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Speaker 3: Meaning a live man like this.
Speaker 4: Man you letting butterfly flapping his wing, dig down in
Speaker 4: the forest. Man, it gonna cause the tree fall, letting
Speaker 4: five thousand miles away.
Speaker 3: Man, nobody see nobody. You don't need to know. Man,
Speaker 3: We don't like you followed a little story and you
Speaker 3: got bacted like that. Man, Man go back and dang
Speaker 3: on pane Man, no matter.
Speaker 4: Man, all right, Thomas, welcome back to Jay Burton Show.
Speaker 4: How are you doing?
Speaker 3: Man, doing well? Thanks for hosting me.
Speaker 4: Yeah, Man, I'm excited to have you back on. We're
Speaker 4: continuing our series The New Case. I look, this whole
Speaker 4: series has been grim, this episode particularly even more so
Speaker 4: so of course, you know, fewer discretion advised, maybe not
Speaker 4: one to include the kids on. But I'll throw it
Speaker 4: to you, Thoms.
Speaker 3: Yeah, this, this fact pattern is particularly horrific. And this
Speaker 3: really disgusting. But and I'm not I didn't select it
Speaker 3: as an important aspect of the series to be worried
Speaker 3: or as quick bait because it's a gross case. It's
Speaker 3: it was, it's a case in point the case and
Speaker 3: point I'd argue whether than there were Mira's case of
Speaker 3: occultism in the zeitgeist in the public mind informing truly
Speaker 3: evil behavior, and the Ripper Crew, as they came to
Speaker 3: be known. This was four men doing this and without
Speaker 3: naming any names. There's people who insist that not only
Speaker 3: is there no such thing as a cult crime, but
Speaker 3: there's no such thing as ritual cult activity involving multiple offenders. Well,
Speaker 3: this is a splendid rebuttal to that little assertion, and
Speaker 3: it also exemplifies how violent things were. And that's one
Speaker 3: of the reasons why outside Chicago this didn't really get play.
Speaker 3: And even in Chicago, this happened at the same These
Speaker 3: murders were happening at the same time as the Tail
Speaker 3: and Old poisoning, which was a national story, and that
Speaker 3: caused genuine panic here on the ground in Shoe Town.
Speaker 3: And then when these sick animals went on trial it
Speaker 3: was the able Archer era. People were terrified of how
Speaker 3: that was going to shake out, you know, with Cold
Speaker 3: War tensions reaching critical mass and scene since ninety's seventy
Speaker 3: three and adding to the bizarre lore. I've heard conflicting
Speaker 3: reports on this, but a deep dived into this and
Speaker 3: apparently it's true according to WLS, which was the primary
Speaker 3: investigative of a legacy media brand here on the ground.
Speaker 3: Robin get who was the leader of the Ripper Crew
Speaker 3: when he was a teenager, he apparently worked for John
Speaker 3: Wayne Gacy and Get was he was married to a woman,
Speaker 3: but he was he was bisexual and he hung around
Speaker 3: with gay people.
Speaker 4: So question about working with Gaysey. Was that involved in
Speaker 4: kind of the I guess like Chicago Democrat leadership role
Speaker 4: that he was in, or as like a franchise owner.
Speaker 3: No, he worked for Gaysey when he was a teenager,
Speaker 3: just for his like painting and construction company because ghekt
Speaker 3: was a carpenter and he was he was the kind
Speaker 3: of guy that Gacy preferred. I mean one of the
Speaker 3: things that's the bizarre o Ghektes. He had this incredible
Speaker 3: ability to control people. But he was this tiny little guy.
Speaker 3: He was like five foot and noth then really skinny.
Speaker 3: He's what'd be called a twink these days. Okay, he
Speaker 3: was kind of this he was almost like pre you know,
Speaker 3: he's like this a feminine guy. So this idea that
Speaker 3: he could intimidate these you know, and the Corealis brothers
Speaker 3: who were sort of the muscle of the Ripper Crew.
Speaker 3: There were these They were these Greek tough guys from
Speaker 3: the northwest side. The idea Get could intimidate people into
Speaker 3: doing things by his physicality is ridiculous. You know, He's
Speaker 3: the kind of guy that the co Corielis brothers could
Speaker 3: have broken half. You know. The way he could dominate
Speaker 3: people suggest something really sinister and bizarre. I'm not saying
Speaker 3: anything super natural, but there's something there. But he yeah,
Speaker 3: I but I mean the people these days when true
Speaker 3: crime fanatics come across some of these content creators, especially
Speaker 3: younger people. This isn't some slam on young people, but
Speaker 3: they think it's this insane cosmic coincidence that get apparently
Speaker 3: across pads with gay Zy. It's not though it test
Speaker 3: them into the fact that this this kind of thing
Speaker 3: was common, which is horrifying.
Speaker 4: But that's well, and not to spin this off into
Speaker 4: its own direction. But obviously, the the sort of rumors
Speaker 4: and allegations around Gaysey that he was not a loan operator,
Speaker 4: you know, given the there's a whole number of suspicious
Speaker 4: things about that.
Speaker 3: You know, the.
Speaker 4: Dozens of different keys to his house, the connections to
Speaker 4: kind of a you know, a snuff film ring discussion
Speaker 4: for another day, But critics have made, uh made allegations
Speaker 4: on that, I'll put it that way.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, And I it seems to imagine, especially if
Speaker 3: Gek was involved sexually with gay Sy. It's I realized this.
Speaker 3: It's a pure speculation. It seems to imagine gay Sy
Speaker 3: sort of initiating him into this sort of statistic stuff.
Speaker 3: Albeit you know, Ghek's victim profile was women, but it Yeah,
Speaker 3: I definitely think it's it's more it's a case. It
Speaker 3: goes beyond whether it smoke, there's fire. I think there's
Speaker 3: real there's real evidence that Gaysey had accomplices, and I
Speaker 3: I think that can't be denied. But serious people anymore.
