Speaker 1: What is up, Fellasikos. I am a still semi delirious
Dan Favalley coming at you with mister mort Jensen of
the NBA podcast, fame of Yahoo Sports, fame of HBO
Max fame, and of course where you probably know him
from most only fans celebrity. We are gathered here today
as the Hardwood Knocks NBA podcast slash the NBA Podcast
Crossover to talk about the most fascinating teams to us
post NBA trade deadline. We're gonna start with the East,
then meander into the West. We don't know who the
other is picking, so that'll add a layer of intrigue
to everything is. We don't know who's gonna pop up
for whom.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 1: But this is a way to talk about the fallout
from the trade deadline. We're also sprinkling in some actual
basketball analysis too. Who doesn't love that every once in
a while. More First and foremost, though, sir, how the
heck are you?
Speaker 2: I am doing well personally, Like my entire family is sick,
but the fact that I'm not. It shouldn't give me
enjoyment that the rest of my family is sick, because
it doesn't. But the fact that I for ones have
like avoided the clangy hands of sickness is just I
love it. I know that I'm going to just by
saying this out loud, I'm going to jinx myself and
next tweet week I'm going to be down for the count.
But the fact that right now ask per Tuesday, February tenth,
I'm not sick, that is a win and I'm loving it.
I'm going to squeeze it for everything it's worth. So
I'm doing well, Dan, I'm doing very very well. I'm
doing well too.
Speaker 1: Thanks for asking. But I think what everyone just heard
is that your family's lack of antibodies is like ped
fuel for you, which is a little psychotic. But right
you said, that's the most energetic intro you've come in with.
It's when your family is sick, so very quickly, how
did you approach or when you are approaching this exercise
and give you the first pick of teams, how do
you go about there's the obvious sort of oh new
guy here, they're obviously fascinating, but beyond that, what goes
into for you, like what what is the what's the
watchability metric? For more post NBA trade Duneline, what is
roping you in?
Speaker 2: Yes, So two avenues. They're obviously the one where it's like,
how does this affect the rest of this season, like
the here and now element like Voutchin in Boston for example,
And then there's like the long term view, like we
were not going to see Anthony Davis. Presumably we're not
going to see trade Young in Washington this season either.
So then there's the long term thing like, oh, Washington
is exciting to a certain extent, although I freaking hated
the trade forum for Davis, but we'll get into that.
Like so, so I kind of break it into two groups,
and then there is one team that is both in
Group A and Group B, and like, we just need
to talk about them because they made seven trades and
it's ridiculous.
Speaker 1: I wonder who you're talking about. I wonder who right
I would echo all of that, and I think it
only thing I would add, which steps a little bit
on the toes of the team you just teased. There
is the level of for me, the what the fuck
factor of WTF, what's going what's going on here? So
like that that sometimes speaks to me as well, Yes,
same same, you get the first pick because I'm I'm
a pretty generous person. So you want to talk about
first Eastern Conference. Remember your restaurant, I hear it. I
saw it, your Portland Trailblazers coming right out of your mount.
Speaker 2: I look, man, I I want to start with the
Boston Celtics because here's the thing on my list. Yeah,
I mean, look, this was a team. We did not
expect to be this good this year. We I mean
me personally. I actually I thought that it would be
their best interest because they have ownership of their own
draft pick. I thought it was being in the best
interest to tank because of no Chase and Tatum and whatnot.
They obviously didn't because that's not how they roll. There
are number three in the Eastern Conference and they decided
to be well, I want to say buyers. But at
the same time, they also got below the luxury tax line,
so like they both got a little bit better up
front and they got below the tax which is like,
oh impressive. The Booch thing for them I think is
fun because you know, he's becoming a cormuchial man. But
that might fit beautifully in Boston system because he takes
the threes. He passes like He's an IQ type of guy.
They need a big man. He can rebound the basketball,
he can move it like he hasn't started yet, but
I'm assuming when the playoffs roll around, he is going
to start. Presumableay, I just think the offensive upside in
him within the frame of that system is going to
be too intriguing for them to I don't want to
say pass up because Keita has done very very well,
especially defensively, but you're gonna need someone who can just
move the hell out of that ball, who can shoot threes,
who give you eleven twelve rebounds per game. It's going
to be fascinating to see him here in the short term.
And the only thing I hate about this is that
we're not going to see this team fully healthy, because
there is something interesting in my eyes on a group
with Jalen Brown, Jason Tatum, Vouch, Derk White, Pritchard and
so on like that that would be fun for me
to see. So there's a big part of me that
also hopes they re sign him in the summer so
we get that lineup next year.
Speaker 1: Well, I think part of the appeal with Nikola Vucevich
is my guest and maybe I'm just wrong. It feels
like he'd be more likely to stay for less than
MLLEB money than an Anthony Simons, even though Anthony Simons's
player archetype is kind of all over the place when
you're looking at value. He was really good for them,
what I do like, I don't know if they got
better with Vuch. I think they filled the need though,
and I know you mentioned you said we're never going
to see them at full strength. Jason Tatum practices with
the main red clause and has said something he gave
an interview I think it was today after the fact,
saying well, don't read into that. It doesn't mean I'm
coming back. And so after him being determined to come back,
he's kind of tried to hedge against it a little bit.
I'm gonna call that gamesmanship. I really just Jason Tatum
seems like he's wired to return. And that's also why
I find this team fascinating, because I wonder if they
do this exact Anthony Simon's trade or go about this
exact tax ducking scenario, if they don't think that he's
coming back because Simon's long term, sure, maybe he's just
not too valuable to this team. But if if you
don't think Jason Tatum is coming back, I would argue
that Simon's is a lot more important to this team,
just for the scoring, for the shooting, and so I
wonder if part of their calculus was, oh, Okay, well
Jason Tatum is coming back, so we don't We're not
gonna it might be a little bit of tough sledding
in the weeks to come, but he can play the
Anthony Simon's role on his way back. He doesn't need
to come back and be Jason Tatum right away, and
so that really fascinates me. And it's also you mentioned
this at the top, they're just way better than they're
supposed to be. They have a top five offense and
defense since Thanksgiving, and this is just not a team
that was supposed to have that at their disposal. I
also already like it's clear, and that was my hunch,
but it's clear that Vooch isn't gonna start over Cata,
which I think makes a ton of sense. What also
makes them fascinating is because of the way they went
about ducking the tax. More is they're playing this like
crazy salary cap game to where they're gonna have to
juggle like, oh, having below the minimum of players on
the roster versus going into it for a little bit
and then coming back out, and they can skirt that,
or rather they can junk that approach and decide, oh,
is there a way to duck the tax around the
draft if they want to. But I don't think they
went through all that trade deadline activity just to say no, no,
we'll figure it out at the draft. And so that's
another fascinating element here too. And finally, there's also kind
of the immediate future of it all because I don't
think fans needed to root for the Celtics to get
out of the luxury tax this year, but it does.
It's not counting towards the repeater clock. And now specific
ideally maybe they duck it next season as well. Just
looking at their salary structure, they might be able to
do that. But now what you have done is entering
a year in which we assume or know that Jason
Tatum should be available. We don't know what he looks
like yet, but he will be fully available. You now
don't have to worry about paying the repeater tax for
next season. So if it prompts them to go out
and make another trade, or is it the difference between
them spending a bigger part of the non tax pyramid
level or for some reason it ends up being the
mini m L. They're fascinating for a number of reasons.
And finally I'll wrap up with this. I need to
see what Boots looks like here, and then also if
Jason Tatum comes back, I think they're the biggest I
think the Celtics with Jason Tatum are the biggest threat
to the Pistons in the Eastern Conference. And I don't
know there are two other teams probably worth mentioning in
that discussion, but as of right now, just based off
what we've seen from the Celtics, I think I lean
that way to where the Celtics with Jason Tatum or
Detroit it's biggest threat in the East right now.
Speaker 2: That that feels fair to me.
Speaker 1: Yes, I what have you? Have you caught any of
Vooch's early going A little bit?
Speaker 2: Yes, so he's He's had a little bit of a
tough sledding in the first couple of games, hasn't hit
the three ball yet. But I get so small sample size,
I'm not gonna take anything away from it. The fact
that he was you know it, labeled a back up
the first couple of games and probably is going to
be for at least another few weeks does not necessarily
surprise me, because the Celtics have always put a lot
of stuck into having offense off the bench, be that
as a big man or a guard like that. They
don't really buy into this whole mentality, Oh, it has
to be a scoring guard, like, as long as they
get an offensive input from someone off the bench, they
seem to be pretty much satisfied with it. Vouch is
likely to carry that role right now. I just I
wonder if that's gonna stay the same when he starts
hitting the three ball and all of a sudden he's
like locking in for sixteen eleven per game, Because that
wouldn't surprise me that he can do this in a
playoff setting. His rebounding is going to be so valuable
for him.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think they'll need him against some of the
more physical front courts. And then if you do have
front courts, that catching his game against Miami to where
you like the players they have on their front line.
But no one's gonna say that they have a physical
or super big front line, and then Vouch ends up
having a really good game. That was his debut, right
Miami was his first yea everything, So yeah, I think
that will certainly come in handy. I am curious to
see though how much, because defensively, yes, he can end possessions,
and I think Boston has by and large the talent
to maybe insulate him. Still, I am curious to see
what type of minute he is able to play in
the postseason for them, because that's long been a fascinating
Orlando had no choice. The balls are just never gonna
sniff the postseason ever, and so it's gonna be interesting
to see, like what type of role he plays on
a real basketball.
Speaker 2: Team, right, Yeah, I agree.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna take us to Cleveland Cavaliers, low hanging fruit
but necessary. The whole thing is just I've already talked
about the trade Garland for Harden with Grant, and then
they cut their tax bill by getting rid of Hunter
and Lonzo Ball. They have Dennis Shuter and Kean Ellis
on this team now. Man, the Cavs are just they
feel like a science experiment, which I guess is overstating
the importance of James Harden coming in, but look, they
decided that his immediate availability is more important than what
Darius Garland was going to give them. And we still
don't know when Darius Garland's going to debut for the Clippers,
but it's so fascinating to see him. On the one hand,
you say, Donovan Mitchell needs someone to take some of
the offensive load off his shoulders. On the other hand,
it's okay, well, James Harden's gonna slow you down, and
do you want someone who takes up takes that much
of the offensive workload off not only Donvid Mitchell' shoulders,
but Evan Mobley. I think for this season specifically, it
was probably the right bet. And you can already see
through just two appearances Harden's made with the Cavs as
we're recording this, like, his average number of touches is
down the more importantly, the average number of seconds that
he's holding the ball has been slashed by two seconds
per touch right again early going. So there is clearly
this element of all, right, James Harden is going to
try and fit in, and we saw him kind of
be part of it, felt in inffiliate, felt a little
different before things went, hey, why, And then you go
to the Clippers, where this season specifically he had to
do so much, and so I'm so curious to see
how he's going to fit in as part of this
bigger context, because this should still be Donovan Mitchell's team
in a sense, and you also should be giving ample
space too, as much as Harden can augment the game
of Jared Allen and more so, or more importantly, Evan Mobley,
Like you still want to see Evan Mobley have the
time and space to Okay, like, what are how are
his touch is going to be impacted long term? I
think the big thing though, is most of like Harden's
already seeing more of his three point attempts come off
potential assists in Cleveland, and that's that's like kind of
the ideal balance. I'm curious just whether they're going to
be able to strike it long term. And then my
other it's a question or curiosity or fascination with them,
is I don't think DeAndre Hunter was this huge defensive loss,
but he was at least a properly wing sized body.
And so now you look at this team and it's okay,
Dean Wade, and then who I love. Jalen Tyson has
been great, but even he is just kind of a
scoach under wing size. He's listed at sixty five or
sixty four around there. Kean ellis same deal. Dennis Shruter
Ke listened to sixty three. Dennis Shreuter was he six
to one and that'll give you some that's a he
can be a good point of attack pest. But what
is what's happening with their wing defense? I think was
probably a question even before they made the Hunter trade,
but even more so now. I think I've seen some
people and read some people say, well, hardens a forward
functionally on defense. Anyway, I don't know if that makes
me necessarily feel better. Does it make the calves harder
to know? I guess you could say, does it make
the calves harder to target a little bit? Because forwards
are less likely to be involved in the primary actions
than if you know, Donovan Mitchell, Darius going and going
up against back courts. Maybe, But that's the other thing
that I'm just going to be keeping an eye on.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, look, they wanted to accelerate. Donovan Mitchell
has basically said as much, like I'm just gonna quote
him from an interview he did with Cleveland dot Com.
In a sense, the team is going all in. It's
time to go when you make that move, understanding teams'
age and where he's at in his career at the
time is now. I mean, he's just underlining everything you
just said, and rightfully, so this is this isn't a
play for next year or beyond. This is a play
for this season. And that's also I feel like putting
a lot of eggs in the basket of Vivan Motley.
You know, you know you you better step up now,
Like you have to be the primary big man on
this team, and you have to be that right now.
So that's where James's impact, I reckon is going to
come in. Also for Jared Allen, who's had a bit
of a funky year, Like I can't that's been up
and down. I think that's been a weird year for him.
He just hasn't looked as consistent as usual. So perhaps
that's going to be, you know, a key emphasis going
into the second half of the year that James gets
him involved. Like I loved the deal for the Clippers
because they got younger and this set them up for
a longer term, so I love that, but I also
understand the logic here. I get what they're trying to do.
It's going to be interesting to see if they can
actually make it work. I have my doubts, and I
was a little skeptical of them shaking that whole bag,
Like I thought the panic meter for Cleveland was a
little unjustified initially because when they lost to the Pacers
last year, everyone was panicking, like, DoD they have to
blow it up, and I was like, look, we just
got through year one of Kenny Atkinson, like relaxed, Let's
get into this season and see what happens. And then
they just disappointed to a major degree. And apparently internally
they decided they had disappointed enough to the point where
they had to make a major move. And I'm always
questionable or skeptical of a James Harden acquisition because he
hasn't really won you anything, but I at least understand
what they're trying to do, and that in and of
itself makes it exciting.
