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Speaker 1: I can't think of a better way to start twenty

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twenty three than by signing up for Richard Grove's Autonomy course.

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He's going into season nine and every season he's adding

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more information in there to help you grow. I've said

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this before. I don't think that I could have gotten

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through twenty twenty and be where I am right now

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if I were not a participant in season one. So

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head on over to freemanbyond Thewall dot Com forward Slash Autonomy.

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I have a couple of links there for you. Check

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it out and get on Richard's level. Thank you. I

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want to welcome everyone back to the Pee Conona Show.

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I am here today with Trey Garrison and a beautiful view.

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Speaker 2: Yes, there we go.

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Speaker 1: How are you doing, Trey?

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Speaker 2: I am doing great. How are you doing, sir? Thank

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you for having me.

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Speaker 1: On, Peter, Yeah, no problem. And tell everybody a little

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bit about yourself.

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Speaker 2: Well, I'm a journalist, podcaster and an author. I have

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been in our kind of in our thing, I guess

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going on going on eight years now, and one of

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the biggest projects, in the most rewarding projects I was

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able to participate in, was writing this book Opioids for

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the masses, Big Farmer's War on the middle class and

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the working white class. It was a nine month research project,

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probably about six month writing project. It was actually a

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project with me and my partner, Richard McClure is. We

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really wanted to do something that no one had done before,

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and that is not just look at a certain Uh,

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there's that airplane I told you about, maybe it's not

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picking up on your end. We wanted to take a

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look at the hot spots hit hardest by the opioid

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epidemic and the people hit hardest by the opioid epidemic,

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which is the white working class. And no one had

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done it. They'd look at statistics, they drop somebody into

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some little small town where you know, there's been a

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number of overdoses, some hot spot for overdoses. The guy

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would stay for two or three days and then just file,

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you know, a simple report that really didn't look at

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the big problems going on. And we were able to

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fund a project where I was able to go into

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the Rust Belt, into Appalachia, the Deep South. I started

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actually here in Florida, of all places, my research and

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worked our way up through the Midwest, and I got

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to spend upwards of maybe you know, three, four or

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five weeks at a time. I'm in particular small towns

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talking to the people on the front lines, whether it

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was cops or judges, or lawyers, or healthcare workers or

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reformed addicts or you know, actual current addicts and dealing

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with the problem, and we interwove that story, the narrative

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there and telling their human stories about the struggles they

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were facing. With a bigger picture look at not only

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the involvement of the pharmaceutical companies, particularly the Purdue Pharma

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and the Sackler family, who really paved the way for

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this in a way that should they should be frog

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march to jail and facing with due process, actual capital

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punishment for the crimes they have committed. These are these

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are this was This was a soft geniside by bio

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by a chemical weapon, essentially. And then we were also

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able to talk to experts in the field of pharmacology

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at various universities Brandeis, University of Colorado at others that

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explained to us in a way that no one has

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talked about, which is these opioids for the most part,

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and I'm not saying that they're never necessary, but for

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the most part, the way they are prescribed, and the

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way they had been prescribed going on the last thirty years,

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was not only unnecessary but criminal. Now, obviously, if somebody

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is in some sort of you know, dealing with some

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sort of bone cancer or some sort of post op situation,

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obviously you need stronger painkillers. You know, we understand the

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issue of emergent pain. I myself in twenty twelve had

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shoulder surgery and it was orthoscopic, but it was a

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pain in the butt. And then I had to have

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this big ice pack thing that flowed cold water over

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and I was stuck in my chair for like four days,

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and they gave me these opioids, and there but for

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the grace of God, because at the time my ex

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wife or my wife at the time, was a psychiatric

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nurse practitioner, and she was very well versed on the

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addiction issues, on mental health issues. And I had always

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had sort of that rug, you know, well, if you're depressed,

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just go out and do something. Oh if you're addicted

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to something, just shake it off, you know, white knuckle it.

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And she actually made me more sensitive and more understanding

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of the issues involved. And it was three days into

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taking vicodin on I think every six hours that I

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was sitting there, going, well, I'm bored, I can't do anything.

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Maybe I'll have one at three hours, because they do

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really make you feel good. Somebody that I talked to

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and interviewed said that the first time you have an opioid,

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it's like being kissed on the lipspot God. And they're

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not entirely wrong, if that's a little bit of a

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blasphemous comparison. But I realized that, you know, if I

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wasn't careful, I was going to this could become my

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full time job. My full time job could become taking opioids.

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So I handed the bottle to her and I said,

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you need to treat me like a patient and only

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give this to me as prescribed, and maybe in about

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three days, we need to look at just getting me

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off this, because I can easily see how I can

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get addicted. This was long before this became a passion

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for me. This was just my own personal experience with it,

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and I just got lucky, to be honest. So that's

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what I've been doing. That's that's what my background is.

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My background. I was investigative reporter, magazine writer. I wrote

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a few really horrible I'm glad they got pulled fiction books,

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science fiction that nobody should be four Street, And in fact,

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maybe that should be punishment for you know, when for

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minor crimes is you have to read those books that

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I wrote. But this one I'm particularly proud of, and

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I really feel like the work we did was important

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because no one had done that before.

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Speaker 1: Well thank you for doing it, because I have done

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episodes on the opioid epidemic before, but mostly from a

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the economics of it, and we've talked about what we're

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going to talk about, how people get prescribed it and

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then they get pulled off of it and now they're

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hooked and they have to go elsewhere. They eventually go

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to the streets. But one of the things that you

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talked about right off the bat in the book is

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that oxy was sold as a safer painkiller even though

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it was opium based, and they said that there was

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they immediately said there were no addiction problems with it.

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So and also just throw this out there right away

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so people know you wrote this. I believe this was

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published in twenty twenty one, and in twenty twenty one

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you had said at that point there was an estimate

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four hundred to five hundred thousand deaths associated with this,

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which I assume has climbed, and not only due to

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what has been prescribed, but the fact that people get

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off of it and then they go to heroin, fentanyl,

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things like that. So talk a little bit about how

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it was sold to people or it sold to doctors.

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Really you have to solve it to the doctors first.

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Speaker 2: Well you have to understand. To understand that, you have

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to go to the background of Stackler family with Produce Pharma.

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They were Eastern European immigrants Jewish family that came over

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in the I think the twenties or thirties. You'll have

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to forgive me on a few if I get a

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few details a little bit off. It was four years

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ago that we actually did the research on this book,

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twenty nineteen, and I've kept myself reasonably refreshed, but I

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don't have every stat in my head anymore. But they

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were they brought what's the kindest way to say this,

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they brought innovative marketing strategies to pharmaceuticals that had previously

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been looked upon by the medical industry as entirely unethical

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and entirely detrimental to the patients that they took care of.

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And one of the early projects that they did was

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in the sixties with you know, Mother's Little Helper, the

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early xanax type anti depress or not anti depressants, anti

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anxiety medications, and that sort of thing, and so they

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were instrumental in they they didn't have at the law

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at the time did not allow for the advertising direct

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to consumer of these products. But they went really hard

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with the doctors and they were they started their plan

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of they'd buy up these medical journals and put their

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own people in charge, and then they issued these studies

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and arguments that doctors need to prescribe this, they need

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to prescribe this more, there's nothing harmful in doing this,

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and so in the early sixties they sort of laid

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out the template for this, but it was in the

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nineteen nineties of the late eighties nineteen nineties that they

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really went hardcore with this. They set up the American

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Pain Management Association, the American Pain Association again, I'm sorry,

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it's one of those two names, and it was an

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advocacy lobby group that pushed for changes in the laws

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so that you know, it was only in the nineties

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that you started seeing direct advertising on television for pharmacy,

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for prescription pharmaceuticals, and in particular, they lobbied for various

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changes in the medical industry. One of them was adding

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pain as a fifth vital sign. Doctors always check you know,

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your blood pressure, your heart rate, pulse, socks, that sort

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of thing. They said, pain has to be part of that,

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that that should be an integral part of what a

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doctor deals with. And they also issued uh or lobbied

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for these changes where on exits from hospitals, patients would

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you know, you can normally fill out these surveys how

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they you know, how they perceived their care, how they perceived,

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you know, what was done. And these surveys were in

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part used or remuneration through insurance companies as well as

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through Medicare and Medicaid. They had in there, how is

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your pain at the end of your hospital stay or

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your hospital visit. So it became more and more of

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a thing where doctors started getting it in their heads,

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we have to make sure that the person's not in pain.

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And that's really if you think about it from a

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philosophical even the medical standpoint, that's a silly idea, because

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while you know, no one wants to see another person

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in pain, pain is often a warning sign. It's a

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it's a thing that keeps you from doing the same

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thing so that you don't injure yourself further. So like

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if you've sprain, if you've dislocated your patella, if you've

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dislocated your shoulder, if you've broken this or that, the

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pain is what keeps you from stressing it until it's better. Now,

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obviously I'm just talking of broad things, and so like

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again postop, somebody who's have a serious surgery, somebody's dealing

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with the pain of certain cancers. That's not what I'm

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talking about. I'm talking about. They've made it to where

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it was the ordinary daily visits. It was the ordinary

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routine sort of things, where oh, well, so you're in pain,

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Well before you let me go, let me let me

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give you a prescription for ten various you know, vicodin

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or or oxycotton or whatever it is. And then constantly

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you know, uh, and then concurrently with that, Purdue Pharma

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came up with oxycottin which they uh just blatantly lied

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in their research and in their marketing materials. To the doctors,

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which was, oh, well, this we have a time release

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coding on these, and this thing is not as addictive

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as regular. We've processed in a way that it's not

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as addictive as regular opioid, so don't worry about it.

