WEBVTT

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<v Speaker 1>You're listening to Later with Moe Kelly on demand from

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<v Speaker 1>KFI AM six forty.

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<v Speaker 2>Later with mo Kelly. We're live on YouTube, Instagram, and

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<v Speaker 2>the iHeartRadio app. Let's get to it, Jackie Ray, good

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<v Speaker 2>to see you this evening.

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<v Speaker 3>Great to see you.

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<v Speaker 2>Zion Williamson. You may know him as a star when

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<v Speaker 2>he's on the court. He's often injured, the star with

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<v Speaker 2>the New Orleans Pelicans. You may know of him when

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<v Speaker 2>he was a star at Duke University. But he also

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<v Speaker 2>has a house here in Los Angeles, and he is

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<v Speaker 2>in the news because a woman claiming to be one

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<v Speaker 2>of Zion Williamson's exes has filed a lawsuit lawsuit I

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<v Speaker 2>didn't say criminal charges lawsuit against the NBA star, alleging

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<v Speaker 2>he raped, kidnapped, and terrorized her on multiple occasions throughout

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<v Speaker 2>their years long relationship. In fact, according to the suit,

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<v Speaker 2>one of the violent incidents took place on September twenty third,

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<v Speaker 2>twenty twenty, well within the statute of limitations. I'm putting

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<v Speaker 2>that out there for a reason. And this was after

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<v Speaker 2>the woman had gone on to Williamson's Beverly Hills home.

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<v Speaker 4>The accuser says she told Williamson.

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<v Speaker 2>She was tired of wanted to go to sleep, but

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<v Speaker 2>he called her stuck up some other expletives, and told

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<v Speaker 2>her allegedly that she could not go to sleep without

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<v Speaker 2>having sex with him. Williamson then allegedly pinned her down

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<v Speaker 2>on the bed and it goes on from there. Afterward,

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<v Speaker 2>there were other incidents which were alleged. My first question

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<v Speaker 2>to you is should I take anything from the fact

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<v Speaker 2>that this is a lawsuit, not actual criminal allegations as

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<v Speaker 2>far as I know, which were reported to the police.

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<v Speaker 5>Yes, I always, and I know sometimes especially women, they

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<v Speaker 5>get mad when I say that. But as a woman,

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<v Speaker 5>for me, anytime a woman files a lawsuit instead of

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<v Speaker 5>seeking criminal charges, me seeking criminal charges is trying to

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<v Speaker 5>make sure there are severe consequences on this person and

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<v Speaker 5>that they don't do it to other women. If I'm

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<v Speaker 5>filing a lawsuit, the message, especially when you're talking about

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<v Speaker 5>an aggressor, Let's say that we fully believe all of

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<v Speaker 5>these allegations and everything she's saying happened happened exactly the

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<v Speaker 5>way that it did. The lawsuit will probably eventually be settled.

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<v Speaker 5>And now the message is to Zion if he did

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<v Speaker 5>this and any other person who has done this is

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<v Speaker 5>I can pay my way out of this. The message

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<v Speaker 5>isn't don't do it again, it's I can pay my

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<v Speaker 5>way out.

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<v Speaker 2>What about a situation like Cassie and I will talk

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<v Speaker 2>about what Bill Maher had to say about Cassie and

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<v Speaker 2>women filing lawsuits as part of my final thought to

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<v Speaker 2>preview that. But in that specific instance, you had someone

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<v Speaker 2>who filed a lawsuit because the statue libertations had expired

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<v Speaker 2>and her only recourse was to do so because of

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<v Speaker 2>the New York Adult Survivors Act, there wasn't a window

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<v Speaker 2>opportunity for her to file criminal charges.

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<v Speaker 4>But but because of her lawsuit.

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<v Speaker 2>Law enforcement did follow up and subsequently filed criminal charges

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<v Speaker 2>because what was found in a lawsuit?

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<v Speaker 4>What about that possibility?

