Speaker 1: What is up Pelasiko's I Am Dana Valley coming at
you once again with more Jensen of the NBA podcast,
fame of Yahoo Sports, fame of Forbes, his fame, and
of Only Fans Celebrity. We're back to talk a little
bit about those NBA Finals thingamabobs that are going on
at the moment. Tied one to one after a game
to quasi beat down by the Thunder at the expense
of the Indiana Pacers. We're gonna just get into some thoughts,
overarching questions, you know, the whole drill. We don't want
to be too recappy. You've already consumed all the recappy podcasts,
we hope, first and foremost though more, How the heck
are you? Oh?
Speaker 2: I'm doing lousy? No, I don't.
Speaker 3: I just wanted to say ones. No, I'm doing well.
I'm doing well. Look, I am enjoying thoroughly. Shake Field
of Alex Sandra just being freaking elite at virtually everything
that he does. He is so fun to watch. I
might disagree, No, there was no might in it. I
do disagree with the MVP choice, but that doesn't make
him any less of a baller. Him averaging virtually a
point per minute in an nb A final series is
utterly ridiculous.
Speaker 1: I might say he's a bucket getting merchant.
Speaker 2: You might say that's better. That is better.
Speaker 3: I don't hate that. No, And we'll see. I filed
the piece about him over at Forbes today. We'll we'll
see if my editors even taken it was just sort
of a love fest. From my perspective. Just this dude
is unguardable, just unguardable scoring wise.
Speaker 1: Let's hop into the first thing here, though it's the
talking heads more they're discussing it. Do the Pacers need
more from Tyre's Haliburton? Who? Before I throw it to you,
I would like to point out, yes, he only had
seven points do the first three quarters off Game two,
and yes that he ended up leading the Pacers and
shot attempts after the fourth quarter. I think he went
up with thirteen in Game two. I am curious how
you feel about this, because I don't people over simple
to me where it's like the Pacers just need more
than fifteen and a half points per game from Tyre's Halliburton.
And on the surface, I agree, but then you got
to get in there and tell me how are you
getting Tyre's Haliburton more points per game? And I think
getting him into the paint is probably the biggest deal.
And you've seen it with like Indiana's paint frequency is
just down in this series. It's down after they're running
off Missus. It's down of course after the Thunder making
a shot. And I think when the Thunder make a shot,
Indiana's like like rim frequency has just absolutely plummeted because
if you're letting okay, see get its defense set, it
just feels like curtains for your offense on so many times.
How do you feel about the Tyre's Haliburton scoring conversation?
Is there's something that Pacers could do? Did they unlock anything?
Maybe in the fourth quarter where it felt like they
were getting him downhill more, but it was happening off
the ball. What do you make of the whole hashtag discourse?
Speaker 3: So I did in Danish episode about this earlier today,
and I am on the side of let's see if
he can't be activated a little bit better. But yes,
it does have to be calculated. He shouldn't just jack
up shots. It doesn't have to be him thinking of
raw volume, but he has to assert himself in a
way where it's gonna have a ripple effect offensively. So
shots are gonna come easier to pass Siakam, So shots
are gonna come easier to Miles Turner, Andrew Neimhart, aeron
Nie Smith and so on. So the question I have,
and I'm actually gonna throw it back to you a
little bit, is basically, how do we gauge, specifically against
the Oklahoma City Thunder, what constitutes a good shot? Because
I felt for a long longer stretchers, stretches, Wow, I
can't speak today. In Game two, the Pacers were looking
for the perfect shot, and I don't think I need
to remind them that they're going up against the Thunder.
The perfect shot against the Thunder is probably one that's
going to be semi contested at the very least. I
think they have to accept that, and I think they
have to embrace it. So for me, the question is,
how do you get Tyrese Halliburton more shots? Knowing full
well that virtually every shot he's going to get is
going to be at variant degrees contested.
Speaker 1: I'm wondering if and this feels like it might veer
too far away from just like the core principles of
what the Pacers do, and so I recognize that it.