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So in nineteen ninety five nineteen ninety six they launched

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oxy cotton and within two years had the market share

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of the painkiller market. And that was sort of the

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we had been started trending towards the idea of pain

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management and overprescription of opioids. But that was the watershed moment.

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And since that time, since I think it was nineteen

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ninety nine, and you cited the statistics that we quoted

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from twenty twenty of five hundred seven hundred thousand deaths,

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it we're breaching a million a lot sooner than we thought.

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Because what has happened is over the last twenty years,

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since this has become such a common practice, is there

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have been ebbs and flows. There have been attempts to

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correct the ship. In particular, it got really bad in

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the late twenty tens, early two thousand teens, and by

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then you had some movements within government, within certain regulatory bodies,

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to curtail the prescription of these opioids. And you know,

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I'm not saying that they Maybe their hearts were in

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the right place, and maybe some of the policies were

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decent but didn't go far enough or went too far,

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but there was a downtick. Twenty seventeen I think was

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the high point, high water mark at the time we

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were doing the research, and are twenty seventeen in nineteen

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twenty nineteen. We looked at twenty seventeen as the high

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water market and we thought, even though it was a

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minor decline, it was starting to tick down as a

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result of these policies. But what we found on the street,

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on what we found in our research, and what has

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since emerged since the publication of the book, is these

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where they had curtailed it, you had actually an increase

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in overdoses because, as you said, people will turn to

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the street version of opioids, which is heroin, and heroin

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is dangerous enough as it is, But then we also

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had the concurrent problem of finnyl starting coming to the country,

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and that's a synthetic opioid that's far more dangerous, far

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more in control, usually made in sheep Chinese labs with

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no oversight, so that you know, you don't know if

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you're getting a you know what strength, what garbage goes

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into it. But it is just the high number of

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overdoses that has since happened is in part because of

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the addition of opioids to these street drugs, or the

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opioid the fennyl directly. Let it also dangerous. Let me

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let me.

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Speaker 1: Let me quote you. You said in the book, you said,

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every once in a while, you come across a number

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that crystallizes reality and it can stop you cold. For us,

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it was this. According to data from the CDC, overdoses

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involving opioids killed more than forty seven thousand Americans in

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twenty seventeen. More than a third of those depths involved

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the legal prescription opioids. In twenty nineteen, there were eighty

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one thousand drug over of step overdose deaths, of which

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the CDC estimates more than seventy percent were opioid related YEP.

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Speaker 2: One of the problems with measuring this is that there

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are multiple different factors that go into and into how

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we measure it, as well as the various high what

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would you say inflection points overdoses, overdoses by death, actual

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overprescription because we were looking at these all when we

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were targeting what communities we wanted to go into. And

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you also had concurrent with the around the twenty sixteen,

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when government was starting to occasionally, you know, at state levels,

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crack down on this. You had the movement to give

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all first responders narcan. So you had sort of a

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false sense that maybe the problem was going down because

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you had fewer overdose death but if you look deeper

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into the data, you had a rising number of actual overdoses.

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So while the narcan thing was good for saving lives,

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it masked the problem. And what we've seen since the

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publication of the book, with the COVID lockdowns and all that,

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we saw an increase in the number of deaths of spare.

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We saw an increase in the number of people recidivating,

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recidivating on you know, drinking and using drugs because you know,

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they're locked in their house, they have nothing to do,

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nowhere to go. You know, they couldn't go to their meetings,

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they couldn't you know, do their sobriety steps or whatever.

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And so we had a huge increase. And then last

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year I think, and I don't have the numbers in

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front of me, but we hit another high water mark,

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over one hundred thousand deaths by overdose, and it's only

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going to get worse. It's only going to get worse

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because there's no serious concern about the people who were dying.

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I actually had pushback from people yea in particularly even

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on the cover title, the part of it where it

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says the white working class, because they would say, well,

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you know, the opiold crisis affects all Americans. Well, sure

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it does, but it disproportionately affects white Americans, and particularly

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working class white Americans. And if you sit there and

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say that white people don't have unique interests, if you

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say that white people don't have unique challenges and problems

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that need to be addressed by government or by society,

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well you sound like an asshole. You know that's what

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you are. I mean, you're sitting there denying an entire

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people and then denying the problems that they're facing. What

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does that make you? That makes you an asshole.

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Speaker 1: Here's another quote from the book. It says, we now

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live in America where working class, predominantly white, rural people

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whose parents and grandparents would have spat at the idea

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of shooting up or now living and dying with needles

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in their arms.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I got to spend I This was a like

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I said, this was a passion project for me and Richard.

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But I'm not going to lie and say that there

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weren't some enjoyable moments of doing the research. I got

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to go to parts of the country that it doesn't

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matter where you are what you're doing. If you have

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a vacation, if you have a couple of weeks off,

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if you have a little bit saved up, you're going

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to go to the beach. You're gonna go snow skiing,

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You're gonna do those kind of things. You're not gonna

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get to always visit parts of rural America, flower America,

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whatever the elites want to call it. And I had

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not actually spent much time in Kentucky, out in the Hollers,

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or in West Virginia. And I got to meet some

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of the most amazing people. These are the quote unquote hillbillies.

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These are the you know, people who just you know

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have in rural Appalaysia that don't really give a damn

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about the world's problems. They worry about their own communities

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or their own hollers, and they would welcome us into

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their homes, give us real moonshine. And these are you know,

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these are country boys, and some of smoked weed, that

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sort of thing. Nothing that you would not expect. But

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what we found was because I dealt with some folks

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who had beaten their addiction, people who had been drug

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mules driving down to Florida back during the heyday of

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the pill mills in Florida. They would put them on

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a bus and send you know, a dozen people down

335
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there to hit to doctor shop and then hit a

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whole bunch of pharmacies and bring it all back to

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Kentucky or to West Virginia, that's those locations, and fled

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the area with it. But they were dealing with this,

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and like I said, these are people that you know,

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00:19:24,599 --> 00:19:26,839
a couple of generations ago. Even when they came, you know,

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their sons and daughters came back from Vietnam. You know,

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there was moonshine, there was weed. But you take that

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heroin stuff, you take those needles, and that that's the

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city problem. That's not for us. But they come along

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and it's almost like this story of like Elvis. If

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you don't know some of the stories about him, he

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would say, you know, I don't take drugs. I've never

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taken drugs. I take medicine. And so these people who

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had previously worked, you know, when they could still work,

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they you know, worked at the coal mines and that's

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repetitive and that's a hard job, and you get a

352
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lot of repetitives dress injuries. They were targeted bodies companies

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to be flooded, to to market to their doctors in

354
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the local areas, or to bring in doctors. As I

355
00:20:09,720 --> 00:20:13,079
found out, there's a whole lot of doctors from India

356
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that set up shop that have absolutely no compulsion about

357
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writing all these destructive prescriptions because they're getting paid. And

358
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it changed the attitude of these folks, people who, like

359
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I said, had never who would have chased you out

360
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of town if you had said, you know, I want

361
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to bring heroin to this this part of the country.

362
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They've been like no and no. But their attitude now was, well, no,

363
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the doctor gave it to me. It's it's in medicine,

364
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and that's that's really that's to me, Like one of

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the biggest crimes is the redefinition of these words in

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a way that makes the unacceptable acceptable.

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Speaker 1: Before I get into talking about and asking about whether

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this was targeted or not, you had already brought up

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West Virginia, and I copy and pasted this that I

370
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I needed to read this directly and said. And yet

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no alarm sounded at either the CDC or FDA. Even

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as prescriptions and refills spiral beyond plausible numbers, distributors simply

373
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loaded up pharmacies with more pills and collected record profits

374
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on the burgeoning sales. Records in congressional testimony from twenty

375
00:21:22,119 --> 00:21:25,680
eighteen show that from two thousand and seven to twenty twelve,

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distributors sent more than seven hundred and eighty million hydrocodon

377
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and oxycodon pills into West Virginia. Not into the country,

378
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this is into West Virginia. And that broke down to

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four hundred and thirty three pills for every man, woman

380
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and child. And then you break it down even further.

381
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One town of four hundred residents was sent nine million

382
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opioid pills in two years. Another less than eighteen hundred

383
00:21:57,920 --> 00:22:02,759
citizens received sixteen ze point five million in ten years.

384
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Another population twenty nine hundred received almost twenty one million

385
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pills during that decade.

386
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Speaker 2: Was this.

387
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Speaker 1: Was this on purpose? Was this about profit? Was it

388
00:22:20,839 --> 00:22:29,079
about targeting a population that is I mean openly demonized

389
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on TV now, I mean on the evening news white people.

390
00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:36,440
Were they targeted?

391
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Speaker 2: Absolutely? And I've gone back and forth on the issue

392
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of whether it was a malicious targeting in the sense

393
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of we just want to do this to destroy these people,

394
00:22:47,279 --> 00:22:49,440
or was it for profits? And I guess I've come

395
00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:52,400
to the conclusion that it was both and kind of interlinked.

396
00:22:52,599 --> 00:22:54,960
If we can make a profit and be harmful to,

397
00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:58,000
you know, this population that we either you know, on

398
00:22:58,039 --> 00:23:00,519
the on the one hand, don't care about, or on

399
00:23:00,559 --> 00:23:02,880
the other hand, we actively dislike. Like I said, they

400
00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:06,039
use terms like flyover country. They see rural America, white

401
00:23:06,079 --> 00:23:09,119
America as a problem. They see this as an impediment

402
00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:14,880
to their agendas. And if you look through the emails

403
00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:20,440
between executives at these companies, they view white people as

404
00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:25,000
an alien population, as a lesser population. And like I said,

405
00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:27,440
a lot of these companies have these like the Sackler

406
00:23:27,559 --> 00:23:33,559
family or various Jewish CEOs and all that that, you know,

407
00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:39,319
they see profit first. They see this as we're another tribe.