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<v Speaker 5>But that wasn't the intent, And so for me, the

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<v Speaker 5>intent the intent is always it means more than the outcome.

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<v Speaker 5>Her intent was to have financial repercussions for what she

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<v Speaker 5>went through. And I'm not saying she didn't deserve some

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<v Speaker 5>financial repercussions for what she went through. I'm saying that

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<v Speaker 5>as a woman, if I can prevent another woman from

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<v Speaker 5>enduring that, that's going to be my goal.

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<v Speaker 3>Money is not.

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<v Speaker 2>Charger fifty five in our YouTube chat said a parenthetical,

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<v Speaker 2>same thing happened to Trevor Bauer and Kobe Bryant. That

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<v Speaker 2>is incorrect because both Trevor Bauer and Kobe Bryant faced

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<v Speaker 2>criminal charges.

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<v Speaker 3>Correct. Correct.

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<v Speaker 5>And that's the thing because again, once you reach a

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<v Speaker 5>certain status, male or female, there is a level of

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<v Speaker 5>entitlement that I can just behave this way because what

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<v Speaker 5>I'm just gonna throw some money at it, and normally

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<v Speaker 5>people do go away.

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<v Speaker 3>So what's the endgame?

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<v Speaker 5>That's always my question when I see stuff like this,

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<v Speaker 5>and when you're talking about twenty eighteen, twenty twenty, twenty

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<v Speaker 5>twenty two, there's another problem. Again, I'm not saying that

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<v Speaker 5>this didn't happen to this woman, but what I'm saying

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<v Speaker 5>is now you've put yourself in a situation where it's

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<v Speaker 5>difficult for people to believe you because now you've gone

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<v Speaker 5>all this time and you've said nothing, and now you're

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<v Speaker 5>not doing criminal charges, you're doing a lawsuit that could

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<v Speaker 5>potentially get you financial gain. Same thing happened with Cassie

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<v Speaker 5>when she was on the stand. She said, you know,

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<v Speaker 5>I didn't say anything because he might have replaced me,

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<v Speaker 5>there's a level of lifestyle that she was getting used to.

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<v Speaker 3>That's a problem. I interviewed.

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<v Speaker 5>If you go way back in the Jackie Ray Show days,

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<v Speaker 5>I interviewed a woman named Tasha Biltmore. She was doing

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<v Speaker 5>this whole play about her domestic violence experience, and I

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<v Speaker 5>had to ask her the question. I says, you know,

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<v Speaker 5>I know this is going to be a difficult question,

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<v Speaker 5>but I'm listening to you talk about years and years

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<v Speaker 5>of abuse and I have to ask, what the hell

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<v Speaker 5>were you thinking? And she even said, in that situation,

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<v Speaker 5>I knew if I left that my whole life would

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<v Speaker 5>change as far as the lifestyle that I was accustomed to.

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<v Speaker 5>It's difficult for me to really sympathize with you if

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<v Speaker 5>you're seeking money, if lifestyle is a consider ration exactly,

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<v Speaker 5>and so that's it's difficult for me to really say, Okay, yeah,

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<v Speaker 5>you know this is horrible. If you're staying because you

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<v Speaker 5>don't you don't want the money to go away, then

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<v Speaker 5>that's the price.

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<v Speaker 2>I want to believe, and maybe I'm not, depending on

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<v Speaker 2>who is listening right now, I want to believe I'm

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<v Speaker 2>fair in this regard. I would like to be the

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<v Speaker 2>person who's I'm not going to be the person who says,

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<v Speaker 2>believe all women.

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<v Speaker 4>I'm not right.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm not because people lie people right.

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<v Speaker 2>I am going to be a person to say, let's

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<v Speaker 2>hear the story and judge it on its merits. I

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<v Speaker 2>don't know enough about the evidence in this. I do

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<v Speaker 2>know the difference between a civil lawsuit and criminal charges

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<v Speaker 2>as far as the standard a proof. I do know

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<v Speaker 2>that in a civil lawsuit, all you need is the

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<v Speaker 2>propounderance of evidence, which is fifty one percent, which is

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<v Speaker 2>a much lower standard. In other words, you have a

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<v Speaker 2>greater likelihood of being successful financially as opposed to in

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<v Speaker 2>a criminal child where you need beyond reasonable doubt.

