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Speaker 3: Meaning a live man like this.
Speaker 4: Man you letting butterfly flapping his wing, dig down in
the forest. Man, it gonna cause the tree fall, letting
five thousand miles away.
Speaker 3: Man, nobody see nobody. You don't need to know. Man,
We don't like you followed a little story and you
got bacted like that. Man, Man go back and dang
on pane Man, no matter.
Speaker 4: Man, all right, Thomas, welcome back to Jay Burton Show.
How are you doing?
Speaker 3: Man, doing well? Thanks for hosting me.
Speaker 4: Yeah, Man, I'm excited to have you back on. We're
continuing our series The New Case. I look, this whole
series has been grim, this episode particularly even more so
so of course, you know, fewer discretion advised, maybe not
one to include the kids on. But I'll throw it
to you, Thoms.
Speaker 3: Yeah, this, this fact pattern is particularly horrific. And this
really disgusting. But and I'm not I didn't select it
as an important aspect of the series to be worried
or as quick bait because it's a gross case. It's
it was, it's a case in point the case and
point I'd argue whether than there were Mira's case of
occultism in the zeitgeist in the public mind informing truly
evil behavior, and the Ripper Crew, as they came to
be known. This was four men doing this and without
naming any names. There's people who insist that not only
is there no such thing as a cult crime, but
there's no such thing as ritual cult activity involving multiple offenders. Well,
this is a splendid rebuttal to that little assertion, and
it also exemplifies how violent things were. And that's one
of the reasons why outside Chicago this didn't really get play.
And even in Chicago, this happened at the same These
murders were happening at the same time as the Tail
and Old poisoning, which was a national story, and that
caused genuine panic here on the ground in Shoe Town.
And then when these sick animals went on trial it
was the able Archer era. People were terrified of how
that was going to shake out, you know, with Cold
War tensions reaching critical mass and scene since ninety's seventy
three and adding to the bizarre lore. I've heard conflicting
reports on this, but a deep dived into this and
apparently it's true according to WLS, which was the primary
investigative of a legacy media brand here on the ground.
Robin get who was the leader of the Ripper Crew
when he was a teenager, he apparently worked for John
Wayne Gacy and Get was he was married to a woman,
but he was he was bisexual and he hung around
with gay people.
Speaker 4: So question about working with Gaysey. Was that involved in
kind of the I guess like Chicago Democrat leadership role
that he was in, or as like a franchise owner.
Speaker 3: No, he worked for Gaysey when he was a teenager,
just for his like painting and construction company because ghekt
was a carpenter and he was he was the kind
of guy that Gacy preferred. I mean one of the
things that's the bizarre o Ghektes. He had this incredible
ability to control people. But he was this tiny little guy.
He was like five foot and noth then really skinny.
He's what'd be called a twink these days. Okay, he
was kind of this he was almost like pre you know,
he's like this a feminine guy. So this idea that
he could intimidate these you know, and the Corealis brothers
who were sort of the muscle of the Ripper Crew.
There were these They were these Greek tough guys from
the northwest side. The idea Get could intimidate people into
doing things by his physicality is ridiculous. You know, He's
the kind of guy that the co Corielis brothers could
have broken half. You know. The way he could dominate
people suggest something really sinister and bizarre. I'm not saying
anything super natural, but there's something there. But he yeah,
I but I mean the people these days when true
crime fanatics come across some of these content creators, especially
younger people. This isn't some slam on young people, but
they think it's this insane cosmic coincidence that get apparently
across pads with gay Zy. It's not though it test
them into the fact that this this kind of thing
was common, which is horrifying.
Speaker 4: But that's well, and not to spin this off into
its own direction. But obviously, the the sort of rumors
and allegations around Gaysey that he was not a loan operator,
you know, given the there's a whole number of suspicious
things about that.
Speaker 3: You know, the.
Speaker 4: Dozens of different keys to his house, the connections to
kind of a you know, a snuff film ring discussion
for another day, But critics have made, uh made allegations
on that, I'll put it that way.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, And I it seems to imagine, especially if
Gek was involved sexually with gay Sy. It's I realized this.
It's a pure speculation. It seems to imagine gay Sy
sort of initiating him into this sort of statistic stuff.
Albeit you know, Ghek's victim profile was women, but it Yeah,
I definitely think it's it's more it's a case. It
goes beyond whether it smoke, there's fire. I think there's
real there's real evidence that Gaysey had accomplices, and I
I think that can't be denied. But serious people anymore.
