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Speaker 3: Meaning a live man like this.

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Speaker 4: Man you letting butterfly flapping his wing, dig down in

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the forest. Man, it gonna cause the tree fall, letting

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five thousand miles away.

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Speaker 3: Man, nobody see nobody. You don't need to know. Man,

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We don't like you followed a little story and you

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got bacted like that. Man, Man go back and dang

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on pane Man, no matter.

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Speaker 4: Man, all right, Thomas, welcome back to Jay Burton Show.

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How are you doing?

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Speaker 3: Man, doing well? Thanks for hosting me.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, Man, I'm excited to have you back on. We're

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continuing our series The New Case. I look, this whole

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series has been grim, this episode particularly even more so

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so of course, you know, fewer discretion advised, maybe not

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one to include the kids on. But I'll throw it

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to you, Thoms.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, this, this fact pattern is particularly horrific. And this

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really disgusting. But and I'm not I didn't select it

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as an important aspect of the series to be worried

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or as quick bait because it's a gross case. It's

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it was, it's a case in point the case and

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point I'd argue whether than there were Mira's case of

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occultism in the zeitgeist in the public mind informing truly

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evil behavior, and the Ripper Crew, as they came to

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be known. This was four men doing this and without

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naming any names. There's people who insist that not only

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is there no such thing as a cult crime, but

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there's no such thing as ritual cult activity involving multiple offenders. Well,

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this is a splendid rebuttal to that little assertion, and

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it also exemplifies how violent things were. And that's one

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of the reasons why outside Chicago this didn't really get play.

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And even in Chicago, this happened at the same These

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murders were happening at the same time as the Tail

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and Old poisoning, which was a national story, and that

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caused genuine panic here on the ground in Shoe Town.

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And then when these sick animals went on trial it

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was the able Archer era. People were terrified of how

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that was going to shake out, you know, with Cold

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War tensions reaching critical mass and scene since ninety's seventy

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three and adding to the bizarre lore. I've heard conflicting

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reports on this, but a deep dived into this and

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apparently it's true according to WLS, which was the primary

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investigative of a legacy media brand here on the ground.

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Robin get who was the leader of the Ripper Crew

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when he was a teenager, he apparently worked for John

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Wayne Gacy and Get was he was married to a woman,

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but he was he was bisexual and he hung around

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with gay people.

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Speaker 4: So question about working with Gaysey. Was that involved in

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kind of the I guess like Chicago Democrat leadership role

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that he was in, or as like a franchise owner.

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Speaker 3: No, he worked for Gaysey when he was a teenager,

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just for his like painting and construction company because ghekt

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was a carpenter and he was he was the kind

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of guy that Gacy preferred. I mean one of the

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things that's the bizarre o Ghektes. He had this incredible

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ability to control people. But he was this tiny little guy.

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He was like five foot and noth then really skinny.

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He's what'd be called a twink these days. Okay, he

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was kind of this he was almost like pre you know,

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he's like this a feminine guy. So this idea that

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he could intimidate these you know, and the Corealis brothers

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who were sort of the muscle of the Ripper Crew.

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There were these They were these Greek tough guys from

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the northwest side. The idea Get could intimidate people into

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doing things by his physicality is ridiculous. You know, He's

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the kind of guy that the co Corielis brothers could

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have broken half. You know. The way he could dominate

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people suggest something really sinister and bizarre. I'm not saying

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anything super natural, but there's something there. But he yeah,

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I but I mean the people these days when true

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crime fanatics come across some of these content creators, especially

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younger people. This isn't some slam on young people, but

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they think it's this insane cosmic coincidence that get apparently

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across pads with gay Zy. It's not though it test

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them into the fact that this this kind of thing

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was common, which is horrifying.

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Speaker 4: But that's well, and not to spin this off into

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its own direction. But obviously, the the sort of rumors

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and allegations around Gaysey that he was not a loan operator,

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you know, given the there's a whole number of suspicious

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things about that.

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Speaker 3: You know, the.

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Speaker 4: Dozens of different keys to his house, the connections to

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kind of a you know, a snuff film ring discussion

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for another day, But critics have made, uh made allegations

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on that, I'll put it that way.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, And I it seems to imagine, especially if

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Gek was involved sexually with gay Sy. It's I realized this.

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It's a pure speculation. It seems to imagine gay Sy

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sort of initiating him into this sort of statistic stuff.

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Albeit you know, Ghek's victim profile was women, but it Yeah,

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I definitely think it's it's more it's a case. It

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goes beyond whether it smoke, there's fire. I think there's

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real there's real evidence that Gaysey had accomplices, and I

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I think that can't be denied. But serious people anymore.

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But basically, the way the Ripper Crew came of the

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attention of law enforcement, this woman's body was discovered in

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Villa Park. Villa Park is a West suburb and especially

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in those is there was a strip of notel motels

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where you could cop dope, where you know, you could

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take prostitutes, but there was a lot of just grimy

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kind of vice activity. Bensonville is kind of like that

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today by the airport, so not serious crying, but a

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lot of advice, a lot of drugs and dope stuff

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they caught. The strip was called by street people's the

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Gods a strip. But this woman's body was found behind

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one of these motels. It's still it was then it

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was called the moon Lit Motel. It's it's been branded

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something different now. But at first glance it appeared as

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if this woman had been dead for some time because

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the body was heavily decomposed. She was a prostitute named

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wind Of Sutton from the West Side, which was odd

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that she'd end up that far. Villa Park's not super

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far from the West Side proper, but it's not a

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place of prostitute which just traveled as service in John

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you know. And her name was Linda Sutton. She still

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had her cash in her socks, so she hadn't been robbed.

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The coroner, owing to very diligent examination and a strong

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base of knowledge, he realized this woman hadn't been dead

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for a long time. She'd only been dead for two

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or three days. What had happened to her? And then

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again this is very grotesque. Her breast had been totally severed,

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and owing to that, insects and various microbes and parasites

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were able to invade the corpse and deteriorate the remains rapidly,

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so at first the police and again in Villa Park.

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They probably get one or two homicides a year even

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back then, and it was in the form of bar

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fights or some sort of domestic dispute that turns into

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a murder. These kinds of random homicides didn't really happen,

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certainly not dead hookers, where you know, body parts are

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removed as a trophy, fetish object, and that's kind of

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This was kind of forgotten about until several months later

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in the fall of nineteen eighty two. October, a woman

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named Denise Gardner, she got snatched up by a guy

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in a red van and she was she survived the attack.

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And what she relayed was a red van had approached

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her on West North Avenue, which was her regular stroll,

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and she said, a little white guy who was at

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the wheel, you know, and he he solicited the act

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he wanted and she gave him the price. He paid her.

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He said, get in. She got into the van. It

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was a carpenter's van and it had a partition and

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she had the wherewithal to remember odd details about it.

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There's been a roach clip hanging from two blue feathers

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from the rear view, and this becomes significant how the

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van was identified. He said something of the effect of,

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you know, fex yourself a drank, or why don't you

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get in the back and get comfortable, and I'll be

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there in a minute. When I park. She went in

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the back, the guy pulled a gun, started pistel whipping her.

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Then he forth pills down her throat and she passed out.

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You know, she was fading out. He continued to piss

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the whipper. She woke up in an alleyway, only a

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few bucks from the stroll and uh, she'd been savagely

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assaulted and one of her breasts was removed. Okay, somebody

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found her before she bled out. It was a streets

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and Sanitation guy who called it in and she identified

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uh to the police from her hospital bed. You know,

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the man who's ultimately identified as Robin Get Okay, and uh,

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she said it was a seventy six or seventy seven

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or seventy eight van. Hookers get to know cars real well.

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He s they did in those days because they're constant

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getting in and out of them, and if something seems

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suss or scary to him, they like hit other females

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on that hustle. Hey watch out for like the seventy

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nine you know corvetor or whatever, which is an interesting factoid.

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But that's how she was able to make the man.

