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<v Speaker 1>Well, whiskey, come and take my pain, the money, my way,

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<v Speaker 1>o whiskey. Why think alone when you can drink it

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<v Speaker 1>all in with Ricochet's three whiskey Happy Hour. Join your bartenders,

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<v Speaker 1>Steve Hayward, John, You and the international woman of Mystery, Lucretia, where.

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<v Speaker 2>The laps it oppen live it ain't you easy on

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<v Speaker 2>the should tap, got a giving and let that whiskey blow.

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<v Speaker 1>It's the three whiskey Happy Hour from all corners of

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<v Speaker 1>the globe, at least in the northern hemisphere. Lucretia is

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<v Speaker 1>in Anchorage, Alaska. I'm somewhere in the Barren Sea, steaming

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<v Speaker 1>to the farthest northern points of Norway. And John is

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<v Speaker 1>holding down the fort in some undisclosed location in the

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<v Speaker 1>Bay area. So ah, and we're coming to you as

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<v Speaker 1>in case you've been hiding under a rock in the

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<v Speaker 1>midst of the modern day War of the Roses that

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<v Speaker 1>pits du Elon of Musk against Viscount Donald of trump

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<v Speaker 1>Land in that big fight. You know, I don't have

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<v Speaker 1>too much to say about it except for a couple

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<v Speaker 1>of crazy things. But are you Are you guys paying attention?

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<v Speaker 1>Is there anything about it that is either surprising. I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>I kind of expected sooner or later they'd have some

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<v Speaker 1>problems for obvious reasons, I think, But is there anything

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<v Speaker 1>notable about this or is this all just social media

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<v Speaker 1>circus and nonsense? Lucretia, do you want to go first?

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<v Speaker 3>Okay, two things. The number one the problem was when

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<v Speaker 3>you stuck Elon Musk with Doge and he actually started

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<v Speaker 3>looking at how horrendous the whole situation is with federal

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<v Speaker 3>spending and the way money is spent, to whom the

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<v Speaker 3>money is distributed in all of those things. You know,

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<v Speaker 3>you'd have to admit that had to be an existential

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<v Speaker 3>crisis from Musk to have his kind of a brain

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<v Speaker 3>and realize that are subtle budgetary spending system is so

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<v Speaker 3>messed up, and then to see the big beautiful bill

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<v Speaker 3>that does really nothing about it, and then you know

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<v Speaker 3>they're not even going to take up the Doge cuts

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<v Speaker 3>and so on. I imagine that his his turnaround here

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<v Speaker 3>is perhaps so real that he, being the somewhat autistic

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<v Speaker 3>guy that he is, he just can't move past it.

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<v Speaker 3>That's the one possibility or explanation. But then the other

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<v Speaker 3>one is I'm hoping it's all just fake.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh, right, Okay, Well, that's one of the conspiracy theories

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<v Speaker 1>is that it's all fake, you know, and it's not

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<v Speaker 1>beyond Donald Trump to patch things up with somebody that

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<v Speaker 1>he's yelled at, right, I mean, he's hired all these

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<v Speaker 1>people he formally attacked, and so by the time this

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<v Speaker 1>reaches listeners, it could be all over. Who knows.

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<v Speaker 3>Maybe it's a conspiracy to get Tesla back in the black,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, give a lawn musk a chance, let people

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<v Speaker 3>go back to buying Tesla's.

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<v Speaker 1>Well yeah, uh, well, I could go on about that,

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<v Speaker 1>about how the Tesla has always been the outlier on

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<v Speaker 1>electric cars, and that that's the profitable company. It doesn't

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<v Speaker 1>need the subsidies and text credits anymore.

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<v Speaker 4>Whereas I'm talking just about sales, because as long as

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<v Speaker 4>he's tied with Donald Trump, there's a very significant portion

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<v Speaker 4>of the population who'd buy an electronic vehicle who won't

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<v Speaker 4>buy it because of his association with Trump.

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<v Speaker 1>Well that might be, I might be he might well

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<v Speaker 1>he might have been not eve enough not to have

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<v Speaker 1>expected that. He should have expected.

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<v Speaker 3>That, I think, But this is the whole game to

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<v Speaker 3>get him to to people to think he hates Trump.

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<v Speaker 1>So Okay, well I remember, well maybe I remember, you

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<v Speaker 1>know the famous line from Michael Jordan when he was

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<v Speaker 1>pressured by Democrats why don't you support Democrats? And Jordan said,

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<v Speaker 1>because I want to sell my shoes to Republicans too.

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<v Speaker 1>That's why I'm not going to get involved in politics, right,

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<v Speaker 1>So you know he had a sense of that. So John,

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<v Speaker 1>The other crazy conspiracy I've heard is this is really

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<v Speaker 1>the tech community. It's an inside deep state tech community

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<v Speaker 1>conspiracy to get Trump impeached or ousted so that JD.

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<v Speaker 1>Vans can be elevated to be president right away because JD.

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<v Speaker 1>Vans is in the pocket of Silicon Valley. And at

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<v Speaker 1>this point I can't decide if this is for real

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<v Speaker 1>or if this is some Russian troll farm doing this.

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<v Speaker 1>Do you have any goofy theory you like, or even

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<v Speaker 1>a serious one.

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<v Speaker 2>No, I can't think of any goofy theory. But I

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<v Speaker 2>was gonna ask you guys, and is this a bigger

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<v Speaker 2>deal than just a you know, a spat between I

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<v Speaker 2>think Ted Cruiz was like, I feel like a divorced

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<v Speaker 2>kid with mom and dad just yelling at each other

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<v Speaker 2>all the time. Can't they just make up? But I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>isn't the Musk reppers. I mean, and I was asking you, guys,

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<v Speaker 2>doesn't Musk represent a substantial portion of people who support

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<v Speaker 2>it for supported Trump? You know this our young male

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<v Speaker 2>you know video game playing, you know tech support. They're

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<v Speaker 2>involved in technology, group of young men who in all

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<v Speaker 2>racial groups voted for Trump in large numbers last election.

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<v Speaker 2>And won't this hurt Trump going to the mid terms

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<v Speaker 2>because these are probably that people who aren't going to

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<v Speaker 2>vote generally in a mid term unless you get them energize,

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<v Speaker 2>and so, you know, Musk and Trump fall out. Musk,

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<v Speaker 2>I mean the things he said in his tweets right,

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<v Speaker 2>talking about forming another party, Trump, impeaching Trump, Trump's in

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<v Speaker 2>the Epstein files. This is a right, this is a Trump,

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<v Speaker 2>this is a I'm sorry, this is musk uh leaving

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<v Speaker 2>the coalition? And isn't that bad for a governing party

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<v Speaker 2>as it you know, that has a one seat majority.

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<v Speaker 2>It seems to have like barely a one seat majority

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<v Speaker 2>in the House and trying to govern well.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, I think that although Trump is by far, sorry,

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<v Speaker 1>Musk is by far and away the most prominent tech

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<v Speaker 1>person associated with Trump. I think a lot of the

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<v Speaker 1>other people who have made peace with Trump or even

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<v Speaker 1>support him, you know, Zuckerberg Bezos to a certain extent,

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<v Speaker 1>Mark Andres and others in Silicon Valley. I think they

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<v Speaker 1>came by their reversal and support for Trump honestly and

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<v Speaker 1>on their own. I don't think this was necessarily the

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<v Speaker 1>key to that, although he certainly helped. I think I

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<v Speaker 1>guess I had a second point about that. Oh well,

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<v Speaker 1>maybe it'll come back to me that brain cells dead

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<v Speaker 1>from the whiskey already.

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<v Speaker 3>But I think it's just the same thing as the

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<v Speaker 3>three whiskey happy hour. I mean, you know, I call

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<v Speaker 3>you guys names and make fun of you and point

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<v Speaker 3>out your flaws on a regular basis, but we still

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<v Speaker 3>care about each other deeply.

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<v Speaker 2>I still wouldn't buy a car from you used or knew.

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<v Speaker 1>Right.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm not sure if you're driving, I'm not sure, but

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<v Speaker 2>if the autopilot's driving, probably yes.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah. I mean I always just thought that the

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<v Speaker 1>two people with very large egos, very strong views, idiosyncratic

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<v Speaker 1>and all the rest, that sooner or later they were

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<v Speaker 1>going to hit the wall. Uh, And I didn't know

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<v Speaker 1>if it would be this spectacular a splat, but but

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<v Speaker 1>so it is. But all right, I want to move

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<v Speaker 1>on to since we get Lucretia back. She's just going

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<v Speaker 1>to get her third cup of coffee since it's too

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<v Speaker 1>early in the morning for her.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh now, just by the way, that behind her in

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<v Speaker 2>the window, there's like some kind of bird of prey

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<v Speaker 2>flying about to catch kill some poor in the field.

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<v Speaker 2>It's on the window and when she leaves, the bird

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<v Speaker 2>still stays to frighten Steve to keep him in.

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<v Speaker 3>Did you see the text I sent you this morning,

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<v Speaker 3>John with my visitor.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh, yeah, that was so had a moose.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, moose came up to the back of the deck

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<v Speaker 3>and one to say hi to me.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>When I was in Alaska, I saw those an elk too,

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<v Speaker 2>and I think I had elk burger and moose sausage

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<v Speaker 2>and all kinds of things like that.

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<v Speaker 5>It was good up here, the popular thing. I'm sorry, And.

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<v Speaker 2>This judge took me up in a god. I think

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<v Speaker 2>it was like one of those balsa wood plains where

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<v Speaker 2>where the propeller was a rubber band and you'd spun

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<v Speaker 2>it around and let it go and then it would

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<v Speaker 2>fly around. I held on so tight, I mean it

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<v Speaker 2>was the plane looked like a car. The inside of

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<v Speaker 2>the plane looked like a car dash and steering wheel

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<v Speaker 2>from the sixties. And he just took me up. Here

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<v Speaker 2>was Fairbanks, so he said, it was like the farthest

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<v Speaker 2>north that human beings actually settled. And he took me

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<v Speaker 2>up and this was the summer. And then we went

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<v Speaker 2>like a mile north and he said, and you could

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<v Speaker 2>see where people tried to like build little homesteads or

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<v Speaker 2>you know, living trailers, and then it was just unsuccessful.

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<v Speaker 2>They couldn't do it.

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<v Speaker 5>Yeah, yeah, it's amazing.

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<v Speaker 3>They're a little bit of a garden in the backyard.

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<v Speaker 3>And because of we're at twenty four hours of sunshine

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<v Speaker 3>right now, because we're almost at summer solstice, things just

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<v Speaker 3>grow by leaves and bounds in the summertime. And this,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, this far downwards warmer, lots of lots of

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<v Speaker 3>water obviously, and so it's very interesting.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm having fun, all right, So now just have a

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<v Speaker 1>speaking of having fun, I'm gonna let you have a

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<v Speaker 1>little more fun, Lucretia, because I want to get your

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<v Speaker 1>quick reaction released about mop ed about the release this

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<v Speaker 1>week of Kareean John Pierre's book, where she dumps all

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<v Speaker 1>over President Biden and the democrats, declares herself an independent

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<v Speaker 1>because she wants to tell it straight. And the funny

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<v Speaker 1>thing about this is that she's getting dumped on by

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of people on the inside and the Biden administration.

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<v Speaker 1>Uh tim Wu, who's you know, kind of a presence

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<v Speaker 1>in the democratic world? He said, Oh lost his quote here?

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<v Speaker 1>Uh he said here. It is the real problem with

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<v Speaker 1>Kareean John Pierre was that she was kind of dumb

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<v Speaker 1>kind right, No, So I mean, I don't know if

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<v Speaker 1>you want to take a victory lap Lucretia because Democrats

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<v Speaker 1>are now Democrats are now saying everything that you've been

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<v Speaker 1>saying about her for three years.

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<v Speaker 5>Yeah, duh, I know. Uh there's a reason.

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<v Speaker 3>But that let me just say if while I engage

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<v Speaker 3>in my lookism, that I will give her a compliment

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<v Speaker 3>because I made fun of her hair, which is just nasty.

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<v Speaker 3>She doesn't have to do that. That's a political statement.

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<v Speaker 3>But otherwise, she's quite an attractive woman and you know,

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<v Speaker 3>in good shape and so on. She's fifty and I

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<v Speaker 3>was actually surprised. Yeah, yeah, she's fifteen years old, so

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<v Speaker 3>so credit to her for looking that good at fifty.

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<v Speaker 3>All right, So that being said to play, she dumb.

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<v Speaker 3>I just think it's rats on a sinking a sinking

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<v Speaker 3>ship right now because the Democratic Party has had message

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<v Speaker 3>discipline across the board, not just what their political messages were,

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<v Speaker 3>but they're internal politics, such discipline for so long, and

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<v Speaker 3>now that it's showing itself to be, you know, just

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<v Speaker 3>a sinking party. The rats are not just leaving the

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<v Speaker 3>sinking ship, but they're turning on each other because you know,

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<v Speaker 3>they're starving to death. And I think that's what's happening

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<v Speaker 3>with Kage. I mean, give her some credit. She managed

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<v Speaker 3>to take the dumbest things, the most the worst things

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<v Speaker 3>that were happening in the Biden administration and put a

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<v Speaker 3>spin on them that was so dumb nobody could question it.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, well, maybe that's an interesting theory. Well in my

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<v Speaker 1>because I one question I've had all along is how

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<v Speaker 1>do those supposedly self respecting journalists sit there and take

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<v Speaker 1>that dribble from her day after day and don't seem

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<v Speaker 1>to be outraged about it? But I think maybe you

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<v Speaker 1>just explained it. You were so dumb that they were speechless.

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<v Speaker 1>But no, here's the.

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<v Speaker 3>Series parallel to their it's parallel to their supposed Oh

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<v Speaker 3>my god, did you see, maybe he was, after all, uh,

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<v Speaker 3>senile the whole time.

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<v Speaker 5>It's they they.

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<v Speaker 3>Purposely they knew she was stupid. They knew Biden was senile,

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<v Speaker 3>and the fact that she was so dumb allowed them.

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<v Speaker 3>It's probe questioned, somebody so stupid?

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, But.

