WEBVTT

1
00:00:01.080 --> 00:00:04.799
<v Speaker 1>How'd you like to listen to dot NetRocks with no ads? Easy?

2
00:00:05.360 --> 00:00:08.560
<v Speaker 1>Become a patron for just five dollars a month. You

3
00:00:08.599 --> 00:00:11.320
<v Speaker 1>get access to a private RSS feed where all the

4
00:00:11.359 --> 00:00:14.599
<v Speaker 1>shows have no ads. Twenty dollars a month. We'll get

5
00:00:14.599 --> 00:00:18.440
<v Speaker 1>you that and a special dot NetRocks patron mug. Sign

6
00:00:18.519 --> 00:00:34.280
<v Speaker 1>up now at Patreon dot dot NetRocks dot com. Hey

7
00:00:34.320 --> 00:00:38.560
<v Speaker 1>guess what. It's dot net rocks all over again. I'm

8
00:00:38.640 --> 00:00:40.960
<v Speaker 1>Carl Franklin and I'm Richard Campbell. We're gonna be talking

9
00:00:41.000 --> 00:00:45.399
<v Speaker 1>to our friend Richard Rukima. But first, hey, mister Campbell,

10
00:00:45.439 --> 00:00:45.960
<v Speaker 1>how are you?

11
00:00:46.240 --> 00:00:49.960
<v Speaker 2>Yes, friend, I'm good. Somehow it's February, you know, time

12
00:00:50.000 --> 00:00:50.719
<v Speaker 2>shifting wise?

13
00:00:51.000 --> 00:00:52.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, somehow?

14
00:00:52.600 --> 00:00:55.240
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, this is publishing on February thirteenth, which means

15
00:00:55.240 --> 00:00:57.359
<v Speaker 2>my thirtieth anniversary just happened.

16
00:00:57.560 --> 00:01:00.200
<v Speaker 1>Wow. Yeah, Are you gonna go out to this store

17
00:01:00.280 --> 00:01:03.280
<v Speaker 1>and buy an eight dollars head of lettuce? Just wondering?

18
00:01:03.439 --> 00:01:06.920
<v Speaker 2>Is that the is the thirtieth Lettuce anniversary? Is that it? No?

19
00:01:06.920 --> 00:01:08.280
<v Speaker 1>No, I just think it's when.

20
00:01:08.120 --> 00:01:09.640
<v Speaker 2>The tariffski get.

21
00:01:12.879 --> 00:01:14.159
<v Speaker 1>It's not even funny, you.

22
00:01:14.120 --> 00:01:17.280
<v Speaker 2>Know, it's I don't all right, of course we're speculating

23
00:01:17.319 --> 00:01:18.560
<v Speaker 2>as to what's actually going to happen.

24
00:01:18.599 --> 00:01:19.239
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, we don't know.

25
00:01:19.280 --> 00:01:20.640
<v Speaker 2>We don't know, we don't we don't know.

26
00:01:20.760 --> 00:01:23.000
<v Speaker 1>It makes a good joke, might even doesn't It.

27
00:01:22.799 --> 00:01:24.200
<v Speaker 3>Might even be in US dollars.

28
00:01:24.760 --> 00:01:29.439
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I have the Canadian US saying I guess I'm

29
00:01:29.439 --> 00:01:36.439
<v Speaker 2>going to come up to America. Yeah, the Gulf of Canada.

30
00:01:37.920 --> 00:01:40.519
<v Speaker 1>This is bad. I have two Canadians that are ganging

31
00:01:40.599 --> 00:01:44.480
<v Speaker 1>up on the American here trouble. All right, let's kick

32
00:01:44.480 --> 00:01:46.799
<v Speaker 1>it off with better no framework, roll the crazy music.

33
00:01:54.400 --> 00:01:55.239
<v Speaker 2>All right, man, what do you got?

34
00:01:55.439 --> 00:01:58.640
<v Speaker 1>Okay? Well, I went looking for, you know, GitHub repos

35
00:01:58.640 --> 00:02:01.719
<v Speaker 1>that are trending right now, and like the top five

36
00:02:01.799 --> 00:02:03.400
<v Speaker 1>are all AI things.

37
00:02:03.400 --> 00:02:05.480
<v Speaker 2>Oh geez, no, you.

38
00:02:05.400 --> 00:02:07.799
<v Speaker 1>Know it's no surprise, right.

39
00:02:07.680 --> 00:02:09.599
<v Speaker 2>So yeah, no, it's all it's getting a lot of

40
00:02:09.719 --> 00:02:11.039
<v Speaker 2>energy and it's down two ways about it.

41
00:02:11.080 --> 00:02:15.639
<v Speaker 1>The number one was coge kho j. I don't know

42
00:02:15.639 --> 00:02:17.919
<v Speaker 1>how you pronounce it. It's one of those made up

43
00:02:18.000 --> 00:02:23.280
<v Speaker 1>names that nobody knows how to pronounce, Codge, coge whatever.

44
00:02:23.479 --> 00:02:28.840
<v Speaker 1>But here's the about your AI second brain, self hostable,

45
00:02:29.319 --> 00:02:33.280
<v Speaker 1>get answers from the web or your docs, build custom agents,

46
00:02:33.560 --> 00:02:37.919
<v Speaker 1>schedule automations, do deep research, turn any online or local

47
00:02:38.120 --> 00:02:44.319
<v Speaker 1>LM into your personal autonomous AI supports GPT, Claude, Gemini,

48
00:02:44.840 --> 00:02:48.759
<v Speaker 1>Lama Quen, is it Gwen or Quinn.

49
00:02:49.000 --> 00:02:50.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's one of the local LM and.

50
00:02:50.960 --> 00:02:56.000
<v Speaker 1>Mistral and get started for free. That's all I know

51
00:02:56.039 --> 00:02:59.520
<v Speaker 1>about it. But they have some videos and that kind

52
00:02:59.560 --> 00:03:01.800
<v Speaker 1>of stuff, and like I said, it's trending and it's

53
00:03:01.800 --> 00:03:05.719
<v Speaker 1>in that AI category. It's all built in Python by

54
00:03:05.759 --> 00:03:10.400
<v Speaker 1>the way, so you know, but they have documentation and

55
00:03:10.439 --> 00:03:13.400
<v Speaker 1>they have source and all that stuff. So if you're

56
00:03:13.400 --> 00:03:16.759
<v Speaker 1>into it and you want another, you know, another Python

57
00:03:16.879 --> 00:03:21.120
<v Speaker 1>project to look after, go for it. That's what I got,

58
00:03:21.120 --> 00:03:22.439
<v Speaker 1>all right. He was talking to us today.

59
00:03:22.520 --> 00:03:25.159
<v Speaker 2>Richard Grady comment, I went the way back machine on

60
00:03:25.199 --> 00:03:26.719
<v Speaker 2>this one, okay, because I know we're going to talk

61
00:03:26.719 --> 00:03:30.240
<v Speaker 2>about data privacy and the like. And back in twenty fourteen,

62
00:03:30.680 --> 00:03:34.039
<v Speaker 2>on show nine sixty five, so almost a thousand shows ago,

63
00:03:34.080 --> 00:03:36.919
<v Speaker 2>we did a show with Hugh Jones talking about EU

64
00:03:37.159 --> 00:03:39.599
<v Speaker 2>data protection losses. This when of the GDPR was just

65
00:03:39.599 --> 00:03:41.879
<v Speaker 2>coming into play, right, and so it was good to

66
00:03:41.919 --> 00:03:44.080
<v Speaker 2>have a conversation about, you know, what does this look like,

67
00:03:44.080 --> 00:03:46.960
<v Speaker 2>what should we do? And so ten years ago Charles

68
00:03:46.960 --> 00:03:51.319
<v Speaker 2>wrote this comment and I'm going to summarize because it's

69
00:03:51.360 --> 00:03:53.400
<v Speaker 2>quite a long comedy talking a little about terrorism and

70
00:03:53.400 --> 00:03:55.560
<v Speaker 2>things like this, but I want to specifically get into

71
00:03:56.039 --> 00:03:59.560
<v Speaker 2>the sort of rational some of these things about, you know,

72
00:03:59.599 --> 00:04:02.240
<v Speaker 2>don't I don't want to prepare, prepare over cynical, But

73
00:04:02.319 --> 00:04:05.080
<v Speaker 2>people seem to react irrationally to terrorism, and most governments

74
00:04:05.080 --> 00:04:08.199
<v Speaker 2>are exploiting that. It's easy to justify anything when pretending

75
00:04:08.199 --> 00:04:09.680
<v Speaker 2>it will save the life of a child. This is

76
00:04:09.680 --> 00:04:13.599
<v Speaker 2>twenty fourteenth, just to you know. And the reality is

77
00:04:13.639 --> 00:04:16.240
<v Speaker 2>that we should, but we must stay irrational. Doctors irrational

78
00:04:16.279 --> 00:04:19.360
<v Speaker 2>when they consider applying a vaccine to an entire population.

79
00:04:19.959 --> 00:04:22.279
<v Speaker 2>They are certain they will kill a number of people

80
00:04:22.720 --> 00:04:24.720
<v Speaker 2>because of side effects, but it will save a far

81
00:04:24.920 --> 00:04:30.399
<v Speaker 2>larger number. Kind of on the point, isn't it. And

82
00:04:30.439 --> 00:04:32.480
<v Speaker 2>of course he goes on to talk about the role

83
00:04:32.519 --> 00:04:37.199
<v Speaker 2>of nine to eleven in extending the surveillance state massively,

84
00:04:38.120 --> 00:04:42.000
<v Speaker 2>and he does not believe that the NSSA and are

85
00:04:42.040 --> 00:04:44.639
<v Speaker 2>it's European equivalent, So are using new powers only against terrorism.

86
00:04:44.680 --> 00:04:46.759
<v Speaker 2>It's a lot to do with political and business intelligence.

87
00:04:47.120 --> 00:04:49.959
<v Speaker 2>So I'm not shocked at NSA spies on some European leaders.

88
00:04:50.000 --> 00:04:52.279
<v Speaker 2>It's their job. But I am a bit shocked that

89
00:04:52.319 --> 00:04:54.759
<v Speaker 2>they spy on everyone. This is right after the snow

90
00:04:54.800 --> 00:04:58.759
<v Speaker 2>did reveal right again, I think what surprised me most

91
00:04:58.800 --> 00:05:00.759
<v Speaker 2>about the snowed and affair is not so much to

92
00:05:00.800 --> 00:05:03.639
<v Speaker 2>scale the NSA spine, but the lack of reaction from

93
00:05:03.680 --> 00:05:05.879
<v Speaker 2>everyone else, and probably the lack of understanding of the

94
00:05:05.879 --> 00:05:08.639
<v Speaker 2>implications of what is going on there. Making a list

95
00:05:08.680 --> 00:05:10.319
<v Speaker 2>of what data is collected on us would be an

96
00:05:10.319 --> 00:05:14.360
<v Speaker 2>interesting geek out. Show your mobile collects and uploads all

97
00:05:14.399 --> 00:05:17.399
<v Speaker 2>the places you've been in a day, and a nice

98
00:05:17.439 --> 00:05:21.560
<v Speaker 2>little phone app with buttons to link your web browsing

99
00:05:21.920 --> 00:05:24.399
<v Speaker 2>if your identity as well. Your web mail provider can

100
00:05:24.439 --> 00:05:27.720
<v Speaker 2>get us your religion, political opinion, sexual orientation without having

101
00:05:27.759 --> 00:05:29.839
<v Speaker 2>to ask. They even figure out if you're pregnant or not.

102
00:05:30.439 --> 00:05:31.759
<v Speaker 2>And if they don't do it now, there's nothing that

103
00:05:31.800 --> 00:05:33.480
<v Speaker 2>will print them from doing it someday in the future.

104
00:05:33.800 --> 00:05:37.399
<v Speaker 2>The inner things will only make this worse. We should

105
00:05:37.439 --> 00:05:39.399
<v Speaker 2>be keeping this in mind as we look at one

106
00:05:39.439 --> 00:05:41.639
<v Speaker 2>of the most fundamental laws of nature that what can

107
00:05:41.720 --> 00:05:46.560
<v Speaker 2>go wrong will eventually go wrong someday. So now, there

108
00:05:46.680 --> 00:05:49.519
<v Speaker 2>was Charles talking about the surveillance state back in twenty

109
00:05:49.519 --> 00:05:52.319
<v Speaker 2>fourteen when the whole snowedent thing had blown up, and

110
00:05:52.360 --> 00:05:54.759
<v Speaker 2>we were all talking about at least the fact that

111
00:05:54.800 --> 00:05:57.680
<v Speaker 2>governments were doing it, but just a recognition that social

112
00:05:57.759 --> 00:06:01.120
<v Speaker 2>media was doing it as well. So thanks Charles. I

113
00:06:01.160 --> 00:06:03.959
<v Speaker 2>read your comment on the show, and a copy of

114
00:06:04.040 --> 00:06:05.600
<v Speaker 2>music to Koba is on its way to UNI. If

115
00:06:05.600 --> 00:06:07.000
<v Speaker 2>you'd like a copy of music Gooba. I write a

116
00:06:07.000 --> 00:06:08.959
<v Speaker 2>comment on the website at dot net rocks dot comma

117
00:06:09.000 --> 00:06:10.639
<v Speaker 2>on the facebooks. We publish every show there, and if

118
00:06:10.639 --> 00:06:12.519
<v Speaker 2>you comment there and are reading the show, we'll send

119
00:06:12.560 --> 00:06:13.480
<v Speaker 2>you copy music Koba.

120
00:06:13.600 --> 00:06:16.000
<v Speaker 1>And you could follow us on the other social media's

121
00:06:16.480 --> 00:06:19.800
<v Speaker 1>We've been on ex Twitter forever. We're also on Macedon

122
00:06:19.839 --> 00:06:23.480
<v Speaker 1>in Blue Sky is the current hotness where there seems

123
00:06:23.519 --> 00:06:27.399
<v Speaker 1>to be a lot of engagement there, so some variation

124
00:06:27.519 --> 00:06:30.879
<v Speaker 1>of at Carl Franklin, at Rich Campbell, We'll get you there,

125
00:06:31.040 --> 00:06:35.319
<v Speaker 1>you'll find us, you'll find us. Let's talk about the year, right,

126
00:06:35.920 --> 00:06:38.439
<v Speaker 1>nineteen thirty seven, eighteen thirty seven. I'm just going to

127
00:06:38.519 --> 00:06:40.959
<v Speaker 1>pick a few. You know. The thing is, I can't

128
00:06:41.000 --> 00:06:44.199
<v Speaker 1>even get through March, yeah, because there's so many things

129
00:06:44.199 --> 00:06:48.800
<v Speaker 1>that happen. January first, Golden Gate Bridge opens to pedestriansyay.

130
00:06:49.160 --> 00:06:54.079
<v Speaker 1>January twelfth, first woman elected to the US Senate. Hattie

131
00:06:54.120 --> 00:06:57.759
<v Speaker 1>Wyatt Caraway of Arkansas made history by becoming the first

132
00:06:57.759 --> 00:07:02.480
<v Speaker 1>woman elected to the US Senate. January nineteenth, Howard Hughes

133
00:07:02.560 --> 00:07:09.240
<v Speaker 1>remember that crazy guy sets transcontinental air speed record. Very good.