Speaker 3: But basically, the way the Ripper Crew came of the
Speaker 3: attention of law enforcement, this woman's body was discovered in
Speaker 3: Villa Park. Villa Park is a West suburb and especially
Speaker 3: in those is there was a strip of notel motels
Speaker 3: where you could cop dope, where you know, you could
Speaker 3: take prostitutes, but there was a lot of just grimy
Speaker 3: kind of vice activity. Bensonville is kind of like that
Speaker 3: today by the airport, so not serious crying, but a
Speaker 3: lot of advice, a lot of drugs and dope stuff
Speaker 3: they caught. The strip was called by street people's the
Speaker 3: Gods a strip. But this woman's body was found behind
Speaker 3: one of these motels. It's still it was then it
Speaker 3: was called the moon Lit Motel. It's it's been branded
Speaker 3: something different now. But at first glance it appeared as
Speaker 3: if this woman had been dead for some time because
Speaker 3: the body was heavily decomposed. She was a prostitute named
Speaker 3: wind Of Sutton from the West Side, which was odd
Speaker 3: that she'd end up that far. Villa Park's not super
Speaker 3: far from the West Side proper, but it's not a
Speaker 3: place of prostitute which just traveled as service in John
Speaker 3: you know. And her name was Linda Sutton. She still
Speaker 3: had her cash in her socks, so she hadn't been robbed.
Speaker 3: The coroner, owing to very diligent examination and a strong
Speaker 3: base of knowledge, he realized this woman hadn't been dead
Speaker 3: for a long time. She'd only been dead for two
Speaker 3: or three days. What had happened to her? And then
Speaker 3: again this is very grotesque. Her breast had been totally severed,
Speaker 3: and owing to that, insects and various microbes and parasites
Speaker 3: were able to invade the corpse and deteriorate the remains rapidly,
Speaker 3: so at first the police and again in Villa Park.
Speaker 3: They probably get one or two homicides a year even
Speaker 3: back then, and it was in the form of bar
Speaker 3: fights or some sort of domestic dispute that turns into
Speaker 3: a murder. These kinds of random homicides didn't really happen,
Speaker 3: certainly not dead hookers, where you know, body parts are
Speaker 3: removed as a trophy, fetish object, and that's kind of
Speaker 3: This was kind of forgotten about until several months later
Speaker 3: in the fall of nineteen eighty two. October, a woman
Speaker 3: named Denise Gardner, she got snatched up by a guy
Speaker 3: in a red van and she was she survived the attack.
Speaker 3: And what she relayed was a red van had approached
Speaker 3: her on West North Avenue, which was her regular stroll,
Speaker 3: and she said, a little white guy who was at
Speaker 3: the wheel, you know, and he he solicited the act
Speaker 3: he wanted and she gave him the price. He paid her.
Speaker 3: He said, get in. She got into the van. It
Speaker 3: was a carpenter's van and it had a partition and
Speaker 3: she had the wherewithal to remember odd details about it.
Speaker 3: There's been a roach clip hanging from two blue feathers
Speaker 3: from the rear view, and this becomes significant how the
Speaker 3: van was identified. He said something of the effect of,
Speaker 3: you know, fex yourself a drank, or why don't you
Speaker 3: get in the back and get comfortable, and I'll be
Speaker 3: there in a minute. When I park. She went in
Speaker 3: the back, the guy pulled a gun, started pistel whipping her.
Speaker 3: Then he forth pills down her throat and she passed out.
Speaker 3: You know, she was fading out. He continued to piss
Speaker 3: the whipper. She woke up in an alleyway, only a
Speaker 3: few bucks from the stroll and uh, she'd been savagely
Speaker 3: assaulted and one of her breasts was removed. Okay, somebody
Speaker 3: found her before she bled out. It was a streets
Speaker 3: and Sanitation guy who called it in and she identified
Speaker 3: uh to the police from her hospital bed. You know,
Speaker 3: the man who's ultimately identified as Robin Get Okay, and uh,
Speaker 3: she said it was a seventy six or seventy seven
Speaker 3: or seventy eight van. Hookers get to know cars real well.
Speaker 3: He s they did in those days because they're constant
Speaker 3: getting in and out of them, and if something seems
Speaker 3: suss or scary to him, they like hit other females
Speaker 3: on that hustle. Hey watch out for like the seventy
Speaker 3: nine you know corvetor or whatever, which is an interesting factoid.
Speaker 3: But that's how she was able to make the man.
Speaker 3: You know, she described get physically. You know, she described
Speaker 3: the roach clip, all of that. So a few weeks later,
Speaker 3: on October twentieth, why'd you between these two murders or
Speaker 3: between this one assault and this murder and bill apart
Speaker 3: like no connect himp in media. But these two Chicago
Speaker 3: police they were on Lake Short Drive and they come
Speaker 3: across as a red van and I think it was
Speaker 3: the There were past and the red van got off
Speaker 3: the drive. They followed it to Central Avenue, and uh,
Speaker 3: they realized it was an apb out for a red
Speaker 3: or dark orange van with a partition and with the
Speaker 3: you know, a roche clib with blue feathers. So they
Speaker 3: pull up next to it, they see the feathers. They
Speaker 3: pull a van over, pull a driver out, and there's
Speaker 3: a guy there driving and who doesn't fit the description
Speaker 3: at all that Denise Gardner gave. It was some guy
Speaker 3: who they was, you know, probably his late teens, with goofy,
Speaker 3: wild red hair, and h is idea indicated his name
Speaker 3: was Eddie Sprecher. And when the police says, this is
Speaker 3: your van, he said, no, it's my boss. It's van.
Speaker 3: So these two police say, well, who's your boss. He says, oh,
Speaker 3: my boss is Robin get So. The police say, well,
Speaker 3: you know, you know you're gonna take us to Robin
Speaker 3: get So he takes him to this house on a
Speaker 3: north winder, the three thousand a north winder and uh,
Speaker 3: when they get there, they have Eddie knock on the door.
