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<v Speaker 1>It seems for going back in time one more time. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>we seem to do that regularly around here, this time

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<v Speaker 1>by going back in time with some Black America dragging

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<v Speaker 1>old fashioned pastors who force women to apologize for getting

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<v Speaker 1>themselves up to the doff without putting a ring on

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<v Speaker 1>their finger. Eron.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. People are outraged after a video was posted online

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<v Speaker 2>of a young unidentified woman apologizing to her church for

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<v Speaker 2>getting pregnant out of wedlock. The pastor told the young

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<v Speaker 2>woman she wasn't going to get a baby shower and

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<v Speaker 2>that no one in the church would attend one. Another

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<v Speaker 2>church member who confronted the pastor was eventually kicked out

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<v Speaker 2>of the church because of it. And there doesn't seem

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<v Speaker 2>to be any consequences for the man whom pregnated her.

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<v Speaker 2>Why are we still shaming people, especially women, for having

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<v Speaker 2>sex and getting pregnant. What will the consequences of this

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<v Speaker 2>behavior be to society and the religions? This story is

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<v Speaker 2>from the Root by Phoenix S. Hallie, published January ninth,

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<v Speaker 2>twenty twenty five.

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<v Speaker 1>What's a load of count? There are some times I

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<v Speaker 1>read all and there are sometimes when I see society

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<v Speaker 1>at last and I go misanthropy has a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>you know, good qualities here being a mister thrope, can

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<v Speaker 1>you know have its attractions when you see all of this,

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<v Speaker 1>that and the other. Because if this is what society

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<v Speaker 1>is becoming, where we are shouting into the internet instead

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<v Speaker 1>of actually doing things, and we are dragging people in

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<v Speaker 1>front of crowds of people and going naughty, naughty, naughty,

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<v Speaker 1>you did something naughty, naughty, naughty in Monty Python language,

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<v Speaker 1>misanthropy has a lot of good qualities that you know,

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<v Speaker 1>go yes, I can't stand society as it's currently constituted

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<v Speaker 1>on Oh god this can we.

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<v Speaker 3>Please just stab uslaze Jamie like like like this part girl.

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<v Speaker 3>I feel so bad for her because, yeah, I guarantee,

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<v Speaker 3>I guarantee she did not get a proper sex education.

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<v Speaker 3>I guarantee that the dad didn't have to do the

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<v Speaker 3>same thing. I guarantee.

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<v Speaker 2>That when her.

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<v Speaker 3>Family found out that you know, she you know, did

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<v Speaker 3>the Devil's tango and then they went running to the

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<v Speaker 3>past or go, what do we do? Well, if we

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<v Speaker 3>shame her, then it's not going to happen again. And

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<v Speaker 3>maybe another woman, you know, young woman and the congregation

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<v Speaker 3>will not have sex until so he puts a ring

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<v Speaker 3>on it. That's a bullshit.

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<v Speaker 1>She how do you know she made a mistake? Like

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<v Speaker 1>her mistake was.

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<v Speaker 3>That you know, she didn't she didn't know to ask

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<v Speaker 3>a man to put her like, you know, to protect herself.

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<v Speaker 3>But she didn't have the.

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<v Speaker 1>Education to do that.

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<v Speaker 3>But but no, let me explain, like and like the

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<v Speaker 3>thing is though, it's like, not only is she it's

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<v Speaker 3>you know, a social tab move to be even now,

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<v Speaker 3>even twenty five, to have a baby outside of weblock.

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<v Speaker 3>It's so much harder when you're young. And the added

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<v Speaker 3>pressure of being slugshamed in front of your congregation and

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<v Speaker 3>having to apologize for doing something that's natural. It's bonkers.

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<v Speaker 1>It's bonkers.

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<v Speaker 3>And I feel so bad for her, and I want

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<v Speaker 3>to get up there hanging out the congregation and be like,

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<v Speaker 3>what the fuck you doing?

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<v Speaker 1>What are you doing? But one are the drills we

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<v Speaker 1>sell you that it's a mistake to you know, have

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<v Speaker 1>unprotected sex and to get pregnant. We are making a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of assumptions here, we are.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm not saying that.

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<v Speaker 4>Okay, I am making this fair.

