WEBVTT 1 00:00:10.000 --> 00:00:13.640 Hello, everyone, Welcome to Continuum, brought to you by EU 2 00:00:13.720 --> 00:00:17.640 Open Media. I'm Keith Woods. This is my host, Ryan, 3 00:00:17.960 --> 00:00:21.839 also known as Natives Concern, and in this our first episode, 4 00:00:21.960 --> 00:00:24.519 we're going to be talking about why we're here, how 5 00:00:24.559 --> 00:00:28.079 we got here, and what we hope to achieve. Ryan, 6 00:00:28.519 --> 00:00:31.839 it's good to have a here yet another right wing podcast. 7 00:00:32.240 --> 00:00:34.439 Do you want to explain why you thought this one 8 00:00:34.520 --> 00:00:35.200 was necessary? 9 00:00:35.399 --> 00:00:40.320 Because the brand of nationalism, the national idea, has become 10 00:00:40.600 --> 00:00:45.439 very weak and dissipated. I think in large part due 11 00:00:45.520 --> 00:00:52.880 to its online nature. The energy is easily dissipated, The 12 00:00:53.000 --> 00:00:59.000 ideas can be extremely broad organized into different little niches, 13 00:00:59.240 --> 00:01:02.560 and if we're to take power and change the course 14 00:01:02.600 --> 00:01:08.640 of history, we actually need to convince you know, a 15 00:01:08.719 --> 00:01:13.200 huge number of our people to believe in a unified 16 00:01:13.280 --> 00:01:14.280 idea of nationalism. 17 00:01:14.560 --> 00:01:14.760 Yeah. 18 00:01:14.760 --> 00:01:19.640 I think there's always maybe a tension between like the 19 00:01:19.760 --> 00:01:24.400 popularity of an idea and specifically of this subculture and 20 00:01:24.439 --> 00:01:28.120 how developed the ideas are. I think back, I mean, 21 00:01:28.200 --> 00:01:31.239 essentially we're representing, like you said, the national idea of 22 00:01:31.319 --> 00:01:35.000 nationalism here or you know, a kind of biorealist perspective 23 00:01:35.159 --> 00:01:41.120 that takes you know, race realism and you know, differences 24 00:01:41.159 --> 00:01:44.799 between sexes, differences between people groups as real things that 25 00:01:45.359 --> 00:01:49.359 influence society and that have profound effects. That's the perspective 26 00:01:49.359 --> 00:01:52.879 we're coming from. More than ten years ago, twenty fourteen fifteen, 27 00:01:52.959 --> 00:01:57.959 there was a kind of alternative right subculture that was 28 00:01:58.079 --> 00:02:00.760 very developed intellectually. You know, you had in influences like 29 00:02:00.799 --> 00:02:05.640 the French New Right. You had influences like Jonathan Bowden, 30 00:02:06.400 --> 00:02:09.919 who was very intellectual in his approach, and you had 31 00:02:10.120 --> 00:02:13.319 a set of pretty developed ideas in terms of a 32 00:02:13.439 --> 00:02:18.319 sense of a collective European identity and history, in terms 33 00:02:18.400 --> 00:02:22.319 of a critique of the existing right wing conservative establishment. 34 00:02:23.240 --> 00:02:27.360 And thankfully those once French ideas have become a lot 35 00:02:27.400 --> 00:02:31.680 more popular in terms of talking about demographic change, the 36 00:02:31.719 --> 00:02:34.360 influence of certain ethnic lobbies and so on. 37 00:02:34.759 --> 00:02:36.520 But of course with that there has been a. 38 00:02:36.439 --> 00:02:42.599 Delusion of the message, of the intellectual consistency and rigor 39 00:02:42.680 --> 00:02:46.319 of the message, and to a degree, I think there's 40 00:02:46.360 --> 00:02:49.240 more of a blurring of the lines there between, you know, 41 00:02:49.319 --> 00:02:52.919 conservatism and nationalism and these different strands on the right 42 00:02:52.960 --> 00:02:55.759 as these ideas have become more accepted. 43 00:02:55.639 --> 00:02:58.599 By the mainstream right. But yeah, I do. 44 00:02:58.599 --> 00:03:01.840 Think along the way we have lost something which was 45 00:03:01.919 --> 00:03:05.639 valuable in that original more intellectual right, which attracted a 46 00:03:05.639 --> 00:03:09.319 certain kind of person. And I think now as it 47 00:03:09.360 --> 00:03:12.680 has become less rigorous, as it has become much more 48 00:03:12.759 --> 00:03:18.759 focused on memes and simpler talking points, outrage the kinds 49 00:03:18.800 --> 00:03:22.840 of things that drove algorithms on social media, I think 50 00:03:22.879 --> 00:03:26.240 it's