But basically, the way the Ripper Crew came of the
attention of law enforcement, this woman's body was discovered in
Villa Park. Villa Park is a West suburb and especially
in those is there was a strip of notel motels
where you could cop dope, where you know, you could
take prostitutes, but there was a lot of just grimy
kind of vice activity. Bensonville is kind of like that
today by the airport, so not serious crying, but a
lot of advice, a lot of drugs and dope stuff
they caught. The strip was called by street people's the
Gods a strip. But this woman's body was found behind
one of these motels. It's still it was then it
was called the moon Lit Motel. It's it's been branded
something different now. But at first glance it appeared as
if this woman had been dead for some time because
the body was heavily decomposed. She was a prostitute named
wind Of Sutton from the West Side, which was odd
that she'd end up that far. Villa Park's not super
far from the West Side proper, but it's not a
place of prostitute which just traveled as service in John
you know. And her name was Linda Sutton. She still
had her cash in her socks, so she hadn't been robbed.
The coroner, owing to very diligent examination and a strong
base of knowledge, he realized this woman hadn't been dead
for a long time. She'd only been dead for two
or three days. What had happened to her? And then
again this is very grotesque. Her breast had been totally severed,
and owing to that, insects and various microbes and parasites
were able to invade the corpse and deteriorate the remains rapidly,
so at first the police and again in Villa Park.
They probably get one or two homicides a year even
back then, and it was in the form of bar
fights or some sort of domestic dispute that turns into
a murder. These kinds of random homicides didn't really happen,
certainly not dead hookers, where you know, body parts are
removed as a trophy, fetish object, and that's kind of
This was kind of forgotten about until several months later
in the fall of nineteen eighty two. October, a woman
named Denise Gardner, she got snatched up by a guy
in a red van and she was she survived the attack.
And what she relayed was a red van had approached
her on West North Avenue, which was her regular stroll,
and she said, a little white guy who was at
the wheel, you know, and he he solicited the act
he wanted and she gave him the price. He paid her.
He said, get in. She got into the van. It
was a carpenter's van and it had a partition and
she had the wherewithal to remember odd details about it.
There's been a roach clip hanging from two blue feathers
from the rear view, and this becomes significant how the
van was identified. He said something of the effect of,
you know, fex yourself a drank, or why don't you
get in the back and get comfortable, and I'll be
there in a minute. When I park. She went in
the back, the guy pulled a gun, started pistel whipping her.
Then he forth pills down her throat and she passed out.
You know, she was fading out. He continued to piss
the whipper. She woke up in an alleyway, only a
few bucks from the stroll and uh, she'd been savagely
assaulted and one of her breasts was removed. Okay, somebody
found her before she bled out. It was a streets
and Sanitation guy who called it in and she identified
uh to the police from her hospital bed. You know,
the man who's ultimately identified as Robin Get Okay, and uh,
she said it was a seventy six or seventy seven
or seventy eight van. Hookers get to know cars real well.
He s they did in those days because they're constant
getting in and out of them, and if something seems
suss or scary to him, they like hit other females
on that hustle. Hey watch out for like the seventy
nine you know corvetor or whatever, which is an interesting factoid.
But that's how she was able to make the man.
You know, she described get physically. You know, she described
the roach clip, all of that. So a few weeks later,
on October twentieth, why'd you between these two murders or
between this one assault and this murder and bill apart
like no connect himp in media. But these two Chicago
police they were on Lake Short Drive and they come
across as a red van and I think it was
the There were past and the red van got off
the drive. They followed it to Central Avenue, and uh,
they realized it was an apb out for a red
or dark orange van with a partition and with the
you know, a roche clib with blue feathers. So they
pull up next to it, they see the feathers. They
pull a van over, pull a driver out, and there's
a guy there driving and who doesn't fit the description
at all that Denise Gardner gave. It was some guy
who they was, you know, probably his late teens, with goofy,
wild red hair, and h is idea indicated his name
was Eddie Sprecher. And when the police says, this is
your van, he said, no, it's my boss. It's van.
So these two police say, well, who's your boss. He says, oh,
my boss is Robin get So. The police say, well,
you know, you know you're gonna take us to Robin
get So he takes him to this house on a
north winder, the three thousand a north winder and uh,
when they get there, they have Eddie knock on the door.
