1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:02,839 Speaker 1: Welcome to another episode of the Chicks on the Right Podcast. 2 00:00:02,879 --> 00:00:06,400 Our guest today is a familiar and friendly face. It's 3 00:00:06,480 --> 00:00:10,519 Michelle Tafoya from the Tafoya Podcast. And Michelle, we brought 4 00:00:10,519 --> 00:00:13,320 you on the show because you've wrote recently an op 5 00:00:13,439 --> 00:00:17,280 ed for The Washington Times about all the hullabaloo in 6 00:00:17,359 --> 00:00:21,120 women's basketball, and particularly as everybody knows, there's all this, 7 00:00:22,559 --> 00:00:27,239 there's chaos and drama between Caitlin Clark and Angel Reese, 8 00:00:27,280 --> 00:00:30,120 and so we wanted to get the details straight from 9 00:00:30,120 --> 00:00:33,240 the horse's mouth. What is the deal with those two? 10 00:00:34,439 --> 00:00:38,039 Speaker 2: Well, look, I covered the WNBA for the first three 11 00:00:38,119 --> 00:00:41,679 years of its existence. Reggie Miller and I were the 12 00:00:42,679 --> 00:00:45,039 I was the play by play voice, he was the analyst. 13 00:00:45,799 --> 00:00:50,479 And you know, yes, is the league predominantly black? Yes, 14 00:00:50,520 --> 00:00:53,640 it is. I think the numbers around eighty percent of 15 00:00:53,679 --> 00:00:57,799 the players are African Americans. So, but here comes Caitlin 16 00:00:57,880 --> 00:01:02,439 Clark and much less like the analogy I look at 17 00:01:02,560 --> 00:01:06,920 is Tiger Wood's coming to golf, right, and he's a superstar. 18 00:01:07,040 --> 00:01:11,480 He's not just a black player who's competitive, He's a superstar. 19 00:01:11,719 --> 00:01:14,799 He's a once in a lifetime. Well that's what Caitlyn 20 00:01:14,879 --> 00:01:18,760 Clark is it's not her fault that she's white, but 21 00:01:19,519 --> 00:01:24,000 she's resented for that. Like the Angel Reese and others 22 00:01:24,079 --> 00:01:27,280 continue to say black women built this league, and now 23 00:01:27,280 --> 00:01:28,719 all of a sudden, you want to give all the 24 00:01:28,719 --> 00:01:32,920 credit to one white woman. I think it's really unfortunate 25 00:01:32,959 --> 00:01:35,840 because I think what Angel Reese misses is all the 26 00:01:35,959 --> 00:01:39,560 other great black players who came before Kaitlyn Clark, like 27 00:01:39,599 --> 00:01:44,239 Lisa Leslie and Cheryl Swoops, who got loads of attention. 28 00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:47,799 And Angel Reese is used to getting loads of attention 29 00:01:47,959 --> 00:01:50,879 for her fashion, for all these things, I think she's 30 00:01:50,920 --> 00:01:54,799 having a tough time sharing the limelight. So what she 31 00:01:55,040 --> 00:01:59,200 has said publicly is fine, I'll be the bad guy. 32 00:01:59,280 --> 00:02:01,959 I'll be the NEMA of Caitlin Clark. And that way, 33 00:02:02,359 --> 00:02:05,799 when everyone looks back at this league and says who 34 00:02:05,799 --> 00:02:08,919 built it, it won't just be Kaitlyn Clark. It'll be 35 00:02:09,039 --> 00:02:11,800 me sort of the bad guy who helped too. It'll 36 00:02:11,840 --> 00:02:15,439 be more than just one person. That resentment for Kaitlyn 37 00:02:15,520 --> 00:02:19,280 Clark can only be attributed to the fact that she 38 00:02:19,520 --> 00:02:25,800 is white, and she is straight, and she is damn good. 39 00:02:25,840 --> 00:02:29,360 She's the best player on the planet, and they just 40 00:02:29,680 --> 00:02:32,879 they're having a tough time accepting her because she's not 41 00:02:33,080 --> 00:02:33,439 like them. 42 00:02:33,719 --> 00:02:36,719 Speaker 3: Yeah. I like what you talked about representation in your 43 00:02:36,960 --> 00:02:39,759 op ed And I mean, because what about the white 44 00:02:39,800 --> 00:02:41,919 what about the little white girls that look up to 45 00:02:41,960 --> 00:02:45,479 her and think, listen, that's they she represents me and 46 00:02:45,520 --> 00:02:46,840 she's yeah. 47 00:02:46,639 --> 00:02:49,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, She's also not the first white superstar. I mean 48 00:02:49,439 --> 00:02:52,840 Super Diana Trossi, Rebecca Lobo though Rebecca's part Cube and 49 00:02:52,879 --> 00:02:57,479 I know that. But you know, yes, if you've got 50 00:02:57,479 --> 00:03:02,319 a league that's eighty percent black people, then you get 51 00:03:02,319 --> 00:03:06,960 this white superstar. Why isn't it okay for young white 52 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:10,560 girls and boys to say she looks like me. If 53 00:03:10,599 --> 00:03:13,879 you can say it. On the other hand, you should 54 00:03:13,919 --> 00:03:16,840 be able to say it this way as well, in 55 00:03:16,919 --> 00:03:20,000 my opinion, and certainly in a league that is, like 56 00:03:20,080 --> 00:03:26,639 I said, predominantly black players, Suddenly here comes someone different. Yeah, 57 00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:27,879 she looks like. 58 00:03:27,879 --> 00:03:32,800 Speaker 1: Me, And why not welcome the additional eyeballs to your sport? Like, 59 00:03:33,039 --> 00:03:35,319 how is that not good news all the way around? 