I mean, I don't even know if I would consider
it necessarily bold, but like, do you have to slow
things down to do more against okayc in the sense
of where you're setting screens for Haliburton or how you're
trying to break him free off the ball, Like maybe
you need to be a little bit more methodical about
what he's doing. Specifically, is it doing more like running
more through Pascal Siakam since he's used to operating at
that speed and trying to just like poke in prod
a little bit more than rather than trying to create
this chaos. And I'm only saying that just because I
think Tyr's Haliburton's a fantastic player, but like he's also
someone who, like you can get it feels like the
ball out of his hands by sticking someone on him,
and when that someone is lou Dort, like it's a
very particular defender. I don't like the Knicks had to
go through all these gimmicks to throw slow down Tyre's
Haliburton in so far as they even could. The Thunder
don't have to do that, And so I'm wondering if
you have to be more methodical about how you're going
after Okaysee's defense, and similar to the way you know
you and I talked about after game one, should should
Okaysee start setting ball screens even higher further down the
court for Shay They did that in game too, and
it gave him more of a runway. Now to do
that with Tyre's Haliburton, you probably need to slow down
your offense, which is like half court, full court, whatever,
which is counterintuitive to the Pacers. But is that something
you try or is it thrown it back to you again?
Speaker 3: Here?
Speaker 1: Is it? No? Like you don't slow things down against
okay See, like you just won't stand a chance if
you're trying to play like play from that slant.
Speaker 2: I mean, I'll try it a couple of times.
Speaker 3: I'm willing to test out everything if I'm the Pacers, really,
but it does seem counterintuitive to slow the game down,
specifically against the thunder who you kind of said it there.
If they get a chance to set their defense, good luck,
I mean truly good luck. That is a ridiculous amount
of defensive capabilities they have individually collectively off the bench,
even like this is just a sick ass defensive team
that will find you and strangle you into oblivion if
they can. So it's just that you have to think
so far outside the box. I do think you said
something earlier that is the correct approach is getting Tyres
Halbert and more downhill. One of the things that I
feel that he's kind of leaving on the table a
little bit is his length and his ability to cover
a lot of ground quickly. Like I'm not saying that
Tyre's Halbert is, you know, supremely athletic. I'm not saying that,
but he is long, he has long strides, he does
have burst, So I would like to see him get
into the cup a little bit more. Like he's still
a six' five point, guard and he does have long.
Arms he does know how to gain separation. Inside like
see what. Happens he's attempted zero free throws over the
first two, games zero free throws in seventy three. Minutes
get in, there force the issue a little, bit and
if you get to the foul, line, great that's a
win because that also means you draw foul on one
of the. Opponents if you can do, That like if
you can get a couple early fouls On Loo door
if you can also draw foul On Alex. Caruso, like
if you can do those, things that helps you, overall
not just your own, scoring but that has a ripple.
Effect so AM i Saying Tyry's halburton should just try
to up his volume by you, know hashtag doing. Stuff,
no it has to be, deliberate but as also easier
set them done against these thun.
Speaker 2: DRY i concede, that.
Speaker 1: Right and that's, like so you look at and you're
looking at the way That indy's been driving in this.
Series their drives per game or like they're a little bit,
down but they're like kind of right around where they've
been for the. Playoffs but you were shooting like fifty
two percent out of your drives leading into this, series
your sub forty five. Percent now in this series you
were sub thirty nine percent on your drives in game.
TWO i just wonder if like kind of short Of
Pascal siakam really doing things like if you can get
him down. LOW i don't know if saying like let's
get into the teeth of this thunder defense is a great.
Decision maybe excuse, me maybe inside the starting lineup to
where it's basically everyone can shoot. There but when you're
getting into some of these secondary lineups With indy the
Thunder arm gonna have you, know if you HAVE tj
McConnell in the, corner they're not Gonna they're not gonna fucking,
care nor should. They and so that's WHY i mean
it WAS i think it was tyree'se hit a. Three
it was on the right side of the floor in game,
two and it was they set a high screen for.
Him he came, around and, it's, Yes tyrese is seeing
the pacer seement their best when he's creating havoc in the.
Paint but could you look at that and, say like
maybe you are gonna have to settle for jumpers more
like if they're gonna like just to create that extra
space or do you think that Gets now we're not
even talking about the speed of the. Game what you already,
said like you don't want to get too far away from,
that AND i think that's. Fair is that, Too Like
i'm not saying punt on trying to get to the basket,
altogether But i'm just, wondering like those same avenues that
Make Tyre's. Haliburton, Great it's we could sit here and say,
like do that? More like, absolutely, yeah do that. MORE
i just don't know if that's going to be available
against This thunder.
Speaker 3: Defense look if, that if he can generate open looks from,
threes AND i say, open knowing full well that AGAINST
okc they're never fully. Open uh, yeah go ahead and take.
