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True Murder with your host, 30 00:01:30.920 --> 00:01:33.439 journalist and author Dan Zupanski. 31 00:01:42.680 --> 00:01:43.239 Good evening. 32 00:01:43.719 --> 00:01:47.319 On a cold, windy December night in nineteen twenty six, 33 00:01:47.560 --> 00:01:50.959 Hell was unleashed on a tenant farm near Farwell, the 34 00:01:51.079 --> 00:01:54.680 last Texas town before the New Mexico Border. Thrown to 35 00:01:54.760 --> 00:01:57.760 the bottle in fits of rage, the burly man with 36 00:01:57.840 --> 00:02:00.760 the smiling blue eyes was in no mo to quarrel 37 00:02:00.799 --> 00:02:04.159 with his third wife over his bootleg whiskey and sexual 38 00:02:04.200 --> 00:02:07.599 abuse of his stepdaughter. He went from room to room 39 00:02:07.599 --> 00:02:10.120 in the house, killing his wife and each child with 40 00:02:10.199 --> 00:02:13.680 primitive cutting tools and his bare hands. By the time 41 00:02:13.719 --> 00:02:16.360 he concluded his bloody work, he had taken the lives 42 00:02:16.400 --> 00:02:19.439 of nine family members, raging in age from two to 43 00:02:19.520 --> 00:02:23.199 forty one, committing what one local reporter called the blackest 44 00:02:23.240 --> 00:02:29.599 crime in the history of the West Texas Panhandle. Husband, father, uncle, Embsler, Syria, 45 00:02:29.960 --> 00:02:35.879 mass murderer, philanderer, child molester, convict, and military deserter. George 46 00:02:35.960 --> 00:02:39.759 Jefferson Hassel was many things to many people, most of 47 00:02:39.800 --> 00:02:44.280 them bad. His pattern of familicide crime had begun in 48 00:02:44.400 --> 00:02:48.000 nineteen seventeen, when he slaughtered his common law wife and 49 00:02:48.039 --> 00:02:52.199 her three kids in Whittier, California. Later, in Texas, he 50 00:02:52.240 --> 00:02:56.120 married his brother's wife and became stepfather to her eight children. 51 00:02:56.560 --> 00:03:00.400 Using Hassel's confessions and as many interviews with reporters as 52 00:03:00.439 --> 00:03:03.840 well as the trial transcripts and reminiscences of those who 53 00:03:03.919 --> 00:03:08.400 cross paths with him in Texas, Oklahoma, and California, Mitchell p. 54 00:03:08.680 --> 00:03:12.319 Roth presents the first comprehensive account of the life and 55 00:03:12.360 --> 00:03:16.000 crimes of one of the least known multiple murderers in Texas, 56 00:03:16.319 --> 00:03:21.360 let alone American history. Roth situates hassel saga within the 57 00:03:21.439 --> 00:03:25.759 nineteen twenties Texas criminal justice system, including the death penalty 58 00:03:26.240 --> 00:03:30.520 which Hassel ultimately received from Old Sparky the Electric Chair 59 00:03:30.759 --> 00:03:34.000 at Huntsville. The book that we're featuring this evening is 60 00:03:34.400 --> 00:03:37.479 The Man with the Killer Smile, The Life and Crimes 61 00:03:37.520 --> 00:03:40.800 of a serial mass murderer, with my special guest, journalist 62 00:03:40.840 --> 00:03:45.360 and author and professor of Criminal Justice and Criminology, Mitchell P. Roth, 63 00:03:45.479 --> 00:03:47.680 Welcome to the program, and thank you so much for 64 00:03:47.719 --> 00:03:48.280 this interview. 65 00:03:48.400 --> 00:03:51.199 Well, thank you for having me. Thanks, thank you so much. 66 00:03:51.639 --> 00:03:55.319 First off, tell us how you came to be the 67 00:03:55.360 --> 00:03:56.840 author of this book. 68 00:03:57.000 --> 00:03:59.680 Well, as it turns out, one of my favorite courses 69 00:03:59.719 --> 00:04:02.879 to two each has been on murder, serial homicide, and 70 00:04:02.960 --> 00:04:06.719 mass murder. And in my early years teaching, I had 71 00:04:06.759 --> 00:04:09.039 a young man come up to me after class and 72 00:04:09.080 --> 00:04:12.080 tell me that he was related to somebody that was 73 00:04:12.120 --> 00:04:15.520 the fifth white person to be electrocuted in Texas and 74 00:04:15.680 --> 00:04:18.800 had committed mass murder. And