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Now let's dive in to today's episode. I'd like to
welcome to the show, Roslyn Bosco Hiding Roslin.
Speaker 2: I'm doing fine, Alex. Thank you for inviting me to
the show. Thank you, happy to join you here today.
Speaker 1: Oh, thank you so much for doing this. I appreciate this,
and I appreciate you staying up late over in India
to do this conversation. So I truly truly appreciate it.
Speaker 2: Thank you else, thank you.
Speaker 1: So your work is fascinating because one of your first
books here that I read was The Brimstone Folacy, which
is we're going to dive into a little bit, but
you're also do a lot of work in the consciousness
and trying to raise consciousness for the West and the
East for that matter. But my very first question to
you is diving into the first concept of heaven and
hell and all that stuff. Why are good people not
always rewarded and why bad people are not always punished
in our lives? In other words, why do good things
happen bad things happen to good people, and good things
happen to bad people sometimes.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was the question that got me started off
in the first place. And at one point of time
in my life when my mother lost her leg, her
leg was amputated due to the mistake of a doctor,
and later she lost her life due to cancer. So
that started off a lot of questions in me. She
was a very good, holy kind woman who would never
speak a bad word or about anybody, so and she
was a very soft natured woman. So this was the
first thing that affected me very deeply, and probably my
quest started there. And I realized that I did not
know everything. So all the social conditioning that may have
made me believe till that point of time that good
people will be rewarded and bad people will be punished
was certainly proved wrong. So that started a barrage of questions.
And now we have a lot of people talking about
greencarnation and all these things, and think that there are
two parts, that there are two sides to the same coin.
One could be the reincarnation part, the other could be
your soul's purpose to learn. So when we look at
it from the Eastern point of view, we think of
karma and coming back and doing our lessons again and
evolving our consciousness. And another could be the purpose of
the soul to do something for humanity, to be with
the people whom the soul loves as a spirit guide
and to guide people. So I think the basic idea
that good things happens to happen to good people is
not correct in my point of view.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it doesn't, and generally it's part of the soul's
journey to learn. And from the outside it could be like, well,
that person was so beautiful, like your mother, didn't her
to fly and bad things happened to her, But that
according from the Eastern point of view of reincarnation, it
is her path and her choice to go through these
things to learn and grow in this life.
Speaker 2: Correct, yes, yes, But then I believe that the soul
also has a purpose. So my mother's soul might have
had a specific purpose to be with us and to
help us evolve. So it could be these are two
different facets of the same concept, I would say, with
the way of looking at it from the Eastern point
of view and another way of looking at it from
the point of view of the soul's purpose rights.
Speaker 1: So in other words, that you get a two for one.
She grows as a soul and she also helps you
start you down on a path because without her going
through this, you would have maybe never even asked those questions.
Speaker 2: Correct, Yes, definitely, Yeah, I would have pwoud of just
been a puppet who would have been just socially conditioned
to accept everything that the church and other people told me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's an interesting concept too, because there's so much
that you know, I've said this on the show before,
is that you know, our belief system is basically programmed
into us since we were born, and we are just
a result of the conditioning and the environment that we
were born into. Wherever you are, and you know, you
could be Christian, Muslim, Hindu, it, you know, whatever your
family is, that's what you are. Only later in life
you become more if you are curious more, you question
a lot more of the things and you start thinking, well,
that doesn't feel right to me anymore. Well, wait a minute,
what are this billion other people over here in India
are thinking a little bit different than I was? What
are they doing different? Are they all going to hell?
Because they don't believe in what I believe, and vice versa.
So you start thinking outside the box a little bit.
But that's scary. But that's extremely scary for most people
because it rocks the foundation of their entire existence. And
then they're like, well, wait a minute, my mom's not wrong,
my dad is not wrong. How dare you? And then
that's where fights begin and war's honestly, would you agree
with that?
Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely, yeah, So when the basic foundation is wrong,
even I was not able to come to this mindset
for so many years in my life. It took me
a very long time and a number of incidents to
bring me to this place where now I strongly believe,
especially after looking at so many near hundreds and hundreds
of near death experience, is where I've come to believe
that this is what is true and not what we
have been taught and conditioned to believe.
Speaker 1: So my next question is is Hell real? Because that
is a concept in the West specifically, and I think
in many other religions as well, there is a concept
of this place. But I'm not as educated in the
other religions. But in Hell, I was taught Hell was
real in first grade, and I was terrified as a
child about this concept of help, like, I don't want
to go to hell, and that's exactly what it was
built to do. But I love to hear from your
point of view, is hell real?
Speaker 2: Hell is definitely not real, Alex. So, I think we
experienced hell right here on earth. It is not that
you will have to go somewhere else or it is
after your death that we need to experience hell. We
experience heaven and hell every moment of our lives, and
every day it is our choice to experience heaven or
hell wherever we are. And it has to do with consciousness,
because what you believe, and what we think and our expectations,
and again, how we have been conditioned as the based
on gender or status or so many other things makes
us believe that something is hell or heavy. There are
there are poor people who live happy lives, holy, contented lives.
So you could be happy wherever you are and create
heaven for yourself.
Speaker 1: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
and now back to the show.
Speaker 2: So, and this I think could carry on even after that.