60 00:03:35,840 --> 00:03:38,000 Speaker 2: It is good news all the way around. A rising 61 00:03:38,080 --> 00:03:41,199 tide lifts all boats. And you know, there are some 62 00:03:41,479 --> 00:03:44,680 great great players. Asia Wilson, who plays for Las Vegas. 63 00:03:44,719 --> 00:03:47,960 There's a number of great players in this league who 64 00:03:47,960 --> 00:03:50,759 are now going to have more eyeballs on them because 65 00:03:50,840 --> 00:03:54,879 Caitlin Clark. But that resentment of well, why is she 66 00:03:54,919 --> 00:03:57,560 bringing all the eyeballs? Is it because she's white? Well, 67 00:03:57,599 --> 00:04:00,240 she certainly brings additional white eyeballs. I don't think we 68 00:04:00,240 --> 00:04:02,759 can ignore that. But at the same time, she's just 69 00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:05,639 a hell of a basketball players even. 70 00:04:05,599 --> 00:04:07,680 Speaker 1: If we don't ignore it, Like, why is it a 71 00:04:07,719 --> 00:04:10,159 bad thing? This is what I don't understand, is like, 72 00:04:10,199 --> 00:04:13,680 why why the resentment? Why not just enjoy the fact 73 00:04:13,719 --> 00:04:16,680 that there are more eyeballs on your sport, regardless of 74 00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:18,839 what color is bringing them in. 75 00:04:19,120 --> 00:04:21,560 Speaker 3: In a perfect world, though, we wouldn't even be talking 76 00:04:21,600 --> 00:04:24,079 about this, and it would be she's just a great player. 77 00:04:24,279 --> 00:04:26,199 And you know, my daughter looks up to Like if 78 00:04:26,240 --> 00:04:28,319 my daughter was a basketball player, which she's not, but 79 00:04:28,360 --> 00:04:30,680 if she was a basketball player, she would look up 80 00:04:30,680 --> 00:04:33,600 to any of these girls because they're great freaking players 81 00:04:33,639 --> 00:04:35,720 and who cares how much melanin they have in their skin? 82 00:04:35,759 --> 00:04:38,560 And the fact that we're even making this an issue 83 00:04:38,920 --> 00:04:41,639 just shows you how backwards we're going in society as 84 00:04:41,639 --> 00:04:43,800 a whole. I just this is all so dumb, right, 85 00:04:43,879 --> 00:04:44,439 it's just a. 86 00:04:44,360 --> 00:04:47,759 Speaker 2: Great point that we do seem to be continuing to 87 00:04:47,800 --> 00:04:50,639 look for the victimology in it, and that's rolling us backwards. 88 00:04:51,120 --> 00:04:55,680 By the way, I had a great podcast episode that's forthcoming. 89 00:04:56,560 --> 00:04:58,240 I don't know if either of you have read the 90 00:04:58,240 --> 00:05:01,120 book The Coddling of the American Mind by Jonathan Height 91 00:05:01,279 --> 00:05:09,399 and Greg Lukianov. It's a very powerful, good book about how, 92 00:05:10,680 --> 00:05:14,680 mostly college kids, why there's so much depression, and how 93 00:05:14,720 --> 00:05:20,759 they have become so like they're looking they're looking to 94 00:05:20,839 --> 00:05:23,120 be offended. Now we all know this, we all see it. 95 00:05:23,160 --> 00:05:28,000 Those of us who are observing can see it. And 96 00:05:28,040 --> 00:05:31,000 then the book now has turned into a film, The 97 00:05:31,040 --> 00:05:33,000 Calling of the American Mind, and I would recommend it 98 00:05:33,040 --> 00:05:37,879 to everybody it give up a few you know, Ted 99 00:05:37,959 --> 00:05:41,519 Lasso's or whatever, and watch something that will really make 100 00:05:41,600 --> 00:05:44,040 you think and also understand, maybe even your own kids, 101 00:05:44,120 --> 00:05:47,199 especially if they're in this generation of college. So it 102 00:05:47,240 --> 00:05:51,000 follows these college kids, there are four or five of them, 103 00:05:51,560 --> 00:05:54,600 three of them who came from outside of the United States, 104 00:05:54,600 --> 00:05:58,920 came to America looking for real debate and real argument. 