Speaker 1: There is a woman who started learning Italian at ninety
Speaker 1: two years old. She's taken to it with flying colors,
Speaker 1: and she's not the exception. This week we discuss why
Speaker 1: it's never too late to begin and why the Italians
Speaker 1: will love you for trying.
Speaker 2: Chawatooti and Benvenuti Tuan Told Italy The travel podcast to
Speaker 2: where you go to the towns and villages, mountains and lakes,
Speaker 2: hills and coastlines of Bella, Italia. Each week, your host
Speaker 2: Katie Clark takes you on a journey in a search
Speaker 2: of magical landscapes, history, culture, wine, gelato, and of course
Speaker 2: a whole lot of pasta. If you're dreaming of Italy
Speaker 2: and planning future adventures there, you've come to the right place.
Speaker 1: Chao, Tuti and Benvenucci. Today I'm opening the vault for
Speaker 1: one of my favorite conversations from the archive. We'll be
Speaker 1: doing this every few episodes now as there is a
Speaker 1: lot for new listeners to catch up on. Also, I've
Speaker 1: had some interesting health diagnoses which is forcing me to
Speaker 1: slow down a little piano piano as they say in Italy,
Speaker 1: and I've had a lot of time to think about
Speaker 1: my travels in Italy, this podcast and what they mean
Speaker 1: to me.
Speaker 3: And all I can.
Speaker 1: Say is, if you're wondering whether you should take the trip,
Speaker 1: do take the trip. You just never know what's around
Speaker 1: the corner, and you won't ever regret taking that trip
Speaker 1: to Italy that you dreamed of. I'd also like to
Speaker 1: do a big chout out to Natalie Coo nine from
Speaker 1: the United States, who left the most lovely and thoughtful
Speaker 1: review on Apple Podcasts. Natalie, I really appreciate it and
Speaker 1: you made my day when I really needed it the most.
Speaker 3: Natalie asked if we could do some more episodes on Abruzzo,
Speaker 3: and yes, that is a great idea.
Speaker 1: Luckily we have just the person on our team snuggled
Speaker 1: into a tiny town there who can share a lot
Speaker 1: of insight. It's into that beautiful region. Now onto the episode.
Speaker 1: And so many of you have told me that you
Speaker 1: would love to speak a little Italian before your trip,
Speaker 1: and that something always holds you back. Usually it's the
Speaker 1: worry that speaking Italian is too hard or the feeling
Speaker 1: that you have left it too late. My guest and
Speaker 1: my friend Monica Cousinmani Bona runs an online Italian school
Speaker 1: and Sue Mazura Italy and she has a real gift
Speaker 1: for making the whole thing feel possible. So ANDIAMO, let's
Speaker 1: talk to Monica ben Venud de Monica. Welcome to the
Speaker 1: Untold Italy podcast. Thanks for having me here.
Speaker 3: I really enjoy the podcast and satan honor to be
Speaker 3: here with you.
Speaker 1: Oh, thank you, Monica. It's great to have you. And
Speaker 1: we've been following each other around the internet for a
Speaker 1: while now, so it's really great to have you on
Speaker 1: the podcast to talk about learning Italian, which as you know,
Speaker 1: I need to do better at. Well I want to
Speaker 1: do better at anyway. And I shared your introduction earlier
Speaker 1: with our listeners, but I would really love them to
Speaker 1: hear your story and what you do in your own words.
Speaker 3: First of all, yes, I'm Monica, and I always say
Speaker 3: that I'm a girl from Pimonte, which is a region
Speaker 3: in north of Italy. I grew up in a tiny
Speaker 3: little village with my family. My grandparents used to own
Speaker 3: a shop like a classic village shop with everything in there.
Speaker 3: We knew every customer by name, and that shop was
Speaker 3: open for fifty years by them, and now it's still
Speaker 3: often and another family is running the village. Is called
Speaker 3: Govone and it's sort of one hour from Tourno Turin
Speaker 3: in English. I moved to Australia in two thousand and
Speaker 3: thirteen after studying architecture, so I'm actually an architect in Italy.
Speaker 3: But when I came here, the idea was to stay
Speaker 3: here for probably aya English. I learned better English. I
Speaker 3: study English at school. So what happened is, like everyone
Speaker 3: study a language at school, they end up to go
Speaker 3: in a country and struggle when they start and they
Speaker 3: want to speak. So when I came to Australia, yes,
Speaker 3: my English wasn't great, so I couldn't really find a
Speaker 3: job as an architect, like I did find a job
Speaker 3: at the end for a couple of months. But what
Speaker 3: I did was starting to have languages exchange with the
Speaker 3: people here in Perth. I'm in Perth at the moment,
Speaker 3: so language exchange make me really thinking that learning a
Speaker 3: language was not as difficult as I thought. Lots of
Speaker 3: practice and having someone very friendly to speak with was nice.
Speaker 3: That led me to start to investigate more on how
Speaker 3: to learn a language, and I found out that yes
Speaker 3: I did like architecture or all the other jobs that
Speaker 3: I did while I was studying, but sharing the passion
Speaker 3: of learning another language became probably my first goal. So
Speaker 3: I study a lot and I opened this little school
Speaker 3: called Sumizura, Italy in twenty eighteen, so a couple of
Speaker 3: years after, with the intention of having a friendly guide
Speaker 3: and what I call mother in language, so someone that
Speaker 3: actually can help you learn a language, as I did
Speaker 3: when I came to Australia, in a friendly and a
Speaker 3: very relaxed way, very far from the classic way of
Speaker 3: learning a language, enrolling in a school that is all
Speaker 3: what I knew in the past. So yeah, from twenty
Speaker 3: eighteen I owned this little school. I start by myself
Speaker 3: with one on one lesson in person, but then things change.
Speaker 3: COVID came, so the school moved online and now we
Speaker 3: are a team of five. Mainly we do lesson one
Speaker 3: on one online, so we have students everywhere in the
Speaker 3: world and we share this way. They love that I
Speaker 3: have for the Italian language.
Speaker 1: Oh that's amazing. I love hearing about your journey. It's
Speaker 1: really interesting to learn how people came to be walking
Speaker 1: along their chosen paths and that you arrived at yours
Speaker 1: through architecture. And I also know a passion for food
Speaker 1: and wine and a trip to Australia where mine was
Speaker 1: kind of in reverse. Actually, so you know you've been
Speaker 1: on this journey of helping people to learn Italian, and
Speaker 1: what we wanted to talk to our listeners today is
Speaker 1: about whether Italian is a difficult language to learn. But
Speaker 1: before we really dive into that, perhaps you could share
Speaker 1: your opinion on if our travel loving audience should learn
Speaker 1: some Italian before.