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<v Speaker 5>Right, But then that's in a lawsuit like this. In

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<v Speaker 5>the civil lawsuit, then it becomes the believability because unless

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<v Speaker 5>she's recorded this, unless there were video surveillance in the

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<v Speaker 5>house that showed this, what is the proof is gone now?

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<v Speaker 5>And so now it's gonna be do you believe her

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<v Speaker 5>in a court or do you believe zion? And that

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<v Speaker 5>a lot of times comes down to likability, and that.

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<v Speaker 2>Is the large discussion for everyone to wrestle with. Some

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<v Speaker 2>people in the chatter say I don't know who Zion

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<v Speaker 2>Williamson is. Well that's really neither here nor there. If

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<v Speaker 2>you follow NBA basketball closely, you know who he is.

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<v Speaker 2>But the point is there is something to extract as

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<v Speaker 2>far as this is not the first and won't.

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<v Speaker 4>Be the last.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, how do we look at the idea of a

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<v Speaker 2>woman suing and not pursuing criminal charges within the statute

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<v Speaker 2>of limitations?

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<v Speaker 5>So I'm gonna give some grace because I understand that

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<v Speaker 5>if this were to happen to me, who knows how

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<v Speaker 5>long it would take me to mentally be okay to

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<v Speaker 5>even talk about this publicly. So that's first and foremost.

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<v Speaker 5>You don't know how people respond to grief and trauma,

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<v Speaker 5>So I'm definitely gonna give grace. I would like to

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<v Speaker 5>think it wouldn't take from twenty eighteen to twenty twenty five,

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<v Speaker 5>because again, at that point, I lose my credibility. So

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<v Speaker 5>if my intent is to stop this from happening to

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<v Speaker 5>another woman, it can't be just about me. It has

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<v Speaker 5>to be about stopping this abuser who by if what

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<v Speaker 5>she's saying is true, this man feels entitled to do this.

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<v Speaker 2>And probably she would not be the only one that

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<v Speaker 2>it's happened to exactly if we take.

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<v Speaker 3>Her at her word exactly.

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<v Speaker 5>So what I would say to any woman prayer forllly

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<v Speaker 5>this never happens to you.

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<v Speaker 3>But if it does happen.

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<v Speaker 5>To you, you, as a woman should embrace the responsibility

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<v Speaker 5>of making sure another woman does not have to go

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<v Speaker 5>through that if you can have anything to do with that.

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<v Speaker 4>It's Later with mo Kelly.

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<v Speaker 2>Jackie Ray joins me in studio as we go beyond

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<v Speaker 2>the Boxwell, when we come back, we have to talk

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<v Speaker 2>about the trans athlete who won two girls air quotes

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<v Speaker 2>and I mean that air quotes track and field events

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<v Speaker 2>at the California State CIF Finals. That's next KFI AM

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<v Speaker 2>six forty. We're live on YouTube, Instagram, and the iHeartRadio app.

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<v Speaker 1>You're listening to Later with mo Kelly on demand from

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<v Speaker 1>KFI AM six forty.

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<v Speaker 2>It's Later with mo Kelly Live on YouTube, Instagram, andy

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<v Speaker 2>I Heartradio App. As we continue to go beyond the

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<v Speaker 2>box score with Jackie Ray. A huge subject and story

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<v Speaker 2>here in California. The trans athlete who won two girls

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<v Speaker 2>track and field events at California High School Track and

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<v Speaker 2>Field Championships over the weekend took home gold in the

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<v Speaker 2>girl's high jump and the triple jump tremendous controversy. We

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<v Speaker 2>know that the Trump administration is investigating whether California state

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<v Speaker 2>law is in violation of Title nine federal law and

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<v Speaker 2>its provisions for girls slash women's athletics on.

