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Speaker 1: If you want to get the show early and ad free,

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head on over to the Peak Kinyonas show dot com.

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There you can choose from where you wish to support me.

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Now listen very carefully. I've had some people ask me

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about this, even though I think on the last ad

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I stated it pretty clearly. If you want an RSS feed,

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if you do that, you will get access to the

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audio file. So head on over to the pekan yonasshow

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dot com. You'll see all the ways that you can

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support me there. And I just want to thank everyone.

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It's because of you that I can put out the

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amount of material that I do. I can do what

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I'm doing with doctor Johnson on two hundred Years Together

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and everything else, the things that Thomas and I are

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doing together on kindinal philosophy, it's all because of you.

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And yeah, I mean, I'll never be able to thank

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you enough.

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Speaker 2: So thank you.

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Speaker 1: The Pekanyonashow dot com. Everything's there, everybody. It is Labor

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Day weekend, and I got two guys here who can

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talk about labor all day.

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Speaker 2: Thomas, how are you doing?

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Speaker 3: And well? Thank you? Thanks for hosting me.

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Speaker 2: And first time on the live stream.

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Speaker 4: Hey doing, Daryl doing well? Man. It's always good to

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be here, and it's especially good to be here with Thomas.

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Speaker 1: That's awesome. All right, Labor Day weekend. Let's talk about labor.

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Let's talk about the history of labor in this country,

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the labor movements. I know both of you. Darryl's obviously

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has a series on it. Thomas and I have covered

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it extensively on multiple multiple series. So who wants to

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go first? Who wants to who wants to talk about?

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Speaker 2: Why? Why right?

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Speaker 1: Why right wingers and right coded people don't talk about it?

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Is it because it's just a left coded thing? Is

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that what it is?

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Speaker 4: I'll let Thomas start because I like listening to him

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more than I like listening to myself.

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Speaker 3: I think it's what Werner Sombart said it was, you

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know Sombart wrote at first it was an SA for context.

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One of the reasons why George Sorel's his most well

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known stuff like Reflections on Violence, that originally was a

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series of essays the labor movement was particularly literate. So

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there's a lot of journalists, journalists who were you know,

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engaged in it, and they'd serialize, you know, their their

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position papers and things, okay, and in socialist periodicals and stuff.

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Sombar was a little more he came more to academ

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than some of these guys. I mean, Cirell did too,

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but Crell as a mathematician. That's kind of a different thing.

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But Crell wrote what became an essay and then a

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book called Wise. There were no socialism in America. Okay.

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The short answer is, you know, whether or not you

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accept the Tokeville is kind of take that America actually

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is full of rugged individuals. Americans are reverse to taking

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on a class identity for a lot of reasons. It's

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not it's not just a misplaced kind of pride or something.

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And it's not just you know, a kind of fantasy

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they have themselves. Only the physic mythologies, there might be

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some of it. But the ability to bargain one's labor

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independent of a collective structure. That was important in America

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for a lot of reasons. And it's not like in

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America you had some party apparatus backing you up. You know,

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if you decided to take a stand with with some

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sort of labor concern against an employer, you we really

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were on your own, you know. So there was kind

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of this conspiracy of variables that precluded working class mobilization

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in America. And interestingly, the Soviet Union in the Warsaw

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Pack team of that conclusion too. They're like, it's the know,

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They're like, we'll continue. Gus Hall was was there was

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their formal representative and states, which is really interesting, you know,

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the communist part of the USA and basically their attitude

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became in the twentieth century. You know, we're gonna keep

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on funding this, and we want to make sure our

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position is stated. You know, I want some kind of

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formal representation, we want we want some information resource for

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American workers. But we're not going to understain the delusion

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that there's gonna be some kind of socialist wave in

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America that's going to be at all impactful, because that's

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just not realistic, you know, something that's all of those things.

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But also, and I'll give it over to you guys

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in a second. I make the point again and again,

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and I'm not just being pedantic or they're trying to

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convey some a polemical point. There's not a working class anymore.

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Working class doesn't mean guys with jobs or people who

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work with their hands. It refers to a very discrete

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and specific dynamic between mass numbers of people and producers

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in a national look and on a paradigm, or basically

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millions of men, and it's almost all men are doing

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the exact same job to produce evaluated manufacturers on behalf

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of a basically protected industry that then is making those

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manufacturers for export. Okay, either throughout the continental captive market

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or across you know, substantial portions of the world. That's

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the working class. It's not guys who have jobs, or

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people below a certain income threshold or this guy who's

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got his own auto mechanic shop. You know. So it's

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not something that exists anymore. You know. That's why it's

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goofy when Bernie he talks about the working class, It's like,

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who are you talking about? Is are there like three

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million factory workers here in Chicago? I don't know about

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Are they hiding? You know? Do we Is there an industry?

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Is there like a national industrial economics schema? That exists

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that we just don't know about. Like that doesn't exist anymore,

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it's never coming back. So when you talk about the

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labor movement, it's it's all those reasons like ethical and

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otherwise that I raised a minute ago, but it's also conceptual.

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It's not something that exists anymore. So people don't really

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grasp what's being talked about. They think it's that they

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think people are talking about income disparities or you know,

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or you know, outsourcing or I mean, like always so important,

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don't get me wrong, but it's not what's being talked

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about in terms of nineteenth and early twentieth century like

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labor paradigms that that might take on.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I think also, you know, America being born out

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of a revolution and not having a feudal past and

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sort of drawing a lot of its identity, especially early on,

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from that very fact, gave everybody room to sort of

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nurture the illusion that there was no such thing really

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as class in America for quite some time. You know,

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even if you even if you look at a place

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like Virginia, you know, where the majority of the people

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being brought in were kids being brought in as orphan

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indentured servants. So the vast majority of the population up

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until the late part of the seventeenth century were indentured servants.

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Even then, it was sort of it was sort of

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thought of, even at a time when most of the

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indentured servants weren't surviving the duration of their contracts, there

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was still this idea that this is a temporary stop

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over until you join the ownership class basically, And yeah,

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that farmer over there might have more land than you

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and more cattle than you, but you're essentially the same.

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You're both self sufficient producers. And that's sort of the

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path everybody was supposed to be on. And if you

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go all the way up to the eighteen forties and

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a lot of the country into the eighteen fifties into

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the Civil War, you know, business was still like manufacturing

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was still largely conducted on the workshop level. You know,

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you'd have masters and journeymen and apprentices, and the journeymen

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and apprentices were there to learn, and it was a

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relatively high skilled job because they didn't have all these

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mass production machines, and so they weren't easily replaced, you know,

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as factory workers would later be. But even then so

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the idea was they were going to learn that trade

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and then they were going to go find a niche

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in the market so that they could go open up

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their own workshop and have their own journeyman, their own apprentices.

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And this is very much the idea of like what

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the American economic track was up until. I mean, you

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hear Abraham Lincoln even talk about this seriously, I think,

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which is ironic considering he conquered the South on behalf

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of the northern business class. But but he, you know,

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he had his humble beginnings and all that, and so

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he really kind of nurtured that illusion way past its

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expiration point that this is like what America was and

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where things were headed. And you know, it's not just

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that they were on this on the workshop level. It's

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you know, people back then were still at least mostly

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for the most part, were still like half rural, you know,

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a large majority of the population if they weren't fully rural.

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So even if you worked in like a shoemaker's workshop

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as an apprentice or a journeyman, you had a house

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in the country or a little place in the country

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with a garden. If there was a downtime where people

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didn't need shoes, and he didn't really need your labor.

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You hunted, you fished, You took care of your pig

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and slaughtered a pig, You tended your guarden. You had

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something there to kind of fall back on. You weren't

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living in a tenement house in the middle of a

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city where if you break your leg and get thrown

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out on the street, you're done. Like that's pretty much,

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you know, that's you just don't have anything to fall

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back on. And so all of these things sort of

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mitigated the emergency of that prior to the Civil War.

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And then after the Civil War, of course, like the

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economy began to change so rapidly that we were kind

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of playing we were kind of playing catch up.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, and I had real quick too. I mean,

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that's that was really well stated. But one of the

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things that underlay the Mary the Terrible Mary Fagan case

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was that Mary Fagan was an exploited child laborer. And

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if you read about there, there was interestingly, even among

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like a lot of the a lot of the Klan

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Agid prop it was like, look, look what the North did.

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They basically turned our people into this exploited proletariat. They

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didn't use that language, but it's like so may fig

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and she was at thirteen, She's forced into this industrial labor,

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which is brutalizing. There's no surprise that some predatory man

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like Leo Frank would exploit her sexuality too, because that's

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what the North is doing to us. That's the whole point.

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You know, we're literally being raped, the lands being raped,

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or labors being raped. Their women are being or are

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being availed to this kind of abuse because you know,

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we've been ripped from the land and forced into this

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corrupting system, you know. So, yeah, that's tremendously important. You know,

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in America was so huge. Yeah, you could basically most

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it was something people weren't living in in in eighteen

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seventies America, eighteen eighties America, like they were in the

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suburb of Paris or in some industrial town in the

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UK or something. I mean, you could basically escape industrial

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labor and really until we're on the turn of the

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century for most people.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and that led to conditions where, you know, partly

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because of the outlet of the frontier, partly just because

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the growth rate of America labor was just pretty much

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always in a shortage for the first several centuries of

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our existence, and so wages always seemed to be increasing,

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and just in general, you know, there are a lot

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of those mitigating factors for people to feel like they

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really had to organize in a militant way to assert

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themselves as a as a class identity that again they

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had no past experience with. You know, we started to

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get a lot of check in German immigrants that would

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play a major role in the Chicago movement and a

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lot of the industrial movements later on, who were veterans

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or sons of the veterans of the eighteen forty eight

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revolutions over there. But we just didn't really have anything

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like that, you know, And and you know, it was

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going to take some it was going to take quite

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a you know, a bit of shock therapy to get

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workers to start thinking in that way. And it did.

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Speaker 2: That's honesome.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's what's all so too. I want to the

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lack of a feudal origin of America is important, you know,

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because and Marx actually talked about this is what Sombart

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really emphasizes this point, you know, and Pete and I

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were talking about some of this the other day in

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our series on Mars. There's a basic interdependence between the

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casts and feudalism. You know what I mean this is

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this is deep anthropological implications too. You know, domseel strike

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functional like podesis, you know, relates to that as well.

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But that's one of the reasons why that paradigm endured

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for so long. I mean, arguablieve endured into the twentieth

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century in Eastern Europe, you know, I mean, it depends

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on who you ask, and you know, some some historians

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and kind of labor sociologists would object to that, but

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in broad strokes, I you know, I think, I think

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the conceptual picture is clear. But you know, and one

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of the big, a big catalyst of the labor movement

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is to repair the social fabric that modern productive schema destroyed.

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You know, because traditional socialists and labor rights they're not liberals.

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They don't look at history as some horrible criminal record

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where everything was awful until last week when gay people

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were manumented and can pee in each other in public

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without being arrested. Like their whole notion was that history

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is a developmental cycle. A lot of brutal aspects of

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it are essential features of the historical process and you know,

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innovation and need for innovation being the mother of invention,

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and a lot of the time these brutal conditions are

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the catalysts for such things, you know, but they're also basically,

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pragmatically a moral So a lot of the notion was that,

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and I don't fully reject this, I think there's actually

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a lot of truth in it, was that the Industrial

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Revolution was of modality of class war, of nascent capitalists

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essentially smashing the traditional aristocracy. And what that did was

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it it rendered labor relations anonymous and and laborers expendable

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because there was no longer any spontaneous independence between the casts,

259
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and there was really no any any vestigil fellow feeling

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that remained was abolished often by design, you know, and

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especially if you're talking about strass rights and you know,

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guys who are arguably you know, like right wing labor

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rights and socialists in the nearly twentieth century, that was

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that was a big part that that was that was

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that was a big part of their notion, Like the

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Black Legion, you know, which was the strass or at

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schismatic national socialist faction. They'd openly talk about that. How

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you know, the capitalist is basically a spiritual view and

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you know what, what what destroyed the you know, the

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fellow feeling of of of the volk was, you know,

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the these kinds of capitalist designs, you know, and we

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we've got to return to kind of localize the interdependence

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of labor. You know. That in turn, will you know,

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return Europe to a condition where it can defend itself

275
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against these uh, subversive tendencies that you know, wanting to

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nuances in the historical process. We're now uniquely susceptible too.

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So that's important and I think that's lost in a

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lot of people that they have this idea that the

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traditional socialist viewpoint to the traditional labor centric viewpoint, which

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has problems. I'm not saying that the correct account of

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human hology, but they don't look at the past as

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this thing that is abhorrent or that needs to be remedied.

283
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They they consider that perspective I just outlined to be

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like a bourgeoisie conceit, you know. So this is important

285
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and that's part of it too. I mean, that's why

286
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despite despite the fact that you'll find these these these

287
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uh media personages and these types like Bernie Sanders. You know,

288
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they pretend that they're lamenting the absence of a labor movement.

289
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They don't really mean that because they they're speaking a

290
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totally everyconceptual vocabulary than that, and uh, their their their

291
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priorities are totally different than that. You know, they can

292
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invoke these things, so it's not something that exists anymore.

293
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So I think it's all of those things, man.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and that's a really good point about uh, you know,

295
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that sort of wiggish idea of the past being one

296
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long train of nightmares being a bushwalking seat, and it's

297
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you know, they're there are probably various ideological, like developmental

298
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reasons for it, but one of them, I think, certainly

299
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incentive wise, was just that, you know, this was the

300
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class that was using demonization of the past as a

301
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means of throwing off the constraints that had previously been

302
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placed on them and getting to that place of just anonymous,

303
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replaceable units of labor rather than person to person. You know,

304
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as bad as feudalism could be in the wrong context

305
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and things like that, it was a person a person

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relationship and a set of obligations that existed between people,

307
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and you know, these are the kinds of expectations, you

308
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know that were that were put on people by custom

309
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that a lot of the bourgeoisie was trying to was

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trying to throw off and rid itself of. You know,

311
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that uh abolition of casts that began to happen in Europe.

312
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We had, like you know, we had this this lead

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that abolition of casts leading from a personal to an

314
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impersonal labor relation. We we had a version of that

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in the United States with when slavery ended. I mean,

316
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if you go back to the eighteen fifties again, you

317
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know the I think this was the eighteen forties if

318
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I remember right, but in the forties or fifties, I'm

319
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sure it hadn't improved much by the fifties. You know,

320
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an average, the average life expectancy of an Irish doc

321
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worker in the United States from the time he stepped

322
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off the boat was about fourteen years and so and

323
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these aren't old men that are coming. These are usually young,

324
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strapping guys looking for work. And so these are young

325
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guys showing up. They worked for fourteen years on the docks,

326
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and they get work to death, they die of disease

327
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and it's over. And you compare that to what you

328
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started to see in the South as the plantation system

329
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started to develop, and really even before that, I mean

330
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by almost any measure that you can think of, and

331
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this is really not you You even will read this

332
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in left wing articles and essays and stuff now sometimes

333
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is that you know, you can use healthcare, general health

334
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life epectancy, caloric intake, and just the macro you know,

335
00:20:04,920 --> 00:20:10,200
dietary intake, all the different housing, all the different measures

336
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that we would have for like quality of life. Your

337
00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:15,759
average slave on a Southern plantation had a better life

338
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than your average worker in a northern factory. I mean

339
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that is and you can say, well, the fact that

340
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he was bonded it outweighs all of that. And I

341
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think we're Americans, we all have some level of sympathy

342
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with that idea for sure, But if you're just looking

343
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at like material standard of living, it was just objectively

344
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better in every sense than your average northern factory worker.

345
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And that was because, you know, under slavery, there was

346
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still it was still a personal relationship and a sort

347
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of interdependency between the producer and the and the laborer.

348
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You know, they they saw these people as as as

349
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individuals they were, they were they were workers who were

350
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going to be with them for life. But also they

351
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saw their slaves as you know, esecially on the larger plantations.

352
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It's not just individuals, but as a community that actually

353
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needed to be preserved and nurtured in order to keep

354
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producing workers and have you know, healthy and productive workers.

355
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And so, you know, people are very surprised these days

356
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to go back and read about you know, you know,

357
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Christmas coming along in a given county in Mississippi and

358
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all the slaves from all the plantations around being given

359
00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:30,000
the month off and being given their their annual ration

360
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of whiskey by their you know, by their owners, and

361
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they all kind of go and hang out together on

362
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each others, on each other's plantations and have parties and

363
00:21:38,319 --> 00:21:40,400
hang out and like that kind of thing happened, and

364
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it was very it was it was very common, became

365
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the standard in a lot of places that things like

366
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that would happen. And you know a lot of people

367
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are very are very surprised to find that out, but

368
00:21:50,519 --> 00:21:54,599
they shouldn't be, you know, because again you have you know,

369
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you have to imagine these are people that you know,

370
00:21:58,039 --> 00:21:59,640
that that live with you, live on the same piece

371
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of proper pretty with you that you see every day

372
00:22:01,720 --> 00:22:04,480
people who if you're an owner, you know, and you

373
00:22:04,599 --> 00:22:08,759
inherited your slaves. The old lady who's cooking your food now,

374
00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:11,720
like you know, she used to babysit you and dad,

375
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and dad and mom were busy and you played with

376
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her kids growing up and everything. So it's a very

377
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personal relationship that when you moved into the factory system,

378
00:22:19,839 --> 00:22:21,799
you know, and it's very interesting that, like you know,

379
00:22:21,880 --> 00:22:25,720
the John Brown raid, for example, was financed by six

380
00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:30,279
northern industrialists whose workers were just treated terribly, you know,

381
00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:32,519
and Southerner. It's something that did not slip by the

382
00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:33,720
attention of Southerners.

383
00:22:33,799 --> 00:22:34,160
Speaker 2: Believe that.

384
00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:38,000
Speaker 4: But as you started to move into that impersonal labor

385
00:22:38,079 --> 00:22:43,160
relation humans became it was just it was incredibly dehumanizing.

386
00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:46,400
They got complete, the worker got completely abstracted from the

387
00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:51,680
process of production, and you know, discipline became much tighter,

388
00:22:51,839 --> 00:22:55,279
you know, relative to both slavery, which is against something

389
00:22:55,319 --> 00:22:58,960
that surprises people, as well as the workshop system where

390
00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:01,160
people often you know, work by peace or they would

391
00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:03,720
come in and they didn't have strict hours they had

392
00:23:03,799 --> 00:23:05,960
to keep or anything. They got paid when they worked

393
00:23:06,039 --> 00:23:10,039
and you know, didn't get paid when they didn't. Whereas

394
00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:12,880
you move into the factory system, where now you're you know,

395
00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:16,400
you're trying to serve essentially as far as they were concerned,

396
00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:20,240
in infinite market. You know, the reason the workshop system

397
00:23:20,279 --> 00:23:23,240
persisted as long as it did wasn't just because you

398
00:23:23,279 --> 00:23:26,480
didn't have the industrial machinery to churn everything out at

399
00:23:26,559 --> 00:23:28,960
the rate you would need to. It's just that, you know,

400
00:23:29,039 --> 00:23:33,680
it's hard to run a nationwide business without really good

401
00:23:33,799 --> 00:23:36,599
railroad and telegraph connections for example. I mean, if you

402
00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:38,559
just don't have those things, it's hard to run a

403
00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:42,359
large organization that spread out geographically. And so if you

404
00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:45,400
had a little operation, you were probably serving like this

405
00:23:45,599 --> 00:23:47,759
region of your state, and then over there they needed

406
00:23:47,759 --> 00:23:51,200
another one because a certain point, transporting it by horse

407
00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:54,359
just becomes cost prohibitive, you know, and so there's like

408
00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:58,759
a limitation on scale. That also gave workers options in

409
00:23:58,839 --> 00:24:01,680
terms of mobility. You know, they upset this boss, they

410
00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:04,559
can move fifty miles and go find another one. And

411
00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:07,359
as these things started to get consolidated, the power that

412
00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:09,160
went with that did as well. You had all the

413
00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:12,680
workers in one place, you had owners that you know,

414
00:24:12,839 --> 00:24:15,279
if they blacklisted you, there were only maybe two or

415
00:24:15,319 --> 00:24:17,440
three of them, and they met every Sunday for golf

416
00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:19,960
that you could maybe go work for after that. So

417
00:24:20,039 --> 00:24:22,799
you got to be much more compliant. And because they

418
00:24:22,839 --> 00:24:25,039
were trying to compete with others for this ship for

419
00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:27,880
a share of what to them was virtually an infinite market.

420
00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:32,200
I mean, you know, there's this pressure to produce as

421
00:24:32,319 --> 00:24:35,119
fast and as efficiently as possible that did not exist

422
00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:40,279
under the either slavery or under the workshop system. Really

423
00:24:40,319 --> 00:24:43,000
did work in the factory, you started to have, you know,

424
00:24:43,079 --> 00:24:45,480
instead of the master who owns the workshop with his

425
00:24:45,599 --> 00:24:50,119
journeymen and apprentices, you had stockholders and then a manager

426
00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:52,160
who was an employee of the firm and he was

427
00:24:52,279 --> 00:24:55,839
paid to extract output from the workers. That was what

428
00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:58,960
he was paid for, and that was what the shareholders want.

429
00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:00,920
So it was a very, very just different model of

430
00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:03,680
how you relate to what was quickly becoming like the

431
00:25:03,839 --> 00:25:04,920
mass of the population.

432
00:25:05,319 --> 00:25:08,680
Speaker 3: No, there is no comparison. I mean, people are just

433
00:25:08,759 --> 00:25:12,920
monumentally ignorant. If you were a Southern slave, you literally

434
00:25:13,079 --> 00:25:15,720
lived in the master's house. Like I love this idea.

435
00:25:15,799 --> 00:25:19,359
It's like so people who lived in the same house

436
00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:24,680
for generations you're telling me that when characterized slavery, which,

437
00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:28,319
by the way, slavery proceeds written the language, it's literally

438
00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:31,480
the only universal institution and it's the oldest one. You're

439
00:25:31,519 --> 00:25:35,599
telling me that Southern slaves they were beaten and tortured

440
00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:39,599
every single day, and they just hated the master cast

441
00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:42,000
and vice verse, like there's a monumental ignorance about a

442
00:25:42,039 --> 00:25:45,519
human beings relate, like that's not workable, among other things.

443
00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:51,359
And I like the book that Jungle Upton sinclear because

444
00:25:52,039 --> 00:25:55,359
I mean, increasingly nobody even remembers in the stockyards here existed.

445
00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:58,279
They closed, I think it's sixty eight. And even then

446
00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:02,960
it was the uh, the development of modern ancient h

447
00:26:03,039 --> 00:26:07,559
VAC and you know, refrigerated rail. You know that that's

448
00:26:07,599 --> 00:26:10,240
what did away with like the stockyards in Chicago because

449
00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:14,359
you know, you couldn't when you when you couldn't climate control,

450
00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:18,480
you know, the the storage environment. Obviously, you know you

451
00:26:18,599 --> 00:26:21,279
had to you had to slaughter animals here because it

452
00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:23,599
was like the central low guy that then you know,

453
00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:27,759
went out everywhere else. But you know, it's like, uh

454
00:26:30,039 --> 00:26:36,400
talking about uh comparing agrarian slavery to you know, the

455
00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:39,640
experience of some immigrant working at back of the yards

456
00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:44,000
or something like twenty percent of men die on the job,

457
00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:47,799
you know, and uh, the moment you get injured, it's

458
00:26:47,839 --> 00:26:51,599
basically a death sentence because you'll, you know, you'll you'll

459
00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:54,720
have no safety in that, you know, like comparing that

460
00:26:55,039 --> 00:26:57,559
to the experience of an ingrarian slave in the end

461
00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:02,079
bel himself. I mean, uh, that's like comparing a duel

462
00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:05,279
between rivals to the experience of getting cut to pieces

463
00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:07,880
at the psalm by a machine gun before even in

464
00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:09,720
visual range of the opposing force.

465
00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:11,079
Speaker 2: You know.

466
00:27:11,599 --> 00:27:15,519
Speaker 3: But it's but I mean, it's very curiated.

467
00:27:16,599 --> 00:27:16,759
Speaker 2: You know.

468
00:27:16,839 --> 00:27:24,160
Speaker 3: That's why if you ask even people who are nominally literate,

469
00:27:25,319 --> 00:27:27,240
like that's one of the wars when the States happened,

470
00:27:27,759 --> 00:27:32,400
they'll tell you that the South basically existed to torture

471
00:27:32,519 --> 00:27:36,720
black people, so they had to be liberated by the North.

472
00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:38,359
Speaker 4: You know.

473
00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:42,599
Speaker 3: It's there's just a monumental ignorance on the reality of

474
00:27:42,759 --> 00:27:46,599
historical processes and human affairs, you know. And to be

475
00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:53,319
clear too, traditionally, the traditional Marxist Leninis view is that

476
00:27:54,279 --> 00:27:58,720
trying to preserve slavery in order to extract profit from

477
00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:04,839
an outmoded production schema is a monstrous evil. But the

478
00:28:05,039 --> 00:28:09,680
idea that slavery none of itself is just this monumentally

479
00:28:09,799 --> 00:28:14,759
abominable thing. Nobody thinks that way other than really, other

480
00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:22,279
than modern liberals, you know, and uh, deranged people you know,

481
00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:26,680
like John Brown and his spiritual progeny. So yeah, all

482
00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:27,559
of that's important.

483
00:28:31,079 --> 00:28:34,559
Speaker 1: Well, it's it's like we were talking about on the

484
00:28:35,039 --> 00:28:41,960
on the show, is that if when you talk about Marx,

485
00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:44,359
you have to talk about what he got right, everybody

486
00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:46,599
wants to talk about what he got wrong and.

487
00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:51,720
Speaker 2: And his views on.

488
00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:57,640
Speaker 1: Capitalism and why he thought capitalism was necessary, why he

489
00:28:57,799 --> 00:29:00,839
was against tariffs, why he wanted free trade, and would

490
00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:05,680
even a champion laisse fair because it would harascinate and

491
00:29:05,799 --> 00:29:08,279
it would bring the people to the point where they

492
00:29:08,319 --> 00:29:11,920
would be more receptive to his beliefs, and that it

493
00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:15,759
would even happen organically. It's kind of kind of hard

494
00:29:15,839 --> 00:29:19,920
to argue that when you see what's what's happened in

495
00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:22,000
the last hundred and fifty hundred and seventy years, that

496
00:29:22,599 --> 00:29:23,160
he was wrong.

497
00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:27,279
Speaker 3: What I don't understand either, why these these kinds of

498
00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:31,079
kulture conservative types they love that they love the term

499
00:29:31,279 --> 00:29:34,759
capitalism and that's basically a Marxist term, you know, like

500
00:29:35,119 --> 00:29:37,480
like why why this kills deal college type saying like

501
00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:40,960
I love capitalism. It's like that you mean the free markets?

502
00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:45,799
You know, like you're not that's essentially a punitive uh

503
00:29:46,759 --> 00:29:54,839
neologism to describe a particular mode of labor and production schematics,

504
00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:59,079
you know, like it's not. Yeah, these same the same

505
00:29:59,279 --> 00:30:04,160
u people who claim that Kamala Harris is a Marxist

506
00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:08,960
and they hate Marxist, They're they're basically invoking Marxist conceptual

507
00:30:09,039 --> 00:30:12,799
vocabulary to describe what they think is, you know, the

508
00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:15,680
system they live under. It's it's it's very strange.

509
00:30:18,359 --> 00:30:21,720
Speaker 1: Well and one of the reasons, let me just yeah,

510
00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:26,359
and it's one of the reasons why you when people

511
00:30:26,519 --> 00:30:30,599
want to fight, when people fight against Marxism, they're like, well,

512
00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:33,559
the only way to fight against Marxism is to is

513
00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:36,559
to advocate for the free market. And it's like that's

514
00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:40,200
how I know you haven't read marx okay, because you'd

515
00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:43,160
be seeing all the telltale signs of everything that happened.

516
00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:47,680
So sorry, dal Good, I was gonna.

517
00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:51,720
Speaker 4: Say, like, you know, people really need to really have

518
00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:59,000
to like stop to force themselves to understand the the

519
00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:02,599
monumental nature of the changes in the economic and social

520
00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:04,559
system that were coming in the second half of the

521
00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:08,480
nineteenth century. You know, once you started to get the

522
00:31:08,599 --> 00:31:11,680
railroads and telegraph built out, and you started to have

523
00:31:11,839 --> 00:31:16,839
these massive firms with share with anonymous shareholders and hired

524
00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:19,640
managers that were shipping to the entire country or out

525
00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:24,400
of the country, even you know, you started to develop

526
00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:26,160
all of a sudden. I know, I know a lot

527
00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:29,079
of like conservative right wing types today they love to

528
00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:34,000
bashed Teddy Roosevelt because he's, you know, whatever you want

529
00:31:34,039 --> 00:31:36,400
to you know, he's a he's a he's an early

530
00:31:36,599 --> 00:31:40,640
socialist or state statist, you know, who wanted to curb

531
00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:42,599
whatever they you know, in that in the sort of

532
00:31:43,319 --> 00:31:47,400
libertarian capitalist capitalism terms that they use against him. But

533
00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:49,440
you know, I tell people all the time when they

534
00:31:49,599 --> 00:31:52,759
when they do that, you really have to understand the

535
00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:55,640
world that he was watching and the changes that were

536
00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:57,240
taking place, where all of a sudden, you have the

537
00:31:57,279 --> 00:32:01,640
emergence of these institutions with revenues that write states, with

538
00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:05,519
security forces that rival those of many like in the

539
00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:09,160
United States, certainly the national government, you know, and having

540
00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:12,799
just levels of power and control over masses of people

541
00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:18,240
across whole regions that could not be exercised by the

542
00:32:18,319 --> 00:32:20,400
state at the time. It didn't have the resources or

543
00:32:20,599 --> 00:32:22,519
just you know, things hadn't developed to the point where

544
00:32:22,559 --> 00:32:24,640
it felt like it had the right to do that.

545
00:32:24,759 --> 00:32:27,200
And so, you know, you had these massive institutions that

546
00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:30,359
were essentially competitors with the state. And Teddy Roosevelt was

547
00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:31,759
a guy who stepped in and he's like, we're not

548
00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:33,839
going to have that. That is not going to happen.

549
00:32:34,279 --> 00:32:37,240
You know, the state is going to maintain its supremacy

550
00:32:37,319 --> 00:32:41,519
over whatever these are becoming. That's the bottom line. You know,

551
00:32:42,359 --> 00:32:45,039
that's a starting point. And so and of course it

552
00:32:45,119 --> 00:32:46,880
has to be that way. We see what happens when

553
00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:50,079
it doesn't. You know, you get Ludlow Colorado, or you

554
00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:53,079
get you know, a lot of the Pinkerton massacres, and

555
00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:55,720
you know in the in the Steel Belt and in Chicago,

556
00:32:56,519 --> 00:33:00,519
and you know, as you start to move into that

557
00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:03,319
new era where people are being concentrated in cities and

558
00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:10,200
concentrated in workplaces and are not there as differentiated masters, journeymen, apprentices,

559
00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:12,559
They're just there as masses of workers. You start to

560
00:33:13,119 --> 00:33:17,000
you eventually hit this threshold that's sort of necessary for

561
00:33:17,119 --> 00:33:20,440
people to begin to organize and mobilize politically. You know,

562
00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:23,400
it's really hard to do if you're geographically distributed, and

563
00:33:23,559 --> 00:33:26,839
you have within the places where you are concentrated, you

564
00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:30,680
have status distinctions that you know that are really important,

565
00:33:30,799 --> 00:33:34,200
like master and apprentice. Once everybody's a worker, you know,

566
00:33:34,279 --> 00:33:38,359
you hit that certain threshold and people begin coalescing and

567
00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:41,559
eventually politically mobilizing. And you know, for a long time,

568
00:33:43,559 --> 00:33:45,400
I say this too, like, I'm very sympathetic to the

569
00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:49,880
nineteenth century labor movement for a million reasons. When you know,

570
00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:53,119
I read about labor conflicts, I root for the labor people,

571
00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:55,440
even if there's a bunch of anarchists and crazy people

572
00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:57,119
with them, I always root for them because I don't

573
00:33:57,200 --> 00:34:04,400
like pinkertons. And you know, the the to give the

574
00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:07,480
ownership class sort of it's you know, it's due.