Speaker 3: They arrive in Italy. I feel like when the Lorneing
Speaker 3: planet was big and I really loved it and use it.
Speaker 3: At the end of each Lorning Planet there was always
Speaker 3: a little vocabulary section and few little sentences. I think
Speaker 3: that part is still very big and should be a
Speaker 3: part of each travel wherever you go, especially if you
Speaker 3: travel to Italy. It's not necessary, okay, So, especially if
Speaker 3: you travel in main city like Venezia, Roma, ference Napoli,
Speaker 3: you will always find someone that speaks English restaurant, hotel,
Speaker 3: or like when you visit a place or museum. But
Speaker 3: the thing is, even if you go in those cities,
Speaker 3: if you are able to just say a nice word
Speaker 3: or use one of those sentences from the end of
Speaker 3: the Lone Planet in a nice way, doesn't matter. If
Speaker 3: you can understand the answer, but you are making an
Speaker 3: effort to communicate with the person that is in front
Speaker 3: of you in their language, that will change your trip.
Speaker 3: That will make your trip much more enjoyable because you'll
Speaker 3: see straight away the face of the person in front
Speaker 3: of you with a big smile. That person will be
Speaker 3: more willing to open with you and make sure that
Speaker 3: you have a great experience. So that could be just
Speaker 3: an easy word like pronouncing well bon journal, or don't
Speaker 3: say show to everyone but use the right greeting base
Speaker 3: on where you are, or just order your coffee in
Speaker 3: the way you like. No, doesn't need to be big.
Speaker 3: I always say maybe just like dive in even just
Speaker 3: by yourself while you're going there on your journey with
Speaker 3: the airplane, especially if you live in a in America,
Speaker 3: so it's quite far, so you have a bit of
Speaker 3: time to read those sentences and try to make them
Speaker 3: you're on. You don't have to be perfect, but you
Speaker 3: need to enjoy. That will make your trouble even longer
Speaker 3: because if you study a tiny bit before the journey
Speaker 3: that travel, it's actually longer now because you start to
Speaker 3: be in Italy without being there yet.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think You're right. It definitely builds some excitement
Speaker 1: before you go, and you're sort of thinking, oh, how
Speaker 1: can I order that gelato? When I'm there and it's
Speaker 1: you know, like instead of saying, oh, can I have chocolate?
Speaker 3: You know, it's a friend detO.
Speaker 1: You can have a you know, you feel like, oh,
Speaker 1: I'm a little bit Italian myself, and I do know
Speaker 1: in my you know, I need to do a lot better,
Speaker 1: but like I do, try with those basic things and
Speaker 1: it does make a big difference. And there's a bit
Speaker 1: of a thrill as well when you recognize some words
Speaker 1: that are being said to you. Just recently, we were
Speaker 1: at a restaurant and everyone at the table except me
Speaker 1: spoke fluent Italian and they were not all Italian, and
Speaker 1: the server was explaining the menu, and I was I
Speaker 1: could actually understand what was going on. So I was
Speaker 1: very proud of myself, you know, because I could understand
Speaker 1: what they were saying. And it does add just that
Speaker 1: little bit extra So instead of just sitting there kind
Speaker 1: of blankly going in English, please, you've got a little
Speaker 1: bit more insight into the culture. And apart from anything else,
Speaker 1: it sounds wonderful Italian with they were rolling ours and
Speaker 1: you know the accent. It's beautiful language. So I definitely
Speaker 1: think everyone should have a go when they're in Italy.
Speaker 3: But I think.
Speaker 1: Maybe some people think it's hard to learn. So what
Speaker 1: do you think about that?
Speaker 3: Okay? How hard that Our studies and maybe I mentioned
Speaker 3: those after that says which level of language, like which
Speaker 3: language has different level of difficulty to be learn especially
Speaker 3: for an English speaker in general, it depends what little
Speaker 3: goal you set. Okay, so it's hard. But how hard
Speaker 3: is to repeat like a sentence even if it's not
Speaker 3: the right pronunciation, But it's not really hard, is it?
Speaker 3: Like if I tell you please, can you repeat for Reye?
Speaker 3: Can you repeat that for me? It's not too difficult,
Speaker 3: isn't it?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 3: You might just want to ask me again and then
Speaker 3: I will say that again for Reye. So once you
Speaker 3: sort of like decide what is your goal, then you
Speaker 3: can understand, Okay, is it very difficult or not? Everyone
Speaker 3: can learn? Okay, So it's not something like nuts or
Speaker 3: like chemistry where you actually really need to have that
Speaker 3: kind of brain. Language are something we learn since we
Speaker 3: are zero, okay, So doesn't matter Like I have two
Speaker 3: little kids nineteen months old, and it's unbelievable how I
Speaker 3: can speak with him in English and in Italian. Any
Speaker 3: understand they have like a fresh brain and they don't
Speaker 3: have much stuff to think about. But everyone can learn,
Speaker 3: it's just a matter of practice. In fact, going back
Speaker 3: to answer your question, is that difficult actually Italian? So
Speaker 3: the four American Foreign Service Institute made a big ressarch
Speaker 3: in this make four different tire of languages, and based
Speaker 3: on that give you few indications on how hard it is.
Speaker 3: Actually Italian is in the easier tire. So if we
Speaker 3: look at Taiwan is Danish, Dutch, French, Italian, Norwegian, Portuguese, Panish,
Speaker 3: and Swedish. Then goes to German, Indonesian, Malay and Swahi.
Speaker 3: Then three there is Hebrew in the Greek, Russian, Turky, Vietnamese.
