Speaker 1: Welcome to another episode of the Chicks on the Right Podcast.
Our guest today is a familiar and friendly face. It's
Michelle Tafoya from the Tafoya Podcast. And Michelle, we brought
you on the show because you've wrote recently an op
ed for The Washington Times about all the hullabaloo in
women's basketball, and particularly as everybody knows, there's all this,
there's chaos and drama between Caitlin Clark and Angel Reese,
and so we wanted to get the details straight from
the horse's mouth. What is the deal with those two?
Speaker 2: Well, look, I covered the WNBA for the first three
years of its existence. Reggie Miller and I were the
I was the play by play voice, he was the analyst.
And you know, yes, is the league predominantly black? Yes,
it is. I think the numbers around eighty percent of
the players are African Americans. So, but here comes Caitlin
Clark and much less like the analogy I look at
is Tiger Wood's coming to golf, right, and he's a superstar.
He's not just a black player who's competitive, He's a superstar.
He's a once in a lifetime. Well that's what Caitlyn
Clark is it's not her fault that she's white, but
she's resented for that. Like the Angel Reese and others
continue to say black women built this league, and now
all of a sudden, you want to give all the
credit to one white woman. I think it's really unfortunate
because I think what Angel Reese misses is all the
other great black players who came before Kaitlyn Clark, like
Lisa Leslie and Cheryl Swoops, who got loads of attention.
And Angel Reese is used to getting loads of attention
for her fashion, for all these things, I think she's
having a tough time sharing the limelight. So what she
has said publicly is fine, I'll be the bad guy.
I'll be the NEMA of Caitlin Clark. And that way,
when everyone looks back at this league and says who
built it, it won't just be Kaitlyn Clark. It'll be
me sort of the bad guy who helped too. It'll
be more than just one person. That resentment for Kaitlyn
Clark can only be attributed to the fact that she
is white, and she is straight, and she is damn good.
She's the best player on the planet, and they just
they're having a tough time accepting her because she's not
like them.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I like what you talked about representation in your
op ed And I mean, because what about the white
what about the little white girls that look up to
her and think, listen, that's they she represents me and
she's yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, She's also not the first white superstar. I mean
Super Diana Trossi, Rebecca Lobo though Rebecca's part Cube and
I know that. But you know, yes, if you've got
a league that's eighty percent black people, then you get
this white superstar. Why isn't it okay for young white
girls and boys to say she looks like me. If
you can say it. On the other hand, you should
be able to say it this way as well, in
my opinion, and certainly in a league that is, like
I said, predominantly black players, Suddenly here comes someone different. Yeah,
she looks like.
Speaker 1: Me, And why not welcome the additional eyeballs to your sport? Like,
how is that not good news all the way around?
Speaker 2: It is good news all the way around. A rising
tide lifts all boats. And you know, there are some
great great players. Asia Wilson, who plays for Las Vegas.
There's a number of great players in this league who
are now going to have more eyeballs on them because
Caitlin Clark. But that resentment of well, why is she
bringing all the eyeballs? Is it because she's white? Well,
she certainly brings additional white eyeballs. I don't think we
can ignore that. But at the same time, she's just
a hell of a basketball players even.
Speaker 1: If we don't ignore it, Like, why is it a
bad thing? This is what I don't understand, is like,
why why the resentment? Why not just enjoy the fact
that there are more eyeballs on your sport, regardless of
what color is bringing them in.
Speaker 3: In a perfect world, though, we wouldn't even be talking
about this, and it would be she's just a great player.
And you know, my daughter looks up to Like if
my daughter was a basketball player, which she's not, but
if she was a basketball player, she would look up
to any of these girls because they're great freaking players
and who cares how much melanin they have in their skin?
And the fact that we're even making this an issue
just shows you how backwards we're going in society as
a whole. I just this is all so dumb, right,
it's just a.
Speaker 2: Great point that we do seem to be continuing to
look for the victimology in it, and that's rolling us backwards.
By the way, I had a great podcast episode that's forthcoming.
I don't know if either of you have read the
book The Coddling of the American Mind by Jonathan Height
and Greg Lukianov. It's a very powerful, good book about how,
mostly college kids, why there's so much depression, and how
they have become so like they're looking they're looking to
be offended. Now we all know this, we all see it.
Those of us who are observing can see it. And
then the book now has turned into a film, The
Calling of the American Mind, and I would recommend it
to everybody it give up a few you know, Ted
Lasso's or whatever, and watch something that will really make
you think and also understand, maybe even your own kids,
especially if they're in this generation of college. So it
follows these college kids, there are four or five of them,
three of them who came from outside of the United States,
came to America looking for real debate and real argument.
