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Speaker 1: Wade Keller Pro Wrestling post show.
Speaker 2: It's time to talk this week's WWE Friday Night SmackDown.
Speaker 1: Our Derek had finally happened, or it's happening Kevin owens
Speaker 1: against Cmpunk. In the modern WWE era, it's not a
Speaker 1: surprise to see two babyfaces talking trash to each other
Speaker 1: with gray hair, And that's what we got again tonight.
Speaker 1: I'm not complaining. I'm just pointing out another two babyfaces
Speaker 1: where the fans are like, we like you, we like you,
Speaker 1: and then by the end you're like, oh, you made
Speaker 1: some good points. Maybe Punk is a phony who was
Speaker 1: a nice beep behind the scenes, and blah blah blah
Speaker 1: and all that, But honestly, I mean if we're gonna
Speaker 1: have an if we're gonna have an exception, and that's
Speaker 1: kind of been the case. Like these are compelling matchups
Speaker 1: between babyfaces, and you know, Kevin Owens is great. He
Speaker 1: was great aunts punk and he was he and Sammy
Speaker 1: were magic again. So you know, for a post Summer
Speaker 1: Slam kind of fresh set of circumstances, this is a
Speaker 1: good one. Give me your thoughts, Derek.
Speaker 2: I'll start positive and then i'll hit the negative, but
Speaker 2: I think you express both points. The positive is it's fresh,
Speaker 2: it's novel. We've never seen him wrestle, and I think
Speaker 2: it will be interesting not only to see them in
Speaker 2: the ring square off, but just tonight there is an
Speaker 2: energy when they were looking at each other, they're My
Speaker 2: favorite part of the promo is actually before they've talked
Speaker 2: on the mics, when they were just looking at each
Speaker 2: other and talking like it felt tense. It felt tense,
Speaker 2: and there probably is some some underlying tension there.
Speaker 1: He counts friends with the bucks in you know, that's like.
Speaker 2: You bring out good stuff if you can remain professional,
Speaker 2: which I think both guys are being or committed to do,
Speaker 2: and then it will be fresh in the ring as well.
Speaker 2: The negative is once again, as you mentioned, it is
Speaker 2: forcing fans to, at least some extent, to pick aside
Speaker 2: who they agree with more or who they agree with
Speaker 2: the most.
Speaker 1: Did you it didn't seem like Punk had a lot
Speaker 1: of material for Ko. It was more Ko saying things
Speaker 1: about Punk that is kind of a theme. I'll even
Speaker 1: throw up Chris Rucker's comment here in the chat. It's
Speaker 1: funny every restler Punk has feuded with since returning, even
Speaker 1: in AW has a beef with him for being a
Speaker 1: piece of shit to them. I mean, yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: I mean there, you know, it's like if everybody, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, what's the saying about if everybody you meet
Speaker 1: all day as an asshole, you might beat the asshole,
Speaker 1: you know.
Speaker 3: I mean.
Speaker 1: And so, I mean I thought there were some biting
Speaker 1: comments from Ko, but I also thought it didn't enter
Speaker 1: any like meta nonsense like you know, like I mean,
Speaker 1: and so like Seth set the bar for that, Like,
Speaker 1: no one's gotten to that level where it's just, you know,
Speaker 1: there's a rebellion. And I do think there's a bit
Speaker 1: of a course correction. I think that would be has realized, Yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: we're not going to do that. We're we're going to
Speaker 1: do callbacks to indie seeing gripes Punk. You should wear
Speaker 1: a T shirt when you wrestle, Kevin Owens, like, that's
Speaker 1: not in w Cannon, but there is, like people can
Speaker 1: find out online. And as Cody Road says, and I
Speaker 1: was quote them, you shouldn't each older content to understand
Speaker 1: what's happening on the main show. And I get that,
Speaker 1: but like you said, you could tell there's tension here
Speaker 1: and they introduced enough that said okay, Punk paved the way,
Speaker 1: and Kevin Owens says, I appreciate it, and Punk did
Speaker 1: not need to say. I mean self there said they
Speaker 1: called me skinny fat, they meaning Paula Back, just to
Speaker 1: be clear. I mean I could have been others, but
Speaker 1: Paula Back. And then he's like, and you So they
Speaker 1: didn't want me, But I managed to get here because
Speaker 1: I called myself the best in the world and I
Speaker 1: had the bravado and the arrogance at the confidence to
Speaker 1: make it happen. And you're here because of that. Do
Speaker 1: you think they were waiting around for you? And then
Speaker 1: he looks at his gut, like Kevin Owen's gut, and like,
Speaker 1: look at you. If you think Skinny Fat wasn't gonna
Speaker 1: get a contract. Bear gut, bear gut McGee isn't gonna
Speaker 1: get one either. He didn't say that, I said it,
Speaker 1: sorry so, but yeah, I mean the off mic stuff
Speaker 1: I didn't pick up on, so I'm not quite sure
Speaker 1: what they said. I tried to replain, I couldn't pick
Speaker 1: up on it. And the off mic stuff can seem
Speaker 1: a little performative or you know, like it's the new work. Oh,
Speaker 1: they're really mad at each other and they don't want
Speaker 1: us to hear what they're saying, and it's a little
Speaker 1: bit of an eye roll. But I mean visually, the
Speaker 1: optics of it worked. And I'm with you, Derek. I
Speaker 1: think this feels, you know, just my phrase of the summer,
Speaker 1: let us buy in. And I felt that this segment
Speaker 1: allowed us to without taking us out of the like
Speaker 1: breaking down the fourth wall.
Speaker 2: And as well as not only did they not like
Speaker 2: dive into the meta, they still made it about winning
Speaker 2: the championship is the most important thing.
Speaker 1: Here, yep.
Speaker 2: And I don't mind the meta as long as as
Speaker 2: at the end of the day, we're talking about the
Speaker 2: importance of winning and becoming the champion, because that is
Speaker 2: the goal, and that's why we watch the matches for clarity.
Speaker 1: When you when I'm against meta, I'm against meta. When
Speaker 1: it says they made you world champion because you're Marketaville
Speaker 1: and you look the part for on a poster better
Speaker 1: yemen that in that, I'm never okay with. I don't
Speaker 1: think ever on a wrestling show should you talk about
Speaker 1: the result of a match is determined by somebody else.
Speaker 1: You should't allude to that there, especially because the easy fixes.
Speaker 1: You got more opportunities than you deserved because you look
Speaker 1: good on posters. Easy way to fix it. So don't
Speaker 1: say you were made champion because of XYZ. Say you
Speaker 1: had more opportunities to win the championship and they look
Speaker 1: the other way when when they went with me. That
Speaker 1: stuff works and these two are smart. I mean, say
Speaker 1: what you will about what Chao say. Dude, you must
Speaker 1: be so lowly on the pedestal you put yourself on
Speaker 1: and good line, good line, yep, yep, yep. I mean
Speaker 1: Kao's going to have them. And I wish money in
Speaker 1: the bank was three months away. I don't well, maybe
Speaker 1: i'd be sick of it, maybe less, it's more, but yeah,
Speaker 1: so just I want to be clear. The meta that
Speaker 1: I'm against is not references to the indie scene. The
Speaker 1: meta when I when I am making references and maybe
Speaker 1: I should have a better term and not overuse that.
Speaker 1: It's when you introduce into the narrative the idea that
Speaker 1: championship matches are not determined based on a real fight
Speaker 1: in the ring. That's a story they're telling. They should
Speaker 1: stick to it and then fans can buy into that
Speaker 1: world that they create. And it's so cheap and lame
Speaker 1: and eye rolling to try to go, well, I'm going
Speaker 1: to do what see I'm pump did in a way
Speaker 1: with a pipe bomb, and I'm going to break the
Speaker 1: fourth wall and talk about how fake it is to
Speaker 1: score points with you. And it's like, stop that that's
Speaker 1: an utter not.
Speaker 2: Just a blanket statement I'll make. Is anything that you
Speaker 2: say that undermines the competition that occurs in the ring
Speaker 2: is a net negative in allowing me to buy in
Speaker 2: to pro wrestling, and I will always push back against it.
Speaker 1: Exactly yep. So what do they Well, first of all,
Speaker 1: anything else stand out in the promo exchange for you?
Speaker 1: There's anything else you want to bring up that that
Speaker 1: you liked or didn't like in this. I know you
Speaker 1: sayt're gona talk about the good and the bad and
Speaker 1: anything else you want to add here.
Speaker 2: I like that Kevin Owen's got the final line. I
Speaker 2: like you know, and it was it was like a
Speaker 2: biting comment and it led to the shove and then
Speaker 2: I also I liked that they didn't brawl. It almost
Speaker 2: was more tense and more aggressive because it felt it
Speaker 2: feels more real when guys aren't throwing work punches at
Speaker 2: each other on day one, and I this was like
Speaker 2: an opening, like this is the opening shots, and then
Speaker 2: you can allow things to either heat up or cool down,
Speaker 2: leading to their first encounter, which I think they said
Speaker 2: was at the end of the month, and then going forward.
Speaker 2: I wouldn't mind. And they haven't done this for a while,
Speaker 2: so I think it would feel fresh where if they
Speaker 2: had more dominant hit bills, you could have CM Punk
Speaker 2: and Kevin Owens be partners of convenience where they earn
Speaker 2: each other's respect and then fight off heels. And I
Speaker 2: think that makes both of them better baby faces and
Speaker 2: tell the more well rounded stories that leaves them in
Speaker 2: a better place.
Speaker 1: Yep, all right, let's pause and introduce ourselves briefly here,
Speaker 1: and then we'll throw up a couple more check comments,
Speaker 1: and then we'll get to Sean and Durrell, who are
Speaker 1: on hold to join us as callers on the show.
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Speaker 1: This is the way Keller Pro Wrestling Post Show for Friday,
Speaker 1: August seventh, twenty twenty six. I'm Way Keller, host of
Speaker 1: the show, editor, publisher and founder of the Pro Wrestling
Speaker 1: Torch weekly newsletter and the website pw torch dot com.
Speaker 1: I also host the Wea Keller podcast. In addition to
Speaker 1: this way Keller post shows, I also have dogs who
Speaker 1: sometimes marked during podcasts.
Speaker 4: Here.
Speaker 2: These are my parents' dogs. I'm watching their in house.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, no problem. That's the show. And search for
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Speaker 1: they are more at trud different podcast format. Rich Fan
Speaker 1: and I had a blast on the flake Ship earlier
Speaker 1: this week, going in depth on a variety of topics
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Speaker 1: If you want to join us and talk about being
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Speaker 1: all right, join us live in the chat, you watching
Speaker 1: us on YouTube, Email us at weakelor Posho at gmail
Speaker 1: dot com if you'd rather do that. And I'll now
Speaker 1: introduce my coast Derek Hubbard. He's a PW Torch contributor.
Speaker 1: He is watching his parents' dogs and we're great. It's
Speaker 1: great to have him in the Coast chair again. Derek.
Speaker 2: Welcome, wait, thanks for having me. I enjoyed talking and
Speaker 2: pro wrestling. I don't get to do it enough. Most
Speaker 2: of the time I just watch by myself, so having
Speaker 2: someone to talk to you about it is definitely different
Speaker 2: for me. Most of the time, I'm just having dialogue
Speaker 2: with myself about the stuff I like or hate. So
Speaker 2: it's good.
Speaker 1: Love it, love it. You're welcome and appreciate and enjoy
Speaker 1: your analysis in our conversations as a caller, and now
Speaker 1: more long form, tell people by the way about you
Speaker 1: joining the PW Torch Team, and the columns that you
Speaker 1: that you write, the theme and also the latest one
Speaker 1: that you just put up.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So I write an article weekly called Then, Now, and Forever,
Speaker 2: where I choose a theme that hopefully is somewhat relevant
Speaker 2: to what's happening in wrestling today and then show examples
Speaker 2: of that scene from back in the day, something recent
Speaker 2: and probably the best example of it. So the one
Speaker 2: I did this week was about Summer Slam show stealers,
Speaker 2: those matches in Summer Slam's history that were the matches
Speaker 2: that everyone was talking about the night of and the
Speaker 2: night after the event was over.
Speaker 1: Awesome, All right, Well, I said, we'd include some check comments.
Speaker 1: So let's see by the way, just so people know,
Speaker 1: my browsers reframing slowly, so if I'm trying to I
Speaker 1: don't know if it's my am I sounding good, is
Speaker 1: my picture good? Or is it kind of glitchy.
Speaker 2: There was a little glitchy at the beginning, but I
Speaker 2: haven't noticed anything since.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm switching. I switch Wi Fi like a week.
Speaker 2: And now it just kicked them off. So it might
Speaker 2: just be me talking about pro wrestling. So maybe I'll
Speaker 2: look at some of the maybe I'll look at I'm
Speaker 2: of the channels wrestling. So it looks like Mark thinks
Speaker 2: that Ko has a chance of taking the strap Toronto.
Speaker 2: Isn't a bad choice. I would say that seems a
Speaker 2: little bit early for his journey, but I think it
Speaker 2: would definitely appease the live crowd, so it would be
Speaker 2: excited for then. The fact that he's in the title
Speaker 2: picture right off the bat, I think is promising for him,
Speaker 2: especially given the fact that given how long he's been
Speaker 2: in pro wrestling, we don't know how many years Ko
Speaker 2: has left. So as for your comment, Mark, if Kao
Speaker 2: was to win, I would be satisfied but somewhat surprised.
Speaker 2: I would say they're interested in hearing my thoughts on
Speaker 2: Jade's ring performance tonight. I'm not gonna blame all on Jade.
Speaker 2: I thought the match was shaky at best. The worst
Speaker 2: part of the match was the finish. The last two
Speaker 2: spots they hit were botched, and I think if they
Speaker 2: would have stuck the landing, I would have said it
Speaker 2: was passable. But because they didn't, I think it left
Speaker 2: people with a bad taste in their mouth, even if
Speaker 2: they got a quite exciting debut from Tatum Pasley, who
Speaker 2: if you watch your journey on NXT, you're probably like
Speaker 2: me where you're excited to see what she does, and
Speaker 2: it was quite promising that she was introduced at the
Speaker 2: end of the show in a top level main event.
Speaker 2: So for Tatum, I hope that that's a good sign
Speaker 2: for things to come. She's definitely a quirky, interesting character who.
Speaker 2: If you've watched NXT, it's one of those exciting stories
Speaker 2: where you've seen her progress and get better from year
Speaker 2: to year, where now that she's on the main roster,
Speaker 2: if you've been watching her journey, you probably feel like
Speaker 2: I feel, which is she's ready. Let's push play and
Speaker 2: see where she goes. So I'm excited for Tatum, and
Speaker 2: it seems like a lot of you guys are as well.
Speaker 2: Adam kitt agrees the main event was sloppy.
Speaker 1: Thanks Seric for taking over as my my technical issues
Speaker 1: whatever they were kicked in go ahead. Finished with that.
Speaker 2: I didn't mean to well, there was some comments about
Speaker 2: the main events they mentioned. The sloppiness of it definitely apparent,
Speaker 2: and I know Jade will take the burden of the
Speaker 2: blame for it, but I won't lie. A lot of
Speaker 2: times Charlotte looks very shaky to me as well. It
Speaker 2: almost feels like she doesn't have her feet under her anymore,
Speaker 2: and a lot of times she lacks confidence. I think
Speaker 2: if they would have hit those last two spots after
Speaker 2: Tatum's debut, it would have been a passable match. But
Speaker 2: the fact that they didn't stick the landing, I think
Speaker 2: leaves a bad taste in people's mouths.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yep, all right, so let's throw some comments up
Speaker 1: on punk Ko and comment on those again if I
Speaker 1: can get my browser to cooperate. Durrell says it was
Speaker 1: good they started. There's such an annoying like here apologized
Speaker 1: to listen for that with my issues here hold with me.
Speaker 1: Is okay? Now things seem to be rolling here. Sean
Speaker 1: Push just says yeah, Kao has not been likable as
Speaker 1: a character for most of his run. I actually i'll
Speaker 1: throw to you, Derek on that. I don't think we
Speaker 1: kind of covered like, did you do you think there's
Speaker 1: a desire to steer us one way or the other
Speaker 1: in how that they are presenting this so far? Or
Speaker 1: is this just a pick them? You guys go give
Speaker 1: it your best shot. Kao says bring it. Punk says
Speaker 1: bring it. We'll let the fans decide. I'm confident I
Speaker 1: can hold my own and and there's no like and
Speaker 1: I'm not, by the way, I am in favor of
Speaker 1: promoters having an idea who they want fans to cheer
Speaker 1: it boo in most cases, but you know, sometimes you
Speaker 1: just don't. What do you think is happening here?
Speaker 2: My initial thought was a pick them, But then when
Speaker 2: I think of how the segment played out, and I
Speaker 2: know how they're does the fact that they gave Kevin
Speaker 2: Owens the last line, I think they want they were
Speaker 2: asking the fans more to give him the ending favorable response, which,
Speaker 2: if anything was to steer somebody one way. It would
Speaker 2: be to steer on Owen's side because he got the
Speaker 2: last line.
Speaker 1: Do you how do you think the crowd will respond?
Speaker 1: Punk's been around more, He's been a stand up guy,
Speaker 1: you know. I mean, he says, you know, I'm not
Speaker 1: happy Cody, and we'll talk about Cody and Punk. Obviously.
Speaker 1: That's another big segment here, followed to the summer slam
Speaker 1: matsh but Punk was a stand up gual. He goes, Cody,
Speaker 1: I'm mad. I'm not as mad as you, but I'm
Speaker 1: mad at at Randy Orton interfering. He said something along
Speaker 1: those lines on the Post show too, So I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, Punk is not like saying outlandish things, are
Speaker 1: acting selfish or anything like that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think also Sam Punk's one of those
Speaker 2: teflon characters where his qualities that as a human you
Speaker 2: would say are vice are some of the reasons that
Speaker 2: people like him. Like if I call Seampunk a prick
Speaker 2: I think that's the people who are the most ardent
Speaker 2: fans of CM Punk. His prickliness is what they like
Speaker 2: about it.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Well, it's like criticizing for something, criticizing somebody for something
Speaker 2: to take pride in, and they kind of just own it.
Speaker 2: So as long as he doesn't become too defensive, I
Speaker 2: think the fans who support him that is the reason
Speaker 2: they support him. And Kevin Owens is kind of the same,
Speaker 2: Like he's got this toxic sarcasm that when you see
Speaker 2: a toxic sarcasm, if it's played off against a babyface
Speaker 2: that people like a lot, it's healish that even when
Speaker 2: it's helish, you're like, well that was a good line.
Speaker 2: Well that was a good comeback. And it's a likable
Speaker 2: quality because it's a defining characteristic that makes him.
Speaker 1: Who he is and Keo is what he's just you
Speaker 1: shouldn't being entertaining, shouldn't like be the be all end
Speaker 1: on in terms where you get sheirt or booed. But
Speaker 1: there is something so self confident, matter of fact and
Speaker 1: and and distinct about Kevin owens delivery that it makes him,
Speaker 1: you know, somebody who you want to you have you
Speaker 1: want to be sympathetic to whatever argument he's making when
Speaker 1: he makes it, because he is there is a quick wit,
Speaker 1: just a matter of fact, dry delivery to to what
Speaker 1: he does. And and so yeah, I mean it's it's
Speaker 1: it's fascinating watching these two go at it. Derek Mitchell says,
Speaker 1: Punk and Kao, we're like a first round boxing match
Speaker 1: for both boxers are just feeling each other out. I
Speaker 1: think that's a really good analogy, dere I appreciate that.
Speaker 1: And and and we'll get we'll get more.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 1: Derek Mitchell also says, I find myself rooting for Ko
Speaker 1: in this title chase, but ultimately no, Kevin Owens won't
Speaker 1: win the w W title from Punk. Do we know that?
Speaker 2: The fact that Sammy Zaine won the title out of nowhere,
Speaker 2: the fact that they do that every now every so
Speaker 2: often allows for those possibilities to still be on the table,
Speaker 2: which makes you invested in the match is even if
Speaker 2: you deem it to be unlikely.
Speaker 1: Hm.
Speaker 2: So, I think it's smart to have those out of
Speaker 2: the blue changes every now and then because it keeps
Speaker 2: us on our edge, in the edge of our seats,
Speaker 2: wondering could it happened this time? And that's how I
Speaker 2: feel about Ko winning the championship. It's a great feel
Speaker 2: good story. And if it happened in Toronto, you know
Speaker 2: that that would be that would be an astounding pop
Speaker 2: and a huge feel good story for a lot of
Speaker 2: the long term fans of Kevin Owens, who the guy
Speaker 2: who was almost lost his wrestling career and came out
Speaker 2: back after seventeen months. I mean, that's a story that
Speaker 2: even the most jaded fan would cheer for, right.
Speaker 1: Yep yep. Another comment from Derek, and then we'll go
Speaker 1: on to some other people's comments. It's a really good
Speaker 1: forward to this. From Kale's perspective, it's easy to see
Speaker 1: why he'd resent Punk as he comes across his condescending
Speaker 1: and full of himself, much like Aaron Rodgers and hard
Speaker 1: to root for. I've heard Aaron Rodgers comparison with see
Speaker 1: on Punk before. I I don't think it's entirely wrong.
Speaker 1: I think they're different people, and I don't think they
Speaker 1: go to the ballot box with the same issues in mind,
Speaker 1: for instance, But you know, I get it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, their opinion they're they're stubbornly. Their opinions are there's
Speaker 2: a stubbornness to how they see themselves and see the
Speaker 2: world that's probably at odds with a lot of other people.
Speaker 2: And they're not willing to change even if they say
Speaker 2: they are.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And and like as I said, with Punk, I
Speaker 1: think there's so many times he's been right, and like,
Speaker 1: I think he's right about most things in wrestling, and
Speaker 1: otherwise like not all. I mean, I obviously I don't.
Speaker 1: But by the time he's done explaining how right he
Speaker 1: is and how foolish you are not to see things
Speaker 1: exactly as he sees them, you resent him being right.
