WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.440 --> 00:00:02.839 Start things off on a Tuesday afternoon with one of 2 00:00:02.879 --> 00:00:06.320 my favorite guests now a podcaster, Kyle Bonna Gera. 3 00:00:06.400 --> 00:00:08.000 Kyle, Happy Tuesday, sir. How are you. 4 00:00:08.960 --> 00:00:10.240 I'm doing great, Spence are you? 5 00:00:10.359 --> 00:00:12.679 I'm well? So let's start with your new project. 6 00:00:12.839 --> 00:00:17.079 And I recall hearing about this, but now as a 7 00:00:17.079 --> 00:00:19.800 result of you know, I read the entire piece that 8 00:00:19.839 --> 00:00:23.079 you and Adam did this morning. When I saw you 9 00:00:23.120 --> 00:00:25.039 were going to be on I pulled this up. So 10 00:00:25.199 --> 00:00:28.480 Paul Wolfe's mother, of course, Paul was the head coach 11 00:00:28.679 --> 00:00:31.359 of Washington State for a number of years. Dolores wolf 12 00:00:32.200 --> 00:00:37.079 disappeared in July of nineteen seventy nine, and it is 13 00:00:37.159 --> 00:00:40.000 quite a fascinating story that I'm not sure how many 14 00:00:40.039 --> 00:00:43.079 people are fully aware of. So let's go back to 15 00:00:43.119 --> 00:00:45.119 the origin story kind of when you heard about this, 16 00:00:45.240 --> 00:00:47.399 and then why you and Adam decided to do this 17 00:00:47.600 --> 00:00:48.359 entire project. 18 00:00:49.320 --> 00:00:51.719 Yeah, no, thanks for willing to chat about it. We're 19 00:00:51.759 --> 00:00:54.479 really excited about the project. So I think the most 20 00:00:54.520 --> 00:00:56.520 obvious place to start, just for your listeners is that 21 00:00:57.399 --> 00:00:59.079 Paul wolf is now the head coach at cal Pauly, 22 00:00:59.640 --> 00:01:02.320 who Utah will will host its first home game this year. 23 00:01:02.359 --> 00:01:05.000 So a little bit of a Utah youth connection. It 24 00:01:05.079 --> 00:01:09.439 fro from the jump here. So in twenty twenty, Adam 25 00:01:09.480 --> 00:01:10.719 and I were kind of, you know, going through the 26 00:01:10.760 --> 00:01:13.400 COVID motions, right, were trying to report about college football 27 00:01:13.439 --> 00:01:16.680 during during that weird season, and he received a tip 28 00:01:16.879 --> 00:01:20.400 that he saw this interesting story about Paul Wolfe and 29 00:01:20.000 --> 00:01:22.239 it's it's something about his mother. And so he's like, hey, 30 00:01:22.239 --> 00:01:24.280 this is kind of interesting. We should we should look 31 00:01:24.280 --> 00:01:27.599 into this. And so the short version is that when 32 00:01:27.640 --> 00:01:30.840 Paul Wolfe was was twelve years old, He's the youngest 33 00:01:30.879 --> 00:01:35.560 of four children. One night, his mother disappeared, never was 34 00:01:35.599 --> 00:01:39.319 seen or heard from again. Almost immediately, his father was 35 00:01:39.359 --> 00:01:41.359 telling both him and his other brother who was still 36 00:01:41.439 --> 00:01:44.000 living at the house, that she was she was gone, 37 00:01:44.040 --> 00:01:46.879 and she was never coming back. It emerged very quickly 38 00:01:46.920 --> 00:01:50.280 that he was the primary suspect in her disappearance. But 39 00:01:50.400 --> 00:01:52.959 three number of factors, you know, they weren't able to 40 00:01:53.000 --> 00:01:57.400 ever prosecute him. He's never you know, never never went 41 00:01:57.599 --> 00:02:02.079 before a jury to face an HR. But you know, 42 00:02:02.120 --> 00:02:04.359 it really impacted the trajectory of his life. Of course, right, 43 00:02:04.400 --> 00:02:06.000 he moves out of his house and his dad he 44 00:02:06.079 --> 00:02:09.719 effectively lost both parents when this happens, is raised by 45 00:02:09.759 --> 00:02:12.240 his aunt and uncle, a really fascinating uncle who's had 46 00:02:12.280 --> 00:02:14.599 a crazy military career that we get into as well. 47 00:02:15.199 --> 00:02:18.120 And then forty one years later, in the summer of 48 00:02:18.879 --> 00:02:21.919 twenty twenty, a cold case detective in the Bay area 49 00:02:21.960 --> 00:02:23.879 and near where I live, you know, it's kind of 50 00:02:23.879 --> 00:02:26.319 tipped off about another case and went down this went 51 00:02:26.319 --> 