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<v Speaker 3>I will I will retract what I said.

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<v Speaker 1>I will say I.

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<v Speaker 3>Made an assumption based on very little evidence, and it's

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<v Speaker 3>probably because of my feelings about this, and I I'm

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<v Speaker 3>going to oh what I said, and I'm going to

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<v Speaker 3>retract it and say, allegedly this may have happened, and.

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<v Speaker 1>There's no evidence to the contrary that she's not pregnant.

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<v Speaker 1>But what I'm saying here is that a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>the nonsensical victriol is based on just assumptions. We have

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<v Speaker 1>assumed that she didn't want to get pregnant. We have

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<v Speaker 1>no way of knowing that she may very well have

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<v Speaker 1>said to them like, look, I want to get pregnant.

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<v Speaker 1>The person's age is not known. She imagined, look I

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<v Speaker 1>quite like you, I quite want a kid. Let's let's

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<v Speaker 1>see if we can do this. Or she may have

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<v Speaker 1>just gone, I just want to have sex. I don't

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<v Speaker 1>understand why there is this belief that women are these

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<v Speaker 1>passive creatures with sex is done to them as opposed

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<v Speaker 1>to sex being done with them or by them or

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<v Speaker 1>for them. It's this misogynistic assumption that the man has

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<v Speaker 1>sex with a woman or does sex to a woman,

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<v Speaker 1>not a man and a woman having sex together, which

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<v Speaker 1>is so ridiculous. In this whole article and this whole situation,

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<v Speaker 1>and it lays bare misogyny up the wazoo here that

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<v Speaker 1>she is dragged in front of people, and as Aaron

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<v Speaker 1>has said, he was nine hundred and ninety nine times

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<v Speaker 1>out of one hundred thousand, probably never going to get that,

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<v Speaker 1>a nine ninety thousand out of a million, never going

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<v Speaker 1>to get that, because it's seen as him having a

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<v Speaker 1>coal host, whereas she's a naughty, dirty slot what a thold? Well,

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, we are a quarter of the way through

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<v Speaker 1>the twenty first century. For crying out loud, we are

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<v Speaker 1>a quarter of the way through it. And we are

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<v Speaker 1>still halfway through the nineteenth century, let alone the twentieth century,

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<v Speaker 1>still even halfway through the eighteen fifties with this nonsense. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>what we're gonna do. We're gonna send them off to

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<v Speaker 1>the Irish laundry, So we're gonna send them off to

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<v Speaker 1>you know, half the child in secret. I mean, what

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<v Speaker 1>is this? I mean, Aaron, is this a world where you,

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<v Speaker 1>a man, are comfortable with other men getting away with

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<v Speaker 1>this kind of nonsense and women being the one at

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<v Speaker 1>the forefront of being blamed up the wallzoo.

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<v Speaker 2>No, I'm not comfortable with this at all. I think

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<v Speaker 2>it's awful to shame people for having sex, especially women

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<v Speaker 2>and not men. I think this was an awful thing

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<v Speaker 2>to do to this person, because what it does is

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<v Speaker 2>when you shame people out sex, it makes them repress

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<v Speaker 2>their sexuality, and then when it is appropriate to start

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<v Speaker 2>having sex, they you can't just you can't just unrepress yourself.

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<v Speaker 2>We you know, you can't just flip turn off and

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<v Speaker 2>then turn it back on. All that repression and all

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<v Speaker 2>that guilt and all that shame. It has an effect.

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<v Speaker 2>It has a lasting effect. And you can talk to many,

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<v Speaker 2>many women who grew up in this kind of a

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<v Speaker 2>shame culture where women were responsible for men's desires, responsible

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<v Speaker 2>for not being sexual, but yet when they got married,

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<v Speaker 2>we're supposed to then be sexual. That that kind of

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<v Speaker 2>a culture leads to women who just aren't sexual and

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<v Speaker 2>they don't know how to be sexual. And as a

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<v Speaker 2>man that that's not that doesn't help me enjoy sex

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<v Speaker 2>more if my partner doesn't isn't in touch with their sexuality.

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<v Speaker 2>And so if you're gonna shame doesn't work. Education works.