I don't think he really 75 00:04:18.879 --> 00:04:21.319 knew a whole lot about what he did, but it 76 00:04:21.360 --> 00:04:24.639 piqued my interest because I had never heard of this person, 77 00:04:24.680 --> 00:04:28.600 and I consider myself an expert relatively on all the 78 00:04:28.639 --> 00:04:31.839 you know, major serial killers and mass murders. In any case, 79 00:04:31.879 --> 00:04:34.959 I asked him if he had any records or family documents, 80 00:04:35.079 --> 00:04:37.439 because a lot of people come up with these, you know, 81 00:04:37.519 --> 00:04:40.720 stories and can't document them. And it turns out he did, 82 00:04:41.040 --> 00:04:43.720 and he was kind enough to make a copy of 83 00:04:43.759 --> 00:04:46.879 what had been gathered by his family members who had 84 00:04:46.879 --> 00:04:50.519 gone up to the Panhandle in the nineteen eighties, interviewed 85 00:04:50.560 --> 00:04:55.040 some of the last surviving jors and witnesses, and you know, 86 00:04:55.160 --> 00:04:58.480 basically had put it into this very short family manuscript. 87 00:04:58.959 --> 00:05:01.360 So anyway, I held on too it because I had 88 00:05:01.360 --> 00:05:03.759 a lot of other book projects going, and I kept 89 00:05:03.759 --> 00:05:05.680 telling myself, this is going to be my next book, 90 00:05:05.720 --> 00:05:07.439 this is going to be my next book. I finally 91 00:05:07.560 --> 00:05:10.160 got to the point about three years ago, right before 92 00:05:10.399 --> 00:05:13.800 COVID outbreak, that had time to go up to the 93 00:05:13.839 --> 00:05:16.240 area that his family had been to and look for 94 00:05:16.319 --> 00:05:20.000 court transcripts and go to all the spots and start 95 00:05:20.040 --> 00:05:23.839 documenting it all for myself and going full throttle on 96 00:05:24.160 --> 00:05:27.839 writing this book. And as a result, I found a 97 00:05:27.839 --> 00:05:30.839 lot of interesting facts. I found a lot of interesting 98 00:05:30.920 --> 00:05:35.399 inaccuracies in the family manuscript. And as I went on 99 00:05:35.519 --> 00:05:38.959 and on and did further research, which entailed lots of 100 00:05:39.040 --> 00:05:43.120 newspapers from around the country, entailed you know, even some 101 00:05:43.439 --> 00:05:47.560 pulp nonfiction, you know, detective magazines from the time period, 102 00:05:47.839 --> 00:05:52.399 as well as using archives in Austin, Texas State Library 103 00:05:52.800 --> 00:05:56.759 and in Huntsville the Texas Prison Museum. So I was 104 00:05:56.800 --> 00:05:59.360 able to cobble together the story of a guy who 105 00:05:59.399 --> 00:06:02.079 didn't leave my to a pay per trail. He was. 106 00:06:02.319 --> 00:06:05.959 He was uneducated, but very smart, very cunning, and what 107 00:06:06.079 --> 00:06:08.720 we know about him, most of it comes from him. 108 00:06:08.920 --> 00:06:11.639 So whenever that happens, you need to go look at 109 00:06:11.639 --> 00:06:15.399 the ancestor record. You need to go try and you know, 110 00:06:15.480 --> 00:06:18.439 find birth records, family records and all of that. And 111 00:06:18.879 --> 00:06:21.199 apparently there weren't many people in his family that were 112 00:06:21.199 --> 00:06:23.759 proud of him, and he kind of was lost to history. 113 00:06:23.920 --> 00:06:27.600 And I have a huge true crime library at my office, 114 00:06:27.639 --> 00:06:30.680 at home and at school, and I've never come across 115 00:06:30.720 --> 00:06:33.959 his name, which I'm kind of surprised since he's had 116 00:06:34.000 --> 00:06:37.399 He had thirteen victims in total, and that's at least 117 00:06:37.600 --> 00:06:40.639 thirteen when you consider, you know, other killers. 118 00:06:41.160 --> 00:06:44.120 Now, let's talk about the early years, as you call it. 119 00:06:44.199 --> 00:06:47.519 He's the youngest of seven children, and his mother is 120 00:06:47.879 --> 00:06:52.240 Martha Jane Stovell and his father is James William Hassel. 