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Noisy? 54 00:02:13.120 --> 00:02:16.560 You are now listening to true Murder, The most shocking 55 00:02:16.639 --> 00:02:19.680 killers in true crime history and the authors that have 56 00:02:19.759 --> 00:02:20.599 written about them. 57 00:02:21.319 --> 00:02:25.840 Gasey Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker BTK. 58 00:02:26.719 --> 00:02:30.560 Every week, another fascinating author talking about the most shocking 59 00:02:30.639 --> 00:02:34.800 and infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with 60 00:02:34.879 --> 00:02:50.000 your host, journalist and author Dan Zupanski. Mary Thompson was 61 00:02:50.039 --> 00:02:55.039 your average mother in early nineteen nineties Eugene, Oregon. She 62 00:02:55.159 --> 00:03:00.479 was a community organizer and upstanding citizen by day. By night, 63 00:03:00.719 --> 00:03:04.639 she was Gangmum, living the ultimate double life. Thompson ran 64 00:03:04.680 --> 00:03:08.560 a gang of teenagers, including her own son, who terrorized 65 00:03:08.560 --> 00:03:12.759 the unsuspecting city with drugs and violence. When a fellow 66 00:03:12.800 --> 00:03:16.000 gang member named Aaron Atura was suspected of snitching on 67 00:03:16.080 --> 00:03:20.919 Thoms's son, Bo, she mercilessly put a hit on him. 68 00:03:20.960 --> 00:03:24.599 Fred Rosen's Gangmum gives an inside look into the true 69 00:03:24.639 --> 00:03:27.639 story of a mother who would do anything, even murder, 70 00:03:28.120 --> 00:03:31.159 to protect her son and keep her gang empire alive. 71 00:03:31.919 --> 00:03:34.639 The book they were featuring this evening is Gangmum, The 72 00:03:34.680 --> 00:03:38.280 Evil Mother whose gang secretly prayed on a city. With 73 00:03:38.360 --> 00:03:41.719 my special guest, journalist and author Fred Rosen, Welcome back 74 00:03:41.759 --> 00:03:44.159 to the program and thank you very much once again 75 00:03:44.199 --> 00:03:49.199 for appearing on this program. Fred Rosen, Well, Dan the 76 00:03:49.319 --> 00:03:53.400 man Zupansky, It is always my pleasure to be with you, 77 00:03:53.479 --> 00:03:58.439 sir Well, I would say respectfully that it's always my pleasure. 78 00:03:58.560 --> 00:04:04.439 And Againaradi and a lot of Sometimes Fred Rosen has 79 00:04:04.439 --> 00:04:07.360 been on very many times. You've often been controversial, So 80 00:04:10.360 --> 00:04:13.280 not with high controversy. 81 00:04:13.719 --> 00:04:15.000 I won't disappoint Dan. 82 00:04:17.680 --> 00:04:23.360 Now this yeah, absolutely? Uh Now with this gang, mom, 83 00:04:23.439 --> 00:04:26.560 let's let's start with the Open Road tell us a 84 00:04:26.560 --> 00:04:28.240 little bit about this reissue. 85 00:04:28.399 --> 00:04:29.639 And before we. 86 00:04:29.600 --> 00:04:32.600 Start anything, let's tell us take us back to how 87 00:04:32.639 --> 00:04:36.120 you came to be involved with this project. And but 88 00:04:36.240 --> 00:04:39.639 first tell us about this reissue. This from this Open 89 00:04:39.680 --> 00:04:40.800 Road publication. 