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Massive searches started 56 00:02:54.719 --> 00:02:58.439 and soon bodies began to turn up. This is a 57 00:02:58.520 --> 00:03:02.520 story of Rodney Alcala, the charming, good looking photographer that 58 00:03:02.639 --> 00:03:06.080 was in New York University studying under Roman Polanski and 59 00:03:06.159 --> 00:03:09.159 even once had won on the popular TV game show 60 00:03:09.439 --> 00:03:13.120 Dating Game, but now wanted for rape, torture and murder 61 00:03:13.199 --> 00:03:16.159 of several young girls. He would make the girl suffer 62 00:03:16.240 --> 00:03:18.639 until they passed out, then rape them, and when they 63 00:03:18.639 --> 00:03:21.120 came to, he would beat them again before killing them. 64 00:03:22.080 --> 00:03:22.599 Alan R. 65 00:03:22.639 --> 00:03:25.039 Warren, best selling true crime author and co host of 66 00:03:25.080 --> 00:03:27.840 House of Mystery, takes you through each step of the 67 00:03:27.879 --> 00:03:31.520 story in shocking detail, including details from the trials and 68 00:03:31.560 --> 00:03:34.479 the appeals that have been going on for over twenty years. 69 00:03:34.520 --> 00:03:37.719 While Alkala sits on Death Row, the book to a 70 00:03:37.759 --> 00:03:40.400 feature in the seating is The Killing Game, The True 71 00:03:40.400 --> 00:03:43.840 story of Rodney Alcala the game show Serial Killer, with 72 00:03:43.840 --> 00:03:47.319 my special guest Alan R. Warren, journalist and author and 73 00:03:47.400 --> 00:03:51.479 podcaster Alan o'warren. Welcome to the program, and thank you 74 00:03:51.599 --> 00:03:52.960 very much for agreeing in this interview. 75 00:03:54.520 --> 00:03:57.000 Ah it's my pleasure. It's always good to be here 76 00:03:57.039 --> 00:03:58.560 and good to talk to you again. 77 00:03:59.599 --> 00:04:03.960 Thank you very much for this interview. Gratulations on the 78 00:04:04.039 --> 00:04:09.000 Killing Game, a very very interesting, fascinating killer and an amazing, 79 00:04:11.199 --> 00:04:17.240 very very interesting case. Let's get right to a little 80 00:04:17.240 --> 00:04:23.120 bit about Rodney Alcola Alcala and tell us a little 81 00:04:23.120 --> 00:04:27.000 bit about his life. People know about him being born 82 00:04:27.040 --> 00:04:29.040 in the US and having go to Mexico. So tell 83 00:04:29.120 --> 00:04:31.879 us a little bit about how his early life and 84 00:04:31.920 --> 00:04:35.839 then what was characterized about his family life and what 85 00:04:36.199 --> 00:04:41.120 people knew about his early life. 86 00:04:41.240 --> 00:04:45.079 Well, it seems like he had a pretty normal upbringing, 87 00:04:45.120 --> 00:04:49.879 the middle class sort of upbringing, and he was in 88 00:04:50.079 --> 00:04:56.879 San Antonio, Texas, and he was one of four children, 89 00:04:56.920 --> 00:05:03.240 I believe, and they were from Mexico and had a 90 00:05:03.240 --> 00:05:07.040 pretty good life. He was a good student, no problems. 91 00:05:07.680 --> 00:05:13.199 In nineteen fifty one, his grandmother, who lived with him, 92 00:05:13.600 --> 00:05:17.040 became kind of sick. She became ill and it wasn't 93 00:05:17.680 --> 00:05:21.480 going to be a good outcome. So they decided that 94 00:05:22.040 --> 00:05:25.160 they would move back to Mexico so that she could 95 00:05:25.240 --> 00:05:28.439 be with her family and live out her days there. 