408
00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:42,240
So what is done to us if it's harmful? Oh well,

409
00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:45,759
you know, I still made my buck, right. You see

410
00:23:45,759 --> 00:23:48,799
the emails between them talking about how when certain states

411
00:23:48,799 --> 00:23:51,400
would make changes and make it more difficult for them

412
00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:54,359
to peddle their wares, they would make jokes about, well,

413
00:23:54,359 --> 00:23:56,039
it looks like old Jed's gonna have to be a

414
00:23:56,079 --> 00:23:58,720
pillbilly somewhere else will have to go instead of Florida,

415
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he'll have to go to Tennessee to get his drugs.

416
00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:05,720
The callousness was absolutely criminal and outrageous, and it shows

417
00:24:05,759 --> 00:24:09,279
that it was intentional. It was not a matter of oh, well,

418
00:24:09,319 --> 00:24:12,000
we're trying to provide this, you know, helpful service and

419
00:24:12,039 --> 00:24:15,039
some people are abusing it. It was we know what's

420
00:24:15,039 --> 00:24:18,160
going on. We know exactly what's going on, and we

421
00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:21,160
don't care, and we are going to turn billions in profit.

422
00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:25,960
There was an email in the company short like a

423
00:24:26,039 --> 00:24:29,000
year after the launch of Oxycon in the nineteen nineties

424
00:24:29,279 --> 00:24:31,599
where they said, we're going to blanket this country with this.

425
00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:36,720
Who says that? Who says that?

426
00:24:36,759 --> 00:24:37,000
Speaker 1: This is?

427
00:24:37,279 --> 00:24:41,920
Speaker 2: You know, something we know is dangerous, it can be abused.

428
00:24:42,160 --> 00:24:43,960
Our attitude is we're gonna blanket the country because it'll

429
00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:48,359
make us billions, and it did. So I went back

430
00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:51,279
and forth. I you know, I'm a human being. I

431
00:24:51,319 --> 00:24:54,799
don't like to there's some part of me that doesn't

432
00:24:54,839 --> 00:24:58,359
like to ascribe the worst intense to people who are

433
00:24:58,359 --> 00:25:00,839
doing the worst things that I always want to try

434
00:25:00,839 --> 00:25:04,119
to like, what's the real thing going on here? Because

435
00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:05,640
I don't like to live in a world where everybody's

436
00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:11,519
cartoon villain or cartoon hero. It's silly. I've come to

437
00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:14,039
conclusions these are these are worse than cartoon villains. These

438
00:25:14,079 --> 00:25:16,640
are like bond villains. These are these are people that

439
00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:22,519
human life means nothing, profits mean everything, and they still

440
00:25:22,559 --> 00:25:25,119
to this day deny any culpability or what little that

441
00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:28,240
they've admitted to. They've done under the most intense retigious

442
00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:32,480
pressure and criminal pressure. So I don't think that there's

443
00:25:32,519 --> 00:25:37,279
anything positive that you can say about what their motives were.

444
00:25:37,319 --> 00:25:39,000
And I think whatever you think the worst of their

445
00:25:39,039 --> 00:25:40,559
motives are, you're probably right.

446
00:25:41,279 --> 00:25:43,039
Speaker 1: I just wanted to take a break and let you

447
00:25:43,119 --> 00:25:46,079
know how you can support the show. Head on over

448
00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:50,759
to Freemanbehaldthwall dot com, Forward slash support, you can see

449
00:25:50,799 --> 00:25:54,319
every way Patreon my website, which is the best way

450
00:25:54,839 --> 00:26:00,279
subscribe star Substack. There's even some crypto addresses there. Also

451
00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:04,400
there is my po box PO Box eight three to two, Auburn,

452
00:26:04,519 --> 00:26:09,400
Alabama three six eight three one. Send me anything you want.

453
00:26:09,799 --> 00:26:12,880
I appreciate all of you and your continued support means

454
00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:16,440
the world to me. Thank you very much. Yeah, it's

455
00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:20,200
interesting that we went through a moving on through two

456
00:26:20,319 --> 00:26:23,519
years and almost it will be three years soon. Of

457
00:26:24,559 --> 00:26:27,200
you could say, some people make the argument that that

458
00:26:27,319 --> 00:26:30,440
happened naturally, that that was it came from nature, it

459
00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:33,880
came from a bat. Okay, okay, I'll give that this

460
00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:38,799
didn't This didn't happen by accident. This was planned. This

461
00:26:39,079 --> 00:26:46,000
was put together and propagandized by people with the money

462
00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:47,880
and the power and the influence to do it.

463
00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:50,799
Speaker 2: You can see that in what I don't know if

464
00:26:50,799 --> 00:26:52,160
we want to skip to the end, in the sense

465
00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:57,920
of what little justice has happened. They the deals they

466
00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:02,200
cut to avoid culpability, the things they were allowed to

467
00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:06,319
do to preserve their profits, in particularly like the Sackler

468
00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:09,680
family while they were under investigation, while they were facing

469
00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:14,519
multiple class action lawsuits from the various states attorney generals,

470
00:27:14,559 --> 00:27:20,400
sorry attorneys general, while they were facing lawsuits and pressure

471
00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:24,440
from the government, knowing that one of the results of

472
00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:27,160
these class action lawsuits could be, you know, a siege

473
00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:29,160
of their funds and that sort of thing. They were

474
00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:34,279
allowed to ship offshore to offshore banks. Billions of personal funds. Billions,

475
00:27:35,079 --> 00:27:36,960
not just oh well, I'm going to save a couple

476
00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:39,279
of millions from my retirement or you know, set aside

477
00:27:39,319 --> 00:27:43,480
my little skape fund. We're talking billions. It's insane. And

478
00:27:43,519 --> 00:27:46,400
then the actual judgments that they got in particularly the

479
00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:49,559
Sycler family, but really a lot of these other companies,

480
00:27:50,599 --> 00:27:54,480
there was no criminal liability they were with. In the

481
00:27:54,519 --> 00:27:56,480
case of the Sacklers, part of the deal that they

482
00:27:56,559 --> 00:27:59,400
signed was that they would not be liable for future

483
00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:03,599
lawsuits uh you know uh in other criminal, criminal or

484
00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:06,039
civil liabilities. And they would have and they would give

485
00:28:06,039 --> 00:28:08,599
over a small token billion or two. But we're talking

486
00:28:08,599 --> 00:28:11,279
about a company that I think at its high point

487
00:28:11,279 --> 00:28:14,640
it was over twenty billion dollars and a family that had,

488
00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:16,359
you know, banked a lot of that and set it

489
00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:21,240
aside away from the company. It's easy to look at

490
00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:23,240
some of the judgments they got and say, well, justice

491
00:28:23,279 --> 00:28:26,640
was done, because we're talking billions of dollars. But that's

492
00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:30,519
not restorative. That's not that made no one hole that

493
00:28:30,599 --> 00:28:32,640
money was you know, whatever was done with it by

494
00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:35,000
the states. You know, it got redirected. It's not going

495
00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:37,240
back into those communities that I would visited that were

496
00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:39,960
shattered by this. And it's not gonna even if some

497
00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:42,880
of it trickled down in some small amounts of damages

498
00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:44,759
to some of the worst cases, and it's not it's

499
00:28:44,839 --> 00:28:46,519
I'm not saying even if it did, but it's not.

500
00:28:47,279 --> 00:28:49,920
It doesn't restore entire communities that were stored by this.

501
00:28:50,519 --> 00:28:52,440
And in particular, what story I like to tell is

502
00:28:52,519 --> 00:28:57,160
about Jasper, Alabama. I'm actually from the Deep South, and

503
00:28:57,240 --> 00:28:59,400
I had no idea that Jasper was a coal town.

504
00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:02,519
I grew up not too far from there. I just

505
00:29:02,559 --> 00:29:04,839
didn't know, didn't know when I was a kid, and

506
00:29:05,279 --> 00:29:08,039
I spent about a month there and one of the

507
00:29:08,079 --> 00:29:10,200
most amazing things I learned I was talking to a

508
00:29:10,279 --> 00:29:12,440
drug court judge who was one of the University of Alabama,

509
00:29:12,519 --> 00:29:14,599
my alma mater, who was actually younger than me. And

510
00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:16,759
that way, that's a weird moment when you're talking to

511
00:29:16,799 --> 00:29:19,079
a judge and you realize he's younger than you. This

512
00:29:19,119 --> 00:29:20,680
is one of those maturity things where it's just like,

513
00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:23,200
oh my god, this guy's he's a kid, but he's

514
00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:26,000
a judge. But no, he's a wonderful guy. But he

515
00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:28,240
told me about the history of what had happened in

516
00:29:28,079 --> 00:29:32,720
the mid twenty tens in that community in Jasper in

517
00:29:33,039 --> 00:29:36,720
the late nineties early two thousands, the coal my cop

518
00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:40,559
pliants had shut down and it was devastating to the community,

519
00:29:40,559 --> 00:29:42,359
as it was with a lot of others throughout the

520
00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:47,279
throughout Appalaysia. In the mid twenty ten teens, around twenty

521
00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:50,759
thirteen twenty fifteen, a company came in and said, because

522
00:29:50,759 --> 00:29:53,039
of the weight energy prices were and fracking and this

523
00:29:53,079 --> 00:29:55,160
and that going on in the ups and downs of

524
00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:58,240
the energy market, it was economically viable to real from

525
00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:01,839
those coal mines. At fifteen hundred direct jobs in a

526
00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:04,039
town of like fifteen thousand, that's ten percent. You know,

527
00:30:04,039 --> 00:30:07,920
that's ten percent job growth instantly, and that's direct jobs.

