Speaker 1: You're listening to Later with Moe Kelly on demand from
Speaker 1: KFI AM six forty.
Speaker 2: Later with mo Kelly. We're live on YouTube, Instagram, and
Speaker 2: the iHeartRadio app. Let's get to it, Jackie Ray, good
Speaker 2: to see you this evening.
Speaker 3: Great to see you.
Speaker 2: Zion Williamson. You may know him as a star when
Speaker 2: he's on the court. He's often injured, the star with
Speaker 2: the New Orleans Pelicans. You may know of him when
Speaker 2: he was a star at Duke University. But he also
Speaker 2: has a house here in Los Angeles, and he is
Speaker 2: in the news because a woman claiming to be one
Speaker 2: of Zion Williamson's exes has filed a lawsuit lawsuit I
Speaker 2: didn't say criminal charges lawsuit against the NBA star, alleging
Speaker 2: he raped, kidnapped, and terrorized her on multiple occasions throughout
Speaker 2: their years long relationship. In fact, according to the suit,
Speaker 2: one of the violent incidents took place on September twenty third,
Speaker 2: twenty twenty, well within the statute of limitations. I'm putting
Speaker 2: that out there for a reason. And this was after
Speaker 2: the woman had gone on to Williamson's Beverly Hills home.
Speaker 4: The accuser says she told Williamson.
Speaker 2: She was tired of wanted to go to sleep, but
Speaker 2: he called her stuck up some other expletives, and told
Speaker 2: her allegedly that she could not go to sleep without
Speaker 2: having sex with him. Williamson then allegedly pinned her down
Speaker 2: on the bed and it goes on from there. Afterward,
Speaker 2: there were other incidents which were alleged. My first question
Speaker 2: to you is should I take anything from the fact
Speaker 2: that this is a lawsuit, not actual criminal allegations as
Speaker 2: far as I know, which were reported to the police.
Speaker 5: Yes, I always, and I know sometimes especially women, they
Speaker 5: get mad when I say that. But as a woman,
Speaker 5: for me, anytime a woman files a lawsuit instead of
Speaker 5: seeking criminal charges, me seeking criminal charges is trying to
Speaker 5: make sure there are severe consequences on this person and
Speaker 5: that they don't do it to other women. If I'm
Speaker 5: filing a lawsuit, the message, especially when you're talking about
Speaker 5: an aggressor, Let's say that we fully believe all of
Speaker 5: these allegations and everything she's saying happened happened exactly the
Speaker 5: way that it did. The lawsuit will probably eventually be settled.
Speaker 5: And now the message is to Zion if he did
Speaker 5: this and any other person who has done this is
Speaker 5: I can pay my way out of this. The message
Speaker 5: isn't don't do it again, it's I can pay my
Speaker 5: way out.
Speaker 2: What about a situation like Cassie and I will talk
Speaker 2: about what Bill Maher had to say about Cassie and
Speaker 2: women filing lawsuits as part of my final thought to
Speaker 2: preview that. But in that specific instance, you had someone
Speaker 2: who filed a lawsuit because the statue libertations had expired
Speaker 2: and her only recourse was to do so because of
Speaker 2: the New York Adult Survivors Act, there wasn't a window
Speaker 2: opportunity for her to file criminal charges.
Speaker 4: But but because of her lawsuit.
Speaker 2: Law enforcement did follow up and subsequently filed criminal charges
Speaker 2: because what was found in a lawsuit?
Speaker 4: What about that possibility?
Speaker 5: But that wasn't the intent, And so for me, the
Speaker 5: intent the intent is always it means more than the outcome.
Speaker 5: Her intent was to have financial repercussions for what she
Speaker 5: went through. And I'm not saying she didn't deserve some
Speaker 5: financial repercussions for what she went through. I'm saying that
Speaker 5: as a woman, if I can prevent another woman from
Speaker 5: enduring that, that's going to be my goal.
Speaker 3: Money is not.
Speaker 2: Charger fifty five in our YouTube chat said a parenthetical,
Speaker 2: same thing happened to Trevor Bauer and Kobe Bryant. That
Speaker 2: is incorrect because both Trevor Bauer and Kobe Bryant faced
Speaker 2: criminal charges.
