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Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, Welcome back to the Shirley You Can't Be

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Serious podcast this week as we dive into run DMC

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in our two part hip hop episode, d you okay?

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Speaker 2: I don't know, man.

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Speaker 3: I'm feeling pretty bad, but not bad meaning bad, bad

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meaning good.

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Speaker 4: It's so tricky.

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Speaker 3: Welcome back, everybody. We are in the second album of

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our two album Comparison from nineteen eighty six, the two

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albums that brought the New School of hip hop to

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the forefront of mainstream.

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Speaker 4: These are the trend centers.

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Speaker 5: These are the trailblazing albums for hip hop.

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Speaker 3: And we've got with us today our friend mister David Wright,

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otherwise known as Deaf Dave. How you doing, Dave?

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Speaker 2: Do it great? David? Right, Deaf Dave.

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Speaker 6: My pronouns are the Lord of lyrics, the Duke of

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the discussion in the Son of Byford.

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Speaker 5: That's awesome, Davin. We're so glad to have you back.

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You are a hip hop expert, and that's why we

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invited you here. The lyrics and the rhymes are just

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going to start falling out of your mouth as soon

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as we get going here.

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Speaker 6: I will say I'm an expert on wrap from the

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eighties for sure, and I'm fascinated by the history of

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how it all got started in the seventies, so I'm

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excited to be able to talk.

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Speaker 2: About it with you.

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Speaker 5: Okay, So in this episode, we're going to do a

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little bit on the history of rap. We'll do a

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little bit about the beginnings and the origins of Run

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DMC and where they got started and how they got going.

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And then in our next episode we'll go track my

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track through the Raising Hell album.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we're midway through this series of episodes. If you

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have not caught our Beastie Boys episode, go back two

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episodes and hear the story of the Beastie Boys from

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way back in history, and then listen to our epic

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track by track coverage of Licensed to Ill.

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Speaker 5: That's right, And at the end of the track by

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track and Raising Hell, all three of us are going

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to give our final judgment on which album we feel

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is the superior album of nineteen eighty six. It's gonna

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be amazing, all right. Well, Dave get us started on

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the history of rap and what we need to know

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before we can make our final judgment.

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Speaker 3: Here.

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Speaker 6: Well, I'm gonna pick up the story in the twentieth century.

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This time, I'm not going to take you back to

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the eighteen hundreds.

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Speaker 4: Okay good.

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Speaker 6: The birth of hip hop and the story we're telling

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today is a tale of two Jamaicas. On April sixteenth,

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nineteen fifty five, in Kingston, Jamaica, Keith and Neddie Campbell

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gave birth to the first of their six children, a

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little boy named Clive. A little over two years later,

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in October of nineteen fifty seven, in Jamaica, Queen's, Daniel

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and Evelyn Simmons gave birth to their second son, Us. Now,

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Daniel and Evelyn each held a pair of degrees from

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Howard University, and they had moved to Queens when Daniel

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had gotten a job as a public school administrator, and

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just a few years later, in nineteen sixty four, they

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moved to the slightly better neighborhood neighboring neighborhood of Hollis, Queens,

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and just a couple of weeks later, in November of

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nineteen sixty four, they gave birth to their third son,

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Joseph Simmons. So that's where the tale of two Jamaica's begins.

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But the Simmons family doesn't really come into play for

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another ten years or so. But in nineteen sixty seven,

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the Campbell family moved from Kingston, Jamaica to the Bronx

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and they moved into a tenement building called Sedgwick Towers.

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Speaker 5: So, just for the record, in nineteen sixty four, that

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was Joseph's first Christmas in Hollis.

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Speaker 4: Is that what you're.

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Speaker 2: Saying, that is exactly right? Okay? Okay, good, good, okay.

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But if you go back to.

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Speaker 6: The Campbell family, in nineteen sixty seven, the Campbell's moved

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from Kingston, Jamaica to the Bronx, to a tenement building

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called Sedgwick Towers. And this is when young Clive, the

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first of their children, was twelve years old. When Clive

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was in high school, he'd only grown up to be

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about five foot eight, but he had turned into real

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sturdy guys. He was buff, he was strong, and he

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was physically dominant on the basketball court. And because of

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his physical strength, his basketball teammates gave him the nickname

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of Hercules. A couple of years later, one of his sisters,

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named Cindy, she needed some extra money for clothes, so

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they tried to figure out a way to raise a

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little bit of money, and Clive remembered when he was

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living in Jamaica, they have dance halls in Jamaica. I

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don't know if it's traditional to Jamaica or if it's

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just kind of traditional to maybe like the equivalent of

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their party scene. And so he borrowed his dad's sound system,

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set it up in the community room of this tenement building,

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and they decided to throw a party to raise money

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so Cindy can get some clothes.

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Speaker 2: And with you so far, spoiler Lord.

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Speaker 6: It was a huge success, but it was enough fun

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that they kept doing it and kept doing it, and

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the reputation of these parties began to grow, and the

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crowd started to get bigger. And so the nickname that

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his basketball teammates had given him and started calling himself

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DJ Cool Hirk Okay. So that is probably right there.

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Why we have the tradition of rappers and DJs.

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Speaker 2: Giving themselves nicknames. And in nineteen seventy.

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Speaker 6: Two he discovered this is what I love about the

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history of hip hop is that the origins are very

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specific and they're very known. In nineteen seventy two, he

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came up with the idea of setting up two turntables

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at the same time so that he can cut quickly

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between two records. This had never really been done before,

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and what he had learned from studying the crowd was

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that the favorite part of any song they played was

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when it broke down into like a percussion break in

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the middle of the song. So he decided, what if

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I only played the percussion breaks, only played the beats

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from these breaks. And what he did was what he

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would cue up the percussion breaks, the break beats on

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each turntable and when it would and when the break

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would come to an end on one, he'd play the

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other turntable. Okay, by doing this he could extend the

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good part. What he discovered was have two copies of

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the same record, and by chewing the beginning of the

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breakup and have it ready to go by the time

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it's ending on the other record, he can go back

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and forth. He could extend that break beat as they

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called it, indefinitely. This is what DJ cool Hirk was

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famous for. He came up with a routine that would

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cut between three different records, and the very first Merry

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Go Round routine he came up with included turn it

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up and Set it Loose by James Brown, Bongo Rock

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by the Incredible Bongo Band, and the Mexican by Babe Ruth.

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These all three had these percussion breaks in them, and

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he would just rotate between the three of them and

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keep them going for a long time, and the crowd

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would just go nuts and go nuts and go nuts.

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This was the very beginning of what became hip hop.

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Speaker 3: Awesome, awesome Okay.

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Speaker 6: So by playing these extended breakbeats, the crowd would jump

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in and start dancing. And the longer that he kept

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this thing going, the more they would dance and the

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crazier their dance moves would get. And so these people

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that were dancing during these breaks, these were the breakdancers.

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Speaker 2: This is how you get the term breakdancing.

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Speaker 4: The break okay, Yeah, I get it, I get it. Okay,

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I love it.

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Speaker 6: He had a regular group of guys who were like

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particularly acrobatic and inventive on the dance floor. He called

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them his break boys, which became bee boys. So that's

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why any hip hopper is now known as a bee boy.

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So now you're coming between twin records, between two turntables,

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you've got breakdancers and you've got bee boys. Wow.

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Speaker 3: So in nineteen seventy four, there was a movie that

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came out called Earthquake. Are you familiar with it?

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Speaker 2: No? I don't know this, okay.

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Speaker 3: So the movie amount called Earthquake in nineteen seventy four,

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which is for that movie, they created something called the

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sin surround sound. It was specifically to give the audience

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an enhanced experience so they could actually feel the earthquake,

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and they had to use special speakers. They designed and

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created special speakers for this, and all of the DJs

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who were now playing in not just the gymnasium or whatever,

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but also playing in the park, said, if we can

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recreate these speakers, we can have the loudest speakers around.

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And so they reverse engineered it, figured out how to

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make the earthquake speakers, and that's how they got the

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name earthquake speakers.

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Speaker 2: Wow.

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Speaker 3: And then they would have dancers who were like dancing

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on top of the speakers, and I've seen it. They

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will stop the music and say, hey, get off the speakers.

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Speaker 6: So in Jamaica, there's this tradition called dance toasting, which

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is very similar to what we would know is rapping,

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where someone is taking a microphone and speaking over some

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music that's playing back with the purpose of exciting the

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crowd and entertaining them. And so something cool Hirk added

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to his routine with all this break dancing going on

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with the B Boys is he started encouraging the crowd

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and hyping them up by grabbing a mic and starting

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to give real simple rhymes that was on.

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Speaker 2: Beat with the with the braakelop that he was playing.

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Speaker 6: But what he soon found out, because you know, keep

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in mind, all he had was two turntables. He didn't

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have a modern system with a with a fade, a crossfader,

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or a switch or mix or anything. He was kind

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of doing all this manually and trying to stay on

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time with it all, and it was a little too

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much to try to.

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Speaker 2: Add the toasting.

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Speaker 6: So what he did is he delegated that to a

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friend of his, and that is how Coke LaRock became

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history's first MC. And so in the Jamaican toasting halls,

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they were known as Master of Ceremonies. So Coke LaRock

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is the name of the first MC in hip hop.

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Now we mentioned scottlar Rock in the BC Boys episodes,

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and fans of eighties rap may recognize the name Scottlarock

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from Boogie Down productions. Both those guys know their history

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because both of those names are an homage to Cochlarock,

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the very first rapper. This is all happening at Sedgwick Towers.

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This is right there at Hirk's home, and all this

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innovation is happening within seventy two and seventy three. As

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a matter of fact, according to the PBS documentary series

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History Detectives, they were able to pinpoint the exact birth

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of Rap. It was on August eleventh, nineteen seventy three,

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in the community room of Sedgwick Towers at fifteen twenty

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Sedgwick Avenue. Right there in the community room, two turntables,

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extending the break, dancing with wrapping on the microphone. August eleventh,

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nineteen seventy three, rap is born, and it's all from

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DJ cool hurt.

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Speaker 4: God to say that, dush.

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Speaker 5: Hey, every time, every time you say two turntables, I'm

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like and a microphone.

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Speaker 4: He wanted to say two turntables and a microphone.

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Speaker 6: As it turns out, Cool Heart would not keep up

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with all the innovations that would quickly come in the

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following decade, but he is known as the originator. As

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a matter of fact, he never put out any recorded

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material until twenty nineteen he did his.

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Speaker 2: First album, Really Yes Wow.

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Speaker 6: But he's always been known and recognized and respected as

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the originator of rap. As a matter of fact, in

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the year two thousand and seven, the State of New

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York officially decplared the Sedgewick Building to be the birthplace

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of hip hop, and it has since been nominated for

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inclusion on the National Registry of Historic Places. That's fantastic, man,

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So I'd mentioned that he did not he did not

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really keep up with the innovators that come. But what

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happened was here we are seventy three going into seventy four,

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and his parties were growing. They were growing in size,

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and they were growing in reputation. He began to gain

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status just through like his name being whispered on the streets.

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And you had to understand that in the seventies, especially

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the first half of the seventies, the Bronx was a

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scary place. In nineteen seventy three, there was a member

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of the Black Spades gang whose name was Lance Taylor,

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and he went to his first Cool Hirk party and

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while there he had this vision of what he could

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do to make the Bronx a safer place. Now, it

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would be a couple of years before he was able

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to realize this vision. In the meantime, there was this

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kid named Joseph Sadler who had been born in Barbados

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but had moved to the Bronx and he had become

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a regular attendee at Hirk's parties, and as a matter

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of fact, Hurk had kind of taken him under his

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wing as sort of an acolyte. And Joseph Sadler had

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been to a vocational high school and he was able

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to take some of his mechanical electric engineering skills that

247
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he had learned there, and he built the very first

248
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Q monitor, which you could add to the system of

249
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the two turntables as a way to preview the entrance

250
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point of your next record, so he could be more

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precise with that. That was an innovation that allowed for

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more precision in the DJ's routine. So this innovation gave

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him the edge over cool Herd with this with this

254
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Q monitor added to the system, so he went out

255
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and began throwing his own parties under the name of

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Grandmaster Flash.

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Speaker 5: Oh wow, that's awesome.

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Speaker 6: So this is a period of intense creation and innovation.

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This is all brand new, so a lot of people

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are jumping on board with this idea and they're trying

261
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new themes. Grandmaster Flash had his own disciple, his own apprentice,

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whose name was Theodore Livingston. So Theodore was just trying

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to learn how to do all this stuff. He was

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learning it from Grandmaster Flash. And one day he was

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up in his bedroom working with two turntables, just practicing,

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trying to figure it out, and his mom busted in

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and said, what's that noise? And so it kind of

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scared him. He kind of jumped in. He put his

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hand down on the record to stop it because he

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had talked to his mom, and when he put his

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hand down on it, it kind of slipped under the

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needle and then made this cool little zipping sound, and

273
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he goes, WHOA, what was that? And he did it again,

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and he went back and forth a few more times,

275
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and then he started doing it in rhythm.

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Speaker 2: And that is how scratching.

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Speaker 6: The technique of scratching was invented by accident because Theodore

278
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Livingstone's mother scared him.

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Speaker 4: You're bringing him strong tonight, man, you really are.

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Speaker 6: And Theodore Livingstone is now better known as Grand Wizard Theodore.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 6: So he's one of the big names from the seventies

283
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and he's credited with inventing scratching.

284
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Speaker 2: Wow.

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Speaker 6: So nineteen seventy five, Coolhirk is still throwing his parties

286
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and Lance Taylor, if you remember Lance Taylor, he had

287
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had that vision in nineteen seventy three of how to

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make the Bronx a safer place. He had been running

289
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with the Black Space, which is one of the more

290
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violent gangs in the Bronx, But by nineteen seventy five

291
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Lance had begun djaying and he quickly earned the reputation

292
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for playing ultra rare break beats. Okay, so that's what

293
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they called these percussion breaks that they were always looking

294
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for because that's just the part they wanted. They wanted

295
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that part, nothing else. They could just play that.

296
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Speaker 2: Well.

297
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Speaker 6: It quickly got to the point where everybody was familiar

298
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with the common ones, and so he was looking for

299
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more obscure records to reveal beats that no one had

300
00:15:39,320 --> 00:15:42,600
heard before. And so he specialized in finding the most

301
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obscure songs, primarily from funk and soul, but from a

302
00:15:45,799 --> 00:15:46,480
wider ray.

303
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Speaker 2: So with his.

304
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Speaker 6: Heightened influence that he had from running these parties, Lance

305
00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:55,080
Taylor was able to successfully realize his vision of how

306
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to make the Bronx a safer place, and he basically

307
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co opted the Black Spades and turned them into He

308
00:16:02,759 --> 00:16:06,159
renamed them the Zulu Nation, and he began to call

309
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himself Africa Bambada.

310
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Speaker 2: And he used hip hop and wrap.

311
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Speaker 6: And creative expression as a way to channel the kids

312
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on the street, channel their energy in a positive way

313
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in order to move them away from crime and away

314
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from violence and just steer them into these creative outlets.

315
00:16:29,039 --> 00:16:34,799
Africa Bambada he created basically that DJ virtue of crate digging,

316
00:16:34,879 --> 00:16:37,799
where you just go looking for the most obscure record

317
00:16:37,840 --> 00:16:39,519
that's going to have a cool beat that no one's

318
00:16:39,519 --> 00:16:40,360
heard before.

319
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Speaker 3: Which is how he happened to be able to hear

320
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Cookie Puss.

321
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Speaker 4: Is that right? It has to be right? Probably?

322
00:16:45,759 --> 00:16:49,120
Speaker 3: So I mean talk about an obscure album. Yeah, three

323
00:16:49,200 --> 00:16:52,279
white kids from Brooklyn, Yeah yo, I want.

324
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Speaker 4: To talk to Cookie Puss Man Cookie Bus.

325
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Speaker 2: Okay.

326
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Speaker 6: So those are the three giants cool Her, Grandmaster Flash

327
00:17:01,360 --> 00:17:05,759
and Africa Bambada. They are the giants of hip hop.

328
00:17:05,799 --> 00:17:07,680
If you're gonna have a mount Rushmore. Those are three

329
00:17:07,720 --> 00:17:11,319
of the faces right there. Okay, what this created in

330
00:17:11,359 --> 00:17:15,680
the seventies was this breakbeat culture, this DJ party culture.

331
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Speaker 2: There was something new.

332
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Speaker 6: It was just kind of had risen, kind of grassroots,

333
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and people were sneaking recorders into these parties and making

334
00:17:25,079 --> 00:17:28,160
these bootleg mixtapes and they were selling them on the

335
00:17:28,200 --> 00:17:31,079
street and the DJs usually they didn't know anything about it,

336
00:17:31,319 --> 00:17:34,039
but they were selling these mixtapes on the street and

337
00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:37,279
these served to kind of spread the gospel, and so

338
00:17:37,559 --> 00:17:41,640
kids outside of Manhattan, outside the Brons and the other Burroughs,

339
00:17:41,880 --> 00:17:44,640
these mixtapes kind of made their way out to the suburbs,

340
00:17:44,839 --> 00:17:47,640
and so this idea was catching on and it was

341
00:17:47,680 --> 00:17:50,079
all just organic. And I just find all of that

342
00:17:50,240 --> 00:17:52,920
very cool that there was this new way of playing

343
00:17:52,960 --> 00:17:57,079
records that basically turned the DJ into the star into

344
00:17:57,119 --> 00:17:59,759
the entertainer, where it was all based on taking pre

345
00:18:00,039 --> 00:18:05,079
existing material and remixing it in a new way. So

346
00:18:05,720 --> 00:18:11,359
it's basically editing for entertainment. It's live looping, live editing

347
00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:17,359
for entertainment. I've always found that extremely fascinating, and I

348
00:18:17,440 --> 00:18:20,519
have to say it impacted me professionally, impacted my career

349
00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:24,799
because I'm a professional video producer, I'm a video editor,

350
00:18:24,880 --> 00:18:28,119
and that charge I get from taking different material, raw

351
00:18:28,160 --> 00:18:30,839
material and crafting something new out of it is the

352
00:18:30,839 --> 00:18:34,039
same thing that interested me about hip hop and about

353
00:18:34,079 --> 00:18:37,160
these early days in the Bronx in the seventies with

354
00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:39,960
so much innovation and creativity going on all at the

355
00:18:40,039 --> 00:18:44,440
same time. Okay, so these were still largely house parties

356
00:18:44,519 --> 00:18:47,559
or block parties, but the scene was getting too big.

