Speaker 1: I want to welcome everyone back to the Pecana Show.
Speaker 1: I am here with Ernst and Rob. How are you, gentlemen, Joan,
Speaker 1: I'm good, Thanks new doing good?
Speaker 2: Rob?
Speaker 3: Oh, pretty grand, pretty grand.
Speaker 1: I'm going to give each of you, gentlemen individually a
Speaker 1: chance to just give a quick introduction to your tell
Speaker 1: a little bit about yourself. Ernest, why don't you go first?
Speaker 2: Well, Well, the short version of it is, I work
Speaker 2: for AFRI Forum, the largest of all rights organization in
Speaker 2: the Southern Hemisphere. I'm a campaign's office for strategy and
Speaker 2: content there. But that's my occupation and my job. But
Speaker 2: then also part of my hobby that's also connected to
Speaker 2: my job is my YouTube channel and my Twitter account
Speaker 2: where I comment on all things from regarding culture politics
Speaker 2: here at the southern tip of Africa specifically. Well, I
Speaker 2: started off when I created my channel by commenting a
Speaker 2: lot more on things of broad politics in America and Europe.
Speaker 2: But then I just started focusing a lot more on
Speaker 2: South Africa and Africa, seeing as there are millions of
Speaker 2: people much better and stronger and smarter than me, stronger
Speaker 2: in their thoughts when it comes to an analysis on
Speaker 2: America and Europe and whatever they can focus on that.
Speaker 2: I'm going to focus on Africa and South Africa that
Speaker 2: I know, the part of the world that I experienced,
Speaker 2: the part of the world that I can do a
Speaker 2: BS test firsthand if something is true or not, just
Speaker 2: maybe a final thought there when it comes to that
Speaker 2: idea of being on the ground. It's the strangest thing
Speaker 2: when you hear other pundits or other commentators discuss the
Speaker 2: country that you live in but people abroad, and you
Speaker 2: just realize they're just talking the most absolute, just nonsense,
Speaker 2: like whatever they're saying is just absolutely, verifiably not true,
Speaker 2: and their audience is just eating it up. And You're
Speaker 2: sitting there in the audience thinking like, this guy is
Speaker 2: talking about what I know personally, and they're just talking
Speaker 2: the biggest amount of just absolute nonsense and rubbish. But
Speaker 2: and that's what I try to avoid. That's why I
Speaker 2: made a conscious decision to do less analysis on US
Speaker 2: and European politics and to stick to what I know,
Speaker 2: because I see those commentators in America and in Europe
Speaker 2: talk about South Africa and they just completely missing the target.
Speaker 2: And then I think to myself, what if that is
Speaker 2: me when I'm talking about America about a European politics.
Speaker 2: What if that's exactly what I'm doing. Americans are sitting
Speaker 2: there listening to the South African talk about their country
Speaker 2: and they're just like, this guy doesn't.
Speaker 3: Get it at all.
Speaker 2: He's just completely drank the kool aid and the propaganda
Speaker 2: out there. So that's why that's the purpose of my
Speaker 2: commentary is to talk about what I know best and
Speaker 2: what I know personally.
Speaker 3: That makes a lot of sense, Rob. Yeah, Well, I've
Speaker 3: also done some work for the same organization after form.
Speaker 3: Although I'm I'm a freelance consultant, I'm working for a
Speaker 3: couple of other I'm working for a couple of other
Speaker 3: people at the moment, but I can't really talk about
Speaker 3: them right now. And my but my big thing that
Speaker 3: I spend sort of a lot of my free time
Speaker 3: doing is is trying to assist the Cape Independence movement
Speaker 3: in various ways. And there some big moves coming up
Speaker 3: in apergot that should be fun. I mean, of course,
Speaker 3: it's it's not something that has a guaranteed shot it
Speaker 3: you know, it's not guaranteed success. But the way I
Speaker 3: see it is it's necessary because it's the only bit
Speaker 3: of the country that really can be saved from, you know,
Speaker 3: total collapse. Really, I mean if the Cape guys, all
Speaker 3: we've got left is Africana enclaves, critism, and.
Speaker 4: It's like, yeah, it's it's it's not the most ideal
Speaker 4: situation because then you know, you isolated tiny pockets of
Speaker 4: resented minorities and it's an ocean of hostiles.
Speaker 3: It's not it's not my idea of a party.
Speaker 1: We'll talk more about that. Why don't why don't we
Speaker 1: find out how you know, the history? How did your
Speaker 1: families get to South Africa?
Speaker 5: Mm hmm the peak.
Speaker 1: You're gonna have to indicate who you want to start,
Speaker 1: all right, Ernest you start because I know that I
Speaker 1: know you can be a little more brief than rob.
Speaker 5: Let's.
Speaker 2: Yeah, let's go for a well on the question of
Speaker 2: what where my family comes from and now they ended
Speaker 2: up at the southern tip of Africa. There's a lot
Speaker 2: to unpack there, but I'll keep it brief because there's
Speaker 2: a lot to talk about in the broader picture. So yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm the descendant of a mish mash of just West Europeans.
Speaker 2: So my ancestors are Germans, Dutch, French, Huguenots, Belgians and Scots,
Speaker 2: and that's what we know about, and a lot of
Speaker 2: them have very interesting histories. The Dutch the typical people
Speaker 2: coming to South Africa for mostly fortune seekers or for
Speaker 2: a job or for a new start somewhere. French Huguenots,
Speaker 2: of course, are fleeing religious persecutions, so they're not coming
Speaker 2: to South Africa to make money or to create a
Speaker 2: new life, or to escape just the monotony of their existence.
Speaker 2: They're coming to South Africa. They're fleeing for their lives,
Speaker 2: so they're coming to South Africa. And that's actually first,
Speaker 2: my first ancestor chronologically came here in sixteen eighty eight
Speaker 2: and he was a French Huguenot. His name was Paul
Speaker 2: Rue and he came here in sixteen eighty eight. But
Speaker 2: then also my surname van Zel that that ancestor came
Speaker 2: I think a little bit later in sixteen forty sixteen
Speaker 2: ninety four and he was Vilim Fansel. And then yeah,
Speaker 2: in the meantime since then, also a lot of other influences,
Speaker 2: a lot of Germans, a lot of other French Huguenots.
Speaker 2: But yeah, that's the story. The story of my family
Speaker 2: lineage is the story of the Afrikaners. I think most
Speaker 2: of the European ethnicities that form that melded together to
Speaker 2: form the Afrikaners are in my lineage and are in
Speaker 2: the majority of Afrikaners lineage. And it's and that's the thing.
Speaker 2: The big misconception that a lot of people abroad make
Speaker 2: is they think, oh, the English speaking whites and South
Speaker 2: Africa are the descendants of the Brits, and the Afrikaans
Speaker 2: speaking whites are the descendants of the Dutch. That's that's
Speaker 2: not true. The Afrikaners are the descendants are mainly the
Speaker 2: descendants of the Dutch, French and Germans. Those three groups
Speaker 2: we take one of them art it's a major piece
Speaker 2: of the puzzle that you're missing. So those three groups
Speaker 2: are the main ingredients in making the Africana specifically, and
Speaker 2: those are all in my lineage as well. Just a
Speaker 2: funny story to end off with. I mentioned this in
Speaker 2: my I Am seventeen seventy six piece that I wrote recently,
Speaker 2: A Time to do Trenches. My Scottish ancestor was on
Speaker 2: his way to New Zealand and then he kicked the
Speaker 2: captain's dog on the way there, and he got thrown
Speaker 2: off in South Africa and that's h and then he
Speaker 2: I mean, this isn't a time where he doesn't he
Speaker 2: can't just wait until the next morning when the next
Speaker 2: boat arrives, like he's stuck here now, like his fate
Speaker 2: is not tied to the African continent for quite a while.
Speaker 2: And yeah, if that didn't happen, I wouldn't exist, crazy, right, Oh.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean some of the stuff. I mean, there's
Speaker 3: a funny per since there so Paul Rue. I don't
Speaker 3: know what the state of the farm is not. I
Speaker 3: haven't been back to visit it since I've moved back
Speaker 3: to my hometown. But I used to play and go
Speaker 3: to Sunday School with Actually no, he never came to
Speaker 3: Sunday School. I suppose with him because my friend as
Speaker 3: Farmer's neighboring is. But there's a kid called Paul Rue
Speaker 3: who who's a directorcendant of that Paul Roue. So I've
Speaker 3: met one any relatives indirectly, but yeah, sort of. My
Speaker 3: ancestors are also French Huguenots. My Irish surname comes from
Speaker 3: a sort of you know, well, Irish people who went
Speaker 3: to went to serve the colonial own administration in India,
Speaker 3: and so one of my ancestors is born in Pakistan,
Speaker 3: but that one of the family married into Danish and Swedish.
Speaker 3: And then and then on my other side a bunch
Speaker 3: of you know, Scots and English and Irish people, funnily enough,
Speaker 3: no Welsh, but yeah, and then you know, like all
Speaker 3: white side Africans, you know, Adamson I will both share
Speaker 3: a tiny drop of Cooi sound blood because being around
Speaker 3: for that long, you know, the first settlers, for the
Speaker 3: first fifty years, there were no European women to speak
Speaker 3: over really, and so they made free with.
Speaker 2: For a long time, not just for the first year
Speaker 2: or so.
Speaker 3: Yeah, for the first I think it's not. For the
Speaker 3: first fifty there were very few. And then after that
Speaker 3: you've got some you got some French women in there,
Speaker 3: but yeah, that is a fair amount of times. So
Speaker 3: everyone's got like about I think I think the average
Speaker 3: is like, you know, four to six percent will be lated,
Speaker 3: some more, some less, but generally speaking around there and yeah,
Speaker 3: I mean like, but my family a few generations ago,
Speaker 3: they were supported smart as the party were, and for
Speaker 3: like fusion between English and Africans communities, they raised their
Speaker 3: children speaking English so my family is sort of like
Speaker 3: a modeled mixture of English and Africans spilingualism, and yeah,
Speaker 3: tied to Thevinelands.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: No, I think both of us are because of our
Speaker 3: deep connections and sort of family's obsession of genealogy. You know,
Speaker 3: we've got a very deep rooted sense of our history
Speaker 3: in place here, you know, where the skeletons are buried,
Speaker 3: and the ability for you know, the rest of society
Speaker 3: to shock us with our ancestors, you know, crimes is
Speaker 3: somewhat diminished, so.
Speaker 2: You can't really be shamed. You you can't really be
Speaker 2: shamed for your ancestors conduct if you have a very
Speaker 2: deep and intimate knowledge of your ancestors conduct.
Speaker 3: That's true, That's true.
Speaker 2: I mean it's just avoid your Your opponents can fill
Speaker 2: that void with anything they want.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it made me makes me think of what could
Speaker 3: your enthusiasm. Larry David there was a while ago he
Speaker 3: had a he had a thing where he he went
Speaker 3: on one of those who do you think you are
Speaker 3: genealogy programs and you find out the ancestors or like
Speaker 3: you know, like a slave driving certain plantation, and and
Speaker 3: I I didn't think much of that at the time,
Speaker 3: but I've noticed now apparently he's a huge fan of
Speaker 3: the Confederate sort of army, sort of historical societies and stuff.
Speaker 3: So I don't know. I think it's kind of impossible
Speaker 3: to escape one's ancestry, you know, when you realize you
Speaker 3: know where you fit into it, even if you can
Speaker 3: distance yourself more really from certain things, it's like, well,
Speaker 3: this is part of.
Speaker 5: Who you are.
Speaker 3: You're not gonna you're not gonna chuck it for you know,
Speaker 3: for nothing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. So yeah, and
Speaker 1: we get that in the South here too. I've I
Speaker 1: was Arns before we started that. In the South here,
Speaker 1: they're Southerners are very very aware of their families, and
Speaker 1: they are for the most part, not ashamed. Do they
Speaker 1: understand that, you know? I mean, I know my own
Speaker 1: through my dad. At some point we were slaves, and
Speaker 1: at some point we owned slaves. So it's like, all right, well,
Speaker 1: best of both worlds. But I guess the reason I'm here,
Speaker 1: the reason I asked you guys to be here, is
Speaker 1: because South Africa has been in the news a lot
Speaker 1: in the last couple of years, and I think that
Speaker 1: most Americans, what they know about South Africa is comes
Speaker 1: from Hollywood and comes from the newspapers, and these these
Speaker 1: are pure, These are the propaganda arms of you know,
Speaker 1: global Homo now and I want to hear the story.
Speaker 3: I want to know.
Speaker 1: Everybody talked about, Oh, apartheid was so terrible, and you know,
Speaker 1: we talked a little bit before we started recording about
Speaker 1: the history of a little bit about the history and
Speaker 1: how did we get to this point? I mean, how
Speaker 1: did we get to the point where I was watching
Speaker 1: videos last year of white and black act men in
Speaker 1: South Africa standing side by side shooting rifles at rioters
Speaker 1: and looters and people murdering people.
Speaker 2: H this is kind of your question, kind of is
Speaker 2: a slam dunk for rob seeing as is Forte is
Speaker 2: the different dispense political dispensations of South Africa, which is
Speaker 2: literally the answer to the question how did we get here?
Speaker 2: So I think I'll give the floor over to him
Speaker 2: for for introduction there.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it's basically the the country is. It's
Speaker 3: not a real country, it's it's it's a it's a
Speaker 3: resource extraction zone. And I mean the cape has a
Speaker 3: sort of nebulous identity. It's always been like if you
Speaker 3: read sort of historical books about the Cape. So everyone
Speaker 3: has an idea that like there's something here, but we
Speaker 3: can't quite put our finger on it. But definitely South
Speaker 3: Africans have nothing in common. There's there's nothing in common
Speaker 3: except for the sort of power structure that holds us together.
Speaker 3: And there's always been the case, and the country was
Speaker 3: deliberately denied any kind of federal devolution of power from
Speaker 3: the very first, explicitly to contain any any attempts by
Speaker 3: people to break away. I mean, the reason that the
Speaker 3: Union Constitution was instituted in nineteen ten was because the
Speaker 3: trance of all decided didn't want to be part of
Speaker 3: the customs. So they have like this big, big convention
Speaker 3: behind closed doors and say, listen, guys, we're not doing
Speaker 3: this warshit again. You're going to sit down and we're
Speaker 3: not going to have devolution of powers. You're going to
Speaker 3: get with the program. We're going to have somewhere. We're
Speaker 3: going to have a cultural fusion of English and Africana,
Speaker 3: and we're going to protect every one nation that didn't
Speaker 3: even work. And the only point at which you got
Speaker 3: anything approaching white unity was under for food, when you
Speaker 3: got all for the first time the English speaking population
Speaker 3: shifted over to vote for the Nationalist Party. But the
Speaker 3: real thing is that you have a sort of idea
Speaker 3: of the first chunk of just just shy fifty years
Speaker 3: of the country is about trying to build this common
Speaker 3: identity between English and Afrikaans people under the under the
Speaker 3: British Empire. And it starts coming apart in the thirties
Speaker 3: and by nineteen forty eight it's you know, everyone sort
Speaker 3: of decided, no, we don't really want you know, the
Speaker 3: Africans are going to be the bell leader for the
Speaker 3: future and this is going to be an Afrikaans nation.
Speaker 3: And by sixty one we become a republic. You know,
Speaker 3: it's full speed ahead for Africanization of everything and an
Speaker 3: attempt to contain some of the forces that were led
Speaker 3: list because the big driver this is the gold mines.
Speaker 3: This is the reason that Nathan Rostrald got together with
Speaker 3: Bite Roads and Milne to unify the The whole point
Speaker 3: is mineral extraction. The problem also is that all the
Speaker 3: goldfields are far inland. I mean three times the size
Speaker 3: of Germany, remember, way larger than Texas. But you know,
Speaker 3: the mines are so far from the ports, so that
Speaker 3: you have to like unify all these different territories in
Speaker 3: order to give them sort of stable access. So you know,
Speaker 3: Als mentioned the riots, and the reason that those riots
Speaker 3: were so effective and so threatening was because they targeted
Speaker 3: the corridor, the main economic corridor between Johannesburg and Praetoria
Speaker 3: and all those mining hubs and derban.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they were a metaphorical knife over over an artery,
Speaker 2: like a main artery precisely.
Speaker 3: And I mean the thing is, you know, while African,
Speaker 3: do you have in the meantime the black societies form
Speaker 3: a sort of mirror image of what's happening in the
Speaker 3: white societies, where they're starting to for purely pragmatic political
Speaker 3: power reasons, consolidating around a homogeneous black identity under the
Speaker 3: ANC from nineteen twelve. And I mean this is not
Speaker 3: reflected on the ground amongst most black South Africans and
Speaker 3: you know, or even a plurality of them until very recently.
Speaker 3: But I mean you did get some writing about the
Speaker 3: emergence of this sort of deracillated black identity. I mean
Speaker 3: Jordan Gubane, a Zulu political commentator, called them the new Africans.
Speaker 3: And I think you wrote something in nineteen seventy nine
Speaker 3: called a Conflict of minds, and I recommend anyone to
Speaker 3: go read that. I mean, it's it's really a fantastic
Speaker 3: piece of insight. But I won't explain everything you said here,
Speaker 3: but it's the issue is that in order to challenge
Speaker 3: the white Pawer structure, they had to consolidate and form
Speaker 3: like a single block. And the process they build this
Speaker 3: ideology based on you know, economic distribution and race nationalism
Speaker 3: and race consciousness. I mean, the idea is that they
Speaker 3: got from w eb d Boys and Marcus Garvian or whatever.
Speaker 3: It was, like secondhand German race nationalist ideas really and
Speaker 3: then they combine them with bits of bits of Soviet economics.
Speaker 3: The ideology the ANC can really be something up as
Speaker 3: you know, black race consciousness plus Leninism, and the Leninist
Speaker 3: element is the two stage national democratic revolution. So the
Speaker 3: first revolution is the nationalist revolution, whereby you gain control
Speaker 3: the levels of power in society, in the in the economy,
Speaker 3: and the second phase is where you use those to
Speaker 3: transsform society into a socialist economy, except that with the
Speaker 3: race element it's transformed into a black socialist economy. And
Speaker 3: from the nineteen seventies. Already they were looking for inspiration
Speaker 3: from Indonesia with their expulsion of the Dutch and the Chinese,
Speaker 3: and from Zanziboi in their massacre of the of the Arabs.
Speaker 3: And it was even something called Operation j which failed
Speaker 3: in the most farcical way possible. But the original intention
Speaker 3: was to instigate as Zanzibar style genocidal massacre in South Africa.
Speaker 3: They didn't even manage to get the boat with the
Speaker 3: troops out of Somalia because they didn't maintain the engine,
Speaker 3: so that was completely abortive. But I mean, look at
Speaker 3: the nc has Alos been a fairly nasty organization and
Speaker 3: most of their political culture was really consolidated. In the
Speaker 3: nineteen eighties they took this is this military doctrine that
Speaker 3: they took from the Vietnamese called a People's War. They
Speaker 3: were paid to go over there in nineteen seventy nine
Speaker 3: by the Soviet Union and they studied with Vogwark of
Speaker 3: allmans Yupp, who is the you know general who you
Speaker 3: know completed the warrans just to stop you the robber.