134
00:07:09.680 --> 00:07:16.160
<v Speaker 1>January thirtieth, Hitler's ominous Reichstag speech. In a significant diplomatic

135
00:07:16.199 --> 00:07:20.560
<v Speaker 1>and rhetorical moment, Hitler addresses the Reichstag warning that the

136
00:07:20.600 --> 00:07:23.720
<v Speaker 1>outbreak of war would result in the complete destruction of Germany.

137
00:07:24.480 --> 00:07:25.120
<v Speaker 1>And he was right.

138
00:07:27.040 --> 00:07:28.199
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, okay.

139
00:07:29.160 --> 00:07:32.360
<v Speaker 1>Nineteen thirty seven saw a massive destruction in massacres in

140
00:07:32.399 --> 00:07:36.279
<v Speaker 1>Ethiopia at the hands of the Italian forces were very bad. Also,

141
00:07:36.680 --> 00:07:39.879
<v Speaker 1>many events in the Spanish Civil War, too many to mention.

142
00:07:41.240 --> 00:07:47.240
<v Speaker 1>March third, Emelia Earhart's mysterious disappearance and you got anything, Richard.

143
00:07:48.120 --> 00:07:51.120
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. This nineteen thirty seven is the year that Hindenberg

144
00:07:51.160 --> 00:07:53.600
<v Speaker 2>went down that famous video clip. You've seen it and

145
00:07:53.680 --> 00:07:55.000
<v Speaker 2>the oh the humanity.

146
00:07:54.600 --> 00:07:57.000
<v Speaker 1>That's oh the humanity. Ay. Yeah.

147
00:07:57.040 --> 00:08:00.439
<v Speaker 2>It's also the year that the first jet eng were

148
00:08:00.480 --> 00:08:02.439
<v Speaker 2>being tested be into development for a couple of years,

149
00:08:02.439 --> 00:08:06.439
<v Speaker 2>but both Ohan and Whittell did their ground testing of

150
00:08:06.480 --> 00:08:09.279
<v Speaker 2>turbine engines. So yeah, even before the war started, the

151
00:08:09.279 --> 00:08:11.120
<v Speaker 2>engines were already in development, right.

152
00:08:10.959 --> 00:08:13.639
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, there's a lot of military technology going on.

153
00:08:14.160 --> 00:08:16.160
<v Speaker 2>There's a lot going on. It was a spendee time.

154
00:08:16.480 --> 00:08:19.439
<v Speaker 1>It was a spending time. Yeah, all right, so let

155
00:08:19.519 --> 00:08:23.560
<v Speaker 1>us bring in for the second time on dot net

156
00:08:23.680 --> 00:08:27.040
<v Speaker 1>Rocks the third time? Is it second or third?

157
00:08:27.680 --> 00:08:29.600
<v Speaker 3>Second? We've met three times?

158
00:08:31.040 --> 00:08:36.440
<v Speaker 1>Okay? Well. Richard Rukmu's expertise is in creating or integrating

159
00:08:36.480 --> 00:08:41.000
<v Speaker 1>software into a business value proposition. He's performed in many

160
00:08:41.039 --> 00:08:43.559
<v Speaker 1>roles throughout his career, but remains focused on delivering an

161
00:08:43.559 --> 00:08:48.159
<v Speaker 1>efficient and effective business process, blending the characteristics of a

162
00:08:48.200 --> 00:08:52.320
<v Speaker 1>deep technical resource, an entrepreneur mindset, and a business analyst.

163
00:08:52.919 --> 00:08:56.039
<v Speaker 1>Richard always begins his work by understanding the business context

164
00:08:56.159 --> 00:08:59.440
<v Speaker 1>for his service. There's more about that, but he really

165
00:08:59.480 --> 00:09:04.440
<v Speaker 1>wants to talk about his experience in Italian vineyards, right. Absolutely.

166
00:09:07.320 --> 00:09:09.879
<v Speaker 3>The pairing of coding in a castle and wine go

167
00:09:10.240 --> 00:09:11.000
<v Speaker 3>very well together.

168
00:09:11.240 --> 00:09:15.519
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, they certainly do. So, welcome back, Richard.

169
00:09:15.600 --> 00:09:18.399
<v Speaker 2>Thank you very much. Appreciate appreciate being on the show.

170
00:09:19.000 --> 00:09:22.960
<v Speaker 1>Absolutely, and you have a lot to talk about today.

171
00:09:23.000 --> 00:09:27.480
<v Speaker 1>You send us a whole bunch of topic ideas well,

172
00:09:27.519 --> 00:09:29.639
<v Speaker 1>one big topic idea. But I'm just gonna let you

173
00:09:29.639 --> 00:09:29.919
<v Speaker 1>take it.

174
00:09:30.039 --> 00:09:32.559
<v Speaker 3>Well, I've been working in this space for a while,

175
00:09:32.759 --> 00:09:34.960
<v Speaker 3>and I thought I had some time off, and I thought,

176
00:09:34.960 --> 00:09:36.559
<v Speaker 3>what can I do with my time off? And I thought,

177
00:09:36.639 --> 00:09:39.080
<v Speaker 3>I know what I'll do. I'll write a book. Yeah, sure,

178
00:09:39.159 --> 00:09:41.960
<v Speaker 3>And the book's called The book is called The Empowered

179
00:09:42.240 --> 00:09:46.320
<v Speaker 3>Customer dot Com. Yeah, and it takes the perspective of

180
00:09:46.519 --> 00:09:51.159
<v Speaker 3>a customer's viewpoint of their data and how it's used

181
00:09:51.240 --> 00:09:54.519
<v Speaker 3>in marketing, and how I can control and use that data.

182
00:09:54.559 --> 00:09:57.919
<v Speaker 3>And I document how I create what is called a

183
00:09:58.000 --> 00:10:02.639
<v Speaker 3>data cooperative, in which everybody owns their data into the cooperative,

184
00:10:03.039 --> 00:10:06.960
<v Speaker 3>but the aggregation of the data becomes more valuable and

185
00:10:07.000 --> 00:10:09.320
<v Speaker 3>the revenue from that data is then shared with those

186
00:10:09.360 --> 00:10:10.039
<v Speaker 3>that contribute.

187
00:10:10.399 --> 00:10:12.720
<v Speaker 1>Give me an example of this I'm trying to find.

188
00:10:13.360 --> 00:10:15.879
<v Speaker 1>I mean, when I think about data, I think about

189
00:10:16.320 --> 00:10:20.679
<v Speaker 1>data being you know, usage, data being stolen from people's

190
00:10:20.679 --> 00:10:24.120
<v Speaker 1>phones and they're never seeing a dime for that data.

191
00:10:24.840 --> 00:10:27.759
<v Speaker 2>But stolen's too strong a term. Right now, Natalie, give

192
00:10:27.799 --> 00:10:28.240
<v Speaker 2>it away.

193
00:10:28.919 --> 00:10:32.399
<v Speaker 1>You agrieved for them to you let them steal it. Okay,

194
00:10:32.519 --> 00:10:33.080
<v Speaker 1>how about that?

195
00:10:33.159 --> 00:10:35.000
<v Speaker 3>So one of my one of my posts that I've

196
00:10:35.000 --> 00:10:38.679
<v Speaker 3>put up often is what if Google was a cooperative right,

197
00:10:39.000 --> 00:10:41.960
<v Speaker 3>would may be worth billions? It's worth billions if not

198
00:10:42.080 --> 00:10:46.360
<v Speaker 3>more right every time, wouldn't be you know? Said m hmm, yeah,

199
00:10:46.360 --> 00:10:49.159
<v Speaker 3>I wouldn't. Well, the data is worth billions that are

200
00:10:49.200 --> 00:10:54.000
<v Speaker 3>providing it, right, But the the how does Google get

201
00:10:54.039 --> 00:10:56.519
<v Speaker 3>their data that they can sell and make that valuation?

202
00:10:56.799 --> 00:10:56.879
<v Speaker 1>Like?

203
00:10:56.919 --> 00:10:59.120
<v Speaker 3>How do they get their data? And it's very simple

204
00:10:59.559 --> 00:11:02.039
<v Speaker 3>in that they it's the breadcrumb of information that you

205
00:11:02.120 --> 00:11:05.320
<v Speaker 3>use for search terms in their search bar. So if

206
00:11:05.320 --> 00:11:09.919
<v Speaker 3>you say ski Calgary, that reveals a lot about you

207
00:11:10.519 --> 00:11:13.879
<v Speaker 3>and that gets tagged to your profile and Google immediately

208
00:11:13.919 --> 00:11:15.519
<v Speaker 3>then says, hey, I got a customer that wants to

209
00:11:15.519 --> 00:11:17.600
<v Speaker 3>go skiing and he lives in Calgary. Who wants to

210
00:11:17.600 --> 00:11:20.399
<v Speaker 3>know about this guy? And they sell that targeted advertising

211
00:11:20.799 --> 00:11:23.440
<v Speaker 3>based on just those two terms. But it's just not

212
00:11:23.480 --> 00:11:26.600
<v Speaker 3>those two terms, it's your entire history of search with Google,

213
00:11:26.879 --> 00:11:31.240
<v Speaker 3>regardless of your persona or anything else. That those tags

214
00:11:31.279 --> 00:11:34.519
<v Speaker 3>are a way to generate a profile of you that

215
00:11:34.559 --> 00:11:35.320
<v Speaker 3>they sell.

216
00:11:35.200 --> 00:11:37.799
<v Speaker 1>And everything that you search for goes into that profile

217
00:11:38.200 --> 00:11:40.840
<v Speaker 1>and then can be put together to form a more

218
00:11:40.879 --> 00:11:42.559
<v Speaker 1>complete picture of you. Correct.

219
00:11:42.759 --> 00:11:45.840
<v Speaker 3>Correct, And now AI agents are even taking that further

220
00:11:45.960 --> 00:11:50.159
<v Speaker 3>with contextual information about a discussion or anything that you have.

221
00:11:50.639 --> 00:11:53.679
<v Speaker 3>And that's the same model being introduced where data is

222
00:11:53.799 --> 00:11:59.440
<v Speaker 3>extracted from our activity involving with this information, and they

223
00:11:59.480 --> 00:12:02.519
<v Speaker 3>make the money on information that we gleefully give them

224
00:12:02.519 --> 00:12:05.679
<v Speaker 3>for free. And what I want to try to do

225
00:12:05.759 --> 00:12:08.440
<v Speaker 3>is set up a cooperative that is owned by people

226
00:12:09.279 --> 00:12:13.480
<v Speaker 3>that we willingly provide that same data but to the cooperative.

227
00:12:13.759 --> 00:12:17.000
<v Speaker 1>And what kind of commie talk is that, Richard Rukma,

228
00:12:17.600 --> 00:12:18.759
<v Speaker 1>that's crazy talk.

229
00:12:19.360 --> 00:12:25.600
<v Speaker 3>Well, I don't know, gonna send me a check, Richard.

230
00:12:25.720 --> 00:12:28.440
<v Speaker 3>I'll bow to your memory of what a cooperative is

231
00:12:28.879 --> 00:12:32.039
<v Speaker 3>because it started in the thirties where people it was

232
00:12:32.080 --> 00:12:34.279
<v Speaker 3>a weaving shop and they all helped each other build

233
00:12:34.360 --> 00:12:36.919
<v Speaker 3>sure and do weaves and then sold the product. And

234
00:12:37.000 --> 00:12:39.840
<v Speaker 3>then and then that was in the Saskatchewan. It started

235
00:12:39.879 --> 00:12:43.080
<v Speaker 3>off as for power consumption, where a bunch of people

236
00:12:43.120 --> 00:12:45.320
<v Speaker 3>wanted power and no corporation was going to do it,

237
00:12:45.360 --> 00:12:47.919
<v Speaker 3>so they all got together and built themselves a power plant.

238
00:12:48.279 --> 00:12:50.840
<v Speaker 1>And we have food co ops all over the place

239
00:12:50.879 --> 00:12:52.159
<v Speaker 1>in the United States and Canada.

240
00:12:52.320 --> 00:12:54.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, no, I think, I really think it starts with

241
00:12:54.240 --> 00:12:59.600
<v Speaker 2>the farmers with consolidating cereal crops that you need to

242
00:12:59.600 --> 00:13:02.600
<v Speaker 2>be there best stored en mass and defended on mass

243
00:13:02.639 --> 00:13:05.840
<v Speaker 2>and packaged in consistent formats and sold as scale. And

244
00:13:06.000 --> 00:13:08.600
<v Speaker 2>no farmer can do all of that themselves. So you

245
00:13:08.639 --> 00:13:11.600
<v Speaker 2>put together these the wheat pools, right, the cooperative pools

246
00:13:12.120 --> 00:13:14.799
<v Speaker 2>to do the selling part to the point where they

247
00:13:15.159 --> 00:13:18.799
<v Speaker 2>That's how you end up with the markets that can

248
00:13:19.039 --> 00:13:20.919
<v Speaker 2>literally tell the farmer, hey, I can get this much

249
00:13:20.919 --> 00:13:22.559
<v Speaker 2>for your wheat for next season.

250
00:13:23.200 --> 00:13:27.840
<v Speaker 3>So I parallel that example exactly with everybody else, because

251
00:13:27.840 --> 00:13:31.440
<v Speaker 3>we're actually the farmers of our own words that we create,

252
00:13:32.000 --> 00:13:35.600
<v Speaker 3>and we contribute that into a cooperative which then aggregate.

253
00:13:35.840 --> 00:13:40.080
<v Speaker 3>Through aggregation, becomes extremely valuable. And we've seen, like they

254
00:13:40.080 --> 00:13:43.600
<v Speaker 3>think of all the social media platforms that leverage this model, Google,

255
00:13:44.879 --> 00:13:49.360
<v Speaker 3>Pinterest X or ex Twitter as you call it, next Twitter,

256
00:13:49.440 --> 00:13:51.720
<v Speaker 3>I mean blue Sky, I mean they all, all of them,

257
00:13:51.799 --> 00:13:54.759
<v Speaker 3>all of them rely on this business model. And all

258
00:13:54.799 --> 00:13:58.120
<v Speaker 3>I'm suggesting is that the data feed for this model

259
00:13:58.399 --> 00:14:01.799
<v Speaker 3>is suggested in the book, is for your shopping patterns

260
00:14:01.879 --> 00:14:05.840
<v Speaker 3>in physical retail locations or your local merchant. So if

261
00:14:05.840 --> 00:14:08.320
<v Speaker 3>you're going to if you want to support your local merchant,

262
00:14:08.840 --> 00:14:12.840
<v Speaker 3>you would engage with that local merchant using the technology

263
00:14:12.840 --> 00:14:16.679
<v Speaker 3>that I've outlined in the book, which is not passively collected.

264
00:14:16.840 --> 00:14:20.879
<v Speaker 3>It's actively collected from the customer to the merchant and

265
00:14:21.039 --> 00:14:23.600
<v Speaker 3>is held in this data repository, which I call the

266
00:14:23.639 --> 00:14:28.480
<v Speaker 3>snapching iq business model. And that snapching it business model

267
00:14:28.559 --> 00:14:30.679
<v Speaker 3>is if you contribute, you get paid for it when

268
00:14:30.720 --> 00:14:33.279
<v Speaker 3>there's money and revenue generated from your data.