90 00:04:41.279 --> 00:04:45.360 Sure. Open Road Media is the largest publisher of the 91 00:04:45.480 --> 00:04:52.000 books in I guess in North America. Uh, And they 92 00:04:52.319 --> 00:04:57.000 are publishing a lot of my true crime books that 93 00:04:57.079 --> 00:04:59.839 I did previously for other publishers that quite frankly went 94 00:04:59.839 --> 00:05:04.040 to out of print. And so this is one of 95 00:05:04.079 --> 00:05:08.000 those books. And what they do, which is really cool, 96 00:05:08.279 --> 00:05:11.959 is they repub them. But the e books sell for like, 97 00:05:12.120 --> 00:05:15.800 I don't know, four ninety nine, five thirty nine, something 98 00:05:15.879 --> 00:05:18.959 like that, so they're really I think affordable, and then 99 00:05:19.000 --> 00:05:22.240 if a person wants a hard copy, they can buy 100 00:05:22.399 --> 00:05:26.879 a trade paperback which sells for twelve ninety nine. And 101 00:05:26.920 --> 00:05:32.319 it gives me an opportunity to to take a look at, 102 00:05:32.480 --> 00:05:35.279 you know, what I've done in the past, and at 103 00:05:35.279 --> 00:05:38.720 the same time to update, and it gives me perspective 104 00:05:39.319 --> 00:05:42.560 on stuff going forward. And so these guys are just 105 00:05:42.680 --> 00:05:45.120 tremendous to work with. And as I said, they are 106 00:05:45.160 --> 00:05:49.519 the largest publisher of e books in North America, and 107 00:05:49.879 --> 00:05:55.160 they publish a lot of extremely well known authors like 108 00:05:55.680 --> 00:05:59.319 one of my you know, like Charles Dickens, you know, 109 00:06:00.000 --> 00:06:02.839 and stuff like that, you know, classic stuff and then 110 00:06:03.000 --> 00:06:06.519 contemporary stuff like one of my favorite novelists, William Goldman, 111 00:06:06.519 --> 00:06:09.399 who wrote the screenplay for Brocassidy and The Sundance Kidne 112 00:06:09.519 --> 00:06:15.279 is a tremendous novelist. And also of course true crime. 113 00:06:15.319 --> 00:06:21.240 They're one of the few houses that really will publish 114 00:06:21.360 --> 00:06:25.560 true crime, which since the recession DAN there are very 115 00:06:25.600 --> 00:06:29.519 few that will. So it becomes very difficult when you're 116 00:06:29.519 --> 00:06:34.160 a fan to find stuff to read, and they're right 117 00:06:34.199 --> 00:06:37.600 out there doing it. And so it's you know, I 118 00:06:38.199 --> 00:06:41.240 don't usually extole the virtues of a publisher but these 119 00:06:41.279 --> 00:06:45.920 guys have been absolutely terrific. Yeah. 120 00:06:45.920 --> 00:06:47.639 I gotta agree with you too, and I see the 121 00:06:47.800 --> 00:06:52.959 entire repackaging of them and also their recognition of it's 122 00:06:53.000 --> 00:06:55.800 not just numbers, it's a quantity. It's a matter of 123 00:06:55.839 --> 00:06:59.600 recognizing which of those true crime books really did really 124 00:06:59.600 --> 00:07:02.439 well back in the day, and it's deservedly need to 125 00:07:02.480 --> 00:07:04.600 be re released. It's just again, like you say, the 126 00:07:04.600 --> 00:07:07.759 recession really seemed to do damage. It wasn't the biggest 127 00:07:07.800 --> 00:07:11.040 genre per se, but it was thriving, but you wouldn't 128 00:07:11.120 --> 00:07:14.959 known it now. So these people that understand true crime 129 00:07:15.000 --> 00:07:19.600 a lot more in fact understand it and recognize good 130 00:07:19.639 --> 00:07:22.920 true crime. These people are reissuing this stuff for the 131 00:07:22.920 --> 00:07:26.439 true crime reader. So it's good work they. 132 00:07:26.519 --> 00:07:29.040 Yeah, and they can't you know again, I mean you 133 00:07:29.040 --> 00:07:32.079 know they care. I mean it's a weird one because 134 00:07:32.160 --> 00:07:35.639 I have never dealt with a house weird people really 135 00:07:35.759 --> 00:07:41.680 care as much as these individuals do. At least, you know, 136 00:07:41.759 --> 00:07:45.240 not to say that other houses don't care. But these 137 00:07:45.279 --> 00:07:48.920 guys have made a commitment to this genre. I'm not 138 00:07:48.959 --> 00:07:51.839 the only only a person who writes true crime there. 