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Speaker 1: You.

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Speaker 2: I am now listening to soft Core History.

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Speaker 1: What is up? Welcome back to Softcore History.

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Speaker 3: I am your host for the week, Rob Fox, joined

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as always.

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Speaker 1: By Dan Jester.

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Speaker 4: Thanks for the invite back to your show.

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Speaker 5: Rep.

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Speaker 4: It's always good, always a pleasure to have you here.

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Speaker 3: We have a very exciting, if inexplicable show today for

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some reason, and I apologize in advance.

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Speaker 1: We're joined by an.

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Speaker 3: Expert, which is very odd for this show. Typically I

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like to be the one with the most historical knowledge.

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He likes to hold that over yea, you like to

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hold that over everyone, and I'm just getting cooked like crazy.

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Speaker 1: Today we have Alex Petkis. Is that right?

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Speaker 3: PHDHD from what you sign all your emails with, I do, yeah,

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which I would to you know, you don't go doctor

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Uh it sounds too.

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Speaker 5: Much like doctor Pepper. Okay, doctor Petkis, Yeah, that makes sense.

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I still have old students to call me that. But

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doctor Peck never liked it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I would feel bad about it. I would feel

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I had a history teacher in high school who insisted

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on the doctor.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, insisted on it.

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Speaker 4: I would too. I mean Shack has a doctor in education, Yeah,

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doctor Shack.

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Speaker 1: Doctor yeah, did he Does he have a real one

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or is it honorary?

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Speaker 4: I think it's real.

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Speaker 6: Okay, an honorary doctorate in education.

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Speaker 5: I achieved it.

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Speaker 3: I would feel bad if I actually got the PhD,

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But if I had an honorary PhD, I would.

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Speaker 6: Go full doctor milk the hell out of it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, because at that point it's just gratuitous

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in a hilarious way.

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Speaker 5: Well, it's weird because you know, in grad school the

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trend now is like you grad students call their professors

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like Jim or you know, Sally.

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Speaker 3: You get pretty close with the professor in grad.

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Speaker 5: School, right, Yeah, it's like too close sometimes, that's what

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I've heard.

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Speaker 6: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: But and so you know, when I when I was

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becoming a guy on the internet as I am now,

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I was, you know, very averse to flashing.

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Speaker 6: The whole academic credential thing. But all my friends are like, dude,

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you got to milk that. You got to milk that.

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Speaker 1: You absolutely need to milk that, especially because.

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Speaker 4: Because you lowered yourself on the internet.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: You A, you lowered yourself by existing on the internet.

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And b.

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Speaker 3: I don't mean this offensively, but you are a very

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nondescript white guy. Right, so you just showing up on

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a screen talking, you could just be a guy in

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a basement, right, Yeah, you need to you need to

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slap that credential.

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Speaker 4: All the degrees behind you on the wall.

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Speaker 6: Yep.

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Speaker 3: But you do have a soothing sort of like monotone

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type of voice that that I I'm a rube like

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if I will immediately like latch onto superficial things, so

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if someone speaking calmly, I'll be like, there's mark.

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Speaker 5: People tell me that they like to listen to my

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podcast right before they go to bed and actually to

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soothe them to sleep, which I'm never sure whether to

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take as a compliment or I think else.

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Speaker 3: I used to fall asleep to the Civil War all

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the time, which is another suit.

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Speaker 5: I don't know.

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Speaker 3: I don't even remember who narrates it because it's not

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Kem Burns and narrates it. But that is another soothing voice,

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so it's I think it's mostly complementary. Someone told me

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they fell asleep to this podcast, which is fucking tychotic.

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Speaker 5: But it is.

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Speaker 2: I've heard people fall asleep to our step pod father,

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Dan Carlin's podcast for History.

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Speaker 5: I could fall asleep to that. Yeah, No, it's not

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so bad. I guess it's got its place, right.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you are a PhD in classics from Princeton, that's right. Yeah,

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for my sins, what is classics versus a PhD in history?

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Speaker 1: You're kind of explaining it off, Mike, But.

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Speaker 5: So classics is is really the study of the Greeks

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and the Romans as such?

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Speaker 1: And influence by your last name at all?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I can't.

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Speaker 6: I can't deny that I had a kind of personal

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stake in it.

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Speaker 5: I did a little Latin in high school, kind of

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like in the half assed way that a high school

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like you took Latin.

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Speaker 6: I took Latin.

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Speaker 1: Does that mean you went to a Catholic school?

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Speaker 5: No, No, so public school and you know Central Houston, Texas,

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we had a Latin program.

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Speaker 6: It was kind of dorky, but you know, it was

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fun enough.

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Speaker 3: My parents were pissed that my Catholic high school did

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not offer Latin because they're like, we would have made

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you Latin.

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Speaker 2: They're like, it's more useful than you not learned. Rob's

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parents hate Vatican two.

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Speaker 3: Oh actually my mom loves the Vatican too.

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Speaker 1: I don't know what my dad's house divided, Yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, Well, so I mean, imagine what you could have

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become if you had only done Latin.

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Speaker 3: Could have homologized everything. I would understand any word.

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Speaker 6: Yeah. Yeah.

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Speaker 5: So I was Greek Orthodoxy, and so I was surrounded

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by Greek. Never knew a word of it, where like,

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you know, fourth generation, I'm like a quarter Greek. So

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it's but you got the name, you got the name,

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and you can you can kind of pretend, right, So

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I got. I guess I got to college. I'd done Latin,

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it was behind me, never really thought i'd come back

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to it. And then I had this opportunity to learn Greek.

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I guess it was like on the course catalog and

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I had some free credits or whatever, and uh, I

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was like I should learn Greek, you know, talk to

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the old ladies at church. Maybe I could understand a

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word of the lurgy. Yeah yeah, yeah yeah and uh

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and so I take this class Attic Greek my third

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year of college and it was just like like a yeah,

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well yeah, basically like an election, yeah yeah, because I

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was a majoring editor.

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Speaker 1: Right, that's the wild elective to take.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, because usually if you can avoid any difficulty in

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an elective whatever.

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Speaker 1: Music for jocks you right, right, right. I I fucked myself.

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Speaker 3: So I took like a lot of history of active

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because I was like, oh, get alert something that I

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would get in there and be like, oh my god,

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why did I fucking do?

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Speaker 4: I'm surprised.

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Speaker 2: And I went to a state school and one of

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the electives that was offered was essentially a glorified gym class.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, and you.

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Speaker 1: Took it, right of course.

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Speaker 2: And look where you are today, same place you want

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to r Yeah, exactly exactly.

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Speaker 5: So you know, I had this experience where it was like,

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this is what I have to do for my life.

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This is so cool. You know, all the etymologies, and

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I was kind of good at the Greek, like the

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language part.

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Speaker 3: Because that's another Those are the two great like etymology, editomology,

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whatever the fuck languages Greek.

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Speaker 5: And Latin source languages. Yeah, I'm more Latin, but there's

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enough in Greek, you know, philosophy, history, those are Greek terms.

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I mean, church comes from a Greek word. There's a

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lot of Christianity in Greek, for sure, a lot of

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Christianity and like like the kind of intellectual categories that

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we think with. Yeah, theory is a Greek word.

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Speaker 6: And so on and so on. So I was really

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enamored with this stuff.

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Speaker 5: And I had a teacher who was like six', four, built,

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brilliant big, family AND i was, LIKE i want to

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be like this.

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Speaker 1: Guy so well on your. WAY i, mean you're not that,

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jack but you have.

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Speaker 6: KIDS i need to work on the.

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Speaker 5: Jack yeah, yeah but, yeah got three, kids and you

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know someday it's.

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Speaker 1: RIGHT i, mean you're picking up those. Kids is enough

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of a.

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Speaker 5: Workout, YEAH i was doing some squats with the with

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the seven year old. Earlier, yeah, yeah, yeah it's. Perfect,

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yeah got. It you gotta squeeze it in when you.

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Can so so, so classics is basically language intensive in

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its traditional. Form you, know this is often that you

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get archaeologists in the classics, department you get, philosophers you get.

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HISTORIANS i, mean it's a kind of a mish, mash

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right of all these, disciplines but really the languages are

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the kind of key piece of, it at least. Historically

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now it's of course it's all about critical gender and

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colonely decolonializing and The greek sexing the text and.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah who are not as gay as people think they?

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Were in my. Opinion but that's another can of.

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Speaker 1: Work.

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Speaker 4: Please they invented threesomes and the rumans invited.

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Speaker 5: Women, yeah that's that's WHAT i. Hear that's that's the.

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Speaker 1: Word we're gonna get into that, Lot we're going to

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get into.

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Speaker 5: That so so, yeah and THEN i kind of ran

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with it and ended up doing a.

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Speaker 6: PhD and you.

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Speaker 5: KNOW i was an academic for a couple of years

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BEFORE i realized this wasn't WHAT i was supposed to

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do with my. Life, yeah AND i think the academias

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got a lot of problems that they need to sort.

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Out and then a lot of really interesting intellectual work

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is being done. Now just like direct to customer right

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right on the.

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Speaker 6: Internet.

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Speaker 3: Right it includes your Podcast cost Of, glory, yeah which

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you can find anywhere. Anywhere you get your podcast.

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Speaker 1: Anywhere, yeah he prefers you listen On. Amazon, yeah can

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you listen to?

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Speaker 4: Podcasts nobody prefers.

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Speaker 1: That nobody prefer.

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Speaker 3: It BUT i do LEAVE I i Sometimes i'll leave

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like our show on for the dogs on like Our alexa,

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okay which is our, Tagline like you don't have to

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listen to leave it on for the.

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Speaker 5: Dogs, yeah and they'll think you're there and they won't try. Anything, yep, yeah, yeah,

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yeah you should do. That that's that's the key.

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Speaker 1: Demo dogs are a really underrated podcast.

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Speaker 5: Demographic, yeah well that makes me think about sponsorship options

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for my. Show, yeah so all, right filew that.

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Speaker 1: Away yeah, yeah put that.

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Speaker 3: Away so one thing you said in your emails to

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us is that right now you are a Big slah.

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Speaker 5: GUY i am a Big solar. Guy Is sula a

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household name for you?

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Speaker 3: Guys so THAT'S i know who he, is BUT i

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had to do some refresher work to kind of really

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get into the details of.

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Speaker 4: Them but that glossed over.

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Speaker 1: Them, yeah, yeah, yeah we've glossed over.

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Speaker 3: Them and that's actually the first THING i want to

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talk about is He's he's a very underrated figure totally

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In roman history because when you think Of rome Obviously

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caesar And augustus and then you get you, Know Nero

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Marcus aurelius comtists just From.

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Speaker 4: Gladiator tiberius and his island.

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Speaker 1: Kind of Like, constantine right those love.

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Speaker 2: Island yeah, yeah maybe not fish well the original yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah little.

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Speaker 3: Fishes but, like why why do you Think sula is

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kind of overlooked by by normany history. Buffs, WELL i

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here's HOW i got Into. Solo so on my, SHOW

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i do like long form, biographies And I'm i'm following

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this one ancient, Author, plutarch who used to be super.

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00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:48,279
Popular he's a biographer from The roman world and used

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to be like the most popular classical author of all

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in like the eighteenth century In. America and So i'm

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just kind of going through these biographies And sula is

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one of, them, Right and SO i get THE sla

243
00:11:01,879 --> 00:11:04,960
and you, know if you're in a classics department maybe

244
00:11:05,080 --> 00:11:08,000
or if you're kind of Around roman, Historians sula is

245
00:11:09,080 --> 00:11:13,799
just one of the villains of all, history. Right he's

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he's famous for reviving the office of the, dictator which,

247
00:11:17,559 --> 00:11:21,559
is you, know it's not like totally the same thing

248
00:11:21,559 --> 00:11:23,919
as a modern. Dictator it's like an office in The roman,

249
00:11:23,960 --> 00:11:28,080
constitution you get voted. Dictator it had a, utility it

250
00:11:28,120 --> 00:11:30,600
had it's like an emergency, office right, right, right you

251
00:11:30,639 --> 00:11:34,240
know with the famously Like, cincinnatus, Yes George washington's hero,

252
00:11:34,559 --> 00:11:36,559
exactly you, know blah blah blah.

253
00:11:36,600 --> 00:11:40,399
Speaker 5: Exactly and So sola revives this office like one hundred

254
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and twenty years after it's been. Defunked saula is living

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in the first half of the first CENTURY, bc so.

256
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Speaker 1: He's alive When Julius caesar's like a. Teenager.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah they overlap with some interesting. Results, yeah which.

258
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Speaker 1: We'll talk about a little.

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Speaker 5: Bit. Yeah, so And saula is like the generation before

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all the all the famous guys from the Late republic

261
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that you might you, Know crassis the richest man In,

262
00:12:03,759 --> 00:12:06,720
Rome pompey The, great Who's caesar's enemy in The Civil,

263
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War cato The, younger they're all like stamped By sola's. Legacy.

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Yeah so he's got this big, influence and so he's

265
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famous for reviving the office of. Dictator he's also famous

266
00:12:15,919 --> 00:12:20,799
for doing this incredibly bloody purge of his enemies after

267
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he wins this incredibly bloody civil. War right so you,

268
00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:31,200
know arguably a. Monster, yeah from one, perspective, right but.

269
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Speaker 1: He but, wait, yeah hold, on there's.

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Speaker 4: More.

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Speaker 3: ALSO i always with times like that, Too so we

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00:12:37,840 --> 00:12:40,039
actually here's a quick question on. THAT i always we

273
00:12:40,039 --> 00:12:41,960
always kind of joke it's, like, yeah but it was

274
00:12:42,039 --> 00:12:44,559
you KNOW adbc or like when they do something it's

275
00:12:44,600 --> 00:12:47,879
like that's fucked, up but it WAS, Adbc like it

276
00:12:47,960 --> 00:12:50,320
wasn't he didn't do it in twenty sixteen or, something you, know,

277
00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:54,320
right right standards of his, time even for the time he,

278
00:12:54,600 --> 00:12:57,200
was people were, like god damn, Dude.

279
00:12:57,080 --> 00:13:02,279
Speaker 5: Yeah nobody ever did that before or or after In.

280
00:13:02,399 --> 00:13:07,559
Roun so he he murders or he, proscribes so he

281
00:13:07,600 --> 00:13:10,679
doesn't do it. Himself maybe some of these guys escaped to,

282
00:13:10,679 --> 00:13:13,519
exile but like more than a thousand Of rome's leading

283
00:13:13,559 --> 00:13:17,840
men get their name put on a list posted in the.

284
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Forum you, know that means, basically your life is. Forfeit

285
00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:25,399
if one Of saula's guys catches, you they cut off your.

286
00:13:25,440 --> 00:13:28,639
Head bring it To sola as he's sitting there in the.

287
00:13:28,679 --> 00:13:32,120
Forum oh, yeah, OKAY i recognize. Him you're, good cross

288
00:13:32,159 --> 00:13:34,080
him off the. List he gives you a, reward and

289
00:13:34,120 --> 00:13:36,759
then their their proper property gets.

290
00:13:36,799 --> 00:13:40,480
Speaker 1: Confiscated so and if they, escape their property still gets.

291
00:13:40,519 --> 00:13:43,919
Speaker 5: Confiscated, yeah and you know they can maybe hide out

292
00:13:43,960 --> 00:13:46,759
and Wherever marseille.

293
00:13:46,360 --> 00:13:47,080
Speaker 6: Or you, Know.

294
00:13:47,360 --> 00:13:50,840
Speaker 5: Albania caesar got. Away caesar gets. Away, yeah so he

295
00:13:50,879 --> 00:13:54,720
didn't get, proscribed. Didn't but he was like a little

296
00:13:54,799 --> 00:13:55,799
maybe a little too young for.

297
00:13:55,840 --> 00:13:55,919
Speaker 1: That.

298
00:13:56,080 --> 00:13:58,799
Speaker 5: Yeah but So saula has just won The Civil, war

299
00:13:59,519 --> 00:14:03,039
and he's kind of ordering people. Around he Gets pompey

300
00:14:03,279 --> 00:14:06,320
is maybe twenty. Two he was a general For sola

301
00:14:06,440 --> 00:14:10,600
in The Civil. War And sala's, Like, POMPEY i don't

302
00:14:10,600 --> 00:14:11,399
think you're married to the right.

303
00:14:11,440 --> 00:14:12,879
Speaker 6: WOMAN i got the woman for.

304
00:14:12,720 --> 00:14:15,600
Speaker 5: You Pomp he's, like, yes, sir, Yeah and then he

305
00:14:15,639 --> 00:14:19,679
goes To caesar and he, Says, CAESAR i don't think

306
00:14:19,679 --> 00:14:22,200
you're married to the right. Woman Because caesar was actually

307
00:14:22,240 --> 00:14:24,840
married to the daughter of one Of sala's mortal, enemies

308
00:14:24,879 --> 00:14:27,440
this Guy, senna and he's, LIKE i, don't, like you,

309
00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:30,279
know a prominent young, man like you shouldn't be married

310
00:14:30,320 --> 00:14:32,720
to the daughter of you, know keep that line, going,

311
00:14:32,840 --> 00:14:37,039
Yeah And caesar's, like, no screw, You, YEAH i love.

312
00:14:37,080 --> 00:14:38,559
Speaker 6: Her he's seventeen years.

313
00:14:38,600 --> 00:14:39,039
Speaker 5: Old, yeah.

314
00:14:39,080 --> 00:14:41,600
Speaker 6: Yeah and so.

315
00:14:43,159 --> 00:14:46,200
Speaker 5: He runs, away like you, know he flees into the.