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You know, she described get physically. You know, she described

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the roach clip, all of that. So a few weeks later,

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on October twentieth, why'd you between these two murders or

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between this one assault and this murder and bill apart

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like no connect himp in media. But these two Chicago

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police they were on Lake Short Drive and they come

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across as a red van and I think it was

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the There were past and the red van got off

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the drive. They followed it to Central Avenue, and uh,

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they realized it was an apb out for a red

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or dark orange van with a partition and with the

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you know, a roche clib with blue feathers. So they

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pull up next to it, they see the feathers. They

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pull a van over, pull a driver out, and there's

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a guy there driving and who doesn't fit the description

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at all that Denise Gardner gave. It was some guy

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who they was, you know, probably his late teens, with goofy,

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wild red hair, and h is idea indicated his name

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was Eddie Sprecher. And when the police says, this is

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your van, he said, no, it's my boss. It's van.

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So these two police say, well, who's your boss. He says, oh,

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my boss is Robin get So. The police say, well,

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you know, you know you're gonna take us to Robin

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get So he takes him to this house on a

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north winder, the three thousand a north winder and uh,

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when they get there, they have Eddie knock on the door.

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Get comes out. He fits the description to a t

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that Denise Gardener he gave him. The cops say, you

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know your your van was or a van fitting this

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description was implicated in a very serious crime. I Get

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apparently was tobably lack a daizagle about it. He comes

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to the police station and uh, the police's first impression

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was this guy's probably just a freak who likes to

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hurd hookers. And it just got a little bit out

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of hand with the niece Gardner. But as they talked

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of Spritzer, it became clear that Spreeiser was terrified and

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Obviously that didn't seem normal, and it's why why would

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you be terrified of this little feminine guy if you

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even accuse your boss or whatever. As time went on,

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Spritzer said that he wanted to confess, and the police said,

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confess to what You're not suspected of anything, And Spiders said, well,

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we killed a girl, and we killed a black girl

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and dunked her, and uh, Villa Park, we killed an

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Asian girl out in the West Suburbs too. We killed

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some rich lady that we grabbed off Rush Street. He

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confessed to almost twenty homicides. You and the police are

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00:17:30,400 --> 00:17:34,720
just aghast. So they start looking for a you know,

238
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trying to match this these these claims to see if

239
00:17:39,240 --> 00:17:41,000
they're a loser you're not, and see if there's any

240
00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:46,680
fact patterns in Chicago and Greater Chicago and that matched

241
00:17:46,759 --> 00:17:50,519
these claims, and of course, what you know, this this

242
00:17:50,680 --> 00:17:59,200
Villa Park murder comes up immediately with the dismembered breast,

243
00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:06,559
and uh, they realize they they they have, they have

244
00:18:07,279 --> 00:18:10,839
they probably have two serial killers on their hands. But

245
00:18:10,880 --> 00:18:15,599
then it gets even more bizarre because this is Area

246
00:18:15,680 --> 00:18:22,640
five homicide. There used to be six police areas now

247
00:18:22,680 --> 00:18:26,839
there's only five and uh, they've been reconfigured a bit,

248
00:18:26,960 --> 00:18:30,920
but there's not there's not a homicide division of Chicago PD.

249
00:18:31,160 --> 00:18:35,920
There's a duro of detectives. They're basically the major crimes unit,

250
00:18:36,599 --> 00:18:43,880
and they get homicides. And area five is northwest and uh,

251
00:18:44,160 --> 00:18:48,279
that's that's not that's not a hood area. But it's

252
00:18:48,279 --> 00:18:54,599
a prestige posting. And especially in those days, you get

253
00:18:54,599 --> 00:19:01,079
a pretty high caliber of guys on that detail. Okay,

254
00:19:02,839 --> 00:19:06,640
but even they it was unfathomble of them that that

255
00:19:06,759 --> 00:19:10,400
there'd be more than two guys doing this together. But

256
00:19:11,039 --> 00:19:13,759
so they just said, but still the police have this idea.

257
00:19:14,319 --> 00:19:16,160
Let's take Eddie sprites Or and put in the room.

258
00:19:16,200 --> 00:19:18,599
Put him in the room with Robin ghet and let's

259
00:19:18,599 --> 00:19:21,599
see how Let's let's see if they go at each other.

260
00:19:21,960 --> 00:19:25,559
Let's see if they try and blame each other. Let's

261
00:19:25,559 --> 00:19:28,559
see what Ghekt if he if he starts confessing after

262
00:19:28,599 --> 00:19:31,440
we say that Spritzers made him for you know, eighteen

263
00:19:31,519 --> 00:19:35,279
murders or whatever, so he claims. So they take Spritzer

264
00:19:35,319 --> 00:19:38,720
in there and they said Ghek just looked at him calmly,

265
00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:44,480
and they said Spritzer started visibly shaking, and one of

266
00:19:44,480 --> 00:19:47,240
the detectives says, you know, tell tell your pell Robin,

267
00:19:47,279 --> 00:19:51,880
what what you just told us? And Spritzer says, rob

268
00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:56,519
and I told them about all the girls, and Get

269
00:19:56,839 --> 00:19:59,480
just said, I have no idea what you're talking about.

270
00:19:59,759 --> 00:20:03,319
You know, no anger, no visible. He wasn't visible. We shook,

271
00:20:03,480 --> 00:20:08,119
nothing like that. So then when they takes Spritzer back

272
00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:13,640
to his his own interrogation room, Spritzer says, you know what,

273
00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:16,720
you know what I lied? I lied? Robin wasn't there.

274
00:20:16,799 --> 00:20:23,160
I did these homicides with with Andy kak Coriolis, as

275
00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:27,880
the police say, like, who the fuck is Andy kok Corialis. Well,

276
00:20:27,920 --> 00:20:32,440
as it turns out, Andy kok Corialis was another employee

277
00:20:32,480 --> 00:20:36,400
of Robin Gets, although when they asked him at first,

278
00:20:36,559 --> 00:20:38,680
Gex said he was just this kid that he knew

279
00:20:38,680 --> 00:20:44,440
who used to be as a neighbor. Coo. Coriolis was

280
00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:52,720
a villa park guy, which uh accounts for the connection

281
00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:55,759
of the moonlit motel. I mean, Robin Get was familiar

282
00:20:55,799 --> 00:20:59,559
with the West suburbs too, but that was the core

283
00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:02,880
ell his brother's stomping ground. Their dad was a Greek immigrant.

284
00:21:03,079 --> 00:21:07,559
The mother died years ago. I think Andy kok Corialis

285
00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:10,599
was nineteen at the time. He had a brother, Tommy,

286
00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:17,200
who later became implicated. So now Spreutzer, and to be

287
00:21:17,240 --> 00:21:22,039
clear to you, Spreutzer was probably half retarded. He probably

288
00:21:22,119 --> 00:21:23,680
was one of these people we probably had like a

289
00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:31,119
seventy IQ or something. Okay, And so he starts rambling

290
00:21:32,319 --> 00:21:34,839
trying to you know, see, he starts telling all kinds

291
00:21:34,839 --> 00:21:38,680
of different stories, all of which now seemed to remove

292
00:21:38,839 --> 00:21:43,960
Get from the narrative out of apparent fear of Get,

293
00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:48,119
which the detectives again didn't understand because Gekt was this

294
00:21:48,319 --> 00:21:52,559
sort of effeminatee little weasel. But they go see Andy

295
00:21:52,599 --> 00:21:58,359
kok Corialis at his father's house. They identify themselves, you know,

296
00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:02,519
as police. This is Chicago p he Villa Park wanted

297
00:22:02,559 --> 00:22:06,119
a piece of him two but obviously Chicagwood priority because

298
00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:11,960
they had a far larger file and they have the

299
00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:15,000
allegations are far more numerous. He was only good for

300
00:22:15,079 --> 00:22:20,559
the one homicide potentially in Nolla Park. But the Corey

301
00:22:20,640 --> 00:22:26,680
Elis They get him in an interrogation room and uh

302
00:22:27,119 --> 00:22:34,519
he uh he comes cleaning uh essentially immediately, you know,

303
00:22:34,839 --> 00:22:36,599
they say, you know, you have any idea why you're here,

304
00:22:38,319 --> 00:22:41,920
And he's like, yeah, uh, it's thing to say, Okay,

305
00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:44,359
why why do you think you're here? You know? And

306
00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:48,240
he said, uh, I've been I've been murdering women with

307
00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:54,200
you know, Robin and Spritzer for months, and I dream

308
00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:57,000
about every night and I know I'm going to go

309
00:22:57,039 --> 00:23:05,440
to hell. Corielis also made Gek for blowing away to

310
00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:11,599
random guys and Rigivo, who apparently he had no connection

311
00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:14,920
due but Gek always went around strapped. He had a

312
00:23:15,039 --> 00:23:19,519
rifle like I think it was a Mini fourteen or

313
00:23:19,519 --> 00:23:25,799
something kind of some kind of clinking rifle, and a

314
00:23:25,079 --> 00:23:29,599
h and a handgun of some sort with him and uh,

315
00:23:30,319 --> 00:23:35,599
Coriolis And this is apparently true because this you know, this,

316
00:23:35,599 --> 00:23:38,720
this this murder had been assumed it would be a

317
00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:44,039
some sort of gangster related ship, but it went unsolved.

