Speaker 1: The countdown is on to fight time. This is Big
Fight Weekend. Now here is your host, DJ.
Speaker 2: Leaves Well, we get ready for a welterweight unification weekend.
Jiron Boots Innis and a Mitis Stanionis get ready to
battle in Atlantic City. We're ready to talk about that,
and we're ready to go over some fight news, and
we're ready to go over some nostalgia and much more.
Welcome back here on the Big Fight Weekend preview pod.
I am somewhat more rested. Your humble host TJ Reeves.
He is our insider Dan rayphiel back Aboard from the
Fight Freaks Unit, substack and the newsletter. We have been
awaiting this matchup for Innis with Stanionis for a couple
of weeks. You've talked to Jiron Innis. That weekend is
now upon us. We're ready to go into that fight
here in a couple of moments. Reminder, however, you found
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Speaker 1: Are we ready to go here.
Speaker 2: For another weekend where it's an intriguing world welterweight main
event in the matchroom Dezone show.
Speaker 3: I am ready to go. I've been looking forward to
this fight for a while and it said's the light weekend.
This is really the only fight of the only main
event of you know, any show of real consequence, so
it all have its attention and it should be a
should be a fun fight.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we are looking forward to everything that's going to
happen with it. Again, the fight in Atlantic City were
well documented, not far from Philadelphia where innis is from
the Boardwalk Hall. Let's pick it up on that the
big arena and the fact that there should be a
real atmosphere for this thing on Saturday.
Speaker 4: Oh, no doubt about it.
Speaker 3: Boots has been a good draw in Philly and the
two main event fights he's had there in the recent
past through good crowds for those two fights against Avianesian
and the rematch against Chicazian.
Speaker 4: And now he.
Speaker 3: Goes to Boardwalk Hall, which is a place that it's
made for him because he is from Philly. It is
a short drive from the hometown. It is a nice diversion.
Let's say to go on a weekend to go to
the Boardwalk and you know, play some you know, gamble
a little bit, have a nice dinner or whatever. And
it's not too far away. And like you said, very
historic venue. And it's only the first time they're going
to have a boxing match in the main arena in
the Boardwalk Call in like over ten years time was
when Bernard Hopkins. Hopkins and Sergey Kovolev met and they're
a very high profile light heavyweight unification fight. And it
still boggles my mind that it has been that long
But that's what happened. Atlantic City was kind of going
down the tubes. The casinos weren't putting the money in
the I mean people were still going to Atlantic City.
I mean it's still a destination location for you know,
millions of people every year, but for whatever reason, they
just weren't doing the bigger shows. Now there's been a
ton of smaller shows in Atlantic City. They've used the
building for the smaller arena that's upstairs at Holes probably
like three or four thousand, and they've done it Boots
and a spot there as a matter of fact, and
against romaind Via not that long ago. But the main arena,
that's the historic venue. That's where Mike Tyson knocked out
Michael Spinks. That's where Evander Holyfield thought George Foreman, that
is where I was in that building for you know,
nine different Arturio Gaddy fights at the end of his
you know, as he closed up his career, had some
you know, the historic second and third fights against Mickey
Ward between Gaddy and him, were there, Miguel Coto, Bernard Hopkins,
Vladimir Klitschko, Jermaine Taylor, Kelly Pavlick. The first fight I mean,
I covered many many fights there, and I'm thrilled just
for boxing fans and for the East Coast that there's
big time boxing back in that building because it had
been a long time.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean you and I are older.
Speaker 2: I mean it would be hard to fathom that Atlantic
City back in the eighties or nineties would go more
than a year or.
Speaker 1: Two without a prominent fight.
Speaker 4: A year.
Speaker 1: Eleven years, Yeah.
Speaker 2: It's it's definitely a former boxing hot bed, and again
there should be some real atmosphere for this. All right,
let me go out at this point because you and
I have already our week is all wobbling. First of all,
I had little sleep, like Monday to Tuesday as it was.
We did the bet Us Show on Wednesday, so my
week is all screwed up that today is not Saturday
because normally we do the bet Us Show on Friday.
But on that show, you and I broke this fight
down a little bit. Let me go out it like
this in the preview mode. If stanionis is going to
have success, give me your thing or two that he
has to do, well, what are you for it?
Speaker 1: Right away?
Speaker 3: Oh, he's got to impose himself big time. He has
to be offensive minded. He's not gonna out box Boots Ennis,
that is not happening. He's gonna have to impose himself.
He's gonna have to really take it to him. He's
gonna be physical with him, rough them up and uh
and and make it extremely uncomfortable for Boots. And it's
one thing about Ennis is he'll fight at a at
a He's he's a good offensive fighter, but he's not, uh,
not a guy that that that goes crazy on guys
like you know what I'm saying. Like, he's very uh
controlled with the way he fights. He likes to go
at his own pace. Stanionis is kind of similar in
that respect. But he's gonna have to in my opinion, Uh,
he's gonna have to go to the old cliche pressure
bust pipes, and that's what he's gonna need to do.
Because Boots has many ways he can win the fight. Stanionis,
in my opinion, has basically one way to win the fight,
and that's to apply as much pressure as possible, make
it as uncomfortable as possible for Boots as as he
as he humanly can. And that's the way he's gonna
win the fight. Otherwise he's going to be in for
a very rough and long night in my opinion.
Speaker 2: And in his case, he's gotten hit some which has
got to be a little bit of a concern. And
now we'll see if he can if he can capitalize
on this moment and bigger things ahead if you are
the unified champion a year for Saturday Night.
Speaker 3: One thing about that, I think when he fought Avanessian, yeah,
he was excited to be at home. I think when
he fought the rematch against Takazi and he had no
interest in that fight like everybody else in the world,
and he didn't e didn't bad in those fights, I
mean not Devinessy now looked pretty good. That the Chakazian
fight was not so much. But he's still won very easily.
But I feel like he's sort of, in some manner,
fought down to the competition of those fights, perhaps a
little boredom, you know, been just dying and desperate to
get the big fight. Now relative to a welterweight division,
that's frankly not that good if you ask me. But
you know, the guys who are there, who are there
with the titles at all. But I think he's extremely
motivated for this fight, as I'm sure Amanta Stanionis is.
Speaker 4: Also.
Speaker 3: I feel like that both guys are going to rise
to that occasion because this is by far their biggest fight,
So He's gonna want to put on a show. Stanionis
is gonna want to do the same thing. So I
think from that perspective, it'll be a little better in
terms of comparing it to kind of I want to
say lethargic, but you know, just sort of going through
the motions in some respect the way he did against
particularly in the Chikazi and second fight. Now maybe that
was because of the weight scenario. Remember he spoke about
how hard it was to make one forty seven after
the fight. Obviously he's got to make one forty seven
as the Stanionis again for this fight. So we'll see
if the weight cut goes okay, I think we'll be
able to tell, you know, pretty quickly. Well, we'll see
him at the way in, but then more significantly, we'll
see how he is on fight night. You know that
that open to me and I M not usually say
this about a lot of fights, but I think we're
no learn a lot. Like literally, in the first round
of the fight just to see who's who's got like
some spring in their step, and you know how Boots
looks and how Stanionis looks and all that.
Speaker 2: Stanionis has had won one fight in three years one so.
Speaker 3: And he's coming off a one year layoff, I mean,
so it's not like he's been active even before that.
So that's you know, we've discussed that ad nauseum. It's
not entirely his fault. It's part of it was because
of the mess up with Virgil Ortiz and the various
elements that caused their fight to be postponed and canceled
three different times because of Stanionis had the appendectomy Giron
and I mean Virgil Ortiz had his own medical issues.
But the reality is he hasn't fought since the Gabriel
my Estuary decision victory that was back in May of
last year, that was on one of Canelo's undercards. Then
you got to go all the way back to this
time April sixteenth, twenty twenty two, so three full years
when he fought, which was a good hell of a
fight by the way, where you want to split decision
against Bataiev on a card at the AT and t stadium.
