Speaker 1: Here he comes out, hunk. He's like, you know, give me,
Speaker 1: give me anybody. I'll take anybody on and uh, you
Speaker 1: know the end of the look at his face is like,
Speaker 1: oh shit.
Speaker 2: It's the Golden Age. I'll tell you me tongue.
Speaker 3: Rocha then like the fantasy.
Speaker 2: Sat in the Rafield History the gold.
Speaker 3: And tell me Dewie.
Speaker 2: From Megabucks to the Mega Powers A SummerSlam nineteen eighty eight,
Speaker 2: right here on the Golden Era Podcast with Sean Mooney, Sean,
Speaker 2: where is your little, you know, little dab of cream
Speaker 2: to make sure you don't burn at the beach?
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, well I'll tell you where I am. You
Speaker 1: always need but yeah, out.
Speaker 3: In Arizona we would be eighty degrees here next week.
Speaker 3: But yeah.
Speaker 1: It was definitely warm at Madison Square Garden in nineteen
Speaker 1: eighty eight for US Summer a Slam, and it was
Speaker 1: It's special to me, as you know, Steve, this was
Speaker 1: my first pay per view event. I hadn't been with
Speaker 1: a company very long. I'd kind of gotten my feet
Speaker 1: wet as they say that, you know, in the event center,
Speaker 1: performing horribly. I was trying to figure out this business
Speaker 1: at the time, and I remember I was a wreck
Speaker 1: going into this.
Speaker 3: I mean, come on, you're not too long before that.
Speaker 1: I was barely on TV and then here I'd been,
Speaker 1: you know, I'd been a fire hose of you know,
Speaker 1: learning and trying to take it all in. And then
Speaker 1: you're going to be going to Madison Square Garden and
Speaker 1: it's not it's it's a it's live right going out
Speaker 1: to all these people. So I I and I wasn't
Speaker 1: really privy to what was going to be going on
Speaker 1: in this thing. I knew the matches and that kind
Speaker 1: of thing, but I didn't know what my place would be.
Speaker 3: And too had some pretty good.
Speaker 1: Interviews as far as what you that they trusted me
Speaker 1: to do, especially with the Ultimate Warrior as we'll talk about,
Speaker 1: but it was it was special to me for a
Speaker 1: number of reasons, and certainly at the top of that
Speaker 1: is that, you know, this is where I was really
Speaker 1: put to the test and could I could I do it?
Speaker 1: So yeah, this is And then and for the company too,
Speaker 1: I mean there was a lot going on at the time.
Speaker 1: They already established some of these big events, but to
Speaker 1: add this one and and do it in New York City,
Speaker 1: I knew it was very important events as well they
Speaker 1: wanted to see. It wasn't in anybody's mind thinking it
Speaker 1: was going to be a one off. I really think
Speaker 1: you know, everybody knew, Okay, you know, we're doing this,
Speaker 1: and now we're going to have it was like seasonal
Speaker 1: became seasonal. We had these events, you know, WrestleMania would
Speaker 1: kind of be the way it would all come together
Speaker 1: at the end of whatever that see that we begin again.
Speaker 2: I guess springtime, right, yeah.
Speaker 1: Royal Rumble and all the you know, as we started
Speaker 1: to have those, and it's funny today because they.
Speaker 3: Have them every month.
Speaker 1: Back then, it just seemed that we just finished one
Speaker 1: and I, oh my, oh my god, I'm going to
Speaker 1: start this other one. So but it was a really
Speaker 1: exciting times, especially in the world professional wrestling and what
Speaker 1: Vince McMahon was doing. And but as we saw in
Speaker 1: this one, there was still a lot of rough edges,
Speaker 1: which we'll get into.
Speaker 2: Yes, that was the first thing I noticed when I
Speaker 2: was watching on this because it's the opening of SummerSlam
Speaker 2: and you see virtual counting money and it's very very
Speaker 2: crude editing of the megabudget of the Mega Powers in
Speaker 2: them kind of doing their thing flexing counting money Andre
Speaker 2: looking strong. But when you have commentary like Gorilla Monson
Speaker 2: and Superstar Billy Graham, it really stands out to me
Speaker 2: as a wrestling fan because you're like, I don't recall
Speaker 2: this group. You always remember Gorilla or Jesse. This is
Speaker 2: a different one. Now. You personally worked with Superstar Billy
Speaker 2: Graham on a few events. What was your personal relationship
Speaker 2: like with him? But would you think of him being
Speaker 2: on the first Summer Slam doing commentary because that's like
Speaker 2: a Trivia night question later on if you're going to go.
Speaker 1: Out, yeah that you know, Superstar and I work together
Speaker 1: more than I mean a lot of events along with Alfred.
Speaker 1: We were, you know, a three man team that would
Speaker 1: regularly do the Garden shows. And when I say that
Speaker 1: Madison Square Garden, that we'd also do Boston and we
Speaker 1: would go up there and do these events. And I
Speaker 1: really loved the Superstar he was was really gracious to me,
Speaker 1: very you know, good helping me, you know, become educated.
Speaker 1: And you know, at that point in time, he was
Speaker 1: pretty broken down.
Speaker 3: I mean he was later in his career.
Speaker 1: He wasn't going into the ring, and I I just
Speaker 1: remember that he had a lot of hip issues at
Speaker 1: you know, he was walking around with a cane and
Speaker 1: you know, had mobile issues getting getting around. But as
Speaker 1: far as you know, working together, he was great. I
Speaker 1: really loved him. And but as far as as a
Speaker 1: commentator goes, he was he was pretty much that real
Speaker 1: old school where you just you would just pump in
Speaker 1: and you know, like, oh, that was a great whatever
Speaker 1: it is, you know, and instead of providing some layers
Speaker 1: or or some you know, levity to it, or you know,
Speaker 1: going more than that. And so I think you look
Speaker 1: back there and I think he got a lot of
Speaker 1: criticism for his his commentary because I think it was
Speaker 1: kind of that feel of, you know, the old TV
Speaker 1: studio kind of commentary. And this was before I remember,
Speaker 1: this is before the announced teams really started to you know,
Speaker 1: work together. As far as Jesse and Vince becoming what
Speaker 1: I always thought, and I've said it before, a very
Speaker 1: good team together. I love that dynamic between them and
Speaker 1: the banter and Jesse being able to put the boots
Speaker 1: to Vince all the time, and and and that he
Speaker 1: could you know, switch gears or there would be it
Speaker 1: was a different dynamic between him and Gorilla. And then
Speaker 1: eventually we would see that the team of Gorilla and Bobby,
Speaker 1: which to me, you know, nothing really compares. But that
Speaker 1: wasn't really you know, Bobby's gig, main thing going and
Speaker 1: had not really established himself as what he would become
Speaker 1: with his value to the w WE. So there they're
Speaker 1: still experimenting and uh, you know, uh, Vince, this was
Speaker 1: a really special event to him. I don't think he
Speaker 1: wanted to be necessarily featured as the as the main
Speaker 1: commentator for it, and so that's how that team came together. Uh,
Speaker 1: Gorilla and Superstar had worked together before, and other things
Speaker 1: you know that maybe weren't necessarily uh you know, big
Speaker 1: fanfare or where they've got a lot of play for it.
Speaker 3: But yeah, it was it wasn't to me, it wasn't
Speaker 3: terrible by any stretch.
Speaker 1: Uh. You know, Superster could do, could do, you know,
Speaker 1: great calling matches. It's just that we were we were
Speaker 1: already starting to see this transition to what announced teams
Speaker 1: would become at the WWE, and that matchup was really
Speaker 1: was definitely old school. So you really did have that
Speaker 1: feel that you know, the old TV studio or very
Speaker 1: small arena with the with the metal chairs, you know, so.
Speaker 3: That's kind of the.
Speaker 1: Way I felt about it. It was it wasn't terrible,
Speaker 1: but it certainly wasn't. I mean, I didn't I didn't
Speaker 1: see Superstar becoming you know, part of this, you know
Speaker 1: this group that we were going to continue to use
Speaker 1: all the time.
Speaker 2: You know, Yeah, Vin'ce loved bringing wrestlers randomly and Bruce
Speaker 2: commentary for a little while. Obviously you had Macha Man,
Speaker 2: Piper the Anvil, Hockey talk Man, Sean Michaels and ninety four,
Speaker 2: Like there's always a group of wrestlers he just brings
Speaker 2: in randomly. I think, because if they're so good at talking,
Speaker 2: they should be good at talking about other wrestlers. But
Speaker 2: sometimes I think it's more difficult to discussed someone else's
Speaker 2: attributes than yourself. Obviously, you can put yourself over. When
Speaker 2: you have to talk about other people on commentary, it's
Speaker 2: very different. And I want to say something too, is
Speaker 2: he doesn't get enough credit Superstar Billy Graham. That is
Speaker 2: because you listen to the way he speaks, you hear
Speaker 2: so many different wrestlers like wait a minute, oh, wait
Speaker 2: a minute, the way he's phrasing words, using daddy, the
Speaker 2: way he's speaking and saying brother like, dude, all the
Speaker 2: greats borrowed or stole, depending how you look at it,
Speaker 2: from Superstar Billy Graham.
Speaker 1: Yes, absolutely, and he was also uh in you know,
Speaker 1: Hulked many times credited Superstar Billy Graham as one of
Speaker 1: the biggest influences. He wanted to be just like him,
Speaker 1: and also Jesse. You know, Jesse was you know, just
Speaker 1: I don't know how at least in the initial beginning
Speaker 1: of his career. He was basically a total knockoff of
Speaker 1: Superstar Billy Graham, but they weren't the only two, You're right.
Speaker 3: Superstar set a standard he and he.
Speaker 1: Was unique really of the first you know, there were
Speaker 1: other muscle men in in uh in wrestling, but nothing
Speaker 1: like what he would do with the you know, the
Speaker 1: tye die and uh and he was already doing the
Speaker 1: kerchiefs and.
Speaker 2: And and his different colors.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, different colors, and and his rap that he had.
Speaker 1: H'm you know, I'm sure Dusty stole some of that too,
Speaker 1: from you know, I mean, they all did, and you're right,
Speaker 1: he never really got the credit that that he deserved.
Speaker 1: As far as you know, he he started an entire different,
Speaker 1: you know lineup of of of wrestlers that would you know,
Speaker 1: take a little piece from watching what he did and
Speaker 1: with his pros and you know the whole posing thing,
Speaker 1: you know, where the Hulkster definitely took that in and
Speaker 1: where it wasn't just you know, you saw muscled guys,
Speaker 1: right who had good physiques and obviously they worked out,
Speaker 1: but then you didn't see these guys that were just
Speaker 1: you know, massively cut with the help of science, as
Speaker 1: I say, to the extreme, but absolutely and you know
Speaker 1: Superstar was was you know, led the way. He was
Speaker 1: a truly unique personality and set the stage for many
Speaker 1: many wrestlers to come and still influence today. I mean
Speaker 1: there there are you know, I'm sure people can go
Speaker 1: back and they look at that stuff and you're going
Speaker 1: to see, you know, a band. He was doing it
Speaker 1: back then and really owned that stage. He paid him
Speaker 1: a terrible price for it because in the end, you know,
Speaker 1: his body was just a wreck. And even when I
Speaker 1: worked with him, you know he had issues because of
Speaker 1: not only the way he performed at the ring, but
Speaker 1: you know from what he put into his body, right.
Speaker 2: Yeah it's true too, but yeah, he know he I's
Speaker 2: a DVD that came out like twenty years ago. Now
Speaker 2: they did a documentary about him. The WWF did that
Speaker 2: is and very well done. And again it really shows
Speaker 2: you that a lot of people borrowed from him, and
Speaker 2: so the other characters took what they got from him,
Speaker 2: they made it bigger and larger. So if anyone saw
Speaker 2: the difference, he'd be like, oh, well, Holman's not copy
Speaker 2: and superstat Billy Graham if anything, And Billy Graham's copy
Speaker 2: and O Coody.
Speaker 3: Doesn't work that way history.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and they and they admitted, I know, you know,
Speaker 1: Jesse's talked about him many times, his influence, and same
Speaker 1: with the whole Sure, that's you know.
Speaker 2: That's what the actors, that's what the actresses, musicians, it's
Speaker 2: it's not like you stole, it's like you were inspired.
Speaker 2: So now you're borrowing from certain people, certain jokes, stand
Speaker 2: up comedians, all that stuff. So it's nothing new, it's
Speaker 2: nothing new in wrestling. This Summer Slim is new. It's
Speaker 2: the first ever Summer Slam headlined by Hulk Hogan, Macho Man,
Speaker 2: Miss Elizabeth, Jesse, Ventour onto the Giant, Lindel the Man
Speaker 2: I Guess Virgil too. So the Mega Bucks versus the
Speaker 2: mega powers. Now this is you gotta get the the
Speaker 2: hen chake. We don't know how to shake you, you know.
Speaker 1: And I and you see these you know, the Baxters.
Speaker 1: Well when they go in the ring and uh, Randy's
Speaker 1: wearing the yellow uh brief whatever you want to call it,
Speaker 1: and you know, with the mega powers of the back.
Speaker 3: And I just can't help but think of that probably
Speaker 3: killed him, you know, because you weren't Hogan. Well it
Speaker 3: was Hogan, it was Histy. He wasn't.
Speaker 1: It wasn't the Halkster coming out with the Big Cape
Speaker 1: or the Bengals or you.
Speaker 3: Know it was and and uh, I'm sure that that
Speaker 3: just was like you know, but necessary.
Speaker 1: Also Randy was the realist and knew when it came
Speaker 1: right down to it, that's that's what they were doing.
Speaker 3: It was the mega powers and uh so.
Speaker 1: But but I I that was one of the first
Speaker 1: things I thought of, that that that must have just
Speaker 1: killed him. It's like that he had to you know,
Speaker 1: that costuming, whatever the whatever they were going to wear,
Speaker 1: it was going to be all Hulkamania themed.
Speaker 2: It certainly was.
Speaker 1: I'll put on the tugs, but I'm not putting on
Speaker 1: the bend I'm not gonna do it.
Speaker 2: Wave his finger. Yeah, this one. I love the fact
Speaker 2: that it's off the back of Hogan, Savage, Mandela Man
Speaker 2: Andre because I want to travel back to WrestleMania three,
Speaker 2: Hogan body Slam and Andre. From that point on, the
Speaker 2: WWF business just goes up. There is no like oh,
Speaker 2: business was doing okay, like no, it becomes a household name.