269
00:14:33.399 --> 00:14:36.399
<v Speaker 1>So I'm thinking about this. I have a local grocery store.

270
00:14:37.159 --> 00:14:40.039
<v Speaker 1>I go to check out and I scan everything, so

271
00:14:40.120 --> 00:14:42.559
<v Speaker 1>there's the list of items that I bought, and then

272
00:14:42.600 --> 00:14:45.039
<v Speaker 1>I pay with my credit cards. So there's my identity.

273
00:14:45.240 --> 00:14:46.279
<v Speaker 1>What don't they already have?

274
00:14:46.519 --> 00:14:48.879
<v Speaker 2>Well, the credit card is not your identity.

275
00:14:48.919 --> 00:14:51.279
<v Speaker 3>In fact, the merchant has no identity from the credit

276
00:14:51.360 --> 00:14:53.679
<v Speaker 3>card at whatsoever, and that's protected by what we call

277
00:14:53.720 --> 00:14:56.679
<v Speaker 3>the bank Act. Okay, the only thing that will allow

278
00:14:56.759 --> 00:14:58.639
<v Speaker 3>you to see the basket which is which is what

279
00:14:58.639 --> 00:15:01.279
<v Speaker 3>you're talking about, the basket of at the checkout is

280
00:15:01.320 --> 00:15:02.120
<v Speaker 3>a loyalty card.

281
00:15:02.279 --> 00:15:04.679
<v Speaker 1>A loyalty card, of course, that's what they're for. That's

282
00:15:04.720 --> 00:15:05.279
<v Speaker 1>how they do it.

283
00:15:05.799 --> 00:15:08.799
<v Speaker 3>And the loyalty card is not for loyalty, it's for

284
00:15:09.279 --> 00:15:12.200
<v Speaker 3>accumulation of data that's associated with the customer.

285
00:15:12.840 --> 00:15:15.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, of course, and you get a pitily little discount

286
00:15:15.039 --> 00:15:16.960
<v Speaker 1>to make you think you thank you, you're getting some

287
00:15:17.000 --> 00:15:17.799
<v Speaker 1>benefit from it.

288
00:15:17.919 --> 00:15:20.600
<v Speaker 3>So I've been at this a while, and there's we

289
00:15:20.679 --> 00:15:23.320
<v Speaker 3>have this what they call a coalition program. The coalition

290
00:15:23.399 --> 00:15:26.679
<v Speaker 3>program that that is in Canada is called air Miles.

291
00:15:26.720 --> 00:15:28.200
<v Speaker 2>I think you guys have it too in the States.

292
00:15:28.879 --> 00:15:29.120
<v Speaker 1>Right.

293
00:15:30.159 --> 00:15:34.480
<v Speaker 3>So in air Miles, they had to stop giving loyalty

294
00:15:34.480 --> 00:15:37.840
<v Speaker 3>to gas stations. Do you know why why people were

295
00:15:37.879 --> 00:15:41.080
<v Speaker 3>pouring gas on the ground so that they would get

296
00:15:41.120 --> 00:15:43.440
<v Speaker 3>their next point Because they had to spend X number

297
00:15:43.480 --> 00:15:45.080
<v Speaker 3>of dollars to get their loyalty points.

298
00:15:45.799 --> 00:15:47.679
<v Speaker 2>Oh, so they fill up their tanks, but they hadn't

299
00:15:47.679 --> 00:15:49.840
<v Speaker 2>gotten gone quite far enough to get their next set

300
00:15:49.840 --> 00:15:52.279
<v Speaker 2>of points, right, So they'll just hump all the x

301
00:15:52.320 --> 00:15:52.840
<v Speaker 2>dice gas.

302
00:15:52.960 --> 00:15:54.679
<v Speaker 3>They poured it on the ground, like, oh, I'll just

303
00:15:54.720 --> 00:15:56.679
<v Speaker 3>pour thirty cents on the ground make sure I get

304
00:15:56.679 --> 00:15:59.080
<v Speaker 3>my next my next loyalty point.

305
00:15:59.200 --> 00:16:00.159
<v Speaker 1>That's outrageous.

306
00:16:00.200 --> 00:16:03.039
<v Speaker 3>And then what people didn't understand. What people didn't understand

307
00:16:03.200 --> 00:16:06.399
<v Speaker 3>is that for every point in the air Miles program,

308
00:16:06.759 --> 00:16:09.919
<v Speaker 3>it was worth a penny, and air Miles sold that

309
00:16:10.039 --> 00:16:14.080
<v Speaker 3>data worth about twenty bucks. So you know they were

310
00:16:14.080 --> 00:16:16.279
<v Speaker 3>giving away a penny but earning twenty.

311
00:16:16.159 --> 00:16:18.559
<v Speaker 2>And doing it by dropping a couple of bucks with

312
00:16:18.600 --> 00:16:20.039
<v Speaker 2>a gas on the ground in the process.

313
00:16:21.039 --> 00:16:24.639
<v Speaker 3>Yeah right, because you know they It's just crazy. It's crazy.

314
00:16:24.679 --> 00:16:24.879
<v Speaker 1>What the.

315
00:16:26.879 --> 00:16:30.320
<v Speaker 3>Calculation of loyalty points is not done because it's money.

316
00:16:30.679 --> 00:16:32.480
<v Speaker 3>It's because nobody can do it in their head and

317
00:16:32.519 --> 00:16:33.919
<v Speaker 3>understand how many points are worth.

318
00:16:34.120 --> 00:16:37.320
<v Speaker 1>All right, So back to this whole co op thing.

319
00:16:37.399 --> 00:16:41.679
<v Speaker 1>Are you suggesting that these existing companies that collect data

320
00:16:42.159 --> 00:16:44.799
<v Speaker 1>turn into co ops or are you suggesting that we create

321
00:16:44.960 --> 00:16:50.879
<v Speaker 1>new services and new institutions that adopt the co op model.

322
00:16:51.080 --> 00:16:56.039
<v Speaker 3>I think there's a great article I read by Simon Schneck.

323
00:16:56.120 --> 00:16:57.799
<v Speaker 2>I think is es. I don't know if I say

324
00:16:57.799 --> 00:16:58.559
<v Speaker 2>it's spelt it right.

325
00:16:58.720 --> 00:17:00.759
<v Speaker 3>He's a business leader, and he says the capitalism of

326
00:17:00.840 --> 00:17:04.279
<v Speaker 3>today is changed dramatically from the capitalism that we have

327
00:17:04.400 --> 00:17:07.039
<v Speaker 3>in the thirties. The capitalism we had in the thirties

328
00:17:07.160 --> 00:17:09.440
<v Speaker 3>was the benefit of the company to the people, was

329
00:17:09.440 --> 00:17:12.640
<v Speaker 3>the primary concern of the corporation. The capitalism we have

330
00:17:12.720 --> 00:17:16.839
<v Speaker 3>today is how much does the shareholders get? What is

331
00:17:16.880 --> 00:17:19.480
<v Speaker 3>the revenue potential for the shareholders? And if we have

332
00:17:19.559 --> 00:17:21.839
<v Speaker 3>to cut eighty percent of the staff. We'll do that

333
00:17:21.920 --> 00:17:23.880
<v Speaker 3>just to make sure we keep the shareholder value up

334
00:17:23.880 --> 00:17:27.640
<v Speaker 3>and forget about the customer. I'm just advocating for that

335
00:17:27.759 --> 00:17:32.519
<v Speaker 3>now that we as customers, if we empower ourselves, we

336
00:17:32.559 --> 00:17:36.680
<v Speaker 3>can make a change by cooperative what I call cooperative consumerism,

337
00:17:37.079 --> 00:17:41.480
<v Speaker 3>where we if we cooperate in our consumersm of products,

338
00:17:42.039 --> 00:17:45.599
<v Speaker 3>we can direct market forces to be in our favor.

339
00:17:45.720 --> 00:17:49.279
<v Speaker 1>But how can we do that and keep our existing institutions?

340
00:17:49.440 --> 00:17:50.279
<v Speaker 1>So how do we do it?

341
00:17:50.720 --> 00:17:54.880
<v Speaker 3>The one example I often cite is gas stations in Canada. Everybody,

342
00:17:54.960 --> 00:17:57.200
<v Speaker 3>if there's collusion at the gas stations, I'd like they

343
00:17:57.200 --> 00:17:59.519
<v Speaker 3>say there isn't. They They've done studies it isn't. But

344
00:17:59.599 --> 00:18:01.880
<v Speaker 3>when somebody goes up a penny, everybody goes up penny

345
00:18:01.920 --> 00:18:02.559
<v Speaker 3>at the same time.

346
00:18:03.200 --> 00:18:05.240
<v Speaker 2>Is it collusion? It's collusion. If they all got on

347
00:18:05.240 --> 00:18:06.920
<v Speaker 2>the phone say I'm going to raise my price a penny,

348
00:18:06.920 --> 00:18:08.759
<v Speaker 2>it's not collusion. If one of them raises the price

349
00:18:08.759 --> 00:18:10.359
<v Speaker 2>of penny and the rest of them see that and

350
00:18:10.400 --> 00:18:11.519
<v Speaker 2>then follow, that's true.

351
00:18:11.599 --> 00:18:15.799
<v Speaker 3>True, But market market forces say that that shouldn't happen.

352
00:18:16.440 --> 00:18:17.119
<v Speaker 3>They should.

353
00:18:18.559 --> 00:18:21.880
<v Speaker 2>Right Like this is Adam Smith's sort of fictional idea

354
00:18:22.079 --> 00:18:25.200
<v Speaker 2>that this had drive that down. You mean, the corollary

355
00:18:25.240 --> 00:18:27.640
<v Speaker 2>should be true. If one of them reduces by a penny,

356
00:18:27.640 --> 00:18:30.440
<v Speaker 2>the rest of them should all reduce because their sales

357
00:18:30.480 --> 00:18:31.079
<v Speaker 2>would dry up.

358
00:18:31.119 --> 00:18:33.759
<v Speaker 3>That that's true, and it does happen. That does happen.

359
00:18:34.000 --> 00:18:36.720
<v Speaker 3>But what happens is if you raise your price a

360
00:18:36.759 --> 00:18:39.119
<v Speaker 3>penny and everybody follows to raise the price of penny,

361
00:18:39.480 --> 00:18:42.200
<v Speaker 3>the consumer still has no choice when when somebody who

362
00:18:42.279 --> 00:18:44.880
<v Speaker 3>raises the price a penny should have less demand because

363
00:18:44.880 --> 00:18:47.559
<v Speaker 3>there's other demands. There's other suppliers that will have a

364
00:18:47.599 --> 00:18:50.279
<v Speaker 3>reduced price. Right, But if you collude to with each other,

365
00:18:50.319 --> 00:18:52.519
<v Speaker 3>and I'm using that word clude that, oh his price

366
00:18:52.519 --> 00:18:54.839
<v Speaker 3>went on, I'm going to take mine up. There is

367
00:18:54.920 --> 00:18:56.519
<v Speaker 3>no choice in the market as to wear to buy

368
00:18:56.519 --> 00:19:00.640
<v Speaker 3>gas because it's all the same price. So this cooperative

369
00:19:00.640 --> 00:19:04.799
<v Speaker 3>consumerism is let's all buy gas by company X and

370
00:19:04.960 --> 00:19:08.359
<v Speaker 3>exclude and exclude all the other ones, or just don't

371
00:19:08.400 --> 00:19:11.000
<v Speaker 3>buy from one of the gas stations forget it.

372
00:19:10.920 --> 00:19:11.480
<v Speaker 2>Just stop it.

373
00:19:11.599 --> 00:19:13.839
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, but that's their sales go down for the week.

374
00:19:13.960 --> 00:19:18.839
<v Speaker 1>But that's not always a choice that every consumer can make, right, true.

375
00:19:18.880 --> 00:19:22.960
<v Speaker 1>I mean, if I live in an inner city and

376
00:19:23.200 --> 00:19:29.000
<v Speaker 1>my market is right downstairs from my apartment, and somebody says, oh,

377
00:19:29.079 --> 00:19:30.759
<v Speaker 1>you know, to be a good CISZ and we're not

378
00:19:30.799 --> 00:19:32.480
<v Speaker 1>going to buy from this marketing. We're going to buy

379
00:19:32.519 --> 00:19:35.960
<v Speaker 1>from that market, which is, you know, ten minute walk away.

380
00:19:36.680 --> 00:19:39.759
<v Speaker 1>My lazy ass isn't walking ten minutes just to satisfy

381
00:19:39.880 --> 00:19:43.200
<v Speaker 1>some data sharing algorithm. Do you know what I'm saying.

382
00:19:43.240 --> 00:19:46.480
<v Speaker 1>I mean, it's very hard to convince consumers to change

383
00:19:46.519 --> 00:19:47.799
<v Speaker 1>their behavior.

384
00:19:47.839 --> 00:19:49.640
<v Speaker 3>I hear you. I mean if we look at clothing

385
00:19:50.359 --> 00:19:52.359
<v Speaker 3>and we buy, and we have two T shirts in

386
00:19:52.400 --> 00:19:54.000
<v Speaker 3>front of us, one's a fifteen dollars shirt and the

387
00:19:54.039 --> 00:19:55.720
<v Speaker 3>other one's a five dollars shirt, Yeah, which one is

388
00:19:55.720 --> 00:19:58.000
<v Speaker 3>the consumer going to buy? We are so as consumers

389
00:19:59.160 --> 00:20:03.000
<v Speaker 3>centric on the right that we are causing demand like

390
00:20:03.079 --> 00:20:06.240
<v Speaker 3>even in North America and the United States especially nowadays,

391
00:20:06.079 --> 00:20:08.519
<v Speaker 3>or buy go, buy American, but you can't. You can't

392
00:20:08.519 --> 00:20:11.960
<v Speaker 3>buy American because all the pieces of the supply chain

393
00:20:12.640 --> 00:20:15.799
<v Speaker 3>are outside of America, right right, So we as this

394
00:20:15.880 --> 00:20:20.759
<v Speaker 3>whole movement is understanding that in the old days, when

395
00:20:20.759 --> 00:20:23.039
<v Speaker 3>you had a general store and a butcher, and a

396
00:20:23.039 --> 00:20:28.440
<v Speaker 3>plumber and electrician, they all helped each other to make

397
00:20:28.440 --> 00:20:32.599
<v Speaker 3>it sure. Yeah, sure, right, So it was only at

398
00:20:32.680 --> 00:20:35.759
<v Speaker 3>the advent of a conglomerate like a huge store that

399
00:20:35.759 --> 00:20:37.119
<v Speaker 3>we all start with C. I don't know if I

400
00:20:37.119 --> 00:20:38.720
<v Speaker 3>can say it, just because I don't want to get

401
00:20:38.720 --> 00:20:41.400
<v Speaker 3>any kind of going. Well, there's a lot of deflamminationary.

402
00:20:42.200 --> 00:20:45.759
<v Speaker 3>But you know, we're fixated on the price, but we

403
00:20:45.839 --> 00:20:51.319
<v Speaker 3>don't understand revenue diversification. So now these companies are leveraging

404
00:20:51.440 --> 00:20:55.720
<v Speaker 3>us away from these models by saying, okay, our prices

405
00:20:55.759 --> 00:20:58.680
<v Speaker 3>are three four five percent above operating, but we'll make

406
00:20:58.720 --> 00:21:00.640
<v Speaker 3>our profit elsewhere. And that's on membership.

