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Speaker 1: How'd you like to listen to dot NetRocks with no ads? Easy?

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Become a patron for just five dollars a month. You

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get access to a private RSS feed where all the

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shows have no ads. Twenty dollars a month. We'll get

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you that and a special dot NetRocks patron mug. Sign

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up now at Patreon dot dot NetRocks dot com. Hey

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guess what. It's dot net rocks all over again. I'm

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Carl Franklin and I'm Richard Campbell. We're gonna be talking

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to our friend Richard Rukima. But first, hey, mister Campbell,

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how are you?

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Speaker 2: Yes, friend, I'm good. Somehow it's February, you know, time

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shifting wise?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, somehow?

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, this is publishing on February thirteenth, which means

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my thirtieth anniversary just happened.

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Speaker 1: Wow. Yeah, Are you gonna go out to this store

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and buy an eight dollars head of lettuce? Just wondering?

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Speaker 2: Is that the is the thirtieth Lettuce anniversary? Is that it? No?

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Speaker 1: No, I just think it's when.

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Speaker 2: The tariffski get.

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Speaker 1: It's not even funny, you.

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Speaker 2: Know, it's I don't all right, of course we're speculating

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as to what's actually going to happen.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we don't know.

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Speaker 2: We don't know, we don't we don't know.

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Speaker 1: It makes a good joke, might even doesn't It.

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Speaker 3: Might even be in US dollars.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I have the Canadian US saying I guess I'm

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going to come up to America. Yeah, the Gulf of Canada.

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Speaker 1: This is bad. I have two Canadians that are ganging

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up on the American here trouble. All right, let's kick

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it off with better no framework, roll the crazy music.

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Speaker 2: All right, man, what do you got?

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Speaker 1: Okay? Well, I went looking for, you know, GitHub repos

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that are trending right now, and like the top five

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are all AI things.

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Speaker 2: Oh geez, no, you.

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Speaker 1: Know it's no surprise, right.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, no, it's all it's getting a lot of

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energy and it's down two ways about it.

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Speaker 1: The number one was coge kho j. I don't know

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how you pronounce it. It's one of those made up

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names that nobody knows how to pronounce, Codge, coge whatever.

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But here's the about your AI second brain, self hostable,

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get answers from the web or your docs, build custom agents,

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schedule automations, do deep research, turn any online or local

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LM into your personal autonomous AI supports GPT, Claude, Gemini,

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Lama Quen, is it Gwen or Quinn.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's one of the local LM and.

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Speaker 1: Mistral and get started for free. That's all I know

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about it. But they have some videos and that kind

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of stuff, and like I said, it's trending and it's

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in that AI category. It's all built in Python by

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the way, so you know, but they have documentation and

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they have source and all that stuff. So if you're

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into it and you want another, you know, another Python

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project to look after, go for it. That's what I got,

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all right. He was talking to us today.

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Speaker 2: Richard Grady comment, I went the way back machine on

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this one, okay, because I know we're going to talk

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about data privacy and the like. And back in twenty fourteen,

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on show nine sixty five, so almost a thousand shows ago,

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we did a show with Hugh Jones talking about EU

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data protection losses. This when of the GDPR was just

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coming into play, right, and so it was good to

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have a conversation about, you know, what does this look like,

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what should we do? And so ten years ago Charles

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wrote this comment and I'm going to summarize because it's

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quite a long comedy talking a little about terrorism and

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things like this, but I want to specifically get into

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the sort of rational some of these things about, you know,

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don't I don't want to prepare, prepare over cynical, But

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people seem to react irrationally to terrorism, and most governments

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are exploiting that. It's easy to justify anything when pretending

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it will save the life of a child. This is

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twenty fourteenth, just to you know. And the reality is

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that we should, but we must stay irrational. Doctors irrational

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when they consider applying a vaccine to an entire population.

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They are certain they will kill a number of people

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because of side effects, but it will save a far

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larger number. Kind of on the point, isn't it. And

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of course he goes on to talk about the role

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of nine to eleven in extending the surveillance state massively,

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and he does not believe that the NSSA and are

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it's European equivalent, So are using new powers only against terrorism.

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It's a lot to do with political and business intelligence.

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So I'm not shocked at NSA spies on some European leaders.

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It's their job. But I am a bit shocked that

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they spy on everyone. This is right after the snow

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did reveal right again, I think what surprised me most

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about the snowed and affair is not so much to

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scale the NSA spine, but the lack of reaction from

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everyone else, and probably the lack of understanding of the

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implications of what is going on there. Making a list

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of what data is collected on us would be an

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interesting geek out. Show your mobile collects and uploads all

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the places you've been in a day, and a nice

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little phone app with buttons to link your web browsing

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if your identity as well. Your web mail provider can

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get us your religion, political opinion, sexual orientation without having

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to ask. They even figure out if you're pregnant or not.

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And if they don't do it now, there's nothing that

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will print them from doing it someday in the future.

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The inner things will only make this worse. We should

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be keeping this in mind as we look at one

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of the most fundamental laws of nature that what can

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go wrong will eventually go wrong someday. So now, there

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was Charles talking about the surveillance state back in twenty

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fourteen when the whole snowedent thing had blown up, and

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we were all talking about at least the fact that

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governments were doing it, but just a recognition that social

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media was doing it as well. So thanks Charles. I

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read your comment on the show, and a copy of

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music to Koba is on its way to UNI. If

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you'd like a copy of music Gooba. I write a

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comment on the website at dot net rocks dot comma

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on the facebooks. We publish every show there, and if

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you comment there and are reading the show, we'll send

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you copy music Koba.

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Speaker 1: And you could follow us on the other social media's

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We've been on ex Twitter forever. We're also on Macedon

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in Blue Sky is the current hotness where there seems

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to be a lot of engagement there, so some variation

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of at Carl Franklin, at Rich Campbell, We'll get you there,

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you'll find us, you'll find us. Let's talk about the year, right,

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nineteen thirty seven, eighteen thirty seven. I'm just going to

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pick a few. You know. The thing is, I can't

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even get through March, yeah, because there's so many things

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that happen. January first, Golden Gate Bridge opens to pedestriansyay.

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January twelfth, first woman elected to the US Senate. Hattie

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Wyatt Caraway of Arkansas made history by becoming the first

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woman elected to the US Senate. January nineteenth, Howard Hughes

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remember that crazy guy sets transcontinental air speed record. Very good.

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January thirtieth, Hitler's ominous Reichstag speech. In a significant diplomatic

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and rhetorical moment, Hitler addresses the Reichstag warning that the

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outbreak of war would result in the complete destruction of Germany.

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And he was right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, okay.

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Speaker 1: Nineteen thirty seven saw a massive destruction in massacres in

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Ethiopia at the hands of the Italian forces were very bad. Also,

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many events in the Spanish Civil War, too many to mention.

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March third, Emelia Earhart's mysterious disappearance and you got anything, Richard.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. This nineteen thirty seven is the year that Hindenberg

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went down that famous video clip. You've seen it and

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the oh the humanity.

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Speaker 1: That's oh the humanity. Ay. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: It's also the year that the first jet eng were

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being tested be into development for a couple of years,

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but both Ohan and Whittell did their ground testing of

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turbine engines. So yeah, even before the war started, the

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engines were already in development, right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a lot of military technology going on.

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Speaker 2: There's a lot going on. It was a spendee time.

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Speaker 1: It was a spending time. Yeah, all right, so let

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us bring in for the second time on dot net

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Rocks the third time? Is it second or third?

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Speaker 3: Second? We've met three times?

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Speaker 1: Okay? Well. Richard Rukmu's expertise is in creating or integrating

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software into a business value proposition. He's performed in many

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roles throughout his career, but remains focused on delivering an

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efficient and effective business process, blending the characteristics of a

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deep technical resource, an entrepreneur mindset, and a business analyst.

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Richard always begins his work by understanding the business context

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for his service. There's more about that, but he really

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wants to talk about his experience in Italian vineyards, right. Absolutely.

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Speaker 3: The pairing of coding in a castle and wine go

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very well together.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, they certainly do. So, welcome back, Richard.

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Speaker 2: Thank you very much. Appreciate appreciate being on the show.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely, and you have a lot to talk about today.

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You send us a whole bunch of topic ideas well,

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one big topic idea. But I'm just gonna let you

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take it.

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Speaker 3: Well, I've been working in this space for a while,

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and I thought I had some time off, and I thought,

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what can I do with my time off? And I thought,

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I know what I'll do. I'll write a book. Yeah, sure,

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And the book's called The book is called The Empowered

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Customer dot Com. Yeah, and it takes the perspective of

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a customer's viewpoint of their data and how it's used

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in marketing, and how I can control and use that data.

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And I document how I create what is called a

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data cooperative, in which everybody owns their data into the cooperative,

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but the aggregation of the data becomes more valuable and

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the revenue from that data is then shared with those

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that contribute.

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Speaker 1: Give me an example of this I'm trying to find.

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I mean, when I think about data, I think about

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data being you know, usage, data being stolen from people's

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phones and they're never seeing a dime for that data.

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Speaker 2: But stolen's too strong a term. Right now, Natalie, give

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it away.

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Speaker 1: You agrieved for them to you let them steal it. Okay,

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how about that?

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Speaker 3: So one of my one of my posts that I've

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put up often is what if Google was a cooperative right,

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would may be worth billions? It's worth billions if not

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more right every time, wouldn't be you know? Said m hmm, yeah,

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I wouldn't. Well, the data is worth billions that are

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providing it, right, But the the how does Google get

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their data that they can sell and make that valuation?