Speaker 2: Just a great resource on the People's Wall if you
Speaker 2: on this book by Anthea Jfree called People's War, then
Speaker 2: a new light on the struggle for South Africa. It
Speaker 2: covers the entire concept. It is like a magnum opus
Speaker 2: on that concept.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, and I mean this this sort of explains the
Speaker 3: riots that we had last year. So that was big
Speaker 3: headline news. And I mean like I was contacted by
Speaker 3: I'm certain in seventy six or rivals or something for
Speaker 3: them last year about it as well. So the issue
Speaker 3: is that the the structure of the NCADA took on
Speaker 3: this idea that so everyone, man, women and child are
Speaker 3: all combatants. There's no such thing as being like not
Speaker 3: on a side or not a legitimate target. I mean
Speaker 3: Nelson Mandela had his had his principles. He sort of said, well, no,
Speaker 3: no human targets or just doing sabotage here. But of
Speaker 3: course on his way into jail he said, you know,
Speaker 3: I'm not going to rule out guerrilla warfare and terrorism.
Speaker 3: I mean, you know, if it's necessary, it's and that's
Speaker 3: what the people who followed him later did when they
Speaker 3: finally managed to get some funds and some training, and
Speaker 3: so the nineteen eighties. You see, if you go on
Speaker 3: to if you go on to Wikipedia and you look
Speaker 3: up a crime in South Africa. There's a big fat
Speaker 3: graph over there for the homicides over the over one
Speaker 3: hundred years from nineteen fifteen to twenty fifteen, and there's
Speaker 3: a gentle introdase that followers urbanization and population growth, and
Speaker 3: there's a massive spike from seventeen nineteen to ninety three
Speaker 3: that then starts declining, and that spike is the people's
Speaker 3: Now the official statistics for debts areund about twenty thousand,
Speaker 3: but if you look at the area under that that
Speaker 3: spike in the graph, the numbers are way higher. They're
Speaker 3: way higher, and it's you know, death by sort of torture, mobbing,
Speaker 3: burning down entire townships, just absolutely insane augi of violence.
Speaker 3: And you know, none of this is reported on because
Speaker 3: all of the journalists were around the world very dutifully
Speaker 3: remembered that, well, if we still want us sources to
Speaker 3: talk to us, we can't say anything they don't like.
Speaker 3: So they would they would actively lie in order to
Speaker 3: maintain contact and keep being able to write pieces on
Speaker 3: the ground. And they they freely admitted this to Anthea Jeffrey,
Speaker 3: which is why of her book is such a fantastic resource.
Speaker 3: But I mean, this is the structure means that when
Speaker 3: when when they did the riots last year, the contoy season,
Speaker 3: which the military ring of the a n C, they
Speaker 3: had decided that they were going to back Jacob Zumer
Speaker 3: as the former president against against the criminal charges against
Speaker 3: him for like racketeering, bribery, all kinds of stuff. And
Speaker 3: when he was placed in jail, they shut down about
Speaker 3: half the country's economy. They targeted and it was like
Speaker 3: a reasonably military level operation. When you look at them ms,
Speaker 3: it's like, okay, target the you know, the side as
Speaker 3: the depots, the roads, the rails, reports, shut all that down.
Speaker 3: But what they did is they then sort of rallied
Speaker 3: ordinary people and activists within the party to go and
Speaker 3: glut and raid and target white and Indian owned businesses,
Speaker 3: and they encouraged them with open use of genocidal rhetoric.
Speaker 3: And once they were done with the businesses, they started
Speaker 3: going off the people's suburbs. But the problem is by
Speaker 3: then these people, most people had sort of tooled up
Speaker 3: and hundreds hundreds of black people died trying to do
Speaker 3: massacre the minorities in Durban and in Coburg Johannesburg. You
Speaker 3: actually got you know, large sections of the black population
Speaker 3: who didn't want anything to do with us insane nonsense,
Speaker 3: who formed their own defensive forces, and now they're sort
Speaker 3: of they've evolved into something called Operation to Doula and
Speaker 3: another thing called the Soweto Parliament, who are aiming for
Speaker 3: some sort of non partisan national sort of black nationalist
Speaker 3: ideology that's non communist and non pan African, turned their
Speaker 3: back on the liberation and and sort of gone very
Speaker 3: hard on order stuff. So there have been a lot
Speaker 3: of you know, fall hours from that. It's the best
Speaker 3: way that you can sort of sum up the black
Speaker 3: nationalist ideas over here is that they are the two
Speaker 3: key words you have over here are into and unity,
Speaker 3: and so unity would be in there, but there's no
Speaker 3: need to make two words. So the idea about UBUNTU
Speaker 3: is more that our culture is the most human culture.
Speaker 3: Your participation, no loyalty to this culture, and then and
Speaker 3: then years like we are not approaching any divisiveness is
Speaker 3: considered like a fear fundamentally, So this is very sort
Speaker 3: of consensus based idea going around. And yeah, so it's
Speaker 3: it's a very tricky business because trying trying to oppose
Speaker 3: any of these ideas as a white person, You're immediately
Speaker 3: in the position of going, well, if you appeal to
Speaker 3: your identity, then you are then you're immediately being divisive
Speaker 3: if if they even recognize you as being part of
Speaker 3: the community itself. So it's it doesn't allow a lot
Speaker 3: of avenues for legitimate resistance, and so everything becomes about
Speaker 3: a balance of forces.
Speaker 2: M m hm yes, oh yeah, No, well, Rob paint
Speaker 2: to the very very detailed picture of the different dispensations.
Speaker 2: But I think what I want to add there, well,
Speaker 2: you just ended on it, and that's the balance of forces.
Speaker 2: There's many of these concepts coming out of South Africa
Speaker 2: that if you understand them, they can actually be applied
Speaker 2: in many contexts. So the balance of forces is pretty
Speaker 2: much the philosophical is operandi of the a n C
Speaker 2: when it comes to their practical approach to policy making,
Speaker 2: making moves in their grand chess game is And that's
Speaker 2: another thing. Don't don't make the mistake that these a
Speaker 2: NC oaks are just like idiots or like they don't
Speaker 2: know what they're doing. Like there's a lot of guys
Speaker 2: that's just there for corruption, a lot of them just
Speaker 2: there to get on the gravy train. But a lot
Speaker 2: of them are genuine ideologues, people that have an ideological plan,
Speaker 2: fanatic or about it. But yeah, so the concept of
Speaker 2: the balance of forces is very simple when it comes
Speaker 2: to whether they ever want to impose a policy or
Speaker 2: piece of legislation they chair, they look at the balance
Speaker 2: of forces, and the balance of forces means is the
Speaker 2: the the aggregate of all the different forces that are
Speaker 2: pro and against us in our favor or against us
Speaker 2: in our favor or not in our favor. And the
Speaker 2: only way, the only way you can really influens the
Speaker 2: ruling party, the ANC, is by tipping the balance of
Speaker 2: forces against them, or to put them in a position
Speaker 2: where they realize but the balance of forces is not
Speaker 2: in there, then you can make them do anything you want,
Speaker 2: if you if you can play that power game, because
Speaker 2: that's their game, that's the rule they that's the rule
Speaker 2: they play by. And it's it's that old concept of
Speaker 2: you push, You push the population to a certain point,
Speaker 2: and when they react and push back, you stop, and
Speaker 2: you wait and you wait for them to calm down.
Speaker 3: And then you push again.
Speaker 2: You push a little bit, you just push them a
Speaker 2: meter in one direction and then they start getting upper.
Speaker 2: Do you they start getting angry, they start burning things.
Speaker 2: So you stop, you wait, wait for them to calm down.
Speaker 2: You just do that ad infinitum and pushing them a
Speaker 2: meter by meter, scen to meter, or even millimeter by millimeter.
Speaker 2: In a few years, they end up hundreds of kilometers
Speaker 2: or miles away from the point where they start, and
Speaker 2: they have no idea how they got there. And they
Speaker 2: just snap snap out of it and they're like, how
Speaker 2: do we get here? While you got their one tiny
Speaker 2: little scene to me sad at a time. But that's
Speaker 2: basically their their formula. Now what Rob described when it
Speaker 2: comes to the apartheid era, that was a dispensation of
Speaker 2: a forced separation, but now we are living in a
Speaker 2: dispensation of forced integration. But it's built on the philosophy
Speaker 2: the actually pretty much similar to the globalist philosophy of
Speaker 2: you're trying to solve not the problem of evil, but
Speaker 2: the problem of conflict, a problem as old as humanity itself.
Speaker 2: It's every utopians like Gordian not if we can solve
Speaker 2: this year, you win a prize, but the problem of conflict.
Speaker 2: I'm oversimplifying. But the way their philosophy are they want
Speaker 2: to solve the problem of conflict is they find they
Speaker 2: pin the root of conflict in difference. So in linguistic differences,
Speaker 2: religious differences, cultural differences, every type of difference that there is,
Speaker 2: that's where conflict in their framework arises from. So of
Speaker 2: course the next jump then philosophically for them is if
Speaker 2: we eliminate all these differences or minimize them, we will
Speaker 2: also minimize conflict and we will move towards a more peaceful, coexisting.
Speaker 3: World of people.
Speaker 2: Because conflict is also not good for business, as of
Speaker 2: course Luma told what Rob described there shows you. So
Speaker 2: there's the utopian side of just wanting to destroy conflict
Speaker 2: because if you feel that's the moral right thing to do.
Speaker 2: And then there's just literally the cynical side of people
Speaker 2: that want to live in a world of art conflict.
Speaker 2: Because conflict is not good for business. Instability is not
Speaker 2: good for consumers. Any type of war or infighting between
Speaker 2: groups or civil war or feuds between groups or factions
Speaker 2: is not good for an economy. It's not good for
Speaker 2: the graph go up type of people. So what we
Speaker 2: are living in South Africa is the South African experiment,
Speaker 2: or they literally call it. In the nineties the South
Speaker 2: African experiment. But then they realized people were raising their eyebrows,
Speaker 2: so they started talking about the South African project. Now
Speaker 2: it's a lot more soft on the ear, but in
Speaker 2: essence it is a project of forced, forced integration. Where
Speaker 2: do you try to standardize everything? And they got this
Speaker 2: from the Soviets there an see this idea of standardization.
Speaker 2: We want to live. We want to create a society
Speaker 2: of standardized men. That was what Lenin wanted to do
Speaker 2: as well with the Russian population. So what she then you? You,
Speaker 2: my friend Russell LOMBERTI actually summed it up very well
Speaker 2: just a week ago and I talked to him. He said,
Speaker 2: South Africa is famous for having eleven official languages, but
Speaker 2: it's the biggest farce. We only have one official language
Speaker 2: technically speaking, and that is English, the state mandated language.
Speaker 2: And that's that part of the homogenization standardization project. Everyone. Firstly,
Speaker 2: everyone needs to abandon their cultural roots they and adopt
Speaker 2: a new and their cultural identity and need they need
Speaker 2: to adopt the South African identity. They are South Africans first,
Speaker 2: and then they are Afrikanas and Zulus and vendors and
Speaker 2: Tanungas and cause US and everything in between. But so
Speaker 2: that's the one thing. You abandon your organic age, old
Speaker 2: identities and you take on this new, artificial, state based
Speaker 2: identity where you are a South African whatever that means,
Speaker 2: you live with which it's so empty. You just live
Speaker 2: in the parameters of South Africa. You live within the
Speaker 2: borders and you bry some meat over open fire and
Speaker 2: on again. But then that's the one part. The other
Speaker 2: part is you abandon your language. That's not good for
Speaker 2: efficient system. If you want to run an efficient system,
Speaker 2: everyone needs to be doing business in one language, getting
Speaker 2: education in one language, socializing in one language, doing litigation
Speaker 2: in one language. Courts are running on one language. Every
Speaker 2: single system needs to be optimized with one language. That
Speaker 2: language is English. So what you're seeing is a systemic
Speaker 2: destruction of just every other language in South Africa with
Speaker 2: the with the black languages, they just don't develop them.
Speaker 2: The ANC does everything in their power to make sure
Speaker 2: these languages just die out and that the black population
Speaker 2: anglicizes and takes on English. So that's that's the black
Speaker 2: language is covered. When it comes to Afrikaans, for example,
Speaker 2: it is a more difficult challenge because Afrikaans in the
Speaker 2: past hundred years was developed from a kitchen language to
Speaker 2: a to a language that is an academic language. I
Speaker 2: think it's one of only three languages in the last
Speaker 2: hundred years that was developed from like a low tier
Speaker 2: just casual language to an academic level language. I think
Speaker 2: I can't remember what the other two. So, yeah, Hebrew
Speaker 2: was one of them, and then there's another one. But
Speaker 2: so Afrikaans is a bit more of a difficult ones
Speaker 2: because you've got actually you've got universities that are Afrikaans universities.
Speaker 2: You've got a lot of Afrikaans literature, you've got Afrikaans school.
Speaker 2: So what do you start doing. You start destroying those
Speaker 2: Africa KNT universities by bringing in English. First, you make
Speaker 2: it bilingual, so that you take Afrikaance university that is
Speaker 2: educating people and their mother tongue, and you say, well,
Speaker 2: you're not inclusive enough, so you turn it into a
Speaker 2: bilingual university in the name of inclusiveness. As soon as
Speaker 2: the English Yeah, as soon as the English speaking population
Speaker 2: is in the majority in the university, you say, well,
Speaker 2: now that the English speaking population of the university or
Speaker 2: of the students is the majority, we have no reason
Speaker 2: to keep it bilingual. We will now turn it into
Speaker 2: an English university, but with translation services. So if you
Speaker 2: want to really learn in Afrikaans, you can get a
Speaker 2: translation service. But all the textbooks are in Africa are
Speaker 2: on English, all the classes are in English, all the
Speaker 2: tests on in English. But if you really want to,
Speaker 2: you can put a little earphone in your in your
Speaker 2: ear during class and you can hear the lecture what
Speaker 2: he just said in very poor or very very poor
Speaker 2: audio quality and someone that's not sure what the real
Speaker 2: what the academic word is supposed to translate. So then
Speaker 2: you just kill Afrikaans at the public, at the tertiary
Speaker 2: university level. That's already done. I was at university during
Speaker 2: this process. I saw it happen in front of my eyes,
Speaker 2: the destruction of my mother tongue education at tertiary level.
Speaker 2: I mean, I started first year trying to get to
Speaker 2: trying to do my university degree in Afrikaans. I tried.
Speaker 2: I literally sat and translated all my textbooks into Afrikaans meticulously.
Speaker 2: And then second year old around I realized, now the
Speaker 2: work is triple. I can't do it anymore. So I
Speaker 2: studied in English. So I got my degree in English
Speaker 2: but that's what happens to almost every student. Then, so
Speaker 2: now you've killed Afrikaans education on tertiary level. What they're
Speaker 2: currently doing is they're moving to school level now. So
Speaker 2: now they're trying to destroy Afrikaans in the Afrikaans schools
Speaker 2: where that's still the instruction language on school level. That's
Speaker 2: the next phase. But yeah, that aside, there's always forming
Speaker 2: part of the Grand Standardization project of the ANC forming
Speaker 2: part of this. We are trying to create this efficient
Speaker 2: system of standardized citizens where there's no conflict and where
Speaker 2: everything is just moving optimally and there's a lot of
Speaker 2: funds that that we can either loot or that we
Speaker 2: can use for other means. But yeah, like I said,
Speaker 2: there is a divide. It's not like everyone within the
Speaker 2: ruling party is doing everything for the same reason there
Speaker 2: but there are those that are just there for the corruption.
Speaker 2: But there are genuine fanatic idea logues and there are
Speaker 2: a lot of them are not even in the ruling party.
Speaker 2: They're just in positions of power, but they're still towing
Speaker 2: the line because they it's pretty much the South African
Speaker 2: version of the Cathedral, so they're pretty much just doing
Speaker 2: they know what they need to do. They don't even
Speaker 2: need instruction, and they're all just marching ahead with the standardization, ormoginization,
Speaker 2: forced Integration project. Well what's the excuse?
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, I'm going to have to bring up
Speaker 1: apartheid because if I don't, somebody's going to scream at me.
Speaker 1: Is it that we suffered under this? Now we a
Speaker 1: better question how much leftover of that resentment? Is fuel
Speaker 1: fuels this or is it something else?
Speaker 2: Robber, you can start off the end of aug I
Speaker 2: just had a lot of time.
Speaker 3: I think the best way to I think the best
Speaker 3: way to start is to sort of realize that a
Speaker 3: proctect was the way people think of it is they
Speaker 3: think of that someone came up with this idea that
Speaker 3: you know, we live in this world with white and
Speaker 3: black people that separate them. The reality is that South
Speaker 3: Africa is extremely vast countries. Again, like I said, three
Speaker 3: times a side of Germany, and let's say you take
Speaker 3: one hundred and fifty years ago, You've got maybe three
Speaker 3: or four million people that's the population of It's not
Speaker 3: even the population of the Netherlands, like less than the
Speaker 3: population of Portugal. So you know, extremely though, so everyone
Speaker 3: sort of settled in areas which are culturally homogeneous or
Speaker 3: a lesser extent. I mean the cape was different. But
Speaker 3: that's much longer and more complicated story. So what happens
Speaker 3: is when in the country is unified, you've got all
Speaker 3: these different entities existing in one bubble, and the political
Speaker 3: elite in the political economy is run out of the
Speaker 3: white society with some migrant labor from the blacklack areas.
Speaker 3: So what they're do in order to stabilize is they
Speaker 3: draw little boundaries around the black areas of black people,
Speaker 3: settle can call those homelands. That happened in nineteen thirteen.
Speaker 3: They moved about I think sixties to ninety thousand people
Speaker 3: in order to tidy up the boundaries of these areas.
Speaker 3: And then yeah, and so then that was the system
Speaker 3: that be narrative of like basically a bunch of different
Speaker 3: countries in one area white people much less to one
Speaker 3: unitary state, and then a whole bunch of like tiny,
Speaker 3: weird sort of semi independent states that the living as
Speaker 3: colonial centropies.
Speaker 2: Maybe you just need to add to that. When it
Speaker 2: comes to the modern South African state, you ask, what's
Speaker 2: what's driving a lot of this? You need to understand.
Speaker 2: This is not a system that is designed just to
Speaker 2: target white people or Africana people. It is an anti
Speaker 2: culture system. As Patrick Denin would put it, it is
Speaker 2: a system that is designed to be a culture shred.
Speaker 2: This is what the South African current dispensation is. Its
Speaker 2: mortal enemy is any type of genuine culture or religion,
Speaker 2: or community or tradition. It is designed to destroy it,
Speaker 2: almost like an acid where anything that touches it is
Speaker 2: just eaten away. That's what it does. So what people
Speaker 2: need to understand, this is a nuanced point that it
Speaker 2: gets lost very easily, is that, yes, public enemy Number
Speaker 2: one of the regime is definitely Africana culture, White English culture.
Speaker 2: That's definitely one of its main enemies and targets. But
Speaker 2: it doesn't stop there at all. It is also targeting
Speaker 2: and destroying colored culture and many of the black cultures
Speaker 2: as well as well. South Africa is being ruled by
Speaker 2: urban Black South Africans, urban its and that have nothing
Speaker 2: but contempt for their cultural counterparts. In the rural parts
Speaker 2: of South Africa. They really don't think a lot of
Speaker 2: their their cultural counterparts. They actually look down on them
Speaker 2: as savage and backwards that's what is happening, and you
Speaker 2: need to understand that this is the dynamic that's going on.
Speaker 2: It's not just a system designed to attack white cultures.
Speaker 2: It is a system that attacks cultures period. It is
Speaker 2: there to destroy Afrikana culture, cause our culture, Zulu culture,
Speaker 2: Vendor culture, all of these are its mortal enemies and
Speaker 2: it's targeting all of them with laser like precision, and
Speaker 2: it's mercilessly destroying and wiping them up on a linguistic
Speaker 2: and a cultural level.
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is why Jacob's was such a big shot
Speaker 3: to the system because he reinjected a sort of he
Speaker 3: had closer ties to the chieftaincies.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he wasn't de raestimated, No, he wasn't.