139 00:07:52.120 --> 00:07:54.680 You know, there are others obviously that that work for 140 00:07:54.759 --> 00:07:57.839 them and they're open, you know, I mean, they're open 141 00:07:57.920 --> 00:08:06.839 to this stuff, hn't you know? But seriously, it they're 142 00:08:06.879 --> 00:08:10.120 they're they're they're they're really good about it. And uh. 143 00:08:10.279 --> 00:08:17.560 And I've learned a lot about about the marketing and 144 00:08:17.639 --> 00:08:22.800 I've learned more about marketing and promotion of books period 145 00:08:23.040 --> 00:08:24.800 in the year and a half i've worked with them 146 00:08:24.839 --> 00:08:28.199 than thirty years working with other houses. Because they're open, 147 00:08:28.639 --> 00:08:31.439 they work with the author, and they're very friendly with 148 00:08:31.519 --> 00:08:35.440 the author, and they're smart. I don't know what else 149 00:08:35.480 --> 00:08:39.039 to say. And Jane Friedman, who used to be the 150 00:08:39.080 --> 00:08:45.440 CEO of of HarperCollins, is their CEO, so she's got 151 00:08:45.440 --> 00:08:48.519 a big background in this, in this you know, publishing 152 00:08:48.840 --> 00:08:51.840 and uh. And also the other thing that I really 153 00:08:52.000 --> 00:08:56.559 enjoy is they employ people from all over you know, 154 00:08:56.600 --> 00:08:58.320 I don't have to tell you. I mean, like, I'm 155 00:08:58.360 --> 00:09:01.519 not interested in talking to somebody who just from New York. Daw, 156 00:09:01.720 --> 00:09:04.000 I'm from New York. You know, I want to talk 157 00:09:04.039 --> 00:09:06.559 to somebody who's from thunder Bay, you know what I mean. 158 00:09:07.559 --> 00:09:09.639 I mean, you know that's when you begin to learn. 159 00:09:09.480 --> 00:09:16.080 Starf Well, I questioned that, but so let's get back 160 00:09:16.120 --> 00:09:20.440 to let's get back to how you came at this 161 00:09:20.639 --> 00:09:23.039 time to want to pick this. I mean, you picked 162 00:09:23.039 --> 00:09:25.919 the most fantastic stories for your books, But tell us 163 00:09:25.960 --> 00:09:28.120 how you came to be interested in this, how you 164 00:09:28.159 --> 00:09:29.919 came to write this book? Gang Mom. 165 00:09:31.360 --> 00:09:34.279 Well, what happened was it was in the late nineteen 166 00:09:34.360 --> 00:09:41.080 nineties and I saw the story in a newspaper and 167 00:09:42.080 --> 00:09:46.000 I thought, wow, this is pretty interesting. And I at 168 00:09:46.000 --> 00:09:49.720 that time, I was writing for the Reader's Digest, and 169 00:09:50.240 --> 00:09:53.039 I proposed it as a as a true crime story, 170 00:09:53.679 --> 00:09:57.320 and they went, oh, that's cool, why don't you do it. Well, 171 00:09:57.360 --> 00:10:00.320 the next thing you know, I'm on a plane to 172 00:10:00.440 --> 00:10:05.960 use me to Eugenie to do this, to do this book. 173 00:10:06.679 --> 00:10:10.840 And I'd never been to Oregon, so it was like 174 00:10:12.919 --> 00:10:16.360 that was interesting to me because I just have this 175 00:10:16.480 --> 00:10:19.200 thing dan where I want to get to all fifty states. 