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<v Speaker 1>Big Food and Beyond.

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<v Speaker 2>With Cliff and Bobo. These guys are your favorites, so

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<v Speaker 2>like say subscribe and rade it.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm star and me.

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<v Speaker 2>Righteous on yesterday and listening, oh watching always keep its watching.

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<v Speaker 2>And now your hosts Cliff Berrickman and James Bobo Fay Bobo.

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<v Speaker 2>How are you doing today?

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<v Speaker 4>Excellent? Sir? How about you? Cliff?

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<v Speaker 2>I am doing very well. Thank you. Anything exciting going

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<v Speaker 2>on we should know about her? You just want to

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<v Speaker 2>jump right into it because I just kind of want

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<v Speaker 2>to jump right into it because of our guests today.

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<v Speaker 5>No, I know who we got on today, and I

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<v Speaker 5>got nothing to say until he says something, because he's

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<v Speaker 5>going to enlighten us in the audience.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, nothing that we have to say is going to

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<v Speaker 2>add to our conversation. So let's just jump right into it.

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<v Speaker 2>So I've had the pleasure of meeting this gentleman before

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<v Speaker 2>I actually met him at Beach Foot and the kind

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<v Speaker 2>of a West Coast event that Todd and Diane Nice

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<v Speaker 2>put on for a number of years. And I listened

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<v Speaker 2>to this guy speak and I was blown away because

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<v Speaker 2>not only is this guy like a legitimate academic with

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<v Speaker 2>an interest in Sasquatches and you know those that combination

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<v Speaker 2>right there is amazing. But he's a historical figure as

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<v Speaker 2>well for old timers. And then that when I say

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<v Speaker 2>old timers, you know, I feel old, but I know

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<v Speaker 2>I'm not an old timer. The old timers are the

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<v Speaker 2>four horsemen, you know, Burn and Grain and Krantz, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>hind in those guys. But for the next generation, I

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<v Speaker 2>call it generation, the second generation, you know, but really

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<v Speaker 2>it's the it's the nineteen eighties, in the nineteen nineties,

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<v Speaker 2>and that's kind of this this this area, it's like

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<v Speaker 2>the dark ages of Bigfoot, because not a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>information comes out. Not a lot of people seem to

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<v Speaker 2>be super active. He had stuff from Krantz, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>the dramatic glyphics, he had the Blue Mountain activity that

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<v Speaker 2>was going on there. But really, you know, the other

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<v Speaker 2>people are kind of low profile. That's the Joe B. Lart,

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<v Speaker 2>that's the Cliff Olson's, that's the Richard Greenwells from the

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<v Speaker 2>International Society of Cryptozoology. And that's why I was stoked

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<v Speaker 2>to hear our guests speak, because this gentleman that we

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<v Speaker 2>have on here today, Angelo Capparella, he was involved with

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<v Speaker 2>doctor Greenwell on his expeditions to northern California and southern

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<v Speaker 2>Oregon and all of that. A historical figure in cryptozoology

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<v Speaker 2>is with us today. So he's an ornithologist at Illinois

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<v Speaker 2>State University. And listeners, please welcome in Bobo as well.

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<v Speaker 2>Please welcome Angelo Caperella. Angelo, thank you so much for

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<v Speaker 2>joining us today.

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<v Speaker 3>Thank you very much for the invitation to be on

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<v Speaker 3>your podcast. Appreciate it.

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<v Speaker 2>We are thrilled whenever we can have a legitimate academic

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<v Speaker 2>on the program. And so why don't we start with

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<v Speaker 2>that very briefly, like why don't you tell us what

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<v Speaker 2>your job is? And we promise not to tell anybody

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<v Speaker 2>because we know how like you know, college professors are

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<v Speaker 2>treated if they're under big interested in Bigfoot. But luckily

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<v Speaker 2>no one listens to this. Your word will not reach out.

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<v Speaker 6>Okay, well, actually, by ja now is getting used to retirement.

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<v Speaker 6>After thirty one years as a zoologist at Illinois State University,

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<v Speaker 6>I finally decided to retire let a new, younger generation

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<v Speaker 6>come in. And this was after getting very involved in

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<v Speaker 6>conservation biology and fostering our collections of birds and mammals,

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<v Speaker 6>doing a whole host of things educating graduate students. I

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<v Speaker 6>still have an affiliation at the University of Illinois State,

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<v Speaker 6>but my retirement effectively, I would say, occur in June,

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<v Speaker 6>and so I'm just sort of adjusting things. Getting used

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<v Speaker 6>of the COVID kind of threw a ringer into some

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<v Speaker 6>of my plans at least for now, as it has

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<v Speaker 6>for so many but basically continuing doing projects in affiliation

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<v Speaker 6>with university, but now have a little more flexibility. And

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<v Speaker 6>thankfully all you educators out there can under appreciate this.

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<v Speaker 6>Thankfully don't have to teach under the COVID issue that

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<v Speaker 6>causes so much difficulty for both teachers and students.

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<v Speaker 2>I can't even imagine. And I was an elementary school

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<v Speaker 2>teacher for fourteen years and just to think that, like

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<v Speaker 2>what teachers are going through now just to educate their students,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, and just teaching is hard enough, but this,

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, teachers deserve medals, you know, they certainly deserve raises,

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<v Speaker 2>but they absolutely deserve medals for what they're going through now,

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<v Speaker 2>as do the students. I might end.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it was challenging.

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<v Speaker 6>My last semester teaching was last spring of twenty nineteen,

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<v Speaker 6>and we had to pivot right in the middle of

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<v Speaker 6>the semester to all remote teaching, which was quite a

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<v Speaker 6>struggle for everyone since it had to happen so quickly.

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<v Speaker 6>But I got through it, So I guess that's good

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<v Speaker 6>and now I can concentrate well on other things.

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<v Speaker 5>So with googling all that, Now are your students to

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<v Speaker 5>do like goo you? Are they aware of your big

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<v Speaker 5>foot interest? Were you like real quiet at school about it?

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<v Speaker 4>Or did you was it known just not a real

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<v Speaker 4>big deal? How'd that work?

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<v Speaker 6>More of the latter, I would say. In fact, they

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<v Speaker 6>even had a couple of students, an undergraduate and a

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<v Speaker 6>graduate student kind of helped me as we sort of

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<v Speaker 6>were using analyzing for vocalizations a lot of the SD

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<v Speaker 6>cards that the NAWAC was providing and picking a look

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<v Speaker 6>making spectrograms of vocalizations and things like that.

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<v Speaker 3>They were helping me with that project and that was

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<v Speaker 3>a lot of fun.

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<v Speaker 2>So how did you get into the Bigfoot thing? Because

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, you're a bird guy. I guess your initial

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<v Speaker 2>your main interest interest being in an ornithologist would be

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<v Speaker 2>you know, birds in general. Was the interest always there

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<v Speaker 2>as it is with so many of us, like from

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<v Speaker 2>when you were a little boy, or did it arise

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<v Speaker 2>because something happened to you or when you were around,

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<v Speaker 2>or tell us little bit about your history with the subject.

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<v Speaker 6>In zoology, my initialive interest was not actually herpetology, So

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<v Speaker 6>I grew up herping in North Carolina.

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<v Speaker 2>Which of course study of reptiles, reptiles.

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<v Speaker 6>And amphibians, reptiles and amphibians, herptiles, herpetology, reptiles and amphibians,

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<v Speaker 6>And it was only a little later that. In fact,

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<v Speaker 6>it wasn't until undergraduate at University of North Carolina that

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<v Speaker 6>I got into birds. And as a verneber zoologist, I

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<v Speaker 6>was pretty much interested knowns, including mammals, so I considered

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<v Speaker 6>myself pretty general, although over time I gradually specialized more

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<v Speaker 6>and more in ornithology. As I continued through my academic career,

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<v Speaker 6>getting my master's at Texas Tech and then my doctor

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<v Speaker 6>at Louisiana State University, that shifted me more to birds,

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<v Speaker 6>and particularly neotropical birds, birds of South America. So I

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<v Speaker 6>was on a lot of expeditions during my graduate years

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<v Speaker 6>and after looking for new species of birds with museums

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<v Speaker 6>down in South America. But in terms of cryptozoology, I

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<v Speaker 6>was interested as a teenager. I can trace that back

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<v Speaker 6>to getting on the Track of Unknown Animals by Bernard

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<v Speaker 6>hu Humans, and of course I'm in Sanderson's works and

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<v Speaker 6>John Green's work, So it wasn't just a sasquatch that

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<v Speaker 6>I was interested as all of cryptozoology, which sasquatch gave

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<v Speaker 6>me the most opportunity to do some field work in

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<v Speaker 6>the nineties with Richard Greenwell.

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<v Speaker 4>That's all my head.

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<v Speaker 5>My next getting Stu as you're talking about the books,

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<v Speaker 5>you got my head a done real fast.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, yeah, sounds familiar.

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<v Speaker 2>You're building Bobo's neck muscles. Excellent. You became interested in

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<v Speaker 2>cryptosology in general to all of the various animals that

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<v Speaker 2>might be out there, on Bigfoot being one of those.

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<v Speaker 2>But you how did you make a connection to Greenwell?

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<v Speaker 3>When he started the International Society of Cryptozoology. I found

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<v Speaker 3>out about it right when it started.

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<v Speaker 6>So I was one of the early members and visited

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<v Speaker 6>me in New York City when I was at the

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<v Speaker 6>American zoom Ansal History as a postdoc, and invited me

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<v Speaker 6>in the nineteen nineties to come on the board of directors.

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<v Speaker 6>So I was elected to the board of directors, served

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<v Speaker 6>on the is International Society for Cryptology Board of Directors

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<v Speaker 6>from nineteen ninety three to two thousand and five.

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<v Speaker 3>And I actually even.

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<v Speaker 6>Before that, he had me on an editorial board starting

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<v Speaker 6>in nineteen eighty eight for the journal Cryptozoology, and I

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<v Speaker 6>would hear with you relevant article for the journal and

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<v Speaker 6>got to talk to him quite a bit and became

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<v Speaker 6>really good friends. And then when I read within the

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<v Speaker 6>journal his field report for his expedition one of the

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<v Speaker 6>maybe it was his second expedition I don't recall exactly

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<v Speaker 6>through the Siskew Wilderness of the Sixth River National Forest

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<v Speaker 6>in northern California. It was one that Jeff Belger was

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<v Speaker 6>on and along with a couple other people, including his son,

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<v Speaker 6>Richard's son, And when I read all of the activities

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<v Speaker 6>they had and talked to him more about it, I said, Richard,

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<v Speaker 6>you got to get me in on this that you're

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<v Speaker 6>following the same philosophy that we followed at LSU to

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<v Speaker 6>discover new birds in South America.

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<v Speaker 3>That is, you.

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<v Speaker 6>Select a site and you just sit there and you

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<v Speaker 6>work it, and you work it for weeks, if not

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<v Speaker 6>months in the case of grow and you get to

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<v Speaker 6>know it well. You don't just go trapsing all over

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<v Speaker 6>the place you really become part of the forest and

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<v Speaker 6>get to know that area.

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<v Speaker 3>And he had selected this area, which was centered.

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<v Speaker 6>On Elkhole in the Siske Wilderness, based on past research

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<v Speaker 6>that he had done, as potentially a really excellent place

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<v Speaker 6>to have a long term field project to try to

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<v Speaker 6>get evidence of Sasquatch. And as I say, after I

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<v Speaker 6>found out about the successes they were starting to have

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<v Speaker 6>with encounters, I asked, Hey, I'd love to be on

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<v Speaker 6>some expeditions up there. And I was on three of

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<v Speaker 6>three of them. I wasn't able to go on all

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<v Speaker 6>of them nineteen ninety eight, nineteen ninety nine, and the

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<v Speaker 6>final one two thousand and five, which was just before

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<v Speaker 6>his tragic passing.

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<v Speaker 5>I was so bun I missed those because I was

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<v Speaker 5>I was around in that area when you guys were

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<v Speaker 5>out there, and I knew about you guys been out

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<v Speaker 5>there one time, but I knew Melgium, but not that well.

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<v Speaker 5>And I was like, man, I was wishing I could

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<v Speaker 5>get a gig like Holland bags for you guys or

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<v Speaker 5>doing whatever.

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<v Speaker 6>That's certainly how we got into some of these areas.

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<v Speaker 6>Although to get into el Whole we actually well, actually

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<v Speaker 6>one year he told me he ridded lam as. She

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<v Speaker 6>said he would never do again, said they were very unreliable.

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<v Speaker 6>But in subsequent years we did horses and mules, rented

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<v Speaker 6>those and got into alcohol, which was a really hard

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<v Speaker 6>place to get into, but a great place to work.

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<v Speaker 4>Well.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, the Siski Wilderness area in general has just a

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<v Speaker 2>reputation of being one of the gnarliest areas in North America.

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<v Speaker 2>There are stories of the wildlife firefighters being dropped off

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<v Speaker 2>and having to be rescued out of there. It is

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<v Speaker 2>some of the densest, thickest, nastiest off trail areas you

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<v Speaker 2>could possibly go, with tons of bears, tons of animals,

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<v Speaker 2>and just treacherous terrain. Perfect for sasquatches in every way

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<v Speaker 2>you can imagine, and for the historically oriented bigfooters listening.

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<v Speaker 2>Not far at all from Bluff Creek.

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<v Speaker 6>Yes, In fact, in nineteen ninety eight that's when we

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<v Speaker 6>actually did do Bluff Creek. We hired orders to take

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<v Speaker 6>us down and we spent about a month in Bluff Creek,

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<v Speaker 6>and that was my first trip with him.

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<v Speaker 3>He decided to.

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<v Speaker 6>Switch from the sisk Wilderness Bluff Creek, but then after

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<v Speaker 6>we had nothing.

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00:11:02.600 --> 00:11:03.960
<v Speaker 3>I don't have to Bluff Creek.

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<v Speaker 6>We went back to the wilderness, and that was in

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<v Speaker 6>nineteen ninety nine. But though it was a very useful

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00:11:10.360 --> 00:11:13.440
<v Speaker 6>comparative study to have done Bluff Creek, and it was

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00:11:13.480 --> 00:11:16.240
<v Speaker 6>fun just because he took me down to the Patterson site,

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<v Speaker 6>which I would have never been able to find on

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<v Speaker 6>my own. And it was just kind of neat historically

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<v Speaker 6>to see that side, although it had changed tremendously. As

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<v Speaker 6>those of you who've visited sets.

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<v Speaker 2>Now this is this is so funny because I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>Bluff Creek is essentially Bobo's home stomping grounds, and I've

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<v Speaker 2>been working the Bluff Creek area since nineteen ninety four.

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<v Speaker 2>So we were all there at the same time, just

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<v Speaker 2>we happened to miss each other. Like I think any

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<v Speaker 2>one of us could have been that weird, suspicious guy

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<v Speaker 2>on the road going the opposite direction in that car.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, some of us are more suspicious than others, perhaps,

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<v Speaker 2>but still, like, it's so interesting that we were all

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00:11:50.159 --> 00:11:52.919
<v Speaker 2>there at the same time more or less. Certainly we

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00:11:53.000 --> 00:11:54.600
<v Speaker 2>must have overlapped at some point.

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<v Speaker 3>Probably so.

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<v Speaker 6>And actually we were filmed by a film crew for

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<v Speaker 6>a TV show. We were like a set, but within

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<v Speaker 6>one of those many many different TV shows at the.

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<v Speaker 3>Time that would deal with crypti problems.

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<v Speaker 6>One of the ways that Richard tried to find these

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<v Speaker 6>expeditions was to invite camera crews from different kinds of shows.

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<v Speaker 6>One year even had it from a Japanese TV series

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<v Speaker 6>to kind of helped underwrite it so that we could

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<v Speaker 6>go down to these areas. And at least for the

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<v Speaker 6>nineteen ninety eight one, we did have a film crew

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<v Speaker 6>there briefly. They then left and then we did most

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<v Speaker 6>of our work after that. But that's on a TV

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<v Speaker 6>documentary somewhere. I forget now what TV show was on,

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<v Speaker 6>but you can see us coming out of the Bluff

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<v Speaker 6>Creek Quildness after about a month, looking pretty disheveled.

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<v Speaker 3>Particularly since we ran out of food while we were there.

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<v Speaker 6>Planning got better after that, and so I partly try

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<v Speaker 6>to find where that TV show was that has that

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<v Speaker 6>segment of us.

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<v Speaker 3>I know we were profile along with the Seilacant and

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<v Speaker 3>something else.

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<v Speaker 2>Well that would be that'd be very seem to look into.

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00:13:01.559 --> 00:13:07.000
<v Speaker 2>So I know Greenwell did expeditions to the Sixes River area,

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<v Speaker 2>which is in southern Oregon. You weren't on any of

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<v Speaker 2>those trips. It sounds like no, I.

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<v Speaker 3>Wasn't on any of those. All of mine were in

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<v Speaker 3>northern California.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, so Six Rivers National Forests.

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<v Speaker 3>Yes.

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<v Speaker 2>What are some of the highlights or some of the

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<v Speaker 2>adventures that you can share with us from those expeditions.

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<v Speaker 6>Well, there were certainly many. The nineteen ninety nine one

269
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<v Speaker 6>was a lot of fun. Basically he was still refining

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<v Speaker 6>a lot of his techniques, so some of the techniques

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<v Speaker 6>and teaching them to be as well. I mean, one

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<v Speaker 6>of the techniques was broadcasting. His son was a real

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<v Speaker 6>electronic whiz and put together an incredible broadcast system. So

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<v Speaker 6>we were actually alcohol is at the up at the

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<v Speaker 6>headwaters of bill And Creek. Billan Creek is one of

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<v Speaker 6>those areas that you can't walk down because it's just

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<v Speaker 6>too much, too much brush, too dangerous. People do get

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<v Speaker 6>stranded there, as you mentioned, But he had the philosophy

279
00:13:59.720 --> 00:14:03.480
<v Speaker 6>was that it's very hard to walk up on a sasquatch.

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<v Speaker 6>So we want to interest them in us. We want

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<v Speaker 6>to be the bait. We want to engage their curiosity.