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<v Speaker 2>Lucretia is actually saying she was truth teller because when

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<v Speaker 2>she said I can't keep with Joe Biden, she was

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<v Speaker 2>telling the truth.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh that's good. Well, look, here's a serious question for

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<v Speaker 1>both of you. The fact that the Democrats are saying

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<v Speaker 1>the kind of things we said, not that she was

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<v Speaker 1>dominate bad answers, but they're saying things like, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>we should quit hiring people for identity politics reasons. They

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<v Speaker 1>hired her to check a box. She couldn't be criticized

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<v Speaker 1>because of who she was and the identity. Is this

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<v Speaker 1>yet another nail the coffin of DEI I kind of

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<v Speaker 1>see it as Democrats have gotten some of them have

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<v Speaker 1>gotten the memo and saying we've got to quit doing

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<v Speaker 1>this because it's bad for us. Or is that too optimistic?

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<v Speaker 1>As I often.

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<v Speaker 2>Am, John, I think it's going to have to that

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<v Speaker 2>will be true when they start realizing that the Krusia's

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<v Speaker 2>other favorite Brown Jackson also is or Sonya Soda Mayor

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<v Speaker 2>are very very weak justices. When you read their opinions.

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<v Speaker 1>Listen or well, jam we're coming to them in that moment,

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<v Speaker 1>but they're just not.

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<v Speaker 2>So there's this kind of force field. You could say

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<v Speaker 2>that immunized, right DEI appointments, they would not to be

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<v Speaker 2>criticized by the Democratic Party, And even our side has

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<v Speaker 2>to say when we're criticizing them for being by the

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<v Speaker 2>merits we want to make Claire, we're not criticizing them

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<v Speaker 2>because of their skin color. And I think you're right, Steve,

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<v Speaker 2>that that's starting to erode with cream whatever. I can't

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<v Speaker 2>remember her name anymore. I just think, I mean, I

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<v Speaker 2>just think of lucretiaisms. I'm like, because of mop whatever,

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<v Speaker 2>and I just think of her hair. Now, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>she's just you know, by the way, there's there's just

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<v Speaker 2>an anecdote. So there was this time when John Bolton

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<v Speaker 2>was going to run for office, was thinking about ready

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<v Speaker 2>for president. So a cartoonist friend of mine just made

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<v Speaker 2>up a poster of him and it was just a mustache.

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<v Speaker 2>So now when I think of KPJ, I think I

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<v Speaker 2>just think of a head. That's a mop. Because of Lucretia.

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<v Speaker 2>I can't remember her name anymore.

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<v Speaker 1>She looked like shobab from the citizens. If you, oh, yes, let.

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<v Speaker 3>Me ask the same thing you guys are saying. Let

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<v Speaker 3>me ask it on a deeper level. If Democrats are

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<v Speaker 3>beginning to realize that these affirmative action appointments are a

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<v Speaker 3>dumb idea because they're losing. Because they're losing, I mean,

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<v Speaker 3>Katanji is, as you put it, not a strong justice,

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<v Speaker 3>but she wrote in a majority opinion.

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<v Speaker 5>We'll come back to that. I'm not getting ahead of you, Steve.

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<v Speaker 5>I promise that you.

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<v Speaker 3>Know undermined the left physician on that. We'll just say

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<v Speaker 3>that and come back to it. But my point is

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<v Speaker 3>it's something you said a long time ago, and it

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<v Speaker 3>was the first time I thought about it, John, when

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<v Speaker 3>we were in your office and you said that the

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<v Speaker 3>left didn't do themselves any favors by putting a lifetime

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<v Speaker 3>appointment like Katangi Brown Jackson, because she was in fact

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<v Speaker 3>a black woman, and that was her only real qualification

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<v Speaker 3>out of all the talented jurists, even leftist jurists across

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<v Speaker 3>the country. No way anybody could say Katanji was the

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<v Speaker 3>best choice, and the left has had to pay for that, seriously,

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<v Speaker 3>had to pay for that as a lost and you

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<v Speaker 3>said it I think a few weeks ago, not just

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<v Speaker 3>a lost appointment, but worsen loss. She can't even convince

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<v Speaker 3>her fellow justices of anything. Probably sends them in the

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<v Speaker 3>other direction.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, all right, we'll come back to them in

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<v Speaker 1>a moment. Because of the this week's cases, I too

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<v Speaker 1>have one more fun headline for you, Lucretia that I

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<v Speaker 1>didn't share in my pre show notes. This is from

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<v Speaker 1>The Hill, supposedly a serious journal of you know, political

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<v Speaker 1>news in Washington, d C. And the headline is, and

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<v Speaker 1>I'm just springing this on you, cold, Jasmine Crockett can

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<v Speaker 1>bring the Democratic Party back from the brink, Lucretia, go.

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<v Speaker 3>Oh my god, Jasmine Crockett makes Katangi look like Julius Caesar.

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<v Speaker 5>I mean, you know, I don't know how to I

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<v Speaker 5>don't even know.

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<v Speaker 6>She is so foul and the idea that any Democrat

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<v Speaker 6>but it That's not the only headline I've seen a

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<v Speaker 6>bunch of them this last week about her.

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<v Speaker 3>I mean, they're so desperate for someone they can pin

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<v Speaker 3>their their weak feeble hopes on the idea that someone

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<v Speaker 3>like that who appeals to the lowest element of the

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<v Speaker 3>Democratic Party. And I don't mean race baiting there. What

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<v Speaker 3>I mean is she's obnoxious. I'm not going to say

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<v Speaker 3>she's totally stupid. I don't think that's true. I think

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<v Speaker 3>she's probably intelligent enough, but her character is just so low,

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<v Speaker 3>so she's lacking in any kind of integrity. She wants

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<v Speaker 3>to remake the way we do politics by just being

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<v Speaker 3>foulmouthed and ugly and stupid all the time. If they

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<v Speaker 3>want to go with that, let them. That's not going

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<v Speaker 3>to appeal to a large number of people.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, I thought at first I thought that I thought

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<v Speaker 1>this must be satire. But then I also thought, if

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<v Speaker 1>if there's a Machiavelli and genius behind it, it is

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<v Speaker 1>that again, smarter Democrats are terrified that Alexandria Ocasio Cortez

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<v Speaker 1>is going to be their nominee in three years for president,

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<v Speaker 1>and so the best way to maybe blunt that is

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<v Speaker 1>to elevate some other nutcakes to be the face of

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<v Speaker 1>the party. I mean, that's I'm being mostly facetious with that,

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<v Speaker 1>but I don't know. I thought that's the craziest idea

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<v Speaker 1>I've ever seen.

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<v Speaker 2>But it's also it's a typical of the left because

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<v Speaker 2>they seem to be so rudderless and have no they

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<v Speaker 2>have no ideological platform, and so what do they fall

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<v Speaker 2>back on If they can't find h you know, someone

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<v Speaker 2>who's thoughtful, and they can't find someone who's got a

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<v Speaker 2>program or platform, they cangree and then they just revert

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<v Speaker 2>back to race their gender. Yeah, okay, the unifying principle

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<v Speaker 2>something new?

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<v Speaker 3>So what the the last probably forever, but at least

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<v Speaker 3>as long as all the three of us have been

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<v Speaker 3>paying attention to politics. What if we see coming out

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<v Speaker 3>of both parties mostly white males, but the occasional something else.

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<v Speaker 3>But they're all these politicians, these slick politicians that say

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<v Speaker 3>essentially the same thing, and there's a little difference at

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<v Speaker 3>the margins.

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<v Speaker 5>And the reason that Trump has been.

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<v Speaker 3>So successful is he is a bit soul mouth compared

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<v Speaker 3>to the or at least he doesn't use the language

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<v Speaker 3>of the average Republican politician, and he's willing to be

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<v Speaker 3>a little bit more.

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<v Speaker 5>Authentic. Good, I mean, you believed I said that.

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<v Speaker 3>But if you want to talk authentic for the Democratic Party,

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<v Speaker 3>does it get any more authentic than that loud mouthed

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<v Speaker 3>Ugh Jasmine Crockett with their stupid ass fake nails and

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<v Speaker 3>forty five inch long eyelashes, and oh my god, think

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<v Speaker 3>there's the authenticity.

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<v Speaker 1>I think you're on something important there. I mean, I

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<v Speaker 1>always made the point about Reagan is that you had

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<v Speaker 1>to pay close attention. But he did speak with the

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<v Speaker 1>usual political vocabulary of Washington, d C. Now, it wasn't

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<v Speaker 1>as u so far out there as Trump has been,

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<v Speaker 1>but Trump is obviously that mode. And I think we

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<v Speaker 1>and you know, explains why Ross Porrow is such a

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<v Speaker 1>sudden phenomenon. Not just the outsider part. That's part of it,

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<v Speaker 1>but part of it is you're so far outside that

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<v Speaker 1>you don't talk like the average politician. I can go

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<v Speaker 1>on about that, but I won't. I think we want

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<v Speaker 1>to move on to the law because there's too much

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<v Speaker 1>more fun to be had here, because what an interesting week.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, uh, first of all, you know, uh more

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<v Speaker 1>district court judges throwing down against Trump moves. I mean's

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<v Speaker 1>I think let's plow through that to the better stuff.

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<v Speaker 1>I do think it's a master stroke that here in

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<v Speaker 1>the last couple of days, the Trump administration says, fine,

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<v Speaker 1>we'll bing, We'll bring back Maryland Mann from l Salvador

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<v Speaker 1>that the Democrats love, and we're gonna charge him with

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<v Speaker 1>the various crimes, right, Maryland father whatever, and we're gonna

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<v Speaker 1>charge him with various crimes like human traffick and others.

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<v Speaker 1>And I think that's gonna be fun to watch. Uh uh,

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<v Speaker 1>So they're gonna My prediction is they're gonna make Democrats

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<v Speaker 1>are gonna make him their activist wing, will make him

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<v Speaker 1>the new Who's that guy in Philadelphia John Mumia abdul

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<v Speaker 1>Jamal or something, right, who became the you know right?

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, you know that guy used to get invited

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<v Speaker 1>to give commencement addresses from his jail cells to colleges. Right.

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<v Speaker 1>That's how crazy the left is about a person who's

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<v Speaker 1>obviously guilty of what killing a cop?

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<v Speaker 2>I think it was right, Okay, there's no doubt about

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<v Speaker 2>his conviction.

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<v Speaker 1>Right. But I think the most startling news of the week,

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<v Speaker 1>and I think it is startling, and it's been lost

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<v Speaker 1>of all the Trump Musk drama is three big cases

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<v Speaker 1>out of the Supreme Court, nine zero unanimous verdicts coming

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<v Speaker 1>out on our side. I think you'd say written by

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<v Speaker 1>the three liberal Democratic justices. I propose going in reverse

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<v Speaker 1>order from what I proposed to you. I think we

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<v Speaker 1>had to punch out the Mexico gun case and Wisconsin

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<v Speaker 1>religious qualification and tax case quickly to get to the

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<v Speaker 1>Aims case, which is I think the most interesting of them.

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<v Speaker 1>But so what Mexico sued the US under the theory

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<v Speaker 1>the anti gun people have been using for a long time,

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<v Speaker 1>saying essentially its product liability is one aspect of it,

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<v Speaker 1>isn't it, John, And the Supreme Court said no, sorry,

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<v Speaker 1>go away, We're not going to hear this suit. And

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<v Speaker 1>I didn't get a chance to read it, but that

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<v Speaker 1>was my understanding of it. I follow similar cases in

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<v Speaker 1>the climate sphere, which gets us, you know, in the

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<v Speaker 1>same neighborhood as a certain statute we cannot mention here.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, there is a state case in Washington suing

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<v Speaker 1>the oil companies for wrongful death for a woman who

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<v Speaker 1>died of heatstroke in her car on hot day with

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<v Speaker 1>her windows rolling. My success was pasted right and all

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<v Speaker 1>the other ones.

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<v Speaker 2>There's a case that was in the Wall Street Journal

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<v Speaker 2>going in Louisiana by lawyers saying that the production of

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<v Speaker 2>aviation fuel in World War two caused the erosion of

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<v Speaker 2>coastal barriers that have made Louisiana more vulnerable hurricanes. New

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<v Speaker 2>York State passed the law. I think that said, it's

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<v Speaker 2>not even a toryla billy, just as we're imposing a

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<v Speaker 2>fee on all the oil companies for all the harm

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<v Speaker 2>they've did to mankind. So yeah, I've written about it,

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<v Speaker 2>You've written about it. Yeah, So two things about that case.

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<v Speaker 2>One is it doesn't bear directly on the global warming cases.

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<v Speaker 2>I wish it did. But in this case, Congress passed

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<v Speaker 2>a special statute, yeah, twenty somewhat immunizing, Yeah, immunizing you know,

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<v Speaker 2>gun manufacturers. And it's said that you just can't sue

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<v Speaker 2>gun manufacturers for normal products liability saying that they made

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<v Speaker 2>their product negligently. You have to actually show that the

420
00:22:30.759 --> 00:22:34.880
<v Speaker 2>gun manufacturers aided and embedded in the condition of some crime.

421
00:22:35.079 --> 00:22:37.720
<v Speaker 2>And it's interesting, I mean, just as a matter of

422
00:22:38.160 --> 00:22:41.480
<v Speaker 2>how ridiculous the courts up in New England have become,

423
00:22:42.039 --> 00:22:45.519
<v Speaker 2>is that they allowed a foreign government, which should take

424
00:22:45.519 --> 00:22:48.559
<v Speaker 2>its problems to you know, you know, use diplomacy. They

425
00:22:48.599 --> 00:22:50.759
<v Speaker 2>allowed a foreign government to come into our courts and

426
00:22:50.799 --> 00:22:55.400
<v Speaker 2>sue our own right manufacturers for things that are happening

427
00:22:55.400 --> 00:22:58.240
<v Speaker 2>in their country. Right, Like if there's a rise in

428
00:22:58.279 --> 00:23:00.720
<v Speaker 2>gun crime in Mexico, well, who's problem is it. It's

429
00:23:00.720 --> 00:23:03.519
<v Speaker 2>the Mexican government's problem. They should crack down on it.

430
00:23:03.880 --> 00:23:06.559
<v Speaker 2>But instead they do this maneuver where they sue the

431
00:23:06.559 --> 00:23:12.039
<v Speaker 2>gun manufacturers in the United States. I guess ideas that

432
00:23:12.119 --> 00:23:14.920
<v Speaker 2>the Mexican government, that's actually the Mexican government did it.