attracting a different kind of person, and the concern 51 00:03:26.400 --> 00:03:28.919 for me has become what's the kind of person we're 52 00:03:28.960 --> 00:03:30.159 losing with that. 53 00:03:31.039 --> 00:03:36.159 Yeah, we've spoken about it before. We preferred the fairy 54 00:03:36.240 --> 00:03:40.719 cell era. I think you can divide the movement into 55 00:03:40.960 --> 00:03:44.960 sort of three categories. Twenty sixteen to nineteen. Fairy cell 56 00:03:45.080 --> 00:03:48.319 era just kind of came out of the Trump election 57 00:03:48.400 --> 00:03:51.000 and the energy that was built up there. Then there 58 00:03:51.039 --> 00:03:54.400 was a COVID era with you know, the rise of 59 00:03:54.439 --> 00:03:59.360 conspiracy theories, and then there was the coming out of 60 00:03:59.360 --> 00:04:04.280 that Kanye Tate ban, the ADL. 61 00:04:05.280 --> 00:04:08.120 And the algorithms changed. 62 00:04:08.280 --> 00:04:14.599 There became more free speech on Instagram, Elon Musk acquired 63 00:04:14.919 --> 00:04:22.120 X and everything got very radical in some ways but 64 00:04:22.399 --> 00:04:23.279 less intellectual. 65 00:04:23.680 --> 00:04:26.600 So Pauls October seventh as well, that was an event 66 00:04:26.639 --> 00:04:31.160 where really the Desigonist influence and the question of Israel 67 00:04:31.240 --> 00:04:34.600 really came to the fore, and that had a spirit 68 00:04:34.680 --> 00:04:37.120 on nationalists discourse as well, in terms of you know, 69 00:04:37.120 --> 00:04:40.000 becoming much more focused on the Jewish lobby and so on. 70 00:04:40.199 --> 00:04:43.879 Yeah, the you know, the Jewish interests were being attacked 71 00:04:43.879 --> 00:04:46.079 from both the right that we had built up over 72 00:04:46.120 --> 00:04:49.800 a few years, and then the left and Jewish intellectuals 73 00:04:49.800 --> 00:04:53.720 and media started pivoting right to defend you know, the 74 00:04:53.759 --> 00:04:58.399 idea of Israel. So there have been some changes, but 75 00:04:58.439 --> 00:05:01.199 I think we've lost something with those changes. 76 00:05:01.319 --> 00:05:03.439 Well, I mean, I guess me and you were both 77 00:05:03.800 --> 00:05:09.199 examples maybe of people that came a more intellectual route internationalism. 78 00:05:09.879 --> 00:05:12.959 Because it's always interesting to me to hear how people 79 00:05:13.040 --> 00:05:16.920 ended up at these ideas. And it's incredible now how 80 00:05:16.920 --> 00:05:20.920 many people are from that period of like post October 81 00:05:20.959 --> 00:05:23.519 seventh and you hear them, you know, they they stumbled 82 00:05:23.560 --> 00:05:28.600 on an Instagram reel or TikTok video they found one 83 00:05:28.600 --> 00:05:32.000 of these influencers. There was a much more established pipeline 84 00:05:33.040 --> 00:05:35.600 of like, you know, you would go from there used 85 00:05:35.639 --> 00:05:37.920 to be the libertarian a right pipeline, they'd call it. 86 00:05:37.959 --> 00:05:41.920 You'd go from like a conservative to libertarian. You know, 87 00:05:41.959 --> 00:05:44.480 you become more anti war, you become more principled on 88 00:05:44.839 --> 00:05:48.680 economics or something, and then you go to like Hans 89 00:05:48.720 --> 00:05:51.560 Herman Happa. You you know, because you're a libertarian, you 90 00:05:51.560 --> 00:05:55.439 become anti democracy. You know, you blame mass democracy for 91 00:05:55.439 --> 00:05:59.759 for implementing socialism. And then from there, you know, you 92 00:06:00.240 --> 00:06:03.959 up alternative ideas on race, and then you you know, 93 00:06:04.040 --> 00:06:05.920 become old right. I used to be kind of an 94 00:06:06.000 --> 00:06:10.399 established pipeline and there were many gateways for people. You know, 95 00:06:10.439 --> 00:06:13.680 there was the old light people. There was like civic nationalism, 96 00:06:13.720 --> 00:06:16.839 there were you know, the counter You had people that 97 00:06:16.920 --> 00:06:20.360 talked a lot about Islam. But yeah, it was it 98 00:06:20.399 --> 00:06:23.319 was you know, part of it with with with censorship 99 00:06:23.360 --> 00:06:25.399 as well. These ideas were a bit more siloed. It 100 00:06:25.439 --> 00:06:28.639 was a longer process to get there. But now yeah, 101 