407
00:21:00.680 --> 00:21:03.640
<v Speaker 1>All right. Let's take a town. Let's just start small here.

408
00:21:03.839 --> 00:21:08.400
<v Speaker 1>Take a small town, maybe population twenty thousand, right, very

409
00:21:08.400 --> 00:21:11.960
<v Speaker 1>small town, and there's a whole bunch of local shops.

410
00:21:13.359 --> 00:21:16.119
<v Speaker 1>You know that everyone who lives in that town would

411
00:21:16.200 --> 00:21:20.519
<v Speaker 1>prefer to buy local. They would prefer to visit the

412
00:21:20.599 --> 00:21:23.440
<v Speaker 1>local coffee shop rather than go to Starbucks. They would

413
00:21:23.440 --> 00:21:27.079
<v Speaker 1>prefer to, you know, go to their local restaurants rather

414
00:21:27.119 --> 00:21:30.240
<v Speaker 1>than go to chain restaurants. And so you know, there's

415
00:21:30.279 --> 00:21:35.039
<v Speaker 1>an opportunity to do something. I see because you've already

416
00:21:35.119 --> 00:21:39.160
<v Speaker 1>got this sort of infrastructure in place. But if but

417
00:21:39.599 --> 00:21:42.160
<v Speaker 1>if by another token, you live in a big city

418
00:21:42.720 --> 00:21:45.400
<v Speaker 1>and you live where there's only big box stores and

419
00:21:45.440 --> 00:21:48.960
<v Speaker 1>there's only chains and all of these things, and you're

420
00:21:49.000 --> 00:21:52.359
<v Speaker 1>buying most of your stuff from Amazon. Anyway, you know,

421
00:21:52.720 --> 00:21:55.000
<v Speaker 1>how how does that change?

422
00:21:55.519 --> 00:21:59.160
<v Speaker 3>Well, I think I think the onus. I'm just proposing

423
00:21:59.160 --> 00:21:59.440
<v Speaker 3>that we.

424
00:21:59.480 --> 00:22:01.119
<v Speaker 2>Look upon ourselves to change.

425
00:22:01.319 --> 00:22:03.359
<v Speaker 3>Okay, Like we can't if we don't blame if we

426
00:22:03.440 --> 00:22:07.000
<v Speaker 3>blame the government from doing something wrong, that's a pointless argument.

427
00:22:07.039 --> 00:22:09.160
<v Speaker 3>You got to look at yourself and who you voted for.

428
00:22:09.279 --> 00:22:11.400
<v Speaker 1>You Well, there you go, right, Like good, point right.

429
00:22:11.640 --> 00:22:15.319
<v Speaker 3>So your dollars are your voting mechanism for businesses that

430
00:22:15.440 --> 00:22:19.359
<v Speaker 3>surround in your community and well, and governments are trailing indicators.

431
00:22:19.400 --> 00:22:21.559
<v Speaker 3>It's not just who you voted for, it's what you

432
00:22:21.720 --> 00:22:25.200
<v Speaker 3>told them you wanted in the process. You know, they're

433
00:22:25.200 --> 00:22:28.480
<v Speaker 3>supposed to be. It's a representative government. So it's up

434
00:22:28.519 --> 00:22:32.200
<v Speaker 3>to us to represent the ideas that we want to them,

435
00:22:32.240 --> 00:22:34.599
<v Speaker 3>hopefully to get manifest in some way.

436
00:22:34.720 --> 00:22:35.160
<v Speaker 1>Mm hmm.

437
00:22:35.839 --> 00:22:39.880
<v Speaker 2>But this, you know, the cooperative model banking is a

438
00:22:39.880 --> 00:22:42.039
<v Speaker 2>great example of that, because we do have cooperative banks

439
00:22:42.039 --> 00:22:44.720
<v Speaker 2>we call them credit union might and they try to

440
00:22:44.759 --> 00:22:49.000
<v Speaker 2>be more regional and deliver services specifically to their communities

441
00:22:49.039 --> 00:22:52.079
<v Speaker 2>and products so forth. They're still you know, regulated to

442
00:22:52.119 --> 00:22:54.319
<v Speaker 2>a degree, so they there's limits on what they can do,

443
00:22:55.039 --> 00:22:56.480
<v Speaker 2>But it's just a question of do you get as

444
00:22:56.559 --> 00:22:58.240
<v Speaker 2>much value from that? You know, the upside of the

445
00:22:58.279 --> 00:23:01.359
<v Speaker 2>larger cocommerate often is more bying powersore prices tend to

446
00:23:01.359 --> 00:23:06.039
<v Speaker 2>be lower, and larger diversity of product offering, whether you're

447
00:23:06.039 --> 00:23:07.319
<v Speaker 2>talking about banking or grocer.

448
00:23:08.279 --> 00:23:11.920
<v Speaker 3>So the only thing I'm trying to arrange is the net.

449
00:23:12.000 --> 00:23:14.920
<v Speaker 3>So if that's the thought of having a data cooperative

450
00:23:14.920 --> 00:23:17.720
<v Speaker 3>and we clumulate data, the question then becomes, and I

451
00:23:17.759 --> 00:23:20.160
<v Speaker 3>think you pointed out, Carls, how do we gather this data?

452
00:23:20.519 --> 00:23:21.759
<v Speaker 2>How do we get this data?

453
00:23:22.000 --> 00:23:24.519
<v Speaker 3>Because if you start a war against Google, you're going

454
00:23:24.599 --> 00:23:27.279
<v Speaker 3>to lose. Sure, you start a war against Microsoft, you're

455
00:23:27.319 --> 00:23:30.480
<v Speaker 3>going to lose, right right, So where is the source

456
00:23:30.519 --> 00:23:33.720
<v Speaker 3>of data that we can have that streams in for

457
00:23:33.759 --> 00:23:36.640
<v Speaker 3>this cooperative? And I'm proposing that we do it with

458
00:23:36.799 --> 00:23:41.279
<v Speaker 3>QR codes that consumers can scan either at the door

459
00:23:41.279 --> 00:23:44.440
<v Speaker 3>of the merchant or within the context of whatever that

460
00:23:44.519 --> 00:23:49.119
<v Speaker 3>QR code represents. And now it's it's an opt in process.

461
00:23:49.160 --> 00:23:52.319
<v Speaker 3>I'm not watching your WiFi, I'm not taking your bluetooth.

462
00:23:52.359 --> 00:23:57.160
<v Speaker 3>I'm not scanning, but I'm scanning a QR code that

463
00:23:57.200 --> 00:24:01.519
<v Speaker 3>this merchant is part of the customer ecosystem or the

464
00:24:01.559 --> 00:24:02.960
<v Speaker 3>snapching iq business system.

465
00:24:03.039 --> 00:24:07.000
<v Speaker 1>What is the benefit to the merchant to enroll in

466
00:24:07.079 --> 00:24:09.480
<v Speaker 1>a co op where they have to pay out for

467
00:24:09.640 --> 00:24:12.119
<v Speaker 1>data rather than just take it the way they are

468
00:24:12.119 --> 00:24:12.599
<v Speaker 1>doing now?

469
00:24:12.799 --> 00:24:16.599
<v Speaker 3>Participation? If I have a merchant that drives a loyalty

470
00:24:16.599 --> 00:24:21.000
<v Speaker 3>program and I ask for everybody's email address, I'm going

471
00:24:21.039 --> 00:24:23.680
<v Speaker 3>to get about three three to four percent participation in

472
00:24:23.680 --> 00:24:24.720
<v Speaker 3>the loyalty program.

473
00:24:24.759 --> 00:24:27.359
<v Speaker 1>But what if you give out cards though, loyalty cards?

474
00:24:27.519 --> 00:24:30.039
<v Speaker 3>No, but that's the loyalty card has an identity to

475
00:24:30.079 --> 00:24:32.279
<v Speaker 3>it that identifies you to that merchant.

476
00:24:32.440 --> 00:24:35.079
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, but everybody has them. I mean, it's what I'm saying.

477
00:24:35.279 --> 00:24:39.440
<v Speaker 1>So if all their shoppers have identity cards loyalty cards,

478
00:24:39.880 --> 00:24:42.200
<v Speaker 1>what is the benefit for them to move over to

479
00:24:42.279 --> 00:24:44.119
<v Speaker 1>a model where they actually have to pay for that

480
00:24:44.519 --> 00:24:45.799
<v Speaker 1>to the consumer.

481
00:24:45.440 --> 00:24:48.759
<v Speaker 3>A larger broader audience of customers. So if I not

482
00:24:48.759 --> 00:24:51.119
<v Speaker 3>everybody gets a loyalty card, yeah, and not everybody gets

483
00:24:51.119 --> 00:24:53.640
<v Speaker 3>a wealthy card too, But think about just the data.

484
00:24:54.160 --> 00:24:57.400
<v Speaker 3>If I take a loyalty card with Starbucks, I know

485
00:24:57.440 --> 00:25:00.000
<v Speaker 3>how many times I go visit Starbucks, but I don't.

486
00:25:00.000 --> 00:25:01.279
<v Speaker 3>I don't know how many times I went to the

487
00:25:01.359 --> 00:25:05.440
<v Speaker 3>luck to the that my profile doesn't at Starbucks doesn't

488
00:25:05.480 --> 00:25:08.799
<v Speaker 3>show that I like bread, So it's an incomplete profile

489
00:25:08.839 --> 00:25:09.559
<v Speaker 3>of the customer.

490
00:25:09.839 --> 00:25:15.240
<v Speaker 1>So I'm sorry, I just have these questions. Getting back

491
00:25:15.240 --> 00:25:18.720
<v Speaker 1>to the grocery store. You scan your loyalty card, you

492
00:25:18.759 --> 00:25:20.960
<v Speaker 1>scan your food. They know you like bread.

493
00:25:21.559 --> 00:25:24.519
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, that's true, but whose benefit is that? Is it

494
00:25:24.559 --> 00:25:26.440
<v Speaker 3>to the customer that they like bread or is it

495
00:25:26.480 --> 00:25:27.160
<v Speaker 3>to the merchant?

496
00:25:27.160 --> 00:25:31.279
<v Speaker 1>That definitely, it's definitely a merchant, and they reward you

497
00:25:31.319 --> 00:25:34.359
<v Speaker 1>by giving you discounts. That's how they reward you. And

498
00:25:34.400 --> 00:25:36.960
<v Speaker 1>I'm sure somebody did the math to say how much

499
00:25:37.079 --> 00:25:39.559
<v Speaker 1>do we have to give them so they keep using

500
00:25:39.599 --> 00:25:43.240
<v Speaker 1>the card? Right, So that's an economic measurement.

501
00:25:43.440 --> 00:25:45.920
<v Speaker 3>There's one thing here that you have to understand. Okay,

502
00:25:46.039 --> 00:25:48.759
<v Speaker 3>when you scan the QR code, the data doesn't go

503
00:25:48.839 --> 00:25:52.119
<v Speaker 3>to the merchant. It goes to the snapching iq business model.

504
00:25:53.359 --> 00:25:56.799
<v Speaker 3>So now if everybody that participates in the snapchain iq

505
00:25:56.960 --> 00:25:59.839
<v Speaker 3>business model, all that data streaming in from all the

506
00:26:00.119 --> 00:26:04.880
<v Speaker 3>QR codes goes to the centralized repository of the data

507
00:26:04.920 --> 00:26:10.000
<v Speaker 3>mart that represents that activity across all kinds of merchants,

508
00:26:11.160 --> 00:26:13.960
<v Speaker 3>and that value that data becomes as valuable as Google's

509
00:26:14.000 --> 00:26:20.240
<v Speaker 3>databases now okay, right, And because it's a cooperative, when

510
00:26:20.240 --> 00:26:23.440
<v Speaker 3>that data is sold and used, you get a cutback

511
00:26:23.480 --> 00:26:24.119
<v Speaker 3>for that data.

512
00:26:24.680 --> 00:26:29.720
<v Speaker 1>So instead of you know, shopright getting selling their data

513
00:26:29.839 --> 00:26:32.319
<v Speaker 1>as a global company or whatever, just the data that

514
00:26:32.359 --> 00:26:35.200
<v Speaker 1>they have about you and your you know, your your

515
00:26:35.240 --> 00:26:39.200
<v Speaker 1>bread choices, now they would become part of a bigger

516
00:26:39.240 --> 00:26:41.880
<v Speaker 1>co op that has to do with you know, the

517
00:26:41.960 --> 00:26:44.599
<v Speaker 1>kind of cars you buy and the kind of tires

518
00:26:44.640 --> 00:26:47.839
<v Speaker 1>that you get, and where you go get your lunches

519
00:26:47.839 --> 00:26:52.000
<v Speaker 1>and dinners and and all the all of the things. Right,

520
00:26:52.200 --> 00:26:54.279
<v Speaker 1>So the data sets more valuable.

521
00:26:53.920 --> 00:26:57.400
<v Speaker 3>And it's a much more complete. The data set's extremely

522
00:26:57.480 --> 00:27:00.799
<v Speaker 3>valuable because not only is it not fake, because you

523
00:27:00.880 --> 00:27:04.200
<v Speaker 3>can't fake going shopping at your local merchants, right, you

524
00:27:04.240 --> 00:27:07.680
<v Speaker 3>can't let hire a click team in India to actually

525
00:27:07.720 --> 00:27:12.880
<v Speaker 3>do that for you anymore, right, But the activity of

526
00:27:12.920 --> 00:27:15.720
<v Speaker 3>a customer in that environment is shared with all the

527
00:27:15.799 --> 00:27:19.240
<v Speaker 3>other customers in that environment to make the value. But

528
00:27:19.359 --> 00:27:24.039
<v Speaker 3>what's more interesting about this is that if the interface

529
00:27:24.079 --> 00:27:27.400
<v Speaker 3>of the snapching iq business model says I'm a concustomer

530
00:27:27.440 --> 00:27:31.200
<v Speaker 3>and I want to start looking for TV. What if

531
00:27:31.200 --> 00:27:33.160
<v Speaker 3>I just raise the flag that I'm looking for a

532
00:27:33.200 --> 00:27:36.839
<v Speaker 3>TV so that all the merchants can see that I'm

533
00:27:36.880 --> 00:27:41.640
<v Speaker 3>looking for a TV. And now we've got targeted advertising

534
00:27:41.759 --> 00:27:46.279
<v Speaker 3>on intent as opposed to reaction like activity.

535
00:27:46.079 --> 00:27:49.400
<v Speaker 1>Right right right, instead of getting ads for things that

536
00:27:49.440 --> 00:27:54.119
<v Speaker 1>you just bought, which is my favorite thing in the world.

537
00:27:54.400 --> 00:27:59.319
<v Speaker 1>So let's stay with the supermarket thing. So you're basically

538
00:27:59.359 --> 00:28:04.079
<v Speaker 1>saying to shop, right, Hey, give up this your your

539
00:28:04.119 --> 00:28:08.400
<v Speaker 1>own little world of you know, QR code or barcode

540
00:28:08.440 --> 00:28:12.319
<v Speaker 1>scanning thing for your own data set tap into this

541
00:28:12.480 --> 00:28:16.119
<v Speaker 1>bigger co op. You can still you know, just replace

542
00:28:16.200 --> 00:28:22.359
<v Speaker 1>the barcode, right, you can still offer people a discount,

543
00:28:22.720 --> 00:28:25.359
<v Speaker 1>you know, on their groceries or whatever the gas points

544
00:28:25.440 --> 00:28:28.920
<v Speaker 1>they do it stop and shop here in New England.