Speaker 2: We're having wrestling buddies, we got action figures, we have
Speaker 2: video games, board games, workout systems. It's endless in merchandise.
Speaker 2: And that's what Vincent Caama will always get credit for
Speaker 2: for being a promotional machine. But we have to give credit,
Speaker 2: I think to Hogan and Andre. That body Slam led
Speaker 2: to the birth of Surviarvys Series eighty seven, which also
Speaker 2: led to them trying to screw Crockett. But then that
Speaker 2: built up to this double referee situation, WrestleMania fours built
Speaker 2: around Hogan Andre one more time in the ring. Here
Speaker 2: we are again. It's been like six pay per reviews,
Speaker 2: well four pay per views, with them headlining events, selling
Speaker 2: tickets and putting butts in the seats. Can you describe
Speaker 2: to me how important Andre and ho Cogan was to
Speaker 2: just wrestling, but the w business.
Speaker 1: Oh no, no question about it. You know, I think
Speaker 1: if you talk about pinnacle moments that you know, launched
Speaker 1: the WWE to what it would become even today.
Speaker 3: That was a slam heard around the universe. It wasn't
Speaker 3: just I mean.
Speaker 1: It just.
Speaker 3: Changed everything.
Speaker 1: And I can't imagine, you know, two other personalities that
Speaker 1: you could have put into the ring where you could
Speaker 1: have made that happen. People probably you know, you could
Speaker 1: come up with other superstars, other personalities that did great,
Speaker 1: But I you know, I couldn't have seen like a
Speaker 1: Rick Flair in.
Speaker 3: There doing that. You know, it was.
Speaker 1: This Hulka mania and uh and this giant of this
Speaker 1: icon in professional wrestling. They really wonder of the world
Speaker 1: when it came down to it and pulled it off
Speaker 1: perfectly and in front of a crowd like that, just
Speaker 1: everything about it. And you know, Terry would say how
Speaker 1: that slam ruined his body forever he.
Speaker 3: Everybody knows.
Speaker 1: Okay, it's a work and Andre had to cooperate when
Speaker 1: you go up when you weigh five hundred pounds. But
Speaker 1: the Holkster said, you know that that his back was
Speaker 1: a wreck after that and they were working every day
Speaker 1: and never had any time to take care of it.
Speaker 1: But it was worth the price overall when it came
Speaker 1: down to it, because my god, look what happened from
Speaker 1: that point on, and I mean really professional wrestling was
Speaker 1: never the same again. And then you had a promoter
Speaker 1: like Vince McMahon who had that vision, uh, you know,
Speaker 1: the the you think about it. We've all had great
Speaker 1: ideas when we want to do these things, you know, everybody,
Speaker 1: but the obsession and the idea that you know, they
Speaker 1: always say the you know, failure is not an option.
Speaker 1: There's nobody I think on the planet who lived that
Speaker 1: and and made it happen. Then Vince McMahon, I you know,
Speaker 1: look where the business was barely five years even before
Speaker 1: that ten you know, ten years absolutely it was you know,
Speaker 1: the way it was divided up, and you're still seeing
Speaker 1: these small little shows and suddenly it is a world
Speaker 1: event and every and then to have that that foresight,
Speaker 1: that that vision of saying, Okay, this is going to
Speaker 1: happen and then we're going to uh take full advantage
Speaker 1: and then start having not just these house shows across
Speaker 1: the United States, which like how dare you? And then
Speaker 1: then on top of you, We're going to have these
Speaker 1: other more world events taking place four times a year
Speaker 1: where people are going to pay money to have it
Speaker 1: brought to their living room or they're going to go
Speaker 1: down to their favorite pub or whatever it is and
Speaker 1: they get to watch it, like.
Speaker 3: Who does you know? How do you even see that?
Speaker 1: And it's all happening very quickly, within a couple of years,
Speaker 1: and it's it's just incredible to think.
Speaker 3: I remember, you know, being there and thinking like.
Speaker 1: What how do they keep coming up with this stuff
Speaker 1: that we that you know that you can't and being
Speaker 1: in the event center and them bringing all this stuff
Speaker 1: in and these house shows and as we'll talk about
Speaker 1: schedule this event for Summer Slam at Madison Square Garden,
Speaker 1: well sure it was a big event, but nobody realizes
Speaker 1: that in the meantime, all these guys are on the road.
Speaker 1: We've talked about the what the formula was back then
Speaker 1: was that guys, the boys made their living going to
Speaker 1: house shows. They would go and get their percentage of
Speaker 1: what they would make dependent on the gate how many
Speaker 1: people showed up. And as this thing kept getting bigger
Speaker 1: and bigger, those house shows they're doing, you know, twelve
Speaker 1: to sixteen thousand people a night at some of these places.
Speaker 1: So when they're doing they're like, well, we got to
Speaker 1: do more. At one point and I think by the
Speaker 1: time of Summer Slam eighty eight, they were doing three
Speaker 1: tours across the country.
Speaker 3: Now you've got I don't know, maybe.
Speaker 1: Sixty or something superstars, you've that you're that are going around.
Speaker 1: You got an A AT, B and a C tour
Speaker 1: and you're doing shows. You're here, You're in the ring
Speaker 1: probably eight to ten times in a week sometimes, and
Speaker 1: these guys are going and they end up they had
Speaker 1: to be at this pay per view for you know, SummerSlam.
Speaker 1: It was just for them and many it was just
Speaker 1: another house show, a big one.
Speaker 3: But you have to.
Speaker 1: Understand that that that's the way the machine was grinding.
Speaker 1: And Vince knew, you know, maybe in the back of
Speaker 1: his mind he didn't know if there's going to be
Speaker 1: a dip or if this is going to take off,
Speaker 1: it's going to keep going.
Speaker 3: But it was just push push push, push, go go go, and.
Speaker 1: Uh, you know, this was an event and it was
Speaker 1: as I said before going into it, it was like
Speaker 1: they were saying, we'll see how it goes. This is
Speaker 1: already in his head that this is okay, this is
Speaker 1: we're going to be doing four of these a year. Uh.
Speaker 1: And so that wasn't to say, you know, see how
Speaker 1: it does, and and it did really well.
Speaker 3: I mean the numbers on this were great.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I want to bring up that house.
Speaker 3: Show four hundred thousand buys or something.
Speaker 2: Ye, yes, let me just bring up this house she
Speaker 2: brought the house shows. I'll mention it. So the day
Speaker 2: before SummerSlam, Summer sims on a Monday, by the way,
Speaker 2: So the day before it's a weekend. You have Toronto
Speaker 2: A Show, b Show, Montreal, and Sea Show Indiana. So
Speaker 2: all these wrestlers who are on going to be on
Speaker 2: the show on these house shows need to get to
Speaker 2: now New York City the day or the next day
Speaker 2: to make it to SummerSlam. You have Toronto A Show,
Speaker 2: Hogo Versus Bad News, Brown, Montreal B Show, Savage re
Speaker 2: Ass Dino, Bravo, Se Show, Bruce Pecake versus Hercules. Well,
Speaker 2: Brugus was pretty popular.
Speaker 3: There were big names.
Speaker 1: But you know, if you're in a and if you're
Speaker 1: in a small town somewhere, which so those guys have played,
Speaker 1: you know, some of these smaller venues. You're pretty excited
Speaker 1: that Brutus Beefcakes come into town and then Birk So yeah,
Speaker 1: and they and that's the way they played.
Speaker 3: That, you know.
Speaker 1: That, And it was you know, based on uh, you know,
Speaker 1: the whole business was based on a carnival card in
Speaker 1: a sense where if you got on that a tour
Speaker 1: with Hulk, you know, you were one of the top
Speaker 1: superstars and and and because you know if he's there,
Speaker 1: that gate's going to be big and you get a
Speaker 1: piece of that.
Speaker 3: So yeah, you want to be in that tour.
Speaker 1: But at the same time, if you go to these
Speaker 1: uh you know, your these smaller venues and you're they're
Speaker 1: putting four or five thousand people there, that's a hell
Speaker 1: of a lot more of these guys who ever used
Speaker 1: to doing. Many of these guys on those tours, so
Speaker 1: they were happy to be there. And and then you
Speaker 1: would you work your ass off because you'd hope you'd
Speaker 1: get elevated.
Speaker 3: So that's that's kind of the way that work. But
Speaker 3: it was just.
Speaker 1: Exhausting and to go there and then this is a
Speaker 1: huge event, but nobody else knows that you've been on
Speaker 1: the road for three weeks without a day off but
Speaker 1: you got to keep you got to keep finding a
Speaker 1: way to do it and get out there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the circus never stops. The no, keep on keeping going,
Speaker 2: I guess with three circuses going around. But yeah, you
Speaker 2: brought it up. The buyer rates too, is all right?
Speaker 2: This pay per view did four hundred thousand buys. Okay,
Speaker 2: WrestleMania four did four hundred and eighty five thousand buys,
Speaker 2: all right, talk about eighty five thousand different to me,
Speaker 2: that's not but of a dip because we are WrestleMania
Speaker 2: is a non name, a known brand, a commodity some
Speaker 2: of simese brand news, but it's attached to the brand WWF.
Speaker 2: So it really shows you that it doesn't matter right
Speaker 2: now what we do. If we put the w w
Speaker 2: F logo on it, we're gonna make money.
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, And it showed it showed you that people
Speaker 1: were hungry. Uh, it's it's it's funny to think now
Speaker 1: where you would go, Uh, you know, is it going
Speaker 1: to be too much? You know we're going to get
Speaker 1: you know that we need to spread this out more.
Speaker 1: And they quickly found out no, they they'll take everything
Speaker 1: you give them. And that's when they started to take
Speaker 1: full advantage. I'm surprised that they didn't, that that model
Speaker 1: really didn't change for a very long time where they
Speaker 1: didn't do more. But I loved it because it gave
Speaker 1: us an opportunity to really build up these storylines to
Speaker 1: where you got to the point where it's like, I
Speaker 1: gotta have it. You got to give me, I gotta
Speaker 1: see what happens here and and wrap it up and
Speaker 1: then either you know, start some thing that would carry on,
Speaker 1: or you give them the finish and you could move
Speaker 1: on from there. So I thought of the the timing
Speaker 1: of those events and where they were apart were perfect.
Speaker 1: You know, I think that we could really do a
Speaker 1: lot in between. And then of course the machine is
Speaker 1: rolling because all these house shows. Yeah, and it was
Speaker 1: a gigantic promotional tool. Superstars and Challenges said that we
Speaker 1: didn't really ever give anybody anything for free. You got
Speaker 1: to see these guys, but the whole purpose of that
Speaker 1: wasn't necessarily to drive people to pay per view. It
Speaker 1: was to get them to the house shows when we
Speaker 1: came to town and we were everywhere, and no one
Speaker 1: knew that better than me, you know, sitting in that
Speaker 1: chair every day, customizing all of these markets, and I
Speaker 1: just kept thinking, like, how can we how can we
Speaker 1: keep doing this? At one point I think I did.
Speaker 1: It was you know, ninety three different events or that
Speaker 1: we were, you know, cities and stuff that we were
Speaker 1: promoting at one time. You know, they were you know,
Speaker 1: spread out, and remember I told you how I would
Speaker 1: do these, you know.
Speaker 3: Three weeks from tonight or you know, whatever it was.
Speaker 1: But we'd get the you know, and everything was we
Speaker 1: didn't have the computers and they would come over in sheets,
Speaker 1: you know. Howard was in charge of all that and
Speaker 1: kept track of it, and it was overwhelming. It would
Speaker 1: take me four solid days of doing one after another
Speaker 1: of these events just to get caught up, and then
Speaker 1: you know, there would be something else. I'd be shooting
Speaker 1: coliseum or whoever. But it was four solidays in that
Speaker 1: studio doing it over and over and over again, and
Speaker 1: something would happen and then I have to change the
Speaker 1: car or whatever, and then.
Speaker 3: Then we in the.
Speaker 1: Meantime, we'd be plugging an upcoming pay per view, which
Speaker 1: was also part of it.
Speaker 3: So yeah, at the time, it was.
Speaker 1: Here where we're talking, it's eighty eight and uh, it's
Speaker 1: coming together, but we're still ways.
Speaker 3: Away from what the w W would become.
Speaker 1: And it also showed Steve the network influence that you
Speaker 1: started to really see here. And I've spoken before about
Speaker 1: you know, Vince's idea of bringing other people in.
Speaker 3: He wanted our programming to look.
Speaker 1: As good as network sports. That was really important to him.
Speaker 1: And so in any you know, machine would come out
Speaker 1: that did some kind of special effect with you know,
Speaker 1: the video or what they got it, and that was
Speaker 1: an edit one and they had some you know, brilliant people,
Speaker 1: and there Kevin Quinn. I don't know if he's ever
Speaker 1: really been talked about much, but he was his kid,
Speaker 1: uh editor in there, and of course, you know, initially
Speaker 1: it was Kevin Dunn and Larry Rosen was the audio
Speaker 1: guy in there, and it was this small team and
Speaker 1: these guys did all of.
Speaker 3: This and that was it. And I also want to
Speaker 3: wish I want to mention too, we.
Speaker 1: Should mention Kerwin, Sophie's who passed away recently here and
Speaker 1: and uh, you know, Kerwin was the director for for
Speaker 1: decades and never I don't think he ever really got
Speaker 1: the credit for what not only what he did for
Speaker 1: the live events, but Kerwin had a tremendous influence on
Speaker 1: what we did with our other programming as well. And uh,
Speaker 1: just an awesome guy, I mean really and a great
Speaker 1: sense of humor. And he didn't come from the world
Speaker 1: of wrestling. He was another guy that Vince you know,
Speaker 1: brought in and uh didn't have a huge role first
Speaker 1: coming in, but then became essential and would was that
Speaker 1: way for decades. And I really I tried to get
Speaker 1: him on the podcast The Prime Table show me a
Speaker 1: few times.
Speaker 3: I seen it.
Speaker 1: I saw him at whenever I would go to uh,
Speaker 1: you know shows or something that invite me in, I
Speaker 1: always would find him. And because I just love the guy.
Speaker 1: He was great and I would always say, come on,
Speaker 1: you gotta gotta come on. You've got some great stories
Speaker 1: and uh. He he did do some interviews with the
Speaker 1: w W for some of their docs, but he was
Speaker 1: just not comfortable. It's like, you know what I'm done,
Speaker 1: When I'm done, Will will do it. And I just
Speaker 1: regret I never never got him in front of that microphone,
Speaker 1: because you know, we I saw it all happening and uh,
Speaker 1: and and I really wanted to give him credit for
Speaker 1: you know what he did, so but at that time
Speaker 1: it was a very small crew Steve that that put
Speaker 1: this this all together. And my point is that it
Speaker 1: you mentioned the greens, there's a green screen there that
Speaker 1: wasn't sharp.