121 00:06:52.519 --> 00:06:56.800 So tell us where they resided and where their background was, 122 00:06:56.879 --> 00:06:59.600 and a little bit about what you could cobble together 123 00:06:59.639 --> 00:07:01.199 about his early life. 124 00:07:01.399 --> 00:07:04.319 Well, the family, mostly his immediate family was in the 125 00:07:04.360 --> 00:07:09.399 Fort Worth, southern Oklahoma area, just north of the Texas border, 126 00:07:09.560 --> 00:07:12.639 and he came from a long line of people that 127 00:07:12.759 --> 00:07:16.600 work pretty much agricultural jobs, farming and that sort of thing. 128 00:07:16.879 --> 00:07:19.360 And it went as far back as I could where 129 00:07:19.399 --> 00:07:23.000 I could find information, and found probably the person that 130 00:07:23.120 --> 00:07:24.959 he probably got a lot of his traits from. It 131 00:07:25.040 --> 00:07:27.759 might have been a grandfather who had been a familiar 132 00:07:27.759 --> 00:07:30.720 presence in the court system in another part of Texas 133 00:07:30.759 --> 00:07:34.040 for arson and some other things, but nothing as nefarious 134 00:07:34.079 --> 00:07:37.199 as what he did. And you know, the most interesting 135 00:07:37.279 --> 00:07:40.399 things I found was that almost every account of the 136 00:07:40.519 --> 00:07:45.160 story has his father being poisoned by a second wife 137 00:07:45.199 --> 00:07:48.079 and him deciding in his young teens to go and 138 00:07:48.160 --> 00:07:51.040 kill that family. And he admitted this was his first 139 00:07:51.079 --> 00:07:55.480 impulse to commit this type of crime, killing a whole family. Well, 140 00:07:55.639 --> 00:07:58.560 you know, it turns out, looking through ancestry dot com 141 00:07:58.839 --> 00:08:02.480 and other sites, the parents didn't die when when he 142 00:08:02.519 --> 00:08:05.279 said they did. He wasn't out on his own as 143 00:08:05.319 --> 00:08:08.560 early as he said he was, and he didn't commit 144 00:08:08.800 --> 00:08:12.439 any murders before as far as we know, I should say, 145 00:08:12.600 --> 00:08:16.759 his nineteen seventeen slaughter of his you know, first family. 146 00:08:17.319 --> 00:08:21.639 But you do talk and do have some substantiation of 147 00:08:21.839 --> 00:08:26.120 his earliest criminal career, So you talk about in in 148 00:08:26.199 --> 00:08:29.839 nineteen oh seven he was indicted for embezzling fifty dollars 149 00:08:29.879 --> 00:08:33.279 from his employers. Now, tell us about a little bit 150 00:08:33.320 --> 00:08:36.200 about his early criminal career and where he ends up 151 00:08:36.240 --> 00:08:37.960 and how much time does he do. 152 00:08:38.480 --> 00:08:40.960 Tell us about the results. Well, he ended up he 153 00:08:41.039 --> 00:08:43.879 was working for a guy that had a gin mill 154 00:08:44.279 --> 00:08:47.320 up in the Fort Worth area named sid Ross, and 155 00:08:47.639 --> 00:08:50.399 he became kind of a mentor. I'm sure he wouldn't 156 00:08:50.399 --> 00:08:52.799 be going to be called a mentor after what happened 157 00:08:52.840 --> 00:08:55.840 with his life. But he, you know, basically gave you know, 158 00:08:55.960 --> 00:08:59.639 George Hassel, you know, advice, gave him a job and 159 00:09:00.080 --> 00:09:03.559 unfortunately gave him some responsibility which entailed, you know, going 160 00:09:03.600 --> 00:09:08.159 into town to deliver you know, some cotton and you know, 161 00:09:08.200 --> 00:09:10.720 do some trading. And he had some money that he 162 00:09:10.919 --> 00:09:13.240 ended up, he claimed. George claimed that he fell in 163 00:09:13.320 --> 00:09:15.759 with some bad ombres and they spent it all. And 164 00:09:15.799 --> 00:09:18.559 of course that was the story of his life, deflecting 165 00:09:18.840 --> 00:09:21.279 his bad behavior on other people as well. But in 166 00:09:21.320 --> 00:09:24.840 any case, he ended up getting arrested for embezzlement. He 167 00:09:24.879 --> 00:09:28.679 was about seventeen years old at the time and