357
00:18:47,599 --> 00:18:50,640
This was something new and something different, and so what

358
00:18:50,680 --> 00:18:53,680
was happening is in the cold months, they were actually

359
00:18:53,720 --> 00:18:57,680
starting to book venues. They would rent out clubs or

360
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rent out these venues to throw their parties, which now

361
00:19:00,880 --> 00:19:03,000
these were becoming events that needed to be promoted.

362
00:19:03,079 --> 00:19:04,400
Speaker 2: In the summertime, they would.

363
00:19:04,240 --> 00:19:05,920
Speaker 6: Just go out to the park and they could They

364
00:19:05,960 --> 00:19:10,359
could plug their turntables up to the telephone pole and

365
00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:11,559
just start doing their thing.

366
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Speaker 2: The crowd would gather and.

367
00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:17,279
Speaker 6: So these it created as a snowball effect of so

368
00:19:17,319 --> 00:19:19,759
many people trying to learn the secrets of this of

369
00:19:19,839 --> 00:19:22,519
this new trade, and so you had all these DJs

370
00:19:22,559 --> 00:19:24,559
coming up. One of the more prominent DJs of the

371
00:19:24,599 --> 00:19:28,319
seventies from this new breed of DJ was someone.

372
00:19:28,039 --> 00:19:29,319
Speaker 2: On as DJ Hollywood.

373
00:19:29,440 --> 00:19:32,000
Speaker 6: And so you have to understand that at this time

374
00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:36,319
rapping right MC's were they were strictly in a supporting role.

375
00:19:36,759 --> 00:19:39,680
That the DJ was the clear star and the MC

376
00:19:39,960 --> 00:19:42,799
was really more like a hype man. He wasn't really

377
00:19:42,799 --> 00:19:44,960
trying to perform a song. He was just trying to

378
00:19:44,960 --> 00:19:47,640
get the crowd going. So it was very simplistic party rhymes,

379
00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:50,119
you know, like throw your hands in the air, wave

380
00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:52,000
them like you just don't care, and it was nothing

381
00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:54,720
more complicated than that, like on and on until the

382
00:19:54,759 --> 00:19:57,920
break of dawn. Well that was this DJ named DJ Hollywood,

383
00:19:58,079 --> 00:20:01,000
in the vein of rapping like that, he came up

384
00:20:01,079 --> 00:20:02,640
with the rhyme he was in winter.

385
00:20:02,640 --> 00:20:05,440
Speaker 4: Wait wait wait rapping like this and like this and

386
00:20:05,519 --> 00:20:06,119
like that.

387
00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:09,440
Speaker 2: Like this is like that is like this ya.

388
00:20:11,359 --> 00:20:16,799
Speaker 3: Please do that lots and lots Okay, I got you

389
00:20:16,960 --> 00:20:18,599
keep going okay.

390
00:20:18,839 --> 00:20:22,200
Speaker 6: So so it was DJ Hollywood who, in the vein

391
00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:26,440
of doing these type of simplistic improvised rhymes, he came

392
00:20:26,559 --> 00:20:29,839
up with the rhyme hip hop hip to the hippity

393
00:20:29,960 --> 00:20:32,160
hip hip hopping you don't stop rocking to Baine Bain

394
00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:34,079
boogie s hit up, jump the bullget to the rhythm

395
00:20:34,079 --> 00:20:38,160
of the boogety beat, and that caught on, so that hip.

396
00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:39,799
Speaker 2: Hop hippie to the hippity hip hop.

397
00:20:39,960 --> 00:20:43,480
Speaker 6: Finally, this movement, this new culture had a name and

398
00:20:43,519 --> 00:20:46,480
it was called hip hop and it came from DJ

399
00:20:46,559 --> 00:20:48,240
Hollywood's improvised rhyme that.

400
00:20:48,240 --> 00:20:52,400
Speaker 5: Night, nice, nice, great, dude, you're hitting grand slam after

401
00:20:52,440 --> 00:20:53,039
grand slam.

402
00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:53,599
Speaker 4: Keep going.

403
00:20:53,839 --> 00:20:57,599
Speaker 6: So this initial period from nineteen seventy three at Sedgwick

404
00:20:57,640 --> 00:21:01,960
Towers up through about seventy eight, nineteen seventy eight, this era.

405
00:21:02,079 --> 00:21:05,559
Speaker 2: Was hip hop one point zero. This was the original scene.

406
00:21:05,599 --> 00:21:10,920
Speaker 6: This was the grassroots, organic creation of something new.

407
00:21:10,799 --> 00:21:12,759
Speaker 2: And it all started in the Bronx.

408
00:21:12,920 --> 00:21:16,640
Speaker 3: Well, you talked about DJ Hollywood and it was around

409
00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:19,599
this time he talked about seventy eight. Is around seventy seven.

410
00:21:20,039 --> 00:21:23,240
He had a close friend named Eddie Chiba, And this

411
00:21:23,319 --> 00:21:25,839
is this is kind of where your two Jamaica's meet

412
00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:30,720
because Eddie Chiba DJ Hollywood. They would influence each other's styles,

413
00:21:30,839 --> 00:21:34,440
grow from each other. And one night, a guy who

414
00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:38,160
you had mentioned earlier, who was born in Jamaica Queen's,

415
00:21:38,680 --> 00:21:41,720
happened to have dropped out of college and be trying

416
00:21:41,720 --> 00:21:45,079
to look for something to do and he came across

417
00:21:45,279 --> 00:21:47,920
Eddie Chiba and he said, this is what I want

418
00:21:47,960 --> 00:21:49,559
to do for the rest of my life.

419
00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:50,880
Speaker 2: That was Russell Simmons.

420
00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:54,160
Speaker 6: That's like the Blues Brothers having that moment in the

421
00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:55,880
church where the light hits them and they started doing

422
00:21:55,920 --> 00:21:56,359
part will.

423
00:21:58,440 --> 00:21:58,720
Speaker 2: Yeah.

424
00:21:58,759 --> 00:22:02,640
Speaker 6: So what had happened was in nineteen seventy five, Russell

425
00:22:02,759 --> 00:22:05,400
Simmons was out of high school and he had got

426
00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:09,240
busted for smoking pot and his dad said, nope, you're

427
00:22:09,279 --> 00:22:11,799
going to college, and he kicked him out and he

428
00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:14,920
went over to Harlem and he enrolled at City College

429
00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:18,559
of New York. While there, he met a friend named

430
00:22:18,799 --> 00:22:21,680
He made friends with a guy named Rudy Toppin, and

431
00:22:21,839 --> 00:22:25,599
Rudy was into party promotion. He was plugged into this

432
00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:28,319
new breed, a DJ type of party scene, and he

433
00:22:28,440 --> 00:22:30,440
was one of these guys that was going around promoting

434
00:22:30,519 --> 00:22:33,359
these club events that had started growing out of these

435
00:22:33,359 --> 00:22:37,119
house parties. And so he brought Russell along to help

436
00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:40,559
him out. And so this was Russell's first hustle. He

437
00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:43,200
was into party promoting. By the way, it was during

438
00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:48,160
this time Rudy observed Russell's high energy work ethic and

439
00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:52,839
gave him the nickname of Rush. So Russ has the

440
00:22:53,079 --> 00:22:57,759
nickname of Rush. And so there was this one night

441
00:22:57,839 --> 00:23:01,480
in nineteen seventy seven at Charles where they walk in

442
00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:05,720
and Eddie Chiba is wrapping over a looped brake or

443
00:23:05,839 --> 00:23:09,039
looped intro to flashlight by Parliament.

444
00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:12,680
Speaker 4: Just keep down, We're gonna do a little like a eel.

445
00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:14,720
Speaker 2: We continue you all with the news.

446
00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:16,359
Speaker 6: How for you to be?

447
00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:19,599
Speaker 2: This was the I see the light moment. And in

448
00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:20,599
that moment.

449
00:23:20,799 --> 00:23:24,680
Speaker 6: Russ had he got hit up beside the head and

450
00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:27,680
he said, this is the future. This is my future.

451
00:23:28,359 --> 00:23:32,839
This is something real. And his first instinct was how

452
00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:33,279
am I going.

453
00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:34,160
Speaker 2: To make money off of it?

454
00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:40,119
Speaker 6: Yeah, he recognized before anybody else. He recognized that this

455
00:23:40,279 --> 00:23:42,759
was marketable and that people could get paid.

456
00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:43,720
Speaker 3: Uh huh.

457
00:23:44,559 --> 00:23:47,160
Speaker 6: The people that were there in the one point oh stage,

458
00:23:47,519 --> 00:23:49,519
they were just there. It was a new way to party,

459
00:23:49,559 --> 00:23:51,359
you know. It was just the DJ playing records at

460
00:23:51,359 --> 00:23:53,039
a club. He was just putting a twist on it.

461
00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:57,359
But Russell was the first person to see that this

462
00:23:57,440 --> 00:24:00,480
could be monetized and that this could be marketing. He

463
00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:03,720
was the first businessman, the visionary that could turn this

464
00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:05,599
all into something viable.

465
00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:08,240
Speaker 2: He decided he was going to get into his own promoter.

466
00:24:08,319 --> 00:24:11,200
Speaker 6: He quit working with Rudy and he started promoting his

467
00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:14,240
own He was friends with the program director at the

468
00:24:14,279 --> 00:24:16,200
college radio station the college.

469
00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:16,759
Speaker 2: Where he was attending.

470
00:24:16,839 --> 00:24:21,279
Speaker 6: The program director's name was Curtis Walker, and so they

471
00:24:21,319 --> 00:24:22,960
began promoting their own events.

472
00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:27,400
Speaker 2: So you have to understand that Russell was the visionary.

473
00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:30,559
Speaker 6: Who took hip hop from these ad hoc parties to

474
00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:33,559
like organized concerts and ticketed events and that kind of thing.

475
00:24:33,599 --> 00:24:36,279
He was kind of the trailblazer in kind of finding

476
00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:39,440
places that would take these acts, and then a circuit

477
00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:41,440
developed where you could just kind of make you could

478
00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:44,680
just make the rounds booking your act. And one of

479
00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:48,119
these other promoters during this same time, one of his

480
00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:52,519
competing promoters was a guy by the name of Junior Rames.

481
00:24:52,799 --> 00:24:55,759
Now you probably haven't heard of Junior Rames, but you've

482
00:24:55,759 --> 00:24:58,559
heard of his brother, actor being Rams.

483
00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:00,279
Speaker 3: Wow.

484
00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:03,240
Speaker 4: Nice, that is a nice nugget right there.

485
00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:08,359
Speaker 6: So they were booking all these events, and they were

486
00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:13,000
developing this circuit and they were promoting parties. Russell was

487
00:25:13,039 --> 00:25:17,119
the businessman, but Curtis Walker was the star. He was

488
00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:20,519
the rapper on stage that people were coming to see

489
00:25:20,599 --> 00:25:25,160
and he went by the name of Curtis Blow.

490
00:25:25,319 --> 00:25:28,799
Speaker 2: You know where he got blow from? Cocaine?

491
00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:34,559
Speaker 3: Right, wait a minute, what edie eddie? Chiba? Chiba is

492
00:25:34,599 --> 00:25:37,279
another name for marijuana. And they're like, well, Curtis Walker,

493
00:25:37,319 --> 00:25:39,039
that's no good. What do we got a drug that's

494
00:25:39,039 --> 00:25:41,119
better than marijuana? About Curtis Blow?

495
00:25:42,759 --> 00:25:43,640
Speaker 2: Wait, keeping on.

496
00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:49,759
Speaker 6: The first MC ever was coke LaRock, So this was

497
00:25:49,799 --> 00:25:53,279
working the first party. The first party that Russell threw

498
00:25:53,319 --> 00:25:55,759
on his own was eight hundred people showed up for

499
00:25:55,799 --> 00:25:57,640
it and it only held six hundred people.

500
00:25:58,240 --> 00:25:59,559
Speaker 2: He was flushed with cash.

501
00:25:59,559 --> 00:26:03,279
Speaker 6: He made the money. He was happy. He was thrilled

502
00:26:03,279 --> 00:26:05,559
to death. So he and Curtis were in business and

503
00:26:05,839 --> 00:26:07,960
he would go home. Russell would go him.

504
00:26:07,839 --> 00:26:08,759
Speaker 2: Home to Queens.

505
00:26:09,039 --> 00:26:11,079
Speaker 6: He'd come in with stacks of cash late at night,

506
00:26:11,559 --> 00:26:14,559
which made a huge impression on his little brother, Joseph.

507
00:26:15,039 --> 00:26:17,079
Speaker 2: Little Joey was about thirteen years.

508
00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:20,319
Speaker 6: Old, and he was amazed that big bro was coming

509
00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:22,920
in with stacks of cash and all these stories about

510
00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:26,519
working in the clubs with these rappers and DJs that

511
00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:29,640
Joey was listening to on mixtapes that people were passing

512
00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:30,519
around at school.

513
00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:32,640
Speaker 2: So By nineteen seventy.

514
00:26:32,279 --> 00:26:35,920
Speaker 6: Eight, Curtis Blow needed a DJ and Russ knew exactly

515
00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:38,240
who to come to for the job because his little

516
00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:41,559
brother Joey, who was just thirteen, had been chomping into

517
00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:43,960
bed for months to be able to join him, and

518
00:26:44,039 --> 00:26:45,839
he was learning and practicing at home, but how to

519
00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:49,680
work the turntables, and so finally they tapped him to

520
00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:54,839
be the DJ for Curtis Blow. So with Run DMC.

521
00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:58,200
Whenever you hear him refer to as DJ Run, you

522
00:26:58,279 --> 00:26:59,000
might wonder what.

523
00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:01,160
Speaker 2: He's not the DJ. So was his name DJ Run?

524
00:27:01,599 --> 00:27:04,880
Speaker 6: It's because he started out as Curtis Blow's DJ in

525
00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:06,680
nineteen seventy eight as.

526
00:27:06,559 --> 00:27:07,480
Speaker 4: A thirteen year old.

527
00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:10,599
Speaker 6: As a thirteen year old, his first night on stage

528
00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:13,720
ever in his life. He's thirteen years old and he's

529
00:27:13,759 --> 00:27:17,519
on stage with Curtis Blow and Grand Master Flash.

530
00:27:17,519 --> 00:27:21,480
Speaker 3: That's incredible man, son of Curtis Blow, son of Curtis Blow.

531
00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:24,680
Speaker 5: I heard that he got the name Run because he

532
00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:25,519
was a fast worker.

533
00:27:25,599 --> 00:27:26,599
Speaker 4: Is that is that?

534
00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:29,160
Speaker 2: It was just like his big brother Rush.

535
00:27:29,839 --> 00:27:33,000
Speaker 6: Run had a high energy personality and work rate, and

536
00:27:33,039 --> 00:27:34,799
they say he was always running off at the mouth.

537
00:27:36,079 --> 00:27:38,279
Speaker 4: There you go, Yeah, she's about right.

538
00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:39,880
Speaker 2: So he was a DJ.

539
00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:42,920
Speaker 6: Run He was billed as the son of Curtis Blow,

540
00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:47,839
and they spent several years doing this act and Run

541
00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:50,200
would rap, he would take his turn on the microphone.

542
00:27:50,519 --> 00:27:52,240
And so he was still a kid who's in junior

543
00:27:52,359 --> 00:27:55,559
high and he was spending his weekends at the clubs performing.

544
00:27:55,759 --> 00:27:58,480
So here we are in nineteen seventy nine, and there

545
00:27:58,519 --> 00:28:01,680
was a writer by the name of Rocky Ford who

546
00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:03,240
had just written a piece.

547
00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:06,039
Speaker 4: For Billboard, Rocky Ford. That's the one where Rocky Gates

548
00:28:06,079 --> 00:28:06,880
on the Russian.

549
00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:08,880
Speaker 3: Killed Apollo.

550
00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:14,160
Speaker 5: I must break you, Rocky Ford.

551
00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:18,960
Speaker 6: Okay, Rocky Ford had just written a story for Billboard

552
00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:21,599
on this new breakbeat culture that had taken over, taken

553
00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:25,119
root in the Bronx. And he was taking the train

554
00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:28,759
through New York when a flyer for a Rush Promotions

555
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:30,160
party caught his eye.

556
00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:32,000
Speaker 2: It just caught his eye. He just noticed it when

557
00:28:32,039 --> 00:28:33,000
he got off the train.

558
00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:36,319
Speaker 6: He saw a little kid hustling around, running around putting

559
00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:37,799
up flyers for parties.

560
00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:40,839
Speaker 2: And it also had the Rush name on it, and

561
00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:42,200
so this inspired him.

562
00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:43,799
Speaker 6: He's always looking for his next story to write, so

563
00:28:43,839 --> 00:28:46,279
he decided he would write a story about who this

564
00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:48,519
promoter was because he appeared to be a big deal.

565
00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:51,039
First of all, the little kid he saw tacking up

566
00:28:51,279 --> 00:28:54,680
posters in a hurry, that was Joseph Simmons putting up

567
00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:56,400
flyers for his big brother. But he was able to

568
00:28:56,440 --> 00:28:58,559
track him down at his offices and met with him,

569
00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:02,359
and he was inspired to write story because Russia Entertainment

570
00:29:02,559 --> 00:29:05,160
appeared to be the biggest mover and shaker, you know,

571
00:29:05,359 --> 00:29:08,160
on on the scene. And so they met and there

572
00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:11,720
was an exchange of ideas. So Rocky got his interview

573
00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:15,519
with Russell. But in exchange, he taught Russell about the

574
00:29:15,599 --> 00:29:18,400
music business and how the music industry works and how

575
00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:21,000
the record business works, and so that became That was

576
00:29:21,039 --> 00:29:24,640
obviously a very important step in Russell's life. But Russell

577
00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:26,839
had a vision for his life and for his future.

578
00:29:27,119 --> 00:29:29,440
He believed in it and he had he was at

579
00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:31,519
a point where he had to prove it to his dad.

580
00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:34,279
He had to prove that I'm not making a mistake

581
00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:37,640
and this this is something legit and viable. And so

582
00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:41,000
he went all out promoting this one big party in Harlem.

583
00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:43,200
This was going to be the show that proved it

584
00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:47,039
all to his dad. And guess how many people showed up.