Speaker 3: And going to four is all the one that very
Speaker 3: have the letter and the alphabet very different, So Arabic, Chinese,
Speaker 3: which is contanies A, Mandarin, and Korea and Japanese. So
Speaker 3: that is the fourth time. Based on that sort of
Speaker 3: give you a little indicator on how many hours do
Speaker 3: you need to learn a language to be in a
Speaker 3: sort of like normal proficient level. Okay, So if your
Speaker 3: goal is going to Italy and have conversation about day
Speaker 3: to day things, not so asking Huh, how was the weather,
Speaker 3: what did you do last night? What are your planning
Speaker 3: for next year? What do you do as a job,
Speaker 3: and why your kids always complain about wanting to have
Speaker 3: the ice cream. That kind of conversation will take you
Speaker 3: between six hundred to seven fifty hours to reach that
Speaker 3: kind of level, when the last time, for instance, will
Speaker 3: take you two thy two hundred hours of practice. So
Speaker 3: it's very different. So that hopefully will explain you that
Speaker 3: Italian is not too difficult to learn compare to other languages. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think that's really interesting actually, because we have this
Speaker 1: perception in our mind of like things have to be instantaneous,
Speaker 1: you get it straight away. And I'm always telling my children, oh,
Speaker 1: you've got a practice. You're not going to be able
Speaker 1: to play that on the piano or the guitar, or
Speaker 1: you're not going to be able to do that step
Speaker 1: in your dancing without practicing. And then sometimes as adults
Speaker 1: we maybe forget that and when we want everything to
Speaker 1: be insted and it obviously does require some practice. And
Speaker 1: there's a really great book called Atomic Habits I don't
Speaker 1: know if you've ever read that one.
Speaker 3: Yes, I don't know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's so interesting, and he just says, you've got
Speaker 1: to practice or do a little bit all the time,
Speaker 1: and then there's like a tipping point where that pushes
Speaker 1: you over the edge and you'll you'll begin to make
Speaker 1: something a habit or you know, you begin to learn
Speaker 1: it and really internalize what you have learned and be
Speaker 1: able to practice it. And I just I always try
Speaker 1: and come back to that, because if you're not practicing
Speaker 1: something well, you can't really expect to expect to be
Speaker 1: getting very good at it.
Speaker 3: Correct In fact, it's nice that you mention your kids
Speaker 3: and you have to remind them. So what happen is
Speaker 3: lots of people come to me and say, I wish,
Speaker 3: you know, I couldn't speak Italian, but I'm too old.
Speaker 3: I wish I learned in the past my parents or
Speaker 3: my grandparents were Italian. They never spoke with me or
Speaker 3: they spoke with me, but just dialecting now I will
Speaker 3: not be able because I'm too old. There are two differents,
Speaker 3: like one is learning as a really young age like
Speaker 3: my kids age no, so be involved in the language
Speaker 3: from day one. That is a way to learn Italian
Speaker 3: or any language in genera. The other one is learning
Speaker 3: Italian as an adult. When you learn it Alian as
Speaker 3: an adult, you can make decisions, you decide to learn.
Speaker 3: You can think, okay, now I'm learning, I want to learn.
Speaker 3: And then that is when it's actually better to be adult,
Speaker 3: because you choose. No, you don't need anyone telling you.
Speaker 3: You know you need to study because you choose to study,
Speaker 3: so no one tell you, especially as an English speaker,
Speaker 3: you don't need to learn Italian, right when an Italian
Speaker 3: needs to learn English, okay. So once you choose to
Speaker 3: study for any reason you might have, and choose again
Speaker 3: your little goal or big goal, then as an adult
Speaker 3: you make it happen, okay, And you might sometimes need
Speaker 3: to have a guide. But these days it's much more
Speaker 3: easier to find ways to learn the language than in
Speaker 3: the past. When again, when I study Italian, I'm not
Speaker 3: too old, but when I study English, was just making
Speaker 3: lessons in a school. And maybe it's yes that aware
Speaker 3: to some tool to that will help you out, but
Speaker 3: that are aware definitely not all the other tools that
Speaker 3: we have available at the moment.
Speaker 1: Time for a quick break shorter than your morning Espresso.
Speaker 1: For daily travel tips and behind the scenes content from
Speaker 1: our tours. Make sure to follow us on Instagram at
Speaker 1: Untold Italy Tours. Yeah, there's so many, aren't there. There's
Speaker 1: like you know, I think everyone usually starts playing around
Speaker 1: with duo lingo and maybe then buys a course or
Speaker 1: something like that. But you know, what I always find
Speaker 1: with those is that I have to hold myself accountable sometimes,
Speaker 1: you know, life gets in the way, you know, And
Speaker 1: I think for me, I'm learning as I get older
Speaker 1: and older that I need to have some accountability in
Speaker 1: place that's external to me.
Speaker 3: And everyone's different.
Speaker 1: People have really got that self discipline where they can
Speaker 1: do you know, the learning on their own. For me,
Speaker 1: you know, I don't like to let people down, so
Speaker 1: like I feel like I do need a tutor because
Speaker 1: like I wouldn't want to disappoint anyone, if you know
Speaker 1: what I mean.
Speaker 3: So I think.
Speaker 1: Everyone needs to maybe if they're thinking about learning anything,
Speaker 1: not just the languages, to think about their learning style
Speaker 1: and what's really going to work for them.
Speaker 3: Yeah, correct, and more you are adults and more, you
Speaker 3: know what you need. No, I have students that are
Speaker 3: so good that they I mean, I wish I was
Speaker 3: like them. They set a timer every night, like before
Speaker 3: going to bed, and they do five minutes of Italian
Speaker 3: or other students that every time. They go for a
Speaker 3: walk constantly every morning before going to work, and they
Speaker 3: put up their podcast. So as we were mentioned, you
Speaker 3: know you can if you like to cook that you
Speaker 3: can go on Instagram and follow all these Italian cook
Speaker 3: and listen them to speak, reading their recipe. Try to
Speaker 3: use the recipe in it, like while you're cooking, repeat
Speaker 3: the ingredients in Italian. If you like play video games,
Speaker 3: you can play video games in Italian. Watching movies apps
Speaker 3: dueling is a great app to mention, but there are
Speaker 3: also apps that make easier to learn. For instance, there
Speaker 3: are apps that you can download on your computer, so
Speaker 3: while you're watching Netflix, even if that Netflix show doesn't
Speaker 3: have subtitle in Italian, you can download this after put
Speaker 3: the sub title on the language you choose. So there
Speaker 3: are lots of tools. There is YouTube podcast of course,
Speaker 3: books like traditional learning books, online courses that are great tools,
Speaker 3: like so they already set up you can download. They
Speaker 3: are definitely cheaper than other thing, but they give you
Speaker 3: a guide and you sort of like two steps by
Speaker 3: steps so it depends how you are. I feel like
Speaker 3: all of those needs a bit of a guide, even
Speaker 3: if you are very good. But then if you don't
Speaker 3: have anyone experience in learning a language or teaching a language,
Speaker 3: then it's actually difficult to say, oh, okay, now I
Speaker 3: see tire, I have time. I want to learn. But
Speaker 3: how I can put all the information that I have,
Speaker 3: like even dueling on, and how I can start to speak,
Speaker 3: because at the end of the story, we want to speak.