176 00:10:19.399 --> 00:10:22.720 So this was another one I could not boss. And 177 00:10:22.879 --> 00:10:27.480 I went there and I got you know, I got 178 00:10:27.519 --> 00:10:32.039 really lucky because I set up the interviews in advance 179 00:10:32.559 --> 00:10:36.600 and I got very friendly with Jim Chad, who is 180 00:10:36.600 --> 00:10:40.960 the detective on the case, and we just hit it 181 00:10:40.960 --> 00:10:45.679 off and he was kind enough to open up literally 182 00:10:45.759 --> 00:10:49.320 his life to me. I mean, you know, we had 183 00:10:49.360 --> 00:10:53.240 dinner together. He took me to his house. He was just, 184 00:10:53.279 --> 00:10:57.600 you know, he just showed so much hospitality that I'm 185 00:10:58.159 --> 00:11:01.240 which I certainly wasn't used to come from New York 186 00:11:02.320 --> 00:11:06.120 and I'm being honest, and and so he opened up 187 00:11:06.159 --> 00:11:08.879 to me. And I wrote this book. I mean, I 188 00:11:08.919 --> 00:11:11.200 wrote this article and then I just said, you know, 189 00:11:12.080 --> 00:11:15.120 this could be an interesting book, and I basically spun 190 00:11:15.159 --> 00:11:18.399 it off and I decided to do it as a book, 191 00:11:18.440 --> 00:11:21.000 and luckily it was bought by a publisher and I 192 00:11:21.080 --> 00:11:25.039 was able to do it. And that gave me the 193 00:11:25.159 --> 00:11:30.559 space to really develop all of the the the the 194 00:11:30.559 --> 00:11:36.120 themes and the characters in the book. And it, you know, 195 00:11:36.200 --> 00:11:38.639 it's what got me. What got me was the fact 196 00:11:38.679 --> 00:11:44.360 that I'd never heard of of of uh except for 197 00:11:44.480 --> 00:11:48.639 West Side Story, which is mentioned in the book. I 198 00:11:48.759 --> 00:11:55.919 wasn't familiar with gangs of Caucasian middle class kids, you know, 199 00:11:55.960 --> 00:11:57.960 I just you know, I didn't. I didn't get it. 200 00:11:58.080 --> 00:12:00.240 And and that's the thing that got me about the 201 00:12:00.240 --> 00:12:04.840 book was that the I five Carter, the the the 202 00:12:04.840 --> 00:12:07.320 the UH. You've got people going up and down that 203 00:12:07.440 --> 00:12:09.879 card on that coast, just like you have people on 204 00:12:09.919 --> 00:12:14.120 this coast coming up and down, uh what do you 205 00:12:14.200 --> 00:12:18.840 call it, you know, the interstate over here, And so 206 00:12:18.960 --> 00:12:24.440 that allowed for the influence of gangs, specifically from Los 207 00:12:24.440 --> 00:12:29.159 Angeles to come up there more in the sense almost 208 00:12:29.159 --> 00:12:33.919 the publicity. And then of course when Mary Thompson got involved, 209 00:12:34.320 --> 00:12:36.399 that was you know, she was able to sort of 210 00:12:36.440 --> 00:12:40.000 take from here and there and put all this stuff 211 00:12:40.000 --> 00:12:42.879 together and and she winds up as this, as this 212 00:12:44.679 --> 00:12:48.480 anti gang activist. And had it not been for this 213 00:12:48.679 --> 00:12:52.440 detective Jim Mchad, she would have gotten away with it. 214 00:12:53.639 --> 00:12:54.960 She would have gotten away with murder. 215 00:12:57.919 --> 00:13:03.759 Let's go back, Fred to a very dramatic scene in Cleveland, Ohio, 216 00:13:03.799 --> 00:13:09.399 in nineteen seventy six. Mary Thompson, but formerly Mary Fockler, 217 00:13:10.480 --> 00:13:15.320 is at a biker party. Now, let's talk about that scene. 