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Now let's dive into today's episode. I'd like to welcome
to the show Marshall Simms and Bernard Heish. Hi, you guys, doing.
Speaker 2: Great, Glad to be here with you, Alex.
Speaker 1: I'm excited to talk to you guys today because I
haven't had I've had many quantum physics physicists on, physicists on,
but I've not had any astrophysicists on before, and it's
a different perspective on the universe an astrophysicists generally speaking.
So my very first question to you is how do
you balance the imperial evidence with faith or belief in
your professional and personal lives.
Speaker 3: Some of this comes out by looking at the you know,
the rules of science and physics or astrophysics and seeing
how how they fit together and who they fit together,
or is there some major problem. I think it's possible
to have these two disciplines simultaneously in hand and both
of them propounding rules for the universe that are consistent
with with religion.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I think it might be important to
go back to how did Bertie get interested in God
and astrophysics answers your question about how he balances it. So,
every since he was a little boy, he always felt
very spiritual and he followed a strong connection to God.
He was raised Catholic, and he's study to be a
Catholic priest. And he used to line all of his
stuffed animals up on a bed in his bedroom and
feed them communion and he got quite a charge out
of that. It made him feel like this reward, like
he was connecting to God. So he did study to
be a Catholic priest. But he always had an interested
in the stars. Always just if you look up at
the night sky, he'd be amazed at the wonder of
the universe. And so astrophysics became more prominent, more important
to him. And he also wanted to be able to
have relationships with the female sex. So yeah, when you're
a priest, you know, you know, you have to kind
of be secluded. And so he decided to study astrophysics
at the Universe Indiana University in Bloomingdale. Bloomington blooming Dales
is a department store first start in Bloomington, and let's see.
I do want to add that he had this faith
from being a child and a lot of times it's
something you have to have an intuition on because it
has to go on how you feel. But logically, as
an astrophysicist, he was taught to think like a scientist,
and the National Academy of Sciences states that science is
measuring things in the physical world. You know, everything to
do with the physical world, analysis, measuring, doing experiments, testing it,
making theories. So he's really good at doing all that.
But the National Academy of Sciences says that science has
nothing to do with religion or spirituality because that's something
you can't measure. You can't measure God. Really, you can
into it that there's a God. It's like, how do
you know if somebody loves you? You can't. There's no
love meter that you could place on that person other.
Speaker 1: Than at the carnivals. Other than at the carnivals, there's
those love meters for like twenty five cents.
Speaker 2: But yes, I take a judge on the response you
get right now, if a person loves you, they'll go
out of their way to do really nice things for you.
They'll be compassionate, they'll be generous, they'll be sweet and kind.
And so that's how God is to us. You know,
Bernie has gotten many answers to prayer with God, and
he always felt that intuition when he was serving communion
to his stuffed animals. Well, how else are you want
to balance at Bernie?
Speaker 3: Well, Lys is kind of a something in the smoke,
because this is something that's written for people from basically
two walks of life. But what is the side where
there's no religion, Hell or colrade or in any way.
Speaker 2: People are fearful about Hell, They're fearful about God's power. Yeah,
they follow dogmas. That's the rules that their their faith
or their religions. That's out for them.
Speaker 3: Right then, yeah, right.
Speaker 2: But science doesn't have anything to do with that. No,
it's possible to be a scientist and to be spiritual.
You have to be open enough to see the spiritual side.
I think that's how he balances it. Really, he's open.
Speaker 1: But it's very interesting too because again I've spoken to
so many physicists who come on the show in different
fields of physics, and they, you know, the ones that
come on the show generally have an open mind to
spirituality as a general statement, but most in the in
the general space don't really talk about spirituality. Though more
and more, i'd say now than ever before, are coming
up publicly talking about consciousness, talking about quantum physics. Is
really starting to open a bunch of doors into this space,
and there's not as much fear. Don't get me wrong,
there's still very a lot of fear about people coming
out of the spiritual closet and physics, but it seems
to be a lot more open. Would you guys agree
with that?
Speaker 3: I agree with that. Yeah, it's it's time for there
could be a choices can be made perfectly neutral about religion.
The choice has been made between following down the road
and the strict em and certainly mechanical explanations of things.
And they're right when you find in California, especially the religious.
Speaker 2: Well spiritual not religious. We actually we don't have the
same definition of a religion as we do spirituality, because
religion is a set of rules that are set by
whatever church anyone's affiliated with our specific interpretations of the Bible,
and we're talking more about being attuned to the cosmic
consciousness that we co create the universe with We are
sparks of God, and so we, as sparks of God,
co create our reality, the cosmic we. And by the way,
I want to just say that when we use the
term God, we are actually referring to an entity or
a consciousness that has no sex. We may say he
or she, but God is not a he. He's not
a she. He's not a human form. He's not anything
that we could actually imagine as human beings. People like
to add through for more eyes God. I mean, we
do not see God as a desert patriarch sitting in
a throne with a staff and angels floating around him
and continuously praising him on clouds of light and joy. No,
God is the cosmic consciousness. He's the force, the great,
great Force.
Speaker 1: Well, let me ask you this. Let's take it back
all the way to the beginning, the Big Bang, Right,
what is the implications of the Big Bang through the
lens of spirituality? Because I always had the only problem
I've always had with the Big Bang is I get it.
It makes all the sense in the world. But what
was around before the Big Bang?