545
00:28:28.640 --> 00:28:35.319
<v Speaker 1>But then would they get money from the data that's

546
00:28:35.319 --> 00:28:38.880
<v Speaker 1>sold to I mean if you're if is everybody that's

547
00:28:38.920 --> 00:28:40.559
<v Speaker 1>part of the co op getting a check?

548
00:28:40.799 --> 00:28:44.599
<v Speaker 3>So I outlined one other party in the data model,

549
00:28:44.880 --> 00:28:49.440
<v Speaker 3>and that's called influencers. Right, I'm going to touch on influencers,

550
00:28:49.480 --> 00:28:51.319
<v Speaker 3>but I want to go back to your barcode. We

551
00:28:51.359 --> 00:28:53.839
<v Speaker 3>wouldn't replace the barcode because the barcode's tied into their

552
00:28:53.920 --> 00:28:56.440
<v Speaker 3>pos and that's already very in pricing and everything else,

553
00:28:56.440 --> 00:28:59.640
<v Speaker 3>so you can't. You're not going to displace that. But

554
00:28:59.680 --> 00:29:01.960
<v Speaker 3>I'll get give you an example of what some markets

555
00:29:01.960 --> 00:29:05.440
<v Speaker 3>did in Spain that caused a tremendous amount of traffic

556
00:29:06.319 --> 00:29:07.759
<v Speaker 3>to grocery stores in Spain.

557
00:29:08.039 --> 00:29:09.519
<v Speaker 2>Okay, are you familiar with this story?

558
00:29:09.799 --> 00:29:12.000
<v Speaker 1>No, but I can't wait to hear it. That's why

559
00:29:12.000 --> 00:29:12.599
<v Speaker 1>I'm smiling.

560
00:29:12.720 --> 00:29:15.400
<v Speaker 3>So somebody thought, you know what if you're single and

561
00:29:15.440 --> 00:29:18.480
<v Speaker 3>you want a date, go shop groceries on Thursday night

562
00:29:18.519 --> 00:29:21.359
<v Speaker 3>at Spain. Wow, and everybody was single that went out

563
00:29:21.400 --> 00:29:23.839
<v Speaker 3>and they shopped groceries. They went and bought groceries in

564
00:29:23.880 --> 00:29:27.400
<v Speaker 3>Spain on Thursday night. They showed pictures of these grocery

565
00:29:27.400 --> 00:29:31.279
<v Speaker 3>stores so jam packed with guys and girls running their

566
00:29:31.319 --> 00:29:34.960
<v Speaker 3>carts into each other. Oh, that's great as introductions to.

567
00:29:34.960 --> 00:29:37.559
<v Speaker 2>Do it, that's great, But.

568
00:29:37.599 --> 00:29:39.880
<v Speaker 3>That wasn't because the market thought it was a great

569
00:29:39.920 --> 00:29:42.920
<v Speaker 3>idea to do. That's because consumers came up and said,

570
00:29:42.960 --> 00:29:45.640
<v Speaker 3>you know, we're not having this virtualized stuff. We want

571
00:29:45.640 --> 00:29:49.000
<v Speaker 3>to have real face to face visits and through the

572
00:29:49.319 --> 00:29:51.240
<v Speaker 3>cooperation of the of all the customers.

573
00:29:51.240 --> 00:29:51.680
<v Speaker 2>They did that.

574
00:29:52.440 --> 00:29:57.240
<v Speaker 3>So that's interesting in this model, we are joining a

575
00:29:57.279 --> 00:30:00.319
<v Speaker 3>cooperative group. And why does the merchant want to do that? Well,

576
00:30:00.359 --> 00:30:04.200
<v Speaker 3>it increases participation because people want to scan those barcodes

577
00:30:04.200 --> 00:30:08.000
<v Speaker 3>because it represents pennies on the dollar for their activity.

578
00:30:08.160 --> 00:30:08.400
<v Speaker 1>Sure.

579
00:30:08.599 --> 00:30:10.880
<v Speaker 2>I mean the part I don't think you've emphasized here

580
00:30:11.039 --> 00:30:14.359
<v Speaker 2>is participating in that cooperative for one store means that

581
00:30:14.359 --> 00:30:16.599
<v Speaker 2>they also get access to the customers of all the

582
00:30:16.599 --> 00:30:17.240
<v Speaker 2>other stores.

583
00:30:17.680 --> 00:30:18.240
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

584
00:30:18.400 --> 00:30:21.200
<v Speaker 2>Now so yeah, yeah, you know the customer that signed

585
00:30:21.240 --> 00:30:23.240
<v Speaker 2>up in that got into the cooperative because they went

586
00:30:23.279 --> 00:30:26.200
<v Speaker 2>and got tires, now also is in the cooperative for grocery.

587
00:30:26.640 --> 00:30:29.200
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. And the important charact that is that there's no

588
00:30:29.279 --> 00:30:34.519
<v Speaker 3>outbound activity for marketing out of Snapchin. It's always inbound.

589
00:30:34.720 --> 00:30:36.640
<v Speaker 3>So in snapchain, there's an inbox.

590
00:30:36.920 --> 00:30:39.359
<v Speaker 1>Now, snapchain is something that you've mentioned a couple of

591
00:30:39.400 --> 00:30:41.240
<v Speaker 1>times without really defining it. What is that?

592
00:30:41.480 --> 00:30:44.480
<v Speaker 3>So in the book I talk about the snapchaing IQ,

593
00:30:44.599 --> 00:30:47.519
<v Speaker 3>which is the business model, and then I did an

594
00:30:47.640 --> 00:30:52.079
<v Speaker 3>MVP of the model in a product called Snapching. Oh okay,

595
00:30:52.119 --> 00:30:54.240
<v Speaker 3>And you can go to snapchin dot com and there's

596
00:30:54.519 --> 00:30:57.880
<v Speaker 3>it's a full site where merchants can enroll, generate QR

597
00:30:57.960 --> 00:30:58.640
<v Speaker 3>codes and hang.

598
00:30:58.519 --> 00:30:59.720
<v Speaker 2>Them up in their merchant locations.

599
00:30:59.759 --> 00:31:02.359
<v Speaker 3>Okay, right, as part of the See this is how

600
00:31:02.400 --> 00:31:06.000
<v Speaker 3>it would work in terms of one hundred percent privacy compliant,

601
00:31:06.440 --> 00:31:11.440
<v Speaker 3>ethical data management of customer data. Because merchants can participate

602
00:31:11.480 --> 00:31:16.440
<v Speaker 3>in this and get huge participation in the program. Merchants,

603
00:31:16.559 --> 00:31:19.279
<v Speaker 3>the customers enjoy it because they're actually getting benefit from

604
00:31:19.319 --> 00:31:22.960
<v Speaker 3>participating in the model. And I talk about how we're

605
00:31:23.000 --> 00:31:25.960
<v Speaker 3>going to build this so that it's a worldwide movement,

606
00:31:26.319 --> 00:31:31.240
<v Speaker 3>and it's like, you know, think big, but build small.

607
00:31:31.400 --> 00:31:34.519
<v Speaker 3>So I live in Kolona, BC, So why not just

608
00:31:34.559 --> 00:31:37.200
<v Speaker 3>have five or six merchants in COLONABC that are participating

609
00:31:37.200 --> 00:31:40.920
<v Speaker 3>in the model and see it grow. Calgary, Evans and Vancouver.

610
00:31:41.279 --> 00:31:43.960
<v Speaker 3>Those are all regional areas that we can see this

611
00:31:44.079 --> 00:31:47.440
<v Speaker 3>kind of movement grow. But all the data goes in. Now, remember,

612
00:31:47.759 --> 00:31:50.400
<v Speaker 3>no merchant sees personal identifying information.

613
00:31:50.519 --> 00:31:51.200
<v Speaker 2>They don't get that.

614
00:31:51.720 --> 00:31:54.680
<v Speaker 3>They only get statistical information. If they say, hey, I

615
00:31:54.680 --> 00:31:57.599
<v Speaker 3>want to do an ad for cauliflower, we can use

616
00:31:57.640 --> 00:32:01.880
<v Speaker 3>that definition against the database to see who's interest in cauliflower,

617
00:32:02.519 --> 00:32:05.319
<v Speaker 3>So they would know how many emails they're going to

618
00:32:05.359 --> 00:32:07.640
<v Speaker 3>send now I say emails, but it's actual really a

619
00:32:07.680 --> 00:32:10.559
<v Speaker 3>message to a consumer that wants cauliflower through the app

620
00:32:10.640 --> 00:32:14.119
<v Speaker 3>in the app, but that's charged to the merchant. So

621
00:32:14.240 --> 00:32:17.920
<v Speaker 3>therefore the efficiency of the marketing in the in the

622
00:32:18.000 --> 00:32:22.079
<v Speaker 3>whole business model is dramatically improved. So instead of saying

623
00:32:22.200 --> 00:32:25.680
<v Speaker 3>hundreds of million dollars are marketing that fails, merchants can

624
00:32:25.680 --> 00:32:28.359
<v Speaker 3>now pay exactly for how much that message is going

625
00:32:28.400 --> 00:32:29.400
<v Speaker 3>to return to them.

626
00:32:29.440 --> 00:32:34.000
<v Speaker 1>So, by signing up and sharing your data, you mentioned

627
00:32:34.680 --> 00:32:38.000
<v Speaker 1>you know, ethics and privacy and all of that stuff.

628
00:32:39.680 --> 00:32:43.240
<v Speaker 1>The data is obviously scrubbed, but you also said that

629
00:32:43.279 --> 00:32:48.000
<v Speaker 1>the data would be sold, and the sale of that

630
00:32:48.119 --> 00:32:55.119
<v Speaker 1>data would precipitate payments to the people that participate in

631
00:32:55.160 --> 00:32:59.119
<v Speaker 1>the co op. So in order to in order to

632
00:32:59.279 --> 00:33:02.519
<v Speaker 1>join this, you really have to sign the agreement. Read

633
00:33:02.559 --> 00:33:05.119
<v Speaker 1>it really closely that you are going to be sharing

634
00:33:05.160 --> 00:33:10.200
<v Speaker 1>your data. Big surprise, you're already doing it, but at

635
00:33:10.240 --> 00:33:12.759
<v Speaker 1>least you have a say in it.

636
00:33:13.640 --> 00:33:16.079
<v Speaker 3>Remember that the data that's being shared with the merchant

637
00:33:16.400 --> 00:33:20.400
<v Speaker 3>is statistical and aggregated information. It's not personal. They don't

638
00:33:20.400 --> 00:33:22.079
<v Speaker 3>get email editors, so they don't get phone number.

639
00:33:22.279 --> 00:33:22.519
<v Speaker 1>Right.

640
00:33:22.599 --> 00:33:26.599
<v Speaker 3>Because the model, the business model sits in between and

641
00:33:26.680 --> 00:33:30.920
<v Speaker 3>protects the customer from all the forces that want to

642
00:33:31.000 --> 00:33:32.079
<v Speaker 3>understand that information.

643
00:33:32.599 --> 00:33:35.319
<v Speaker 1>It's interesting. All right, let's take a little break. We'll

644
00:33:35.319 --> 00:33:38.039
<v Speaker 1>come right back with Richard Rukima. And you're listening to

645
00:33:38.160 --> 00:33:42.079
<v Speaker 1>dot net rocks and stay tuned. Did you know you

646
00:33:42.079 --> 00:33:46.000
<v Speaker 1>can easily migrate asp net web apps to Windows containers

647
00:33:46.039 --> 00:33:50.799
<v Speaker 1>on Aws. Use the app to Container tool to containerize

648
00:33:50.839 --> 00:33:55.400
<v Speaker 1>your iis websites and deploy to AWS managed container services

649
00:33:55.960 --> 00:33:59.599
<v Speaker 1>with or without Kubernetes. Find out more about app to

650
00:33:59.599 --> 00:34:04.200
<v Speaker 1>contain at aws, dot Amazon dot Com, slash, dot net,

651
00:34:04.440 --> 00:34:09.760
<v Speaker 1>slash Modernize. All right, we're back. It's dotting at rocks.

652
00:34:09.760 --> 00:34:13.079
<v Speaker 1>I'm Carl Franklin, that's Richard Campbell, hey, and that's Richard Rukman.

653
00:34:13.199 --> 00:34:16.920
<v Speaker 1>We're having a really interesting conversation that sort of borders

654
00:34:16.920 --> 00:34:22.079
<v Speaker 1>marketing and big data and and these economic forces. It's

655
00:34:22.159 --> 00:34:22.719
<v Speaker 1>I love.

656
00:34:22.559 --> 00:34:26.239
<v Speaker 3>These ethical data management, ethical data manage.

657
00:34:26.000 --> 00:34:29.199
<v Speaker 1>Ethical data management. Yeah, it's really cool. So my next

658
00:34:29.239 --> 00:34:33.079
<v Speaker 1>question is how can you know when we come up

659
00:34:33.119 --> 00:34:36.519
<v Speaker 1>with these great ideas. Sometimes we don't think, oh, I

660
00:34:36.599 --> 00:34:39.760
<v Speaker 1>forgot people are evil? How are they going to take

661
00:34:39.760 --> 00:34:44.440
<v Speaker 1>advantage of this system? So how do you see the

662
00:34:44.480 --> 00:34:47.320
<v Speaker 1>protections in place, and what are the places that somebody

663
00:34:47.320 --> 00:34:48.320
<v Speaker 1>could gain the system.

664
00:34:48.960 --> 00:34:51.920
<v Speaker 3>Well, we're already seeing it in some areas where the

665
00:34:52.039 --> 00:34:56.920
<v Speaker 3>QR codes are being like are being other QR codes

666
00:34:56.960 --> 00:34:59.559
<v Speaker 3>are being stuck on top of the QR codes and

667
00:34:59.599 --> 00:35:02.679
<v Speaker 3>then you don't see the scanning and where that takes you. Right,

668
00:35:03.599 --> 00:35:08.199
<v Speaker 3>The important difference in the technology of snapchain the business

669
00:35:08.239 --> 00:35:10.639
<v Speaker 3>model is that when you scan a QR code, it

670
00:35:10.639 --> 00:35:13.840
<v Speaker 3>doesn't take you anywhere because it generates a text message.

671
00:35:14.400 --> 00:35:17.199
<v Speaker 3>That text message is a one eight hundred number that

672
00:35:17.280 --> 00:35:20.119
<v Speaker 3>you can see clear as day that Okay, I'm sending

673
00:35:20.159 --> 00:35:24.280
<v Speaker 3>a text message to the service from my phone to

674
00:35:24.400 --> 00:35:27.599
<v Speaker 3>this number to be able to get the understanding of

675
00:35:27.639 --> 00:35:31.079
<v Speaker 3>what the benefit is behind the QR code, and I

676
00:35:31.079 --> 00:35:34.679
<v Speaker 3>think it's a two step, two factor method authentication. It's

677
00:35:34.719 --> 00:35:36.840
<v Speaker 3>just not a UR code that you're getting brought sent to.