The consciousness that you carry could carry on an extend
even after death. Well you could, we could experience all
those fears and all those negative elements that we've had
in our lives, experienced in our lives without getting rid
of them. When we cross. When a person processes over,
I think he or she carries carries this. So that's
why many near death experiences when they uh when when
they are in a situation which is like hell, then
some of them immediately pray to God. They are they
get that compulsion to pray to God, and finally they
see a grain of light and they move on.
Speaker 1: So this, well, yeah, that's very interesting because you've you've
obviously studied a lot of near death experiences. I've spoken
to many near death experiences on the show, and I've
had a few that have seen hell in their near
death experience. One specifically reminded me that she's like I
created that for myself because of my belief system that
I felt that I needed to go through that hell.
And once I decided I didn't want to do it anymore,
I asked for help. That's when that little speck of
light came in and I was transformed out of it.
Out of all your experiences in near death, with with
near death experiences, is that a common thing because generally
near death experiences don't stay in the hell and then
come back. There is some sort of redemption. If you
have redemption, but some sort of elevation and vibration to
the point where you get to a light of some
sort of angel love being, something comes and saves you
and pulls you out of that. Or do you have
any in your any cases that they went to hell,
stayed in hell, and then when they came back from hell,
they were just woken up, and they never saw any
eaven or any positive place.
Speaker 2: I don't remember anything of that kind ELK. So whenever
they plead to God, I mean when they say Jesus
saved me or any God of their choice, which of
a god of their choice, I mean, immediately they see
the light and then but then the life review is
always there. So if you think that is a part
of hell or something like that, then but then again,
even in the life review, only your soul you judge yourself.
You evaluate yourself based on what happened in your life.
So I don't think anybody has been stuck in hell
for a very long time, unable to escape from that
and come and has come back straight from that experience.
Speaker 1: So what you're telling me is Dante has lied to
us all these years. Well, isn't isn't honestly, isn't Dante
responsible for the current idea of hell in the Western mind?
Was those books Inferno and so on?
Speaker 2: Yeah, to a certain extent.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's good marketing, good good marketing. You know, they
came up with the hell. But he really painted a
picture of the seven layers of hell, and you have
to go through it and all this damnation and all
this stuff, which you know, I was raised Catholic. I'm
a recovering Catholic, as I always say on the show,
and the the concept of the Old Testament and in
the in the Western Bible, in regards to the punishing God,
the jealous God, the revengeful God, all of this stuff
goes against anything I can even feel in my bones,
because as a parent, you just would never do anything
like that. No matter what your child did, you would
never throw them into a pit of hell. You would
never punish them forever. That is not what love is.
So in other words, I'm gonna ask you the question,
does God rain down catastrophes and natural disasters and disease
as a form of punishment? To people because so many people,
maybe people listening right now, believe that truly in their heart.
Speaker 2: I think people have foisted their own image, human image
on God, so human characteristics, so they it's just a
personification of God as a human being. But when you
take the Bible and when you take a free place,
you see Jesus talking about forgiveness and Jesus talking about
unconditional love. So I mean, the damage that all these
years has been done to the psyche of the people
is too much. And that is what prompted me to
write this book in the first place, because I rebelled
against the idea of punishing God. I couldn't accept that
kind of a God because there were so many experiences,
real experiences which I had where God, I felt the
love of God so much so my real life experience
was completely contrary to what people were telling me. And
that is how I couldn't reconcile with the idea, and
I made it a point to try to let it
be known to people.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, even if you just look at the
ideas of the Ten Commandments or even of the Old Testament, God,
from a critical standpoint, he's very jealous. He's very avengeful,
he's insecure. You know, it's it's a fast if you
just look at it from a psychological standpoint, the character
that is painted in those in those stories is extremely vengeful,
extremely insecure, extremely egotistical in the way that it's like
you must I am the only one you shall not.
It didn't make much sense to me. I was like, wow.
But when Jesus showed up and starts preaching all these things,
he was a direct threat to everything that was brought
before him. Hence what happened to him. But if you
truly go through his teachings, like Yoga Nanda said, Jesus
was crucified in one day, but his teachings have been
crucified for over two thousand years. It's extremely, extremely true
if you really listen to what Jesus was talking about.
He was the first idea in the West at least,
that started to paint a picture of a different God.
And we use the word God for lack of a
bet source. You know, you know, the one energy, I
am whatever whatever makes people feel comfortable, because God is
very loaded word nowadays because of all of this programming
that we've had over the years.
Speaker 2: Right, yes, that is why I use the word universe
instead of God. Co create with your universe, correct, So
I substituted. I substituted the word God with universe because
I wanted to make it something common for everybody to
understand and connect with.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So then the concept of the devil is just
another character created to instill fear in the form of
punishment towards us.
Speaker 2: Yes, definitely. And I think Jesus was meant to come
to change that kind of consciousness or change that kind
of an image that religion, especially institutionalized religion, had painted
about God. And I think God himself wanted to wanted people,
to make an impact on the people, to make a
change in the minds of the people. And that is
why Jesus had to come. And he's a He redeemed
us from all those kinds of beliefs which were built
up by the Old Testament.
Speaker 1: And for my understanding from my studies, you know, Jesus
did spend time in India. To my understanding, he spent
time there learning, teaching, learning and learning from Yogi's learning, meditation, learning,
these kinds of concepts, these are ideas. I mean, Yogananda
spoke about this because a lot of the things that
he teaches are very Eastern. They are definitely not Western
in idea, the idea of that everything's within you. You
have to go inward. The Kingdom of Heaven is inside
of you. You can do whatever I can do. Even more,
these concepts are definitely not Western. They lean more Eastern.
