Speaker 1: Whole k Are and cast can't catch a trick Warrington Wolves.
Speaker 1: They laid it on thick, fighting hard until the final
Speaker 1: bell were Catalans, York and Bradford as well. Players dropping
Speaker 1: like flies. Each match is player Welfare currently up to
Speaker 1: scratch as Huddersfield hopes of a win. Tucker Dive, Luke
Speaker 1: Robinson got his p forty five who left c beat
Speaker 1: Leeds for their boss. Lee and John are here with
Speaker 1: the Goss. Welcome to the fourteenth episode of Super League
Speaker 1: three sixty, a podcast primarily designed to show off my
Speaker 1: poetry and also to talk about the top tier of
Speaker 1: British rugby league. My name is Lee Addison.
Speaker 2: And my name is John David. He sure had a
Speaker 2: bit of a clip a clip The WiFi in South
Speaker 2: Yorkshire is sort of the best.
Speaker 1: I'm also the host of the Rugby League Coach podcast
Speaker 1: and feature on the Loose Carry podcast from Zero Tackle
Speaker 1: and a coach in Australia John Ajourno in the UK.
Speaker 1: Please read the description of this podcast or listen to
Speaker 1: old ones so we can make this long intro shorter.
Speaker 1: The podcast being aired on the Assage Rugby League, Rugby
Speaker 1: League Coach and podcast platforms as well as the Rugby
Speaker 1: League Coach YouTube, so if you subscribe to those you
Speaker 1: won't miss a thing. Also thanks to Rugby League dot
Speaker 1: com who are taking our podcast after the Whoter this week.
Speaker 1: Thank you for your support of that which we do
Speaker 1: straight after a fixture. It will be after Thursday's fixture
Speaker 1: which I believe is cast versus Bradford. But the big
Speaker 1: news straight off the top, John Luke Robinson sacked at
Speaker 1: Huddersfield this afternoon. It's been a big day. It's been
Speaker 1: a big day.
Speaker 2: It's been a big day. Yeah, that news came through
Speaker 2: what was it just checking exactly the hour? About four
Speaker 2: or five hours ago, six hours ago, should I say?
Speaker 2: Luke Robinson terminated as head coach. He took over twenty
Speaker 2: twenty four after Ian Watson was also dismissed and Huddersfield
Speaker 2: have lost all five games so far this season, the
Speaker 2: only team to have not won a game. In a way,
Speaker 2: not surprising that they have gotten rid of Robinson, but
Speaker 2: in a way also a little bit surprise surprising because
Speaker 2: they've got sixteen players out injured. They've got a huge
Speaker 2: injury crisis and Huddersfield as a club, you know, I
Speaker 2: mean we can talk about in depth, but they have
Speaker 2: been they haven't been unleashed for a long long time, really,
Speaker 2: Lee and they're saying they're unleashed. But yeah, there's big
Speaker 2: problems off the field as well as on the field
Speaker 2: for Huddersfield.
Speaker 1: Well, if you're wondering what John is going on about,
Speaker 1: he's talking about the words of Ralph Rimmer, their director
Speaker 1: of change at Huddersfield, and I think the only thing
Speaker 1: he has changed so far is what he's done today,
Speaker 1: which is a coach and he's a quote. We have
Speaker 1: been resetting the club. We've set up about that prior
Speaker 1: to Christmas, driving the club forward off the field, but
Speaker 1: critically we need some on field success as well. A
Speaker 1: fantastic man, Luke Robinson a legend of this club and
Speaker 1: will remain so. But nevertheless, this set of circumstances has
Speaker 1: brought about this change.
Speaker 2: Close quotes.
Speaker 1: Look, John, I understand what people say about the injuries,
Speaker 1: but like I've said before on this podcast, I had
Speaker 1: nausey and a lot of that can be down to
Speaker 1: the coach as well. Luke Roberson is a fantastic bloke.
Speaker 1: I was at wigging with him. He really is a
Speaker 1: good lad. He was a young kid coming through then
Speaker 1: and full of energy for the game, and I don't
Speaker 1: think that energy has diminished in any way, shape or form.
Speaker 1: But unfortunately, I honestly believe that he was out of
Speaker 1: his depths as a coach. And I mean defensively, Huddersfield
Speaker 1: just don't look like they've been coached so far. That's
Speaker 1: me being critical from an analytical point of view. There'll
Speaker 1: be so many things you and I don't know, but
Speaker 1: you did hint. I think there John, there's all the
Speaker 1: things going on at the club that could be contributing
Speaker 1: to their malays right now.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I haven't. I was looking actually just
Speaker 2: recapping before record. I wrote a piece in twenty nineteen
Speaker 2: about you know, issues at Huddersfield and you know how
Speaker 2: they've really the Super leagu era at least, they've they've
Speaker 2: not really achieved anything. They won the League Leaders Shield
Speaker 2: in twenty thirteen under Paul Anderson, you know, and even
Speaker 2: even when they were you know, top of the league
Speaker 2: then and doing really well, they never had a big
Speaker 2: fan base and they haven't won you know, a premiership
Speaker 2: or the Challenge Cups since I think it was the
Speaker 2: fifties and the sixties and they had the golden period
Speaker 2: I think was in the twenties. So they've been a
Speaker 2: club that's never really won a lot, but in the
Speaker 2: Super League era, yeah, they've They've gone through something like
Speaker 2: I think it's five to six coaches in the last
Speaker 2: nine years, and Luke Robinson was obviously interim for a
Speaker 2: bit and then you know he's later was made Perman
Speaker 2: twenty twenty four. But they've had Rick Stone, they had
Speaker 2: Simon Wolford, they had Chris Norman as an interim coach,
Speaker 2: ad Ian Watson, and it just seems to be like
Speaker 2: a culture problem at the club, you know, a leadership problem.
Speaker 2: They're a very closed off club. They don't do a
Speaker 2: lot of media, a lot of engagement. Their crowds have
Speaker 2: just gone down and down, so you really question how
Speaker 2: much you know, engagement the community they do. They've got
Speaker 2: stadium issues. They want to move to Halifax, but you
Speaker 2: sort of wonder how that's going to just move into
Speaker 2: a small stadium is going to help them. You know,
Speaker 2: are their fans in Huddersfield going to travel with Halifax.
Speaker 2: I know it's not far, but that never really seems
Speaker 2: to work. And they've just sort of had the same
Speaker 2: leadership there for a long long time. Obviously, Richard Doilis
Speaker 2: is the manjor director, but you never really hear from
Speaker 2: him or see from him. The recruitment over the years
Speaker 2: has been terrible and while their academy have actually turned
Speaker 2: their academy around and have produced a few good players
Speaker 2: in recent years, but generally they've lost them or they've
Speaker 2: gone to other clubs. So I mean Dom Young it's
Speaker 2: probably the best example, and you know he's he's been
Speaker 2: great for the Knights in the NRL. Jake Wardle, you know,
Speaker 2: has one numerous trophies at Wigan and Price Will Price
Speaker 2: obviously he went down to the NRL, didn't do well
Speaker 2: at Newcastle Preserve, at Holly of C. They just can't
Speaker 2: seem to build anything. So you know, they've recycled through
Speaker 2: coach after coach, nothing really happens. They did have a
Speaker 2: good period at the start when I Watson came over
Speaker 2: and they finished third and made the Change Cup final
Speaker 2: and I think it was twenty twenty two, but then
Speaker 2: that went downhill and then he got the Acts in
Speaker 2: two years ago, so it's just, yeah, it's just the
Speaker 2: same old story for Hardest Well nothing really seems to improve.
Speaker 1: I think if you put them in sunny and a
Speaker 1: sunnier climate and change the color of the seats at
Speaker 1: the stadium and put a Gold Coast Titans kit on,
Speaker 1: it'd be there'd be so many similarities, wouldn't they in
Speaker 1: terms of in terms of if you like a franchise
Speaker 1: that just seems to be constantly do And I think
Speaker 1: Rugby League clings on to Huddersfield a little bit because
Speaker 1: it's the birthplace of the game, but the reality is
Speaker 1: it probably hasn't ever really brought And this is going
Speaker 1: to sound horrible and Huddersfield fans might cancel us now,
Speaker 1: they might never listen to this podcast again. But they've
Speaker 1: not brought that much to Super League basically in thirty years.
Speaker 1: Quite frankly. If anything, they've brought more questions. They've brought
Speaker 1: more sadness or contemplation about their crowds and their performances.
Speaker 1: And I think back to the Huddersfield Sheffield merger, the
Speaker 1: ill fated merger. So there's just been one thing after
Speaker 1: another after another, and they're playing what was at the
Speaker 1: time a shining new stadium. I don't know how good
Speaker 1: it looks and fields now more still, so it was
Speaker 1: twenty five years old. Basically, I was there two weeks ago.
Speaker 2: It's nice, it's a nice stadium. But if you only
Speaker 2: get five thousand people turned up and it's what twenty
Speaker 2: two twenty four thousand capacity, it doesn't look or sound great.
Speaker 2: But the thing that you mentioned the birthplace of the
Speaker 2: rugby league, and that gets mentioned. The reality is it
Speaker 2: was only the birthplace of the rugby league because it
Speaker 2: was in between where all these clubs were meeting. Yeah
Speaker 2: they were coming from Lancashire and wherever, and yes, from Yorkshire.
Speaker 2: It wasn't you know the game didn't start in hospital
Speaker 2: because it was a stronghold of rugby league. I mean
Speaker 2: Huddersfield town. The local soccer club get a lot bigger grounds,
Speaker 2: so it's a football town. Basically it is a football town.
Speaker 2: And look there's a there is a rugby league fan
Speaker 2: base there and there are rugby league clubs there and
Speaker 2: it's obviously in an area of West Yorkshire where you've
Speaker 2: got Halifax and Leeds and you know Wakefield all relatively close.
Speaker 2: But it is more of a football town. But the
Speaker 2: thing is that they seem to be quite a backward club.
Speaker 2: To me, Huddersfield they don't really seem very modern, you know,
Speaker 2: they don't. I mean not that this is the Bill
Speaker 2: and end or, but they don't hold a media day
Speaker 2: at the start of the year. They do a sponsors
Speaker 2: thing and they invite three journos Son. They're never really trying.
Speaker 2: Like you're talking about crowds and marketing your team and
Speaker 2: your club, they don't really do much to actually, you know,
Speaker 2: try and engage and get publicity, and you know, you've
Speaker 2: got to do things if you want people to come
Speaker 2: and see your team. And it's not just about a
Speaker 2: winning team. I had Hardersfield saying that, you know, we
Speaker 2: want to It's like your team doesn't always win. You
Speaker 2: know that's reality. But you build connections, don't you with fans.
Speaker 2: You know, you go into schools, you get publicity, and
Speaker 2: you try and get attention and you build that relationship.
Speaker 2: And it just doesn't seem there are some die hard
Speaker 2: Huddersfield fans out there, but they're just there's clearly not
Speaker 2: enough of them.