Speaker 3: Or wherever it's it was.
Speaker 1: It was the the beginnings of really becoming what the
Speaker 1: product would look like. And and I felt at one point,
Speaker 1: I mean, we were they were watching what we were doing.
Speaker 1: The networks were watching what we were doing and copying
Speaker 1: what we were doing at these shows with their opens
Speaker 1: and the excitement that would you know, be generated before
Speaker 1: you went to that opening shot of the arena and
Speaker 1: Howard you know, counting people in to you know, when
Speaker 1: we're going live and that pop. You know, you wouldn't
Speaker 1: do that at a right at a at a football
Speaker 1: in an NFL game or something to work to tell
Speaker 1: the audience show, Okay, we're going live and you know
Speaker 1: five four three.
Speaker 3: But we could do that because people do that.
Speaker 1: You're part of the show, You're part of this, and
Speaker 1: but people, you know, they it added to everything we
Speaker 1: did there those early shows. If you go back and look,
Speaker 1: you know sports was it was always centered on the ring.
Speaker 1: It was kind of you know, the boxing mentality where
Speaker 1: you had everything was focused. The lighting would be on
Speaker 1: the ring, the arena would be dark with the crowd. Well,
Speaker 1: w w E changed all that. Chris Chambers, as you know,
Speaker 1: we're doing episodes with him and backstories, and Chris was
Speaker 1: one of those guys that was in on all these
Speaker 1: innovations that the WWE was doing at the time, and
Speaker 1: and talks about you know the signage. Well, you know
Speaker 1: most at most sporting events, you know, people they don't
Speaker 1: want you to have a sign because you're gonna block
Speaker 1: somebody's view or right, Well they invited it was because
Speaker 1: it was this interaction of bringing the crowd into it.
Speaker 1: So there was so many things going on, and every
Speaker 1: time they did one of these pay per view events,
Speaker 1: we learned something. And as you said, the green screen
Speaker 1: screen was kind of a new technology then it was
Speaker 1: was it?
Speaker 3: It was out there. I did all the events cre
Speaker 3: in green screen.
Speaker 1: Uh yeah, yeah, I'm sorry, sorry, folks, but you say, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's the way it was. It was a green screen.
Speaker 1: I was sitting at a desk and there's this green
Speaker 1: screen behind me, like the weather guide. But it wasn't
Speaker 1: perfected at that point. And so some of those interviews
Speaker 1: with Jeane because he was in a different set I
Speaker 1: was in the real set, the set that was the
Speaker 1: locker room set. So my stuff is going to look
Speaker 1: better because that when you're trying to set that up
Speaker 1: in an arena, you know, and it's to this day.
Speaker 1: When you do green screen, the lighting has to be
Speaker 1: very even.
Speaker 3: It doesn't have to be perfect.
Speaker 1: You can use different kinds of lights in that gut,
Speaker 1: but it has to be even. And if it isn't,
Speaker 1: and you get shadows or wrinkles or something, and when
Speaker 1: they put it in, especially back then, it would tear,
Speaker 1: I guess is the best way to describe it. So
Speaker 1: you would see through it or or be another piece
Speaker 1: of video that would show through it, and it was
Speaker 1: or the edges you'd see, you know, around people's heads
Speaker 1: would be you know this white when when they move.
Speaker 1: It's kind of like those stupid things that people do.
Speaker 3: Now with the.
Speaker 2: Do this now yeah yeah yeah.
Speaker 3: But then yeah yeah right, yeah.
Speaker 1: It's so, but it was it was early technology. There.
Speaker 1: The point I wanted to make is that you know,
Speaker 1: Vince was not just wanted his product to be great.
Speaker 1: You know that people would want to see these guys
Speaker 1: in the ring, that the personalities and the superstars, but the.
Speaker 3: Look of it.
Speaker 1: He wanted to change as well, and that's when he
Speaker 1: was bringing people in from the network, and that's why
Speaker 1: I mentioned that network influence. Well, this was still the
Speaker 1: early days of that, but you can see that things
Speaker 1: were changing and and for the better as far as
Speaker 1: how we how these events took place. And it was
Speaker 1: important because Vince wanted to get rid of that old
Speaker 1: view of you know, seeing stuff in TV studios and
Speaker 1: basically high school type environments and.
Speaker 3: Hell, kbuck in.
Speaker 1: Madison Square Garden packed to the rafters. This was a
Speaker 1: whole new world for professional wrestling fans.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're right, And bring up the green screen for
Speaker 2: a minute where you go to Mean Gene in the
Speaker 2: Megapowers and you know they're ramped up, they're clearly on
Speaker 2: something and they're just having a blast, but each one
Speaker 2: is trying to get the last word in as they're talking.
Speaker 2: And then the green screen is just bleeding out because
Speaker 2: the camp they're two big, So take a wide shot
Speaker 2: you can see the edges of it. It looks I'm sorry,
Speaker 2: but it looks really really bad. And then later on
Speaker 2: when you go the Honky Tonk Man being interviewed before
Speaker 2: his match by me and gene. They did close ups,
Speaker 2: they realized like, okay, that was bleeding. That was a problem.
Speaker 2: We need to fix this. So Hockey got like this
Speaker 2: nice close up MCU of him, so he looked much better.
Speaker 2: So they're learning even on the fly on pay per view,
Speaker 2: going okay, that was bad. That looked really bad. Let's
Speaker 2: fix this. And so but we go to you with
Speaker 2: Opening a Warrior after he wins the Inner Continenthole title. Backstage, Yeah,
Speaker 2: you're just in a locker room, so you have no
Speaker 2: issues with that. I do want to talk about that later,
Speaker 2: but first I want to bring up the itsy bitsy
Speaker 2: teeny weeny yellow Poka Dappa Kini that we were promised
Speaker 2: for weeks and months building to this matchup where Machu
Speaker 2: Man challenge Andre Imlin de Laman for a tag team
Speaker 2: match at Summer Slam. They accept. Obviously, they don't know
Speaker 2: who the partner is going to be because Hogan's away,
Speaker 2: his daughter was just born, he's away filming No Holds Bar,
Speaker 2: so he's not on TV that much. But they report
Speaker 2: that Jock Tunney has announced that Jesse the Body of
Speaker 2: Ra is going to be the special guest referee for
Speaker 2: this matchup because he's the only man who can lay
Speaker 2: down the law for both teams. So I kind of
Speaker 2: want to talk about two things here jessevn Tora. Why
Speaker 2: would he be added to this matchup? I get it, like, oh,
Speaker 2: he is on TV, he's a character. He doesn't like Hogan,
Speaker 2: so will he side with the million Dollar Man like
Speaker 2: another storyline in this matchup? But why do you think
Speaker 2: he needed to be added to just give this match
Speaker 2: more Gaga?
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I think you just said it there, just
Speaker 1: added added to it. And you know there was no
Speaker 1: love lost between the two. And even if you're talking
Speaker 1: about as a work work, you know, Jesse always put
Speaker 1: the boots to the Hulkster, you know as always that
Speaker 1: he wasn't by it comedia and uh so you know, to.
Speaker 3: Have that element in there, and then.
Speaker 1: You know that well, you know, Jesse has been in
Speaker 1: the ring, and so he knows all the tricks of
Speaker 1: the trade here and he might pull some fast you know,
Speaker 1: uh Shenanigan's here and and knowing Jesse, he'll be able
Speaker 1: to justify it somehow because he always did when in
Speaker 1: his commentary.
Speaker 3: So and and also.
Speaker 1: Vince putting Jesse over whether whether or not you know,
Speaker 1: I think it was begrudgingly because I think you know, personally,
Speaker 1: you know, it was always business to Vince, But at
Speaker 1: the same time it drove him crazy that Jesse kind
Speaker 1: of had that the attitude of really I.
Speaker 3: Could, well, I'll walk tomorrow, I don't care.
Speaker 1: And and and Vince knew it it was, you know,
Speaker 1: but he also they also were started starting to see,
Speaker 1: you know that Jesse was over, you know that there's
Speaker 1: an announcer and and uh, you know, and and really
Speaker 1: was helping the company.
Speaker 2: So uh, it was The Predator too, so that I
Speaker 2: just want to make sure everyone understands he was in
Speaker 2: The Predator a year before this SummerSlam. So I think
Speaker 2: you're bringing it up like Adam in there, because people
Speaker 2: recognize him not just from wrestling, to recognize him from
Speaker 2: a hit The Predator exactly.
Speaker 1: And uh, and you know, I don't know if it's
Speaker 1: felt like we're gonna be able to keep him around
Speaker 1: all the time, but I want him to keep to
Speaker 1: be part of this, maybe you know, bring him into
Speaker 1: the big events or whatever.
Speaker 3: And uh.
Speaker 1: And so yeah, that was a chance to profile him
Speaker 1: and also add another element to this, you know, could
Speaker 1: you know Jesse really be you know, call it down
Speaker 1: the middle. Could he really be fair or would he
Speaker 1: find a way to you know, help the other side.
Speaker 3: He's here, so to speak, And so it did, you know?
Speaker 3: It wasn't It.
Speaker 1: Wasn't really to me, just a little throwing, you know,
Speaker 1: But I mean you could make that work with the storyline.
Speaker 3: I think it did, you know.
Speaker 1: And I thought Jesse as a character was tremendous, you know,
Speaker 1: I really did, I think. And I liked his commentary.
Speaker 1: I didn't like with other people that besides Vince. He'd
Speaker 1: worked great with Gorilla, But I thought him and Vince
Speaker 1: were great.
Speaker 3: I really did. I just thought that that dynamic was great.
Speaker 2: It did work. You did accuse him in the Night
Speaker 2: of SummerSlam nineteen eighty eight or a backstage interview on
Speaker 2: the green screen that looked so good for you?
Speaker 3: And do you ask me I always look good?
Speaker 1: Then?
Speaker 2: Well I know I always look good, even right now
Speaker 2: with our new cameras. So I just want to say,
Speaker 2: you look amazing right now, and I think I look
Speaker 2: pretty good too. But with Jesse, though, you ask him like, hey,
Speaker 2: so we saw some video like Mendel A man's offered
Speaker 2: you money over the past few weeks on TV. You know,
Speaker 2: are you taking money? And just even Tourra kind of
Speaker 2: he gets mad at you a little bit, but he
Speaker 2: brings up like, Wellison, I'm here to be the referee
Speaker 2: for this matchup. I ought to make sure that Andre
Speaker 2: understands because they even tease building up this match that
Speaker 2: Andre going to Jesse and like you better do the
Speaker 2: right thing or you know, bad things are gonna happen
Speaker 2: to you. Jess is like, wait a second, don't you
Speaker 2: dare say that shit to me because I'm a heel
Speaker 2: and you're a heel. But you're threatening me. No, no, no,
Speaker 2: Like I'm still a badass. I'm still the body. Don't
Speaker 2: screw with me. So there was nice elements of buildings
Speaker 2: that storyline, But the other part is building that Hogan
Speaker 2: and Savage have a secret weapon and it's Miss Elizabeth,
Speaker 2: but it's her. It'sy Betsy teeny weeny yellow polka dot bakini.
Speaker 2: That bikini is supposed to defeat a million dollar man
Speaker 2: in Andre in this matchup. It does, but it turns
Speaker 2: out it's just like you know, old lady panties. I guess,
Speaker 2: but yeah, was macho man Like was there ever a
Speaker 2: design to actually have this it'sy bitsy teeny weenie like
Speaker 2: like I don't know, like a thong back or something
Speaker 2: like really edged out there in macho man's Yeah.
Speaker 3: No, yeah, yeah, that was.
Speaker 1: I mean, come on, they're bloomers, basically granny bloomers, and
Speaker 1: it wasn't like they were wanting to be wearing a
Speaker 1: thong or something. Yeah, just something that would be like
Speaker 1: a real bikini. Can you imagine, Randy, I mean, come on, Elizabeth.
Speaker 1: I remember they had a poster because the aerobics thing
Speaker 1: was big, and they had a post and I think
Speaker 1: it was one of the top selling pieces of merchandise
Speaker 1: they ever had at the time of her in this
Speaker 1: aerobics outfit, you know, with the headbands or the ands,
Speaker 1: the weights in her hand or something. I remember. But uh,
Speaker 1: can you imagine if they it could have been a
Speaker 1: nice bikini just see you see that skin?
Speaker 3: That My god.
Speaker 1: I don't know why Randy, because Randy liked making money
Speaker 1: and uh he signed off on that one.
Speaker 3: But yeah, it was.
Speaker 1: That was such a letdown for people, you know, to
Speaker 1: see that, because it was it was even beyond what
Speaker 1: people could have expected, even like a tight pair of
Speaker 1: shorts would have been better or something, you know, just
Speaker 1: give us, give us some, give us some some you know,
Speaker 1: inside here type shorts.
Speaker 3: But yeah, but these Boltie Bloomer things with.
Speaker 1: Yeah I was and and uh yeah, and Randy, that
Speaker 1: Randy had that.
Speaker 2: Influence ruined it, damn you you know right, And.
Speaker 3: I think it was It was a personal thing too.
Speaker 3: But I think Brandy didn't want.
Speaker 1: To make Elizabeth come up as like this piece of meat,
Speaker 1: you know, or you know those But come on, why
Speaker 1: why do you think? Why did people like Elizabeth so much?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: She was sweet, she was loyal, but she was also
Speaker 1: freaking beautiful, you.
Speaker 3: Know, like she was hot.
Speaker 1: And I can imagine how many teenage boys and that's
Speaker 1: you know, we love the families then.
Speaker 2: But dads were having a good times.
Speaker 1: Yeah I had, they were their first crush, you know.
Speaker 1: So what a missed up, what a missed opportunity? I mean,
Speaker 1: come on, show a bikini, Show her in a bikini.
Speaker 2: That poster is more seductive than what we saw here, because.
Speaker 1: And isn't that funny how you think back now, how
Speaker 1: risque that would have been. Let's say, you know, if
Speaker 1: she would have you know, just dropped it in like
Speaker 1: a cart one of the ring card girls or something,
Speaker 1: you know, just like that place would have played. It
Speaker 1: would have blown the roof off the place. That might
Speaker 1: have been like the biggest spot of the whole night.
