08,200
publishing and a lot, a lot of guys even slightly

481
00:25:08,279 --> 00:25:12,920
older than me, got into you know, right wing politics, identitarians,

482
00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:16,079
whatever you want to call it, through media. That's when

483
00:25:16,119 --> 00:25:18,279
they saw it first. You know, they saw it, you

484
00:25:18,319 --> 00:25:19,920
know in the games they were playing, in the shows

485
00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:21,640
they were watching, like, wait a minute, why am I

486
00:25:22,599 --> 00:25:25,759
inherently like what's wrong with me? I thought I was

487
00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:28,559
just the good liberal. I thought I was just you know,

488
00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:34,359
atomized individual. And initially that reaction was a lot of analysis.

489
00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:38,319
It was just constantly tearing down whatever the newest woke

490
00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:40,759
movie is, and that still exists. You can make you know,

491
00:25:40,839 --> 00:25:44,599
million dollars doing that and hopefully not blow your brains

492
00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:48,400
out saying the same thing for ten years. But that

493
00:25:48,559 --> 00:25:52,119
creative spark, not just towards building gyms or building institutions,

494
00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:55,599
but towards creating culture and creating art has been in

495
00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:57,000
my mind, very very hopeful.

496
00:25:57,279 --> 00:25:57,400
Speaker 2: Right.

497
00:25:57,519 --> 00:26:00,359
Speaker 3: That's something that is new and generative in a way

498
00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:02,519
that a previous version of right wing culture, which was

499
00:26:02,559 --> 00:26:06,559
heavily focused, ironically enough, sort of culture of critique, right,

500
00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:08,000
I think was missing.

501
00:26:09,559 --> 00:26:12,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree. And it's funny that you say that

502
00:26:12,119 --> 00:26:14,640
because I've had this conversation with several of the older

503
00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:17,960
guys here, and and that exact terminology, you know, culture

504
00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:21,319
of critique, where you're watching all these guys shit on everything,

505
00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:24,759
but they're also shitting on guys on their own ostensibly

506
00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:27,759
on their own team, which you know what I mean.

507
00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:29,799
The lines get a little blurred and things get weird

508
00:26:29,839 --> 00:26:33,839
there sometimes. But and they were tearing down everything that

509
00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:35,839
they were trying to do also, and you go, well,

510
00:26:35,839 --> 00:26:37,799
at a certain point, you're gonna have to be constructive

511
00:26:37,839 --> 00:26:40,519
here because we're not going to have that. Nobody's gonna

512
00:26:40,559 --> 00:26:43,279
have that unless people are trying to help each other out.

513
00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:46,839
And I do another podcast that I do once a

514
00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:50,599
month for a group called Hearthfire Radio that's called Right Action,

515
00:26:51,039 --> 00:26:52,920
And on the last one, I was talking about the

516
00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:56,119
idea of wealth and how how much it's held back

517
00:26:56,799 --> 00:26:59,839
guys on the right side of things in general, this

518
00:27:00,079 --> 00:27:02,519
idea that you know, money is dirty and and that

519
00:27:02,799 --> 00:27:05,119
you're if you're good at making it, then you must

520
00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:07,480
be a grifter and all the rest, and said, you know,

521
00:27:07,559 --> 00:27:09,319
when are we going to start to change our mind

522
00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:12,839
on this and really help each other do these things

523
00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:14,640
that we want to do and build these things and

524
00:27:14,759 --> 00:27:18,720
have these creative outputs that require this, rather than having

525
00:27:18,759 --> 00:27:21,920
this sort of inherited guilt idea that money is somehow evil.

526
00:27:22,279 --> 00:27:24,480
I've never heard of a war being won on an

527
00:27:24,519 --> 00:27:27,319
empty chest, you know what I mean. And so the

528
00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:29,680
cool thing is that you are starting to see a

529
00:27:29,759 --> 00:27:33,279
lot of this with with art, with music, like you said,

530
00:27:33,319 --> 00:27:37,400
with self publishing books and not just philosophical shit or

531
00:27:38,279 --> 00:27:42,960
dry stuff, but with fiction and with with yeah, music,

532
00:27:43,039 --> 00:27:46,359
things to entertain, to enjoy. And I think that one

533
00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:50,680
of the signs that people are really getting set into

534
00:27:50,799 --> 00:27:54,839
something is that they're not just thinking about the most

535
00:27:55,039 --> 00:27:59,720
serious or you know, worst case scenario. They're thinking about

536
00:28:01,759 --> 00:28:04,680
the myths and the stories and the poetics and all this.

537
00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:08,119
This is when something I think becomes beautiful rather than

538
00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:10,119
just sort of a dry philosophy that a lot of people,

539
00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:13,680
frankly aren't going to engage with. Most people, in order

540
00:28:13,759 --> 00:28:16,160
to engage with something, you have to engage them from here,

541
00:28:16,759 --> 00:28:19,920
and honestly, it's quite boring a lot of times to

542
00:28:20,039 --> 00:28:22,640
be engaged or to try to engage people from here,

543
00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:25,960
and you wind up with a lot of people who

544
00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:30,200
are sort of excellent and intellectualizing and hypothesizing about things.

545
00:28:30,559 --> 00:28:33,079
But men of action, largely in the past have been

546
00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:38,319
men of sort of mythic interests and all the rest

547
00:28:38,319 --> 00:28:39,880
of this. Give me a guy who reads Conan and

548
00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:42,960
he probably already understands at least the base ideas behind

549
00:28:43,039 --> 00:28:45,319
Nietzsche well enough, you know what I mean, and write

550
00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:48,519
fiction like that, you know what I mean. And there's

551
00:28:48,519 --> 00:28:50,039
another there's a great book by one of the guys

552
00:28:50,039 --> 00:28:53,599
who runs Imperium Press called Culture Thug, and it's cool

553
00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:55,680
and I wish i'd had it when I was like fifteen,

554
00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:59,519
because it fast tracks a lot of these ideas and

555
00:28:59,559 --> 00:29:01,440
you can kind of flip through and say, Okay, well,

556
00:29:01,519 --> 00:29:05,839
I'm probably not going to read Spangler's whole thing, but

557
00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:08,640
I've got the cliff notes from this, and if I

558
00:29:08,799 --> 00:29:11,839
do really like the idea, he gives me the sort

559
00:29:11,839 --> 00:29:15,039
of roadmap to explore that more deeply, and he covers

560
00:29:15,119 --> 00:29:17,200
a great deal of different things in there. And I

561
00:29:17,279 --> 00:29:19,759
think things like that are very valuable, where you can say, hey,

562
00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:23,279
here's sort of a crash course where you could self

563
00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:26,079
educate on the parts of this that do interest you,

564
00:29:26,559 --> 00:29:28,880
rather than kind of getting hemmed up on on oh,

565
00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:32,559
you have to read every single Julius Evola book. Otherwise

566
00:29:32,599 --> 00:29:34,240
you're not part of this thing. And you're like, well,

567
00:29:34,319 --> 00:29:36,279
I guess I'm not part of this thing. I like Evola,

568
00:29:36,359 --> 00:29:42,279
but it's dense. Yeah, I was about to say exciting reading.

569
00:29:42,119 --> 00:29:45,160
Speaker 3: Like twenty five pages into like sex magic. I was like,

570
00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:46,400
all right, dude, I'm I'm out.

571
00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:49,559
Speaker 2: This is this is that's for making his best stuff.

572
00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:54,640
I do like his but you know, Metaphysics of Power

573
00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:56,759
is real cool. I've got I don't know, I have

574
00:29:56,839 --> 00:29:58,599
a ton of his stuff over here. But yeah, I mean,

575
00:29:59,039 --> 00:30:02,400
I'm not going to talk to probably your standard fifteen

576
00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:04,079
year old kid and say, hey, you know what you

577
00:30:04,079 --> 00:30:08,279
should do is read the entire bibliography of Evola, you

578
00:30:08,359 --> 00:30:10,039
know what I mean? And I think that that's where

579
00:30:10,119 --> 00:30:14,559
we're moving. We're moving away from being like dumb ass

580
00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:16,720
gatekeeping stuff where you have to have all this and

581
00:30:16,759 --> 00:30:19,240
you have to have these intellectual credentials to be part

582
00:30:19,279 --> 00:30:22,160
of this thing, and moving more into saying what's he do?

583
00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:24,559
Is he read? Is he does? He does? He live

584
00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:27,400
the life? And you're you're going to attract a lot

585
00:30:27,519 --> 00:30:31,480
more radical guys that way, a lot more people who

586
00:30:31,519 --> 00:30:35,400
are actually men of action than just guys who are

587
00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:38,359
content to sit around in a thick sweater, smuggling a

588
00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:41,039
pipe and reading books on Roman Catholic fatherhood or whatever,

589
00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:41,960
no offense.