Speaker 3: You know, sort of a traditional polygamous family, proud of
Speaker 3: his ethnic heritage, which was again it seems very divisive
Speaker 3: within the ANC. So yeah, it was a difficult That
Speaker 3: was a difficult thing for everyone, and everyone sort of says, well, ah,
Speaker 3: you know the reason everything thing's going down is because
Speaker 3: Jacob Zumer and then they forget, of course that the
Speaker 3: policies were all set back in the nineteen nineties, so
Speaker 3: it's just sort of like a slow burn that he
Speaker 3: participated in some of. But that's besides the point. I mean,
Speaker 3: the aparthe thing is what we know as a partheid
Speaker 3: with like people think about like segregated beaches and you know,
Speaker 3: drinking fun and stuff. That came a little bit later,
Speaker 3: and it sort of started in a wave of reforms
Speaker 3: that it was from like the nineteen twenties to thirties,
Speaker 3: and it was you know, academics sort of refer to
Speaker 3: this as grand and petty apart. As a grand aparte,
Speaker 3: it is like the different geographical areas, you know, which
Speaker 3: are homelands for black people versus the white metropol and
Speaker 3: it's sort of vast aggricultural hintment. And then petty aparte
Speaker 3: is the segregation that it's imposed on the migrant laborers
Speaker 3: from the black areas into white South Africa. So but
Speaker 3: that migrant labor that is something that was imposed upon
Speaker 3: white areas who tried to resist it. In the nineteen twenties,
Speaker 3: there was a major uprising. They tried to push back
Speaker 3: against the importation of black labor from these from these
Speaker 3: sort of black colonial zones outside of the white metropol
Speaker 3: and yeah, they were gone done by the government for
Speaker 3: doing so. So, I mean one of the big crimes
Speaker 3: that's picked on over here is not just the in segregation,
Speaker 3: it's also you know, the give economic exploitation. But you
Speaker 3: know that's a product of an elite that's been in
Speaker 3: charge of the country since the year dot. I mean,
Speaker 3: big families in charge of this country are Rothschild, Oppenheimer,
Speaker 3: and Rupert Becker. There's a couple of others, but I
Speaker 3: mean the biggest of the big names of you know,
Speaker 3: the Rothschild family funded the Mulner group that unified the
Speaker 3: country by war. The Oppenaheima family were funded by JP
Speaker 3: Morgan in the nineteen twenties to scoop up the mines
Speaker 3: on the round. And you know, these people have been
Speaker 3: pushing for economic and cultural integration for a very long time,
Speaker 3: and they are actually behind the the Oppenoma family actually
Speaker 3: behind the design of the current black economic empowerment laws.
Speaker 3: In two thousand and three, they wrote the legislation for
Speaker 3: US that basically forces companies over certain size and over
Speaker 3: about twenty six percent of their shares to black investors
Speaker 3: or whatever. And then they have quotes for management and
Speaker 3: staff and so on as well. And this applies to
Speaker 3: all the institutions public and private, that you need a
Speaker 3: minimum quote of black people and there's no maximum quota.
Speaker 3: So you can have organizations that completely exclude minorities and
Speaker 3: that's perfectly legal, but you cannot have ones that exclude
Speaker 3: the majority. So the situation over this it's quite dire,
Speaker 3: and OP and i FM divested from all of their
Speaker 3: major industrial assets in twenty twelve after they realize of
Speaker 3: the consequences of their project. But it's sort of like
Speaker 3: a combination of naivety and cynicism. So the naivete is
Speaker 3: the aspect of well, you know, we really want to
Speaker 3: do well by these black people, and the cynicism as well.
Speaker 3: This also allows us to have some modicum of control
Speaker 3: over the black population because the reality is that they
Speaker 3: an't see by entangling themselves, because they become the primary
Speaker 3: benefactor of the Black Economic Parliament policies. Most of these
Speaker 3: share these sort of corporate share shared policies get shared
Speaker 3: out to ruling party members, placements on the board gets it,
Speaker 3: not to their friends and family. So but the consequences
Speaker 3: of this is that now that they're firm not they're
Speaker 3: not firmly embedded in what they used to call white
Speaker 3: monopoly capital. So this this this means that you know,
Speaker 3: the AC is stuck in the stalemate. I mean they're
Speaker 3: heading towards the position where they're they have enough balance
Speaker 3: of forces to declare that they've finished the first phase
Speaker 3: of the national democratic and revolution finally, but you know,
Speaker 3: they're sort of pussy footing around the big decisions because
Speaker 3: you know, investors can still threaten them with a bad
Speaker 3: time because of their entanglement. So there's a you know,
Speaker 3: this sort of combination of fascist fascist economics and and
Speaker 3: sort of this incrementalist policy. It sort of it has
Speaker 3: mixed results, but the big thing that it does is
Speaker 3: is a cripples investment, which is again something the Oppenheimer
Speaker 3: found have always delighted in. I mean they poured money
Speaker 3: into not in the Nationalist Party, but also the ANC
Speaker 3: and the divestment sanctions movement. So what they ended up
Speaker 3: having is all of the foreign companies they divers from
Speaker 3: South Africa because it becomes uncompetitive and economically unviable, and
Speaker 3: then they scoop up all of their assets of fire
Speaker 3: sale prices, and there by the end of the eighties
Speaker 3: they had direct or indirect control of about eighty percent
Speaker 3: of the form formal economy. And I mean these permanent oligarchs.
Speaker 3: I mean, like some of them are Africa who made
Speaker 3: their way up during the nationalist period, like the Rupert family.
Speaker 3: But there's there's like a very very small cluster of
Speaker 3: dynasties that basically have they ruled the country without any
Speaker 3: real check on their power. And I mean one of
Speaker 3: the biggest runs now is a guy called Patrise Mazepe,
Speaker 3: who's the brother in law current president. So yeah, the
Speaker 3: country is is more the wealth is more concentrated than
Speaker 3: you see in Russian or America anywhere else. It's extremely
Speaker 3: obscene and absurd. And every single stage of a pragmatic
Speaker 3: adjustment that they're using in order to hold onto their
Speaker 3: dominance causes more more nasty, stupid cruelty for ordinary people,
Speaker 3: no matter how sort of flung their ideals that they
Speaker 3: articulate these things in.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and an important point on that where you're talking
Speaker 2: about the inequality in South Africa. Since nineteen ninety four,
Speaker 2: inequality in South Africa has grown, but the driving force
Speaker 2: behind it is not inter race inequality. It's intra race
Speaker 2: inequality that's driving the unequality. Inequality in South Africa. The
Speaker 2: creation of a ridiculously wealthy black elite in South Africa
Speaker 2: is really something to behold money where even a diet
Speaker 2: in the wall capitalist will look at that. We'll look
Speaker 2: at that and just think this is not moral. This
Speaker 2: is there's something deeply morally abhorrent about having this much
Speaker 2: money and spending it in this just inhumanly flagrant way
Speaker 2: in a country like South Africa. It's it's absolutely insane.
Speaker 2: It's now and again, like a receipt or a bull
Speaker 2: from a government function leaks or like where they went
Speaker 2: out and had drinks, and it's it is genuinely morally
Speaker 2: abhorrent to see people, I think in dollar terms spend
Speaker 2: like in one evening, like almost hundreds of thousands of dollars.
Speaker 2: It's insane. It's really it breaks your brain.
Speaker 3: The worst the worst part is that when you look
Speaker 3: at they're not building anything with this capital they've got
Speaker 3: their hands on. There's i mean, the grosseric capital formation
Speaker 3: is pretty sort of stagnant in South Africa, so I
Speaker 3: mean it's it's not at least it's not even free
Speaker 3: for but I mean it's not looking good.
Speaker 5: And yeah, I mean.
Speaker 3: Everything's been going downhill for you know, as long as
Speaker 3: anyone can remember now, and I mean it didn't to
Speaker 3: be honest, I think I think it's people blame us
Speaker 3: a lot on the ANC. But if we were to
Speaker 3: be truly fired, actually started under the old regime as well,
Speaker 3: because right until the sanctions hit, we were running every
Speaker 3: year the real real sort of average income of white
Speaker 3: sideflings is computing by about like three to annually, and
Speaker 3: black wages were increasing by fifty per annually. I mean,
Speaker 3: there was an extraordinary boom like economic boom into and
Speaker 3: the amount of sort of redistribution of economic goods was
Speaker 3: actually quite large. The budget for the state for for
Speaker 3: you know, often infrastructure for the black areas in the
Speaker 3: country was in art strip the UN I think five
Speaker 3: times over h and I mean like the amount it
Speaker 3: it's there's a lot of this development going in. There's
Speaker 3: lots of economic growth happening, of course, with the the
Speaker 3: sort of necessary caviaret that the implicit deal was that
Speaker 3: black people had to accept that they were inferior, and
Speaker 3: this is delivered to them by a sort of air
Speaker 3: nas the the although their ideology doesn't really come from Germany,
Speaker 3: it's more from the Dutch sort of pastor and politician
Speaker 3: Abram characters, who's there was something called the Hamitic hypothesis,
Speaker 3: the idea that black people are the sons of ham
Speaker 3: and you know, the course of nowhere all of that.
Speaker 3: But I mean, this, this this large growth that was
Speaker 3: I mean, it wasn't quite as as energetic as you
Speaker 3: saw from the Asian Tigers, but it was pretty pretty good.
Speaker 3: And and then when the sanctions hit in the late
Speaker 3: seventies early eighties, the economy hits a brick wall. And
Speaker 3: now we're at war with the Soviet Union on the border.
Speaker 3: I mean, most people say so and Gola, but the
Speaker 3: reality was that it's like the Russians war with Ukraine.
Speaker 3: All of the troops are being moved around by Russian generals.
Speaker 3: All of the Angola Army, all the troops were moving
Speaker 3: moved around by Russian generals.
Speaker 2: All the equipment was in the mixed as well.
Speaker 3: Humans were in the mix as well. And soth Africa
Speaker 3: was owned against against this lot. And yeah, so that
Speaker 3: was the combination of a hot war on the border
Speaker 3: with a global superpower, and you know, economics, sanctions meant
Speaker 3: that the solution was just I mean, like the security
Speaker 3: budget for the state was like new fifty percent of
Speaker 3: the state budget. It was exceeded fifty percent of state
Speaker 3: budget by eighty six, and the sort of segregation rules
Speaker 3: have become absurd to where like you know, black labors
Speaker 3: were traveling like I think it was like six to
Speaker 3: eight hours daily transport. It was like the average to
Speaker 3: transport distance there to get a bit turned from work,
Speaker 3: and you know, constant terrorism and the inflation rate hit
Speaker 3: hit an absurd point. So we start getting we start
Speaker 3: getting a really sort of runaway inflation in this period
Speaker 3: and it never really quite cool down. I mean we've
Speaker 3: had we've had it's sort of stagnate. Inflation is sort
Speaker 3: of stagnated in the high single digits, and it's been
Speaker 3: sort of like that for as long as anyone can remember.
Speaker 3: Occasionally it jumps about ten percent, but not that often.
Speaker 3: But it's just not good because everyone's savings are worth nothing.
Speaker 3: I mean, it's not like Argentina, no Lebanon or Turkey
Speaker 3: or anything. But that's you know, if these are this
Speaker 3: wasn't like a sort of temporary thing. It's just sort
Speaker 3: of like that's how things are always and have been
Speaker 3: since you know, forty years ago. So yeah, it's that
Speaker 3: the economy has taken a knock. I mean, there's some
Speaker 3: other sort of funny, funny stuff that you'll find in
Speaker 3: economics that I think are under underrated. And the big
Speaker 3: one for me is actually the deregulation of trucking in
Speaker 3: nineteen seventy seven. And people thinking, Okay, well, this is
Speaker 3: like this marginal, ridiculous issue. The reality is that when
Speaker 3: you deregulate the trucking industry, so the relationship between the
Speaker 3: way to the trucks and the amount damage that they
Speaker 3: do to the to the roads is actually exponential increases
Speaker 3: to the power of four. So you know, like your
Speaker 3: normal family sedan does so little damage you don't even
Speaker 3: need to measure it, but the second you have like
Speaker 3: multi ton trucks, it's very severe. So they deregulated this.
Speaker 3: Two things happen when you do this. First of all,
Speaker 3: your damage on the roads gets enormous, and all of
Speaker 3: those costs are externalized, right, so it becomes much cheaper
Speaker 3: to run. And we've got the most extensive road network,
Speaker 3: one of the most extensive road networks of any country,
Speaker 3: you know, we really really highly paved country. And the
Speaker 3: freight charges that people are risking when they put their
Speaker 3: goods on the train. Well, you know you don't have
Speaker 3: to do that sticking on a modular transport unit traveled
Speaker 3: on the road. So then your revenue for the rail
Speaker 3: goes down, on your ability to keep preparing the resk
Speaker 3: go down. So in the past fifty years we've seen
Speaker 3: a decline in the rails and a decline in road
Speaker 3: quality and starting to reach up to an absolutely insane
Speaker 3: degree because the rails are not profitable, they're not being run.
Speaker 3: And they find all of the vast majority of the
Speaker 3: qualified civil urbans that were running everything that we had
Speaker 3: at the end of the nineties, I mean so many
Speaker 3: of them actually offered to stay on free of charge
Speaker 3: because they were so desperate to keep the country from
Speaker 3: falling into the condition that now is. But you know
Speaker 3: they weren't running to hear it's like, well bye, by Whitey,
Speaker 3: we've heard enough from you, and I mean the consequences
Speaker 3: of things that everyone has to bear. But the reforms
Speaker 3: in nineteen seventy seven they went beyond that. I mean
Speaker 3: they decided to try to peace the international market by
Speaker 3: embargoing Rhodesia, which meant that their war effort against the
Speaker 3: against ANOPF last two more years only, so I mean,
Speaker 3: like all of the reforms under forced that you know,
Speaker 3: attempts to appease the greater liberal Wesstern world, you know
Speaker 3: by sort of slightly opening up the labor markets because
Speaker 3: they ended and they actually sort of gradually dismantled the
Speaker 3: color bar from that point on, and by the mid
Speaker 3: of the eighties, they were no longer enforcing segregated living areas,
Speaker 3: so you know, if you buy a you could rent
Speaker 3: houses under proxy and sort of set up anywhere in
Speaker 3: any town. So you see, like people, you know, people
Speaker 3: are no longer hemmed in by where they're where they're
Speaker 3: working from. It's just everything starts going. A party started
Speaker 3: being dismantled in seventy seven. The idea that they were
Speaker 3: aiming for something called consociationalism, which is a plan from
Speaker 3: a Dutch guy called Ardent Laypath, and the idea is
Speaker 3: that basically you give every ethnic group some kind of
Speaker 3: veto on what happens at national politics. And it didn't
Speaker 3: work out. So I mean, they tried stuff like to
Speaker 3: we had like tricameral parliam in the nineteen eighties, so
Speaker 3: that you had, you know, you have these two different
Speaker 3: tiers of the white parliam and you were a third
Speaker 3: tier for various for people of various races to participate in.
Speaker 3: And they tried to set all set all the bunches
Speaker 3: stones up for independent national government, but they didn't really
Speaker 3: trial that hard. They didn't give them contiguous territories. They're
Speaker 3: too scared of pissing off their voting base. I mean,
Speaker 3: it's just like everyone realized, like fifty years too late,
Speaker 3: that they maybe should have been a bit more pragmatic
Speaker 3: with how they divided the country up. And you know,
Speaker 3: by the time, by the time negotiating settlement with the
Speaker 3: A and C, you're on the back foot. You've got
Speaker 3: no money in the kitty, and nobody believes in the
Speaker 3: system anymore, because I mean it was it was just inevitable.
Speaker 3: I mean, nobody sort of took any of the problem seriously.
Speaker 3: And the fixes that people are looking at now I'm
Speaker 3: just looking and going, you know, this is all too little,
Speaker 3: too late. I mean, all of the major reformers that
Speaker 3: the Western powers of funding, now you know you've got
Speaker 3: I wrote a little sit of a sardonical blog person
Speaker 3: called the World Economic Forum Party. They're talking about like
Speaker 3: the leader of this new party that's been run a
Speaker 3: former Democratic alliance, the Liberal Opposition Party. A former candidate
Speaker 3: from there called the Demo Mazibuko who went and studied
Speaker 3: at Harvard, got picked up by well, the Economic Forum
Speaker 3: and not like that's recruiting inside of it. So between
Speaker 3: her and then people who have associations with like the
Speaker 3: Open Side Foundation and stuff, they want to put together
Speaker 3: a new political party, and there's another group that wants
Speaker 3: to put together a similar political party. And all of
Speaker 3: these like nunimal parties that are heading towards the elections
Speaker 3: of twenty twenty four are sort of varying shades of
Speaker 3: status quo, but like maybe a tiny bit more border
Speaker 3: security or maybe a tiny bit sort of more market liberalism,
Speaker 3: but fundamentally racial discrimination, big good time, you know, radical
Speaker 3: libertine progressivism, big excellent good time. You know, it's you know,
Speaker 3: none of them are really interested in asking serious questions
Speaker 3: about what's role at the country or you know, where
Speaker 3: it's headed. And everyone's basically accepted what the NS preached
Speaker 3: in the nineties as states quote. And so the question
Speaker 3: is between you know, do give back this sort of
Speaker 3: like you know, silly meaning marked compromise or do you
Speaker 3: back back something real, and the people who are asking
Speaker 3: for something real is really sort of done to the
Speaker 3: economic Koreeum fighters who want a black nationalist totalitarian society
Speaker 3: in which all minorities are completely excluded from everything or
Speaker 3: pushed into the ocean and the economies run on communist principles.
Speaker 3: Or you have the independence movements, and there's only really,
Speaker 3: sort of the way I see it, there's three of them.
Speaker 3: There's a Enclave separatism, there's Cape separatism, which is what
Speaker 3: I'm involved in, because the Cape, while being sort of
Speaker 3: ethnically non homogeneous, is sort of like a creole gradient culture,
Speaker 3: so there's none of it, so it's not quite as
Speaker 3: contentious as it could be. And then There'szoo independence, which
Speaker 3: unfortunately is not organized as nobody really doing much important,
Speaker 3: but a lot of people are sympathetic, so they just
Speaker 3: need to get organized. And these are the only real
Speaker 3: sort of big questions you can big answers to the
Speaker 3: question you know where South Africa going is? Do you
Speaker 3: muddle along until nothing functions anymore and there's nothing worth saving,
Speaker 3: or do you try to and press the button and
Speaker 3: get like a real solution that may be painful and unpopular,
Speaker 3: but it gives you something worth saving. And the thing
Speaker 3: is we keep denying the second option everywhere, every every
Speaker 3: single stage where we had a reform opportunity, we've gone
Speaker 3: like nah, fam, I'm just going to hang about and
Speaker 3: keep trying to make this ridiculous nonsense work. And I mean,
Speaker 3: there were two major opportunities in the previous two dispensations.
Speaker 3: During the initial Union dispensation, we could have stuck what
Speaker 3: it was called the Cape franchise. That's what kind of
Speaker 3: what Rhodisa did is you have a non racial franchise
Speaker 3: with a property qualification, so only a minority of people vote.
Speaker 3: But if but regardless of race, you can enter this
Speaker 3: class and become a full citizen participany political process. That's
Speaker 3: what the CAPE had until nineteen thirty six, if I
Speaker 3: remember correctly. But instead, what we did is we wanted
Speaker 3: to dilute the vote in order to get more Afrikaans
Speaker 3: people voting. So when the Nationalist Party went its first
Speaker 3: election nineteen twenty four, and so what they did is
Speaker 3: they gave all white people, men, women, children, men and
Speaker 3: women sorry the vote everyone about eighteen the more qualified franchise.