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<v Speaker 4>A scholastic level.

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<v Speaker 2>Let me just say this because I always feel like

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<v Speaker 2>I have to do this as a precursor. This is

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<v Speaker 2>not against the trans community, and I'm not going to

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<v Speaker 2>disrespect anyone in the community, but when it comes to

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<v Speaker 2>trans children, and they are children, and if they want

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<v Speaker 2>to perform in athletics or compete in athletics, sometimes you

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<v Speaker 2>have to tell your child no right and sometimes you

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<v Speaker 2>have to do it because you have to teach the

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<v Speaker 2>child that the world is not going to confirm to.

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<v Speaker 4>Your individual decisions.

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<v Speaker 2>Title nine in girls sports is predicated not only on

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<v Speaker 2>fair competition, but a biological separation. Not a gender expression separation,

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<v Speaker 2>but a biological one.

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<v Speaker 4>Where do you come out on this, Jackie Ray.

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<v Speaker 5>I think it's quite disappointing that this is even a thing.

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<v Speaker 5>I think that any true athlete, a true competitor, someone

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<v Speaker 5>who wants to go out there and win, wants to

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<v Speaker 5>win against the best and if you are a biological male,

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<v Speaker 5>there's just no way you can say that you are

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<v Speaker 5>competing against your equal counterparts. You can't say that now,

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<v Speaker 5>you can't say that just because you've been taking these hormones.

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<v Speaker 5>You'll never be able to say that because you will

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<v Speaker 5>never be a biological woman. So for in the spirit

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<v Speaker 5>of competition, every athlete I know wants to compete against

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<v Speaker 5>the best, even if they know they might not win

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<v Speaker 5>against the best. It's a level of competition and being

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<v Speaker 5>able to get over and say, hey, I won that

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<v Speaker 5>through my pure grit and strength. And so it's disappointing

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<v Speaker 5>to me that so many transgender athletes even want to

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<v Speaker 5>participate in women's sports, because however you identify is irrelevant

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<v Speaker 5>to me. It's a biological women's sports. And people forget

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<v Speaker 5>how hard we had to fight talk about Title nine,

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<v Speaker 5>Title nine. People forget all about Title nine. When I

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<v Speaker 5>was coming up, there wasn't a WNBA until there was

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<v Speaker 5>a WNBA, and part of.

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<v Speaker 4>Don't forget the ABL which preceded.

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<v Speaker 5>The NBA, right, But it was a fight to say, hey,

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<v Speaker 5>we want to play sports. We want to play the

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<v Speaker 5>same sports as men. There was a whole like if

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<v Speaker 5>you read the history. And I know a lot of

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<v Speaker 5>people don't read these days, but if you read, you

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<v Speaker 5>read the history, there was a whole men did this

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<v Speaker 5>whole campaign. When women were saying we want our own sports,

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<v Speaker 5>men would say, oh, there's not enough women who would

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<v Speaker 5>actually want to play sports.

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<v Speaker 4>That's right.

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<v Speaker 5>We had to fight against the narrative. We had to

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<v Speaker 5>fight against men. We had to fight and just make

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<v Speaker 5>our own leagues just to be relevant. And then even

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<v Speaker 5>when you're talking about the WNBA right now, without even looking,

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<v Speaker 5>we could go back on some of our podcasts and

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<v Speaker 5>I would bet my last dollar that there's men in

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<v Speaker 5>there that are saying the WNBA isn't as good as

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<v Speaker 5>the NBA, and people are not watching it because of this.

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<v Speaker 5>That and the third. The fight for women's sports is

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<v Speaker 5>never going to end. So for a biological man to

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<v Speaker 5>want to jump into that ring is offensive. It's just

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<v Speaker 5>flat out offensive.

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<v Speaker 4>Well it's offensive.