Speaker 3: Get comes out. He fits the description to a t
Speaker 3: that Denise Gardener he gave him. The cops say, you
Speaker 3: know your your van was or a van fitting this
Speaker 3: description was implicated in a very serious crime. I Get
Speaker 3: apparently was tobably lack a daizagle about it. He comes
Speaker 3: to the police station and uh, the police's first impression
Speaker 3: was this guy's probably just a freak who likes to
Speaker 3: hurd hookers. And it just got a little bit out
Speaker 3: of hand with the niece Gardner. But as they talked
Speaker 3: of Spritzer, it became clear that Spreeiser was terrified and
Speaker 3: Obviously that didn't seem normal, and it's why why would
Speaker 3: you be terrified of this little feminine guy if you
Speaker 3: even accuse your boss or whatever. As time went on,
Speaker 3: Spritzer said that he wanted to confess, and the police said,
Speaker 3: confess to what You're not suspected of anything, And Spiders said, well,
Speaker 3: we killed a girl, and we killed a black girl
Speaker 3: and dunked her, and uh, Villa Park, we killed an
Speaker 3: Asian girl out in the West Suburbs too. We killed
Speaker 3: some rich lady that we grabbed off Rush Street. He
Speaker 3: confessed to almost twenty homicides. You and the police are
Speaker 3: just aghast. So they start looking for a you know,
Speaker 3: trying to match this these these claims to see if
Speaker 3: they're a loser you're not, and see if there's any
Speaker 3: fact patterns in Chicago and Greater Chicago and that matched
Speaker 3: these claims, and of course, what you know, this this
Speaker 3: Villa Park murder comes up immediately with the dismembered breast,
Speaker 3: and uh, they realize they they they have, they have
Speaker 3: they probably have two serial killers on their hands. But
Speaker 3: then it gets even more bizarre because this is Area
Speaker 3: five homicide. There used to be six police areas now
Speaker 3: there's only five and uh, they've been reconfigured a bit,
Speaker 3: but there's not there's not a homicide division of Chicago PD.
Speaker 3: There's a duro of detectives. They're basically the major crimes unit,
Speaker 3: and they get homicides. And area five is northwest and uh,
Speaker 3: that's that's not that's not a hood area. But it's
Speaker 3: a prestige posting. And especially in those days, you get
Speaker 3: a pretty high caliber of guys on that detail. Okay,
Speaker 3: but even they it was unfathomble of them that that
Speaker 3: there'd be more than two guys doing this together. But
Speaker 3: so they just said, but still the police have this idea.
Speaker 3: Let's take Eddie sprites Or and put in the room.
Speaker 3: Put him in the room with Robin ghet and let's
Speaker 3: see how Let's let's see if they go at each other.
Speaker 3: Let's see if they try and blame each other. Let's
Speaker 3: see what Ghekt if he if he starts confessing after
Speaker 3: we say that Spritzers made him for you know, eighteen
Speaker 3: murders or whatever, so he claims. So they take Spritzer
Speaker 3: in there and they said Ghek just looked at him calmly,
Speaker 3: and they said Spritzer started visibly shaking, and one of
Speaker 3: the detectives says, you know, tell tell your pell Robin,
Speaker 3: what what you just told us? And Spritzer says, rob
Speaker 3: and I told them about all the girls, and Get
Speaker 3: just said, I have no idea what you're talking about.
Speaker 3: You know, no anger, no visible. He wasn't visible. We shook,
Speaker 3: nothing like that. So then when they takes Spritzer back
Speaker 3: to his his own interrogation room, Spritzer says, you know what,
Speaker 3: you know what I lied? I lied? Robin wasn't there.
Speaker 3: I did these homicides with with Andy kak Coriolis, as
Speaker 3: the police say, like, who the fuck is Andy kok Corialis. Well,
Speaker 3: as it turns out, Andy kok Corialis was another employee
Speaker 3: of Robin Gets, although when they asked him at first,
Speaker 3: Gex said he was just this kid that he knew
Speaker 3: who used to be as a neighbor. Coo. Coriolis was
Speaker 3: a villa park guy, which uh accounts for the connection
Speaker 3: of the moonlit motel. I mean, Robin Get was familiar
Speaker 3: with the West suburbs too, but that was the core
Speaker 3: ell his brother's stomping ground. Their dad was a Greek immigrant.
Speaker 3: The mother died years ago. I think Andy kok Corialis
Speaker 3: was nineteen at the time. He had a brother, Tommy,
Speaker 3: who later became implicated. So now Spreutzer, and to be
Speaker 3: clear to you, Spreutzer was probably half retarded. He probably
Speaker 3: was one of these people we probably had like a
Speaker 3: seventy IQ or something. Okay, And so he starts rambling
Speaker 3: trying to you know, see, he starts telling all kinds
Speaker 3: of different stories, all of which now seemed to remove
Speaker 3: Get from the narrative out of apparent fear of Get,
Speaker 3: which the detectives again didn't understand because Gekt was this
Speaker 3: sort of effeminatee little weasel. But they go see Andy
Speaker 3: kok Corialis at his father's house. They identify themselves, you know,
Speaker 3: as police. This is Chicago p he Villa Park wanted
Speaker 3: a piece of him two but obviously Chicagwood priority because
Speaker 3: they had a far larger file and they have the
Speaker 3: allegations are far more numerous. He was only good for
Speaker 3: the one homicide potentially in Nolla Park. But the Corey
Speaker 3: Elis They get him in an interrogation room and uh
Speaker 3: he uh he comes cleaning uh essentially immediately, you know,
Speaker 3: they say, you know, you have any idea why you're here,
Speaker 3: And he's like, yeah, uh, it's thing to say, Okay,
Speaker 3: why why do you think you're here? You know? And
Speaker 3: he said, uh, I've been I've been murdering women with
Speaker 3: you know, Robin and Spritzer for months, and I dream
Speaker 3: about every night and I know I'm going to go
Speaker 3: to hell. Corielis also made Gek for blowing away to
Speaker 3: random guys and Rigivo, who apparently he had no connection
Speaker 3: due but Gek always went around strapped. He had a
Speaker 3: rifle like I think it was a Mini fourteen or
Speaker 3: something kind of some kind of clinking rifle, and a
Speaker 3: h and a handgun of some sort with him and uh,
Speaker 3: Coriolis And this is apparently true because this you know, this,
Speaker 3: this this murder had been assumed it would be a
Speaker 3: some sort of gangster related ship, but it went unsolved.
Speaker 3: There's these two guys at a payphone. I think they
Speaker 3: I think they were lad In Kings and apparently Gek
Speaker 3: just spontaneously blasted at him. The one guy survived with
Speaker 3: brain damage was paralyzed. The other guy died at the scene.
Speaker 3: But just give an idea of how bizarre get Wise
Speaker 3: and how violent he was. I it speculated he probably
Speaker 3: in addition to these horrible, horrible sex crimes murders, he
Speaker 3: probably want a lot of other people too, just for
Speaker 3: the hell of it, or or a test, you know
Speaker 3: who he was with to see if you know, they
Speaker 3: they had the stomach probably wanted to do. I mean,
Speaker 3: who knows, but they they started asking that Coreel was
Speaker 3: about these fact patterns they've been related to them by Spritzer.