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<v Speaker 2>When you teach people about sex, then they're they're gonna

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<v Speaker 2>know more and they're gonna be able to enjoy it

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<v Speaker 2>more and their partners are gonna be able to enjoy it.

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<v Speaker 1>I can see that there is some facial expressions from

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<v Speaker 1>Helen here, who is jumping to get back in. So, Helen,

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<v Speaker 1>why don't you tell us about how wonderful sex is.

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<v Speaker 3>As someone that is very sex positive and a polysexual

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<v Speaker 3>and polyamorous person.

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<v Speaker 4>Very fine, it's great, It's great time, whole time. Remember

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<v Speaker 4>as one an enthusiasticus enthusiastic consent.

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<v Speaker 3>Okay, Now, from the work I've done with like recovering

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<v Speaker 3>from religion, purity culture fucks people up. It really does.

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<v Speaker 1>This type of.

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<v Speaker 3>Ship that this poor like this girl had to go through,

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<v Speaker 3>like go in for the congregation and be like, I'm sorry, y'all,

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<v Speaker 3>I you know, you know, had sex and I got pregnant,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, and like you point out, maybe she might

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<v Speaker 3>have wanted it, but the pressure from the religious community

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<v Speaker 3>is that you're you're a dirty slut and now you

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<v Speaker 3>have to apologize because you want to have sex. And

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<v Speaker 3>this is and they're probably thinking that this is just

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<v Speaker 3>a consequence of your actions, and it's like this is

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<v Speaker 3>a private matter. Regardless of the circumstances. This should be

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<v Speaker 3>between her and if she is under it, like, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>I don't know where age I'm gonna I'm going to

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<v Speaker 3>take the assumption that she's, you know, under eighteen years old.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, I'm just gonna take it. I'm taking she's younger

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<v Speaker 1>than she is.

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<v Speaker 5>She's younger the fucking like I said, like late homework guys,

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<v Speaker 5>Like I just cut things yesterday, so I probably miss

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<v Speaker 5>some details.

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<v Speaker 2>The article does not say hell old she is. They

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<v Speaker 2>just call her a young woman.

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<v Speaker 1>Or the other.

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<v Speaker 3>Whether she's like if she was seventeen or twenty seven,

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<v Speaker 3>I don't really fucking care, because at this point, what

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<v Speaker 3>we're talking about is forcing someone just because you think

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<v Speaker 3>that a man is the arbiture of a woman's sexuality

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<v Speaker 3>and what she does and should be in control of,

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<v Speaker 3>like when she gets pregnant, for example. Other like this

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<v Speaker 3>is off a bunch of like arbitrary bullshit that this

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<v Speaker 3>poor girl had to go through. And I'm just sitting

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<v Speaker 3>there going like this is what purity culture does. It

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<v Speaker 3>puts these ideas, and people said it's just damaging to

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<v Speaker 3>people of all genders because it says that, like women

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<v Speaker 3>are responsible for men's sexuality. If you're tempted. It's your fault,

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<v Speaker 3>it's not the man's fault, even though we all have

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<v Speaker 3>natural desires. Okay, that's just disgusting. And also, well it

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<v Speaker 3>doesn't What does this teach not only her but the

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<v Speaker 3>congregation as a whole that your sexual desires are disgusting,

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<v Speaker 3>that your sexual desires are something that should be shamed,

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<v Speaker 3>and you better fall in line. And if you don't,

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<v Speaker 3>like you know, follow the super special book and follow

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<v Speaker 3>the rules, you are going to be shamed. You are

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<v Speaker 3>going to be publicly humiliated. And that's talks into disgusting.

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<v Speaker 1>That's that's abusive.

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<v Speaker 3>This is an abusive behavior.

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<v Speaker 2>Absolutely looked at thousands of years old, a little bit outdated, alleged.

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<v Speaker 3>And I guarantee there's better sexual animals written at the

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<v Speaker 3>time in that fucking book.

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<v Speaker 2>There was no birth out of birth control allegedly allegedly.