Speaker 3: And that meant that now the majority of voters are
Speaker 3: Afrikaans and the road to Africana Nationalism was said, Okay,
Speaker 3: so now you're going to do you know, you're going
Speaker 3: to do a unit. You're going to have like a
Speaker 3: monoculture likel to a sort of model. Interesting. But then
Speaker 3: what they do is they failed to give the black
Speaker 3: people enough sort of territory that they can autonomously govern themselves.
Speaker 3: It's like if you've looked anyone's ever looked at a
Speaker 3: map at the bunt tons in South Africa, It's like,
Speaker 3: you know, all these little peppercorn dots everywhere, but put
Speaker 3: it one. I was breaking into how many, like six
Speaker 3: pieces or something, And so I mean, like even the
Speaker 3: ones that were relatively functional that we're confronted with extremely
Speaker 3: ridiculous territorial situations, and you know, they didn't want to
Speaker 3: bite the bullet. The government didn't want to bite the
Speaker 3: bullet and threaten.
Speaker 2: The Just just proof that I live in South Africa.
Speaker 2: The runing blackouts just hit me this side. But I've
Speaker 2: got my my internet's fine and my laptop is charged,
Speaker 2: so we can continue the conversation. Just giving you some
Speaker 2: context that I do live in the third world. I'm
Speaker 2: not a Charlattan I'm not a hoaxer. Wow, but light
Speaker 2: on just one second, but Rob can continue. Yeah, Yeah, I.
Speaker 3: Just want to say, like this continual refusal to choose
Speaker 3: meaningful options that have that have a sort of consistency
Speaker 3: in terms of how they present themselves to the public
Speaker 3: is I mean, partially it's a result of the economic
Speaker 3: and permanent economic interests and parlim as a result of
Speaker 3: I think a lack of willingness to try radical solutions.
Speaker 3: So you have the NC that has these erradical ideas,
Speaker 3: but then the balance of forces isn't in their favor,
Speaker 3: so they come in in the nineties and they don't
Speaker 3: get to they don't get to fulfill any of the
Speaker 3: radical ideas that they really wanted to. They just hand
Speaker 3: out some welfare and and then a few ten years
Speaker 3: later they get the Black Economic Department program and it's
Speaker 3: all sort of like this muddling nonsense. And what they
Speaker 3: do in the meantime is they get the solution and
Speaker 3: they steal everything that isn't nailed down, and everything goes
Speaker 3: goes to Helen a handcart. And now we're presented in
Speaker 3: this new period heading into twenty twenty four, were Heit
Speaker 3: we're handled at a new option, a new set of options, right,
Speaker 3: is we can really think about Okay, clearly everyone agrees
Speaker 3: that whatever we're doing though it's not working. But the
Speaker 3: willingness of people to alternative alternative seems to be basically tero.
Speaker 3: If you look at the liberal the liberal opposition, the
Speaker 3: way that they're presenting we have what we believe in
Speaker 3: is how did they put constitutionalism and the rule of law?
Speaker 3: I mean, like, what does that even mean? Because I mean, okay,
Speaker 3: so if they want, if they want to say in
Speaker 3: law and order, I'd be like, oh, okay, I see,
Speaker 3: I see where you're going. You want crime gone, you
Speaker 3: want you know, peace and quiet. But it's not That's
Speaker 3: not what they're really fighting for because they know that
Speaker 3: they can't win that fight. They can't really depress the
Speaker 3: The country's overrun with violent crime. I mean, the mining
Speaker 3: industry has been taken over by informal mining gang to
Speaker 3: you know, brutally rape people in broad daylight. It's crazy nonsense.
Speaker 3: And they're looking at this and they're saying, well, we
Speaker 3: can make attractive to investors, pay off our debt, and
Speaker 3: then get some functioning public services, and then within fifty
Speaker 3: years maybe we can turn this thing around. And my
Speaker 3: response to that is, well, everyone knows that you're a
Speaker 3: minority party, do you really think you can stay in
Speaker 3: power for fifty years? Like are you where do you
Speaker 3: guys fall out? It's give it up, We'll take what
Speaker 3: you you know, take what you can get away with realistically,
Speaker 3: And and for me, that's the cape. I mean the
Speaker 3: cape even now. I mean it's like it's not a
Speaker 3: guarantee thing that this is actually a viral, viable political
Speaker 3: enterity in the future. It's like, we have a chance.
Speaker 3: That's so we have, we have a chance.
Speaker 2: But just for some production value for your show, you
Speaker 2: got some proof on camera of the state of South Africa.
Speaker 2: Literally while we're talking, are the ruling black arts? Hit
Speaker 2: my side? But John, I just wanted to give a
Speaker 2: little bit of a foreboding thing. If you have any
Speaker 2: European listener as you better be preparing for this well.
Speaker 1: As before we started, you you had mentioned to me
Speaker 1: you said we were talking about race, and you said,
Speaker 1: let's talk about culture, and you said, like the culture
Speaker 1: of an africannor and the culture of a white American
Speaker 1: or any American really is, or you specifically said a
Speaker 1: white American would be completely different, Like we.
Speaker 2: Know there's a big difference, and people don't get it.
Speaker 2: The best way to answer is actually a question that
Speaker 2: me and Rob get off and is like just when when?
Speaker 2: For example, Rob is and I'll spend time in detail
Speaker 2: etching the situation in South Africa, painting the picture, and
Speaker 2: then a lot of people abroad listen to that story
Speaker 2: and they're like, but why are you still there? Why
Speaker 2: don't you just leave? Why don't you just immigrate? And
Speaker 2: in answering that question, you'll realize what's driving us and
Speaker 2: many people here. The fact is, if I were to
Speaker 2: to immigrate to America within one or two generations, my
Speaker 2: my grandchildren or my children even will not be Afrikaners.
Speaker 2: They will be speaking English. They will be Americans, and
Speaker 2: they will probably not even know their history.
Speaker 5: Well.
Speaker 2: They will not know about the Buo Wall, they will
Speaker 2: not know about the Great Trek, they will not know
Speaker 2: about all those stories that I told you at the
Speaker 2: beginning of the stream, and they will they will their
Speaker 2: their tie with their cultural heritage will be severed. And
Speaker 2: that's the thing a lot of and this is a
Speaker 2: very cynical approach, but a lot of people use the
Speaker 2: situation of the Afrikaners that we find ourselves in, especially
Speaker 2: a lot of people of the race nationalist bend, they
Speaker 2: just see us as an opportunity to bolster their numbers
Speaker 2: in their own country and that they pretty much are
Speaker 2: hoping for catastrophe in South Africa so that we all
Speaker 2: flee as refugees to their countries so we can bolster
Speaker 2: their numbers. But they don't give a They don't give
Speaker 2: a shit about Afrikaanas or our culture because the reality is,
Speaker 2: if that were to happen, Africana culture is not made
Speaker 2: to be a diasporic culture. We don't have the cultural armor,
Speaker 2: we don't have the cultural tools to be able to
Speaker 2: survive outside of Africa. It just doesn't happen. I mean,
Speaker 2: you will assimilate. Africanas particularly have an inclination to assimilate
Speaker 2: and have shown a willingness and an eagerness to assimilate
Speaker 2: in many of the countries, and it makes sense. It's
Speaker 2: the proper thing to do when you immigrate to a country,
Speaker 2: you assimilate to the host country. That is what the
Speaker 2: proper thing. That's what I expect of someone that lives
Speaker 2: in my community, and that's what I would do if
Speaker 2: I were to move to another community, that's what you
Speaker 2: should do. But that means that if there is no
Speaker 2: future for Africanas in South Africa, there is no future
Speaker 2: at all for the culture. And that's the thing. It's
Speaker 2: when you look at South Africa just through a racial lens,
Speaker 2: you're not going to understand that side of it. You're
Speaker 2: just going to see a a struggle between a white
Speaker 2: minority and a black majority, and you're you're going to
Speaker 2: have no idea why the white minority is still sticking around.
Speaker 2: Why don't they just leave? Why don't they just leave
Speaker 2: to and go live in a white majority country or
Speaker 2: in a First World country, or in a Western country
Speaker 2: or whatever, any place better than South Africa?
Speaker 5: Right?
Speaker 2: But we stick around? I mean, shit, did I've got
Speaker 2: the means to immigrate and I'm not doing it and
Speaker 2: I'm not planning to ever. And that's the thing. And
Speaker 2: I think that's where that's where your big lesson when
Speaker 2: it comes to South Africa comes in, is the fact
Speaker 2: that when it comes to digging in somewhere and fighting
Speaker 2: for something that's important to you and something that's meaningful
Speaker 2: to you, there is no more meaningful in great life
Speaker 2: than that to be fighting for something genuine. I mean,
Speaker 2: a lot of people talk about like these fantasies of
Speaker 2: like living in a post apocalyptic world and like fighting
Speaker 2: for survival. I mean, should do a lot of those
Speaker 2: elements you're going to find in South Africa. I work
Speaker 2: for an organization that's fighting for cultural survival every day
Speaker 2: and I love it and it gives me meaning in
Speaker 2: my life. And there's never been a morning where I
Speaker 2: didn't want to go to work. And that's the that's
Speaker 2: the thing. I'm fighting for something meaningful. And that's what's
Speaker 2: interesting is my colleague Adam's Roots, was in America recently
Speaker 2: and he was talking to a lot of Americans and
Speaker 2: he just came back and he told me a lot
Speaker 2: of them are a lot more pessimistic about the future
Speaker 2: than us. And I'm like, well, there's your insight. Let
Speaker 2: that stew a little bit at the back of your mind.
Speaker 2: Think about the fact that the Americans are more black
Speaker 2: palled about the future than the South Africans or the Afrikaners.
Speaker 2: I mean, yoh man, but there's the lesson. That's what
Speaker 2: you did. Then you, as an American need to ask
Speaker 2: the question, what can I learn from the Africanas or
Speaker 2: from South Africa that can make me as optimistic about
Speaker 2: the future as these oaks living there at the southern
Speaker 2: tip of Africa and a dysfunctional, dedeveloping country, in a
Speaker 2: shithole country, How can I get the same type of
Speaker 2: meaning and optimism in my life? And that's the I
Speaker 2: touched on this in my piece for IM seventeen seventy six,
Speaker 2: But it's it's a lot more than that. And the
Speaker 2: big the big thing that I can can tell you
Speaker 2: is the fact that you firstly need to start getting
Speaker 2: active in your community around you. And I think that's
Speaker 2: where a lot of the satisfaction is coming to for Africanas.
Speaker 2: When you're living in difficult times, all these opportunities start
Speaker 2: presenting themselves out of necessity. People start doing neighborhood watches
Speaker 2: out of necessity, people start getting involved in community based
Speaker 2: organizations out of necessity. It's not just a hobby. Unfortunately,
Speaker 2: in a lot of First world countries where self Africanization
Speaker 2: is a real reality, you're not going to start seeing
Speaker 2: people do what the Afrikaners are doing until things get
Speaker 2: a lot worse, until they have to start doing things
Speaker 2: out of necessity. Your neighborhood watch can't just be your hobby.
Speaker 2: It needs to be something that you're doing because you
Speaker 2: need to. That's when it comes a real meaningful thing.
Speaker 2: It's not just people driving around having beers and shooting
Speaker 2: guns in the air. Then it's you're actually protecting something
Speaker 2: your love and you're doing something that you know is
Speaker 2: bigger than your Sti're participating in something bigger than yourself.
Speaker 2: And that's the white Paul that I want people to
Speaker 2: take from South Africas. Don't I see a lot of
Speaker 2: especially young people like Zoomers in the First World in
Speaker 2: America and Europe looking around and thinking where all these
Speaker 2: great heroes? The history is full of all these great
Speaker 2: men and great heroes and people that I admire. But
Speaker 2: when I look around, I don't see any people like that. Well,
Speaker 2: let me give you the white Paul from living in
Speaker 2: a de developing country like South Africa. When things start
Speaker 2: getting really rough, when you know that adage of good
Speaker 2: times and bad times and all that dynamic works in
Speaker 2: good times, there's no heroes in good times, there's no
Speaker 2: great men around you. Everything is just you're going to
Speaker 2: be struggling to find great men around you. But when
Speaker 2: hard times hit, they're going to be a dime does
Speaker 2: and they're going to be around you everywhere, and they're
Speaker 2: going to be emerging organically out of the communities around you.
Speaker 2: None of the great leaders that I've encountered in South Africa,
Speaker 2: in my community and from other communities were educated in
Speaker 2: hard to be great men or leaders. They were made
Speaker 2: great leaders and great men through the difficult circumstances. So
Speaker 2: that would be the silver lining as you enter maybe
Speaker 2: hard times, if you can't change the trajectory of your country,
Speaker 2: at least you will start seeing times of great men
Speaker 2: and great leaders once again, and you will have great
Speaker 2: stories and you will have ample opportunity to live a
Speaker 2: great life. And that's one of the things I said
Speaker 2: in that peace of mind, where the benefit of living
Speaker 2: in good times is that you have ample opportunity to
Speaker 2: live a comfortable life. But the benefit of living in
Speaker 2: hard times and bad times is that you have ample
Speaker 2: opportunity to live a great, meaningful life. That's what I
Speaker 2: want people to take from it is that. But you
Speaker 2: also need to start working now. Prevention is a lot
Speaker 2: better than cure. I mean, who would ever forego the
Speaker 2: opportunity to look into the future for free and as
Speaker 2: my colleague in the Solidata date Bevejungo movement flipbase is
Speaker 2: when he talks about South Africa, he says, in some
Speaker 2: provinces in South Africa, the future has already happened. For example,
Speaker 2: the province where I live, Haating, the future has already happened.
Speaker 2: The province where Rob is living, the Western Cape, the
Speaker 2: future is yet to happen. But I would like to
Speaker 2: use that. I would like to expand that concept on
Speaker 2: a global level, where in South Africa the future has
Speaker 2: already happened, and in America and in Europe the futures
Speaker 2: yet to arrive. So why would you if you were
Speaker 2: able to see the tsunami or the shockwave coming, why
Speaker 2: would you already then start building damn walls and to
Speaker 2: start building defenses and start digging in. If you could
Speaker 2: have that foresight, I think that would be my call
Speaker 2: to action to people on the outside looking into South
Speaker 2: Africa's you better start taking notes now. And it's always
Speaker 2: better to be prepared then to let the ship hit
Speaker 2: the fan and then you have to scramble for solutions.
Speaker 2: That's the situation that Africanas were in at the end
Speaker 2: of a parthate. I mean, this is what we were talking
Speaker 2: about off air, going back to a previous theme, but
Speaker 2: it does, it does come back. It circles back to
Speaker 2: what I'm talking about now. During a part that Africanas
Speaker 2: were just dependent on, the state became became just animal
Speaker 2: state statist animals where you if you need a job,
Speaker 2: you work for the state. The state looks after we
Speaker 2: gave up all our responsibilities to the state. The state
Speaker 2: preserves your culture for you. The state keeps you safe
Speaker 2: through security, The state propagates you and protects your language.
Speaker 2: And then suddenly one day that state changed hands and
Speaker 2: then the state wasn't in control of Africanas anymore. And
Speaker 2: then suddenly we had to learn everything from scratch. Like
Speaker 2: a muscle that hadn't been used for years, it atrified.
Speaker 2: So basically you just ended up having to start building
Speaker 2: again from scratch. And that's the other thing that I
Speaker 2: think another warning from South Africa is don't be tempted
Speaker 2: by the false song. If we were just in charge
Speaker 2: of the state and of the government, then things would
Speaker 2: be or would be fine. No, no, no, no, you
Speaker 2: have to start thinking outside of that. You have to
Speaker 2: start thinking about a different alternative. You can't just think
Speaker 2: about the next election. You have to start thinking about
Speaker 2: the next generation, about planting trees for under which you
Speaker 2: will never be never be able to sit. You can't
Speaker 2: just think about if we just win the next election
Speaker 2: and everything will be different, everything will be fine. And
Speaker 2: trust me, it won't. It won't change a lot. Actually,
Speaker 2: but I see a lot of Americans and Europeans waking
Speaker 2: up to that reality. You're going to have to start
Speaker 2: being the solution yourself. Don't wait for a night or
Speaker 2: a hero on a white horse to appear on the horizon.
Speaker 2: That horse isn't coming. You're going to have to start
Speaker 2: doing that yourself. You're going to have to be the
Speaker 2: hero in your own capacity. And that's I can speak
Speaker 2: from experience of living in hard times in the future.
Speaker 2: I'm speaking to you through a time portal from the futures.
Speaker 2: Like in hard times, you get the opportunity to be
Speaker 2: that hero on the white horse, you don't. You don't
Speaker 2: wait for for that person, because if you're going to
Speaker 2: die waiting, so you better start doing it now. You
Speaker 2: better start in the worst thing. I think one of
Speaker 2: the biggest people always talk about, like reshuffling chairs on
Speaker 2: the Titanic, whatever that metaphor is. But I think there's
Speaker 2: a bigger lesson from the Titanic and the big the
Speaker 2: big mistake. Big lesson you need to learn from the
Speaker 2: story of the Titanic is that thousands of people died
Speaker 2: because everyone trusted that everything was going to be okay
Speaker 2: until the last second. Everyone until the last minute believed
Speaker 2: the ship wasn't going to sink, and then the shit
Speaker 2: hit the fan, and then in the last moments people
Speaker 2: started realizing the ship was going to sink, and then
Speaker 2: it was too late. You need to start realizing that
Speaker 2: the system around you is not working and it is
Speaker 2: grinding to a halt, and there's black smoke coming out
Speaker 2: of the pipe of this of this machine, and you
Speaker 2: better start building some life rafts now they're going They
Speaker 2: don't have to be perfect. Perfect is the enemy of
Speaker 2: the of good. Build adequate life raft net pragmatism, be
Speaker 2: your be your guide when it comes to this, leave
Speaker 2: the leave the utopian bullshit behind. Like I'm actually currently
Speaker 2: working on a piece I'm going to title it Africa
Speaker 2: No No Continent for the utopian ideas, where it's when
Speaker 2: you're living in a first world country like the United States,
Speaker 2: you have the luxury of having endless debates about theory
Speaker 2: of like, what's that real liberalism? No, that was that
Speaker 2: real communism? Is that real fascism? Whatever? You have that luxury.
Speaker 2: Me and Robin South Africa, we don't have that luxury
Speaker 2: of just endlessly debating theory. You we're kind of forced
Speaker 2: to work in the the laboratory of pragmatism. You kind
Speaker 2: of forced to work on real world solutions that work.
Speaker 2: When the tire hits the road. You can tell me,
Speaker 2: you can give me a million sources that prove that
Speaker 2: this solution should work. It works on paper, and therefore
Speaker 2: it should work in reality. But if we've tried it
Speaker 2: ten fifteen times and failed in reality every time, we're
Speaker 2: going to have to jettison that idea and try something new.
Speaker 2: So I think, yeah, that's probably where I want to
Speaker 2: end off. Is again just those the main lessons that
Speaker 2: you should learn is the one thing is definitely you
Speaker 2: need to start asking the right questions. I told this
Speaker 2: to Alex Kashuda and me and Rob also were on
Speaker 2: her show. The big problem with many people on the
Speaker 2: right when it comes to South Africa is they're looking
Speaker 2: at South Africa to learn the lessons that they want
Speaker 2: to learn, not the lessons that they need to learn.
Speaker 2: And you're going to have to learn the lessons that
Speaker 2: you need to learn, not the lessons that you want
Speaker 2: to learn. I think that's that's where I'm going to
Speaker 2: end it. That's something to keep at the back of
Speaker 2: your mind to think about.
Speaker 5: Rob.
Speaker 3: Do you have anything to say before we close it out? Yeah? Well,
Speaker 3: I mean I'm not going to these high for ambitious
Speaker 3: IDEs andism because it's just it doesn't suit my character.