Speaker 3: Despite Spritzer's lack of overall lucidity, he described discrete victim
Speaker 3: profiles and women that they killed with very particular characteristics.
Speaker 3: And it turns out that the even woman he was
Speaker 3: talking about was a woman named Schuie Mack and she
Speaker 3: had a fight with her brother. They both worked at
Speaker 3: their parents' restaurant and in a haff at a stop
Speaker 3: like she got out of the car and uh was
Speaker 3: walking down Irving Park Road and she had the horror
Speaker 3: of misfortune to be picked up by the ripper crew.
Speaker 3: And Corey Alis said, yeah, I grabbed her, I pulled
Speaker 3: her into the van. You know, he's like, I started
Speaker 3: punched her in the face to saidd her. He hit
Speaker 3: her so hard that when her body was found there
Speaker 3: was this bizarre horseshoe shaped fracture in the back of
Speaker 3: her head. They later figured out Corey Ali said hit
Speaker 3: her so hard her head hit the uh door hinge
Speaker 3: of the van from the inside and a crack of
Speaker 3: stone and killed her. But uh, you know, it was
Speaker 3: clear that it was clear that he was uh probably
Speaker 3: telling the truth.
Speaker 1: And uh.
Speaker 3: The police said, okay, well, why why did you do
Speaker 3: these things? He said, well, for the for the purpose
Speaker 3: of ceremonies. And the police said, what what do you
Speaker 3: mean And he said, well, Gekt has power over me
Speaker 3: and he might have power over you too. Don't look
Speaker 3: him in the eyes. He's demonically possessed. The detective said, okay, whatever,
Speaker 3: what what do you mean by ceremonies? And this this
Speaker 3: is disgusting. I'm gonna warn you. Coriel is related to
Speaker 3: that Ghak had a Satanic altar in his addict in
Speaker 3: his attic, and with the severed brass and other body parts,
Speaker 3: he'd perform a ritual over them, where he'd read Bible passages,
Speaker 3: often backwards. He'd chant something in Latin. Then he'd ejaculate
Speaker 3: on the dismembered body part, cut it into pieces, and
Speaker 3: the ripper crew would then eat it. As a Satanic
Speaker 3: offering a Satanic communion, and the police weren't shocked because
Speaker 3: again these were Bureau detectives, veterans, but they'd never heard
Speaker 3: of anything like this. And frankly, why would anybody make
Speaker 3: that up? I mean, this guy who's implicated himself and
Speaker 3: this serons was went on. I had the death penalty
Speaker 3: and Andy Coo Corielis eventually was executed. But even even
Speaker 3: somebody with the sickest of lord fantasies, I mean, why,
Speaker 3: why don't even occur to somebody? And this gets worse
Speaker 3: if you can believe that. They said, okay, give us
Speaker 3: something else to validate what you're telling us, and he said, okay, well,
Speaker 3: part of what we do before the ceremony is after
Speaker 3: we dismember the breast or create a stab wound, we
Speaker 3: have sexual intercourse with the wound. And the woman's body
Speaker 3: that was found in Villa Park there was seminal fluid
Speaker 3: present in the wound, and this befuddled investigators. I mean, this,
Speaker 3: this is beyond sick, you know, and apparently, I mean
Speaker 3: obviously Andy core also was an animal and then and
Speaker 3: an evil, evil, evil savage, but he was raised in
Speaker 3: a tritional Greek household. He claimed to be ah to
Speaker 3: believe in God, he was traumatized by his own savagery
Speaker 3: and apparently at something of a guilty conscience. Okay, and finally,
Speaker 3: what what made this even more unbelievable is Eddie Spritzer.
Speaker 3: He continued to try and remove get from the scene
Speaker 3: and these rambling confessions that all seemed to contradict each other,
Speaker 3: with the one common variable being that these are real
Speaker 3: victim profiles. He was describing of women who had been
Speaker 3: found murdered or were missing. He said, oh, and you know,
Speaker 3: Andy's brother Tommy helped out sometimes too. So the police
Speaker 3: go back to the CoA Corelis house where there this
Speaker 3: poor old Greek guy has just found out that his
Speaker 3: one son is confessing the Satanic murders, that his other
Speaker 3: son is being imple located. But at that time Tommy
Speaker 3: wasn't suspected of anything beyond what sprites Or had said,
Speaker 3: and the police weren't even confident that this was true.
Speaker 3: But essentially, the moment they asked Tommy to come talk
Speaker 3: to them, they made it clear not under arrest, but
Speaker 3: we got to clear this up. You know, Tommy confessed
Speaker 3: to participating and Tommy didn't he uh, he did thirty
Speaker 3: five years on a seventy year bit. He just got
Speaker 3: released a few years back. And a bunch of people
Speaker 3: protested that just uh apropos and nothing. I followed that
Speaker 3: kind of avidly in it. It was upsetting for this
Speaker 3: stuff to be I mean locally he brought up again.
Speaker 2: But the.
Speaker 3: What Tommy confessed to out of the gate, there's this
Speaker 3: poor girl named Lorraine Barowski and Elmhurst, which is well,
Speaker 3: you know, it's a working class suburb out west, but
Speaker 3: it's you know, it's a nice community. She was kidnapped
Speaker 3: and broad daylight outside of a Remax office where she worked,
Speaker 3: and her boss when he arrived at work that morning,
Speaker 3: she was nowhere to be found, which was totally unlike
Speaker 3: her because she'd never missed work, even showed up late.
Speaker 3: In the parking lot, there is contents of a woman's
Speaker 3: purse and there's a flahead screwdriver, and this becomes relevant.
Speaker 3: It's as a piece of inculpatory evidence, and I'll explain
Speaker 3: that in a moment. And Lorraine had been missing for
Speaker 3: almost a year, and it was as if she disappeared
Speaker 3: into thin air. And Tommy said that they'd been passing by,
Speaker 3: and Lorraine was really beautiful, and she fit a profile
Speaker 3: of what Robin get De liked. She was petite, but
Speaker 3: kirby and busty and essentially gets it. I want her,
Speaker 3: so Tommy and sprites her, grabbed her, pulled her into
Speaker 3: the man. You know, they beat her, handcuffed her, bound her.