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<v Speaker 6>That was his philosophy. Bring them to us. That's the

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<v Speaker 6>only way this is going to make any sense. Because

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<v Speaker 6>there's no way you could just stumble across that without

285
00:14:16.440 --> 00:14:19.240
<v Speaker 6>your can't as well known and do.

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00:14:19.279 --> 00:14:20.799
<v Speaker 3>Any kind of long term study.

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<v Speaker 6>So we wanted to engage them in being curious about us,

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<v Speaker 6>and that was his philosophy. He did a lot of

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00:14:26.120 --> 00:14:30.600
<v Speaker 6>different things to try to enhance their curiosity and he

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00:14:30.759 --> 00:14:34.279
<v Speaker 6>was very good. Richard was at finagling high tech equipment

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00:14:34.360 --> 00:14:37.720
<v Speaker 6>on loan because again we had really no budget other

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00:14:37.759 --> 00:14:40.559
<v Speaker 6>than our own personal finances, and he would get the

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00:14:40.639 --> 00:14:45.159
<v Speaker 6>high end cameras, thermal cameras, the impetuers, I mean, our

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00:14:45.200 --> 00:14:50.519
<v Speaker 6>source of stuff, seismic sensors. He was he could talk

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00:14:50.639 --> 00:14:53.919
<v Speaker 6>anybody into giving him anything. It was amazing in his

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00:14:54.159 --> 00:14:56.840
<v Speaker 6>impeccable British accent. I think that helped a lot. His

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00:14:56.879 --> 00:15:01.080
<v Speaker 6>British accent really really helped in his interactions with people.

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<v Speaker 6>But he was very verbally adept at engaging people, very extroverted,

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<v Speaker 6>very very friendly, and could get anybody talking to him,

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00:15:10.000 --> 00:15:13.759
<v Speaker 6>which was really neat. And we had all sorts of interesting,

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00:15:15.240 --> 00:15:16.759
<v Speaker 6>you know, sounds and things like that.

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<v Speaker 3>I remember the nineteen ninety nine was.

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<v Speaker 6>The year that I became convinced that we needed to

304
00:15:22.559 --> 00:15:25.360
<v Speaker 6>have better recorders because we kept missing sounds, you know,

305
00:15:25.399 --> 00:15:27.120
<v Speaker 6>we had. It was one of those deals where we

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00:15:27.200 --> 00:15:30.080
<v Speaker 6>had the recorder ready to turn on, and of course

307
00:15:30.080 --> 00:15:31.240
<v Speaker 6>by the time you turn it on.

308
00:15:31.320 --> 00:15:32.879
<v Speaker 3>The sound isn't happening anymore.

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00:15:33.039 --> 00:15:36.879
<v Speaker 6>That was incredibly frustrating, and so for the two thousand

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00:15:36.879 --> 00:15:39.519
<v Speaker 6>and five we actually bought a couple of digital recorders

311
00:15:39.559 --> 00:15:41.519
<v Speaker 6>that we made sure we're going twenty four to seven.

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00:15:41.600 --> 00:15:44.720
<v Speaker 6>Of course, out we have these autonomous recording units that

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00:15:44.759 --> 00:15:49.279
<v Speaker 6>you can get that will go for months continuously without

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00:15:49.320 --> 00:15:52.200
<v Speaker 6>your having to change batteries or SD cards. But at

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00:15:52.240 --> 00:15:55.399
<v Speaker 6>the time it was challenging because again, you just never

316
00:15:55.440 --> 00:15:58.159
<v Speaker 6>knew when a vocalization would happen, and it was very

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00:15:58.200 --> 00:16:00.000
<v Speaker 6>frustrating to miss those.

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<v Speaker 2>Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bobo.

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00:16:05.799 --> 00:16:13.480
<v Speaker 2>We'll be right back after these messages. Boba, are you

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00:16:13.519 --> 00:16:19.759
<v Speaker 2>starting to notice thinning hair? Who me, maybe a little

321
00:16:20.440 --> 00:16:24.360
<v Speaker 2>a little hair left or a little thinning hair both, Well,

322
00:16:24.399 --> 00:16:27.279
<v Speaker 2>I've got good news for you. Bobo Hymns offers access

323
00:16:27.320 --> 00:16:30.080
<v Speaker 2>to prescription treatments for regrowing hair and as little as

324
00:16:30.120 --> 00:16:32.919
<v Speaker 2>three to six months, so you can see a fuller

325
00:16:32.960 --> 00:16:35.799
<v Speaker 2>head of hair like Bobo in the old days. By

326
00:16:35.879 --> 00:16:37.080
<v Speaker 2>fall that'd.

327
00:16:36.919 --> 00:16:40.320
<v Speaker 4>Be nice having a fresh fall crop to harvest. So sweet.

328
00:16:40.799 --> 00:16:43.799
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329
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330
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<v Speaker 2>serums and sprays.

331
00:16:50.600 --> 00:16:53.480
<v Speaker 4>Yep, doctors trust this stuff. It's been clinically proven.

332
00:16:53.480 --> 00:16:56.679
<v Speaker 5>It's got of ingredients like finesteride and oxidil, and that

333
00:16:56.759 --> 00:16:58.480
<v Speaker 5>stuff can stop hair loss and we go hair in

334
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335
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<v Speaker 2>You can get started from the comfort of your own home, cave,

336
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337
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342
00:17:21.880 --> 00:17:23.279
<v Speaker 5>can do it, it's so easy.

343
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344
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349
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350
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351
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352
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353
00:18:00.480 --> 00:18:03.000
<v Speaker 4>Angel What birds have you heard them imitate?

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00:18:03.119 --> 00:18:06.440
<v Speaker 5>Because I've heard of new owls and it sounds like

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00:18:06.440 --> 00:18:08.119
<v Speaker 5>a finch and a few others.

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00:18:08.359 --> 00:18:11.240
<v Speaker 4>What have you heard crows? And what have you heard?

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<v Speaker 2>Well?

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<v Speaker 6>The one that blew me away actually happened when I

359
00:18:15.279 --> 00:18:19.400
<v Speaker 6>started working with the Nawac and the Wachitaw.

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00:18:19.000 --> 00:18:20.920
<v Speaker 3>Mountains of southeastern Oklahoma.

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<v Speaker 6>One of the recordings I had that blew me away

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<v Speaker 6>as an ornithologist is a perfect redent rendition of a

363
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<v Speaker 6>common cuckoo, which is what the cuckoo clock sound is.

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<v Speaker 3>And it was weird.

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<v Speaker 6>We were in camp and hearing this thing, and I'm thinking,

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<v Speaker 6>what on earth? There's no way a common cuckoo would

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<v Speaker 6>be a vagrant from Europe in the mountains of the

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<v Speaker 6>southeast Oklahoma. I'm not even sure if they were recorded

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<v Speaker 6>from North America, and so it would be either from

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<v Speaker 6>Alaska or from northeast Canada. So that's one bird that

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00:18:52.799 --> 00:18:54.720
<v Speaker 6>was weird and The only thing I can ascribe that

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00:18:54.839 --> 00:18:57.839
<v Speaker 6>too is I know that over the years they have

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<v Speaker 6>broadcast all sorts of assimblies of calls or the NAWAC,

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<v Speaker 6>and I can only assume that somebody at some point

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<v Speaker 6>during all the field work there must have broadcast a

376
00:19:08.359 --> 00:19:13.400
<v Speaker 6>cuckoo sound and that was a perfect rendition of a

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00:19:13.440 --> 00:19:17.079
<v Speaker 6>common cuckoo. I have that on as a recording and

378
00:19:17.240 --> 00:19:20.480
<v Speaker 6>you couldn't tell it from So that's a bird that

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00:19:20.480 --> 00:19:22.440
<v Speaker 6>freaks me out in the most now, And of course

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<v Speaker 6>it stood out to an ornithologist because we knew it

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00:19:24.960 --> 00:19:27.079
<v Speaker 6>wasn't a bird that could be there. Whereas if they're

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00:19:27.119 --> 00:19:30.279
<v Speaker 6>imitating other birds that could be there or are there,

383
00:19:30.519 --> 00:19:33.839
<v Speaker 6>it gets a little bit trickier to ascertain whether you're

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00:19:33.839 --> 00:19:36.160
<v Speaker 6>dealing with demoicry or the real thing.

385
00:19:36.279 --> 00:19:40.440
<v Speaker 5>Bird wise, what have you been like perplexed about, like

386
00:19:40.480 --> 00:19:43.119
<v Speaker 5>what you couldn't for sure say either way it was

387
00:19:43.160 --> 00:19:44.759
<v Speaker 5>an imitation or an actual bird.

388
00:19:45.680 --> 00:19:48.680
<v Speaker 6>Well, from my own experience, everything I've heard so far

389
00:19:48.880 --> 00:19:51.200
<v Speaker 6>in terms of birds that are supposed to be there

390
00:19:51.240 --> 00:19:55.200
<v Speaker 6>have been those birds. So I haven't heard any imitations

391
00:19:55.680 --> 00:20:01.279
<v Speaker 6>of native bird species that made me suspicion. So in

392
00:20:01.359 --> 00:20:02.799
<v Speaker 6>terms of that vocal arena.

393
00:20:02.960 --> 00:20:06.440
<v Speaker 3>I haven't. I can't really offer more on that score.

394
00:20:08.039 --> 00:20:09.599
<v Speaker 4>Eight hundred pound owls.

395
00:20:10.519 --> 00:20:12.519
<v Speaker 6>No, No, all the owls that we hear, and we

396
00:20:12.559 --> 00:20:14.880
<v Speaker 6>hear a lot i'll sound like the regular owls of

397
00:20:14.880 --> 00:20:18.599
<v Speaker 6>different species. Yes, but again, the mendicory of that common

398
00:20:18.640 --> 00:20:21.799
<v Speaker 6>cuckoo was just spot on. And if they're that good,

399
00:20:21.880 --> 00:20:24.279
<v Speaker 6>and you've sounds like you've had experience with that, if

400
00:20:24.279 --> 00:20:27.079
<v Speaker 6>they're that good, then it might be tough to tell

401
00:20:27.279 --> 00:20:31.119
<v Speaker 6>a part without doing a spectrogram, without doing a spectrographic analysis.

402
00:20:31.359 --> 00:20:34.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's something that often I've wondered about. Is I

403
00:20:34.480 --> 00:20:36.680
<v Speaker 2>do hear a lot of bigfooters say that I've heard

404
00:20:36.680 --> 00:20:39.279
<v Speaker 2>an owl, but it was eight feet off the ground

405
00:20:39.319 --> 00:20:41.799
<v Speaker 2>and had to be eight hundred pounds and all this

406
00:20:41.839 --> 00:20:44.359
<v Speaker 2>other stuff. I say, Well, I don't know. Shouldn't we

407
00:20:44.440 --> 00:20:48.480
<v Speaker 2>be giving sasquatches more credited being better imitators than that? Like,

408
00:20:48.680 --> 00:20:50.960
<v Speaker 2>I think that if a sasquatch was doing something, unless

409
00:20:50.960 --> 00:20:53.119
<v Speaker 2>it was completely out of place, like a bird species

410
00:20:53.160 --> 00:20:55.920
<v Speaker 2>that doesn't live there, you would have a hard time

411
00:20:56.240 --> 00:20:58.960
<v Speaker 2>figuring out if it was a big foot mimicking something

412
00:20:59.079 --> 00:21:02.000
<v Speaker 2>or if it was the actual thing. Just recently, on

413
00:21:02.000 --> 00:21:04.920
<v Speaker 2>on on on another podcast we were doing with Kathy Strain,

414
00:21:04.960 --> 00:21:06.960
<v Speaker 2>and I mentioned this every once in a while. I

415
00:21:07.079 --> 00:21:10.240
<v Speaker 2>mentioned hearing car doors slam in the woods, and for me,

416
00:21:10.680 --> 00:21:13.880
<v Speaker 2>if I was anywhere else but the woods, I would

417
00:21:13.880 --> 00:21:16.039
<v Speaker 2>just assume it was a card door slamming. So is

418
00:21:16.079 --> 00:21:18.839
<v Speaker 2>there any way that one can tell the difference if

419
00:21:19.240 --> 00:21:22.920
<v Speaker 2>the if the sound is indigenous to the area, you know,

420
00:21:22.920 --> 00:21:25.680
<v Speaker 2>because obviously card door sounds aren't indigenous to the bottom

421
00:21:25.680 --> 00:21:30.079
<v Speaker 2>of the Siski Widerness Area or something. But what avenues

422
00:21:30.119 --> 00:21:32.799
<v Speaker 2>do you think that a researcher could take to kind

423
00:21:32.799 --> 00:21:37.000
<v Speaker 2>of show that they're not just saying it better microphones.

424
00:21:37.200 --> 00:21:39.559
<v Speaker 6>I suspect, well, yeah, I suspect if you had a

425
00:21:39.559 --> 00:21:44.200
<v Speaker 6>good recording and you did a spectrogram gram uh spectrographic

426
00:21:44.200 --> 00:21:46.880
<v Speaker 6>analysis compared it to known sounds, that you would see

427
00:21:46.880 --> 00:21:50.519
<v Speaker 6>differences that would start showing up. And you might even

428
00:21:50.519 --> 00:21:53.240
<v Speaker 6>hear that and experience here who really knew the native

429
00:21:53.279 --> 00:21:56.680
<v Speaker 6>birds might well be able to detect differences too in

430
00:21:56.799 --> 00:22:00.319
<v Speaker 6>terms of pitch or some other more subtle aspect that

431
00:22:00.400 --> 00:22:05.160
<v Speaker 6>might not be evident to a non ornithologist and actually

432
00:22:05.200 --> 00:22:08.400
<v Speaker 6>member create itself. It's really fascinating because if you look

433
00:22:08.440 --> 00:22:11.079
<v Speaker 6>about the great apes, they don't mimic, and they particularly

434
00:22:11.119 --> 00:22:14.559
<v Speaker 6>don't whistle. And the fact that we have whistling vocalizations.

435
00:22:14.599 --> 00:22:16.440
<v Speaker 6>In fact, that was one I also heard down in

436
00:22:16.519 --> 00:22:20.480
<v Speaker 6>the watchatas that completely freaked me out. The average a

437
00:22:20.559 --> 00:22:22.359
<v Speaker 6>person would probably just thought it was some sort of

438
00:22:22.559 --> 00:22:26.480
<v Speaker 6>nighttime bird, But we had a visitor into camp right

439
00:22:26.519 --> 00:22:29.759
<v Speaker 6>at dusk that did a series of really fascinating whistles,

440
00:22:30.039 --> 00:22:32.400
<v Speaker 6>and I told my camp mates at the time that.

441
00:22:32.319 --> 00:22:35.079
<v Speaker 3>This is no bird. This is clearly no bird.

442
00:22:35.319 --> 00:22:38.599
<v Speaker 6>And it had come in response to having done some

443
00:22:38.680 --> 00:22:42.920
<v Speaker 6>broadcasting earlier in the watch Guitas. So one I think

444
00:22:43.079 --> 00:22:47.319
<v Speaker 6>may if you aren't familiar with your local soundscape, people

445
00:22:47.319 --> 00:22:50.359
<v Speaker 6>may be overlooking certain vocalizations that are being made by

446
00:22:50.359 --> 00:22:50.880
<v Speaker 6>these things.

447
00:22:51.319 --> 00:22:54.319
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, and how many people are really fluent, so

448
00:22:54.359 --> 00:22:57.200
<v Speaker 2>to speak, at all the different night sounds. I mean,

449
00:22:57.480 --> 00:22:59.079
<v Speaker 2>Bobo and I spent a lot of time in the

450
00:22:59.119 --> 00:23:02.440
<v Speaker 2>woods at night, probably more than most, I think it

451
00:23:02.519 --> 00:23:04.880
<v Speaker 2>might even be fair to say. And I can't even say,

452
00:23:04.880 --> 00:23:07.440
<v Speaker 2>I can't claim that I'm familiar with the vast majority

453
00:23:07.480 --> 00:23:09.039
<v Speaker 2>of night sounds. I mean a lot of them. Yeah,

454
00:23:09.279 --> 00:23:11.359
<v Speaker 2>but still I hear whistles and I don't know what's

455
00:23:11.400 --> 00:23:14.079
<v Speaker 2>making them. It's it's just it's just a difficult it's

456
00:23:14.119 --> 00:23:16.200
<v Speaker 2>just too much, too much to be able to master

457
00:23:16.319 --> 00:23:17.720
<v Speaker 2>unless you're a specialist.

458
00:23:18.119 --> 00:23:20.119
<v Speaker 6>That's true, but all the more reason that we should

459
00:23:20.119 --> 00:23:22.559
<v Speaker 6>be doing a lot more recording than we do because

460
00:23:22.640 --> 00:23:26.400
<v Speaker 6>the vocal arena. I know people want to see these things,

461
00:23:26.400 --> 00:23:29.200
<v Speaker 6>for sure, but I guess maybe coming as an ornithologist,

462
00:23:29.279 --> 00:23:33.519
<v Speaker 6>I find the vocal aspect really fascinating in terms of

463
00:23:33.839 --> 00:23:37.319
<v Speaker 6>trying to contextualize it, see if there's regional variations in

464
00:23:37.359 --> 00:23:40.880
<v Speaker 6>the types of vocalizations and the like, because I think

465
00:23:40.920 --> 00:23:44.839
<v Speaker 6>that that as with birds, if you've ever talked to

466
00:23:44.880 --> 00:23:47.400
<v Speaker 6>a birdwatcher, you find a lot more birds by sound

467
00:23:47.440 --> 00:23:50.960
<v Speaker 6>than by sight, and that may work in this arena

468
00:23:51.000 --> 00:23:51.519
<v Speaker 6>as well.