Speaker 3: We can have lots of vocabulary, but then if we
Speaker 3: can't put them together and we don't have a structure,
Speaker 3: which sometimes is a bad word, it's called grammar. But
Speaker 3: if we don't have that, then it's very difficult to yeah,
Speaker 3: to start speaking. So I feel like if you have
Speaker 3: a guide and then can be like a tutor, but
Speaker 3: can be once a week, once a month, or once
Speaker 3: every six months, doesn't matter. They give you a plan
Speaker 3: and then if you are able to follow the plan
Speaker 3: by yourself, then you do. Otherwise you keep doing that.
Speaker 3: You need to have a plan not and sometimes, yes,
Speaker 3: I definitely think that sometimes people needs more a guidance.
Speaker 3: I'm the same I don't really like to go to
Speaker 3: the gym, and I know if I have a personal trainer,
Speaker 3: I will go, I will exercise, and I will think
Speaker 3: about even when I'm at tom to try to do
Speaker 3: some of the exercise, not all the exercise that they
Speaker 3: suggest me. So, yeah, the brain is another muscle and
Speaker 3: you have to train. It doesn't matter if it's for
Speaker 3: the language or anything you're learning. You need to create
Speaker 3: a habit and train.
Speaker 1: It's so true, like it's ridiculously simple in a lot
Speaker 1: of ways, really, isn't it. It's not like I think
Speaker 1: we really try and maybe set these expectations and then
Speaker 1: we go, oh, that's all too hard. But actually, really
Speaker 1: learning anything is quite straightforward, and we maybe be overcomplicated
Speaker 1: a little bit.
Speaker 3: This is the problem of adults. Sometimes we put too
Speaker 3: much stress and we are so judging ourselves and we say, well,
Speaker 3: at this point, I should not isn't that and I
Speaker 3: should be better? And I went to Italy and I
Speaker 3: actually I couldn't speak. No, But then this is the
Speaker 3: first time you went to Italian you couldn't speak. Then
Speaker 3: next time, if you practice a little more, you will
Speaker 3: be able to speak a little more. So it's the journey.
Speaker 3: I feel like, if you can try to not thinking
Speaker 3: too much about the goal, but thinking about like how
Speaker 3: amazing is your brain and how much you are learning
Speaker 3: Every time you are actually put yourself on the tot
Speaker 3: of learning the language, then it's amazing because then you
Speaker 3: feel proud of yourself and your little steps.
Speaker 1: And I think, you know you mentioned before like some
Speaker 1: people think, oh, I'm too old to learn, or you know,
Speaker 1: like I've got too much going on, But it really
Speaker 1: does take just a little step out of every day
Speaker 1: to learn something, even if it's a new language. And
Speaker 1: I would like at this point to say a shout
Speaker 1: out to Dana, who is a very good friend of
Speaker 1: my parents who learns Italian every week. She makes a
Speaker 1: bit of an effort to go and do that, and
Speaker 1: she's had many adventures in Italy, going around on buses
Speaker 1: in remote areas and having a lot of fun. But
Speaker 1: she just keeps going, and you know, that's really what's required.
Speaker 1: And I think we can get easily kind of distracted
Speaker 1: with everything, but I do think the sticking points and
Speaker 1: where people may be I think it's maybe a confidencing
Speaker 1: is around the grammar and pronunciation. So you don't want
Speaker 1: to sound silly by saying a sentence that doesn't make
Speaker 1: sense or doesn't sound as lovely as the way you
Speaker 1: speak Italian. I think that's maybe where some people get stuck.
Speaker 3: Is that your experience, Yes, more than pronunciation. I feel
Speaker 3: like every time people come to me I have to
Speaker 3: learn any language in the past, especially have the main
Speaker 3: moory of school, it's the grammar. Every time people hands
Speaker 3: and say I want to learn a language, but I
Speaker 3: don't want to learn the grammar. It's too difficult. Can
Speaker 3: we just do conversational And I said, yes, we do,
Speaker 3: will conversate from day one, but you need to touch grammar.
Speaker 3: If I change the grammar, world in another world. And
Speaker 3: I say, I'm just gonna teach you some rules, I
Speaker 3: think that scares you less. I just give you some
Speaker 3: tips on how to put together words or how to
Speaker 3: change the ending of these words to make it work
Speaker 3: in a sentence. Yes, sometimes we just worried about the
Speaker 3: memory we have of learning a language, especially as an adult,
Speaker 3: than what is actually is now. I feel like English
Speaker 3: has less grammar than Italian or grammar rules, but for
Speaker 3: an Italian it's actually really difficult because we have to
Speaker 3: convert so many things that in English are converting one thing,
Speaker 3: and then we think, oh, it's not possible, we need
Speaker 3: to make it more difficult. But anyway, once you have
Speaker 3: those rules explain to you in a nice way, not
Speaker 3: too difficult, very practical, using the sentences and speaking out,
Speaker 3: then it's not too difficult for pronunciation. I feel like
Speaker 3: there is a big mistakes people think. Sometimes people think
Speaker 3: I don't have a good pronunciation, and sometimes it's the accent. Okay.
Speaker 3: So I tell you that good pronunciation has to be learned,
Speaker 3: and I feel like it's very good if you make
Speaker 3: an effort to learn pronunciation, but accent is very difficult, okay.
Speaker 3: So if you can distinguish these two, then it's good.
Speaker 3: Because I speak English at the moment, but you definitely
Speaker 3: can hear my accent, okay, But I still communicate with you.
Speaker 3: It's now eleven years that I speak English, so imagine
Speaker 3: how long it took me to get here, okay and
Speaker 3: speaking that level. And I was here for the last
Speaker 3: six years. Then I stepp. I was in Italy for
Speaker 3: a year, in Spain for another year, and back again
Speaker 3: two years in person. So before that I don't count
Speaker 3: because I don't count my learning language. When I was
Speaker 3: in school wasn't wasn't speaking was just learning rules back then,
Speaker 3: learning the grammar. If you can just distinguish these two things,
Speaker 3: you can You will very hard to have the perfect accent,
Speaker 3: but you can learn the right pronunciation. And pronunciation is fine.