Speaker 1: And that happens when he tries to get things to
Speaker 1: change behind the scenes in a w or WWE we
Speaker 1: see it. There's something about his delivery that comes across
Speaker 1: as you're right. But now, just despite you, I'm going
Speaker 1: to go against my own beliefs because you piss me off,
Speaker 1: you know, because you're you're you're you're being a punk.
Speaker 2: And I think most people in their lives, whether it's
Speaker 2: a coworker or a parent when you're younger, has had
Speaker 2: that experience. Where is that somebody who you just want
Speaker 2: them to be wrong you It doesn't even matter if
Speaker 2: you lose, because they're wrong.
Speaker 1: You just want them to be wrong exactly. Yep, yep uh.
Speaker 1: Vinnie Glakin says, I think Kao's the latest to call
Speaker 1: Punk out for being a thin skinned fraud. Everybody has
Speaker 1: their like summary of of Kao's characterization of Punk here.
Speaker 2: But it's all accurate.
Speaker 1: Yes, I mean Punk has been thin skinned. I don't
Speaker 1: want this to turn into a whole psychoanalysis of Punk,
Speaker 1: but I mean that, you know it is. It's right,
Speaker 1: it's here tonight on SmackDown. I mean, we're not like
Speaker 1: out of know, we're bringing it up. That is, That
Speaker 1: is how Punk's being portrayed. I don't know, you know,
Speaker 1: you wonder. I know this is sort of parandetical to this,
Speaker 1: but how much more popular and how much more of
Speaker 1: a draw would Punk be if he didn't spend every
Speaker 1: feud having wrestlers who people respect and like or are
Speaker 1: just really articulate and persuasive. Make a case that maybe
Speaker 1: you're worshiping a Punk is ignoring a lot of things
Speaker 1: that if you knew him a little better, you wouldn't
Speaker 1: like him so much.
Speaker 2: It might it might kind of start erasing some of
Speaker 2: his authenticity though, because once again, I think, like the
Speaker 2: things that I see in him that are our vice
Speaker 2: from a human perspective are some of the reasons that
Speaker 2: people like him unapologetically.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean there, and he owned it tonight, you know,
Speaker 1: I mean he did say that his it was in
Speaker 1: the in the storyline of his character, but saying I'm
Speaker 1: the best in the world might great on people, might
Speaker 1: rub people the wrong way. But that's that is that
Speaker 1: arrogance is what got me here with my skinny, fat body,
Speaker 1: you know. I mean, that's what got me into a
Speaker 1: company that hired people who look different than me. Mister
Speaker 1: Rock City eighty six, Welcome to the chat. He says,
Speaker 1: I need to see Ko beat Punk. He deserves another
Speaker 1: tut of run after all the amazing work he has
Speaker 1: done this past decade. Yeah, I mean, I don't want
Speaker 1: to out title shots because someone deserves it because they
Speaker 1: worked hard. I think that you should be world champion
Speaker 1: because it's the best story that they can tell of
Speaker 1: all options. When you start giving it out like gold
Speaker 1: watches or because someone was a good a good employee
Speaker 1: or it's been a long time, I don't that is
Speaker 1: it that that will help break a tie? Like if
Speaker 1: you're not sure, you know, I should We showed me
Speaker 1: while this guy's been X y Z, let's do it.
Speaker 1: If somebody has been the opposite, then you might not
Speaker 1: do it.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 1: That said, I'm not I'm not against it, but and
Speaker 1: I'm not even against hot potato with title belts. Derek.
Speaker 1: You know, like I'm every once in a while, I
Speaker 1: kind of like the idea that in a eight month
Speaker 1: period or fourteen month period the title changes six times
Speaker 1: and then have someone to hold it for a year
Speaker 1: and a half or two years. You know that that
Speaker 1: cadence is I think makes keeps you on edge a
Speaker 1: little bit. So it's like having your secondary moves win
Speaker 1: a match every semi regularly. H Yeah, so you don't
Speaker 1: just got what wasn't as so he's gonna kick out.
Speaker 1: There's things you do just to keep people on edge.
Speaker 1: So I'm not against Ko. And then we've got Sammy
Speaker 1: in the mix, and their interaction was great, so you
Speaker 1: could have Ko beat Punk and then Sammy got a
Speaker 1: shot win or not, and then you got Cody waiting
Speaker 1: in the wings, and who knows what happens with Randy Orton.
Speaker 2: So and I'm not like you mentioned, follow the story
Speaker 2: if it's the if it's the best story to tell
Speaker 2: at the time. I'm also a guy who says followed
Speaker 2: the momentum, where if that story has momentum and you
Speaker 2: can feel it building from week to week, and even
Speaker 2: if it's not in your plans, that's sometimes where you're like,
Speaker 2: screw the plan. We got to play the hot hand,
Speaker 2: and and I'm I'm for that sometimes not always time,
Speaker 2: but sometimes yep.
Speaker 1: I don't think Titus O'Neill should have been out to
Speaker 1: be champion, but I think when there was that little
Speaker 1: slever of time, when when the crowd is really really
Speaker 1: into him, they could have gotten more out of them. Yes,
Speaker 1: but they told themselves, well, he's got two left feet
Speaker 1: and he's you know, it doesn't take whatever all the
Speaker 1: I don't want like. They had their criticisms of him,
Speaker 1: and it came over time. We kind of said, Okay,
Speaker 1: you're not a guy who want to build around, but yeah,
Speaker 1: sometimes you just go for it. Now we're in the
Speaker 1: danaus In phase where they've overdone it, you know.
Speaker 2: And and but never on the show tonight, though I know, yes,
Speaker 2: in fact, I don't think there was any frivolous comedic
Speaker 2: segment tonight at all.
Speaker 1: No, there was our truth thought in at Doom, the
Speaker 1: Rotors and Hocket Animal are three teams.
Speaker 2: But I laughed at that though.
Speaker 1: I'm just sometimes some weeks ar truths better than others.
Speaker 1: But we had every week. Archer says something in Priest
Speaker 1: corrects and we still had that. So okay, I.
Speaker 2: Like Priest that dynamic though, Priest playing the straight man
Speaker 2: who's not mean to truth per se but does like
Speaker 2: correct him. And he's like your friend who's annoying as
Speaker 2: all hell, but you keep him around because it's hard
Speaker 2: for you to admit that you're amused by him as well.
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, his exasperation and instant forgiveness is his is
Speaker 1: a trait with see Weekly.
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Speaker 5: great matches and shows from around the world, be it
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Speaker 1: Mark Bisquetti says punk Ko have their own versions of
Speaker 1: the realist guy in the room characters. They didn't feel
Speaker 1: like they tore each other down so much as making
Speaker 1: me feel like I'm a fly on the wall of
Speaker 1: a heated moment. I think that's fair. I think that's
Speaker 1: what they're going for. Yep too, Yep, I felt it.
Speaker 2: That was that was the the tense atmosphere that was
Speaker 2: created from the start.
Speaker 1: Yep. There's a comment along those lines here that I
Speaker 1: will scroll to if I can. Well, um, I'll get
Speaker 1: to it. When I get to it, I will not
Speaker 1: go out to order here. JF. Pollard says punk and
Speaker 1: Owens are two of the few in the industry who
Speaker 1: can make it feel real and personal. Sean Plickeda says, yeah,
Speaker 1: they need to let it simmer. I love Punk, saying
Speaker 1: you can handle it without fighting. Mark Bisketti says Punk
Speaker 1: look to all this to do something before it got physical.
Speaker 1: It was subtle, but it added a nice touch interesting
Speaker 1: standard Vase said, Punk Owens was absolutely fantastic. One of
Speaker 1: the best promos I've seen in a year. Uh Pilder
Speaker 1: Repeat says, I agreed. I think the best part about
Speaker 1: Punk's promo is making the title mean the most. Yeah, um,
Speaker 1: all right, No, I had something else highly here though,
Speaker 1: oh here, here, Here's what I was looking for. Vinet said,
Speaker 1: I liked the little subtlety of trying to hear Punk
Speaker 1: and Kao trash talk without Mike's in the beginning. Anytime
Speaker 1: Derek you can get someone to lean into the soundbar
Speaker 1: because they want to hear what's being said, that's a win.
Speaker 1: I mean that means, you know, there's a lot of
Speaker 1: shouting and you kind of can tune it out or whatever.
Speaker 1: It feels performative. And but like if you're leaning in
Speaker 1: to try to pick up on what Russells are saying,
Speaker 1: you care and it means you're, yeah, you're you're you're
Speaker 1: buying into it, all right. Sue let's see. I know
Speaker 1: we've got some more comments here. Standobation says Punk and
Speaker 1: ducts himself as a consummate professional on camera, so the
Speaker 1: repeated jabs at his personal flows in real life began
Speaker 1: to feel less authentic the longer viewers see him as
Speaker 1: a professional on TV. Interesting, So he is on good
Speaker 1: behavior on TV except that one week a few months
Speaker 1: ago where he was mad at somebody online and he
Speaker 1: was just in a mood and he was just raging
Speaker 1: on TV and I asked around and I was like,
Speaker 1: I heard, oh, yeah, he was really mad at somebody
Speaker 1: in social media, and that's where that that comment came from.
Speaker 1: And a couple a few weeks ago he said something
Speaker 1: about some you know online people have things to say
Speaker 1: about him. So everyone's while it slips through that like
Speaker 1: it feels like it if with everything that's said just
Speaker 1: in Cannon and WWE, it feels like it takes a
Speaker 1: lot of will power for Punk to beat the professional,
Speaker 1: level headed, plane spoken, calm guy that he is the
Speaker 1: best majority of the time on TV. But there's something
Speaker 1: to what standard Debation says in the chat, which is
Speaker 1: is it gonna start to ring hollow when people go, oh,
Speaker 1: you're a jerk when they don't really see a lot
Speaker 1: of that. I mean, there's a footage of him in
Speaker 1: the elevator lobby and you know, years and years ago
Speaker 1: with a fan and the crowd, and what happened with
Speaker 1: that press conference in AW I mean, there's plenty four
Speaker 1: ice to see. But on WTV, I mean he is
Speaker 1: he gets a you know, five out of five score
Speaker 1: on you know, the good Employee ranking.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's in canon as well. The other part
Speaker 2: of the promo that I appreciated is when Cody came
Speaker 2: out and they didn't hide from the fact that Randy
Speaker 2: Orton changed the outcome of the title match. They brought
Speaker 2: it up, and they brought it up in a respectable manner.
Speaker 2: And also he was the honorable champion who says you
Speaker 2: deserve a rematch and I didn't know Randy was there,
Speaker 2: and I appreciated that, like that was something that should
Speaker 2: have been underlined and highlighted. It highlighted, and they underlined
Speaker 2: and highlighted it in the opening problem before they went
Speaker 2: on to the next thing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, standy Ovation says, I rewound and turned up
Speaker 1: the volume when they were talking off mic, So it
Speaker 1: worked on me lol. Ur La nineteen eighty four says, wait, honestly,
Speaker 1: I don't try to think about the behind the scenes
Speaker 1: characters when analyzing promoles because I probably hate every one
Speaker 1: of them in different ways. Hey, you know what, there's
Speaker 1: something about love the art, not the artist, don't ye
Speaker 1: The ignorance is bliss is a is a cliche saying
Speaker 1: for a reason.
Speaker 2: There's that saying too, don't meet your heroes or don't
Speaker 2: and nowadays it's more like, don't look up your heroes
Speaker 2: online to see the skeletons in their closet and to
Speaker 2: find out the things about them that are unsavory that
Speaker 2: make you like them less. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's enjoy the entertainment. I mean, obviously there's a
Speaker 1: line someone can cross, you like, I'm going to go
Speaker 1: out of my way to not support them. But there
Speaker 1: is something about how public Like there's a lot of
Speaker 1: things in the pre Internet era about people who are
Speaker 1: famous and a lot of unfamous people who you know
Speaker 1: in other eras. It's just there wasn't a way to
Speaker 1: find the stuff out in now. It is just it's
Speaker 1: human humans on earth, you know whatever. All right, Standarvation
Speaker 1: says I feel like they've sufficiently signed posted to me
Speaker 1: that chaos a guy's supposed to get behind. Tonight's framing
Speaker 1: was clearer than usual for me.
Speaker 2: Interesting, I can feel I can feel that too. I
Speaker 2: could feel that too. But the default from the guy
Speaker 2: who's coming back from a career ending neck injury, the
Speaker 2: default is you should have kind of an aura of
Speaker 2: good feeling about their return and wanting to see them
Speaker 2: to succeed at the highest level.
Speaker 1: Yep. Back to Aaron Rodgers, Vinnie Watkin says, yeah, see
Speaker 1: I punking Aaron Rodgers are very similar characters. I say
Speaker 1: this as a Steelers fan and someone that used to
Speaker 1: love punk as a kid in twenty eleven. Yep, yep.
Speaker 1: It comes up semi regularly for a reason for sure.
Speaker 1: All Right, Chris Rucker says Punk made fun of Rock
Speaker 1: about his Goosebumps motion, but then he did it tonight
Speaker 1: during Kao's entrance. What an asshole.
Speaker 2: So you're saying he's a hypocrite, he is a hippote.
Speaker 2: Let's be honest in many ways.
Speaker 1: Yes, I thought I probably don't have the context here,
Speaker 1: but Sean, I thought Punk was genuine, but it did
Speaker 1: look awful. Lol, will ask him what that's about Adam
Speaker 1: Kid says, yeah, punk just naturally comes off as an asshole. Oh,
Speaker 1: this is something standard AASI said Punk mock clapping Kevin
Speaker 1: Owens after KAO spoke about me on for seventeen months
Speaker 1: position KAO is the guy who's supposed to cheer the most.
Speaker 1: So there's a specific example.
Speaker 2: And I had a hard time reading that, Like I
Speaker 2: didn't know if it was like a legitimate clap or
Speaker 2: like a sarcastic yep clap, because initially I was thinking sarcasm,
Speaker 2: but then it almost seemed a little bit more like
Speaker 2: heartfelt congratulations. So I didn't know how to read that.
Speaker 1: I was about to say the same thing I like,
Speaker 1: cause I type up reports for people who don't see
Speaker 1: the show or they want to see what I'm saying
Speaker 1: about the show online while the show's on the air.
Speaker 1: By the way, check out my reports at PW Torch.
Speaker 1: You know, have a Tabor browser open, get away from
Speaker 1: social media or whatever.
Speaker 4: I mean.
Speaker 1: If you've just actually just watched the show without a
Speaker 1: second screen, that'd be my first recommendation. If you're watching
Speaker 1: the show, just settle in and watch at commercial breaks,
Speaker 1: open up your phone laptop, see what I'm saying about it,
Speaker 1: that's cool, And in my report I struggled to characterize it.
Speaker 1: I think I took out sarcastic or mock, but I
Speaker 1: had it typed in and I deleted it, and for
Speaker 1: the I was like, because all of a sudden, I
Speaker 1: heard thumping and I was looking at my computer screen
Speaker 1: and I looked up and it's like, what's that thumping noise?
Speaker 1: Like someone is hitting a bastrum, but it's punk clapping
Speaker 1: and the mic was making a bass rum sound. And
Speaker 1: the cadence was slow, which is normally when you're mocking somebody,
Speaker 1: but nothing else about it said mocking. It almost came
Speaker 1: across like I Am going to respectfully acknowledge that I'm
Speaker 1: happy that you're back without being obnoxious to interrupt your
Speaker 1: cadence Kale while you're talking, like, I just think it
Speaker 1: could have been red wrong. And by the way I'm told,
Speaker 1: one of the things that has frustrated punk over here
Speaker 1: again gain a psychoanalysis here is he feels like he
Speaker 1: gets bewildered at people's reactions to him because they get
Speaker 1: interpreted either differently than he intended or they reveal more
Speaker 1: than he think he revealed. In the way he reacted
Speaker 1: to something, and that is a source of frustration. According
Speaker 1: to people I know who have talked to him and
Speaker 1: been around him with him, that he doesn't understand people's
Speaker 1: reactions to what he does, and it kind of gets
Speaker 1: into I think he sees himself as very socially aware,
Speaker 1: very self aware of how he comes across, very confident
Speaker 1: as a communicator. So but he also it's I don't
Speaker 1: know if it thin skin is the right word, but
Speaker 1: he really reacts poorly to people misinterpreting what he meant
Speaker 1: or reading more into what he did. And and this
Speaker 1: might be like a small example of that, Like there's
Speaker 1: something about the way that he interacts with other humans
Speaker 1: that causes that leads to misunderstandings, which then sets them
Speaker 1: off because it's so frustrating for him, and it's super
Speaker 1: but I think it's subtle enough where you could kind
Speaker 1: of see like, again, I'm maybe I'm making more out
Speaker 1: of this than I should, but maybe this is the
Speaker 1: type of thing that happens where he does something he
Speaker 1: needs nothing by it, and we think he's being a dick. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So I feel like I'm kind of defending him and
Speaker 1: saying that I'm not sure I'm just I'm just talking.
Speaker 1: All right, let's see. Okay, Well there's a couple more
Speaker 1: Commson will get to calls. Adam Kidd says, I love
Speaker 1: Punk and Ko. I'm happy either way. I'm just gonna
Speaker 1: enjoy the ride. Yeah, the ride to the match. That's
Speaker 1: kind of how I feel. I mean, I just they're
Speaker 1: so good on microphone, and I mean there's a chance
Speaker 1: they get under each other's skin in a legit way.
Speaker 1: I don't think they should like aim for that to
Speaker 1: be part of the story. But bought reading body language,
Speaker 1: and you know, it's like Rock and Sina and punkin
Speaker 1: Sena and all the all the things we've seen where
Speaker 1: it's like, huh, you know, if these two aren't best friends,
Speaker 1: maybe that's a moment where you know you're gritting your
Speaker 1: you know, one of them is gritting their teeth, not wanting.
Speaker 1: I think I think Kevin owens It genuinely is secure enough.
Speaker 1: Like I think he's like, I got my I got
Speaker 1: my family, I got my career. I'm grateful to have
Speaker 1: this chance to be back in the ring. I can't
Speaker 1: believe with my gut that w We ever hired me
Speaker 1: in the first place. You know, he'd be there dating
Speaker 1: about that, and the.
Speaker 2: Piggyback on a lot of the positive comments. I think
Speaker 2: this was like one of those we always kind of
Speaker 2: wanted to see what it would be like when Kevin
Speaker 2: Owens and see him Punk stood face to face. It's
Speaker 2: set the right mood and now it's going to be
Speaker 2: open for over psychoanalysis and over analyzing things and all
Speaker 2: of these other nuances. And that's because we're so interested
Speaker 2: in it, because it's set that standard of Oh, I
Speaker 2: want to see this. This intrigues me. This definitely has
Speaker 2: my engagement and at this point my enthusiasm.
Speaker 1: Yes, as entertaining as Sammy is being insecure. There's something
Speaker 1: fascinating about two extremely well spoken, quick witted, quick thinking,
Speaker 1: clever people going back and forth on the mike who
Speaker 1: both want to be seen as I mean, I think
Speaker 1: Ko knows his career won't match seam Punks in whatever
Speaker 1: sort of stand old newstand magazine, realm of title reigns
Speaker 1: and drawing power in main events and all that. But
Speaker 1: I think, like I said, I think Kevin Owens is
Speaker 1: super happy with this life. I don't know, I mean,
Speaker 1: I think it's happy with his life. I think you'd
Speaker 1: rather not have missed seventeen months with the health issue.
Speaker 1: But he comes across as somebody who just he's happy
Speaker 1: with himself in his life, and Pump comes across as
Speaker 1: somebody who's soone happy with other people he can't be
Speaker 1: happy with his life too often.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and there's a healthy competition and also a nice
Speaker 2: juxposition to They have similarities, but it's their differences that
Speaker 2: is going to distinguish them from each other, which is
Speaker 2: going to make it. It could lead to conflict, but it
Speaker 2: also could make it very complimentary and building fan interest.
Speaker 1: I want them to not get infatuated with what you
Speaker 1: just said, even though that will inevitably be part of it.
Speaker 1: I want it to seem like that's happenstance, almost accidental,
Speaker 1: and a parenthetical, a sidebar. I want I want the
Speaker 1: focus not to be how can we get under each
Speaker 1: other's skin. I want it to be what can I
Speaker 1: say about this match that will give me a mental
Speaker 1: edge going into it, and then it just happens to
Speaker 1: be what we're talking about. That's fascinating. But I want
Speaker 1: Kevin Owens I wanted to come across. I don't need it.
Speaker 1: I don't need the announcers to explain it to us
Speaker 1: in an expository sort of way. Look at Koh, he
Speaker 1: is trying to get under into Punk's mind and overdo it.
Speaker 1: But I don't mind a little hint, Like Kevin Owen
Speaker 1: said that you can see in Punk's face that threw
Speaker 1: him off. Ko knows one of his advantages. After all
Speaker 1: his time away from the ring, and Punk's been I mean,
Speaker 1: he's been gassed in the ring lately, but that's whole.
Speaker 1: But they can tell the story Punk is Punk has
Speaker 1: his legs under his restling legs in Ko has been
Speaker 1: gone for year and a half. Ko deep down might
Speaker 1: be a little insecure about what he if he if
Speaker 1: he's going to be able to keep up with Punk,
Speaker 1: or how everything's gonna healthwise, is going to work out
Speaker 1: for him, so he needs the advantage to get in
Speaker 1: Punk's head and under his skin, and then vice versa.
Speaker 1: Punk is a master at mind game, so I want
Speaker 1: I want the story to be they're playing head games
Speaker 1: with each other to try to get a mental ledge
Speaker 1: going into the match, not Hey, let's all hold up
Speaker 1: scorecards to see who won on insults. And I think
Speaker 1: it's a small difference, but it's it makes all the
Speaker 1: difference in the world. I think for fans fuel to
Speaker 1: buy in and be thinking about the right thing when
Speaker 1: they're watching it.