316
00:14:46,240 --> 00:14:50,200
Mountains he's like getting chased around by you, know the

317
00:14:51,480 --> 00:14:55,720
guy's hunting him, down and he finally they get they

318
00:14:55,759 --> 00:14:58,120
catch him BECAUSE i think he gets dysentery or. Something

319
00:14:58,159 --> 00:15:01,360
he's very organ trail happ, yeah, yeah which you, know

320
00:15:01,559 --> 00:15:04,399
one bad glass of water and it doesn't take. Much

321
00:15:04,440 --> 00:15:07,960
And caesar doesn't have like the strongest constitution. Anyway so

322
00:15:08,279 --> 00:15:11,960
he manages to bribe the guards who capture, him and

323
00:15:11,960 --> 00:15:13,960
they bring him Before, slah you, know instead of just

324
00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:16,679
like killing him out, right, Right and so they bring

325
00:15:16,720 --> 00:15:21,279
him Before sola And caesar's friends come and they. Intercede

326
00:15:21,559 --> 00:15:24,440
please saw he's just a, Boy he's a good. Kid

327
00:15:24,639 --> 00:15:28,399
he's lost his. Father caesar's dad had a heart attack

328
00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:30,720
while he was tying his shoe one. Day it's. Tough,

329
00:15:30,919 --> 00:15:31,559
yeah so.

330
00:15:31,799 --> 00:15:34,080
Speaker 1: More laces on a sandal than, yeah.

331
00:15:33,840 --> 00:15:36,840
Speaker 5: And you, know it's a long. Process and you, know

332
00:15:36,879 --> 00:15:39,799
Maybe sola, sees you, know he lost his dad. YOUNG

333
00:15:39,919 --> 00:15:43,320
i don't, know but he Spares, caesar but he, says all, right,

334
00:15:43,399 --> 00:15:47,279
fine we'll spare the, boy but your fools if you

335
00:15:47,320 --> 00:15:50,639
don't see many Of marius in this. Boy And marius

336
00:15:50,720 --> 00:15:53,440
Was sulla's like other mortal In, himyes, yeah so he's like,

337
00:15:53,559 --> 00:15:56,440
this that's the story that he kind of prophesied That

338
00:15:56,440 --> 00:15:57,960
caesar was gonna rise and be something.

339
00:15:58,000 --> 00:16:00,879
Speaker 1: Evil Was MARIUS i actually forgot to look this up.

340
00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:04,759
Speaker 3: Yesterday Was marius the guy behind The Marian marian?

341
00:16:04,840 --> 00:16:08,559
Speaker 5: Reforms, yes same? Guy, yeah, Okay, yeah So marius is

342
00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:14,799
kind of an important guy In sola's story Because slah

343
00:16:14,879 --> 00:16:16,720
is like twenty years younger than. Him but he kind

344
00:16:16,720 --> 00:16:20,080
of makes his rise in politics in the, military especially

345
00:16:20,440 --> 00:16:24,600
being a junior officer In marius's army When marius his,

346
00:16:24,679 --> 00:16:30,120
consul And marius famously kind of not privatize The roman,

347
00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:33,519
army but he professionalized. It so he used to be you,

348
00:16:33,559 --> 00:16:36,080
know you, go you fight a campaign as A roman

349
00:16:36,120 --> 00:16:39,240
citizen for the. Summer people don't fight wars in the.

350
00:16:39,240 --> 00:16:43,279
Winter that's that's. Ungentlemanly you go back to your, farm

351
00:16:43,679 --> 00:16:46,240
you come back and you, know you supply your own

352
00:16:47,039 --> 00:16:50,039
weapons and. Armor you, know you poor people don't fight

353
00:16:50,080 --> 00:16:52,720
in the. Army that's, ungentlemanly, Right And marius is, like,

354
00:16:52,759 --> 00:16:54,639
no we gotta we gotta win. Wars we got to,

355
00:16:54,639 --> 00:16:56,799
Recruit we got to get the state to pay for

356
00:16:57,440 --> 00:17:00,120
armor and equipment and, stuff.

357
00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:01,799
Speaker 3: Which was kind of a massive reform at the, time

358
00:17:01,919 --> 00:17:04,519
especially in The Western, mediterranean, right like that was not

359
00:17:04,640 --> 00:17:06,920
a thing anyone else was doing at.

360
00:17:06,920 --> 00:17:10,480
Speaker 5: All, Right, no AND i mean you could hire, mercenaries

361
00:17:10,519 --> 00:17:13,119
but you, know The romans they have all of these

362
00:17:13,319 --> 00:17:19,720
like citizen potential, manpower you, know knocking around the streets Of.

363
00:17:19,839 --> 00:17:23,200
Rome the brothels, like let's let's get these guys to.

364
00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:26,200
Speaker 1: Work you're not doing anything, right put a sword in

365
00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:26,880
their hands.

366
00:17:26,880 --> 00:17:30,680
Speaker 5: And uh and by doing, that he what ends up

367
00:17:30,680 --> 00:17:34,000
happening is you kind of make the army loyal more

368
00:17:34,039 --> 00:17:37,359
to the. General like he's you, know the general is

369
00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:40,319
going to give, you you, know plots of land when you,

370
00:17:40,359 --> 00:17:42,599
retire you're going to kind of be loyal to him for.

371
00:17:42,680 --> 00:17:45,000
Speaker 1: Life that's whatever you, win you get all.

372
00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:49,799
Speaker 5: The booty war brides and all that. Stuff. Yeah so

373
00:17:49,799 --> 00:17:51,359
so this is like a really important piece and the

374
00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:53,880
kind of the lead up to The Civil. War so So,

375
00:17:53,960 --> 00:17:58,680
marius you, know long story, Short sula is like an

376
00:17:58,720 --> 00:18:01,759
important junior Officer. Marius When marius is fighting this war

377
00:18:02,240 --> 00:18:06,960
In africa against this Guy, eugurtha who's this Suave numidian,

378
00:18:07,039 --> 00:18:10,240
King he's bribing all The roman aristocrats and prolonging the.

379
00:18:10,279 --> 00:18:13,680
Speaker 1: War and it's like west Of, carthage.

380
00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:16,440
Speaker 5: Right, yeah it's, like, yeah west Of carthage kind Of,

381
00:18:16,519 --> 00:18:18,799
algeria Northern algeria.

382
00:18:18,880 --> 00:18:21,240
Speaker 1: Area they already Have carthage.

383
00:18:20,039 --> 00:18:21,319
Speaker 6: On carthage is.

384
00:18:22,079 --> 00:18:27,599
Speaker 5: Down, yeah, Yeah Carthage's Tunisia numidia is Like, Algeria Morocco's.

385
00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:31,720
Mauritania that's kind of how it breaks. Down so so

386
00:18:31,799 --> 00:18:36,920
they end up Basically marius is fighting this war With,

387
00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:40,359
ugurtha and and the way that he ends up winning

388
00:18:40,839 --> 00:18:43,319
is not by defeating You gurtha in. BATTLE i mean

389
00:18:43,359 --> 00:18:44,920
does a couple of, times but he's not gonna like

390
00:18:45,440 --> 00:18:47,519
get the. Guy as long as You gurtha is, alive

391
00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:50,559
this war is going to go. On he's you, know, slippery,

392
00:18:50,599 --> 00:18:53,920
popular knows the. Territory so they end up he ends

393
00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:56,400
up Having sola go out And saula is like thirty

394
00:18:57,319 --> 00:19:00,319
And marius is, fifty And sola goes out on a

395
00:19:00,519 --> 00:19:06,279
kind of tricky sting. Operation he pretends to be an

396
00:19:06,319 --> 00:19:09,559
emissary to another rival, king this Guy, bocus who is

397
00:19:09,599 --> 00:19:13,920
sort of frenemies with, You, girtha and he tricks You.

398
00:19:14,039 --> 00:19:20,720
Gurtha essentially the ruse. Is bocus convinces You gurtha that you,

399
00:19:20,759 --> 00:19:24,839
know they're going to Betray sola to You gurtha so

400
00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:28,599
That youugurtha can have this like expensive captive and this

401
00:19:28,799 --> 00:19:31,119
high verage a hostage and just keep the war going on.

402
00:19:31,279 --> 00:19:36,400
Forever and Then solah Convinces, bocus who was maybe kind

403
00:19:36,400 --> 00:19:39,160
of really debating about, it so he puts himself at

404
00:19:39,200 --> 00:19:41,319
personal risk with like not a lot of, guards you,

405
00:19:41,359 --> 00:19:44,000
know goes on this mission To, bocus and he basically

406
00:19:44,039 --> 00:19:46,599
Convinces bocas to Betray youugurtha, instead because.

407
00:19:46,359 --> 00:19:48,359
Speaker 1: He's apparently he's kind of a charming, guy.

408
00:19:48,599 --> 00:19:50,480
Speaker 6: Super, charming he's good with the.

409
00:19:50,599 --> 00:19:55,319
Speaker 5: Ladies, yeah he's, handsome you, know kind of scary handsome

410
00:19:57,200 --> 00:20:01,240
and you, know very very sl, operator and you, know

411
00:20:02,039 --> 00:20:05,960
he kind of bets That bocus is going to do

412
00:20:06,319 --> 00:20:08,599
not what is the noble. Thing the noble thing would, be,

413
00:20:08,680 --> 00:20:12,119
okay E girth is a Fellow. Numidian they're freedom. Fighters

414
00:20:12,160 --> 00:20:15,720
they want to Get roman domination out Of. Africa but you,

415
00:20:15,759 --> 00:20:17,720
Know sola bets The bocus is going to, see all,

416
00:20:17,759 --> 00:20:19,759
Right i'd rather be friends with the great power and

417
00:20:19,799 --> 00:20:22,240
be like the big man In numidia than like be

418
00:20:22,319 --> 00:20:23,039
an honorable new.

419
00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:25,400
Speaker 6: Media right actually so so.

420
00:20:25,319 --> 00:20:29,880
Speaker 5: Anyway he he, uh you, know they captured you Girtha

421
00:20:30,160 --> 00:20:33,680
bocus's troops like slaughter all of his, bodyguards and they

422
00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:37,079
card him back To roman chains And marius at the

423
00:20:37,119 --> 00:20:43,720
time gets all the, credits But sola later starts circulating

424
00:20:43,720 --> 00:20:47,559
the story Old marius was kind of slow and fat

425
00:20:47,599 --> 00:20:51,200
and really what it took was me to Capture. Youugurtha

426
00:20:51,759 --> 00:20:54,319
i'm really the guy who deserves the credit for winning

427
00:20:54,359 --> 00:20:56,680
the war In. Numidia and this is kind of the

428
00:20:56,720 --> 00:20:59,079
beginning of the break With sola And, marius who end

429
00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:02,480
up basically fight the civil. WARS i guess it's very personal.

430
00:21:02,839 --> 00:21:04,799
Speaker 3: And the civil, war and we didn't get in the

431
00:21:04,799 --> 00:21:06,279
details the civil war and, say but the civil war

432
00:21:06,519 --> 00:21:12,599
essentially ends With sola's, dictatorship right, yeah.

433
00:21:11,519 --> 00:21:14,279
Speaker 1: Which is like you said first, Time haping one hundred

434
00:21:14,279 --> 00:21:14,519
and twenty.

435
00:21:14,559 --> 00:21:15,839
Speaker 3: Years and he's kind of and this is WHY i

436
00:21:16,079 --> 00:21:18,240
kind of don't get him being.

437
00:21:18,559 --> 00:21:20,240
Speaker 1: Overlooked he's sort of the guy before the.

438
00:21:20,279 --> 00:21:25,039
Speaker 3: Guy every permission structure That Julius caesar needs to do

439
00:21:25,079 --> 00:21:27,440
what he, does and PROBABLY i Guess augustus to to

440
00:21:27,480 --> 00:21:30,920
do what he does comes From. SULA i think even

441
00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:35,160
pompe was, Like sula did, It why CAN'T? I, right, yeah.

442
00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:37,200
Speaker 5: Yeah sola is kind of the example that they're all thinking.

443
00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:41,880
About and so he wins the civil, war but it's

444
00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:46,359
after he already wins that he has himself declared dictator for.

445
00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:49,519
LIFE i, think So caesar becomes dictator for, life and

446
00:21:49,519 --> 00:21:52,359
Why sola, ESPECIALLY i think you could kind of title

447
00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:55,799
a book or maybe this podcast episode About Rome's Greatest,

448
00:21:55,839 --> 00:22:01,240
dictator because he Becomes dictator for The constitution of The,

449
00:22:01,319 --> 00:22:07,240
laws which means basically, becomes you, know has the supreme

450
00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:09,839
authority to like rewrite the constitution right and make all

451
00:22:09,880 --> 00:22:12,640
these reforms that are gonna make it harder to have

452
00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:15,440
a civil war. Again and then he lays the office.

453
00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:17,759
Down so, sorry he was just.

454
00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:20,079
Speaker 1: Dictator there was no. Time there was no.

455
00:22:20,039 --> 00:22:22,079
Speaker 5: Time, yeah there was no time, limit and people were, like,

456
00:22:22,119 --> 00:22:25,440
oh he's dictator for life, now, right so that, yes

457
00:22:26,119 --> 00:22:29,039
but he lays it down famously when he didn't have. To,

458
00:22:29,519 --> 00:22:32,359
yeah and so you, know you could argue in. This

459
00:22:32,799 --> 00:22:37,680
One german historian from nineteenth century, said saulah, was you,

460
00:22:37,720 --> 00:22:39,480
know could be compared only With George.

461
00:22:39,519 --> 00:22:40,720
Speaker 6: Washington he's, like.

462
00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:44,079
Speaker 5: Because he laid down the office, right, right you, Know

463
00:22:44,319 --> 00:22:47,759
George washington might not have proscribed and slaughtered thousands of his.

464
00:22:47,839 --> 00:22:51,240
Speaker 2: Enemies, well hold, on, people forget About George washington's war.

465
00:22:51,319 --> 00:22:54,680
Speaker 4: Crimes just executing The, germans that's, right.

466
00:22:54,680 --> 00:22:57,240
Speaker 3: And french in The french And Indian, war and he

467
00:22:57,279 --> 00:22:59,920
put a few down as. Well so that's just a little.

468
00:23:00,039 --> 00:23:03,559
Sin Though soulian streak to, him you crack a few, eggs, yeah,

469
00:23:03,599 --> 00:23:07,079
exactly and he was probably already by the seven years

470
00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:09,960
Slash french and you were pretty well versed in Ancient,

471
00:23:10,079 --> 00:23:10,599
rome and.

472
00:23:10,839 --> 00:23:12,680
Speaker 4: He was terrifying stuff like. That it was a six

473
00:23:12,680 --> 00:23:16,519
foot four ginger on a. Horse. Yeah not a lot

474
00:23:16,559 --> 00:23:19,160
of those around at the. Time it's not something you

475
00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:22,160
want to see coming at, all which is horrible, Teeth,

476
00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:23,359
yeah of all the ice cream.

477
00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:28,279
Speaker 3: Eats but so what what uh why why Doesn't sola

478
00:23:28,319 --> 00:23:30,480
GET i, mean because he did all these crazy things

479
00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:36,640
with the prescriptions SLAUGHTERING i think like a couple thousands same, night, yeah.

480
00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:37,839
Speaker 1: In the In, rome, right like just in front of.

481
00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:42,359
Speaker 5: Everyone, yeah and then also does become, dictator but then

482
00:23:42,599 --> 00:23:46,880
lets the dictatorship, go, Right but it's just kind of,

483
00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:49,799
LIKE i DON'T i don't understand how that doesn't meet

484
00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:54,920
the how that's not AS i, guess impressive or interesting

485
00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:59,160
to read, about as Like, nero who doesn't seem really

486
00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:03,480
that constant, quenchle, right but did a lot of just wild, Shit,

487
00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:08,839
yeah making his donkey console and or his. Horse. YEAH i, think,

488
00:24:09,839 --> 00:24:12,599
well we get we get so fascinated with The roman

489
00:24:12,599 --> 00:24:18,200
emperors because they're so kind of weird and kooky and you, know. Perverted,

490
00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:23,079
yeah BUT i think it's partly because we don't Read

491
00:24:23,079 --> 00:24:26,519
plutarch like we used. To it's fair like so Like George,

492
00:24:26,559 --> 00:24:30,519
washington like all The, founders they're super. Rombros, yes you,

493
00:24:30,559 --> 00:24:33,160
know they would have been a lot more familiar With

494
00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:37,240
sullah than With nero because he's like at LEAST i, mean,

495
00:24:37,799 --> 00:24:41,039
okay you near is an. Emperor but the guys of

496
00:24:41,079 --> 00:24:43,480
The Late, republic they're they're like in a, republic which

497
00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:45,799
is what The americans are trying to, create and people

498
00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:47,960
are like looking back to this these glory days of

499
00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:51,079
the ancient world where you, know you could run for

500
00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:58,359
office and democracy or republicanism, matter public speaking matters in

501
00:24:59,079 --> 00:25:00,960
a free, state like a public you, know whereas an,

502
00:25:01,039 --> 00:25:04,880
empire you, know it's just it's like a tyrannical monarchy

503
00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:07,000
from the perspective of the eighteenth century at, least, right

504
00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:10,519
so he was more well known in those early, days

505
00:25:10,559 --> 00:25:12,839
AND i don't, know he does come up in the

506
00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:15,119
pages of the letters of The Founding fathers as it's

507
00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:16,880
like wicked. Villain.

508
00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:19,279
Speaker 4: YEAH i feel Like nero gets more roun because of

509
00:25:19,279 --> 00:25:19,720
The Catholic.

510
00:25:19,799 --> 00:25:25,119
Speaker 5: Church, yeah. Public that's probably burning Burning. Christians yeah, yeah Burning,

511
00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:31,119
Rome Burning. Rome, yes, Yes so you, KNOW i Think

512
00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:36,240
sola deserves a kind of you, know Like Tony soprano

513
00:25:36,359 --> 00:25:40,240
kind of biopic. BIOPIC i, agree make the SHOW. Hbo, yeah,

514
00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:45,880
yeah well because you have all kinds of wild. Orgies

515
00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:48,559
this is What sola was really. Into, yeah that's how

516
00:25:48,559 --> 00:25:53,400
what he retired. To, yes he starts his. Career little

517
00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:56,240
known fact that In rome you could kind of piss

518
00:25:56,279 --> 00:26:01,079
away your your twenties carousing with actor is writing. PLAYS

519
00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:05,039
i Mean solo wrote these like, raunchy like low brow

520
00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:09,680
comedy plays and you, know would fool around with the,

521
00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:13,119
actors men and women. Afterwards he APPARENTLY i wrote his

522
00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:15,720
name now and he had a lover that for his whole.

523
00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:19,519
Speaker 3: Life apparently something with AN. M i can't find. It,

524
00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:21,119
yeah but it was a guy and he was just

525
00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:21,720
like in love with.