And it's going to be great and everyone's gonna you know,
it's gonna be freedom of speech, and they've come here
and they're like, what the hell is going on here?
I can't say anything? And how they became sort of
indoctrinated into thinking that everyone's out to get them, they
got taught about microaggressions, all of this stuff, and then
how they how they kind of came out of it.
It is remarkable. It is inspiring. It it gives you
a picture into what kids are, why people are believing
this stuff about microaggressions.
Speaker 3: I really hope that we're turning the page though. I
hope that the pendulum is swinging back, because I see
a lot of the gen Zers are becoming like, we're
kind of sick of this, yeah, and we're trying to
be Like I try to tell who is a gen
z Or, our youngest o, our gen z Or fifteen
year old? I think that's gen z right? Is that
gen z Or is at gen Alpha? I have known
she might be on the cusp. She may be, but
I try to, you know, instill in her more critical things.
I'm like, why do you feel this way? Why do
you think this way? Like, I you know, that's I
think that that's been lacking. You're right, because I think
a lot of these kids have been coddled. But I
do think that the youngest generation, maybe it's just who
I see on a day to day basis, they tend
to be a little bit more combative, yeah, and like
a little more challenge the status quo than the generation
before them. I hope that's the case. I hope, hope, hope,
because they've gotten soft, they have gotten thought's true, I know.
Speaker 2: And the world can't accommodate that, like America can't afford
to accommodate that right now, because it's going to put
us in the toilet. Frankly, if we're just all soft.
It's I'm glad you brought that up, though, because and
one of the messages of this film is to put
your ideas on trial, because no one does that in college.
You've got to believe this way, or you know, write
your paper the way I asked you to or and
and without challenging ideas. It reminds me of when my
kid was little, My bo was little little, and he
was afraid that he was going to get attacked by
a shark in his bed. And I remember reading up
on cogitate behavior there and so what you need to
challenge people on is where's your evidence? Like what shows
you that this is good? So I'd say to him, well,
you know, have you seen any sharks on our street,
on our block, in our neighborhood? No? When was the
last time you saw a shark in the house. So
once you start to make them critically think and think
cognitively about what is the reality this, they can only
come to some conclusions that make actual sense. So yeah, anyway,
it's it's that's far afield here. But again it's these
players thinking that it's targeted at them and that they
are being microaggressions of microaggressions.
Speaker 3: A lot of victimology. Yeah, and that's the same with
the transgenders and sports. I think that that whole, that
whole thing that we're seeing happening all over the country.
I mean, even in spite of the executive orders, Trump's
executive orders, we're seeing biological males crushing women all over
the country and all different kinds of sports. And I
don't it's it's just it's to me, it's a lack
of common sense. And it goes back to the whole
WLD we're victims or where somebody we feel like we're
entitled to them marginalized right right.
Speaker 1: And I feel like people are getting there. There's more
bravery when it comes to speaking out against that. I mean,
it's happening more and more, but we're also seeing more
pushback about it. I hope. I at least it seems
that way to me. But then you watch, you know,
the teammate of Ab Hernandez who's like, I'm so excited
that Ab placed ahead of me and I support him.
I mean, I just don't get it. It's so masinality, right.
Speaker 2: Well, I think that I think that it's very easy
to go that direction. If you're a young person. You
you've seen all this support and this you know, virtue
signaling around Ab Hernandez, and it's but it is inspiring
now to see men and women coming out and saying
this is so absurd and so absurdly unfair. I mean,
in period the end, if we say we want a
fair society, but this is okay, I mean again, it's
absurd because I don't care how many purebred blockers you take,
or how many hormones you were born with a certain
chromosomal makeup. You don't have a uterus. That means you
don't have a period every month like these other girls
are competing against. And by the way, they might be
competing the day of their period. You don't have boobs,
so we're built differently. Your hips, your pelvisis structure differently,
your muscle mass is different. I don't care that you
want to present as a girl or identify. That's up
to you. But you can't compete in our division because
we have our own division for a reason.
Speaker 1: Why is this hard?
Speaker 2: It's right, it's not. I think a lot of the
pushback that you talk about is because it's Trump who
is who's put this executive order, and no one wants
to say that Trump is right.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I guess it's just I think there
are a lot of people who feel like maybe it's
the people, And at least that's how I thought at
the beginning, the people who actually never played sports and
never worked really hard for something like this their whole lives,
and then they got to a point where they had
a chance for a scholarship, and then that scholarship can
be taken away because if you look at it on
the flip side, like you don't see girls going into
boys sports.