00:06:28.680 --> 00:06:31.360 now it's in your face with with influencers and clean 102 00:06:31.480 --> 00:06:34.399 edits and everything. But that that has changed things a 103 00:06:34.439 --> 00:06:36.639 little bit as well in terms of how people approach 104 00:06:36.680 --> 00:06:39.360 these ideas. But I think you and I are both 105 00:06:39.399 --> 00:06:44.199 people that had very different politics and came to this 106 00:06:44.399 --> 00:06:47.680 maybe more slowly than you see with people now. 107 00:06:47.879 --> 00:06:53.920 Yeah, I came from liberalism. I had a very average 108 00:06:54.399 --> 00:06:59.079 British suburban upbringing, but I've always been interested in the truth. 109 00:06:59.399 --> 00:07:04.759 I've really always despised liars and you know saw myself 110 00:07:04.800 --> 00:07:08.240 as you know, a fighter for justice. I think my 111 00:07:08.319 --> 00:07:13.439 personality is also built on the antagonism between the patriarchal 112 00:07:13.519 --> 00:07:17.560 scientism and matriarchal Catholicism I was raised with. I was 113 00:07:18.199 --> 00:07:22.720 you know, always around a different races being born in London, 114 00:07:24.639 --> 00:07:28.720 but I remained a liberal despite being a biological determinist. 115 00:07:28.800 --> 00:07:32.079 I saw the differences and races at a very young 116 00:07:32.120 --> 00:07:36.879 age in primary school that some were leading academically, others 117 00:07:36.920 --> 00:07:40.439 were leading in sports and sprinting and things like that, 118 00:07:43.120 --> 00:07:48.160 and yeah, I went through a rather different development in 119 00:07:48.560 --> 00:07:51.879 my adulthood just through seeing the changes in society. 120 00:07:52.560 --> 00:07:55.800 Yeah, I got a different background, I guess. I mean 121 00:07:55.839 --> 00:07:59.199 I didn't. A lot of people in the scene grew 122 00:07:59.279 --> 00:08:00.759 up around and. 123 00:08:00.720 --> 00:08:04.439 People will you know, have stories about some encounter they 124 00:08:04.439 --> 00:08:07.560 had that really really changed their mind on the on 125 00:08:08.720 --> 00:08:12.040 you know, racial egalitarianism or something. I never had anything 126 00:08:12.079 --> 00:08:16.240 like that. I had a very homogeneous background in terms 127 00:08:16.279 --> 00:08:19.040 of you know, growing up in rural Ireland and schooling 128 00:08:19.160 --> 00:08:22.319 and so on. And for me it's like, yeah, I 129 00:08:22.600 --> 00:08:25.000 don't have a story of oh I encountered, you know, 130 00:08:25.079 --> 00:08:27.839 some area or someplace, and that was so terrible and 131 00:08:27.839 --> 00:08:30.800 it made me rethink everything. It was a much more 132 00:08:30.879 --> 00:08:34.240 intellectual journey for me. I did kind of come from 133 00:08:34.279 --> 00:08:37.600 the left. I mean maybe not everyone knows is at 134 00:08:37.600 --> 00:08:39.919 one point I was actually go help me. I was 135 00:08:40.120 --> 00:08:43.559 a member of Young Shin Feen. I think I joined 136 00:08:43.559 --> 00:08:46.399 when I was when I was sixteen, So that was kind. 137 00:08:46.279 --> 00:08:47.080 Of my politics. 138 00:08:47.879 --> 00:08:51.000 Definitely left of center on things like economics and so on. 139 00:08:52.440 --> 00:08:57.279 But even then I always had patriotic sentiment and that's 140 00:08:57.279 --> 00:08:59.519 how I viewed shin fin at the time. I mean, 141 00:09:00.639 --> 00:09:02.679 on the one hand, I'm always a bit more sympathetic 142 00:09:02.840 --> 00:09:06.919 to leftists in terms of you know, people talk about 143 00:09:07.000 --> 00:09:09.120 everyone on the left is hopeless. You know, these people 144 00:09:09.120 --> 00:09:11.879 will never sympathize with us, and you know, they just 145 00:09:11.919 --> 00:09:16.600 delude themselves or they'll say that they can't possibly believe 146 00:09:16.639 --> 00:09:20.799 this stuff about blank slatism and so on. I never 147 00:09:20.840 --> 00:09:22.879 agree with that because I really did kind of take 148 00:09:22.960 --> 00:09:25.799 that for granted. You know, racist is skin deep, that 149 00:09:25.840 --> 00:09:29.919 these are just basically it is basically just just skin color. 