590
00:30:44,519 --> 00:30:47,000
Speaker 3: I think that perhaps one of the best examples of

591
00:30:47,119 --> 00:30:50,400
this is a dude I only talk to once, right,

592
00:30:51,079 --> 00:30:54,880
Matt Krattz, but he has a series of I would

593
00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:57,160
describe it as sort of a mix of like Tintin

594
00:30:57,240 --> 00:31:01,799
and asterisk asterisks, or it's sort of like for that,

595
00:31:02,039 --> 00:31:06,559
like you know, kind of like young kid to teenager,

596
00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:09,599
kind of like you know, Sword and Sorcery adventure novels.

597
00:31:10,119 --> 00:31:12,759
It's he does the illustration, does you know all the

598
00:31:12,799 --> 00:31:15,000
writing for it? And it was one of those things

599
00:31:15,039 --> 00:31:17,039
where you know, you talk to him and you're like, oh, yeah,

600
00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:19,319
like he's one of us, he's on side, he gets it.

601
00:31:19,839 --> 00:31:22,680
But you read through it and like, if you didn't

602
00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:23,799
check the date on it, you'd be like, oh, this

603
00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:25,200
could have come out in nineteen fifty.

604
00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:26,039
Speaker 2: Right.

605
00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:29,519
Speaker 3: Culturally, from a certain perspective, you could say it's it's

606
00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:31,720
right wing, or at the very least it's not subversive.

607
00:31:31,839 --> 00:31:35,079
It's true, so if that means right wing, sure, but

608
00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:36,920
it's not like you flip to the end and you

609
00:31:37,039 --> 00:31:40,000
get his manifesto, right, it's not like he's you know,

610
00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:44,160
setting out his grievances with you know, modernity or you know,

611
00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:47,839
the architects of whatever. It's just simply a piece of art.

612
00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:52,880
And I think that that's something that thankfully, i've seen

613
00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:57,680
many of the good creators on the whatever you want

614
00:31:57,720 --> 00:31:59,640
to call the right wing, right that side of things,

615
00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:04,920
successfully steering away from that sort of like didactic you know,

616
00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:07,359
political art where it feels like you're, you know, you're

617
00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:09,359
reading something off of like a you know, a four

618
00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:12,279
chan thread you know that just has some visuals so.

619
00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:15,920
Speaker 2: Boring, And it's the same thing that we accuse these

620
00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:18,680
you know, like comedians or anything of you know, where

621
00:32:19,039 --> 00:32:23,160
it's no longer comedy, it's just finger wagging from the stage. Well,

622
00:32:23,599 --> 00:32:26,319
a lot of people who are on like I know,

623
00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:28,119
we both understand what we mean when we say on

624
00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:30,920
our side of things, you know, on on the general right,

625
00:32:31,319 --> 00:32:34,480
they wind up becoming finger waggers where everything has to

626
00:32:34,559 --> 00:32:37,480
fit into this thing. And I think what you said

627
00:32:37,519 --> 00:32:39,720
there was very good where if I look at a book,

628
00:32:40,559 --> 00:32:43,319
it doesn't have to be you know, like you said,

629
00:32:43,359 --> 00:32:45,839
there doesn't have to be a manifesto underlying it. I

630
00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:50,000
just don't want it to be written by you know,

631
00:32:50,319 --> 00:32:54,079
somebody who like we we've talked about this, but it's

632
00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:56,480
like frog and toad, you know what I mean. Oh,

633
00:32:56,559 --> 00:32:58,240
it's a my parents had me read that. But it

634
00:32:58,319 --> 00:33:00,680
turns out it was written by a gay Jewish who

635
00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:02,920
wound up leaving his wife and kids to go live

636
00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:05,119
with his boyfriend in the east village, you know, or

637
00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:07,720
Mary Sendak. Everyone knows where the wild things are. Well,

638
00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:10,599
he has some pretty horrifying and creepy stuff to say

639
00:33:10,599 --> 00:33:12,839
about that, And you go, you know, oh, it's some

640
00:33:13,039 --> 00:33:16,559
Jewish guy who's you know, maybe got something bad happened

641
00:33:16,559 --> 00:33:19,279
to him by his uncles or whatever, and then he

642
00:33:19,319 --> 00:33:21,440
wrote a story about it that your kids should read.

643
00:33:22,319 --> 00:33:25,920
And it's crazy because that stuff is pernicious. But you go, hey, look,

644
00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:29,599
let's not do the same thing. On the other side,

645
00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:31,839
and I would say that we don't have to, which

646
00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:34,920
is that if it's not subversive and it's true and

647
00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:38,880
it's upright, and it's something that's victorious and positive for

648
00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:41,759
all time, we don't have to worry about falling into

649
00:33:41,799 --> 00:33:43,880
this trap. You know, you can write a kid's book

650
00:33:44,319 --> 00:33:47,160
that's just good, you know, it doesn't have to be

651
00:33:47,279 --> 00:33:50,039
teaching him a lesson about multiculturalism or this or that,

652
00:33:50,319 --> 00:33:52,599
and at the same you know, on the same hand,

653
00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:56,160
it doesn't have to be necessarily teaching him a lesson

654
00:33:56,319 --> 00:33:59,759
about whatever whatever it is that you know, a right

655
00:33:59,799 --> 00:34:02,119
way guy is trying to teach his kid about. That

656
00:34:02,279 --> 00:34:04,319
being said, I have written kids books that are you know,

657
00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:06,319
pro ancestry and all the rest of this kind of stuff,

658
00:34:06,359 --> 00:34:09,239
because I think it's worth doing a certain amount of

659
00:34:11,079 --> 00:34:13,960
uplifting there when you see and I did research on

660
00:34:14,039 --> 00:34:15,880
this and went to the kids section in Barnes and Noble,

661
00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:17,840
and I was like, shit, maybe there should be an

662
00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:22,400
alternate viewpoint here. My anti racist Baby was like a

663
00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:24,880
best seller, you know what I mean. And I'm certainly

664
00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:26,960
not going to write a book called my racist Baby,

665
00:34:27,199 --> 00:34:29,960
but you know, I mean, like, how about where you

666
00:34:30,079 --> 00:34:31,840
come from is important? And you're not a piece of

667
00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:37,360
garbage because you're a Caucasian. You know, well, if you're looking.

668
00:34:37,239 --> 00:34:40,800
Speaker 3: For and this is how you know, Paul that I'm

669
00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:45,159
a very serious podcaster with a very serious show. My

670
00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:50,039
next recording is a full length review of Cash Patel's

671
00:34:50,039 --> 00:34:55,079
series of children's books, which are basically just him talking

672
00:34:55,119 --> 00:34:57,800
about how cool he is in a wizard hat with

673
00:34:57,920 --> 00:35:01,079
Nike Air Force ones. The point is, like, you're you're

674
00:35:01,119 --> 00:35:05,079
one hundred percent right about the children's book stuff. My

675
00:35:05,159 --> 00:35:08,199
wife was a teacher that the stuff that she saw

676
00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:12,639
just in even like a relatively normal, you know, conservative town,

677
00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:17,559
it produces that sort of reaction right where you're like,

678
00:35:17,599 --> 00:35:19,559
all right, maybe it's time to get a you know,

679
00:35:19,639 --> 00:35:26,239
a a child sized clanhood out. But what you said

680
00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:31,360
earlier about you know Conan, and obviously you have you know,

681
00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:34,480
Howard's other stuff. I think that there's a lot to that.

682
00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:38,320
Because I haven't read a ton of Howard. I've read enough.

683
00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:40,199
I've sort of you know, read the the kind of

684
00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:43,960
top line stories about both you know, Conan and then

685
00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:47,559
Solomon Kane, who's my favorite just because it's so cool.

686
00:35:47,639 --> 00:35:52,440
Man is again like, there isn't really anything political to

687
00:35:52,599 --> 00:35:57,800
those stories. There's sort of primal in a way. But

688
00:35:57,920 --> 00:35:59,039
nonetheless you get this.