433
00:23:14.960 --> 00:23:18.440
<v Speaker 2>So I guess we should go into Mexican court and

434
00:23:18.480 --> 00:23:23.400
<v Speaker 2>sue every right oil and chemical manufacturer for fentanyl coming

435
00:23:23.440 --> 00:23:26.799
<v Speaker 2>into the United States. Right, it's the same theory. Maybe

436
00:23:26.839 --> 00:23:28.480
<v Speaker 2>that's not a bad idea. I'll give you guys a

437
00:23:28.480 --> 00:23:31.039
<v Speaker 2>piece of the winnings if we actually get anywhere. But

438
00:23:33.160 --> 00:23:35.440
<v Speaker 2>you know, that's one. But the second thing is that's

439
00:23:35.480 --> 00:23:39.960
<v Speaker 2>why it's unanimous, because it's so ridiculous. But this is

440
00:23:41.000 --> 00:23:43.880
<v Speaker 2>it's worth time in regard to some of these other

441
00:23:43.920 --> 00:23:48.240
<v Speaker 2>issues involving Harvard and these district judges you're talking about, Steve.

442
00:23:48.640 --> 00:23:51.799
<v Speaker 2>This is all happening in what's called the first circuit.

443
00:23:51.799 --> 00:23:54.240
<v Speaker 2>These are the states, the federal courts, and the states

444
00:23:54.279 --> 00:23:57.519
<v Speaker 2>up in Upper New England, Massachusetts and so on. This

445
00:23:57.640 --> 00:24:01.200
<v Speaker 2>is also the same court that is enjoining Trump's decisions

446
00:24:01.200 --> 00:24:04.839
<v Speaker 2>on visas involving Harvard. As Lucretia point out in the

447
00:24:04.880 --> 00:24:07.519
<v Speaker 2>last podcast, this is the same court that said it

448
00:24:07.519 --> 00:24:10.440
<v Speaker 2>was okay for Harvard to discriminate against Asian and whites

449
00:24:10.440 --> 00:24:14.319
<v Speaker 2>and emissions and on and on. So if you're a liberal,

450
00:24:14.400 --> 00:24:17.119
<v Speaker 2>and I guess that includes the Mexican government now, and

451
00:24:17.160 --> 00:24:21.240
<v Speaker 2>you want to sue Trump, or you want to sue conservatives,

452
00:24:21.319 --> 00:24:24.400
<v Speaker 2>you go to Boston. That's the most favorable grounds. That's

453
00:24:24.400 --> 00:24:25.799
<v Speaker 2>the home court for liberals.

454
00:24:26.359 --> 00:24:28.640
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, what's the old line. It used to be your

455
00:24:28.720 --> 00:24:31.279
<v Speaker 1>your porn old book would be banned in Boston. It

456
00:24:31.359 --> 00:24:34.519
<v Speaker 1>was so extreme. And now it's we'll sue Boston. Let's

457
00:24:34.559 --> 00:24:36.720
<v Speaker 1>file away for the moment that the author of that

458
00:24:36.759 --> 00:24:38.400
<v Speaker 1>opinion was Justice Kagan.

459
00:24:38.920 --> 00:24:40.319
<v Speaker 2>And file it away.

460
00:24:40.920 --> 00:24:44.119
<v Speaker 3>I actually want to ask John something about that. So

461
00:24:44.680 --> 00:24:48.079
<v Speaker 3>Kagan wrote the opinion. It was not a bad opinion.

462
00:24:48.200 --> 00:24:51.599
<v Speaker 3>Even Thomas agreed. He just wants to go, you know,

463
00:24:51.640 --> 00:24:55.920
<v Speaker 3>as usual, a few steps further on the underlying legal

464
00:24:55.960 --> 00:24:58.319
<v Speaker 3>doctrine and say legal doctrines are stupid.

465
00:24:58.359 --> 00:24:59.839
<v Speaker 5>But we won't go there yet.

466
00:25:00.759 --> 00:25:03.720
<v Speaker 3>I do want to say that this is the kind

467
00:25:03.759 --> 00:25:06.319
<v Speaker 3>I want to ask Actually, John, this is the kind

468
00:25:06.359 --> 00:25:09.359
<v Speaker 3>of case where if the court had decided in favor

469
00:25:09.960 --> 00:25:13.000
<v Speaker 3>of the Mexican government, if they had said that, okay,

470
00:25:13.039 --> 00:25:18.640
<v Speaker 3>aiding and abetting the cartels because you manufactured something they

471
00:25:18.759 --> 00:25:25.200
<v Speaker 3>ended up using, without any findings of actual violations and

472
00:25:25.279 --> 00:25:26.839
<v Speaker 3>so on, all of those things.

473
00:25:28.039 --> 00:25:28.599
<v Speaker 5>What would have.

474
00:25:28.519 --> 00:25:31.400
<v Speaker 3>Happened if the court would have decided this differently? It

475
00:25:31.440 --> 00:25:36.559
<v Speaker 3>could have been I would think, absolutely catastrophic in its

476
00:25:36.640 --> 00:25:40.519
<v Speaker 3>implications across the board, not just gun manufacturers, cars.

477
00:25:40.920 --> 00:25:41.440
<v Speaker 5>I don't know.

478
00:25:41.880 --> 00:25:46.119
<v Speaker 3>That's It seems to me that even allowing this case

479
00:25:46.160 --> 00:25:48.200
<v Speaker 3>to go forward in the first place was probably a

480
00:25:48.279 --> 00:25:51.880
<v Speaker 3>huge mistake. But thank god, unanimously the court subved it

481
00:25:51.960 --> 00:25:53.559
<v Speaker 3>back and said no, no, no, we're not going to

482
00:25:53.599 --> 00:25:53.839
<v Speaker 3>do this.

483
00:25:54.160 --> 00:25:55.200
<v Speaker 5>Am I wrong? John?

484
00:25:55.279 --> 00:26:00.480
<v Speaker 3>And thinking that aiding a manufacturer creating a product without

485
00:26:00.519 --> 00:26:05.319
<v Speaker 3>having to show any intention of maliciousness or without ever

486
00:26:05.359 --> 00:26:10.200
<v Speaker 3>being found themselves liable for any violation, we can?

487
00:26:10.240 --> 00:26:12.400
<v Speaker 1>I can? I put the question simply, John, wouldn't this

488
00:26:12.440 --> 00:26:15.440
<v Speaker 1>open automn manufacturers the suits every time someone's killed in

489
00:26:15.480 --> 00:26:16.319
<v Speaker 1>a car crash?

490
00:26:16.799 --> 00:26:17.039
<v Speaker 2>Yeah?

491
00:26:17.319 --> 00:26:18.319
<v Speaker 1>I think about this way.

492
00:26:18.559 --> 00:26:22.559
<v Speaker 2>Is there's a you know, a standard what we call negligence,

493
00:26:22.599 --> 00:26:25.640
<v Speaker 2>which is that you know, someone made the product unreasonably,

494
00:26:26.200 --> 00:26:29.240
<v Speaker 2>so it was unsafe because you made unreasonable decisions. So

495
00:26:29.400 --> 00:26:31.920
<v Speaker 2>the gun manufacturers get the benefit of a much much

496
00:26:32.039 --> 00:26:34.359
<v Speaker 2>way higher standard called aiding and a betting, which is

497
00:26:34.359 --> 00:26:39.000
<v Speaker 2>really a criminal idea, criminal law idea. But if I

498
00:26:39.000 --> 00:26:43.519
<v Speaker 2>think you're both, if Mexico succeeded in surviving that hurdle,

499
00:26:44.119 --> 00:26:47.119
<v Speaker 2>not only I think would the firearm industry be done,

500
00:26:47.480 --> 00:26:49.920
<v Speaker 2>because then everybody is going to sue in the United

501
00:26:49.960 --> 00:26:53.039
<v Speaker 2>States who's shot, and they're just gonna say, well, if

502
00:26:53.079 --> 00:26:55.680
<v Speaker 2>Mexico can sue because people got shot in Mexico, why

503
00:26:55.720 --> 00:26:58.640
<v Speaker 2>can't die in the United States, So the firearm industry

504
00:26:58.680 --> 00:27:01.319
<v Speaker 2>would be done. Interesting quite about whether that would be

505
00:27:01.359 --> 00:27:03.759
<v Speaker 2>a violation of the Second Amendment if the government makes

506
00:27:03.759 --> 00:27:06.720
<v Speaker 2>it so easy to sue and put out of business

507
00:27:06.759 --> 00:27:10.400
<v Speaker 2>every gun manufacturer has it in some way, I violate

508
00:27:10.480 --> 00:27:13.440
<v Speaker 2>our Second Amendment rights, but then.

509
00:27:12.799 --> 00:27:14.400
<v Speaker 5>Be limited to gun manufacturers.

510
00:27:14.559 --> 00:27:17.400
<v Speaker 2>No, No, And then my next point is, well, because

511
00:27:17.400 --> 00:27:20.680
<v Speaker 2>this law only is about this really heightened standard, But

512
00:27:20.839 --> 00:27:23.279
<v Speaker 2>I think it's right. There has been erosion over time

513
00:27:24.000 --> 00:27:26.319
<v Speaker 2>about the idea that you raise, and actually this is

514
00:27:26.480 --> 00:27:28.720
<v Speaker 2>I love this. This is a difference between natural law

515
00:27:29.200 --> 00:27:33.680
<v Speaker 2>and law and economics positivism. Somehow you guys found your

516
00:27:33.759 --> 00:27:36.519
<v Speaker 2>way to it without even knowing it. You guys just

517
00:27:36.599 --> 00:27:36.960
<v Speaker 2>knew it.

518
00:27:37.039 --> 00:27:37.680
<v Speaker 1>You knew it.

519
00:27:37.799 --> 00:27:42.039
<v Speaker 2>So there used to be this idea that there, you know,

520
00:27:42.119 --> 00:27:44.200
<v Speaker 2>you would that if you were going to hold someone

521
00:27:44.240 --> 00:27:47.640
<v Speaker 2>responsible for an accident they caused, there had to be

522
00:27:47.680 --> 00:27:50.400
<v Speaker 2>some kind of moral responsibility to it, or an attention

523
00:27:50.640 --> 00:27:55.519
<v Speaker 2>or they did something wrong. And then you're in the

524
00:27:55.519 --> 00:27:59.720
<v Speaker 2>around the mid twentieth century, there's this idea, no one's

525
00:27:59.759 --> 00:28:04.079
<v Speaker 2>a you just have an accident and you just distribute

526
00:28:04.079 --> 00:28:07.440
<v Speaker 2>the money to fix the costs of you know, where

527
00:28:07.440 --> 00:28:09.359
<v Speaker 2>they fell. So you can hear it all the time,

528
00:28:09.440 --> 00:28:14.200
<v Speaker 2>like no fault divorce, no fault auto insurance. Right, this

529
00:28:14.200 --> 00:28:17.039
<v Speaker 2>this is a very progressive idea, right that there's just

530
00:28:17.039 --> 00:28:19.160
<v Speaker 2>a certain number of accidents in the world, and you

531
00:28:19.279 --> 00:28:23.359
<v Speaker 2>have them, and then we redistribute, right the money to

532
00:28:23.640 --> 00:28:27.119
<v Speaker 2>make up for the harms without any regard to moral culpability.

533
00:28:28.119 --> 00:28:30.960
<v Speaker 2>So you're right, that's a big change that's happened, and

534
00:28:31.519 --> 00:28:35.119
<v Speaker 2>were well continue to go down that road, the positivest one,

535
00:28:35.160 --> 00:28:38.400
<v Speaker 2>I'm afraid to say, Well, that's the general view of

536
00:28:38.480 --> 00:28:41.119
<v Speaker 2>how we understand accidents now in law school and a

537
00:28:41.160 --> 00:28:42.839
<v Speaker 2>lot of legislatures, state legislatures.

538
00:28:43.200 --> 00:28:46.319
<v Speaker 1>Darn you, Lure, we're opening up this can darn you

539
00:28:46.359 --> 00:28:48.680
<v Speaker 1>Lucretia for opening up this cannon words because we go

540
00:28:48.759 --> 00:28:50.920
<v Speaker 1>on on this, but I don't want to because it

541
00:28:50.920 --> 00:28:54.440
<v Speaker 1>would well, we'll take away from the future cases like

542
00:28:54.480 --> 00:28:58.160
<v Speaker 1>case number two in Wisconsin. Where is it? Sotomayor wrote

543
00:28:58.160 --> 00:29:03.920
<v Speaker 1>the opinion saying, no, wiscon you can't disqualify for tax

544
00:29:03.960 --> 00:29:08.359
<v Speaker 1>exemption a Catholic a social work organization just because they're

545
00:29:08.400 --> 00:29:12.000
<v Speaker 1>Catholic and you think it's a secular purpose, right, and

546
00:29:12.200 --> 00:29:13.839
<v Speaker 1>so anyway, I didn't read the opinion, but I thought,

547
00:29:13.880 --> 00:29:16.079
<v Speaker 1>again significant that it's a nine zero and sodo Mayor

548
00:29:16.160 --> 00:29:20.920
<v Speaker 1>wrote the opinion reversing the democratic majority democratic only majority

549
00:29:20.960 --> 00:29:25.240
<v Speaker 1>of the Wisconsin State Supreme Court. What should be added

550
00:29:25.240 --> 00:29:25.519
<v Speaker 1>to that?

551
00:29:25.839 --> 00:29:29.160
<v Speaker 2>This is really interesting implications in two directions. I'm not

552
00:29:29.160 --> 00:29:31.319
<v Speaker 2>sure what you guys think of this actually, So the

553
00:29:31.319 --> 00:29:33.119
<v Speaker 2>one I think makes a lot of sense to me

554
00:29:33.839 --> 00:29:39.559
<v Speaker 2>is the core the government can't decide when it treats religion.

555
00:29:40.119 --> 00:29:42.559
<v Speaker 2>I don't think it can look behind the front of

556
00:29:42.599 --> 00:29:45.599
<v Speaker 2>the religion and say we think you should organize yourself

557
00:29:45.640 --> 00:29:48.319
<v Speaker 2>this way versus that way, that's really what this case

558
00:29:48.359 --> 00:29:51.839
<v Speaker 2>is about. Because you're the Catholic church, if you're if

559
00:29:51.880 --> 00:29:56.720
<v Speaker 2>you give, if you have charities that serve non Catholics,

560
00:29:57.480 --> 00:30:00.720
<v Speaker 2>right under this law in Wisconsin, you lost your tax

561
00:30:00.720 --> 00:30:03.680
<v Speaker 2>exemption for those operations. And the court says, why is

562
00:30:03.680 --> 00:30:06.799
<v Speaker 2>it the business of the government to decide what a

563
00:30:06.880 --> 00:30:10.759
<v Speaker 2>religion should do or not do? That's interesting, but the

564
00:30:10.839 --> 00:30:12.720
<v Speaker 2>deeper question, and here I'm not sure what you guys

565
00:30:12.720 --> 00:30:16.240
<v Speaker 2>think of this. I was having a conversation with a

566
00:30:16.319 --> 00:30:19.680
<v Speaker 2>friend of ours that we all know who studies religion closely,

567
00:30:19.720 --> 00:30:21.160
<v Speaker 2>but I don't want to name him.

