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Speaker 1: What is up bella siccos I am Dan Felly coming

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at you with a super brief intro before we get into.

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Speaker 2: A mega podcast.

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Speaker 1: Mike Brown, the head coach of the Sacramento Kings, was

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fired about ninety minutes after Grant and I finished recording

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this two hour plus spot on should these NBA players

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be traded? Focusing on guys where the conversation is a

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little bit more uncomfortable and maybe they're not involved in

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the rumor mail. We talk about the Sacramento Kings and

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other players for I think like ten to fifteen minutes.

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The Mike Brown firing changes absolutely nothing about what we said,

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but anything it might make it even more germane. But

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wanted to give you a heads up for that. And

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now it's just on the onus of This was the

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easy switch for the Kings to make. I don't think

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Mike Brown has been optimizing their roster, but I also

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think that what's going on with them also really is

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a personnel issue, at least to some large extent. We'll

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have further thoughts on that in a few days, but

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just wanted to give you that little note before we

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get started. I now leave you with two plus hours

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of should these NBA players be traded at the twenty

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twenty five deadline chit chat with the one and only

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mister Grant Hughes. What is up, fella, sickos. I'm Dan

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fa Valley coming at you as always with my certified

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fantabulous co host, mister Grant Hughes. We're having I guess, difficult,

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awkward conversations related to the NBA trade deadline. This podcast

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where go check out our trade deadline big board where

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we kind of ranked our most valuable players who were

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most likely to get traded or embroiled in the rumor

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mill and now with one exception, because the rumor mill

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has gone hey wire since we recorded that. We're asking,

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just asking. We're not said we might endorse some of them,

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but we're asking, why aren't these guys more widely available

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or being talked about? And should they be available? That

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is going to be the structure of this episode. First

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and foremost, though, the question everyone wants answered, mister Grant Hughes,

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how the heck are you doing?

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Speaker 2: I'm doing well, I'm happy to be here. How are

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you doing this far? Post CRISP, couple days post Christmas morning.

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Speaker 1: After Sacramento Kings tell you that much.

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Speaker 2: You see. I mean, we're not gonna start there, are we,

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because there's so much to talk about, and we haven't

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really well you've talked about them, but I haven't really

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talked much about them.

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Speaker 1: No, we'll get to we will get to the Kings,

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but this is gonna be done. We're gonna we're gonna

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flirt with some alphabetical order this time, so the Sacramento

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Kings related stuff will come up closer to the end just.

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Speaker 2: Before we jump in, Like, what percentage of the names

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we're gonna mention that almost across the board have not

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been discussed in trades by the deadline, will we see

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credible to semi credible rumors involving them, Because I think

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it's a high percentage.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think if we filter out, so let's just

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remove the Kings from the equation, I think probably like

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thirty percent of these guys they'll be rumors about. And

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as of right now, the way we approach this was

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just some of these names have been mentioned to where

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it's I mean, we're gonna begin with the Hawks, where it's, oh,

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every was talked about DeAndre Hunter. But this isn't like

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years past where it's, oh, the Hawks might be No,

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we've heard about Clint Capella, Like we haven't actually heard

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anything about, Oh, the Hawks are looking to move DeAndre Hunter.

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Maybe we won't, but that's a good question. But I

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would think like a third of these guys will end

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up incredible rumors.

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Speaker 2: And I think like cynically, we can't talk about the

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same three or four guys for another month plus like

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they were just the rumor mill is gonna need to

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be populated by speculative like other additions that are seems

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speculative now, but like we can't keep talking about Jimmy

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Butler and Zach Lavine and just like this city, you know,

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brandon Ingram this same like tiny group that we've been

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talking about for six months probably like that. It's that's

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the other thing is the group of guys that are

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real trade candidates that you know, high high end. It's

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like it feels smaller than it's been in a long time,

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what you know, like it just felt like there used

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to be more.

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Speaker 1: Doesn't it feel a little bit wider than it did

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last year though, because where it was just siakam Adanobi

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and that was it, because the hard and was traded

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so early. I don't remember there being any What was

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the high name, high end name speculation last year?

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Speaker 2: I don't remember last week, Dan, So I don't know.

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I really can't remember who was who was a serious

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trade candidate last year. Good good point, though, I guess.

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I guess if I can't remember, then it must not

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have been that size.

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Speaker 1: So we're giving content to the people who are now

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and I don't actually a lot of people troll. These

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people actually feel bad, but the people who aggregate speculation

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as rumor. So listen to Hardward Not's podcast. We're giving

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you free content that every time I write anything resembling

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maybe a fake trade at bleacher Report, but just about like, oh,

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should this team move this player? It's NBA rumors, Yeah,

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Charlotte Hornet should consider trading Brandon Miller or something. It's

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like I didn't actually write about Brandon Miller.

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Speaker 2: But well even they'll be even like a step farther,

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be like it room in NBA rumors, Insider predicts Zach

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or you know so and so team player X the

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team why And it's like I was just making them

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a fake trade, Like there's no reporting on this at all.

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Speaker 1: There's also it seems like at not ESPN or Bleacher Report,

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and like not even CBS boor to the Ringer, But

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like some of these whatever tier side you put them into,

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this might show that the NBA is in trouble when

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it comes to not marketing players properly. Is that how

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many times are you gonna just come up with fake

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Lebron James or Steph Curry trades, because like those are

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the names that draw attention where it's, oh, these guys

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NBA insider predicts this or this should be, here's this,

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here's how the Boston Celtics can acquire Lebron James, like

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kind of the thumbnail version of just like like the

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colickbait stuff. And it's so we're still just focusing on

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these guys who are in their late thirties because Anthony

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Edwards isn't good enough to be the face of the

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League's what's going on with American basketball?

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Speaker 2: Grant, Big trouble, Big trouble.

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Speaker 1: We begin with the Atlanta Hawk's first name on here, Grant,

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Why isn't Trey Young a trade candidate all of a

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sudden after he was in the speculative fashion last year?

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That was a name where it was, Oh, the Hawks

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should shop Ray Young? What is? What is? Because that

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conversation was happening when they already gave away their first

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round picks. So what has changed that Young's name isn't

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being bandied about? And do you think that his name

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should be being bandied about?

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Speaker 2: That's a great way, great place to start. And I definitely,

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much more than you in the past, have been of

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the mind that, like you just you can't it's not

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gonna work. You can't build a real winner around him

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because the leadership, because of no defense, because of the

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style of play, and it is like I haven't really

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thought of him at all as a trade candidate this season.

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Plenty of other Hawks have and we'll discuss them. Is

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it because I don't know, answer your question with a

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question or just with some some spitball in theories like

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is it because he just, you know, because of the

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pick situation, which means like it's san Antonio or the

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trade doesn't make sense, so it's just like, well, it's

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not gonna be san Antonio apparently, so we're not gonna

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see it. Or is it because the Hawks are like

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kind of fun and have an a young core that

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also includes a number one overall pick that like, it's

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probably not their fourth most exciting prospect, maybe third. I

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guess he's probably their third most exciting prospect. Is it

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just like it doesn't seem as bleak in Atlanta as

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it did, or it seems renewed or fresher because of

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those young guys, So we're not scrambling for a reset.

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I think all that's kind of in play. But that's

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a great point. He has not been discussed almost at

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all in this trade cycle.

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Speaker 1: Do you think he should be.

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Speaker 2: I'm less convinced than I used to be because I

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kind of like the shape of the younger group around him,

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with with Daniels, with Jalen Johnson. They're obviously committed to

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Johnson on a new deal. Resa Chet will be what

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he is and probably won't be a helpful player for

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at least another couple of years. But you know, Capella

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is gonna come off the books suddenly, like there's I

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don't know. I think maybe it's just I like the

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roster around him more and it doesn't feel like it

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needs to be Trey and some like stock supporting pieces.

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Maybe I don't know. I think that's probably part of it.

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Do you do you feel like he's not out there

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and that he should be, or because you were never

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I don't.

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Speaker 1: Think he I thought they should have kept him because

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I just said, well, my whole I still believe this.

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Maybe it's changed because you've seen in Atlanta like build

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about a league average defense, and maybe if you know,

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depending on what split you use, might be a little

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bit better than Lee g average for stretches at a time.

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Maybe that's gonna make some people feel better about giving

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up more for him. But you've already traded away control

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over this year's first round pick, a swap next year

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and then in twenty twenty seven. I don't think you're

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gonna Now if the Spurs were want to give you

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back your own picks, that's the conversation to have. But

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we know that's not going to happen, and so I'm

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more I definitely think the roster's more intriguing because look,

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Jalen Johnson improved again, and then you have Resa say

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you have Dice and Daniels. I think I'm just more

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open to like, all right, the Hawks feel not necessarily

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more financially flexible, but functionally flexible because of Daniels and

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Reese's stay specifically, and by getting rid of de Jonte

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Murray like that did rebalance some of the stuff. I will, however, say,

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I would like, are should they be just content to

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be where they are then? Though, because if you're gonna

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look at it and say, well, we shouldn't be sellers

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because we owe our picks, then shouldn't you be buyers?

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I'm not saying go out and trade for Jimmy Butler,

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although they were a team that I thought be an

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interesting Butler destination depending on the cost. I just like,

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what are you, like? Are you just content to stay

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where you are then? And send away like the you

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know what could end up being the number fifteen pick

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or whatever it is.

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Speaker 2: Well, it's a weird thing too, because if they were

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to be sellers, you could sort of be half of

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a seller or not at all, because you could trade

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I mean, Capella's deals expiring, DeAndre Hunter, someone will probably

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talk about Bogdanovic. All these all these guys should have

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appeal to teams that would be maybe looking to give

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you back draft equity, right or you know, because winners

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would want any of those three guys to be not

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maybe not starters, but like rotation pieces all. You could

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imagine all three of Capella, Bogdanovic and Hunter starting on

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a good team, Like that's that's not you know, out

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of the realm of possibility. So like they could be sellers,

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you but but they're, as we're looking at it today,

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half a game out of sixth and that's trailing the

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Heat and the Bucks and the Magic. You know, they're

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within three games of all those teams. Like, so why

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aren't they, like if they're buyers, what do they even

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go by? Like what they're just in a weird middle spot, right.

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Speaker 1: I think it ends with them just trading for a

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backup point guard type player and then just kind of

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rolling forward.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and they might not have even have done that

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or be positioned to do that if if Kobe Buffkin

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had one been any good or stayed healthy like they

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might they might just be a total stan pat team.

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Speaker 1: Otherwise, well, that's not gonna be good for this teams

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who want this next name that's on our board. But

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DeAndre Hunter we're not that far removed from, at least anecdotally,

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when I would write about I thought teams should take

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a flyer on DeAndre Hunter last year's trade deadline when

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it seemed like he was more available, everyone cited the contract,

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and now he has two years and about forty eight

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million dollars left. It just doesn't feel all that steep

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because he's had one hell of a season. There's always

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gonna be the injury risk there, but he's not a

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name we've seen. We've seen trades proposed for Bogdanovic even

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though he hasn't really been in the rumor mill. And

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then we have reporting that backs up that they want

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to move Clint Capella, which I just find You said

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that he's not an expiring contract, but like for what,

241
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so are you committed to now? Do you just think

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you're not gonna be that much worse without him? Where

243
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do you land on DeAndre Hunter? Should he be available?

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Speaker 2: I think?

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Speaker 1: And by this I don't mean no one's on, very

246
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few players are untouchable, but should they actively be looking

247
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to move on from DeAndre Hunter?

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Speaker 2: So he's an example of like the argument you make

249
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could cut either way, because my first thought is, yeah,

250
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he should be available because this is the best he's

251
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ever played, and you and if you don't believe that,

252
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this is the new status quote for him, which is

253
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averaging over twenty, making forty four percent of his threes,

254
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just like playing like it just looks like a great

255
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starting caliber forward, like or wing. We still can't hammer

256
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out what the differences moving forwards and wings. And if

257
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you if you're concerned about the injuries, which are like

258
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a real thing, that's probably the biggest concern, I would say,

259
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And that's probably why if you really believe in him,

260
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you would probably cite he just hasn't been able to

261
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get healthy stay healthy. He could have been this good

262
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all along. So but if that's if this is how

263
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good he is, then why are you trading this guy?

264
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Because he's on a great contract. You know, it's I

265
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don't know which way that cuts. I would I would

266
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be inclined if Reesa Sha had looked a little better,

267
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like if he had been performing at a level where

268
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you could really say, like, by next year, we're okay

269
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with him as like a plus starter or rotation piece,

270
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which he just isn't right now, I think you'd be

271
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more inclined to trade him. But because Reesa sche kind

272
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of looks like a guy that would be taking tenth

273
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or fifteenth in a normal draft, maybe you just need

274
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hunter and he will be your starter by season's end

275
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or or certainly next year. If risa sche just doesn't

276
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look like a guy, I.

277
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Speaker 1: Normally would say that he should be available. But I

278
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still think that the contract because of his track record,

279
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especially when it comes through availability, I don't know that

280
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it mets you even like a good I could if

281
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I'm running a team, I would give up a good

282
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first for DeAndre Hunter and make that clearer. Yeah, I

283
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don't think around the NBA he's viewed in that vein.

284
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I normally would still say he should be available because

285
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you have Resa Scha, you have Jalen Johnson, and you

286
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have Dyson Daniels, and because of the makeup of your roster,

287
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there's no pathway to really ever playing them together. And

288
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by the way, those four they've played a whopping one

289
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possession together this season. Grant, However, the Hawks have for

290
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now are balancing it out with well, Hunter looks great

291
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off the bench, and they'll close with him over Resa Shay,

292
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and that's just how you balance it out. And maybe

293
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if Resa sha gets so good, that's when it becomes

294
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more of an issue. But that is then a great

295
00:13:42,360 --> 00:13:45,399
problem to have either way, though it's not a problem

296
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they have right now, and I can't. There'll be other

297
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players that I will campaign should be available for, not

298
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campaign specifically, but I will campaign for them to be available.

299
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I just I'm gonna keep circling back to the Atlanta

300
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Hawks draft obligations because you shouldn't be trading for other

301
00:14:02,480 --> 00:14:06,279
teams as draft picks unless there can't miss I understand

302
00:14:06,320 --> 00:14:09,559
you have to build yourself independent of let's call it

303
00:14:09,600 --> 00:14:13,600
that mistake. However, I just don't see the value in well,

304
00:14:13,679 --> 00:14:18,080
let's move DeAndre Hunter for a Memphis Grizzlies first round pick.

305
00:14:18,159 --> 00:14:21,080
Let's say, right salary, Yeah.

306
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Speaker 2: I mean he could be how old is he He's

307
00:14:23,360 --> 00:14:26,279
twenty seven, so I mean he could definitely he's in

308
00:14:26,360 --> 00:14:29,399
the middle of his prime, maybe early early ish, Like,

309
00:14:30,320 --> 00:14:32,960
he could definitely be a piece, a piece of this

310
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core by the time like Johnson takes another step or

311
00:14:36,799 --> 00:14:40,120
maybe Dan like, I think you probably hold onto him,

312
00:14:40,159 --> 00:14:42,759
which is risky though, right for all the reasons we

313
00:14:42,840 --> 00:14:45,080
mentioned you might we might look back at this and think,

314
00:14:45,480 --> 00:14:48,799
remember when we were discussing Atlanta getting a first for

315
00:14:48,840 --> 00:14:51,159
a Hunter or something, you know, he's missed time again

316
00:14:51,240 --> 00:14:53,240
or whatever. I could definitely see the downside of holding

317
00:14:53,240 --> 00:14:53,639
onto him.

318
00:14:53,759 --> 00:14:55,759
Speaker 1: This next player surprises me. You want to take us

319
00:14:55,759 --> 00:14:56,120
to him?

320
00:14:56,399 --> 00:14:59,799
Speaker 2: This is Nick Claxton, just kind of like the for

321
00:15:00,039 --> 00:15:02,679
gotten guy when we're discussing all the players the Nets

322
00:15:02,679 --> 00:15:05,000
could and should trade. I guess that's part of that

323
00:15:05,159 --> 00:15:08,399
is because he recently signed a new deal with him

324
00:15:08,440 --> 00:15:10,960
and is on the younger side, and you know it

325
00:15:11,039 --> 00:15:12,919
has been has kind of been around one of the

326
00:15:12,919 --> 00:15:14,720
few guys that they're thinking of trading that has been

327
00:15:14,759 --> 00:15:18,000
around like during the previous Nets era when they were

328
00:15:18,039 --> 00:15:21,159
really trying to compete and like had some moments, but like,

329
00:15:21,399 --> 00:15:24,360
I don't know that I view him as a is

330
00:15:24,360 --> 00:15:27,600
he a top fifteen starting? Like he's not a core piece.

331
00:15:27,759 --> 00:15:32,200
So I'm just surprised that he hasn't been part of

332
00:15:32,240 --> 00:15:34,919
the broader trade discussion when we're throwing all these other

333
00:15:34,960 --> 00:15:37,440
Nets out there, DFS and Cam Johnson and Shrewder has

334
00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:40,600
already been traded all those guys. Do you agree with that? Like,

335
00:15:40,639 --> 00:15:43,639
and if you do, do you have what is it?

336
00:15:43,759 --> 00:15:46,240
Just because he's viewed as like some kind of separate

337
00:15:46,240 --> 00:15:48,960
class of players from these other guys we talk about.

338
00:15:49,480 --> 00:15:52,879
Speaker 1: I honestly, I would have said I would have argued

339
00:15:52,919 --> 00:15:55,519
the counter at the beginning of the season and said,

340
00:15:55,600 --> 00:15:58,279
I think he's their best trade asset if they were,

341
00:15:58,320 --> 00:16:00,720
like more so than a Cam Johnson or Dennis Shrewder.

342
00:16:01,120 --> 00:16:03,879
And I think this season and by the way, I

343
00:16:03,919 --> 00:16:05,919
think they should absolutely trade him or that he should

344
00:16:05,919 --> 00:16:07,799
be about no one on their roster is untouchable. But

345
00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:10,600
I think you could if your answers no, they shouldn't

346
00:16:10,600 --> 00:16:13,759
trade him, it'd because it feels like his value is dropped.

347
00:16:13,759 --> 00:16:15,759
There was the injuries that he's dealt with this season,

348
00:16:16,080 --> 00:16:17,639
and the other thing is I don't think they've been

349
00:16:17,639 --> 00:16:20,440
creative enough with him on offense. I was expecting to

350
00:16:20,440 --> 00:16:23,279
see his drives per thirty six minutes tick up. They

351
00:16:23,320 --> 00:16:27,159
really haven't. And then also because they've played Ben Simmons

352
00:16:27,159 --> 00:16:31,159
like exclusively, almost exclusively excuse me, as a center, that's

353
00:16:31,240 --> 00:16:33,919
I think impacted his minutes because you're not going to

354
00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:35,799
play him and Ben Simmons in the same front court.

355
00:16:35,840 --> 00:16:38,240
That's just not going to fly. And that's also then

356
00:16:38,320 --> 00:16:41,919
impacted his usage. He's also this might be more about

357
00:16:41,919 --> 00:16:43,879
the shape and scope of their defense in personnel, like

358
00:16:43,919 --> 00:16:48,039
he's contesting like a smaller share of opponent shots when

359
00:16:48,080 --> 00:16:51,120
he's on the court, and so there's been a statistical

360
00:16:51,240 --> 00:16:53,759
and functional and you can see a little bit when

361
00:16:53,799 --> 00:16:55,519
you watch them, but I really do feel like I

362
00:16:55,559 --> 00:16:58,679
don't know how much injuries impacted this. I just feel

363
00:16:58,759 --> 00:17:02,240
like the scope of this roster has not been built

364
00:17:03,080 --> 00:17:06,759
to like booie his trade value this season, and when

365
00:17:06,799 --> 00:17:09,640
you combine that with okay, he's no longer as cheap

366
00:17:09,680 --> 00:17:11,920
as he was last year. He's on this new deal

367
00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:14,759
where he's making you know, twenty plus million per year,

368
00:17:15,400 --> 00:17:17,720
that maybe that's just kind of put cold water on

369
00:17:17,799 --> 00:17:20,680
his value. But like even when he signed that contract,

370
00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:21,920
I think you and I probably say like, oh, that

371
00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:23,680
just looks like a deal that's built to be traded

372
00:17:23,720 --> 00:17:24,240
at this point.

373
00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:26,759
Speaker 2: Right, anything in the twenties, it feels like is and

374
00:17:26,799 --> 00:17:29,640
in this modern cab environment is like, yeah, you could definitely,

375
00:17:29,880 --> 00:17:33,160
that's fine. Any you know, even like the Alex Caruso extension,

376
00:17:34,119 --> 00:17:36,519
Michael a little long into his decline phase, but it's like, hey,

377
00:17:36,559 --> 00:17:39,279
it's in the twenties. That's movable. That's not it's funny,

378
00:17:39,359 --> 00:17:41,640
it's that that's the new cutoff. Yeah. I think it's

379
00:17:41,640 --> 00:17:43,839
a combination of things. Like you mentioned, he just hasn't

380
00:17:43,839 --> 00:17:46,799
been I don't know I feel like offensively he's so

381
00:17:46,920 --> 00:17:49,599
limited and like still can't make a free throw that

382
00:17:49,640 --> 00:17:52,240
it's like good teams are gonna think really hard about

383
00:17:52,279 --> 00:17:54,519
we're gonna spend this much to get a guy that

384
00:17:55,400 --> 00:17:57,039
probably can't be on the floor at the end of

385
00:17:57,079 --> 00:17:59,759
close games, or it just has that complication thrown in there.

386
00:18:00,240 --> 00:18:03,440
Has not developed any kind of shot. You know, is

387
00:18:03,480 --> 00:18:05,519
a top ten dpo y guy just a couple of

388
00:18:05,559 --> 00:18:08,000
years ago, So there's real utility with him.

389
00:18:08,480 --> 00:18:10,680
Speaker 1: The switch ability is certainly still there, for sure.

390
00:18:10,720 --> 00:18:13,400
Speaker 2: I think I think there's there's definitely a there are

391
00:18:13,519 --> 00:18:16,279
use cases for him. I think I think really though,

392
00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:18,319
is the combo of the contract and he's just not

393
00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:22,039
in a spot where it's easy to see him being

394
00:18:22,039 --> 00:18:25,039
his best self because of what's going on around him

395
00:18:25,359 --> 00:18:26,880
in Brooklyn.

396
00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:28,599
Speaker 1: And you're no longer you wouldn't move him as part

397
00:18:28,640 --> 00:18:30,799
of taking I guess there's still teams that would prefer

398
00:18:30,839 --> 00:18:32,880
his contract to what they're sending out. But because he

399
00:18:32,960 --> 00:18:35,759
signed for three more years, it's not like, oh, we're

400
00:18:35,759 --> 00:18:38,720
giving you this short term deal and taking back a lot,

401
00:18:38,799 --> 00:18:41,440
Like you're not taking back a longer contract than Nicholas

402
00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:44,000
Claxton trade. So it's not going to be a selling

403
00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:46,440
point there. And if you're the Nets, okay, you should

404
00:18:46,480 --> 00:18:47,799
be able to get a first round pick for him,

405
00:18:47,799 --> 00:18:49,960
I would think, But that might be it's a first

406
00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:53,240
round pick and then expiring salary. Whatever is it worth

407
00:18:53,240 --> 00:18:55,599
moving him at that point? He should I still think

408
00:18:55,640 --> 00:18:58,640
he should be more involved in I do wonder though,

409
00:18:58,920 --> 00:19:02,519
how much the Pelican trajectory also impacted his trade value

410
00:19:02,519 --> 00:19:04,519
where it was we kind of knew that Jared Allen

411
00:19:04,519 --> 00:19:06,240
will be off limits at some point because we I

412
00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:07,680
think we all thought the Cows are going to be

413
00:19:07,680 --> 00:19:09,359
better than a lot of people. Not this good, but

414
00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:11,920
better than most expected. And you kind of circled the

415
00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:14,039
Nick Claxton as, oh, like New Orleans is going to

416
00:19:14,119 --> 00:19:15,680
go and like actually trying to make a trade for

417
00:19:15,720 --> 00:19:17,960
a five now they have no business doing that.

418
00:19:18,319 --> 00:19:21,240
Speaker 2: Yeah right, And that's trying to think where else really

419
00:19:21,279 --> 00:19:24,400
needed a center in New Orleans was obviously they still be.

420
00:19:24,359 --> 00:19:26,880
Speaker 1: Really interesting in Charlotte, but again, like that's not a

421
00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:29,839
team that's going to give you one of their first.

422
00:19:29,960 --> 00:19:32,160
Speaker 2: Yeah right, they're too similar, They're kind of they're not

423
00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:35,039
in Brooklyn's boat necessarily, but for a couple like they

424
00:19:35,119 --> 00:19:37,599
have a cornerstone ish player that we'll probably talk about,

425
00:19:38,119 --> 00:19:40,319
and they're not as pick poor. But yeah, like that

426
00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:43,160
doesn't like why are you taking on? Like I think,

427
00:19:43,160 --> 00:19:46,119
if if you're a team like Charlotte, you want a

428
00:19:46,119 --> 00:19:49,759
player that's fairly close to Claxton that's making like seven

429
00:19:49,799 --> 00:19:51,960
million dollars a year, you can't be paying into the

430
00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:53,920
high twenties as that deal goes on if you're in

431
00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:55,119
Charlotte's position.

432
00:19:55,359 --> 00:19:58,319
Speaker 1: Julius random for Nick Claxton. What does Minnesota attach a

433
00:19:58,359 --> 00:20:00,839
second there and get it done? No, maybe I would

434
00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:02,559
do that. I aspiring money.

435
00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:04,920
Speaker 2: If I'm Minnesota, I'm I'm jumping at that.

436
00:20:05,920 --> 00:20:09,480
Speaker 1: Now they'll just have three centers again with Claxton, Reed

437
00:20:09,680 --> 00:20:10,519
and Gobert.

438
00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:11,319
Speaker 2: You know it works.

439
00:20:12,160 --> 00:20:15,519
Speaker 1: Next up, we have LaMelo Ball, more of a spicier name.

440
00:20:16,200 --> 00:20:19,279
We're I would say we're both LaMelo Ball fans. Maybe

441
00:20:19,319 --> 00:20:21,839
I'm higher on him than you are. Do you find

442
00:20:21,880 --> 00:20:25,799
it interesting that he's not even like kind of sorta

443
00:20:26,079 --> 00:20:29,119
in the rumor mil given that Charlotte is once again

444
00:20:29,279 --> 00:20:30,519
just kind of in the sub middle.

445
00:20:30,920 --> 00:20:33,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think. And he's one of those names that

446
00:20:33,359 --> 00:20:37,599
I think, well, so if he doesn't, if he doesn't

447
00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:40,920
really become more common in the rumor mill. It'll be

448
00:20:40,920 --> 00:20:43,240
because Charlotte has to come out and say we're not

449
00:20:43,359 --> 00:20:45,440
interested in trading women, like we're gonna get one of

450
00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:49,200
those things. Maybe both start to hear whispers and or

451
00:20:49,599 --> 00:20:53,799
Charlotte will say will leak not they're not trading him

452
00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:57,279
because I think his name should be out there. So

453
00:20:58,519 --> 00:21:01,720
I think if you had him on the market, his

454
00:21:01,839 --> 00:21:05,480
market value, like the expected return, would just be higher

455
00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:08,319
than you have than you could attach to any of

456
00:21:08,359 --> 00:21:11,000
the other names that have been like commonly discussed. Because

457
00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:14,079
he's younger, he's under contract for that's a big contract.

458
00:21:14,319 --> 00:21:16,079
But if you believe that he can be the best

459
00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:18,799
offensive player, the driver of an offense on like a

460
00:21:18,839 --> 00:21:20,960
good team, which there's quite a bit of evidence to

461
00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:25,960
suggest that's that's possible, then that's where you could talk

462
00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:31,799
about multiple young assets matching salary three firsts, like you know,

463
00:21:31,839 --> 00:21:33,720
two or two or three like good ones.

464
00:21:33,799 --> 00:21:36,680
Speaker 1: At least probably you're getting a wrong person. I would

465
00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:38,599
absolutely give up the equivalent of three first round pick.

466
00:21:39,680 --> 00:21:42,079
Speaker 2: I think I think for the right team that like

467
00:21:42,799 --> 00:21:45,599
his upside as as a guy that could do the

468
00:21:45,640 --> 00:21:47,680
hardest thing there is to do, which is drive really

469
00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:52,079
good offense by himself, like that's valuable. And from Charlotte's perspective,

470
00:21:52,119 --> 00:21:56,440
I think you you might just think about, like, are

471
00:21:56,440 --> 00:21:58,680
we sure we want to build around this guy? I

472
00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:00,680
guess the argument you'd make for putting him on the

473
00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:04,000
market is that as the singular cornerstone of a young team,

474
00:22:04,319 --> 00:22:06,160
I don't know that you love it. But if you

475
00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:09,319
insert him onto a slightly more established team, we'll just

476
00:22:09,359 --> 00:22:12,640
say it like an Orlando where hit like his skills

477
00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:16,640
fit and there's a preset culture already that he's not setting,

478
00:22:17,039 --> 00:22:20,480
then I think, like, that's everybody wins there. I think

479
00:22:20,519 --> 00:22:22,640
so that that, to me is the main reason why

480
00:22:22,839 --> 00:22:23,759
I think he should.

481
00:22:23,480 --> 00:22:26,160
Speaker 1: Be out there. I would agree, I think he should be.

482
00:22:26,319 --> 00:22:28,720
I actually wonder if not that they missed their window,

483
00:22:28,759 --> 00:22:32,119
but if tarn Fox is really available like that, because

484
00:22:32,119 --> 00:22:33,839
I feel like they could have maybe defined the trade

485
00:22:33,839 --> 00:22:37,279
window more if he was available. Because of the names

486
00:22:37,279 --> 00:22:40,960
we mentioned or most commonly mentioned Zion Ingram, Jimmy Butler,

487
00:22:41,319 --> 00:22:44,359
Zach Lavine, I think Lamello would pretty clearly get the

488
00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:47,960
biggest offer of those, right, I think so, But now

489
00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:49,880
you throw dearon Fox into the equation. I know that

490
00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:52,559
his contract is shorter. But I do think as of

491
00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:54,400
right now, it's pretty clear that Daron Fox is the

492
00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:58,680
more valuable player. Does that well, okay, well, if we're

493
00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:00,599
gonna give up this much for LaMelo, would it make

494
00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:02,400
for us? Would it make more sense to give up

495
00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:04,440
a little bit more just as much for Dearon Fox.

496
00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:08,240
And the other thing too, is he's not hurting their

497
00:23:08,839 --> 00:23:11,200
like theyre's still there's as we record this that they're

498
00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:14,519
like eighteen or sixteen games under five hundred, so they

499
00:23:14,519 --> 00:23:16,799
can be bad with him. He's missed some time, of course,

500
00:23:16,839 --> 00:23:19,000
and that's the other thing that factors into his trade value.

501
00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:23,319
I do think you're approaching an interesting stage as Charlotte

502
00:23:23,359 --> 00:23:25,599
where it's, okay, it might be cool to now say

503
00:23:25,599 --> 00:23:28,799
we have Brandon Miller LaMelo and we're gonna get another

504
00:23:28,839 --> 00:23:31,279
really good draft pick here. But I think this is

505
00:23:31,319 --> 00:23:34,039
the last season that you could say that, because then

506
00:23:34,079 --> 00:23:39,079
we're getting into all right, he's entering the second year

507
00:23:39,079 --> 00:23:41,200
of his MAX deal, Like you need to start acting

508
00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:44,200
like a franchise that either wants to accelerate your position.

509
00:23:44,519 --> 00:23:47,240
And by the way, like we don't know long term

510
00:23:47,279 --> 00:23:49,200
what t Jon Salon is gonna turn into but like

511
00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:52,039
he hasn't jumped off the page this year of anything

512
00:23:52,079 --> 00:23:52,680
I've seen.

513
00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:55,079
Speaker 2: With him, it's so far down the road like he

514
00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:57,599
might you might not have that idea of what that's

515
00:23:57,599 --> 00:23:59,759
gonna look like until LaMelo is in like the last

516
00:24:00,279 --> 00:24:03,000
of his current rookie Max, Like it's just it's gonna

517
00:24:03,039 --> 00:24:03,960
take forever, and.