689
00:35:59,519 --> 00:36:01,519
Speaker 2: I mean, I think that that kind of is you know,

690
00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:05,199
like you said, when I'm younger, and I still believe,

691
00:36:06,119 --> 00:36:08,199
you know, I had a werewolf you know thing that

692
00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:10,239
was on everything, and I still believe it. You know,

693
00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:13,880
the solution is not political, and what I'm what I've

694
00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:17,280
always meant by that is that contemporary politics are not

695
00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:19,400
going to solve our problems for us. And that was

696
00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:22,280
from an Evola thing saying, let's have no more of

697
00:36:22,639 --> 00:36:24,599
present day politics, you know what I mean? That's just

698
00:36:24,719 --> 00:36:26,679
shifting from left to right in a bed of agony,

699
00:36:26,719 --> 00:36:30,119
as he says it. But that everything, in a way

700
00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:34,400
has become political, and I don't think that that's necessarily

701
00:36:34,519 --> 00:36:37,920
a good thing. But even reading Conan, if you read

702
00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:40,920
Conan now, and I'm sure there's a thousand reviews of

703
00:36:41,039 --> 00:36:46,519
Howard online saying it's racist, it's it's chauvinists, it's misogynistic,

704
00:36:46,599 --> 00:36:48,360
and all the rest, I guarantee you that's going to

705
00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:50,039
be probably some of the first stuff that comes up.

706
00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:53,199
Ditto for Tolkien and Burrows and all the other classic

707
00:36:53,280 --> 00:36:56,840
pulp guys, because all their book covers is like a

708
00:36:56,920 --> 00:36:59,360
really big guy with a chick thrown over their shoulder

709
00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:00,480
and probably a lot of cake, you.

710
00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:00,960
Speaker 3: Know what I mean.

711
00:37:01,119 --> 00:37:04,159
Speaker 2: Like that was the thing. So in a way, it

712
00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:07,800
is political already because people are attacking it. And I

713
00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:09,880
think that if people weren't attacking it and try to

714
00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:12,559
make you feel bad for reading it, it wouldn't have

715
00:37:12,679 --> 00:37:15,039
to be. But if someone asks you who are your

716
00:37:15,039 --> 00:37:19,360
favorite fiction authors and you say Kipling and Burrows and

717
00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:21,840
Howard and Tolkien, They're going to be like, oh, this

718
00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:24,679
guy must be some right wing fascist, you know, by

719
00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:28,239
nature of what he reads. So in a way, everything

720
00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:29,000
is political.

721
00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:34,639
Speaker 3: And I understand that the distinction you're making there because

722
00:37:34,639 --> 00:37:37,559
again going back to the kind of like center right

723
00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:42,840
critique of like left wing media, oftentimes they'll say like, oh,

724
00:37:43,079 --> 00:37:46,199
why are you making everything so political? The retort is,

725
00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:51,039
of course everything is political, and looking at both sides

726
00:37:51,039 --> 00:37:53,760
of it, you can see the complaint right off, like, look, man,

727
00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:56,119
like I just want to watch, you know, the new

728
00:37:56,199 --> 00:37:59,079
Star Wars movie. Why are we getting you know, some

729
00:37:59,239 --> 00:38:01,800
purple haired likes being you know, ranting at the screen.

730
00:38:02,119 --> 00:38:05,360
But on the other hand, right if we look at

731
00:38:06,239 --> 00:38:08,880
like what makes art interesting? Why we go back to

732
00:38:09,039 --> 00:38:12,199
art even from cultures very different from our own, Well,

733
00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:15,079
of course there's like an expressive value. There's a pure

734
00:38:15,199 --> 00:38:17,159
visual value of like, hey, this is cool, and I

735
00:38:17,199 --> 00:38:19,480
don't want to downplay that. But another part of it

736
00:38:19,639 --> 00:38:22,360
is you're you're getting it something true, You're getting it

737
00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:25,880
something real, and like, you know, even with you know,

738
00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:30,480
like Conan or Caane. There's there's this sort of like

739
00:38:30,719 --> 00:38:34,079
archetypal value, right, like the hero with a thousand faces

740
00:38:34,119 --> 00:38:38,159
whatever you want to say, that is deeply buried into like,

741
00:38:38,599 --> 00:38:41,559
you know, the Western human consciousness of like that is

742
00:38:41,679 --> 00:38:43,039
what it is to be a good man.

743
00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:45,440
Speaker 2: I want to be like that. You know.

744
00:38:45,559 --> 00:38:48,239
Speaker 3: It's this sort of like and you know, Carlisle will

745
00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:51,320
have called it like hero worship, but this idea and

746
00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:53,679
look like you see this in you know, the ancient world,

747
00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:57,840
you know, the the infamous case right of Caesar breaking

748
00:38:57,920 --> 00:38:59,960
down in tears in front of the bust of Alexander,

749
00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:03,519
you know, but I mean Napoleon, you know, our own

750
00:39:03,880 --> 00:39:06,039
you know, the kind of American founding fathers, whatever our

751
00:39:06,079 --> 00:39:10,440
views of them, had this concept of hero worship regard

752
00:39:10,679 --> 00:39:12,920
for the guys who came before you, this kind of

753
00:39:13,079 --> 00:39:17,039
great heroes. And I think that the pulp you're talking

754
00:39:17,079 --> 00:39:20,960
about taps into that, right. Sure they don't literally exist.

755
00:39:20,800 --> 00:39:23,079
Speaker 2: But yeah, and I think that the other thing it's

756
00:39:23,159 --> 00:39:25,519
good at too is that And and you know, I

757
00:39:25,559 --> 00:39:28,119
would make the argument that Star Wars, of course, was

758
00:39:28,159 --> 00:39:30,480
always leftist. It was it was written by you know,

759
00:39:30,639 --> 00:39:33,119
guys who were It's supposed to be kind of like

760
00:39:33,199 --> 00:39:36,519
a Vietnam sympathizing thing when you look at the interviews

761
00:39:36,519 --> 00:39:38,920
and it's it's a plucky group of misfits and disparate

762
00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:41,800
people from all over the galaxy that somehow are defeating

763
00:39:41,880 --> 00:39:45,280
this you know, organized global empire. But that one of

764
00:39:45,360 --> 00:39:49,159
the things with the work that they will hold up

765
00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:54,280
as as heroic or fantasy or whatever. And it's it's

766
00:39:54,360 --> 00:39:57,519
whatever they're doing now, whether it's Star Wars or whatever

767
00:39:57,599 --> 00:39:59,840
other piece of shit show that they're trying to run out.

768
00:40:01,039 --> 00:40:04,760
It's not just that it has to have this you know,

769
00:40:05,000 --> 00:40:08,159
diverse cast of characters and all this. It's that the

770
00:40:08,320 --> 00:40:11,719
main guy has to be moral in the way that

771
00:40:11,920 --> 00:40:16,920
they currently agree with, and not just a bad you know,

772
00:40:17,119 --> 00:40:19,000
a bad mother like I don't want to swear too

773
00:40:19,039 --> 00:40:23,039
much on your show, but that that like Conan, at

774
00:40:23,079 --> 00:40:26,440
the risk of sounding like a Jordan Peterson or a

775
00:40:26,519 --> 00:40:29,119
Tom Hardy smoking a cigar in black and white meme,

776
00:40:29,159 --> 00:40:32,639
it's that Conan's not necessarily a good guy. It's that

777
00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:35,400
he's good at being a guy, and in the classic

778
00:40:35,519 --> 00:40:38,960
sense of the word, he's strong. He overpowers everything, he

779
00:40:40,039 --> 00:40:42,880
goes at every situation directly right, You know that in

780
00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:45,880
a Conan story, you're not gonna wind up with some

781
00:40:46,239 --> 00:40:48,800
sort of Conan Doyle battle of the wits. He's just

782
00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:53,119
gonna smash everybody. Ultimately, he's not an idiot, but he

783
00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:56,760
prefers to deal with things just as a powerhouse. And

784
00:40:56,960 --> 00:40:58,760
every woman is in love with him no matter what,

785
00:40:58,960 --> 00:41:00,599
and all the rest of this. And so you get

786
00:41:00,679 --> 00:41:03,199
this guy who that kind of throws back to what

787
00:41:03,239 --> 00:41:04,960
we were talking about before. This is a guy who

788
00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:08,639
anywhere he went, other guys would be like, holy shit,

789
00:41:08,719 --> 00:41:13,840
this guy is a badass, and not necessarily what an

790
00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:17,440
upstandingly moral young gentleman, you know what I mean. It's

791
00:41:17,519 --> 00:41:21,559
that he's just a bastard, you know what I mean,

792
00:41:21,599 --> 00:41:23,639
And he's capable of doing everything. And that's sort of

793
00:41:24,159 --> 00:41:28,760
there isn't you know? That's every Howard character essentially. Solomon

794
00:41:28,800 --> 00:41:30,760
Kan's a little different, but most of them are just Conan.

795
00:41:31,239 --> 00:41:34,639
And whether it's Conan in the Wild West or Conan

796
00:41:34,760 --> 00:41:37,920
fighting with swords in Spain or Arabia or whatever, it's

797
00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:39,239
all the same story. You know.