Speaker 2: And the one way you can always correct course if
Speaker 2: you start veering off what you just said is make
Speaker 2: it about the match. Make it about winning the match.
Speaker 2: At the end of the promo, that's what we should
Speaker 2: take is this is a very important match, and it's
Speaker 2: very important for each of these guys to win because
Speaker 2: not only is it beating the other guy, but it's
Speaker 2: beating the other guy for the biggest prize in the industry.
Speaker 2: That should be very important.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 1: Speaking of which, piler E repeat in the chat says,
Speaker 1: Punk says he's the best in the world. He old
Speaker 1: is a top title. Hard to disagree. My issue with
Speaker 1: that this and I want to table this for later
Speaker 1: in the show because it's a whole other topic. But
Speaker 1: Punk acknowledged he did not beat Cody and really settle
Speaker 1: the score clean. But I also don't think you can
Speaker 1: do that and then concurrently say you're the best in
Speaker 1: the world when you won because of interference. It's sort
Speaker 1: of like Kathy Kelly going you upset trick twice. Baron
Speaker 1: Corbin talk about it. How about how about the interviewer
Speaker 1: goes up to Baron Corben and says, you know, you
Speaker 1: got a two to zero record against Trick, but you
Speaker 1: know what, nobody thinks you're better than him because both
Speaker 1: times were tainted. That's what the interviewer should say, that
Speaker 1: they are report or they shouldn't be sitting here treating
Speaker 1: everything neutral. And that's what the announcers are doing too.
Speaker 1: They just everything is like this neutral headline, like there's
Speaker 1: no right or wrong. That would be biased and we
Speaker 1: can't be biased. It's like, no, we didn't learn who
Speaker 1: the better restaurant was between Punk and Cody, and I
Speaker 1: want that to be an outstanding issue, and frankly, I
Speaker 1: want it to be something that seems like it's eating
Speaker 1: up Punk that Punk's like, all I want to do
Speaker 1: is beat Cody without Randy Orton's interference. And now Kevin
Speaker 1: o'ds you're number one contender and I got to focus
Speaker 1: on you while everybody's thinking do I even deserve this title?
Speaker 1: Because Randy Orton took that from me? And I know
Speaker 1: Deboie's like, oh, we don't want the focus to be
Speaker 1: on things that aren't right in front of us, But
Speaker 1: I want to buy in to these real human beings
Speaker 1: having complex thoughts that they express, and they don't just
Speaker 1: turn the page because it's the next time. It's where
Speaker 1: it's time to promote the next match. I think viewers
Speaker 1: can handle it. It doesn't be talked about constantly, but
Speaker 1: the five days six days after this tainted victory where
Speaker 1: nothing was proven, I want punk to be kind of
Speaker 1: hung up on that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and this doesn't one hundred percent mitigate what you're
Speaker 2: talking about. But I did appreciate the line he said
Speaker 2: where he said I'm mad about it, but I'm not
Speaker 2: as mad as you are, yep, because that, to me
Speaker 2: is like a champion who takes pride in proving without
Speaker 2: a shadow of doubt that he's the best totally. And
Speaker 2: I'm glad he brought that up, and.
Speaker 1: I mentioned that, I think earlier in the show or
Speaker 1: unless I thought it, and I like that. My issue
Speaker 1: is take it the next step further. And when you're
Speaker 1: saying I am the best in the world, and this
Speaker 1: is it is triggered because pol of repeatzas he holds
Speaker 1: a top title, it's hard to disagree it's best in
Speaker 1: the world right now. In the realm of w W
Speaker 1: E the world that we that we get a window
Speaker 1: in two every week. We don't Punk is. Punk's not
Speaker 1: the best in the world. He's not not the best
Speaker 1: in the world. It's just that's why I said it
Speaker 1: was gonna get in it. But the whole point of
Speaker 1: that Delwdie sells us on this match, find out who's
Speaker 1: better between Cody and Punk, and then Joe Testor can't
Speaker 1: express an opinion that that got cheat, that we got
Speaker 1: cheated out of that, and they're scared that it's going
Speaker 1: to bounce back. It's kind of like when in De
Speaker 1: Wite Unreal where Paula echoes John Cena wanted to have
Speaker 1: intentionally bad matches and we told him that's not gonna
Speaker 1: get heat on you, that's gonna get heat on us.
Speaker 1: In twenty twenty six, twenty five, they're gonna know we're
Speaker 1: booking it and we're boring. Then we can't do that. John.
Speaker 1: John's wrestling IQ not the highest. I will stand by
Speaker 1: that for a top guy, very very much well below average,
Speaker 1: and that's I think an example of a lot of
Speaker 1: things John presents. It get like he gets tucked out
Speaker 1: of it, but people make him think it was his idea,
Speaker 1: and so you you ought to have a willingness to
Speaker 1: tell the right story regard if telling the right story
Speaker 1: is gonna make people think you're booking sucks, then don't
Speaker 1: make your booking sucks so that you can tell a
Speaker 1: good faith story after what you do. My point is
Speaker 1: own what you do. Have characters react naturally to what happens,
Speaker 1: and if that reflects poorly on you as a booker,
Speaker 1: because you're scared fans are going to go, well, yeah,
Speaker 1: we didn't really solve anything, and I paid one thousand
Speaker 1: dollars for my sorce. I'm taking in fluid to Minneapolis,
Speaker 1: and you're right. I was cool to Randy, but I
Speaker 1: didn't the whole point of the match. We'll see who
Speaker 1: is better between Cody and Punk. And I'm mad at
Speaker 1: Paula Vack for booking that finish. I think they're genuinely
Speaker 1: worried about drawing attention to that and having the lead
Speaker 1: announcer go, we didn't really solve anything on Saturday, but
Speaker 1: it's still there. And so now not only did you
Speaker 1: have a booking decision that took away the whole selling
Speaker 1: point of the match, but now you're conning the fans
Speaker 1: gaslighting the fans. You're not You're chipping away at goodwill
Speaker 1: by not owning what happened and framing it the way
Speaker 1: that it should be framed. This were a real sport,
Speaker 1: which is I want Joe Tessitur to say the fans
Speaker 1: are channing Randy, But there are a lot of fans
Speaker 1: in Minneapolis who who they were excited to see Randy,
Speaker 1: but when all the dust settled, Randy cost them a
Speaker 1: chance to find out who was better between Punk and Cody.
Speaker 1: I don't think that's her. I think there's more good
Speaker 1: than bad that comes from that. Introducing that officially into
Speaker 1: the narrative, and then I want Punk to lean a
Speaker 1: little more into it and go I wear this title.
Speaker 1: I believe I'm the best in the world, but my
Speaker 1: first title defense is tainted and beating Uko is step
Speaker 1: one and getting improving it. But I gotta beat Cody again.
Speaker 1: But now you're standing in front of me, like there's
Speaker 1: a way to frame it, Derek, where you're getting people
Speaker 1: excited about two matches, and you're also letting them know
Speaker 1: we're owning what we did.
Speaker 2: And I think you in that last line that you
Speaker 2: just gave is what I prefer if you're going to
Speaker 2: do it, own it, yeh, don't hide from it, don't
Speaker 2: run from it. And it was made that finish was
Speaker 2: made to at least get some heat on Randy Orton
Speaker 2: to set them up as the heel going into a
Speaker 2: feud with Cody Rhodes.
Speaker 3: YEP.
Speaker 2: Announcers could underline the fact that this makes Randy Orton
Speaker 2: a heel not only because he's a jerk, but because
Speaker 2: he ruined the title match.
Speaker 1: Yep exactly. And if you acknowledge it, it feels like
Speaker 1: you're aware enough to try to protect it in the
Speaker 1: future instead of it feeling like a con where we're
Speaker 1: going to tell you the reason to be into this
Speaker 1: match is this born total control of whether we give
Speaker 1: you the answer to the question that we say is
Speaker 1: we are selling you that is vitally important and we
Speaker 1: are telling you go to the building by ESPN Unlimited
Speaker 1: watch this match. You can find out who's better. But
Speaker 1: we're also in control of taking that away from you.
Speaker 1: And now next time you sell us on the importance
Speaker 1: of a match, you lose goodwill. It's just whether people
Speaker 1: are revertly thinking about it or not. That sense of
Speaker 1: I'm tuning in and I'm going to see the outcome
Speaker 1: that they're selling me on is there or not there,
Speaker 1: depending on how they follow up on it.
Speaker 2: All right, Also, if you don't do it too often,
Speaker 2: I think maybe one of the problems is they've just
Speaker 2: they've done these cop out finishes so often that they
Speaker 2: don't want to highlight them and draw attention to them,
Speaker 2: because then it's obvious that you do them too often.
Speaker 2: So that's an indicator that you're doing them too much.
Speaker 1: So pull back absolutely. Jase Scooby says, by the way,
Speaker 1: Seampunk's nothing like Aaron Rodgers. You can elaborate on that.
Speaker 1: I don't think like politically their views on all kinds
Speaker 1: of things. Punk's right, Aaron's wrong.
Speaker 2: Personality traits, their personality traits have similarities.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and they're not mirror. I mean, there are things
Speaker 1: about Aaron Rodgers that are different than Punk beyond just
Speaker 1: there's an arrogance to how right they are. And it
Speaker 1: just so happens. Punk is right about the vast majority
Speaker 1: of things that he has a strong opinion on, and
Speaker 1: he makes you resent him for it by the time
Speaker 1: he's on, you know, convincing people who don't get who
Speaker 1: don't see what's apparent him. Aaron Rodgers is wrong about
Speaker 1: almost everything, but you also resent him because he's so
Speaker 1: arrogant and he thinks he knows everything he doesn't.
Speaker 2: All right, And both guys will never admit they were
Speaker 2: wrong even when they find out they are, which is
Speaker 2: like one of my biggest, uh my biggest complaints about
Speaker 2: the society in which we live in. Yeah, just if
Speaker 2: something comes out and you were wrong about it, just
Speaker 2: say that you made a mistake. For goodness sake, we
Speaker 2: can be adults.
Speaker 1: When your whole identity is wrapped up in how smart
Speaker 1: you are and how ahead of the curve you are. Like,
Speaker 1: I know people who their pride is being ahead of
Speaker 1: the curve, and so they'll jump on anything that Joe
Speaker 1: Rogan has a guest who doesn't have any foundational science
Speaker 1: to back up anything they're saying. But it was a
Speaker 1: compelling conversation and it made me think, so now I
Speaker 1: want to be ahead of the curve on the modern
Speaker 1: snake oil theory of the day. And it's like when
Speaker 1: when Aaron Rodgers and t Umpunker, I think, now we're
Speaker 1: very psychoanalyzing punking. And I didn't want to do this
Speaker 1: but I think Punk does want to be right, wants
Speaker 1: to be a little ahead on this stuff, and Aaron
Speaker 1: Rodgers certainly puts himself out there. Let me let me
Speaker 1: pontificate about something that I'm not an expert on. But
Speaker 1: I read a couple articles and talk to somebody, and
Speaker 1: now I have this thing that everyone should follow me on.
Speaker 1: And it's just like he couldn't be like more proven wrong,
Speaker 1: like you say, Derek over and over, but he'll he's
Speaker 1: just many you got me clever enough to ignore a
Speaker 1: distract or deflect from it. Adam Kid says, yes, there's
Speaker 1: just an arrogance about everything they both say, and he's
Speaker 1: talking about Ko and Punk and storyline more so. But
Speaker 1: Jason Scooby underlines, yeah, Ko got the last word, but
Speaker 1: the champ gets the music. The music at the end
Speaker 1: and the segment walkout, So in that sense, he's saying,
Speaker 1: you know, maybe it even out a bit. You know
Speaker 1: that last segment you're just listening to and the next
Speaker 1: one that you're waiting to listen to, those can be
Speaker 1: one second apart. With a VP membership, you can lock
Speaker 1: our commercial free versions of our shows pw Torch dot com,
Speaker 1: slash Go VIP tells you how to do it. That's
Speaker 1: pw torch dot com slash Go VIP options exist within
Speaker 1: the Apple podcast app using your Apple account through Patreon,
Speaker 1: which by the way, you can sync up with Spotify
Speaker 1: or just about any iOS or Android app. With a
Speaker 1: full VIP membership, you can customize the feed for individual
Speaker 1: shows and clusters of shows and themes. Go to pw
Speaker 1: torch dot com slash go vip for full details on
Speaker 1: all the options to listen commercial free and with upper
Speaker 1: tier options unlock our VP exclusive podcast run throughout the
Speaker 1: week every week. All right, all right, let's uh, let's
Speaker 1: go to good Fellow. I'll put this up. I'll love
Speaker 1: it and to wait. He doesn't want to talk about it again,
Speaker 1: but always does. I enjoyed every time you do, though,
Speaker 1: thank you, I thank you, I thank you.
Speaker 2: It's very similar to my mother and politics. Time she
Speaker 2: says she doesn't want to talk about it anymore. I
Speaker 2: know a fifteen minute, and I mean in.
Speaker 1: My defense and in this context, not all contexts, but
Speaker 1: in this context, I am just putting chat comments up
Speaker 1: and I want to give everybody a voice, and so
Speaker 1: when I get to it, I don't want to when I
Speaker 1: say I don't want to talk about it, and then
Speaker 1: there's a chat comment, and then I want to like
Speaker 1: comment on the chat comment. That's when I sort of
Speaker 1: apologize for it. I hope I'm not repeating myself, but
Speaker 1: adding new dimensions to it. Hopefully all right. Derek says
Speaker 1: punkin Sissy is best in the world. That rings hollow,
Speaker 1: considering Roman is still the top guy in the company.
Speaker 1: They weren't the Maine to mant A Summer Slim Night one,
Speaker 1: as that honor went to Ober versus Brocket Helena Cell.
Speaker 1: That's an ongoing issue. It's problem with having two world
Speaker 1: title bults. Try explaining that to a non fan, you know. Uh,
Speaker 1: Standardation says by framing Punk's current title is the top
Speaker 1: prize in the world, they're no selling the meaning of
Speaker 1: his lost to Roman in the biggest match of the
Speaker 1: year at Wresselemania. Yeah it's fair. Yeah again, Yeah, that
Speaker 1: should be brought up. Crofton says, I thought it was
Speaker 1: interesting that wayde Berrett mentioned that kone Punk had a
Speaker 1: lot of history, but they were asked not to go
Speaker 1: into it.
Speaker 2: I kind of like that too. You don't have to
Speaker 2: tell us everything when it when it happened outside of
Speaker 2: the company, right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then but he goes it might have it
Speaker 1: was a bit odd, but it might have been a
Speaker 1: strategy to get us to google it interesting maybe, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, it works either way, it works either way.
Speaker 1: Good fellow ads, by the way, thank you for the community.
Speaker 2: Wait.
Speaker 1: I love being able to come on here and talk wraps.
Speaker 1: Of course, it's it's so fun. All right, let's let's
Speaker 1: go to uh Sean Plicta and get his thoughts. He
Speaker 1: loves that. I trip over his name as I try
Speaker 1: to actually get it right. He's laughing. It's hard to
Speaker 1: break a hap. I'm just gonna go Sean from Tennessee
Speaker 1: again and just not even not even deal with it.
Speaker 4: But but see, if you do, Wade, then you gotta
Speaker 4: at some point in time, playing my song. It's my song.
Speaker 4: Mike gave me my song. I gotta get my song
Speaker 4: every every once in a blue mood. Come on, come on, I.
Speaker 1: Got it, I got I get you. We'll see, we'll see.
Speaker 4: I mean, I it surprised me. It'll be great. And
Speaker 4: whenever it happens, it'll be great. I'll be thankful. I'll
Speaker 4: just be very thankful, very humble. No, a lot of
Speaker 4: good points tonight, a lot of the chat has been
Speaker 4: on fire. It's been fun to be in the chat
Speaker 4: for a little bit.
Speaker 6: Now.
Speaker 4: I just want to bring up with Punk and Kao,
Speaker 4: like we've all been talking about. I just want I
Speaker 4: still even though they had good things like Ko of
Speaker 4: course talking about being on for seventeen months, like you said, Derek,
Speaker 4: it makes me want to get behind him. But then
Speaker 4: he's still saying, you know, Punk's a piece of crap
Speaker 4: and all this stuff. It's like my goal again, and Wade,
Speaker 4: You've talked about it and I want you to be consistent,
Speaker 4: and I'm more than you on this. I want somebody
Speaker 4: to cheer in, somebody to boo. And there's still Punk
Speaker 4: is still making me want to get behind him. He's
Speaker 4: still saying I think I'm the best in the world.
Speaker 4: I'm still like he's the Cody stuff before showed that.
Speaker 4: He's like, hey, I'm mad that this happened. I wish
Speaker 4: I want it the right way. It didn't, you know.
Speaker 4: I still we don't like both guys generally, and I
Speaker 4: want to root against somebody and root for somebody, and
Speaker 4: they always do that right now, and it's driving me
Speaker 4: crazy and it's good promo. And the promo was good.
Speaker 4: I enjoyed it, but I want it to lean more
Speaker 4: in the next coming weeks of who am I supposed
Speaker 4: to truly get behind the one person I want to
Speaker 4: root for, and I want it to be Ko in
Speaker 4: a lot of ways because I KO just got back
Speaker 4: and I love them, but I hunk I like too,
Speaker 4: So just make it clear, goad there.
Speaker 2: So, Sean. I think the one thing that I can
Speaker 2: kind of set my head on that might make it
Speaker 2: all right, which they did actually do with seth Rollins
Speaker 2: and Roman Reigns, is at the end of the day,
Speaker 2: as long as they show respect for each other. I
Speaker 2: don't need everybody to love each other and hug it out.
Speaker 2: But at the end of the day, after they have
Speaker 2: their match, if they show respect to each other, I
Speaker 2: actually like them both more. And if you can have
Speaker 2: that babyface babyface match. I mean, that's what Chad Gable
Speaker 2: and Pensa did. They have a competitive match. Seth Rawlins
Speaker 2: and Roman Rans have a competitive match, but at the
Speaker 2: end of the day, one guy wins, the other guy loses,
Speaker 2: and then they show respect for each other. And then
Speaker 2: I'm like, even if the guy I like lost. I
Speaker 2: have respect for him more because he put up a
Speaker 2: good fight and then he was honorable in defeat, which
Speaker 2: is one of the best qualities you can have as
Speaker 2: a human.
Speaker 4: Well, and I want true heels too, like I mean,
Speaker 4: obviously Orton didn't and I'll talk about that in a
Speaker 4: minute too, but yeah, that's what I'm saying, Like, I
Speaker 4: just want there to be other than you know, I mean,
Speaker 4: Gunther's done a great job and Sammy's you know, turning
Speaker 4: into that, which has been great, but you know, just
Speaker 4: give me some good guys to get to root against.
Speaker 4: And I think one of these guys can do that,
Speaker 4: and I just I just want them. I'd rather them
Speaker 4: because again, Cody Punk kind of did that. I mean
Speaker 4: they kind of did even though they were having issues,
Speaker 4: but they still had respect for each other. It was
Speaker 4: still overall like I have respect for you, and tonight
Speaker 4: they did that. I mean, they had respect for each other.
Speaker 4: But like every match, big match can't be that way,
Speaker 4: you know, every once in a while do it. So
Speaker 4: I want to go to Randy and Cody because I
Speaker 4: loved everything about that tonight.
Speaker 1: I love that.
Speaker 4: I just I love again Cody Adam's gonna hate me.
Speaker 4: But Cody's genuine. I love everything about Cody. Tonight he said,
Speaker 4: you know, asked him? Just asked him? Or do you
Speaker 4: did you know it wasn't gonna happen?
Speaker 1: Did you know?
Speaker 4: He's like, no, Okay, I respect that, Sam Punk, You're champion.
Speaker 4: You know, even though he doesn't feel, probably in his
Speaker 4: part that he that he is because he knows he
Speaker 4: got screwed. But he's not gonna complain like a whiner
Speaker 4: and be a baby about it.
Speaker 2: He wasn't.
Speaker 4: He was very genuine about it. And then when Cody
Speaker 4: and Randy started having their stuff and Randy just is
Speaker 4: leaning into the heel, which I love. He can do it.
Speaker 4: The fans will get go against him. They will. It'll take,
Speaker 4: you know, a couple of weeks, but they will, and
Speaker 4: he'll have some vicious attacks on him. It's gonna be great.
Speaker 4: But Cody just seeming so genuine, but then having that
Speaker 4: that mean side, that mean streak, and he didn't and
Speaker 4: he's when he said, I'm not a good guy anymore.
Speaker 4: It's not that I'm a heel.
Speaker 3: It didn't.
Speaker 4: It wasn't.
Speaker 3: I'm a heel.
Speaker 4: And so I'm gonna go to this dark side. I'm
Speaker 4: gonna get revenge on you, and I'm gonna beat you,
Speaker 4: and I'm gonna, you know, do all, And it was
Speaker 4: just great. I just loved everything about that segment. What
Speaker 4: do you guys think?
Speaker 1: So I I I'm still angry at Randy for his
Speaker 1: go home promo leading into WrestleMania. He needed he ran
Speaker 1: in it, and tonight was a continuation of it. So
Speaker 1: there's some baggage there, But in context, Randy's promos are
Speaker 1: built around Randy's story and at a fascination that he
Speaker 1: or the writer of his promos has with Randy's story,
Speaker 1: and it's disconnected. I would argue more than it should
Speaker 1: be too often and almost entirely sometimes from the greater good,
Speaker 1: which is what's the crowd reaction goal, Not selling a
Speaker 1: new T shirt with a slogan on it, not making
Speaker 1: the best case you can. That sounds entirely reasonable. So
Speaker 1: Sean from Tennessee calls up and goes, I liked it.