469
00:23:52.000 --> 00:23:55.440
<v Speaker 2>Oh. For sure, not only should we be recording more,

470
00:23:55.559 --> 00:23:59.079
<v Speaker 2>we should also be collaborating more because other people know

471
00:23:59.160 --> 00:24:01.039
<v Speaker 2>a lot more than I do, you know, and it's

472
00:24:01.079 --> 00:24:02.680
<v Speaker 2>a good thing to have people on your team where

473
00:24:02.680 --> 00:24:04.640
<v Speaker 2>you can ask questions of that just might be able

474
00:24:04.640 --> 00:24:06.079
<v Speaker 2>to identify those sounds in the dark.

475
00:24:06.680 --> 00:24:08.119
<v Speaker 3>Yes, and actually it's interesting.

476
00:24:08.160 --> 00:24:11.640
<v Speaker 6>In nineteen ninety one I wrote a small little paper

477
00:24:11.759 --> 00:24:16.680
<v Speaker 6>in the journal Cryptozoology called cooperation a Key to progressing cryptozoology.

478
00:24:18.480 --> 00:24:18.960
<v Speaker 2>There you go.

479
00:24:19.079 --> 00:24:23.559
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, what I advocated is that is that field researchers

480
00:24:24.079 --> 00:24:28.240
<v Speaker 6>collaborate as much as possible with sympathetic scientists. I've seen

481
00:24:28.279 --> 00:24:33.039
<v Speaker 6>too much of irritation, understandable irritation with the scientific community

482
00:24:33.079 --> 00:24:35.799
<v Speaker 6>of doing things and the light, but it had gotten

483
00:24:35.839 --> 00:24:38.079
<v Speaker 6>to the point where people were just saying.

484
00:24:37.799 --> 00:24:40.359
<v Speaker 3>Well, the heck with scientists and heck with science.

485
00:24:40.400 --> 00:24:42.799
<v Speaker 6>You know, we're just going to get rid of that altogether,

486
00:24:42.920 --> 00:24:46.480
<v Speaker 6>instead of trying to find those sympathetic scientists and trying

487
00:24:46.480 --> 00:24:50.640
<v Speaker 6>to collaborate because the big SO community is doing a

488
00:24:50.640 --> 00:24:54.359
<v Speaker 6>lot of that, are doing incredible fieldwork, but to help

489
00:24:54.359 --> 00:24:58.279
<v Speaker 6>with the analysis, it's good to have academically trained biologists

490
00:24:58.279 --> 00:25:00.720
<v Speaker 6>as well, and both can comple at each other.

491
00:25:01.519 --> 00:25:04.440
<v Speaker 5>Oh for sure, because I like guys I've grown that

492
00:25:04.519 --> 00:25:06.720
<v Speaker 5>grew up hunting around you. I grew up in the

493
00:25:06.720 --> 00:25:08.279
<v Speaker 5>cliff and I both grew up in the city. I

494
00:25:08.319 --> 00:25:09.599
<v Speaker 5>went out and the Wizard with my dad and stuff

495
00:25:09.559 --> 00:25:11.359
<v Speaker 5>like that. But he didn't know what we were hearing.

496
00:25:11.799 --> 00:25:13.839
<v Speaker 5>But I think a lot of people go, that's all

497
00:25:13.960 --> 00:25:15.759
<v Speaker 5>you know, that's a mountain liner, that's a bobcat, or

498
00:25:15.759 --> 00:25:18.440
<v Speaker 5>that's a now or whatever. Or they'll just say, I'm

499
00:25:18.440 --> 00:25:20.119
<v Speaker 5>not sure what that is. It's but it's not a

500
00:25:20.119 --> 00:25:22.400
<v Speaker 5>big foot. It's like, well, you you might have been

501
00:25:22.400 --> 00:25:25.079
<v Speaker 5>told since your dad was told his dad was told

502
00:25:25.119 --> 00:25:26.599
<v Speaker 5>that that's that's a mountain lion.

503
00:25:27.039 --> 00:25:29.279
<v Speaker 4>That weird. It's just a weird, stunting mountain line. They've

504
00:25:29.279 --> 00:25:30.279
<v Speaker 4>may have been hearing.

505
00:25:30.200 --> 00:25:32.400
<v Speaker 5>Bigfoots all these years and just didn't and they had

506
00:25:32.400 --> 00:25:34.759
<v Speaker 5>no idea exactly exactly.

507
00:25:34.839 --> 00:25:37.519
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, learning the soundscape in your area it takes a

508
00:25:37.559 --> 00:25:40.880
<v Speaker 6>lot of work. And uh, even for me, I really

509
00:25:40.960 --> 00:25:42.960
<v Speaker 6>know the birds well, but I still don't know all

510
00:25:42.960 --> 00:25:46.279
<v Speaker 6>the mammals that well, even locally out and many of

511
00:25:46.279 --> 00:25:49.559
<v Speaker 6>them can make some pretty bird sounds. Fortunately, there's a

512
00:25:49.599 --> 00:25:52.559
<v Speaker 6>lot of acoustical research being done and you could go

513
00:25:52.640 --> 00:25:56.559
<v Speaker 6>on places like the McAuley Library at Cornell and learned

514
00:25:56.599 --> 00:26:00.640
<v Speaker 6>a lot of sounds that are in your area of

515
00:26:00.680 --> 00:26:03.920
<v Speaker 6>both mammals and birds, and that's a real big help

516
00:26:04.000 --> 00:26:07.480
<v Speaker 6>in terms of trying to cut through all of that

517
00:26:07.720 --> 00:26:10.240
<v Speaker 6>and ask if what you actually have recorded or heard

518
00:26:11.279 --> 00:26:13.920
<v Speaker 6>might be a part of a sasquatch or something unknown.

519
00:26:14.599 --> 00:26:16.200
<v Speaker 2>Well, you know, we got off on the tangent there

520
00:26:16.200 --> 00:26:18.720
<v Speaker 2>for a second, and it was a valuable tangent, but

521
00:26:18.799 --> 00:26:21.240
<v Speaker 2>still I kind of want to hear more about the expeditions.

522
00:26:21.599 --> 00:26:22.240
<v Speaker 4>Yeah.

523
00:26:22.359 --> 00:26:25.720
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, both Oma and I are both students of Bigfoot history,

524
00:26:25.759 --> 00:26:27.799
<v Speaker 2>and you were right there for big junks of it.

525
00:26:28.359 --> 00:26:30.720
<v Speaker 6>Right again, I was so amazed at what Richard could

526
00:26:30.720 --> 00:26:33.519
<v Speaker 6>pull together in terms of equipment and other things.

527
00:26:33.559 --> 00:26:35.160
<v Speaker 3>I mean, the basic techniques are things that.

528
00:26:35.079 --> 00:26:37.599
<v Speaker 6>Are done today, you know, putting up cameras, although we

529
00:26:37.640 --> 00:26:39.599
<v Speaker 6>now know how hard it is to get things on

530
00:26:39.720 --> 00:26:46.039
<v Speaker 6>cameras and thermal imagers and just trying to record with

531
00:26:46.240 --> 00:26:50.079
<v Speaker 6>really inferior equipment. At the time, the broadcasting was new

532
00:26:50.119 --> 00:26:52.240
<v Speaker 6>to me. I don't know how commonly that was done

533
00:26:52.720 --> 00:26:56.359
<v Speaker 6>at this time, but there when he first started doing

534
00:26:56.799 --> 00:27:00.599
<v Speaker 6>his trips through the wilderness, he had his son put

535
00:27:00.599 --> 00:27:04.680
<v Speaker 6>together a state of the art broadcasting system that when

536
00:27:04.759 --> 00:27:08.240
<v Speaker 6>it projected we basically Elkohol looking at the headwiters of

537
00:27:08.279 --> 00:27:08.839
<v Speaker 6>Dylan Creek.

538
00:27:08.880 --> 00:27:12.240
<v Speaker 3>You could go to an overlook, a rocky promontory and

539
00:27:12.279 --> 00:27:12.839
<v Speaker 3>you could.

540
00:27:12.599 --> 00:27:15.680
<v Speaker 6>Project down into Dylan Creek and I swear you could

541
00:27:15.680 --> 00:27:18.480
<v Speaker 6>hear at least seven echoes as it echoed down from

542
00:27:18.559 --> 00:27:22.680
<v Speaker 6>the canyon, trying to bring them up to see us

543
00:27:22.720 --> 00:27:24.559
<v Speaker 6>and figure out what's going on and trying to induce

544
00:27:24.559 --> 00:27:25.720
<v Speaker 6>the curiosity response.

545
00:27:26.079 --> 00:27:28.440
<v Speaker 3>That for me was new to see that being done. Again.

546
00:27:28.480 --> 00:27:30.279
<v Speaker 6>I don't know how commonly that was being done at

547
00:27:30.319 --> 00:27:32.720
<v Speaker 6>the time, but for me it was a new technique

548
00:27:32.759 --> 00:27:36.200
<v Speaker 6>to see and operation. And then the other thing that

549
00:27:36.400 --> 00:27:41.039
<v Speaker 6>was methodologically was just again just spending good time in

550
00:27:41.119 --> 00:27:44.680
<v Speaker 6>the camp. He also felt like we also insisted that

551
00:27:44.720 --> 00:27:47.480
<v Speaker 6>we all dressed in camo but not carry any guns,

552
00:27:48.000 --> 00:27:50.119
<v Speaker 6>And part of his thinking there was that they would

553
00:27:50.160 --> 00:27:52.559
<v Speaker 6>be curious is why we looked like hunters but didn't

554
00:27:52.640 --> 00:27:56.960
<v Speaker 6>fully act like hunters. So that was another aspect of

555
00:27:57.000 --> 00:28:01.240
<v Speaker 6>what he argued for one year on year, and I

556
00:28:01.279 --> 00:28:03.039
<v Speaker 6>think that was in nineteen ninety nine. One of the

557
00:28:03.079 --> 00:28:05.160
<v Speaker 6>craziest this is to show how good he was, he

558
00:28:05.240 --> 00:28:08.799
<v Speaker 6>actually brought he had gotten hold of a urine sample

559
00:28:08.880 --> 00:28:17.000
<v Speaker 6>from a menstruating orangutan and deployed that from the promontary

560
00:28:17.079 --> 00:28:19.960
<v Speaker 6>where we would broadcast tracking it all way to camp.

561
00:28:20.000 --> 00:28:23.960
<v Speaker 6>I don't think it actually elicited anything, but just the

562
00:28:24.000 --> 00:28:26.000
<v Speaker 6>idea that he could even come up with something like

563
00:28:26.000 --> 00:28:28.279
<v Speaker 6>that just always amazed me. Yeah, like who do you

564
00:28:28.400 --> 00:28:30.240
<v Speaker 6>talk too to get that? And you know, like, yeah,

565
00:28:30.440 --> 00:28:35.319
<v Speaker 6>I really need this. What do you need, Well, we'll

566
00:28:35.319 --> 00:28:35.960
<v Speaker 6>get to that later.

567
00:28:36.039 --> 00:28:36.640
<v Speaker 2>I really need it.

568
00:28:36.960 --> 00:28:40.160
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, he had developed a whole network of contexts, contacts,

569
00:28:40.240 --> 00:28:43.200
<v Speaker 6>and if you're familiar with the Society and the journal,

570
00:28:43.240 --> 00:28:46.559
<v Speaker 6>you know that all academic scientists were on both the

571
00:28:46.559 --> 00:28:49.440
<v Speaker 6>board of directors and editorial boards. So he had really

572
00:28:49.440 --> 00:28:51.839
<v Speaker 6>been working for a couple of decades to put together

573
00:28:52.039 --> 00:28:58.400
<v Speaker 6>an academic group of knowledge academics at non institutions where

574
00:28:58.400 --> 00:29:03.039
<v Speaker 6>the museums or university, to try to elevate, if you will,

575
00:29:03.400 --> 00:29:08.279
<v Speaker 6>the perception of cryptozoology among everyone, and to also provide

576
00:29:08.400 --> 00:29:10.920
<v Speaker 6>a peer review system through the Peer of You Journal,

577
00:29:11.319 --> 00:29:15.319
<v Speaker 6>and a forum for exploring this in a very scientific sense.

578
00:29:15.359 --> 00:29:17.279
<v Speaker 6>And I think all of that paid off of the

579
00:29:17.359 --> 00:29:19.759
<v Speaker 6>years he was just incredibly good at networking.

580
00:29:20.720 --> 00:29:21.920
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, you know, I was going to go back to me.

581
00:29:22.000 --> 00:29:24.160
<v Speaker 5>You said they might they'd be confused. But I've seen

582
00:29:24.200 --> 00:29:27.400
<v Speaker 5>these guys without guns and cameo. I can assure they

583
00:29:27.400 --> 00:29:30.440
<v Speaker 5>were not, because that was back in the heyday, guys

584
00:29:30.480 --> 00:29:33.440
<v Speaker 5>growing illegal weed out there. And I actually had two

585
00:29:33.480 --> 00:29:36.640
<v Speaker 5>buddies that grew in Dylan Creek for twenty years, and

586
00:29:36.640 --> 00:29:39.559
<v Speaker 5>they would always see a big white male, like head

587
00:29:39.559 --> 00:29:43.400
<v Speaker 5>to toe white, like a dirty white and they just

588
00:29:43.599 --> 00:29:45.440
<v Speaker 5>they said, it never got a digressive, it never did

589
00:29:45.440 --> 00:29:47.000
<v Speaker 5>anything to them, but they would just watch them.

590
00:29:47.359 --> 00:29:50.799
<v Speaker 3>Wow, well, yeah, that's really funny. Well, we didn't try

591
00:29:50.799 --> 00:29:56.160
<v Speaker 3>to do that, so he went wrong, I guess.

592
00:29:56.160 --> 00:30:00.279
<v Speaker 2>So, I guess, so you could have funded your own expeditions.

593
00:30:00.319 --> 00:30:06.440
<v Speaker 3>Well indeed, for sure. Well two thousand and five was

594
00:30:06.480 --> 00:30:08.839
<v Speaker 3>really the pinnacle and all, but it was kind of

595
00:30:08.839 --> 00:30:12.279
<v Speaker 3>a tragic into the pinnacle because he passed away a

596
00:30:12.279 --> 00:30:15.799
<v Speaker 3>couple of months later from a cancer that came out

597
00:30:15.799 --> 00:30:20.359
<v Speaker 3>of remission, and nothing ever got written up.

598
00:30:20.440 --> 00:30:23.319
<v Speaker 6>He had all of the materials and things to be analyzed,

599
00:30:23.480 --> 00:30:27.119
<v Speaker 6>and I was unable to get those from his heirs

600
00:30:27.960 --> 00:30:30.400
<v Speaker 6>as far as I know, they're still in storage somewhere.

601
00:30:30.839 --> 00:30:32.400
<v Speaker 3>But I can tell you a couple of things that

602
00:30:32.559 --> 00:30:34.319
<v Speaker 3>happened that just really impressed me.

603
00:30:34.880 --> 00:30:39.039
<v Speaker 6>One was that once we started broadcasting, we had visitations

604
00:30:39.039 --> 00:30:42.279
<v Speaker 6>every night. Something was happening every night in terms of

605
00:30:42.359 --> 00:30:46.359
<v Speaker 6>hearing things and seeing the remnants of them behind our

606
00:30:46.400 --> 00:30:50.079
<v Speaker 6>tents and things like that. I never had a visual,

607
00:30:51.440 --> 00:30:55.440
<v Speaker 6>but his son and his son's friend Mike, had some visuals.

608
00:30:55.440 --> 00:30:58.319
<v Speaker 6>At the head of the trail that goes into that

609
00:30:58.400 --> 00:31:00.799
<v Speaker 6>gets you back to alcohol, as well as his son

610
00:31:01.079 --> 00:31:03.599
<v Speaker 6>had a visual on the road to the head of

611
00:31:03.599 --> 00:31:06.960
<v Speaker 6>the trail when he was coming back with some refurbished equipment.

612
00:31:07.200 --> 00:31:10.559
<v Speaker 6>But one of the most amazing things that happened happened

613
00:31:10.559 --> 00:31:14.160
<v Speaker 6>to Mike, who was a friend of Darwin Greenwell and

614
00:31:14.359 --> 00:31:17.880
<v Speaker 6>was on the trip for the first time. So we

615
00:31:17.920 --> 00:31:21.599
<v Speaker 6>had as our protocol saying that if anything happened at

616
00:31:21.640 --> 00:31:23.720
<v Speaker 6>the night that woke us up, we would still pretend

617
00:31:23.759 --> 00:31:26.720
<v Speaker 6>to stay asleep, the idea being that we didn't want

618
00:31:26.759 --> 00:31:27.279
<v Speaker 6>to try.

619
00:31:27.119 --> 00:31:28.480
<v Speaker 3>To look on our own or anything.

620
00:31:28.519 --> 00:31:32.039
<v Speaker 6>So we were forbidden to unzip the tent or do

621
00:31:32.160 --> 00:31:35.079
<v Speaker 6>anything but stay asleep until morning, with the hope that

622
00:31:35.480 --> 00:31:37.480
<v Speaker 6>if there was a visitation, you know, there would be

623
00:31:37.680 --> 00:31:39.400
<v Speaker 6>enhanced the likelihood it would get in front of the

624
00:31:39.400 --> 00:31:44.759
<v Speaker 6>cameras or whatnot. Well, Mike had the record for composure

625
00:31:45.599 --> 00:31:48.200
<v Speaker 6>because what happened to him is he apparently he was

626
00:31:48.240 --> 00:31:51.559
<v Speaker 6>in one of these smaller tents. He was up against

627
00:31:51.559 --> 00:31:55.559
<v Speaker 6>the brush line, and he had his back against the tent,

628
00:31:56.240 --> 00:31:58.599
<v Speaker 6>and he said, the next thing he realized is he

629
00:31:58.640 --> 00:32:04.079
<v Speaker 6>could feel this giant hand pushing in the tent along

630
00:32:04.160 --> 00:32:07.519
<v Speaker 6>his back, kind of feeling up along his back and

631
00:32:07.640 --> 00:32:11.200
<v Speaker 6>onto his stomach and then retracting, and he kept his

632
00:32:11.240 --> 00:32:15.680
<v Speaker 6>composure the entire time, which I'm amazed at, until dawn,

633
00:32:16.119 --> 00:32:18.599
<v Speaker 6>which was a little bit later. And then he got

634
00:32:18.640 --> 00:32:21.640
<v Speaker 6>out of the tent. He was pretty shaken by it all.

