Speaker 1: Ship, the Ship Day Talk to meet you, s.
Speaker 2: S Stars, Stars, Snack.
Speaker 3: S Shuter.
Speaker 2: Spression, Specie Steps Special Ships, to be sad.
Speaker 4: And beg the game, the.
Speaker 5: Game, the game.
Speaker 2: In the gay thing, the game, the game, the name
Speaker 2: became the.
Speaker 1: Game.
Speaker 6: See some time.
Speaker 1: I'm six.
Speaker 7: That's the day, the second.
Speaker 8: Coming, All guys, welcome everybody to the Occult Rejects today.
Speaker 6: We got a packed, packed house.
Speaker 8: We got one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight,
Speaker 8: and uh we got one guest and seven occult rejects
Speaker 8: coming at you tonight. Uh yeah, I'm not gonna let
Speaker 8: everybody plug their own show. Just to keep it simple.
Speaker 8: We got Lisa, the Occult reject Mad Scientists. We got
Speaker 8: Gin the motherfucking Ninja. We got the Headless Giant himself.
Speaker 8: We got Ethan Indigo, we got TJ, we got the
Speaker 8: o g himself, Robbie Marx, we got everybody in the
Speaker 8: house tonight.
Speaker 2: We got.
Speaker 8: Scorpion and Spider, Spider and Scorpion symbolism, and who better
Speaker 8: else to bring in but the Tarot Man himself, Mario
Speaker 8: from Symbolic Studies. Mario, thank you so much for jumping
Speaker 8: on with us tonight and covering with this covering this
Speaker 8: topic with us. That's what's up. Let all the people
Speaker 8: who don't know who you are yet, all the new
Speaker 8: listeners know where they can find your amazing work, please sir.
Speaker 7: Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 9: So people can go to Symbolic Studies dot com and
Speaker 9: there they can find my my YouTube and my Instagram, Twitter,
Speaker 9: all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 7: I do a lot of short form videos.
Speaker 9: I just released a new one today about the relationship
Speaker 9: with Sagittarius in the Rainbow, which is pretty interesting. But
Speaker 9: if people go to my YouTube, we'll find longer form
Speaker 9: of content on my live tab and I have presentations
Speaker 9: and things like that.
Speaker 7: But they can find everything on my site.
Speaker 8: Awesome, thank you very much. I forgot I think it
Speaker 8: was probably the last episode we were on. Somehow we
Speaker 8: ended up talking about scorpion and snake symbolism. A scorpion
Speaker 8: inspired of symbolism.
Speaker 6: My bad.
Speaker 8: I've used them myself recently, just in artwork that I've done,
Speaker 8: and I do think it's my opinion the things that
Speaker 8: I used a lot in occultism. So I guess, like,
Speaker 8: what got you even to even kind of like looking
Speaker 8: into that stuff or picking that stuff up, Mario, If
Speaker 8: you don't mind me asking or was it just something
Speaker 8: that came along through.
Speaker 9: Taro and just looking at art, right, I mean, Scorpio
Speaker 9: is a sign that's really huge. You know, there's so
Speaker 9: much like information connected to Scorpio, and so a lot
Speaker 9: of people say that that's the deepest sign in astrology.
Speaker 9: You know, there's three emanations, which kind of tells you
Speaker 9: about its depth. Right, It's a scorpion, it's a serpent,
Speaker 9: it's also an eagle phoenix, and so with Scorpio, you know,
Speaker 9: I've done a ton of work with that sign. That
Speaker 9: was actually the first sign I ever made any content about.
Speaker 9: So Halloween season twenty twenty is when I started putting
Speaker 9: out content, and so I was covering the death card
Speaker 9: and things like that. Scorpio is well known for, you know,
Speaker 9: corresponding with like sex and death. So it's always been
Speaker 9: an interesting sign. And then spider symbolism to me, actually
Speaker 9: wasn't something that came online until maybe like a year
Speaker 9: and a half ago or something like that. And it's
Speaker 9: really interesting. I think the conversation we had that kind
Speaker 9: of kickstarted having this stream tonight is the fact that
Speaker 9: there are kind of some people out there suggesting that
Speaker 9: if there's a creature or an animal that represents the
Speaker 9: current age.
Speaker 7: It might be eight legged.
Speaker 9: So Thomas Sheridan, he's an interesting guy, he proposes he
Speaker 9: made a couple of videos about the octopus being sort
Speaker 9: of like the totem animal of the current age, and
Speaker 9: he went to all of these different reasons why, and
Speaker 9: he is interested in love, crafty and stuff, and so
Speaker 9: the octopus.
Speaker 7: Very much like tied to that, right.
Speaker 9: But then the number eight in and of itself is interesting.
Speaker 9: And then kind of in the background too, I've had
Speaker 9: conversations with several friends about the nature of the spider
Speaker 9: and spider symbolism kind of being a thing, and so
Speaker 9: that was kind of a weave with a few of
Speaker 9: my friends in person that we would talk about. And
Speaker 9: then just before this stream, I had mentioned that one
Speaker 9: of my friends has had some like astral sort of
Speaker 9: dream like experiences with like a spider queen, and spider
Speaker 9: symbolism relates heavily to the feminine for sure, So there's
Speaker 9: so many examples of this same thing with scorpio. So
Speaker 9: there's a lot of things that kind of overlap between
Speaker 9: the two. So maybe that could be a good place
Speaker 9: to start. Is sort of like what is relatable between
Speaker 9: the two. So they're both the rachnids, the scorpion and
Speaker 9: the there's the eight legged dynamic between the two. Like
Speaker 9: I said, very very feminine. The spider is known for
Speaker 9: being like a weaver and a spinner basically, and so
Speaker 9: spinning symbolism. There's so much feminine stuff kind of going
Speaker 9: on there in and of itself. I have some old
Speaker 9: moon cards, some old tarot cards that correspond with the moon,
Speaker 9: and you actually see spinners like women, like spinning thread
Speaker 9: and stuff like that, like on that card. And so
Speaker 9: even the moon has like all of this stuff related
Speaker 9: to the spider, and so you're gonna see a lot
Speaker 9: of lunar symbolism kind of baked into the spider. The
Speaker 9: fact that the spider two draws things in right, it's
Speaker 9: like the web itself. It's like a snare or a trap.
Speaker 9: That's really feminine. You know, women are receptive, women are
Speaker 9: so magnetic. You know, opportunities men everything comes to them.
Speaker 9: They don't have to go anywhere. It's more of man's
Speaker 9: nature to go out and travel and conquest and whatever. Yeah,
Speaker 9: that's even that I've been talking about that.
Speaker 8: Sorry to interrupt you, but I think You've even brought
Speaker 8: that up before in the past, kind of like the
Speaker 8: whole idea with the king and the queen. The queen
Speaker 8: stays home and the king goes out and fights the battles.
Speaker 6: That's it.
Speaker 9: All you really have to do is just look at
Speaker 9: our reproductive organs and how they work. Right, So it's
Speaker 9: the sperm of man that kind of leaves home and
Speaker 9: goes on a journey and travels right, And then it's
Speaker 9: the eggs of a woman that'll stay in the confines
Speaker 9: of her body and to become inseminated to actually create
Speaker 9: a baby. And so the feminine is way more passive
Speaker 9: that way. The masculine is more projective. I even think
Speaker 9: of the bow and arrow, so literally it's the arrow
Speaker 9: that leaves, it's the phallus that leaves, but it's the
Speaker 9: bow that stays with the.
Speaker 7: Archer, right, and that bow is very, very feminine.
Speaker 9: So there's a whole aspect of the spider being receptive
Speaker 9: that way and kind of in airing you know, what
Speaker 9: it feeds on. And then also too with the feminine thing,
Speaker 9: there's a lot of like dark mother symbolism associated with
Speaker 9: both the spider and the scorpion. So even the spider
Speaker 9: dynamic with it eating its mate.
Speaker 7: Right.
Speaker 9: I don't know how many like species of spiders that
Speaker 9: actually like happens with, but that's definitely a thing. There's
Speaker 9: actually a great movie. Has anyone here seen Under the Skin. No,
Speaker 9: it's completely related to this. It's really fantastic. I'm not
Speaker 9: going to give too much away, but it's about the
Speaker 9: whole entire dynamic of luring men in and kind of
Speaker 9: like taking advantage of them. It's like a sci fi
Speaker 9: horror movie. Scarlett Johansson's actually in it, and it blew
Speaker 9: me away. I saw in the theater once. But it
Speaker 9: relates to some of the stuff that I'm gonna be
Speaker 9: talking about tonight. Probably the most interesting thing that I
Speaker 9: wanted to bring up. And we have so many like
Speaker 9: like intelligent panelists here, I want to give people time
Speaker 9: to talk. I came across a book called Arakney Rising,
Speaker 9: and I didn't read it from cover to cover, but
Speaker 9: I got the gist of what this guy was trying
Speaker 9: to propose. And it kind of weaves in like spider symbolism,
Speaker 9: scorpio symbolism, and even the number thirteen. It's Friday the thirteenth, right,
Speaker 9: and the number thirteen is like really really intriguing to me.
Speaker 9: But this guy was trying to make the case that
Speaker 9: there's a constellation kind of like a hidden constellation, and
Speaker 9: there's a lot of lost constellations. There's even a book
Speaker 9: I've been wanting to get for years, literally titled lost Constellations,
Speaker 9: Constellations that were acknowledged way back in the day that
Speaker 9: people don't acknowledge. Obviously, this is like always an evolving
Speaker 9: sort of thing, but he was saying that there's a
Speaker 9: constellation that is called Arakney and it's a spider, and
Speaker 9: he was trying to make the case that this is
Speaker 9: actually the true hidden thirteenth sign, right, the true hidden
Speaker 9: thirteenth constellation. And I just thought it was interesting, and
Speaker 9: I'm always willing to hear people out out and maybe
Speaker 9: it becomes relevant later or whatever. But what I thought
Speaker 9: was really intriguing was that he was placing it directly
Speaker 9: opposite of Efucus, which is what most people say is
Speaker 9: like the thirteenth sign, right, So most people when they
Speaker 9: make this claim, I've heard people make the claim of
Speaker 9: the Pleiades is the thirteenth constellation, Arakne being the thirteenth constellation,
Speaker 9: Ofucus being the thirteenth constellation. So the fact that Arakney
Speaker 9: is opposite O. Fucus I thought was really intriguing. Ofucus
Speaker 9: is riding between Scorpio and Sagittarius, and even a lot
Speaker 9: of people say that the arrow of Sagittarius is pointing
Speaker 9: towards O. Fucus, or that the stinger of the Scorpion
Speaker 9: is pointing towards Ofucus. And right in this area too,
Speaker 9: is where a lot of people say is the galactic
Speaker 9: center as well, and that that's actually what these constellations
Speaker 9: are kind of pointing towards or whatever. What I've heard
Speaker 9: through authors who are really interested in like the polar
Speaker 9: tradition and primordial tradition, I've heard it be said that
Speaker 9: Ofucus symbolically is the exit off of the zodiac. It's
Speaker 9: almost like a bend in a river something along these lines,
Speaker 9: and it actually takes you to the northern portion of
Speaker 9: the sky, so it's almost like a bend towards the
Speaker 9: inner portion of the ecliptic basically, and Ofucus is more
Speaker 9: northern than all of the other signs along the ecliptic.
Speaker 9: The path of the sun right and Ofucus also, people
Speaker 9: say that it's ruled by mercury too, which is really interesting,
Speaker 9: and so that makes a lot of sense because Ofucus
Speaker 9: is like the serpent bearer, the serpent handler, and there's
Speaker 9: a lot of serpentine symbolism with mercury and stuff like that,
Speaker 9: and the healing arts and stuff like that comes into play.
Speaker 9: I would say with all three of these signs, Scorpio, Sagittarius,
Speaker 9: and Ofucus. And so I've heard it be said that
Speaker 9: Ofucus is the exit from the zodiac, and it being
Speaker 9: the thirteenth sign, the number thirteen breaks to me the
Speaker 9: way I put it in my words, right, it kind
Speaker 9: of breaks a solar spell. And the number twelve is
Speaker 9: heavily related to this solar spell, this solar dynamic, this
Speaker 9: solar age that we kind of live in. Right now,
Speaker 9: you've got the twelve signs of the zodiac, right, You've
Speaker 9: got twelve numbers on a standard clock, right, and the
Speaker 9: clockwise rotation of the hands that we see on all
Speaker 9: clocks that's more of a solar rotation. To go counterclockwise
Speaker 9: is actually more of a polar rotation. The solar rotation
Speaker 9: is more expansive, like the rays of the sun, more projective,
Speaker 9: more masculine. The polar rotation is more contractive and goes
Speaker 9: towards the center, goes towards the pole. This is why
Speaker 9: in Islam, you go to the mecca, you go to
Speaker 9: excuse me, mecha, you go to the kabba cube. You
Speaker 9: go around the kabbacube seven times. You go counter clockwise,
Speaker 9: as you're actually going towards the center, you're getting closer
Speaker 9: to mother. Basically, the kabba cube is a symbol of
Speaker 9: the mother pretty much, right. It even literally has a veil.
Speaker 9: It's called the kisswah, So they create a new veil
Speaker 9: every single year, and veil symbolism heavily ties into virgo symbolism.
Speaker 9: This is when you know, the virgin wears the veil, right,
Speaker 9: and then the veil is lifted on her wedding day,
Speaker 9: when she symbolically no longer is a virgin.
Speaker 6: Right.
Speaker 7: But virginity used to mean something else way back in
Speaker 7: the day.
Speaker 9: It meant unwed pretty much, not physical virginity, So you
Speaker 9: could still have had sex, but technically, or I guess
Speaker 9: in using the old language, you were still a virgin
Speaker 9: pretty much.
Speaker 3: So when virginity mostly applied to women.
Speaker 7: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, that makes sense. That makes perfect
Speaker 7: sense exactly.