But it's been a very it's been a very frustrating experience.
It's not like he didn't want to fight. I mean,
sandi Ois has talked about that. For Ennis, who had
gone through issues in the past when he was having
his own you know, management and promotional situations. He got
his SOF squared away and when he signed with Matroom
and finally got a little more comfortable in terms of
the schedule. So he's had two fights in twenty twenty three,
had the two fights in twenty twenty four. One of
those two twenty three fights was that fight I mentioned
against Via that took place in the boardwalk call but
in the smaller arena upstairs. Then he had the back
to back fights back in Philly at the Wells Fargo Center.
And now he's on to the unification fight, obviously the
biggest fight in the career for both of these guys.
Speaker 2: All right, so we got that one coming as the
main event. Let's cascade down a little bit. Raymond Ford
moving up here to junior lightweight.
Speaker 4: It's going to be it'll be a second fight.
Speaker 2: In this second fight, we remember him as the WBA
featherweight champion who Nick Ball narrowly defeated and took the
featherweight title from Will. Ford is back with an American
out of Cleveland, a veteran named Thomas Matisse. Tell me
more about this in the co feature.
Speaker 3: This is one of those kinds of fights, TJ. Whare
where Ford is obviously expected to be the winner, but
he's in with a veteran guy. I known for a
good chin, He's got a few losses, four losses, never
never been stopped, and Ford is a dynamic kind of fighter.
Speaker 4: He can be.
Speaker 3: You mentioned that the very close loss by split against
Nick Ball. A lot of people thought that that that
Ray deserved to win that fight, but he had made
it known when that fight happened that win or lose,
he was moving up to the one hundred and thirty
pound way class. Remember that was on the five on
five card back in June of last year. He came
back in in November. He did fight at one hundred
and thirty pounds. He scored a ten round decision. He
was also on Booches undercard at the Wells Fargo Center.
He defeated, you know, a pretty solid opponent in Orlando Gonzalez.
Now he goes in this fight with Matisse trying to
just you know, kind of keep the kind of keep
the train moving, you know what I mean, trying to
keep the chains moving and and positioned himself for some
type of world ton of fight. You know, Matisse has
never been an easy out for anybody. You know, He's
coming off a tough loss against Eduardo Rocky Ronendez. That
was a technical decision because of a of a head
butt that you know, went to the it was went
to the scorecards after but after four rounds of being completed.
So he lost the decision in that fight. But I
think he'll come to fight and look for Ford. This
is about the world title opportunity. So he's gonna be
highly ranked in the different organizations.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 3: Look, I think he's gonna be highly ranked in the
WBA because that's where he held the featherweight belt. Lamont Roach,
who is in the process of you know, they're gonna
get the rematch going with with Tank Davis. He is
the wa' one hundred and thirty pound champion at the moment.
I have to assume that whatever is gonna go on,
Lamont's probably gonna move up the lightweight for good and
that'll probably put if if Ford wins the fight, put
him in a decent position to uh to challenge. You know,
the w BA will elevate the interim champion, which is
the Albert Bett Tardzgiyev from the Russian fighters in Olympian
But maybe I'll try to go after somebody else. I mean,
Navarete's occupied right now, he's got a fight coming up.
Oshaki Foster is the WBC's champion. He's in an optional period,
doesn't have a fight scheduled at the moment. The IBF
title is currently vacant. So ray Ford, I mean, he's
one of the better guys in the way class just
on the fact that I named the champions. But there's
not like a ton of other guys there that you
would necessarily recognize his name, So he'll have a big
cheering crowd there for me. He's from Camden, New Jersey.
He's one of the reasons that he's on this card.
You know, he'll bring in a few people, I am sure,
and let's see what he can do in terms of
the rest of that undercard. I'm excited to see once
again the development of the Olympic medalist Omari Jones, who
turned pro with Mattum who's recently in Orlando is hometown,
on the same card with Ammo Williams when he got
his victory.
Speaker 2: Back what like three weeks ago. Yeah, him going, I
like it.
Speaker 4: I like it.
Speaker 3: He literally like once his that fight was over with,
they basically announced, like at the press conference after the
fight that he would be back on this card. They've
had to obviously make sure that he won the fight
and came away with no particular injury. So he's in
another you know, just this will be the way it
is for the first you know, handful of his fights.
Like every young prospect, he's in a developmental fight. He's
a German all waight. He'll be in a six round
against William Jackson. It's not about the fight that I'm
interested in. I want to see the continued development of
a young man that looks like he's got a tremendous
amount of potential and we'll talk about, hopefully in the
next few years as a bonafide contender and or title challenger,
Prospect of the year type of fighter. Look, when I
interviewed him for the podcast that we did with him
before he turned pro, I had never interviewed him before
extremely impressive a guy in terms of his attitude and
the way he spoke and sort of understanding the developmental
process of getting understand you know, he's bringing up like
Pearonel Whittaker to me, like when I hear a young
guy that's like what twenty three years old talking about
Peronel Whittaker, that makes him he's like an og in
my book, Like he knows he knows the older guys,
and I respect that. So I'm looking forward to seeing
him fight and then the other fight on the under card.
It's not so much again, it's not about the fight.
It's to see how he takes care of his business.
That's shocked from giosof who's a matchroom boxer. He is
the mandatory challenger in this way, you know, for the
winner of the main event. He's been waiting. He stepped
aside from the mandatory against Danionis to allow this fight
to take place. So he's gonna stay busy on the undercard.
Uh in a ten rounder and he is supposed to
get the winner of the fight. Now we'll see what
happens with that. You know, that goes if Andis is
the winner, and maybe they can try to make some
other unification fight. Same goes for Stanionis. Maybe the look
to step aside again, maybe if Boots is the winner,
very good chance he moves up to one hundred and
forty seven. I'm not so sure if Stanionis.
Speaker 4: Is gonna and fifty four four exactly, So you're not sure.
Speaker 3: The point is Giosova is positioned, whether it's the winner
or a vacant title or whatever, but he's it's important,
right And look, you know, Gisov has not been the
most impressive as a pro. He was an Olympian, Olympic
medal winner. He comes with a lot of credentials. I
actually was ringside when he fought his last fight. There
was in August, or maybe it was his last fight,
but it was a recent fight when he fought on
the on the UH on the Crawford magim Off part.
He fought a few nights before on the on the
h on the boardwalk. They did the fight, remember they
did that three fights in California, right in the Santa
Monic appear and and I was like, really, frankly kind
of unimpressed with his performance. It was really not impressive.
So it's hard for me to project him as like
a serious title challenger at this moment in time. But
you know he's in position. He's sixteen to zero and
this is I just looked this up while we were
doing this, and that was his last fight against Miguel
Para that night on the boardwalk, So he's coming off
not a long, long laugh, but you know, back.
Speaker 1: In that nine months, right.
Speaker 3: But I do appreciate the fact that, you know, for
business reasons, he decided let's let this main event go
forth so we can have the unification, and that would
be good for him because if he can fight for
the unified title in his ex fight, that's the chance
to pick up two belts in one night and not
have to go one by one by one by one
if you want to be undisputed.
Speaker 2: And I have one more footnote to what you were
just saying, and we'll talk more about this in the
aftermath with what happens. I will be consistent that if
Jeron Innis moves up to junior middleweight, not wanting to
do the deal with Virgil Ortiz, oh, this deal is
supposed to be at welterweight, it's not supposed to be
at junior middleweight, and he's gonna turn run around after
one fight and then move up to junior middleweight anyway,
then remember, all of that back and forth is seemingly
died down.
Speaker 1: We haven't talked about all of that.
