Speaker 1: What's going on? Thank you so much for listening to
this podcast. It is heard live every day from noon
to three on WBT Radio in Charlotte. And if you
want exclusive content like invitations to events, the weekly live stream,
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smartphone or tablet, And again, thank you so much for
your support. I want to welcome to the program the
Speaker of the North Carolina House, Destin Hall, a Republican
from Caldwell. Hello, mister speaker, how are you, sir?
Speaker 2: Hey Pete, I'm doing well. Thanks for having me on.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, I appreciate you making time for us today, and
you're welcome back anytime. So let me well, I say
that now, but you haven't even heard my questions, so
you may not No, I'm kidding, you may not want
to go back. But so you had a string of
victories in the veto overrides. I've been covering the various overizon.
Earlier in the program, talked about the House Bill three eighteen,
the Criminal Illegal Alien Enforcement Act, which has prompted a
lot of outrage among Democrats against one of their own representative,
Carla Cunningham, right here in Mecklenburg County. So first off,
I have to ask, is it possible to get that
bill or the law now I guess renamed to Gary's
Law in honor of our sheriff here in Mecklenburg County.
I would very much appreciate that.
Speaker 3: Well, you know, there.
Speaker 2: Was some idea about that, and the sheriff there in
Mecklenburg certainly does love to talk about ICE issues. And
you know, we've been working on this issue for a
number of years, going back probably five years or so.
We passed a bill generally requiring Scheff to cooperate with ICE.
In the last two year cycle Cooper Vito we overrode,
and then we discovered that we were told the Mecklenburg
sheriff thought he had found some loopholes. So we wanted
to fix that issue for him and any other sheriffs
who didn't want to cooperate with ICE, and that was
the genesis of this bill this time around. And the
bill just simply requires sheriffs to cooperate with ICE when
they arrest somebody for a serious crime, just like anybody
else could be arrested for a crime, and that person
also happens to be here illegally. So we're talking about
folks charged with serious crimes. ICE wants to detain them. Unfortunately,
we had just a few sheriffs who simply would not
cooperate with ICE and honor those detainers. It's insane and
we had to put a stop to it. You know,
we did have one of our friends on the other
side of the aisle crossover and vote with us on
the override. That same member had voted with us on
the override last time around on the Ice field with
Cooper's governor, and the Democrats tried to primary her in
the last cycle. She got about eighty five percent in
that primary. So I think the Democrats could probably learn
a lesson from Representative Cunningham on where people are when
it comes to cooperating with ICE.
Speaker 1: So yes, I don't think they will learn, but yes,
I agree they should learn something and listen to her.
But they did. I have heard their counter argument to
what she laid out in her floor speech is my
understanding is shut up Representative cunning In that's been I
think that's been their counterpoint, which is I did not
find persuasive.
Speaker 2: Well, there's really no argument against cooperating with ICE. The
polling shows eighty ninety percent of the population agree you
should be cooperating with ICE. And it was really sad
to see on the floor of the House you had
other Democratic members trying to shut down the debate from
their own Democratic member who was supporting the bill. Of
course I didn't let that happen, but it just goes
to show they don't have an argument against this. They're
completely beholding, beholden to these extremists, left wing groups that
want open borders, and they're going to side with those
left wing groups. They're going to side with open borders.
We saw it in the Biden administration where our border
was wide open, millions of people crossing. We don't know
who they are, where they're coming from. And thankfully President
Trump's in there now. He has shut down our borders,
and we're going to do all we can in North
Carolina to help him to make sure we enforce federal
immigration law in North Carolina.
Speaker 1: Is it possible that the Democrats are not aware that
there is a difference between legal and illegal immigration, because
they seem to only just say immigration they never make
a difference or a distinction between the two forms. Is
that possible.
Speaker 2: Well, you know, I don't pretend to understand the mind
of many Democrats, and I think that it's difficult to
understand where they're coming from on many issues, including this one.
But you know what I'll say is this, If you
look at the way that the census operates currently, illegal
aliens are counted in the census. And why is that important?
It's important because when congressional districts are drawn across this country,
when districts for state House and senator are drone, we
use the census, and the census again including the legal
aliens in it, people who are not supposed to be
able to vote. We have to draw districts on those numbers,
and it results in states like California getting more congressional
members in the United States House of Representatives than they
should be entitled to if we were only counting citizens.