Speaker 1: When I think. What's also interesting, though, is if you're acquired, well,
I guess it's twofold and we'll get into this. I'm
sure we'll talk about the Clippers at some point. There's
two things you have to monitor, is okay, well, how
bad was Darius Garland's health or was this kind of
a stab in the dark judgment? But then it's also
if you're acquiring James Harden, it's under the guys that
you're going to pay James Harden, is it not? And
so I'm so curious to see what that contract looks like,
unless does it all get blown to smithereens because they
flame out in the playoffs and that's just sort of
the he hops in. They're not willing to extend him.
Donovan Mitchell request a trade or something. I don't know.
The stakes are so high here because it's this is
something more than just going all in on now. It
feels like this team is acknowledging that without making it
to i'll say the conference finals, that they're reaching some
sort of a not just an inflection point, but almost
a breaking point. And to that end, again, we still
need to see it. Evan Mobley hasn't played with this
group yet, but there's just something we could make. The
jokes about James Harden, sure, but for a team that
kind of needs Jayalen Tyson or Nae Kwon tailand Tomlin
excuse me, who was just converted to a standard contract,
Like needs those guys to show up defensively or to
show up at all at the moment. It makes me
feel wildly uneasy. And so you pile that on to
all the other dynamics at play here. And I wouldn't
call it more big curiosity because I think this team's
ceiling is still insanely hot. They it might pick to
come out of the East, and I'm not moving off
that now, but like, this has the chance to at
least there are excuses kind of, I guess there would
still be excuses built in, but with injuries or Garland's health,
you always have those inbuilt excuses. They go out the
door a little bit now when you make a move
like this, And just to circle back to the Darius
Garland health of it all, I understand there's mostly ceremonial
and maybe sort of a pr win with the Clippers,
but the fact that the Calves were the team that
included a draft pick in this trade is just it
makes me wonder if I'm insane because it's the Calves.
More information on Darius Garland everybody else, what am I
missing here.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I had the exact same thought when it happened,
or was like that's the scene including a pick. And
that also makes me a little queasy just in terms
of like what is that injury report or the injury detailed,
Like what is that the medical reports? Like how do
they look? Is it? Is it really this bad? Because
if it is that, that's tough too. He's such a
good yond player.
Speaker 1: I think he probably should have been. I'm not looking
at the team's off rip, but I had him on
All NBA last year and I know he didn't make it. It's
like that you never like what it happened. You can't
just say, well, he's been unreliable. He just he made
an All Star team and he was in the All
NBA discussion, and so it's what are we missing here?
Players don't just fall off that type of a clip,
especially at his age.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that food Selvi is going to make it exciting,
right And also just again, we've seen James Harden work
with other ball dominant guys before, and Donovan Mitchell's just super.
I don't think he receives enough credit for his scalability,
but that's a that's a duo. That is just I
don't know. I never had that circled on paper as
one that I wanted to see, and so I'm fascinated
to see how it works. And again, just how does
that interplay with a healthy Evan Mobley too? That that
three man dynamics Because Jared Allen you mentioned his uneven season,
he will find his place, especially playing along side James Harden,
so which he never would. He almost did but didn't.
He was traded in the trade that sent James Harden
to Brooklyn. Right, So this is finally what the Nets
should have done. The Cavaliers finally did. That's what this
was about. Parent James Harden with Jared Allen.
Speaker 2: My next team, I gotta go with the Wizards, and
that's the long term Lens. So here's the thing. I
was of the opinion still am, and I know that
I am very alone in having this opinion. I don't care.
I feel pretty confident about it. So like, come at me.
I still think that any team that took on the
contract of Anthony Davis should be compensated for doing so, because,
like he played twenty nine games over the past calendar year,
he's gonna be thirty three next month. We are also
seeing that his game is deteriorating. He's being owed because
I have to assume he's picking up that option like
you and I have talked about, Oh, maybe he like
is looking for an extension whatnot? Like, sure, fine, good
luck with that. He's owed like a one hundred and
twenty one million over the next two seasons. And it's
just it's such a rich deal. The injury concerns are
so ridiculously loud. The game is not loud anymore, which
is a concern. But if you're taking that aside, at
least they didn't give up juicy draft picks, Like do
I think that the Wizard should even have given up picks? No,
But given what they gave up, it's not at a
point where I'm like, oh, they blew up their own franchise, Like, Noah,
you gave up something for a guy who is like
a maybe, which fair enough if you want to do that.
But I am going to be interested to see how
this is going to affect like the youngsters, because it
wasn't lost on me Dan that there are now two
players in Washington, both of whom have repeatedly said, oh,
I don't want to play center. I want to play
power forward, and Alix Sorry and Anthony Davis. One of
them's got to give, Like one of them has to
step up of that position and do what they don't
want to do. At the same time, Keishawn George needs
development minutes. Try Johnson needs more development minutes. Bill Colopli
needs more development minutes, bub Carrington, Will Riley, potentially Cam
Witmore if they hang on to him, whoever they're gonna
get in. I mean, they're just how do you balance
that with Trey Young, who is like a high volume
score first heliocentric point guard, and then also a fairly
ball dominant Anthony Davis, who isn't just a playfaer ship
but someone who holds the ball a fair bit.
Speaker 1: I'm less I would be more concerned about the Tray
Young fit than Anthony Davis, because I think he has
these certain offensive proclivities where he likes to be on
the ball. They're not beholden to doing that, and in
the position that he hope now, I think to be concerned,
Trey Young is probably just more of an intuitive fit overall.
When you're looking at Oh and Anthony Davis, Alec front
Court is Anthony Davis gonna have the space to even
be a play finisher, to even hold the ball if
he wants to attack. In New York, Tsar is taking threes,
but needs to take more of them, needs to his clip.
It was promising to start the season. It's dropped off since. Yeah,
I'm I'm more optimistic about this team than you are.
And I think the problem with them being fascinating is
they're fascinating because of these decisions that probably aren't going
to impact the product at all this season. They did
say that they expect Anthony Davis to play at some
point this season. We'll see if that will see if
that holds. I hope we get to see it. I
just want to see what it looks like with him
and Alex are together. I think defensively they'll be They'll
be dynamite together. I'm more optimistic though, of the fit,
because maybe I'm overestimating the level of reality check that
Trey Young got. But do you remember the report that
said Trey Young is basically lasering in on the Wizards,
and it was yeah, no shit, because the Wizards are
the only team who were after him, and that has
to be sort of a reminder or, like I said,
a reality check for someone like him, to where if
you weren't gonna get paid by your own team, or
there weren't other teams that were foaming at the mouth
to go get you, does that finally prove to you
these small marginal changes you made throughout your Atlanta tenure
just weren't enough. But I share your concern with if
the ball is gonna be in his hands, I ultimately
think that it will help Alex Sar and I think
it'll help a ton with balancing the Alex A and
Anthony Davis fit because Trey Young, for all the scoring
efficiency problems he's had over the past couple of years,
that's a dude who can work and set up teammates
in tight spaces, and so Sar and Anthony Davis should
be just fine. Does it take away from anybody else?
I think that's a fair question. I really am, though
I don't want to use the word stunned, but I
am stunted how many people were against the Anthony Davis trades,
specifically for the Wizards. If you wanted to take the
TBD approach to see, well, let's see if they give
him some unruly extension before where we get on board
with this. But there's a strong chance, if not an
overwhelming likelihood, they gave up the number thirty pick and
salary to get him. I don't see an issue with that.
I think Trey Young and Anthony Davis are worth more
than anything you were gonna do with your tap space
this summer. And the bigger question, I guess it's twofold.
If you got them with the intention of extending them
off of their current numbers, or Anthony Davis is going
to get a max extension, I will absolutely destroy Washington's
front office. But will Dawkins Michael Winger. To me, they've
earned the benefit of the doubt. For the most part.
Speaker 2: This is weird.
Speaker 1: They're zigging when everyone expects them to zag or whatever.
But they're gonna have another high pick because they're gonna
keep that top a protected pick. There's talent there, and
I think even if they're taking the approach of we're
not trying to get so good right away, as much
as we want to help rehabilitate these player values that
we could flip them from more, that might be something
Trey Young and Anthony Davis are on board with. I
don't even know what the grand plan is there. I
just think they have so many options at their disposal,
and the opportunity cost to me was so low that
unless you truly believe they're gonna sign one or both
of them to just blastom his contracts, I don't see
the I guess I don't see the downside here. That's fair.
Speaker 2: I just generally am opposed going in on a guy
with this level of injury history. Now I understand you
also still need to hit the salary floor at the
ninety percent of the cap, which fair enough, Davis Kelp
should get there, and so will Trey Young. Like that alone,
those two guys are gonna add up for what one
hundred and something million next year if Trey picks up
his player option. Yeah, So that alone is going to
make sure that they're going to be closing in on
seventy percent of the cap or something along those lines
close to it, I think sixty or sixty five. And
if that's their priority, like in just saying, look, we
still have all our youngsters, there's gonna come in another
rookie instead of going out and paying someone else who's
not gonna get minutes, and just to make sure that
we're you know, matching the ninety percent criteria. All right,
fair enough. I'm just of the opinion with Davis that
he's been so injured or it just picks up so
many injuries, and he's getting older than I think we
care to realize. He to me, compared to how he
looked in the LA, he looked out right bad and
like compared to his standards. I'm not saying he looked
outright bad as an average NBA player, but compared to
his standards, I thought he looked out right bad in Dallas,
Like he had a few games like sprinkled in here
and there where we were like, oh, okay, there's a
d nice, nice seeing you again. But if that trajectory
continues in terms of him getting worse and worse and
the salary is what it is and he's just not available,
I mean, I guess you could say, yeah, so I
know what you're gonna say, like, if he's not available,
that at least you're going to get a lot of run.
Speaker 1: Through the other guys, right, correct, And it's yeah, I
think that what you're outlining is only a problem if
they turn around and pay him. And I'm just wondering
it's fair. This is a broader strokes question, probably, but
don't you think we might be past the days where
someone like Anthony Davis has the leverage to get this
huge extension. If he does extend, it's probably because they've
lowered the average annual valuable average annual value excuse me, considerably.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So I wasn't even baking in any extension personally,
because I think any team looking at Davis have just
taken like an extension off the table, because even if
you like extend, if you extend him next year, he's
he's extension eligible this summer. I believe after July first,
then he becomes extension eligible. At that point in time,
you're looking at someone who's thirty three. You haven't had
him on the court in your uniform, in your own uniforms,
I only play twenty nine games, Like I think you
would be at any price point you should You just
should not be looking at that for twenty six twenty seven,
Like this is something you do later on in the
season if he's healthy and you're looking at it, and
you're going, okay, like, could you perhaps decline that option
in for sixty two point seven in twenty seven twenty eight,
and we'll give you a much lower salary. The challenge there,
Dan is if they internally set his value ad I'm
just gonna throw out a number here because of the
injured concerns or whatnot. Let's say twenty five million a year.
That is a tough sell for Davis to decline that
twenty seven to twenty eight number. Like then he might
just say, all right, I'll grab sixty three million bucks
and then go into understuctive free agency in twenty eight instead.
Speaker 1: And what's what he leaves?
Speaker 2: And yeah, no, no, that's fine, Like if he does,
that's fine. And my point is it's still like, even
if we take the extension talk off the time, it's
just such an utterly shit ton of money for twenty six,
twenty seven and twenty seven to twenty eight. Again, I
am well aware that their cap sheet is beautifully structured,
and I think that's why I was like, why why
go in and do that? And like, but I also
hear you, if he's injured. Look, here's your runway, Alexar.
Here's your one way blog, Kulabili, Like, here is your
one runway. Whoever you get in the twenty six draft.
Speaker 1: I I think I'd be more concerned about this, because
you're right, that is a huge number. I'd be more concerned.
But next season, let's say, even if they gave Baalah
Kulabali this massive extension, next season is not a problem
because none of their guys are super expensive yet right now,
as you get into twenty seven to twenty eight, maybe
that's with Davis on that huge number. Even then you
don't need to pay everybody at that point. And for
as much as I like Blah Kulabali defensively, like he
is just never made good on what we thought he
could possibly be offensively, so you're not staring at the like,
I just don't see like a financial breaking point for them.
And so for me, it's more about the long term
commitment of if they did this and they're gonna extend
him this summer a better people because he's coming super cheap,
right and I just don't I think they're either not
gonna sign him to an extension or we're gonna look
at the number and be like, oh man, what happened here?
And I also just wonder they're in this weird spot
because even if you liked Alex sar Even if you
like Keishaw George, even if you love Trey Johnson, this
is one of the teams you look at and say
they don't necessarily have their tent pole of the future
or the guy who is gonna direct everything they do.
I'm not saying that Trey young and or Anthony Davis
give you that, but at some point, how long was
this rebuild gonna last? You hope that maybe you get
that guy with this draft pick, and that would be
a whole other discussion of well, who do they end
up with in the draft, and how is that player one?
How do they fit alongside Trey and ad? But how
is that player impacted by both of them? There? So there,
there's certainly questions to be sure, But I guess when
I look at the opportunity cost outlay, I'm just I'm
shrugging because they'll be able to find a way out
of it or just let these deals come off the
books and that'll be that. Because let's say they don't
make these trades, they were gonna be bad anyway, or
try to be semi good next year anyway, and the
end result would probably be worth They're ceiling with Anthony
Davis and Trey Young is I would say, way higher
than anything they could have done just in free agency.
And you don't want them getting to a point where
they feel compelled to give up their own draft picks,
which is somebody, and that further insulates them against the
downside if things go wrong, You're not going to pay
for it. In the in the vein of Dallas is
getting one of our first round picks or Atlanta's getting
one of our first round picks.