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Speaker 1: Like?

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Speaker 3: How do they get their data? And it's very simple

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in that they it's the breadcrumb of information that you

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use for search terms in their search bar. So if

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you say ski Calgary, that reveals a lot about you

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and that gets tagged to your profile and Google immediately

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then says, hey, I got a customer that wants to

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go skiing and he lives in Calgary. Who wants to

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know about this guy? And they sell that targeted advertising

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based on just those two terms. But it's just not

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those two terms, it's your entire history of search with Google,

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regardless of your persona or anything else. That those tags

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are a way to generate a profile of you that

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they sell.

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Speaker 1: And everything that you search for goes into that profile

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and then can be put together to form a more

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complete picture of you. Correct.

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Speaker 3: Correct, And now AI agents are even taking that further

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with contextual information about a discussion or anything that you have.

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And that's the same model being introduced where data is

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extracted from our activity involving with this information, and they

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make the money on information that we gleefully give them

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for free. And what I want to try to do

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is set up a cooperative that is owned by people

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that we willingly provide that same data but to the cooperative.

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Speaker 1: And what kind of commie talk is that, Richard Rukma,

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that's crazy talk.

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Speaker 3: Well, I don't know, gonna send me a check, Richard.

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I'll bow to your memory of what a cooperative is

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because it started in the thirties where people it was

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a weaving shop and they all helped each other build

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sure and do weaves and then sold the product. And

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then and then that was in the Saskatchewan. It started

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off as for power consumption, where a bunch of people

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wanted power and no corporation was going to do it,

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so they all got together and built themselves a power plant.

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Speaker 1: And we have food co ops all over the place

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in the United States and Canada.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I think, I really think it starts with

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the farmers with consolidating cereal crops that you need to

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be there best stored en mass and defended on mass

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and packaged in consistent formats and sold as scale. And

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no farmer can do all of that themselves. So you

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put together these the wheat pools, right, the cooperative pools

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to do the selling part to the point where they

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That's how you end up with the markets that can

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literally tell the farmer, hey, I can get this much

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for your wheat for next season.

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Speaker 3: So I parallel that example exactly with everybody else, because

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we're actually the farmers of our own words that we create,

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and we contribute that into a cooperative which then aggregate.

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Through aggregation, becomes extremely valuable. And we've seen, like they

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think of all the social media platforms that leverage this model, Google,

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Pinterest X or ex Twitter as you call it, next Twitter,

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I mean blue Sky, I mean they all, all of them,

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all of them rely on this business model. And all

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I'm suggesting is that the data feed for this model

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is suggested in the book, is for your shopping patterns

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in physical retail locations or your local merchant. So if

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you're going to if you want to support your local merchant,

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you would engage with that local merchant using the technology

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that I've outlined in the book, which is not passively collected.

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It's actively collected from the customer to the merchant and

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is held in this data repository, which I call the

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snapching iq business model. And that snapching it business model

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is if you contribute, you get paid for it when

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there's money and revenue generated from your data.

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Speaker 1: So I'm thinking about this. I have a local grocery store.

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I go to check out and I scan everything, so

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there's the list of items that I bought, and then

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I pay with my credit cards. So there's my identity.

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What don't they already have?

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Speaker 2: Well, the credit card is not your identity.

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Speaker 3: In fact, the merchant has no identity from the credit

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card at whatsoever, and that's protected by what we call

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the bank Act. Okay, the only thing that will allow

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you to see the basket which is which is what

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you're talking about, the basket of at the checkout is

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a loyalty card.

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Speaker 1: A loyalty card, of course, that's what they're for. That's

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how they do it.

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Speaker 3: And the loyalty card is not for loyalty, it's for

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accumulation of data that's associated with the customer.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, of course, and you get a pitily little discount

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to make you think you thank you, you're getting some

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benefit from it.

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Speaker 3: So I've been at this a while, and there's we

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have this what they call a coalition program. The coalition

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program that that is in Canada is called air Miles.

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Speaker 2: I think you guys have it too in the States.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 3: So in air Miles, they had to stop giving loyalty

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to gas stations. Do you know why why people were

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pouring gas on the ground so that they would get

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their next point Because they had to spend X number

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of dollars to get their loyalty points.

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Speaker 2: Oh, so they fill up their tanks, but they hadn't

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gotten gone quite far enough to get their next set

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of points, right, So they'll just hump all the x

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dice gas.

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Speaker 3: They poured it on the ground, like, oh, I'll just

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pour thirty cents on the ground make sure I get

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my next my next loyalty point.

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Speaker 1: That's outrageous.

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Speaker 3: And then what people didn't understand. What people didn't understand

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is that for every point in the air Miles program,

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it was worth a penny, and air Miles sold that

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data worth about twenty bucks. So you know they were

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giving away a penny but earning twenty.

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Speaker 2: And doing it by dropping a couple of bucks with

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a gas on the ground in the process.

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Speaker 3: Yeah right, because you know they It's just crazy. It's crazy.

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Speaker 1: What the.

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Speaker 3: Calculation of loyalty points is not done because it's money.

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It's because nobody can do it in their head and

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understand how many points are worth.

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Speaker 1: All right, So back to this whole co op thing.

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Are you suggesting that these existing companies that collect data

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turn into co ops or are you suggesting that we create

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new services and new institutions that adopt the co op model.

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Speaker 3: I think there's a great article I read by Simon Schneck.

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Speaker 2: I think is es. I don't know if I say

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it's spelt it right.

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Speaker 3: He's a business leader, and he says the capitalism of

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today is changed dramatically from the capitalism that we have

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in the thirties. The capitalism we had in the thirties

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was the benefit of the company to the people, was

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the primary concern of the corporation. The capitalism we have

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today is how much does the shareholders get? What is

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the revenue potential for the shareholders? And if we have

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to cut eighty percent of the staff. We'll do that

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just to make sure we keep the shareholder value up

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and forget about the customer. I'm just advocating for that

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now that we as customers, if we empower ourselves, we

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can make a change by cooperative what I call cooperative consumerism,

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where we if we cooperate in our consumersm of products,

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we can direct market forces to be in our favor.

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Speaker 1: But how can we do that and keep our existing institutions?

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So how do we do it?

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Speaker 3: The one example I often cite is gas stations in Canada. Everybody,

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if there's collusion at the gas stations, I'd like they

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say there isn't. They They've done studies it isn't. But

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when somebody goes up a penny, everybody goes up penny

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at the same time.

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Speaker 2: Is it collusion? It's collusion. If they all got on

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the phone say I'm going to raise my price a penny,

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it's not collusion. If one of them raises the price

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of penny and the rest of them see that and

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then follow, that's true.

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Speaker 3: True, But market market forces say that that shouldn't happen.

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They should.

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Speaker 2: Right Like this is Adam Smith's sort of fictional idea

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that this had drive that down. You mean, the corollary

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should be true. If one of them reduces by a penny,

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the rest of them should all reduce because their sales

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would dry up.

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Speaker 3: That that's true, and it does happen. That does happen.

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But what happens is if you raise your price a

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penny and everybody follows to raise the price of penny,

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the consumer still has no choice when when somebody who

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raises the price a penny should have less demand because

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there's other demands. There's other suppliers that will have a

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reduced price. Right, But if you collude to with each other,

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and I'm using that word clude that, oh his price

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went on, I'm going to take mine up. There is

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no choice in the market as to wear to buy

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gas because it's all the same price. So this cooperative

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consumerism is let's all buy gas by company X and

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exclude and exclude all the other ones, or just don't

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buy from one of the gas stations forget it.

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Speaker 2: Just stop it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, but that's their sales go down for the week.

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Speaker 1: But that's not always a choice that every consumer can make, right, true.

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I mean, if I live in an inner city and

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my market is right downstairs from my apartment, and somebody says, oh,

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you know, to be a good CISZ and we're not

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going to buy from this marketing. We're going to buy

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from that market, which is, you know, ten minute walk away.

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My lazy ass isn't walking ten minutes just to satisfy

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some data sharing algorithm. Do you know what I'm saying.

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I mean, it's very hard to convince consumers to change

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their behavior.

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Speaker 3: I hear you. I mean if we look at clothing

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and we buy, and we have two T shirts in

386
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front of us, one's a fifteen dollars shirt and the

387
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other one's a five dollars shirt, Yeah, which one is

388
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the consumer going to buy? We are so as consumers

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centric on the right that we are causing demand like

390
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even in North America and the United States especially nowadays,

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or buy go, buy American, but you can't. You can't

392
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buy American because all the pieces of the supply chain

393
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are outside of America, right right, So we as this

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whole movement is understanding that in the old days, when

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you had a general store and a butcher, and a

396
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plumber and electrician, they all helped each other to make

397
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it sure. Yeah, sure, right, So it was only at

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the advent of a conglomerate like a huge store that

399
00:20:35,759 --> 00:20:37,119
we all start with C. I don't know if I

400
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can say it, just because I don't want to get

401
00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:41,400
any kind of going. Well, there's a lot of deflamminationary.

402
00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:45,759
But you know, we're fixated on the price, but we

403
00:20:45,839 --> 00:20:51,319
don't understand revenue diversification. So now these companies are leveraging

404
00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:55,720
us away from these models by saying, okay, our prices

405
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are three four five percent above operating, but we'll make

406
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our profit elsewhere. And that's on membership.

407
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Speaker 1: All right. Let's take a town. Let's just start small here.

408
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Take a small town, maybe population twenty thousand, right, very

409
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small town, and there's a whole bunch of local shops.