105 00:05:59,040 --> 00:06:01,720 And it's going to be great and everyone's gonna you know, 106 00:06:01,759 --> 00:06:04,360 it's gonna be freedom of speech, and they've come here 107 00:06:04,399 --> 00:06:06,959 and they're like, what the hell is going on here? 108 00:06:07,399 --> 00:06:12,199 I can't say anything? And how they became sort of 109 00:06:12,199 --> 00:06:15,920 indoctrinated into thinking that everyone's out to get them, they 110 00:06:15,959 --> 00:06:19,879 got taught about microaggressions, all of this stuff, and then 111 00:06:19,920 --> 00:06:23,040 how they how they kind of came out of it. 112 00:06:23,040 --> 00:06:28,439 It is remarkable. It is inspiring. It it gives you 113 00:06:28,519 --> 00:06:32,360 a picture into what kids are, why people are believing 114 00:06:32,439 --> 00:06:34,480 this stuff about microaggressions. 115 00:06:34,800 --> 00:06:37,680 Speaker 3: I really hope that we're turning the page though. I 116 00:06:37,680 --> 00:06:39,839 hope that the pendulum is swinging back, because I see 117 00:06:39,879 --> 00:06:41,759 a lot of the gen Zers are becoming like, we're 118 00:06:41,800 --> 00:06:44,279 kind of sick of this, yeah, and we're trying to 119 00:06:44,319 --> 00:06:47,360 be Like I try to tell who is a gen 120 00:06:47,439 --> 00:06:50,680 z Or, our youngest o, our gen z Or fifteen 121 00:06:50,759 --> 00:06:52,839 year old? I think that's gen z right? Is that 122 00:06:52,839 --> 00:06:54,240 gen z Or is at gen Alpha? I have known 123 00:06:54,560 --> 00:06:56,959 she might be on the cusp. She may be, but 124 00:06:57,360 --> 00:06:59,959 I try to, you know, instill in her more critical things. 125 00:07:00,199 --> 00:07:01,800 I'm like, why do you feel this way? Why do 126 00:07:01,839 --> 00:07:03,759 you think this way? Like, I you know, that's I 127 00:07:03,800 --> 00:07:06,199 think that that's been lacking. You're right, because I think 128 00:07:06,240 --> 00:07:07,879 a lot of these kids have been coddled. But I 129 00:07:07,920 --> 00:07:10,839 do think that the youngest generation, maybe it's just who 130 00:07:10,920 --> 00:07:13,800 I see on a day to day basis, they tend 131 00:07:13,800 --> 00:07:16,439 to be a little bit more combative, yeah, and like 132 00:07:16,920 --> 00:07:20,079 a little more challenge the status quo than the generation 133 00:07:20,240 --> 00:07:23,319 before them. I hope that's the case. I hope, hope, hope, 134 00:07:23,639 --> 00:07:26,720 because they've gotten soft, they have gotten thought's true, I know. 135 00:07:27,360 --> 00:07:30,879 Speaker 2: And the world can't accommodate that, like America can't afford 136 00:07:30,959 --> 00:07:33,720 to accommodate that right now, because it's going to put 137 00:07:33,759 --> 00:07:36,480 us in the toilet. Frankly, if we're just all soft. 138 00:07:37,199 --> 00:07:40,160 It's I'm glad you brought that up, though, because and 139 00:07:40,199 --> 00:07:43,839 one of the messages of this film is to put 140 00:07:43,879 --> 00:07:47,759 your ideas on trial, because no one does that in college. 141 00:07:48,120 --> 00:07:51,040 You've got to believe this way, or you know, write 142 00:07:51,040 --> 00:07:54,240 your paper the way I asked you to or and 143 00:07:54,240 --> 00:07:58,360 and without challenging ideas. It reminds me of when my 144 00:07:58,519 --> 00:08:02,000 kid was little, My bo was little little, and he 145 00:08:02,160 --> 00:08:03,920 was afraid that he was going to get attacked by 146 00:08:03,959 --> 00:08:07,519 a shark in his bed. And I remember reading up 147 00:08:07,560 --> 00:08:11,560 on cogitate behavior there and so what you need to 148 00:08:11,680 --> 00:08:16,199 challenge people on is where's your evidence? Like what shows 149 00:08:16,240 --> 00:08:17,879 you that this is good? So I'd say to him, well, 150 00:08:17,920 --> 00:08:20,600 you know, have you seen any sharks on our street, 151 00:08:20,720 --> 00:08:24,000 on our block, in our neighborhood? No? When was the 152 00:08:24,079 --> 00:08:26,879 last time you saw a shark in the house. So 153 00:08:27,560 --> 00:08:31,279 once you start to make them critically think and think 154 00:08:31,399 --> 00:08:36,159 cognitively about what is the reality this, they can only 155 00:08:36,200 --> 00:08:40,679 come to some conclusions that make actual sense. So yeah, anyway, 156 00:08:40,720 --> 00:08:44,879 it's it's that's far afield here. But again it's these 157 00:08:44,919 --> 00:08:50,039 players thinking that it's targeted at them and that they 158 00:08:50,080 --> 00:08:54,960 are being microaggressions of microaggressions. 159 00:08:54,559 --> 00:08:57,679 Speaker 3: A lot of victimology. Yeah, and that's the same with 160 00:08:57,759 --> 00:09:01,759 the transgenders and sports. I think that that whole, that 161 00:09:01,840 --> 00:09:04,360 whole thing that we're seeing happening all over the country. 