585
00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:48,440
Speaker 2: Nobody.

586
00:29:49,359 --> 00:29:55,359
Speaker 6: Nobody his worst failure as a promoter, literally zero people

587
00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:55,920
showed up.

588
00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:57,839
Speaker 4: Oh my gosh, that's terrible.

589
00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:01,200
Speaker 6: He had rented the venue, he had paid for the advertising,

590
00:30:01,319 --> 00:30:02,319
and nobody showed up.

591
00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:03,079
Speaker 2: It broke him.

592
00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:05,720
Speaker 6: Russell's career was dead. He didn't know what he was

593
00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:08,440
going to tell his dad, right because it was the

594
00:30:08,519 --> 00:30:10,200
end of the line. He had a great idea. It

595
00:30:10,319 --> 00:30:12,599
lasted a couple of years with Curtis Blow, but it

596
00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:14,720
was over. He didn't know what to tell his dad.

597
00:30:15,039 --> 00:30:17,640
So he called his mom, and his mom, who who

598
00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:21,000
had also had a good job high up in New

599
00:30:21,039 --> 00:30:24,400
York City parks and rec gave him two thousand dollars.

600
00:30:24,559 --> 00:30:27,440
And it's only because of that two thousand dollars that

601
00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:30,519
he was able to continue. And so with that money,

602
00:30:30,559 --> 00:30:32,400
he decided he was no longer going to go into

603
00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:36,319
party promotion and that instead he would move into artist management. Okay,

604
00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:38,720
And so with this decision made, he went back to

605
00:30:38,839 --> 00:30:42,119
Rocky Ford, the Billboard writer who had told him about

606
00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:43,960
the music business and told him what he.

607
00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:44,559
Speaker 2: Wanted to do.

608
00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:48,599
Speaker 6: And Rocky had already been talking with an ad executive

609
00:30:48,599 --> 00:30:52,200
Billboard Magazine named JB. Moore, and they had decided they

610
00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:54,960
were going to do something that had never been done before.

611
00:30:55,279 --> 00:30:57,640
Speaker 2: They were going to produce a wrap record.

612
00:30:57,759 --> 00:30:59,319
Speaker 6: And then and they looked at russ and they're like, well,

613
00:30:59,319 --> 00:31:02,640
maybe maybe Russe's our guy. Nobody in hip hop was

614
00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:05,240
thinking about making their own record. They were taking other

615
00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:07,640
people's records and playing them and dancing to them, and

616
00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:11,720
that's all it was. But Russell and Rocky and JB.

617
00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:14,960
Moore decided they were gonna make a record, and this

618
00:31:15,119 --> 00:31:17,200
is kind of cool. The rapper they had in mind

619
00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:18,279
for their record.

620
00:31:18,079 --> 00:31:19,119
Speaker 2: Was Eddie Chiba.

621
00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:23,720
Speaker 6: Well, Russell has Curtis Blow as his one and only client.

622
00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:27,000
Speaker 2: Well, Russell wants in on that, but they want Eddie Cheeba.

623
00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:29,960
Speaker 6: So Russell takes them to a show where both Eddie

624
00:31:30,039 --> 00:31:33,599
Chiba and Curtis Blow are performing on the bills and

625
00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:37,200
it's all on Curtis Blow's shoulders. It's like, this is

626
00:31:37,279 --> 00:31:41,839
on you, buddy, this is your chance put on the

627
00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:46,039
performance of your life. These guys want to make a record,

628
00:31:46,519 --> 00:31:50,359
You've got to blow Eddie Chiba off the stage, step up,

629
00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:51,319
make it happen.

630
00:31:51,359 --> 00:31:53,839
Speaker 2: So like some kind of movie moment with everything on

631
00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:54,960
the line.

632
00:31:54,759 --> 00:31:56,880
Speaker 6: Curtis Blow takes the stage that night, and you can

633
00:31:56,920 --> 00:31:59,880
hear the theme music playing in the background, and he

634
00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:03,000
blows Eddie Chiba out of the sky. And that is

635
00:32:03,039 --> 00:32:05,720
why today most people have probably heard of Curtis Blow,

636
00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:08,200
but most people have probably not heard of Eddie Chiba.

637
00:32:08,359 --> 00:32:10,839
They still haven't made their money, right, Russ is still broke.

638
00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:13,960
He's living on this He's squeezing by on this money

639
00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:17,359
that his mom gave him. But he's already pioneered organizing

640
00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:21,720
hip hop into organized shows. He's already pioneered a circuit

641
00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:25,880
of venues for performers. And he maybe he didn't realize

642
00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:28,440
it yet, but he had already pioneered the idea of

643
00:32:28,559 --> 00:32:32,839
managing a representing rappers, and now he was ready to

644
00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:37,759
pioneer the producing of actual rap records. Now, their idea,

645
00:32:38,119 --> 00:32:40,960
Rocky Ford and JB. Moore's idea was to do a

646
00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:44,559
novelty song. They decided they would do a song about

647
00:32:44,599 --> 00:32:47,160
Santa Claus and they wanted to make it a rap record.

648
00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:50,720
Now that's a million miles away from all this vital, energetic, creative,

649
00:32:50,839 --> 00:32:52,519
awesome stuff happening in the clubs.

650
00:32:52,759 --> 00:32:54,640
Speaker 2: But they're trying to find a way to present it

651
00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:55,279
to the public.

652
00:32:55,359 --> 00:32:58,839
Speaker 6: So it's this nice little novelty comedy record about Santa Claus.

653
00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:01,720
But then something went wrong on the way to the studio.

654
00:33:02,519 --> 00:33:05,039
Somebody beat into the punch hit.

655
00:33:07,799 --> 00:33:12,839
Speaker 4: You don't stop the record to the band man rhythm.

656
00:33:13,119 --> 00:33:16,599
Speaker 6: So Rapper's Delight was a massive hit for a group

657
00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:20,279
called the sugar Hill Gang. This record blew up, and

658
00:33:20,319 --> 00:33:23,680
it's considered the first rap record in history. It was massive.

659
00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:29,480
Everybody had this record. It sold fourteen million units this

660
00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:30,160
one song.

661
00:33:31,119 --> 00:33:32,200
Speaker 3: Wow yeah.

662
00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:33,119
Speaker 2: Here's the problem.

663
00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:35,359
Speaker 6: Guess how many people had heard of the sugar Hill

664
00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:36,640
Gang before that record came out?

665
00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:40,079
Speaker 2: See nobody, right, nobody. Guess how many gigs they had

666
00:33:40,079 --> 00:33:41,039
performed in the clubs?

667
00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:42,440
Speaker 4: Zero?

668
00:33:43,039 --> 00:33:45,839
Speaker 2: Zero? Had they even existed before?

669
00:33:46,119 --> 00:33:50,720
Speaker 6: No, They were purely a creation of the record label.

670
00:33:50,759 --> 00:33:54,680
They were a studio act. They were absolutely fake. They

671
00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:57,559
were not authentic. They didn't come from the scene. They

672
00:33:57,559 --> 00:34:00,000
didn't come from the clubs. As a matter of fact,

673
00:34:00,359 --> 00:34:04,279
they stole well known routines from other people and put

674
00:34:04,319 --> 00:34:05,319
it into their song.

675
00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:08,159
Speaker 3: They were a boy band. They were new kids on

676
00:34:08,199 --> 00:34:08,599
the block.

677
00:34:11,039 --> 00:34:12,039
Speaker 4: Wow wow.

678
00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:17,079
Speaker 6: So everybody in America right is loving this song.

679
00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:18,079
Speaker 2: It blew up.

680
00:34:18,199 --> 00:34:21,440
Speaker 6: But everybody in the Bronx, everybody around the New York

681
00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:23,440
area that knew what real hip hop was like.

682
00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:26,840
Speaker 2: They hated these guys. They hated them. They were posers,

683
00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:27,559
they were fake.

684
00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:32,280
Speaker 6: Russell hated them not because they were fake, He hated

685
00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:34,719
them because they beat him to the punch. And they

686
00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:39,119
got their record out first, so they pushed forward. Russell,

687
00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:42,360
Ford and more pushed forward with their plan, and in

688
00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:45,880
time for Christmas in nineteen seventy nine, they released Curtis

689
00:34:45,880 --> 00:34:54,760
Blow's Christmas Rapping Hey, the second ever rap record. Now

690
00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:58,840
that music was performed by a couple of session players

691
00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:03,239
named Larry Smith who was playing bass. Trevor Gale was

692
00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:05,599
a was the man on the drums, and the guitarist

693
00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:07,760
was a guy named Eddie Martinez.

694
00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:11,039
Speaker 3: Larry Smith is the name I recognize. Isn't Larry the

695
00:35:11,039 --> 00:35:14,000
one that produced the first two run DMC albums?

696
00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:17,920
Speaker 2: Yes? Okay, okay, So now they have their record.

697
00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:21,440
Speaker 6: Okay, they have Christmas Rapping, But how do they get

698
00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:21,800
it out?

699
00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:22,840
Speaker 2: They need a label.

700
00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:27,719
Speaker 6: So Russ pulls off this ingenious scam. First of all,

701
00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:30,679
he sends copies out to these key influential DJs around

702
00:35:30,679 --> 00:35:33,679
the city. Uh huh, then he writes up a bunch

703
00:35:33,719 --> 00:35:37,480
of fake orders for Christmas Rapping and sends it to PolyGram,

704
00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:40,559
Like he has a PolyGram Records order sheet to fill out,

705
00:35:40,599 --> 00:35:42,480
and he just fills it out, though he's fake names.

706
00:35:42,639 --> 00:35:45,480
Everybody requesting Christmas rapping from PolyGram.

707
00:35:45,559 --> 00:35:49,079
Speaker 2: They get all these and they don't. They're like, number one,

708
00:35:49,119 --> 00:35:51,840
we don't have it. Number two, what is it? We

709
00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:53,039
don't know what this record is.

710
00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:57,679
Speaker 6: But they they fell exactly into Russell's plans. It made

711
00:35:57,719 --> 00:36:00,519
them curious and they're like, well, clearly there's demand for

712
00:36:00,559 --> 00:36:03,039
this record. Look how many people want it? Brilliant and

713
00:36:03,199 --> 00:36:07,400
so they tracked down the producer and said, hey, we

714
00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:09,599
need to sign you want to we want to distribute

715
00:36:09,639 --> 00:36:12,440
this record, And that's how they got the record deal

716
00:36:12,480 --> 00:36:13,360
for Christmas Wrapping.

717
00:36:14,079 --> 00:36:17,119
Speaker 3: That is the fadeaway Swish if there was.

718
00:36:18,559 --> 00:36:22,000
Speaker 5: That's genius, man. This guy is a marketing genius.

719
00:36:22,599 --> 00:36:26,760
Speaker 6: He combined street hustle with college education and a visionary

720
00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:35,079
business sense and trick. He's tricky, and he tricked PolyGram

721
00:36:35,119 --> 00:36:39,119
Records into signing Curtis Blue. Now Curtis Blow becomes the

722
00:36:39,159 --> 00:36:42,519
first rapper in history signed to a major record label.

723
00:36:43,559 --> 00:36:44,960
Speaker 2: Quickly follow that up.

724
00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:49,000
Speaker 6: In January of nineteen eighty with his second song, The Breaks. Now,

725
00:36:49,039 --> 00:36:52,360
The Breaks is a record that anticipated what Grandmaster Flash

726
00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:54,360
would do a few years later with the Message, which

727
00:36:54,400 --> 00:36:56,960
is basically rapping about how hard life can be in

728
00:36:56,960 --> 00:36:59,159
the city. But with these two records that were both

729
00:36:59,239 --> 00:37:03,320
hit records, and so Curtis Blow at this point seventy

730
00:37:03,400 --> 00:37:06,360
nine eighty, he becomes rap's first official star.

731
00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:09,000
Speaker 2: Hey it's everybody if you've got.

732
00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:11,760
Speaker 6: And with these hit songs, he has to hit the road,

733
00:37:11,880 --> 00:37:14,880
and so he hits the road with DJ Run. What

734
00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:17,400
they learned here was that rapp was very economical, right.

735
00:37:17,440 --> 00:37:19,599
All you needed was a record player and a microphone.

736
00:37:19,719 --> 00:37:22,559
There's a very little overhead. These shows cost basically nothing

737
00:37:22,599 --> 00:37:24,239
to put on, so they were making a lot of money.

738
00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:25,800
Speaker 2: It was very profitable.

739
00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:29,320
Speaker 6: But with every show, Joseph Simmons he would take his

740
00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:32,199
turn on the microphone. So he was fourteen, fifteen years

741
00:37:32,199 --> 00:37:34,360
old and he was rapping every night in front of

742
00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:37,159
Curtis Blow's crowds. So it was during this time of

743
00:37:37,199 --> 00:37:42,039
Curtis Blow's success, early on his PolyGram's career, and he's

744
00:37:42,119 --> 00:37:45,239
on the road a lot with Joseph Simmons as his

745
00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:47,800
DJ Russ is growing his client list.

746
00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:49,119
Speaker 2: He's got more than just Curtis Blow.

747
00:37:49,199 --> 00:37:51,679
Speaker 6: Now he's signing up several acts, one of which is

748
00:37:51,719 --> 00:37:55,639
Doctor Jekyl and Mister Hyde. And in nineteen eighty one

749
00:37:55,719 --> 00:37:58,519
they had a song called Genius Rap. This proved to

750
00:37:58,519 --> 00:38:01,039
be their biggest hit, and Doctor Mister Hyde, even though

751
00:38:01,039 --> 00:38:03,800
they appear and crush groove the movie, they never really

752
00:38:03,880 --> 00:38:08,280
had a big rapping career, although Doctor Jekyl also known

753
00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:10,920
as Andre Harrel, would go on to be a huge

754
00:38:10,920 --> 00:38:13,719
record executive and eventually end up being the CEO of

755
00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:15,559
Motown in the nineties.

756
00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:18,199
Speaker 2: Okay, nice started.

757
00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:21,559
Speaker 6: Off nineteen eighty one with Genius Rap that they had

758
00:38:22,079 --> 00:38:25,880
landed with a small indie label that had just opened

759
00:38:25,920 --> 00:38:28,400
in eighty one but had lost all their money and

760
00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:29,199
nothing had to hit.

761
00:38:29,519 --> 00:38:31,960
Speaker 2: It was called Profile Records, and they took.

762
00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:33,559
Speaker 6: Genius Rap and they got a hit out of it,

763
00:38:33,679 --> 00:38:36,199
and Genius Rap saved Profile Records.

764
00:38:36,239 --> 00:38:38,719
Speaker 2: And that'll prove important in a few minutes.

765
00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:41,880
Speaker 3: So while all this stuff is going on, while you know,

766
00:38:42,559 --> 00:38:46,760
Run is being introduced as the son of Curtis Blow,

767
00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:51,119
kids around the Bronx are just I mean, each of

768
00:38:51,159 --> 00:38:54,599
those Burroughs is kind of a world in and of itself, right,

769
00:38:54,679 --> 00:38:58,519
and so they're they're getting they're getting these mixtapes in.

770
00:38:58,920 --> 00:39:02,320
But everybody's all in love with this new style of music.

771
00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:05,920
And there's this kid named Darryl who is a big

772
00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:11,079
comic book fan, Like he obsesses over comic book huge, yes,

773
00:39:11,519 --> 00:39:14,239
like that's all he does. He's he's an introvert. He's

774
00:39:14,280 --> 00:39:16,800
got big, thick glasses. He kind of gets picked on

775
00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:19,280
at school, and so all he wants to do is

776
00:39:19,360 --> 00:39:21,760
go home and read his comic books until he starts

777
00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:24,400
hearing this music. And he and his older brother really

778
00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:26,679
fall in love with this music. And they say, man,

779
00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:29,039
can we where can we get some money so that

780
00:39:29,079 --> 00:39:32,760
we can get our own turntables? And his brother's like,

781
00:39:33,079 --> 00:39:36,119
why don't we sell your comic books. He's like, but

782
00:39:36,280 --> 00:39:38,480
I like my comic books. And he's like, well, yeah,

783
00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:41,119
we'll sell the old ones that you've read already. He's like, okay,

784
00:39:41,400 --> 00:39:43,760
I'll keep the good ones. Well we'll sell my old

785
00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:47,360
comic books. And they sell it. They buy the turntable,

786
00:39:47,719 --> 00:39:50,159
and then big brother says, now don't you touch this

787
00:39:50,199 --> 00:39:58,079
when I'm not, so he tries to emulate the guys

788
00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:01,760
and you know, before he was trying to emulate the superheroes,

789
00:40:01,800 --> 00:40:04,320
he would have his you know, he'd have his playtime

790
00:40:04,360 --> 00:40:08,039
emulating the superheroes. Now he is trying to write poetry,

791
00:40:08,119 --> 00:40:11,559
trying to write raps so he can emulate those guys

792
00:40:11,639 --> 00:40:15,360
from the other boroughs who are now doing this music

793
00:40:15,400 --> 00:40:17,320
that is brand new and on the scene.

794
00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:20,800
Speaker 6: So Daryl and Joseph had been going to the same

795
00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:25,320
elementary school since kindergarten, but because Daryl's birthday was in May,

796
00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:27,960
he was actually one grade ahead of Joseph, so they

797
00:40:27,960 --> 00:40:30,119
were never in the same grade or same class in

798
00:40:30,199 --> 00:40:32,840
elementary school. So although they had gone to school there together,

799
00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:35,400
they weren't really friends. But at this point at high

800
00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:38,119
school age, as it happens with Ron on the road

801
00:40:38,119 --> 00:40:40,920
with Curtis blow a lot, they both end up joining

802
00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:43,440
a local basketball league. They ended up on the same

803
00:40:43,480 --> 00:40:46,639
team and they renew their acquaintance. They recognize each other

804
00:40:46,639 --> 00:40:50,280
from elementary school, and so this is where they really

805
00:40:50,320 --> 00:40:52,719
became friends, was playing basketball together.

806
00:40:52,920 --> 00:40:55,320
Speaker 2: So, yes, Daryl was an introvert.

807
00:40:55,360 --> 00:40:57,159
Speaker 6: He liked to stay at home, but he had discovered

808
00:40:57,159 --> 00:41:00,800
this music and he discovered that his friend Joe was

809
00:41:00,840 --> 00:41:04,079
a part of the scene was actually in Manhattan and

810
00:41:04,119 --> 00:41:06,559
in the Bronx playing to these clubs, and he's on

811
00:41:06,559 --> 00:41:08,239
some of these mixtapes that he's listening to me and

812
00:41:08,320 --> 00:41:09,079
it blew him away.