635
00:32:22.039 --> 00:32:24.359
<v Speaker 6>He went to have a smoke and something started throwing

636
00:32:24.480 --> 00:32:29.039
<v Speaker 6>rocks at And when he told us that the next morning,

637
00:32:29.160 --> 00:32:33.680
<v Speaker 6>we were pretty amazed at that whole experience that he had,

638
00:32:33.759 --> 00:32:36.799
<v Speaker 6>that the thing actually touched him through the tent.

639
00:32:38.119 --> 00:32:42.240
<v Speaker 4>He controls bowls even yes, give.

640
00:32:42.160 --> 00:32:42.880
<v Speaker 2>Him credit for that.

641
00:32:44.440 --> 00:32:46.279
<v Speaker 3>I mean, he was clearly shaped by it all.

642
00:32:46.359 --> 00:32:49.559
<v Speaker 6>But he followed the protocol and that was I would

643
00:32:49.559 --> 00:32:52.720
<v Speaker 6>say the closest if you will encounter that we had.

644
00:32:53.319 --> 00:32:56.440
<v Speaker 2>Now, did you guys retrieve any physical evidence, either footprints

645
00:32:56.559 --> 00:33:00.720
<v Speaker 2>or photographs or casts or anything like that or anything

646
00:33:00.759 --> 00:33:01.079
<v Speaker 2>at all.

647
00:33:01.880 --> 00:33:03.839
<v Speaker 6>We did have some footprints, but they were in the

648
00:33:03.920 --> 00:33:06.720
<v Speaker 6>duff and they were just impossible to cast. It was

649
00:33:06.799 --> 00:33:09.640
<v Speaker 6>just the soil was just not castable. We did have

650
00:33:09.720 --> 00:33:12.279
<v Speaker 6>hair samples. One of the things that I brought was

651
00:33:12.319 --> 00:33:15.960
<v Speaker 6>a DNA sampling kit. I had DNA storage buffer and

652
00:33:16.000 --> 00:33:19.519
<v Speaker 6>all of that. I had materials, so I could you know,

653
00:33:20.400 --> 00:33:25.240
<v Speaker 6>wipe down any tweezers, any forceps, so that I could

654
00:33:25.279 --> 00:33:27.119
<v Speaker 6>just infect them ahead of time and make sure that

655
00:33:27.200 --> 00:33:30.799
<v Speaker 6>were no contamination. And one night after a visitation, that

656
00:33:30.960 --> 00:33:34.799
<v Speaker 6>night we found about six hairs with follicles attached that

657
00:33:35.000 --> 00:33:38.559
<v Speaker 6>were on a part of the broken limb just behind

658
00:33:38.599 --> 00:33:42.759
<v Speaker 6>our tents where this thing kept hanging out. And discovered

659
00:33:42.799 --> 00:33:45.160
<v Speaker 6>it first thing in the morning and immediately got out

660
00:33:45.200 --> 00:33:48.640
<v Speaker 6>my DNA sampling kit, followed clean technique, had gloves, I

661
00:33:48.640 --> 00:33:50.720
<v Speaker 6>had everything you would need for doing that, put it

662
00:33:50.759 --> 00:33:54.119
<v Speaker 6>in the DNA storage buffer, and then brought it back

663
00:33:54.720 --> 00:33:56.720
<v Speaker 6>And that was the one piece of evidence that I

664
00:33:56.759 --> 00:33:59.839
<v Speaker 6>did convince them to send me before Richard passed away

665
00:34:00.279 --> 00:34:03.400
<v Speaker 6>the recordings and other things. Unfortunately, like I say, there,

666
00:34:03.799 --> 00:34:05.920
<v Speaker 6>who knows where? I don't know where where they are

667
00:34:05.960 --> 00:34:09.079
<v Speaker 6>at this time. But I had these hair samples and

668
00:34:09.320 --> 00:34:12.280
<v Speaker 6>had them refrigerated, and then here I was stuck with

669
00:34:12.320 --> 00:34:14.519
<v Speaker 6>the idea what do I do with them? So I

670
00:34:14.559 --> 00:34:17.719
<v Speaker 6>started inquiring trying to find a lab that would handle them,

671
00:34:17.760 --> 00:34:19.559
<v Speaker 6>you know, to do some DNA work, because I knew

672
00:34:19.599 --> 00:34:22.440
<v Speaker 6>they were totally fresh, I knew it had the follicle

673
00:34:22.639 --> 00:34:26.559
<v Speaker 6>along with the main hairstem. We knew that it had

674
00:34:26.599 --> 00:34:29.239
<v Speaker 6>to be a sasquatch. The only other possibility was a bear,

675
00:34:29.280 --> 00:34:32.239
<v Speaker 6>but we had had no bear activity in camp.

676
00:34:32.039 --> 00:34:36.920
<v Speaker 3>For a while. And finally, finally, finally, I heard about

677
00:34:36.960 --> 00:34:41.400
<v Speaker 3>the project that the Melba Ketchum and David Polaidi's were

678
00:34:41.440 --> 00:34:44.239
<v Speaker 3>talking about, I forget the name of the project where

679
00:34:44.239 --> 00:34:49.000
<v Speaker 3>they were looking for samples, and I sent them my samples,

680
00:34:49.519 --> 00:34:54.079
<v Speaker 3>all six hair follicles. They passed the pre screening morphologically apparently,

681
00:34:54.480 --> 00:34:56.760
<v Speaker 3>and then became of that study. But as we all know,

682
00:34:56.960 --> 00:35:01.159
<v Speaker 3>that whole study sort of evolved into what and I

683
00:35:01.199 --> 00:35:04.199
<v Speaker 3>regret to this day having sent all of them to

684
00:35:04.440 --> 00:35:06.719
<v Speaker 3>that study because it just did not work out.

685
00:35:08.599 --> 00:35:12.000
<v Speaker 2>Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bogo.

686
00:35:12.199 --> 00:35:20.880
<v Speaker 2>We'll be right back after these messages. Yeah, the lesson

687
00:35:20.960 --> 00:35:24.440
<v Speaker 2>learned there is give one keep the rest, you know.

688
00:35:25.000 --> 00:35:25.360
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

689
00:35:25.400 --> 00:35:28.639
<v Speaker 6>Well, I had spent several years trying to find anybody

690
00:35:28.639 --> 00:35:30.519
<v Speaker 6>who would just take a look at them, and that

691
00:35:30.639 --> 00:35:33.199
<v Speaker 6>was really frustrating. So when I finally heard what I

692
00:35:33.199 --> 00:35:35.719
<v Speaker 6>thought was going to be a credible approach, at least

693
00:35:35.760 --> 00:35:38.960
<v Speaker 6>as it was initially presented, I thought, Okay, you know,

694
00:35:39.440 --> 00:35:42.519
<v Speaker 6>have at it, because we really need to get these analyzed.

695
00:35:42.519 --> 00:35:45.280
<v Speaker 6>But unfortunately they're long gone.

696
00:35:45.519 --> 00:35:48.199
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, never to be seen again. Probably, I'm guessing.

697
00:35:48.320 --> 00:35:51.039
<v Speaker 6>Never to be seen again, that's true, But that was

698
00:35:51.079 --> 00:35:53.599
<v Speaker 6>probably some of our best physical evidence that we had

699
00:35:53.960 --> 00:35:56.199
<v Speaker 6>along with Oh and I think the other thing that

700
00:35:56.280 --> 00:35:58.880
<v Speaker 6>really impressed me is we had a thermal imaging camera.

701
00:35:59.119 --> 00:36:00.840
<v Speaker 6>We never could get any thing, as you all know,

702
00:36:00.960 --> 00:36:04.639
<v Speaker 6>on these night cameras, and as people speculate, these are

703
00:36:04.639 --> 00:36:07.119
<v Speaker 6>certainly night cameras that had a pretty evident red light

704
00:36:07.199 --> 00:36:11.679
<v Speaker 6>on them, and so if anything really wanted to avoid them,

705
00:36:11.679 --> 00:36:14.679
<v Speaker 6>they could certainly see them easily enough. But interestingly enough,

706
00:36:14.719 --> 00:36:16.920
<v Speaker 6>we had a thermal imaging camera that we kept on

707
00:36:17.000 --> 00:36:19.599
<v Speaker 6>our little camp table in the center of camp, and

708
00:36:19.719 --> 00:36:22.639
<v Speaker 6>we put a little draped a little camo over it

709
00:36:22.960 --> 00:36:25.559
<v Speaker 6>and had it as part of sort of a messy table,

710
00:36:25.840 --> 00:36:28.480
<v Speaker 6>and it was pointing right at the brushy area where

711
00:36:28.519 --> 00:36:30.599
<v Speaker 6>the two small tents were behind which we.

712
00:36:30.480 --> 00:36:32.199
<v Speaker 3>Were having nighttime activity.

713
00:36:32.719 --> 00:36:36.239
<v Speaker 6>And one night it picked up this huge heat signature

714
00:36:37.119 --> 00:36:41.320
<v Speaker 6>rising up behind the tents and then going back down.

715
00:36:41.880 --> 00:36:44.280
<v Speaker 6>And the next night we tried to replicate it with

716
00:36:44.320 --> 00:36:46.519
<v Speaker 6>their own body heat and we were a pale imitation.

717
00:36:47.039 --> 00:36:49.960
<v Speaker 6>So this was behind Mike's tent, which later had that

718
00:36:50.039 --> 00:36:56.000
<v Speaker 6>activity with the thing feeling him up, and that we

719
00:36:56.079 --> 00:37:01.079
<v Speaker 6>got serendipitously as the one image. I mean, it was impressive,

720
00:37:01.159 --> 00:37:04.360
<v Speaker 6>the about of heat off of that big thing. We

721
00:37:04.360 --> 00:37:07.719
<v Speaker 6>couldn't see a clearcut, totally clear cut shape, in part

722
00:37:07.760 --> 00:37:10.400
<v Speaker 6>because it was behind branches and the tents, but it

723
00:37:10.480 --> 00:37:11.719
<v Speaker 6>was really shown through.

724
00:37:12.039 --> 00:37:13.079
<v Speaker 3>It was pretty impressive.

725
00:37:13.519 --> 00:37:16.039
<v Speaker 4>How made you think it was well?

726
00:37:16.360 --> 00:37:18.760
<v Speaker 3>Based on the tracks were The tracks we were finding

727
00:37:18.800 --> 00:37:21.679
<v Speaker 3>were about i'd say ten inches, So we're pretty more

728
00:37:21.719 --> 00:37:24.960
<v Speaker 3>in a large juvenile size, not an adult. And this

729
00:37:25.119 --> 00:37:27.519
<v Speaker 3>was consistent with what he had had with when Jeff

730
00:37:27.519 --> 00:37:30.159
<v Speaker 3>Beldern was with them. We're pretty sure they were getting

731
00:37:30.239 --> 00:37:33.920
<v Speaker 3>juveniles visiting the camp as opposed to full size adults,

732
00:37:35.039 --> 00:37:38.559
<v Speaker 3>and so I think that would be somewhat consistent with

733
00:37:38.880 --> 00:37:42.360
<v Speaker 3>a younger, more curious individual. Yeah.

734
00:37:42.400 --> 00:37:44.559
<v Speaker 6>One of the things that I thought was pretty neat too,

735
00:37:44.760 --> 00:37:46.840
<v Speaker 6>is I was a co author with him on two

736
00:37:46.960 --> 00:37:50.480
<v Speaker 6>presentations in two thousand and four at the fifty seventh

737
00:37:50.519 --> 00:37:54.239
<v Speaker 6>Annual Meeting of the Northwest Anthropological Conference in Dean, Oregon.

738
00:37:55.199 --> 00:37:57.360
<v Speaker 6>I actually had the title in front of me. He

739
00:37:57.440 --> 00:38:02.039
<v Speaker 6>presented along with me as part of Summering those years

740
00:38:02.039 --> 00:38:05.800
<v Speaker 6>in the Sisky Wilderness, New field evidence in physical finds

741
00:38:05.840 --> 00:38:09.679
<v Speaker 6>supporting the presence of an unverified primate species in the

742
00:38:09.719 --> 00:38:13.360
<v Speaker 6>Pacific Northwest, and we were actually on the program, which

743
00:38:13.480 --> 00:38:16.199
<v Speaker 6>was pretty hard to get on these scientific programs.

744
00:38:16.840 --> 00:38:20.000
<v Speaker 4>I got to see that well, and as part.

745
00:38:19.800 --> 00:38:23.320
<v Speaker 6>Of the abstracts that were published did not have I

746
00:38:23.360 --> 00:38:26.159
<v Speaker 6>don't think he ever sent me the complete flight show.

747
00:38:26.239 --> 00:38:28.320
<v Speaker 6>I had to go back and see. I've got a

748
00:38:28.320 --> 00:38:30.559
<v Speaker 6>whole welter. Part of what I've got to dig through

749
00:38:30.599 --> 00:38:32.360
<v Speaker 6>in retirement is to try to get a lot of

750
00:38:32.360 --> 00:38:35.800
<v Speaker 6>my old files and computer and everything else kind of

751
00:38:35.840 --> 00:38:37.519
<v Speaker 6>up to date, because I kind of lost track of things,

752
00:38:37.599 --> 00:38:40.440
<v Speaker 6>and I have a lot of Greenwell related material, some

753
00:38:40.480 --> 00:38:41.480
<v Speaker 6>of which I'm sending.

754
00:38:41.519 --> 00:38:43.559
<v Speaker 3>The Cliff for the museum.

755
00:38:44.400 --> 00:38:46.719
<v Speaker 6>Had to help me with archiving, and so over time

756
00:38:47.000 --> 00:38:49.239
<v Speaker 6>I hope maybe I can find that again. The other

757
00:38:49.320 --> 00:38:53.880
<v Speaker 6>presentation is actually even more amazing by Richard and myself.

758
00:38:53.920 --> 00:38:55.840
<v Speaker 6>In two thousand and four was at the eighty fourth

759
00:38:55.920 --> 00:38:59.119
<v Speaker 6>Annual meeting of the American Society of Amalogus. We were

760
00:38:59.159 --> 00:39:01.360
<v Speaker 6>really lucky because it happened to be held at Humble

761
00:39:01.480 --> 00:39:07.599
<v Speaker 6>State and we presented there the same basic program to

762
00:39:07.679 --> 00:39:11.079
<v Speaker 6>the mammalogists there, and just to get on the docket,

763
00:39:11.119 --> 00:39:12.559
<v Speaker 6>you know, just to be able to get a talk.

764
00:39:12.639 --> 00:39:13.920
<v Speaker 3>It was packed, Richard Dave.

765
00:39:14.000 --> 00:39:18.559
<v Speaker 6>The talk was pretty hard to do because professional mammalogists,

766
00:39:19.360 --> 00:39:22.400
<v Speaker 6>at least publicly, are very sceptical. But what we learned

767
00:39:22.480 --> 00:39:25.360
<v Speaker 6>was that privately many of them are not, which was

768
00:39:25.679 --> 00:39:26.920
<v Speaker 6>a very interesting.

769
00:39:26.599 --> 00:39:28.920
<v Speaker 3>Kind of an indictment academia when you think about it.

770
00:39:29.199 --> 00:39:31.880
<v Speaker 6>But we had a lot of people tell us privately

771
00:39:32.239 --> 00:39:36.159
<v Speaker 6>afterwards their own experiences in the light, although publicly they

772
00:39:36.159 --> 00:39:38.239
<v Speaker 6>would never own up to them. So the fact that

773
00:39:38.280 --> 00:39:41.199
<v Speaker 6>he was able to present some of the results of

774
00:39:41.320 --> 00:39:43.519
<v Speaker 6>our of those years of work, some of the years

775
00:39:43.639 --> 00:39:47.400
<v Speaker 6>didn't involve me, at both that anthropological conference and at

776
00:39:47.440 --> 00:39:49.760
<v Speaker 6>the American Society of Mynology was.

777
00:39:49.719 --> 00:39:50.760
<v Speaker 3>Pretty pretty unique.

778
00:39:50.760 --> 00:39:52.800
<v Speaker 6>I mean, those were pretty bitch marks to have those

779
00:39:52.880 --> 00:39:55.199
<v Speaker 6>kind of presentations at those kinds of societies.

780
00:39:55.920 --> 00:39:57.960
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, I think didn't dig steck at you guys on

781
00:39:57.960 --> 00:39:59.639
<v Speaker 5>the here's the professor at Humble.

782
00:39:59.679 --> 00:40:01.559
<v Speaker 4>I think you guys on the bill there didn't.

783
00:40:01.320 --> 00:40:06.239
<v Speaker 3>He wasn't him. Oh gosh, I've forgotten the name now.

784
00:40:06.719 --> 00:40:09.119
<v Speaker 3>Brian Arbagast I believe was his name.

785
00:40:09.159 --> 00:40:12.199
<v Speaker 6>He's no longer there, but he was sympathetic enough that

786
00:40:12.280 --> 00:40:14.119
<v Speaker 6>he thought, okay, well, let's just see what you have

787
00:40:14.199 --> 00:40:17.159
<v Speaker 6>to show. I have to tell and got us on

788
00:40:17.199 --> 00:40:18.239
<v Speaker 6>the program.

789
00:40:18.480 --> 00:40:19.960
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, I went to Humboldt State.

790
00:40:20.559 --> 00:40:22.280
<v Speaker 3>Oh boys, that a beautiful campus.

791
00:40:23.079 --> 00:40:24.960
<v Speaker 4>It's the prettiest one in the country probably.

792
00:40:25.480 --> 00:40:28.280
<v Speaker 3>I think you're right about that. I was just really impressed.

793
00:40:28.760 --> 00:40:30.559
<v Speaker 4>And what year was that there was in the nineties, right,

794
00:40:30.719 --> 00:40:32.480
<v Speaker 4>two thousand and four? Two thousand.