pushing eighteen, 168 00:09:29.080 --> 00:09:32.720 and he was sentenced to two years in prison. And 169 00:09:32.879 --> 00:09:35.320 what this meant at that time was serving this a 170 00:09:35.360 --> 00:09:38.399 time in the different prison farm units in the Texas 171 00:09:38.440 --> 00:09:43.320 criminal justice system, and you know these have had, you know, terrible, 172 00:09:43.679 --> 00:09:47.720 justly terrible reputations over the years, and you know, he 173 00:09:47.840 --> 00:09:50.279 documents some of the things that happened to him. I 174 00:09:50.360 --> 00:09:52.759 was very lucky and that I was able to find 175 00:09:52.960 --> 00:09:57.120 his records in the Texas State Library of what farms 176 00:09:57.159 --> 00:09:59.799 he worked on, and I was able to figure out 177 00:09:59.799 --> 00:10:02.679 what his tasks were. And you know, when he talked 178 00:10:02.720 --> 00:10:04.879 about what he had to do, whether it was working 179 00:10:04.879 --> 00:10:08.759 on a turpentine farm or cutting sugarcane at these different places, 180 00:10:08.960 --> 00:10:10.799 you know, this was some of the information I could 181 00:10:10.919 --> 00:10:13.919 actually validate. But you know it was for very short 182 00:10:13.960 --> 00:10:16.440 periods at each but enough to give you a taste 183 00:10:16.480 --> 00:10:18.080 of Texas justice. 184 00:10:18.200 --> 00:10:21.600 You say that he was released in March nineteen oh 185 00:10:21.720 --> 00:10:26.120 nine and he saw a recruitment sign. Men wanted tell 186 00:10:26.200 --> 00:10:28.639 us what he does, what decision he makes at that time. 187 00:10:28.799 --> 00:10:31.279 Well, he was, like many of his ilk, hit poor 188 00:10:31.320 --> 00:10:34.159 impulse control, and he would often, you know, make decisions 189 00:10:34.159 --> 00:10:36.639 and then think about it later. And in this case, 190 00:10:36.759 --> 00:10:39.519 he thought about joining the military might be a good job. 191 00:10:39.879 --> 00:10:42.519 And he doesn't really go into a lot of detail, 192 00:10:42.600 --> 00:10:47.399 but apparently he joined and apparently he deserted several days later, 193 00:10:47.799 --> 00:10:50.679 as you know many people have done in the military, 194 00:10:50.759 --> 00:10:53.679 but you know, he becomes a serial deserter essentially. You 195 00:10:53.720 --> 00:10:54.000 say that. 196 00:10:54.159 --> 00:10:56.600 Right after that, he goes and looks for a job. 197 00:10:56.759 --> 00:10:59.399 So he goes to who and asks for a job 198 00:10:59.559 --> 00:11:00.000 once again. 199 00:11:00.600 --> 00:11:03.559 Well, he goes back to sid Ross thinking that, you know, 200 00:11:04.120 --> 00:11:06.399 you know, perhaps that he'd done his penance and all 201 00:11:06.440 --> 00:11:09.440 of that, and sid Ross actually gave him another chance, 202 00:11:09.840 --> 00:11:12.279 kind of a forgiving type of guy, it seems, and 203 00:11:12.559 --> 00:11:15.720 he helped set George up on his own farm with 204 00:11:15.799 --> 00:11:19.000 an agreement that they would split some of the profits. 205 00:11:19.759 --> 00:11:23.600 George also got married. He met a young lady. And 206 00:11:23.840 --> 00:11:27.399 what's interesting is during this time is sid Ross's employer. 207 00:11:27.519 --> 00:11:31.200 Evidently he knew the family of the woman that he married, 208 00:11:31.399 --> 00:11:35.039 and he also was familiar with George's sister, who was 209 00:11:35.080 --> 00:11:37.720 often kind of his only family member to give him 210 00:11:37.759 --> 00:11:43.559 any type of sage advice. And anyway, ultimately George did 211 00:11:43.600 --> 00:11:46.360 everything he could to kind of make sure that this 212 00:11:46.440 --> 00:11:49.440 situation didn't work, and he ended up leaving to find 213 00:11:49.720 --> 00:11:53.559 a job somewhere else, leaving the farm and eventually as 214 00:11:53.600 --> 00:11:57.240 he claimed, leaving his wife and child, even though he 215 00:11:57.279 --> 00:11:59.320 claims there was an agreement for them to kind of 216 00:11:59.320 --> 00:12:01.840 separate and they would get back together, but once he 217 00:12:01.919 --> 00:12:03.320 found a job, You right. 