526
00:26:21,759 --> 00:26:26,640
Speaker 5: Them, yeah this like wrinkly old. Actor he's like still you,

527
00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:30,559
know keeping him around when he's. Sixty, yeah dictator.

528
00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:31,240
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah an. Actor that's.

529
00:26:31,279 --> 00:26:34,240
Speaker 3: Gross, yeah actors were FOR i think we've mentioned on

530
00:26:34,279 --> 00:26:36,400
the show, before but like actors and posts and stuff

531
00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:39,240
that's like low class, Shit like he's not hanging out

532
00:26:39,559 --> 00:26:42,559
and like at the club with you, Know Brad pitt

533
00:26:42,599 --> 00:26:45,359
and stuff like, that and they's no esteem to that, life.

534
00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:48,920
Speaker 5: Right, Right, yeah they're basically like a you, know one

535
00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:53,079
level above. Prostitutes, yeah because The romans have this weird

536
00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:57,279
thing about like having your body watched by a lot of,

537
00:26:57,319 --> 00:27:00,799
people and actors are often scantily cloud clad and so

538
00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:04,240
you know The roman centers where these thick, togas but

539
00:27:04,319 --> 00:27:07,440
like actors are kind of skin tight, clothes scandily, clad

540
00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:09,359
and so there's an idea that the audience is like

541
00:27:09,799 --> 00:27:15,359
somehow screwing you with their. Eyes so an actor sor by,

542
00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:17,599
definition like you, know.

543
00:27:17,599 --> 00:27:18,160
Speaker 1: Right they're like a.

544
00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:20,559
Speaker 6: Stripper, yeah like there's. Strippers, yeah, yeah, yeah there's.

545
00:27:20,559 --> 00:27:23,079
Speaker 2: STRIPPERS i mean there's not much difference between us as

546
00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:25,079
podcasters having A patreon and only.

547
00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:25,440
Speaker 5: Fans.

548
00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:26,920
Speaker 4: Girl in, FACT i think.

549
00:27:26,799 --> 00:27:27,519
Speaker 1: We are lower.

550
00:27:27,559 --> 00:27:30,640
Speaker 3: Class we make less money we do, sure which is

551
00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:31,519
all that matters at this.

552
00:27:31,599 --> 00:27:35,359
Speaker 5: Point, yeah not not appreciated enough and maybe deserving a

553
00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:38,119
little bit of a. Boost, YEAH i think we.

554
00:27:38,039 --> 00:27:39,359
Speaker 1: Just need to do sex stuff on The.

555
00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:44,319
Speaker 3: Patreon, yeah sh, together but, yeah like stuff to ourselves or.

556
00:27:45,079 --> 00:27:46,440
Speaker 4: Just whatever whatever the audience.

557
00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:48,720
Speaker 1: Wants, really let's just go Full roman with. It, yeah,

558
00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:50,720
honestly just.

559
00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:52,240
Speaker 6: Do just let the highest bidder.

560
00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:52,720
Speaker 5: Decide.

561
00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:55,319
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah we won't do things to each, other but

562
00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:58,359
whatever you want us to do, ourselves we'll do.

563
00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:01,640
Speaker 1: It we'll be actors for. You all the world is a.

564
00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:03,920
Speaker 2: Stage you're going to regret that when they request the

565
00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:04,960
heart wheels goes up your.

566
00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:06,559
Speaker 1: Ass, yeah they're gonna cross up.

567
00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:10,480
Speaker 5: Immediately but you'd be following in the footsteps of some

568
00:28:10,519 --> 00:28:13,039
Of rome's great, Men, yeah.

569
00:28:12,599 --> 00:28:14,279
Speaker 3: Including Solid do you think that's where he got a

570
00:28:14,279 --> 00:28:16,599
lot of his like charm?

571
00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:17,599
Speaker 6: FROM i think.

572
00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:19,440
Speaker 1: SO i was just living as a.

573
00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:21,559
Speaker 4: Creative basically for his.

574
00:28:21,599 --> 00:28:24,720
Speaker 3: Twenties because even though anyone could fuck, around it WASN'T i.

575
00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:26,759
Didn't wasn't it still kind of outstanding that he did

576
00:28:26,799 --> 00:28:27,559
it with because.

577
00:28:27,319 --> 00:28:29,119
Speaker 1: He was broke in his, twenties, right? Right?

578
00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:31,599
Speaker 3: Right so wasn't it kind of outstanding that he did

579
00:28:31,599 --> 00:28:34,240
it with that low class as opposed to just LIKE

580
00:28:34,759 --> 00:28:36,839
i don't, know being like a trust fund kid and

581
00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:38,759
like going to resorts.

582
00:28:38,359 --> 00:28:41,519
Speaker 4: And, yeah broken his twenties soul and, me, yeah birds

583
00:28:41,519 --> 00:28:41,680
of a.

584
00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:46,480
Speaker 5: Feather that's WHY i get so much encouragement out of this, story,

585
00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:50,240
right wasting my twenties. Away and WELL i was an,

586
00:28:50,279 --> 00:28:55,440
academic WHICH i see as much much wasted, time but as.

587
00:28:55,359 --> 00:28:56,519
Speaker 1: Opposed to orgies with.

588
00:28:56,599 --> 00:29:01,759
Speaker 5: Actors, yeah how different are they? Really but so you

589
00:29:01,759 --> 00:29:06,720
could Contrast Julius, caesar he HE i, mean probably he

590
00:29:06,799 --> 00:29:10,200
had his prostitutes or, whatever But caesar loves to go

591
00:29:10,279 --> 00:29:11,680
after the.

592
00:29:11,559 --> 00:29:12,759
Speaker 6: Wives of prominent.

593
00:29:12,799 --> 00:29:17,599
Speaker 5: Men you, know he's got you, Know betted With pompey's,

594
00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:23,559
wife Maybe, crassis his Wife, solanas the mother Of brutus

595
00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:27,160
who ends up stabbing. Him there's this rumor floating around

596
00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:29,319
that he might have Been brutus's. DAD i don't think

597
00:29:29,319 --> 00:29:30,880
the chronology makes, sense but you, know.

598
00:29:31,079 --> 00:29:32,480
Speaker 4: That's a bit of a, starfucker.

599
00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:36,759
Speaker 3: Starfucker, YEAH i mean that is a storyline in the show,

600
00:29:36,839 --> 00:29:37,720
room he's Saying.

601
00:29:37,559 --> 00:29:42,559
Speaker 5: Brutus's, mom that's, Right, yeah totally. True But salah doesn't

602
00:29:42,559 --> 00:29:44,839
seem to. REALLY i, mean he has like five, wives

603
00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:48,559
so it's not like he's a you, know faithful, guy

604
00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:50,359
but he's just not into the whole cuckholding.

605
00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:53,480
Speaker 1: Thing yeah, apparently but but he.

606
00:29:53,599 --> 00:29:56,880
Speaker 6: Is so he's really, charming and he he.

607
00:29:56,839 --> 00:30:00,680
Speaker 5: Has this, girl probably like an older, lady like a,

608
00:30:00,759 --> 00:30:07,039
courtisan and he's, poor and she's his favorite, apparently and

609
00:30:07,079 --> 00:30:09,599
then she dies and wills him a ton of.

610
00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:12,200
Speaker 4: Money she's like His Miss, Havisham, yes From Great.

611
00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:13,599
Speaker 1: Expectation, YES epti banks.

612
00:30:13,599 --> 00:30:15,920
Speaker 5: Her so he's a bit of a, jigglowe you, know,

613
00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:17,559
uh except he.

614
00:30:17,599 --> 00:30:19,720
Speaker 1: Banks you gotta do what you gotta do in these.

615
00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:23,000
Speaker 3: STREETS i, mean If The Great expectations would have ended,

616
00:30:23,039 --> 00:30:24,359
differently If pip.

617
00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:26,720
Speaker 4: Or whoever is dickens just you know that chapter was.

618
00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:30,359
Speaker 3: Removed, yeah you couldn't put that in a cereal in

619
00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:31,559
the paper or anything like.

620
00:30:31,599 --> 00:30:33,279
Speaker 1: That but it's in between the.

621
00:30:33,319 --> 00:30:35,279
Speaker 6: Lines it's it's probably implies.

622
00:30:35,599 --> 00:30:39,039
Speaker 3: Allegorically, yeah, yeah absolutely getting.

623
00:30:39,119 --> 00:30:44,920
Speaker 5: Drilled so So sola had His. Misshavisham she, dies wills

624
00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:50,000
him a bunch of. Money and then his dad's, wife you,

625
00:30:50,039 --> 00:30:53,359
know his dad's dead, now but his like second wife

626
00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:56,720
is a. Stepmom, yeah also had a thing For, sola

627
00:30:57,240 --> 00:31:00,680
maybe more than just a kind of felial. Effects and

628
00:31:00,759 --> 00:31:02,839
so when she, dies she wills him a bunch of money.

629
00:31:02,839 --> 00:31:05,599
Speaker 1: Too the tails old the, time, stepmom step.

630
00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:09,359
Speaker 4: Son he's laying it down then all these women.

631
00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:11,440
Speaker 3: Are but we know he's laying it down because he's

632
00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:14,200
laying it down on every actor In rome.

633
00:31:14,359 --> 00:31:19,599
Speaker 2: Too so that's where he's finding out anything the secrets of, life, right, yeah,

634
00:31:19,839 --> 00:31:21,079
WHY i think it's a big low in their.

635
00:31:21,119 --> 00:31:22,960
Speaker 5: Mind this is a big, piece you. Know he he

636
00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:26,559
gets the whole range of human, experience, right you, know.

637
00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:29,279
Speaker 3: Which is not something the nobility typically gets because he

638
00:31:29,279 --> 00:31:31,319
was kind of born broke, right, right and he was

639
00:31:31,319 --> 00:31:33,480
he didn't get the money until those those women.

640
00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:34,519
Speaker 6: Died, basically yeah, yeah.

641
00:31:34,599 --> 00:31:39,880
Speaker 5: Yeah so so so he gets into his you, know around,

642
00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:43,559
thirty he's just about too late to run for the

643
00:31:43,599 --> 00:31:46,880
lowest office In, rome the. Questership, yeah but he but

644
00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:49,880
he runs kind of late, bloomer like you would not

645
00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:52,039
have pegged this guy as the future first man In,

646
00:31:52,119 --> 00:31:57,079
rome much less a mass murderer. Tyrant but but he

647
00:31:57,079 --> 00:31:58,720
he starts off his career and that's how he ends

648
00:31:58,799 --> 00:32:01,680
up fighting For mari and all the other.

649
00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:04,839
Speaker 3: Stuff so what's interesting to be About solotu is he

650
00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:06,599
seems would you call him?

651
00:32:06,599 --> 00:32:09,240
Speaker 1: Intelligent oh, yeah, okay so.

652
00:32:09,839 --> 00:32:11,319
Speaker 6: Books smart and street?

653
00:32:11,359 --> 00:32:13,839
Speaker 3: Smart yeah, yeah, okay so he's very well rounded in that.

654
00:32:13,839 --> 00:32:17,359
Regard he gets the dictatorship and then writes a bunch

655
00:32:17,359 --> 00:32:18,599
of laws to prevent another.

656
00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:19,880
Speaker 1: Dictatorship, right.

657
00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:26,079
Speaker 3: But it seems like based on what happens immediately after,

658
00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:30,279
him actions speak louder than, laws, Right like the norm

659
00:32:30,359 --> 00:32:33,599
is broken now it can't be. Unbroken does he have

660
00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:35,960
Any is he actually just so afraid of that that

661
00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:38,359
he writes the laws or like WITH i, mean did

662
00:32:38,359 --> 00:32:40,839
he have any foresight into that? Whatsoever because it seems

663
00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:43,359
like obviously like he did he broke the law to

664
00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:47,480
write the, law which is at odds with, itself and

665
00:32:47,519 --> 00:32:51,440
then obviously the law immediately gets broken. Again so there's

666
00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:55,640
civil wars all the way up until The imperial Until

667
00:32:55,680 --> 00:32:59,680
august is essentially like was he just has he have.

668
00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:01,640
Speaker 1: His fingers like it's an outrageous?

669
00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:06,480
Speaker 5: Plan, yeah well it's it's an interesting story because two

670
00:33:06,599 --> 00:33:08,799
of the guys who end up so one of the

671
00:33:08,839 --> 00:33:11,119
key pieces of his legislation is this office of The

672
00:33:11,119 --> 00:33:12,599
tribune of The. Plubs we don't have to go in the,

673
00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:15,960
details but it's this kind of like populist. Office you

674
00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:18,680
can call an assembly and make a law kind of

675
00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:21,279
out of thin. Air, yeah and this you don't even

676
00:33:21,319 --> 00:33:23,720
have to ask The. Senate And saula is, like this

677
00:33:23,799 --> 00:33:27,720
is this is, Ridiculous this is chaotic these people have

678
00:33:27,799 --> 00:33:29,559
too much. Power we gotta we got to clip their.

679
00:33:29,599 --> 00:33:33,759
Wings he he basically abolishes all the important powers of

680
00:33:33,839 --> 00:33:36,680
this ancient office of The tribune of The, plubs but

681
00:33:37,759 --> 00:33:42,240
two of his subordinate, officers famous Men pompey And, crassus

682
00:33:43,279 --> 00:33:48,039
eight years After sola, dies they reinstate it because they

683
00:33:48,079 --> 00:33:50,359
want to use, it because it's, like it's, like how

684
00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:52,440
this is How marius rises the. Power you could get

685
00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:55,920
the people to like vote you a great military, command

686
00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:58,119
even if The senate's like this is a terrible. Idea,

687
00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:02,240
yeah the whole, city The marian, reforms, right the citizen.

688
00:34:02,319 --> 00:34:05,000
Army do you do like an end around with a ballot?

689
00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:09,159
Measure basically, yeah, yeah and SO i THINK i think

690
00:34:09,159 --> 00:34:12,719
it's you, know solid dies in seventy eight after he

691
00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:17,519
becomes dictator in eighty. TWO i, think so he doesn't

692
00:34:17,559 --> 00:34:21,800
like live long enough to really you, know firm up the. Constitution,

693
00:34:22,119 --> 00:34:25,119
yeah AND i think that he kind of like he,

694
00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:29,039
cared but he also cared about partying and having a

695
00:34:29,039 --> 00:34:29,920
good time because.

696
00:34:29,679 --> 00:34:31,079
Speaker 1: He retired to Fuck.

697
00:34:31,119 --> 00:34:33,920
Speaker 5: Island basically, basically, yeah it's like an early version Of,

698
00:34:34,679 --> 00:34:36,000
tiberius but.

699
00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:40,519
Speaker 3: He was doing, it presumably with mostly adultsh, infants.

700
00:34:40,159 --> 00:34:43,840
Speaker 5: Right, right, right you know he had his old actor, buddy,

701
00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:45,119
Yeah metrodorus or.

702
00:34:45,119 --> 00:34:46,400
Speaker 1: Whatever it was a lot.

703
00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:48,599
Speaker 3: Of generations in, There i'm. SURE i mean with Any

704
00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:51,960
roman you kind of have to give some some room

705
00:34:52,079 --> 00:34:55,639
for like some sort of like boy slave or.

706
00:34:55,639 --> 00:34:59,239
Speaker 5: Something, Yes but BUT i know that even then because

707
00:34:59,239 --> 00:35:01,639
we've done episodes on Like roman sexuality and stuff like,

708
00:35:01,679 --> 00:35:04,679
that and it was essentially like it's, fucked but like

709
00:35:04,719 --> 00:35:09,159
you can you can molest a fourteen year old slave

710
00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:11,000
and that you're not really going to get looked down

711
00:35:11,039 --> 00:35:13,960
on for, that, Right but if you fucked like a

712
00:35:14,079 --> 00:35:16,719
five year, old, yeah that would be they.

713
00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:18,239
Speaker 1: Would be, like no, crossing even if it was a.

714
00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:20,679
Slave they were like that is, insane. Right they have

715
00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:24,039
some some, standards some few.

716
00:35:25,119 --> 00:35:28,599
Speaker 2: Standards So solo just went To pompeii really just had

717
00:35:28,599 --> 00:35:29,159
a grand old.

718
00:35:29,199 --> 00:35:31,840
Speaker 5: Time, yeah he's around. There just that's that's where all

719
00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:33,039
the pleasure palaces.

720
00:35:33,079 --> 00:35:36,239
Speaker 3: Are, Yeah pompeii Was Panama City beach Before god was

721
00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:36,920
like that's too.

722
00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:39,599
Speaker 6: Much, right that's a good way to put.

723
00:35:39,599 --> 00:35:44,920
Speaker 5: It, Yeah AND i, mean like you, Know caesar's father

724
00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:47,159
in law has a villa. THERE i don't know if

725
00:35:47,159 --> 00:35:50,480
you've been following. This but the papyri that were buried

726
00:35:50,519 --> 00:35:53,480
By Mount, vesuvius there's like all these ancient scrolls is

727
00:35:53,599 --> 00:35:56,119
ancient library the decoding With.

728
00:35:56,280 --> 00:35:59,280
Speaker 1: Ai, OKAY i don't THINK i read. That it's google,

729
00:35:59,320 --> 00:35:59,639
it It's.

730
00:36:00,199 --> 00:36:04,679
Speaker 5: Herculaneum what's it called The Scroll prize or The Vesuvious,

731
00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:08,000
challenge and it's like rolled up and, hardened right, RIGHT

732
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:11,159
i have to LIKE x, right, yeah THEY x ray it,

733
00:36:11,719 --> 00:36:15,119
Anyway so all that's you, know everybody's got their nicest

734
00:36:15,199 --> 00:36:15,679
villas down.

735
00:36:15,679 --> 00:36:15,880
Speaker 6: There.

736
00:36:16,079 --> 00:36:18,840
Speaker 5: Anyway that's Where sulla goes and, uh you know he's

737
00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:20,519
not In rome for the last few years of his.