795
00:40:32.760 --> 00:40:36.360
<v Speaker 2>Okay, So now you're you're retired, and you're gonna be

796
00:40:36.639 --> 00:40:38.880
<v Speaker 2>hopefully spending a little bit more time doing some Bigfoot

797
00:40:38.960 --> 00:40:42.400
<v Speaker 2>field research and you're a member of the newac the

798
00:40:42.440 --> 00:40:46.000
<v Speaker 2>North American wood A Conservancy. All that's correct, I hope.

799
00:40:45.960 --> 00:40:48.920
<v Speaker 3>Yes, that's correct. I am retired, I partially.

800
00:40:48.920 --> 00:40:51.880
<v Speaker 6>I've developed some health problems that have kind of plagued

801
00:40:51.960 --> 00:40:53.960
<v Speaker 6>me recently, and I'm trying to get some control of

802
00:40:54.039 --> 00:40:56.440
<v Speaker 6>those so I can I can do some local fieldwork,

803
00:40:56.440 --> 00:40:58.639
<v Speaker 6>but I can't write at the moment do any a

804
00:40:58.679 --> 00:41:00.800
<v Speaker 6>little more distant field work. But I'm hoping to get

805
00:41:00.880 --> 00:41:03.239
<v Speaker 6>that solved so that I can. Plus, also, with all

806
00:41:03.239 --> 00:41:07.599
<v Speaker 6>this COVID crap, you know, everybody's really been hampered by that.

807
00:41:07.760 --> 00:41:11.000
<v Speaker 6>But I have been trying to through some other beings.

808
00:41:11.039 --> 00:41:14.000
<v Speaker 3>I did advise the society, and in fact, I would

809
00:41:14.039 --> 00:41:17.000
<v Speaker 3>advise anyone if you want to get into the acoustical arena.

810
00:41:17.639 --> 00:41:20.960
<v Speaker 6>It's a little pricey. The song Meter four from Wildlife

811
00:41:21.000 --> 00:41:24.559
<v Speaker 6>Acoustics eight hundred some dollars. But these devices, you just

812
00:41:24.599 --> 00:41:26.599
<v Speaker 6>set them up and they record twenty four to seven

813
00:41:27.000 --> 00:41:28.960
<v Speaker 6>for depending on what kind of batters you use, a

814
00:41:29.000 --> 00:41:32.280
<v Speaker 6>month or even three months, and you've suddenly got a

815
00:41:32.280 --> 00:41:37.719
<v Speaker 6>welter of recordings that can potentially have vocalizations documenting what

816
00:41:37.760 --> 00:41:41.239
<v Speaker 6>you've heard or even if you aren't there, documenting what

817
00:41:41.400 --> 00:41:45.039
<v Speaker 6>was being stayed happening at the time. And so I

818
00:41:45.119 --> 00:41:48.360
<v Speaker 6>encouraged the organization to invest in two of those, and

819
00:41:48.360 --> 00:41:51.079
<v Speaker 6>they've been ploying those of their camps ever set and

820
00:41:51.079 --> 00:41:54.719
<v Speaker 6>we've been getting a lot of meat recordings of vocalizations

821
00:41:54.760 --> 00:41:58.599
<v Speaker 6>through that method. Again and probably coming from my ornithological training,

822
00:41:58.599 --> 00:42:01.039
<v Speaker 6>but they're using ARU. This is what they called an

823
00:42:01.079 --> 00:42:03.960
<v Speaker 6>autonomous reporting unit. There are other kind of units out there,

824
00:42:04.000 --> 00:42:06.400
<v Speaker 6>but this seems to be the kind of the easiest

825
00:42:06.400 --> 00:42:09.360
<v Speaker 6>to program and to a high, very high quality. They're

826
00:42:09.440 --> 00:42:12.760
<v Speaker 6>used in field research all the time, including in primatological

827
00:42:12.800 --> 00:42:15.440
<v Speaker 6>research in the tropics. They're used quite a bit in

828
00:42:15.679 --> 00:42:19.400
<v Speaker 6>primatological research they're actually even able to through if they

829
00:42:19.440 --> 00:42:22.800
<v Speaker 6>get enough vocal material, they can actually start picking out

830
00:42:22.840 --> 00:42:26.440
<v Speaker 6>individuals within these groups of monkeys that they're studying down there.

831
00:42:26.519 --> 00:42:29.280
<v Speaker 6>So then there's a lot of versatility in terms of

832
00:42:29.320 --> 00:42:32.480
<v Speaker 6>what we can learn from the vocalizations.

833
00:42:32.519 --> 00:42:35.679
<v Speaker 3>And again coming from an ordiological background, I'm.

834
00:42:35.559 --> 00:42:39.400
<v Speaker 6>Very vocalizations are so key in a lot of avian studies,

835
00:42:39.880 --> 00:42:42.599
<v Speaker 6>less so in terms of mammalogy, except for bats, where

836
00:42:42.599 --> 00:42:43.400
<v Speaker 6>they're very key.

837
00:42:44.480 --> 00:42:45.400
<v Speaker 3>But these are being.

838
00:42:45.280 --> 00:42:48.679
<v Speaker 6>Used more and more in mammalological studies, typically primate studies

839
00:42:48.920 --> 00:42:50.760
<v Speaker 6>in the tropics. So I think we ought to be

840
00:42:50.840 --> 00:42:53.000
<v Speaker 6>using this more in our field work if you can

841
00:42:53.079 --> 00:42:53.599
<v Speaker 6>afford them.

842
00:42:53.840 --> 00:42:55.519
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's one of the interesting things that came up

843
00:42:55.559 --> 00:42:58.039
<v Speaker 2>in a previous podcasts that we did with a woman

844
00:42:58.119 --> 00:43:01.800
<v Speaker 2>named b Mills who is doing a recording project out

845
00:43:01.800 --> 00:43:05.239
<v Speaker 2>in southeast Ohio and you know, being a cast guy,

846
00:43:05.320 --> 00:43:08.320
<v Speaker 2>you know my things kind of footprint cast. We're identifying

847
00:43:08.360 --> 00:43:11.039
<v Speaker 2>the same individual sasquatches from the data set. You know,

848
00:43:11.079 --> 00:43:13.400
<v Speaker 2>they leave the same they leave their tracks in the

849
00:43:13.440 --> 00:43:17.679
<v Speaker 2>same area over time, and so B is now starting

850
00:43:17.719 --> 00:43:21.800
<v Speaker 2>to think that she can recognize the sounds of different sasquatches.

851
00:43:22.239 --> 00:43:25.000
<v Speaker 2>So she's tracking individuals by their sounds now, which it

852
00:43:25.039 --> 00:43:27.880
<v Speaker 2>sounds like exactly what you just mentioned here, And there's

853
00:43:27.920 --> 00:43:30.199
<v Speaker 2>no reason you can't do that, especially if their voices

854
00:43:30.239 --> 00:43:33.199
<v Speaker 2>are so are are different than one another, just like

855
00:43:33.280 --> 00:43:35.400
<v Speaker 2>you know, you can hear that. I am not Bobo

856
00:43:35.519 --> 00:43:37.639
<v Speaker 2>speaking on this podcast, even though you can't see me

857
00:43:37.760 --> 00:43:40.360
<v Speaker 2>right now. And there's no reason I think that Sasquatches

858
00:43:40.360 --> 00:43:43.719
<v Speaker 2>wouldn't have different sounds and timbres to their voices as

859
00:43:43.760 --> 00:43:44.719
<v Speaker 2>well to be able to do.

860
00:43:44.679 --> 00:43:48.159
<v Speaker 3>This exactly, and age and sex differences as well.

861
00:43:48.480 --> 00:43:51.039
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, she actually mentioned she's been hearing what she's

862
00:43:51.079 --> 00:43:54.840
<v Speaker 2>interpreting as one maturing over four or five years. Yeah,

863
00:43:55.159 --> 00:43:58.079
<v Speaker 2>even to the point where she kind of speculates I

864
00:43:58.119 --> 00:44:00.199
<v Speaker 2>might have heard its voice crack you that.

865
00:44:02.079 --> 00:44:02.480
<v Speaker 3>I don't know.

866
00:44:02.960 --> 00:44:05.519
<v Speaker 6>I don't know that much about puberty and sasquashes, But

867
00:44:05.679 --> 00:44:08.079
<v Speaker 6>that's an interesting cuctivation no.

868
00:44:08.159 --> 00:44:12.079
<v Speaker 2>One does know, and what an interesting at least hypothesis.

869
00:44:12.119 --> 00:44:13.519
<v Speaker 2>And it's up to her and kind of build the

870
00:44:13.559 --> 00:44:15.960
<v Speaker 2>case for it. But how interesting is that? I think

871
00:44:15.960 --> 00:44:16.679
<v Speaker 2>that's pretty cool.

872
00:44:17.000 --> 00:44:19.880
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, I'd love to know if there's regional variation in

873
00:44:20.559 --> 00:44:22.199
<v Speaker 6>sasquatch vocalizations too.

874
00:44:22.320 --> 00:44:24.800
<v Speaker 3>I mean there's a lot of regional variation in birds

875
00:44:25.199 --> 00:44:25.599
<v Speaker 3>where we.

876
00:44:25.559 --> 00:44:29.760
<v Speaker 6>Can tell different subspecies part even within the same species

877
00:44:29.800 --> 00:44:33.719
<v Speaker 6>biological species, and you can find these kind of regional variants.

878
00:44:34.119 --> 00:44:37.719
<v Speaker 6>And also we find birds if they often will adjust

879
00:44:37.760 --> 00:44:43.639
<v Speaker 6>their calling to propagate within the type of vegetational surroundings

880
00:44:43.639 --> 00:44:46.159
<v Speaker 6>that they're found, so that birds in the canopy have

881
00:44:46.280 --> 00:44:48.000
<v Speaker 6>a different pitch and type.

882
00:44:47.800 --> 00:44:50.519
<v Speaker 3>Of call than birds in the forest floor. And I'm

883
00:44:50.559 --> 00:44:53.920
<v Speaker 3>sure there would be variation between the Pacific Northwest and

884
00:44:53.920 --> 00:44:57.400
<v Speaker 3>the Everglades, so so that would be interesting too. I mean,

885
00:44:57.440 --> 00:45:00.440
<v Speaker 3>there's so many Again, using birds as kind of a model,

886
00:45:00.480 --> 00:45:02.920
<v Speaker 3>there's so many things that we could potentially learn if

887
00:45:02.920 --> 00:45:06.960
<v Speaker 3>we had a good library of vocalizations recorded from different

888
00:45:07.000 --> 00:45:10.119
<v Speaker 3>areas different times of the year. I'd also like to

889
00:45:10.119 --> 00:45:12.599
<v Speaker 3>know just seasonally, if there's changes, I mean, you think

890
00:45:12.639 --> 00:45:15.119
<v Speaker 3>during mating season. I don't know if their mating season

891
00:45:15.519 --> 00:45:18.199
<v Speaker 3>is year round or if they have a particular peak time.

892
00:45:18.960 --> 00:45:20.760
<v Speaker 3>And then just in terms.

893
00:45:20.440 --> 00:45:24.920
<v Speaker 6>Of just general moving about, when are they vocalizing when

894
00:45:24.960 --> 00:45:27.840
<v Speaker 6>we aren't there. I'm actually kind of more equally interested

895
00:45:27.880 --> 00:45:30.880
<v Speaker 6>in vocalizations that may be occurring in the area when

896
00:45:30.880 --> 00:45:32.960
<v Speaker 6>no one is there and when no humans are there

897
00:45:33.039 --> 00:45:35.639
<v Speaker 6>versus when humans are there. So I mean there's a

898
00:45:35.639 --> 00:45:38.400
<v Speaker 6>whole welter of information one can get. And the nice

899
00:45:38.400 --> 00:45:41.000
<v Speaker 6>thing with these SD cards is you can store them

900
00:45:41.280 --> 00:45:47.800
<v Speaker 6>forever and analyze them over time using different software analysis packages.

901
00:45:47.880 --> 00:45:53.159
<v Speaker 6>So it's a very, very again underutilized technique that I'd

902
00:45:53.199 --> 00:45:55.679
<v Speaker 6>love to see where researchers are can afford it try

903
00:45:55.760 --> 00:45:56.239
<v Speaker 6>to use.

904
00:45:56.880 --> 00:46:01.039
<v Speaker 2>Now, most researchers, I know, they use old audio recorders

905
00:46:01.440 --> 00:46:03.920
<v Speaker 2>generally said on MP three setting instead a wave, so

906
00:46:04.000 --> 00:46:06.440
<v Speaker 2>it takes they can record for longer periods of time,

907
00:46:07.440 --> 00:46:09.840
<v Speaker 2>and these cost one hundred four hundred bucks or something

908
00:46:09.880 --> 00:46:14.039
<v Speaker 2>like that. Right now, by and large, that would that

909
00:46:14.159 --> 00:46:19.159
<v Speaker 2>information be valuable to That's good enough at this point

910
00:46:19.239 --> 00:46:20.679
<v Speaker 2>for the average Joe researcher.

911
00:46:20.920 --> 00:46:24.239
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, it's kind of like what you deal with burners

912
00:46:24.280 --> 00:46:26.679
<v Speaker 6>who are getting into burning. You know, you have binoculars

913
00:46:26.679 --> 00:46:29.760
<v Speaker 6>that span the spectrum from the you know, a decent

914
00:46:29.800 --> 00:46:32.199
<v Speaker 6>pair of two hundred dollars to kind of have this

915
00:46:32.920 --> 00:46:35.400
<v Speaker 6>price of a car twenty five hundred dollars or so.

916
00:46:35.719 --> 00:46:37.599
<v Speaker 6>I mean, you get what you pay for in terms

917
00:46:37.639 --> 00:46:42.840
<v Speaker 6>of quality, but you still can do good science with these. Again,

918
00:46:42.880 --> 00:46:45.960
<v Speaker 6>it depends on your budget obviously, but I would encourage

919
00:46:46.000 --> 00:46:48.760
<v Speaker 6>recording at some level. The main thing that we were

920
00:46:48.840 --> 00:46:51.320
<v Speaker 6>concerned that we got so frustrated with in the Cisco

921
00:46:51.440 --> 00:46:55.239
<v Speaker 6>Wilderness was even when we you know, well in two

922
00:46:55.280 --> 00:46:57.119
<v Speaker 6>thousand and five, we did a better job of being

923
00:46:57.159 --> 00:47:01.079
<v Speaker 6>able to continuously record, although at that time the technology

924
00:47:01.119 --> 00:47:03.840
<v Speaker 6>we could afford only allowed us to go twelve hour periods,

925
00:47:03.880 --> 00:47:06.840
<v Speaker 6>so we had to make sure that we were careful

926
00:47:06.920 --> 00:47:09.519
<v Speaker 6>and put it as we had two recorders, and so

927
00:47:09.639 --> 00:47:12.360
<v Speaker 6>once one gave out, we put the ed X wind rolling,

928
00:47:12.840 --> 00:47:15.079
<v Speaker 6>the other one time to recharge or whatever, put the

929
00:47:15.079 --> 00:47:18.400
<v Speaker 6>batteries in, all that kind of good stuff, and so

930
00:47:18.800 --> 00:47:20.960
<v Speaker 6>you know, I mean, my philosophy is anything is better

931
00:47:21.000 --> 00:47:24.159
<v Speaker 6>than nothing, but you do get what you pay for.

932
00:47:24.440 --> 00:47:27.039
<v Speaker 3>But I would say, yeah, I mean I would. I

933
00:47:27.119 --> 00:47:28.239
<v Speaker 3>mentioned in hearing Anything.

934
00:47:28.280 --> 00:47:31.039
<v Speaker 6>I mean, some of the earlier recordings that NAWAC did,

935
00:47:31.280 --> 00:47:32.840
<v Speaker 6>and I'm not even sure what kind of recorders they

936
00:47:32.920 --> 00:47:35.199
<v Speaker 6>used there at the time. It's probably some of these

937
00:47:35.239 --> 00:47:40.159
<v Speaker 6>smaller digital recorders. They produced some pretty good sounds that

938
00:47:40.199 --> 00:47:42.679
<v Speaker 6>we were able to get nice spectrograms off. And we've

939
00:47:42.679 --> 00:47:46.199
<v Speaker 6>been trying to catalog, you know, looking at frequencies and

940
00:47:46.239 --> 00:47:46.840
<v Speaker 6>things like that.

941
00:47:46.920 --> 00:47:48.519
<v Speaker 3>The different kind of vocalizations.

942
00:47:49.079 --> 00:47:52.159
<v Speaker 6>What's happened in the bird world is as people study

943
00:47:52.559 --> 00:47:57.519
<v Speaker 6>bird species which have a diversity of multification, diversity of vocalizations,

944
00:47:57.679 --> 00:47:59.760
<v Speaker 6>particularly if you're a song bird of passerine or something

945
00:47:59.800 --> 00:48:04.000
<v Speaker 6>like that, is that make you try to do a

946
00:48:04.039 --> 00:48:06.480
<v Speaker 6>catalog of all the different vocalizations and then you try

947
00:48:06.519 --> 00:48:10.119
<v Speaker 6>to contextualize them behaviorally as to what they're communicating.

948
00:48:11.039 --> 00:48:12.920
<v Speaker 3>And so I would love to see us get a

949
00:48:12.920 --> 00:48:13.519
<v Speaker 3>library of.

950
00:48:13.559 --> 00:48:19.079
<v Speaker 6>Sounds of sasquatch sounds that can then be contextualized to

951
00:48:19.159 --> 00:48:21.519
<v Speaker 6>try to figure out the extent that we can what

952
00:48:21.679 --> 00:48:23.440
<v Speaker 6>behaviorally is being communicated.

953
00:48:24.039 --> 00:48:27.760
<v Speaker 5>So, Angelo, what are the best audio recordings you've heard?

954
00:48:28.639 --> 00:48:31.800
<v Speaker 5>I'm sure you've heard lots of samples over the years.

955
00:48:31.800 --> 00:48:33.400
<v Speaker 5>What impresses you the most?

956
00:48:33.880 --> 00:48:38.079
<v Speaker 6>I must well, anything that obviously is not made by

957
00:48:38.199 --> 00:48:41.920
<v Speaker 6>native mammal or native bird impresses me the most.