Speaker 3: Correct. Correct.
Speaker 5: And that's the thing because again, once you reach a
Speaker 5: certain status, male or female, there is a level of
Speaker 5: entitlement that I can just behave this way because what
Speaker 5: I'm just gonna throw some money at it, and normally
Speaker 5: people do go away.
Speaker 3: So what's the endgame?
Speaker 5: That's always my question when I see stuff like this,
Speaker 5: and when you're talking about twenty eighteen, twenty twenty, twenty
Speaker 5: twenty two, there's another problem. Again, I'm not saying that
Speaker 5: this didn't happen to this woman, but what I'm saying
Speaker 5: is now you've put yourself in a situation where it's
Speaker 5: difficult for people to believe you because now you've gone
Speaker 5: all this time and you've said nothing, and now you're
Speaker 5: not doing criminal charges, you're doing a lawsuit that could
Speaker 5: potentially get you financial gain. Same thing happened with Cassie
Speaker 5: when she was on the stand. She said, you know,
Speaker 5: I didn't say anything because he might have replaced me,
Speaker 5: there's a level of lifestyle that she was getting used to.
Speaker 3: That's a problem. I interviewed.
Speaker 5: If you go way back in the Jackie Ray Show days,
Speaker 5: I interviewed a woman named Tasha Biltmore. She was doing
Speaker 5: this whole play about her domestic violence experience, and I
Speaker 5: had to ask her the question. I says, you know,
Speaker 5: I know this is going to be a difficult question,
Speaker 5: but I'm listening to you talk about years and years
Speaker 5: of abuse and I have to ask, what the hell
Speaker 5: were you thinking? And she even said, in that situation,
Speaker 5: I knew if I left that my whole life would
Speaker 5: change as far as the lifestyle that I was accustomed to.
Speaker 5: It's difficult for me to really sympathize with you if
Speaker 5: you're seeking money, if lifestyle is a consider ration exactly,
Speaker 5: and so that's it's difficult for me to really say, Okay, yeah,
Speaker 5: you know this is horrible. If you're staying because you
Speaker 5: don't you don't want the money to go away, then
Speaker 5: that's the price.
Speaker 2: I want to believe, and maybe I'm not, depending on
Speaker 2: who is listening right now, I want to believe I'm
Speaker 2: fair in this regard. I would like to be the
Speaker 2: person who's I'm not going to be the person who says,
Speaker 2: believe all women.
Speaker 4: I'm not right.
Speaker 3: I'm not because people lie people right.
Speaker 2: I am going to be a person to say, let's
Speaker 2: hear the story and judge it on its merits. I
Speaker 2: don't know enough about the evidence in this. I do
Speaker 2: know the difference between a civil lawsuit and criminal charges
Speaker 2: as far as the standard a proof. I do know
Speaker 2: that in a civil lawsuit, all you need is the
Speaker 2: propounderance of evidence, which is fifty one percent, which is
Speaker 2: a much lower standard. In other words, you have a
Speaker 2: greater likelihood of being successful financially as opposed to in
Speaker 2: a criminal child where you need beyond reasonable doubt.
Speaker 5: Right, But then that's in a lawsuit like this. In
Speaker 5: the civil lawsuit, then it becomes the believability because unless
Speaker 5: she's recorded this, unless there were video surveillance in the
Speaker 5: house that showed this, what is the proof is gone now?
Speaker 5: And so now it's gonna be do you believe her
Speaker 5: in a court or do you believe zion? And that
Speaker 5: a lot of times comes down to likability, and that.
Speaker 2: Is the large discussion for everyone to wrestle with. Some
Speaker 2: people in the chatter say I don't know who Zion
Speaker 2: Williamson is. Well that's really neither here nor there. If
Speaker 2: you follow NBA basketball closely, you know who he is.
Speaker 2: But the point is there is something to extract as
Speaker 2: far as this is not the first and won't.
Speaker 4: Be the last.
Speaker 2: Right, how do we look at the idea of a
Speaker 2: woman suing and not pursuing criminal charges within the statute
Speaker 2: of limitations?