Speaker 2: And that was always my question, A question You're right,
old question, right, yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And that's in fact one of the things that
motivated the book that I wanted to have a balanced
perspective for beckerd you know, to show the ability of
the science and spirituality to live side by side and
perhaps even to get one aside to learn from the other.
My primary intigation and writing the book.
Speaker 1: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
and now back to the show.
Speaker 2: So we take it back to the very very rude
of existence, and so Bernie and I did a lot
of research on this and what we have found, at
least this is our current model. And we use a model.
By the way, we never say we have all the answers,
because he's a scientist. He has to have models, you know,
and as you proceed towards understanding your model or proving it,
you develop theories about it. So we're always in the
process of gathering information. But we came upon the idea
of the iron soft which is the vast nothingness that's
described in the Kabbala, the Jewish Kabala, the mystical Kabala.
So we believe at this point that the great cosmic
consciousness of God fell out of the iron saf and
just existed as a while, as an awareness, a force,
a power. And this existence got very lonely, all being
all by itself because all there was for its companion
was the iron soft and that doesn't really do anything
for you, right, So God decided, I need to have experiences,
I need to have companions. So God created this force
we think the zero point field, which is a very
vast electromagnetic feel that's been around since the beginning of
the universe. And we can tell you more about that later.
He has some ideas for how to tap it. But anyway,
this zero point energy, he used it to create the
Big Bang. And so the Big Bang started as an infinitesimal, tiny,
tiny little point. They had so much pressure it stop
me if I'm not explaining, okay, and it just exploded,
and the zero point energy was there with it, and
this huge explosion created the universe. All the vast galaxies,
star systems, planets and things evolved from that.
Speaker 3: No, it's not really there an explosion, because that implies
that this happened inside an ordinary space importin mentional geometry,
and that is now becoming a big question in cosmology
among those who are experts in the zero point field
to try to get some understanding of what there was
before time. I mean, you can't have you can't have
something happening before or after. If you don't have it
after or before. It's this impossible to try to understand
something in our our notion of the what space time
is to come up with a model and as no
one knows how to do this, then because we're trying
to get a model of nothing, and if we go
back off and say, well, okay, let's go back even
even further with the idea of nothing, then what made
nothing happen?
Speaker 2: Well, that's why we got to the einsaw because that
was all we could.
Speaker 3: Find Internet regress and that's more the well, I guess
it was the scientific problem. I say it's metaphysical, but
I think primarily it's a problem of understanding something that's
more complicated than our three dimensional replus one dimensional space.
And somehow the the the zero point field had to
come out of that. But how could it? Because you
can't make something happen if there's nothing to deplore along
our time and to make things happen, and we're just
not have no ideas. What's at this point? I think
of what kind of thing time is like if it
changes its character for what it is in our organic
space to something deeper and more protrauling.
Speaker 2: That's a big, huge subject, is there it is. That's
a good time. I mean as a human being, time
is passage of events, how the day changes, you know,
the sun rotating, I mean the Earth rotating around the sun,
and yeah, that's right.
Speaker 1: But then time, time and space is It is interesting
because with quantum entanglement it is kind of put materialism unnoticed,
if you will, in many ways because it just defies
time and space. And I've spoken to many spiritual masters,
have spoken a lot of near death experiences and the
way that there is no time or space on the
other side, according to them, because everything is instant, you
think it, you're there, and quantum entanglement is kind of
a almost like a little bit of a spark, if
you will. If I can use that word of what
it is like on the other side, Can you explain
quantum entanglement a little bit to people to do they really
understand what it is and how it's kind of thrown
a lot of things upside down.
Speaker 3: You can in the laboratory set up in a situation
where you have maybe a vent of electrons or photons,
and there are different things that they follow some similar
quantum ows. And what you can do is to take
one pair of these uh, these particles and in some
way you haven't interact with each other in the laboratory,
and you shoot shoot one off to where they go.
And the entanglement interpretation shows that the the two the
two you know, electrons or potons or whatever it using, uh,
they they have the same some certain same, certain same
properties that will for the rest of the age of
the universe. And unless something comes to law, and and
and and well, I guess I'm saying.
Speaker 2: Bertie, why don't I talk about the double slid experiment
because that shows quantum entanglement. It's a really famous experiment.
By way, Oh, he's the one that did the first experiment.
Speaker 3: People are experiment proposed it and the lab guy Alectrician.
Speaker 2: Okay, Well, the double slid experiment is one of the
most bizarre experiments in physics, and it cuts to the
heart of the weirdness of quantum mechanics. So this experiment
is done in a lap with a laser and a
screen that has two narrow slits in it. The laser
beam has to be wide enough to shine on both slits.
When you cover up one of the slits, as the
light from the laser passes to the open slit, a
pattern will appear on the wall behind it. This pattern
is due to the spreading out of light, a process
called diffraction in this case specifically single slit diffraction. But
if you uncover the second slit, the light going through
the open slit will still undergo diffraction. But in addition,
the light beams traveling through the two slits will interfere
with each other. Did I say that right?
Speaker 3: Yeah, they're tied together and the theories it says that
they're tied together for whoever age you want in the universe,
because there is that they are connected to each other
even though you can't connect them in any way. That
is like the physical notion. It's entangled and support each
other and very mysterious kind of way that quantum mechanics
has to be used to but doesn't have any crew
has to what is happening.
Speaker 2: Still, it shows how the photons are connected to each
other quartam entanglement.
Speaker 3: If you're two photons away from each other, then the
photons are getting tangled, or you can do with the
electrons as well, or other other more massive particles. Assume
I've not seen much about that.
