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Speaker 1: Latest interview of Elon Musk.

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Speaker 2: Elon, Welcome to JP Morgan's headquarters. You're on the fifty

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first floor, which is about the equivalent of the nowhere

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near where you go generally in space, but as high

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as we can get in New York City. But before

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we get started with you and Jamie, we had a

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very special guest that wanted to welcome you here this afternoon,

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and so your mother, May Musk, is here to welcome you.

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May please stand up.

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Speaker 3: I don't think you can see me or everybody here.

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Speaker 2: They can see you, yes, he can.

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Speaker 3: This is your part.

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Speaker 1: I actually can't see my mom, but I can hear

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her certainly.

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Speaker 4: Okay, how you are.

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Speaker 3: What I'd like to say is when you were three

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years old and I told people I have a genius son,

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they would roll their eyes.

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Speaker 4: And then.

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Speaker 3: I'm you, And then we said you wanted to start

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with rockets.

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Speaker 4: Then I rolled my eyes.

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Speaker 3: And then you did it. And so this is just

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a great party here and we're celebrating you.

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Speaker 4: Love you so much.

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Speaker 2: One please.

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Speaker 5: So let me Elon welcome you. It's a really privileged

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to have you here on this momentous occasion. It is

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new for us, but it's an important thing the trajectory

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of American innovation. We're here live thirty five hundred people

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of our top individual investors around the world in one

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hundred branches.

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Speaker 6: There are three hundred and fifty people here.

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Speaker 5: Three thousand, five hundred around the country. This is a

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very unique thing, by the way, because Elon has spoken

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to me about democratizing finance. This is part of it.

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Treating individual investors the same way institutions are treated, and

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hedge funds and all those things. My view is it's

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a wonderful thing to do. Elon very brave, by the way,

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because I would never let my mother.

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Speaker 6: Speak publicly when I was in there group. God knows

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what she would have said.

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Speaker 5: Actually, Elon is the Edison of our time. I remember

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visiting Elon in Tesla like fifteen years ago, a whole

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new way of building cars, vertical integration, which had not

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been anything remote what our car comers are doing.

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Speaker 6: Now. You have SpaceX.

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Speaker 5: I visited the SpaceX factory in California, and it's exceptional

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to have more than six hundred and fifty rockets. And

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you told me one today putting in the sales in

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space you have nine thousand or almost ten thousand Starlight

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Darlink sales up there. Starlink three is coming, which the

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whole new generation was hopefully will place some of these

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undersea cables. It's been an extraordinary twenty four years with

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watching Elon grow over time and now making a massive

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leap into the future. So welcome and coming here, Elon.

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I have ten questions for you, so I want to

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make sure I get to each one. Someone came from

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folks here. They're all important, but one just to start

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is why SpaceX public now? Because you had choices, you

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didn't have to why now.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I've been asked for many years about taking.

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Speaker 1: Space public, so it's probably been almost ten years that

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people have been suggesting to me that I should take

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SpaceX public. We've been positive cash flow for quite a

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long time, I think since around twenty fourteen twenty fifteen,

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and we've been self funding in fact in our private

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equity rounds, so they actually have not been fundraising rounds.

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They've been liquidity rounds for investors and employees because we

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give everyone at the company's stock, and SpaceX has actually bought.

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Speaker 4: Backstock in most of our sort of funding events.

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Speaker 1: So what's different about now is that it's a number

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of things, but we are embarking on a significant growth phase,

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like a capital growth phase, where we're we are going

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to put in orbit probably one hundred thousand satellites, probably

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over one hundred thousand satellites just for communications, and these

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will be the Version three and beyond versus Version two

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and Version.

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Speaker 4: One that are currently in.

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Speaker 1: Version three is depending on how you count it, ten

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to twenty times more capable than the Version two satellite.