318
00:23:44,519 --> 00:23:47,039
There's these two guys at a payphone. I think they

319
00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:49,759
I think they were lad In Kings and apparently Gek

320
00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:56,039
just spontaneously blasted at him. The one guy survived with

321
00:23:56,160 --> 00:23:59,240
brain damage was paralyzed. The other guy died at the scene.

322
00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:04,960
But just give an idea of how bizarre get Wise

323
00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:09,519
and how violent he was. I it speculated he probably

324
00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:13,960
in addition to these horrible, horrible sex crimes murders, he

325
00:24:14,079 --> 00:24:17,160
probably want a lot of other people too, just for

326
00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:19,720
the hell of it, or or a test, you know

327
00:24:19,759 --> 00:24:21,680
who he was with to see if you know, they

328
00:24:23,039 --> 00:24:24,759
they had the stomach probably wanted to do. I mean,

329
00:24:24,759 --> 00:24:33,200
who knows, but they they started asking that Coreel was

330
00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:39,680
about these fact patterns they've been related to them by Spritzer.

331
00:24:40,759 --> 00:24:46,480
Despite Spritzer's lack of overall lucidity, he described discrete victim

332
00:24:46,519 --> 00:24:54,000
profiles and women that they killed with very particular characteristics.

333
00:24:54,039 --> 00:24:57,599
And it turns out that the even woman he was

334
00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:01,599
talking about was a woman named Schuie Mack and she

335
00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:05,000
had a fight with her brother. They both worked at

336
00:25:06,079 --> 00:25:09,079
their parents' restaurant and in a haff at a stop

337
00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:12,200
like she got out of the car and uh was

338
00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:15,839
walking down Irving Park Road and she had the horror

339
00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:18,759
of misfortune to be picked up by the ripper crew.

340
00:25:18,799 --> 00:25:21,839
And Corey Alis said, yeah, I grabbed her, I pulled

341
00:25:21,839 --> 00:25:24,440
her into the van. You know, he's like, I started

342
00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:28,079
punched her in the face to saidd her. He hit

343
00:25:28,119 --> 00:25:32,559
her so hard that when her body was found there

344
00:25:32,599 --> 00:25:36,519
was this bizarre horseshoe shaped fracture in the back of

345
00:25:36,559 --> 00:25:41,079
her head. They later figured out Corey Ali said hit

346
00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:49,079
her so hard her head hit the uh door hinge

347
00:25:49,079 --> 00:25:53,279
of the van from the inside and a crack of

348
00:25:53,400 --> 00:26:00,680
stone and killed her. But uh, you know, it was

349
00:26:00,799 --> 00:26:08,400
clear that it was clear that he was uh probably

350
00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:09,440
telling the truth.

351
00:26:10,279 --> 00:26:11,000
Speaker 1: And uh.

352
00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:17,160
Speaker 3: The police said, okay, well, why why did you do

353
00:26:17,279 --> 00:26:21,640
these things? He said, well, for the for the purpose

354
00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:25,559
of ceremonies. And the police said, what what do you

355
00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:30,680
mean And he said, well, Gekt has power over me

356
00:26:31,559 --> 00:26:34,400
and he might have power over you too. Don't look

357
00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:43,240
him in the eyes. He's demonically possessed. The detective said, okay, whatever,

358
00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:45,839
what what do you mean by ceremonies? And this this

359
00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:51,920
is disgusting. I'm gonna warn you. Coriel is related to

360
00:26:52,000 --> 00:27:00,119
that Ghak had a Satanic altar in his addict in

361
00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:07,160
his attic, and with the severed brass and other body parts,

362
00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:14,319
he'd perform a ritual over them, where he'd read Bible passages,

363
00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:26,440
often backwards. He'd chant something in Latin. Then he'd ejaculate

364
00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:33,200
on the dismembered body part, cut it into pieces, and

365
00:27:33,839 --> 00:27:37,839
the ripper crew would then eat it. As a Satanic

366
00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:46,640
offering a Satanic communion, and the police weren't shocked because

367
00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:54,240
again these were Bureau detectives, veterans, but they'd never heard

368
00:27:54,279 --> 00:28:01,799
of anything like this. And frankly, why would anybody make

369
00:28:01,839 --> 00:28:06,240
that up? I mean, this guy who's implicated himself and

370
00:28:06,319 --> 00:28:08,559
this serons was went on. I had the death penalty

371
00:28:09,039 --> 00:28:14,160
and Andy Coo Corielis eventually was executed. But even even

372
00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:17,319
somebody with the sickest of lord fantasies, I mean, why,

373
00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:23,519
why don't even occur to somebody? And this gets worse

374
00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:29,559
if you can believe that. They said, okay, give us

375
00:28:29,599 --> 00:28:38,640
something else to validate what you're telling us, and he said, okay, well,

376
00:28:41,759 --> 00:28:48,640
part of what we do before the ceremony is after

377
00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:56,880
we dismember the breast or create a stab wound, we

378
00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:04,359
have sexual intercourse with the wound. And the woman's body

379
00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:10,440
that was found in Villa Park there was seminal fluid

380
00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:19,599
present in the wound, and this befuddled investigators. I mean, this,

381
00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:31,200
this is beyond sick, you know, and apparently, I mean

382
00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:35,359
obviously Andy core also was an animal and then and

383
00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:40,240
an evil, evil, evil savage, but he was raised in

384
00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:44,720
a tritional Greek household. He claimed to be ah to

385
00:29:44,839 --> 00:29:49,759
believe in God, he was traumatized by his own savagery

386
00:29:49,799 --> 00:29:59,279
and apparently at something of a guilty conscience. Okay, and finally,

387
00:30:00,599 --> 00:30:12,839
what what made this even more unbelievable is Eddie Spritzer.

388
00:30:13,599 --> 00:30:18,279
He continued to try and remove get from the scene

389
00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:24,359
and these rambling confessions that all seemed to contradict each other,

390
00:30:24,759 --> 00:30:29,160
with the one common variable being that these are real

391
00:30:29,319 --> 00:30:31,839
victim profiles. He was describing of women who had been

392
00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:37,279
found murdered or were missing. He said, oh, and you know,

393
00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:47,000
Andy's brother Tommy helped out sometimes too. So the police

394
00:30:47,039 --> 00:30:50,000
go back to the CoA Corelis house where there this

395
00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:54,160
poor old Greek guy has just found out that his

396
00:30:54,279 --> 00:30:57,839
one son is confessing the Satanic murders, that his other

397
00:30:58,039 --> 00:31:02,359
son is being imple located. But at that time Tommy

398
00:31:02,799 --> 00:31:07,319
wasn't suspected of anything beyond what sprites Or had said,

399
00:31:08,039 --> 00:31:10,720
and the police weren't even confident that this was true.