Speaker 2: So the conventional explanation is that each photon somehow knows
that even though it goes through slit A r B,
it is also in the same in the open position,
and vice versa. The wave is a wave of probability.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so it's kind of like when two twins are
across the world from each other and one gets burned
and the other one feels it.
Speaker 2: That's right, you got it summed it up.
Speaker 1: It's it's it's a it's unexplainable, but there has been
a lot. I mean, there's just been so much proof
in about these kind of things that have happened throughout history,
like the twin thing. I mean, anyone who's ever been
a twin understands that you feel it, Or even a
mother and a child you feel like, oh, something's happened
to my kid, and they just get this instinct that
just pops in the second it happens. That's not quantifiable
in materialism or in time and space, but there's something
going on there, and I think we've all experienced it
at one point or another. And I mean we can
use the example of a phone call that the phone
rings and you know who it is before you pick
they pick you pick it up. There's some sort of
weird connection that's in the the quantum field or the
what would you call it, the magnetic field that you
were speaking of.
Speaker 2: Electromagnetic field? Is zero point energy?
Speaker 1: Is that kind of the quantum field?
Speaker 3: Uh?
Speaker 2: Is it verning zero point energy? It's the best electromagnetic
field energy. I mean Einstein and box Block knew about it.
So people have known about it since the early nineteen hundreds.
It's not a new theory, and I mean, it really
is acknowledged. So can we tap it? So pretty has
come up with an idea.
Speaker 1: So how do you tap it? How do you tap it?
We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
and now back to the show.
Speaker 2: You what we tell you about it. Sure, I have
a little summary page that would actually help me. So
it's broadly recognized as a vast field of electromagnetic energy.
It's also known as the quantum vacuum field. This field
represents the underlying energy that is everywhere in the universe,
even where there is nothing but vacuum. It's composed of
every frequency or wavelength that exists. Some are short and
others are long. It's perfectly random. It's an infinite source
of energy. And Bernie and our company Jovian jov io
n dot com, if anyone wants to look us up,
has come up with a way that we believe could
provide humanity with an endless supply of totally clean energy
without violating the second law of thermodynamics. Our process has
nothing to do with heat, is electromagnetic. So there's a
Casmir force that happens between two parallel metal plates that
are pushed together by an overpressure of the ZPE from
the outside of the plates. And the reason is because
if the plates are really really close together, the longer
waves of the ZPE cannot get into the plate, can't
pass through, so it becomes, you know, like a little
vacuum inside. And this is called the Kasimir force, and
it happens down at the nano level, so it's very
very tiny place and it can be we we believe
the ZPF can be manipulated through use of nanosized Kasimir
cavities by squeezing out photon energy electronic orbitals of an
atom spiral down inside the cavity and photons are emitted.
Our process then sends the photons through a photovoltaic cell
and electricity will be generated. So in this way it
would be captured in a device we would call the
Kasimir generator or the CG and it's portable. You can
use it for driving cars, for hospital littles, kitchens, whatever
you need. Yeah, and.
Speaker 3: So much more more friendly to the environment. And then
the fever energy would be because here you're really really
taking nothing out of the energy of the universe except
doing that in the interview of the universe through your experiment.
Speaker 2: So the air that passes through the Casimir cavity as
it goes back out to the main area, it's replenished,
so we're not using up any resources.
Speaker 3: The situation is that we apply for a patent on
this device, and we've actually done at it some years
ago and its partiality to did that, but then came
the awkward requirement to go find some money.
Speaker 2: Yeah, respond time, we've had several experiments that had some
very promising results, but we haven't had the funds to
get the proper kind of Knademiric cavity. We need to
research and get more information to create a prototype.
Speaker 1: So that's well, that sounds fascinating. Is is this is
this technology that you guys are talking about. Did Tesla
touch upon any of this or is that a completely
different way that he was trying to do kind of
like this free.
Speaker 3: Energy he describing, we described also heard other things in
mind that were sometimes not.
Speaker 2: So broadcasting electricity. Yeah, this is not like that. Okay,
is on you know, portable on location wherever you are.
Speaker 3: I would hesitate some credibility to.
Speaker 2: He was brilliant, he was a genius.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, without yeah, without question. And we're still
trying to figure out a lot of the stuff that
he was talking about back a.
Speaker 2: Better of our alternating current which the world works on.
So he deserves a lot of credit.
Speaker 1: Absolutely absolutely. So what you're saying in regards to this
this for this uh, this field that we're tapping into,
as you were describing it, it sounds very much like
the force from Star Wars. It is around us, it's
all around us. You can manipulate it, and then just
kind of it sounded very force like in that sense.
Maybe you don't need to be a Jedi but I'm
just using using that as an example.
Speaker 2: Right, I'm sure I think there's a lot of truth
to the force.
Speaker 1: Actually, oh, absolutely absolutely, Well, I mean, but go ahead, Bernie.
Speaker 3: This was something I certainly could have across near a
Festa's desk and he would be very comfortable with this.
And the thing is that the energy inherent in this
field is literally infinite, and so you can pick out
the pieces of it that are a grave blanks that
are not going to be the word belligerent because most
weapons are most most experiments and theories wind up somehow
or other supporting weapons.
Speaker 2: Yeah, cannot be used for weapons.