410
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You know that everyone who lives in that town would

411
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prefer to buy local. They would prefer to visit the

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local coffee shop rather than go to Starbucks. They would

413
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prefer to, you know, go to their local restaurants rather

414
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than go to chain restaurants. And so you know, there's

415
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an opportunity to do something. I see because you've already

416
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got this sort of infrastructure in place. But if but

417
00:21:39,599 --> 00:21:42,160
if by another token, you live in a big city

418
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and you live where there's only big box stores and

419
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there's only chains and all of these things, and you're

420
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buying most of your stuff from Amazon. Anyway, you know,

421
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how how does that change?

422
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Speaker 3: Well, I think I think the onus. I'm just proposing

423
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that we.

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Speaker 2: Look upon ourselves to change.

425
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Speaker 3: Okay, Like we can't if we don't blame if we

426
00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:07,000
blame the government from doing something wrong, that's a pointless argument.

427
00:22:07,039 --> 00:22:09,160
You got to look at yourself and who you voted for.

428
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Speaker 1: You Well, there you go, right, Like good, point right.

429
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Speaker 3: So your dollars are your voting mechanism for businesses that

430
00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:19,359
surround in your community and well, and governments are trailing indicators.

431
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It's not just who you voted for, it's what you

432
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told them you wanted in the process. You know, they're

433
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supposed to be. It's a representative government. So it's up

434
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to us to represent the ideas that we want to them,

435
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hopefully to get manifest in some way.

436
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Speaker 1: Mm hmm.

437
00:22:35,839 --> 00:22:39,880
Speaker 2: But this, you know, the cooperative model banking is a

438
00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:42,039
great example of that, because we do have cooperative banks

439
00:22:42,039 --> 00:22:44,720
we call them credit union might and they try to

440
00:22:44,759 --> 00:22:49,000
be more regional and deliver services specifically to their communities

441
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and products so forth. They're still you know, regulated to

442
00:22:52,119 --> 00:22:54,319
a degree, so they there's limits on what they can do,

443
00:22:55,039 --> 00:22:56,480
But it's just a question of do you get as

444
00:22:56,559 --> 00:22:58,240
much value from that? You know, the upside of the

445
00:22:58,279 --> 00:23:01,359
larger cocommerate often is more bying powersore prices tend to

446
00:23:01,359 --> 00:23:06,039
be lower, and larger diversity of product offering, whether you're

447
00:23:06,039 --> 00:23:07,319
talking about banking or grocer.

448
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Speaker 3: So the only thing I'm trying to arrange is the net.

449
00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:14,920
So if that's the thought of having a data cooperative

450
00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:17,720
and we clumulate data, the question then becomes, and I

451
00:23:17,759 --> 00:23:20,160
think you pointed out, Carls, how do we gather this data?

452
00:23:20,519 --> 00:23:21,759
Speaker 2: How do we get this data?

453
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Speaker 3: Because if you start a war against Google, you're going

454
00:23:24,599 --> 00:23:27,279
to lose. Sure, you start a war against Microsoft, you're

455
00:23:27,319 --> 00:23:30,480
going to lose, right right, So where is the source

456
00:23:30,519 --> 00:23:33,720
of data that we can have that streams in for

457
00:23:33,759 --> 00:23:36,640
this cooperative? And I'm proposing that we do it with

458
00:23:36,799 --> 00:23:41,279
QR codes that consumers can scan either at the door

459
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of the merchant or within the context of whatever that

460
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QR code represents. And now it's it's an opt in process.

461
00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:52,319
I'm not watching your WiFi, I'm not taking your bluetooth.

462
00:23:52,359 --> 00:23:57,160
I'm not scanning, but I'm scanning a QR code that

463
00:23:57,200 --> 00:24:01,519
this merchant is part of the customer ecosystem or the

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snapching iq business system.

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Speaker 1: What is the benefit to the merchant to enroll in

466
00:24:07,079 --> 00:24:09,480
a co op where they have to pay out for

467
00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:12,119
data rather than just take it the way they are

468
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doing now?

469
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Speaker 3: Participation? If I have a merchant that drives a loyalty

470
00:24:16,599 --> 00:24:21,000
program and I ask for everybody's email address, I'm going

471
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to get about three three to four percent participation in

472
00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:24,720
the loyalty program.

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Speaker 1: But what if you give out cards though, loyalty cards?

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Speaker 3: No, but that's the loyalty card has an identity to

475
00:24:30,079 --> 00:24:32,279
it that identifies you to that merchant.

476
00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:35,079
Speaker 1: Yeah, but everybody has them. I mean, it's what I'm saying.

477
00:24:35,279 --> 00:24:39,440
So if all their shoppers have identity cards loyalty cards,

478
00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:42,200
what is the benefit for them to move over to

479
00:24:42,279 --> 00:24:44,119
a model where they actually have to pay for that

480
00:24:44,519 --> 00:24:45,799
to the consumer.

481
00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:48,759
Speaker 3: A larger broader audience of customers. So if I not

482
00:24:48,759 --> 00:24:51,119
everybody gets a loyalty card, yeah, and not everybody gets

483
00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:53,640
a wealthy card too, But think about just the data.

484
00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:57,400
If I take a loyalty card with Starbucks, I know

485
00:24:57,440 --> 00:25:00,000
how many times I go visit Starbucks, but I don't.

486
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:01,279
I don't know how many times I went to the

487
00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:05,440
luck to the that my profile doesn't at Starbucks doesn't

488
00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:08,799
show that I like bread, So it's an incomplete profile

489
00:25:08,839 --> 00:25:09,559
of the customer.

490
00:25:09,839 --> 00:25:15,240
Speaker 1: So I'm sorry, I just have these questions. Getting back

491
00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:18,720
to the grocery store. You scan your loyalty card, you

492
00:25:18,759 --> 00:25:20,960
scan your food. They know you like bread.

493
00:25:21,559 --> 00:25:24,519
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's true, but whose benefit is that? Is it

494
00:25:24,559 --> 00:25:26,440
to the customer that they like bread or is it

495
00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:27,160
to the merchant?

496
00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:31,279
Speaker 1: That definitely, it's definitely a merchant, and they reward you

497
00:25:31,319 --> 00:25:34,359
by giving you discounts. That's how they reward you. And

498
00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:36,960
I'm sure somebody did the math to say how much

499
00:25:37,079 --> 00:25:39,559
do we have to give them so they keep using

500
00:25:39,599 --> 00:25:43,240
the card? Right, So that's an economic measurement.

501
00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:45,920
Speaker 3: There's one thing here that you have to understand. Okay,

502
00:25:46,039 --> 00:25:48,759
when you scan the QR code, the data doesn't go

503
00:25:48,839 --> 00:25:52,119
to the merchant. It goes to the snapching iq business model.

504
00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:56,799
So now if everybody that participates in the snapchain iq

505
00:25:56,960 --> 00:25:59,839
business model, all that data streaming in from all the

506
00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:04,880
QR codes goes to the centralized repository of the data

507
00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:10,000
mart that represents that activity across all kinds of merchants,

508
00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:13,960
and that value that data becomes as valuable as Google's

509
00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:20,240
databases now okay, right, And because it's a cooperative, when

510
00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:23,440
that data is sold and used, you get a cutback

511
00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:24,119
for that data.

512
00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:29,720
Speaker 1: So instead of you know, shopright getting selling their data

513
00:26:29,839 --> 00:26:32,319
as a global company or whatever, just the data that

514
00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:35,200
they have about you and your you know, your your

515
00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:39,200
bread choices, now they would become part of a bigger

516
00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:41,880
co op that has to do with you know, the

517
00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:44,599
kind of cars you buy and the kind of tires

518
00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:47,839
that you get, and where you go get your lunches

519
00:26:47,839 --> 00:26:52,000
and dinners and and all the all of the things. Right,

520
00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:54,279
So the data sets more valuable.

521
00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:57,400
Speaker 3: And it's a much more complete. The data set's extremely

522
00:26:57,480 --> 00:27:00,799
valuable because not only is it not fake, because you

523
00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:04,200
can't fake going shopping at your local merchants, right, you

524
00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:07,680
can't let hire a click team in India to actually

525
00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:12,880
do that for you anymore, right, But the activity of

526
00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:15,720
a customer in that environment is shared with all the

527
00:27:15,799 --> 00:27:19,240
other customers in that environment to make the value. But

528
00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:24,039
what's more interesting about this is that if the interface

529
00:27:24,079 --> 00:27:27,400
of the snapching iq business model says I'm a concustomer

530
00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:31,200
and I want to start looking for TV. What if

531
00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:33,160
I just raise the flag that I'm looking for a

532
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:36,839
TV so that all the merchants can see that I'm

533
00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:41,640
looking for a TV. And now we've got targeted advertising

534
00:27:41,759 --> 00:27:46,279
on intent as opposed to reaction like activity.

535
00:27:46,079 --> 00:27:49,400
Speaker 1: Right right right, instead of getting ads for things that

536
00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:54,119
you just bought, which is my favorite thing in the world.

537
00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:59,319
So let's stay with the supermarket thing. So you're basically

538
00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:04,079
saying to shop, right, Hey, give up this your your

539
00:28:04,119 --> 00:28:08,400
own little world of you know, QR code or barcode

540
00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:12,319
scanning thing for your own data set tap into this

541
00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:16,119
bigger co op. You can still you know, just replace

542
00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:22,359
the barcode, right, you can still offer people a discount,

543
00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:25,359
you know, on their groceries or whatever the gas points

544
00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:28,920
they do it stop and shop here in New England.