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And there were three chips that the SpaceX chip design

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team taped out that are specific to this that are

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far beyond state of the art, which means it's one

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hundred times more bandwidth than the SpaceX stalling system currently offers,

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and also half the latency because the altitude will be

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about half altitude. I think it will actually be the

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highest bandwidth, the lowest latency means of communicating, and the

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future with AI and robots is actually going to require

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a lot more bandwidth than we currently use. Because you

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can imagine what's the bandwidth of a human. It's peak

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band with a human is a few hundred bits per second.

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Bandwidth of a computer it can be a trillion fits

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a second. So the appetite for bandwidth of AI, AI

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and robots is going to be enormous. And then we're

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also doing the AI data centers in space, which is

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another massive capital endeavor, but I think it would be

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the primary means by which AI can be expanded. It's

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increasingly difficult to build power plants on the ground that

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there are very few people who want a power plant

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in their backyard. So if we want to say, double

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the electricity usage of the United States, which is on

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average about five hundred gigawates, we would have to build

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about twice as many power plants, which I don't think

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people are most communities are not super excited about that.

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But actually, if we go to space, we can go

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far beyond the electricity generation of Earth. In fact, this

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is going to sound crazy, but you could actually increase

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harnessed energy by a factor of a million and still

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be using much less than a millionth of the Sun's energy.

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So current human civilization uses much less than a trillionth

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of the Sun's energy output.

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Speaker 4: It's just humbling to think about.

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Speaker 1: We're really a tiny when you see the true size

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of Earth relatives to the Sun, We're a tiny dust

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mode in a vast darkness, and the Sun is enormous.

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That the Sun is ninety nine point eight percent of

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old mass the Solar system, and most of the remaining

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zero point two percent is Jupiter. Sometimes people ask me,

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maybe going a little wide ranging in the sensor, But

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because you just asked me, why you're hearing aboulic now,

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I'm like talking about the Sun's out power output.

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Speaker 4: I'm a bit of a long winded answer. If I

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was an AI, you might tell me, you know, okay,

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But also it is important.

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Speaker 1: Some of these things are I'm important because fuel stares

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wondering what's the future of energy generation?

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Speaker 4: And I can say that it.

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Speaker 1: Is absolutely solo power, or maybe the better word for

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solar power is star power.

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Speaker 4: It's the power of a star.

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Speaker 1: And the crazy thing is that burnt all mass in

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the Solar system that was not the Sun, the amount

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of energy produced by the Sun would still round up

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to one hundred percent, because the Sun is ninety.

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Speaker 4: Nine point eight percent with the mass of the Solar system.

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Speaker 1: Even if you teleported two more jupiters from another somehow

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teleport too more jupiters from another solar system and burnt

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them too, the Sun would round up two hundred percent.

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It's so it's very much the sun, and you can

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you can scale to a million times both economy and

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space in terms of harness power, which is a good

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proxy economic output, and still be much less than a

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month of the Sun's energy, which is humbly really to

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think about how tiny we are and this is just

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one star among men.

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Speaker 4: So I guess it's just the tale. It would be.

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Speaker 1: We're embarking on a massive new growth phase and we

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need capital for that.

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Speaker 6: It's okay, okay. Number two.

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Speaker 1: And another thing is that the revenue, like I also

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feel pretty good about like the revenue projections. I mean,

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like like before, like liber revenue is a little unstable,

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but now I feel like the revenue is like much

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more predictable.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I learned. I always learned listening to you, I

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guarantee certainly. I mean you people hear about multiplanetary species,

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travels of space and one of the most exciting ideas

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in human history. Can you explain the bridge that you

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were you speak about. I heard you talk about from

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the Earth Earth to the Moon to Mars.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so you don't necessarily have to go through the

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Moon to get to Mars. I just think that we

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can build a self growing city on the Moon faster

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than we could do so on Mars. And there's also

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the potential if you say you want to scale far

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beyond what you can do from Earth, is that because

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the Moon has no atmosphere and about one sixth Earth's gravity,

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you can use an electromagnetic accelerator, a railgun or mass driver.