Speaker 1: You want Randy to if his he should be a
Speaker 1: heel here, and because Cody could use a heel opponent,
Speaker 1: and I know they're like, oh, but Randy's bigger than
Speaker 1: the he'll face construct there's too many people, you know,
Speaker 1: Roman bigger than the he'll face construct whatever. No, Randy
Speaker 1: should not make a good case for you gave me permission, Cody,
Speaker 1: so I did it. It's your fault. You told me
Speaker 1: to do it, and that version didn't work, so and
Speaker 1: this version will. And I'm being selfish and of course
Speaker 1: deb to be just in their narrative, and people go, well,
Speaker 1: the fans don't care about right and wrong, or they
Speaker 1: don't care about integrity to finishes, so it therefore that
Speaker 1: proves that it doesn't that you shouldn't try, and it would.
Speaker 1: It's a it's a failed philosophy that isn't current with
Speaker 1: the time. So I'm like, no, it's a product of
Speaker 1: the narrative that fans don't care because it feel foolish
Speaker 1: to care, and the people who did care stop watching,
Speaker 1: and the people are still watching watch for a different
Speaker 1: reason than being invested in a certain outcome because somebody
Speaker 1: does it the right way. If w to B invests
Speaker 1: in that narrative structure, again, the fans will buy into that,
Speaker 1: and he might end up with more fans too. So
Speaker 1: Randy is just is making a case for what goes
Speaker 1: on in his head. To do it, but it's to
Speaker 1: what ends is he doing it. It's not to get booed,
Speaker 1: it's not to get Cody cheered. It's to just it's
Speaker 1: like he said on the he's on the stand as
Speaker 1: a defense. He's defending himself on the stand at trial.
Speaker 1: Here's why I did it. And the fans are you know?
Speaker 1: I mean, Cody should have known better, Randy should know.
Speaker 1: Randy's just being Randy. And we love Randy because he's
Speaker 1: a star in the r KO and the music, and
Speaker 1: so I want Randy's goal and I wanted to be
Speaker 1: going into WrestleMania get Cody cheered, and it's not. It's
Speaker 1: just Randy making the best case he can for himself.
Speaker 1: So that's the downside of what he did tonight. And
Speaker 1: it was a continuation of something that was more greed
Speaker 1: just going into WrestleMania. But because this is the next
Speaker 1: time we've heard from him, I'm saying it's a continuation
Speaker 1: of that. And I don't want him to make the
Speaker 1: best case for Randy. I want him to make a
Speaker 1: case where we go screw that. He's telling himself a
Speaker 1: story and and and and that story he's telling himself
Speaker 1: is just excuse making for his own shortcomings, or he's
Speaker 1: trying to rationalize being insane and unreliable and a bad
Speaker 1: friend and taking advantage of Cody is a good person.
Speaker 1: And but I thought Cody was strong, and I like
Speaker 1: I you know, Adam in the in the chat, Uh says, Uh,
Speaker 1: well sether vision. Three verstays Cody was good to his
Speaker 1: promo's good tonight. He's great out of making the best
Speaker 1: out of bad situations. He has a lot of practice.
Speaker 1: By the way, on that Crafton says Cody had a
Speaker 1: good night. Overall, Powder of Pete said face Cody and
Speaker 1: r k o heel is good as long as the
Speaker 1: fans play along. And here's a comment I'm looking for.
Speaker 1: Adam kidd Sean says Cody is faker than some of
Speaker 1: Tiffany's anatomy.
Speaker 4: That's just I'm sorry. I mean, you can have be
Speaker 4: fun with it, but I mean that's ridiculous. I mean,
Speaker 4: you have fun with it and say that that's Adam's opinion.
Speaker 1: That's fine, You're allowed to have your opinion. I just
Speaker 1: that's a little ridiculous. I mean, I just Cody does
Speaker 1: not seem fake to me. I mean, again, you could
Speaker 1: say he's not whatever.
Speaker 4: But to say he's fake is yeah, I think it's
Speaker 4: a little too far, but that's again, that's just my
Speaker 4: view on it.
Speaker 1: And I agree. Let me sneak this in just Jac
Speaker 1: Scooby says, probably the best promo Cody had on a long, long,
Speaker 1: long while Chris Rucker says Cody is fake. Jac Scooby says,
Speaker 1: I think Cody's character needs to evolve. I get that
Speaker 1: this is an issue, right, What's that it.
Speaker 2: Might be tonight because the night there was more fire
Speaker 2: and he even gave the line than I'm sick of
Speaker 2: being the I'm sick of being the white night. I'm
Speaker 2: gonna if you want to go dirty, I'm gonna take
Speaker 2: it there too. My favorite part of tonight's angle, which
Speaker 2: I think they might have found the special sauce that
Speaker 2: will keep Randy a heel, is I think it's really
Speaker 2: hard in twenty twenty six for a lot of the
Speaker 2: things that historically made someone a heel being attacking someone
Speaker 2: from behind, hitting them when they're not looking, an over
Speaker 2: aggressive beat down, an excessive violence, sarcasm, cutting comments, all
Speaker 2: of these things that used to make someone a heel. Now,
Speaker 2: if you're good enough at him, they get you cheered.
Speaker 2: But one thing that I think is timeless and pro
Speaker 2: wrestling is no one wants to cheer a coward, and
Speaker 2: so I think the special sauce to ensure that Cody
Speaker 2: remains a babyface and Randy remains a heel is what
Speaker 2: they did tonight. Cody is trying to fight him. Randy
Speaker 2: is the coward who is running absolutely and I love
Speaker 2: that part of it is Randy's not standing up to him.
Speaker 2: Randy bows out of the so he's this guy who
Speaker 2: talks up this huge fight and then he bells and
Speaker 2: then gets all aggressive on the mic. And then the
Speaker 2: other magic point is Randy was cutting a great promo that,
Speaker 2: like Wade says, was so good, it was kind of
Speaker 2: a babyface promo because it got the crowd fired up.
Speaker 2: It creates this atmosphere of intensity, and then Cody matched
Speaker 2: and exceeded that atmosphere of intensity, which made him win
Speaker 2: the segment. So if this segment for a babyface hill segment,
Speaker 2: the babyface should be designed to get the best of
Speaker 2: the heel in most of the segments, unless the heel
Speaker 2: undercuts her cheats to get the best of the babyface.
Speaker 2: Randy Bell's like a coward. I think what they should
Speaker 2: do for the next three weeks, Cody's trying to fight Randy,
Speaker 2: and Randy avoids it at all costs because not only
Speaker 2: does it make it a coward, but fans want to
Speaker 2: see them fight. So if it's Randy who's avoiding the fight,
Speaker 2: he's taking away what the fans want to see. That
Speaker 2: is a heel characteristic that's going to get you boot
Speaker 2: in the arena.
Speaker 1: And I absolutely love that. I mean, Randy teasing coming
Speaker 1: in the ring and back in the way, teasing, coming in,
Speaker 1: backing away did make him the heel and I want
Speaker 1: his and let's give him credit for that. And that
Speaker 1: is something that in the end, you know, all's well,
Speaker 1: that ends well in a way. But I'll and I
Speaker 1: know it seems sort of hack or whatever, but it's
Speaker 1: not like they don't do it enough with playing to
Speaker 1: the crowd by name in the city. I want Randy
Speaker 1: to say, part of me not being, part of being
Speaker 1: the worst version of myself is looking at you. You
Speaker 1: fans were channing r KO and telling you some version
Speaker 1: of screw off, like I don't need you when you
Speaker 1: guys are chanting for me, and I start eating it up.
Speaker 1: It gets me off my game, and my game is,
Speaker 1: through any means necessary, take out somebody like Cody and
Speaker 1: then say something about Cody that people like that Randy doesn't.
Speaker 1: And now he's psychological. Fans are going, well, God, I
Speaker 1: thought I liked Randy, but now he's saying he doesn't
Speaker 1: want our cheers, and he's saying something about Cody that
Speaker 1: I that I like, or that is a good trade
Speaker 1: in people that he's now demeaning. Whatever, there's there's a
Speaker 1: way to add a little bit more to the context,
Speaker 1: to the content into his promo. So he's not cool Randy.
Speaker 1: And one of the problems that would he has right
Speaker 1: now is the communal crowd response, which is we love
Speaker 1: to chant and cheer and sing and pop for entrances
Speaker 1: and songs and catch phrases and all that, but then
Speaker 1: they'll turn and they'll they'll they'll then do the boo
Speaker 1: you or or whatever, and I just like, let's try
Speaker 1: to create a consistent emotion with your audience so that
Speaker 1: they're they takes. I want fans take their own feelings
Speaker 1: seriously and not be jerked around having to kind of
Speaker 1: check themselves and change back and forth. One other thing
Speaker 1: about this. People saying, oh, Cody said he doesn't have
Speaker 1: to be the good good guy anymore. Well, Cody said,
Speaker 1: is I don't have to. Derek Mitchell said, biggest thing
Speaker 1: Cody said that I was I don't need to be
Speaker 1: a good guy. You mentioned that earlier. What Cody really
Speaker 1: said is I don't have to abide by the standards
Speaker 1: of being champion. And when people say Cody, Yeah, when
Speaker 1: people say Cody's phony, I don't know what they're referring to.
Speaker 1: I think what you're saying is I don't like a
Speaker 1: than to Cody. That doesn't mean he's phony. You cannot
Speaker 1: like him. Chris Rucker in the check goes he's tries
Speaker 1: too hard with the suits and he tries to fit
Speaker 1: big words in every promo. He's such a try hard Yes,
Speaker 1: the suits are kind of weird and the you know,
Speaker 1: and then he would look upwards, you know, words that
Speaker 1: didn't flow naturally, and he'd misuse them, and it's made
Speaker 1: it something It came across as in insecurity like, oh,
Speaker 1: I need it sound smarter than I am. So I'm
Speaker 1: gonna use words that I don't naturally flow, but I'm
Speaker 1: gonna look it up to sound smarter thing. He hasn't
Speaker 1: done that like a year and a half, so that's
Speaker 1: not a thing he does anymore. The thing is is
Speaker 1: what you see in Cody's promo tonight is Cody who
Speaker 1: believes in himself and knows what his character is and
Speaker 1: is admitting in this promo. Yes, when I'm champion, I
Speaker 1: feel a pressure to represent the company. It is what
Speaker 1: I when I was hanging man page when he first
Speaker 1: one aw world title at right afterwards at the media
Speaker 1: Q and A are you gonna show up one day?
Speaker 3: At time?
Speaker 1: Am im feeling different? He's like, I haven't really thought
Speaker 1: of that. Cody thought about that every night of his
Speaker 1: freaking life. He's woken up going, Man, if I'm champion someday,
Speaker 1: how am I going to enter the locker room and
Speaker 1: lead and b QB one and and try to represent
Speaker 1: the sport that my dad raised me? And how how
Speaker 1: am I going to represent myself as champion? Because I
Speaker 1: when I walk in public, I'm going to represent this
Speaker 1: brand in this business. That's all Cody thought about when
Speaker 1: I asked Hangman. It's like the thought had never crossed
Speaker 1: his mind that that's even a thing. He didn't know
Speaker 1: wrestling history enough to know that's a thing in WWE,
Speaker 1: and aw is new then aim as a great guy.
Speaker 1: But I'm just saying in that case, it was like,
Speaker 1: so when you say Cody is a tryhard that is authentic. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Like he buys it and he does so in a
Speaker 1: way that it's a lot, but it's kind of admirable
Speaker 1: if you love pro wrestling. Guess what, Cody loves it
Speaker 1: more than anybody.
Speaker 4: And he.
Speaker 1: Wants to represent it in what he believes is the
Speaker 1: best way to represent it, which is a decade's long
Speaker 1: representation of what the lea the QB won the World
Speaker 1: Champion Babyface should be. And it revealed itself tonight when
Speaker 1: he says I don't feel that burden anymore. And it
Speaker 1: worked perfectly for the story with Randy, but it's also
Speaker 1: saying if you didn't like me when I'm champion, or
Speaker 1: there's certain things about it, I had to kind of
Speaker 1: hold back. It's like a teacher who loses their job
Speaker 1: and they can say what they want to say to
Speaker 1: the parent of the kid who annoyed the hell out
Speaker 1: of them for three years. You know what I mean, Like,
Speaker 1: I'm not a teacher. I'm not on the school. I'm
Speaker 1: not on payroll anymore. I'm not employed by the school district.
Speaker 1: So guess what, dad of Johnny, You suck as a
Speaker 1: dad and you don't appreciate the work that teachers go through,
Speaker 1: Like that's kind of what Cody went through tonight. That's genuine.
Speaker 1: I do think he thinks I now can act differently
Speaker 1: to Randy in character on TV because I don't have
Speaker 1: to represent myself in a way that I had to
Speaker 1: whenever I'm champion.
Speaker 2: So and I think some people might misinterpret fakeness for
Speaker 2: being kind of a goodie two shoes and maybe I
Speaker 2: mean Cody that's Cody Roach's character. I mean, he is
Speaker 2: the goody two shoes. But to me, is that fake.
Speaker 2: It's no more fake than what Trick Williams does. He's
Speaker 2: not wearing like a feather a white feathered massive coats
Speaker 2: with a tail that was fifty feet long at WrestleMania.
Speaker 2: That's trying hard.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, yep, yep. Sanitation says Cody is epitome of
Speaker 1: fake it until you make it. Yes, No, Chris Rocker says,
Speaker 1: if Cody is anybody else would be calling him a
Speaker 1: mark for himself. I mean, I think that's worth pondering
Speaker 1: and commenting on it. I don't think I think there's
Speaker 1: something different with Cody because it's this is what I
Speaker 1: say to Chris and then sewn I prompts story you.
Speaker 1: I think what Cody is doing is he's not a
Speaker 1: mark for himself. He feels anti I don't want to
Speaker 1: relabel as antiquated because I don't think it is, but
Speaker 1: by it sort of has become. Unfortunately, this antiquated notion
Speaker 1: that even though the booker decides your world champion, that
Speaker 1: is you are given that on of holding that title
Speaker 1: and being the top guy because you've earned it. There's
Speaker 1: merit and with it comes responsibility and also being a
Speaker 1: lead babyface who kids look up to him. Mean, he
Speaker 1: didn't want to turn heel in aw because I put
Speaker 1: the kids and the charity and all that. I believe
Speaker 1: that's way more sincere in this than a lot of
Speaker 1: this won't ames but a lot of babyfaces. So I
Speaker 1: think did a lot of stuff for you know, they
Speaker 1: chose the quickest, easiest way to get the good pr
Speaker 1: to build their brand, to sell merchandise. And I think
Speaker 1: Cody off camera is the real deal a lot more
Speaker 1: than most people are.
Speaker 2: And I think he inherited a traditional mindset of what
Speaker 2: it means to be a wrestling champion that he's internalized
Speaker 2: to be incredibly important to him and the company he represents,
Speaker 2: and that is what his character is.
Speaker 1: Yep.
Speaker 6: Longing for some nostalgia or maybe you want to learn
Speaker 6: some wrestling history, don't miss the Nineties Past cast every
Speaker 6: Friday on the PW Torch Daily Cast Feed. Alex and
Speaker 6: Patrick will transport you thirty years into the past by
Speaker 6: taking you through the Torch issue from that very weak
Speaker 6: follow news from the WWF and WCW, and all the
Speaker 6: happenings from across the wrestling industry in real time as
Speaker 6: The Torch reported it thirty years ago. That's the Nineties
Speaker 6: Pass cast every Friday on the PW Torch Daily Cast Feed.
Speaker 1: Adam kidsys and he was actually good tonight. I don't
Speaker 1: know who's talking about, but Sean, will you take that? Well,
Speaker 1: I'm hoping, but I'm just throwing back to Sean.
Speaker 2: No.
Speaker 4: I mean, I mean Adam, No, Adam and I are friends.
Speaker 4: I just I disagree with him on that topic, but
Speaker 4: I mean it's fine, You're I mean, I think Cody
Speaker 4: always his field I mean, I see the reasons why
Speaker 4: some people would say that, but I just feel when
Speaker 4: I watch him, he does not come off like that.
Speaker 4: To me. He comes off as like a baby face
Speaker 4: that I want to get behind.
Speaker 1: And tonight the other thing said he was talking about
Speaker 1: by the way Adam Kitson, it was.
Speaker 4: Somebody brought up too, and it was perf And it
Speaker 4: was so true when Ko came out when he was
Speaker 4: in the aisle and Cody, you know, they looked at
Speaker 4: each other because they'd had the feud before he left,
Speaker 4: and he just handed him the mic.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Gone, I mean that's a genuine thing to do, man.
Speaker 4: I mean, he didn't have to do that, but he
Speaker 4: was like, you know in Canaan, like, no, I'm here,
Speaker 4: you go, You're then Num One contender, Man, go do
Speaker 4: your thing. You know, I hate it, but it kind
Speaker 4: of is what it is. But I said, I like
Speaker 4: that segment a lot. And then I wanted to bring
Speaker 4: up we were talking to the you brought up Derek
Speaker 4: when Wade was having the issues about Charlotte and Jade.
Speaker 4: I mean, I've said this many times. I don't want
Speaker 4: to harp on it. I just everybody's gonna give Jade
Speaker 4: crap and it pisses me off. Charlotte is not good
Speaker 4: in the ring right now. I'm sorry, Like you cannot
Speaker 4: sit there and sit there and say Jade is bad.
Speaker 4: This match was bad because my friend, you know, who's
Speaker 4: been in the chat before, said, oh, Jade sucked tonight.
Speaker 4: I'm like, no, Charlotte sucked too tonight. She did stupid
Speaker 4: moves that she doesn't need to be doing. The natural
Speaker 4: selection sucks and she did it from the top rope.
Speaker 4: It looks terrible. It's gonna look terrible. Why are we
Speaker 4: doing that move? Like, do moves that makes sense in
Speaker 4: the midst of a match that I want to actually
Speaker 4: get behind. I want to get into it. I told
Speaker 4: you Wade, I like Jade. She's improved. To me, I
Speaker 4: think she's gotten better. Is she slow, Yes, she's very slow,
Speaker 4: but she's improved. She's gotten better. Charlotte, if it's not
Speaker 4: a main event match on WrestleMania, she stinks in the ring.
Speaker 4: I don't like any of her matches. When I'm just
Speaker 4: watching her in the ring, the kicks look bad. They
Speaker 4: show so much light. Could be both people, but it's
Speaker 4: I feel like Charlotte is a lot to blame for it.
Speaker 4: And you know, again here's my other thing too. So
Speaker 4: the finish happened, which again I'm still it still pisses
Speaker 4: me off because I just don't think they need all
Speaker 4: the interference when Jade doesn't need them to fight for
Speaker 4: her in any way, but that they're going to. They're
Speaker 4: her baddies I gotta fight for They obviously did it
Speaker 4: because they wanted to get Tadum Pasley and Alexa Bliss back. Okay, yes, reason,
Speaker 4: but I still don't like it. Don't do these kind
Speaker 4: of finishes. It takes you out of these matches and
Speaker 4: it's annoying. So that's a lot to harp on. But
Speaker 4: I just that was at that end to the show
Speaker 4: for me. But it's not just Jade people, it's Charlotte.
Speaker 4: She has a lot to do that I want to
Speaker 4: get on her for it.
Speaker 1: A couple of check comments, I'll throw it out. Derek
Speaker 1: for his assessment of this, Mark Basquetti says, Charlotte wrestles
Speaker 1: like she's afraid of getting injured. Maybe for good reason,
Speaker 1: especially against Jade, but really against other people who are
Speaker 1: different than Jade. We're there's a risk too. Adam Kidd
Speaker 1: goes I think Charlotte has lost her fastball. Derek, what
Speaker 1: are you seeing in Charlotte's in ring work? Yeah? What
Speaker 1: jumps out to you?
Speaker 2: She's not sure footed. That that would be the first
Speaker 2: thing I said, the first thing that comes to mind.
Speaker 2: And it seems to be a confidence issue too with
Speaker 2: depending on who she's in there with. But there was
Speaker 2: stutter steps on all the spots that didn't look right.
Speaker 2: There was the one and in that walk over, that handstand,
Speaker 2: walk over clothesline thing she does. Someone needs to tell
Speaker 2: her that that's just not a move that works in
Speaker 2: the way that you're doing it. You don't have to
Speaker 2: strip it from your arsenal. If you did it from
Speaker 2: the corner and gave somebody more space, you could probably
Speaker 2: hit it. But the way it is now, it's a
Speaker 2: bad timing move that it forces you to stutter step
Speaker 2: and forces the other person to stutter step, which loses
Speaker 2: the aura of athleticism that you used to present that
Speaker 2: you're no longer presenting. But even when she climbs up
Speaker 2: to the top rope, she just doesn't feel confident with
Speaker 2: her feet under her and about being afraid to be hurt.
Speaker 2: I see that too, where when she's doing the strike offs,
Speaker 2: she's asking the person to bring it, but then she's
Speaker 2: dipping her shoulder in front of her face so they
Speaker 2: can't make contact with her because she doesn't trust them.
Speaker 2: And that all makes the cadence of your strikeofs look
Speaker 2: bad as you're not opening yourself up to give somebody
Speaker 2: to hit. It's like, Sean, if you are going to
Speaker 2: forearm me through the screen right now, if I do this,
Speaker 2: you can't hit me. I need to give you this
Speaker 2: so you have something to hit. Otherwise you have a choice.
Speaker 2: You can either hit my shoulder that looks like crap,
Speaker 2: or you can hit me in the head and then
Speaker 2: it's gonna hurt me.
Speaker 1: Or as a former karate guy who sparred a lot,
Speaker 1: I'd score a point by using my left leg to
Speaker 1: run kick you in the chin because you're bending over
Speaker 1: and making yourself vulnerable for that.