00:02:29.000 down this rabbit hole and eventually determined that Paul will 52 00:02:29.039 --> 00:02:33.800 Smother had been found just six weeks after she went missing, 53 00:02:34.520 --> 00:02:36.479 but no one was able to identify her. She had 54 00:02:36.520 --> 00:02:40.960 been in cemetery one county over for four decades, and 55 00:02:41.240 --> 00:02:43.680 they were able to do DNA testing through Paul to 56 00:02:43.680 --> 00:02:46.479 make the determination that this, this woman who had only 57 00:02:46.479 --> 00:02:50.240 been identified an unmarked grave as Jane does sixteen, was 58 00:02:50.280 --> 00:02:54.080 in fact his mother. It's a crazy story. We wrote 59 00:02:54.080 --> 00:02:57.439 about it in twenty twenty twenty one for ESPN where 60 00:02:57.439 --> 00:02:59.960 we kind of outlined the whole process and there was 61 00:03:00.039 --> 00:03:03.520 a lot of just wild stuff that happened. There's just 62 00:03:03.520 --> 00:03:05.479 too much to get into, but like it was the 63 00:03:05.479 --> 00:03:07.560 most incredible story that Adam and I heard had ever 64 00:03:07.599 --> 00:03:11.000 worked on, and so we published the story. It was 65 00:03:11.080 --> 00:03:12.919 very much through the lens of Paul and this coach. 66 00:03:13.039 --> 00:03:15.199 It is in the ESPN story, but there was so 67 00:03:15.280 --> 00:03:17.520 much more to it that we couldn't get into in 68 00:03:17.599 --> 00:03:20.680 our story. It was a story that we both felt 69 00:03:20.680 --> 00:03:25.479 deeply deserved to be told more broadly to a wider 70 00:03:25.520 --> 00:03:28.439 audience interesting trips of like not not sports fans specifically, 71 00:03:28.759 --> 00:03:31.879 and so ESPN, with it with its blessing, allowed us 72 00:03:31.919 --> 00:03:34.240 to pursue the project kind of on the side of 73 00:03:34.360 --> 00:03:36.800 the podcast, and so over the past year or so, 74 00:03:36.919 --> 00:03:38.400 a little bit more than a year, we've been kind 75 00:03:38.400 --> 00:03:40.479 of working on it in our free time, and the 76 00:03:40.520 --> 00:03:44.280 first episode of the podcast was released yesterday. It's called 77 00:03:44.360 --> 00:03:47.599 The Unforgotten. It's season three of a pre existing podcast, 78 00:03:47.639 --> 00:03:50.360 and the season is called Finding Dolores Wolf. 79 00:03:51.240 --> 00:03:53.240 Yeah, it's a gripping story. 80 00:03:53.599 --> 00:03:56.319 I mean, the written portion that I read starts out 81 00:03:56.360 --> 00:03:59.319 with Paul as a young man, and the way you 82 00:03:59.360 --> 00:04:01.360 framed it was great because it was just one of 83 00:04:01.400 --> 00:04:03.240 those things that the gripshoot to the point where you 84 00:04:03.319 --> 00:04:05.199 want to want to read the entire thing. In March 85 00:04:05.199 --> 00:04:08.560 of eighty five, Paul, who was eighteen, had been summoned 86 00:04:08.560 --> 00:04:14.520 to a meeting to confront the suspect in his mother's murder, 87 00:04:14.560 --> 00:04:17.120 and then you revealed that the suspect is his father. 88 00:04:18.480 --> 00:04:21.920 And I can't imagine what that's like when you're eighteen 89 00:04:22.000 --> 00:04:24.759 years old and you're asked to sit across your father 90 00:04:24.959 --> 00:04:27.120 to try to dig for information to find out whether 91 00:04:27.199 --> 00:04:30.120 or not he's the one that actually is responsible for 92 00:04:30.240 --> 00:04:33.519 the mother's disappearance. I mean it is written through the 93 00:04:33.600 --> 00:04:36.560 lens of Paul and excited to listen to the pod, 94 00:04:37.240 --> 00:04:39.360 But how would you say all of this kind of 95 00:04:39.439 --> 00:04:43.319 shaped him? And you know, through the lens of what 96 00:04:43.439 --> 00:04:46.079 he became, which is a high level player in college 97 00:04:46.079 --> 00:04:47.040 and then of course a coach. 