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<v Speaker 2>It is also unfair, and I think it demeans and

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<v Speaker 2>diminishes the fight and the whole purpose of having. When

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<v Speaker 2>I say women's sports that includes girl sports, I hate

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<v Speaker 2>to say the same thing over and over again, but

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<v Speaker 2>my argument hasn't changed. This is an expression of gender.

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<v Speaker 2>It's not a change of your actual sex, your born sex,

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<v Speaker 2>how you choose to express it, from makeup, hair clothes,

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<v Speaker 2>that's gender, right, and title nine is not about gender.

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<v Speaker 5>It's about sex exactly, exactly. And I just think I'm

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<v Speaker 5>a little disappointed. I kind of wish that the parents,

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<v Speaker 5>and this is something that I would encourage parents to

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<v Speaker 5>do when instead of taking to social media and being

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<v Speaker 5>upset about this, which if you're a parent, you have

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<v Speaker 5>every right to be upset, snatch your kid out. If

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<v Speaker 5>all the parents that were competing against this transgender person said,

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<v Speaker 5>you know what, if this is the game you want

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<v Speaker 5>to play, we're not gonna play it full stop. This

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<v Speaker 5>is the thing, and people were like, oh, that's not

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<v Speaker 5>It's one hundred percent fair because at the end of

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<v Speaker 5>the day, I'm not competing against my equal and I'm

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<v Speaker 5>not going to let you put my child in a

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<v Speaker 5>situation where now they have to think that maybe they

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<v Speaker 5>didn't train hard enough, maybe they're less than for any

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<v Speaker 5>other reason, when there is a biological reason that they

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<v Speaker 5>might not have won in that particular situation.

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<v Speaker 2>That's the whole point of having the girl's hide jump

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<v Speaker 2>or the girls tackle jump.

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<v Speaker 5>That is the whole point.

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<v Speaker 2>Sometimes and this is broader than just sports. Sometimes you

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<v Speaker 2>have to tell your child no. And although you can

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<v Speaker 2>be supportive of the decision for their choice as far

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<v Speaker 2>as how they want to express themselselves as far as

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<v Speaker 2>gender to the world, it doesn't mean that they are

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<v Speaker 2>also entitled And I know that's maybe a loaded word,

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<v Speaker 2>but it might be the appropriate word. That they're entitled

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<v Speaker 2>to then have access to every single space because of

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<v Speaker 2>an individual decision of expression of gender.

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<v Speaker 5>Right, you, your personal choices in life do not affect

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<v Speaker 5>the actual world. That's your little bubble in the world.

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<v Speaker 5>How you choose, how you choose to live, like if

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<v Speaker 5>you if you want to if you're a biological man

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<v Speaker 5>and you want to live as a woman, that is

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<v Speaker 5>your bubble. That is your world you can but out

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<v Speaker 5>in the real world, there's a certain set of rules

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<v Speaker 5>that we have to conform to if we want a

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<v Speaker 5>sense of fairness in this world, and this this entitlement,

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<v Speaker 5>if you will to not have to conform to that

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<v Speaker 5>is not only frustrating, but you're making enemies we're in

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<v Speaker 5>don't need to be made. And I've said this time

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<v Speaker 5>and time again. I know the transgender community only makes

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<v Speaker 5>up one percent of the population. But I've always said

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<v Speaker 5>in boxing, we have heavyweight, lightweight, featherweight.

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<v Speaker 3>We have all reasons for a reason. There's a reason

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<v Speaker 3>why we have so many divisions.

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<v Speaker 5>There's a reason why we don't let elementary school kids

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<v Speaker 5>play with middle school kids, and why we don't let

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<v Speaker 5>middle school kids play with high school kids.

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<v Speaker 3>We have all these different divisions for a reason.

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<v Speaker 2>Make yours not even middle school kids against high school kids.

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<v Speaker 4>We do it by year and age.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, we have eight year olds, let's say eight

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<v Speaker 2>nine playing They don't play against nine and ten.