Speaker 1: And if she did, you know, a photo shoot like that. Man,
Speaker 1: I'm not saying she had to do Playboy, but man,
Speaker 1: she could have done a fitness magazine in bikini or
Speaker 1: something like that. It would have the amount of publicity
Speaker 1: it would have gotten over that one again, phenomenal.
Speaker 2: She always had the face of.
Speaker 3: This missmissed opportunity.
Speaker 2: Really yes, yes, but she like she just takes off
Speaker 2: the bottom and then Jesse Andre, you know the man,
Speaker 2: They're all acting like a cartoon Like God, I've never
Speaker 2: seen a woman wearing Bloomers. Yeah, like it was. I
Speaker 2: get what they're going for, because in a wrestling match,
Speaker 2: how often does a woman just get a and rip
Speaker 2: off her skirt and reveals that she's wearing underwear tights.
Speaker 2: I guess it doesn't happened off.
Speaker 1: The payoff was awful. The payoff was awful. The build
Speaker 1: up was way over the top, and then the payoff
Speaker 1: was was dreadful because I know everybody you could just
Speaker 1: see the crowd reaction to It wasn't. There was not
Speaker 1: anybody that the crowd want. They're like, that's that's it.
Speaker 1: That really not that's it.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: Oh, there was a lot of the binocular is ready
Speaker 2: and then what what?
Speaker 1: Just what? And I knew and I knew, I knew it.
Speaker 1: I knew it. I was but yeah, this is not
Speaker 1: gonna be good. You're gonna you let these You're gonna
Speaker 1: let these people down.
Speaker 3: They were waiting for this.
Speaker 1: It was awesome and then you do that, like, you know,
Speaker 1: like it was even too far.
Speaker 3: It was like even worse than you could have made it. Well,
Speaker 3: let's say let's say they just could have.
Speaker 1: Done, you know, do one of those like a bikini
Speaker 1: like bikini bottom that that is a you know, goes
Speaker 1: up to the navel, you know, not not a string
Speaker 1: kind of bikini.
Speaker 3: People would have loved that. They said, Okay, let's see.
Speaker 2: You know, I swear to wearing like she was wearing.
Speaker 2: I swear to god she was wearing something underneath the bottoms.
Speaker 2: Because yeah, it just looked like, I'm like, you look
Speaker 2: frumpy and you're not from.
Speaker 3: That's the that's the look like you know, school marm.
Speaker 2: We don't want to collection I don't want to see you.
Speaker 3: But from the school Marm collection.
Speaker 2: Yeah not no. Again, it's fine for what it is, like,
Speaker 2: it does its job and the bad guys fall over
Speaker 2: and the good guy's winnings distracted by uh, you know,
Speaker 2: a lady. Oh my god, a woman in the ring?
Speaker 2: What's happening? Not none of nobody.
Speaker 3: That's that's another thing, like you said.
Speaker 1: They're like like, oh yeah, they're like definitely that dude.
Speaker 1: They're going wrestlings, fake, We're going We're going home, kid,
Speaker 1: We're not buying that ship.
Speaker 2: No. But Jesse is the Victoria is the referee. He's
Speaker 2: he plays down the law a couple of times, even
Speaker 2: changes the ring ropes from corner to corner in the beginning,
Speaker 2: just to show that he's the law and the ring.
Speaker 2: But he's reluctant. He's reluctant about kind of that three,
Speaker 2: but he does Megapowers obviously win. And this is again
Speaker 2: the big even more teasing of Savage and Hogan and
Speaker 2: Elizabeth and the dynamic between them three, because Savage is
Speaker 2: kind of like, why are we still why you celebrate
Speaker 2: with Hogan? Like what you you're in your underwear lady already? Yeah,
Speaker 2: what's uh, what's going on here? Why don't you come
Speaker 2: over here and hug me too, Like there's a lot
Speaker 2: going on. So they're already teasing this. And you brought
Speaker 2: up earlier about pay per views is only a few
Speaker 2: in the year. So when you look at each one
Speaker 2: of these pay per views with Macho Man and Hogan's
Speaker 2: side by side, each one of them as a bread
Speaker 2: crumb to the story of the Mega Powers exploding, it
Speaker 2: to me that is brilliant in keeping to it. You're
Speaker 2: talking about event centers taking four or five days to
Speaker 2: record multiple towns, multiple cities, advertising matches. Vince mcmah had
Speaker 2: a vision and he stuck to it. He didn't go, oh,
Speaker 2: it's a bumpy road, maybe I shouldn't do this anymore.
Speaker 2: Like no, he stuck to it. Took a year from
Speaker 2: me to go. So again, it's probably the greatest storyline
Speaker 2: that actually had extra pieces allowed to be grown out
Speaker 2: of it. What do you think about the Mega Powers
Speaker 2: Exploding as a storyline because you have you know, you
Speaker 2: have Austin and Rock and McMahon and Stone Cold and
Speaker 2: all these things. But I don't think anyone can touch
Speaker 2: this one.
Speaker 3: No. And also because they had the time, the time
Speaker 3: to do it.
Speaker 1: Yes, and your analogy there you said bread crumbs. That's
Speaker 1: the It's a great way to look at it is
Speaker 1: that you would you just keep dropping these breadcrumbs and
Speaker 1: people were just lapping them up.
Speaker 3: And bringing them along.
Speaker 1: And it really was one of those those storylines of
Speaker 1: how they knew they had this payoff way down the road,
Speaker 1: this is where we're going to get to and and
Speaker 1: and you know, Bruce talks about that being in those
Speaker 1: meetings back then where you know that Vince would lay
Speaker 1: this out. I think Vince was at his best then
Speaker 1: when he was, you know, really putting this all together.
Speaker 1: And but they had the time to do it. And
Speaker 1: even as we would see later and certainly some great
Speaker 1: storylines you mentioned the Stone Cold and Vince and you know,
Speaker 1: but they didn't have the layers that this one did
Speaker 1: as far as that that dynamic between hul Cogan and
Speaker 1: Randy Savage.
Speaker 3: And then you have Elizabeth.
Speaker 2: The oldest you know, the great story of all.
Speaker 3: Story of Yeah, that.
Speaker 1: Certainly bounced along reality there because of Randy's obsession and
Speaker 1: his relationship with Elizabeth was always talked about. You know,
Speaker 1: people would would wonder, you know, is this a work
Speaker 1: with her, that he the way he treats her, and
Speaker 1: he's so obsessive and he's very so protective, and it
Speaker 1: was always you know, what what is it between them?
Speaker 1: And for the most part, everybody will always say this
Speaker 1: is he really is like that? And so that would
Speaker 1: bleed over into the character that Randy Savage had established.
Speaker 1: And then you bring in someone like Hull co Logan,
Speaker 1: who's this uh you know, all American American uh each
Speaker 1: you you know, say your prayers, each your vitamins, and
Speaker 1: he's just assault of the earth. And he would never
Speaker 1: be sure betray a friend or have that lust in
Speaker 1: his heart for someone else. But then you're thinking, well,
Speaker 1: it is Elizabeth and it's you know, and he kind
Speaker 1: of sees the way Randy treats Elizabeth, and he's just
Speaker 1: trying to be a friend. And things happen happened to
Speaker 1: me before, and I was you know, and so I
Speaker 1: get it, you know that whole you know, you've got
Speaker 1: people out.
Speaker 3: There thinking that what's going on here? Maybe there is
Speaker 3: some truth to this. So that's why it works so well.
Speaker 1: And it was so subtle, like you said, when they're
Speaker 1: celebrating and and why would.
Speaker 3: You know, Hopes puts Elizabeth up on the shoulder.
Speaker 1: Or whatever, and Randy's kind of like, well, I get
Speaker 1: I get it, but what's he doing?
Speaker 3: Why is his hand there?
Speaker 1: Remember, there was always a thing like right and it
Speaker 1: was So that's why that that worked so well. And
Speaker 1: honest to god, there was some truth to it, you
Speaker 1: know that, you know, Randy not necessarily thinking that that
Speaker 1: he thought that, uh, Terry had eyes for Elizabeth, but
Speaker 1: that whole idea of you know, overshadowing him and always
Speaker 1: getting the you know, Hogan must pose and always getting
Speaker 1: you know, here there he's wearing the whole the whole
Speaker 1: breeze the Yeah, so there there was. That was another
Speaker 1: part of it. So that's why that works so well.
Speaker 1: And at the same time they had the time to
Speaker 1: tell that story and keep it going along and and
Speaker 1: and it was great and megapowers and then everything exploding
Speaker 1: it eventually, so one of the greatest Yeah, I agree
Speaker 1: with you, one of the greatest storylines in the history
Speaker 1: of professional wrestling.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's hard to have.
Speaker 1: Never seen anything like that before where you could take
Speaker 1: it that far and find so many different ways to
Speaker 1: entertain with it. That's what it came down.
Speaker 2: To well, especially a storyline that carries over generations, because
Speaker 2: you know, there's been so many wrestling storylines or so
Speaker 2: many wrestlers that say a wrestler a fan who just
Speaker 2: are today, if they're getting into it now, they're only
Speaker 2: watching today's wrestling. But some storylines are so powerful that
Speaker 2: they cross over and suddenly like, oh, I do know
Speaker 2: about Hogan and Matriman, or I do know about Austin
Speaker 2: McMahon or the bloodline, like there's all these little things
Speaker 2: that people can know because it's so powerful it carries
Speaker 2: over into new generations, which I think Hogan in Savage
Speaker 2: one hundred percent two, but also this Summer Slam has
Speaker 2: the Ultimate Warrior winning the Intercontinental title and thirty one
Speaker 2: seconds against Hunky talk Man, who held it for a
Speaker 2: long time, was the longest Randy Intercal champion for about
Speaker 2: I think twenty something years until Gunther. We beat that record,
Speaker 2: and it was one of those things where like will
Speaker 2: Gunther actually do it? And he did it, and so
Speaker 2: congratulations to him. But Honkey had that for a long time.
Speaker 2: But the big storyline is Bruce de Barbara Beefcake is
Speaker 2: the one who's supposed to be fighting Honky talk Man
Speaker 2: here and gets pushed out, gets replaced in storyline, Ron Bass,
Speaker 2: who really had nothing going on, shows up on a
Speaker 2: TV episode and stabs Bruce Piefcake in the face of
Speaker 2: one of his spurs, and uh, there's blood everywhere, but
Speaker 2: the the infamous Big Red X covers the screenere you
Speaker 2: can sort of see blood, but you can't see blood.
Speaker 2: It's in and out, but Warrior replaces him, winning the
Speaker 2: Intercontinent title in thirty one seconds. Now, there's so much
Speaker 2: around this because months before the Mega Powers even got together,
Speaker 2: Honky was going to lose the Intercontinental title to the
Speaker 2: Macho Man an episode of Saturday Night's Main Event. Honky apparently,
Speaker 2: according to rumors, refuses to do this, So then that's
Speaker 2: when Savage eventually wins the world title. At wrestling you
Speaker 2: have four because Hogan's got to go film a movie.
Speaker 2: Who can be World Champion? But Honky agreeing to lose
Speaker 2: to the Ultimate Warrior but not Savage to me is
Speaker 2: one of the shocking, most craziest moments ever, because why
Speaker 2: wouldn't you want to put Savage over when he seems
Speaker 2: like a man's man when it comes to business, Because
Speaker 2: we've seen him do it time again. But let's talk
Speaker 2: about it. What do you think about all this happening
Speaker 2: because Warrior winging the championship pretty big moment for him.
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh god, no, absolutely, and uh yeah and then
Speaker 1: thirty seconds thirty plus one second.
Speaker 3: Was a thirty one thirty one.
Speaker 1: Yeah. For Wayne to do that is what was a big,
Speaker 1: big deal. And you know, to him, it was all
Speaker 1: about respect. And it's amazing that he was able to
Speaker 1: say no, I'm not going to do a job for
Speaker 1: Randy Savage and get away with it. So I think
Speaker 1: that there there had to be some logic behind it.
Speaker 1: I mean, if that's something Vince really wanted to happen,
Speaker 1: it was going to happen. You know, honky Tonk wasn't
Speaker 1: that big of a superstar where he could make those
Speaker 1: kind of demands.
Speaker 3: And I think and honky Tonk Honky talks about it.
Speaker 1: I've heard him in interviews before about you know that
Speaker 1: a lot of it was about respect, and I think
Speaker 1: was the way they wanted to do it initially for
Speaker 1: the Intercontinental Belt that he didn't agree with.
Speaker 3: I don't think it was so much personal with Randy that,
Speaker 3: you know, but he had worked with Warrior.
Speaker 1: I think, you know, six months, had worked with him
Speaker 1: before and talked about how, you know, incredibly stiff he was.
Speaker 1: You know, everybody hated working with with the with Jim
Speaker 1: because he was just just wasn't getting it and he
Speaker 1: and in a lot of ways he didn't need to
Speaker 1: because he was getting you know, such a big push.
Speaker 3: The boys eventually corrected that old school.
Speaker 1: But when when Wayne talks about Dent's coming to him
Speaker 1: with that the idea that they wanted to put the
Speaker 1: warrior over and that he said that this guy, we're
Speaker 1: gonna we want to really push him and and we'd
Speaker 1: like to have.
Speaker 3: You help us do it.
Speaker 1: And he said that they asked me when I said,
Speaker 1: you know, okay, uh, he said, when they asked me
Speaker 1: how I wanted to do it.
Speaker 3: That made the.
Speaker 1: Difference because it wasn't just this is what's going to happen.
Speaker 3: You're gonna do it and you're gonna like it.
Speaker 1: It was we respect you as you know, a veteran,
Speaker 1: We know the this is a big ask, so you
Speaker 1: tell us how you think it should be done. Which
Speaker 1: for him, you know, everybody has their their what do
Speaker 1: they call it, their their love words or their you know,
Speaker 1: the how do you approach somebody? And that was what
Speaker 1: it was for him, that it was the respect and
Speaker 1: he said, okay, let's make it quick.
Speaker 3: And you know, we know he knew the business, he
Speaker 3: knew the pop it was going to get. And here he.
Speaker 1: Comes out, Hunky's like, you know, give me, give me
Speaker 1: anybody off, take anybody on.
Speaker 3: And uh, you know, the look at his face is like, oh.
Speaker 2: Shit, because it got him, not him right.
Speaker 1: And he comes out and it's a freaking squash and
Speaker 1: thirty you know, thirty seconds and it blew the freaking
Speaker 1: roof off that place because it was just like that,
Speaker 1: and it was that was a gift, you know, Honky
Speaker 1: tom Man, that was a gift for him to do that,
Speaker 1: you know, giving up the belt for one thing, and giving.