Speaker 2: Who what do you think that that is.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I didn't think that is.
Speaker 2: It's they can compete. You know, we all know why.
Speaker 3: I mean to me, it's I You know, I have
a a young Our youngest is a swimmer, and so
you know, when Riley Gaines came out and started doing
all this, I was like, bravo to her, because opportunities
are being taken away from girls, Scholarships are being taken away,
and so where are the feminists, Like I look around,
where are they?
Speaker 1: You know?
Speaker 2: I know, I don't know if I've mentioned this to
you guys before, because I've said it to other people.
I know a former NFL player who has daughters who
are out like superb athletes, college bound the whole division
one and asked him to please stand up for this,
and he was afraid. He said, I'm afraid it'll hurt
the brands that I work for and that I represent. Now, fortunately,
some other athletes, Aaron Rodgers, Brian Herlocker, others are coming
out and saying it. But this fear of losing sponsorships
the problem. And you know, you talk about Riley Gaines.
I knew someone I got to be very careful about
this who was covering the NCAAA Swimming Championships when Leah
Thomas was in the pool and this person called me
for advice about being a pool side reporter and how
do I do this? How do if Leah Thomas wins?
What questions can I ask? And we talked about it,
and the fear for this reporter was I gotta be
politically correct even though and listen, I know Olympic swimmers
who are so adamant that this is unfair, but they
can't speak out.
Speaker 3: It's just that's unbelievable. And what really kills me is
when you see Riley and we've talked about this on
our show about you know, Riley's been interviewed and she's
talked about how they literally were groomed. That's the only
word that I could use to describe it. How they
were groomed in these like courses beforehand, on how they
were to deal with Leah when Leah came into that situation.
And this is, you know, like, this is what you're
supposed to act like when when he gets here. This
is or say I say he because it is a male, like,
this is how you're supposed to be, I guess inclusive
with this individual and like they were training the girls
on how to act, which is absurd to me because
to me, that's grooming. It's like, you have a guy
that's going to come into the locker room and show
all of us junk, and this is so okay, we're
not gonna we're gonna make arrangements for him to do that,
and so in order to do that, we're going to
groom you on how to act when he invade your space.
It's absurd.
Speaker 2: It's really weird that the adults in the room are
willing to make these accommodations because, oh, we actually have
a trans swimmer on our team. Okay, this is so
new and novel and we're going to get a lot
of attention about this, so we better do it right,
which means we're going to accommodate the minority marginalized who
they say is marginalized. Right to hell with the girls.
It's yes that you Penn team that Leah Thomas swam for,
was told if you speak out about this, it's going
to affect your job prospects, you know, maybe even your
grades yep on yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well and related, but tangentially, I would like to ask, actually,
both of you, like on a scale of zero to
negative zero. How surprised were you to discover the leaked
medical records of Algerian boxer in Main whatever, whatever his
name is. How surprized were you to see that it
turns out that's a dude.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I was looking at the reports and I was like,
is this actually just this last couple of days? I thought,
is this old? This is because this is sweet? Everyone
knows this, right, we never knew. I honestly didn't think
it was news at first until I saw that it
was this leaked thing. It is not surprising, and it's
baffling to me how so many people wanted to make
excuses for this una totally. You know, look, there is
there are some other factors here.
Speaker 3: It's like, okay, it's like that's a dude. That is
a dude here.
Speaker 2: And here we gave up two gold medals in women's
boxing to men. Yeah again, I as I say that
out loud, I think about it from the context of
the history books and how this will be looked at
fifty hundred years from now and people will be going,
they did what.
Speaker 3: They're so stupid, like if they didn't really they did
it for the sake of feelings.
Speaker 1: Correct, that's what they did.
Speaker 3: They correct.
Speaker 2: Correct.
Speaker 1: So Daisy brought up Trump and the executive orders before,
I mean the fact that he that he enacted these
executive orders saying it is illegal essentially to allow biological
men to you know, insert themselves into women's sports. And
yet it's these blue states that keep allowing it. So
what like, are those what do you think about the
executive orders ultimately forcing the hands of those states or
will they Like is there going what is it going
to take to get I think.
Speaker 2: It's gonna take federal funding. I think it's follow the money.
I think it's going to come down to money. And
I know the DOJ is going to do some investigating
into this. Here in Minnesota where I live, we have
state softball championships going on and there is a biological
boy identifying as a girl pitching for a team that
is kicking the crap out of it. No one can
hit off this picture. And is that the.