I know Trump's trying to do a use census now
to exclude the legal aliens, but I think part of it,
at least from a national level, the Democrats understand legal
immigration is in their interests. They want these folks to
count in the census, They want to get more congressional
seats out of it, and ultimately, I believe their long
term plan is to try to get these folks to vote.
They want to give amnesty and be able to have
imported voters that Democrats can rely on in perpetuity.
Speaker 1: So are you confident that this with House Bill three eighteen,
now that you've closed the loopholes that at least obviously
that you know of, are you? But I got to
believe that there are lawyers that are looking at it
and saying that we can find some other loopholes to
allow these sheriffs to continue avoiding full cooperation.
Speaker 2: I'm sure they're going to try and look. I think
the bill we passed two years ago, I think it
did what was necessary. I think it required chefs to
cooperate with ICE. Unfortunately, again, we had just maybe one,
two three sheriffs who, in my opinion, were getting bad
legal advice and decided they didn't have to honor ICE detainers.
So the purpose of this bill was to make it
absolutely crystal clear. I don't think there are any loopholes
in this law. I'm sure lawsuits are going to be filed.
They will ultimately lose those lawsuits. The Democrats are going
to do all they can to try to say this
is unconstitutional. There's simply no precedent at all to say
that this legislation is unconstitutional. We're going to win that one.
So I think we have the problem here fixed. But
you don't ever underestimate the Democrats' ability to do whatever
they can to avoid enforcing federal immigration law. We'll keep
monitoring it, though, and if you take further action.
Speaker 3: We will.
Speaker 1: Yeah. You mentioned the census and the counts. I've been
covering that too. You're exactly right. Are you any any
appetite for doing a Texas style mid decade redistrict? I
know you guys love doing the redistricting. It's so much
fun and well, you know, I.
Speaker 2: Used to share redistricting but before I was the speaker,
so I've got a lot of experience with that. I
think we've redrawn the maps about five times in my
five terms there. You know, this last time around when
we redrew, I think we did the things that we
needed to do in that map. We're watching the national
picture right now, of course, seeing what Texas and some
other states are doing. We have a lot of experience
with redistrict in North Carolina that other states may not. So,
you know, I think that we have the maps that
we need, but I think the injustice out there right
now is states like California have more seats and they
really should be entitled to. And so you see Texas
and Florida and some of the other states who may
have drawn maps that we're not as republican as they
possibly could have been, and they're looking back now to say, well,
we're going to right the wrong of illegal aliens being
counted by redrawing our districts. And you know in North Carolina,
will we redrawl again? We'll see. What I'll say is
right now there's a very competitive district in the first
district in North Carolina, Don Davis, Democrat there who votes
with the Democrats in Washington, very vulnerable. I think we're
going to beat him anyway under the current maps, and
so we have I think the maps we need in
order to the Primalth Carolina is the vote on this time.
Speaker 1: Around, Well, that's good. I don't want to have to
cover more redistricting lawsuits. They're very dry radio content. You know,
you've also got five vetoed bills that are pending override attempts.
What are the status I guess which one? Can you
tell us like which ones you think are going to
move or like what's the strategy? Is it just kind
of a wait and see who shows up to the
session and then try to call for an override vote
when you get the numbers.
Speaker 2: Well, so I'll say this, since the beginning of session,
I have said we had a working super majority on
most issues, and of course it depends on the issue.
A lot of the Raleigh media and the Democrats they
scoffed at that. They said I was blowing smoke. We
would never be able to override a veto. Heard from
many Democrats over the course of the last month before
we did this that you'll never get any of these
things overridden. I just kept my mouth shut because I
knew what we had and we came in and we
were able to override eight vetos. Things dealing with the
ice Builck. We just discussed a bill that simply defined
what a man and a woman is. Democrats are still
confused about what it means to be a matter of woman,
so we had to clarify that in state law. Bill's
dealing with doing away with green enner mandates for duke energy.