Speaker 2: If if he is sincere in wanting to unify the
titles and being undisputed and staying at WELTERWEIGHTE fine, But
we should be ready to pounce mister Rayphield. We should
be ready to pounce on if he's going to immediately
move up to one fifty four and try to have fights,
then what was all of that about last.
Speaker 3: Summer and what that was all about? I mean, I
don't totally disagree with you. I'm just not as I'm
let's say, if we were politicians and we were either
on the right or the left, you're more to the
far of the side. I'm a little more moderate on
whatever side we're on. So I understand what you're saying,
But you say, what was it all about? It was
all about getting at least one unification fight. I thought
Boots made a really intelligent point to me when I
interviewed him and we talked.
Speaker 1: I heard his explanation.
Speaker 3: I'm I'm gonna just espous to the crowd here in
case they didn't hear this exact comment. He won the
interim IBF title, he never won the title in the ring.
He acknowledge that because it wasn't his fault. Terrence Crawford
was moving up after becoming undisputed and they gave him
the belt when you know he was intermined. That's the
way the business works. So he was very excited about
the fact that he could go into the ring with
a reigning champion granted of the WBA, and if he
gets the victory, they'll say and the new and raise
his hand and they'll get a new title. That to
him is like the moment he's been waiting for that
he never got as the IBF champion. So you say,
what's it all for? What it's all for is to
create some type of line on your resume, some type
of legacy element about being a unified champion, which is
still hard to do in boxing. If it was easy,
everybody would do it. Now, is hen have the ability
in terms of the business to make the fights for
undisputedes his body going to allow him to king you
to make one hundred and forty seven pounds. That's to
be answered. So I'm not going to be mad if
he goes up. The whole purpose was do a unification
and then assess the situation after that, and we'll see,
I don't I mean, maybe they'll go back to the
Brian Norman situation. I don't see the Barrios fight happening
anytime soon. So he may also be listening to what
what Turkey al she has been uh saying, which if
he can pull it off, would be tremendous. Is let
him unify the title if tia Fimo Lopez wins on
May second, and the Times Square card for Tiafimo to
go up and challenge him at welterweight, So maybe fight
one more fight at welterweight. It just wouldn't be a
unification fight. But there's nothing wrong with the welterweight.
Speaker 1: Cham There'll be a lot more money in that fight too, the.
Speaker 3: Welterweight champion against you know, look, this this fight is
for the ring title to un defeated champions, so they'll
be considered like the main champion in the division. So
it's never a bad thing if the if the real
welterweight champ fights the real junior welterweight champ. I mean
that's a good fight unification or otherwise. So one step
at a time. But I'm not gonna pounce on him
if he doesn't stick around in the weight class or
he does some other non unification because he couldn't get
the unification.
Speaker 2: Uh And by the way, you're being very optimistic because
Turkey al she was furious because they had an agreement
for him to fight Virgil Ortiz on the card, and
Jeron Inness tried to pull a fast one and say,
oh no, no, wait a minute, Well.
Speaker 3: I've never gotten any indication that that Turkey was angry.
Speaker 2: Sent the agreed. Well, they sent the agreement to in
US and that's when the problem was. After that, I remember,
I remember us living getting all of that. So let's
see what he does. Let's see what he does. Let's
see if he stays at welterwaite and it's a non issue.
Speaker 3: And also as far as stanionis, I don't think he's
made it clear like if he's going to just if
he wants to go up to fifty four. Here's the
main thing. Whoever is the winner, frankly, and whoever the
loser is. There's a lot of opportunities. Of course, fights
because fifty four has become sneaky, like one of the
more loaded weight classes in the in the sport.
Speaker 1: Agreed, And this has been an electric fighter in the past.
Speaker 2: And maybe you made a good point a few minutes
ago that he's fought down to the level of competition
and he's going to rise to the occasion here and
look tremendous.
Speaker 1: And then there's all kinds of options.
Speaker 3: As we know, he's just got a bit more versatility
than Stanielonis. He can do more things better than Stanielis can.
But stanielis Is is a dog. I mean, he's a
good amateur in the Olympics. He's got a good chin,
as you like.
Speaker 1: To say, a real guy. He's a real guy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we got all right news and that includes Keishaan Davis,
who is going to be back. Let's hear it for activity,
although we're gonna have to say something about the opponent
in a second.
Speaker 1: If this is the opponent, he is due to be.
Speaker 2: Back in the top ranked main event, back in his
hometown of Norfolk, Virginia, and he just fought recently in
a defense, so stay active.
Speaker 1: We like that.
Speaker 2: But the name is Edwin Delos Santos, Rayphiel Is that
not the name that I remember from the Absolute snooze
fest with Shakur Stevenson. Yes, they're the same, that's the
same name. So this will be that's the name. Go ahead, Yeah,
this will be this. This will be his first defense.
He didn't you know he won the title back in February.
He looked great, just destroying Denny's Brentchik, who was undefeated,
who was an Olympic silver medal winner, part of that
vaunted team with Usik and Lomachenko and Vodzick, and he
just destroyed him in four rounds. Won the won the
the WBO title and all the law. There was always
sort of thought, if he wins, we're going to be
bringing back as quickly as possible, which meant sometime in
the early part of the summer. And so that's what's
gonna happen. He's gonna go back to Norfolk. Remember the
fight before he won the title. He fought the final
doubt before the title shot in Norfolk. That was his
first professional fight in his hometown and he pummeled Gustavo Lamos,
who was considered like a dangerous opponent. He had come
in way overweight. Lemos and Kishan went through with the
fight and blew him away in two rounds. It was
a huge celebration Kishan's brother, his older brother Kelvin and
his younger brother Keon. We're both on the show. Keon
was turning professional by the way, when they do this
fight June seventh, that he's going to be on in Norfolk.
The two brothers will once again be on the show.
Good possibility that Abdullah Mason will be on the card
as well. But in any event, look Edwin de los
Santos put on one of the worst fights in the
history of boxing. Frankly, I mean it was and you know,
Shakor takes part of the blane, but Kishan was the
winner of the fight. He did what he had to
do and he also not making excuses for him, but
he was injured in that he came and he came
through when he won the fight. But he set the
first of all. Edwin de los Santos has not fought
since that fight. So that was back what the end
of twenty twenty three, I want to say, and so
it's gonna have been a you know.
Speaker 1: Pretty correct November of twenty.
Speaker 4: Three, a pretty good layoff for him. TJ.
Speaker 3: This is hard to do. He set the all a
copy Box has tracked fights for almost forty years, right,
They have literally tracked I would have tens of thousands
of fights in the history of their company, certainly many
many thousands of fights, many many thousands of fights, and
in any weight class in a twelve round fight, We're
not talking about four riders, talking about twelve round fight
in every single twelve round fight they have ever tracked.
In that fight against you, of course, Stevenson, he landed
the lowest number of punches in the history of CompuBox. Now,
how hard that is to do?
Speaker 1: Never never what you want to be known for exactly.
Speaker 3: I mean, what's that to me? That's like the ultimate
of like ignominy. I mean that was absolutely horrendous, like
you can't and it was like such a sleep inducing fight.
I mean, he deserved every bit of derision that he
got because it was like he didn't even try to
win the fight. He landed forty punches in twelve rounds,
the only thing that got him off the hook. And
this is shocking because, like I said, Copybox's been doing
fights for almost forty years. It was like thirty eight
years at the time that this fight took place, it
was like three weeks after he set the record of
landing forty punches in a twelve round fight that Regis
Progra broke the record and is even a worst performance
when he lost the WBC one hundred and forty pound
title to Regis Progra by going through a twelve round
snooze fest where he only landed thirty six punches in.
Speaker 1: Twelve Devin Haney right against Devin Hanny. Right?
Speaker 4: What did I say?
Speaker 2: You said, Progra against Progra, Devin Han Yeah, he landed
thirty six punches. But anyway, Dello Santos has it fought
for practically a year and a half and he's now
going to be the opponent.