Get comes out. He fits the description to a t
that Denise Gardener he gave him. The cops say, you
know your your van was or a van fitting this
description was implicated in a very serious crime. I Get
apparently was tobably lack a daizagle about it. He comes
to the police station and uh, the police's first impression
was this guy's probably just a freak who likes to
hurd hookers. And it just got a little bit out
of hand with the niece Gardner. But as they talked
of Spritzer, it became clear that Spreeiser was terrified and
Obviously that didn't seem normal, and it's why why would
you be terrified of this little feminine guy if you
even accuse your boss or whatever. As time went on,
Spritzer said that he wanted to confess, and the police said,
confess to what You're not suspected of anything, And Spiders said, well,
we killed a girl, and we killed a black girl
and dunked her, and uh, Villa Park, we killed an
Asian girl out in the West Suburbs too. We killed
some rich lady that we grabbed off Rush Street. He
confessed to almost twenty homicides. You and the police are
just aghast. So they start looking for a you know,
trying to match this these these claims to see if
they're a loser you're not, and see if there's any
fact patterns in Chicago and Greater Chicago and that matched
these claims, and of course, what you know, this this
Villa Park murder comes up immediately with the dismembered breast,
and uh, they realize they they they have, they have
they probably have two serial killers on their hands. But
then it gets even more bizarre because this is Area
five homicide. There used to be six police areas now
there's only five and uh, they've been reconfigured a bit,
but there's not there's not a homicide division of Chicago PD.
There's a duro of detectives. They're basically the major crimes unit,
and they get homicides. And area five is northwest and uh,
that's that's not that's not a hood area. But it's
a prestige posting. And especially in those days, you get
a pretty high caliber of guys on that detail. Okay,
but even they it was unfathomble of them that that
there'd be more than two guys doing this together. But
so they just said, but still the police have this idea.
Let's take Eddie sprites Or and put in the room.
Put him in the room with Robin ghet and let's
see how Let's let's see if they go at each other.
Let's see if they try and blame each other. Let's
see what Ghekt if he if he starts confessing after
we say that Spritzers made him for you know, eighteen
murders or whatever, so he claims. So they take Spritzer
in there and they said Ghek just looked at him calmly,
and they said Spritzer started visibly shaking, and one of
the detectives says, you know, tell tell your pell Robin,
what what you just told us? And Spritzer says, rob
and I told them about all the girls, and Get
just said, I have no idea what you're talking about.
You know, no anger, no visible. He wasn't visible. We shook,
nothing like that. So then when they takes Spritzer back
to his his own interrogation room, Spritzer says, you know what,
you know what I lied? I lied? Robin wasn't there.
I did these homicides with with Andy kak Coriolis, as
the police say, like, who the fuck is Andy kok Corialis. Well,
as it turns out, Andy kok Corialis was another employee
of Robin Gets, although when they asked him at first,
Gex said he was just this kid that he knew
who used to be as a neighbor. Coo. Coriolis was
a villa park guy, which uh accounts for the connection
of the moonlit motel. I mean, Robin Get was familiar
with the West suburbs too, but that was the core
ell his brother's stomping ground. Their dad was a Greek immigrant.
The mother died years ago. I think Andy kok Corialis
was nineteen at the time. He had a brother, Tommy,
who later became implicated. So now Spreutzer, and to be
clear to you, Spreutzer was probably half retarded. He probably
was one of these people we probably had like a
seventy IQ or something. Okay, And so he starts rambling
trying to you know, see, he starts telling all kinds
of different stories, all of which now seemed to remove
Get from the narrative out of apparent fear of Get,
which the detectives again didn't understand because Gekt was this
sort of effeminatee little weasel. But they go see Andy
kok Corialis at his father's house. They identify themselves, you know,
as police. This is Chicago p he Villa Park wanted
a piece of him two but obviously Chicagwood priority because
they had a far larger file and they have the
allegations are far more numerous. He was only good for
the one homicide potentially in Nolla Park. But the Corey
Elis They get him in an interrogation room and uh
he uh he comes cleaning uh essentially immediately, you know,
they say, you know, you have any idea why you're here,
And he's like, yeah, uh, it's thing to say, Okay,
why why do you think you're here? You know? And
he said, uh, I've been I've been murdering women with
you know, Robin and Spritzer for months, and I dream
about every night and I know I'm going to go
to hell. Corielis also made Gek for blowing away to
random guys and Rigivo, who apparently he had no connection
due but Gek always went around strapped. He had a
rifle like I think it was a Mini fourteen or
something kind of some kind of clinking rifle, and a
h and a handgun of some sort with him and uh,
Coriolis And this is apparently true because this you know, this,
this this murder had been assumed it would be a
some sort of gangster related ship, but it went unsolved.
There's these two guys at a payphone. I think they
I think they were lad In Kings and apparently Gek
just spontaneously blasted at him. The one guy survived with
brain damage was paralyzed. The other guy died at the scene.
But just give an idea of how bizarre get Wise
and how violent he was. I it speculated he probably
in addition to these horrible, horrible sex crimes murders, he
probably want a lot of other people too, just for
the hell of it, or or a test, you know
who he was with to see if you know, they
they had the stomach probably wanted to do. I mean,
who knows, but they they started asking that Coreel was
about these fact patterns they've been related to them by Spritzer.