Speaker 3: That night, they took her, you know, they were holding
Speaker 3: her hostage. They took her the Rip van Winkle Motel,
Speaker 3: which is still open. And I was kind of horrified
Speaker 3: to find out that murder tourists go there because of
Speaker 3: this case. I've got I've got nothing wrong with visiting
Speaker 3: infamous crime scenes because I've done it. But the way
Speaker 3: people talked about this and yelp and stuff I found
Speaker 3: to be really tasteless. But Tommy said, they took Lorraine
Speaker 3: Boreowski to the Rip van Winklin Hotel and they gang
Speaker 3: raped her. They severed or breast with piano wire, They
Speaker 3: had sexual intercourse with the wound, and get hacked her
Speaker 3: to death by hitting her in the throat with a
Speaker 3: hand as and then they disposed of the body in
Speaker 3: a cemetery. Get there to think about cemeteries too. When
Speaker 3: he said, if you dump bodies in proximity to cemeteries.
Speaker 3: As long as it's not within the normal we're out
Speaker 3: of the maintenance workers, it will go and discovered for
Speaker 3: long enough for animal predation and the elements to get
Speaker 3: rid of evidence. And sure enough Lorraine Barowski was found
Speaker 3: at the cemetery. The screwdriver was significant because gets Van
Speaker 3: he'd rigged it up so that victims couldn't open the
Speaker 3: doors from the from it within, and he'd he'd jerry
Speaker 3: rigged the lock mechanism so that you could open it
Speaker 3: from outside with a flathead screwdriver. So this, this random
Speaker 3: flathead being with Lorraine Barowski's belongings became a highly significant
Speaker 3: obviously in circumstantial but I when women don't when women
Speaker 3: don't carry flatting stream drivers. In the purposal, KK, you
Speaker 3: had to I will die in that hill, but uh,
Speaker 3: let me find place here in my O. I'm sorry,
Speaker 3: and Andy could porealis. He confess to the murder of
Speaker 3: rose Beck Davis, which was the most brazen of what
Speaker 3: the Ripper Crew did. Rush Street, which to this day
Speaker 3: is to remain something of the entertainment district. It's way
Speaker 3: less so than in the in the old days, but
Speaker 3: in the early eighties. It was very very much happening.
Speaker 3: And you know, uh, you're in the heart of downtown.
Speaker 3: There rose Big Davis with this business lady who's attending
Speaker 3: some conference and she'd just been grabbed off the street.
Speaker 3: Same uh sort of assault demo dumped in an alleyway.
Speaker 3: That happened in area six. And uh, the connection wasn't
Speaker 3: made to any other you know, any any other homicides.
Speaker 3: And that was part of what if you know the
Speaker 3: g R if you don't have the geography Chicago shoeing
Speaker 3: Mack was killed in Barrington, which is way west Bill
Speaker 3: of Park, what is outside the city limits, you know,
Speaker 3: but bordering approximate on the west side, you know, Rush
Speaker 3: Street is you know, like I said in the Stars
Speaker 3: Throw from the Loop, they were doing this h in
Speaker 3: such a widely dispersed hunting ground. Not to be flippant,
Speaker 3: that had the effect of of confusing the fat pattern.
Speaker 3: And also it wasn't DNA is overstated, and how it's
Speaker 3: utilized in court it's over persuasive and triers e fact,
Speaker 3: but not not just lay juries but judges as well.
Speaker 3: They do it in binary terms, which is really bad. However,
Speaker 3: obviously it's a highly useful tool, particularly when discussing sexual
Speaker 3: crimes like these. You know, you couldn't, uh you could, uh,
Speaker 3: I think you could. I mean if you could type
Speaker 3: blood group from blood sample in nineteen eighty two. I
Speaker 3: believe if the contributor was a secretor, you could type
Speaker 3: blood from seamen as well. But that was it. You know,
Speaker 3: a blood group, doesn't I mean you're talking about millions
Speaker 3: of potential suspects. I mean you can you can exclude somebody,
Speaker 3: you know, as this the Donnor, but that's about it.
Speaker 3: But it was uh and obviously this was before the
Speaker 3: ubiquity of CCTV and pre cell phones and things, but
Speaker 3: just the same, what these guys are doing was incredibly brazen.
Speaker 3: It's it's sort amazing that they were able to get
Speaker 3: away with with some of these abductions and things. Aska
Speaker 3: Coriealis Andy co Corielis continued, He attested and took ownership
Speaker 3: of eighteen murders, but he said, we've done so many,
Speaker 3: I probably have lost track. You know. The police, Uh,
Speaker 3: the police cast they cast Spritzer as an abject simpleton.
Speaker 3: They cast Gaged as stone cold and hard as ice.
Speaker 3: They they portrayed Andy as a punk, but I don't
Speaker 3: think that's the whole story, you know, and he, uh,
Speaker 3: he went to his death pretty stoically, and the Barowski
Speaker 3: family was there to witness of execution. I think they
Speaker 3: were the only impacted victims.
Speaker 4: Well, if I remember correctly, he seems from what limited
Speaker 4: information I've been able to find on it, it's sort
Speaker 4: of a conversion. After his arrest.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 4: You know, he famously, you know, read out a few
Speaker 4: passages from scripture and you know, basically threw himself on
Speaker 4: the mercy of the victims family.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, and he apologized them without eschewing responsibility. And
Speaker 3: he his spiritual advisor. And under under Illinois law, when
Speaker 3: we when we have the Death Menal League as well
Speaker 3: as you know the fourteenth Amendment, you've got a right
Speaker 3: to a spiritual advisor if you're under it. DEA's and
Speaker 3: it was this Orthodox priest, and you know, the the Orthodox,
Speaker 3: unlike the the Roman Catholic Church was the Roman Catholics
Speaker 3: have adopted a categorically anti death penalty stance. And I
Speaker 3: know a lot of our Catholic friends strongly object to that,
Speaker 3: but the Orthodox, they don't have that perspective. And this
Speaker 3: this Orthonox priest who was his spiritual advisor. He he
Speaker 3: was emphatic that Corialis was repentant, and I he certainly
Speaker 3: didn't win any friends by sticking up for Andy co Coriolis.