518
00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:06,240
Speaker 1: Then Mark Williams will look good. But there's always we're

519
00:24:06,279 --> 00:24:08,119
waiting for the other shoe to drop with him, just

520
00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:11,240
like on's he going to be injured again? So I

521
00:24:11,319 --> 00:24:13,119
would make him available. I'm not saying they have to

522
00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:16,160
move in, but he's absolutely I think a name as

523
00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:18,160
Charlotte that right, I'm shopping. It's not that I don't

524
00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:20,319
think if it's a Brandon Miller. I'm just starting to wonder,

525
00:24:20,319 --> 00:24:22,799
like what is the endgame here, right Charlotte.

526
00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:25,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's a little bit like some of my

527
00:24:26,079 --> 00:24:28,680
logic for when I would talk about the Hawks trading

528
00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:32,480
Tray Young would apply minus the like he's taking them

529
00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:35,480
to a conference an asterisk conference conference finals, but like

530
00:24:35,799 --> 00:24:38,119
it it's a little bit of like what are we

531
00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:41,279
really doing with this guy as the centerpiece? And and

532
00:24:41,319 --> 00:24:43,079
we're not there yet with Omelo. To be clear, I

533
00:24:43,119 --> 00:24:45,039
don't think you're saying that either, but it's like it's

534
00:24:45,039 --> 00:24:46,839
not that far off actually where you just have to

535
00:24:46,839 --> 00:24:47,880
start asking that question.

536
00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:51,559
Speaker 1: And he also feels like the what like the widest

537
00:24:51,559 --> 00:24:54,319
scope of potential destinations, because there might be teams that

538
00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:57,599
are okay, they're not ready to contend, but they still want.

539
00:24:57,640 --> 00:24:59,319
Like he's young, he's under a contrable, like we could

540
00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:01,000
rattle off like a bunch of teams that I would

541
00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:04,000
say should be Golden State, Houston should absolutely be in

542
00:25:04,039 --> 00:25:06,079
on him, Orlando. You already mentioned one of them, Like

543
00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:08,680
the list would just go on. And so do you

544
00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:11,960
think we'll hear his name mentioned incredible rumors by by

545
00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:12,519
the deadline?

546
00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:15,160
Speaker 2: No, I think I'm gonna couch it and say, like

547
00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:18,400
I said, I think we'll it's possible we'll hear it whispered,

548
00:25:19,079 --> 00:25:22,119
and then Charlotte will get out there that like we're

549
00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:25,599
not we're not looking to trade him after probably listening

550
00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:27,200
to offers.

551
00:25:26,839 --> 00:25:28,359
Speaker 1: Who we got next, mister Hughes.

552
00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:31,960
Speaker 2: This is Kobe White. He is does not fall into

553
00:25:32,039 --> 00:25:35,799
the must trade category for the Bulls, which is populated

554
00:25:35,799 --> 00:25:39,319
by Zach Lavine and Nick fuchovic I. Guess that's probably it.

555
00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:42,799
They've got all types of they have every flavor of

556
00:25:43,519 --> 00:25:46,359
this guy should be traded players. Kobe White is just

557
00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:49,880
he's a good offensive player. I think he's probably not

558
00:25:50,079 --> 00:25:52,559
your lead ball handler on a like as a starter

559
00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:54,720
for like a really good high end team, but he

560
00:25:54,799 --> 00:25:57,400
might be close to that, and if surrounded by better players,

561
00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:01,960
maybe he does get there really good contract. The concerns,

562
00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:05,119
as we've mentioned for Chicago many times, are you probably

563
00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:07,200
can't extend him off of this number, so he's gonna

564
00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:09,400
hit free agency, and if you want to mitigate some

565
00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:13,119
of that risk, you should be thinking about moving him.

566
00:26:13,519 --> 00:26:15,839
And then just as a broader, like we're tearing this

567
00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:19,079
thing down to the studs kind of thing, I think he.

568
00:26:19,079 --> 00:26:22,359
Speaker 1: Should absolutely be available because his trade value might have

569
00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:25,799
peaked over the summer, it's certainly going to peak by

570
00:26:25,839 --> 00:26:27,839
the true You're never going to get more for Kobe

571
00:26:27,839 --> 00:26:29,400
White than you are right now. And I think you

572
00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:31,160
could say that every day at.

573
00:26:31,079 --> 00:26:33,440
Speaker 2: The every day gets less basically right.

574
00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:37,359
Speaker 1: And the problem is for the Bulls specifically, is that

575
00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:40,039
he's not extending off this cor Like if he signs

576
00:26:40,079 --> 00:26:43,200
an extension off this contract, it's about what an eighteen

577
00:26:43,319 --> 00:26:45,880
nineteen million dollars South, Like he's not signing for that,

578
00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:48,519
he's too good for that. Now you could still pay him,

579
00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:50,680
but you're not going to be good enough by the

580
00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:53,799
time he interest Fry agency to feel comfortable or maybe

581
00:26:53,839 --> 00:26:55,720
they view this as they are right now, is good

582
00:26:55,799 --> 00:26:58,119
enough contending for a play and spot in the east.

583
00:26:58,359 --> 00:27:01,559
That then is a whole separate problem we need to discuss.

584
00:27:02,839 --> 00:27:04,759
He should be moved like it just doesn't make any

585
00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:07,640
because he can't be and that's not an insult, but

586
00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:11,079
because he's not going to be your directional force, like

587
00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:13,200
what are you doing here? And as of right now,

588
00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:17,200
they get more than the equivalent of two first round

589
00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:21,680
picks for him, right, Oh man, well so you like

590
00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:24,799
a third first, but it's you get two. You get

591
00:27:24,839 --> 00:27:27,240
two firsts and it's not like, oh, you have to

592
00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:28,640
take back this shitty ass deal.

593
00:27:29,079 --> 00:27:31,480
Speaker 2: Right. But I think the thing is he comes with

594
00:27:31,599 --> 00:27:34,079
the same like the concerns follow him where it's like

595
00:27:34,359 --> 00:27:36,319
he's probably going to go to free agency with us

596
00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:38,799
if we acquire him, because with the extension, the same

597
00:27:38,799 --> 00:27:41,599
extension arguments supply, I think you could probably get a

598
00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:44,519
first I don't know if I'm giving up two for

599
00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:48,359
him because you're right that the contract is so like,

600
00:27:48,799 --> 00:27:51,200
it's just such a such a bargain for how good

601
00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:53,519
of a player he is. But are you giving up

602
00:27:53,559 --> 00:27:56,799
to multiple first round assets if in the summer of

603
00:27:57,039 --> 00:28:00,519
twenty six he just is bound to hit up restricted

604
00:28:00,519 --> 00:28:02,920
free agency? Because you know what I mean? Like that

605
00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:03,759
that concerns me.

606
00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:06,039
Speaker 1: I would say yeah, Like so if you want to

607
00:28:06,079 --> 00:28:09,279
say now, I think the third first or the additional

608
00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:13,039
sweetener would be worth discussion. I'm giving up two first

609
00:28:13,039 --> 00:28:16,759
for Kobe White, especially based off one you probably have

610
00:28:16,799 --> 00:28:18,359
an idea of how much he will cost you or

611
00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:20,240
whether he wants to be there for one, like you're

612
00:28:20,279 --> 00:28:22,799
not training for him without having that knowledge. And then two,

613
00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:25,400
what about the way free agency is unfolded the past

614
00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:28,000
two or three years makes you think that any player

615
00:28:28,079 --> 00:28:30,160
or a team actively wants as a flight risk that

616
00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:32,920
you like that you already have is so, Yeah, there

617
00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:34,960
might be more of a market because he's younger, but

618
00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:37,839
the days of kind of like these teams carving out

619
00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:41,559
Max money, there might always be one threat. But look

620
00:28:41,599 --> 00:28:43,640
at what the Sixers did this past year, Like it

621
00:28:43,759 --> 00:28:46,160
was a no brainer Max guy in Maybe some people

622
00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:47,759
didn't consider him a no brainer. But it was, Oh

623
00:28:47,759 --> 00:28:49,720
you knew Paul George was basically gonna get the max.

624
00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:51,279
Kobe White is not that player.

625
00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:54,680
Speaker 2: No, No, that's true, that's that's true. I just man,

626
00:28:54,759 --> 00:28:56,160
I don't I don't know. I don't feel like I

627
00:28:56,240 --> 00:28:58,559
know what It used to be so simple? What what

628
00:28:58,599 --> 00:29:02,000
would what the cost of a like what it took

629
00:29:02,039 --> 00:29:04,240
to get a first back. It used to be fairly clear,

630
00:29:04,279 --> 00:29:07,680
like if they're a six man or better, or rotation

631
00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:10,200
or better, you can get a first like the Boyam

632
00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:13,160
Bogdanovich rule a few years ago. But now I don't know.

633
00:29:13,559 --> 00:29:15,480
Speaker 1: I also think there's just enough team like if San

634
00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:18,039
Antonio or Houston wanted him, like you could include two

635
00:29:18,039 --> 00:29:20,519
first without really breaking any draft pick bank.

636
00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:23,599
Speaker 2: That's true, and I think too, like kind of ironically,

637
00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:26,839
if you're a team that feels like you need a

638
00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:29,240
Zach Levine type but the price is putting you off,

639
00:29:29,279 --> 00:29:31,359
Like there's Kobe White right there. He's gonna give you

640
00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:34,759
a lot of similar stuff, like more on ball stuff probably,

641
00:29:34,799 --> 00:29:37,839
but can shoot. It is just an offensive upgrade that

642
00:29:38,039 --> 00:29:40,920
isn't gonna cost you forty plus million bucks. You know that?

643
00:29:41,359 --> 00:29:44,559
Just that feels like He's just such a good alternative

644
00:29:44,599 --> 00:29:46,160
to those higher priced guys.

645
00:29:46,519 --> 00:29:48,160
Speaker 1: Do you know what also makes it tough because I

646
00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:49,839
think there are teams that like, So let's use the

647
00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:52,400
Clippers as an example. If they offered let's just say PJ.

648
00:29:52,559 --> 00:29:56,680
Tucker or Terrence Man and their twenty thirty first round pick,

649
00:29:57,359 --> 00:29:59,799
that twenty thirty first round pick. It's only one first

650
00:29:59,880 --> 00:30:04,480
roun round pick, but look at how the Clippers are built. Yeah,

651
00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:07,599
now that in a vacuum, that's super valuable. But now,

652
00:30:07,599 --> 00:30:11,119
if you're ak in Chicago, you know you're not going

653
00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:13,880
to be the person making that pick. And it also

654
00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:16,119
doesn't convey for so long that even if you are short,

655
00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:18,640
like even if this was Oklahoma City and Sam Presty

656
00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:22,240
has the utmost job security, you're not getting anything me

657
00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:24,519
especially if it's Tucker. If it's Man, you could say, well,

658
00:30:24,559 --> 00:30:26,799
like he could play some defense and sometimes he's good

659
00:30:26,799 --> 00:30:30,680
on offense. But that's what also complicates I think trade discussion,

660
00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:32,000
that there might be some teams that are willing to

661
00:30:32,039 --> 00:30:35,039
give what should be these blue chip future first rounders,

662
00:30:35,079 --> 00:30:37,359
but they're so far into the future. How does the

663
00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:40,200
team that's acquiring them actively view them.

664
00:30:40,359 --> 00:30:43,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's always that's always a hang up right just

665
00:30:43,079 --> 00:30:44,920
right down to like the first thing you mentioned of

666
00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:48,400
the executive what do I care? Like this is how

667
00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:51,440
does having at seven years down the road first round

668
00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:53,279
er improve my job security?

669
00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:55,799
Speaker 1: Like you very rarely see what the Spurs did with

670
00:30:55,920 --> 00:30:58,319
Rob Dillingham. Where was That's the only thing they got

671
00:30:58,319 --> 00:31:02,279
back was control over Minnesota's draft picks six years into

672
00:31:02,319 --> 00:31:05,240
the future, basically, and that was a good trade for them. Yeah,

673
00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:07,319
but it's it takes a level of foresight that not

674
00:31:07,559 --> 00:31:10,240
certainly not the Bulls are to be committed to it.

675
00:31:10,319 --> 00:31:13,039
Speaker 2: Well, and that one talking about Tim Connolly, that was

676
00:31:13,079 --> 00:31:15,319
made by a guy that's basically got the clout to

677
00:31:15,359 --> 00:31:17,799
be on like a one plus one in perpetuity with

678
00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:21,000
the organization. That's he's he's got so much leverage.

679
00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:23,000
Speaker 1: We're sticking with you for this next player.

680
00:31:23,079 --> 00:31:27,559
Speaker 2: Grant oh Man, Why okay, this is Josh Giddy. Good

681
00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:30,960
luck pegging this value because I don't have any idea

682
00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:33,960
like he's worth Alex Caruso apparently, who got a four

683
00:31:34,079 --> 00:31:38,759
for eighty one extension, but like he's got you've got

684
00:31:38,759 --> 00:31:41,839
restricted free agency, which I guess if you're the Bulls,

685
00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:44,160
you can just you know, play play that game of

686
00:31:44,279 --> 00:31:47,240
chicken and decide what he's worth to you after the

687
00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:51,880
market tells you. I just like, why aren't you looking

688
00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:54,119
at what you could get for him and just avoid

689
00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:57,000
having I think it's just the optics, right that that's

690
00:31:57,000 --> 00:31:59,079
got to be the main reason. It's just like you

691
00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:01,720
blew it by taking him back in the Cruso deal,

692
00:32:01,799 --> 00:32:03,799
and now trading him right away is just like a

693
00:32:03,839 --> 00:32:07,599
second failure, you know, in close proximity to the first.

694
00:32:07,559 --> 00:32:09,359
Speaker 1: Because there's no team that's giving you a first round

695
00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:11,279
pick for Josh Gidty, right, and so at that point

696
00:32:11,319 --> 00:32:13,839
then you're I know, we've had a lot of people

697
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:17,359
on Twitter and YouTube saying just like no, that Josh

698
00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:19,200
Getty trade was fine, Like you weren't gonna get first

699
00:32:19,279 --> 00:32:21,920
Roulex Caruso. We know for a fact, like there was.

700
00:32:22,039 --> 00:32:23,559
You want to debate whether it was ever two first

701
00:32:23,599 --> 00:32:25,119
round picks available, I'll tell you for a fact there

702
00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:27,480
was a first round pick at the time, and even

703
00:32:27,519 --> 00:32:30,039
beforehand we knew there was more. And it's just even

704
00:32:30,079 --> 00:32:32,519
with Caruso's age and you worry about his injuries and

705
00:32:32,559 --> 00:32:35,079
his minutes cap, do you feel more comfortable. Let's say

706
00:32:35,079 --> 00:32:37,400
they get the same deal, who do you want for

707
00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:40,079
the next four years? Even looking at Josh getting like

708
00:32:40,079 --> 00:32:42,599
who do you feel comfortable paying over that period of

709
00:32:42,599 --> 00:32:44,920
time the same amount of money? And that's assuming he

710
00:32:45,039 --> 00:32:49,000
takes four Forrady or whatever it ends up being well.

711
00:32:48,839 --> 00:32:54,000
Speaker 2: Like I think if you I guess, I we didn't

712
00:32:54,079 --> 00:32:56,759
like the return for Cruso. I do think at the

713
00:32:56,799 --> 00:32:58,799
time there was a case to be made that, like

714
00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:02,799
Giddy's really young, like he might improve, So it's like

715
00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:04,799
this is better than like this guy was what was

716
00:33:04,839 --> 00:33:07,440
he the sixth pick in his draft class and he

717
00:33:07,519 --> 00:33:09,559
was young for the class, so it's like we're just

718
00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:12,519
banking on the upside. That was fine to say then

719
00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:15,119
based on how he's played this season and this is

720
00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:19,799
it like sneakily this is his fourth year, Like that

721
00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:22,559
didn't pan out. We're not seeing signs that he's gonna

722
00:33:22,599 --> 00:33:24,599
be someone that's gonna be good enough off the ball

723
00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:27,400
and that can defend. And just like the counting stats

724
00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:29,359
are cool if you're in a roto league, I guess,

725
00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:32,000
And that's kind of like I think, honestly, honestly, I

726
00:33:32,079 --> 00:33:34,480
think that a lot like way too often skews our

727
00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:38,079
evaluations of players is just like the fantasy stuff. There's

728
00:33:38,079 --> 00:33:40,279
a whole class of fans that are like, Josh Gitty's

729
00:33:40,279 --> 00:33:42,960
actually good because he's like eleven, six and six, that's

730
00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:47,319
hard to find. I just I think if you can

731
00:33:47,319 --> 00:33:50,240
get anything for him, I think you do it as

732
00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:52,960
long as you're not taking you know, yeah, I just like,

733
00:33:53,039 --> 00:33:55,240
I don't think there's a future for him on the Bulls.

734
00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:57,720
But then what team is gonna Maybe it just takes

735
00:33:57,759 --> 00:34:01,000
another team just zooming out and saying this is his

736
00:34:01,039 --> 00:34:03,920
age twenty two season. He was picked high for a reason.

737
00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:06,960
We've seen him be productive, Like maybe maybe he's a

738
00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:09,280
third draft guy and not a second draft guy. Well,

739
00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:10,920
well we'll give you something for him. You should at

740
00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:12,800
least be looking if you're the Bulls.

741
00:34:12,599 --> 00:34:14,400
Speaker 1: It's yeah, you should be looking at him. Being injured

742
00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:16,119
right now certainly doesn't help things. But we know they're

743
00:34:16,159 --> 00:34:18,920
not gonna look just because there you said you said

744
00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:21,000
at the top, the it's the optics. I think for

745
00:34:21,079 --> 00:34:24,719
this our next name on the board is well, two names.

746
00:34:25,519 --> 00:34:28,320
Why aren't Jade and Ivy and Jalen Duran more involved

747
00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:30,400
in trade rumors? I'm probably more curious for I know

748
00:34:30,599 --> 00:34:33,639
that Piston's fans seems split on Jalen Duran a lot,

749
00:34:33,679 --> 00:34:36,639
and their defense has been a lot better without him

750
00:34:36,679 --> 00:34:40,800
on the court this year. But I'm more like interested

751
00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:43,239
in the Ivy of it all to where even when

752
00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:45,440
he's been and since he's come back from injury's he's

753
00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:48,199
been okay, it just feels like the offense is better

754
00:34:48,239 --> 00:34:50,880
when he's not like him playing next to Kate okay

755
00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:53,000
is fine, but he's not going to be the guy

756
00:34:53,039 --> 00:34:56,719
that then is able to lead the minutes independent of CAD.

757
00:34:56,800 --> 00:34:58,920
And so I'm wondering. I think you could make a

758
00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:01,719
case both ways where it's franchises hold on to players

759
00:35:02,119 --> 00:35:05,119
for too long, like we should advocate for them trading

760
00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:07,800
like guys when they're in year two rather than waiting

761
00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:09,800
until year three or four after that. And just if

762
00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:12,440
you don't think he's it, But then you mentioned the

763
00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:14,679
word before optics of what if Jade and Ivy has

764
00:35:14,719 --> 00:35:17,639
traded and he just pops. I had pushed back from

765
00:35:17,639 --> 00:35:20,639
Pistons fans. I proposed it was THHJ. I don't know

766
00:35:20,639 --> 00:35:22,719
what the other small contract and Jay and Ivy for

767
00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:25,440
Zach Lavine, I absolutely do that trade. And I know

768
00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:26,760
that for a fact that there's just a ton of

769
00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:30,119
Pistons fans that won't And so these two names specifically,

770
00:35:30,119 --> 00:35:31,559
but even the Jay and Ivy of it all, where

771
00:35:31,559 --> 00:35:32,280
do you sort of land?

772
00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:36,000
Speaker 2: Yeah? I so we we tabbed him. I think probably

773
00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:38,119
I led this charge more so than you did about

774
00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:40,480
as one of the more improved players this year. The

775
00:35:40,519 --> 00:35:43,239
shooting has been very like, shooting has been good enough.

776
00:35:43,239 --> 00:35:45,559
And if you came into the season with I mean

777
00:35:45,599 --> 00:35:47,599
the over the biggest question is like what's the fit

778
00:35:47,639 --> 00:35:51,880
with Kid? And but but like tied deeply, tied strongly

779
00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:54,360
with that was can he can he make enough threes

780
00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:56,320
to be off the ball? Because you'd rather have Kid

781
00:35:56,360 --> 00:35:58,519
be on it. Now in a perfect world, what he

782
00:35:58,559 --> 00:36:01,199
would develop into is an on ball like pick and

783
00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:03,719
roll ball handler, driver of offense because I do think

784
00:36:04,039 --> 00:36:07,719
Kate is overtasked as like a absolute one a guy.

785
00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:12,239
But I think if you're the Pistons, the reason he's

786
00:36:12,239 --> 00:36:14,880
not out there are the optics. And it's also just

787
00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:18,000
like it's so scary to give up this early and

788
00:36:18,039 --> 00:36:20,000
it's not giving up, but it's like you are put

789
00:36:20,039 --> 00:36:22,840
to a decision on a guy that is you know

790
00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:25,440
he's gonna be extension eligible. That's this is age twenty

791
00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:28,599
two season. He's gonna get a lot better over the

792
00:36:28,639 --> 00:36:30,760
next three to five years. Like by the time Jade

793
00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:32,719
and Ivy's twenty eight, who knows what he's gonna be.

794
00:36:33,039 --> 00:36:36,679
And I think the fear same with Duran. The fear

795
00:36:36,719 --> 00:36:40,119
is just like, if we do this now, we're not

796
00:36:40,199 --> 00:36:42,199
gonna get the guy's best years And what was the

797
00:36:42,199 --> 00:36:44,199
point of drafting him if we don't keep him around

798
00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:46,280
to get the best version of him. So I think

799
00:36:46,280 --> 00:36:48,400
it's just that it's like a simple thing that affects

800
00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:50,880
every team that has a young player they drafted high.

801
00:36:51,239 --> 00:36:54,159
It's just like we were You're you're always gonna overrate

802
00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:57,199
those guys. You're always gonna assume improvements there sometimes you're right,

803
00:36:57,599 --> 00:36:59,159
and you just want to be the team to like

804
00:36:59,239 --> 00:37:01,360
reap the benefit. I think, I don't know, it's just

805
00:37:01,719 --> 00:37:04,199
that that's most of it with guys in this boat

806
00:37:04,199 --> 00:37:08,639
where it's recent lottery picks have shown some talent just

807
00:37:08,719 --> 00:37:12,159
aren't helpful on a winning team yet, but like could

808
00:37:12,239 --> 00:37:13,679
get there, you know what I mean, Like, it's just

809
00:37:13,719 --> 00:37:15,880
you don't want to cut bait before you have to.

810
00:37:16,199 --> 00:37:18,159
I'm not saying they shouldn't trade him. I'm just saying,

811
00:37:18,199 --> 00:37:20,719
like that to me, is the logic for why he's

812
00:37:20,760 --> 00:37:21,360
not out there.

813
00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:24,320
Speaker 1: They're just I don't know. I thought maybe that wouldn't

814
00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:26,679
be in play as much because this front office didn't

815
00:37:26,719 --> 00:37:29,519
draft him. Bro durrant I thought that could become a factor.

816
00:37:29,559 --> 00:37:31,800
And look, they're in the sixty third percent tile of offense

817
00:37:31,760 --> 00:37:34,239
when he plays with Kid, they're the twenty eighth percent

818
00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:37,320
tile without Kid and he plays. I'm not saying the

819
00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:40,000
Pistons that surrounded them with the best roster just yet,

820
00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:42,480
but like J and Ivy is very rarely playing with

821
00:37:42,559 --> 00:37:45,320
fewer than three shooters on the court. I just don't

822
00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:46,880
think it's going to happen for him there. And I

823
00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:50,559
would argue as Detroit, his value right now is higher

824
00:37:50,599 --> 00:37:52,800
than it was this time last season, is it not?

825
00:37:53,320 --> 00:37:55,440
Speaker 2: Yes? And I think that's a great point because if

826
00:37:55,440 --> 00:37:58,079
you're the Pistons and you are sold now that like

827
00:37:58,280 --> 00:38:01,440
we're never going to be trusting him to run the

828
00:38:01,519 --> 00:38:04,679
offense like with or with or without Kaid and and

829
00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:07,400
another team isn't sold yet because they haven't, you know,

830
00:38:07,840 --> 00:38:10,199
been there with him every day for three plus years.

831
00:38:10,639 --> 00:38:13,199
Like that's why you'd move him. And that's why you're

832
00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:15,880
right that his values probably HighRes because maybe the entire

833
00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:19,000
league is not convinced yet that he's got that limitation,

834
00:38:19,119 --> 00:38:22,679
but the Pistons probably have enough information to know, like

835
00:38:22,760 --> 00:38:25,239
what player type he's going to be, And I think

836
00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:27,360
maybe another team might believe they can make him into

837
00:38:27,400 --> 00:38:29,440
something something else if that makes sense.

838
00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:31,280
Speaker 1: Where do you I would move him?

839
00:38:31,519 --> 00:38:31,639
Speaker 2: Uh?

840
00:38:31,679 --> 00:38:33,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, where do you land on? Duran?

841
00:38:34,599 --> 00:38:37,360
Speaker 2: So Duran, I actually would be more inclined to trade

842
00:38:37,480 --> 00:38:44,119
because I I think he's even to me, this is

843
00:38:44,159 --> 00:38:46,920
always dumb with guys this young. But I feel like

844
00:38:47,000 --> 00:38:50,599
I have a pretty good idea of like of his limitations,

845
00:38:50,599 --> 00:38:53,119
which is to say, I don't think he's ever going

846
00:38:53,159 --> 00:38:55,400
to space. I don't think he's ever gonna be a

847
00:38:55,519 --> 00:39:00,800
consistently like high, high level defensive anchor at CENT. And

848
00:39:01,119 --> 00:39:03,679
I think like the athleticism and like his just his

849
00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:06,039
the guy looks like a player. Like the frame he's

850
00:39:06,039 --> 00:39:07,920
so jacked, like he moves so far.

851
00:39:07,880 --> 00:39:09,920
Speaker 1: Of the picture of him right now. Dude, just enormous.

852
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:13,079
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's he's huge, and he's like, yeah, he's gonna be,

853
00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:16,639
you know, really physically overwhelming if he wants to be

854
00:39:18,039 --> 00:39:21,159
I just I don't know that he's someone if you're

855
00:39:21,199 --> 00:39:24,480
the Pistons, you're gonna want to pay that next contract

856
00:39:24,559 --> 00:39:26,880
because I do think he's gonna be pretty limited and

857
00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:29,960
might not be like a starting caliber center on a

858
00:39:29,960 --> 00:39:31,880
good team. It's just like, we haven't seen anything that

859
00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:33,679
says that that's like a definite thing.

860
00:39:34,159 --> 00:39:37,880
Speaker 1: I guess my whole thing would be, like, I think

861
00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:39,960
you could get a better return for Jade Nobby, which

862
00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:41,880
is why you move him. What are you getting for

863
00:39:42,039 --> 00:39:43,679
Jail and Dirt? I guess if there's a team that,

864
00:39:43,880 --> 00:39:46,679
like if Minnesota was worried about nas Read leaving and

865
00:39:46,760 --> 00:39:49,320
you're upgrading his spot. But it's not like the Pistons

866
00:39:49,400 --> 00:39:52,639
have a ton of these five options outside of Isaiah Stewart.

867
00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:55,000
And so if the alternative, like if you're just moving

868
00:39:55,119 --> 00:39:57,039
him for I would I don't think you're getting a

869
00:39:57,079 --> 00:40:00,000
first round pick in standalone value for Jail and Dirt?

870
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:01,559
Would you agree? I mean, like we're talking about someone's

871
00:40:01,559 --> 00:40:03,079
gonna be extension eligible after this year.

872
00:40:03,079 --> 00:40:04,960
Speaker 2: I do agree with that, and he maybe is the

873
00:40:05,000 --> 00:40:07,480
opposite of Ivy where his value was probably higher at

874
00:40:07,519 --> 00:40:09,599
this time last year or you know, the end of

875
00:40:09,639 --> 00:40:12,159
the season, in a last season like what, I don't know.

876
00:40:12,519 --> 00:40:14,760
If Charlot like Charlotte, it would be a second draft

877
00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:17,519
team for sure. Like Charlotte is like we think he's

878
00:40:17,519 --> 00:40:20,800
gonna just be perfect as a limited lob catcher, you know,

879
00:40:20,880 --> 00:40:24,360
interior finisher, rebounder, like we're good with that. We were

880
00:40:24,360 --> 00:40:28,000
good with like basically Mark Williams minus the elite shop blocking.

881
00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:30,920
But he stays on the floor, Like that's that might

882
00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:32,719
be some It'd have to be a young team that

883
00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:35,360
was willing to, like, let's check him out for a

884
00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:37,920
year and then see what restrictive free agency does.

885
00:40:38,760 --> 00:40:41,000
Speaker 1: I would absolutely be open to moving him as part

886
00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:43,000
of I guess, like a larger package if you're looking

887
00:40:43,039 --> 00:40:45,119
to get player, like if it's Zach Levine and let's

888
00:40:45,119 --> 00:40:47,280
say you're not giving him Jay and Ivy and it's well,

889
00:40:47,360 --> 00:40:49,400
Jaron Duran's part of this package and maybe Jalen Smith

890
00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:51,559
is coming back or something to make the big men

891
00:40:52,039 --> 00:40:53,880
math work. I guess I just look at his market

892
00:40:54,039 --> 00:40:56,559
and then also the personnel they have available, and I'm

893
00:40:56,599 --> 00:40:58,280
just like, I'd probably rather keep him and you can

894
00:40:58,360 --> 00:41:01,039
make that decision over the summer. Yeah, but he's been

895
00:41:01,920 --> 00:41:03,960
like he's been the player that I want to be

896
00:41:04,039 --> 00:41:06,400
the highest on over the past few years, or one

897
00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:08,480
of them, and I just can't get them because we

898
00:41:08,559 --> 00:41:11,760
have this like consistent amount of you know, watching game.

899
00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:13,679
I mean I don't watch them, but like anything you

900
00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:16,440
theoretically see from Jaalen Duran and then you look at

901
00:41:16,440 --> 00:41:18,360
the numbers, just like I'm trying really hard to like

902
00:41:18,400 --> 00:41:19,840
want to be in love with this guy, and I

903
00:41:20,159 --> 00:41:21,960
an extended period of time, I just can't be.

904
00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:24,199
Speaker 2: He's like, we need to come up with a label

905
00:41:24,239 --> 00:41:26,559
for it. But he's like a if you catch him

906
00:41:26,559 --> 00:41:28,760
in the right quarter, if you happen to see the

907
00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:31,440
right quarter, you will leave convinced like, well, they got

908
00:41:31,440 --> 00:41:33,000
to hang on to that guy, you know, like he

909
00:41:33,119 --> 00:41:35,800
really can't have it in flashes. But you're right, the

910
00:41:35,840 --> 00:41:38,280
numbers are what they are, and the overall, if you

911
00:41:38,320 --> 00:41:40,880
watch the next quarter, that he might just look completely

912
00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:43,679
like he looks lost and overwhelmed and just isn't isn't

913
00:41:43,840 --> 00:41:48,440
helpful this one, George Grant, No, why is he not?

914
00:41:48,760 --> 00:41:50,400
Was this one of the bombs you were referring to?

915
00:41:50,559 --> 00:41:53,079
Speaker 1: I said there was a grenade or two. The one

916
00:41:53,119 --> 00:41:54,840
was we started off with a grenade. He wasn't on

917
00:41:54,840 --> 00:41:57,440
the list that we compiled together, but I knew that

918
00:41:57,440 --> 00:41:59,000
you had talked about trading him in the past, so

919
00:41:59,000 --> 00:42:02,480
that you wouldn't care. This one's just it's because it's

920
00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:05,199
this is yours. But I want to know, is it's

921
00:42:05,239 --> 00:42:07,719
like if we isn't just Steph Curry needs to ask

922
00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:11,039
for a trade because if the Warriors aren't. I argued

923
00:42:11,039 --> 00:42:13,760
that them acting early on Dennis Shuter was smart, but

924
00:42:13,920 --> 00:42:16,000
he's come in and like they kind of it's been

925
00:42:16,039 --> 00:42:18,719
the same thing of well he doesn't fit because like

926
00:42:18,760 --> 00:42:22,199
they don't run the offense that would maximize the Dennis Shruter.

927
00:42:22,719 --> 00:42:26,000
And so now I'm almost interpreting as they kind of

928
00:42:26,159 --> 00:42:28,039
it's not so much that they acted early, but they

929
00:42:28,119 --> 00:42:30,039
just reiterated that, no, we're not going to do anything

930
00:42:30,079 --> 00:42:32,639
that's like really meaningful on the trademne.