That way we get our power bills lower common sense stuff,
and Democrats voted against it, but we were able to
find at least one on these overrides. So now we
effectively have about five bills that are still out there
to be overridden, and I'll say this, I am optimistic
that we will be able to override each one of
those before the end of this biennium. There's a lot
of things that go into that. There's a lot of strategy,
strategy that goes into it, and I don't want to
say too much because I think it hurts our chances
to be able to do that. But what I'll say
is that all those bills, including constitutional carry, will remain
on the calendar every voting day of the State House
until those things are overridden for the remainder of this
two year cycle. I am optimistic about getting that bill
and all of them overridden. It's personally important to me
to get constitutional carry done again. Personally, I believe that
it is a constitutional right already for a person to
be able to have a firearm concealed and we shouldn't
have to have this concealed carry permit in order to
do that. Criminals don't care about concealed carry laws. They're
going to carry a gun concealed, whether it's the law
or not. All we're doing is disadvantaging of all abiding
citizens and making it harder for them to defend themselves.
But more to come on that later, but I will
say I am optimistic that we will get the rest
of those DDoS done.
Speaker 1: I think that's a very sound strategy. Not to divulge
your strategy on the radio. To me, I think that's
very wise. Okay, all right, mister speaker, thanks for your time.
I do appreciate it. Sir, Yeah, thanks d take care
all right. That is the speaker of the North Carolina House,
Destin Hall, Republican from Caldwell. You know, stories are powerful.
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dot com. Here's a pet tweet from Eric, who says
it is absurd that non citizens are counted for apportionment,
which is a antcy way of saying the census count
is used to draw the districts. That's the apportionment. Even
legal non citizen residents should not be considered counting unlawful immigrants,
rewards localities that undermined federal immigration law and penalizes localities
cooperating with enforcement. That's exactly right, Eric, exactly right. Think
about it.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 1: Mecklberg County Sheriff Gary not my fault. McFadden has an
incentive as a Democrat, as do all of the Democrats
in Mecklinberg County, to not assist with removing illegal aliens
in Mecklinburg County because it adds to the vote totals
or sorry, the census totals, thereby giving them more power
through the apportionment process. And a location that does cooperate
with ICE and does remove illegal aliens, which then, of
course creates an incentive for illegal aliens not to live
in that jurisdiction. They are then penalized with a diminished
political power at the congressional level. Yeah, it's and not
just the congressional level either. I mean, you will use
the census numbers to do all sorts of stuff. We
draw our state and local maps based on these population totals.
He's exactly right. We'll go to the phones here. Sure
we haven't taken a call yet. Hello Chester, Welcome to
the program.
Speaker 3: Hi Pete, how are you today?
Speaker 1: I am all right, sir, How are you good?
Speaker 3: So?
Speaker 4: I want to talk about the tariffs. President Trump keeps
touting how much money every month the tariffs are bringing
in most people in Maga. Is stupid enough? To actually
believe that that money's coming from foreign countries?
Speaker 1: Are you asking me to speak for most people in Maga?
Is that what you're rescuing me?
Speaker 4: It's your take? I mean, are they really? I mean,
Trump says so many stupid things that anyone with half
a brain knows is false. But then I remind myself
that I don't think most people in Maga have half
a brain. So when Trump says, you know, all these
countries are paying you know, the tariffs and that's what's
causing all this revenue, we all know that's demonstrably false.
Are most people in magas stupid enough to believe it?
Speaker 1: You already believe they are, Chester, So why would I
Why would I try to argue one way or the
other with you? You already have your opinion your ohd no,
hang on, Chester, I let you. I let you say
your piece. So I'm going to say mine now to you,
which is that you already have a belief that is
predicated on an assumption that most people, if not all,
the people that voted for Donald Trump or are in
Maga or something, don't even have half a brain, that
they are stupid. So what would be the point in
me trying to engage with you because you're not going
to change your mind one way or the other. You
didn't call to talk about the actual tariffs and all that,
and you've probably not even heard my take on Trump's tariffs,
So like, what would be what what? What would be
what would be the point of what would be the
point of me arguing with you about the intelligence level
of Trump's supporters. You don't care to be convinced, You're
not You're not looking to be persuaded, right, You're looking
to call people names, which you've done.
Speaker 4: Who do you think pays the tariffs?
Speaker 1: Who do I think pays the tariffs? I believe that
the consumers do. And I said and I've said that
from the very beginning, I did not agree with any
of the tariff rollout that Trump did now and what
I said at the time was that it could very
well be that this is a negotiating tactic or whatever
that I don't know. See, I'm willing to I'm willing
And this is what I've said with about Trump since
I've been watching him now for the last uh what
ten years? Is to I'm going to give it a minute.