98 00:04:48.560 --> 00:04:51.720 You know, I think it's it's foundational and who he 99 00:04:51.759 --> 00:04:54.399 became as a person. Right. You can't live through something 100 00:04:54.439 --> 00:04:56.600 as traumatic as that and not having any impact to you, 101 00:04:56.680 --> 00:04:58.920 like to your core, right, And I think it started 102 00:04:59.160 --> 00:05:01.120 and I talked a lot about this with Paul over 103 00:05:01.120 --> 00:05:04.680 the years. You know, he moved in with his uncle 104 00:05:04.680 --> 00:05:06.759 and aunt who I mentioned earlier, this guy who was 105 00:05:06.759 --> 00:05:09.759 a Vietnam that a really interesting guy who we have 106 00:05:09.800 --> 00:05:13.199 a whole episode devoted to, Like his military career is 107 00:05:13.319 --> 00:05:16.120 just crazy. That's episode four US, so look forward to that. 108 00:05:16.399 --> 00:05:17.560 But he was like, he was a guy who was 109 00:05:17.639 --> 00:05:19.639 very involved in the community as a coach, like coach 110 00:05:19.680 --> 00:05:22.759 little league baseball, you know, youth softball, was involved in 111 00:05:22.879 --> 00:05:25.759 slow pitch softball recreationally, like just like coached all his 112 00:05:25.879 --> 00:05:28.240 kids in all their sports. Was you know, he he 113 00:05:28.319 --> 00:05:30.839 estimated that he you know, coached maybe five thousand kids 114 00:05:30.839 --> 00:05:33.519 over the course of his life in this community. And 115 00:05:34.680 --> 00:05:37.759 being raised by someone like that after you know, after 116 00:05:38.040 --> 00:05:40.800 the separation of his immediate family, the guy kind of 117 00:05:40.800 --> 00:05:42.720 stepped in as his protector at a time when he 118 00:05:42.759 --> 00:05:45.319 really needed it. Right, those are foundational years for anyone, right, 119 00:05:45.360 --> 00:05:47.560 but for someone who's twelve and goes through what he 120 00:05:47.639 --> 00:05:49.839 went through, now this is the mentor figure. 121 00:05:50.040 --> 00:05:50.240 You know. 122 00:05:50.319 --> 00:05:52.839 He treated Paul like a son who was a better 123 00:05:52.879 --> 00:05:55.839 father than his actual father had ever been. And so 124 00:05:55.920 --> 00:05:59.160 I think he gravitated towards coaching and being around the 125 00:05:59.199 --> 00:06:02.560 team and having that camaraderie. And then I think what 126 00:06:02.680 --> 00:06:05.800 kind of stands out to me after talking with Paul 127 00:06:05.800 --> 00:06:08.120 about it, is like, look, he's very he feels like 128 00:06:08.120 --> 00:06:10.480 he can really relate to a lot of what these 129 00:06:10.560 --> 00:06:12.879 kids are going through and have the perspective of like 130 00:06:12.920 --> 00:06:15.120 football is very important right, that's why they're all there. 131 00:06:15.160 --> 00:06:17.120 It's it's a big part of everyone's life who's involved 132 00:06:17.120 --> 00:06:19.439 in these high level teams. But there's other stuff going 133 00:06:19.480 --> 00:06:22.399 on in everyone's life, and it's it's tough at times, right, 134 00:06:22.439 --> 00:06:27.399 And so he's very sympathetic to family struggles and outside 135 00:06:27.399 --> 00:06:30.279 of like, you know, whatever somebody's dealing with, and being 136 00:06:30.399 --> 00:06:33.079 kind of accepting of them and being able to kind 137 00:06:33.079 --> 00:06:34.600 of relate to them in those ways. And so I 138 00:06:34.600 --> 00:06:37.920 think all of those elements that he went through, like 139 00:06:37.959 --> 00:06:40.560 he like, formed him and allowed him to kind of 140 00:06:40.800 --> 00:06:43.759 have those deeply personal relationships with all of his players 141 00:06:43.759 --> 00:06:44.279 and coaches. 142 00:06:44.879 --> 00:06:48.600 So one of the well, several interesting portions of this. 143 00:06:49.439 --> 00:06:54.639 But the connection about his mother's body having been found 144 00:06:54.759 --> 00:06:57.959 was made by a lady named Stacy Sherman who was 145 00:06:58.000 --> 00:07:00.680 looking for additional victims of the Golden State Killer, a 146 00:07:00.680 --> 00:07:04.360 man named Joseph James DeAngelo, who was arrested in twenty 147 00:07:04.439 --> 00:07:06.000 eighteen on eight counts of murder. 148 00:07:06.639 --> 00:07:08.519 Were there, ever, any other. 