528
00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:09,720
Because a lot of people don't like to you know,

529
00:30:10,039 --> 00:30:12,240
I think about these things because I'm a former business journalist.

530
00:30:12,279 --> 00:30:14,720
But when you bring in a you know, when you

531
00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:18,119
increase your workforce by ten percent, that also has economic

532
00:30:18,839 --> 00:30:21,119
implications for the rest of the town. It's good. You're

533
00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:23,720
gonna have a whole bunch of indirect jobs. Drivers, you're

534
00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:27,119
gonna have business growth. You're gonna have restaurants, you're gonna

535
00:30:27,119 --> 00:30:29,119
have service industry. You're gonna have all these things that will,

536
00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:32,519
you know, cause a town to flourish. And Jasper is

537
00:30:32,519 --> 00:30:35,319
a wonderful little town. Parts of it. The downtown is

538
00:30:35,759 --> 00:30:40,200
just gorgeous. It's very historical. I really enjoyed being there.

539
00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:42,000
But you know, you go outside of the downtown and

540
00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:49,359
you're talking about abject poverty among white people, third world poverty.

541
00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:51,799
I mean, it was it was just heartbreaking to see

542
00:30:51,799 --> 00:30:54,839
what I saw. And what he told me was they

543
00:30:54,839 --> 00:30:58,440
came to the town. The company did they wanted to

544
00:30:58,519 --> 00:31:01,640
hire and reopen the mind. They could not find fifteen

545
00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:05,359
hundred people who could pass a drug test, so they

546
00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:07,279
had to show their plans. What do you think that

547
00:31:07,279 --> 00:31:10,960
does that community? It continues its death it's death spiral.

548
00:31:12,559 --> 00:31:17,119
This is a lost opportunity to reignite, this, to reinvigorate

549
00:31:17,119 --> 00:31:20,079
this town is gone. And you tell me that some

550
00:31:20,119 --> 00:31:24,279
part of the settlement with the various class action lawsuits,

551
00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:27,680
you know, none of that money is going to that

552
00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:29,640
community and what could go to that community to make

553
00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:32,079
it whole again, because none of this would have happened

554
00:31:32,079 --> 00:31:33,279
if it wasn't for them in the first place. And

555
00:31:33,319 --> 00:31:35,839
there's no there's no remuneration, there's no making it whole,

556
00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:39,920
there's no In what we've seen, there's still has not

557
00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:40,599
been justice.

558
00:31:41,839 --> 00:31:45,079
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm looking at Jasper right now and

559
00:31:45,119 --> 00:31:51,440
it's just looks like a very typical Alabama town. And yeah,

560
00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:56,519
I mean my mother's family is all from western Pennsylvania

561
00:31:57,079 --> 00:32:02,000
coal mine towns. My grandfather did coal mining when he

562
00:32:02,079 --> 00:32:07,839
was young. Yeah, those very easy people to target. I mean,

563
00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:10,200
you're talking about people who you worn't in a coal

564
00:32:10,279 --> 00:32:12,119
mine for ten years, You're going to have pain the

565
00:32:12,119 --> 00:32:15,400
rest of your life. And it's just hey, take this,

566
00:32:15,519 --> 00:32:18,200
it's non addictive. And then it's like, okay, I can't

567
00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:24,960
live without this. What was I had one written here?

568
00:32:26,359 --> 00:32:30,079
It said some people who were living through this. You

569
00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:34,960
mentioned that there were videos of people who just like

570
00:32:35,079 --> 00:32:38,599
overdosed in public, like on benches and things like that,

571
00:32:39,039 --> 00:32:44,960
and this one was insane. Even the survival stories can

572
00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:49,119
make you feel a bone deep kind of sadness in Jacksonville, Florida,

573
00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:51,799
a young woman candidly told the local news station of

574
00:32:51,799 --> 00:32:55,079
her struggles with opioids that started when she was prescribed

575
00:32:55,119 --> 00:32:57,480
them at the age of sixteen to alleviate the pain

576
00:32:57,559 --> 00:33:01,880
of ovarian cysts. Year years later, she was still fighting addiction.

577
00:33:02,839 --> 00:33:06,240
And this is quoting her. I remember doing the pregnancy test,

578
00:33:06,559 --> 00:33:08,880
putting it on the ground and shooting up while I

579
00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:12,079
was waiting for the test results to come back. Crystal

580
00:33:12,079 --> 00:33:15,359
Harrison sold First Coast News. I was prescribed them for

581
00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:18,240
about two months, and when the prescription ran out, I

582
00:33:18,279 --> 00:33:20,359
started looking in the street for them. I went from

583
00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:25,200
lortab to oxacoton to heroin to fentanyl, and it was

584
00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:29,319
just and all. It was just. It's been a downhill

585
00:33:29,359 --> 00:33:35,240
effect since I was sixteen until now eighteen. And that

586
00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:41,880
was a sixteen year old being prescribed basically synthetic heroin.

587
00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:47,640
Speaker 2: One of the things we found was the first exposure

588
00:33:47,759 --> 00:33:54,359
to opioid painkillers for the majority of people who end

589
00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:56,400
up for the majority of people who end up using them,

590
00:33:56,440 --> 00:33:59,200
but also those who end up abusing them. There's a difference. Obviously.

591
00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:01,880
Some people, well, all right, like I was lucky, Like

592
00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:03,319
I said, I took it for a couple of days

593
00:34:03,359 --> 00:34:07,720
and that was it. That was done. But the first

594
00:34:07,759 --> 00:34:09,559
exposure for people who both use them as well as

595
00:34:09,599 --> 00:34:13,239
those who end up being addicted, comes from their dentist

596
00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:17,320
and their family doctor. And you know, let's assume the

597
00:34:17,559 --> 00:34:20,159
best case scenario that the best motives on the part

598
00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:23,440
of these denist and doctors. But you get your wisdom,

599
00:34:23,480 --> 00:34:24,840
teeth and rood and they give you a week's worth

600
00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:27,840
boxic con or they did back in the day. What

601
00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:29,159
do you think that's going to do to a sixteen

602
00:34:29,199 --> 00:34:31,960
year old. You know, they're still trying to figure themselves out.

603
00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:35,559
Who you know, all the troubles that you go through

604
00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:38,920
in high school, all the you know, oh here's something

605
00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:40,320
better than you. I'm not gonna call it with this,

606
00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:42,440
but you know, as I would with beer or whatever.

607
00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:45,119
Speaker 1: When I was in high school, I mean, I was

608
00:34:45,159 --> 00:34:50,400
on the hockey team and we had access to quote

609
00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:55,239
unquote black beauties, this antrotamine jes yeah, pretty much every

610
00:34:55,599 --> 00:34:58,400
pretty much every athlete in school. And I mean this

611
00:34:58,440 --> 00:35:02,760
is in the eighties that we had access to the

612
00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:04,199
pharmaceutical anpatomy.

613
00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:07,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, And one of the things that we discovered was

614
00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:11,920
experts in pharmacology that we discussed we talked about when

615
00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:14,760
we interviewed for this book. Told us that there's no

616
00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:19,800
reason for things like wisdom teeth, removal of sprained you know,

617
00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:23,800
spraind just located limb or something like that. No reason

618
00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:27,199
for those kind of levels of pain relief. And in fact,

619
00:35:27,719 --> 00:35:31,400
if you stack advil or ibuprofen with tail and all,

620
00:35:32,119 --> 00:35:34,760
it actually gives you like a thirty percent better pain

621
00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:38,119
relief than actual opioence. So there was really no reason

622
00:35:38,159 --> 00:35:40,079
for this had to happen in the first place. It's

623
00:35:40,119 --> 00:35:41,920
just all these doctors and Dennis were sold on the

624
00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:45,159
idea that you need to give true pain relief and

625
00:35:45,159 --> 00:35:46,639
this is the only way to do it. And don't worry.

626
00:35:46,639 --> 00:35:49,320
It's not addictive. It's not it's not addictive, don't worry

627
00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:56,679
about it, and it's it's I don't want to. I

628
00:35:56,719 --> 00:35:59,440
have had a very career. One of the early things

629
00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:04,039
that I did was working in West Memphis, Arkansas as

630
00:36:04,079 --> 00:36:08,559
a reporter. And this was back in the nineties and

631
00:36:08,599 --> 00:36:10,639
we had very little budget as well as the Sheriff's

632
00:36:10,639 --> 00:36:13,639
department also had very little budget. And the town was

633
00:36:13,679 --> 00:36:18,920
at an intersection of two different interstates, so you had

634
00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:22,320
a lot of trucking coming through. Consequently a lot of accidents,

635
00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:26,440
and the Sheriff's apartment would use us sometimes as reporters

636
00:36:26,519 --> 00:36:28,000
would go to the scene of an accident, but they'd

637
00:36:28,039 --> 00:36:31,960
also have us take photos of the scene for the

638
00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:34,800
actual criminal record or the accent reports and that sort

639
00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:37,440
of thing. So I saw a whole lot of horrible

640
00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:41,280
things in the sense of mangled bodies, you know, semi

641
00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:44,000
truck and car wrecks, never going to be something you

642
00:36:44,039 --> 00:36:46,119
want to think about. And it left a lot of

643
00:36:46,239 --> 00:36:49,119
haunting memories of some of the worst things I had

644
00:36:49,119 --> 00:36:51,480
seen up until we started doing the research for this book,

645
00:36:52,199 --> 00:36:56,079
and when I some time bedded with the police in

646
00:36:56,159 --> 00:37:00,000
Kentucky in various small towns as well as in Lexington. Lexington,

647
00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:02,519
by the way, again one of those places I might

648
00:37:02,519 --> 00:37:05,760
not have ever visited. Loved the place, great place, great people,

649
00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:11,679
but we went on calls and they would discover things

650
00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:15,960
like and I've described some of it in my book

651
00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:20,480
or in the book with me and Richard and a

652
00:37:20,559 --> 00:37:24,519
lady would be overdosed on the floor dead with a

653
00:37:24,639 --> 00:37:28,760
child in the room, you know, two year old, and

654
00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:33,320
the child when they were looking at the body trying

655
00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:35,599
to figure out exactly, you know, the sequence of events.