Speaker 9: And so the number thirteen basically breaks the harmony of
Speaker 9: the twelve signed system that most people follow. So with
Speaker 9: a twelve signed system, you have this perfect sort of
Speaker 9: gritted circle, right, you have four quadrants, you have this cross, right,
Speaker 9: and then in each quadrant you have three signs, giving
Speaker 9: you twelve signs in total. If we had thirteen signs,
Speaker 9: it breaks that harmony. And so it's actually the number
Speaker 9: thirteen does break sort of this solar spell like I'm
Speaker 9: referring to. And the number thirteen is the card in
Speaker 9: the terror that corresponds with death, and so the death
Speaker 9: kind of breaks a cycle in itself right with what
Speaker 9: it represents and everything else. And the death card is
Speaker 9: what corresponds with scorpio as well. So again scorpio relates
Speaker 9: to sex and death, and so there's an interesting dynamic
Speaker 9: with scorpio and the number thirteen, and even Sagittarius. Sometimes
Speaker 9: Sagittarius's tail used to have a stinger at the end
Speaker 9: of it, literally a scorpion tail, and so and even
Speaker 9: sometimes too, Death used to carry a bow and arrow
Speaker 9: and have an actual scythe with them, which kind of
Speaker 9: corresponds to the archer and things like that. And so
Speaker 9: what I've kind of heard over time is that this exit,
Speaker 9: this this o fucus sort of gateway out of the
Speaker 9: solar cycle of things is basically it's a it's a
Speaker 9: polar sign, it's a northern sign. It's actually encouraging you
Speaker 9: to go back to an older skyclock. So what I've
Speaker 9: talked about before is that the path of the sun
Speaker 9: and the modern skyclock that is astrology. Modern astrology is
Speaker 9: a newer construct basically, but in the Primordial Age a
Speaker 9: long long time ago, the skyclock was ursa major and minor,
Speaker 9: and so a fucus kind of encourages you to go
Speaker 9: back to a polar sort of dynamical polar age and
Speaker 9: polar wisdom and things like that.
Speaker 3: Well, I act wonder, Mario, if you can imagine those
Speaker 3: two snakes being like a branch and the rest of
Speaker 3: the zodiac being the fruit, and we're hanging off of
Speaker 3: the northern pole, right, So it's like not only exit
Speaker 3: but also entrance. So it's like we're sort of that
Speaker 3: fruit hanging off the vine or the branch.
Speaker 9: Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally, no, I can totally see that
Speaker 9: for sure. So Scorpio creates like an axis with Taurus
Speaker 9: as well, which is really interesting. And what I've basically heard,
Speaker 9: because Taurus and Scorpio are opposite each other, is that
Speaker 9: in this primordial age, the main exit to the other
Speaker 9: side to the heavens, this stairway to heaven idea, existed
Speaker 9: in the northern sky, and that the Pole Star was
Speaker 9: kind of this star that basically was an indicator of
Speaker 9: where the exit from this cave actually is right.
Speaker 7: And during this transition from a.
Speaker 9: Polar age to a solar age, the axis shifted, so
Speaker 9: kind of the gateway to the other side shifted. And
Speaker 9: what I've heard is that the Pleiades and Taurus kind
Speaker 9: of acted as this new sort of mark that indicated
Speaker 9: this exit out or this exit in, and that this
Speaker 9: new axis basically went to the northern sky through the
Speaker 9: Polestar along the lines of what's referred to as the
Speaker 9: world axis or Axis Mondi. And then now basically a
Speaker 9: lot of people acknowledged that the Pleiades and Taurus, or sorry,
Speaker 9: the Pleiades, Taurus and Scorpio kind of operates as this
Speaker 9: new axis because it's along the path of the Sun.
Speaker 7: And when people became.
Speaker 9: More solar, they wanted to find this new gateway that
Speaker 9: basically has this harmony with the solar path pretty much.
Speaker 7: And so on one side you have scorpio.
Speaker 9: On the other side you have aracne potentially, so on
Speaker 9: both sides you have this this scorpion and then you
Speaker 9: have this spider. So that's kind of another interesting like
Speaker 9: parallel between the two.
Speaker 3: That brings up cancer. Like the height of summertime would
Speaker 3: be like the thing in the middle. And if you
Speaker 3: think about the three fates of the moide, you've got Clotho,
Speaker 3: the spinner, You've got atroposts, which would obviously be the
Speaker 3: you know, the stinger, and then what's in the middle.
Speaker 3: I think the middle part would probably be that crab
Speaker 3: symbolism because it's sort of always moving. The crabs make
Speaker 3: massive migrations. They're the measurers of distance, which.
Speaker 4: In Egyptian terms was the scare beetle, the symbol of rebirth.
Speaker 9: That's right, yeah, yeah, exactly. It's interesting you bring that
Speaker 9: up too, because there's a relationship with scorpio, the scorpion
Speaker 9: and a lot of other words that begin with We
Speaker 9: made a whole entire video about this, so like skin
Speaker 9: to skin something I guess skin came from skinning, which
Speaker 9: came from the fact of skinning an animal, like with
Speaker 9: a blade. Right, there's always this penetrative sort of thing.
Speaker 9: So screw, scalpel, scar to scold somebody, right, even like skull.
Speaker 9: There's a lot of words that begin with this sound
Speaker 9: and actually relate to scorpio or the scorpion or have
Speaker 9: some sort of correspondence like that. So scare a beetle,
Speaker 9: I would say, is like another one, right, So they're
Speaker 9: both water signs the cancer and then and then scorpio.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 9: So so that was one weave that I just wanted
Speaker 9: to get off my chest, you know, with everything, the
Speaker 9: world wide web, right, what we're on right now too,
Speaker 9: And so is this a snare? Is this a trap
Speaker 9: of some sorts? You know, reality itself has been likened
Speaker 9: to a web or like a fabric that's woven and
Speaker 9: things like that. So I think that's another interesting, you know,
Speaker 9: correspondence with everything. The spider resting in the middle of
Speaker 9: a web has been likened to like the center of
Speaker 9: the world or the center of the universe, which I
Speaker 9: think is really interesting, which exts in line yep with
Speaker 9: the axis mundy as well.
Speaker 7: Yeah, exactly, right.
Speaker 9: The number eight too has been a thing that I
Speaker 9: think is, you know, just really intriguing. Some people have
Speaker 9: said that, you know, if the number seven has all
Speaker 9: of this mystical stuff going on with it, there's alchemical
Speaker 9: processes that make use of seven steps.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 9: It's said that there's seven colors to the rainbow, but
Speaker 9: I'm learning that there's actually six colors. But the seventh
Speaker 9: color is actually like invisible. It's kind of the etheric
Speaker 9: transcendental color. Basically again ursa major minor. They each have
Speaker 9: seven stars. You've got the seven traditional planets, seven days
Speaker 9: of the week. Right, it goes on and on and on.
Speaker 9: There's actually a number of myths that incorporate seven spiders
Speaker 9: or seven scorpions. So I guess when Isis was looking
Speaker 9: for Osirius's body parts, that she brought seven scorpions along
Speaker 9: with her. And then in one of my books too,
Speaker 9: there's an old spell that I came across, and you
Speaker 9: say the scorpions name or the person you're trying to
Speaker 9: basically like hex seven times and then it'll go out
Speaker 9: and sting the person that you're actually trying to sting
Speaker 9: and inflict damage on. So there's a number of things.
Speaker 9: When I was reading through my books, I'm like, Wow,
Speaker 9: there's the number seven again, seven spiders or seven scorpions
Speaker 9: or something along those lines. Seven chakras, right, so the
Speaker 9: number eight might be like the destination of going through
Speaker 9: seven steps. Basically, it's almost kind of like the apex
Speaker 9: or pinnacle or something along those lines, once you go
Speaker 9: through those seven different tiers or gradients or processes or whatever.
Speaker 9: So I think it was kind of intriguing.
Speaker 4: The Book of Enoch, or the books of Enoch, I
Speaker 4: should say, the Slavonic eno they specifically talk about their
Speaker 4: seven days of creation and then there's an eighth day
Speaker 4: of timelessness or rest. But the entire Enochian system is
Speaker 4: based around sevens or seven seven seven, got it?
Speaker 10: Got it?
Speaker 7: Yeah, that makes perfect sense exactly.
Speaker 3: Eight and thirteen would have a lot in common, then,
Speaker 3: wouldn't they, because they break the cycle right exactly.
Speaker 7: Yep, that's how I see it too, for sure.
Speaker 5: The system of music that we use now too, right,
Speaker 5: is got seven notes, but it's called a set of octaves,
Speaker 5: and so that eighth in that not only is this symbolic,
Speaker 5: but in that structure, the eighth is leading to the
Speaker 5: next level. As you kind of alluded to, Maria.
Speaker 9: Excellent. Yeah, man, I'm super into it. I've also heard
Speaker 9: people refer to this as the eighth climb. I'm not
Speaker 9: even sure what word means, uh c L I M.
Speaker 9: But one of my books he refers to as the
Speaker 9: eighth climb once you get to that point. And then
Speaker 9: I think Rudolph Steiner has a thing about the eighth
Speaker 9: sphere which sounds like it could be related to some
Speaker 9: of this business as well.
Speaker 10: Well.
Speaker 5: I always think about the seven spheres as lacking the
Speaker 5: eighth part, of course, which is us earth right having
Speaker 5: having that structure to it too. And in Dallas kind
Speaker 5: of reckoning, embodying the eight levels is understanding the eight
Speaker 5: elements of the eaching and that really and this, this
Speaker 5: whole process is has a divination path towards it about it,
Speaker 5: but it also teaches us essentially to walk softly relative
Speaker 5: to the world, and then the world is not as
Speaker 5: impactful in regards to us and the spider and in
Speaker 5: Taoism has a very respected life in that it creates
Speaker 5: with its mind from its body, and uh, it really
Speaker 5: illustrates the something that we can all seek to embody.
Speaker 5: The Wu Way process right, it sets up its web,
Speaker 5: it doesn't work more than it needs to, and it
Speaker 5: it is patiently receptive.
Speaker 10: It's going back to what you're saying, without feminine energy.
Speaker 10: So the whole.
Speaker 5: Yeah, the whole WU Way idea is having the most
Speaker 5: result from the least tedious effort and useless effort.
Speaker 7: Gotcha. Yeah, I love that too.
Speaker 9: You had mentioned something before the stream about a Native
Speaker 9: American myth or deity that's related to the spider Yeah,
Speaker 9: being a grandmother, right, yeah, yeah, the Hope.
Speaker 5: And actually the reason why I can never pronounce Hopey
Speaker 5: words is because of their ski and w's and they
Speaker 5: all have this word I cannot pronounce.
Speaker 10: It has a skit in it, I believe.
Speaker 3: But the.
Speaker 5: Spider Grandmother, of course, embodies the feminine and combines and
Speaker 5: then separates with the son God, Hope, you did to
Speaker 5: create all life, to weave all life, and she spins
Speaker 5: out from from.
Speaker 10: Her web.
Speaker 5: All the people and all the tribes, and in symbolic
Speaker 5: kind of relationships, she brings all humanity out of the
Speaker 5: four caverns into the first world.
Speaker 10: And then there we are in the fourth world.
Speaker 5: Now according to the Hope and Uh, the the Spider
Speaker 5: Grandmother of course brings us in kind of this uh
Speaker 5: orphic even up and down manner that we've been touching
Speaker 5: on recently. She brings us into the underworld and saves
Speaker 5: us from these cataclysms and then brings us back up,
Speaker 5: and so the the Hope. Uh And in the Southwest
Speaker 5: and in many different Native American cultures they have similar
Speaker 5: spider woman divinities, but none so as specific or are articulated,
Speaker 5: maybe as the as the Hope, which the Hope have
Speaker 5: a prophecy too about uh this that one day the
Speaker 5: spider web will cut for the Earth. And I believe
Speaker 5: all their prophecies are when this happened, good things might occur.
Speaker 5: And if this happens, not too good things might occur.
Speaker 5: So I think that's what is kind of gaimed them
Speaker 5: respect But the prophecy I was alluding to is about
Speaker 5: one day the Turtle Island in North America will be
Speaker 5: covered by a spider web.
Speaker 10: And for many decades it was noted to be.
Speaker 5: The telephone poles and the electric poles, but in recent times,
Speaker 5: of course, it's.
Speaker 10: Been related to the Worldwide Web. One the.
Speaker 5: Hindus, they believe that the spider and the spider web
Speaker 5: is like the as as you mentioned to Mario, the
Speaker 5: veil between Maya and Nirvana. Right, it's it's the very
Speaker 5: dimension that we passed through, these these energies and and
Speaker 5: all that reminded me of the very famous eight legged
Speaker 5: animal that's not real, the slip mirror of Odin, who's
Speaker 5: of course related to eight and all that, but his
Speaker 5: horse has eight legs in order to transverse these dimensions.
Speaker 10: It's it is said, so that I appreciate you let
Speaker 10: me to share. That's all kind.
Speaker 9: Of for sure, man, No, that's excellent. Yeah, yeah, A
Speaker 9: couple of my books brought up some of those things
Speaker 9: that you just brought up to.
Speaker 7: Yeah.
Speaker 9: I mean, the other thing I wanted to mention is
Speaker 9: this spin dynamic. And if we're talking about kind of
Speaker 9: like spin transversing or going through different like realities or
Speaker 9: thresholds or whatever you want to say, you know, there's
Speaker 9: a huge parallel with this sort of opening or gateway
Speaker 9: with the world axis what people refer to as that.
Speaker 9: And so when you're talking about spinning everything, whatever spins
Speaker 9: has to have an axel, it has to have a
Speaker 9: folk rum, it has to have a point of pivot,
Speaker 9: and so one of my books was saying that literally
Speaker 9: the word spider comes from an Old English word spythra,
Speaker 9: which literally means spin. And then in German the word
Speaker 9: for spider, I guess is like spin or spine or
Speaker 9: something like that spi n e. So literally just going
Speaker 9: back to this spinning sort of dynamics. So again, nothing
Speaker 9: can rotate, nothing can revolve without this sort of axis
Speaker 9: in the middle. Which the more I learn about symbolism,
Speaker 9: so many things go back to axial symbolism, you know,
Speaker 9: like a point of pivot, you know. And I would
Speaker 9: say mother is the hub of the wheel.