400
00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:16,119
But essentially, the moment they asked Tommy to come talk

401
00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:17,880
to them, they made it clear not under arrest, but

402
00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:21,559
we got to clear this up. You know, Tommy confessed

403
00:31:21,599 --> 00:31:30,799
to participating and Tommy didn't he uh, he did thirty

404
00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:33,279
five years on a seventy year bit. He just got

405
00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:36,519
released a few years back. And a bunch of people

406
00:31:36,599 --> 00:31:44,680
protested that just uh apropos and nothing. I followed that

407
00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:48,440
kind of avidly in it. It was upsetting for this

408
00:31:48,599 --> 00:31:51,559
stuff to be I mean locally he brought up again.

409
00:31:53,359 --> 00:31:53,720
Speaker 2: But the.

410
00:31:58,519 --> 00:32:03,839
Speaker 3: What Tommy confessed to out of the gate, there's this

411
00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:11,200
poor girl named Lorraine Barowski and Elmhurst, which is well,

412
00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:15,000
you know, it's a working class suburb out west, but

413
00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:19,039
it's you know, it's a nice community. She was kidnapped

414
00:32:19,079 --> 00:32:25,680
and broad daylight outside of a Remax office where she worked,

415
00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:30,319
and her boss when he arrived at work that morning,

416
00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:34,599
she was nowhere to be found, which was totally unlike

417
00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:36,799
her because she'd never missed work, even showed up late.

418
00:32:37,319 --> 00:32:41,200
In the parking lot, there is contents of a woman's

419
00:32:41,279 --> 00:32:47,079
purse and there's a flahead screwdriver, and this becomes relevant.

420
00:32:49,039 --> 00:32:52,200
It's as a piece of inculpatory evidence, and I'll explain

421
00:32:52,279 --> 00:32:58,960
that in a moment. And Lorraine had been missing for

422
00:33:00,279 --> 00:33:03,319
almost a year, and it was as if she disappeared

423
00:33:03,359 --> 00:33:13,680
into thin air. And Tommy said that they'd been passing by,

424
00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:20,599
and Lorraine was really beautiful, and she fit a profile

425
00:33:20,759 --> 00:33:25,039
of what Robin get De liked. She was petite, but

426
00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:32,000
kirby and busty and essentially gets it. I want her,

427
00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:39,960
so Tommy and sprites her, grabbed her, pulled her into

428
00:33:40,039 --> 00:33:44,000
the man. You know, they beat her, handcuffed her, bound her.

429
00:33:46,839 --> 00:33:50,279
That night, they took her, you know, they were holding

430
00:33:50,319 --> 00:33:54,160
her hostage. They took her the Rip van Winkle Motel,

431
00:33:54,279 --> 00:33:58,920
which is still open. And I was kind of horrified

432
00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:02,200
to find out that murder tourists go there because of

433
00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:06,839
this case. I've got I've got nothing wrong with visiting

434
00:34:09,039 --> 00:34:11,559
infamous crime scenes because I've done it. But the way

435
00:34:11,639 --> 00:34:14,480
people talked about this and yelp and stuff I found

436
00:34:14,519 --> 00:34:18,440
to be really tasteless. But Tommy said, they took Lorraine

437
00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:24,880
Boreowski to the Rip van Winklin Hotel and they gang

438
00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:34,480
raped her. They severed or breast with piano wire, They

439
00:34:38,360 --> 00:34:47,159
had sexual intercourse with the wound, and get hacked her

440
00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:50,320
to death by hitting her in the throat with a

441
00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:55,440
hand as and then they disposed of the body in

442
00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:59,800
a cemetery. Get there to think about cemeteries too. When

443
00:34:59,800 --> 00:35:07,159
he said, if you dump bodies in proximity to cemeteries.

444
00:35:07,159 --> 00:35:10,800
As long as it's not within the normal we're out

445
00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:15,920
of the maintenance workers, it will go and discovered for

446
00:35:16,039 --> 00:35:19,639
long enough for animal predation and the elements to get

447
00:35:19,719 --> 00:35:24,880
rid of evidence. And sure enough Lorraine Barowski was found

448
00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:32,360
at the cemetery. The screwdriver was significant because gets Van

449
00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:38,360
he'd rigged it up so that victims couldn't open the

450
00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:42,239
doors from the from it within, and he'd he'd jerry

451
00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:44,519
rigged the lock mechanism so that you could open it

452
00:35:44,599 --> 00:35:49,159
from outside with a flathead screwdriver. So this, this random

453
00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:57,880
flathead being with Lorraine Barowski's belongings became a highly significant

454
00:35:57,920 --> 00:36:04,320
obviously in circumstantial but I when women don't when women

455
00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:08,000
don't carry flatting stream drivers. In the purposal, KK, you

456
00:36:08,159 --> 00:36:13,960
had to I will die in that hill, but uh,

457
00:36:17,719 --> 00:36:19,639
let me find place here in my O. I'm sorry,

458
00:36:22,199 --> 00:36:33,880
and Andy could porealis. He confess to the murder of

459
00:36:34,039 --> 00:36:39,519
rose Beck Davis, which was the most brazen of what

460
00:36:39,719 --> 00:36:48,320
the Ripper Crew did. Rush Street, which to this day

461
00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:52,920
is to remain something of the entertainment district. It's way

462
00:36:53,039 --> 00:36:55,480
less so than in the in the old days, but

463
00:36:56,239 --> 00:36:59,239
in the early eighties. It was very very much happening.

464
00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:04,119
And you know, uh, you're in the heart of downtown.

465
00:37:04,239 --> 00:37:09,639
There rose Big Davis with this business lady who's attending

466
00:37:09,679 --> 00:37:15,159
some conference and she'd just been grabbed off the street.

467
00:37:17,519 --> 00:37:24,400
Same uh sort of assault demo dumped in an alleyway.

468
00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:32,599
That happened in area six. And uh, the connection wasn't

469
00:37:32,679 --> 00:37:40,639
made to any other you know, any any other homicides.

470
00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:45,559
And that was part of what if you know the

471
00:37:45,599 --> 00:37:49,800
g R if you don't have the geography Chicago shoeing

472
00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:52,960
Mack was killed in Barrington, which is way west Bill

473
00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:55,199
of Park, what is outside the city limits, you know,

474
00:37:55,360 --> 00:38:04,480
but bordering approximate on the west side, you know, Rush

475
00:38:04,519 --> 00:38:08,880
Street is you know, like I said in the Stars

476
00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:15,760
Throw from the Loop, they were doing this h in

477
00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:22,119
such a widely dispersed hunting ground. Not to be flippant,

478
00:38:23,719 --> 00:38:30,280
that had the effect of of confusing the fat pattern.

479
00:38:31,920 --> 00:38:35,800
And also it wasn't DNA is overstated, and how it's

480
00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:42,159
utilized in court it's over persuasive and triers e fact,

481
00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:46,360
but not not just lay juries but judges as well.

482
00:38:47,519 --> 00:38:53,639
They do it in binary terms, which is really bad. However,

483
00:38:53,920 --> 00:39:01,119
obviously it's a highly useful tool, particularly when discussing sexual

484
00:39:01,239 --> 00:39:06,920
crimes like these. You know, you couldn't, uh you could, uh,

485
00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:11,960
I think you could. I mean if you could type

486
00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:15,599
blood group from blood sample in nineteen eighty two. I

487
00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:20,519
believe if the contributor was a secretor, you could type

488
00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:23,519
blood from seamen as well. But that was it. You know,

489
00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:27,840
a blood group, doesn't I mean you're talking about millions

490
00:39:27,880 --> 00:39:33,039
of potential suspects. I mean you can you can exclude somebody,

491
00:39:33,679 --> 00:39:36,519
you know, as this the Donnor, but that's about it.

492
00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:40,239
But it was uh and obviously this was before the

493
00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:45,719
ubiquity of CCTV and pre cell phones and things, but

494
00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:48,480
just the same, what these guys are doing was incredibly brazen.

495
00:39:49,119 --> 00:39:52,440
It's it's sort amazing that they were able to get

496
00:39:52,480 --> 00:40:00,360
away with with some of these abductions and things. Aska

497
00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:09,960
Coriealis Andy co Corielis continued, He attested and took ownership

498
00:40:10,039 --> 00:40:13,960
of eighteen murders, but he said, we've done so many,

499
00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:22,199
I probably have lost track. You know. The police, Uh,

500
00:40:24,840 --> 00:40:30,000
the police cast they cast Spritzer as an abject simpleton.

