Speaker 1: It seems for going back in time one more time. Well,
Speaker 1: we seem to do that regularly around here, this time
Speaker 1: by going back in time with some Black America dragging
Speaker 1: old fashioned pastors who force women to apologize for getting
Speaker 1: themselves up to the doff without putting a ring on
Speaker 1: their finger. Eron.
Speaker 2: Yeah. People are outraged after a video was posted online
Speaker 2: of a young unidentified woman apologizing to her church for
Speaker 2: getting pregnant out of wedlock. The pastor told the young
Speaker 2: woman she wasn't going to get a baby shower and
Speaker 2: that no one in the church would attend one. Another
Speaker 2: church member who confronted the pastor was eventually kicked out
Speaker 2: of the church because of it. And there doesn't seem
Speaker 2: to be any consequences for the man whom pregnated her.
Speaker 2: Why are we still shaming people, especially women, for having
Speaker 2: sex and getting pregnant. What will the consequences of this
Speaker 2: behavior be to society and the religions? This story is
Speaker 2: from the Root by Phoenix S. Hallie, published January ninth,
Speaker 2: twenty twenty five.
Speaker 1: What's a load of count? There are some times I
Speaker 1: read all and there are sometimes when I see society
Speaker 1: at last and I go misanthropy has a lot of
Speaker 1: you know, good qualities here being a mister thrope, can
Speaker 1: you know have its attractions when you see all of this,
Speaker 1: that and the other. Because if this is what society
Speaker 1: is becoming, where we are shouting into the internet instead
Speaker 1: of actually doing things, and we are dragging people in
Speaker 1: front of crowds of people and going naughty, naughty, naughty,
Speaker 1: you did something naughty, naughty, naughty in Monty Python language,
Speaker 1: misanthropy has a lot of good qualities that you know,
Speaker 1: go yes, I can't stand society as it's currently constituted
Speaker 1: on Oh god this can we.
Speaker 3: Please just stab uslaze Jamie like like like this part girl.
Speaker 3: I feel so bad for her because, yeah, I guarantee,
Speaker 3: I guarantee she did not get a proper sex education.
Speaker 3: I guarantee that the dad didn't have to do the
Speaker 3: same thing. I guarantee.
Speaker 2: That when her.
Speaker 3: Family found out that you know, she you know, did
Speaker 3: the Devil's tango and then they went running to the
Speaker 3: past or go, what do we do? Well, if we
Speaker 3: shame her, then it's not going to happen again. And
Speaker 3: maybe another woman, you know, young woman and the congregation
Speaker 3: will not have sex until so he puts a ring
Speaker 3: on it. That's a bullshit.
Speaker 1: She how do you know she made a mistake? Like
Speaker 1: her mistake was.
Speaker 3: That you know, she didn't she didn't know to ask
Speaker 3: a man to put her like, you know, to protect herself.
Speaker 3: But she didn't have the.
Speaker 1: Education to do that.
Speaker 3: But but no, let me explain, like and like the
Speaker 3: thing is though, it's like, not only is she it's
Speaker 3: you know, a social tab move to be even now,
Speaker 3: even twenty five, to have a baby outside of weblock.
Speaker 3: It's so much harder when you're young. And the added
Speaker 3: pressure of being slugshamed in front of your congregation and
Speaker 3: having to apologize for doing something that's natural. It's bonkers.
Speaker 1: It's bonkers.
Speaker 3: And I feel so bad for her, and I want
Speaker 3: to get up there hanging out the congregation and be like,
Speaker 3: what the fuck you doing?
Speaker 1: What are you doing? But one are the drills we
Speaker 1: sell you that it's a mistake to you know, have
Speaker 1: unprotected sex and to get pregnant. We are making a
Speaker 1: lot of assumptions here, we are.
Speaker 2: I'm not saying that.
Speaker 4: Okay, I am making this fair.
Speaker 3: I will I will retract what I said.
Speaker 1: I will say I.
Speaker 3: Made an assumption based on very little evidence, and it's
Speaker 3: probably because of my feelings about this, and I I'm
Speaker 3: going to oh what I said, and I'm going to
Speaker 3: retract it and say, allegedly this may have happened, and.
Speaker 1: There's no evidence to the contrary that she's not pregnant.
Speaker 1: But what I'm saying here is that a lot of
Speaker 1: the nonsensical victriol is based on just assumptions. We have
Speaker 1: assumed that she didn't want to get pregnant. We have
Speaker 1: no way of knowing that she may very well have
Speaker 1: said to them like, look, I want to get pregnant.