Them like The pacers are averaging almost forty three point
attempts per game in this. SERIES i think that is
a good. Amount BUT i wouldn't even hate it if
they uped it a little bit. More now some will, say,
oh then you're just playing the math. Game fuck, Yeah
i'm playing the math game in THE Nba. Finals fuck,
YEAH i am Absolutely IF i can win the math,
GAME i win the. Game no one's going to talk
about that in the history. BOOKS i promise you that's
not gonna be a. Thing if IF i can get
in and just establish a hardcore three point based offense
and my star players draining six or seven threes in a,
game Yeah i'm doing. That the thing, is The thunder
are so good at kind of sniffing stuff, out especially
if it's worked once or twice and then they'll throw
different coverage in, There they'll throw different looks in, so
like you, Know tyree's will go up Against Shay, Russo Door,
wallace like you name, it and those are just different.
Looks and those are also players who defend. Differently so
if you get a, step if You're Tyres haliburt and
you get off that initial screen and you have enough
space to get the shot off Against Kason, wallace who's
a little bit smaller and who might play you, know,
defense just a smitch off of Where cabruso would be?
Cool is that going to work Against? Caruso is not
gonna work Against? Shape maybe, Not so it depends on
who's up against him as. Well this is Why i'm
still not pivoting off My thunder pick for this, series
despite The game one. Surprise it just seems like such
a mound everest to climb even.
Speaker 1: Still THE i think the only other, thing AND i
don't know if this is actually as extreme when you
look at how they've Used Tyre's haliburton this, Year like
his off ball percentage this year was a lot higher
than it was last, year AND i think a lot
of that had to do with it probably shifted immediately after, that,
buddy he'll trade To philadelphia last. Season do you do
more of that to where it's because if you're AND
i think we both agree that like if you can
Get Tyre's haliburton just into the, lane shit could even be.
Contestant it's, like, well at least you feel good that
he has gotten. Downhill it's probably easier for him to
do that off the, catch maybe against a tilted defender
or an entire tilted. Defense and that's how he got
like one of his best buckets of the, night WHEREAS
i think it Was Andrew demhard gets into the teeth
the efense you, said a screen for internet. Art he
gets going downhill like the thunder stemy, it but he
kicks it out To Tyre's haliburton and he's. Attacking, Yeah
Jay dubb is, there but like you're still getting the
changes to attack really quickly off the, catch so that
might maybe does that blend the like a bit of
everything to where it's, okay The pacers have maybe slowed
down a. Bit they've taken the ball out Of Tyre's haliburton's,
hands WHICH i think the thunder might constitute as a.
Victory but you're still Putting Tyres alburt in a place
where he can make a super quick, decision and so
that might be Something i'd like to see more. Of
but if we're sitting here also and saying, like, Well
Tyre's alberton is struggling to drive against The, thunder we're
now displacing that burden onto to someone. Else and in
theory it should just be easier because that player is
not going to have, again in, theory as good of
A thunder defender on, him where it's like driving Against
Lou dort is, different Or Alex caruso is different than
driving against whether it's a case In wallace or if
you have a big on. You so that might be
something for them to explore a little bit. More and
none of this to me is to, say by the,
way like, this this isn't. Easy both of these teams
are here for a. Reason The thunders specifically have a
like terrifying defense for a. REASON i don't know that
there's an, answer BUT i don't THINK i think what's
unfair is to, say Like Tyre's haliburton isn't doing. ENOUGH
i think what's fair to say is they need him
to score. More but it's not just On Tyre's haliburton
to put up more shots that that is. Reductive The
pacers need to find a way to put him in
advantage situations in so far as you can even create
them against this.
Speaker 2: DEFENSE i have a question for.
Speaker 1: You, nope the answer is, no let's move.
Speaker 2: On, yeah it might be, No we're gonna go back
to the nineties a little bit.
Speaker 1: Here you definitely know.
Speaker 2: Then So.
Speaker 3: Gary payton obviously one of the best post point guard
players of all. Time he made it such a good
habit of getting into the post and using that as
a passing hub sort of way like that that was
a great way or a great place rather for him
to initiate playmaking because people knew he was, strong they
knew he could kind of shoot over. Guys they knew
he could get buckets close to the rim also off
of post, ups so he would leverage that into the.
Playmaking now we're seeing over the first two Games Tyres
halpert and a grand total of twelve assist over like
the first two, games and eight turnovers that is below
his usual. Rate is there something to the idea of
actually throwing him into not the high post or, sorry
not to the low, post probably the high post if,
anything and trying to turn him into more of a
facilitator like at the. Elbows would that open up the?
FLOOR i don't.
Speaker 1: KNOW i just feel like if you do, THAT i
think it makes it too easy on the thunder, Defense
like what would be what do you think would be
the primary benefit if they did?
Speaker 3: That, WELL i, mean considering he's the best by far
playmaker on both, teams honestly the best playmak in this.