501
00:40:31,519 --> 00:40:38,519
They cast Gaged as stone cold and hard as ice.

502
00:40:39,119 --> 00:40:46,440
They they portrayed Andy as a punk, but I don't

503
00:40:46,559 --> 00:40:50,519
think that's the whole story, you know, and he, uh,

504
00:40:52,880 --> 00:40:59,079
he went to his death pretty stoically, and the Barowski

505
00:40:59,199 --> 00:41:04,079
family was there to witness of execution. I think they

506
00:41:04,119 --> 00:41:08,320
were the only impacted victims.

507
00:41:09,360 --> 00:41:13,440
Speaker 4: Well, if I remember correctly, he seems from what limited

508
00:41:13,719 --> 00:41:17,559
information I've been able to find on it, it's sort

509
00:41:17,559 --> 00:41:24,159
of a conversion. After his arrest.

510
00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:25,039
Speaker 3: Uh.

511
00:41:25,639 --> 00:41:29,559
Speaker 4: You know, he famously, you know, read out a few

512
00:41:29,599 --> 00:41:34,079
passages from scripture and you know, basically threw himself on

513
00:41:34,239 --> 00:41:35,760
the mercy of the victims family.

514
00:41:36,360 --> 00:41:41,320
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, and he apologized them without eschewing responsibility. And

515
00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:48,760
he his spiritual advisor. And under under Illinois law, when

516
00:41:48,840 --> 00:41:52,079
we when we have the Death Menal League as well

517
00:41:52,119 --> 00:41:57,440
as you know the fourteenth Amendment, you've got a right

518
00:41:57,519 --> 00:42:00,800
to a spiritual advisor if you're under it. DEA's and

519
00:42:00,880 --> 00:42:05,400
it was this Orthodox priest, and you know, the the Orthodox,

520
00:42:06,599 --> 00:42:11,679
unlike the the Roman Catholic Church was the Roman Catholics

521
00:42:11,719 --> 00:42:16,360
have adopted a categorically anti death penalty stance. And I

522
00:42:16,440 --> 00:42:19,360
know a lot of our Catholic friends strongly object to that,

523
00:42:20,039 --> 00:42:26,119
but the Orthodox, they don't have that perspective. And this

524
00:42:26,519 --> 00:42:32,639
this Orthonox priest who was his spiritual advisor. He he

525
00:42:32,760 --> 00:42:38,079
was emphatic that Corialis was repentant, and I he certainly

526
00:42:38,079 --> 00:42:40,960
didn't win any friends by sticking up for Andy co Coriolis.

527
00:42:41,719 --> 00:42:44,920
And I don't get me wrong, I go Coriolis should

528
00:42:44,960 --> 00:42:47,519
have been executed, that it was proper and if he,

529
00:42:47,760 --> 00:42:49,679
if he was surely repentant and came to Christ, that

530
00:42:49,760 --> 00:42:53,960
makes me happy. But that does nothing to suggests he

531
00:42:53,960 --> 00:42:58,079
shouldn't have been executed. But I don't. I don't believe

532
00:42:58,079 --> 00:43:00,079
he was putting on heirs. And there's also no there

533
00:43:00,079 --> 00:43:03,480
was absolutely no chance he was gonna be manumented. There

534
00:43:03,559 --> 00:43:05,760
was I mean, why why would he fuck around with

535
00:43:06,400 --> 00:43:09,400
unrepentant because I want clout from random people?

536
00:43:09,679 --> 00:43:12,800
Speaker 4: That's not especially you know, this would be one thing

537
00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:15,960
if it were you know, the kind of fevered imaginations

538
00:43:16,079 --> 00:43:19,119
of you know, the kind of like mid eighties, you know,

539
00:43:19,239 --> 00:43:23,360
Bible Belt, but you know in New York or sorry,

540
00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:27,000
in Illinois rather, you know, like sure, it's I realize

541
00:43:27,039 --> 00:43:30,679
it's it is a you know, Chicago's religious place. But

542
00:43:32,719 --> 00:43:35,679
that play doesn't quite work the same way, especially if

543
00:43:35,679 --> 00:43:38,360
you're a Greek guy, right, you know, to me. The

544
00:43:38,440 --> 00:43:41,920
idea that that was artificial, I think is is I

545
00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:44,039
can't prove it per se, but it seems kind of

546
00:43:44,079 --> 00:43:44,599
laughable to me.

547
00:43:44,719 --> 00:43:48,039
Speaker 3: What's like, normies they don't normies don't understand how they

548
00:43:48,039 --> 00:43:50,159
don't understand the streets, and they don't they don't understand

549
00:43:50,239 --> 00:43:57,159
really how people convicted a serious crimes function like they

550
00:43:57,199 --> 00:44:00,400
always claim to everybody in prison claims they're innocent. Actually

551
00:44:00,440 --> 00:44:04,239
they don't man like at all, you know, and it's

552
00:44:04,480 --> 00:44:09,280
it's considered kind of a punk moved and insists you

553
00:44:09,360 --> 00:44:14,599
were you know, wrongfully convicted or whatever. And plus I

554
00:44:14,639 --> 00:44:17,599
mean at some point it's just a bad look, you know,

555
00:44:17,719 --> 00:44:21,599
I mean I but yeah, I that's one of the

556
00:44:21,719 --> 00:44:27,280
things that's, uh, the stirring about this case is I

557
00:44:27,599 --> 00:44:31,559
you know, again I whether whether Ady Gcriels was a

558
00:44:31,639 --> 00:44:36,559
punk or not. He was a troubled guy. He he

559
00:44:36,719 --> 00:44:41,400
was kind of falling victim to his own to his

560
00:44:41,559 --> 00:44:46,440
own nature in in in you know, but in terms

561
00:44:46,440 --> 00:44:49,800
of typical streak ship, he probably would have had a

562
00:44:49,920 --> 00:44:52,639
bad end. But I don't know, he was set in stone.

563
00:44:52,639 --> 00:44:54,840
He would have ended up doing this stuff. I mean,

564
00:44:54,920 --> 00:44:57,800
nobody nobody does this stuff. I mean, that's the whole point.

565
00:44:58,639 --> 00:45:02,559
And to be clear to the Chicago police superintendent back then,

566
00:45:04,159 --> 00:45:06,280
we don't have a police chief or a police commissioner.

567
00:45:06,360 --> 00:45:10,679
We have a superintendent in Chicago. He was this guy,

568
00:45:10,840 --> 00:45:13,400
Richard J. Breezick, and he was he was the youngest

569
00:45:13,519 --> 00:45:17,280
ever police superintendent. He was thirty seven or something. And

570
00:45:19,320 --> 00:45:23,280
he took a particular interest in the Ripper Crew case

571
00:45:26,519 --> 00:45:30,920
because it was all over the news for a minute, okay,

572
00:45:31,039 --> 00:45:37,239
and obviously there was there was real concern buring on panic.

573
00:45:37,920 --> 00:45:39,840
You know, are there more of these guys? What's going

574
00:45:39,880 --> 00:45:43,280
on here? He hold a press conference because and this

575
00:45:43,719 --> 00:45:47,079
specifically the subject matter was, you know, the press says

576
00:45:47,840 --> 00:45:51,880
there's been allegations that this this, you know, this was

577
00:45:51,960 --> 00:45:55,280
the product of a Satanic cult, you know, and ritual

578
00:45:56,239 --> 00:46:01,079
sacrifice some things. And Breezak he was some sort of prodigy,

579
00:46:03,039 --> 00:46:06,480
I think he uh, I thank you for a time.

580
00:46:06,559 --> 00:46:10,159
He was the youngest uh detective and the Detectives Bureau

581
00:46:11,440 --> 00:46:15,880
of like ever. He he was an alum of John

582
00:46:15,920 --> 00:46:18,559
Marshall Law School, which I have too, and he and

583
00:46:18,639 --> 00:46:21,559
he was number one in his class. He uh, like

584
00:46:21,639 --> 00:46:25,039
John Marshall was not a prestige institution, but but it does.