Speaker 3: Like I always say, if you learn to say nyocchi
Speaker 3: in the right way, okay, and don't say noki. It's
Speaker 3: not because you have a right accent, you have just
Speaker 3: a right pronunciation. So if I tell you that gn
Speaker 3: in Italian has to be read, every time you see
Speaker 3: gn in Italian, you have to think about the world
Speaker 3: that New York or Kenyan and why so if you
Speaker 3: think about the word kenyan and now you say nyoki
Speaker 3: because as the same new sound, then it's done. So
Speaker 3: this is a rule. I'm just I just explained you
Speaker 3: a grandmar rule, and having that then you will never
Speaker 3: make the mistakes. Maybe you will sound a bit American,
Speaker 3: or sound a bit Australia or English or Spanish, doesn't matter,
Speaker 3: but you pronunciate that world right. So this is the
Speaker 3: different and I think everyone can get the right pronunciation,
Speaker 3: maybe not the right accent.
Speaker 1: I've got a question. This is like totally it's a
Speaker 1: little bit off topic. But it's always fascinated me. If
Speaker 1: an Australian is speaking Italian. Can you tell the difference
Speaker 1: between if an Australian is speaking Italian or if an
Speaker 1: American is speaking Italian?
Speaker 3: I can, I mean, because it's my job. Yeah, not
Speaker 3: many people can. But as an English speaker, when you
Speaker 3: hear an American, you know he's American, and when you
Speaker 3: hear English, you know he's English or Indian, this English,
Speaker 3: you know Italian. When they hear you speaking like in English,
Speaker 3: they will not recognize, especially if they haven't studied or
Speaker 3: they haven't spent time in one of those countries, they
Speaker 3: will not distinguish. They will hardly they will say, oh,
Speaker 3: this is Australian, this is American. For us, it's all
Speaker 3: English okay, and all difficult okay. As for you it's
Speaker 3: difficult Italian. But when we are, when we are Italian,
Speaker 3: we can definitely know this person is from Pimonte, or
Speaker 3: this person is from Rome, or this person is from Naples,
Speaker 3: not because of their dialect, but because of their accent.
Speaker 3: Thing that may be at the start you as a learner,
Speaker 3: you will not understand. And this is why when we
Speaker 3: do what we call Italian for tourists. I always ask,
Speaker 3: because we customize for each student, we always ask where
Speaker 3: are you going to go? Because there are some words
Speaker 3: that are used more in the South, more in Rome,
Speaker 3: or more in Piemonte that will change very much language
Speaker 3: now it's not the different language, but just a way whispit.
Speaker 1: That's so true because my husband's mum and he learned
Speaker 1: Italian from his mom, and they're from the south and
Speaker 1: they seem to drop the last letter of a word. Yeah,
Speaker 1: does that in English too, actually, so it's quite interesting
Speaker 1: to see. But like you can definitely see and we
Speaker 1: don't need to go into the politics of the north
Speaker 1: versus South in Italy, but you know, people definitely know
Speaker 1: if you're from the north or the south, and sometimes
Speaker 1: you get a little reaction different ways. So I think
Speaker 1: that's a really great service that you're offering, because you know,
Speaker 1: recently we were also in Venice and was with someone
Speaker 1: who was from Tarno actually, and yeah, there was some
Speaker 1: you know, you could see that there were you know,
Speaker 1: we know if you're not from here, we know you're Italian,
Speaker 1: we know that you're not from here. It was quite
Speaker 1: interesting to learn, especially if you come from a country
Speaker 1: where you can't really tell the accents unless you're very attentive.
Speaker 1: There are been in Australia where I think everyone thinks
Speaker 1: there's just one accent. There's actually I think there's more
Speaker 1: than one accent. It's but in Italy it's very hyper local,
Speaker 1: isn't it. So you've got like so many different accents
Speaker 1: and ways of speaking Italian in general.
Speaker 3: I always say that my grandmother when I speak dialect
Speaker 3: and my diet, it is little, but it's there. When
Speaker 3: I speak dialect, my my grandmother always say, you seem
Speaker 3: like someone that comes from Torino, which is one hour
Speaker 3: from where we are. No, so she says that my
Speaker 3: dialect is actually not the diet from the village, like
Speaker 3: more a city dialect is more like refined dialect. So
Speaker 3: it's very interesting. How yeah, the language change. And this
Speaker 3: is I really want to say. You know, like this
Speaker 3: is why it's so good to learn a language, because
Speaker 3: while you're learning another language, you actually learn more about
Speaker 3: your own. You learn like I have students says I
Speaker 3: never understood English or grammar rule until I study Italian.
Speaker 3: Now I know why I'm saying that. So if I
Speaker 3: have to tell my children like we are using their
Speaker 3: do indeed, and now I'm not exactly when I use it.
Speaker 3: So it opened up so much your brain. And this
Speaker 3: is why they say when you learn another language, you
Speaker 3: have less chance to get dementia. It's one other very
Speaker 3: important thing to do, like learning another language will help
Speaker 3: you out, so because really it will make your brain
Speaker 3: or the gray white part with your brain that works
Speaker 3: so much like learning and improving and open up your world.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, yeah, making those different wide connections in the brain totally.
Speaker 1: I just I find it fascinating actually, like just to
Speaker 1: understand the different ways that your brain works in learning anything.
Speaker 3: I'm gonna put my hand on.
Speaker 1: I learned French and Gien up until the end of school,
Speaker 1: but you're right, it didn't actually sink in. I was
Speaker 1: very good at passing exams, so I did very well.
Speaker 1: And you do do a bit of speaking in that sense.
Speaker 1: But you know, I was recently in Germany and it
Speaker 1: did come back beit the German which was like, oh
Speaker 1: where did that come from? It was seeing there somewhere, Yeah.