813
00:41:09,320 --> 00:41:12,400
Speaker 3: Both Darryl and Joe liked to play basketball, right, and

814
00:41:12,559 --> 00:41:16,639
in these burrows there's really just especially in the Bronx,

815
00:41:16,639 --> 00:41:19,199
there's one basketball goal that you can go and play on.

816
00:41:19,760 --> 00:41:22,119
And a friend of theirs decides, Hey, I'm going to

817
00:41:22,199 --> 00:41:25,320
slam dunk on this goal and he breaks the goal,

818
00:41:25,599 --> 00:41:27,760
and so now they're without a goal to play on,

819
00:41:28,000 --> 00:41:30,079
and Darryl and Joe are like, well, what are we

820
00:41:30,119 --> 00:41:33,199
going to do? And Darryl says, hey, why don't you

821
00:41:33,199 --> 00:41:35,800
come over to my house. I've got a basketball goal

822
00:41:35,840 --> 00:41:38,480
at my house. We'll play over there, right, And so

823
00:41:38,519 --> 00:41:42,840
they go over to Darryl's house and they play basketball,

824
00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:45,840
they work up a sweat. Joe's thirsty. He's like, hey, man,

825
00:41:45,880 --> 00:41:47,760
can we get a drink water? And Daryl's like, man,

826
00:41:47,800 --> 00:41:50,119
I'm not really supposed to have people in the house.

827
00:41:50,280 --> 00:41:54,400
No company, no company when the parents aren't here. He's like, man,

828
00:41:54,440 --> 00:41:57,119
I'm dying a thirst here. Like all right, come on,

829
00:41:57,199 --> 00:41:59,639
he can come in. And when he comes in, Joe

830
00:41:59,760 --> 00:42:02,880
sees the turntables that the comic book Money had bought

831
00:42:03,440 --> 00:42:06,159
and he's like, whoa, what have you got going here?

832
00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:08,199
And he's like, oh, you know, yeah, I'm my brother

833
00:42:08,239 --> 00:42:10,719
and I got these and I do this a little bit.

834
00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:12,760
So you just do the turntables, you just do the

835
00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:14,800
DJ and Darrel's like, oh, yeah, yeah, I do it.

836
00:42:15,119 --> 00:42:18,079
That's all I do. But sure enough, Joe finds his

837
00:42:18,159 --> 00:42:21,440
notebook and he starts reading through. He's like, did you

838
00:42:21,480 --> 00:42:25,599
write this? Did you write these rhymes? And Daryl's like yeah,

839
00:42:25,719 --> 00:42:29,480
and he's like, listen, listen, my brother when I graduate,

840
00:42:29,679 --> 00:42:32,559
is gonna let me record a record. When that happens,

841
00:42:32,760 --> 00:42:34,840
I want you to record with me. I want you

842
00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:37,119
to be the guy who records with me on that record.

843
00:42:37,679 --> 00:42:41,400
And Daryl's like, yeah, okay, whatever, your brother, Yeah whatever.

844
00:42:41,639 --> 00:42:45,199
It's only later that he finds out who Darryl's It's

845
00:42:45,239 --> 00:42:48,880
only later that he finds out who Joe's brother really is.

846
00:42:49,239 --> 00:42:52,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, So Darryl was a homebody.

847
00:42:52,239 --> 00:42:54,559
Speaker 6: He was an introvert, he was probably a nerd, and

848
00:42:54,599 --> 00:42:57,599
he was his parents were in particularly his mother were

849
00:42:57,639 --> 00:43:00,239
overly protective of them. So here he is being a

850
00:43:00,280 --> 00:43:04,000
Hollis Queen's and he's going to a private school for

851
00:43:04,079 --> 00:43:07,039
high school, so he's wearing a uniform and he's wearing

852
00:43:07,039 --> 00:43:10,960
these big, thick glasses, so he's prime target for bullies.

853
00:43:11,159 --> 00:43:13,320
And he's got to walk the city blocks to get

854
00:43:13,360 --> 00:43:17,239
to his house, and so he's used to hiding his glasses.

855
00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:19,079
Like when he's coming up on people on the street,

856
00:43:19,079 --> 00:43:20,920
he takes his glasses off, puts him in his pocket,

857
00:43:20,920 --> 00:43:22,639
and tries to get by them without any trouble. And

858
00:43:22,679 --> 00:43:25,280
when he's in the house, he's he's he's content to

859
00:43:25,360 --> 00:43:27,559
just stay there and read and look out the window.

860
00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:30,760
So after this happens and Joe's like, hey, you've got

861
00:43:30,760 --> 00:43:31,400
some good rhymes.

862
00:43:31,400 --> 00:43:32,800
Speaker 2: You need to come with us. You know, I'm going

863
00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:33,360
to these shows.

864
00:43:34,079 --> 00:43:36,559
Speaker 6: Joseph was always trying to get Daryl to come with them,

865
00:43:36,960 --> 00:43:41,960
and Daryl would wanted to go, but his his his

866
00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:44,360
his mom wouldn't let him leave Queens. So it's like

867
00:43:44,559 --> 00:43:46,639
he asked his mom please, but she still said no.

868
00:43:50,079 --> 00:43:52,280
So he was all upset in Paludy looking out of

869
00:43:52,280 --> 00:43:54,480
the window while his friend Joe's off in the Bronx

870
00:43:54,480 --> 00:43:57,400
somewhere rapping on stage, and he's sitting there just reading

871
00:43:57,400 --> 00:44:00,119
his comic books. So here's the thing about Daryl. He

872
00:44:00,199 --> 00:44:03,079
was really shot and he would never imagine himself rapping

873
00:44:03,159 --> 00:44:05,320
in public. And what would happen is they had set

874
00:44:05,400 --> 00:44:08,880
up their turntables in the attic, and so they called

875
00:44:09,159 --> 00:44:12,960
their attic space the lab, and Daryl and Joe would

876
00:44:12,960 --> 00:44:15,039
spend all their time every day in the lab just

877
00:44:15,119 --> 00:44:19,840
messing around, scratching on records, writing rhymes, rapping back and forth.

878
00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:21,800
Speaker 2: And they just did this every day for a long time.

879
00:44:21,800 --> 00:44:24,440
Speaker 6: And this is where they developed their rapid fire exchange,

880
00:44:24,599 --> 00:44:28,320
switching between lines, switching words within a line, that kind

881
00:44:28,320 --> 00:44:30,159
of thing. This is where they developed that real tight

882
00:44:31,000 --> 00:44:34,119
ability to perform together. And it was during this time

883
00:44:34,480 --> 00:44:37,440
that Daryl came up with his first name for himself,

884
00:44:37,480 --> 00:44:42,719
which was Grandmaster Get High, and then later he would

885
00:44:42,760 --> 00:44:46,280
soon change his name to Easy Deep. But what was amazing,

886
00:44:46,559 --> 00:44:48,960
what blew Joe out of the water and made him

887
00:44:48,960 --> 00:44:51,880
a big believer in Darryl, was that this meek, mild

888
00:44:51,920 --> 00:44:54,760
mannered Clark Kent, who didn't want to get picked on,

889
00:44:54,920 --> 00:44:56,920
would go up in the lab and come up with

890
00:44:56,960 --> 00:45:00,159
the most vicious, tough guy rhymes that could just blow

891
00:45:00,159 --> 00:45:03,119
anybody off the street. When he was rapping, he transformed

892
00:45:03,119 --> 00:45:07,480
into the Superman version of himself. But Joe couldn't get

893
00:45:07,559 --> 00:45:11,679
him to perform anywhere, so across the street or nearby

894
00:45:12,360 --> 00:45:14,960
you had too what they called it two fifths part

895
00:45:15,039 --> 00:45:16,800
It was on two hundred and fifth Street, and this

896
00:45:17,000 --> 00:45:20,400
was the park that was the scene for all the

897
00:45:20,519 --> 00:45:23,079
parties in the Hollis that were going on. So these

898
00:45:23,159 --> 00:45:25,239
DJ these kids that were figuring out how to be

899
00:45:25,280 --> 00:45:27,840
a DJ by listening to these mixtapes or maybe going

900
00:45:27,880 --> 00:45:30,480
to a club show in the Bronx, they'd come back

901
00:45:30,519 --> 00:45:32,599
and they'd try these things. They were hooking up their

902
00:45:32,599 --> 00:45:35,760
turntables in Two Fists Park and throwing their own parties,

903
00:45:35,920 --> 00:45:38,079
And so there was a competition among DJs to see

904
00:45:38,079 --> 00:45:40,480
who could draw the biggest crowd and who can keep

905
00:45:40,519 --> 00:45:44,239
the party going the best. And at this time the

906
00:45:44,280 --> 00:45:47,840
best DJ in Hollis playing at Two Fist Park was

907
00:45:47,880 --> 00:45:51,000
a guy named Jazzy Jace who was a member of

908
00:45:51,039 --> 00:45:54,159
the Two Fists Down Crew. And so every once in

909
00:45:54,199 --> 00:45:56,480
a while Joe could get Daryl out of his house

910
00:45:56,559 --> 00:45:59,039
and he wasn't allowed to leave Queen's but they'd go

911
00:45:59,119 --> 00:46:01,000
down to the park when the parties were going on.

912
00:46:01,079 --> 00:46:04,679
Especially when Jazzy Jase was on the turntables, and all

913
00:46:04,679 --> 00:46:06,639
these kids were just eager to get on the mic

914
00:46:06,639 --> 00:46:08,360
and wrap. They wanted to wrap, they wanted to wrap.

915
00:46:08,480 --> 00:46:10,760
Joe was bringing his own microphone. He's like, just just

916
00:46:10,760 --> 00:46:13,000
plug it in, just let me wrap. He would, he'd

917
00:46:13,039 --> 00:46:15,199
blow everybody away. But this is the scene that kind

918
00:46:15,199 --> 00:46:18,840
of created that competition among rappers. You were no longer

919
00:46:18,920 --> 00:46:21,440
just praising the DJ, but you were also trying to

920
00:46:21,440 --> 00:46:23,719
convince people how good you were and that you were

921
00:46:23,800 --> 00:46:25,719
and you were the best person on the microphone. And

922
00:46:25,760 --> 00:46:29,159
it was this scene where DJ Run really honed his skills.

923
00:46:29,280 --> 00:46:31,639
But there's his friend Darryl hanging in the back of

924
00:46:31,679 --> 00:46:34,960
the crowd, not saying a word. Now, Joe knows what

925
00:46:35,159 --> 00:46:37,559
Daryl's got inside him, but nobody else knows.

926
00:46:37,800 --> 00:46:41,079
Speaker 2: So Jazz Jas, whose real name is Jason Mizel, he

927
00:46:41,239 --> 00:46:43,679
was like the tough guy. He was a street guy, Okay.

928
00:46:43,760 --> 00:46:48,039
Speaker 6: Darryl and Joe were both stable, loving homes, comfortable middle

929
00:46:48,039 --> 00:46:53,159
class existence, good normal, safe lives, and they were considered

930
00:46:53,199 --> 00:46:55,960
by the guys in the park to be soft, right,

931
00:46:56,039 --> 00:46:59,320
and Jason was somebody who was hard. He was a

932
00:46:59,320 --> 00:47:01,280
tough guy. He was from the streets. He was the

933
00:47:01,360 --> 00:47:03,599
kind of guy that was friends with everybody. He was

934
00:47:03,639 --> 00:47:05,800
friends with the straight A students and the nerds, but

935
00:47:05,880 --> 00:47:08,880
he's also friends with the guys on the corner dealing drugs,

936
00:47:08,920 --> 00:47:10,559
the tough guys that you wanted to stay away from.

937
00:47:10,599 --> 00:47:11,840
Speaker 2: He got to be friends with them too.

938
00:47:11,880 --> 00:47:16,280
Speaker 6: So Jason had cred and so, and he knew Joe

939
00:47:16,280 --> 00:47:16,800
from school.

940
00:47:16,800 --> 00:47:18,440
Speaker 2: They were the same grade together at school.

941
00:47:18,480 --> 00:47:20,400
Speaker 6: So when Daryl and Joe would come over to the park,

942
00:47:20,880 --> 00:47:22,480
Jason was the guy looking out for him.

943
00:47:22,599 --> 00:47:25,039
Speaker 2: Nobody messed with Daryl and Joe because Jason said so.

944
00:47:25,639 --> 00:47:27,920
Speaker 6: And if jed he Jace doesn't want you messing with

945
00:47:27,960 --> 00:47:30,760
those guys, then you know they must be cool. During

946
00:47:30,760 --> 00:47:33,440
this time in the early eighties that Joseph is continuing

947
00:47:33,440 --> 00:47:35,440
to bug Russell to make a record. He wants to

948
00:47:35,480 --> 00:47:37,119
make a record, he wants to make a record, and

949
00:47:37,239 --> 00:47:39,960
Russell keeps putting them off. But in nineteen eighty two,

950
00:47:40,199 --> 00:47:44,000
Larry Smith and Trevor Gale and Eddie Martinez, the three

951
00:47:44,039 --> 00:47:46,920
guys who had helped perform the music the session players

952
00:47:46,920 --> 00:47:49,800
who had performed on Christmas rapping, they formed their own

953
00:47:49,840 --> 00:47:52,840
band called Orange Crush and that's crush spelled with a K,

954
00:47:53,000 --> 00:47:55,840
and they were signed by Rush Management and the biggest

955
00:47:55,880 --> 00:47:58,679
song they put out was called Action. It was sung

956
00:47:58,719 --> 00:48:04,239
by Alison Williams, who was also a Rush client. But

957
00:48:04,320 --> 00:48:06,639
what's significant about it is that it had a beat

958
00:48:06,880 --> 00:48:11,639
that Russ particularly really liked. So in eighty two, sugar

959
00:48:11,719 --> 00:48:13,559
Hill Records run at the top of the business was

960
00:48:13,599 --> 00:48:17,400
collapsing because they had signed a bunch of acts after

961
00:48:17,440 --> 00:48:20,800
the success of Rappers Delight, such as Grandmaster Flash and

962
00:48:20,840 --> 00:48:22,880
the Furious Five and Mellie Mail and all these kind

963
00:48:22,880 --> 00:48:26,119
of guys, and so during this time CBS Right Columbia

964
00:48:26,199 --> 00:48:29,199
Records approached sugar Hill for.

965
00:48:29,440 --> 00:48:32,760
Speaker 2: A like to be their partner for distribution.

966
00:48:32,880 --> 00:48:35,679
Speaker 6: There's a major label coming around wanting to sign them up,

967
00:48:36,280 --> 00:48:38,440
but then Columbia ended up backing.

968
00:48:38,119 --> 00:48:38,599
Speaker 2: Out of that.

969
00:48:38,679 --> 00:48:41,360
Speaker 6: They were kind of scared off by some shady business

970
00:48:41,360 --> 00:48:43,480
practices they were seeing and this would later be a

971
00:48:43,519 --> 00:48:46,000
factor in them wanting to sign Deaf Jam because they

972
00:48:46,000 --> 00:48:49,039
were still looking for a wrap label, but they didn't

973
00:48:49,039 --> 00:48:49,440
want to be in.

974
00:48:49,440 --> 00:48:51,239
Speaker 2: Business with sugar Hill, but they did.

975
00:48:51,280 --> 00:48:55,480
Speaker 6: Sugar Hill did sign a major distribution deal with MCA Records.

976
00:48:55,800 --> 00:48:59,039
The problem was that deal was brokered by a guy

977
00:48:59,519 --> 00:49:04,960
from the and very quickly that relationship with MCA Records

978
00:49:05,320 --> 00:49:07,400
started to fall apart and they were in legal trouble

979
00:49:07,679 --> 00:49:10,199
and they were find themselves in litigation in court. And

980
00:49:10,239 --> 00:49:13,199
this is why sugar Hill kind of fell off the map.

981
00:49:14,039 --> 00:49:17,559
It created a space in the market for somebody else

982
00:49:17,639 --> 00:49:20,639
to step up, and so this is the landscape er Inn.

983
00:49:21,440 --> 00:49:24,840
When Trevor Gale, the drummer for Orange Crush, comes to

984
00:49:24,920 --> 00:49:27,920
Russ and says, I've written a rap song. I want

985
00:49:28,000 --> 00:49:30,880
to make a record out of it. Well, Russ didn't

986
00:49:30,920 --> 00:49:34,559
care about. He didn't care about this guy's a little okay, great,

987
00:49:34,599 --> 00:49:37,760
you wrote some rhymes whatever. He's like, okay, sure, you

988
00:49:37,800 --> 00:49:41,719
know what. Joey has been bugging me to record a record,

989
00:49:42,159 --> 00:49:45,000
So I'm gonna go talk to Joey. He can wrap

990
00:49:45,039 --> 00:49:47,320
this for you. But Joey's like, cool, I want to

991
00:49:47,360 --> 00:49:50,199
do it. Let me bring my friend Daryl. Russell says, no,

992
00:49:51,239 --> 00:49:53,760
I don't like Daryl, so what are you talking about.

993
00:49:54,360 --> 00:49:57,280
Russ saw nothing in Daryl they gave him any confidence

994
00:49:57,559 --> 00:50:00,880
that he could be a recording star. Like he didn't

995
00:50:00,920 --> 00:50:03,000
like his style, he didn't like his voice, he didn't

996
00:50:03,039 --> 00:50:05,920
like his mannerism, his personality. It was too withdrawn. We're

997
00:50:05,960 --> 00:50:08,800
not using Darryl. You can get over it. So Joseph

998
00:50:08,800 --> 00:50:11,679
doesn't like that, but they record anyway. They do a

999
00:50:11,719 --> 00:50:14,880
demo of a song called street Kid, and it is

1000
00:50:14,920 --> 00:50:19,280
a solo DJ run song that they record, and they

1001
00:50:19,320 --> 00:50:22,000
proceed to then shop around to record labels to find

1002
00:50:22,000 --> 00:50:25,920
somebody who will take care of for him, and nobody

1003
00:50:26,039 --> 00:50:28,400
buys it, nobody wants it, so they're dead in the

1004
00:50:28,480 --> 00:50:32,920
water and Joseph is dejected and he feels like that's it.