150 00:09:30.440 --> 00:09:32.639 And you know, I've never fully bought into like, you know, 151 00:09:32.639 --> 00:09:36.399 they're all motivated by malicious intent and so on, because 152 00:09:36.399 --> 00:09:38.600 I can you know, I can relate to believe in 153 00:09:38.600 --> 00:09:41.080 those things at some point. But then at the same 154 00:09:41.120 --> 00:09:43.559 time I think about it, and you know, immigration just 155 00:09:43.639 --> 00:09:46.200 wasn't an issue, wasn't something that was talked about. And 156 00:09:46.240 --> 00:09:48.759 even when I was drawn to Shinfein, it was coming 157 00:09:48.799 --> 00:09:50.759 from a place of patriotism. 158 00:09:50.799 --> 00:09:51.200 At the time. 159 00:09:51.240 --> 00:09:54.720 I was very interested in learning about you know, Irish 160 00:09:54.759 --> 00:09:57.240 War of Independence and the troubles and the history of 161 00:09:57.279 --> 00:10:00.240 Irish nationalism and so on. And because imgration it just 162 00:10:00.320 --> 00:10:03.559 wasn't an issue. Everything was so economics focused. Then it 163 00:10:03.600 --> 00:10:07.200 was after the financial crisis, a lot of the immigrants 164 00:10:07.240 --> 00:10:11.000 had gone home, a lot of the remaining ones were 165 00:10:11.200 --> 00:10:14.519 Eastern Europeans. It wasn't as pressing as it is now. 166 00:10:16.000 --> 00:10:17.759 Because of that, I could still. 167 00:10:17.399 --> 00:10:22.320 Buy into shin Fein as this you know, patriotic nationalist alternative, 168 00:10:22.360 --> 00:10:25.679 and you know, they were very much gate kept and 169 00:10:25.759 --> 00:10:29.480 hated by the establishment parties at the time and did 170 00:10:29.600 --> 00:10:32.399 signal quite populous in some ways. It's funny thinking back, 171 00:10:33.360 --> 00:10:35.320 like in the early twenty ten, shin Fein were like 172 00:10:35.399 --> 00:10:38.279 releasing stuff about how they were going to take florid 173 00:10:38.360 --> 00:10:41.720 out of the water and this kind of thing. So 174 00:10:42.480 --> 00:10:46.320 there was kind of a blending of ideas there, but 175 00:10:46.759 --> 00:10:48.840 still at the same time, from a very young age, 176 00:10:48.879 --> 00:10:50.519 you know, as soon as I learned about you know, 177 00:10:50.600 --> 00:10:52.919 Irish history and so on, I had a strong sense 178 00:10:52.960 --> 00:10:57.159 of national identity and patriotism. So you know, sometimes I 179 00:10:57.200 --> 00:10:59.679 wonder would I have gone in a nationalist direction no 180 00:10:59.720 --> 00:11:02.639 mautter or what when I saw you know what ended 181 00:11:02.679 --> 00:11:05.799 up happened into the country with immigrations, numbers and so on. 182 00:11:06.679 --> 00:11:10.960 Or was it because I, like you had this kind 183 00:11:10.960 --> 00:11:13.440 of like kind of classic streak, wanted to find the truth, 184 00:11:13.559 --> 00:11:18.080 went to heterodox ideas a lot, and ended up finding 185 00:11:18.120 --> 00:11:18.799 my way that way. 186 00:11:19.080 --> 00:11:22.799 Yeah, I think I was always a patriot, but that 187 00:11:23.039 --> 00:11:27.200 was I think, as was normal for the time in Britain. 188 00:11:28.960 --> 00:11:33.480 All that patriotism was still defined by World War Two. 189 00:11:34.720 --> 00:11:39.600 You know, I remember as children chanting these you know, 190 00:11:39.679 --> 00:11:40.919 World War two things. 191 00:11:41.159 --> 00:11:42.120 In terms of football. 192 00:11:42.639 --> 00:11:45.919 I lived with my grandfather as a child, and he 193 00:11:45.960 --> 00:11:48.919 was a World War Two veteran. My dad was a 194 00:11:48.960 --> 00:11:53.759 complete anti Nazi boomer, and I was raised with the 195 00:11:53.840 --> 00:11:58.600 you know, classic European tradition, a Greek mythology, Roman policism, 196 00:12:00.600 --> 00:12:02.919 and in terms of media. 197 00:12:03.159 --> 00:12:05.759 I love James Bond, and I saw. 198 00:12:05.600 --> 00:12:09.120 The British as the enforces of the. 199 00:12:08.840 --> 00:12:10.480 Correct moral order in the world. 