Speaker 1: The person's age is not known. She imagined, look I
Speaker 1: quite like you, I quite want a kid. Let's let's
Speaker 1: see if we can do this. Or she may have
Speaker 1: just gone, I just want to have sex. I don't
Speaker 1: understand why there is this belief that women are these
Speaker 1: passive creatures with sex is done to them as opposed
Speaker 1: to sex being done with them or by them or
Speaker 1: for them. It's this misogynistic assumption that the man has
Speaker 1: sex with a woman or does sex to a woman,
Speaker 1: not a man and a woman having sex together, which
Speaker 1: is so ridiculous. In this whole article and this whole situation,
Speaker 1: and it lays bare misogyny up the wazoo here that
Speaker 1: she is dragged in front of people, and as Aaron
Speaker 1: has said, he was nine hundred and ninety nine times
Speaker 1: out of one hundred thousand, probably never going to get that,
Speaker 1: a nine ninety thousand out of a million, never going
Speaker 1: to get that, because it's seen as him having a
Speaker 1: coal host, whereas she's a naughty, dirty slot what a thold? Well,
Speaker 1: I mean, we are a quarter of the way through
Speaker 1: the twenty first century. For crying out loud, we are
Speaker 1: a quarter of the way through it. And we are
Speaker 1: still halfway through the nineteenth century, let alone the twentieth century,
Speaker 1: still even halfway through the eighteen fifties with this nonsense. Well,
Speaker 1: what we're gonna do. We're gonna send them off to
Speaker 1: the Irish laundry, So we're gonna send them off to
Speaker 1: you know, half the child in secret. I mean, what
Speaker 1: is this? I mean, Aaron, is this a world where you,
Speaker 1: a man, are comfortable with other men getting away with
Speaker 1: this kind of nonsense and women being the one at
Speaker 1: the forefront of being blamed up the wallzoo.
Speaker 2: No, I'm not comfortable with this at all. I think
Speaker 2: it's awful to shame people for having sex, especially women
Speaker 2: and not men. I think this was an awful thing
Speaker 2: to do to this person, because what it does is
Speaker 2: when you shame people out sex, it makes them repress
Speaker 2: their sexuality, and then when it is appropriate to start
Speaker 2: having sex, they you can't just you can't just unrepress yourself.
Speaker 2: We you know, you can't just flip turn off and
Speaker 2: then turn it back on. All that repression and all
Speaker 2: that guilt and all that shame. It has an effect.
Speaker 2: It has a lasting effect. And you can talk to many,
Speaker 2: many women who grew up in this kind of a
Speaker 2: shame culture where women were responsible for men's desires, responsible
Speaker 2: for not being sexual, but yet when they got married,
Speaker 2: we're supposed to then be sexual. That that kind of
Speaker 2: a culture leads to women who just aren't sexual and
Speaker 2: they don't know how to be sexual. And as a
Speaker 2: man that that's not that doesn't help me enjoy sex
Speaker 2: more if my partner doesn't isn't in touch with their sexuality.
Speaker 2: And so if you're gonna shame doesn't work. Education works.
Speaker 2: When you teach people about sex, then they're they're gonna
Speaker 2: know more and they're gonna be able to enjoy it
Speaker 2: more and their partners are gonna be able to enjoy it.
Speaker 1: I can see that there is some facial expressions from
Speaker 1: Helen here, who is jumping to get back in. So, Helen,
Speaker 1: why don't you tell us about how wonderful sex is.
Speaker 3: As someone that is very sex positive and a polysexual
Speaker 3: and polyamorous person.
Speaker 4: Very fine, it's great, It's great time, whole time. Remember
Speaker 4: as one an enthusiasticus enthusiastic consent.
Speaker 3: Okay, Now, from the work I've done with like recovering
Speaker 3: from religion, purity culture fucks people up. It really does.
Speaker 1: This type of.
Speaker 3: Ship that this poor like this girl had to go through,
Speaker 3: like go in for the congregation and be like, I'm sorry, y'all,
Speaker 3: I you know, you know, had sex and I got pregnant,
Speaker 3: you know, and like you point out, maybe she might
Speaker 3: have wanted it, but the pressure from the religious community
Speaker 3: is that you're you're a dirty slut and now you
Speaker 3: have to apologize because you want to have sex. And
Speaker 3: this is and they're probably thinking that this is just
Speaker 3: a consequence of your actions, and it's like this is
Speaker 3: a private matter. Regardless of the circumstances. This should be
Speaker 3: between her and if she is under it, like, you know,
Speaker 3: I don't know where age I'm gonna I'm going to
Speaker 3: take the assumption that she's, you know, under eighteen years old.
Speaker 1: Okay, I'm just gonna take it. I'm taking she's younger
Speaker 1: than she is.
Speaker 5: She's younger the fucking like I said, like late homework guys,
Speaker 5: Like I just cut things yesterday, so I probably miss
Speaker 5: some details.
Speaker 2: The article does not say hell old she is. They
Speaker 2: just call her a young woman.