1005
00:50:33,000 --> 00:50:36,760
Speaker 2: I had my shot. Now I'm not gonna be a rapper.

1006
00:50:36,800 --> 00:50:38,559
Speaker 6: I'm not gonna I'm not gonna be making record, so

1007
00:50:38,559 --> 00:50:39,760
I gotta find something else to do.

1008
00:50:39,920 --> 00:50:43,039
Speaker 3: Meanwhile, Daryl has enrolled at Saint John's University.

1009
00:50:44,360 --> 00:50:46,760
Speaker 6: So by this time it's the fall of nineteen eighty two.

1010
00:50:46,960 --> 00:50:48,840
They seemed like they had a good run. It was fun,

1011
00:50:48,880 --> 00:50:51,440
but you gotta get on with life, and so Daryl

1012
00:50:51,519 --> 00:50:54,360
and Joe and Jason all end up enrolling at different

1013
00:50:54,400 --> 00:50:57,239
colleges in the fall of eighty two. Darryl is at

1014
00:50:57,280 --> 00:51:01,480
Saint John's University studying to be a business major, and

1015
00:51:01,679 --> 00:51:07,039
Joe he is enrolled at LaGuardia Community College to study

1016
00:51:07,880 --> 00:51:09,159
mortuary science.

1017
00:51:10,039 --> 00:51:10,599
Speaker 2: Wow.

1018
00:51:12,360 --> 00:51:15,079
Speaker 6: Wow, I guess he decided that if he was going

1019
00:51:15,159 --> 00:51:22,599
to slay all suckers who perpetrate, so he's going to

1020
00:51:22,599 --> 00:51:27,280
class to be a mortician. Okay, bummed out about his

1021
00:51:27,360 --> 00:51:30,360
record falling flat. At this time, there's a hit song

1022
00:51:30,400 --> 00:51:33,840
by Grandmaster of Flash and the Furious Five called The Message.

1023
00:51:34,679 --> 00:51:36,840
Speaker 2: It's like a jungle Sometimes it makes me wonder how

1024
00:51:36,840 --> 00:51:37,559
I keep them going.

1025
00:51:38,760 --> 00:51:41,519
Speaker 6: So this song was a huge hit, and it painted

1026
00:51:41,559 --> 00:51:44,960
a bleak story of life in New York City, and

1027
00:51:45,119 --> 00:51:48,280
Run was inspired to do something similar. So he came

1028
00:51:48,360 --> 00:51:51,199
up with the idea of a song called It's Like That,

1029
00:51:55,840 --> 00:51:59,800
which just tells the story of how times can be tough.

1030
00:52:00,079 --> 00:52:02,559
And so he calls up his friend Darryl and says,

1031
00:52:02,719 --> 00:52:04,639
I want to I have this idea for a song

1032
00:52:04,719 --> 00:52:05,719
like kind of like the Message.

1033
00:52:05,719 --> 00:52:07,599
Speaker 2: It's going to be called It's Like That. Let's see

1034
00:52:07,599 --> 00:52:09,360
what we can do with this, Okay, And.

1035
00:52:09,280 --> 00:52:13,440
Speaker 6: So Darryl, daydreaming in English class at Saint John's University,

1036
00:52:14,079 --> 00:52:16,800
writes the lyrics to It's Like That. It shows it

1037
00:52:16,800 --> 00:52:19,840
to Joe, Joe loves it. They take it to Russ.

1038
00:52:20,119 --> 00:52:22,800
Russ looks at it and says, this is great. I

1039
00:52:22,840 --> 00:52:25,639
want to record this right away. Considering that they had

1040
00:52:25,679 --> 00:52:28,519
tried this solo song street Kid with Joe and it

1041
00:52:28,599 --> 00:52:33,119
had gone nowhere. He finally relents and says, okay, fine,

1042
00:52:33,679 --> 00:52:35,880
Darryl can be on the record with you. And so

1043
00:52:36,000 --> 00:52:39,480
they recruit Larry Smith from Orange Crush to be the

1044
00:52:39,480 --> 00:52:42,039
producer on the session, and they go into the studio

1045
00:52:42,719 --> 00:52:44,719
and Daryl and Joe record.

1046
00:52:45,000 --> 00:52:45,639
Speaker 2: It's like that.

1047
00:52:45,800 --> 00:52:48,119
Speaker 6: They record the song, and now they need to find

1048
00:52:48,519 --> 00:52:50,760
a record label that'll carry it, and they shop it

1049
00:52:50,800 --> 00:52:54,639
around again, no biers. They shop it around to majors,

1050
00:52:54,639 --> 00:52:57,199
nobody's interested. They can't find anybody that will buy it.

1051
00:52:58,280 --> 00:53:01,239
And Russell's desperate at this point. You know, He's trying

1052
00:53:01,280 --> 00:53:04,039
to place this record for his brother. He remembers that

1053
00:53:04,159 --> 00:53:07,880
Genius Wrap by Doctor Jekyl and mister Hyde had saved

1054
00:53:07,960 --> 00:53:09,119
Profile Records.

1055
00:53:09,599 --> 00:53:09,840
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1056
00:53:09,880 --> 00:53:13,880
Speaker 6: So he calls them up and this is a struggling, small, tiny,

1057
00:53:13,920 --> 00:53:16,440
little independent record label and said that he had this

1058
00:53:16,519 --> 00:53:18,280
record for him, and he said, I want this much

1059
00:53:18,320 --> 00:53:21,719
money for it, and Profile Records said no, we'll take

1060
00:53:21,760 --> 00:53:25,480
it for half that much money, and Russell, with no

1061
00:53:25,519 --> 00:53:28,559
other choices, said fine, we'll take the deal. And so

1062
00:53:28,760 --> 00:53:32,119
that cut rate deal, Profile Records released It's like that,

1063
00:53:32,320 --> 00:53:35,639
and so that original twelve inch immediately took off boom.

1064
00:53:35,719 --> 00:53:38,280
It ended up selling like twenty thousand copies of just

1065
00:53:38,320 --> 00:53:41,519
this twelve inch. Now they needed it very quickly. They

1066
00:53:41,559 --> 00:53:44,320
needed a B side for this single, so they had

1067
00:53:44,320 --> 00:53:46,800
to come up with something fast. So what they did

1068
00:53:47,079 --> 00:53:49,280
is they turned to the rhymes that they had had

1069
00:53:49,360 --> 00:53:51,599
for a long time. These were rhymes they had come

1070
00:53:51,679 --> 00:53:53,920
up with in the park and in the attic in

1071
00:53:53,960 --> 00:53:56,000
their lab that they had had for a while. They

1072
00:53:56,039 --> 00:53:58,440
just dug through their notebook, found some old words, and

1073
00:53:58,480 --> 00:54:01,679
then for the track went back to Larry Smith and

1074
00:54:01,760 --> 00:54:05,000
Russell said, hey, you know that beat from Action that

1075
00:54:05,079 --> 00:54:08,159
I like so much, I want to reuse that. Let's

1076
00:54:08,280 --> 00:54:10,920
use the groove that Orange Crush.

1077
00:54:10,679 --> 00:54:12,360
Speaker 2: Had on Action.

1078
00:54:12,599 --> 00:54:18,199
Speaker 6: And so Sucker MC's used the Orange Crush groove, and

1079
00:54:18,320 --> 00:54:21,639
so they subtitled the song Crush Groove Won because it's

1080
00:54:21,679 --> 00:54:24,440
the same beat that Orange Crush had used on Action,

1081
00:54:24,639 --> 00:54:25,039
which is.

1082
00:54:24,960 --> 00:54:27,360
Speaker 3: Where you get the name for the movie later.

1083
00:54:27,159 --> 00:54:28,400
Speaker 2: On, exactly.

1084
00:54:31,199 --> 00:54:36,559
Speaker 6: And so this song was called Sucker MC's and this

1085
00:54:36,679 --> 00:54:38,840
song where It's like that was the.

1086
00:54:38,800 --> 00:54:40,639
Speaker 2: A side and blew up and was a hit on

1087
00:54:40,679 --> 00:54:41,119
the radio.

1088
00:54:41,559 --> 00:54:43,679
Speaker 6: It was the B side that blew up on the

1089
00:54:43,719 --> 00:54:48,800
clubs of the club scene because this was something brand new,

1090
00:54:49,039 --> 00:54:51,480
This was something that nobody else was doing.

1091
00:54:51,800 --> 00:54:55,880
Speaker 2: It was nothing but beat, scratch and rhymes.

1092
00:54:56,000 --> 00:54:58,079
Speaker 6: These were those battle rhymes that Ron had to come

1093
00:54:58,159 --> 00:55:00,199
up with in the park in order to stay on

1094
00:55:00,239 --> 00:55:01,920
the mic and not let anybody else have it.

1095
00:55:02,239 --> 00:55:04,880
Speaker 2: And he put it all on this record at a time.

1096
00:55:04,679 --> 00:55:07,800
Speaker 6: When other people are putting in softer sounds and trying

1097
00:55:07,800 --> 00:55:10,360
to be more musical. They're just coming straight from the street,

1098
00:55:10,800 --> 00:55:14,559
just the beat, just the rhymes, and this record single

1099
00:55:14,639 --> 00:55:20,679
handedly took rap from this original breakbeat culture and introduced

1100
00:55:20,760 --> 00:55:24,239
the drum machine as the sound of choice and define

1101
00:55:24,320 --> 00:55:25,239
the sound.

1102
00:55:24,920 --> 00:55:26,840
Speaker 2: Of rap for the rest of the decade.

1103
00:55:27,199 --> 00:55:29,400
Speaker 6: So they put out It's like that with the B

1104
00:55:29,519 --> 00:55:31,599
side of Sucker MC's and it's huge.

1105
00:55:31,880 --> 00:55:34,400
Speaker 2: They now have a reason to go on the road

1106
00:55:34,440 --> 00:55:35,000
and perform.

1107
00:55:35,199 --> 00:55:38,800
Speaker 6: This song would end up cracking the top twenty of

1108
00:55:38,800 --> 00:55:41,599
the Black Singles Chart and peak at number fifteen. So

1109
00:55:41,679 --> 00:55:44,360
it was in April of nineteen eighty three that Joseph

1110
00:55:44,360 --> 00:55:46,800
Simmons had his moment where he's walking down the hallways

1111
00:55:46,800 --> 00:55:49,760
at LaGuardia Community College, I guess getting ready to go

1112
00:55:49,880 --> 00:55:53,960
work on a cadaver or something, and he hears it's

1113
00:55:54,079 --> 00:55:56,599
like that coming out of the radio that somebody else

1114
00:55:56,679 --> 00:55:58,719
has in the hallway there, and he has that moment

1115
00:55:58,760 --> 00:55:59,800
where he just goes nuts.

1116
00:55:59,880 --> 00:56:01,599
Speaker 2: That's my song, that's my song, that's my song.

1117
00:56:01,960 --> 00:56:02,599
Speaker 4: That's awesome.

1118
00:56:02,880 --> 00:56:06,000
Speaker 6: Over at Saint John's University, Daryl turned in his official

1119
00:56:06,159 --> 00:56:09,079
notice for leave of absence, and he proudly says that

1120
00:56:09,119 --> 00:56:12,400
he's been absent ever since. So here we are in

1121
00:56:12,440 --> 00:56:14,320
the spring of eighty three and it's time for run

1122
00:56:14,360 --> 00:56:16,400
DMC to perform for the first time.

1123
00:56:17,039 --> 00:56:18,679
Speaker 2: Now, imagine Daryl McDaniels.

1124
00:56:19,000 --> 00:56:23,039
Speaker 6: He's only performed in the attic when he's drunk, and

1125
00:56:23,119 --> 00:56:25,719
he's supposed to get out on stage in front of everybody.

1126
00:56:25,920 --> 00:56:27,159
Speaker 2: But here's the thing.

1127
00:56:27,840 --> 00:56:30,840
Speaker 6: Joe had been telling Jazzy Jase, Hey man, when my

1128
00:56:30,880 --> 00:56:32,800
brother's gonna make a record for me, when I do,

1129
00:56:32,920 --> 00:56:33,800
you're gonna be my DJ.

1130
00:56:33,920 --> 00:56:36,440
Speaker 2: You're gonna be my DJ. And Jason's like, yeah, whatever, whatever.

1131
00:56:36,639 --> 00:56:39,039
Speaker 6: Finally they have a record and they've got a gig

1132
00:56:39,280 --> 00:56:42,000
and he's like, hey, be ready, we're gonna come get

1133
00:56:42,039 --> 00:56:44,239
you and so. So Jason's had nothing to do with

1134
00:56:44,320 --> 00:56:46,920
creation of these songs, but he's gonna be the guy

1135
00:56:47,000 --> 00:56:49,079
that's on stage with them as the DJ. Just like

1136
00:56:49,320 --> 00:56:51,800
the BC Boys had to bring in DJ Double Lor,

1137
00:56:52,599 --> 00:56:54,440
they needed to bring in somebody to be their DJ.

1138
00:56:54,679 --> 00:56:56,199
Speaker 2: Jazzy Jase was gonna be their guy.

1139
00:56:56,440 --> 00:56:59,760
Speaker 3: He's not like super complex in what he does with

1140
00:56:59,800 --> 00:57:04,719
the turntables. He's not, you know, flamboyant or anything, but

1141
00:57:04,880 --> 00:57:09,320
he is like clockwork precision on what he does. He

1142
00:57:09,599 --> 00:57:13,280
is simple, but he does not make mistakes. He is

1143
00:57:13,360 --> 00:57:16,960
a metronome of timing and he's reliable.

1144
00:57:17,159 --> 00:57:18,039
Speaker 2: That's exactly right.

1145
00:57:18,079 --> 00:57:20,400
Speaker 6: I've seen them in concert three different times, and what

1146
00:57:20,599 --> 00:57:24,679
strikes me about Jason Mizel is that he is controlling

1147
00:57:24,719 --> 00:57:25,039
the show.

1148
00:57:25,199 --> 00:57:26,559
Speaker 2: It might not be obvious.

1149
00:57:26,159 --> 00:57:28,519
Speaker 6: From the crowd what he's doing, but he's running the

1150
00:57:28,559 --> 00:57:31,840
stage shows. He's controlling the flow of everything that's going

1151
00:57:31,880 --> 00:57:34,440
on in their act. And so this is the guy

1152
00:57:34,480 --> 00:57:37,320
they wanted for their very first gig. As it turns out,

1153
00:57:37,880 --> 00:57:40,880
they forgot to pick him up. They left from Manhattan

1154
00:57:40,920 --> 00:57:46,800
without him. Russ had found a second gig from earlier

1155
00:57:46,800 --> 00:57:48,800
in the same day, and they had to hurry up

1156
00:57:48,840 --> 00:57:52,480
and get over there, and they left Jason behind, and

1157
00:57:52,559 --> 00:57:55,239
so Run and Deep go for their first day ever

1158
00:57:55,320 --> 00:57:56,280
of gigs and they've.

1159
00:57:56,079 --> 00:57:57,039
Speaker 2: Got two in one day.

1160
00:57:57,679 --> 00:58:01,239
Speaker 6: And Jason's back at the park and Queen like that

1161
00:58:01,440 --> 00:58:02,280
was my shot.

1162
00:58:02,639 --> 00:58:04,760
Speaker 2: You know, he's in tears. He's like, I can't believe

1163
00:58:04,800 --> 00:58:05,400
I messed up.

1164
00:58:05,960 --> 00:58:08,800
Speaker 6: He's probably glad that he did not go, because those

1165
00:58:08,880 --> 00:58:12,840
gigs were a complete disaster. The first gig proved to

1166
00:58:12,840 --> 00:58:15,880
be an office party with a bunch of stiff suits.

1167
00:58:16,719 --> 00:58:19,679
I have absolutely no idea what rap was. It was

1168
00:58:19,719 --> 00:58:21,760
like under fluorescent lights, you know, in the middle of

1169
00:58:21,800 --> 00:58:26,280
the afternoon, right, And to make matters worse, Daryl and

1170
00:58:26,360 --> 00:58:28,960
Joe had to share a single microphone.

1171
00:58:31,000 --> 00:58:32,039
Speaker 2: When you think about.

1172
00:58:31,800 --> 00:58:33,679
Speaker 6: What they do where they're switching lines back and forth

1173
00:58:33,719 --> 00:58:35,960
real quickly, they had to like huddle like cheek the cheek,

1174
00:58:36,000 --> 00:58:38,800
real close to each other, awkwardly around this one mic

1175
00:58:38,840 --> 00:58:40,320
to a bunch of people that had no idea what

1176
00:58:40,320 --> 00:58:43,360
they were doing. And it was it fell completely flat.

1177
00:58:43,440 --> 00:58:47,599
It was it was dumb, and it was terrible. That night,

1178
00:58:47,960 --> 00:58:51,360
they went to the legendary disco Fever, one of the

1179
00:58:51,400 --> 00:58:55,440
top clubs for this whole scene, to perform it's like

1180
00:58:55,559 --> 00:58:58,159
that and Sucker MC's the only two songs they have

1181
00:58:58,280 --> 00:59:00,320
and they've been on the radio and they it out

1182
00:59:00,360 --> 00:59:02,840
there and they don't have their look figured out yet.

1183
00:59:03,039 --> 00:59:06,920
They're wearing their daddy's suits, suit.

1184
00:59:06,760 --> 00:59:12,280
Speaker 3: Jackets, plaid like imagine Bob Bucker and his plaid sports jacket.

1185
00:59:12,280 --> 00:59:14,280
That's what these guys were wearing at their first show.

1186
00:59:14,320 --> 00:59:17,519
They were not cool men in black. They were out

1187
00:59:17,559 --> 00:59:18,840
of this world crazy.

1188
00:59:19,079 --> 00:59:21,960
Speaker 6: So the club and this is a hardcore you know,

1189
00:59:22,000 --> 00:59:25,079
this is a club in the Bronx and they're laughing

1190
00:59:25,119 --> 00:59:28,280
at them and they find out they're from Queens. Oh

1191
00:59:28,400 --> 00:59:30,760
forget it, get these Queens people out of here.

1192
00:59:31,079 --> 00:59:33,039
Speaker 2: And they're laughing at these guys. Well, what is this like?

1193
00:59:33,320 --> 00:59:35,519
Where your daddy's clothes day? It was his career day.

1194
00:59:35,519 --> 00:59:37,920
What are you doing? So it was humiliating.