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Basically you don't need to use rockets to do AI

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data centers into deep space from the Moon. You can

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literally just shoot them like a railgun type of thing.

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And you can manufacture the solar and the radiators soul

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powered radiators on the Moon from Moon materials. That would

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allow scaling potentially to beyond one thousand terrawats a year,

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which is a truly staggering number.

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Speaker 4: Like I think we can do a thousand.

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Speaker 1: I think we can do probably somewhere around one terrawat

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per year of AI space compute from Earth, but we

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can do a thousand terroorids or more from the Moon.

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And like I said, we can also make a moon base.

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And I think it would be pretty pretty cool if

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you could vacation on the Moon. That would be the

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most epic vacation. Not everybody wants to go to the Moon,

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but I think a lot of people do. I think

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we're pretty pretty amazing that obviously, provided you could do

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so safely and come back safely and everything. But I

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think I think that will be possible in the future.

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And then Mars is another step beyond that. That's Mars

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is a whole planet and with gravity much closer to

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that of Earth's, and it has an atmosphere. I'll beat

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with an atmosphere, and if you warm up Mars, you

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could one day make Mars like Earth, meaning with liquid

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oceans and life and where you could walk outside without

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a spacesuit type of thing. So Mars is I call

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Mars a fixer upper of the planet, but it's got

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a lot of potential.

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Speaker 5: I mean, and we go to number three, but I

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never ever thought you'd be in the hospitality business.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, we should have Moon hotels anything, but yeah,

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Musk hotels like it could be.

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Speaker 4: Actually, you think of us more like we're kind of

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like the Union Pacific.

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Speaker 1: When they built the Union Pacific back in the day,

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people thought they were crazy because like, why are you

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trying to carry this all this cargo and people to California.

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No one's there, but now California is the biggest state

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in the country.

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Speaker 5: Not for long, but yeah, yeah, no, evitedly it's self defeating. Yes,

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so Starship, you're built in unbelievable ship. I think it's

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already had twelve flights I read. But obviously technical technically,

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it's just hard to do. What was some of the

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breaks things you have that people should know about they

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don't know about.

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Speaker 1: Our webcasts are very good, so I recommend anyone who

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wants if they want to learn about smarts Starship SpaceX

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website or any of the Starship life.

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Speaker 4: Casts are a great way to learn about it.

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Speaker 1: But the really the fundamental breakthrough of Starship is that

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it will be the first val rocket that is fully reusable.

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So this might sound like an obvious thing, but because

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in every other mode of transport, whether that's aircraft, cars, bicycles, horses,

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you name it, ships, these are all we take it

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for granted that they are reusable. An aircraft journey would

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be very expensive if you had to throw the plane

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away every time, and that's how rockets have.

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Speaker 4: Been in the past.

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Speaker 1: But it's very difficult from a technology standpoint to achieve

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full reusability for a rocket. We've got part of the

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way there with Falcon nine, but we'll get all the

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way there with Starship, and once you're chief full reusability,

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then it's simply a cost.

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Speaker 4: It's simply the cost of access.

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Speaker 1: To orbit is just the cost of propellant, because now

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you can reuse all aspects of the vehicle, and the

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propellant we used for Starship is liquid oxygen and liquid

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liquid methane, which is the chiefest propellant you could possibly get.

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We can just literally get oxygen from the air and

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methane from natural gas. So the cost of propellant for

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Starship will be less than the cost of jet aviation fuel,

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which means that you should be able to actually send

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cogo to space for less than the cost of cargo

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on an airplane going on a transoceanic trip.

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Speaker 5: Starlink another thing that has been amazing Global Communications already

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mentioned Ukraine. You had mentioned to me that V three

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would maybe be able to replace something cyber cables, which,

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by the way, it is a huge security rich for

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all of us because some have already been cut in

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the Baltic Sea. So which the next view for starlink

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both V three and maybe V four.