149 00:07:08.439 --> 00:07:12.160 Suspects outside of Carl Paul's father or did this appear 150 00:07:12.199 --> 00:07:14.040 to be Okay, this is just one person and we 151 00:07:14.120 --> 00:07:16.160 just don't have enough evidence to pin him down. 152 00:07:17.079 --> 00:07:21.319 Yeah, it was very clear to anyone who was around then, 153 00:07:21.439 --> 00:07:25.240 And we did extensive interviews with the investigator at the time, 154 00:07:25.399 --> 00:07:28.160 the district training at the time, lots of family members, 155 00:07:28.199 --> 00:07:31.959 like many many hours like kind of looking into that possibility, 156 00:07:32.000 --> 00:07:35.439 and like everyone knew, the community knew, the family knew, 157 00:07:35.519 --> 00:07:38.199 the police knew, the district attorney knew, everyone knew who 158 00:07:38.240 --> 00:07:40.600 did it. But at that time it was just, you know, 159 00:07:40.759 --> 00:07:44.920 getting a murder conviction without a body was almost impossible 160 00:07:45.040 --> 00:07:47.560 at that point in time, Like there was physical evidence 161 00:07:47.600 --> 00:07:50.680 tied to it. There was blood on a blanket, there 162 00:07:50.759 --> 00:07:52.839 was like her missing earing was found in the trunk. 163 00:07:52.879 --> 00:07:56.120 There was like enough there. But the DA and we 164 00:07:56.240 --> 00:07:58.519 discussed this with him fairly recently, Like it was a 165 00:07:58.560 --> 00:08:01.720 lot of circumstantial stuff. They made the decision at a 166 00:08:01.720 --> 00:08:04.319 certain point to like, well, let's keep looking for the 167 00:08:04.360 --> 00:08:06.480 body and hopefully we find it. And then once we 168 00:08:06.519 --> 00:08:09.000 have the body, it's a slam dunk, but without it, 169 00:08:09.040 --> 00:08:12.160 we think he'll probably walk. And so what actually happens 170 00:08:12.199 --> 00:08:16.079 is the six years go by with no arrest, and 171 00:08:16.120 --> 00:08:18.519 so finally the family is fed up and so they 172 00:08:18.959 --> 00:08:21.120 push They pushed the envelope a little bit and take 173 00:08:21.160 --> 00:08:23.839 the case to the Attorney General in the state of California, 174 00:08:24.079 --> 00:08:26.000 who looks at the evidence is like, yeah, there's enough 175 00:08:26.000 --> 00:08:28.199 to year to pursue a murder charge. We'll go ahead 176 00:08:28.199 --> 00:08:30.000 and handle it if the local BA doesn't want to, 177 00:08:30.480 --> 00:08:32.639 And so at that point Yolo County, which is north 178 00:08:32.639 --> 00:08:35.919 of California, outside of Sacramento, it says, okay, they didn't 179 00:08:35.960 --> 00:08:38.559 want to be bigfooted by the Attorney General's office and 180 00:08:38.759 --> 00:08:41.559 kind of relents and says, okay, we'll prosecute the case. 181 00:08:41.600 --> 00:08:45.399 So the fire is eventually arrested and there's you know, 182 00:08:45.679 --> 00:08:51.399 weeks of you know, evidentiary hearings in front of a 183 00:08:51.519 --> 00:08:54.080 judge to determine if the case could go to trial. 184 00:08:54.440 --> 00:08:58.039 And what the judge ruled is that because they took 185 00:08:58.120 --> 00:09:01.720 six years to charge him with order, they violated his 186 00:09:01.840 --> 00:09:05.720 right to a speedy trial, and therefore the case could 187 00:09:05.720 --> 00:09:07.840 not proceed. So it wasn't anything about the evidence, it 188 00:09:07.919 --> 00:09:10.720 wasn't anything about he wasn't proved innocent. It was really 189 00:09:10.720 --> 00:09:13.960 just a technicality that let him walk and that's why 190 00:09:14.000 --> 00:09:16.080 he never never faced justice. 191 00:09:16.240 --> 00:09:20.080 One portion also alludes to the fact that Carl Paul's 192 00:09:20.080 --> 00:09:23.159 father tried to come back into his life later on, 193 00:09:23.559 --> 00:09:26.480 when Paul was a college football player and a coach. 194 00:09:28.000 --> 00:09:32.759 Did that connection ever manifest anything lasting? Was Paul ever 195 00:09:32.840 --> 00:09:35.399 open to trying to have a relationship with his father 196 00:09:35.399 --> 00:09:36.879 when he tried to come back into his life. 197 00:09:37.960 --> 00:09:41.080 No, So like the last time they ever they ever 198 00:09:41.200 --> 00:09:45.080 met or they ever spoken person was in nineteen I believe, 199 00:09:45.159 --> 00:09:47.399 nineteen eighty eight. And so Paul is a player at 200 00:09:47.440 --> 00:09:50.240 Washington State and it might be in the year's rock, 201 00:09:50.279 --> 00:09:52.080 but that the story is the same. Like did they 202 00:09:52.080 --> 00:09:54.759 had played Ucla? Ucla was the number one team in 203 00:09:54.759 --> 00:09:56.919 the country at the time. Washington State was a middle 204 00:09:56.919 --> 00:09:59.120 of the road team. Went to the rose Bult and 205 00:09:59.159 --> 00:10:01.120 beat UCLA up at the number one team in the country. 