Speaker 7: She just is.
Speaker 9: Mom is the hub of the wheel with the family unit.
Speaker 9: In many ways, she makes the world go round. Even
Speaker 9: in the World card and the tarot, you have a
Speaker 9: woman in the middle of this wreath around her right,
Speaker 9: It's like it doesn't it wouldn't make sense to me
Speaker 9: symbolically to have a man there, But it makes all
Speaker 9: the sense in the world to have a woman there.
Speaker 9: And oftentimes she has like a cloth wrapped around her.
Speaker 9: So I see a lot of world axis symbolism and
Speaker 9: axial symbolism, hub the hub of the wheel symbolism with
Speaker 9: woman like through and through big time and I'm coming
Speaker 9: across a lot more information about woman and her relationship
Speaker 9: with the pillar, which the pillar essentially is like an
Speaker 9: axle as well pretty.
Speaker 3: Much right well, I think that clotho angle, the spinner angle,
Speaker 3: has to do with the repeating cycles of time, right
Speaker 3: And that's sort of how we get tracked in that spiderweb.
Speaker 3: Is that continual repeating, that continual going back. But I
Speaker 3: have pulled up here the spider Kachina from the Hopie
Speaker 3: and Hope mythology. Spider Kachina is a significant figure associated
Speaker 3: with creation, fertility, and wisdom, often depicted as a kachina
Speaker 3: doll carved in wood figurine adorned with feathers, cloth, and
Speaker 3: other emblement embellishments. According to the Hope legend, Spider Kachina
Speaker 3: is a manifestation of Spider Grandmother, a powerful and benevolent
Speaker 3: deity that played a crucial role in the creation of
Speaker 3: the world. Spider Grandmother is said to have brought life
Speaker 3: and order to the world. What's really interesting is that
Speaker 3: the Hopie are very, very in tune with keeping the
Speaker 3: cycles of tradition, so they'll have like eight month long
Speaker 3: rituals that people can come see at the very end,
Speaker 3: and I have a special connection to the Hope. Back
Speaker 3: in two thousand and one, me and my mom went
Speaker 3: out to Arizona to actually see older ribe. The oldest
Speaker 3: city in the United States, over eight hundred years old,
Speaker 3: continuously lived in right now basically a trailer park. They
Speaker 3: moved all their trailers up.
Speaker 1: On this.
Speaker 3: Butte and on top of this butte, this is where
Speaker 3: the oldest city existed. So they have a bunch of
Speaker 3: hogans outside of the buttes, but they have to maintain
Speaker 3: their ritual presence there because that's how they maintain their
Speaker 3: connection to their gods. So when me and my mom
Speaker 3: went there, it was in January, and in January there's
Speaker 3: not much tourism out there. But when we showed up,
Speaker 3: they welcomed us in like family, and we actually got
Speaker 3: to see a naming ceremony for one of the babies
Speaker 3: that was just born because we were there to get
Speaker 3: a raven Kachina and so, you know, they bring us
Speaker 3: into their home, they feed us beaky bread and beans,
Speaker 3: and like, I've never met these people in my life,
Speaker 3: and you know, they're treating me like family. So it
Speaker 3: was a magnificent experience.
Speaker 7: Nice. Nice, Yeah, I bet hey headless.
Speaker 9: You're pretty knowledgeable with with Greek mythology, right, A little
Speaker 9: bit is Arakney, do you do you know much about
Speaker 9: that specific myth and and her contest with Athena not
Speaker 9: at all.
Speaker 3: Let me know what it is.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I do know a little bit about that, but
Speaker 4: you go ahead, go ahead, Maria.
Speaker 7: Okay, right on.
Speaker 9: Yeah, So, I mean I don't know too too much,
Speaker 9: but I just reread like several accounts of it, just
Speaker 9: like really quick summaries of what the deal is, looking
Speaker 9: into the spider thing, and so.
Speaker 7: They had the right exactly right. Yeah.
Speaker 9: So Arakney was a young woman and she was an
Speaker 9: excellent spinner, and so she created tapestries that were beautiful,
Speaker 9: and basically she challenged Athena to a spinning contest. And
Speaker 9: one of the versions that I read was that they
Speaker 9: both created this tapestry and it was declared that they
Speaker 9: were equal and that it was essentially like a tie, and.
Speaker 4: So Athena could find no flaws in her weaving. Wow,
Speaker 4: she got enraged, so but yeah, go ahead.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 11: And so.
Speaker 9: Basically the fact that she didn't win and that it
Speaker 9: was a tie completely like was devastating to her. So
Speaker 9: she actually hung herself which is really interesting given you know,
Speaker 9: all of this stuff, and so I mean, given the
Speaker 9: nature of the spider and what it does, and so
Speaker 9: apparently she was basically preserved in the constellation Aracney, which
Speaker 9: I don't have any books that actually acknowledged this constellation,
Speaker 9: by the way, I just looked, and for some reason
Speaker 9: they're not there.
Speaker 1: And that.
Speaker 3: Out of our eighty eight constellations, only thirty five are Greek,
Speaker 3: so the vast majority were later but the Greeks actually
Speaker 3: had like one hundred and thirty five constellation and so
Speaker 3: we don't really have access to a lot of that
Speaker 3: knowledge because we don't go back to the Greek astrological comparison.
Speaker 3: But I think when it comes to a Rackney, it
Speaker 3: really has a lot to do with the idea of fate.
Speaker 3: And I think it was Athena that challenged a Rackney
Speaker 3: because a Rackney boasted much better she was.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and that original tale comes from Ovid's metamorphosis.
Speaker 9: Right, yeah, Yeah, So I think that's really interesting too.
Speaker 7: So let me see here real quick.
Speaker 6: Jinn have something to say.
Speaker 8: I saw him on Mute as Mike, I didn't I
Speaker 8: didn't know if he was trying to say something before that.
Speaker 12: Oh yeah, sure, thanks man.
Speaker 3: Thanks No.
Speaker 12: I want to say, Mario, in contric astrology like this,
Speaker 12: what you're saying is opposite a fucus or a rockney
Speaker 12: is actually considered an invisible constellation and it is considered
Speaker 12: part of the pleiades can that are part of the matrakas.
Speaker 12: But it's empty. She is empty. So she is eight,
Speaker 12: like she's eight limbed, And I just posted a picture.
Speaker 12: Nick just retweeted it on the rejects things so people
Speaker 12: can go look on the feed, so people can look
Speaker 12: at it. But she's really nine. She's not really eight
Speaker 12: because she always has a concert. There's always the implication
Speaker 12: of a concert in all contract images, whether they are
Speaker 12: depicted or not. Now, if I'll teach people just a
Speaker 12: little trick to looking at iconography. If they hold a
Speaker 12: trident and the trident has the prongs closed, that means
Speaker 12: that usually that the consort is implied. If the prongs
Speaker 12: are open, that means they are receptive to receiving the
Speaker 12: lightning strike or the consciousness of the concert. So you
Speaker 12: can see that there's always an implication. And it's interesting
Speaker 12: because in the Mahaviga system, Matongi, who is the goddess
Speaker 12: that I'm referring to. She plays a sea tar, and
Speaker 12: it's considered that she controls the rajas, thea or the
Speaker 12: carnatic sort of compositions of the old of South India
Speaker 12: that were adopted into these kind of Vedic ritual grammars.
Speaker 12: So she would sort of rearrange the grammars. And even
Speaker 12: in her story, she's described as a chandali as an
Speaker 12: out cased as a tribal goddess, meaning that she is
Speaker 12: part of the pleats, but she's actually not. She's actually
Speaker 12: from outside of the civilization. She's outside of the container
Speaker 12: of who they are. So it's something that it exists
Speaker 12: in a liminal space. It's more of a reflection of
Speaker 12: what happens at the sun, and that that she gathers
Speaker 12: all the ritual grammar, maybe you could say the ritual
Speaker 12: grammar of mercury, or maybe you could say the ritual
Speaker 12: grammar of like a higher source, and she puts it
Speaker 12: together and that is the song she plays, and then
Speaker 12: that is what creates like the maya or the illusion
Speaker 12: around us.
Speaker 3: So when it comes to the citar, it's like closing
Speaker 3: and opening. So that's that's what I feel when you're
Speaker 3: talking about that, it's like the waves of it itself.
Speaker 3: It goes from so far out to so far in
Speaker 3: within one single stroke of the citar that I really
Speaker 3: feel that.
Speaker 9: Jin what you were saying about the console. I don't
Speaker 9: know if this is related to it. But whenever I
Speaker 9: think of any number, you know, if I'm thinking of
Speaker 9: the three, I think of a triangle. If I'm thinking
Speaker 9: of the four, I think of the square. Right, the
Speaker 9: hidden console is always that center point right. So with
Speaker 9: any number, every number has a relationship with that next
Speaker 9: additional step, that next number right. So the eight has
Speaker 9: a relationship with the nine, nine, with ten, you know,
Speaker 9: et cetera, et cetera. Is that kind of related to
Speaker 9: what you're saying, by chance?
Speaker 12: Absolutely, And I think it even relates to your point
Speaker 12: about the four and the eight. Sorry, I doul a
Speaker 12: little numerology the thirteen and the eight eight, but in
Speaker 12: the more western way. So because eight is hod it's
Speaker 12: the eighth sphere, and then thirteen has a secret meaning
Speaker 12: where it's just said, but it's the three plus one.
Speaker 12: So fire, earth and water in synthesis produces the secret
Speaker 12: fourth thing, which is air. But this is also related
Speaker 12: to vadra, lightning or perception, So there's an inter relationship.
Speaker 12: And even what Headless said about the naming of things,
Speaker 12: that's a property of hode, Like you would name something,
Speaker 12: call something into reality, into form with its proper true
Speaker 12: name if you want to say it like that, and so,
Speaker 12: but it would be reflected or bounced off the ocean
Speaker 12: that is said or is Jupiter, So that goes into
Speaker 12: really a dialectical relationship with the way the numbers work.
Speaker 12: And also yes, definitely the concert. And I was thinking
Speaker 12: it's so interesting because I'm working on an eon of
Speaker 12: the Daughter series right now and just thinking about like
Speaker 12: you're saying, there's a lot of mother energy, and I
Speaker 12: think for me, I think of it and as more
Speaker 12: of a daughter energy. But I think it's like a
Speaker 12: very interesting formulation, like because they are the same in
Speaker 12: some ways, but then they also have important distinctions. So
Speaker 12: I think that's very interesting and corollary, well.
Speaker 3: When you're talking about the naming, naming goes into the
Speaker 3: cloth ough angle. This is the spinning. When you're naming something,
Speaker 3: you're sort of spreading it out and opening it up
Speaker 3: because then you have the access to it. And like
Speaker 3: he was saying, it's the naming of the thing is
Speaker 3: what spins and weaves the universe. So I think that
Speaker 3: goes into the deeper meetings behind some of that sympathetic magic.
Speaker 13: It's going to interject really quickly speaking of sympathetic magic,
Speaker 13: can you hear me? Okay? So most of the meso
Speaker 13: American natives, they also practiced sympathetic or emititive magic, or
Speaker 13: whatever they saw they worshiped her, they put into practice,
Speaker 13: into rituals or whatever. And it seems like whatever they
Speaker 13: feared was a god to them, right, because whatever was
Speaker 13: I guess some strife or whatever, that was punishment by
Speaker 13: the gods, so to speak. But however, when you talk
Speaker 13: about the spider within like Aztec culture, you see the
Speaker 13: naming of the Great Goddess being associated with the spider,
Speaker 13: and so that from what I understand, is she was
Speaker 13: associated with darkness and the underworld. But when you say, oh,
Speaker 13: she was associated with darkness in the underworld, it was
Speaker 13: mainly they were attributing her to birth because within the
Speaker 13: underworld they had nine levels and it was supposed to
Speaker 13: represent the nine months of gestation, so anything below was
Speaker 13: to bring forth, and the earth itself was mother, and
Speaker 13: so whatever came forth, whether it was coming out of
Speaker 13: the earth or out of a cave or whatever, they
Speaker 13: associated that with birth, mother giving and so forth, and
Speaker 13: so that's why they considered or have a lot of
Speaker 13: the depictions of the Great Goddess being associated from what
Speaker 13: I read with spiders, and I think, like her shield
Speaker 13: has webs on it and stuff like that, So I
Speaker 13: do remember that. And then so that you know, the
Speaker 13: Spanish kind of documented that when they first arrived in
Speaker 13: Mexico around fifteen twenties or something, and then later I
Speaker 13: think it was fifteen thirties in Peru. You start to
Speaker 13: see the or the report of the Nosca lines right,
Speaker 13: and you see the line the big from up above.
Speaker 13: You can see the lining within that area of Peru,
Speaker 13: and you see a spider being associated with a lot
Speaker 13: of the other morephalllogies that were carved into the side
Speaker 13: of cliffs. So yeah, it was it was a big
Speaker 13: deal even to the natives of Latin America or meso America,
Speaker 13: South America too.
Speaker 3: Absolutely.
Speaker 12: I want to just jump off of what Lisa has said,
Speaker 12: which was so great, which was about the Mother and darkness,
Speaker 12: because I think you see this a lot in TNTRA,
Speaker 12: especially like people's misperceptions of like what that means. And
Speaker 12: I think Lisa's right on where she's saying, it's about birth,
Speaker 12: it's about the it's the birth canal, it's that it's
Speaker 12: the it's the outer darkness sort of that you first perceive,
Speaker 12: but it's not really darkness because there is light in
Speaker 12: the womb, and there is a sort of luminescence that
Speaker 12: is within the body, like a bioluminescence that the I
Speaker 12: think the baby even sees. So, but when they come
Speaker 12: into the artificial light, if you're having it specifically I'm
Speaker 12: thinking in a hospital, then that is really the you know,
Speaker 12: you're you're piercing the veil kind of. So yeah, I
Speaker 12: think that her association with darkness is an to know mean,
Speaker 12: And I think this is true in Buddhism in the
Speaker 12: sense that she is very much like connected to the
Speaker 12: Astarte or Lilith myth. But she's Antinomian only in the
Speaker 12: way that she's completely nondual, Like she's completely she both
Speaker 12: accepts and rejects form, but it's sort of neither nor
Speaker 12: rather than she's not in an extreme. So she is
Speaker 12: the one who said the first words or spoke the sound,
Speaker 12: but it's called the sound without view, meaning that it
Speaker 12: doesn't have like it's not contained by klipa. It's not
Speaker 12: contained by askonda is what we would call it. It's
Speaker 12: there's no aggregation around it. So it's just like a
Speaker 12: howling wolf or a howling or whistling sometimes is described
Speaker 12: as whistling. So it's not a word as we would understand,
Speaker 12: it's it's it's a sound. And that's sort of the
Speaker 12: reverberation you could say, even of the heartbeat in the womb.