And isn't Jesus very renowned in India and in the East.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Jesus. There are a lot of institutions here which
have been begun by Catholics and missionaries Christians, and there
are hospitals which have been initiated by people all over
the world. So Jesus is very well known and well
received here here in India. Speaking of uh see what
we think about when we speak about reincarnation and these
kind of concepts.
Speaker 1: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
and now back to the show.
Speaker 2: I don't really I doubt whether a person has to
be born in a but has to travel to a
place or has to be born in a place to
get these ideas, uh it might see. I believe that
each one of us, when we awake at a particular
point of time, we get we get all the knowledge
that we carry over from the past. So whatever it is.
So I might have been born in the US, and
you might have been born. We have had so many
past lives, and that is what near the experience is
telling us. So in that case we unless we have
something to establish that Jesus really came to India. The
point is that he might have learned it. He might
have He might have come with wisdom and the understanding
that we accumulate with all our experiences.
Speaker 1: And nowadays, you know, it must have been more difficult
two thousand years ago to come to this realization if
there's no one teaching you how to access that knowledge.
Where in today's world, this information, like this conversation is
online in anywhere. Anybody in the world can hear this
conversation and it could trigger, yes, a way to go
down a path. Start reading your books, start reading other books,
start thinking about our medica hating and things open up.
But I'd imagine in you know, two three thousand years ago,
that was a much more difficult place if you only
stayed in this one little patch of land and never
exposed to anything else.
Speaker 2: Yes, that is why we acknowledge him and appreciate him
as a true revolutionary because even though he had this
to go within, he uh carried this concept of going
within and saying that the Kingdom of God is within
in the eastern part of the world. I I'm not
sure who carried all these revolutionary ideas as Jesus did,
like like turn your other cheek when when you Yeah,
so this kind of forgiving, forgiveness and unconditional love was
unique to Jesus Christ.
Speaker 1: So but in the Vedas did they speak of anything
like this in the vEDS text? In the Vedic text.
Speaker 2: The way this, Uh, maybe just see Hinduism is a
way of life, so they have ingrained in them. For example, Uh,
they are very tolerant. They practice vegetarian vegetarianism. And then
there there are genes who believe that they shouldn't even
harm an insect. So it is it is a way
off a living for them. But I'm not sure whether
it's explicitly mentioned as such in the way the texts.
As much as Jesus keeps on repeating over and over
again through parables and through stories, and it was it's
very very simple. The reason why his christ consciousness has
become so widespread is because it's very simple to follow.
Unlike the way they texts which can be read and
understood by a privileged few. So that is where well
there is a little bit of so here in India.
You can't expect every day everybody to be so knowledgeable
as to know the meaning of Sanskrit in which the
way does. Yeah, so even for me, I don't. I
I don't know the language. I don't know Sanskrit so
as much as I know English. So it's uh difficult
for me to go and interpret and learn that language.
But whereas uh it is not so in the case
of uh Jews Bible.
Speaker 1: Yeah, with Jesus and histories and the ideas that he
was putting out. So he was really from from my
from my research as well. The simpler the explanation, the
more powerful it is. If it gets too complex to
under if I have to explain it to you very deeply,
sometimes it's it maybe there's something off, But like you said,
those teachings of Jesus, teachings from Yoga, Nana, teachings from Buddha,
these are very basic ideas to help their truths, their
truths essentially that that are that ring true the second
that you hear them, it's it's pretty fast. It's pretty
fascinating how how Jesus was able to do what he
was able to do at the time that he was
able to do it. I mean, he only had a
few years before they said enough is enough, we got
to get rid of this guy. I mean it was
he only he only was you know, really preaching his
for a few years before he finally said no, you
gotta go because there's too much of a threat to
the establishment. And and and from your point of view,
I mean, the ideas of the Old Testament, the ideas
of the established Western religions, was about control. It was
about power and control of the people. Fear. Fear is
still being taught today every single time you turn your
television on, afraid, be afraid, be afraid. The only truth
is with me, or buy my product, because this is
the only way you're going to be able to survive
this coming apocalypse. Of it's constant like that, and you're
keeping everyone fearful. Well, that's what the Bible was doing.
Old Testament Bible at least was doing to control the
masses because power and so on.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they might the people at the highest level of
hierarchy might have thought that this was the best way
to make people listen to so the like, for example,
the Ten Commandments. So when they about the Ten Commandments,
they thought that even this I see as an evolution
of consciousness sense. So see, at that point of time,
people believed that this was the best way to take
it to the people, so that they would listen through fear.
But then now we have begun to understand and we
have begun to ask questions. And with the evolution of consciousness,
we know that the idea of for punishing God is
really fictitious. It's wrong. And when you believe that God
is your father, where you lose the personal connection when
you think that God is vengeful, so you have only
feared and you hide from and you hide from God.
We hide from God, so we don't have that real
connection with God. That that is not a real connection.
I from my point of view, I feel that God
is my father who will forgive me my Christmases, as
he has uh said in the as Jesus Christ a
start us in this in his prayer. So I believe
that one hundred persons, so I have more connection with
God as my father. Even the idea of portraying God
as a father figure based on gender is being questioned these.