931
00:42:32,719 --> 00:42:35,679
Speaker 2: I mean, the you know, we're having a different conversation

932
00:42:35,760 --> 00:42:38,760
if he's not shooting so poorly from three. I think

933
00:42:40,119 --> 00:42:41,880
I don't know if that would be the right conversation,

934
00:42:41,960 --> 00:42:44,199
but like if he just had some decent shooting, it

935
00:42:44,199 --> 00:42:48,000
would feel different. Like I think with anything, what Shrewter's

936
00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:51,840
addition and like lack of impact has illustrated is just

937
00:42:52,199 --> 00:42:55,000
what we sort of knew, which is the only thing

938
00:42:55,039 --> 00:42:58,960
that's really going to meaningfully change Golden State's ceiling is

939
00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:02,480
the addition of a player who's like maybe not as

940
00:43:02,519 --> 00:43:04,960
good as Steph, but like on some nights can be

941
00:43:05,360 --> 00:43:07,920
you know, like that's that's the level of acquisition they

942
00:43:07,920 --> 00:43:09,920
would need to make a difference. And then even then

943
00:43:10,239 --> 00:43:14,760
you're not like filling all the holes. So why isn't

944
00:43:14,800 --> 00:43:17,639
Steph Curry on the market like or discussed? It's yeah,

945
00:43:17,639 --> 00:43:22,000
because you started out correctly. It's just it will take

946
00:43:22,079 --> 00:43:25,079
him saying specifically you need to trade me for them

947
00:43:25,119 --> 00:43:27,360
to trade him. Like, I just think it's it's a

948
00:43:27,440 --> 00:43:32,280
Dirk Tim Duncan situation where the franchise, the franchise will

949
00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:35,920
just like go down in flames with Steph if that,

950
00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:38,960
like unless he says I want to leave, Like, there's

951
00:43:39,039 --> 00:43:42,800
just no scenario where the front office decides this is

952
00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:46,599
the thing to do proactively. I just can't imagine that scenario.

953
00:43:46,679 --> 00:43:48,760
Can Can you imagine that? Like? I just don't think

954
00:43:48,760 --> 00:43:49,440
that's possible.

955
00:43:50,920 --> 00:43:54,480
Speaker 1: No, it's not possible. But if you're not committed to

956
00:43:54,639 --> 00:43:58,400
maximizing the Steph window and you're worried about giving up

957
00:43:58,440 --> 00:44:00,760
future picks and not being able and like giving up

958
00:44:00,800 --> 00:44:04,400
on a Pods or a Kaminga before they pop. Wouldn't

959
00:44:04,440 --> 00:44:08,079
the callous, like or rational decision to people, then we

960
00:44:08,119 --> 00:44:10,840
should look at moving Steph because we're not trying to win.

961
00:44:11,159 --> 00:44:13,320
But basketball is a business and there's the end. Look,

962
00:44:13,360 --> 00:44:16,199
there's the emotional component, and if Steph doesn't want to leave,

963
00:44:16,239 --> 00:44:18,159
I don't know how you trade him. And he's won

964
00:44:18,199 --> 00:44:21,039
four titles, but it's just I don't know. I still

965
00:44:21,079 --> 00:44:23,320
think the Warriors have more optionality than I thought they

966
00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:25,199
would at the start of the season, even though we've

967
00:44:25,239 --> 00:44:28,000
kind of seen them, you know, slow slow down is

968
00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:32,159
probably the terrible way collapse. I just it bugs me.

969
00:44:32,639 --> 00:44:35,159
And it's the same thing with Lebron and the Lakers,

970
00:44:35,159 --> 00:44:37,000
and we might get to them. It's just well, if

971
00:44:37,000 --> 00:44:40,639
you're not doing this, like, if you're not going for it,

972
00:44:40,679 --> 00:44:42,159
then why are they here?

973
00:44:42,239 --> 00:44:44,760
Speaker 2: Right? Well, I think with Lebron it's way easier to

974
00:44:44,880 --> 00:44:48,559
justify trading him because he's not like he's changed teams

975
00:44:48,599 --> 00:44:50,679
three times, like this is not he's not like a

976
00:44:50,679 --> 00:44:53,360
lifetime Laker. It's you you know, he came.

977
00:44:54,719 --> 00:44:57,239
Speaker 1: Is this the most years now that he's spent like

978
00:44:57,320 --> 00:44:59,800
consecutively with the same team, or was his first stint

979
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:01,000
Cleveland longer, It's.

980
00:45:00,840 --> 00:45:02,880
Speaker 2: Got to be the first stin in Cleveland was longer.

981
00:45:02,960 --> 00:45:06,360
Speaker 1: I would think this is one, two, three, four, five, six,

982
00:45:06,760 --> 00:45:11,519
seventh season in LA and he was in Cleveland for seven,

983
00:45:12,320 --> 00:45:16,519
so it's tied. That's that is insane, insane.

984
00:45:16,760 --> 00:45:18,760
Speaker 2: I cannot believe. Well, I mean I get it, like

985
00:45:18,800 --> 00:45:20,719
it's just probably you know what the problem is, the

986
00:45:20,800 --> 00:45:23,360
last seven years have gone a lot faster than any

987
00:45:23,440 --> 00:45:27,280
previous set of years in my life. Uh, that's wild.

988
00:45:27,320 --> 00:45:29,679
But like, come on, he's not. It's not the same

989
00:45:29,719 --> 00:45:33,199
thing as as lot just you know, but that is wild.

990
00:45:34,039 --> 00:45:38,880
He'll probably be with the Lakers for longer than I mean, like, well,

991
00:45:38,880 --> 00:45:41,280
what's the total years in Cleveland, because he had what.

992
00:45:41,360 --> 00:45:44,320
Speaker 1: Four eleven in Cleveland total, He's not gonna be if

993
00:45:44,320 --> 00:45:46,400
he's with eleven with the Lakers. I'm I'll actually be

994
00:45:46,480 --> 00:45:47,559
excited he played that long.

995
00:45:47,639 --> 00:45:50,000
Speaker 2: Wouldn't that be increased? I mean, probably not gonna happen,

996
00:45:50,840 --> 00:45:51,880
but yeah, he's there.

997
00:45:51,800 --> 00:45:54,559
Speaker 1: Next season, though he will have been with the Lakers

998
00:45:54,599 --> 00:45:59,320
consecutively more than any other team. That's wild.

999
00:45:59,360 --> 00:46:03,719
Speaker 2: That feels wrong with Steph and the Warriors. Do you

1000
00:46:03,800 --> 00:46:07,280
think I think it was fair to say that, like

1001
00:46:07,360 --> 00:46:10,599
over the summer, maybe maybe it was fair to say,

1002
00:46:10,639 --> 00:46:12,880
depending on how legit any of the market and stuff was,

1003
00:46:12,880 --> 00:46:15,960
that they like weren't willing to to mortgage the future

1004
00:46:16,280 --> 00:46:19,880
entirely right, because they probably could have done something if

1005
00:46:19,880 --> 00:46:22,960
they'd wanted to, and they opted for like the middle path,

1006
00:46:23,079 --> 00:46:27,639
depth and whatever, good contracts all that stuff. I'm inclined

1007
00:46:27,639 --> 00:46:31,760
to believe that right now they are more willing, probably

1008
00:46:31,760 --> 00:46:34,000
partly because like the young guys that they wouldn't trade

1009
00:46:34,000 --> 00:46:36,960
away have just been bad. But I think it's a

1010
00:46:37,159 --> 00:46:40,199
it's like a scarcity issue. It's like we'll we'll, yeah,

1011
00:46:40,239 --> 00:46:45,480
we'll trade whatever to maximize the wind now window. But

1012
00:46:45,679 --> 00:46:49,480
like Jimmy Butler is like zach Lavine, like, I don't

1013
00:46:49,480 --> 00:46:51,119
think that the guys are out there, like if Yannis

1014
00:46:51,159 --> 00:46:53,400
were available, I think they put everything on the table.

1015
00:46:53,320 --> 00:46:55,320
Speaker 1: Or if like here's the problem is that the guys

1016
00:46:55,360 --> 00:46:58,360
that they want, then they're never gonna have the package

1017
00:46:58,360 --> 00:47:00,199
to get There's no scenario on which they have the

1018
00:47:00,199 --> 00:47:01,800
best offer for Rannis.

1019
00:47:01,960 --> 00:47:04,840
Speaker 2: Right, But I think they I think they've determined that

1020
00:47:04,920 --> 00:47:07,199
the pieces the guys that they could get right now

1021
00:47:07,320 --> 00:47:10,280
that they could have the best offer for like don't

1022
00:47:10,320 --> 00:47:12,079
get them where they need to be, and so like

1023
00:47:12,079 --> 00:47:14,880
they're not happy with this, like let's keep the assets,

1024
00:47:15,039 --> 00:47:17,719
keep the powder dry. But it's like, we can't spend

1025
00:47:17,760 --> 00:47:20,840
it all on someone that that then where does that

1026
00:47:20,960 --> 00:47:23,039
leave us? Like we're not gonna get where we want to,

1027
00:47:23,119 --> 00:47:25,320
and then we're screwed for the next five years.

1028
00:47:25,679 --> 00:47:29,280
Speaker 1: I guess I just don't have any empathy for that stance,

1029
00:47:29,320 --> 00:47:32,840
because it does feel like it feels like you could

1030
00:47:33,039 --> 00:47:35,199
wouldn't the middle ground be Okay, we can get zach

1031
00:47:35,280 --> 00:47:37,800
lavine then without giving up a pick or something, and

1032
00:47:37,840 --> 00:47:40,239
then then just do that. Yeah, And at least because

1033
00:47:40,599 --> 00:47:43,119
and maybe because you mentioned it, it seemed like over

1034
00:47:43,159 --> 00:47:45,039
the off season, even though they were linked to these guys,

1035
00:47:45,039 --> 00:47:47,519
you don't know how serious they the market and stuff

1036
00:47:47,559 --> 00:47:49,719
was a joke based off what they were offering. And

1037
00:47:50,400 --> 00:47:52,960
so I guess you could argue them that Steph signed

1038
00:47:52,960 --> 00:47:55,519
his extension and yes he still is eligible to be traded.

1039
00:47:56,480 --> 00:47:58,159
I wasn't talking to you with that, just I know,

1040
00:47:58,239 --> 00:48:01,599
you know, uh, like you could argue Steph has done

1041
00:48:01,599 --> 00:48:03,719
this eyes wide open, because I would just wonder like, well,

1042
00:48:03,719 --> 00:48:06,480
why I'm not faulting Steph for this? It's not a player,

1043
00:48:06,679 --> 00:48:09,119
like put more pressure on the front office, damn it,

1044
00:48:09,280 --> 00:48:12,480
but make them do something more than bring in Dennis Shrewder.

1045
00:48:13,000 --> 00:48:16,159
Speaker 2: I think he's there. I mean, they're lucky they have

1046
00:48:16,239 --> 00:48:18,079
him for a number of reasons. But I think almost

1047
00:48:18,079 --> 00:48:20,599
anyone else in his position over the last few years,

1048
00:48:21,239 --> 00:48:24,159
especially having won a championship like two years ago, would

1049
00:48:24,199 --> 00:48:26,440
be like what are we doing? Like we're lying?

1050
00:48:26,480 --> 00:48:28,960
Speaker 1: Why doing that? In Denver? He's not on this list.

1051
00:48:29,000 --> 00:48:30,119
Clearly we get yeah, it.

1052
00:48:30,119 --> 00:48:31,519
Speaker 2: Right, but like a lot you know what I mean,

1053
00:48:31,599 --> 00:48:33,800
Like that he could have exerted a lot of like

1054
00:48:33,960 --> 00:48:36,880
very uncomfortable pressure. And it seems to me like what

1055
00:48:36,920 --> 00:48:38,719
happens is they go to him and they say here's

1056
00:48:38,719 --> 00:48:41,719
our plan. Are you okay with this? And he'll say,

1057
00:48:41,760 --> 00:48:44,079
like I want to win, but I get it, but yeah,

1058
00:48:44,159 --> 00:48:47,280
like let's go with that, And they're probably telling him like,

1059
00:48:47,280 --> 00:48:49,480
like I'm sure they've asked him, what do you think

1060
00:48:49,480 --> 00:48:51,920
about Levine for this? What do you think about Butler

1061
00:48:51,960 --> 00:48:54,960
for this? And I would imagine that he hasn't said

1062
00:48:55,039 --> 00:48:57,480
like do it full stop, because if he had, like

1063
00:48:57,559 --> 00:48:59,480
I feel like now at this point they probably would

1064
00:48:59,480 --> 00:49:02,440
have done it, Like you can't this what's happened over

1065
00:49:02,480 --> 00:49:04,840
the last two three weeks with how the team is

1066
00:49:04,880 --> 00:49:08,920
played and how ineffective the pieces they've held on to,

1067
00:49:09,119 --> 00:49:12,840
the young pieces have been. It's like, okay, well this

1068
00:49:12,840 --> 00:49:15,559
this second timeline ain't working, Like it's time we need

1069
00:49:15,599 --> 00:49:17,800
to just we needed now is the time. Although I

1070
00:49:17,800 --> 00:49:20,239
think you were probably right to argue that time was

1071
00:49:20,360 --> 00:49:22,480
quite a while ago that they should have just gone for.

1072
00:49:22,400 --> 00:49:24,920
Speaker 1: It, this is still you and it's a more realistic

1073
00:49:25,000 --> 00:49:27,079
question I think in my opinion, this next player, Yeah,

1074
00:49:27,199 --> 00:49:29,079
if the Warriors, I'm gonna hijack it because it's the

1075
00:49:29,119 --> 00:49:30,800
Warriors and I want your opinion more than I want

1076
00:49:30,800 --> 00:49:34,280
to hear from me, Like if you're actively looking at

1077
00:49:34,280 --> 00:49:36,400
I guess buying or something. And also what happened to

1078
00:49:36,480 --> 00:49:38,559
him defensively? I had him third and defensive Player of

1079
00:49:38,559 --> 00:49:40,679
the Year voting a few weeks ago, and he's definitely

1080
00:49:40,719 --> 00:49:42,920
not cracking my top five at the moment. But is

1081
00:49:43,000 --> 00:49:45,800
that something that's not realistically on the table because you

1082
00:49:45,920 --> 00:49:48,079
risk Like how would stepf feel if you're giving up

1083
00:49:48,159 --> 00:49:49,719
Draymond Green to get I don't even know what the

1084
00:49:50,000 --> 00:49:52,960
like if you're getting darn Fox or you know, but like,

1085
00:49:53,000 --> 00:49:56,760
shouldn't Draymond Green be on the tape, like realistic on

1086
00:49:56,760 --> 00:49:59,079
the table in some capacity, whether it's as part of

1087
00:49:59,119 --> 00:50:02,320
a larger package buy or hey, can we get any

1088
00:50:02,360 --> 00:50:03,960
positive value for him? Now?

1089
00:50:04,880 --> 00:50:07,119
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think he should be in a vacuum. But

1090
00:50:07,400 --> 00:50:11,800
like you, I think that's right, that it's it's it's

1091
00:50:11,920 --> 00:50:16,119
not something they're looking at through a totally rational lens,

1092
00:50:16,159 --> 00:50:20,639
Like sentiment is involved, like Curry's opinion obviously is involved,

1093
00:50:21,960 --> 00:50:24,400
I think. And then the other part, the other part

1094
00:50:24,440 --> 00:50:27,039
of it is like what where are you sending him

1095
00:50:27,079 --> 00:50:29,280
for value at this point? Like at what kind? I

1096
00:50:29,320 --> 00:50:30,880
think it's got to be a team that's trying to

1097
00:50:30,880 --> 00:50:33,920
win right now. But man, is he Like has there

1098
00:50:33,920 --> 00:50:36,719
ever been a more specific fit that we have less

1099
00:50:36,760 --> 00:50:39,079
information on how he would do? This is an old

1100
00:50:39,159 --> 00:50:43,679
argument with him, Like if you're trading for him, like

1101
00:50:43,719 --> 00:50:47,639
the the the breadth of teams that would go for

1102
00:50:47,679 --> 00:50:50,079
it and have confidence that he could fit is like

1103
00:50:50,400 --> 00:50:54,360
so narrow, right, because you just have no idea how

1104
00:50:54,400 --> 00:50:58,000
he's going to fit anywhere, because he's never been anywhere else,

1105
00:50:58,039 --> 00:51:00,559
He's never been with any other you know, know, any

1106
00:51:00,559 --> 00:51:03,400
other star player, So like that's a part of it too,

1107
00:51:03,440 --> 00:51:05,719
as much as anything else. Like I but you're right,

1108
00:51:05,760 --> 00:51:08,039
I think he is someone I had independently had this

1109
00:51:08,079 --> 00:51:10,280
thought earlier today when I was thinking of guys to

1110
00:51:10,320 --> 00:51:14,679
throw out there, like why if it were a normal situation,

1111
00:51:15,079 --> 00:51:17,039
he would absolutely they would have traded him a long

1112
00:51:17,079 --> 00:51:19,960
time ago because of all the all the in the nonsense.

1113
00:51:20,000 --> 00:51:23,079
But like, I think he would definitely be on the block.

1114
00:51:23,159 --> 00:51:25,320
I don't know that he'd have this contract, first of all,

1115
00:51:25,360 --> 00:51:27,719
if he were any place else. That's another it's another.

1116
00:51:27,440 --> 00:51:29,159
Speaker 1: Fact you think those contracts is bad.

1117
00:51:30,320 --> 00:51:32,119
Speaker 2: I don't think it's bad. I just think it's like

1118
00:51:32,480 --> 00:51:34,639
it's a number that's been So he's making twenty four

1119
00:51:34,719 --> 00:51:37,000
this year, goes up to almost twenty six next year,

1120
00:51:37,440 --> 00:51:40,280
and has a player option for all twenty seven to

1121
00:51:40,360 --> 00:51:44,719
seven in twenty twenty six, twenty twenty seven. So I

1122
00:51:45,000 --> 00:51:47,800
don't know, he probably will pick that up, I would imagine.

1123
00:51:47,800 --> 00:51:49,400
I don't know what he's going to be expecting to

1124
00:51:49,400 --> 00:51:53,920
get when he's in his age thirty seven summer. I

1125
00:51:53,960 --> 00:51:56,400
think it's it's it's not something you just take on

1126
00:51:56,760 --> 00:51:59,159
without like it's you could take that on and the

1127
00:51:59,280 --> 00:52:02,039
out years of that, that could be really awful because

1128
00:52:02,039 --> 00:52:04,599
he has slipped. I think to your point, like he's

1129
00:52:04,599 --> 00:52:05,440
just not he's.

1130
00:52:05,280 --> 00:52:07,039
Speaker 1: Still a good defender. He asked me, where has he

1131
00:52:07,079 --> 00:52:10,000
slipped or was I just was did you think I was?

1132
00:52:10,039 --> 00:52:11,480
And just didn't say anything in the moment that I

1133
00:52:11,559 --> 00:52:14,480
was off my rocker by putting him third. I think

1134
00:52:14,519 --> 00:52:15,559
you had him too high.

1135
00:52:15,559 --> 00:52:18,039
Speaker 2: But I also think like that was how long ago,

1136
00:52:18,280 --> 00:52:21,039
long enough ago, and the Warriors defense was good enough

1137
00:52:21,079 --> 00:52:22,920
at the time, and it's still pretty good. Like he's

1138
00:52:22,920 --> 00:52:25,199
still a good defender, he's I just don't think he's

1139
00:52:25,760 --> 00:52:27,599
I don't think he's one of the best defenders in

1140
00:52:27,639 --> 00:52:30,000
the league. I guess you could say he's one of

1141
00:52:30,000 --> 00:52:31,679
the best defenders in the league still like per minent,

1142
00:52:32,199 --> 00:52:34,280
but but like he's just he's not playing as much.

1143
00:52:34,760 --> 00:52:37,519
He has taken quite a bit more off the table offensively.

1144
00:52:37,559 --> 00:52:39,880
I think it does feel like the turnovers and the

1145
00:52:39,920 --> 00:52:43,760
mistakes and are there's more of them, and that's just age.

1146
00:52:43,800 --> 00:52:45,880
I think like he he just doesn't move the same

1147
00:52:46,079 --> 00:52:49,800
and okay, like nobody does this deep into a career.

1148
00:52:51,039 --> 00:52:57,280
So I think like if you're trading for him, you

1149
00:52:57,280 --> 00:53:01,039
you probably would need to believe that he he can

1150
00:53:01,480 --> 00:53:05,320
single handedly just win you games defensively, like in high

1151
00:53:05,320 --> 00:53:07,760
stakes games, and that's possible, like for a couple of

1152
00:53:07,760 --> 00:53:11,400
playoffs series maybe, but the fit is so difficult, like

1153
00:53:11,840 --> 00:53:15,400
you need stretcher all around him, you need to learn

1154
00:53:15,440 --> 00:53:17,440
how to play with him because he's such a unique

1155
00:53:17,480 --> 00:53:20,880
offensive player. Like it's just I think it's as much

1156
00:53:20,920 --> 00:53:23,119
as anything, the market is so weird for him that

1157
00:53:22,880 --> 00:53:24,840
that might be as big a reason as anything that

1158
00:53:24,880 --> 00:53:25,679
he's not out there.

1159
00:53:26,599 --> 00:53:28,360
Speaker 1: Would it be more appealing to you if it was

1160
00:53:28,400 --> 00:53:30,559
gonna save you, because I do think there would be.

1161
00:53:30,719 --> 00:53:33,880
I think he steals like first round pick value. I'm

1162
00:53:33,880 --> 00:53:35,239
not being like, oh, I'm not giving up a first

1163
00:53:35,280 --> 00:53:37,280
round pick for dream On. That contract is toxic if

1164
00:53:37,280 --> 00:53:39,400
you have the option of whether it's part of a

1165
00:53:39,480 --> 00:53:42,119
Jimmy Butler trade or for someone else, and you're able

1166
00:53:42,159 --> 00:53:44,400
to give up Draymond and then that's going to allow

1167
00:53:44,400 --> 00:53:47,119
you to keep whether it's a Pods or Akamingo or

1168
00:53:47,159 --> 00:53:50,320
some of your first round stash. Are you at the

1169
00:53:50,320 --> 00:53:54,599
point where you would view that scenario like remove sentiment

1170
00:53:54,679 --> 00:53:56,880
from it, even though that's tough to do. Is that

1171
00:53:56,960 --> 00:54:00,840
more appealing, then let's give up Andrew Wiggin and like

1172
00:54:00,840 --> 00:54:02,679
there's our primary salary angle.

1173
00:54:02,519 --> 00:54:04,800
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, Wiggins is a tough one. If it was

1174
00:54:04,840 --> 00:54:08,000
if you could do it with Pods and Cominga, but

1175
00:54:08,079 --> 00:54:09,480
that's just what does that even get you to?

1176
00:54:09,639 --> 00:54:13,199
Speaker 1: Like they make like twelve million combined or something.

1177
00:54:14,079 --> 00:54:17,920
Speaker 2: Minga's making seven and a half, Pajemski's three and a half, right, yeah,

1178
00:54:17,960 --> 00:54:20,440
So it's just like you can't unless you're gonna make

1179
00:54:20,480 --> 00:54:23,159
it like a five player trade to rope in, we're

1180
00:54:23,239 --> 00:54:24,360
rating and Kyle Anderson.

1181
00:54:24,679 --> 00:54:26,920
Speaker 1: I've reached the point where to me, it's if you're

1182
00:54:26,920 --> 00:54:29,639
not getting a wing back. So if it's Jimmy Butler,

1183
00:54:30,800 --> 00:54:32,440
like I mean, you have to get super creative to

1184
00:54:32,480 --> 00:54:34,840
get there without Andrew Wickins or Draymond Green in there.

1185
00:54:35,239 --> 00:54:37,360
But like, I give up Andrew Wickins for Jimmy Butler

1186
00:54:37,480 --> 00:54:39,599
just because you're getting a wing. But I'm now at

1187
00:54:39,599 --> 00:54:41,840
the point where it's Kaminga's not a wing, Draymond's not

1188
00:54:41,840 --> 00:54:43,519
a wing. So if you're not getting a wing back,

1189
00:54:43,599 --> 00:54:45,400
you can't trade Andrew Wickins.

1190
00:54:45,440 --> 00:54:48,000
Speaker 2: Well yeah, and I do think too if you're guys,

1191
00:54:48,000 --> 00:54:52,079
So if if you're trading for Butler, you sort of

1192
00:54:52,320 --> 00:54:54,840
you can't be trading Draymond because the theory of why

1193
00:54:54,840 --> 00:54:57,159
you're trading for Butler is like, we're just going all

1194
00:54:57,199 --> 00:54:59,000
the way with the oldest guys we got that are

1195
00:54:59,039 --> 00:54:59,920
still our best player.

1196
00:55:00,440 --> 00:55:03,159
Speaker 1: But also why not what if it's like, what if

1197
00:55:03,199 --> 00:55:05,480
that's the difference between having to give up a distant

1198
00:55:05,519 --> 00:55:09,639
first or keeping pods type deal because you have you're

1199
00:55:09,639 --> 00:55:12,800
still gonna have TJD on this roster. You could doubt

1200
00:55:12,840 --> 00:55:16,360
maybe like or Kyleie Anderson go to more small ball

1201
00:55:16,440 --> 00:55:19,000
five there you also have Kevon Looney, Like you have

1202
00:55:19,199 --> 00:55:22,679
enough big well, I'll say Biggs to keep that. It's

1203
00:55:22,880 --> 00:55:24,880
all right, Like just go out there and sign another

1204
00:55:24,960 --> 00:55:27,039
cheap o big off the buyout market, or go trade

1205
00:55:27,079 --> 00:55:33,360
for another backup big. It's because if you're getting Butler specifically, like,

1206
00:55:33,440 --> 00:55:35,280
isn't there a chance that your defense is probably still

1207
00:55:35,320 --> 00:55:37,840
just gonna be good enough then anyway.

1208
00:55:37,719 --> 00:55:39,559
Speaker 2: I guess so I'm gonna have to like talk out

1209
00:55:39,559 --> 00:55:41,159
of both sides of my mouth now because I did

1210
00:55:41,320 --> 00:55:44,039
just go through how Draymond has slipped, but I think

1211
00:55:44,079 --> 00:55:48,440
he still is the guy that, other than Steph, has

1212
00:55:48,519 --> 00:55:54,280
the greatest capacity to like impact meaningful games. So and wait,

1213
00:55:54,400 --> 00:55:57,119
there's a there's probably an argument to be had about Wiggins,

1214
00:55:57,159 --> 00:55:59,079
and there's probably an argument to be had about like

1215
00:56:00,239 --> 00:56:02,800
how much better is Jimmy Butler gonna be than Andrew

1216
00:56:02,840 --> 00:56:05,519
Wiggins if you price in the availability stuff in the

1217
00:56:05,519 --> 00:56:09,119
short term, Like Butler is better, But like, I mean,

1218
00:56:09,159 --> 00:56:12,159
Wiggins has been great, He's been really good this year.

1219
00:56:13,199 --> 00:56:15,800
He's like he's a great third best player. He can't

1220
00:56:15,840 --> 00:56:16,559
be your best guy.

1221
00:56:17,000 --> 00:56:19,119
Speaker 1: And I think that, and I hate planning like this,

1222
00:56:19,239 --> 00:56:21,239
especially because during the playoffs you're not gonna get a

1223
00:56:21,280 --> 00:56:24,079
ton of non Steph minutes, But it's who's gonna be

1224
00:56:24,159 --> 00:56:25,679
more equipped to lead you during those minutes?

1225
00:56:25,760 --> 00:56:29,119
Speaker 2: Andrew Wiggins ur Chamey, right, It's not a debate for sure.

1226
00:56:29,639 --> 00:56:32,159
Speaker 1: The other thing too, do you think that there's a

1227
00:56:32,280 --> 00:56:35,320
chance because I wouldn't trade Raymond, like I would just

1228
00:56:35,360 --> 00:56:38,480
go all in And you just phrased it where it's

1229
00:56:38,559 --> 00:56:40,599
just go all in around the older guys, so you're

1230
00:56:40,599 --> 00:56:46,480
trading the others. But like, Draymond's minutes are so intertwined

1231
00:56:46,519 --> 00:56:48,719
to Steph's that I'm almost kind of like, well, what

1232
00:56:48,760 --> 00:56:51,639
does the drop off look like? Are you saying that

1233
00:56:51,639 --> 00:56:54,159
the Steph minutes are gonna suck after you trade Raymond

1234
00:56:54,159 --> 00:56:56,679
because he's played, as we record this were what thirty

1235
00:56:56,719 --> 00:56:59,920
games into the season, He's played under four hundred per

1236
00:57:00,000 --> 00:57:01,159
sessions without Steph Curry.

1237
00:57:01,360 --> 00:57:02,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's not.

1238
00:57:02,320 --> 00:57:05,679
Speaker 1: Like a shit ton, And so I hate thinking like this,

1239
00:57:06,119 --> 00:57:08,679
but I'm also kind of wondera, Well, yes, there would be.

1240
00:57:08,719 --> 00:57:10,559
I want to make it clear there would be a difference,

1241
00:57:10,719 --> 00:57:12,440
but I'm just sort of like, well, if you're still

1242
00:57:12,440 --> 00:57:14,840
counting on Steph to elevate you while he's on the court,

1243
00:57:14,880 --> 00:57:18,239
if removing Draymond from those minutes, are you getting a

1244
00:57:18,360 --> 00:57:22,679
metric ton worse if you're acquiring a Jimmy Butler or

1245
00:57:22,719 --> 00:57:26,639
another high ish end player. And I would just wonder if, again,

1246
00:57:27,039 --> 00:57:28,480
sentiment is going to be part of it, But if

1247
00:57:28,480 --> 00:57:29,880
you're looking at it through that lens, is there a

1248
00:57:29,880 --> 00:57:32,360
possibility that this isn't as big of a deal on

1249
00:57:32,440 --> 00:57:34,159
the court, Yeah.

1250
00:57:33,920 --> 00:57:37,159
Speaker 2: It's possible. I think one of the issues is really

1251
00:57:37,199 --> 00:57:41,239
hurting the Warriors this year is like Steph isn't isn't

1252
00:57:41,320 --> 00:57:44,880
quite good enough now to sort of render the types

1253
00:57:44,920 --> 00:57:48,920
of defenses that he's seeing, like to just neutralize those

1254
00:57:48,960 --> 00:57:51,599
because he's always been doubled and held and all this

1255
00:57:51,679 --> 00:57:54,239
other stuff. He's just it's harder for him to get separation.

1256
00:57:54,320 --> 00:57:57,840
He's not as quick. It's just his ball. He can't

1257
00:57:57,840 --> 00:58:01,360
blow by guys like he used to, like because because

1258
00:58:01,400 --> 00:58:04,960
of that, having someone like Draymond out there with him

1259
00:58:05,000 --> 00:58:07,320
on offense, the defenses still can treat like as a

1260
00:58:07,360 --> 00:58:10,559
non threat a lot of the time. That's become harder,

1261
00:58:10,639 --> 00:58:13,960
Like it's made it. It's made the offense harder for

1262
00:58:14,280 --> 00:58:17,000
as a as a team. And the trade off, like

1263
00:58:17,039 --> 00:58:19,360
what you're losing there now because Steph is a little

1264
00:58:19,360 --> 00:58:23,000
diminished because Draymond is someone that defenses forever have like

1265
00:58:23,400 --> 00:58:26,159
at least kind of messed around with schematically, like, oh,

1266
00:58:26,199 --> 00:58:29,559
we can play him a certain way, Like what Draymond's

1267
00:58:29,559 --> 00:58:32,280
giving you on defense isn't making up that difference. So

1268
00:58:32,320 --> 00:58:35,239
it's kind of like a big, big shock, Like the

1269
00:58:35,280 --> 00:58:39,000
two mid thirties cornerstones on each end are like not

1270
00:58:39,119 --> 00:58:41,760
as good, and so that's hurt the team, Like, but

1271
00:58:41,840 --> 00:58:45,239
the even the interplay between them, like one being slightly

1272
00:58:45,280 --> 00:58:49,360
diminished actually hurts the other because they're such a specific pairing.

1273
00:58:49,400 --> 00:58:52,559
Speaker 1: You know, I'd be curious what teams would actually be

1274
00:58:52,599 --> 00:58:54,760
and if the Warriors just said out that it's like

1275
00:58:54,800 --> 00:58:58,519
Draymond Green's available and there's like no specifications, Yeah, maybe

1276
00:58:58,519 --> 00:59:01,000
they would accept draft equity. I wonder what teams would be,

1277
00:59:01,599 --> 00:59:03,639
like would come call. I think the Lakers would for sure.