Speaker 12: There's like that sound and maybe that's what that even
Speaker 12: is referring to.
Speaker 3: Well, there's something there's something you owe me in about,
Speaker 3: you know, ambush predators, right, I mean, there's it's like
Speaker 3: you wait for them to be attracted to your your
Speaker 3: flame or your your your source of light, and then
Speaker 3: you catch the prey.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 3: It's and if you think about this Grandmother imagery, it's
Speaker 3: like you have to be caught in form so that
Speaker 3: you can experience this life. And so the web or
Speaker 3: the weaving is sort of like the basis of all
Speaker 3: material plane things, you know. I mean that's that's a
Speaker 3: very gnostic view of things. But that's pretty accurate.
Speaker 13: I was going to say if Wimer the commentary, Yes,
Speaker 13: thank you for highlighting that magic. Yes, that is absolutely correct.
Speaker 13: The spider Woman of the d Wakan pre dates the
Speaker 13: Great Goddess of the Aztecs, and I believe she leads
Speaker 13: back into the toll Tech and even before them the
Speaker 13: ol Macs as well. So you're talking about one hundred BC.
Speaker 13: You know, that's a long long time ago, and most
Speaker 13: of these codses that they've read through or whatever have
Speaker 13: that indication in there. So yeah, thank you very much
Speaker 13: for reminding me about that.
Speaker 9: Jin What were you saying regarding maybe the whistle or
Speaker 9: screech or a howl or something like that. It's more primal, right,
Speaker 9: that's the idea. Yeah, it's the primal sound. It's the
Speaker 9: primal sound.
Speaker 12: It's not the word. But in one way of thinking,
Speaker 12: her daughter or her great granddaughter, she is the one
Speaker 12: who create forms the word. So it's like the third cause. Nick,
Speaker 12: Robbie and I actually spoke about this the other day.
Speaker 12: So I'm sorry, guys, but the word is considered to
Speaker 12: be sort of the third or the fourth cause, depending
Speaker 12: on how you understand the ordering. So yeah, her is
Speaker 12: just the sound that penetrates the outer darkness. It comes
Speaker 12: down forms material reality. But like Buddhism is narcissism, especially
Speaker 12: like contract Buddha buddhasm. But it's not gnostic and there's
Speaker 12: no due. It's non it's non dual, there's no we.
Speaker 12: We we embrace that. There's an idea of the carnal
Speaker 12: ground and the garden. At the same time, it's just
Speaker 12: how you perceive of it, or you how you view it.
Speaker 12: So it's it's really about perspective rather than like being
Speaker 12: in a fixed way of understanding.
Speaker 7: Mmmm.
Speaker 3: Either you're caught in the net or you caught the
Speaker 3: net one of the two.
Speaker 8: One thing I do find interesting. I just want to
Speaker 8: mention real quick that you brought it up and it
Speaker 8: just popped into my head. With the howling and the wolf.
Speaker 8: I'm just wondering, like even thinking about like the howl
Speaker 8: and stuff. I mean, you hear musicians say it, and
Speaker 8: like I get it, but I also think there's like
Speaker 8: doesn't necessarily mean you need breaks, but like you know,
Speaker 8: you'll say, like you know, if it wasn't for the
Speaker 8: space between notes, that'd be no music, you know, So
Speaker 8: that how there's actually not much space. So like, in
Speaker 8: a sense to me, it's actually more free of form
Speaker 8: because it's just one long sound without anything breaking it
Speaker 8: up and changing, you know. So I even wonder if
Speaker 8: that's like something something to think about.
Speaker 12: Yeah, I agree with what Nick just said. It was
Speaker 12: quite deep and like she is persuading all space. That's
Speaker 12: one of her like appitats like she is the primordial
Speaker 12: space that exists within. So just like what Nick said,
Speaker 12: it's like it's continuous, it's ongoing, there's it fills.
Speaker 3: Everything right right stop the vibration, the monochord.
Speaker 9: Speaking of sounds and even silence and stuff like that.
Speaker 9: One of the things that I think is really interesting
Speaker 9: in older tarot decks, if you look at the major arcana,
Speaker 9: the death card is the only card that does not
Speaker 9: have a title.
Speaker 7: It doesn't have a name.
Speaker 9: And this is actually related to the scorpion because there
Speaker 9: are some cultures where like the folk sort of like
Speaker 9: idea was that you did not actually say the scorpions name,
Speaker 9: that it was an animal that you left unnamed, because
Speaker 9: they thought that if you named it, if you actually
Speaker 9: said scorpion, that you're basically invoking death something along those lines,
Speaker 9: And so you don't say death's name, because otherwise it's
Speaker 9: going to come for a visit, and you don't say
Speaker 9: the scorpions name as well. And these two things are
Speaker 9: so interlocked with each other that I think that's an
Speaker 9: interesting correspondence. So there's that whole side of things too,
Speaker 9: which I think is intriguing and then also too related
Speaker 9: to just kind of more like folky stuff that has
Speaker 9: been like around for such a long time. But I
Speaker 9: read in one of my books that there are genital
Speaker 9: mutilation rituals where the glitterists would be cut or snipped,
Speaker 9: and then the blood that comes from that wound was
Speaker 9: referred to as the scorpion's venom, and so they made
Speaker 9: a direct link with the square orpian's venom. And then
Speaker 9: that blood similarly the exact same thing with circumcision rituals
Speaker 9: as well, referring to it as scorpion venom. And so
Speaker 9: this is something that's been seen at least in a
Speaker 9: couple of different cultures my understanding from what I recall
Speaker 9: that it was some African tribes.
Speaker 7: We're doing that.
Speaker 9: So just to show you the relationship of how deep
Speaker 9: the scorpionic weave is, you know, once again with the
Speaker 9: genitals and sex and everything else.
Speaker 7: It goes way back.
Speaker 3: Well, Lisa, what about the recurve of the coccyx, right,
Speaker 3: it comes back in sort of like a scorpion stinging itself.
Speaker 13: Yeah, on the on the latter part of them. What
Speaker 13: I was going to say about the scorpion venom. It's
Speaker 13: it's interesting that you say that because usually most of
Speaker 13: the sensory part of the genitalia is predominantly neurological. Right,
Speaker 13: it doesn't it doesn't show to have a lot of
Speaker 13: capillary systems in terms of bleeding, but a lot of
Speaker 13: capillary systems for the sake of sensory right. And so
Speaker 13: if you look at the venom of scorpions, scorpion venom
Speaker 13: is neurotoxic. It is not hemotoxic. And so it's interesting
Speaker 13: that they wouldn't say it's snake venom, but it's scorpion venom,
Speaker 13: whereas I don't I'm not very familiar with all of
Speaker 13: the snakes of Africa, because you said that the ritual
Speaker 13: was practice in Africa. But I do know at least
Speaker 13: in the Americas, you do have more hemotoxic venom than
Speaker 13: you do neurotoxic. Not to say it's not here, but
Speaker 13: in terms of Africa, it would be interesting that they
Speaker 13: made the distinction between scorpions and not snake.
Speaker 3: Well, hemotoxic would be more like vipers, right, it depends.
Speaker 13: It depends which viper. Yeah, how they use it because
Speaker 13: I cobras are neurotoxic, snakes are hemotoxic. You do have
Speaker 13: girl snakes that are neurotoxic, and then you do have
Speaker 13: which is the other ones? Jen I'm running. I think
Speaker 13: there's some in India that are mainly neurotoxic, but you
Speaker 13: do have some hemotoxic. Most of your mamas are neurotoxic.
Speaker 12: Yeah, mamas are definitely neuroto I think mamas actually have
Speaker 12: all three. Okay, they're just like super like they're just
Speaker 12: one of those crazy venom ones all correctly.
Speaker 3: Well, these are all independently developed venoms too as well,
Speaker 3: which is really interesting about snakes. Yeah, what about the
Speaker 3: sea snake? What's the sea snake? Because that's I think
Speaker 3: that's the key that sea.
Speaker 13: Crops majority of those are neurotoxic.
Speaker 3: There you go, that would make sense.
Speaker 13: I believe neurotoxic. Like I said, neurotoxic is much more
Speaker 13: popular on the older world versus the New World. Is
Speaker 13: more humotoxic. I again, I'm very fluent in my in
Speaker 13: my reptiles. I need to brush upon that. But yeah,
Speaker 13: from what I remember, do.
Speaker 3: You know why it's called herpetology. When herpes is left untreated,
Speaker 3: it looks like snakes as it erupts from the skin.
Speaker 3: Who so it makes the little snakes going all through it.
Speaker 3: So herpes and herpetology goes, you know, back to the
Speaker 3: same origins.
Speaker 12: Well, all for this headless is that that is not
Speaker 12: considered a snake disease in Chinese medicine, but it is
Speaker 12: considered a scorpion medicine because of the orientation of the boil.
Speaker 12: So like that would be a yang. If you have
Speaker 12: an uprising inflammation, that would actually be like a more
Speaker 12: associated with scorpions or centipedes, and so you there's an
Speaker 12: idea that you use like to treat like so in
Speaker 12: some of those formulas they will include like pulverized and
Speaker 12: dried scorpion or pulverized and dried snake, But snake diseases
Speaker 12: are more of like rough hewn like psoriasis is a
Speaker 12: snake disease. So I haven't studied enough of the Native American.
Speaker 11: Animal classifications, but there is that does also exist in
Speaker 11: Native American like herbal medicine and Dan Mormon's book he
Speaker 11: touches on it a little bit, So that would be
Speaker 11: interesting for someone like I know a few of them,
Speaker 11: but the snake ones I'm not familiar with.
Speaker 12: So it would be interesting to sort of look at
Speaker 12: that and see if there's a corollary between like venom
Speaker 12: remedies as well as the animal itself.
Speaker 13: I do know, like I spent some time with an
Speaker 13: Amazonian shaman in Peru, and they also believe in that
Speaker 13: that the disease resembles the actual animal that cures it.
Speaker 13: So I mean he even showed us, like, you know,
Speaker 13: the sting of this bark or bulble and I'm sorry,
Speaker 13: the sting or the bite of this snake. And he
Speaker 13: held out, you know, dead snake. You know, they had
Speaker 13: the checkerboard or whatever of it. He's like, it's cured
Speaker 13: by this bark, and then he placed the bark right
Speaker 13: next to the actual snake and the two corresponded, and
Speaker 13: so it you know that. I think you hear the
Speaker 13: one about the kidney breaking up, kidney stones or whatever,
Speaker 13: and they don't have anything like some aliament with kidney stones,
Speaker 13: but yet they already knew that these beans helped with
Speaker 13: kidney stones. So stuff like that that it looks similar
Speaker 13: to what the aliment was. So yes, even in me,
Speaker 13: at least the natives of from Mexico on town.
Speaker 5: There's the There's a Bible quote too, Luke ten nineteen
Speaker 5: that really brings these two.
Speaker 10: Jeez together.
Speaker 5: And it reads almost like a healing blessing that I
Speaker 5: give unto you power to tread on serpents and squirret
Speaker 5: and all and over all the power of the enemy,
Speaker 5: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.
Speaker 10: So it has that so that.
Speaker 13: That's so touch because even the shaman himself he said
Speaker 13: two things. He said, God is very kind to nate
Speaker 13: the naive mind. And then he said everything on earth
Speaker 13: God has placed for the purpose of curing so beautiful.
Speaker 13: Very yeah, it was very It correlates very well.
Speaker 10: Exactly correlates.
Speaker 5: I hate to leave early, but I have to depart
Speaker 5: and take some care of some responsibilities and honor to
Speaker 5: be here with you guys, and I apoloize. Thanks, I'm
Speaker 5: gonna I'm gonna continue listening as I take care of
Speaker 5: my stuff.
Speaker 10: So good night, everybody. Apologies, you're good, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 4: Now, while we're on the subject of the Bible, when
Speaker 4: you look at when Noah went into the arc, it
Speaker 4: was in the sign of scorpion, and then it was
Speaker 4: the great dying or the passing over into the new system.
Speaker 4: And then also when Jesus as far as Judas, the
Speaker 4: kiss of Judas that was also said to happen when
Speaker 4: Scorpio was in the sky, and the sting of the scorpio,
Speaker 4: it is that you get that kiss. Look that kiss
Speaker 4: type pattern.
Speaker 9: So excellent, No, exactly, yeah, yeah, And deceivers and traders
Speaker 9: and stuff are are associated with the scorpions and scorpionic things.
Speaker 7: The whole thing with.
Speaker 9: You know, the cure for different ailments having like a
Speaker 9: symbolic relationship with whatever it is you're talking about. Some
Speaker 9: people refer to that you might already know this, but
Speaker 9: for the audience as doctrine of signatures, and so there's
Speaker 9: all sorts of amazing examples out there. So it's definitely
Speaker 9: the real deal for sure. One of the things regarding
Speaker 9: venom and least I'd love to hear your opinion about this,
Speaker 9: But in my symbolic reference books, there's so many examples
Speaker 9: that I have where they say that back in the day,
Speaker 9: people used to create a ring of fire around a
Speaker 9: scorpion and the scorpion would sting itself to death. Now
Speaker 9: I read this many times, and I've actually made posts
Speaker 9: about this, like on my Instagram and things like that,
Speaker 9: and people confirmed and have said, hey, I've seen this
Speaker 9: for myself.