656
00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:38,039
You know, the child's already been taken away by Child

657
00:37:38,039 --> 00:37:41,599
Protective Services were at the actual scene and they realized

658
00:37:41,599 --> 00:37:45,679
there's milk around the mom's mouth, and so she's blue

659
00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:48,199
or she's dead on the floor. She's been overdosed, and

660
00:37:48,239 --> 00:37:50,639
they're like, why is there milk around her mouth? The child,

661
00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:53,760
the baby had thought, well, this is how we get

662
00:37:53,760 --> 00:37:55,599
mommy to wake up, and she started trying to give

663
00:37:55,599 --> 00:37:58,360
it her mom, her milk that, you know, the last

664
00:37:58,360 --> 00:38:01,119
bottle of milk their mom had fixed war before she overdosed,

665
00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:04,880
or there would be you know, I don't know if

666
00:38:05,039 --> 00:38:06,679
you know how bad the explosure of finnel can be

667
00:38:06,719 --> 00:38:11,159
when it's in its concentrated form. Actual you know, officers

668
00:38:11,199 --> 00:38:13,159
like opening a trunk with it stored in the trunk.

669
00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:18,239
Just the fumes itself could send them into an overse situation.

670
00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:21,199
And that actually happened as well. But one of the

671
00:38:21,199 --> 00:38:24,400
sites that we went to, here's a baby in a crib,

672
00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:28,440
here's the table, they're doing their sorting, and they're they're

673
00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:30,880
stepping on their product and all that, and they're overdosed

674
00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:33,880
on the floor. They're dead. The parents and then here's

675
00:38:33,920 --> 00:38:36,039
the baby's crib all of two feet away from this

676
00:38:36,239 --> 00:38:40,559
big stack of fentanyl. Things like that's I mean, I'm

677
00:38:40,599 --> 00:38:42,159
not going to ever get that out of my brain.

678
00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:46,199
And that's the depravity, the horror that the stuff can

679
00:38:46,239 --> 00:38:50,920
bring upon people. And so while I said earlier that

680
00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:54,400
I like to try to find, you know, assume that,

681
00:38:54,519 --> 00:38:56,280
you know, the motives are a little more complex than

682
00:38:56,440 --> 00:39:02,840
simple super villain versus you know, broadshant hero. When I

683
00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:06,440
think of those scenes, I'm thinking, these really people are

684
00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:08,920
worse than anything. And you know, we can come up

685
00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:11,679
with in fiction as a stand in for a villain.

686
00:39:12,039 --> 00:39:15,760
These people prey upon their fellow man in a way

687
00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:20,599
that you know, conquerors of old, you know, you know,

688
00:39:21,880 --> 00:39:24,400
killers of old, conquerors of old. They would straight up

689
00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:27,960
kill you. Okay, and that's horrible, but there's at least

690
00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:29,960
some honor in that. But to string you out on

691
00:39:30,039 --> 00:39:32,320
something like this, to promise you that it's good for you,

692
00:39:32,679 --> 00:39:35,239
to use the people you trust most in your life,

693
00:39:35,280 --> 00:39:39,440
the doctors, your healthcare providers, to create situations like this,

694
00:39:40,079 --> 00:39:45,000
these scenes of horrible depravity, like almost biblical evil. No,

695
00:39:46,239 --> 00:39:47,960
you don't get any more benefit of the doubt from

696
00:39:47,960 --> 00:39:49,639
me on these things.

697
00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:53,119
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're just going to take a financial hit and

698
00:39:53,159 --> 00:39:56,679
they'll never have to suffer like the people who are suffering. Nope,

699
00:39:57,119 --> 00:40:03,000
you mentioned interviewing people who were actually opioids, people who

700
00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:05,760
are making the runs of the states and bringing them back.

701
00:40:06,800 --> 00:40:09,000
I would have to assume in a lot of cases,

702
00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:13,239
the people they're dealing to are people and their family.

703
00:40:13,480 --> 00:40:16,239
People they know, people they've grown up with, people they've

704
00:40:16,239 --> 00:40:20,719
known their whole lives. It's their community. How do they

705
00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:23,000
handle it, how do they I mean, how do they

706
00:40:23,039 --> 00:40:25,800
get past it once they realize exactly what they're doing.

707
00:40:29,159 --> 00:40:31,360
Speaker 2: I think that that motivates a lot of these people,

708
00:40:31,400 --> 00:40:33,760
because it's not just a matter of getting clean yourself.

709
00:40:34,079 --> 00:40:36,679
You know, that's a hard enough struggle, and I think

710
00:40:36,719 --> 00:40:38,760
we all should be trying to be more understanding towards

711
00:40:38,760 --> 00:40:43,159
people dealing with this. I think that when they start

712
00:40:43,199 --> 00:40:46,079
to realize that, that's what really kicks them into high gear.

713
00:40:46,159 --> 00:40:48,480
And that's why I saw so many wonderful stories of

714
00:40:48,519 --> 00:40:51,119
people who had overcome their addiction, and then we're reaching

715
00:40:51,159 --> 00:40:54,440
out and trying to help in their own communities. One

716
00:40:54,519 --> 00:40:57,519
lady I interviewed actually in Jasper as well. She ran

717
00:40:57,840 --> 00:41:01,239
she was the head of a women's recovery home. And

718
00:41:01,960 --> 00:41:03,920
if you had met her on the street, if you

719
00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:07,559
had met her in any other social situation, you thought, Okay,

720
00:41:07,599 --> 00:41:11,559
she's maybe thirty, she's she looks like a former Alabama

721
00:41:11,599 --> 00:41:14,760
sorority girl, you know, slightly conservative, you know, very well

722
00:41:14,800 --> 00:41:18,119
put together outfit, you know, has a kind of cute

723
00:41:18,159 --> 00:41:22,400
Alabama sorority girl look to her whatever. And one of

724
00:41:22,440 --> 00:41:23,800
the first things she told me was about how she

725
00:41:23,840 --> 00:41:27,039
went to prison for accessory to murder in her twenties.

726
00:41:27,280 --> 00:41:30,599
She told me about how her parents had actually taught

727
00:41:30,639 --> 00:41:34,960
her how to fake injuries. They would load them up

728
00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:37,360
in the car and take them around doctors shopping throughout

729
00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:42,599
northern Alabama, through southern Tennessee and through east northeastern Mississippi

730
00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:47,239
and go doctor shopping and go to you know, sit

731
00:41:47,320 --> 00:41:50,800
there and fake their way through, you know, this injury,

732
00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:53,039
knowing exactly what to tell the doctors that they get

733
00:41:53,039 --> 00:41:56,800
these prescriptions and get them filled. And that was her,

734
00:41:57,280 --> 00:42:00,440
you know, her her adolescence, that was her from to

735
00:42:00,440 --> 00:42:04,360
about age fifteen. So it's not just a matter of

736
00:42:04,480 --> 00:42:06,559
like people praying on their ow communities. People were praying

737
00:42:06,559 --> 00:42:08,400
on their own families, when they're caught up in this.

738
00:42:09,320 --> 00:42:11,760
And then she went to prison as accessory to murder.

739
00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:14,119
She it was one of those situations and I don't

740
00:42:14,119 --> 00:42:16,079
recall all the details, but the long and the short

741
00:42:16,079 --> 00:42:18,320
of it was, she was present and her boyfriend committed

742
00:42:18,320 --> 00:42:20,760
the murder, and so she did a couple of years,

743
00:42:20,800 --> 00:42:24,280
but obviously she wasn't as culpable, and when she got

744
00:42:24,320 --> 00:42:26,119
out she was clean, and she you know, she'd go

745
00:42:26,119 --> 00:42:29,960
out through a program within the prison and she was clean.

746
00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:31,760
And when her mom picked her up from prison to

747
00:42:31,800 --> 00:42:34,159
take her home, she said, I need to make a stop.

748
00:42:35,760 --> 00:42:38,320
She was going to pick up drugs and then make

749
00:42:38,360 --> 00:42:41,079
another stop on the way home to sell. And she thought,

750
00:42:41,360 --> 00:42:44,360
if I don't get out of this now, right now,

751
00:42:44,679 --> 00:42:46,840
they don't get out of this car. Just I'm going

752
00:42:46,920 --> 00:42:51,239
right back into this because my parents are you know,

753
00:42:51,320 --> 00:42:54,239
imagine picking up your child who says I'm finally clean.