738
00:36:20,599 --> 00:36:24,519
Life uh, Yeah and you, KNOW i THINK i think

739
00:36:24,559 --> 00:36:29,079
his his like leadership. Mistake if you care, about you,

740
00:36:29,119 --> 00:36:33,639
know keeping the constitution you founded, stable you're gonna you're

741
00:36:33,639 --> 00:36:36,639
gonna stick, around, Right but but Instead sola goes off

742
00:36:36,679 --> 00:36:42,599
and he kind of entrusts things to lesser, man maybe his, minions, yeah.

743
00:36:42,199 --> 00:36:43,800
Speaker 6: Who were Less pompey And.

744
00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:44,280
Speaker 5: Crasses.

745
00:36:44,639 --> 00:36:48,639
Speaker 3: Yeah, Yeah And pompey was kind of a lesser. MAN i,

746
00:36:48,719 --> 00:36:50,519
MEAN i don't, know like he was kind of not

747
00:36:50,639 --> 00:36:51,280
the brightest.

748
00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:51,519
Speaker 2: Guy.

749
00:36:51,599 --> 00:36:55,639
Speaker 5: Right, well he's, competent, right he's you, know he's, reliable

750
00:36:56,760 --> 00:36:59,559
but you compare him To, sulah especially if you compare

751
00:36:59,599 --> 00:37:02,199
him to, See, yeah he just doesn't have he doesn't

752
00:37:02,199 --> 00:37:04,159
he's a good military, commander he doesn't have.

753
00:37:04,159 --> 00:37:05,679
Speaker 6: The political knack, right you.

754
00:37:05,719 --> 00:37:10,320
Speaker 5: Know, Uh and so he's always relying on smart guys

755
00:37:10,360 --> 00:37:12,320
around him to give him advice and he's kind of.

756
00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:21,719
Inscrutable but, YEAH i think later on When pompey became

757
00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:23,920
the greatest commander in, room he kind of didn't know

758
00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:24,440
what to do with.

759
00:37:24,480 --> 00:37:25,679
Speaker 1: It, yeah you.

760
00:37:25,679 --> 00:37:27,360
Speaker 5: Just wanted to go back out and find another. War,

761
00:37:27,519 --> 00:37:28,480
yeah it was like his happy.

762
00:37:28,519 --> 00:37:31,159
Speaker 3: Place he was almost like a patent type of. Guy,

763
00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:35,000
yeah like just really was only comfortable on the. Battlefield,

764
00:37:35,119 --> 00:37:37,599
yeah what are some before we get into some other,

765
00:37:37,599 --> 00:37:43,239
people what are some lesser known stories About sola that

766
00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:45,159
you Find and because we love to dive into the

767
00:37:45,159 --> 00:37:47,559
minutia of like did a whole episode on just like

768
00:37:47,639 --> 00:37:51,800
graffiti IN, pompeii because that's all hyper well preserved and

769
00:37:51,960 --> 00:37:53,760
all that graffiti is super. Funny and LIKE i, said

770
00:37:53,760 --> 00:37:57,199
we did the sort of essentially like, sexuality like a

771
00:37:57,239 --> 00:38:00,440
broad thing of sexuality and In rome and how like

772
00:38:01,119 --> 00:38:08,360
they thought like blowjobs were gross and. Pathetic, yeah like

773
00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:09,960
you were like if you if you if you were

774
00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:11,639
a guy and got a, blowjob it was you were

775
00:38:11,679 --> 00:38:16,960
like impotent, basically like you couldn't hard without assistance or

776
00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:20,320
something like. That and, yeah like all the slave stuff,

777
00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:22,599
obviously but so we like, That we like the. Fund

778
00:38:22,599 --> 00:38:26,320
there's just so many, funny little like societal quirks of that,

779
00:38:26,360 --> 00:38:31,480
culture that ancient pre even for the most Part christianity

780
00:38:31,920 --> 00:38:34,440
culture that that just has the norms are entirely.

781
00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:40,760
Speaker 5: Different, YEAH i think sla is, WELL i don't, know

782
00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:42,719
there's there's some funny stories about. Him when he's In.

783
00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:49,199
Greece so he he's like before he fights The Civil,

784
00:38:49,239 --> 00:38:51,039
war kind of in the middle of. It he gets

785
00:38:51,079 --> 00:38:54,639
sent off as a commander to go fight this enemy

786
00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:59,639
Of rome who's starting this Rebellion mithridates and they're fighting

787
00:38:59,639 --> 00:39:05,199
this war In greece and he's like Sieging. Athens he's

788
00:39:05,239 --> 00:39:10,920
gonna eventually just you, know almost, killed like slaughter everybody

789
00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:13,480
in the city after he. Capture, right it's a sad,

790
00:39:13,559 --> 00:39:19,000
story but he's got to he's got to like get

791
00:39:19,440 --> 00:39:24,159
funds to build more siege engines or. Something so he

792
00:39:24,679 --> 00:39:29,639
goes and he sends to the Oracle delphi and the you,

793
00:39:29,639 --> 00:39:31,559
know basically he wants to plunder the treasures of the

794
00:39:31,559 --> 00:39:34,440
temple At. Delphi all these these oracles are super, rich

795
00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:38,119
they've got all this these gold. Dedications and there's a

796
00:39:39,159 --> 00:39:42,039
story that he sends his emissary to go and demand

797
00:39:42,199 --> 00:39:45,760
funds from From, apollo the god, there and, uh you

798
00:39:45,760 --> 00:39:49,480
know he asks this emissary asks the council At, delphi you,

799
00:39:49,480 --> 00:39:52,440
know this is What sula, needs show your loyalty To.

800
00:39:52,519 --> 00:39:56,679
Rome and and the council comes back the next day

801
00:39:56,719 --> 00:39:58,360
and they're, like you, know one of our one of

802
00:39:58,360 --> 00:40:01,239
our councilmen was was walking the temple and he Heard

803
00:40:01,599 --> 00:40:06,199
apollo playing the liar from The temple Of, delphi a plaintive,

804
00:40:06,280 --> 00:40:10,119
song a sad. Song and So saulah's, emissary he's A greek,

805
00:40:10,119 --> 00:40:12,000
guy and he gets back and he's, Like, salah you,

806
00:40:12,039 --> 00:40:16,480
know the god gave a. Message he doesn't really think

807
00:40:16,480 --> 00:40:19,639
that it's appropriate for you to plunder the temple. Treasures

808
00:40:19,480 --> 00:40:22,079
he was playing the sad song and the temple and you,

809
00:40:22,079 --> 00:40:24,639
know as A, greek he's feeling like this would be very, impious.

810
00:40:24,840 --> 00:40:26,800
Right he really Wants salla to kind of drop. It,

811
00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:31,000
yeah And sallah, says, oh my, Friend, cappus you don't

812
00:40:31,039 --> 00:40:34,800
Realize apollo was playing a joyous. Song it was he

813
00:40:34,840 --> 00:40:38,559
was supporting our military. Campaign now go back and take take.

814
00:40:38,679 --> 00:40:42,119
Richly the god is on our. Side so you, know

815
00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:45,360
portents are something that he's really good at kind of.

816
00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:49,320
Manipulating there's another. One so the guy just goes. Back he's, like,

817
00:40:49,360 --> 00:40:54,039
No salah said it was, happy, Yeah and the council's

818
00:40:54,039 --> 00:40:57,239
like all, right and they just kind of cave and and,

819
00:40:57,320 --> 00:41:01,239
so you, know plundering the treasures The temple Of. Delfi

820
00:41:01,280 --> 00:41:07,480
they take this gigantic silver bowl That, creasus this Famous lydian,

821
00:41:07,559 --> 00:41:10,840
king dedicated like five hundred years. Earlier and it's like

822
00:41:11,159 --> 00:41:13,360
it's like if The Mona lisa were made of silver

823
00:41:13,599 --> 00:41:17,079
and it was a giant. Bowl he plundered, That, yeah

824
00:41:17,079 --> 00:41:19,039
and then they cut it up into four pieces because

825
00:41:19,039 --> 00:41:21,039
it was too big to carry on a. Donkey so

826
00:41:21,119 --> 00:41:23,960
he destroys it before he takes it off and melts

827
00:41:23,960 --> 00:41:26,320
it down and you, know turns it into coins or

828
00:41:26,320 --> 00:41:31,239
whatever in order to, weapons in order to like murder

829
00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:34,559
everybody In athens and, well you, know punish them for

830
00:41:34,599 --> 00:41:36,840
their sins of betraying because they were like A roman

831
00:41:36,880 --> 00:41:40,519
subject and this is Rough roman, justice that it's, finest.

832
00:41:40,280 --> 00:41:42,960
Speaker 2: Still better than throwing spaghetti sauce on The, Mona, Lisa,

833
00:41:43,320 --> 00:41:44,719
yeah For, earth For.

834
00:41:44,840 --> 00:41:46,920
Speaker 5: Earth at least there was a purpose to, it you,

835
00:41:46,960 --> 00:41:49,199
know at least there was some HIGHER.

836
00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:51,440
Speaker 3: I i went out and just let my car run

837
00:41:51,480 --> 00:41:55,199
for an hour AFTER i saw. That every time anyone

838
00:41:55,280 --> 00:41:58,440
throws any soup on, ART i just let my car run.

839
00:41:58,320 --> 00:42:02,159
Speaker 2: FROM i started buying night on fire gas. Appliances my

840
00:42:02,199 --> 00:42:04,639
toaster ons on the. Gas, now, yeah.

841
00:42:04,239 --> 00:42:07,039
Speaker 3: That's my reaction anytime that. HAPPENS i try to offset

842
00:42:07,079 --> 00:42:11,599
their environmentalism by just and NOT i don't even disagree

843
00:42:11,639 --> 00:42:15,360
with clean. ENERGY i just hate that so much that

844
00:42:15,440 --> 00:42:16,800
it makes me want to light the earth on.

845
00:42:16,880 --> 00:42:20,360
Speaker 5: FIRE i think we need to bring back Rough roman.

846
00:42:20,519 --> 00:42:23,519
Speaker 3: JUSTICE i you know what's funny about that is, that

847
00:42:23,679 --> 00:42:26,000
LIKE i read something once that The, ROMANS i, mean

848
00:42:26,039 --> 00:42:29,039
they were, assholes, right like they would really put it to,

849
00:42:29,159 --> 00:42:31,599
you but they saw themselves not even as.

850
00:42:31,639 --> 00:42:33,440
Speaker 1: Rough they're just like we're the most Just.

851
00:42:33,599 --> 00:42:36,519
Speaker 5: That's, yeah that's. True and this is the funny thing

852
00:42:36,519 --> 00:42:39,960
About solid, too because he's, always you, know no matter

853
00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:43,840
how bloodthirsty he gets or how it was just like

854
00:42:44,360 --> 00:42:49,199
crushingly overweening in. Victory he's always, like this is your

855
00:42:49,360 --> 00:42:51,599
this is what you. Deserved, yeah you asked for. It

856
00:42:52,119 --> 00:42:53,440
i've tried to tell you here it. Is.

857
00:42:53,639 --> 00:42:55,960
Speaker 3: Yeah they're just like upfront about it. There, yeah and

858
00:42:56,000 --> 00:42:59,280
they it's almost like lanisters pay their debts, right like

859
00:42:59,360 --> 00:43:01,480
it's just we're going to do this and if we,

860
00:43:01,559 --> 00:43:02,559
succeed it's going to.

861
00:43:02,599 --> 00:43:04,960
Speaker 1: Happen and then it happens and the other side is,

862
00:43:04,960 --> 00:43:07,559
like well come. On they're like, NO i mean we

863
00:43:07,719 --> 00:43:08,239
told you.

864
00:43:08,360 --> 00:43:11,559
Speaker 5: Yeah and and The athenians before they get, sacked you,

865
00:43:11,559 --> 00:43:16,800
know they come out to plead With sola and they

866
00:43:16,840 --> 00:43:19,400
try to tell him the. Story you, know our city

867
00:43:19,519 --> 00:43:23,159
was founded by theseus a thousand years ago And, eumolpus

868
00:43:23,199 --> 00:43:26,800
and you know that we defeated The, persians we saved The.

869
00:43:26,840 --> 00:43:31,119
Greeks we're. Liberators And sauwa's, like shut. UP i didn't

870
00:43:31,119 --> 00:43:34,480
come here for a history. LESSON i came to subdue your. Rebels,

871
00:43:34,800 --> 00:43:37,039
now are you going to make peace on my terms or?

872
00:43:37,079 --> 00:43:40,599
Not and they're, like, sir they go back in their.

873
00:43:40,599 --> 00:43:44,719
City they don't make the. Peace so. Perfect he he's

874
00:43:44,800 --> 00:43:48,480
both you, know a great appreciator of. Culture you, know

875
00:43:48,599 --> 00:43:51,199
he knows all these, stories, right but he's not going

876
00:43:51,280 --> 00:43:55,000
to be duped by, it by sentimentality because everybody else.

877
00:43:55,079 --> 00:43:57,400
Was everybody's expecting him to go really easy On. Athens you,

878
00:43:57,440 --> 00:43:59,239
know it's a great city of culture and learning and,

879
00:43:59,360 --> 00:44:02,280
art and that's exactly why he makes an example of. Them,

880
00:44:02,360 --> 00:44:04,920
yeah so not to be fucked.

881
00:44:04,920 --> 00:44:06,320
Speaker 1: With, essentially.

882
00:44:08,239 --> 00:44:08,719
Speaker 5: Where is he?

883
00:44:08,800 --> 00:44:12,039
Speaker 1: Buried, Right he's Like.

884
00:44:12,119 --> 00:44:13,880
Speaker 3: Alexander they don't know where his tomb, is which is

885
00:44:13,960 --> 00:44:15,000
especially weird because.

886
00:44:14,760 --> 00:44:17,440
Speaker 4: Apparently hopefully it's not Like, Alexander yeah was.

887
00:44:17,760 --> 00:44:18,760
Speaker 1: Alive, no.

888
00:44:20,239 --> 00:44:23,239
Speaker 3: But uh, yeah apparently his tomb disappeared even though HE

889
00:44:23,400 --> 00:44:25,960
A i guess allegedly had a big one, yeah AND

890
00:44:26,039 --> 00:44:29,360
b had a big funeral back when people were writing things.

891
00:44:29,360 --> 00:44:33,079
Speaker 5: Down, YEAH i think they they made a huge effigy

892
00:44:33,159 --> 00:44:37,239
of him an incense for his, funeral like a giant you,

893
00:44:37,280 --> 00:44:42,039
know crusty incense. Sullah, yeah and they burned it and

894
00:44:42,079 --> 00:44:45,039
then like the winds died down and then it started,

895
00:44:45,159 --> 00:44:47,000
raining and it was, like, oh this is a bad

896
00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:48,800
Important BUT i DON'T i.

897
00:44:48,760 --> 00:44:50,159
Speaker 6: Don't think that we've ever found his.

898
00:44:50,239 --> 00:44:50,679
Speaker 5: Tomb we.

899
00:44:50,760 --> 00:44:53,239
Speaker 3: Haven't that's Why i'm shocked by that as compared to,

900
00:44:53,360 --> 00:44:55,880
LIKE i, MEAN i feel like any most big people

901
00:44:55,880 --> 00:44:58,079
from that, time they relatively known where they're.

902
00:44:58,119 --> 00:45:01,880
Speaker 5: Buried, yeah we've got we've got this grave monument From

903
00:45:03,039 --> 00:45:08,159
Scipio africanus', mom, No scipio's, granddaughter who's the mom of

904
00:45:08,159 --> 00:45:13,159
the Gracky, like you can go See cornelia's. Grave, well

905
00:45:13,199 --> 00:45:16,440
it's like a pedestal of a statue or. Something there's

906
00:45:16,480 --> 00:45:19,719
all this amazing, stuff obviously the mausoleum Of augustus and

907
00:45:20,280 --> 00:45:22,000
the tomb of The, scipios but nothing For.

908
00:45:22,119 --> 00:45:23,480
Speaker 6: Solo you, know it's.

909
00:45:23,519 --> 00:45:24,239
Speaker 5: Weird it is.

910
00:45:24,239 --> 00:45:26,679
Speaker 3: Weird maybe that's one of the reasons he's kinda and

911
00:45:26,719 --> 00:45:30,199
because ALSO i guess his Did plutarch take from his

912
00:45:30,360 --> 00:45:32,039
biography or autobiography or?

913
00:45:32,079 --> 00:45:34,480
Speaker 1: Whatever, yeah because his autobiography is.

914
00:45:34,639 --> 00:45:38,000
Speaker 5: Gone, Yeah AND i think this is one of his,

915
00:45:38,280 --> 00:45:41,960
superpowers is. Storytelling you. Know, yeah he's practicing in his, twenties,

916
00:45:42,679 --> 00:45:47,800
right and you, know the raunchy. Theater but he ends

917
00:45:47,880 --> 00:45:51,320
up writing his own autobiography or his memoirs and they're.

918
00:45:51,360 --> 00:45:53,639
Lost BUT i think this is the source for so

919
00:45:53,719 --> 00:45:55,920
many of the wacky stories that we get About. Solo,

920
00:45:56,079 --> 00:45:59,760
yeah you, know The delphi, thing there's, Another there's all

921
00:45:59,760 --> 00:46:04,119
these importanse you. Know it was Said. Flutarcar it was

922
00:46:04,119 --> 00:46:06,760
said That sola had a. Dream it's Like sola said

923
00:46:06,760 --> 00:46:08,159
that he had a dream right right there with The.

924
00:46:08,199 --> 00:46:11,199
God the goddess visits him and she puts a lightning

925
00:46:11,199 --> 00:46:14,239
bolt in his, hands and she points to his enemies lined,

926
00:46:14,320 --> 00:46:16,480
up and he just throws lightning bolts at them all

927
00:46:16,519 --> 00:46:18,519
and destroys them, all and he knows That god is

928
00:46:18,559 --> 00:46:19,599
on His he was a big.

929
00:46:19,679 --> 00:46:21,880
Speaker 3: Dreamer allegedly he knew he was gonna die of liver

930
00:46:21,960 --> 00:46:25,480
failure from a, dream, right but that just feels like

931
00:46:25,840 --> 00:46:28,679
accurate to his. Life, yeah like he was just feels

932
00:46:28,719 --> 00:46:30,960
like you make that. Happen, yeah he's drunk for the

933
00:46:31,000 --> 00:46:31,880
million day in a, row and it.