Speaker 1: Or the other.
Speaker 3: Whether she's like if she was seventeen or twenty seven,
Speaker 3: I don't really fucking care, because at this point, what
Speaker 3: we're talking about is forcing someone just because you think
Speaker 3: that a man is the arbiture of a woman's sexuality
Speaker 3: and what she does and should be in control of,
Speaker 3: like when she gets pregnant, for example. Other like this
Speaker 3: is off a bunch of like arbitrary bullshit that this
Speaker 3: poor girl had to go through. And I'm just sitting
Speaker 3: there going like this is what purity culture does. It
Speaker 3: puts these ideas, and people said it's just damaging to
Speaker 3: people of all genders because it says that, like women
Speaker 3: are responsible for men's sexuality. If you're tempted. It's your fault,
Speaker 3: it's not the man's fault, even though we all have
Speaker 3: natural desires. Okay, that's just disgusting. And also, well it
Speaker 3: doesn't What does this teach not only her but the
Speaker 3: congregation as a whole that your sexual desires are disgusting,
Speaker 3: that your sexual desires are something that should be shamed,
Speaker 3: and you better fall in line. And if you don't,
Speaker 3: like you know, follow the super special book and follow
Speaker 3: the rules, you are going to be shamed. You are
Speaker 3: going to be publicly humiliated. And that's talks into disgusting.
Speaker 1: That's that's abusive.
Speaker 3: This is an abusive behavior.
Speaker 2: Absolutely looked at thousands of years old, a little bit outdated, alleged.
Speaker 3: And I guarantee there's better sexual animals written at the
Speaker 3: time in that fucking book.
Speaker 2: There was no birth out of birth control allegedly allegedly.
Speaker 1: Allegedly anyway, But there is a there is a there
Speaker 1: is a darker side to this story, and it's not
Speaker 1: the church. It's social media itself. It's the mob that
Speaker 1: has impaled, impaneled itself, sorry as the arbiter here, that
Speaker 1: it's made all these assumptions and that it impaneled itself,
Speaker 1: whether you're on what was once called the bird app,
Speaker 1: or you're on the other apps, or you're on the
Speaker 1: cloud app, or I don't know, there is just this
Speaker 1: whole plethora of these things that are floating around, or
Speaker 1: you're on the clock app. I don't know whichever ones
Speaker 1: you're on. Nowadays, social media white the fact that this
Speaker 1: has become a way of individuals getting their moralism out,
Speaker 1: shall we say, as opposed to actually going outside and
Speaker 1: doing something about it, like, for example, helping educate the individuals.
Speaker 1: They're just going to sit at a keyboard or probably
Speaker 1: more likely sit in a tough phone and scream into
Speaker 1: the void, and it's going to change, little squat, or
Speaker 1: it's going to change absolutely nothing, because the last time
Speaker 1: social media changed something was never social media doesn't change things.
Speaker 1: Social media is just an echo chamber of people shouting
Speaker 1: about whatever. The rage bait of the day is. This
Speaker 1: article we have in front of us is the rage
Speaker 1: bait of the day, and the fact that the rage
Speaker 1: bait of the day has missed the whole purpose here
Speaker 1: and has decided to pillary this man who dragged her
Speaker 1: in front of it, when we don't know the circumstances
Speaker 1: behind it. He could very well have been pressured by
Speaker 1: the congregation itself to do it, or he could be
Speaker 1: the instigator. We simply don't know that to ignore the
Speaker 1: woman in all of this and basically treat her like
Speaker 1: she's some afterthought and the man that she shagged for
Speaker 1: crying out loud to have to realize, hang on a minute,
Speaker 1: I've slept with this woman we believe consensually. There's no
Speaker 1: evidence in the article that it was not consensual. Why
Speaker 1: on earth are you doing this? Yes, she's pregnant, and
Speaker 1: yes I'm going to be the parent of this child.
Speaker 1: What does that say to the bloke who has gone
Speaker 1: off and shagged her? Does he say, hang on a minute,
Speaker 1: I feel very welcome here that you know, we're going
Speaker 1: to be adults here, We're going to discuss things. What
Speaker 1: did they say? You're just as much of a tur
Speaker 1: as we believe she is. I don't.
Speaker 3: I just like the whole thing is just weird and
Speaker 3: stupid and arbitrary because it teaches him that he doesn't
Speaker 3: have to fix the same consequence because he was a
Speaker 3: penis that's what it teaches him.
Speaker 1: Yes, it teaches him double standards, but The other thing
Speaker 1: is the thing.
Speaker 3: He had to do the same thing, and it wasn't recorded,
Speaker 3: it wasn't put out on social media.
Speaker 1: That's auming he didn't know that.