200 00:12:12.440 --> 00:12:14.840 And I think that only really started to change for 201 00:12:14.960 --> 00:12:18.519 me when I got into adulthood and I had to 202 00:12:18.519 --> 00:12:20.960 live in a house in a state in London where 203 00:12:21.000 --> 00:12:23.399 I was one of the only white people there. I 204 00:12:23.440 --> 00:12:25.320 worked in the city of London, and I saw how 205 00:12:25.360 --> 00:12:28.320 the financial power worked. When I left that job and 206 00:12:28.360 --> 00:12:31.159 started working for myself, I had a lot more time 207 00:12:31.519 --> 00:12:35.320 and ended up, you know, seeing things on social media 208 00:12:35.360 --> 00:12:38.600 and then sort of shifting my ideas and wondering what 209 00:12:38.799 --> 00:12:41.799 is the you know, the true meaning of life, having 210 00:12:41.840 --> 00:12:44.759 spent you know, my early adulthood in just the pure 211 00:12:45.480 --> 00:12:46.399 pursuit of money. 212 00:12:46.639 --> 00:12:50.559 Yeah, so social media was, I guess, the gateway for yourself. 213 00:12:52.200 --> 00:12:57.200 For me, it wasn't really a typical social media pipeline either. 214 00:12:57.279 --> 00:12:58.080 I mean I was just. 215 00:13:00.240 --> 00:13:04.799 I got alienated with the leftist politics of like Irish 216 00:13:04.840 --> 00:13:09.679 Republicanism pretty pretty early on, because as I got more 217 00:13:09.720 --> 00:13:12.039 into philosophy, you know, I remember I read Nietzsche when 218 00:13:12.039 --> 00:13:14.440 I was when I was a teenager, he offering into philosophy, 219 00:13:16.720 --> 00:13:19.159 and like, you know, like every teenager that that reads 220 00:13:19.279 --> 00:13:23.399 reads Nietzsche, you start thinking you're you're, you're above the 221 00:13:23.399 --> 00:13:25.759 the herd, the masses, you're the the uber mench But 222 00:13:25.879 --> 00:13:30.080 I got I got critical of of the leftist insistence 223 00:13:30.200 --> 00:13:34.120 on on human rights egalitarianism, and and just came to 224 00:13:34.159 --> 00:13:36.519 see that this was all kind of groundless. 225 00:13:36.559 --> 00:13:36.759 You know. 226 00:13:36.840 --> 00:13:39.600 That's that's I think that's what you properly take from Nietzsche, 227 00:13:39.639 --> 00:13:42.120 if you read him, is not so much that he's 228 00:13:42.159 --> 00:13:45.000 offering any any positive system, but that he's shown how 229 00:13:45.519 --> 00:13:47.720 how lacking in foundation all. 230 00:13:47.600 --> 00:13:50.799 Of our our you know, modern moral. 231 00:13:50.600 --> 00:13:53.960 Vocabulary is because it's based on on this Christian foundation, 232 00:13:54.159 --> 00:13:57.360 that the people that actually believe in it won't defend themselves. 233 00:13:57.840 --> 00:14:00.639 And that's certainly true with the social democrat left. So 234 00:14:01.600 --> 00:14:04.519 I got interested in this question of trying to find, well, 235 00:14:04.519 --> 00:14:07.679 what is the ground of a moral basis for politics, 236 00:14:08.519 --> 00:14:10.600 and became critical of the left of its kind of 237 00:14:10.679 --> 00:14:13.960 just you know, taken for granted kind of nihilism and 238 00:14:14.039 --> 00:14:16.120 just assuming a kind of post. 239 00:14:15.879 --> 00:14:19.559 Christian moral order. And so that's that sent me oiled 240 00:14:19.559 --> 00:14:20.440 down all sorts. 241 00:14:20.240 --> 00:14:22.200 Of roots of of try looking at like a more 242 00:14:22.200 --> 00:14:28.919 individualist leftism. Max Stirner, who is this kind of similar 243 00:14:28.919 --> 00:14:32.440 to Nietzsche Nietzschean anarchists. I got interested in those trends 244 00:14:32.440 --> 00:14:37.600 of individualist anarchism, which sounds like a total contradiction, especially 245 00:14:38.120 --> 00:14:42.200 you know, for for an American audience watching right libertarianism 246 00:14:42.279 --> 00:14:46.639 is always this like market liberal, right wing thing. But 247 00:14:46.679 --> 00:14:49.679 there is this STrenD of like individualist anarchism. Not basically 248 00:14:49.720 --> 00:14:54.320 you're you're trying to equalize people to maximize their individual liberty. 