Speaker 3: This inn can not be used for for any weapon
because you pick out certain frequencies in the field. Correct. Uh,
but if you're not going to extract a whole bunch
of other stuff which can become explosive, you know, as
in the uh it's hydrogen bomb. So this seems seems
to be benevolent usage of the zero point field. Uh.
That couldn't couldn't be turned into weapons by anybody anybody, know,
no matter how money is thrown at it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And you say, you use the word frequency, and
I think that's a very interesting word to use because
on a spiritual standpoint, frequency is spoken about so much
that you have to change your vibration. The lower the frequency, uh,
the soul is is that a low frequency, so it
attracts certain things to it. The higher the frequency, Uh,
you could feel that energy. Do you believe that the
universe is just essentially frequency? That frequency is fundamental? Fundamental?
Speaker 2: Well, we think the universe is consciousness really yes.
Speaker 1: But is that but is that consciousness a frequency?
Speaker 3: That's the question. Frequency without without something to to frequent
as an unrefinable but you can make anything.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 3: I have a frequency guitar. Guitar is an actually example.
The frequencies are the lariest north you find in the scale.
So the frequency has to be defined in terms of
what it is. It's it's frequenting.
Speaker 2: At this point, I would just like to let everyone
know that Bernie is Parkinson's So if he's slow speaking,
it's because of his illness. He's doing an amazing job. Yes, yes,
he's enjoying this book. By the way, this is his
fourth book.
Speaker 1: That's excellent.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Well, I helped him write this book because it's hard
for him to type, and I actually put a lot
of my own ideas into it too, So very good.
Speaker 1: No, I appreciate I appreciate you letting letting everybody know
that I was going to let them know as well.
It's very courageous what you're doing, Bernard about with these
interviews and getting this information out into the world. And
that's what I'm trying to do with the show, as
well as to have these conversations reach a mass audience
as much as we possibly can. And now I wanted
to ask you this is one of my favorite topics.
I'd love to hear your point of view on it.
Simulation theory, the idea that we are in a conscious simulation,
very much matrix like from the movie The Matrix. I
don't believe there were in the side of a computer
somewhere and there's some teenage alien playing us as a simulation.
I don't believe that. But the concept of Maya from
the Vedic text, or the dream from the Aborigines, or
so many other things. The concept of the illusion that
we are all part of has been around for thousands
of years, and now physics is starting to catch up
to this idea of quantum physics is starting to catch up.
I'd love to hear your point of view on it.
Speaker 3: Well, I guess the central point of our book They
and mapposal but a suggestion and a model. It's a
model of reality that buys all living things and our
planets and us and so on. And this assumes that
there is what God would do. This idea of God
is attractive to as Marchisi create companions and sort and
but mainly to exercise his own abilities by creating what
he imagines. And that would be a lot more fun
create what you imagine than doing this the hard work
of imagining, not creating it.
Speaker 1: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
and now back to the show.
Speaker 3: So think about think of God wanting for some crazy
reason to go ski down the mountain. Okay, what's happened?
Wants to go skiing? Well, can you do that? Is God? No,
I can't because even God can't make I can't make
the ski boots or ski or skis that would suit
or accommodate the principles. So if he went through skiing
one day, all he has to do is create a
ski resort and ski apparel. And he can't see what
he wants.
Speaker 2: To two human beings. He experiences to the human beings
and skiing.
Speaker 3: Right, And then the importance of this thing that has
been done is that he will understand what can be
done with the laws of physics that he has created.
And that's the in fact, the whole purpose of it,
because if John did not have some outside reference to
work guest and compare his understanding to other people, then
there would be no fun in the scene down the mountain.
Speaker 2: And in other words, God wanted to create a universe
full of interesting stuff so he could play and learn
and grow and you know, you have to experience, and
he couldn't experience of the consciousness that he can experience
through us and all the animals on the planet and
you know, other living beings.
Speaker 3: What fun is the diplo monopoly?
Speaker 2: You know you have no gaymates, right, Yeah, So we're
bosing that God imagines all of the cosmic reality the
universe by organizing his thoughts into computer like algorithms that
run in his mind. This requires unbelievable bandwidth in data storage,
but it solves one of the greatest mysteries of all time.
So God is a mathematician, and if you look at
the world around us, math is apparent in every aspect,
especially in physics and science, you know, even in music
and art. Yeah, art is full of mathematics. Oh yeah,
the Golden mean and art in music. Well, so music
is based on math really, I mean every the distance
between every octave. And Bach made sure he measured it
out correctly. Johann Sebastian Bach, the father of modern music,
created each half step to be the square root of two,
twelfth twelve root of two. That's square twelfth root of two. Yeah,
and then we need so and by doing that, every
instrument could play together in an orchestra or a band
because they would all be in tune with each other.
Speaker 3: Are we hearing each other?
Speaker 2: Go?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah? Absolutely the question. I've been using that concept
of the algorithm, God's algorithm for a while now. First
I've heard that's that used it as well, because I
always don't. It was because I'd been using it as
an example because people are like, well, if we have
free will, then you know, how can we have predestinies
and all this kind of stuff, like, you know, we're
down here to go down certain predestined paths, but if
you have free will, how is that possible? And I
was like, well it seems to me that we're God's algorithm,
because an algorithm has a direction, but it kind of
does what it wants, and it could figure things out
in ways that we the creator of the algorithm didn't
see coming, so it would learn. It's AI essentially it's
learning and growing, but it's going on its own direction.