Speaker 3: But I'll put it this way. It's sort of you're
Speaker 3: going to look around here and realize there's no one
Speaker 3: who's going to come to save you, and maybe you
Speaker 3: can you can sort of content yourself for a little
Speaker 3: while that. Yeah, well, the collapse is coming maybe ten, fifteen,
Speaker 3: twenty fifty years alown the road. Things are fine for now,
Speaker 3: but you know, I think things are looking pretty dire,
Speaker 3: and I think people need to start moving. And if
Speaker 3: you don't see anyone around who you can hit, you know,
Speaker 3: your trailer too, you can ride on their coattails. Then
Speaker 3: you're going to have to beat the path of yourself
Speaker 3: and it's going to suck and you're not going to
Speaker 3: be very good at it, and you're probably going to fail,
Speaker 3: and you're probably going to sappoint a lot of people.
Speaker 3: But you know, if there's no one else, there's no
Speaker 3: one else, So you've got to do it. I'm not
Speaker 3: the guy who's going to trash the idea of getting
Speaker 3: going into politics, because the one thing about the worst
Speaker 3: is you still do have a political system where we
Speaker 3: don't have a state. We're a minority that doesn't have
Speaker 3: real representation for the most part, and you know, we've
Speaker 3: got to accept that and work with it. You know,
Speaker 3: our times as you know, people with a state with
Speaker 3: a future sort of it's long over and now we're
Speaker 3: sort of, you know, thinking like moles burrowing into the hills,
Speaker 3: and you don't want to end up in that situation.
Speaker 3: And so you've got a little window of time. It
Speaker 3: doesn't feel like a little window, but it is a
Speaker 3: little window, and you know, use it if you can.
Speaker 3: I think whatever tools are available, those are the ones
Speaker 3: that should that should be used. And I think people
Speaker 3: should act with conviction because a lot of the time
Speaker 3: people sat and are satisfied with us. I think the
Speaker 3: big thing that lives in the West I think there
Speaker 3: are two things. When people get sucked into the narcissistic idea,
Speaker 3: if they just want people to see how their perspective
Speaker 3: and then they're happy sort of like see everything screwed,
Speaker 3: you know, and they'll blame it on Like it doesn't
Speaker 3: matter what they're blaming on, whether it's you Jews or
Speaker 3: oligarchs or you know, foreigners that left. How do you
Speaker 3: want to frame the causes and what have you the situation?
Speaker 3: How do you defern people just want them to just
Speaker 3: want to affirm their picture of things and then move on.
Speaker 3: I mean a good example of that for me, you
Speaker 3: would be the Dutch Party Foreign for Democracy, who, yeah,
Speaker 3: their leaders a very ineffective historyonic narcissist who despite sounding
Speaker 3: very based on television, doesn't really do much to further
Speaker 3: the cause and has actually been mostly the cause of
Speaker 3: the right in the Netherlands sort of collapsing on its
Speaker 3: own under its own way, and it happens a lot.
Speaker 3: The other thing is that people get satisfied with small victories.
Speaker 3: You'll win an election and then you just sort of
Speaker 3: sit there say haha, we're on top. Now it looks okay.
Speaker 3: Donald Trump, he gets in charge, how much did he
Speaker 3: really do to clear up, to drain the swamp and
Speaker 3: clear up the people in charge? Well not that much.
Speaker 3: As it turns out. Boris Johnson wins the biggest lead
Speaker 3: that the Conservatives have since, you know, for a bloody
Speaker 3: long time. What does he do with that lead? He
Speaker 3: does nothing. You know, we're now look at Georgia Maloney
Speaker 3: in Italy. Everyone's getting all excited and dewey eyed and
Speaker 3: you know, firm in the trousers. But you know it
Speaker 3: remains to be seen if she's going to do anything.
Speaker 3: And I think those things are important. You know, it's
Speaker 3: this is politics. Isn't a stage show. I mean it
Speaker 3: does involve a little bit of theatrics, but the functional
Speaker 3: point is to transform your society or to defend it,
Speaker 3: and you know people need to take that seriously. And
Speaker 3: the other thing is again, I mean, I know as
Speaker 3: has picked up on non state solutions, but you know
Speaker 3: in South Africa it's much more tangible. It's like you
Speaker 3: have to provide all of this, all of the state
Speaker 3: functions yourself in many areas.
Speaker 2: Because the state is collapsing around you.
Speaker 3: Correct, but how do you think?
Speaker 2: Honestly, you don't even have to ask permission because the
Speaker 2: state can't do anything to stop you, right, And how
Speaker 2: do you.
Speaker 3: Think about this if you have a state, if you
Speaker 3: have a civil society, I mean here in the Western Cape,
Speaker 3: it's sort of like a limbo zone where you can
Speaker 3: you can, you can see the can, you can see
Speaker 3: the mud slide approaching you, and you don't know if
Speaker 3: your heart is going to be swept away. But you're
Speaker 3: also aware that things are still a long way off,
Speaker 3: or at least far enough off the you know, so
Speaker 3: if you wanted to, you could park off and have
Speaker 3: a holiday, you know, but it's still coming. And then
Speaker 3: you've got the first world where everything it's easy to
Speaker 3: be lolled into a false sense of security. But what
Speaker 3: have you got around you? You haven't got these sort
Speaker 3: of gaps where there are obvious sort of solutions where
Speaker 3: you can editize. I mean, even as organization that he
Speaker 3: works for, Afri Forum, the big thing that they actually got, well,
Speaker 3: one of the bigger things that they got famous for
Speaker 3: when they were sort of a bit smaller, was fixing
Speaker 3: potholes in the roads. But in my province we have
Speaker 3: a sort of liberal mostly minority government and ethnic minority government.
Speaker 3: Who are you know, they're pretty good at keeping the
Speaker 3: roads paved. So then you know, what, what's your process
Speaker 3: for appeal to build your organizational structure, it's got to
Speaker 3: be a bit different. You've got to focus on like
Speaker 3: cultural items and sort of labor issues and funny things
Speaker 3: like that. And in Europe it's going to be very
Speaker 3: difficult because you really, you know, there's lots of infiltrators.
Speaker 3: It's not like over here, and I think you're going
Speaker 3: to have to build infrastructure outside the state. You're gonna
Speaker 3: build networks, You've gotta build. I mean, I don't want
Speaker 3: to teach anyone to suck eggs, but I think I
Speaker 3: think the thing is that it's actually kind of in
Speaker 3: a funny way, it's easier when the problem is very
Speaker 3: immediate because everyone can see it. When it's a nebulous
Speaker 3: like it is in Europe, you've got to get really creative.
Speaker 3: And I don't. I sort of I feel very nervous
Speaker 3: when I look at Europe because that's a place where
Speaker 3: if it falls apart, it will fall apart rapidly, and
Speaker 3: there's not a lot you can do to stop it
Speaker 3: once it gets past the point of my return.
Speaker 2: So it's like the difference between a house of cards
Speaker 2: made out of two cards and a house of cards
Speaker 2: made out of a hundred cards collapsing.
Speaker 3: I think that's a good analogy. Yeah yeah, so yeah,
Speaker 3: ours there is a house of cards of two cards,
Speaker 3: like you just knock one. Oh wow, it's fallen over. Well,
Speaker 3: let's just put it up a little bit, you know.
Speaker 3: But you know you're in Europe.
Speaker 2: You've got like it and it's cut off card and
Speaker 2: build a little little structure within.
Speaker 3: When that thing falls, you know it's going to it's
Speaker 3: it's not just going it's not just going to be
Speaker 3: a sort of you know, an elegant arrangement. It's going
Speaker 3: to be horribly brutal, you know. I mean, I don't know,
Speaker 3: I don't know what people are looking forward to at
Speaker 3: the moment there. But my point is you have nowhere
Speaker 3: to run to, so you know you've got to do something.
Speaker 3: I don't know, I don't know what people do. They're
Speaker 3: going to do something because you know, it's your future,
Speaker 3: it's place, it's your it's your parture, you know. I mean,
Speaker 3: we've been here long.
Speaker 2: And the other thing is that you should abandoned this
Speaker 2: this idea of well things get bad I'll just move
Speaker 2: to a different state, or I'll just move to a
Speaker 2: different country. Eventually, tide you run out of the higher
Speaker 2: ground to lead to Eventually you're going to drown.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but like you can't.
Speaker 5: I mean, what are you going to do.
Speaker 3: You're going to be some derascinated expert floating around the
Speaker 3: Middle East or East Southeast Asia, you know. I mean,
Speaker 3: it's like, that's not a sustainable that's not a sustainable
Speaker 3: model for any community. I don't see I don't see
Speaker 3: that as being I don't see that as being like
Speaker 3: a future anyone wants to be a part of. I mean,
Speaker 3: it certainly can be a future that people end up in,
Speaker 3: and it can be fun, you know, up to up
Speaker 3: to a point, but you know, collectively, that's not that's
Speaker 3: not a future anyone should be designing. So you know,
Speaker 3: you're going to pick what you end up as much
Speaker 3: as you can. And I mean, then at least you know,
Speaker 3: if you fail, you can at least you know you
Speaker 3: can go out saying, well, you know, I did my part,
Speaker 3: I've done my duty. I'm not going to feel ashamed
Speaker 3: of myself. At the very least, you know, you don't
Speaker 3: want to be it's it's it's the equivalent of going
Speaker 3: to your your mother's funeral and not having parted on
Speaker 3: good good terms. You know, you've got to do your
Speaker 3: you've got to do your heritage, you've got to do
Speaker 3: your future a good term so that you can rested
Speaker 3: lease a little bit easy.
Speaker 1: I think, well, let's end up there, give your plugs
Speaker 1: any anything you want, anything you want.
Speaker 2: To so my plugs are not going to work seeing
Speaker 2: as it's a rolling black art and there's no electricity.
Speaker 2: But now I'll keep it simple and short. If people
Speaker 2: like want to explore more of these types of ideas
Speaker 2: and about and follow a channel and a commentator that
Speaker 2: specifically focuses on culture and politics in Southern Africa, you
Speaker 2: can go to my YouTube channel, a Conscious Caricle, or
Speaker 2: you can follow me on Twitter also Conscious Carical. One
Speaker 2: of the jokes always and people ask me like, how
Speaker 2: did you choose your username? What was your plan with
Speaker 2: your whole brand? I'm like, if I if I had
Speaker 2: a plan from the beginning and thought that I'll was
Speaker 2: going to gain an audience at all, I would have
Speaker 2: chosen the easier name to spell and plug. But if
Speaker 2: you really want to, if you need it, spelled art
Speaker 2: on on Twitter, I'm at C O N C A
Speaker 2: R A C A L or just conscious character for
Speaker 2: those that can that can go type it in. And
Speaker 2: then also you can just so check out my YouTube
Speaker 2: and my Twitter and then from there you'll find everything else.
Speaker 2: And that's that's about it.
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, Well, I have a I have a blog,
Speaker 3: and I have a Twitter handle, and I have a
Speaker 3: YouTube channel, but I don't update the YouTube channel very much,
Speaker 3: and my blog is also sporadic. It depends on what
Speaker 3: I'm working on in my professional capacity. I'm not the
Speaker 3: most organized person. So if I've got any if I'm
Speaker 3: if I'm even marginally busy in my professional life, I don't.
Speaker 3: I don't do any of this stuff on the side.
Speaker 3: But I do have a sort of mostly completed documentary
Speaker 3: series so African History that I made on my YouTube
Speaker 3: channel that was really good. That's Marl Barney. That's m
Speaker 3: A R H O B A n E. And then
Speaker 3: I mean there's like a few sort of like essays
Speaker 3: which I read out and took questions on on that
Speaker 3: channel as well. And then my my substack has a
Speaker 3: whole bunch of stuff varying from you know, like meditative,
Speaker 3: you know, reflections on sort of literature and philosophy and
Speaker 3: history and stuff and politics and electoral politics and coach. Yeah,
Speaker 3: all that kind of stuff. Mostly centered on CI Africa,
Speaker 3: but a casey global politics. Also Marl Banni at substack
Speaker 3: and then now on Twitter, I'm under my own name,
Speaker 3: I mean the handles at Marl Barney, but the the
Speaker 3: name of the account is my name, Robert Dagens d
Speaker 3: U I G A N. There's only one of me
Speaker 3: because it's a fairly unusual little Irish surname. And yeah,
Speaker 3: so you can check that out if you really want
Speaker 3: to and hopefully find it interesting.
Speaker 2: For more context on the I think what I was
Speaker 2: talking about on the show, you can go read my
Speaker 2: im seventeen seventy six piece A Time to Dig Trenches.
Speaker 2: I think that I'll give you a lot more in depth,
Speaker 2: nuanced than what we were able to fit in an
Speaker 2: A and of sure I.
Speaker 1: Will make sure to link to all of that so
Speaker 1: that people can get easy access. So man, thank you
Speaker 1: very much. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 2: All right, thank you, cheers walk well, God bless.
Speaker 1: I want to welcome everyone back to the Peak and
Speaker 1: Yona show. I am pleased today to be talking to
Speaker 1: mister Simon Roche. Is it how do we pronounce your name?
Speaker 5: Is it roach? Everybody says Roch or roach, but technically
Speaker 5: it's Rosch. It's a French word that means stone. A rush.
Speaker 1: Sounds good to me. Welcome to the show. Tell everybody
Speaker 1: a little bit of yourself.
Speaker 5: And thank you very much for having us Pete. My
Speaker 5: name is Simon Rosch. I represent an organization called Southlanders.
Speaker 5: The first vowel sound is a bit tricky. It's Sui
Speaker 5: d Landers, Sui d Landers and Southlanders means Southlanders or
Speaker 5: Southern as if you prefer. And Southlanders is a civil
Speaker 5: defense organization constituted as such under international law. South African
Speaker 5: organization dedicated to the planning and preparation of a national
Speaker 5: emergency plan in the event of a civil war in
Speaker 5: South Africa, which sounds very extreme and dramatic until you
Speaker 5: consider the I suppose the background. South afric occurs an
Speaker 5: unstable country, as it's proven over the past thirty years,
Speaker 5: and we happen to be those people who believe that
Speaker 5: the trajectory like a ball sailing through the air of
Speaker 5: South Africa is quite clear. We're headed for some sort
Speaker 5: of a collision, a crisis. The country can't go forever
Speaker 5: the way it has been going under anc rule for
Speaker 5: almost the past thirty years, since the twenty seventh of
Speaker 5: April nineteen ninety four, without eventually some crisis emerging. So
Speaker 5: we're a civil defense organization constituted under the specific provisions
Speaker 5: of international law, particularly but not only, the Jeevan Geneva Conventions.
Speaker 5: The protocol are known as the protocols additional to the
Speaker 5: Geneva Conventions, which make specific provision, very specific provision for
Speaker 5: identifiable ethnic groups to prepare to defend themselves in the
Speaker 5: event of a calamity in their country, whether that be
Speaker 5: a civil war or an international war, whatever the case
Speaker 5: may be. And so we're just those people. Were the
Speaker 5: largest organization of our sort in the world, and if
Speaker 5: anybody has an interest, they welcome to visit State Lounders
Speaker 5: s u id landers dot org the largest organization of
Speaker 5: our sort in the world. And I represent the organization.
Speaker 5: I'm a salaried employee, I'm paid to do the work
Speaker 5: that I do, and I'm presently in the United States
Speaker 5: spreading the word and endeavoring to raise funds for the
Speaker 5: work that we do.
Speaker 1: Well, I think a lot of the people who watch
Speaker 1: the show are aware, at least, if not in depth,
Speaker 1: have a cursory knowledge of everything that's going on in
Speaker 1: South Africa and has been since what's known as apartheid ended.
Speaker 1: But I would like you to start by doing an
Speaker 1: overview of the history of South Africa. I think a
Speaker 1: lot of people believe that South Africa is a place
Speaker 1: where it was completely inhabited by indigenous Black Africans and
Speaker 1: the white man came in and pushed them out or
Speaker 1: enslaved them. And is that a proper narrative or is
Speaker 1: that something that is just made up, like a lot
Speaker 1: of the history we hear in the world.
Speaker 5: Now, No, it's a gross exaggeration, Pete. The first permanent
Speaker 5: settlement was established in South Africa in sixteen fifty two,
Speaker 5: and at that time the whites the colonizers, They were Dutch.
Speaker 5: The first permanent settlement was what is now known as
Speaker 5: Cape Town. Well it was then as well, and those
Speaker 5: people worked for the Dutch East India Company, and they
Speaker 5: met Indigenous Africans, particularly the people known as Bushman. The
Speaker 5: politically correct term for bushman is san but it's actually
Speaker 5: a very nasty word. It's a black word for robber
Speaker 5: or thief, so it's politically correct stupidity, really, the stupidity
Speaker 5: of academics and elitists who can't speak a word of
Speaker 5: an indigenous language, true to form. And the bushmen are
Speaker 5: very small people, very scattered people, and there was kind
Speaker 5: of a modus vivendi, you know that there was stealing
Speaker 5: and reprisals and what have you. But the colonizers and
Speaker 5: the bushmen coexisted because the region is very, very spacious.
Speaker 5: About one hundred and twenty five years later, the then
Speaker 5: commander of the fort at Cape Town got it into
Speaker 5: his head to search out black people because he was
Speaker 5: in Africa, you know what I mean. And all he'd
Speaker 5: met was the little, yellow skinned, very petite bushmen who
Speaker 5: lived in small family groups, very scattered, without much without
Speaker 5: any governance of any description whatsoever, and without much social
Speaker 5: structure apart from these tiny little family groups. And he
Speaker 5: wanted to know where the black where all the black
Speaker 5: people are. He's in Africa, you know, he was supposed
Speaker 5: to have black shir and so he set out on
Speaker 5: a journey to find proper dark skin, dark curly head,
Speaker 5: broad shouldered black people, as you know, them, and he
Speaker 5: found them about six hundred miles away from Cape Town
Speaker 5: after almost a two year search, on the east bank
Speaker 5: of the famous Great Fish River. And that one anecdote
Speaker 5: tells you the whole story. It tells you everything that
Speaker 5: you need to know. Excuse me on the simple reality
Speaker 5: is that South Africa was so sparsely populated, and indeed
Speaker 5: an enormous portion of it not populated at all by
Speaker 5: Black Africans, that it took the proto whites of South Africa,
Speaker 5: the first whites of South Africa, one hundred and twenty
Speaker 5: five years to meet up with the Negroid to use
Speaker 5: the technical term the Negroid black people of Africa as
Speaker 5: everybody knows them. And if that is not instructive, then
Speaker 5: nothing will ever teach anybody anything. It took the whites
Speaker 5: of South Africa one hundred and twenty five years to
Speaker 5: meet the first also people, the first black people before
Speaker 5: the Zulus, the Sutus, the Twanas, the de barely and
Speaker 5: so on. One hundred and twenty five years. And you know
Speaker 5: today was flicking through Tweeter and a black South African
Speaker 5: was making some sort of cynical observations of African National
Speaker 5: Congress government and he was pointing out that it's a
Speaker 5: very little known fact that the majority of farmland in
Speaker 5: South Africa is owned by black people. And as you
Speaker 5: and I know, there's been this anc campaign over the
Speaker 5: past thirty years to repatriate the land to the blacks,
Speaker 5: and liberals and imbeciles have the idea in their minds
Speaker 5: that the whites own all of the farmland and the
Speaker 5: blacks are cooped up in teeny tiny little I don't
Speaker 5: know what, like Brazilian favelas or something. And it's an
Speaker 5: absolute fallacy, even right through a part eight. Aside from
Speaker 5: privately owned black land, aside from black townships, the Zulu
Speaker 5: Kingdom's Trust, which is called the Ingonyama Trust owned and
Speaker 5: still does own thirty two percent of the Zulu Province,
Speaker 5: the Zulu Land Province, the Quadzulu Province formerly known as
Speaker 5: the Natel Province. And that's just one anecdote. I could
Speaker 5: give you hundreds that might give a sense of perspective
Speaker 5: on this thing. It's very, very, very poorly understood. It's
Speaker 5: not like the United States of America. It's not like
Speaker 5: whatever other example you want to pluck out of thin air.