545
00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:35,319
But then would they get money from the data that's

546
00:28:35,319 --> 00:28:38,880
sold to I mean if you're if is everybody that's

547
00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:40,559
part of the co op getting a check?

548
00:28:40,799 --> 00:28:44,599
Speaker 3: So I outlined one other party in the data model,

549
00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:49,440
and that's called influencers. Right, I'm going to touch on influencers,

550
00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:51,319
but I want to go back to your barcode. We

551
00:28:51,359 --> 00:28:53,839
wouldn't replace the barcode because the barcode's tied into their

552
00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:56,440
pos and that's already very in pricing and everything else,

553
00:28:56,440 --> 00:28:59,640
so you can't. You're not going to displace that. But

554
00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:01,960
I'll get give you an example of what some markets

555
00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:05,440
did in Spain that caused a tremendous amount of traffic

556
00:29:06,319 --> 00:29:07,759
to grocery stores in Spain.

557
00:29:08,039 --> 00:29:09,519
Speaker 2: Okay, are you familiar with this story?

558
00:29:09,799 --> 00:29:12,000
Speaker 1: No, but I can't wait to hear it. That's why

559
00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:12,599
I'm smiling.

560
00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:15,400
Speaker 3: So somebody thought, you know what if you're single and

561
00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:18,480
you want a date, go shop groceries on Thursday night

562
00:29:18,519 --> 00:29:21,359
at Spain. Wow, and everybody was single that went out

563
00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:23,839
and they shopped groceries. They went and bought groceries in

564
00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:27,400
Spain on Thursday night. They showed pictures of these grocery

565
00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:31,279
stores so jam packed with guys and girls running their

566
00:29:31,319 --> 00:29:34,960
carts into each other. Oh, that's great as introductions to.

567
00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:37,559
Speaker 2: Do it, that's great, But.

568
00:29:37,599 --> 00:29:39,880
Speaker 3: That wasn't because the market thought it was a great

569
00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:42,920
idea to do. That's because consumers came up and said,

570
00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:45,640
you know, we're not having this virtualized stuff. We want

571
00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:49,000
to have real face to face visits and through the

572
00:29:49,319 --> 00:29:51,240
cooperation of the of all the customers.

573
00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:51,680
Speaker 2: They did that.

574
00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:57,240
Speaker 3: So that's interesting in this model, we are joining a

575
00:29:57,279 --> 00:30:00,319
cooperative group. And why does the merchant want to do that? Well,

576
00:30:00,359 --> 00:30:04,200
it increases participation because people want to scan those barcodes

577
00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:08,000
because it represents pennies on the dollar for their activity.

578
00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:08,400
Speaker 1: Sure.

579
00:30:08,599 --> 00:30:10,880
Speaker 2: I mean the part I don't think you've emphasized here

580
00:30:11,039 --> 00:30:14,359
is participating in that cooperative for one store means that

581
00:30:14,359 --> 00:30:16,599
they also get access to the customers of all the

582
00:30:16,599 --> 00:30:17,240
other stores.

583
00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:18,240
Speaker 1: Yeah.

584
00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:21,200
Speaker 2: Now so yeah, yeah, you know the customer that signed

585
00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:23,240
up in that got into the cooperative because they went

586
00:30:23,279 --> 00:30:26,200
and got tires, now also is in the cooperative for grocery.

587
00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:29,200
Speaker 3: Yeah. And the important charact that is that there's no

588
00:30:29,279 --> 00:30:34,519
outbound activity for marketing out of Snapchin. It's always inbound.

589
00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:36,640
So in snapchain, there's an inbox.

590
00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:39,359
Speaker 1: Now, snapchain is something that you've mentioned a couple of

591
00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:41,240
times without really defining it. What is that?

592
00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:44,480
Speaker 3: So in the book I talk about the snapchaing IQ,

593
00:30:44,599 --> 00:30:47,519
which is the business model, and then I did an

594
00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:52,079
MVP of the model in a product called Snapching. Oh okay,

595
00:30:52,119 --> 00:30:54,240
And you can go to snapchin dot com and there's

596
00:30:54,519 --> 00:30:57,880
it's a full site where merchants can enroll, generate QR

597
00:30:57,960 --> 00:30:58,640
codes and hang.

598
00:30:58,519 --> 00:30:59,720
Speaker 2: Them up in their merchant locations.

599
00:30:59,759 --> 00:31:02,359
Speaker 3: Okay, right, as part of the See this is how

600
00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:06,000
it would work in terms of one hundred percent privacy compliant,

601
00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:11,440
ethical data management of customer data. Because merchants can participate

602
00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:16,440
in this and get huge participation in the program. Merchants,

603
00:31:16,559 --> 00:31:19,279
the customers enjoy it because they're actually getting benefit from

604
00:31:19,319 --> 00:31:22,960
participating in the model. And I talk about how we're

605
00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:25,960
going to build this so that it's a worldwide movement,

606
00:31:26,319 --> 00:31:31,240
and it's like, you know, think big, but build small.

607
00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:34,519
So I live in Kolona, BC, So why not just

608
00:31:34,559 --> 00:31:37,200
have five or six merchants in COLONABC that are participating

609
00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:40,920
in the model and see it grow. Calgary, Evans and Vancouver.

610
00:31:41,279 --> 00:31:43,960
Those are all regional areas that we can see this

611
00:31:44,079 --> 00:31:47,440
kind of movement grow. But all the data goes in. Now, remember,

612
00:31:47,759 --> 00:31:50,400
no merchant sees personal identifying information.

613
00:31:50,519 --> 00:31:51,200
Speaker 2: They don't get that.

614
00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:54,680
Speaker 3: They only get statistical information. If they say, hey, I

615
00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:57,599
want to do an ad for cauliflower, we can use

616
00:31:57,640 --> 00:32:01,880
that definition against the database to see who's interest in cauliflower,

617
00:32:02,519 --> 00:32:05,319
So they would know how many emails they're going to

618
00:32:05,359 --> 00:32:07,640
send now I say emails, but it's actual really a

619
00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:10,559
message to a consumer that wants cauliflower through the app

620
00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:14,119
in the app, but that's charged to the merchant. So

621
00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:17,920
therefore the efficiency of the marketing in the in the

622
00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:22,079
whole business model is dramatically improved. So instead of saying

623
00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:25,680
hundreds of million dollars are marketing that fails, merchants can

624
00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:28,359
now pay exactly for how much that message is going

625
00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:29,400
to return to them.

626
00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:34,000
Speaker 1: So, by signing up and sharing your data, you mentioned

627
00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:38,000
you know, ethics and privacy and all of that stuff.

628
00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:43,240
The data is obviously scrubbed, but you also said that

629
00:32:43,279 --> 00:32:48,000
the data would be sold, and the sale of that

630
00:32:48,119 --> 00:32:55,119
data would precipitate payments to the people that participate in

631
00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:59,119
the co op. So in order to in order to

632
00:32:59,279 --> 00:33:02,519
join this, you really have to sign the agreement. Read

633
00:33:02,559 --> 00:33:05,119
it really closely that you are going to be sharing

634
00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:10,200
your data. Big surprise, you're already doing it, but at

635
00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:12,759
least you have a say in it.

636
00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:16,079
Speaker 3: Remember that the data that's being shared with the merchant

637
00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:20,400
is statistical and aggregated information. It's not personal. They don't

638
00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:22,079
get email editors, so they don't get phone number.

639
00:33:22,279 --> 00:33:22,519
Speaker 1: Right.

640
00:33:22,599 --> 00:33:26,599
Speaker 3: Because the model, the business model sits in between and

641
00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:30,920
protects the customer from all the forces that want to

642
00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:32,079
understand that information.

643
00:33:32,599 --> 00:33:35,319
Speaker 1: It's interesting. All right, let's take a little break. We'll

644
00:33:35,319 --> 00:33:38,039
come right back with Richard Rukima. And you're listening to

645
00:33:38,160 --> 00:33:42,079
dot net rocks and stay tuned. Did you know you

646
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647
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on Aws. Use the app to Container tool to containerize

648
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650
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contain at aws, dot Amazon dot Com, slash, dot net,

651
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slash Modernize. All right, we're back. It's dotting at rocks.

652
00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:13,079
I'm Carl Franklin, that's Richard Campbell, hey, and that's Richard Rukman.

653
00:34:13,199 --> 00:34:16,920
We're having a really interesting conversation that sort of borders

654
00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:22,079
marketing and big data and and these economic forces. It's

655
00:34:22,159 --> 00:34:22,719
I love.

656
00:34:22,559 --> 00:34:26,239
Speaker 3: These ethical data management, ethical data manage.

657
00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:29,199
Speaker 1: Ethical data management. Yeah, it's really cool. So my next

658
00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:33,079
question is how can you know when we come up

659
00:34:33,119 --> 00:34:36,519
with these great ideas. Sometimes we don't think, oh, I

660
00:34:36,599 --> 00:34:39,760
forgot people are evil? How are they going to take

661
00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:44,440
advantage of this system? So how do you see the

662
00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:47,320
protections in place, and what are the places that somebody

663
00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:48,320
could gain the system.

664
00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:51,920
Speaker 3: Well, we're already seeing it in some areas where the

665
00:34:52,039 --> 00:34:56,920
QR codes are being like are being other QR codes

666
00:34:56,960 --> 00:34:59,559
are being stuck on top of the QR codes and

667
00:34:59,599 --> 00:35:02,679
then you don't see the scanning and where that takes you. Right,

668
00:35:03,599 --> 00:35:08,199
The important difference in the technology of snapchain the business

669
00:35:08,239 --> 00:35:10,639
model is that when you scan a QR code, it

670
00:35:10,639 --> 00:35:13,840
doesn't take you anywhere because it generates a text message.