568
00:30:21.279 --> 00:30:25.480
<v Speaker 1>Because well, someone who occasionally listens to this podcast.

569
00:30:25.519 --> 00:30:28.240
<v Speaker 2>I'm thinking, right, okay, so we know this podcast works

570
00:30:28.240 --> 00:30:31.359
<v Speaker 2>on religion, but you know, we're just emailing. And he said,

571
00:30:31.640 --> 00:30:35.160
<v Speaker 2>doesn't this ultimately mean that the government has to accept

572
00:30:35.160 --> 00:30:38.960
<v Speaker 2>anyone who calls himself a religion a religion because you're

573
00:30:39.000 --> 00:30:41.240
<v Speaker 2>not going to write someone says I'm a religious group,

574
00:30:41.880 --> 00:30:43.720
<v Speaker 2>and then the government saying, we're not going to actually

575
00:30:43.759 --> 00:30:46.599
<v Speaker 2>look at what you do and how you spend your

576
00:30:46.640 --> 00:30:49.400
<v Speaker 2>money and what you decide is you know, a religious

577
00:30:49.440 --> 00:30:50.920
<v Speaker 2>goal or not. We're just going to give you the

578
00:30:50.960 --> 00:30:53.359
<v Speaker 2>tax exemption, which is a the tax senption is a

579
00:30:53.400 --> 00:30:56.359
<v Speaker 2>proxy for we're going to leave you alone entirely. And

580
00:30:56.440 --> 00:30:59.680
<v Speaker 2>so what I told him back was, well, I don't

581
00:30:59.680 --> 00:31:01.880
<v Speaker 2>think that that's true. I mean, the IRS went after

582
00:31:01.960 --> 00:31:05.960
<v Speaker 2>the Church of Scientology because they concluded that it wasn't

583
00:31:06.000 --> 00:31:08.960
<v Speaker 2>really a religion. It was just basically a gigantic tax

584
00:31:09.000 --> 00:31:13.160
<v Speaker 2>fraud scheme, right, and people forget the Supreme Court did

585
00:31:13.200 --> 00:31:15.160
<v Speaker 2>not challenge that view in the end. In the end,

586
00:31:15.160 --> 00:31:17.799
<v Speaker 2>I think it was Congress. No, no, it was Congress political

587
00:31:17.839 --> 00:31:20.880
<v Speaker 2>pressure from Congress, and the IRS dropped it because they

588
00:31:20.920 --> 00:31:24.079
<v Speaker 2>got so harassed about it. I think. So my view

589
00:31:24.160 --> 00:31:27.799
<v Speaker 2>is I still think you can decide the courts should

590
00:31:28.039 --> 00:31:29.920
<v Speaker 2>have to have a line about what's a real religion

591
00:31:30.039 --> 00:31:31.960
<v Speaker 2>or not. But I don't know what you guys think.

592
00:31:32.000 --> 00:31:34.039
<v Speaker 2>Maybe you think that's wrong. Maybe the court's just just

593
00:31:34.160 --> 00:31:37.599
<v Speaker 2>the governments just accept anybody who thinks they're really founding

594
00:31:37.599 --> 00:31:39.880
<v Speaker 2>a church that they get the benefits of these kinds

595
00:31:39.920 --> 00:31:40.680
<v Speaker 2>of protections.

596
00:31:41.880 --> 00:31:44.599
<v Speaker 3>I think the answer to your question, John, is framed

597
00:31:44.680 --> 00:31:48.720
<v Speaker 3>in the way you presented the first point. And the

598
00:31:48.759 --> 00:31:53.359
<v Speaker 3>thing that I found most crazy about the Wisconsin the

599
00:31:53.400 --> 00:31:56.839
<v Speaker 3>Wisconsin side of a court side of those decisions. Was

600
00:31:56.880 --> 00:32:02.359
<v Speaker 3>the idea that because the Catholic charity give their uh,

601
00:32:03.440 --> 00:32:08.079
<v Speaker 3>give services, provide services to non Catholics, it makes it

602
00:32:08.200 --> 00:32:12.640
<v Speaker 3>a secular activity was mind blowing to me. And that

603
00:32:12.759 --> 00:32:15.759
<v Speaker 3>I mean, of course I'm Catholic. Of course I have

604
00:32:16.279 --> 00:32:21.000
<v Speaker 3>very close ties with the Catholic charities in my parish,

605
00:32:21.079 --> 00:32:23.440
<v Speaker 3>and you know that we support and the things.

606
00:32:23.160 --> 00:32:23.759
<v Speaker 5>That they do.

607
00:32:25.880 --> 00:32:34.400
<v Speaker 3>It's the definition of Christianity, and especially Catholic Christianity that you,

608
00:32:34.599 --> 00:32:39.079
<v Speaker 3>as disciples go out and and you know, uh, the

609
00:32:39.200 --> 00:32:42.680
<v Speaker 3>whole forgive me for putting the gospel for a moment,

610
00:32:42.799 --> 00:32:45.839
<v Speaker 3>but you know, Jesus says you you fed me, you

611
00:32:45.960 --> 00:32:49.000
<v Speaker 3>clothed me, you provided a house.

612
00:32:48.799 --> 00:32:51.279
<v Speaker 5>For me, You did all of these things. When did

613
00:32:51.279 --> 00:32:53.000
<v Speaker 5>we do that? Well, when you do them to the

614
00:32:53.119 --> 00:32:54.440
<v Speaker 5>least of these, you do that for me.

615
00:32:54.519 --> 00:32:57.039
<v Speaker 3>That's what Christians are called to do.

616
00:32:57.880 --> 00:32:59.559
<v Speaker 5>And the idea, I mean.

617
00:32:59.720 --> 00:33:01.839
<v Speaker 3>Tom Us gets at it a little bit without being

618
00:33:01.880 --> 00:33:06.079
<v Speaker 3>as emotional about it as i'n being and his concurrence.

619
00:33:06.240 --> 00:33:12.279
<v Speaker 3>But there's the answer. If you're you know, a tax dodge, No,

620
00:33:12.559 --> 00:33:14.359
<v Speaker 3>I don't even want to go there. The whole point

621
00:33:14.440 --> 00:33:18.000
<v Speaker 3>is is that the religious activities of Catholic charities are

622
00:33:18.039 --> 00:33:21.920
<v Speaker 3>not secular activities. They are carrying out of the mission.

623
00:33:21.640 --> 00:33:22.160
<v Speaker 1>Of the church.

624
00:33:22.400 --> 00:33:25.240
<v Speaker 5>Okay, I'm done, Steve. I just had to get that point.

625
00:33:25.799 --> 00:33:29.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so that's an important point because so John, I mean,

626
00:33:29.039 --> 00:33:30.799
<v Speaker 1>I think that question of what counts as a bona

627
00:33:30.839 --> 00:33:32.519
<v Speaker 1>fide religion is a serious question.

628
00:33:32.759 --> 00:33:33.000
<v Speaker 5>It is.

629
00:33:33.000 --> 00:33:36.519
<v Speaker 1>The other hand, on the other hand, look, the Catholic

630
00:33:36.640 --> 00:33:40.079
<v Speaker 1>Church didn't just show up yesterday, right, I mean, there's

631
00:33:40.119 --> 00:33:42.599
<v Speaker 1>no uh, there's no question here. And so that's why

632
00:33:42.640 --> 00:33:44.759
<v Speaker 1>I think the subtext of all these kind of cases

633
00:33:45.599 --> 00:33:48.799
<v Speaker 1>is the political and social one, which is it has

634
00:33:48.839 --> 00:33:51.279
<v Speaker 1>been a project of the secular left for decades now

635
00:33:51.519 --> 00:33:54.480
<v Speaker 1>to marginalize all religion. And boy, they especially hate the

636
00:33:54.519 --> 00:33:57.720
<v Speaker 1>Catholic Church above all, right, and so this is pushed

637
00:33:57.759 --> 00:34:00.359
<v Speaker 1>back against that. You know, it is true that it

638
00:34:00.440 --> 00:34:04.079
<v Speaker 1>not infrequently happens that you'll meet pastor Bob who's performing

639
00:34:04.200 --> 00:34:07.720
<v Speaker 1>a wedding ceremony and he's managed to get quote unquote

640
00:34:07.799 --> 00:34:13.280
<v Speaker 1>or universe some goofy thing, right, And yeah, I'll give example.

641
00:34:13.280 --> 00:34:15.679
<v Speaker 2>I'll give you a real example that remember those there's

642
00:34:15.719 --> 00:34:19.400
<v Speaker 2>a famous Supreme Court case about this religious group that

643
00:34:19.440 --> 00:34:24.840
<v Speaker 2>would protest gay marriage, the Westborough funerals for Westboro, right, yeah, yeah,

644
00:34:25.079 --> 00:34:26.440
<v Speaker 2>and if you look at the facts, it's like a

645
00:34:26.519 --> 00:34:30.400
<v Speaker 2>church of twelve people. Yeah right, yeah, But the court

646
00:34:30.440 --> 00:34:32.719
<v Speaker 2>allowed that to be considered a real religion.

647
00:34:33.119 --> 00:34:35.480
<v Speaker 3>And the funny thing about that case was John It

648
00:34:35.920 --> 00:34:38.400
<v Speaker 3>the all of the people who, all of the entities

649
00:34:38.519 --> 00:34:41.199
<v Speaker 3>who wrote amigas briefs in their favor, you know, on

650
00:34:41.280 --> 00:34:47.199
<v Speaker 3>behalf of the Westboro Church were established institutional churches. They

651
00:34:47.280 --> 00:34:50.880
<v Speaker 3>recognize that the moment you begin to question who is

652
00:34:50.920 --> 00:34:53.880
<v Speaker 3>and who is not a real church, it goes down

653
00:34:54.000 --> 00:34:55.119
<v Speaker 3>a slippery slope.

654
00:34:55.480 --> 00:34:57.079
<v Speaker 2>But there's got to be a limit. Like you guys

655
00:34:57.119 --> 00:35:00.159
<v Speaker 2>don't think this that Tom Cruise is a high bishop

656
00:35:00.159 --> 00:35:04.119
<v Speaker 2>of some church of scientology, right, I mean, come on, no.

657
00:35:03.719 --> 00:35:07.119
<v Speaker 5>No, it's a difficult problem. You know, I don't have

658
00:35:07.159 --> 00:35:07.639
<v Speaker 5>the answer.

659
00:35:08.239 --> 00:35:11.440
<v Speaker 1>But let's leave that problem for another day, perhaps when

660
00:35:11.480 --> 00:35:14.320
<v Speaker 1>our listener and yes, well look, because I want to

661
00:35:14.320 --> 00:35:16.559
<v Speaker 1>get on the I think the most significant case it

662
00:35:16.599 --> 00:35:21.559
<v Speaker 1>was the Ames case involving the woman. White woman claimed

663
00:35:21.559 --> 00:35:24.679
<v Speaker 1>she'd suffered reverse discrimination because she'd been passed over her

664
00:35:24.719 --> 00:35:29.159
<v Speaker 1>promotion by lesser qualified almost sexuals, apparently by a gay

665
00:35:29.519 --> 00:35:32.880
<v Speaker 1>supervisor or something like that. Now, a little context here

666
00:35:33.679 --> 00:35:36.039
<v Speaker 1>back in the eighties when the Reagan administration was trying

667
00:35:36.039 --> 00:35:39.039
<v Speaker 1>to contest what were still fairly recent doctrines in civil rights,

668
00:35:39.239 --> 00:35:41.920
<v Speaker 1>disparate impact and things like that. There's a big fight

669
00:35:41.960 --> 00:35:44.880
<v Speaker 1>over Mary Francis Berry, a big loud mouth of the

670
00:35:44.920 --> 00:35:49.039
<v Speaker 1>so called civil rights community who liked Trump. Reagan tried

671
00:35:49.079 --> 00:35:52.400
<v Speaker 1>to fire or displaced from the US Commission on Civil Rights,

672
00:35:52.440 --> 00:35:55.639
<v Speaker 1>where Carter had placed her, and she said this, I

673
00:35:55.679 --> 00:35:57.519
<v Speaker 1>think in nineteen eighty four. I'm going to quote her

674
00:35:57.519 --> 00:36:01.840
<v Speaker 1>here one sentence. Civil rights laws were not passed to

675
00:36:02.000 --> 00:36:05.519
<v Speaker 1>protect the rights of white men and do not apply

676
00:36:05.679 --> 00:36:09.639
<v Speaker 1>to them, I mean, end quote. That was an orthodoxy

677
00:36:09.639 --> 00:36:12.800
<v Speaker 1>of the civil rights community that, notwithstanding the plain text

678
00:36:12.800 --> 00:36:15.639
<v Speaker 1>of the Civil Rights Act or the Fourteenth Amendment, civil

679
00:36:15.719 --> 00:36:18.920
<v Speaker 1>rights laws were meant to be redistributive and remedial for

680
00:36:19.719 --> 00:36:22.320
<v Speaker 1>protected classes as they were starting to be called in

681
00:36:22.360 --> 00:36:25.400
<v Speaker 1>the law right. I mean, we had always protected classes

682
00:36:25.440 --> 00:36:27.760
<v Speaker 1>that I think were in violation of both the Civil

683
00:36:27.840 --> 00:36:30.599
<v Speaker 1>Rights Act and the Fourteenth Amendment. But it carried on anyway,

684
00:36:31.159 --> 00:36:33.280
<v Speaker 1>and by the way, Congress changed the law so Mary

685
00:36:33.360 --> 00:36:35.400
<v Speaker 1>Francis Berry could keep her job in the Civil Rights

686
00:36:35.440 --> 00:36:38.480
<v Speaker 1>Commission and torment US for another decade. So anyway, it

687
00:36:38.480 --> 00:36:41.519
<v Speaker 1>seems to me that in this decision written by Katanji

688
00:36:41.599 --> 00:36:45.199
<v Speaker 1>Brown Jackson that said essentially, no, actually the text means

689
00:36:45.199 --> 00:36:48.719
<v Speaker 1>what it says, a civil rights attached to individuals, and

690
00:36:48.800 --> 00:36:53.880
<v Speaker 1>therefore ms Aimes has the right to proceed to have

691
00:36:54.000 --> 00:36:56.480
<v Speaker 1>her case heard in court. That she's been discriminated against

692
00:36:56.679 --> 00:36:59.800
<v Speaker 1>in violation of Title seven. And so, I mean, I

693
00:37:00.039 --> 00:37:03.400
<v Speaker 1>think that's hugely significant, not only that the court has

694
00:37:03.440 --> 00:37:08.199
<v Speaker 1>spoken unanimously, but that Jackson is the one who wrote

695
00:37:08.199 --> 00:37:10.480
<v Speaker 1>the opinion here. And I know we can say more,

696
00:37:10.480 --> 00:37:12.559
<v Speaker 1>and I think, Lucreatia, you want to bring in again

697
00:37:12.719 --> 00:37:15.679
<v Speaker 1>Justice Thomas's greater clarity on the matter. But I'm bold

698
00:37:15.880 --> 00:37:19.000
<v Speaker 1>by this, but I think this is an absolutely huge

699
00:37:19.039 --> 00:37:21.199
<v Speaker 1>defeat for the left. And I've got to think that

700
00:37:21.360 --> 00:37:24.039
<v Speaker 1>law professors, leftist law professors, which as most of them

701
00:37:24.079 --> 00:37:26.480
<v Speaker 1>are right now going out of their minds in their

702
00:37:26.519 --> 00:37:27.599
<v Speaker 1>offices on law schools.