249 00:14:54.399 --> 00:14:56.440 So I was looking at these strends of post leftist 250 00:14:56.480 --> 00:15:00.440 thought and so on, but quickly abandoned them for you know, 251 00:15:00.519 --> 00:15:05.000 the reasons people do abandoned header ducks strains of leftist thought, 252 00:15:05.000 --> 00:15:07.759 which is it. It just just doesn't seem very realistic 253 00:15:07.799 --> 00:15:10.200 to implement these things, you know, all of the kind 254 00:15:10.240 --> 00:15:13.000 of collective action problems, you get a few abandoned markets 255 00:15:13.000 --> 00:15:16.840 and so on. So I kind of lost interest in 256 00:15:16.840 --> 00:15:18.720 politics for a while, but I think my interest in 257 00:15:18.759 --> 00:15:23.320 philosophy eventually took me back. But you know what was 258 00:15:23.399 --> 00:15:26.720 driving it. I was always quite interested in in heterodox 259 00:15:27.000 --> 00:15:31.759 iconoclastic ideas. How can people believe what seem like indefensible ideas, 260 00:15:32.120 --> 00:15:34.080 you know, in the modern world, how can people have 261 00:15:34.200 --> 00:15:39.679 these you know, outdated traditionalist ideas, and so I was 262 00:15:39.720 --> 00:15:42.519 kind of interested just from like even an entertainment perspective 263 00:15:42.759 --> 00:15:47.480 in these people, Peter Hitchin's Haaleo conservatives, traditional conservatives, and 264 00:15:47.519 --> 00:15:49.799 then I started reading a lot of that kind of thing, 265 00:15:49.840 --> 00:15:54.279 you know, counter enlightenment thinkers, Burkean Conservatism, Edmund Burke, this 266 00:15:54.399 --> 00:15:59.159 kind of thing, And it was just a curiosity originally, 267 00:15:59.200 --> 00:16:01.639 but I see found you know, they were articulating and 268 00:16:01.759 --> 00:16:04.480 what had sort of alienated me from the left in 269 00:16:04.519 --> 00:16:06.919 the first place, which is, you know, a critique of 270 00:16:06.960 --> 00:16:12.399 a nihilistic foundation for politics, a purely economistic, materialist approach 271 00:16:12.440 --> 00:16:15.320 to politics. And I realized that, you know, the things 272 00:16:15.360 --> 00:16:18.799 I had maybe struggled to articulate earlier was actually critique 273 00:16:18.840 --> 00:16:21.159 that had been made for a long time by people 274 00:16:21.200 --> 00:16:25.080 coming from a more traditional right. Now I still didn't 275 00:16:25.519 --> 00:16:27.200 agree with a lot of that stuff in terms of, 276 00:16:27.279 --> 00:16:30.120 you know, the economics. Still a lot of these people 277 00:16:30.159 --> 00:16:33.639 still tended to be very kind of market liberal and 278 00:16:33.679 --> 00:16:37.679 their economic orientation, which seemed to me a contradiction to 279 00:16:37.720 --> 00:16:40.480 hold that alongside traditional social views. 280 00:16:40.279 --> 00:16:40.720 And so on. 281 00:16:41.919 --> 00:16:44.080 And so that was kind of always I think drawing 282 00:16:44.120 --> 00:16:46.679 me back in the direction of nationalism. And then yes, 283 00:16:46.799 --> 00:16:50.879 eventually found people that that articulated a national idea that 284 00:16:50.879 --> 00:16:51.799 that made sense to me. 285 00:16:52.480 --> 00:16:58.000 I mean, I didn't start my intellectual journey until twenty 286 00:16:58.159 --> 00:17:02.159 sixteen or so. I think prior to that, I took 287 00:17:02.600 --> 00:17:06.240 everything for granted. I was very focused on my own mission, 288 00:17:06.359 --> 00:17:10.519 which was to make money and gain personal freedom. I 289 00:17:10.559 --> 00:17:14.279 think I had that ambition from a very young age. 290 00:17:14.880 --> 00:17:17.519 I felt like I went without a few things as 291 00:17:17.559 --> 00:17:23.640 a child and became very money and freedom oriented, and 292 00:17:23.720 --> 00:17:24.839 my goal was really to. 293 00:17:24.880 --> 00:17:26.880 Just make money and retire. 294 00:17:28.519 --> 00:17:33.400 But then in my adulthood I became more intellectually curious 295 00:17:33.519 --> 00:17:34.359 through the Internet. 296 00:17:35.400 --> 00:17:36.200 I started out. 297 00:17:36.039 --> 00:17:42.119 With things like Jordan Peterson, you know, YouTube, Joe Rogan podcast, 298 00:17:42.160 --> 00:17:45.240 some interesting guests on there. And I'd been using Twitter 299 00:17:45.319 --> 00:17:49.000 for a few years because of my job. And then 300 00:17:49.839 --> 00:17:55.640 through Brexit and the Trump election, things were moving on 301 00:17:55.759 --> 00:18:00.200 politically there and I came across one particular influencer to 302 00:18:00.240 --> 00:18:07.640 Andrew Joyce, who was talking about particularly professors in American 303 00:18:07.720 --> 00:18:11.200 universities who