798
00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:46,599
Speaker 3: Yeah, When I think that perhaps the perfect like trope, right,

799
00:41:46,679 --> 00:41:49,920
the scene you've seen a thousand times to explain this, right,

800
00:41:50,719 --> 00:41:53,079
is the you know, the the climactic, you know, after

801
00:41:53,159 --> 00:41:55,599
the big fight with the villain where you know that

802
00:41:55,719 --> 00:41:58,440
they've got him and the villain's like kill me, and

803
00:41:58,519 --> 00:42:00,960
he's like, no, because if I kill you, I'll be

804
00:42:01,199 --> 00:42:03,400
just as bad as you. And it's ridiculous. You know,

805
00:42:03,480 --> 00:42:06,480
it's almost like a parody at this point. But you

806
00:42:06,639 --> 00:42:10,280
go back, I mean even to even to you know,

807
00:42:10,360 --> 00:42:13,039
Lord of the Rings, which has a different it's a

808
00:42:13,119 --> 00:42:17,199
different morality than you know, the Coonhan. The idea is

809
00:42:17,239 --> 00:42:19,639
that no evil is to be vanquished. Right, you smash

810
00:42:19,719 --> 00:42:25,039
it and you know that idea is relative to current culture,

811
00:42:25,199 --> 00:42:28,559
very subversive and one of my favorite podcasts. One of

812
00:42:28,599 --> 00:42:31,519
the few shows I actually listen to every episode is

813
00:42:32,159 --> 00:42:37,000
Chad and Kevin's Warhammer Show, which is only technically about Warhammer, right.

814
00:42:37,159 --> 00:42:40,960
Speaker 2: It's it's just all about Warhammer and that's all it's about.

815
00:42:43,119 --> 00:42:46,039
Speaker 3: But sidebar issue. I keep plugging it on my show.

816
00:42:46,880 --> 00:42:51,400
Subscribe to it for the titles alone. The titles are hilarious.

817
00:42:51,800 --> 00:42:54,519
Speaker 2: You know, like I don't and and this is not

818
00:42:54,719 --> 00:42:57,039
me copping out of being a nerd or something like

819
00:42:57,159 --> 00:42:59,119
Frank Frizette is one of the reasons I ever even

820
00:42:59,199 --> 00:43:01,920
lifted away, so Conan, I love Tolkien all that stuff,

821
00:43:01,960 --> 00:43:04,800
but I don't know much about Warhammer, and most of

822
00:43:04,880 --> 00:43:07,960
what I know about Warhammer I've learned through late night

823
00:43:08,039 --> 00:43:12,039
drinking beer with those guys, and I do find it fascinating.

824
00:43:12,320 --> 00:43:15,920
It's crazy the sort of one eighty that it's done

825
00:43:15,960 --> 00:43:17,519
in all the rest. But even as a guy who

826
00:43:17,599 --> 00:43:20,960
didn't know anything about Warhammer, I was listening to the

827
00:43:21,039 --> 00:43:23,039
first show that those guys are doing, and I was like,

828
00:43:24,119 --> 00:43:26,760
this is something special here, because those guys are both

829
00:43:26,800 --> 00:43:31,679
so ridiculous together and also Kevin is such a like,

830
00:43:32,400 --> 00:43:34,840
you know, he's like a political commentary guy, and Chad

831
00:43:34,960 --> 00:43:37,000
is just always like nope, it's fake and gay, like,

832
00:43:37,079 --> 00:43:40,159
you know whatever. This is just two of those guys

833
00:43:40,199 --> 00:43:43,840
on a show, and Chad runs the Twitter account, which

834
00:43:43,920 --> 00:43:47,800
is also hilarious. But yeah, they're doing a really good

835
00:43:47,880 --> 00:43:51,280
job there. I found it highly entertaining. But yeah, one

836
00:43:51,280 --> 00:43:53,880
of the things you were saying about the hero thing,

837
00:43:53,960 --> 00:43:56,880
we're just talking about the other day because one of

838
00:43:56,960 --> 00:44:00,159
my little boy's favorite movies is Fire and Ice. That

839
00:44:00,239 --> 00:44:02,519
a you know, bochy sort of barbarian thing, and in

840
00:44:02,559 --> 00:44:05,119
the very end of that, you go, God, how many

841
00:44:05,199 --> 00:44:07,840
cultures were felled by this. You know, they've been fighting

842
00:44:07,880 --> 00:44:10,559
these guys all movie who are literally called the sub humans.

843
00:44:10,599 --> 00:44:13,480
They're these cave men, neanderthal guys. And at the very

844
00:44:13,599 --> 00:44:16,519
end of the movie, the like blonde haired protagonist, there's

845
00:44:16,599 --> 00:44:18,760
like one of these guys left, and you know, the

846
00:44:18,840 --> 00:44:21,920
big you know, buxo chick that he's with or whatever goes, No,

847
00:44:23,440 --> 00:44:25,840
you can't do that. That's over now, and it's a

848
00:44:25,920 --> 00:44:28,440
new way of life, don't you understand. And he's like,

849
00:44:28,840 --> 00:44:32,480
better listen to the you know, better listen to this

850
00:44:32,639 --> 00:44:35,000
chick and get in the long house or whatever. And

851
00:44:35,599 --> 00:44:37,320
every time I watch it with my kid, I'm like, God,

852
00:44:37,400 --> 00:44:38,960
is there a way to just edit the last like

853
00:44:39,079 --> 00:44:42,920
ten minutes of this movie completely out? Yeah?

854
00:44:42,960 --> 00:44:45,480
Speaker 3: Well, I think that that's sort of one of the

855
00:44:46,360 --> 00:44:49,719
one of the interesting things about that kind of like

856
00:44:50,800 --> 00:44:53,360
cultural left wing view is they have kind of a

857
00:44:53,519 --> 00:44:58,880
dual place for the villain. It's like not entirely consistent.

858
00:44:58,920 --> 00:45:01,239
And I realize, look, just because it doesn't line up

859
00:45:01,280 --> 00:45:03,840
perfectly on a graph doesn't mean that it isn't effective.

860
00:45:04,519 --> 00:45:07,599
But on one hand, people like you and I are

861
00:45:07,719 --> 00:45:11,400
abject to evil, right, we're irredeemable, we need to be

862
00:45:11,480 --> 00:45:16,400
stomped out. But also like the big bad the villain, well,

863
00:45:17,199 --> 00:45:20,480
really there's no reason he isn't just evil, right, There's

864
00:45:20,519 --> 00:45:22,679
no such thing as pure evil. It's a lot of

865
00:45:22,719 --> 00:45:25,719
times motivated by some kind of weird like psycho sexual

866
00:45:26,280 --> 00:45:30,320
you know, whether explicitly or implicitly, which you know, we

867
00:45:30,440 --> 00:45:33,159
can maybe do some noticing there. But like, I think

868
00:45:33,199 --> 00:45:37,199
that that's interesting where on one level it is extremely

869
00:45:37,360 --> 00:45:39,559
black and white. On one level, it is there are

870
00:45:39,639 --> 00:45:43,039
good people and bad people, but oftentimes in their media

871
00:45:43,079 --> 00:45:45,239
they at least have this kind of fig leaf of

872
00:45:46,360 --> 00:45:49,360
you know, no one's ever truly bad, it's just misunderstanding.

873
00:45:49,840 --> 00:45:51,880
Like again, not to go back to this, but just

874
00:45:51,920 --> 00:45:56,840
as a relevant example, you've seen this very much in Warhammer, right,

875
00:45:56,880 --> 00:46:00,599
which is the most ludicrously black and white setting possible. Right,

876
00:46:00,719 --> 00:46:03,199
it is hell is real, and you know, demons will

877
00:46:03,199 --> 00:46:06,000
pop out if you do anything bad, and basically like

878
00:46:06,599 --> 00:46:06,800
you know.

879
00:46:07,039 --> 00:46:08,599
Speaker 2: And here's why that's talk you to death.

880
00:46:09,119 --> 00:46:12,079
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, exactly, But you can see them sort of

881
00:46:12,239 --> 00:46:16,480
desperately trying to contort that into this kind of moral

882
00:46:17,000 --> 00:46:20,559
and when we talk about moral relativism, I'm not talking about.

883
00:46:21,039 --> 00:46:22,559
Speaker 2: On the way to community college.

884
00:46:22,840 --> 00:46:27,360
Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, yeah, So I'm curious, right, like, what do

885
00:46:27,480 --> 00:46:28,840
you make of that, because we spend a lot of

886
00:46:28,880 --> 00:46:33,360
time talking about the hero. But I think another thing

887
00:46:33,400 --> 00:46:34,960
that I noticed in a lot of kind of pop

888
00:46:35,039 --> 00:46:39,199
culture is an inability to make like true villains anymore.