678
00:35:37.679 --> 00:35:40.119
<v Speaker 3>You are asked to scan the code, take a look

679
00:35:40.119 --> 00:35:42.480
<v Speaker 3>at what it's there on your phone from a message,

680
00:35:42.480 --> 00:35:45.599
<v Speaker 3>and then pressent And that's the opt in process to

681
00:35:45.639 --> 00:35:49.960
<v Speaker 3>make this absolutely hundred percent privacy compliant. Because you are

682
00:35:50.000 --> 00:35:53.159
<v Speaker 3>the one that's activating the requiry.

683
00:35:52.960 --> 00:35:59.360
<v Speaker 1>You have MFA jeez, can somebody set up a phone

684
00:35:59.440 --> 00:36:04.840
<v Speaker 1>farm and you know, create hundreds of thousands of accounts

685
00:36:04.920 --> 00:36:08.239
<v Speaker 1>to to get money, to steal money out of the

686
00:36:08.960 --> 00:36:11.360
<v Speaker 1>out of the co op. I mean, are there other

687
00:36:11.840 --> 00:36:14.920
<v Speaker 1>potential pitfalls there? Well?

688
00:36:15.039 --> 00:36:17.800
<v Speaker 3>Never, there's there's I don't know who set up, but

689
00:36:17.840 --> 00:36:20.800
<v Speaker 3>somebody said, never underestimate the creativity of a criminal mind.

690
00:36:21.119 --> 00:36:21.519
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

691
00:36:22.079 --> 00:36:26.440
<v Speaker 3>Right, But remember the activity of a bot as opposed

692
00:36:26.480 --> 00:36:28.599
<v Speaker 3>to activity of a human is vastly different.

693
00:36:29.800 --> 00:36:30.000
<v Speaker 1>Right.

694
00:36:30.360 --> 00:36:34.039
<v Speaker 3>If you're in two different shops within ten seconds and

695
00:36:34.079 --> 00:36:38.960
<v Speaker 3>the shops are five klomters apart, yeah, somber. I. I

696
00:36:39.119 --> 00:36:42.440
<v Speaker 3>chose local merchants for a reason because I want to

697
00:36:42.480 --> 00:36:44.880
<v Speaker 3>support my local merchant in the business that they do.

698
00:36:45.280 --> 00:36:48.039
<v Speaker 3>Because ninety five percent of all employment is local merchants,

699
00:36:48.440 --> 00:36:49.159
<v Speaker 3>it's hard.

700
00:36:48.920 --> 00:36:52.519
<v Speaker 1>To argue against it, against buying local, right.

701
00:36:52.599 --> 00:36:55.840
<v Speaker 3>It's it's hard because we all have to support each other, right, right.

702
00:36:56.360 --> 00:37:01.119
<v Speaker 3>But the whole model of this was I didn't want

703
00:37:01.119 --> 00:37:05.079
<v Speaker 3>a mobile application. I didn't want to have a registration process.

704
00:37:05.519 --> 00:37:07.840
<v Speaker 3>I just wanted somebody to see a QR code and

705
00:37:07.880 --> 00:37:10.960
<v Speaker 3>think that's a good idea. I've heard about this snapchin

706
00:37:10.960 --> 00:37:13.400
<v Speaker 3>business model. I want to participate. All you got to

707
00:37:13.400 --> 00:37:15.880
<v Speaker 3>do is scan the QR code with your camera, it

708
00:37:16.000 --> 00:37:18.880
<v Speaker 3>generates the text message and you're registered. You're in the program.

709
00:37:19.000 --> 00:37:20.599
<v Speaker 3>I don't know your name and I don't really address,

710
00:37:20.599 --> 00:37:21.440
<v Speaker 3>but I have your phone number.

711
00:37:21.480 --> 00:37:23.599
<v Speaker 1>Oh, so it's all through Smster. There's no apps.

712
00:37:23.719 --> 00:37:26.199
<v Speaker 3>There's no app as of this right now, there's no app,

713
00:37:26.559 --> 00:37:28.119
<v Speaker 3>and I don't want there to be an app because

714
00:37:28.159 --> 00:37:30.760
<v Speaker 3>I don't want the friction of saying, oh, to participate,

715
00:37:30.760 --> 00:37:32.719
<v Speaker 3>you got to download this application and register.

716
00:37:32.920 --> 00:37:36.239
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Also, you know, if you're going to be on iOS,

717
00:37:36.280 --> 00:37:38.719
<v Speaker 1>which is probably where you want to be, you're going

718
00:37:38.760 --> 00:37:41.039
<v Speaker 1>to have to you know, share revenue with Apple and

719
00:37:41.039 --> 00:37:43.639
<v Speaker 1>all that stuff. Nobody wants to do that.

720
00:37:44.320 --> 00:37:46.760
<v Speaker 3>Well, but it makes sense to me not to have

721
00:37:46.800 --> 00:37:48.920
<v Speaker 3>the app because it's more of a friction to register.

722
00:37:49.599 --> 00:37:53.000
<v Speaker 3>Anybody today that sees a snapchain QR code can scan

723
00:37:53.119 --> 00:37:55.880
<v Speaker 3>the code and immediately be very participating in the model.

724
00:37:56.199 --> 00:37:57.440
<v Speaker 1>Right, Yeah, I get it.

725
00:37:58.119 --> 00:38:00.679
<v Speaker 2>You need a particular kind of customer for this, right

726
00:38:00.760 --> 00:38:04.320
<v Speaker 2>that this is someone who cares about how their data

727
00:38:04.360 --> 00:38:06.280
<v Speaker 2>is uses. Because the non trivial number of people who

728
00:38:06.440 --> 00:38:10.519
<v Speaker 2>just don't care, right, it's an overwhelming problem people talk

729
00:38:10.599 --> 00:38:12.159
<v Speaker 2>about all the time. Lots of will say, yeah, I

730
00:38:12.199 --> 00:38:15.239
<v Speaker 2>care about my privacy, but won't lift a finger to

731
00:38:15.280 --> 00:38:17.639
<v Speaker 2>actually do anything about it. I totally agree.

732
00:38:18.039 --> 00:38:21.159
<v Speaker 3>The only difference here that I think is different, and

733
00:38:21.199 --> 00:38:26.079
<v Speaker 3>it really talks to the millennials and even anybody under forty,

734
00:38:26.639 --> 00:38:29.480
<v Speaker 3>is the fact that if you participate, you're going to

735
00:38:29.559 --> 00:38:30.039
<v Speaker 3>get paid.

736
00:38:30.280 --> 00:38:32.079
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Yeah, I don't know how much of an incentive

737
00:38:32.119 --> 00:38:34.159
<v Speaker 2>that really is not going to be that much money.

738
00:38:34.239 --> 00:38:36.199
<v Speaker 2>I'm more con I think most people would be interested

739
00:38:36.199 --> 00:38:37.960
<v Speaker 2>in just my data not being abused.

740
00:38:38.000 --> 00:38:41.880
<v Speaker 3>Well, that's fair. There's a new model out called customer

741
00:38:41.920 --> 00:38:44.840
<v Speaker 3>Data platforms, and we're seeing everybody gather this data in

742
00:38:44.840 --> 00:38:49.760
<v Speaker 3>the customer data platforms. There is another company that I

743
00:38:50.039 --> 00:38:53.360
<v Speaker 3>just found, in fact, I saw it yesterday. It's called Rupt,

744
00:38:54.239 --> 00:38:58.400
<v Speaker 3>who does this thing called pods, which allows companies to

745
00:38:58.480 --> 00:39:02.559
<v Speaker 3>store their data, your personal data into a repository called

746
00:39:02.559 --> 00:39:02.960
<v Speaker 3>a pod.

747
00:39:03.159 --> 00:39:05.719
<v Speaker 2>You know this is this is tim Berner's Lee's solid technology.

748
00:39:05.760 --> 00:39:09.079
<v Speaker 3>You're guid that into that Internet that introduced internet, right,

749
00:39:09.119 --> 00:39:10.079
<v Speaker 3>that created the Internet.

750
00:39:09.920 --> 00:39:12.760
<v Speaker 2>That made the world Wide Web world.

751
00:39:13.880 --> 00:39:16.400
<v Speaker 3>The The problem that I see about that, though, is

752
00:39:16.440 --> 00:39:20.360
<v Speaker 3>your identity is still attached to the data in the pod.

753
00:39:20.480 --> 00:39:23.199
<v Speaker 3>So therefore it becomes an incentive to break into the

754
00:39:23.239 --> 00:39:26.119
<v Speaker 3>pod because once you break into the pod, you gather

755
00:39:26.599 --> 00:39:28.920
<v Speaker 3>all kinds of information about a person with identity.

756
00:39:29.079 --> 00:39:31.159
<v Speaker 2>That's not how Solid works. Solid they would have a

757
00:39:31.199 --> 00:39:33.760
<v Speaker 2>token to the data, which they may or may not

758
00:39:33.760 --> 00:39:35.960
<v Speaker 2>have rights to, like it's not actually in the pod,

759
00:39:36.039 --> 00:39:38.480
<v Speaker 2>just the token identifier. The whole point of Solid is

760
00:39:38.519 --> 00:39:41.199
<v Speaker 2>your data stays with you, and you only assigned tokens

761
00:39:41.199 --> 00:39:42.079
<v Speaker 2>out for utilization.

762
00:39:42.320 --> 00:39:44.199
<v Speaker 3>Well, like I said, I found it yesterday, and my

763
00:39:44.320 --> 00:39:47.239
<v Speaker 3>interterpretation of that was different where because I looked for

764
00:39:47.280 --> 00:39:50.920
<v Speaker 3>that specifically and they said the identity and the data

765
00:39:50.920 --> 00:39:54.679
<v Speaker 3>were stored and that in snapchain, I want to use

766
00:39:54.880 --> 00:39:59.239
<v Speaker 3>distributed identity and verifiable credentials to separate identity from the data.

767
00:40:00.000 --> 00:40:02.800
<v Speaker 3>So the data that's in the database doesn't have identity

768
00:40:02.960 --> 00:40:07.159
<v Speaker 3>right in Snapchain's model to eliminate that. To have a

769
00:40:07.159 --> 00:40:08.159
<v Speaker 3>take on but yeah.

770
00:40:08.000 --> 00:40:10.079
<v Speaker 2>You're only you only want to deal with the aggregates

771
00:40:10.119 --> 00:40:12.760
<v Speaker 2>where I mean Solid's real mission there and on include

772
00:40:12.760 --> 00:40:15.079
<v Speaker 2>a link to the Solid project was about how do

773
00:40:15.119 --> 00:40:17.960
<v Speaker 2>I say, how do I give a company my information

774
00:40:18.079 --> 00:40:20.880
<v Speaker 2>to deliver a product to me but not have them

775
00:40:20.960 --> 00:40:23.079
<v Speaker 2>be on their mainly list for forever. So it's literally

776
00:40:23.119 --> 00:40:25.639
<v Speaker 2>like for the duration of this transaction, you have my

777
00:40:25.760 --> 00:40:28.920
<v Speaker 2>address at the end of that transaction, you don't.

778
00:40:29.800 --> 00:40:34.199
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, And in that regard, snapchain is identical because the

779
00:40:34.280 --> 00:40:37.719
<v Speaker 3>customer is in charge of how much information they allow

780
00:40:38.000 --> 00:40:39.519
<v Speaker 3>the merchant to find them.

781
00:40:39.679 --> 00:40:43.000
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I would argue just realistically, like giving the

782
00:40:43.039 --> 00:40:45.079
<v Speaker 2>customer a sense of what their data is being used

783
00:40:45.079 --> 00:40:46.679
<v Speaker 2>for would be a hell of an improvement. But I

784
00:40:46.719 --> 00:40:48.760
<v Speaker 2>got one other angle for you, Richard to consider, which

785
00:40:48.800 --> 00:40:52.960
<v Speaker 2>is that personality that kind of customer is also the

786
00:40:53.000 --> 00:40:55.840
<v Speaker 2>one who just wants to remain hilt. Yeah, it's just

787
00:40:55.880 --> 00:40:59.920
<v Speaker 2>going to block their don't block their cookies, use VPN

788
00:41:00.440 --> 00:41:05.400
<v Speaker 2>like disguise themselves. That people that the active members in

789
00:41:05.440 --> 00:41:09.559
<v Speaker 2>this problem space, their primary goal seems to be just

790
00:41:09.760 --> 00:41:10.360
<v Speaker 2>leave me out.

791
00:41:10.519 --> 00:41:13.280
<v Speaker 1>You know, both of you guys are assuming that people

792
00:41:13.320 --> 00:41:15.880
<v Speaker 1>are a lot more intelligent than they actually are.

793
00:41:16.119 --> 00:41:19.239
<v Speaker 2>Now, the whole preamble of this, Carl, was that the

794
00:41:19.320 --> 00:41:22.519
<v Speaker 2>customer here is a small segment of folks. Most people

795
00:41:22.679 --> 00:41:23.280
<v Speaker 2>don't care.

796
00:41:23.519 --> 00:41:27.800
<v Speaker 1>Most people don't care. Yeah, yeah, you're right, okay.

797
00:41:28.119 --> 00:41:30.880
<v Speaker 3>And most people don't care about their data. Absolutely I

798
00:41:30.960 --> 00:41:33.400
<v Speaker 3>agree with it, because there's no value to them all.

799
00:41:33.440 --> 00:41:36.519
<v Speaker 3>The value for them to putching my terms into Google

800
00:41:36.760 --> 00:41:38.280
<v Speaker 3>is I get the Google product for free.

801
00:41:38.400 --> 00:41:41.199
<v Speaker 1>All right? So what is the elevator pitch to your

802
00:41:41.239 --> 00:41:43.639
<v Speaker 1>brother in law who you want to sign up and

803
00:41:43.719 --> 00:41:45.599
<v Speaker 1>scan the QR code? What are you going to tell them?

804
00:41:45.599 --> 00:41:46.679
<v Speaker 1>The benefit to them.

805
00:41:46.559 --> 00:41:49.719
<v Speaker 3>Is save your money, protect your data is the tagline.

806
00:41:49.760 --> 00:41:52.679
<v Speaker 1>Yeah that's not enough? How much? Well, how much am

807
00:41:52.719 --> 00:41:53.400
<v Speaker 1>I going to get back?

808
00:41:53.480 --> 00:41:55.800
<v Speaker 3>It all depends on all the various revenue streams that

809
00:41:55.840 --> 00:41:57.079
<v Speaker 3>can be dred from the.

810
00:41:57.159 --> 00:42:02.559
<v Speaker 1>Dam you lost me. I want to I want a

811
00:42:02.639 --> 00:42:09.159
<v Speaker 1>dollar amount, right, I'm an American consumer over here, and

812
00:42:09.239 --> 00:42:10.920
<v Speaker 1>I want a dollar amount.

813
00:42:11.400 --> 00:42:18.239
<v Speaker 3>One million as I stick my thinking and I know

814
00:42:19.840 --> 00:42:21.280
<v Speaker 3>I'm not I'm just not that small.

815
00:42:21.519 --> 00:42:21.960
<v Speaker 1>You're right.

816
00:42:22.079 --> 00:42:25.400
<v Speaker 3>I mean, this is a theoretical exercise. People got all

817
00:42:25.400 --> 00:42:28.480
<v Speaker 3>as communism, but it's you know, your fire department is

818
00:42:28.840 --> 00:42:29.880
<v Speaker 3>a socialist movement.