96 00:05:29.360 --> 00:05:32.279 So the family up and went and moved back to 97 00:05:32.360 --> 00:05:38.240 Mexico and lived there for a while. The strange thing 98 00:05:38.279 --> 00:05:42.560 that happened there was after about a year, his father 99 00:05:42.720 --> 00:05:47.160 left and moved back to the States, to California, and 100 00:05:47.439 --> 00:05:50.680 left the family behind, you know, the kids and the 101 00:05:50.720 --> 00:05:55.399 mother and grandmother. And it wasn't until the grandmother died 102 00:05:56.439 --> 00:05:59.199 before the mother and kids moved back to the States 103 00:05:59.240 --> 00:06:02.480 as well. But when they did move back, they did 104 00:06:02.480 --> 00:06:06.360 not move back with the father, right. 105 00:06:07.680 --> 00:06:11.079 You say that. In nineteen sixty talk about a normal, 106 00:06:11.279 --> 00:06:16.680 fairly normal upbringing, regardless of the split. Back in Los Angeles, 107 00:06:16.720 --> 00:06:19.720 He's graduated top of his class and he was very popular, 108 00:06:20.319 --> 00:06:23.199 especially with the ladies, and always had a lot of dates. 109 00:06:23.920 --> 00:06:26.879 In nineteen sixty one, he joined the army and he 110 00:06:26.920 --> 00:06:29.000 worked as a clerk, and his brother was an inspiration 111 00:06:29.240 --> 00:06:33.680 was he was at at West Point. But one year in, 112 00:06:33.839 --> 00:06:37.879 you say that something happened that really seemed to affect him, 113 00:06:37.959 --> 00:06:40.879 especially when they looked at this incident later on what 114 00:06:41.000 --> 00:06:43.360 happened while he was in the army and then what 115 00:06:43.399 --> 00:06:44.399 did he do as a result. 116 00:06:45.680 --> 00:06:47.680 Well, when he was working there, he was working as 117 00:06:47.680 --> 00:06:51.560 a clerk. Wanted to be a paratrooper. About a year 118 00:06:51.600 --> 00:06:55.360 in his father died, and his father died suddenly. It 119 00:06:55.480 --> 00:07:00.000 was a shock, and so he had to come back 120 00:07:00.040 --> 00:07:02.519 for the funeral. So he went back for the service. 121 00:07:02.560 --> 00:07:08.560 He attended the service, and the whole family did, including 122 00:07:08.600 --> 00:07:12.759 the new wife, and everything seemed to be fine, like 123 00:07:12.800 --> 00:07:14.519 there were you know, there was the death. Of course 124 00:07:14.560 --> 00:07:17.959 it was sad, but everyone got along and there wasn't 125 00:07:18.000 --> 00:07:21.120 an issue. After the service, he went back to North 126 00:07:21.120 --> 00:07:26.680 Carolina and returned to his job. And it was a 127 00:07:26.720 --> 00:07:32.000 little bit later, it was really only about three four months. 128 00:07:32.040 --> 00:07:35.680 His mother was at home. She was cooking dinner for 129 00:07:36.000 --> 00:07:38.639 one night, and all of a sudden showed up at 130 00:07:38.639 --> 00:07:43.120 the door and she was like, well, what are you 131 00:07:43.240 --> 00:07:47.040 doing here here in the army in North Carolina, And 132 00:07:47.079 --> 00:07:51.120 he said, no, I've had it. I left, and she goes, well, 133 00:07:51.199 --> 00:07:54.639 did you get permission, liked, how did you leave? And 134 00:07:54.920 --> 00:07:57.680 he said, no, I just I just left. So she 135 00:07:58.959 --> 00:08:01.519 got really upset. She knew that would be considered a 136 00:08:01.600 --> 00:08:04.720 wall and they would be wanting him right, you can't 137 00:08:04.759 --> 00:08:09.079 just do that, so she talked him into turning himself in. 138 00:08:10.040 --> 00:08:12.399 So it was a few days later he turned himself in, 139 00:08:13.000 --> 00:08:16.600 and so then they decided that they would give him 140 00:08:16.600 --> 00:08:20.920 an analysis and just and check him out in the 141 00:08:20.959 --> 