Speaker 5: South Africa is South Africa, was very sparsely populated. It
Speaker 5: took over a century for whites and blacks as such
Speaker 5: to meet, and to this day black people occupy and
Speaker 5: own a significant portion of the country.
Speaker 1: I know that mining minerals gems are a part of
Speaker 1: the history. When did that start and did that bring
Speaker 1: tension among the people.
Speaker 5: So, in reply to your question, naturally it created tension,
Speaker 5: I should point out to you, and this is very
Speaker 5: very well recorded. This is not some convenient right wing
Speaker 5: racist maniac statistic. People can look this up for themselves.
Speaker 5: In the early part of the nineteenth century, that is
Speaker 5: to say, the early eighteen hundreds. In eighteen oh seven,
Speaker 5: the British Empire banned the slave trade, but the banning
Speaker 5: of slave ownership only occurred in eighteen thirty four. So
Speaker 5: those are two salient figures for your audience members to
Speaker 5: remember for the rest of their lives. If people talk
Speaker 5: about slavery and slaving and what have you. Eighteen oh seven,
Speaker 5: right throughout the British Empire, the slave trade is banned.
Speaker 5: I can't buy slaves anymore, I can't sell you slaves anymore.
Speaker 5: But I'm going to hang on to the slaves that
Speaker 5: I do have, and that lasted for twenty seven years
Speaker 5: until eighteen thirty four. Now that's almost an aside. It's
Speaker 5: not really that relevant to what I'm about to say,
Speaker 5: but it gives some sense of perspective. During that period,
Speaker 5: an event known as the Great Crushing occurred, the infantah
Speaker 5: Neh and all of that. There's absolute consensus between all
Speaker 5: serious scholars on this subject, and that is that the
Speaker 5: number of black people in South Africa at that time
Speaker 5: was roughly three million. And in this Great Crushing, this
Speaker 5: enormous civil war between black people, not involving whites at
Speaker 5: all at all, no whites participated. There's no record, there's
Speaker 5: no allegation, there's no claim, there's no nothing. The blacks
Speaker 5: killed about two thirds of their population, something like two thirds,
Speaker 5: and they're fantastic records of this. And these were in
Speaker 5: regions that had not been ever occupied by whites, because
Speaker 5: the whites had not yet fled the Cape of Good
Speaker 5: Hope in reaction to the slaving laws. It was only
Speaker 5: after eighteen thirty four that the whites said, we hate
Speaker 5: the British Empire. We don't want anything more to do
Speaker 5: with the Queen. They can all go to hell. We're
Speaker 5: leaving this colony, this British colony. By then it was British,
Speaker 5: although it was founded by the Dutch. And we're setting
Speaker 5: off into the hinterland to create new republics, the famous
Speaker 5: poor republics. And off they went. But that began only
Speaker 5: in response to the slaving dramas of eighteen thirty four
Speaker 5: and thereabouts. So prior to that, in the regions outside
Speaker 5: of those or that large region occupied by the whites
Speaker 5: and the bushmen, only the whites and the bushmen, the
Speaker 5: very sparsely scattered, the scarified bushmen. Only it was only
Speaker 5: in the mid is that the whites left that region
Speaker 5: and went into the regions that had hitherto been occupied
Speaker 5: by the blacks. And whether people like this argument or not,
Speaker 5: the reality is that the whites went into a region
Speaker 5: you can look it up, of about seven hundred eight
Speaker 5: hundred thousand square kilometers. I don't know what that is
Speaker 5: in miles and square miles, that was settled only by
Speaker 5: about a million people who had survived the infectani and
Speaker 5: liberal what do you call these people? Liberal missionaries, liberal adventurers,
Speaker 5: David Livingston and the like. They recorded, never mind the conservatives,
Speaker 5: the terrible racist the white South Africans blah blah blah.
Speaker 5: The liberals recorded how they treked for days and days
Speaker 5: and days, sometimes weeks, without seeing a living soul, but
Speaker 5: seeing tens of thousands of corpses and skeletons and so
Speaker 5: on scattered all over the show. So that's by way
Speaker 5: of giving some background to the mineral question. In the
Speaker 5: eighteen sixties and eighteen eighties, gold and diamonds were discovered,
Speaker 5: the largest load of or resource, if you like, of
Speaker 5: diamonds in the world. And then certainly and until today
Speaker 5: the US United States Geological Survey claims on its website
Speaker 5: until today that the largest gold resources in the world,
Speaker 5: over fifty percent, not just the largest, but over fifty
Speaker 5: percent of all of the world's gold resources until today,
Speaker 5: reside in South African soil. So along come the whites.
Speaker 5: They go into this very depopulated country. They set up
Speaker 5: these boyer republics. They leave the black people to their
Speaker 5: own devices. That is to say, you've got your place,
Speaker 5: no problem, we all settle over here. This was a
Speaker 5: very well known thing. There was very little pushing out
Speaker 5: or anything of that nature. If you're there, considering that
Speaker 5: you're very few and we're very few, well everything should
Speaker 5: be okay. And then the whites discovered the minerals, and
Speaker 5: of course, to this day it causes enormous resentment because
Speaker 5: there is the perception among black people that if you
Speaker 5: hadn't held us back, you know, we were surging forward,
Speaker 5: we were on the very verge of breaks through out
Speaker 5: of the Stone Age into the Space Age or whatever.
Speaker 5: If you hadn't discovered those mineral resources and exploited them
Speaker 5: for yourselves, well we would have found them and we
Speaker 5: would have built mind shafts and mines and what have you.
Speaker 5: But it's an argument that's not taken very seriously, not
Speaker 5: even by black people. Hopelessly unrealistic argument. So yes, it
Speaker 5: does cause tension and resentment and what have you, but
Speaker 5: it's not a terribly serious argument in pragmatic terms.
Speaker 1: Well, if you're into the late eighteen hundreds, why don't
Speaker 1: you jump into the nineteen hundreds and bring.
Speaker 2: Us up to.
Speaker 1: What would have caused what is known as apartheid.
Speaker 5: Well, the Bours formed excuse me, two republics. So the
Speaker 5: Burs are the white descendants of the first Dutch settlers
Speaker 5: intermingled with French Huguenots. That is to say, French Protestants
Speaker 5: fleeing the revocation of the Edict of Nant. I won't
Speaker 5: get into all of the details, but for your religious
Speaker 5: listeners that may be relevant. Intermingled with demobili German Lutheran soldiers,
Speaker 5: so in other words, soldiers from the north of Germany
Speaker 5: following that various wars. I wanted to say that Eighty
Speaker 5: Years War, but that was a bit before. So you
Speaker 5: had these three groups who came in in the sixteen
Speaker 5: hundreds and they intermarried and they formed a new breed
Speaker 5: of people, as Sir Arthur Conan Doyle of Sherlock Holmes
Speaker 5: Fame described so very eloquently in his book on the
Speaker 5: World War. And they settled and they hung around Cape
Speaker 5: Town for a long time, from the mid sixteen hundreds
Speaker 5: until the eighteen thirties. As I've already described to you,
Speaker 5: following the imposition of British laws upon the people of
Speaker 5: the colony, they decided to leave and they founded three
Speaker 5: new republics. We're going to leave the one on the
Speaker 5: one side, because it was almost immediately taken over by
Speaker 5: the British, was a bit of a failure in that sense.
Speaker 5: And the two well known republics were the Orange Free
Speaker 5: State and the Transvole, which by the way, is not
Speaker 5: its correct name, but it's the name that people might recognize.
Speaker 5: In eighteen fifty two and eighteen fifty four. Eighteen fifty two,
Speaker 5: the Transvole and then ironically the lower portion, the first
Speaker 5: that was discovered, only became a republic two years later.
Speaker 5: They became known as the Boer republics. Boer means farmer,
Speaker 5: so these Dutch slash Hugenot Lutheran people, and they were
Speaker 5: characterized by their religion that the French and the Germans
Speaker 5: they were Huguenots. They were not French people. They were
Speaker 5: French Protestants fleeing the revocation of the Edict of Nant
Speaker 5: and the Germans were Lutheran Germans who'd been demobilized following
Speaker 5: certain European wars. They're looking for a place to go.
Speaker 5: These people formed this kind of proto nation. And when
Speaker 5: that those people went out to form these new republics,
Speaker 5: all they really just ran away from British rule. They
Speaker 5: didn't know that they were going to form republics. They
Speaker 5: began to call themselves trakburen, which means pull farmers or
Speaker 5: itinerant farmers, and the name bur Stuck so to this day,
Speaker 5: the Afrikana, the Afrikaans speaking people of South Africa, the
Speaker 5: very conservative, tough ones, the famous ones, are referred to
Speaker 5: themselves as boors, which means farmers. It's people very closely
Speaker 5: attached to the land. It's quite almost a sensitive thing,
Speaker 5: you know, there's a deep, deep de thing of the
Speaker 5: soil is under our fingernails and we don't clean it
Speaker 5: out from there. And those two republics declared independence in
Speaker 5: eighteen fifty two and eighteen fifty four. Lo and behold
Speaker 5: gold was I mean, diamonds were discovered in the eighteen
Speaker 5: sixties in the one province, and so Queen Victoria bought
Speaker 5: that portion of that province for the South Africans who
Speaker 5: watched the same may not be aware that Kimberly and
Speaker 5: surrounding areas was once part of the Orange Free State.
Speaker 5: And then gold was discovered and the British invaded. It
Speaker 5: was a long series of pretexts and dramas and nonsense
Speaker 5: and what have you. But the Boer War took place
Speaker 5: between eighteen ninety nine and nineteen oh one, and within
Speaker 5: a few months, the very very few months. Many people
Speaker 5: don't know this, the British had practically won. They had
Speaker 5: won ninety percent of the war just a few holdouts,
Speaker 5: and I do mean just a few months. The balance
Speaker 5: of the two years was just a matter of a
Speaker 5: few holdouts riding through the felt endeavoring to escape. The
Speaker 5: British absolutely steamrolled the tiny, tiny bour force of about
Speaker 5: thirty odd thousand men, and in the process, as is
Speaker 5: well known, the British established not the first concentration camps
Speaker 5: in modern history, but certainly the second or third. And
Speaker 5: they starved to death something like thirty thousand Boer women
Speaker 5: and children, which was a fantastic proportion of the population
Speaker 5: and the British then that ends in nineteen oh one,
Speaker 5: nineteen oh two, but two thousand and I mean, I
Speaker 5: think at nineteen ten the British established complete rule over
Speaker 5: South Africa. It was broken up into four provinces and
Speaker 5: the British ruled from nineteen ten until nineteen sixty, and
Speaker 5: that was known as the Union of South Africa. The
Speaker 5: majority of the white people remained Afrikaans speaking, so in
Speaker 5: other words, the Afrikana bur people and the minority of
Speaker 5: whites in South Africa was the English speaking people. Yeah,
Speaker 5: the English speaking people. So there was this very dominant
Speaker 5: Buor folk, but they didn't have their own government. It
Speaker 5: was a British colony, and they brought in the a
Speaker 5: part of what later became known as the Aparthe eight Laws.
Speaker 5: They didn't give the name apart eight to those laws,
Speaker 5: but they were the ones the British who said, well, look,
Speaker 5: if we're going to be running this place, you know,
Speaker 5: the boys have been a bit slap dash about these things.
Speaker 5: They've been allowing the Blacks to settle wherever they want
Speaker 5: and occupy whatever land they wanted. There's been a very
Speaker 5: cozy relationship here. But we need to formalize things. We
Speaker 5: British colonizers, we don't play around when it comes to colonialism.
Speaker 5: We need rules, strict lots of strict rules. And so
Speaker 5: they brought in the idea of blacks being able to
Speaker 5: travel on the same train, or only being able to
Speaker 5: travel on one compartment of a train, while the rest is,
Speaker 5: you know, one hundred people in one compartment whereas ten
Speaker 5: people in another six compartments. They're devoted to whites. They
Speaker 5: brought in the first group areas acts and so on
Speaker 5: and so forth, Which is not to say that conservative
Speaker 5: white South Africans like myself abdicate all responsibility that we say,
Speaker 5: all goodness me, we would never have been so brutal.
Speaker 5: It's the British who did that. That's not the point.
Speaker 5: What we're saying is we were advocates of a Part eight. However,
Speaker 5: don't make the mistake of believing that we came up
Speaker 5: with the idea. It was in place for fifty one
Speaker 5: years before the South Africa became a republic, before we
Speaker 5: were no longer a colony of Great Britain and the
Speaker 5: South African Aparthe eight ended effectively in nineteen ninety two.
Speaker 5: I won't go into the details, but if you would
Speaker 5: prefer not to give me the benefit of the doubt,
Speaker 5: then let's say nineteen ninety four when the ANC formally
Speaker 5: took over. So that means there was fifty one years
Speaker 5: of British colonial rule during which all of those laws
Speaker 5: were established by none all of them, and then a
Speaker 5: Part eight as people know it, as people blame us for,
Speaker 5: because they never blame the flaming British, do they ever
Speaker 5: a Part eight? Real aparties It was not fifty one years,
Speaker 5: It was at most thirty three years. But actually a
Speaker 5: little bit lease So I think that that's kind of
Speaker 5: a comprehensive answer to your question.
Speaker 1: Pete, Well, I think a lot of people would like
Speaker 1: to know what life was like. I mean, I don't
Speaker 1: I'm not asking your age. I don't know if you
Speaker 1: were conscious of what was going on when apartheid was
Speaker 1: under way, but a lot of from everything that Western
Speaker 1: media would tell us, it was just basically oppression of
Speaker 1: blacks all day, every day and white Scots to live
Speaker 1: like kings and enslave them. And they make it seem
Speaker 1: like no white person in the country was working at
Speaker 1: the time. So can you talk a little bit about
Speaker 1: what conditions were actually like.
Speaker 5: Relatively speaking, they were poor, relatively speaking, white people lived
Speaker 5: in Well for instance, I don't come from a wealthy family,
Speaker 5: not at all. My dad worked in a factory. He
Speaker 5: worked his way up to a senior position, but he
Speaker 5: was a tree worker and we were five kids, so
Speaker 5: there wasn't a lot of money. And I grew up
Speaker 5: during the seventies and eighties. I'm born in nineteen seventy one.
Speaker 5: I'm fifty two years old now, so I grew up
Speaker 5: in that period. Following the impositions of sanctions by the
Speaker 5: world in the mid seventies. Beginning in the mid seventies
Speaker 5: were now our rand value collapsed. So to give you
Speaker 5: a sense of perspective, a bigger partner dollar now costs
Speaker 5: a twenty ran. When I was a kid, a dollar
Speaker 5: cost fifty of our cents, so our rand currency was
Speaker 5: worth twice as much as the dollar. And then the
Speaker 5: sanctions were imposed and it was all broken and destroyed
Speaker 5: forever more and then exacerbated obviously when the anc took over.
Speaker 5: But we grew up in a house of a double
Speaker 5: story brick house on a sixteenth of an acre, five bedrooms,
Speaker 5: you know, that kind of standard, very comfortable Western European thing.
Speaker 5: You know, the kind of house you would like to
Speaker 5: you would statistically we're likely to grow up in as
Speaker 5: an American or a Canadian, or a middle class Australian,
Speaker 5: New Zealander or South Africa. And obviously white people are
Speaker 5: bigger part in. Black people didn't have that. Black people
Speaker 5: didn't have the opportunity to obtain such wealth. The overwhelming
Speaker 5: majority lived in what were known as four rooms, the
Speaker 5: famous four rooms that were built by the apartheid government.
Speaker 5: And I'll tell you an interesting story. I was the
Speaker 5: project manager of a very very famous, probably the most
Speaker 5: famous African National Congress conference ever. I was a what's
Speaker 5: known as a special projects projects manager, so things like
Speaker 5: opening ceremonies of the Olympics or the World I never
Speaker 5: did the Olympics, I'm just giving an example, or the
Speaker 5: closing ceremony of the World Cup of Football, or presidential inaugurations.
Speaker 5: That's what I did for an occupation for many years.
Speaker 5: And at this very famous conference, very very big, huge,
Speaker 5: there was a riot among the ANC, the senior members
Speaker 5: of the ANC, the five thousand most senior members of
Speaker 5: the ANC. Within the venue, there wasn't a room big
Speaker 5: enough to hold the conference. A room in South Africa,
Speaker 5: no indoor sports stadium, no nothing. And so a huge
Speaker 5: tent was rented on Germany and it was imported and
Speaker 5: this tent was erected for this enormous conference. Five thousand
Speaker 5: most senior members plus others, five thousand, five hundred people
Speaker 5: in the room. I'm the project manager. I'm standing at
Speaker 5: the back, you know, making sure that everything's going well,
Speaker 5: that the audio visual is going well, the audio that
Speaker 5: is that that da da da da. And this riot
Speaker 5: breaks up, people beating one another over the head with
Speaker 5: chairs and desks and what have you. And the guy
Speaker 5: next to me was a friend of mine and he
Speaker 5: was a famous ANC activist. It was pure coincidence that
Speaker 5: he and I were in the role that we were in.
Speaker 5: We weren't there as anything but technicians as it were,
Speaker 5: of the event. And this guy's name is Mobi Mobi Mabaso.
Speaker 5: It means ugly. His mother called him ugly when he
Speaker 5: was born. That's his real name. And knowing that besides
Speaker 5: being an audio visual gene, he was an ANC activist
Speaker 5: and a very good friend of mine, I was able
Speaker 5: to turn to him and say what now, movie, what
Speaker 5: the flip is going on now? And he said to me, Simon,
Speaker 5: people are upset that in the By then the ANC
Speaker 5: had been in power for fourteen years, he said, and
Speaker 5: we took over the building of the houses. We started
Speaker 5: building rubbish. So black people lived in these famous four
Speaker 5: room houses built by a part eight, which were supposedly
Speaker 5: disgusting and disgraceful. But fourteen years later, the entire leadership
Speaker 5: of the African National Congress, five thousand people were beating
Speaker 5: one another over the head with desks and chairs and
Speaker 5: what are known as gooseneck microphones over the inability of
Speaker 5: the African National Congress to deliver to black people a
Speaker 5: fraction of what white people had been able to deliver.
Speaker 5: I think that my answer gives you a sense of perspective.
Speaker 5: Nobody's alleging that black people lived like kings. But what
Speaker 5: is a matter of fact is that black people in
Speaker 5: white in a part eight South Africa were afforded a
Speaker 5: standard of living by the state, by the state that
Speaker 5: was incomparable throughout Africa and certainly has not been compared
Speaker 5: in the intervening thirty years.
Speaker 1: Simon, let me ask you. You mentioned that in nineteen
Speaker 1: ninety four the ANC took over. Was that an I
Speaker 1: assume that was an election, right?