Speaker 1: And when we went with this, problems is set up.
Speaker 2: This is set up for Keishawn Davis to knock him
over in Norfolk, in his hometown.
Speaker 1: That's what this is set up for.
Speaker 3: Now n Here here's the reality, though, I mean, I
don't I'm not arguing that that he's probably gonna knock
him out. But the thing about it is, if you
look down the rankings of any of the organizations or
non partisan rankings, whatever you say, there's a lot of
good talent in the one hundred and thirty five pound
way class, but there's nobody that's really available for him
to fight, you know what I mean, Like, Okay, I'll
give you an example. Like the other team is Keisha.
I mean, we're gonna get to Schart. He's got other
stuff going on with a mandatory. You got Lomachenko's on
the shelf with an injury. Gervante Davis is fighting the
rematch with Roach. Zepeida is ordered to fight against Shakhor.
And if you go and take a look at any
of the other rannings, look at box Wreck. You know,
they were looking at guys like Miguel Burchelt against Jason
Pauldo against Luca's body, like you can call you up,
but those are the guys that are there. So Stelos Santos,
as horrible as that fight.
Speaker 2: Was, body body might be more intriguing the Delas Santos,
But again, that's a top rank that's a top rank fighter.
Speaker 1: Della Santos that they can make.
Speaker 4: Is not a top rank fighters with Samson Lukwitz.
Speaker 1: Okay, well there you go.
Speaker 4: So the body actually is with MVP with Jake Pauls
that's right.
Speaker 1: That might be a more interesting fight.
Speaker 2: But anyway, but it's like like one half a dozen
of the other looks like the first weekend in June
will get Keshawn Davis back.
Speaker 1: Let's hear it practice.
Speaker 3: It's just for the record. It's not one hundred percent,
but it's gonna get done, and that.
Speaker 2: Means that we will see him again before the end
of this year. Three fights in the same year. Let's
hear it for that. You want to go ahead, let's
talk Shakur Stevenson. While you're on the lightweight subject. In
Williams of Paeda, there's a purse bid scheduled. What are
you hearing? The WBC wants this to happen?
Speaker 1: What are you hearing? Just real quick?
Speaker 3: Well, I mean before they both had different injuries for
you know that that that it had been ordered before,
and then both guys had their own physical issues that
caused it not to happen. And so when Shaquor was
taking care of his UH he had had a surgery
on his wrist.
Speaker 1: UH.
Speaker 3: They ended up having the interim title fight for Zapeida.
He had to remember he had the fight against Keevin Farmer.
He won the belt, close fight, they did the rematch,
won that fight that was just like a week or
two ago. And now finally so they he threw his stuff. Yeah,
Chaquor did the fight against the late replacement in Saudi Arabia.
So now finally Pathley Jush Padley, who've got a house,
I guess for part of his payment. So yeah, So
the WBC did what they're supposed to do and what
they said they would do, which is just this week
they sent out the formal notification to both Shaquor and
Zepaida's teams.
Speaker 4: Hakor is with.
Speaker 3: Mattrium is with Golden Boy, and they ordered the fight.
They gave them thirty days to make a deal. If
they don't make a deal, they will have a purse bit.
On May sixth I had talked to Maursio Suliman about that.
The perse split they haven't determined because these paid people
have asked for a modification that'll be considered by the
WBC's board of Governors. But regardless, that fight seems to
be the next one up for both guys. What I
thought was interesting is I saw something about Eddie Hearn
was doing. He's been doing some interviews because he's promoting
the stanionis fight with Boots Ennis and one of the
things that he said, and I don't remember which channel
it was, so I forgive me for not giving him
the credit. One of the maybe one of the YouTube
channels talking about and this is not a surprise because
they've already talked about this before. There's a very good
likelihood that there's supposed to be another five versus five
that might be Mats Rooms fighters against Golden Boys fighters.
And if that is the case, possibly that it would
be chakor versus the Data that would headline, all right,
five between those companies, So that would be interesting.
Speaker 1: Sign me up if that's the fight.
Speaker 4: But that's a really fascinating show.
Speaker 2: Just because there's the purse bid and the ordering and
all of that doesn't mean that it's going to be next.
We've learned that. So let's see if that one comes
to fruition. Because if they're both healthy, If they're both healthy,
that's an intriguing fight.
Speaker 3: Will this as long as unless somebody vacates or it
gets injured, this will be the next fight for these
two guys, all right.
Speaker 1: Let's see it on that.
Speaker 2: Speaking of the WBC the news earlier this week that
Dmitri Bivol notified them he's vacating their light heavyweight title
and instead wants to fight Arthur Better BF for a
third time. This means David Benevitez will be elevated to
that elevated Yeah, he's elevated. So but he didn't have
he didn't have the big time fight that he's been
angling for for the last year since moving up to
light heavyweight. All right, so what is to you what
does all of this mean? Because I have a theory.
I already already expoused this theory on the bet Us Show.
But tell me what you think it means, and then
I will weigh in.
Speaker 4: Go listen.
Speaker 3: I think that this was a case where you can't
fight two guys at once, and so Dimitian Bievol had
the opportunity against better BV.
Speaker 4: He lost.
Speaker 3: He got the immediate rematch, which was something he really
you know, they had a they wrote to the organizations.
They really made a strong case for it. Turkey was
endorsing of it. He actually thought that people won the fight.
He said so afterwards. Anyway, he got the rematch, and
then he won the rematch and he became the undisputed champion.
And so he's doing what is not unexpected. I this
is exactly the scenario that I had anticipated, that they
had a commitment to do a third fight contractually morally,
however you want to look at it. Turkey's paying him
a lot of money to do the fight. Or B
gave him the rematch, he's gonna do the same. They're
gonna have the trilogy fight. Better B is not getting
any younger, and so that's still a big fight. It's
there's still the two best.
Speaker 1: Like, hang on, I got a backup a step.
Speaker 2: You said contractually and then you said morally, which morally
in the world.
Speaker 1: Of boxing doesn't mean anything.
Speaker 2: Hold on, there was not a contractual you have to
fight better bv right as a third fight.
Speaker 3: I've been told that there was some type of contract
complication that it was like the option of the Saudis
to do so apparently they were are going to do that.
I think that's the case. But the main thing is
there is not Now. Look, you said honor and boxing.
Speaker 4: You know you can.
Speaker 3: Morality right, but but here's the point though, A it's
still the right thing to do and be there are
some people that do take that seriously. People I think
as a sports person is one of those people. Clearly
him and if you know, if you know like v
Dem Kornilov who has been his manager as an career,
and then there's plenty of other fighters. He's a person.
In my experience, I have known that Deem twenty years.
Probably like he stands on the principle if that makes sense,
like like he's not the kind of guy that's just gonna,
you know, fuck somebody just because he can. So I
think they just felt strongly they need to do the
fight now. But that said, it's still a top notch fight.
There's still two pound for pound elite guys. Better BV
is not getting younger.
Speaker 2: I'm not so sure that better BV is still a
pound for pound elite guy. After watching that second fight,
because he's forty, he didn't look great.
Speaker 4: It was like a one point fight.
Speaker 1: I'm telling you what I saw. He didn't look great.
Speaker 2: I don't care about the scoring because the scoring can
be explained away, and he gets explained away all the
time that these judges are clueless. He didn't look great
in that fight. He is forty. I don't know how elite.
I wouldn't use the word elite anything.
Speaker 3: But you can say it like this though in a
short period of time they are legit one in one
for the ultimate prize and division.
Speaker 2: I can further say I'm much more interested in the
Benavitez fight, younger, faster.
Speaker 3: Okay, don't take me don't don't get me wrong. I
agree with you. If you said Rayfaiel or TJ or
both of us. You know we're the committee and you
can decide which fight you and I would be yunanus,
we boast do nothing to see better be a. I
mean to see Bevo and David Benavitez next, But you
can't get mad about a third fight that that's at
that level.