SERIES i am wondering if if he's able to spot
that split second Where siakam Or nemhart Or Nie smith
Or turner Or toppin or whoever makes that little strong.
Cut and you, KNOW i concede fully That okac is
probably the best defense in the league when it comes
to also identifying those movement patterns and closing them. Off
but With, TYRESE i trust that he's able to make
that split second, decision that split second pass and just
get the ball into those guys. Cutting and it doesn't
even have to be a finished, play like those guys
can try to get, fout those guys can skip the
ball across the baseline to an open corner shoot or
something along those. LINES i just want to see some,
way somehow the ball get inside deep in the paint
and be that Through tyrese making cuts from the, elbow
be That tyresse driving into the pain and dishing. OFF
i honestly don't. CARE i just want to see paint.
Speaker 1: Touches, Honestly i'm probably not against trying, everything but that
feels so foreign to what The pacers would typically. Do
he's had in the. Postseason he's had ten elbow touches so.
Far and the other THING i probably wouldn't love about
it is whether if he's gonna be. STATIONARY i just
feel like that's a win for The, thunder and like
when you do it when he's beyond the arcs a
little different because there's sort of that, poll and they'll
still have that poll at the. Elbow but it seems
like The pacers are gonna be at their most dangerous
leveraging his motion on the ball or away from the.
Ball so that seems. Counterintuitive BUT i say that also
noting That i'll try anything against The thunder, defense and
you know, what Maybe Rick carlisle will.
Speaker 2: Too it's interesting you mentioned the.
Speaker 3: Stacknation that's my one concern as, well because you, know
you can't move him around if he set the, elbow he's, seeking,
Right and that was one of the issues That kobe
had for a while, too when he set up camp
with the elbow was he just sort of stood there
and everyone else were ball watching or waiting for a
kickout the worse than there wasn't No wyte a lot of,
movement and you always needed him to be in movement
because that was the better version of. Him AND i
don't think it's any different With Tyree's. Halliburton i'm just
trying to come up with something BECAUSE i don't Think
game two was in any way and encouraging offensive performance
by The, Pacers Like i'm getting nervous If i'm.
Speaker 1: Them, yeah so he's HAD i WAS i looked at
the regular season and playoffs. Combined he's had twenty seven
elbow touches all. Year so we're talking about a. Hundred
we're talking about exactly one hundred games, now, Right, Yeah
so that would be just so. Far And i'm curious
to see just what they're gonna try In game three
and moving, forward BECAUSE i think you NEED i, mean
we kind of we saw hints of, it like In
game one when they're like kind of spearheading that, comeback
like he's hitting threes or if he's getting into the.
LANE i think the thunder our bilt to take away.
THAT i don't know what the answer, is but that's
Why i'm not a head coach in THE. Nba BUT
i do think they're gonna need to find a way
to unlock even if it's not him putting up raw,
numbers the chaos that he creates when he's able to
get into the lane or when he is, scoring it
opens things up for everybody else on the. Team the
other thing that we're gonna talk about with The pacers,
before like a Little thunder specific. Talk i'm just trying
to figure, out, Like, okay well what else can they do?
Here because this isn't just A Tyrese haliburton. Thing And
i'm kind of, wondering do you need to LIKE i
want to be cognizant of saying, like, oh you need
to just play like your main guys, more because what's
got you here the entire season is your. Depth the
way that you play it requires. Depth BUT i kind
of look at It Miles turner just. QUIETLY i know
he's not been The be's knees essentially on offense this,
year but he has been big for them on. Defense
The thunder is still shooting under forty five percent on
twos with him on the. Court the fact that he
was only the pacer only outscored by four points with
him on the court In game, Two, like that's kind
of a big deal because they end up losing it
by what? Fifteen so? Sixteen excuse? Me do we need
to just see more Or Miles turner towards? Hey, like
this isn't someone who's used to playing like forty, minutes
but you might need to do that or is it
just to get away From so first of, all Wasn't
Thomas bryant not supposed to play Until game?
Speaker 2: THREE i think the?
Speaker 1: Injury oh Jars? Walker, yeah? Duh what's wrong with? Me
Is Jariff walker with the? INJURY i apologize, Everybody, LIKE
i don't think this is A Thomas bryant, Series And
i'm starting to, wonder starting TO i have too much
respect for him to declare it. Outright i'm starting to
wonder if this can be A tj McConnell. Series he
was five of seven from the floor with six assists
In game, two AND i just like came away, thinking
oh my, god this is this A tj McConnell, Series
and if it's going to, be you just need to
have him on the ball at all, TIMES i, Think
and even that SOMETIMES i wonder if that becomes a
win for The thunder.