00:08:23.759 hospital and see how he was or see what was 142 00:08:23.800 --> 00:08:28.120 going on. His last person that was in charge of 143 00:08:28.199 --> 00:08:32.480 him said that he wasn't really doing his job since 144 00:08:32.519 --> 00:08:37.159 he came back from the funeral. He was distant, he 145 00:08:37.279 --> 00:08:41.120 wasn't paying attention, He just wasn't doing He used to 146 00:08:41.200 --> 00:08:43.639 be so efficient and such a good worker, and now 147 00:08:43.639 --> 00:08:46.279 all of a sudden he was just kind of just 148 00:08:46.399 --> 00:08:50.200 being there but not doing any of his job. So 149 00:08:50.399 --> 00:08:52.799 they actually determined that he had a type of a 150 00:08:52.840 --> 00:08:57.639 nervous breakdown, and back then they diagnosed him with anti 151 00:08:57.759 --> 00:09:02.360 social personality disorder and they give him a discharge on 152 00:09:02.480 --> 00:09:07.639 medical grounds. So that's kind of was the first big change, 153 00:09:07.720 --> 00:09:10.080 or you might say bump in the road. 154 00:09:11.399 --> 00:09:15.240 M you talk about too. This is five years later, 155 00:09:15.279 --> 00:09:18.600 and there's no incidents, but you say the first and 156 00:09:18.720 --> 00:09:21.159 we're talking about a doozy of an incident here. This 157 00:09:21.240 --> 00:09:25.279 is September twenty fifth, nineteen sixty eight, and the case 158 00:09:25.320 --> 00:09:31.919 of Tally Shapiro. And with this incredible story begins to 159 00:09:32.039 --> 00:09:36.320 unfold about a motorist that spots a man with a 160 00:09:36.360 --> 00:09:41.600 young girl. And this man's name is Donald Haynes. What 161 00:09:41.639 --> 00:09:45.120 does he see and why does he become suspicious and 162 00:09:45.159 --> 00:09:46.679 what does he do as a result. 163 00:09:47.480 --> 00:09:49.519 That's just well, you know that, yeah, and that was 164 00:09:49.559 --> 00:09:52.320 quite unique because you know, in nineteen sixty eight people 165 00:09:52.360 --> 00:09:57.000 were much more trusting, you know. But he noticed in 166 00:09:57.039 --> 00:10:00.200 what it was in West Hollywood, and the girl was 167 00:10:00.240 --> 00:10:03.720 walking down the boulevard and a man in a car 168 00:10:03.759 --> 00:10:06.559 pulled up and was talking to her and following her 169 00:10:06.600 --> 00:10:09.320 for her ways, and then eventually she got into the 170 00:10:09.320 --> 00:10:12.000 car and then they drove away, and they drove to 171 00:10:12.120 --> 00:10:16.840 his apartment. And he thought that was a weird He 172 00:10:16.879 --> 00:10:20.480 thought it was a really weird set up. So something 173 00:10:21.279 --> 00:10:24.360 told him to follow them, so he did. He followed them, 174 00:10:24.399 --> 00:10:27.080 and he saw them going to the endto the apartment, 175 00:10:27.600 --> 00:10:29.639 and so he got a little bit nervous and he 176 00:10:29.799 --> 00:10:32.279 went to a payphone, which we had them back then, 177 00:10:32.919 --> 00:10:36.279 and he actually picked it up and called the cops 178 00:10:36.879 --> 00:10:41.200 and said, this is really suspicious. I don't feel right 179 00:10:41.240 --> 00:10:45.480 about this. So the cops decided to follow up, and 180 00:10:45.519 --> 00:10:50.399 they came out to Rodney's apartment, and that was kind 181 00:10:50.440 --> 00:10:53.960 of the first incident that really happened. That was kind 182 00:10:53.960 --> 00:10:57.759 of weird, you know. So the cops came up and 183 00:10:58.879 --> 00:11:02.679 knocked on the door and knocked on the door, and 184 00:11:03.639 --> 00:11:08.320 eventually he