218 00:12:03.240 --> 00:12:07.200 Though, that in truth they were they saw his abusive nature, 219 00:12:07.360 --> 00:12:11.519 and mother and child took off to their family. And meanwhile, 220 00:12:11.559 --> 00:12:15.080 the family had always thought he was either knew he 221 00:12:15.200 --> 00:12:19.720 was either a freshly released con or just was more 222 00:12:19.799 --> 00:12:23.320 suspicious of him in general and tried to dissuade their 223 00:12:23.440 --> 00:12:25.559 daughter from being with them in the first place. 224 00:12:25.600 --> 00:12:28.399 Well, the interesting thing is that we know probably less 225 00:12:28.440 --> 00:12:31.720 about this wife than any of the other women that 226 00:12:31.799 --> 00:12:34.559 played a central role in his life. And anyway, he 227 00:12:34.639 --> 00:12:36.960 talks about her the most, that she was the love 228 00:12:37.000 --> 00:12:40.080 of his life, and that you know, they communicated by 229 00:12:40.159 --> 00:12:42.679 letter once a week, and then she stopped writing, and 230 00:12:42.720 --> 00:12:44.720 he blamed it all in the family that knew he 231 00:12:44.799 --> 00:12:48.240 had been recently released ex con and didn't want him 232 00:12:48.240 --> 00:12:50.600 married to her. Well, in any case, you know, he 233 00:12:50.679 --> 00:12:53.759 acted like she left him and kind of hit out 234 00:12:53.759 --> 00:12:56.759 from him, and you know, really destroyed his ego and 235 00:12:56.799 --> 00:12:59.799 his life. And I bought into this, you know, not 236 00:12:59.840 --> 00:13:02.519 to get too far ahead on my research or whatever, 237 00:13:02.559 --> 00:13:05.080 but I bought into this until the very end. And 238 00:13:05.159 --> 00:13:08.399 I found a letter written forty years after his death 239 00:13:08.600 --> 00:13:13.360 by his only biological son, by his wife. And you know, 240 00:13:13.480 --> 00:13:16.559 in the letter he had written to the Texas Department 241 00:13:16.559 --> 00:13:19.759 of Public Safety saying he wanted to get information on 242 00:13:19.799 --> 00:13:22.559 his father. He didn't know a lot about him, and 243 00:13:23.440 --> 00:13:27.000 so anyway, he said the reason they left was because 244 00:13:27.039 --> 00:13:29.279 they were afraid he was going to kill them. And 245 00:13:29.519 --> 00:13:31.919 this was right before I turned my manuscript in, and 246 00:13:31.960 --> 00:13:34.480 this kind of filled in a nice big gap there, 247 00:13:34.559 --> 00:13:37.080 showing that you know from the very beginning that he 248 00:13:37.200 --> 00:13:40.240 was a familicidal type of you know, individual. 249 00:13:40.440 --> 00:13:43.919 Absolutely after this, you write that he enlistened to Navy 250 00:13:43.919 --> 00:13:47.240 in San Francisco under his real name, and because he 251 00:13:47.320 --> 00:13:51.200 feared his earlier desertion from the army under his mom's 252 00:13:51.240 --> 00:13:55.240 maiden name, George Stowell could be revealed through fingerprints. What 253 00:13:55.399 --> 00:13:57.679 happens as a result of this plan of his. 254 00:13:57.799 --> 00:14:01.559 Well, he, as I said, he probably joined the Navy 255 00:14:01.679 --> 00:14:04.039 up in that area. Was that's you know, he was 256 00:14:04.080 --> 00:14:07.080 in California around this time and looking at you know, 257 00:14:07.120 --> 00:14:10.600 where the bases were and all that. And he deserted 258 00:14:10.759 --> 00:14:13.519 shortly after that as well. And you know, one of 259 00:14:13.559 --> 00:14:17.519 the problems with his desertion record is I couldn't find 260 00:14:17.600 --> 00:14:20.679 any of it in the military records, and I couldn't 261 00:14:20.679 --> 00:14:23.279 find it in any of the prison records, because he 262 00:14:23.279 --> 00:14:26.960 claimed he'd served time in Leavenworth and Mayor Island in 263 00:14:27.000 --> 00:14:30.240 California and a couple other places. So the only thing 264 00:14:30.279 --> 00:14:33.440 I could go by was the years in which he 265 00:14:33.480 --> 00:14:36.440 really wasn't active doing anything else. And there was like 266 00:14:36.480 --> 00:14:39.120 a three or four year gap before World War One, 267 00:14:39.519 --> 00:14:42.480 leading up to World War One, where he must have 268 00:14:42.919 --> 00:14:46.480 been either in jail or you know, on the lamb somewhere. 