1195
00:59:38,000 --> 00:59:42,199
Speaker 6: It was a complete disaster, and Darryl in particular just

1196
00:59:42,199 --> 00:59:44,800
wanted to crawl under a rock. He was like, I quit,

1197
00:59:44,880 --> 00:59:48,639
I'm done, I can't do this, you know, there's no way. Well,

1198
00:59:48,719 --> 00:59:51,159
luckily for all of us, they were able to talk

1199
00:59:51,239 --> 00:59:52,199
him into persisting.

1200
00:59:52,519 --> 00:59:55,920
Speaker 2: But that first day of gigs was a complete disaster.

1201
00:59:56,320 --> 00:59:56,840
Speaker 4: Wow.

1202
00:59:57,320 --> 00:59:58,239
Speaker 2: But they did go.

1203
00:59:58,239 --> 01:00:01,400
Speaker 6: On the road, and they again hustling every day planned

1204
01:00:01,400 --> 01:00:04,159
they began driving outside of New York City and they

1205
01:00:04,159 --> 01:00:06,559
were they were lining up more and more gigs, and

1206
01:00:06,599 --> 01:00:09,440
they had Jason with them. And it was at these shows,

1207
01:00:09,800 --> 01:00:14,159
in a moment of an improvised rhyme, that d renamed

1208
01:00:14,199 --> 01:00:17,440
him instead of Jazzy Jase, he was known as jam

1209
01:00:17,519 --> 01:00:22,880
Master J jam Master J. And by this time, Daryl McDaniels,

1210
01:00:22,880 --> 01:00:25,000
who had been going by Easy D, had come up

1211
01:00:25,000 --> 01:00:27,719
with the name DMC. By playing with his last name

1212
01:00:28,239 --> 01:00:31,679
of Daryl Mack Daryl McDaniels, he came up with DMC.

1213
01:00:32,280 --> 01:00:36,800
He decided that it would stand for Devastating Mike Controller YEP,

1214
01:00:36,480 --> 01:00:42,199
and Russell agreed to it because his favorite car was

1215
01:00:42,239 --> 01:00:44,360
from the DeLorean Motor Company.

1216
01:00:44,480 --> 01:00:46,400
Speaker 4: Yes, are you telling me.

1217
01:00:46,440 --> 01:00:50,679
Speaker 2: You built a time machine kind of a delaureate.

1218
01:00:51,840 --> 01:00:55,159
Speaker 6: It was during the It's Like That recording sessions that

1219
01:00:55,440 --> 01:00:58,840
Russell informed them that their name was going to be

1220
01:00:59,039 --> 01:00:59,679
run DMC.

1221
01:01:00,440 --> 01:01:02,000
Speaker 2: Okay, that's your name.

1222
01:01:02,119 --> 01:01:04,440
Speaker 5: Okay, So I've got a story about how they got

1223
01:01:04,440 --> 01:01:06,679
their name. So you talked about how he was playing

1224
01:01:06,719 --> 01:01:09,960
with the letters from their last name, and of course

1225
01:01:10,079 --> 01:01:12,920
run gets his name from way back from DJ Run

1226
01:01:13,199 --> 01:01:15,920
and so Russell says, you guys are going to be

1227
01:01:15,920 --> 01:01:18,440
called Run DMC and they're like, no.

1228
01:01:18,599 --> 01:01:22,519
Speaker 4: That's terrible, No, we're ruined. This is horrible.

1229
01:01:22,599 --> 01:01:25,760
Speaker 5: They wanted to be called like the the Treacherous Tussome

1230
01:01:26,039 --> 01:01:30,000
or the Dynamic Duo or the Gruesome Tussom. They had

1231
01:01:30,039 --> 01:01:32,960
all this uh you know the people that.

1232
01:01:32,920 --> 01:01:35,519
Speaker 2: They looked at for Yeah, numbers in their names.

1233
01:01:35,639 --> 01:01:36,760
Speaker 4: Yeah, well you had.

1234
01:01:36,920 --> 01:01:37,320
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1235
01:01:37,840 --> 01:01:41,360
Speaker 5: All the guys before them had these long, elaborate, cool names.

1236
01:01:41,639 --> 01:01:45,719
Speaker 2: The Furious five four, the Treacher's three Cold Crush Brothers.

1237
01:01:46,159 --> 01:01:49,239
Speaker 4: Yes, and Russell's like, nope, you guys are run DMC.

1238
01:01:49,639 --> 01:01:49,840
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1239
01:01:49,920 --> 01:01:53,280
Speaker 6: They hated it because it broke from the naming conventions

1240
01:01:53,280 --> 01:01:55,119
of the time. They thought it sounded stupid, like what

1241
01:01:55,280 --> 01:01:57,760
is that. It served them well, though, because they had

1242
01:01:57,800 --> 01:01:59,880
such a new sound and a new look that that

1243
01:02:00,119 --> 01:02:04,199
new type of name just only further served to really

1244
01:02:04,280 --> 01:02:06,599
establish them as something new.

1245
01:02:06,800 --> 01:02:07,920
Speaker 4: That's a really cool name.

1246
01:02:07,960 --> 01:02:10,400
Speaker 5: And in fact, just to go along with that, their

1247
01:02:10,480 --> 01:02:14,360
logo is phenomenal. You showed me a shirt this week

1248
01:02:14,400 --> 01:02:17,280
where you were out shopping and found that shirt and

1249
01:02:17,400 --> 01:02:20,880
like hipsters wear it. Now they have it as onesies

1250
01:02:20,920 --> 01:02:23,719
and stuff, like that and it's really cool, and he

1251
01:02:23,760 --> 01:02:28,000
actually said I heard Daryl McDaniel say that somebody told

1252
01:02:28,079 --> 01:02:31,159
him that the three most effective logos out.

1253
01:02:30,960 --> 01:02:35,280
Speaker 4: There were Coca Cola, McDonald's, and run DMC.

1254
01:02:36,119 --> 01:02:36,639
Speaker 2: I believe it.

1255
01:02:38,880 --> 01:02:42,239
Speaker 6: By the fall of eighty three, Run DMC had found

1256
01:02:42,280 --> 01:02:46,199
themselves as the opening act for a variety of headliners,

1257
01:02:46,239 --> 01:02:49,639
including Cameo, Midnight Star, and The Gap.

1258
01:02:49,480 --> 01:02:55,039
Speaker 5: Band Okay Wait Wait Wait, wait wait wait Cameo, famous

1259
01:02:55,519 --> 01:03:00,239
for the song word Up. Yes, the Gap Band and

1260
01:03:00,320 --> 01:03:04,480
I know it's from Oklahoma City and their song is.

1261
01:03:04,800 --> 01:03:08,000
Speaker 4: You Dropped a Bomb on Me? Yes, okay? And what

1262
01:03:08,119 --> 01:03:08,679
was the other one?

1263
01:03:09,159 --> 01:03:09,880
Speaker 2: Midnight Star?

1264
01:03:10,880 --> 01:03:12,599
Speaker 4: Midnight Star, I got nothing.

1265
01:03:13,039 --> 01:03:16,639
Speaker 6: No parking on the dance floor, Oh okay, okay, and

1266
01:03:16,719 --> 01:03:20,000
uh freakazoid.

1267
01:03:18,440 --> 01:03:22,880
Speaker 5: There it is there it is okay, yeah, okay, cool okay.

1268
01:03:23,599 --> 01:03:26,480
Speaker 6: Also, and this is weird enough, Run DMC only had

1269
01:03:26,519 --> 01:03:28,519
one single out of this time. As far as anybody

1270
01:03:28,679 --> 01:03:30,320
knew they were, they could have just been a one

1271
01:03:30,400 --> 01:03:33,360
hit wonder right here. In the fall of eighty three,

1272
01:03:33,599 --> 01:03:37,679
there was actually an episode of The Jeffersons that featured

1273
01:03:38,159 --> 01:03:41,360
run DMC's one and only song, It's Like That, and

1274
01:03:41,440 --> 01:03:45,400
it was performed on that episode by all people, by

1275
01:03:45,760 --> 01:03:46,719
Sister Sledge.

1276
01:03:47,360 --> 01:03:49,840
Speaker 4: Wow, so wonderful.

1277
01:03:49,840 --> 01:03:52,480
Speaker 3: I am confident. I think I probably watched every episode

1278
01:03:52,519 --> 01:03:55,679
of the Jeffersons. I think I probably saw that. That's interesting.

1279
01:03:55,880 --> 01:03:58,760
I was break dancing at the time, so I probably

1280
01:03:58,840 --> 01:04:01,880
I bet I was wise enough to go, why is

1281
01:04:01,920 --> 01:04:04,599
this girl group singing my rap song right now?

1282
01:04:05,159 --> 01:04:05,679
Speaker 4: Yeah?

1283
01:04:05,719 --> 01:04:07,079
Speaker 3: But they didn't do after that job.

1284
01:04:07,320 --> 01:04:09,639
Speaker 6: So as eighty three is rolling into eighty four, Run

1285
01:04:09,719 --> 01:04:12,400
DMC is staying on the road playing shows, and Russell

1286
01:04:12,440 --> 01:04:16,119
and Larry Smith go back into the studio to work

1287
01:04:16,159 --> 01:04:18,199
on more material. The first thing they do is come

1288
01:04:18,199 --> 01:04:21,159
out with another two sided single that follows the same

1289
01:04:21,199 --> 01:04:23,920
pattern as it's like that in Sucker eam C's which

1290
01:04:23,960 --> 01:04:27,440
is a song called hard Times, which again follows that

1291
01:04:27,639 --> 01:04:30,119
the message template of talking about how tough things can

1292
01:04:30,159 --> 01:04:31,039
be right.

1293
01:04:31,320 --> 01:04:33,239
Speaker 2: And on the b side was a song called jam

1294
01:04:33,280 --> 01:04:34,199
Master Jam.

1295
01:04:34,280 --> 01:04:36,960
Speaker 5: That's the jay Ron D I heard about this, So

1296
01:04:37,039 --> 01:04:39,920
Darryl McDaniels talks about this too. He said they had

1297
01:04:39,960 --> 01:04:42,960
to write a song called jam Master J. They had

1298
01:04:43,000 --> 01:04:45,760
to have some way of introducing him as part of

1299
01:04:45,800 --> 01:04:46,199
the band.

1300
01:04:46,760 --> 01:04:48,400
Speaker 4: Okay, it's a three part band.

1301
01:04:48,639 --> 01:04:51,920
Speaker 5: You have Ron, you have DMC, and everybody in the

1302
01:04:51,920 --> 01:04:53,760
crowd is going, Okay, I get it.

1303
01:04:53,800 --> 01:04:56,719
Speaker 4: He's Ron, He's DMC. Who in the hell is that?

1304
01:04:58,159 --> 01:04:59,800
Speaker 5: And so they had to use that song as a

1305
01:04:59,800 --> 01:05:02,079
way to introduce him and sort of unite him as

1306
01:05:02,159 --> 01:05:03,400
that third member of the band.

1307
01:05:03,480 --> 01:05:06,280
Speaker 2: Not only did they do that with the song, but

1308
01:05:06,639 --> 01:05:07,760
they would go on.

1309
01:05:07,800 --> 01:05:10,920
Speaker 6: To sample this song throughout the rest of their careers

1310
01:05:11,480 --> 01:05:13,480
because this is the part where he goes run DMC

1311
01:05:13,599 --> 01:05:17,440
and jam Master J and he's cutting on RUNT and

1312
01:05:17,519 --> 01:05:20,880
all his future records, and in their live shows, jam

1313
01:05:20,920 --> 01:05:22,960
Master J is the first one on stage and he's

1314
01:05:23,199 --> 01:05:24,199
he's cutting on these.

1315
01:05:24,119 --> 01:05:25,760
Speaker 2: Names that are mentioned on this song.

1316
01:05:26,079 --> 01:05:28,920
Speaker 6: It's jam Master J record on the turntable that he's

1317
01:05:29,039 --> 01:05:31,440
using to bring the act out on stage and the

1318
01:05:31,519 --> 01:05:32,239
hype the crowd.

1319
01:05:32,880 --> 01:05:35,519
Speaker 2: So that song is significant for that reason.

1320
01:05:36,039 --> 01:05:37,960
Speaker 6: As a matter of fact, there's a lyric in that

1321
01:05:38,079 --> 01:05:41,239
song that goes, we're five, not four.

1322
01:05:41,159 --> 01:05:44,320
Speaker 2: Not three, just two two. MC's with the claim to fame.

1323
01:05:44,440 --> 01:05:47,559
Speaker 6: Okay, When Darryl says we're not five, we're not four

1324
01:05:47,639 --> 01:05:50,000
or not three, just two, he's calling.

1325
01:05:49,719 --> 01:05:50,639
Speaker 2: Out his competition.

1326
01:05:51,000 --> 01:05:54,719
Speaker 6: He is specifically referencing the Furious five, the Funky four,

1327
01:05:55,280 --> 01:05:58,000
the Treacherous three, and so this is another example of

1328
01:05:58,079 --> 01:06:01,920
just these battle rhymes as confrontational aggressive nature that Run

1329
01:06:02,000 --> 01:06:04,840
DMC was bringing to the records. The A side record,

1330
01:06:04,840 --> 01:06:07,800
hard Times was actually a Curtis Blow song. He had

1331
01:06:07,840 --> 01:06:11,320
recorded a version earlier. So this came out and it

1332
01:06:11,400 --> 01:06:15,920
also did well, but it began to create a split

1333
01:06:16,000 --> 01:06:17,440
between Russell and Larry.

1334
01:06:17,559 --> 01:06:20,119
Speaker 2: So Russell was all about beat.

1335
01:06:19,880 --> 01:06:21,800
Speaker 6: Only, just give me the beat, nothing but the beat,

1336
01:06:22,320 --> 01:06:24,559
and Larry Smith, who had a long career as a

1337
01:06:24,559 --> 01:06:27,480
session player, he was trying to bring more musicality to

1338
01:06:27,599 --> 01:06:32,199
these records, and whenever he would introduce musical or melodic elements,

1339
01:06:32,559 --> 01:06:34,599
Russell would get mad and say, you're just trying to

1340
01:06:34,599 --> 01:06:36,920
soften the sound. I don't want to soften. So then

1341
01:06:37,000 --> 01:06:39,159
one day they're in the studio. Now you have to understand,

1342
01:06:39,239 --> 01:06:42,199
Larry is somebody that been playing bands for years, including

1343
01:06:42,440 --> 01:06:46,519
rock music, and they take run In Daryl to the

1344
01:06:46,559 --> 01:06:49,480
studio to record a song that they've got ready, but

1345
01:06:49,559 --> 01:06:51,519
they have to wait for the recording booths to come

1346
01:06:51,599 --> 01:06:55,480
open because inside is the hard rock group called Riot

1347
01:06:55,639 --> 01:06:59,079
and Ryot is busy recording a song and they're banging

1348
01:06:59,159 --> 01:07:01,840
away and wailing a way on their guitars, and the

1349
01:07:01,880 --> 01:07:04,079
guys sitting out in the lobby can't help, but hear

1350
01:07:04,079 --> 01:07:06,800
it right, and Larry's grooven to it, and Russ is like,

1351
01:07:06,840 --> 01:07:09,719
you know what, we can be loud to run, And

1352
01:07:09,800 --> 01:07:13,039
so after Daryl and Joe recorded their parts that day,

1353
01:07:13,239 --> 01:07:15,440
Russ said, why don't we try to add some guitar.

1354
01:07:15,519 --> 01:07:17,119
Speaker 2: The way Riot was doing this.

1355
01:07:17,039 --> 01:07:20,119
Speaker 6: Was after the Run Indeed recorded their raps, and so

1356
01:07:20,239 --> 01:07:23,440
Larry calls up his friend Eddie Martinez, who had played

1357
01:07:23,480 --> 01:07:26,239
guitar on Christmas wrapping and had been an orange crush

1358
01:07:26,280 --> 01:07:27,519
with him. They said, can you come over here and

1359
01:07:27,599 --> 01:07:30,039
lay down some guitar tracks for us? So Eddie Martinez

1360
01:07:30,079 --> 01:07:33,960
did that, and this became the first.

1361
01:07:33,719 --> 01:07:38,440
Speaker 2: Rock rap fusion known as rock box Boy.

1362
01:07:38,599 --> 01:07:40,480
Speaker 4: Something is drinking, Run.

1363
01:07:41,920 --> 01:07:45,679
Speaker 6: Wow, Lawn Troll, the kind of guy back, Darling, I'm

1364
01:07:45,760 --> 01:07:48,119
drop the guy you fixed the fawn my name, we

1365
01:07:48,199 --> 01:07:50,119
talked the simith on my middle names one and when

1366
01:07:50,119 --> 01:07:50,800
I'm rocking it all.

1367
01:07:50,800 --> 01:07:54,840
Speaker 4: Then we got a funny billy and.

1368
01:07:57,360 --> 01:07:59,719
Speaker 5: I mean everybody's credits walked this way as being the

1369
01:07:59,760 --> 01:08:01,320
first rock rap combination.

1370
01:08:02,000 --> 01:08:02,960
Speaker 4: It's not. It's right here.

1371
01:08:03,000 --> 01:08:06,039
Speaker 3: This is rock box Yeah and it's this is the

1372
01:08:06,079 --> 01:08:08,880
first one that's on MTV. This is the first rap

1373
01:08:09,519 --> 01:08:10,840
song on MTV.

1374
01:08:11,199 --> 01:08:14,760
Speaker 6: That's right, so it Run DMC were the group that

1375
01:08:14,880 --> 01:08:19,399
pioneered introducing rock and roll sounds to rap, but it

1376
01:08:19,439 --> 01:08:21,880
was not well this way, it was rock Box.

1377
01:08:22,239 --> 01:08:22,520
Speaker 2: Now.

1378
01:08:22,840 --> 01:08:25,439
Speaker 6: Eddie Martinez is a name that you've mentioned before on

1379
01:08:25,479 --> 01:08:28,079
your show because he would.

1380
01:08:28,199 --> 01:08:29,600
Speaker 2: He was a career session player.

1381
01:08:29,600 --> 01:08:31,880
Speaker 6: He played for a lot of big guys like David

1382
01:08:31,960 --> 01:08:34,560
Lee Roth and Mick Jagger and all these people. But

1383
01:08:34,640 --> 01:08:37,960
he's perhaps most famously known for playing the guitar part

1384
01:08:38,279 --> 01:08:40,600
in Robert Palmer's Addicted to Love.