934
00:46:31,880 --> 00:46:32,679
Speaker 1: Was like he was gonna kill.

935
00:46:32,719 --> 00:46:36,400
Speaker 6: ME i can make that. Happen yeah about?

936
00:46:36,880 --> 00:46:37,800
Speaker 4: Wine, yeah.

937
00:46:38,079 --> 00:46:44,679
Speaker 3: YEAH i wanted to talk about Obviously caesar as, well

938
00:46:44,719 --> 00:46:45,880
because it's talking About.

939
00:46:45,960 --> 00:46:47,000
Speaker 1: Rome so there's what it.

940
00:46:47,039 --> 00:46:47,679
Speaker 5: IS i.

941
00:46:47,840 --> 00:46:49,480
Speaker 1: Have here's my take On.

942
00:46:49,599 --> 00:46:52,519
Speaker 3: CAESAR i want your opinion on this BECAUSE i you

943
00:46:52,960 --> 00:46:54,920
actually know what you're talking, about And i'm just a fucking.

944
00:46:55,000 --> 00:47:01,519
Guy do We my opinion is we pretty much entirely

945
00:47:02,639 --> 00:47:05,800
View caesar are like starting point On caesar as a,

946
00:47:05,800 --> 00:47:10,840
Person our almost default view is still based on two

947
00:47:10,840 --> 00:47:12,679
thousand year Old augustine.

948
00:47:12,679 --> 00:47:17,400
Speaker 1: Propaganda m m. Hm like it's really not an accurate

949
00:47:19,480 --> 00:47:21,760
taking of his life and who he was as a.

950
00:47:21,760 --> 00:47:24,480
Speaker 3: PERSON i mean the fact, that, like and it's gone

951
00:47:24,480 --> 00:47:25,519
all it's permeating all the way through.

952
00:47:25,559 --> 00:47:28,159
Speaker 1: History, Right you've Got William shakespeare writing about.

953
00:47:28,239 --> 00:47:32,639
Speaker 3: Him several countries that have nothing to do With rome

954
00:47:32,719 --> 00:47:39,280
of name their Leaders, caesar Like kaiser And, czar and

955
00:47:39,320 --> 00:47:41,280
THEN i mean he was even even in like the

956
00:47:41,360 --> 00:47:43,960
Show rome from two thousand and, six two thousand and.

957
00:47:43,960 --> 00:47:47,679
Speaker 1: Seven he's fucking. Cool, Yeah and honestly it.

958
00:47:47,719 --> 00:47:51,000
Speaker 3: Seems justified in the narrative of that story for the most,

959
00:47:51,000 --> 00:47:55,039
part or at least no less or more justified than anyone.

960
00:47:55,320 --> 00:48:00,880
Speaker 1: Else, Right but isn't he kind of a huge piece of?

961
00:48:00,920 --> 00:48:03,480
Speaker 3: Shit like that's WHERE i actually live with. Him is

962
00:48:03,760 --> 00:48:06,360
he brought down The? Republic he. Didn't he was never

963
00:48:06,360 --> 00:48:10,159
going to give up the. Dictatorship and the biggest thing with,

964
00:48:10,199 --> 00:48:13,320
me and this is one thing That sullah knew that

965
00:48:13,360 --> 00:48:16,599
you mentioned, earlier and one thing that always comes out

966
00:48:16,679 --> 00:48:23,719
is he was like openly insanely psychotically. Ambitious is the

967
00:48:23,760 --> 00:48:28,719
story about him weeping at An alexander statue true or

968
00:48:29,159 --> 00:48:32,199
just a? Myth, like, essentially for those who know the,

969
00:48:32,239 --> 00:48:35,400
stories he goes to An alexander statue and starts crying

970
00:48:35,440 --> 00:48:38,039
because he was already a little bit older Than alexander

971
00:48:38,039 --> 00:48:39,519
and an accomplished.

972
00:48:39,519 --> 00:48:41,360
Speaker 1: Nothing as opposed to all the.

973
00:48:41,400 --> 00:48:44,760
Speaker 3: Things so essentially, like he seems like a man that

974
00:48:44,800 --> 00:48:48,480
from the beginning wanted his name written at the top

975
00:48:48,519 --> 00:48:50,320
of the history, books regardless of what that.

976
00:48:50,280 --> 00:48:54,639
Speaker 1: Cost anyone or, anything including his own. Country that to me.

977
00:48:55,239 --> 00:48:58,159
Speaker 3: Sounds like what the starting point For caesar should, be

978
00:48:58,440 --> 00:49:02,119
but instead it's just like essentially what we.

979
00:49:02,199 --> 00:49:06,199
Speaker 2: Have but he Nicknamed cleopatra The Golden, throat so that's pretty,

980
00:49:06,239 --> 00:49:06,679
sick that.

981
00:49:06,760 --> 00:49:08,320
Speaker 1: Is, Look i'm not saying you didn't do anything.

982
00:49:08,320 --> 00:49:11,440
Speaker 4: Cool he bribe, pirates, right just hung, out.

983
00:49:12,079 --> 00:49:19,800
Speaker 5: Conquered, france had a lot of great. Girlfriends, yeah a lots.

984
00:49:19,960 --> 00:49:26,320
Wives good good. Question i'm, well SO i think if

985
00:49:26,320 --> 00:49:30,079
you're going to Take caesar's, side and SO i MEAN

986
00:49:30,239 --> 00:49:34,079
i on my, SHOW i basically serially have to tell

987
00:49:34,119 --> 00:49:37,440
the biographies of men who were mortal, enemies, RIGHT i have,

988
00:49:37,480 --> 00:49:39,719
to like see things from their perspective and kind of

989
00:49:39,719 --> 00:49:42,239
get on their, side AND i try to like tell

990
00:49:42,280 --> 00:49:46,400
the story from their from their. Perspective BUT i think

991
00:49:46,440 --> 00:49:51,679
That CAESAR a is as ambitious as anybody in. History

992
00:49:51,920 --> 00:49:56,800
like he's tip, top like gonna make this. Happen his

993
00:49:57,039 --> 00:49:58,519
The caesar story on like.

994
00:49:58,480 --> 00:50:01,719
Speaker 1: A level of like holy and or something like, that.

995
00:50:01,480 --> 00:50:03,519
Speaker 6: Where it's totally man of.

996
00:50:03,559 --> 00:50:06,800
Speaker 5: Destiny this is WHAT i was built, for born For

997
00:50:06,960 --> 00:50:12,000
alexander for that. Matter, yeah, right but he's always. Able

998
00:50:12,079 --> 00:50:16,480
so Like Dan carlin called his series on The Celtic

999
00:50:16,760 --> 00:50:22,039
wars The Celtic, holocaust, right, right maybe he was just

1000
00:50:22,079 --> 00:50:27,480
a mass murderer hitler in. Disguise you, know he's justifying

1001
00:50:27,480 --> 00:50:29,880
it to himself at least as doing it in the

1002
00:50:29,920 --> 00:50:30,159
name Of.

1003
00:50:30,239 --> 00:50:32,079
Speaker 6: Rome AND i think.

1004
00:50:31,920 --> 00:50:37,280
Speaker 5: That he's so he's a populist as opposed to the aristocratic.

1005
00:50:37,320 --> 00:50:41,800
Party he's taking on a lot of. CORRUPTION i, mean

1006
00:50:42,280 --> 00:50:45,400
he's challenging a lot of the kind of you, know

1007
00:50:46,679 --> 00:50:50,400
The roman. Elite they're they're super, rich they're out of,

1008
00:50:50,440 --> 00:50:53,679
touch a lot of them are fat and not that

1009
00:50:53,760 --> 00:50:56,920
good at what they're supposed to be, doing and they're

1010
00:50:56,960 --> 00:51:00,119
really jealous of their. Power so you, know he's got a,

1011
00:51:00,199 --> 00:51:02,639
story at least in his, head that these people don't

1012
00:51:02,639 --> 00:51:06,000
deserve the privileges that they, have and they're trying to

1013
00:51:06,039 --> 00:51:09,639
tamp down anybody who would challenge their. Prerogative, so if

1014
00:51:09,679 --> 00:51:11,719
you want to take his, SIDE i think he's a

1015
00:51:11,840 --> 00:51:15,039
kind of he's an, interesting kind of cool outsider that

1016
00:51:15,480 --> 00:51:19,840
wants to shake up The roman. System and HE i

1017
00:51:19,840 --> 00:51:23,960
think he has this perspective. Now, granted so that The

1018
00:51:24,079 --> 00:51:29,599
ROMAN i don't know state is not just the city Of,

1019
00:51:29,679 --> 00:51:33,079
rome but it's all the provinces, too and he wants

1020
00:51:33,159 --> 00:51:37,559
to bring in provincial reforms to cut down on. Corruption,

1021
00:51:38,519 --> 00:51:42,000
granted he, does, like you, know kill possibly a million

1022
00:51:42,079 --> 00:51:44,079
galls in the conquest.

1023
00:51:43,599 --> 00:51:46,320
Speaker 1: Of call that Number i've heard like disputed or.

1024
00:51:46,360 --> 00:51:48,119
Speaker 3: Whatever BUT i feel like that's NOT i, MEAN i

1025
00:51:48,159 --> 00:51:50,159
feel like that's a pretty like reasonable.

1026
00:51:50,239 --> 00:51:53,559
Speaker 1: Number it's like an eight year long war all Of,

1027
00:51:53,559 --> 00:51:54,920
France that's What i'm.

1028
00:51:54,840 --> 00:51:57,480
Speaker 6: Saying kunt of like famine and you.

1029
00:51:57,360 --> 00:51:59,000
Speaker 1: Know secondary, effects secondary.

1030
00:51:59,000 --> 00:52:00,480
Speaker 5: Effects why don't we out those?

1031
00:52:00,559 --> 00:52:03,199
Speaker 2: Numbers but whenever A chinese war, happens, right they just

1032
00:52:03,199 --> 00:52:05,159
like a million people, died like oh, yeah, probably, yeah,

1033
00:52:05,159 --> 00:52:05,800
probably we don't.

1034
00:52:05,800 --> 00:52:07,960
Speaker 3: Care sounds about, Right but like it's it's some people are,

1035
00:52:07,960 --> 00:52:08,719
like it was a long time.

1036
00:52:08,719 --> 00:52:09,880
Speaker 1: Ago there are two million.

1037
00:52:09,599 --> 00:52:11,960
Speaker 3: People but it's, like, yeah but it's the population Of

1038
00:52:12,000 --> 00:52:15,119
austin spread through all Of france, essentially which is not

1039
00:52:15,239 --> 00:52:17,239
that out of the.

1040
00:52:17,320 --> 00:52:19,079
Speaker 1: Question, yeah for that time.

1041
00:52:18,960 --> 00:52:23,440
Speaker 5: PERIOD i think IT'S i think it's very. PLAUSIBLE i,

1042
00:52:23,480 --> 00:52:27,639
mean but it's not that he was going in there

1043
00:52:27,719 --> 00:52:30,920
and like genociding, them right, right right, Right he's always

1044
00:52:30,920 --> 00:52:34,360
going to give him a chance to make. Terms he's

1045
00:52:34,440 --> 00:52:38,800
and you, know you could, say, hey the reason that

1046
00:52:38,840 --> 00:52:41,760
The gauls don't want him there is because they want

1047
00:52:41,800 --> 00:52:44,360
to fight their own wars amongst each other and kill

1048
00:52:44,400 --> 00:52:48,000
and name and decapitate each, other because that's what they.

1049
00:52:48,039 --> 00:52:51,800
Do that's how they kind of you, know that's the

1050
00:52:51,840 --> 00:52:54,960
game that they're. Playing These gallic nobles are like constantly

1051
00:52:54,960 --> 00:52:58,960
warring for supremacy amongst. Themselves, Right so they probably wouldn't

1052
00:52:58,960 --> 00:53:01,119
have killed that many people in that shortest span of.

1053
00:53:01,119 --> 00:53:05,199
Time but maybe you could say that he's spared further

1054
00:53:05,320 --> 00:53:08,440
lives by you, know imposing The roman peace for. Generations

1055
00:53:09,320 --> 00:53:11,920
BUT i assume at some point there was a population

1056
00:53:12,000 --> 00:53:15,000
boom after all the infrastructure and everything came in and.

1057
00:53:16,320 --> 00:53:17,320
Speaker 6: It would have taken a long.

1058
00:53:17,360 --> 00:53:22,440
Speaker 5: Time yeah, yeah, YEAH i knew The Roman france becomes

1059
00:53:22,480 --> 00:53:28,239
really wealthy and cultured and you, know, so and they

1060
00:53:28,239 --> 00:53:29,679
would they did kind of pose a threat To.

1061
00:53:29,719 --> 00:53:30,079
Speaker 6: Roum it.

1062
00:53:30,119 --> 00:53:32,199
Speaker 5: Wasn't it was only in the generation Of soul And

1063
00:53:32,239 --> 00:53:36,800
marius that a, massive massive army Of celts And germans

1064
00:53:36,840 --> 00:53:40,199
just like swooped into Northern italy and was like Threatening.

1065
00:53:40,280 --> 00:53:43,360
Rome so there was a real kind of military reason

1066
00:53:43,400 --> 00:53:46,639
to do. This was it WAS adbc or you, know SIXTY.

1067
00:53:46,679 --> 00:53:47,960
Bc that was how they did.

1068
00:53:47,960 --> 00:53:51,119
Speaker 3: Things, Again that's WHY i don't even talk about The

1069
00:53:51,199 --> 00:53:53,800
celtic genoside or, whatever because that to me is just, like,

1070
00:53:54,239 --> 00:53:54,760
well shit.

1071
00:53:54,840 --> 00:53:56,519
Speaker 1: Happened she happens a thousand years after.

1072
00:53:56,559 --> 00:53:58,880
Speaker 3: That no, One no one Thinks Genghis khan is the

1073
00:53:58,880 --> 00:54:02,079
greatest monster in, history, right even THOUGH i mean goddamn,

1074
00:54:02,159 --> 00:54:06,199
right like he killed a lot of People, Baghdad, yeah,

1075
00:54:06,280 --> 00:54:08,719
yeah like nuked. Bag actually was even him or was

1076
00:54:08,760 --> 00:54:09,320
he allied by that?

1077
00:54:09,360 --> 00:54:13,519
Speaker 4: Point, no they did The cohn, family yeah, yeah.

1078
00:54:13,639 --> 00:54:16,079
Speaker 1: Yeah but back To. Caeesaron that that's WHY.

1079
00:54:15,880 --> 00:54:18,840
Speaker 3: I only hold sort of the political stuff Against caesar

1080
00:54:18,920 --> 00:54:21,800
for the most, part because from the perspective.

1081
00:54:21,280 --> 00:54:23,639
Speaker 4: Of like he is sort of almost like a great

1082
00:54:23,719 --> 00:54:24,679
man in political.

1083
00:54:24,719 --> 00:54:27,159
Speaker 3: HISTORY i, mean the military history is almost, Unimpeachable like

1084
00:54:27,159 --> 00:54:29,039
he was a great, general, RIGHT i don't think that's.

1085
00:54:29,480 --> 00:54:38,320
Debatable but the political, stuff the ambition over, country that's

1086
00:54:38,400 --> 00:54:39,920
kind of HOW i look at.

1087
00:54:39,960 --> 00:54:42,880
Speaker 1: Him, yeah but that is absolutely.

1088
00:54:42,400 --> 00:54:47,039
Speaker 3: Not what the starting point is for most people In western.

1089
00:54:47,079 --> 00:54:48,679
History and it seems to me that that has to

1090
00:54:48,760 --> 00:54:52,360
go all the way back To augustus sort of justifying

1091
00:54:52,400 --> 00:54:53,320
his position.

1092
00:54:53,000 --> 00:54:53,519
Speaker 1: As the heir To.

1093
00:54:53,559 --> 00:54:55,880
Speaker 5: Caesar and, well the first guy to do it Was caesar,

1094
00:54:56,000 --> 00:55:00,199
himself because so he wrote this commentary on this a

1095
00:55:00,280 --> 00:55:03,480
wars is with his own, pen and you, know it's

1096
00:55:03,599 --> 00:55:06,559
kind of Like Selah caesar is his own greatest. Propagandist

1097
00:55:07,360 --> 00:55:10,280
BUT i think that he has a pretty good. Case

1098
00:55:11,119 --> 00:55:15,239
so in the in the breakup of you, know in

1099
00:55:15,280 --> 00:55:19,159
the breakdown before The Civil, war he really. Does he

1100
00:55:19,559 --> 00:55:24,000
really tries to avoid a, war and the only alternative

1101
00:55:24,039 --> 00:55:28,119
he had to not to like fighting the war was to,

1102
00:55:28,320 --> 00:55:33,760
basically you, know self, cancel to say all, Right i'm

1103
00:55:33,800 --> 00:55:38,199
no longer relevant In roman. Politics and so he's motivated

1104
00:55:38,199 --> 00:55:40,199
by this sense of, like, HEY i JUST i just

1105
00:55:40,880 --> 00:55:44,239
conquered all of gall for you guys and brought tons

1106
00:55:44,280 --> 00:55:49,280
of money into the. Treasury you, KNOW I i've made

1107
00:55:49,639 --> 00:55:54,239
the poor rich blah blah. Blah i've accomplished, BASICALLY i.

1108
00:55:54,360 --> 00:55:57,679
HAVE i have done better in the game than anybody alive.

1109
00:55:57,440 --> 00:56:02,239
Speaker 3: Today probably the biggest win since what Maybe, skippyo.

1110
00:56:02,280 --> 00:56:06,079
Speaker 5: Yeah skippyo Or pompy, arguably but you know that was

1111
00:56:06,239 --> 00:56:11,000
fifteen years. Earlier and Now pompy's kind of an old,

1112
00:56:11,039 --> 00:56:14,239
man And caesar's, like, HEY i deserve at least as.

1113
00:56:14,199 --> 00:56:15,079
Speaker 6: Much credit as this.

1114
00:56:15,119 --> 00:56:18,639
Speaker 5: Guy and so by saying you're going to prosecute me

1115
00:56:18,719 --> 00:56:19,480
to death.