Speaker 4: You just you know what I mean.
Speaker 3: So I I mean, I've seen all the Looney tunes
calling this outright duck, and I just don't buy that
because Dmitri BiVO has.
Speaker 1: No duck would imply that he doesn't want to fight
him at all, and I.
Speaker 4: Don't, which I don't believe.
Speaker 1: I don't think that's the case exactly.
Speaker 2: So do you buy into my theory that I've floated
that Benavidez will go have a title defense as the
elevated champion and Bivol if he's successful, and I believe
he will be in a better be of rematch, will
fight him next, and it'll be for undisputed.
Speaker 1: Do you buy that? I kind of.
Speaker 3: I think that's I do think there's a good possibility
that he might fight him next. The undisputed part, I'm
a little bit fuzzy on when I say that, because
even though the WBC was ordered and now Benavidez is elevated,
they really weren't the next ones in line. The WBC
kind of cut the line in front of the IBF.
We I mean, look, I'm not saying that the IBF
mandatory is Michael Eeiffer. I'm not saying that I'm going
to advocate that he should get the title shot. But
the rules are the rules, so if you're gonna got
to live and die by them. So anyway, if my
only caveat is it might not be undisputed, they still
might do the fight. The other thing about it is this,
and this has sort of been lost in this whole conversation,
not just between you and me, but in the boxing
twitter sphere in the first place, David ben Aviez is
coming back to fight this summer. From everything I am
told by everybody involved with Dimitri people, he's not going
to be available to fight this summer. He's dealing with
some injuries and is not going to be ready to
till the fall fight with better BF. They're going to
probably do the match sometime in October, around the beginning
of the read Season festival for the next one, so
he would not be available to fight David July August.
So David doesn't want to sit around and not do anything.
So that was one of the reasons why I never
believe this was gonna happen, because people said in the
ring he was dealing with some injuries. I talked to
his people. He is dealing again. It's nothing like major
it's not going to end his career, but he's not
going to be prepared to go back into a tough
training camp to be ready to fight, you know, July
August whatever. It's simple as that from a physical standpoint.
So it is what it is. I mean, belts get stripped,
belts get vacated all the time. I think the way
that the WBC when they announced it, you know, Mauricio Suliman. Look,
I'm not gonna dog him about it, but the way
that he posted on social media about the title being vacated.
He referenced the letter that that Dimitri's attorney, Patrick English
wrote to the WBC, and he called it cold and impersonal,
Like I feel like Mauricio took it a little bit
personal when it's business, you know what I mean. And
I can appreciate his emotion. I appreciate his passion, but
I feel like it was a little bit slightly misplaced
in the end. Ben A VID's can at least say,
you know what, I was the number one guy for
a long time at super middleweight. Canello wouldn't fight me.
Now I'm the guy at light heavyweight, and Bevo wouldn't
fight me at least for the time being. And he
does have that. And meanwhile, he'll go about his career.
He'll make great matchups. He'll look awesome. In the fight
against David Morel was a terrific fight, and that's what
I expect. And we'll see him back sometime this summer.
Maybe he'll be fighting against Anthony Yard, maybe he'll be
fighting against Callum Smith, maybe somebody else. But David's got
business to do and I do hope that down the road,
the guy that wins the fight fights. David Benavidez as
Samson Lukowitz, who is David's promoter, said to me, where
one phone call away. You guys go do your business,
and whoever wins give me a call.
Speaker 1: All right.
Speaker 2: A couple of other things. Sad news that Hall of
Fame trainer Kenny Adams passed away earlier this week at
the age of eighty four. Tell me more about this
because he was obviously part of the massive nineteen eighty
four Olympic team, but much more with that, so go ahead, Dan.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Kenny was a cool guy. I mean Kenny he
always acted a lot younger than he was. I mean
he died this week. He was eighty four years old.
Awesome trainer, good guy. I knew Kenny for many many years.
Always got on great with him, good with the stories.
But you know, you know, cool I call him. He
was like the cool cat, right comes with the backward
baseball hat or the hat you know he's wearing the earring.
Just a just a cool guy in that respect, very
very easy going in that sense, which was opposite of
way he dealt with the fighters because he was known
because his background he's a Vietnam veteran, was in the
Army for years, and you know, was a very disciplinary,
disciplinarian type of coach, not wouldn't be considered like in parlance,
a player's coach, if you know what I mean. Kenny
was the guy like, you come in my gym, you
ne fucking things my way or the highway. And it
worked with a lot of guys because he trained like
twenty five twenty six world champions. First made his no,
you know, well he was in the on the army.
He trained the Army boxing team. After he was out
of the service, but he became the assistant coach or
one of the assistant coaches for the incredible nineteen eighty
four United States Olympic team that won eleven medals. Yeah,
oh my god, that had you know, that was a
Vander Holyfield, Pernel Whittaker, Meldrick Taylor, Tyrrell Biggs, Mark Briel,
and Virgil Hill. Just an awesome team. So he was
the assistant coach on that team eleven medals, nine gold.
Then he was elevated and promoted to become the head coach,
first black head coach of Team USA boxing team for
the nineteen eighty eight Olympics who won eight medals, three
goals and had I don't know you might have heard
of these guys, TJ. Roy Jones, Riddick Bow, Ray Mercer, Kenny,
Michael Carperhall, like everybody had just mentioned made the Hall
of Fame except Ray Mercer. And even though he didn't
make the Hall of Fame, Ray Mercer was a hell
of a heavyweight in his day. And so the way
the story goes is after the eighty eight Olympics were
over and top rank with Bob Aram, they had signed,
you know, Michael Carball and they were working with some
other guys in the Olympic team as well, and Bob
Aram spoke to Kenny and knew what the sort of
the relationships he had with the amateurs and said, you know,
you should consider maybe becoming a pro coach, and he
kind of liked that idea. And I think Bob's position was,
you know, that will help us sign some of these
guys because you know, we have a great relationship with Kenny,
and Kenny sort of liked the idea, and so in
nineteen eighty nine he relocated to Las Vegas and began
to train professional fighters and had all the stuff I
just mentioned you about what he did as an amateur
coach was would be enough to be considered, you know,
a top boxing person. But as a professional coach he
became one of the top trainers in the game.
Speaker 4: Now, in.
Speaker 3: His first ever world title, his first world champion. This
is nineteen eighty nine. He was training a fighter named
Renee Jacquot who won the WBC Junior middleweight title huge
upset on a decision over Donald Curry. The Ring magazine
picked it as the upset Year. But that was like,
that was one that was one of those fights a
lot of people kind of forget about if you think
about the guys he trained as a pro. I mean,
I'm gonna I've got a list right here in front
of me. I'm gonna run down a few guys. Some
of them were guys who was familiar with from working
with as the amateur coach. Ray Mercer, Kenny and McKinney
in particular, Kenny McKinnie, you know, won a world title.
Speaker 4: Was a hell of a fighter.
Speaker 1: Ray mer Memphis, Tennessee.
Speaker 4: Yes here you go.
Speaker 3: Ray was the WBO champion, even though at the time
nobody considered the WBO to be that legit. How about
these guys Chico Corrales, Johnny Mike McCallum, Freddy Norwood, Vince Phillips, Donido, Donair,
Edwin Valero, Frankie Lyles, Michael Nunn, Jorge Lenaris, al Cole,
Charles Murray, Eddie Cook, Samuel Peter for a short period
of time with Terrence Crawford. This was a guy who
trained everybody. So my my personal interactions with with with him,
I can still remember I covered a fight in New
Orleans back early in my days at USA today. The
main event was Roy Jones was defending the light heavyweight
title against Eric Harting and and uh and he had
Freddie Norwood, who at the time was the WBA featherweight
champion on the undercart. And Freddie was the biggest pain
in the ass of all time. He was just an
outright criminal in and out of you know, jail, and
just a nasty motherfucker, like you know, terrible individual, and
didn't make the weight for that fight, got stripped to
the title, ended up ended up losing to Derek Gainer
on that on that night. Uh, just you know, just
I just remember like that, that's that the pandemonium he
caused that whole week and just being a real prick.