206 00:10:01.120 --> 00:10:03.039 Big deal, right obviously for Paul, for the team, all 207 00:10:03.080 --> 00:10:05.759 of that, And outside the locker room after the game, 208 00:10:05.919 --> 00:10:08.120 his dad was there. He had come to the game. 209 00:10:08.600 --> 00:10:11.240 He wanted to see him, and so Paul, you know, 210 00:10:11.240 --> 00:10:12.879 gave him a couple of minutes. Since the day it's 211 00:10:12.879 --> 00:10:15.240 probably not a good idea for you to be here. 212 00:10:15.320 --> 00:10:17.000 A lot of his you know, friends and family were 213 00:10:17.039 --> 00:10:19.480 there and he was persented Mangrad around the family. It 214 00:10:19.519 --> 00:10:22.120 was like, basically, you need to leave and He's like, well, 215 00:10:22.159 --> 00:10:23.240 I want to have more to do with you in 216 00:10:23.240 --> 00:10:24.840 your life, and Paul's like, look and tell you, tell 217 00:10:24.879 --> 00:10:27.120 me more about what happened to my mother. We're not 218 00:10:27.159 --> 00:10:29.159 going to have a relationship. And that was the last 219 00:10:29.159 --> 00:10:31.240 time they ever saw each other in person. There was 220 00:10:31.279 --> 00:10:33.559 one more phone call to following the spring between Paul 221 00:10:33.559 --> 00:10:35.399 and his father about hey, like kind of one last 222 00:10:35.440 --> 00:10:38.720 chance to try to solvage the relationship from his father's perspective, 223 00:10:38.799 --> 00:10:41.200 but you know, they never talked again after that, so 224 00:10:41.360 --> 00:10:44.240 it was it was less several decades of the man's 225 00:10:44.279 --> 00:10:46.200 life and Paul had no contact with him. 226 00:10:46.720 --> 00:10:51.720 You referenced the uncle who does manifest himself throughout the 227 00:10:52.240 --> 00:10:55.320 written portion of what I've read here as a very 228 00:10:55.440 --> 00:11:01.320 very interesting, interesting guy. Slick was his nickname, and you know, 229 00:11:01.679 --> 00:11:05.360 he and others were pretty hell bent on making sure 230 00:11:05.399 --> 00:11:08.759 that Carl did not enjoy his existence at all, even 231 00:11:08.759 --> 00:11:10.720 while he was a free man. Can you elaborate on 232 00:11:10.759 --> 00:11:12.919 some of the things that they did to him to 233 00:11:13.000 --> 00:11:15.840 just try Yeah, yeah, absolutely. 234 00:11:15.320 --> 00:11:16.679 And this is some of my favorite part of the 235 00:11:16.759 --> 00:11:18.759 of the story. And we have got a couple of 236 00:11:18.799 --> 00:11:20.919 episodes devoted to this stuff. So episode three will be 237 00:11:21.399 --> 00:11:23.440 basically all the all the stuff they did to this 238 00:11:23.559 --> 00:11:25.240 man crazy and drive him out of town. And the 239 00:11:25.279 --> 00:11:28.200 fourth episode is basically a you know, we profile Slick 240 00:11:28.240 --> 00:11:30.559 and he's just incredible. We spent some time with him 241 00:11:30.960 --> 00:11:34.080 at his apartment. He's telling us wild stories. But so anyways, 242 00:11:34.120 --> 00:11:38.320 they're basically the family that there had a large Portuguese 243 00:11:38.360 --> 00:11:40.840 family who all lived in the community. Carl had no 244 00:11:40.960 --> 00:11:42.759 family in the area, so he was surrounded by her 245 00:11:42.799 --> 00:11:46.360 family in this small town outside Sacramento. And after she 246 00:11:46.399 --> 00:11:49.080 went miss me, they I mean, they made his life 247 00:11:49.159 --> 00:11:52.120 a living hell. I mean, they would cut off his power. 