Speaker 2: But it's that kind of stuff where a lot of
Speaker 2: and I'm not just gonna say it's Charlotte or Jade,
Speaker 2: I'm going to make a general statement a lot of
Speaker 2: the female wrestling has been really bad for the last
Speaker 2: two months, where there is definitely a major disconnect between
Speaker 2: what's going on in NXT where they're performing rehearsed matches
Speaker 2: and then they transfer over to the main roster, and
Speaker 2: I really think they need to sit down with their
Speaker 2: agents and they need to stop making things so damn complicated,
Speaker 2: because that match with Roxane Perez and Sol Ruka, which
Speaker 2: wasn't terrible, but I was watching spots and they were
Speaker 2: having like between two and three counters and reversals before
Speaker 2: anybody takes a bump. And if you screw up any
Speaker 2: of those counters and reversals before somebody takes the move,
Speaker 2: move loses all of its effect. Why are you doing
Speaker 2: things so complicated? Jade's best matches were against Rhea Ripley,
Speaker 2: where there was two or three complicated spots and a
Speaker 2: lot of it was just impact. They almost won the
Speaker 2: crowd with the one move that had impact tonight, which
Speaker 2: was the power bomb off the top rope. They hit
Speaker 2: the big power bomb off the top rope and fans
Speaker 2: were like, we're going to give you another chance to
Speaker 2: win us over, and then they did two or three
Speaker 2: other complicated things that didn't go well.
Speaker 1: Did you like the set up for that or did
Speaker 1: it cause it look like a struggle. It was a
Speaker 1: real struggle, but sometimes a real struggle can make it.
Speaker 1: The key is is not everything should go so smooth
Speaker 1: that it looks like a well rehearsed acrobatics exchange. But
Speaker 1: if it looks like you're struggling to set something up
Speaker 1: unnaturally in order to achieve something that looks choreographed, and
Speaker 1: that's a bad thing. And that's the category I thought.
Speaker 3: This was it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And so the way it was taught to me
Speaker 2: that I think is important is everything you do in
Speaker 2: a transition should look like a move that you're going
Speaker 2: that gets countered, and you have to frame all of it.
Speaker 2: So she's going for her trist stratus hurricane ran or
Speaker 2: the stratus whatever it was called, the leg scissors thing.
Speaker 2: She goes for that move. You should see that she's
Speaker 2: trying to go for that move. You can see that
Speaker 2: Jade blocks it, and Jade gives the look that I
Speaker 2: just blocked it. And then Jade needs to hoist her up,
Speaker 2: not Charlotte do a do a sit up. Because Jade
Speaker 2: hooks her up like she's going to power bomber. Charlotte
Speaker 2: acts like she's gonna do a hurricane rada, and then
Speaker 2: she power bombs her. That's what we should have should
Speaker 2: have seen instead of this thing where it was, I'm
Speaker 2: gonna throw you my legs. I'm gonna grab him. You're
Speaker 2: slowly gonna do a sit up onto me. I'm gonna
Speaker 2: make sure that I got you stand up slowly and
Speaker 2: power bomb you. So you need to frame all of
Speaker 2: those counters for them to actually come across to the
Speaker 2: audience as counters.
Speaker 1: What stood out to me as Charlotte went for the
Speaker 1: leg scissors and the look on Jade's face is like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, her legs might not grip my head properly.
Speaker 1: Let me pull her leg up so that it can
Speaker 1: get a proper position, so that I can look like
Speaker 1: she's doing the move, so that when I counter it,
Speaker 1: it'll have a flow to it. And all of that
Speaker 1: like to me conveyed in her face like a panic
Speaker 1: that her leg's not where it needs me. So let
Speaker 1: me lift her leg up and put it in position
Speaker 1: to set up a move that now I'm going to counter.
Speaker 1: And I don't you know, I don't know where it was.
Speaker 2: Yes, exactly, And there's if that was your move, there's
Speaker 2: there's such an easier way to get up for it.
Speaker 2: Have Charlotte go up for a upro perk and run
Speaker 2: to jump on her shoulders, catcher and power bomber. You
Speaker 2: don't need all those other things.
Speaker 1: Yep, I simplify as it's a really good I would
Speaker 1: a lot of wrestlers, which is just be simplify some
Speaker 1: check comments here on this Sean that will throw to you.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I finally grew Sean. Charlotte is really
Speaker 1: not good in the ranks, says Chris Rucker. Uhell good
Speaker 1: good Fellow says, I really like this Jade Flair match. Damn,
Speaker 1: I didn't always in the minority point. Do you feel
Speaker 1: like a fool good Fella after all that?
Speaker 3: Wow?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 2: And uh for good Fellow. In Goodfella's defense, there was
Speaker 2: parts there was There was probably two or three parts
Speaker 2: on the match where I started feeling like, Okay, they
Speaker 2: found their stride. Yeah, they found their stride. And I
Speaker 2: filled out a lot with matches where it might be
Speaker 2: shaky in different places. But as long as they find
Speaker 2: their stride, especially after the commercial break, if you if
Speaker 2: you hit the landing, I'll call it a good match,
Speaker 2: especially if it told the right story and it accomplished
Speaker 2: its goal. They didn't stick the landing which made the
Speaker 2: story fall flat.
Speaker 1: Yep. Jacon Scooby said, Charlotte wrestles like she lost her confidence. Yeah,
Speaker 1: another variation on what we've been saying. Mister Rock City
Speaker 1: eighty six says, everything Charlotte does from the top rope
Speaker 1: looks terrible. Proved me wrong. Lol. Adam kids say Charlotte
Speaker 1: has to carry her in that match as a veteran,
Speaker 1: and she failed. Father of pizzays Jade is improving, but
Speaker 1: at what rate? That's fair? Rude Dog says, I feel
Speaker 1: like Charlotte's body type isn't doing her any favors. She
Speaker 1: just seems kind of skinny and fragile.
Speaker 4: She does look skinnier, I mean just you know, not
Speaker 4: you know, in a in a good way in normal life,
Speaker 4: but in wrestling. I don't know if that's good for
Speaker 4: her her body type. Yeah, that's that's fair.
Speaker 2: And it sounds mean. But I'll even say this. I'll
Speaker 2: even say this, when I wrestled, when I would drop
Speaker 2: below ten percent body fat, that is always when I
Speaker 2: tore my bicep. Muscle wrestling, it's your your body needs
Speaker 2: fat on it to be more hearty. And I do
Speaker 2: think some of these females like it might even be
Speaker 2: Ria Ripley's why she got a recent injury. You don't
Speaker 2: have as much patty, you don't have as much padding
Speaker 2: on you, more susceptible to injury.
Speaker 4: That's a good point.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's why we're like people complimenting Finn Balor being
Speaker 1: in the best shape of his life right now. Derek,
Speaker 1: I think he looks like he needs some body fat.
Speaker 1: That looks at like an unhealthy a cut.
Speaker 2: Yeah. In his defense though, because he's got smaller muscle bodies,
Speaker 2: I'm not I'm not afraid of him ripping them off,
Speaker 2: like as soon as like Triple H got really jacked.
Speaker 2: It's just a matter of time, and it's natural.
Speaker 1: Batista all these injuries, Yeah.
Speaker 2: Exactly, like nobody ever should tear their lad off their body.
Speaker 2: Batista tore both of his lats because he had huge
Speaker 2: lads and no body fat to keep them in blaze.
Speaker 2: So I think Balor's actually in a better place because
Speaker 2: he doesn't have massive muscle bodies, which puts a massive
Speaker 2: strain on your tendons.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I just I even saying it's a higher risk aside.
Speaker 1: I think Finn Balor looks dehydrated, emaciated, but muscular underneath,
Speaker 1: but like I kind of want like some body fat
Speaker 1: like it. It feels like it's unnaturally transparent just to
Speaker 1: the muscles. Like I don't know, I don't think this
Speaker 1: is the best look for him, but I mean it's
Speaker 1: it's it's subjective, but it's like I a little body
Speaker 1: fat on Finn balor is Is. I think looks more
Speaker 1: athletic and less I cut for a bodybuilding competition.
Speaker 2: To each to each their own, but I know I
Speaker 2: don't even diet down that severe anymore ever, because I
Speaker 2: don't feel like my mental acuity, my my my dura ability.
Speaker 2: I know his compromise when I get too lean.
Speaker 1: Yeah yep, Celevision three. So Charlotte's like the Eli Manning
Speaker 1: of wrestling, great in big matches and has a huge
Speaker 1: name recognition, but week to week normal matches are mediocre,
Speaker 1: too bad yep. Good Fellow says suplexes herd punches high
Speaker 1: MPEx spot from Jade. I liked it tonight, so that's
Speaker 1: a good fella liked about it, mister rock City. He says,
Speaker 1: Charlotte can't bring a below average wrestler up to a
Speaker 1: good match. He's not a good leader in that sense.
Speaker 1: She needs someone on her level or better to have
Speaker 1: a standout match. I think that's true.
Speaker 2: Yes, I think that's fair too. I think that's fair.
Speaker 1: Yep. Jacon Scooby says Charlotte didn't even lock her figure
Speaker 1: four leg lock on. Yeah, it's like Miz not knowing that.
Speaker 1: I'd never forgive him for that. But like I could
Speaker 1: do a figure for a leglock on my friends when
Speaker 1: I was thirteen. It's not hard like I mean, it's just.
Speaker 2: Practice. You got to say, though. We were practicing a
Speaker 2: lot to the very young age on how to apply
Speaker 2: those sorts.
Speaker 1: But if it's my finisher, I like I would practically,
Speaker 1: I would, I would find people to practice that. Chris
Speaker 1: Ruckers twenty three forty two says that figure four is awful.
Speaker 1: How do you not know how to do your own finisher? Well, yeah, true,
Speaker 1: I know, Pather be Goles, I'm en tired to show
Speaker 1: it for a while now. Then Derek Mitchell a super chat.
Speaker 1: Thank you Derek, Thank you Sean As I feel there's
Speaker 1: a segment of people, no matter what Jade does, think
Speaker 1: she can't do anything right. And I think Jade has
Speaker 1: gotten better.
Speaker 2: I think I don't think the agents do her any favors,
Speaker 2: to be honest, like they make her matches more complicated,
Speaker 2: and it doesn't have to be. Like brock Lesner is
Speaker 2: a great example. And because I was, I'm writing an
Speaker 2: article for my next column. Wait, we'll be on brock Lesner.
Speaker 2: And the thing I admire about brock Lesner is the
Speaker 2: simplicity of his matches. He never messes up a spot
Speaker 2: because he doesn't do spots. Why does Jade need to
Speaker 2: do complicated spots. She looks like she carries a punch
Speaker 2: and packs impact. Let her carry a punch and pack impact.
Speaker 2: That's when she's effective.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I mean Jamee's best match, which is weird
Speaker 4: to say. It hurts me to say in a weird way,
Speaker 4: it was against Naomi. Her best matches were against Naomi.
Speaker 2: In my I liked her matches against Rhea.
Speaker 4: Yeah, no, in Ria too, you said, Ria, that's why
Speaker 4: it's brought a different one. But but and Ria has
Speaker 4: lost a lot of weight. You're right, I mean, that's
Speaker 4: a good point she has.
Speaker 3: She looked.
Speaker 4: I was looking her and Io were together. I was like,
Speaker 4: oh my gosh, she really does look like she's and
Speaker 4: it's you know, it's okay. And like I, you know,
Speaker 4: to want to lose weight, but in wrestling it does
Speaker 4: hurt a little bit in the way you're trying to
Speaker 4: come across as a bad ass. Like, it does hurt
Speaker 4: a little bit, But.
Speaker 2: I think it makes you more Like they said, I
Speaker 2: think it makes you more fragile, and you don't find out.
Speaker 2: It's like being injury poem prone. Never nobody knows their
Speaker 2: injury prone until they start getting injured.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's a great way to put it.
Speaker 1: It is a it is a lesson learned the hard way.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah. I like did some like seven straight days
Speaker 1: of trail running this summer earlier summer, and I hadn't
Speaker 1: jogged for like ever, like a long time. I've been
Speaker 1: biking and in pickleball, like the when I first sart
Speaker 1: playing pickball for years ago, I had all I couldn't
Speaker 1: get out of the car after a drove home, like
Speaker 1: I I like people, if neighbor saw me getting out
Speaker 1: of the car to playing pickleball for like two hours,
Speaker 1: I'd think was he in a car rerecord? Like I mean,
Speaker 1: it was not pretty, and I'd go ice my my
Speaker 1: feet and my knee, especially my feet. So I trail
Speaker 1: ran like seven or eight days of my dog did
Speaker 1: two miles to rail runs. I paused like I was
Speaker 1: watching my heart rate and overdo it, so it's gonna
Speaker 1: like collapse in the heat. But I could not walk
Speaker 1: upstairs for like three weeks, like it's couldn't I should
Speaker 1: have taken two days off in between, because I was
Speaker 1: I got into it too quickly, and but I probably
Speaker 1: I probably could have gotten away with it into my
Speaker 1: twenties when I was in karate in my twenties, I
Speaker 1: always had ailments then too. It's just natural if you
Speaker 1: overextend yourself and so but I was like, okay, testament
Speaker 1: to this. You don't know how entry prone you are
Speaker 1: until you do something that feels good doing it, and
Speaker 1: then a week you know it was about four day
Speaker 1: delay and suddenly my niece have never hurt like that,
Speaker 1: And I was like, okay, I gotta be smarter about this.
Speaker 2: In the show A wrestling perspective, when I was indie wrestling,
Speaker 2: there was three different occasions where I took a few
Speaker 2: months off. Once to finish up my degree. I didn't
Speaker 2: wrestle for about eighteen months. And the thing that surprised
Speaker 2: me when I got back in there and started training
Speaker 2: is over time, I had hit the rope so many
Speaker 2: times where I had this callous on my lap and
Speaker 2: to the point where running the ropes didn't feel like anything.
Speaker 2: My first day back running the ropes, doing just basic
Speaker 2: running the ropes drills, I have these terrible bruises right
Speaker 2: above my armpit. Yeah, and I peed blood for like
Speaker 2: two days. And that was because that callous was gone.
Speaker 2: And running the ropes, which doesn't hurt when you're doing
Speaker 2: it all the time, but boy, do you find out
Speaker 2: what that does to you when you don't do it. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, a couple of ore comments on the shot, and
Speaker 1: I'll throw to you for anything you want to say.
Speaker 1: In response to our convo here, jac Scooby says, Charlotte
Speaker 1: Jade feud needs to end like yesterday. Uh, mister rock
Speaker 1: City says, the walk over, handstand, clothes line, the moons
Speaker 1: off from the top to the outside, natural selection, They're
Speaker 1: all moves. Charlotte needs to drop. Do they not watch
Speaker 1: their matches back or do they just think look at
Speaker 1: the acrobaticness of it as opposed to the believability of it.
Speaker 2: So I mentioned this way when I was talking to
Speaker 2: Greg Parks on Saturday for SummerSlam. But I finally watched
Speaker 2: WWE unreal, I hadn't watched any of the seasons, but
Speaker 2: I finally watched it. Yeah, and because I met my
Speaker 2: parents' house with nothing to do while they're in Scotland,
Speaker 2: and uh so I really enjoyed the show. But the
Speaker 2: one thing that if there was anything that bugged me,
Speaker 2: it's not the comments that get taken out of context
Speaker 2: and put online to piss people off. That stuff is
Speaker 2: silly to me, But it was how congratulatory they are
Speaker 2: to each other every time they come back from the back.
Speaker 2: And I know it's a show, so they might not
Speaker 2: be showing those hard conversations. But a lot of the
Speaker 2: matches that to me didn't go well, where if I
Speaker 2: was a compet in that match and I came back,
Speaker 2: I would be pissed off and I would not want
Speaker 2: my boss to say tell me that was great, because
Speaker 2: I know it wasn't. Like A good example was like
Speaker 2: Randy Orton and Cody Roase, They're like, yeah, it was great,
Speaker 2: it was this and that I'm like, no, youre WrestleMania
Speaker 2: match was bad and someone needs to tell you that
Speaker 2: it was bad. Like the fans didn't resonate with your story.
Speaker 2: It was slow, it was plotting, it didn't resonate with people,
Speaker 2: and you got a bad crowd response. But the fact
Speaker 2: of how congratulatory they are to everybody, and especially with
Speaker 2: younger competitors. I mean, you don't have to tell someone
Speaker 2: they suck and everything they did suck and tear them
Speaker 2: down and they should never rustle again for their life.
Speaker 2: But constructive criticism from the right voice needs to be
Speaker 2: happening all the time if you expect people to improve.
Speaker 2: And I hope we are only seeing a glimpse of
Speaker 2: unreal that's not showing those conversations. But I worry those
Speaker 2: hard conversations with people like Charlotte, who to them is
Speaker 2: a veteran, are not happening. Happening because they know that
Speaker 2: she's emotionally fragile. No, if you're gonna put it on
Speaker 2: TV and it looks bad, someone needs to tell you
Speaker 2: it looks bad. And a lot of her offense it
Speaker 2: looks bad.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I was thinking when when she they did her
Speaker 1: arrival shot and there two three guys in the back
Speaker 1: just started bowing to her, and I was like, you know,
Speaker 1: you just you're around long enough, yeah, Ron, long enough,
Speaker 1: you have like these big matches, and then people just
Speaker 1: start like sort of worshiping like what your character is
Speaker 1: supposed to be, and you can kind of lose sight
Speaker 1: of there's things you still need to improve upon her.
Speaker 1: There are things that you were barely passibly before and
Speaker 1: now they're not and no one's telling you the truth anymore.
Speaker 1: And plus once you put a camera on something like
Speaker 1: this back after the match, backstage, congratulations, it's not real anymore.
Speaker 1: Like that's what people said about MTV the first like
Speaker 1: live in you know camera of twenty four r will
Speaker 1: edit into a reality show type thing, is you know, yes?
Speaker 1: What was their catchphrase? You know, things start to get
Speaker 1: real after a while whatever. I can't remember the catchrase.
Speaker 1: But when a camera is there, it's never real. Like
Speaker 1: people are always in the back of their mind, no
Speaker 1: matter how much it becomes invisible and kind of just
Speaker 1: wallpaper on the wall. You know, you're representing something that
Speaker 1: could be edited and put out there that will define
Speaker 1: you in the public. Guy, you're gonna change as yelling
Speaker 1: my dog earlier like and I'm like, I'm like, oh
Speaker 1: my god, I hope the neighbor can't hear yell because
Speaker 1: they're gonna thak, I'm crazy, you know, but you know
Speaker 1: you get friend. So but if I had a camera
Speaker 1: on me for reality show, I'd walked up to him
Speaker 1: and I would have had a com talk with him
Speaker 1: instead of telling him like stop it. So, you know,
Speaker 1: like cameras changed who we are, and so when a
Speaker 1: camera is present, they're like Paula X's oh there's camera.
Speaker 1: Though I'm going to be the uncle who says good
Speaker 1: match to everybody because I'm a good, positive guy. But
Speaker 1: if the camera wasn't there and there weren't other people
Speaker 1: be like, oh, let's let's go talk, you know, or
Speaker 1: if it's ally night, you just do it anyway.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well and two like like I'm a I'm a
Speaker 2: high school teacher. Is my job, and so constructive criticism
Speaker 2: is what I have to give students, and a lot
Speaker 2: of times I think of it as in their writing,
Speaker 2: where that's where I see the biggest range from kids
Speaker 2: where some are really good and so are really struggling.
Speaker 2: But my students who are really struggling, I always want
Speaker 2: to say something good before I give them the constructive
Speaker 2: criticism because it starts the conversation off where oh, well,
Speaker 2: he thought this was a good idea, but now I
Speaker 2: need to fix these things. And there's probably a lot
Speaker 2: of I mean, we look at all these people as adults,
Speaker 2: but adults, adults take criticism worse than kids a lot
Speaker 2: of times, you know. But I hope they have trust
Speaker 2: in their agents and producers where I hope right now
Speaker 2: they're talking to Charlotte and Jade and saying, this is
Speaker 2: what you should have done. This was wrong, this was
Speaker 2: not done. Well, why did you do this? We shouldn't
Speaker 2: have decided to do that, because that's how you get better.
Speaker 1: Yeah, before pushing play on the way Keller Pro Wrestling
Speaker 1: post shows, check out pw torch dot com and our
Speaker 1: TV review section and skim through a full rundown of
Speaker 1: the TV show if you didn't see it, that's your
Speaker 1: way to get an overview of what happened before you
Speaker 1: dive into our in depth analysis of the key happening
Speaker 1: on the show. That's pw torch dot com. You're home
Speaker 1: for live TV coverage every Monday, Wednesday and Friday with
Speaker 1: my TV Reports, and also check out our NXT and
Speaker 1: Impact coverage on Tuesdays and Thursdays our Collision Reports on
Speaker 1: Saturday nights and of course our live pay per view
Speaker 1: and PLEE coverage on weekends, all waiting for you at
Speaker 1: PW Torch dot com. H Sadler's goes. I've been saying
Speaker 1: for months women's division on the main roster has been
Speaker 1: awful in the ring. And Derek, I hope what you
Speaker 1: just said is true. I hope I like it. I mean,
Speaker 1: just out of fairness of soul, Ruka cent her away
Speaker 1: until she gets better, Like everything's wrong about what she's
Speaker 1: doing in the ring, and it's it's not it's not transferring. Well,
Speaker 1: mister rock City says, I believe the setup looks so
Speaker 1: choreograph because Charlotte never actually does that move that's part
Speaker 1: of it. In the corner spot setting up the part
Speaker 1: part on the corner. Yes, uh, Jade appeared to hold
Speaker 1: her wig. I don't know did did did that happen?
Speaker 1: Derell says. In Charlotte came back from her knee injury
Speaker 1: and have been wearing that knee break. She has been
Speaker 1: unsure and especially with her changing her body to be
Speaker 1: smaller and slimmer, and I will say, I mean, if
Speaker 1: we stipulate to the fact that it can make your
Speaker 1: matches suck if she literally is going, I don't want
Speaker 1: to go through another your rehab, yeah, you know, And
Speaker 1: so I'm gonna people bow when I walk in the building.
Speaker 1: I'm a legend, I'm a flair. I got my signature moves.
Speaker 1: Nobody hears all that good anymore, you know, Like I
Speaker 1: mean not some people are better than good, but there's
Speaker 1: a lot of people aren't good here getting TV time.