Speaker 3: It up in that fashion.
Speaker 1: It was a It was a huge It was a
Speaker 1: catapult for the warrior. I mean, especially as you said,
Speaker 1: look how long he was he held out of that belt.
Speaker 1: Now he didn't that belt.
Speaker 2: He lost the rick rude for a brief moment and
Speaker 2: then got it back.
Speaker 3: But you know what I mean, but that that.
Speaker 1: Whatever his ways of maintaining that belt, he had it
Speaker 1: for a very long time.
Speaker 3: So he obviously had to had some.
Speaker 1: You know, cred in the ring for people fans wise
Speaker 1: that he didn't have the belt just because he was
Speaker 1: danced well and couldn't play a guitar.
Speaker 2: You know here, did you hear that Honky refused to
Speaker 2: get the press slam because when they were working together,
Speaker 2: Warri were grabb you by your nuts and squeeze. So
Speaker 2: he was like, I will not take that press slam,
Speaker 2: Like I'm not gonna take I'm not letting you pick
Speaker 2: me up like you can. And if you wash the
Speaker 2: clothes line, he punches Honky right in the face with
Speaker 2: a clothesline. It's not a light boop. He goes He's
Speaker 2: like boom and he just goes down.
Speaker 1: Imagine taking that every single night, right, You imagine doing
Speaker 1: that when you're on the road, Like that's stuff that
Speaker 1: people don't even get to see. Right, and when you've
Speaker 1: been doing that, you know, five previous nights where he's
Speaker 1: taking your freaking head off.
Speaker 2: I mean yeah, or taking your nuts off that and
Speaker 2: and they.
Speaker 1: Credit they credit Rick Rude for the one who really
Speaker 1: changed Jim's attitude.
Speaker 3: I think that's a nice way to put it.
Speaker 1: And and and and I'm not saying it wasn't in
Speaker 1: a way where Rick just beat the hell out of them,
Speaker 1: you know, and and and literally there were altercations behind
Speaker 1: back in the the locker room where he I know
Speaker 1: one time that he took him out, But it was
Speaker 1: because they worked together for quite a while, and they
Speaker 1: credit Rick Rude to you know that he had the
Speaker 1: patients that you know, he could have. Rick could have
Speaker 1: ruined his career, could have ruined Ultimate Warriors career if
Speaker 1: he wanted to. He could have he could have heard
Speaker 1: him seriously where he was going to be put out
Speaker 1: of action or but that was another gift that one
Speaker 1: of the guys gave to Jim Helwig, that Rick Rude
Speaker 1: had the patience and the willingness to do it to say, look,
Speaker 1: we can do this the easy way or the hard way.
Speaker 3: Every night, I'll go out there because I'm gonna win.
Speaker 3: I'm I know.
Speaker 1: I mean, the guys talk about you know that group
Speaker 1: from Grandma Bees, the you know the guys that they
Speaker 1: talk about, tough guys, and they say that when it
Speaker 1: came down to it, you know, like Rick may not
Speaker 1: have been the one that would be left standing because
Speaker 1: he wasn't a huge guy. But he'll swing until his
Speaker 1: body stops letting him do it. And and so you know,
Speaker 1: Rick was a legit tough guy and and didn't like
Speaker 1: to mix it up. So the fact that he got
Speaker 1: to the point where with Jim and said, look, dude,
Speaker 1: we can do this, you know, every night, and I'll
Speaker 1: beat the living ship out of you until you get it.
Speaker 1: And then at some point Jim started to say, Okay,
Speaker 1: I guess I better change. You know, no matter how
Speaker 1: bigger the influence I might have with Vince McMahon, this
Speaker 1: guy is not going to let up.
Speaker 3: And it hurts. And that's when they say that.
Speaker 1: It really he changed as a as a wrestler in
Speaker 1: the ring. And h I don't think he ever could
Speaker 1: stop being that stiff, because that's just what's his the nature.
Speaker 1: But he did start to learn how to work. And
Speaker 1: credit to Rick Rude for making that happen.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, credit to Honey time Man for putting them over,
Speaker 2: because this Summer Slam moment of Warror winning on a
Speaker 2: continental title will be played still to this day of
Speaker 2: highlighting just a quick Summer Slam moment like oh, let's
Speaker 2: go back and check out this amazing moment. Boom, Boom Boom,
Speaker 2: runs down, shoulder block, clothes the line, punch in the face, Boom, pina.
Speaker 2: The crowd never goes down. The crowd never sits down.
Speaker 2: They don't have time to it's music. When boom, we celebrate.
Speaker 2: So it was grateful for that. But you got to
Speaker 2: interview Ultimate Warrior later on the evening with the Intercontinental title.
Speaker 2: And this is your first thumb big interview with Warrior
Speaker 2: because there's classic moments of you guys, well I consider classic.
Speaker 2: You probably considered completely different feelings. You watch this one.
Speaker 2: You're a brand new to the game. You just you're
Speaker 2: just there, hold the microphone. What was your first reactions
Speaker 2: to this character? Because you told them before you did
Speaker 2: study up on these wrestlers. You had cute cards with
Speaker 2: pictures and names and attributes. You knew who they were.
Speaker 2: But now you're next to him interviewing him. What were
Speaker 2: your emotions like.
Speaker 1: Well, I'd done some stuff with him prior to that.
Speaker 1: This wasn't just you know, all of a sudden, it's
Speaker 1: room with him, and but and Geene would say the
Speaker 1: same thing. It was one of those you'd set them
Speaker 1: up and then just get out of the way. You
Speaker 1: might still be holding that microphone, but you're not doing
Speaker 1: you're not interacting, you're not your your reaction to what
Speaker 1: the person is saying is not important. It's it's just
Speaker 1: it was just okay, I'm back here with Ultimore order
Speaker 1: and go ahead and say what you're going to say,
Speaker 1: because that's what I am. I'm a definitely a mic
Speaker 1: stand during that and and that is uh, as we say,
Speaker 1: we're still trying to translate some of those promos, but
Speaker 1: you know, but it came with that high octane delivery
Speaker 1: and uh, you know, the intensity and people who became
Speaker 1: Ultimate Warrior.
Speaker 3: Fans love it, love it.
Speaker 1: And so that's that was pretty much, you know, my
Speaker 1: whole mentality that was just you know, get to him,
Speaker 1: make sure you let him do his thing, and then uh,
Speaker 1: you know, throw it back or whatever it was, whatever
Speaker 1: the out was. And most of the time it was
Speaker 1: just Jim you know, oh, you know, just finishing and
Speaker 1: they would go back to wherever they were.
Speaker 3: So that's that's kind of the way that one went.
Speaker 1: And and like you said, I didn't want to I
Speaker 1: didn't want to hit a home run or a triple
Speaker 1: or whatever. I just wanted to single that night, just
Speaker 1: get through make sure the gets done and I do
Speaker 1: my part and I don't make him do it again
Speaker 1: or anything like that. And that's what happened. So it
Speaker 1: was it was a good night.
Speaker 2: You were not sacrificed to the Skeletons that evening, folks, Yeah,
Speaker 2: you will safe. But Bruce Beefcake being removed from this
Speaker 2: matchup because of the Rom Bass storyline. I imagine if
Speaker 2: I'm Beefcake, you know you're still working house shows. As
Speaker 2: we talked about, he is on the C Show as
Speaker 2: the main event against Hercules, but here he was gonna
Speaker 2: win or possibly win the inter title. This is on
Speaker 2: pay per review. That means big money in his pocket.
Speaker 2: According to a shoot interview he did years ago, he
Speaker 2: said he lost over one hundred grand by not working
Speaker 2: this event and so if he did win or did
Speaker 2: lose here, he would have still continued on, probably on
Speaker 2: house shows against Hockey Talk Man. Instead, he goes off
Speaker 2: and works with Rom Bass on TV, eventually shaving rom
Speaker 2: Bass's head on an episode of Saturday Night's Main Event.
Speaker 2: So if your Beefcake, would you thinking, you're like, okay,
Speaker 2: well that's great. This guy Warrior is now in a
Speaker 2: Collin Champion and I gotta go work with Ron Bass.
Speaker 2: And again nothing against Ron Bass, but he is no
Speaker 2: honkey talk man.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know, and I love Brutus, but as
Speaker 1: we've talked about before, you know that he was not
Speaker 1: going to be at the top of the car. He
Speaker 1: got the character. I think he took that characters, you know,
Speaker 1: to great heights, and you know, his association with the
Speaker 1: Halkster certainly helped him. But you know, the people that
Speaker 1: were booking that did not see that as being a
Speaker 1: really good.
Speaker 3: Money maker.
Speaker 1: You know that they didn't know that was gonna think
Speaker 1: that was going to put butts in seats, And it
Speaker 1: was always about once we get these guys out of
Speaker 1: the road, are people got to come to see him? So,
Speaker 1: as I said, you know with the you're talking about
Speaker 1: those tours, well, Brutus could could headline those, you know,
Speaker 1: maybe even the B Show, but the C shows. And
Speaker 1: he was he had great name recognition as far as
Speaker 1: you know, you know, Brutus the Barber, but uh, thinking
Speaker 1: that that was going to be a great run and
Speaker 1: they obviously maybe if there wasn't an Ultimate Warrior around,
Speaker 1: they might have gone with that, but this was uh,
Speaker 1: you know, the pairing for them. They wanted to push
Speaker 1: him and he wasn't ready for really prime time of
Speaker 1: the Warrior, but he was on his way, and uh
Speaker 1: so that was that.
Speaker 3: Was where they were going to go. We've given that choice.
Speaker 3: You've heard superstars talk all the time.
Speaker 1: If I would have gotten that, if I would have
Speaker 1: gotten to go with this guy, I would have made
Speaker 1: all this money whatever. But that's just not the way
Speaker 1: they saw it. And most of the times they were
Speaker 1: they were pretty much right on with with guys that
Speaker 1: they put in these runs. So yeah, I would have
Speaker 1: loved to see him make some good money and stuff
Speaker 1: like that. But that what you think were people outraged that,
Speaker 1: you know, the Brutus didn't get that shot and get
Speaker 1: to go and go up against You know, I don't.
Speaker 2: Think so, No, I don't. I don't think it would either.
Speaker 2: One of the big things about this event, though, is
Speaker 2: the brother Love segment where there's gonna be a big surprise.
Speaker 2: We don't know what it is. According to rumors, Vince
Speaker 2: Mann is trying to get Rick Flay to jump over
Speaker 2: and join the WWF. He's going to make his debut here.
Speaker 2: That does not happen. We get the return of Hacksaw,
Speaker 2: Jim dug In after what recently happened with him and
Speaker 2: Iron Cheek. So you just with a company you got
Speaker 2: you came in May of eighty eight. So here we
Speaker 2: are in August of eighty eight. Are you hearing the
Speaker 2: rumblings that you know, Hulk Hogan, you know he's here,
Speaker 2: but we might get Ric Flair might be coming too
Speaker 2: now and he's going to show up, because that's what
Speaker 2: the segment's really based around. But Vince, according to rumor, says,
Speaker 2: well we got we don't have Flair, but you know
Speaker 2: we got Hacksaw goddamn it, so let's get Hackstack.
Speaker 1: Well yeah, yeah, that that there was always That's the thing.
Speaker 1: There was always those rumors that you know that Rick
Speaker 1: Flair was going to come, even you know for years
Speaker 1: and uh and and I think we all knew at
Speaker 1: some point it's going to happen. But uh we're people,
Speaker 1: you know, amazed that it didn't happen, No, because that
Speaker 1: stuff happened all the time where they would have these
Speaker 1: uh and and a lot of times, you know, Rick
Speaker 1: would do that just to you know, be able to
Speaker 1: help you know, get management, get more money, or wanted
Speaker 1: to stick around longer or get in another position or
Speaker 1: something like that. You know, people did that use that
Speaker 1: leverage all the time, and all it took was a
Speaker 1: phone call if anybody heard, you know, they he talked
Speaker 1: to Pat Patterson or something like that, which they would
Speaker 1: make sure they put out there just you know, we
Speaker 1: worked together way friends or you know whatever. So how
Speaker 1: how close that was to happening, we'll never know, but
Speaker 1: there was always that room and I know that. And
Speaker 1: it's too bad because maybe when if it would have
Speaker 1: happened earlier like that, maybe that Hulk Flair collision would
Speaker 1: have been you know, much more than it would become
Speaker 1: later when they tried to make that happen and it didn't.
Speaker 1: But yeah, you heard those rumors all the time the
Speaker 1: when it didn't. I mean, obviously we're kind of making
Speaker 1: plans for it. But you know, Hexa stepping in and
Speaker 1: you know, right, but he was welcomed back with open
Speaker 1: arms and it very well for Jim when when he
Speaker 1: did make that return.
Speaker 3: So and he's discussed that too. You know, he would he.
Speaker 1: Have liked to have been able to back literally back
Speaker 1: that car up and not have Sheikh in the car. Sure,
Speaker 1: but it changed the trajectory of his career and he's
Speaker 1: still reaping the benefits from it from today, you know,
Speaker 1: because of when he came back and then it kind
Speaker 1: of became this character, fun loving and all American and
Speaker 1: never looked back.
Speaker 3: Oh my god.
Speaker 2: I always love Hacksag Jim.
Speaker 1: Because you know, before that, prior to that, he was
Speaker 1: you know, down mid South and all that. He was
Speaker 1: a badass, tough guy. You know, I mean literally, he
Speaker 1: was always a tough guy. But he wasn't the funny, comical.
Speaker 1: He was just a badass brawler. So that was that
Speaker 1: was good. That worked out really well for him. But
Speaker 1: it's too bad the pain he had to suffer in
Speaker 1: the meantime. But you know, it really did work.
Speaker 2: No, well, he got brought back instead of the iron cheeks,
Speaker 2: so nothing, you know, and.
Speaker 3: I was at the highlight of the show. No side
Speaker 3: did come out.
Speaker 2: I don't think it would have been the highlight of
Speaker 2: the show if Rick Flair showed up in the w
Speaker 2: and just be like, WHOA, this is cool because if
Speaker 2: you're a wrestling fan, you don't get every channel in
Speaker 2: the entire world. Just because wrestling's in the South doesn't
Speaker 2: mean I get it in the North. You know, that's
Speaker 2: a whole different ballgame of cable and television at this time,
Speaker 2: so it's not like everyone gets everything. So yeah, but
Speaker 2: it's a little different story. But also on this event,
Speaker 2: Powers the Pain make their pay per view debut against
Speaker 2: the Bolsheviks. Powers the Pain have the Baron, Baron von Rosky,
Speaker 2: who is a star before this, but he looks like
Speaker 2: the executioner. He's got a hood on, he's got weird
Speaker 2: pain on his face. But originally Vince Man is trying
Speaker 2: to bring in the Legion of Doom, the Road Warriors.