Speaker 1: And I mean, we're going to talk soon about the
Speaker 1: potential for an NRL purchase and I think Huddersfield will
Speaker 1: be absolutely in the crossairs if if they're going to
Speaker 1: trim the competition again, you can tweet John because he
Speaker 1: loves tweeting Johnny. He just loves it at Johnny D Davidson.
Speaker 1: And I've pulled out a couple of the tweets that
Speaker 1: you've done in the last week. Which kit did you
Speaker 1: say was awful?
Speaker 2: I already get blamed that I having a genure against Lee,
Speaker 2: But yeah, the league kit that I wore against Wakefield
Speaker 2: was I might describe it, or I might just have
Speaker 2: a look at the highlights. Now, well you can have
Speaker 2: a look. It's kind of multi dotted red, white, black.
Speaker 2: But it reminds me of the vomit kid that the
Speaker 2: Socceros wore in nineteen ninety three, which you know, it
Speaker 2: looks like someone's thrown up and it's just a sorrow.
Speaker 2: It's just a personal preference. There's a bit of a
Speaker 2: nose coming from my phone while I look at the highlights. Look,
Speaker 2: we've got to be careful about criticizing kits. Remember a
Speaker 2: couple of weeks ago I said Wiggan's kit was awful
Speaker 2: to lose. Apparently that was because they were wearing a
Speaker 2: special kit for a young girl. That that you've been careled.
Speaker 1: And somebody emailed me and they said, I don't want
Speaker 1: to make you feel awfully, but I'm about to make
Speaker 1: you feel awful. But I appreciated it, and I did
Speaker 1: feel awful, and I do feel awful, and I forgot
Speaker 1: to mention it last week. But what I'm going to
Speaker 1: say back is I don't know if Wiggan made it
Speaker 1: clear that that widely, and I think if they're going
Speaker 1: to do something like that, they probably need to do
Speaker 1: it at home, not an away game to lose. Because
Speaker 1: I looked at the kit on the highlights, I didn't
Speaker 1: know the backstory. I looked at it thought that kid's awful.
Speaker 1: That's not Wigan. I used to work at Wigan, so
Speaker 1: I'm very conscious of what the color schemes.
Speaker 2: Are and whatnot.
Speaker 1: And my first instinct was that kit's awful. And then
Speaker 1: it turns out it was a tribute kit to a
Speaker 1: local young lady who's not been very well. So my
Speaker 1: love to that family and well done Wigan for doing that.
Speaker 2: But maybe to lose away wasn't the best option.
Speaker 1: So I'll look at the leak kit in the minute
Speaker 1: while you talk in a minute, while you talk about
Speaker 1: and we talk about the next tweet that I think
Speaker 1: you did on Saturday players dropping like flies brutal Nikola.
Speaker 1: Jane Lawson centers a question and said, as a quest
Speaker 1: of speed up the game impacted the Super League injury crisis,
Speaker 1: constant six agains leading to more pressure on joints and
Speaker 1: muscles with the twisting, turning and speed required constantly moving
Speaker 1: back from tackles, all for us not to have a
Speaker 1: cleaner ruck anyway, in my opinion, Billy Stead only matter
Speaker 1: of an hour ago, I think I said the standard
Speaker 1: officials in Super League right now, and the fact the
Speaker 1: six again rule is so different depending on who refts
Speaker 1: it and why it's so different game to game, I
Speaker 1: am huge, John. I keep injury stats every year. In
Speaker 1: the NRL, before Round three started there were fifty nine
Speaker 1: injured players, so that is three squads of nineteen plus one.
Speaker 1: I think if my master at maybe it was fifty eight.
Speaker 1: In the Super League it was eighty nine hundred players
Speaker 1: before round five.
Speaker 2: I think there was another probably another ten to add,
Speaker 2: at least probably in the last two days.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I said before round five, so add another
Speaker 1: ten and right, so right now, across our top competitions,
Speaker 1: our two top competitions. We've got the equivalent of eight
Speaker 1: squads out now. When is somebody who is paid good
Speaker 1: money at the top of the game in England or
Speaker 1: Australia going to start up to look at what we
Speaker 1: are doing to our players because we're obsessed with what
Speaker 1: happens above the neck. You get hit around the head,
Speaker 1: your SimBin sent off. It's the end of the world
Speaker 1: and you've stood down for a few weeks as a
Speaker 1: player if you've been hit around the head. But John,
Speaker 1: I have my moments where old football injuries come back
Speaker 1: to bite me. If I'd have played top level all
Speaker 1: my life, I have no doubt that right now I
Speaker 1: would really be struggling to walk, to do things, et cetera,
Speaker 1: et cetera. Everything below the neck has a mental impact
Speaker 1: as well, so it inadvertently impacts the above. The next scenario.
Speaker 1: We are treating our players like they are cattle. It's
Speaker 1: gone crazy now soon I'll let you mention your tweet
Speaker 1: in a moment. This is something I'm really passionate about, John.
Speaker 1: The game in England has obviously switched to six again
Speaker 1: rule and the faster rucks, and as I say, in England,
Speaker 1: I don't think the preseason is long enough. The season
Speaker 1: ends for so many well, first of all, it ends
Speaker 1: a week later than it does in the NRL, even
Speaker 1: though it starts a month or two earlier. We've also
Speaker 1: had the Ashes, and every year there's something international for
Speaker 1: England because the RFL needs to raise money, so our
Speaker 1: players don't get proper physical conditioning. In Australia, I think
Speaker 1: they do too much, and it's too brutal because of
Speaker 1: the amount of injuries that happened before the season. So
Speaker 1: I think somewhere in the middle is the answer. I've
Speaker 1: spoken about that on this podcast before. But ultimately, the
Speaker 1: one common denominator between the two competitions right now is
Speaker 1: the rock speed and the sixer games, and that goes
Speaker 1: to Billy's question about the refereeing and the interpretations, but
Speaker 1: also to Nicholas question about the physical aspects and the
Speaker 1: physical impacts of the players. So, John, I've had my
Speaker 1: little ramt. What say you?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I agree with you in part. I
Speaker 2: think the spinning of the rock you know, has surely
Speaker 2: had has been a factor. I think there are a
Speaker 2: number of factors, and you've got to I'm sort of
Speaker 2: careful not to lump everything down to one thing, because
Speaker 2: you know, two of the injuries I think in the
Speaker 2: in the Catalans game against Whole Car were concussions.
Speaker 1: You know, So John, John, I'm going to stop you
Speaker 1: right there. Concussions can be because you are fatigued without
Speaker 1: knowing you're fatigue and you've put.
Speaker 2: They can be And then you could say the hip
Speaker 2: drop on the Helan On host the s Helen's four
Speaker 2: the week before technique. Well yeah, but there was just
Speaker 2: you know, there are tired, Yeah, there's the games faster. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I mean but I think I think there are a
Speaker 2: number of factors and I think I think you are
Speaker 2: bang on about the preseason, the lack of rest. You know,
Speaker 2: the season is way too long, and you look at
Speaker 2: until you know wherever it was a couple of years ago,
Speaker 2: you know there was the Easter program where players would
Speaker 2: played two games in three days. Yeah, you know, and
Speaker 2: they were doing that to reason. I remember interviewing a
Speaker 2: number of Australian kiwis players that they just couldn't really
Speaker 2: believe it, but it was you know, pointed out, this
Speaker 2: is what we do here and blah blah blah. But
Speaker 2: it was just basically because they knew they would make
Speaker 2: more money in that weekend because they have games on
Speaker 2: public holidays where more people could attend. So the players
Speaker 2: there is no players union in the UK, so you know,
Speaker 2: the player welfare is almost non existent. But I think
Speaker 2: the preseason is a big thing that the shortness of it.
Speaker 2: They played way too many games in the UK. You know,
Speaker 2: the season started mid feb and the first Super Leagues
Speaker 2: that season started thirty years ago on the twenty nine
Speaker 2: till March, so somehow we've got like six weeks earlier.
Speaker 2: I looked at it.
Speaker 1: It was about two thousand, two thousand and one we
Speaker 1: started to creep it up basically. And there's also the
Speaker 1: Challenge Cup, you know, which is another tournament that doesn't
Speaker 1: exist there all. So yeah, we need and look, I
Speaker 1: think I think player loads, you know, I've had one coach,
Speaker 1: you know, commenting about another coach, you know, allegedly being
Speaker 1: quite bad with Maine managing training loads. There is a
Speaker 1: lack of depth, so you know, I think certain players
Speaker 1: probably have to play more games to carry teams than others. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's it's just not a good look and there definitely
Speaker 1: needs to be someone looking at it because you know,
Speaker 1: the product if it isn't already suffering, will suffer. And
Speaker 1: it's it's just not great.
Speaker 2: Yeah, players are breaking down a lot more so we
Speaker 2: need to look at we need to look at rest periods,
Speaker 2: and we need to look at what strength and conditioning
Speaker 2: he's doing. We need to look at you know, fixtures.
Speaker 2: You know they're supposed to be a mandatory. You know
Speaker 2: about how many minutes players can play this season? You know,
Speaker 2: is that don't need to be reduced. I think you know,
Speaker 2: there's lots of things we should be looking at. But yeah,
Speaker 2: it's not it's it's it is a real concern because
Speaker 2: every time, particularly this weekend and Super League, watch a
Speaker 2: game and you're like, okay, there's an injury, that guy's
Speaker 2: getting carried off. You know, Catlans, I think Catlans lost
Speaker 2: four players. I think it was during the game, as
Speaker 2: in you know, count in the field. And I think
Speaker 2: the NRL moving to the six main bench. I think
Speaker 2: that's a good idea. And I've been criticized by some
Speaker 2: in a row players, but I think that's a step forward.
Speaker 2: But yeah, it's it's a massive, massive concernly.
Speaker 1: Because they because they're dropping so much like flies in
Speaker 1: super League. It's smacks of underconditioning. Okay, so it would
Speaker 1: be like me and you go and playing super League.
Speaker 1: Now we would get injured in five minutes because we've
Speaker 1: not trained for the game. Well, no, we're not going
Speaker 1: to touch the ball for four minutes and forty no, no, no,
Speaker 1: I'm good. I do a bit of running. So so
Speaker 1: there's that that they definitely look under conditioned in in England.
Speaker 1: In Australia they look sometimes overconditioned. That you can't accuse
Speaker 1: the players of not being ready to play at the
Speaker 1: start of round one in many cases because they ultra
Speaker 1: fit over here. This constant effort to speed up the
Speaker 1: game is putting people inositions where they're fatigued. Like our
Speaker 1: question said, they're putting their heads in the wrong place,
Speaker 1: putting their limbs in the wrong place. And I was
Speaker 1: due to be on the Loose Carry podcast. Sorry, I
Speaker 1: am still on the Loose Carry podcast in a couple
Speaker 1: of hours from this recording, and Chad Townsend was going
Speaker 1: to be on there but apparently is not now. I
Speaker 1: was going to ask him because he's on the Rugby
Speaker 1: League Players Association. They need to get together and sort
Speaker 1: this out because I don't know any competition in the
Speaker 1: world where do some quick maths? Eight squads of thirty one?