Speaker 5: Yeah. By the mid eighties it became clear that the
Speaker 5: South Africa's position was untenable. Now this is debatable, and
Speaker 5: conservative white South Africans who watched this video might become
Speaker 5: very offended by what I'm about to say, but they
Speaker 5: must also understand that I have to I can't spend
Speaker 5: fifty fifteen hours on this interview, so I have to
Speaker 5: keep things simple, and the best way to do that
Speaker 5: is to go for the general. So the general is
Speaker 5: this universal sanctions and a twenty seven percent annual inflation
Speaker 5: rate made South Africa's sustainability very difficult and through a
Speaker 5: series of shenanigans and false moves and deceit and all
Speaker 5: sorts of devious things. In nineteen ninety the government presented
Speaker 5: white South Africa with a referendum, a beggar pardon sorry,
Speaker 5: a bigger parton in nineteen ninety the government released Nelson
Speaker 5: Mandela under phenomenal pressure February nineteen ninety. Then in nineteen
Speaker 5: ninety two, the government asked White South Africa to vote
Speaker 5: on continuing negotiations with the African National Congress. So there
Speaker 5: was a sticking point, a real impasse. At that time.
Speaker 5: Conservative White South Africa were saying how dare you betray us?
Speaker 5: And liberal White South Africa were saying, well, you've got
Speaker 5: to do more. And there was a lot of agitation
Speaker 5: within the country, a lot of violence, political murders, Winnie
Speaker 5: Mandela and her necklacing. It was a difficult, difficult time,
Speaker 5: and White South Africans, allegedly whether the vote or the
Speaker 5: results were true or not is another matter, allegedly voted
Speaker 5: just over two thirds yes, please continue negotiations with the
Speaker 5: African National Congress so that we can hold free and fair,
Speaker 5: multi racial, universal plebisite elections, and we can get back
Speaker 5: to playing rugby with the rest of the world, and
Speaker 5: international cricket and free trade and so on and so forth,
Speaker 5: and investment. We want McCain's vegetables to appear on our
Speaker 5: super mar shells. We want Burger king to appear in
Speaker 5: South Afrik, so on and so forth. So yes, nineteen
Speaker 5: ninety Nelson mandelas released nineteen ninety two, this huge seminal
Speaker 5: rubicon crossing of the rubicon moment election is held. And
Speaker 5: then in nineteen ninety four, on the twenty seventh of
Speaker 5: April nineteen ninety four, the first multiracial election was held.
Speaker 5: It was won by the African National Congress under the
Speaker 5: leadership of Nelson Mandela.
Speaker 6: What happened after that, Well, the A and C took
Speaker 6: over and they were given arguably the greatest benefit of
Speaker 6: the doubt of any.
Speaker 5: Ruling party in government in the history of the world.
Speaker 5: They could do no wrong. The African National Congress has
Speaker 5: spent thirty years one of the world's gems. Now to
Speaker 5: some people, that makes no difference. Some people will say
Speaker 5: to you, well, it doesn't matter. Freedom and equality and
Speaker 5: justice are all that count and those were not present
Speaker 5: during A Part eight, not for the majority, the black majority.
Speaker 5: Therefore it doesn't matter. The ANC remains legitimate. The entire
Speaker 5: process is a legitimate. The New South Africa, or the
Speaker 5: Rainbow Nation as it's called, is legitimate. Fine, no problem,
Speaker 5: it's okay. We're not going down that road here. I'm
Speaker 5: just going to tell you that whether A Part eight
Speaker 5: was good or bad, whether the New South Africa is
Speaker 5: good or bad, it's a catastrophe of the first class.
Speaker 5: And I'll give you some illustrations at the times prior
Speaker 5: to and after we keep it simple. Prior to nineteen
Speaker 5: ninety four, South Africa produced more than double the electricity
Speaker 5: produced by all of the rest of the now fifty
Speaker 5: four countries of Africa, so one versus fifty three. But
Speaker 5: at the time there weren't fifty four countries. I think
Speaker 5: there were fifty two, so it was one versus fifty one.
Speaker 5: So one country produced more than double all of the
Speaker 5: electricity that the other fifty one put together were able
Speaker 5: to produce. South Africa produced more than double the potable
Speaker 5: water that the other fifty one countries of Africa were
Speaker 5: able to produce. South Africa's standards of education for black
Speaker 5: people were country miles ahead of the majority of African countries.
Speaker 5: The Aparthe government provide. I did the famous four room
Speaker 5: houses to all black families, the four room houses that
Speaker 5: I've already described to you. Chris Hahni Baragwanath Hospital in
Speaker 5: Soweto is or was, i should say, the largest hospital
Speaker 5: in the world for decades and decades and decades. So
Speaker 5: there were many features of a party that were far
Speaker 5: more beneficial to Black Africans than freedom. Democracy, love, peace
Speaker 5: and the wind blowing through your hair are to them now,
Speaker 5: and I'll give you a few illustrations of the negatives.
Speaker 5: In the week prior to my departure for the USA,
Speaker 5: the daily rotational blackouts, every man, woman and child in
Speaker 5: the country has the same, but it's staggered forty five
Speaker 5: minutes for my suburb, then an hour and a half
Speaker 5: for yours, then two and a half hour for the
Speaker 5: next cup. But the national blackouts were nine and a
Speaker 5: half hours a day no electricity, and in the previous
Speaker 5: week to that they were eleven and a half hours
Speaker 5: a day. Now, imagine trying to use a cell phone,
Speaker 5: use the internet, run a machine shop, run a beauty parlor,
Speaker 5: run a dollar store. Imagine trying to do schooling education,
Speaker 5: Imagine trying to run a hospital with out electricity. It's
Speaker 5: too much for your mind, Pete. It really is that bad.
Speaker 5: The economy of Africa is absolutely dominated. And if anybody
Speaker 5: would like to now take advantage of this opportunity to
Speaker 5: pull up a map of Africa while I'm waffling, they
Speaker 5: can do so very easily. Just type into Google or
Speaker 5: open Google Earth. If you pull up a map of Africa,
Speaker 5: zoom in to the bottom and hopefully you will be
Speaker 5: able to identify the province of kW Teng. kW Teng
Speaker 5: is a teeny tiny little province in South Africa, miniature,
Speaker 5: and it produces almost one fifth of the GDP of
Speaker 5: all of Africa to this day. Now imagine being the
Speaker 5: province of kW Teng and the African National Congress says,
Speaker 5: we and Africa really need you keep going, boy, but
Speaker 5: we can't give you electricity. It's a flaming joke, Pete.
Speaker 5: That is African National Congress rule. It is Africanist rule.
Speaker 5: It's the rule of inability, the rule of incompetence, the
Speaker 5: rule of lack, the rule of failure, the rule of poor, poor,
Speaker 5: weak inferior eleven and a half hours a day, and
Speaker 5: not three decades ago, South Africa was producing more than
Speaker 5: double the electricity of all of the other countries of
Speaker 5: Africa put together. That's African National Congress rule for you, Pete.
Speaker 1: Is it incompetence or is it punishment or is it both?
Speaker 5: I would say that it's both. I would say that
Speaker 5: the punishment or the spitefulness has got a lot to
Speaker 5: do with the global elites. So, at the risk of
Speaker 5: saying something that becomes mystical and you know your audience
Speaker 5: finds annoying, I think that by now any thoughtful person
Speaker 5: has figured out for themselves that the COVID pandemic and
Speaker 5: the clot shot program and many other things that occur
Speaker 5: in the world are not do not occur at the
Speaker 5: behest of the putative leaders. Joe Biden is not Joe
Speaker 5: Biden's boss. And the list goes on that there is
Speaker 5: some kind of a ruling elite. Is at the Rothschilds,
Speaker 5: Is it the Rockefellers? Is it that we do? But
Speaker 5: what we do know is that the African National Congress
Speaker 5: is a communist party. We know that communism is derived
Speaker 5: from tumundism. This is not you. Nobody knows it because
Speaker 5: nobody likes to read. I know.
Speaker 1: A lot of the listeners know it, right.
Speaker 5: Cole Marx wrote extensively about how the first role of
Speaker 5: communism was to destroy I'm referring now specifically to his
Speaker 5: writings and the fourth critique of Hegel on this subject,
Speaker 5: how the first and primary role of communism is to
Speaker 5: destroy God in his manifestation on earth, which is the
Speaker 5: Christian family. And so we know these things. So I
Speaker 5: believe that the African National Congress is a tool for
Speaker 5: destroying the very very conservative, very Christian African abour falk.
Speaker 5: But I believe that they've been chosen suitably. You know,
Speaker 5: It's one thing for me to choose as my chosen
Speaker 5: instrument to saw a piece of wood a teaspoon. It's
Speaker 5: another thing for me to choose, for the purposes of
Speaker 5: sawing a piece of wood a wood saw, or even
Speaker 5: a hack saw, or even for that matter, a chisel
Speaker 5: to do some kind of piercing penetrating a job on
Speaker 5: a piece of wood. I would say to you that
Speaker 5: the African National Congress, by virtue of its inherent antipathy
Speaker 5: for labor for industriousness, for productivity, for study. As the
Speaker 5: great South African super liberal scholar Jimmy what is his name, Oh,
Speaker 5: dear me, Simon. I'll think of his name in a minute.
Speaker 5: As he said in a speech a few years ago,
Speaker 5: the reality is that there is an absence of a
Speaker 5: culture of learning in in black South Africa. He was
Speaker 5: just saying it like it is, even though he's a
Speaker 5: super liberal guy, and somebody had to sooner or later.
Speaker 5: So I think that what global communism did, what the
Speaker 5: elites did, what it's the rothschilds or that is say
Speaker 5: in South Africa, we want these people to be destroyed
Speaker 5: by those people. How do we go about it? And
Speaker 5: somebody said, well, let's play to the strengths of those people.
Speaker 5: We know that they that they hate industriousness and productivity,
Speaker 5: we know that they are extremely vindictive people. Let us
Speaker 5: allow them to use those particular qualities, to employ those
Speaker 5: particular qualities. If they were a hammer, let them hammer
Speaker 5: rather than saw, or rather than use them to eat yogurt,
Speaker 5: lit them hemma the hammers. And I think that's what
Speaker 5: we're seeing playing out in South Africa now as so
Speaker 5: much collapses, education system collapsed, railway system absolutely collapsed, electricity
Speaker 5: system completely collapsed, the government's administration system very much collapsed.
Speaker 5: We've seen play out the natural extension of exploiting the
Speaker 5: inherent qualities of the African National Congress as a communist
Speaker 5: party in taking over the new South Africa or in creating,
Speaker 5: if you like, the new South Africa Rainbow Nation.
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Speaker 1: That's join crowdhealth dot com code pete q. A couple
Speaker 1: of years ago, in twenty twenty one, video was coming
Speaker 1: out of South Africa showing incredible violence, shopping malls being destroyed. Well, gunfights,
Speaker 1: I mean firefights in the streets. What happened then? Can
Speaker 1: what can you describe it as happening?
Speaker 2: Then?
Speaker 1: What caused that?
Speaker 5: Well? I should first point out to you that it
Speaker 5: has since come out in numerous liberal media that those
Speaker 5: events are regarded by those in the know as a
Speaker 5: rehearsal for revolution, and people who are interested in the
Speaker 5: subject are welcome to look up the following search term
Speaker 5: as one of me. Any examples the Daily Maverick July
Speaker 5: Riots twenty twenty one rehearsal for revolution. There's a numerous
Speaker 5: special reports on the subject, tremendous evidence for the fact
Speaker 5: that it was really, when all is said and done,
Speaker 5: a covert rehearsal for a later revolution. But ostensibly, on
Speaker 5: the surface of it, it was a matter of the
Speaker 5: former president, Jacob Zumer having to go to jail, and
Speaker 5: him refusing to go to jail, and him being kind
Speaker 5: of semi forced, and eventually in going to jail, it
Speaker 5: caused his supporters to go berserk. And for I think
Speaker 5: it was eight nights. I think it was the sixth
Speaker 5: to the fourteenth, if I remember correctly, eighth to the sixteenth. Anyway,
Speaker 5: I believe it was eight nights of rioting occurred. You know,
Speaker 5: people Zulu people were very unhappy that the first Zulu
Speaker 5: president of South Africa, the Zulus being well being the
Speaker 5: largest ethnic group of South Africa, very unhappy that the
Speaker 5: poor man had to go to jail for his many
Speaker 5: and many, many, many and various crimes ranging from admitted
Speaker 5: rape to well everything else under the sun. So they
Speaker 5: went on this rampage and they looted and pillaged and
Speaker 5: marauded and burned and so on and destroyed what in
Speaker 5: South African terms, I'm not going to even attempt to convert,
Speaker 5: you know, give an exchange rate, because it's misleading. If
Speaker 5: I said it was ten billion dollars worth of damaged,
Speaker 5: people would sy, oh, it's only ten billion dollars. In
Speaker 5: South Africa terms, that means everything. So it just destroyed
Speaker 5: a lot, and there was a lot of violence not
Speaker 5: only that took place that I'm describing to, but that
Speaker 5: came out of it. So what happened was that the
Speaker 5: black people went on the rampage and the Indian We
Speaker 5: have the largest population of Indians from India outside of
Speaker 5: India in the world. When I say we that province
Speaker 5: the surrounds. It's where I grew up. So I grew
Speaker 5: up knowing and seeing, regardless of Aparte, just who was there,
Speaker 5: who was in the street, who was whatever behind the counter?
Speaker 5: Far more Indian people than black people there. The Indian
Speaker 5: people outnumber the Zulu people the black people in that
Speaker 5: immediate vicinity around those cities. And as the riots grew
Speaker 5: or picked up pace, the perpetrators became emboldened, and they
Speaker 5: began to enter white and Indian neighborhoods. So the neighborhoods
Speaker 5: from apart eight days have obviously changed tremendously. It's nothing
Speaker 5: like it used to be, but you still have these
Speaker 5: kind of you know, this is traditionally where the Indian
Speaker 5: people were obliged by law to live. That's traditionally where
Speaker 5: the black people were obliged by law to live. That
Speaker 5: is traditionally where the colored people, that is to say,
Speaker 5: the mixed race people who insist upon being called colored,
Speaker 5: where the colored people lived, and the whites and so on,
Speaker 5: and so these zulus began to enter these areas, and
Speaker 5: the whites and the Indians began to form sort of
Speaker 5: vigilante defense committees, and they killed many, many, many, many
Speaker 5: many black people, which upset the African National Congress no end.
Speaker 5: The reasoning of the African National Congress was, if a
Speaker 5: thousand people approach your suburb, to rape your wife into
Speaker 5: to plunder your house, your first resort should not be
Speaker 5: to shoot them dead. It should be to give way.
Speaker 5: And who knows what, I don't think you know, anybody
Speaker 5: in the African National Congress has ever explained exactly how
Speaker 5: the matter should have been handled, But it has since
Speaker 5: become a matter of huge racial tension, enormous racial tension
Speaker 5: between particularly the Indians and the black people, to a
Speaker 5: lesser extent, the whites and the Blacks, most particularly the Indians.
Speaker 5: There's a level of hatred that now exists between those
Speaker 5: two racial population groups. Yes, but we're talking at more
Speaker 5: localized levels. So let's call them those two racial communities
Speaker 5: that has historically probably never existed because the Indians stood
Speaker 5: up for themselves and said this far and no further,
Speaker 5: you're not coming over our garden wall. Excuse my language,
Speaker 5: I beg your pardon, Pete.
Speaker 1: So when we were talking on the phone the other day,
Speaker 1: you made it very clear to me that with everything
Speaker 1: you had described in the beginning, why don't you give here,
Speaker 1: let's do this. Why don't you give an overview of
Speaker 1: what you were talking about as far as the Geneva convention,
Speaker 1: and it's basically its preparation for what you know is
Speaker 1: going to happen in the future.
Speaker 5: Firstly, let me quickly say that the elderly liberal and
Speaker 5: very famous Oxford Oxford University scholar to whom I was
Speaker 5: referring earlier. Whom I was quoting earlier is our W. R. W. Johnson. Yes,
Speaker 5: following World War Two, the Geneva or not the a
Speaker 5: Geneva Conventions. There are a number of Geneva Conventions that
Speaker 5: extend back to the eighteen hundreds, but the most recent
Speaker 5: iteration of the Geneva Conventions was drafted to govern the
Speaker 5: prosecution of war. So the nations of the world came
Speaker 5: together and said, look, we had the First World War
Speaker 5: and there was that chlorine gas must have gased. That
Speaker 5: wasn't very nice. And now we've had the Second World
Speaker 5: War in Collie g some of the things that happened
Speaker 5: a little bit on the nasty side. Perhaps we should
Speaker 5: write some treaties, some laws to ensure that we're not
Speaker 5: quite so horrible to one another next time round. And
Speaker 5: so in nineteen forty nine the Geneva Conventions of nineteen
Speaker 5: forty nine were ratified. Fast forward twenty eight years, and
Speaker 5: by nineteen seventy seven it had been recognized that there
Speaker 5: were a number of meaningful loopholes in the Geneva Conventions
Speaker 5: of nineteen forty nine. So the protocols Additional Protocols one,
Speaker 5: two and three are known as the Protocols Additional of
Speaker 5: nineteen seventy seven to the Geneva Conventions of nineteen forty
Speaker 5: nine were ratified, and those three protocols pay attention particularly
Speaker 5: to the circumstances of civilians in conflict. So they addressed many, many, many,
Speaker 5: many many features of what parties what they call parties
Speaker 5: to a conflict may and may not do with particular
Speaker 5: reference to civilians to non parties to a conflict. And
Speaker 5: we sat Lunders have constituted ourselves under those provisions of
Speaker 5: the Protocols Additional to the Geneva Conventions. One of the
Speaker 5: things that they provide for is for identifiable ethnic groups. Now,
Speaker 5: identifiable ethnic group doesn't mean that, you know, if I'm
Speaker 5: if I'm black, or if I'm very black, or if
Speaker 5: I'm not, if I'm like black, or whatever it means.
Speaker 5: It means more than just that. It means language and
Speaker 5: culture and religion and profession. What do I profess to be.
Speaker 5: I'm a Muslim, speak Bosnian with which is a South
Speaker 5: Slavic language, and I say I'm a Bosnian couse of art.
Speaker 5: That's who I am. That's the identification of me. Identifiable
Speaker 5: ethnic groups are permitted to pursue the preparations for the
Speaker 5: erection of national emergency plans or emergency plans for their people.
Speaker 5: In the event I'm just going to shift a lamp
Speaker 5: that's burning my eyes in the event of international and
Speaker 5: non international conflict. But there's one strict proviso, and that
Speaker 5: is that those parties have to become or those actors,
Speaker 5: let's say those actors have to become non parties to
Speaker 5: a conflict. So if there was a civil war in
Speaker 5: South Africa, civil war broke out tomorrow, Sat London's would say,
Speaker 5: we don't want to be a part of this. Otherwise
Speaker 5: we're going to lose. The IGIs the protection of international
Speaker 5: law and heard a nice national emergency plan for ourselves.
Speaker 5: So we're going to withdraw from the conflict and establish
Speaker 5: a safe zone, erect a perimeter, a defended a defensible
Speaker 5: and defended perimeter that's perfectly legal, but not be proactive,
Speaker 5: not be a protagonist in the conflict whatsoever. We will
Speaker 5: merely defend this perimeter and as I've already said, become
Speaker 5: a non party to the conflict. And that's the gist
Speaker 5: of it. The Geneva Conventions, the protocols, additional the provisions
Speaker 5: for identifiable ethnic groups to prepare for a conflict and
Speaker 5: then how they must act. What is the nature of
Speaker 5: that protection, What does it mean. It means that I
Speaker 5: must withdraw from the conflict, I must be a non
Speaker 5: party to it. But it also means that I can
Speaker 5: establish a safe area and defend it.
Speaker 1: Simon, when we talked the other day, you you made
Speaker 1: it very clear that you you didn't have a white
Speaker 1: pill for me. You you made it clear that you
Speaker 1: think that what's going to happen in South Africa is
Speaker 1: going to be the absolute worst possible thing that could happen,
Speaker 1: and that is civil war, violence and murder, everything that
Speaker 1: comes along with it. So why don't you tell everybody
Speaker 1: why you think there is no there's no saving it,
Speaker 1: there's no getting past that.