Speaker 2: I think it's because the alternative to me is rending
out cap space instead and presumably acquiring assets instead of
relinquishing them. And I think that's wherein I would have
opted for that as opposed to taking on Davis and
relinquish assets like I would much rather have done that. However,
I do concede that because they don't have like their
main ten pole guy, they can afford to take this swing. Now,
if they win the lottery this year and it's Darren Pedens,
Peterson or aj Debonza, like one of those guys has
to go number one, then it's like, okay, you know,
we're resetting the table here, like well, everything that Trey
Young or and anything Davis wants. That is going to
be up to us, Like, We're not going to be
dictated by your needs and your wants, Because if we
have a Darren Peterson or an ag Debonsa, and we
have a Trey Johnson and Alex Sara at Kulbli, Bob
Carrington came with Warwick will Riley keich On, George whatever,
then we dictate terms like right now, I think with
Davis and Trey Young and without them having like that, dude,
they're probably gonna have a little bit, not too much power.
That's wrong, that's the wrong way to phrase it, but
I would I would much rather have them focus on
the future as opposed to to whatever they're trying to
build right now. However, that doesn't take away from the
fact that they're exciting. I will say this, I might
not like the trade. That does not mean I'm not
gonna tune the fuck in the off season.
Speaker 1: A top five league pass team and needs to start
next season just to see the theory of all this
play out exactly like and that that's just the thing,
and isn't there a chance? So when you look at
what was happening with Dallas, and I won't say Washington
has Pristine's I think, by the way, that needs to
be one of the goals this offseason. Just add as
much shooting to this roster as you can. But like
so with Davis specifically in La so you're there with
Lebron and Reeves, you're not necessarily overtaxed offensively, but you're
over taxed defensively when you're looking at that group Washington
just having Sar next to him, or even if they're
staggered like then Ad is probably gonna like presumably play
a lot of five against backup units. You have Kishon
George blah Koolbali if he's still there. I've liked a
lot of what I seen from Will Riley lately as well,
justin excuse me, justin champagne Ye, I'm gonna continue to
get the Champennies mixed up. Having him there, there's a
lot of just guys in front of him or around
him that makes his defensive lift a little lighter. And
then also this team, I guess you could have said
on paper it looked like you could say the same
thing about Atlanta, but they weren't really running a front
court that could have a Sarna Davis behind Trey Young,
and so this might be one of the better teams
that can protect Trey Young defensively. When you look at
some of the perimeter talent, I know Bla Koolbally is
probably the closest they come to, just a guy who's
gonna turn the water off. But I really like like
Justin Champagnie is shot solid. I think Kishon George will
be solid. So just having those options, I'm curious if
this team winds up, if it gives itself a higher
floor next season, then even many are expecting by virtue
of it being better equipped to defensively than perhaps we're
giving them credit for the offense. I'm not gonna lie.
I think Trey Young, if he's healthy, you'll coax enough
offense out of this group. But I am concerned a
little bit about the offense, in large part because of
the spacing, but also I need to see what the
trickle down effect is. I'm looking mostly at I don't
know who you're most concerned about, but I'm looking mostly
at Trey Johnson, Keshawn George, and then maybe whoever the
Wizard's draft this year as the Okay, how do those
guys co lace a lot like with Trey Young.
Speaker 2: So who's your next team?
Speaker 1: Let's go with my Charlotte Hornets. LaMelo ball is going
to be a future Hall of Famer. I think that
we've established this moret I think I already spoiled this
stat before because I mentioned the other team, but here
it is two teams rank in the top five of
offense and defense since Thanksgiving. Yeah, the Charlotte Hornets and
the Boston Celtics. That is insane. This team is insane.
They are and I said this on Blue Sky. I
said they're a heart attack, but someone correctly pointed out
they're more like an anaphylactic shock. Just watching them, I
think the offense when all their players are available, it's yeah,
no doy, like this team is going to set the
world on fire. But just to underscore that, they have
an offensive rating of one hundred and thirty eight point
two when LaMelo, Brandon Miller, Musa Diabata, and kon Kin
Nipple are on the floor, Yeah, that is stupid. I
think they've gotten way more out of their center rotation,
specifically with Diabate and Ryan Kaalkbrenner than they were supposed
to call Brener has been he has like you know,
the occasional yam, but he's been way better defensively than
I expect. Yes, we're starting to see more Josh Green moments.
If James is hitting threes, what is he like a
top five player in the NBA just based off his defense?
That's hyperbole. I look at the defense that this team
has played. Brendon Miller has gotten so much better as
the years, as the year is progressed, and I think
you look at the data and then is shooting luck
caked in? Opponents are shooting under thirty five percent on
wide open threes during this stretch. But two things, one
of which I already pointed out on a previous podcast.
If your offense is so good that it allows your
defense a chance to get set, that's that's an advantage.
But there's a this team can press depending on the
lineup that's on the court. They do have some just
LaMelo ball size, contain nipple size, Brendon like, they have
good positional size. But between guys like Brandon Miller or
the work that called Brennan Diabote put in some of
the moments again that we're getting from Josh Green of
late having this see on James Wildcard to play Tjan
Salon like has had some really good stretches throughout this
post Thanksgiving stretch. This team, I'm not gonna say they're
gonna make the play in and then just like win
a first round series, but I think they are so
they might be so much closer than people realize. And
they're also fascinating because by the way, they traded for
Kobe White, and it was when in real time I
had I didn't have. I had some trouble wrapping my
head around it just because of the opportunity cost of
four seconds in Colin Sexton basically or three seconds whatever
ended up being. Was that enough of an upgrade? And
I started to think about it more, and you go
and to watch Kobe White and it's, yeah, it's an upgrade.
He's just the more versatile offensive player where Colin Sexton
can like he's been more efficient this year, but Kobe
White is gonna draw tougher defensive assignments. You can use
him in different ways away from the ball. I think
just by virtue of the size difference, you're getting what
three inches four inches going from Sexton to Kobe White,
he's better defensively. I still think that he is, and
the date, I want to be clear, most of the
data is not going to back this up, but I
will swear by it watching them. Kobe White's the more
versatile playmaker as well, And so if you're looking for
someone who can one, if you're gonna play LaMelo Ball
continental and Kobe White and Brandon Miller together, you're probably
gonna have an offensive rating of one to fifty. But
if you're looking for someone who can step in when
LaMelo Ball invariably deals with injuries, it's Kobe White is perfect.
You could do better in theory, but realistically speaking for
what you have to pay these players, I think that's
gonna end up being absolutely massive for them. And I
like them saying, yeah, we can have the flexibility to
go just sign him this summer, but let's get him
in here now. We're one assuring that no other teams
swoop in and pay him, and two we're gonna get
a look at how this all works out. And I'm
just looking at this team moving forward. I don't know
where their draft pick is gonna land this year, in
part because I mean, there are three wins behind me
three losses are two losses, excuse me behind the eight
seed heat. They're probably not gonna have a super high
draft picks. My point, they might be in the lottery.
Who knows. I don't know if they need to be.
I look at the way this roster's playing. I don't
think they need another high end guy. I still. I
know Miles Bridges has his on court supporters out there.
I know t Jon Salon has plenty of his own
supporters there. I just look at this as they need
a front court upgrade somewhere. It could come at the
five if you don't think Kulkbrenner Diabotte is starting material.
I'm more so. I wanted them to be a Jaron
Jackson junior team, but they just have And they have
extra first round picks to use in trade, so they
can probably get away with making an upgrade via the
trade market without having to sacrifice too much of their
own future, which is a really big deal. So this
is a team. The caveat, of course, is health. And
I'm looking at LaMelo there and I want to throw
you a question to let you start off on this.
I watched Konkin nipple and forget about the shots that
are going in. You look at the possessions in which
he doesn't take a shot, whether he's getting rid of
the ball or he's just moving off the ball. Who
is the last rookie that you can remember sending defenses
into that type of a panic. My answer was Dame,
And I don't know. I don't know if that's right.
Did I go back too far and I'd not go
back far enough.
Speaker 2: No, that's fair because Dame was after Steph, so that's fair. Yes,
Dame was twenty twelve. Steph was what nine oh nine?
Speaker 1: When was Clay? Clay was also twelve?
Speaker 2: Clay was I think twenty eleven.
Speaker 1: Clay was, Yeah, he was twenty eleven. And also I
think Damian Lillard just by virtue like doing on ball
stuff too, like Conkain Nipple can do. Uh Man. This team,
though they are, I'm not saying they're a top five
team in the league, and I don't look at this
team and think they're actually a top five defense. Kudos
to Charles Lee, by the way, but they there is
a there There is a defensive malleability to them, a
defensive heartbeat that I don't think receives enough credit.
Speaker 2: I was calling the game between the Hornets and Spurs
on Jan forty first. Like I've seen probably ninety ninety
five percent of all games in Victor one Bama's career
NBA wise, that's not many. I have never seen him
being guarded as well as Musadiabatte. He completely shut him down.
He completely shut him down, like there was no avenue,
there was no way to like utilize the size against him.
Diabat completely dominated that matchup. So from a defensive perspective,
when you have a guy who can shut down a
Wemby like that, I know it's a one off, I
don't care because he did it over the full course
of a game, so like it's not like in a
few processions here and there. This was a methodical undressing
of one of the best centers in the league, one
of the best players in all of basketball right now.
That is special when you have a guy who you
can throw in in a theoretical playoff context and go,
this dude shut down Wemby like he can probably play
pretty well against some of the other players. So as
long as as long as ChIL Durant doesn't get him
thrown out of game. But that that to me is
special like Diabase. I'm sold. I've been sold for a while,
but like that game sort of solidified it at a
different level like that, just that just took it up
a notch. Like, Okay, I was certain before, I'm I'm
like completely locked in now now I agree with you
on the Miles Bridges thing. So I brought it up
a name during that game that I called I was like,
and that was just the theoretical I was basically saying,
if you get a connector in there instead of Miles,
because Miles just kind of take shots without the flow
of the offense, you don't necessarily need him just taking
all those shots. You need someone who's a little bit
more defensive oriented, who moves the ball a little bit quicker,
someone who can rebound better, someone who can just connect everything,
like just be that missing piece alongside Ca Nipple, Miller, LaMelo, Diabase,
And like I was kind of imagining, you know, not
Jeremy Sohn now, but Jeremy Sohn presumably in a couple
of years from now, that guy who will do the
dirty work. He'll hit the occasional three, He'll have games
where he finishes near the basket. He'll be set up
but he doesn't force the issue in any way, shape
or form like or a prime Bruce Brown someone of
that ILK. That's what is to me is like next
level for them. That's the next step getting someone in
who plays more influential basketball than Miles Bridges because they
have everyone else playing their role and doing so fricking beautifully.
Speaker 1: And what's also fascinating about them, So they'll they should
be the other non tax payermid level this summer. I
think the end of this season is probably gonna inform
how aggressive they actually are. Yeah, they'll use the non
tax payer mid level no matter what, but I think
that might identify if they make it into the play
in or even the playoffs, then they say, well, how
did our center rotation do against what does our four
rotation look like? And also if they want to make
a trade, there's also there is the Lamello injury stuff
looming in the back of their heads. It's you can
argue we need to be urgent because our window with
him is we don't know how long or do we
wait and see leading into next year's trade deadline, Because
one look at what happened leading into this year's trade deadline,
all the opportunities that kind of arose. So I'm there's
gonna be that interesting push and pull. But I've looked
at them as just I can't. I was looking at
free agents to see who would make sense for this team.
They could do something like ad Dean Wade and the
level of confidence I would just have, and Charlotte being
a threat in the East with Skyrocket. I think that
says the world about how their core is playing. I
also wondered, this is just a name I saw. If
you could get Isaiah Hartenstein, do you like him better?
You would, even though Diabat is doing what diabatees do.
Speaker 2: No. I mean, look, I love Diabase. I wouldn't like
send him away. I would look at that as center depth.
I also think Diabase, you know, he's not someone you
play forty five minutes per game. I think he's someone
you keep in the mid to late twenties. That leaves
enough minutes for hartensteinen to you know, cement himself as well.
This is the NBA in twenty twenty six. No one's
going to play eighty two games as well, So like
they're both gonna be averaging somewhere between twenty five twenty
eight minutes per game. That's one hell of a center rotation.
I wouldn't hate that at all.
Speaker 1: The other power forward Hardenstein's not a power forward, of course.
I think you're leaning further into offense. But what you
mentioned about playing within the flow of it, I think
this player checks that box way more than a Miles
Bridges playing within the flow of the offense Ruey Hotchimra, Yeah,
I just don't are we leaning too far into let's
let's see we could break the record for relative offensive
rating in league history or something.
Speaker 2: No, but that's that's a good shout because Ruy is
so used to playing off of lead guards and you know,
the ball handlers. I think in LA he's kind of
been underutilized. Honestly, I think I think there are I
covered a lot of Lake this year, and the fact
that he's just being looked off as often ass he
is is a freaking crime because he's too good a
shooter her not to be given consistent touches. But he
will bend himself to the roster around him. That's a
good shout. Defensively, I question whether he has the right
upside but offensively beautiful fit.
Speaker 1: Yes, and I had two names. I already forgot one
of them, but we both agreed that Herb Jones was
a great trade target for them leading into the deadline.
I think he's still that still kind of holds and
I can't think it was a free agent, but I
already forgot, so I guess, oh, restricted for I have
two names. Technically restricted free agency doesn't happen anymore. But
if they throw non tax payer mid level money at
Peyton Watson or Tory Easton just to see if the
Nuggets at bow Rockets match, that's something that I would
for sure look into. Great, who is your Do you
have another Eastern Conference team you want to I have
a final team. I have a final team because I'd
see them. And that's just because what the hell is this?
And that is the Bulls, because I mean, we have
to talk about them, given how people come in to this,
but they want to hear more on the Bulls. We
get YouTube comments, discord comments all the time on the Bulls,
more and more.
Speaker 2: God, that's depressing. Look, we can't not talk about a
team that hadn't made a trade in like twenty three
years and then made seven over the course of like
two days. Right, they look I love that our Torris
Cardon show just came out and said, oh, don't call
it a rebuild, Like, yes, this is a rebuild. This
is very much a rebuild. You're you're absolutely starting over.