819
00:42:29.960 --> 00:42:31.400
<v Speaker 1>Well that was a department, all right.

820
00:42:31.960 --> 00:42:33.559
<v Speaker 3>I know, I know, I know it's a joke, but

821
00:42:33.599 --> 00:42:36.000
<v Speaker 3>it's true. But people will take this down because it's

822
00:42:36.000 --> 00:42:39.039
<v Speaker 3>like I'll never work. Okay, I'll never work, but what

823
00:42:39.119 --> 00:42:39.840
<v Speaker 3>a job?

824
00:42:39.920 --> 00:42:40.360
<v Speaker 1>Say? Once?

825
00:42:40.400 --> 00:42:42.360
<v Speaker 3>You know it takes the crazy people to change to

826
00:42:42.400 --> 00:42:43.239
<v Speaker 3>make crazy happen.

827
00:42:43.400 --> 00:42:45.239
<v Speaker 1>I think it's a great idea. I just think that

828
00:42:45.800 --> 00:42:49.239
<v Speaker 1>in order to get you know, cousin Joe to to

829
00:42:49.239 --> 00:42:53.480
<v Speaker 1>to to enlist or whatever, you have to give him

830
00:42:53.519 --> 00:42:55.039
<v Speaker 1>a hard benefit.

831
00:42:55.719 --> 00:42:59.760
<v Speaker 3>Right, Okay, so let's do let's take this one angle.

832
00:43:00.639 --> 00:43:01.960
<v Speaker 3>Let's go to the influencers.

833
00:43:02.000 --> 00:43:02.320
<v Speaker 1>All right.

834
00:43:02.360 --> 00:43:04.920
<v Speaker 3>I wrote a whole book on this about influencers, right,

835
00:43:05.679 --> 00:43:09.440
<v Speaker 3>and how do influencers monetize their audience? And right now

836
00:43:09.480 --> 00:43:12.360
<v Speaker 3>they do it with advertising and branding, which is what

837
00:43:12.440 --> 00:43:15.679
<v Speaker 3>I call a negative feedback loop. But if I am,

838
00:43:16.480 --> 00:43:19.800
<v Speaker 3>and I'm particularly interested in your guys product your perspective,

839
00:43:19.800 --> 00:43:23.719
<v Speaker 3>because you guys are both influencers. Right, So if you

840
00:43:23.880 --> 00:43:26.679
<v Speaker 3>say product X is the greatest product I know of,

841
00:43:26.800 --> 00:43:29.320
<v Speaker 3>go get it. But while you're shopping and picking it

842
00:43:29.400 --> 00:43:32.079
<v Speaker 3>up at the local merchant, like somebody like your bars

843
00:43:32.119 --> 00:43:33.840
<v Speaker 3>and new kid like, how many people do you drive

844
00:43:33.920 --> 00:43:35.599
<v Speaker 3>to your your your gigs?

845
00:43:35.800 --> 00:43:36.440
<v Speaker 2>Carl do?

846
00:43:36.679 --> 00:43:37.960
<v Speaker 1>How many people do I drive? Oh?

847
00:43:38.719 --> 00:43:40.719
<v Speaker 2>You're driving people to I know what you mean?

848
00:43:40.840 --> 00:43:41.039
<v Speaker 1>Yeah?

849
00:43:41.360 --> 00:43:43.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean you're driving traffic to that company.

850
00:43:43.920 --> 00:43:46.800
<v Speaker 1>So if you're advertising to drive people to the gigs.

851
00:43:46.880 --> 00:43:49.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, right, So this is called outcome fees.

852
00:43:49.400 --> 00:43:49.559
<v Speaker 1>Right.

853
00:43:49.960 --> 00:43:52.239
<v Speaker 3>So if I stuck a QR code on your stage

854
00:43:52.239 --> 00:43:54.320
<v Speaker 3>and people came up and scanned it to say, this

855
00:43:54.360 --> 00:43:58.239
<v Speaker 3>is for the benefit of Carl. Now the merchant understands

856
00:43:58.320 --> 00:44:01.000
<v Speaker 3>what Carl's activity was and how how much influence you

857
00:44:01.079 --> 00:44:03.039
<v Speaker 3>had to drive customers into activity.

858
00:44:03.079 --> 00:44:05.159
<v Speaker 1>Right, But what's the benefit to them? Right?

859
00:44:05.280 --> 00:44:07.159
<v Speaker 3>The benefit to them is they have got a customer

860
00:44:07.199 --> 00:44:09.519
<v Speaker 3>in their store. They got a customer in the bar.

861
00:44:09.880 --> 00:44:13.440
<v Speaker 1>I'm talking about somebody who I'm talking about, somebody who

862
00:44:13.519 --> 00:44:16.440
<v Speaker 1>comes up and is at one of my gigs. Incentive

863
00:44:16.480 --> 00:44:20.360
<v Speaker 1>to scan the QR code can't just be because it

864
00:44:20.400 --> 00:44:21.400
<v Speaker 1>will benefit Carl.

865
00:44:21.639 --> 00:44:24.360
<v Speaker 3>Sure it will. They love you, Yeah, but they'd rather

866
00:44:24.679 --> 00:44:25.639
<v Speaker 3>daily to go see you.

867
00:44:26.239 --> 00:44:28.320
<v Speaker 1>They'd rather take out a ten dollars bill and throw

868
00:44:28.320 --> 00:44:29.239
<v Speaker 1>out my guitar case.

869
00:44:29.639 --> 00:44:31.480
<v Speaker 3>Well, that may be true, just easier what.

870
00:44:31.480 --> 00:44:34.239
<v Speaker 1>A q QR code. I don't even know what that does,

871
00:44:34.320 --> 00:44:37.079
<v Speaker 1>onlygo are you gonna send me some virus something?

872
00:44:37.159 --> 00:44:37.840
<v Speaker 3>That may be true.

873
00:44:37.920 --> 00:44:39.079
<v Speaker 2>This is the idea.

874
00:44:39.280 --> 00:44:42.000
<v Speaker 3>If they go to that bar continuously after your shoal

875
00:44:42.960 --> 00:44:45.079
<v Speaker 3>and they see Carl's QR code and they scan it

876
00:44:45.079 --> 00:44:48.639
<v Speaker 3>every time, they're contributing to your influence because it's your

877
00:44:48.679 --> 00:44:50.880
<v Speaker 3>influence that got them to go to that merchant location.

878
00:44:51.159 --> 00:44:54.320
<v Speaker 3>Yeah okay, And it's a way to track influence without

879
00:44:54.360 --> 00:44:56.719
<v Speaker 3>taking advertising or branding dollars.

880
00:44:56.400 --> 00:44:58.800
<v Speaker 1>As long as you can give them something in return, right,

881
00:44:58.880 --> 00:45:02.679
<v Speaker 1>I mean, yeah, a CD, a free MP three file,

882
00:45:02.840 --> 00:45:04.119
<v Speaker 1>something like that. I don't know.

883
00:45:04.239 --> 00:45:06.639
<v Speaker 3>And they say like that, when you scan a QR code,

884
00:45:06.679 --> 00:45:09.119
<v Speaker 3>there has to be some value to the customer.

885
00:45:09.239 --> 00:45:11.679
<v Speaker 1>Yeah for scanning, scan the QR code and we'll send

886
00:45:11.719 --> 00:45:14.800
<v Speaker 1>you links to all of our music. That kind of stuff. Sure.

887
00:45:14.960 --> 00:45:15.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

888
00:45:16.079 --> 00:45:18.440
<v Speaker 1>Can I just talk about influencers for a while, because

889
00:45:18.559 --> 00:45:22.039
<v Speaker 1>Richard and I lived through the golden age of podcasting

890
00:45:22.199 --> 00:45:25.719
<v Speaker 1>and maybe some people would argue that it's happening now,

891
00:45:26.559 --> 00:45:29.320
<v Speaker 1>but no, I don't think so, at least for us.

892
00:45:29.519 --> 00:45:33.440
<v Speaker 1>We were literally one of the first podcasts ever and

893
00:45:33.559 --> 00:45:37.320
<v Speaker 1>certainly the longest monetized podcast and when there was no competition,

894
00:45:37.440 --> 00:45:41.639
<v Speaker 1>life was really good advertising wise, and then you know,

895
00:45:41.840 --> 00:45:44.920
<v Speaker 1>it's sort of just dwindled down, and now it's I mean,

896
00:45:44.920 --> 00:45:47.000
<v Speaker 1>we barely make enough. I don't mind saying this. We

897
00:45:47.079 --> 00:45:50.119
<v Speaker 1>barely make enough to pay the editor, right, I mean

898
00:45:50.159 --> 00:45:52.719
<v Speaker 1>we don't. We're not really making money here. We do

899
00:45:52.800 --> 00:45:56.199
<v Speaker 1>this because we love to do it. Furthermore, we're we're

900
00:45:56.239 --> 00:45:59.159
<v Speaker 1>not pushing products that we don't believe in in our ads.

901
00:46:00.280 --> 00:46:03.760
<v Speaker 1>Uh Okay, I can't say that we're not We're not

902
00:46:03.840 --> 00:46:06.039
<v Speaker 1>doing that. I can say that, but we also have

903
00:46:06.199 --> 00:46:10.159
<v Speaker 1>been on a platform that requires us to put ads in.

904
00:46:10.440 --> 00:46:13.000
<v Speaker 1>If you probably heard the show later, you've heard those.

905
00:46:14.079 --> 00:46:17.639
<v Speaker 1>But what I'm saying is, you know, we don't do

906
00:46:17.760 --> 00:46:22.440
<v Speaker 1>the show so that we can make ad revenue, you know,

907
00:46:22.559 --> 00:46:25.280
<v Speaker 1>to line our pockets and make a lot of money.

908
00:46:25.480 --> 00:46:30.000
<v Speaker 1>Like and I think that as I see celebrities now,

909
00:46:30.360 --> 00:46:35.519
<v Speaker 1>you know, aging into more infomercial roles and you know,

910
00:46:35.760 --> 00:46:39.280
<v Speaker 1>trying to push products and stuff like that, it's just

911
00:46:39.480 --> 00:46:40.239
<v Speaker 1>kind of sad.

912
00:46:40.559 --> 00:46:43.920
<v Speaker 2>You know, well, you missed the best influencer revenue generator

913
00:46:43.960 --> 00:46:51.000
<v Speaker 2>them all. Scam coins. Okay, educate me exactly what you

914
00:46:51.039 --> 00:46:53.199
<v Speaker 2>think it is. You create a crypto coin that you

915
00:46:53.280 --> 00:46:55.400
<v Speaker 2>pump up with hypes that everybody buys in, and then

916
00:46:55.440 --> 00:46:58.119
<v Speaker 2>you sell all the ords before it dumps. Yes, it's

917
00:46:58.119 --> 00:47:02.280
<v Speaker 2>a classic pump and dump. Its multi level marketing, right. Yeah,

918
00:47:02.320 --> 00:47:04.000
<v Speaker 2>you tell two friends, and you tell two friends in

919
00:47:04.039 --> 00:47:04.920
<v Speaker 2>the first place, I think.

920
00:47:04.880 --> 00:47:07.119
<v Speaker 1>At the top end of the of the scale, like

921
00:47:07.159 --> 00:47:11.599
<v Speaker 1>the people who have you know, YouTube shows that are

922
00:47:11.840 --> 00:47:14.679
<v Speaker 1>have you know, bazillions of views and they sell a lot.

923
00:47:14.760 --> 00:47:17.679
<v Speaker 1>They get a lot of advertising revenue from YouTube typically

924
00:47:17.760 --> 00:47:22.360
<v Speaker 1>they're like into shock value. Then you know they're they're

925
00:47:22.400 --> 00:47:26.679
<v Speaker 1>they're saying outrageous things, they're doing outrageous things, and it's

926
00:47:26.719 --> 00:47:31.079
<v Speaker 1>not at all beneficial to humanity, not at all. It's

927
00:47:31.119 --> 00:47:36.119
<v Speaker 1>not even beneficial to the social good. It's beneficial to

928
00:47:36.280 --> 00:47:39.639
<v Speaker 1>them and the people watch it because they slow down

929
00:47:39.679 --> 00:47:41.480
<v Speaker 1>in an accident for the same reason. Do you know

930
00:47:41.519 --> 00:47:41.960
<v Speaker 1>what I mean?

931
00:47:42.119 --> 00:47:44.239
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I totally get it.

932
00:47:44.280 --> 00:47:45.800
<v Speaker 1>But and it's really freaking sad.

933
00:47:46.639 --> 00:47:47.239
<v Speaker 2>And it is.

934
00:47:47.159 --> 00:47:49.239
<v Speaker 3>Sad, which is why I want to do something about it.

935
00:47:49.840 --> 00:47:51.079
<v Speaker 3>I want to do something.

936
00:47:50.760 --> 00:47:53.320
<v Speaker 1>Waves with this stuff so you can't find the really

937
00:47:53.360 --> 00:47:55.199
<v Speaker 1>good stuff when you go looking for it.

938
00:47:55.880 --> 00:47:58.239
<v Speaker 3>I want to be able to form people into communities

939
00:47:58.280 --> 00:48:02.000
<v Speaker 3>that benefit from each other. Yeah, not just some person

940
00:48:02.039 --> 00:48:04.239
<v Speaker 3>that's you know, screaming at their houses on fire and

941
00:48:04.599 --> 00:48:08.760
<v Speaker 3>whaling because her ten million dollar house. Can she's suddenly

942
00:48:08.800 --> 00:48:11.320
<v Speaker 3>lost her ten million house, which I feel for sure great,

943
00:48:11.360 --> 00:48:14.239
<v Speaker 3>like anybody you lose any house, it's bad. But put

944
00:48:14.239 --> 00:48:17.719
<v Speaker 3>her on social media and like, it's sad, it's sad

945
00:48:17.760 --> 00:48:20.800
<v Speaker 3>that we have to pay attention to this without and

946
00:48:21.239 --> 00:48:25.440
<v Speaker 3>they contribute. They get so much from that that endeavor,

947
00:48:25.679 --> 00:48:29.960
<v Speaker 3>Like any influencer will they get addicted to that, right.

948
00:48:30.039 --> 00:48:33.280
<v Speaker 1>Did you read the book Influencer? And I don't remember

949
00:48:33.320 --> 00:48:36.400
<v Speaker 1>who wrote it, but I read it twenty years ago.

950
00:48:36.960 --> 00:48:39.000
<v Speaker 1>It was actually Eileen Crane who sent it to us

951
00:48:39.119 --> 00:48:41.960
<v Speaker 1>Richard as regional directors back in the day. Yeah, And

952
00:48:42.000 --> 00:48:44.480
<v Speaker 1>it was stories of people who made a difference. And

953
00:48:44.559 --> 00:48:47.800
<v Speaker 1>it wasn't that they had economic success making a difference,

954
00:48:47.840 --> 00:48:51.480
<v Speaker 1>but they were really influential and changed the world. And

955
00:48:51.559 --> 00:48:53.400
<v Speaker 1>believe it or not, one of them was Jimmy Carter.