889
00:46:39,800 --> 00:46:42,480
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, and I think that's part and parcel with

890
00:46:42,599 --> 00:46:46,159
this sort of form and void thing that is hand

891
00:46:46,199 --> 00:46:48,639
in hand with all left wing philosophy is that they

892
00:46:48,679 --> 00:46:52,519
don't like definites. You know, you even see it in

893
00:46:53,159 --> 00:46:57,159
fucking Star Wars. Only assist deals in absolutes. And you're like, right,

894
00:46:57,760 --> 00:47:00,239
because nothing could just be good or bad. We're words

895
00:47:00,239 --> 00:47:03,880
don't just mean things, okay, Countries don't just have borders

896
00:47:03,920 --> 00:47:07,960
on them all right. Everything is permeable, amorphous, and in

897
00:47:08,079 --> 00:47:11,840
a state of transition. Everything is a spectrum, right, And

898
00:47:12,199 --> 00:47:17,039
that idea is so critical, I think, especially to modern

899
00:47:17,119 --> 00:47:21,440
leftist thought, that they can't make any statement. There's no

900
00:47:21,639 --> 00:47:23,840
statement that they make that can't hold it sort of

901
00:47:23,960 --> 00:47:28,280
inversion within itself. And although that's sort of a powerful

902
00:47:28,360 --> 00:47:31,239
ability to be able to do, because you're constantly playing

903
00:47:31,400 --> 00:47:37,440
a shell game, you know what I mean, it's it's

904
00:47:37,519 --> 00:47:42,719
the inability to stand on any point without saying, well,

905
00:47:43,639 --> 00:47:46,719
you know, and again you go back to this idea

906
00:47:46,800 --> 00:47:51,760
of directness or indirectness, and that you know, if I

907
00:47:51,880 --> 00:47:55,480
may indulge my own personal interest for a moment, that

908
00:47:56,199 --> 00:47:57,840
not like we've been doing it all all show. But

909
00:47:58,599 --> 00:48:02,719
there's this thing in Smith where they talk about two

910
00:48:02,800 --> 00:48:06,519
different types of magical expression in the more sort of

911
00:48:06,639 --> 00:48:10,639
fantastical mythology stories, and one is called galder, which is

912
00:48:10,679 --> 00:48:15,079
the idea of singing or chanting runes and creating some

913
00:48:15,360 --> 00:48:18,199
kind of change or affecting the world in a direct way.

914
00:48:19,280 --> 00:48:21,760
It's it's it's cut into things, usually with a knife,

915
00:48:21,880 --> 00:48:25,239
or it's spoken. It's all very direct. And the other type,

916
00:48:25,280 --> 00:48:28,679
this is considered masculine. And the other type is called saithe,

917
00:48:28,800 --> 00:48:32,719
which is like more womanly, and it's it's maybe involved

918
00:48:32,760 --> 00:48:35,480
sitting out or singing or these other things that then

919
00:48:35,599 --> 00:48:39,079
affect things in a in a roundabout kind of fashion,

920
00:48:39,280 --> 00:48:42,079
or might involve shape shifting or something like that, right

921
00:48:42,400 --> 00:48:44,760
sort of chicanery or trickery or whatever. And this is

922
00:48:44,800 --> 00:48:48,400
seen as womanly in a way where a guy would

923
00:48:48,400 --> 00:48:50,039
say it's womanly, And what they mean is that it's

924
00:48:50,079 --> 00:48:53,440
indirect it's cowardly and it's passive aggressive, And so all

925
00:48:53,480 --> 00:48:56,960
the way back from the mythology, this, this old mythology

926
00:48:57,119 --> 00:49:00,199
of our people, you have this idea that to be

927
00:49:00,440 --> 00:49:03,440
direct and to say this is who I am, this

928
00:49:03,599 --> 00:49:07,320
is what I stand for. Here I am is correct

929
00:49:07,360 --> 00:49:10,039
and is masculine. And to do anything else and to

930
00:49:10,119 --> 00:49:15,320
do anything indirectly or to constantly be shifting around is effeminate,

931
00:49:15,559 --> 00:49:20,800
or it's unmanly, it's cowardly. And I think that these

932
00:49:20,840 --> 00:49:24,760
two philosophies sort of stand at opposite ends of the ballpark,

933
00:49:24,880 --> 00:49:28,280
where you have this idea that you and I can

934
00:49:28,360 --> 00:49:31,239
look at something and say, give him the boot. You

935
00:49:31,320 --> 00:49:33,559
know what I mean, this guy interfered with children or something.

936
00:49:33,599 --> 00:49:36,119
Just give him the boot, stop him. Nothing else that

937
00:49:36,199 --> 00:49:39,960
he's done with his life changes this. And this is evil,

938
00:49:40,000 --> 00:49:42,280
and evil has to be confronted and it must be crushed.

939
00:49:43,760 --> 00:49:46,840
And I think on this other side, it's, well, can

940
00:49:46,920 --> 00:49:50,360
we truly trust that? Or well maybe this happened, or

941
00:49:50,480 --> 00:49:53,519
maybe this is an orientation, or maybe we'll just keep

942
00:49:53,599 --> 00:49:56,840
moving these goalposts. And so I think really that when

943
00:49:56,880 --> 00:49:58,800
it comes down to it, right wing and left wing,

944
00:49:58,840 --> 00:50:02,159
whether we're even talking about literature or not comes down

945
00:50:02,239 --> 00:50:04,880
to these ideas of do you understand things to be

946
00:50:05,400 --> 00:50:08,519
good and evil? Not that everything is black and white,

947
00:50:09,000 --> 00:50:11,320
but that there are definitive things to stand for and

948
00:50:11,400 --> 00:50:14,519
things to stand against, and that if this person is

949
00:50:14,599 --> 00:50:17,280
a bad guy or whatever it is, you can just

950
00:50:17,360 --> 00:50:20,440
say he gets wrecked, you know what I mean? And

951
00:50:20,920 --> 00:50:24,199
personally you can live your life any way you want to.

952
00:50:25,079 --> 00:50:27,519
But I think at the end of it, it's best

953
00:50:27,599 --> 00:50:29,519
to have lived in a direct fashion and said, I

954
00:50:29,599 --> 00:50:31,719
made a decision. I went with the decision. I believed

955
00:50:31,719 --> 00:50:33,960
in myself, and I trusted the choices that I made.

956
00:50:34,360 --> 00:50:37,519
Then to say, well, nothing was certain, ever, I don't

957
00:50:37,599 --> 00:50:39,880
know well.

958
00:50:40,039 --> 00:50:43,320
Speaker 3: And you even see that in the etymology of the

959
00:50:44,239 --> 00:50:47,719
the word sinister, right, the idea from Latin, of course,

960
00:50:47,920 --> 00:50:52,079
of you know left handed? Why is being left handed sinister? Well,

961
00:50:52,760 --> 00:50:55,599
you can shake someone's hand and then shank them with

962
00:50:55,679 --> 00:50:58,320
your good arm. Right, it's the idea of that kind

963
00:50:58,320 --> 00:51:01,800
of pretense that you know, that double dealing. And it

964
00:51:01,920 --> 00:51:05,760
goes back to what we were saying earlier about the

965
00:51:05,880 --> 00:51:08,440
kind of I guess we could say like potemic left

966
00:51:08,480 --> 00:51:11,960
and right version of conflict, where you know when these

967
00:51:12,039 --> 00:51:15,559
worms are going after you or going after me, Like

968
00:51:15,840 --> 00:51:18,440
how often they show up at your front doorstep? Right,

969
00:51:18,679 --> 00:51:20,360
you know, say what you will about the IRA, but

970
00:51:21,159 --> 00:51:23,480
you know a car bomb is at least definite. No,

971
00:51:23,599 --> 00:51:27,559
it's never that, right. It is the roundabout. It's the

972
00:51:27,719 --> 00:51:31,280
I'm going to tell people what you've said, or I'm

973
00:51:31,360 --> 00:51:33,800
going to talk to your not even talk, send an

974
00:51:33,840 --> 00:51:36,599
email to your boss from a fake email address. Right.

975
00:51:37,079 --> 00:51:41,519
It is this sort of indirect way to I mean

976
00:51:42,360 --> 00:51:46,960
like economically or socially assassinate someone instead of like, let's

977
00:51:47,000 --> 00:51:49,599
have it out right if you're wrong, you were wrong.