162 00:09:04,360 --> 00:09:08,080 I mean, even in spite of the executive orders, Trump's 163 00:09:08,080 --> 00:09:13,159 executive orders, we're seeing biological males crushing women all over 164 00:09:13,200 --> 00:09:16,440 the country and all different kinds of sports. And I 165 00:09:16,519 --> 00:09:19,440 don't it's it's just it's to me, it's a lack 166 00:09:19,480 --> 00:09:21,879 of common sense. And it goes back to the whole 167 00:09:21,879 --> 00:09:24,279 WLD we're victims or where somebody we feel like we're 168 00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:27,480 entitled to them marginalized right right. 169 00:09:27,480 --> 00:09:30,200 Speaker 1: And I feel like people are getting there. There's more 170 00:09:30,639 --> 00:09:33,759 bravery when it comes to speaking out against that. I mean, 171 00:09:33,840 --> 00:09:36,120 it's happening more and more, but we're also seeing more 172 00:09:36,159 --> 00:09:39,519 pushback about it. I hope. I at least it seems 173 00:09:39,559 --> 00:09:41,399 that way to me. But then you watch, you know, 174 00:09:41,480 --> 00:09:45,360 the teammate of Ab Hernandez who's like, I'm so excited 175 00:09:45,399 --> 00:09:50,039 that Ab placed ahead of me and I support him. 176 00:09:50,279 --> 00:09:53,639 I mean, I just don't get it. It's so masinality, right. 177 00:09:53,679 --> 00:09:57,240 Speaker 2: Well, I think that I think that it's very easy 178 00:09:57,320 --> 00:10:00,159 to go that direction. If you're a young person. You 179 00:10:00,159 --> 00:10:05,399 you've seen all this support and this you know, virtue 180 00:10:05,440 --> 00:10:11,720 signaling around Ab Hernandez, and it's but it is inspiring 181 00:10:11,799 --> 00:10:15,080 now to see men and women coming out and saying 182 00:10:15,120 --> 00:10:19,399 this is so absurd and so absurdly unfair. I mean, 183 00:10:19,559 --> 00:10:22,120 in period the end, if we say we want a 184 00:10:22,120 --> 00:10:26,720 fair society, but this is okay, I mean again, it's 185 00:10:26,759 --> 00:10:31,919 absurd because I don't care how many purebred blockers you take, 186 00:10:32,440 --> 00:10:35,279 or how many hormones you were born with a certain 187 00:10:35,360 --> 00:10:39,279 chromosomal makeup. You don't have a uterus. That means you 188 00:10:39,320 --> 00:10:41,720 don't have a period every month like these other girls 189 00:10:41,759 --> 00:10:43,720 are competing against. And by the way, they might be 190 00:10:43,759 --> 00:10:47,080 competing the day of their period. You don't have boobs, 191 00:10:47,679 --> 00:10:52,440 so we're built differently. Your hips, your pelvisis structure differently, 192 00:10:53,000 --> 00:10:56,279 your muscle mass is different. I don't care that you 193 00:10:56,639 --> 00:10:59,279 want to present as a girl or identify. That's up 194 00:10:59,320 --> 00:11:01,720 to you. But you can't compete in our division because 195 00:11:01,759 --> 00:11:03,159 we have our own division for a reason. 196 00:11:03,519 --> 00:11:04,399 Speaker 1: Why is this hard? 197 00:11:04,639 --> 00:11:07,159 Speaker 2: It's right, it's not. I think a lot of the 198 00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:11,080 pushback that you talk about is because it's Trump who 199 00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:13,679 is who's put this executive order, and no one wants 200 00:11:13,759 --> 00:11:15,120 to say that Trump is right. 201 00:11:15,600 --> 00:11:18,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I guess it's just I think there 202 00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:20,159 are a lot of people who feel like maybe it's 203 00:11:20,159 --> 00:11:22,120 the people, And at least that's how I thought at 204 00:11:22,120 --> 00:11:24,639 the beginning, the people who actually never played sports and 205 00:11:24,720 --> 00:11:27,440 never worked really hard for something like this their whole lives, 206 00:11:27,440 --> 00:11:29,080 and then they got to a point where they had 207 00:11:29,080 --> 00:11:31,480 a chance for a scholarship, and then that scholarship can 208 00:11:31,519 --> 00:11:32,919 be taken away because if you look at it on 209 00:11:32,960 --> 00:11:35,200 the flip side, like you don't see girls going into 210 00:11:35,240 --> 00:11:35,840 boys sports. 