answered just through the door, saying what who 185 00:11:08.360 --> 00:11:14.919 is it? What do you want? And and the cop said, well, 186 00:11:15.200 --> 00:11:17.440 we're doing a check up. You know, would have heard 187 00:11:17.440 --> 00:11:21.120 something and we're doing a safety check here, and so 188 00:11:22.519 --> 00:11:27.679 eventually he opened the door and that's when it all 189 00:11:27.759 --> 00:11:31.480 sort of They saw right away, they saw the girl 190 00:11:31.559 --> 00:11:36.200 laying on between the kitchen and the front room, right 191 00:11:36.240 --> 00:11:38.480 in the middle part, laying on the floor, and she 192 00:11:38.600 --> 00:11:43.360 was all covered in blood, and she wasn't moving. She 193 00:11:43.480 --> 00:11:48.960 wasn't there was no no motion coming from her. So 194 00:11:49.080 --> 00:11:53.840 they initially pushed him in the front door and started talking, 195 00:11:54.200 --> 00:11:57.600 and all of a sudden, the girl coughed and choked 196 00:11:57.720 --> 00:12:00.480 kind of, she started coughing. So the two car ran 197 00:12:00.639 --> 00:12:04.440 right away to her and started attending to her and 198 00:12:04.559 --> 00:12:07.559 to her she was still alive, so he grabbed a 199 00:12:07.639 --> 00:12:11.320 towel and you know, it was just all taking care 200 00:12:11.360 --> 00:12:14.639 of her. But at the same time what had happened 201 00:12:14.720 --> 00:12:18.679 was then Rodney ran out the back and disappeared. 202 00:12:21.960 --> 00:12:25.440 You say too that it was miraculous. And they took 203 00:12:26.360 --> 00:12:29.840 young Tally to the hospital and she stayed in thea 204 00:12:29.840 --> 00:12:33.360 coma for quite a while. So it was touch and go. 205 00:12:33.639 --> 00:12:36.200 And if he would have made the wrong decision to say, 206 00:12:36.279 --> 00:12:41.039 chase after Rodney Alcala, then she would have died. So 207 00:12:41.159 --> 00:12:47.960 that's was the prognosis. Now from this, what do police 208 00:12:48.000 --> 00:12:51.840 do in terms of they find the ID for Rodney Alcola, 209 00:12:52.600 --> 00:12:54.320 So what do they do as a result, and what 210 00:12:54.360 --> 00:12:56.879 does Rodney do as a result. 211 00:12:57.360 --> 00:13:01.120 Well, you know, so they knew they were dealing, they 212 00:13:01.159 --> 00:13:04.279 found the ID, they knew who the person was, so 213 00:13:04.639 --> 00:13:07.399 they started a search of course, and chatting with the parents, 214 00:13:07.440 --> 00:13:12.279 the neighbors, and at the time there were all sorts 215 00:13:12.320 --> 00:13:15.039 of rumors that he had probably ran back to Mexico, 216 00:13:15.120 --> 00:13:17.879 and somebody even said he probably went to Canada, which 217 00:13:17.960 --> 00:13:20.159 was kind of our Europe, which was kind of not 218 00:13:20.279 --> 00:13:24.000 really really the thing. I think the biggest worry was 219 00:13:24.039 --> 00:13:28.519 that he would go back to you know, Mexico where 220 00:13:28.559 --> 00:13:32.279 he could kind of hide out any new people. So 221 00:13:32.440 --> 00:13:37.960 they led to the FBI, and the FBI started doing 222 00:13:38.000 --> 00:13:41.399 a search as well, and he ended up on the 223 00:13:41.519 --> 00:13:45.440 FBI Most Wanted list in nineteen sixty nine, and he 224 00:13:45.639 --> 00:13:50.600 was all missing for a couple of years before anybody 225 00:13:50.639 --> 00:13:53.240 found him. Now, just so you know what he had 226 00:13:53.279 --> 00:13:57.879 done is he went to New Hampshire under a different name, 227 00:13:58.799 --> 00:14:01.919 John Berger, and he got a job at an all 228 00:14:02.080 --> 00:14:09.759 girls summer camp. Yeah, so you got this child a 229 00:14:09.879 --> 00:14:13.279 rapist because Kelly was eight, So you got this rapist. 