Speaker 7: My grandmother used to do this when I was a kid.
Speaker 9: I used to do this people from like you know,
Speaker 9: Mexico and like Central America and stuff like that, And
Speaker 9: I have videos. I've found videos of this happening, not
Speaker 9: with fire, but with a container, like a glass bowl
Speaker 9: or something like that, and the scorpion is stinging itself.
Speaker 9: Yet every single mainstream source online, every single source online,
Speaker 9: says that this is impossible. It doesn't happen. This is
Speaker 9: only like sort of like urban legend type stuff or
Speaker 9: folklore or something like that. And people have had different
Speaker 9: things to say. They've said, well, if it's surrounded by fire,
Speaker 9: it's actually so hot that it's kind of like seizing
Speaker 9: because of just the temperature, and it looks like it's
Speaker 9: singing itself, but that the venom cannot hurt itself because
Speaker 9: it creates its own venom. So it's like immune to it, basically.
Speaker 9: And so I've heard different things from different people and
Speaker 9: different sort of ideas about what is maybe going on
Speaker 9: there or what isn't going on there. If you have
Speaker 9: any thoughts, I'd just love to hear it.
Speaker 13: In terms of physiologically, In terms of scientific literature, I
Speaker 13: have not seen anything, but I remember my family, my
Speaker 13: grandmother speaking about that, oh and talking about you know,
Speaker 13: the little folk whatever that in terms of singing itself.
Speaker 13: But see, I have also heard that the individual scorpion
Speaker 13: itself cannot die from its venom. However, you do have
Speaker 13: courting whenever scorpions made, and they hold each other's singers
Speaker 13: away from each other. So apparently they, you know, it
Speaker 13: is somewhat of a you know, poisonous to each other.
Speaker 13: So I don't know if it's something individual jin. I
Speaker 13: don't know if you know anything about that, but I mean,
Speaker 13: I'm pretty sure you do, but you're just saying that it.
Speaker 13: I don't recall anything. What I do know about scorpions
Speaker 13: is that they are one of the few iraqnets that
Speaker 13: has remained unchanged. People believe in the fossil record that
Speaker 13: I believe that in over five hundred million years they
Speaker 13: have not changed, and so it's one of the few
Speaker 13: racknets that has remained virtually unchanged evolutionarily speaking. And then
Speaker 13: they're exoskeleton. You can see it with UV, and I
Speaker 13: think that that is also more of I guess the
Speaker 13: defense mechanism as well. So birds obviously if they can
Speaker 13: see UV, they can spot scorpions. So that's also one
Speaker 13: of those predator prey dynamics.
Speaker 3: Well, I think that's one of the Emperor scorpion, isn't it.
Speaker 3: I believe there's two different times types that really dominate.
Speaker 3: It's the brown yellow kind and the black kind. And
Speaker 3: the black kind is the more UV reactive.
Speaker 13: I think both of them are, whereas one of them
Speaker 13: probably dominates in terms of how much fluorescence they emit.
Speaker 7: Gotcha, okay, jin go ahead.
Speaker 12: Sorry, thank you, Mario. I just want to say, and
Speaker 12: they also great job, Lisa, and I will synthesize what
Speaker 12: something Lisa said with something What Mario said is that
Speaker 12: there's this idea. So I don't know if the what
Speaker 12: you scorpion. I thank you Lisa for thinking that I
Speaker 12: am so knowledgeable about zology. I'm really not, but it's flattering. Uh,
Speaker 12: But there's there's an idea in Tantra that the scorpion
Speaker 12: represents like the the first words or or maybe the yeah,
Speaker 12: like creative and destructive words, that they both can be
Speaker 12: contained in the same sort of vessel. So when you
Speaker 12: speak them, it's sort of like speaking a scorpion into
Speaker 12: the world. So if you if you misuse the words,
Speaker 12: if you misuse the words improperly or without holding to
Speaker 12: dharmic ideas, the the idea is that the scorpions will
Speaker 12: come back and sting you, or that they will return
Speaker 12: to you, or you will be eaten by that kind
Speaker 12: of wolf slash scorpion queen that I also tweeted so
Speaker 12: people can go look. And so I think that there's
Speaker 12: an idea the oath breaker in that, and that that's
Speaker 12: the corpse she stands on, Like every dikini has a
Speaker 12: corpse that they stand on, and she stands on the
Speaker 12: oath breaker. But it's not just the it's not like
Speaker 12: an oath breaker as in like you're upholding like a
Speaker 12: secret society oath. It's it's the oath of the dharmaic
Speaker 12: rules which we're all subject to. So that's sort of
Speaker 12: the idea. It's like if you're breaking the covenant that
Speaker 12: exists with all of us then and using the words
Speaker 12: of creation or misusing them, then you will suffer the repercussion.
Speaker 12: So I think maybe there's even something in the meso
Speaker 12: American story about that, like, because there seems to be
Speaker 12: like a power of repelling negative sorcery or turning it
Speaker 12: backwards or into itself. So I definitely think that there's
Speaker 12: something there.
Speaker 3: Well, I think, on a tangent from what you just said,
Speaker 3: I think it's important to note that the scorpion has
Speaker 3: an eye on its tail, and the spiders have eight eyes,
Speaker 3: and I think that that should talk a lot about
Speaker 3: the dharmic repercussions of what you're doing, and also it
Speaker 3: should go directly over to Nick to talk about the eye,
Speaker 3: because if you think about these things in terms of
Speaker 3: the number of eyes and how they relate to one
Speaker 3: another and how they relate to the rest of the world,
Speaker 3: that's an interesting correlation, especially if you think about them
Speaker 3: as being proto brains that would grow into other things
Speaker 3: from that point, and being one of the oldest creatures
Speaker 3: of the planet and having an eye on the tail.
Speaker 6: I like that I know anything about the eye on
Speaker 6: the tail.
Speaker 7: Times logical real deal thing. They have an eye on
Speaker 7: their tail.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 7: Wow, damn, that's amazing. I've never heard that before.
Speaker 3: Well, think about it. These are the most like deadly
Speaker 3: creatures in terms of mythology. They've got to have an
Speaker 3: accurate targeting system or else they're fucked, you know, and
Speaker 3: that that's their weapon, you know, that the backbiters, and
Speaker 3: they've got to be able to sting exactly where they
Speaker 3: want to go.
Speaker 9: Wow, that's incredible. I got to look into that, man,
Speaker 9: that that really is fascinating. So one of the things
Speaker 9: related to the venom suicide sort of conversation is alchemists
Speaker 9: have associated scorpio with like the blackening or Negretto step right.
Speaker 9: And I was just reading too that apparently this concept
Speaker 9: of scorpion time was a thing for the alchemists as well,
Speaker 9: and that this was like a major sort of transformative,
Speaker 9: transformative aspect to whatever it is they were like transmuting
Speaker 9: and things like that. And so people have kind of
Speaker 9: likened this potential suicide dynamic with the scorpion of being
Speaker 9: able to change things, you know, dynamically and rapidly pretty
Speaker 9: much right on their own accord. And so I think
Speaker 9: that that's kind of an interesting sort of thread. And
Speaker 9: obviously what is death right, It's a huge change, you know,
Speaker 9: and so you're going through major, major cycle upon death,
Speaker 9: and so in that way too, I kind of see
Speaker 9: it that the scythe of death itself is not unlike
Speaker 9: the stinger of the Scorpion. And there's actually huge correspondence
Speaker 9: I see with Saturn and and kind of like father
Speaker 9: Time type figures and stuff like that with with Scorpio.
Speaker 9: So there's like interchangeability, you know, kind of between these
Speaker 9: two ideas.
Speaker 7: I would say.
Speaker 9: The other thing I was going to bring up too
Speaker 9: that I think is interesting is a lot of people
Speaker 9: have said that Virgo, Libra, and Scorpio were once considered
Speaker 9: like one huge constellation and then kind of like a sword,
Speaker 9: Libra being introduced almost split up this huge constellation to
Speaker 9: three smaller constellations, which is fascinating too, because Virgo and
Speaker 9: Scorpio both have glyphs that look like m's right, and
Speaker 9: so Virgo looks like a glyph with an M with
Speaker 9: like a fish. Some people have different opinions about what
Speaker 9: that is. To me, it's opposite Pisces. So I think
Speaker 9: there's a piss and sort of dynamic with that, it's
Speaker 9: almost like her child, you know, it's almost like Christ
Speaker 9: Virgo and Christ or something. And then with Scorpio you
Speaker 9: have the glyph with the M with the sort of
Speaker 9: like stinger or to me, it almost reminds me too.
Speaker 7: Of the arrow of Mars, the glyph for Mars.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 7: But you have these two signs and one sign, Virgo
Speaker 7: is on the light side or day side of the zodiac,
Speaker 7: and then Scorpio is on the night side of the zodiac.
Speaker 7: And what do you know, they're opposite of each other.
Speaker 9: On both sides of libra the scales, so it's almost
Speaker 9: like they weigh each other out. So it's almost like
Speaker 9: the light Mother and the Dark Mother or something along
Speaker 9: these lines.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, you nail there, because the M is one of
Speaker 3: the oldest glyphs for feminine energy.
Speaker 9: Yep, absolutely, mom, right, mama, so the waters, yes, exactly right. Yeah,
Speaker 9: so I've heard two M. I don't know if it's
Speaker 9: exclusively the only sort of letter phonetically, I think so
Speaker 9: where it's more internal mmm. You know, it's almost more
Speaker 9: receptive in and of itself, right, versus you know a
Speaker 9: lot of other sounds more projective, more masculine.
Speaker 12: Mem is the thirteenth letter of these album.
Speaker 9: That's right there you go, and that's the leak that
Speaker 9: corresponds with also the death card, the thirteenth card. So yeah, exactly,
Speaker 9: there's a hole that thirteen weave is strong.
Speaker 4: Well in the with the thirteens, you know, you have
Speaker 4: going back to Jesus in the twelve Disciples, you have Washington,
Speaker 4: d C. With the thirteen Colonies. You have this perpetual
Speaker 4: idea of death and rebirth based around the number thirteen.
Speaker 7: Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 9: And then I think of the American Eagle, like this
Speaker 9: is one of the expressions of Scorpio as the eagle. Yeah, right,
Speaker 9: And so that to me in and of itself is
Speaker 9: kind of intriguing too. Right, So you look on the
Speaker 9: dollar bill or the seal of the US thirteen arrows,
Speaker 9: thirteen stars, thirteen olives, and thirteen leaves, and then literally
Speaker 9: that eagle right there emblematic of Scorpio potentially.
Speaker 3: Well, I think there's a lot of yin yang energy
Speaker 3: and a lot of different kinds of polarities when it
Speaker 3: comes to Scorpio and eagles, sky and earth, because there
Speaker 3: is definitely an earthy feel to both spiders and scorpions
Speaker 3: like it's very very much in form in matter. They
Speaker 3: have exoskeletons, you know, And I think that that aspect
Speaker 3: is really kind of one of the things people don't
Speaker 3: want to look at in their own shadow is going
Speaker 3: to be about how they create their webs, how they
Speaker 3: have their influence, and also who they're fighting the most,
Speaker 3: because if you've noticed, I think a lot of narcissistic
Speaker 3: people always hurt the people closest to them, you know,
Speaker 3: and that's not an accident. That goes back to very
Speaker 3: very deep psychology. And another aspect would be the idea
Speaker 3: that spiders have pets. I don't know if you guys
Speaker 3: have seen these videos, but some spiders will actually have
Speaker 3: pets from other species and they'll feed them and they'll
Speaker 3: take care of them, and they'll you know, treat them right.
Speaker 3: What would happen in human evolution if giant spiders made
Speaker 3: humans their pets.
Speaker 7: I love that, man, I've never heard that, the spider
Speaker 7: pet thing. I'm gonna look into that too.
Speaker 13: I will say a friend of mine had a tarantula
Speaker 13: and he kept like a little spiny, prickly pair and
Speaker 13: you know, like a little I don't know what you
Speaker 13: call just a cactus or whatever spines and he would
Speaker 13: feed the tarantula, and the tarantula would place his prey
Speaker 13: on the spines almost like a cupboard. So I remember
Speaker 13: witnessing that behavior of a tarantula and you're thinking, wow,
Speaker 13: that's that's that's a lot of planning on that. But
Speaker 13: I was going to say headless to your point about
Speaker 13: the eye on the singer. I'd never heard of that,
Speaker 13: so I looked it up really quick, and apparently the
Speaker 13: entire skin of the scorpion is a photo is a
Speaker 13: photoreceptor where it has many photoreceptors on the skin, and
Speaker 13: it is referred to as the universal eye.
Speaker 3: Wow, shit, I'm not think about horseshoe crabs. Horshoe have
Speaker 3: proto eyes on the outside of their shells, and also
Speaker 3: that goes back into the crab. You know, they shed
Speaker 3: their shells, so there has to be some sort of
Speaker 3: ocular component to them.
Speaker 13: Yeah, which is a photoceptor, which is the retina. You
Speaker 13: know what where is where the photoceptors reside in the
Speaker 13: retina majority of them. And then you said the horseshoe crabs,
Speaker 13: some scorpions and some spiders do not contain hemolytic type properties.
Speaker 13: They contain more of a cyano or like sano hemolytic
Speaker 13: whatever the what is it the copper based blood that
Speaker 13: horse crab have, right.
Speaker 3: They also OCTOPI.
Speaker 12: That sorry at least I didn't mean you. But the
Speaker 12: color is really significant, I think, and that you're saying
Speaker 12: the ciani like the the I'm calling it the fluids.
Speaker 12: So those biological fluids like that matches perfectly with like
Speaker 12: the colors that you would see dripping down if you
Speaker 12: think of cabala like your sewed, it's that dark purple
Speaker 12: almost like very And then copper is obviously very closely
Speaker 12: related to net SoC or venus. So yeah, you have
Speaker 12: like some really interesting yeah.
Speaker 13: And then you have a lot of guanning or guan
Speaker 13: you know, like in bats, but you have a lot
Speaker 13: of guanning being excreted in their excrement as well.
Speaker 10: I do.