211 00:11:35,879 --> 00:11:38,080 Speaker 2: Who what do you think that that is. 212 00:11:38,399 --> 00:11:39,679 Speaker 1: Yeah, I didn't think that is. 213 00:11:39,960 --> 00:11:42,879 Speaker 2: It's they can compete. You know, we all know why. 214 00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:44,720 Speaker 3: I mean to me, it's I You know, I have 215 00:11:44,799 --> 00:11:48,320 a a young Our youngest is a swimmer, and so 216 00:11:48,519 --> 00:11:50,720 you know, when Riley Gaines came out and started doing 217 00:11:50,759 --> 00:11:54,320 all this, I was like, bravo to her, because opportunities 218 00:11:54,360 --> 00:11:57,399 are being taken away from girls, Scholarships are being taken away, 219 00:11:57,440 --> 00:11:59,759 and so where are the feminists, Like I look around, 220 00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:00,840 where are they? 221 00:12:01,039 --> 00:12:01,240 Speaker 1: You know? 222 00:12:02,240 --> 00:12:04,440 Speaker 2: I know, I don't know if I've mentioned this to 223 00:12:04,480 --> 00:12:06,600 you guys before, because I've said it to other people. 224 00:12:06,679 --> 00:12:10,799 I know a former NFL player who has daughters who 225 00:12:10,799 --> 00:12:15,039 are out like superb athletes, college bound the whole division 226 00:12:15,039 --> 00:12:19,120 one and asked him to please stand up for this, 227 00:12:19,320 --> 00:12:22,840 and he was afraid. He said, I'm afraid it'll hurt 228 00:12:22,960 --> 00:12:26,360 the brands that I work for and that I represent. Now, fortunately, 229 00:12:26,399 --> 00:12:29,799 some other athletes, Aaron Rodgers, Brian Herlocker, others are coming 230 00:12:29,799 --> 00:12:35,639 out and saying it. But this fear of losing sponsorships 231 00:12:35,759 --> 00:12:38,720 the problem. And you know, you talk about Riley Gaines. 232 00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:42,720 I knew someone I got to be very careful about 233 00:12:42,720 --> 00:12:47,240 this who was covering the NCAAA Swimming Championships when Leah 234 00:12:47,240 --> 00:12:50,159 Thomas was in the pool and this person called me 235 00:12:50,240 --> 00:12:54,879 for advice about being a pool side reporter and how 236 00:12:54,879 --> 00:12:58,320 do I do this? How do if Leah Thomas wins? 237 00:12:58,960 --> 00:13:02,279 What questions can I ask? And we talked about it, 238 00:13:02,320 --> 00:13:07,759 and the fear for this reporter was I gotta be 239 00:13:07,799 --> 00:13:12,200 politically correct even though and listen, I know Olympic swimmers 240 00:13:12,720 --> 00:13:16,440 who are so adamant that this is unfair, but they 241 00:13:16,480 --> 00:13:17,279 can't speak out. 242 00:13:17,759 --> 00:13:21,919 Speaker 3: It's just that's unbelievable. And what really kills me is 243 00:13:21,960 --> 00:13:24,120 when you see Riley and we've talked about this on 244 00:13:24,159 --> 00:13:27,360 our show about you know, Riley's been interviewed and she's 245 00:13:27,360 --> 00:13:30,039 talked about how they literally were groomed. That's the only 246 00:13:30,159 --> 00:13:32,120 word that I could use to describe it. How they 247 00:13:32,120 --> 00:13:36,600 were groomed in these like courses beforehand, on how they 248 00:13:36,639 --> 00:13:39,600 were to deal with Leah when Leah came into that situation. 249 00:13:40,559 --> 00:13:42,960 And this is, you know, like, this is what you're 250 00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:45,919 supposed to act like when when he gets here. This 251 00:13:46,039 --> 00:13:48,919 is or say I say he because it is a male, like, 252 00:13:49,120 --> 00:13:53,799 this is how you're supposed to be, I guess inclusive 253 00:13:54,279 --> 00:13:57,480 with this individual and like they were training the girls 254 00:13:57,519 --> 00:14:01,080 on how to act, which is absurd to me because 255 00:14:01,679 --> 00:14:03,799 to me, that's grooming. It's like, you have a guy 256 00:14:03,840 --> 00:14:05,600 that's going to come into the locker room and show 257 00:14:05,600 --> 00:14:08,440 all of us junk, and this is so okay, we're 258 00:14:08,440 --> 00:14:11,200 not gonna we're gonna make arrangements for him to do that, 259 00:14:11,360 --> 00:14:12,799 and so in order to do that, we're going to 260 00:14:12,840 --> 00:14:16,080 groom you on how to act when he invade your space. 261 00:14:16,480 --> 00:14:17,080 It's absurd. 262 00:14:17,840 --> 00:14:21,799 Speaker 2: It's really weird that the adults in the room are 263 00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:27,440 willing to make these accommodations because, oh, we actually have 264 00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:29,840 a trans swimmer on our team. Okay, this is so 265 00:14:30,519 --> 00:14:33,519 new and novel and we're going to get a lot 266 00:14:33,559 --> 00:14:36,639 of attention about this, so we better do it right, 267 00:14:37,360 --> 00:14:41,919 which means we're going to accommodate the minority marginalized who 268 00:14:41,919 --> 00:14:46,840 they say is marginalized. Right to hell with the girls. 