703
00:37:27.679 --> 00:37:32.719
<v Speaker 2>John, I mean, I can't believe that the law was otherwise,

704
00:37:33.320 --> 00:37:36.559
<v Speaker 2>that there were all these courts, circuit courts that were

705
00:37:36.719 --> 00:37:39.480
<v Speaker 2>enforcing a hot what we call higher pleading standard that

706
00:37:39.960 --> 00:37:42.480
<v Speaker 2>if you wanted to file what's called a reverse allegedly

707
00:37:42.519 --> 00:37:44.679
<v Speaker 2>called a reverse discrimination claim. You have to have more

708
00:37:44.719 --> 00:37:49.000
<v Speaker 2>proof than if you were filing a non reverse discrimination clip,

709
00:37:49.119 --> 00:37:51.360
<v Speaker 2>just like if you are from a minority. And so

710
00:37:51.440 --> 00:37:53.639
<v Speaker 2>there's a lot of problems with this. The first one

711
00:37:53.679 --> 00:37:56.760
<v Speaker 2>is the statute doesn't say anything about this. It just

712
00:37:56.760 --> 00:37:59.760
<v Speaker 2>says if you are discriminated against based on your rasearch

713
00:38:00.079 --> 00:38:02.559
<v Speaker 2>during national art, you can bring a Title seven seat.

714
00:38:02.559 --> 00:38:05.239
<v Speaker 2>It doesn't say anything about you being a part of

715
00:38:05.239 --> 00:38:08.480
<v Speaker 2>a group. And I think that's the most important message,

716
00:38:08.679 --> 00:38:11.920
<v Speaker 2>is that I think the left has always wanted us

717
00:38:11.960 --> 00:38:14.480
<v Speaker 2>to be treated as members of groups, and what's important

718
00:38:14.559 --> 00:38:17.480
<v Speaker 2>is how the group was treated, and Title seven doesn't

719
00:38:17.480 --> 00:38:20.400
<v Speaker 2>do that. Title seven makes it an individual right. And

720
00:38:20.920 --> 00:38:22.559
<v Speaker 2>I totally agree with you, Steve. I think it's a

721
00:38:22.599 --> 00:38:27.039
<v Speaker 2>sign of how much these appointments to the Supreme Court

722
00:38:27.079 --> 00:38:30.519
<v Speaker 2>of originalists and conservatives have changed the dialogue at the

723
00:38:30.559 --> 00:38:34.199
<v Speaker 2>Supreme Court that you can't plausibly make that claim anymore

724
00:38:35.119 --> 00:38:37.119
<v Speaker 2>with a straight face. And so what you have to

725
00:38:37.119 --> 00:38:39.800
<v Speaker 2>do if you're liberal is speak in the language of

726
00:38:40.400 --> 00:38:43.840
<v Speaker 2>and in the doctrine of conservatives, and that's going to

727
00:38:43.880 --> 00:38:47.480
<v Speaker 2>mean sometimes you can't escape the conclusion that Title seven

728
00:38:47.519 --> 00:38:51.159
<v Speaker 2>does not protect groups. The other thing that's interesting, and conservatives,

729
00:38:51.159 --> 00:38:53.400
<v Speaker 2>I think, actually going to have different views about this

730
00:38:53.480 --> 00:38:56.199
<v Speaker 2>now that the courts are becoming more friendly to these

731
00:38:56.280 --> 00:39:00.199
<v Speaker 2>kinds of lawsuits. This is not such a case. But

732
00:39:00.360 --> 00:39:02.960
<v Speaker 2>Title seven does allow you to sue based on what's

733
00:39:02.960 --> 00:39:06.440
<v Speaker 2>called disparate impact, and we hate desperate impact, right, that's

734
00:39:06.480 --> 00:39:10.119
<v Speaker 2>the idea of the population has, say twenty percent Asians,

735
00:39:10.639 --> 00:39:13.880
<v Speaker 2>but there's only ten percent Asians in the who actually

736
00:39:13.920 --> 00:39:16.639
<v Speaker 2>have the jobs. Therefore, I can get into court and

737
00:39:16.679 --> 00:39:19.480
<v Speaker 2>claim illegal discrimination, and then the burden is up to

738
00:39:19.519 --> 00:39:23.159
<v Speaker 2>the government to show that they're not being racist. And

739
00:39:23.199 --> 00:39:26.880
<v Speaker 2>I think conservatives long used to think this properly, so

740
00:39:26.960 --> 00:39:30.519
<v Speaker 2>I think was misreading of Title seven and potentially unconstitutional.

741
00:39:31.119 --> 00:39:34.239
<v Speaker 2>But now that the institutional institutions are controlled by the

742
00:39:34.320 --> 00:39:38.639
<v Speaker 2>left right and the left are very good at concealing,

743
00:39:38.639 --> 00:39:41.800
<v Speaker 2>for example, that they're pursuing racial quotas when they do

744
00:39:41.840 --> 00:39:45.760
<v Speaker 2>faculty hiring, for example, Disparate impact actually would be much

745
00:39:45.800 --> 00:39:49.000
<v Speaker 2>more friendly weapon to conservatives now to try to stop

746
00:39:49.400 --> 00:39:52.960
<v Speaker 2>institutions like Harvard from discriminating based on race but hiding

747
00:39:53.000 --> 00:39:57.480
<v Speaker 2>it really well. So I feel like this case is,

748
00:39:57.519 --> 00:39:58.920
<v Speaker 2>you know, is going to get us down the road

749
00:39:58.920 --> 00:40:02.079
<v Speaker 2>to getting rid of disparate impac but disparate impact would

750
00:40:02.079 --> 00:40:04.679
<v Speaker 2>actually be of enormous service to conservatives right now.

751
00:40:05.760 --> 00:40:08.360
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I'm not sure that. Yeah, go ahead.

752
00:40:08.440 --> 00:40:12.159
<v Speaker 3>Well that's a really interesting concept. But I think let

753
00:40:12.159 --> 00:40:18.159
<v Speaker 3>me address that first. I think, John, the greater motivating

754
00:40:18.320 --> 00:40:22.079
<v Speaker 3>force in this is actually what's considered acceptable first by

755
00:40:22.119 --> 00:40:25.440
<v Speaker 3>the legal community, the high level legal community, and then

756
00:40:25.800 --> 00:40:31.320
<v Speaker 3>the broader public. The reason that disparate impact is problematic

757
00:40:31.440 --> 00:40:34.480
<v Speaker 3>is because in fact, in fact does treat people as

758
00:40:34.679 --> 00:40:40.679
<v Speaker 3>members of groups, the immutable characteristics of their their personhood

759
00:40:40.679 --> 00:40:42.800
<v Speaker 3>that they don't control, and that really should make no

760
00:40:42.840 --> 00:40:47.960
<v Speaker 3>difference whatsoever. So you're right, you know, these many years,

761
00:40:47.960 --> 00:40:51.199
<v Speaker 3>we've come to accept the fact that Harvard can discriminate

762
00:40:51.199 --> 00:40:54.960
<v Speaker 3>against Asians and whites because otherwise their entire student body

763
00:40:54.960 --> 00:40:57.599
<v Speaker 3>would be made up of Asians because they do their homework.

764
00:40:59.480 --> 00:41:02.039
<v Speaker 5>It's but it's a bigger thing.

765
00:41:02.159 --> 00:41:05.920
<v Speaker 3>I think, John, that people are starting to question that

766
00:41:06.239 --> 00:41:11.639
<v Speaker 3>pulls show that the average person doesn't support the idea

767
00:41:11.639 --> 00:41:15.159
<v Speaker 3>of affirmative action based upon race, and so I think

768
00:41:15.199 --> 00:41:17.199
<v Speaker 3>that a better way to do it is not to

769
00:41:17.360 --> 00:41:20.599
<v Speaker 3>embrace because this is what I always said about affirmative action.

770
00:41:20.760 --> 00:41:25.960
<v Speaker 3>Not to embrace a flawed principle of jurisprudence, the idea

771
00:41:26.039 --> 00:41:28.960
<v Speaker 3>that we count the people based upon race to prove

772
00:41:29.000 --> 00:41:32.400
<v Speaker 3>that there is or is not discrimination, but instead returns

773
00:41:32.440 --> 00:41:35.079
<v Speaker 3>to the idea of a colorblind constitution, and a person

774
00:41:35.119 --> 00:41:39.719
<v Speaker 3>should be judged on the basis of merit and their

775
00:41:39.800 --> 00:41:42.159
<v Speaker 3>character and so on. I know that's more difficult. It's

776
00:41:42.239 --> 00:41:44.360
<v Speaker 3>a lot easier to say there's not enough of this

777
00:41:44.559 --> 00:41:47.199
<v Speaker 3>race or that race, or females versus males, whatever it

778
00:41:47.280 --> 00:41:47.559
<v Speaker 3>might be.

779
00:41:48.199 --> 00:41:50.440
<v Speaker 5>Anyway, that's my belief.

780
00:41:51.719 --> 00:41:56.800
<v Speaker 3>It was the change in you know, it was the

781
00:41:56.800 --> 00:41:59.280
<v Speaker 3>the propaganda that said, oh, well, we can't wait for

782
00:41:59.360 --> 00:42:02.079
<v Speaker 3>that to happen. We have to, you know, for the

783
00:42:02.119 --> 00:42:05.840
<v Speaker 3>next however many years, Justice Sandra Dale O'Connor, we have

784
00:42:05.920 --> 00:42:09.119
<v Speaker 3>to make up for racial discrimination with a different kind

785
00:42:09.159 --> 00:42:10.760
<v Speaker 3>of racial discrimination.

786
00:42:10.239 --> 00:42:11.119
<v Speaker 5>And then we'll end it.

787
00:42:11.480 --> 00:42:11.639
<v Speaker 2>Now.

788
00:42:11.679 --> 00:42:14.000
<v Speaker 3>I don't think that they expected it to end this way,

789
00:42:14.079 --> 00:42:15.679
<v Speaker 3>but I do think I agree with you, this is

790
00:42:15.679 --> 00:42:18.800
<v Speaker 3>the end of it. The other thing that's important I

791
00:42:18.840 --> 00:42:21.639
<v Speaker 3>think to on this case, on the Ames case, so

792
00:42:22.199 --> 00:42:27.719
<v Speaker 3>it does deal with sexual identity, gender identity. I guess

793
00:42:27.760 --> 00:42:29.239
<v Speaker 3>you're supposed to say, but I'm going to call it

794
00:42:29.280 --> 00:42:32.800
<v Speaker 3>sexual identity in this case a woman was discriminated against

795
00:42:32.840 --> 00:42:35.360
<v Speaker 3>by a boss. It doesn't actually say that in the case,

796
00:42:35.400 --> 00:42:36.880
<v Speaker 3>but that's an important fact.

797
00:42:37.239 --> 00:42:38.519
<v Speaker 5>The boss was gay.

798
00:42:38.760 --> 00:42:41.280
<v Speaker 3>And refused, you know, this woman was straight, and so

799
00:42:41.360 --> 00:42:46.320
<v Speaker 3>she kept getting either not getting a promotion, actually demoted.

800
00:42:46.960 --> 00:42:47.880
<v Speaker 5>And the court said.

801
00:42:49.239 --> 00:42:52.440
<v Speaker 3>What happened in Ohio is that the courts in Ohio

802
00:42:52.519 --> 00:42:58.119
<v Speaker 3>said she has to prove background circumstances because she's a

803
00:42:58.119 --> 00:43:03.239
<v Speaker 3>member of a majority. That is a higher standard than

804
00:43:03.280 --> 00:43:06.760
<v Speaker 3>somebody would have to prove if say they were African

805
00:43:06.800 --> 00:43:11.559
<v Speaker 3>American or what have you. And that you're right, it's

806
00:43:11.599 --> 00:43:14.000
<v Speaker 3>not in Title seven. It's not you know, it's not.

807
00:43:14.039 --> 00:43:15.599
<v Speaker 5>In the civil rights law anywhere.

808
00:43:16.079 --> 00:43:21.639
<v Speaker 3>But the treatment of one race versus another differently that

809
00:43:22.079 --> 00:43:26.599
<v Speaker 3>even even Katangi recognized that what I've said all along,

810
00:43:26.920 --> 00:43:31.320
<v Speaker 3>why don't you, why don't you do favors based upon race,

811
00:43:31.840 --> 00:43:34.760
<v Speaker 3>Why don't you favor this group versus that group, because

812
00:43:34.960 --> 00:43:37.320
<v Speaker 3>sooner or later it can get turned around against you.

813
00:43:37.920 --> 00:43:41.360
<v Speaker 3>And that was Lincoln's argument, right, that was Abraham Lincoln's

814
00:43:41.400 --> 00:43:45.039
<v Speaker 3>argument against slavery. Any argument that you make for why

815
00:43:45.079 --> 00:43:48.119
<v Speaker 3>this Persian should be a slave can be made against you.

816
00:43:48.559 --> 00:43:52.280
<v Speaker 3>And maybe, just maybe Katangi is smart enough to figure

817
00:43:52.320 --> 00:43:56.119
<v Speaker 3>that out. I doubt it, but hey, maybe your clerks were.

818
00:44:01.800 --> 00:44:03.599
<v Speaker 1>No. No, I'm right with you on all of that.