Speaker 3: Defense SO i can't get there with LESS tj McConnell
when he's currently one of the best offensive producers on the,
team not to mention he's, still you, know defensively for his,
side he's rock. Solid, like don't get me, WRONG i
hear what you're, saying and like the ripple effect of
him being virtually a non shooter that you can scale
off of him a great deal and cheat off of.
Him that's an. Issue but given how much this team
just is going to struggle moving forward and, offensively AS i,
suspect because If game two was in the, indication, Woof
i'm just gonna need someone who comes off the bench
FOR x amount of minutes and just generates. Points and
THEN i don't care if it's like nine foot pull,
ups AND i don't care if it's you, know not
quote unquote the most efficient shots out there over the
course of this, series he's nine to thirteen from the,
floor ten assists in what thirty five total. Minutes fuck,
Yeah i'm taking that because this team needs everything they
can squeeze together. Offensively BUT i do concede or not even.
Concede that sounds Like i'm giving up on an argument.
Speaker 2: Here i'm.
Speaker 3: NOT i agree with you on The Thomas brand And
miles turn Points turner.
Speaker 2: This series twenty seven and a half.
Speaker 3: MINUTES i you, KNOW i don't think he's been, great
BUT i don't think he's been bad, Either, like, yeah
the turnoverses have been it reaches for, him but the
defense more than makes up for. It there's also the shooting.
Presence he's also, Big He's we've seen him push around
chit holnkrowm a fair. Bit that's a. Positive SO i
would absolutely extend his. Minutes, yes and his, contract but
that's a conversation at his.
Speaker 1: Contract so just back to the teacher. MCCONAUGHINGY i guess
Where i'm coming at it from is just there was
a PLAY i think it was in the third, quarter
and okayse he was ahead by seventeen and just Like
Tyre's haliburton's coming it's against as as tilted as The
thunder defense is probably just gonna get quite, frankly AND
tj McConnell's in the weak side. Corner he sprints like
he's relocating to the weak's side, corner and nobody On
Oklahoma city. Cares they're just all tilted towards the side
That haliburton is, On And i'm JUST i don't, KNOW
i don't know. What i'm almost kind of, wondering like
is it a waste to play those two? Together like
should it Get like do you Want Tyre's haliburton on
the court WITH i DON'T i don't know what the answer, Is,
LIKE i what is?
Speaker 2: It who would you play over?
Speaker 3: It it's kind of My, yeah you and your. QUESTION
i love your. Questions who would you replace his minutes?
With just eight more minutes to enter nim? Hard you
want to Get Ben sheppard in there? MORE i just
the Question i'm asking really is who is who is
on that roster who you can Replace teach McConnell's minutes
with where The thunder are definitely going to be eyeing
that person and, like oh holy, shit that guy's, Open
like who is going to have that?
Speaker 1: EFFECT i, THINK i think so If halliburton is on the,
floor BECAUSE i do THINK tj McConnell. Is once you
Remove haliburton from the, equation it's, okay where is the
playmaking coming? From like we know What sia often can,
do but where is that other playmaking coming. From i'm
probably looking more At Benedict maathrin or Even Ben, shepherd
who has not had a great or a higher volume.
Series but it feels, like, now well The thunder pay
attention to them, defensively like you're always going to cheat
off of those. Guys but LIKE tj McConnell's taking one
three pointer this entire like through the entire two, games
and so it's cool that he's shooting so.
Speaker 2: Well he is two of.
Speaker 1: Two oh excuse, me he took.
Speaker 3: TWO i, Apologize and he is a perfect three point
shooter in this, series.
Speaker 1: The finals, history just because you can't get any higher than.
Speaker 2: That SO i will not.
Speaker 1: Well three Point James shepherd's two of, four like he's
he's so he's played what twenty three minutes this. Series
IT'S i don't have a G i want to make,
clear don't have a great answer for. IT i think
that you need to lean Into Miles turner in this,
series and IT'S i understand that that's not the minutes.
Load is what the minutes load, is BUT i kind
of look at it and, SAY i, mean you're in the,
finals like it probably wouldn't hurt. Too AND i know
this number is repressed because of How game two, went
but like twenty seven point four minutes For Miles, turners
like there's room to bump that that number. Up what
he had do you know when he ended up logging
in game one isbviously the more accurate view of. That
So i'm just looking at so that would be like
just because he's clearly made some Of Oklahoma city's defense,
uncomfortable and they did find ways to get excuse, me offense,
uncomfortable and they did find ways to Get Chet holmering.
Going he played twenty eight minutes in the.