248 00:11:52.240 --> 00:11:54.879 They would write like murder on his garage on his 249 00:11:54.919 --> 00:11:58.120 garage door, and animal blood. They would grow dead animal 250 00:11:58.159 --> 00:12:01.000 carcasses on his on his law of his property. They 251 00:12:01.039 --> 00:12:03.440 would chase him out of grocery stores, they would stalk 252 00:12:03.519 --> 00:12:05.919 him around town. At one point there was a jar 253 00:12:05.960 --> 00:12:10.240 of urn that they threw through his living room window 254 00:12:10.360 --> 00:12:12.840 into his into his house. I mean, they really they 255 00:12:12.879 --> 00:12:16.480 really pushed the envelope, stopping short of physical violence. Certainly 256 00:12:16.720 --> 00:12:19.039 a lot of it would have, you know, been illegal 257 00:12:19.080 --> 00:12:20.600 in its own right or what they were doing just 258 00:12:20.600 --> 00:12:23.960 intimidating this man. But again, like everyone knew he was 259 00:12:24.000 --> 00:12:26.960 responsible for her disappearance and likely her murder at that time. 260 00:12:27.039 --> 00:12:29.799 So the police in town basically looked the other way 261 00:12:29.799 --> 00:12:31.519 and let them kind of have their way with this guy, 262 00:12:31.600 --> 00:12:34.440 because you know, they felt, you know, like the police 263 00:12:34.440 --> 00:12:36.919 in the small town felt like this guy should face justice, 264 00:12:36.919 --> 00:12:38.279 and if this is all they're going to be able 265 00:12:38.320 --> 00:12:40.120 to do, then they were kind of happy to look 266 00:12:40.240 --> 00:12:43.039 look the other way. And then this guy slicked the 267 00:12:43.159 --> 00:12:46.320 uncle of Doris's Doris's brother, who they had a really 268 00:12:46.360 --> 00:12:48.320 tight relationship. Then we get into that in the pod. 269 00:12:49.559 --> 00:12:52.639 He was someone who, before the Vietnam War had really 270 00:12:52.639 --> 00:12:55.559 broken out into a full scale war, was in the 271 00:12:55.559 --> 00:12:58.960 one hundred and first Airborne Division of the Army and 272 00:12:59.080 --> 00:13:03.960 had been parachuting in under the cover of darkness, you know, 273 00:13:06.120 --> 00:13:09.000 assassinating enemy years before the war had broken out. He 274 00:13:09.080 --> 00:13:12.399 was killing people with his bare hands. This is I 275 00:13:12.440 --> 00:13:15.840 guess maybe a little violent disclaimer here, Like there was 276 00:13:15.879 --> 00:13:18.320 like a lot of stuff that was really graphic that 277 00:13:18.399 --> 00:13:20.159 he described with us, and we get into that on 278 00:13:20.200 --> 00:13:21.840 the pod. So here's the guy who was responsible for 279 00:13:21.879 --> 00:13:23.679 a lot of death on his own as a member 280 00:13:23.679 --> 00:13:26.080 of the as a member of the military, and he 281 00:13:26.120 --> 00:13:28.480 did that. He did all this like in like he 282 00:13:28.600 --> 00:13:30.360 was conditioned to believe it's in service of the country. 283 00:13:30.399 --> 00:13:30.519 Right. 284 00:13:30.519 --> 00:13:33.200 You can understand this is the fifties, right, That's that's 285 00:13:33.240 --> 00:13:35.480 like what he was assigned to do, right, And so 286 00:13:35.600 --> 00:13:37.360 he executed the cast that he was told to do, 287 00:13:37.440 --> 00:13:40.039 but still took a real toll on him. And what 288 00:13:40.120 --> 00:13:41.960 he told us is that or he told his son, 289 00:13:42.320 --> 00:13:43.960 is that he would have to get work himself into 290 00:13:43.960 --> 00:13:46.279 a frenzy to be able to do these, like these 291 00:13:46.480 --> 00:13:48.879 acts for the military. He would have to. He told 292 00:13:48.919 --> 00:13:51.399 him that he had to pretend like these people were 293 00:13:51.399 --> 00:13:53.759 harming his sister, and then he would get he would 294 00:13:53.799 --> 00:13:55.600 get into a state of mind where he's able to 295 00:13:55.639 --> 00:13:57.399 kind of act in the way that they asked him to. 296 00:13:57.720 --> 00:13:59.399 And then he gets back to the United States after 297 00:13:59.440 --> 00:14:01.600 going through all of this, and then his sister really 298 00:14:01.679 --> 00:14:05.159 is taking from his life. He knows who's responsible for 299 00:14:05.279 --> 00:14:07.639 doing it, and showed had to you know, had to 300 00:14:07.639 --> 00:14:10.120 show some restraint. And it was tough because he he 301 00:14:10.200 --> 00:14:12.480 told