575
00:34:08,119 --> 00:34:08,320
Speaker 2: Though.

576
00:34:08,679 --> 00:34:10,639
Speaker 4: You have to understand they were dealing with the changing

577
00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:13,119
world too. You know, they were dealing with this world

578
00:34:13,119 --> 00:34:15,840
where all of a sudden, I mean, they saw the

579
00:34:16,199 --> 00:34:19,519
emergence of the working class, the mobilized working class, the

580
00:34:19,639 --> 00:34:25,400
mobilized masses of workers. As like I think they somebody

581
00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:27,480
out there had to have even used this maybe, you

582
00:34:27,559 --> 00:34:29,840
know what. One of the intros to one of Hobswam's books,

583
00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:31,559
I think he quotes somebody who does say that these

584
00:34:31,599 --> 00:34:34,639
are basically the visigoths. These are the barbarians that are

585
00:34:34,679 --> 00:34:37,880
now forming up to tear down this thing that we've

586
00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:39,760
all built. And that's kind of how they saw it.

587
00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:42,159
And you know, from their perspective, nobody had ever seen

588
00:34:42,159 --> 00:34:44,679
anything like this before. You know, they just knew that

589
00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:47,599
there was this urban rabble that was sort of a

590
00:34:47,679 --> 00:34:50,400
black box you couldn't quite see inside, who were starting

591
00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:52,519
to get restless and dangerous, and.

592
00:34:54,599 --> 00:34:55,000
Speaker 2: All of the.

593
00:34:55,039 --> 00:34:58,239
Speaker 4: Traditional modes of social control to kind of keep them

594
00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:01,239
in line were they evaporated with the social changes that

595
00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:01,800
took place.

596
00:35:02,519 --> 00:35:03,239
Speaker 2: You know, all of the.

597
00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:07,239
Speaker 4: Customs that would have governed how the ownership class related

598
00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:10,360
to their workers and treated their workers had evaporated. But

599
00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:14,079
at the same time, that automatic deference that the workers

600
00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:17,960
had for the classes above them evaporated as well. And

601
00:35:18,039 --> 00:35:21,440
so there's this brewing conflict that different countries are figuring

602
00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:23,679
out how to how to manage, you know, in different ways.

603
00:35:23,719 --> 00:35:27,280
If you look at like England, for example, you know,

604
00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:30,519
Mark's got most of his most of his theory from

605
00:35:30,639 --> 00:35:33,480
watching English mills and English industry like you know, in

606
00:35:33,559 --> 00:35:36,159
his day and seeing how it was developing and working.

607
00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:38,480
But you know, England is one of those countries that

608
00:35:38,599 --> 00:35:41,760
like they really found this sort of accommodation where you know,

609
00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:46,599
the the gentry and the aristocracy that was falling you know,

610
00:35:47,519 --> 00:35:51,239
below the bourgeoisie in terms of wealth production because of

611
00:35:52,159 --> 00:35:55,119
you know, industrial agriculture and other things driving down the

612
00:35:55,159 --> 00:35:59,239
prices of commodities, which was their source of wealth. You know,

613
00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:03,119
they would enter with the rich bourgeoisie and they would

614
00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:06,000
you know, find ways to sort of meld their two

615
00:36:06,039 --> 00:36:09,360
classes together and in other ways. In other countries where

616
00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:14,239
they're the distinction between uh commoner and and and aristocrat

617
00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:18,960
was was much starker, and especially in countries where you know,

618
00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:22,679
they didn't have a sort of a history of a

619
00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:29,000
long at least history and tradition of of royal absolutism

620
00:36:29,159 --> 00:36:32,079
and had a tradition instead of uh, sort of more

621
00:36:32,159 --> 00:36:34,800
powerful lords and a broken up polity. In that sense,

622
00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:37,880
you know, it was a much slower road to the

623
00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:41,280
sort of national project that I think is really the

624
00:36:42,119 --> 00:36:44,320
that's the that's sort of the the incubator that the

625
00:36:44,559 --> 00:36:46,880
that a real labor movement has to has to grow in.

626
00:36:50,639 --> 00:36:53,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's true. I'd say the Germans did it better

627
00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:55,920
than the UK. The UK has a problem.

628
00:36:56,119 --> 00:36:56,480
Speaker 2: I mean this.

629
00:36:58,199 --> 00:37:00,519
Speaker 3: Part of this is because the U case aways been

630
00:37:00,559 --> 00:37:03,719
a divided society and it's never been a homogeneous polity

631
00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:07,360
at all. And that's this is abou outside the scope?

632
00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:10,920
Is this hinted at in the book Albion Seed. I

633
00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:14,519
go a little bit further. I think there's, uh, there's

634
00:37:14,559 --> 00:37:17,400
an ethnic dynamic to the to the to the caste

635
00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:23,280
system in the UK. I everyone's believe that, but uh,

636
00:37:24,559 --> 00:37:28,280
there's there were certain disadvantages of the cultivation of uh

637
00:37:29,119 --> 00:37:33,159
United Body politic and to this date or something. And

638
00:37:33,199 --> 00:37:35,360
again I don't know how the conversation. There's something wrong

639
00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:37,679
with the UK in the manner in which the classes

640
00:37:37,840 --> 00:37:41,079
relate like this is one of the raised like Boris Johnson,

641
00:37:41,119 --> 00:37:43,960
he literally like knew the entire country like on his

642
00:37:44,039 --> 00:37:46,719
way out the door. Nobody does that, Like only the

643
00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:54,519
UK does that? You know, but pas it may the

644
00:37:54,719 --> 00:37:58,119
uh one of one of the reasons too, you see

645
00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:06,159
why and how it uh you know, the this is

646
00:38:06,159 --> 00:38:09,760
the point I raised the people. And uh, this is

647
00:38:09,880 --> 00:38:15,440
changing because even even even the most kind of non

648
00:38:15,519 --> 00:38:19,480
observant Dullard kind of detect the writing on the wall

649
00:38:19,679 --> 00:38:23,559
historically when people they say stupid things as if you know,

650
00:38:23,719 --> 00:38:27,599
the left just in in kind of broad strokes terms,

651
00:38:28,239 --> 00:38:33,000
is is is unbeatable because it's just it's just got

652
00:38:33,039 --> 00:38:36,440
this momentum of history, in this kind of monolithic power

653
00:38:36,559 --> 00:38:39,880
to sway people's opinions. The left is dead. You know,

654
00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:42,559
they they did they had nothing to salvage after nineteen

655
00:38:42,559 --> 00:38:46,719
eighty nine, you know, they had, Uh, they have these

656
00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:51,119
grotesque characters like like Piggy Bill Clinton, you know who

657
00:38:53,039 --> 00:38:56,000
who Uh, you know, we're in the pocket of financial

658
00:38:56,119 --> 00:38:59,880
capital and basically try to swap out you know, he

659
00:39:00,119 --> 00:39:06,880
donic distractions for uh, you know, labor concerns. But I

660
00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:12,320
mean that's that's a hollow core, you know. There you

661
00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:16,800
can you can tell how fake the regime is that uh,

662
00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:20,280
because they're they're basically after nineteen eighty nine and like,

663
00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:25,079
absent this kind of interference by social engineering and structural

664
00:39:25,239 --> 00:39:31,119
obstacles to you know, the majority actually expressing what would

665
00:39:31,159 --> 00:39:34,280
be it's its instinctive will, there would have been a

666
00:39:35,159 --> 00:39:38,079
parent incumbancy of what pass for the right wing, at

667
00:39:38,159 --> 00:39:43,559
least in America and conceptual terms, you know, because because

668
00:39:43,559 --> 00:39:48,519
there there is no left anymore, you know, uh as

669
00:39:48,599 --> 00:39:56,360
as as impoverished as a as mega is, there at

670
00:39:56,440 --> 00:39:59,079
least is a core of you know, pronosent may be

671
00:40:00,800 --> 00:40:05,639
intelligible historically animating principles there like there there there's nothing

672
00:40:06,639 --> 00:40:10,199
in in their nominal opposition like that. That's why pretend

673
00:40:10,280 --> 00:40:14,519
president shithead like like it was pointed looking at Biden,

674
00:40:14,599 --> 00:40:16,920
he's literally this like demented old man who can barely

675
00:40:17,039 --> 00:40:19,559
stand up. I mean that that is the American left

676
00:40:19,679 --> 00:40:24,280
right there. If it was a person, that's it. The

677
00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:26,800
only thing more like that that was that same like

678
00:40:26,880 --> 00:40:29,519
pointing I can think of and in terms of living

679
00:40:29,599 --> 00:40:34,079
kind of metaphor of an abstract idea was ah was

680
00:40:34,840 --> 00:40:37,960
you know dotting old cheron Anko And people gasped when

681
00:40:37,960 --> 00:40:39,559
they saw him because it's like, this is the mighty

682
00:40:39,639 --> 00:40:41,880
Soviet Union. Like some guy with a mother, I might

683
00:40:41,920 --> 00:40:43,440
have a child who doesn't know where the fuck he is,

684
00:40:44,400 --> 00:40:48,719
you know, so it's like, don't don't tell me that

685
00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:51,519
the left, whatever people think that is in twenty twenty five,

686
00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:55,360
is somehow a stride history. There's there's nothing, there's literally

687
00:40:55,480 --> 00:40:59,760
nothing there. You know, they hold parade whe people talk

688
00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:04,159
about anal SEPs. Wow, that's pretty monumental.

689
00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:08,920
Speaker 1: And they're even worse, And they're even worse in Europe. Yeah,

690
00:41:08,920 --> 00:41:10,880
I mean they're more far gone in Europe, which is

691
00:41:10,920 --> 00:41:14,559
why and Australia, and you're starting to see things happen

692
00:41:14,679 --> 00:41:15,519
in all these places.

693
00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:19,280
Speaker 3: Well yeah, exactly because I mean the center, the center

694
00:41:19,360 --> 00:41:24,199
cannot hold. It's uh, you know, but there is there

695
00:41:24,320 --> 00:41:28,280
isn't all go back as in a second I uh,

696
00:41:29,599 --> 00:41:35,039
there's many exciting things about uh, you know, the present age.

697
00:41:35,079 --> 00:41:37,360
So all kinds of stuff is possible in terms of

698
00:41:37,360 --> 00:41:40,559
the mobility at capital and stuff and the ability that

699
00:41:40,679 --> 00:41:44,280
to raise and utilize capital remotely like literally from anywhere

700
00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:50,320
like these days. Uh, you know, you can really stick

701
00:41:50,360 --> 00:41:54,440
out your own path and monetize your your skill set

702
00:41:54,559 --> 00:41:57,360
in a way that was unthinkable even thirty years ago.

703
00:41:58,199 --> 00:41:58,360
Speaker 4: You know.

704
00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:04,239
Speaker 3: This is what's making nullification truly possible, you know. And

705
00:42:04,480 --> 00:42:09,800
uh this, uh, there's an economic aspect to social capital

706
00:42:10,159 --> 00:42:16,000
that isn't paramount because obviously life isn't. Uh, the business

707
00:42:16,159 --> 00:42:20,199
of of personal finance and economics. But obviously that that

708
00:42:20,400 --> 00:42:25,440
is important, you know, and that's not talked about enough.

709
00:42:26,320 --> 00:42:26,480
Speaker 4: You know.

710
00:42:27,639 --> 00:42:29,360
Speaker 3: I talk about it with you guys, and like I

711
00:42:29,440 --> 00:42:34,440
talk about it, you know, privately with friends of ours.

712
00:42:34,519 --> 00:42:37,159
But that's something that's not emphasized enough. And that's why

713
00:42:37,239 --> 00:42:39,320
increasingly man. I mean, I'm not trying to be cavalier,

714
00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:43,199
but when like randos are like it's like hopeless, I

715
00:42:43,280 --> 00:42:45,639
work at x y Z company and blah blah sucks,

716
00:42:45,679 --> 00:42:48,119
I'm like, this's your fucking problem, you know, because you're like,

717
00:42:48,679 --> 00:42:51,519
it's this isn't nineteen ninety man, Like you're not. You

718
00:42:51,559 --> 00:42:53,719
don't need to go work for x y Z company.

719
00:42:54,400 --> 00:42:56,519
You don't need to do that. You know when I

720
00:42:56,679 --> 00:43:00,559
was young, you did need to do that. And people

721
00:43:00,559 --> 00:43:03,760
who can't see their way out of that are fucked up.

722
00:43:04,280 --> 00:43:07,800
I think I don't mean to be I got to

723
00:43:07,840 --> 00:43:10,840
raise up in a minutes. I got dinner plans, so

724
00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:14,719
don't I'm not. I got like another five minutes. But

725
00:43:14,760 --> 00:43:16,400
I didn't want to be like a rude dick and

726
00:43:16,519 --> 00:43:17,199
just like get up.

727
00:43:17,119 --> 00:43:22,800
Speaker 1: In bounce, yeah, let me hang out a little biteah, yeah,

728
00:43:23,000 --> 00:43:24,599
I can chill And I would love to do a

729
00:43:24,639 --> 00:43:25,039
part two.

730
00:43:25,199 --> 00:43:26,880
Speaker 4: Uh, with all three of us again one of these

731
00:43:26,960 --> 00:43:28,920
days you want to carry on the conversation. But if

732
00:43:28,960 --> 00:43:32,000
we have, if we have just a few more minutes

733
00:43:32,039 --> 00:43:34,039
with Thomas, I want to like just maybe have you

734
00:43:34,119 --> 00:43:34,880
comment on one thing.

735
00:43:35,400 --> 00:43:38,639
Speaker 3: Yeah, man, that's something I'm very interested in now twice. Yeah,

736
00:43:38,679 --> 00:43:39,360
but don't go ahead.

737
00:43:39,719 --> 00:43:43,760
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's you know, I have kind of got a

738
00:43:43,760 --> 00:43:46,440
little obsessed with the history of your city, the city

739
00:43:46,480 --> 00:43:48,079
of Chicago, for a while when I was doing my

740
00:43:48,159 --> 00:43:52,119
labor series, And it's just because you know, you can

741
00:43:52,239 --> 00:43:56,880
really almost you can tell the story of the United

742
00:43:56,920 --> 00:44:00,679
States basically through the history of Chicago, certainly the whole

743
00:44:00,719 --> 00:44:02,920
Western United States because of the way they kind of

744
00:44:02,960 --> 00:44:06,360
developed together, you know, to the extent that infrastructure for

745
00:44:06,480 --> 00:44:10,960
supporting the outlying regions in the West. For the you know,

746
00:44:11,360 --> 00:44:14,119
Chicago was obviously the hub of all that, you know,

747
00:44:14,239 --> 00:44:17,800
shipping out the manufactured goods and the all the everything

748
00:44:17,880 --> 00:44:20,480
from barbed wire to timber to everything else that was

749
00:44:20,559 --> 00:44:24,079
actually building out the West. It could only go as

750
00:44:24,159 --> 00:44:27,320
fast as Chicago's infrastructure for that kind of thing was expanding,

751
00:44:27,480 --> 00:44:32,000
and how fast Chicago could process the commodities that were

752
00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:33,960
being shipped back from the West and get them shipped

753
00:44:33,960 --> 00:44:35,599
out to the East and everything, and you really can't

754
00:44:35,639 --> 00:44:38,079
tell the history of a large part at least the

755
00:44:38,119 --> 00:44:40,639
economic history and social history of the United States through

756
00:44:40,760 --> 00:44:42,880
that particular lens. And I won't know if you have

757
00:44:42,920 --> 00:44:45,079
any thoughts on just Chicago's role and all that.

758
00:44:45,960 --> 00:44:51,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's affirmative, and it's also fascinating because Chicago's literally

759
00:44:51,360 --> 00:44:54,440
the center of the Connell the United States, you know,

760
00:44:55,840 --> 00:44:59,880
and did agree to which Lake Michigan is a freshwater ocean.

761
00:45:01,559 --> 00:45:03,800
Like it's incredible. I spend a lot of time at

762
00:45:03,800 --> 00:45:06,159
the beach here, and like people don't like it really

763
00:45:06,280 --> 00:45:09,599
is a third coast. I've got some bases for comparison

764
00:45:09,679 --> 00:45:11,599
because I spent so much my early life in la

765
00:45:11,760 --> 00:45:15,239
and stuff. You know, I've been to the Pacific Coast

766
00:45:15,280 --> 00:45:21,559
a lot. There's still a huge amount of waterborne commerce

767
00:45:21,639 --> 00:45:24,159
on Lake Michigan. You know, there's a lot of shipwrecks

768
00:45:24,480 --> 00:45:26,960
and up in Lake County. It's a little bit north,

769
00:45:27,079 --> 00:45:30,039
but on a really clear day from the right vantage point,

770
00:45:30,159 --> 00:45:32,199
you can see a couple of the shipwrecks from the

771
00:45:32,280 --> 00:45:38,760
shore as well. But yeah, that's well, it's also one

772
00:45:38,760 --> 00:45:41,679
of the few things that's kept Chicago from becoming a

773
00:45:41,800 --> 00:45:47,280
glorified Detroit. Unfortunately, I think that's what's happening now. But no,

774
00:45:47,519 --> 00:45:51,679
it's uh. That's also why I've tried to explain to people,

775
00:45:52,320 --> 00:45:56,719
because people don't understand this place from without. It's for

776
00:45:57,000 --> 00:45:59,440
a metro area of like five million people. It's kind

777
00:45:59,480 --> 00:46:04,880
of weirdly slur here, you know, but like Chicago isn't liberal.

778
00:46:05,440 --> 00:46:08,000
Like in fact, when like Boogie's visiting from the coast,

779
00:46:08,760 --> 00:46:11,400
they recoil in horror and say, like white Chicago was

780
00:46:11,480 --> 00:46:15,639
like horrible and racist and like retrograde, which is fucking funny,

781
00:46:15,840 --> 00:46:17,440
you know, Like I think they takes some pride in it,

782
00:46:17,639 --> 00:46:22,280
but they people don't understand that. The reason why like

783
00:46:22,400 --> 00:46:26,199
traditionally like a Democrat machine ran Chicago is because of

784
00:46:26,199 --> 00:46:29,199
the legacy the labor movement. It's not because Chicago's full

785
00:46:29,239 --> 00:46:33,199
of guys who love Bill Clinton and Kamala Harris, like

786
00:46:33,320 --> 00:46:41,000
that's retarded, you know. It's because uh, I mean there's

787
00:46:41,000 --> 00:46:44,280
there's exceptions, like Big Jim Thompson is still like revered

788
00:46:44,320 --> 00:46:46,440
as as like a great man kind of an Illinois

789
00:46:48,079 --> 00:46:49,679
but he was like a one off, you know, Like

790
00:46:49,840 --> 00:46:53,880
it's uh, it's uh being a Republican. It's kind of

791
00:46:53,920 --> 00:46:56,199
a dirty word here, and it's not for the reasons

792
00:46:56,239 --> 00:46:58,280
it is on the coast, you know. It's for the

793
00:46:58,360 --> 00:47:02,440
reasons you said, relating to the labor movement. But there's

794
00:47:02,440 --> 00:47:06,079
also there's an intensity to politics here that it's kind

795
00:47:06,119 --> 00:47:08,760
of rare, you know. Like Irvine Welsh, he's the guy

796
00:47:08,760 --> 00:47:11,480
who wrote Train Spotting. He's an interesting guy, you know,

797
00:47:11,559 --> 00:47:16,880
and he's he uh, he lived in Chicago for several years,

798
00:47:17,159 --> 00:47:19,119
and he said Chicago is the only American city that

799
00:47:19,199 --> 00:47:24,000
reminds him of Belfast, including like the ethnic and racial geography,

800
00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:27,039
you know, like Chicago is like block by block, it's

801
00:47:27,079 --> 00:47:30,880
like divided, like every hood is like divided by ethnos

802
00:47:31,000 --> 00:47:33,800
and race and stuff. And that's one of the reasons

803
00:47:33,840 --> 00:47:42,480
why despite what these Fox News uh jagos, I think,

804
00:47:43,440 --> 00:47:45,159
like first of all, you don't just get like shot

805
00:47:45,199 --> 00:47:47,719
in the face, like as a neutron if you're walking

806
00:47:47,760 --> 00:47:49,679
around in Chicago, Like if we don't live in like

807
00:47:49,679 --> 00:47:54,599
a state of anarchy, like bodies get dropped at certain

808
00:47:54,880 --> 00:47:58,880
interface zones and stuff. But you know, people here actually

809
00:47:59,480 --> 00:48:03,679
because of the those like formal divisions, people actually show

810
00:48:03,760 --> 00:48:06,280
each other a fair amount of respect at distance, because

811
00:48:06,760 --> 00:48:09,400
if if you go on disrespecting other races, you got

812
00:48:09,480 --> 00:48:13,559
a real problem, including white folks, like you can't come

813
00:48:13,599 --> 00:48:17,960
at us like that, you will have a problem. But

814
00:48:18,159 --> 00:48:22,719
that that really informed things too. And uh, you know,

815
00:48:22,800 --> 00:48:25,679
one of my one thing that's fascinating is like when

816
00:48:25,679 --> 00:48:27,199
I was practicing law, and I'd have to go to

817
00:48:27,280 --> 00:48:32,920
the dirks and building that replaced the old Federal Court

818
00:48:33,000 --> 00:48:37,039
building because anarchists blew it up and one of the

819
00:48:37,119 --> 00:48:41,880
only artifacts that survived intact was this giant iron gate

820
00:48:42,079 --> 00:48:45,440
with the US Federal seal on it. So if you

821
00:48:45,519 --> 00:48:49,679
go up to there's this kind of ceremonial court room

822
00:48:49,760 --> 00:48:52,679
on the I think it's on the eleventh floor where

823
00:48:52,679 --> 00:48:59,320
they they'll hold like meetings there and stuff. But outside

824
00:48:59,320 --> 00:49:01,639
of it bhydla as they still got like the gate

825
00:49:01,760 --> 00:49:05,760
that's intact from when the old Federal CoreOS got blown

826
00:49:05,840 --> 00:49:10,599
up by anarchists. You know, And like I said a

827
00:49:10,639 --> 00:49:14,559
minute ago, it's not an accident that Upton Sinclair's book

828
00:49:14,719 --> 00:49:19,519
was about, you know, the stockyards here. Plus that's a

829
00:49:20,119 --> 00:49:24,000
that's uniquely brutal kind of labor, like working in a slaughterhouse.

830
00:49:24,880 --> 00:49:28,519
It's dangerous because you're around all those blades and stuff.

831
00:49:29,400 --> 00:49:32,320
In those days, you know, the the animals are dangerous

832
00:49:32,320 --> 00:49:34,199
because the animals know what's going on. They're trying to

833
00:49:34,239 --> 00:49:39,280
get away, They're gonna die. And you know, it's crowded,

834
00:49:39,320 --> 00:49:44,000
it's dirty. I mean, you cut yourself. Uh there, there's

835
00:49:44,239 --> 00:49:46,320
there's animal blood. And to try this everywhere you can

836
00:49:46,320 --> 00:49:49,519
get an infection and lose your freaking limb or something.

837
00:49:50,360 --> 00:49:50,519
Speaker 2: You know.

838
00:49:50,599 --> 00:49:54,760
Speaker 3: That was kind of the zenith of brutal industrial labor.

839
00:49:54,840 --> 00:49:58,480
You're you're literally killing and then slaughtering animals at massive

840
00:49:58,559 --> 00:50:02,239
scale and in this actory setting where pretty much everything

841
00:50:02,320 --> 00:50:07,199
can hurt you, you know. And uh, most cities, I mean,

842
00:50:07,199 --> 00:50:08,960
don't get me wrong, especially in the East Coast. He

843
00:50:09,039 --> 00:50:13,360
had plenty of you had, you had plenty of guys

844
00:50:13,440 --> 00:50:17,599
were in slaughterhouses, but not at that massive scale, you know.

845
00:50:17,760 --> 00:50:20,719
And uh, like I said, this endured until the sixties,

846
00:50:21,440 --> 00:50:25,559
which is uh nuts. But that's that's something I get

847
00:50:25,559 --> 00:50:30,480
into a lot as I think you guys know you

848
00:50:30,559 --> 00:50:33,599
know that that that the model of uh that Chicago

849
00:50:33,679 --> 00:50:36,440
was built on. I mean big, I think cities are important.

850
00:50:36,480 --> 00:50:39,440
I mean, I'm a city slicker myself. They're important for

851
00:50:39,519 --> 00:50:42,159
cultural reasons and like Gerbel said, you got to control.

852
00:50:42,239 --> 00:50:44,039
You can't just see the city to the enemy, or

853
00:50:44,079 --> 00:50:48,079
you're not in the game putically or you know, socio culturally.

854
00:50:48,719 --> 00:50:53,280
But uh, cities are obsolete, man like they they they

855
00:50:53,440 --> 00:50:56,760
belong to a national economic the era of national economics,

856
00:50:57,599 --> 00:51:01,000
and they were built up as worker barracks, you know,

857
00:51:01,159 --> 00:51:06,239
and uh everything about them from housing patterns to uh,

858
00:51:07,559 --> 00:51:11,079
you know, the to the to the the urban planning

859
00:51:12,719 --> 00:51:16,760
to uh the fact that uh, you know, in America

860
00:51:16,840 --> 00:51:19,679
and in a lot of American cities besly Chicago like

861
00:51:20,039 --> 00:51:22,719
like these it's not his mother Jones actually point out

862
00:51:22,719 --> 00:51:26,480
that the Highway like divided like white I thn Chicago

863
00:51:26,559 --> 00:51:29,440
from the hood, and that wasn't because we're all assholes

864
00:51:29,559 --> 00:51:31,119
or a mean to black you was to keep these

865
00:51:31,159 --> 00:51:35,719
populations from from its basically basically American version of a

866
00:51:35,800 --> 00:51:39,039
peace wall is the Highway, Okay, but uh, all of

867
00:51:39,079 --> 00:51:44,800
that owes to the reality of national evaluated production at

868
00:51:44,840 --> 00:51:48,519
scale by fixed capital. You know, cities. Cities are dead.

869
00:51:48,639 --> 00:51:50,079
It's like an economic uh.

870
00:51:51,519 --> 00:51:52,280
Speaker 4: Uh model.

871
00:51:52,920 --> 00:51:57,079
Speaker 3: You know, the future is uh is a is uh

872
00:51:57,519 --> 00:52:01,280
like large towns, you know, and in small cities a

873
00:52:01,400 --> 00:52:06,119
like eighty to two hundred thousand people at the outer expanse.

874
00:52:06,800 --> 00:52:09,000
You know, there's not and I mean people don't seem

875
00:52:09,039 --> 00:52:13,159
to realize this, you know, among other things. But this

876
00:52:13,280 --> 00:52:14,800
is and then that's a good thing. Much as I

877
00:52:15,000 --> 00:52:17,400
like Chicago and I like New York City too, New

878
00:52:17,519 --> 00:52:20,519
York City is really cool, and I even like Baltimore,

879
00:52:20,559 --> 00:52:23,360
and I stay out there even though it's fubar. So

880
00:52:23,400 --> 00:52:25,920
I'm the last person who's gonna trash cities. But I

881
00:52:26,039 --> 00:52:28,119
realize that there are effects of a bygone era.

882
00:52:28,840 --> 00:52:28,960
Speaker 2: You know.

883
00:52:29,079 --> 00:52:34,079
Speaker 3: The future is living in a town of fifty thousand

884
00:52:34,119 --> 00:52:38,840
people and sixty thousand people that's pedestrian friendly and most

885
00:52:38,920 --> 00:52:40,880
people work remotely or do their own thing.

886
00:52:41,800 --> 00:52:41,960
Speaker 4: You know.

887
00:52:42,280 --> 00:52:45,079
Speaker 3: It's and that's great because that's a lot more healthy

888
00:52:45,239 --> 00:52:47,679
than we'll character the twentieth century. But yeah, this is

889
00:52:47,719 --> 00:52:50,800
important stuff. And again I'm sorry for being abrupt. It's

890
00:52:51,119 --> 00:52:53,039
it's labor day. Some of the fellows are in town,

891
00:52:53,079 --> 00:52:55,480
and I gotta play host, which is great. I'm not complaining,

892
00:52:55,599 --> 00:52:59,239
but it means my time doesn't totally belonged to me today.

893
00:52:59,679 --> 00:53:02,599
But I appreciate you guys inviting me him, and thank you.

894
00:53:03,880 --> 00:53:05,599
Speaker 2: Yeah, I could talk to Daryl for a little while.

895
00:53:06,280 --> 00:53:11,039
Speaker 3: Okay, good job, what's up. I'm sorry, good to talk

896
00:53:11,079 --> 00:53:11,480
to you, brother.

897
00:53:11,519 --> 00:53:12,920
Speaker 2: Take care. Yeah.

898
00:53:13,079 --> 00:53:16,119
Speaker 3: Likewise, we'll reconvene if I if you guys want to

899
00:53:16,159 --> 00:53:17,840
do a part two, we'll reconvene and I'll be able

900
00:53:17,880 --> 00:53:22,719
to dedicate a block of time longer than today. Yeah,

901
00:53:22,800 --> 00:53:27,000
thank you, fellows, and very much. Man, yep, take care, man,

902
00:53:27,440 --> 00:53:27,760
you too.

903
00:53:30,639 --> 00:53:36,039
Speaker 1: So here's the question I have, all right, the violence,

904
00:53:36,679 --> 00:53:39,920
like the Haymarket affair, things like that. Do you think

905
00:53:39,960 --> 00:53:44,199
that was organic due to the conditions on the ground

906
00:53:44,320 --> 00:53:47,599
and what everything was everybody was going to or through

907
00:53:47,800 --> 00:53:49,920
or how much do you think it also had to

908
00:53:50,000 --> 00:53:53,280
do with the zeitgeist and just the revolutionary spirit that

909
00:53:53,480 --> 00:53:55,119
was building up throughout Europe.

910
00:53:55,360 --> 00:53:59,079
Speaker 4: Yeah, so it really depends on the incidents you're talking about, right,

911
00:53:59,280 --> 00:54:02,039
like the the Haymarket affair, which I have a very

912
00:54:02,119 --> 00:54:06,159
contrarian take on. We can talk about that if you want.

913
00:54:06,239 --> 00:54:10,760
But you know, the Haymarket affair was driven by anarchists

914
00:54:10,760 --> 00:54:14,320
who are essentially from that eighteen forty eight lineage from Bohemia.