So the algorithm has free will within a box of
parameters that it's sad and so it sounds very similar
to what we are down here. And if and this
is just the one planet, let's not even talk about
the billions and billions of other planets in the universe.
God knows what's sitting around other algorithms that are being
flow that are being tested around the universe as well,
which is very very interesting.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that God has a motive, and you can figure
out presson be sitting here and having that given ideas
that basically explaining on whats of God's motivation is. That's
that's high pollutant thinking, you know. Uh, And if we're right,
we've got something that should appeal to a lot more
people than the you know, the materialistic versions of God
on one side, and they I don't believe in God
on h the other side. I think we've offered a
good u starting point or a reasonable middle that is
not only going through I think if we panel with
materialism and psychism, but it's going to be a learning too,
even for God himself to learn how, how, how what
he is and what he can be done, which is inforting.
Speaker 2: Well, it's good.
Speaker 1: No No, I was going to say, it's like when
when you're when you were a kid and you're playing
with your Barbies or you're playing with your g I Joe's.
You as the creator, the god of that environment that
you've created. You have characters and you have a predestined
way that you're fighting with them or telling a little
story or things like that. But you as the creator,
understand where the story is going because you're creating the
story as we go along. But as an algorithm, it's
kind of like throwing a g I Joe and a
Barbie together and like, let's see what happens. Uh, And
that's a much more exciting story because you really truly
don't know which way it's going to go. So the
idea of us being the algorithm of God makes so
much more sense than there's this big puppeteer just because
that's boring. If it's just a boring story, it's a
boring way of looking at what we do here. So
this free will thing is really fundamental to this entire
cosmic algorithm algorithm simulation that we're all kind of sitting in.
Speaker 2: Definitely. Yeah, I have an interesting quote I was going
to read. Brian Whitworth, a professor of information processing in
technology in New Zealand, puts it all this way. One
of the mysteries of our world is how every photon
of light, every electron and quirk, and indeed every point
of space itself seems to just know what to do
with each moment. The mystery is that these tiniest parts
of the universe have no mechanisms or structures for which
to make such decisions. Only God, the algorithm, could make
those decisions.
Speaker 1: You know, I was thinking the other day. I don't
know if you guys have animals or not, or have
had animals in your life, but I was. I was
looking at my cats. That have a couple of cats,
and I was looking at them, and they're pre the
way they react to us as a family. They're kind
of like small algorithms with sets of rules. Cats will
be cats. Cats will not be a dog won't be
a giraffe. It has its pre built algorithm of how
it reacts to us. And I was just looking at
them like, well that if that's the case, then a
tree has its own algorithm. A tiger has its own algorithm.
You know, a bear has its own algorithm in the
sense of the way it interacts with us. That's why
I always get upset when people are like, oh, that
tiger went crazy. No, the tiger went tiger. You got
in its way. It didn't get in your way. Kind
of situation. But it again goes along with this idea
of this algorithm that everything, every blade of grass, every
bird that's flying, it has its own pre built programming
or way that it interacts with this environment. Does that
make sense?
Speaker 2: I think you put it really well perfect. Yeah, So
an algorithm, the dog algorithm, the turtle algorithms. Have I
had a turtle for a long time, Oh yeah.
Speaker 1: As they do, then their algorithm lives a long time
if you feed them.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: But there's all these sets of rules and even something
as you know, something as simple as a blade of
grass is conscious. It's not the level of consciousness that
you and I might have. But when the sun comes out,
it angles itself to get the sun, you know. And
there were some amazing experiments I saw, I saw. I
forgot who who was doing it, but they were seeing
how conscious a plant was, and they would they would
plant a seed and they would see where the roots
would go, and they would put an empty dish and
a dish with water underneath the soil to see where
it would go. And it would automatically we go toward
every time to where the water was. It just instinctively new,
it's programming new it needed to get water. Then they
actually played the sound of water to see if it
would do it, and it went after the sound of
water as well. I mean, it's just really fascinating these
ideas of what is conscious and what is not conscious
in the world today. What do you think about that experiment?
Speaker 3: Well, I think it's a good one. Or other experiments
that showed that the class in general have consciousness of
some certain reactive existim higher.
Speaker 2: And well, I have to tell you. When I was
getting my teaching credential at the University of California at
Center Barbara, we as student teachers, conducted an experiment in
a room we grew plants to set different kinds of
music to see how they would respond. Sure, so we
had a section that listened to classlassical music, and those
plants boots tall and straight and flourished. Then we had
the plants that were listening to rock music, and they
got a little bit jaggedy, a little twisted, and musa musak.
It was soothing to the plants, but they didn't grow
as tall and straight as the classical music. Isn't that
interesting that classical music is very mathematical. And I was
talking about that earlier when I was talking about the
mathematical nature of music, And I mean when you think
about the rhythm notations, the quarter notes, eighth notes, half notes,
and time signatures, I mean, it's all based on math.
Speaker 1: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
and now back to the show.
Speaker 2: And I think this is one of the things I
wonder about music. Whether God uses music as his mathematical
expression or algorithm through sound. Is it possible that music
is mathematical because the universe was designed by a pure mathematician.
It has the greatest influence on us of anything abstract
in the world, and it undergirds all of society. You know,
it's impossible to get away from music. Yeah, it's everywhere.
It's all pervasive, from classical music. I mean, I have
to say I'm a little bit font more biased towards
classical music because I'm a music teacher and opera singer.
But I still like pop, I still like rock. I
like DJ music, you know, And you can experience God
through music in the church if you go to a
church service.