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Speaker 6: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So the V three satellite is ag and you can

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look it up on the internet. As I said, it's

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ten to twenty times more capable than V two.

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Speaker 4: It's a very big satellite.

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Speaker 1: In fact, it can only be launched on Starship, so

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it's too big to be launched on any other rocket

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on Earth. So Starship has a thirty foot diameter cogo bay,

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and the V three satellites are let's see, about seven meters,

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so about.

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Speaker 4: Twenty two or twenty three.

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Speaker 1: Feet wide, so very big, like the size of a

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small bus essentially. And there's a bunch of technical details

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about we have much bigger plas, ray antennas, we've got

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more ground links, we've got more of our laser that

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our satellites communicate with each other with lasers that we

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developed and manufacture. So it's got a lot more lasers

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and more advanced lasers. It's also got w VAN and event.

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These are technical details, but it's got a lot of

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it's trans it's like a crazy orbiting radio station.

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Speaker 5: Because it doesn't Starship do twelve of them or fifteen

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or once.

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Speaker 4: It should be able to do fifty fifty.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, because Starship B three is aimed at aiming to

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do one hundred tons to orbit with full reusability, and

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then Starship B four we're aiming for over two hundred

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tons permission and then being able to launch every hour.

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Speaker 5: Next one's data centers in space you've been talking about.

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Other people have mentioned it, but obviously it has different

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technical capabilities. There's colder up there, lu's vibration, but you

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also got to get the data back to the Earth

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by some method. I think you mentioned me lasers in

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good weather in bed and so how hard is it

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to do now you've looked at.

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Speaker 4: It for a while, We don't think this is a

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particularly difficult thing to do.

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Speaker 1: In fact, we think it's easier than our communication satellites,

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quite a bit easier than our communication satellites stallin V three.

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Communication satellites is an incredibly complex machine. The AI data

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center would be much simpler by comparison, because it's really

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just solar power plus radiator, some basic equipment for operating

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the satellite, and then the laser links which would connect

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to the Starlink communications constellation and then back and then

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to the ground, and it would the connection would happen

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no matter what the weather is because once you connect

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FM violences to the stalling communication constellation, the stalling communicates

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the ground with frequencies that are cloud pinder trading, so

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that in fact even roof penetrating to some degree, so

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you would always be able to close link with the

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data centers.

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Speaker 6: Excellent.

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Speaker 5: Talking about America, one of the big things here, we've

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been talking about the reindustrialization of America for a long time.

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Bring you back advanced manufacturing. Now you're talking about billion,

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the terror fab billionship fabs in New York.

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Speaker 6: What compelled you do that? Now with all the other

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things you're working on, Well, we.

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Speaker 1: Try to so what's the limiting factor, and the limiting

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factor what we see is limiting factor is being able

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to make chips, both logic memory and packaging. This was

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noting that there's not a single high volume computer memory

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fab in America right now.

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Speaker 4: Zero.

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Speaker 1: There's one being built in Idaho by Micron, but that

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will not reach volume production until I believe twenty twenty eight.

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And there's something built in New York, but they are

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I think twenty nine and thirty. And this is a

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tiny fraction of the memory that's needed. And in fact,

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even if you take the best case assumptions of the

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memory makers and the logic makers, it is not enough

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to meet the demand that is anticipated, which is why

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you're seeing stocks of Micron go to I think one

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point two trillion or.

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Speaker 4: Some quite high number.

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Speaker 1: So there's just clearly a need for AI logic, memory

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and packaging AI computers. Essentially, that is far beyond what

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even the best case assumptions of the existing fabricators can do,

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and that's why we need to do the terrafab Yeah,

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it seems like essential advice.

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Speaker 4: We will not there will not be enough chips.

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Speaker 5: Some going to do one more on some of the

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stuff you've building, and then a little bit more on

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other issues AI strategy. You've also bought took a crack

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inside into SpaceX. How does that fit into this platform

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you're building?