Speaker 2: They don't want to leave where they're doing because they're
Speaker 2: making a lot of money off of Japan and other
Speaker 2: different organizations that exist. So instead we get the Powers
Speaker 2: of Pain. The Powers of Pain. We're in a storyline
Speaker 2: with the Road Warriors a few months even before coming
Speaker 2: into the WWF. So it's very interesting because Rick Flair
Speaker 2: doesn't come in now, he comes in later. It's okay.
Speaker 2: Leader of Doom doesn't come in now, they come in later,
Speaker 2: It's okay. You know, was Vinces trying to grab all
Speaker 2: the talent from all the territories right now, and each
Speaker 2: one of them was like, well, I'm very valuable. So
Speaker 2: if you want me, it's going to cost you. Instead
Speaker 2: you got Powers of Pain, which are probably a discount price.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but would he have liked to had you know,
Speaker 1: Animal and Hawk. Sure, you know it wasn't. I mean
Speaker 1: he did like to, you know, pill for some of
Speaker 1: the tent from other territories. Of course, you know, anytime
Speaker 1: you could weaken them a little bit. But there were
Speaker 1: are there were guys that he really you know, just
Speaker 1: personally wanted to get in and Rick Flair was one
Speaker 1: of them. And then uh, you know, uh, the Road
Speaker 1: Warriors definitely they were the hottest tag team in the
Speaker 1: world in every territory and in Japan. So to have
Speaker 1: gotten them over, yeah, absolutely, and the and people talk
Speaker 1: about the Powers of Pain were his answer to it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but as we've discussed before, to me, you know, demolition was.
Speaker 3: Was definitely was the answer for the w W E.
Speaker 3: And they were you.
Speaker 1: Know, similarities, but at the same time they were unique
Speaker 1: in every in their own ways.
Speaker 3: And uh, I when we have.
Speaker 1: These discussions about you know, was there not enough room
Speaker 1: for both of these tag teams? And I always thought
Speaker 1: like this is you could have these two tag teams
Speaker 1: going against each other for years. I mean, you can
Speaker 1: have a storyline between those two and to think that,
Speaker 1: well I got to get rid of one because now I.
Speaker 3: Got these guys.
Speaker 1: I was like, that makes no sense to me, because
Speaker 1: they were you know, big tough tag teams, but still
Speaker 1: very different from each other and tremendously over come on
Speaker 1: Accent Smash were just yeah, they were right there at
Speaker 1: the top. And we know how popular tag teams were then,
Speaker 1: so there was plenty a room. And you know, that
Speaker 1: whole discussion never made sense to me that you couldn't
Speaker 1: have both, Like, please bring them in and I love them.
Speaker 1: They're just going to add to this this whole uh
Speaker 1: you know, giant division we've got of tag teams.
Speaker 2: I loved Powers of Pain, especially now too, because their
Speaker 2: baby faces are huge or strong. Well when they come
Speaker 2: out the Artist of God, dude, I swear it was
Speaker 2: like watching a video game, not the one that you
Speaker 2: were in European Rampant.
Speaker 3: Okay, just put the knife in a little different.
Speaker 2: Commented on. Someone commented they were like, why would you
Speaker 2: do that to Mooney? I was like, I didn't mean
Speaker 2: to do that to Mooney. I love money, but.
Speaker 1: Seriously, folks, it's.
Speaker 3: Good that one.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, it's good. It's good.
Speaker 1: Here. I told you I had it all over on
Speaker 1: Lynda McMahon when I made that colony.
Speaker 2: You're right, You're right, you one up on that one.
Speaker 2: You got them, yeah, but with powers of Pain. Though
Speaker 2: it was not more obvious to me watching this event
Speaker 2: last night that powers of Pain was Vince Man's being like,
Speaker 2: all right, go out there and do all the road
Speaker 2: Warrior tons like it was, honest to god, like watching
Speaker 2: a video game where they were just took all the
Speaker 2: talents from Legit of Doom, shoved them inside Warlord and
Speaker 2: BARBERI and was like, all right, just go be them,
Speaker 2: but we'll call you something different. And people might be
Speaker 2: offended by that, but honestly, after watching this last night,
Speaker 2: it was not. It was so obvious that Demolition is
Speaker 2: not the the Legion of Doom ripoff. For thirty years
Speaker 2: people thought it's Bars of Pain. The evidence is there,
Speaker 2: your honor.
Speaker 1: Yes, absolutely, But you know and love those guys, but
Speaker 1: they were not Hawk and Annim. Their promos or lack
Speaker 1: of were not by any comparison to what you know,
Speaker 1: mikeah Joe could do. And you know, and I've talked
Speaker 1: before too about about Hawk that he he had. I
Speaker 1: loved his voice well, you know that whole I mean
Speaker 1: his you could have been a great voiceover guy. I
Speaker 1: always thought, you know, there's a few guys in there.
Speaker 1: Bill Edy is another one who I always thought had
Speaker 1: great pipes and being an announcer, I could appreciate that.
Speaker 1: But they, as we know, back then, you know, promos
Speaker 1: were everything too. You know, it wasn't just what you
Speaker 1: did in the ring. You had to be able to
Speaker 1: get in front of a camera and sell it. And
Speaker 1: and those two and Mike was one of the best,
Speaker 1: you know, and and and the creativity, not just the delivery,
Speaker 1: but the creativity and stuff they would come up with. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so sure, yeah, there's no question you're right that Powers
Speaker 1: of Pain was Vince's answer to.
Speaker 3: The Road Warriors. But but as.
Speaker 1: Far as how they did it in the ring, the
Speaker 1: way they could move in the ring, and the promos
Speaker 1: they did, there was no there was no comparison.
Speaker 3: They were very, very different.
Speaker 1: So in a sense of as far as selling and
Speaker 1: doing interviews, because Action and Smash were really.
Speaker 3: Good at it too. That was why to me to.
Speaker 1: Putting those two against each other or you know, on
Speaker 1: their own, it didn't matter.
Speaker 3: They sold tickets, no question agreed.
Speaker 2: Also in this pay per view is an amazing moment
Speaker 2: that's controversial to a lot of people out there. It's
Speaker 2: Rick Rude defeating Junkyard Dog. This is the end of
Speaker 2: Junkyard Dog in the pay per view. Don Morocco has
Speaker 2: the same distinction here in so does Kipetera, who holds
Speaker 2: up November. But in this matchup with Rick Rude, he's
Speaker 2: wearing Junkyard Dog tights. It's his face, it's airbrush, it's beautiful.
Speaker 2: But when Rick Rud goes to the top rope in
Speaker 2: the middle of this matchup, it looks like he's about
Speaker 2: to just like rip his clothes off, like expose himself.
Speaker 2: And he pulls off his tights on the top rope
Speaker 2: a little bit just to show his crotch. It's Sheryl Roberts.
Speaker 2: It's Jake the Snake's wife's face on his crotch. So
Speaker 2: apparently it is Pat Patterson's idea. When Jake sees this backstage,
Speaker 2: he runs out, he attacks Rick Rude. Junkyard Dog loses
Speaker 2: bibes qualification because of Jake. I have interviewed Jake and
Speaker 2: he was not happy at all having his wife involved,
Speaker 2: having the wife involved with the boys, or having his
Speaker 2: wife's face on Rick Rud's crotch. What did you see
Speaker 2: backstage this evening where Jake's reactions to this, because it
Speaker 2: didn't look like he was happy.
Speaker 3: Well, I don't will.
Speaker 1: Jake say all that, But nobody likes a good storyline
Speaker 1: better than Jacob rock and I and he knew.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 1: Uh as far as trying, you know, separating his personal
Speaker 1: life from the business, I totally understand that.
Speaker 3: You know, it wasn't the probably initially, you know, him.
Speaker 1: Seeing what Brandy dealt with in his life, probably didn't
Speaker 1: want to have that part of his business either. But
Speaker 1: I think that he saw and then she had to
Speaker 1: agreed to to become part of it.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 1: It wasn't like they just did this and said for
Speaker 1: the first time when Jake's backstage and he says that,
Speaker 1: and that's what. Yeah, it runs out there. So I'm
Speaker 1: sure they made it worth his while. And it was
Speaker 1: a great storyline. I mean, come on, it was really
Speaker 1: it was really clever. And and Rick with those the
Speaker 1: airbrushed tights that he had, Yeah, he could do a
Speaker 1: lot of those.
Speaker 3: We've talked before.
Speaker 1: You know when they went on the Kathy Lee and Regis,
Speaker 1: Regis and Kathy Lee and and he went on there
Speaker 1: with her face on his crotch and she walked off
Speaker 1: the set. But this was you know that this is
Speaker 1: a great storyline. And I think that, like I said,
Speaker 1: you know, when it came down to it, Jake's businessman,
Speaker 1: and he also understood the business really well and was
Speaker 1: really good about, you know, whatever.
Speaker 3: It was making it work. And so at some point
Speaker 3: he had to agree to it.
Speaker 1: And but I don't doubt for a meit he probably
Speaker 1: wasn't real happy and probably there was some trepidation in
Speaker 1: his mind of what's this going to do? You know
Speaker 1: as far as my personal life is, you know, exposing
Speaker 1: more of that. I don't like people knowing.
Speaker 3: About that part of me.
Speaker 1: But you know, like anything else, Jake Roberts was brilliant
Speaker 1: at you know, making storylines work. And you mentioned Jy
Speaker 1: Duh and it's just amazing to me. And I get
Speaker 1: people who know about his career or followed uh mid
Speaker 1: South and those other territories that he never really you know,
Speaker 1: he was popular, but never really got over to the
Speaker 1: anywhere near the heights that he reached in these other places.
Speaker 2: Why do you think that is though, And it's the
Speaker 2: combo things.
Speaker 3: I think that it was kind of a regional thing. Okay,
Speaker 3: it says like down south man, he was gigantic.
Speaker 1: You know, Hacksaw talks about what Hexau was there too
Speaker 1: with him, and and you know he.
Speaker 3: Talks about the crowds that would come in there. I
Speaker 3: mean the jay I d owned the place, you know
Speaker 3: he did.
Speaker 1: He knew how to work those crowds and and just
Speaker 1: was tremendously over blew the roof off every time. And
Speaker 1: and you know he talks about the fights that would
Speaker 1: be in the crowd before they went out there.
Speaker 3: You know that there was like a rabbit uh you know.
Speaker 1: House and I think coming up and uh, you know,
Speaker 1: people not really understanding that that it was kind of
Speaker 1: that old school that that Junkyard Dog was a part of.
Speaker 1: And it was his character was kind of thin, just
Speaker 1: junk j white, you know, junk yard Dog.
Speaker 3: He was a.
Speaker 1: You know, rough and tumble guy. They had the uh,
Speaker 1: you know, barking and it just people never really got it.
Speaker 1: So uh that that always was kind of amazing to me.
Speaker 1: And I didn't understand it at the time. How big
Speaker 1: he was down south. You know a lot of these
Speaker 1: guys would come up and I didn't know their rich
Speaker 1: history or you know, the dues they had paid. So
Speaker 1: I would always look at it from Okay, how they
Speaker 1: kind of reaction they get from the crowd, how do
Speaker 1: they earn you know, the coming in because you know
Speaker 1: a lot of them people didn't know. Sometimes you know
Speaker 1: that they because people didn't they were the WWF fans,
Speaker 1: as we talk about, and so they have to really
Speaker 1: almost start from scratch. And then if they didn't get
Speaker 1: that push or that they had some gimmick, that was
Speaker 1: you know, kind of just thin. They might be one
Speaker 1: of the greatest workers in the ring, but we all
Speaker 1: knew what it was all about showmanship back then and
Speaker 1: cutting promos, and you know, for whatever reason, it just
Speaker 1: it just never happened. And you know, maybe was it
Speaker 1: was later in his career and he was beat up
Speaker 1: and had some issues outside of the ring.
Speaker 2: Well he doesn't look here either, though. I think if
Speaker 2: you look at like you in two years ago, he's
Speaker 2: musclier here.
Speaker 3: He doesn't.
Speaker 2: He doesn't look very like. I'm not the greatest man
Speaker 2: in shape e there're gonna but he doesn't look like
Speaker 2: the way he did a few years ago, and he doesn't.
Speaker 2: He just looks like a big guy versus before he
Speaker 2: looked muscular.
Speaker 3: Mm hmm.
Speaker 2: Maybe that's it. I don't, I don't know, you know,
Speaker 2: maybe we did it a whole dark side of the
Speaker 2: ring about him, I believe. So it's not the junk
Speaker 2: yard we saw in Mid South or the a couple
Speaker 2: of years ago. He was in that rock and Wrestling
Speaker 2: cartoon with hul Coogan, so he was big enough to
Speaker 2: get a caricter and.
Speaker 1: I thought that I think they thought that he was
Speaker 1: going to you know, that it was going to be
Speaker 1: he was going to be able to stay up with that,
Speaker 1: but just it just didn't work out like that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and we Jake, we mentioned Jake and Rick Rude. Well,
Speaker 2: Jake beat Hercules later in the night. Just a simple match,
Speaker 2: you know, nothing very special, just this Summer Slam. I
Speaker 2: see a lot of comparisons online saying, well, this is
Speaker 2: like a house show versus a like a Wrestlmania, like
Speaker 2: a big event where each match is here because of storylines,
Speaker 2: you know. And I can see that comparison. But also
Speaker 2: I thought this was a fun event in general. But
Speaker 2: since we're talking about the Junkyard Dog and his kind
Speaker 2: of run ending bad news. Brown defeated Camp Peterra. Dino
Speaker 2: Bravo defeated Don Morocco. When you think of those names,
Speaker 2: Camp Peterra, Don Morocco, and Junkyard Dog, it's like they're
Speaker 2: not part of in my eyes, this golden era of
Speaker 2: the WWF. They're part of the rock and wrestling era
Speaker 2: of the WWF, and some people put those together, but
Speaker 2: I don't. Russellia one to three are part of rock
Speaker 2: and wrestling. After three, to me, it becomes golden era.
Speaker 2: And it's interesting to see these three wrestlers are gone,
Speaker 2: but yet they help build a foundation. But yet with wrestling.