218 00:13:15.399 --> 00:13:18.799 But also it really is indicative and tells a much 219 00:13:18.840 --> 00:13:22.879 bigger story. So tell that story about Mary Fokler. She's 220 00:13:22.919 --> 00:13:26.720 a pretty wild girl. She's willingly at a biker party 221 00:13:26.759 --> 00:13:31.919 with her dog and at a clubhouse, takes away friend. 222 00:13:32.360 --> 00:13:37.440 Yeah. Sure, she's at a biker party. And Mary had 223 00:13:37.440 --> 00:13:43.639 a thing where she wanted to be very popular, and 224 00:13:44.399 --> 00:13:46.720 she wanted to be on the Tonight Show with Johnny 225 00:13:46.720 --> 00:13:49.799 Carson who is doing it in those days, of course, 226 00:13:51.000 --> 00:13:54.879 and she wound up having sex with a number of 227 00:13:54.879 --> 00:13:59.440 these bikers. But then she turned around and said that 228 00:13:59.639 --> 00:14:06.600 she had been essentially gang raped by them. And what 229 00:14:06.799 --> 00:14:11.679 happens is the authorities then bring charges against these individuals 230 00:14:13.240 --> 00:14:18.960 and it isn't until the trial that it becomes clear 231 00:14:19.320 --> 00:14:23.960 that she's actually doing this stuff willingly and she wants 232 00:14:24.000 --> 00:14:31.240 the attention. And what gets so interesting is that her sister, Judy, 233 00:14:31.360 --> 00:14:37.600 testifies against her a trial and she says, my sister 234 00:14:37.799 --> 00:14:40.919 just wants to be She wants to be on the 235 00:14:41.000 --> 00:14:43.679 Johnny Carson Show, which is what people used to call 236 00:14:43.679 --> 00:14:45.440 it back in the day, though it was the Tonight 237 00:14:45.480 --> 00:14:48.720 Show starring Johnny Carson, just like it's the Tonight Show 238 00:14:48.799 --> 00:14:53.200 starring Jimmy Fallon, etc. Etc. Point being Mary was just 239 00:14:53.279 --> 00:15:01.519 into the attention, and that is indicative of her personality 240 00:15:01.639 --> 00:15:05.759 of what she wanted out of life, you know. And 241 00:15:05.879 --> 00:15:09.279 I guess there are certain people who want to get 242 00:15:09.360 --> 00:15:12.399 fame in any way, shape or form, and they don't 243 00:15:12.480 --> 00:15:15.879 care who they're going to step over or whatever. And 244 00:15:15.919 --> 00:15:18.759 I don't want people to misunderstand what I'm saying here, 245 00:15:19.120 --> 00:15:27.360 which is this, of course, women are abused by men, 246 00:15:28.399 --> 00:15:32.840 and there have been many instances of gang rape and 247 00:15:33.759 --> 00:15:38.120 where the men are not prosecuted or not convicted. This 248 00:15:37.720 --> 00:15:42.200 is one tenth of one percent of where somebody of 249 00:15:42.240 --> 00:15:45.799 a woman making it up and she did it for 250 00:15:45.840 --> 00:15:49.279 her own reasons, but it doesn't come together dan until 251 00:15:49.399 --> 00:15:53.399 much much later when she winds up out in the 252 00:15:53.440 --> 00:15:58.320 Pacific Northwest, and then everybody start the cops start putting 253 00:15:58.320 --> 00:16:02.000 it together and they realize what kind of an individual 254 00:16:02.720 --> 00:16:03.440 they're dealing with. 255 00:16:05.600 --> 00:16:09.600 Yes, you include this to show the character of Mary 256 00:16:09.679 --> 00:16:13.399 Fowkler and also the show that with this, it's an 257 00:16:13.440 --> 00:16:15.759 amazing story. She's having sex with all these bikers and 258 00:16:15.799 --> 00:16:17.639 her dog gets in a fight with one of the 259 00:16:17.639 --> 00:16:21.080 biker dogs in the clubhouse, so she tries to break 260 00:16:21.120 --> 00:16:23.440 up the fight of the dogs and then ends up 261 00:16:23.440 --> 00:16:26.360 