915
00:54:14,480 --> 00:54:17,039
You know, it's the Czech Republic played Southern Germany now

916
00:54:17,519 --> 00:54:20,239
and so very radical, you know, very much driven by

917
00:54:20,280 --> 00:54:25,280
that when you look at the coal Miner uprising, the

918
00:54:25,440 --> 00:54:29,159
minor one in West Virginia, the Minor Minor Uprising in

919
00:54:29,280 --> 00:54:35,199
nineteen eleven, you know that had the miner's movement there

920
00:54:35,360 --> 00:54:37,840
was like shot through with communists and anarchists who were

921
00:54:37,880 --> 00:54:39,559
really kind of driving it to a point that it

922
00:54:39,599 --> 00:54:42,519
didn't need to come to and put a sour taste

923
00:54:42,559 --> 00:54:44,199
in a lot of people's mouths, so that when the

924
00:54:44,440 --> 00:54:48,039
Battle Blair Mountain came along ten years later, there were

925
00:54:48,079 --> 00:54:50,360
no communists around, there were no anarchists. This is just

926
00:54:50,400 --> 00:54:54,280
an entirely organic coal miner movement, you know, who was

927
00:54:54,360 --> 00:54:57,280
basically who were basically pissed off at the local authorities

928
00:54:57,320 --> 00:54:59,519
in the mine guard system, you know. And so I

929
00:54:59,559 --> 00:55:01,840
really kind of depends on where you're talking about and

930
00:55:02,000 --> 00:55:06,800
what people uh were populating the movement you know, at

931
00:55:06,840 --> 00:55:09,719
that time, depending on which immigrant group it was, because

932
00:55:09,800 --> 00:55:12,320
most of this stuff was driven by immigrant groups, partly

933
00:55:12,519 --> 00:55:14,920
just because they were the ones doing a lot of

934
00:55:14,960 --> 00:55:18,119
the industrial labor, but also because they came from a

935
00:55:18,199 --> 00:55:22,119
Europe that already had a tradition of organizing and revolution

936
00:55:22,280 --> 00:55:24,159
and doing this kind of thing. And so you know,

937
00:55:24,239 --> 00:55:27,960
you didn't find a whole lot of they existed, for sure,

938
00:55:28,079 --> 00:55:30,760
but you didn't find a whole lot of you know,

939
00:55:31,159 --> 00:55:35,440
Anglo or assimilated sort of Old German Jewish like you know,

940
00:55:35,760 --> 00:55:38,519
like labor movement people or anything, because they kind of

941
00:55:38,599 --> 00:55:41,519
moved past that and there in their socioeconomic development and so.

942
00:55:43,679 --> 00:55:43,840
Speaker 2: And so.

943
00:55:43,960 --> 00:55:46,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, really, just it really does kind of depend on

944
00:55:46,039 --> 00:55:48,159
where you're talking about. You know, one of the things

945
00:55:48,159 --> 00:55:51,760
I wanted to mention too is, you know, another reason

946
00:55:51,920 --> 00:55:54,840
Chicago's so interesting is that's where, because of you know,

947
00:55:54,920 --> 00:55:57,599
it was the main collection and distribution point for all

948
00:55:57,679 --> 00:55:58,840
the commodities coming out.

949
00:55:58,760 --> 00:55:59,199
Speaker 2: Of the West.

950
00:55:59,519 --> 00:56:02,519
Speaker 4: That's where the Chicago Border Trade and the Mercantile Exchange

951
00:56:02,519 --> 00:56:04,760
were set up. And you know that's what really turned

952
00:56:04,760 --> 00:56:08,079
the commodities trade into the sort of national and then

953
00:56:08,159 --> 00:56:10,760
international market that it is today. And you had this,

954
00:56:11,239 --> 00:56:13,440
I mean today, this is so normal for us to

955
00:56:13,519 --> 00:56:17,559
think about. So it's just you know, we just take

956
00:56:17,599 --> 00:56:19,280
it as part of the you know, the business cycle,

957
00:56:19,360 --> 00:56:22,519
as part of just how the economy works. And so

958
00:56:22,639 --> 00:56:26,039
when we have something, uh, you know like the Great Depression,

959
00:56:27,119 --> 00:56:32,440
where there's no famine, there's no war, there's no natural

960
00:56:32,559 --> 00:56:35,920
disaster that you know, well, we had the dust bawl, obviously,

961
00:56:36,039 --> 00:56:37,760
but like, that's not what caused the Great Depression.

962
00:56:38,599 --> 00:56:38,760
Speaker 2: You know.

963
00:56:38,800 --> 00:56:41,119
Speaker 4: It wasn't as if some act of God came and

964
00:56:41,360 --> 00:56:43,800
caused some damage and now we can't feed everybody, or

965
00:56:43,840 --> 00:56:46,920
we can't house everybody, and so we got to make selections.

966
00:56:47,000 --> 00:56:50,199
It wasn't like this. It was in entirely a financial phenomenon.

967
00:56:50,400 --> 00:56:52,119
You know. It is something that emerged out of the

968
00:56:52,159 --> 00:56:55,840
particular the abstract financial system that we had built around

969
00:56:55,880 --> 00:56:59,840
the economy, and in the late eighteen hundreds, really is

970
00:56:59,880 --> 00:57:02,880
there is the eighteen eighties when you really start to

971
00:57:02,920 --> 00:57:06,400
see it. You start to see a lot of farmers,

972
00:57:06,480 --> 00:57:10,519
a lot of workers as well, and consumers at this point,

973
00:57:10,599 --> 00:57:12,840
you know, such as they were mostly commodity consumers at

974
00:57:12,880 --> 00:57:19,039
the time, but starting to get really really you know,

975
00:57:19,199 --> 00:57:22,599
flabbergas didn't upset watching, you know, they would all of

976
00:57:22,639 --> 00:57:25,599
a sudden, a farmer can't pay his bills this year,

977
00:57:25,760 --> 00:57:28,199
not because his crop failed, not for any of those

978
00:57:28,320 --> 00:57:31,480
kinds of reasons, just purely because some guy cornered the

979
00:57:31,559 --> 00:57:35,559
market on this particular commodity and decided to drive the

980
00:57:35,639 --> 00:57:39,079
price down to pull just purely shenanigans that were going

981
00:57:39,159 --> 00:57:43,000
on in Chicago at the Border Trader or the Mercantile Exchange,

982
00:57:43,039 --> 00:57:45,800
which you know, didn't have the kind of legitimacy that

983
00:57:45,880 --> 00:57:47,840
they have now in the sense of like, you know,

984
00:57:47,960 --> 00:57:51,199
people kind of accept that they're whatever corruption there may

985
00:57:51,239 --> 00:57:53,400
be or whatever's going on, there are at least setting

986
00:57:53,480 --> 00:57:56,199
prices and serving that function. You know, you had I

987
00:57:56,239 --> 00:57:58,159
can't remember which one was which, but one of the

988
00:57:58,199 --> 00:58:00,199
two was just run by an Irish gang and the

989
00:58:00,239 --> 00:58:02,079
other one was run by a Jewish gang, and it

990
00:58:02,239 --> 00:58:05,840
was totally out in the open, totally explicit. They fought

991
00:58:05,920 --> 00:58:08,599
with each other over like who did what and didn't

992
00:58:08,679 --> 00:58:10,760
let anybody else. Was a totally closed system, and so

993
00:58:10,840 --> 00:58:13,800
it didn't have that kind of that kind of just

994
00:58:14,159 --> 00:58:16,639
acceptance and legitimacy that it does now. So you have

995
00:58:16,760 --> 00:58:21,719
these these weird new financial institutions that are in the

996
00:58:21,800 --> 00:58:24,960
big city that now are causing farmers out in the

997
00:58:25,039 --> 00:58:27,840
West to lose their land and things. And so you know,

998
00:58:27,920 --> 00:58:30,639
when things like that start to happen, I don't think

999
00:58:30,679 --> 00:58:31,960
you're gonna you know, you don't get a lot of

1000
00:58:32,039 --> 00:58:35,960
farmers rising up because you know, they can't pay their

1001
00:58:36,000 --> 00:58:39,119
bills because their crop failed. That's something that farmers. It's

1002
00:58:39,199 --> 00:58:41,920
part of part of the life, you know. But when

1003
00:58:41,960 --> 00:58:43,920
things like this start to happen, people do start to

1004
00:58:43,960 --> 00:58:48,440
get to get radicalized. And then when you think about

1005
00:58:48,440 --> 00:58:52,159
what was happening at that time, partly because of this

1006
00:58:52,360 --> 00:58:55,119
kind of thing. You know, it's very similar in just

1007
00:58:55,280 --> 00:58:59,280
structural ways to what happened in the Roman Empire after

1008
00:58:59,400 --> 00:59:03,440
they destroyed Carthage and conquered the Mediterranean, where you know,

1009
00:59:04,679 --> 00:59:08,239
you had a land of citizen soldier, you know, people

1010
00:59:08,559 --> 00:59:10,960
who they fought in the legions and they paid the

1011
00:59:11,039 --> 00:59:13,480
taxes and they support and then all of a sudden

1012
00:59:13,719 --> 00:59:16,920
you have this massive influx of slaves coming from all

1013
00:59:16,960 --> 00:59:19,519
over the Mediterranean, just huge influx of slaves. And of

1014
00:59:19,599 --> 00:59:22,239
course what happened was the people who already had the

1015
00:59:22,320 --> 00:59:25,719
economies of scale, who could afford to buy as many

1016
00:59:25,800 --> 00:59:29,119
slaves as possible, had more efficient operations, They gobbled up

1017
00:59:29,159 --> 00:59:34,280
everything else. They began driving politics toward geopolitics, at least

1018
00:59:34,360 --> 00:59:38,000
in ways that benefited their their business. And all of

1019
00:59:38,039 --> 00:59:40,920
the people whose land was consolidated into the as lot

1020
00:59:40,960 --> 00:59:43,039
of Fundia, they all flooded into the cities and they

1021
00:59:43,079 --> 00:59:47,079
became your urban proletariat, you know. Quote unquote. But like

1022
00:59:47,800 --> 00:59:51,119
the urban mob the mass, and we didn't have a

1023
00:59:51,159 --> 00:59:54,360
big influx of slaves. We had industrial machinery that came

1024
00:59:54,400 --> 00:59:57,440
along and drove commodity prices down to the point where

1025
00:59:58,159 --> 01:00:01,800
unless you had just a massive, efficient industrial operation, the

1026
01:00:01,920 --> 01:00:04,760
margins were so low you just couldn't survive anymore. And

1027
01:00:04,840 --> 01:00:08,199
if or if you could survive, the slightest thing went

1028
01:00:08,280 --> 01:00:10,800
wrong and you were finished and you ended up having

1029
01:00:10,880 --> 01:00:13,639
to you know, you just had you had to sell

1030
01:00:13,679 --> 01:00:15,400
out or you got foreclosed on, as so many people

1031
01:00:15,440 --> 01:00:17,880
did during the Great Depression. And if you think about

1032
01:00:18,039 --> 01:00:20,519
like what Stalin was doing in the nineteen thirties in

1033
01:00:20,719 --> 01:00:25,119
Ukraine and other places, using incredibly brutal direct methods to

1034
01:00:25,280 --> 01:00:29,960
consolidate these inefficient peasant farms that were still using oxen

1035
01:00:30,039 --> 01:00:34,440
and wooden plows a lot of the time, consolidating them

1036
01:00:34,480 --> 01:00:38,159
into massive industrial agricultural operations, you know, in line with

1037
01:00:38,320 --> 01:00:41,119
sort of modern practice and killing millions of people who

1038
01:00:41,119 --> 01:00:43,880
do are doing it very directly and brutally. But in

1039
01:00:43,920 --> 01:00:45,800
the United States a version of that was going on.

1040
01:00:45,920 --> 01:00:48,079
At the same time. Millions of farmers were getting thrown

1041
01:00:48,119 --> 01:00:50,400
off their land, pushed into the cities to go work

1042
01:00:50,480 --> 01:00:53,599
in you know, in the factories, so that their land

1043
01:00:53,639 --> 01:00:57,519
could be consolidated into efficient, massive agricultural operations, you know.

1044
01:00:57,599 --> 01:00:59,679
And we were we were doing it more gently and

1045
01:00:59,719 --> 01:01:03,800
more sort of voluntarily at least on the surface. But

1046
01:01:03,880 --> 01:01:05,440
at the same time, if you didn't want to leave

1047
01:01:05,480 --> 01:01:08,840
your farm, a guy with a gun called the sheriff

1048
01:01:09,000 --> 01:01:10,719
was going to show up and make you leave, you know.

1049
01:01:10,880 --> 01:01:13,559
And that's the bottom line. And so you know, these

1050
01:01:13,599 --> 01:01:16,039
are as Thomas is fond of pointing out and really

1051
01:01:16,159 --> 01:01:18,960
really good at kind of describing. These are very broad

1052
01:01:19,159 --> 01:01:22,079
historical forces. You know that that a lot in a

1053
01:01:22,119 --> 01:01:24,920
lot of ways, the formation of the of the class system,

1054
01:01:25,000 --> 01:01:27,840
the emergence of these conflicts. It wasn't even decades in

1055
01:01:27,880 --> 01:01:29,559
the me It was a lot of ways. It was centuries.

1056
01:01:29,599 --> 01:01:32,599
And to make you know, and you have to carry

1057
01:01:32,639 --> 01:01:34,280
this for one second, I'm going to run to the restroom.

1058
01:01:34,960 --> 01:01:37,280
Speaker 2: Sure, sure, let me do.

1059
01:01:38,639 --> 01:01:42,039
Speaker 1: Let me handle the uh the super chats while I'm here,

1060
01:01:42,639 --> 01:01:46,239
Sally the amaltet Kite said, thanks, Pete. The discussions on

1061
01:01:46,360 --> 01:01:48,320
religion are great and are in no way offensive to

1062
01:01:48,400 --> 01:01:52,719
this Baptist cool. Yeah, it's one thing I didn't want to, uh,

1063
01:01:53,119 --> 01:01:57,320
I do was offend. Adrian had left a big super

1064
01:01:57,440 --> 01:02:02,840
chat for my dental work. I appreciate that. Nick says

1065
01:02:03,159 --> 01:02:07,840
it all changed when coal miners became JavaScript programmers. That's

1066
01:02:08,280 --> 01:02:12,360
a great one. Thank you so much. White on White

1067
01:02:12,400 --> 01:02:14,400
as a super chat over an interpiece is great to have.

1068
01:02:14,559 --> 01:02:18,239
Darryl on Yes it is. Thank you. Plum Greiper threw

1069
01:02:18,360 --> 01:02:20,679
up a big super chat over an Interpece said love

1070
01:02:20,760 --> 01:02:22,320
from Jersey, thanks for everything.

1071
01:02:22,920 --> 01:02:24,559
Speaker 2: Thank you man. I appreciate that.

1072
01:02:24,800 --> 01:02:29,199
Speaker 1: And mister clockwork over on Rumble said seven seven seven,

1073
01:02:29,400 --> 01:02:32,119
Daryl and Pete, gentlemen, this is legitimately.

1074
01:02:31,679 --> 01:02:33,679
Speaker 2: My favorite show. Much respect to each of you and

1075
01:02:33,800 --> 01:02:36,239
thank you all. So there you go.

1076
01:02:38,039 --> 01:02:41,880
Speaker 1: Let me uh, let me ask about what organized labor. Okay,

1077
01:02:42,000 --> 01:02:44,320
so unions. I mean I come from a union family.

1078
01:02:44,400 --> 01:02:48,800
My dad was a was an organizer before he his

1079
01:02:48,960 --> 01:02:53,880
stepdad was a teamster organizer. Oh the stories I'll tell

1080
01:02:53,920 --> 01:02:56,239
you privately that I heard from that guy. I mean,

1081
01:02:56,320 --> 01:02:59,679
these guys were straight up murders in some cases. I

1082
01:02:59,719 --> 01:03:04,480
mean they drop bodies all across everywhere they went up

1083
01:03:04,519 --> 01:03:07,639
to a certain point, especially in the interwar period, it

1084
01:03:07,800 --> 01:03:13,800
was it was terrible. But yeah, organized labor once you

1085
01:03:13,880 --> 01:03:15,840
start getting these unions that are.

1086
01:03:18,280 --> 01:03:18,880
Speaker 2: Legitimate.

1087
01:03:19,039 --> 01:03:23,480
Speaker 1: Let's say they're getting to the point where they're legitimate organizations.

1088
01:03:24,480 --> 01:03:25,840
How does that change the dynamic.

1089
01:03:26,960 --> 01:03:29,159
Speaker 4: Well, one of the things that happened very early on,

1090
01:03:30,760 --> 01:03:33,199
you know, like people people, one of the things people

1091
01:03:33,320 --> 01:03:36,679
know about organized labor is its association with the mob.

1092
01:03:37,280 --> 01:03:40,920
And that's something that emerged very very soon after. You know,

1093
01:03:41,079 --> 01:03:44,639
these things hit that point of like legitimacy, and and

1094
01:03:44,760 --> 01:03:48,119
it really happened organically and as a matter of necessity

1095
01:03:48,199 --> 01:03:52,440
at first, where you know, the you gotta remember these

1096
01:03:52,480 --> 01:03:54,440
are times where okay, there's a couple of things like

1097
01:03:54,480 --> 01:03:56,880
about the movement back then, you have to remember, like,

1098
01:03:56,960 --> 01:04:01,639
these are not professional labor activists for the most part.

1099
01:04:01,760 --> 01:04:03,639
These are dudes who turn a ranch for ten or

1100
01:04:03,679 --> 01:04:05,760
twelve hours a day and then when they're done, they

1101
01:04:05,840 --> 01:04:07,840
go to a meeting with their people, and then they

1102
01:04:07,920 --> 01:04:09,719
go home to their family. These are workers. These are

1103
01:04:09,719 --> 01:04:12,239
people who bust their ass at work, and the most

1104
01:04:12,320 --> 01:04:16,199
capable and able and organized and motivated among them, you know,

1105
01:04:16,360 --> 01:04:18,239
kind of take the lead. But these are workers, you know,

1106
01:04:18,320 --> 01:04:23,360
these are these these are men who are not just intellectuals.

1107
01:04:23,360 --> 01:04:28,639
They're not leftist intellectuals or something and and so you know,

1108
01:04:30,679 --> 01:04:34,840
as you start to you know, right, and so these

1109
01:04:34,920 --> 01:04:37,159
people who are who are again genuine workers, they go

1110
01:04:37,239 --> 01:04:39,199
out on the picket line in the late eighteen hundreds,

1111
01:04:39,239 --> 01:04:43,679
and you have, you know, the Homestead incident, the Haymarket.

1112
01:04:43,719 --> 01:04:45,960
It's just incident after incident after incident, the Battle of

1113
01:04:46,000 --> 01:04:49,360
Blair Mountain, Ludlow, Colorado, all these incidents you read about

1114
01:04:49,400 --> 01:04:52,679
in American history now where Pinkerton's or some other private

1115
01:04:52,719 --> 01:04:58,360
security force is hired by the business, by the owners

1116
01:04:58,519 --> 01:05:00,800
to break up a strike, and not only to break

1117
01:05:00,880 --> 01:05:03,280
up a strike, but then to spy on the people,

1118
01:05:03,360 --> 01:05:05,480
to make sure that they're not organizing, and if they

1119
01:05:05,519 --> 01:05:09,639
are organizing, to threaten them, assault them, sometimes murder them,

1120
01:05:09,920 --> 01:05:15,719
certainly blacklist them. And you know these were because you know,

1121
01:05:15,840 --> 01:05:18,280
people didn't It was like an open question back then,

1122
01:05:18,320 --> 01:05:20,840
do you have the right to strike? You know, today

1123
01:05:20,880 --> 01:05:22,320
it's to kind of just taken for granted.

1124
01:05:22,360 --> 01:05:22,760
Speaker 2: Of course you do.

1125
01:05:22,800 --> 01:05:24,000
Speaker 4: You don't have to go to work if you don't

1126
01:05:24,000 --> 01:05:26,800
want to. You know, even people who are real kind

1127
01:05:26,840 --> 01:05:29,400
of Reaganite capitalists ipe think you should be able to strike.

1128
01:05:29,480 --> 01:05:31,480
They just think that you should be fired for it

1129
01:05:31,639 --> 01:05:33,280
or something, you know, But back then, it was like,

1130
01:05:33,320 --> 01:05:35,760
wait a second, you don't have the right to just

1131
01:05:36,400 --> 01:05:39,000
you know, try to bankrupt this guy who owns this place,

1132
01:05:39,159 --> 01:05:42,039
or to harm the national economy or local economy with

1133
01:05:42,159 --> 01:05:43,800
these antics. You don't have the right to do that.

1134
01:05:44,519 --> 01:05:47,679
And so they would respond violently sometimes when they did,

1135
01:05:47,840 --> 01:05:51,239
and we didn't have you know, built out local state

1136
01:05:51,320 --> 01:05:53,559
and federal police the way we do now. In fact,

1137
01:05:53,559 --> 01:05:56,119
a lot of those the local police were built out

1138
01:05:56,800 --> 01:05:59,880
to kind of take over from the private security force.

1139
01:06:00,119 --> 01:06:02,280
Is that the you know, that the that the businesses

1140
01:06:02,320 --> 01:06:05,639
were employing to do all this labor security work, and

1141
01:06:06,400 --> 01:06:08,239
you know, and that's something that gets written up in

1142
01:06:09,119 --> 01:06:13,079
like leftist historiography is just you know, more proof of

1143
01:06:13,199 --> 01:06:16,159
the capitalist capture of the state. Now they're using you

1144
01:06:16,239 --> 01:06:18,920
know it to it's sort of but there was also

1145
01:06:19,320 --> 01:06:22,840
a rational, i won't say altruistic, but a rational element

1146
01:06:22,920 --> 01:06:26,880
to it, where they're like, we can't just have like pinkertons,

1147
01:06:26,880 --> 01:06:29,599
you know, people like this, like they're hiring people directly

1148
01:06:29,639 --> 01:06:31,400
out of prison who are in there for murder and

1149
01:06:31,440 --> 01:06:33,840
then like putting them you know, setting them on these

1150
01:06:33,920 --> 01:06:36,840
labor workers. We can't like have that be the primary

1151
01:06:36,880 --> 01:06:38,840
way that this is governing, the state has to step

1152
01:06:38,880 --> 01:06:40,920
in and deal with this in some way. And so

1153
01:06:41,000 --> 01:06:46,440
there was that element of it, but because of the

1154
01:06:46,639 --> 01:06:49,719
of the level of violence and brutality that the that

1155
01:06:49,800 --> 01:06:54,000
the owners would bring to bear against striking workers. You know, again,

1156
01:06:54,119 --> 01:06:56,599
these are tough guys a lot of times, they turn

1157
01:06:56,639 --> 01:06:58,880
wrenches all day, but they're not fighters, you know, and

1158
01:06:59,000 --> 01:07:01,440
they needed fighters, any people on their side of the

1159
01:07:01,480 --> 01:07:03,599
picket line who could defend them from these people who

1160
01:07:03,639 --> 01:07:05,440
are going to show up with billy clubs and pile

1161
01:07:05,519 --> 01:07:07,280
out of a street car, you know, and come after them.

1162
01:07:07,679 --> 01:07:09,719
And who are they gonna who are they gonna find?

1163
01:07:09,800 --> 01:07:12,440
You know, these are workers close to the street very often,

1164
01:07:12,920 --> 01:07:16,239
uh you know, factories and industries would be would be

1165
01:07:16,480 --> 01:07:19,519
divided up by ethnic groups which you know, still lived

1166
01:07:19,559 --> 01:07:23,119
in coherent, cohesive neighborhood communities back then. And so the

1167
01:07:23,280 --> 01:07:26,360
organized crime elements you know, who were that were around,

1168
01:07:26,679 --> 01:07:28,960
they were in touch with these people already, you know.

1169
01:07:29,079 --> 01:07:32,000
And and as it is even today, like you know,

1170
01:07:32,480 --> 01:07:35,800
everybody kind of watches The Godfather, the Sopranos or something,

1171
01:07:35,880 --> 01:07:38,480
they have this image of organized crime, like it's just

1172
01:07:38,599 --> 01:07:42,719
this complete. They live in this total other world doing

1173
01:07:42,840 --> 01:07:45,719
a thing that is almost like this. It's there. There's

1174
01:07:45,760 --> 01:07:47,920
some people who were kind of like that, the bosses

1175
01:07:47,960 --> 01:07:50,239
and whatever. Most people have one foot in, one foot out.

1176
01:07:50,760 --> 01:07:54,039
You know, a lot of these guys who were affiliated

1177
01:07:54,079 --> 01:07:58,920
because their brother was you know, affiliated, works at the factory,

1178
01:07:58,960 --> 01:08:00,960
and you know, these guys are part of the community

1179
01:08:01,000 --> 01:08:02,679
and everybody knows them. And so they called them in

1180
01:08:02,840 --> 01:08:07,079
and said, uh, you know, we'll pay you or give you,

1181
01:08:07,400 --> 01:08:09,800
you know, make you members of the union, et cetera,

1182
01:08:11,920 --> 01:08:14,800
to protect us from you know, from from the private

1183
01:08:14,800 --> 01:08:17,640
security forces basically, and then you know, you they ran

1184
01:08:17,720 --> 01:08:22,680
into very quickly. They ran into the problem that everybody

1185
01:08:22,680 --> 01:08:24,880
who does anything like that does. You know that the

1186
01:08:25,479 --> 01:08:29,279
that the drug lord who owns the hacienda up on

1187
01:08:29,640 --> 01:08:32,039
up on the Hill and Columbia decides to hire a

1188
01:08:32,119 --> 01:08:35,119
bunch of former military guys to be his security force.

1189
01:08:35,159 --> 01:08:37,359
And one day they look around at each other and realize,

1190
01:08:37,399 --> 01:08:39,600
we don't really need that guy to run this place.

1191
01:08:40,359 --> 01:08:42,119
And they have all the guns, and so, you know,

1192
01:08:42,239 --> 01:08:44,600
they become the new boss. And that happened with the

1193
01:08:44,720 --> 01:08:47,079
labor movement just across the board. These guys that they

1194
01:08:47,119 --> 01:08:50,239
were bringing in to provide security for them kind of

1195
01:08:50,279 --> 01:08:53,079
looked around and they just realized that, you know, we

1196
01:08:53,159 --> 01:08:55,720
can just take this thing over. And that began to happen,

1197
01:08:55,800 --> 01:08:59,760
you got, I mean, this was a I mean labor uh,

1198
01:09:00,279 --> 01:09:07,600
labor racketeering was really second only to prohibition alcohol distribution

1199
01:09:07,880 --> 01:09:12,199
and much longer lived a primary primary like a source

1200
01:09:12,239 --> 01:09:14,720
of income and power for the mob, you know, and

1201
01:09:14,840 --> 01:09:17,560
not just power on the streets, but political power eventually

1202
01:09:17,600 --> 01:09:18,039
as well.

1203
01:09:18,640 --> 01:09:21,319
Speaker 2: And you know all all it.

1204
01:09:21,359 --> 01:09:24,399
Speaker 4: Really means when people say labor racketeering, it's usually uh,

1205
01:09:24,680 --> 01:09:27,279
you know, it's a simple proposition. It's you know, the

1206
01:09:27,439 --> 01:09:30,479
union shows up, it's run by the gangsters, and they

1207
01:09:30,560 --> 01:09:32,520
go to the owners and say, you know, we could

1208
01:09:32,680 --> 01:09:37,119
strike and demand X, Y and z, or you could

1209
01:09:37,600 --> 01:09:40,359
or we can agree right now to a much lower

1210
01:09:40,439 --> 01:09:42,319
set of demands and then you cut us, you know,

1211
01:09:42,520 --> 01:09:45,800
a check personally for you know, for for our service

1212
01:09:45,920 --> 01:09:48,520
or whatever. And and that's essentially what it was. I

1213
01:09:48,600 --> 01:09:51,600
mean that and just taking portions of the uh of

1214
01:09:51,680 --> 01:09:54,000
the union dues from the workers and so forth. And

1215
01:09:56,199 --> 01:09:57,760
it was very you know, it was very lucrative. But

1216
01:09:57,800 --> 01:09:59,479
what it did is it kicked the door open and

1217
01:09:59,600 --> 01:10:03,279
allowed that element, you know, to to sort of take

1218
01:10:03,319 --> 01:10:04,920
the movement over to a degree. I mean, like and

1219
01:10:05,000 --> 01:10:07,680
that's not the only reason that teamsters were dropping bodies.

1220
01:10:07,760 --> 01:10:10,359
But you know, you see when you see it across

1221
01:10:10,479 --> 01:10:13,039
the labor movement. You know, the head of the United

1222
01:10:13,119 --> 01:10:16,319
mind Workers was assassinated back in like sixty two or

1223
01:10:16,319 --> 01:10:18,800
sixty one or something like that. And it wasn't some

1224
01:10:19,680 --> 01:10:22,159
random killing. I mean, as dude was assassinated, you know.

1225
01:10:22,960 --> 01:10:29,359
And so yeah, I mean when you the violence, they

1226
01:10:29,399 --> 01:10:33,000
started to come later. You know, the nineteenth century violence

1227
01:10:33,359 --> 01:10:35,199
was what I said, you know, it was very dependent

1228
01:10:35,359 --> 01:10:39,039
on who the people were and what Which incident you're

1229
01:10:39,039 --> 01:10:41,199
talking about is you get into the to the twentieth century,

1230
01:10:41,359 --> 01:10:44,079
early twentieth century, you know, the Lepti book, Culter Years

1231
01:10:44,119 --> 01:10:47,880
and so forth, the violence is caused by, you know,

1232
01:10:47,960 --> 01:10:51,560
the infiltration of organized crime basically, and you get some

1233
01:10:51,680 --> 01:10:54,840
really entertaining episodes sometimes, you know, like when the UH

1234
01:10:56,359 --> 01:11:00,399
in the nineteen forties when they were having you basically

1235
01:11:00,520 --> 01:11:03,479
had like the Mob and the La Mob and the

1236
01:11:03,880 --> 01:11:07,520
Communist Party of the United States, basically a war in

1237
01:11:07,600 --> 01:11:11,319
the streets for control over the Hollywood unions. It's just

1238
01:11:11,760 --> 01:11:13,800
it's like it's a great story to tell I'm going

1239
01:11:13,880 --> 01:11:15,000
to do it one of these. It was the next

1240
01:11:15,079 --> 01:11:16,800
one I was going to do in my Labor series

1241
01:11:16,840 --> 01:11:18,920
before I got pulled onto the World War Two thing

1242
01:11:18,960 --> 01:11:20,760
a little early, because it's such a great story. It's

1243
01:11:20,760 --> 01:11:21,479
all these people.

1244
01:11:21,279 --> 01:11:21,640
Speaker 2: You've heard of.

1245
01:11:21,840 --> 01:11:25,079
Speaker 4: Ronald Reagan's a major character, a bunch of actors, and

1246
01:11:25,159 --> 01:11:29,039
you literally just have like gangsters and communists fighting for control.

1247
01:11:29,119 --> 01:11:30,720
And that was the case in a lot of places

1248
01:11:31,199 --> 01:11:33,279
because the communists, you know, say what you want about

1249
01:11:33,279 --> 01:11:35,880
the communists, they were just a one group of people

1250
01:11:35,960 --> 01:11:38,479
you couldn't threaten and you couldn't bribe. They were in

1251
01:11:38,600 --> 01:11:40,880
it to win, you know. And so the mob could

1252
01:11:40,880 --> 01:11:43,319
buy off politicians, they could buy off other labor. All

1253
01:11:43,359 --> 01:11:45,359
these other couldn't buy off the communists, you know, and

1254
01:11:45,399 --> 01:11:47,279
you couldn't threaten them. They were willing to fight you.