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<v Speaker 5>Year olds, right, And we also have nine and ten

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<v Speaker 5>year olds who look like they're thirteen and fourteen, who

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<v Speaker 5>can't play with nine and ten year olds.

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<v Speaker 2>Say, now, I got to argue with someone about this,

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<v Speaker 2>and they didn't know that I had a history as officially.

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<v Speaker 4>So well, what about when you have boys.

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<v Speaker 2>And girls play on the same team when they're like

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<v Speaker 2>nine and ten years old pre pubescent? I said, because

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<v Speaker 2>they're pre pubescent on the other side of puberty. Then

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<v Speaker 2>you have the biological differences. You have testosterone and estrogen

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<v Speaker 2>playing an outsize impact on what these athletes will be.

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<v Speaker 2>That's why you don't have the sixteen year old girl.

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<v Speaker 2>I should say the sixteen year old boy playing in

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<v Speaker 2>the girls league.

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<v Speaker 5>Come on, I mean, it's so basic as far as

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<v Speaker 5>your intelligent level, how it has to be the level

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<v Speaker 5>you have to be. It's not a high IQ argument.

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<v Speaker 2>No, And I reject the arguments like well it's only

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<v Speaker 2>one athlete. It's look, rules are not about the exception.

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<v Speaker 2>Rules are about for everyone to follow, not everyone except someone.

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<v Speaker 2>And I think it's easier to delineate this because it's sports,

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<v Speaker 2>because sports are predicated on fair play. Sports are predicated

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<v Speaker 2>on even level of competition, and everybody follows the same rules,

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<v Speaker 2>the same rules. Yes, I always say get the easy ones, right.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm sorry, this is not being against trans people. Let

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<v Speaker 2>me be clear, it's not against trans people. If you

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<v Speaker 2>want to express yourself in a certain way, if you

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<v Speaker 2>want to live your life in a certain way, so

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<v Speaker 2>be it.

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<v Speaker 4>How you dress, how you talk, how you interact.

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<v Speaker 2>But that does not grant you the right to then

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<v Speaker 2>also expect to be it's not even welcome. It's just

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<v Speaker 2>we're talking about access into things which are predicated on

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<v Speaker 2>biological difference or and you said this before, so I'm

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<v Speaker 2>gonna give this back to you. If you're not going

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<v Speaker 2>to do away with biological differences, then this is the

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<v Speaker 2>way it has to be. Or you can do away

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<v Speaker 2>with biological differences and everyone just plays yeah, and that's

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<v Speaker 2>never gonna happen.

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<v Speaker 5>And hello, why it's never gonna happen because there's no

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<v Speaker 5>woman in the WNBA that can take a charge from

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<v Speaker 5>Lebron James.

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<v Speaker 4>You know what I'm saying, Make it all, but that'll

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<v Speaker 4>be the last game she played.

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<v Speaker 5>Right, forty year old Lebron James right now against Angel Wilson,

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<v Speaker 5>the best player, or Nafisa Collier, the best players in

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<v Speaker 5>the w I'm telling you right now, that is a

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<v Speaker 5>concussion that's going to take months to recover from.

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<v Speaker 3>It is not the same.

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<v Speaker 5>And I think the problem in our society specifically is

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<v Speaker 5>we have difficulties saying your difference is okay, and instead

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<v Speaker 5>we want to say we're all this and no and

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<v Speaker 5>damn well, we're not the melting pot. Like we all

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<v Speaker 5>find differences in different ways, We're not a melting pot,

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<v Speaker 5>and that differences are okay, embrace them.

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<v Speaker 3>Women have fought very, very hard for this position.

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<v Speaker 5>I would implore the trends community to come to us

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<v Speaker 5>and ask us how we can help you fight for

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<v Speaker 5>your space in sports, but don't take ours.

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<v Speaker 4>Jackie Ray, good to see it.

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<v Speaker 1>You're listening to Later with Moe Kelly on demand from

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<v Speaker 1>KFI AM six forty