Speaker 3: Nothing completely lost, so you know, like he's there. And
Speaker 3: I always say knowing something is better than nothing, like
Speaker 3: whether you have the dialect, whether you study at primary school,
Speaker 3: whether you learn with due lingo for or five years
Speaker 3: in a row, everything is useful to build up. But
Speaker 3: then yes, you need to speak and you need to
Speaker 3: practice lots of hours and they don't need to be
Speaker 3: all in the same week. You can do one hour
Speaker 3: a week and take longer, or you can do five
Speaker 3: minutes a day, or doesn't matter how you do it,
Speaker 3: and it's just everything is building up somewhere. Okay, it
Speaker 3: depends how much time and how much you want to
Speaker 3: be involved. It has to be nice, you know, like
Speaker 3: we don't have to have mark source core, or like
Speaker 3: we don't need to pass exams. If we do it,
Speaker 3: we do it for ourself. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think that's the key thing as well. If you
Speaker 1: want to learn something and you do it for yourself
Speaker 1: and you're much more motivated than if you're.
Speaker 3: Forced to do it.
Speaker 1: Well, I mean it depends. When you're younger, you're kind
Speaker 1: of motivated by not getting in trouble for not doing it,
Speaker 1: not getting good grades often. But but yeah, I think
Speaker 1: it's a much nicer way to learn if you've got
Speaker 1: that motivation yourself, and like you said, like just getting
Speaker 1: started in different ways, it builds up and up, and
Speaker 1: I actually to maybe I'm being a bit harsh on myself,
Speaker 1: but every time I do go to Italy things do
Speaker 1: you become a bit easier? And I'm thinking to myself, now,
Speaker 1: when if I really practice a lot more, imagine how
Speaker 1: I'll be the next time that I go. So, how
Speaker 1: do you think we can understand how we're making progress
Speaker 1: in our language learning? Are there any sort of key
Speaker 1: markers that you would think that, oh, yes, someone's really
Speaker 1: taken the next step to the next level. Before we continue,
Speaker 1: here are a few messages for on the go, curated
Speaker 1: travel tips, restaurant recommendations and fun things to do in
Speaker 1: classic and hidden spots across Italy. Download the Untold Italy
Speaker 1: app link in the show notes.
Speaker 3: Okay, so that a different way you can do it
Speaker 3: first is booking a tour or going to it taking
Speaker 3: once a year, so you, as you were saying, you
Speaker 3: will notice that you're here, that you can understand more
Speaker 3: or you can speak more every year. So that's probably
Speaker 3: the first thing you can do. Easy. I always say
Speaker 3: to students to record themselves these days. You can take
Speaker 3: your fine yourself saying simple sentences or whatever comes in
Speaker 3: your mind, because whatever like can be oh I'm brushing
Speaker 3: my teeth and recording yourself and then record yourself in
Speaker 3: a six months time or a year time. That is
Speaker 3: another good thing. Or even just taking any Italian article okay,
Speaker 3: or a book or anything you can read in Italian
Speaker 3: and record yourself or your voice reading that article in Italian.
Speaker 3: You will hear that you get more fluent because the
Speaker 3: words will be better pronunciate and everything will go faster. Okay,
Speaker 3: and you can hear from your voice that you're not
Speaker 3: just reading words, but you actually are making sense, like
Speaker 3: all those words making sense. This is another way, definitely,
Speaker 3: if you have the help of a tutor. The tutor
Speaker 3: can tell you, now, okay, we tick all this stuff out,
Speaker 3: but not just sticking. I know you can use the past.
Speaker 3: You can speak about how was your experience and yesterday
Speaker 3: and you can say yesterday or no, tomorrow, I want
Speaker 3: to go to visit the Fitzi Museum. Okay, so you
Speaker 3: can speak presently past. So you're taking all this stuff.
Speaker 3: So this is another way. I feel the best way
Speaker 3: knowing that you are making progress is how you feel
Speaker 3: with the language, and sometimes like you become addicted again
Speaker 3: going back to the habit At one point I feel
Speaker 3: like when you get so used to learn the language
Speaker 3: that you are actually thinking in Italian, but not thinking
Speaker 3: and speaking with your husband all the time in Italian.
Speaker 3: Is just like while you're driving saying, oh, that's very interesting.
Speaker 3: How would I say that in Italian? How would I say?
Speaker 3: I should break now? Otherwise I hit the car in
Speaker 3: the front. So if you can recognize yourself having that thought,
Speaker 3: that is when you're actually making progress because you are
Speaker 3: curious about the language, and you are learning very fast
Speaker 3: because every time you ask yourself a question, then what
Speaker 3: happen is you will know everything except the word indicator. Okay,
Speaker 3: indicator is Italian is frictchuer okay. So now that you
Speaker 3: translate with me, but you could translate with your Google translator,
Speaker 3: that word you are learning because you knew all the
Speaker 3: sentences except that word. So that's another good way to
Speaker 3: feel that you're making progress because the following time you
Speaker 3: probably will remember the fracture, which actually means arrow. And
Speaker 3: this is why I always say to my husband, you
Speaker 3: didn't put arrow, And it's like what a row is
Speaker 3: an indicator? This is like how it's there is the
Speaker 3: design and the indicators really arrow, So this is why
Speaker 3: we call arrow frict. So yeah, when you when you
Speaker 3: consider yourself, when you when you notice yourself thinking in
Speaker 3: that other language or thinking this is when you make
Speaker 3: the most progress.
Speaker 1: I think, Oh, that's really interesting because when you said
Speaker 1: fred chair, I knew what it was and I was like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: because the fred chair is the train.
Speaker 3: Right Ah, yes as well because they go very fast
Speaker 3: like an.
Speaker 1: Yeah, making the progress. So just circtling back to the
Speaker 1: grammar though, because I was thinking while you were talking
Speaker 1: that it's very interesting because maybe people have a block
Speaker 1: on learning languages when they're an English speaker because we're
Speaker 1: not actually taught the grammar. And I know, you know,
Speaker 1: when I was at primary school, when we were doing English,
Speaker 1: it very little grammar was actually taught because there aren't
Speaker 1: maybe there aren't so many rules in English, and so
Speaker 1: I don't know whether that's something that blocks people too,
Speaker 1: because we were not in the discipline of learning the
Speaker 1: rules of a language. And I think, yeah, like I
Speaker 1: watch my kids are at primary or elementary school and
Speaker 1: almost middle school, and they really they learn apostrophes and
Speaker 1: stuff like that, but it's not really a structure of
Speaker 1: a language.