Speaker 5: Well, at the risk of answering you in an evasive man,
Speaker 5: I don't think that Demons is going to be evasive
Speaker 5: in the end at all. But I'll begin by saying this.
Speaker 5: When I told you this to in twenty nineteen, I
Speaker 5: was the main speaker at the annual party of a
Speaker 5: prominent organization in the USA, the annual Birthday Party, and
Speaker 5: I fell very ill the day before and I was
Speaker 5: so ill that I couldn't read the speech I'd written,
Speaker 5: couldn't focus my eyes on the page. And so I
Speaker 5: walked up on stage and I said, well, here's my speech,
Speaker 5: and I showed to them, all written out in Longhand,
Speaker 5: as I like to do, and I said, but I
Speaker 5: can't focus my eyes on the page. Hang over. Sorry,
Speaker 5: I'm just going to stand here. I'm going to ramble
Speaker 5: and waffle for a bit and then I'm going to
Speaker 5: have to leave. I'm sorry, I'm very very ill. And
Speaker 5: so I just started talking about this, that and the
Speaker 5: next thing, and at some point I said, what is
Speaker 5: clear is that violence, widespread violence, will break out in
Speaker 5: the USA in the very near future. After the speech,
Speaker 5: I was invited up to somebody's hotel room. The event
Speaker 5: took place in a hotel, and this very distinguished gentleman said,
Speaker 5: why don't you come up and have a chat with
Speaker 5: me and my friend. I said, oh, what a privilege,
Speaker 5: what a lovely invitation. And I went up and here
Speaker 5: and his friend were chatting, and I sat and listened
Speaker 5: to their wise words. And at some point the friend,
Speaker 5: again a very very distinguished gentleman, looked up at me
Speaker 5: from under his eyebrows like that and told me how
Speaker 5: he was, how offended he was, or how much he
Speaker 5: disagreed anyway with my allegation that there would be widespread
Speaker 5: violence in the USA in the foreseeable future. Three months later,
Speaker 5: the Portland Riots broke out. Five people from this audience.
Speaker 5: After the Portland Riot broke out three months later, they
Speaker 5: sent me messages saying, how my name is fred I
Speaker 5: was in the audience, blah blah blah. I got your
Speaker 5: number from Joe Hope. You don't mind me sending you
Speaker 5: a message? How did you know? We're not gurus, we
Speaker 5: don't have some special gift pet but we've kind of
Speaker 5: watched this movie before, and we know how society breaks up.
Speaker 5: We know how society fractures, how schisms form overnight in society.
Speaker 5: And it was apparent to me, having spent a lot
Speaker 5: of time in the USA in twenty seventeen, eighteen, and nineteen,
Speaker 5: that there were certain levels of tension that were absolutely irremediable,
Speaker 5: They couldn't be remedied, and they were at one another.
Speaker 5: They were at one another in the newspapers, and they
Speaker 5: were at one another. Given a speech a few months
Speaker 5: before in Tennessee at which there were three hundred protesters
Speaker 5: going berserk. All these best swimming I'm sorry to say.
Speaker 5: I mean, you know, God made them. Far be it
Speaker 5: from me, but not only a beast generally ugly with
Speaker 5: purple hair and rings through their eyeballs, and who knows
Speaker 5: where else screamy shut here. And one guy standing next
Speaker 5: to me there was a police court, a huge police
Speaker 5: cordon that one guy standing next to me said, you
Speaker 5: know that they're here for you, don't you know? I
Speaker 5: looked at it in astonishment. You're joking, said yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 5: he said. The other speakers, you know they wouldn't be here.
Speaker 5: The point is that we when there's that level of hatred,
Speaker 5: the three hundred people come to a hotel to throw
Speaker 5: bricks and glass bottles and to wallow in their filthy obesity,
Speaker 5: and before your very eyes, to prove a point. It's
Speaker 5: it's difficult to turn the clock backwards. It's difficult for
Speaker 5: that thing to kind of go away. What tends to
Speaker 5: happen is that it matures and festers and eventually begins
Speaker 5: to suppurate, like an over developed boil or not to
Speaker 5: be common, but it's some kind of pimple that hasn't
Speaker 5: been attended as it should have been. It doesn't just
Speaker 5: magically disappear. And we believe the same of South Africa.
Speaker 5: We believe that the degree and the extent of the
Speaker 5: crisis in South Africa now is such that it can't
Speaker 5: be fixed. In twenty sixteen, Tuesday, Tuesday, the sixth of November,
Speaker 5: if I'm not mistaken, maybe no, maybe perhaps it was
Speaker 5: a Thursday. I'll forget. The leader of our Marxist political party,
Speaker 5: Julius Malema, famously said I'm not calling for the slaughter
Speaker 5: of all whites, at least for now. I think that
Speaker 5: was verbate and what he said, and he's repeated that
Speaker 5: many times since. And at the thirteenth birthday celebrations of
Speaker 5: that political party, the Economic Freedom Fighters this year in
Speaker 5: the famous FNB Stadium in Soweto, Johannesburg, before one hundred
Speaker 5: thousand people. And there's a reason why, I, as a
Speaker 5: longtime projects manager for very huge events, can tell you
Speaker 5: with some authority that the number was almost certainly one
Speaker 5: hundred thousand people. Before one hundred thousand people sang the
Speaker 5: song kill the Farmer, Kill the Boer for the umpteenth time.
Speaker 5: It's highly provocative and on the second of June of
Speaker 5: this year, our President, while speaking as the guest of
Speaker 5: honor or the main speaker at the annual conference of
Speaker 5: the African National Congress Youth League, said it may be
Speaker 5: that in the near future we are not able to
Speaker 5: hold on to power, and we will require you to
Speaker 5: become the militant youth, such as the Youth League, the
Speaker 5: youth of the African National Congress of the fifties, sixty
Speaker 5: seventies and eighties. And he went on, and what he
Speaker 5: was saying is that our polling figures for next year's elections,
Speaker 5: there will be an election on roughly the twenty seventh
Speaker 5: of April next year. The precise date is not yet appointed.
Speaker 5: If we've what he was alluding to is the fact
Speaker 5: that in recent months has come out at the ANC
Speaker 5: for the first time has ever has significantly less than
Speaker 5: fifty percent of the vote, perhaps as low as thirty five,
Speaker 5: thirty six percent or will get You're saying that if
Speaker 5: we do not win the elections, we're going to have
Speaker 5: a proper revolution his words, not mine. In other words,
Speaker 5: a real, actual, violent Marxist Leninist revolution. And we sat
Speaker 5: Landers believe that that has been that writing has been
Speaker 5: on the wall since forever. The fact that the mainstream
Speaker 5: media can only see it now and report it now,
Speaker 5: and the fact that academia is only now obliged by
Speaker 5: the latency of it, the conspicuousness of it, the undeniability
Speaker 5: of it, to acknowledge it doesn't mean that it hasn't
Speaker 5: been there. It has been there since forever.
Speaker 7: It was always just a matter of time before the
Speaker 7: new South Africa Rainbow Nation.
Speaker 5: Became very much less tenable than the world believed and
Speaker 5: proclaimed it to be in the late eighties, the early
Speaker 5: nineties and nineteen ninety four. In the late eighties and
Speaker 5: early nineties, you will remember all across the world there
Speaker 5: was a chorus of praise for how wonderful Nelson Mandela was,
Speaker 5: and how great an anc government would be, and how
Speaker 5: the wind would blow better, and our hair would blow
Speaker 5: better in the wind, and the daisies would smell nicer,
Speaker 5: and the money would grow on the trees more abundantly,
Speaker 5: and these, you know, hopelessly unrealistic superlatives that were used
Speaker 5: to describe the idol, the idyll that would be the
Speaker 5: new South Africa Rainbow Nation. And for a long time
Speaker 5: people like myself and our leader, mister Gustaf Mala, the
Speaker 5: founder of our organization. I'm merely his employee, have said,
Speaker 5: you know what, this is not right, is not right.
Speaker 5: You know, the murder rate in the USA is roughly
Speaker 5: five per one hundred thousand per year. Five people of
Speaker 5: every one hundred thousand are killed in intentional homicide, as
Speaker 5: the United Nations calls it. Every year. In South Africa
Speaker 5: it's thirty nine thirty eight point something. The USA is
Speaker 5: supposed to be this gun mad, blood lusting society. You
Speaker 5: guys haven't a clue. In fact, you don't try very
Speaker 5: hard at all. Your desire to butcher somebody and drink
Speaker 5: their blood, your desire to cut open a woman, or
Speaker 5: to murder a child, or to savagely slaughter an elderly person,
Speaker 5: is I would say, decidedly tepid. You are lukewarm, Pete.
Speaker 5: And it seems to me that you're given a great
Speaker 5: deal of credit for something that you're not actually doing,
Speaker 5: and you should perhaps make a little bit more effort
Speaker 5: if you wish to deserve the credit that you have
Speaker 5: in the whole effing world for being the most bloodthirsty
Speaker 5: people ever born. Going by the amount of attention that
Speaker 5: is given to the USA and every shooting and every
Speaker 5: murder and every FBI file and the top ten wanted
Speaker 5: and all these stupid programs that you thrust down the
Speaker 5: throats of national broadcasters all around the entire world, that
Speaker 5: we all have to watch your crap. You should put
Speaker 5: in a little bit more effort, because it seems that
Speaker 5: your your claim to fame is very much exaggerated. On
Speaker 5: the other hand, know a thing or two about murder, rape,
Speaker 5: the butchery of children and so on. And you know,
Speaker 5: I'm being facetious and sarcastic now, and it's not very
Speaker 5: classy of me, but that's that's the way that it is.
Speaker 5: You know, we hear people waffling on and on about
Speaker 5: the ANC and I mean a bigger part the USA
Speaker 5: and the Second Amendment and all of this crap, and
Speaker 5: we think to ourselves, you have in a flipping clue,
Speaker 5: come come to the country that you insisted was going
Speaker 5: to be the bit because it was principally American politicians
Speaker 5: above all others, and American media that really like feeding
Speaker 5: a goose, force feeding a goose to make pate fois gras,
Speaker 5: that force fed the world the narrative of the unimpeachable
Speaker 5: and impeccable nature of the of the African National Congress
Speaker 5: and the fourth coming New South Africa, Rainbow Nation, New
Speaker 5: South Africa Rainbow Nation years. So come and have a look,
Speaker 5: and then you tell.
Speaker 1: Me, well, you had mentioned that you believe that the
Speaker 1: twenty twenty one violence which took it's recorded three hundred
Speaker 1: and fifty four deaths in those riots. Our riots in
Speaker 1: twenty twenty took ten percent of that. I would say
Speaker 1: that if they are gearing up for that kind of
Speaker 1: revolution in this country, we're probably looking for something similar
Speaker 1: to what you experienced in twenty twenty one before the
Speaker 1: whole big thing kicks off. If they try, I mean
Speaker 1: it's a little harder. I think it's a little harder
Speaker 1: here because the country's so big and it's so spread out.
Speaker 1: We have federalism, a lot of states have different laws,
Speaker 1: things like that. But it does look like that there
Speaker 1: could be full sections of the country that could fall
Speaker 1: into exactly what you what you described and even worse
Speaker 1: than what you're expecting in the future.
Speaker 5: Yeah, there's no question about it. The you can't reconcile
Speaker 5: the United States of America to itself. The inherent contradictions
Speaker 5: are just so great that there's no fixing what you
Speaker 5: have now, Pete. I'm not saying that the United States
Speaker 5: is going to evolve into civil war the day after tomorrow.
Speaker 5: And even if I was saying that, I would I
Speaker 5: would say the United States is going to devolve into
Speaker 5: civil war the day after tomorrow. But I don't think
Speaker 5: it's going to be bad, you know. So I'm not
Speaker 5: saying that it's going to be it's going to happen soon,
Speaker 5: or even that it's going to be the worst of
Speaker 5: the worst of the worst. But I am saying that
Speaker 5: as time goes by, this crisis of of self hatred
Speaker 5: for want of a better expression, I'll try to think
Speaker 5: of a better phrase, shall become more and more and
Speaker 5: more intractable. It will become more and more difficult to
Speaker 5: turn the clock back to the day before the Roe
Speaker 5: versus Wade decision in nineteen seventy two. It will become
Speaker 5: more and more difficult to turn the clock back to
Speaker 5: the day before the series of legal decisions in US
Speaker 5: courts of the late eighties and early nineties that have
Speaker 5: set the precedent for the divorce laws that obtain in
Speaker 5: the USA. Now it will become more and more difficult
Speaker 5: for you to turn the clock back to the days
Speaker 5: before blatant lesbian, gay whatever you lg X y Z,
Speaker 5: whatever it's called being almost or in some cases foisted
Speaker 5: upon children. That is not going to happen. Real life,
Speaker 5: in the real world doesn't work like that. So the
Speaker 5: likelihood is that this schism will continue, will continue to rupture,
Speaker 5: and in so doing rupture more severely, and eventually it's
Speaker 5: going to lead to a major event in the USA.
Speaker 5: And I'm not qualified. I'm not clairvoyant, you know, so
Speaker 5: I'm not qualified to say exactly what is but what
Speaker 5: it is. But let me put it to you this way.
Speaker 5: The US national debt seven years ago two thousand and
Speaker 5: twenty three minus seven will be twenty and sixteen. The
Speaker 5: US national debt was nineteen point eight trillion dollars, so
Speaker 5: between seventeen seventy six. I know that Americans celebrate the
Speaker 5: fourth of July, but the last signatory, the last signatures
Speaker 5: to the document were in October of seventeen seventy six,
Speaker 5: So from October seventeen seventy six, when the Republic was
Speaker 5: properly implemented, until two thy and sixteen. Through World wars,
Speaker 5: through civil wars, through everything, the USA was only able
Speaker 5: to rack up a debt of nineteen point of nineteen
Speaker 5: point eight trillion dollars in seven years. You've taken that
Speaker 5: to over thirty three trillion dollars, So fourteen trillion dollars
Speaker 5: versus nineteen trillion dollars in seven years versus seventeen seventy
Speaker 5: six to twenty four, so two hundred and twenty four
Speaker 5: and sixteen would be two hundred and forty years, two
Speaker 5: hundred and forty years versus beat. It's bad and Americans
Speaker 5: can't see it. And I suspect that's what's going to happen,
Speaker 5: is that somebody of a conservative bent is going to
Speaker 5: say that the madness that reigns in the White House now,
Speaker 5: or in US government, or in the Treasury, if you like,
Speaker 5: or in the Federal Reserve, or in whatever point your
Speaker 5: finger at whichever blemish, whichever flaw on me appeals to
Speaker 5: you the most. If I'm the body corporate of the
Speaker 5: United States of America, you know what thing do you
Speaker 5: hate the most? Point your finger that that is enough
Speaker 5: to justify something absolutely radical and drastic. I'm not saying
Speaker 5: that there's going to be a coup uitar, I am
Speaker 5: saying that at some point somebody's going to say, well,
Speaker 5: it's now been, you know, since twenty sixteen, it's now
Speaker 5: been let's say, not seven years, it's ten years. And
Speaker 5: the debt has gone from nineteen point eight trillion dollars
Speaker 5: to sixty four whatever number. You know. Now a coup
Speaker 5: is warranted. Now the setting off of a bomb is warranted.
Speaker 5: Now we can get drastic and radical. What I'm saying
Speaker 5: without trying to be overly specific, because I don't I'm
Speaker 5: not clever, where is that things can't deteriorate this drastically,
Speaker 5: this radically as they have, as we've all witnessed over
Speaker 5: recent years, without sooner or later there being some kind
Speaker 5: of a huge reaction, some real pushback. And because the
Speaker 5: positions are so irreconciled, it's going to precipitate a terminal crisis.
Speaker 5: So let's say my wife and I I'm not married.
Speaker 5: I am, to my eternal regret, a bachelor. But let's
Speaker 5: say I was married and my wife and I had
Speaker 5: an ongoing dispute, and let's say I was goading her,
Speaker 5: antagonizing her, giving her a hard time, and eventually one
Speaker 5: day she turns around and she does something. All right,
Speaker 5: that's one thing. She loses her temperature, gets it. But
Speaker 5: just imagine that I'd done something that had betrayed her
Speaker 5: trust forever and ever and ever and ever, and in
Speaker 5: that context I was needling her and she retaliated. She
Speaker 5: would probably retaliate with her and maybe stab me or
Speaker 5: cyanide or you know, in my sleep, shoot me or something.
Speaker 5: You know, what I'm saying is that it's one thing
Speaker 5: to have a schism. It's another thing when the two
Speaker 5: parties cannot in any way be reconciled. Because you cannot
Speaker 5: reconcile LGBTQ two core America to the core values of America.
Speaker 5: You cannot reconcile a thirty three trillion dollar debt to
Speaker 5: the traditional pecuniousness that the traditional economical very wise with
Speaker 5: money nature of US government. You cannot reconcile. The parties
Speaker 5: are just so far out from one another that when
Speaker 5: they do clash, they are going to clash in a
Speaker 5: terminal manner. And I think that that's now absolutely inevitable.
Speaker 5: You can't fix you can't fix the stolen election of
Speaker 5: twenty twenty. You can't fix these, the biolabs in eastern Ukraine.
Speaker 5: You can't undo that. You can't undo COVID and the
Speaker 5: clot shots and the adversary actions. You can't undo the
Speaker 5: assault on God. You can't undo. Would you believe me?
Speaker 5: I read a figure? In fact, I went through the
Speaker 5: table of figures, the official figures today before this interview,
Speaker 5: just for no particular reason. Would you believe me if
Speaker 5: I told you that the number of immigrants illegal immigrants
Speaker 5: only to the USA in this year alone is greater
Speaker 5: than the populations of thirty nine of the fifty states
Speaker 5: of the USA. It's unfixable, Pete, don't fix that. You
Speaker 5: don't get to fix that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, tell everybody where they can, remind everybody where
Speaker 1: they can find more about your work and whatever, what
Speaker 1: anybody can do.
Speaker 5: Oh, thank you very much, Pete, thank you for having
Speaker 5: Sat Lunders on your show. We appreciate the opportunity. I
Speaker 5: hope that the video is well watched. Please send me
Speaker 5: a link and I'll distribute it in South Africa. Although
Speaker 5: I should forewarn you that the overwhelming majority of our
Speaker 5: people do not speak English, well, it's not their first language,
Speaker 5: so that the audience is not big for English products.
Speaker 5: People are welcome to visit satlanders dot org. That's s
Speaker 5: U I d Landers dot org and if they would
Speaker 5: like to make a contribution, if they'd like to assist
Speaker 5: us in the work that we're doing. We are really
Speaker 5: standing in the breach. We are boxing above our wait.
Speaker 5: We are standard bearers worldwide for the conservative Caucasian Christian cause.
Speaker 5: You can look up the speech that I gave in
Speaker 5: the European Parliament and many other many, many hundreds of
Speaker 5: other interviews Alex Jones, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, BBC,
Speaker 5: CNN Russia Today to see the work that we're doing.
Speaker 5: And if that impresses you, please be so kind as
Speaker 5: to make a donation satlanders dot org. Do you just
Speaker 5: enter there and go to the bottom of the page.
Speaker 5: You'll see where you can make a donation. Thank you
Speaker 5: very much for watching this video. I hope that I
Speaker 5: wasn't too long winded, and I hope that you thoroughly
Speaker 5: enjoyed it. And thank you too, Pete very much.
Speaker 1: No prom ad all. Thank you, and I'll make sure
Speaker 1: to link to that in the show notes so people
Speaker 1: can get to it. Very easily. Thank you, Samon, thank you,