958
00:48:42.000 --> 00:48:44.840
<v Speaker 3>And I can be very to be honest, I was

959
00:48:45.079 --> 00:48:45.639
<v Speaker 3>in some.

960
00:48:45.480 --> 00:48:49.239
<v Speaker 6>Ways more impressed by the whistling that we heard than

961
00:48:49.280 --> 00:48:53.239
<v Speaker 6>the Ohio Howe rendition that we heard, in part because

962
00:48:54.199 --> 00:48:57.880
<v Speaker 6>the ability to whistle takes a very different lorangeal structure.

963
00:48:58.760 --> 00:49:02.639
<v Speaker 6>Only humans among the great apes can whistle in any

964
00:49:02.679 --> 00:49:06.360
<v Speaker 6>significant way, and I think there may be an orangutan

965
00:49:06.639 --> 00:49:08.639
<v Speaker 6>or something in a zoo that was trained to whistle.

966
00:49:08.679 --> 00:49:13.920
<v Speaker 6>But apparently whistling takes a orthology that's really unusual and

967
00:49:14.000 --> 00:49:16.840
<v Speaker 6>not represented within other great.

968
00:49:16.639 --> 00:49:18.199
<v Speaker 3>Apes outside of humans.

969
00:49:18.639 --> 00:49:22.400
<v Speaker 6>And so that actually impressed me a lot, just because

970
00:49:22.440 --> 00:49:27.199
<v Speaker 6>I knew that vocally. Mechanically, that's harder to do with

971
00:49:27.280 --> 00:49:29.599
<v Speaker 6>the vocal apparatus than the ohio helm.

972
00:49:29.920 --> 00:49:32.559
<v Speaker 2>Oh, you know that's interesting. Have I actually have a

973
00:49:33.679 --> 00:49:37.639
<v Speaker 2>whistle recording that Bobo and I got. We thought we

974
00:49:37.679 --> 00:49:40.360
<v Speaker 2>had a sasquatch around. It was making noises like they

975
00:49:40.400 --> 00:49:43.000
<v Speaker 2>tend to, and we Boba and I were doing night

976
00:49:43.000 --> 00:49:45.599
<v Speaker 2>walks from one camp to another, and we left one

977
00:49:45.639 --> 00:49:49.320
<v Speaker 2>camp and just a short while after fifteen to twenty minutes,

978
00:49:49.400 --> 00:49:51.679
<v Speaker 2>or I'd have to check my notes. After we left,

979
00:49:52.039 --> 00:49:56.679
<v Speaker 2>something came by that camp and did a followed by

980
00:49:56.719 --> 00:50:00.519
<v Speaker 2>a like a big tree knock right out afterwards, And

981
00:50:00.559 --> 00:50:03.119
<v Speaker 2>I got it on recorder that I found later, So

982
00:50:03.360 --> 00:50:05.440
<v Speaker 2>I'll send that to you. I'll give you an email

983
00:50:05.480 --> 00:50:06.760
<v Speaker 2>of that and you can listen to it and tell

984
00:50:06.760 --> 00:50:08.079
<v Speaker 2>me if it's a bird that I don't know about,

985
00:50:08.079 --> 00:50:09.639
<v Speaker 2>because I don't know about all of suff no.

986
00:50:09.760 --> 00:50:11.519
<v Speaker 3>I love. I'd love to hear that for sure.

987
00:50:12.159 --> 00:50:12.360
<v Speaker 4>Yeah.

988
00:50:12.400 --> 00:50:14.559
<v Speaker 2>In fact, I hope you don't mind. You're probably gonna

989
00:50:14.559 --> 00:50:17.360
<v Speaker 2>get a fair number of vocalizations and recordings over the

990
00:50:17.360 --> 00:50:19.440
<v Speaker 2>next year or two as I get more and more.

991
00:50:21.239 --> 00:50:24.639
<v Speaker 2>Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bobo.

992
00:50:24.840 --> 00:50:26.639
<v Speaker 2>We'll be right back after these messages.

993
00:50:33.039 --> 00:50:36.880
<v Speaker 5>Last year in Massachusetts, we heard an incredible whistling display

994
00:50:36.920 --> 00:50:38.719
<v Speaker 5>put on by two of them. And they were small ones.

995
00:50:38.760 --> 00:50:41.440
<v Speaker 5>They were only like human size because I actually saw

996
00:50:41.480 --> 00:50:42.920
<v Speaker 5>it through my thorn. I saw it through my throne,

997
00:50:42.920 --> 00:50:45.280
<v Speaker 5>and I thought there were some other guys are with us.

998
00:50:45.280 --> 00:50:48.679
<v Speaker 5>This was just in like central Massachusetts, and this thing

999
00:50:48.760 --> 00:50:54.360
<v Speaker 5>started whistling these craziest like notes and the up and

1000
00:50:54.440 --> 00:50:57.159
<v Speaker 5>down and so intricate, but it didn't repeat anything. It

1001
00:50:57.199 --> 00:51:00.119
<v Speaker 5>wasn't like a song or it was just random. And

1002
00:51:00.119 --> 00:51:02.360
<v Speaker 5>they were going back and forth, just putting on like

1003
00:51:02.360 --> 00:51:04.559
<v Speaker 5>like if you're the best whistler in the world, trying

1004
00:51:04.599 --> 00:51:06.119
<v Speaker 5>to show off, is what it was like.

1005
00:51:06.800 --> 00:51:08.679
<v Speaker 4>And I thought, man, these guys are I can't believe

1006
00:51:08.679 --> 00:51:09.840
<v Speaker 4>these guys. These guys are incredible.

1007
00:51:09.840 --> 00:51:11.920
<v Speaker 5>And then they came walking down five minutes later and

1008
00:51:11.960 --> 00:51:14.199
<v Speaker 5>those things took off down into a swamp.

1009
00:51:14.559 --> 00:51:15.800
<v Speaker 3>That's fascinating. Yeah.

1010
00:51:15.840 --> 00:51:18.599
<v Speaker 6>Again, the anatomy that it takes to do whistling, particularly

1011
00:51:18.639 --> 00:51:22.360
<v Speaker 6>complex whistling, is not something that you find in other

1012
00:51:22.440 --> 00:51:23.519
<v Speaker 6>species of great apes.

1013
00:51:23.599 --> 00:51:25.840
<v Speaker 4>So maybe maybe just a juvent.

1014
00:51:25.840 --> 00:51:28.360
<v Speaker 5>Maybe the adolescents are maybe they get so big they

1015
00:51:28.360 --> 00:51:30.119
<v Speaker 5>can't do it as well, or they can, they're more

1016
00:51:30.280 --> 00:51:31.320
<v Speaker 5>limited when they get there. I don't know.

1017
00:51:31.360 --> 00:51:34.000
<v Speaker 3>There could be I know, I'll bet they can still

1018
00:51:34.000 --> 00:51:37.960
<v Speaker 3>whistle if they've got the vocal apparatus that as a juvenile,

1019
00:51:38.000 --> 00:51:40.400
<v Speaker 3>it's probably still there as an adult as well. I mean,

1020
00:51:40.440 --> 00:51:43.039
<v Speaker 3>it may be that Potextually, the jubiles are more likely.

1021
00:51:43.079 --> 00:51:46.920
<v Speaker 3>I have no idea, but I wouldn't see a reason

1022
00:51:46.920 --> 00:51:48.599
<v Speaker 3>why the adults couldn't do it as well.

1023
00:51:49.360 --> 00:51:51.599
<v Speaker 5>The big one, well, I know for sure a big

1024
00:51:51.599 --> 00:51:53.920
<v Speaker 5>one did it because I saw it. But it sounds

1025
00:51:53.920 --> 00:51:55.599
<v Speaker 5>like you know when people put like their forefinger and

1026
00:51:55.639 --> 00:51:56.480
<v Speaker 5>their thumb in their.

1027
00:51:56.320 --> 00:52:00.400
<v Speaker 4>Mouth and do that one super loud. Yes, when humans

1028
00:52:00.440 --> 00:52:02.039
<v Speaker 4>do that. I've heard them do that one.

1029
00:52:02.400 --> 00:52:05.400
<v Speaker 3>Wow. That's fascinating. Yeah. The full repertoire that I hear

1030
00:52:05.440 --> 00:52:07.039
<v Speaker 3>about more and more is just amazing.

1031
00:52:07.599 --> 00:52:09.320
<v Speaker 2>Well, and it makes sense, you know, I think in

1032
00:52:09.320 --> 00:52:12.719
<v Speaker 2>a lot of ways that that that they could replicate

1033
00:52:12.719 --> 00:52:14.599
<v Speaker 2>a lot of the sounds that we do just because

1034
00:52:14.800 --> 00:52:16.920
<v Speaker 2>we're built the same in a lot of ways. We

1035
00:52:16.920 --> 00:52:20.000
<v Speaker 2>don't know about the insides about you know, the functions

1036
00:52:20.000 --> 00:52:22.280
<v Speaker 2>of you know, trachea or whatever else they got going

1037
00:52:22.320 --> 00:52:24.360
<v Speaker 2>on in their in their tubes there, but they're they

1038
00:52:24.480 --> 00:52:25.840
<v Speaker 2>kind of look like us, and it makes sense that

1039
00:52:25.880 --> 00:52:27.679
<v Speaker 2>they can probably make a lot of sounds like us too.

1040
00:52:28.199 --> 00:52:31.000
<v Speaker 6>Well, I have to disagree with you there, it's hard.

1041
00:52:31.039 --> 00:52:35.280
<v Speaker 6>It's hard to see why that vocal capacity should be there.

1042
00:52:36.519 --> 00:52:38.440
<v Speaker 6>I mean, again, if it's not in any other Great

1043
00:52:38.480 --> 00:52:41.239
<v Speaker 6>Eight species, why did it evolve in this one?

1044
00:52:41.280 --> 00:52:44.320
<v Speaker 3>That's a mystery that's a real miss is involved enough

1045
00:52:45.000 --> 00:52:45.920
<v Speaker 3>it involved in us?

1046
00:52:46.559 --> 00:52:49.039
<v Speaker 6>And now maybe yeah, but I mean to me, it's

1047
00:52:49.119 --> 00:52:52.559
<v Speaker 6>a mystery of why. I mean, you never know if

1048
00:52:52.639 --> 00:52:57.519
<v Speaker 6>the any any characters that undergo evolutionary change, all you'll

1049
00:52:57.559 --> 00:53:00.719
<v Speaker 6>have like the primary adaptive function, but then you can

1050
00:53:00.760 --> 00:53:05.119
<v Speaker 6>have secondary capabilities that just kind of happened to arise

1051
00:53:05.360 --> 00:53:09.559
<v Speaker 6>out of having that particular character evolve in that direction,

1052
00:53:09.760 --> 00:53:13.360
<v Speaker 6>so that it wasn't really being selected for that purpose

1053
00:53:13.960 --> 00:53:17.840
<v Speaker 6>functional purpose, but it's a correlate that is then enabled

1054
00:53:18.800 --> 00:53:23.760
<v Speaker 6>it's what they sometimes called it acaptation. And so it's

1055
00:53:23.880 --> 00:53:29.599
<v Speaker 6>difficult to know if why the vocal apparatus evolved within Sasquatches,

1056
00:53:29.639 --> 00:53:32.079
<v Speaker 6>if that's what's going on to explain the whistling, which

1057
00:53:32.079 --> 00:53:34.480
<v Speaker 6>I'm pretty convinced must be why it would go in

1058
00:53:34.519 --> 00:53:38.360
<v Speaker 6>that direction, I'm not quite sure if the palaeo anthropologists

1059
00:53:38.440 --> 00:53:42.920
<v Speaker 6>understand how that what was the selective forces, the selective

1060
00:53:43.199 --> 00:53:48.159
<v Speaker 6>adaptative advantages of having the vocal apparatus change from the

1061
00:53:48.280 --> 00:53:51.440
<v Speaker 6>regenitor grade eight and humans in the direction that it went,

1062
00:53:51.559 --> 00:53:54.199
<v Speaker 6>you know, as a consequence. And then if so, why

1063
00:53:54.199 --> 00:53:57.000
<v Speaker 6>do we not have full speech within the Sasquatches.

1064
00:53:57.039 --> 00:53:59.800
<v Speaker 3>So I don't know, and that in itself is constant

1065
00:54:00.119 --> 00:54:03.800
<v Speaker 3>controversial as to how much potential faux speech? What is that?

1066
00:54:04.119 --> 00:54:06.519
<v Speaker 3>What is that that's going on with so called faux speech.

1067
00:54:06.559 --> 00:54:07.840
<v Speaker 3>I'd love to know more about that.

1068
00:54:08.400 --> 00:54:12.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I've always taken the you know, the Morehead recordings

1069
00:54:12.360 --> 00:54:14.920
<v Speaker 2>and stuff, the Albery recordings from you know, the Sierras,

1070
00:54:14.920 --> 00:54:19.000
<v Speaker 2>the Sierra sounds that as well as first hand accounts

1071
00:54:19.039 --> 00:54:21.400
<v Speaker 2>of witnesses who had heard those things. I've never heard it.

1072
00:54:21.400 --> 00:54:22.920
<v Speaker 2>I wish I had. Bobo has heard it before, but

1073
00:54:22.960 --> 00:54:25.320
<v Speaker 2>I've never have I've never heard them speak or a

1074
00:54:25.360 --> 00:54:27.639
<v Speaker 2>quote unquote speak back and forth to one another, but

1075
00:54:27.679 --> 00:54:29.760
<v Speaker 2>I've always kind of taken that as an interesting, well,

1076
00:54:29.800 --> 00:54:32.760
<v Speaker 2>certainly an indication that they might be having this faux

1077
00:54:32.800 --> 00:54:36.000
<v Speaker 2>speech or even speech we don't really know, back and

1078
00:54:36.039 --> 00:54:39.320
<v Speaker 2>forth with one another, and that seems to jibell. We'll

1079
00:54:39.320 --> 00:54:42.920
<v Speaker 2>see my model for them as everybody who listens to

1080
00:54:42.960 --> 00:54:46.320
<v Speaker 2>this nose is. I think that they're probably paranthropists and

1081
00:54:46.400 --> 00:54:50.000
<v Speaker 2>not gigantos. I think they're probably paranthropists, some sort of

1082
00:54:50.039 --> 00:54:54.960
<v Speaker 2>robust australopithoscene, and their ability to have some sort of

1083
00:54:55.320 --> 00:54:57.440
<v Speaker 2>speech or proto speech or whatever like that kind of

1084
00:54:57.480 --> 00:55:00.280
<v Speaker 2>falls in line I think with a lot of at

1085
00:55:00.360 --> 00:55:02.400
<v Speaker 2>least what I'm thinking about them at this point.

1086
00:55:03.239 --> 00:55:03.360
<v Speaker 4>Now.

1087
00:55:03.400 --> 00:55:06.079
<v Speaker 2>Mind you, I don't think that they they're rocket scientists

1088
00:55:06.159 --> 00:55:08.719
<v Speaker 2>or anything like that, but I think they're smarter than

1089
00:55:08.760 --> 00:55:12.800
<v Speaker 2>the average you know, chimp being a hominin like, I

1090
00:55:12.880 --> 00:55:15.599
<v Speaker 2>kind of put them in the hominin line. So would

1091
00:55:15.639 --> 00:55:18.880
<v Speaker 2>I be thinking too out out of bounds if I

1092
00:55:18.920 --> 00:55:21.719
<v Speaker 2>think that speech would be somehow or some sort of

1093
00:55:21.719 --> 00:55:26.280
<v Speaker 2>proto speech might be inherent in the hominin lineage.

1094
00:55:26.119 --> 00:55:29.639
<v Speaker 6>Not being a paleoanthropologist fully conversant with the fossil record,

1095
00:55:29.639 --> 00:55:31.679
<v Speaker 6>I couldn't say, but we do see a lot of

1096
00:55:31.719 --> 00:55:36.320
<v Speaker 6>parallel or convergent evolutionary trends within different lineages of mammals,

1097
00:55:36.320 --> 00:55:39.880
<v Speaker 6>and so I wouldn't in and of itself sway me

1098
00:55:40.159 --> 00:55:44.159
<v Speaker 6>towards paranthropists. I still am more of the Giganto Orangatan

1099
00:55:44.280 --> 00:55:47.960
<v Speaker 6>clade as praising these things in part by geographically it

1100
00:55:48.000 --> 00:55:51.480
<v Speaker 6>makes the most sense to be as well as to me,

1101
00:55:52.119 --> 00:55:55.440
<v Speaker 6>when John Bindernaugele put together his book arguing that it

1102
00:55:55.519 --> 00:55:58.239
<v Speaker 6>is North America's great Ape, it just seemed to me

1103
00:55:58.360 --> 00:56:01.559
<v Speaker 6>like the bulk of the characters that he documented that

1104
00:56:01.599 --> 00:56:03.760
<v Speaker 6>we're being shared with other great apes. You may remember

1105
00:56:03.760 --> 00:56:08.119
<v Speaker 6>he did that comparative study looking at the great apes guerrillas, chimps,

1106
00:56:08.119 --> 00:56:11.360
<v Speaker 6>and o Regatan's a brilliant study where he was saying,

1107
00:56:11.360 --> 00:56:14.199
<v Speaker 6>this has analogous to what's going on in this particular

1108
00:56:14.239 --> 00:56:17.719
<v Speaker 6>great ape or that particular grade ape. To me, convinced

1109
00:56:17.760 --> 00:56:20.719
<v Speaker 6>me that the most parsimonious explanation is that it is

1110
00:56:20.880 --> 00:56:23.400
<v Speaker 6>a great ape and not a homin en. I think

1111
00:56:23.440 --> 00:56:26.000
<v Speaker 6>that's a bigger stretch, but I could see where you know,

1112
00:56:26.119 --> 00:56:29.360
<v Speaker 6>You can certainly pick out some characters that might argue

1113
00:56:29.360 --> 00:56:31.119
<v Speaker 6>for a homin en. It's just that I think those

1114
00:56:31.159 --> 00:56:34.400
<v Speaker 6>are outweighed, to my mind, at least by characters that

1115
00:56:34.440 --> 00:56:36.960
<v Speaker 6>look more a great apeish to be. And also we

1116
00:56:37.079 --> 00:56:41.519
<v Speaker 6>know the power of conversion evolution as well as parallel evolution,

1117
00:56:41.639 --> 00:56:43.840
<v Speaker 6>and so it's very hard to know. I mean, this

1118
00:56:43.960 --> 00:56:47.280
<v Speaker 6>is this is why, and this will be the controversial

1119
00:56:47.880 --> 00:56:50.519
<v Speaker 6>request is we've got to get a specimen. Somehow, We've

1120
00:56:50.519 --> 00:56:53.039
<v Speaker 6>got to get a specimen. I'm speaking as a museum

1121
00:56:53.199 --> 00:56:56.880
<v Speaker 6>scientist and speaking as someone who's worked with documenting new

1122
00:56:56.880 --> 00:56:59.440
<v Speaker 6>species of birds, where until we got the specimen, we

1123
00:56:59.440 --> 00:57:02.320
<v Speaker 6>really didn't know what we were dealing with. Speaking on

1124
00:57:02.360 --> 00:57:06.719
<v Speaker 6>the history of total misidentifications of things of two species

1125
00:57:06.760 --> 00:57:10.679
<v Speaker 6>of mammals, even primates, using just photographs or anything else.