Speaker 1: Well, well, you know what's really interest. I come from filmmaking.
I've been a filmmaker for many years and I worked
in Hollywood, and story is also something that's everywhere. You
can't get away from story. It is true, absolutely every
every aspect of our life, even from like this is
what just happened to me when I walk down the street.
We constantly are telling each other stories. But the classic
stories that have stood the test of time are mathematical
in the beats of when certain things have to happen
in the story that the Joseph Campibell put it, the
hero's journey. That's why a story like Star Wars hits
these beats so perfectly. And then you start analyzing old
films and you just go, oh, there's the beat. There's
the beat. There's the beat, there's the beat. It is
absolutely mathematical and art. I mean, just look at the
Mona Lisa, or you look at a vengo or and
you can start breaking down the mathematics of art. It
doesn't seem like it is, but it's there, always underlining
behind the scenes.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah.
Speaker 2: I've also a graphic artist and every time I start
a project, like if I'm doing a flyer for my opera.
I'm on the board of an opera company called Parisvie Opera.
It's in San Francisco Bay Area, and I have to
measure everything out, like what size do I want the card?
What are the margins going to be? Like how big
is this logo supposed to be? How what font size?
What font type? You know, how is it going to
fit into this little space? How are you going to
balance everything out? I mean, it's all mathematics and to
the eye, right.
Speaker 1: And that's the thing. Isn't it interesting? Though, Like when
you look at when you look at something that's off balance.
As a graphic designer, because I've been doing graphic design
for many years as well, you can't if you're a
layman and there's an understanding graphic design, and you look
at something, you'll just go that doesn't feel right, But
then you move like, oh, let's just move it over
to the left. Oh, okay, that feels better. It's fascinating.
It's fascinating to see, Like, you know, we as graphic designers,
you can kind of see what's going on behind the
scenes because we have the theory and understanding of it
and also just our instinctual i that we've developed over
years and years of working in that space. But when
something's off, the layman or the man or woman on
the street won't know what it is wrong, but they
can tell. Same thing with music, same thing with story,
same thing with movies, same thing with art. They could
just sense something is off. That's why when anything veers
from the standard story structure that has been around for
thousands and thousands of years, people mass people generally don't
like it. That's why every big blockbuster runs through that
same structure and many versions of it, but still runs
through that structure. And when it's off, when you watch
a Fellini film, it's very different than when you watch Titanic.
Oh yeah, the beats are slightly different or David Lynchfield
for that matter, they're all good, but they all have
a different, different, different thing. It's very interesting. Now I
wanted to ask you, guys, what, from an astrophysics standpoint,
can astrophysics inform the concept of reincarnation or rebirth.
Speaker 3: Well, I don't think that anything out of it astrophysics
could have much relevance here. But in fact, I believe
in the incarnation. I think it's essential to carry out
like God carry out its plans. You see, if you,
if you we want to have a rish life, you
want to be able to live it according to your
own free will. And that free will would not be
possible if we woke up on Morien and said, oh gee,
that's reincarnated and now i'm and so it would be
worthless to live in life and that kind of that
kind of reward system, because you would know, what if
we're done before and differently, and it would be hinder
your abilities to operate as an independent, independent, powerful human being. Well,
it's that that I see as the biggest asset of
that you're can live on lives and that they have
a purpose, and that purpose is if you're going to
live better and better lives if you go through them,
you know.
Speaker 2: With and you can make up for mistakes that you
made before you get other chances. Right, It's not like
a one time thing and wow, oh I blew it.
I guess I'm going to hell right right.
Speaker 1: But the thing is that the key to that is
that we forget that we're not informed about those other
lives or why we're even here. Is the discovery aspect,
because according to the spirituatural spiritual mattress I've spoken to
and near death experiences, is that there is a plan
that we come down here with, but we don't know
the plan. We have to kind of discover it, and
sometimes we have the free will to go off off
course and completely missed the point.
Speaker 2: You know what we know? I mean, at least I
can speak for myself, all right. I know when a
certain something happens in my life, you know, a certain episode.
I know what I'm supposed to do. I can see
two choices I could see. Yeah, well, if I follow
it through on this, It's going to be kind of tough,
but I'm pretty sure I'm supposed to do it, because
the alternative is to go and do something else, for instance,
writing this book. So Bernie has been working on it.
He worked on it for about five years, but you know,
because he got Parkinson's, he was having problems completing it.
And you know, he was kind of hinting that he
needed help, but he didn't actually ask for it, except
one day he said, Okay, Marcia, I really want to
finish this book. By the way, we're a husband and wife, Teama,
I should say we've been together for thirty six years,
so I know him really well. But he asked me
for help, and he said, if you help me, you
can put your name on the book alongside mine. And
that made all the difference in the world. And then
I knew, I mean, I spent several months helping him
clean this book up, organize it, edit it, whatever. But
I knew that was one of my purposes here. It
was to help him write this book. And I think
it's his most powerful book. Really. I mentioned the title,
of course, Yeah, she's a miracle of our universe.
Speaker 1: Well, let me ask you. Let me ask you. Though
this book is coming out, it is available now in
this time period, right, So would this book have even
been accepted thirty years ago?
Speaker 2: Probably not?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 1: I mean, I mean, Bernard would have been laught that
probably lapped out of the field at that point in time.
Is that Is that fair?