1278
00:59:03,920 --> 00:59:07,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, and didn't didn't he say that? Like he had

1279
00:59:07,440 --> 00:59:10,840
a bigger offer from Memphis on his last deal like

1280
00:59:10,880 --> 00:59:12,760
I saw. I think Memphis was offering four for one

1281
00:59:12,800 --> 00:59:15,639
hundred oh something like that. Like, I don't know how

1282
00:59:15,679 --> 00:59:19,119
I feel about the Memphis fit now, but you could

1283
00:59:19,159 --> 00:59:21,679
definitely get excited about him and Jaron Jackson as like

1284
00:59:21,679 --> 00:59:24,639
a four or five combo. Like Jackson is the type

1285
00:59:24,639 --> 00:59:27,639
of big that an acquiring team would almost need to have,

1286
00:59:27,840 --> 00:59:30,039
I think, because if you don't have a Steph like

1287
00:59:30,159 --> 00:59:33,480
player to do the two man game with Draymond, you're

1288
00:59:33,519 --> 00:59:35,880
just gonna need a spacer at the at the other

1289
00:59:35,880 --> 00:59:36,519
big position.

1290
00:59:37,039 --> 00:59:39,800
Speaker 1: I maintained, and their defense is played better since Andrew

1291
00:59:39,840 --> 00:59:42,599
Nemhar came back. But I would love him on the Pacers.

1292
00:59:42,199 --> 00:59:46,960
Speaker 2: Sure, with Turner another playmaker too, like and Turner right exactly.

1293
00:59:47,519 --> 00:59:51,320
The list of guys that you aren't having immediate reservations

1294
00:59:51,320 --> 00:59:53,519
about fit wise in the front court is pretty short,

1295
00:59:53,599 --> 00:59:58,119
like okay, uh, who else even spaces? I can't even think, like,

1296
00:59:58,480 --> 00:59:59,960
here's Lopez.

1297
01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:04,679
Speaker 1: There's one if you're the Knicks. So now you're talking, okay, well,

1298
01:00:04,760 --> 01:00:07,599
Josh Hart and Mitchell Robinson have to go because you

1299
01:00:07,599 --> 01:00:09,119
need to get to your dream on's number, and maybe

1300
01:00:09,159 --> 01:00:11,400
you could do Josh Hart, like Josh Hart has to

1301
01:00:11,400 --> 01:00:14,760
go because he's just the largest number. Yeah, would you

1302
01:00:14,840 --> 01:00:17,440
consider that because of what you're trying, you wouldn't. I

1303
01:00:17,480 --> 01:00:18,159
don't know. I was.

1304
01:00:18,320 --> 01:00:20,519
Speaker 2: I don't know why the Warriors are doing that like that,

1305
01:00:20,599 --> 01:00:21,960
but you know, like I don't.

1306
01:00:21,840 --> 01:00:25,440
Speaker 1: Get your Washington Wizards first. Maybe up with comb Dottie, you.

1307
01:00:25,400 --> 01:00:28,079
Speaker 2: Gets your fake first back. Yeah, I don't know, but yeah,

1308
01:00:28,079 --> 01:00:30,320
the Knicks again with Kat that's another one that makes

1309
01:00:30,400 --> 01:00:33,519
some sense there, although like just having og at the

1310
01:00:33,519 --> 01:00:36,039
four next to Cat feels totally fine to me. I think.

1311
01:00:36,199 --> 01:00:37,960
Speaker 1: I think I'm more so thinking like they need to

1312
01:00:37,960 --> 01:00:40,000
play defense against good teams, Like I know the Knicks

1313
01:00:40,039 --> 01:00:41,639
defense is picked up, but it's well, let's see how

1314
01:00:41,679 --> 01:00:44,599
the Knicks defense fares against the type of offenses they're

1315
01:00:44,599 --> 01:00:46,639
gonna face in the playoffs, and even as of right now,

1316
01:00:46,960 --> 01:00:51,000
the Knicks against top ten offenses are dead last, yeah,

1317
01:00:51,079 --> 01:00:52,960
in defensive rating, And even if you want to be

1318
01:00:53,079 --> 01:00:54,800
like I'm not a big fan of doing it this way,

1319
01:00:54,800 --> 01:00:56,519
I want to make it clear whereas well, why don't

1320
01:00:56,559 --> 01:00:59,000
we just like filter out that Boston game? And it's like, well,

1321
01:00:59,000 --> 01:01:01,039
we don't filter it out because Boston's a team that

1322
01:01:01,039 --> 01:01:03,519
they're mesturing themselves against. Yeah, but you fil throughout that

1323
01:01:03,559 --> 01:01:07,960
Boston game and against top ten offenses. The Knicks are

1324
01:01:08,440 --> 01:01:11,440
twenty sixth in points lab per possession. So I just

1325
01:01:11,480 --> 01:01:13,079
be curious. I don't think they would do it either.

1326
01:01:13,079 --> 01:01:15,800
I would just be curious, like, would you prefer Draymond

1327
01:01:15,840 --> 01:01:18,159
or Josh Hart on the current makeup of the Knicks

1328
01:01:18,159 --> 01:01:19,239
for what they're trying to do?

1329
01:01:19,880 --> 01:01:23,599
Speaker 2: That's interesting. I mean, if I like the idea of

1330
01:01:23,679 --> 01:01:26,480
Draymond giving the Knicks like a small ball option, if

1331
01:01:26,480 --> 01:01:29,800
you wanted to he wanted some backup five stuff, Yeah, right,

1332
01:01:29,880 --> 01:01:32,119
he could be your backup center, which is like really

1333
01:01:33,199 --> 01:01:35,880
you know, a kind of his ideal role. Frankly, like

1334
01:01:35,880 --> 01:01:37,719
if you if he can give you the like, do

1335
01:01:37,760 --> 01:01:39,280
you really want to take cat off the floor the

1336
01:01:39,320 --> 01:01:41,239
way he's been shooting it? Though? Like he gives you

1337
01:01:41,280 --> 01:01:43,400
a different options, I think, which matters if they're trying

1338
01:01:43,440 --> 01:01:45,039
to win conference finals games.

1339
01:01:45,280 --> 01:01:47,559
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it also feels like he's more like him

1340
01:01:47,559 --> 01:01:49,760
and og Ananobi can play the same defensive role. So

1341
01:01:49,760 --> 01:01:53,199
I'm almost wondering if your core five lineup gets better

1342
01:01:54,039 --> 01:01:56,719
like at both ends, Like, Okay, Josh Hart, he's just

1343
01:01:56,760 --> 01:02:00,480
more dynamic offensively, yeah, but defensively Draymond is still more dynamic,

1344
01:02:00,559 --> 01:02:02,639
And so does that make your top end line up

1345
01:02:03,039 --> 01:02:06,320
better going from Josh Hart to Draymond? I think there's

1346
01:02:06,320 --> 01:02:07,239
a case to be maybe.

1347
01:02:07,400 --> 01:02:09,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, My and I think too, like Brunson is one

1348
01:02:09,880 --> 01:02:12,400
of the guys that I think Draymond could really have

1349
01:02:12,440 --> 01:02:14,599
some pretty good synergy with that you could run a

1350
01:02:14,639 --> 01:02:16,400
lot of fun actions with the two of them. It's

1351
01:02:16,519 --> 01:02:18,880
you know, Brunston's not going to relocate and do all

1352
01:02:18,920 --> 01:02:21,480
the off ball sprinting quite as much. But like, they're

1353
01:02:21,480 --> 01:02:23,519
both so clever that I think like the two man

1354
01:02:23,519 --> 01:02:24,840
game would be interesting as an all.

1355
01:02:24,960 --> 01:02:27,800
Speaker 1: But is there really any replacing the power of friendship?

1356
01:02:28,960 --> 01:02:32,239
Speaker 2: Yes, well, friendship doesn't matter. As Dante di Vincenzo, do.

1357
01:02:32,239 --> 01:02:33,599
Speaker 1: You want to take us through we have back to

1358
01:02:33,639 --> 01:02:35,440
back pacers. Do you want to guide us through them.

1359
01:02:35,679 --> 01:02:39,079
Speaker 2: So these guys get talked about collectively all the time.

1360
01:02:39,119 --> 01:02:41,920
This is Jaris Walker and Bennick Matheren. A couple of

1361
01:02:41,960 --> 01:02:44,719
flashes from Jaris Walker lately. You know, if you've seen him,

1362
01:02:45,719 --> 01:02:46,119
you're on.

1363
01:02:46,079 --> 01:02:48,920
Speaker 1: A Jaris Walker solo run against the Thunder the other night.

1364
01:02:48,920 --> 01:02:49,800
That was pretty badass.

1365
01:02:50,079 --> 01:02:53,880
Speaker 2: He's he's nearing the during territory for me of like

1366
01:02:53,960 --> 01:02:56,519
catch him on the right stretch. You can sort of

1367
01:02:56,519 --> 01:02:59,559
get a little bit sold. But that's only true of

1368
01:02:59,599 --> 01:03:01,639
guys that you're mostly not sold on. So I don't

1369
01:03:01,639 --> 01:03:03,639
know what that says. So just I mean, I don't know.

1370
01:03:03,800 --> 01:03:07,599
Let's go through it. The The idea for Indy putting

1371
01:03:07,599 --> 01:03:11,679
these guys on the table is that it's unclear how

1372
01:03:11,719 --> 01:03:13,960
either of them fits long term. The Pacers are a

1373
01:03:13,960 --> 01:03:16,400
team that has a Supermax player in tyres Alburtn and

1374
01:03:16,440 --> 01:03:20,119
they just paid a boatload to Pascal Siakam. You're in

1375
01:03:20,159 --> 01:03:22,840
with you're giving Obi toppin twenty million dollars a year,

1376
01:03:22,880 --> 01:03:26,079
like you've you've spent and you are you're not an

1377
01:03:26,079 --> 01:03:28,360
old team, but you're not a like you're not a

1378
01:03:28,400 --> 01:03:30,639
team that's just throwing the young guys out there to

1379
01:03:30,679 --> 01:03:32,960
see how they do and let's develop at their own pay,

1380
01:03:33,079 --> 01:03:36,760
Like it's these guys need to help. Matherin has been productive.

1381
01:03:37,000 --> 01:03:40,320
I think most people that watch a lot of Pacers

1382
01:03:40,679 --> 01:03:44,039
will say it's he's not an additive guy, like he's

1383
01:03:44,119 --> 01:03:47,719
just the fit is not great with Haliburton, certainly on defense,

1384
01:03:48,360 --> 01:03:50,559
and his value might be pretty high. Like I don't

1385
01:03:50,599 --> 01:03:52,559
know what Walker's value is around the league, but I

1386
01:03:52,599 --> 01:03:54,639
think Matherin is someone that a team could talk itself

1387
01:03:54,639 --> 01:03:57,840
into like, oh, he's he's a starting shooting guard and

1388
01:03:58,400 --> 01:04:00,280
is going to be a high level score or like

1389
01:04:00,320 --> 01:04:03,440
that's you wouldn't be crazy to think that, especially over

1390
01:04:03,480 --> 01:04:06,639
the next three to five years. So it's just it's

1391
01:04:06,760 --> 01:04:08,960
kind of a if the Pacers want to sort of

1392
01:04:09,039 --> 01:04:11,840
get this season back on track and like meet the

1393
01:04:11,880 --> 01:04:14,639
standard they set last year, these are the guys you'd

1394
01:04:14,639 --> 01:04:16,599
look at moving and you need to throw salary in

1395
01:04:16,599 --> 01:04:19,199
because they're both on rookie scale deals. But like you

1396
01:04:19,239 --> 01:04:21,400
could you could do something if you're looking to make

1397
01:04:21,400 --> 01:04:24,239
a short term upgrade with either of these guys.

1398
01:04:24,320 --> 01:04:27,280
Speaker 1: Right, I think that's ultimately why they're not and the

1399
01:04:27,280 --> 01:04:30,159
pager've been playing better lately. Of course, still don't the

1400
01:04:30,199 --> 01:04:32,400
Venicmathroom one. I just don't know what to think of

1401
01:04:32,480 --> 01:04:35,159
Jarvis Walker just yet. We haven't seen enough like extended

1402
01:04:35,239 --> 01:04:35,920
Jarvis Walker.

1403
01:04:36,199 --> 01:04:38,039
Speaker 2: Let me sorry, let me ask you. Is it just

1404
01:04:38,159 --> 01:04:43,480
as a bigger idea? Is it almost better that Walker

1405
01:04:43,559 --> 01:04:45,320
is Like I don't know, like because a team could

1406
01:04:45,320 --> 01:04:48,159
talk itself into, oh look at this, they just the

1407
01:04:48,159 --> 01:04:51,280
the untapped potential versus Mather. And I do think we

1408
01:04:51,360 --> 01:04:53,559
know roughly like what kind of player he is.

1409
01:04:53,840 --> 01:04:56,800
Speaker 1: Right, And I think mystery boxes are going to be

1410
01:04:56,840 --> 01:04:59,079
stronger selling points through their first two years of the

1411
01:04:59,119 --> 01:05:01,800
league rather than and once you get to year three,

1412
01:05:01,840 --> 01:05:03,480
it's well, we either have you figured out or if

1413
01:05:03,519 --> 01:05:05,599
you're a mystery box, it's like and you've actually been

1414
01:05:05,639 --> 01:05:09,719
playing what are you worth? But the tricky thing with

1415
01:05:09,800 --> 01:05:13,079
Mathrin too, he's been defending better of late, been rebounding

1416
01:05:13,079 --> 01:05:14,519
better too, and like those are the things you kind

1417
01:05:14,519 --> 01:05:15,639
of look at and say, like, well, that's what they

1418
01:05:15,639 --> 01:05:19,800
would need. The offense just doesn't jibe, like even when

1419
01:05:19,800 --> 01:05:21,519
he's efficient, even when he's going with the rest of

1420
01:05:21,559 --> 01:05:23,840
the Pacers and Caitlin Cooper's talked about this a bunch.

1421
01:05:24,079 --> 01:05:27,559
There's just no catch and shoot instincts. There from him really,

1422
01:05:28,000 --> 01:05:31,239
and but the reason it feels like they're not mentioned

1423
01:05:31,280 --> 01:05:32,880
in the rumor mail because you look at them. I'm

1424
01:05:32,920 --> 01:05:35,719
with you, Yeah, you make these guys available, but you

1425
01:05:35,800 --> 01:05:37,840
have to trade them in a very specific because you're

1426
01:05:37,880 --> 01:05:40,000
not just trading these guys for draft picks because of

1427
01:05:40,000 --> 01:05:41,960
where you're at. And I think that's why they're not

1428
01:05:42,039 --> 01:05:45,960
mentioned is because the teams like what teams would even

1429
01:05:46,280 --> 01:05:48,639
they're in this weird spot where it's the pacers internally

1430
01:05:48,679 --> 01:05:51,360
probably value them more that always happens with your own player,

1431
01:05:51,400 --> 01:05:53,280
but we're talking about guys who are on rookie scales.

1432
01:05:53,760 --> 01:05:56,159
I think there's more of a discrepancy there and then

1433
01:05:56,199 --> 01:05:59,159
it's okay, what team. The teams that are gonna trade

1434
01:05:59,159 --> 01:06:02,360
first round picks are traditionally the teams that wouldn't play

1435
01:06:02,639 --> 01:06:04,719
either of these guys just for where they're at in

1436
01:06:04,760 --> 01:06:07,159
the or lean on them a ton because of their timelines,

1437
01:06:07,400 --> 01:06:09,199
and it just puts them in a sticky spots where

1438
01:06:09,239 --> 01:06:11,920
you're really only looking at moving one or both of them.

1439
01:06:11,960 --> 01:06:14,440
If it's part of what I think, you know you

1440
01:06:14,480 --> 01:06:16,119
and I could sit this and say I'm not gonna

1441
01:06:16,119 --> 01:06:17,960
throw a name out in a fen Pacer stands, but

1442
01:06:18,000 --> 01:06:20,000
it's yeah, you would give him up for this player.

1443
01:06:20,639 --> 01:06:23,480
They would probably looking at it through the prism level, like, no,

1444
01:06:23,559 --> 01:06:25,679
it needs to be if we're giving up Benn Nicmathrin

1445
01:06:25,719 --> 01:06:27,239
and door Jars Walker, it needs to be like a

1446
01:06:27,280 --> 01:06:28,280
really big trade.

1447
01:06:28,840 --> 01:06:31,400
Speaker 2: So like, I know that we can just play this

1448
01:06:31,519 --> 01:06:35,480
card almost all the time, But is something they could

1449
01:06:35,519 --> 01:06:38,559
get from Brooklyn like worth it to them because Brooklyn

1450
01:06:38,639 --> 01:06:40,440
is the type of team that should be interested in

1451
01:06:40,480 --> 01:06:44,840
guys exactly like this, right, that have shown something on

1452
01:06:44,880 --> 01:06:47,400
the team that drafted them, but just aren't positioned to

1453
01:06:47,480 --> 01:06:50,599
be big pieces with that for like, Brooklyn can do

1454
01:06:50,639 --> 01:06:53,000
the thing where it's like, guess what, guys thirty five

1455
01:06:53,039 --> 01:06:55,280
minutes a night, do whatever you want for the rest

1456
01:06:55,320 --> 01:06:56,519
of the year. Let's just see.

1457
01:06:56,320 --> 01:06:58,519
Speaker 1: Walker in Brooklyn, I think would be nasty.

1458
01:06:58,400 --> 01:07:00,599
Speaker 2: Well, so right, like and I think Brooklyn and if

1459
01:07:00,599 --> 01:07:04,039
he's not, oh well, Brooklyn is just trading vets that

1460
01:07:04,079 --> 01:07:06,360
it doesn't really want and you get, you know, get

1461
01:07:06,360 --> 01:07:08,400
back team control of guys on rookie scale deals all

1462
01:07:08,400 --> 01:07:11,960
those benefits. Like, is there something from Brooklyn that should

1463
01:07:12,119 --> 01:07:14,440
entice the Pacers enough to consider moving one or both

1464
01:07:14,440 --> 01:07:16,320
of these guys there because the fit from Brooklyn side

1465
01:07:16,360 --> 01:07:17,039
is a no brainer.

1466
01:07:17,360 --> 01:07:19,000
Speaker 1: Well, let's tackle it from this way. Would you give

1467
01:07:19,079 --> 01:07:22,360
up one of these guys for Cam Johnson, so Obi

1468
01:07:22,440 --> 01:07:25,880
Toppin plus Mathrin or Walker and then maybe there needs

1469
01:07:25,880 --> 01:07:28,559
to be other salary involved there. But would you give

1470
01:07:28,639 --> 01:07:31,800
up that package if you're Indiana for Cam Johnson?

1471
01:07:31,960 --> 01:07:33,239
Speaker 2: I think I would, wouldn't you?

1472
01:07:33,280 --> 01:07:35,039
Speaker 1: Now I don't think the NETS accept that package is

1473
01:07:35,039 --> 01:07:35,880
the problem because.

1474
01:07:36,440 --> 01:07:38,239
Speaker 2: Well, you might do better. Yeah, you might be able

1475
01:07:38,280 --> 01:07:39,320
to do better for Cam.

1476
01:07:39,639 --> 01:07:42,599
Speaker 1: Now I'm asking you, would you give up both and

1477
01:07:42,679 --> 01:07:45,159
you're getting rid of Toppin to get Dorian Phinney Smith

1478
01:07:45,199 --> 01:07:47,480
and Cam Johnson. There'd have to be other moving parts.

1479
01:07:47,480 --> 01:07:49,920
But is that? Is that not? That's like one of

1480
01:07:49,960 --> 01:07:52,159
an interesting thing where I think the NETS might be

1481
01:07:52,199 --> 01:07:54,880
getting enough, but I'm wondering if Indiana is not. And

1482
01:07:54,920 --> 01:07:58,719
I think if you pushed me, i'd hopefully say do

1483
01:07:58,840 --> 01:08:01,840
it YEA from the Pace just because I view them

1484
01:08:01,880 --> 01:08:04,800
getting off Obie Toppings. Yes, I know cap Space one,

1485
01:08:04,840 --> 01:08:06,360
they're not going to have it too. It doesn't matter

1486
01:08:06,360 --> 01:08:08,920
in Indie, but that deal is always going to be

1487
01:08:08,960 --> 01:08:13,119
part of the other side saying we're doing this for you.

1488
01:08:13,239 --> 01:08:15,159
Until gets into the front of yourself. We're taking on

1489
01:08:15,199 --> 01:08:17,520
the OBI topping contract, like that's part of the value

1490
01:08:17,880 --> 01:08:18,800
that we're sending out.

1491
01:08:19,000 --> 01:08:21,159
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I think I would. I think really

1492
01:08:21,159 --> 01:08:22,760
hard about that now if you could work it so

1493
01:08:22,880 --> 01:08:25,560
it's so you have Claxton in there, because I could

1494
01:08:25,680 --> 01:08:28,600
see Claxton making sense as a Miles Turner replacement, who's

1495
01:08:28,600 --> 01:08:30,199
going to be a free agent, Like he's just your

1496
01:08:30,199 --> 01:08:33,279
center going forward, a different player, not going to give

1497
01:08:33,279 --> 01:08:35,760
you the spacing, but is kind of in the right

1498
01:08:35,800 --> 01:08:40,239
age band like is lockdown, like you know interesting. I

1499
01:08:41,279 --> 01:08:44,239
think you probably wouldn't. It would be hard to get

1500
01:08:44,439 --> 01:08:49,039
both Cam Johnson and Claxton without giving up both of

1501
01:08:49,039 --> 01:08:51,840
these two topping And maybe you're sending picks at that

1502
01:08:51,880 --> 01:08:52,439
point too.

1503
01:08:52,800 --> 01:08:54,920
Speaker 1: No, I don't. I'm not so I wouldn't send picks

1504
01:08:54,920 --> 01:08:57,199
in addition to these two as the pacers. I understand

1505
01:08:57,199 --> 01:08:59,119
why the Nets would want it. I think because you

1506
01:08:59,199 --> 01:09:02,000
have Nie Smits money that you could get to and

1507
01:09:02,000 --> 01:09:04,359
they've been defending well while Ni Smith has been well,

1508
01:09:04,640 --> 01:09:06,399
not the entire time, but for the month of December.

1509
01:09:06,680 --> 01:09:07,760
I still think he's important.

1510
01:09:07,920 --> 01:09:09,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree, I.

1511
01:09:10,039 --> 01:09:12,359
Speaker 1: Think would you so you would prefer I guess Claxton

1512
01:09:12,359 --> 01:09:14,920
and Johnson makes sense from a net value perspective, it

1513
01:09:14,960 --> 01:09:18,319
just feels weird to Okay, so we're bringing in Miles

1514
01:09:18,359 --> 01:09:21,000
Turner's replacement, what does that mean for might be a

1515
01:09:21,000 --> 01:09:23,079
pretty good segue though, because guess who's next up on

1516
01:09:23,079 --> 01:09:25,399
the list. Yeah, there it is. Now.

1517
01:09:25,520 --> 01:09:27,920
Speaker 2: Now you can flip him. Now you can move him

1518
01:09:27,960 --> 01:09:31,920
somewhere else, make let somebody else resign him. I mean,

1519
01:09:31,960 --> 01:09:34,119
maybe he goes to Brooklyn and Brooklyn just uses its

1520
01:09:34,119 --> 01:09:36,079
cap space on him.

1521
01:09:36,239 --> 01:09:39,960
Speaker 1: I just I think I prefer Turner next to Siaka

1522
01:09:40,039 --> 01:09:45,000
more than I would have Claxton. I know Claxton's younger, Turner's.

1523
01:09:43,880 --> 01:09:47,000
Speaker 2: Better and fits better. But I'm just thinking of it work.

1524
01:09:47,039 --> 01:09:49,079
By the way, we're just spitballing like from.

1525
01:09:49,760 --> 01:09:53,199
Speaker 1: Both like if like having that's a lot wrapped up

1526
01:09:53,239 --> 01:09:55,720
and then Siakam and let's say Turner costs twenty a year,

1527
01:09:55,760 --> 01:09:57,000
and then you have Clax and that's a lot of

1528
01:09:57,000 --> 01:09:59,239
money invested in your four or five rotation right there.

1529
01:09:59,319 --> 01:10:01,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, But I mean you're getting off top of it.

1530
01:10:02,279 --> 01:10:06,640
That's too much, that's too much. It's just it's a

1531
01:10:06,720 --> 01:10:09,119
it's a like a risk aversion thing, like we just

1532
01:10:09,359 --> 01:10:12,199
you swap Claxon in, dust your hands off, like we

1533
01:10:12,199 --> 01:10:14,840
don't have to worry about losing our starting center, whereas

1534
01:10:14,880 --> 01:10:17,039
with Turner there's some unknowns there you don't I mean,

1535
01:10:17,039 --> 01:10:18,760
although they probably have a pretty good idea of what

1536
01:10:18,760 --> 01:10:21,039
it's going to take. I would assume they've had such

1537
01:10:21,039 --> 01:10:22,840
a long relationship, he's been there for a time, that

1538
01:10:22,920 --> 01:10:25,520
always it. I mean, I don't know.

1539
01:10:25,680 --> 01:10:29,039
Speaker 1: I actually don't think Turner should be Again, I'm not

1540
01:10:29,079 --> 01:10:32,000
saying he's untouchable, but like, what are you getting for

1541
01:10:32,119 --> 01:10:34,399
Miles Turner? Or what is the player you're acquiring where

1542
01:10:34,399 --> 01:10:37,000
you feel good? I don't think Claxton falls under that bucket,

1543
01:10:37,000 --> 01:10:39,439
But like, what is the if you're trading Turner? I'm

1544
01:10:39,439 --> 01:10:42,479
assuming it's someone was either stupid and gave you way

1545
01:10:42,479 --> 01:10:46,520
too much draft equity, or you're upgrading the spot in

1546
01:10:46,560 --> 01:10:48,560
the front court next to Siakam. It's like, what is

1547
01:10:48,600 --> 01:10:51,560
the player where you would feel you're not giving up Turner? Like,

1548
01:10:51,600 --> 01:10:53,680
I'm not trading him for Cam Johnson and then running

1549
01:10:53,920 --> 01:10:56,159
Sakam at the five with Cam Johnson. That's not something

1550
01:10:56,199 --> 01:10:56,640
I'm doing.

1551
01:10:57,159 --> 01:11:00,560
Speaker 2: I mean, Weirdly, Claxton makes some sense finance answers aside.

1552
01:11:00,720 --> 01:11:03,119
Now I'm really talking myself into this because if like

1553
01:11:03,279 --> 01:11:06,960
what you lose in Turner is significant, like the spacing,

1554
01:11:07,279 --> 01:11:10,600
the shot blocking, but like Claxon, I think Claxon's just

1555
01:11:10,640 --> 01:11:14,159
a better defender overall, and you get the switch for

1556
01:11:14,359 --> 01:11:17,000
stuff from him, which is like if you're a Pacers

1557
01:11:17,039 --> 01:11:19,960
team that's constantly having to hide guys like Haliburton or

1558
01:11:20,000 --> 01:11:22,920
like make up for stuff like that. I think Claxton's

1559
01:11:22,960 --> 01:11:26,000
ability to just blow up any screening action by just

1560
01:11:26,039 --> 01:11:28,600
switching onto the ball handler. I know you probably would

1561
01:11:28,640 --> 01:11:30,359
not bring him up very often, but.

1562
01:11:30,439 --> 01:11:33,520
Speaker 1: He's also the better rebounder too, I would say.

1563
01:11:33,520 --> 01:11:37,600
Speaker 2: Right, that's another issue. Younger gets up and down fine.

1564
01:11:37,640 --> 01:11:41,279
Like I think you could make the case that Claxton would,

1565
01:11:41,439 --> 01:11:44,000
in a different way bring at least as much value

1566
01:11:44,000 --> 01:11:47,000
as Turner does. But but it'd be a weird switch

1567
01:11:47,000 --> 01:11:50,760
because Turner does make sense at least for them offensively

1568
01:11:51,159 --> 01:11:52,840
like he I think he probably gives you quite a

1569
01:11:52,840 --> 01:11:54,000
bit more there, So.

1570
01:11:54,039 --> 01:11:56,159
Speaker 1: That feels like because and what's also weird is that

1571
01:11:56,199 --> 01:11:57,800
it would have to be part of one of our

1572
01:11:57,840 --> 01:12:00,880
mega deals because I wouldn't get up more than Miles

1573
01:12:00,960 --> 01:12:03,039
Turner for Nick Claxton. But if I'm the Nets, why

1574
01:12:03,079 --> 01:12:06,399
am I taking on Miles Turner's It would have to

1575
01:12:06,439 --> 01:12:07,920
be almost a bigger trade or its is they're a

1576
01:12:07,920 --> 01:12:10,960
third team involved, they're giving something to the Nets, then

1577
01:12:11,680 --> 01:12:14,079
I just not untouchable. But I just don't know that

1578
01:12:14,119 --> 01:12:17,079
they're gonna do. I see where you're coming from with Claxton.

1579
01:12:17,920 --> 01:12:21,119
I just I think I appreciate the concept of his

1580
01:12:21,199 --> 01:12:22,479
stretch too much.

1581
01:12:22,640 --> 01:12:24,960
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, And to be to be clear, I hadn't

1582
01:12:25,000 --> 01:12:28,319
thought about Nick Claxton on the Pacers until we talked

1583
01:12:28,319 --> 01:12:28,840
about it five.

1584
01:12:29,279 --> 01:12:34,439
Speaker 1: The podcasts are fun because like, but to hear me,

1585
01:12:34,600 --> 01:12:37,199
so the Lakers come calling, they will give you their

1586
01:12:37,199 --> 01:12:39,600
twenty twenty nine first round pick for Miles Turner and

1587
01:12:39,640 --> 01:12:43,880
you're taking salary X. I doubt it's RUI it's probably

1588
01:12:43,920 --> 01:12:45,840
d lo or Gabe Vinson and Jail, Like, are you

1589
01:12:45,920 --> 01:12:47,000
doing a deal like that?

1590
01:12:48,239 --> 01:12:50,880
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm just like, so the Pacers right now

1591
01:12:51,000 --> 01:12:55,039
are eighth. They still have a negative differential. They're fifteen

1592
01:12:55,039 --> 01:13:00,079
and sixteen. That feels like that just that feels like

1593
01:13:00,119 --> 01:13:02,239
the wrong type of move for them because of what

1594
01:13:02,279 --> 01:13:04,960
we just said about Walker and matherin of like, what

1595
01:13:05,000 --> 01:13:07,399
do we want this pick for unless we know we

1596
01:13:07,479 --> 01:13:09,479
need it to throw into a trade that is for

1597
01:13:09,560 --> 01:13:11,640
another you know what I mean, like, which is why

1598
01:13:11,680 --> 01:13:13,560
not just try to get the guy you're going for.

1599
01:13:13,680 --> 01:13:15,840
Speaker 1: I guess what we're saying is we're pretty much in

1600
01:13:15,880 --> 01:13:19,279
agreement despite the Pacers disappointing relative to all their expectations,

1601
01:13:19,359 --> 01:13:22,079
is that we are still they need to act as

1602
01:13:22,119 --> 01:13:25,119
buyers because there's not going to be in the players

1603
01:13:25,119 --> 01:13:27,279
that they would move. There's not There doesn't seem to

1604
01:13:27,279 --> 01:13:29,000
be a ton of incentive to the let's get this

1605
01:13:29,119 --> 01:13:29,880
draft equity.

1606
01:13:30,239 --> 01:13:33,479
Speaker 2: Yeah. I don't think draft equity. I mean, I don't

1607
01:13:33,479 --> 01:13:36,840
think it should be their first sort of target. I

1608
01:13:37,000 --> 01:13:41,000
just I think, yeah, I think even if you're trading Turner,

1609
01:13:41,199 --> 01:13:43,239
which is exactly the type of guy you would trade

1610
01:13:43,279 --> 01:13:46,239
for draft picks in another you know situation.

1611
01:13:46,239 --> 01:13:48,279
Speaker 1: I mean, they could go on like the next they

1612
01:13:48,279 --> 01:13:50,079
could they could get worse over the next two or

1613
01:13:50,119 --> 01:13:52,680
three weeks, and maybe it's, oh, he's going into free agency,

1614
01:13:52,680 --> 01:13:55,359
do we just get first? But then it just gets tough.

1615
01:13:55,479 --> 01:13:56,600
You're not going to be a team that has all

1616
01:13:56,680 --> 01:13:58,640
this money to spend. Do you think you can approximate

1617
01:13:59,199 --> 01:14:01,239
a good center with what you're going to have at

1618
01:14:01,239 --> 01:14:03,319
your disposal from there. That's what's also tricky.