You have every shoot first guard in the league. Everything
is just like so guard oriented. One of your primary
wings is Patrick Williams, who is still so bad it
kind of hurts.
Speaker 1: I'm surprised he's not starting at center for them at
this point.
Speaker 2: Right, I mean, look, I like the idea of trying
to rehab some value, Like if they get a good
second half of the year out of Rob Dillingham, could
he be an interesting trade target for other teams in
the summer when he has one one more year left,
I think, or to no, wait one, this is two
years left?
Speaker 1: Yeah, two years, doesn't It feels like he's he's been
through some stuff just by virtue of how much the
Timberwolves invested in him. That's why it feels like he's
been in the league longer.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like he's only a second year guy, so that's interesting.
And the fact that they also got Jadeen Ivy, someone
I know that the league at large is a little
down on Ivy because of the injury he got, you know,
the Cole Anthony situation was ugly and he missed a
ton of time. He's kind of lost some burst after
that injury. But what I want to know is is
that something that is looked at as something permanent or
can he get that on ball juice back. He's so young,
like you almost have to figure his body will eventually
get back there.
Speaker 1: But is he interested because there's there's been moments where
he can't get or isn't trying to get by guys
like Jordan Clarkson's exactly. That's that's problematic, it is, and
it's such a shame because he was one of my
favorites coming out of the draft as well.
Speaker 2: I've always liked him. I thought the Pistons were only
half serious in like trying to develop him. I don't
think they gave him the benefit of doubt. Oftentimes it
was a quick hook. Then the injury started happening. It
was just tough sledding. So for him to get somewhere new,
that's also interesting to see if he can sort of
become the player that he we all rather kind of envisioned.
So there's an interesting, intriguing something there going on with him, Like,
can call in Sexton build up something for himself his
own market, come into free agency? What about anthrothy Simon's
can he do that too? Like because he was sort
of put into a little box and in Boston where
like you're doing this very specific thing and that's basically
all you're doing. Now he's getting a little bit more
free reigns, Like he's allowed to handle the ball, He's
allowed to take make decisions with the ball in his hands, Like,
is that going to remind seems that, oh, he's got
a little bit more to his game than what he
showed in Boston. Because it's sometimes it's a short memory league.
I'm just intrigued to see where how all of this
kind of shakes out for guys individually, for the Bulls,
like collectively speaking, it's just you have to tune in
to see because it's it's so weird, and also having
a million shoot first cards.
Speaker 1: It's fucking fun. Like they're losing games, but it's fun.
It's entertaining basketball. I'll give them that. I would echo
all of you say, but would probably add exponentially more
confusion to the fold here. And I will say I
did not see their loss to the Nets. I saw
their loss to the Nuggets, and I just want to
be on the record is saying I'm disappointed that I
have not seen the five point guard lineup yet. It's
been two games. I don't think we've seen it. Why
is it not happened. It should happen. It should They
have no reason not to do it. But like, man,
look when you think about that, the guards like Anthony
Simon's Josh Giddy, Colin Sexton, Jade and Ivy, Trey Jones,
Rob dillinghams likes the The thing that I struggle with, though,
is how are you supposed to rehabilitate the value I'm
looking at Dillingham and Ivy specifically, just because Collin Sexton
will probably leave in free agency and Trey Jones is
Trey Jones. How are you supposed to rehabilitate the value
of one of them when you have both of them
plush Josh Giddy just feels counterintuitive. I think it helps
Jay and Ivy has a ton of experience playing off
someone like Kay Cunningham, and so if I had to guess,
Rob Dillingham doesn't have the same health concerns. But I
think that Jade and Ivy fits the like the motif
of this ross right now, more so because he could
be used in different ways. So who do you have
more confidence in them? I guess the other variable here
is well Jaye and I. He's gonna be a restricted
free agent. As you said before, Rob Dillingham was two
more years left out this deal, and so I'm watching
that I liked. I don't know how much Yabuselli hated
New York did he was one to decline his player option.
I was sure he's gonna pick up to go to Chicago,
but I think that was smit wild down five point seven.
I do have. My justification was that he knew that
he was going to a place where he was gonna
play because Chicago's front court depth is so barren at
the imagine. Remember before they even folded Nick Richards into
the like they had Uzmanjang. At one point, I was like,
is he there? Backup five? So I think Yabu SELLI
place on opportunity to either improve his value overseas or
maybe there'll be a team that would give him a
two year minimum contract so you guarantee more over the law.
I don't know, but I was I was a little
surprised to see him do that as well. Other thing
with them though, and this always would have been the case,
but now it's I'm kind of even more confused. More
they might have sixty plus million in cap space this summer.
There are two ways to look at this. That ak
just pulled off like the greatest job security play of
all time, sort of just wallowing in mediocrity for however
many years, and now because you start over, well, how
are you gonna fire me? Now we're starting over, like
I need to see this thing through, or or why
would they why would they do this? More so they
could go ahead in the offseason and take a big
swing on the trade market and in free agency, are
they gonna go add Austin Reeves to their stable of
guards and then trade for big salad, trade for Karl
Anthony Towns? Like who's I don't I'm almost concerned because
I don't see We all view this as just sort of, oh,
they're admitting that they need to reset. But I also
kind of look at it and say, this wasn't they
didn't do anything. They traded guys expiring contracts. It's not
like they did anything monumental came to setting themselves up
for the future so correct. I'm almost a little concerned
about what the bulls plus a lack of direction plus
flexibility is gonna mean for this summer.
Speaker 2: I'm not into, you know, the big galaxy brained. This
isn't what it's gonna be like look over here, thing,
But I'm just gonna say it. With this many guards,
you also get a ton of different looks at different
playing styles, and that's probably the best way for you
to reevaluate or just evaluate overall whether justs Giddy is
the right player for you moving forward, because at that contract,
he is movable, Like maybe you look at the hit
him and you kind of compare him to the explosiveness
of Jade and Ivy if he returns to that explosiveness,
obviously Sexton, Rob Dillingham, those guys. Maybe we're like, huh,
perhaps we actually want a league guard who can bend
defenses off the ball. Maybe we want someone who can
who doesn't take like half an hour loading up on
a pull up jump shot, Like, maybe we want someone
who can actually execute plays, you know, at a speed
that that isn't so slow that we can't even catch
it with the naked eye, Like, there are so many
different benefits in having so many guards around, because it
gives you a look at how guard execution can actually
be utilized, and that gives you information. So if you
come out in the summer and you may have looked
at the second half of this season and reached the
conclusion that you know what the way that Josh Giddy
plays look love him as a rebounder, love him as
a playmaker, don't love the slow shot execution, don't love
his off ball gravity. Perhaps there's a trade there. I
just I don't hate their approach in terms of just
getting all the guards in there to give them different looks,
because maybe, just maybe it'll make them realize that pace
and space is the way forward.
Speaker 1: My final Eastern Conference team, it came down between the Hawks,
the Nets, and the Raptors. Would you like to guess
which one I went with?
Speaker 2: Again, give me those names.
Speaker 1: The Hawks, the Nets, and the Raptors naming.
Speaker 2: Him the Hawks Hawks obviously Hawks.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I went with the Nets. The Hawks. I just
think I don't really know what the Hawks are doing,
like they are another team. And it was the same
with the Raptors. I'm more pleasantly intrigued by them. They're
they're a little confusing. I don't know how good they are,
even as someone who is higher on them coming into
this season the Nets, there are a few things. Cam
Thomas is gone, They're instantly gonna become more watchable because
he's not gonna pull or hijack possessions away from all
the youngsters. Nolan trey Ari is gonna be unleashed. I
think we might see some more yor jaegor Joeman getting
like on ball reps as Oh, I'm not just playing
away from the ball that I'm someone who's gonna drive
the offense. Is this gonna be a stretch where Noah
Clowney is shooting a trillion percent from three or is
he gonna be shooting sub twenty percent from three? I
have no idea. Yes both sure. And then you're also
getting like you giving Jordi Fernandez and this will age
poorly if one of these guys is just like jettisoned
before this goes live. But Josh may Not or o
Chaiakbashi just more guys who are gonna be frisky defensively.
I really like Drake Powell. There's just a lot of
pieces on that, and now I'm just curious to see, well,
how do they cook without camp Thomas being in the fold.
But this is also a long term fascination play for me,
and I focus on Michael Porter Junior with it. Who
I do think he probably should have been named as
the All Star replacement instead of brandon ingram right on court,
not for his podcast takes, just for his on core
play specifically, I think I would have.
Speaker 2: Lost him in thirty seven. Record is probably the counter argument,
but like in a nutshell, I hear what you're saying.
Speaker 1: Yes, the Nets did not take on any money that
extends beyond this season at the trade deadline, and we
didn't talk about it in our trade deadline reaction, but
that is something the more I thought about it. They
don't control their own twenty twenty seven pick. They held
on to Michael Porter Junior and how people are mentioning
them as oh, they might try and get involved in
the Gianna sweepstakes, and I'm not. I think that would
probably be verging on foolish unless he goes for far
less than we expect. But this is a team that
suddenly feels like perhaps they're just saving flexibility for the offseason,
they'll do more of what the Nets have done. But
I'm looking at them and I'm going it feels like
they might have a non Yiannis Division major trade plus
signing up their sleeve to try and hit accelerate. I
don't know if that's the right move. I don't know
if it's the responsible move. I don't even know if
it's the move or inconsideration. Because Sean Marx has not
typically until they signed Katie Kyrie DeAndre Jordan went down
that route, he has not allowed Brooklyn's draft obligations to
dictate the tenor at which they rebuild, still not taking
on any long term money leading in the next season,
or I don't know if they looked at it and said,
we got a twenty thirty two first round pick for
taking on Michael Porter junior and in the process acquired
a fringe All star. It came with the expense of
Cam Thomas. But are they envisioning something similar happening this
year to we're aready get a twenty thirty three first
round pick like to be able, we would just want
to prioritize that flexibility. So I thought that was interesting
because they were the only team that had cap space
at the trade deadline, and they didn't do I wasn't
expecting them to. Oh they took they ate up Jeremy
Grant or something, but I thought they were either gonna
eat like a singular ten plus million dollar contract. I
was convinced, and they did not. And so it's just
something that after some pondering, after the fact that now
I was on my radar, could this be the Austin
Reeves team? Ooh you got man? I'm honestly sure, I'm
but you're here. So yeah, I like it because I
don't know how to feel about Nolan Tree or a
long term the efficiency needs to come up. I think
he'll get there around the rim, but the on ball
speed is insane. And I also think that they just
have between a Drake Powell, I mean, Boji, he's going
to be a free agent that did over. Josh might not.
But just like all these sort of defensive pests flying
around that you have questions about their offense. Probably Drake
Powell has the fewest question marks on offense. I don't
know this team is frisking. They also didn't trade Nick Claxton.
For what it's worth, he was on the books anyway,
but he's been I think people kind of I don't know,
entering this season, decided that his contract was not great
and so they've written him off. And it's all kill
Just average a career high and assists and showcase more
of a floor game and still be one of the
most switchable bigs in the NBA. And that's that.
Speaker 2: And with Gemmen actually starting to heat up now, I
think there's some interchangeability with him and Reeves, so like
you could get away with that backcourt.
Speaker 1: So it be Reeves, who would you start as the
nets dens or your best five men unit. Let's assume
Claxton and MPJA are still there, right, So yeah, so.
Speaker 2: You're Claxton center, Mpja at the four, I would say
probably right then you need a primary wing and then
Gemmen and Reeves at the guard spot. Like you're not
starting Terrence Man, You're not You're not keeping Siyo Williams
to that point. I think Drake Powell I like him probably.
I mean he's probably the answer based on the Kurt roster. Yeah,
but he's just he's like six four sixty five.
Speaker 1: Could you do I mean, so how much cap space
could they technically have, so they'll have I'm looking at
the wrong year. I saw a ninety million and was like, oh,
they'll be fine. So they could have close to fifty
if they were able. They shouldn't be compensating to get
off money, but could could fifty get you Austin Reeves
and Andrew Wiggins?
Speaker 2: Probably not, like I'm assuming, I'm assuming Reeves is going
to cost you more. But if you can get off
the Terrence Man contract, can you? Though, that's a little
tough because that's good.
Speaker 1: Because you just trade for Andrew Wigans like, so you're
not going all in on Giannis, but you're giving up
an asset plus Oh yeah, good for for Wiggins.
Speaker 2: That's interesting. So it would be Gemen, Reeves, Wiggins, and
p J and Claxton. That's whoever you draft and whoever
you draft.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's I mean, that's the other thing that's fascinating
about this team is how hard are they gonna go
after the tank? Because they are. They have the fifth
worst record as we record this and they are three
losses in front of well because it's it's hazy because
of the winning percentage, but like they got to make
up three losses. Well, they're only one loss out of
a bottom four record. So in the East, just between
the Wizards, the Pacers and the Nets, there's gonna be
some Shenanigans that's going on here.
Speaker 2: The best possible scenario for them is ending up with
the second overall pick because then it's gonna be one
of Darren petersnore hg De Bonsa. And if it's Bonza
at like two and he slides writing this or starting
a three man that works out great for them. I
I mean the Nets does it seem to watch next
year for sure?
Speaker 1: What do you think is more likely that they didn't
take off long term money because they want to hit
the accelery button or because it's they want to just
preserve for the opportunity like they got with MPJ this
past second.
Speaker 2: The second one, I think, because I still think they're
an opportunistic organization at heart.
Speaker 1: So this is going to end with the Raptors trading
Perl and the twenty twenty thirty three first round pick
to brookly Well.
Speaker 2: No, because can mean so many different things, right like
if if they flame out on who they want to acquire,
because that can happen after all their thirty bidders, you know,
they can pivot. That's what they've been good at. Every
single time that they've needed to pivot, they've done so
pretty well. So yeah, I look, this year was kind
of forgettable. I don't think next year will be.