819
00:44:04.400 --> 00:44:06.800
<v Speaker 2>No, I mean there's I mean, remember conservatives a long

820
00:44:06.880 --> 00:44:11.119
<v Speaker 2>time ago didn't favor Title seven, right, If I remember

821
00:44:11.119 --> 00:44:14.119
<v Speaker 2>Barry Goldwater opposed Title seven.

822
00:44:14.320 --> 00:44:16.400
<v Speaker 1>And that was the only that was the only reason

823
00:44:16.400 --> 00:44:18.679
<v Speaker 1>the opposed the Civil Rights Act was just Title seven.

824
00:44:18.679 --> 00:44:20.079
<v Speaker 1>They said he was fine with the rest of me.

825
00:44:20.880 --> 00:44:24.719
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And because the Title seven is about the federal

826
00:44:24.719 --> 00:44:28.519
<v Speaker 2>government expanding its regulations to tell private businesses how to operate.

827
00:44:29.000 --> 00:44:31.440
<v Speaker 2>And this is the other ironic thing about all these

828
00:44:31.559 --> 00:44:35.360
<v Speaker 2>race issues is that the left probably might regret that

829
00:44:35.440 --> 00:44:37.320
<v Speaker 2>because now that they're in charge of things, they might

830
00:44:37.400 --> 00:44:40.960
<v Speaker 2>like to discriminate basis on race to hit their racial quotas. Right,

831
00:44:41.000 --> 00:44:42.880
<v Speaker 2>They're they're the ones we're going to actually be really

832
00:44:42.920 --> 00:44:47.840
<v Speaker 2>hamstrong I think by Title seven going forward, especially because

833
00:44:47.880 --> 00:44:51.719
<v Speaker 2>of decisions like this. And there's always been this argument

834
00:44:51.760 --> 00:44:55.159
<v Speaker 2>from economists who say that racial discrimination is inefficient and

835
00:44:55.159 --> 00:44:57.599
<v Speaker 2>that if you let the market alone and the state

836
00:44:57.639 --> 00:45:00.639
<v Speaker 2>didn't try to intervene that, right, if you if a

837
00:45:00.760 --> 00:45:05.679
<v Speaker 2>business wants to go ahead and discriminate against highly qualified

838
00:45:06.039 --> 00:45:08.880
<v Speaker 2>women or blocks and they will move to other companies

839
00:45:08.880 --> 00:45:11.719
<v Speaker 2>that don't discriminate, and those companies will have an advantage.

840
00:45:12.320 --> 00:45:16.719
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Gary Becker's famous lifelong work, right, yeah, yeah.

841
00:45:16.960 --> 00:45:20.840
<v Speaker 3>Or my argument against why it is that the whole

842
00:45:20.920 --> 00:45:24.320
<v Speaker 3>scam about women get paid seventy seven cents on the dollar.

843
00:45:24.920 --> 00:45:27.679
<v Speaker 3>You know, if that were the case, as an employer,

844
00:45:27.719 --> 00:45:30.239
<v Speaker 3>you would be an idiot not to hire anything but women.

845
00:45:30.400 --> 00:45:34.079
<v Speaker 1>Right of course, Right, that's all sort of preposterous stuff.

846
00:45:34.239 --> 00:45:37.719
<v Speaker 1>It's right. But now step back in on the politics

847
00:45:37.719 --> 00:45:42.360
<v Speaker 1>of this, John Men, what I'm about to say if

848
00:45:42.400 --> 00:45:44.800
<v Speaker 1>I don't have the right balance here. But it's the

849
00:45:44.880 --> 00:45:48.000
<v Speaker 1>usual practice of the court as I gather that every

850
00:45:48.039 --> 00:45:52.039
<v Speaker 1>month or whatever for period you're in, they parcel out

851
00:45:52.159 --> 00:45:55.199
<v Speaker 1>who gets to write the majority opinions in the cases

852
00:45:55.239 --> 00:45:57.039
<v Speaker 1>that are coming out that month, and this is spread

853
00:45:57.039 --> 00:46:00.239
<v Speaker 1>it around to everybody. And when you see the three

854
00:46:00.280 --> 00:46:03.320
<v Speaker 1>liberal Wibben writing these unanimous opinions, it tells me that

855
00:46:03.360 --> 00:46:05.239
<v Speaker 1>they are not writing the opinions for some of the

856
00:46:05.280 --> 00:46:08.519
<v Speaker 1>cases still to come, most especially this scrimtty case on

857
00:46:08.599 --> 00:46:12.320
<v Speaker 1>the transgender medicine in Tennessee. What are other some of

858
00:46:12.320 --> 00:46:15.360
<v Speaker 1>the other big cases where it's unlikely that the liberal

859
00:46:15.480 --> 00:46:18.559
<v Speaker 1>side is going to win probably a split court. Uh,

860
00:46:18.599 --> 00:46:20.719
<v Speaker 1>and so we can expect opinions from what you know,

861
00:46:20.800 --> 00:46:24.199
<v Speaker 1>Thomas and Corsets and Roberts and uh, well you know

862
00:46:24.280 --> 00:46:28.199
<v Speaker 1>the other Alito, right, yeah, And I don't know. I

863
00:46:28.320 --> 00:46:30.880
<v Speaker 1>just I'm thinking, gosh, that's kind of interesting that they

864
00:46:30.960 --> 00:46:33.519
<v Speaker 1>got these three unanimous, because otherwise they won't have any

865
00:46:33.519 --> 00:46:36.000
<v Speaker 1>opinions to write if they're in the minority of the

866
00:46:36.079 --> 00:46:39.880
<v Speaker 1>upcoming cases. Right? Is that completely crazy? Am I overstating?

867
00:46:40.039 --> 00:46:42.679
<v Speaker 2>I was listening to you, Steve, because the lucretious guy

868
00:46:42.679 --> 00:46:44.719
<v Speaker 2>a cat now, and I'm like, she brought the damn

869
00:46:44.800 --> 00:46:50.000
<v Speaker 2>cat to Alaska.

870
00:46:46.599 --> 00:46:54.800
<v Speaker 5>It's actually this morning of the Moose.

871
00:46:55.280 --> 00:46:57.559
<v Speaker 3>The reason it's fuzzy at the beginning is she was

872
00:46:57.639 --> 00:46:59.800
<v Speaker 3>mad I was paying attention to the moose and not her,

873
00:46:59.840 --> 00:47:03.679
<v Speaker 3>so she bumped my arm and that's why it's all shaky.

874
00:47:04.480 --> 00:47:06.440
<v Speaker 2>Throw the cat out door so it can commune with

875
00:47:06.440 --> 00:47:11.199
<v Speaker 2>the moose. Yeah, so, Steve, this is interesting. And actually

876
00:47:11.239 --> 00:47:14.400
<v Speaker 2>there are people who track this and post it online.

877
00:47:14.480 --> 00:47:18.360
<v Speaker 2>So the practice is that you know, they have every

878
00:47:18.400 --> 00:47:21.719
<v Speaker 2>month a certain number of oil arguments, and the Chief Justice,

879
00:47:21.719 --> 00:47:25.079
<v Speaker 2>when he's in the majority, assigns the opinions and basically

880
00:47:25.159 --> 00:47:27.400
<v Speaker 2>half the opinions every year, close to half the opinions

881
00:47:27.440 --> 00:47:31.320
<v Speaker 2>every year are usually unanimous, So the Chief Justice tries

882
00:47:31.360 --> 00:47:35.320
<v Speaker 2>to give an equal right workload to each justice. So

883
00:47:35.320 --> 00:47:39.239
<v Speaker 2>you're right, Steve, if you see liberal justices writing unanimous

884
00:47:39.239 --> 00:47:43.719
<v Speaker 2>opinions in June, that means they're not writing the majority

885
00:47:43.760 --> 00:47:47.360
<v Speaker 2>opinions and the contentious cases. And I think actually someone

886
00:47:47.400 --> 00:47:51.320
<v Speaker 2>looked up and saw that from the same months where

887
00:47:51.320 --> 00:47:53.599
<v Speaker 2>you have those opinions, the cases you're talking about, the

888
00:47:53.679 --> 00:47:56.719
<v Speaker 2>ones we really want to see, like the ban on

889
00:47:58.639 --> 00:48:02.079
<v Speaker 2>gender transition surgery for miners out of tennessee the scur

890
00:48:02.159 --> 00:48:05.079
<v Speaker 2>Metic case. He said, it looks like the only justice

891
00:48:05.079 --> 00:48:07.079
<v Speaker 2>that doesn't have an opinion from the month that was

892
00:48:07.199 --> 00:48:10.559
<v Speaker 2>argued is Chief Justice Roberts. So I don't know which

893
00:48:10.559 --> 00:48:12.199
<v Speaker 2>way you think that's going to come out. I think

894
00:48:12.599 --> 00:48:15.760
<v Speaker 2>appreciative thinks that's a big win for the transgender community,

895
00:48:15.760 --> 00:48:18.719
<v Speaker 2>But I actually think Chief Justice Roberts would actually write

896
00:48:18.760 --> 00:48:22.480
<v Speaker 2>an opinion saying that states are allowed on the grounds

897
00:48:22.480 --> 00:48:25.639
<v Speaker 2>of public health to forbid such operations in trum right.

898
00:48:25.880 --> 00:48:29.840
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I mean, of all my nasty comments I make

899
00:48:29.880 --> 00:48:31.920
<v Speaker 3>about the dred coward Roberts.

900
00:48:32.000 --> 00:48:35.360
<v Speaker 5>He is a decent human being. He's screwed up about

901
00:48:35.360 --> 00:48:37.480
<v Speaker 5>a lot of things. But I don't know.

902
00:48:38.039 --> 00:48:40.880
<v Speaker 3>Any decent human being that could look at the situation

903
00:48:41.639 --> 00:48:50.880
<v Speaker 3>with opening the doors of female everything too despicable transgender.

904
00:48:52.760 --> 00:48:53.920
<v Speaker 5>The motives of those.

905
00:48:53.800 --> 00:48:58.960
<v Speaker 3>People are so suspect. The damage that they do is

906
00:48:59.039 --> 00:49:03.599
<v Speaker 3>so great. Even even John Roberts can't can't decide.

907
00:49:03.599 --> 00:49:06.360
<v Speaker 5>I agree with you. I think he's gonna goa thing is.

908
00:49:06.519 --> 00:49:08.960
<v Speaker 2>I don't think it's gonna be a unanimous decision. That's

909
00:49:08.960 --> 00:49:11.960
<v Speaker 2>what's scary about it, right, Probably because it's it's been

910
00:49:12.000 --> 00:49:14.840
<v Speaker 2>a while now and you're seeing unanimous opinions from that

911
00:49:14.920 --> 00:49:16.880
<v Speaker 2>month come out. Almost all of them, I believe, are

912
00:49:16.920 --> 00:49:20.559
<v Speaker 2>out now. Actually there's probably it's getting late because there's

913
00:49:20.599 --> 00:49:23.760
<v Speaker 2>probably significant long descents about that, which is, you know,

914
00:49:23.840 --> 00:49:26.159
<v Speaker 2>shocking to lucretia. I think for good reason. I think

915
00:49:26.239 --> 00:49:28.559
<v Speaker 2>that's you know, that's the way they're gonna be. I'm

916
00:49:28.559 --> 00:49:32.159
<v Speaker 2>sure they're gonna be, you know, dissent saying, oh, the

917
00:49:32.440 --> 00:49:35.519
<v Speaker 2>enlightened medical opinion is that we should allow these kinds

918
00:49:35.559 --> 00:49:38.559
<v Speaker 2>of surgeries and so on and so forth, And you're

919
00:49:38.599 --> 00:49:42.079
<v Speaker 2>discriminating against the protected class, you know, Steve said, you know,

920
00:49:42.119 --> 00:49:44.639
<v Speaker 2>the courts have been recognizing all these protected classes which

921
00:49:44.639 --> 00:49:47.480
<v Speaker 2>are not protected classes. And if there was one that

922
00:49:47.559 --> 00:49:49.679
<v Speaker 2>you would think would definitely not be a protected class

923
00:49:49.719 --> 00:49:52.519
<v Speaker 2>based on the founding and the time of the writing

924
00:49:52.559 --> 00:49:55.679
<v Speaker 2>the fourteenth Amendment, it would be right transgender.

925
00:49:56.280 --> 00:49:58.360
<v Speaker 1>Right, we're gonna hear I'm sure we're gonna hear the

926
00:49:58.360 --> 00:50:00.719
<v Speaker 1>wailing and gnashing if the case comes out as we expect.

927
00:50:00.880 --> 00:50:03.039
<v Speaker 1>We're gonna hear the wailing and gnashing of teeth. That

928
00:50:03.440 --> 00:50:05.599
<v Speaker 1>more people will die from this than died from the

929
00:50:05.679 --> 00:50:07.159
<v Speaker 1>end of net neutrality.

930
00:50:09.559 --> 00:50:11.519
<v Speaker 2>People say that I forgot that.

931
00:50:11.559 --> 00:50:12.760
<v Speaker 1>People it was ridiculous.

932
00:50:12.760 --> 00:50:15.519
<v Speaker 2>People said, the most hysterical said people would die from

933
00:50:15.559 --> 00:50:18.119
<v Speaker 2>that because of no because you were allowed to charge

934
00:50:18.159 --> 00:50:19.400
<v Speaker 2>for a surface.

935
00:50:19.639 --> 00:50:20.280
<v Speaker 1>Something like that.

936
00:50:20.440 --> 00:50:22.559
<v Speaker 2>And you know the first how many people did at

937
00:50:22.639 --> 00:50:26.199
<v Speaker 2>and t kill by charging for long distance over one

938
00:50:26.239 --> 00:50:28.480
<v Speaker 2>hundred years, millions and millions.

939
00:50:28.679 --> 00:50:32.559
<v Speaker 1>But speaking of being shocked, I mean Lucretia today not

940
00:50:32.599 --> 00:50:35.519
<v Speaker 1>only just said nice things about Chief Justice robertsononuted to go.

941
00:50:36.360 --> 00:50:39.000
<v Speaker 1>She said nice things half an hour ago about Kareem

942
00:50:39.079 --> 00:50:43.440
<v Speaker 1>John Pierre. I mean she might I think that, I know,

943
00:50:43.760 --> 00:50:46.239
<v Speaker 1>I think this Alaskan air must be uh, you know,

944
00:50:46.320 --> 00:50:47.440
<v Speaker 1>altering her mood.