754
00:42:54,280 --> 00:42:56,960
I've been in prison, mom, because of this lifestyle you

755
00:42:57,000 --> 00:43:00,239
got me into and you pick them up and you're like, oh,

756
00:43:00,280 --> 00:43:01,480
I need to take you to a drug deal on

757
00:43:01,480 --> 00:43:05,599
the way home. I mean, that's the depravity this stuff

758
00:43:05,679 --> 00:43:09,039
makes possible. And in turn, she had taken all that

759
00:43:09,079 --> 00:43:11,880
pain she had taken all that, you know, that realization

760
00:43:11,960 --> 00:43:14,440
of what she was caught up in, and had first

761
00:43:14,480 --> 00:43:18,039
gone to this program as a member, and then within

762
00:43:18,119 --> 00:43:20,880
about three or four five years she was the head

763
00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:22,880
of the house. She was the president of the organization.

764
00:43:24,519 --> 00:43:26,760
So there are stories of victories out there, and there

765
00:43:26,760 --> 00:43:29,239
are stories of people who realize the damage they've done

766
00:43:29,280 --> 00:43:32,920
for the communities and to their families, to their people,

767
00:43:33,039 --> 00:43:37,199
to their fellow working class white people. They're fellow middle Americans,

768
00:43:37,800 --> 00:43:41,480
and they're actually doing something about it. And that's one

769
00:43:41,519 --> 00:43:43,239
of the few things that when I think about some

770
00:43:43,239 --> 00:43:44,760
of the images, I'll never get out of my head

771
00:43:44,800 --> 00:43:46,159
in a bad way. That's one of the things I

772
00:43:46,159 --> 00:43:49,039
always try to hold on to and think, Yeah, we

773
00:43:49,039 --> 00:43:51,679
can still overcome this. We can conquer anything, and these

774
00:43:51,719 --> 00:43:52,599
people are proving it.

775
00:43:53,320 --> 00:43:56,239
Speaker 1: Talk a little bit about TV ads because I know

776
00:43:56,320 --> 00:44:02,079
there are countries in Europe where it's illegal for pharmaceutical

777
00:44:02,119 --> 00:44:07,440
companies to advertise on TV. Yet oh it's I mean

778
00:44:07,559 --> 00:44:11,559
here every I don't have I haven't had a network

779
00:44:11,599 --> 00:44:14,920
TV in years, so I don't know, but I remember.

780
00:44:15,039 --> 00:44:16,679
I mean, I think I cut the court in twenty

781
00:44:16,719 --> 00:44:20,239
fourteen or twenty fifteen, but I remember all the ads.

782
00:44:20,320 --> 00:44:23,519
I remember that, Hey, you know this could cause diarrhea

783
00:44:23,559 --> 00:44:26,880
and death. Hey, you know, so talk a little bit

784
00:44:26,880 --> 00:44:31,159
about that. How do they manipulate that and use those.

785
00:44:31,599 --> 00:44:34,559
Speaker 2: Well, I'm old enough to actually remember. I went to

786
00:44:34,639 --> 00:44:37,320
high school in the eighties as well. I'm old enough

787
00:44:37,320 --> 00:44:40,159
to remember when there were no pharmaceutical ads on television,

788
00:44:40,159 --> 00:44:42,239
and when the first ones came on, they seemed so clumsy,

789
00:44:42,679 --> 00:44:44,159
and in fact, they seemed like they would scare you

790
00:44:44,199 --> 00:44:47,119
away from the prescription more so than towards it. And

791
00:44:47,239 --> 00:44:51,239
we're not talking about painkillers per se. We're talking about, oh,

792
00:44:51,320 --> 00:44:54,840
this lifestyle thing that you know, your allergies or your

793
00:44:56,199 --> 00:44:59,159
you know, some chronic problem that you have, and here's

794
00:44:59,159 --> 00:45:01,639
something that could help it. But also, you know, there

795
00:45:01,920 --> 00:45:04,199
was always that long disclaimer at the end. It's like,

796
00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:08,159
could cause diarrhea, could cause explosive diarrhea, could cause death,

797
00:45:08,199 --> 00:45:10,599
could cause high blood pressure, I could cause heart attack,

798
00:45:10,800 --> 00:45:13,199
And you're sitting there thinking that all sounds worse than

799
00:45:13,280 --> 00:45:16,639
this condition I'm dealing with. But they were clumsy at first,

800
00:45:16,679 --> 00:45:20,960
but they've gotten very refined since then, and you really

801
00:45:20,960 --> 00:45:24,239
see it for everything. We are so overprescribed. Americans have

802
00:45:24,280 --> 00:45:26,960
been sold this idea that if everything in their life

803
00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:29,639
is not perfect, that there's a pill for it, that

804
00:45:29,679 --> 00:45:33,920
there's a shortcut that if you're you know, I'll get

805
00:45:33,920 --> 00:45:36,239
to this point a minute. But going back to what

806
00:45:36,280 --> 00:45:38,440
you say about Europe, I was fortunate enough to live

807
00:45:38,480 --> 00:45:40,960
in Europe for about a year and I noticed when

808
00:45:40,960 --> 00:45:44,920
I did catch broadcast television, yeah, there there were no

809
00:45:44,960 --> 00:45:48,320
pharmaceutical lads whatsoever. None. And in fact, I have some

810
00:45:48,440 --> 00:45:50,639
friends in Europe that we talked about these sort of things.

811
00:45:50,840 --> 00:45:53,679
And I was saying something I need to get I

812
00:45:53,719 --> 00:45:55,119
need to stop the story and gets some title on

813
00:45:55,119 --> 00:45:58,079
I'm having some real lower back problems right now, and

814
00:45:58,119 --> 00:46:00,719
he's like, what the hell is title and all. I

815
00:46:00,760 --> 00:46:05,159
was like, well, it's a non prescription painkiller, you know, anti,

816
00:46:05,239 --> 00:46:09,320
anti inflammatory whatnot. He's like, why do Americans know the

817
00:46:09,400 --> 00:46:11,599
names of all these different drugs they have no I mean,

818
00:46:11,800 --> 00:46:15,480
he's a very well educated, very plugged in person that

819
00:46:15,519 --> 00:46:18,639
this guy I'm talking about he had. He was like, Advil,

820
00:46:20,280 --> 00:46:22,440
what are you talking about? You know they're a flu

821
00:46:22,960 --> 00:46:25,920
What is what is all this? It's it's just not

822
00:46:26,039 --> 00:46:28,480
part of that culture in the way that it is

823
00:46:28,519 --> 00:46:31,199
with us, the way that they sold it to Americans,

824
00:46:31,360 --> 00:46:35,840
and not that Europe doesn't have its problems, but this

825
00:46:36,079 --> 00:46:37,719
kind of made me sit back and think for a while.

826
00:46:37,719 --> 00:46:40,039
And I've come to this conclusion after the publication book,

827
00:46:40,920 --> 00:46:45,360
which is when you look around at our society, American society,

828
00:46:45,400 --> 00:46:49,800
Western society in general, American in particular, when you have

829
00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:53,159
over half of your population going on two thirds is

830
00:46:53,159 --> 00:46:55,679
on some sort of prescription drug, and not all of

831
00:46:55,679 --> 00:46:58,920
these are painkillers, but some sort of prescription drug for

832
00:46:59,320 --> 00:47:03,880
dealing with the either the effects or trying to ameliorate obesity,

833
00:47:05,559 --> 00:47:09,159
drinking drugs for dealing with the fact that you're an

834
00:47:09,159 --> 00:47:14,039
ex smoker. You know, all these different drugs are out there,

835
00:47:14,039 --> 00:47:16,079
and sixty percent of Americans are on prescription drugs of

836
00:47:16,159 --> 00:47:22,039
some sort. If they're not seeking relief from the painkillers themselves,

837
00:47:22,119 --> 00:47:26,280
they're seeking relief from other self medications that they are

838
00:47:26,320 --> 00:47:29,760
indulging in. And that could be overeating, that could be sloth,

839
00:47:29,960 --> 00:47:32,760
that could be alcoholism, that could be all of these

840
00:47:32,760 --> 00:47:36,440
different things that you know, people try to do to escape.

841
00:47:38,119 --> 00:47:40,199
When you have six out of ten of your populations

842
00:47:40,199 --> 00:47:43,559
on prescription drugs, it's not those people that are necessarily sick.

843
00:47:43,880 --> 00:47:47,360
It's your society. Those people are trying to they're they're

844
00:47:47,440 --> 00:47:51,280
medicating themselves against the society you've built. And I say that,

845
00:47:51,320 --> 00:47:53,039
and it looks like I've been drinking. This is a virgin,

846
00:47:53,079 --> 00:47:57,440
bloody marry, by the way, So just for the record,

847
00:47:57,440 --> 00:48:00,159
because it sounds like I'm coming off with some puritan. No,

848
00:48:00,679 --> 00:48:03,519
everybody enjoys a good beer once in a while. Everybody

849
00:48:03,639 --> 00:48:07,719
enjoys a small advice. But you know, look, if you

850
00:48:08,119 --> 00:48:11,599
keep account, I've actually, when I've made myself tune into

851
00:48:11,760 --> 00:48:15,760
network television, taken a scratch pad the number of prescription

852
00:48:16,559 --> 00:48:19,880
drug commercials and what they're for, and they're all from

853
00:48:19,960 --> 00:48:23,760
things like obesity or dealing with you know, other problems

854
00:48:23,760 --> 00:48:27,280
that arise from overeating, that arise from all these different

855
00:48:27,320 --> 00:48:29,880
bad behaviors that are escapes from the society that we

856
00:48:29,920 --> 00:48:32,400
live in. So the fundamental fix is not going to

857
00:48:32,400 --> 00:48:35,039
come at the individual addict level. It's going to have

858
00:48:35,119 --> 00:48:37,719
to happen at the societal level. We have to fix

859
00:48:37,760 --> 00:48:39,920
our six society before we do anything else.