1255
01:11:48,039 --> 01:11:51,600
And that's something else I tell people too. It's like, sure,

1256
01:11:51,680 --> 01:11:56,239
you had like your lame sort of Hollywood fellow traveler

1257
01:11:56,399 --> 01:11:58,760
communist types back then, you know, and they were probably

1258
01:11:58,800 --> 01:12:01,439
similar to the blue haired people screeching we have today.

1259
01:12:02,239 --> 01:12:04,840
But the Communist Party like the bulk of the people,

1260
01:12:04,960 --> 01:12:07,840
like on the street, and is especially true in Europe,

1261
01:12:07,840 --> 01:12:10,600
but even you know, these were serious people, man, you know,

1262
01:12:10,800 --> 01:12:13,159
And and they may not have been turning wrenches ten

1263
01:12:13,239 --> 01:12:15,520
twelve hours a day, all of them, some of them were,

1264
01:12:15,640 --> 01:12:18,079
and the ones who weren't, they were still like committed

1265
01:12:18,159 --> 01:12:21,800
idiologues who were willing to suffer if they had to

1266
01:12:22,000 --> 01:12:24,079
to like put this thing over. They were very serious people.

1267
01:12:24,640 --> 01:12:27,760
And you know, it makes me as much as I'm

1268
01:12:28,039 --> 01:12:30,800
you know, anti communist in every way, like it makes

1269
01:12:30,840 --> 01:12:33,079
me kind of nostalgic to think about that, you know,

1270
01:12:33,880 --> 01:12:37,920
I mean somebody, I think, I can't remember when what context,

1271
01:12:38,039 --> 01:12:42,840
but we were talking about Europe earlier, and you know

1272
01:12:42,960 --> 01:12:46,600
the uh oh like today in Europe, Oh, the state

1273
01:12:46,680 --> 01:12:51,439
of the left in Europe today. You know, I think

1274
01:12:51,479 --> 01:12:53,760
a big part of the problem with it is that

1275
01:12:53,920 --> 01:12:58,039
even Stalin, even the Soviets, had to accept the fact

1276
01:12:58,239 --> 01:13:01,760
very quickly that in the Chinese have accepted it now

1277
01:13:01,920 --> 01:13:05,000
and accepted it you know some time ago that socialism,

1278
01:13:05,119 --> 01:13:06,840
to the extent it can work, it all, can only

1279
01:13:06,960 --> 01:13:10,199
work in a national context, That's it. And you can

1280
01:13:10,680 --> 01:13:14,439
and of course socialism in a national context is satan

1281
01:13:14,560 --> 01:13:16,840
and the devil and the most evil thing ever happening

1282
01:13:16,920 --> 01:13:18,880
in the history of the world. And so that's just

1283
01:13:19,000 --> 01:13:22,000
completely verbotn and off limits. You know, in Europe, they

1284
01:13:22,159 --> 01:13:24,720
just it directs the left completely away from anything like

1285
01:13:24,760 --> 01:13:27,079
that because they don't have any conceptual framework to like

1286
01:13:27,199 --> 01:13:32,359
bring these things back together. And and you know, fine,

1287
01:13:32,600 --> 01:13:35,319
you know, it's understandable for a myriad of historical reasons

1288
01:13:35,399 --> 01:13:37,279
that they would think that way. You know, I'm not

1289
01:13:37,520 --> 01:13:41,479
least the sort of campaign of psychological warfare that's been

1290
01:13:41,520 --> 01:13:44,920
waged against them for eighty years, but but it is

1291
01:13:45,000 --> 01:13:48,359
the impediment to the left ever accomplishing anything again. You know,

1292
01:13:48,439 --> 01:13:51,079
I mean even people who look at it today and

1293
01:13:51,560 --> 01:13:53,880
want to say, well, okay, yeah, this is this. You know,

1294
01:13:53,960 --> 01:13:56,960
it's cultural Marxism. It's this gram Sheian sort of you

1295
01:13:57,039 --> 01:13:59,680
know cult. It's like, okay, but even Graham she was

1296
01:13:59,760 --> 01:14:02,880
right about, like we need to do this in order

1297
01:14:03,039 --> 01:14:06,760
to be able to bring about the socialist revelute. Then

1298
01:14:07,079 --> 01:14:09,279
there's no goal of that today. You got the blue

1299
01:14:09,319 --> 01:14:13,439
haired you know, quote unquote democratic socialists like marching in

1300
01:14:13,560 --> 01:14:16,119
Pride parades that are sponsored by Black Rock. You know,

1301
01:14:16,199 --> 01:14:19,279
that's just it's totally non existent today. It's purely, as

1302
01:14:19,439 --> 01:14:23,840
as he said, just a movement to to destigmatize and

1303
01:14:23,960 --> 01:14:27,239
make available as many hedonic distractions as possible, and to

1304
01:14:27,439 --> 01:14:30,479
just liberate the individual, not so much from the state,

1305
01:14:30,920 --> 01:14:33,880
which they've never believed in, but to liberate them from

1306
01:14:34,520 --> 01:14:37,439
the constraints of custom and the constraints of family and

1307
01:14:37,520 --> 01:14:41,840
community and other just sort of local, you know, semi

1308
01:14:41,960 --> 01:14:44,600
voluntary constraints that you're born into, all of those organic

1309
01:14:44,720 --> 01:14:47,199
things that people are born into. Is it, you know,

1310
01:14:48,640 --> 01:14:50,359
is really the that's the thing that they try to

1311
01:14:50,399 --> 01:14:52,760
wipe out, because that's the thing they see primarily as

1312
01:14:53,600 --> 01:14:56,079
as the oppressor and the and the and the inhibitor

1313
01:14:56,159 --> 01:14:56,760
of liberation.

1314
01:14:56,960 --> 01:14:57,079
Speaker 2: You know.

1315
01:14:57,239 --> 01:15:00,319
Speaker 4: It's not how often does somebody show up and police

1316
01:15:00,359 --> 01:15:02,520
uniform and tell you you can't do that. It's pretty

1317
01:15:02,800 --> 01:15:04,159
you know, you got to do it every year when

1318
01:15:04,159 --> 01:15:07,079
you pay your taxes, and happens occasionally if you drive

1319
01:15:07,159 --> 01:15:09,560
too fast. But most people they don't interact with the

1320
01:15:09,640 --> 01:15:11,920
state in that way and they don't ever feel particularly

1321
01:15:12,039 --> 01:15:16,439
oppressed by it. But people feel oppressed by their families,

1322
01:15:16,479 --> 01:15:19,520
They feel oppressed by their communities, their churches sometimes because

1323
01:15:19,520 --> 01:15:20,640
those are the ones who are going to hold you

1324
01:15:20,720 --> 01:15:23,960
accountable for bad behavior, you know, and and for the

1325
01:15:24,079 --> 01:15:26,640
kind of bad behavior that the average person is is

1326
01:15:26,960 --> 01:15:28,640
is liable to get up to, you know, because most

1327
01:15:28,680 --> 01:15:31,520
people are criminals and so and so. Yeah, there is

1328
01:15:31,600 --> 01:15:34,279
no left today, and if there's ever going to be,

1329
01:15:34,800 --> 01:15:37,199
it's going to have to be in a national context,

1330
01:15:37,239 --> 01:15:40,880
a nationalist context, and that's a big obstacle to overcome,

1331
01:15:41,039 --> 01:15:42,880
especially in Europe, you know, And.

1332
01:15:44,720 --> 01:15:46,960
Speaker 1: I mean I think that's yeah, I think that's what

1333
01:15:47,760 --> 01:15:49,520
I think that's one of the ways that the right

1334
01:15:49,680 --> 01:15:53,119
can get back. If you're going to talk about how

1335
01:15:53,760 --> 01:15:59,640
nationalism making things as small as possible work, then you

1336
01:16:00,159 --> 01:16:04,319
have to take on as much as you can. I mean,

1337
01:16:04,399 --> 01:16:09,079
I know it's a different dynamic, but taking on labor,

1338
01:16:09,319 --> 01:16:13,560
historic labor, and making it one of your platforms that

1339
01:16:13,680 --> 01:16:15,760
you know, we're the ones you get because you cannot

1340
01:16:16,000 --> 01:16:20,319
have a labor movement in globalism. There's just it's impossible.

1341
01:16:20,760 --> 01:16:23,319
Speaker 4: But if you want to have it's like having open

1342
01:16:23,399 --> 01:16:26,159
immigration in a welfare state. It's like the same contradiction.

1343
01:16:26,399 --> 01:16:30,319
You know, the minute your socialism starts working really really

1344
01:16:30,399 --> 01:16:33,600
really well, but you're in a globalist context, people are

1345
01:16:33,640 --> 01:16:36,199
going to flood in. Until that's you know, that curve

1346
01:16:36,319 --> 01:16:39,520
heads back down toward the mean, you know, and yeah,

1347
01:16:39,560 --> 01:16:40,359
that's exactly right.

1348
01:16:41,640 --> 01:16:45,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, So if you know, everybody who's talking about, oh,

1349
01:16:46,000 --> 01:16:48,920
we need to bring manufacturing back home, we need this,

1350
01:16:49,159 --> 01:16:52,560
we need that. A big part of that, if you

1351
01:16:53,000 --> 01:16:57,359
want to what happens is once you start winning that,

1352
01:16:58,119 --> 01:17:00,159
once you start winning that part of the world are

1353
01:17:00,760 --> 01:17:03,520
the left is going to figure that out and is

1354
01:17:03,640 --> 01:17:06,560
going to do the shift like they always do. And

1355
01:17:06,840 --> 01:17:10,000
if you don't already have a grasp on labor, at

1356
01:17:10,119 --> 01:17:14,199
least that the work you know whoever the and know

1357
01:17:14,800 --> 01:17:17,199
whatever we call it working man nowadays, if we get

1358
01:17:17,279 --> 01:17:19,640
back like a manufacturing economy, which.

1359
01:17:19,560 --> 01:17:21,239
Speaker 2: I don't know if that's I don't even know if

1360
01:17:21,279 --> 01:17:24,520
that's possible, then the right has to be on top

1361
01:17:24,560 --> 01:17:24,720
of that.

1362
01:17:24,840 --> 01:17:27,359
Speaker 1: The right can't let the left come back in and

1363
01:17:27,560 --> 01:17:30,119
own that because that's one of their ways into power.

1364
01:17:31,640 --> 01:17:33,800
Speaker 4: Yeah, and the way or at least one of the

1365
01:17:33,920 --> 01:17:36,880
important ways that you know that the right would have

1366
01:17:37,039 --> 01:17:39,560
to do it because you do still have to speak

1367
01:17:39,600 --> 01:17:41,760
to people and the language they have available to them,

1368
01:17:41,880 --> 01:17:44,840
you know, and unfortunately the rights language for these topics

1369
01:17:44,960 --> 01:17:49,319
is really impoverished. But you know, one of the ways

1370
01:17:49,359 --> 01:17:51,920
you do it. As much as you know, you and

1371
01:17:52,039 --> 01:17:55,680
I and you know, everybody watching this are probably averse

1372
01:17:55,760 --> 01:17:58,159
to taking this as an example for anything. You know,

1373
01:17:58,199 --> 01:18:00,479
a lot of the early right wing zion Is writers

1374
01:18:00,760 --> 01:18:03,039
had a lot of interesting things to say about this.

1375
01:18:03,199 --> 01:18:06,000
You know, they were looking at their people, the Jewish

1376
01:18:06,000 --> 01:18:10,960
people in exile in the diaspora, and very very critical

1377
01:18:11,079 --> 01:18:14,159
of like this, especially Eastern European Jewry, like just the

1378
01:18:14,239 --> 01:18:17,000
type of people that they had become over twenty twenty

1379
01:18:17,039 --> 01:18:22,279
five hundred years of living urban existences and you know,

1380
01:18:22,439 --> 01:18:25,239
without any tie to lord or peasant, not having any

1381
01:18:25,399 --> 01:18:29,520
kind of that stratification, and living in other people's land

1382
01:18:29,800 --> 01:18:32,600
sort of you know, trying to get what gleanings they

1383
01:18:32,600 --> 01:18:35,239
could to keep themselves going. That that had sort of

1384
01:18:35,319 --> 01:18:40,319
twisted the Jewish soul in a while and in a way,

1385
01:18:40,479 --> 01:18:43,279
and that you know, these you had these people who

1386
01:18:43,560 --> 01:18:46,239
you know, maybe they handled money every day for work

1387
01:18:46,319 --> 01:18:49,039
back when they were in Poland. If they came to Palestine,

1388
01:18:49,920 --> 01:18:52,279
they were going to a kibbutz or they were going

1389
01:18:52,319 --> 01:18:54,119
to a village and they were getting their hands dirty.

1390
01:18:54,119 --> 01:18:56,000
And they had no choice. It was if you're going

1391
01:18:56,079 --> 01:18:57,880
to come here, then you're going to get your hands dirty.

1392
01:18:57,880 --> 01:19:00,319
You're going to learn to work and the reason is

1393
01:19:00,399 --> 01:19:04,279
because you know, there are certain there's a there's a

1394
01:19:04,399 --> 01:19:07,560
nobility of spirit that comes from work, you know, that

1395
01:19:07,800 --> 01:19:11,239
that that that evaporates over a very short period of

1396
01:19:11,279 --> 01:19:15,479
time when your life is built on speculation and trade alone.

1397
01:19:17,079 --> 01:19:20,600
That you know, it's not only important for the social fabric,

1398
01:19:20,680 --> 01:19:23,159
but also important for the individual soul, you know. And

1399
01:19:23,279 --> 01:19:26,359
those are the kinds of things that right wingers can

1400
01:19:26,439 --> 01:19:30,520
say to, you know, to conservatives, that conservatives can say

1401
01:19:30,560 --> 01:19:33,399
to Republicans that can sort of that can allow them

1402
01:19:33,479 --> 01:19:36,560
to accept you give them permission to to hear the

1403
01:19:36,680 --> 01:19:38,760
rest of the story when it comes to labor, you know,

1404
01:19:38,920 --> 01:19:41,640
because again we didn't even get into this, but obviously

1405
01:19:41,720 --> 01:19:43,760
the legacy of the Cold War right now is I mean,

1406
01:19:43,800 --> 01:19:48,560
that's the that's the real from an ideological standpoint, like

1407
01:19:48,640 --> 01:19:50,319
the real impediment to it, you know. I mean, you

1408
01:19:50,439 --> 01:19:54,840
had you have capitalism and then you have Dolin, you know,

1409
01:19:54,960 --> 01:19:57,800
and that's sort of still the way people people think

1410
01:19:57,840 --> 01:20:02,640
about it, and it's really hard to it was really

1411
01:20:02,720 --> 01:20:04,800
one of the major points of my Labor series in

1412
01:20:04,880 --> 01:20:06,880
general was to tell these stories in the nineteenth and

1413
01:20:06,880 --> 01:20:09,600
early twentieth century, to show who these people were, so

1414
01:20:09,760 --> 01:20:12,800
that right wingers could hear about them and not you know,

1415
01:20:12,840 --> 01:20:15,600
when they hear socialist or anarchist or something, and then

1416
01:20:15,720 --> 01:20:18,359
realize that that guy turns the wrench twelve hours a

1417
01:20:18,439 --> 01:20:21,880
day before spending three hours at a labor meeting and

1418
01:20:21,960 --> 01:20:24,239
then going home to his family to spend twenty minutes

1419
01:20:24,279 --> 01:20:25,840
with them before he goes to bed and gets up

1420
01:20:25,840 --> 01:20:28,520
and does it all again, that like, and doing that

1421
01:20:28,640 --> 01:20:31,720
under conditions where he's being spied on, being threatened, maybe

1422
01:20:31,800 --> 01:20:36,199
being assaulted, maybe murdered, you know, very often by bought

1423
01:20:36,279 --> 01:20:38,520
off local authorities, you know, I mean, just those are

1424
01:20:38,560 --> 01:20:41,199
the kind of hostile conditions that these people were responding to.

1425
01:20:41,720 --> 01:20:43,760
And so to say I'm an anarchist or I'm a

1426
01:20:43,840 --> 01:20:47,399
socialist people today rightfully, so, you know, I understand understandably,

1427
01:20:47,479 --> 01:20:50,680
so at least they think of the people that Kyle

1428
01:20:50,760 --> 01:20:54,079
Rittenhouse merked. You know, that's not who these people were

1429
01:20:54,159 --> 01:20:56,960
back then, you know, that's just it's just not who

1430
01:20:57,000 --> 01:20:59,159
they were. These people were for the most part, workers

1431
01:20:59,199 --> 01:21:01,359
who were like you know, who are who were trying

1432
01:21:01,399 --> 01:21:04,359
to improve the lives of their own families. And when

1433
01:21:04,399 --> 01:21:07,479
you you know, when you get into the twentieth century,

1434
01:21:07,520 --> 01:21:08,920
I mean, one of the things that's like it just

1435
01:21:10,319 --> 01:21:13,159
it shows you, really, like how dead all this stuff

1436
01:21:13,279 --> 01:21:15,720
really is and what a what a mediir it's come

1437
01:21:15,800 --> 01:21:21,960
to that. You know, you'll see uh, you'll see labor

1438
01:21:22,119 --> 01:21:28,319
unions in California showing up and and and uh and

1439
01:21:28,680 --> 01:21:33,760
throwing their resources behind marches and other you know, political

1440
01:21:33,960 --> 01:21:36,960
uh initiatives to make sure that the border stays open.

1441
01:21:37,680 --> 01:21:40,319
And it's just like Caesar Chavez used to march at

1442
01:21:40,359 --> 01:21:43,199
the border with his people to keep out illegal immigrants,

1443
01:21:43,279 --> 01:21:47,239
and that today that they're they're marching to bring them in.

1444
01:21:47,439 --> 01:21:49,520
And these are their replacements. These are the people that

1445
01:21:49,600 --> 01:21:51,880
they're bringing in to like, you know, not only take

1446
01:21:51,960 --> 01:21:54,119
their jobs, but move into their neighborhoods and all these things.

1447
01:21:54,159 --> 01:21:57,680
And the labor unions themselves are helping fund and organize

1448
01:21:57,720 --> 01:21:59,560
and and support all this stuff. And you say, how

1449
01:21:59,680 --> 01:22:03,479
is this possible? And you know it's possible because very

1450
01:22:03,800 --> 01:22:06,079
you know, it's kind of similar to the two major

1451
01:22:06,119 --> 01:22:09,079
political parties. You know, you think of them as political organizations,

1452
01:22:09,079 --> 01:22:11,760
they're really just fundraising organizations for the most part. And

1453
01:22:11,840 --> 01:22:14,279
big labor today, you know, once it got to a

1454
01:22:14,359 --> 01:22:18,039
certain scale, you run into the problem that all elite

1455
01:22:18,119 --> 01:22:20,920
theorists are always going to you know, to fall on,

1456
01:22:21,039 --> 01:22:24,640
which is you know who you have a thirty billion

1457
01:22:24,680 --> 01:22:28,680
dollar pension fund. Now you have offices all over the country,

1458
01:22:28,760 --> 01:22:31,479
you have thousands of employees in the union. Who's going

1459
01:22:31,560 --> 01:22:34,159
to run that the guy who turned the wrench twelve

1460
01:22:34,199 --> 01:22:36,319
hours a day, And kind of like it became't no,

1461
01:22:36,880 --> 01:22:39,119
you know, it's a Harvard MBA that you hire to

1462
01:22:39,239 --> 01:22:42,199
run that thing, and then he brings his values or

1463
01:22:42,279 --> 01:22:46,319
her values into the organism. Canalys and they bring their

1464
01:22:46,640 --> 01:22:49,720
their values into the organization and that kind of trumps

1465
01:22:49,720 --> 01:22:52,159
everything else. And the fact that there's not you know,

1466
01:22:52,279 --> 01:22:55,920
the fact that you can have workers unions in California,

1467
01:22:56,760 --> 01:22:59,199
you know, being told to show up in March for

1468
01:23:00,159 --> 01:23:03,239
open borders and they aren't just rising up and you

1469
01:23:03,319 --> 01:23:05,640
know and hanging the people that run their union. It

1470
01:23:05,720 --> 01:23:07,359
just shows you how dead the whole thing is.

1471
01:23:07,520 --> 01:23:12,439
Speaker 1: Unfortunately, you know, I wanted to bring this up because

1472
01:23:12,560 --> 01:23:19,520
there was a comment here from show Saguni. He says, Zarn, Mum, Donnie,

1473
01:23:20,399 --> 01:23:23,880
I have trouble with Star Wars names just laden.

1474
01:23:23,960 --> 01:23:28,039
Speaker 4: That's that's what I've been sued. His actual name is u.

1475
01:23:29,560 --> 01:23:33,319
Speaker 1: Is Promising thirty dollars minimum wage. I don't know if

1476
01:23:33,479 --> 01:23:36,439
if Show is trying to say that that's like supporting labor,

1477
01:23:36,560 --> 01:23:40,439
but that's not supporting labor. That's that's a campaign promise.

1478
01:23:40,680 --> 01:23:45,960
And I mean most of that, if he continues in

1479
01:23:46,960 --> 01:23:50,479
with the way he the way he speaks, and the

1480
01:23:50,560 --> 01:23:54,800
way he you know, his handlers operate. I mean, none

1481
01:23:54,840 --> 01:23:57,920
of that is going to go to American citizens. I

1482
01:23:58,000 --> 01:24:03,920
mean that's going to go mostly to illegals first generation.

1483
01:24:04,720 --> 01:24:09,119
And that's not how you that's not how you start

1484
01:24:09,199 --> 01:24:11,800
a labor movement. That's not that's not a labor movement

1485
01:24:11,840 --> 01:24:12,119
at all.

1486
01:24:12,239 --> 01:24:12,720
Speaker 2: That's a.

1487
01:24:14,319 --> 01:24:17,560
Speaker 1: It's really just like a campaign promise that even if

1488
01:24:17,600 --> 01:24:20,720
he even if he carried through with it, he'd probably

1489
01:24:20,760 --> 01:24:23,640
started twenty which is still you know, you say what

1490
01:24:23,720 --> 01:24:27,720
you want about what what minimum wage does? I think

1491
01:24:27,760 --> 01:24:32,439
anyone with a remedial understanding of economics knows. But yeah,

1492
01:24:32,479 --> 01:24:35,640
that's not a labor movement. That's a yeah, that's that's

1493
01:24:35,720 --> 01:24:36,640
just begging for votes.

1494
01:24:38,479 --> 01:24:41,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, And I think you know, one thing that's really

1495
01:24:43,279 --> 01:24:45,560
it's something that we're going through on the right right now.

1496
01:24:45,960 --> 01:24:48,199
I think this is really the major blockage that we

1497
01:24:48,359 --> 01:24:53,960
have the you know, We're in this process right now

1498
01:24:54,079 --> 01:25:00,199
of trying to figure out figure out an ident any

1499
01:25:00,279 --> 01:25:03,199
that we can that we can all rally around that

1500
01:25:03,399 --> 01:25:05,359
is going to be like when you say, like we

1501
01:25:05,520 --> 01:25:08,840
need that that that a real uh labor movement, and

1502
01:25:09,000 --> 01:25:11,880
like in socialism even like that this can only really

1503
01:25:12,000 --> 01:25:15,000
work or exist in a nationalist context. We're in this

1504
01:25:15,199 --> 01:25:17,720
process right now where you know, so many of these

1505
01:25:17,760 --> 01:25:21,760
old identities and loyalties have broken down, much to our grief,

1506
01:25:21,880 --> 01:25:25,319
you know, in many ways. I was listening to Stormy

1507
01:25:25,399 --> 01:25:29,279
Waters talk to Astral a couple of weeks ago when

1508
01:25:29,279 --> 01:25:30,960
they were together, and I think I think Thomas might

1509
01:25:30,960 --> 01:25:33,520
have been on that one too, And Stormy was talking

1510
01:25:33,560 --> 01:25:37,800
about how he was talking about generational differences between right

1511
01:25:37,880 --> 01:25:40,920
wingers and how the youngsters there they expect everything to

1512
01:25:41,039 --> 01:25:45,319
happen now, whereas you know gen xers, like where we

1513
01:25:45,399 --> 01:25:48,239
are now is so unthinkable just a few years ago

1514
01:25:48,399 --> 01:25:51,399
for us that you know, we're kind of we're used

1515
01:25:51,439 --> 01:25:53,039
to the idea that this is going to be a

1516
01:25:53,119 --> 01:25:57,279
long process. It probably a generational process, and the you know,

1517
01:25:57,359 --> 01:26:02,319
the younger guys are very are very impatient, let's say,

1518
01:26:02,479 --> 01:26:04,840
And he was he was saying to them he speaking

1519
01:26:04,880 --> 01:26:07,359
to them. He was Stormy was saying, you know, you

1520
01:26:07,520 --> 01:26:10,079
have to remember that you grew up in this world

1521
01:26:10,119 --> 01:26:12,640
where all these symbols were kind of when you first

1522
01:26:12,960 --> 01:26:15,479
saw them, they were already lying in the gutter, you know,

1523
01:26:15,640 --> 01:26:19,479
whereas you know gen Xers and pat and people before that.

1524
01:26:20,319 --> 01:26:23,960
You know, these are things that we all loved until

1525
01:26:24,119 --> 01:26:27,079
very recently, and some of us still love. But we're

1526
01:26:27,119 --> 01:26:30,079
sort of figuring out how to process the fact that

1527
01:26:30,199 --> 01:26:33,920
these symbols are not our symbols anymore, and and sort

1528
01:26:33,960 --> 01:26:36,960
of going through the grieving process really, and that's something

1529
01:26:37,000 --> 01:26:39,319
that's very difficult to do, you know, it's really hard

1530
01:26:39,399 --> 01:26:45,880
to do. I know a guy, extremely prominent conservative, not

1531
01:26:46,199 --> 01:26:48,640
you know, he's maybe going in the direction of right

1532
01:26:48,720 --> 01:26:53,319
wing now, but like you know, he's a conservative who

1533
01:26:53,359 --> 01:26:58,479
everybody's heard of, who told me he during the Syrian

1534
01:26:58,760 --> 01:27:01,439
War and our role, that he took down his American

1535
01:27:01,520 --> 01:27:03,359
flag for the first time in his entire life. He

1536
01:27:03,399 --> 01:27:05,760
doesn't fly it anymore because he's just a shamed And

1537
01:27:05,840 --> 01:27:08,039
he was telling me this almost with tears in his eyes,

1538
01:27:08,720 --> 01:27:10,920
and I felt I felt what he was feeling. I

1539
01:27:11,039 --> 01:27:12,479
get it, man, Like you know, I come from a

1540
01:27:12,560 --> 01:27:16,239
family of veterans. I am a veteran. These are things

1541
01:27:16,279 --> 01:27:18,039
that you know, we all believed in and want to

1542
01:27:18,079 --> 01:27:20,199
continue believing in, and we're going through this process of

1543
01:27:20,279 --> 01:27:23,760
renegotiating what is our identity? And so you have, like,

1544
01:27:24,319 --> 01:27:29,760
you know, you have the MAGA movement, which is you know,

1545
01:27:29,920 --> 01:27:35,079
it's sort of it's it's sort of an unofficial, unofficially

1546
01:27:35,279 --> 01:27:38,560
heritage American movement like in some ways, but you know,

1547
01:27:39,119 --> 01:27:41,520
outwardly and and I think like you know, if you

1548
01:27:41,680 --> 01:27:43,920
if you go to most of the people who are

1549
01:27:44,000 --> 01:27:46,199
driving the movement, like in their own like the way

1550
01:27:46,279 --> 01:27:50,119
they think about it, you know, it's a it's not

1551
01:27:50,439 --> 01:27:52,760
it doesn't anything to do with race or you know,

1552
01:27:53,239 --> 01:27:57,239
the heritage part or whatever. It's a it's essentially still

1553
01:27:57,279 --> 01:28:00,520
a propositional thing, you know, maybe different than the ones

1554
01:28:00,560 --> 01:28:02,600
that they that the one the Daily Wire would push,

1555
01:28:02,680 --> 01:28:05,239
but still still is that to to a large degree,

1556
01:28:05,600 --> 01:28:07,199
you know, you're not going to tell most people in

1557
01:28:07,279 --> 01:28:12,279
the MAGA movement that you know, jd. Vance doesn't count

1558
01:28:12,359 --> 01:28:14,359
because his wife is an Indian. And yet on the

1559
01:28:14,479 --> 01:28:17,560
right you have those discussions going on right now and

1560
01:28:17,640 --> 01:28:19,560
people are trying to figure out, well, who is us,

1561
01:28:19,880 --> 01:28:22,199
who is the who are the people that all of

1562
01:28:22,279 --> 01:28:25,600
this is supposed to be for, you know, if we're organizing,

1563
01:28:25,680 --> 01:28:29,479
if we're trying to renegotiate the terms of class relations

1564
01:28:29,560 --> 01:28:32,039
or any of these things, who's we like, what are

1565
01:28:32,079 --> 01:28:34,760
we talking about? And right wingers don't know right now?

1566
01:28:35,319 --> 01:28:38,239
And the ones who think they know, you know, they're

1567
01:28:38,279 --> 01:28:42,159
either a strong minority or their their idea of it

1568
01:28:42,319 --> 01:28:45,039
is much more incoherent than they like to believe, you know,

1569
01:28:45,119 --> 01:28:47,279
which I would say the MAGA movement, you know, is

1570
01:28:47,399 --> 01:28:49,880
in a lot of ways, you know, it's again, it

1571
01:28:50,039 --> 01:28:57,079
is essentially a white heritage American conservative movement that not

1572
01:28:57,319 --> 01:28:59,199
just for practical reasons, but for some of the reasons

1573
01:28:59,239 --> 01:29:01,239
I was just kind of just describing, you know, emotional

1574
01:29:01,319 --> 01:29:05,359
reasons and psychological reasons, can't really admit what it is,

1575
01:29:06,079 --> 01:29:10,159
and so has trouble sort of elucidating, like, you know,

1576
01:29:11,720 --> 01:29:13,840
the demands of the people that it represents, because it

1577
01:29:13,880 --> 01:29:16,479
doesn't necessarily know who those people are, you know. And

1578
01:29:16,680 --> 01:29:19,399
so the reason I think this is such an obstacle

1579
01:29:19,439 --> 01:29:21,319
for us on the right right now is everybody seems

1580
01:29:21,319 --> 01:29:24,359
to be in this holding pattern where they're like, until

1581
01:29:24,479 --> 01:29:27,720
we figure this out, we can't do anything else. You know,

1582
01:29:28,439 --> 01:29:30,760
if this is because you know, think about this, like

1583
01:29:31,000 --> 01:29:33,680
if you go Thomas was talking about Germany handling their

1584
01:29:34,079 --> 01:29:38,960
class relations in a in a good in a let's say,

1585
01:29:39,000 --> 01:29:43,319
a productive manner, and that's true. And you know, under

1586
01:29:43,359 --> 01:29:46,840
Bismarck they had the first national health system, and you know,

1587
01:29:46,840 --> 01:29:48,920
a bunch of other things that were unheard of at

1588
01:29:48,960 --> 01:29:52,319
the time globally, just in terms of workers protections and

1589
01:29:53,119 --> 01:29:58,119
social security things like that. And it was one thing

1590
01:29:58,239 --> 01:30:01,760
for Germany to do those things because they looked at

1591
01:30:01,960 --> 01:30:04,319
they looked around, they knew who they were doing this for.