Speaker 3: And I don't get me wrong, I go Coriolis should
Speaker 3: have been executed, that it was proper and if he,
Speaker 3: if he was surely repentant and came to Christ, that
Speaker 3: makes me happy. But that does nothing to suggests he
Speaker 3: shouldn't have been executed. But I don't. I don't believe
Speaker 3: he was putting on heirs. And there's also no there
Speaker 3: was absolutely no chance he was gonna be manumented. There
Speaker 3: was I mean, why why would he fuck around with
Speaker 3: unrepentant because I want clout from random people?
Speaker 4: That's not especially you know, this would be one thing
Speaker 4: if it were you know, the kind of fevered imaginations
Speaker 4: of you know, the kind of like mid eighties, you know,
Speaker 4: Bible Belt, but you know in New York or sorry,
Speaker 4: in Illinois rather, you know, like sure, it's I realize
Speaker 4: it's it is a you know, Chicago's religious place. But
Speaker 4: that play doesn't quite work the same way, especially if
Speaker 4: you're a Greek guy, right, you know, to me. The
Speaker 4: idea that that was artificial, I think is is I
Speaker 4: can't prove it per se, but it seems kind of
Speaker 4: laughable to me.
Speaker 3: What's like, normies they don't normies don't understand how they
Speaker 3: don't understand the streets, and they don't they don't understand
Speaker 3: really how people convicted a serious crimes function like they
Speaker 3: always claim to everybody in prison claims they're innocent. Actually
Speaker 3: they don't man like at all, you know, and it's
Speaker 3: it's considered kind of a punk moved and insists you
Speaker 3: were you know, wrongfully convicted or whatever. And plus I
Speaker 3: mean at some point it's just a bad look, you know,
Speaker 3: I mean I but yeah, I that's one of the
Speaker 3: things that's, uh, the stirring about this case is I
Speaker 3: you know, again I whether whether Ady Gcriels was a
Speaker 3: punk or not. He was a troubled guy. He he
Speaker 3: was kind of falling victim to his own to his
Speaker 3: own nature in in in you know, but in terms
Speaker 3: of typical streak ship, he probably would have had a
Speaker 3: bad end. But I don't know, he was set in stone.
Speaker 3: He would have ended up doing this stuff. I mean,
Speaker 3: nobody nobody does this stuff. I mean, that's the whole point.
Speaker 3: And to be clear to the Chicago police superintendent back then,
Speaker 3: we don't have a police chief or a police commissioner.
Speaker 3: We have a superintendent in Chicago. He was this guy,
Speaker 3: Richard J. Breezick, and he was he was the youngest
Speaker 3: ever police superintendent. He was thirty seven or something. And
Speaker 3: he took a particular interest in the Ripper Crew case
Speaker 3: because it was all over the news for a minute, okay,
Speaker 3: and obviously there was there was real concern buring on panic.
Speaker 3: You know, are there more of these guys? What's going
Speaker 3: on here? He hold a press conference because and this
Speaker 3: specifically the subject matter was, you know, the press says
Speaker 3: there's been allegations that this this, you know, this was
Speaker 3: the product of a Satanic cult, you know, and ritual
Speaker 3: sacrifice some things. And Breezak he was some sort of prodigy,
Speaker 3: I think he uh, I thank you for a time.
Speaker 3: He was the youngest uh detective and the Detectives Bureau
Speaker 3: of like ever. He he was an alum of John
Speaker 3: Marshall Law School, which I have too, and he and
Speaker 3: he was number one in his class. He uh, like
Speaker 3: John Marshall was not a prestige institution, but but it does.
Speaker 3: But moth cops are not gonna, you know, be number
Speaker 3: one in their class in law school, particularly nearly eighties
Speaker 3: when the curriculum was more competitively rigorous. But you know,
Speaker 3: and he was. He was a big he was a
Speaker 3: big city police. He wasn't he wasn't some he wasn't
Speaker 3: some dumb hic or some simpleton holy roller taken in
Speaker 3: by Satanic panic or whatever the narrative is of people,
Speaker 3: you know. And I mean, that's something I've got to
Speaker 3: emphasize again. And that's really was sort of the motive
Speaker 3: on my end for is bating this whole series is
Speaker 3: this was a real thing and the zeitgeist was shot
Speaker 3: through with it, and it was happening everywhere. You know.
Speaker 3: That's what I'm trying to convey to that unpleasant man
Speaker 3: we talked to the other day. I mean, look, I
Speaker 3: so I'm a little kid, and everybody's terrified that their daughter,
Speaker 3: their mom, and their sister is gonna get grabbed by
Speaker 3: these necrophilic cannibal rapos who who they themselves claim worship Satan.
Speaker 3: Then you know, I go to Ventura in La with
Speaker 3: my folks, you know, a year or two later and
Speaker 3: Richard Umire is you know, slaughtering people in their homes
Speaker 3: and their sleep at night, and you know, forcing them
Speaker 3: to swear to Satan before he does them in you know,
Speaker 3: I I take it personally when people act like I'm
Speaker 3: some kind of idiot or something for pushing back on
Speaker 3: the claim that, oh, everybody who believed that there was
Speaker 3: a call tenantcieson a zeitgeist, You're just some dumb hic
Speaker 3: who doesn't leave his house and believes that the doubles
Speaker 3: after him. I don't know, man, I don't This stuff
Speaker 3: either happened or it didn't.
Speaker 4: And well, and look like I don't have the highest
Speaker 4: opinion of the you know, the moral character of Heraldo Rivera,
Speaker 4: but I somewhat suspect it sort of passed his ability
Speaker 4: to be you know, dozens of places all across the
Speaker 4: US setting up exactly these sort of crimes like maybe
Speaker 4: one or two, you know, in sort of a you
Speaker 4: know night, you can imagine maybe, But clearly this was
Speaker 4: something happening, and that is independent of how certain people
Speaker 4: who were you know, shameless or money hungry reacted to it.
Speaker 4: That's a separate part of that's a separate part of
Speaker 4: the narrative, but the idea that you know, some carnival
Speaker 4: barker exaggerated, lied, or spun it into a convenient narrative,
Speaker 4: and therefore the initial claim is false. That doesn't stand
Speaker 4: up to even you know, let's be honest, like a
Speaker 4: light examination. So I'm curious, Thomas, if you have more
Speaker 4: I guess kind of information on the ringleader. Right, yeah,
Speaker 4: I was gonna get what do we really know about him?