were talking about the end of whiteness and 304 00:18:11.240 --> 00:18:13.680 how we needed to eradicate whiteness and it was all 305 00:18:13.759 --> 00:18:16.920 some evil system. And he was pointed out that many 306 00:18:16.960 --> 00:18:21.720 of them were Jewish and I thought, wow, that's I mean, 307 00:18:21.759 --> 00:18:27.799 that really discombobulated my ideas. And then I had to 308 00:18:27.799 --> 00:18:33.799 start recalibrating everything, doing you know, various reading and trying 309 00:18:33.799 --> 00:18:37.000 to come up with a new worldview. You know, as 310 00:18:37.000 --> 00:18:41.200 you said, I was influenced by Jonathan Bowden French New Riot, 311 00:18:42.519 --> 00:18:49.599 abandoned my libertarian ideas, became very statists, more you know, 312 00:18:49.640 --> 00:18:52.759 a collection a rejection of the social contract, and a 313 00:18:52.799 --> 00:18:58.039 more organic theory of the nation and the state. And yeah, 314 00:18:58.480 --> 00:19:01.559 it's just been a journey since then trying to bring 315 00:19:01.640 --> 00:19:07.319 these you know, political theories together with updating them for 316 00:19:08.200 --> 00:19:10.680 you know, modern economics, and try and come up with 317 00:19:11.000 --> 00:19:13.839 a unified worldview and theory of nationalism. 318 00:19:14.480 --> 00:19:14.680 Yeah. 319 00:19:14.720 --> 00:19:17.319 I actually encountered Joyce as well around that time, and 320 00:19:17.400 --> 00:19:20.599 he was probably, from what I remember, the first person 321 00:19:20.640 --> 00:19:23.079 that I encountered to talk about that question as well. 322 00:19:23.920 --> 00:19:26.960 And again, you know, I wonder if it was someone 323 00:19:27.039 --> 00:19:31.079 that was you know, less sophisticated in their in their approach, 324 00:19:31.279 --> 00:19:33.119 would I have just rejected it? You know, I found 325 00:19:33.200 --> 00:19:35.319 I found this interview with him talking about this question, 326 00:19:35.359 --> 00:19:39.440 which I hadn't really considered before, and the way he 327 00:19:39.480 --> 00:19:43.279 presented it in terms of you know, he's a PhD 328 00:19:43.799 --> 00:19:47.319 expertise in history and just presented in this very logical 329 00:19:47.319 --> 00:19:49.680 way of of kind of group interest and how groups 330 00:19:49.720 --> 00:19:52.759 compete and and you know, what's what's in their interest collectively. 331 00:19:53.480 --> 00:19:55.920 And I don't think at that moment I've I've fully 332 00:19:55.960 --> 00:19:58.319 accepted it, but it certainly set the wheels turning. 333 00:19:58.400 --> 00:20:00.720 And then of course you see, you see these. 334 00:20:00.559 --> 00:20:03.720 Patterns play out with that intellectual framework in the back 335 00:20:03.720 --> 00:20:06.839 of your head. So yeah, that was kind of a 336 00:20:06.839 --> 00:20:10.480 big red pill for me as well, and that goes 337 00:20:10.480 --> 00:20:13.160 for other thinkers as well. I mean, I remember, I 338 00:20:13.160 --> 00:20:17.119 think the first time I really started thinking about demographics 339 00:20:17.160 --> 00:20:21.000 on a mass scale around twenty sixteen, maybe twenty fifteen, 340 00:20:21.039 --> 00:20:23.359 when I was into this kind of you know, Save 341 00:20:23.480 --> 00:20:26.759 the West, civic nationalists, counter g had stuff. 342 00:20:26.799 --> 00:20:29.880 I actually had a phase of that, funny enough, didn't 343 00:20:29.920 --> 00:20:30.640 last very long. 344 00:20:30.680 --> 00:20:33.559 But these like I don't know if you encountered this, 345 00:20:33.680 --> 00:20:36.319 but like the Robert Spencer ears how many times the 346 00:20:36.400 --> 00:20:39.160 Qur'an mentions violence and all this kind of thing, and 347 00:20:39.599 --> 00:20:43.920 you know how Islam is like incompatible with Western values 348 00:20:43.920 --> 00:20:49.000 such as feminism and all these kinds of things. It's 349 00:20:49.039 --> 00:20:51.880 almost like leftist critique of Islam. But I remember I 350 00:20:51.960 --> 00:20:54.519 read Pat Pukanon's Death of the West, thinking it was 351 00:20:54.559 --> 00:20:58.039 going to be that kind of book, you know, how 352 00:20:58.079 --> 00:21:00.400 bad modern art is, a modern archetype, sure, and all 353 00:21:00.400 --> 00:21:03.559 