us, and this is all laid out in the interview, 302 00:14:12.559 --> 00:14:15.279 is like he thought about, you know, exacting revenge on 303 00:14:15.360 --> 00:14:18.360 him and told a few graphic stories about plans they 304 00:14:18.360 --> 00:14:21.799 had to to torture Carl wolf and get some answers 305 00:14:21.799 --> 00:14:24.000 out of him. He decided ultimately not to go through 306 00:14:24.120 --> 00:14:26.240 that because he made the choice to raise Paul Wolfe 307 00:14:26.279 --> 00:14:29.639 and his brother. It was a real kind of inflection 308 00:14:29.679 --> 00:14:32.919 point in all of their lives. But it was like morally, 309 00:14:33.200 --> 00:14:35.440 he always he felt like he was kind of sealed. 310 00:14:35.600 --> 00:14:38.440 He religious guy, and kind of what's done is done. 311 00:14:38.519 --> 00:14:42.240 What's one more? It won't affect me, you know, ultimately, right, 312 00:14:42.279 --> 00:14:44.240 It is kind of where his mindset was so really 313 00:14:44.279 --> 00:14:47.080 fascinating characters, a lot of really good storytellers throughout the family. 314 00:14:47.080 --> 00:14:50.159 And I think that's the podcast medium was really the 315 00:14:50.159 --> 00:14:52.559 perfect way to text you, hut this story. 316 00:14:52.919 --> 00:14:54.519 Last thing on this, Kyle, then we'll do a couple 317 00:14:54.559 --> 00:14:57.039 of other things for us that you lose. As if 318 00:14:57.240 --> 00:15:01.039 losing your mother allegedly at the hands of your father 319 00:15:01.320 --> 00:15:04.200 as a young man wasn't enough of a tragedy to 320 00:15:04.279 --> 00:15:08.480 handle throughout one's life. Paul Wolfe was handed another very, 321 00:15:08.559 --> 00:15:11.960 very tough blow as his wife, Tammy, in nineteen ninety 322 00:15:12.000 --> 00:15:15.759 seven was diagnosed with a brain tumor and was given 323 00:15:15.759 --> 00:15:18.120 three to five years to live, and she later on 324 00:15:18.240 --> 00:15:21.159 passed in March of two thousand and two. I always 325 00:15:21.240 --> 00:15:23.720 find if I always find it interesting when you hear 326 00:15:23.960 --> 00:15:26.320 stories behind people that you only know of as like 327 00:15:26.440 --> 00:15:29.399 a coach or a player or someone with some sort 328 00:15:29.399 --> 00:15:32.240 of notoriety. I mean, I don't know that I really 329 00:15:32.240 --> 00:15:34.080 have a question, but this is just another piece of 330 00:15:34.120 --> 00:15:35.960 the Paul Wolf puzzle that I think deserves to be 331 00:15:36.039 --> 00:15:36.519 talked about. 332 00:15:36.559 --> 00:15:40.080 You know, you know, he's really like I think, because 333 00:15:40.240 --> 00:15:42.879 he had such a high profile stint at Washington State 334 00:15:43.120 --> 00:15:45.240 that did not go well, right, They had the record, 335 00:15:45.360 --> 00:15:47.879 His record there was not good. It was historically bad 336 00:15:47.919 --> 00:15:50.720 in fact, but I think like he was so hardened 337 00:15:50.720 --> 00:15:52.519 by these scenes that he had gone through his life 338 00:15:52.600 --> 00:15:54.320 that just the fact that he was able to become 339 00:15:54.320 --> 00:15:56.519 a head coach of Easter Washington. It was the head 340 00:15:56.519 --> 00:15:58.399 coach at his alma mater, where he tried to clean 341 00:15:58.440 --> 00:16:00.879 up a mess. I mean, he certainly had the program 342 00:16:00.879 --> 00:16:03.159 in much better shape to hand off to Mike Leach 343 00:16:03.240 --> 00:16:06.440 than when he inherited it from Bildoba. It was just 344 00:16:06.600 --> 00:16:08.360 kind of in shambles when he got there. They didn't 345 00:16:08.360 --> 00:16:09.960 really have a chance. But I think a lot of 346 00:16:10.000 --> 00:16:12.720 people just formulated their opinion based on those years and 347 00:16:12.759 --> 00:16:14.679 the win loss right, and you didn't hear about what 348 00:16:14.799 --> 00:16:18.279 this guy had had gone through getting to that point, right, 349 00:16:18.480 --> 00:16:20.919 And so I gained a ton of respect for Paul 350 00:16:21.200 --> 00:16:23.000 over the last several years getting to know him and 351 00:16:23.080 --> 00:16:26.360 learning about him and his family. They