Speaker 3: Moment the fourteen like the fourteen shutout innings, Is that
what you're talking about?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Yes, so we're now my daughter plays softball. I've never
seen a picture shut out a team like this.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think so.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's you know again, it's like, now that doesn't
just affect one that affects an entire team and an
entire tournament.
Speaker 3: They were states, they were reigning state champions and then
this this dude comes in and just busts all that
wide open.
Speaker 2: It's not okay, it's not okay, and it's.
Speaker 1: And is it a game of chicken?
Speaker 2: Though?
Speaker 1: Like, do you think that ultimately try they'll go through
with pulling the funding and will that finally be what
it takes to get these states to comply? Or do
you think it's even gonna like how far do you
think this fight is gonna go?
Speaker 2: I don't know. It's it's going to go as far
as these governors wanted to. And if you look at
Tim Walls and Gavin Newsom as the governors of these
two states, and then of course in Washington and Oregon
where the other events happen, we know these are deeply
blue states.
Speaker 1: But Gavin said to Charlie Kirk, he even acknowledged this
is not fair.
Speaker 2: You know what The problem with that statement that he
gave to Charlie Kirk was he said, I acknowledge it's
not fair, but he never said he was going to
do anything about it. Yeah, true, And that's the problem.
It's the doing. This is what my husband always says.
People need to stop talking and start doing. It's the doing.
Speaker 3: And Gavin Newson is famous for that as right, he said.
Speaker 2: He was going to clean up homelessness sixteen years ago.
We can do it worse.
Speaker 3: He could do it for g he just can't do
it for us, right.
Speaker 2: Right, that's exactly right. And by the way, California, he's
talking to China again anyway about cooperation, so Gavin knwsome anyway.
So yes, it's it's astonishing to me. But for some
people this is very It hits them in their core
that we need to be inclusive, and they don't. Again,
I want them to be challenged on their beliefs. I
want them to have to look at evidence and answer
to the the actual evidence in the facts.
Speaker 3: Of the case and data and statistics and not just feels,
not just your feels right.
Speaker 1: And the argument shifts. I mean you notice it shifting
because sometimes you'll see the argument becomes something like, well,
this impacts so few people, and then you start reading
more and more accounts of it happening, and then that
argument is quickly going to go away because you.
Speaker 2: Let me quote the great JD. Vans and saying, do
you hear yourself, Martha, it's just a few apartment are
taken over by Paris. I mean, so we talk about
a few. It's just a few murders.
Speaker 1: M hm.
Speaker 2: Oh No, that anti semitism is just hurting a few people, right.
Speaker 3: It affects just a few girls live.
Speaker 2: It's just a few. But this thing has a ripple effect.
When you throw one stone into a perfectly calm lake,
there are ripples. And so it's it's. It affects the girl,
it affects her parents, it affects her school, It affects
so many it's and it's not just one. For one,
you get a male taking the top spot in a
track meet. Everybody moved down a step. Yeah, and by
the way, the message that it's sending is so powerful
that the girls there they don't matter anymore. Yeah.
Speaker 3: And not only that, but it's not even the girls
that are up on the podium that had to move
down a notch. It's every single little girl that thinks,
why even bother, why I'm not going to even bother
to start training in that particular sport, because why bother
if I'm going to get but if I'm gonna get
kicked out or kicked off of that podium by a dude,
because these adults in the room won't protect me.
Speaker 2: They won't grow a spine. And I just thought of something,
as you said, all the little girls watching, what about
the little boys watching and the ones who maybe come
in last in their track meets and then they go, huh,
what if I grow my hair and she put a
little blush on and say I'm a girl, and then
I can go win. So and you know, yeah, we
need more spine. And it's sad to me that people
like Martina and Nevratulova, who is a very prominent member
of the LGBT community, is saying this is absurd, it's nonsense.
Even you know, Caitlyn Jennings Jennings Jenner, John, I can't
believe I've said Jennings, Kaitlyn Jenner jk Rowling talks about
this stuff all that she has gotten absolutely fried for her,
except that she has a lot of support too. But
the people that go after really go after. And so yeah,
we need we need more men wearing the shirts that
save save women's sports. We need more spine and we
need people, good people to run for office. For sure.
Speaker 1: When politics and pop culture and sports collide, there is
no one better to talk to than you, Michelle Tafoya.
So we're very very glad to have had you. Tell
people how they can listen to your show.
Speaker 2: You can anywhere you get your podcasts. It's the Michelle
Tafoya Podcast. Uh and so we're on We're on Rumble,
we're on YouTube, we're on Apple, Spotify, and you can
follow me on x at Michelle with one L underscore.
Tafoya Taya, thank you so much for having me than
you