Despite Spritzer's lack of overall lucidity, he described discrete victim
profiles and women that they killed with very particular characteristics.
And it turns out that the even woman he was
talking about was a woman named Schuie Mack and she
had a fight with her brother. They both worked at
their parents' restaurant and in a haff at a stop
like she got out of the car and uh was
walking down Irving Park Road and she had the horror
of misfortune to be picked up by the ripper crew.
And Corey Alis said, yeah, I grabbed her, I pulled
her into the van. You know, he's like, I started
punched her in the face to saidd her. He hit
her so hard that when her body was found there
was this bizarre horseshoe shaped fracture in the back of
her head. They later figured out Corey Ali said hit
her so hard her head hit the uh door hinge
of the van from the inside and a crack of
stone and killed her. But uh, you know, it was
clear that it was clear that he was uh probably
telling the truth.
Speaker 1: And uh.
Speaker 3: The police said, okay, well, why why did you do
these things? He said, well, for the for the purpose
of ceremonies. And the police said, what what do you
mean And he said, well, Gekt has power over me
and he might have power over you too. Don't look
him in the eyes. He's demonically possessed. The detective said, okay, whatever,
what what do you mean by ceremonies? And this this
is disgusting. I'm gonna warn you. Coriel is related to
that Ghak had a Satanic altar in his addict in
his attic, and with the severed brass and other body parts,
he'd perform a ritual over them, where he'd read Bible passages,
often backwards. He'd chant something in Latin. Then he'd ejaculate
on the dismembered body part, cut it into pieces, and
the ripper crew would then eat it. As a Satanic
offering a Satanic communion, and the police weren't shocked because
again these were Bureau detectives, veterans, but they'd never heard
of anything like this. And frankly, why would anybody make
that up? I mean, this guy who's implicated himself and
this serons was went on. I had the death penalty
and Andy Coo Corielis eventually was executed. But even even
somebody with the sickest of lord fantasies, I mean, why,
why don't even occur to somebody? And this gets worse
if you can believe that. They said, okay, give us
something else to validate what you're telling us, and he said, okay, well,
part of what we do before the ceremony is after
we dismember the breast or create a stab wound, we
have sexual intercourse with the wound. And the woman's body
that was found in Villa Park there was seminal fluid
present in the wound, and this befuddled investigators. I mean, this,
this is beyond sick, you know, and apparently, I mean
obviously Andy core also was an animal and then and
an evil, evil, evil savage, but he was raised in
a tritional Greek household. He claimed to be ah to
believe in God, he was traumatized by his own savagery
and apparently at something of a guilty conscience. Okay, and finally,
what what made this even more unbelievable is Eddie Spritzer.
He continued to try and remove get from the scene
and these rambling confessions that all seemed to contradict each other,
with the one common variable being that these are real
victim profiles. He was describing of women who had been
found murdered or were missing. He said, oh, and you know,
Andy's brother Tommy helped out sometimes too. So the police
go back to the CoA Corelis house where there this
poor old Greek guy has just found out that his
one son is confessing the Satanic murders, that his other
son is being imple located. But at that time Tommy
wasn't suspected of anything beyond what sprites Or had said,
and the police weren't even confident that this was true.
But essentially, the moment they asked Tommy to come talk
to them, they made it clear not under arrest, but
we got to clear this up. You know, Tommy confessed
to participating and Tommy didn't he uh, he did thirty
five years on a seventy year bit. He just got
released a few years back. And a bunch of people
protested that just uh apropos and nothing. I followed that
kind of avidly in it. It was upsetting for this
stuff to be I mean locally he brought up again.
Speaker 2: But the.
Speaker 3: What Tommy confessed to out of the gate, there's this
poor girl named Lorraine Barowski and Elmhurst, which is well,
you know, it's a working class suburb out west, but
it's you know, it's a nice community. She was kidnapped
and broad daylight outside of a Remax office where she worked,
and her boss when he arrived at work that morning,
she was nowhere to be found, which was totally unlike
her because she'd never missed work, even showed up late.
In the parking lot, there is contents of a woman's
purse and there's a flahead screwdriver, and this becomes relevant.
It's as a piece of inculpatory evidence, and I'll explain
that in a moment. And Lorraine had been missing for
almost a year, and it was as if she disappeared
into thin air. And Tommy said that they'd been passing by,
and Lorraine was really beautiful, and she fit a profile
of what Robin get De liked. She was petite, but
kirby and busty and essentially gets it. I want her,
so Tommy and sprites her, grabbed her, pulled her into
the man. You know, they beat her, handcuffed her, bound her.