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Speaker 4: Uh, yeah, there's you know.

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Speaker 1: So we do intend with our SpaceX AI satellites to

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allow people to put whatever GPU or TPU they want.

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So if in Bettio GPUs can be put on it,

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Google TPUs can be put on Amazon, TRAINEUS or any

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other ships that if you want to put on can

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be put on. We will also offer our chips in

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the future, and I think We also want to offer

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our software.

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Speaker 4: Our AI software as well in the future, but it.

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Speaker 1: Will be such that you can run anyone's AI hardware

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or software on the Tesla AI satellite space as satellites.

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Speaker 6: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: Right, So the next three are completely different. I'm gonna

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mention each one. I'll each ask you each one. But

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one's about his view of patriotism and service to this country.

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One's about culture and bench how do you actually build

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these wonderful companies because a lot of people here have

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that those issues, and then kind of leadership about I

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have a very specific question about that, But first I'll

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start patriots. We've served this country. I know you're a patriot,

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We've spoken about it. How did you brew your role

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of being an American patriot helping the United States?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm incredibly pro American and I it always have been.

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Speaker 4: So.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, SpaceX does do a lot of work for the

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BARD used to call the Department of Defense the Department

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of For these days, we have a division called star Shield,

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which provides military communications and there's some other stuff that's

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kind of classified, can't be can't talk about that, but

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we are helping the Department.

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Speaker 4: Award and instel part of the vital element of that.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, I was just super pro America always happened.

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Speaker 5: Thank you Culture a bench, Brett. When have been with

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you for fifteen twenty years? I know you've built a

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huge bench in SpaceX. How do you keep it going?

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Which important to you? How do you make sure you

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keep the best talent?

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Speaker 4: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: When was I think around the seventh person to join

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the company, and that was two thousand and two to

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swing like twenty four years and general generally the senior

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executives at the company you have for a very long tenure.

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I think Brent Johnson's been CFO for fifteen years, and.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, like we I think because people really believe in

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the mission.

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Speaker 1: I think they want to stay and they want to

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keep building it. Like we want to make humanity a

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space frank civilization. We want to take commanity to Mars

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and the Moon and ultimately beyond. We want to make

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it's like science fiction, make it real. So go to

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places that have never been explored before. Make Star Trek real.

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Speaker 6: That was one of my favorite shows.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, excellent, And then last one, you've built multiple companies.

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Speaker 6: How have you changed from maybe twenty years ago?

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Speaker 5: I should maybe I should ask you, guys, how have

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you changed from like when you started to today lessons

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you've learned, how you changed both as a leader as

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a person.

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Speaker 1: I think I'm probably more chill than I used to be,

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so for a little and way more laid back than

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I used to be, which I'm still not that laid back,

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but more than I used to be for sure. And

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one of the things that I found over time, and

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I've mentioned this before, is that in terms of recruiting

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people to the company and having people work with.

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Speaker 4: The company, their individual abilities and their intellectual.

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Speaker 1: Capabilities to matter a lot. But also it also matters

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if they have a good heart. It's not just about

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whether somebody has so niqu or whatever, but it's just

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out there a good person that matters a lot.

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Speaker 4: I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I guess I've learnt a lot, although I feel like

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I still have a lot to learn and just make

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a lot of mistakes. But I think maybe the future

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AI will say not bad for a human.

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Speaker 5: Listen, I before we thank Elon for coming, I just

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want to thank him just watching him build companies, and

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I can't wait to watch the next ten or fifteen

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years about what you accomplish and what you dream of

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and getting to Mars and building new businesses and being creative.

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So Elon, I want to thank you for having everybody,

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for coming here, sharing your ideas. There are brochures out

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there about the whole space X thing, but Elon, thank you,

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thank you.

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Speaker 4: Thanks for having me. I will say.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for listening. To see you in the next episode.