269 00:14:45,759 --> 00:14:51,360 It's yes that you Penn team that Leah Thomas swam for, 270 00:14:52,360 --> 00:14:54,240 was told if you speak out about this, it's going 271 00:14:54,279 --> 00:14:57,879 to affect your job prospects, you know, maybe even your 272 00:14:57,919 --> 00:15:01,519 grades yep on yeah. 273 00:15:01,639 --> 00:15:08,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, well and related, but tangentially, I would like to ask, actually, 274 00:15:08,240 --> 00:15:10,840 both of you, like on a scale of zero to 275 00:15:12,120 --> 00:15:15,720 negative zero. How surprised were you to discover the leaked 276 00:15:15,759 --> 00:15:21,360 medical records of Algerian boxer in Main whatever, whatever his 277 00:15:21,480 --> 00:15:24,440 name is. How surprized were you to see that it 278 00:15:24,519 --> 00:15:26,240 turns out that's a dude. 279 00:15:26,720 --> 00:15:27,399 Speaker 3: Yeah. 280 00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:29,799 Speaker 2: I was looking at the reports and I was like, 281 00:15:30,799 --> 00:15:32,960 is this actually just this last couple of days? I thought, 282 00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:35,840 is this old? This is because this is sweet? Everyone 283 00:15:35,879 --> 00:15:39,080 knows this, right, we never knew. I honestly didn't think 284 00:15:39,120 --> 00:15:42,039 it was news at first until I saw that it 285 00:15:42,080 --> 00:15:45,679 was this leaked thing. It is not surprising, and it's 286 00:15:45,759 --> 00:15:48,440 baffling to me how so many people wanted to make 287 00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:52,480 excuses for this una totally. You know, look, there is 288 00:15:52,559 --> 00:15:54,840 there are some other factors here. 289 00:15:55,039 --> 00:15:58,559 Speaker 3: It's like, okay, it's like that's a dude. That is 290 00:15:58,600 --> 00:16:03,080 a dude here. 291 00:16:01,519 --> 00:16:05,519 Speaker 2: And here we gave up two gold medals in women's 292 00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:11,679 boxing to men. Yeah again, I as I say that 293 00:16:11,759 --> 00:16:14,799 out loud, I think about it from the context of 294 00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:17,480 the history books and how this will be looked at 295 00:16:17,559 --> 00:16:19,519 fifty hundred years from now and people will be going, 296 00:16:19,879 --> 00:16:20,919 they did what. 297 00:16:20,919 --> 00:16:23,679 Speaker 3: They're so stupid, like if they didn't really they did 298 00:16:23,679 --> 00:16:25,279 it for the sake of feelings. 299 00:16:25,919 --> 00:16:27,000 Speaker 1: Correct, that's what they did. 300 00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:27,879 Speaker 3: They correct. 301 00:16:28,480 --> 00:16:28,840 Speaker 2: Correct. 302 00:16:28,879 --> 00:16:32,919 Speaker 1: So Daisy brought up Trump and the executive orders before, 303 00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:36,559 I mean the fact that he that he enacted these 304 00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:41,360 executive orders saying it is illegal essentially to allow biological 305 00:16:41,399 --> 00:16:45,679 men to you know, insert themselves into women's sports. And 306 00:16:45,799 --> 00:16:49,039 yet it's these blue states that keep allowing it. So 307 00:16:49,480 --> 00:16:53,200 what like, are those what do you think about the 308 00:16:53,240 --> 00:16:56,960 executive orders ultimately forcing the hands of those states or 309 00:16:57,000 --> 00:16:59,399 will they Like is there going what is it going 310 00:16:59,440 --> 00:17:00,639 to take to get I think. 311 00:17:00,480 --> 00:17:03,360 Speaker 2: It's gonna take federal funding. I think it's follow the money. 312 00:17:03,399 --> 00:17:06,039 I think it's going to come down to money. And 313 00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:08,599 I know the DOJ is going to do some investigating 314 00:17:08,640 --> 00:17:10,759 into this. Here in Minnesota where I live, we have 315 00:17:11,359 --> 00:17:15,480 state softball championships going on and there is a biological 316 00:17:15,559 --> 00:17:20,000 boy identifying as a girl pitching for a team that 317 00:17:20,160 --> 00:17:23,160 is kicking the crap out of it. No one can 318 00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:26,359 hit off this picture. And is that the. 319 00:17:26,319 --> 00:17:29,559 Speaker 3: Moment the fourteen like the fourteen shutout innings, Is that 320 00:17:29,519 --> 00:17:30,400 what you're talking about? 