1116
00:56:20,800 --> 00:56:22,639
Speaker 6: Or you, know.

1117
00:56:24,880 --> 00:56:26,800
Speaker 5: UNLESS i fight a civil, war it's kind of the

1118
00:56:26,880 --> 00:56:30,000
choice he's faced. With you, know he's, saying all, right

1119
00:56:31,000 --> 00:56:33,079
is this game a real? Game do we have rules

1120
00:56:33,119 --> 00:56:36,440
to this game of the like? Honor is there is

1121
00:56:36,480 --> 00:56:39,960
there honor In? Rome? Left and SO i think that

1122
00:56:40,239 --> 00:56:44,199
it was his opponents and. Transigence i'm, like. Proceed So

1123
00:56:44,239 --> 00:56:47,239
i've told a story From pompey's. PERSPECTIVE i Think pompey

1124
00:56:47,400 --> 00:56:50,880
kind of took bad Advice. CATO i told a story

1125
00:56:50,880 --> 00:56:54,280
From cato's. PERSPECTIVE i Think cato was kind of high

1126
00:56:54,280 --> 00:56:57,639
on his own supply about the dignity of the republic

1127
00:56:58,000 --> 00:56:58,639
and really it.

1128
00:56:58,599 --> 00:57:00,800
Speaker 1: Was blind to what they realities of it.

1129
00:57:00,840 --> 00:57:03,920
Speaker 5: Were, yeah and like that that it's this kind of

1130
00:57:03,920 --> 00:57:07,320
personal factional hatred that the that the nobles have Towards.

1131
00:57:07,320 --> 00:57:12,039
Caesar Uh, SO i don't, KNOW i THINK i think

1132
00:57:12,039 --> 00:57:13,400
his enemies had it coming.

1133
00:57:16,280 --> 00:57:18,039
Speaker 4: Enemies or everybody that was older Than.

1134
00:57:18,079 --> 00:57:20,920
Speaker 2: Caesar but just like OLD nba players hating no CURRENT

1135
00:57:21,000 --> 00:57:22,559
nba players Like lebron or.

1136
00:57:22,599 --> 00:57:24,639
Speaker 5: Something, yeah it's like. That it's like it's like a

1137
00:57:24,639 --> 00:57:28,440
bunch of, uh you, know has been well maybe maybe

1138
00:57:28,440 --> 00:57:30,559
they were great in their, day right right right right,

1139
00:57:30,639 --> 00:57:33,719
now they're like these young bucks don't, know they don't

1140
00:57:33,719 --> 00:57:38,039
have respect for the old. Ways and and and it's like,

1141
00:57:38,239 --> 00:57:41,719
envy you, know they if he, wins they're they're gonna

1142
00:57:41,719 --> 00:57:43,480
Have they're going to lose their. Influence they're not going

1143
00:57:43,559 --> 00:57:48,519
to get put on the you, KNOW Nba draft picks

1144
00:57:48,679 --> 00:57:51,559
right chat. Show they don't get they don't get a

1145
00:57:51,559 --> 00:57:56,239
triumph they don't they don't get the. Triumphs, yeah and

1146
00:57:56,239 --> 00:57:58,440
and so he kind of he was a threat to them,

1147
00:57:58,480 --> 00:58:02,400
politically they're gonna like go and killed. Him he's a merciful.

1148
00:58:02,400 --> 00:58:06,320
Guy caesar's famous. Clemency, yeah he spares his. Enemies he's,

1149
00:58:06,360 --> 00:58:07,039
like he's very.

1150
00:58:07,079 --> 00:58:08,719
Speaker 1: Mild he doesn't want to go to the solo.

1151
00:58:08,800 --> 00:58:10,679
Speaker 5: Route he doesn't want to go to the solar. Routes

1152
00:58:10,800 --> 00:58:13,039
he wants to be the. Unsolo and you, know he

1153
00:58:13,079 --> 00:58:15,599
can be, ruthless but he also knows he's got a

1154
00:58:15,679 --> 00:58:19,639
legacy to. Preserve and so and think he makes good

1155
00:58:19,639 --> 00:58:21,760
on his word and nobody thought he, would but he.

1156
00:58:21,800 --> 00:58:23,760
Did you, know he. Doesn't he doesn't slaughter his. Enemies

1157
00:58:23,800 --> 00:58:25,000
act it was the dictator for.

1158
00:58:25,079 --> 00:58:27,639
Speaker 1: Life, then kind of a thing of self, preservation.

1159
00:58:28,599 --> 00:58:34,960
Speaker 5: You might. Think but, okay to be fair for your

1160
00:58:35,000 --> 00:58:39,039
for your. Case, Yeah caesar's a. MEGALOMANIAC i think once

1161
00:58:39,079 --> 00:58:42,679
he wins the civil war and all of his enemies

1162
00:58:42,679 --> 00:58:45,960
are kind of. Scattered he's he's been spending a lot

1163
00:58:45,960 --> 00:58:50,079
of time With cleopatra In. Egypt you, know she's a,

1164
00:58:50,159 --> 00:58:54,719
queen she's maybe a, GODDESS i, believe you, know she's

1165
00:58:54,800 --> 00:58:58,639
she's the pharaoh or the. Pharaoh, yes, Uh and so

1166
00:58:59,119 --> 00:59:03,400
he starts to, think, hey maybe maybe this is a better,

1167
00:59:03,400 --> 00:59:06,519
system or Maybe i'm the chosen one or.

1168
00:59:06,519 --> 00:59:09,920
Speaker 6: SOMETHING i, mean it would.

1169
00:59:09,679 --> 00:59:12,519
Speaker 5: Be hard not to believe that if you were a Successful,

1170
00:59:13,719 --> 00:59:17,119
yeah because he had. WON i think what he did

1171
00:59:17,199 --> 00:59:19,199
was harder than What alexander. Did i'm not saying that

1172
00:59:19,199 --> 00:59:23,119
he's greater Than, alexander, right but you, know he had

1173
00:59:23,119 --> 00:59:26,559
to win in politics and in propaganda in a way

1174
00:59:26,599 --> 00:59:30,440
That alexander didn't have. To, so you, know you're asking

1175
00:59:30,480 --> 00:59:33,800
a guy who's kind of slowly converted to being A caesar.

1176
00:59:33,920 --> 00:59:36,519
BRO i THINK i think he deserves a second. Look

1177
00:59:36,559 --> 00:59:39,840
AND i THINK Hbo, rome you, know they were too

1178
00:59:39,920 --> 00:59:45,000
mean To. Cicero cicero's becomes a kind of fruity. Waffler,

1179
00:59:46,800 --> 00:59:50,719
YEAH i think that was, Unfair BUT i think they

1180
00:59:50,719 --> 00:59:51,360
Got caesar just.

1181
00:59:51,440 --> 00:59:54,480
Speaker 6: Right he was a great. Manifestory, okay, okay.

1182
00:59:55,800 --> 00:59:59,440
Speaker 3: What are Some it's more of a broad. Question what

1183
00:59:59,480 --> 01:00:05,599
are some underrated villains in the history Of? Rome like

1184
01:00:05,599 --> 01:00:09,239
we obviously Know nero and we've discussed The Little fishes

1185
01:00:09,360 --> 01:00:14,760
to some extent With. Tiberius everyone knows commonists From gladiator

1186
01:00:14,840 --> 01:00:15,719
and stuff like, that.

1187
01:00:15,760 --> 01:00:18,280
Speaker 4: Or actually their actual enemies Like. Cannibal, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1188
01:00:18,320 --> 01:00:21,400
Speaker 3: Yeah what are some underrated even like weird or, whatever

1189
01:00:21,519 --> 01:00:22,880
like villains that tickle.

1190
01:00:22,960 --> 01:00:24,880
Speaker 5: You you, know we need to have a series On

1191
01:00:24,960 --> 01:00:29,039
mithridates Of. Pontus so this is the guy That slah was. Fighting,

1192
01:00:29,159 --> 01:00:34,079
yeah and the dude is still alive twenty years, later

1193
01:00:34,519 --> 01:00:38,039
and he's been basically waging war On rome it soft

1194
01:00:38,400 --> 01:00:43,519
like cold wars hot wars for almost three. Decades pompey

1195
01:00:43,639 --> 01:00:48,519
finally gets, them or Actually pompy like you, know kind

1196
01:00:48,519 --> 01:00:50,639
of defeats him a couple of times in, battle and

1197
01:00:50,679 --> 01:00:52,800
THEN i think it's like mithree. Days his son ends

1198
01:00:52,880 --> 01:00:55,239
up betraying him and he ends up like taking. Poison sad,

1199
01:00:55,239 --> 01:01:02,079
story but that guy, WAS i, mean so he he's

1200
01:01:02,119 --> 01:01:05,719
like six.' three he wears an a lion, skin hat

1201
01:01:06,239 --> 01:01:08,760
like a lion, head hat Like. LIKE hercules i was about,

1202
01:01:08,760 --> 01:01:10,599
to say was that a Nod?

1203
01:01:10,679 --> 01:01:11,239
Speaker 1: To, hercules.

1204
01:01:11,360 --> 01:01:15,960
Speaker 5: Yeah. Totally yeah he was always afraid of, being poisoned

1205
01:01:16,360 --> 01:01:19,119
and so he took all this like light doses of

1206
01:01:19,159 --> 01:01:22,280
poison when he was younger because because his mom was

1207
01:01:22,280 --> 01:01:25,880
always trying to. Kill him, OH okay i think she

1208
01:01:26,079 --> 01:01:29,000
liked the other son, or something and he like develops

1209
01:01:29,000 --> 01:01:32,159
this incredible tolerance towards, towards poison so he has to take.

1210
01:01:32,159 --> 01:01:38,000
A lot when he, kills himself he Almost. Defeats rome

1211
01:01:38,280 --> 01:01:41,960
he makes this alliance with This rebel sertorious Who's. In

1212
01:01:42,000 --> 01:01:47,719
spain there's this one night where he murders Eighty thousand

1213
01:01:48,119 --> 01:01:51,880
Romans and Italians, in asia like All, throughout asia they

1214
01:01:51,920 --> 01:01:55,960
like they keep the. Conspiracy secret and then one night. A,

1215
01:01:56,000 --> 01:01:58,960
purge yeah It's like, cristall knock, you know like going

1216
01:01:59,039 --> 01:02:03,960
in and Just, murdering romans women and Children, in turkey Basically. In,

1217
01:02:04,000 --> 01:02:10,800
turkey yeah he pours gold down the throat Of, corrupt

1218
01:02:10,920 --> 01:02:15,519
no not This Guy, mannius aquilias A corrupt. Roman governor So,

1219
01:02:15,719 --> 01:02:19,440
before crassus Before the persian king did It, to crissis if,

1220
01:02:19,440 --> 01:02:22,639
He did mithrudates was the guy who came up with that.

1221
01:02:22,840 --> 01:02:26,400
Speaker 6: Cool, idea yeah so he's got a lot going.

1222
01:02:26,440 --> 01:02:29,880
Speaker 5: For him and there's a great story In the Life,

1223
01:02:29,880 --> 01:02:33,840
OF lucullus I Think blutark's Life, of Lucullus where mithrudates

1224
01:02:34,119 --> 01:02:37,920
is Like his he's got like a concubine and a

1225
01:02:38,000 --> 01:02:42,320
sister and they get captured and they they were Instructed

1226
01:02:42,440 --> 01:02:47,239
by mithrudates to commit suicide if If the romans, caught

1227
01:02:47,280 --> 01:02:50,079
them and so they they kind of they kind of

1228
01:02:50,119 --> 01:02:54,119
one of them commit suicide and the Other like mithruddes's

1229
01:02:54,199 --> 01:02:58,920
eunuchs like murder her in this Very tragic so he's

1230
01:02:58,960 --> 01:03:01,519
he's probably A, super okay sounds kind.

1231
01:03:01,519 --> 01:03:03,480
Speaker 4: OF dope i don't know six three you didn't, say

1232
01:03:03,480 --> 01:03:03,960
it but probably.

1233
01:03:04,039 --> 01:03:08,639
Speaker 3: Jacked, CERTAINLY yeah i will say just From Playing Rome,

1234
01:03:08,719 --> 01:03:11,239
total war the, FIRST one I hate pontus so. Goddamn

1235
01:03:11,320 --> 01:03:14,840
much that is the one faction that really just Annoys

1236
01:03:14,880 --> 01:03:15,639
the christ out of.

1237
01:03:15,719 --> 01:03:19,440
Speaker 5: You, constantly yeah that's probably. On, purpose yeah they were

1238
01:03:19,480 --> 01:03:22,000
thorn in. The side oh, my god it's. Never ending

1239
01:03:22,079 --> 01:03:22,840
you just want them.

1240
01:03:22,840 --> 01:03:23,679
Speaker 6: To die.

1241
01:03:25,000 --> 01:03:26,079
Speaker 5: Scythed, chariots.

1242
01:03:26,119 --> 01:03:28,719
Speaker 6: Too, YEP yeah i can't forget the size of any.

1243
01:03:28,760 --> 01:03:30,480
Speaker 1: Financial chariots just Fucking.

1244
01:03:30,559 --> 01:03:33,679
Speaker 3: Dimer uh so you're kind of having, A moment i,

1245
01:03:33,719 --> 01:03:36,519
feel Like because roman history and Ain't The roman empire

1246
01:03:36,599 --> 01:03:39,519
is kind of like in. The, zeitgeist yeah like it's

1247
01:03:39,840 --> 01:03:42,079
almost a meme at, this point like men Love The

1248
01:03:42,159 --> 01:03:46,880
roman Empire and america Is The, roman empire or Like

1249
01:03:46,920 --> 01:03:50,599
the romans basically. Your, alpha yeah, well yeah your alpha

1250
01:03:50,679 --> 01:03:52,800
if you Like the romans and stuff, like that what

1251
01:03:52,840 --> 01:03:56,639
Do you what's something you see a lot of people

1252
01:03:56,719 --> 01:04:02,159
get wrong in their Admiration, For rome like it's, a

1253
01:04:02,199 --> 01:04:07,400
misconception or they don't just understand what they're, maybe ADMIRING or.

1254
01:04:08,719 --> 01:04:11,480
Speaker 6: I can't think. Of Anything the romans. Are, Awesome no

1255
01:04:11,679 --> 01:04:12,199
i'm not even.

1256
01:04:12,239 --> 01:04:13,199
Speaker 1: SAYING that i Think ancient.

1257
01:04:13,280 --> 01:04:15,760
Speaker 3: Romans sweet but if there's anything that they, just, like

1258
01:04:15,800 --> 01:04:17,679
well like one thing for me that's always funny is like.

1259
01:04:17,639 --> 01:04:19,840
Speaker 2: There's a lot Of bad roman history that they repeat

1260
01:04:20,519 --> 01:04:23,159
or like, you know you're like you're.

1261
01:04:23,559 --> 01:04:25,559
Speaker 4: I mean just. Wrong information it's or like.

1262
01:04:25,519 --> 01:04:27,599
Speaker 3: It's a lot of dudes that are like, hell Yeah

1263
01:04:27,679 --> 01:04:31,320
like i'm like a big beefy straight man and just

1264
01:04:31,360 --> 01:04:35,199
Like ancient romans and, it's, like yeah you know they Were, absolutely.

1265
01:04:34,880 --> 01:04:37,639
Speaker 4: Yeah if you want To, be roman you Gotta do, roman. Stuff,

1266
01:04:37,679 --> 01:04:38,159
guys yeah.

1267
01:04:38,199 --> 01:04:39,760
Speaker 1: Dudes constantly.

1268
01:04:41,000 --> 01:04:43,039
Speaker 6: It was frowned on a little bit More in rome

1269
01:04:43,079 --> 01:04:43,440
than it Was.

1270
01:04:43,480 --> 01:04:43,559
Speaker 2: In.

1271
01:04:43,599 --> 01:04:49,880
Speaker 5: Greece, yeah, UH well i think that too many men

1272
01:04:50,159 --> 01:04:52,119
are obsessed With The roman empire and not enough ore

1273
01:04:52,119 --> 01:04:52,559
obsessed With The.

1274
01:04:52,639 --> 01:04:55,079
Speaker 1: Roman republic, that SEE that's i agree.

1275
01:04:55,119 --> 01:04:59,159
Speaker 3: With, that yeah because the republic a was kind of

1276
01:04:59,320 --> 01:05:02,800
NEW for, i mean anything else Like the republic exists

1277
01:05:02,840 --> 01:05:03,920
in its time period one of.

1278
01:05:03,960 --> 01:05:07,039
Speaker 5: A kind, i Mean the greeks are like this is

1279
01:05:06,920 --> 01:05:07,199
this is the.

1280
01:05:07,199 --> 01:05:07,480
Speaker 6: Best.

1281
01:05:07,480 --> 01:05:10,440
Speaker 5: Constitution ever, you know we've been trying to figure this

1282
01:05:10,480 --> 01:05:13,199
out for hundreds. Of years we, have democracies we, have

1283
01:05:13,239 --> 01:05:16,239
oligarchies we have tyrants, and kings.

1284
01:05:16,079 --> 01:05:17,719
Speaker 6: But the romans figured out how to mix them.

1285
01:05:17,719 --> 01:05:22,400
Speaker 5: All, together yeah, and THAT like i think their political

1286
01:05:22,400 --> 01:05:25,400
system was the secrets of their, success, It.

1287
01:05:27,039 --> 01:05:29,280
Speaker 3: Right like that is THE thing i always read about

1288
01:05:29,280 --> 01:05:31,880
with Like The, punic, wars right is that it's all

1289
01:05:31,880 --> 01:05:32,400
should get to this.

1290
01:05:32,480 --> 01:05:33,480
Speaker 1: Question TOO so i saw a.

1291
01:05:33,519 --> 01:05:35,639
Speaker 3: FUNNY thing i think it was almost like sort of

1292
01:05:35,679 --> 01:05:39,239
like a it's not, a PERVASIVE but i did read

1293
01:05:39,280 --> 01:05:43,880
it somewhere where some someone, was like the, wrong country

1294
01:05:43,920 --> 01:05:44,960
for lack of a, better term.

1295
01:05:44,840 --> 01:05:45,880
Speaker 4: Are you about to hit us With bad?