1126
00:57:11.239 --> 00:57:14.559
<v Speaker 3>A specimen is if we don't get that, we're never

1127
00:57:14.599 --> 00:57:17.079
<v Speaker 3>going to get this field advanced further than it is

1128
00:57:17.119 --> 00:57:21.400
<v Speaker 3>today in my mind, at least in terms of scientific acceptability.

1129
00:57:21.559 --> 00:57:24.599
<v Speaker 3>But once we have that specimen, and we just need.

1130
00:57:24.480 --> 00:57:29.679
<v Speaker 6>One that's properly secured and curated and analyzed, then all

1131
00:57:29.719 --> 00:57:33.199
<v Speaker 6>of this incredible wealth of material that you and others

1132
00:57:33.199 --> 00:57:37.000
<v Speaker 6>have collected over the years, from casts through hair to

1133
00:57:38.119 --> 00:57:42.480
<v Speaker 6>scat to vocalizations, all of that will then be available

1134
00:57:42.880 --> 00:57:46.800
<v Speaker 6>retrospectively to go back and have a whole bunch of

1135
00:57:46.840 --> 00:57:51.519
<v Speaker 6>academically trained people take and really work out what this

1136
00:57:51.599 --> 00:57:52.760
<v Speaker 6>all really means.

1137
00:57:52.480 --> 00:57:54.800
<v Speaker 3>That the context of what that specimen revealed.

1138
00:57:55.320 --> 00:57:59.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, absolutely, yeah, Unfortunately. I mean I'm not a hunter.

1139
00:57:59.039 --> 00:58:00.360
<v Speaker 2>I'm not going to be the guy to pull trigger,

1140
00:58:00.400 --> 00:58:04.639
<v Speaker 2>as I said one hundred times, but a specimen is necessary.

1141
00:58:05.000 --> 00:58:07.320
<v Speaker 2>So people out there and I get this all the time,

1142
00:58:07.440 --> 00:58:10.719
<v Speaker 2>like there's working really hard to prove the species, Like, no,

1143
00:58:10.800 --> 00:58:14.079
<v Speaker 2>you're not unless you're buying ammunition and you know you're

1144
00:58:14.119 --> 00:58:18.039
<v Speaker 2>you're really not. You're maybe collecting information, but that's not

1145
00:58:18.199 --> 00:58:21.920
<v Speaker 2>trying to prove the species. And people come back, I

1146
00:58:21.920 --> 00:58:24.039
<v Speaker 2>can't wait till these things are proven and say, well, yeah,

1147
00:58:24.119 --> 00:58:25.920
<v Speaker 2>then I mentioned a dead one. They go, oh, I

1148
00:58:25.920 --> 00:58:28.519
<v Speaker 2>don't want that to happen. Well, you can't have you know,

1149
00:58:28.559 --> 00:58:31.480
<v Speaker 2>you can't have it both ways. Unfortunately, not by the

1150
00:58:31.559 --> 00:58:34.159
<v Speaker 2>rules as written today exactly.

1151
00:58:34.519 --> 00:58:36.480
<v Speaker 3>And it's not just the rules that are written, it's

1152
00:58:36.519 --> 00:58:38.840
<v Speaker 3>the reality. If any of you are familiar with the

1153
00:58:38.880 --> 00:58:42.199
<v Speaker 3>history of taxonomy and systematic biology, you know that that

1154
00:58:42.239 --> 00:58:45.000
<v Speaker 3>you've just got to add specimens, a whole body specimen.

1155
00:58:45.039 --> 00:58:47.280
<v Speaker 3>You even DNA is not the end all be all.

1156
00:58:47.840 --> 00:58:49.039
<v Speaker 3>There's so much you can gain.

1157
00:58:49.119 --> 00:58:52.039
<v Speaker 6>If you've ever seen the monograph that was written with

1158
00:58:52.119 --> 00:58:54.320
<v Speaker 6>the first specimen of the giant panda, I mean, it's

1159
00:58:54.320 --> 00:58:58.880
<v Speaker 6>a thick book. It's just amazing what the comparative An

1160
00:58:58.880 --> 00:59:02.159
<v Speaker 6>Adams was able to term it and figure out. And

1161
00:59:02.199 --> 00:59:04.440
<v Speaker 6>as you know, even the giant panda was controversial as

1162
00:59:04.480 --> 00:59:06.320
<v Speaker 6>to where to put it. Is it a bear or

1163
00:59:06.400 --> 00:59:09.599
<v Speaker 6>is it in the prociona the raccoon family, Even that

1164
00:59:09.639 --> 00:59:10.199
<v Speaker 6>took a while.

1165
00:59:10.239 --> 00:59:11.679
<v Speaker 3>Even having the specimen and so.

1166
00:59:12.440 --> 00:59:16.280
<v Speaker 6>Especialmen just gives you so much more information in terms

1167
00:59:16.360 --> 00:59:20.159
<v Speaker 6>of the physical properties of the organism that you would

1168
00:59:20.239 --> 00:59:23.119
<v Speaker 6>never get from DNA. But I will put in a

1169
00:59:23.239 --> 00:59:26.480
<v Speaker 6>caveat here. Don't go out trying to hot one of

1170
00:59:26.480 --> 00:59:28.360
<v Speaker 6>these things. If you have it first thought through.

1171
00:59:28.480 --> 00:59:30.440
<v Speaker 3>Number one, how the heck are you going to get

1172
00:59:30.639 --> 00:59:33.639
<v Speaker 3>the thing out of the woods? Number two? How are

1173
00:59:33.639 --> 00:59:36.280
<v Speaker 3>you going to preserve it properly so that it can

1174
00:59:36.320 --> 00:59:39.719
<v Speaker 3>be scientifically viable? And number three, how are you going

1175
00:59:39.719 --> 00:59:43.039
<v Speaker 3>to contact appropriate members of the scientific community to make

1176
00:59:43.079 --> 00:59:45.199
<v Speaker 3>sure it's handled properly. You don't want to get a

1177
00:59:45.320 --> 00:59:48.079
<v Speaker 3>fly by night person to take your data and just

1178
00:59:48.159 --> 00:59:50.559
<v Speaker 3>ruin the outcome. We've kind of seen that happen in

1179
00:59:50.599 --> 00:59:53.159
<v Speaker 3>some other arenas, I'm afraid. So you want to have it.

1180
00:59:53.280 --> 00:59:57.239
<v Speaker 6>You want to have a planned as museum collectors around

1181
00:59:57.280 --> 01:00:00.000
<v Speaker 6>the world know, we do it under very plan carefully

1182
01:00:00.119 --> 01:00:03.679
<v Speaker 6>and circumstances. So when we collected these pieces of parative through,

1183
01:00:04.400 --> 01:00:07.639
<v Speaker 6>we knew how to make it into a usable scientific specimen.

1184
01:00:07.840 --> 01:00:10.559
<v Speaker 6>We had liquid nitrogen with us, which was the preservative

1185
01:00:10.559 --> 01:00:12.719
<v Speaker 6>of the time, to keep tissue samples.

1186
01:00:13.039 --> 01:00:16.400
<v Speaker 3>We had recordings that we had made of it, photographs,

1187
01:00:16.440 --> 01:00:19.400
<v Speaker 3>I mean, we had everything that we could document and

1188
01:00:19.480 --> 01:00:24.559
<v Speaker 3>permanently document by bringing that material back and compare it

1189
01:00:24.800 --> 01:00:29.719
<v Speaker 3>to material and the museums of other related species in

1190
01:00:29.840 --> 01:00:32.159
<v Speaker 3>order to document it. So you can't just have anybody

1191
01:00:32.199 --> 01:00:34.480
<v Speaker 3>out there just shooting these things. It has to be

1192
01:00:34.559 --> 01:00:37.800
<v Speaker 3>part of a coordinated thought through careful effort.

1193
01:00:38.679 --> 01:00:41.199
<v Speaker 2>I tend to think that the first dead one will

1194
01:00:41.280 --> 01:00:47.079
<v Speaker 2>probably come from a very very frightened hunter who brings

1195
01:00:47.119 --> 01:00:49.320
<v Speaker 2>down a small one because the deer rifle can probably

1196
01:00:49.320 --> 01:00:53.960
<v Speaker 2>handle it or very luckily placed shot. Essentially, if that

1197
01:00:54.039 --> 01:00:57.760
<v Speaker 2>person happens to be listening right now, What would you

1198
01:00:57.800 --> 01:00:58.719
<v Speaker 2>recommend to them?

1199
01:01:00.199 --> 01:01:03.480
<v Speaker 3>Interesting question Number one. I would recommend you might want

1200
01:01:03.480 --> 01:01:06.159
<v Speaker 3>to get out of there right away, because we don't

1201
01:01:06.199 --> 01:01:10.519
<v Speaker 3>know what kind of.

1202
01:01:09.480 --> 01:01:13.760
<v Speaker 6>Reaction might occur from any surrounding adults, if it was a.

1203
01:01:13.760 --> 01:01:16.440
<v Speaker 3>Young or any relatives that might happen to be there.

1204
01:01:16.559 --> 01:01:20.719
<v Speaker 3>I mean, I would be cautious. One of the plans

1205
01:01:20.719 --> 01:01:24.239
<v Speaker 3>should be how can you get it out as quickly

1206
01:01:24.239 --> 01:01:28.239
<v Speaker 3>as possible and also have backup in case there's a

1207
01:01:28.280 --> 01:01:31.599
<v Speaker 3>hostile response, because while in general I don't think of

1208
01:01:31.639 --> 01:01:34.639
<v Speaker 3>these things as very hostile, and have the being out

1209
01:01:34.679 --> 01:01:36.320
<v Speaker 3>around them that.

1210
01:01:36.119 --> 01:01:40.599
<v Speaker 6>Would be different that eliminate a a you know, a

1211
01:01:40.960 --> 01:01:43.880
<v Speaker 6>hostile response that you might want to be careful about.

1212
01:01:44.400 --> 01:01:46.239
<v Speaker 3>We also don't know what they do with their dad.

1213
01:01:46.400 --> 01:01:48.480
<v Speaker 6>So if you did leave the area with the thing

1214
01:01:48.719 --> 01:01:51.079
<v Speaker 6>body there, would it be there when you got back,

1215
01:01:51.199 --> 01:01:51.840
<v Speaker 6>I don't know.

1216
01:01:54.159 --> 01:01:56.119
<v Speaker 3>Yeh likely not, I agree.

1217
01:01:56.000 --> 01:01:59.639
<v Speaker 6>And so I don't know what to say, you know,

1218
01:01:59.760 --> 01:02:02.079
<v Speaker 6>And then of course people are very fearful of the

1219
01:02:02.119 --> 01:02:06.480
<v Speaker 6>legal ramifications. We think it's probably happened before, right, I mean,

1220
01:02:06.519 --> 01:02:11.280
<v Speaker 6>there's certainly some potentially credible tales of people having shot

1221
01:02:11.320 --> 01:02:16.239
<v Speaker 6>one through fear or fear of what they were seeing, and.

1222
01:02:16.159 --> 01:02:19.079
<v Speaker 3>Then maybe even afraid to tell about it until later.

1223
01:02:19.280 --> 01:02:20.880
<v Speaker 3>So I don't know.

1224
01:02:21.119 --> 01:02:23.400
<v Speaker 6>I'm not told to convince that it would come to

1225
01:02:23.440 --> 01:02:25.880
<v Speaker 6>the four that easily, I think, to be honest, and

1226
01:02:25.960 --> 01:02:27.599
<v Speaker 6>this is what Richard thought, so I have to since

1227
01:02:27.599 --> 01:02:30.239
<v Speaker 6>we're talking about Richard Greenwell. Richard was pretty convinced that

1228
01:02:30.360 --> 01:02:32.920
<v Speaker 6>at some point a semi or train would hit one,

1229
01:02:33.320 --> 01:02:36.480
<v Speaker 6>as happens often with big animals, and he therefore had

1230
01:02:36.559 --> 01:02:39.480
<v Speaker 6>arranged with the University of Arizona folks to be able

1231
01:02:39.519 --> 01:02:42.559
<v Speaker 6>to He actually had a plan where they would airlift

1232
01:02:42.599 --> 01:02:45.159
<v Speaker 6>it to a lab at the University of Arizona through

1233
01:02:45.199 --> 01:02:48.559
<v Speaker 6>the contacts he had there with the forrinsic people, and

1234
01:02:48.840 --> 01:02:52.280
<v Speaker 6>that I think might be more of a situation that

1235
01:02:53.000 --> 01:02:56.000
<v Speaker 6>would be more tenable in a sense. But again, I

1236
01:02:56.000 --> 01:02:59.199
<v Speaker 6>don't know what authority figures would do if they if

1237
01:02:59.199 --> 01:03:01.800
<v Speaker 6>something like that had happened. I mean, my goodness, you

1238
01:03:01.800 --> 01:03:04.199
<v Speaker 6>could go wild in terms of speculating as to whether

1239
01:03:04.199 --> 01:03:06.880
<v Speaker 6>it has happened and things have been covered up for

1240
01:03:06.880 --> 01:03:10.719
<v Speaker 6>whatever reason. I think about the implications of having fully

1241
01:03:11.719 --> 01:03:15.559
<v Speaker 6>established that these creatures exist, the implication for the land

1242
01:03:15.679 --> 01:03:19.480
<v Speaker 6>use for the way we use or abuse our public lands.

1243
01:03:20.039 --> 01:03:22.519
<v Speaker 3>Can I have huge implications. There's going to be huge

1244
01:03:22.519 --> 01:03:27.159
<v Speaker 3>economic implications in terms of conservation. Personally, I think it'll

1245
01:03:27.199 --> 01:03:30.280
<v Speaker 3>be on the good side in terms of preventing a

1246
01:03:30.320 --> 01:03:32.679
<v Speaker 3>lot of the abuse we're doing now in our public lands.

1247
01:03:33.199 --> 01:03:36.800
<v Speaker 3>But I could see economic interests not wanting this to

1248
01:03:36.960 --> 01:03:39.960
<v Speaker 3>be discovered at all, that this could be a real

1249
01:03:40.239 --> 01:03:44.079
<v Speaker 3>problem for a lot of economic interests out there that

1250
01:03:44.480 --> 01:03:48.320
<v Speaker 3>depend on non sustainable uses of our public lands.

1251
01:03:48.840 --> 01:03:49.039
<v Speaker 4>Yeah.

1252
01:03:49.239 --> 01:03:52.679
<v Speaker 2>I've always referenced people to doctor Krantz's book when it

1253
01:03:52.679 --> 01:03:54.880
<v Speaker 2>comes to like what do I do if I shoot one? Well,

1254
01:03:55.159 --> 01:03:57.280
<v Speaker 2>you're probably not gonna first of all, like just your

1255
01:03:57.320 --> 01:03:59.440
<v Speaker 2>average Joe Hunter or something, and then you're in the

1256
01:03:59.519 --> 01:04:01.960
<v Speaker 2>museum here, and I would say, well, I get, I get.

1257
01:04:01.960 --> 01:04:04.639
<v Speaker 2>Doctor Krantz said, cut off the biggest piece you can carry,

1258
01:04:05.360 --> 01:04:08.800
<v Speaker 2>get it out, cut off a finger separately, and keep

1259
01:04:08.800 --> 01:04:10.719
<v Speaker 2>it and don't tell anybody where you put it, because

1260
01:04:10.760 --> 01:04:14.079
<v Speaker 2>that'll prove it's yours. Cut out the biggest piece you

1261
01:04:14.119 --> 01:04:17.039
<v Speaker 2>can carry, preferably the head, and bring it to the

1262
01:04:17.079 --> 01:04:20.119
<v Speaker 2>media essentially, so everybody will know it's yours right away.

1263
01:04:20.719 --> 01:04:22.880
<v Speaker 2>I don't do that. I would say I tell people

1264
01:04:23.079 --> 01:04:25.320
<v Speaker 2>call me, I'll get meldrum on it right away. It's

1265
01:04:25.360 --> 01:04:27.480
<v Speaker 2>basically all I can after I verify it, you know,

1266
01:04:28.760 --> 01:04:30.199
<v Speaker 2>after that is out of my hands.