Speaker 13: I remember them shining fluorescent or UV light on the
Speaker 13: droppings of scorpions, and so they do glow as well.
Speaker 13: So you have a lot of very alien like properties
Speaker 13: I think, in my opinion of these scorpions, and considering
Speaker 13: that they were also worshiped by the natives in Mexico
Speaker 13: as well as all the way into Central and South
Speaker 13: America for a really long time.
Speaker 3: Well, think about the structure of the horseship crab with
Speaker 3: that law long spine that comes out of its back
Speaker 3: end that could curve up, you know, into that scorpion
Speaker 3: like uh massage, and then you know, everything wants to
Speaker 3: become a crab for some reason. So you've got Scianus
Speaker 3: and which is just you know, all these different species
Speaker 3: end up becoming sort of this crab idea. So there's
Speaker 3: there's a really interesting combination between you know, these arachnids
Speaker 3: and these crab like beings and they all sort of
Speaker 3: come from the same sort of route and they're just
Speaker 3: branching off and coming back into one another over millions
Speaker 3: and millions of years.
Speaker 10: Wow, the.
Speaker 7: I thing, man, that that is.
Speaker 9: That's so interesting, dude, That's one of the more interesting
Speaker 9: facts I've heard in a little while actually.
Speaker 8: Thinking about you know, how many how many times you
Speaker 8: see crabs and lobsters using occultism, then.
Speaker 6: If that goes back to any of that, that's just weird.
Speaker 7: Yeah, it is.
Speaker 6: Have you still one that for a minute?
Speaker 4: And well, I was also going to say the spiders
Speaker 4: they've also found that the exoskeleton actually allows them to
Speaker 4: survive the void of space, so there is some theory
Speaker 4: that they've actually traveled between worlds.
Speaker 13: You know, that's interesting.
Speaker 9: Yeah, I think the alien thing is really relevant, actually, Lisa,
Speaker 9: you know, it makes total sense.
Speaker 3: You know the crossover, you know it is it's kitan.
Speaker 3: Kitin makes up the outside of a crab, and it
Speaker 3: also makes the outside of a mushroom. Mushrooms have kitan
Speaker 3: on the outside of them. And so what they talk
Speaker 3: about is these spores from mushrooms being spread throughout the universe,
Speaker 3: and that is like the seed of life. As they
Speaker 3: rotate in the sun's heat, they'll actually start to spin
Speaker 3: and then they'll spin throughout the entire universe and spread
Speaker 3: kitan throughout everything. So you've got insects made of kiten,
Speaker 3: We've got fingernails that are very very close to kitan.
Speaker 3: And then the bark of a tree, as we were
Speaker 3: talking about with these different venoms earlier, is also made
Speaker 3: out of a kitan like substance, which is you know this,
Speaker 3: what's it called tree bark? What's it made out of?
Speaker 3: It's the same thing as cardboard, I forgot, but they
Speaker 3: put it in all these supplements, right, They cellulars cellulose
Speaker 3: kitan and our fingernails are, you know, like all one
Speaker 3: molecule off from one another. It's so close it's ridiculous.
Speaker 12: I just wanted to add something that Lisa said that
Speaker 12: was really interesting that I forgot. I think also Headless
Speaker 12: said something about it is that scorpions are not even
Speaker 12: though yes, I know in Western astrology it is more
Speaker 12: associated with the earth element, but really they're associated with
Speaker 12: the sky element, so like a vadra or fire. That's
Speaker 12: more of a tondric idea is that they're they it's
Speaker 12: and fire is the element of transmutation, so things must
Speaker 12: pass through to come into form. So it's like a
Speaker 12: pre eminent destruction I think is a way to describe it,
Speaker 12: Like something has to be destroyed or die before it
Speaker 12: can appear in.
Speaker 13: Our world, you know. And what you're saying is very
Speaker 13: correlative correlative because they can detect UV light. They are
Speaker 13: mainly associated with being night creatures, right, they are nocturnal
Speaker 13: whatever because you can detect or they can see UV
Speaker 13: and better scene at night. But in I believe it's
Speaker 13: the earlier the Oulmes and the and the toll text.
Speaker 13: They worship the scorpion as being a midnight sacrifice or
Speaker 13: used in midnight sacrifices. So it's interesting that you said
Speaker 13: another you know, associated with with that. And then scorpions
Speaker 13: are obviously associated with old desert or dry or equatorial
Speaker 13: type habitats. You do not find many in the latter
Speaker 13: parts of the pole like towards the poles, there's none
Speaker 13: in it, but you do see predominance around the equatorial
Speaker 13: habitats than you do in you know, extreme latitudes.
Speaker 12: The point about the dryness, I think is really interesting
Speaker 12: if you look at it from more maybe not o
Speaker 12: fight gnostic, but maybe just a broader gnostic cosmology and
Speaker 12: the idea of the Barbello and the sort of dried
Speaker 12: out grandmother emanator husk like we have very similar to
Speaker 12: what we have in Buddhism. So I think that's corollary.
Speaker 12: I think that it's like a it's the spent seeds,
Speaker 12: so all they can be is a little dry. They
Speaker 12: can't be it can be replenished, but it's it requires,
Speaker 12: as I said, destruction before it can really be transformed.
Speaker 3: Mantis shrimp that goes into the eye to because mantis
Speaker 3: shrimp have all those different kinds of cones and rods
Speaker 3: that can pick up so many different colors that are
Speaker 3: almost unimaginable to human beings.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and they're vicious. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 7: The the midnight sacrifice thing is so interesting to me.
Speaker 7: I've heard that.
Speaker 9: In occultism that sometimes midnight is a reference to essentially
Speaker 9: the pole, the world axis, polar northern symbolism, And so
Speaker 9: when people have referenced a midnight sun as an example
Speaker 9: that this is actually it's more of a like a
Speaker 9: black sun, sort of dynamic or something along these lines.
Speaker 9: So I just thought I would throw that out there.
Speaker 9: I don't know if that's what they had intended or whatever.
Speaker 13: You know, you're talking about, you know, midnight and all
Speaker 13: of that. And I think Nick and I have talked
Speaker 13: about potentially one day, talking about covering the different charges
Speaker 13: of the pineal associated with morning, noon, evening, and midnight.
Speaker 13: And I believe in facing different directions or whatever, and
Speaker 13: I believe it is during a full moon at midnight
Speaker 13: that you face north. And there is some sort of
Speaker 13: literature talking about how you can charge your pioneal by
Speaker 13: facing north into the moon's light, because a light from
Speaker 13: the moon itself does feed into the pineal. From a
Speaker 13: biological standpoint, and charging. So that's that's very interesting to
Speaker 13: talk about how you have almost a midnight sacrifice and
Speaker 13: then you have that association with pineal and then again
Speaker 13: scorpio scort scorpions their exoskeleton have photoreceptors, and the pineal
Speaker 13: itself they have discovered, have photo themselves.
Speaker 3: Well, right, when you think about it, I think, as
Speaker 3: we've sort of covered these emanations and evolutions, you got
Speaker 3: to think of the care pace or the outside shell
Speaker 3: as being related to the aura. And so there is
Speaker 3: sort of like this idea that the aura is this
Speaker 3: vision as well as being visible. So I think if
Speaker 3: you're going to be doing spell work with this stuff,
Speaker 3: you have to remember that that aura is like the
Speaker 3: ancient care pace, you know, especially when it comes to
Speaker 3: our relationship with other people, because that's sort of like
Speaker 3: how we feel them out, that's sort of the vibe,
Speaker 3: you know. So even though it's very earthy from a
Speaker 3: evolutionary perspective, from this perspective, this is how we collect
Speaker 3: information from the people and things around us.
Speaker 13: I want, I'm not beat a dead horse here. So
Speaker 13: we're talking about scorpions, We're talking about how they are
Speaker 13: the universal eye. We're talking about how they have remained unchanged.
Speaker 13: So if they have lasted, if you believe in this,
Speaker 13: I do. But so I'm just gonna spit out there.
Speaker 13: If you believe that they've been around for more than
Speaker 13: five hundred million years, and you believe the DNA has memory,
Speaker 13: then that means that they saw what at least two
Speaker 13: extinctions and they survived and they're able to store that
Speaker 13: event or memory in their DNA over and over and over.
Speaker 13: And now you're calling them the Universal Eye, and now
Speaker 13: you're saying that they can detect all kinds of things
Speaker 13: in terms of all of the electromagnetic information from the Sun.
Speaker 7: Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 13: Huge symbolism, symbolic what have you scorpion.
Speaker 3: The crayon marking its across the Earth.
Speaker 12: One hundred percent. I just want to add something, Lisa
Speaker 12: that you said. It was really interesting. It sparks some
Speaker 12: like a memory. I guess of the Midnight Sacrifices is
Speaker 12: that the goddess that we spoke about, or I spoke
Speaker 12: about at the very beginning, Matongi, she is a Chandhali goddess.
Speaker 12: So she's associated with the Grove Sacrifices exactly like what
Speaker 12: you said, Like what would happen at midnight. There's even
Speaker 12: an old tntra and a Katari princess was actually caught
Speaker 12: doing this ritual. Interestingly, it was a newspaper clipping of it.
Speaker 12: So you find eight different I guess men that fit
Speaker 12: a specific archetype birth date very specifically, and you have
Speaker 12: relations with all eight and then you perform whatever the
Speaker 12: ritual is and you and then you then you get
Speaker 12: a boon from that goddess. But it has to happen
Speaker 12: at a specific time, which is midnight, has to happened
Speaker 12: in the night in the specific location. So I think
Speaker 12: it's very interesting about that. And then the idea of
Speaker 12: the moon phases and where you would face. This is
Speaker 12: also related to the growth worship which the goddesses are
Speaker 12: called the Nitya goddesses, meaning that there are particular faces
Speaker 12: of the void. That's how it's what Nitya also means.
Speaker 12: It can mean eternal or void, but it also refers
Speaker 12: to an internal thing which is just below your lungs,
Speaker 12: this kind of like void emptiness that exists like in
Speaker 12: a pocket, almost like in your body, so it can
Speaker 12: also refer to that. And then the Nitia goddesses are
Speaker 12: nine in number, so whatever the moon phase is, you
Speaker 12: face that direction and then perform the ritual for that
Speaker 12: goddess or that face.
Speaker 7: Gotchas Man.
Speaker 3: I was going to talk a little bit about how
Speaker 3: evolved folk magic is because it takes all of these
Speaker 3: different elements and just because it's a different sort of
Speaker 3: a language and expressing it, it's still the same thing.
Speaker 3: And so the folk magic is like tapping into this
Speaker 3: root that you know, all of these different elements sort
Speaker 3: of play into. But it's not immediately obvious why they
Speaker 3: would because it's using very simple language.
Speaker 4: Now, Interestingly, in the in regard to scorpions and scorpio,
Speaker 4: when you look into the mythri cult when they sacrifice
Speaker 4: the yearly Bull, there's a scorpion that is actually down
Speaker 4: at the testicles of the bull that's stinging the testicles
Speaker 4: as the bull is dying to basically encourage the release
Speaker 4: of the generative force into the cosmos to revivify. And
Speaker 4: again we're talking about the idea of dying, passing over
Speaker 4: and revivifying, so death and rebirth once again.
Speaker 10: Yeah, this is my theory.
Speaker 3: I think the baculum, because most mammals have a penis bone.
Speaker 3: I think the baculum is the original magic wand. If
Speaker 3: you think about it, everybody's run across a skeleton in
Speaker 3: the woods before, right, and what's always missing from that
Speaker 3: skeleton is the penis bone. So if h Man is
Speaker 3: looking at these skeletons, they're thinking, hold on a second,
Speaker 3: when I killed this animal, there was a penis bone.
Speaker 3: There's no more penis bone. Something went after this thing.
Speaker 3: It's highly valued in nature. So maybe the magic wand
Speaker 3: comes from the baculum ideal. If you look at the
Speaker 3: the raccoon vaculum, right, it's very much scorpio, it's got
Speaker 3: the scorpion curve, and it's also you know, very straight
Speaker 3: at the end. There's there's this kind of magical element
Speaker 3: to the baculum and this generative principle that I think
Speaker 3: feeds into the idea of the magic wand. And also
Speaker 3: he's flying broom.
Speaker 9: For sure, No exactly, right man, Yeah, the fallus is
Speaker 9: a magic wand. You know they're they're one and the same.
Speaker 9: It's energy being sent forth right, right, That's that's what
Speaker 9: the wand represents, that thought, the fallas represents. I'm so
Speaker 9: glad you brought up the Mithraic connection because I have
Speaker 9: that in my notes too. It's perfect symbolically. It's amazing
Speaker 9: because when Scorpio is rising, the bowl is falling right right,
Speaker 9: and so there's a few things that operate this way.
Speaker 9: So because Scorpio is opposite Taurus, that dynamic is there.
Speaker 9: Oriyan isn't too far away from Taurus as well, and
Speaker 9: that's the hunter and he got stung by a scorpion
Speaker 9: and that was like he was a mighty hunter, but
Speaker 9: the scorpion is what did him in and so so
Speaker 9: the same sort of dynamic when the scorpion is rising,
Speaker 9: Oriyan is falling and kind of relate to this.
Speaker 7: Actually, So in Taurus you have two stars that make
Speaker 7: up the eyes of the bowl. One is al de
Speaker 7: Baron and one is Ayen.
Speaker 9: Al de Baron is like this huge, massive royal star
Speaker 9: and then Aen actually literally means I, which is interesting.
Speaker 9: So you have these two stars there. And what I've
Speaker 9: heard from this astrologer, his name is ross Ben. I
Speaker 9: don't know if you guys are familiar with his work,
Speaker 9: but he's an interesting dude. And he got really into
Speaker 9: all things related to Philadelphia history and like the founding
Speaker 9: of this country and like all sorts of stuff right,
Speaker 9: and he has a really great presentation. I know he's
Speaker 9: talked about this a number of times over the years,
Speaker 9: but one of the things he's tracked is potentially the
Speaker 9: Declaration of Independence literally being signed at the moment that
Speaker 9: Al de Baron is rising over the eastern horizon, and
Speaker 9: that that was a deliberate encoding that the founding or
Speaker 9: Benjamin Franklin was trying to do when he signed it,
Speaker 9: which is interesting because that's when Scorpio is also falling.