1619
01:14:03,600 --> 01:14:05,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, And and by the way, trading for someone

1620
01:14:05,920 --> 01:14:08,479
like Claxton who's been hurt all the time, but like

1621
01:14:08,840 --> 01:14:11,079
not something a Pacers team that can't keep centers healthy.

1622
01:14:11,079 --> 01:14:11,520
It should be.

1623
01:14:11,720 --> 01:14:15,119
Speaker 1: That's why I'm team just have have Cam Johnson, Claxton,

1624
01:14:15,159 --> 01:14:17,600
Siakham and Turner. And so you're like weirdly big and

1625
01:14:17,640 --> 01:14:20,039
you're not really super strong or a great rebounding team.

1626
01:14:20,039 --> 01:14:22,159
But do it anyway? Do it? I'm all, yeah, this

1627
01:14:22,199 --> 01:14:25,399
player is mine and he's on the Clippers. Grant. Why

1628
01:14:25,479 --> 01:14:27,720
haven't we heard about Kawhi Leonard in the trade rumor mill?

1629
01:14:27,760 --> 01:14:29,439
What's up with that? I want to.

1630
01:14:29,439 --> 01:14:33,760
Speaker 2: Say, I think I probably am doing like some far

1631
01:14:33,880 --> 01:14:37,119
fetched or like a dream trade target thing. I had

1632
01:14:37,199 --> 01:14:39,840
him as a Warrior's target when it was amidst the

1633
01:14:39,880 --> 01:14:42,479
marketing and Paul George or probably after that.

1634
01:14:42,920 --> 01:14:45,199
Speaker 1: Do you know what I proposed on my solo pod

1635
01:14:45,239 --> 01:14:50,279
the other day, Kawhi Leonard for Jimmy Butler and Alec Burks.

1636
01:14:51,560 --> 01:14:54,279
Because if you're the Heat, you're kind of accepting, okay,

1637
01:14:54,279 --> 01:14:57,199
maybe this becomes a gap year and you do take

1638
01:14:57,239 --> 01:15:00,800
on longer money for Kawhi Leonard, but pe Kawhi Leonard,

1639
01:15:01,000 --> 01:15:03,359
who is younger than Jimmy Butler, he's also better, yeah,

1640
01:15:03,399 --> 01:15:06,720
than Jimmy Butler. And so are you maybe saying okay,

1641
01:15:07,000 --> 01:15:11,319
like and we think that we can build like around

1642
01:15:11,399 --> 01:15:13,159
Kawi Leonard. And then if you're the Clippers, it's okay,

1643
01:15:13,199 --> 01:15:16,560
Kawhi Leonard is better, but Jimmy Butler is more available.

1644
01:15:16,600 --> 01:15:18,960
Maybe they appreciate the idea of well, he's technically an

1645
01:15:19,000 --> 01:15:22,000
expiring contract only has one more year left, or maybe

1646
01:15:22,000 --> 01:15:23,960
they've you getting off Kawhi Leonard as part of it.

1647
01:15:24,840 --> 01:15:26,840
I don't think the Clippers are giving up a twenty

1648
01:15:26,880 --> 01:15:29,079
thirty pick as part of that trade. I will say that.

1649
01:15:29,239 --> 01:15:31,840
Speaker 2: If if that happened and you and and what you

1650
01:15:31,960 --> 01:15:35,399
know is Kawhi is going to Miami, don't you immediately

1651
01:15:35,680 --> 01:15:38,279
have some version of like, oh shit, like they're gonna

1652
01:15:38,279 --> 01:15:41,039
figure it out, he's gonna play seventy games and he's

1653
01:15:41,079 --> 01:15:43,800
gonna win the MVP, like like, oh they did it again.

1654
01:15:44,159 --> 01:15:46,640
I would wouldn't you feel like something? It would? It

1655
01:15:46,640 --> 01:15:48,560
would you know how you used to be whoever the

1656
01:15:48,560 --> 01:15:51,239
Spurs drafted in the second round? It would just possibly

1657
01:15:51,239 --> 01:15:53,520
be like, ah, they did it again, like they found

1658
01:15:53,520 --> 01:15:56,239
this guy. You just automatically believe it. That's probably not

1659
01:15:57,199 --> 01:16:00,479
uh totally up to date to believe that about Miami anymore.

1660
01:16:00,680 --> 01:16:03,359
But I would have that thought of, like, Okay, we're

1661
01:16:03,399 --> 01:16:06,000
gonna get two more amazing Kawhi years that we weren't

1662
01:16:06,000 --> 01:16:08,000
getting otherwise, I would I would assume.

1663
01:16:07,680 --> 01:16:09,920
Speaker 1: That who do you think that that deals tougher for

1664
01:16:09,960 --> 01:16:12,319
Miami to make, right or is it actually tougher for

1665
01:16:12,479 --> 01:16:13,000
LA to make?

1666
01:16:13,800 --> 01:16:16,399
Speaker 2: I think it ooh man, that's a great question. My

1667
01:16:16,479 --> 01:16:20,640
first reaction was, it's tougher for LA to make because

1668
01:16:21,960 --> 01:16:27,960
you know, Kawhi is better and Butler's maybe gonna hit

1669
01:16:27,960 --> 01:16:31,680
free agency. Uh, and so you could just be wiping

1670
01:16:31,720 --> 01:16:34,600
off a fifty million dollars salary slot from the books

1671
01:16:34,800 --> 01:16:38,039
and getting really nothing for it. So I think it's

1672
01:16:38,159 --> 01:16:41,039
I think I view the Clipper side as a little scarier.

1673
01:16:43,399 --> 01:16:46,000
You think my you think just from Miami side, trading

1674
01:16:46,039 --> 01:16:49,279
for Kawhi and assuming you're getting anything consistent is just to.

1675
01:16:49,520 --> 01:16:52,199
Speaker 1: Jimmy Butler return like as the Clippers, like, let's say

1676
01:16:52,880 --> 01:16:55,479
Jimmy Butler's not if you let Jimmy Butler leave it's

1677
01:16:55,520 --> 01:16:58,039
because you wanted to let Jimmy Butler leave. It's kind

1678
01:16:58,079 --> 01:17:01,840
of the Paul George situation. And so I would then think, well,

1679
01:17:01,880 --> 01:17:06,000
they wanted the expiring contract, but if you keep him

1680
01:17:06,000 --> 01:17:08,079
even it's gonna be on a two year deal. So

1681
01:17:08,079 --> 01:17:10,239
you even kind of shaved off because Kahi is under

1682
01:17:10,239 --> 01:17:12,279
a contract for three more years after this one. Right,

1683
01:17:12,479 --> 01:17:14,159
so now you've kind of shortened that. And with the

1684
01:17:14,239 --> 01:17:18,880
uncertainty surrounding James Harden, I think it's easier for them

1685
01:17:18,960 --> 01:17:21,199
to make. But maybe I'm not approaching it from the

1686
01:17:21,279 --> 01:17:24,159
right because then it's Miami. If QUI letter doesn't pan out,

1687
01:17:24,439 --> 01:17:26,760
then you did lose Jimmy Butler for not just nothing,

1688
01:17:26,800 --> 01:17:28,720
but then a bad contract, right.

1689
01:17:28,840 --> 01:17:31,359
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, that is the risk I think. I mean,

1690
01:17:31,439 --> 01:17:34,359
it's a massive risk. I think, like I get oh

1691
01:17:34,439 --> 01:17:36,880
so over the life of let's say Butler signs a

1692
01:17:36,880 --> 01:17:38,880
two year extension. And by the way, we never see

1693
01:17:38,880 --> 01:17:42,159
trades like this where like to basically all NBA guys,

1694
01:17:42,159 --> 01:17:45,000
it's like a one for one, it's like a challenge trade. Uh.

1695
01:17:45,800 --> 01:17:49,079
But so you say Butler signs for two more, so

1696
01:17:49,199 --> 01:17:52,199
basically their contracts, let's just let's just forget forget how.

1697
01:17:52,840 --> 01:17:54,960
Speaker 1: I have to interrupt because I was wrong. Kawhi actolutely

1698
01:17:55,000 --> 01:17:56,560
has two more years left on his deal.

1699
01:17:56,439 --> 01:17:59,159
Speaker 2: Okay for that perfect perfect So if Butler opts out

1700
01:17:59,159 --> 01:18:01,239
and he signs the two for one twenty, their their

1701
01:18:01,319 --> 01:18:04,680
deals are exactly two more years after this one. Who

1702
01:18:04,680 --> 01:18:10,359
would you feel is the best bet to get I

1703
01:18:10,399 --> 01:18:12,279
was gonna say, like, play the most games, but I

1704
01:18:12,319 --> 01:18:14,680
feel like that's probably just Butler, although it's not a

1705
01:18:14,680 --> 01:18:19,079
throwaway like like like as your best player for the

1706
01:18:19,119 --> 01:18:19,960
next two years.

1707
01:18:21,319 --> 01:18:21,760
Speaker 1: I don't know.

1708
01:18:21,960 --> 01:18:22,680
Speaker 2: I don't either.

1709
01:18:23,520 --> 01:18:26,680
Speaker 1: I honestly don't know. It's the availability thing with Kawhi.

1710
01:18:26,720 --> 01:18:29,039
But do you feel better or maybe not better? But

1711
01:18:29,119 --> 01:18:31,560
is it more of a worthwhile risk because Miami plays

1712
01:18:31,560 --> 01:18:33,560
in the East and it's sort of a we just

1713
01:18:33,600 --> 01:18:36,000
need to figure out a way to get him to

1714
01:18:36,800 --> 01:18:39,520
April right and then like so like if you did that,

1715
01:18:39,760 --> 01:18:41,520
I mean, the Clippers are kind of doing that right now,

1716
01:18:41,560 --> 01:18:44,079
so maybe I shouldn't say that, but normally you wouldn't,

1717
01:18:44,239 --> 01:18:46,399
Like we didn't expect the Clippers to be afloat without

1718
01:18:46,479 --> 01:18:49,159
Kawhi at all this year. If you're in the East,

1719
01:18:49,159 --> 01:18:51,560
it's kind of like, if Kawhi can play in like

1720
01:18:51,600 --> 01:18:55,039
thirty games, we get him to April, because well, I

1721
01:18:55,199 --> 01:18:58,680
feel better if they're both healthy. You feel better about

1722
01:18:58,720 --> 01:19:01,560
Kawhi being your best player in a postseason series, right.

1723
01:19:01,800 --> 01:19:05,439
Speaker 2: Which is insane because that's Jimmy Butler's whole identity. Right.

1724
01:19:05,479 --> 01:19:07,279
It's like, well, we just get into a playoff series

1725
01:19:07,319 --> 01:19:09,039
and Jimmy will be the best player on the floor.

1726
01:19:09,079 --> 01:19:11,920
Like that's been a that has happened. But I also

1727
01:19:12,000 --> 01:19:14,800
feel like I'd rather just have Kawhi. I just think

1728
01:19:15,479 --> 01:19:18,239
it's it's like, when Kawhi is the best player on

1729
01:19:18,279 --> 01:19:20,680
the floor in a playoff series after whatever's happened during

1730
01:19:20,720 --> 01:19:23,239
the regular season, it's kind of like, well, yeah, like

1731
01:19:23,319 --> 01:19:25,800
that's that's who that is. But when Butler does it

1732
01:19:25,840 --> 01:19:28,920
where we have the like we're like amazed, you know,

1733
01:19:28,960 --> 01:19:31,399
it seems like more surprising. So I guess that's an

1734
01:19:31,479 --> 01:19:34,600
argument for Kawhi because we all collectively agree that if

1735
01:19:34,600 --> 01:19:37,720
he's on the floor unhealthy, he's just the top five,

1736
01:19:38,039 --> 01:19:41,079
top ten guy. That's probably stupid to keep thinking that,

1737
01:19:41,239 --> 01:19:44,039
But with Butler, it's it's more of like, look at

1738
01:19:44,039 --> 01:19:46,720
this assent that he's made, you know, like I don't

1739
01:19:46,720 --> 01:19:48,760
I don't know how to I don't know how to

1740
01:19:48,840 --> 01:19:50,600
view that. I think i've I would rather have Kawhi,

1741
01:19:50,600 --> 01:19:53,359
but like both of these guys will probably average forty

1742
01:19:53,359 --> 01:19:54,239
five games a year.

1743
01:19:54,560 --> 01:19:55,960
Speaker 1: I just want to make it clear I did not

1744
01:19:56,520 --> 01:19:58,640
rous to spend that much time on this. I included

1745
01:19:58,680 --> 01:20:00,880
this is more of a blowby. No, that was one

1746
01:20:00,880 --> 01:20:04,279
of their grenades. But I'm glad we talked ourselves into

1747
01:20:04,279 --> 01:20:05,640
a pretzel grant. Who's next?

1748
01:20:05,680 --> 01:20:09,840
Speaker 2: This is Anthony Davis. Uh, this is someone who again

1749
01:20:10,079 --> 01:20:12,239
if so, this is a little bit like the Steph

1750
01:20:12,319 --> 01:20:14,720
thing you were saying of, like, if you're being coldly logical,

1751
01:20:15,319 --> 01:20:17,359
what are you doing if you're not winning at the

1752
01:20:17,399 --> 01:20:21,039
highest level with this guy who's still really great? And

1753
01:20:21,399 --> 01:20:23,920
for the Lakers, it's like, I don't know, maybe what

1754
01:20:24,000 --> 01:20:26,880
are they right now? They're in the Giant you know, morass,

1755
01:20:26,920 --> 01:20:29,439
that is the middle of the West. They're sixth. The

1756
01:20:29,479 --> 01:20:32,760
difference between sixth and third is like three games, and

1757
01:20:32,800 --> 01:20:36,880
that's the same difference between sixth and what twelve, So whatever,

1758
01:20:36,960 --> 01:20:40,000
who knows where they actually are. But they don't feel

1759
01:20:40,000 --> 01:20:43,399
like a contender. You have a player that is not

1760
01:20:43,720 --> 01:20:46,600
That's why they don't feel like but would you but

1761
01:20:46,680 --> 01:20:51,119
Anthony Davis is the best other than Steph, and maybe

1762
01:20:51,399 --> 01:20:54,039
next might be a better player than Steph. Right now today,

1763
01:20:54,119 --> 01:20:58,279
I don't know, if you're not going anywhere and you're

1764
01:20:58,319 --> 01:21:00,720
not going to make the three firsts, you know, in

1765
01:21:00,800 --> 01:21:03,479
salary for another star to try to win, now, Like,

1766
01:21:04,079 --> 01:21:05,920
do you think about it? I don't. I don't know.

1767
01:21:05,960 --> 01:21:07,279
I think I think they probably have to.

1768
01:21:08,079 --> 01:21:10,520
Speaker 1: I would say, isn't the only reason for him not

1769
01:21:10,560 --> 01:21:13,159
to be available? Well, you said it. If you're gonna

1770
01:21:13,199 --> 01:21:14,960
go all in, then it's we're not. We're gonna keep them.

1771
01:21:14,960 --> 01:21:17,199
But if they're not gonna go all in, you're just saying, well,

1772
01:21:17,479 --> 01:21:19,840
we don't control our first round pick in twenty five

1773
01:21:19,960 --> 01:21:22,359
or twenty seven, so that's why we're not gonna trade

1774
01:21:22,359 --> 01:21:26,000
Anthony Davis. So you're not gonna go all in, and

1775
01:21:26,000 --> 01:21:28,640
then you're not gonna trade Anthony, because as of right now,

1776
01:21:28,680 --> 01:21:31,239
they should trade Anthony Davis. I have seen no convincing

1777
01:21:31,319 --> 01:21:33,600
argument other than they don't control their first round pick

1778
01:21:33,920 --> 01:21:36,119
in twenty twenty five or twenty twenty seven. And maybe

1779
01:21:36,199 --> 01:21:38,560
that's convincing enough. But I'm almost sort of like, well,

1780
01:21:38,600 --> 01:21:40,680
this season, you already know you're not gonna give away

1781
01:21:40,680 --> 01:21:43,479
a top five pick or most likely or something wild,

1782
01:21:43,960 --> 01:21:45,800
and then it's just bank on maybe trying to figure

1783
01:21:45,840 --> 01:21:48,119
it out. Like if you so the trade I proposed,

1784
01:21:48,720 --> 01:21:50,560
I should be looking at the exact framework because it

1785
01:21:50,640 --> 01:21:54,960
got a lot of traction on, Like would the YouTube

1786
01:21:55,000 --> 01:21:57,119
reaction stuff. I know Kenny for Reo looked at it.

1787
01:21:57,159 --> 01:21:59,760
There were a couple others that people message me about,

1788
01:22:00,560 --> 01:22:02,960
like the Warriors. We're talking about the Warriors going all in.

1789
01:22:03,000 --> 01:22:06,600
If you got so three first round picks and two

1790
01:22:06,640 --> 01:22:09,960
swaps and Kaminga and Wiggins from the Warriors, Like, isn't

1791
01:22:09,960 --> 01:22:12,319
that a trade that you should just do? So you're

1792
01:22:12,359 --> 01:22:15,640
getting Golden State's first round er in twenty five, twenty seven,

1793
01:22:16,079 --> 01:22:18,560
and then twenty and thirty, and you only get it

1794
01:22:18,600 --> 01:22:21,359
if it's between one and twenty, and then you get

1795
01:22:21,399 --> 01:22:25,640
swaps in twenty twenty six and twenty twenty eight, Kaminga, Wiggins,

1796
01:22:25,680 --> 01:22:27,800
and then you could throw in GP two. Kevan Mooney,

1797
01:22:27,840 --> 01:22:30,199
whoever you want to make the money work, shouldn't you

1798
01:22:30,239 --> 01:22:32,000
just pounce? If I'm the Warriors, by the way, I'm

1799
01:22:32,039 --> 01:22:34,680
making that trade too. But if you're the isn't that

1800
01:22:34,800 --> 01:22:37,399
enough to say yes? Independent of owning your own picks

1801
01:22:37,479 --> 01:22:38,239
or no.

1802
01:22:38,239 --> 01:22:40,600
Speaker 2: No, I think I think that's exactly the logic that

1803
01:22:41,079 --> 01:22:43,479
you that should be in play here. And also like

1804
01:22:44,239 --> 01:22:47,600
shorting the Warriors ladder half of this decade is not

1805
01:22:47,680 --> 01:22:50,159
a bad bet, Like just based on where they are,

1806
01:22:50,359 --> 01:22:52,920
you know that maybe they're going to be an attractive

1807
01:22:52,920 --> 01:22:55,680
free agency destination. Maybe free agency doesn't matter anymore, like

1808
01:22:55,720 --> 01:22:57,439
maybe like maybe that doesn't mean as much as it

1809
01:22:57,520 --> 01:23:00,399
used to. So yeah, I think that's right. It would

1810
01:23:00,439 --> 01:23:04,760
just be it would be so bizarre to see Davis

1811
01:23:04,800 --> 01:23:07,359
be the one when when all everybody is like, you know,

1812
01:23:07,720 --> 01:23:10,520
fancifully thinking about is Lebron being the one to go

1813
01:23:10,640 --> 01:23:13,359
to the Warriors as like the Big Veterans Star Edition,

1814
01:23:13,880 --> 01:23:16,560
but like Davis would just I mean one.

1815
01:23:16,760 --> 01:23:19,720
Speaker 1: Which, by the way, doesn't that seem seems old and

1816
01:23:19,760 --> 01:23:21,560
young at the same time, right, because it feels like

1817
01:23:21,560 --> 01:23:23,720
he's been around forever, so age thirty one is fine.

1818
01:23:23,760 --> 01:23:26,319
But then you're just thinking, oh, he's over thirty and

1819
01:23:26,399 --> 01:23:29,039
Anthony Davis is injured every five seconds.

1820
01:23:28,640 --> 01:23:31,760
Speaker 2: Right, No, I think I think, so what does he got?

1821
01:23:31,840 --> 01:23:34,119
He just extended, right, so he can be traded even

1822
01:23:34,119 --> 01:23:35,319
though he did sign in the.

1823
01:23:35,279 --> 01:23:38,000
Speaker 1: Extension, he'll be trade eligible and he has what does

1824
01:23:38,039 --> 01:23:38,920
he have four years.

1825
01:23:38,760 --> 01:23:41,560
Speaker 2: Left after He's got three after three after this one,

1826
01:23:41,600 --> 01:23:44,199
So yeah, he's gonna which and that extension pays him

1827
01:23:44,239 --> 01:23:47,239
fifty four next year, fifty eight and sixty three in

1828
01:23:47,279 --> 01:23:49,359
twenty seven twenty eight, which.

1829
01:23:49,319 --> 01:23:52,800
Speaker 1: Look so you're getting him through what age thirty four,

1830
01:23:52,920 --> 01:23:56,680
age thirty five, that's about like the cutoff of okay,

1831
01:23:56,760 --> 01:23:58,520
Like if you're going into at thirty six and thirty seven,

1832
01:23:58,520 --> 01:23:59,960
that's when you start to get worried. But that feels

1833
01:24:00,399 --> 01:24:02,560
the next three years of Anthony Davis, when he's healthy,

1834
01:24:02,600 --> 01:24:04,960
will be probably close to pee Anthony Davis.

1835
01:24:05,119 --> 01:24:09,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, like he'll be an all NBA level guy certainly,

1836
01:24:09,600 --> 01:24:12,600
you know the first couple. Maybe not by twenty seven

1837
01:24:12,600 --> 01:24:15,560
to twenty eight, but like the injury thing is probably

1838
01:24:15,560 --> 01:24:18,479
the bigger risker. Like just how much actual court time

1839
01:24:18,479 --> 01:24:20,159
are you going to get from him for that? That's

1840
01:24:20,199 --> 01:24:22,199
maybe the bigger concern. I would I don't think he's

1841
01:24:22,199 --> 01:24:24,439
gonna like not be an all star level player by

1842
01:24:24,439 --> 01:24:26,319
the end of it. I'd be surprised by that.

1843
01:24:26,640 --> 01:24:28,600
Speaker 1: Do you think it's complicated though? By so when you

1844
01:24:28,600 --> 01:24:30,680
look at the teams that maybe have the most picks

1845
01:24:30,720 --> 01:24:35,119
to trade and also buy Houston or okay, see, probably

1846
01:24:35,159 --> 01:24:37,840
shouldn't be in on Anthony Davis just looking at the

1847
01:24:37,840 --> 01:24:40,760
makeup of their teams. Okay, see for sure, Right you

1848
01:24:40,800 --> 01:24:42,319
have Holmegren, Heart and Stein. You're done.

1849
01:24:42,479 --> 01:24:43,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess you can make a case.

1850
01:24:43,760 --> 01:24:47,680
Speaker 1: Would you prefer Anthony Davis and Shangoon to you know,

1851
01:24:48,039 --> 01:24:50,920
Shang Goon and Jabari Smith Junior slash like having kind

1852
01:24:50,920 --> 01:24:52,039
of the smaller fours.

1853
01:24:52,439 --> 01:24:55,199
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's interesting to think about him. Yeah, I don't. Okay, see,

1854
01:24:55,239 --> 01:24:57,039
I think i'd rule out, but Houston is kind of

1855
01:24:57,600 --> 01:24:59,880
you know, one of the things Houston doesn't really have

1856
01:25:00,119 --> 01:25:02,840
is someone that's just gonna score, you know, for them

1857
01:25:03,039 --> 01:25:05,600
in at the end of close games, and like, weirdly,

1858
01:25:05,640 --> 01:25:08,000
that is kind of something Davis might be able to do.

1859
01:25:08,159 --> 01:25:09,720
I don't think that's the number one thing you want

1860
01:25:09,760 --> 01:25:11,800
him for, but the Lakers designed their offense to feature

1861
01:25:11,880 --> 01:25:14,399
him this year, and at least early on, he looked

1862
01:25:14,399 --> 01:25:17,119
great offensively in a more featured role, Like I think

1863
01:25:17,119 --> 01:25:21,439
he would give the the Rockets a pretty interesting dimension

1864
01:25:22,000 --> 01:25:24,479
because Shanoon is kind of a hub like player, but

1865
01:25:24,520 --> 01:25:27,439
he's not He's not date like Davis is gonna get

1866
01:25:27,479 --> 01:25:31,199
you more shots I think, I don't know. Yeah, of

1867
01:25:31,239 --> 01:25:33,520
the two, Houston I like better, but he is he

1868
01:25:33,600 --> 01:25:36,479
is like a weirdly tricky player to trade just because.

1869
01:25:37,000 --> 01:25:39,640
Speaker 1: He is he for Golden State. I was trying to

1870
01:25:39,640 --> 01:25:42,319
think of teams Indiana should just because he's under contracts,

1871
01:25:42,319 --> 01:25:44,960
you shouldn't care necessarily what he thinks. That would be

1872
01:25:45,000 --> 01:25:48,359
the okay ghost wing for this, that'd be interesting.

1873
01:25:49,520 --> 01:25:53,159
Speaker 2: Trying to think what else, like, yeah.

1874
01:25:52,560 --> 01:25:54,680
Speaker 1: Would he be? Would you like him in Memphis? Like

1875
01:25:54,720 --> 01:25:56,960
I know they have Edie and Jaron Jackson Junior and

1876
01:25:57,039 --> 01:25:59,760
Jay Huff and Brandon Clark, but as sort of a

1877
01:26:00,479 --> 01:26:02,680
like Anthony Davis and Jaron Jackson Junior. That's the hell

1878
01:26:02,720 --> 01:26:03,359
of the front court.

1879
01:26:03,479 --> 01:26:06,039
Speaker 2: That's nasty. Yeah, I mean you could even expand it

1880
01:26:06,039 --> 01:26:08,159
with him to teams like well, I was gonna say

1881
01:26:08,199 --> 01:26:12,560
teams like what if if there were a better free

1882
01:26:12,560 --> 01:26:15,520
agent class, I would almost say, like Brooklyn could just

1883
01:26:15,560 --> 01:26:17,920
go a big two again, just go trade for David

1884
01:26:18,119 --> 01:26:20,000
and then use that gap space and get your second

1885
01:26:20,000 --> 01:26:22,039
star and here we go, Hey, Jimmy Butler and Anthony

1886
01:26:22,119 --> 01:26:24,960
Davis and a top pick done. What could go wrong?

1887
01:26:26,239 --> 01:26:28,920
Speaker 1: What about? Oh my god, they just slipped my mind.

1888
01:26:28,920 --> 01:26:30,600
And we don't lie. What about him next to Wemby?

1889
01:26:30,680 --> 01:26:32,279
He doesn't want to play center? How about that?

1890
01:26:33,760 --> 01:26:36,560
Speaker 2: I mean, would he be a center there? I don't

1891
01:26:36,560 --> 01:26:40,640
know what. I guess we probably would. Yeah, that San

1892
01:26:40,680 --> 01:26:42,960
Antonio is a team we haven't really talked about too much.

1893
01:26:43,000 --> 01:26:45,520
I think we probably will as we get to certain players.

1894
01:26:47,520 --> 01:26:49,279
Speaker 1: Would be a team that I would say should go for.

1895
01:26:49,199 --> 01:26:51,920
Speaker 2: It, like Dallas. Could Dallas do it?

1896
01:26:52,520 --> 01:26:56,920
Speaker 1: They're talking about it? You think? I mean, like, you're

1897
01:26:56,960 --> 01:26:59,439
how many rotation players you're giving up for Davis plus

1898
01:26:59,439 --> 01:27:00,640
both your first round picks?

1899
01:27:00,920 --> 01:27:05,239
Speaker 2: It's the Butler package plus fifty percent more? Probably, Like

1900
01:27:05,920 --> 01:27:06,720
I don't know how you.

1901
01:27:07,239 --> 01:27:10,000
Speaker 1: I guess you don't feel bad about moving Kleiba and

1902
01:27:11,479 --> 01:27:13,640
Naji Marshall if you're getting back Davis. Whereas if you

1903
01:27:13,680 --> 01:27:15,760
did that for Butler, it's all right. It feels like

1904
01:27:15,760 --> 01:27:19,079
we like kind of nuked our like bigger rotation. But

1905
01:27:19,159 --> 01:27:21,239
now if it's Davis, you're also getting into. Okay, twenty

1906
01:27:21,239 --> 01:27:23,880
five first round are gone. You're twenty thirty or twenty

1907
01:27:23,880 --> 01:27:25,279
thirty one first round or whatever it is they have

1908
01:27:25,279 --> 01:27:28,279
available that's gone. You're not training? Are you training? Derek

1909
01:27:28,319 --> 01:27:30,640
Wively Ranton, No, right, like when part of the POB

1910
01:27:30,720 --> 01:27:31,840
we're playing those two together.

1911
01:27:33,840 --> 01:27:35,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess so you might have to. I feel

1912
01:27:36,000 --> 01:27:36,920
like Lakers.

1913
01:27:36,680 --> 01:27:40,239
Speaker 1: Are doing because then it's Luca, Kyrie and Ad and

1914
01:27:40,279 --> 01:27:42,720
then he's your fourth best player.

1915
01:27:42,760 --> 01:27:44,560
Speaker 2: That's why you're just keeping PJ.

1916
01:27:44,760 --> 01:27:46,720
Speaker 1: Washington. I guess as part of that there you go.

1917
01:27:46,920 --> 01:27:49,359
Speaker 2: Sure, Yeah, you're just cobbling it together. You're hoping, like

1918
01:27:49,439 --> 01:27:52,000
Jaden Hart, you're hoping a bunch of guys just can

1919
01:27:52,039 --> 01:27:54,399
excel in bigger roles. I think we've exhausted the Anthony

1920
01:27:54,479 --> 01:27:56,720
Davis trade. Okay, Lebron, it's all the same things, right,

1921
01:27:56,960 --> 01:27:59,079
Is it just Golden State? Is that the only one

1922
01:27:59,119 --> 01:27:59,680
we can do?

1923
01:28:00,119 --> 01:28:02,119
Speaker 1: There's no, and he doesn't. It's a different Like if

1924
01:28:02,159 --> 01:28:04,399
I'm Anthony Davis and the Lakers aren't doing anything, I

1925
01:28:04,399 --> 01:28:07,520
would personally ask for a trade with Lebron. It felt

1926
01:28:07,560 --> 01:28:09,199
like he went to the Lakers in the first place

1927
01:28:09,199 --> 01:28:13,159
for reasons that transcended basketball, and that's unlikely to have

1928
01:28:13,279 --> 01:28:16,319
changed in his age forty season with his son on

1929
01:28:16,399 --> 01:28:19,119
the team, And so I'm not saying he shouldn't be available,

1930
01:28:19,479 --> 01:28:24,119
but I would question, aside from Golden State, what is

1931
01:28:24,159 --> 01:28:25,960
the team that is giving up a But like I

1932
01:28:25,960 --> 01:28:28,039
could talk about teams that like he might be an

1933
01:28:28,039 --> 01:28:31,600
interesting fit on, but would they realistically give you I

1934
01:28:31,640 --> 01:28:33,479
would say two first round picks are more like if

1935
01:28:33,520 --> 01:28:35,680
you're not trading Lebron just for a first round picks

1936
01:28:35,720 --> 01:28:37,439
unless you're doing him a solid. And if you are,

1937
01:28:37,840 --> 01:28:39,880
guess where he's going probably the Warriors.

1938
01:28:40,119 --> 01:28:43,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just I can't I'm trying anything else would

1939
01:28:43,960 --> 01:28:48,199
be like such a stretch like where it has to

1940
01:28:48,319 --> 01:28:50,359
like you would normally say you would normally just throw

1941
01:28:50,399 --> 01:28:52,520
a team like Miami out there, but like that's he's

1942
01:28:52,560 --> 01:28:55,399
not going back, that's not gonna happen, not going back

1943
01:28:55,399 --> 01:28:57,680
to Cleveland, So like we can rule all the typical

1944
01:28:57,960 --> 01:29:01,319
Lebron destinations out. I just don't. I just have no

1945
01:29:01,439 --> 01:29:06,359
idea where he would even consider, Like, I mean, he's

1946
01:29:06,359 --> 01:29:08,039
not totally in control Houston.

1947
01:29:07,960 --> 01:29:09,720
Speaker 1: They want him instead of Fred van Vliet, and then

1948
01:29:09,760 --> 01:29:11,199
they're giving up picks basically.

1949
01:29:11,520 --> 01:29:15,039
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, I just think I think you're right

1950
01:29:15,159 --> 01:29:20,680
that at some point, winning a championship is probably I mean,

1951
01:29:20,720 --> 01:29:22,920
it's you can't say it's not the most important thing,

1952
01:29:22,920 --> 01:29:25,399
but it's not the only thing anymore, Like because if

1953
01:29:25,399 --> 01:29:27,439
it were that were the case. I just don't think

1954
01:29:27,479 --> 01:29:29,079
he'd still be with the Lakers, you know.