Speaker 1: I just I don't want to go through I mean,
Speaker 1: Robert Smith on this little Vikings running back when the
Speaker 1: Bikers are having their great fifteen one season back in
Speaker 1: the late nineties, he had like multipleknee injuries. We can
Speaker 1: get tackled out of bounds and his knee, but pop,
Speaker 1: finally he could have gotten another He could have gone
Speaker 1: through your rehab after his last kne injury and played
Speaker 1: three more years and made a lot more money. He's like,
Speaker 1: I'm done, Like, I don't want to risk any injury.
Speaker 1: I want to be able to walk when I'm in
Speaker 1: my fifties and sixties, and it's I have enough money
Speaker 1: to be happy enough. I don't want to risk another
Speaker 1: knee injury there. But that's football. But Charlotte doesn't have
Speaker 1: to make that choice.
Speaker 3: She can go.
Speaker 1: I just won't do those moves that put me at risk.
Speaker 1: I will be more careful than what I do now.
Speaker 1: You can still get injured. But I think that might
Speaker 1: We don't know, but that might be the mindset, Derek.
Speaker 2: Well, and I think you just touched it. Wade. Is
Speaker 2: instead of doing the old moves that you used to
Speaker 2: do and not doing them as well, or doing them
Speaker 2: in a way that looks cautious and safe and hence
Speaker 2: not part of competition, have the courage to try something
Speaker 2: new and do do the things you can do better.
Speaker 1: Yep, yep, yeah, absolutely. I mean there are things Chris
Speaker 1: Jericho can't do, but he can do a Judas effect
Speaker 1: because it's just spinning around with your elbow in the air,
Speaker 1: you know, Like I mean you you introduce Ricky Steamboa
Speaker 1: used to cross body and then he said, no, I'm
Speaker 1: going to do a chop to the I'm gonna jump
Speaker 1: on top rope and to a chop to the head.
Speaker 2: And for Charlotte, I just be like, stop jumping off
Speaker 2: the top rope, start throwing better sup plexes. Yep, and
Speaker 2: I'll give you and work on your work on your chops.
Speaker 2: To where instead of you know, like chest taps the look,
Speaker 2: they look like they have impact and that can absolutely.
Speaker 1: Or don't do the move your dad did if because
Speaker 1: in the crowd goes, we just get them engaged in
Speaker 1: a different way. Adam Kid says, ask any bodybuilder single
Speaker 1: digit body fat is unhealthy for any reasons. This goes
Speaker 1: back to a Fin Ballar conversation. Good Fella says, Fin
Speaker 1: Baller looks healthy to me.
Speaker 2: Looks amazing. I don't know if it's healthy.
Speaker 1: Yes, yep, that's what pother repeat says, Finn looks amazing.
Speaker 1: Chris Rucker goes, My girlfriend thinks Finn Baller looks just
Speaker 1: fine whatever that means. But Staturady Debation says Fin looks
Speaker 1: unnatural to me. And by the way, if you if
Speaker 1: Chris Rucker didn't know, Crafton says, it means she likes him. Adam, Uh,
Speaker 1: you need fat for your for your brain as well
Speaker 1: as hormone balance.
Speaker 2: So uh and wait, if it makes you feel better
Speaker 2: about Finn Balor's physic I just listened to a podcast
Speaker 2: with him and why he probably looks more ripped now
Speaker 2: surprisingly is he just reintroduced carbs into his diet. So
Speaker 2: he was like a keto guy who wasn't eating any
Speaker 2: carbs for so long. And if you're if you've conditioned
Speaker 2: your body like that and then you start introducing carbohydrates,
Speaker 2: then often your muscles actually pop a little more. And
Speaker 2: it looks like like his probably more because he's eating carbohydrates.
Speaker 1: Wow, okay, body, I heed his weird things with when
Speaker 1: you go one direction and and change up, Yeah, you
Speaker 1: can have almost a counterintuitive effect at first at least. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So Sean, go ahead.
Speaker 4: I've been Chris brought up something else that I I
Speaker 4: disagree in the sense of he brought up I would
Speaker 4: I wanted. I wish they would have had the Charlotte
Speaker 4: Jade matches SummerSlam. Not me, Chris, Sorry, buddy, imagine that
Speaker 4: match being a Summer Slam. Oh God, bless America. That
Speaker 4: would have been bad. And I know, I mean, I'd
Speaker 4: rather have it on this show than have it on
Speaker 4: a Summer Slam. I mean, yes, it's a SummerSlam tight
Speaker 4: match of two stars. I get what he's saying. But
Speaker 4: after watching the match tonight, no, I'm so glad it
Speaker 4: was not on Summer Slam. I'm thankful that it wasn't.
Speaker 4: But Alexa. Another thing I didn't like is Alexa bringing
Speaker 4: out the stupid Lily doll. Oh my god, I thought
Speaker 4: we were past that too. I really thought that was over.
Speaker 4: And I know Tatum came back and that's part of what,
Speaker 4: but I was just like, man, I don't need that Lily.
Speaker 4: I know it's merged. I know they make a lot
Speaker 4: of money. I get it, but I don't need Alexa
Speaker 4: with the Lily. Though I like Alexa, I don't like Lily. Geeesh.
Speaker 1: Stop. But the last thing I was going to bring
Speaker 1: up before I transition, here's a comment worth talking about.
Speaker 1: Chris Rucker goes, I do feel annoyed they wasted the
Speaker 1: first Charlotte Jade one on one match on a random SmackDown.
Speaker 1: If you're building it for nearly a damn y're are
Speaker 1: we missing the big story here? We're talking about a
Speaker 1: move or whatever, Like why is this on a random SmackDown?
Speaker 2: So I'll introduce an idea why it might have been?
Speaker 1: Yeah, is you you.
Speaker 2: Show a match that gives people like a taste of
Speaker 2: what it could look like with an inconclusive finish, where
Speaker 2: you feel that people will get excited enough about it
Speaker 2: the next time it comes around, they want to see
Speaker 2: it again. Unfortunately, because the output was not what they
Speaker 2: had hoped. This doesn't make anybody want to see the
Speaker 2: match on a bigger steak again.
Speaker 1: And I am I'm putting this on a pedestal. It
Speaker 1: doesn't belong on, but it is. I think it's still
Speaker 1: appropriate for the sake of the analogy. They did not
Speaker 1: put hll COGD against Ultiate or against each other on
Speaker 1: TV so ever, this time with an inconclusive finish to
Speaker 1: get tease people for their Wrestlemanium match. Like, I think
Speaker 1: that's what Chris Rocker's getting at that this isn't just
Speaker 1: another match. This is a match that if WWE like said,
Speaker 1: this is special, think about Charlotte's stature, think about Jade's
Speaker 1: or the egos the like I mean, just like sel
Speaker 1: the first time the bell rings in these tour opposite
Speaker 1: is seen a rock like make it that and it's
Speaker 1: it should have been summertimes. They were willing to do
Speaker 1: this match six days later. There shouldn't have been a
Speaker 1: ladder match that that's just been a showcase match at
Speaker 1: Summer Simon. Instead, if if the ideas, we need to
Speaker 1: get to it quickly and then do a conclusive finish.
Speaker 1: I that's that's what sucks, is they got they painted
Speaker 1: themselves into this corner that they feel like can't do
Speaker 1: clean finishes because that's the end of it. It's like
Speaker 1: it doesn't have to be. You know, best of seven
Speaker 1: series in the NBA do not end after one game.
Speaker 1: Nobody goes, oh, it's over after it's one zero or
Speaker 1: even two zero, like it's okay, Like no, it's a
Speaker 1: seven game series for a reason. Jay can beat Charlotte clean,
Speaker 1: and that becomes a sports story. What happened? How did
Speaker 1: it happen? Can it be repeated? Was it a fluke?
Speaker 1: Did Charlotte have a mindset here? Like there are sports
Speaker 1: stories to tell, but you have to do clean finishes,
Speaker 1: not run ends constantly in distraction finishes, tell sports stories.
Speaker 1: And they could have done that here anyway.
Speaker 4: And Charlotte's character, and that's why I wanted to go
Speaker 4: back to Really Fast is Charlotte's I appreciate what they've
Speaker 4: done to make her characters seem a little more interesting.
Speaker 4: I've liked that part of it, like they made the
Speaker 4: fans have gotten behind her and that no granted that
Speaker 4: she was a star. They technically did, but they were
Speaker 4: not getting behind her, and when the Reea stuff happened,
Speaker 4: they were not. They wanted a boo her and so
Speaker 4: now they're behind her. They cheer her and that's cool.
Speaker 4: So I like that, But I want her to be
Speaker 4: more confident in what she's doing too. If she's gonna
Speaker 4: be in the ring, be more confident what you're doing,
Speaker 4: have trust, and that it's gonna all work out.
Speaker 1: Root Doog says, By the way, I think the dollar's
Speaker 1: just brought back because of Paxley and her doll obsession.
Speaker 1: I think so too. They need to in truce that
Speaker 1: and SmackDown Cannon. You know, yeah, there's.
Speaker 2: People, there's time before there's no.
Speaker 1: I'm not being critical. I'm just saying they need to Yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah, right, no. True. The last topic I was going
Speaker 4: to bring up, and I was curious what you guys
Speaker 4: thought about it was, you know, going to the Tag
Speaker 4: Team and Fatal Influence again. I love what Fatal Influence
Speaker 4: is doing. I like them a lot. I liked again
Speaker 4: Jay C's on the mic was so good tonight. I
Speaker 4: is a you just want to do the heck out
Speaker 4: of her. It's awesome. I love it. And then the
Speaker 4: match was what it was. Of course, I'm not gonna
Speaker 4: you know. It was not the greatest, but it was.
Speaker 1: It was.
Speaker 3: It was.
Speaker 4: I mean, it was passable, but it was just that's
Speaker 4: what it was. I I think Chelsea. I love that
Speaker 4: she got her moment at at SummerSlam. I thought it
Speaker 4: was a cool moment. I was totally good with it.
Speaker 4: I thought it was the right move. But I don't
Speaker 4: need Chelsea to have a long rain. That's not what
Speaker 4: she's there for. I think she's there to have Tiffany
Speaker 4: them Tiffany's I think it's gonna lose to jac Jan
Speaker 4: Jacon needs to win the US title. I think that's
Speaker 4: a good start for her to start on the main roster,
Speaker 4: get a one A mid car title and build that up,
Speaker 4: and then I think Tiffany again should turn on Chelsea.
Speaker 4: I think Tiffany should turn She needs to be a
Speaker 4: heeled badly, badly, and I think it's gonna help people
Speaker 4: get behind Chelsea in that way. She might she'll lose
Speaker 4: the title, I think the Tiffany, but I think it's
Speaker 4: okay because Tiffany I could have her with a title
Speaker 4: as a heel because it fits into her character and
Speaker 4: then when Ria gets back, that's fine. I don't like
Speaker 4: title switches like that, but I think that's a good
Speaker 4: way to do it because I think Chelsea got her moment,
Speaker 4: but she's not ready to be a long term champion
Speaker 4: right now. She's not there yet. She can get there
Speaker 4: maybe down the road. I'm not saying it's not impossible,
Speaker 4: but Tiffany needs to turn heel and that's how you
Speaker 4: would get there. But I wanted you to think of
Speaker 4: what they've done with fatal influence Chelsea, all that, just
Speaker 4: going into that whole stuff.
Speaker 1: Go ahead, Derek.
Speaker 2: So my I thought the match was fine. My only
Speaker 2: misgiving about the match was in the planning, and that
Speaker 2: is if I think we all all know that Tiffany's
Speaker 2: a lot more likely to turn on Chelsea than Chelsea's
Speaker 2: going to turn on Tiffany, right, And so then I
Speaker 2: was like, well, why is Chelsea taking the heat and
Speaker 2: why was the hot tag and all the shine spots
Speaker 2: given to Tiffany, And also why does Chelsea take the loss?
Speaker 2: Because I think I know a lot of people support
Speaker 2: Chelsea being champion. I'm not one of them because I
Speaker 2: think she's a valuable character on television. I don't like
Speaker 2: her as a credible champion because just that she lacks credibility.
Speaker 2: But if you're going to fix that, first of all,
Speaker 2: her ringwork needs to be better to prove credibility, but
Speaker 2: also the way that matches are set up can help
Speaker 2: her build credibility. And giving her the hot tag and
Speaker 2: have all her nice moves and then tagging into Tiffany
Speaker 2: and having Tiffany take the fall. First of all, that
Speaker 2: serves the purpose of Chelsea getting the shine right, and
Speaker 2: then also it takes it where Tiffany's the one taking
Speaker 2: a loss who doesn't need to be protected. She's the
Speaker 2: one who's gonna turn on Chelsea anyways. So the way
Speaker 2: that was set up was confusing to me counter counterintuitive too.
Speaker 2: If you know that Chelsea is the one that the
Speaker 2: fans supports, why not have her build up to the
Speaker 2: hot tag to her and let her shine because that's
Speaker 2: what he wants.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and the theory is sad. I think the story
Speaker 1: is going to be that Chelsea's a week champion, so
Speaker 1: that there's a huge target on her back, and I
Speaker 1: don't mind that it's a unique story. So they're they're
Speaker 1: they're deciding to portray Chelsea as weak as a fluke
Speaker 1: interim champion, and maybe that turns into something I don't know,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm I don't I don't know. I don't
Speaker 1: have a vision for how to see it through. But
Speaker 1: it doesn't make sense otherwise, you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: Like that, that seems like that. That is whether it
Speaker 1: is a good decision that makes sense in a few
Speaker 1: weeks or not. I think that might be why, because
Speaker 1: otherwise you're right there, why would you do it? Durelsea's
Speaker 1: Tiffany needs to be a heal but she used to
Speaker 1: before from any title because she needs to come back
Speaker 1: from how bad she's been as a wrestling character.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean a hill could fix that though, Yeah,
Speaker 4: oh absolutely absolutely.
Speaker 2: And I'm interested, Like I think most people would agree,
Speaker 2: Tiffany has been a feled babyface. She was floundering, and
Speaker 2: now it went from she was a floundering babyface to
Speaker 2: now I would say that she's a failure as a babyface.
Speaker 2: But the Hill run might be the thing that reinvigorates her.
Speaker 2: And if you put her against Chelsea, that's like the
Speaker 2: perfect combination to give her real heat. Is if she
Speaker 2: turns on Chelsea, she's turning on her friend and then
Speaker 2: all of those characteristics of her that kind of get
Speaker 2: people not to like her. They are just going to
Speaker 2: have a flashlight shined on them and they're going to
Speaker 2: be highlighted with glitter. I mean, it's going to be
Speaker 2: hard to ignore, and I think that may be the
Speaker 2: best thing for it. It might reinvigorate a wrestling ability too,
Speaker 2: because wrestling is a heel is a lot different as
Speaker 2: wrestling a baby.
Speaker 4: Wait, can I ask a question too? When they were
Speaker 4: when Tiffany was kind of giving her not giving her
Speaker 4: the light at the time of day, did I miss something?
Speaker 4: Because they did all of a sudden become friends very quickly,
Speaker 4: Like did I miss like where Tiffany really decided, Hey,
Speaker 4: I want to be friends with Chelsea, like in storyline,
Speaker 4: did I miss something along?
Speaker 1: I almost feel like you're you're asking a sarcastic joke
Speaker 1: question because you didn't miss You didn't miss anything. And
Speaker 1: you know, when Hobbyer was on, He's like I asked him.
Speaker 1: I said, I know, you just were catching up. So
Speaker 1: we watched like six shows in four days. Gosh, did
Speaker 1: you miss Was there something that I fast forwarded past
Speaker 1: or forgot about? He's like, nope, I watched.
Speaker 4: They should have told that story better. They should have
Speaker 4: done a bet.
Speaker 1: They skipped that chapter there. There were so uh the
Speaker 1: story tonight was Chelsea was very gracious to Tiffany and said,
Speaker 1: you know, you're a blonde bombshell of a best friend.
Speaker 1: Tiffany came out in green said for what happened, you
Speaker 1: know what happened, but our friendship is stronger. You know,
Speaker 1: just because I won, that doesn't have to be a problem.
Speaker 1: And she wanted to make a toast to a strong
Speaker 1: female friendships. And then that's when Tiffany said, I actually
Speaker 1: wanted to talk to you about something, and then fatal
Speaker 1: influence interrupted. So Tiffany is likely going to say I'm
Speaker 1: not at peace with it. I want a chance to
Speaker 1: beat you for this title. And now does Chelsea go,
Speaker 1: but I thought our friendship but you know, I don't know,
Speaker 1: like they have to maneuver that, navigate that in a
Speaker 1: way where they don't want to fight the headwinds. So
Speaker 1: Tiffany should be healed. Chelsea the babyface. So what is
Speaker 1: Tiffany gonna say and how is she going to say
Speaker 1: it so that fans don't think she has a good case,
Speaker 1: like Cody has a good case. She's going to remach
Speaker 1: against Punk and Punk's cool with it. How are they
Speaker 1: going to make the case that Tiffany's a heel for
Speaker 1: asking for it? And I don't know how they're gonna
Speaker 1: do it, but I think they clearly showed that's the
Speaker 1: direction they're going. And Fatal Influence interrupted before we could
Speaker 1: get what Tiffany wanted to ask her. Okay, Sean, go ahead, yeap,
Speaker 1: real quick.
Speaker 4: Now let's say I want to get off. I just
Speaker 4: want to say I'll get in the chat. I'll probably
Speaker 4: miss a little bit of time with you guys because
Speaker 4: I got I'm gonna be going on vacation next week,
Speaker 4: so I probably missed some shows, but it was just sad.
Speaker 4: But I'll keep up with them on YouTube. And but
Speaker 4: I love what you gotta go VI, I P I
Speaker 4: love It's already been like a few years since you've
Speaker 4: been on YouTube, which is crazy, by the way. I
Speaker 4: could not believe that when I went back and watching
Speaker 4: the videos, like, hold, wow, it's been that long. But yeah, Derek,
Speaker 4: appreciate you. Always fun being on with you guys, And
Speaker 4: I'll get back in the chat.
Speaker 1: I wanted Sean's reaction cut out.
Speaker 4: He hung up talking the show, talking the song, talk.
Speaker 1: It is there, it is, I found it? All right, cool,
Speaker 1: all right, Let's let's bring Durrell in and uh, and
Speaker 1: we'll after talk to We'll see if there's anything else
Speaker 1: we want to sneak in.
Speaker 3: Oh.
Speaker 1: Shut, but they're shut. I had no idea you were
Speaker 1: gonna do that, Sean. I tried having you not hang up.
Speaker 1: It's like, hold on, hold on, and you we're gone.
Speaker 1: All right. Oh it's a banger, A good fella. Yes,
Speaker 1: all right, Uh Darrell. Uh, we'll talk to Darrell and
Speaker 1: then Derek, you and I can see if there's any
Speaker 1: straight comments I want to make. Then we'll wrap up. Drew, welcome,
Speaker 1: good to talk here.
Speaker 7: How y'all, how y'all doing tonight? Enjoying the conversation as usual.
Speaker 1: Darrell, do you want a song?
Speaker 2: Nope?
Speaker 7: Really okay, okay, thank you though, but now I'm okay, Well.
Speaker 1: I can't say you might not get one. I'm not.
Speaker 1: I won't have anything to do with it. I'm just saying,
Speaker 1: now that she said you don't want it, someone's got
Speaker 1: to suspike Drrell. I'm going to make a song for him.
Speaker 1: All right, go ahead, what's on your mind?
Speaker 7: You get back to what I was just talking about,
Speaker 7: because this is a big part of what I want
Speaker 7: to talk about the reason why I said Tiffany should
Speaker 7: be far away from the title, and I agree she
Speaker 7: should be a heel, but the digression of her character
Speaker 7: as a whole head had taken down even her n
Speaker 7: ring work. Remember when she first came in, Her n
Speaker 7: ring work kept her while you were like, okay, they
Speaker 7: can keep her up there, even though at the time
Speaker 7: she was a heel.
Speaker 3: But her hell.
Speaker 7: Character and her face character seemed unrealistic because she's still
Speaker 7: talk in that same Barbie type of way, all the
Speaker 7: same stuff that people gave Charlotte for years.
Speaker 3: She was even worse than Charlotte.
Speaker 1: Why do you have to keep bringing that up?
Speaker 3: Yes, and.
Speaker 7: I think she needs to go away from that main
Speaker 7: have been seen because she's been there since she got
Speaker 7: there and be grassed.
Speaker 3: So she can figure out how she wants to present
Speaker 3: her character.
Speaker 7: Maybe look at how she present herself on Twitch when
Speaker 7: she's streaming and stuff like that. Something different just come around.
Speaker 7: As tonight Charlotte and Jaye might had a bad match altogether,
Speaker 7: but the earlier promo that Charlotte gave to me was
Speaker 7: the best promo I've ever seen her give on the
Speaker 7: main roster, and that's because of how genuine she feels
Speaker 7: now that people want to see her as a babyface
Speaker 7: chasing a heel or chasing a title or chasing whatever.
Speaker 7: And the things that she was saying before are now
Speaker 7: getting nowhere because she feels so genuine because of how
Speaker 7: she has.
Speaker 3: Been with Alexa Bliss.
Speaker 7: And I give a lot of that to how Alexa
Speaker 7: Bliss softened her up too. That's why, like they put
Speaker 7: Tatum Paton with it. When y'all hear me say that,
Speaker 7: do y'all agree? And I move on to something else,
Speaker 7: ask something else to this, I'll see all.
Speaker 2: I'm glad that you brought up Charlotte's promo because I
Speaker 2: felt the same thing. And then she did this, which
Speaker 2: is one of my favorite promo styles too. She builds
Speaker 2: up Jay, talks about how good she is or that
Speaker 2: she's special, and then she makes it personal and turns
Speaker 2: to the camera and then gives her partying line in
Speaker 2: a very effective manner like thirty second promo. That's what
Speaker 2: the teaching thirty second promo class. And so I thought
Speaker 2: that was great. As for Tiffany having to slide down
Speaker 2: the card if she makes the heel turn. Part of
Speaker 2: me agrees with you, Darryl, because I don't think she's
Speaker 2: earned a main event spot. But I think the heat
Speaker 2: when she turns on Chelsea could be so apparent that
Speaker 2: the momentum of it would deserve a main event spot.