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<v Speaker 1>Allegedly anyway, But there is a there is a there

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<v Speaker 1>is a darker side to this story, and it's not

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<v Speaker 1>the church. It's social media itself. It's the mob that

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<v Speaker 1>has impaled, impaneled itself, sorry as the arbiter here, that

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<v Speaker 1>it's made all these assumptions and that it impaneled itself,

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<v Speaker 1>whether you're on what was once called the bird app,

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<v Speaker 1>or you're on the other apps, or you're on the

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<v Speaker 1>cloud app, or I don't know, there is just this

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<v Speaker 1>whole plethora of these things that are floating around, or

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<v Speaker 1>you're on the clock app. I don't know whichever ones

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<v Speaker 1>you're on. Nowadays, social media white the fact that this

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<v Speaker 1>has become a way of individuals getting their moralism out,

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<v Speaker 1>shall we say, as opposed to actually going outside and

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<v Speaker 1>doing something about it, like, for example, helping educate the individuals.

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<v Speaker 1>They're just going to sit at a keyboard or probably

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<v Speaker 1>more likely sit in a tough phone and scream into

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<v Speaker 1>the void, and it's going to change, little squat, or

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<v Speaker 1>it's going to change absolutely nothing, because the last time

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<v Speaker 1>social media changed something was never social media doesn't change things.

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<v Speaker 1>Social media is just an echo chamber of people shouting

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<v Speaker 1>about whatever. The rage bait of the day is. This

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<v Speaker 1>article we have in front of us is the rage

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<v Speaker 1>bait of the day, and the fact that the rage

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<v Speaker 1>bait of the day has missed the whole purpose here

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<v Speaker 1>and has decided to pillary this man who dragged her

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<v Speaker 1>in front of it, when we don't know the circumstances

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<v Speaker 1>behind it. He could very well have been pressured by

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<v Speaker 1>the congregation itself to do it, or he could be

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<v Speaker 1>the instigator. We simply don't know that to ignore the

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<v Speaker 1>woman in all of this and basically treat her like

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<v Speaker 1>she's some afterthought and the man that she shagged for

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<v Speaker 1>crying out loud to have to realize, hang on a minute,

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<v Speaker 1>I've slept with this woman we believe consensually. There's no

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<v Speaker 1>evidence in the article that it was not consensual. Why

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<v Speaker 1>on earth are you doing this? Yes, she's pregnant, and

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<v Speaker 1>yes I'm going to be the parent of this child.

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<v Speaker 1>What does that say to the bloke who has gone

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<v Speaker 1>off and shagged her? Does he say, hang on a minute,

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<v Speaker 1>I feel very welcome here that you know, we're going

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<v Speaker 1>to be adults here, We're going to discuss things. What

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<v Speaker 1>did they say? You're just as much of a tur

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<v Speaker 1>as we believe she is. I don't.

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<v Speaker 3>I just like the whole thing is just weird and

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<v Speaker 3>stupid and arbitrary because it teaches him that he doesn't

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<v Speaker 3>have to fix the same consequence because he was a

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<v Speaker 3>penis that's what it teaches him.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, it teaches him double standards, but The other thing

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<v Speaker 1>is the thing.

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<v Speaker 3>He had to do the same thing, and it wasn't recorded,

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<v Speaker 3>it wasn't put out on social media.

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<v Speaker 1>That's auming he didn't know that.

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<v Speaker 3>But I think it was a point of this particular

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<v Speaker 3>church or reposted it to make an example of her,

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<v Speaker 3>because we tend to such shame woman in this culture,

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<v Speaker 3>but we don't do the same to men because misogyny.

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<v Speaker 2>So so social media is a two edge sort well,

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<v Speaker 2>And I hear your point that social media is going

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<v Speaker 2>to lead to the downfall civilization. I think I totally

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<v Speaker 2>agree with that.

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<v Speaker 1>Lead to just nothing, but noting the down civilization will

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<v Speaker 1>be closed by other things. So social media and activity

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<v Speaker 1>on social media is not going to leave the downfall

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<v Speaker 1>of civilization.

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<v Speaker 2>But I think it also does good. And I think

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<v Speaker 2>this situation does good too. I think it does good

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<v Speaker 2>to have a video like this posted and and see

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<v Speaker 2>people's reactions to it, and to see the out to

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<v Speaker 2>see some of the outrage. Maybe this is going to

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<v Speaker 2>affect some young person who's watching the video, and maybe

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<v Speaker 2>they have conservative views and maybe watching this girl gage

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<v Speaker 2>slight shame and see people's reaction to it is going

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<v Speaker 2>to help them realize, hey, I don't like that. That's

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<v Speaker 2>not okay, that's not cool. I'm going to stay away

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<v Speaker 2>from religion or that's not cool. You know, I think

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<v Speaker 2>it's okay to be sexual and sexuality isn't.