That night, they took her, you know, they were holding
her hostage. They took her the Rip van Winkle Motel,
which is still open. And I was kind of horrified
to find out that murder tourists go there because of
this case. I've got I've got nothing wrong with visiting
infamous crime scenes because I've done it. But the way
people talked about this and yelp and stuff I found
to be really tasteless. But Tommy said, they took Lorraine
Boreowski to the Rip van Winklin Hotel and they gang
raped her. They severed or breast with piano wire, They
had sexual intercourse with the wound, and get hacked her
to death by hitting her in the throat with a
hand as and then they disposed of the body in
a cemetery. Get there to think about cemeteries too. When
he said, if you dump bodies in proximity to cemeteries.
As long as it's not within the normal we're out
of the maintenance workers, it will go and discovered for
long enough for animal predation and the elements to get
rid of evidence. And sure enough Lorraine Barowski was found
at the cemetery. The screwdriver was significant because gets Van
he'd rigged it up so that victims couldn't open the
doors from the from it within, and he'd he'd jerry
rigged the lock mechanism so that you could open it
from outside with a flathead screwdriver. So this, this random
flathead being with Lorraine Barowski's belongings became a highly significant
obviously in circumstantial but I when women don't when women
don't carry flatting stream drivers. In the purposal, KK, you
had to I will die in that hill, but uh,
let me find place here in my O. I'm sorry,
and Andy could porealis. He confess to the murder of
rose Beck Davis, which was the most brazen of what
the Ripper Crew did. Rush Street, which to this day
is to remain something of the entertainment district. It's way
less so than in the in the old days, but
in the early eighties. It was very very much happening.
And you know, uh, you're in the heart of downtown.
There rose Big Davis with this business lady who's attending
some conference and she'd just been grabbed off the street.
Same uh sort of assault demo dumped in an alleyway.
That happened in area six. And uh, the connection wasn't
made to any other you know, any any other homicides.
And that was part of what if you know the
g R if you don't have the geography Chicago shoeing
Mack was killed in Barrington, which is way west Bill
of Park, what is outside the city limits, you know,
but bordering approximate on the west side, you know, Rush
Street is you know, like I said in the Stars
Throw from the Loop, they were doing this h in
such a widely dispersed hunting ground. Not to be flippant,
that had the effect of of confusing the fat pattern.
And also it wasn't DNA is overstated, and how it's
utilized in court it's over persuasive and triers e fact,
but not not just lay juries but judges as well.
They do it in binary terms, which is really bad. However,
obviously it's a highly useful tool, particularly when discussing sexual
crimes like these. You know, you couldn't, uh you could, uh,
I think you could. I mean if you could type
blood group from blood sample in nineteen eighty two. I
believe if the contributor was a secretor, you could type
blood from seamen as well. But that was it. You know,
a blood group, doesn't I mean you're talking about millions
of potential suspects. I mean you can you can exclude somebody,
you know, as this the Donnor, but that's about it.
But it was uh and obviously this was before the
ubiquity of CCTV and pre cell phones and things, but
just the same, what these guys are doing was incredibly brazen.
It's it's sort amazing that they were able to get
away with with some of these abductions and things. Aska
Coriealis Andy co Corielis continued, He attested and took ownership
of eighteen murders, but he said, we've done so many,
I probably have lost track. You know. The police, Uh,
the police cast they cast Spritzer as an abject simpleton.
They cast Gaged as stone cold and hard as ice.
They they portrayed Andy as a punk, but I don't
think that's the whole story, you know, and he, uh,
he went to his death pretty stoically, and the Barowski
family was there to witness of execution. I think they
were the only impacted victims.
Speaker 4: Well, if I remember correctly, he seems from what limited
information I've been able to find on it, it's sort
of a conversion. After his arrest.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 4: You know, he famously, you know, read out a few
passages from scripture and you know, basically threw himself on
the mercy of the victims family.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, and he apologized them without eschewing responsibility. And
he his spiritual advisor. And under under Illinois law, when
we when we have the Death Menal League as well
as you know the fourteenth Amendment, you've got a right
to a spiritual advisor if you're under it. DEA's and
it was this Orthodox priest, and you know, the the Orthodox,
unlike the the Roman Catholic Church was the Roman Catholics
have adopted a categorically anti death penalty stance. And I
know a lot of our Catholic friends strongly object to that,
but the Orthodox, they don't have that perspective. And this
this Orthonox priest who was his spiritual advisor. He he
was emphatic that Corialis was repentant, and I he certainly
didn't win any friends by sticking up for Andy co Coriolis.