1296
01:05:45,960 --> 01:05:46,239
Speaker 5: Roman?

1297
01:05:46,280 --> 01:05:49,119
Speaker 3: History yeah, well yeah but from someone, else me they're

1298
01:05:49,199 --> 01:05:53,559
the wrong country Won The punic wars because they were

1299
01:05:53,599 --> 01:05:55,760
like they were like If the, carthaginians won it would

1300
01:05:55,800 --> 01:06:00,639
have been this like almost like egalitarian like multicultural trading

1301
01:06:01,679 --> 01:06:06,119
situation in in, you Know the mediterranean.

1302
01:06:05,519 --> 01:06:12,320
Speaker 5: Women might have got, the suffrage, you know in two hundred, adah, right, no, yeah.

1303
01:06:12,239 --> 01:06:14,440
Speaker 3: Yeah but it is TO me i like, READING that i,

1304
01:06:14,480 --> 01:06:18,440
was like, you KNOW maybe i can SEE that pov

1305
01:06:18,519 --> 01:06:20,079
a little bit if you really, like trade But the

1306
01:06:20,159 --> 01:06:22,119
romans traded a. Ton too but also it's just like

1307
01:06:22,760 --> 01:06:27,360
there was no fucking way to win a long term War. With,

1308
01:06:27,480 --> 01:06:30,920
rome yeah With, the, Republic right and they do.

1309
01:06:30,960 --> 01:06:36,920
Speaker 5: It by by like convincing people to want to Fight

1310
01:06:36,960 --> 01:06:39,760
for rome who aren't, even citizens, you know, their allies

1311
01:06:40,719 --> 01:06:41,360
and they get.

1312
01:06:41,480 --> 01:06:43,800
Speaker 1: Did they have a lot of like, Half, citizens.

1313
01:06:43,280 --> 01:06:48,159
Speaker 5: Yeah, they have Like The latin ride and then the Colony,

1314
01:06:48,199 --> 01:06:51,400
the yeah there's various kind of gradations.

1315
01:06:50,800 --> 01:06:53,559
Speaker 2: Of just reference In The, punic wars they would just

1316
01:06:53,599 --> 01:06:57,159
lose a one hundred thousand people from shipwreck and it's like,

1317
01:06:57,159 --> 01:06:59,519
all right build, more, boats, yeah reload let's go. More.

1318
01:06:59,519 --> 01:07:01,760
Speaker 6: Back, yet yeah that's why.

1319
01:07:01,800 --> 01:07:05,719
Speaker 5: They're unstoppable they're like they're able to kind of capture

1320
01:07:05,719 --> 01:07:09,480
the hearts and souls of like a, whole peninsula like All,

1321
01:07:09,480 --> 01:07:12,119
of italy even though they are some of these people are,

1322
01:07:12,679 --> 01:07:16,480
you know never have any hope Of becoming, roman, citizens, right, right.

1323
01:07:16,559 --> 01:07:19,360
RIGHT right i think that's, pretty amazing.

1324
01:07:19,119 --> 01:07:21,039
Speaker 3: Is it still where a lot of them, like well

1325
01:07:21,960 --> 01:07:26,320
aside from us, ruling ourselves they're essentially better than any

1326
01:07:26,360 --> 01:07:30,119
other alternative because it seems like once they took control of,

1327
01:07:30,159 --> 01:07:33,920
an area life was pretty okay for the, most part

1328
01:07:34,480 --> 01:07:38,800
compared to maybe being under some sort of king or

1329
01:07:38,840 --> 01:07:42,280
something like that from, another empire especially from an empire

1330
01:07:43,079 --> 01:07:45,679
certainly For the latin or For the, italian peninsula like

1331
01:07:45,679 --> 01:07:50,719
a much more, foreign group, Right, RIGHT yeah i think.

1332
01:07:50,719 --> 01:07:54,360
Speaker 5: That's Fair the. Roman governors one of the Things that

1333
01:07:54,400 --> 01:07:56,719
caesar's trying to, clean up saw is trying to. CLEAN up,

1334
01:07:56,760 --> 01:07:58,920
i mean everybody's claiming they're trying to clean. It up

1335
01:07:59,000 --> 01:08:04,119
Is like governor, goes in Say to sicily and a

1336
01:08:04,199 --> 01:08:07,599
Bunch of Greeks, in sicily and, you know, he's, like,

1337
01:08:07,679 --> 01:08:10,920
well uh you want to you got to dispute with

1338
01:08:11,000 --> 01:08:15,199
your neighbor over. A, border well if you would you

1339
01:08:15,960 --> 01:08:18,199
hand me a painting, OR two I might i might

1340
01:08:18,319 --> 01:08:21,119
kind of rethink. My. Position yeah so there's all kinds

1341
01:08:21,159 --> 01:08:24,119
of corruption, and plunder and some of us just like outright,

1342
01:08:24,720 --> 01:08:28,840
you know, you know sending your troops to go and

1343
01:08:29,199 --> 01:08:32,520
seize a bunch of Statues. Or yeah so there is a.

1344
01:08:32,479 --> 01:08:32,960
Speaker 6: Lot of that.

1345
01:08:33,199 --> 01:08:36,399
Speaker 5: Going On the publican And the pharisee And, the gospels

1346
01:08:36,399 --> 01:08:40,000
Like the publican is the. Bad guy he's the. Tax

1347
01:08:40,000 --> 01:08:43,319
collector tax collectors are always extorting people for more than

1348
01:08:43,319 --> 01:08:47,600
they should at the. Same time, you know it's like

1349
01:08:47,640 --> 01:08:50,680
that passage In The Monty python's Life, Of brian what

1350
01:08:50,680 --> 01:08:52,520
Do the romans ever do? For us while, the roads,

1351
01:08:52,600 --> 01:08:55,159
the aqueducts, you know there's, a lot there's a lot

1352
01:08:55,199 --> 01:08:58,439
to kind of tempt the, Upper, classes yeah to to

1353
01:08:59,000 --> 01:09:00,680
get on board so that.

1354
01:09:00,680 --> 01:09:07,079
Speaker 3: They won't finance the ant, The, rebellion, yeah exactly which

1355
01:09:07,119 --> 01:09:09,520
is why was the Where The jewish zealots were that

1356
01:09:09,600 --> 01:09:10,239
mostly a lower.

1357
01:09:10,239 --> 01:09:12,319
Speaker 1: CLASS movement i actually have no idea.

1358
01:09:12,520 --> 01:09:16,119
Speaker 5: That's the that's the the story that that The the

1359
01:09:16,199 --> 01:09:18,319
celts is kind of like grassroots.

1360
01:09:17,680 --> 01:09:21,359
Speaker 3: Seventy eighty when the temple was. Finally, destroyed yeah but.

1361
01:09:21,520 --> 01:09:24,920
Speaker 5: It even starts In so Harod the great is another really,

1362
01:09:25,000 --> 01:09:30,399
fascinating figure who who's this kind of Half jew jew

1363
01:09:30,880 --> 01:09:34,399
That the romans eventually make the king and HE had,

1364
01:09:34,840 --> 01:09:38,159
i mean he's Like a jewish Ruler of judea and

1365
01:09:38,239 --> 01:09:42,039
he's got to really put down some, Some, zealots yeah

1366
01:09:42,159 --> 01:09:46,399
because you know they Have like Temple to augustus in

1367
01:09:46,479 --> 01:09:50,600
a City in caesareah and what is? This idolatry and,

1368
01:09:51,119 --> 01:09:53,079
it's like don't you realize the game that we're? Playing

1369
01:09:53,119 --> 01:09:55,920
here yeahs a. Great power i'm trying to keep. Things

1370
01:09:56,000 --> 01:09:57,720
peopful but.

1371
01:09:57,960 --> 01:09:59,199
Speaker 1: He wasn't was he the ONE that.

1372
01:10:00,560 --> 01:10:03,239
Speaker 3: I was he On mark antony's side in the axiom

1373
01:10:03,359 --> 01:10:06,239
and then Went to augustus and, Was like i'll be.

1374
01:10:06,279 --> 01:10:10,119
Speaker 5: Your friend so Conveniently, for harod he he had some

1375
01:10:10,159 --> 01:10:14,439
other commitment detaining him for the actual battle. Of acting yeah.

1376
01:10:14,680 --> 01:10:15,560
Speaker 4: That's, convenient yeah.

1377
01:10:15,560 --> 01:10:19,079
Speaker 5: That's nice so but he ends up kind of switching

1378
01:10:19,159 --> 01:10:22,239
sides at the right time and getting getting Back on

1379
01:10:22,279 --> 01:10:25,039
augustus is, good side. Really crafty we will choose.

1380
01:10:25,039 --> 01:10:28,079
Speaker 2: The, winningside, Yes, WHOEVER yeah i can't be the day,

1381
01:10:28,119 --> 01:10:31,439
good luck, have fun help.

1382
01:10:31,520 --> 01:10:31,560
Speaker 1: You.

1383
01:10:31,600 --> 01:10:36,800
Speaker 5: Win yeah so there's all kinds of reasons to Be on,

1384
01:10:36,880 --> 01:10:43,119
rome's side especially the. Victor's side, but, YEAH no i

1385
01:10:43,159 --> 01:10:49,119
mean he's like, a huge, you know oppressor of Particularly.

1386
01:10:49,159 --> 01:10:51,439
Speaker 6: Of, ZEALOTS yeah i mean in his.

1387
01:10:51,479 --> 01:10:53,000
Speaker 5: Own region you gotta do what you, GOTTA do.

1388
01:10:53,079 --> 01:10:54,560
Speaker 3: I guess But the rose is kind, of funny like

1389
01:10:54,600 --> 01:10:58,760
they are Almost like napoleon or even Maybe the Germans

1390
01:10:58,760 --> 01:11:01,319
In World war, one especially they just had so they

1391
01:11:01,319 --> 01:11:03,840
could just throw bodies, at you like they could just

1392
01:11:03,920 --> 01:11:08,760
conscript people faster than you could possibly comprehend and whereas

1393
01:11:08,760 --> 01:11:10,760
everyone Were the greeks at that point when they Were,

1394
01:11:10,760 --> 01:11:13,079
taking greece were they still kind of on that sort

1395
01:11:13,079 --> 01:11:16,279
of like farmer hop light system where it wasn't that

1396
01:11:16,439 --> 01:11:19,359
it wasn't Like a marian reform where it was yeah more.

1397
01:11:19,439 --> 01:11:22,760
Speaker 5: Or LESS and, i mean well they're Fighting the macedonian,

1398
01:11:22,840 --> 01:11:27,279
kings too who, have mercenaries but mercenaries are never going to,

1399
01:11:27,319 --> 01:11:32,720
fight like, you know. Not, that yeah so it's it's

1400
01:11:32,920 --> 01:11:34,479
it's not a big contest when they Get.

1401
01:11:34,520 --> 01:11:36,800
Speaker 1: To, greece yeah they're kind of cooked at.

1402
01:11:36,800 --> 01:11:40,680
Speaker 5: That. Point, yeah yeah it's another interesting story. For sure

1403
01:11:41,399 --> 01:11:43,079
a lot of a Lot of, roman plundering, you Know,

1404
01:11:43,199 --> 01:11:48,000
sacking corinth and it wasn't it wasn't a, you know a.

1405
01:11:48,039 --> 01:11:49,720
Speaker 6: Hay ride, let's, say.

1406
01:11:49,600 --> 01:11:54,399
Speaker 3: Yeah what do you think some, so again people Love

1407
01:11:54,439 --> 01:11:57,640
The roman empire and they kind of get the rightfully

1408
01:11:57,680 --> 01:11:59,600
so like the big notes because, it's.

1409
01:11:59,479 --> 01:12:00,800
Speaker 1: There, you know you're casual.

1410
01:12:00,840 --> 01:12:04,399
Speaker 3: About it but what do you think of, some underrated

1411
01:12:05,279 --> 01:12:09,439
lasting Legacies of rome that that don't get talked.

1412
01:12:09,439 --> 01:12:10,239
Speaker 1: About, enough.

1413
01:12:11,920 --> 01:12:17,279
Speaker 5: Well, you Know The senate house has the the FoST

1414
01:12:17,319 --> 01:12:22,000
case as one of our signs IN The, us senates

1415
01:12:22,359 --> 01:12:23,640
which is like where we get the.

1416
01:12:23,640 --> 01:12:24,920
Speaker 6: WORD fascism.

1417
01:12:26,119 --> 01:12:30,239
Speaker 5: I think people don't appreciate that we're arguably a. Fascist country,

1418
01:12:30,279 --> 01:12:33,159
you know like the The lit, lincoln, monuments this these

1419
01:12:33,199 --> 01:12:36,359
are the Symbols of. Roman power it's like bundle. Of

1420
01:12:36,399 --> 01:12:38,520
STICKS and i think that the way that it worked

1421
01:12:38,680 --> 01:12:42,319
was the so that like if you're, a console you

1422
01:12:42,359 --> 01:12:44,600
go through the city and you got these licktors who

1423
01:12:44,640 --> 01:12:48,319
hold these bundles, of sticks the Foster cas it's like

1424
01:12:48,359 --> 01:12:48,640
they're like.

1425
01:12:48,720 --> 01:12:51,000
Speaker 3: Wood rods that's one of the things In the eagles, Claw,

1426
01:12:51,119 --> 01:12:54,079
right yes sticks, and, arrows.

1427
01:12:53,840 --> 01:12:58,000
Speaker 5: Yes yes and so the idea, is like if you

1428
01:12:58,039 --> 01:13:00,359
know you got to clear out of craw you can

1429
01:13:00,439 --> 01:13:02,680
kind of shove them with, these sticks and if things,

1430
01:13:02,720 --> 01:13:05,520
get ugly you unwrap the sticks and suddenly you've got

1431
01:13:05,520 --> 01:13:06,760
a bunch of clubs that you.

1432
01:13:06,760 --> 01:13:07,760
Speaker 6: Can use, so they, you know they.

1433
01:13:07,840 --> 01:13:11,439
Speaker 5: Symbolize power but we've it used to be that those

1434
01:13:11,479 --> 01:13:14,399
were like a symbol of law and order for many

1435
01:13:14,600 --> 01:13:15,359
many Kind of.

1436
01:13:15,359 --> 01:13:16,199
Speaker 6: Europeanoid.

1437
01:13:16,239 --> 01:13:19,000
Speaker 5: People, yeah yeah, nineteenth century and then it went in

1438
01:13:19,039 --> 01:13:23,079
Another direction italy in. The THIRTIES but i think that

1439
01:13:23,199 --> 01:13:27,039
THERE are, i mean the law and order Tradition of

1440
01:13:27,119 --> 01:13:29,640
rome is, really important but you know a lot of

1441
01:13:29,640 --> 01:13:39,359
ways they they Like preserved greek science and passed on the,

1442
01:13:39,439 --> 01:13:42,800
you know the Philosophy. Of greece cicero is a big figure.

1443
01:13:42,840 --> 01:13:46,319
In this he translated all the at least the arguments

1444
01:13:46,319 --> 01:13:48,279
in the Terms the greek philosophers.

1445
01:13:47,720 --> 01:13:50,079
Speaker 3: And the kind they're kind of the baton bearer Between

1446
01:13:50,159 --> 01:13:52,840
the greeks AND like i guess the monks that wrote

1447
01:13:52,880 --> 01:13:53,079
it all.

1448
01:13:53,119 --> 01:13:54,520
Speaker 1: Down, afterwards yeah stuff.

1449
01:13:54,560 --> 01:13:58,760
Speaker 5: Like, that, Yeah TOTALLY and i mean it's certainly the

1450
01:13:58,760 --> 01:14:02,159
Case that christianity would have had a very different story

1451
01:14:02,439 --> 01:14:04,720
if if there wasn't Like a, roman piece.

1452
01:14:04,560 --> 01:14:07,960
Speaker 3: Probably, THE roads I, mean christianity and then Probably nor

1453
01:14:08,079 --> 01:14:09,359
islam exists Without The.

1454
01:14:09,439 --> 01:14:12,239
Speaker 1: Roman, empire yeah Certainly not, Islam, either, yeah Yeah because

1455
01:14:12,319 --> 01:14:13,680
christianity remains some weird.

1456
01:14:13,720 --> 01:14:16,760
Speaker 5: Little cult and if it all just ends up being

1457
01:14:16,760 --> 01:14:18,720
the dead dead scroll TYPE of i forget what those

1458
01:14:18,720 --> 01:14:21,159
people will. Called scenes, yeah, yeah yeah it just ends

1459
01:14:21,199 --> 01:14:22,880
up being like a couple of weirdos in. The desert

1460
01:14:22,960 --> 01:14:25,760
then it, goes nowhere right and then obviously if that,

1461
01:14:25,800 --> 01:14:28,920
Goes nowhere islam doesn't, even start and history.

1462
01:14:28,640 --> 01:14:32,239
Speaker 4: Is something else. Pops up maybe could.

1463
01:14:32,119 --> 01:14:34,359
Speaker 5: Have been the Cult of mythris we could all, be uh,

1464
01:14:34,439 --> 01:14:36,399
you know for instead, of baptism we, could all, you

1465
01:14:36,399 --> 01:14:39,359
know do the thing where you go under a bowl

1466
01:14:39,520 --> 01:14:43,000
that's on, A, grate yeah and just they slaughter the

1467
01:14:43,000 --> 01:14:44,520
bowl over your blood pours.

1468
01:14:44,600 --> 01:14:46,239
Speaker 1: Down. Blood, yeah yeah that's.

1469
01:14:46,239 --> 01:14:47,640
Speaker 4: MORE metal i would actually.

1470
01:14:47,680 --> 01:14:49,119
Speaker 1: Prefer that but we can make.

1471
01:14:49,159 --> 01:14:50,680
Speaker 5: That happen we could bring. It, back yeah We're.

1472
01:14:50,680 --> 01:14:52,000
Speaker 1: In texas we can get a. Cow.

1473
01:14:53,000 --> 01:14:56,399
Speaker 6: Easily yeah you gotta got to slaughter. It, Anyway, right

1474
01:14:56,520 --> 01:14:57,000
yeah we're.

1475
01:14:56,840 --> 01:14:57,439
Speaker 1: Gonna eat it no.