half naked outside and then when she is cops do 262 00:16:26.480 --> 00:16:28.799 come and he says, oh, well, I was raped, So 263 00:16:28.960 --> 00:16:32.879 thirty two guys question five or id'd she's got to 264 00:16:32.960 --> 00:16:36.039 leave town, So she leaves town. Of course, he's got 265 00:16:36.080 --> 00:16:38.519 to reinvent herself if she knows what she's gonna say 266 00:16:38.519 --> 00:16:43.000 about herself, right, But there is quite a report based 267 00:16:43.039 --> 00:16:46.799 on this allegation, and like you say that they lose 268 00:16:46.840 --> 00:16:51.480 the case. So there's a good report that later Jim 269 00:16:51.559 --> 00:16:56.080 Mashad lead reads and is again very indicative of the 270 00:16:56.240 --> 00:16:58.840 character of the woman. So Jim Mashad read that with 271 00:16:58.919 --> 00:17:02.759 great interest, much much later. So now, like you say, 272 00:17:02.799 --> 00:17:08.519 she's ruading up to Eugene, Oregon and reinvented herself. Tell 273 00:17:08.599 --> 00:17:12.400 us how she becomes this anti gang activist and tell 274 00:17:12.440 --> 00:17:14.279 us about her son Bo. 275 00:17:15.000 --> 00:17:18.400 Well, what happens is she winds up in another town 276 00:17:18.440 --> 00:17:22.039 in Oregon at first, and she winds up in this 277 00:17:22.119 --> 00:17:26.200 other town where she becomes a snitch, a police informer, 278 00:17:26.839 --> 00:17:31.039 though she lifts on her resume that she's a police investigator, 279 00:17:32.480 --> 00:17:35.920 and she wind and then she winds up going from 280 00:17:35.960 --> 00:17:39.039 that town and she's she's going through different guys, you know, 281 00:17:39.359 --> 00:17:42.279 And now she's she's got a different guy, and she 282 00:17:42.480 --> 00:17:47.400 moves to Eugene and she has her son Bo and 283 00:17:48.799 --> 00:17:55.079 she then what happens is Bo winds up getting interested 284 00:17:55.160 --> 00:18:00.759 in gangs and Mary at this point Hern is now 285 00:18:00.880 --> 00:18:09.960 Mary Thompson. She winds up as somebody who starts educating 286 00:18:10.000 --> 00:18:14.400 herself on gangs, and she then promotes herself to the 287 00:18:14.480 --> 00:18:20.279 media as an anti gang activist, and the local newspapers 288 00:18:20.319 --> 00:18:25.119 begin to call her gang Mom because she becomes like 289 00:18:25.200 --> 00:18:29.039 a mom to these individuals, the kids that are and 290 00:18:29.119 --> 00:18:33.240 we're talking about white, lower middle class, middle class kids, 291 00:18:34.000 --> 00:18:38.920 boys and girls who aspire to the gang lifestyle. And 292 00:18:39.319 --> 00:18:45.400 she winds up doing various interviews and so forth with 293 00:18:45.559 --> 00:18:49.440 the media and as a result, it mushrooms. And the 294 00:18:49.480 --> 00:18:53.440 next thing you know, she gets in tight with a 295 00:18:53.480 --> 00:18:58.440 couple of dudes at the Eugene Police Department and she's 296 00:18:58.440 --> 00:19:01.759 giving like anti gangs nars in schools and so forth. 297 00:19:02.960 --> 00:19:08.359 And while this is happening, her son is going in 298 00:19:08.599 --> 00:19:12.000 and out of trouble. But at the same time, she 299 00:19:12.160 --> 00:19:16.359 is forming very strong I would say, very strong roots 300 00:19:16.400 --> 00:19:19.680 within the community, so that nobody would suspect that, you know, 301 00:19:19.920 --> 00:19:24.160 she's a bad guy or bad girl. Nobody would suspect that. 302 00:19:25.880 --> 00:19:28.279 But she makes a couple of mistakes along the way 303 00:19:28.319 --> 00:19:29.599 that come back and haunt her. 304 00:19:29.680 --> 00:19:32.799 How does she have a husband that's oblivious? I mean 305 00:19:32.839 --> 00:19:35.920 he's much older, but how can he be that oblivious? 