Speaker 1: Days, of course, because end.
Speaker 2: The experiences are showing that God is formless, and God
is fur light, and the angels and other every aspirit
guides they assume forms according to their according to our
our expectations and our belief systems. So this is what is.
So we have come. I think we have come a
long way away from the punishing God and people. I mean,
these ending experiences. I think God himself is it's not
an accident. Do you believe it's an accident? It's no,
definitely not accidents.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, there's no access at all. And again from
my experience talking to so many in the years as well,
is that you know, if you were Catholic or a
Christian your entire life, you know Krishna is not going
to show up for you. Like generally speaking, that's that Jesus.
I have a running joke on the shows, Jesus is
the hardest working man on the other side, because he's everywhere,
he's always helping people, he's always bringing people, he's always
in these near death experiences. But for others, it's been Buddha,
there's been Krishna, there's been I mean and I started
going deeper into indigenous near death experiences where they've never
heard of Jesus. We'll be right back after word from
our sponsor, and now back to the show, and I'm like,
who shows up for them? How did they work through
and their experiences of a near death experience? It is
pretty fascinating. And the one thing that you were saying,
and I just want to kind of put an exclamation
point on it, is that we that we or people
projected human frailties onto God as a character. And if
people think that this is the only time it's happened,
it's pretty much happened in every religion ever, from Hinduism.
I mean there's a lot of humanistic elements to a
lot of the Hindu gods. I mean the Greeks hello Zeus.
I mean they were there was a soap opera going
on a mountain Limpus. You know, they were cheating on
each other, they were having kids here and there. I mean,
it was a pure soap opera. So if you start
looking at it from that point of view, you start
to if you look at it critically, and I know
somebody listening right now, their foundation is they're fighting this
and it's okay, it's all right. You don't have to
believe anything that we're saying. But if you start looking
at it critically and you just start going, hmm, this
is making sense. I might not like it what they're saying,
but this is starting to make sense. And maybe this
is a seed that will start people at least becoming
curious and reading and listening and watching more shows or
listening to books or watching whatever to take them down
a different path. Because, like I said earlier in the day,
I'm like, if you believe, you're if you have a
belief system that is separate from others, that is a problem.
Because God is all one, the concept of all of
us instead of I it's a weed. We are all
together in this. We are all connected. If I harm you,
I'm harming myself. These concepts, as as Jesus said, do
wanto others as you would like to do onto you,
these kind of concepts. If it's separation fear based, maybe
you should start looking into something. Maybe you should start
thinking about things slightly differently. So I hope this helps
in that manner. Now I want to go into consciousness
because that is another area that you are very passionate
about began what began your journey to understanding consciousness? So specifically,
what is your definition of consciousness?
Speaker 2: Consciousness is imperceptible, it is unconscient. It cannot be defined.
In the first place, your consciousness cannot be defined. But
there are states of consciousness. The first state of consciousness,
which you call the awake state, which is extroverted and uh,
which makes you look at the outside world and your
activities everyday activities so that belongs to your gross body.
That is the away stake. And then you have the
dream state of consciousness where your imagination and dreams come
into place. And then you have the third phase UH
phase of consciousness, which is the dreamless state, which is
sometimes uh people say that it is a dark place,
but actually it is a dense place. It is it
is very dense and UH and everything is everything is
silent there. But there is your pure consciousness you will
you cannot call it. The fourth state that is called
called thuria. The Mandukya Upanishad, which sure was written after
cry like first or second century a d speaks about
turia as unconditioned, unchangeable, non duel, which is adwaita. So
this Touria. This consciousness shines upon just like a light.
Just like a flashlight, it shines upon all the three
other states. So Turia cannot be called the fourth level
of consciousness, but it shines. It helps to show, like
a flashlight in a dark room, the true nature of
all these three different states, the awake state, the dream state,
and the dreamless state, and these ten from this consciousness,
and the story is complete. It is divine. It is
the divine part of every human being. That is your
consciousness and which is unconditioned. That is the.
Speaker 1: That's your definition, that's my definition. So the concept of
conscious because I've had so many people on the show
talking about consciousness, is a pretty fascinating deep well of discussion,
to say the least. But when you look at it
from trying to really get into it, you're like, okay,
if you look at yourself like I am okay, I'm thinking,
I am thinking, and then there's a voice inside of
you saying certain things about you. Yeah, you're too fat,
you're ugly, you're not smart enough. Well that's the ego,
that's the monkey brain talking, yeah, yes, but there is
something else behind that that is aware of everything and
watching everything yes, that to me at least, is consciousness
or the higher self as the player in the game
that we're the video game of life, if you will.
We are avatars running around. They are the player playing
the game. Accrude explanation or analogy of it, but I
think it kind of solidifies a little bit of what
it is. That is that fair? What do you think
of that?
Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely, Alex. The only catch is that unless you
come to the point of realizing that these different states,
the three states, the awake state, the dream state, so
these are not reality, but there is a divine reality.
There is this consciousness which never changes until then your
mind keeps on playing those monkey games. You cannot stop that.
And again Tha open At also talks about the five
sheets sheets of consciousness, which are The first one is
called the unda myya kosha. Under mya kosha is your
physical self. An unknown means food in Sanskrit refers to food,
so it's made up of your physical body is made
up of that. And then you have the prana maya kosha.