230 00:14:13.720 --> 00:14:18.200 He's the at the all girls summer camp teaching now 231 00:14:18.240 --> 00:14:20.879 being at he was a counselor, so he was knighting 232 00:14:20.919 --> 00:14:27.080 them like unbelievable. And that school was dealing with from 233 00:14:27.120 --> 00:14:32.000 ages eight to fifteen, you know, and he got away 234 00:14:32.039 --> 00:14:35.600 with that for two years he was there. And how 235 00:14:35.639 --> 00:14:37.480 he got caught with Yeah, oh sorry, I was just 236 00:14:37.519 --> 00:14:39.399 going to say. Two girls that were at the camp 237 00:14:40.000 --> 00:14:42.080 walked to the post office just to mail a letter. 238 00:14:42.919 --> 00:14:45.600 And in the post office back then, they used to 239 00:14:45.679 --> 00:14:49.320 have the most wanted fixtures up and they saw him 240 00:14:49.360 --> 00:14:51.639 when they were waiting and they said, that just looks 241 00:14:51.679 --> 00:14:55.759 like counselor John Berger. So they told the dean, and 242 00:14:56.039 --> 00:14:58.639 the dean came and looked, and then he called the FBI, 243 00:14:59.720 --> 00:15:04.320 and the FBI came out to question mister Alcala, and 244 00:15:04.639 --> 00:15:07.399 of course they found out it was so they extra 245 00:15:07.480 --> 00:15:08.679 got him back to California. 246 00:15:10.600 --> 00:15:14.440 You also say that right away there presents a problem 247 00:15:14.600 --> 00:15:22.039 because they were looking for Rodney Alcola with Tally, and 248 00:15:22.639 --> 00:15:27.360 with that her parents had moved her. They were so traumatized, 249 00:15:27.360 --> 00:15:30.840 and of course she was as well that they moved 250 00:15:30.879 --> 00:15:34.559 her to Mexico, and there was indication to the prosecutor 251 00:15:34.600 --> 00:15:38.440 that they wouldn't be coming back for that prosecution. So 252 00:15:38.519 --> 00:15:41.200 in nineteen seventy one, when they got this incredible break 253 00:15:41.440 --> 00:15:45.600 with the two girls recognizing them off that post office, 254 00:15:45.799 --> 00:15:49.519 FBI wanted list. It created a problem right away, didn't 255 00:15:49.519 --> 00:15:51.039 it for that process? 256 00:15:51.159 --> 00:15:54.440 Yeah, you know, because they knew right away they had 257 00:15:54.080 --> 00:15:57.519 no witnesses, They didn't have the victim, they had no 258 00:15:57.600 --> 00:16:02.559 witnesses to testify, so just they had nothing. We all 259 00:16:02.639 --> 00:16:05.960 knew he did it. He knew he did it, everybody did. 260 00:16:05.960 --> 00:16:08.279 It was just one of those situations. Well, what in 261 00:16:08.320 --> 00:16:11.360 court we can't do anything here. We have very little 262 00:16:11.440 --> 00:16:14.440 to go on. We have the witness that saw him 263 00:16:14.480 --> 00:16:16.320 taking her in there, we saw that, we have the 264 00:16:16.360 --> 00:16:20.120 cops witnessing that she was raped and attacked in the hospital. 265 00:16:20.399 --> 00:16:23.399 So but it was all that's all secondary, it's not 266 00:16:23.840 --> 00:16:29.320 they had no primary anything, anybody there that could say, 267 00:16:29.600 --> 00:16:34.120 you know, anything. So eventually all they did was they 268 00:16:34.120 --> 00:16:40.639 give him and he settled for a something like giving 269 00:16:40.679 --> 00:16:44.559 giving to minors, you know, giving a bad influence. I 270 00:16:44.600 --> 00:16:47.320 think it was that had a special name for it. 271 00:16:47.879 --> 00:16:52.759 And so he got I think three years, and he 272 00:16:52.799 --> 00:16:55.399 spent one year in jail, then went out in probation 273 00:16:56.960 --> 00:16:58.320 contributing to miners. 