Speaker 3: Gek came from a weird family, apparently the father, and
Speaker 3: a reputation for stepping out on his mom and being
Speaker 3: a big philanderer. Gekt he apparently was sort of a
Speaker 3: non entity in high school. Nobody really remembered him, but
Speaker 3: he got married young and by the time he was
Speaker 3: in his mid twenties here he had a few kids.
Speaker 3: His wife was this bizarre woman who and she tolerated
Speaker 3: him carrying out affairs and again gek t had sex
Speaker 3: with both men and women, and one of his girlfriends
Speaker 3: attested to the fact that he engaged in at least
Speaker 3: one occasion he engaged in beast reality with a canine
Speaker 3: and he tried to get her involved in it, and
Speaker 3: she said, no, you're sick. I'm not doing that. But
Speaker 3: get when he was initially arrested after his idd by,
Speaker 3: you know, his victims survived. Denise Gardner, this woman he'd
Speaker 3: been having an affair with, mortgaged her house to pay
Speaker 3: his bail, I mean, which is bizarre. And his wife,
Speaker 3: he apparently was into really heavy sn M, and he'd
Speaker 3: punish her by forcing her to do things like sticking
Speaker 3: pins in her breast or like flat late herself. And
Speaker 3: she talked to her girlfriends about this like it was normal.
Speaker 3: You know, this guy apparently had you know, he did
Speaker 3: wield power over people. I mean again, I'm not suggesting
Speaker 3: that you know, he he was some sort of sorcerer
Speaker 3: or something, but again, you know the fact that he
Speaker 3: had all these women who were enthralled with him and
Speaker 3: you know, willing to do all these deviant things to
Speaker 3: please his bizarre impulses. And you know, he's got women,
Speaker 3: you know, mortgaging their home to bail him out of jail.
Speaker 3: He's got street dudes like the Coriela's brothers doing incredibly
Speaker 3: deviant criminal things. I mean, there's there's something there, you know,
Speaker 3: And again it's not Gekt Also too, this is a
Speaker 3: bizarre twist. Get one of his kids named David Ghekt.
Speaker 3: He was just a baby when his father went away
Speaker 3: to prison. David Gekt is one can imagine it didn't
Speaker 3: have a happy life. He ended up gang bang and
Speaker 3: I think he was a he was either an ig
Speaker 3: or a maniac lantin disciple. He got convicted of this murder,
Speaker 3: this gang related murder in the late nineties, and he
Speaker 3: got like an eighty year bit. He was wrongfully convicted.
Speaker 3: This one uh, this this one gang task Force Detectives
Speaker 3: Bureau guy essentially framed him up to clear the case.
Speaker 3: And also he I mean his view of almost certainly
Speaker 3: was this kid, some gangbanger shit bag whose dad's a rapo,
Speaker 3: you know, fuck him. But Gek the son he got
Speaker 3: released after doing like twenty three years, you know, and
Speaker 3: and he actually was innocent. This isn't some nonsense like
Speaker 3: West Memphis three. David Ghek was a guy. I mean,
Speaker 3: first of all, I mean, how messed up is this is?
Speaker 3: I mean it's not his fault. His father's an evil
Speaker 3: piece of shit. I mean, like, so he's growing up
Speaker 3: in that with that over his head. He uh, the hood.
Speaker 3: He grew up. He grew up in Belmont Creigen, which
Speaker 3: uh was a working class white hood. Now it's very
Speaker 3: Spanish and uh, especially in the nineties, there was a
Speaker 3: lot like everybody was gangbanging there. And but that's that
Speaker 3: that this is an interesting factoid. But no, Deck himself
Speaker 3: had a and apparently Deck Robin Gek he he was
Speaker 3: he was a skilled carpenter, you know. I mean, he
Speaker 3: had his own business. He was good at what he did,
Speaker 3: you know, and that's why, uh, I mean, as was Gaysey,
Speaker 3: you know, I mean what one of the things that
Speaker 3: is made Gaycy dangerous is he was an effective person.
Speaker 3: And especially he went from you know, he he did
Speaker 3: time in Iowa for for a sex offense. Cause back Jillen,
Speaker 3: NOI he gets a job as a short order cook.
Speaker 3: But I mean, if he was a skilled tradesman, you know,
Speaker 3: he did good work, and Gek seems like something a
Speaker 3: similar profile.
Speaker 2: But he.
Speaker 3: It's uh. But other than that, Get is something of
Speaker 3: a mystery. I mean, obviously, what what people are gonna
Speaker 3: emphasize after the fact is the dving aspects and whatever
Speaker 3: human aspects are present that would, you know and uncontroversially
Speaker 3: be viewed as normal are going to be minimized. But uh,
Speaker 3: in Deek's case, I think that it really is kind
Speaker 3: of a question mark and and say it's about in prison,
Speaker 3: he's he's working at the factor like sentence. He got
Speaker 3: something like one hundred and thirty years even though he
Speaker 3: didn't he was never gonna get a homicide. But he's
Speaker 3: he's base. He said nothing since he's been incarcerated. You know,
Speaker 3: the whole thing is very strange. I mean to say
Speaker 3: the least, I mean, be on the obvious.
Speaker 4: But it you know, well, and that's the thing that
Speaker 4: sort of stuck out to me about this is that,
Speaker 4: you know, all three of the other men implicated the
Speaker 4: moment they got in front of the police, were just
Speaker 4: spilling their guts, whereas Get basically said nothing from the
Speaker 4: moment he was arrested till now.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and the the the Bureau detectives, they the uh,
Speaker 3: the Area five command or of the detectives Bureau. He
Speaker 3: took a crack a Get, despite the fact that that's
Speaker 3: generally not done because you don't want micromanager detectives and
Speaker 3: it's and what have you. But the the guy was
Speaker 3: so strange and even even a hardened street dude was
Speaker 3: in the game, which Get was not I mean, if
Speaker 3: you're if you got if you're employee custody and they're
Speaker 3: saying they think you're good for multiple homicides, you're you're
Speaker 3: gonna be sweating me, and you're especially then again, that's
Speaker 3: that's when Illinois was a death penalty state. You know
Speaker 3: the fact that nobody got any read on Ghek and
Speaker 3: he just he was basically like almost apathetic. You know,
Speaker 3: there's something like a lot of evil people. He had
Speaker 3: some sort of power, and albeit of a perverse sort
Speaker 3: and not amirable sorty, and some kind of spiritual or interdiscipline.