1385
01:08:41,720 --> 01:08:48,880
Speaker 3: Wow Wow, You that mentioned that I love Addicted to Love.

1386
01:08:48,960 --> 01:08:49,359
Speaker 2: Yeah?

1387
01:08:49,439 --> 01:08:52,439
Speaker 6: Yeah, So the guitar player on Addicted to Love is

1388
01:08:52,479 --> 01:08:55,680
the same guy wailing away on run DMC's rock Box.

1389
01:08:56,039 --> 01:08:56,920
Speaker 3: That is awesome.

1390
01:08:57,000 --> 01:08:58,479
Speaker 4: That was a great nugget, right there, man.

1391
01:08:58,600 --> 01:08:58,920
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1392
01:08:58,960 --> 01:09:01,399
Speaker 3: Another great nugget is one of the three of us

1393
01:09:01,479 --> 01:09:05,159
is actually dressed up as Robert Palmer on Halloween with

1394
01:09:05,199 --> 01:09:09,319
his wife, one of the dancing guitarists.

1395
01:09:09,359 --> 01:09:12,520
Speaker 5: My wife and I dressed up as the Addicted to

1396
01:09:12,560 --> 01:09:15,279
Love video. So I had a black tie and a

1397
01:09:15,319 --> 01:09:18,439
white suit or white shirt, and she had her hair

1398
01:09:18,439 --> 01:09:21,000
slipped back and all the makeup on it was awesome.

1399
01:09:21,119 --> 01:09:21,319
Speaker 2: Yep.

1400
01:09:22,000 --> 01:09:24,279
Speaker 6: And this was coming at a time when like the

1401
01:09:24,359 --> 01:09:27,039
Furious Five and Mellie mel and Zulu Nation, they were

1402
01:09:27,079 --> 01:09:30,119
all wearing these elaborate costumes, almost like the Village People, right,

1403
01:09:30,279 --> 01:09:33,000
a lot of studded leather and headdresses and just kind

1404
01:09:33,039 --> 01:09:37,840
of just crazy disco flamboyant costumes. And run DMC are

1405
01:09:37,840 --> 01:09:40,439
just wearing their street clothes. Right, They're in leather suits,

1406
01:09:40,439 --> 01:09:43,760
so they're in Adidas track suits, and they've got they've

1407
01:09:43,760 --> 01:09:47,119
got their their stetson hats whatever you call those fedoras.

1408
01:09:47,680 --> 01:09:52,159
This came straight from Jason Mizell's personal fashion sense. This

1409
01:09:52,239 --> 01:09:54,640
is how he dressed, and they just kind of adopted

1410
01:09:54,640 --> 01:09:56,640
that look and they said, look, we're just gonna be real.

1411
01:09:56,760 --> 01:09:58,359
Speaker 2: This is coming from Russell, just be real.

1412
01:09:58,479 --> 01:10:01,439
Speaker 6: And so this new look and this new sound, this

1413
01:10:01,520 --> 01:10:06,119
new aggressive sound, this firmly established the new school of

1414
01:10:06,600 --> 01:10:09,239
hip hop. This was hip hop three point zero with

1415
01:10:09,399 --> 01:10:09,920
run DMC.

1416
01:10:10,039 --> 01:10:10,520
Speaker 2: And with this.

1417
01:10:10,600 --> 01:10:14,000
Speaker 6: Album, we now moved into a different era. We kind

1418
01:10:14,000 --> 01:10:16,439
of leave the seventies and the early eighties behind. We're

1419
01:10:16,479 --> 01:10:18,600
moving into the mid eighties where run DMC is going

1420
01:10:18,680 --> 01:10:22,199
to Reign Supreme. Suddenly with this album, everybody that came

1421
01:10:22,239 --> 01:10:27,439
before them looks old and corny and obsolete, and that includes.

1422
01:10:27,159 --> 01:10:28,159
Speaker 2: Sugar Hill Records.

1423
01:10:28,640 --> 01:10:31,199
Speaker 6: So there's a space in the marketplace for a new

1424
01:10:31,319 --> 01:10:33,239
label to step up. Well, this is the summer of

1425
01:10:33,319 --> 01:10:35,560
nineteen eighty four, and we've already talked about it. At

1426
01:10:35,560 --> 01:10:38,239
this point, Russell has already met Rick Rubin, and that

1427
01:10:38,399 --> 01:10:41,880
summer they established deaf Jam Records as their label. And

1428
01:10:42,199 --> 01:10:45,399
immediately Russ wants to get run DMC signed to deaf

1429
01:10:45,479 --> 01:10:48,159
Jam and he can't do it. Profile Records realize they

1430
01:10:48,199 --> 01:10:50,199
just had a winning lottery ticket land in their lap

1431
01:10:50,600 --> 01:10:52,399
and they are not letting go of run DMC.

1432
01:10:52,920 --> 01:10:54,199
Speaker 2: Uh huh so.

1433
01:10:54,399 --> 01:10:59,279
Speaker 6: And so ironically, Russell, who ended up leading the biggest

1434
01:10:59,439 --> 01:11:03,680
rap label in history, whose brother was in the biggest

1435
01:11:03,760 --> 01:11:07,399
rap act in history, he never had his brother.

1436
01:11:07,159 --> 01:11:10,640
Speaker 2: On his own on his label. Wow. Wow, run DMC

1437
01:11:10,800 --> 01:11:12,079
never recorded for def Jam.

1438
01:11:12,439 --> 01:11:14,960
Speaker 4: That's insane. I did not know that. I just figured

1439
01:11:15,000 --> 01:11:15,960
that was a lock.

1440
01:11:17,399 --> 01:11:18,159
Speaker 2: What happened though.

1441
01:11:18,319 --> 01:11:20,439
Speaker 6: In the fall of eighty four, there was a concert

1442
01:11:20,520 --> 01:11:21,520
promoter down in Florida.

1443
01:11:21,600 --> 01:11:22,640
Speaker 2: His name was Ricky Walker.

1444
01:11:23,079 --> 01:11:25,359
Speaker 6: He was somebody that had managed tours before for the

1445
01:11:25,359 --> 01:11:26,479
Commodores and.

1446
01:11:26,439 --> 01:11:27,359
Speaker 2: For the Jacksons.

1447
01:11:27,479 --> 01:11:28,680
Speaker 6: He just had this idea that he can get a

1448
01:11:28,680 --> 01:11:30,880
bunch of rap acts together and some of these break

1449
01:11:30,920 --> 01:11:32,720
dancers that were in the movies that were coming out

1450
01:11:32,840 --> 01:11:35,720
and put together a packaged tour. So he went to

1451
01:11:35,720 --> 01:11:38,960
sugar Hill Records, but they were having tough times and

1452
01:11:39,039 --> 01:11:40,319
they couldn't come to terms.

1453
01:11:40,600 --> 01:11:42,079
Speaker 2: So because sugar Hill.

1454
01:11:42,159 --> 01:11:45,439
Speaker 6: He couldn't come to agreement with them, he approached Rush Entertainment,

1455
01:11:45,520 --> 01:11:48,760
Rush Management, who then agreed to provide all of the talent,

1456
01:11:49,239 --> 01:11:51,840
and so they put together a tour that was called

1457
01:11:52,000 --> 01:11:56,239
the Fresh Fest. It had Curtis blow Houdini run DMC,

1458
01:11:56,600 --> 01:11:59,560
and the Fat Boys were a group not managed by Rush,

1459
01:11:59,600 --> 01:12:01,199
but were being produced by Curtis.

1460
01:12:01,279 --> 01:12:04,159
Speaker 5: Okay, so just a minute ago you were mentioning jam

1461
01:12:04,199 --> 01:12:06,840
Master j being sort of in charge of their fashion,

1462
01:12:06,960 --> 01:12:09,000
and they dressed in their street clothes, and it was

1463
01:12:09,079 --> 01:12:11,880
the jogging suits and this and that I believe, correct

1464
01:12:11,880 --> 01:12:16,119
me if I'm wrong. But the non shoelace bearing Adidas

1465
01:12:16,279 --> 01:12:17,600
was part of that fashion.

1466
01:12:17,680 --> 01:12:18,279
Speaker 3: Is that correct?

1467
01:12:18,760 --> 01:12:19,079
Speaker 2: Yes?

1468
01:12:19,760 --> 01:12:22,319
Speaker 5: And the reason why those shoes didn't have shoelaces is

1469
01:12:22,319 --> 01:12:25,479
because when you went to jail, they took your shoelaces away.

1470
01:12:26,000 --> 01:12:29,079
Speaker 4: It's kind of similar to the modern day guys who

1471
01:12:29,079 --> 01:12:30,359
don't wear belts and they wear.

1472
01:12:30,199 --> 01:12:32,680
Speaker 5: Their pants down low because they take your belt away

1473
01:12:32,720 --> 01:12:33,479
when you go to jail.

1474
01:12:33,520 --> 01:12:35,680
Speaker 3: We run DMC was non fellon shoes.

1475
01:12:35,880 --> 01:12:38,279
Speaker 5: Well, and that's that's the thing is they said, my

1476
01:12:38,359 --> 01:12:41,520
Adidas only brings good news.

1477
01:12:42,039 --> 01:12:43,800
Speaker 2: Right, excellent, that's good stuff.

1478
01:12:44,119 --> 01:12:44,479
Speaker 4: Okay.

1479
01:12:45,039 --> 01:12:47,680
Speaker 6: So the Fresh Past was hugely successful. It toured in

1480
01:12:47,880 --> 01:12:50,239
at the end of eighty four. It made three point

1481
01:12:50,359 --> 01:12:54,039
five million dollars in just twenty seven dates, and it

1482
01:12:54,199 --> 01:12:57,720
succeeded in taking wrap out of the Bronx and taking

1483
01:12:57,760 --> 01:13:02,159
it across the country. Okay, But and this was during

1484
01:13:02,159 --> 01:13:04,880
a time when Russ was trying to get run DMC

1485
01:13:05,439 --> 01:13:07,359
to Deaf Jam. They had Deft Jam had just signed

1486
01:13:07,359 --> 01:13:09,520
their big deal with Columbia Records, got their six hundred

1487
01:13:09,520 --> 01:13:12,000
thousand dollars that we talked about, and he wanted to

1488
01:13:12,000 --> 01:13:13,800
bring run DMC over and he couldn't do it and

1489
01:13:13,840 --> 01:13:18,039
Profile wouldn't let him go, and run DMC needed cash,

1490
01:13:18,399 --> 01:13:22,000
so they ended up rushing their next studio album. They

1491
01:13:22,000 --> 01:13:23,960
got back together with Larry Smith and they went back

1492
01:13:23,960 --> 01:13:26,720
in the studio without really having a clear vision of

1493
01:13:26,760 --> 01:13:28,359
what they wanted to do, and they didn't have all

1494
01:13:28,399 --> 01:13:30,960
their material ready, but they had to get an album

1495
01:13:30,960 --> 01:13:33,279
out because they needed money. What we ended up with

1496
01:13:33,479 --> 01:13:36,520
was the album King of Rock, which they will say

1497
01:13:36,560 --> 01:13:39,960
that is their weakest of their early albums, and the

1498
01:13:40,000 --> 01:13:42,159
reason why is that they just didn't have a clear

1499
01:13:42,279 --> 01:13:44,600
centered vision. And so you see a little bit of

1500
01:13:44,640 --> 01:13:46,800
Ruben's influence on the King of Rock album.

1501
01:13:47,199 --> 01:13:48,319
Speaker 2: There's a song called Ken You.

1502
01:13:48,359 --> 01:13:50,600
Speaker 6: Rocket Like This that was actually written by ll cool

1503
01:13:50,680 --> 01:13:53,319
J that was due to Ruben's influence. There's a single

1504
01:13:53,359 --> 01:13:56,399
off the album called jam Master Jammin that Ruben actually

1505
01:13:56,439 --> 01:14:00,359
played guitar on for the single version, and their title

1506
01:14:00,439 --> 01:14:03,880
track was called King of Rock, and that was definitely

1507
01:14:04,159 --> 01:14:06,760
under the influence of Rick Rubin and it was their

1508
01:14:06,840 --> 01:14:11,159
second attempt to mail rock and roll with rap. It

1509
01:14:11,239 --> 01:14:13,880
was kind of the thematic sequel to rock Box. It's

1510
01:14:13,880 --> 01:14:15,880
called King of Rock. It is awesome. It's one of

1511
01:14:15,960 --> 01:14:18,479
their best songs. I absolutely love King of Rock.

1512
01:14:18,600 --> 01:14:23,439
Speaker 2: I'm the King, Oh Rock, hiom to call me Sia

1513
01:14:23,640 --> 01:14:25,920
to pock King, you must sue Sia.

1514
01:14:26,079 --> 01:14:28,319
Speaker 4: I'll don't stop rock and tell I retire.

1515
01:14:28,520 --> 01:14:30,039
Speaker 3: Have you seen the King of Rock video.

1516
01:14:30,279 --> 01:14:32,880
Speaker 5: Yes, if you watched if you watched MTV in nineteen

1517
01:14:32,920 --> 01:14:34,760
eighty five, you saw the King of Rock video.

1518
01:14:34,960 --> 01:14:37,159
Speaker 6: So run DMC was the first rap group to have

1519
01:14:37,199 --> 01:14:39,880
a video played on MTV. It was Rock Box. They

1520
01:14:39,880 --> 01:14:42,399
were back the very next year with King of Rock.

1521
01:14:42,479 --> 01:14:44,640
And I remember seeing this video very clearly. It's got

1522
01:14:44,680 --> 01:14:46,640
the uh, it's got Bud Melman in it.

1523
01:14:46,680 --> 01:14:50,640
Speaker 5: That the old guy, yes guy, he was hilarious from

1524
01:14:50,640 --> 01:14:51,600
the David Letterman Show.

1525
01:14:51,680 --> 01:14:54,279
Speaker 6: So nineteen eighty five, you know, that's also the year

1526
01:14:54,279 --> 01:14:57,439
of We Are the World by USA for Africa, and

1527
01:14:57,479 --> 01:15:03,399
it became this massive, massive pro to fight starvation in Africa.

1528
01:15:03,039 --> 01:15:04,239
Speaker 2: And in Ethiopia.

1529
01:15:04,399 --> 01:15:08,479
Speaker 6: Yes, this led Bob Geldoff to the idea of organizing

1530
01:15:08,760 --> 01:15:12,399
Live Aid. Live A took place in July of nineteen

1531
01:15:12,439 --> 01:15:15,720
eighty five that probably deserves its own episode from you,

1532
01:15:15,800 --> 01:15:20,359
as this enormous project, two simultaneous concerts in London and

1533
01:15:20,399 --> 01:15:22,880
Philadelphia on the same day.

1534
01:15:23,439 --> 01:15:25,439
Speaker 2: It was like the Woodstock of the eighties.

1535
01:15:25,760 --> 01:15:29,600
Speaker 6: Yes, place on July thirteenth, and they were booking all

1536
01:15:29,640 --> 01:15:31,439
these guys at the press conference in the weeks leading

1537
01:15:31,520 --> 01:15:34,640
up to this massive event that people could hardly get

1538
01:15:34,640 --> 01:15:37,119
their brains around how big this was gonna be. It

1539
01:15:37,119 --> 01:15:39,159
began to dawn on people that they hardly had any

1540
01:15:39,199 --> 01:15:41,439
black artists at all anywhere in the lineup, and they

1541
01:15:41,479 --> 01:15:43,800
didn't have any rappers, And they started catching a little

1542
01:15:43,800 --> 01:15:45,479
bit of pr heat, and they were trying to say

1543
01:15:45,520 --> 01:15:47,800
that they were reaching out to black artists and that

1544
01:15:47,880 --> 01:15:50,920
nobody was accepting them. That turned out that wasn't true.

1545
01:15:51,000 --> 01:15:52,880
They were just kind of trying to cover for themselves.

1546
01:15:53,359 --> 01:15:56,720
Russell Rush management reached out to Live Aid and said, Hey,

1547
01:15:57,000 --> 01:15:59,359
what about my guys. I've got two albums and on

1548
01:15:59,359 --> 01:16:02,359
the top two highst I've got five singles and the

1549
01:16:02,439 --> 01:16:05,800
and the top twenty the black singles, I've got videos

1550
01:16:05,840 --> 01:16:08,960
and heavy rotation on MTV. How about you booked my

1551
01:16:09,000 --> 01:16:12,319
guys on your show? They said, sorry, we don't have

1552
01:16:12,359 --> 01:16:14,399
any room. We're booked up solid. Well that was a

1553
01:16:14,439 --> 01:16:17,239
problem because they found out later that after run DMC

1554
01:16:17,399 --> 01:16:21,119
had been told that, only then did The Beach Boys,

1555
01:16:21,760 --> 01:16:25,279
Madonna and Tina Turner get offered spots.

1556
01:16:24,880 --> 01:16:25,319
Speaker 2: On the bill.

1557
01:16:25,560 --> 01:16:26,119
Speaker 4: The Beach Boys.

1558
01:16:28,000 --> 01:16:31,119
Speaker 2: Okay, okay, don't don't don't.

1559
01:16:31,119 --> 01:16:32,520
Speaker 4: I know that's your thing, right.

1560
01:16:32,399 --> 01:16:34,880
Speaker 2: Don't distract me on the Beach Boys we'll be here tomorrow.

1561
01:16:35,600 --> 01:16:36,359
Speaker 4: I'm sorry.

1562
01:16:37,079 --> 01:16:40,279
Speaker 5: In nineteen eighty five, Madonna makes sense, Tina Turner makes sense,

1563
01:16:40,359 --> 01:16:41,920
run DMC makes sense.

1564
01:16:42,600 --> 01:16:47,680
Speaker 2: And the Beach Boys Okay, all right, okay boys always

1565
01:16:47,720 --> 01:16:48,119
makes sense.

1566
01:16:48,119 --> 01:16:51,880
Speaker 5: Okay, okay, okay.

1567
01:16:50,560 --> 01:16:56,359
Speaker 6: So with increasing negative publicity they really started backtracking, and

1568
01:16:56,439 --> 01:16:59,319
finally they went to run DMC and offered them a

1569
01:16:59,359 --> 01:17:00,159
spot on the bill.