Speaker 5: So I'm gonna give some grace because I understand that
Speaker 5: if this were to happen to me, who knows how
Speaker 5: long it would take me to mentally be okay to
Speaker 5: even talk about this publicly. So that's first and foremost.
Speaker 5: You don't know how people respond to grief and trauma,
Speaker 5: So I'm definitely gonna give grace. I would like to
Speaker 5: think it wouldn't take from twenty eighteen to twenty twenty five,
Speaker 5: because again, at that point, I lose my credibility. So
Speaker 5: if my intent is to stop this from happening to
Speaker 5: another woman, it can't be just about me. It has
Speaker 5: to be about stopping this abuser who by if what
Speaker 5: she's saying is true, this man feels entitled to do this.
Speaker 2: And probably she would not be the only one that
Speaker 2: it's happened to exactly if we take.
Speaker 3: Her at her word exactly.
Speaker 5: So what I would say to any woman prayer forllly
Speaker 5: this never happens to you.
Speaker 3: But if it does happen.
Speaker 5: To you, you, as a woman should embrace the responsibility
Speaker 5: of making sure another woman does not have to go
Speaker 5: through that if you can have anything to do with that.
Speaker 4: It's Later with mo Kelly.
Speaker 2: Jackie Ray joins me in studio as we go beyond
Speaker 2: the Boxwell, when we come back, we have to talk
Speaker 2: about the trans athlete who won two girls air quotes
Speaker 2: and I mean that air quotes track and field events
Speaker 2: at the California State CIF Finals. That's next KFI AM
Speaker 2: six forty. We're live on YouTube, Instagram, and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 1: You're listening to Later with mo Kelly on demand from
Speaker 1: KFI AM six forty.
Speaker 2: It's Later with mo Kelly Live on YouTube, Instagram, andy
Speaker 2: I Heartradio App. As we continue to go beyond the
Speaker 2: box score with Jackie Ray. A huge subject and story
Speaker 2: here in California. The trans athlete who won two girls
Speaker 2: track and field events at California High School Track and
Speaker 2: Field Championships over the weekend took home gold in the
Speaker 2: girl's high jump and the triple jump tremendous controversy. We
Speaker 2: know that the Trump administration is investigating whether California state
Speaker 2: law is in violation of Title nine federal law and
Speaker 2: its provisions for girls slash women's athletics on.
Speaker 4: A scholastic level.
Speaker 2: Let me just say this because I always feel like
Speaker 2: I have to do this as a precursor. This is
Speaker 2: not against the trans community, and I'm not going to
Speaker 2: disrespect anyone in the community, but when it comes to
Speaker 2: trans children, and they are children, and if they want
Speaker 2: to perform in athletics or compete in athletics, sometimes you
Speaker 2: have to tell your child no right and sometimes you
Speaker 2: have to do it because you have to teach the
Speaker 2: child that the world is not going to confirm to.
Speaker 4: Your individual decisions.
Speaker 2: Title nine in girls sports is predicated not only on
Speaker 2: fair competition, but a biological separation. Not a gender expression separation,
Speaker 2: but a biological one.
Speaker 4: Where do you come out on this, Jackie Ray.
Speaker 5: I think it's quite disappointing that this is even a thing.
Speaker 5: I think that any true athlete, a true competitor, someone
Speaker 5: who wants to go out there and win, wants to
Speaker 5: win against the best and if you are a biological male,
Speaker 5: there's just no way you can say that you are
Speaker 5: competing against your equal counterparts. You can't say that now,
Speaker 5: you can't say that just because you've been taking these hormones.
Speaker 5: You'll never be able to say that because you will
Speaker 5: never be a biological woman. So for in the spirit
Speaker 5: of competition, every athlete I know wants to compete against
Speaker 5: the best, even if they know they might not win
Speaker 5: against the best. It's a level of competition and being
Speaker 5: able to get over and say, hey, I won that
Speaker 5: through my pure grit and strength. And so it's disappointing
Speaker 5: to me that so many transgender athletes even want to
Speaker 5: participate in women's sports, because however you identify is irrelevant
Speaker 5: to me. It's a biological women's sports. And people forget
Speaker 5: how hard we had to fight talk about Title nine,
Speaker 5: Title nine. People forget all about Title nine. When I
Speaker 5: was coming up, there wasn't a WNBA until there was
Speaker 5: a WNBA, and part of.