And I went over to Kenny at one point and
I was like, Kenny, what's up with this guy? And Kenny,
like you know, had the he had his glass on.
He kind of looked down and peered, I'm looking at
I'm doing the imitation. He like peered over the glass
and now I'm like a foot taller than Kenny, right,
so he peers, but he's looking up at me and
he just shakes his head. He goes, what the fuck
do you want from me? Like like that's.
Speaker 1: What was letting you know. I know, you know, and
I know and you know that I know now.
Speaker 3: So he was dealing with like a ludic the fact
that he was able to get Freddie as far as
he got him.
Speaker 4: I like it kind of a miracle. But yeah, so yeah,
I was.
Speaker 3: I was sad to see that he was, Uh, he
was just a good dude and wrote like what people say,
a box a real boxing guy.
Speaker 2: And and by the way, you do such a tremendous job.
Let me prop you whenever you write about these guys
in their passing or as you just did for the
last two or three minutes, because for a great many
of people, they don't know that name, and they should
know that name for what you just shared. And this
is why the nostalgia is great on our podcasts with
everything that you that you went over.
Speaker 1: Let's it's all say.
Speaker 3: This though, a lot of people did know about him
because if for no other reason, he did get elected
to the and inducted last year into the International Boxing
All the Fame. And I'll say this one or thing
before we move on to this.
Speaker 1: How just curiousity, how long had you been voting for him?
Speaker 3: Because I was just gonna say he had been on
the ballot for a number of years. I had consistently
voted him for him in the in the non participant category.
I couldn't tell the exact number of years, but a
long time. And so I was really actually thrilled when
he did get elected last year.
Speaker 4: You know, he was eighty three, eighty four. You don't
have much, that's right.
Speaker 3: And I'm always of the opinion, if you're gonna put
these guys in the Hall of Fame, at least let
them be alive to go and enjoy the actulation. Take
their families there, be with their friends, be with their
old boxing people, and take it all in because it's
such a beautiful honor. So I was glad at the
very least that Kenny was alive still to see the
day because House, how much would that suck if he
got elected this year died? And now the inductions are
coming up in a couple of months in June, you know,
in a few months.
Speaker 2: Ye, So, but rip for Kenny Adams and USA Boxing.
Then later on with a lot that was quite a
list of big time fighters and championship fighters, one more
nugget than some nostalgia. Most Valuable Promotions MVP has the
Katie Taylor Amanda Serrano trilogy fight coming up, and they
have now signed several more prominent weinbers fighters and they've
added them to this card, several of them to this car.
Speaker 1: So go ahead real quick.
Speaker 3: So you know, we talked, I think we talked about
it on the show. Recently, they had signed Lisa Bombgarner,
who was the undisputed junior lightweight world champion. They announced
that and they announced she's fighting a fighter named Jennifer Miranda,
and so, as it turns out, she also was one
of the ones that was announced this week as a signing.
But before they got to Miranda, it was not that
long between the time they announced the bomb Gardner's signing
and then the ones they did this week, they also
would announced that they had signed a bunch of other
female boxers. Tina Thorisland who was the Unified A Women's
bandamweight champion, ram La Ali who was an olympian who's
got some notar riders. She had been with Mattroom. They
signed her. She was a free agent. They signed a
couple of prospect types, so okay, they just signed bomb
Garner plus these other handful of fighters, five other women.
So now this week, earlier this week, they went to
New York City and they did the press conference, like
the kickoff press commence first Serrano and Taylor's third fight,
which will take place at they did the press conference
at Madison Square Garden. The fight will be at the
garden where they had their first fight, will take place
on July eleventh on Netflix, and it's going to be
an all women's card. And so they announced not only
do they have the two main event fighters there to
do their thing, but they also announced saw a bunch
of other signings that they did. So now, in addition
to the ones I mentioned, they have signed the WBO
IBF Jingior featherweight champion Elie Scottney from England. They signed
the IBF bantamweight champion, Shiretta Metcalf, They signed the WBA
Interim featherweight champion which I mentioned, Jennifer Miranda, and they
sign an undefeated woman from Nigeria named Elizabeth Ashoba, who
was supposed to be like a really outstanding up and
comer in women's boxing. So a bunch of those fighters
are going to be on the card. You're gonna see.
Scottney is gonna be in a three delt unification against
EMF Mercado from Mexico. That's actually like, I'm the women's
boxing connoisseur where I know everything about women's boxing, but
when I saw that was a fight.
Speaker 1: On paper, on paper, that was.
Speaker 3: That was a good That was a good fight. And
then Thorsland, who they signed who has been an excellent
female boxer for a long time out of Denmark but
doesn't really get a lot of attention in America, but
she's about to because she's really good. She's fighting Metcalf,
who's the other woman that they signed, and that's a
three dolt unification in the bandeweit division. So you got
the undisputed title at forty in the main event, which
is obviously the one we all know about. You got
Bombgarder defending the undisputed thirty in the co feature, and
then you got two other three dolt unifications on the undercard.
I mean, it's I'm not going on a limb here
by and I'm not trying to hype it, but it
just is what it is. It's easily the biggest women's
card in the history of.
Speaker 2: And look and as much as we sling arrows at
Jake Paul and thank god the NCAA tournament is over
for all of those ads on Turner for the Paul
American Show with he and his brother that they've got
on Max. That's a new reality show. He made a
commitment that we are going to upgrade and legitimize and
pay correctly women's boxing, and here you're seeing proof of that.
And Amanda Serrano talked about this in and around the
fight last summer in Tampa when the Tyson fight didn't happen,
that this would be coming, that the developmental part of
it and women getting the bigger opportunities would be coming.
And now you're seeing it a year later with all
these signings and with this fighting. Again, they're not paying
us to say this, it's just rather obvious with what
they're doing.
Speaker 1: They followed through. We're signing all these fighters.
Speaker 3: I don't know if all of them are going to
pan out to what they think. You know, these are
the ones who are there.
Speaker 2: But isn't it fair to say this is going to
be the biggest stage for many of them and the
most money they've made. And that is that is following
through for Nikisa Baderian and MVP and Jake Paul and
Amanda Serrano. They followed through with what they've been talking about.
Speaker 4: That's all I'm with.
Speaker 3: They signed some of the best women out there, and
I'll tell you uh to me, I mean, Bombgarner's a
well known fighter. We all knew she was a free agent.
They've been angling this way for a while. Didn't surprising
at all that they signed her. I didn't necessarily think
that they were going to go a whole hog, so
to speak, and sign up all these other rights women,
especially you're going to go to Europe and get a
bunch of these ladies also. But the one that sort
of jumped out to me, who's the goods in my opinion,
and I've seen a bunch of fights, and that's stores line.
She can really fucking fight. There, I go, that's impressive,
and she's in and again she's in a three bill unification,
which which adds to the stakes. It'd be cool to
just to see her on an American card in the
first place, much less, you know, taking on you know,
another another champion.
Speaker 2: So I like that, all right, Nostalgia time. Let's go
back in time to thirty three years ago on Wednesday,
April the ninth, nineteen eighty eight, when Evander Holyfield on
the rise. You mentioned Kenny Adams, the late Kenny Adams,
who had been with Evander and USA boxing. So Evander
now is a pro, and Evander moves up and Evander
eventually here would become undisputed cruise away.
Speaker 1: But he became the.
Speaker 2: Unified Cruise aweight champion April ninth, nineteen eighty eight against
Carlos dal leone wax nostalgic please.