Speaker 1: How many top flight teams as they? So there's fourteen
Speaker 1: top flight teams in the UK and there's seventeen in England.
Speaker 1: Is that thirty one? Seventeen in Australia. Yeah in Australia. Sorry, yeah,
Speaker 1: so thirty one. So eight of thirty one nearly one
Speaker 1: third of our top flight sports people, Yeah, are injured.
Speaker 1: And if we were having, I don't know, a big
Speaker 1: boxing match and one boxer was half injured, it would
Speaker 1: impact the event of the It would impact the event,
Speaker 1: wouldn't it right? And if the Premier League had one
Speaker 1: third of its players unavailable, there'd be less quality players
Speaker 1: playing in the Premier League, the Champions League, etc. I
Speaker 1: just think something has to change urgently because just because
Speaker 1: it's not getting the attention that head knocks get, it's
Speaker 1: really scary. Johnny's jab this week. People who think increasing
Speaker 1: the salary cap in England won't stop players going to
Speaker 1: the NRL talk about that.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I was on the back of, obviously Mikolai Lensky
Speaker 2: the announcement that he would be signing for Perth, joining
Speaker 2: them at the end of the year. Now, I broke
Speaker 2: the story that the Perth were after him just before
Speaker 2: round one, copped a bit of stick from some Leeds
Speaker 2: fans on Twitter, and then obviously michaela I spoke at
Speaker 2: the season launch and he was sort of saying there's
Speaker 2: nothing in it, blah blah blah. Now, probably not the
Speaker 2: smartest comments to make, but look, you know, fans seem
Speaker 2: to think, you know, clubs and players. Everything they said
Speaker 2: is say is you know, sometimes they can't say what
Speaker 2: they really think. Well, you know they're smart enough to
Speaker 2: you know, obsercate shall we say, alleged decay. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: but look he's going And if you look at it
Speaker 2: from a Leeds point of view, so they're losing Newman,
Speaker 2: they're losing McDonald and they're losing a LEDs kid Ulti
Speaker 2: Perth are three England internationals, two of them that they've produced.
Speaker 2: Obviously McDonald was a Wigan jr who signed for Leeds,
Speaker 2: so that's a big blow. And also if you look
Speaker 2: at it from the Super League competition, there is quite
Speaker 2: an exodus at the moment of players going to the ERROL.
Speaker 2: So there's those three, there's George Williams, who's also going.
Speaker 2: Morgan Oles left and joined the Dolphins, didn't he Morgan
Speaker 2: Gannon also left Leeds to go and join the Warriors.
Speaker 2: And I think there's one or two others that I'm
Speaker 2: forgetting off the top of my head, but they're all
Speaker 2: England international so they're amongst the best players in the competition,
Speaker 2: apart from Gannon who's played for the United and will
Speaker 2: no doubt one day play for England in a senior international.
Speaker 2: So this was the It is a bit of a
Speaker 2: concern obviously Perth and p and G coming in and
Speaker 2: Perth have really targeted. I went Trout, that's the other one, sorry, Owen.
Speaker 2: Trout's going to Cronulla from Lee also played in the
Speaker 2: Ashes for England. So it's a real issue that, you know,
Speaker 2: the best players from Super League are going down to
Speaker 2: the ol being targeted. And there's been some talk in
Speaker 2: Super League amongst the clubs about raising the cap. I
Speaker 2: know Wigan we're pushing for it. That seems to have
Speaker 2: you know, there's enough opposition and a lot of fans
Speaker 2: seem to think it won't change anything, you know, but
Speaker 2: it will change. It won't stop all players going down roll,
Speaker 2: but it will stop some because the neral salary cap
Speaker 2: is three times higher than the super HIG. It hasn't
Speaker 2: grown for a long long time. And I think what
Speaker 2: Wigan we're advocating was dispensations for your own players that
Speaker 2: you've produced through your pathways. So you know, for leeds
Speaker 2: that would I mean, they could have offered Newman or
Speaker 2: Gannon or Oledski, you know, more money under the cap
Speaker 2: or that isn't including the cap. And I think that's
Speaker 2: a very smart way to incentivize these clubs to produce
Speaker 2: your own partner players.
Speaker 1: What happens is club clubs and towns where where there's
Speaker 1: not many local juniors, they rally against that in the
Speaker 1: meetings and it all comes down to numbers.
Speaker 2: Yeah, in the meeting, that's what happens. The thing is
Speaker 2: that people for is that these clubs that produce, you know,
Speaker 2: the most players, a lot of them are players that
Speaker 2: aren't actually from the towns that look at mentioned Wigan.
Speaker 2: So we're going to have got Morgan Smithi's and Mary
Speaker 2: Nicholson playing in the n RF for camera. They're both
Speaker 2: from Halifax, Halifax. You know, you know we're going to
Speaker 2: have done that with our players. Luc At sint Helen's
Speaker 2: you know down to resources. Doesn't it come down to.
Speaker 1: The ability to pay a scout or give the scout
Speaker 1: six tracks and say go to Halifax family player.
Speaker 2: Look.
Speaker 1: In terms of your point about the salary cap, movement
Speaker 1: between England and Australia used to be very common because
Speaker 1: the English game was played in the winter, the Australian
Speaker 1: game was played in the eighties, Yeah yeah, and the
Speaker 1: yeah and ang on, let me talk, and and the
Speaker 1: previous ninety years before it John right, So players used
Speaker 1: to move between countries quite regularly, and they could because
Speaker 1: they could finish their season go over. And then all
Speaker 1: of a sudden we brought it in line in ninety six.
Speaker 1: I remember in ninety six Phil Clark happened to be
Speaker 1: at the Roosters and then there wasn't anything for a
Speaker 1: few years, and then Adrian Morley was the first to
Speaker 1: jump across, and then a few years later Burgess Graham.
Speaker 1: That's basically how it went. Now it's turning into a procession.
Speaker 1: The only reason it's changed is because of finances. Because
Speaker 1: of financial the NRL has been the best competition in
Speaker 1: the world throughout that time. Since at least ninety six
Speaker 1: when we aligned our competition. So this talk of the
Speaker 1: salary cap is right. The problem that Peter's got, the
Speaker 1: problem Wigan I've got, is until the structure of the league,
Speaker 1: until the structure of the meetings are such that the
Speaker 1: powerful clubs get more power, basically because of you know
Speaker 1: the realities of the competition. There's currently fourteen teams in
Speaker 1: Super League. If they all got one vote in a meeting,
Speaker 1: you can bet your bottom dollar that the lower clubs
Speaker 1: will be slabbing down on any suggestions of increasing the
Speaker 1: salary cap. And then then look that then depends on
Speaker 1: how the league gets restructured, if it gets restructured again,
Speaker 1: and we've got points to talk about that too, John.
Speaker 1: This week the Rugby League Tweet of the Week, Lee's laugh,
Speaker 1: Media watch, every other, every other facet of what we're
Speaker 1: doing on this podcast. The award goes to Bill Quinn,
Speaker 1: the Oldham chairman. Now you sent me that tweet and
Speaker 1: I think I started one of my days with that
Speaker 1: this week, right, so Friday morning, Yeah, thank you. And
Speaker 1: I'm watching this half asleep, so I'm sort of not
Speaker 1: listening to it and I'm hearing this guy go on
Speaker 1: about Bill Quinn. Bill Quinn doesn't do this, Bill Quinn
Speaker 1: does that. Bill Quinn brother, I thought, oh, I thought
Speaker 1: the Oldham chairman was Bill Quinn, because I looked at
Speaker 1: the tweet of Oldham chairman and I thought the Oldham
Speaker 1: chairman was Bill Quinn. And by the time I got
Speaker 1: to about seven minutes of listening to this, I checked
Speaker 1: and yes it was Bill Quinn talking about Bill Quinn.
Speaker 1: So that's my first laugh, second laugh. And it was
Speaker 1: in his first few verses of his of his sermon,
Speaker 1: he was criticizing whoever used to do the contracts for
Speaker 1: putting in things like you play ten games, you get
Speaker 1: a ballers, you do this, you get a ball. In
Speaker 1: other words, every rugby league contract that's ever existed, basically,
Speaker 1: so criticizing them for in an NRL a contract sorry
Speaker 1: that has ever existed, the same kind of contract that
Speaker 1: every other club in the NRL Super League Championship quents
Speaker 1: and Cup does right New South Wales Cup. Thirdly, criticizing
Speaker 1: all these fans. We seem to have more keyboard warriors
Speaker 1: than everyone else. No, Bill, that's because they're the only
Speaker 1: ones that you look at me. Fourthly, he needs somebody
Speaker 1: to look after his messaging. He was all over the show,
Speaker 1: and he did nineteen minutes of it. Even people on
Speaker 1: social media were saying, can anybody summarize this because I've
Speaker 1: not got nineteen minutes. It was the funniest thing I've
Speaker 1: ever seen.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Look, I mean, as you said at the start,
Speaker 2: whenever you start referring to yourself from a third person,
Speaker 2: it's never a good sign, is that we have Lee
Speaker 2: Addison laughed at it, Man and the other bit. When
Speaker 2: you start attacking your own fans, I mean, I don't
Speaker 2: really know what you're going to achieve with that. No,
Speaker 2: I mean you're always going to get Look at the
Speaker 2: modern world. I can go outside now and say the
Speaker 2: sky is blue, when someone will go on social media
Speaker 2: and say, no, it's green, You're an idiot, Like you're
Speaker 2: always going to get criticism, are always going to get hate,
Speaker 2: whatever abuse. You've just got to suck that up because
Speaker 2: when you start attacking your own fans, whether they are
Speaker 2: right or wrong, you're just going to stop people, you know,
Speaker 2: buying your kit and going your games, and yeah, you're
Speaker 2: lumping them all all together. So yeah, that was an
Speaker 2: the thing that struck me. It's just like how how
Speaker 2: an English frum the League is there so many owners
Speaker 2: who are just like a little bit out there, like
Speaker 2: it's it's a common you know, We've had it with
Speaker 2: Mark Cambell at Featherstone, we had it at Kukash at Salford.
Speaker 2: You know, we've got it with certain owners and Super
Speaker 2: League in a moment they're just they're a little bit
Speaker 2: a little bit mad.
Speaker 1: I think you've got to be mad to just throw
Speaker 1: your money at something and that you know is going
Speaker 1: to make a profit, isn't going to make a profit.