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<v Speaker 1>It just modern day vigilanteism?

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<v Speaker 2>What do you mean by vigilanteism?

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<v Speaker 1>Like, so they have decided to impanel themselves as the

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<v Speaker 1>arbiters here in the same way that are their individuals

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<v Speaker 1>having paneled themselves as vigilantes without knowing the full story.

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<v Speaker 1>I bring you up the MacAlpine case in the UK

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<v Speaker 1>where a group of social media people just said, this

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<v Speaker 1>person's clearly a pedophile. It's not a big leap here

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<v Speaker 1>because they've decided to jump on something, get everyone inflamed,

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<v Speaker 1>get everyone over the top, and it's just low level vitism.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, it could descend into vigilanteism. I don't know. I

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<v Speaker 2>didn't read all the responses to this video. The ones

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<v Speaker 2>that were too many, There are too many, the ones

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<v Speaker 2>that they'd cheer and picked from this for this article

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<v Speaker 2>seemed to be just supporting anti shame around sexuality, and

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<v Speaker 2>that good. I am for right, I am not I'm

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<v Speaker 2>not condoning vigilanteism and ganging up on people. Not, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>making sure that the truth comes out. But I think

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<v Speaker 2>it's also important that we see the value in the Internet.

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<v Speaker 2>The Twitter sort of the Internet and social media is

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<v Speaker 2>that we get we get exposed to new viewpoints and

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<v Speaker 2>new ways of seeing the world, and I think that's

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<v Speaker 2>the valuable part of that. The other side of that

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<v Speaker 2>sort is if you're not careful, you can end up

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<v Speaker 2>in an echo chamber, and you can end up with vigilantism.

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<v Speaker 2>And so it's you have to be careful.

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<v Speaker 1>But has some social media silent itself off into its

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<v Speaker 1>own little echo chambers itself. So you have the left

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<v Speaker 1>wing blue Sky, you have the right wing X, you

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<v Speaker 1>have the not really knowing what it is, but it's

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<v Speaker 1>not right wing. It's not left wing with threads but

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<v Speaker 1>it's more left wing threads. And then you've got TikTok,

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<v Speaker 1>which is, you know, much more of a younger demographic there,

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<v Speaker 1>which is all talking to itself. So it hasn't social

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<v Speaker 1>media siloed itself already into its own personal echo chambers.

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<v Speaker 2>I have no idea. I don't know, I don't I've

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<v Speaker 2>never heard any data about it. I think it's a risk.

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<v Speaker 2>I think people that are on social media, you have

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<v Speaker 2>to be really careful about that risk. I think social

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<v Speaker 2>media can do good. I think it needs to be

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<v Speaker 2>regulated and it's not I think. I think algorithms need

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<v Speaker 2>to be regulated because these companies, they have algorithms that

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<v Speaker 2>decide what you see, Like, all they care about is engagement. Right,

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<v Speaker 2>You're the product that they're selling to advertisers, and so

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<v Speaker 2>they want you on their apps as much as possible,

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<v Speaker 2>and so they're going to send you things that engage

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<v Speaker 2>you and keep you on the apps and keep you

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<v Speaker 2>engaged as much as possible. And I think if that

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<v Speaker 2>needs to be regulated to a certain instance, you don't

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<v Speaker 2>get and those algrams can give you a skewed perspective

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<v Speaker 2>on what the world is really like. It can give

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<v Speaker 2>you a skewed perspective on what people actually think because

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<v Speaker 2>all you're seeing is stuff that gets you engaged and

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<v Speaker 2>keeps you engaged, and that doesn't necessarily reflect reality. And

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<v Speaker 2>so that's why I think social media and their algrams,

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<v Speaker 2>they need to be regulated so that you get a

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<v Speaker 2>little more reality out there.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, but as Jerry Springer would say at the end

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<v Speaker 1>of his shows, take care of yourselves and be kind

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<v Speaker 1>to each other. And watch more of our stuff here.