Speaker 2: You noticed as well with wrestling, once you were out
Speaker 2: of the machine and you're not part of that machine anymore.
Speaker 2: The machine doesn't need you. It just spits you out
Speaker 2: when we're done with you. It's sad to see that
Speaker 2: happened to wrestlers like this. Kept Peterra, you know, going
Speaker 2: to jail for two years. Vince though, paying his wife
Speaker 2: and his kid money for those two years, but he
Speaker 2: was in jail, giving him a second chance, and he
Speaker 2: came back like there's a lot of good things that
Speaker 2: happened with these wrestlers, but this is the end fall
Speaker 2: three of them. And did you have any relationships with
Speaker 2: these guys? I know you just came in, but they're out.
Speaker 1: No, not really, you know, And it was kind of
Speaker 1: like that they were on their way out when I
Speaker 1: was basically getting established there.
Speaker 3: But I did work with them a.
Speaker 1: Few times, you know, Don Morocco, and I remember, you know,
Speaker 1: Ken Peterra. But you're you're right when you mentioned that
Speaker 1: rock and Wrestling, which was very necessary and very beneficial
Speaker 1: to the WWE then, but it was definitely an end
Speaker 1: to it. And then, like you said, we started the
Speaker 1: Golden era where you know, MTV wasn't going to really
Speaker 1: help anymore, but it was a great way to kick
Speaker 1: things off and get people's attention because I remember living
Speaker 1: in New York City at the time working for Major
Speaker 1: League Baseball productions, and even I becoming very aware of
Speaker 1: what was happening with the WWE WWF and you know,
Speaker 1: the Cyndi Lauper and the MTV connection, and it was
Speaker 1: like a big deal.
Speaker 3: Everybody was hearing about it. So a very necessary part
Speaker 3: for an a brilliant marketing strategy and get and connecting
Speaker 3: to that and drawing in a lot of young people
Speaker 3: and just exposing them to it. And I think even
Speaker 3: vinced that it wasn't going to last. And so.
Speaker 1: You know, you knew that that was going to at
Speaker 1: some point come to an end, and Vin said plans
Speaker 1: beyond it and was already putting that in works. But
Speaker 1: there were some that just weren't going to be able
Speaker 1: to go along for the ride. And the guys you
Speaker 1: mentioned we were part of that, as you said, kind
Speaker 1: of that rock and wrestling, and.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's sad to see that happened to wrestles,
Speaker 2: but again happens with sports.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but there was you know, but it was also
Speaker 3: there was other things going on.
Speaker 2: Well yeah, it's not like.
Speaker 3: The like that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they might have survived if other things weren't going on.
Speaker 2: Of course. The first match above the evening is the
Speaker 2: British Bulldogs versus the Fabulous Rougeos. This match happened before
Speaker 2: the infamous fight between Jacques and Dynamite Kid backstage, but
Speaker 2: they're clearly his tension because the rumor is neither team
Speaker 2: wants to loose to each other. So we have a
Speaker 2: time limit draw and if you watch this This probably
Speaker 2: is the best matchup of the night. It was incredible.
Speaker 2: It was great to see him wrestled. But the fabulous
Speaker 2: rouge os and their little baby American flags is just
Speaker 2: one of the greatest things ever because we're all American boys,
Speaker 2: do you Why is your American flag so damn small?
Speaker 2: But is that an indication that wrestlers don't respect each
Speaker 2: other by saying like I'm not going to lose to you, Well,
Speaker 2: I'm not going to lose to you either, Like, how
Speaker 2: is it really up to wrestlers to choose who loses
Speaker 2: and who wins?
Speaker 1: Well, it isn't when it comes right down to it.
Speaker 1: So it's a balance. I think you're trying to keep
Speaker 1: everybody happy, and then it's one of those things. Maybe
Speaker 1: you want to keep this storyline going and make people
Speaker 1: are going to go on and go see these people
Speaker 1: at a house show.
Speaker 3: So sure.
Speaker 1: There can be this tension between tag teams or or
Speaker 1: they don't like the storyline where they're going, or they
Speaker 1: think that it's going to hurt their image or something,
Speaker 1: and they're like, come on, look.
Speaker 3: Look at it. How about this?
Speaker 1: You know what if we have this you know where
Speaker 1: there's really no conclusion and then we can start the
Speaker 1: storyline between them. So it bottom line like if they
Speaker 1: want like, no, you're doing the job. You gotta you're
Speaker 1: going down to this, what do you think they're going
Speaker 1: to do, They're going to either have to walk or
Speaker 1: you know, so it's a it's a balance because what
Speaker 1: is their value to the company. And then we can't
Speaker 1: be seen giving into these guys every time and then
Speaker 1: everybody else is going to want to do that they
Speaker 1: don't like the storyline, so you got to be you know,
Speaker 1: very careful where you tread. But as we would see
Speaker 1: that this would become a very real issue between these
Speaker 1: two tag teams. They would not did not like each other.
Speaker 1: And as we know.
Speaker 2: Whole British Bulldogs podcast it's up on the Primetime with
Speaker 2: Sean Mooney YouTube channel right now and people are really
Speaker 2: enjoying it. You know, we're bringing back a lot of
Speaker 2: memories from the past and they're loving to hear you
Speaker 2: share your amazing insights on you know, British Bulldogs the Rockers,
Speaker 2: so check that out as well. Of course, Instagram is
Speaker 2: live and well, Facebook, TikTok everything, all the socials, all
Speaker 2: the socials are back in a live and people are
Speaker 2: loving Sean Mooney interacting online, so thank you for that.
Speaker 2: And later on we will read some questions that were
Speaker 2: sent in on Instagram, Facebook and YouTube on the Primetime
Speaker 2: with Sean Mooney channels, because people will have some questions
Speaker 2: for you about this event, so we will toss them
Speaker 2: out later on in the evening. So we appreciate that
Speaker 2: for interacting with us. But Frenchie Martin, I love him
Speaker 2: so much because he has a sign here that says Usa,
Speaker 2: not Okay. It's a giant sign. His giant rugos so small,
Speaker 2: so small. We have Bolsheviks loving Russia. We have Fablius
Speaker 2: Rujo's pretending the love of we got USI and not okay.
Speaker 2: Man hating America is just a just a pride and
Speaker 2: true gimmick. We have Demolition to Tag Team Champions. They're
Speaker 2: heels taking a Heart Foundation. Who are baby Faces? They
Speaker 2: recently fired Jimmy Hart after they found out in the
Speaker 2: contract that Jimmy was taking a large portion of their winnings.
Speaker 2: How dare you Jimmy? Dirty? Jimmy so bretton Inval turned
Speaker 2: baby face by firing him. But in this matchup, Jimmy
Speaker 2: runs down with a Megaphone hands it to Axe ax
Speaker 2: hits Brett in the back of the head demolition pick
Speaker 2: up the win here. It's funny. In two years from
Speaker 2: now they'll have a Summer Slam nineteen ninety rematch and
Speaker 2: it's probably the best matchup of that evening. So it's
Speaker 2: just strange. Do you think it's like when you have
Speaker 2: the Heart Foundation going from heels to babyfaces. It's so
Speaker 2: easy at this time. All you have to do is go, hey,
Speaker 2: my evil manager, well I don't like him anymore, and
Speaker 2: all the fans go, all right, well then we.
Speaker 3: Like you too, yeah, you know.
Speaker 1: And I always thought my feeling was always that the
Speaker 1: Heart Foundation were baby faces. I don't know, you know,
Speaker 1: even with Jim knightheart being you know, the kind of
Speaker 1: you know, crazy with them. But I always thought that
Speaker 1: they'd make better baby faces. And I think it was
Speaker 1: always very difficult for people to, you know, accept Brett
Speaker 1: being a heel.
Speaker 3: You know, Brett is that Brett. Everything about him.
Speaker 1: He's kind of like that, you know, that big brother, friend,
Speaker 1: protector kind of guy, even though you know he's not
Speaker 1: he's not fun and you know, fun loving and and
Speaker 1: jovial or you know, joking or something like that. But
Speaker 1: he's always a very serious guy that you'd love to
Speaker 1: have in your corner. So, you know, could he play
Speaker 1: a bad guy, sure, but he was just this guy
Speaker 1: that he felt like he thinks that he knows the
Speaker 1: difference between right and wrong, and that's the side he's
Speaker 1: always going to be on. So you know, you don't
Speaker 1: have to like it or not, but that's just me.
Speaker 1: So I to me, that always translated to a popular babyface.
Speaker 1: So I wasn't you know, the turn because Jimmy's embezzling from.
Speaker 3: Okay, damn you, Jimmy well.
Speaker 1: And it was kind of like people just needed an excuse, like, oh, okay,
Speaker 1: that's why they're going to be good guys now.
Speaker 2: You know, they would have been fine if Jimmy wasn't
Speaker 2: stealing money from them. They were upset about that part.
Speaker 2: So they're like, no, we're out, We're we're done with you.
Speaker 1: Right and and and the thing is with in Demolition,
Speaker 1: and Barry Darzel talks about this too, that you know,
Speaker 1: they would do stuff that was underhanded, but sounds like
Speaker 1: they didn't have to, you know, they they just they
Speaker 1: got away with it, and they were really good at it.
Speaker 1: You know, like he never caught them doing it. That's
Speaker 1: what he would say, you know, like that, So no
Speaker 1: matter what, it always seemed legit. They you couldn't blame
Speaker 1: the ref because they were so you know, it could
Speaker 1: be so dastardly and so conniving to do it. So
Speaker 1: you know that that Uh, the old megaphone.
Speaker 3: How many times was that used? But it worked right?
Speaker 2: So many so many megaphones, so many megaphones. Also, the
Speaker 2: Big Bossman in the feed of kokooby Ware, I think
Speaker 2: kokooby Ware might have the worst pay per view record
Speaker 2: in the w WFS history. I don't think he ever
Speaker 2: won a match on pay per review. But so Big
Speaker 2: Bossman just came in and he dominates, And you know,
Speaker 2: that's pretty much what happened at SummerSlam. Except a fun
Speaker 2: note that the theme song for this event actually turns
Speaker 2: out to be later purpose as the Royal Rumble theme
Speaker 2: song from nineteen one through nine twenty four, so the
Speaker 2: song just changes a little bit, which is a fun fact. Again,
Speaker 2: on a Friday night, if you have trivia about SummerSlam,
Speaker 2: that's your that's your trivia fact. But we have questions.
Speaker 2: Moster Mooney from the fans on Instagram, on Twitter, and
Speaker 2: Facebook about this event for you. Are you ready, sir?
Speaker 1: Yeah, you should mention them before you start firing away
Speaker 1: on those. Give credit to Jim Johnston, who we could
Speaker 1: do a whole show on.
Speaker 3: We should. I've interviewed him several times and.
Speaker 1: Did a actual forum that we did at star Cast
Speaker 1: a few years ago.
Speaker 3: Fascinating guy, and.
Speaker 2: You have a credit he's do you have a copy?
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's it was up. I know that you
Speaker 1: o'conrad has it and wow.
Speaker 2: I know. Yeah it was a great with you and
Speaker 2: Jim on.
Speaker 1: The part, and yeah you can also on Prime Time
Speaker 1: Sean Mooney. But you know, like a fascinating guy, I mean,
Speaker 1: just a talented musician and composer. And imagine that, you know,
Speaker 1: he he could go between all these different genres, you know,
Speaker 1: with different kinds of music depending on who the character.
Speaker 1: Imagine how tough that would be because most people that
Speaker 1: are composers, whoever, they have a you know, a certain
Speaker 1: mindset or style of music that they're very good at.
Speaker 3: And Jim could do, you know, he could whatever it was, you.
Speaker 1: Know, heavy metal, you know, grandiose, fun and uplifting, whatever
Speaker 1: it was, whatever was called for it. He could sit
Speaker 1: there and make that stuff come up, and so he
Speaker 1: certainly deserves an awful lot of credit for changing how
Speaker 1: wrestlers were welcome to the ring just by a few
Speaker 1: notes as we know that were.
Speaker 3: In professional history.
Speaker 1: So Jim Johnson really and a great guy, but deserves
Speaker 1: a lot of credit for what he did for making
Speaker 1: the WWE sound like what it did back then and
Speaker 1: and helping it become what it what it did at
Speaker 1: the time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, people still in today's world complain about entrance music
Speaker 2: and the w because when someone comes out, they're like,
Speaker 2: who and then they see them, Oh, it's that person.
Speaker 2: There's only a few recognizable entrance musics now in today's world.
Speaker 2: When in the Jim Johnson era, one note boom, oh
Speaker 2: I know who that is? Yes, I know that is
Speaker 2: you know they They used to sell CDs and cassettes
Speaker 2: and albums based off of these people's entrance music, so
Speaker 2: we recognized who they were immediately. In today's world, even
Speaker 2: I as a wrestling fan, I'm like, I watch everything
Speaker 2: and who's that? Oh okay, and then I know who
Speaker 2: it is because I see them, not I hear the
Speaker 2: music and go, oh, I.
Speaker 1: Know that is so and you know who else deserves
Speaker 1: credit for some of that music too, was the Mouth
Speaker 1: of the South, all righty, and we talked about today
Speaker 1: all American boys. That was Jimmy. And you know, we
Speaker 1: don't like rock and roll. We'd rather listen to Barry
Speaker 1: Man I low h just look at the lyrics of
Speaker 1: that sometimes. But that's another story. But Jimmy, Jimmy really
Speaker 1: was a very talented songwriter too. So anyway, that's another
Speaker 1: We should do a whole episode just on music.
Speaker 2: I know we'll get su pretty quick playing it. But
Speaker 2: let's get to those questions so the fans can find out.
Speaker 2: Where are we From Twitter? This is from Andrew Haino
Speaker 2: with Macha Man Randy Savage in the top spot. How
Speaker 2: good was his friendship working with Hulk Coogan around this time?
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, you know, I think that there was a
Speaker 1: lot of respect. I think that's pretty much. You could
Speaker 1: say that was a big part of it. They were,
Speaker 1: you know, at one time, I.
Speaker 3: Think, very good friends, and uh.
Speaker 1: You know, the circumstances of the business and and and Elizabeth.
Speaker 1: Not that it was because Randy thought that there was
Speaker 1: some affair or something going on, but Randy felt let
Speaker 1: down later on when when they started to break apart,
Speaker 1: and she was good friends with Linda Hulk, Hogan's wife
Speaker 1: at the time, and uh, I think Randy felt that,
Speaker 1: you know, they were closer or better friends, that Hulk
Speaker 1: should have brought more information to him.