585
00:46:25,159 --> 00:46:28,519
But moth cops are not gonna, you know, be number

586
00:46:28,559 --> 00:46:31,599
one in their class in law school, particularly nearly eighties

587
00:46:31,639 --> 00:46:36,480
when the curriculum was more competitively rigorous. But you know,

588
00:46:36,559 --> 00:46:39,119
and he was. He was a big he was a

589
00:46:39,159 --> 00:46:42,119
big city police. He wasn't he wasn't some he wasn't

590
00:46:42,159 --> 00:46:47,639
some dumb hic or some simpleton holy roller taken in

591
00:46:47,760 --> 00:46:50,440
by Satanic panic or whatever the narrative is of people,

592
00:46:51,360 --> 00:46:53,000
you know. And I mean, that's something I've got to

593
00:46:53,039 --> 00:46:57,679
emphasize again. And that's really was sort of the motive

594
00:46:58,519 --> 00:47:02,360
on my end for is bating this whole series is

595
00:47:02,679 --> 00:47:07,400
this was a real thing and the zeitgeist was shot

596
00:47:07,559 --> 00:47:12,000
through with it, and it was happening everywhere. You know.

597
00:47:14,199 --> 00:47:16,400
That's what I'm trying to convey to that unpleasant man

598
00:47:16,519 --> 00:47:19,000
we talked to the other day. I mean, look, I

599
00:47:20,119 --> 00:47:25,280
so I'm a little kid, and everybody's terrified that their daughter,

600
00:47:25,400 --> 00:47:27,519
their mom, and their sister is gonna get grabbed by

601
00:47:27,559 --> 00:47:33,840
these necrophilic cannibal rapos who who they themselves claim worship Satan.

602
00:47:34,599 --> 00:47:36,480
Then you know, I go to Ventura in La with

603
00:47:36,599 --> 00:47:39,880
my folks, you know, a year or two later and

604
00:47:40,280 --> 00:47:43,199
Richard Umire is you know, slaughtering people in their homes

605
00:47:43,239 --> 00:47:46,199
and their sleep at night, and you know, forcing them

606
00:47:46,239 --> 00:47:48,880
to swear to Satan before he does them in you know,

607
00:47:50,400 --> 00:47:54,280
I I take it personally when people act like I'm

608
00:47:54,280 --> 00:47:57,599
some kind of idiot or something for pushing back on

609
00:47:57,719 --> 00:48:02,119
the claim that, oh, everybody who believed that there was

610
00:48:03,199 --> 00:48:06,480
a call tenantcieson a zeitgeist, You're just some dumb hic

611
00:48:06,599 --> 00:48:09,960
who doesn't leave his house and believes that the doubles

612
00:48:09,960 --> 00:48:13,079
after him. I don't know, man, I don't This stuff

613
00:48:13,119 --> 00:48:14,239
either happened or it didn't.

614
00:48:14,480 --> 00:48:18,880
Speaker 4: And well, and look like I don't have the highest

615
00:48:19,199 --> 00:48:22,239
opinion of the you know, the moral character of Heraldo Rivera,

616
00:48:22,519 --> 00:48:26,280
but I somewhat suspect it sort of passed his ability

617
00:48:26,840 --> 00:48:29,639
to be you know, dozens of places all across the

618
00:48:29,760 --> 00:48:33,079
US setting up exactly these sort of crimes like maybe

619
00:48:33,159 --> 00:48:35,039
one or two, you know, in sort of a you

620
00:48:35,079 --> 00:48:39,880
know night, you can imagine maybe, But clearly this was

621
00:48:39,920 --> 00:48:45,400
something happening, and that is independent of how certain people

622
00:48:45,480 --> 00:48:49,960
who were you know, shameless or money hungry reacted to it.

623
00:48:50,119 --> 00:48:52,960
That's a separate part of that's a separate part of

624
00:48:53,000 --> 00:48:57,039
the narrative, but the idea that you know, some carnival

625
00:48:57,119 --> 00:49:01,559
barker exaggerated, lied, or spun it into a convenient narrative,

626
00:49:01,920 --> 00:49:05,840
and therefore the initial claim is false. That doesn't stand

627
00:49:05,920 --> 00:49:09,039
up to even you know, let's be honest, like a

628
00:49:09,400 --> 00:49:15,280
light examination. So I'm curious, Thomas, if you have more

629
00:49:16,039 --> 00:49:21,159
I guess kind of information on the ringleader. Right, yeah,

630
00:49:21,199 --> 00:49:23,239
I was gonna get what do we really know about him?

631
00:49:24,360 --> 00:49:30,559
Speaker 3: Gek came from a weird family, apparently the father, and

632
00:49:30,559 --> 00:49:33,719
a reputation for stepping out on his mom and being

633
00:49:33,719 --> 00:49:39,480
a big philanderer. Gekt he apparently was sort of a

634
00:49:39,639 --> 00:49:43,760
non entity in high school. Nobody really remembered him, but

635
00:49:44,880 --> 00:49:47,000
he got married young and by the time he was

636
00:49:47,360 --> 00:49:49,599
in his mid twenties here he had a few kids.

637
00:49:50,679 --> 00:49:55,519
His wife was this bizarre woman who and she tolerated

638
00:49:55,599 --> 00:49:59,000
him carrying out affairs and again gek t had sex

639
00:49:59,039 --> 00:50:02,760
with both men and women, and one of his girlfriends

640
00:50:04,639 --> 00:50:08,840
attested to the fact that he engaged in at least

641
00:50:08,880 --> 00:50:11,440
one occasion he engaged in beast reality with a canine

642
00:50:11,679 --> 00:50:13,239
and he tried to get her involved in it, and

643
00:50:13,320 --> 00:50:15,960
she said, no, you're sick. I'm not doing that. But

644
00:50:17,400 --> 00:50:23,000
get when he was initially arrested after his idd by,

645
00:50:23,320 --> 00:50:28,480
you know, his victims survived. Denise Gardner, this woman he'd

646
00:50:28,519 --> 00:50:32,639
been having an affair with, mortgaged her house to pay

647
00:50:32,719 --> 00:50:38,480
his bail, I mean, which is bizarre. And his wife,

648
00:50:40,039 --> 00:50:44,760
he apparently was into really heavy sn M, and he'd

649
00:50:44,960 --> 00:50:47,679
punish her by forcing her to do things like sticking

650
00:50:47,840 --> 00:50:52,280
pins in her breast or like flat late herself. And

651
00:50:52,960 --> 00:50:55,519
she talked to her girlfriends about this like it was normal.

652
00:50:56,599 --> 00:51:00,960
You know, this guy apparently had you know, he did

653
00:51:01,039 --> 00:51:04,960
wield power over people. I mean again, I'm not suggesting

654
00:51:05,039 --> 00:51:08,679
that you know, he he was some sort of sorcerer

655
00:51:08,800 --> 00:51:13,199
or something, but again, you know the fact that he

656
00:51:13,280 --> 00:51:17,280
had all these women who were enthralled with him and

657
00:51:18,000 --> 00:51:20,679
you know, willing to do all these deviant things to

658
00:51:20,760 --> 00:51:26,800
please his bizarre impulses. And you know, he's got women,

659
00:51:27,039 --> 00:51:29,960
you know, mortgaging their home to bail him out of jail.

660
00:51:30,599 --> 00:51:36,199
He's got street dudes like the Coriela's brothers doing incredibly

661
00:51:36,400 --> 00:51:42,079
deviant criminal things. I mean, there's there's something there, you know,

662
00:51:42,119 --> 00:51:45,440
And again it's not Gekt Also too, this is a

663
00:51:45,519 --> 00:51:50,559
bizarre twist. Get one of his kids named David Ghekt.