Speaker 3: You're sort of English seems to be a little bit
Speaker 3: more free form. Would that be right? It's not, But
Speaker 3: I just think that more than the language, you need
Speaker 3: to learn the vocabulary of the grammar. So, for instance,
Speaker 3: what I noticed when I start teaching was every time
Speaker 3: I was speaking about verbs, adjective adverbs, people were like, oh,
Speaker 3: I don't know what you're speaking about, you know. But
Speaker 3: then I discovered that if you learn those words before
Speaker 3: starting to learn a language, or when you start to
Speaker 3: learn a language, then will make the process easier. So
Speaker 3: if I explain you, for instance, it's a verb, is
Speaker 3: a doing world okay, it's something you do. Okay, So
Speaker 3: it can be iron, it can be brush your hair,
Speaker 3: or can be speaking, then you know this is a verb.
Speaker 3: In English, is any word that can be anticipated by
Speaker 3: the word too, okay, So to do something to it,
Speaker 3: to play In Italian we don't have the tool, but
Speaker 3: we have the end of the part of the world
Speaker 3: that is a So every time you hear manjari beri
Speaker 3: parlai kantari, you know that those words are verbs. Okay.
Speaker 3: So once once you want to learn a language, I
Speaker 3: really suggest that there is a really nice book It's
Speaker 3: called something like English grammars to learn Italian. So will
Speaker 3: really briefly explain you all the English rules and all
Speaker 3: these names. And this is if you want to do
Speaker 3: it by yourself. Is a book. It's probably two under
Speaker 3: pages or maybe a little less. But that's something you
Speaker 3: can do otherwise when you start to approach, whether tutor
Speaker 3: or you have a course, or you can ask someone,
Speaker 3: or you want to watch video, YouTube, whatever. But I
Speaker 3: suggest before starting to learn the language, just go through
Speaker 3: those names. Okay. So when then you will have the
Speaker 3: explanation and you speak, you hear the world objective. You
Speaker 3: know that an adjective is like words like beautiful, bad, nice,
Speaker 3: or ugly? Okay, does that objective? So because they describe better? Okay?
Speaker 3: So yeah, it's definitely something I will suggest everyone to
Speaker 3: start to learn a language, just to do even if
Speaker 3: you think you know, like just do it anyway, not
Speaker 3: because they will make your process in the future much easier. Interesting.
Speaker 1: I know your children haven't yet started at school yet,
Speaker 1: but it'd be interesting to circle back with you in
Speaker 1: a few years time to see how you think the
Speaker 1: teaching of language is really. I think it's actually very
Speaker 1: different in English speaking countries to any other country. Actually so,
Speaker 1: and I hope that it doesn't make it harder, but
Speaker 1: I suspect it might be some sort of impediment because
Speaker 1: we're not taught those words very clearly. I mean, I
Speaker 1: think when I was talking to my children the other day,
Speaker 1: they do know some of these, but I think I'm
Speaker 1: going to test them. I'm going to do a test
Speaker 1: when they get home. What's a better you know what
Speaker 1: we go doing with?
Speaker 3: Okay, oh mom, stop it an now, it's scary. It's
Speaker 3: scary because I really hope, Like I always say, in Australia,
Speaker 3: there is this year until the year twelve or the
Speaker 3: year twelve exam in Italian and lots of parents push
Speaker 3: kids to do that, and I feel like, unless they
Speaker 3: really want, I always say to parents, stop, please, don't
Speaker 3: do it, because sometimes end up that the students will
Speaker 3: hate the language for how the program is. Don't get
Speaker 3: me wrong. There are beautiful teachers out there, but a
Speaker 3: lots of teacher, especially the teacher from primary school. And
Speaker 3: I know by experience because I taught them like they
Speaker 3: are because there is not much probably interest or I
Speaker 3: don't know how it works really, but I taught English
Speaker 3: or Australian teacher to teach Italian. So they came to
Speaker 3: me and say, oh, the director of the schoo wants
Speaker 3: me to teach Italian because I have an Italian surname.
Speaker 3: Can you please give me a few ideas? And this
Speaker 3: is what they do. So it doesn't happen all the time. Okay,
Speaker 3: I'm not saying that, but it's scary how unfortunately the
Speaker 3: language school is. It's because the English is very important
Speaker 3: and all the other language are not. So I feel
Speaker 3: like they will never do probably something like this with
Speaker 3: Matt to a math teacher or like a chemistry or whatever.
Speaker 3: So it's a bit sad, and I really I know
Speaker 3: there are lots of teachers here in Australia, I don't
Speaker 3: know everywhere in the world, but that are like fighting
Speaker 3: against this way of taking the language at school. So
Speaker 3: I really hope I will change. But if it doesn't,
Speaker 3: I know there will be either way to learn the
Speaker 3: language which are not at school.
Speaker 1: So yeah, well, Olivia, who we both know and who
Speaker 1: is on the podcast a lot. I mean, this is
Speaker 1: just a great example of someone who was to take
Speaker 1: to learn Italian and she just did it. She I
Speaker 1: think she learned some in primary school, so did I
Speaker 1: and basically we just played tombala which is bingo, and
Speaker 1: we learned was like gatto which is cat and gane.
Speaker 1: You still remember, yeah, I still remember all that. But Olivia,
Speaker 1: you know, she was just so determined, and she took
Speaker 1: herself off to Italy and stayed in a family and
Speaker 1: went to a school. And I think it wasn't until
Speaker 1: she started living in the family that she realized she
Speaker 1: didn't really know very much at all. But now it's
Speaker 1: so wonderful. She's completely fluent, and you know, maybe she
Speaker 1: doesn't have some technical knowledge to you know, if something
Speaker 1: gets very technical or legal or something like that, but
Speaker 1: I mean, for all intents and purposes, she's fluent. And
Speaker 1: I just think it's fantastic. And it just goes to
Speaker 1: show that if you put your mind to it and
Speaker 1: you tried lots of different approaches, that eventually it will
Speaker 1: pay off.
Speaker 3: And this is a beautiful price you receive at the end.
Speaker 3: And it's funny because you mentioned Olivia and I if
Speaker 3: you think that if she never put herself in this situation,
Speaker 3: probably she was not going to get married with an Italian,
Speaker 3: you know, like it's crazy how another language can change
Speaker 3: completely your life. This was my story. I got married
Speaker 3: with the sailing guy, so yeah, I When I was
Speaker 3: in school, the teacher told my mom was probably what
Speaker 3: you compare here to year eight, like it's our tertza media.