1476
01:14:57,479 --> 01:14:59,279
Speaker 3: Matter what let me just. LAY under i don't know

1477
01:14:59,319 --> 01:15:01,800
how to dress A wow field dress a. Fucking steer

1478
01:15:01,840 --> 01:15:03,960
but somebody. Else's, problem yeah that's not. My problem we

1479
01:15:04,039 --> 01:15:07,239
just leave it for them. To handle startup.

1480
01:15:07,279 --> 01:15:08,279
Speaker 6: Opportunity there.

1481
01:15:10,840 --> 01:15:15,119
Speaker 3: AND then i again like we love doing like the

1482
01:15:15,159 --> 01:15:18,800
really really like minute Stuff. On ROME like, i said

1483
01:15:18,800 --> 01:15:22,159
the Graffiti, and pompeii they're weird sort of views, on

1484
01:15:22,279 --> 01:15:24,680
sexuality not, weird even but just like their views.

1485
01:15:24,720 --> 01:15:26,800
Speaker 6: On sexuality have you talked About the bona?

1486
01:15:26,880 --> 01:15:29,119
Speaker 3: Dea, Scandal NO so i was gonna, ask you what

1487
01:15:29,159 --> 01:15:31,399
are some funny little like shit.

1488
01:15:31,560 --> 01:15:33,800
Speaker 5: Like that this is one of my. Favorite Stories So

1489
01:15:34,840 --> 01:15:37,479
julius caesar is the pont the head Priests. Of, rome

1490
01:15:37,600 --> 01:15:41,359
yeah and he's got as part of, his duties they

1491
01:15:41,399 --> 01:15:43,359
have to host a big party at his house for all,

1492
01:15:43,359 --> 01:15:48,159
the ladies all, the top top, top Ladies the mishaviship

1493
01:15:48,159 --> 01:15:50,279
well maybe, not heard but, you know The grand Dames

1494
01:15:50,279 --> 01:15:56,079
of rome get together For The Good. Goddess festival dea,

1495
01:15:56,159 --> 01:16:03,199
Means goddess bona, means good so. Bonadet is it's a woman.

1496
01:16:03,279 --> 01:16:06,840
Only festival and it happens the house of The. Pont

1497
01:16:06,880 --> 01:16:12,359
effects so. It, Happened julius caesar's current wife. Was there

1498
01:16:12,880 --> 01:16:16,760
his mom. Was there she's kind OF. The mc and there's,

1499
01:16:16,800 --> 01:16:26,279
this young, you know dashing Aristocrat named clodius who wants To.

1500
01:16:26,880 --> 01:16:30,159
Cuckold caesar basically perfectly wants to Get with, caesar's wife

1501
01:16:30,600 --> 01:16:34,000
and so he dresses up as a flute girl and

1502
01:16:34,039 --> 01:16:37,920
he sneaks into. The party, you know fifty one hundred

1503
01:16:37,960 --> 01:16:42,399
women in, this mansion, no Men and clodius is like

1504
01:16:42,520 --> 01:16:46,159
looking around with his, wig on trying to look, you,

1505
01:16:46,199 --> 01:16:48,600
know soft and he's kind of trying to find where

1506
01:16:48,600 --> 01:16:53,079
he can Get, With pompeia. Caesar's wife and before they

1507
01:16:53,079 --> 01:16:55,600
are able to arrange, their soire.

1508
01:16:57,119 --> 01:16:59,960
Speaker 6: One of the other servant girls.

1509
01:16:59,720 --> 01:17:02,640
Speaker 5: Come up and, she's, like hey go get me a

1510
01:17:02,720 --> 01:17:07,920
Jug and clodius is like tries not, to talk but

1511
01:17:07,960 --> 01:17:11,000
eventually he has to. Say something IT'S like i don't

1512
01:17:11,000 --> 01:17:16,560
know where, they are and she's like what that's, A

1513
01:17:16,560 --> 01:17:20,399
man like you can't pull off, The falsetto and so

1514
01:17:20,800 --> 01:17:26,199
she screams and runs and TELLS the Mc, and clodius,

1515
01:17:26,239 --> 01:17:28,840
you know meanwhile hides under a bed, or something and

1516
01:17:28,880 --> 01:17:31,840
so they, scoured them like the. Party stops it's, of

1517
01:17:31,880 --> 01:17:36,479
course it's it's a it's an Incredibly sacred. August thing

1518
01:17:37,039 --> 01:17:39,479
the mystery like no man should be allowed to. See

1519
01:17:39,520 --> 01:17:43,359
it and the penalty for a man defiling the mysteries.

1520
01:17:43,920 --> 01:17:45,800
IT'S death i think you get buried alive.

1521
01:17:45,920 --> 01:17:48,039
Speaker 4: Or, something yeah it was like the same thing with THE.

1522
01:17:48,119 --> 01:17:50,119
Speaker 5: Vessel, veri yeah it's like it's Like A vessel virgin

1523
01:17:50,359 --> 01:17:53,520
caliber religious offense because this is Like the Hearth. OF

1524
01:17:53,600 --> 01:17:56,079
rome i, mean yeah you're like threatening the stability of

1525
01:17:56,079 --> 01:18:01,279
the whole. Freaking empire so They find clodius and, you

1526
01:18:01,319 --> 01:18:05,760
know they have, him there, you know and and basically

1527
01:18:05,960 --> 01:18:09,279
call off the Whole book. Bonadeta scandal and somehow he

1528
01:18:09,319 --> 01:18:13,439
gets away and and In and caesar's, not there, of

1529
01:18:13,479 --> 01:18:18,840
Course but, caesar's like, funny enough is kind of political Ally.

1530
01:18:18,840 --> 01:18:22,439
Of clodius so, you know the whole kind of you screw,

1531
01:18:22,520 --> 01:18:27,199
my WiFi screw yours is happening, somehow decadent, you know,

1532
01:18:27,439 --> 01:18:30,800
civil war that sort of thing tends, to happen And

1533
01:18:30,960 --> 01:18:32,279
Like french revolution kind.

1534
01:18:32,279 --> 01:18:35,479
Speaker 6: Of times but so there's.

1535
01:18:35,479 --> 01:18:40,520
Speaker 5: A trial clodius goes on trial and, he, SAYS oh

1536
01:18:40,680 --> 01:18:42,239
I was i was in another city at.

1537
01:18:42,279 --> 01:18:43,159
Speaker 6: The time that couldn't have been.

1538
01:18:43,199 --> 01:18:47,880
Speaker 5: Me, a yeah he has, an alibi and the albis

1539
01:18:47,880 --> 01:18:50,119
you could have back then. Are, incredible, YEAH yeah i,

1540
01:18:50,199 --> 01:18:55,479
wasn't there. Wasn't there and And so caesar's mom is

1541
01:18:55,560 --> 01:18:59,840
a witness at, the trial and, she's like that is.

1542
01:18:59,880 --> 01:19:02,479
The guy there's no. Mistaking it she's like one of

1543
01:19:02,479 --> 01:19:05,920
the most respected People. In Rome but codius, brings up,

1544
01:19:06,119 --> 01:19:09,279
you know witnesses to say that he was he Was

1545
01:19:09,319 --> 01:19:13,319
at beauvila or wherever, he was and seventy, miles away

1546
01:19:13,880 --> 01:19:21,159
and so nobody's, buying it and the trial basically the

1547
01:19:21,239 --> 01:19:24,560
kid is going to. Get executed And then crassus. Comes

1548
01:19:24,560 --> 01:19:28,439
in crasus is a Buddy of, caesar's too and They

1549
01:19:28,439 --> 01:19:30,880
asked caesar to by, The, way caesar would you be,

1550
01:19:30,920 --> 01:19:35,680
A Witness and, caesar says, you, KNOW don't i didn't.

1551
01:19:35,680 --> 01:19:38,119
SEE anything i don't know. What happened he divorces his

1552
01:19:38,159 --> 01:19:43,720
wife because, you know it looked bad because, everybody, Knew

1553
01:19:43,920 --> 01:19:46,479
right but they, asked him why did you divorce your,

1554
01:19:46,520 --> 01:19:49,520
wife then and That's when, caesar, Says well caesar's wife

1555
01:19:49,600 --> 01:19:52,600
must be. Above suspicion so, He's like i'm not saying

1556
01:19:52,640 --> 01:19:54,600
that that they did IT because i don't want to

1557
01:19:54,640 --> 01:19:57,279
like throw my guy into. The bus but, YOU know

1558
01:19:58,279 --> 01:20:01,399
i got to divorce. My wife, so Anyway so crassis

1559
01:20:01,439 --> 01:20:04,720
comes in and just bribes the pants off of, the jurors,

1560
01:20:05,239 --> 01:20:08,399
and so, you know to, everybody's shock, You know clodius

1561
01:20:08,439 --> 01:20:12,920
goes free and lives to terrorize Many of. Roman citizens

1562
01:20:13,800 --> 01:20:16,960
clodius ends up becoming One of rome's most. Legendary, mobsters,

1563
01:20:18,159 --> 01:20:22,560
yeah yeah he becomes this. Like slumlord he kind of

1564
01:20:22,640 --> 01:20:25,640
rules the Streets of rome for the better part of,

1565
01:20:25,640 --> 01:20:30,199
a decade, you know, murdering people. Swaying elections eventually gets

1566
01:20:30,279 --> 01:20:34,560
murdered by, another mobster this Guy. Named milo they like

1567
01:20:34,680 --> 01:20:39,600
meet Outside of rome on the on the highway and

1568
01:20:39,680 --> 01:20:43,199
like maybe they didn't know that they were both going

1569
01:20:43,239 --> 01:20:44,359
to be on the road, that day but they both

1570
01:20:44,359 --> 01:20:48,000
have like entourages of, you know dozens of. Tough dudes

1571
01:20:48,640 --> 01:20:51,680
and so, this massive bloody knife fight breaks Out and

1572
01:20:52,119 --> 01:20:57,199
Milo sees clodius like get injured and start to try

1573
01:20:57,199 --> 01:21:00,319
to run off toward like a hostel. Or, Something right mila,

1574
01:21:00,399 --> 01:21:03,359
is like better finish. Him, off yeah so they just

1575
01:21:03,359 --> 01:21:04,439
like grab him and bring Him.

1576
01:21:04,439 --> 01:21:05,199
Speaker 6: Before MILO.

1577
01:21:06,880 --> 01:21:08,479
Speaker 2: But, i mean you get caught in a dress or

1578
01:21:08,600 --> 01:21:12,000
dressed like, a woman you probably got to overcompensate. A, bit.

1579
01:21:12,399 --> 01:21:14,359
Speaker 6: YEAH yeah i think that explains.

1580
01:21:14,399 --> 01:21:19,520
Speaker 3: A lot and then my last, question Is Was julius

1581
01:21:19,560 --> 01:21:21,840
caesar really.

1582
01:21:23,079 --> 01:21:25,680
Speaker 1: Every man's woman and every? Woman's man?

1583
01:21:27,239 --> 01:21:32,079
Speaker 5: All right so he he might have had a little

1584
01:21:32,119 --> 01:21:36,039
bit of indiscretion in, his youth particularly with the King

1585
01:21:36,079 --> 01:21:40,880
of Nicomedia or Nicomedes, of, bithynia sorry the king Of, the,

1586
01:21:40,920 --> 01:21:46,359
east right, you know so if if, he did and

1587
01:21:46,399 --> 01:21:49,600
there's there were rumors going around that basically he was.

1588
01:21:50,479 --> 01:21:51,920
Speaker 6: He was he was the Queen.

1589
01:21:51,680 --> 01:21:55,840
Speaker 5: Of bathenia for a spell when he was like in. His,

1590
01:21:55,880 --> 01:21:58,800
twenties yeah but if, he did that was the, Only,

1591
01:21:58,840 --> 01:22:03,279
Time okay and AND he i think apparently any time

1592
01:22:03,359 --> 01:22:05,720
that people would bring, this up it was the one

1593
01:22:05,760 --> 01:22:07,840
thing you could say that Would make caesar fly off,

1594
01:22:07,840 --> 01:22:10,760
the handle like he did not want to Be the Queen.

1595
01:22:10,760 --> 01:22:13,800
Of athenia but people kind of pestered him. With it

1596
01:22:14,159 --> 01:22:18,760
and and that was the only instance of him potentiality

1597
01:22:18,840 --> 01:22:21,039
potentially fooling around.

1598
01:22:21,079 --> 01:22:21,640
Speaker 6: With men.

1599
01:22:23,159 --> 01:22:29,039
Speaker 5: Now was he, you know did he? Chase men no evidence,

1600
01:22:29,039 --> 01:22:32,359
of that but that wouldn't have been so bad to

1601
01:22:32,399 --> 01:22:34,159
be The reci.

1602
01:22:34,199 --> 01:22:36,600
Speaker 4: It was one time, in college, all, right right, you

1603
01:22:36,640 --> 01:22:37,479
know you know.

1604
01:22:39,199 --> 01:22:40,840
Speaker 5: He was In. The east it's done.

1605
01:22:40,880 --> 01:22:44,119
Speaker 3: Over there my favorite Line from Alexander's the east has

1606
01:22:44,119 --> 01:22:44,560
a way of.

1607
01:22:44,680 --> 01:22:45,760
Speaker 5: Swallowing, men.

1608
01:22:48,520 --> 01:22:49,680
Speaker 6: Yes he's almost.

1609
01:22:49,720 --> 01:22:53,920
Speaker 5: Got, swallowed yeah and maybe he was over compensating for

1610
01:22:53,960 --> 01:22:54,319
the rest of.

1611
01:22:54,319 --> 01:22:56,880
Speaker 4: His life swallowing then or is he? SWALLOWING them i,

1612
01:22:56,880 --> 01:22:58,720
mean yes you could play that any way you.

1613
01:22:58,760 --> 01:23:04,399
Speaker 3: Want to, really, well dude this was incredibly informative. And

1614
01:23:04,560 --> 01:23:10,960
fun your podcast Again is Cost. Of Glory alex, PETKIS

1615
01:23:11,560 --> 01:23:16,000
PhD PhD On? The classics What's? Your instagra where do

1616
01:23:16,039 --> 01:23:16,840
you want everyone to find?

1617
01:23:16,880 --> 01:23:19,119
Speaker 1: You online aside from, The podcast.

1618
01:23:18,840 --> 01:23:22,560
Speaker 5: I'm on twitter x MOSTLY at I think i'm at Cost.

1619
01:23:22,600 --> 01:23:26,239
Of glory Look for alex. Petkisk post i'm also, on YouTube, but.

1620
01:23:26,720 --> 01:23:28,479
Speaker 4: Yeah the everything, app though, the.

1621
01:23:28,439 --> 01:23:30,279
Speaker 6: Everything, yeah yeah send.

1622
01:23:30,279 --> 01:23:33,359
Speaker 3: Me money is there any final parting thoughts you want

1623
01:23:33,359 --> 01:23:35,399
to leave with the Audience on.

1624
01:23:35,319 --> 01:23:37,680
Speaker 1: Sola or rome? Or anything just what interests you?

1625
01:23:37,760 --> 01:23:40,960
Speaker 5: Most, about well if you guys ever want to just

1626
01:23:41,000 --> 01:23:44,199
like Riff on, roman, history yeah Check. Out plutarch he's

1627
01:23:44,279 --> 01:23:46,439
really good and. Really accessible you can just like read

1628
01:23:46,479 --> 01:23:49,800
through and, it's great. GREAT quotes a lot OF what

1629
01:23:49,840 --> 01:23:53,319
i kind of riff on myself is just straight Out.

1630
01:23:53,319 --> 01:23:58,000
Of Plutarch that's. Shakespeare's Guy, For caesar Anthony. And coriolan

1631
01:23:58,199 --> 01:24:03,199
What is. Plutarch's era he's like a Contemporary, Of Seneca,

1632
01:24:03,239 --> 01:24:06,439
marcus Aurelius. Like trajan it's like late first century a,

1633
01:24:06,560 --> 01:24:11,479
d okay surprisingly accessible for a two thousand year.

1634
01:24:11,520 --> 01:24:14,800
Speaker 1: Old author everyone that that one continued to get. Written, down,

1635
01:24:15,000 --> 01:24:16,319
yeah yeah through.

1636
01:24:16,319 --> 01:24:19,800
Speaker 5: The, years yeah he's a. Great storyteller that's what they had.

1637
01:24:19,800 --> 01:24:21,479
Speaker 6: To do that's what they had, To, do yeah. To

1638
01:24:21,520 --> 01:24:22,520
survive how.

1639
01:24:23,439 --> 01:24:24,640
Speaker 1: Accurate is he compared To?

1640
01:24:24,680 --> 01:24:28,159
Speaker 5: LIKE herodotus i think he's a little Better, than herodotus

1641
01:24:28,199 --> 01:24:30,399
but he will now and then, you know if he

1642
01:24:30,479 --> 01:24:33,800
finds a story, of Say a roman general discovering a

1643
01:24:33,920 --> 01:24:37,960
sixty foot tall Skeleton. In africa, just, say well he

1644
01:24:38,000 --> 01:24:40,720
found a sixty foot tall Skeleton. In africa what do

1645
01:24:40,800 --> 01:24:43,479
you want me? To say so he won't he won't

1646
01:24:43,479 --> 01:24:47,199
omit the interesting stuff just because. It's, implausible yeah if.

1647
01:24:47,079 --> 01:24:48,279
Speaker 3: He said he, saw it he, SAW it i don't

1648
01:24:48,319 --> 01:24:50,680
know What, the yeah you take it from there as

1649
01:24:50,680 --> 01:24:53,760
far as whether or not you. Believe, it, Awesome man

1650
01:24:53,760 --> 01:24:57,399
thank you so much for. Joining us alex Peckets Costa.

1651
01:24:57,399 --> 01:25:02,199
Glory podcast find Him on Twitter. Aus glory yeah THAT'S

1652
01:25:02,239 --> 01:25:04,399
all i got. For, today man this has. Been awesome

1653
01:25:04,439 --> 01:25:08,399
thank you so much for coming On for Danner And.

1654
01:25:08,560 --> 01:25:09,479
Alex Peckis I'm.

1655
01:25:09,560 --> 01:25:11,159
Speaker 4: Rob fox you just got sauce syrved