664
00:51:50,639 --> 00:51:53,039
He was just a baby when his father went away

665
00:51:53,079 --> 00:51:58,039
to prison. David Gekt is one can imagine it didn't

666
00:51:58,079 --> 00:52:02,119
have a happy life. He ended up gang bang and

667
00:52:02,159 --> 00:52:03,760
I think he was a he was either an ig

668
00:52:04,000 --> 00:52:07,760
or a maniac lantin disciple. He got convicted of this murder,

669
00:52:08,280 --> 00:52:12,519
this gang related murder in the late nineties, and he

670
00:52:12,639 --> 00:52:17,719
got like an eighty year bit. He was wrongfully convicted.

671
00:52:19,119 --> 00:52:24,079
This one uh, this this one gang task Force Detectives

672
00:52:24,119 --> 00:52:28,239
Bureau guy essentially framed him up to clear the case.

673
00:52:28,320 --> 00:52:31,360
And also he I mean his view of almost certainly

674
00:52:31,440 --> 00:52:35,719
was this kid, some gangbanger shit bag whose dad's a rapo,

675
00:52:36,000 --> 00:52:39,679
you know, fuck him. But Gek the son he got

676
00:52:39,800 --> 00:52:44,920
released after doing like twenty three years, you know, and

677
00:52:45,159 --> 00:52:47,679
and he actually was innocent. This isn't some nonsense like

678
00:52:47,800 --> 00:52:55,280
West Memphis three. David Ghek was a guy. I mean,

679
00:52:55,320 --> 00:52:57,079
first of all, I mean, how messed up is this is?

680
00:52:57,159 --> 00:52:58,960
I mean it's not his fault. His father's an evil

681
00:52:59,000 --> 00:53:01,639
piece of shit. I mean, like, so he's growing up

682
00:53:01,679 --> 00:53:06,679
in that with that over his head. He uh, the hood.

683
00:53:06,719 --> 00:53:09,760
He grew up. He grew up in Belmont Creigen, which

684
00:53:09,920 --> 00:53:15,280
uh was a working class white hood. Now it's very

685
00:53:15,400 --> 00:53:19,599
Spanish and uh, especially in the nineties, there was a

686
00:53:19,719 --> 00:53:26,320
lot like everybody was gangbanging there. And but that's that

687
00:53:26,480 --> 00:53:29,599
that this is an interesting factoid. But no, Deck himself

688
00:53:29,800 --> 00:53:35,000
had a and apparently Deck Robin Gek he he was

689
00:53:35,559 --> 00:53:37,760
he was a skilled carpenter, you know. I mean, he

690
00:53:37,880 --> 00:53:39,960
had his own business. He was good at what he did,

691
00:53:41,280 --> 00:53:44,320
you know, and that's why, uh, I mean, as was Gaysey,

692
00:53:44,760 --> 00:53:47,719
you know, I mean what one of the things that

693
00:53:48,400 --> 00:53:52,199
is made Gaycy dangerous is he was an effective person.

694
00:53:52,760 --> 00:53:56,159
And especially he went from you know, he he did

695
00:53:56,280 --> 00:53:59,960
time in Iowa for for a sex offense. Cause back Jillen,

696
00:54:00,079 --> 00:54:02,199
NOI he gets a job as a short order cook.

697
00:54:02,760 --> 00:54:04,960
But I mean, if he was a skilled tradesman, you know,

698
00:54:05,239 --> 00:54:09,599
he did good work, and Gek seems like something a

699
00:54:09,599 --> 00:54:10,440
similar profile.

700
00:54:10,559 --> 00:54:10,800
Speaker 2: But he.

701
00:54:14,280 --> 00:54:16,960
Speaker 3: It's uh. But other than that, Get is something of

702
00:54:17,360 --> 00:54:25,280
a mystery. I mean, obviously, what what people are gonna

703
00:54:25,440 --> 00:54:31,440
emphasize after the fact is the dving aspects and whatever

704
00:54:32,880 --> 00:54:39,639
human aspects are present that would, you know and uncontroversially

705
00:54:39,800 --> 00:54:43,320
be viewed as normal are going to be minimized. But uh,

706
00:54:44,039 --> 00:54:47,400
in Deek's case, I think that it really is kind

707
00:54:47,400 --> 00:54:51,079
of a question mark and and say it's about in prison,

708
00:54:51,199 --> 00:54:53,440
he's he's working at the factor like sentence. He got

709
00:54:53,480 --> 00:54:56,280
something like one hundred and thirty years even though he

710
00:54:56,519 --> 00:54:59,599
didn't he was never gonna get a homicide. But he's

711
00:54:59,639 --> 00:55:02,960
he's base. He said nothing since he's been incarcerated. You know,

712
00:55:03,559 --> 00:55:05,639
the whole thing is very strange. I mean to say

713
00:55:05,679 --> 00:55:07,679
the least, I mean, be on the obvious.

714
00:55:07,400 --> 00:55:10,440
Speaker 4: But it you know, well, and that's the thing that

715
00:55:10,559 --> 00:55:13,519
sort of stuck out to me about this is that,

716
00:55:14,199 --> 00:55:18,000
you know, all three of the other men implicated the

717
00:55:18,400 --> 00:55:20,440
moment they got in front of the police, were just

718
00:55:20,480 --> 00:55:25,239
spilling their guts, whereas Get basically said nothing from the

719
00:55:25,280 --> 00:55:26,639
moment he was arrested till now.

720
00:55:28,159 --> 00:55:36,159
Speaker 3: Yeah, and the the the Bureau detectives, they the uh,

721
00:55:36,599 --> 00:55:41,039
the Area five command or of the detectives Bureau. He

722
00:55:41,159 --> 00:55:44,119
took a crack a Get, despite the fact that that's

723
00:55:44,159 --> 00:55:49,320
generally not done because you don't want micromanager detectives and

724
00:55:49,400 --> 00:55:52,320
it's and what have you. But the the guy was

725
00:55:52,400 --> 00:55:56,400
so strange and even even a hardened street dude was

726
00:55:56,440 --> 00:55:59,639
in the game, which Get was not I mean, if

727
00:55:59,679 --> 00:56:05,079
you're if you got if you're employee custody and they're

728
00:56:05,119 --> 00:56:07,599
saying they think you're good for multiple homicides, you're you're

729
00:56:07,599 --> 00:56:10,519
gonna be sweating me, and you're especially then again, that's

730
00:56:10,639 --> 00:56:13,360
that's when Illinois was a death penalty state. You know

731
00:56:13,440 --> 00:56:16,920
the fact that nobody got any read on Ghek and

732
00:56:17,000 --> 00:56:20,440
he just he was basically like almost apathetic. You know,

733
00:56:20,519 --> 00:56:25,360
there's something like a lot of evil people. He had

734
00:56:26,079 --> 00:56:29,239
some sort of power, and albeit of a perverse sort

735
00:56:29,480 --> 00:56:33,440
and not amirable sorty, and some kind of spiritual or interdiscipline.

736
00:56:34,719 --> 00:56:38,440
I mean, it's possible to have it's possible to be

737
00:56:38,480 --> 00:56:43,199
a spiritual adept, but to be evil, you know, I

738
00:56:44,719 --> 00:56:47,840
And it's some you know, I mean that's what Yeah.

739
00:56:47,880 --> 00:56:50,920
Pull up the picture of the Ripper Crew if you

740
00:56:50,960 --> 00:56:54,039
would please. Yeah, I mean, just like one man doing

741
00:56:54,119 --> 00:56:57,280
this well along with Ghek could be strange enough, but

742
00:56:58,079 --> 00:57:04,480
you know they have three other men with really with

743
00:57:04,559 --> 00:57:07,840
no criminal record either. Granted Andy and Tommy were young.