860
00:48:40,400 --> 00:48:44,079
Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, mentioning Europe and how Europe doesn't really have

861
00:48:44,239 --> 00:48:48,000
the opioid problem, we do, Well, they needed to destroy Europe,

862
00:48:48,039 --> 00:48:52,079
so they just imported rapists and murders through Yeah, they

863
00:48:52,320 --> 00:48:54,719
just made it a lot worse. And I assume that's

864
00:48:54,760 --> 00:48:58,119
exactly what they're trying to do here as well, you know,

865
00:48:58,559 --> 00:49:02,760
just to add a little insult to injury. Even some

866
00:49:02,800 --> 00:49:09,280
people in our sphere will say, yeah, I mean I

867
00:49:09,320 --> 00:49:12,480
see the targeting, I see what they did. But people

868
00:49:12,559 --> 00:49:16,199
need to take some responsibility for themselves that they allowed

869
00:49:16,199 --> 00:49:17,320
this to happen to them.

870
00:49:17,920 --> 00:49:21,199
Speaker 2: I'm not against that. I don't disagree on the one level,

871
00:49:21,239 --> 00:49:23,719
because you know, the recovery for the addict has to

872
00:49:23,719 --> 00:49:26,400
start with them. They have to realize that they have

873
00:49:26,440 --> 00:49:29,039
to make a change, and there is an amount of

874
00:49:29,159 --> 00:49:33,800
personal responsibility. But what you've got to look at is,

875
00:49:35,320 --> 00:49:39,840
particularly when it comes to opioids, and that's my area specialty,

876
00:49:40,719 --> 00:49:43,599
the majority of people who become addicts did not start

877
00:49:43,639 --> 00:49:47,079
because they were thrill seeking pill poppers who are just

878
00:49:47,159 --> 00:49:49,760
looking to have fun, looking to zone out me in

879
00:49:49,920 --> 00:49:51,599
like we used to talk about the hippies or whatever.

880
00:49:53,639 --> 00:49:55,559
Like I said, they get it from their doctor. They

881
00:49:55,639 --> 00:49:58,199
get it sometimes as early as age sixteen for wisdom

882
00:49:58,239 --> 00:50:03,239
teeth removal. Once you hand somebody something that is so

883
00:50:03,320 --> 00:50:08,119
powerfully addictive, particularly to a developing mind that young, what

884
00:50:08,159 --> 00:50:10,840
do you expects going to happen? And how much responsibility

885
00:50:10,840 --> 00:50:13,400
did they have because they trusted their parents, they trusted

886
00:50:13,400 --> 00:50:16,079
their health care provider to have their best interest to heart.

887
00:50:16,360 --> 00:50:20,519
But they don't, or either the health care provider or

888
00:50:20,519 --> 00:50:23,559
their parent is ignorant and should have should have done

889
00:50:23,559 --> 00:50:28,039
a better job in educating themselves, or they don't care.

890
00:50:28,320 --> 00:50:30,519
And that's the case with too many of these important

891
00:50:30,559 --> 00:50:34,119
Speaking of imports, these important doctors, the pimmals that I

892
00:50:34,199 --> 00:50:37,920
was able to come across, the doctors that would write

893
00:50:37,920 --> 00:50:40,079
these prescriptions, even in the face of the restrictions that

894
00:50:40,239 --> 00:50:44,320
were at the state and federal level. Invariably they were imports.

895
00:50:44,400 --> 00:50:46,480
Invariably they were Indians who had no stake in the

896
00:50:46,480 --> 00:50:50,679
communities they were setting up shop in. And we didn't

897
00:50:50,719 --> 00:50:54,159
experiment because there was this thing like, oh, you know,

898
00:50:54,320 --> 00:50:57,559
obviously we've changed the rules here in Kentucky that you

899
00:50:57,599 --> 00:51:00,440
can't get these prescriptions anymore the way that you used to. Okay,

900
00:51:00,480 --> 00:51:03,079
so well, let's see if we can do that. And

901
00:51:03,440 --> 00:51:05,239
all it did, all that they had done was really

902
00:51:05,239 --> 00:51:08,280
at a step in particularly in the case of Kentucky

903
00:51:08,280 --> 00:51:10,719
at the time that we did the experiment, which was

904
00:51:11,719 --> 00:51:13,840
you could go to a pain management clinic and get

905
00:51:13,880 --> 00:51:16,119
your regular prescriptions, but first you had to have a

906
00:51:16,159 --> 00:51:17,360
referral from your family doctor.

907
00:51:17,960 --> 00:51:18,800
Speaker 1: So it was an.

908
00:51:18,679 --> 00:51:21,960
Speaker 2: Extra you know, assuming you had either whether you had

909
00:51:22,039 --> 00:51:24,280
insurance or not, maybe extra one hundred and fifty out

910
00:51:24,320 --> 00:51:26,840
of pocket one extra visit. Then you're off to the

911
00:51:26,880 --> 00:51:29,559
pain clinic where they're going to get you onto a cycle.

912
00:51:29,599 --> 00:51:32,400
They're going to renew it for three hundred a month.

913
00:51:32,480 --> 00:51:34,360
I think was the you know, it was the monthly

914
00:51:34,400 --> 00:51:37,840
visit fee, and it was cash, and it was like

915
00:51:37,880 --> 00:51:41,079
no insurance necessary. Who do you think that they're catering to?

916
00:51:41,119 --> 00:51:43,480
Who do you think that doctor Gupta is catering to

917
00:51:43,920 --> 00:51:45,639
in this small town in Kentucky.

918
00:51:46,920 --> 00:51:48,840
Speaker 1: One of the quotes I took from the book, it said,

919
00:51:49,320 --> 00:51:52,159
the full cost, the full human cost, is not simply

920
00:51:52,159 --> 00:51:54,880
an accounting of the dead, but includes the impact of

921
00:51:54,920 --> 00:51:57,840
despair and hopelessness that follows in the wake of opiate

922
00:51:58,119 --> 00:52:02,920
opiate addiction and abuse. Now, I mean this is taking.

923
00:52:03,199 --> 00:52:06,840
This is extreme because this is also taking your health,

924
00:52:07,079 --> 00:52:10,679
and it's destroying health, it's destroying lives, it is ending lives.

925
00:52:11,800 --> 00:52:14,920
But I mean, we see this despair and hopelessness in

926
00:52:14,960 --> 00:52:18,840
my opinion. You know, when Joe Biden goes on TV

927
00:52:19,079 --> 00:52:22,760
in front of a red background and basically calls you know,

928
00:52:22,960 --> 00:52:29,719
a significant portion most almost all white, you know, basically terrorists,

929
00:52:29,760 --> 00:52:33,519
people that need semi fascist, people who need to be watched,

930
00:52:33,719 --> 00:52:36,440
you know, looked at people who need you know what

931
00:52:36,599 --> 00:52:40,159
I meant. Paul Gottfried might even invoke the therapeutic state, where

932
00:52:40,360 --> 00:52:44,320
there's something there's something innately wrong with them that needs

933
00:52:44,360 --> 00:52:47,880
to be repaired. People ask about that. I always say,

934
00:52:47,920 --> 00:52:50,440
it's to give us to spare and hopelessness. It's too

935
00:52:50,599 --> 00:52:54,960
when you see these TikTok videos of these kindergarten teachers

936
00:52:55,000 --> 00:52:57,679
talking about wanting to teach anal sex to their gay

937
00:52:57,719 --> 00:53:01,199
anal sex to their kids, to beat us. It's to

938
00:53:01,360 --> 00:53:06,480
give us despair and hopelessness. But you know, all of this,

939
00:53:07,000 --> 00:53:08,760
all of this is and you know, I would say

940
00:53:08,760 --> 00:53:12,400
the same thing about, you know, sending rapists into Sweden

941
00:53:12,880 --> 00:53:17,039
and just basically changing their culture. That women don't even

942
00:53:17,079 --> 00:53:19,320
know what rape is anymore. They don't even know how

943
00:53:19,360 --> 00:53:21,199
to define it. They don't know if they've been raped,

944
00:53:21,239 --> 00:53:23,159
when they've been raped, or.