Speaker 2: And I do understand that, but it is a decision
Speaker 2: you don't have to make. And you know there would
Speaker 2: be clubs. You know, obviously the owners who put their
Speaker 2: money in are great, but it doesn't also give you
Speaker 2: a right to just go out and slag off the
Speaker 2: fans and employees and just you know, you know what
Speaker 2: I mean, Like if you buy a club, yes it
Speaker 2: is a business, but it is also something as a
Speaker 2: fabric of that community, and it means more than just
Speaker 2: you know, a business that sells tickets and whatever else,
Speaker 2: like it's you know, while it's professional sport, there also
Speaker 2: is something a bit deeper than that. And I think
Speaker 2: you know, any owner or at least you know, the
Speaker 2: smart lines real is they are custodians of that club
Speaker 2: for a certain period. And I think it was Steve
Speaker 2: mascod and I've said this before. You know, he twittered,
Speaker 2: would you see you know the owner of the La Lakers,
Speaker 2: or the owner of the Brisbane Broncos, or you know,
Speaker 2: the owner of Manchester City coming out with a nineteen
Speaker 2: minute video like that.
Speaker 1: You know there's a good Now the chairman of man City,
Speaker 1: not the owner. He just does want into view a
Speaker 1: year with an in house interviewer and comes across fantastically.
Speaker 1: The key issue, though, that we're missing is what is
Speaker 1: actually going on at Alden so well, from what I
Speaker 1: can gather because I had to pull it out of
Speaker 1: the nineteen minutes, what was trying to say. Basically, they're
Speaker 1: worried financially because they spent a lot of money on players,
Speaker 1: probably more money than the current administration believes they should
Speaker 1: have spent. So the blame game started and now there's
Speaker 1: players getting locked out and I had to laugh. Alan
Speaker 1: Kilshaw came from Keighley and two of the players have
Speaker 1: been loaned back to Keighley, So yeah.
Speaker 2: I mean, I mean part of it is the subtext
Speaker 2: is to foining out with mirke Ford who obviously left
Speaker 2: what was it a couple of rounds ago, and that's
Speaker 2: who you know, was in charge of contracts to the club.
Speaker 2: So there's a foining out there. Then there's the legal
Speaker 2: case with Boundary Park which is the homeground of Old Athletics,
Speaker 2: so they can't play there, which which Bill can talked about.
Speaker 2: And yeah, they are on a massive budget, probably too
Speaker 2: much money for the championship and they are jettison players.
Speaker 2: But yeah, it's just it's a bit of a mess,
Speaker 2: isn't it when you've got you know, allegations swimming around
Speaker 2: in court cases. You know, they're having to play at
Speaker 2: an amateur ground at bower Fold. Yes, it's just just
Speaker 2: a mess. But look it's a bit of light entertainment
Speaker 2: for those people who who who want to watch a
Speaker 2: nine en minute video.
Speaker 1: Yeah, is all of be in trouble? Is the club
Speaker 1: going to be another Featherstone?
Speaker 2: I don't know if it's in trouble no sense, because
Speaker 2: as I said, they had that winding up order that
Speaker 2: was paid off. They do have court cases going on.
Speaker 2: But Bill Quinn, you know, if you if you watched
Speaker 2: that video, he seems very committed. You know he's firing shots,
Speaker 2: but you know he won't give up. So look he
Speaker 2: seems yeah, but yeah, it's it's not It's not a
Speaker 2: great way to run your club, is it. And if
Speaker 2: you look at the best owners saying super League, you
Speaker 2: know you don't have Neil Hodgell coming out with that.
Speaker 2: You don't have Mike Dainson coming out with that. It's
Speaker 2: just not a great one. I don't have Shake Mansur
Speaker 2: coming out with that. Yeah, I mean, yeah, that's it's
Speaker 2: just yeah, it's not a good look for them, the
Speaker 2: Blazers that united. It's not a good look for the sports,
Speaker 2: A good look for an olden thing, is it.
Speaker 1: James has only sent me two poems this week, and
Speaker 1: the second one was this is the official offering thanks James.
Speaker 1: York's performance at Wigan was a major super League building
Speaker 1: brick Castleford with the victims as Warrington's attack produced every
Speaker 1: magic trick early in the season. Bradford Saints, Wakefield Leeds
Speaker 1: also to lose, are doing fine, while Lee and hul
Speaker 1: K are are too close to super League tables bottom line,
Speaker 1: while hulland Catalans one of venues far flung. Huddersfield are
Speaker 1: still stuck on the ladder's bottom.
Speaker 2: Wrong.
Speaker 1: I think I think one poem per podcast is probably enough.
Speaker 1: You're not the one dealing with these, mate. You just
Speaker 1: sit there. You all you do is turn up for
Speaker 1: an hour each week. I'm the one who gets all
Speaker 1: the correspondence make That's what happens when you're the talent. So, James,
Speaker 1: you've heard, you've heard from John. He was very unimpressed
Speaker 1: with your poem. He's happy with just mine news items.
Speaker 1: Aleski is going to Perth. You've already mentioned that the
Speaker 1: Super League exodus. You've already mentioned that, John, you need
Speaker 1: to learn that when you send topics if we end
Speaker 1: up talking about them anyway, they're sort of Wolvenine salary
Speaker 1: cap increase. We've also mentioned that. So now the the
Speaker 1: latest on the NRL takeover, because there was a bit
Speaker 1: of movement this week, wasn't there.
Speaker 2: Well, it was the story in forty twenty magazine. Now,
Speaker 2: our colleagues at forty twenty who had in a report
Speaker 2: that it could be up to a two hundred and
Speaker 2: fifty million five year offer for the for the ANNERL
Speaker 2: to invest in Super League, tied to Tony Mestra of
Speaker 2: Tony Mestrov, sorry, mess becoming the kind of just having
Speaker 2: a minised stroke at the moment becoming of the RFL,
Speaker 2: which is all. It's all very interesting, look my understanding,
Speaker 2: and I've tried to stand up what I could and
Speaker 2: speak to a lot of people this week. There haven't
Speaker 2: hasn't been a formal offer as yet, that hasn't been
Speaker 2: term set. Now it seems to me that one Super
Speaker 2: League owner club owner is putting out this two hundred
Speaker 2: and fifty million five year figure, and it would make
Speaker 2: sense in that if it was fifty million a year,
Speaker 2: you could break that down into being say two to
Speaker 2: three million per year for each super club or fourteen
Speaker 2: of them, and then obviously there would then be money
Speaker 2: that would need to go to the RFL to continue operating,
Speaker 2: and we need money to go to the Championship to
Speaker 2: continue existing. And then hopefully you would think some money
Speaker 2: for marketing and promotion, which is badly needed because the
Speaker 2: Super League clubs at the moment or twelve of them,
Speaker 2: are getting one point three million in a year from
Speaker 2: Sky and you're going to lose to getting six hundred
Speaker 2: and fifty grand and you know clubs are losing between
Speaker 2: one to two million each year, So you'd need you'd
Speaker 2: think that the offer, if it's going to get support,
Speaker 2: if it's going to get voted in, it's going to
Speaker 2: have to be at least two to three million per club,
Speaker 2: isn't it. Well.
Speaker 1: The other thing is Paul Kent, who tends to have
Speaker 1: is his say on these things and also podcast. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and he said he doesn't think. He doesn't think the
Speaker 1: MRL can afford that figure.
Speaker 2: He was he was saying that they're going to use
Speaker 2: money from the federal government, which is the six hundred
Speaker 2: million for P ANDG. I think that's illegal. Yeah, I
Speaker 2: don't think. I don't think that's credible or plausible personally.
Speaker 2: I think where the majority of the fifty million, if
Speaker 2: that is the figure, if it's something like that, would
Speaker 2: be twenty one or whatever around that from Sky for
Speaker 2: three games a week. Then Dezone would come in with
Speaker 2: maybe fifteen to twenty million for the other three games,
Speaker 2: and then BBC would also show a game, so that
Speaker 2: you've got seven games. BBC wouldn't be paying anything, and
Speaker 2: then maybe the NRL, whether it be with you know,
Speaker 2: increased sponsorship or whatever, maybe it would ship in some money.
Speaker 2: But fifty pence, you know, maybe five to ten million
Speaker 2: a year. I'm not sure. I don't know that for
Speaker 2: a fact. This is just you know, what would be logical.
Speaker 2: But I think broadcast would be a big part of
Speaker 2: any investment of it because obviously the NRL has got
Speaker 2: the connections and the expertise in it negotiating, which clearly
Speaker 2: RFL hasn't in previous years. And also I've spoken to
Speaker 2: someone at our commercial about this. It would make zero
Speaker 2: sense for all of Super League to go to his
Speaker 2: own and be behind it because his own in terms
Speaker 2: of subscribers, I don't know how many subscribers has in
Speaker 2: the UK, but it's very very low, while with Sky
Speaker 2: it's got a massive subscriber base for PATV, so you
Speaker 2: don't want to hide the whole sport behind you know,
Speaker 2: a very small PATV provider that barely anyone has.
Speaker 1: So I genuinely think the loss of Brian Karney and
Speaker 1: John Wilkin from there. I think the hour they do
Speaker 1: before games, or the half hour they do before some games,
Speaker 1: is adding so much value to the rugby league discussion
Speaker 1: discussion in the UK right now, So any deal that
Speaker 1: sees them shelved it can't be good for the game,
Speaker 1: and I think when I think of John Wilkin and
Speaker 1: Brian Khne in what they offer before a game, that's
Speaker 1: better than what I and Steve O used to offer.
Speaker 1: I think Eddie and Steve O were fantastic in the
Speaker 1: commentary box, but I think what John and Brian are
Speaker 1: bringing is some genuine insightful critique of many of the
Speaker 1: things that are going on in the game, and you
Speaker 1: can tell his real care there and I think it's
Speaker 1: fantastic raw tellent. I think John Wells has been fantastic
Speaker 1: over the years too, So I've got to think about
Speaker 1: these things as well from an English game point of view.
Speaker 1: Review of games from the last round and I'm going
Speaker 1: to go with the most recent one first because I
Speaker 1: think the world's turned back on its access today because
Speaker 1: City won a cup, Tottenham kept losing, Huddersfield decided things
Speaker 1: aren't great and got rid of their coach, but Hull
Speaker 1: left c beat Leeds. Hull LEFC sixteen fourteen to Leeds
Speaker 1: at halftime, but Hull LEFC twenty four leads sixteen tries
Speaker 1: for Hole from Arthur sal Litton and six Hardacre goals.
Speaker 1: Leeds tries MacDonald and Croft and Connor scored four goals.
Speaker 1: Did you see this game? It's whole second victory of
Speaker 1: the season.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was a big It was a really massive
Speaker 2: result for for Holo of CE. I think John Cartwright
Speaker 2: has been under a fair bit of pressure. They only
Speaker 2: won one game and to be honest, they're not played
Speaker 2: well or they do have a lot of injuries, but
Speaker 2: you know, they're just they've underperformed so far this year.