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's fair. That's a possibility. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm stating that because it just seems that everything
is just shifting so much that these ideas are being
more and more widely accepted by people. I mean, I
don't remember a time where, you know, someone like me
is sitting down with an astrophysicist or a quantum physicists
and talking deep you know, physics kind of conversations mixed
in with spirituality. This really didn't exist ten years ago,
twenty years ago in a mass way, But now there
shows talking about it all the time. So I think it.
Do you believe it? It is the time for this
information to start hitting the masses.
Speaker 3: I have time for that, and also time for.
Speaker 2: It's a new view of consciousness, God, science, and reality,
which is what's going on right now.
Speaker 3: But evolution is that I think it's also something that
might might be proven within a year or so. As
we now have we have a huge number of uh
aerial phenomena that have been observed well several years, probably
pretty hild because I think it's uh, it's really uh
deeply involved. We are deeply involved with that as a
way to have our civilization go through a phase transition
from from we have now to something much different.
Speaker 2: So all the observations of the UFOs or U A P.
Speaker 3: Yeah, really jazzed by that because I think that it
comes out as that respective will. It's going to upset
the world significantly, and hopefully.
Speaker 1: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor
and now back to the show. Absolutely, and I think
we have to kind of be I think we have
as a as a species, have to get to a
certain consciousness to even accept this idea without us completely
losing our mind. And I think that we have been
growing in consciousness. Humanity's consciousness has been evolving I think,
I think a very fast rate over the last ten years.
I mean, because what the strides have been made in
these kind of conversations in the last ten years probably
are more than they were made in the last hundred prior.
I mean, it's just very fast.
Speaker 2: You know. As horrible as the pandemic was, it gave
us all time to have our own personal internal space
and dialogue, which we often don't get because we're so
busy with things. And you know, our lives. But during
the pandemic, that probably was a turning point for our race.
You know, we decided to get more spiritual. We started
meditating because we had time to meditate.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, if you would have told me the
entire world shut down for six weeks, I mean to
the point where the dolphins came back to Venice, I
mean to the canals of Venice, like literally, after like
a few weeks, they were coming back into the city.
I would have said, durre insane. That sounds like a
science fiction movie. But in our lifetime, the entire world
pretty much shut down to a certain extent for about
six weeks, and then of course it took a long
time for everybody to come back out. But you're right,
it is.
Speaker 3: It was.
Speaker 1: It was a very difficult time for all of us,
but in many ways hidden blessings to give us that
time to kind of reflect on our lives to the
point now that the West are like, no, I don't
want to work nine to five and work forty to
sixty hour weeks for forty years and then get a
watch that that doesn't exist anymore, that's gone. You know.
I want to work at home. I want to do this.
I want to have life work balance that didn't exist
pre pandemic. Now, guys, I want to ask you a
few questions I ask all of my guests. Okay, what
is your definition of living a fulfilled life?
Speaker 2: Realizing my dreams is fulfilling my life. I have a
lot of dreams, things that I want to achieve. I've
actually done a lot of the things. Maybe finishing this
book is one of the biggest ones, because sharing thoughts
that I've had, intuitions I've had, you know, with the
world for anyone who cares to read the book. You know,
we put our heart and soul into this book. So
I'm Bernie especially. I mean I helped him shape his ideas.
So it really is kind of a synthesis of all
your ideas, wouldn't you say?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I guess fulfilling my life is fulfilling my
dreams and having a richness of you know, joy and
happiness and love and feeling and light whatever. What it
was the fulfilled life for you, Bernie?
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, I write something like a series of books
is certainly Yeah. I feel that's accomplished something that I
came here to do and a pron of and accomplishes
a purpose. I think. So that's what to me is life.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he finished it. He said he always had a
dream from when he was a young boy that he
wanted to write about God and science. He did it.
Speaker 1: That's beautiful, that's beautiful.
Speaker 2: That's yeah. So he has four books. He has The
God Theory, The Purpose Guided Universe, Proof of God with
Ptolemy Tompkins, and then The Miracle of Our Universe, A
New View of Consciousness, God, Science and Reality by Bernie
and myself. We have a copy here, do you know. Yeah,
So that's that's fulfillment, all right.
Speaker 3: You l oh.
Speaker 1: I think I'm I think I'm doing it. I think
I'm doing it. I mean from where I came from
being a filmmaker and working with Oscar winners and all
that kind of stuff back in the day. Uh, to
do a spiritual podcast, which is completely outside of my
comfort zone when I started it. Yeah, and it's fallen
into something that is shaping and impacting millions of people
around the world. Uh, this is I feel that I'm
very fulfilled doing this kind of work.
Speaker 2: So it's it is yeah, to share spirituality.
Speaker 3: Our son is also up and coming a filmmaker, breaking them.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we will.
Speaker 1: We will have a conversation about it after we stopped recording.
I'll tell you all about the film business. Uh Now,
if both of if both of you had a chance
to go back in time and speak to little Marsha
and little Bernie, what advice would you give them.
Speaker 2: To Little Marsha, Be confident in myself. Be confident that
I can be beautiful, that I can do great things.
I think that's one of the things that I've learned
over time, to gain confidence and then be confident that
I have things to share with people around me. And
I'm proud as a little Barshit, big Barsha of my
ability to persevere. I've always been a very persistent person. Bernie,
I will tell you I don't give up, even long
beyond but I should. I don't. I don't give up.
I always find workarounds. So I guess that's one thing
I would tell little Marsha too, don't give up. Find
a work around if you run into a wall.