Prana maya kosha a kosha means sheath, so that is
the oxygen and the energy that is surging through your body.
The third one is called Mano Maya Kosha. Mano Maya
kosha is your I need. So the mind is what
keeps on going back and forth. And then you have
the Vinyana maya Kosha, which refers to your cognitive abilities,
your skills and all that. And then finally you have
the Ananda Maya Posha. Ununda maya kosha is bliss. So
until you reach and thuria is separate from all these
five different sheets of consciousness. When these ways are remote
sheets of corp when these waves are remote, and a
person begins to understand that all this materialism and all
this running after and all this competition is just an
illusion and the only thing that is you are much
more than that. Why do I want myself? Why do
I want to limit myself to an ordinary, petty being
who's running after so many other things when I am everything?
So uh, Until a person comes to realize his or
her divine nature, life is really very difficult, Alex. It's
it's it's a rat raise and there's so many anxieties
and frustrations and depression.
Speaker 1: So it's it's very interesting that you say that, because
you know, even in my own journey has taken me
a while to figure that out. It's a been a
long time, and it does for many people. You know,
it takes time before you figure out that this is,
this is not real what's important in life? And from
somebody who was constantly hustling, constantly trying to control and
gain and compete with others and all this. But when
as you get older you start to realize, hopefully not everybody,
but hopefully towards the end, when you're about to transition,
you go, wow, that seemed like a lot of waste
of time. We'll be right back after a word from
our sponsor, And now back to the show. Everything I did, everybody,
I hurt, everybody, everything I did to accumulate more stuff,
more things. There is no U haul connected, no packing
trailer connected to the hearse. You can't take it with
you really can't take it with you. And when you
understand that, then if you can understand that earlier in life,
life becomes a little bit more joyous to work through.
So even now to this point where I am at now,
it's like how much bigger of a box to live?
And do you need? You know, after a certain level,
there are certain things that have to be checked off. Security,
you know, you know, protection from the elements, you know, food,
things like you know, a nice place to sleep, you know,
as a comfortable place to sleep. Once you're done with
all of that, you know, why do you need a
twenty five thousand square foot home. Like to me, it's
even if I had a billion or ten billion dollars,
I wouldn't. I would be more on the Steve Job side.
Steve Jobs lived in a small neighborhood house and he
was one of the richest people of the world. But
he also studied Yogananda a lot, So there's that.
Speaker 2: But it would be a scene. I see those kinds
of people around me also, But it would be really
rude of me to go and break then break their illusion,
because it's they will come to learn it when it's
the right time for them. It doesn't happen. It doesn't
happen to everybody at the same time.
Speaker 1: So, but it's also dangerous to try to break their
illusion as well, because if you challenge somebody's illusion or
challenge their foundation, that is when things happen. That's why
I never preach I never try to transform anybody and
any and any aspect. Like if you like PCs. I'm
a Mac person. It's okay, enjoy your PC. You know,
if you want an iPhone or a Samsung. If you
want to eat meat or don't eat meat, if you
want to believe in this or believe in that. If
you start to challenge, that's when problems happen. Now, if
they ask you questions, if they become curious, then you
might be able to start a little bit. But you can't.
Even then, you still can't just pull the curtain back
because it's too it's too jarring, it's too it's dangerous.
It's really dangerous because it could hurt the relationship, kurt you.
But it's interesting to see that.
Speaker 2: So there are see enlightenment has become a common term
these days, Like many people are talking about enlightenment. So
unless you but there are so many steps you need
to you need to pass before you reach that particular
point of life. So as you say, when you can,
you cannot go and tell somebody that, uh, these are
the these are the facts of life, and you have
to listen to you will have to understand that. So
uh in consciousness. Uh Sage Valmiki, who wrote the Ramaina,
he has given up he has given up seven steps
towards enlightenment. There is a kind of a route to enlightenment,
so you will have to uh tackle them one by
one until you reach that particular place which you are
talking about. That means your ability to give up things.
So the first one would be so to reach this
point of enlightenment, the first step is you need to
have a longing for that, unlike a longing for materialism
material things, a longing for enlightenment. So that is called
subiksha in Sanskrit. So that would be the first step,
and the second would be self inquired. So when we
see things happening and neared at experiences happening, I mean,
there are so many people who are interested in finding
out more about these things. But at the same time
that are people who just say no, it's just hallucination.
When it happens to millions of people, still they can
say so self inquiry is a very important aspect. That
would be the second stage. This is given by Taitre openership.
The third one would be tanu manasa, which means a
weakening of worldly desires, which you and I are discussing about.
So it's not necessary that I should have so much
to make me happy. I can be happy with enough
whatever is enough for me. As you said, the a
basic house, some shelter and safety. This would be and
the fourth stage would be self realization, which is called
in Sanskrit. So unless you realize that this world is
illusually you cannot come to that understanding. And then comes
a stage of detachment, which is called Assam sabti. So
Asam Sati shows you gradually to move away from all
these step by step, and naturally, when you have this
kind of detachment, you travel to the next step, which
is cessation of suffering. This is what Buddha was talking
about all the time and saying desires a root cause
of all evil, So a cessation of suffering. And finally
you have what is called thuria or thuriaa. So that
is when you become one with the divine and you
don't have all these kind of expectations. I think that
stage mark can be reached only by a very few people,
and they are the sages and the ascended masters. But
nowadays a lot of people are getting into that mindset,
what with the climate changes and so many challenges that
we are facing today, people are beginning to understand that
there is something, there is a larger reality behind what
we see every day.