744
00:57:08,159 --> 00:57:11,760
That's Andy on the far left that sprites are on

745
00:57:11,800 --> 00:57:16,840
the far right. Then that's Tommy and get you know,

746
00:57:16,960 --> 00:57:20,519
he had uh, he had he had some juvenile incidents

747
00:57:20,559 --> 00:57:24,280
for fighting and stuff and you know, petty crime. But

748
00:57:24,440 --> 00:57:29,800
to go from for your first major crime to be

749
00:57:29,920 --> 00:57:33,119
homicide and not just homicide but murder of a woman,

750
00:57:34,000 --> 00:57:36,960
and not just murder but rape on top of that,

751
00:57:37,079 --> 00:57:39,280
and then well also too, I mean not not to

752
00:57:39,360 --> 00:57:44,480
rehash truly disgusting aspects of this case, but even even

753
00:57:44,519 --> 00:57:48,039
a sexual sadist, I mean, who, who who would want

754
00:57:48,079 --> 00:57:55,400
to and insert his genitals into a knife wound and

755
00:57:55,480 --> 00:57:57,360
not just do that, but do it in the presence

756
00:57:57,400 --> 00:58:00,719
of other guys and one after the other, Like, I mean,

757
00:58:00,719 --> 00:58:07,079
who that? That's so bizarre it almost defies reason. Like

758
00:58:07,159 --> 00:58:13,000
if this hadn't happened, if some if some sicko transgressive

759
00:58:13,079 --> 00:58:17,079
fiction author wrote out this fact pattern, people would be like,

760
00:58:17,159 --> 00:58:20,320
that's not credible, that's just gross and pornographic. Nobody would

761
00:58:20,360 --> 00:58:24,000
do that, you know, But it happened. Then again, this

762
00:58:24,159 --> 00:58:29,239
wasn't some I'll give you this in part two. We'll

763
00:58:29,280 --> 00:58:33,920
deal with the trials in part two. As this wasn't

764
00:58:34,039 --> 00:58:38,639
just some afterthought either. Core Corey Ellis was emphatic and

765
00:58:38,880 --> 00:58:45,199
ultimately Spikeser was too. The purpose of this memberment was

766
00:58:45,280 --> 00:58:54,119
this masturbatory and cannibal ritual under ausmuses of Satanic communion.

767
00:58:54,760 --> 00:59:00,480
That was the point of the dismemberment. You know, Robin

768
00:59:00,519 --> 00:59:03,000
get was on a call to this through and through.

769
00:59:03,280 --> 00:59:07,719
That's why he was doing these things as a sacrifice

770
00:59:07,960 --> 00:59:13,199
and a uh an offering to the devil or whatever.

771
00:59:14,199 --> 00:59:16,760
Well love what deityes he believed he was in content

772
00:59:16,920 --> 00:59:24,800
with I think you're mute at.

773
00:59:24,760 --> 00:59:31,840
Speaker 4: Homie, incredibly professional podcasting moment. But one of the things

774
00:59:31,920 --> 00:59:34,760
you'll you'll hear people say is, oh, you know, these

775
00:59:34,920 --> 00:59:38,239
these guys were just crazy, right, they were. They were

776
00:59:38,320 --> 00:59:41,840
just nut cases. They were just lunatics. And I mean

777
00:59:43,280 --> 00:59:45,800
zoom out a little bit. I mean yeah, kind of

778
00:59:46,239 --> 00:59:51,039
like no normally quote unquote well adjusted person would do this.

779
00:59:52,960 --> 00:59:53,199
Speaker 3: Fair.

780
00:59:54,159 --> 00:59:59,119
Speaker 4: But also, you know how many well adjusted people are

781
00:59:59,719 --> 01:00:04,840
se out the occult are seeking out? You know, is

782
01:00:05,000 --> 01:00:08,599
some sort of like you know, relationship with with dark powers.

783
01:00:08,679 --> 01:00:13,199
It's like, well in, no shit, but that is sort

784
01:00:13,239 --> 01:00:17,039
of indeterminate, That is is sort of unrelated to one.

785
01:00:18,000 --> 01:00:21,320
Do these guys believe that what they're doing is part

786
01:00:21,360 --> 01:00:24,800
of a ritual setting aside any theological claim or two,

787
01:00:25,039 --> 01:00:27,639
If you do believe it, the fact that the guys

788
01:00:27,679 --> 01:00:32,239
are a little cracked is almost unrelated to what they

789
01:00:32,320 --> 01:00:36,679
are actually doing. And to me very much, the kind

790
01:00:36,719 --> 01:00:38,599
of like, oh, they're just crazy, is is sort of

791
01:00:38,639 --> 01:00:43,920
a cop out, right, It's sort of a because yeah, sure.

792
01:00:44,960 --> 01:00:52,480
Speaker 3: Somebody, no, no, you're good, somebody. Okay, if if if

793
01:00:52,519 --> 01:00:54,719
somebody goes out and commits murder because he believes that

794
01:00:54,800 --> 01:00:57,079
if he doesn't, you know, God has told him to

795
01:00:57,199 --> 01:00:59,639
his television that the world will end. Okay, Yeah, I'll

796
01:00:59,679 --> 01:01:02,079
accept that that's insanity as a matter of law, and

797
01:01:02,159 --> 01:01:05,760
colloquially that person's crazy. If you're doing things like these

798
01:01:05,800 --> 01:01:09,840
guys were doing that, that's not mental illness, it's it's

799
01:01:10,679 --> 01:01:17,760
it's evil taking what's ultimate, depraved extreme, whereby one drives

800
01:01:18,559 --> 01:01:25,519
satisfaction from a disgusting paraphilia that they believe is serving

801
01:01:26,400 --> 01:01:32,960
some sort of aesthetical or supernatural imperative. You know, I

802
01:01:33,119 --> 01:01:37,239
don't I that that's very much like a progressivest an

803
01:01:37,320 --> 01:01:41,239
enlightenment conceit that everything has some sort of illness. You know,

804
01:01:43,320 --> 01:01:45,679
if you know you're if you're if you're deeving or evil,

805
01:01:45,719 --> 01:01:49,840
it's because you're sick or there's some sort of mental disturbance.

806
01:01:50,960 --> 01:01:54,199
What's also too, I don't believe so there's so there's

807
01:01:54,280 --> 01:01:57,280
these four guys who just sort of come together in

808
01:01:57,320 --> 01:02:02,000
a greater metro area of five million people, and they're

809
01:02:02,039 --> 01:02:05,199
all under the same sort of mental illness that tends

810
01:02:05,239 --> 01:02:10,840
towards the most bizarre and sick paraphelia you can possibly imagine.

811
01:02:10,920 --> 01:02:13,079
I mean, that doesn't seem credible.

812
01:02:14,800 --> 01:02:19,639
Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly, So obviously we will continue with this series.

813
01:02:19,960 --> 01:02:22,280
You guys want to find Thomas. He's got his website,

814
01:02:22,440 --> 01:02:25,599
he's got a substack, got a YouTube channel now where

815
01:02:25,679 --> 01:02:28,880
you've been putting up a lot of your your backlog content.

816
01:02:29,360 --> 01:02:32,760
So if you've you've missed out on the last season

817
01:02:33,159 --> 01:02:36,639
of Mind Phaser, you can get those now. Highly recommend

818
01:02:36,719 --> 01:02:39,400
you guys check those out. As far as my stuff,

819
01:02:39,599 --> 01:02:43,480
Jay Burdon show, Apple, Spotify, YouTube, anywhere you listen to podcasts,

820
01:02:43,840 --> 01:02:45,599
this is what I do full time now. If you

821
01:02:45,639 --> 01:02:48,159
want to support me, throw me a few bucks on Patreon,

822
01:02:48,239 --> 01:02:51,400
substack or gum road. Get the episodes early in ad free.

823
01:02:53,159 --> 01:02:53,400
Speaker 3: Look.

824
01:02:53,800 --> 01:02:55,960
Speaker 4: I know the ads on the podcast are annoying, but

825
01:02:56,599 --> 01:03:01,199
I got a mortgage and my other options are even

826
01:03:01,239 --> 01:03:07,519
more embarrassing than running ads. So yeah, sorry, I guess anyway, Thomas,

827
01:03:07,719 --> 01:03:11,440
this has been interesting, if not exactly uplifting, but it's

828
01:03:11,480 --> 01:03:13,199
been great to have you back on man appreciate it.

829
01:03:13,559 --> 01:03:14,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you, buddy.

830
01:03:15,559 --> 01:03:17,719
Speaker 4: Ever been at home. Keep your head up. I can't

831
01:03:17,800 --> 01:03:18,840
last forever. Good Night,