And I don't get me wrong, I go Coriolis should
have been executed, that it was proper and if he,
if he was surely repentant and came to Christ, that
makes me happy. But that does nothing to suggests he
shouldn't have been executed. But I don't. I don't believe
he was putting on heirs. And there's also no there
was absolutely no chance he was gonna be manumented. There
was I mean, why why would he fuck around with
unrepentant because I want clout from random people?
Speaker 4: That's not especially you know, this would be one thing
if it were you know, the kind of fevered imaginations
of you know, the kind of like mid eighties, you know,
Bible Belt, but you know in New York or sorry,
in Illinois rather, you know, like sure, it's I realize
it's it is a you know, Chicago's religious place. But
that play doesn't quite work the same way, especially if
you're a Greek guy, right, you know, to me. The
idea that that was artificial, I think is is I
can't prove it per se, but it seems kind of
laughable to me.
Speaker 3: What's like, normies they don't normies don't understand how they
don't understand the streets, and they don't they don't understand
really how people convicted a serious crimes function like they
always claim to everybody in prison claims they're innocent. Actually
they don't man like at all, you know, and it's
it's considered kind of a punk moved and insists you
were you know, wrongfully convicted or whatever. And plus I
mean at some point it's just a bad look, you know,
I mean I but yeah, I that's one of the
things that's, uh, the stirring about this case is I
you know, again I whether whether Ady Gcriels was a
punk or not. He was a troubled guy. He he
was kind of falling victim to his own to his
own nature in in in you know, but in terms
of typical streak ship, he probably would have had a
bad end. But I don't know, he was set in stone.
He would have ended up doing this stuff. I mean,
nobody nobody does this stuff. I mean, that's the whole point.
And to be clear to the Chicago police superintendent back then,
we don't have a police chief or a police commissioner.
We have a superintendent in Chicago. He was this guy,
Richard J. Breezick, and he was he was the youngest
ever police superintendent. He was thirty seven or something. And
he took a particular interest in the Ripper Crew case
because it was all over the news for a minute, okay,
and obviously there was there was real concern buring on panic.
You know, are there more of these guys? What's going
on here? He hold a press conference because and this
specifically the subject matter was, you know, the press says
there's been allegations that this this, you know, this was
the product of a Satanic cult, you know, and ritual
sacrifice some things. And Breezak he was some sort of prodigy,
I think he uh, I thank you for a time.
He was the youngest uh detective and the Detectives Bureau
of like ever. He he was an alum of John
Marshall Law School, which I have too, and he and
he was number one in his class. He uh, like
John Marshall was not a prestige institution, but but it does.
But moth cops are not gonna, you know, be number
one in their class in law school, particularly nearly eighties
when the curriculum was more competitively rigorous. But you know,
and he was. He was a big he was a
big city police. He wasn't he wasn't some he wasn't
some dumb hic or some simpleton holy roller taken in
by Satanic panic or whatever the narrative is of people,
you know. And I mean, that's something I've got to
emphasize again. And that's really was sort of the motive
on my end for is bating this whole series is
this was a real thing and the zeitgeist was shot
through with it, and it was happening everywhere. You know.
That's what I'm trying to convey to that unpleasant man
we talked to the other day. I mean, look, I
so I'm a little kid, and everybody's terrified that their daughter,
their mom, and their sister is gonna get grabbed by
these necrophilic cannibal rapos who who they themselves claim worship Satan.
Then you know, I go to Ventura in La with
my folks, you know, a year or two later and
Richard Umire is you know, slaughtering people in their homes
and their sleep at night, and you know, forcing them
to swear to Satan before he does them in you know,
I I take it personally when people act like I'm
some kind of idiot or something for pushing back on
the claim that, oh, everybody who believed that there was
a call tenantcieson a zeitgeist, You're just some dumb hic
who doesn't leave his house and believes that the doubles
after him. I don't know, man, I don't This stuff
either happened or it didn't.
Speaker 4: And well, and look like I don't have the highest
opinion of the you know, the moral character of Heraldo Rivera,
but I somewhat suspect it sort of passed his ability
to be you know, dozens of places all across the
US setting up exactly these sort of crimes like maybe
one or two, you know, in sort of a you
know night, you can imagine maybe, But clearly this was
something happening, and that is independent of how certain people
who were you know, shameless or money hungry reacted to it.
That's a separate part of that's a separate part of
the narrative, but the idea that you know, some carnival
barker exaggerated, lied, or spun it into a convenient narrative,
and therefore the initial claim is false. That doesn't stand
up to even you know, let's be honest, like a
light examination. So I'm curious, Thomas, if you have more
I guess kind of information on the ringleader. Right, yeah,
I was gonna get what do we really know about him?