I'm going to wait and see because I like, I
grew up with the idea of free trade, fair trade,
which I would prefer. But I may be a fish
that doesn't know it's wet. That's what I said at
the time. So I'm willing to wait and see. Now,
if this thing goes sideways, they better be able. And
I told the I told people that were defending Trump
on the tariff stuff when they would call in to
defend it, and I said, you better be right. You
better be right, because if you're wrong, this is going
to go sideways very quickly.
Speaker 4: Why does he so blatantly lie about it?
Speaker 1: Why do all politicians? Why do all people lie about
stuff they get?
Speaker 4: Because lying?
Speaker 1: No, there is a now Chester, you just you, Nolchester,
you have a You're holding Trump to a different standard
than other politicians because Trump is so brazen in his
hyperbole and his lies and whatever you want to call them. Yeah,
but all the politicians do it. Like, do you believe
there are Nazis in our in our government? Right now? Chester?
Speaker 4: Which sex trafficker? Do you think?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 1: No, no, Chester answer no, no, no, no, no. I'm I'm
illustrating a point that I actually made in the last hour.
Do you believe that the Republican Party or Nazis. La'll
ask it that way.
Speaker 4: I think President Trump uses rhetoric.
Speaker 1: Why won't you just answer? Why won't you just answer
the question? Do you think republic the Republican Party are Nazis?
Speaker 4: Steven Miller certainly is.
Speaker 1: He's a Nazi.
Speaker 4: I know he's Jewish, but yeah, he's a white supremacist
who hasn't figured out yet that white supremacy stone.
Speaker 1: It's amazing how you know these things about the way
people think having never met them. Chester. I appreciate you
calling in and providing me a very good example of
the very thing I was talking about in the last hour.
If you did not hear that, I would highly recommend
that you go back get the podcast. You can get
it at the peatpod dot com and listen to our
number two because I broke down precisely what you just
engaged in. You just like to call people names you
want to, you know, shift to another what about is them?
Kind of a question? You know everybody's motives that you
don't like, and it's just tedious and well, you just
assumed that I was with Trump on the tariffs. I
guess I don't know. So you can also go back
and listen to the old podcast I did when I
did the show on the tariffs as well. You can
know all my thoughts about the tariffs. Here's a great idea.
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welcome to the program now, the North Carolina State Auditor
Dave Bullock. Welcome to the show. Welcome back to the show.
Speaker 3: How are you hey, yeh yeah, I'm doing great. I
hope you're doing well.
Speaker 1: I'm doing well. I cannot complain well, I mean I
do like for the rest of the program, but for
this segment, I won't.
Speaker 3: Let's sit it. You haven't been to be clear, you
haven't been dbanked yourself.
Speaker 1: No, that's correct, sir, I have not been dbanked myself yet.
So I am working on it. I'm working towards.
Speaker 3: It me or a mine, and I'm working on it
all right, So.
Speaker 1: Let's let's talk about this. Well, the act that I
guess was named after you, and you've only been in
office as an auditor now for what's seven months, eight months,
and you've already got a bill that has your name
on it. So congratulations for that. So tell us what
is this the Dave Act?
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I appreciate you asking. The Dave Act is
actually an effort by the General Assembly in North Carolina
to give the Office of State Auditors some additional resources
to do a deep dive on government efficiency in North Carolina.
And it is named the Dave Act, and so that's
that's a four letter abbreviation. We're calling it the Division
of Accountability, Value and Efficiency. But in essence, it gives
us additional resources so we can tackle that effort because
the office itself, prior to this Act going into effect
yesterday afternoon about four point thirty, did not really wasn't
really set up to be able to take a full
look across state government at efficiency efforts. And so we're
really I'm quite frankly, I'm pumped to get to it,
and I'm glad that the legislature sees it as a priority.