978
00:51:50,039 --> 00:51:52,159
Speaker 2: Well you brought up the IRA. I'm sure you're probably

979
00:51:52,239 --> 00:51:55,880
familiar with the movie Michael Collins, but there's a great

980
00:51:55,920 --> 00:51:58,199
part in Michael Collins with Liam Neeson where they're sitting

981
00:51:58,239 --> 00:52:00,880
there and he's dictating the letter, you know, to everyone

982
00:52:00,920 --> 00:52:03,880
who works for the Crown, you know, the Feds, And

983
00:52:03,960 --> 00:52:06,320
he dictates the letter and it's in very clear English

984
00:52:06,360 --> 00:52:08,519
and he says, you know, send it to everybody. And

985
00:52:08,719 --> 00:52:10,480
the guy says, well, you know what this means, right,

986
00:52:10,519 --> 00:52:12,360
And he says what and he goes, we've actually got

987
00:52:12,440 --> 00:52:15,480
to start killing him, you know if they don't agree,

988
00:52:15,920 --> 00:52:18,679
and he they you know, they send it. And I

989
00:52:18,760 --> 00:52:20,960
always thought that was a great scene, not because I'm

990
00:52:21,000 --> 00:52:25,880
pro Ira, but because it's a great example of the

991
00:52:26,079 --> 00:52:31,400
idea that sending messages is not activism or it's not action,

992
00:52:31,760 --> 00:52:34,960
it's it's talking, and that at a certain point that

993
00:52:35,199 --> 00:52:37,519
talk has to have something behind it, otherwise people are

994
00:52:37,559 --> 00:52:39,800
going to learn that it's just talk. And like we

995
00:52:39,920 --> 00:52:43,079
talked about earlier, it's it's very easy to send messages

996
00:52:43,119 --> 00:52:45,039
to people from a thousand miles away. But what you're

997
00:52:45,039 --> 00:52:48,599
starting to see that's been quite interesting is you're starting

998
00:52:48,679 --> 00:52:51,599
to see this happen the other way around. And I

999
00:52:51,719 --> 00:52:56,800
remember this was years ago, but one of my favorite bands,

1000
00:52:57,079 --> 00:52:59,360
band called Destroyer six sixty six, was on tour in

1001
00:52:59,400 --> 00:53:00,960
the United States for the first time in a long

1002
00:53:01,039 --> 00:53:03,840
time with another band who I enjoyed a lot called Wattain,

1003
00:53:04,400 --> 00:53:08,000
and Destroyer was very politically unpopular at the time because

1004
00:53:08,039 --> 00:53:09,639
of some of the stuff that they would say, some

1005
00:53:09,719 --> 00:53:11,840
of the tattoos that the guy's got and everything like that,

1006
00:53:13,000 --> 00:53:17,719
and so a really popular leftist heavy metal site started saying, Hey,

1007
00:53:17,760 --> 00:53:20,599
here's all these shows on the tour, it's time for

1008
00:53:20,719 --> 00:53:24,119
direct action. And so the band said, they talked to

1009
00:53:24,199 --> 00:53:26,760
some of their fans, and those fans gave them these people,

1010
00:53:26,880 --> 00:53:30,000
these journalists, real names and home addresses, and he posted

1011
00:53:30,039 --> 00:53:31,920
it on the Facebook and he said, let's see whose

1012
00:53:32,000 --> 00:53:35,440
fans are crazier. Now, you probably might go to jail

1013
00:53:35,519 --> 00:53:38,639
for something like that. I don't know, but the article

1014
00:53:38,760 --> 00:53:42,000
was retracted. The people absolutely panicked and pissed down their

1015
00:53:42,039 --> 00:53:44,679
leg just as a simple turn about as fair play

1016
00:53:44,760 --> 00:53:47,960
type situation. And so what happens when these people get

1017
00:53:48,039 --> 00:53:50,320
their shit put out in public and they get docked

1018
00:53:50,800 --> 00:53:54,639
is they very very very quickly panic and shell up.

1019
00:53:55,199 --> 00:53:57,159
And like you said, I think that's because they know

1020
00:53:57,360 --> 00:53:59,719
that there's a lot of folks on this side of

1021
00:53:59,800 --> 00:54:03,039
things who might say, well, I'm not like you. I'm

1022
00:54:03,039 --> 00:54:06,159
going to directly solve this situation. And you, personally, this

1023
00:54:06,360 --> 00:54:10,360
journalist or that journalist have been responsible for a great

1024
00:54:10,480 --> 00:54:12,440
number of negative things that have happened to me in

1025
00:54:12,519 --> 00:54:15,079
my life. There's a few that I could name right here.

1026
00:54:15,239 --> 00:54:17,000
They know who they are, and I'm sure they'll watch

1027
00:54:17,079 --> 00:54:19,920
this because they watch everything that I do. But that

1028
00:54:20,559 --> 00:54:22,719
they've caused me a lot of negative shit, and I'm

1029
00:54:22,719 --> 00:54:26,400
sure that will overjoy them to hear. But it doesn't matter,

1030
00:54:26,480 --> 00:54:29,320
because I'll always be fine. I'll continue to thrive. And

1031
00:54:29,400 --> 00:54:33,360
the fact is that they're literally attempting to starve you,

1032
00:54:33,639 --> 00:54:35,760
which means they're trying to starve your family, which means

1033
00:54:35,760 --> 00:54:38,440
they're trying to kill your kids. And that's actually what

1034
00:54:38,559 --> 00:54:40,440
it is at the end of the day. And every

1035
00:54:40,559 --> 00:54:42,960
single one of them who's done that, they know what

1036
00:54:43,000 --> 00:54:44,920
will happen to them if I'm ever given the chance

1037
00:54:44,960 --> 00:54:48,159
to see them in person, They'll have a heart attack

1038
00:54:48,199 --> 00:54:50,599
before I could probably get anywhere near them, you know

1039
00:54:50,639 --> 00:54:52,440
what I mean. But that's what it comes down to,

1040
00:54:52,639 --> 00:54:54,880
is that we're people of action. And what they like

1041
00:54:54,960 --> 00:54:56,360
to do is they like to write, and they like

1042
00:54:56,440 --> 00:54:58,440
to talk, and they like to report and then say, oh, well,

1043
00:54:58,519 --> 00:55:01,320
I'm just I'm just hoarding on this as I cost

1044
00:55:01,360 --> 00:55:02,920
you your job and all the rest of this kind

1045
00:55:02,920 --> 00:55:05,400
of shit. But they might find out someday it costs

1046
00:55:05,440 --> 00:55:06,000
them everything.

1047
00:55:07,440 --> 00:55:11,480
Speaker 3: Well, you see this in Machiavelli, right, the Foxes and Lions.

1048
00:55:11,599 --> 00:55:14,800
His two types of leaders. And you know, much like

1049
00:55:14,920 --> 00:55:17,440
the the masculine, the feminine, the yin and the yang,

1050
00:55:18,039 --> 00:55:21,760
there are excesses in both directions, and a healthy society

1051
00:55:21,880 --> 00:55:25,840
needs both, right, you cannot have a society of men,

1052
00:55:26,239 --> 00:55:28,760
very clearly, you cannot have a society of women, although

1053
00:55:28,800 --> 00:55:31,639
we have certainly made an attempt of it. But he

1054
00:55:31,840 --> 00:55:34,960
describes the foxes and lions, right. Obviously, the lion is

1055
00:55:35,000 --> 00:55:38,239
the man of action. He cites you know, Charlemagne not

1056
00:55:38,320 --> 00:55:39,639
to bring up a sensitive subject.

1057
00:55:39,880 --> 00:55:42,119
Speaker 2: You know, is the kind of archetype I got it.

1058
00:55:42,360 --> 00:55:46,000
Speaker 3: But you know, the kind of guy who basically says, well,

1059
00:55:46,079 --> 00:55:49,079
I'm in charge and if you don't agree, I've got swords.

1060
00:55:49,280 --> 00:55:49,400
Speaker 2: You know.