Speaker 9: So again, just the thirteen Colonies and the thirteen business
Speaker 9: and just the fact that there's that sort of relationship
Speaker 9: I think is kind of intriguing.
Speaker 7: And the Eagle and as it relates to Scorpo and
Speaker 7: stuff like that. So something to chew on.
Speaker 10: El de Bora.
Speaker 14: Guy hel de Born is also known as the bulls eye,
Speaker 14: and it's where we get the word and term bull's
Speaker 14: eye from as well.
Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah, totally.
Speaker 9: And then even kind of opposite, not directly, it's not
Speaker 9: the like polar opposing sign, but Sagittarius being right next
Speaker 9: to Scorpio centaur. My understanding is that centaar means bull
Speaker 9: killer and so so there is that dynamic too that
Speaker 9: that tar in centaur means like bull taurus. So the
Speaker 9: bulls eye, you can say that Sagittarius. There's a number
Speaker 9: of claims symbolically of where Sagittarius is pointing a zarrow,
Speaker 9: but one of the claims is that he's pointing it
Speaker 9: at the ball across on the elliptic.
Speaker 3: That would make sense to have that as being the
Speaker 3: entropy killer. Right, So, as you hit the bulls eye,
Speaker 3: what does sid mean? It means missing the mark. But
Speaker 3: when you're hitting the mark, if you're hitting the bullseye,
Speaker 3: that's when you're killing entropy.
Speaker 6: Right there you go.
Speaker 9: Yeah, man, this crew is awesome, by the way, I
Speaker 9: really I appreciate everyone's insights.
Speaker 8: I just want stuff. It's got me thinking too much
Speaker 8: now right, well, like I'm going to get lost and
Speaker 8: rabbitbles now after this.
Speaker 3: Well, there's so many That's what I love about these
Speaker 3: different things. It's the power of association. Everybody has these
Speaker 3: associations that are just hardwired into our minds because of
Speaker 3: all of our experiences and stuff, and then once we
Speaker 3: bring them out, we find that it connects to so
Speaker 3: many other different minds. It's beautiful thing.
Speaker 8: I think I said it on Gin Show I said,
Speaker 8: in some ways, I said, it's almost like an audio
Speaker 8: version of Crowley seven seven seven When I have this
Speaker 8: many people on. Everybody has their own association and their
Speaker 8: wrong way of looking at it, and you just get.
Speaker 4: The layers of symbols.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 3: Instead of a book, you just got the engineer. Yeah,
Speaker 3: he is taking this all in and he's just imagining
Speaker 3: all of these different numbers and how to construct the thing.
Speaker 3: It's beautiful, I see working.
Speaker 6: Yeah, what are you thinking about it? You got anything
Speaker 6: you want to add? TJ do this stuff.
Speaker 14: Yeah, I'm just well, I guess I'm like kind of
Speaker 14: embodying like that scorpio energy too, where I'm just kind
Speaker 14: of like sitting in the back and I'm I'm like, yeah,
Speaker 14: I'm the spider.
Speaker 10: Weave in.
Speaker 14: We've in the conversation in the background. One thing on
Speaker 14: the Jamatria to bring up a bit is spider uh
Speaker 14: equals seventy one and that's the twentieth prime. That's like
Speaker 14: not really that relevant, but spider matches with Babylon thought, O'Ryan, virgo, pisces,
Speaker 14: and sperm, which were all things that were brought up
Speaker 14: as far as explaining the Spider and the spider just
Speaker 14: having to do with that. Like, I think Babylon is
Speaker 14: a good a really good match there too, because it's
Speaker 14: like the it kind of is the reality. It's like
Speaker 14: the Tower of Babel and we babble on we speak, right,
Speaker 14: it fits with that kind of thing. And then even
Speaker 14: with nick uh vibin on that and the scorpion, scorpion
Speaker 14: equals one to oh nine. One hundred and nine is
Speaker 14: the seventeenth prime number.
Speaker 6: So there we go.
Speaker 12: We got the number.
Speaker 14: Seventeen, and then scorpion matches with reduction, octopus, sucubis, labyrinth,
Speaker 14: magic eight ball, wormholes, straw man, acid, diamonds, thatch is
Speaker 14: what I had off the top of my head kind
Speaker 14: of thing. So it's just cool how it all connects.
Speaker 14: And then on like the alien thing, like the scorpion,
Speaker 14: the spider, and the octopus, these eight legged things are
Speaker 14: all very alien vibe, like it's not just one of them,
Speaker 14: like they all have that kind of.
Speaker 10: Nig to them.
Speaker 3: What if seventeen? What if seventeen is the last part
Speaker 3: of that trinity, So you've got eight, thirteen and seventeen.
Speaker 3: I don't know, there's there's a there's actually there.
Speaker 12: Yeah, there's a definitely connection there. It's this, it's you know,
Speaker 12: it's the star falling onto the path, the light traveling
Speaker 12: from the path from n'saw to code, and then it's
Speaker 12: shooting her arrow into the paths and then she ends
Speaker 12: up facing Tipperreth looking at Gabera, or she's looking at
Speaker 12: Tipprith from Gerbera. So there's like this girl there that's
Speaker 12: not like an archer. She's holding like Mario's talking about,
Speaker 12: like the Sagittarius, and but it's all being rectified at
Speaker 12: the moon, so it's all like happening. So it is
Speaker 12: like a Babylon.
Speaker 6: So and TJ.
Speaker 12: I don't want to call you out, but you are
Speaker 12: have a pink background. And as I've said to Nick,
Speaker 12: pink is the color of synthesis in decoherence. So it
Speaker 12: is a it is a spectral color. It doesn't exist,
Speaker 12: but it's something that we construct with our minds. So
Speaker 12: it's very much related to consciousness or akasha or space
Speaker 12: or void, which is something that we've perennially. I guess
Speaker 12: you've been. We've been all referencing. So there's something really
Speaker 12: interesting there.
Speaker 3: Well, that's the thing we're talking about. Decoherence. Eight would
Speaker 3: be the decoherence of seven, thirteen would be the decoherence
Speaker 3: of twelve, and then seventeen would be the decoherence of
Speaker 3: the double eight sixteen, sixteen.
Speaker 12: It is also the number of creations. So I just
Speaker 12: want to I forgot to say that it's decoherence, but
Speaker 12: it's also creative in its capacity because it's the capacity
Speaker 12: for love, right, that's the whole idea.
Speaker 13: Gen You just spark something I totally forgot to say
Speaker 13: about scorpions. They do have. They do practice parth genesis
Speaker 13: in that whenever there's not a mate around, they can
Speaker 13: reproduce asexually. Granted they we clone of it of themselves, but.
Speaker 3: They do.
Speaker 13: The female does is able to participate in part the genesis, and.
Speaker 3: I believe again the version.
Speaker 13: I believe the courtship within aside from them holding each
Speaker 13: other's stingers and so forth, I do. I think it's
Speaker 13: very elaborate. From what I remember. I think there is
Speaker 13: like a thumping to where the female feels the vibrations
Speaker 13: of the male. There's this whole it's like it's it's
Speaker 13: really long and elaborate. I do know that some of
Speaker 13: them will subdue the female again, but it's it's so
Speaker 13: elaborate and so intricate that it it almost like transcends
Speaker 13: just the fact that it's you know, just an eracnid.
Speaker 13: Why the long you know, courtship. So it's very interesting.
Speaker 13: I do I do remember that. I don't know the
Speaker 13: specifics of it.
Speaker 14: But they dance with each other, they like grab claws
Speaker 14: and around.
Speaker 13: And it's very.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 9: That's incredible, the fact that parthenogenesis is a thing with
Speaker 9: the scorpion, and then Virgo is right again opposite on
Speaker 9: the other side of Libra.
Speaker 7: I mean, that is that's amazing.
Speaker 9: Something somebody said just reminded me of the fact that
Speaker 9: Scorpio season is when we have Halloween and the Day
Speaker 9: of the Dead. So the idea is that the veil
Speaker 9: is thin, you know, and Libra has you know, it's
Speaker 9: equal parts day and night. It's bringing in the fall.
Speaker 9: So like the dark side of the Zodiac. And then
Speaker 9: to me, Scorpio is like one of the prime symbols
Speaker 9: that really embodies sort of like the dark side of
Speaker 9: the Zodiac, if you will, and you know, crossing the
Speaker 9: abyss or the other side or you know, whatever it
Speaker 9: is you want to say, all things related to the
Speaker 9: Dark Mother and you know this idea too. There's a
Speaker 9: lot of veil symbolism kind of going on. But what
Speaker 9: veils reveals, what conceals reveals, right, and so things are
Speaker 9: generated in the dark, you know, you put a seed
Speaker 9: into the ground, right, Mother Earth, and so the dark
Speaker 9: mother thing is so beautiful to me personally, kind of
Speaker 9: related to that too. In Scorpio, you have Antaras another
Speaker 9: royal star, which is the heart of the Scorpion, and
Speaker 9: that star is brilliant. I mean when I used to
Speaker 9: stargaze way more, I always used to see that that
Speaker 9: is like the most flickery star you can find, like
Speaker 9: in the sky basically. And I used to have a
Speaker 9: P nine hundred and so that's like the camera where
Speaker 9: you can zoom in like crazy. I can't remember the
Speaker 9: magnification on it, but it's like absolutely nuts. And one
Speaker 9: of my favorite things was to zoom in on Antera's
Speaker 9: because it's just like this little light show. It's almost
Speaker 9: kind of like a little rainbow.
Speaker 12: It's warm.
Speaker 9: They compare it to Mars, which is kind of interesting
Speaker 9: too because al Deboron has a lot of symbolism related
Speaker 9: to Mars as well. Actually, you know, they both kind
Speaker 9: of lean towards the warmer side of things and have
Speaker 9: symbolism you know that corresponds with that. And Mars used
Speaker 9: to be like the traditional rulership of Scorpio too, so
Speaker 9: there's that, but there is a heart dynamic with the
Speaker 9: scorpion as well too, and I think in Terror's is
Speaker 9: kind of one of those keys that you can look
Speaker 9: into to find out more about it.
Speaker 12: Something you said, Mario was really interesting to me about
Speaker 12: how you say it's the dark mother. So in Buddhism
Speaker 12: that would represent the first turning and then the subsequent
Speaker 12: other turnings. Yes, she reappears in a younger form maybe
Speaker 12: in the last turning, so the third turning, but for
Speaker 12: the fourth turning she has to rectify as again the daughter.
Speaker 12: So there is something really interesting there and Mars does
Speaker 12: play a big part in that. And I think Pop
Speaker 12: twenty two that path from just said to Gebura that
Speaker 12: thing that is synthetically perfect in a way, like Lisa
Speaker 12: was even hinting at this, not him, she said, part
Speaker 12: in the genesis something I've been thinking a lot about personally,
Speaker 12: and just this idea of like what like if if
Speaker 12: the perfection happens at tip Erith, like that sort of green,
Speaker 12: harmonious color. But then we also say there's this dualistic
Speaker 12: property where it's control, Like there's a control because there's
Speaker 12: an illusion. It's not necessarily control as in handcuffs or shackles,
Speaker 12: maybe because we can consciously take them off if we
Speaker 12: want to have an quit to say. And but you know,
Speaker 12: like what is sort of the reflection of that? That's
Speaker 12: so I think there's something in that where it's like,
Speaker 12: is that path in the genesis? Is that what that
Speaker 12: story is kind of talking about. Is this sort of
Speaker 12: like a like a sort of thing that we know
Speaker 12: that we don't acknowledge, like a hidden truth? And because
Speaker 12: Mario bar even brought up the world card, well that
Speaker 12: in Kapala means that's the path of truth. That's like
Speaker 12: that that's what connects us to the moon, that's what
Speaker 12: connects us to Babylon. So something really interesting also about that,
Speaker 12: like is that the truth of humanity? If you want
Speaker 12: to take it to a speculative place, is it this
Speaker 12: parth in agenesis, this creation of the as my friend
Speaker 12: Sashi would call it, the crystal Millennium Kingdom? Like, is
Speaker 12: that the truth is like something that we just don't know.
Speaker 9: Yeah, I mean personally, I think the universe is feminine.
Speaker 9: I think the cosmos is feminine, you know, And so
Speaker 9: even Virgo. Virgo is the queen of heaven, but then
Speaker 9: also the queen of Earth. So it's like Virgo is
Speaker 9: above and also below. And to me, the way I
Speaker 9: look at it, and maybe I've been way too influenced
Speaker 9: from like the Gnostic creation story or something like that,
Speaker 9: which there's a lot of parts of modern narcissism I
Speaker 9: don't really care for. But the idea that Sophia basically
Speaker 9: had this inner light that she created or birthed on
Speaker 9: her own accord, so she the universe itself, is also
Speaker 9: a virgin mother. Basically, she has no equal, there was
Speaker 9: no partner, There was no masculine presence until the demiurge
Speaker 9: base was created right the sun. And so to me
Speaker 9: that makes all of the sense in the world. It
Speaker 9: also makes sense that men are basically masculine women pretty much,
Speaker 9: and that the ovaries descend into testicles, right, and so
Speaker 9: every embryo starts off as feminine female and then turns
Speaker 9: into a male basically. So it's like the way I
Speaker 9: put it is, we do live in a man's world
Speaker 9: with the caveat that it exists within a feminine universe.
Speaker 7: That's the deal.
Speaker 3: Well, I think the feminine wouldn't always be the path
Speaker 3: of parthen in genesis because of its plasticity. Oh yeah,
Speaker 3: if you look at all the different species that have
Speaker 3: parthenin genesis, it always comes through the female. It's not
Speaker 3: coming through the male, and it is not meant.
Speaker 13: I mean, I hope nobody gets that offended about that,
Speaker 13: you know, like they were all inherently female. It's just
Speaker 13: if you think of it an evolutionary terms, it's easier
Speaker 13: to defeminize the brain versus already have everything there. So
Speaker 13: you have the entire brain that is such a complex
Speaker 13: and so many different indocrine organs are going to have
Speaker 13: to talk to each other throughout months and throughout whatever.