1267
01:04:30.960 --> 01:04:34.880
<v Speaker 3>Well, I certainly did recommend to the NAWAC, and they

1268
01:04:34.880 --> 01:04:36.800
<v Speaker 3>probably thought of it, had already thought of it. Is

1269
01:04:36.840 --> 01:04:39.559
<v Speaker 3>that the very first thing you would want to do,

1270
01:04:39.679 --> 01:04:42.719
<v Speaker 3>if you're doing this in a planned way, is you

1271
01:04:42.760 --> 01:04:44.960
<v Speaker 3>want to have your DNA storage buffer with you, and

1272
01:04:45.000 --> 01:04:47.079
<v Speaker 3>you want to take a tissue sample immediately and put

1273
01:04:47.119 --> 01:04:50.639
<v Speaker 3>it in that buffer number one, so that even if

1274
01:04:50.679 --> 01:04:53.239
<v Speaker 3>you get pummeled by a family of sasquatches later on,

1275
01:04:53.880 --> 01:04:57.719
<v Speaker 3>somebody will find the little cryor to issue sample in

1276
01:04:57.840 --> 01:05:02.639
<v Speaker 3>it that's labeled for two. If you really do think

1277
01:05:02.679 --> 01:05:04.320
<v Speaker 3>you're going to have trouble getting it out because it

1278
01:05:04.400 --> 01:05:07.159
<v Speaker 3>might be an adult male or something, yeah, you know,

1279
01:05:07.199 --> 01:05:09.159
<v Speaker 3>it wouldn't hurt to take a part. And then the

1280
01:05:09.239 --> 01:05:10.280
<v Speaker 3>question is which part.

1281
01:05:11.119 --> 01:05:14.079
<v Speaker 6>And obviously the head would be primo, although an adult

1282
01:05:14.159 --> 01:05:17.639
<v Speaker 6>that might be pretty hard to manage as well. Hand

1283
01:05:17.679 --> 01:05:20.760
<v Speaker 6>and foot would be additional parts to consider as well

1284
01:05:20.880 --> 01:05:26.159
<v Speaker 6>in terms of being really informative definitive pieces. So handfoot

1285
01:05:26.239 --> 01:05:29.199
<v Speaker 6>and hand would be parts that I would argue for

1286
01:05:29.440 --> 01:05:32.280
<v Speaker 6>after taking an initial tissue sample, and to be honest,

1287
01:05:32.320 --> 01:05:34.639
<v Speaker 6>even if you don't have DNA buffaler buffer, just pull

1288
01:05:34.679 --> 01:05:36.639
<v Speaker 6>out a chuck of hair and put it in an

1289
01:05:36.760 --> 01:05:39.159
<v Speaker 6>envelope or wrap it in some paper or do something,

1290
01:05:39.599 --> 01:05:42.599
<v Speaker 6>you know, just to get part of the specimen preserved,

1291
01:05:42.639 --> 01:05:44.519
<v Speaker 6>because especially if you have to head out of there

1292
01:05:44.599 --> 01:05:46.199
<v Speaker 6>right away and you have no way of getting it

1293
01:05:46.199 --> 01:05:48.679
<v Speaker 6>out of there, at least you'll have some remnant of

1294
01:05:48.719 --> 01:05:52.639
<v Speaker 6>what you have shot. So if a hunter does unintentionally

1295
01:05:52.760 --> 01:05:56.199
<v Speaker 6>or through fright or whatever, shoot one, I'd say, yeah,

1296
01:05:56.320 --> 01:05:59.440
<v Speaker 6>take a finger, take more. If you can take a

1297
01:06:00.159 --> 01:06:02.159
<v Speaker 6>clump a hair, at least, you know, stick it in

1298
01:06:02.199 --> 01:06:04.000
<v Speaker 6>your duffel bag or whatever you got I mean, or

1299
01:06:04.039 --> 01:06:06.519
<v Speaker 6>your knapsack or whatever, and then head out of there.

1300
01:06:06.559 --> 01:06:08.800
<v Speaker 6>Because I do think it could potentially be a hazards

1301
01:06:08.840 --> 01:06:12.239
<v Speaker 6>situation if you're by yourself and you're not with others

1302
01:06:12.400 --> 01:06:14.559
<v Speaker 6>have some firepower who could back you up.

1303
01:06:14.760 --> 01:06:16.719
<v Speaker 3>I do think we would need to be cautious under that.

1304
01:06:16.800 --> 01:06:19.239
<v Speaker 6>But yeah, and then you know, I mean, there's certainly

1305
01:06:19.320 --> 01:06:23.000
<v Speaker 6>enough hopefully your self, Cliff, you're a very high profile

1306
01:06:23.119 --> 01:06:26.760
<v Speaker 6>person going through you as an intermediary to get or

1307
01:06:26.920 --> 01:06:29.800
<v Speaker 6>to Jeff elderm or someone. I mean eventually, if it's

1308
01:06:29.800 --> 01:06:32.159
<v Speaker 6>stored properly, it could be analyzed.

1309
01:06:32.639 --> 01:06:36.239
<v Speaker 2>It's a gruesome ways, but that's the only path towards

1310
01:06:36.239 --> 01:06:37.199
<v Speaker 2>species recognition.

1311
01:06:37.679 --> 01:06:40.039
<v Speaker 6>And just think of what it means again, species recognition,

1312
01:06:40.119 --> 01:06:43.800
<v Speaker 6>it means protection. There's a reason why the NAWAC has

1313
01:06:43.800 --> 01:06:46.599
<v Speaker 6>conservancy as a nice part of its name, as they

1314
01:06:46.679 --> 01:06:50.559
<v Speaker 6>recognize I mean, our national forests are just being way abused.

1315
01:06:51.719 --> 01:06:54.639
<v Speaker 6>We have, of course, climate change and other factors that

1316
01:06:54.679 --> 01:06:57.920
<v Speaker 6>are deteriorating. Well, look what happened with the Western wildfires

1317
01:06:58.280 --> 01:07:01.480
<v Speaker 6>taking out some ancient support is in redwoods and the like.

1318
01:07:01.559 --> 01:07:03.840
<v Speaker 6>I mean, there's so much we're doing to this planet

1319
01:07:03.880 --> 01:07:08.159
<v Speaker 6>that's making it less habitable for everything, including humans, that

1320
01:07:08.440 --> 01:07:12.000
<v Speaker 6>we really want to get these things protected. But until

1321
01:07:12.039 --> 01:07:15.559
<v Speaker 6>they're legally recognized, which means that they're recognized by science,

1322
01:07:15.639 --> 01:07:17.079
<v Speaker 6>you're just not going to be able to do that.

1323
01:07:17.960 --> 01:07:21.360
<v Speaker 6>Once we can legally recognize them by having a specimen

1324
01:07:21.400 --> 01:07:24.719
<v Speaker 6>that's accepted, not only do we get all the scientific knowledge,

1325
01:07:24.719 --> 01:07:28.280
<v Speaker 6>but we can finally work towards actually conserving them more

1326
01:07:28.320 --> 01:07:33.039
<v Speaker 6>and more today. For example, the parent that we discovered

1327
01:07:33.079 --> 01:07:36.519
<v Speaker 6>and proved with the specimens after we brought the specimens

1328
01:07:36.559 --> 01:07:39.239
<v Speaker 6>back and demonstrated that it was a new species, a

1329
01:07:39.280 --> 01:07:41.239
<v Speaker 6>new national park was declared and what was going to

1330
01:07:41.239 --> 01:07:45.199
<v Speaker 6>be a timber succession. So there it was worth the

1331
01:07:45.199 --> 01:07:47.840
<v Speaker 6>sacrifice of those individuals to be able to check the

1332
01:07:47.960 --> 01:07:50.840
<v Speaker 6>entire ecosystem and their population in the future.

1333
01:07:51.159 --> 01:07:51.960
<v Speaker 3>But that's the.

1334
01:07:51.920 --> 01:07:53.960
<v Speaker 6>Hard part of conservation today is you've got to prove

1335
01:07:54.000 --> 01:07:55.960
<v Speaker 6>it before people are going to take things out of

1336
01:07:56.119 --> 01:07:57.079
<v Speaker 6>economic production.

1337
01:07:57.880 --> 01:07:58.079
<v Speaker 4>Yeah.

1338
01:07:58.119 --> 01:08:01.440
<v Speaker 2>In fact, we learned when we film Finding Bigfoot in

1339
01:08:01.519 --> 01:08:04.760
<v Speaker 2>Vietnam that the Vietnamese government has already they already set

1340
01:08:04.840 --> 01:08:08.719
<v Speaker 2>the boundaries for a wild Man preserve once they have

1341
01:08:09.000 --> 01:08:11.760
<v Speaker 2>proven their version of the wild man the terree. Yeah,

1342
01:08:11.800 --> 01:08:13.599
<v Speaker 2>so they've already set aside.

1343
01:08:13.280 --> 01:08:15.159
<v Speaker 4>Land for it in China.

1344
01:08:16.159 --> 01:08:16.960
<v Speaker 2>Oh and in China.

1345
01:08:17.079 --> 01:08:20.720
<v Speaker 3>Right, that's fantastic. I'm very happy to hear that. Yeah.

1346
01:08:20.720 --> 01:08:22.800
<v Speaker 3>I hope we can be as visionary here.

1347
01:08:23.239 --> 01:08:27.600
<v Speaker 2>We'll see, well, I think we'll have to be.

1348
01:08:27.640 --> 01:08:30.479
<v Speaker 6>I mean again, once we prove it and demonstrate whatever

1349
01:08:30.479 --> 01:08:32.720
<v Speaker 6>it is, whether it's Haminen or great Ape or whatever

1350
01:08:32.760 --> 01:08:39.319
<v Speaker 6>it is, it'll the public interest and seeing it really

1351
01:08:39.359 --> 01:08:42.439
<v Speaker 6>protected I think will be such that that would really

1352
01:08:42.479 --> 01:08:45.560
<v Speaker 6>be able to be a real win for conservation, not

1353
01:08:45.760 --> 01:08:47.840
<v Speaker 6>just for them, but for everything else, Well, what happened

1354
01:08:47.880 --> 01:08:49.800
<v Speaker 6>with the Ivory build You know, the irebuil winpacker was

1355
01:08:49.800 --> 01:08:52.399
<v Speaker 6>supposed to be discovered in two thousand and four. I

1356
01:08:52.520 --> 01:08:55.840
<v Speaker 6>say supposedly because there's still debate over whether one was

1357
01:08:55.920 --> 01:09:01.479
<v Speaker 6>really filmed or recorded or seen, but it leveraged incredible

1358
01:09:01.520 --> 01:09:07.079
<v Speaker 6>protection of southern swamplands throughout Arkansas particularly, and that was

1359
01:09:07.119 --> 01:09:11.800
<v Speaker 6>with not even totally proving that the birds still survive today.

1360
01:09:12.000 --> 01:09:16.119
<v Speaker 6>So these kind of things are really valuable in conservation.

1361
01:09:16.199 --> 01:09:19.720
<v Speaker 6>I mean, there's a lot of ways we as conservation biologists,

1362
01:09:19.760 --> 01:09:21.920
<v Speaker 6>which is another field that I've sort of shifted to

1363
01:09:22.039 --> 01:09:24.760
<v Speaker 6>as I was at Illinois State University. Is there are

1364
01:09:24.760 --> 01:09:27.840
<v Speaker 6>a lot of ways we justify preserving things, but concepts

1365
01:09:27.880 --> 01:09:31.239
<v Speaker 6>like ecosystems and the like are sometimes hard to get

1366
01:09:31.279 --> 01:09:35.479
<v Speaker 6>across to everyone. But if you have a charismatic megafauna

1367
01:09:35.920 --> 01:09:38.119
<v Speaker 6>to always like that term, a really big animal, that

1368
01:09:38.920 --> 01:09:42.279
<v Speaker 6>is very appealing to people. I mean, it's while the

1369
01:09:42.319 --> 01:09:45.520
<v Speaker 6>World Widlife Fund uses tigers in the like, there's so

1370
01:09:45.720 --> 01:09:50.560
<v Speaker 6>much more public support, dollars and everything else. That then

1371
01:09:50.680 --> 01:09:55.520
<v Speaker 6>is an umbrella to protect everything. And my god, I'm

1372
01:09:55.560 --> 01:09:59.159
<v Speaker 6>just so excited with the prospects of proving that this

1373
01:09:59.239 --> 01:10:04.119
<v Speaker 6>thing exists and then documenting what it's full range is

1374
01:10:04.199 --> 01:10:07.800
<v Speaker 6>that I think it would just leverage not only a

1375
01:10:07.840 --> 01:10:10.800
<v Speaker 6>major advance in primatology, but a major advance in doing

1376
01:10:10.840 --> 01:10:12.399
<v Speaker 6>conservation within North America.

1377
01:10:13.079 --> 01:10:15.119
<v Speaker 2>All right, well, angel with that, I can't think of

1378
01:10:15.199 --> 01:10:18.560
<v Speaker 2>better words. To send our listeners off into their own

1379
01:10:19.039 --> 01:10:21.680
<v Speaker 2>expeditions and try to gather some evidence to bring it

1380
01:10:21.720 --> 01:10:24.319
<v Speaker 2>back and further the science, you know, get the ball

1381
01:10:24.319 --> 01:10:26.319
<v Speaker 2>a little bit further down the field in this big

1382
01:10:26.359 --> 01:10:29.560
<v Speaker 2>football field that we're playing on. So thank you so

1383
01:10:29.680 --> 01:10:32.239
<v Speaker 2>much for joining us. Thank you so much for your

1384
01:10:32.279 --> 01:10:35.399
<v Speaker 2>wisdom that you brought. And it's nice to have another

1385
01:10:35.479 --> 01:10:37.920
<v Speaker 2>academic on the team. So we can't thank you enough

1386
01:10:37.920 --> 01:10:39.439
<v Speaker 2>for spending some time with us.

1387
01:10:39.479 --> 01:10:40.079
<v Speaker 3>My pleasure.

1388
01:10:40.119 --> 01:10:42.800
<v Speaker 5>Thank you, Yeah, thank you, Angela. I appreciate it. And

1389
01:10:42.840 --> 01:10:45.000
<v Speaker 5>I hope to see that at Area X sometime soon.

1390
01:10:45.960 --> 01:10:47.760
<v Speaker 6>That would be a lot of fun. Yeah, as I

1391
01:10:47.800 --> 01:10:50.279
<v Speaker 6>get my health problems under control, That's where I'd.

1392
01:10:50.119 --> 01:10:50.560
<v Speaker 3>Love to go.

1393
01:10:51.319 --> 01:10:52.880
<v Speaker 4>All right, well, good luck with that.

1394
01:10:53.239 --> 01:10:53.600
<v Speaker 3>Thank you.

1395
01:10:54.079 --> 01:10:57.880
<v Speaker 2>There we go again, Bobs. Another cool episode, a little

1396
01:10:58.199 --> 01:11:00.920
<v Speaker 2>slice of history. You know, with the Greenwell expeditions, we

1397
01:11:01.239 --> 01:11:04.359
<v Speaker 2>have a little insight into a scientist's mind and what

1398
01:11:04.399 --> 01:11:08.479
<v Speaker 2>that's going to take. Yeah, it's just fantastic. I'm pretty

1399
01:11:08.479 --> 01:11:09.439
<v Speaker 2>stoked we got Angelo.

1400
01:11:10.039 --> 01:11:12.680
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, I mean, hats off to these academics that stick

1401
01:11:12.720 --> 01:11:15.239
<v Speaker 5>their neck out and you know, put it all on

1402
01:11:15.279 --> 01:11:19.920
<v Speaker 5>the line, their reputations and potentially their livelihood to investigate

1403
01:11:19.960 --> 01:11:22.800
<v Speaker 5>this biggest natural mysuy we have in North America or

1404
01:11:22.840 --> 01:11:23.520
<v Speaker 5>the world even.

1405
01:11:23.960 --> 01:11:25.279
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, we're lucky to have them on.

1406
01:11:26.119 --> 01:11:26.560
<v Speaker 4>Yeah.

1407
01:11:26.640 --> 01:11:29.359
<v Speaker 5>Well cool, Cliff, that was great, And so we got

1408
01:11:29.359 --> 01:11:31.680
<v Speaker 5>a few of the Wood eight people coming up here

1409
01:11:31.720 --> 01:11:33.560
<v Speaker 5>in a row. So this is this is great, and

1410
01:11:33.600 --> 01:11:35.359
<v Speaker 5>I want to tell everyone you got it to go to

1411
01:11:35.359 --> 01:11:37.880
<v Speaker 5>wood eight dot org and listen to their podcasts. They're

1412
01:11:38.079 --> 01:11:40.000
<v Speaker 5>I think they're the best. I mean, obviously everyone knows

1413
01:11:40.000 --> 01:11:42.359
<v Speaker 5>Sasquatch chronicles. If you want to hear stories like witnesses

1414
01:11:42.359 --> 01:11:44.920
<v Speaker 5>telling you know, encounters, but if you want to learn

1415
01:11:45.119 --> 01:11:48.239
<v Speaker 5>learn about bigfoot, go to wood dot org and listen

1416
01:11:48.319 --> 01:11:50.239
<v Speaker 5>to those read I mean, they got tons of stuff

1417
01:11:50.239 --> 01:11:54.239
<v Speaker 5>to read it. You can obviously listening to this like podcasts,

1418
01:11:54.239 --> 01:11:57.000
<v Speaker 5>and their podcast is the best. If you enjoyed that,

1419
01:11:57.439 --> 01:11:59.399
<v Speaker 5>tune back in next week. You've got some more coming up.

1420
01:12:00.199 --> 01:12:06.319
<v Speaker 5>Until then, keep it Squatchy.

1421
01:12:06.760 --> 01:12:10.079
<v Speaker 2>Thanks for listening to this week's episode of Bigfoot and Beyond.

1422
01:12:10.439 --> 01:12:12.720
<v Speaker 2>If you liked what you heard, please rate and review

1423
01:12:12.800 --> 01:12:16.119
<v Speaker 2>us on iTunes, subscribe to Bigfoot and Beyond wherever you

1424
01:12:16.119 --> 01:12:19.319
<v Speaker 2>get your podcasts, and follow us on Facebook and Instagram

1425
01:12:19.399 --> 01:12:22.960
<v Speaker 2>at Bigfoot and Beyond podcast. You can find us on

1426
01:12:23.000 --> 01:12:26.680
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1427
01:12:27.079 --> 01:12:30.079
<v Speaker 2>and tweet us your thoughts and questions with the hashtag

1428
01:12:30.319 --> 01:12:32.079
<v Speaker 2>Bigfoot and Beyond.