Speaker 3: But I think it was a point of this particular
Speaker 3: church or reposted it to make an example of her,
Speaker 3: because we tend to such shame woman in this culture,
Speaker 3: but we don't do the same to men because misogyny.
Speaker 2: So so social media is a two edge sort well,
Speaker 2: And I hear your point that social media is going
Speaker 2: to lead to the downfall civilization. I think I totally
Speaker 2: agree with that.
Speaker 1: Lead to just nothing, but noting the down civilization will
Speaker 1: be closed by other things. So social media and activity
Speaker 1: on social media is not going to leave the downfall
Speaker 1: of civilization.
Speaker 2: But I think it also does good. And I think
Speaker 2: this situation does good too. I think it does good
Speaker 2: to have a video like this posted and and see
Speaker 2: people's reactions to it, and to see the out to
Speaker 2: see some of the outrage. Maybe this is going to
Speaker 2: affect some young person who's watching the video, and maybe
Speaker 2: they have conservative views and maybe watching this girl gage
Speaker 2: slight shame and see people's reaction to it is going
Speaker 2: to help them realize, hey, I don't like that. That's
Speaker 2: not okay, that's not cool. I'm going to stay away
Speaker 2: from religion or that's not cool. You know, I think
Speaker 2: it's okay to be sexual and sexuality isn't.
Speaker 1: It just modern day vigilanteism?
Speaker 2: What do you mean by vigilanteism?
Speaker 1: Like, so they have decided to impanel themselves as the
Speaker 1: arbiters here in the same way that are their individuals
Speaker 1: having paneled themselves as vigilantes without knowing the full story.
Speaker 1: I bring you up the MacAlpine case in the UK
Speaker 1: where a group of social media people just said, this
Speaker 1: person's clearly a pedophile. It's not a big leap here
Speaker 1: because they've decided to jump on something, get everyone inflamed,
Speaker 1: get everyone over the top, and it's just low level vitism.
Speaker 2: Yes, it could descend into vigilanteism. I don't know. I
Speaker 2: didn't read all the responses to this video. The ones
Speaker 2: that were too many, There are too many, the ones
Speaker 2: that they'd cheer and picked from this for this article
Speaker 2: seemed to be just supporting anti shame around sexuality, and
Speaker 2: that good. I am for right, I am not I'm
Speaker 2: not condoning vigilanteism and ganging up on people. Not, you know,
Speaker 2: making sure that the truth comes out. But I think
Speaker 2: it's also important that we see the value in the Internet.
Speaker 2: The Twitter sort of the Internet and social media is
Speaker 2: that we get we get exposed to new viewpoints and
Speaker 2: new ways of seeing the world, and I think that's
Speaker 2: the valuable part of that. The other side of that
Speaker 2: sort is if you're not careful, you can end up
Speaker 2: in an echo chamber, and you can end up with vigilantism.
Speaker 2: And so it's you have to be careful.
Speaker 1: But has some social media silent itself off into its
Speaker 1: own little echo chambers itself. So you have the left
Speaker 1: wing blue Sky, you have the right wing X, you
Speaker 1: have the not really knowing what it is, but it's
Speaker 1: not right wing. It's not left wing with threads but
Speaker 1: it's more left wing threads. And then you've got TikTok,
Speaker 1: which is, you know, much more of a younger demographic there,
Speaker 1: which is all talking to itself. So it hasn't social
Speaker 1: media siloed itself already into its own personal echo chambers.
Speaker 2: I have no idea. I don't know, I don't I've
Speaker 2: never heard any data about it. I think it's a risk.
Speaker 2: I think people that are on social media, you have
Speaker 2: to be really careful about that risk. I think social
Speaker 2: media can do good. I think it needs to be
Speaker 2: regulated and it's not I think. I think algorithms need
Speaker 2: to be regulated because these companies, they have algorithms that
Speaker 2: decide what you see, Like, all they care about is engagement. Right,
Speaker 2: You're the product that they're selling to advertisers, and so
Speaker 2: they want you on their apps as much as possible,
Speaker 2: and so they're going to send you things that engage
Speaker 2: you and keep you on the apps and keep you
Speaker 2: engaged as much as possible. And I think if that
Speaker 2: needs to be regulated to a certain instance, you don't
Speaker 2: get and those algrams can give you a skewed perspective
Speaker 2: on what the world is really like. It can give
Speaker 2: you a skewed perspective on what people actually think because
Speaker 2: all you're seeing is stuff that gets you engaged and
Speaker 2: keeps you engaged, and that doesn't necessarily reflect reality. And
Speaker 2: so that's why I think social media and their algrams,
Speaker 2: they need to be regulated so that you get a
Speaker 2: little more reality out there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but as Jerry Springer would say at the end
Speaker 1: of his shows, take care of yourselves and be kind
Speaker 1: to each other. And watch more of our stuff here.