Speaker 1: Oh, yes, there's no question. I mean the explosion of
the popularity of the show is a testament to that.
You know, it's and it's not coming from an egotistical place,
but I look at it from a place of service,
and how many people from around the world are just
dying for this information. They're so curious, more so than
there was five years ago, ten years ago, twenty years ago.
It seems to be amplifying, meaning that there's more people.
And at the second, you know, it's really interesting. The
second that people find out what I do now they
have questions. They don't have damnation. And it's private questions,
not public questions, because one thing is to be public
one way, another thing to be private. But privately I
get conversations about is this near death experience stuff real?
Is our channelers real, our medium's real? What did that
yogi say on your show? What did that spiritual master say?
And yourself? Are we in a simulation? What does quantum
physics have to do with all of this? Like all
these kind of very large ideas. People are really curious
about it because they're starting to wake up in sense,
even though they might not understand, they're starting to sense
that there is more to this. And do you believe that?
I mean, I do believe that we're going through an
awakening and there's this great awakening happening on the planet
right now. It is happening. But is that feeling where
so many people are starting to question established, established systems
that have been in place for hundreds of years, maybe
even thousands of years. I mean, you can look at
the Catholic Church and the struggles it's been having over
the last twenty or thirty years, and you know things
are going on decline. And our ideas of money, ideas
of economics, idea of compet what's fair, what's not fair,
all that kind of stuff. These are all revolutionary ideas
that are starting to just pop up everywhere where. When
I was a child, there was never even conversation about
this in the public.
Speaker 2: Yes, I was lucky to be introduced this into this,
like pushed into this, Alex. My childhood was completely innocent.
I was I was a total I mean protected by
Indian parents protect their children, especially cultured girl child is
very very special. I was totally protected.
Speaker 1: And we'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
and now back to the show.
Speaker 2: You know, my mother's death. That was what led me
to that, And afterwards there were a lot of things.
Instead of praying for my mother, which the Catholic Church
generally says, pray for the departed souls, so I had
an urge in me to pray to my mother because
I believed in her societyday. I believe that she was
a kind of a saint. So I started praying to her,
and that was when the magic started happening. There were
so many incidents in my life which led to this quest.
I mean, see, people don't believe. My regret is that
people don't believe in angels as much as they believe
in ghosts. So I believe that I always had a
presence with me, and now I certainly believed that it
was my mother who was with me all the time.
And I used to hear a small object, especially when
I was in deep contemplation and working in the kitchen.
I used to hear a small object being moved from
one place, or just a paper fly from one place
one place to another. So many of these things, like
for example, I had given a gift of a jewel
to a very close relative of mine, and she reported
that the jewel had been lost. She couldn't find it
wherever she had kept it. So after some time when
I visited her, and I just had to keep my
hand in the locker, and I found that jewel.
Speaker 3: There so so many simple nicities happened in my life,
and it was like they were they were wanting me
to wake up because I was.
Speaker 2: I was away. I was a person who was afraid
of everything. I lived in total fear. And I also
believe that I could control control everything the people around me,
I could save them. But then once when my husband
he was diagnosed with a heart ailment and he had
to undergo anchioplasty, and even discussing this very seriously, and
the doctor said, said doctor said, immediately, if you have
been report to us. So that was when I remember
in a cart Tolly's book where he says I wasn't
able to live with myself. At that point of time,
he says, I wasn't able to live with myself, and
then he's add a question, then who is the other
I who isn't able to live? So that is the
part that he questioned so that was the exact state.
And at the time I just surrendered, I just surrendered.
I prayed to the That was the first time I
prayed to the universe. I prayed to the God said
I cannot live with this any longer. Let me surrender.
And afterwards so many things started happening like magic, and
there were so many angels around us. It was unbelievable. So,
I mean, we have a lot of support, elexents. There
are miracles happening every day around us, and the only
thing we dismissed them as coincidences.
Speaker 1: M hm, oh yeah, Well let me ask you this,
and I agree, the exact same thing happened to me
with this show. As I surrendered and the second surrendered
and it started, things started to open up, gets started
to show up, success started to happen with this show
that I was not, but it was because I surrendered
and stopped trying to control. And can you talk. I
want you to talk a little bit about this concept
of surrender, because, especially in the Western mind, there is
this idea of control and wanting to control everything because
that's the egos, because the ego wants the ego doesn't
want you to surrender because then it loses its control,
its power. But when you surrender to a higher power
than yourself, whatever you want to call it, the universe, god, source, whatever,
when you surrender to it, I know people were like, well,
if you surrendered to it, then how do you live life?
You can't just let something else control you that have
free will. I mean, all this kind of these kind
of ideas start to creep in, these arguments start to
creep in. And my explanation from my own personal point
of view, and I love to hear yours, is like,
when you surrender, you do not give up the control
of the journey. You give up the control of expectation
of what will happen. So you write a book, you
want it to be read by millions of people. But
if the expectation and you try to control that, that's
when it doesn't work. But you still have to write
the book. And once you write the book, you give
it up, like I'm putting it out to the universe.