Speaker 1: Are you ready to move on to the Western Conference?
And who is your first pick for the Western Conference?
I am.
Speaker 2: Just in terms of like going forward, moving forward or
not going sorry, not going for it this year, but
like going forward to long term. It's the Clippers. I
got we gotta talk about the Clippers. Like they decided
to say we're out of it. Well they didn't say
James Harden wanted out, but they amended that and they went, fine,
this is we are going to trade if it's a
shop botch for a very good return. Let's be real,
Like they're finally pivoting towards something that looks at a
little long term instead of always being in this year
to year business. Now what does that mean for Kawhi
is to me the big question because if they're gonna
pivot to a four or five year plan, then a
thirty four year old Kawhi Leonard doesn't really seem to
fit those plans a whole lot, Like is he going
to be on the.
Speaker 1: Trade market this summer. I just have my eyes on
this team in terms of like what they're trying to do. Yeah,
and I think there was the report that said teams
are gonna try and trade for him this summer. I'm
curious to where he would accept the trade, not that
he has veto rights, but how many times have I
said this. If there's a player in the league who's
willing to retire just randomly because they don't like where
they were traded, it feels like it might be him. Yeah.
Looming over all this too is we don't know as
of this moment. The rumor was that we're gonna hear
more about it after the All Star break. We don't
know what's gonna happen with this Aspiration investigation. So did
they acquire those first round picks in the Zubats trade
because they are anticipating that some of their own picks
are going to be stripped away? Or is this just
an op it was an offer that they couldn't turn down.
There's also just they don't have an and they're clearly
they didn't strip away their roster, but they acted. I
don't even know if they acted as sellers because I
love Darius Garland, but you sold on Zubats for sure,
But like you're still kind of built to be good.
You have Brook Lopez and John Collins in the front court.
If Derek Jones Junior is gonna be healthy and Kawhi
is gonna be healthy, which is just the other thing here.
I mean, this was gonna be one of my questions
for when Grant and I do a biggest questions post
All Star break. If he hits the threshold like on
are probably gonna finish in the top five or three
of MVP voting. No, yeah, that's which is just I
would not have predicted that entering this season.
Speaker 2: No me neither. He's been Look the fact that was
that Lebron who got the All Star not over him initially,
I think, So that's just preposterous. Why has been as
the lead as they come this year like this this
is one of those reminder years he occasionally sends us
where he's like, oh, yeah, like I'm still that dude. Right.
We talked about him some time ago where I said, like,
he's probably the closest thing to Michael Jordans since Mike
in terms of just the the specific strengths and the
way that he can carries himself on the floor and
his impact and like he's ridiculously good. So if he
is on the tree market, even at that age, he
should still fetch something good right at forty four.
Speaker 1: As an expiring contract. I don't know. I would say,
I think you're probably looking at sort of a let's say,
Anthony Davis level return where it's like two auta boy
first round picks, maybe, especially because he's the small vom
for Brooklyn that was the four ooh, they just use
their cap space on Kawhi now would be hysterical. Well,
I think what's also difficult with him is LA clearly
has these cap space plans in twenty twenty seven, still
even with Garland on the book, So they're probably not
willing to take back a ton of money. I I
have we even talked about when is Darius Garland gonna play?
Is he gonna play? Because the Clippers now small, smallish
sample sized three hundred and nineteen minutes, six hundred and
twenty six possessions, the Clippers are plus twelve per one
hundred posessions when Kawhi plays without Harden or zoobots on
the floor, so if you're also just gonna throw Darius
Garland into that equation, the Clippers, when you look at
the standings, they're guaranteed to make the play in. Just
the number of teams below them that are looking to
actively avoid the play in is all of them Memphis, Dallas, Utah,
New Orleans or Sacramento. So they're gonna make the play in.
But this is a team when you're looking at who
else should be involved in the play in, Golden State, Phoenix,
and Portland. If Darius Garland's healthy, are the Clippers the
picks to be one of the two teams that come
out of the play in. Sure, I don't expect them
to beat the Thunder or the I mean, I don't
know Clippers Spurs. If you let's just say that for
some reason, that's the first round the Clippers get in
is the de facto seven seed, and the Spurs stay
in number two. I don't think people are gonna pick
the Clippers. But when you cake in San Antonio's relative
playoff inexperience, wemb Steph Cassel, Dylan Harper, there's a lot
of variability in that matchup, I would say more so
than denver La or Oklahoma City, LA. For that matter.
I echo everything you said about well what is kind
of the long term plan here? But I'm also if
Darius Gurln's healthy. I find myself wondering what's the short
term ceiling on this team? That is fair our next
Western Conference team. I mean it has to be. I've
been banging this strum since before the trade happened. The
Utah Jazz, they're interesting for reasons that are divisive. I
will say, with their decision to play who they play
down the stretch of close games, or should I say
who they don't play down the stretch of close games,
people are gonna get big mad about it. Tanking is
a whole separate issue. I'm just interested. I wish Walker
Tesler was healthy because I just want to be able
to see the theory of what's playing out with Jaron
Jackson Junior, Larry Marketen, and Walker Kesler together. I thought
the Jazz made a great decision trading for Triple J
at that price, and we'll have to see how he
ends up faring. He only has to ape. He is
underhim belt with the Jazz at this point. But you're
also you're getting a taste just use of Nurkic still there.
I don't have any doubts that Larry Marketing can play
the three offensively. I'm just very curious to see what
it looks like defensively. And this is almost a better
trial by fire because Usef Nurkic is not Walker Kessler,
and so you're gonna be attacked differently than if Walker
Kessler's on your back line. That'll be a pretty big
moment I think for the Larry market In, Jared Jackson Junior, defensive, dynamic,
and the other things. I just also want to point
out Cody Williams looks like buying large lately an NBA
rotation player, and then he's not gonna win Rookie of
the Year. The efficiency can be all over the place,
but he's Bailey Is. I think he's gonna be a dude.
And so you have that. He's six'. Nine Larry markin
is what six.' Ten Jared jackson junior also.
Speaker 2: Six Ten Mark No marv marktin got a size spump
over the over. The summer he's seven. To One so
market is a. Seven Footer walker kessler is a. Seven
Footer Jared, JACKSON junior i think is listed at. Six'
ten i'm Pretty confident that bailey's listed. At six' nine
if this Team ends up with aj devinsa like, another
six nine guy they get to run Out Of lineup.
Speaker 1: Where ace bailey or aj is their smallest. Player on
THE court, that's why i again the integrity of tanking,
is a separate debate but the system Is incentivized for
the jazz to continue doing. Exactly what they're Doing And
if it's keyante george has, a, lightly sprained ankle no he's,
not gonna come back even though you're beating The Borderline.
Sad sack orlando magic so this team is fascinating for.
A number of reasons it's what does the new edition look,
like on the floor and we have, as we're recording
this we've seen very little. Of it so, far but
two also how hard are they willing to tank because
they've decided this is the last year. That we're doing this.
That's what you've decided you didn't give up any of
your own high End Equity To, get jared jackson junior
but by getting, him and his contract you've, decided this
is it like this is the final year of the
Capslock REBUILD and then i'm i Want To see how
kyante george CLOSES the year because I the other thing
i'm fascinated by is what does he? Get in an
extension does he? Even get an extension are they gonna
say you need to prove it to us again next
season and then we'll get you? In restricted free agency or?
Is there a number does he look at the first
TWO years of his, NBA career and say i need
like some security of the. Actual long term payday that's
going to. Be an, interesting, negotiation this team though even
Like Right DOWN to bryce Sensiba, I the jazz man
i'm all in on what they're gonna, look Like next
season and i'm just curious to see like some of. The,
footprints of it well let's say what through the first
two or three. Quarters of each game i'm excited to
see what that. Looks like this season.
Speaker 2: I'm, Glad you're excited DAN i'm glad and i share your.
Excitement on some players, At the Very Least, Bryce sense
a bog i'm glad, you brought him up one off
my favorite dudes to. Watch in the league this guy's
offensive ability. Is just it's. Nuts It's, JUST nuts cant,
GEORGE i will say i think you should. BE given an, extension,
i would, not like you know it's probably not GOING
to be, a max this year but he if he
duplicates what he's done, this year next year then suddenly.
We're approaching, max territory so like if you can lock
him up now for something that's MORE, than a fun
max because it's not even. Gonna be, A max hell
yeah like if you can get him for what twenty,
seven million a year twenty, eight million.
Speaker 1: A year and now you're not playing and they might
not have, been playing this anyway but you're not trying
to preserve. Any Type Of cap space walking caster is. Going,
To Be Paid marketing jaron. Jackson, junior are paid yep.
Speaker 2: Everyone's gonna, get paid so yeah there's there are a lot.
Of fun STUFF there something that i find amusing that
it hasn't happened yet but it, absolutely is going to
is when some random ass six' five guard who's, not
known for his rebound He's Just Gonna sky Over Jared
jackson junior and laurie market and grab a rebound. Over
the both of them because that is definitely going. TO
happen more than once i.
Speaker 1: Think you're under selling market? Is rebounding, A little.
Speaker 2: Bit oh yes i'm sorry his seven rebounds per game
in forty five minutes for a, Guy, who's SEVEN to,
one yes yes i am who.
Speaker 1: Does, play alongside use of nurkice it's, Gonna gobble those
things still like.
Speaker 2: Historically Not A Great rebounder historically jaron. Jackson junior. A
horrible rebounder we'll see, I mean that it's Interesting i
will say if i'm going to be, slightly complimentary to
that duo which i'm. All the wise. Very much not
the offense the offensive explosion potential for. Those two is completely,
nuts like both of them with the ability to stretch the,
forth the way they can the way that they can
take three pointers, off their own a court the way
they have been set up, and play off of others
the way they can, finish places near the rim the
way that. They can, SCORE in movement and like i
know what you're Saying About The defense, And Taron jackson
junior's defense like, i'm not arguing against that but, it's
the offense for me for those two that is just
going to be. SO ridiculously, fun to watch i mean
the manner of which those two the intraplate between them
offensively and Just having a guard like keyante who is
coming into his own who's. Become a very good playmaker
the optionality he now, has with those two guys like he,
can play pick and pop pick and. Roll with both
of them they, can set screens for another they can
do a, bunch of stuff off ball like the offensive
potential between the two of them Is, OUTRAGEOUSLY.
Speaker 1: Fun they've put honestly i know people have said this
that this trade was A vote of confidence in kank or,
not a vote of confidence but It Was nudged along
by kante george. Having a season he is it was
also A Vote Of confidence because jared jackson juniors added
stuff and we haven't seen. It so much this year, But,
To His from scratch arsenal larry marketIn and him are
not those guys, and as of right now no one
else on. The Team Is that guy, maybe ACE badly
long TERM but i have, to i said it before
you Have to shout Out as badley for just one
of my, biggest, concerns about him was oh is this
someone who's gonna be able to fit within a larger
ecosystem and he's had No. Problems doing it In utah they've, but,
the Jazz Are saying hey like keante, george isn't just
this plucky. Upstart fun story this season he is someone
who's gonna be able To Delineate Touches to, Keep JARON
jackson junior involved and. I think that's the guy i
want to see how, they use those two together because
MARKET in is both triple, j and marketing are scalable But.
MARKETING'S even more scalable offensively i think the comp that
people throw out is He's Basically. A Seven Foot clay thompson.
Jaron jackson junior is different like you're gonna need to
put him in the, right spots with a standstill or
you're gonna need to develop a certain cadence with the way.
You're COMING around his screens I'm I hope one that kiante.
GEORGE plays a ton still i know he's, dealing WITH
the ankle injury but i really like you're putting a lot. Of.
Pressure on his shoulders now had they, made this trade last,
YEAR just the exact circumstances i would have bet all
the money in the world of it, blowing UP in
their Face Because i didn't think. KEANTREY george was that
dude i also was on record on this podcast at
the BEGINNING of the year saying I Would. SELL high
on keiante george i think. THAT take AGED pretty poorly
i really i don't know if He's Ever gonna. Make
an all star GAME i'm not sure, Where i am
quite there but, just between the passing improvement, getting to
the line more and just the general shot selection and,
the fact that he Too What do you? Like kiante
george doing better you want him to? Create his own
jump shots or do you like it when he's hitting
spot ups and if he's able to do the spot
up stuff or some. Of the, MOVEMENT things too this team,
i think might be no maybe it is its own
science experiment to where you're gonna look at this roster
is sort of Just Like a, fully cooked washington wizard's
team or it's you might not be, able, to point
and say well, this is our tenth pole the guy
who is definitely going to be the, Best player on
a contender but we've got like four to five guys
who could be the second or third best. Player on
a title team and that's, HOW it all comes together.
Speaker 2: I think we're gonna See The real value. In keanta
george next year. I'm pretty high on HIM one of
the numbers i saw bandied about some time ago was
the fact that he's really been. Struggling on the corner
threes like last year he was hitting them. AT a
pretty high percentage i think it was like fifty percent.
Or something along those lines this. Year it's been under
forty so like there's probably going to be some return,
To norm in that way and like when he refines his,
shot quality a little bit when, HE refines like the
accuracy i would not be against the idea that he.
Might be, the guy there like again we had to see.
It within a winning ecosystem we have to see it
in a way where it, games matter every. Single, game
every single day, like because let's be real of the
forty eight, games he's played this year how many, of
them have really, mattered have been high importance have been? Playoff?
Context type of games none, so, That's, The next step
right like i'm not closing the door. On him being.
That guy so we'll see we'll. Figure out everything next,
year because the expectation, level as you perfectly outlined has.
Raised significantly for next year this. Is the last tanking
year wherever, they get in. The draft this is it
this is going to be the team that they're going
to run with. The next couple of years kiante's twenty
six to twenty seven year is low key going to
be the most important. THING for them NEXT year i would.