Speaker 2: So I think Leeds coming in off the Challenge Cup
Speaker 2: loss to Wakefield, which is a bit of surprise, you
Speaker 2: would expect them, you know, with their ambitions and their
Speaker 2: squad to really you know, to put the boot into
Speaker 2: Hall of CEA and it was anything and it was anything,
Speaker 2: but it was a really entertaining game. Leeds discipline was poor,
Speaker 2: you know, Miller I think made some some took some
Speaker 2: poor options and they were they were they were fighting
Speaker 2: for it Leeds, but just for a lot of energy
Speaker 2: and yeah, a fantastic win for them and really much
Speaker 2: needed because I think obviously Luke Robinson has got the
Speaker 2: acts and Ryan car As another coach under pressure at
Speaker 2: the moment, and I'm sure we'll talk about that in
Speaker 2: the second but I think John cart Right. You know,
Speaker 2: there's been a lot of investment at hard seeing they
Speaker 2: did well last year and I think, you know, the
Speaker 2: expectation is to replicate that, if not going further. So
Speaker 2: I don't think, you know, people were happy with the
Speaker 2: start that I'd have so big, big, big win for them.
Speaker 2: And yeah, Jake Arthur has copped a lot, was very
Speaker 2: good today as well. We've got one over his dad.
Speaker 2: They did, he did.
Speaker 1: Leads are a great attacking side. I'm going to be
Speaker 1: interested to look at this game. I forget the time
Speaker 1: because I think their defense and their defensive structure is
Speaker 1: there Achilles heel and I've mentioned it since round one,
Speaker 1: so I'd be interesting to see how things unfolded, because
Speaker 1: I think they really need to click in attack to
Speaker 1: protect their defense, basically because I think because of a
Speaker 1: fast US, I think some of the defensive patterns that
Speaker 1: I'm seeing in Super League are conducive to the style
Speaker 1: of football that's being played. I think their spacings are
Speaker 1: too wide, and I think because of the speed of
Speaker 1: the rook it's easy for the opposition to get go forward.
Speaker 1: So it'll be interesting to look at that. Wigan beat
Speaker 1: York on Thursday We did that for after the hooter
Speaker 1: on straight after the game, and we'll be doing Thursday's
Speaker 1: game this week too for after the hooter. The key
Speaker 1: thing is Wigan one twenty through twenty two. But the
Speaker 1: key thing is that I want to ask you about,
Speaker 1: is the any update on the York players injury?
Speaker 2: McShane No, I've not heard anything so far.
Speaker 1: I'm going to chase that up tomorrow, but which is
Speaker 1: Monday in Yes, Yeah, but I mean sometimes you don't
Speaker 1: always get a response, So the wait on the NHS, mate,
Speaker 1: that's the problem. Might be be eighteen might be eighteen months.
Speaker 1: Wakefield eighteen Lee fourteen tries for Waki from Tavanga, Myyers
Speaker 1: and Pratt, three goals to jow It, Lee scored through O'Brien,
Speaker 1: Charnie and Alec Wayank and a goal to Cook.
Speaker 2: What was this game like, John? Yeah? I think Lee
Speaker 2: will much improved. Obviously they've had a tough start of
Speaker 2: the season, a lot of injuries as well, but they
Speaker 2: you know, they gave it there all. They're just very
Speaker 2: much down on troops. I think Wakefield they did concede
Speaker 2: a trial right at the end which kind of blew
Speaker 2: the score perhaps a little bit closer and then there
Speaker 2: was a terrible There was a kick in from Fatilli
Speaker 2: that O'Brien went to kind of kick away and missed,
Speaker 2: which was a gift for Wakefield. But look, Wakefield turned
Speaker 2: a bit of corner, a couple of wins now on
Speaker 2: the beut On Johnson back which was which was massive
Speaker 2: for them. So yeah, really a good victory for Wakefield.
Speaker 2: They'll be very pleased with that if it wasn't a
Speaker 2: perfect performance, but at the end of the day, a
Speaker 2: win is a win. Yeah, pick up a bit of
Speaker 2: momentum now the trend.
Speaker 1: Wakefield coach Daryl Powell wasn't particularly happy with the performance,
Speaker 1: but I'm with you. I think it's a good result
Speaker 1: for Wakefield and I think they've been quite impressive in
Speaker 1: their defeats too, so I think Wakefield are going to
Speaker 1: be in or around it when the Whips are cracking
Speaker 1: in terms of lee. Apparently they are down to eighteen
Speaker 1: fit players now and that can't help. But even so,
Speaker 1: the eighteen that were left for very poor with their
Speaker 1: discipline and it was a seven to one penalty count
Speaker 1: at half time and in the second half Jack Hughes
Speaker 1: got SimBin after they'd conceded a stream of first half penalties,
Speaker 1: So I don't care who goes on the field. If
Speaker 1: you're real disciplined, you're always going to going to pay
Speaker 1: the price, particularly in this quick rock six again.
Speaker 2: Era that we are in.
Speaker 1: Bradford only scored four at halftime, Huddersfield had two on
Speaker 1: the board, but by the end of the game it
Speaker 1: was twenty six fourteen to Bradford. Bradford's tries ruin They
Speaker 1: weren't ruined anything, they were they were they won. Nick
Speaker 1: Arema scored two. I think they're his first two for
Speaker 1: the club, aren't they And Hooleyoo, Yeah.
Speaker 2: It was his he'd been injured before well in pre
Speaker 2: season and hadn't played for them, So yeah, it just
Speaker 2: was a really close game, very tight, and it was
Speaker 2: the Nick Arema show. Really second half. I think both
Speaker 2: the tries they were highlights that I saw. He basically
Speaker 2: just really took the line on rend hard and you know,
Speaker 2: took two or three players over the line with him,
Speaker 2: so just pure strength. So yeah, good a good win.
Speaker 2: I mean, hordes Field a look at the whipping boys
Speaker 2: of the competition of the moment, So I think Bradford,
Speaker 2: you know, would have been expecting to win this game
Speaker 2: at home. But again Bradford have you know lost players
Speaker 2: from from last weekend. Yeah, they had to draft in
Speaker 2: has to Addisfield a draft in some light daies but
Speaker 2: good for good for Bradford and obviously yeah, it proved
Speaker 2: to be the final eighty minutes for for Loke Robinson.
Speaker 1: Wholey contributed ten points to Bradford's score with a trying
Speaker 1: three goals, acting kicked two others. Huddersfield's try came from Sorry,
Speaker 1: tries came from Powell and Gaguy, and Russell kicked three goals.
Speaker 1: Third successive home Super League win for Bradford and a
Speaker 1: fifth successive league defeat for Huddersfield and Luke Robinson is
Speaker 1: in the doll qu this week to lose sixteen Saint
Speaker 1: Helen's thirty. It was twenty eight mil at halftime. Laguerre
Speaker 1: Paul Celly and Dupree scored tries for to lose. Shorrecks
Speaker 1: kicked two. I can't help but think that this was
Speaker 1: after the fact that they've been put to the sword
Speaker 1: basically and St Helens took their took their foot off
Speaker 1: the pedal. Somewhat PARSI Murphy scored to Clemma got off
Speaker 1: the new run. Was that his first try for the season.
Speaker 1: Cross scored for Saint Helen's. Hastings slotted over five goals
Speaker 1: the dominant first half from Saint Helen's John.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they were. They were electric in that first half,
Speaker 2: throwing the ball around, making line breaks. To lose to
Speaker 2: a lot of rabbits in the headlights. So Tristan Saylor
Speaker 2: especially an attack was it was fantastic that leap that
Speaker 2: he did, and then the offload off the ground for
Speaker 2: Clemer's try was was beautiful. And I think St Helens
Speaker 2: they lost their luggage a bit of an airline mix up,
Speaker 2: so they had a bit of adversity going to the game.
Speaker 2: But yeah, they were. They were fantastic and Allan's again
Speaker 2: a lot of young players in there, and I think
Speaker 2: it might have even been a debut or two, but
Speaker 2: missing quite a few players, but that was a really,
Speaker 2: really good performance. I think they also lost George Whitby
Speaker 2: to h i A who was off the bench, So yeah,
Speaker 2: dealing with adversity and it was just it was the
Speaker 2: first time first half demolition. So disappointing for to lose
Speaker 2: because the game the Twitter I was virtually over. They
Speaker 2: did come back into it, but get comfortable from Saint
Speaker 2: Helens in the end.
Speaker 1: I think we're going to talk about this next game
Speaker 1: in a bit of detail. Warrington seventy two, Castle for six.
Speaker 1: I want to talk about Castleford first. I've been championing
Speaker 1: the fact that they've not been going too bad, even
Speaker 1: though they've been losing games. And people must think I've
Speaker 1: been on the Amsterdam cakes after what happened at the weekend,
Speaker 1: because I can't explain that one, because because I've been
Speaker 1: studying Warrington too. I did an analysis on them last week.
Speaker 1: The defense has vastly improved. The attack looked a tiny
Speaker 1: bit clunky at times, as if timing was a little
Speaker 1: bit off. They obviously got their timing perfect. But when
Speaker 1: you lose a game seventy two six, like Castleford did.
Speaker 1: It was thirty two six at halftime, it literally looked,
Speaker 1: seems to me Castleford did not turn up at all.
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh yeah, I mean I think that's fair. I
Speaker 2: mean they lost, they lost the captain Joe Siphs Dimpson
Speaker 2: early a for for an h i a in the
Speaker 2: you know, the start of the game. But they were
Speaker 2: dreadful casts you know, I think part of it was
Speaker 2: was Warrington was really up for this and you know,
Speaker 2: they were on they were on fire. But Casts were
Speaker 2: utterly awful. And I think Ra the wigga Jesus, he's
Speaker 2: he has had a shocking start to his Castleford career.
Speaker 2: I think a lot of the tries were scored on
Speaker 2: his his edge. But look, the loss wasn't down to him,
Speaker 2: like there was poor performances all across the Cast team
Speaker 2: and Ryan Carr really gave it. You know, he unleashed
Speaker 2: in his in his post match presser. I think, you know,
Speaker 2: he used victim mentality and you know he was he
Speaker 2: was very blunt with his players, and yeah, I've been
Speaker 2: the same as you Lee in what I've seen from Cass. Obviously,
Speaker 2: they beat Huddersfield, uh and I think they were pretty
Speaker 2: credible in Round one against Wigan. I'm just trying to
Speaker 2: remember the other games they weren't They weren't great against
Speaker 2: the loose, but they've been competitive and this was just
Speaker 2: kind of out of character. You know. I caught up
Speaker 2: with Ryan Carr in pre season and there's a lot
Speaker 2: of change at Castleford around the stadium and everything, and
Speaker 2: a lot of new players coming in. But yeah, this
Speaker 2: this was a real low point. You just yeah, the biggest,
Speaker 2: the biggest hiding that we've had so far the season,
Speaker 2: what five rounds in I dare say it's one of
Speaker 2: the biggest defeats Castleford I've suffered too. I think you're right. Yeah,
Speaker 2: for a long long time. I think it's something like
Speaker 2: twenty odd years. It's not that long really.