321 00:17:30,519 --> 00:17:30,759 Speaker 1: Yeah? 322 00:17:30,839 --> 00:17:34,599 Speaker 2: Yes, so we're now my daughter plays softball. I've never 323 00:17:34,640 --> 00:17:37,519 seen a picture shut out a team like this. 324 00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:38,200 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think so. 325 00:17:38,640 --> 00:17:41,839 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's you know again, it's like, now that doesn't 326 00:17:41,880 --> 00:17:44,359 just affect one that affects an entire team and an 327 00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:45,200 entire tournament. 328 00:17:45,559 --> 00:17:48,000 Speaker 3: They were states, they were reigning state champions and then 329 00:17:48,039 --> 00:17:50,839 this this dude comes in and just busts all that 330 00:17:50,880 --> 00:17:51,440 wide open. 331 00:17:51,559 --> 00:17:55,000 Speaker 2: It's not okay, it's not okay, and it's. 332 00:17:54,920 --> 00:17:56,079 Speaker 1: And is it a game of chicken? 333 00:17:56,079 --> 00:17:56,279 Speaker 2: Though? 334 00:17:56,319 --> 00:17:59,279 Speaker 1: Like, do you think that ultimately try they'll go through 335 00:17:59,319 --> 00:18:03,359 with pulling the funding and will that finally be what 336 00:18:03,440 --> 00:18:05,440 it takes to get these states to comply? Or do 337 00:18:05,480 --> 00:18:07,519 you think it's even gonna like how far do you 338 00:18:07,559 --> 00:18:08,640 think this fight is gonna go? 339 00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:10,599 Speaker 2: I don't know. It's it's going to go as far 340 00:18:10,599 --> 00:18:12,440 as these governors wanted to. And if you look at 341 00:18:12,440 --> 00:18:15,160 Tim Walls and Gavin Newsom as the governors of these 342 00:18:15,160 --> 00:18:17,599 two states, and then of course in Washington and Oregon 343 00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:20,720 where the other events happen, we know these are deeply 344 00:18:20,759 --> 00:18:21,519 blue states. 345 00:18:21,720 --> 00:18:24,640 Speaker 1: But Gavin said to Charlie Kirk, he even acknowledged this 346 00:18:24,799 --> 00:18:25,759 is not fair. 347 00:18:26,359 --> 00:18:28,920 Speaker 2: You know what The problem with that statement that he 348 00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:31,039 gave to Charlie Kirk was he said, I acknowledge it's 349 00:18:31,079 --> 00:18:33,000 not fair, but he never said he was going to 350 00:18:33,119 --> 00:18:36,440 do anything about it. Yeah, true, And that's the problem. 351 00:18:36,519 --> 00:18:39,319 It's the doing. This is what my husband always says. 352 00:18:39,680 --> 00:18:44,119 People need to stop talking and start doing. It's the doing. 353 00:18:44,319 --> 00:18:47,680 Speaker 3: And Gavin Newson is famous for that as right, he said. 354 00:18:47,519 --> 00:18:50,119 Speaker 2: He was going to clean up homelessness sixteen years ago. 355 00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:51,279 We can do it worse. 356 00:18:51,480 --> 00:18:53,480 Speaker 3: He could do it for g he just can't do 357 00:18:53,519 --> 00:18:54,440 it for us, right. 358 00:18:54,519 --> 00:18:57,240 Speaker 2: Right, that's exactly right. And by the way, California, he's 359 00:18:57,279 --> 00:19:03,279 talking to China again anyway about cooperation, so Gavin knwsome anyway. 360 00:19:03,400 --> 00:19:08,319 So yes, it's it's astonishing to me. But for some 361 00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:11,519 people this is very It hits them in their core 362 00:19:11,599 --> 00:19:16,200 that we need to be inclusive, and they don't. Again, 363 00:19:16,279 --> 00:19:18,599 I want them to be challenged on their beliefs. I 364 00:19:18,640 --> 00:19:22,039 want them to have to look at evidence and answer 365 00:19:22,079 --> 00:19:24,440 to the the actual evidence in the facts. 366 00:19:24,240 --> 00:19:27,839 Speaker 3: Of the case and data and statistics and not just feels, 367 00:19:28,359 --> 00:19:30,200 not just your feels right. 368 00:19:30,680 --> 00:19:33,119 Speaker 1: And the argument shifts. I mean you notice it shifting 369 00:19:34,240 --> 00:19:37,359 because sometimes you'll see the argument becomes something like, well, 370 00:19:37,359 --> 00:19:41,759 this impacts so few people, and then you start reading 371 00:19:41,759 --> 00:19:43,920 more and more accounts of it happening, and then that 372 00:19:44,079 --> 00:19:47,079 argument is quickly going to go away because you. 373 00:19:47,079 --> 00:19:49,519 Speaker 2: Let me quote the great JD. Vans and saying, do 374 00:19:49,599 --> 00:19:53,559 you hear yourself, Martha, it's just a few apartment are 375 00:19:53,599 --> 00:19:57,359 taken over by Paris. I mean, so we talk about 376 00:19:57,359 --> 00:19:59,680 a few. It's just a few murders. 