945
00:50:47.239 --> 00:50:50.159
<v Speaker 2>Or something, and unlike you, Steve, she didn't dress up

946
00:50:50.199 --> 00:50:53.440
<v Speaker 2>as a teletubby or whatever that outfit was that you had,

947
00:50:54.719 --> 00:50:57.480
<v Speaker 2>that had the michelin Man outfit where you can only

948
00:50:57.559 --> 00:51:00.679
<v Speaker 2>see like your little coin could see your face surrounded,

949
00:51:00.760 --> 00:51:04.239
<v Speaker 2>your whole thing body was surrounded by this plump rubber

950
00:51:04.960 --> 00:51:07.719
<v Speaker 2>like the micheline Man. Why I asked you that question,

951
00:51:07.920 --> 00:51:09.920
<v Speaker 2>Why did you have to wear that kind of clothing.

952
00:51:10.000 --> 00:51:13.480
<v Speaker 2>It's it's June, you used to. It's still that cold

953
00:51:13.559 --> 00:51:14.880
<v Speaker 2>up where you are that you have to see. You

954
00:51:14.920 --> 00:51:15.760
<v Speaker 2>have to wear that mouth.

955
00:51:16.360 --> 00:51:19.440
<v Speaker 1>It's still under forty degrees. It was snowing late in

956
00:51:19.480 --> 00:51:22.239
<v Speaker 1>the afternoon yesterday when I did that, or two days ago,

957
00:51:22.360 --> 00:51:26.559
<v Speaker 1>and you know wind can come up suddenly anyway.

958
00:51:26.960 --> 00:51:29.119
<v Speaker 2>For some reason, I saw you wearing that, and I

959
00:51:29.159 --> 00:51:31.880
<v Speaker 2>was like, I wish a student would sometimes dress like

960
00:51:31.920 --> 00:51:34.480
<v Speaker 2>that to class. You know, you might remember, Steve, we

961
00:51:34.519 --> 00:51:37.320
<v Speaker 2>had a class where this you know, two hundred and

962
00:51:37.360 --> 00:51:40.920
<v Speaker 2>fifty pound hairy man would wear a woman's negligee. Remember

963
00:51:40.960 --> 00:51:45.760
<v Speaker 2>this guy to our seminar on natural wall. Yeah, And

964
00:51:45.800 --> 00:51:47.599
<v Speaker 2>I was like, how come no one ever wears like

965
00:51:47.639 --> 00:51:50.440
<v Speaker 2>a polar explorer outfit the class? Why is it always

966
00:51:50.519 --> 00:51:53.639
<v Speaker 2>two hundred and fifty pounds, men are wearing women's women's underwear.

967
00:51:54.199 --> 00:51:56.880
<v Speaker 2>What's going on? Why isn't there any balance to the world?

968
00:51:57.960 --> 00:52:05.159
<v Speaker 1>Right, here's a lot Wait, hold on, before you kick

969
00:52:05.280 --> 00:52:05.559
<v Speaker 1>me off.

970
00:52:05.599 --> 00:52:07.559
<v Speaker 3>I did want to just bring up one thing from

971
00:52:08.199 --> 00:52:10.079
<v Speaker 3>Thomas's concurrence, Steve.

972
00:52:10.440 --> 00:52:11.360
<v Speaker 1>I knew you were going to do that.

973
00:52:11.400 --> 00:52:14.280
<v Speaker 5>Go ahead, I'll make it quick, and I think we

974
00:52:14.360 --> 00:52:17.920
<v Speaker 5>can take it up another day. But this is my

975
00:52:19.000 --> 00:52:19.679
<v Speaker 5>this is my.

976
00:52:20.000 --> 00:52:26.199
<v Speaker 3>Actual deepest opinion about Supreme Court, actually about judicial interpretation altogether.

977
00:52:27.159 --> 00:52:29.599
<v Speaker 5>Where Justice Thomas in the Aims.

978
00:52:29.400 --> 00:52:33.880
<v Speaker 3>Case, that's the the you know, sexual identity discrimination case,

979
00:52:34.519 --> 00:52:38.480
<v Speaker 3>says in his concurrence, he writes separately to highlight the

980
00:52:38.519 --> 00:52:43.519
<v Speaker 3>problems that arise when judges create a textual legal rules

981
00:52:43.599 --> 00:52:48.840
<v Speaker 3>and frameworks. Judge made doctrines have a tendency to distort

982
00:52:49.400 --> 00:52:54.320
<v Speaker 3>the underlying statutory text, impose unnecessary burdens on litigants, and

983
00:52:54.400 --> 00:52:57.079
<v Speaker 3>cause confusion for the courts. And he then goes on

984
00:52:57.119 --> 00:53:00.840
<v Speaker 3>to explain why these the things that the Court overturned

985
00:53:00.840 --> 00:53:05.039
<v Speaker 3>in the case are exactly examples of these a textual

986
00:53:05.119 --> 00:53:09.079
<v Speaker 3>legal rules and judge made doctrines. But I absolutely agree

987
00:53:09.079 --> 00:53:11.599
<v Speaker 3>with that John and I just want to know, because

988
00:53:11.599 --> 00:53:13.679
<v Speaker 3>you're the one who throws at me sometimes. Yeah, but

989
00:53:13.679 --> 00:53:15.800
<v Speaker 3>the court has this doctrine and it has to follow

990
00:53:15.800 --> 00:53:20.760
<v Speaker 3>this doctrine, isn't aren't those doctrines, those legal doctrines simultaneously

991
00:53:20.880 --> 00:53:25.440
<v Speaker 3>too inclusive and too exclusive and cause them to fail

992
00:53:25.519 --> 00:53:27.320
<v Speaker 3>to read the Constitution.

993
00:53:26.800 --> 00:53:29.360
<v Speaker 5>The way they should. Just a question for you.

994
00:53:31.360 --> 00:53:34.519
<v Speaker 2>So I think doctrine, whether it's good or not, depends

995
00:53:34.559 --> 00:53:37.679
<v Speaker 2>on whether the initial decision is based on the right grounds.

996
00:53:37.679 --> 00:53:41.119
<v Speaker 2>Because doctrine is just trying to take a decision and

997
00:53:41.400 --> 00:53:43.639
<v Speaker 2>creating a set of principles that you can apply in

998
00:53:43.679 --> 00:53:47.400
<v Speaker 2>the future without having to rethink the original case over

999
00:53:47.440 --> 00:53:51.719
<v Speaker 2>and over again. So sometimes they are very fact specific.

1000
00:53:51.800 --> 00:53:55.199
<v Speaker 2>So the example would be the Fourth Amendment says no

1001
00:53:55.320 --> 00:53:58.800
<v Speaker 2>unreasonable searches. So it's very hard to come up with

1002
00:53:58.840 --> 00:54:01.920
<v Speaker 2>a set doctrine right out of rules to how do

1003
00:54:02.000 --> 00:54:05.119
<v Speaker 2>you you know? Because there's always different fact factual situations

1004
00:54:05.119 --> 00:54:07.960
<v Speaker 2>for searches, right. So there, I think doctrine is not

1005
00:54:08.280 --> 00:54:11.320
<v Speaker 2>of much help. But like the case we're talking about

1006
00:54:11.320 --> 00:54:14.400
<v Speaker 2>today religion, if the court says, because of the way

1007
00:54:14.400 --> 00:54:19.559
<v Speaker 2>we understand the free exercise and establishing clauses, we don't

1008
00:54:19.559 --> 00:54:22.800
<v Speaker 2>think courts should look behind the religion to see how

1009
00:54:22.800 --> 00:54:26.400
<v Speaker 2>they organize themselves and pick and choose about what should

1010
00:54:26.480 --> 00:54:29.159
<v Speaker 2>be protected and what shouldn't be protected. There's going to

1011
00:54:29.199 --> 00:54:30.760
<v Speaker 2>be a doctrine that comes out of that which will

1012
00:54:30.800 --> 00:54:33.239
<v Speaker 2>probably be better than what we have before, because the

1013
00:54:33.280 --> 00:54:36.039
<v Speaker 2>initial decision was a good decision. So I think the

1014
00:54:36.119 --> 00:54:39.119
<v Speaker 2>really doctrine really caused, you know, whether it's helpful or

1015
00:54:39.159 --> 00:54:42.719
<v Speaker 2>not really really depends on what its origins were. I

1016
00:54:42.719 --> 00:54:45.679
<v Speaker 2>don't think doctrine itself is bad. It's just it's just

1017
00:54:45.719 --> 00:54:47.239
<v Speaker 2>the way I don't and I don't know if this

1018
00:54:47.320 --> 00:54:49.239
<v Speaker 2>is the way, you know, because there's church doctrine, which

1019
00:54:49.239 --> 00:54:51.440
<v Speaker 2>I don't know if it's similar. But I think doctrine

1020
00:54:51.519 --> 00:54:53.639
<v Speaker 2>is like a time saving device. It just sort of

1021
00:54:53.679 --> 00:54:56.760
<v Speaker 2>gives you instead of rethinking everything. Here's like the three

1022
00:54:56.840 --> 00:54:59.519
<v Speaker 2>rules that we try to use for the test because

1023
00:54:59.519 --> 00:55:02.400
<v Speaker 2>we're trying to to follow the Supreme Court's decision on

1024
00:55:02.440 --> 00:55:05.280
<v Speaker 2>this or that. But we can get into it in

1025
00:55:05.400 --> 00:55:09.280
<v Speaker 2>much greater detail because there's a deep dispute or divide

1026
00:55:09.360 --> 00:55:14.559
<v Speaker 2>or argument amongst conservative legal scholars about, you know, how

1027
00:55:14.559 --> 00:55:17.280
<v Speaker 2>we should try to formulate doctrine and enforce it. There's

1028
00:55:17.480 --> 00:55:21.320
<v Speaker 2>Justice Thomas does not think that doctrine should buying judges, right,

1029
00:55:21.400 --> 00:55:23.880
<v Speaker 2>you know, he thinks that your only oath is really

1030
00:55:23.920 --> 00:55:26.519
<v Speaker 2>to interpret the Constitution and apply it, not what other

1031
00:55:26.599 --> 00:55:29.599
<v Speaker 2>judges thought the Constitution meant, which has a sort of

1032
00:55:29.639 --> 00:55:32.119
<v Speaker 2>appealed to it. But you don't want lower court judges

1033
00:55:32.199 --> 00:55:35.519
<v Speaker 2>doing that. But yeah, the Justice Justice Thomas does not

1034
00:55:35.519 --> 00:55:38.679
<v Speaker 2>believe in starry decisives, so he probably you know, he

1035
00:55:38.719 --> 00:55:40.239
<v Speaker 2>would not think highly of doctrine.

1036
00:55:40.280 --> 00:55:43.159
<v Speaker 1>So it makes it well need or do liberal justices either,

1037
00:55:43.320 --> 00:55:45.320
<v Speaker 1>if we're being honest, right.

1038
00:55:45.480 --> 00:55:47.880
<v Speaker 2>Yes, oh right, yeah, the Warren Court didn't believe in

1039
00:55:47.960 --> 00:55:48.639
<v Speaker 2>doctrine either.

1040
00:55:49.880 --> 00:55:53.840
<v Speaker 1>Right. Well, once again I've lost complete control of the

1041
00:55:53.880 --> 00:55:56.800
<v Speaker 1>timeline of this episode because for the fifth.

1042
00:55:56.480 --> 00:55:59.760
<v Speaker 2>Way we talk about political theory. No, we've run out

1043
00:55:59.800 --> 00:56:02.599
<v Speaker 2>of I finally did the I did this sign readings

1044
00:56:02.639 --> 00:56:03.400
<v Speaker 2>for Christ's sake.

1045
00:56:04.199 --> 00:56:06.559
<v Speaker 3>Well, next week, John, maybe we should have a special

1046
00:56:06.599 --> 00:56:10.800
<v Speaker 3>episode where we we will not discuss politics.

1047
00:56:11.159 --> 00:56:13.400
<v Speaker 1>Here's what I'm gonna do, Here's here's.

1048
00:56:13.239 --> 00:56:17.320
<v Speaker 2>What the whole thing is about politics. Well, think all

1049
00:56:17.400 --> 00:56:19.599
<v Speaker 2>these readings were about politics.

1050
00:56:19.679 --> 00:56:21.920
<v Speaker 1>Just to remind readers and remind you guys why we

1051
00:56:22.000 --> 00:56:24.840
<v Speaker 1>keep saying we're going to do this is several weeks ago. John,

1052
00:56:25.320 --> 00:56:28.519
<v Speaker 1>you insulted both Lucretian and I gravely when you said, Hey,

1053
00:56:28.519 --> 00:56:31.679
<v Speaker 1>I thought you guys were political theorists, and that's like

1054
00:56:31.719 --> 00:56:33.599
<v Speaker 1>you might as well just call us pedophiles. I mean,

1055
00:56:33.599 --> 00:56:35.639
<v Speaker 1>that's the last thing we want to be as political theorists.

1056
00:56:36.079 --> 00:56:38.599
<v Speaker 2>I mean, from what I can tell, what you guys

1057
00:56:38.639 --> 00:56:40.559
<v Speaker 2>actually are whatever you want to have sex with old

1058
00:56:40.599 --> 00:56:43.519
<v Speaker 2>people because you're worshiping Plato and Aristotle. In the end,

1059
00:56:46.480 --> 00:56:48.519
<v Speaker 2>I don't know what the opposite of pedophile is.

1060
00:56:48.760 --> 00:56:50.480
<v Speaker 1>Well, what I think is we're going to start a

1061
00:56:50.519 --> 00:56:53.880
<v Speaker 1>regular series, a regular segment maybe regular called What's wrong

1062
00:56:53.920 --> 00:56:55.719
<v Speaker 1>with John Yu because this is one of those Let

1063
00:56:55.760 --> 00:56:57.960
<v Speaker 1>me just make two quick bullet points, and then what

1064
00:56:58.000 --> 00:56:59.159
<v Speaker 1>I want to do, By the way, I want to

1065
00:56:59.159 --> 00:57:01.239
<v Speaker 1>hear from a listener if they really do want to

1066
00:57:01.239 --> 00:57:03.079
<v Speaker 1>hear more about this, because this is what we.

1067
00:57:03.119 --> 00:57:05.400
<v Speaker 2>Want to post the readings online so that they.

1068
00:57:05.239 --> 00:57:08.320
<v Speaker 1>Can No, No, I didn't, ye, Well I could. I

1069
00:57:08.360 --> 00:57:10.079
<v Speaker 1>could do that. I could do a number of things.