Speaker 3: Seven On, OKAY i was, CHECKING espn says twenty seven, Minutes.
Speaker 1: So twenty seven twenty, Eight like, No i'm, Sorry like
you bump bumped that up to thirty five, immediately is
WHAT I.
Speaker 2: Yeah and he wasn't even fouled. Trouble so like the snow, JUSTIFICATION.
Speaker 1: I think that's probably the most obvious adjustment that even more,
so we're trying to figure out how do we Get tyre's. Haliburt,
like the most obvious jumpment for The pacers just might
be More Miles, turner who's been absolutely spectacular for, THEM i,
think OR i should say mission critical for them, defensively
AND i think he was amazing defensively in In game. One, specifically,
yep anything else on The pacers before we move on
to the.
Speaker 3: Thunder, yeah one THING i really want to Get obi
topin more vault off the.
Speaker 1: Bench you, know thats The, boords your play that supports
the whole Play Thomas bryant less thing, right it.
Speaker 3: Does he obviously had a very Rough game two after
a very Strong game, one SO i would like to
see him get more. Downhill he's one of those dynamic
power forwards who can shoot the three but can also
grab oops and like get into the teeth of the,
defense who is supremely. ATHLETIC i want to see The
pacers leverage his athleticism a little bit. MORE i want
to see them activate his, size because after, all he
is six nine to forty or something along those.
Speaker 2: Lines he's a, big wide.
Speaker 3: Body he can actually put the ball on the deck
and he can attack on straight on, lines AND i
do think there is merit in him just being, primed
as you, know going into game, three just basically letting
top And, no we are giving you the green light
to just attack the fucking. Rim we are giving you
the green light to facilitate actions inside because we are
going to need to pressure the, evil living shit out
of the thunder, defense and that means you have to
be ON.
Speaker 1: I think that's fair THAT i just anything TO i
guess kind of give. You i'm just you worry about the.
Defense BUT i think at this point it's like you
want your offense to be in its, wheelhouse And obi
Top in plays right into that for. Sure the only
other NOTE i THINK i would have on The pacers
is how do you feel about any of like the secondary,
lineups like the one where it's you, know we're Seeing
siakam without uh Tyres haliburton on the floor and they
feel like they're over indexing on. Starters so it's Like
Turnera nemhard mathraa McConnell for this series negative forty net
rating in four. Minutes is they're, like WHAT'S i guess
the Question i'm. Asking You're Rick. Carlyle we Know Tyers
haliburton is not going to play the entire. Game how
are you fleshing out your best Non haliburton lineup like
Around seakam?
Speaker 3: Specifically, YEAH i MEAN i prefer to Flank kim with
as much shooting as humanly possible and Size andrew Nem hart.
Is you, KNOW i do think McConnell is the better point,
guards like true point guard compared to him And. Nemhart
but But nemhart is a more aggressive, scorer more aggressive. Shooter, so,
like AM i willing to relinquish some playmaking capabilities to
have this this guy who's able to read actions and
respond for the most part. Accurately, YEAH i probably. Am
SO i would need him Alongside sam If heliperten is
out for. Sure matherin is the odd duck in this
conversation because is when he's the primary, guy he's going
to operate in the mid, post even the low. Post
matherin so much leaning intowards being a slasher, driver you,
know Foul. Merchant, honestly it's just someone who can get
to the. Line does do those two mesh honestly like
this does the presence of near the. Rim is that
going to hurt those? Lines those you, know those straight
line drives From. Mathrin are those two going to? Fit
i'm not. Sure so to avoid, That Ben shepard is
probably ONE i would like to pair With siakam as,
well just for the spacing.
Speaker 1: Element let's talk Some thunder from the series so. Far
what are you thinking about when it comes To.
Speaker 3: OKAC i, mean, look you had it right there Getting
Aaron wigins and another scores involved in the. Offense i've
been calling For Aaron wiggins for a while now in this.
POSTSEASON i thought he's been dramatically. Underutilized this is this
guy who really has become one of the better offensive
producers at the wing position in THE nba this season and.
Last SO i was always a little curious how HE
i don't want to say he fell out of the,
rotation but he was playing like what like ten twelve
minutes at one point at least in the, playoffs WHERE
i was like, that that seems. Wrong that seems Like
Mark daignold needs to up. That because This thunder, team
outside Of hartenstein And, holmgren it's not necessarily like a
big ass. Lineup you, KNOW i Mean Alex crusoe six,'
Five kason wallace is, Six' four lou dort, SIX to, Three,
i said joe who also gets, minute six. Two six three,
it's it's, not you know an enormous lineup j. Dubbed
SIX' five so i like having a wing, in their
legit size who, can handle the ball who can, shoot
off the catch who can also, shoot off the, dribble
by the way who would just sort of you can
throw in and just wreak havoc, for ten minutes. Here
twelve minutes there i'd just be. This CONSTANT producer offensively
so i was very very happy to see him get
A real shot in game two and also make. The, most,
of it so yeah you cannot Allow Yourself to get
aaron wiggins back in those ten to. Twelve minute ranges
anymore you. NEED to play him.