1955
01:29:29,199 --> 01:29:31,159
Speaker 1: And it's just tough because I feel like he's able

1956
01:29:31,199 --> 01:29:34,199
because his contract situation, the fact that he's Lebron, he's

1957
01:29:34,199 --> 01:29:36,199
going to dictate where he goes more than and I

1958
01:29:36,279 --> 01:29:39,079
just don't see him. If he made a list right now,

1959
01:29:39,119 --> 01:29:42,039
it probably consists only of Golden State, right, would san

1960
01:29:42,039 --> 01:29:43,680
Antonio maybe be on there?

1961
01:29:43,880 --> 01:29:48,119
Speaker 2: Oh that's interesting? Yeah, I mean well the list would

1962
01:29:48,359 --> 01:29:50,439
the list would have Golden State and then like a

1963
01:29:50,600 --> 01:29:55,079
giant tier of like seventeen other teams. I guess, but

1964
01:29:55,119 --> 01:29:56,279
san Antonio would be one.

1965
01:29:56,760 --> 01:30:01,119
Speaker 1: I think that's giving up as the Warriors for Lebron.

1966
01:30:01,720 --> 01:30:04,840
Speaker 2: I mean, the thing is that's funny, is like Draymond

1967
01:30:04,920 --> 01:30:06,960
is someone I'd feel a lot better about giving up

1968
01:30:07,239 --> 01:30:10,199
for Lebron. But like that's never they would never include

1969
01:30:10,279 --> 01:30:10,760
him all.

1970
01:30:11,960 --> 01:30:13,439
Speaker 1: You know that's gonna be If you were to give

1971
01:30:13,520 --> 01:30:16,079
Wiggans and Draymond for Lebron, your defense is done.

1972
01:30:16,239 --> 01:30:17,479
Speaker 2: Yeah. I don't think you do that.

1973
01:30:18,000 --> 01:30:21,760
Speaker 1: I just but you'd rather give up Draymond for Lebron

1974
01:30:21,760 --> 01:30:23,000
than Wiggins, is what you're saying.

1975
01:30:23,680 --> 01:30:28,640
Speaker 2: I well, that's a great. My first reaction is yes,

1976
01:30:28,760 --> 01:30:31,600
because you could just use Lebron for all the small

1977
01:30:31,640 --> 01:30:34,840
ball center stuff that you do with Draymond, and like

1978
01:30:34,880 --> 01:30:36,960
the defense would be the defense would just suffer, no

1979
01:30:37,000 --> 01:30:40,279
matter what I think. And a deal. That's the thing

1980
01:30:40,319 --> 01:30:42,119
with any Warriors trade is you sort of have to

1981
01:30:42,119 --> 01:30:44,399
give up one of those two guys, like just to

1982
01:30:44,479 --> 01:30:47,319
do any for someone making it, Yeah, for sure, to

1983
01:30:47,359 --> 01:30:49,439
do anything of consequence, one of them's got to go,

1984
01:30:49,520 --> 01:30:52,039
and it's just always gonna be Wiggins. I think. Unfortunately,

1985
01:30:52,039 --> 01:30:53,319
I don't know if that's the right decision.

1986
01:30:53,720 --> 01:30:57,399
Speaker 1: And so knowing that though, and the other salary math

1987
01:30:57,399 --> 01:31:00,760
involved when you're looking at it in terms of COMINGA, Pods, picks,

1988
01:31:00,920 --> 01:31:02,640
like the number of those things that you would give

1989
01:31:02,680 --> 01:31:05,960
up for Lebron as the Warriors, what is the number two?

1990
01:31:06,239 --> 01:31:06,960
More less?

1991
01:31:07,279 --> 01:31:09,840
Speaker 2: I mean you could have This is the wrong time

1992
01:31:09,840 --> 01:31:13,600
to ask me about I think trade everybody, all of

1993
01:31:13,640 --> 01:31:17,479
them coming in pods, just trade him for expirings or something.

1994
01:31:17,800 --> 01:31:21,439
Speaker 1: I think I'll ask you this, then, would you prefer

1995
01:31:21,520 --> 01:31:29,000
to give up two first rounders or Jonathan Camena end pods.

1996
01:31:28,359 --> 01:31:31,600
Speaker 2: Probably COMINGA and Pods. I think we've.

1997
01:31:31,439 --> 01:31:33,159
Speaker 1: Fallen along along.

1998
01:31:33,239 --> 01:31:36,039
Speaker 2: I mean the Pods two different the Kaminga thing is

1999
01:31:36,079 --> 01:31:39,760
just like I think, I think he's probably gone. Like

2000
01:31:39,800 --> 01:31:41,520
I just I think if you don't trade him, I

2001
01:31:41,560 --> 01:31:43,199
think you're just gonna lose him. And you can do

2002
01:31:43,239 --> 01:31:45,039
the sign and trade, I guess, or you know you can't.

2003
01:31:45,039 --> 01:31:49,279
You have to match but and pods. Just like, I

2004
01:31:49,279 --> 01:31:50,520
don't know if that guy is going to have a

2005
01:31:50,520 --> 01:31:54,680
career at this point. It looks so bad lately, somewhere

2006
01:31:54,720 --> 01:31:56,359
in between what we thought he was last year and

2007
01:31:56,359 --> 01:31:58,640
what he is this year. But uh, the floor and

2008
01:31:58,680 --> 01:32:01,319
ceiling are looking very very far apart right now.

2009
01:32:01,600 --> 01:32:05,279
Speaker 1: Our next guy on the board is Herb Jones of

2010
01:32:05,279 --> 01:32:08,159
the New Orleans Pelicans, who has technically been in the

2011
01:32:08,239 --> 01:32:12,000
rumor mill because other teams are lusting after him. I

2012
01:32:12,119 --> 01:32:15,640
do think, though, if we're gonna have the Kobe White

2013
01:32:16,039 --> 01:32:20,520
discussion about, well, why wouldn't Chicago move him when he's

2014
01:32:20,560 --> 01:32:23,560
not going to extend off this deal, which maybe you

2015
01:32:23,640 --> 01:32:27,479
feel differently about Herb Jones because it runs a little

2016
01:32:27,520 --> 01:32:29,479
longer and you're able to get him on this deal

2017
01:32:29,880 --> 01:32:31,880
in the first place. But like Herb Jones isn't an

2018
01:32:31,920 --> 01:32:34,800
extending off of a fourteen point nine million dollars salary.

2019
01:32:34,800 --> 01:32:36,960
Grant is he or do you think that he would?

2020
01:32:37,039 --> 01:32:38,439
Because I do feel like if we're going to talk

2021
01:32:38,479 --> 01:32:39,800
about I know he has a little bit his two

2022
01:32:39,840 --> 01:32:42,399
years left on his deal after this one, are we

2023
01:32:42,399 --> 01:32:44,479
we're just sure that the New Orleans Pelicans are gonna

2024
01:32:44,479 --> 01:32:46,640
be good enough to pay herb Jones twenty plus million

2025
01:32:46,680 --> 01:32:49,000
dollars a year in two seasons.

2026
01:32:50,399 --> 01:32:52,079
Speaker 2: I mean, I think something will have had to go

2027
01:32:52,199 --> 01:32:55,760
wrong if he is extending off of this number, probably,

2028
01:32:55,920 --> 01:32:59,640
like because it just it's just such a good deal

2029
01:32:59,720 --> 01:33:02,560
right now, and like I'm trying to look at reasons.

2030
01:33:02,600 --> 01:33:04,600
I mean, he hasn't shot it at all, and he's

2031
01:33:04,600 --> 01:33:09,159
missed a ton of time this year. Maybe I'm trying

2032
01:33:09,199 --> 01:33:11,119
to think if basically I'm trying to pin down, like

2033
01:33:11,319 --> 01:33:14,199
is his market value going to be higher if they waste.

2034
01:33:13,880 --> 01:33:17,199
Speaker 1: His starting salary and an extent like off that number

2035
01:33:17,199 --> 01:33:19,680
in the final year would be twenty point nine million dollars.

2036
01:33:20,840 --> 01:33:22,920
That's like kind of on the borderline, right Yeah, if he.

2037
01:33:22,880 --> 01:33:25,199
Speaker 2: Plays like this like this year. But I just don't

2038
01:33:25,199 --> 01:33:27,279
know how to put any stock in anything that's happened

2039
01:33:27,319 --> 01:33:29,920
in New Orleans this season, So like I'm more inclined

2040
01:33:29,960 --> 01:33:33,159
to believe that he's last year herb Jones where that's

2041
01:33:33,159 --> 01:33:35,640
probably even he shot over forty percent. He was fifth

2042
01:33:35,680 --> 01:33:37,880
in DEFENSI Player of the Year. He's somewhere in between

2043
01:33:37,880 --> 01:33:39,279
there too. He's like like pods.

2044
01:33:41,039 --> 01:33:44,880
Speaker 1: I I think you're looking at it from this. He's

2045
01:33:44,920 --> 01:33:47,000
in his age twenty six season, so he's not like

2046
01:33:47,119 --> 01:33:47,800
super young.

2047
01:33:48,119 --> 01:33:48,359
Speaker 2: Right.

2048
01:33:48,920 --> 01:33:52,960
Speaker 1: If New Orleans is going the nuclear route of starting.

2049
01:33:52,640 --> 01:33:55,279
Speaker 2: Over, then yeah, then you're trade.

2050
01:33:55,479 --> 01:33:57,720
Speaker 1: So I guess my question to you would then be

2051
01:33:58,359 --> 01:34:01,800
Zion Williamson is available. Doesn't that then count? And herb

2052
01:34:01,880 --> 01:34:04,880
Jones is being mentioned alongside eaves me the oungside. I

2053
01:34:04,920 --> 01:34:06,560
don't mean to laugh. He's been good, but it's just

2054
01:34:06,600 --> 01:34:08,840
funny to see him looped in there. But me C

2055
01:34:09,039 --> 01:34:11,039
and Trey Murphy is I get Murphy. He was just

2056
01:34:11,079 --> 01:34:14,439
extended to the poison pill and he's still he's actually

2057
01:34:14,479 --> 01:34:15,600
he's not that much younger there.

2058
01:34:15,640 --> 01:34:17,399
Speaker 2: No, he's like he was an older rookie, but he's

2059
01:34:18,319 --> 01:34:20,359
You don't change your mind on herb Jones this quickly

2060
01:34:20,359 --> 01:34:22,720
after an extension, when he's looked good enough in flashes,

2061
01:34:22,760 --> 01:34:23,560
when he's been healthy.

2062
01:34:24,680 --> 01:34:26,199
Speaker 1: So is that what you're saying is that that's why

2063
01:34:26,239 --> 01:34:26,840
you keep him.

2064
01:34:27,479 --> 01:34:30,079
Speaker 2: Why I keep Herb? Yeah, I think I think you

2065
01:34:30,159 --> 01:34:33,640
know you're I mean, you're getting me on board for

2066
01:34:33,680 --> 01:34:36,960
Herb is if if you're blowing it up, then yeah,

2067
01:34:37,000 --> 01:34:40,680
because you could get that contract. You The breadth of

2068
01:34:40,720 --> 01:34:43,079
teams you could trade him to is is wide, like

2069
01:34:43,119 --> 01:34:45,359
and you could so you can get the pick equity

2070
01:34:45,399 --> 01:34:47,279
you're gonna want if you're if you're tearing this thing

2071
01:34:47,319 --> 01:34:49,840
all the way down or young players or whatever, like

2072
01:34:49,880 --> 01:34:51,680
if you what do you what could you get from

2073
01:34:51,920 --> 01:34:54,359
from Indiana? If you sent like, do you think you.

2074
01:34:54,359 --> 01:34:56,279
Speaker 1: Get one of the youngsters and then two first round

2075
01:34:56,279 --> 01:34:57,079
picks or Herb Jones.

2076
01:34:57,079 --> 01:34:58,800
Speaker 2: I think you're getting at least one of those guys

2077
01:34:58,840 --> 01:35:02,119
and and at least one first Like I just think that.

2078
01:35:02,359 --> 01:35:05,359
So and that's not even you know, for any team

2079
01:35:05,359 --> 01:35:07,960
that's thinking about Dorian Finney Smith, any team that's thinking

2080
01:35:07,960 --> 01:35:10,319
about camp like Cam Johnson's a different player, but any

2081
01:35:10,319 --> 01:35:13,039
team is that's in the we've got, you know, a

2082
01:35:13,039 --> 01:35:15,279
couple guys in the ten million to twenty million dollar

2083
01:35:15,399 --> 01:35:17,640
range we can trade with a pick or whatever else,

2084
01:35:17,680 --> 01:35:20,479
Like you're in the Herb Jones business. And so that

2085
01:35:20,560 --> 01:35:23,199
might be the argument for moving him. If you think

2086
01:35:23,279 --> 01:35:25,039
as New Orleans that you're going to try to be

2087
01:35:25,119 --> 01:35:27,760
competitive at all, like over the next couple of years,

2088
01:35:28,039 --> 01:35:30,159
then I don't think you do trade him, because that's

2089
01:35:30,239 --> 01:35:33,159
exactly the kind of piece that enables you to have

2090
01:35:33,199 --> 01:35:36,680
a bad contractor to or to overspend somewhere else or whatever.

2091
01:35:36,760 --> 01:35:39,479
Because what even if, even if he's going to be

2092
01:35:39,880 --> 01:35:42,199
closer to like his second year or even as his

2093
01:35:42,279 --> 01:35:46,000
rookie year production, like, I think he's still just a

2094
01:35:46,039 --> 01:35:48,600
bargain making what he's making. So if you're trying to

2095
01:35:48,640 --> 01:35:50,239
win it all, you don't trade him. But if you're

2096
01:35:50,319 --> 01:35:51,760
blowing it up, then move him.

2097
01:35:51,800 --> 01:35:54,399
Speaker 1: Yeah, I just I would be curious what division is

2098
01:35:54,439 --> 01:35:55,720
if Zion is available.

2099
01:35:56,600 --> 01:35:58,800
Speaker 2: Well, I think he's just different because of the risk

2100
01:35:58,880 --> 01:35:59,680
stuff that's priced.

2101
01:36:00,079 --> 01:36:02,039
Speaker 1: I understand that then, But okay, so let's just say

2102
01:36:02,079 --> 01:36:04,239
if you're not factoring in Zion, you're just saying, well,

2103
01:36:04,279 --> 01:36:06,359
our plan, even though we couldn't figure out how to

2104
01:36:06,359 --> 01:36:08,760
compete with more of a veteran roster, we're gonna get

2105
01:36:08,800 --> 01:36:11,239
our top four, top five pick or whatever, and then

2106
01:36:11,239 --> 01:36:13,960
we're gonna be competitive to the point where it'll be

2107
01:36:14,039 --> 01:36:16,319
on while Herb Jones is still on this good deal

2108
01:36:16,439 --> 01:36:18,840
I just this isn't I think Herb Jones is fantastic

2109
01:36:19,039 --> 01:36:21,840
and you could absolutely get two first round picks for him,

2110
01:36:21,880 --> 01:36:24,319
like too good, I'm not moving him for number twenty

2111
01:36:24,359 --> 01:36:26,119
eight and then a good like it's too good first

2112
01:36:26,159 --> 01:36:28,960
round picks or some equivalent at least. I just like,

2113
01:36:29,000 --> 01:36:31,800
what is New Orleans doing? They look and it's more

2114
01:36:31,840 --> 01:36:35,720
so than the injuries for me, they look fundamentally intrinsically broken.

2115
01:36:36,079 --> 01:36:38,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a mess, like across the board. I mean,

2116
01:36:38,359 --> 01:36:41,239
like it just it's a lost season. I'm all I

2117
01:36:41,239 --> 01:36:44,399
think I think we need to be careful judging like

2118
01:36:44,560 --> 01:36:46,720
this is just this every it's like a Memphis last

2119
01:36:46,760 --> 01:36:49,079
year's season. It's like, what do we even take from

2120
01:36:49,119 --> 01:36:50,920
any of this? Like, I just I don't know. I

2121
01:36:50,920 --> 01:36:52,199
don't want to make like a long.

2122
01:36:52,199 --> 01:36:54,600
Speaker 1: Tougher with New Orleans because this feels like a more

2123
01:36:54,680 --> 01:36:56,880
dramatic version of more of the same.

2124
01:36:57,439 --> 01:36:59,840
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I mean it was the I don't know,

2125
01:37:00,039 --> 01:37:01,600
can go back to when we used to just ask

2126
01:37:01,680 --> 01:37:04,479
if our Ingram and Zion a good fit and was

2127
01:37:04,520 --> 01:37:07,239
always just like, no, we don't think so. They haven't

2128
01:37:07,239 --> 01:37:10,039
played together, but probably not, and so maybe that was

2129
01:37:10,079 --> 01:37:12,000
the problem is deep down. We all knew that this

2130
01:37:12,119 --> 01:37:13,319
just wasn't a good enough core.

2131
01:37:14,680 --> 01:37:18,079
Speaker 1: I'm not expecting to be traded. I think he it's

2132
01:37:18,119 --> 01:37:21,439
tough because he does have like the extra time on

2133
01:37:21,520 --> 01:37:23,560
his deal, So if you're in New Orleans, I think

2134
01:37:23,920 --> 01:37:25,960
by waiting and if you were to move him over

2135
01:37:25,960 --> 01:37:28,760
the offseason, you would probably get around the same because

2136
01:37:28,800 --> 01:37:30,840
he has two full years left on his contract rather

2137
01:37:30,920 --> 01:37:33,760
than one. But you also do risk if you hold

2138
01:37:33,800 --> 01:37:35,720
on him much longer and you're not gonna be competitive, Like,

2139
01:37:35,760 --> 01:37:38,920
does this turn into an ognnob situation where I think

2140
01:37:38,920 --> 01:37:41,600
the package so far well, I mean Arjie Barrat's been good,

2141
01:37:41,600 --> 01:37:43,680
but quickly he's on this mega deal and has been

2142
01:37:43,680 --> 01:37:47,319
injured a bunch this year, you do risk bag hold

2143
01:37:47,439 --> 01:37:49,520
like if again you just said it, if you're not

2144
01:37:49,600 --> 01:37:52,319
planning on, like really going for a top six spot

2145
01:37:52,359 --> 01:37:55,000
in the West next year, then this guy should be.

2146
01:37:55,039 --> 01:37:57,960
Speaker 2: Moved probably right, And I think I do think because

2147
01:37:58,000 --> 01:38:01,159
the White situation, as you said, is an alloys if

2148
01:38:01,199 --> 01:38:05,800
you wait until the twenty twenty six trade deadline and

2149
01:38:05,840 --> 01:38:07,880
trade him, then that would be the equivalent of the

2150
01:38:07,880 --> 01:38:10,800
Bulls trading White at last year's deadline. Right when we

2151
01:38:10,880 --> 01:38:12,880
agreed that do I have it off by a year

2152
01:38:13,239 --> 01:38:13,600
either way?

2153
01:38:13,800 --> 01:38:16,039
Speaker 1: Oh g the equivalent of them trading Kobe White at

2154
01:38:16,039 --> 01:38:17,159
this year's deadline.

2155
01:38:16,880 --> 01:38:19,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, which which we just said they should. So I

2156
01:38:19,680 --> 01:38:22,800
guess by that logic, when we thought that maybe the

2157
01:38:22,920 --> 01:38:25,960
year to trade Kobe White was last year, maybe maybe

2158
01:38:25,960 --> 01:38:28,000
the time to move on Herb is now that by

2159
01:38:28,039 --> 01:38:30,479
that logic, if you think his value will be diminished,

2160
01:38:30,520 --> 01:38:32,960
But if you're we don't know that, they're not going

2161
01:38:33,039 --> 01:38:36,840
to try to win with him. Trade de Jontay Murray

2162
01:38:36,880 --> 01:38:41,079
and Cooper Flag Yeah, whoever else.

2163
01:38:41,079 --> 01:38:42,039
Speaker 1: Next on the board.

2164
01:38:42,399 --> 01:38:46,159
Speaker 2: This, this is Josh Hart Dan And so part of

2165
01:38:46,199 --> 01:38:50,520
this is like a process of elimination situation where if

2166
01:38:50,520 --> 01:38:53,800
you're trying to make trades involving the Knicks and you

2167
01:38:53,840 --> 01:38:56,920
don't think anybody really wants Mitchell Robinson and you're not

2168
01:38:56,960 --> 01:39:00,720
willing to trade any of your other four best players,

2169
01:39:01,600 --> 01:39:02,640
this is where you gotta go.

2170
01:39:02,880 --> 01:39:03,359
Speaker 1: Is I mean?

2171
01:39:03,479 --> 01:39:06,720
Speaker 2: Is that how much of including Josh Hart here is

2172
01:39:06,880 --> 01:39:10,000
just like you can't trade Brunson or cat or og

2173
01:39:10,359 --> 01:39:12,840
or mchal Bridges. So this is just who there is.

2174
01:39:13,359 --> 01:39:16,399
Speaker 1: Because aren't they in a weird spot to where I

2175
01:39:16,399 --> 01:39:18,359
don't Josh Hart's been good this. I mean, they're better

2176
01:39:18,399 --> 01:39:20,279
at both ends of the floor when he's off the court,

2177
01:39:20,319 --> 01:39:21,520
But I think there's a lot of noise in there

2178
01:39:21,520 --> 01:39:25,359
when you look at the lineups. He's spearheaded or been inside.

2179
01:39:25,960 --> 01:39:28,640
But aren't they in this weird thing where you could, like,

2180
01:39:28,680 --> 01:39:31,000
do you feel good enough about their core five to say, like,

2181
01:39:31,159 --> 01:39:34,079
going up against any opponent, there's no way like they

2182
01:39:34,079 --> 01:39:36,119
could beat the Celtics. They could beat the Calves in

2183
01:39:36,199 --> 01:39:39,000
crunch time and on any given night, sure, but over

2184
01:39:39,039 --> 01:39:41,359
the course of a playoff series, they feel like they

2185
01:39:41,399 --> 01:39:44,880
need a significant upgrade where you're not just getting a

2186
01:39:44,920 --> 01:39:48,600
backup center or a backup wing and declaring this team

2187
01:39:49,319 --> 01:39:52,399
a bona fide championship contender. It's almost like you need

2188
01:39:52,920 --> 01:39:54,880
someone because of the way you've built your team, where

2189
01:39:54,960 --> 01:39:58,560
Kat and Jalen Brunton are like the tip of your

2190
01:39:58,600 --> 01:40:01,840
spear on the offensive end, that do you need someone

2191
01:40:01,840 --> 01:40:04,920
who's better to actualize the vision that you want? You

2192
01:40:04,960 --> 01:40:08,479
need someone who's even better or more versatile defensively then

2193
01:40:09,000 --> 01:40:11,279
Josh Hart in that closing group, And the only way

2194
01:40:11,319 --> 01:40:13,960
to get that player would be to trade Josh Hart.

2195
01:40:14,000 --> 01:40:18,399
Speaker 2: At the moment, while I was gonna ask, like specifically,

2196
01:40:18,439 --> 01:40:20,359
what type of player do you want back? If you're

2197
01:40:20,359 --> 01:40:22,239
trading Josh Harden, it sounds like in a lot of

2198
01:40:22,239 --> 01:40:28,520
ways you Well, I was thinking like Heart's shooting just

2199
01:40:28,600 --> 01:40:31,199
under forty percent from deep. He's been all over the

2200
01:40:31,199 --> 01:40:33,560
map and the volume has never been high, but he

2201
01:40:33,640 --> 01:40:35,800
does feel like the guy defenses will leave. I know

2202
01:40:35,840 --> 01:40:37,560
that's not what you're asking, but it's part of the

2203
01:40:37,600 --> 01:40:40,600
same question is just like, who do you need as

2204
01:40:40,640 --> 01:40:43,760
the fifth guy that is going to be is going

2205
01:40:43,840 --> 01:40:47,239
to present defenses with more problems and is going to

2206
01:40:47,279 --> 01:40:51,399
be a bigger defensive value add in a playoff setting

2207
01:40:51,439 --> 01:40:54,000
than Heart. And it's just like a better Heart, right,

2208
01:40:54,039 --> 01:40:55,960
because you're not asking for like an on ball star.

2209
01:40:56,399 --> 01:40:58,960
You're not asking for like defensively if there's like sort

2210
01:40:58,960 --> 01:41:00,520
of no limit to how good you want the guy

2211
01:41:00,560 --> 01:41:05,720
to be. But like, I'm curious, so this hypothetical player

2212
01:41:06,119 --> 01:41:09,319
from this hypothetical team is just like, why are they

2213
01:41:09,359 --> 01:41:11,680
trading a better Josh Hart for Josh Hart?

2214
01:41:11,800 --> 01:41:16,039
Speaker 1: Unless you well, because you're attaching stuff to Josh Hart.

2215
01:41:16,119 --> 01:41:18,359
Speaker 2: Question is can the nick sweeten it enough to make

2216
01:41:19,000 --> 01:41:23,680
like we're giving you a B a B B minus

2217
01:41:23,800 --> 01:41:25,880
level of a similar guy. You're gonna give us the

2218
01:41:25,920 --> 01:41:28,000
A minus guy. Do we have enough to make up

2219
01:41:28,000 --> 01:41:29,439
that gap as sweeteners?

2220
01:41:29,560 --> 01:41:31,680
Speaker 1: Well that, or could you do something where it's then

2221
01:41:31,800 --> 01:41:36,960
really commit to, like go capslock five out to where Okay,

2222
01:41:37,960 --> 01:41:40,159
let's just say they're consigned to having a gap year

2223
01:41:40,199 --> 01:41:44,159
for whatever reason. Are is Denver because they're trying to

2224
01:41:44,159 --> 01:41:47,279
expand their rotation long term, considering Michael Porter Junior for

2225
01:41:47,720 --> 01:41:51,560
Josh Hart Mitchell Robinson that Washington pick. And by the way,

2226
01:41:51,840 --> 01:41:53,560
I openly land, I don't think the Nick should trade

2227
01:41:53,600 --> 01:41:55,720
Josh Hart's I don't know how you upgrade from him. Yeah,

2228
01:41:55,720 --> 01:41:57,720
but I am skeptical of the idea. And this doesn't

2229
01:41:57,720 --> 01:42:00,800
have anything to do with Josh Hart. That moving Mitchell

2230
01:42:00,880 --> 01:42:03,840
Robinson moving pressures at you is going to get you

2231
01:42:03,960 --> 01:42:08,600
somebody that meaningfully moves your championship needle. You're more so

2232
01:42:08,760 --> 01:42:11,600
just looking at well, our regular season rotation will be

2233
01:42:11,600 --> 01:42:14,079
at least a tad deeper. And I'm not saying that

2234
01:42:14,119 --> 01:42:16,279
doesn't matter. I don't know how much it matters when

2235
01:42:16,319 --> 01:42:17,479
top Thibodau is your head coach.

2236
01:42:17,720 --> 01:42:20,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's it's so interesting. I think we're

2237
01:42:20,640 --> 01:42:22,800
kind of getting back to what my first reaction was,

2238
01:42:22,800 --> 01:42:28,359
which is like, you aren't gonna trade numbers one through

2239
01:42:28,359 --> 01:42:31,439
four on the ORG chart, like and if you're gonna

2240
01:42:31,479 --> 01:42:33,680
do anything, and Mitchell Robinson isn't enough. So it is

2241
01:42:33,720 --> 01:42:36,960
sort of like Josh Hart is here because it's like

2242
01:42:37,039 --> 01:42:40,640
he's the piece you could talk yourself into being like

2243
01:42:41,560 --> 01:42:44,399
not fungibles too strong a word, like expendable even that

2244
01:42:44,399 --> 01:42:47,000
that's even a stronger word, but like it's just yeah,

2245
01:42:47,199 --> 01:42:50,239
like you cause you I just don't know. I guess,

2246
01:42:50,279 --> 01:42:53,000
I guess if you could get MPJ. But the Denver

2247
01:42:53,039 --> 01:42:55,000
side of that is like, no, thanks, I don't I

2248
01:42:55,039 --> 01:42:57,760
would assume that that is the type like just the

2249
01:42:57,840 --> 01:43:00,319
dead eye, Like you, if you leave this guy, you've

2250
01:43:00,359 --> 01:43:04,960
blown it defensively schematically, and he's got good size and

2251
01:43:05,000 --> 01:43:07,520
it's just gonna be someone that makes the Knicks offense

2252
01:43:07,520 --> 01:43:10,560
impossible to defend. I think like that kind of you

2253
01:43:10,600 --> 01:43:12,840
need a premium skill. How about that, Like you need

2254
01:43:12,840 --> 01:43:15,880
someone with the premium skill to offset all the like

2255
01:43:16,640 --> 01:43:19,439
all the varied contributions Josh Hart does give you.

2256
01:43:20,640 --> 01:43:22,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't think it's just there. That's a tough spot.

2257
01:43:22,960 --> 01:43:25,960
But would you agree that like they're sort of they

2258
01:43:26,000 --> 01:43:29,399
probably can't get a lot better, and they feel like

2259
01:43:29,479 --> 01:43:31,520
if you're gonna want to loop them in, I know

2260
01:43:31,680 --> 01:43:33,800
where they rank in terms of net rating. I know

2261
01:43:33,840 --> 01:43:35,880
what their record is relative to the rest of the East.

2262
01:43:36,279 --> 01:43:36,439
Speaker 2: Uh.

2263
01:43:36,439 --> 01:43:38,239
Speaker 1: They actually have one of the best point differentials in

2264
01:43:38,239 --> 01:43:41,399
the league against top ten point differential teams. Yeah, but

2265
01:43:41,479 --> 01:43:43,560
I just can't put them on the level of Boston,

2266
01:43:43,680 --> 01:43:46,840
Cleveland or Okay. See, it feels like there's something or

2267
01:43:46,880 --> 01:43:50,600
someone significant preventing them from being on that level. And

2268
01:43:50,640 --> 01:43:54,239
I'm viewing this in terms of winning a playoff series,

2269
01:43:54,279 --> 01:43:55,680
not just their regular season run.

2270
01:43:55,880 --> 01:43:59,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's fair. I think I think I'm trying to

2271
01:43:59,680 --> 01:44:01,800
like play devil's advocate. But you're right, like you just

2272
01:44:01,920 --> 01:44:05,079
they're not as good as those teams you mentioned. But

2273
01:44:05,119 --> 01:44:06,840
that's a small group and it might just be the

2274
01:44:06,880 --> 01:44:09,720
case that, like you can't get that good. It's very

2275
01:44:09,720 --> 01:44:12,399
hard to get that good. So trading jo I The

2276
01:44:12,479 --> 01:44:16,359
last thing is like we've seen a lot of trades

2277
01:44:16,439 --> 01:44:21,640
that so just thinking of of like DeRozan in Sacramento. Uh,

2278
01:44:22,039 --> 01:44:23,840
well maybe, and I don't know some of the some

2279
01:44:23,880 --> 01:44:26,199
of the stuff that's happened in Minnesota where it's like

2280
01:44:26,399 --> 01:44:31,000
just adding a more talented player does not always like

2281
01:44:31,199 --> 01:44:34,000
improve the bottom line and heart does all of this

2282
01:44:34,319 --> 01:44:37,039
all of the other stuff that like, whoever you get

2283
01:44:37,079 --> 01:44:40,359
to replace Josh Hart might be a better shooter, might

2284
01:44:40,399 --> 01:44:42,800
be a better distributor, but is not going to give

2285
01:44:42,840 --> 01:44:45,720
you the transition stuff, the rebounding, the all the hustle,

2286
01:44:45,800 --> 01:44:49,000
all the on the margin stuff. So for a team

2287
01:44:49,199 --> 01:44:53,720
like the Knicks, I wonder if you know, he feels

2288
01:44:53,800 --> 01:44:56,000
like the weak link quote unquote or like the guy

2289
01:44:56,079 --> 01:44:57,840
you could move. But I wonder if you would just

2290
01:44:57,880 --> 01:45:00,279
not be able to make back all the marginals stuff

2291
01:45:00,279 --> 01:45:03,039
that he does that good teams need to, Like, I

2292
01:45:03,039 --> 01:45:04,960
think maybe what you need is to keep Josh Hart

2293
01:45:05,000 --> 01:45:07,439
and just happen to have another giant salary to trade.

2294
01:45:07,479 --> 01:45:09,680
So Josh Hart comes off the bench and just is

2295
01:45:09,720 --> 01:45:10,800
like perfect.

2296
01:45:10,239 --> 01:45:12,800
Speaker 1: In theory, It's just do they have enough to do?