269 00:14:46.519 --> 00:14:49.080 But I do believe that he spent two years in 270 00:14:49.519 --> 00:14:52.480 succession of jails. I don't know which ones was he 271 00:14:52.600 --> 00:14:54.679 you know, he claimed he was in Virginia, he claims 272 00:14:54.720 --> 00:14:57.879 he was in California, and without those records, you know, 273 00:14:57.919 --> 00:15:00.720 you cannot substantiate it. But you know, just from everything 274 00:15:00.759 --> 00:15:02.919 I've learned about him, I this is what I what 275 00:15:03.039 --> 00:15:05.840 I assume looking at a lot of different accounts. 276 00:15:06.159 --> 00:15:09.440 Once he's released from prison, he you righte that he 277 00:15:09.519 --> 00:15:13.440 tries to reconcile with Minnie, and she was with her 278 00:15:13.480 --> 00:15:18.080 family in Texas. What happens with this attempt to reconcile 279 00:15:18.519 --> 00:15:21.279 and what does he do after after that? 280 00:15:21.440 --> 00:15:24.200 Afterwards, well, he claims that a couple of times he 281 00:15:24.279 --> 00:15:27.440 tried he wanted to see his son, James Delbert, and 282 00:15:27.879 --> 00:15:30.480 you know, so he would buy gifts and he wanted to, 283 00:15:30.600 --> 00:15:33.200 you know, come visit her in the family, and you know, 284 00:15:34.039 --> 00:15:37.000 she finally let him, according to you know, you know, 285 00:15:37.120 --> 00:15:40.279 his accounts and others, see the kid as long as 286 00:15:40.360 --> 00:15:42.720 he didn't share the fact that he was the father. 287 00:15:43.039 --> 00:15:47.279 And anyway, none of these visits went well, and you know, 288 00:15:47.360 --> 00:15:50.639 he ended up kind of being ostracized from the family 289 00:15:50.799 --> 00:15:53.159 and just basically told to you know, hit the road 290 00:15:53.159 --> 00:15:56.919 and don't come back. And after leaving the Fort Worth area, 291 00:15:57.039 --> 00:16:00.000 he claims that he ended up in San Angelo, Texas. 292 00:16:00.600 --> 00:16:04.159 And in San Angelo he met a woman named Marie Vogel. 293 00:16:04.399 --> 00:16:07.559 I really doubt that this actually happened. I mean, it's 294 00:16:07.600 --> 00:16:10.279 a nice story, but in any case, she apparently had 295 00:16:10.320 --> 00:16:12.720 a boarding house and he's sweet talked to her and 296 00:16:12.759 --> 00:16:16.559 pretty soon they're living together. And she had a biological 297 00:16:16.679 --> 00:16:19.799 child and she was separated from her husband in San Diego, 298 00:16:20.080 --> 00:16:23.120 and so they agreed to hit the road and go 299 00:16:23.159 --> 00:16:26.480 to California, and you know, kind of start over it together. 300 00:16:26.720 --> 00:16:28.879 One of the problems with this story is, you know, 301 00:16:29.159 --> 00:16:32.399 she's got this kid, and that reminds him also of 302 00:16:32.399 --> 00:16:35.679 one of his child He's never mentioned as he's talking 303 00:16:35.720 --> 00:16:38.279 about his road trip and some of the things that 304 00:16:38.320 --> 00:16:40.919 he pulls along the way where they, you know, try 305 00:16:41.120 --> 00:16:44.840 to pull these extortion schemes, luring men into the bedroom 306 00:16:45.159 --> 00:16:47.759 when he's not there and him coming upon them and 307 00:16:48.240 --> 00:16:51.759 you know, demanding money to allow the person to leave it. 308 00:16:51.919 --> 00:16:54.639 Just you know this, it just doesn't this bunko scheme 309 00:16:54.679 --> 00:16:57.000 and all that just doesn't sound right. I think what 310 00:16:57.240 --> 00:17:00.399 probably happened is he never met her in sant ane Angelo. 