Speaker 3: So terta media is before secondary school, so it's sort
Speaker 3: of like you're in the middle. And told my mom
Speaker 3: sent her to a professional school like hair stylist or something.
Speaker 3: That is because she is not good to learn things.
Speaker 3: She's not good to study English is so bad, she
Speaker 3: will never do anything in her life. This is what
Speaker 3: she said. And I was there. I'll never forget that.
Speaker 3: Oh and she was probably just a really old style teacher.
Speaker 3: And I was a very active girl. I wanted to
Speaker 3: chat with everyone, so I was always like chatting with
Speaker 3: my friends. And yes, it's true. I didn't really like
Speaker 3: to study too much. I didn't like to study anything
Speaker 3: until I was like the last two years of secondary school,
Speaker 3: and then my life changed completely. So I don't know
Speaker 3: what happened. Probably the friends that I had they were
Speaker 3: more studying more or I was just growing up and
Speaker 3: I probably had less energy like to spend in running
Speaker 3: around and doing other stuff. But yes, this thought of
Speaker 3: me not being able to learn another language follow me
Speaker 3: until I came to Australia in twenty thirteen. Okay, because
Speaker 3: it's true, I came with this really big wish to
Speaker 3: learn the language and then go back after a year.
Speaker 3: So far I now know to speak English as you
Speaker 3: can hear Italian, of course, but then Spanish because so
Speaker 3: then I went t one year in Spain and I
Speaker 3: learned Spanish and Portuguese. I can understand French because again
Speaker 3: it's very similar, but also because I studied back at school,
Speaker 3: so I can understand I can't speak. So don't tell
Speaker 3: anyone that you cannot learn a language, or it's just
Speaker 3: the way that has been taught to you that was
Speaker 3: not good for you, Okay, So find your way and
Speaker 3: then you'll do it. No, and doesn't matter what age.
Speaker 3: I was twenty six when I start speaking the language.
Speaker 3: Our youngest student, because I don't. I mean, we have
Speaker 3: a few kids, but I don't particularly teach them. There
Speaker 3: is a teacher that is just for kids, but in general,
Speaker 3: so let's say from ten. But my oldest student is
Speaker 3: ninety two, okay, and she just started a few years ago,
Speaker 3: and she said to me, I always had this desire.
Speaker 3: My husband died. I have lots of time and I
Speaker 3: want to use it. So she is doing that now,
Speaker 3: So doesn't matter what age. And don't let anyone tell
Speaker 3: and not even you, naha, I don't tell yourself. I
Speaker 3: can't do it because everyone can.
Speaker 1: Oh, Monica, there is such wise words.
Speaker 3: I just think that it's so true.
Speaker 1: Mindset and listening to your gut maybe not your head
Speaker 1: sometimes is probably the best way to approach it. And
Speaker 1: definitely all goodness. I hope you see that teacher one day,
Speaker 1: and I mean, I'm sure it was said out of
Speaker 1: fairly good intentions, but there's no point to limit people
Speaker 1: or limit yourself because like I love this lady ninety
Speaker 1: two years old, that's incredible, amazing. I really think this
Speaker 1: chat will help our listeners build confidence. And if you
Speaker 1: can't get confidence from knowing that a ninety two year
Speaker 1: old has started their learning Italian journey, then I don't
Speaker 1: know what's going to help you. But thank you for
Speaker 1: sharing all those tips and advice and insight into learning Italian.
Speaker 1: If our listeners would like to stay in touch with
Speaker 1: you and maybe get someone to one tuition with your team,
Speaker 1: how can they do that?
Speaker 3: They can go on my website, which is Sumisura Italy
Speaker 3: dot com. Maybe you'll write on the notes and book
Speaker 3: a meet and greet with me. Once you book a
Speaker 3: meet and greet, I will be there, so together we
Speaker 3: will build a plan. I want to know everything about you,
Speaker 3: and then we make a plan and then you start studying.
Speaker 3: That's one way. If you just want to keep in
Speaker 3: touch and just wrighten me or ask me question, probably
Speaker 3: the easiest way is email, of course, which is on
Speaker 3: my website, or follow me on my social media page
Speaker 3: on Instagram. Again Italian assume as Italy will put that
Speaker 3: note as well, But yeah, please get in touch for
Speaker 3: any question and even if you just need a little
Speaker 3: motivation to start, that sounds amazing.
Speaker 1: I think I'm motivated now by this ninety two year
Speaker 1: old lady. What an inspiration anyway, amazing, amazing, Monica, Gratia Mili,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining us on Untold Italy.
Speaker 3: Gratzia, there was very nice to be here now.
Speaker 1: I think, as Monica says, there are now so many
Speaker 1: ways to learn a language or anything really that you
Speaker 1: need to find the methods that work best for you,
Speaker 1: get started and practice regularly. Like I said, I'm definitely
Speaker 1: someone who needs some sort of accountability built into anything
Speaker 1: that I do, as I really don't like feeling that
Speaker 1: I've let other people down. Whatever works for you, though,
Speaker 1: but I think we can all agree that it is
Speaker 1: very difficult to make progress without practice. If you're interested
Speaker 1: in getting a direct Italian language coaching tailored to your needs,
Speaker 1: or staying in touch with her, you can find all
Speaker 1: Monica's details on our website show notes at Untold Italy
Speaker 1: dot com. Forward slash two one eight for episode two
Speaker 1: hundred and eighteen Grazier. Thanks to all our wonderful listeners
Speaker 1: for your ongoing support of Untold Italy. I hope you
Speaker 1: enjoyed today's show. If you did, then it would be
Speaker 1: incredible if you gave us a rating or review in
Speaker 1: your favorite podcast app. That way, we can reach more
Speaker 1: Italy travel lovers just like you. If you listen on Spotify,
Speaker 1: you can also leave comments on each episode, and I
Speaker 1: really love reading all of those. Unfortunately, Spotify haven't worked
Speaker 1: out a way for podcasters to reply to questions on
Speaker 1: that function just yet, but we are pushing for it
Speaker 1: chow for now. The Untold Italy podcast is an independent
Speaker 1: production podcast editing, audio production and website development by Mark Hatter,
Speaker 1: Production assistance and content writing by the Are they kg Clark, Yes,
Speaker 1: there are two of us. For more information about Untold Italy,
Speaker 1: please visit untold Italy dot com