Speaker 3: Gek came from a weird family, apparently the father, and
a reputation for stepping out on his mom and being
a big philanderer. Gekt he apparently was sort of a
non entity in high school. Nobody really remembered him, but
he got married young and by the time he was
in his mid twenties here he had a few kids.
His wife was this bizarre woman who and she tolerated
him carrying out affairs and again gek t had sex
with both men and women, and one of his girlfriends
attested to the fact that he engaged in at least
one occasion he engaged in beast reality with a canine
and he tried to get her involved in it, and
she said, no, you're sick. I'm not doing that. But
get when he was initially arrested after his idd by,
you know, his victims survived. Denise Gardner, this woman he'd
been having an affair with, mortgaged her house to pay
his bail, I mean, which is bizarre. And his wife,
he apparently was into really heavy sn M, and he'd
punish her by forcing her to do things like sticking
pins in her breast or like flat late herself. And
she talked to her girlfriends about this like it was normal.
You know, this guy apparently had you know, he did
wield power over people. I mean again, I'm not suggesting
that you know, he he was some sort of sorcerer
or something, but again, you know the fact that he
had all these women who were enthralled with him and
you know, willing to do all these deviant things to
please his bizarre impulses. And you know, he's got women,
you know, mortgaging their home to bail him out of jail.
He's got street dudes like the Coriela's brothers doing incredibly
deviant criminal things. I mean, there's there's something there, you know,
And again it's not Gekt Also too, this is a
bizarre twist. Get one of his kids named David Ghekt.
He was just a baby when his father went away
to prison. David Gekt is one can imagine it didn't
have a happy life. He ended up gang bang and
I think he was a he was either an ig
or a maniac lantin disciple. He got convicted of this murder,
this gang related murder in the late nineties, and he
got like an eighty year bit. He was wrongfully convicted.
This one uh, this this one gang task Force Detectives
Bureau guy essentially framed him up to clear the case.
And also he I mean his view of almost certainly
was this kid, some gangbanger shit bag whose dad's a rapo,
you know, fuck him. But Gek the son he got
released after doing like twenty three years, you know, and
and he actually was innocent. This isn't some nonsense like
West Memphis three. David Ghek was a guy. I mean,
first of all, I mean, how messed up is this is?
I mean it's not his fault. His father's an evil
piece of shit. I mean, like, so he's growing up
in that with that over his head. He uh, the hood.
He grew up. He grew up in Belmont Creigen, which
uh was a working class white hood. Now it's very
Spanish and uh, especially in the nineties, there was a
lot like everybody was gangbanging there. And but that's that
that this is an interesting factoid. But no, Deck himself
had a and apparently Deck Robin Gek he he was
he was a skilled carpenter, you know. I mean, he
had his own business. He was good at what he did,
you know, and that's why, uh, I mean, as was Gaysey,
you know, I mean what one of the things that
is made Gaycy dangerous is he was an effective person.
And especially he went from you know, he he did
time in Iowa for for a sex offense. Cause back Jillen,
NOI he gets a job as a short order cook.
But I mean, if he was a skilled tradesman, you know,
he did good work, and Gek seems like something a
similar profile.
Speaker 2: But he.
Speaker 3: It's uh. But other than that, Get is something of
a mystery. I mean, obviously, what what people are gonna
emphasize after the fact is the dving aspects and whatever
human aspects are present that would, you know and uncontroversially
be viewed as normal are going to be minimized. But uh,
in Deek's case, I think that it really is kind
of a question mark and and say it's about in prison,
he's he's working at the factor like sentence. He got
something like one hundred and thirty years even though he
didn't he was never gonna get a homicide. But he's
he's base. He said nothing since he's been incarcerated. You know,
the whole thing is very strange. I mean to say
the least, I mean, be on the obvious.
Speaker 4: But it you know, well, and that's the thing that
sort of stuck out to me about this is that,
you know, all three of the other men implicated the
moment they got in front of the police, were just
spilling their guts, whereas Get basically said nothing from the
moment he was arrested till now.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and the the the Bureau detectives, they the uh,
the Area five command or of the detectives Bureau. He
took a crack a Get, despite the fact that that's
generally not done because you don't want micromanager detectives and
it's and what have you. But the the guy was
so strange and even even a hardened street dude was
in the game, which Get was not I mean, if
you're if you got if you're employee custody and they're
saying they think you're good for multiple homicides, you're you're
gonna be sweating me, and you're especially then again, that's
that's when Illinois was a death penalty state. You know
the fact that nobody got any read on Ghek and
he just he was basically like almost apathetic. You know,
there's something like a lot of evil people. He had
some sort of power, and albeit of a perverse sort
and not amirable sorty, and some kind of spiritual or interdiscipline.