1592
01:30:04,520 --> 01:30:07,199
They were doing this for the German people. In the

1593
01:30:07,359 --> 01:30:12,159
United States, we've always had a very different relationship to

1594
01:30:12,760 --> 01:30:17,199
to not only labor organizing, but also social welfare just

1595
01:30:17,279 --> 01:30:21,840
because most of those things emerged they were either organized

1596
01:30:21,840 --> 01:30:25,359
by in the case of labor, or they were organized

1597
01:30:25,479 --> 01:30:31,000
for the benefit of recently arrived immigrant populations that you know,

1598
01:30:31,199 --> 01:30:33,800
like all poor immigrant populations that show up on MOSTU

1599
01:30:33,880 --> 01:30:36,319
A country are very often unpopular with the you know,

1600
01:30:36,840 --> 01:30:40,039
the host population. So you know, something like the public

1601
01:30:40,079 --> 01:30:43,600
school system. People see that. In Germany, they set up

1602
01:30:43,600 --> 01:30:46,159
a public school system to train up the German youth

1603
01:30:46,520 --> 01:30:49,079
in America, we started a public school system because there

1604
01:30:49,119 --> 01:30:52,000
were a bunch of Irish orphans running around the streets

1605
01:30:52,039 --> 01:30:55,600
of New York and everywhere else, just causing mayhem. And

1606
01:30:55,840 --> 01:30:58,439
we had to civilize these these kids and raise them

1607
01:30:58,520 --> 01:31:01,840
up so that they could, you know, be members of society.

1608
01:31:02,359 --> 01:31:04,520
And later on, when you get into that, like the

1609
01:31:04,600 --> 01:31:07,960
eighteen nineties and the first decade of the nineteen hundreds,

1610
01:31:08,000 --> 01:31:09,199
it is the same thing. You know, you get the

1611
01:31:09,279 --> 01:31:12,840
influx of southern and Eastern Europeans and then a lot

1612
01:31:12,920 --> 01:31:16,159
of these the expansion of of what became the welfare

1613
01:31:16,239 --> 01:31:18,159
state emerged as a result of that, and so people

1614
01:31:18,239 --> 01:31:21,000
always saw it as something that I'm paying for for

1615
01:31:21,119 --> 01:31:24,079
these other people, and there's been a resistance to this

1616
01:31:24,199 --> 01:31:26,159
kind of thing. And then labor also again, you know,

1617
01:31:27,840 --> 01:31:31,159
even something like the Battle of Blair Mountain, you think like, well,

1618
01:31:31,159 --> 01:31:34,079
it's like the hills of West Virginia, coal miners in

1619
01:31:34,119 --> 01:31:38,039
West Virginia. He doesn't get more American than that. Huge

1620
01:31:38,159 --> 01:31:42,560
number of those people were recently arrived Italians, Irishmen, others

1621
01:31:42,600 --> 01:31:44,640
who had just had just gotten there. And so people,

1622
01:31:45,680 --> 01:31:47,640
you know, people would literally be they would get off

1623
01:31:47,680 --> 01:31:49,800
the boat and they'd be told they got a great

1624
01:31:49,880 --> 01:31:51,840
job for you, you know, running a machine at a

1625
01:31:51,960 --> 01:31:53,840
mine down in West Virginia if you want to go,

1626
01:31:53,880 --> 01:31:56,720
and they send them down there, and they just their

1627
01:31:56,760 --> 01:31:58,439
handed the shovel and a pick and told to get

1628
01:31:58,479 --> 01:32:00,600
on their knees and crawl into the all into the whole,

1629
01:32:00,680 --> 01:32:03,800
you know. But you know, so people saw the labor

1630
01:32:03,920 --> 01:32:08,319
organizing as something also that was that was essentially like

1631
01:32:08,439 --> 01:32:11,800
a foreign intrusion, and and that wasn't help once you

1632
01:32:11,920 --> 01:32:14,560
did start getting a lot of the organized crime infiltration

1633
01:32:14,720 --> 01:32:17,199
because again these weren't Anglo gangs. They were Jewish and

1634
01:32:17,279 --> 01:32:20,159
Italian gangs that were doing it, you know. And and

1635
01:32:20,239 --> 01:32:24,119
so people definitely saw it that way then. And that's

1636
01:32:24,199 --> 01:32:28,159
something that that that we've had to overcome before. And

1637
01:32:28,439 --> 01:32:32,279
and uh, you know, it was it was aborted before

1638
01:32:32,359 --> 01:32:36,119
that process was was completed. But it's something that we're

1639
01:32:36,119 --> 01:32:38,079
gonna have to do again, because I mean, I don't know,

1640
01:32:38,159 --> 01:32:39,640
maybe you have a different take on this, because I

1641
01:32:39,640 --> 01:32:42,279
would love to be told I'm wrong. It just seems

1642
01:32:42,319 --> 01:32:45,439
to me that so many right wingers like they almost

1643
01:32:45,760 --> 01:32:50,039
it's there's almost a refusal to pursue other goals until

1644
01:32:50,279 --> 01:32:54,000
we come to some sort of consensus about who we

1645
01:32:54,119 --> 01:32:56,199
are and what our identity consists of and who's in

1646
01:32:56,319 --> 01:32:58,520
and who's out. And that to me is a problem

1647
01:32:58,680 --> 01:33:01,920
just because it's all been hard to settle that question

1648
01:33:02,079 --> 01:33:05,000
in America. As much as people like to think that

1649
01:33:05,439 --> 01:33:07,640
it's not the it was always hard to settle that

1650
01:33:07,760 --> 01:33:10,159
question in America. We've always been in a state of

1651
01:33:10,239 --> 01:33:13,880
demographic flux and having to renegotiate our identity each generation

1652
01:33:14,079 --> 01:33:17,039
with new arrivals and and you know, figure out who

1653
01:33:17,119 --> 01:33:19,800
can be worked into the American body politic and who

1654
01:33:19,840 --> 01:33:22,159
has to be excluded from it. And so that's like

1655
01:33:22,279 --> 01:33:26,760
always kind of been the case. And yeah, I don't know,

1656
01:33:26,920 --> 01:33:28,520
like what do I mean, what do you think when

1657
01:33:29,520 --> 01:33:31,720
of that idea that you know that this question has

1658
01:33:31,800 --> 01:33:33,880
to be settled before we can think about things like

1659
01:33:34,039 --> 01:33:37,159
labor relations or whatever else, Because at that point, like

1660
01:33:37,199 --> 01:33:39,840
who you know, relations with who, it seems like people

1661
01:33:39,880 --> 01:33:40,920
can't answer that question.

1662
01:33:41,079 --> 01:33:41,279
Speaker 2: Yet.

1663
01:33:42,880 --> 01:33:45,760
Speaker 1: Well, I think that you you can get to the

1664
01:33:45,840 --> 01:33:51,479
point where things get so bad and you see libertarians

1665
01:33:51,520 --> 01:33:53,880
do this, and as a former libertarian, all that that

1666
01:33:54,000 --> 01:33:59,920
you just go to the extreme of purity. Yeah, I

1667
01:34:00,159 --> 01:34:02,800
have people tell me all the time I'm sorry, your

1668
01:34:02,880 --> 01:34:06,119
last name precludes you from this. Okay, that's fine, I

1669
01:34:06,199 --> 01:34:09,319
mean sure, I mean you're you're in a non on Twitter,

1670
01:34:10,000 --> 01:34:13,800
and I'm actually out here like busting my ass to

1671
01:34:13,920 --> 01:34:17,159
try and defeat this regime, you know, and putting my

1672
01:34:17,640 --> 01:34:20,359
name out there, putting my face out there, organizing with

1673
01:34:20,520 --> 01:34:27,239
other people and seeking to you know. So yeah, I think, yeah,

1674
01:34:27,279 --> 01:34:29,279
the whole thing about you know, Like, I think one

1675
01:34:29,319 --> 01:34:36,079
of the best examples is JD. Vance because to me,

1676
01:34:36,920 --> 01:34:38,239
this is the way I look at Jada E.

1677
01:34:38,319 --> 01:34:38,600
Speaker 2: Vance.

1678
01:34:39,119 --> 01:34:41,520
Speaker 1: I only want to know what he's done, what he's

1679
01:34:41,560 --> 01:34:45,760
done since he's become a Catholic, you know, because it

1680
01:34:45,880 --> 01:34:55,479
seems like he had this weird, just weird fucking millennial upbringing,

1681
01:34:56,039 --> 01:34:58,760
you know, with mixed in with you know, some goth

1682
01:34:58,880 --> 01:35:01,720
and you know, mixed in with some white trash. Changed

1683
01:35:01,760 --> 01:35:05,119
his name a bunch of times because he's as deracinated

1684
01:35:05,159 --> 01:35:07,239
as a lot of people are have no idea who

1685
01:35:07,319 --> 01:35:10,520
they are. And then he marries he marries an Indian,

1686
01:35:11,279 --> 01:35:14,520
and I'm like, okay, well he became a Catholic.

1687
01:35:14,319 --> 01:35:15,479
Speaker 2: Four or five years ago.

1688
01:35:16,560 --> 01:35:19,000
Speaker 1: I read his letter of why he became a Catholic,

1689
01:35:19,800 --> 01:35:21,520
and I tend to give him the benefit of the

1690
01:35:21,600 --> 01:35:24,239
doubt and want to know what he's done, what he's

1691
01:35:24,359 --> 01:35:27,960
said since and done, since he's become a Catholic. There

1692
01:35:28,000 --> 01:35:30,159
are people on the right who will say, well, he

1693
01:35:30,279 --> 01:35:33,399
needs to divorce his wife and deport them. Well, these

1694
01:35:33,439 --> 01:35:37,399
aren't serious people. They're not They're never going to be

1695
01:35:37,479 --> 01:35:40,600
a part of my group. They're never you know, I

1696
01:35:40,680 --> 01:35:43,439
have nothing to do with them. I'm not denouncing them

1697
01:35:43,479 --> 01:35:45,720
and saying they shouldn't have a job. I'm just saying,

1698
01:35:45,800 --> 01:35:48,640
stay the fuck away from me, because you're retarded. Those

1699
01:35:48,640 --> 01:35:50,039
are like the people when I tell him, hey, I

1700
01:35:50,079 --> 01:35:51,840
don't have any kids, They're like, well, you can still

1701
01:35:51,880 --> 01:35:54,359
have kids. I'm like, so I'm supposed to divorce my wife, right,

1702
01:35:54,680 --> 01:35:56,880
Is that what you're fucking telling me I need to do,

1703
01:35:57,079 --> 01:36:01,479
you fucking scumbacks. So I have a group, you know,

1704
01:36:01,880 --> 01:36:04,479
I have a core group, call it a van guard,

1705
01:36:04,600 --> 01:36:08,119
call it whatever you want, and we just decide what

1706
01:36:08,359 --> 01:36:10,960
we you know, how we want to go forward. And

1707
01:36:12,199 --> 01:36:16,279
people who are just barking, you know, we're going to organize. Okay,

1708
01:36:16,399 --> 01:36:20,399
we're gonna we're going to organize our communities and you

1709
01:36:20,640 --> 01:36:24,239
will decide. We'll decide who can be a part of it.

1710
01:36:24,399 --> 01:36:28,039
Who can't? And but we take a realistic we take

1711
01:36:28,079 --> 01:36:31,279
a realistic approach to it. You know, I'm obviously not

1712
01:36:31,359 --> 01:36:34,560
a heritage American. I'm third generation American on one side,

1713
01:36:34,600 --> 01:36:38,159
four generation American on the other. So I'm not heritage American.

1714
01:36:38,520 --> 01:36:43,880
But I mean, how many heritage how many sadly, how

1715
01:36:43,920 --> 01:36:47,039
many daughters, you know, daughters of the American Revolution out

1716
01:36:47,079 --> 01:36:49,359
there are fucking pink hareed wild the beasts.

1717
01:36:50,359 --> 01:36:51,039
Speaker 2: You know, It's like.

1718
01:36:52,680 --> 01:36:56,760
Speaker 1: You sort of have to when you're you know, it's

1719
01:36:56,880 --> 01:37:00,359
like a certain mid scent, a certain mid century German

1720
01:37:00,960 --> 01:37:02,800
when they started putting the when they started putting the

1721
01:37:02,920 --> 01:37:07,279
army together to fight against communism, They're like, well, we're

1722
01:37:07,319 --> 01:37:09,479
going to have to loosen up some of the rules

1723
01:37:09,520 --> 01:37:12,840
here because we need people and we're going to have

1724
01:37:12,960 --> 01:37:17,560
to wow like other countries want to join in the

1725
01:37:17,640 --> 01:37:21,000
fight and everything. And these are probably people we wouldn't normally.

1726
01:37:22,520 --> 01:37:24,560
You know, we'll trade with them, but we don't want

1727
01:37:24,600 --> 01:37:26,479
to have that closer relationship with them.

1728
01:37:27,199 --> 01:37:27,840
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't know.

1729
01:37:28,239 --> 01:37:30,800
Speaker 1: You know, you're right about America, and anyone who doesn't

1730
01:37:30,880 --> 01:37:35,039
understand that America, because of all the influx that's happened,

1731
01:37:35,199 --> 01:37:39,399
especially since like eighteen eighty that it's it's it's hard

1732
01:37:39,560 --> 01:37:42,279
to figure figure this all out. But you know what

1733
01:37:42,760 --> 01:37:45,600
you when you meet someone, you know, all you have

1734
01:37:45,640 --> 01:37:47,159
to do is talk to them for five minutes and

1735
01:37:47,199 --> 01:37:48,039
you fucking.

1736
01:37:47,840 --> 01:37:52,520
Speaker 4: Know, yeah, yeah, you know. I tell people sometimes like, uh,

1737
01:37:53,439 --> 01:37:58,960
you think about like you're like first half of the

1738
01:37:59,119 --> 01:38:04,199
like early twenty century, like Arab Bedouin from Arabia, Like, however,

1739
01:38:05,800 --> 01:38:08,439
hardcore about your in group you think you are? In

1740
01:38:08,520 --> 01:38:12,439
twenty twenty five, they're way more hardcore. And when T. E.

1741
01:38:12,600 --> 01:38:15,159
Lawrence was over there, like after the war, they wanted

1742
01:38:15,239 --> 01:38:17,039
him to stay. They said, you know, you're one of us,

1743
01:38:17,199 --> 01:38:19,079
Like stay with us. We'll find you a nice young

1744
01:38:19,159 --> 01:38:22,000
virgin girl, and just don't go back to your old life.

1745
01:38:22,039 --> 01:38:24,199
Stay here and be one of us. And you know,

1746
01:38:24,399 --> 01:38:27,279
these are people who are obsessively in group. You know,

1747
01:38:27,439 --> 01:38:29,760
it's I against my brother, I and my brother against

1748
01:38:29,800 --> 01:38:32,079
my cousin. I'm my brother and my cousin against the world,

1749
01:38:32,199 --> 01:38:34,800
you know. And yet even they could see that this

1750
01:38:35,039 --> 01:38:38,680
if this guy's one of us spiritually, you know, or psychologically,

1751
01:38:38,800 --> 01:38:43,000
just one of us proven himself through struggle, then he's

1752
01:38:43,039 --> 01:38:44,840
one of us, you know, and yeah, we're not going

1753
01:38:44,920 --> 01:38:47,239
to invite his whole country and here to marry all

1754
01:38:47,319 --> 01:38:51,079
of our daughters. But but this guy, you know, he's

1755
01:38:51,119 --> 01:38:53,840
a valuable addition to our clan. And you know, and

1756
01:38:55,319 --> 01:38:57,560
having that if you know, if they can find room

1757
01:38:57,680 --> 01:39:00,039
for that kind of thinking, you would think that that

1758
01:39:00,640 --> 01:39:04,159
anybody today, especially somebody who's actually serious about trying to

1759
01:39:04,319 --> 01:39:06,479
organize a right wing movement, you know, and not just

1760
01:39:07,680 --> 01:39:10,760
talk about it on the internet. You know, you have

1761
01:39:10,920 --> 01:39:12,920
to have some some amount of realism when it comes

1762
01:39:12,960 --> 01:39:15,199
to that, whatever your feelings about it. I mean, I

1763
01:39:15,279 --> 01:39:19,119
would just say, like, I mean, yeah, look at like

1764
01:39:19,199 --> 01:39:21,439
somebody like Vance. I mean, he's an interesting story just

1765
01:39:21,520 --> 01:39:26,159
because you know, I can identify to a certain degree

1766
01:39:26,239 --> 01:39:31,159
with you know, like like the way he grew up

1767
01:39:32,279 --> 01:39:34,720
and then too you know, after he joined the Marine

1768
01:39:34,760 --> 01:39:36,880
Corps and got back and he went to Ohio State

1769
01:39:37,000 --> 01:39:39,960
and he got into Yale. Like when you when you

1770
01:39:40,079 --> 01:39:43,640
come from the environment that he came from, you know, drugs,

1771
01:39:43,720 --> 01:39:49,399
mental illness, just all the kind of broken family, American vulgarity,

1772
01:39:49,560 --> 01:39:51,680
and you know that we that we see in a

1773
01:39:51,760 --> 01:39:54,039
lot of places, unfortunately in my own line, I mean

1774
01:39:54,359 --> 01:39:56,399
I had my dad's side. We're all Okies that came

1775
01:39:56,439 --> 01:39:58,479
out to California during the dust Bowl, and you know,

1776
01:39:58,680 --> 01:40:00,439
these were people who've been through a lot out in there.

1777
01:40:00,720 --> 01:40:02,960
By the time they got down to my parents' generation,

1778
01:40:03,239 --> 01:40:05,239
like everything had just fallen apart and we really had

1779
01:40:05,279 --> 01:40:07,319
to my generations kind of had to put back together,

1780
01:40:07,439 --> 01:40:10,359
you know, and build sort of stable middle class family

1781
01:40:10,479 --> 01:40:13,000
units out of this detritus that like ran up against

1782
01:40:13,039 --> 01:40:17,119
the ocean in California. And when you escape and get

1783
01:40:17,199 --> 01:40:19,960
out of a milieu like that that you you know,

1784
01:40:20,079 --> 01:40:22,319
lived in as a child, and you get into a

1785
01:40:22,359 --> 01:40:24,840
place where it's not as vulgar, it's not as chaotic

1786
01:40:24,920 --> 01:40:27,279
and all that, you can, you know, especially at first,

1787
01:40:27,359 --> 01:40:30,039
you can fetishize it a little bit and start to

1788
01:40:31,279 --> 01:40:35,279
really want to fit in, like and really like find

1789
01:40:35,359 --> 01:40:38,720
ways to demonstrate your rejection of the of the environment

1790
01:40:38,800 --> 01:40:41,319
you came from, you know. And so when I hear him, like,

1791
01:40:41,399 --> 01:40:44,319
you know, people talk about how in the you know,

1792
01:40:44,439 --> 01:40:47,079
he said Trump was hitler or whatever bad things he

1793
01:40:47,119 --> 01:40:50,359
said about Trump in the first administration. You know, it's

1794
01:40:50,439 --> 01:40:52,720
like this guy was like two years out of college.

1795
01:40:53,359 --> 01:40:56,159
He had just written this book that he's going around

1796
01:40:56,239 --> 01:40:58,279
to all of these places that growing up he thought

1797
01:40:58,319 --> 01:41:00,880
he would be forever excluded from, and they're all telling

1798
01:41:00,960 --> 01:41:02,800
him how wonderful he is and how great he is,

1799
01:41:02,880 --> 01:41:04,800
and he got caught up in that and kind of

1800
01:41:04,840 --> 01:41:08,239
wanted to identify with it, you know, and over time,

1801
01:41:08,880 --> 01:41:11,199
you know, the way he tells it, I don't know

1802
01:41:11,199 --> 01:41:13,279
if he's talked about this publicly, but the way he

1803
01:41:13,399 --> 01:41:16,760
tells it is, you know, the thing that really brought

1804
01:41:16,800 --> 01:41:19,039
him around is just realizing that all the same people

1805
01:41:19,119 --> 01:41:22,199
who hate Trump and hate Maga hate every single member

1806
01:41:22,279 --> 01:41:25,079
of his family and want them dead. And so that

1807
01:41:25,600 --> 01:41:27,319
was enough. You know, That's the thing where he kind

1808
01:41:27,359 --> 01:41:29,079
of the light went on and he kind of he

1809
01:41:29,199 --> 01:41:31,720
kind of realized whose side he really had to be on,

1810
01:41:32,279 --> 01:41:35,960
you know, and and that's good enough for me, like

1811
01:41:36,079 --> 01:41:38,439
until he proves otherwise, you know, in some way like

1812
01:41:38,520 --> 01:41:43,600
that's good enough for me. You know, we don't we

1813
01:41:43,680 --> 01:41:48,560
don't get too invested in politicians obviously, because you know,

1814
01:41:49,159 --> 01:41:53,399
we agree very much, like on on the principle that

1815
01:41:54,840 --> 01:41:58,079
you know that this movement is something you really have

1816
01:41:58,239 --> 01:42:00,279
to build out from the ground up. I mean that

1817
01:42:00,920 --> 01:42:04,439
we're that that that success means winning a bunch of

1818
01:42:04,520 --> 01:42:07,960
elections and taking over a bunch of political offices. That's just,

1819
01:42:08,159 --> 01:42:11,279
that's just if people still believe that, Like you really

1820
01:42:11,359 --> 01:42:13,399
got to think harder about it and really take a

1821
01:42:13,560 --> 01:42:15,600
take a look at at how things have gone over

1822
01:42:15,640 --> 01:42:19,600
the last eighty years, because you know the problem is,

1823
01:42:19,720 --> 01:42:23,680
like people on the right, we never learned to organ

1824
01:42:23,760 --> 01:42:26,479
the right wing never learned to organize because the institute

1825
01:42:26,520 --> 01:42:30,760
you were your conservatives, The institutions were your organizations. You know,

1826
01:42:31,439 --> 01:42:34,439
the military was your organization, all of the you know,

1827
01:42:34,600 --> 01:42:37,119
the all of the things that that that were part

1828
01:42:37,119 --> 01:42:39,520
of the status quo power structure. Like that's what being

1829
01:42:39,560 --> 01:42:43,319
a conservative meant, basically, was was protecting and acting through

1830
01:42:43,399 --> 01:42:46,000
those things. The left had to learn to organize at

1831
01:42:46,039 --> 01:42:50,039
the street level just to exist, and so they're good

1832
01:42:50,079 --> 01:42:53,399
at it. We're not. Now. We woke up one day, uh,

1833
01:42:53,680 --> 01:42:56,199
and they're in control of all the institutions that we

1834
01:42:56,319 --> 01:42:58,920
used to call our own, and we're having to figure

1835
01:42:58,960 --> 01:43:01,640
out on the fly how to how to organize. And

1836
01:43:02,239 --> 01:43:04,560
people on the right, I find they don't even realize

1837
01:43:04,640 --> 01:43:08,359
how necessary and important it is. You know, they think

1838
01:43:08,479 --> 01:43:12,600
that something you know, like like big political changes don't

1839
01:43:12,680 --> 01:43:15,039
happen because a lot of people want them to happen.

1840
01:43:15,479 --> 01:43:19,079
They happen because organized groups that can exercise power want

1841
01:43:19,159 --> 01:43:21,640
them to happen. And so if you don't organize first

1842
01:43:21,720 --> 01:43:24,439
and nothing, you're not going to accomplish anything politically, you know.

1843
01:43:24,960 --> 01:43:27,319
And if you do win politically, and this is kind

1844
01:43:27,359 --> 01:43:30,039
of the the worry, and I think one that's being

1845
01:43:30,119 --> 01:43:34,800
born out well right now is you know, the Trump

1846
01:43:34,960 --> 01:43:37,239
is very much like a He's kind of a Caesar figure,

1847
01:43:37,359 --> 01:43:41,560
you know, where the movement and really just politics in

1848
01:43:41,640 --> 01:43:44,119
general has been swallowed up into his personality.

1849
01:43:44,680 --> 01:43:45,039
Speaker 3: And JD.

1850
01:43:45,239 --> 01:43:47,119
Speaker 4: Vance I think he has a lot going for him,

1851
01:43:47,600 --> 01:43:50,079
but man, it's going to be really hard to step

1852
01:43:50,159 --> 01:43:53,119
into those shoes and keep the coalition together and keep

1853
01:43:53,159 --> 01:43:57,079
the energy moving, you know, and right now, like that's

1854
01:43:57,119 --> 01:44:00,319
the best hope because we're not organized yet and so

1855
01:44:00,640 --> 01:44:03,399
rallying around another leader is really the best we got.

1856
01:44:03,479 --> 01:44:04,880
But that's just not sustainable.

1857
01:44:05,359 --> 01:44:05,520
Speaker 3: You know.

1858
01:44:05,960 --> 01:44:07,760
Speaker 4: You have to have it so that we don't need

1859
01:44:08,600 --> 01:44:12,680
another Trump, We don't need Advance to step into those shoes, like,

1860
01:44:13,159 --> 01:44:16,399
you know, it's good to have somebody there who draws

1861
01:44:16,479 --> 01:44:19,159
more people in and keeps them in the same place

1862
01:44:19,319 --> 01:44:21,399
long enough that now we're getting to know each other,

1863
01:44:21,560 --> 01:44:24,520
we're developing these communities and starting to organize with each other.

1864
01:44:24,600 --> 01:44:27,000
But the goal is to get to a point where

1865
01:44:27,399 --> 01:44:29,520
it doesn't matter like that that person at the top

1866
01:44:30,199 --> 01:44:33,000
can be more or less inspiring, more or less effective,

1867
01:44:33,159 --> 01:44:36,239
or whatever. But really they're writing on our coattails rather

1868
01:44:36,359 --> 01:44:38,720
than we are writing on theirs. And that has to

1869
01:44:38,800 --> 01:44:41,800
be the goal, you know, because just having a charismatic

1870
01:44:41,920 --> 01:44:44,039
leader to hold your movement together forever, it's just not

1871
01:44:44,119 --> 01:44:44,960
going to work forever.

1872
01:44:47,640 --> 01:44:50,319
Speaker 1: That's the same thing I bet. I've tried to tell

1873
01:44:50,399 --> 01:44:56,920
people about the quote unquote influencer class. Most of the

1874
01:44:57,000 --> 01:45:00,680
influencer class, I see, they just want to be right.

1875
01:45:00,840 --> 01:45:03,239
They want to be worshiped, and they just want people

1876
01:45:03,359 --> 01:45:06,800
to know that they're They want people to rally around them.

1877
01:45:07,800 --> 01:45:10,439
Speaker 2: I don't I don't care. I just want to win.

1878
01:45:11,119 --> 01:45:13,119
Speaker 1: I don't you know. It's like it's like the whole

1879
01:45:13,199 --> 01:45:19,520
thing with with Israel. It's like, why am I going

1880
01:45:21,079 --> 01:45:25,239
Why am I going to counter signal like the Palestinians

1881
01:45:25,359 --> 01:45:29,640
Because they're not my people, they're fighting my enemy. So

1882
01:45:29,840 --> 01:45:33,560
what I mean, what do you It goes back to

1883
01:45:33,640 --> 01:45:38,840
the whole libertarian kind of purity spiral thing. It's like, look,

1884
01:45:38,920 --> 01:45:42,520
I don't I don't care who defeats my enemy.

1885
01:45:43,359 --> 01:45:44,159
Speaker 2: It doesn't have to be me.

1886
01:45:44,680 --> 01:45:46,079
Speaker 1: And if it is me, if I have something to

1887
01:45:46,159 --> 01:45:47,720
do with it, I don't even need to take credit.

1888
01:45:47,760 --> 01:45:49,439
I probably won't even want to take credit for it,

1889
01:45:50,279 --> 01:45:54,640
if you're if we're being serious, But it seems like

1890
01:45:54,680 --> 01:45:57,199
people just want credit. They want to be like a superstar,

1891
01:45:57,319 --> 01:45:59,520
they want to be No, it's none of that. It's like,

1892
01:45:59,640 --> 01:46:03,199
you know, Reagan was Reagan was not a good president

1893
01:46:03,239 --> 01:46:05,760
when you look back on him upon what he did.

1894
01:46:05,880 --> 01:46:07,319
But you know, one of the things he said was

1895
01:46:07,399 --> 01:46:09,199
he said, it's amazing the things you can do if

1896
01:46:09,239 --> 01:46:10,279
you don't want credit for them.

1897
01:46:12,079 --> 01:46:14,760
Speaker 4: So, yeah, Reagan is somebody I have mixed feelings on

1898
01:46:14,840 --> 01:46:19,479
for a million reasons. The amnesty obviously, but you know whatever,

1899
01:46:19,520 --> 01:46:21,960
I get pretty leftist when I start talking about, you know,

1900
01:46:23,159 --> 01:46:25,800
his actions in El Salvador and all that. But you know,

1901
01:46:25,960 --> 01:46:27,720
that's a separate issue. But like so, I'm not a

1902
01:46:27,840 --> 01:46:29,520
huge fan of Reagan. But at the same time, and

1903
01:46:29,600 --> 01:46:31,520
you think about what the president is, who's sort of

1904
01:46:31,640 --> 01:46:35,760
the high priest of the American civic religion. Man, I mean,

1905
01:46:36,399 --> 01:46:39,239
you can't You can't gain sam on that count. You know,

1906
01:46:39,319 --> 01:46:42,960
he brought a totally demoralized country out of the Carter administration,

1907
01:46:43,159 --> 01:46:44,760
so that by the time he handed it off the

1908
01:46:44,800 --> 01:46:47,800
Bush people were in a good mood, man like and

1909
01:46:47,960 --> 01:46:50,760
and people felt like we were headed forward towards something

1910
01:46:51,319 --> 01:46:54,800
rather than in a state of collapse like we were in.

1911
01:46:56,479 --> 01:47:00,640
Speaker 1: And you could say, well, yeah, but we were someone

1912
01:47:00,720 --> 01:47:04,920
saying you won't talk about Israel, apparently you've never you've never.

1913
01:47:04,880 --> 01:47:05,439
Speaker 2: Talked about is.

1914
01:47:09,079 --> 01:47:11,560
Speaker 4: Well, can I say I got the call you know.

1915
01:47:18,960 --> 01:47:22,199
Speaker 2: Three what was that three hours? You just recently never mind?

1916
01:47:22,479 --> 01:47:30,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, oh, but you know, yeah, like Reagan, I mean,

1917
01:47:31,680 --> 01:47:33,800
like Trump is that is kind of this way too

1918
01:47:34,039 --> 01:47:36,640
right where it's like so many things to criticize about Trump,

1919
01:47:37,199 --> 01:47:41,239
But to me, you know, he brought people together who

1920
01:47:41,600 --> 01:47:45,199
were previously separated and needed to be brought together. But

1921
01:47:45,319 --> 01:47:47,920
then from there it's on them on us to like

1922
01:47:48,119 --> 01:47:51,640
pick that baton up. And remember also that you know

1923
01:47:51,800 --> 01:47:53,840
that not everybody You don't want to live in a

1924
01:47:53,920 --> 01:47:57,680
country where everybody's a revolutionary, everybody's a political activist. That

1925
01:47:57,800 --> 01:48:00,399
is a ship country. Like when you say that guy

1926
01:48:00,560 --> 01:48:04,520
just wants to watch sports ball and grill. It's like, dude,

1927
01:48:04,560 --> 01:48:06,880
in a healthy country, that's all anybody wants to do.