Speaker 3: I mean, it's possible to have it's possible to be
Speaker 3: a spiritual adept, but to be evil, you know, I
Speaker 3: And it's some you know, I mean that's what Yeah.
Speaker 3: Pull up the picture of the Ripper Crew if you
Speaker 3: would please. Yeah, I mean, just like one man doing
Speaker 3: this well along with Ghek could be strange enough, but
Speaker 3: you know they have three other men with really with
Speaker 3: no criminal record either. Granted Andy and Tommy were young.
Speaker 3: That's Andy on the far left that sprites are on
Speaker 3: the far right. Then that's Tommy and get you know,
Speaker 3: he had uh, he had he had some juvenile incidents
Speaker 3: for fighting and stuff and you know, petty crime. But
Speaker 3: to go from for your first major crime to be
Speaker 3: homicide and not just homicide but murder of a woman,
Speaker 3: and not just murder but rape on top of that,
Speaker 3: and then well also too, I mean not not to
Speaker 3: rehash truly disgusting aspects of this case, but even even
Speaker 3: a sexual sadist, I mean, who, who who would want
Speaker 3: to and insert his genitals into a knife wound and
Speaker 3: not just do that, but do it in the presence
Speaker 3: of other guys and one after the other, Like, I mean,
Speaker 3: who that? That's so bizarre it almost defies reason. Like
Speaker 3: if this hadn't happened, if some if some sicko transgressive
Speaker 3: fiction author wrote out this fact pattern, people would be like,
Speaker 3: that's not credible, that's just gross and pornographic. Nobody would
Speaker 3: do that, you know, But it happened. Then again, this
Speaker 3: wasn't some I'll give you this in part two. We'll
Speaker 3: deal with the trials in part two. As this wasn't
Speaker 3: just some afterthought either. Core Corey Ellis was emphatic and
Speaker 3: ultimately Spikeser was too. The purpose of this memberment was
Speaker 3: this masturbatory and cannibal ritual under ausmuses of Satanic communion.
Speaker 3: That was the point of the dismemberment. You know, Robin
Speaker 3: get was on a call to this through and through.
Speaker 3: That's why he was doing these things as a sacrifice
Speaker 3: and a uh an offering to the devil or whatever.
Speaker 3: Well love what deityes he believed he was in content
Speaker 3: with I think you're mute at.
Speaker 4: Homie, incredibly professional podcasting moment. But one of the things
Speaker 4: you'll you'll hear people say is, oh, you know, these
Speaker 4: these guys were just crazy, right, they were. They were
Speaker 4: just nut cases. They were just lunatics. And I mean
Speaker 4: zoom out a little bit. I mean yeah, kind of
Speaker 4: like no normally quote unquote well adjusted person would do this.
Speaker 3: Fair.
Speaker 4: But also, you know how many well adjusted people are
Speaker 4: se out the occult are seeking out? You know, is
Speaker 4: some sort of like you know, relationship with with dark powers.
Speaker 4: It's like, well in, no shit, but that is sort
Speaker 4: of indeterminate, That is is sort of unrelated to one.
Speaker 4: Do these guys believe that what they're doing is part
Speaker 4: of a ritual setting aside any theological claim or two,
Speaker 4: If you do believe it, the fact that the guys
Speaker 4: are a little cracked is almost unrelated to what they
Speaker 4: are actually doing. And to me very much, the kind
Speaker 4: of like, oh, they're just crazy, is is sort of
Speaker 4: a cop out, right, It's sort of a because yeah, sure.
Speaker 3: Somebody, no, no, you're good, somebody. Okay, if if if
Speaker 3: somebody goes out and commits murder because he believes that
Speaker 3: if he doesn't, you know, God has told him to
Speaker 3: his television that the world will end. Okay, Yeah, I'll
Speaker 3: accept that that's insanity as a matter of law, and
Speaker 3: colloquially that person's crazy. If you're doing things like these
Speaker 3: guys were doing that, that's not mental illness, it's it's
Speaker 3: it's evil taking what's ultimate, depraved extreme, whereby one drives
Speaker 3: satisfaction from a disgusting paraphilia that they believe is serving
Speaker 3: some sort of aesthetical or supernatural imperative. You know, I
Speaker 3: don't I that that's very much like a progressivest an
Speaker 3: enlightenment conceit that everything has some sort of illness. You know,
Speaker 3: if you know you're if you're if you're deeving or evil,
Speaker 3: it's because you're sick or there's some sort of mental disturbance.
Speaker 3: What's also too, I don't believe so there's so there's
Speaker 3: these four guys who just sort of come together in
Speaker 3: a greater metro area of five million people, and they're
Speaker 3: all under the same sort of mental illness that tends
Speaker 3: towards the most bizarre and sick paraphelia you can possibly imagine.
Speaker 3: I mean, that doesn't seem credible.
Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly, So obviously we will continue with this series.
Speaker 4: You guys want to find Thomas. He's got his website,
Speaker 4: he's got a substack, got a YouTube channel now where
Speaker 4: you've been putting up a lot of your your backlog content.
Speaker 4: So if you've you've missed out on the last season
Speaker 4: of Mind Phaser, you can get those now. Highly recommend
Speaker 4: you guys check those out. As far as my stuff,
Speaker 4: Jay Burdon show, Apple, Spotify, YouTube, anywhere you listen to podcasts,
Speaker 4: this is what I do full time now. If you
Speaker 4: want to support me, throw me a few bucks on Patreon,
Speaker 4: substack or gum road. Get the episodes early in ad free.
Speaker 3: Look.
Speaker 4: I know the ads on the podcast are annoying, but
Speaker 4: I got a mortgage and my other options are even
Speaker 4: more embarrassing than running ads. So yeah, sorry, I guess anyway, Thomas,
Speaker 4: this has been interesting, if not exactly uplifting, but it's
Speaker 4: been great to have you back on man appreciate it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you, buddy.
Speaker 4: Ever been at home. Keep your head up. I can't
Speaker 4: last forever. Good Night,