this kind of thing, And to my surprise, it was 354 00:21:03.559 --> 00:21:05.640 almost all about demographics, you know. And he was talking 355 00:21:05.680 --> 00:21:11.079 about fallen birth rates in Europe, population replacement, immigration, what 356 00:21:11.200 --> 00:21:15.160 the trends were showing on that countries were eventually the 357 00:21:15.279 --> 00:21:18.519 native population will be a minority. You know, how many 358 00:21:18.559 --> 00:21:21.440 millions of Russians would be lost because of the collapse 359 00:21:21.440 --> 00:21:23.400 in birth rate. He was talking about areas of the 360 00:21:23.480 --> 00:21:28.599 United States where Latino immigration was totally changing the character 361 00:21:28.640 --> 00:21:31.680 of the country. I think that's the first time I 362 00:21:31.759 --> 00:21:36.119 really considered you know, immigration, you know, to me, it 363 00:21:36.200 --> 00:21:38.119 was always just thinking that there's a few immigrants in 364 00:21:38.160 --> 00:21:40.599 the country and they work and whatever. It doesn't really 365 00:21:40.640 --> 00:21:42.640 change anything. But that was the first time I've really 366 00:21:42.680 --> 00:21:47.000 taken seriously, well, no, think further out, think in terms 367 00:21:47.000 --> 00:21:50.200 of decades, think in terms of combining it with fallen 368 00:21:50.240 --> 00:21:53.599 birth rates, and then actually, if you change, you know, 369 00:21:53.640 --> 00:21:57.240 you change the demographics, it's going to fundamentally change the 370 00:21:57.319 --> 00:21:59.200 character of these countries, and then of course you just 371 00:21:59.200 --> 00:22:01.480 look at the numbers, how profound that is in terms 372 00:22:01.480 --> 00:22:04.079 of how much immigration there is and how. 373 00:22:03.880 --> 00:22:04.799 Fast that's happening. 374 00:22:06.000 --> 00:22:08.960 And then at that point, yeah, that's quickly adopted that 375 00:22:09.039 --> 00:22:11.000 And you know, I think with any of these people, 376 00:22:11.839 --> 00:22:14.359 you know, there's probably an initial hesitation where you've you 377 00:22:14.680 --> 00:22:18.359 would have felt uncomfortable seeing someone talk about race, demographics 378 00:22:18.400 --> 00:22:21.759 or any of these things. But you know, if you 379 00:22:21.799 --> 00:22:24.680 are intellectually minded, I think there's an openness there where 380 00:22:24.799 --> 00:22:27.759 you say, Okay, I might be uncomfortable with this, but 381 00:22:28.079 --> 00:22:30.359 you know his arguments makes sense. He's a reasonable guy, 382 00:22:30.559 --> 00:22:33.000 and you accept it. But yeah, I mean you think 383 00:22:33.039 --> 00:22:37.079 back those guys like Bowden, Joyce, even bu Canon himself. 384 00:22:38.119 --> 00:22:42.039 I mean, these were very impressive people intellectually, with a 385 00:22:42.200 --> 00:22:47.119 very well rounded knowledge of things, you know, of history, 386 00:22:46.880 --> 00:22:53.359 of sense of European civilization and ethos and and you know, 387 00:22:53.480 --> 00:22:57.400 are just unimpeachable in terms of how they present their case. 388 00:22:57.759 --> 00:22:58.079 Yeah. 389 00:22:58.240 --> 00:23:04.960 I found that attractive, the intellectual side of the you know, 390 00:23:05.119 --> 00:23:10.480 national political theory. Jonathan Bowden was a huge influence on me. 391 00:23:10.799 --> 00:23:14.279 I used to listen to his speeches as I fell asleep. 392 00:23:16.000 --> 00:23:18.559 I read a lot of the French New rights stuff. 393 00:23:18.720 --> 00:23:26.119 That was something that Generation Identity were pushing, but also 394 00:23:26.960 --> 00:23:30.480 you know, more stuff in the mainstream, like Douglas Murray's 395 00:23:30.480 --> 00:23:33.839 Strange Death of Europe that was an influence on me. 396 00:23:34.119 --> 00:23:40.519 That also talks about Jewish organization and multiculturalism, and yeah, 397 00:23:40.720 --> 00:23:44.359 like you, I started to do the numbers. I looked 398 00:23:44.359 --> 00:23:49.559 at the birth rates where we were in Europe. I 399 00:23:49.680 --> 00:23:52.839 you know, I saw that in my own country he 400 00:23:52.880 --> 00:23:55.880 hadn't had a replacement birth rate since nineteen seventy five. 401 00:23:57.880 --> 00:24:04.359