1928
01:48:07,520 --> 01:48:10,520
And our job, you know, as people who are engaged

1929
01:48:10,560 --> 01:48:13,239
with this stuff, is to create the country that that

1930
01:48:13,359 --> 01:48:15,680
guy can just watch sports ball and grill in like

1931
01:48:15,840 --> 01:48:18,199
and that that's fine. That's what he should be doing,

1932
01:48:18,239 --> 01:48:19,880
you know, with his sons and with his neighbors, and

1933
01:48:20,000 --> 01:48:22,640
create the country where that's actually possible. It's what we

1934
01:48:22,760 --> 01:48:25,000
want him doing. You know, most people, and you talk

1935
01:48:25,039 --> 01:48:28,119
about with the influencer class, most people are not psychologically

1936
01:48:28,159 --> 01:48:30,079
cut out to be involved with politics.

1937
01:48:30,560 --> 01:48:30,720
Speaker 2: You know.

1938
01:48:30,880 --> 01:48:37,880
Speaker 4: It engenders paranoia, It engenders like hard us versus them, hostility, purity, spiraling,

1939
01:48:37,960 --> 01:48:39,600
all these things we see all the time when you

1940
01:48:40,000 --> 01:48:42,239
I mean, even people who are in the game like deeply,

1941
01:48:43,319 --> 01:48:45,800
you know, and for a long periods of time, even generationally,

1942
01:48:46,720 --> 01:48:48,920
they sometimes they go off the deep end because it's

1943
01:48:49,359 --> 01:48:51,800
you know, not everybody is sort of psychologically cut out,

1944
01:48:51,960 --> 01:48:54,199
is certainly not to be involved in it twenty four

1945
01:48:54,199 --> 01:48:55,880
to seven, the way a lot of people are today.

1946
01:48:56,239 --> 01:48:59,279
And similarly, like with the influencer class, you'll like, people

1947
01:48:59,319 --> 01:49:03,800
are not psychologically and emotionally prepared to deal with the

1948
01:49:03,880 --> 01:49:09,279
pressures of like I like even think about, like how

1949
01:49:09,319 --> 01:49:13,600
many people on X have five or ten thousand followers, right,

1950
01:49:14,560 --> 01:49:16,720
and we think that's nothing, you know, I mean there's

1951
01:49:16,840 --> 01:49:19,800
millions of all these huge accounts whatever. But dude, like,

1952
01:49:20,520 --> 01:49:23,119
for most of history, if you were writing something or

1953
01:49:23,199 --> 01:49:26,319
saying something and five to ten thousand people were seeing

1954
01:49:26,439 --> 01:49:29,199
you were a celebrity, you know, you had a public,

1955
01:49:29,760 --> 01:49:31,680
you know, that you were responding to, and it was

1956
01:49:31,960 --> 01:49:34,920
in ways that were probably beneath your consciousness, shaping your

1957
01:49:34,960 --> 01:49:37,560
own sense of self and the way you behaved in

1958
01:49:37,640 --> 01:49:40,359
ways you weren't even this is a very difficult thing

1959
01:49:40,399 --> 01:49:42,840
to do, is why so many celebrities go nuts, especially

1960
01:49:43,000 --> 01:49:45,680
child celebrities, you know. And today, you know, we have

1961
01:49:45,720 --> 01:49:49,520
a ton of people out there who are essentially political activists,

1962
01:49:49,600 --> 01:49:54,199
I guess, who have larger publics than you know, the

1963
01:49:54,279 --> 01:49:58,720
most important member of you know, the Communist Party of

1964
01:49:58,760 --> 01:50:02,439
America probably had nineteen fifty you know, and we're talking

1965
01:50:02,560 --> 01:50:06,239
small influencers have that kind of reach, and it's just

1966
01:50:06,279 --> 01:50:09,000
sort of the social pressure on them that comes with

1967
01:50:09,119 --> 01:50:13,199
all that. And so you know, he's always just you know,

1968
01:50:13,239 --> 01:50:18,119
it's don't get down on people when you know, when

1969
01:50:18,159 --> 01:50:19,640
you look at them and they're just sort of the

1970
01:50:19,720 --> 01:50:22,840
normy who wants to grow. He's a constitutionally conservative guy

1971
01:50:22,880 --> 01:50:24,520
who wants to take care of his family, doesn't like

1972
01:50:24,560 --> 01:50:27,640
crime and all that, but that he won't go as

1973
01:50:27,720 --> 01:50:30,239
far as X, Y or Z, like whatever. You Your

1974
01:50:30,720 --> 01:50:33,640
hang up is because you don't want everybody doing that.

1975
01:50:34,159 --> 01:50:36,439
You know, you want to build enough trust with people

1976
01:50:36,520 --> 01:50:38,479
that they'll give you the keys to power and say,

1977
01:50:38,520 --> 01:50:40,279
go do what needs to be done on our behalf.

1978
01:50:40,560 --> 01:50:43,239
But you don't want like every member of the population

1979
01:50:43,479 --> 01:50:47,359
chirping in their opinions of how you're doing like every

1980
01:50:47,399 --> 01:50:51,960
single day, you know. And you know, I would love

1981
01:50:52,680 --> 01:50:56,359
for somebody to get out there and you know, create

1982
01:50:56,439 --> 01:50:58,520
a country that I would never have to think about

1983
01:50:58,560 --> 01:51:02,359
politics again, I think, and I think honestly, like you know,

1984
01:51:02,439 --> 01:51:05,479
people have all these theories about why representative or democratic

1985
01:51:05,560 --> 01:51:10,399
systems eventually die out and turn to authoritarianism, and a

1986
01:51:10,439 --> 01:51:13,720
big part of it I totally believe this. I don't

1987
01:51:13,760 --> 01:51:15,319
know if I can support it historically, I have to

1988
01:51:15,439 --> 01:51:19,520
really research it, but I intuitively, I just believe it

1989
01:51:19,880 --> 01:51:22,239
is that people just get tired of it. People get

1990
01:51:22,319 --> 01:51:24,399
tired of representative politics. So like I don't want to

1991
01:51:24,479 --> 01:51:27,920
argue about this shit anymore. Fine, somebody, you make the decision,

1992
01:51:28,399 --> 01:51:30,039
and then I don't have to fight with my neighbor

1993
01:51:30,079 --> 01:51:33,520
about it anymore. That would people eventually get to a point.

1994
01:51:33,640 --> 01:51:37,079
Rome got to this point, you know, where a country

1995
01:51:37,119 --> 01:51:40,399
that prided itself on, you know, the motto of no kings,

1996
01:51:42,199 --> 01:51:46,680
they welcomed a caesar, you know, and they saw the

1997
01:51:47,319 --> 01:51:51,439
they saw the development of their society in the years

1998
01:51:51,520 --> 01:51:56,960
immediately after the rise of the Empire is a vast

1999
01:51:57,119 --> 01:51:59,800
improvement on the chaos and civil war that they didn't

2000
01:52:00,039 --> 01:52:01,399
eriencing throw over one hundred.

2001
01:52:01,199 --> 01:52:01,600
Speaker 3: Years, you know.

2002
01:52:02,039 --> 01:52:04,880
Speaker 4: And that's the kind of thing that what you have

2003
01:52:05,000 --> 01:52:08,159
to look at Russia with Putin going from the nineties

2004
01:52:08,199 --> 01:52:12,239
to Putin, Germany going from Viimar to the National Socialists.

2005
01:52:12,279 --> 01:52:14,199
You know, at a certain point, people are like, I

2006
01:52:14,199 --> 01:52:16,039
don't want to argue with my neighbors about this, snymore.

2007
01:52:16,039 --> 01:52:18,640
I don't want my neighbors to hate me because I

2008
01:52:18,880 --> 01:52:20,520
think this, and they I don't want to deal with

2009
01:52:20,560 --> 01:52:22,760
any of them. So take these questions out of our hands,

2010
01:52:23,159 --> 01:52:25,600
you know, I.

2011
01:52:25,640 --> 01:52:27,479
Speaker 1: Think we're end it right there. Let me read some

2012
01:52:28,119 --> 01:52:32,399
super chatsy if what are these okay? So Daniel Robinson

2013
01:52:32,439 --> 01:52:36,119
says Darryl I believe in agrarian revival rewilding movement is

2014
01:52:36,199 --> 01:52:39,439
the first step tree store America. All this hopium for

2015
01:52:39,600 --> 01:52:44,760
re industrialization won't benefit us. Local food production equals localized capital.

2016
01:52:45,960 --> 01:52:47,359
I know you do some growing now.

2017
01:52:48,239 --> 01:52:52,199
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm a small farmer up here to the extent

2018
01:52:52,279 --> 01:52:57,279
that I can manage it. Yeah, look, I'm all for that.

2019
01:52:57,680 --> 01:53:05,159
I think that the difficulty with it is, you know,

2020
01:53:05,319 --> 01:53:09,720
you have to be able to support yourself, not just yourself,

2021
01:53:09,800 --> 01:53:13,520
but if you're gonna talk about a political community, you

2022
01:53:13,600 --> 01:53:16,960
know has to be able to support itself resource wise.

2023
01:53:17,239 --> 01:53:24,039
And the agricultural economy today, man, it is it is.

2024
01:53:24,239 --> 01:53:27,760
It is is really hard to make a living in

2025
01:53:27,840 --> 01:53:31,720
that sector unless you're a large like large scale industrial

2026
01:53:31,800 --> 01:53:34,079
farmer or a specialist of some kind. It's just it's

2027
01:53:34,239 --> 01:53:38,279
really hard. I'm all for people should be doing that.

2028
01:53:38,399 --> 01:53:41,039
Like Thomas said, cities are dying. You know, people can

2029
01:53:41,159 --> 01:53:44,000
generate income in ways that are allowed them to be

2030
01:53:44,079 --> 01:53:47,920
more geographically distributed. And I anybody wants to go out

2031
01:53:47,960 --> 01:53:50,079
there and buy ten acres and start growing their own

2032
01:53:50,119 --> 01:53:52,039
food and have a cow and a pick, one hundred

2033
01:53:52,039 --> 01:53:55,000
percent that's awesome, and I hope more and more and

2034
01:53:55,079 --> 01:53:59,920
more people do it. Whether that could be the basis

2035
01:54:00,199 --> 01:54:03,800
of a political community at least in any kind of

2036
01:54:03,960 --> 01:54:06,960
like near future situation, I don't know it would. I mean,

2037
01:54:07,720 --> 01:54:10,520
you know, it's tough because we see this like up

2038
01:54:10,520 --> 01:54:12,760
where I live in northern Idaho. I mean, it's on

2039
01:54:12,880 --> 01:54:15,880
one hand, it's what I love about it. It's the

2040
01:54:16,000 --> 01:54:18,640
fact that all the people who are here, including the

2041
01:54:18,680 --> 01:54:21,199
people who came from California and wherever else who are

2042
01:54:21,319 --> 01:54:24,079
up here now, you know, they came because they wanted

2043
01:54:24,079 --> 01:54:27,880
to be a part of that sort of small l

2044
01:54:28,000 --> 01:54:31,840
libertarian adjacent just leave leave us the fuck alone, you know,

2045
01:54:32,119 --> 01:54:33,880
like kind of thing. And I love that this is

2046
01:54:34,000 --> 01:54:36,359
like sort of the most American thought you can have

2047
01:54:36,479 --> 01:54:39,760
in your head, being a country that that sort of

2048
01:54:39,960 --> 01:54:43,399
developed its identity on the frontier, you know, where people

2049
01:54:43,920 --> 01:54:46,199
you know, this is kind of coming back to bite

2050
01:54:46,279 --> 01:54:50,399
us now, where people, you know, we've developed this tendency

2051
01:54:50,439 --> 01:54:52,479
in the United States, and if you don't like what's

2052
01:54:52,560 --> 01:54:55,680
going on in the place that you're living, you don't

2053
01:54:56,119 --> 01:54:58,800
put your you know, your stakes down on the ground

2054
01:54:58,960 --> 01:55:00,920
and say, well, I'm gonna f for this place. You

2055
01:55:01,000 --> 01:55:03,560
say well, I'm gonna move to a place where, you know,

2056
01:55:03,880 --> 01:55:05,359
I don't have to feel this way. And that's what

2057
01:55:05,439 --> 01:55:07,279
people did. You didn't fit in in New York, you

2058
01:55:07,359 --> 01:55:10,199
moved to Chicago. Didn't fit in Chicago. You kept on

2059
01:55:10,279 --> 01:55:12,319
head and west. All the crazy people piled up on

2060
01:55:12,359 --> 01:55:15,760
the West coast when they hit the ocean. But there's

2061
01:55:15,880 --> 01:55:17,520
very much this sort of like as long as it's

2062
01:55:17,600 --> 01:55:20,000
not in my direct backyard, you know, thing to do.

2063
01:55:20,159 --> 01:55:21,640
So when you get to a place like where I am,

2064
01:55:21,760 --> 01:55:25,039
you think it like conservative heaven northern Idaho, and it

2065
01:55:25,239 --> 01:55:26,920
is and what's like one of the reddest parts of

2066
01:55:26,960 --> 01:55:31,039
the country, but just completely disorganized politically for the most part,

2067
01:55:31,119 --> 01:55:34,319
because people are geographically distributed and they have this mentality

2068
01:55:34,399 --> 01:55:36,720
of like, I'm here so that I don't have to

2069
01:55:36,800 --> 01:55:39,720
do all that, you know, and so that I like

2070
01:55:39,840 --> 01:55:41,520
the fact that my neighbors are far away and that

2071
01:55:41,600 --> 01:55:44,439
I don't see, you know, just crowds of people all

2072
01:55:44,520 --> 01:55:47,920
the time, and so that you know, it's hard. Yeah,

2073
01:55:48,000 --> 01:55:50,760
I think if I hope that guy's right, I'll put

2074
01:55:50,760 --> 01:55:52,000
it that way. I hope he's right. I would love

2075
01:55:52,079 --> 01:55:52,399
to see that.

2076
01:55:54,520 --> 01:55:56,319
Speaker 2: Have you done as Serius on the Pinkertons.

2077
01:55:57,880 --> 01:55:59,880
Speaker 4: No, they've just come up a few times. Like in

2078
01:56:00,079 --> 01:56:03,319
the Labor series. I probably should do at least a

2079
01:56:03,359 --> 01:56:06,920
full episode on it, though. I mean, it's just, you know,

2080
01:56:06,960 --> 01:56:11,159
it's one of those organizations that, like like most things

2081
01:56:11,239 --> 01:56:14,479
that are mythologized in the direction of good or evil,

2082
01:56:14,560 --> 01:56:18,039
are much more complicated than than the history that comes

2083
01:56:18,119 --> 01:56:21,279
down to us from sort of you know, motivated sources.

2084
01:56:22,000 --> 01:56:25,800
But on the on balance, I think, you know, if

2085
01:56:25,840 --> 01:56:28,000
you're an American, you should spit on the ground every

2086
01:56:28,039 --> 01:56:30,439
time you hear the word Pinkerton. I mean, it's just,

2087
01:56:30,840 --> 01:56:34,079
you know, these these are these are people who were hired,

2088
01:56:34,159 --> 01:56:36,720
whatever the complications of it, these were people who were

2089
01:56:36,800 --> 01:56:43,479
hired to prevent ordinary workers from uh, you know, from

2090
01:56:43,680 --> 01:56:46,760
from striking and from fighting to give us the world

2091
01:56:46,800 --> 01:56:48,760
that we take for granted today, you know, or at

2092
01:56:48,840 --> 01:56:51,199
least you know, it's obviously changed a lot in the

2093
01:56:51,279 --> 01:56:54,239
last few decades. But you know, people out there who

2094
01:56:54,319 --> 01:56:57,399
think that we would have been and that that that

2095
01:56:57,560 --> 01:57:00,880
just economic changes and sort of the the broad forces

2096
01:57:00,920 --> 01:57:03,279
of history would have you know, given us the eight

2097
01:57:03,319 --> 01:57:05,359
hour work day and the forty hour work week, and

2098
01:57:06,359 --> 01:57:09,359
you know, work safety regulations and things or at least,

2099
01:57:09,520 --> 01:57:11,680
you know, requiring all of these kind of things, that

2100
01:57:11,760 --> 01:57:14,119
those things would have come about on their own are delusional.

2101
01:57:14,560 --> 01:57:17,119
We would all still be working fourteen hours a day

2102
01:57:17,199 --> 01:57:20,000
and living in a hovel with seven other people if

2103
01:57:20,039 --> 01:57:22,800
those people didn't put their asses on the line and

2104
01:57:23,439 --> 01:57:26,800
get beat down and threatened and killed by Pinkertons for

2105
01:57:27,439 --> 01:57:30,399
decades before, you know, for that stuff finally came to

2106
01:57:30,479 --> 01:57:33,119
a stop. And so h no, I haven't done one yet.

2107
01:57:33,239 --> 01:57:37,880
I hate Pinkertons. I hate all of and again, like

2108
01:57:38,000 --> 01:57:40,720
I after I did my Battle of Blair Mountain episode,

2109
01:57:40,960 --> 01:57:43,199
it wasn't Pinkertons down there, it was a different organization.

2110
01:57:43,399 --> 01:57:50,319
But I got a I got an email from somebody

2111
01:57:50,359 --> 01:57:53,399
who lives down there who's like grandfather or great grandfather

2112
01:57:54,199 --> 01:57:57,840
was one of those vine yards and he was the people.

2113
01:57:57,920 --> 01:57:59,920
He was one of the guys holding the rifle fighting

2114
01:58:00,119 --> 01:58:03,159
the miners in the Battle of Blair Mountain. And he

2115
01:58:03,800 --> 01:58:07,000
sent me a recording that his dad, his grandfather rather

2116
01:58:07,119 --> 01:58:10,479
made like shortly before he died, talking about that whole incident,

2117
01:58:11,119 --> 01:58:13,279
and it was compelling, man, Like, you know, he had

2118
01:58:13,319 --> 01:58:16,359
a story to tell too. You know, the miners obviously

2119
01:58:16,399 --> 01:58:19,880
a bunch of rowdy, crazy ass men, like half immigrant

2120
01:58:20,199 --> 01:58:23,119
miners out there and a lot of them. You know,

2121
01:58:23,319 --> 01:58:25,840
they weren't easy to handle, you know, And you had

2122
01:58:25,880 --> 01:58:28,000
a bunch of crazy assholes out there, and you needed

2123
01:58:28,039 --> 01:58:30,199
a security force, and this is who they had because

2124
01:58:30,600 --> 01:58:32,760
West Virginia wasn't going to provide, and so there are

2125
01:58:32,880 --> 01:58:35,560
all these complications, but on balance, you know, they were

2126
01:58:35,600 --> 01:58:38,159
the ones who were who were holding a gun and

2127
01:58:38,239 --> 01:58:41,479
standing in the way of ordinary American people sort of

2128
01:58:42,199 --> 01:58:44,880
being able to have a life that they could, you know,

2129
01:58:45,039 --> 01:58:46,760
be glad to pass on to their children.

2130
01:58:49,159 --> 01:58:53,920
Speaker 2: Let me see what's next. Got a couple more ski

2131
01:58:54,039 --> 01:58:57,800
bum says got here late. I'm excited for the stream.

2132
01:58:57,800 --> 01:59:02,319
Speaker 1: Happy Sunday everyone, Palette and yy Z with a big

2133
01:59:02,399 --> 01:59:04,600
super chat. Good guy here, it's gonna be on the

2134
01:59:04,640 --> 01:59:08,239
show soon. You are so right, Darryl, Who is we?

2135
01:59:08,399 --> 01:59:10,399
I'm trying to get my peers to ask the question,

2136
01:59:10,920 --> 01:59:13,399
whose house is this? We see the party getting out

2137
01:59:13,439 --> 01:59:16,279
of control, but all our grievances are based on this

2138
01:59:16,479 --> 01:59:20,880
being our house, he says, Time to start from scratch.

2139
01:59:23,439 --> 01:59:25,479
Speaker 4: A camera that is supposed to track my face is

2140
01:59:25,520 --> 01:59:26,560
losing its mind right now.

2141
01:59:27,279 --> 01:59:28,840
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I had one of those. I got rid

2142
01:59:28,880 --> 01:59:29,000
of it.

2143
01:59:31,119 --> 01:59:33,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't move around enough to probably need one.

2144
01:59:33,640 --> 01:59:34,720
What are you looking at my hand for?

2145
01:59:34,880 --> 01:59:35,439
Speaker 3: What is going on?

2146
01:59:35,960 --> 01:59:36,079
Speaker 2: Here?

2147
01:59:36,119 --> 01:59:44,359
Speaker 4: Hold on, I'm still here. Just turn my camera back

2148
01:59:44,479 --> 01:59:52,760
on somehow however that works. Whe there we go? You here, Yeah,

2149
01:59:52,800 --> 01:59:54,479
I'm here. I just can't figure o how to turn

2150
01:59:54,520 --> 01:59:55,159
my camera back.

2151
01:59:57,119 --> 01:59:59,399
Speaker 1: Should be a button down at the bottom that looks

2152
01:59:59,479 --> 02:00:01,359
like a next Yeah, there you go, got it?

2153
02:00:03,319 --> 02:00:03,640
Speaker 3: All right?

2154
02:00:04,359 --> 02:00:04,680
Speaker 4: All right?

2155
02:00:06,319 --> 02:00:06,520
Speaker 2: Yeah?

2156
02:00:06,640 --> 02:00:10,319
Speaker 1: So yeah, Paladin's saying it's time to start from scratch.

2157
02:00:10,439 --> 02:00:12,399
Speaker 2: And you know, I mean.

2158
02:00:14,600 --> 02:00:18,279
Speaker 1: Literally, you're gonna have so much disunity, then I guess

2159
02:00:18,359 --> 02:00:23,199
you have to. I mean, I mean, if you're if

2160
02:00:24,479 --> 02:00:28,359
if the fight We'll put it this way, if the

2161
02:00:28,439 --> 02:00:33,239
fight is directed at the people who are supposed to

2162
02:00:33,319 --> 02:00:36,880
be on your side and not the enemy at this point,

2163
02:00:37,359 --> 02:00:39,640
then you have a problem. And that's why, you know,

2164
02:00:39,960 --> 02:00:42,840
I have an I'm associated with an organization who we

2165
02:00:42,960 --> 02:00:43,760
know who the enemy is.

2166
02:00:43,840 --> 02:00:46,720
Speaker 2: We just focus on that. We focus on ourselves. We

2167
02:00:46,800 --> 02:00:50,479
focus doing, uh, you know, doing our thing.

2168
02:00:51,239 --> 02:00:54,920
Speaker 1: And yeah, we're not gonna you know, we're not gonna

2169
02:00:54,920 --> 02:00:59,039
worry about what other all this infighting about. Yeah, you know,

2170
02:01:00,039 --> 02:01:03,399
I think everyone except the enemy, I mean, look at

2171
02:01:03,920 --> 02:01:12,199
look at if you look at a couple groups that

2172
02:01:12,520 --> 02:01:18,319
fought against an infiltrated enemy or their perceived enemy, they

2173
02:01:18,359 --> 02:01:22,319
always waited until they want to figure out who who

2174
02:01:22,840 --> 02:01:24,760
who They couldn't live with it was on their side.

2175
02:01:25,880 --> 02:01:28,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, and don't direct all your artillery, you know, at

2176
02:01:28,880 --> 02:01:32,159
the at the other side's pawns either. I mean, it's

2177
02:01:32,600 --> 02:01:35,159
that that's a you know, it's it's a natural thing

2178
02:01:35,239 --> 02:01:36,920
to do in some ways. You know. You think about

2179
02:01:36,960 --> 02:01:40,279
immigration as an obvious example, where you know, these are

2180
02:01:40,279 --> 02:01:42,920
the people who are actually coming in and transforming your

2181
02:01:42,960 --> 02:01:46,119
neighborhood and stuff. It's easy to develop, you know, negative

2182
02:01:46,159 --> 02:01:49,439
feelings toward the people you're seeing on a day to

2183
02:01:49,520 --> 02:01:52,920
day basis. Do that, but these are these are pawns

2184
02:01:52,920 --> 02:01:55,039
in the enemy's hands. You know, reserve your hatred for

2185
02:01:55,079 --> 02:01:57,359
the people who are actually inflicting this on you, you know.

2186
02:01:58,039 --> 02:02:04,079
And yeah, I mean, I think, uh want to you know,

2187
02:02:04,399 --> 02:02:06,399
think about basic difficult Like I told this too. I

2188
02:02:06,680 --> 02:02:10,279
want to say I was maybe talking to Scott Greer

2189
02:02:10,319 --> 02:02:13,880
about this one time in a back and forth sort

2190
02:02:13,880 --> 02:02:17,800
of dialogue article that we did with some others. He

2191
02:02:17,960 --> 02:02:21,680
was pushing sort of this the strict kind of hard

2192
02:02:21,760 --> 02:02:26,439
line white nationalist line, you know, and it's like, now, look, man,

2193
02:02:26,479 --> 02:02:30,720
I could tell you, I agree homogeneous society is preferable

2194
02:02:30,800 --> 02:02:33,600
to live in than a non homogeneous one. I can

2195
02:02:33,680 --> 02:02:36,079
tell you that if you could snap your fingers and

2196
02:02:36,159 --> 02:02:38,399
you got your way, that this country would probably be

2197
02:02:38,479 --> 02:02:40,880
better to live in a million different Fine, all that

2198
02:02:41,119 --> 02:02:44,000
is great, but this is the real world that we

2199
02:02:44,119 --> 02:02:46,439
actually live in. And the idea that you're going to

2200
02:02:46,560 --> 02:02:52,079
get some Christian guy to take your side, if that

2201
02:02:52,399 --> 02:02:57,239
means having to having to break away from like in

2202
02:02:57,359 --> 02:03:02,000
terms of his affinity and identity with the dusky skin

2203
02:03:02,119 --> 02:03:04,479
guy like sitting in the next pew at church, that's

2204
02:03:04,600 --> 02:03:07,079
just not going to happen. It's just not going to happen.

2205
02:03:07,399 --> 02:03:10,560
And if it does happen, then you've broken kind of

2206
02:03:10,880 --> 02:03:12,880
a lot of what the American church is and like,

2207
02:03:12,960 --> 02:03:15,520
what's really the point of what you're doing anyway? You know? Now,

2208
02:03:15,560 --> 02:03:17,680
does that mean that you have to go the full

2209
02:03:17,800 --> 02:03:21,399
sort of you know, like the the the extreme end

2210
02:03:21,479 --> 02:03:24,079
of the Catholic refugee route, you know, where they just

2211
02:03:24,159 --> 02:03:26,720
look around the world and you know, we're all one

2212
02:03:26,800 --> 02:03:28,840
in Christ and so there's no such thing as like

2213
02:03:29,520 --> 02:03:33,119
you know, if we can, you know, bring in people

2214
02:03:33,199 --> 02:03:36,319
from Catholic countries, great, that's a more Catholic country. You

2215
02:03:36,359 --> 02:03:38,439
don't have to go that full you know route. There's

2216
02:03:38,520 --> 02:03:40,920
room infor nations, there's room for peoples, all these kind

2217
02:03:40,960 --> 02:03:44,119
of things. But you have to really navigate a world

2218
02:03:44,199 --> 02:03:48,680
where you know, people are You have to understand that,

2219
02:03:48,800 --> 02:03:55,119
like there's nothing, there's nothing more right wing than taking

2220
02:03:55,199 --> 02:04:01,359
the side of your neighbor over some abstract, you know, abstraction,

2221
02:04:01,479 --> 02:04:05,000
whether it's the federal government or it's some amorphous sort

2222
02:04:05,039 --> 02:04:08,359
of ideological movement or whatever. The right wing thing to

2223
02:04:08,439 --> 02:04:10,960
do is to stand with your neighbor against that if

2224
02:04:11,000 --> 02:04:13,399
it's coming after And that doesn't mean if your neighbors

2225
02:04:13,439 --> 02:04:15,920
an illegal immigrant, you got to go throw your body

2226
02:04:16,000 --> 02:04:17,920
in front of the police cars so they can't come

2227
02:04:17,960 --> 02:04:20,880
get them or something. It just means that having that

2228
02:04:21,279 --> 02:04:24,960
having the impulse to have your first loyalty to your family,

2229
02:04:25,000 --> 02:04:27,640
and then your friends and neighbors and outward to your community,

2230
02:04:27,720 --> 02:04:31,159
and then later on the larger formations that we have,

2231
02:04:32,359 --> 02:04:34,800
whether they be states or regions or the or the nation,

2232
02:04:36,000 --> 02:04:41,039
but also recognizing that those things they continue to deserve

2233
02:04:41,119 --> 02:04:44,159
your loyalty to the extent that they nourish and protect

2234
02:04:44,840 --> 02:04:47,039
those things that are closer to home, you know. And

2235
02:04:48,239 --> 02:04:49,680
and so you have to deal with the fact that,

2236
02:04:49,840 --> 02:04:56,159
like you know, that that people who are constitutionally conservative

2237
02:04:56,479 --> 02:04:58,800
are gonna have are just they're going to have the

2238
02:04:58,960 --> 02:05:04,479
natural h inclination to to have positive feelings about people

2239
02:05:04,520 --> 02:05:07,880
who are similar to them in that sense, you know,

2240
02:05:08,159 --> 02:05:10,800
and their and and they're not going to key onto

2241
02:05:10,840 --> 02:05:15,720
abstractions like you know, historical not the abstraction is the

2242
02:05:15,760 --> 02:05:18,359
wrong word, but something is just not tangible to them,

2243
02:05:19,079 --> 02:05:22,479
whether it's like historical heritage or skin color or any

2244
02:05:22,520 --> 02:05:23,560
of these other kind of things.

2245
02:05:23,600 --> 02:05:23,800
Speaker 3: You know.

2246
02:05:24,479 --> 02:05:26,760
Speaker 4: What they are going to know is that my son

2247
02:05:26,880 --> 02:05:29,479
plays t ball with his son, and I see him

2248
02:05:29,479 --> 02:05:31,439
out there, and we're both on the same side, yelling

2249
02:05:31,479 --> 02:05:33,520
at the same umpire when he makes a stupid call

2250
02:05:33,680 --> 02:05:35,199
like that's and he goes to the church I go

2251
02:05:35,319 --> 02:05:38,000
to once. That's what people know, and a conservative is

2252
02:05:38,039 --> 02:05:40,960
gonna have affinity for that guy and his family, you know.

2253
02:05:41,520 --> 02:05:44,159
And you have to develop a movement that can function

2254
02:05:44,279 --> 02:05:46,319
in that world. If you end up going like Ezra

2255
02:05:46,399 --> 02:05:48,800
and Nehemiah and the Bible after the Jews got sent

2256
02:05:48,920 --> 02:05:52,319
back to Jerusalem by the Persians, and they find all

2257
02:05:52,439 --> 02:05:55,319
of these other people, you know, who were Jews who

2258
02:05:55,439 --> 02:05:57,840
stayed behind, because you know, it's not as as maybe

2259
02:05:57,880 --> 02:06:00,439
four thousand people they got shipped off to Babylon. It's

2260
02:06:00,520 --> 02:06:03,840
the leadership class. The vast majority of the people stayed behind.