Speaker 3: Go through I'm trying.
Speaker 2: To let me tell you about husband and wives. Your
Speaker 2: on team wife don't.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, but it's also rows and especially in this business. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So that's what that relationship was, you know, at one
Speaker 1: point really good and then it really was fractured. And uh,
Speaker 1: I don't think they'd ever recovered. I think that they did,
Speaker 1: you know, reach some kind of you know, friendship again,
Speaker 1: but it was it was never the same that that
Speaker 1: whole storyline, you know, as we said, how long it
Speaker 1: went on and everything, But there was a lot of
Speaker 1: reality to it as well. There was things that you know,
Speaker 1: changed emotionally for both of them through.
Speaker 3: It, and uh that's that's kind of the way it was.
Speaker 1: I don't think that they were ever best friends to
Speaker 1: any stretch of the imagination, but they were close and
Speaker 1: and I think they both realized what they both brought
Speaker 1: to the business and and doing business together was was
Speaker 1: made them.
Speaker 3: A lot of money.
Speaker 1: So yeah, but as far as you know, being buds
Speaker 1: and everything like that, I don't think it ever really
Speaker 1: came to that, I think, but I do believe that
Speaker 1: there was always a lot of respect for what they
Speaker 1: both accomplished.
Speaker 2: They weren't in friendship and said from TJ L six
Speaker 2: six sixty six, what are your thoughts on Superstibular Graham
Speaker 2: being here on commentary? He felt out of place for me. Interesting,
Speaker 2: I also felt that way too, what about you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, as we talked about at the top of
Speaker 1: this discussion that you know, it was a time when
Speaker 1: they were still forming that broadcast team, which I think
Speaker 1: became one of the best ever when you had Jessein
Speaker 1: and Vincent and then Bobby and Bobby Heenan and Gorilla
Speaker 1: and then you know, Gene and I. You know, I
Speaker 1: had the great fortune to have been a part of
Speaker 1: that too, but as a collective there, you know, just
Speaker 1: all that.
Speaker 3: I really do think.
Speaker 1: It became one of the best announced teams ever in
Speaker 1: professional wrestling. But this was before all this was happening,
Speaker 1: and Vince is still trying to find those pieces and
Speaker 1: Superstar Billy Graham. You know, Vince was very loyal to him,
Speaker 1: that you know, a superstar had worked for him and
Speaker 1: been loyal through those early years there when the transition
Speaker 1: was going on, and so Vince felt that loyalty to
Speaker 1: him and took.
Speaker 3: Care of a superstar.
Speaker 1: And you know, as I said, they were trying to
Speaker 1: find who was going to fit with who. Billy Graham
Speaker 1: had done a lot of he'd done commentary before, but
Speaker 1: as I said, it was kind of this old school approach.
Speaker 1: It wasn't where that Vince wanted to go with it.
Speaker 1: Vince wanted more of that kind of you know, network
Speaker 1: sports team, and he liked the the you know, that
Speaker 1: banter between the two and how they would mix together,
Speaker 1: and uh, you know, Superstar just wasn't that wasn't it,
Speaker 1: and being dropped in there, and him and Gorilla had
Speaker 1: not worked together a lot, so that's that's always tough too.
Speaker 1: But I think it was pretty clear that that wasn't
Speaker 1: going to be a regular.
Speaker 2: Thing from Rick Alcia, since the WWF was running monthly
Speaker 2: house shows at MSG during this time. Was Summer Slim
Speaker 2: eighty eight looked at as just another show or was
Speaker 2: there an awareness that this was going to be a
Speaker 2: big event.
Speaker 3: Oh, it was absolute awareness that it was going to
Speaker 3: be a.
Speaker 1: Big event, you know if you lived in the area
Speaker 1: and you were used to seeing you know, every month
Speaker 1: us coming down there. Uh and they and we did
Speaker 1: great crowds there. I mean I remember that we there
Speaker 1: was always a you know, a pretty good house. But
Speaker 1: you have to remember we spent how many months building
Speaker 1: this up, So even people in the area knew it
Speaker 1: was a big deal. People that would go to the
Speaker 1: shows every month knew it was a big deal. The
Speaker 1: cards that would go there monthly were part of the tour,
Speaker 1: so you would get you know a few of the
Speaker 1: big names there, but it wasn't a packed card like
Speaker 1: you did for we'd see at SummerSlam. So absolutely people
Speaker 1: knew this was a big deal no matter where you were.
Speaker 1: But as far as across the country, and you know,
Speaker 1: you know, everything was New York City and country, it
Speaker 1: was a big apple. It was the mecca. So no
Speaker 1: question everybody, Yeah, no matter where you were, if you
Speaker 1: were in New York City with not just another house
Speaker 1: show for the boys. In a way, it it was because
Speaker 1: as we talked about, they're coming off a loop of
Speaker 1: just their the Dragon, you know, but when they show
Speaker 1: up there that that day it's got to be like,
Speaker 1: I haven't worked for six months and I can't wait
Speaker 1: to get into that ring. Right. No, I'm in tip
Speaker 1: top ring shape, but I'm well rested and ready to go.
Speaker 3: Let's have a good one.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there was none of the yeah no, no, they
Speaker 2: were exhausted from Bruce Helly Hewison. I'm so sorry I
Speaker 2: bought your name, Hey, Sean. SummerSlam eighty eight is my
Speaker 2: all time favorite event over here in New Zealand. Wow,
Speaker 2: New Zealand. It was the first big annual show we
Speaker 2: really heard about. We didn't get it on live TV,
Speaker 2: on pay per view, it wasn't available, but they love
Speaker 2: this and they got it from their local video store.
Speaker 2: What's something you remember from backstage at SummerSlam eighty eight
Speaker 2: that never made TV or would instantly surprised fans? Now,
Speaker 2: that is a good question. Is there something going on
Speaker 2: backstage of this event that you remember that you're like, man,
Speaker 2: I can't believe that wasn't on TV or I can't
Speaker 2: believe this is happening.
Speaker 1: Well, first of all, I addressed that that that's that's
Speaker 1: really cool that you know that he brings up that
Speaker 1: you know all the way on the other side, of
Speaker 1: the world down on that as they say that it's
Speaker 1: getting the world's attention, uh, and saying that, you know,
Speaker 1: like we're talking eighty eight now and and it really
Speaker 1: is becoming you know.
Speaker 3: We always used to say, what the world is watching?
Speaker 1: Well they were now they were they were watching the
Speaker 1: WWF uh And so you know.
Speaker 3: That's that's very clear. As far as.
Speaker 1: Something happening backstage. The only thing I really do remember
Speaker 1: is that when we do when we do these interviews,
Speaker 1: it was you know, because I would did, like you said,
Speaker 1: the post interviews, you know.
Speaker 2: Jesse about him and stealing money and Warrior backstage about yeah, the.
Speaker 1: Warrior in particular, because as I said, we we could,
Speaker 1: we had to do those live because you you didn't know,
Speaker 1: you know, like you were the face paint and everything
Speaker 1: like that.
Speaker 3: So that was what what what.
Speaker 1: Stood out to me is I remember, like, after that match,
Speaker 1: how long it took for him to come back and
Speaker 1: do the to get to me.
Speaker 3: And I don't remember.
Speaker 1: I was like thinking like where is he because you know,
Speaker 1: you think like it after the match and I don't
Speaker 1: remember how.
Speaker 3: But but for me, that's what that's what stood out
Speaker 3: to me, that that.
Speaker 1: The span of time and maybe it was just because
Speaker 1: I was in a time worp, I don't know, but
Speaker 1: I kept thinking, like, it's not that far from where
Speaker 1: I am.
Speaker 2: He just ran the ring run about here.
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, and and uh.
Speaker 1: That there was no discussion of what he was going
Speaker 1: to you know, most of the other guys would I
Speaker 1: would have a.
Speaker 3: Clue, okay, but Jim was in his own.
Speaker 1: World as far as that would and and probably even
Speaker 1: if he wouldn't have told would have told me, I wouldn't.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't have been able to prepare for It was
Speaker 1: just gotta, you know, there we go.
Speaker 2: We're gonna talk about skeletons and sacrifice.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, okay with that right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So that's that's what stood out to me that
Speaker 1: But like, and I was used to where I would
Speaker 1: have some idea where they're going, but with him, it
Speaker 1: was never it was just and and that was my
Speaker 1: first real exposure to what that was going to be
Speaker 1: like because.
Speaker 3: That never changed. It never changed. There was no reason
Speaker 3: to have discussions about, Okay, where are we going with this?
Speaker 3: It was just said, okay, going then when you're not.
Speaker 2: A now, yeah, I can't imagine, like, oh, so you know,
Speaker 2: what are we gonna do today, like you just just
Speaker 2: hold on, all right, That's fine. I forgot to mention
Speaker 2: earlier too, was Alton Warrior on the pre tape because
Speaker 2: they had Superstars and Wrestling Challenges tape two weeks before
Speaker 2: Summer Slam that would air after Summer Slam, So Warrior
Speaker 2: actually has the Intercondinal title on these loops of Superstars
Speaker 2: and Wrestling Challenges on those. So if your kid going
Speaker 2: to the event, you're like, wait a minute, why is
Speaker 2: he had the IC title. It's because he wins it
Speaker 2: two weeks later on TV and then a later on
Speaker 2: because they're obviously pre tape, So I just wanted to
Speaker 2: throw it out there. I totally forgot about that, and I.
Speaker 3: Think what they would do with those, they'd have to
Speaker 3: find a way.
Speaker 2: To give it back to the guy at the end.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and some disqualification or something like that, so.
Speaker 2: You didn't actually win earlier. Folks, come back next time
Speaker 2: and buy the tickets. That's so funny. From from Instagram, though,
Speaker 2: this guy just wants to tell you he loves the poster.
Speaker 2: Readster twenty twenty five. That poster from Summer Slim eighty
Speaker 2: eight is everything I love about wrestling in that era
Speaker 2: and everything that is missing from it now. Yeah, the
Speaker 2: poster with a yet Liz on her hands on Savage
Speaker 2: and Hogan holding Yeah, there's yeah, it's Virgil and Andre
Speaker 2: and it's it's pretty uh, it's pretty nice. From a
Speaker 2: from Greenberg though, How loud and insane was the pot
Speaker 2: for Warriors music when it hit because you were there?
Speaker 2: Can you hear the sounds deep inside the arena?
Speaker 3: Oh yeah?
Speaker 1: And that now, you know that didn't matter where you
Speaker 1: were when you started hearing that dunt You know that
Speaker 1: it was immediate. It was like what you mentioned when
Speaker 1: you know a few notes, that was certainly one of them.
Speaker 1: You know, we always know the undertaken with the Dome,
Speaker 1: you know, but Warrior, it was that beat that dun
Speaker 1: Dun dun d and people would just erupt and Madison
Speaker 1: Square Garden with and I think it holds.
Speaker 3: With twenty thousand but a little more problem and that
Speaker 3: place is.
Speaker 1: Packed, it's it feels like one hundred thousand, and they
Speaker 1: know that noise in there. And the only pop that
Speaker 1: was maybe bigger was when Honky Tonk went down, and
Speaker 1: that was you know, that was I remember that distinctly
Speaker 1: that you know that place just blew up because they
Speaker 1: weren't expecting that. They thought they're going to get something out,
Speaker 1: you know, like the honkey I means the Intercottinental champion
Speaker 1: had been an Intercottinental champion for a long time. He
Speaker 1: always found a way, and the Warrior was just you know,
Speaker 1: this tidle wave that just went in there and.
Speaker 3: Just destroying him in seconds.
Speaker 1: And so yeah, there was two giant pops that day
Speaker 1: in there for that involved the Warrior.
Speaker 2: Well again, thank you guys so much for your questions
Speaker 2: from Instagram and Facebook. Really appreciate keep them coming. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I really appreciate because from now on, you know, if
Speaker 2: you don't know spoiler, we have a lot of episodes
Speaker 2: in the can and so those will be coming esporadically,
Speaker 2: but also new content is coming out connected to those.
Speaker 2: We also have of course backstories with Chris Chambers. So
Speaker 2: there's a lot happening here on Primetime with Sean Mooney.
Speaker 2: We'll have exclusive audio shows, exclusive video shows, lots of
Speaker 2: fun things on Instagram, TikTok and Facebook. So we really
Speaker 2: appreciate you being involved here on Primetime with Sean Mooney,
Speaker 2: especially SummerSlam eighty eight. Your first Summer Slam, your first
Speaker 2: pay per review. So before we wrap this up, any
Speaker 2: more thoughts about Summer Slam.
Speaker 3: Well, it.
Speaker 1: It was great to talk about because it was kind
Speaker 1: of a pivotal point with the company that here we're
Speaker 1: you know, established the Big.
Speaker 3: Four and.
Speaker 1: It was I don't think there was ever a question
Speaker 1: that once did started putting that stuff in the motion
Speaker 1: that this was going to be part of it, and
Speaker 1: uh and and for many years to come.
Speaker 3: There you know, I was kind of spressed.
Speaker 1: I thought, Okay, when there're gonna add another one, I
Speaker 1: I that's what I thought, maybe be every two months.
Speaker 3: But but no.
Speaker 1: But but this was a pivotal time, as we talked
Speaker 1: about during this whole discussion of where you know, things
Speaker 1: were changing and every one of these pay per view events,
Speaker 1: every one of these big events that we were doing,
Speaker 1: we were learning and and uh and finding ways to improve.
Speaker 1: And as we saw, you know, the green screens got better,
Speaker 1: the bad the backgrounds got better, the way they shot
Speaker 1: the matches, what we did backstage was changing, you know,
Speaker 1: bigger and better, involving the audience. So it was all
Speaker 1: part of the evolution of what the w WE was becoming.
Speaker 3: And this was.
Speaker 1: This was a great example of that of of that
Speaker 1: evolution as.
Speaker 3: Things for changing.
Speaker 2: Yep, and next time we well, maybe we'll review this
Speaker 2: in five years and we'll wear our it'sy bitsy teeny
Speaker 2: weenie yellow pokadapakinis. But anyways, I'm not going to maybe
Speaker 2: he will. I'm seeing while he sham MOONI have a
Speaker 2: wonderful day, and we'll see you next time. Bye bye.
Speaker 2: It's a cold indige, I'll tell you, he tongue. Go
Speaker 2: to the light, the fantasy snap in the Rafiel history,
Speaker 2: down to the cold and tell me to buy