306 00:19:36.279 --> 00:19:38.480 Does she work around his schedule? How does that work? 307 00:19:39.960 --> 00:19:44.880 Well? The way that it works is that the husband 308 00:19:46.200 --> 00:19:49.319 this was a situation where there were there were different 309 00:19:49.440 --> 00:19:57.039 men involved, and she at that point early on as 310 00:19:57.039 --> 00:20:02.640 the an anti gang activist, what she is showing to 311 00:20:02.720 --> 00:20:12.799 the world is her her her credential as somebody who's 312 00:20:12.839 --> 00:20:16.640 against this sort of thing, and she just pulls the 313 00:20:16.680 --> 00:20:20.759 wool over her husband's eyes and eventually she splits up 314 00:20:20.799 --> 00:20:23.519 with the dude. So it isn't like he's there all 315 00:20:23.559 --> 00:20:25.680 the time, you know what I mean. It's not like 316 00:20:25.799 --> 00:20:28.359 one of those It's not like, you know, like Beacon 317 00:20:28.400 --> 00:20:31.880 of Death, where you know, this guy's a serial killer 318 00:20:31.920 --> 00:20:37.160 and his wife is unaware of it, but it's you know, 319 00:20:37.200 --> 00:20:39.559 because she's sleeping with him all the time. It's that's 320 00:20:39.640 --> 00:20:45.000 not the case because when she winds up becoming really 321 00:20:45.200 --> 00:20:49.720 popular and when she is actually doing some other things 322 00:20:49.759 --> 00:20:52.920 that we'll get to by that time, she's not involved 323 00:20:53.680 --> 00:20:58.839 with with any man in particular. So it isn't like 324 00:20:59.559 --> 00:21:02.400 there was a major tip off her something like that. 325 00:21:02.519 --> 00:21:06.319 Plus an important aspect here is that she is a 326 00:21:06.440 --> 00:21:09.599 con woman of the first order. She's the best eye 327 00:21:09.640 --> 00:21:14.599 he has ever seen, best I've ever seen. And at 328 00:21:14.599 --> 00:21:19.000 the same time she has a very very close relationship 329 00:21:19.640 --> 00:21:25.039 with her son. But she doesn't provide the kind of 330 00:21:25.759 --> 00:21:32.359 role model that you know that we hope parents would. 331 00:21:33.240 --> 00:21:36.079 It's the other way around. She's not teaching this kid 332 00:21:36.759 --> 00:21:44.400 proper values. It's it's it's just completely the opposite, and 333 00:21:44.559 --> 00:21:48.559 this will eventually lead to a lot of grief for 334 00:21:48.759 --> 00:21:49.599 a lot of people. 335 00:21:52.680 --> 00:21:55.920 Now you talk about Mary being a consummate con woman, 336 00:21:57.079 --> 00:22:02.079 and there's evidence of that. She talks about again reinvents herself. 337 00:22:02.160 --> 00:22:05.240 So she comes up with this background about how she 338 00:22:05.359 --> 00:22:07.519 was involved in the Crips, which is a black gang, 339 00:22:07.559 --> 00:22:10.920 and you explain that the seventy four Hoover Crips she forms. 