Speaker 1: Feel i think he's probably still the. Player you feel
best about if you're looking for someone to hit a frum,
scratch jumper on this Team It, probably still is kiante
george BUT there's a chance That I feel better, about
ace ball doing that or maybe. Whoever they draft this year,
that's the other thing too is they're just Gonna add
another high draft i'm assuming, they keep their draft pick add,
that Guy In the program And ace bailey is quietly it's,
not a huge sample size but he's shooting forty three,
percent on what is it forty. Two unassisted Three Point
attempts so the kante george has always been and he's
made improvements with the shot selection that he can. Hit
some just. Ridiculous shots it's absolutely insane. That's THE one
uneasy thing but i think that you just have so
much offensive talent and The Coach, you have in will
hardy whereas you're not relying on someone to generate all. These,
things out of nothing anyway that there's gonna be a
lot of ball and, body movement to begin with it
papers over. If that, is a deficiency and again. This
team is young Enough, when you're looking at George when
you're looking At bailey bright sense of bob. Maybe he
was the answer who knows moret when you're looking at
this year's when you're looking, at this year's draft pick.
It's not an alarming thing it's just something that it's.
It's just, something to monitor but there depending on. What
the roster looks like i'm already planning on. HITTING there
OVER next year i just i don't know if you
can name a win total as. Long as it's under
fifty that wouldn't convince me to. Hit the over right
now and, just to close, This up because You Know
i'm not, a JARON jackson junior fan. But i will
say this he wins you, games in the regular season
and that is not something that you. Should sweep under
the ruck.
Speaker 2: That is a, substantial element and for them they've been
so poor in just in terms of squeezing out. Wins
for a long time now for him to come in
starting next year obviously and just has them being, competitive
in the regular season that's that's that's the best. Starting,
POINT they can have like i still have major question
marks in terms of his capability in the postseason because
he is not one of those guys who. Steps up
in the Postseason He's, like the anti donnovan, mitchell like
he Goes Down. But the ANTI donovan MITCHELL but like
i just i want it on the record that for
him to go to a place that that is in
dire need of actually squeezing out, wins in the regular
season he. Will help them do that that this, is
high praise FOR me you know? How i feel about him.
Can this is high praise.
Speaker 1: Over under six point five rebounds per thirty six minutes
for the rest of the year for him be, taking
the over the. UNDER it's his career average. I think
right around there.
Speaker 2: I, Want, to be, happy TODAY dan because like look
i my. HEALTH is could right now i want to
SAY a little bit over i? Should know what screw
it six point six per thirty six for. The rest,
OF the season come. On jjj proved me wrong.
Speaker 1: It does feel like they have him on sort of,
a twenty five minute, limit and so in theory although
that's like not too many few more minutes, than he would,
typically play but in theory, if he's gonna play less
it should be if he could just grab like more
more boards in, a finite period of time it should
be able to boost. That total a little bit i'll
Take over to, he's at this is funny he's at
six point five through his. First couple get Per Thirty who's?
Our Next? WESTERN conference team MORE so i.
Speaker 2: Won't BEFORE i say this because i don't know if.
We Should go into them can can we talk about a?
Team who didn't do anything and that's kind of interesting?
At the same time? Disappointing is that a? Thing, OR
do WE only okay i think i, know Who. You're,
GONNA pick the.
Speaker 1: Spurs no, i went disappointed YOU'RE disappointed you're gonna Turn
i said to. A, SPURS talk.
Speaker 2: AT something yeah i. Am i was disappointed here this
team is good enough. To LEAN into something like i'm
i understand the rationale in terms of we didn't, like
what was out there we didn't, like the cost all,
RIGHT to a certain extent. I can see that notion
but as good as they are the teams, that they've
beaten this year the, roster structure that they have is
it not a Little bit what's, the word i'm looking
for scaredy cati ish to not, go in and like yeah.
Speaker 1: BUT like they have the i believe that's the. Scientific.
Term for scientific term yeah they Have The expiring contract
of kelly.
Speaker 2: Link that They Didn't use they. Like harrison barnes as
well THEY have draft picks like i that you also wanted,
to trade away so hand like that was the thing
they worked together on a. Trade They that didn't materialize i'm, i'm,
Just a little disappointed man like when we're doing Live
coverage or READ a, EUROSPORT place where i work i
had them as ONE of the loosers because i. Expected
them to do something, The fact that they didn't i'm just?
What's the end game here because you were presumably thinking
they were going to. Make a run this year, THE
way they looked right.
Speaker 1: I just you don't think They're Looking at it as,
Steph castle's in year, Two B's in year three, dylan
harper's in year one that they wanted, to give those
guys time and It's Sort Of what the oklahoma city
thunder did, before, they, went for it was well. Let's
see what this group we haven't seen. Them in the
PLAYOFFS yet this is even. I think, it would be
to me it makes more, sense they did some things
But it would be more i'd be more Focused on
a team like detroit to where we've seen a lot
of their young, guys in the, playoffs already to where well?
Why didn't they? Do right and we. Did that's a
good one that might have been A Lack Of opportunity
if michael porter Junior, Wasn't available with the spurs like
what did you want them to so like some of
the Bigger Moves, Would Have Been, Trey, murphy michael porter
junior giannis they were never going. To do that correct
season what would have been like a name or a
move that you would have? Liked To, Have SEEN them all.
Speaker 2: Right so i understand that, he comes with you know he's,
he's not A Perfect, wing but so DeAndre hunter he
was on the market obviously someone who has and You said.
This in, the east episode, you know big wing size
someone who is like a real six eight who can
score from the outside and put the ball on the.
Floor someone of that ilk i'm not asking them to
Go Out. And get an all star, but like on
the wing, they're a little. Bit short they're not huge
they don't really have that prototypical, Wing Guy like you.
Know Devin Vessel six' five the harrison barnes is like
six' eight. Playing almost, Full Time power for it you
know julian champagne is a real, sized wing in terms
of six eight but like he's, more of a guy
who's not pigeonhole BUT he's. Sort of a three and.
D guy and that's roughly about it i feel, As
Though They need more size there like kelton johnson's. SIX'
five place bigger, than HE is i will grant him
that but i was disappointed in the fact that they
didn't GO out and bolster their wing dipped because. I
do think there is a lack there i wonder how
much of that had to do.
Speaker 1: WITH what was the wing market for Them I just
don't like, because you like naji marshall as, an example
might have made some sense here but you're probably looking
for someone who's. Giving, you more. Spacing than you would.
Speaker 2: Have, Yeah That's why look and to your point DeAndre
hunter did not have great shooting or isn't having a
great shooting year from three and that might also be
a key factor on, Why some teams, LIKE wasn't interested
in him but historically speaking i, Would TRUST him as
a three point shooter. Like, I wouldn't be discouraged by
this year yeah i MEAN even going to they would
have been i.
Speaker 1: Don't Know what it cost to get him andrew Wiggins
Probably would have been upgrade, over the harrison barnment is right.
Speaker 2: For example like that's thinking outside the box that That's
the type, of person or, PLAYER that i'm looking for
and all all i was just left a little bewildered
by the fact. That THEY like they're thirty six and.
SIXTEEN it's i understand your point, of, view i can
buy the argument that hey. They just want to like,
see what's up but at the, same time With, all
the taw, about oh you know wemby given the size
he's probably gonna walk into missing. Twenty five games every
single year with injuries and then this was the first
year where we actually saw. Like legitimate injuries pile up
here and there perhaps that. Would, have, accelerated, their timeline
a little bit going oh oh perhaps. We don't have
five years to build something perhaps. We actually, HAVE to
do something right now like look i, Can be too.
HARSH on. THEM for this that's totally fine.
Speaker 1: I was i was just.
Speaker 2: A little disappointed i thought. They'd do something you know.
Speaker 1: What IT is it's all relative to expectations because. I
just assumed they were gonna do nothing it was fun
to put them as. A team that they, COULD go
do this i really if you i don't even know if.
We did anything along the lines, of predictions If you
would have asked me do the spurs trade for, somebody in,
THE top eight of their rotation let's. Say i probably,
would have given you no no Logic Dictates oh could
you have turned? The kelly olynic salary slot into so
else not, give up a core member of. Your rotation
but turn it into something. ELSE but that's just not
how they operate i think that they're. GONNA gauge, how
the playoffs go this season i look they've a top
seven point DIFFERENTIAL, against the top ten teams in the
nba a winning record. TEN and eight against those teams, as,
well i think it's fair to say well let's. See
what this looks like in, THE playoffs but, to undermine
my own point I don't know if you're a team
and i'm about, to talk about another. One that did
nothing i'mbout throw out There If you're, WATCHING what's going
on in Oklahoma city, lately I know They Traded for jared,
McCain and I know jalen. Williams is back but now shay.
Is injured they've just been so banged. Up the offensive
points has been so uneven they should still. Be THE
prohibitive favors to win it all but i, don't think
you get to play the well this. Is just this year's.
A four gone, conclusion they're an inevitability card they might
BE but they haven't seemed as inevitable as i painted them,
to be when they were you know what it looked
like they were going to be. Seventy, four AND eight
OR whatever, it was.
Speaker 2: YEAH you i just i think like overall i was,
thinking of the swap With, the swap pick The swap option,
with atlanta right and the kelly?
Speaker 1: Think like what could that? Have gotten them couldn't that
have done something because. Then you Didn't give up, a,
core piece, but, what i'm asking you though is? What,
like Do You have a name then though because andrew wiggins,
would Have Costed you A Lot of money like? Telton, johnson, Or?
Harrison barnes is going out?
Speaker 2: YEAH right barnes could. YOU live With, THAT i think,
you could, i love, barnes i really do super professional
but like Is He as crucial? TO that formation As
Andrew wiggins would be i.
Speaker 1: Think that andrew wiggins would be an upgrade, but, it's
at that point are they saying like is? The calculat
what we, need to give UP and first of all
it does. Even i don't know what the heater thinking
i'm not we're not going to, talk about them because they're,
boring as hell but right they're just like would they've
even Done It? For a? First round? Pick in? Harrison
barnes who knows that's fair All right you seemas up
another team that i'm fascinated by because they should. Have
Done Something, and, they instead did nothing the houston rockets
right Their Justification has Basically been The injuries to steven
adams and, fred van fleet impacted, their level of activity which.
IS to say inactivity at the trade deadline i would
just like to go on. The record as saying That That's,
a farce you don't trade for kevin durant who is
closer to his fortieth birthday, at this point than his thirty,
fifth birthday or, split right down, the middle whatever it
is and say like. We, can't really go for it
this season stop it's cool. That you have him under
contract moving forward look at. It like this is you're.
SUPPOSED to be you don't make that, trade i understand
the opportunity. Cost was reasonable you should, have done something
and the kind of, gradual at times precipitous demise. OF
their offense it's been brutal to, watch i Saw a,
lot of media members even like rockets, fans saying they
need to get. Another big they need to booy. THE
defense i'm still looking at this, team i don't know
how they're Gonna Score aside from giving the ball to
kevin durant, and praying ONCE they get to the postseason
and That's i. Say that As An, alpern shan, gun,
FAN them, to shepherd homer Come on right i, mean
that's well reach shepherd is the answer but will. He
be on the floor. In crunch time it's just the
real question houston is Twenty third. In points scored per
possession since january first the other thing, is is now
this is on the season there Was a point where
their first. CHANCE offense i'm not the offensive rebounding stuff
i think, it can still be important in the playoffs.
But it's, probably easier to, game plan around and now
by the way a Lot Of. It, goes out the
window without steven adams there their first CHANCE to offense
at one, point this season i think was like third
the third. Most efficient first chance, offense in the league
more on the year. It's already now dropped Inside the
bottom ten how do you not i'm not saying We
Got well actually by a lot, of, houston, rockets fans
and blog people saying yo There we've Gone over a
million times why fred van fleet won't. Get traded he
has the no trade clause we're just throwing out hypotheticals
as could you send him to a, team that's willing
to give him another contract or that. He Might like
to have made an upgrade but i'm not even saying it.
Needed to have been that dramatic, go out don't get,
a primary ball Handler Get some fucking shooting so that
if jabari smith is going through a stretch where he's
shooting thirty Two percent from beyond the arc or read
shepherd for reasons unbeknownst us to shooting, under thirty two
percent from beyond the arc that you don't feel. Like you're,
as debilitated on the offensive, End, And man if you
gave me truth SEIER and there are probably some takes
that I could fire off about this team, that i'm
not going to do right now but it is a,
problem that one game is a flashball moment. And it's
we've seen Sprinklings of it beforehand but the way the
spurs to call back to them, defended them in their
Latest Game against, Them where you're gonna ignore aman thompson
completely so that one like that. Is GONNA be an
issue in, the, playoffs and i understand the perspective of
well there was no trade that, was going to fix
this at? The deadline WHO were they going to get
we threw I Thought They would Have been a fun
michael porter junior team rockets. FANS basically wanted me, dead
for saying that i think. That's fine but you needed
to do something are, you just sitting here saying this,
is yeah we might win a playoff. SERIES and that's
enough for Us This, YEAR i just after trading for
kevin durant i think the kindest. WAY to frame that
would be anti climactic, i understand they still have options
moving forward that a lot of these guys. Have Yet
to even really enter their, prime kevin durant is thirty
seven years old and he is closer. To HIS thirty
fifth birthday, than his fortieth so i stand. Corrected there
he is thirty. Seven years old, there is no. Next
season season after, that, There might BE you're GUARANTEED this
season right and So i. Just i don't, even know.
IF i'm mad i'm not mad they're not. I don't have.
A rooting INTEREST in them i'm not Mad i'm just.
Speaker 2: I guess you sound.
Speaker 1: That i'm, Violently perplexed is what it. Is, ferociously perplexed,
that's really what it. Is oh you know the first.
Apron concern you could have still made moves. This is
not like we don't need To this is why you.
Have salary cap guruz in the front office you just
couldn't take. Back basically MORE money than you sent out and,
so i don't know who the name was but you
couldn't tell me that they could, have just went out
and gotten a shooter like just if someone had thrown
her even, if, It, helps you during the regular season
preferably yes it'd be nice if they, got someone who
would play in the playoffs but to just go. Get
some Shooting To. Open Up the floor so that's shangon.