671
00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:17,199
That text message is a one eight hundred number that

672
00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:20,119
you can see clear as day that Okay, I'm sending

673
00:35:20,159 --> 00:35:24,280
a text message to the service from my phone to

674
00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:27,599
this number to be able to get the understanding of

675
00:35:27,639 --> 00:35:31,079
what the benefit is behind the QR code, and I

676
00:35:31,079 --> 00:35:34,679
think it's a two step, two factor method authentication. It's

677
00:35:34,719 --> 00:35:36,840
just not a UR code that you're getting brought sent to.

678
00:35:37,679 --> 00:35:40,119
You are asked to scan the code, take a look

679
00:35:40,119 --> 00:35:42,480
at what it's there on your phone from a message,

680
00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:45,599
and then pressent And that's the opt in process to

681
00:35:45,639 --> 00:35:49,960
make this absolutely hundred percent privacy compliant. Because you are

682
00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:53,159
the one that's activating the requiry.

683
00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:59,360
Speaker 1: You have MFA jeez, can somebody set up a phone

684
00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:04,840
farm and you know, create hundreds of thousands of accounts

685
00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:08,239
to to get money, to steal money out of the

686
00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:11,360
out of the co op. I mean, are there other

687
00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:14,920
potential pitfalls there? Well?

688
00:36:15,039 --> 00:36:17,800
Speaker 3: Never, there's there's I don't know who set up, but

689
00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:20,800
somebody said, never underestimate the creativity of a criminal mind.

690
00:36:21,119 --> 00:36:21,519
Speaker 1: Yeah.

691
00:36:22,079 --> 00:36:26,440
Speaker 3: Right, But remember the activity of a bot as opposed

692
00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:28,599
to activity of a human is vastly different.

693
00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:30,000
Speaker 1: Right.

694
00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:34,039
Speaker 3: If you're in two different shops within ten seconds and

695
00:36:34,079 --> 00:36:38,960
the shops are five klomters apart, yeah, somber. I. I

696
00:36:39,119 --> 00:36:42,440
chose local merchants for a reason because I want to

697
00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:44,880
support my local merchant in the business that they do.

698
00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:48,039
Because ninety five percent of all employment is local merchants,

699
00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:49,159
it's hard.

700
00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:52,519
Speaker 1: To argue against it, against buying local, right.

701
00:36:52,599 --> 00:36:55,840
Speaker 3: It's it's hard because we all have to support each other, right, right.

702
00:36:56,360 --> 00:37:01,119
But the whole model of this was I didn't want

703
00:37:01,119 --> 00:37:05,079
a mobile application. I didn't want to have a registration process.

704
00:37:05,519 --> 00:37:07,840
I just wanted somebody to see a QR code and

705
00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:10,960
think that's a good idea. I've heard about this snapchin

706
00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:13,400
business model. I want to participate. All you got to

707
00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:15,880
do is scan the QR code with your camera, it

708
00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:18,880
generates the text message and you're registered. You're in the program.

709
00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:20,599
I don't know your name and I don't really address,

710
00:37:20,599 --> 00:37:21,440
but I have your phone number.

711
00:37:21,480 --> 00:37:23,599
Speaker 1: Oh, so it's all through Smster. There's no apps.

712
00:37:23,719 --> 00:37:26,199
Speaker 3: There's no app as of this right now, there's no app,

713
00:37:26,559 --> 00:37:28,119
and I don't want there to be an app because

714
00:37:28,159 --> 00:37:30,760
I don't want the friction of saying, oh, to participate,

715
00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:32,719
you got to download this application and register.

716
00:37:32,920 --> 00:37:36,239
Speaker 1: Yeah. Also, you know, if you're going to be on iOS,

717
00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:38,719
which is probably where you want to be, you're going

718
00:37:38,760 --> 00:37:41,039
to have to you know, share revenue with Apple and

719
00:37:41,039 --> 00:37:43,639
all that stuff. Nobody wants to do that.

720
00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:46,760
Speaker 3: Well, but it makes sense to me not to have

721
00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:48,920
the app because it's more of a friction to register.

722
00:37:49,599 --> 00:37:53,000
Anybody today that sees a snapchain QR code can scan

723
00:37:53,119 --> 00:37:55,880
the code and immediately be very participating in the model.

724
00:37:56,199 --> 00:37:57,440
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, I get it.

725
00:37:58,119 --> 00:38:00,679
Speaker 2: You need a particular kind of customer for this, right

726
00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:04,320
that this is someone who cares about how their data

727
00:38:04,360 --> 00:38:06,280
is uses. Because the non trivial number of people who

728
00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:10,519
just don't care, right, it's an overwhelming problem people talk

729
00:38:10,599 --> 00:38:12,159
about all the time. Lots of will say, yeah, I

730
00:38:12,199 --> 00:38:15,239
care about my privacy, but won't lift a finger to

731
00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:17,639
actually do anything about it. I totally agree.

732
00:38:18,039 --> 00:38:21,159
Speaker 3: The only difference here that I think is different, and

733
00:38:21,199 --> 00:38:26,079
it really talks to the millennials and even anybody under forty,

734
00:38:26,639 --> 00:38:29,480
is the fact that if you participate, you're going to

735
00:38:29,559 --> 00:38:30,039
get paid.

736
00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:32,079
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, I don't know how much of an incentive

737
00:38:32,119 --> 00:38:34,159
that really is not going to be that much money.

738
00:38:34,239 --> 00:38:36,199
I'm more con I think most people would be interested

739
00:38:36,199 --> 00:38:37,960
in just my data not being abused.

740
00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:41,880
Speaker 3: Well, that's fair. There's a new model out called customer

741
00:38:41,920 --> 00:38:44,840
Data platforms, and we're seeing everybody gather this data in

742
00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:49,760
the customer data platforms. There is another company that I

743
00:38:50,039 --> 00:38:53,360
just found, in fact, I saw it yesterday. It's called Rupt,

744
00:38:54,239 --> 00:38:58,400
who does this thing called pods, which allows companies to

745
00:38:58,480 --> 00:39:02,559
store their data, your personal data into a repository called

746
00:39:02,559 --> 00:39:02,960
a pod.

747
00:39:03,159 --> 00:39:05,719
Speaker 2: You know this is this is tim Berner's Lee's solid technology.

748
00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:09,079
Speaker 3: You're guid that into that Internet that introduced internet, right,

749
00:39:09,119 --> 00:39:10,079
that created the Internet.

750
00:39:09,920 --> 00:39:12,760
Speaker 2: That made the world Wide Web world.

751
00:39:13,880 --> 00:39:16,400
Speaker 3: The The problem that I see about that, though, is

752
00:39:16,440 --> 00:39:20,360
your identity is still attached to the data in the pod.

753
00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:23,199
So therefore it becomes an incentive to break into the

754
00:39:23,239 --> 00:39:26,119
pod because once you break into the pod, you gather

755
00:39:26,599 --> 00:39:28,920
all kinds of information about a person with identity.

756
00:39:29,079 --> 00:39:31,159
Speaker 2: That's not how Solid works. Solid they would have a

757
00:39:31,199 --> 00:39:33,760
token to the data, which they may or may not

758
00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:35,960
have rights to, like it's not actually in the pod,

759
00:39:36,039 --> 00:39:38,480
just the token identifier. The whole point of Solid is

760
00:39:38,519 --> 00:39:41,199
your data stays with you, and you only assigned tokens

761
00:39:41,199 --> 00:39:42,079
out for utilization.

762
00:39:42,320 --> 00:39:44,199
Speaker 3: Well, like I said, I found it yesterday, and my

763
00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:47,239
interterpretation of that was different where because I looked for

764
00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:50,920
that specifically and they said the identity and the data

765
00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:54,679
were stored and that in snapchain, I want to use

766
00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:59,239
distributed identity and verifiable credentials to separate identity from the data.

767
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:02,800
So the data that's in the database doesn't have identity

768
00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:07,159
right in Snapchain's model to eliminate that. To have a

769
00:40:07,159 --> 00:40:08,159
take on but yeah.

770
00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:10,079
Speaker 2: You're only you only want to deal with the aggregates

771
00:40:10,119 --> 00:40:12,760
where I mean Solid's real mission there and on include

772
00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:15,079
a link to the Solid project was about how do

773
00:40:15,119 --> 00:40:17,960
I say, how do I give a company my information

774
00:40:18,079 --> 00:40:20,880
to deliver a product to me but not have them

775
00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:23,079
be on their mainly list for forever. So it's literally

776
00:40:23,119 --> 00:40:25,639
like for the duration of this transaction, you have my

777
00:40:25,760 --> 00:40:28,920
address at the end of that transaction, you don't.

778
00:40:29,800 --> 00:40:34,199
Speaker 3: Yeah, And in that regard, snapchain is identical because the

779
00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:37,719
customer is in charge of how much information they allow

780
00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:39,519
the merchant to find them.

781
00:40:39,679 --> 00:40:43,000
Speaker 2: I mean, I would argue just realistically, like giving the

782
00:40:43,039 --> 00:40:45,079
customer a sense of what their data is being used

783
00:40:45,079 --> 00:40:46,679
for would be a hell of an improvement. But I

784
00:40:46,719 --> 00:40:48,760
got one other angle for you, Richard to consider, which

785
00:40:48,800 --> 00:40:52,960
is that personality that kind of customer is also the

786
00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:55,840
one who just wants to remain hilt. Yeah, it's just

787
00:40:55,880 --> 00:40:59,920
going to block their don't block their cookies, use VPN

788
00:41:00,440 --> 00:41:05,400
like disguise themselves. That people that the active members in

789
00:41:05,440 --> 00:41:09,559
this problem space, their primary goal seems to be just

790
00:41:09,760 --> 00:41:10,360
leave me out.