Speaker 1: Uh, it's when when when a club, when a club
Speaker 1: is parennially near the bottom, right, so Huddersfield are a
Speaker 1: perfect example. Castleford have had moments where they've been a
Speaker 1: bit higher et ceterable. There tends to be something a
Speaker 1: lot more than just a coach.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 1: I think the difference between Ryan Carr and Luke Robinson
Speaker 1: is Ryan Carr has only just arrived and there will
Speaker 1: be things within the walls at Castleford, within the DNA
Speaker 1: of the club that that have impacted this result this weekend.
Speaker 2: And if.
Speaker 1: If you compare that to say Lee and ok Are,
Speaker 1: who are struggling for wins at the moment, it's probably
Speaker 1: the other way there. They've probably there's probably been a
Speaker 1: little bit of subconscious relaxation because they've been going to oh, well,
Speaker 1: what's the term, I'm looking for complacency.
Speaker 2: It's early morning still for me, Joe.
Speaker 1: And then the metal red hot Warrington and I think,
Speaker 1: what one thing that's happened here is Castleford have turned
Speaker 1: up not quite in the right frame of mind. Was
Speaker 1: this a Saturday game?
Speaker 2: It was yes, saurday afternoon again.
Speaker 1: Right, They've only scored one try. Vlame scored and Weaver
Speaker 1: kicked the goal. But Warrington looked like they've put on
Speaker 1: a clinic. But just looking at the details, Castleford just
Speaker 1: can't have turned up. Corey scored two tries for Warrington.
Speaker 1: Ashton scored three, but not to be outdone, Tanganoa scored
Speaker 1: for Hoppo, Artist scored one Stone and Harrison goals twelve
Speaker 1: from Irwin. Right, they've got to support Ryan Carr because
Speaker 1: they need change at that joint. They need they need
Speaker 1: to support him because this this isn't a coach thing.
Speaker 1: Because when I look at this result compared to the
Speaker 1: other performances I've seen, it's it makes the other performances
Speaker 1: look like they've overachieved because they've got this in them.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, we're not doing a die on cast
Speaker 2: right now, but you can look at you know, after
Speaker 2: the Daryl Powell era, and obviously they had that high
Speaker 2: point of what was the twenty seventeen when they made
Speaker 2: a Grand Final, one of the league leaders. You know,
Speaker 2: they never really have seemed to be able to move
Speaker 2: on from that. Clearly. They've had a lot of coaches.
Speaker 2: You know, Lee Radford was there for a bit, Andy
Speaker 2: Last was there for a bit. They had his name
Speaker 2: escapes me. He's now at Sheffield, Greg Lingard, Danny maguire
Speaker 2: and now obviously Ryan Carr and a lot of new
Speaker 2: players have come in as well, Chris Chester's coming last year.
Speaker 2: So yeah, I think I think there needs to be
Speaker 2: time at the cast of it. Look, I think some
Speaker 2: of the group and hasn't been great and I think
Speaker 2: some of those players are not up to it. But yeah,
Speaker 2: I think there needs to be time because I think
Speaker 2: just constantly sacking the coach doesn't get hit right, you know,
Speaker 2: with the hope of the next coach being better than
Speaker 2: the last or getting more out of the group. I
Speaker 2: don't think that works. And if you look at Ryan
Speaker 2: cast career, you know he did a great job at
Speaker 2: Featherstone at a fabit of time under Brad Arthur at
Speaker 2: Para faverit of time. It's sort of Georgia Lawara under
Speaker 2: fun again. I think he is a good coach. Uh so, yeah,
Speaker 2: but that was Yeah, they were so soft casts particularly
Speaker 2: in defense. It was just like a knife through butter
Speaker 2: at times, and Warrington looked Warrington. They're undefeated therefore from four.
Speaker 2: You know they've not played you know, a whole kr
Speaker 2: or a Wigan as of yet. But they did beats
Speaker 2: and helms around one and got a credit my credit.
Speaker 2: Gave some credit to Sam burgess On on Twitter because
Speaker 2: you know he was close to again sacked last year
Speaker 2: and obviously they had a change. They got rid of
Speaker 2: Martin Gleason and broad in Steve Maner and everyone's quick
Speaker 2: to point out it's all Steve McNamara, which is interesting
Speaker 2: because he got sacked by a cat. Well, but yeah,
Speaker 2: Steve manaor is a good coach. I'm not saying it isn't,
Speaker 2: but I think there's more than just an assistant coach
Speaker 2: coming in. It's been a lot of change at Warrington.
Speaker 2: You know, they moved on a few players after being
Speaker 2: a big one. You know, there was discipline issues, but
Speaker 2: they've turned around the corner a big time Warranton. It's
Speaker 2: still early and a lot can happen, but you know,
Speaker 2: fair play to them for what they've done early on
Speaker 2: in the in the season.
Speaker 1: Huge win for Catalans twenty six two tries Solipovich, Navarette
Speaker 1: scored one and Mark scored one. Not surname Mark, not
Speaker 1: first name Mark Golds from Sexton who've scored five AKR
Speaker 1: scored twenty points. But again Catalans were well ahead at
Speaker 1: half time. Fourteen six OKRs trays came from may Burgess
Speaker 1: a mole four goals from Lewis Hulking. Some Rovers have
Speaker 1: suffered their third defeat in their opening four games. They
Speaker 1: got the customer winn at Huddersfield. Catalans were twenty to
Speaker 1: six up at one point after the hour. So again
Speaker 1: I think problems at whole k are I think, Look,
Speaker 1: I read the Australian News and every other day it's
Speaker 1: Willie Peters is in demand here, Willie Peters in demand there,
Speaker 1: and Willie Peters as a friend, et cetera. He wants
Speaker 1: to sign a contract quickly, I think because it looks
Speaker 1: like his ok our team were unraveling somewhat.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know about unraveling. I think you might
Speaker 2: be a touch as there. But look, this was a
Speaker 2: fantastic game from the neutral point of view. I think
Speaker 2: people forget how difficult it is to go to Calian's.
Speaker 2: They went there. But the Dragons were fantastic. As I said,
Speaker 2: they lost I think it was four players during the game.
Speaker 2: Their players were dropping like flyers and they just they
Speaker 2: really took it the whole k are. They were, they
Speaker 2: were really committed. Didn't stop the effort that the try
Speaker 2: for Mark at the end you know set up by
Speaker 2: for Tapi with the offload drawing the two players was
Speaker 2: was brilliant. And this was just a really gutsy displayed
Speaker 2: by the Dragons and you are right with who. There
Speaker 2: was a few you know moments is where Michael Lewis
Speaker 2: was arguing with Jesse Litton and players playing for penalties
Speaker 2: you know Hiccu made It was really bad attempts to
Speaker 2: tackle and in defense on a few of those tries.
Speaker 2: So yeah, it's just standards maybe not where they need
Speaker 2: to be for whole k are. So yeah, you know,
Speaker 2: not not a great start for them. But yeah, John Tompkins,
Speaker 2: massive credit to him and the Cartlands boys for for
Speaker 2: what they did there. It was a really, really big win,
Speaker 2: and yeah, showed a lot of a lot of courage.
Speaker 1: The title win last year for whole KR was built
Speaker 1: to defense. They averaged nine points against them a game
Speaker 1: in the finals, eleven in the competition. They are leaking
Speaker 1: a lot of points this year. The second half against Brisbane,
Speaker 1: a game that they'd won in the first half, they
Speaker 1: ship the points in in the second half. That there's
Speaker 1: there's so many things in jo KRS game. I looked
Speaker 1: at them quite quite a lot in depth prior to
Speaker 1: the World Club Challenge. If you look at the Rugby
Speaker 1: League Coach YouTube, and I found some things that weren't
Speaker 1: quite up to scratch, that weren't exposed. And now the
Speaker 1: faster rucks could because in JOK are real problems and
Speaker 1: they just don't look like they've adapted to me just yet.
Speaker 1: And like I stand by it, Willie Peters is to
Speaker 1: sign a contract quick at Perth or Manly or England
Speaker 1: or wherever, because it's going to be it's going to
Speaker 1: be tough. They I said this homage podcast a few
Speaker 1: weeks ago. Nothing fails like success. People ease off a
Speaker 1: little bit, people start getting a bit excited about where
Speaker 1: they are in life, and they lose that edge sometimes
Speaker 1: that that raised on Deetra, that that edge that drives
Speaker 1: them over the line. And there was big forces pushing
Speaker 1: who k are over the line last year, the fact
Speaker 1: they'd not won a title for forty years, the fact
Speaker 1: that they've been in the shadow of their neighbors who
Speaker 1: left c for so much of that. And I also
Speaker 1: think the loss of McLaurin and Jared we were a
Speaker 1: hard Graves are two very big people within the organization
Speaker 1: and on the field that are being missed too.
Speaker 2: So look.
Speaker 1: Quite often, to win a title or titles, it's a
Speaker 1: fusion of so many things. It's certain players in the
Speaker 1: peak of their career at that time, with some youngsters
Speaker 1: and with some senior players. And then if some of
Speaker 1: those things are a slightly different year after, things can
Speaker 1: be things can be very different. And so far and
Speaker 1: this current evidence, John, they look very different. We're getting
Speaker 1: some questions, John.
Speaker 2: I say, I'm just to add to your point out lead.
Speaker 2: I think second season syndrome, in the sense that it's
Speaker 2: very hard to go back to back, isn't it. You know,
Speaker 2: it's it's very difficult. And they won four trophies in
Speaker 2: a row, which is a phenomenal feat. But you want
Speaker 2: how long those standards can start? But I don't I
Speaker 2: don't think, you know, I think they can come back
Speaker 2: this season. I don't think it's you know, all over
Speaker 2: for them in March. And and also on the Willie
Speaker 2: Peters thing, I think, I mean, I don't know this
Speaker 2: for a fact, but I think it's unlikely that you'd
Speaker 2: leave mid season. I think if he you know, if he,
Speaker 2: if he goes, I just need to sign the contract. Yeah,
Speaker 2: in a contract I'll say at the end of the year. Yeah,
Speaker 2: Because I think I think that, you know, taking over
Speaker 2: a coup mid season is fraught with a lot of difficulties. No, no,
Speaker 2: no one have a suggested that I just need to
Speaker 2: sign the contract. Yeah, Adam m asked us, why do
Speaker 2: some coaches fans seem to feel obligated to an even
Speaker 2: penalty count? Novel concept, but maybe a lopsided penalty count,
Speaker 2: Maybe because one team isn't performing as well as the other.
Speaker 2: E g.
Speaker 1: York six against count versus Wigan was huge as they
Speaker 1: kept interfering with the ball in the ruck.
Speaker 2: Well, I'll just start with this.