274 00:16:58.360 --> 00:17:00.440 I got it correct, you hear. What he did get 275 00:17:00.480 --> 00:17:03.919 was one year to life with an indeterminate sentence. But 276 00:17:04.039 --> 00:17:08.200 he was paroled amazingly, as you write, thirty four months 277 00:17:08.279 --> 00:17:11.359 he was paroled out of that one year to life sentence, 278 00:17:11.599 --> 00:17:15.720 and you write that that's all. The detectives involved were 279 00:17:16.839 --> 00:17:22.599 again distraught that given the circumstances of Tally her attack, 280 00:17:22.720 --> 00:17:26.920 her rape, her kidnapping, and that she almost died, that 281 00:17:28.039 --> 00:17:29.839 he would get the one year to life, but also 282 00:17:30.039 --> 00:17:32.400 that the parole board would ignore that and give him 283 00:17:32.440 --> 00:17:35.839 parole in less than the three years. 284 00:17:35.960 --> 00:17:41.319 Yeah, the whole thing was pretty pretty soft. He really 285 00:17:41.359 --> 00:17:44.000 got nothing for it. He got a slap on the wrist. 286 00:17:44.839 --> 00:17:48.680 Yeah, certainly now you write that. Once he's free, he's 287 00:17:48.960 --> 00:17:52.200 again living with his mom. Who you know, he's living 288 00:17:52.200 --> 00:17:54.680 with his mother. He gets a job on the very 289 00:17:54.720 --> 00:17:58.599 first day as a photographer, you know, for a first 290 00:17:58.680 --> 00:17:59.720 day out of prison. 291 00:17:59.799 --> 00:18:00.000 Here. 292 00:18:00.160 --> 00:18:04.440 So and then you talk about October thirteenth, Huntington Beach 293 00:18:06.119 --> 00:18:09.400 and another incident where he comes into contact with police 294 00:18:09.880 --> 00:18:17.119 Julie Johnson and again, amazingly a testament to how well 295 00:18:17.200 --> 00:18:20.759 and charming and respectable, incredible this guy is. Tell us 296 00:18:20.759 --> 00:18:23.160 a little bit about this, just this incident with Julie 297 00:18:23.240 --> 00:18:27.960 Johnson as thirteen years old and this marijuana and the 298 00:18:28.000 --> 00:18:28.839 police officer. 299 00:18:30.480 --> 00:18:33.440 Yeah, you know that was a real strange one. He 300 00:18:33.920 --> 00:18:36.960 seemed to Yeah, he got he was real charming because 301 00:18:37.400 --> 00:18:39.279 to get a job first day out of prison, you 302 00:18:39.359 --> 00:18:41.279 know what I mean? He was just had this way 303 00:18:41.319 --> 00:18:44.440 about him. People liked him and they didn't even check 304 00:18:44.480 --> 00:18:48.759 on the references. But he was at a shopping mall, 305 00:18:49.279 --> 00:18:52.799 hunting and Beach, and that's when he pulled up on 306 00:18:53.000 --> 00:18:58.599 Julie Johnson and started talking to her, basically enticed her 307 00:18:58.599 --> 00:19:02.319 into going for a ride with him. You know, that 308 00:19:03.759 --> 00:19:07.680 talked about school, and then he started saying, well, you know, 309 00:19:07.720 --> 00:19:09.759 I have some great things at home I could show you. 310 00:19:09.759 --> 00:19:12.759 I have posters and I had some you know, really 311 00:19:12.799 --> 00:19:15.359 cool things, and he takes pictures and he does all 312 00:19:15.400 --> 00:19:19.359 this stuff. So, you know, she got in. They had 313 00:19:19.359 --> 00:19:25.559 a conversation and he told her too. It's one thing 314 00:19:25.599 --> 00:19:28.640 that's kind of unique. He came up with