956
00:48:54.559 --> 00:48:56.639
<v Speaker 1>And you probably heard if you've been watching the news

957
00:48:56.679 --> 00:48:59.199
<v Speaker 1>and the funeral and people doing speeches, you've probably heard

958
00:48:59.239 --> 00:49:03.039
<v Speaker 1>about what he did with guinea worm, which was a

959
00:49:03.079 --> 00:49:07.599
<v Speaker 1>disease that was caused by people, mostly in Africa, going

960
00:49:07.639 --> 00:49:11.480
<v Speaker 1>and getting water from a pond which had these guinea

961
00:49:11.519 --> 00:49:14.480
<v Speaker 1>worm larvae in it and then either drinking it or

962
00:49:14.679 --> 00:49:18.119
<v Speaker 1>bathing in it or putting it on wounds or whatever.

963
00:49:19.039 --> 00:49:22.320
<v Speaker 1>And it was perpetuating this guinea worm. And he basically

964
00:49:22.360 --> 00:49:25.559
<v Speaker 1>taught them, you know, he takes some pantyhose and strain

965
00:49:25.679 --> 00:49:28.599
<v Speaker 1>the water through it and then you can drink it

966
00:49:28.679 --> 00:49:30.639
<v Speaker 1>and then you can do what you want with it.

967
00:49:31.440 --> 00:49:35.320
<v Speaker 1>But guinea worm tunnels itself out through your skin and

968
00:49:35.400 --> 00:49:38.559
<v Speaker 1>it's absolutely horrible and painful. And what people would do

969
00:49:39.199 --> 00:49:41.679
<v Speaker 1>is they would have these outbreaks and then they would

970
00:49:41.719 --> 00:49:44.039
<v Speaker 1>go to the pond and then they would you know,

971
00:49:44.119 --> 00:49:47.639
<v Speaker 1>cool it off with the water, thus adding more guinea

972
00:49:47.679 --> 00:49:51.559
<v Speaker 1>worm larvae to the water and perpetuating the cycle. And

973
00:49:51.599 --> 00:49:55.119
<v Speaker 1>he basically saw this and just started an education campaign

974
00:49:55.559 --> 00:50:00.920
<v Speaker 1>and he eradicated guinea worm. He did. Wow, Jimmy Carter. Yeah,

975
00:50:00.960 --> 00:50:03.159
<v Speaker 1>so the next time you, you know, you think about

976
00:50:03.280 --> 00:50:06.400
<v Speaker 1>having to you know, stay in line and every other

977
00:50:06.480 --> 00:50:09.760
<v Speaker 1>day in the gas line in the seventies, Yeah, that sucked.

978
00:50:10.079 --> 00:50:12.639
<v Speaker 1>And not sure what he could have done about it,

979
00:50:12.760 --> 00:50:15.360
<v Speaker 1>but maybe he could have. But but he did a

980
00:50:15.360 --> 00:50:18.280
<v Speaker 1>lot of stuff like he was a true influencer in

981
00:50:18.320 --> 00:50:22.280
<v Speaker 1>the very biggest sense of the word. So I appreciate

982
00:50:22.320 --> 00:50:25.800
<v Speaker 1>the lofty goals of your of your endeavor here, Richard.

983
00:50:26.840 --> 00:50:31.079
<v Speaker 1>I just I want to know how you know you

984
00:50:31.159 --> 00:50:37.719
<v Speaker 1>can you can get it through the veil of selfishness

985
00:50:37.800 --> 00:50:41.559
<v Speaker 1>that the American consumer has wrapped themselves in. Yeah.

986
00:50:41.679 --> 00:50:45.880
<v Speaker 3>I totally agree. I am an idealistic person and I

987
00:50:45.880 --> 00:50:48.719
<v Speaker 3>think I try to think out of the box. Yeah,

988
00:50:48.760 --> 00:50:51.800
<v Speaker 3>So I do know that today it's not working. It

989
00:50:51.840 --> 00:50:54.159
<v Speaker 3>doesn't work for anybody except for the corporate giants and

990
00:50:54.199 --> 00:50:56.000
<v Speaker 3>the tech giants. You know, they take our data and

991
00:50:56.039 --> 00:50:57.440
<v Speaker 3>they use it and they do whatever they want to

992
00:50:57.440 --> 00:50:57.760
<v Speaker 3>do with it.

993
00:50:57.880 --> 00:50:58.079
<v Speaker 1>Yep.

994
00:50:58.320 --> 00:51:01.239
<v Speaker 3>And we have to have more quality in terms of

995
00:51:01.280 --> 00:51:04.800
<v Speaker 3>that revenue generation, I agree, in our society or we're

996
00:51:04.840 --> 00:51:09.599
<v Speaker 3>gonna you know, we're gonna the feudal lords of medieval

997
00:51:09.639 --> 00:51:13.159
<v Speaker 3>times died because the pitchworks came out. And there's somebody

998
00:51:13.199 --> 00:51:15.519
<v Speaker 3>that talks about the pitch When the pitchforks come out, yep,

999
00:51:15.559 --> 00:51:17.800
<v Speaker 3>you know, we're all going to be in trouble. And

1000
00:51:17.920 --> 00:51:20.239
<v Speaker 3>trust me that pitchforks are coming right.

1001
00:51:20.800 --> 00:51:22.840
<v Speaker 1>By the way they have come out.

1002
00:51:23.519 --> 00:51:27.679
<v Speaker 2>They have literally Hey, before we wrap up to I

1003
00:51:27.719 --> 00:51:31.559
<v Speaker 2>want to d d besmirched pooral Jimmy Carter because he

1004
00:51:31.639 --> 00:51:33.960
<v Speaker 2>wasn't president ntil nineteen seventy seven and the oil embargo

1005
00:51:34.039 --> 00:51:37.960
<v Speaker 2>was nineteen seventy three. That was Nixon and then Ford. Yeah.

1006
00:51:38.119 --> 00:51:41.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, like most presidents, they they take the blame for

1007
00:51:41.039 --> 00:51:45.039
<v Speaker 1>what happened before they took office. Yeah, yeah, too bad.

1008
00:51:45.199 --> 00:51:45.880
<v Speaker 1>It's too bad.

1009
00:51:46.000 --> 00:51:48.119
<v Speaker 3>Well, I really appreciate you guys taking on the show.

1010
00:51:48.159 --> 00:51:51.480
<v Speaker 3>It's not quite a technical shot. I was going for

1011
00:51:51.519 --> 00:51:52.880
<v Speaker 3>the more ethical data management.

1012
00:51:52.920 --> 00:51:55.480
<v Speaker 2>It's definitely but there's definitely a technology here in a

1013
00:51:55.599 --> 00:51:57.920
<v Speaker 2>data privacy issue here, Like these are all topics on

1014
00:51:57.960 --> 00:52:00.199
<v Speaker 2>the show, absolutely, and you are trying to you know,

1015
00:52:00.199 --> 00:52:01.880
<v Speaker 2>we've got a problem with the way data is being

1016
00:52:02.039 --> 00:52:04.559
<v Speaker 2>you know, this all really started because we wouldn't pay

1017
00:52:04.599 --> 00:52:06.679
<v Speaker 2>for stuff on the internet the first place, right, And

1018
00:52:07.440 --> 00:52:10.400
<v Speaker 2>so they came, they came up with strategy. They they

1019
00:52:10.400 --> 00:52:14.440
<v Speaker 2>eventually discovered the strategy, Hey, your telemetry, your digital effluent

1020
00:52:14.559 --> 00:52:19.519
<v Speaker 2>is valuable. So yeah, what if we never did charge

1021
00:52:19.599 --> 00:52:22.639
<v Speaker 2>for you for this product, so you'll just keep using it? Right,

1022
00:52:22.719 --> 00:52:24.119
<v Speaker 2>Like there was a time when they wanted you to

1023
00:52:24.159 --> 00:52:26.199
<v Speaker 2>pay for search, just people wouldn't pay for search.

1024
00:52:26.960 --> 00:52:30.000
<v Speaker 1>And we have a phrase that we always say, which is, hey,

1025
00:52:30.039 --> 00:52:33.079
<v Speaker 1>if the product's free, you are the product product.

1026
00:52:33.159 --> 00:52:36.280
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, so this is my little attempt to kind of

1027
00:52:36.280 --> 00:52:37.320
<v Speaker 3>flip the tables on that.

1028
00:52:37.480 --> 00:52:39.639
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's great and say, you know.

1029
00:52:39.840 --> 00:52:43.039
<v Speaker 3>We we can do it together, right, We can and

1030
00:52:43.159 --> 00:52:47.440
<v Speaker 3>certainly can take the customer perspective on capitalism, not the

1031
00:52:47.480 --> 00:52:51.880
<v Speaker 3>merchant's perspective. And we're here to help the customer get

1032
00:52:51.920 --> 00:52:58.119
<v Speaker 3>a better experience, not the shareholders, which is the alumni ILLUMINII.

1033
00:52:58.960 --> 00:52:59.320
<v Speaker 2>Thank you.

1034
00:53:00.880 --> 00:53:02.719
<v Speaker 3>Of where the pitchworks are aimed.

1035
00:53:02.599 --> 00:53:04.559
<v Speaker 1>Right well, and it also in the end helps the

1036
00:53:04.599 --> 00:53:05.920
<v Speaker 1>merchants too, so.

1037
00:53:06.119 --> 00:53:09.360
<v Speaker 3>It does it you know that revenue is diversified across

1038
00:53:09.400 --> 00:53:12.800
<v Speaker 3>a whole wide range of merchants, each providing a service

1039
00:53:12.840 --> 00:53:15.079
<v Speaker 3>that is local to your environment, near your community.

1040
00:53:15.199 --> 00:53:16.840
<v Speaker 1>Very good, well, I wish you good luck with that.

1041
00:53:17.000 --> 00:53:18.519
<v Speaker 1>And what's the website again?

1042
00:53:19.039 --> 00:53:21.800
<v Speaker 3>The Empowered Customer dot Com is the landing page and

1043
00:53:21.840 --> 00:53:23.519
<v Speaker 3>from there that you can go all kinds of links.

1044
00:53:23.519 --> 00:53:25.440
<v Speaker 3>There's a whole bunch of social media posts on there.

1045
00:53:25.480 --> 00:53:30.159
<v Speaker 3>I'm trying to I'm trying to be the most social influencer,

1046
00:53:30.239 --> 00:53:33.119
<v Speaker 3>right kad alick guy, So you know I'm doing my best.

1047
00:53:33.760 --> 00:53:37.440
<v Speaker 1>Good And I still haven't heard from Larry Lestig if

1048
00:53:37.440 --> 00:53:40.119
<v Speaker 1>we're going to do a code in the castle next year,

1049
00:53:40.280 --> 00:53:43.519
<v Speaker 1>but if we do have any suggestions, go back to

1050
00:53:43.559 --> 00:53:46.119
<v Speaker 1>the same place or the same castle, or you have

1051
00:53:46.159 --> 00:53:48.559
<v Speaker 1>any other where he was thinking about the South of France.

1052
00:53:49.159 --> 00:53:51.199
<v Speaker 3>Maybe yeah, I would say the South of France is

1053
00:53:51.239 --> 00:53:54.199
<v Speaker 3>a great place. But I would also say that he

1054
00:53:54.280 --> 00:53:57.320
<v Speaker 3>can reduce the pricing of the of the experience by

1055
00:53:58.079 --> 00:54:02.360
<v Speaker 3>driving traffic to those merchants that we attended to in Italy, right,

1056
00:54:02.480 --> 00:54:05.400
<v Speaker 3>like it wasn't just us going to the Colden Castle.

1057
00:54:05.440 --> 00:54:08.719
<v Speaker 3>It was us as a group of consumers driving to

1058
00:54:08.800 --> 00:54:12.559
<v Speaker 3>all those different merchants. And my advice to his model is,

1059
00:54:12.599 --> 00:54:15.400
<v Speaker 3>and I've talked to him about this, get these merchants

1060
00:54:15.400 --> 00:54:17.960
<v Speaker 3>involved so that they can see how much traffic you're

1061
00:54:18.000 --> 00:54:20.880
<v Speaker 3>generating to them, because it's just not coding the castle.

1062
00:54:21.440 --> 00:54:23.840
<v Speaker 3>If people who hear it on Colden Castle tell their friends,

1063
00:54:23.880 --> 00:54:26.239
<v Speaker 3>and they tell to friends, then all those people are

1064
00:54:26.239 --> 00:54:27.480
<v Speaker 3>going to be going to those merchants.

1065
00:54:27.559 --> 00:54:32.519
<v Speaker 1>Yeah right, very good. And we know that those those

1066
00:54:32.559 --> 00:54:35.239
<v Speaker 1>customers have money because they can afford to go to

1067
00:54:35.280 --> 00:54:35.760
<v Speaker 1>code in the.

1068
00:54:35.719 --> 00:54:38.840
<v Speaker 2>Castle, had mondy had Bundy.

1069
00:54:39.000 --> 00:54:42.400
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, they had money. Right, they're going to spend some

1070
00:54:42.599 --> 00:54:44.440
<v Speaker 1>ching in your wine store.

1071
00:54:45.239 --> 00:54:48.159
<v Speaker 2>Well that's where the then actually that's one last point.

1072
00:54:48.519 --> 00:54:51.559
<v Speaker 3>Snapchin came from the snap of a camera and the

1073
00:54:51.840 --> 00:54:55.679
<v Speaker 3>ching of a cash register. Oh, snap ching, snapching.

1074
00:54:56.239 --> 00:54:58.519
<v Speaker 1>Very good, Richard. It's been a pleasure talking to you,

1075
00:54:58.519 --> 00:54:59.480
<v Speaker 1>and I hope to see as soon.

1076
00:54:59.760 --> 00:55:02.119
<v Speaker 3>Ye Take care, guys, appreciate your time, all right, and.

1077
00:55:02.119 --> 00:55:23.679
<v Speaker 1>We'll talk to you next time on dot net rocks.

1078
00:55:17.239 --> 00:55:28.719
<v Speaker 1>Dot net Rocks is brought to you by Franklin's Net

1079
00:55:28.840 --> 00:55:32.800
<v Speaker 1>and produced by Pop Studios. A full service audio, video

1080
00:55:32.880 --> 00:55:36.960
<v Speaker 1>and post production facility located physically in New London, Connecticut,

1081
00:55:37.199 --> 00:55:42.000
<v Speaker 1>and of course in the cloud online at pwop dot com.

1082
00:55:42.199 --> 00:55:44.360
<v Speaker 1>Visit our website at d O T N E t

1083
00:55:44.559 --> 00:55:48.599
<v Speaker 1>R O c k S dot com for RSS feeds, downloads,

1084
00:55:48.760 --> 00:55:52.440
<v Speaker 1>mobile apps, comments, and access to the full archives going

1085
00:55:52.480 --> 00:55:55.840
<v Speaker 1>back to show number one, recorded in September two thousand

1086
00:55:55.880 --> 00:55:58.519
<v Speaker 1>and two. And make sure you check out our sponsors.

1087
00:55:58.679 --> 00:56:01.480
<v Speaker 1>They keep us in business. Now go write some code.

1088
00:56:02.079 --> 00:56:05.960
<v Speaker 1>See you next time. You got tread middle vans now

1089
00:56:06.079 --> 00:56:11.800
<v Speaker 1>the summer time that means home.

1090
00:56:12.280 --> 00:56:14.800
<v Speaker 3>Then my Texas a lie Reddit b