Speaker 3: Yeah, this was the undisputed fight. Totlyfield had won the
WBA title in a classic like the one of the
great fifteen rounders, you know, one of the one of
the last great fifteen rounders. In boxing against White Mohammed Kawi.
That was a spectacular fight. And then he went about
the project, if you will, of picking up those titles
one at a time, and he had to go through
you know, this is the three belt the era. Like
I said, he won the fight, the epic fight against
Kawie that was in July of eight, July eighty six,
a few fights late. He's fighting all these fights. After
the Kawi fight, he was fighting regularly on showtime main events,
was bringing along a lot of the eighty four Olympians
that were his teammates. He thought, Ricky, Parky, he won
the IBF titles. Now he's unified the two of them.
And the last step in the process was the WBA
rather the WBC title. That was against Carlos da Leon
and they cook that fight on and everybody kind of
knew that if he wins the fight, the anders is
going to move up to heavyweight and pursue what his
real dream and goal was was to be the heavyweight champion.
And so this fight took place, as you mentioned, on
April ninth, nineteen eighty eight. They did the fight at
Caesar's Palace and Allifield looked really good. In the fight
and he knocked out Carlos da Lyon, who was the underdog,
fair enough, but he knocked Hi out in the eighth
round and became the first ever undisputed cruiserweight champion. There
hasn't been now granted three belt era, but if you
go through the history of the cruiserweights, which was created
in like what the late nineteen seventies, early nineteen eighties
by the very you know, and then all the organizations
ended up adopting it. Who were the other undisputed champions
you had? You had a John O'Neil Bell became the
undisputed champion, yet Alexander Usik became the undisputed champion, but
Holyfield was the first and then moved up to heavyweight
and you know, became the undisputed heavyweight champ, and that
was like a pretty big deal. And so when Usik
did what he did, Usik's goal from the time he
turned pro, and he actually had said this to me
an interview one time that his boxing idol was a
Vander Holyfield. I want to be the undisputed champ like
holy Field, and then I want to do what he did,
which has become the undisputed heavyweight champ, but he had
a little bit tougher because he had to do four belts,
not three. But Holyfield is so well known for his
exploits in the heavyweight division, the Riddick Bow trilogy, the
Tyson fights, George Foreman fight, and many other the Lennox
Lewis two fights, plenty of fights that he had that
were great fights in the heavyweight division, that his history
as a cruiserweight is sometimes forgotten about by a lot
of people, and they don't think about the Cowie fight,
and they don't think about how he ran through the
other champions pretty easily to become undisputed. So that was
something that I feel like, you know what, Evander Holyfield
gets a lot of attention because of the greatness of
his heavyweight part of his career, but the cruiserweight part
of his career is kind of left in the dust
by a lot of people. So just a little quick
look back on that.
Speaker 2: And then you move forward in our nostalgia timeline to
twenty one years ago on Thursday, as we do this
Thursday into Friday, April the tenth of two thousand and four,
this is Lamont Brewster and Vladimir Klitchko with Brewster scoring
a shocking knockout win to get the WBO's vacant heavyweight title. Also,
it was an HBO doubleheader, right, Corey Spinks and zab Judah.
We just talked about zab Juda and the anniversary with
Floyd Mayweather and the Mayhem and the ring for that
fight off the weekend. Now we got another anniversary involving
zab Judah. Hear from two thousand and four, and you
were there for all of this April tenth, two thousand
and four.
Speaker 3: So Leimon Brewster was a good American heavyweight but was
a massive underdog.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 3: Leiman was a cool guy and had kind of come
up the hard way, but had really proven himself over
the previous few fights. And he gets the opportunity to
remember the wo title is vacant. Clitchkow had already been
knocked out by Corey Sanders. He had won two fights
post that that were non title fights, and now he's
back into a world title fight and match him with
Lemon Brewster. He's a significant underdog. It's at Mandalay Bay
and now he's going to try to become a champion
for the second time and he was beating Leiman Brewster
from pillar to post, as they say, beating the living
dog shit out of him for four and a half
plus rounds. He couldn't lay a glove on Clitchko, and
Clitchkow was battering the living shit out of him. And
to Laman Brewster's credit, what a fucking shin he showed.
He took everything a massive and I mean massive amount
of punishment. And then for reasons that to my that
to my knowledge, are still yet to be You're still
unexplained to the most degree.
Speaker 4: Klitchko.
Speaker 3: You know, he got tagged a couple of times in
uh you know, in that fifth round, but nothing that
was like earth shattering. He basically just ran out of gas.
He fell on the canvas gasping. I can still remember.
I was sitting ringside. I'm like five feet from the ring,
and he's the way he is just sort of facing
the press area and he's fucking gasping for breath, Like
what is going on?
Speaker 1: Like get hurt him?
Speaker 3: Not just he was like I think he was sort
of like, what's the what is it when you hyperventilate
or something like that? He just couldn't control his breathing.
He just completely gassed out and he went down. I
don't even think he got knocked down with an actual punch,
but the referee counted would have been good if that
was what happened in the Roach and h Tank Davis fight.
Uh And he like literally could barely get up and
the fight was over and Laman Brewster had just pulled
off this monumental upset to win the title and it
was shocking. Now, later Vladimir, who's always been a sportsman,
but he was not in this particular instance, he blamed
the cutman for rubbing too much grease on him, like
it clogged up his pores or something. And you know,
he was making a lot of different excuses like there
was he got poisoned. I mean, it was a real
he just had a he had he had to find
an alabi to make an excuse for what happened. Now, eventually,
like years, a couple of years later, he fought Brewster
in a rematch. This is when Brewster's eye was messed
up and he was nowhere what he once was, and
he just pummeled him and got him out of the
real quick to avenge the loss. But this was at
the time a massively debilitating loss, because keep in mind
he'd already gotten knocked the fuck out by Corey Sanders
in the second round that cost him the WBO title,
And that was the you know, if you remember HBO
showcasing that fight, you know the comment from Larry Larry
Merchant when the knock happened. He was basically saying to
the like, Vladimir is done. You know, the next big
thing is now the last great bust. I mean, it
was the derision piled on top of him. Even his
own brother Batally clitch Go, after he lost the Brewster fight,
told him he should retire. And so I will tell
the story about having talked to Vladimir years later before whatever.
I would every time he would fight, I would do
you know, interviews with him from his training camp wherever
he was, and you know, in the in the in
the Alps, somewhere in Germany and Switzerland where he was training,
and we had this conversation one time. I forget what
fight he was training for, but he's in the camp
and he's telling me, like, guys, you know what he
been doing. He's been watching videos to like, you know,
prepare for the fights. So in my mind I'm like, okay,
he's either watching his opponent or he's watching, you know,
his own fights or whatever. Or sometimes guys go back
and the watch guys they like to watch, you know,
Sugar Ray, Leonard Mohammad, Ali, Foyd Mayweather, whoever strikes their
fancy and so Clitcho always like, no, I'm not watching
any of those fights. He said, what do you mean?
He says, I'm watching my loss to Leimann Brewster. I
watched every training camp. I watched all the time motivation. Yeah,
so why are you losing? Why are you watching that fight?
Because he felt so bad after that fight that he
was left for dead. He was on the scrap heap
of the heavyweight Disney. You have to understand how low
you couldn't be any lower the amount of hype that
he had gold medalists in the Olympics, had already won
a world title, but had now been stopped a couple
of times, and now he gets stopped by Brewster in
an embarrassed, frankly an embarrassing way. It wasn't like even
got caught and drilled. He just fucking ran out of
gas and then blamed everybody but himself or what happened.
Speaker 4: Now.
Speaker 3: The one thing that was good that came of that
situation is that when he lost the fight to Brewster,
it was his first fight with Emmanuel Stewart as his trainer.
What he didn't do was get rid of everybody. He
made some changes, but he kept the manual. A lot
of guys would. That didn't work out. You're gone, but
they forged a relationship. He brought him back. They had
a trust in each other. He listened, he learned, He
got better defensively. More importantly, because Emmanuel was creative a
trainer as he was, was even better as a psychologist.