1570
01:17:00,239 --> 01:17:02,039
Speaker 2: So we want you to play at live A. So

1571
01:17:02,239 --> 01:17:05,680
did run DMC play live? Aid? Yes, they did. Did

1572
01:17:05,720 --> 01:17:08,239
anybody see them? Essentially?

1573
01:17:08,359 --> 01:17:08,399
Speaker 1: No.

1574
01:17:09,479 --> 01:17:12,800
Speaker 6: They came on at ten fifteen in the morning on

1575
01:17:12,840 --> 01:17:16,439
the Philadelphia stage and they played about a twelve minute set.

1576
01:17:16,479 --> 01:17:19,760
They played two songs, they played King of Rock and

1577
01:17:19,800 --> 01:17:22,520
they played jam Master Jamming. So the way this, if

1578
01:17:22,560 --> 01:17:25,920
it worked, they would alternate between London and Philadelphia, Okay.

1579
01:17:26,359 --> 01:17:31,079
So it started with a on the Philadelphia stage. Just

1580
01:17:31,119 --> 01:17:34,239
before run DMC went on was a reunion performance by

1581
01:17:34,239 --> 01:17:37,319
Black Sabbath at ten o'clock in the morning.

1582
01:17:39,800 --> 01:17:43,800
Speaker 5: Okay, the only might be sot them early.

1583
01:17:45,439 --> 01:17:49,000
Speaker 6: So when that was over, they cut to char Day

1584
01:17:49,359 --> 01:17:52,319
playing on the London stage. And so while she's playing

1585
01:17:52,680 --> 01:17:55,960
the stage getting set back up for Philadelphia, h okay,

1586
01:17:56,079 --> 01:17:58,399
keep going, okay, so he goes from Black Sabbath in

1587
01:17:58,399 --> 01:18:00,359
Philly straight to Charday and London.

1588
01:18:00,920 --> 01:18:02,079
Speaker 2: They come back to Philly and.

1589
01:18:02,039 --> 01:18:06,079
Speaker 6: It's run dmcy Okay, Run DMC gets part of one

1590
01:18:06,239 --> 01:18:09,119
song out and then they cut away from them and

1591
01:18:09,520 --> 01:18:12,319
the rest of their performance is not televised. And the

1592
01:18:12,359 --> 01:18:15,720
reason why is they're doing this big introduction in London

1593
01:18:15,920 --> 01:18:18,760
for STEM and so Sting gets all the airtime and

1594
01:18:18,840 --> 01:18:22,720
run DMC basically gets cut out of the broadcast. But

1595
01:18:23,399 --> 01:18:26,199
they did step on stage at Live Aid and the

1596
01:18:26,239 --> 01:18:27,039
poor got paid.

1597
01:18:27,479 --> 01:18:29,920
Speaker 4: There You go, hey, that's that's better than a kick

1598
01:18:29,920 --> 01:18:30,439
in the vans.

1599
01:18:31,680 --> 01:18:34,399
Speaker 6: Just a couple of weeks after Live Aid they appeared

1600
01:18:34,399 --> 01:18:37,520
on Dick Clark's American Bandstand and that was followed shortly

1601
01:18:37,560 --> 01:18:41,479
thereafter by Freshfest eighty five, where they restaged the concert

1602
01:18:41,520 --> 01:18:44,760
tour from the year before with the same talent lineup,

1603
01:18:45,079 --> 01:18:48,119
this time twice as many cities and they made twice

1604
01:18:48,159 --> 01:18:51,520
as much money. It was hugely successful in getting hip

1605
01:18:51,560 --> 01:18:53,880
hop out to the masses, but this time among the

1606
01:18:53,920 --> 01:18:57,359
breakdancers it included the twelve year old son of the

1607
01:18:57,399 --> 01:19:01,119
tour manager, little boy by the name of Jermaine dupri

1608
01:19:01,560 --> 01:19:02,399
that you may have heard of.

1609
01:19:03,640 --> 01:19:05,479
Speaker 2: So speeding through nineteen eighty five.

1610
01:19:05,760 --> 01:19:09,199
Speaker 6: The Crush Groove movie comes out in October, and during

1611
01:19:09,239 --> 01:19:12,760
this time, Russ is trying to capitalize on run DMC's popularity,

1612
01:19:13,439 --> 01:19:17,079
and he actually approaches The Cosby Show to try to

1613
01:19:17,079 --> 01:19:20,000
get run DMC booked on an episode of The Cosby Show,

1614
01:19:20,079 --> 01:19:22,279
and Bill Cosby said, you can have a coke and

1615
01:19:22,319 --> 01:19:22,920
the smile and.

1616
01:19:22,880 --> 01:19:23,439
Speaker 2: Get out of here.

1617
01:19:27,119 --> 01:19:30,439
Speaker 6: We don't want that kind of music on my show,

1618
01:19:31,000 --> 01:19:32,319
and so they were turned down.

1619
01:19:32,680 --> 01:19:36,359
Speaker 5: For those who don't remember, The Cosby Show was a

1620
01:19:36,600 --> 01:19:40,199
humongous thing. If they could have landed The Cosby Show,

1621
01:19:40,760 --> 01:19:43,079
that would have been they would have been handed the

1622
01:19:43,119 --> 01:19:45,359
keys to the kingdom. I mean, that was a hugely

1623
01:19:45,399 --> 01:19:46,159
popular show.

1624
01:19:46,239 --> 01:19:48,880
Speaker 6: Well, as it turns out, Malcolm Jamal Warner was a

1625
01:19:48,960 --> 01:19:50,199
huge run DMC fan.

1626
01:19:50,560 --> 01:19:51,520
Speaker 4: Is that right? Okay?

1627
01:19:52,119 --> 01:19:52,399
Speaker 6: Phil?

1628
01:19:53,279 --> 01:19:55,720
Speaker 2: And the guy playing Theo Huxable on The Cosby Show.

1629
01:19:56,079 --> 01:19:59,640
Speaker 6: And at the same time, NBC was running a program

1630
01:19:59,720 --> 01:20:03,319
called Friday Night Videos. Yes, and so even though Bill

1631
01:20:03,399 --> 01:20:05,840
Cosby didn't want that kind of music on his show,

1632
01:20:06,079 --> 01:20:08,840
they at the time that the Crush Groove movie came out,

1633
01:20:09,239 --> 01:20:13,920
Malcolm Jamal Warner and Lisa Bonnet reprised their Cosby Show.

1634
01:20:14,039 --> 01:20:17,039
Characters from the set of The Cosby Show recorded a

1635
01:20:17,079 --> 01:20:21,159
segment in character for Friday Night Videos where they introduced

1636
01:20:21,520 --> 01:20:24,000
run DMC's next music video.

1637
01:20:24,319 --> 01:20:26,960
Speaker 2: And they played the King of Rock clip.

1638
01:20:27,319 --> 01:20:29,680
Speaker 6: Not there, not their video that had been all over MTV,

1639
01:20:30,079 --> 01:20:32,840
but the clip from the Crush Groove movie which was.

1640
01:20:32,800 --> 01:20:33,800
Speaker 2: Coming out at the same time.

1641
01:20:34,119 --> 01:20:36,800
Speaker 6: Okay, so they got they ran it in the round

1642
01:20:36,880 --> 01:20:38,760
around uh around Bill Cosby there.

1643
01:20:38,840 --> 01:20:41,920
Speaker 2: So basically as soon as.

1644
01:20:41,600 --> 01:20:44,319
Speaker 6: The fresh Fest was over, there was another opportunity to

1645
01:20:44,359 --> 01:20:47,960
work on a couple of other charity songs. This was

1646
01:20:48,000 --> 01:20:52,119
at a time when apartheid in South Africa was kind

1647
01:20:52,119 --> 01:20:55,399
of at its worst and there was a growing sentiment

1648
01:20:55,800 --> 01:21:00,439
among entertainers for a boycott for for playing their sun

1649
01:21:00,520 --> 01:21:04,159
City was this huge resort for the white people in

1650
01:21:04,199 --> 01:21:07,319
South Africa where they would pay enormous amounts of money

1651
01:21:07,319 --> 01:21:09,720
for entertainers to come play. But it was getting to

1652
01:21:09,760 --> 01:21:11,920
the point where like you could not in good conscience

1653
01:21:12,039 --> 01:21:16,039
do that because of the apartheid that was going on,

1654
01:21:16,119 --> 01:21:19,680
the racial discrimination that was in South Africa. And so

1655
01:21:19,960 --> 01:21:21,640
a musician you may have heard of by the name

1656
01:21:21,680 --> 01:21:26,279
of Stephen van Zandt decided to record a record to

1657
01:21:26,319 --> 01:21:28,239
bring attention to this situation.

1658
01:21:28,479 --> 01:21:30,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, he had a pretty big part in an album

1659
01:21:30,800 --> 01:21:31,680
in nineteen eighty four.

1660
01:21:34,239 --> 01:21:37,600
Speaker 2: He's from Bruce Bringsteen's East Street band, Yep, Yep, yep.

1661
01:21:37,720 --> 01:21:40,800
Speaker 6: He's very political and he was able to rally all

1662
01:21:40,840 --> 01:21:43,000
these artists together to make this record.

1663
01:21:43,159 --> 01:21:45,840
Speaker 2: He got like fifty of them, more than fifty of them, but.

1664
01:21:45,960 --> 01:21:50,960
Speaker 6: First among them was run DMC and so they put

1665
01:21:50,960 --> 01:21:53,159
this song out and it was a huge success, and

1666
01:21:53,520 --> 01:21:55,199
it was a huge success that did a lot to

1667
01:21:55,239 --> 01:21:58,079
bring attention to what was going on in South Africa.

1668
01:21:58,239 --> 01:22:00,640
At the time that they were approached, Daryl and Joe

1669
01:22:00,720 --> 01:22:03,199
knew nothing about any of it, and so they learned

1670
01:22:03,199 --> 01:22:05,119
all about it and they so of course they supported

1671
01:22:05,119 --> 01:22:07,880
this project and the song was called sun City, and

1672
01:22:08,079 --> 01:22:10,640
New York Times ended up naming it the Single of.

1673
01:22:10,600 --> 01:22:18,880
Speaker 2: The Year for nineteen eighty five. Wow.

1674
01:22:19,680 --> 01:22:22,479
Speaker 6: At the same time, January of eighty six is just

1675
01:22:22,520 --> 01:22:24,399
around the corner and it's going to be the first

1676
01:22:24,479 --> 01:22:30,520
ever MLK holiday and Martin Luther King's son Dexter King,

1677
01:22:30,800 --> 01:22:34,000
decided he wanted to produce a rap record to teach

1678
01:22:34,119 --> 01:22:36,640
kids about his father and the work he had done,

1679
01:22:37,479 --> 01:22:41,560
and so he approached Run DMC and Curtis Blow and

1680
01:22:41,680 --> 01:22:47,720
New Edition Lebarge Lisa Lisa. All these artists collaborated on

1681
01:22:47,800 --> 01:22:55,000
a song called King Holiday Fellow Creation, and they wanted

1682
01:22:55,039 --> 01:22:56,760
to get it out in time for the middle of

1683
01:22:56,840 --> 01:22:59,840
January for the first first iteration of this Holiday That's Coming.

1684
01:23:00,319 --> 01:23:02,760
Speaker 2: But the record label would not give them the money

1685
01:23:02,920 --> 01:23:03,760
for a music video.

1686
01:23:04,079 --> 01:23:07,199
Speaker 6: So guess who came to the rescue and provided his

1687
01:23:07,239 --> 01:23:09,600
own money to make sure the music video happened.

1688
01:23:09,640 --> 01:23:11,199
Speaker 2: Prince Whoa.

1689
01:23:12,239 --> 01:23:15,359
Speaker 6: He'd been unable to participate in the record because he

1690
01:23:15,399 --> 01:23:18,399
was busy filming Under the Cherry Moon, but he came

1691
01:23:18,439 --> 01:23:20,399
back and provided the money and allowed.

1692
01:23:20,119 --> 01:23:21,520
Speaker 2: This music video to be made.

1693
01:23:21,680 --> 01:23:22,319
Speaker 3: That's awesome.

1694
01:23:22,439 --> 01:23:23,520
Speaker 4: Let me just make a comment.

1695
01:23:23,680 --> 01:23:26,680
Speaker 5: I can't let that go without saying Under the Cherry

1696
01:23:26,720 --> 01:23:29,800
Moon is one of the worst movies of the nineteen eighties.

1697
01:23:31,199 --> 01:23:35,079
Purple Rain awesome, Under the Cherry Moon not awesome.

1698
01:23:35,479 --> 01:23:37,680
Speaker 2: Keep going, okay.

1699
01:23:37,840 --> 01:23:43,359
Speaker 6: So that gets us to nineteen eighty six, and it

1700
01:23:43,439 --> 01:23:47,560
is these early months of nineteen eighty six where they

1701
01:23:47,600 --> 01:23:50,960
begin working on their next album that will be Raising Hell.

1702
01:23:51,840 --> 01:23:54,359
At this point, Larry Smith is out of the picture,

1703
01:23:54,960 --> 01:23:57,399
and Rick Rubin, who had worked on King of Rock,

1704
01:23:57,439 --> 01:23:59,479
and Ken You Rocket like This and jam Master Jammin.

1705
01:23:59,560 --> 01:24:02,319
He took over as the producer for this new project.

1706
01:24:02,359 --> 01:24:05,039
The table was set for Run DMC. This was their

1707
01:24:05,079 --> 01:24:08,520
career making moment. They knew that everything had lined up

1708
01:24:08,800 --> 01:24:10,840
for this to be the album to put them over

1709
01:24:10,880 --> 01:24:15,960
the top. Okay, because they had unprecedented visibility. They had

1710
01:24:16,039 --> 01:24:18,800
live a, they had an American bandstand. They had been on

1711
01:24:18,840 --> 01:24:21,159
these charity songs that had gotten a lot of play.

1712
01:24:21,239 --> 01:24:24,520
They had appeared on TV shows, they were in a movie. Okay,

1713
01:24:24,560 --> 01:24:28,239
everybody knew who they were. At the same time, llll

1714
01:24:28,319 --> 01:24:31,479
cool Jay's first album had come out, so that's that.

1715
01:24:31,680 --> 01:24:33,760
Speaker 2: Ellen Cooley's first album is called Radio.

1716
01:24:34,399 --> 01:24:37,520
Speaker 6: It was also produced by Rick Rubin, so there's actually

1717
01:24:37,720 --> 01:24:39,239
a hip hop trilogy by.

1718
01:24:39,800 --> 01:24:42,920
Speaker 2: Ruben and Radio was the first one to be released. Wow,

1719
01:24:42,920 --> 01:24:44,880
and it came out. It was huge. There were several

1720
01:24:44,960 --> 01:24:45,520
hits from it.

1721
01:24:46,159 --> 01:24:51,720
Speaker 6: And this created an immense competition between Ron and LL

1722
01:24:51,960 --> 01:24:55,359
cool J. They really had this contentious relationship that was

1723
01:24:55,520 --> 01:24:58,640
very combative and they are trying to out wrap each other.

1724
01:24:58,680 --> 01:25:03,079
They would have these freestyle rins battles backstage and Run

1725
01:25:03,119 --> 01:25:05,199
would get mad at ll thinking he was trying to

1726
01:25:05,239 --> 01:25:07,600
cop his style and all this kind of stuff. The

1727
01:25:07,680 --> 01:25:09,800
album had come out and was huge, and so Run

1728
01:25:09,840 --> 01:25:11,119
was like, I gotta be better than ll.

1729
01:25:11,520 --> 01:25:13,840
Speaker 2: This was the moment all eyes were on Run DMC.

1730
01:25:14,039 --> 01:25:16,760
Speaker 6: They were never gonna have the table set for them,

1731
01:25:16,880 --> 01:25:20,000
and the competition was fierce, so they had to come

1732
01:25:20,119 --> 01:25:23,279
with a grand slam. They didn't like the way King

1733
01:25:23,279 --> 01:25:25,880
of Rock had turned out, and so they were determined

1734
01:25:25,920 --> 01:25:28,760
to make sure that the next album would be the

1735
01:25:28,800 --> 01:25:32,680
best it could possibly be. And with that attitude, they

1736
01:25:32,720 --> 01:25:36,359
went into the studios with Rick Rubin and started laying

1737
01:25:36,399 --> 01:25:40,399
down tracks for what would prove to be their greatest

1738
01:25:40,439 --> 01:25:43,439
album in their career and one of the greatest ever

1739
01:25:43,640 --> 01:25:45,079
in the history of rap.

1740
01:25:47,159 --> 01:25:50,560
Speaker 3: So are we ready to jump in track by track?

1741
01:25:51,640 --> 01:25:52,319
Speaker 4: Next week?

1742
01:25:52,600 --> 01:25:52,840
Speaker 3: Oh?

1743
01:25:53,760 --> 01:25:57,000
Speaker 4: Next week? What we're gonna go? Track by track?

1744
01:25:57,039 --> 01:25:59,920
Speaker 5: We'll go through each of these songs from Raising Hell

1745
01:26:00,000 --> 01:26:03,079
well and we will talk again with Deaf Dave.

1746
01:26:03,279 --> 01:26:05,920
Speaker 3: Dear listeners, if you have been with us this long,

1747
01:26:06,039 --> 01:26:08,720
please don't forget to hit that follow button in the face.

1748
01:26:09,039 --> 01:26:12,199
Make sure to check us out on Facebook and Twitter,

1749
01:26:12,239 --> 01:26:13,840
and if you want to send us an email, you

1750
01:26:13,880 --> 01:26:18,279
can hit us at Shirleypodcast at gmail dot com. Thank

1751
01:26:18,359 --> 01:26:21,960
you so much for listening, Dave. It has been awesome

1752
01:26:21,960 --> 01:26:23,439
to hear these stories. Thank you so much.

1753
01:26:24,399 --> 01:26:26,319
Speaker 2: Thanks for having me on. I love talking about this stuff.

1754
01:26:26,680 --> 01:26:30,199
Speaker 3: We will be back with Deaf Dave next week and

1755
01:26:30,279 --> 01:26:33,039
go through Raisin Hell track by track.

1756
01:26:33,600 --> 01:26:41,279
Speaker 4: See you then, Peter, Pip, Pig pappas time exact me

1757
01:26:41,359 --> 01:26:42,239
nimble what nimble?

1758
01:26:42,279 --> 01:26:42,640
Speaker 6: Any what?

1759
01:26:42,880 --> 01:26:43,479
Speaker 4: Quick but jam