1070
00:57:10.119 --> 00:57:12.360
<v Speaker 2>By the way, then our listenership will drop by eighty

1071
00:57:12.400 --> 00:57:12.920
<v Speaker 2>five percent.

1072
00:57:13.000 --> 00:57:14.920
<v Speaker 1>Well, this is what I'm wondering. I mean, you know,

1073
00:57:15.119 --> 00:57:18.159
<v Speaker 1>some people like some of our old political philosophy shows

1074
00:57:18.920 --> 00:57:20.800
<v Speaker 1>and you know we've moved on to sort of low

1075
00:57:20.960 --> 00:57:24.800
<v Speaker 1>current events a lot. And uh, look, I mean two

1076
00:57:24.840 --> 00:57:27.679
<v Speaker 1>basic distinctions which need explanation that I won't give today.

1077
00:57:28.159 --> 00:57:31.960
<v Speaker 1>The first is is that the difference between political philosophy

1078
00:57:32.000 --> 00:57:35.760
<v Speaker 1>and political theory can be put down to political philosophers

1079
00:57:35.800 --> 00:57:39.239
<v Speaker 1>ask what is, and most political theorists are about what

1080
00:57:39.360 --> 00:57:43.559
<v Speaker 1>should be. They're more utopian. Uh, they're not connected to reality.

1081
00:57:44.119 --> 00:57:46.039
<v Speaker 1>Another way of putting it is, what's the old joke

1082
00:57:46.039 --> 00:57:49.199
<v Speaker 1>about economists who see something working in practice and wonder

1083
00:57:49.199 --> 00:57:52.840
<v Speaker 1>if it will work in theory. Well, that's part of

1084
00:57:52.880 --> 00:57:55.199
<v Speaker 1>the divide here. I think you can.

1085
00:57:55.199 --> 00:57:57.559
<v Speaker 2>Tell a little joke about that that economists tell. It

1086
00:57:57.559 --> 00:57:59.559
<v Speaker 2>gives you the lost sense of why economists have no

1087
00:57:59.599 --> 00:58:03.360
<v Speaker 2>sense of humor. To economists walking down the street and

1088
00:58:03.360 --> 00:58:05.599
<v Speaker 2>then one says, hey, there's one hundred dollars bills on

1089
00:58:05.599 --> 00:58:07.400
<v Speaker 2>the ground, and the other one says it can't be

1090
00:58:07.440 --> 00:58:09.559
<v Speaker 2>there because someone would have picked it up already by now.

1091
00:58:09.679 --> 00:58:12.840
<v Speaker 1>Right. Yeah, that's the or the or the the variations

1092
00:58:12.840 --> 00:58:14.639
<v Speaker 1>of that one. Like you know, the economist and the

1093
00:58:14.639 --> 00:58:17.440
<v Speaker 1>engineer is stuck in a will, and the engineer says,

1094
00:58:17.480 --> 00:58:18.880
<v Speaker 1>if I had some rope and a few sticks, I

1095
00:58:18.880 --> 00:58:20.400
<v Speaker 1>could make us a ladder and get us out. And

1096
00:58:20.400 --> 00:58:23.920
<v Speaker 1>the economist says, oh, no problem, let's assume we have

1097
00:58:23.960 --> 00:58:27.679
<v Speaker 1>a ladder. Right, that's the way all the economics. But look,

1098
00:58:27.800 --> 00:58:31.079
<v Speaker 1>the more basic point is is that all political knowledge

1099
00:58:31.119 --> 00:58:36.199
<v Speaker 1>is practical knowledge and not theoretical knowledge. Again, that you

1100
00:58:36.280 --> 00:58:37.159
<v Speaker 1>have to spend some time.

1101
00:58:37.239 --> 00:58:39.719
<v Speaker 2>What the hell that makes no sense?

1102
00:58:40.480 --> 00:58:42.719
<v Speaker 1>Yes it does, you're I see, by the way, I

1103
00:58:42.760 --> 00:58:45.239
<v Speaker 1>calculated my memo about this in a way to a

1104
00:58:45.480 --> 00:58:48.559
<v Speaker 1>supremely annoyed Lucretia, even though she secretly agrees with me

1105
00:58:48.559 --> 00:58:49.039
<v Speaker 1>about all this.

1106
00:58:49.360 --> 00:58:52.119
<v Speaker 2>But you don't, no, no, no, what But you derive

1107
00:58:52.239 --> 00:58:55.199
<v Speaker 2>theory based from the evidence and experience? What do you

1108
00:58:55.280 --> 00:59:00.679
<v Speaker 2>I mean? There's no divide. Yes, there is theory and data.

1109
00:59:01.360 --> 00:59:04.239
<v Speaker 1>We're oh there you go. Now you open up that

1110
00:59:04.320 --> 00:59:05.519
<v Speaker 1>whole scientific revolution.

1111
00:59:05.880 --> 00:59:07.280
<v Speaker 2>It's going to drive you crazy.

1112
00:59:07.719 --> 00:59:12.000
<v Speaker 1>Oh god, it just gets worse and worse. All right, Lucretia,

1113
00:59:12.079 --> 00:59:13.960
<v Speaker 1>let's go to some Babylon bees and get out of

1114
00:59:13.960 --> 00:59:16.239
<v Speaker 1>this mess. And listeners, let us know if you want

1115
00:59:16.239 --> 00:59:18.639
<v Speaker 1>to hear us do a SmackDown with John uh will

1116
00:59:18.639 --> 00:59:21.519
<v Speaker 1>be a you know, three way argument on political theory.

1117
00:59:21.599 --> 00:59:24.800
<v Speaker 1>Versus political philosophy, and I will come with receipts and examples.

1118
00:59:25.239 --> 00:59:29.519
<v Speaker 3>Meanwhile, meanwhile, I know some people like this one. Hamas

1119
00:59:29.559 --> 00:59:32.960
<v Speaker 3>agrees to surrender if Europe takes Greta Thunberg back.

1120
00:59:34.119 --> 00:59:37.960
<v Speaker 2>Yes, right, because now can I ask questions? So she

1121
00:59:38.079 --> 00:59:40.639
<v Speaker 2>actually is on some boat trying to get into Gaza.

1122
00:59:40.960 --> 00:59:42.719
<v Speaker 2>What happened I saw when.

1123
00:59:42.599 --> 00:59:45.239
<v Speaker 1>That was still on the way. I think no, I

1124
00:59:45.239 --> 00:59:48.079
<v Speaker 1>think she's en route, you know. Oh, so she's like.

1125
00:59:48.039 --> 00:59:51.239
<v Speaker 2>A real global warmingist and like built like a like

1126
00:59:51.280 --> 00:59:54.159
<v Speaker 2>a Greek trirem that uses no electricity, and they're just

1127
00:59:54.239 --> 00:59:57.239
<v Speaker 2>rowing their way to Gaza from well wherever Norway or

1128
00:59:57.280 --> 00:59:58.239
<v Speaker 2>wherever she's from.

1129
00:59:58.760 --> 01:00:01.199
<v Speaker 1>Sweet it looks like about a sixty foot yacht, maybe

1130
01:00:01.239 --> 01:00:03.920
<v Speaker 1>seventy feet, but they say they're bringing relief supplies to gods.

1131
01:00:04.000 --> 01:00:05.719
<v Speaker 1>I think the Israeli should let her in because there's

1132
01:00:05.719 --> 01:00:07.199
<v Speaker 1>a blockade, right, but they should.

1133
01:00:07.239 --> 01:00:09.880
<v Speaker 2>Are you kidding? I think the Israeli should sub torpedo

1134
01:00:09.960 --> 01:00:11.800
<v Speaker 2>that sucker the minute it comes into Rings.

1135
01:00:11.800 --> 01:00:14.039
<v Speaker 1>All right, that's the other that would be good for

1136
01:00:14.079 --> 01:00:16.880
<v Speaker 1>the rest of us. But sorry, the Kritia welch, you guys, It's.

1137
01:00:16.840 --> 01:00:20.960
<v Speaker 3>Quite all right. Federal Judge Block's deportation of terrorist's family,

1138
01:00:21.480 --> 01:00:29.039
<v Speaker 3>or is Jews lit back on fire? Oh that's really bad.

1139
01:00:29.679 --> 01:00:33.840
<v Speaker 3>Republicans announced plan to keep doing opposite of what everyone

1140
01:00:33.960 --> 01:00:36.159
<v Speaker 3>voted for them to do. And is a picture of

1141
01:00:36.159 --> 01:00:41.840
<v Speaker 3>Mike Johnson of course us here's your here's yours? Steve

1142
01:00:42.280 --> 01:00:45.719
<v Speaker 3>us Harvey Milk to be renamed USS now homo.

1143
01:00:50.000 --> 01:00:53.000
<v Speaker 2>Oh boy, I don't know why you're saying Steve would

1144
01:00:53.000 --> 01:00:54.599
<v Speaker 2>like that. Did you see that picture of him and

1145
01:00:54.679 --> 01:00:55.800
<v Speaker 2>his outfit up north of.

1146
01:00:58.519 --> 01:00:59.360
<v Speaker 1>It was so bad?

1147
01:01:00.920 --> 01:01:09.519
<v Speaker 3>Man really regretting getting his new Trump musk back tattoo

1148
01:01:09.800 --> 01:01:13.920
<v Speaker 3>guys or judge determines Trump will get the nation on

1149
01:01:14.000 --> 01:01:19.000
<v Speaker 3>weekdays while Musk gets every other weekend and holidays.

1150
01:01:20.199 --> 01:01:23.360
<v Speaker 5>Oh yeah, I know, it's very bad. Just a couple more.

1151
01:01:23.559 --> 01:01:24.360
<v Speaker 1>Not a good look.

1152
01:01:25.159 --> 01:01:29.280
<v Speaker 3>Kill maar Garcia traffics seven kids into us on return

1153
01:01:29.320 --> 01:01:35.159
<v Speaker 3>flight from L Salvador. It okay, this will be my

1154
01:01:35.280 --> 01:01:40.360
<v Speaker 3>last one. Depressed Trump asks Milania if she'd put on

1155
01:01:40.400 --> 01:01:43.679
<v Speaker 3>a baseball cap and say space stuff to cheer him up.

1156
01:01:49.719 --> 01:01:55.400
<v Speaker 2>Okay, John, always drink your whiskey, meat and Steve, what

1157
01:01:55.519 --> 01:01:58.239
<v Speaker 2>is the latest A I pay in to the three

1158
01:01:58.239 --> 01:01:59.280
<v Speaker 2>whiskey happy hour.

1159
01:02:00.199 --> 01:02:02.400
<v Speaker 1>I have a genuine Norse epic here that comes in

1160
01:02:02.440 --> 01:02:04.719
<v Speaker 1>three standss tonight, which is a little longer than usual,

1161
01:02:04.760 --> 01:02:07.159
<v Speaker 1>but you'll see why. Because I asked it to do

1162
01:02:07.440 --> 01:02:10.239
<v Speaker 1>you know a Norse epic poem of Viking, you know,

1163
01:02:10.360 --> 01:02:13.920
<v Speaker 1>And it came up with three stanzas that apply to well,

1164
01:02:13.920 --> 01:02:16.880
<v Speaker 1>I think you'll see who it applies to. Here we go.

1165
01:02:17.480 --> 01:02:21.079
<v Speaker 1>First came the bold one, with drous laugh, whose tongue

1166
01:02:21.119 --> 01:02:24.719
<v Speaker 1>split the silence like Odin's own staff. He spoke of

1167
01:02:24.800 --> 01:02:29.000
<v Speaker 1>islay of smoke and Pete's sting, a connoisseur forged in

1168
01:02:29.039 --> 01:02:32.480
<v Speaker 1>the cask of a king. Then came the wise one,

1169
01:02:32.519 --> 01:02:36.000
<v Speaker 1>in cloak of soft tone, with tasting notes ancient as

1170
01:02:36.119 --> 01:02:39.679
<v Speaker 1>mill guard's old stone. She sipped and she pondered, then

1171
01:02:39.760 --> 01:02:43.239
<v Speaker 1>spake with deep grace. This dram bears the oak and

1172
01:02:43.320 --> 01:02:47.400
<v Speaker 1>wind from some place. The third was the trickster, sharp

1173
01:02:47.440 --> 01:02:50.679
<v Speaker 1>witted and sly, who dust at the gods as the

1174
01:02:50.760 --> 01:02:54.679
<v Speaker 1>crows passed him by. With metaphors wild and a glint

1175
01:02:54.679 --> 01:02:58.159
<v Speaker 1>in his eye. He toast of Valhalla, then laughed till

1176
01:02:58.199 --> 01:03:01.199
<v Speaker 1>he cried. And I didn't even give the a. I

1177
01:03:01.280 --> 01:03:03.679
<v Speaker 1>bought our names and anything about us, and it came

1178
01:03:03.719 --> 01:03:04.199
<v Speaker 1>up with those.

1179
01:03:05.800 --> 01:03:06.639
<v Speaker 2>That's amazing.

1180
01:03:07.519 --> 01:03:08.440
<v Speaker 5>Okay, before we.

1181
01:03:10.480 --> 01:03:14.039
<v Speaker 3>Let me you, let me just point out that Steve

1182
01:03:14.280 --> 01:03:18.760
<v Speaker 3>sent us a menu from some place he was over

1183
01:03:18.800 --> 01:03:22.559
<v Speaker 3>there in the Arctic Circle, and one of the items

1184
01:03:22.559 --> 01:03:27.199
<v Speaker 3>on the whiskey menu was whiskey help me sheep dung

1185
01:03:27.559 --> 01:03:30.480
<v Speaker 3>smoked whiskey.

1186
01:03:30.639 --> 01:03:31.320
<v Speaker 1>I didn't try it.

1187
01:03:32.639 --> 01:03:37.480
<v Speaker 2>Come on, yes, oh you didn't try it.

1188
01:03:39.599 --> 01:03:43.079
<v Speaker 5>You know what challenge? You didn't take it.

1189
01:03:44.000 --> 01:03:45.679
<v Speaker 1>I was going to and I didn't get the chance.

1190
01:03:45.719 --> 01:03:48.280
<v Speaker 1>I passed it by. So but next week, Gang, and

1191
01:03:48.320 --> 01:03:50.000
<v Speaker 1>you know, we'll see if we're gonna throw down ever

1192
01:03:50.159 --> 01:03:55.400
<v Speaker 1>on John's insults to us on being political theorists. Lord, okay,

1193
01:03:55.440 --> 01:04:34.920
<v Speaker 1>bye bye everybody, Bye, Ricochet, Join the conversation.