2297
01:45:12,880 --> 01:45:15,399
That would be because Mitchel Robinson plush pressures at you

2298
01:45:15,439 --> 01:45:18,439
and get you to like twenty million dollars. Let's say,

2299
01:45:18,760 --> 01:45:21,800
and you have pocom Datier you could trade that Washington First,

2300
01:45:22,239 --> 01:45:24,479
is that like enough to get that type of a player,

2301
01:45:24,520 --> 01:45:28,760
And then maybe I just don't need like or not

2302
01:45:28,840 --> 01:45:31,079
even a better player than Josh Hart, but an upgrade

2303
01:45:31,119 --> 01:45:32,920
for the starting lineup. I'm not even saying a more

2304
01:45:33,000 --> 01:45:35,439
variable option where it will sometimes we'll start Josh Hart.

2305
01:45:35,439 --> 01:45:37,640
Sometimes we'll put a big next to Towns. If you're

2306
01:45:37,640 --> 01:45:39,960
going to go that route, you just keep Mitchell Robinson

2307
01:45:40,000 --> 01:45:41,279
and hope he gets healthy, because I don't know who

2308
01:45:41,279 --> 01:45:44,760
you're necessarily getting for him that would be EON's better.

2309
01:45:45,159 --> 01:45:46,640
It's just a tough spot. I don't think they should

2310
01:45:46,640 --> 01:45:48,439
trade him either, but it's what you said, the process

2311
01:45:48,439 --> 01:45:50,920
of Look, the power of friendship prevails again. The Knick

2312
01:45:50,920 --> 01:45:54,840
should not trade Josh Hart. Two names here, Grant Isaiah Wiggins,

2313
01:45:55,159 --> 01:45:57,000
I mean Aaron Wiggins.

2314
01:45:57,039 --> 01:45:57,800
Speaker 2: That'd be a good player.

2315
01:45:57,880 --> 01:46:01,079
Speaker 1: They go. They're neither of whom or trade eligible, by

2316
01:46:01,119 --> 01:46:04,439
the way, until January fifteenth, for anyone listening, They're basically

2317
01:46:04,600 --> 01:46:08,359
just in here because Oklahoma City is so deep. It

2318
01:46:08,439 --> 01:46:11,760
does feel like even their win against the Pacers, it

2319
01:46:11,800 --> 01:46:14,600
was their offense felt too dependent at times on Shay

2320
01:46:14,640 --> 01:46:17,520
Gilgess Alexander. I felt that way a bunch of times

2321
01:46:17,520 --> 01:46:19,439
this season, and I don't know how much of it

2322
01:46:19,520 --> 01:46:22,199
has to do with well, we just haven't seen their

2323
01:46:22,239 --> 01:46:25,640
full group together, like having Hartenstein Enholm Grin and Jalen

2324
01:46:25,680 --> 01:46:28,479
Williams along with Shay and the other stuff is just

2325
01:46:29,880 --> 01:46:32,800
Aaron Wiggins is playing fewer minutes like of late, and

2326
01:46:32,840 --> 01:46:34,640
so it's if he's gonna average under fifteen minutes a

2327
01:46:34,640 --> 01:46:36,680
game or something. He's on this great deal. He's a

2328
01:46:36,680 --> 01:46:39,880
really good player. Should you be looking to consolidate as

2329
01:46:39,920 --> 01:46:43,079
okayce or is it just if we don't think, like

2330
01:46:43,119 --> 01:46:45,800
what are you consolidating into? And so like, are we're

2331
01:46:45,800 --> 01:46:47,800
not gonna go make this home run trade, especially when

2332
01:46:47,840 --> 01:46:50,039
we don't know what the deal is with Jet Holmgren,

2333
01:46:50,119 --> 01:46:51,840
So we're just gonna keep these guys who will still

2334
01:46:51,840 --> 01:46:55,079
have trade value. They're just there's no such thing as

2335
01:46:55,119 --> 01:46:57,600
being too deep. But they have so many good players

2336
01:46:57,600 --> 01:47:00,359
that it's I look at Aaron Wiggins specifically, someone who

2337
01:47:00,439 --> 01:47:02,359
I think should have a much larger role than he

2338
01:47:02,359 --> 01:47:03,039
does right now.

2339
01:47:03,319 --> 01:47:06,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think like this gets into sort of like

2340
01:47:07,039 --> 01:47:11,399
some fundamental I don't know, philosophical things to talk about

2341
01:47:11,439 --> 01:47:15,479
with roster building, because like, both these guys are very

2342
01:47:15,520 --> 01:47:18,840
good rotation players. You could make the case that either

2343
01:47:18,880 --> 01:47:21,479
of them could be a starter somewhere on several teams,

2344
01:47:21,880 --> 01:47:24,680
and their contracts are great but like, if you're a

2345
01:47:24,720 --> 01:47:27,159
team at the Thunders level, how many of that type

2346
01:47:27,199 --> 01:47:30,439
of guy do you need? Versus do you need one

2347
01:47:30,840 --> 01:47:34,680
one more? You know, someone that's in the conversation for

2348
01:47:34,760 --> 01:47:37,239
being your like third, second or third best player, which

2349
01:47:37,279 --> 01:47:39,199
is a super high bar on a team like the Thunder.

2350
01:47:39,279 --> 01:47:41,119
But it's like, do you just need more star power

2351
01:47:41,159 --> 01:47:44,279
at the top, which means you can play lesser guys

2352
01:47:44,399 --> 01:47:47,000
in the same role as we're talking about with Wiggins

2353
01:47:47,000 --> 01:47:50,520
and Joe, or is it just better to have you know,

2354
01:47:51,079 --> 01:47:53,119
nine to ten deep of players that you can throw

2355
01:47:53,159 --> 01:47:55,279
out there and be like, he's gonna be fine. And

2356
01:47:55,319 --> 01:47:59,239
I think because the Thunder have like a pretty demonstrated

2357
01:47:59,319 --> 01:48:03,159
now need or just another creator probably like a like

2358
01:48:03,960 --> 01:48:06,079
that's the type of player that you should probably be

2359
01:48:06,199 --> 01:48:10,920
packaging up these really like good value contracts for I think,

2360
01:48:10,960 --> 01:48:14,000
and you can. The question is so you can get

2361
01:48:14,039 --> 01:48:16,720
to and you can you can add other salary too.

2362
01:48:16,720 --> 01:48:19,039
But if it's Joe who makes just under thirteen and

2363
01:48:19,079 --> 01:48:22,760
Wiggins is like ten and a half, so we're at twenty,

2364
01:48:23,119 --> 01:48:25,239
just say to call it twenty four million.

2365
01:48:25,399 --> 01:48:27,239
Speaker 1: And they can take back a shit ton of money

2366
01:48:27,520 --> 01:48:29,760
oh too, So who's the bet like, what are we

2367
01:48:29,800 --> 01:48:32,199
talking about? I was gonna ask you, because I don't

2368
01:48:32,199 --> 01:48:34,199
think they're gonna I don't think that's a decision they

2369
01:48:34,199 --> 01:48:37,800
would make mid season to go after the expensive shot

2370
01:48:37,840 --> 01:48:39,520
creator type. I was gonna ask you, would you trade

2371
01:48:39,600 --> 01:48:42,720
one of these guys and Usman Jang for Cam Johnson

2372
01:48:42,920 --> 01:48:46,560
or is that not enough of a I I think

2373
01:48:46,560 --> 01:48:48,840
I recognize that I'm way too high on Aaron Wiggins

2374
01:48:48,840 --> 01:48:51,800
because I would say no, okay, But I'm just sort

2375
01:48:51,840 --> 01:48:54,520
of like, if they don't, because we're talking about shot creators,

2376
01:48:54,520 --> 01:48:57,159
if you don't think Aaron Wiggins is a potentially like

2377
01:48:57,199 --> 01:48:59,039
why are you gonna think Cam Johnson is? Like that's

2378
01:48:59,039 --> 01:49:01,279
not the stuff he does in Brooklyn or in general,

2379
01:49:01,560 --> 01:49:03,399
I think you would just be one another calf flock

2380
01:49:03,439 --> 01:49:07,079
shooter to maybe try and offset the absence of only

2381
01:49:07,119 --> 01:49:10,319
having let's say one and a half to two top

2382
01:49:10,359 --> 01:49:12,720
tier creators creators in a playoff series.

2383
01:49:13,159 --> 01:49:16,119
Speaker 2: I I think I think I would do that. I

2384
01:49:16,199 --> 01:49:18,159
like Wiggins a ton and he's a great three point

2385
01:49:18,159 --> 01:49:20,199
shooter and in addition to the has added a lot

2386
01:49:20,239 --> 01:49:22,239
off the dribble stuff, as some of his drives this

2387
01:49:22,319 --> 01:49:24,640
year have been really eye opening. But he is really

2388
01:49:24,640 --> 01:49:27,199
a two and like, I don't know, and Johnson just

2389
01:49:27,239 --> 01:49:30,279
has more size. Not a great defender, but like and

2390
01:49:30,279 --> 01:49:31,600
and it's just going to get him up, is going

2391
01:49:31,640 --> 01:49:34,079
to get threes up. So I think Johnson is more valuable,

2392
01:49:34,520 --> 01:49:36,399
but he isn't the type of player we were just

2393
01:49:36,600 --> 01:49:38,920
saying they need, right, I think I think he could.

2394
01:49:38,960 --> 01:49:41,000
Speaker 1: I would do that. If you're Brooklyn, would you do

2395
01:49:41,560 --> 01:49:43,760
I think Jang and Wiggins. I think that the money

2396
01:49:43,800 --> 01:49:45,359
comes close. You could figure it out from there. But like,

2397
01:49:45,439 --> 01:49:46,720
is that a package you would accept?

2398
01:49:47,000 --> 01:49:49,840
Speaker 2: I would do it pick or picks? If I'm Brooklyn.

2399
01:49:50,319 --> 01:49:54,800
Oh really, yeah, Well I'm trading with if I'm training with. Okay, see,

2400
01:49:54,880 --> 01:49:57,319
I'm not going to start from the perspective of I

2401
01:49:57,359 --> 01:50:00,199
don't need picks. I'm going to start from an outrageous

2402
01:50:00,479 --> 01:50:03,279
ask p like can we get like four? Do you

2403
01:50:03,319 --> 01:50:05,159
guys even like know where they all are?

2404
01:50:06,800 --> 01:50:08,640
Speaker 1: So? Is there a name then that, like a bigger

2405
01:50:08,720 --> 01:50:10,159
name that would bring to mind that would check the

2406
01:50:10,199 --> 01:50:13,199
box that we think they need to fill the Well,

2407
01:50:13,279 --> 01:50:15,359
I guess you could argue just because you have j

2408
01:50:15,560 --> 01:50:20,000
Dubb with Chet Holmgren coming back, that doesn't a capslock shooter.

2409
01:50:20,199 --> 01:50:26,920
Maybe potentially overright not overrighte but negate or overlap with Well,

2410
01:50:26,920 --> 01:50:29,319
if you do this, it will make the shot creation

2411
01:50:29,479 --> 01:50:32,720
easier on our secondary guys anyway, so we don't necessarily

2412
01:50:32,720 --> 01:50:35,079
need to go after the caps lock shot creator.

2413
01:50:35,239 --> 01:50:37,359
Speaker 2: That's the thing, Like it's really hard. Like so if

2414
01:50:37,399 --> 01:50:40,840
you go get that guy, who's he closing over because

2415
01:50:40,880 --> 01:50:46,359
you're gonna have certainly Jada Sga, you're gonna have I

2416
01:50:46,359 --> 01:50:49,159
guess chet Ann Hartenstein. Are you closing with both of

2417
01:50:49,199 --> 01:50:51,560
those two? I think you have to right now?

2418
01:50:52,159 --> 01:50:54,920
Speaker 1: They probably wouldn't given how small they're used to playing right.

2419
01:50:54,840 --> 01:50:56,760
Speaker 2: Well, but like if we are in the if well,

2420
01:50:56,800 --> 01:50:59,159
I guess it depends on the matchup, But like, why

2421
01:50:59,199 --> 01:51:02,600
are we It's hard to imagine in the conference finals

2422
01:51:02,680 --> 01:51:04,840
or finals, you're not you don't have those four guys

2423
01:51:04,840 --> 01:51:07,359
out there. I think, I don't know, maybe I'm crazy,

2424
01:51:07,399 --> 01:51:08,399
but like I.

2425
01:51:09,880 --> 01:51:12,359
Speaker 1: You know, I honestly I had this discussion before the

2426
01:51:12,359 --> 01:51:15,479
season started with the uncontested guys, and I don't know

2427
01:51:15,479 --> 01:51:16,800
if we're ever gonna find out to answer at this

2428
01:51:16,840 --> 01:51:19,760
point to it, I argued they were less likely to

2429
01:51:19,800 --> 01:51:21,640
close dual big than not.

2430
01:51:21,920 --> 01:51:24,439
Speaker 2: Which means Chet is out there right like, is it Chet?

2431
01:51:25,119 --> 01:51:28,319
I mean, I can't fathom. Can you imagine closing high

2432
01:51:28,399 --> 01:51:30,880
level games for them without Chet? Given like what he

2433
01:51:31,760 --> 01:51:35,000
the space he occupies in that organization, I can't do.

2434
01:51:35,159 --> 01:51:37,199
Speaker 1: Well, That's not what I was arguing. I just think

2435
01:51:37,199 --> 01:51:40,920
that Isaiah Hartenstein, I sometimes I feel not I'm not

2436
01:51:40,920 --> 01:51:43,560
saying you're doing this, but I think are sometimes are

2437
01:51:43,560 --> 01:51:45,600
we clouded by just how much he's making. Well, if

2438
01:51:45,640 --> 01:51:47,479
it gave him thirty million dollars, he's gonna close.

2439
01:51:47,560 --> 01:51:50,000
Speaker 2: That's that's in my thinking. I assume you pay that

2440
01:51:50,079 --> 01:51:51,479
knowing he's gonna close for you.

2441
01:51:51,640 --> 01:51:53,800
Speaker 1: I don't assume that you just paid that because one,

2442
01:51:53,840 --> 01:51:55,399
it was kind of the we're gonna keep you from

2443
01:51:55,439 --> 01:51:58,199
going somewhere else to comparable money, like New York could

2444
01:51:58,199 --> 01:52:00,359
figure out how to get there with their early bird rights.

2445
01:52:00,680 --> 01:52:05,680
And then two like this is the the team option tax,

2446
01:52:05,800 --> 01:52:08,880
whereas you got two years of guaranteed money, not three.

2447
01:52:09,199 --> 01:52:11,159
So that's how I viewed it. But you might be right.

2448
01:52:11,520 --> 01:52:11,800
I don't.

2449
01:52:11,800 --> 01:52:13,119
Speaker 2: I don't know. I think it's a fact. It's an

2450
01:52:13,119 --> 01:52:16,399
interesting question. But anyway, like what are you getting to?

2451
01:52:17,760 --> 01:52:19,880
Because I guess maybe i'd say it this way. I

2452
01:52:19,920 --> 01:52:22,840
think if you're the Thunder and you're making a significant trade.

2453
01:52:23,359 --> 01:52:25,920
You're trying to find someone that's for sure gonna close,

2454
01:52:25,920 --> 01:52:28,279
and maybe that means like Dort isn't closing or some

2455
01:52:28,520 --> 01:52:30,880
or something, or if he is, then one of your bigs,

2456
01:52:30,880 --> 01:52:32,840
isn't it. And that's a really high bar.

2457
01:52:33,319 --> 01:52:35,159
Speaker 1: And I guess what's also kind of a high bar too,

2458
01:52:35,239 --> 01:52:38,880
is like you Because here's an example. Would would they

2459
01:52:38,920 --> 01:52:42,239
be a darn Fox team or do you need that

2460
01:52:42,279 --> 01:52:45,680
shot creator to now have size because you look at

2461
01:52:45,720 --> 01:52:48,840
well you have Cason Wallace and Alex Caruso and Shake, Like, no,

2462
01:52:48,920 --> 01:52:50,760
you need someone who's bigger than let's say Shake, or

2463
01:52:50,760 --> 01:52:53,199
at least the same size as Shay.

2464
01:52:53,359 --> 01:52:56,680
Speaker 2: I mean, I feel okay with Shae on twos and

2465
01:52:57,039 --> 01:53:00,560
Jadab can guard whoever, so, but I would prefer size.

2466
01:53:00,600 --> 01:53:03,199
But like, if Fox is available, like can you what

2467
01:53:03,239 --> 01:53:06,840
a what a massive swing that would be? Because then I,

2468
01:53:06,880 --> 01:53:10,079
like I can't imagine the Thunder have a shot creation

2469
01:53:10,319 --> 01:53:14,039
problems if they have deeron Fox with Shay and with

2470
01:53:14,079 --> 01:53:17,600
Williams and with Chat, like that's that would solve the problem.

2471
01:53:17,680 --> 01:53:19,960
Every in a perfect world, you want all the things

2472
01:53:20,000 --> 01:53:22,520
and you wanted in a in a like a big

2473
01:53:22,560 --> 01:53:25,239
wing size player. But like, if I don't know who

2474
01:53:25,239 --> 01:53:27,199
that is, if we're talking about guys that are even

2475
01:53:27,279 --> 01:53:29,600
slightly available, I don't know how you do better than Fox.

2476
01:53:30,159 --> 01:53:36,680
Next up boy, Scoot Henderson, our guy? Uh, why is

2477
01:53:36,800 --> 01:53:38,840
he not on the block? Is it?

2478
01:53:38,880 --> 01:53:42,279
Speaker 1: Because the question isn't it too soon to Yeah, he

2479
01:53:42,319 --> 01:53:44,399
did just hit a game winner, so it's clearly too

2480
01:53:44,399 --> 01:53:45,640
soon to give up a bottom.

2481
01:53:46,000 --> 01:53:48,840
Speaker 2: It And really, depending on who you listen to, he

2482
01:53:48,960 --> 01:53:51,479
either has gotten no better at all or has shown

2483
01:53:51,600 --> 01:53:53,800
flashes to like it's just really some eye of the

2484
01:53:53,800 --> 01:53:56,319
beholder stuff with him, based on you know, relatives to

2485
01:53:56,439 --> 01:54:01,159
last year, which was about as disappointing his rookie seasons get.

2486
01:54:01,439 --> 01:54:05,960
I think. So if I'm Portland, I'm listening, but I'm

2487
01:54:06,000 --> 01:54:09,760
not expecting the kinds of offers that I would want

2488
01:54:09,840 --> 01:54:14,279
to trade someone that eighteen months eighteen months ago, year

2489
01:54:14,279 --> 01:54:17,600
and a half ago, we believed was a franchise cornerstone. Like,

2490
01:54:17,640 --> 01:54:19,760
I just think it's it's too early for them to

2491
01:54:19,800 --> 01:54:22,439
do that. But you definitely like he hasn't played well

2492
01:54:22,520 --> 01:54:24,920
enough to where you're not picking the phone up when

2493
01:54:24,920 --> 01:54:26,439
teams call, assuming they are.

2494
01:54:27,520 --> 01:54:30,199
Speaker 1: So Scoot Henderson for Brandon Miller, who says.

2495
01:54:30,039 --> 01:54:36,479
Speaker 2: No, Michael No, is Michael Jordan in charge? Still? When

2496
01:54:36,560 --> 01:54:37,680
Brandon Miller got picked.

2497
01:54:37,520 --> 01:54:40,840
Speaker 1: There, would you prefer to have Scoot Henderson or Jade

2498
01:54:40,840 --> 01:54:41,560
and Ivy.

2499
01:54:42,840 --> 01:54:51,039
Speaker 2: Oh Man. I think I would probably rather have Scoot still.

2500
01:54:51,720 --> 01:54:53,800
But if it were like if we get to the

2501
01:54:53,880 --> 01:54:56,159
end of this year and we don't see a second

2502
01:54:56,199 --> 01:54:58,520
half even then we'll be skeptical of it because Portland

2503
01:54:58,520 --> 01:55:03,039
loves the second half surges guys, then it might be different.

2504
01:55:03,079 --> 01:55:07,079
But I I think probably Scoot. I'm giving Scoot more time.

2505
01:55:07,319 --> 01:55:09,359
I think before I pull the plug.

2506
01:55:09,159 --> 01:55:10,560
Speaker 1: I'm with you, and I would like to see him

2507
01:55:10,600 --> 01:55:13,159
with better spacing around him too. I think that that

2508
01:55:13,199 --> 01:55:15,479
could go a long way. Next. So this is here,

2509
01:55:15,479 --> 01:55:19,159
we are, here we go. So latest the Aaron Fox.

2510
01:55:19,159 --> 01:55:21,239
I'm sure you watch the postgame interview clip which when

2511
01:55:21,359 --> 01:55:23,479
when you watch it wasn't the stuff he said, it

2512
01:55:23,880 --> 01:55:26,079
wasn't bad. I'm just I'm with him. I'm like, yeah,

2513
01:55:26,119 --> 01:55:28,720
like it doesn't matter because you guys suck right now

2514
01:55:28,760 --> 01:55:33,239
pretty much. The rumors are that the news is that

2515
01:55:33,239 --> 01:55:35,520
teams have basically circled him as the player to go,

2516
01:55:35,640 --> 01:55:38,800
and he has he will be extension as well again

2517
01:55:38,840 --> 01:55:41,399
this summer. He could wind up getting over three hundred

2518
01:55:41,399 --> 01:55:44,279
if he makes an All NBA team, but he has

2519
01:55:44,439 --> 01:55:49,479
one more guaranteed year left on his contract and teams

2520
01:55:49,479 --> 01:55:52,640
are watching. I don't I haven't seen any reporting that

2521
01:55:52,680 --> 01:55:55,039
the Kings are listening, but we know that Rich Paul

2522
01:55:55,840 --> 01:55:58,479
did have a meeting with the Kings organization to kind

2523
01:55:58,520 --> 01:56:03,079
of see where this is all headed. Should this, given

2524
01:56:03,079 --> 01:56:06,640
the state of the Kings, should they trade It's not

2525
01:56:06,680 --> 01:56:09,079
even should he be available? Is he untouchable? Do you

2526
01:56:09,119 --> 01:56:11,800
think they should actually trade him?

2527
01:56:12,159 --> 01:56:15,359
Speaker 2: I think the only way that that should be a

2528
01:56:15,399 --> 01:56:19,680
consideration is if, and this has not been reported, he's

2529
01:56:19,840 --> 01:56:24,239
just like it gets to a point where his play

2530
01:56:24,279 --> 01:56:26,920
starts to suffer or the vibes get real bad, because

2531
01:56:26,920 --> 01:56:29,560
it's very clear he's like sort of done there. And

2532
01:56:30,039 --> 01:56:33,479
I don't think you take that that postgame media availability

2533
01:56:33,520 --> 01:56:35,600
as like the kind of evidence you like, how do

2534
01:56:35,640 --> 01:56:39,000
you want him to sound after his team has just blown? However,

2535
01:56:39,039 --> 01:56:41,399
many games, you know, they just can't win games late.

2536
01:56:41,840 --> 01:56:46,000
Speaker 1: They are grant in games where they're tied or ahead

2537
01:56:46,720 --> 01:56:50,039
in the final five minutes, they are six and eight tier.

2538
01:56:50,159 --> 01:56:52,359
There's no there's no trailing in that they're six and

2539
01:56:52,399 --> 01:56:54,000
eight when they're tied or ahead.

2540
01:56:53,920 --> 01:56:56,359
Speaker 2: And they have two of the last three Clutch Player

2541
01:56:56,399 --> 01:56:59,560
of the Year Award winners, DANU, can we just cite

2542
01:56:59,600 --> 01:57:03,399
this whenever we talk about how just absurd the Clutch

2543
01:57:03,439 --> 01:57:07,600
Player Award is and how unpredictive it is. So anyway,

2544
01:57:08,079 --> 01:57:11,840
they like it's getting harder. We both when we did

2545
01:57:11,840 --> 01:57:13,439
this a couple of weeks ago, said we thought the

2546
01:57:13,479 --> 01:57:15,920
Kings would get better than they were, and like the

2547
01:57:15,920 --> 01:57:18,119
fact that they keep losing these close games is like,

2548
01:57:18,560 --> 01:57:20,760
I don't know that changes my opinion. All the underlying

2549
01:57:20,840 --> 01:57:23,279
numbers are you know, they're not super encouraging relative to

2550
01:57:23,319 --> 01:57:24,800
where they were a couple of years ago, but like

2551
01:57:26,079 --> 01:57:29,039
still when they generally have a they have a positive

2552
01:57:29,039 --> 01:57:31,680
net rating, like they're they're not a bad team, they

2553
01:57:31,720 --> 01:57:34,000
just have lost close games and things can snowball. Anyway.

2554
01:57:34,319 --> 01:57:36,359
I think that's the only scenario where you trade him

2555
01:57:36,600 --> 01:57:42,479
before trying literally everything else. And that extends to DeRozan

2556
01:57:42,600 --> 01:57:46,039
the bonus like Kegan Murray, like you try, you probably

2557
01:57:46,039 --> 01:57:48,960
fire Mike Brown, although they just extended him. Like I

2558
01:57:49,000 --> 01:57:52,199
think I try everything I possibly can before I trade him,

2559
01:57:52,239 --> 01:57:55,520
particularly talking about this trade deadline, because you do have

2560
01:57:56,119 --> 01:57:59,119
another full year to extend him, So like, that's my

2561
01:57:59,199 --> 01:58:01,920
last resort is trading him unless he says unless it's

2562
01:58:01,920 --> 01:58:03,880
clear like it's over, which I don't think it is.

2563
01:58:04,199 --> 01:58:05,560
Speaker 1: I yeah, I think for me it would have to be.

2564
01:58:05,600 --> 01:58:07,920
He asked for out and now it's okay. He really

2565
01:58:07,920 --> 01:58:09,760
only has if he's not going to sign this extension,

2566
01:58:09,800 --> 01:58:11,840
he just has the one year left, right, we need

2567
01:58:11,840 --> 01:58:14,000
to make the move. What I keep coming back to,

2568
01:58:14,039 --> 01:58:16,039
and I did mention this during the Jimmy Butler episode,

2569
01:58:16,039 --> 01:58:18,319
but Greg Whisker of The King's Harold phrased it like this,

2570
01:58:19,079 --> 01:58:23,039
if you don't trust this franchise to continue building around

2571
01:58:23,159 --> 01:58:26,720
the group that they've assembled, why are you trusting them

2572
01:58:27,279 --> 01:58:29,720
to then rebuild? Because if you're trading Daron Fox, it's

2573
01:58:30,039 --> 01:58:32,000
it's a rebuild, right, Like we haven't talked about that.

2574
01:58:32,039 --> 01:58:36,560
You're not trading Thearon Fox and just changing the cosmetics

2575
01:58:36,560 --> 01:58:39,840
of your team and potentially getting better or more well balanced.

2576
01:58:39,880 --> 01:58:42,279
Speaker 2: Correct, Well, I just don't know who you're taking back

2577
01:58:42,359 --> 01:58:43,279
that you know.

2578
01:58:43,359 --> 01:58:45,439
Speaker 1: It's not like you're going to trade Dedaron Fox for

2579
01:58:45,520 --> 01:58:47,640
Jimmy Butler and you're shrinking your window but you think

2580
01:58:47,680 --> 01:58:50,319
that that for some reason, Yeah, well or worth shooting.

2581
01:58:50,359 --> 01:58:53,760
Speaker 2: Apparently it's it's a different situation. But like the Halliburton

2582
01:58:53,840 --> 01:58:56,880
for Sa bonus trade ironically was like, well, we're gonna

2583
01:58:56,880 --> 01:59:00,199
be really different and but like you know, we're still good.

2584
01:59:00,359 --> 01:59:02,640
It's just where I don't see that trade where you're

2585
01:59:02,680 --> 01:59:05,319
trading Fox for a very different type of player Malik

2586
01:59:05,359 --> 01:59:07,760
Monks are lead ball handler now and or Dero we

2587
01:59:07,840 --> 01:59:10,039
run it through Deroz and like, I don't know what

2588
01:59:10,079 --> 01:59:13,600
you're doing because what the team needs, well, one, in hindsight,

2589
01:59:13,680 --> 01:59:16,399
is probably not to make the Derozean trade. And two

2590
01:59:16,560 --> 01:59:19,119
like a backup four and a backup five and like

2591
01:59:19,159 --> 01:59:22,439
a wing defender, it needs like component parts. To me,

2592
01:59:23,159 --> 01:59:25,840
like I was gonna have a longer conversation about can

2593
01:59:25,880 --> 01:59:28,640
this function with just all these offense only guys? I

2594
01:59:28,640 --> 01:59:32,520
don't know, but like it's what you need is not

2595
01:59:32,840 --> 01:59:35,000
like the thing you should be getting back in a

2596
01:59:35,039 --> 01:59:37,560
Fox trade, right, So that's why I think you start

2597
01:59:37,560 --> 01:59:39,880
someplace else other than trading him.

2598
01:59:40,199 --> 01:59:43,039
Speaker 1: Which and it does it kind of blow your mind

2599
01:59:43,119 --> 01:59:46,079
that domas a bonus is not Is it just because

2600
01:59:46,079 --> 01:59:49,119
of the contract situation that the Aaron Fox and we

2601
01:59:49,159 --> 01:59:52,840
know that clutchboards met with the Kings. It's like, why

2602
01:59:52,880 --> 01:59:55,079
aren't we talking about it then? With the Bonus because

2603
01:59:55,079 --> 01:59:56,840
he gives you limit, Like, so part of why their

2604
01:59:56,840 --> 02:00:00,479
defense is well, it's not so bad statistically, it's not terrible.

2605
02:00:00,840 --> 02:00:03,439
They have to sell out their perimeter players to ward

2606
02:00:03,439 --> 02:00:05,399
off shots at the rim because sa Bonus is not

2607
02:00:05,439 --> 02:00:08,399
a good rim protector, right, and that then makes it

2608
02:00:08,439 --> 02:00:13,000
harder to shoot gaps on closeouts or adequately contest three pointers.

2609
02:00:13,000 --> 02:00:14,479
And it's not even that they're giving up the biggest

2610
02:00:14,520 --> 02:00:17,159
share of wide open three pointers. It's just that it

2611
02:00:17,239 --> 02:00:21,239
makes life so much harder on everybody else. And so like,

2612
02:00:21,319 --> 02:00:23,319
why isn't he the name? Is it just a trade

2613
02:00:23,399 --> 02:00:25,720
value thing too, or is it strictly the contract stuff

2614
02:00:25,760 --> 02:00:26,239
with Fox?

2615
02:00:26,960 --> 02:00:29,840
Speaker 2: I I think, well, Sabonis is where I would start,

2616
02:00:29,880 --> 02:00:33,000
because I think, like the numbers are are tough, like

2617
02:00:33,159 --> 02:00:37,119
forty million this year, forty three, forty six, forty almost

2618
02:00:37,159 --> 02:00:39,680
fifty in the fourth year that he's got left, so like,

2619
02:00:40,520 --> 02:00:42,640
I'd be hard pressed to well, first of all, let's

2620
02:00:42,640 --> 02:00:44,399
go back to when they signed with that extension, Like

2621
02:00:44,439 --> 02:00:46,560
where was the competition that was going that high for him?

2622
02:00:46,560 --> 02:00:49,560
I don't think it extended. So yeah, I feel bad.

2623
02:00:49,439 --> 02:00:53,039
Speaker 1: To renegotiate and extend him unless wasn't part of the value.

2624
02:00:53,079 --> 02:00:55,520
He said, Well, then the deal is technically shorter because

2625
02:00:55,520 --> 02:00:57,359
you're not getting to get the free agency inside.

2626
02:00:57,359 --> 02:00:59,479
Speaker 2: I just like, I feel like I have to be

2627
02:00:59,600 --> 02:01:01,560
I feel like I need to be careful talking about

2628
02:01:01,560 --> 02:01:04,439
the Kings and Sabonis because I I've just been so

2629
02:01:04,680 --> 02:01:07,640
broken record about like he's a good offensive player and

2630
02:01:08,159 --> 02:01:10,520
it's seeming like a great guy, but it's just like

2631
02:01:10,560 --> 02:01:13,720
he can't be a huge piece of a team that

2632
02:01:13,840 --> 02:01:16,760
actually wins. Like so like, I don't know who's knocking

2633
02:01:16,760 --> 02:01:18,239
the door down for him at that pay rate.