1061
00:55:49,440 --> 00:55:51,000
Speaker 3: It is the kind of archetype of that you see

1062
00:55:51,039 --> 00:55:55,440
that throughout history. Whereas you know, the fox is you know,

1063
00:55:55,519 --> 00:55:58,199
the manager, the guy who you know has a cunning

1064
00:55:58,280 --> 00:56:02,239
plan for everything. And of course you know these tend

1065
00:56:02,320 --> 00:56:04,400
to move in kind of a sin way, right first,

1066
00:56:04,639 --> 00:56:09,280
you know, one moves to excess declines. But I think

1067
00:56:09,360 --> 00:56:13,719
that we are in an era of foxes, right there

1068
00:56:13,800 --> 00:56:16,800
are no lions to be found. And one of the

1069
00:56:16,840 --> 00:56:19,880
great things about that kind of like decisive, you know,

1070
00:56:19,960 --> 00:56:23,440
man of action is the you know, the sort of

1071
00:56:23,480 --> 00:56:26,960
parable of the Gordian knot right, this intractable problem that

1072
00:56:27,039 --> 00:56:30,280
exists for hundreds of years. The wisest man you know

1073
00:56:30,320 --> 00:56:34,320
across the world can't solve it until Alexander walks up

1074
00:56:34,360 --> 00:56:37,400
with a sword and cuts it in half, right fulfilling

1075
00:56:37,440 --> 00:56:39,679
the prophecy and becoming the man who ruled the world.

1076
00:56:40,480 --> 00:56:43,639
And to be honest, to go back to you know,

1077
00:56:43,760 --> 00:56:46,119
to go back to Conan, to go back to you know,

1078
00:56:46,199 --> 00:56:47,960
these sort of pulp figures, or even the kind of

1079
00:56:48,679 --> 00:56:53,480
heroes of antiquity. There's something incredibly refreshing about Oh, you

1080
00:56:53,559 --> 00:56:56,280
know Grendel has kicked down the door. Well, I'm going

1081
00:56:56,360 --> 00:56:59,480
to rip his arm off. That solved the problem, you know,

1082
00:56:59,559 --> 00:57:03,840
instead of this like, you know, kind of indirect you know,

1083
00:57:04,519 --> 00:57:08,840
sort of gun shy, non confrontational version where everything is

1084
00:57:08,920 --> 00:57:11,719
done in a roundabout way, everything is managed, nothing is

1085
00:57:11,800 --> 00:57:16,360
actually solved. More Goth, who's you know a thinker that

1086
00:57:16,440 --> 00:57:19,239
I have you know, taken a lot from Uh he

1087
00:57:19,400 --> 00:57:23,039
compared that to a to a lesbian relationship j R.

1088
00:57:23,199 --> 00:57:26,960
Tolkien No Morgoth's review. He's an English blogger. Yeah, yeah,

1089
00:57:27,280 --> 00:57:28,239
I heard him.

1090
00:57:28,320 --> 00:57:29,679
Speaker 2: I was like, you were like, I've taken a lot

1091
00:57:29,719 --> 00:57:31,679
from him. I'm like, my brother, You'll be.

1092
00:57:34,199 --> 00:57:37,079
Speaker 3: The funny story about that he's told it a billion times,

1093
00:57:37,719 --> 00:57:40,639
is that, uh he got his start back when you know,

1094
00:57:40,719 --> 00:57:44,119
the newspaper online still had comment sections, so he'd be

1095
00:57:44,159 --> 00:57:45,760
saying the sort of things you and I would say

1096
00:57:46,079 --> 00:57:48,719
immediately get banned. And so the way that he kept

1097
00:57:48,760 --> 00:57:50,559
doing it was he just went to a list of

1098
00:57:50,599 --> 00:57:53,760
Lord of the Rings characters and went down in alphabetical order,

1099
00:57:54,360 --> 00:57:57,480
and more goth was kicked off. He's like, yeah, I

1100
00:57:57,519 --> 00:57:59,280
feel a little bad, you know, putting on the kind

1101
00:57:59,320 --> 00:58:01,760
of visage of folk and Satan, but it's the name

1102
00:58:01,800 --> 00:58:02,440
you get stuck with.

1103
00:58:05,079 --> 00:58:05,440
Speaker 2: Anyway.

1104
00:58:05,480 --> 00:58:09,280
Speaker 3: Sorry that was an off topic, but good Paul, dude,

1105
00:58:09,320 --> 00:58:11,079
this has been a ton of fun. I can't believe

1106
00:58:11,079 --> 00:58:13,559
it took me this long to have you on. Where

1107
00:58:13,599 --> 00:58:15,239
can people find you? Where can they find your work?

1108
00:58:16,079 --> 00:58:18,519
Speaker 2: You can go to Operation Werewolf dot com. Don't share

1109
00:58:18,559 --> 00:58:21,400
that link on Instagram, it will get you banned, but

1110
00:58:21,480 --> 00:58:23,199
you can find me there and it has links to

1111
00:58:23,519 --> 00:58:27,280
my telegram. You can find tons of articles and stuff

1112
00:58:27,320 --> 00:58:29,920
on there, and also the podcast. My podcast is called

1113
00:58:30,000 --> 00:58:32,679
Call Signed Werewolf, which you can also find by googling.

1114
00:58:33,239 --> 00:58:36,679
It's a free subscription and you can check it out

1115
00:58:36,679 --> 00:58:39,039
anytime you want. I have to use gum road. It's

1116
00:58:39,079 --> 00:58:40,679
what's left to me. I know, it's not the best

1117
00:58:40,719 --> 00:58:43,400
platform out there. But I did want to say one

1118
00:58:43,800 --> 00:58:46,559
last thing real quick, which is on the idea of

1119
00:58:46,559 --> 00:58:49,280
what you were talking about with this Foxes and Lions,

1120
00:58:50,320 --> 00:58:53,639
and as a big Evolva fan, there's a great quote

1121
00:58:53,679 --> 00:58:55,800
where he's talking about what's needed for the age that

1122
00:58:55,880 --> 00:58:59,280
we're in, and he calls it a kind of barbarism,

1123
00:58:59,440 --> 00:59:02,559
like a type of brutal chivalry, for a new dark age.

1124
00:59:02,880 --> 00:59:05,159
And it's something that I've used a lot in a

1125
00:59:05,199 --> 00:59:07,239
lot of my imagery with Right Action and some of

1126
00:59:07,280 --> 00:59:10,039
the other projects that I've done. But I do think

1127
00:59:10,159 --> 00:59:14,239
that what we need now is I'm not saying it's

1128
00:59:14,280 --> 00:59:16,960
a bad thing to read. I'm a reader myself. I'm

1129
00:59:17,000 --> 00:59:18,960
not saying it's a bad thing to be an intellectual.

1130
00:59:19,280 --> 00:59:21,159
It's always going to be good to have those guys.

1131
00:59:21,280 --> 00:59:23,840
But I think that the intellectuals have to become men

1132
00:59:23,920 --> 00:59:25,960
of action too, And I think the men of action

1133
00:59:26,159 --> 00:59:29,800
have to educate themselves because we we require four square

1134
00:59:29,920 --> 00:59:33,480
guys in this in this ongoing sort of culture war

1135
00:59:33,599 --> 00:59:36,159
that we're engaged in, and we can't any of us

1136
00:59:36,280 --> 00:59:40,320
really afford to just be hyper hyper hyper focused on

1137
00:59:40,440 --> 00:59:43,920
the one thing. So you know, I would exhort everybody.

1138
00:59:44,679 --> 00:59:47,320
If you're if you're really smart but you're out of shape,

1139
00:59:47,639 --> 00:59:50,639
or let's be honest, if you if you're a fat ass, man,

1140
00:59:50,679 --> 00:59:53,079
there's so many people who will help you out and

1141
00:59:53,239 --> 00:59:55,599
who will encourage you and everything like that on our

1142
00:59:55,719 --> 00:59:58,079
side of things to train with them or give you

1143
00:59:58,280 --> 01:00:00,960
free programs or plans or whatever, just to get you

1144
01:00:01,079 --> 01:00:04,239
pointed in the right direction. If you're if you're strawny

1145
01:00:04,360 --> 01:00:06,679
or whatever. Man, all you got to do is just

1146
01:00:06,800 --> 01:00:09,480
eat some more. And we've got to be helping each

1147
01:00:09,519 --> 01:00:12,239
other out, helping each other make more money, helping each

1148
01:00:12,280 --> 01:00:14,679
other make the right choices, helping each other make these

1149
01:00:14,719 --> 01:00:17,840
communities come together, and helping challenge each other to make

1150
01:00:17,880 --> 01:00:20,000
sure that we can all rise to the occasion and

1151
01:00:20,119 --> 01:00:22,000
make sure that we win this thing once and for all.

1152
01:00:23,440 --> 01:00:27,079
Speaker 3: Well, dude, I mean honestly, man, Like, that's the sort

1153
01:00:27,119 --> 01:00:30,960
of coolest thing I've seen in training is watching that

1154
01:00:31,159 --> 01:00:34,440
kind of one year two year transformation right where you

1155
01:00:34,519 --> 01:00:37,519
see this like you see like a Ned Flanders looking guy.