the name 315 00:19:28.839 --> 00:19:33.519 John Ronald, So he had a totally different name again 316 00:19:33.880 --> 00:19:39.359 at this part, which I'm not exactly sure. So he 317 00:19:39.839 --> 00:19:42.319 that to me shows that he was sort of planning 318 00:19:42.359 --> 00:19:45.400 this right away. He already had a name. He sort 319 00:19:45.440 --> 00:19:50.119 of had an idea, and so, you know, so he 320 00:19:50.200 --> 00:19:55.640 thinks her to the apartment and they're talking. He takes 321 00:19:55.640 --> 00:19:59.400 some of her pictures, and then she sort of got 322 00:19:59.440 --> 00:20:06.559 a little bit frightened with him, and and so but 323 00:20:06.720 --> 00:20:09.119 he basically later we found out it was kind of 324 00:20:09.119 --> 00:20:11.240 a mix up. Later we found out that he was 325 00:20:11.279 --> 00:20:13.519 in there and he told her to shut up, and 326 00:20:13.640 --> 00:20:17.799 he got really forceful with her, and that's sort of 327 00:20:17.799 --> 00:20:21.400 that how that happened. They went up to the to 328 00:20:21.519 --> 00:20:25.000 a beach a bluff, the bluffs they call it. It's 329 00:20:25.079 --> 00:20:27.880 kind of a high up outside of the main part 330 00:20:27.880 --> 00:20:32.519 of Huntington Beach. And and they he took out a 331 00:20:32.599 --> 00:20:37.240 joint and smoked some marijuana, and apparently she did too, 332 00:20:38.200 --> 00:20:42.240 and he was taking pictures and he was kind of 333 00:20:42.279 --> 00:20:44.960 and he started to get sexual with her and French 334 00:20:45.039 --> 00:20:50.880 guesser and assault her and all that. But who caught 335 00:20:50.880 --> 00:20:56.119 them actually at that time was a park ranger who 336 00:20:56.200 --> 00:20:58.640 was down on the beach saw them up there, and 337 00:20:58.680 --> 00:21:00.599 I guess there was a lot of kids the issues, 338 00:21:00.759 --> 00:21:04.200 you know, going on up there. So the park ranger 339 00:21:04.240 --> 00:21:06.559 decided he would go up there and check out and 340 00:21:06.599 --> 00:21:09.799 see what they were doing. And he could smell pot 341 00:21:09.839 --> 00:21:12.319 as he got up there too, and so he so 342 00:21:12.359 --> 00:21:14.880 he went right up to them and and surprised them. 343 00:21:16.400 --> 00:21:22.640 And the worst part about this is Julie was actually 344 00:21:22.680 --> 00:21:26.400 saying right from the beginning that he was trying to 345 00:21:26.400 --> 00:21:29.799 to attack her and rape her and do all this stuff. 346 00:21:29.839 --> 00:21:33.640 And al Keala turned around and said that no, that 347 00:21:34.960 --> 00:21:39.279 she was she was being friendly and she offered the pot, 348 00:21:40.119 --> 00:21:43.319 and there the ranger cuffed al Kala and took them 349 00:21:43.359 --> 00:21:47.559 both back to the to the office their their main station. 350 00:21:48.359 --> 00:21:54.000 But eventually they believed him more than her. And I 351 00:21:54.039 --> 00:21:56.680 think that was, as some of the park rangers said, 352 00:21:56.799 --> 00:21:59.160 was because what was going on up there a lot 353 00:21:59.279 --> 00:22:01.440 was a lot of cross institution. There's a lot of 354 00:22:01.480 --> 00:22:04.839 young girls up there, and they were offering to do 355 00:22:04.960 --> 00:22:07.920 things with older guys for money and different things, bought 356 00:22:08.440 --> 00:22:13.440 stuff like that. So that was kind of a that 357 00:22:13.559 --> 00:22:17.599 was a bizarre thing that happened, even though they were 358 00:22:17.640 --> 00:22:19.519 caught up there, Like, I don't know if that would 359 00:22:19.519 --> 00:22:20.119 happen today. 