377 00:20:00,039 --> 00:20:00,319 Speaker 1: M hm. 378 00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:04,920 Speaker 2: Oh No, that anti semitism is just hurting a few people, right. 379 00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:08,079 Speaker 3: It affects just a few girls live. 380 00:20:08,039 --> 00:20:10,920 Speaker 2: It's just a few. But this thing has a ripple effect. 381 00:20:11,319 --> 00:20:14,440 When you throw one stone into a perfectly calm lake, 382 00:20:14,599 --> 00:20:18,400 there are ripples. And so it's it's. It affects the girl, 383 00:20:18,519 --> 00:20:22,119 it affects her parents, it affects her school, It affects 384 00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:24,640 so many it's and it's not just one. For one, 385 00:20:25,160 --> 00:20:27,000 you get a male taking the top spot in a 386 00:20:27,079 --> 00:20:31,200 track meet. Everybody moved down a step. Yeah, and by 387 00:20:31,240 --> 00:20:35,440 the way, the message that it's sending is so powerful 388 00:20:35,480 --> 00:20:39,839 that the girls there they don't matter anymore. Yeah. 389 00:20:39,880 --> 00:20:42,000 Speaker 3: And not only that, but it's not even the girls 390 00:20:42,039 --> 00:20:43,799 that are up on the podium that had to move 391 00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:47,319 down a notch. It's every single little girl that thinks, 392 00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:50,559 why even bother, why I'm not going to even bother 393 00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:54,599 to start training in that particular sport, because why bother 394 00:20:55,079 --> 00:20:56,759 if I'm going to get but if I'm gonna get 395 00:20:56,839 --> 00:20:59,359 kicked out or kicked off of that podium by a dude, 396 00:20:59,519 --> 00:21:02,079 because these adults in the room won't protect me. 397 00:21:02,119 --> 00:21:04,680 Speaker 2: They won't grow a spine. And I just thought of something, 398 00:21:04,720 --> 00:21:07,680 as you said, all the little girls watching, what about 399 00:21:07,680 --> 00:21:11,640 the little boys watching and the ones who maybe come 400 00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:16,240 in last in their track meets and then they go, huh, 401 00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:20,519 what if I grow my hair and she put a 402 00:21:20,559 --> 00:21:24,440 little blush on and say I'm a girl, and then 403 00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:31,079 I can go win. So and you know, yeah, we 404 00:21:31,160 --> 00:21:34,480 need more spine. And it's sad to me that people 405 00:21:34,559 --> 00:21:38,759 like Martina and Nevratulova, who is a very prominent member 406 00:21:38,799 --> 00:21:43,720 of the LGBT community, is saying this is absurd, it's nonsense. 407 00:21:43,799 --> 00:21:48,720 Even you know, Caitlyn Jennings Jennings Jenner, John, I can't 408 00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:54,240 believe I've said Jennings, Kaitlyn Jenner jk Rowling talks about 409 00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:57,759 this stuff all that she has gotten absolutely fried for her, 410 00:21:57,880 --> 00:21:59,720 except that she has a lot of support too. But 411 00:21:59,759 --> 00:22:03,319 the people that go after really go after. And so yeah, 412 00:22:03,359 --> 00:22:05,880 we need we need more men wearing the shirts that 413 00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:09,720 save save women's sports. We need more spine and we 414 00:22:09,799 --> 00:22:12,920 need people, good people to run for office. For sure. 415 00:22:13,559 --> 00:22:18,240 Speaker 1: When politics and pop culture and sports collide, there is 416 00:22:18,279 --> 00:22:20,599 no one better to talk to than you, Michelle Tafoya. 417 00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:22,599 So we're very very glad to have had you. Tell 418 00:22:22,599 --> 00:22:24,359 people how they can listen to your show. 419 00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:27,359 Speaker 2: You can anywhere you get your podcasts. It's the Michelle 420 00:22:27,359 --> 00:22:30,880 Tafoya Podcast. Uh and so we're on We're on Rumble, 421 00:22:30,920 --> 00:22:34,039 we're on YouTube, we're on Apple, Spotify, and you can 422 00:22:34,079 --> 00:22:39,160 follow me on x at Michelle with one L underscore. 423 00:22:39,240 --> 00:22:43,960 Tafoya Taya, thank you so much for having me than 424 00:22:44,079 --> 00:22:44,119 you