Speaker 13: It's easier to just turn off the lights versus create
Speaker 13: all of this. And so that's I think that's what happens.
Speaker 13: Evolution is always taken the path of least energy needed,
Speaker 13: and that's all that is, right, I mean, that's kind
Speaker 13: of how I view it.
Speaker 4: Well, And if you go back into the mysteries and
Speaker 4: the creation stories of the Egyptians and Sumerians, there's always
Speaker 4: this idea of the shadows swimming in the darkness, that
Speaker 4: is essentially that mother that you know, divine feminine force
Speaker 4: of you know what is possible and.
Speaker 7: Right, Yeah, totally.
Speaker 9: Even if you look at a strength card, I see
Speaker 9: the strength card is basically being it's showing you the
Speaker 9: relationship between two signs, Virgo and Leo. So that is
Speaker 9: Virgo taming her child. Basically you're looking at mother and child.
Speaker 9: Who's in control there, it's the woman, it's the feminine right.
Speaker 9: And so even when you look at some versions of Leo,
Speaker 9: which would be the sun, right, the only sign that
Speaker 9: actually is ruled by the sun, like in the Dendera zodiac,
Speaker 9: which I know that's like a Greek like the you
Speaker 9: know they took from the Greeks at that point in
Speaker 9: time and things like that. But Leo actually it's his
Speaker 9: tail is being held by a woman, and the little
Speaker 9: woman actually has a flail in her hand, so she
Speaker 9: is controlling the lion. This is just like another nod
Speaker 9: to this whole entire relationship in my opinion of like
Speaker 9: who's really running the show? Who has to me more
Speaker 9: magical qualities to them? Men have to go out of
Speaker 9: their way to learn about the mysteries and tap into
Speaker 9: that side of them. So it's way more natural for
Speaker 9: women to be tapped into that, even just the mysteries themselves,
Speaker 9: which scorpio is a sign that's really related to the
Speaker 9: mysteries and initiation as well. Right, And so to me,
Speaker 9: the mysteries themselves, that is feminine, you know, it's not masculine, right,
Speaker 9: it's way more receptive and things like that, And to me,
Speaker 9: that's a beautiful thing. And a lot of these lodge
Speaker 9: systems and mystery schools and stuff like that, a lot
Speaker 9: of them it goes back to feminine goddess type stuff,
Speaker 9: you know, not necessarily the masculine.
Speaker 10: Right.
Speaker 4: In Rome, by the time Kybell had basically moved in
Speaker 4: from Phrygia, she became essentially taken as the mother of
Speaker 4: all the gods, and all of the mystery systems were
Speaker 4: incorporated under the Mother Kybelle.
Speaker 3: Right, it's about the preservation of energy, and the receptacle
Speaker 3: nature of it is the preservation of energy. So on
Speaker 3: all these different levels, including spiritual, it's the preservation. It's
Speaker 3: the filling of the cup that takes on these essences.
Speaker 3: And so it would make sense to me that preservation
Speaker 3: of energy would be a feminine aspect. Again, it's like
Speaker 3: the net is set and then all the rest of
Speaker 3: the energy flies into it. They don't have to go out,
Speaker 3: they don't have to. Men waste a lot of energy.
Speaker 3: We are the number one energy wasters in the universe.
Speaker 3: But you know, again that's necessary for expansion. At the
Speaker 3: same time, we've got the inclusionary force. If you look
Speaker 3: up the water Wizard, right, the guy who was working
Speaker 3: on the Nazi bell. Somebody helped me out here. He's
Speaker 3: talking about the implosive force versus the explosive force. Implosive
Speaker 3: force would be the feminine energy. It would be like
Speaker 3: the FI energy moving inward versus the explosive force, which
Speaker 3: would be the mask energy, which would be wasting all
Speaker 3: of that radiation into the universe instead of preserving it.
Speaker 9: Right dude, yeah, exactly. It reminds me of what I
Speaker 9: learned about involution versus evolution in school. We're always just
Speaker 9: taught about evolution. We're not taught about involution.
Speaker 1: And what that is.
Speaker 9: The case could be made, in my opinion, that the
Speaker 9: universe actually is involved, meaning that it receded unto itself.
Speaker 9: It receded into itself, which is actually way more Saturnian.
Speaker 9: Oftentimes people refer to the Saturnian as being more restrictive
Speaker 9: or contractive, which is more polar once again versus the
Speaker 9: Jubiterarian expansion, projective, masculine. Right, and so it's possible that
Speaker 9: whatever we're living within it, actually we're within it basically,
Speaker 9: and then within that there's room to actually have expansion, right.
Speaker 12: I will just I can't believe I'm going to be
Speaker 12: the one to say this, but I'm going to. I
Speaker 12: think there's a dude's rock sort of angle that even
Speaker 12: I don't think anyone's denigrating men, but I just think
Speaker 12: that there is something interesting if you look at the
Speaker 12: original suffraettes Ra and some of the Shrevigia texts, and
Speaker 12: also some of the College Troker teachings, that the rectification
Speaker 12: of the what I call the daughter, but obviously we
Speaker 12: can call her also the mother. I think it's interesting
Speaker 12: if you call her a virgin mother, it requires the son,
Speaker 12: and it also requires the father. Even in many Gnostic
Speaker 12: texts and even in hypothesis, and even in the Epinoia
Speaker 12: of Nurea, it said that she contains the mind of
Speaker 12: the father and the love of the mother or the
Speaker 12: heart of them, so it but it also requires the son.
Speaker 12: So it's like it's a dialectical synthesis. Is a perfection
Speaker 12: you could say, like a thurgical perfection. It's not. It's
Speaker 12: nondual in the sense that I think that that's the
Speaker 12: better a personal approach to it is to approach it mondually,
Speaker 12: because I think that there's something more interesting about that,
Speaker 12: rather than fixing it into view saying like oh, hard masculine,
Speaker 12: hard feminine, and this is and the two things will
Speaker 12: you know never be one, instead of saying it's like
Speaker 12: a hermaphroditic, I think it's actually complementary rather than a polarity.
Speaker 3: Right, Well, from my perspective, I would I would add
Speaker 3: that the feminine is far more utilitarian, which means far colder. Right,
Speaker 3: You don't get that expansiveness. It closes itself off from
Speaker 3: the outside, so it is it's not necessarily a purely preservational.
Speaker 3: It cuts off what is unnecessary. It's a utilitarian So
Speaker 3: that is kind of the downfall of that motherly energy
Speaker 3: or that spiral inward is it is very cold. That's
Speaker 3: where you get the dark mother coming out of Well,
Speaker 3: there's that angle list too.
Speaker 12: I'll just say that list that of a you know,
Speaker 12: a flower can ride the dragon, so I'll just say that,
Speaker 12: so there is an expansive element that the mother can
Speaker 12: take on.
Speaker 13: To kind of go based on Jen had me thinking
Speaker 13: about this in that So just to kind of go
Speaker 13: back a little bit, when you fertilize an egg, all
Speaker 13: eggs of all females are X all of them there.
Speaker 13: None of them are hy and so you already start
Speaker 13: with the basis of a female embryo, right, and so
Speaker 13: when you have parthogenesis, you're not getting any hybrid vigor,
Speaker 13: you're not getting any polymorphisms, you're not getting any genetic drifts,
Speaker 13: you're not getting any kind of variation in genetics, and
Speaker 13: so you are not essentially moving the species forward. If anything,
Speaker 13: you were holding them still because any kind of parthogenesis
Speaker 13: is a clone of the mother. There is no very
Speaker 13: there is no additional half contribution from the father or
Speaker 13: from the son. You're basically kind of like, Okay, well,
Speaker 13: you know, no one came around. I never had a suitor.
Speaker 13: We didn't you know, made I didn't find one. But
Speaker 13: I'm going to put forth clones of myself to at
Speaker 13: least propagate enough. Hopefully out there they themselves can find
Speaker 13: a son or a father or a male and so
Speaker 13: that's all that is. It's not like, oh, we don't
Speaker 13: need men. That that has nothing to do with it.
Speaker 13: If anything, life itself and nature itself requires the duality
Speaker 13: for propagation and what's it called preservation of the species itself.
Speaker 3: The ultimate power in the universe is the pause button,
Speaker 3: because when you can pause and just stay in stasis,
Speaker 3: then you can flourish again once that masculine energy has
Speaker 3: returned to the system, right, And so that that parthen
Speaker 3: in genesis female energy is the pause button. This is
Speaker 3: the survival mechanism. It cuts away all that is unnecessary.
Speaker 3: It cuts away all that is joy and purity and
Speaker 3: you know, expansive and loving all this stuff outside. It
Speaker 3: says pause. And if you think about it, think about
Speaker 3: UFO experiences. When you're looking at the UFO, what do
Speaker 3: they hit the pause button? You don't get to move,
Speaker 3: You're stuck in that stasis layer and then whatever happens
Speaker 3: they call it lost time. Right, you know there is
Speaker 3: that element there of lost time when it comes to
Speaker 3: parthen in Genesis and this female energy which you know
Speaker 3: it's communism, right, because communism thinks about hitting the pause.
Speaker 3: But we need to stop it here here and no further,
Speaker 3: there's no more march of history. We will stop it here.
Speaker 3: This is the preservation of all energy. It's like, it
Speaker 3: doesn't work that way, people. You got to think outside
Speaker 3: of that because you need that male expansive to actually
Speaker 3: have the joy that comes along with that Jupiterian energy.
Speaker 9: You know, I actually think this could be a great
Speaker 9: conversation to continue at another time. Yeah, gender symbolism, the
Speaker 9: nature of what we're talking about, Jen, what you brought
Speaker 9: to the table, duality, non duality, this trying sort of thing.
Speaker 7: I always think of Mercury.
Speaker 9: Mercury is like one of my favorite sort of like
Speaker 9: I don't know's it's a planet and like the deities
Speaker 9: associated with Mercury mean a lot to me, right, And
Speaker 9: mercury obviously has this androgenous nature, but there's a triune
Speaker 9: aspect even to that, right, And so yeah, exactly right,
Speaker 9: And so there's a lot to chew on here with
Speaker 9: this conversation, for sure. And this is something that I
Speaker 9: would say even traditionally for me, I've struggled with the
Speaker 9: chicken or the egg sort of thing, you know, and
Speaker 9: what came first?
Speaker 7: What's more important or least important? Are they equal?
Speaker 9: Is you know all this type of stuff Like it's
Speaker 9: just like a continual sort of like conversation in my
Speaker 9: mind basically because I see aspects of all of the
Speaker 9: things that everyone's bringing up today.
Speaker 8: Yes, well we did talk about doing mercury eventually next,
Speaker 8: so I mean we could we could work in that.
Speaker 6: Aspect then maybe when we talk about that.
Speaker 8: Unfortunately, due to Tom, I'm gonna have to wrap this
Speaker 8: up in a few minutes at least I'm supposed to
Speaker 8: be on another show actually right now. So was there
Speaker 8: anything that anybody wanted to cover like real quick that
Speaker 8: was like left out or that they wanted to say?
Speaker 14: At the end, I have to correct something. I said
Speaker 14: that the one hundred and nine was the seventeenth prime.
Speaker 14: I got my stuff mixed up seven to numb. The
Speaker 14: word seventeen equals one hundred and nine. Oh, it's just
Speaker 14: not the seventeenth prime. But the word seventeen matches a scorpion.
Speaker 14: And then one hundred and nine is the twenty ninth prime,
Speaker 14: and twenty nine has this kind of plutonic and mood
Speaker 14: kind of element.
Speaker 10: To it, which we don't really have time to get into.
Speaker 6: But anything else from anybody else.
Speaker 12: I thought that was great ToJ I just want to
Speaker 12: say that that's something really interesting. I want to talk
Speaker 12: about that later.
Speaker 3: One thing. I just want to say. Eight would be
Speaker 3: cloth though, that would be the spinner, Thirteen would be Lachesis,
Speaker 3: which would be the measurer the you know, the massive cycles.
Speaker 3: Then seventeen would be atropos, which would be the cutter.
Speaker 3: Thanks going back into that scorpio energy, right.
Speaker 7: Jin, nothing else to add, but this is a great time.
Speaker 7: Thank you guys.
Speaker 8: Yeah, hell yeah, helly Jin, Lisa, Robbie, you want to
Speaker 8: add anything before we rep it it?
Speaker 4: Oh, I just think it was a great conversation.
Speaker 8: Oh yeah, yeah, no, shut it off. Yeah, there's so
Speaker 8: many things that I got. I'm just stuck in my head.
Speaker 8: I'm still like stuck from like thirty minutes ago about shit.
Speaker 4: So I said, I mean we could go more into
Speaker 4: the octopus, the orthropod kind of the underworld, you know.
Speaker 4: But yeah, great, great subject.
Speaker 6: Hell yeah yeah, hopefully I will say I love.
Speaker 13: The redundancy throughout all cultures of all timelines. Yeah, two species, Yeah,
Speaker 13: actually transcend time space.
Speaker 3: I like that.
Speaker 12: Welcome and thank you to all so much, and thank
Speaker 12: you Nick for inviting me and letting me.
Speaker 8: Oh definitely, Yeah, this was awesome. That's why I want
Speaker 8: to get so many people together. I thought this was amazing.
Speaker 8: Thank you, Thank you all for really a great night
Speaker 8: and a whole lot of information. And I hope you know,
Speaker 8: the listeners, you should definitely get something out of this.
Speaker 8: I hope you know I'll give you things to think about.
Speaker 8: I definitely got a bunch of things to think about,
Speaker 8: especially with like symbolism and taro and all sorts of stuff. Now,
Speaker 8: uh so again, yeah, thank you all your everybody here
Speaker 8: on the show. Their links will be in the bottom.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 8: That's the end of another Occult Rejects and thank you
Speaker 8: everybody in the chat.
Speaker 6: That's what's up. And until the next one, everybody be
Speaker 6: well later
Speaker 13: M