791
00:41:10,519 --> 00:41:13,280
Speaker 1: You know, both of you guys are assuming that people

792
00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:15,880
are a lot more intelligent than they actually are.

793
00:41:16,119 --> 00:41:19,239
Speaker 2: Now, the whole preamble of this, Carl, was that the

794
00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:22,519
customer here is a small segment of folks. Most people

795
00:41:22,679 --> 00:41:23,280
don't care.

796
00:41:23,519 --> 00:41:27,800
Speaker 1: Most people don't care. Yeah, yeah, you're right, okay.

797
00:41:28,119 --> 00:41:30,880
Speaker 3: And most people don't care about their data. Absolutely I

798
00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:33,400
agree with it, because there's no value to them all.

799
00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:36,519
The value for them to putching my terms into Google

800
00:41:36,760 --> 00:41:38,280
is I get the Google product for free.

801
00:41:38,400 --> 00:41:41,199
Speaker 1: All right? So what is the elevator pitch to your

802
00:41:41,239 --> 00:41:43,639
brother in law who you want to sign up and

803
00:41:43,719 --> 00:41:45,599
scan the QR code? What are you going to tell them?

804
00:41:45,599 --> 00:41:46,679
The benefit to them.

805
00:41:46,559 --> 00:41:49,719
Speaker 3: Is save your money, protect your data is the tagline.

806
00:41:49,760 --> 00:41:52,679
Speaker 1: Yeah that's not enough? How much? Well, how much am

807
00:41:52,719 --> 00:41:53,400
I going to get back?

808
00:41:53,480 --> 00:41:55,800
Speaker 3: It all depends on all the various revenue streams that

809
00:41:55,840 --> 00:41:57,079
can be dred from the.

810
00:41:57,159 --> 00:42:02,559
Speaker 1: Dam you lost me. I want to I want a

811
00:42:02,639 --> 00:42:09,159
dollar amount, right, I'm an American consumer over here, and

812
00:42:09,239 --> 00:42:10,920
I want a dollar amount.

813
00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:18,239
Speaker 3: One million as I stick my thinking and I know

814
00:42:19,840 --> 00:42:21,280
I'm not I'm just not that small.

815
00:42:21,519 --> 00:42:21,960
Speaker 1: You're right.

816
00:42:22,079 --> 00:42:25,400
Speaker 3: I mean, this is a theoretical exercise. People got all

817
00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:28,480
as communism, but it's you know, your fire department is

818
00:42:28,840 --> 00:42:29,880
a socialist movement.

819
00:42:29,960 --> 00:42:31,400
Speaker 1: Well that was a department, all right.

820
00:42:31,960 --> 00:42:33,559
Speaker 3: I know, I know, I know it's a joke, but

821
00:42:33,599 --> 00:42:36,000
it's true. But people will take this down because it's

822
00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:39,039
like I'll never work. Okay, I'll never work, but what

823
00:42:39,119 --> 00:42:39,840
a job?

824
00:42:39,920 --> 00:42:40,360
Speaker 1: Say? Once?

825
00:42:40,400 --> 00:42:42,360
Speaker 3: You know it takes the crazy people to change to

826
00:42:42,400 --> 00:42:43,239
make crazy happen.

827
00:42:43,400 --> 00:42:45,239
Speaker 1: I think it's a great idea. I just think that

828
00:42:45,800 --> 00:42:49,239
in order to get you know, cousin Joe to to

829
00:42:49,239 --> 00:42:53,480
to to enlist or whatever, you have to give him

830
00:42:53,519 --> 00:42:55,039
a hard benefit.

831
00:42:55,719 --> 00:42:59,760
Speaker 3: Right, Okay, so let's do let's take this one angle.

832
00:43:00,639 --> 00:43:01,960
Let's go to the influencers.

833
00:43:02,000 --> 00:43:02,320
Speaker 1: All right.

834
00:43:02,360 --> 00:43:04,920
Speaker 3: I wrote a whole book on this about influencers, right,

835
00:43:05,679 --> 00:43:09,440
and how do influencers monetize their audience? And right now

836
00:43:09,480 --> 00:43:12,360
they do it with advertising and branding, which is what

837
00:43:12,440 --> 00:43:15,679
I call a negative feedback loop. But if I am,

838
00:43:16,480 --> 00:43:19,800
and I'm particularly interested in your guys product your perspective,

839
00:43:19,800 --> 00:43:23,719
because you guys are both influencers. Right, So if you

840
00:43:23,880 --> 00:43:26,679
say product X is the greatest product I know of,

841
00:43:26,800 --> 00:43:29,320
go get it. But while you're shopping and picking it

842
00:43:29,400 --> 00:43:32,079
up at the local merchant, like somebody like your bars

843
00:43:32,119 --> 00:43:33,840
and new kid like, how many people do you drive

844
00:43:33,920 --> 00:43:35,599
to your your your gigs?

845
00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:36,440
Speaker 2: Carl do?

846
00:43:36,679 --> 00:43:37,960
Speaker 1: How many people do I drive? Oh?

847
00:43:38,719 --> 00:43:40,719
Speaker 2: You're driving people to I know what you mean?

848
00:43:40,840 --> 00:43:41,039
Speaker 1: Yeah?

849
00:43:41,360 --> 00:43:43,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean you're driving traffic to that company.

850
00:43:43,920 --> 00:43:46,800
Speaker 1: So if you're advertising to drive people to the gigs.

851
00:43:46,880 --> 00:43:49,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, So this is called outcome fees.

852
00:43:49,400 --> 00:43:49,559
Speaker 1: Right.

853
00:43:49,960 --> 00:43:52,239
Speaker 3: So if I stuck a QR code on your stage

854
00:43:52,239 --> 00:43:54,320
and people came up and scanned it to say, this

855
00:43:54,360 --> 00:43:58,239
is for the benefit of Carl. Now the merchant understands

856
00:43:58,320 --> 00:44:01,000
what Carl's activity was and how how much influence you

857
00:44:01,079 --> 00:44:03,039
had to drive customers into activity.

858
00:44:03,079 --> 00:44:05,159
Speaker 1: Right, But what's the benefit to them? Right?

859
00:44:05,280 --> 00:44:07,159
Speaker 3: The benefit to them is they have got a customer

860
00:44:07,199 --> 00:44:09,519
in their store. They got a customer in the bar.

861
00:44:09,880 --> 00:44:13,440
Speaker 1: I'm talking about somebody who I'm talking about, somebody who

862
00:44:13,519 --> 00:44:16,440
comes up and is at one of my gigs. Incentive

863
00:44:16,480 --> 00:44:20,360
to scan the QR code can't just be because it

864
00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:21,400
will benefit Carl.

865
00:44:21,639 --> 00:44:24,360
Speaker 3: Sure it will. They love you, Yeah, but they'd rather

866
00:44:24,679 --> 00:44:25,639
daily to go see you.

867
00:44:26,239 --> 00:44:28,320
Speaker 1: They'd rather take out a ten dollars bill and throw

868
00:44:28,320 --> 00:44:29,239
out my guitar case.

869
00:44:29,639 --> 00:44:31,480
Speaker 3: Well, that may be true, just easier what.

870
00:44:31,480 --> 00:44:34,239
Speaker 1: A q QR code. I don't even know what that does,

871
00:44:34,320 --> 00:44:37,079
onlygo are you gonna send me some virus something?

872
00:44:37,159 --> 00:44:37,840
Speaker 3: That may be true.

873
00:44:37,920 --> 00:44:39,079
Speaker 2: This is the idea.

874
00:44:39,280 --> 00:44:42,000
Speaker 3: If they go to that bar continuously after your shoal

875
00:44:42,960 --> 00:44:45,079
and they see Carl's QR code and they scan it

876
00:44:45,079 --> 00:44:48,639
every time, they're contributing to your influence because it's your

877
00:44:48,679 --> 00:44:50,880
influence that got them to go to that merchant location.

878
00:44:51,159 --> 00:44:54,320
Yeah okay, And it's a way to track influence without

879
00:44:54,360 --> 00:44:56,719
taking advertising or branding dollars.

880
00:44:56,400 --> 00:44:58,800
Speaker 1: As long as you can give them something in return, right,

881
00:44:58,880 --> 00:45:02,679
I mean, yeah, a CD, a free MP three file,

882
00:45:02,840 --> 00:45:04,119
something like that. I don't know.

883
00:45:04,239 --> 00:45:06,639
Speaker 3: And they say like that, when you scan a QR code,

884
00:45:06,679 --> 00:45:09,119
there has to be some value to the customer.

885
00:45:09,239 --> 00:45:11,679
Speaker 1: Yeah for scanning, scan the QR code and we'll send

886
00:45:11,719 --> 00:45:14,800
you links to all of our music. That kind of stuff. Sure.

887
00:45:14,960 --> 00:45:15,840
Speaker 2: Yeah.

888
00:45:16,079 --> 00:45:18,440
Speaker 1: Can I just talk about influencers for a while, because

889
00:45:18,559 --> 00:45:22,039
Richard and I lived through the golden age of podcasting

890
00:45:22,199 --> 00:45:25,719
and maybe some people would argue that it's happening now,

891
00:45:26,559 --> 00:45:29,320
but no, I don't think so, at least for us.