311 00:17:00.720 --> 00:17:03.000 There was no reason for her to be there, you know, 312 00:17:03.399 --> 00:17:05.680 there was she had no family or friends there, and 313 00:17:05.720 --> 00:17:08.799 that he probably met her when he went to California 314 00:17:09.119 --> 00:17:11.720 and got a job working on a ranch where she 315 00:17:11.880 --> 00:17:14.720 was working as kind of a kind of a caretaker 316 00:17:15.279 --> 00:17:17.920 mate and had her child there. You know, That's why 317 00:17:17.960 --> 00:17:20.559 I think happened. It's a great story, like most of 318 00:17:20.599 --> 00:17:23.200 his stories, but you know, looking at you know, whatever 319 00:17:23.240 --> 00:17:26.119 records I could find it, there was nothing to substantiate that. 320 00:17:26.200 --> 00:17:29.880 I couldn't find her in any type of telephone directory 321 00:17:30.000 --> 00:17:34.319 or anything from that time period in San Angelo, Texas, 322 00:17:34.359 --> 00:17:37.160 and you know San Angelo was kind of the frontier. 323 00:17:37.319 --> 00:17:38.759 You know, what is she doing out there? 324 00:17:38.880 --> 00:17:42.440 You're right that she was born Marie Serlin. Her sister 325 00:17:42.599 --> 00:17:46.240 was Her sister was Gertrude Hoffman, and she lived in Pittsburgh. 326 00:17:46.359 --> 00:17:49.960 She's a central character in this story as well. She 327 00:17:50.079 --> 00:17:54.119 said she knew him only as a ranchan named Baker. 328 00:17:54.599 --> 00:17:58.799 So tell us what happens after with this relationship. 329 00:17:58.880 --> 00:18:01.839 Well, he ends up on this ranch, living on it as 330 00:18:01.839 --> 00:18:06.519 a doctor's spread outside Whittier, California, And you know, he's 331 00:18:06.519 --> 00:18:09.240 basically a ranch hand. And you know, from what I 332 00:18:09.359 --> 00:18:12.640 can determine, she was working there as well, and her 333 00:18:12.680 --> 00:18:16.720 sister came to visit and was introduced to him, and 334 00:18:16.759 --> 00:18:19.359 it seemed they were the only two people on the ranch. 335 00:18:19.720 --> 00:18:23.160 You know, they were the caretakers, and in all probability 336 00:18:23.200 --> 00:18:26.200 were a couple by then. And you know, he introduced 337 00:18:26.240 --> 00:18:30.079 himself as a gee, George G. Baker, and you know, 338 00:18:30.200 --> 00:18:33.680 basically I was trying to, of course, you know, hide 339 00:18:33.680 --> 00:18:36.440 his background. And one of the things they needed to do, 340 00:18:36.559 --> 00:18:40.000 since she was married, was to assume the facade of 341 00:18:40.039 --> 00:18:42.480 being a married couple with a child in order to 342 00:18:42.480 --> 00:18:45.279 be accepted there. In any case, they end up getting 343 00:18:45.279 --> 00:18:48.440 two other children as well, that they supposedly got from 344 00:18:48.480 --> 00:18:51.720 an orphanage, claiming that they were a rich person, and 345 00:18:52.039 --> 00:18:55.000 they ended up with these two other kids. And really 346 00:18:55.079 --> 00:18:57.559 it's hard to tell how they got these two kids. 347 00:18:57.759 --> 00:19:01.160 Some accounts say the sister brought them them. Others say 348 00:19:01.200 --> 00:19:04.079 that they got him through some type of orphanage arrangement. 349 00:19:04.160 --> 00:19:07.720 But in any case, by this time, about nineteen seventeen, 350 00:19:07.960 --> 00:19:12.319 nineteen sixteen, nineteen seventeen, him and Marie and these three 351 00:19:12.480 --> 00:19:15.039 little kids, and they're all under the age of six, 352 00:19:15.200 --> 00:19:18.359 are living on this ranch. And if the sister goes 353 00:19:18.400 --> 00:19:21.799 back home, back to the Pittsburgh area and never sees 354 00:19:22.039 --> 00:19:25.880 her sister again, and George ends up telling people when 355 00:19:26.079 --> 00:19:29.440 she disappears and the kids disappeared, that they had moved on. 356 00:19:29.880 --> 00:19:33.720 She'd run off with another guide to Australia or San Francisco, 357 00:19:34.000 --> 00:19:36.799 and he continued to live on the property that they 358 00:19:36.839 --> 00:19:38.119 had that they were renting. 