2634
02:01:18,560 --> 02:01:20,560
Speaker 1: I do agree with I agree with you that point

2635
02:01:20,640 --> 02:01:22,720
that I just don't I even think with the Aaron

2636
02:01:22,800 --> 02:01:25,760
Fox having only one guaranteed year left on his deal,

2637
02:01:26,119 --> 02:01:27,960
if you put both on the market right now, there'd

2638
02:01:28,000 --> 02:01:29,960
be more suitors for the Aaron Fox, and by virtue

2639
02:01:30,000 --> 02:01:33,199
of that, you just get more. Wait, ram My counter

2640
02:01:33,319 --> 02:01:35,479
with a derozean, how good can the Kings be with

2641
02:01:35,560 --> 02:01:38,520
him on this team? And this is now, what is

2642
02:01:38,560 --> 02:01:41,239
this year four or year three and a half of

2643
02:01:40,880 --> 02:01:43,359
the of the Sabonis in Sacramento.

2644
02:01:42,960 --> 02:01:46,800
Speaker 2: Right, something like that, Yeah.

2645
02:01:45,399 --> 02:01:48,000
Speaker 1: Why have you not the stuff that we're talking about,

2646
02:01:48,039 --> 02:01:50,680
the components that you mentioned, This has been in need

2647
02:01:50,720 --> 02:01:54,359
since day one, and it's been what you did with

2648
02:01:54,439 --> 02:01:57,840
DeRozan is you addressed one need you wanted another shot

2649
02:01:57,880 --> 02:02:02,680
creator while exacerbating others, especially if you've viewed Keon Ellis

2650
02:02:02,720 --> 02:02:06,640
as the human seesaw that you view him as apparently,

2651
02:02:07,079 --> 02:02:09,359
and I think that's the biggest criticism of the Kings

2652
02:02:09,479 --> 02:02:12,439
is why are we starting with the two best players

2653
02:02:12,439 --> 02:02:15,199
on this team? And even like Kegan Murray, I hate

2654
02:02:15,199 --> 02:02:16,840
to use the word untouchable, but like you're not looking

2655
02:02:16,840 --> 02:02:19,439
to move him, Like, why have you not done a

2656
02:02:19,439 --> 02:02:23,079
better job optimizing what's around them? And you did it

2657
02:02:23,079 --> 02:02:24,880
for maybe one year where you just leaned all the

2658
02:02:24,880 --> 02:02:27,279
way into offense, But if you wanted to provide a

2659
02:02:27,279 --> 02:02:30,279
more balanced attack, the way to do that is to

2660
02:02:30,359 --> 02:02:34,720
not consistently feel more one way players or shallower rotation.

2661
02:02:35,239 --> 02:02:39,359
And that's ostensibly what they've done, and they've even I'll

2662
02:02:39,439 --> 02:02:42,560
argue a step further this year, they've like how many

2663
02:02:42,600 --> 02:02:45,680
two way players are on this roster? Truly, there is

2664
02:02:45,760 --> 02:02:48,079
Keegan Murray who has probably been more of a one

2665
02:02:48,119 --> 02:02:51,119
way player this year. But in theory, there's Keegan Murray,

2666
02:02:51,479 --> 02:02:54,560
I think the Aaron Fox on some Nights or Knight

2667
02:02:54,760 --> 02:02:58,520
is there, and there's ke Ellis And now you've marginalized

2668
02:02:58,600 --> 02:03:02,800
Keon Ellis without really leaning into the offense first. I mean,

2669
02:03:02,840 --> 02:03:05,399
I guess the make up the players that you're giving

2670
02:03:05,439 --> 02:03:07,760
time to. Okay, that does look like an offense first team,

2671
02:03:08,000 --> 02:03:10,720
but it's not like you're first an offensive efficiency again,

2672
02:03:11,279 --> 02:03:15,439
and so I just use the word components, which was perfect.

2673
02:03:15,920 --> 02:03:17,720
This is a year's long thing of just the front

2674
02:03:17,760 --> 02:03:20,399
up is actively looking at the roster and say like, no,

2675
02:03:20,479 --> 02:03:21,840
we won't, we won't do this.

2676
02:03:22,199 --> 02:03:24,199
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's it's interesting because like, well they did

2677
02:03:24,319 --> 02:03:26,960
draft dave On Mitchell and but then like that's just

2678
02:03:27,000 --> 02:03:29,239
another one way guy. You know, you're not you're not

2679
02:03:29,399 --> 02:03:32,479
really addressing your inability to compete at the highest levels

2680
02:03:32,479 --> 02:03:34,600
by adding a guy like him to the rotation.

2681
02:03:35,000 --> 02:03:38,039
Speaker 1: And why did you again the injury stuff whatever, Maybe

2682
02:03:38,039 --> 02:03:40,640
he'll end up being good for what this team needed.

2683
02:03:41,000 --> 02:03:42,680
Why is Devin Carter on this team?

2684
02:03:42,880 --> 02:03:44,680
Speaker 2: Right? Why not just take a shot at a wing

2685
02:03:44,920 --> 02:03:48,520
that you know, pete.

2686
02:03:47,479 --> 02:03:49,199
Speaker 1: Drafting someone else who's under six four?

2687
02:03:49,479 --> 02:03:52,239
Speaker 2: So I think we should be just to be accountable.

2688
02:03:52,399 --> 02:03:55,800
Like I actually, I like I now wish that I

2689
02:03:55,880 --> 02:03:59,920
hadn't been quite so equivocal about the Derozean trade, because like,

2690
02:04:00,119 --> 02:04:02,600
your very first reaction is that's dumb. They don't need that.

2691
02:04:03,000 --> 02:04:04,800
But then it was like, for the price, why do

2692
02:04:04,880 --> 02:04:06,920
you not add that level of talent and just hope

2693
02:04:06,920 --> 02:04:08,319
they'll figure it out. And I think that's where we

2694
02:04:08,319 --> 02:04:11,359
both ultimately landed, was just like, yeah, you do that, right,

2695
02:04:11,640 --> 02:04:14,760
Like we were aware of the it's suboptimal in a

2696
02:04:14,760 --> 02:04:16,359
lot of ways, but if you can get Derosen for

2697
02:04:16,399 --> 02:04:18,720
what it costs, you should just do that. And now

2698
02:04:18,760 --> 02:04:22,000
it really feels like maybe you don't because he was

2699
02:04:22,159 --> 02:04:24,720
he's so duplicative and he so has changed the way

2700
02:04:24,720 --> 02:04:26,920
they play on offense, like the threes are way down,

2701
02:04:26,960 --> 02:04:30,039
which is like, yeah, that's gonna happen. It just it

2702
02:04:30,079 --> 02:04:33,680
didn't work. And I mean, honestly, we've probably talked about

2703
02:04:33,720 --> 02:04:35,239
this at the time, but when they could have traded

2704
02:04:35,279 --> 02:04:37,560
Malik Monk, like you probably need to just trade him,

2705
02:04:37,680 --> 02:04:40,039
like because now what now look where you are, Like,

2706
02:04:40,119 --> 02:04:42,800
I just he's not something that you there you go,

2707
02:04:42,920 --> 02:04:45,159
We've got tomorrow and Malik on our next slide here,

2708
02:04:45,159 --> 02:04:48,239
like can you move either of those guys? And if

2709
02:04:48,239 --> 02:04:50,960
you do, what are you looking for? Like? Who? Who

2710
02:04:51,119 --> 02:04:52,920
do you? Just? Are we going to talk about Cam

2711
02:04:53,000 --> 02:04:55,640
Johnson and DFS again? Like is that is that where

2712
02:04:55,640 --> 02:04:55,960
you go?

2713
02:04:56,560 --> 02:04:59,239
Speaker 1: Well, it's interesting, I think you could still defend the

2714
02:04:59,319 --> 02:05:02,359
Damar And we did talk about this, I believe, and

2715
02:05:02,399 --> 02:05:04,720
I asked Greg Whizzinger about this on the King's look Ahead,

2716
02:05:04,760 --> 02:05:09,560
that does the DeMar DeRozan arrival portend that, well, Malik Monk,

2717
02:05:09,760 --> 02:05:11,720
they're gonna look to move him at this new number

2718
02:05:11,760 --> 02:05:14,520
and hope to use him as more of a premier anchor.

2719
02:05:15,039 --> 02:05:18,880
And that honestly that if you could get what you listed,

2720
02:05:19,039 --> 02:05:21,760
you know, a wing defender and another backup big or

2721
02:05:21,720 --> 02:05:24,359
a combo forward without moving either of these two guys,

2722
02:05:25,079 --> 02:05:28,199
let's talk but you realistically probably like these are the

2723
02:05:28,239 --> 02:05:30,159
two that I look at and say, well, why isn't

2724
02:05:30,199 --> 02:05:33,479
it them? Plus whatever? Yeah, like are we is it

2725
02:05:33,520 --> 02:05:35,600
a meggot? Are they going after Jimmy Butler? And then

2726
02:05:35,640 --> 02:05:39,119
they're including Kevin Herder and Picks? I just like that's

2727
02:05:39,159 --> 02:05:41,880
where you start, I think, And even if you don't

2728
02:05:41,920 --> 02:05:44,119
trust the King's direction, I would argue, that's where you

2729
02:05:44,199 --> 02:05:47,520
have to start, because unless Fox ask for out now,

2730
02:05:47,960 --> 02:05:49,359
you don't get to play. But we have to wait

2731
02:05:49,399 --> 02:05:50,880
and see if he asked her out over the summer.

2732
02:05:50,920 --> 02:05:52,680
So we're not gonna do no, You've done enough for

2733
02:05:52,840 --> 02:05:55,600
doing nothing. This is where it starts. I'm not saying

2734
02:05:55,640 --> 02:05:58,199
either of these two guys are the root problem. I'd

2735
02:05:58,199 --> 02:06:00,119
said this when I talked about them the other day.

2736
02:06:00,920 --> 02:06:04,640
They're a confluence of problems of like minor to moderate

2737
02:06:04,680 --> 02:06:07,640
problems that have now co laced into something gigantic to

2738
02:06:07,680 --> 02:06:10,359
where if the playoffs started today, they wouldn't even be

2739
02:06:10,359 --> 02:06:13,239
in the play in tournament. And that's the I don't

2740
02:06:13,239 --> 02:06:15,079
know the name, you've already said that, like, are we

2741
02:06:15,279 --> 02:06:18,119
just revisiting mckam Johnson, Dorrian Phinney Smith stuff? And those

2742
02:06:18,119 --> 02:06:21,359
guys alone aren't gonna fix anything. And should the Kings

2743
02:06:21,399 --> 02:06:24,199
be taking a swing at a Jimmy Butler who is

2744
02:06:24,479 --> 02:06:27,199
Damar DeRozan's age bracket? But you have to give up

2745
02:06:27,279 --> 02:06:29,960
picks to get him, in addition to what you already

2746
02:06:30,000 --> 02:06:32,319
gave up to get Tomar, which really amounts to a

2747
02:06:32,359 --> 02:06:35,960
swap and Harrison Barnes, So maybe it's not too much.

2748
02:06:36,560 --> 02:06:40,000
I I'm probably not looking at the mega trade like

2749
02:06:40,079 --> 02:06:41,920
go after Jimmy Butler or I don't even know what

2750
02:06:41,960 --> 02:06:44,960
the other player would be. But this team needs to

2751
02:06:45,000 --> 02:06:47,439
be more proactive somehow, Like why like we haven't heard

2752
02:06:47,479 --> 02:06:50,079
them really mentioned with a Larry Nance junior and you

2753
02:06:50,079 --> 02:06:54,319
know what, you get zero points for recycling. How often

2754
02:06:54,319 --> 02:06:57,479
have they been mentioned with Dorian Phinney, Smith, Kyle Kuzman,

2755
02:06:57,479 --> 02:06:59,600
and Cam Johnson. Those are the names that have been

2756
02:06:59,600 --> 02:07:02,279
brought up for over a year. I'm not going to

2757
02:07:02,359 --> 02:07:04,479
give the Kings a pat on the bat, like it'll

2758
02:07:04,520 --> 02:07:06,399
be really cool on February seventh when we see all

2759
02:07:06,399 --> 02:07:08,520
the stories about how the King's like almost traded for

2760
02:07:08,560 --> 02:07:10,119
the same three guys again.

2761
02:07:10,079 --> 02:07:12,199
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, well you know what they need. I

2762
02:07:12,199 --> 02:07:14,279
guess this is I don't know if it's too far

2763
02:07:14,600 --> 02:07:18,720
of an edge case, but like they need the PJ. Washington,

2764
02:07:18,800 --> 02:07:22,279
Daniel Gafford series of moves that Dallas made, Like that

2765
02:07:22,279 --> 02:07:25,800
that kind of thing would be exactly what would would

2766
02:07:25,800 --> 02:07:29,880
improve the team without like fundamentally altering the core. Now

2767
02:07:30,039 --> 02:07:33,119
it's different because lucas better than Fox, Kyrie is better

2768
02:07:33,159 --> 02:07:35,319
than Sabonis, So you're just starting from a higher level

2769
02:07:35,359 --> 02:07:38,319
from your your main drivers of offense. But like, get

2770
02:07:38,359 --> 02:07:41,600
the combo forward that shoots threes and can guard four positions,

2771
02:07:41,880 --> 02:07:44,319
get the backup big that's actually good. So you're not

2772
02:07:44,359 --> 02:07:47,159
playing Trey Lyles and Alex Lynn and whoever else like

2773
02:07:47,840 --> 02:07:50,439
that and so, and I like, could you you would

2774
02:07:50,520 --> 02:07:53,479
think you could do something like that with Monk or

2775
02:07:53,520 --> 02:07:58,239
DeRozan as like the main outgoing salary. I think, because

2776
02:07:58,239 --> 02:08:00,560
what a Dallas? How did Dallas just use a single

2777
02:08:00,640 --> 02:08:04,039
first to pull all that off last year? Two? Okay,

2778
02:08:04,319 --> 02:08:06,720
that's good, I think. I think if you can do that,

2779
02:08:06,720 --> 02:08:09,479
that's the type of thing you look at way before

2780
02:08:09,560 --> 02:08:11,920
you get into Fox. But but if you aren't going

2781
02:08:12,000 --> 02:08:14,239
to do that, then I don't know. I don't know

2782
02:08:14,239 --> 02:08:16,359
what to tell you, like because you can't just start

2783
02:08:16,399 --> 02:08:17,960
with the nuclear option. I don't think.

2784
02:08:18,119 --> 02:08:20,960
Speaker 1: No, I'm with you there. Next up, I think this

2785
02:08:21,079 --> 02:08:23,319
is our final player, Jeremy Sewen.

2786
02:08:25,720 --> 02:08:29,039
Speaker 2: So the reason he could be on the block but

2787
02:08:29,199 --> 02:08:32,319
isn't is that you just don't believe in him as

2788
02:08:32,359 --> 02:08:35,439
an optimal fit. With Wemby, it's a weird positionless thing.

2789
02:08:35,520 --> 02:08:37,880
You like all the hustle, the defense, the way he

2790
02:08:37,920 --> 02:08:41,119
attacks the basket, but is that actually valuable in a

2791
02:08:41,159 --> 02:08:44,479
significant role and might somebody else view him as like

2792
02:08:44,479 --> 02:08:46,720
a more of a key. I don't know, Like what

2793
02:08:46,720 --> 02:08:49,039
do we think about him on the Kings just for example,

2794
02:08:49,159 --> 02:08:51,920
as like someone to play the four and run around?

2795
02:08:52,840 --> 02:08:53,840
Speaker 1: Apparently there you go.

2796
02:08:54,039 --> 02:08:57,119
Speaker 2: Maybe we've just spoken into existence. That's the thinking, right

2797
02:08:57,159 --> 02:08:59,680
as you're just not sure of his fit, like why

2798
02:08:59,680 --> 02:09:01,199
else should he be out there?

2799
02:09:01,439 --> 02:09:03,960
Speaker 1: Well, that and the fact that he's played. He's averaging

2800
02:09:04,000 --> 02:09:06,199
over fifteen points a game this season. The finishing is

2801
02:09:06,239 --> 02:09:10,079
probably the best of his career. So you're trading him,

2802
02:09:10,279 --> 02:09:13,159
I would say at the peak, given the level responsibility

2803
02:09:13,159 --> 02:09:15,560
he shoulders on the defensive end, probably at the peak

2804
02:09:15,600 --> 02:09:18,600
of his value. And you're doing it because of what

2805
02:09:18,640 --> 02:09:21,319
you mentioned that you don't think that he's the optimal

2806
02:09:21,319 --> 02:09:24,920
fit alongside Wemby. And just to that point, Wemby's effective

2807
02:09:24,920 --> 02:09:27,199
field goal percentage with Jeremy Sewen on the floor of

2808
02:09:27,239 --> 02:09:30,159
this season is forty eight point nine. When he's off

2809
02:09:30,159 --> 02:09:32,840
the court, it's sixty point nine. These two and the

2810
02:09:32,840 --> 02:09:34,920
Spurs have won the minutes they've played together, but it's

2811
02:09:34,960 --> 02:09:38,520
done mostly on the defensive end. So I'm not saying

2812
02:09:38,560 --> 02:09:43,800
trade him for draft equity, although myself I'm more talloused

2813
02:09:43,800 --> 02:09:45,680
about this. I might consider it if the picks are good,

2814
02:09:46,079 --> 02:09:48,039
but it might be more of a nudge of can

2815
02:09:48,079 --> 02:09:50,720
you do something that's a consolidation trade without making the

2816
02:09:50,800 --> 02:09:53,600
home run swing unless Darrek Fox would be a great

2817
02:09:53,600 --> 02:09:54,439
fit on the Spurs.

2818
02:09:54,640 --> 02:09:56,760
Speaker 2: Love it, yeah, that does.

2819
02:09:56,800 --> 02:09:58,920
Speaker 1: But it's Jeremy Sowen has not been bad this yar

2820
02:09:59,000 --> 02:10:00,840
to making clear. It's almost more intriguing to me because

2821
02:10:00,840 --> 02:10:03,760
he's been good. I don't view him as the optenal

2822
02:10:03,800 --> 02:10:07,560
fit alongside Wemby, especially if your your end game is

2823
02:10:07,600 --> 02:10:09,640
what we want. Stephan Castle to be a huge part

2824
02:10:09,640 --> 02:10:11,960
of this team as well, and you also have Devin

2825
02:10:12,000 --> 02:10:14,600
Massel by the way. So yes, there is a positional

2826
02:10:15,039 --> 02:10:20,479
void that in fury Jeremy Sohan can still slot into.

2827
02:10:20,680 --> 02:10:23,560
But I just don't think offensively he's built to play

2828
02:10:23,600 --> 02:10:26,359
that role long term in the Spurs to be the

2829
02:10:26,359 --> 02:10:27,840
best version of themselves.

2830
02:10:28,039 --> 02:10:31,720
Speaker 2: Would you feel differently if Castle right now we're shooting

2831
02:10:31,800 --> 02:10:34,720
like thirty four percent from three? You know, and you

2832
02:10:34,720 --> 02:10:37,359
you could because I think I think the problem is

2833
02:10:37,840 --> 02:10:40,000
you can't get away with if Castle is gonna be

2834
02:10:40,039 --> 02:10:42,000
like a real questionable shooter at least for the next

2835
02:10:42,039 --> 02:10:44,319
couple of years, because you're already I think if you're

2836
02:10:44,359 --> 02:10:47,279
the Spurs now, I don't know what you're where you're

2837
02:10:47,319 --> 02:10:50,000
when you're gonna peak with Wemby. But like, I think

2838
02:10:50,039 --> 02:10:52,159
this year has shown that, like it's time to start

2839
02:10:52,199 --> 02:10:56,319
thinking about like what kind of like we could win fifty,

2840
02:10:56,359 --> 02:10:58,520
you know, forty five to fifty games next year, Like

2841
02:10:58,600 --> 02:11:01,439
that's you should probably expect that if Wemby is this,

2842
02:11:02,079 --> 02:11:03,680
so you got to start thinking about, like can we

2843
02:11:03,680 --> 02:11:06,600
put in two non shooters in a in a lineup

2844
02:11:06,640 --> 02:11:08,840
next to Wemby, like and if if the answer is no,

2845
02:11:09,760 --> 02:11:11,319
I think certainly Castle is just going to be a

2846
02:11:11,359 --> 02:11:14,640
starter forever. But so Hann then is coming off the

2847
02:11:14,680 --> 02:11:18,119
bench as like a defensive specialist, and I don't know,

2848
02:11:18,720 --> 02:11:20,720
like do you want him for what he's gonna make

2849
02:11:20,720 --> 02:11:23,039
on his second contract in that role? That's another just

2850
02:11:23,079 --> 02:11:25,800
making another argument for it because it seems weird because

2851
02:11:25,800 --> 02:11:28,439
he's in his age, he's age twenty one. Season has

2852
02:11:28,479 --> 02:11:30,800
shown promise, Like why are we talking about this? But

2853
02:11:30,800 --> 02:11:32,239
I think it's because the Spurs are already at a

2854
02:11:32,239 --> 02:11:34,600
point where you have to start thinking about how this roster.

2855
02:11:34,399 --> 02:11:37,920
Speaker 1: Fits right, I guess. And if you're acquiring a dr

2856
02:11:37,920 --> 02:11:39,760
and Fox or just a bigger name, they've been mentioned

2857
02:11:39,760 --> 02:11:42,319
for Jimmy Butler two, so ann is a name that

2858
02:11:42,359 --> 02:11:44,920
it's it becomes easier to trade because like that's just

2859
02:11:45,039 --> 02:11:47,720
the collateral damage of doing that type of business. It

2860
02:11:47,720 --> 02:11:50,960
becomes more fascinating if you're going the notch or two

2861
02:11:51,000 --> 02:11:53,279
below to where it's how many name times if this

2862
02:11:53,399 --> 02:11:56,279
name come up? But are you doing salary plus so

2863
02:11:56,479 --> 02:12:03,920
in for Cam Johnson. Yeah, that's that's like the borderline name, right.

2864
02:12:03,960 --> 02:12:06,239
Speaker 2: It's it's the way I'm like hamming and hawing about

2865
02:12:06,279 --> 02:12:08,119
it is is like, Okay, that must be a pretty

2866
02:12:08,119 --> 02:12:11,079
good suggestion because you think you would definitely think about it,

2867
02:12:11,119 --> 02:12:14,479
but I'm not sure because you're just weighing so Sohan's

2868
02:12:14,520 --> 02:12:17,479
like I don't know potential, like what if he can

2869
02:12:17,479 --> 02:12:21,560
shoot eventually or what like a decent volume against Johnson

2870
02:12:21,640 --> 02:12:24,479
being like, what's six years older almost seven years older,

2871
02:12:25,279 --> 02:12:27,359
but but has the shooting skill that you sort of

2872
02:12:28,159 --> 02:12:30,760
you know, I think you want next to next to Wemby,

2873
02:12:30,840 --> 02:12:33,399
Like that's a bigger question, is like can you just

2874
02:12:33,560 --> 02:12:37,000
put offensive players around Wemby in trust that the defense

2875
02:12:37,039 --> 02:12:39,319
will be great because he's there, Like, what kind of

2876
02:12:39,319 --> 02:12:42,279
team do you really does it make sense to build?

2877
02:12:42,960 --> 02:12:45,640
Speaker 1: And I you know, in someone's this defense, Like I

2878
02:12:45,640 --> 02:12:48,000
do think the three point stroke looks better, but he's

2879
02:12:48,039 --> 02:12:50,279
taking fewer and he's making less of them. He's at

2880
02:12:50,279 --> 02:12:53,640
twenty six point seven percent this year. I I'm just

2881
02:12:53,840 --> 02:12:56,239
I guess I'm wondering I would trade him for Cam Johnson.

2882
02:12:56,279 --> 02:12:58,119
I'm trying to think of who the worst player is

2883
02:12:58,439 --> 02:13:01,319
that I would consider moving him for anyone on it?

2884
02:13:01,359 --> 02:13:03,439
Like what about a DeAndre Hunter? Is that too low?

2885
02:13:05,319 --> 02:13:05,680
I don't know.

2886
02:13:05,720 --> 02:13:08,960
Speaker 2: I mean I think I think I probably, Oh, that's tough.

2887
02:13:09,000 --> 02:13:12,399
DeAndre Hunter has been so good. I think if like

2888
02:13:12,600 --> 02:13:14,880
if we get to the deadline and Hunter is still

2889
02:13:14,880 --> 02:13:17,119
doing this, I think I would definitely trade so in

2890
02:13:17,279 --> 02:13:19,880
for him. But if if he turns back into what

2891
02:13:19,960 --> 02:13:21,680
he's been, I don't think you do that.

2892
02:13:22,840 --> 02:13:24,359
Speaker 1: Is there any other like I'm just trying to think of,

2893
02:13:24,399 --> 02:13:27,680
like what would be the name of I mean, I

2894
02:13:27,680 --> 02:13:30,079
guess we came up with it, the Cam Johnson, Dianny Hunter.

2895
02:13:30,159 --> 02:13:32,279
Speaker 2: Quick, let's do a different type of player? Would you

2896
02:13:32,319 --> 02:13:34,520
do it for HERB Jones? Just to cite somebody, else

2897
02:13:34,560 --> 02:13:37,479
we talked about. Yeah, oh yeah, but the Pelicans probably

2898
02:13:37,479 --> 02:13:39,039
don't unless we're in blode What.

2899
02:13:38,960 --> 02:13:41,720
Speaker 1: Would you do so in and a pick for Herb Jones.

2900
02:13:42,119 --> 02:13:45,840
So let's say Jeremy Sewen and that Atlanta pick in

2901
02:13:45,880 --> 02:13:48,000
twenty twenty seven. I mean, you could give them twenty

2902
02:13:48,119 --> 02:13:50,399
twenty five. I think New Orleans would prefer twenty seven,

2903
02:13:50,640 --> 02:13:52,640
just because they have their own pick this year. That's

2904
02:13:52,640 --> 02:13:55,279
gonna be really good. Do you do that? Which who

2905
02:13:55,319 --> 02:13:55,960
says no to that?

2906
02:13:57,600 --> 02:13:59,199
Speaker 2: I kind of like that. I think I think if

2907
02:13:59,199 --> 02:14:02,720
you're the Pelicans, you probably you're getting a good first

2908
02:14:03,000 --> 02:14:06,279
and basically another first, which is what Sohenna is.

2909
02:14:06,760 --> 02:14:09,239
Speaker 1: I think the Pelicans say no, And the argument would

2910
02:14:09,239 --> 02:14:12,079
be Herb Jones is the best player going out in

2911
02:14:12,079 --> 02:14:14,079
that deal, and we're then hoping that the Atlanta pick

2912
02:14:14,520 --> 02:14:16,439
turns into someone as good as Herb Jones.

2913
02:14:16,520 --> 02:14:19,199
Speaker 2: Yeah, and Atlanta is like gonna be decent because they

2914
02:14:19,239 --> 02:14:21,479
don't have Yeah, that's that's a good point. I don't know.

2915
02:14:21,720 --> 02:14:25,640
I mean, he's an interesting player because you could still

2916
02:14:25,680 --> 02:14:28,640
talk yourself into being a really effective, maybe starting level

2917
02:14:28,680 --> 02:14:31,479
guy on a good team. He's like sort of is

2918
02:14:31,479 --> 02:14:33,920
that now he's mostly been a starter for a pretty

2919
02:14:33,920 --> 02:14:36,960
good Spurs team. But like, I don't know, with with

2920
02:14:36,960 --> 02:14:38,960
with Wemby, you sort of always have to be thinking

2921
02:14:38,960 --> 02:14:40,560
about like can we aim a little higher?

2922
02:14:40,680 --> 02:14:40,840
Speaker 1: Right?

2923
02:14:40,920 --> 02:14:42,800
Speaker 2: Like can we trade? Can we step ladder our way

2924
02:14:42,840 --> 02:14:47,600
to someone that's gonna be you know, no questions asked,

2925
02:14:47,680 --> 02:14:50,640
Like he's just he's part of this core. I like,

2926
02:14:50,960 --> 02:14:53,800
I think it's fair to be ambitious like that, Grant.

2927
02:14:53,600 --> 02:14:55,039
Speaker 1: Unless you have anything else to add, are you ready

2928
02:14:55,079 --> 02:14:55,800
to take us out of here?

2929
02:14:56,000 --> 02:14:58,119
Speaker 2: Yeah? I'm just happy to. We really fed the rumor

2930
02:14:58,159 --> 02:14:59,800
mill like we should. We should keep.

2931
02:14:59,720 --> 02:15:01,239
Speaker 1: Tracked created it. You're welcome.

2932
02:15:02,039 --> 02:15:04,880
Speaker 2: We we concocted a rumor mill out of names that

2933
02:15:04,920 --> 02:15:07,399
are not in it except for Fox, which we'll see.

2934
02:15:07,720 --> 02:15:10,720
Thanks everybody for listening, for watching. Please remember, if you

2935
02:15:10,760 --> 02:15:14,600
haven't already rate, review, subscribe, follow us on subscribe on

2936
02:15:14,640 --> 02:15:18,159
YouTube for sure. Leave some comments there, mention anybody we

2937
02:15:18,279 --> 02:15:20,920
didn't that that you're you have the same feeling we

2938
02:15:20,960 --> 02:15:22,399
do about how like why talk.

2939
02:15:22,279 --> 02:15:23,319
Speaker 1: About Julius Randall?

2940
02:15:23,960 --> 02:15:26,319
Speaker 2: Yeah? Well I think that's just I'm a one man

2941
02:15:26,479 --> 02:15:28,359
crusade of bench him, slash trade him.

2942
02:15:28,359 --> 02:15:30,800
Speaker 1: I don't want would you trade this? Is so?

2943
02:15:32,159 --> 02:15:35,319
Speaker 2: But you're gonna bring up Julius Randall. Mid outro.

2944
02:15:36,680 --> 02:15:39,640
Speaker 1: Julius. If you're Minnesota, would you do Julius Randall for

2945
02:15:39,720 --> 02:15:41,479
John Collins? Oh?

2946
02:15:41,520 --> 02:15:44,560
Speaker 2: Man? Wait, so but what does that help me? I

2947
02:15:44,680 --> 02:15:46,359
save like four million dollars this year?

2948
02:15:46,920 --> 02:15:50,079
Speaker 1: But I guess if you, if you're arguing as the

2949
02:15:50,079 --> 02:15:52,319
timberlves that you didn't trade Julius Randall just because you

2950
02:15:52,319 --> 02:15:55,600
think he's coming off the books? Yeah, doesn't John Collins

2951
02:15:55,600 --> 02:15:58,279
make more sense for what this team needs than Julius Randall?

2952
02:15:58,520 --> 02:16:01,079
Speaker 2: I mean, actually yeah, he kind of. Maybe you get

2953
02:16:01,079 --> 02:16:03,199
a pick? Well, why is why is Utah want Julius

2954
02:16:03,279 --> 02:16:04,199
Randall just because.

2955
02:16:04,039 --> 02:16:06,039
Speaker 1: Maybe they want to get the money off the books?

2956
02:16:07,039 --> 02:16:08,520
Speaker 2: This is where we are with Julius Randall.

2957
02:16:08,600 --> 02:16:13,079
Speaker 1: We just whoever I think Minnesota has like Detroit's second

2958
02:16:13,199 --> 02:16:14,880
or something. That's so maybe you're getting a good second

2959
02:16:14,920 --> 02:16:18,680
round pick plus Julius Randall expiring money for John Collins.

2960
02:16:20,439 --> 02:16:22,319
Speaker 2: What a world? What a world we live in?

2961
02:16:23,159 --> 02:16:24,000
Speaker 1: That one didn't? I?

2962
02:16:24,279 --> 02:16:27,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, you really did. I was ready to say no.

2963
02:16:27,159 --> 02:16:30,199
I mean, I'm about as low as on Randalls as

2964
02:16:30,239 --> 02:16:33,040
anybody it could be. But I was once there with

2965
02:16:33,079 --> 02:16:35,319
John Collins, So I don't know, let's maybe they just

2966
02:16:35,399 --> 02:16:38,879
exchange problems those two teams. Do you have anything else

2967
02:16:38,920 --> 02:16:40,600
now that you're out you want to get? Do you

2968
02:16:40,639 --> 02:16:42,760
want to talk about it? Dante de Vincenzo trade Well

2969
02:16:46,239 --> 02:16:48,399
Rate Reviews, subscribe to all that stuff, Tell your friends,

2970
02:16:48,399 --> 02:16:50,079
tell your enemies, and we have to get out of here.

2971
02:16:50,120 --> 02:16:52,760
With the apology to a shout out to Frank milla Keton,

2972
02:16:52,760 --> 02:16:54,959
an apology to Jared Allen before Dan comes up with

2973
02:16:55,040 --> 02:16:56,559
someone else to discuss trade it