Speaker 1: The Peter Landy's made a great point last week about
Speaker 1: the clamor for the six agains to be reduced, even
Speaker 1: though I think the referees might have done it a
Speaker 1: little bit in the NRL, just reduced it a little
Speaker 1: bit because the score lines were blowing out, and they
Speaker 1: seem to have blown out a little less this weekend.
Speaker 1: But he said over to you, he said, stop breaking
Speaker 1: the rules. And you know, to me, that's a mic
Speaker 1: drop moment. And I guess to this question from Adam,
Speaker 1: I don't know if coaches and fans seem obligated for
Speaker 1: it to be even I just don't think they appreciate
Speaker 1: seven to one and eight one or ten to one,
Speaker 1: because every time I've been on the end of one
Speaker 1: of those as a coach, I've looked at the opposition
Speaker 1: doing exactly the same things as us, if not worse. So, yes,
Speaker 1: York would have interfered with the ball in the rock,
Speaker 1: but I'm sure Wigan did too, but just maybe did
Speaker 1: it a little bit smarter or.
Speaker 2: Well, you know, as a coach more than mely. But
Speaker 2: I'm sure every coach you know teaches their team to
Speaker 2: try and bend the rules where you can and get
Speaker 2: away with what you can. Obviously, you don't go out
Speaker 2: there to cheat in every area. But if you can,
Speaker 2: you know, get half a meter, you know, you doing
Speaker 2: nine and a half meters and get away with that.
Speaker 2: Or you can just hold down that player in the rock,
Speaker 2: you know, an extra second or half a second. You
Speaker 2: do that, don't you. Sometimes you get away with it,
Speaker 2: sometimes you don't.
Speaker 1: I think too much credit gets given to coaches for
Speaker 1: these things, xactly players that are grubby bastards after the time.
Speaker 1: I have never coached a team to be it dirty
Speaker 1: or rip the ball or anything like that. But I've
Speaker 1: coached plenty of players who did rip at the ball,
Speaker 1: who did do dirty things because that was just in
Speaker 1: their makeup and they did so they did everything they
Speaker 1: could to hide it from me. So the players football
Speaker 1: IQ is a thing too, and what a coach has
Speaker 1: to do is control that basically and make sure it
Speaker 1: doesn't go out of get out of hand. Mark Williamson
Speaker 1: asked a fantastic question, how can you plan to attack
Speaker 1: on a pitch with oddsule's dimensions? So for those who
Speaker 1: don't know, it's quite significantly thin. A post Giants game,
Speaker 1: Robinson basically said, run hard for the first five then
Speaker 1: kick and hope for the best. Surely there's more to
Speaker 1: it decoy runs and dummy lines. Mark Well, I will
Speaker 1: say that that game plan obviously didn't help Robinson because
Speaker 1: he's now this week looking for a new job. I
Speaker 1: am probably going to analyze Bradford this week, John, And
Speaker 1: what I've seen so far from Bradford is the coach
Speaker 1: is asking them to play some football. But the key
Speaker 1: why it's successful at the moment is they are playing
Speaker 1: football coming out of their own twenty sometimes and they're
Speaker 1: not playing stupidly risky football. They're just moving the ball around,
Speaker 1: ice off loads when it's on, not when it's risky.
Speaker 1: They've also got quite a decent back three that get
Speaker 1: them some good go forward. Now, if you look at
Speaker 1: Bradford's success in their Super League era nineteen ninety seven
Speaker 1: stands out like dogs appendages because they were huge. They
Speaker 1: were huge and if I remember rightly, it was unlimited
Speaker 1: interchange era as well, and they just rolled over teams
Speaker 1: and that's one way of beating a team on a
Speaker 1: thinner pitch. Another way is to and a lot of
Speaker 1: teams do this anyway, and I don't understand why they
Speaker 1: do it so incessantly, but actually to set up in
Speaker 1: the middle of the field and split your halves so
Speaker 1: that people can run lines. Like Mark said, decoy runs
Speaker 1: back on the angle, etc. And so forth. Whereas Bradford
Speaker 1: at the moment and moving the ball I think in
Speaker 1: their own half quite a bit, but they're moving it smartly.
Speaker 1: People always think passing the ball is risky. Well it's
Speaker 1: not riskly risky if you do it smartly and you've
Speaker 1: worked on your skills. So Mark, please look out for
Speaker 1: that analysis video this week because I think I will
Speaker 1: look at Bradford. Have you got anything to add to
Speaker 1: that based on what you've seen?
Speaker 2: John? No, I mean I agree with you. I think
Speaker 2: you know the Historically the Bradford teams had massive wingers
Speaker 2: and massive centers and huge packs, didn't they And I
Speaker 2: think yeah, bashing someone through the middle is one way
Speaker 2: to do it. Obviously, playing off fast rocks. Interchange of
Speaker 2: passing inside and out and moving the ball quickly and
Speaker 2: you know from deep as well as another is another thing.
Speaker 2: And Bradford have done that not only when they're playing
Speaker 2: it odds are this season, but also you know the
Speaker 2: likes ofs and Helms and other you know the games
Speaker 2: that I've seen them, they've been doing that really well,
Speaker 2: and it's obviously something that they've been working on, and yeah,
Speaker 2: they've they've been very successful with so far.
Speaker 1: Because they're not being lateral in the in the sense
Speaker 1: that they're trying to go around teams there being lateral,
Speaker 1: are still trying to play through teams basically a lot
Speaker 1: and then that gets some go forward with the fast
Speaker 1: ups and then they and then they play.
Speaker 2: So for me, you know, I watch a lot of NRL,
Speaker 2: watch a lot of Super League, and it's something more
Speaker 2: teams should be should be doing from deep. You know.
Speaker 2: You see they'll get to a last tackle and there'll
Speaker 2: be thirty minute from their own try line and halfway
Speaker 2: at the ball and he's got two men overlap on
Speaker 2: his left and he just kicks it. You just think
Speaker 2: you've just got to move the shift the ball, which
Speaker 2: you should be able to do because you're a professional
Speaker 2: football and you have to skill. But obviously, you know
Speaker 2: there is that risk and you know, some coaches would
Speaker 2: rip a half back sead if he decided to play
Speaker 2: from there. But I like to see teams do that
Speaker 2: because you know, adds that bit of jeopardy. It's a
Speaker 2: bit more entertaining, its less predictable. So yeah, I applaud
Speaker 2: any team who can do it, and you know they're
Speaker 2: doing it in the right They're doing it, as you said,
Speaker 2: when it's on, not just throwing caution the win and
Speaker 2: trying to do it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and they're not taking undue risks if you've got
Speaker 1: the ability to catch and pass the football. Passing and
Speaker 1: catching the football isn't a risk and.
Speaker 2: Every professional football should be able to catch and pass
Speaker 2: the football. Listen to this week's Rugby League Coach podcast Everybody,
Speaker 2: and I've opened with a story about Pep Guardiola, who
Speaker 2: at the time of my recording had won forty trophies
Speaker 2: as well. Right now the podcast is already out of
Speaker 2: date because he's won forty one trophies and he talked. Sorry,
Speaker 2: he sorry. His ex player Cal Walker said, as soon
Speaker 2: as he arrived at Manchester City he realized Pep didn't
Speaker 2: like players running in training, not just doing conditioning getting flogged.
Speaker 2: He wanted a ball at the feet all the time. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's a different mentality, yeah right.
Speaker 1: NRL Todd Payton's backside isn't twitching as much this week.
Speaker 1: He got the win over Go Coast Titans, although the
Speaker 1: squeaky one might have been in the other coaching box.
Speaker 1: The Titans coach Josh Hannay might be a bit worried
Speaker 1: about the job he's taken on penryth Un Warriors setting
Speaker 1: the pace and it's a bit of a appendage measuring
Speaker 1: contest I think between their fans as to who's had
Speaker 1: the better start. And I also want you John to
Speaker 1: consider the form of Cronulla, who have started started quite strangely. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so Cowboys, Penrith, Warriors and Cronulla.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I didn't see a huge amount of NRL this weekend.
Speaker 2: I really enjoyed the Broncos game. That was a that
Speaker 2: was a fantastic game and obviously the Broncos coming back
Speaker 2: to win that with all the drama that's gone on
Speaker 2: with with Gordi and Madge and everything. But yeah, really
Speaker 2: surprised by Carnalo because I think it's given is a
Speaker 2: fantastic coach and they've been what top four the last
Speaker 2: couple of years, so that's a bit of a puzzle.
Speaker 2: Penrith just look Immatilla, don't they. I Mean, you don't
Speaker 2: win Grand Finals in in March, but they have started
Speaker 2: the season really really well. Just look effortless at the moment. Uh.
Speaker 2: And the Cowboys, Yeah, I mean the Gold Coast, it's
Speaker 2: a bit like a bit like casts isn't it. Like
Speaker 2: they're just a club that. Yeah, they've been down there
Speaker 2: for a long time, and I think, you know, it's
Speaker 2: going to be a painful rebuild for Josh Hannay. He
Speaker 2: needs a lot of time there. I know they've they've
Speaker 2: you know, they've locked up a few players like Tino
Speaker 2: and Cooper By and I think if they locked up
Speaker 2: Campbell or they've got you know, they've got some building
Speaker 2: games now, Yeah, they've got some building goal. See. I
Speaker 2: think with the Gold Coast, one of the issues, much
Speaker 2: like Newcastles, that they lose a lot of their best
Speaker 2: local juniors. You know, Paynehasse a Gold Coast junior. Reee
Speaker 2: Walsh is a Gold Coast junior. You know, they've got
Speaker 2: to try and keep those best players there. But yeah,
Speaker 2: I mean with the Cowboys, we'll just you know, one
Speaker 2: win is great for top eight and we'll see how
Speaker 2: they go the rest of the the year. Though so,
Speaker 2: because I think if they they lose next weekend, the
Speaker 2: pressure of just ramps right back up.
Speaker 1: I think in the conversation vis A VI Chronel Penryth
Speaker 1: and Warriors. The amazing thing is who they've played, and
Speaker 1: the other amazing thing is Penrith defense. Pen I haven't
Speaker 1: conceded many points at all in this era where points
Speaker 1: are coming thick and fast. Penrith have played and beaten
Speaker 1: last year's premiers, Roosters who were many people's favorites for
Speaker 1: the competition, and Cronulla who were preliminary finalists and seem
Speaker 1: to be perennial preliminary finalists. Try to say in that
Speaker 1: ten times the Warriors have beaten last year's minor premiers,
Speaker 1: they've beaten Newcastle in Newcastle, and they've beaten the Roosters
Speaker 1: who were many people's favorites for the competition this year.
Speaker 1: So already you could say these guys are answering questions
Speaker 1: that you'd want to ask of them too. I think
Speaker 1: what gives Penrith the edge is the fact that they're
Speaker 1: just not leaking points, which is amazing in this current era.