1156
01:00:38,199 --> 01:00:39,639
You know, you meet him, like he's a nice guy,

1157
01:00:40,400 --> 01:00:42,480
and then you know, a year, a year and a

1158
01:00:42,480 --> 01:00:47,440
half later, right, he's knocking down a should I say

1159
01:00:47,559 --> 01:00:50,400
a prominent right wing influencer three times at a kickboxing fight,

1160
01:00:50,480 --> 01:00:51,360
You're like, that's awesome.

1161
01:00:52,800 --> 01:00:54,800
Speaker 2: That was a really good one. And and and shout

1162
01:00:54,800 --> 01:00:57,159
out to all those guys who went down there to that.

1163
01:00:58,480 --> 01:01:01,840
You know, my my bro, mar my bro Haram, my

1164
01:01:01,960 --> 01:01:04,679
bro Skinny, all these guys who are right now doing this,

1165
01:01:05,320 --> 01:01:08,079
and they're working with these guys not just training, but

1166
01:01:08,159 --> 01:01:13,320
they're doing these you know, hooligan style like seven on

1167
01:01:13,480 --> 01:01:15,519
seven matches and shit out in the woods and stuff.

1168
01:01:15,519 --> 01:01:18,199
And after every single one of them, what you see

1169
01:01:18,320 --> 01:01:20,960
is everybody lines up, they come through, they shake hands,

1170
01:01:21,000 --> 01:01:22,679
they give each other hugs and everything like that. And

1171
01:01:24,119 --> 01:01:26,039
I watch a bunch of the comments on their stuff

1172
01:01:26,079 --> 01:01:28,000
when they post it, and you know, it's a lot

1173
01:01:28,039 --> 01:01:30,360
of people saying, are these guys Nazis whatever? This or that.

1174
01:01:30,960 --> 01:01:32,800
But the other one that you'll see, there's a lot

1175
01:01:32,840 --> 01:01:34,800
of positive comments too. But one of the other negative

1176
01:01:34,800 --> 01:01:36,760
ones you see is, you know, a bunch of morons

1177
01:01:36,800 --> 01:01:38,360
like knocking the shit out of each other in the woods.

1178
01:01:38,400 --> 01:01:40,719
And you go, well, this is the closest thing that

1179
01:01:40,800 --> 01:01:45,679
you can come to experiencing like a real brawl without

1180
01:01:45,719 --> 01:01:47,639
being in a real brawl. Now, of course, nobody's trying

1181
01:01:47,639 --> 01:01:49,840
to kill you or whatever. There's definitely a difference, but

1182
01:01:50,440 --> 01:01:53,159
it's the closest you can get to that without getting

1183
01:01:53,199 --> 01:01:56,320
in trouble or risking you know, life and limb. And

1184
01:01:56,559 --> 01:01:59,480
yet all these guys still on the right are still saying, oh,

1185
01:01:59,679 --> 01:02:01,719
don't you think you should be doing something a little

1186
01:02:01,760 --> 01:02:04,320
more important for whatever? And you go, no, no, no,

1187
01:02:04,480 --> 01:02:08,000
this is important. These guys are young, they're chasing glory,

1188
01:02:08,039 --> 01:02:10,960
they're chasing personal distinguishment in combat and all the rest.

1189
01:02:11,000 --> 01:02:14,039
They're doing the right stuff. And if you're interested in that,

1190
01:02:14,119 --> 01:02:16,679
if you're a younger guy or whatever, if you're a

1191
01:02:16,760 --> 01:02:18,239
tough guy and you want to get involved with that,

1192
01:02:18,480 --> 01:02:21,559
just look up Forest Fights Forest Fights USA, I think

1193
01:02:21,599 --> 01:02:24,039
it is on Instagram, and reach out to those guys

1194
01:02:24,280 --> 01:02:25,840
and get up with them, because they're doing a ton

1195
01:02:25,920 --> 01:02:28,639
of positive stuff for the young guys right now. All

1196
01:02:28,719 --> 01:02:30,800
the active clubs that are out there are doing positive

1197
01:02:30,840 --> 01:02:33,199
stuff for the young guys, and they have been for

1198
01:02:33,280 --> 01:02:36,239
a long time now. So if you're not locally involved

1199
01:02:36,280 --> 01:02:39,039
with something like this, there's really no reason not to be.

1200
01:02:39,239 --> 01:02:43,119
You know, get together, train and experience a little bit

1201
01:02:43,159 --> 01:02:45,719
of shared hardship and adversity. It's very good for you,

1202
01:02:45,960 --> 01:02:47,679
very good for the soul, and it's good for the

1203
01:02:47,760 --> 01:02:48,760
whole thing in general.

1204
01:02:48,880 --> 01:02:53,039
Speaker 3: You know well, and honestly, man like, it's something that

1205
01:02:53,639 --> 01:02:56,000
you know, in a very small version, I've seen my

1206
01:02:56,079 --> 01:02:58,320
own life because like I was, like I was a

1207
01:02:58,360 --> 01:03:01,159
high school fat kid. You know, I was not, and

1208
01:03:01,400 --> 01:03:03,920
still not, if we're being one hundred percent honest, particularly athletic,

1209
01:03:04,079 --> 01:03:08,480
and like I had a really dramatic situation that got

1210
01:03:09,000 --> 01:03:11,079
basically moulded by a pit bull. And I was like,

1211
01:03:11,119 --> 01:03:14,239
oh shoot, I was unprepared for that, Like that came

1212
01:03:14,280 --> 01:03:17,519
out of nowhere. I had nothing, And like, okay, sure,

1213
01:03:17,559 --> 01:03:19,559
that's a dramatic, punctuated event where you're like, all right,

1214
01:03:19,599 --> 01:03:20,159
I don't know if.

1215
01:03:20,079 --> 01:03:22,239
Speaker 2: You're ever prepared to be attacked by a pit bull.

1216
01:03:23,280 --> 01:03:25,440
Speaker 3: Well, fair enough, But when you were in a situation

1217
01:03:25,480 --> 01:03:27,920
where you're like, well I was, I had nothing, Like

1218
01:03:28,039 --> 01:03:29,800
I didn't have, you know, peace on me. I didn't

1219
01:03:29,840 --> 01:03:33,079
have any physical ability And okay, fair enough. I'm not

1220
01:03:33,119 --> 01:03:35,800
going to say I would you know, throw a triangle

1221
01:03:35,880 --> 01:03:37,679
up one getting you know, moulded by a pit bull.

1222
01:03:37,679 --> 01:03:39,039
Speaker 2: It's probably maybe you.

1223
01:03:41,400 --> 01:03:43,840
Speaker 3: I mean, look, I guess the you know, that medical

1224
01:03:43,880 --> 01:03:45,559
procedure runs you a lot more if you do it

1225
01:03:45,599 --> 01:03:47,320
at the hospital, a pit bull, do it for free.

1226
01:03:47,679 --> 01:03:50,239
Speaker 2: But in all seriousness, right time we wrestle, I'll just

1227
01:03:50,360 --> 01:03:53,119
only attack you with my teeth and see what happened?

1228
01:03:53,599 --> 01:03:55,599
Is that? Is that? What operation? Where? Wolf? It's all about?

1229
01:03:55,719 --> 01:03:59,599
Speaker 3: Right, you're just biting people? The point is, right that

1230
01:03:59,840 --> 01:04:03,119
like that realization that like, okay, yeah, fair enough, if

1231
01:04:03,159 --> 01:04:06,559
you are you know, the hypothetical four hundred pound guy,

1232
01:04:07,119 --> 01:04:10,320
you're thirty five, maybe you're not gonna make a run

1233
01:04:10,400 --> 01:04:13,480
for gold at the Olympics. Okay, fair enough. But also

1234
01:04:13,639 --> 01:04:17,079
like you have a a great degree of agency in

1235
01:04:17,159 --> 01:04:21,360
your life and that process in and of itself is

1236
01:04:21,480 --> 01:04:24,199
good for you. It will make you better. And I

1237
01:04:24,239 --> 01:04:25,960
mean going all the way back to the beginning, right

1238
01:04:26,039 --> 01:04:28,519
that that kind of you know, I guess you could

1239
01:04:28,519 --> 01:04:31,079
say like kind of quest for status or respect, Like

1240
01:04:31,920 --> 01:04:34,079
there are way worse ways to do it than that.

1241
01:04:34,639 --> 01:04:36,559
But Paul Man, this was a ton of fun.

1242
01:04:36,519 --> 01:04:38,119
Speaker 2: Dude, I really appreciate it.

1243
01:04:38,800 --> 01:04:41,559
Speaker 3: And yeah, to everyone at home, keep your head up,

1244
01:04:41,679 --> 01:05:07,440
good night, but not butt throu the Bagari Everagari problem.