Whatever needs to happen for this to do this or
whatever this is supposed to do for the best of
myself and for the world, let that be. And then
but you still have to be active in this process.
You cannot just sit down. So do you agree with that?
Speaker 2: Yes, Savender doesn't mean that you don't work for it.
For example, when I wanted to move into a new house,
I visualized how how the house should be, and I
had an idea and not now I I love, just
love this house. I just love this place. And I
had to go go through a lot of hard work.
I was definitely helped along the way. But then I
don't get frantic about it. I don't get frustrated about it.
I put in all the hard work that I'm supposed
to put in. And even the show, this interview Alex,
how would how would I? It is beyond my dreams
to be invited to the show and talk to you.
But then how does it materialize? And why didn't it
happen earlier? So there is nothing, nothing that it is
simply not in my hands. So things happen when they're
supposed to happen, and when you surrender. See that is
why the Course in Miracles is very very relevant because
it shows you how the ego can manipulate you. The
ego can say that there is a quote in the
Course of Miracles which goes like this, The ego shows you.
It tells you that it can oppose God's will and
present its own will as a gift to you. But
how can we oppose God's will? God's will can never
be opposed, So the ego keeps telling you that can
that you can fight against the situation and somehow make
things happen. So surrender is having faith in God and
also doing your part at the same time, because sometimes
when you keep on struggling and struggling and fighting, then
it becomes more difficult. So there is this idea of
going with the flow, which means that you and let
things happen after you've done your best.
Speaker 1: Right. Is the attachment to outcome is the problem? Is
that is the biggest problem we have. Is because if
you have this attachment to outcome, you want that a
form of control. You want to control it. And most
of us are walking up river, upstream and it's very difficult.
But the water is going to continue to run no
matter what you do. So if anyone's ever tried to
walk upstream in a river, you will understand how futile
it is. And you might be strong at the beginning,
you might last an hour, you might last a day
walking up but at a certain point you get tired
and you lie down and you let the water take
you where it's going to take you.
Speaker 2: In any way, as long as I was resisting things
in my life, I found it very difficult. And also
there was so much psychological stress that was building up
insight me. So when I and that is a stage
where you place real trust in God, isn't it? So?
When you saidder.
Speaker 1: To do this show was one of the scariest things
I've ever had to do in my life, because I
was so fearful of losing everything that I'd done, because
I hadn't come out of this spiritual closet yet. So
once I surrendered, it taught me so much about the
nature of reality, because things happen and continue to happen
with me in this show that are completely out of
my control. I do not control the algorithm of YouTube.
I do not control how people are finding me. These
are things that I have no control over whatsoever. But
yet it continues to happen, and yet it continues to grow,
and yet things are happening that are completely out of
my control. Once I let go, and then I started
seeing it in other aspects of my life and then
when things do a you know, when something negative comes
into the path, I look at it as an opportunity
to grow, as opposed to oh woe is me? Look
what just happened to me? And it's not always easy.
I'm not perfect yet, you know, this is this is
a process. We're all learning on this. You know, we're
not all perfect. But you start looking at things a
little bit differently and go, Okay, well this has been
placed in my path. Why why is this here? What
do I have to learn? How do I approach this? Okay?
What are the lessons that I'm really needing to learn here?
Because I don't want to do this again? And these
are the way the way I walk the path. Now
we'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
and now back to the show. As opposed to the
way I used to word be fighting and very male
energy of like I have to control, I have to dominate,
I have to compete. I have to do all of that.
And at a certain point, at least as I've gotten older,
it's become much easier to do this.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yes, then you are in a kind of a
blissful state when you allow that to take over you
Instead of feeling disappointed all the time. Yeah, that helps. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So one last question I have for you, where do
you think the future of mankind is going with this
great shift?
Speaker 2: So I think many of us have gotten into this,
into this bandwagon of consciousness, and I have a question
for you, Elex. Yes, when would the bigger I mean
the biggies really get involved in this? Because there are
so many exciting things happening in near death experiences which
could be made into movies like The Secret or The
Soul or even The Ghost, which was an interesting movie
where it's an old movie too. So this is the
most interesting phase of humanity.
Speaker 4: And when is when are people who are of consequence
going to take this opportunity and take it to the masters?
Speaker 2: Because I believe when people realize that materialism is just
a delusion, so then they would I mean it's not
as easy as I might make it sound, but still
the message. Once the message, even wars could be premitted.
So I am hopeful for humanity because with so many
near death experiences and people coming back with the messages
saying we were asked to speak about this to as
many people, so this was many people. I've heard many
people say I was afraid to speak about this for
twenty or twenty five years, and now I've come out
of the closet. I'm speaking about this, so there is
a larger picture. I'm definite that something good is going
to happen.
Speaker 1: But all these things, I would agree with you that,
and I've spoken to many of them. That is, like,
I have spoken about this in twenty years, but I
decided to finally come out and talk about this. And
I hear that again and again and again. But what
is it about now that is allowing people to do this?
And I've said this on the show before as well,
is that this show wouldn't have worked twenty years ago
or thirty years ago. It would have been a very
difficult thing. There might have not been the audience that
is ravenous now for this information wasn't around twenty or
thirty years ago. You know, now it's becoming much more.