340 00:22:11.279 --> 00:22:13.720 So tell us about the entire story of the background 341 00:22:13.759 --> 00:22:18.720 that she's created it that she gives to these unsuspecting kids. 342 00:22:19.559 --> 00:22:24.319 Okay, what happens is she claims that she has some 343 00:22:27.119 --> 00:22:32.960 background with this famous gang from Los Angeles. And you know, 344 00:22:33.000 --> 00:22:35.480 it's funny. As I was reading this again, I was 345 00:22:35.519 --> 00:22:38.400 reminded that I used to live right near Hoover in 346 00:22:38.440 --> 00:22:42.440 Los Angeles when I went to USC's film school, and 347 00:22:43.000 --> 00:22:45.680 it's a very famous gang. And she claims that she 348 00:22:47.039 --> 00:22:52.160 had a part in the gang and that she knows 349 00:22:52.200 --> 00:22:57.039 a lot about the gang. And what she's doing is 350 00:22:57.079 --> 00:23:03.359 she's conning these kids, teenagers into believing that she is 351 00:23:03.400 --> 00:23:09.759 involved with this African American gang. Duh, you know, I mean, 352 00:23:09.799 --> 00:23:11.720 you know, if you base these are these are these 353 00:23:11.720 --> 00:23:13.640 are kids, you could have sold them the Brooklyn Bridge 354 00:23:13.680 --> 00:23:18.880 for five bucks. They were pretty damned. But also they 355 00:23:18.880 --> 00:23:21.799 were very ignorant and and they you know, they were 356 00:23:21.880 --> 00:23:25.440 very sheltered in many ways and is and but but 357 00:23:26.359 --> 00:23:31.759 every kid wants to belong, every kid wants to be 358 00:23:31.880 --> 00:23:37.200 a part of something, especially when they've had problems. So 359 00:23:37.279 --> 00:23:42.599 she was smart enough to prey on kids who've had 360 00:23:42.880 --> 00:23:48.599 problems and who she could manipulate to do her will. 361 00:23:49.759 --> 00:23:53.519 And she not only does that with kids that aren't 362 00:23:53.559 --> 00:23:56.559 related to her, she does it with both Flynn, who's 363 00:23:57.160 --> 00:24:00.559 who's her son? And so she can this is then 364 00:24:00.680 --> 00:24:03.960 that's and and what she basically does is she's a 365 00:24:04.079 --> 00:24:08.640 very good study band. She studies gang culture. She knows 366 00:24:08.680 --> 00:24:15.359 all about gang colors, the gang initiation and so forth 367 00:24:15.400 --> 00:24:20.519 and so on, and so she implements this this system 368 00:24:21.200 --> 00:24:28.119 of acceptance in this community. And she's doing this while 369 00:24:28.680 --> 00:24:32.160 she you know, at night, while by day. And I 370 00:24:32.160 --> 00:24:34.240 don't think we're giving anything away here because it says 371 00:24:34.279 --> 00:24:37.559 it on the cover. Uh, she's she's she's acting as 372 00:24:37.559 --> 00:24:40.400 a gang activist. So you've got that, You've got two 373 00:24:40.480 --> 00:24:44.039 things going on. You've got the con woman who is 374 00:24:44.599 --> 00:24:48.680 telling the public and the cops that she's an anti 375 00:24:48.680 --> 00:24:52.759 gangy activist, as well as on idea the parents, parents 376 00:24:52.799 --> 00:24:56.759 of these kids into she you know, into her confidence game. 377 00:24:57.720 --> 00:24:59.920 And then at night she's got these kids that are 378 00:25:00.079 --> 00:25:04.440 showing up at her house and you know, they think, 379 00:25:04.519 --> 00:25:07.839 like she's she's she's it, man, you know, she's you know, 380 00:25:07.960 --> 00:25:11.680 she's like, you know, I guess I just remembered back 381 00:25:11.720 --> 00:25:15.799 in the thirties, there was a woman who ran a gang. 382 00:25:15.839 --> 00:25:19.599 Her name was mob Barker, and she was a very 383 00:25:19.680 --> 00:25:26.400 famous outlaw. And that's exactly how I would describe Mary Thompson. 384 00:25:26.519 --> 00:25:28.880 She's an outlaw. 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