have, everything they 352 00:16:26.399 --> 00:16:28.799 went through and how they banded together. The story is 353 00:16:28.840 --> 00:16:31.279 really it's a true crime story. It's a sort of 354 00:16:31.480 --> 00:16:33.480 search for a missing woman. But you know, I've been 355 00:16:33.480 --> 00:16:35.399 telling people, it's a story about a family and like 356 00:16:35.440 --> 00:16:39.360 this family bond that was unbreakable in many ways, just 357 00:16:39.600 --> 00:16:43.440 the ties that they have the last is over several decades, 358 00:16:43.480 --> 00:16:47.279 all unified behind like this single cause is really impressive. 359 00:16:47.320 --> 00:16:49.559 And then for Paul to progress through all of that 360 00:16:49.679 --> 00:16:51.919 and be very successful, like the winds went there at 361 00:16:51.960 --> 00:16:54.480 Washington State, but he progressed through. He was on, you know, 362 00:16:54.639 --> 00:16:56.240 hard about stuff with the Niners when they went to 363 00:16:56.279 --> 00:16:58.480 the Super Bowl. He bounced around in college, and now 364 00:16:58.879 --> 00:17:02.200 he's back in the headshat Poly you're trying to resurrect 365 00:17:02.440 --> 00:17:05.119 that program as a head coach once again. So I'm 366 00:17:05.119 --> 00:17:07.400 glad he's got another opportunity to try to make the 367 00:17:07.440 --> 00:17:10.039 best of a of a cool situation down there at Cutler. 368 00:17:10.200 --> 00:17:12.799 It's the best way for people to find the pod. Kyle. 369 00:17:14.359 --> 00:17:17.519 Yeah, so it just called The Unforgotten Season three, Finding 370 00:17:17.559 --> 00:17:19.279 the Worst Wolf. It's anywhere, you know, It's on all 371 00:17:19.400 --> 00:17:22.279 podcast platforms, so anyone who's who's into the podcast scene 372 00:17:22.279 --> 00:17:25.440 should have no trouble finding it. I've tweeted a little 373 00:17:25.440 --> 00:17:27.359 bit about it, kind of broke out of my Twitter 374 00:17:27.400 --> 00:17:30.279 hibernation to promote it a bit. So they just want 375 00:17:30.319 --> 00:17:32.759 to find me on Twitter. You can easily navigate. But yeah, 376 00:17:32.799 --> 00:17:36.400 The Unforgotten Finding the Worst Wolf. Any googling, any searching, 377 00:17:36.480 --> 00:17:37.799 should be pretty easy to find. 378 00:17:37.920 --> 00:17:38.240 There you go. 379 00:17:38.319 --> 00:17:42.039 All right, let's move over to the Coach's bull that 380 00:17:42.200 --> 00:17:45.559 was released yesterday. My question is how much stock should 381 00:17:45.559 --> 00:17:48.680 anybody put into this? How serious of an endeavor is 382 00:17:48.680 --> 00:17:50.079 this for any college football coach? 383 00:17:51.119 --> 00:17:51.319 Yeah? 384 00:17:51.359 --> 00:17:54.079 Deeply, like deeply unseerious, Like if if you're like if 385 00:17:54.079 --> 00:17:57.559 there's twenty five teams ranked, or I forget, how many 386 00:17:57.599 --> 00:17:59.960 actually voting members there are, Like how many actual coaches 387 00:18:00.119 --> 00:18:02.480 is voted? Like the percentage is very low. It's a 388 00:18:02.519 --> 00:18:07.039 lot of sids like staffers, assistance, those sorts putting it together, 389 00:18:07.079 --> 00:18:09.160 and a lot of them are just looking at way 390 00:18:09.200 --> 00:18:11.480 too early lists and using that as a starting point, 391 00:18:11.519 --> 00:18:13.799 making a couple of adjustments just so it's not the same, right, 392 00:18:13.839 --> 00:18:16.079 this is like these people do not take this seriously. 393 00:18:17.119 --> 00:18:19.119 That being said, I love this stuff, like I love 394 00:18:19.160 --> 00:18:20.720 the scene where it starts. I think it's just like 395 00:18:20.799 --> 00:18:22.960 part of the part of the tradition of college football 396 00:18:22.960 --> 00:18:24.799 are a right, let's let's see where it moves and 397 00:18:24.799 --> 00:18:26.039 but looks like at the end of the year, and 398 00:18:26.039 --> 00:18:28.119 it's like nowhere near right, It's always going to be 399 00:18:28.319 --> 00:18:30.799 a lot different, I think in like in this era too, 400 00:18:31.920 --> 00:18:34.200 it's so much harder to predict it. Collegeable has always 401 00:18:34.200 --> 00:18:35.880