He got his mind right, and from there he went
on a historic run where he didn't lose for ten
fucking years. Because after he lost against Leiman Brewster, he
won three fights in a row, including the Samuel Peter
fight the first time where he got knocked down three
times but was able to get off the deck and
not lose this composure. He won that fight that was
the eliminator. Next fight, he beats Chris Bird for the
IBF title, and then he goes on the historic run
and makes you know what, eighteen defenses and holds the
title for you know nine and a half years, and
you know, was in the top two or three in
terms of how long he held the title, number of defenses,
with guys like Larry Holmes and Joe Lewis. Ended up
making more heavyweight title appearances than anybody who ever walked
the face of the earth twenty nine heavyweight championship fight appearances.
But it wouldn't have happened if it wasn't for the
Layman Brewster fight losing, because he said, I never wanted
to feel that way again, so I kept it with
me all the time. He had in his office the
gloves that he wore in the fight to remind him
after the fight was over.
Speaker 2: That I mean, that is seriously obsessing and about the
motivating part of I don't ever want to go through
this again.
Speaker 3: If my memory is correct, he at some point he
runs into Sam Simon, who was Leman Brewster's manager. I
think there he was out in California. They run into
each other, they speak to each other, and he and
maybe it was Brewster that was with him or the
manager gives him the business card, and on the business card,
you know, it's his phone numbers, emailers, contact information, but
the picture on the other side of the business card
is a Brewster standing over Klitschkow when he's on the mat,
and Clipscow didn't even take like offense. He kept the
business card. He told me he would keep the business
card in his gym bag every time he went to
the gym to work out, to prepare to spar to
do whatever, and that one day he was going to
get him to sign that business card if they ever
got to have a rematch, And he carried that with him,
for that is tremendous.
Speaker 2: That is tremendous nostalgia all off of this loss that
we're talking about.
Speaker 3: And then he did, he did beat him in the
rematch in Germany. And there's a picture and I wrote
about this for ESPN back several years ago, where there's
a photo that he had taken that Vladimir sent me
so I could use it in the piece where it's
him and Brewster standing with each other and he's holding
up the business card and they both have smiles. I mean,
because look, they're good guys. Brewster was always a cool guy.
Vladimir has always been a gentleman. But I've never I've
been doing this for such a long time, I've never
heard I mean, I've heard fighters use losses as motivation
a thousand times, a million times. I've never heard ever
anybody that I've ever talked to who was a fighter
talk about it with that deepness. I'm never gonna fucking
forget how I felt.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna watch if you have the framed gloves hanging
in your office or in your area, if you have
a card with a picture of you losing, that is
next level.
Speaker 1: That's two levels up.
Speaker 4: Now.
Speaker 3: Most of the guys they'll have in their office the
gloves where they won, the title of their robe, or
their trunks or theirs whatever. He had the gloves that
he lost, and he's, by the way, he's in training
camp in the fucking Alps. It's like two weeks before
the fight, and instead of like you know, he's watching
videos of his own demise of getting knocked the fuck.
Speaker 1: Out and it helped him become who he became.
Speaker 2: That's tremendous on that, all right, real quick, Corey Spinks,
zab Judah your ringside on the double header for that
same night, back to April the tenth, two thousand and four, anything.
Speaker 3: This was a hell of This was a hell of
a double header by the way, this would be pay
per view today one hundred percent. So, uh, Cory Spinks
had defeated and what what some people thought it was
an upset I was not. I didn't think it was upset.
He defeated Ricardo my Orga to unify this again three
belt era. He unified the titles to become the undisputed champion.
He outboxed Ricardo my Orga. I've told the story about
going on the press tour to Philadelphia on the bus
for the press conference, sitting with Don King, and Don's
asking me, Hey, what do you think because this was
one of the main fights on that card there was
headlined by Bernard Hopkins against William Joppi, which was another
undisputed title fight in the middleweight division in this particular case,
And he's like, what do you think? I said, well,
I mean, I don't know why he made the fight
because Ray Orga was becoming a big ticket seller and
a popular figure in Spinx was a really good fighter
and had the name because his father was Leon Spinks
his uncle was Michael Spinks, but he was not the
most exciting fighter in the world anything. But frankly, I
was like, well, Spink's gonna beat him, and I thought,
Don must have turned like six shades of gray when
I said that, And sure enough he goes and he
beats him on the decision, you know, to win the
to become the industry of champs. So when his first defense,
this is what this was, He's taken on Zab Judah,
formidable guys Zab only had at this time, he only
had the one defeat, and Corey Spinks went in the
ring and just dazzled the outboxed the guy. Now he
ultimately Judah later got the revenge when they met in
a rematch that took place in Saint Louis. In fact,
both of the fights on this card Brewster Klitschko as
well as Judah and Sphinx. They both were the first
fights of what became two fight series where the result
was reversed in the rematch. But in terms of of
this fight, look that was Corey Spinks probably at his best.
I mean, he looked probably even better in this fight
than he did when he defeated Ricardo my Orga.
Speaker 4: So he retained.
Speaker 3: They actually went on a pretty good run because not
only did he beat my Orga for the title, he
then beat Judah to retain. He had another defense against
Miguel Angel Gonzalez in the next fight. Then he met
up with Judah in the rematch, and not only did
he lose, but he got knocked down in front of
his home crowd. But on this particular night, Corey Spinks
was the fucking man. He knocked Judah down in the
eleventh round. Judah knocked him down in the twelfth round,
but it did not impact the scoring because obviously they
offset each other and it was close. I'm looking at
the scores. It was one fourteen to one twelve on
two score cards in favor of Corey. Spinks won sixteen
to one eleven on the third card. But as Corey
Spinks fights go, and if you watch any Cory Spinks fight,
he probably went to sleep quite easily on a lot
of them. This was actually a pretty good fight, and
there was some drama and there was a lot of
stakes obviously, and this was not even like the main
fight of the show that created the most memories and
the most drama because of what happened when Klitchkow had
the big loss against Bruser. So that was a Helma fight.
Bandala Bay event Center really good show.
Speaker 1: All right, so we've given you a bunch again.
Speaker 2: We circle back that Jiron Ennis and Stanionis will fight
for the Unified Welterweight Championships and the match Room dessone
show in Atlantic City. I've given you the good preview
on that and the rest of that card, some news,
some nostalgia. By the way, we did the bet Us
show that normally comes on Friday, as we release the
podcast back on Wednesdays, if you want to watch us
handicap the main event in the co feature fight with
Raymond Ford, you can see that it is archived. It's
on the YouTube platform on the Twitter platform of bet us,
and watch us more on that.
Speaker 1: Again.
Speaker 2: I got to keep all of this straight that we
still got the weekend to go here in the fight
to go on Saturday night. Whatever happens, you and I
will come back and recap that fight card and then
coming next week. Coming next week, we are making efforts
behind the scenes. I'm not gonna reveal it, but next
week's the fortieth anniversary of the wildest, most violent three
rounds ever forty years of Haggler. Hearns that we've been reminiscing,
so we're going to do something in and around that
view and me speaking of nostalgia, just stand by for
that that fortieth anniversary.
Speaker 1: Other than that, are you ready for the weekend?
Speaker 2: You're ready for Ennis and Stanionis and whatever we're about
to see here in Atlantic City.
Speaker 4: You're good, I'm ready. I don't know. I'm not the
one that asked to fight.
Speaker 2: We are not taking the punches. Okay, So there we
go for Saturday again. Follow subscribe on this podcast feed.
We preview going into the weekend. We recap coming off
the weekend for Dan Rayphiel. I'm merely TJ.
Speaker 1: Reeves.
Speaker 2: Thank you for being with us on the Big Fight
Weekend Preview