Speaker 1: I you don't ever have to sell Me On. More
of aaron wiggins i'm already sold as soon as. You
mentioned his. NAME i'm right there i thought they also
did a good job of putting it like earlier. On in.
The game for sure I'm Actually Surprised that jed homem
gonna finished with more points like but he like putting
him in spots, where he could score like, in this
first half, specifically the first quarter specifically getting him like moving,
a little bit more and he seemed a, little bit less.
Hesitant like making, Decisions the other thing i'm kind of
wondering they did. Go to IT more but like i
love the quote unquote dual big looks for. THEM in
this series i know the thought process and changing the
starting lineup is maybe, you don't do that but they
are more through twelve minutes of having At Least, Two
Of isaiah Hartenstein Chet hunger and kenrich williams on the,
court in this series there are plus. Sixteen, and twelve minutes.
Speaker 3: Yeah that's remember when we remember when people were saying
this isn't going TO Be An ica. A hart andstein
series i.
Speaker 1: LOOK play him more. I think, you could i mean
but that's a that's, a by the way that's like,
A seventy net rating so we're dealing with an. Incredibly
small sample size. BUT that is insane i think There's Room.
To play hartenstein moore and the way, you, do that
is no It's not. Necessarily play chet less it's you
can go to these dual big looks even more and so,
like it's you know we're talking about a lot of
Things that what would indy like be able to do
to Get. Better against the thunder there, is this for me, this,
sense Of like okay the thunder, up one to one.
They're tied, one one. I'm sorry, Excuse me they've led
they've had monster leads in, each of these games and
it just still feels like there's things that they can
clean up that aren't necessarily like these errors that are Being.
Forced by the pacers It's you could play hartenstein in
probably more than twenty two minutes, if you wanted to
or sprinkle in maybe if you don't want to play him,
more for some reason, maybe, you, sprinkle in like okay
this Can be. A KENRIDG williams series so i like
the dual, big look for them and it's not necessarily like,
Like all their bigs hartenstein is Probably the Least Most
i'm calling kendrich, williams a big sorry we're. Just we're
going there he's been like, a big and okay see
for the, past like half decade the way he plays
these aren't guys that, Are gonna Get exploited like maybe hartenstein,
ken in certain instances but you're also just especially, during
the Chet minutes, you're insulating chet against like having these
assignments where he doesn't feel totally comfortable going up against
centers necessarily at either. End of the floor.
Speaker 3: Like, you just said that There are periods where hartenstein
might be, you didn't say exposed but where his flaws might.
Be obvious or whatever which like where that is my
question because WE were in an nba now, where size
has returned and he more. Than anyone embodies that like
he gives you, the big man stuff he, gives you
the rebound he gives, you the physical presence he gives
you the scoring, near of the rim and he.
Speaker 2: Even gives you playmaking like.
Speaker 3: Even if occasionally he'll be strained on an island, Against
some pim player i'm still. Going, Back To that well
like i'm not going to panic. And sit, him down
he goes oh he got, Burned, once, Or twice okay
sure but if he took away five layups and he
out rebounded his opponent significantly and just kept, getting those
ADDITIONAL possessions, Why would i care like then he just.
Won the, MATCH up pretty.
Speaker 1: Yes I would agree but i do think like. That's
a legitimate concern is if the like if, we're talking
About okay if the pacers are maybe gonna not, slow
things down necessarily but they're gonna try and be more
methodical about how They're Getting, separation for tyre's haliburton like
Him Going up against isaiah hartenstein is most likely going
to be A. Win FOR the, pacers and i think
like we've we've seen it in very DRIBS and drabs
because oka see like they're. Able to avoid It it's
not Like i'm saying that, heartenstein's on the floor there's this.