THOMPSON even DURANT have more space to operate i just
i understand if they're waiting to make a bigger Read
On This core until the summer when jabari smith junior,
is worth more money on the, Trade Market when they
have to go through amen thompson an extension where you
just have a full. Season's worth of sample size under,
The belt But if The Issue, is well fred van
fliet and steven adams neither, of whom are even close
to their. Prime got injured? AND that's WHAT sunk us
why'd you like i just, i don't Buy that. As
a Viable excuse is all i'm saying bread van, FLEET
for being so important to. This team i think that's
absolutely spot on that doesn't mean that you just don't
try to augment yourself in paper over set or fill some.
Of your, Biggest voids at the trade deadline you again.
I'm going to End This. ALL thrown you they traded
for kevin durant. I just feel like that's a tacit.
ADMISSION they should have operated with more urgency i would
agree with, that they're in a tough spot for well a.
Lot of issues Are a lot of reasons the fact that,
Bendlid Is at twenty five, million not Playing, steven Adams
At fourteen one not playing, dawn and phinney smith twelve
point seven million has played what. Twenty games this year
and has been dreadful there's so much, dead money on,
their cap in that way Not, you know literal debt
money as in milwaukee but just it's fifty plus million
in salary that is either unplayable due, to injury or.
Unplayable to to you know LACK. Of impact let's just
be real with dfs? So where does that secondary helpline,
come from like you won't find it internally. YOU have
to go out and get it i don't KNOW which
deals were on the same what, I do agree with
you that this year i mean as soon as, they
trained for drand that clock Was ticking that Was, the
same situation as cleveland's in with harden whereas you don't
have time to go out and do whatever and build up.
Like you have to react to it immediately the fact
that they stood Still didn't go OUT and find more.
Dept at virtually just i don't Even, care that could Be. Depth,
at the guard It.
Speaker 2: Could Be. Dept wing could be, a Dept of, BAY
they they need something and i'm honestly. I just don't care.
About the positional need they. Just need Help they need,
help able bodies when cam, thomas, was, waived, he, was the,
guy no no no no.
Speaker 1: No let's. KNOW let's not get carried Away let's.
Speaker 2: You i know you Don't, like look.
Speaker 1: YOU you don't LIKE cam thomas that's fine i. Don't like.
Speaker 2: Jjj, Were we have. OUR thing that's fine well i'll
accept that, i still think he would have been something
someone who. Who. COULD just absorb shots which they need
uh i agree with, you THAT this was a very
inactive deadline and i Think. THAT'S a slap in the
face for katie i. WONDER what he thinks about it
long term.
Speaker 1: I THAT'S A that's A really good, QUESTION but i,
I think i would. ALSO i don't know, i PROBABLY
respect it i would respect it but i Would Understand
it more if it was man reed shepherd just, played
forty minutes and that's what they're doing and they decided that,
this is really this is that's not happening and he.
Has NOT been shooting the ball well Lately So i get,
it as one of reed shepherd's. Foremost fans but you're
not even doing that and, so it's just you look
at the start, like their most used core five right
now like the way that that at the way that that.
Unit at points can struggle to generate Offense Like, On The,
Season It's, Been like aman thompson kevin durant al pern
shangoun on the, court one twenty. Eight point six offensive
rating that's pretty good you start, sprinkling some of these
other guys into. There and the offense just gets super Rough,
and so you have the outlines of. OKAY this could this, Could,
in theory work i find myself wondering, yeah probably would
have cost you pick Equity but couldn't you stacked, some
of these maybe he was too expensive but couldn't you
stack Some Of these contracts together and gotten to anthony
simon's money expiring deal doesn't end up, hurting your long
term and that's You Know maybe that's, not a player
that emoo dooka Necessarily likes and it seems like he
likes al. Prinshang gun, on most nights at, this point either,
so and if not him to Your Point could they
have just been the kevin? Herder team just to get
to that point just the guy he has not shot
the ball well what feels like forever at least the theory. Of,
IT has, played out in the past yeah i.
Speaker 2: Mean you have four guys averaging over thirty four minutes
per game that's also going, to take its toll before.
ENTERING the postseason like you need something? Else i? Don't
ENVY their position right NOW is it am i Being
unfair when i sort of have the ROCKETS in like
a mental. Irrelevant, GROUP where I just, Don't CONSIDER them
yeah i mean i'm sorry like i just don't consider?
Them a threat? To virtually anyone? This year is that?
Speaker 1: Fair is that unfair is that?
Speaker 2: Too harsh?
Speaker 1: They? JUST have. SO much talent they. Do yeah i
don't i can't say not so?
Speaker 2: DO you think.
Speaker 1: They want a playoff series i.
Speaker 2: Did heavily it. DEPEND on, who, you're matching up against.
Speaker 1: Fair i mean, also they're not gonna fall out of
it but they're Only Three. Losses ahead of. The seventh
place Phoenix, suns The, like There if you're The, LAKERS
the rockets, THE timberwolves Are the suns, i WOULD say
i know, denver's not, Healthy but i just trust them
right man i'd be one of those teams is going
to be In. The play in and logic dictates its phoenix.
But WHAT if it just isn't mm hmm.
Speaker 2: And i, Don't want to, play all my hits today
Dan So Like but. Need more out of jabari Smith,
junior two they just need more more yeah definitely.
Speaker 1: More consistency ON the, OFFENSIVE end for.
Speaker 2: Sure It's just i MEAN i for a While I've
said That. I would have paid tarry easton over jabari nothing.
THIS year has led Me, to think otherwise i.
Speaker 1: Look by the way shout out to him because In the,
games that he's played since jacking way, first he's still
Forty Seven percent from three while everybody else kevin durant
at a, very freezing cold thirty SEVEN point Two percent
albrinchanngon sub. Twenty four am and thompson twenty. Four percent that.
Actually feels, HIGH for Him jabari thirty. Two My, god i.
Reached shepherd Thirty One, so joshakogi, HE'S normalized you Mentioned
Doran Oh my god i didn't really dorrin. Phiney smith
was shooting so poorly from. Three, oh he's been dreadful
all twenty years. Wait twenty point five? Percent over his
life it's only a?
Speaker 2: Seven what Is this?
Speaker 1: Sixteen GAME sample size that's since. JANUARY one so i
knew he was. Bad i didn't realize it was. That,
bad so That? Is that's rough stuff yeah who's YOUR uh, they,
should have done something and I Mean look They're losing
the Minutes That durant thompson and, shanghun play without STEVEN
adams on, the. COURT and That's Just, i DON'T know
man i love steven adams but i. Just feel like,
he Shouldn't Be. That important my final team THE memphis?
Speaker 2: Grizzlies?
Speaker 1: So, is this. A, wt f pick no.
Speaker 2: NO it's not, no it's not their rebuilding i love
it like they went from a core that didn't really
take them anywhere like you started Last year when They
did the deal with orlando. In the desmond trade.
Speaker 1: Right optimized draft picks That Was Step one they renegotiated
and extended jaron jackson junior because that, made him more,
APPARENTLY attracted to outside, seams which fair enough, i don't
get it but there we are and they actually were
able to squeeze out.
Speaker 2: Draft. Equity and get him off the books Love That,
next step is going to be, john moran and they've
already been you know it's been reported that they're not going.
To think about. The destination on his behalf they don't
care they are acting as a, really in the organization
where they're basically saying, we don't care where you want
to go where you're sending your. ASS to wherever we
can get most, value, i, Respect the hell out of
that because frankly i'm getting A little tired of the
Superstar GOING well i want to go, to team, x
and the team responding by oh really? Really, you want
you want to. Go, there, well we'll try to.
Speaker 1: Facilitate that no no think ab of yourself IF you
can get something more from its cmx.
Speaker 2: And then you. Send that player in supergatory that's you're
right that is the, contract that he signed where that
is tradable so LIKE do what's best for. You as,
an nba organization all day long, Like hell that's why
the whole You know joannis wants to go to the
knicks If. He ever Wanted to go to the knicks
LIKE if milwaukee, gets a Ridiculous Offer, from i don't know.
The freaking charlotte hornets just pull the trigger, if that's the.
Best deal you can get it doesn't matter you just
you shouldn't always have to, consider the thoughts of your
superstar because yeah you might. Hurt your, reputation for a
year or, so all right it's a year or two
and then everyone's. Moved on because. Everyone Has a short memory,
in this, League the christians are just like screw it
we're gonna send guys. TO where we, can get. The
most value i love it love. It they're setting themselves
up FOR something new YOU. Can, SAY it's a wtf
SITUATION or wtf yeah. I don't know if i agree
with that it just. Seems like they are hitting the
rebuilt button. They have a lot of draft picks incoming.
They have a lot of interesting. Young guys some Are
often injured in sechety that's, concerning center coward looks Like,
A real deal and they're so good dan they're so good,
at hitting in like the midsier draft, situations like in,
the fifteen to twenty mark even later on. They're so
good at nailing those draft. Picks I'M just there for
that whole thing, it's i love what they're trying to
do just starting over and using draft picks, as a
way to get to. Something new because This Was Never
Working Out the Job with ran jaron jackson junior desmond.
Bain era was fine and That's About It.
Speaker 1: ARE you a spokesperson for. ROBERT parra and. I don't
know about it i am not i think, this is
to me they've Had More success but we're kind of
entering bulls west territory, here where. It's will make the
damn decision all right they slow played this teardown way
too much. And kind, of strung along fans. Throughout that
hey cool you draft really well. You trade like shit
for the Most Part. You're always your biggest swing. With
marcus smart blew, up In Your, face how many times
you including marcus smart how many times you? Needed to
use equity to wipe off Money You've never even if
you Didn't Think John morant has been baying in jared
jackson junior was good enough to go all out and
make a really. Huge move around because you didn't want to,
they weren't good enough to justify the cost. Then you
should have, tore, it down sooner other than that said.
YEAH we're willing to spend around this team I Don't
love the. Idea that they kept john moran at all rip?
Off the but what is he doing now it's just.
A Distraction because the other two were gone and i'm
Also Of The mind. What happened with the jared jackson
junior stuff i've seen people applaud their return for him
because they. Think that, contract is going to age poorly
you know when, That contract was? Signed last fucking off
season so what changed he, immediately, had surgery after he
signed the contract basically so it's not. Like any health
surprising health? Stuff Cropped up, what, was the thinking there
this to me, yes THIS was the right thing to
do but, i DON'T trust them to do it properly
or i don't even necessarily understand because they didn't. Maximize
the error when they were really good it doesn't even
seem like they're tearing, it down because they're doing it
in stages and so this is just going to be
A slow drip and then, You Trade Who i think
at that point jared jackson. Junior was the crown jewel
of your franchise how many of those first round picks or?
PROSPECTS that They Got, have very high upside i, love
taylor hendrix But the answer is one and. IT'S that
phoenix pick in twenty thirty one i guess you could
talk yourself, Into, The, Most favorable of what? Is IT
utah cleveland minnesota having SOME value but i don't know.
THIS is i get where you're. COMING from i don't
love this, at all, i think the setup is choppy
it's disjointed and there's no you don't not everyone enters
a rebuild so cleanly The way that or We Thought
That The jazz did by trading donovan, mitchell rudy gobert
basically in the same offseason. And we know how that's
played out since but this has been it's just been
a series of a slow drip. Of Tearing It down
while lying about it the desmond bane trade Was like
one of the most, ridiculous justifications i've ever seen in
my life where it's this is a re orientation and
we're now more. Prepared, to invest. In this, group moving
forward bullshit that's? That But Them Why if you thought
so was? Jared jackson junior more valuable on a contract
people are worried he's going to age poorly or, just
coming into the. SEASON at this season at his current
number i guess you Could make the case that a
team like utah never would have traded, For HIM if
he was entering from agency but i just don't. Think you, have,
enough To show for it and. So yes the grizzlies clearly.
Weren't going anywhere they were spinning their wheels but they've
Been spinning their wheels for A while and i've seen
A Lot of the thing that Changed WAS john. Morant
Was no longer an All NBA player. John MORANT was
last in, all nba player, when.
Speaker 2: I want to say like twenty one right or is it,
THAT'S the better part.
Speaker 1: Of a half decade i might be wrong that.
Speaker 2: WAS just off the top of my, head i don't remember.
Speaker 1: It's twenty twenty two twenty two?
Speaker 2: That?
Speaker 1: How, many seasons ago was that for yeah yeah this
is It took too long to get here. And i'm not,
saying that they should have and to me it's not even.
That they should have blown this Up faster they never
fully committed to their big three in a way that
would make you suggest that they. Even kind of understood
what they were doing and if it was a self,
admittance that the group was never good enough well then that's, when,
you get to criticize them and say well the. Reorientation
or renovation or restart should have started then if you were,
never convinced That They And by the way you had
jared jackson junior on a bargain contract for, how many
is rookie scale into his extension so there was plenty
of time to take a swing without. Actually, BEING as
expensive as you could, HAVE look.
Speaker 2: I agree With All of that i Disagree with your
bull's west situation because the bulls Didn't even get, a
freakin first.
Speaker 1: For any you are correct. That was they that was
totally uncalled for there. They're they're infuriating me, AT the
same Level. And you know what i, respect the bulls
there's that word respect, again because they're kind of straight
about like, we, just want to be in the? Middle,
right What do we want to first yeah the grizzlies,
want to pretend, that they're, like a heavyweight but oh
no we can't we. Can't spend or our course not
good enough it's Gonna Be awesome when they have to
trade cedric cowherd in a few years because they. Didn't want,
to spend, To build a contender all right all right, so.
Speaker 2: IF That turns out to be true. Because i i'm,
not there where you are if you are you might.