I mean, if you just type in the word near
death experience on YouTube, my god, I mean there is
so much information now where that that was talked about
like you're crazy, you're insane. These ideas that we're talking
about so freely now were looked upon even a decade
or two ago. As you're on the outskirts. You're on there,
you're in the fringe of society talking about near death
experiences and channeling and christ consciousness and you're a whack job.
Where in today's world, there's more and more people not
only accepting these conversations, but want these conversations in their
lives so they can truly look inward. And and what
did you say? The thing? It was the second self inquiry,
to do self inquiry, yeah, exactly, to to really start
asking these deeper questions. And I do think that the
pandemic did shake the world up with that because we
all had to stop for a minute and go, wait
a minute. I kind of like spending time with my family.
I don't want to work to commute two hours a day.
You know, these all these questions started to come up,
and it was a jarring for the world. I've never
seen anything like that. Just the whole world stopped for
a month or two.
Speaker 2: It was a blow to humanity. Though it was a
blow to humanity. On the one side, it like suit us.
It like made us sit up, and even a nature
around us seemed to be it seemed to have more
freedom at that point because we were over exploiting our
natural resources and the birds were coming out when human
beings had to stay in those So and what did
what message did we get? What message did we get?
The message that the Earth is also a conscious being
and we are doing so much to hurt the earth.
For example, in eighteen not one, when Thomas Youngs spoke
about the nature of reality, so the dual nature of
particles of atoms, people do not believe him. And now
today Clauser he speaks he has got Nobel Price for
physics for his work on quantum entanglement. So but then
how do we get the message across to people? So
what what was discussed before two centuries has come to
fruition now in process.
Speaker 1: It's a it's a slow process. And people still to
this day in the old school of physics are like, oh,
this quantum physics stuff is ridiculous. We can't it doesn't
go along with our materialistic point of view. Constant, yeah,
we can't, we can't allow it. But and for for
over one hundred years there's been honestly not a lot
of advances in quantum physics because there's just been this
fight against it, because it doesn't make sense to them.
Quantum entanglements completely throws materialism out the door and they
cannot wrap their head. So just like Galileo, look through
the telescope, we will not look through the telescope. We
will kill you, but just look the informations right there. Look, look, look, nope,
we will not look through the telescope. And that's where
we are now. I think in many.
Speaker 2: Ways, unlike Bruce Lipton and Craig Breton, so there are
very few people who have I just watched the shows.
I just even on your podcast type what the shows
the absolutely brilliant. But then yeah, we are making at
least we're making a headway in that direction. Yeah, sorry,
I think that people there are many old souls coming back.
These old souls come with more knowledge, and that is
why I presume that they can accept these things better
than people who are like who are older or senior.
Speaker 5: These young these young souls, these young children, even though
they are young, they have so much in built in them,
so they're able to accept all these things.
Speaker 1: So I have children, I know what you're talking about.
The new generation coming up are accepting concepts that took
me years to figure out and understand. But for them,
they're just like, what do you mean, you know, we
shouldn't what is racism? They can't grasp the concept to it.
They're like, really, is that a thing? Oh wow, it's
these these bigger ideas that we're fighting against. They're just like, well,
of course, of course I'm hopeful as well. I'm hopeful
as well, Roselle. Yeah, And now I'm gonna ask you
a few questions. I ask all my guests, what is
your definition of living a fulfilled life?
Speaker 2: A fulfilled life is life with your close your family,
close ones, and doing as much you can to the
best of your ability for the people who who are
close around you. You. Everybody might not be able to
do a lot of social work. For example, my husband
is a social worker. He goes out of his way
to help people, people who he meets on the road,
and but then I do I don't have the opportunity
to do that. But then even doing random acts of
kindness whenever I have the opportunity that would really make
a person. That is my idea of fulfilled life.
Speaker 1: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
and now back to the show. How do you define God?
Speaker 2: God? Is now that I've come to believe that God
is an integral part of me. I feel very close
to him and God has come to my rescue so
many times. So my love for God is unconditional, just
like his love for me. He loves me, Yo, she
How are.
Speaker 1: You and what is the ultimate purpose of life?
Speaker 2: The ultimate purpose of life? Near Deth experiences say that
the life which we find so challenging, is really an
exciting opportunity and it gives us so many flavors and tastes.
But then many of us struggle so much here, So
it depends on what you. I think that I think
life is very exciting.
Speaker 1: It's interesting to say the least. Yes, it's extremely interesting.
And where can people find out more about you and
the books that you've written as well?
Speaker 2: And my books you can find them on Amazon dot
in an Amazon dot Com. And I've written another the
third book, co Create with Your Universe, so that also
can be found on Amazon all over the world and
in India. You can find my books on Notion Press
or Amazon dot.
Speaker 1: And do you have any final words for our audience?
Speaker 2: Russell, be happy, be satisfied, because you are much larger
than what society has conditioned you to be so whatever
your circumstance, believe that you are a part of the Source.
So that would be my parting words ton.
Speaker 1: Audience, eucely and thank you so much for being on
the show. This has been such a wonderful conversation and
I truly hope it helps somebody out there listening to
start walking the path of self inquiry and closer to source,
universe or God, whatever they like to call it. But
I appreciate you and the work that you're doing in
the world, my dear Thank you so much.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much, Alix. It was wonderful to be
on the show.
Speaker 1: Thank you, Thank you for spending this sacred time with
us today. If you feel called to explore this conversation further,
you'll find the show notes for this episode at Next
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