I mean, it's possible to have it's possible to be
a spiritual adept, but to be evil, you know, I
And it's some you know, I mean that's what Yeah.
Pull up the picture of the Ripper Crew if you
would please. Yeah, I mean, just like one man doing
this well along with Ghek could be strange enough, but
you know they have three other men with really with
no criminal record either. Granted Andy and Tommy were young.
That's Andy on the far left that sprites are on
the far right. Then that's Tommy and get you know,
he had uh, he had he had some juvenile incidents
for fighting and stuff and you know, petty crime. But
to go from for your first major crime to be
homicide and not just homicide but murder of a woman,
and not just murder but rape on top of that,
and then well also too, I mean not not to
rehash truly disgusting aspects of this case, but even even
a sexual sadist, I mean, who, who who would want
to and insert his genitals into a knife wound and
not just do that, but do it in the presence
of other guys and one after the other, Like, I mean,
who that? That's so bizarre it almost defies reason. Like
if this hadn't happened, if some if some sicko transgressive
fiction author wrote out this fact pattern, people would be like,
that's not credible, that's just gross and pornographic. Nobody would
do that, you know, But it happened. Then again, this
wasn't some I'll give you this in part two. We'll
deal with the trials in part two. As this wasn't
just some afterthought either. Core Corey Ellis was emphatic and
ultimately Spikeser was too. The purpose of this memberment was
this masturbatory and cannibal ritual under ausmuses of Satanic communion.
That was the point of the dismemberment. You know, Robin
get was on a call to this through and through.
That's why he was doing these things as a sacrifice
and a uh an offering to the devil or whatever.
Well love what deityes he believed he was in content
with I think you're mute at.
Speaker 4: Homie, incredibly professional podcasting moment. But one of the things
you'll you'll hear people say is, oh, you know, these
these guys were just crazy, right, they were. They were
just nut cases. They were just lunatics. And I mean
zoom out a little bit. I mean yeah, kind of
like no normally quote unquote well adjusted person would do this.
Speaker 3: Fair.
Speaker 4: But also, you know how many well adjusted people are
se out the occult are seeking out? You know, is
some sort of like you know, relationship with with dark powers.
It's like, well in, no shit, but that is sort
of indeterminate, That is is sort of unrelated to one.
Do these guys believe that what they're doing is part
of a ritual setting aside any theological claim or two,
If you do believe it, the fact that the guys
are a little cracked is almost unrelated to what they
are actually doing. And to me very much, the kind
of like, oh, they're just crazy, is is sort of
a cop out, right, It's sort of a because yeah, sure.
Speaker 3: Somebody, no, no, you're good, somebody. Okay, if if if
somebody goes out and commits murder because he believes that
if he doesn't, you know, God has told him to
his television that the world will end. Okay, Yeah, I'll
accept that that's insanity as a matter of law, and
colloquially that person's crazy. If you're doing things like these
guys were doing that, that's not mental illness, it's it's
it's evil taking what's ultimate, depraved extreme, whereby one drives
satisfaction from a disgusting paraphilia that they believe is serving
some sort of aesthetical or supernatural imperative. You know, I
don't I that that's very much like a progressivest an
enlightenment conceit that everything has some sort of illness. You know,
if you know you're if you're if you're deeving or evil,
it's because you're sick or there's some sort of mental disturbance.
What's also too, I don't believe so there's so there's
these four guys who just sort of come together in
a greater metro area of five million people, and they're
all under the same sort of mental illness that tends
towards the most bizarre and sick paraphelia you can possibly imagine.
I mean, that doesn't seem credible.
Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly, So obviously we will continue with this series.
You guys want to find Thomas. He's got his website,
he's got a substack, got a YouTube channel now where
you've been putting up a lot of your your backlog content.
So if you've you've missed out on the last season
of Mind Phaser, you can get those now. Highly recommend
you guys check those out. As far as my stuff,
Jay Burdon show, Apple, Spotify, YouTube, anywhere you listen to podcasts,
this is what I do full time now. If you
want to support me, throw me a few bucks on Patreon,
substack or gum road. Get the episodes early in ad free.
Speaker 3: Look.
Speaker 4: I know the ads on the podcast are annoying, but
I got a mortgage and my other options are even
more embarrassing than running ads. So yeah, sorry, I guess anyway, Thomas,
this has been interesting, if not exactly uplifting, but it's
been great to have you back on man appreciate it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you, buddy.
Speaker 4: Ever been at home. Keep your head up. I can't
last forever. Good Night,