Speaker 4: Don't forget the ABL which preceded.
Speaker 5: The NBA, right, But it was a fight to say, hey,
Speaker 5: we want to play sports. We want to play the
Speaker 5: same sports as men. There was a whole like if
Speaker 5: you read the history. And I know a lot of
Speaker 5: people don't read these days, but if you read, you
Speaker 5: read the history, there was a whole men did this
Speaker 5: whole campaign. When women were saying we want our own sports,
Speaker 5: men would say, oh, there's not enough women who would
Speaker 5: actually want to play sports.
Speaker 4: That's right.
Speaker 5: We had to fight against the narrative. We had to
Speaker 5: fight against men. We had to fight and just make
Speaker 5: our own leagues just to be relevant. And then even
Speaker 5: when you're talking about the WNBA right now, without even looking,
Speaker 5: we could go back on some of our podcasts and
Speaker 5: I would bet my last dollar that there's men in
Speaker 5: there that are saying the WNBA isn't as good as
Speaker 5: the NBA, and people are not watching it because of this.
Speaker 5: That and the third. The fight for women's sports is
Speaker 5: never going to end. So for a biological man to
Speaker 5: want to jump into that ring is offensive. It's just
Speaker 5: flat out offensive.
Speaker 4: Well it's offensive.
Speaker 2: It is also unfair, and I think it demeans and
Speaker 2: diminishes the fight and the whole purpose of having. When
Speaker 2: I say women's sports that includes girl sports, I hate
Speaker 2: to say the same thing over and over again, but
Speaker 2: my argument hasn't changed. This is an expression of gender.
Speaker 2: It's not a change of your actual sex, your born sex,
Speaker 2: how you choose to express it, from makeup, hair clothes,
Speaker 2: that's gender, right, and title nine is not about gender.
Speaker 5: It's about sex exactly, exactly. And I just think I'm
Speaker 5: a little disappointed. I kind of wish that the parents,
Speaker 5: and this is something that I would encourage parents to
Speaker 5: do when instead of taking to social media and being
Speaker 5: upset about this, which if you're a parent, you have
Speaker 5: every right to be upset, snatch your kid out. If
Speaker 5: all the parents that were competing against this transgender person said,
Speaker 5: you know what, if this is the game you want
Speaker 5: to play, we're not gonna play it full stop. This
Speaker 5: is the thing, and people were like, oh, that's not
Speaker 5: It's one hundred percent fair because at the end of
Speaker 5: the day, I'm not competing against my equal and I'm
Speaker 5: not going to let you put my child in a
Speaker 5: situation where now they have to think that maybe they
Speaker 5: didn't train hard enough, maybe they're less than for any
Speaker 5: other reason, when there is a biological reason that they
Speaker 5: might not have won in that particular situation.
Speaker 2: That's the whole point of having the girl's hide jump
Speaker 2: or the girls tackle jump.
Speaker 5: That is the whole point.
Speaker 2: Sometimes and this is broader than just sports. Sometimes you
Speaker 2: have to tell your child no. And although you can
Speaker 2: be supportive of the decision for their choice as far
Speaker 2: as how they want to express themselselves as far as
Speaker 2: gender to the world, it doesn't mean that they are
Speaker 2: also entitled And I know that's maybe a loaded word,
Speaker 2: but it might be the appropriate word. That they're entitled
Speaker 2: to then have access to every single space because of
Speaker 2: an individual decision of expression of gender.
Speaker 5: Right, you, your personal choices in life do not affect
Speaker 5: the actual world. That's your little bubble in the world.
Speaker 5: How you choose, how you choose to live, like if
Speaker 5: you if you want to if you're a biological man
Speaker 5: and you want to live as a woman, that is
Speaker 5: your bubble. That is your world you can but out
Speaker 5: in the real world, there's a certain set of rules
Speaker 5: that we have to conform to if we want a
Speaker 5: sense of fairness in this world, and this this entitlement,
Speaker 5: if you will to not have to conform to that
Speaker 5: is not only frustrating, but you're making enemies we're in
Speaker 5: don't need to be made. And I've said this time
Speaker 5: and time again. I know the transgender community only makes
Speaker 5: up one percent of the population. But I've always said
Speaker 5: in boxing, we have heavyweight, lightweight, featherweight.