2261
02:06:04,199 --> 02:06:05,960
And they came back and they found that, you know,

2262
02:06:06,039 --> 02:06:09,159
the people had intermarried with their neighbors and taken on

2263
02:06:09,279 --> 02:06:12,119
some of their customs, and they made everybody divorce their wives,

2264
02:06:12,199 --> 02:06:15,600
disown their children, all these kind of things. Like if

2265
02:06:15,680 --> 02:06:17,720
you want to be like that, I mean, then you're

2266
02:06:17,800 --> 02:06:23,279
just you know, you're you're living in You're just living

2267
02:06:23,319 --> 02:06:25,640
in a fantasy land. You know, something like that is

2268
02:06:25,680 --> 02:06:28,159
not going to happen short of Balkanization of the country.

2269
02:06:28,239 --> 02:06:30,760
And if that's the goal, that's I can at least

2270
02:06:30,800 --> 02:06:33,359
respect that you know, somebody has, that is, if they

2271
02:06:33,399 --> 02:06:37,279
think that's the only path forward. But even then you

2272
02:06:37,399 --> 02:06:39,159
still have to be able to build a basis for

2273
02:06:39,239 --> 02:06:43,159
a community that uh that that will be loyal to

2274
02:06:43,319 --> 02:06:47,239
each other, like when when rubber really hits the road,

2275
02:06:47,359 --> 02:06:50,720
you know, I mean this is something again, like you know,

2276
02:06:50,760 --> 02:06:53,960
you think about, like why all these communist movements like

2277
02:06:54,039 --> 02:06:55,840
in the first half of the twentieth century, were strove

2278
02:06:56,000 --> 02:06:58,640
so strong, these people go to prison for it rather

2279
02:06:58,720 --> 02:07:00,560
than give up their friends, they would go to prison,

2280
02:07:00,960 --> 02:07:04,000
you know. And you look around at the right today

2281
02:07:04,000 --> 02:07:07,399
and you say, man, like, would you trust almost any

2282
02:07:07,479 --> 02:07:13,119
of these public facing movements or outfits to do that? No,

2283
02:07:13,680 --> 02:07:17,479
I don't think anybody would. But when you talk about

2284
02:07:17,520 --> 02:07:20,560
things like what you're doing, what a lot of us

2285
02:07:20,600 --> 02:07:24,159
are doing, where it's not public facing, it's not some

2286
02:07:25,000 --> 02:07:27,800
you know, thing to draw in more followers or something

2287
02:07:27,920 --> 02:07:31,359
like that. It's just face to face, person to person

2288
02:07:31,479 --> 02:07:35,800
community building, organic community building, building that social capital. Then

2289
02:07:35,920 --> 02:07:39,560
you start to then you start to develop bonds that

2290
02:07:39,640 --> 02:07:42,640
can withstand that kind of pressure because they don't exist

2291
02:07:42,720 --> 02:07:44,560
now at least it's certainly not on any kind of

2292
02:07:44,600 --> 02:07:45,399
a scale. You know.

2293
02:07:47,520 --> 02:07:49,199
Speaker 1: Well, the way I look at it is is that

2294
02:07:49,760 --> 02:07:52,840
Balkanization is and I mean I catch shit for this

2295
02:07:52,960 --> 02:07:53,399
all the time.

2296
02:07:53,439 --> 02:07:54,199
Speaker 2: I really don't care.

2297
02:07:54,479 --> 02:07:57,680
Speaker 1: Balkanization is really the only logical thing that's going to happen,

2298
02:07:57,760 --> 02:08:05,359
whether it's dejare or de facto, because you, I can't

2299
02:08:05,359 --> 02:08:07,279
believe people want to do this from the top down.

2300
02:08:08,520 --> 02:08:13,600
You know, Oh, we need mass. We need mass deportations

2301
02:08:13,640 --> 02:08:16,479
from the top down. I could see if they were

2302
02:08:16,560 --> 02:08:21,439
working with local police, county sheriffs state. No, they want

2303
02:08:21,479 --> 02:08:23,560
to do it from top down. That shit doesn't work.

2304
02:08:24,319 --> 02:08:26,960
I mean, it's what San Francis talked about, the other

2305
02:08:27,000 --> 02:08:28,279
revolution of mass and scale.

2306
02:08:28,800 --> 02:08:33,199
Speaker 2: You can't do things. You can't do things in mass

2307
02:08:33,279 --> 02:08:33,800
and scale.

2308
02:08:34,279 --> 02:08:37,760
Speaker 1: It has to be done in a smaller way, or

2309
02:08:38,960 --> 02:08:41,239
it's just going to break up, you know, and then

2310
02:08:41,239 --> 02:08:43,399
you have people, Oh, what about China. China is just

2311
02:08:43,479 --> 02:08:47,279
going to come in and anything like that. China's on

2312
02:08:47,399 --> 02:08:50,680
our northern border right now. I mean it's like, I mean,

2313
02:08:51,600 --> 02:08:56,039
they literally hold up in Canada. I mean, I'm sorry,

2314
02:08:56,159 --> 02:08:59,279
I just don't believe any of this. Yeah, sure, I

2315
02:08:59,359 --> 02:09:05,039
would love to see deportations of people who don't don't

2316
02:09:05,079 --> 02:09:07,600
belong here, but it's not going to happen.

2317
02:09:07,920 --> 02:09:08,479
Speaker 2: I'm sorry.

2318
02:09:08,760 --> 02:09:12,000
Speaker 4: You know, it's like, even if it does happen, like

2319
02:09:12,119 --> 02:09:14,760
you just have to lose one election. Like look what

2320
02:09:14,880 --> 02:09:19,199
happened under Biden. You know, they made up for anything

2321
02:09:19,279 --> 02:09:22,199
Trump thought he was going to do in twenty sixteen

2322
02:09:22,239 --> 02:09:24,840
to twenty twenty. Biden made up for that threefold. You know,

2323
02:09:24,920 --> 02:09:29,279
he was importing the population of Seattle into this country

2324
02:09:29,960 --> 02:09:32,960
every three months for four years, you know, and so

2325
02:09:33,119 --> 02:09:35,439
you have to you're living in a world and you

2326
02:09:35,520 --> 02:09:37,840
have a plan that requires you to never lose another

2327
02:09:37,960 --> 02:09:41,439
election or to bring people, the population to a point

2328
02:09:41,479 --> 02:09:44,800
where you have such a super majority of opinion on

2329
02:09:44,920 --> 02:09:49,079
this that you know, it's just it doesn't matter who

2330
02:09:49,079 --> 02:09:51,720
wins the election. You know that everybody's going to do it.

2331
02:09:51,920 --> 02:09:55,319
That's just it's just not realistic, you know. And it's

2332
02:09:55,439 --> 02:10:00,359
questionable to me whether it's necessarily even desirable, you know,

2333
02:10:00,479 --> 02:10:02,960
because there's certain things that we you know, I know

2334
02:10:03,039 --> 02:10:05,119
this will be an unpopular probably thing for me to say,

2335
02:10:05,199 --> 02:10:05,520
but like.

2336
02:10:06,720 --> 02:10:10,279
Speaker 1: Scott, if you're if you're reading the comments, everybody already

2337
02:10:10,319 --> 02:10:12,760
thinks you're a commie or something. Yeah, these are people

2338
02:10:12,800 --> 02:10:15,760
who these are people who cannot I mean, they think

2339
02:10:16,199 --> 02:10:17,680
that only the perfect.

2340
02:10:17,880 --> 02:10:19,840
Speaker 2: You're never going to get the fucking perfect.

2341
02:10:19,960 --> 02:10:23,239
Speaker 4: I mean, I mean, look, I'm the first one. I'm

2342
02:10:23,279 --> 02:10:25,960
the first one to admit and to tell people that

2343
02:10:27,279 --> 02:10:29,880
there's a reason dissident politics is a young man's game.

2344
02:10:30,079 --> 02:10:32,119
You know. I have gone kind of soft as I've

2345
02:10:32,119 --> 02:10:34,279
gotten older. You know, I don't have the stomach for

2346
02:10:34,880 --> 02:10:36,119
a lot of the things I would have when I

2347
02:10:36,239 --> 02:10:37,840
was in my twenties. You know, I don't like to

2348
02:10:37,920 --> 02:10:40,840
see people suffer. I don't like especially you know, I

2349
02:10:41,479 --> 02:10:43,439
really come to a place where I look at I'm

2350
02:10:43,479 --> 02:10:45,920
not talking about your MS thirteen people or something, but

2351
02:10:46,319 --> 02:10:50,760
you know, when I was working in Ventura County for

2352
02:10:50,880 --> 02:10:53,279
the Department of Defense, I would drive you know, it's

2353
02:10:53,319 --> 02:10:56,159
all agriculture there, strawberry fields, salary fields, all that, and

2354
02:10:56,199 --> 02:11:00,239
you huge community of Latinos in a lot of them

2355
02:11:00,279 --> 02:11:03,119
are illegal immigrants, and you drive by and it's like,

2356
02:11:03,600 --> 02:11:06,079
you know, you drive by this trailer park that houses

2357
02:11:06,199 --> 02:11:08,279
just tons of illegal immigrants, and you see the kids

2358
02:11:08,319 --> 02:11:10,479
piled up getting the school bus, and it's like a

2359
02:11:10,560 --> 02:11:13,960
Wednesday of a normal part of the year. It's not

2360
02:11:14,039 --> 02:11:15,840
the first day of school or anything like that. And

2361
02:11:15,960 --> 02:11:18,880
all there's if there were fifty kids on the in

2362
02:11:19,279 --> 02:11:22,600
line to get on the bus, there were forty parents

2363
02:11:22,640 --> 02:11:25,239
who were all there waving at them as they left,

2364
02:11:25,319 --> 02:11:27,560
you know, and like fixing, you know, smudging their faces,

2365
02:11:27,600 --> 02:11:30,000
and they're getting the smudge off their faces, and their

2366
02:11:30,079 --> 02:11:32,800
dads were over in the field at six am when

2367
02:11:32,800 --> 02:11:34,880
I got there, already fully at work, and when I

2368
02:11:35,000 --> 02:11:37,920
drove home, his ass would be still bust you know,

2369
02:11:38,039 --> 02:11:41,960
bent over picking strawberries out there. It's like you can

2370
02:11:42,039 --> 02:11:44,279
look at them and say, like, I don't we have

2371
02:11:44,359 --> 02:11:46,279
to get rid of those people. We have to just

2372
02:11:46,760 --> 02:11:50,159
in a macro sense, like we can't keep going as

2373
02:11:50,159 --> 02:11:53,279
a country like this, but like not and still not

2374
02:11:53,439 --> 02:11:55,720
look at that person as an enemy, you know. And

2375
02:11:56,000 --> 02:11:58,399
I really think that the reason people often do that,

2376
02:11:59,279 --> 02:12:02,640
maybe because I did this in myself even sometimes, is that,

2377
02:12:03,439 --> 02:12:06,600
you know, we're Christian people. We're generally good hearted people,

2378
02:12:07,199 --> 02:12:10,359
and for you to get up the sort of energy

2379
02:12:10,479 --> 02:12:12,720
to be able to see through the difficult things that

2380
02:12:12,840 --> 02:12:15,119
you think need to happen, you almost have to get

2381
02:12:15,199 --> 02:12:18,159
yourself into an emotional whip yourself up into an emotional

2382
02:12:18,239 --> 02:12:20,079
state that allows you to do it like these people

2383
02:12:20,079 --> 02:12:23,079
are your enemy, instead of doing it in a dispassionate way,

2384
02:12:23,359 --> 02:12:25,520
you know, and just saying this has to be done

2385
02:12:25,640 --> 02:12:28,239
and not letting it sort of corrupt you. Because this

2386
02:12:28,319 --> 02:12:29,960
is kind of where I was going that Scott and

2387
02:12:30,039 --> 02:12:33,840
I talk about frequently on our new show Provoked Scott

2388
02:12:33,880 --> 02:12:38,000
Horton and I that you know, there's obviously, when it

2389
02:12:38,079 --> 02:12:42,680
comes to war, there's the physical destruction, the casualties, the

2390
02:12:43,920 --> 02:12:47,000
the you know PTSD of the soldiers and people involved,

2391
02:12:47,079 --> 02:12:49,720
all the financial things and social control, all those kind

2392
02:12:49,760 --> 02:12:54,600
of things that come with it. Keep that there. I'll

2393
02:12:54,640 --> 02:12:55,520
talk to that guy in a minute.

2394
02:12:55,600 --> 02:12:55,800
Speaker 2: Yeah.

2395
02:12:55,960 --> 02:12:59,159
Speaker 1: Well, this guy claims that he knew Sam Francis, and

2396
02:12:59,239 --> 02:13:03,079
Sam Francis consider you to be a trader. I don't

2397
02:13:03,800 --> 02:13:08,039
a trader to what, you know, that's really these guys

2398
02:13:08,199 --> 02:13:11,119
the yeah, I mean he's an executioner. He's this guy

2399
02:13:11,319 --> 02:13:14,119
right here is a medieval executioner waiting to swing a

2400
02:13:14,199 --> 02:13:16,640
freaking sword. They're fucking the nuns on the internet.

2401
02:13:17,279 --> 02:13:17,520
Speaker 3: Dude.

2402
02:13:17,640 --> 02:13:20,319
Speaker 4: Here's why, Like, I can't be a trader to anything

2403
02:13:20,439 --> 02:13:24,520
that you, mister Rudiger, care about, because my loyalty is

2404
02:13:24,600 --> 02:13:27,560
to my family and then to my friends, and then

2405
02:13:27,600 --> 02:13:30,119
to the family and friends of those people, and my

2406
02:13:30,520 --> 02:13:34,520
region and then outward from there. And whatever it is

2407
02:13:34,600 --> 02:13:36,439
that you're saying I'm a trader too, is so many

2408
02:13:36,520 --> 02:13:40,319
concentric circles to the outside that it really it really

2409
02:13:40,439 --> 02:13:45,079
doesn't it doesn't matter, and it's just you know, the

2410
02:13:45,279 --> 02:13:47,800
the Well, let me just address this guy directly, because

2411
02:13:49,520 --> 02:13:52,680
first of all, I've talked a lot about this issue. Okay,

2412
02:13:53,640 --> 02:13:58,000
I've read Slaughter of Cities. I've read, you know, all

2413
02:13:58,079 --> 02:14:00,720
of his books. I've read a lot on the topic,

2414
02:14:00,800 --> 02:14:01,720
because it was a big.

2415
02:14:01,640 --> 02:14:04,079
Speaker 1: Part he's saying. He's saying, he never called you a trader.

2416
02:14:04,119 --> 02:14:05,720
I'm just making stuff up so that.

2417
02:14:06,079 --> 02:14:13,359
Speaker 4: Oh, but you know, look, I one of the great

2418
02:14:13,439 --> 02:14:16,560
villains of the twentieth century century to me is New

2419
02:14:16,640 --> 02:14:19,159
York Mayor John Lindsay from the nineteen sixties, you know,

2420
02:14:19,239 --> 02:14:23,159
and this was a he's sort of the he's sort

2421
02:14:23,199 --> 02:14:26,199
of the king of the or let's say, he's just

2422
02:14:26,319 --> 02:14:30,079
the the the the poster child for the Eastern establishment,

2423
02:14:30,359 --> 02:14:33,600
Eastern wasp establishment, right that really did carry out all

2424
02:14:33,680 --> 02:14:37,479
of the stuff that that he's referring to here, use

2425
02:14:37,640 --> 02:14:41,199
essentially using the great migration of African Americans into the

2426
02:14:41,279 --> 02:14:44,000
cities to drive all of the white ethnics out of

2427
02:14:44,079 --> 02:14:47,560
the suburbs so that they could be deracinated and melded

2428
02:14:47,640 --> 02:14:50,520
into you know, the sort of drawn out of these

2429
02:14:50,560 --> 02:14:53,199
insular communities that they that they had been in and

2430
02:14:53,359 --> 02:14:58,560
be melded into just American whites basically, and and lose

2431
02:14:58,600 --> 02:15:01,399
everything that and so he's he's one hundred percent right

2432
02:15:01,479 --> 02:15:07,439
about all that I would have been telling those people, though. Look,

2433
02:15:07,840 --> 02:15:10,920
the same thing I always I always come back to

2434
02:15:11,439 --> 02:15:14,119
is you have to be ruthlessly pragmatic when it comes

2435
02:15:14,159 --> 02:15:20,560
to this stuff. And people very often mistake pragmatism for defeatism,

2436
02:15:21,319 --> 02:15:23,800
you know, And nobody ever wants to hear that you

2437
02:15:23,960 --> 02:15:26,399
have to take a step back. Nobody wants to hear

2438
02:15:27,039 --> 02:15:31,800
that the enemy has a say too, and sometimes his

2439
02:15:31,960 --> 02:15:34,279
say matters more than yours does in the moment, and

2440
02:15:34,359 --> 02:15:36,479
you have to and you have to regroup. These are

2441
02:15:36,560 --> 02:15:39,640
just realities you have to deal with, and people who

2442
02:15:39,760 --> 02:15:44,079
can't do that. The enemy loves you more than anybody

2443
02:15:44,159 --> 02:15:46,279
else because you're the perfect foil for him, because he

2444
02:15:46,439 --> 02:15:49,479
knows exactly how you're going to react to absolutely everything

2445
02:15:49,560 --> 02:15:51,840
he does, and so he can draw you out, he

2446
02:15:51,920 --> 02:15:53,680
can put you in the place that he wants you

2447
02:15:53,760 --> 02:15:55,880
to be in and just make you dance for him

2448
02:15:56,079 --> 02:15:59,039
and to drive his own agenda. And you know what

2449
02:15:59,239 --> 02:16:02,079
happened to people on the you know, the white ethnics

2450
02:16:02,439 --> 02:16:05,000
in the cities is a I mean, it's a historical

2451
02:16:05,119 --> 02:16:08,760
tragedy of epic proportions and one that has had incalculably

2452
02:16:09,880 --> 02:16:14,279
horrible effects on our society. Like ever since then. It

2453
02:16:15,279 --> 02:16:21,079
wrecked what local and national identity we had put together

2454
02:16:21,239 --> 02:16:24,079
by the nineteen forties and fifties. It threw that into

2455
02:16:24,159 --> 02:16:26,079
a blender. And we're still living in the sort of

2456
02:16:26,960 --> 02:16:29,079
you know, living on the crash site of all that.

2457
02:16:29,239 --> 02:16:32,840
And so he I get all that, But what would

2458
02:16:32,879 --> 02:16:35,239
I have told people, you know, go join your local

2459
02:16:35,360 --> 02:16:39,760
white citizens council and go out and protest in riot

2460
02:16:40,079 --> 02:16:42,959
that you think that you think that the that the

2461
02:16:43,479 --> 02:16:46,639
that the forces who were driving all this didn't lick

2462
02:16:46,760 --> 02:16:50,559
their chops every time that happened, you know, that is

2463
02:16:50,680 --> 02:16:54,120
like and and again I understand why people hear that

2464
02:16:54,319 --> 02:16:56,200
is some sort of defeatism, because then the next question

2465
02:16:56,280 --> 02:16:58,040
they ask is us, so we should just do nothing,

2466
02:16:58,319 --> 02:17:00,440
because that's all what you know, everything we could possibly

2467
02:17:00,520 --> 02:17:02,200
do is just what the enemy wants us to do.

2468
02:17:03,159 --> 02:17:05,440
And that's not the case. No, But you have to

2469
02:17:05,559 --> 02:17:08,879
have a certain amount of patience with these things, and understand,

2470
02:17:08,959 --> 02:17:12,639
you're trying to reverse historical forces that started long before

2471
02:17:12,680 --> 02:17:16,239
you were born. And this process, if it is going

2472
02:17:16,319 --> 02:17:19,000
to be seen through, is not going to be seen

2473
02:17:19,079 --> 02:17:21,760
through probably in your lifetime. You know, this is something

2474
02:17:21,799 --> 02:17:24,000
your son's going to have to pick up and carry forward.

2475
02:17:24,120 --> 02:17:28,040
And people today, you know, they don't think generationally. They

2476
02:17:29,680 --> 02:17:33,040
they don't even think past their the life stage that

2477
02:17:33,120 --> 02:17:36,719
they're currently in. Everything has to happen like in this

2478
02:17:37,360 --> 02:17:40,120
portion of their life, even you know, in order for

2479
02:17:40,200 --> 02:17:42,000
it to have any meaning for them, because they have

2480
02:17:42,079 --> 02:17:44,680
to live their lives in this world. And unless this happens,

2481
02:17:44,799 --> 02:17:47,280
I can't be happy in this world. I can't look around,

2482
02:17:47,879 --> 02:17:50,719
you know, this world and go live a happy life.

2483
02:17:50,760 --> 02:17:55,159
But guess what, man like people living on the outskirts

2484
02:17:55,239 --> 02:17:59,120
of Rome twenty years before it got sacked and the

2485
02:17:59,159 --> 02:18:01,079
whole thing came to an, and they were still finding

2486
02:18:01,120 --> 02:18:03,479
ways to be happy with the world and live happy

2487
02:18:03,600 --> 02:18:06,600
lives and not walk around pissed off and angry all

2488
02:18:06,680 --> 02:18:08,719
day that things weren't going the way that they wanted to.

2489
02:18:09,239 --> 02:18:11,239
So that and that's the worst case scenario. I don't

2490
02:18:11,239 --> 02:18:13,959
think we're in that in that kind of scenario. You know,

2491
02:18:14,079 --> 02:18:15,639
you have to you just you have to put this

2492
02:18:15,719 --> 02:18:19,479
stuff in its proper context and be willing to be

2493
02:18:19,639 --> 02:18:21,760
pragmatic when you have to. And right now, you know,

2494
02:18:21,920 --> 02:18:23,559
it's like the people who want some kind of a

2495
02:18:23,959 --> 02:18:26,520
you know, they want state collapse or revolution or whatever

2496
02:18:26,639 --> 02:18:29,920
it's like, do you really think that you're in the

2497
02:18:30,000 --> 02:18:33,280
best position to seize the reins right now if that

2498
02:18:33,399 --> 02:18:37,319
were to happen, or is it all of the people

2499
02:18:37,479 --> 02:18:39,879
you hate and who are ruling over you right now,

2500
02:18:40,000 --> 02:18:43,479
but are organized and well funded and well resourced, They're

2501
02:18:43,680 --> 02:18:45,479
going to be the ones in positions to pay the

2502
02:18:45,559 --> 02:18:47,639
guys with guns to come to your house, not the

2503
02:18:47,719 --> 02:18:49,959
other way around. Like, that's not the kind of you know,

2504
02:18:50,000 --> 02:18:52,399
you have to build this stuff up from the bottom,

2505
02:18:53,000 --> 02:18:56,360
trying to trying to skip that part so that you

2506
02:18:56,520 --> 02:18:59,840
can then take action, you know, to create the world

2507
02:19:00,000 --> 02:19:01,959
that you want. When you haven't gone through the process

2508
02:19:02,000 --> 02:19:04,840
of building the social capital at the bottom, it's fragile

2509
02:19:04,840 --> 02:19:07,120
at best. And that's if you ever got it through,

2510
02:19:07,600 --> 02:19:09,959
and you won't, you know, because the people who are

2511
02:19:10,079 --> 02:19:12,120
organized and have a stake in the current system are

2512
02:19:12,159 --> 02:19:14,120
going to fight, and they have more and they have

2513
02:19:14,239 --> 02:19:16,000
more bodies to throw at you than you have to

2514
02:19:16,040 --> 02:19:19,200
throw at them. And so it's just pragmatism, man, And

2515
02:19:19,280 --> 02:19:21,879
I get the criticism. I honestly, I don't reject the

2516
02:19:21,920 --> 02:19:26,799
criticism because because it's a fine line to walk, you know,

2517
02:19:27,280 --> 02:19:30,600
it's hard to tell people in a Christian country who

2518
02:19:30,639 --> 02:19:34,559
are basically decent people, as Americans generally are when it

2519
02:19:34,639 --> 02:19:39,840
comes to things like, you know, human suffering, that you

2520
02:19:39,920 --> 02:19:42,799
know if you're sitting in a room and you're sitting

2521
02:19:42,799 --> 02:19:45,200
at a table and across the table from you is

2522
02:19:45,799 --> 02:19:50,600
this family and then from another country and they're there

2523
02:19:50,680 --> 02:19:53,319
and they have a story to tell, you know, it's

2524
02:19:53,879 --> 02:19:56,600
the country is war torn, it's crime r whatever it is,

2525
02:19:56,680 --> 02:19:59,239
and they just want to come here, and they just

2526
02:19:59,319 --> 02:20:01,000
want their kids to be able to be safe in

2527
02:20:01,079 --> 02:20:04,159
them to be a productive member of a functional society.

2528
02:20:04,760 --> 02:20:09,600
Like there's a part in the vast majority of white

2529
02:20:09,600 --> 02:20:14,079
Americans on the right, and especially ones who still have

2530
02:20:14,879 --> 02:20:19,120
a vestigial Christian temperament to them, that like, no matter

2531
02:20:19,200 --> 02:20:21,280
what your answer is to them, you feel for those

2532
02:20:21,360 --> 02:20:23,879
people and you don't and it hurts to say no

2533
02:20:24,280 --> 02:20:26,719
in a way. And the only way you can convince

2534
02:20:26,760 --> 02:20:29,479
yourself almost to say no is that you know that

2535
02:20:29,639 --> 02:20:33,280
outside that room, behind that door is another family, and

2536
02:20:33,399 --> 02:20:36,079
a line of families stretching off over the horizon in

2537
02:20:36,120 --> 02:20:38,520
the millions and millions and millions, and at some point

2538
02:20:39,000 --> 02:20:41,399
you're going to have to say no, And so you

2539
02:20:41,520 --> 02:20:44,959
have to start now. But still sort of having to

2540
02:20:45,040 --> 02:20:47,760
overcome a certain amount of emotional resistance to that. And

2541
02:20:48,520 --> 02:20:50,639
you shouldn't shut that off in yourself. You know, that's

2542
02:20:50,639 --> 02:20:53,719
something that's a positive thing in you. It doesn't mean

2543
02:20:53,799 --> 02:20:56,319
you don't have to overcome it. You do, but don't

2544
02:20:56,360 --> 02:20:58,879
turn off that. Don't turn off that compassionate part of

2545
02:20:58,920 --> 02:21:02,680
yourself that makes it hard to see you, like you know,

2546
02:21:02,840 --> 02:21:07,719
people who are not hostile criminals themselves, like you know,

2547
02:21:07,920 --> 02:21:10,319
suffering because of a policy we have to enact again,

2548
02:21:10,399 --> 02:21:14,479
doesn't mean you don't enact it with that part of

2549
02:21:14,520 --> 02:21:17,680
yourself that feels that feels something about it, that's a

2550
02:21:17,719 --> 02:21:18,600
good part of yourself.

2551
02:21:21,000 --> 02:21:22,680
Speaker 1: I want to address what I put up on the

2552
02:21:22,719 --> 02:21:26,559
screen right here. Hairway to Steven, who I muted for

2553
02:21:26,639 --> 02:21:29,120
about ten minutes because you kept bringing up Israel and

2554
02:21:29,200 --> 02:21:33,399
we're not talking about Israel. Says this is my home though,

2555
02:21:33,440 --> 02:21:35,879
and I refuse to deny the innate notion to defend

2556
02:21:35,959 --> 02:21:42,319
my home. Great, Okay, So look, look man, I'm ideological too.

2557
02:21:42,559 --> 02:21:44,680
There are a lot of things that I'm ideological on.

2558
02:21:45,200 --> 02:21:49,079
But just understand you making that statement right there. All

2559
02:21:49,159 --> 02:21:51,360
it is is a statement. All it is is words

2560
02:21:51,399 --> 02:21:54,200
on the screen. You don't have the power to stop

2561
02:21:54,319 --> 02:21:58,680
what you're trying to do right now. The whoever's in

2562
02:21:58,840 --> 02:22:02,120
charge right now doesn't have the will to stop that.

2563
02:22:04,639 --> 02:22:10,120
If you're you know, if you're trying to if you're

2564
02:22:10,159 --> 02:22:13,360
not trying to figure out a way to get through

2565
02:22:13,479 --> 02:22:17,639
all of this that's realistic other than words on a screen,

2566
02:22:21,120 --> 02:22:23,600
other than I mean, like, literally, this is what I

2567
02:22:23,719 --> 02:22:27,680
see all the time. I just see these these comments

2568
02:22:27,840 --> 02:22:30,680
come to me and it's all, Okay, I get it, man,

2569
02:22:31,120 --> 02:22:33,440
I get it. But you don't have the power to

2570
02:22:33,559 --> 02:22:36,479
do anything. It's just your belief at this point.

2571
02:22:36,920 --> 02:22:40,280
Speaker 2: And what what is it? What are you doing? You're

2572
02:22:40,399 --> 02:22:44,159
just basically like if if.

2573
02:22:44,040 --> 02:22:46,760
Speaker 1: You tell me that you want me to come here,

2574
02:22:47,520 --> 02:22:49,959
that you want to come here on the stream and

2575
02:22:50,159 --> 02:22:53,079
like pour this stuff out because it makes you feel better,

2576
02:22:53,760 --> 02:22:57,280
that's all you're doing. You're just trying to make yourself

2577
02:22:57,319 --> 02:22:59,920
feel better. You're trying You're coming here to make comments

2578
02:23:00,440 --> 02:23:04,879
hoping that someone agrees with you. And yeah, I do

2579
02:23:05,079 --> 02:23:08,360
agree with you, but this ain't it. It ain't gonna happen.

2580
02:23:08,600 --> 02:23:11,200
You don't have the power to do it. No one

2581
02:23:11,360 --> 02:23:14,120
on your side has the power to do it. The

2582
02:23:14,200 --> 02:23:16,559
people in charge don't have the will to do it,

2583
02:23:19,000 --> 02:23:20,879
you know, and you know Trashka and Jackson's why does

2584
02:23:20,879 --> 02:23:22,440
everyone have a right to a better life?

2585
02:23:22,520 --> 02:23:22,879
Speaker 2: But us?

2586
02:23:23,639 --> 02:23:27,840
Speaker 1: I don't have a bad life. What are you talking about?

2587
02:23:30,040 --> 02:23:36,959
Do you have a bad life? Seriously, what are you

2588
02:23:37,079 --> 02:23:39,479
talking about? I mean, I was talking on the street

2589
02:23:39,559 --> 02:23:42,959
the other night about how you know, my wife's nieces

2590
02:23:43,040 --> 02:23:45,959
and nephews are in their early twenties. They all have

2591
02:23:46,079 --> 02:23:50,959
good jobs, they're buying houses, They're getting married and buying houses. Okay,

2592
02:23:52,440 --> 02:23:56,440
I mean, sure that's anecdotal, but why aren't you doing it?

2593
02:23:56,559 --> 02:24:00,639
They're white, they're white heritage Americans, they're thirteen the fourteenth

2594
02:24:00,719 --> 02:24:02,319
generation Americans.

2595
02:24:02,719 --> 02:24:03,680
Speaker 2: Why aren't you doing it?

2596
02:24:06,959 --> 02:24:09,559
Speaker 4: You know? If I answer Steve directly, I mean, the

2597
02:24:09,639 --> 02:24:12,040
thing is, you can you don't have. You do not

2598
02:24:12,239 --> 02:24:15,200
have the ability to defend your home from the forces

2599
02:24:15,239 --> 02:24:18,639
we're talking about. You and your community might have the

2600
02:24:18,719 --> 02:24:22,200
power to defend your homes, but you have to build

2601
02:24:22,280 --> 02:24:24,639
that community. Chances are you don't live in one right now.