Speaker 1: I would I I want her second from the top
Speaker 1: as a heel, but not the champion. I think there's
Speaker 1: I would. I would have the title be represented by
Speaker 1: somebody who's not in a grudge feud, who's not doing
Speaker 1: a kind of performative character heel, who can't back it
Speaker 1: up in other ways and rise the occasion too. Like
Speaker 1: whatever Tiffany does when she turns on Chelsea and is
Speaker 1: a heel, it's gonna make her character better because she's
Speaker 1: a natural heel. But I don't know that she's somebody
Speaker 1: that you want to be banking on to have those
Speaker 1: matches that a champion should have, And I think are
Speaker 1: just others who are better and I don't I mean,
Speaker 1: it's just I don't know. I mean, I'm hypocritical sayings,
Speaker 1: but I don't know if she deserves it like she
Speaker 1: just I'm waiting for a call from Hollywood. Like I
Speaker 1: don't give the title too Yeah, like invest in give
Speaker 1: the prestige of a tuititle run to somebody who's hungry
Speaker 1: and this is their this is their goal.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't have that view if I thought Tiffany would
Speaker 1: sell tickets like as champion compared to just being a
Speaker 1: second from the top heel. I think she makes as
Speaker 1: much money for deb to be in DRASA much as
Speaker 1: she's a snotty heel who fans take joy in seeing
Speaker 1: her not become champion, and she takes out her frustrations
Speaker 1: on others and acts, you know, like she is better
Speaker 1: than everybody, but she's not.
Speaker 8: Hey everyone, longtime PW Toeorge commist Sean raddickin here to
Speaker 8: let you know I've rebamped and renewed their Atticant Worldwide
Speaker 8: podcast for twenty twenty six, a weekly VIP exclusive. Every week,
Speaker 8: I break down four or five of the biggest trending
Speaker 8: topics in pro wrestling. I also present my analysis, providing
Speaker 8: insight that helps you understand the story better or see
Speaker 8: it another way. Then maybe is the controversial takeout there?
Speaker 8: Then I bring on a special guest for the second
Speaker 8: half of the podcast. Sometimes it's a wrestler or someone
Speaker 8: else who works in the business. Other times it's a
Speaker 8: guest analyst who brings their specialized point of view out
Speaker 8: a particular key topic in the news. Recent guests have
Speaker 8: included Bronson Reid from WWE and PCO. One of my
Speaker 8: areas of specialty is the Japan wrestling scene, so I
Speaker 8: often cover a big topic from Japan with PW Torch,
Speaker 8: his own, Alan Farrell, Kelly Wells, and Chris Lansdell. I
Speaker 8: don't just cover the news. I don't just riff on
Speaker 8: the news or give a standard hot take. I'll bring
Speaker 8: my decades of studying this industry and talking one on
Speaker 8: one with dozens of wrestling promoters to each week's show,
Speaker 8: so you understand not just what's happening, but the context
Speaker 8: of why get ahead of the news, get ahead of
Speaker 8: the pack with racking worldwide only at PW Torch VIP.
Speaker 2: And I think a positive aspect of Tiffany, I'll say
Speaker 2: is and this is in defense of her underperforming for
Speaker 2: the last year and a half. I don't think she's
Speaker 2: got very good opponents who fit style and who were
Speaker 2: able to compliment her style. Her best matches were against
Speaker 2: Becky Lynch and NXT. Becky Lynch was one of those
Speaker 2: wrestlers who is going to make you better. And if
Speaker 2: I think if they turn Tiffany Hill, Rhea Ripley is
Speaker 2: one of those wrestlers who's gonna make you better. And
Speaker 2: a babyface Rhea Ripley against Tiffany I think is going
Speaker 2: to be a really strong match. A heel Tiffany against
Speaker 2: a babyface EO Sky. I think that's a really exciting match.
Speaker 2: I think right now is wrestling a babyface. She hasn't
Speaker 2: been put in there with heels who are who can
Speaker 2: carry her to shining up the way that she needs
Speaker 2: to be shined up to stand out. So she's been
Speaker 2: under she's been undercut by a weak division. Is in
Speaker 2: defense of her, go ahead now.
Speaker 7: I'm glad that y'all brought up heat and I would
Speaker 7: say one thing today, even though she could probably get
Speaker 7: back what's in the ring, But what's gonna immediately hurt
Speaker 7: her is the character and what you have to present
Speaker 7: yourself in the ring on the mic, just around the scene,
Speaker 7: because you gotta think we're in WWE, They're not gonna
Speaker 7: give them many matches, and they're not gonna allow her
Speaker 7: to showcase the matches that probably could get her over,
Speaker 7: but she don't have to talk.
Speaker 3: And do that much.
Speaker 7: She's gonna have to carry some of that and that's
Speaker 7: gonna hurt that and not getting the reaction that you
Speaker 7: want from the crowd that you could just genuinely get
Speaker 7: if she was just giving the ring time and show
Speaker 7: people what she can do in the ring. Now going
Speaker 7: to the heat that y'all was talking about this transition
Speaker 7: to the next thing. I think right now, especially on SmackDown,
Speaker 7: said SmackDown seeming more like the storytelling show.
Speaker 3: They have an.
Speaker 7: Opportunity to make at least four new women. They don't
Speaker 7: have to be brand new women fresh out of NXT,
Speaker 7: but just new people. I think one of those spots
Speaker 7: could potentially be Jade, because you have a Charlotte that's
Speaker 7: not just on the tail end.
Speaker 3: We can say that she on the tail end.
Speaker 7: You have no Nay on me, you have no Bianca
Speaker 7: and Ria just got hurt.
Speaker 3: You can bring up.
Speaker 7: Four new people to get that spot. And I think
Speaker 7: a person who you can use is Chelsea Greens, and
Speaker 7: she's beloved and people are behind her and give her
Speaker 7: a month or so run where people been coming at
Speaker 7: her like she's an undeserving champion.
Speaker 3: She's not serious.
Speaker 7: She we don't believe in her because I think it's
Speaker 7: a character that can morphus out of that, because to me,
Speaker 7: she got a little bit of Mike Foldy Captains Jack
Speaker 7: type of style in her when she feels like she's
Speaker 7: the Mickfolder character who Mick Folder was the fan of
Speaker 7: the wrestling and stuff like that, and you can make
Speaker 7: it transition that in the to a Captains Jack type
Speaker 7: of feel from ladies perspective that you haven't seen. But
Speaker 7: you would want that heat to go to somebody new,
Speaker 7: like a jac Chaine or Blake Monroe or somebody else
Speaker 7: that you feel like that that you can pull it
Speaker 7: off of and get them a run with the title. Wow,
Speaker 7: since they already building the division right now, it's circling
Speaker 7: between Jay anyway that she carried most of the statements
Speaker 7: as women.
Speaker 3: But how do y'all feel about that?
Speaker 7: And who would be like three people outside j that
Speaker 7: y'all will boost up to that? I think Blake Monroe's
Speaker 7: and She's already have something with those two women, especially
Speaker 7: if she calls maybe tipping it to lose the title
Speaker 7: against Jason Jane.
Speaker 3: That'll help Jason Jane move that title, and then you.
Speaker 7: Can build up a few and heat onto somebody like
Speaker 7: her who could probably use it.
Speaker 2: Derek, I want to be more of a fan of
Speaker 2: Blake Monroe than I am her NXT run. The best
Speaker 2: way I could describe it is she fit in rather
Speaker 2: than standing out. I thought Jay C. Jane is a
Speaker 2: lot better of a performer than Blake Monroe is, because, aw,
Speaker 2: the big thing is, they don't focus on the moments
Speaker 2: between the moves, and so she would just kind of
Speaker 2: hit moves and then strike one or two poses. When
Speaker 2: she was purposely asked to slow down and take time
Speaker 2: in between her spots and her moves. I don't think
Speaker 2: she stood out nearly as much as I thought she would.
Speaker 2: Not to say that when she doesn't get to the
Speaker 2: main roster, when she's under a new director, with new
Speaker 2: agents and producers, maybe they're able to find that thing
Speaker 2: in to her that allows her to stand out more.
Speaker 2: Because you'll notice this when she came in NXT, and
Speaker 2: I know a lot of people are like, how could
Speaker 2: you talk bad about Blake Monroe? She came in an
Speaker 2: NXT and her level was this high every successive match
Speaker 2: that she had, the heat behind her and the excitement
Speaker 2: for her lessened every time. Though she was given substantial
Speaker 2: time on television to stand out, she didn't. Right, So
Speaker 2: if I was given a choice on new people from
Speaker 2: the roster, who would deserve a chance? I think J. C.
Speaker 2: Jane has a lot more attributes that I think would
Speaker 2: get over on television then pretty much anybody else who's
Speaker 2: fresh on SmackDown. So that would be my choice.
Speaker 1: You Wade, Yeah. I mean when you look at what's
Speaker 1: going on in NXT, and we had some check comments
Speaker 1: on it earlier, I don't have faith that in the
Speaker 1: NXT environment, whoever's getting a push, whoever is having the
Speaker 1: matches in that context, in that setting, that it's going
Speaker 1: to be transferable in a way. I think so Ruka
Speaker 1: is an extreme example because she's so acrobatic, but the
Speaker 1: fact that she got called up and others didn't, I
Speaker 1: think is revealing and symptomatic of a mindset, which is
Speaker 1: we need women to look a certain way and wrestle
Speaker 1: a certain way with high spots or flashiness, and I
Speaker 1: don't have like great faith in a lot of them.
Speaker 1: But like when you have Julia and Sephanie vakaer like
Speaker 1: and you know, stuff just came back and Julia, there's
Speaker 1: people who are more well rounded. And I to me, like,
Speaker 1: go with the proven wrestlers and try to repackage them
Speaker 1: a little bit more than bring fresh face is up
Speaker 1: for the sake of being fresh faces, because I don't
Speaker 1: know with the sample size of what I've seen in
Speaker 1: an NXT and then what we're seeing about the people
Speaker 1: who are called up. I mean, I don't have great
Speaker 1: like I should be able to rattle off a few
Speaker 1: names to all that, and I'm like, oh, do that,
Speaker 1: but I'm going back to the names that I feel
Speaker 1: have more experience and need to be repackaged. I bring
Speaker 1: freaking Natalia back to have like before, I would push
Speaker 1: some of these NXT wrestls who think it's all about
Speaker 1: acrobatics and awkwardness until you get to your next dazzling spot.
Speaker 1: There's a just a problem with the training and they're
Speaker 1: they're not going to bring people in from the outside
Speaker 1: very often anymore because they have their whole system set
Speaker 1: up and there's not this robust indie scene and aw
Speaker 1: has the portal to the international wrestlers who can go
Speaker 1: and are more athletic and work a different styles. So
Speaker 1: I mean the chat. You know, good fella, says Jordan Grace,
Speaker 1: you need to figure out, you know, get Blake Pilar pieces. Yep,
Speaker 1: get Blake in the ring and get her some wins.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't have a great answer.
Speaker 2: And I don't have a lot of I don't have
Speaker 2: a lot of faith in Julia. In fact, when I've
Speaker 2: talked to people about Julia, they all say, well, she
Speaker 2: was great in Japan, and I was like, tell me
Speaker 2: a match, give me some evidence, because what I've noticed
Speaker 2: all about a lot of these people, they haven't actually
Speaker 2: watched Julia matches. They've watched Julia highlight reels that was
Speaker 2: not having a match, and then they'll point to one
Speaker 2: or two matches, and I was like, that's a different
Speaker 2: context than what you see in WWE. And to their
Speaker 2: in WWE's defense of not pushing Julia, when she was
Speaker 2: given more than five minutes on television, the crowd died.
Speaker 2: And so if you're given seven minutes and the crowd dies,
Speaker 2: they're not going to give you twelve next time. And
Speaker 2: that's what they saw. They get made to the US champion.
Speaker 2: They didn't give a lot of chances, but the few
Speaker 2: chances she got she did not succeed.
Speaker 1: Kelly well to be co host in I think two
Speaker 1: weeks on our SmackDown post show, and obviously he's the
Speaker 1: guy to talk to in really to get into all
Speaker 1: this stuff we're talking about about NXT style and the
Speaker 1: call ups. By the way, Sealle version three, I put
Speaker 1: this on the screen. I think the flippy reputation of
Speaker 1: NXT women is overstated. The only ones I can think
Speaker 1: of our recently our Soul and Colonie Jordan.
Speaker 4: M M.
Speaker 3: It's been more.
Speaker 2: I'll say JC rustles a different style and it's to
Speaker 2: her benefit because it's not the flippy stuff. But what
Speaker 2: she does has impact. You know, that rolling forearm, she does,
Speaker 2: the pump kick. Basic stuff done well to me stands
Speaker 2: out a lot more than flashy stuff that doesn't connect. Yep.
Speaker 1: Derek Mitchell says appears Julian and Jordan Grace both were
Speaker 1: highly anticipated signings. In the sample size has been they've
Speaker 1: been underwhelming in the sample size so far.
Speaker 2: Julian only had one good mansion NXT that I thought
Speaker 2: really stood out, and it was a four way where
Speaker 2: you're just hitting moves. You hit a movie, and you
Speaker 2: get out. And I think that was like the wrap
Speaker 2: on Lash Legend two is when I asked people, like,
Speaker 2: you know, what was the match that stood out at
Speaker 2: Lash Legend. They'll talk about the Elimination Chamber last year.
Speaker 2: She just hit moves, she just hit spots, and then
Speaker 2: they talk about these other big tag matches or multi
Speaker 2: man she did in n XT. That's just hitting your
Speaker 2: best stuff. That's not that doesn't translate as a champion
Speaker 2: in a seven minute match.
Speaker 7: I would say this though I've watched NXC for a
Speaker 7: long time. I even watched NXC UK Okay, I agree
Speaker 7: with you wade those NXC. That's why I said anybody
Speaker 7: just somebody knew represented new because I felt like when
Speaker 7: they went to the original two point oh scene and
Speaker 7: Vince got heavily involved in it, and he sent Bruce
Speaker 7: down there to do a lot, and I think Sean
Speaker 7: in case, yeah, Sewn Michael's in. He just started going
Speaker 7: along with that. He kept that into how he was
Speaker 7: doing because at the time when they had him originally
Speaker 7: started booking, he was booking n X t U K
Speaker 7: and that was a much of the time of Guta's
Speaker 7: reign into it your dragon off. That's when you had
Speaker 7: those ilia and in Guntha matches that was high impact
Speaker 7: and then they had great stories to go.
Speaker 3: Along to him. And he done.
Speaker 7: Since he took it over NXC, he's done totally different
Speaker 7: and set the people up totally different. I think Last
Speaker 7: Legend has gotten better since she came to the main roster.
Speaker 3: Julia.
Speaker 7: I don't think she got the opportunity because they didn't
Speaker 7: what Paul Haynen used to say, I'm ana hide your
Speaker 7: weaknesses and I'm gonna.
Speaker 3: Highlight your what you're good at.
Speaker 7: They highlighted her weaknesses and didn't give off her what
Speaker 7: she's good at because she has an aura. She had
Speaker 7: an aura about it. The presentation and stuff like that.
Speaker 7: They gave Stephanie the core more of that aura and
Speaker 7: they allowed that to showcase more, especially the move and
Speaker 7: that people liked and stuff like that, and that what
Speaker 7: gave her opportunity to win over the crowd.
Speaker 3: J C. Jane I like her.
Speaker 7: I respect her, but like you know, like those big
Speaker 7: box office movies that sell a lot week one, but
Speaker 7: then they dropped like seventy percent after week one, so
Speaker 7: they don't make that's what happened to her and her introduction,
Speaker 7: because even in NXT, she didn't get.
Speaker 3: Over with the crowd because of sometimes how dry she is.
Speaker 7: That's why I would love to see what they could do,
Speaker 7: like giving a true opportunity with Jordan Grace or something
Speaker 7: like that, somebody and putting them up against people. That's
Speaker 7: why I said, maybe give a Blake Monroe because outside
Speaker 7: of them, they didn't do well with her NXC. She
Speaker 7: knows who her character is. She know who she is
Speaker 7: as a person. So if you know, if you put
Speaker 7: people up against a person who know who they are
Speaker 7: as a person, it helps the other person that you're
Speaker 7: trying to bring along, and you give the crowd opportunity
Speaker 7: to see who they like. And that's what they have
Speaker 7: been not been doing for the last year and a
Speaker 7: half with the men nor women. Giving somebody that's what
Speaker 7: you were talking about, Randy Orgon. He's telling you a
Speaker 7: Randy Orton story that he been telling for twenty five
Speaker 7: years now and not telling you a base care to
Speaker 7: I'm a heel reindew or and I'm doing this in
Speaker 7: my job to get old Cody, And that's what's hard
Speaker 7: with the women right now.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think an easy solve for it when you
Speaker 2: talk about the transfer from NXT to the main roster
Speaker 2: and a lot of these women are faltering. I think
Speaker 2: one of the issues is, especially when you're working with
Speaker 2: people from scratch, they are at the mercy of listening
Speaker 2: to an agent and getting comfortable with an agent to
Speaker 2: put together their matches. So they have these agents that
Speaker 2: are really comfortable with an NXT who put all their
Speaker 2: stuff together, and they're comfortable with the talent, and the
Speaker 2: talent's comfortable with them, and then they get a transfer
Speaker 2: to the main roster where they're working with different agents
Speaker 2: at a different speed, with a different time allocation to
Speaker 2: what they're doing. And that I think is where it's
Speaker 2: falling apart.
Speaker 1: What about and I've been thinking about this lately. In it,
Speaker 1: I don't think so many pop are just going to
Speaker 1: discount it without in actually being executed with somebody who
Speaker 1: has a vision for how to do it right. But
Speaker 1: this was us I think created by an email last
Speaker 1: week about aw and what about squash matches. Let's get
Speaker 1: women who really can work, They really can take bumps
Speaker 1: the ring, They know where to be, They're in the
Speaker 1: right place at the right time, they get timing and
Speaker 1: they're the jobbers. Go to the indie scene, bring some
Speaker 1: people back who you didn't think you could market well,
Speaker 1: but they can work, and get them in the ring
Speaker 1: on television and people, well, no one to watch. That's
Speaker 1: not true. I just don't buy that. People like ring entrances,
Speaker 1: they like larger live personalities, they like signature moves that work,
Speaker 1: and by the way, they like seeing people take bumps,
Speaker 1: and they like short matches. People like short matches. It's
Speaker 1: an instant gratification. I get to see a ring entrance
Speaker 1: someone I love, their signature moves get established. The announcers
Speaker 1: have a few talking points. You don't do the thirty
Speaker 1: second or one and a half minute one. You actually
Speaker 1: tell a little bit of a story. You go three
Speaker 1: or four minutes, no commercial break. So format wise, it's
Speaker 1: a little bit of a challenge because of the way
Speaker 1: that they're kind of stuck in their format of double
Speaker 1: box breaks. But I think getting women who can really
Speaker 1: work for good hands in the ring and giving these
Speaker 1: women who you believe are marketable a chance to work
Speaker 1: with them, even just for that three four minutes, it
Speaker 1: serves multiple purposes. One, you just have a chance to
Speaker 1: these women stand out who they are and what they do,
Speaker 1: because there's so many there's so many sort of semi
Speaker 1: interchangeable looking women now who get called up and they
Speaker 1: sort of have a gimmick. It feels sort of performative,
Speaker 1: and then it doesn't really establish itself before it's thrown
Speaker 1: right into a story like we saw tonight. So I
Speaker 1: don't know what, Derek, what do you think about that?
Speaker 2: I like the idea, and I don't think you actually
Speaker 2: need to get jobbers. I think you have women on
Speaker 2: your roster who if they're expected to do a match
Speaker 2: that's three and four minutes and take good bombs, that
Speaker 2: should be their job.
Speaker 1: Kind of what Julia does.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well ib Nile like Ivy Nile on television.
Speaker 3: Well, let me be clear.
Speaker 1: Let me be clear. When I say jobbers, I mean
Speaker 1: women who who they put a lot of effort into
Speaker 1: training or they never hired because they say they don't
Speaker 1: have the right look, and but you don't want them
Speaker 1: to be I mean part of it is a job
Speaker 1: or should be semipathetic or not super flashy, but really
Speaker 1: good at taking bumps. And if you get a handful
Speaker 1: of them just like you, they get an introduct They
Speaker 1: don't get a ring introduction. You know they're gonna lose.
Speaker 1: And once a while you tell the one, two three,
Speaker 1: good story, whatever, beer hurt, sorry, whatever, but you can.
Speaker 1: You can use people around the roster. But they just
Speaker 1: always loose, you know, they just always lose. I mean,
Speaker 1: but give reps to women, let them establish. But the
Speaker 1: point is is there's a there's a different structure to
Speaker 1: a matter. You're trying to be even steepened with somebody
Speaker 1: who's also getting a push and they're protecting. And the
Speaker 1: flow of that is you do your spots. Now it's
Speaker 1: my turn. You do your spots, and it's my turn.
Speaker 1: You try to fit in the flashy moves, make it
Speaker 1: more of a one way street. One person's job is
Speaker 1: to take bumps for you, maybe get a hope spot
Speaker 1: in if they're if they're a babyface, and then but
Speaker 1: you get to do your moves, but in a flow
Speaker 1: with somebody who's a good hand, who has though, who's
Speaker 1: given up on pushing to the top. But you shouldn't
Speaker 1: discard them because they have ten And I don't know
Speaker 1: who those would be right off the top of my head, but.