892
00:45:29,519 --> 00:45:33,440
We were literally one of the first podcasts ever and

893
00:45:33,559 --> 00:45:37,320
certainly the longest monetized podcast and when there was no competition,

894
00:45:37,440 --> 00:45:41,639
life was really good advertising wise, and then you know,

895
00:45:41,840 --> 00:45:44,920
it's sort of just dwindled down, and now it's I mean,

896
00:45:44,920 --> 00:45:47,000
we barely make enough. I don't mind saying this. We

897
00:45:47,079 --> 00:45:50,119
barely make enough to pay the editor, right, I mean

898
00:45:50,159 --> 00:45:52,719
we don't. We're not really making money here. We do

899
00:45:52,800 --> 00:45:56,199
this because we love to do it. Furthermore, we're we're

900
00:45:56,239 --> 00:45:59,159
not pushing products that we don't believe in in our ads.

901
00:46:00,280 --> 00:46:03,760
Uh Okay, I can't say that we're not We're not

902
00:46:03,840 --> 00:46:06,039
doing that. I can say that, but we also have

903
00:46:06,199 --> 00:46:10,159
been on a platform that requires us to put ads in.

904
00:46:10,440 --> 00:46:13,000
If you probably heard the show later, you've heard those.

905
00:46:14,079 --> 00:46:17,639
But what I'm saying is, you know, we don't do

906
00:46:17,760 --> 00:46:22,440
the show so that we can make ad revenue, you know,

907
00:46:22,559 --> 00:46:25,280
to line our pockets and make a lot of money.

908
00:46:25,480 --> 00:46:30,000
Like and I think that as I see celebrities now,

909
00:46:30,360 --> 00:46:35,519
you know, aging into more infomercial roles and you know,

910
00:46:35,760 --> 00:46:39,280
trying to push products and stuff like that, it's just

911
00:46:39,480 --> 00:46:40,239
kind of sad.

912
00:46:40,559 --> 00:46:43,920
Speaker 2: You know, well, you missed the best influencer revenue generator

913
00:46:43,960 --> 00:46:51,000
them all. Scam coins. Okay, educate me exactly what you

914
00:46:51,039 --> 00:46:53,199
think it is. You create a crypto coin that you

915
00:46:53,280 --> 00:46:55,400
pump up with hypes that everybody buys in, and then

916
00:46:55,440 --> 00:46:58,119
you sell all the ords before it dumps. Yes, it's

917
00:46:58,119 --> 00:47:02,280
a classic pump and dump. Its multi level marketing, right. Yeah,

918
00:47:02,320 --> 00:47:04,000
you tell two friends, and you tell two friends in

919
00:47:04,039 --> 00:47:04,920
the first place, I think.

920
00:47:04,880 --> 00:47:07,119
Speaker 1: At the top end of the of the scale, like

921
00:47:07,159 --> 00:47:11,599
the people who have you know, YouTube shows that are

922
00:47:11,840 --> 00:47:14,679
have you know, bazillions of views and they sell a lot.

923
00:47:14,760 --> 00:47:17,679
They get a lot of advertising revenue from YouTube typically

924
00:47:17,760 --> 00:47:22,360
they're like into shock value. Then you know they're they're

925
00:47:22,400 --> 00:47:26,679
they're saying outrageous things, they're doing outrageous things, and it's

926
00:47:26,719 --> 00:47:31,079
not at all beneficial to humanity, not at all. It's

927
00:47:31,119 --> 00:47:36,119
not even beneficial to the social good. It's beneficial to

928
00:47:36,280 --> 00:47:39,639
them and the people watch it because they slow down

929
00:47:39,679 --> 00:47:41,480
in an accident for the same reason. Do you know

930
00:47:41,519 --> 00:47:41,960
what I mean?

931
00:47:42,119 --> 00:47:44,239
Speaker 3: Yeah, I totally get it.

932
00:47:44,280 --> 00:47:45,800
Speaker 1: But and it's really freaking sad.

933
00:47:46,639 --> 00:47:47,239
Speaker 2: And it is.

934
00:47:47,159 --> 00:47:49,239
Speaker 3: Sad, which is why I want to do something about it.

935
00:47:49,840 --> 00:47:51,079
I want to do something.

936
00:47:50,760 --> 00:47:53,320
Speaker 1: Waves with this stuff so you can't find the really

937
00:47:53,360 --> 00:47:55,199
good stuff when you go looking for it.

938
00:47:55,880 --> 00:47:58,239
Speaker 3: I want to be able to form people into communities

939
00:47:58,280 --> 00:48:02,000
that benefit from each other. Yeah, not just some person

940
00:48:02,039 --> 00:48:04,239
that's you know, screaming at their houses on fire and

941
00:48:04,599 --> 00:48:08,760
whaling because her ten million dollar house. Can she's suddenly

942
00:48:08,800 --> 00:48:11,320
lost her ten million house, which I feel for sure great,

943
00:48:11,360 --> 00:48:14,239
like anybody you lose any house, it's bad. But put

944
00:48:14,239 --> 00:48:17,719
her on social media and like, it's sad, it's sad

945
00:48:17,760 --> 00:48:20,800
that we have to pay attention to this without and

946
00:48:21,239 --> 00:48:25,440
they contribute. They get so much from that that endeavor,

947
00:48:25,679 --> 00:48:29,960
Like any influencer will they get addicted to that, right.

948
00:48:30,039 --> 00:48:33,280
Speaker 1: Did you read the book Influencer? And I don't remember

949
00:48:33,320 --> 00:48:36,400
who wrote it, but I read it twenty years ago.

950
00:48:36,960 --> 00:48:39,000
It was actually Eileen Crane who sent it to us

951
00:48:39,119 --> 00:48:41,960
Richard as regional directors back in the day. Yeah, And

952
00:48:42,000 --> 00:48:44,480
it was stories of people who made a difference. And

953
00:48:44,559 --> 00:48:47,800
it wasn't that they had economic success making a difference,

954
00:48:47,840 --> 00:48:51,480
but they were really influential and changed the world. And

955
00:48:51,559 --> 00:48:53,400
believe it or not, one of them was Jimmy Carter.

956
00:48:54,559 --> 00:48:56,639
And you probably heard if you've been watching the news

957
00:48:56,679 --> 00:48:59,199
and the funeral and people doing speeches, you've probably heard

958
00:48:59,239 --> 00:49:03,039
about what he did with guinea worm, which was a

959
00:49:03,079 --> 00:49:07,599
disease that was caused by people, mostly in Africa, going

960
00:49:07,639 --> 00:49:11,480
and getting water from a pond which had these guinea

961
00:49:11,519 --> 00:49:14,480
worm larvae in it and then either drinking it or

962
00:49:14,679 --> 00:49:18,119
bathing in it or putting it on wounds or whatever.

963
00:49:19,039 --> 00:49:22,320
And it was perpetuating this guinea worm. And he basically

964
00:49:22,360 --> 00:49:25,559
taught them, you know, he takes some pantyhose and strain

965
00:49:25,679 --> 00:49:28,599
the water through it and then you can drink it

966
00:49:28,679 --> 00:49:30,639
and then you can do what you want with it.

967
00:49:31,440 --> 00:49:35,320
But guinea worm tunnels itself out through your skin and

968
00:49:35,400 --> 00:49:38,559
it's absolutely horrible and painful. And what people would do

969
00:49:39,199 --> 00:49:41,679
is they would have these outbreaks and then they would

970
00:49:41,719 --> 00:49:44,039
go to the pond and then they would you know,

971
00:49:44,119 --> 00:49:47,639
cool it off with the water, thus adding more guinea

972
00:49:47,679 --> 00:49:51,559
worm larvae to the water and perpetuating the cycle. And

973
00:49:51,599 --> 00:49:55,119
he basically saw this and just started an education campaign

974
00:49:55,559 --> 00:50:00,920
and he eradicated guinea worm. He did. Wow, Jimmy Carter. Yeah,

975
00:50:00,960 --> 00:50:03,159
so the next time you, you know, you think about

976
00:50:03,280 --> 00:50:06,400
having to you know, stay in line and every other

977
00:50:06,480 --> 00:50:09,760
day in the gas line in the seventies, Yeah, that sucked.

978
00:50:10,079 --> 00:50:12,639
And not sure what he could have done about it,

979
00:50:12,760 --> 00:50:15,360
but maybe he could have. But but he did a

980
00:50:15,360 --> 00:50:18,280
lot of stuff like he was a true influencer in

981
00:50:18,320 --> 00:50:22,280
the very biggest sense of the word. So I appreciate

982
00:50:22,320 --> 00:50:25,800
the lofty goals of your of your endeavor here, Richard.

983
00:50:26,840 --> 00:50:31,079
I just I want to know how you know you

984
00:50:31,159 --> 00:50:37,719
can you can get it through the veil of selfishness

985
00:50:37,800 --> 00:50:41,559
that the American consumer has wrapped themselves in. Yeah.

986
00:50:41,679 --> 00:50:45,880
Speaker 3: I totally agree. I am an idealistic person and I

987
00:50:45,880 --> 00:50:48,719
think I try to think out of the box. Yeah,

988
00:50:48,760 --> 00:50:51,800
So I do know that today it's not working. It

989
00:50:51,840 --> 00:50:54,159
doesn't work for anybody except for the corporate giants and

990
00:50:54,199 --> 00:50:56,000
the tech giants. You know, they take our data and

991
00:50:56,039 --> 00:50:57,440
they use it and they do whatever they want to

992
00:50:57,440 --> 00:50:57,760
do with it.

993
00:50:57,880 --> 00:50:58,079
Speaker 1: Yep.