Speaker 2: And they're worried have a history of imploding mid season
Speaker 2: even after starting well, while Penrith have a history of
Speaker 2: just winning things, don't they And they still have that
Speaker 2: ridiculously good spine, ridiculously good squad and also that pathway
Speaker 2: is you know, the young Ginger was a Jenkins, you know,
Speaker 2: I mean the young Ginger didn't they cut him a
Speaker 2: few years ago and then he's come back and he's
Speaker 2: you know, because he's ginger. Yeah, I believe it was Ginger,
Speaker 2: Bis it.
Speaker 1: Was Every good team needs a red head mate. You know,
Speaker 1: Cowboy's got an easy home fixture next week Melbourne Storm
Speaker 1: on the back of a defeat.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean you would have hated to have been
Speaker 2: the Storm after that? What were they? Were they falling
Speaker 2: all up a halftime? The Storm players with Bellamy? You know,
Speaker 2: I mean he would have been ripping things off, the
Speaker 2: doors off, and.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think what I know of Bemay Bellamy I
Speaker 1: think he's just in the coaching box is a lunatic.
Speaker 1: I think everywhere else is a bit more measured. He's
Speaker 1: brutal with his words, but he's not He's not des
Speaker 1: Azla ripping dressing room doors off kind of thing. If
Speaker 1: you think about it, how many times have you seen
Speaker 1: footage of Craig Bellamy going off in the sheds?
Speaker 2: Yeah? I think I don't. I don't. Yeah, he's not
Speaker 2: a Ranger and Rave of twenty four seven. But I
Speaker 2: think he he's very honest with his que Yeah, there's
Speaker 2: nothing wrong with that. I think he would have he
Speaker 2: would not have expected or been happy with that second
Speaker 2: half that they dished up. And full credit to the
Speaker 2: Broncos for coming back and winning because they've they've been
Speaker 2: in the sights of everyone, haven't they and basically the
Speaker 2: rugby media, and you know, there's been a lot of
Speaker 2: ship thrown around and you know, they answered a few
Speaker 2: of their critics with that with that win.
Speaker 1: I'm looking forward to watching cast Flord against Bradford on
Speaker 1: Thursday night UK time Friday morning Australian time. I don't
Speaker 1: know why he's smiling, because I actually think you're smiling
Speaker 1: because you're happy to be at my company. But Casts
Speaker 1: need to win this game. The Castleford need a performance.
Speaker 2: Need a performance. I mean you would you wouldn't probably
Speaker 2: say it's a mass win game, but they do need
Speaker 2: a performance. They need to show, you know, that they
Speaker 2: care for the badge and they need to you know,
Speaker 2: they need to put their bodies on the line. And
Speaker 2: Bradford or you know, Bradford have a great start of
Speaker 2: the season, so they've got a bit tough opponent and
Speaker 2: the cast fans, you know they will be they're not happy.
Speaker 1: So maybe I could help Ryan car by finding the
Speaker 1: weaknesses in the Bradford side that you can exploit.
Speaker 2: On Thursday, I'll send you I'll send you over his
Speaker 2: number and you can you can give him a call.
Speaker 1: No, no, no, I'll text him analysis video that I do.
Speaker 1: On Friday, hul Kingston Rovers host Saints.
Speaker 2: Yeah, really interesting game. I mean, okay, as you said,
Speaker 2: been a very average start of the season and Helen's
Speaker 2: are flying. They are missing a lot of players, but
Speaker 2: that's a tough away game for them, so that could
Speaker 2: be could be a handing up of the game.
Speaker 1: And my prediction for that game the team that plays
Speaker 1: in red and white will win one of them in
Speaker 1: a horrible awake it so yeah true or that not
Speaker 1: that plays in red and white at York and Wakey
Speaker 1: also on Friday, winnable for York again.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I look when they lost Liam Harris
Speaker 2: for the Wigan game, I thought away the Wigan you know,
Speaker 2: they'll they'll they'll battle, but they'll they'll be well beaten
Speaker 2: and they'll probably unluckily not to come over with the
Speaker 2: drawer at least get a gone point in that game.
Speaker 2: So yeah, the McShane one is really interesting if you
Speaker 2: if mcshane's out, you definitely I think lead or the
Speaker 2: bookies will lead with with Wakefield being slot fair. But
Speaker 2: that's a that's an interesting fifty to fifty game for me.
Speaker 1: We're going to have a training run against what is
Speaker 1: Field on Saturday and Lee host to lose, I think
Speaker 1: to lose a finding life a bit hard now.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think. Look, I think this round was interesting
Speaker 2: because you know, there's been a lot of talk about
Speaker 2: how well the promoted teams are doing, and they are
Speaker 2: doing well, but you can also argue that there isn't
Speaker 2: enough and that's why the foreign quota was injured. It
Speaker 2: was increased, shall I say, from seven your teeth in, Johnny. Yeah,
Speaker 2: there isn't enough you know, talent around to go around
Speaker 2: for foreign teams. I think I stand by that, and
Speaker 2: I think as goes on, more injuries, et cetera, than
Speaker 2: there's going to be you know, some more blowout and
Speaker 2: some teams struggling. And we've already seen Castlevan and Hardersfield struggling.
Speaker 2: And to loose, you know, they've got to back up
Speaker 2: every week and look Lee, you know, barely got anyone fit,
Speaker 2: but you know you definitely give them a chance, particularly
Speaker 2: at home Wigan. Yeah, I mean that could be a
Speaker 2: cricket store.
Speaker 1: Ever since I christened them two wins Olympic. I think
Speaker 1: they must have liked that name because they've not got
Speaker 1: past two wins yet. On Sunday, Hull left c play
Speaker 1: the Catalans.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean that's a really interesting one because cat
Speaker 2: Len's picking up a bit of form now. Obviously again
Speaker 2: four players lost to their Yeah, and all of ce.
Speaker 2: You know, as I said, that was a big result
Speaker 2: over Leeds, so that's a that's a tasty one. And
Speaker 2: then Leeds Warrington the thirty year anniversary game, Warrington undefeated
Speaker 2: Leeds now were two losses in a row, but but
Speaker 2: back at home. So I think that's one of the
Speaker 2: first round games. Thirty years ago it was, I believe
Speaker 2: I think the first of a game was Sheffield Sheffield. Yeah,
Speaker 2: do you remember that? I don't, maybe because I was
Speaker 2: fifteen and.
Speaker 1: You didn't have the ability to. I thought you were
Speaker 1: one of them children that developed slowly and you could.
Speaker 2: Have well, no, I've seen the highlights and it looked,
Speaker 2: you know. I mean the fact that they were playing
Speaker 2: in Paris was pretty cool. I think it was like
Speaker 2: sixteen thousand fans. I think something like five thousand fans
Speaker 2: from Sheffield flew over, which is considering Sheffield get about
Speaker 2: five hundred people to a game now, that's quite remarkable.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I think the Leeds Warranton thirty years ago
Speaker 2: is one of the opening I remember it vividly. Johnny
Speaker 2: D and your team were in the championship, weren't they, Yes, and.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and maybe a month earlier, less than a month
Speaker 1: been freezing cold in February on the terraces at Salford
Speaker 1: watching Salford. And then about a month later there was
Speaker 1: this place that by then had never been to Paris.
Speaker 1: By then I was there, I think a year later
Speaker 1: or two years later. The it was packaged differently. The
Speaker 1: players were led out one by one.
Speaker 2: Steve O.
Speaker 1: Steve Steve O called the names out, pronounced absolutely butchered
Speaker 1: the French names. The video referee which was a new thing,
Speaker 1: and it felt like a brand new dough and and yeah,
Speaker 1: like a bit like Miss World saying yeah, Lee will
Speaker 1: go out next week and then you cock a hoop
Speaker 1: for a week and then miss world texture or messages.
Speaker 1: You're an instrument, so sorry, I can't make it. That's
Speaker 1: how I felt because Parish were gone the year two
Speaker 1: years later.
Speaker 2: I think, yeah, I mean, I think, I think the
Speaker 2: fact that the Paris thing was kind of built on
Speaker 2: stand and they were all mostly Ausies who didn't even
Speaker 2: have visas to playing for us. But look, I think,
Speaker 2: you know, trying to look on the positive side. It
Speaker 2: was bold, it was brash, it was exciting. Wasn't a
Speaker 2: full time for the first time that everyone and yes,
Speaker 2: I really got behind. It's so, you know, thirty years
Speaker 2: of ups and downs and ups and yeah, big moments
Speaker 2: and yeah, but but you know, a bit to celebrate.
Speaker 1: I would say we should have a gone but not
Speaker 1: forgotten Cup Paris, that Whales team that disappeared.
Speaker 2: Crusaders, Yeah, we can go all Crusaders Toronto. Yeah. Who
Speaker 2: else have we lost? Well?
Speaker 1: In terms of dead clubs, I mean we could throw
Speaker 1: a new well, they're not dead. We could have a
Speaker 1: World Club Challenger, North Sydney.
Speaker 2: Bears, Gateshead, Yeah, Gateshead, London Scholars, what do we have?
Speaker 2: London Chargers? Do we have London Chargers? Yeah? I mean
Speaker 2: Fulham weren't in Superlin, but yeah they were. Yeah, we've
Speaker 2: had a lot of different renames. I think Workington Town
Speaker 2: were in the first and haven't been y If you
Speaker 2: want to go through every dead rugby league club from
Speaker 2: to what was the one? What's the third leagues club
Speaker 2: that was around for five minutes? There was another Leads,
Speaker 2: there was Leeds handled and there was another one which yeah,
Speaker 2: there was Blackpool. Blackpool existed for a while. Yeah, I
Speaker 2: played for them, Charlie Charlie Pans. Wasn't there one in
Speaker 2: Liverpool as well? That that lasted about five minutes?
Speaker 1: No, you're think of the Buccaneers. I think I coached
Speaker 1: them and played for them.
Speaker 2: And kenn In Big Yeah, look Ni Victor, who's leads
Speaker 2: one is? Yeah, I can't think I know all it.
Speaker 2: I just can't think of it in the mind. Planel Yeah,
Speaker 2: I think Scoy was involved with him at one point.
Speaker 1: Mariners, Adelaide Rams. What a competition? This is John that
Speaker 1: was setting it? South Queensland Crushers, Yeah, gold Coasts fifteen different,
Speaker 1: all the Eagles, what a comp what a comp Gleeve
Speaker 1: dirty Reds.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're still going around. They're still going around. James
Speaker 2: and Brad taking Yes, Yeah, bumper podcast, John, Yes, we
Speaker 2: better wrap it up. Dame in my overtime yep, yep,
Speaker 2: checks in them out. I get three contact contact details
Speaker 2: please HM. You can get on Facebook at John Davidson, Journalist.
Speaker 1: Johnny d Davidson, and I'm admin at rugbyley Coach dot
Speaker 1: coma say you email, Rugby League Coach dot comvera you website,
Speaker 1: and at rugbyle Coach on socials apart from x where
Speaker 1: I am at r L Coach on the net. Take care,
Speaker 1: We'll see you after the hooter on Thursday night