945
00:53:23,159 --> 00:53:24,760
Speaker 2: They're scared to report it because they don't want to

946
00:53:24,800 --> 00:53:29,440
seem like they're racist or whatnot. Yeah, my friend boresway

947
00:53:29,679 --> 00:53:31,760
going to term for this. It's the humiliation a ritual,

948
00:53:31,840 --> 00:53:34,079
and that's what you see with the TikTok videos and

949
00:53:34,119 --> 00:53:36,559
that sort of thing. I think there was a story

950
00:53:36,639 --> 00:53:38,559
just a couple of weeks ago, and I think it

951
00:53:38,559 --> 00:53:42,039
illustrates it. Think about every reference you see to within

952
00:53:42,079 --> 00:53:46,519
the mainstream media to white people, to white women, to

953
00:53:46,599 --> 00:53:51,119
white people in general, invariably it is a negative. There

954
00:53:51,159 --> 00:53:55,280
is there is no mentioning of white people unless it's

955
00:53:55,280 --> 00:53:59,280
a negative. Even Republicans do this. Their biggest their favorite

956
00:53:59,280 --> 00:54:01,679
attack these days is well, this is the problem, well

957
00:54:01,800 --> 00:54:04,039
white liberals, and that's why we need a coalition of

958
00:54:04,159 --> 00:54:07,800
multicultural working class people. It's all a bunch of crap,

959
00:54:08,400 --> 00:54:11,400
But they're only the only time they ever mentioned white

960
00:54:11,400 --> 00:54:13,880
people as a group that might have, you know, its

961
00:54:13,880 --> 00:54:16,679
own unique identity and its own interests and its own

962
00:54:17,320 --> 00:54:21,360
needs that we expect that the government will meet to protect,

963
00:54:21,480 --> 00:54:25,679
to provide for. That's the whole purpose of government. The

964
00:54:25,760 --> 00:54:28,159
mention of white people about any of these it's always

965
00:54:28,159 --> 00:54:31,320
invariably a negative. It's always morally suspect. If you talk

966
00:54:31,400 --> 00:54:35,880
about white people in any positive way, you are morally suspect,

967
00:54:36,800 --> 00:54:41,400
and that, as much as anything I can think, contributes

968
00:54:41,519 --> 00:54:46,280
to this sense of despair, the sense of hopelessness. I mean,

969
00:54:46,280 --> 00:54:48,719
if we continue down this track, and I'm not trying

970
00:54:48,760 --> 00:54:53,079
to make the grandiose predictions on anything in particular, but

971
00:54:53,079 --> 00:54:55,320
if we continue on the track that we're on, then

972
00:54:55,840 --> 00:54:58,960
we can look at our future by looking at what's

973
00:54:59,039 --> 00:55:03,960
left of the Indian tribes in America living on these

974
00:55:04,000 --> 00:55:06,960
little reservations. And I'm not mean physically, but they live

975
00:55:07,000 --> 00:55:09,760
on these little reservations. They have absolutely no pride left.

976
00:55:10,400 --> 00:55:13,559
What little pride that they get is from grifters coming

977
00:55:13,559 --> 00:55:15,800
in who claim to be Indian and want to set

978
00:55:15,880 --> 00:55:19,000
up a casino, but you know, dealing with addiction, dealing

979
00:55:19,079 --> 00:55:21,760
with just this despair because their culture is gone, and

980
00:55:21,800 --> 00:55:23,480
that's what they would like to see, you white people.

981
00:55:23,880 --> 00:55:25,559
And they want to see that in Europe, they want

982
00:55:25,559 --> 00:55:28,000
to see that in America, and we have to say no,

983
00:55:28,079 --> 00:55:31,000
we have to start fighting back otherwise. I mean, this

984
00:55:31,039 --> 00:55:32,760
is this is about our future, This is about our people,

985
00:55:32,840 --> 00:55:36,239
and we deserve better. They deserve better. We owe it

986
00:55:36,239 --> 00:55:39,440
to our ancestors and we know it to our progeny, and.

987
00:55:39,360 --> 00:55:41,480
Speaker 1: It seems like what they want to kill is they

988
00:55:41,519 --> 00:55:44,679
want to kill that fastian spirit that goes forward and

989
00:55:44,880 --> 00:55:52,280
seeks to conquer, that seeks to overcome. And multiculturalism people

990
00:55:52,320 --> 00:55:55,719
are like, oh, multicultural, what is multicult? Multiculturalism does a

991
00:55:55,760 --> 00:55:58,840
couple of things. First of all, multiculturalism isn't about, you know,

992
00:55:59,159 --> 00:56:03,519
enhancing cir cultures over others. It's basically about destroying all cultures.

993
00:56:03,920 --> 00:56:07,000
Because if you destroy all cultures, then you know, there's

994
00:56:07,880 --> 00:56:11,000
there's nothing, there's no foundation for somebody to rest upon.

995
00:56:12,000 --> 00:56:17,239
Multiculturalism also definitely allows a certain segment of the population

996
00:56:17,400 --> 00:56:23,320
to be able to hide. And then when you start noticing,

997
00:56:24,079 --> 00:56:28,239
to use a term as once you start noticing, it's like, well,

998
00:56:28,239 --> 00:56:30,559
we can't hide any we can't hide anymore. I mean

999
00:56:30,760 --> 00:56:33,719
we have there's twenty different cultures in this country, and

1000
00:56:33,760 --> 00:56:37,079
holy crap, why are they seeing only ours? I mean

1001
00:56:37,119 --> 00:56:40,079
because two percent of the population and you know, half

1002
00:56:40,119 --> 00:56:45,280
of the world's billionaires and controlled pretty much every single industry,

1003
00:56:46,199 --> 00:56:52,000
especially anyone that helps to create culture. And eventually you're

1004
00:56:52,039 --> 00:56:54,960
going to start someone's going to start noticing.

1005
00:56:56,920 --> 00:56:59,119
Speaker 2: And that's the biggest fear that they have, and that's

1006
00:56:59,199 --> 00:57:03,400
why bringing awareness to this problem, waking up a big

1007
00:57:04,000 --> 00:57:06,960
using the expression but the expression big normy, waking them

1008
00:57:07,039 --> 00:57:10,639
up to what's going on. Like you know the old saying,

1009
00:57:10,639 --> 00:57:14,559
if they if these people were painted blue, everyone would notice. Hell,

1010
00:57:14,599 --> 00:57:17,440
if they were just Asian, everyone would notice exactly who

1011
00:57:17,480 --> 00:57:19,800
we're talking about. We all know who we're talking about.

1012
00:57:21,159 --> 00:57:23,800
And it's it's by design, like you said, it's it's

1013
00:57:23,840 --> 00:57:26,960
it's you know, throw all the paints into one big bucket,

1014
00:57:27,159 --> 00:57:30,840
and then you have this sort of lower IQ mix,

1015
00:57:30,960 --> 00:57:34,800
mystery meat kind of population that pretty compliant, doesn't have

1016
00:57:34,840 --> 00:57:37,679
that spirit to overcome. And in fact, you know, you

1017
00:57:37,719 --> 00:57:41,480
even demonize the idea of the Faustian spirit as stealing.

1018
00:57:41,840 --> 00:57:45,440
You know, we didn't conquer, we didn't explore, we didn't pioneer,

1019
00:57:45,760 --> 00:57:48,280
We stole all this, we stole this land and that

1020
00:57:48,400 --> 00:57:52,800
sort of thing. And you may morally suspect any defense

1021
00:57:52,840 --> 00:57:57,360
of yourself. And I mean, in a way if you

1022
00:57:57,440 --> 00:58:00,199
could completely remove yourself from a moral judgment, but you

1023
00:58:00,199 --> 00:58:04,960
could say, well, that is a unique way and almost

1024
00:58:04,960 --> 00:58:07,079
an admirable way that you conquered in other people. You

1025
00:58:07,239 --> 00:58:09,719
made them once commit suicide, you made them want to

1026
00:58:09,760 --> 00:58:14,039
just fade off into nothingness. But it's horror, horrifying to

1027
00:58:14,199 --> 00:58:17,280
anybody with the moral center. And that's that's what's going on.

1028
00:58:17,719 --> 00:58:21,199
And multiculturalism. You know, obviously my only interest is uh

1029
00:58:21,480 --> 00:58:26,360
for myself, is for my people, for white people. Multiculturism

1030
00:58:26,360 --> 00:58:29,280
destroys that. But I actually do recognize that multiculturalism destroys

1031
00:58:29,320 --> 00:58:32,880
other cultures. It destroys other cultures that deserve to have

1032
00:58:32,880 --> 00:58:35,320
a right to be themselves, to be who they are,

1033
00:58:35,760 --> 00:58:38,239
and they just need to do that in their own countries,

1034
00:58:38,239 --> 00:58:41,239
in their own regions. I have no problem with that.

1035
00:58:42,079 --> 00:58:45,000
We get painted with so many negative stereotypes just because

1036
00:58:45,039 --> 00:58:47,159
we say I want to stand up for white people,

1037
00:58:47,199 --> 00:58:52,199
I want to stand up for white interests. They they

1038
00:58:52,199 --> 00:58:54,679
seem to want to graft onto that automatically. It's some

1039
00:58:54,719 --> 00:58:57,480
sort of superiority, some sort of anger, some sort of

1040
00:58:57,639 --> 00:59:00,639
need to destroy. It's like, no, absolutely not. I just

1041
00:59:00,639 --> 00:59:03,079
want what's best for my people. And actually, if those

1042
00:59:03,119 --> 00:59:06,400
people over there also flourish, then we can have an exchange,

1043
00:59:06,440 --> 00:59:08,480
we can trade, we can disit each other. But then

1044
00:59:08,480 --> 00:59:11,800
we go home. You know, we have the recipes. You

1045
00:59:11,840 --> 00:59:13,880
can stay over there, We'll stay over here. We won't

1046
00:59:13,920 --> 00:59:16,400
come visit. We might exchange, but there's no reason for

1047
00:59:16,440 --> 00:59:19,519
this idea that everything's got to be top down destruction

1048
00:59:19,599 --> 00:59:22,440
and conquer that's just how they demonize the idea of

1049
00:59:22,559 --> 00:59:24,039
white people standing up for themselves.

1050
00:59:25,239 --> 00:59:27,760
Speaker 1: Well, let's end it right there before we get in

1051
00:59:27,840 --> 00:59:28,559
any more trouble.

1052
00:59:28,679 --> 00:59:30,840
Speaker 2: Appreciate that you having me on, Peter, and it was

1053
00:59:30,840 --> 00:59:51,559
a great hour. Thank you. All right,