994
00:50:58,320 --> 00:51:01,239
Speaker 3: And we have to have more quality in terms of

995
00:51:01,280 --> 00:51:04,800
that revenue generation, I agree, in our society or we're

996
00:51:04,840 --> 00:51:09,599
gonna you know, we're gonna the feudal lords of medieval

997
00:51:09,639 --> 00:51:13,159
times died because the pitchworks came out. And there's somebody

998
00:51:13,199 --> 00:51:15,519
that talks about the pitch When the pitchforks come out, yep,

999
00:51:15,559 --> 00:51:17,800
you know, we're all going to be in trouble. And

1000
00:51:17,920 --> 00:51:20,239
trust me that pitchforks are coming right.

1001
00:51:20,800 --> 00:51:22,840
Speaker 1: By the way they have come out.

1002
00:51:23,519 --> 00:51:27,679
Speaker 2: They have literally Hey, before we wrap up to I

1003
00:51:27,719 --> 00:51:31,559
want to d d besmirched pooral Jimmy Carter because he

1004
00:51:31,639 --> 00:51:33,960
wasn't president ntil nineteen seventy seven and the oil embargo

1005
00:51:34,039 --> 00:51:37,960
was nineteen seventy three. That was Nixon and then Ford. Yeah.

1006
00:51:38,119 --> 00:51:41,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, like most presidents, they they take the blame for

1007
00:51:41,039 --> 00:51:45,039
what happened before they took office. Yeah, yeah, too bad.

1008
00:51:45,199 --> 00:51:45,880
It's too bad.

1009
00:51:46,000 --> 00:51:48,119
Speaker 3: Well, I really appreciate you guys taking on the show.

1010
00:51:48,159 --> 00:51:51,480
It's not quite a technical shot. I was going for

1011
00:51:51,519 --> 00:51:52,880
the more ethical data management.

1012
00:51:52,920 --> 00:51:55,480
Speaker 2: It's definitely but there's definitely a technology here in a

1013
00:51:55,599 --> 00:51:57,920
data privacy issue here, Like these are all topics on

1014
00:51:57,960 --> 00:52:00,199
the show, absolutely, and you are trying to you know,

1015
00:52:00,199 --> 00:52:01,880
we've got a problem with the way data is being

1016
00:52:02,039 --> 00:52:04,559
you know, this all really started because we wouldn't pay

1017
00:52:04,599 --> 00:52:06,679
for stuff on the internet the first place, right, And

1018
00:52:07,440 --> 00:52:10,400
so they came, they came up with strategy. They they

1019
00:52:10,400 --> 00:52:14,440
eventually discovered the strategy, Hey, your telemetry, your digital effluent

1020
00:52:14,559 --> 00:52:19,519
is valuable. So yeah, what if we never did charge

1021
00:52:19,599 --> 00:52:22,639
for you for this product, so you'll just keep using it? Right,

1022
00:52:22,719 --> 00:52:24,119
Like there was a time when they wanted you to

1023
00:52:24,159 --> 00:52:26,199
pay for search, just people wouldn't pay for search.

1024
00:52:26,960 --> 00:52:30,000
Speaker 1: And we have a phrase that we always say, which is, hey,

1025
00:52:30,039 --> 00:52:33,079
if the product's free, you are the product product.

1026
00:52:33,159 --> 00:52:36,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, so this is my little attempt to kind of

1027
00:52:36,280 --> 00:52:37,320
flip the tables on that.

1028
00:52:37,480 --> 00:52:39,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's great and say, you know.

1029
00:52:39,840 --> 00:52:43,039
Speaker 3: We we can do it together, right, We can and

1030
00:52:43,159 --> 00:52:47,440
certainly can take the customer perspective on capitalism, not the

1031
00:52:47,480 --> 00:52:51,880
merchant's perspective. And we're here to help the customer get

1032
00:52:51,920 --> 00:52:58,119
a better experience, not the shareholders, which is the alumni ILLUMINII.

1033
00:52:58,960 --> 00:52:59,320
Speaker 2: Thank you.

1034
00:53:00,880 --> 00:53:02,719
Speaker 3: Of where the pitchworks are aimed.

1035
00:53:02,599 --> 00:53:04,559
Speaker 1: Right well, and it also in the end helps the

1036
00:53:04,599 --> 00:53:05,920
merchants too, so.

1037
00:53:06,119 --> 00:53:09,360
Speaker 3: It does it you know that revenue is diversified across

1038
00:53:09,400 --> 00:53:12,800
a whole wide range of merchants, each providing a service

1039
00:53:12,840 --> 00:53:15,079
that is local to your environment, near your community.

1040
00:53:15,199 --> 00:53:16,840
Speaker 1: Very good, well, I wish you good luck with that.

1041
00:53:17,000 --> 00:53:18,519
And what's the website again?

1042
00:53:19,039 --> 00:53:21,800
Speaker 3: The Empowered Customer dot Com is the landing page and

1043
00:53:21,840 --> 00:53:23,519
from there that you can go all kinds of links.

1044
00:53:23,519 --> 00:53:25,440
There's a whole bunch of social media posts on there.

1045
00:53:25,480 --> 00:53:30,159
I'm trying to I'm trying to be the most social influencer,

1046
00:53:30,239 --> 00:53:33,119
right kad alick guy, So you know I'm doing my best.

1047
00:53:33,760 --> 00:53:37,440
Speaker 1: Good And I still haven't heard from Larry Lestig if

1048
00:53:37,440 --> 00:53:40,119
we're going to do a code in the castle next year,

1049
00:53:40,280 --> 00:53:43,519
but if we do have any suggestions, go back to

1050
00:53:43,559 --> 00:53:46,119
the same place or the same castle, or you have

1051
00:53:46,159 --> 00:53:48,559
any other where he was thinking about the South of France.

1052
00:53:49,159 --> 00:53:51,199
Speaker 3: Maybe yeah, I would say the South of France is

1053
00:53:51,239 --> 00:53:54,199
a great place. But I would also say that he

1054
00:53:54,280 --> 00:53:57,320
can reduce the pricing of the of the experience by

1055
00:53:58,079 --> 00:54:02,360
driving traffic to those merchants that we attended to in Italy, right,

1056
00:54:02,480 --> 00:54:05,400
like it wasn't just us going to the Colden Castle.

1057
00:54:05,440 --> 00:54:08,719
It was us as a group of consumers driving to

1058
00:54:08,800 --> 00:54:12,559
all those different merchants. And my advice to his model is,

1059
00:54:12,599 --> 00:54:15,400
and I've talked to him about this, get these merchants

1060
00:54:15,400 --> 00:54:17,960
involved so that they can see how much traffic you're

1061
00:54:18,000 --> 00:54:20,880
generating to them, because it's just not coding the castle.

1062
00:54:21,440 --> 00:54:23,840
If people who hear it on Colden Castle tell their friends,

1063
00:54:23,880 --> 00:54:26,239
and they tell to friends, then all those people are

1064
00:54:26,239 --> 00:54:27,480
going to be going to those merchants.

1065
00:54:27,559 --> 00:54:32,519
Speaker 1: Yeah right, very good. And we know that those those

1066
00:54:32,559 --> 00:54:35,239
customers have money because they can afford to go to

1067
00:54:35,280 --> 00:54:35,760
code in the.

1068
00:54:35,719 --> 00:54:38,840
Speaker 2: Castle, had mondy had Bundy.

1069
00:54:39,000 --> 00:54:42,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, they had money. Right, they're going to spend some

1070
00:54:42,599 --> 00:54:44,440
ching in your wine store.

1071
00:54:45,239 --> 00:54:48,159
Speaker 2: Well that's where the then actually that's one last point.

1072
00:54:48,519 --> 00:54:51,559
Speaker 3: Snapchin came from the snap of a camera and the

1073
00:54:51,840 --> 00:54:55,679
ching of a cash register. Oh, snap ching, snapching.

1074
00:54:56,239 --> 00:54:58,519
Speaker 1: Very good, Richard. It's been a pleasure talking to you,

1075
00:54:58,519 --> 00:54:59,480
and I hope to see as soon.

1076
00:54:59,760 --> 00:55:02,119
Speaker 3: Ye Take care, guys, appreciate your time, all right, and.

1077
00:55:02,119 --> 00:55:23,679
Speaker 1: We'll talk to you next time on dot net rocks.

1078
00:55:17,239 --> 00:55:28,719
Dot net Rocks is brought to you by Franklin's Net

1079
00:55:28,840 --> 00:55:32,800
and produced by Pop Studios. A full service audio, video

1080
00:55:32,880 --> 00:55:36,960
and post production facility located physically in New London, Connecticut,

1081
00:55:37,199 --> 00:55:42,000
and of course in the cloud online at pwop dot com.

1082
00:55:42,199 --> 00:55:44,360
Visit our website at d O T N E t

1083
00:55:44,559 --> 00:55:48,599
R O c k S dot com for RSS feeds, downloads,

1084
00:55:48,760 --> 00:55:52,440
mobile apps, comments, and access to the full archives going

1085
00:55:52,480 --> 00:55:55,840
back to show number one, recorded in September two thousand

1086
00:55:55,880 --> 00:55:58,519
and two. And make sure you check out our sponsors.

1087
00:55:58,679 --> 00:56:01,480
They keep us in business. Now go write some code.

1088
00:56:02,079 --> 00:56:05,960
See you next time. You got tread middle vans now

1089
00:56:06,079 --> 00:56:11,800
the summer time that means home.

1090
00:56:12,280 --> 00:56:14,800
Speaker 3: Then my Texas a lie Reddit b