Speaker 1: Well, I know, I watched your press conference that you
held with the regarding the DMV audit that you all
released as well, and you come across as someone who
really likes data, and so I guess what I'm hearing
then is that, like you, the Auditor's Office has not
been able to get at some of the data in
order to do the measurements necessary to assess whether or
not there is efficiencies.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's part of it, Pete. A bigger part of
it is, you know, one hundred and sixty folks in
the office sounds like a lot, but when you've got
statutory required financial offers that crossed the spectrum from all
the universities, the community colleges, the state agencies that we
have to perform financial audits on. That's a large part
of the human staff that's working on that, and quite frankly,
not particularly the fault of any one individual, but the
technology has lagged behind at the State Auditor's Office. It's
not that shouldn't be a surprise to most listeners that
state government was lagging behind in technology. But you know,
from day one we've brought in the newest technology. We've
brought in AI, and we're working with AI already in
the State Auditor's Office to sort of streamline and be
able to take these large data sets and make sense
out of them. I told somebody the other day, you know,
some things don't change when the auditor shows up. We
get the information now, now we don't necessarily get it
in a particular order, right, But the AI is a
game changer on that because the days of printing the
invoices out and spreading them over the conference room table
or gonge, you can feed it through the data analytics
and get to the answers a lot quicker and a
lot more efficient. So I'm very confident the people of
North Carolina are going to continue to see increased results
out of the State Auditor's Office moving forward.
Speaker 1: So that's interesting you bring up AI, So it sounds
like you guys are leaning in and using new technology
and updated systems. It sounds like but like with the
DMV audit you mentioned this, and I'm aware like all
facets of state government and even at the local level,
they're running on these antiquated systems. Like do you have
any idea to get a sense of like, are there
any agencies and divisions of government at the state level
that are operating as sort of a modern day or
even close to modern day tech level like you're describing
in the Auditor's office.
Speaker 3: I can't think of one. I can only think of
one that is doing pretty good, and that is, of
all things, the Employment Security Commission, folks that do unemployment,
they actually have a brand new system and they've got
a really good CIO. One of the things that we
do at the Auditor's office is we actually complete information
systems audits. We do cybersecurity audits for the state of
North Carolina. That's an entire team that we have in
our office. And I had the pleasure of sitting in
on what we call an exit interview with the on
our audit of the Employment Security Commission, and they do
have an updated system that's doing pretty well. And short
of that, I don't know that we're really, as we say,
down east cooking with peanut oil on the technology end
in North Carolina.
Speaker 4: But we'll get there.
Speaker 3: We're going to get there, and our office is moving
very quickly. We're rapidly moving into brand new systems that
are secure, that are top notch. I have a fantastic
data analytics team and we brought in some really good
folks to help us get ahead of the curve. I
do not want to be the auditor version of the
D and V in four years where we are so
far behind that it's a startover situation.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Now, the governor vetoed this enabling legislation for the
creation of this Dave Department, and he said he worried
that it could affect the state's economy. He said, quote,
giving the auditor this intrusive power may undermine our state's
efforts to recruit businesses to North Carolina. Do you have
any idea what is he talking about there?
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, so two things. One, he didn't veto the
day that he vetoed what's called our Agency Bill, and
he did say that and what that was. That was
the piece of legislation that enabled us to utilize the
new technology, and he vetoed that. I think he wrongfully
vetoed that, and the legislature promptly overrode his veto and
it is now law giving us that authority. I have
no idea how being transparent and telling the people of
North Carolina how their money is being spent in detail
could possibly hurt the economy of North Carolina. To me,
it's the exact opposite. We want to give businesses and
citizens who live here and who move here the confidence
that their government is operating at the highest level the
most efficiently they can and using their money wisely in
a way that invests the money, not just spends the money.
Speaker 1: And regarding the DMV, he also said, along with I
think the DOT and DMV leaders, they were not on
board with your idea recommendation to to give the DMV
more autonomy. The governor not. He does not apparently agree
with that idea either. What's your reaction to that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, look, it's fine to have disagreements and in
full disclosure with the governor and I get along just
by I mean, you know, and we are able to disagree,
I think very civilly and in a professional manner, and
we do disagree on this may matter. I look at
it more from the business perspective, not from the government perspective.
And it goes back to one of that old say
and Pee. I mean, if you keep doing things the
same way, you're going to keep getting the same result.
And so our team, based on data and look, we
brought in experts from the University of North Carolina at
Chapel Hill, North Carolina State University, and UNC Greensboro to
assist with our audit to give us, you know, some
some expert advice and some and some tools that we
could use, and they were all consistent with the notion
that the DMV needs to be autonomous of the DOT
so that they can be quicker afoot make better decisions
because quite frankly, the d and v's mission is not
as broad or as wide as the DOT as a whole. Look,
they got plenty of roads to build, plenty of bridges
to build, plenty of infrastructure to pay attention to. The
dm V is sort of this other agency that has
a specific focus. And Pete, I'll tell you know, they produce.