Speaker 2: What I can name a few that's like that's Candas Larray,
Speaker 2: that's Ivy Nile, yep, And there's probably more than the
Speaker 2: even what was Keana James when she's not doing anything.
Speaker 2: And also like when I was training down in Arizona,
Speaker 2: they had what they called the jobber match, and there
Speaker 2: was days in training because a lot of those guys
Speaker 2: in Arizona, they were the guys who would do the
Speaker 2: TV matches for WWF Shotgun back in the day. And
Speaker 2: the jobber match was like this very simple format and
Speaker 2: if you watch it, it's like completely the same every time.
Speaker 2: The jobber has one hope spot, which was either like
Speaker 2: a drop kicker, a job breaker goes up to the
Speaker 2: top rope and if it's a more than three minutes,
Speaker 2: you get a crossbody off the top roun they kick
Speaker 2: out and then they hit the finish and it's over right,
Speaker 2: And that was for the babyface who's jobbing to a heel.
Speaker 2: But I think like with Candas Larra or Ivy Nile,
Speaker 2: you pick like the one or two moves that they
Speaker 2: get to do, and everything else is one way traffic
Speaker 2: where they get beaten. It's it's meant to highlight the
Speaker 2: one person you add that drop kick or that whatever
Speaker 2: in siguri or whatever, just to give a little bit
Speaker 2: of hope and then you cut it off and you
Speaker 2: take it home. And I think what they would be
Speaker 2: surprised at is by doing those style of matches, the
Speaker 2: person who is doing the job, they get to be
Speaker 2: a good bumper, They get to be a good bump
Speaker 2: and feeder their offense. They make their offense matter because
Speaker 2: there's very little of it, and they get a lot better,
Speaker 2: a lot faster.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's hard to do an off the radar and
Speaker 1: then come back and be credible also, so it kind
Speaker 1: of it almost has to be people you've given up
Speaker 1: on as the baseline acceptance of their role.
Speaker 2: But I think like Ivy Nile is a good example
Speaker 2: because she's just stuck in my head her against Lash,
Speaker 2: where she gets one move or two moves, I don't
Speaker 2: think like barries her any lower than she is now. Yep, right,
Speaker 2: that's like that's not going to hurt her. In fact,
Speaker 2: I think people would see like the one move you got,
Speaker 2: and she's like, oh Ivy showed fight.
Speaker 1: You know, tonight's show would have benefited from another match,
Speaker 1: no matter how short. Like I mean, it's just like
Speaker 1: I was thinking of people who paid tonight or did
Speaker 1: they get dark matches like there wasn't a lot on that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and wrestling fans, I think we need to call
Speaker 2: ourselves on the carpet when we see those matches. Stop
Speaker 2: like saying this person got jobbed out, like Julia loses
Speaker 2: in three minutes and like this massive crime. I'm like,
Speaker 2: would you rather not be on TV for four or
Speaker 2: five weeks?
Speaker 1: You know, factually speaking, she has sort of become a jobber,
Speaker 1: but they don't have a spot. That's respect, that's that
Speaker 1: serves a purpose because if you lose quickly, it's you're
Speaker 1: being buried, as opposed to if you lose quickly it's
Speaker 1: because your opponent was better than you. But you're a regular.
Speaker 1: And that's part of our format, that's part of the
Speaker 1: cadence of how we how we build characters and tell stories.
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Speaker 2: There's also this, instead of looking out for people's feelings,
Speaker 2: is lash Legend and Julia in an eight minute match
Speaker 2: that's meant to get lash over? Is it more likely
Speaker 2: to be successful in eight minutes or three and a
Speaker 2: half minutes? The answer is easy, three and a half minutes,
Speaker 2: So screw somebody's feelings. Do what is meant to accomplish
Speaker 2: the goals.
Speaker 1: Or put somebody different in there who is just there
Speaker 1: to lose.
Speaker 2: Who you can trust, who you can trust?
Speaker 1: Exactly, yes, exactly, what about the standardiation says, so many
Speaker 1: NXTU breasts as stand the same way pots with the camera,
Speaker 1: the same exact thing, gole, wait the same amount of time,
Speaker 1: and then and then their head and spile and their
Speaker 1: head and spile in the same way, and then suddenly
Speaker 1: turn away and go back to their opponent. Yes, I mean,
Speaker 1: there's such a reason.
Speaker 2: But to standard Deviation's point to add on to that,
Speaker 2: you practice that enough where it does look unnatural too,
Speaker 2: when you start feeling it, it comes natural because all
Speaker 2: those gots like Javon Evans is a great example. Now
Speaker 2: he's got this great authentic fire up. You know how
Speaker 2: many times that guy was told probably to fire up
Speaker 2: in these ways and it just looks silly and stupid.
Speaker 2: Now what you can tell the difference in it. He's
Speaker 2: practiced it and now it's coming natural and he's feeling it.
Speaker 2: So initially it's like bron Breaker is a great example.
Speaker 2: What is the biggest difference to when Brown Breaker debuted
Speaker 2: in NXT two point zero. When he would hit his move,
Speaker 2: he would turn to the camera and he'd be like
Speaker 2: Rah and it looks it looked like so performative that
Speaker 2: now when he like Nail's Joe Hendry and he pops
Speaker 2: up and he goes crazy, it feels like when a
Speaker 2: linebacker sacks the quarterback and gets excited. It's like to
Speaker 2: the point where it became natural.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and and but you don't want to look like
Speaker 1: there's this There is a code written into the video
Speaker 1: game where you drop in a signature move and then
Speaker 1: the drop in the lightness of the wrestler, but the
Speaker 1: motion is the same. If you're looking up from above
Speaker 1: down at it. There's a move in the ring and
Speaker 1: you can see them as Sanitivation says turn to the
Speaker 1: camera and ah do their thing, and then they turn
Speaker 1: back and it almost looks like it is part of
Speaker 1: actual code in a video game rather than a human
Speaker 1: being just interacting naturally. And there's there's so much of
Speaker 1: what that that they're doing. There's you know, the same
Speaker 1: it's always to the opposite side of the announcers that
Speaker 1: you do the dives. Now you've got the timekeepers area
Speaker 1: where you do those spots. There's never I want things
Speaker 1: to look a little more awkward, like I want there
Speaker 1: to be like something where the hard camera can't really
Speaker 1: see what's happening. Like I was like a little bit
Speaker 1: more of a sense of chaos and less polish I.
Speaker 1: You know, we see in w W in Real last
Speaker 1: year how proud they are of you know, they did
Speaker 1: it mostly the humiliate Chris Park but and manufactured something
Speaker 1: that wasn't really a big deal, but they're so proud
Speaker 1: of how meticulous it is. And it just feels antiseptic
Speaker 1: and planned out and and I know that, Oh but
Speaker 1: we have TV accues to hit and a network to form,
Speaker 1: you know, fitted it within a format and all that,
Speaker 1: but it's like there is a way to do things
Speaker 1: that doesn't doesn't feel like it's just programmed code and
Speaker 1: and so much of that is the problem that we're
Speaker 1: seeing in annextinos. These wrestlers haven't been on the indie scene,
Speaker 1: just working, working, like you say, naturally reacting to a
Speaker 1: crowd without a hard time cueue, and they're scared to
Speaker 1: go over, you know, they're scared, let me not go over,
Speaker 1: like when they're scared to go over their time. They're
Speaker 1: scared to deviate from exactly what needs to be done,
Speaker 1: and everybody's on edge about it, and there's no natural flow.
Speaker 1: There should be more pliability and flexibility. Easy for me
Speaker 1: to say because I'm not trying to get make sure
Speaker 1: the main event segment doesn't get all the time it needs.
Speaker 1: But it's gone too far and I would pull back, Derek.
Speaker 2: But I think within those timeframes. And you see this
Speaker 2: development in wrestlers as well. Initially, what you're doing is
Speaker 2: you're just doing it, and then you start actually doing it,
Speaker 2: but you're performing, and then you're not only performing, you're
Speaker 2: feeling the performance and matt range from doing to performing
Speaker 2: to feeling. Some guys never get to that feeling mode.
Speaker 2: A lot of people don't ever get to that feeling mode.
Speaker 2: But if you get another enough reps under your belt
Speaker 2: and you reflect on the performances you had, that's when
Speaker 2: you get to that next level. But sometimes reflection requires
Speaker 2: a coach or someone who's telling you, how'd you feel
Speaker 2: about that? What did you feel when you hit that move?
Speaker 2: When did you feel the crowd come up? When did
Speaker 2: you feel the crowd start to come down? But just
Speaker 2: asking those questions and have somebody think about it, that's
Speaker 2: when you start actually becoming a master of the crowd.
Speaker 1: That's what Steve Auston always talked about it's like we
Speaker 1: need just like house show matches where there's no you're
Speaker 1: just you're feeling it. You're acting in the crowd, you're
Speaker 1: calling an audible, you're you're calling it in the ring.
Speaker 1: There's a structure to the beginning, there's a couple of
Speaker 1: key points in the match, there's the finish, but just
Speaker 1: just go dance to the music that's playing and.
Speaker 2: And and what you know what's sad is the only
Speaker 2: guys who are allowed to do that nowadays are the
Speaker 2: guys who are at the main event level.
Speaker 1: Who who are self indulgent.
Speaker 2: Well, not only are they self indulgent, but they know
Speaker 2: how to do it already, so they're just yeah, they're
Speaker 2: practicing a skill they've honed. And I even think some
Speaker 2: of them, like I noticed this in Seth Rollins and
Speaker 2: Roman Reigns. They got to this extremely high point and
Speaker 2: then that the crowd actually came down. It's like they
Speaker 2: lost the crowd right there. And you know that how
Speaker 2: long Seth Rollins is rustled. He realized that that moment
Speaker 2: should have they should have sped it up right after
Speaker 2: that because they actually lost the crowd. Now they brought
Speaker 2: them back. The last thing you want to do when
Speaker 2: you're climbing up a hill is to allow yourself to
Speaker 2: lose your footing and start slipping back down. You want
Speaker 2: to continue that momentum up the hill. But those are
Speaker 2: the guys who've done it so long. They probably realize
Speaker 2: that because they felt it, and they're given the opportunity
Speaker 2: to feel it, not someone to tell you, well, this
Speaker 2: is how you feel or this is what you do.
Speaker 1: You think about what a teenager. When a teenager learns
Speaker 1: to drive, like everything, Oh my god, I got to
Speaker 1: think about how to break I gotta think about the
Speaker 1: gear what there's a turn signal, there's a review and
Speaker 1: all that, and like eventually you just you don't even
Speaker 1: I mean, you should be cognizant that you're driving, but
Speaker 1: things just flow. Things are natural, and you're not thinking
Speaker 1: about where's the gear shift, which way I move? What,
Speaker 1: where's the churn signal versus winshield wiper like in wrestler ever,
Speaker 1: so much of what we see feels like a kid
Speaker 1: learning to drive. Yeah, yeah, they're just overthinking it, all right.
Speaker 1: I want to wrap up pretty quick here, Drell. I
Speaker 1: know we did a lot of talking there gone way
Speaker 1: over my time. I hope for plan for It's been
Speaker 1: good conversation. I'm not I'm not thising that, but let's
Speaker 1: I want to keep it kind of short next time.
Speaker 1: Let's instead of you saying I'll take me on last,
Speaker 1: we'll put you on first, so we don't feel like
Speaker 1: a rushing yet.
Speaker 3: Are you cool?
Speaker 7: Hey, I take it last. I stay on and watch
Speaker 7: the whole show anyway.
Speaker 3: That's cool.
Speaker 7: And that's who's the thing that I wanted to talk
Speaker 7: about the most. So hearing y'all talk about it, okay,
Speaker 7: and that was good to do.
Speaker 1: So nothing else.
Speaker 7: Oh last thing will be just this to add on
Speaker 7: to what you was saying. I think Cannie Ray why
Speaker 7: she can't be like a Joba to the stars and
Speaker 7: like top of the mid Card. Now she did that
Speaker 7: and helped EO character develop an NXT when she was
Speaker 7: that person, And why can't some jobs be a story
Speaker 7: that they Finnah tell with that person. That's what I
Speaker 7: felt with Julia, that could have been the story that
Speaker 7: he told and just use that online to add to
Speaker 7: that character, because that's.
Speaker 3: Somebody that you could use and maybe need.
Speaker 7: So stop saying everybody getting jobbed out to be a
Speaker 7: story to be told.
Speaker 1: Yeah, don't you said as a derisive pejorative. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: just like you're not being It's just it's a role
Speaker 1: that you're playing that's valuable. It's like, yeah, cool, broal, thanks.
Speaker 3: All right, joha, good night, Yeah, thanks.
Speaker 1: Derek. Anything else from tonight show? You definitely like court
Speaker 1: Baron Corbin Trick Williams. What are you seeing in these two?
Speaker 1: A veteran against a new guy from NXT. How does
Speaker 1: this play into our conversation about the women.
Speaker 2: I thought it was a better match than they had
Speaker 2: at SummerSlam because it didn't have the Yaudi interference. And
Speaker 2: I think with the success of this match, which I
Speaker 2: did think was successful for these reasons, a lot of people,
Speaker 2: I think, measure success by how many moves they hit
Speaker 2: or how many high spots they hit. But if you
Speaker 2: notice by the end of the match that crowd was
Speaker 2: solely behind Trick and avidly against Baron, yep, that was effective.
Speaker 1: And you know what helped is airing a video before
Speaker 1: the match where Trick said the only reason he has
Speaker 1: the titles because he cheated and took shortcuts. Yeah, like,
Speaker 1: when that's not whining and complaining that's a baby face
Speaker 1: calling out a heel for walking around with the title
Speaker 1: that he doesn't deserve, and a cocky heel who should
Speaker 1: be called out on that. That helps set the foundation
Speaker 1: get fans permission to boo the new guy who's back.
Speaker 1: I mean, a parent Corbin's easy to boo. But Trick
Speaker 1: gave people a reason a rally behind him because he
Speaker 1: got wronged instead of just acting like, well, it's no
Speaker 1: big deal. Didn't you know that? That's just the way
Speaker 1: it works.
Speaker 2: And it was fifteen seconds yep, and more than worth
Speaker 2: the time.
Speaker 3: Ye well.
Speaker 2: I thought that was a good and effective match. My
Speaker 2: only misgivings about it, which I think is still an
Speaker 2: issue with Trick, is you saw twice in the match
Speaker 2: where I think Trick is starting to get to the
Speaker 2: point where when he fires up, he is definitely in
Speaker 2: that phase where he's like in the post phase where
Speaker 2: it's like, oh, this is when I pose in the corner, right, Yep,
Speaker 2: it's starting to come a little more natural. I do
Speaker 2: think he's starting to lose the crowd during the heat,
Speaker 2: and because I watched the international feed on Netflix, they
Speaker 2: show you what's happening during the commercial break, and so
Speaker 2: a lot of times that's the heel just putting heat
Speaker 2: on the baby face, where it's the babyface's job to
Speaker 2: continue to fight back so the fans have something to watch, right,
Speaker 2: And there was two times, I think one actually happened
Speaker 2: after the commercial where Baron brings him up and he's
Speaker 2: got him in the clench, where he's got him at
Speaker 2: the back of the head, and you can tell he
Speaker 2: tells at him fight back, and trick like pauses for
Speaker 2: like a second and a half and then like gently
Speaker 2: moves his hands away and then fires back with a
Speaker 2: few lackluster punches. So I think that's like his next
Speaker 2: step is a babyface. It's whoever his coach is. When
Speaker 2: that hill says, fire back, you break their hands, you strike,
Speaker 2: fans start coming alive. You strike, fans come alive a
Speaker 2: little more, you hit the ropes, you get cut off.
Speaker 2: It gives those hand the fans the hope where you
Speaker 2: don't have to do anything in those three minutes because
Speaker 2: you gave them a reason to stay in your match,
Speaker 2: And I think that's where he needs to improve. But
Speaker 2: I think Baron Corbin is the right guy when it
Speaker 2: comes to size, when it comes to his character to
Speaker 2: get Trick better at those things that he's lacking right now.
Speaker 2: So even though they might need might not be blowaway matches,
Speaker 2: I do think this is a good matchup for Trick.
Speaker 1: I have a super chat from Derek. I don't think
Speaker 1: I got to so let's get this in here. Derek,
Speaker 1: thank you again for generosity in the super chat. I've
Speaker 1: compared Julia's trajectory to w b's attempt to build the
Speaker 1: lightweight division around the Great Saska in nineteen ninety seven,
Speaker 1: much like how that experiment didn't pan out led to
Speaker 1: the company shifting focus to Tako Mitchenoku. Derek, you're not
Speaker 1: in Yeah.
Speaker 2: I remember the Great Sacega match where I thought it
Speaker 2: was awesome and the crowd was silent, And there was
Speaker 2: one I think it was at the Canadian Stampede pay
Speaker 2: per view where I was like, oh, yeah, this to
Speaker 2: me is great, but the crowd does not care.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it is about crowd reactions. I mean,
Speaker 1: but you know, and then w B leans into that
Speaker 1: two hearts of time, it's doing cinema. It's like, well, yeah,
Speaker 1: but it's still okay to like pick up the pace
Speaker 1: and stile and curate your match length down a little bit,
Speaker 1: just out of courtesy and keeping like you said, keep
Speaker 1: the momentum, you know, take away the spots where you
Speaker 1: lose that. Sammy Zana was great tonight and we talked
Speaker 1: a little bit about him, but just want to say
Speaker 1: the interaction with him in Ko his delivery, you know,
Speaker 1: welcome back. No one's happier than me that you're back.
Speaker 1: But I do want you to acknowledge it's a hundred
Speaker 1: percent you screwed me, one hundred percent. You're you're a
Speaker 1: number condemticial, came at my expense. But if you acknowledge it,
Speaker 1: we can move on. Then Kao acknowledges it. And then
Speaker 1: Sammy goes, well you've acknowledged it, but did you say
Speaker 1: you're sorry? Like it can't like it moves the goal
Speaker 1: post a little bit, and and then Kao goes, I'm
Speaker 1: sorry that it affected you that way. And so he
Speaker 1: was a little clever with it with his wording too.
Speaker 2: I just love the way. I love the way Sammy
Speaker 2: talks with his hands. Yes, I think it gets you
Speaker 2: to pay so much more attention to him. I went
Speaker 2: to Italy two summers ago, and you know, the stereo
Speaker 2: type of Italians talking with their hands. And then we
Speaker 2: have these tour guides and they were like all over
Speaker 2: the place with their hands everywhere we went, and I
Speaker 2: just thought, as a high school teacher, I need to
Speaker 2: talk more with my hands because students will pay more
Speaker 2: attention to me, and so like, purposely the last two
Speaker 2: years I've tried to use more hand gestures when I talk,
Speaker 2: and Sammy saying, I'm like, like him, that's what I
Speaker 2: need to do, right.
Speaker 1: Like, yep, cool, All right, I could go on, but
Speaker 1: we'll end there. Derek, thanks so much.
Speaker 2: Really, I always appreciate it. Sorry about my dogs interrupting,
Speaker 2: but that was great. Their fastest sleep.
Speaker 1: Good that happens. Yeah, I've got either side of me.
Speaker 1: My dogs are asleep, although they know when I'm signing
Speaker 1: off and they're like, oh we get we get a
Speaker 1: late night snack, get to go outside. So they know
Speaker 1: that they know the cadence quite well. Powd Torch VIP
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Speaker 3: Derek.
Speaker 1: Enjoy your weekend.
Speaker 2: Oh you too, YouTube?
Speaker 1: Thank you. Yeah, it's been a stretch. It's been a
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Speaker 1: rookie perspectives, no unfounded rumors, no clickbait, no deceptive headlines,
Speaker 1: just high quality writing, breaking news and fascinating flashbacks every
Speaker 1: day at pw torch dot com. Pull yourself away from
Speaker 1: the evacuous social media experience that I know many of
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Speaker 1: if not hours at a time, and settle in for
Speaker 1: high quality PW Torch branded wrestling coverage. Admit it, you
Speaker 1: love Nick Barbatty when he co hosts with me on
Speaker 1: the Wadekeller Post shows. Well now you can listen to
Speaker 1: him every week on the Nickys Club, a VIP exclusive podcast.
Speaker 1: Here's Nick to tell you more.
Speaker 10: Hey, Wrestling fans. It's Nick Barbatty and I'm back with
Speaker 10: the Nicky's Club, the place where the family of Nickys
Speaker 10: comes together for big laughs and Shark takes on WWE
Speaker 10: for WrestleMania rumors to surprise returns.
Speaker 1: I got you covered.
Speaker 10: The Nicky's Club where the wrestling feels like the coolest
Speaker 10: club in town.
Speaker 1: Nick Barbatti wants to be part of your wrestling life
Speaker 1: every week, so why not let him go VIP pw
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Speaker 1: You can also stream directly from our ad free VIP website,
Speaker 1: The Nikki's Club waiting for you every week at pw
Speaker 1: Torch vip. Did you know that you can enjoy commercial
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Speaker 1: by the way, to kick the tires a bit and
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Speaker 1: of our free shows like the Weaightkeller post shows, the
Speaker 1: Weightkeler Podcast, Flagship, our Flashbacks, and also the pw Torch
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Speaker 1: listening experience, but with third tier membership, you can also
Speaker 1: unlock all the VIP podcasts, including Everything with Rich and Wade,
Speaker 1: to Fix with Todd Martin that I host with Todd
Speaker 1: every week, the Weadkeller News bulletins, post pay per view roundtables,
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Speaker 1: week to week coverage through our progressing Torch weekly newsletters
Speaker 1: dating back to the late nineteen eighties, along with streaming
Speaker 1: download access to hundreds of retro radio shows from the
Speaker 1: nineteen nineties, including some of my interviews with wrestling's top
Speaker 1: newsmakers in the nineties, and also our podcast library dating
Speaker 1: back to the year two thousand and three. There's no larger,
Speaker 1: longer spanning pro wrestling podcast library than that that comes
Speaker 1: with a PW Torch VIP membership. Now approaching twenty years
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