360 00:22:22.759 --> 00:22:24.920 Yeah, yes, you write that it was seen as a 361 00:22:24.920 --> 00:22:29.039 parole violation nonetheless, and he was returned for another two 362 00:22:29.039 --> 00:22:31.839 and a half years to prison. In nineteen seventy seven, 363 00:22:32.759 --> 00:22:36.920 he was paroled again immediately got a job as a 364 00:22:36.920 --> 00:22:40.920 typesetter at the La Times. And at this time, he write, 365 00:22:40.960 --> 00:22:45.480 he was taking photos at weddings and he was a 366 00:22:45.480 --> 00:22:48.640 sex offender. Nobody he was a registered sex offender. Nobody 367 00:22:48.720 --> 00:22:52.880 ever checked exactly and this one and you write too 368 00:22:53.079 --> 00:22:56.279 that he was trusted enough from his parole officer at 369 00:22:56.279 --> 00:23:01.000 that time to take a trip to New York July thirteenth, 370 00:23:01.119 --> 00:23:05.279 seventy seven. July seventy seven, and there was a woman 371 00:23:05.400 --> 00:23:09.920 named Ellen Jane Hover, twenty three years old, that went 372 00:23:09.960 --> 00:23:14.119 missing during that trip. And we'll talk about that as 373 00:23:14.279 --> 00:23:18.720 time goes on. And in Ellen Jane Hoover, which was 374 00:23:18.720 --> 00:23:23.000 interesting too, is that police found a date book. And 375 00:23:23.039 --> 00:23:27.200 in that date book what did they find in terms 376 00:23:27.240 --> 00:23:31.960 of incriminating evidence against Rodney Alkala? What was written in 377 00:23:32.000 --> 00:23:35.160 that date book that gave them pause for concern? 378 00:23:37.000 --> 00:23:41.799 Well, one thing, one thing to also notice about Ellen 379 00:23:41.880 --> 00:23:47.279 Hover was she was the goddaughter of Dean Martin and 380 00:23:49.079 --> 00:23:53.000 she was also her father owned at Cyril's nightclub in Hollywood, 381 00:23:53.799 --> 00:23:58.680 and there ended up being one hundred thousand dollars rewards, 382 00:23:58.680 --> 00:24:06.279 So she was closely tied to to everyone. And and 383 00:24:06.279 --> 00:24:07.920 and I also want to go back. You know when 384 00:24:07.960 --> 00:24:11.319 you say la times as a typesetter, do you realize 385 00:24:11.319 --> 00:24:14.160 that how quick he was able to get jobs with 386 00:24:14.240 --> 00:24:20.960 these these places and not have any references or checks bade? Yeah, 387 00:24:21.240 --> 00:24:24.440 you know, like I think that's that's that's a really 388 00:24:25.960 --> 00:24:29.599 pivotal thing because he got away with so many things 389 00:24:29.640 --> 00:24:34.720 because of his personality. So yeah, And and in the 390 00:24:34.799 --> 00:24:37.119 in the book, I believe the biggest thing was that 391 00:24:37.640 --> 00:24:42.680 she had set up a date with a photographer named 392 00:24:42.839 --> 00:24:47.839 John Burder, and and it was listed I think it 393 00:24:47.920 --> 00:24:51.839 was for July fifteenth, and so, so she had an 394 00:24:51.880 --> 00:24:58.599 appointment with John Burder, the photographer, who was Rodney L. Kellis, 395 00:24:58.720 --> 00:25:01.160 you know, one of his names that he used when 396 00:25:01.200 --> 00:25:04.039 he was a New Hampshires. So that kind of gave 397 00:25:04.119 --> 00:25:06.400 a way right away who they were going to go 398 00:25:06.480 --> 00:25:14.200 after or who who likely had the interaction with her. 399 00:25:15.119 --> 00:25:18.480 You talk about too that eleven months after this, after 400 00:25:18.559 --> 00:25:22.559 who she disappears, her bodies has found and Ellen's bodies 401 00:25:22.599 --> 00:25:25.119