The DMV doesn't get state appropriation. They produce their own
revenue two point two billion dollars plus a year in revenue.
They collect another one point three or so billion dollars
in county taxes. And it takes two hundred million dollars
a year to run the DMV in private business. We
call that a ten excerpt, right, that's a profitable business.
And the fact is is that if the DMV can
have more flow flexibility, they could in effect actually increase
their own revenue by adding additional employees, providing incentive programs
for the teams that they have in place to increase production,
and we can additionally explore privatization pilot programs to help
ease this line. Our team formulated the idea of a
pilot program to be like a fast task. Look, we
have toll roads. I know everybody doesn't like toll roads
and I don't either, but it's your choice to take
it or not. And you could pay a little extra
and get right to the front of the line, get
your driver's license. But you get the added bonus of
if you can remove people from the general line who
elect to go to the fast pass lane, that's going to
make the regular line quicker as well. So we've got
our dm V audit. I'm really proud of the work
our team did. It's got some really solid common sense recommendations.
But separating from DOT is number one. They need flexibility.
They need to be fleet of foot. They need to
be able to make decisions without running up the flagpole
to three or four different bureaucratic layers before they take
an action.
Speaker 1: Is that part of the problem though, because they so
much of the money they generate goes to the DOT
that they are the DOT doesn't want to lose control.
Is that what that might that be sort of the
friction point when it comes to the policymakers, the lawmakers.
Speaker 3: Well, first of all, I don't think the lawmakers are
necessarily against separating it. I think we've got a lot
of support in the legislature for separating I do think
there's some angst with DOT about losing complete control of
the revenue, but legislation. You know, look, if that revenue
is needed at DOT, that can be handled through legislation.
You know that that should be just an easy mechanical
fit to get the money to DOT if that's part
of the budget process, and legislature can certainly work that out.
Other than that, I'm not sure what the rubb on
that is. The commissioner I will tell you Paul Time
has given it all he's got and he is a
fantastic person. I've had a great working relationship with him.
He's been very generous with his time and I do
think he's got the right attitude and quite frankly, Secretary
of Transportation Joey Hopkins has had a great attitude as well.
I've been I've enjoyed working with them on this audit.
I'm not really sure where that friction comes from on
not wanting to separate, but you know, look, reasonable minds
can disagree on things, but we're pretty firmed that it
needs to be its own separate agency.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, I've kept you longer than I promised. I
do appreciate your time. Keep up the great work. We
do appreciate it. I appreciate it personally. I think people
in the audience have appreciated it too. We covered your
audit announcement yesterday, so thank you very much. Again, we
appreciated State out of their data.
Speaker 3: Well, I appreciate it. Yeah, forward to being with you.
Speaker 1: Again, absolutely, sir. Anytime, doors always open.
Speaker 3: All right.
Speaker 1: If you're listening to this show, you know I try
to keep up with all sorts of current events, and
I know you do too. And you've probably heard me
say get your news from multiple sources. Why, Well, because
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it's a website, and it combines news from around the
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not only helps my podcast, but it also supports ground
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saw this story, I believe this was Politico. Yes, Politico.
The electronic case filing system used by the federal judiciary
has been breached in a sweeping cyber intrusion that is
believed to have exposed sensitive court data across multiple US states.
According to two people with knowledge of the incident, the hack,
which has not been previously reported, is feared to have
compromised the identities of confidential informants. That seems bad to me.
That does not seem optimal. These confidential informants were involved
in criminal cases at multiple federal district courts. The piece
goes on to say the administs st of Office of
the US Courts, which manage the court filing system, first
determined how serious the issue was around July fourth. Now
there are two different systems. One is called the Case
Management Electronic Case Files, or the CMCF, which legal professionals
use to upload and manage case documents. And then there
is the PACER system, which I have used. That's a
system that gives the public very limited access to the
same data. It's not immediately clear how the hackers got in,
but the incident is known to affect the Judiciary's Federal
Core Case Management System, which includes both of those two
components that I mentioned, the CMECF and the PACER system.
This includes Arkansas, Iowa, Minnesota, Missouri, Nebraska, North Dakota, and
South Dakota. The judges were briefed at a judicial conference
last week in Kansas City. All right, that'll do it
for this episode. Thank you so much for listening. I
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while I'm gone.