Speaker 3: We have all reasons for a reason. There's a reason
Speaker 3: why we have so many divisions.
Speaker 5: There's a reason why we don't let elementary school kids
Speaker 5: play with middle school kids, and why we don't let
Speaker 5: middle school kids play with high school kids.
Speaker 3: We have all these different divisions for a reason.
Speaker 2: Make yours not even middle school kids against high school kids.
Speaker 4: We do it by year and age.
Speaker 2: You know, we have eight year olds, let's say eight
Speaker 2: nine playing They don't play against nine and ten.
Speaker 5: Year olds, right, And we also have nine and ten
Speaker 5: year olds who look like they're thirteen and fourteen, who
Speaker 5: can't play with nine and ten year olds.
Speaker 2: Say, now, I got to argue with someone about this,
Speaker 2: and they didn't know that I had a history as officially.
Speaker 4: So well, what about when you have boys.
Speaker 2: And girls play on the same team when they're like
Speaker 2: nine and ten years old pre pubescent? I said, because
Speaker 2: they're pre pubescent on the other side of puberty. Then
Speaker 2: you have the biological differences. You have testosterone and estrogen
Speaker 2: playing an outsize impact on what these athletes will be.
Speaker 2: That's why you don't have the sixteen year old girl.
Speaker 2: I should say the sixteen year old boy playing in
Speaker 2: the girls league.
Speaker 5: Come on, I mean, it's so basic as far as
Speaker 5: your intelligent level, how it has to be the level
Speaker 5: you have to be. It's not a high IQ argument.
Speaker 2: No, And I reject the arguments like well it's only
Speaker 2: one athlete. It's look, rules are not about the exception.
Speaker 2: Rules are about for everyone to follow, not everyone except someone.
Speaker 2: And I think it's easier to delineate this because it's sports,
Speaker 2: because sports are predicated on fair play. Sports are predicated
Speaker 2: on even level of competition, and everybody follows the same rules,
Speaker 2: the same rules. Yes, I always say get the easy ones, right.
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, this is not being against trans people. Let
Speaker 2: me be clear, it's not against trans people. If you
Speaker 2: want to express yourself in a certain way, if you
Speaker 2: want to live your life in a certain way, so
Speaker 2: be it.
Speaker 4: How you dress, how you talk, how you interact.
Speaker 2: But that does not grant you the right to then
Speaker 2: also expect to be it's not even welcome. It's just
Speaker 2: we're talking about access into things which are predicated on
Speaker 2: biological difference or and you said this before, so I'm
Speaker 2: gonna give this back to you. If you're not going
Speaker 2: to do away with biological differences, then this is the
Speaker 2: way it has to be. Or you can do away
Speaker 2: with biological differences and everyone just plays yeah, and that's
Speaker 2: never gonna happen.
Speaker 5: And hello, why it's never gonna happen because there's no
Speaker 5: woman in the WNBA that can take a charge from
Speaker 5: Lebron James.
Speaker 4: You know what I'm saying, Make it all, but that'll
Speaker 4: be the last game she played.
Speaker 5: Right, forty year old Lebron James right now against Angel Wilson,
Speaker 5: the best player, or Nafisa Collier, the best players in
Speaker 5: the w I'm telling you right now, that is a
Speaker 5: concussion that's going to take months to recover from.
Speaker 3: It is not the same.
Speaker 5: And I think the problem in our society specifically is
Speaker 5: we have difficulties saying your difference is okay, and instead
Speaker 5: we want to say we're all this and no and
Speaker 5: damn well, we're not the melting pot. Like we all
Speaker 5: find differences in different ways, We're not a melting pot,
Speaker 5: and that differences are okay, embrace them.
Speaker 3: Women have fought very, very hard for this position.
Speaker 5: I would implore the trends community to come to us
Speaker 5: and ask us how we can help you fight for
Speaker 5: your space in sports, but don't take ours.
Speaker 4: Jackie Ray, good to see it.
Speaker 1: You're listening to Later with Moe Kelly on demand from
Speaker 1: KFI AM six forty