Be one year ahead of me, On this and if
you're right about this i'm gonna just put. Up my
Hands up and. SAY you're Right like that's i'm not
there i. Think i'm gonna give this one more year
in terms of like. Them acknowledging all right here we
are rebuilding we are doing this like if they're going
to act as if though. They, are going to be
a future powerhouse. YEAH that's absolutely that's a load of
croc i. Think THIS is the start of something else like.
I agree with you they waited too long i also
agree with you That It would be nice to have,
seen john moran come out the door sooner, because now
it's gonna be a whole year a whole calendar. Year
in trading three. GUYS like that too seems a little drippy.
Speaker 1: I think that was.
Speaker 2: The word you used i agree with that i'm still
happy they ripped off, the damn bandage because at the
same Time Like they were still trotting, out that dan
wine up? All the time like why to? What end
what were you trying to achieve. There was no upside
in all of. This IT was a COMPLETE waste of
time and i agree and i agree with you that
it's waste. Of time not to Do it sooner too
by the way that i'm not In Disagreement with.
Speaker 1: YOU over so with the john. MORANT thing, i understand
where you're coming from a well don't you don't have to.
Send HIM to where he wants to go but i
would need to see how bad the offers were that
you didn't think it was better just. To move him
and be done with it because unless it's a public, relations,
thing where they don't want Us Say oh we got
Way Less for John Morant Than, we did desmond baine
and sharon Jackson Junior what could you have looking at
john morant's contract versus teams that might have what would what?
Are you trying to do by keeping him are you
hoping that to reboot his value, AND trade. Him FOR
more over the offseason.
Speaker 2: I assume so i agree with you that that Was
a weird, one, because WE saw what trey Went for
right and. I would argue that trey is just better
i understand, His contractual situation played a role in This
But are we sitting here Anticipating that john morand Had
Offers or the grizzlies had offers on john morand. In,
LIKE the two first round pick range no. I Very
much would be surprised at that so i'm, not SURE
either what they're holding out for BUT i do hope
the fact that they i, just, hope they're serious about
wanting to say, look whatever, it is we're holding out
for we. Better WE better GET the. BEST of it
like i don't i would i wouldn't want him to
send him out for like a. Shitty contract that runs
longer or anything like and, if THOSE were the offers
on the table then i kind. Of get them just
hanging on to him but it's going to be, interesting
to see how they're going to try if, they're going
to try to rehab his value. BECAUSE how how that
is a, FAIR question i don't.
Speaker 1: HAVE an answer there i don't, do EITHER i do
have A next Team but i can't decide between portland,
And phoenix for us to wrap, up, WITH i'm, GONNA
go With come on yeah i, mean I. Think phoenix is,
probably more fascinating but portland scoot is Back and, They're
Twenty seventh in all SINCE january first danny avdia. Tracking,
towards all nba consideration at this point still that's a
really big deal if they can generate Just any type
of consistent. Offense, and if scoot helps them Do it
like they're not a team that i'm gonna want to
face in the play in, or The first first round of,
the playoffs but i'm also interested to. See like their
ceiling is kind of, capped THERE are three losses behind
eighth place so i don't even know if Their Ceiling
is Could they get to eight golden state and phoenix
Or the two teams that They're Not catching phoenix there's
six losses behind, golden state's three losses in front of
them so like that's the defense is still there are
Nights where it's, Sort, of wax and waynes you're? Wondering
why okay like why wasn't this better but they. CAN
really GUM up the works for teams.
Speaker 2: I just.
Speaker 1: I don't know how to feel about them, i'm TRYING
to figure out what they're Missing and i want to
see more of scoot caught very little. Of his first
two games that Were There some of the shot making.
From shadon sharp lately has, been ABSOLUTELY outrageous the base
is just there but i don't see and the Fact
That their offense still treads water. With denny avia as
part of the equation i've, Been, In my mind, trying
To figure out okay scoot is, healthy and I'm actually
asking you this question what is portland's best offensive Lineup
or what has, the the highest ceiling i'll say Realistic,
ceiling because you don't Just want To yeah We Could
throw out scoot and shadeen and denny. Avia, and just
say forget about defense.
Speaker 2: Altogether, OH like their best all Round lineup yeah.
Speaker 1: I don't have confidence, that scoot would be a member
of it and that's he's coming back from such a
LONG absence that that's not really a Fair.
Speaker 2: I do think the two way playoff drew. Is too
alluring for me at. This, Stage like If we're talking
right now, yeah, Drew OVER scoot at THIS present stage
right like i, can't ignore i can't, ignore it grand
Either although he's you know for for some i've, spent
A Lot Of this podcast talking, about like Jared Jackson
junior's lack of, rebounding like that's jeremy grant for his
career just ONE. Of THE most miserable rebounders in. THE
nba but i can't ignore the defense i can't ignore the,
Fact that he's hitting thirty eight On Threes like he's
playing off of guys shaydon sharp seems to have found,
his Footing a little bit. AS a shooter which i've been.
Waiting for i know you've been, Waiting for like he's
he's in there, Too so like, that's Three of those
guys denny as Well obviously Denny, for, then it's about
like kamara at klingon right like. Those it has. To
be between those.
Speaker 1: Two they're not playing they were kind, of fun at
the beginning of the season so it felt like. They
were just playing these lineups without size but They, seem
pretty married to the idea of okay we're gonna Have
a big.
Speaker 2: On the floor now and klingon is just so great
on the, both the Offensive class, unless a shop blocker
just someone so yeah this.
Speaker 1: Was my round about way of saying they made one
of the As much as it, paying me to see
doop brief go. OUT they made One of the favorite
trades i think fit crachie could be, Really good to
them because you see them you see the impact of
just having someone who. Conceptually as a Shooter Is on
the Floor So like the DREW. Holliday shade, and sharp
kamara off the a cleyon lineup they're most. Used thirty
six percentile off of offensive efficiency you Start, to Mix
And match and. You're throwing oh like chris murray's in
there that's not a guy, that is necessarily treated as
a capsock shooter but, there's the idea, of Him and
he's not by the way since. Thanksgiving Twenty. Five percent
from three for him, vick crachie that dude shoots the.
Ball well gives you. A little ball handling he, has
good size he's. Not a great defender but he's good
size his he's always struggled With delivering a promised baseline
and it's in. Portland that's probably not it's Not, as
important it wasn't even important in atlanta but that was
probably why his. Playing time By AND large was never
higher i'm Just i'm i want to see how much.
Portland is going to use him long term It gets a.
LITTLE bit Hazier now that scoot is back i don't
i'm very curious. Where his, minutes end up being for them,
excuse me by the end of THE season but this
is a team that i really want to see get,
funky with how, it's and, if that means by the
way offensively speaking if that, Means more. Of young handsome,
on the floor, hell yeah and it's like to be
fair you didn't go out. And make this big move
at the deadline you know, you're gonna be in the,
play in Regardless there's probably something, too well even if
scoot is hurting you like You, really, need to Plumb the?
Depths of okay well what is scoot doing? What do
we have in him moving forward because that's someone else,
Who's HE'S extension eligible leading into this summer so i
really want to see him get even. More funkier than
we've probably. Seen this year love the crazy pick up
i'm just curious what their stomach for experimentation is because,
they can play the way that they've well they've changed
some Of the way they play like they don't, THEY'RE
not a team that, feels anecdotally speaking i haven't seen
the numbers doesn't. Feel like they're pressuring as much on
defense but they're a team that's kind of, rested on
a lot of the same principles making some minor. Changes
THROUGHOUT for a lot of this season and i want
To see them, experiment even more now that scoot is.
Back and just also lean into something right maybe some of,
these offensively inclined units are really, really bad but if
we unlock something offensively. Maybe it's easier to work backwards
from there.
Speaker 2: The fact That They've, also gotten quality minutes OUT of
city sosoko who frankly last year. I thought he'd be
out of the league he Was Bandied. ABOUT after he
was TRADED from san antonio i thought it WAS i.
Thought he was done as an nba. Player now he's
back as a reputation member he's found. A little bit
of a three point shot like this team Has, options
In terms of being funky like caleb but. Love, HAS
played so, MUCH better than that yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean right i mean some of. The like the
defensive assignments that he's taken when you're looking at a,
lot of the off ball guys like that they've just,
found guys that are like doing good things but IT'S
yet to sort of merge into what. I feel, is
a Sustainably good offensive product.
Speaker 2: I agree and like vitch, should theoretically help streamline that
a little bit, because he's more of an off ball. Guy,
like just bending off of everyone. Else like he's not
someone who's high, usage so he's had a, rough Start
there but it's been four GAMES so I'M willing to ignore.
THE same a size.
Speaker 1: I. Want to see i want to see him i'm
trying to think of what would be the let's just go,
All offense everything or as close To It. So, We
NEED to go with denny avdia, yeah, crachy I think
would be in there right, and.
Speaker 2: I probably IN terms, of, JUST offense Yeah.
Speaker 1: And then i. Think. Honestly, I think drew belongs in
there really yeah i mean who else you want on, The,
if We're going to all, offense here sharp well Sharp Is,
there Too. So it would be sharp holliday vit avdya.
AND then You Could. FILL in, your center i mean
donovan klingon, i MEAN he's got three Point Range. NOW
so i think it's probably donovan klingon i wouldn't hate
it If You can, go no big and say. Jeremy
Grant maybe But That's at least, Offense, But grant or
Drew Holiday, TO that, Yeah, I'D rather have, drew holiday
i think Yeah i think so but has not Been
i've Not seen a Ton Of. The sprinklings that i've
seen since fait crachi is There A ton Of minutes
with him, And, denny affia and i'm looking. At up
yeah only seven minutes so far. I'm gonna need to
see more of, that THE number is not good right
now but i think you Can say that. About a
lot of, THE plazers Offensive numbers for the most part
i just i'm curious to see their approach. Because we
know where they're gonna, end up, they're Gonna be ninth
or tenth maybe eighth and i'm just wondering how that
certainty adversely or positively impacts how they finish the season,
in terms of do they emphasize player development? Do They
emphasize trying different things on offense and scoots the swing factor,
here because we've spent a lot, of time like without
really talking about him saying. THIS team needs kind of
an offensive punch i think some of the floor spacing
stuff that would be, nice from them he's not supposed
to provide but as another on Ball Liable Creator to
where it's, not it's denni avdia and then? It's okay
Who Do? You trust After That? Is It? Drew holliday
is It jeremy Grant? Like scoot is is it chain.
And sharp scoot's supposed to be that guy scoot's arguably
supposed To Be that first guy in front of danny
avdia in in theory when you look at.
Speaker 2: The, Draft EQUITY they, have invested in him correct but,
I mean like you said At the top i think
for me? With scoot when he's what? How how many
how much did? He miss this is for fifty, two
games fifty two. Somewhere along those.
Speaker 1: Lines he's played in two. That's, the only number that matters.
To me yeah so he's missed fifty two that's just
it's so rough to come in with any. Type of
expectations when you've missed that much like the rest of
this season is only going to be. Him getting like
reacclimated to the Whole thing so we have to wait
until scoot year, four to figure out like what he.
IS which, just it's such a long time i wonder
like how they're, even gonna pro like, his extension this
summer if there, even, are, or if they're going to,
Be like look we just we don't. Know like we're
three years since. This thing we just have no freaking
clue would there be a good analog for a player
similar in his situation that actually signed an extent. Because
You could look At it Two, ways where portland like
it's shade and sharp actually the analog to where, it
was he still had all that, upside but it didn't
look like he ever he didn't tap. Into it frequently
enough or, for long enough he signed an extension. Anyway
and that was a good deal too? WHAT was that
that was the said four i want to. Say four
ninety right something along those lines And? Do they offer
him would. You offer scoot you're not offering him more
It's easier To say now, because we've seen shade and
sharp this season but based off, their sample sizes. Through
the first Three? Years of their careers are You? Paying
scoot but, What are you offering scoot in an extent i'm.
Speaker 2: Probably offering him for eighty, and then a team option.
AFTER you three so IN the final year i wonder if.
HE i don't think he, would take, that i don't
think so either, because like, given like THE pedigree and
everything but Like. That's what i, Would offer.
Speaker 1: Because? Sharp, Ben would you, SAY sharpe got four no
oh my god. I didn't realize, IT was even that low.
FOR some reason i thought.
Speaker 2: IT was more i. Believe, it, was, gone i. Could,
BE wrong yeah four no four Ninety.
Speaker 1: Yeah i don't. Think you could offer screwed more than
that like maybe, you could go with the salary cap inflation,
if you want to calculate it that way you. Could
talk YOURSELF into. Four FOR a hundred but but. I
don't that's i don't think he can i. Don't think
they're gonna sign. Him, TO one that's just way too tough.
Speaker 2: Yeah i think, he's gonna be. A restricted free agent too.
Speaker 1: Makes more SENSE i do think at least and, again
i haven't seen his two full games, but, it just
in terms of just like oh can you do something
simple as you're gonna ribble around screens or get going.
A little downhill and like spray the ball having another guy,
THAT you can count. On to do that I suppose
helps them so He had. The i think It Was
a grizzlies game he had assisted denny affia where he
was going baseline and throw it out, and HE doesn't
look super quick right now but, i think the Passing
craft is still There. AND so that's i'm not out
on scoot i feel like This. Conversation was a lot
of out on scoot do you have anything else you
need to get off? YOUR chest before we. Get out
of here i do not know can you tell our
audience whe they can find you, and, all, the fantastic work.
Speaker 2: That you do then sir yes you Can You, can
find MY work over at yahoo sports At, the nba
podcast and If You understand danius You can, listen to
buzzer beater that's a danish podcast OR You. Can catch
me calling, games, on hbo.
Speaker 1: Max please, remember To rate review subscribe across all, platforms hardware,
knox search wherever You, Find it leave reviews written reviews on.
Apple help us a TON on the charge, go check
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Out to the one the only the indelible. He, was Not.
Traded at the trade DEADLINE sadley not sadley he wasn't
on an. Nba roster even though he obviously should be
he could. BE starting for, your Favorite Team right Now
i guarantee you mister frank heila quina
Speaker 2: H