359 00:19:38.359 --> 00:19:40.960 And Wittier you right though, that there was a next 360 00:19:40.960 --> 00:19:45.119 door neighbor, Missus Shanker and her daughter Myrtle. What did 361 00:19:45.160 --> 00:19:50.480 she notice and observe a few weeks before this disappearance. 362 00:19:50.000 --> 00:19:54.039 Well, they had seen George digging under the house and 363 00:19:54.640 --> 00:19:57.359 in the driveway and that sort of thing. They didn't 364 00:19:57.400 --> 00:20:00.000 know exactly what he was doing. George would have an 365 00:20:00.279 --> 00:20:04.119 explanation later on, but you know, basically removing dirt. And 366 00:20:04.599 --> 00:20:07.720 shortly after they noticed all this, the family had disappeared, 367 00:20:08.000 --> 00:20:11.279 and he continued to work under the house and live 368 00:20:11.319 --> 00:20:13.880 in the house. And they asked him, was that they 369 00:20:13.960 --> 00:20:15.960 knew her a little bit. They would come over and 370 00:20:16.039 --> 00:20:19.400 visit with Marie and liked her very much, and question, well, 371 00:20:19.400 --> 00:20:21.279 where'd they go? You know, you would think they would 372 00:20:21.279 --> 00:20:23.799 say goodbye, And he said, oh, they just took off. 373 00:20:23.960 --> 00:20:26.599 And this becomes this mantra whenever there is a family 374 00:20:26.640 --> 00:20:30.039 disappearance throughout the rest of his life. You right, though, that. 375 00:20:30.119 --> 00:20:33.319 The next door neighbor is pretty persistent and reports her 376 00:20:33.359 --> 00:20:37.200 suspicions to a police officer. What happens as a result 377 00:20:37.240 --> 00:20:40.759 of that, She's team points to activity in this garage. 378 00:20:41.000 --> 00:20:43.480 Right, everything seemed kind of fishy to her, and she 379 00:20:43.880 --> 00:20:47.920 contacted the Whittier Constable's office and they sent over a 380 00:20:47.960 --> 00:20:51.599 guy named Bob Way over to the house. And he 381 00:20:51.920 --> 00:20:54.839 sounds like he just did pretty much a cursory inspection. 382 00:20:55.119 --> 00:20:57.720 But by this point George had murdered the family and 383 00:20:57.759 --> 00:20:59.720 buried them under the house and did a very good 384 00:20:59.799 --> 00:21:01.319 job job of it. He would say that to his 385 00:21:01.480 --> 00:21:03.400 dying day that he did a great job, you know, 386 00:21:03.559 --> 00:21:05.680 getting rid of the bodies, and he couldn't come up 387 00:21:05.720 --> 00:21:08.200 with anything. He couldn't find the bodies or you know, 388 00:21:08.240 --> 00:21:11.799 anything like that. And he still knew this family as 389 00:21:12.160 --> 00:21:15.279 George G. Baker. And this would become a problem later 390 00:21:15.400 --> 00:21:17.920 on when they're trying to parties are trying to you know, 391 00:21:18.039 --> 00:21:21.319 find George Hassele and Wittier at that time, which they 392 00:21:21.319 --> 00:21:22.119 would not find. 393 00:21:22.279 --> 00:21:27.519 So you write that Gertrude, he continues and is persistent 394 00:21:27.559 --> 00:21:31.240 with police and continues to querry them to what might 395 00:21:31.240 --> 00:21:35.319 have happened to her sister and the children. However, there 396 00:21:35.400 --> 00:21:38.599 was no report back from them of any progress in 397 00:21:38.640 --> 00:21:42.319 the investigation. And as you say, George G. Baker as 398 00:21:42.359 --> 00:21:45.759 he's known, leaves town, and now he leaves with his 399 00:21:45.839 --> 00:21:50.000 real name, George Jefferson Hassel. He joins the Merchant Marines, 400 00:21:50.039 --> 00:21:52.839 as you say, and works in the oil fields. Based 401 00:21:52.839 --> 00:21:55.480