Speaker 3: That's important, very important, very important you Berny Well, I
started to say, I have two kids, and in terms
of what they would learn from three, it's right. You
might have two of my own and one is adopted
UH from the marshas. So what to say to them?
I guess to be true to themselves and try to
find something that is really significant to them that they
can invest their their their abilities and also their their
yunions for. And that would be if I if I
do that in the right way, then if I look
back at that and say I have done in the
right way, that would be fulfilling the biggest round about
bat Well, I.
Speaker 2: Just but yourself. You've filled your dreams, right, yeah, if
fulfilled the streams. I mean, he still has a word
to go, I'm sure, but right now, well, at this
point in time, he has kept going. He has not
given up.
Speaker 3: In fact, I would say that probably this book there
is more weight to me in terms of my thinking
of it as a healing tool and something to provide
information from mankind. I would say this, this is this
outweighs my scientific papers. I have over one hundred scientific
papers three three something like yeah, and the other things
in an astrophysics you know, I spent ten years as
a scientific editor for the Astrophysical Journal. So the coadre
of scientists that are responsible for accepting or rejecting the
UH research in that field that goes on. And I
was when I'm ten for for a year, so there
are other things besides the books and that, but it's uh,
well it's been probably in a pretty good life.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Now, how do you define God?
Speaker 2: God a great cosmic consciousness that creates reality and as
we said earlier, spun off the universe and the star
systems and the planets and the humans and the animals,
spun them off so that God, he, she could have experiences.
So because we're a creation of God, we're a spark
of God. So we see it as God as a consciousness.
You could say it was a force. Consciousness is a force,
It's an awareness. Did I leave anything else that you
want to say about God?
Speaker 3: Many things?
Speaker 2: Probably probably, yeah, But it's the higher power. And well,
so oftentimes people approach God when they're in great need,
so otherwise they are kind of oblivious. But God can
answer our prayers.
Speaker 1: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor
and now back to the show.
Speaker 2: And so I guess this is something important. I want
to say. How do you realize or how do you
know if God actually answered your prayer? And does God
answer all of our prayers? So God gives you answers
that not necessarily in the time praying that you would like,
sometimes right away, sometimes down the road. You could see
answers by observing the world around you. I mean, sometimes
you might get an answer from God by looking at
a road sign and the answer is right there, embedded
in the road sign message, or by looking at a
license plate, or coming out of the mouth of a friend,
or you know radio program you are listening to. But
your prayers do get answered, just not always in the
way you might expect. So do you have anything else
to say about prayers and prayers? Oh, it's important when
you pray to God to be really clear about what
it is you want, you know, not just some vague
thing like, oh, sure pray for pray for Deborah, or
what you want to say? Well, these are the things
that I would like to come about. You know that
she's healed, that her back is perfect, she has a
love in her life, and joy and friends, you know
that kind of stuff, not just a general prayer, but
exactly what would you like to see in that person's
life appear? So God really knows what kind of answers
you're looking for. Five senses you know fair enough very much.
Smell eel.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Now where can people find out more about you and
the amazing work you guys are doing in the world.
Speaker 2: Well, we have a website. It's www dot the Miracle
of Our Universe dot com, and we're also on Facebook,
the Miracle of Our Universe. You just search for it
in Facebook and it pops up. I have an Instagram
account Marcius Simms for zero and the book is available
for sale on Amazon and other major book seller outlets
like Barnes and Noble and Walmart and Target. So I
guess those are the major places. Look on our sure,
redwill Weiser, there's the page about us there.
Speaker 3: To us.
Speaker 2: Yeah, plenty of ways to get to it.
Speaker 1: And do you have any party messages for the audience?
Speaker 2: Well, I would just like to share with everyone how
you can get your guaranteed ticket to Heaven, because that
was the original title of our book, by the way,
and so I wanted to put this in the book,
and it's in the book in the back section. So
I wanted to share everyone you have a guaranteed ticket
to Heaven because you are a spark of God and
you're a part of him or her. The alternative would
be helped. Answer is because we are sparks of God.
Why would God condemn a part of himself to eternal
fire and damnation. It's illogical. You know, if someone does
something that deserves negative carbon, well it can be paid off.
You know, I have to do enough good deeds, but
it can be paid off. So how you experience heaven
while you're here on earth? It's important to be in
a state of gratitude because this opens your mind for optimism, love,
and God's still small voice. The good news is that anyone,
even you, can achieve this if you take the time
to meditate and distill your monkey mind. It may take
a lot of practice because the mind likes to loop
around in thoughts. So one of the ways that I
steal my mind is I sit in a quiet place
and count backwards from one hundred. And I sometimes have
to do it so fast to stop the thoughts that
there's not a space for a thought to come in.
But it does slow down, and then as it slows down,
you can melt right into the beauty and grace of God.
I get a lovely kind of spring, green and purple,
and some magentas and they kind of swirl around inside
my mind's eye, and then I know that I am
communicating with the cosmic consciousness.
Speaker 1: That was beautiful, Marsha, Thank you so much. I want
to thank both you and Bernie for coming on the
show and not only talking with me today for my audience,
but also for the amazing work that you're doing to
raise the consciousness of the planet. So I appreciate both
of you. Thank you so much.
Speaker 2: You're welcome, our pleasure, You're delightful, host great, thank you.
Speaker 1: For spending this sacred time with us today. If you
feel called to explore this conversation further, you'll find the
show notes for this episode at Next levelsoul dot com
Forward slash three nine six and if your soul is
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