2602
02:24:24,799 --> 02:24:28,719
Maybe you do, most people don't. You know, when we

2603
02:24:29,479 --> 02:24:32,719
went through that process of breaking up the ethnic enclaves

2604
02:24:32,760 --> 02:24:34,559
and our big cities, and those people moved out to

2605
02:24:34,639 --> 02:24:37,239
the suburbs, and all of a sudden, instead of being

2606
02:24:37,239 --> 02:24:40,840
in an Italian neighborhood, you're an Italian American dude with

2607
02:24:40,959 --> 02:24:44,399
a mixed breed neighbor and a you know over here,

2608
02:24:44,559 --> 02:24:50,760
and a Irish Irish German serb over here and everybody.

2609
02:24:50,959 --> 02:24:53,200
You know that all those things have been broken up.

2610
02:24:55,120 --> 02:24:59,319
You know that that rebuilding a community that's actually capable

2611
02:24:59,360 --> 02:25:02,719
of self govern ornance and self help and that can

2612
02:25:02,799 --> 02:25:06,920
actually mobilize to defend itself in any way, that is

2613
02:25:07,079 --> 02:25:10,200
just that is the prerequisite to anything else happening. You know,

2614
02:25:10,520 --> 02:25:12,520
look at the people back in like you know, in

2615
02:25:12,600 --> 02:25:15,959
the nineteen sixties when all this forced integration stuff was

2616
02:25:16,040 --> 02:25:19,600
going on. I mean, these were these people were motivated

2617
02:25:19,639 --> 02:25:23,079
to defend their communities. They were organized. You know, you

2618
02:25:23,200 --> 02:25:26,159
go back to like, uh into Newark or in parts

2619
02:25:26,200 --> 02:25:31,440
of like in uh what East Brooklyn, other places East

2620
02:25:31,479 --> 02:25:36,479
New York. When this started to happen, you had Italian guys,

2621
02:25:36,600 --> 02:25:40,520
Jewish guys, Lithuanian guys all coming together and like physically

2622
02:25:40,600 --> 02:25:42,879
fighting in the streets, not only with people come into

2623
02:25:42,879 --> 02:25:45,520
their neighborhoods, but with cops. And these are people who

2624
02:25:45,559 --> 02:25:49,399
were organized like by the local parish, you know, who

2625
02:25:49,440 --> 02:25:53,159
had lived they lived among people who had watched them

2626
02:25:53,399 --> 02:25:57,719
be born and that they would watch die and they

2627
02:25:57,760 --> 02:25:59,920
would care these are you know, this was their real

2628
02:26:00,120 --> 02:26:03,159
community and they were very motivated to defend it. And

2629
02:26:03,719 --> 02:26:06,719
the states still over over random you know, and you

2630
02:26:06,879 --> 02:26:09,120
have to understand you don't live in a community like

2631
02:26:09,200 --> 02:26:13,239
that now, you know, and you individually are not going

2632
02:26:13,319 --> 02:26:16,040
to defend shit. You're just not going to. I mean,

2633
02:26:16,520 --> 02:26:20,520
you know, if Randy Weaver couldn't defend his home and

2634
02:26:20,600 --> 02:26:23,559
his family, then you're certainly not going to either. You know,

2635
02:26:24,040 --> 02:26:26,719
you need a community, you need people at your back.

2636
02:26:26,799 --> 02:26:29,360
That's the only way you get through something like this.

2637
02:26:30,239 --> 02:26:34,159
And again, unfortunately, or maybe not unfortunately, maybe it makes

2638
02:26:34,200 --> 02:26:36,639
it easier to really kind of get back to first

2639
02:26:36,680 --> 02:26:39,520
principles and start from scratch, you know, if it's this way.

2640
02:26:39,879 --> 02:26:44,200
But you know, unfortunately, like we we're at the bottom

2641
02:26:44,280 --> 02:26:46,360
rung just getting started on all this right now, and

2642
02:26:46,399 --> 02:26:49,559
you have to go through it. And it's not particularly rewarding,

2643
02:26:49,760 --> 02:26:52,600
you know, on a results level. It's very rewarding on

2644
02:26:52,639 --> 02:26:54,879
a personal on a social level, you know, to actually

2645
02:26:54,920 --> 02:26:56,920
start to build these bonds with other people and build

2646
02:26:56,920 --> 02:26:59,559
that social capital in your life. But it doesn't necessarily

2647
02:26:59,639 --> 02:27:01,879
mean that you're going to see big like political victories

2648
02:27:01,920 --> 02:27:04,040
that you're going to see on TV on a daily basis.

2649
02:27:04,079 --> 02:27:06,200
That's just not the realm that we're fighting in right now.

2650
02:27:06,440 --> 02:27:08,719
Right now, we're fighting on the realm that's not on TV,

2651
02:27:09,200 --> 02:27:13,319
so that by the time it hits TV, there's a

2652
02:27:13,520 --> 02:27:16,840
base underneath it that can actually support that and drive it,

2653
02:27:17,000 --> 02:27:19,879
you know. And but look, man, I don't want to

2654
02:27:21,799 --> 02:27:25,520
like whoever it was it said like deserve a better life.

2655
02:27:26,440 --> 02:27:30,840
Look I get it. I get it, man, Like you know,

2656
02:27:30,959 --> 02:27:36,399
people who uh are young today and are looking around

2657
02:27:36,520 --> 02:27:38,879
at the world that they've been handed and it's gonna,

2658
02:27:39,159 --> 02:27:43,040
you know, be there soon enough. I understand the rage

2659
02:27:43,079 --> 02:27:46,040
and despair that you know that has to come with that,

2660
02:27:46,639 --> 02:27:51,799
you know, because I mean, what is it you're being promised?

2661
02:27:51,959 --> 02:27:57,200
What is it that you're being like, like, uh invited

2662
02:27:57,319 --> 02:28:00,799
to participate in? You know, what's the meaning structure that

2663
02:28:02,000 --> 02:28:05,600
you know? Any a society has to has provided its

2664
02:28:05,600 --> 02:28:09,079
people with safety and all of these kind of things.

2665
02:28:09,120 --> 02:28:11,680
A society, a community really has to provide people with

2666
02:28:13,239 --> 02:28:15,680
reasons outside themselves to get up out of bed in

2667
02:28:15,719 --> 02:28:18,319
the morning and go do things. That's what a functional

2668
02:28:18,479 --> 02:28:22,120
nation or a functional religion has to offer people. And

2669
02:28:22,760 --> 02:28:26,000
what are we offering these young guys? You know, Okay, yeah,

2670
02:28:26,040 --> 02:28:27,319
you can still go out and get a job, you

2671
02:28:27,319 --> 02:28:28,840
can do this, and you can still buy a house

2672
02:28:28,879 --> 02:28:30,280
and all that, but like, what are we asking you

2673
02:28:30,360 --> 02:28:32,799
to be a part of that? Shit has been thrown

2674
02:28:33,200 --> 02:28:35,719
into the blender over the last you know, fifty to

2675
02:28:35,760 --> 02:28:37,920
one hundred years. And so I understand people who go

2676
02:28:38,040 --> 02:28:40,239
into this world and they're looking around and all they

2677
02:28:40,319 --> 02:28:42,280
feel is rage. And when they hear people like me

2678
02:28:42,479 --> 02:28:44,200
saying you need to take a step back and take

2679
02:28:44,200 --> 02:28:47,040
a breath, that they just react with anger to that.

2680
02:28:47,879 --> 02:28:49,719
I understand. I do. I do get it.

2681
02:28:52,280 --> 02:28:53,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I get it too.

2682
02:28:53,600 --> 02:28:53,760
Speaker 4: You know.

2683
02:28:53,840 --> 02:28:57,079
Speaker 1: I think that people have this tendency to look at

2684
02:28:57,159 --> 02:28:59,319
a lot of the stuff that I read and a

2685
02:28:59,360 --> 02:29:02,360
lot of the think that I'm like purely id ideological.

2686
02:29:02,799 --> 02:29:03,959
Speaker 2: I'm not. I mean, I.

2687
02:29:05,840 --> 02:29:07,760
Speaker 1: You're gonna have to You're gonna have to work with

2688
02:29:07,840 --> 02:29:10,399
people you don't want to work to work with in

2689
02:29:10,559 --> 02:29:12,840
order to get in order to get things done, you know,

2690
02:29:12,920 --> 02:29:15,000
I mean you when you look at some of the

2691
02:29:15,079 --> 02:29:18,440
alliances that were made in history, so that you can

2692
02:29:19,600 --> 02:29:20,600
defeat an enemy.

2693
02:29:21,440 --> 02:29:22,079
Speaker 2: You know, you're.

2694
02:29:24,760 --> 02:29:28,719
Speaker 1: You protect yourself the best you can from whatever they're

2695
02:29:28,879 --> 02:29:34,000
throwing at you. It's like it's like England. Everybody like

2696
02:29:34,440 --> 02:29:36,440
there are so many people over there who are like

2697
02:29:36,559 --> 02:29:42,639
completely anti Muslim now, and I'm like, Okay, you need

2698
02:29:42,760 --> 02:29:45,440
to protect yourself if you're living in a dangerous situation.

2699
02:29:46,280 --> 02:29:49,959
But you can't forget why that happened and who did

2700
02:29:50,000 --> 02:29:54,159
it to you, Okay, because if you really want to win,

2701
02:29:55,200 --> 02:29:57,639
you're going to have to defeat them, because you could

2702
02:29:58,120 --> 02:30:01,760
get all the deportations you want, but if you don't

2703
02:30:02,399 --> 02:30:05,959
get rid of the people who deep who caused this,

2704
02:30:07,000 --> 02:30:08,440
it's just going to happen again.

2705
02:30:09,280 --> 02:30:09,399
Speaker 2: You know.

2706
02:30:09,520 --> 02:30:14,079
Speaker 1: It's like you're they people are so focused on one

2707
02:30:14,280 --> 02:30:17,280
thing and they think that this one silver bullet will

2708
02:30:17,399 --> 02:30:20,760
solve everything, and they don't realize that this is like

2709
02:30:20,920 --> 02:30:24,000
I mean, you know, it's like Tom. I understand why

2710
02:30:24,040 --> 02:30:27,600
a lot of people, you know, go after Thomas. Thomas

2711
02:30:27,719 --> 02:30:29,559
is probably one of the most pragmatic people on the

2712
02:30:29,600 --> 02:30:33,159
planet when it comes to what's happening. You know, I

2713
02:30:33,399 --> 02:30:35,920
know people hate him because he goes into the hood

2714
02:30:35,959 --> 02:30:39,559
and interviews black guys like you know, it just goes

2715
02:30:39,600 --> 02:30:41,959
and talks to hood black guys because he wants to

2716
02:30:42,040 --> 02:30:44,920
know what's going on in that world, and he accepts

2717
02:30:44,959 --> 02:30:48,040
it that that they're here and that they're not getting

2718
02:30:48,040 --> 02:30:51,840
shipped to Liberia. You know, he's he looks at the

2719
02:30:51,920 --> 02:30:55,040
world in a way where he's like, well, this country's

2720
02:30:55,040 --> 02:30:56,760
probably gonna be around for another one hundred and fifty

2721
02:30:56,760 --> 02:31:00,840
two hundred years, and we need to find people. We

2722
02:31:01,000 --> 02:31:05,000
need to find our people and you know, gather together.

2723
02:31:05,159 --> 02:31:08,680
And people are so stuck in this. Well, if we

2724
02:31:08,799 --> 02:31:12,120
get the reins of power at the national level, well

2725
02:31:12,239 --> 02:31:13,000
people have done that.

2726
02:31:13,639 --> 02:31:14,440
Speaker 2: Nothing changes.

2727
02:31:14,920 --> 02:31:18,600
Speaker 1: Okay, if you're doing that, if that's your goal, you're

2728
02:31:18,760 --> 02:31:25,600
basically the same as a person who was protesting cars

2729
02:31:26,200 --> 02:31:30,600
on behalf of coach of you know, horse and buggy drivers.

2730
02:31:32,040 --> 02:31:35,920
This government is an anachronism. Okay, they still can do

2731
02:31:36,120 --> 02:31:42,719
things that can harm harm you personally, but this that,

2732
02:31:43,079 --> 02:31:46,600
if that's an anachronism, it's not the answer getting your

2733
02:31:46,680 --> 02:31:49,840
guy elected president and then he's going to turn. He's

2734
02:31:49,920 --> 02:31:52,639
going to have this you know, this Austrian painter turn

2735
02:31:52,719 --> 02:31:56,000
where he's going. That's not going to happen. I'm sorry,

2736
02:31:56,639 --> 02:32:00,760
I'm sorry. It's not going to happen. You're actually going

2737
02:32:00,920 --> 02:32:04,879
to have to do something. And you know, if you

2738
02:32:05,319 --> 02:32:09,399
if you want to come into my comments and throw

2739
02:32:09,559 --> 02:32:13,840
all these platitudes and you know, all of this purity spiraling,

2740
02:32:14,000 --> 02:32:17,479
and it's only going to it's only perfection is the

2741
02:32:17,559 --> 02:32:19,319
only way we're going to get through this. We have

2742
02:32:19,440 --> 02:32:21,600
to have I have to have my perfect thing or

2743
02:32:22,000 --> 02:32:23,959
or it's not going to solve this and I can't

2744
02:32:24,000 --> 02:32:26,600
have a happy life. And all these opportunities are being

2745
02:32:26,639 --> 02:32:30,319
taken away, taken away from me. I fucking get it. Okay,

2746
02:32:31,200 --> 02:32:34,959
no one is coming to save you. You're going to

2747
02:32:35,079 --> 02:32:37,799
have to do it yourself. You're going to have to

2748
02:32:37,879 --> 02:32:41,479
find people who have that same mentality of we're going

2749
02:32:41,520 --> 02:32:43,520
to have to do it ourselves. Guys, we're going to

2750
02:32:43,559 --> 02:32:46,440
have to, like Aaron McIntyre says, build what comes next,

2751
02:32:47,040 --> 02:32:49,680
because we're not going back.

2752
02:32:50,360 --> 02:32:55,440
Speaker 4: Well, yeah, And the real because is that when this

2753
02:32:55,600 --> 02:33:00,040
anachronism does start to does begin to stop functioning, I

2754
02:33:00,040 --> 02:33:03,399
would say it already has. If you haven't built that out,

2755
02:33:03,760 --> 02:33:05,680
you're going to be a victim of that process. You're

2756
02:33:05,719 --> 02:33:07,200
not going to be a beneficiary of it.

2757
02:33:08,040 --> 02:33:10,200
Speaker 1: People think, I remember when I was a libertarian. People

2758
02:33:10,239 --> 02:33:12,120
were like, we just need the state, you know. A

2759
02:33:12,200 --> 02:33:14,840
narco capitalist are like, we just need the state to collapse.

2760
02:33:15,079 --> 02:33:17,600
And then what, everybody's going to become a narco capitalist?

2761
02:33:17,680 --> 02:33:18,559
Why what did you build?

2762
02:33:19,159 --> 02:33:21,399
Speaker 4: What? What? No?

2763
02:33:21,520 --> 02:33:23,159
Speaker 1: You know, who's going to be in charge? The person

2764
02:33:23,200 --> 02:33:26,440
who can feed people. That's who's going to be in charge.

2765
02:33:26,680 --> 02:33:29,319
The person who can feed people. Oh okay, so you

2766
02:33:29,360 --> 02:33:31,719
want to start a movement in this country, start feeding

2767
02:33:31,760 --> 02:33:32,200
your neighbor.

2768
02:33:32,799 --> 02:33:34,360
Speaker 2: But my neighbor is brown.

2769
02:33:37,959 --> 02:33:40,239
Speaker 4: Yeah, if he's loyal to you, like you know, if

2770
02:33:40,280 --> 02:33:42,360
he's loyal to you because you were there for him

2771
02:33:42,399 --> 02:33:45,479
at a critical time. I mean, you know, the idea

2772
02:33:45,559 --> 02:33:47,959
that that should draw some kind of hardline of demarcation

2773
02:33:48,120 --> 02:33:50,200
is just foreign to me, I guess. I mean one

2774
02:33:50,239 --> 02:33:52,600
of the things that I there's this great little book.

2775
02:33:52,719 --> 02:33:54,479
You might have read it before. If you haven't, you should.

2776
02:33:54,520 --> 02:33:56,239
It's I can send it to you if you want,

2777
02:33:56,319 --> 02:34:02,200
called Dedication and oh gosh, it's been too long. So

2778
02:34:02,399 --> 02:34:05,040
it's by a British writer named Douglas Hyde, and he

2779
02:34:05,200 --> 02:34:07,639
was a leader in the British Communist Party for like

2780
02:34:07,719 --> 02:34:10,000
twenty five years. He was the editor of the Daily Worker.

2781
02:34:10,120 --> 02:34:12,719
So he was an up there dude, and in nineteen

2782
02:34:12,799 --> 02:34:18,120
forty eight he converted to Catholicism and left communism. And

2783
02:34:18,399 --> 02:34:20,639
the little book It's like one hundred pages, is based

2784
02:34:20,680 --> 02:34:22,760
on a series of talks he gave to some Catholic

2785
02:34:22,879 --> 02:34:26,159
lay leaders in the early sixties as a cultural revolution

2786
02:34:26,319 --> 02:34:29,040
was starting to take hold and they were starting to

2787
02:34:29,120 --> 02:34:32,520
see like their you know, Catholic influence on people starting

2788
02:34:32,600 --> 02:34:34,559
to slip away as they moved into all these other,

2789
02:34:35,239 --> 02:34:39,600
you know, hedonistic movements and other things. And his series

2790
02:34:39,680 --> 02:34:42,079
of talks was basically not to talk about the evils

2791
02:34:42,079 --> 02:34:44,719
of communism. It was to tell him what the communists

2792
02:34:44,840 --> 02:34:47,840
did that was right in terms of how they developed

2793
02:34:47,840 --> 02:34:50,520
their people, how they recruited and developed their people, and

2794
02:34:50,639 --> 02:34:53,319
what the Church was just getting completely wrong, you know.

2795
02:34:53,799 --> 02:34:56,000
And this is basically like a lot of this is

2796
02:34:56,079 --> 02:34:58,000
what he talked A lot of what you just said

2797
02:34:58,079 --> 02:35:02,040
is what he talked about. Is you know, he actually

2798
02:35:02,159 --> 02:35:04,799
says early on in the book that when he was

2799
02:35:04,840 --> 02:35:07,639
in the movement, a lot of their very very very

2800
02:35:07,719 --> 02:35:11,559
best people had gone to the church first and said

2801
02:35:11,600 --> 02:35:13,280
I'm here, I'm ready, i want to change the world,

2802
02:35:13,319 --> 02:35:17,760
i want to improve whatever Britain just you know, what

2803
02:35:17,879 --> 02:35:19,280
do I do? What can I do? What can I do?

2804
02:35:19,760 --> 02:35:22,360
And they would say, oh, that's awesome, show up a

2805
02:35:22,399 --> 02:35:24,799
half hour early on Sunday and help set up the chairs.

2806
02:35:25,879 --> 02:35:28,280
And so then they went to the communists, and the

2807
02:35:28,319 --> 02:35:31,360
Communists said, well, how much energy you got, because we

2808
02:35:31,440 --> 02:35:34,799
want that and we want fifty percent more, and if

2809
02:35:34,840 --> 02:35:36,840
you're not cut out for that yet, we'll train you

2810
02:35:36,959 --> 02:35:38,639
and we'll get you set up. And one of the

2811
02:35:38,719 --> 02:35:42,799
first things that they would tell like a new recruit

2812
02:35:42,920 --> 02:35:46,680
or somebody who was coming into the movement is they'd say, like,

2813
02:35:46,760 --> 02:35:49,520
you know, they would want to come in and start agitating.

2814
02:35:49,680 --> 02:35:53,760
They would want to start, you know, being like an

2815
02:35:53,920 --> 02:35:56,280
organizer or a writer. They want to do something like that.

2816
02:35:56,360 --> 02:35:59,360
They associate with the activism itself, and they would for

2817
02:35:59,479 --> 02:36:02,120
the first six months, for the first year, sometimes longer,

2818
02:36:02,559 --> 02:36:04,159
they would say, no, no, no, no no. If you

2819
02:36:04,239 --> 02:36:05,959
want to be a useful member of this movement, the

2820
02:36:06,040 --> 02:36:07,600
first thing you're going to do is go get your

2821
02:36:07,639 --> 02:36:10,000
life in order. The first thing you're going to do

2822
02:36:10,200 --> 02:36:12,920
is go back to work tomorrow at your factory and

2823
02:36:13,079 --> 02:36:15,959
start the process of being the baddest motherfucker in that

2824
02:36:16,159 --> 02:36:19,760
factory that everybody looks to for leadership and guidance that

2825
02:36:20,040 --> 02:36:22,639
everybody knows is on point, and then you need to

2826
02:36:22,680 --> 02:36:25,040
be that in your community, and then you need all

2827
02:36:25,079 --> 02:36:27,239
of these other things so that when you do start

2828
02:36:27,319 --> 02:36:31,680
to talk, people shut their mouths and fucking listen. You know,

2829
02:36:32,200 --> 02:36:34,440
like that's your whole first job is get your get

2830
02:36:34,520 --> 02:36:36,840
your own life in order, your family's life, your work,

2831
02:36:37,000 --> 02:36:38,479
all these things in order to start from me.

2832
02:36:38,559 --> 02:36:39,520
Speaker 2: Do you know who else did that?

2833
02:36:39,760 --> 02:36:41,440
Speaker 1: Do you know who else said this to people when

2834
02:36:41,479 --> 02:36:42,920
they came to him and said, I want to join

2835
02:36:42,959 --> 02:36:43,399
your movement?

2836
02:36:45,120 --> 02:36:48,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, George Lincoln, George Lincoln Rockwell.

2837
02:36:47,959 --> 02:36:52,799
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah, Because I mean because it's a it's

2838
02:36:52,840 --> 02:36:54,600
a basic principle that when you when you say it

2839
02:36:54,639 --> 02:36:57,520
out loud, it's like, oh yeah, obviously. But you know

2840
02:36:58,079 --> 02:37:00,440
what that involves is a lot of non golos amorous

2841
02:37:00,799 --> 02:37:04,159
work that you know, it is sort of preliminary background

2842
02:37:04,280 --> 02:37:07,040
work to like the royal heroic stuff, you know, but

2843
02:37:07,159 --> 02:37:10,719
this is the stuff that that the heroic action is

2844
02:37:10,799 --> 02:37:13,600
built on. You know, Otherwise it's the other side that's

2845
02:37:13,639 --> 02:37:15,360
going to have the heroic action and you're going to

2846
02:37:15,399 --> 02:37:17,079
be on the wrong end of it. You know.

2847
02:37:19,000 --> 02:37:21,120
Speaker 1: I'm say I got a couple more super chits. I

2848
02:37:21,159 --> 02:37:23,280
really appreciate you putting this, uh putting the time in

2849
02:37:23,360 --> 02:37:28,879
on this one. Daniel Robbins, thank you. Uh duh. Daniel

2850
02:37:28,959 --> 02:37:31,120
Robinson says Darrel's point about the story of the USA

2851
02:37:31,200 --> 02:37:34,319
mappings history of Chicago, another story can be told of USA,

2852
02:37:34,440 --> 02:37:38,319
considering Saint Louis seeded that role to Chicago as US

2853
02:37:38,440 --> 02:37:41,040
primary transport hub and wealthiest city.

2854
02:37:43,680 --> 02:37:46,360
Speaker 4: That he has where somebody should write that book man,

2855
02:37:46,479 --> 02:37:50,479
like a real deep like historical study of of doing

2856
02:37:50,520 --> 02:37:52,319
it like that. There there are a few good ones

2857
02:37:52,360 --> 02:37:54,680
on Chicago. I think ones like I think it's called

2858
02:37:54,799 --> 02:37:57,120
Nature's Metropolis that kind of does that, but it is

2859
02:37:57,280 --> 02:38:01,280
isolated to Chicago. It doesn't kind of take into account

2860
02:38:01,360 --> 02:38:05,200
the transfers of political and social and economic power over time.

2861
02:38:05,600 --> 02:38:06,559
That's very interesting.

2862
02:38:08,399 --> 02:38:10,200
Speaker 1: He had another super chat where he said the history

2863
02:38:10,239 --> 02:38:12,680
of how true world class cities like Saint Louis or

2864
02:38:12,719 --> 02:38:16,200
Buffalo went in under one hundred years from the wealthiest,

2865
02:38:16,239 --> 02:38:19,520
most grandiose cities to total abomination in the twentieth century

2866
02:38:20,399 --> 02:38:21,959
also tells our story.

2867
02:38:23,079 --> 02:38:23,280
Speaker 3: Yeah.

2868
02:38:23,319 --> 02:38:27,559
Speaker 4: I tell people all the time to as much as

2869
02:38:27,639 --> 02:38:31,000
it might not be on their radar, if you want

2870
02:38:31,000 --> 02:38:33,559
to take a vacation, like somewhere in the United States,

2871
02:38:34,719 --> 02:38:38,959
go check out Detroit, and people say, Detroit, it's a hellhole,

2872
02:38:39,040 --> 02:38:41,200
And yes it is. Go downtown and look at the

2873
02:38:41,239 --> 02:38:44,200
Fisher Building, Go look at their public library, Go look

2874
02:38:44,200 --> 02:38:47,559
at all the stuff that was built when Detroit was

2875
02:38:47,639 --> 02:38:50,680
not the wealthiest country in the city in the world,

2876
02:38:50,760 --> 02:38:53,239
it was the wealthiest city in the history of the world.

2877
02:38:53,879 --> 02:38:57,840
Magnificent place. And the great thing is, the hopeful thing

2878
02:38:58,000 --> 02:39:00,760
is maybe all this infrastructure still in place for the

2879
02:39:00,799 --> 02:39:01,239
most part.

2880
02:39:01,799 --> 02:39:02,399
Speaker 2: You know, a lot of it.

2881
02:39:02,479 --> 02:39:04,680
Speaker 4: Anyway, a lot of it they've replaced and demolished with

2882
02:39:04,799 --> 02:39:06,959
ugly shit. But like a lot of this stuff is

2883
02:39:07,040 --> 02:39:09,799
still there and available to be recolonized if we can

2884
02:39:09,879 --> 02:39:14,360
actually get our act together. But you know, yeah, he's

2885
02:39:14,440 --> 02:39:16,799
right though, that, like the decline of these cities. I mean,

2886
02:39:17,440 --> 02:39:19,520
that really is the story of the twentieth century. In

2887
02:39:19,520 --> 02:39:22,399
a lot of ways, it was the the you know,

2888
02:39:22,799 --> 02:39:25,319
like Spangler talks about in the intro to Decline of

2889
02:39:25,360 --> 02:39:28,280
the West. He says, you know, civilizations enter this period

2890
02:39:28,360 --> 02:39:32,440
of the megalopolis where the city just swallows up all economic, social,

2891
02:39:32,559 --> 02:39:35,559
political activity, everything. You compare that to like you know,

2892
02:39:36,000 --> 02:39:39,159
under feudalism, you know, the lords might all be at

2893
02:39:39,200 --> 02:39:41,479
court or something, but their power base was distributed in

2894
02:39:41,559 --> 02:39:43,680
the countryside. And all of a sudden you get into

2895
02:39:43,719 --> 02:39:47,760
this modern into this modern era, and you know, again

2896
02:39:47,799 --> 02:39:50,120
it applies to all civilizations, he would say, but all

2897
02:39:50,159 --> 02:39:54,200
civilizations have their own modern era. The countryside sort of

2898
02:39:54,239 --> 02:39:57,040
becomes desiccated as the cities just suck all the life

2899
02:39:57,159 --> 02:40:00,159
energy of the of the region into themselves, and that

2900
02:40:00,399 --> 02:40:03,399
really came to its apogee in the early twentieth century.

2901
02:40:04,040 --> 02:40:06,959
And then now we're kind of living through, you know,

2902
02:40:07,280 --> 02:40:11,920
their decline and the all of the the sort of

2903
02:40:13,120 --> 02:40:16,000
you know, the social and economic consequences of that. You know,

2904
02:40:16,079 --> 02:40:18,600
I just think about how amazing it is that there's

2905
02:40:19,520 --> 02:40:21,479
at least the last time I checked, there was a

2906
02:40:21,559 --> 02:40:26,760
net inflow of blacks coming from California and the Northeast

2907
02:40:26,799 --> 02:40:28,920
and all that back to the south. You know, there's

2908
02:40:28,959 --> 02:40:31,159
a remigration of blacks to the South. I mean, this

2909
02:40:31,319 --> 02:40:36,120
is there's there's probably no more, no more clear and

2910
02:40:36,319 --> 02:40:40,079
obvious sign of the decline of American cities than the

2911
02:40:40,159 --> 02:40:44,719
fact that that is taking place, you know, And yeah,

2912
02:40:44,879 --> 02:40:46,680
I agree with him one hundred percent. So it's one

2913
02:40:46,680 --> 02:40:48,760
of the things, it's one of my fixations. Actually, is

2914
02:40:48,799 --> 02:40:49,559
that very topic?

2915
02:40:51,719 --> 02:40:53,520
Speaker 1: All right, man, I'm gonna let you go, let you

2916
02:40:53,639 --> 02:40:55,399
get you, let you go back to the World War

2917
02:40:55,520 --> 02:40:56,760
two series, because.

2918
02:40:56,879 --> 02:41:00,639
Speaker 4: Yeah, actually it's my Sunday. I give my I give

2919
02:41:00,719 --> 02:41:02,920
my wife my Sundays, and she's got a big list

2920
02:41:03,000 --> 02:41:03,399
of work.

2921
02:41:03,239 --> 02:41:06,879
Speaker 2: For me to do outside, so well give her my condolences.

2922
02:41:07,239 --> 02:41:09,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, I appreciate that, Brotheran.

2923
02:41:09,200 --> 02:41:12,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, I heard you talking about that on your What

2924
02:41:12,159 --> 02:41:15,239
You Dropped yesterday. I listened to your substacks because they

2925
02:41:15,280 --> 02:41:17,280
have that function where even the ones you write I

2926
02:41:17,319 --> 02:41:19,319
can listen to. So I listened to it with that

2927
02:41:19,399 --> 02:41:24,879
weird voice, not yours obviously, but yeah, yeah, but thank you,

2928
02:41:25,520 --> 02:41:29,440
and I appreciate it, and everyone goes subscribe to the

2929
02:41:29,479 --> 02:41:30,399
Martyr Made Stuffstack.

2930
02:41:30,440 --> 02:41:32,520
Speaker 4: If you do want to do a follow up with Thomas,

2931
02:41:32,639 --> 02:41:34,799
I'm happy to do that. In fact, he might want to.

2932
02:41:35,200 --> 02:41:37,479
We could just talk about Chicago or talk about something

2933
02:41:37,520 --> 02:41:39,959
like the Haymarket affair in Chicago that he probably knows

2934
02:41:40,000 --> 02:41:42,440
a lot about and I can talk about as well.

2935
02:41:42,559 --> 02:41:45,159
Whatever you want to do. So I'm always here for you, man.

2936
02:41:45,760 --> 02:41:47,360
Speaker 2: We'll do it. Thank you, Thank you.

2937
02:41:47,479 --> 02:41:50,280
Speaker 1: Everybody, and even even the ones we disagreed with.

2938
02:41:50,520 --> 02:41:52,200
Speaker 2: Thank you for coming back. You take care enough