Weak point to attack but Like so, even in game
two he, spent thirty seconds total the matchup data says
like as A Partial, defender of Tyre's haliburton and the
pacers as a team in those. Stretches, scored eight points
yeah so, like or excuse me they scored. They scored
nine points so that's like it's just. SOMETHING to think
about i JUST don't THINK it's i would i. DO
side with you i don't think you're gonna end up
losing in. Net For the series but i'm assuming like
that's the concern going through and EVEN in that, but
i would say let's say you are concerned about, That
as okay sore let's say that is A, win For
The pacers doesn't kenrich williams kind Of Like if it's, kenrick, williams,
in chet like? Well what is happened Like What. Is
the kenrick williams, want to be clear it's Not. As
big as hartenstein so if you're looking, for that rebounding
bump but if You are worried about hartenstein being again
in Quotes, attacked, By The pacers like kenrick williams is
not someone that's going to, be, Dusted, like, that.
Speaker 2: Right no no no his moveability is. Too, good to
that yeah you.
Speaker 1: Got any other? Thoughts on the finals any? Has anything
about this we asked this after. Every time we record
is anything you see now after game two change the
way you?
Speaker 2: Feel?
Speaker 3: About, this series no no things are just being somewhat
iterated to me in terms of like how size is
playing a, morph a, factor again, you know. Rebounding major
major key now it remembers there was a couple there
were a couple of years when people were, making, THIS
argument that oh nba teams, have completely deprioritized rebounding which
was by The. Way, always blowney like yeah they may
have given up on some, offensive rebound freeending philosophies but
rebounding is. AS important as ever i will never. GET
off of that i will. Die ON that heel and
i think this series once. Again JUST proves that.
Speaker 1: Can i, ask in what way just.
Speaker 3: In general when it comes to securing defensive rebounds and
getting out like, in these, series now especially nowadays when
the league has become this three point oriented and games
can be swung in the, manner that, they can you
know having players who are able to just secure defensive rebounds,
instead of you know letting the long rebounds. Leak out
and whatnot it, just stops the bleeding and that's what.
You need so often it allows you to, slow the
pace down needs you to run things. At your own
pace it gets you a chance to just exhale instead
of letting an oncoming.
Speaker 2: Outburst just take you.
Speaker 1: Uh. That sounds about right i've been, a LITTLE bit
surprised like i thought this would be more of a
series that was one and or, like decided by transition
but so far it feels like it's been decided By
just like The so let's use game two As the
example where okase in quote lost the transition. Battle nine
To four it's like indy had more fast break points.
THAN nine to four i just thought we'd have a
game where that, number kind of explodes or it's both of.
Them kind of exploding but that PROBABLY speaks to the
iq and the like the defense of both of these
teams for those those numbers. Not to be higher.
Speaker 3: We probably Should, have talked ABOUT shay especially when i
started up the entire podcast just. Bathing him in praise,
but you know what it's it's become this thing, that's
just we know like the secret is pretty much out
after you want, to repeat we know but, that dude.
Speaker 2: Is ridiculous just.
Speaker 1: Ridiculous oh he's absurd and it's just like every time
he takes one of, those like elbow jumpers if, It
doesn't go in i'm legitimately. Shocked on the inside but.
Speaker 3: It's more, than that it's, like, you know what screw.
Let's get into it. It's more than that it's when
he snakes, the pick and roll you just never know
WHETHER he's seeking the midi or, he's setting you up
like lulling you into a false sense of Security, where
you're like oh he's he's gonna pull, up IN a
minute so i. Better stick to him and then he
just blows by your ass and gets to the rim
or draws, a foul or whatever like there is no
way to fully understand what he is about to do,
because of that footwork, Which, is bloody gorgeous like there's
no way. You know he'll dribble he'll like. Have this
hang dribble he'll like look at. Your feet as well
if your left foot is just an inch, in the wrong.
Direction he'll abuse it he's just, so frick and smart.
Speaker 1: And he's made MORE by the Way I think and
kaylen COOPER had this dat i believe BY the way
that okc set their highest average like screens in terms
of difference distance away From the. Basket in game two
so giving him and that extra runway. Makes him more
dangerous and what even makes it more dangerous is if
you have one or two members of the supporting cast
like going and able to do, their own things again
tilt the defenses, or Just hitting shots shakeild jugxander becomes
that much, more dangerous as well because you can't just
kitch and sink. Him, on every possession nope can you
tell our listeners where they could find you and all
the work that you do before we.
Speaker 3: Get out of here you can Find Me, over AT BLUE.
Sky at msja nba you can find On Work over At.
YAHOO sports and forbes, i HAVE The, podcast the nba
podcast and Also if, you're Into Danish stuff as tom,
chambers once told me you Can go listen.
Speaker 2: To buss your, people.
Speaker 1: Until next, time and as always we with the shout,
out to, the one, the only, the legendary the indelible
the player who really could have tilted the outcome of
these finals had one of these teams and smart, Enough
To Sign Him mister frank nila kina