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Speaker 4: You are now listening to True Murder, the most shocking
Speaker 4: killers in true crime history and the authors that have
Speaker 4: written about them Gasey, Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker BTK Every week,
Speaker 4: another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and infamous
Speaker 4: killers in true crime history. True Murder with your host,
Speaker 4: journalist and author Dan Zupanski. Good evening, ambitious, attractive, and
Speaker 4: full of potential. Five young college students prepared for the
Speaker 4: new semester to beginning careers in starting families. They had
Speaker 4: a lifetime of experiences in front of them, But death
Speaker 4: came without warning in the dark of the night, brutally
Speaker 4: ending five promising lives, leaving behind three gruesome crime scenes.
Speaker 4: The Gainesville Ripper terrorized the University of Florida, casting an
Speaker 4: ominous shadow across the frightened college town. What evil lurked
Speaker 4: inside him, What demons drove him to kill? What made
Speaker 4: him a Monster of All Time? Book they were featuring
Speaker 4: this evening is a Monster of All Time, The true
Speaker 4: story of Danny Rowling The Gainesville Ripper. With my special guest,
Speaker 4: journalist and author and attorney JT.
Speaker 2: Hunter. Welcome back to the program, and thank you very
Speaker 2: much for agreeing to this interview. JT.
Speaker 3: Hunter, Thanks dang glad to be here.
Speaker 2: Thank you very much. One of the worst killers in
Speaker 2: true crime history. Thank you very much, the monster of
Speaker 2: all time. You bring us right to a scene and
Speaker 2: I get you described this. This is in Parchment, Mississippi's
Speaker 2: tenttry in Mississippi. You take us as the reader right
Speaker 2: to nineteen eighty seven. But tell us a little bit
Speaker 2: about this Parchment, Mississippi prison. You talk about when he
Speaker 2: was transferred there and then he angered a guard there,
Speaker 2: so he was put in a very bad prison, but
Speaker 2: a really bad place in a very bad prison. Tell
Speaker 2: us about this Parchment Mississippi State Penitentiary.
Speaker 3: Well, Parchman has a notorious reputation for being really hard
Speaker 3: on the prisoners there. There's a really long, interesting history
Speaker 3: and Parchman if you really want to take the time
Speaker 3: to look into it, but it definitely was not a
Speaker 3: place that folks wanted to be sent to to serve
Speaker 3: their sentences and any rolling when he went there, he
Speaker 3: had a he had a really rough time there. He
Speaker 3: was he was putting a really when I gather really
Speaker 3: older part of the prison there that was in really
Speaker 3: bad condition, and so he you know, he had to
Speaker 3: endure a quire a bit while he was there, and
Speaker 3: it apparently really affected him, you know, not just physically
Speaker 3: and emotionally, but psychologically as well.
Speaker 2: You talk about that he thought, or at least had
Speaker 2: said to administration that he was because he was a
Speaker 2: CoP's son, former cops son, that he wanted to be
Speaker 2: transferred to administrative segregation. So we're talking about placed in
Speaker 2: a place that's not so desirable for an inmate, would
Speaker 2: be segregation in any prison, correct.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean being being isolated and not having much
Speaker 3: contact with anyone else. It's like a prison within a prison.
Speaker 3: From from understanding.
Speaker 2: Now, something right out of it sounds like a fictional movie.
Speaker 2: You talk about a scene that she could be or
Speaker 2: it could not be, depends on if someone were to
Speaker 2: believe what this person was saying. And you talk about
Speaker 2: this Gemini. You describe this prisoner in these horrid conditions
Speaker 2: and his sanity tested by being in this prison. What
Speaker 2: is Gemini, Well, Gemini is something that Danny Rolling identified
Speaker 2: as the I believe that the cause of.
Speaker 3: The murders he ultimately ended up committing. And the way
Speaker 3: Rolling explained it was Gemini was this sort of demonic
Speaker 3: force that spoke to him while he was serving is
Speaker 3: hard time their imparchment under these really miserable conditions, and
Speaker 3: that offered him a way way to survive the experience.
Speaker 3: And this is something that he apparently believed occurred and
Speaker 3: ultimately ended up acting on.
Speaker 2: You say that Gemini gave him the ability to embrace
Speaker 2: the assurance of vengeance and pledging revenge for the countless
Speaker 2: injuries he had inflicted upon him, and a new sense
Speaker 2: of purpose had washed over him. With this, he didn't
Speaker 2: take the reader to August twenty sixth, nineteen ninety, Gainesville,
Speaker 2: Florida and a couple of students, Christina Powell. First, we
Speaker 2: talk about Christina Powell. She's seventeen years old and she
Speaker 2: has moved from Jacksonville to go to the University of
Speaker 2: Florida and gained Unville. The classes weren't start, she leaves
Speaker 2: before the weekend, So tell us she has a relationship
Speaker 2: with close relationship with her parents. Tell us what happens
Speaker 2: on that weekend on August nineteen ninety in Gainesville.
Speaker 3: Well, this is the weekend before classes were scheduled to
Speaker 3: start there at the University of Florida, and Christina was
Speaker 3: a freshman. She was an incoming freshman there at the college,
Speaker 3: and she had moved into a new apartment there in
Speaker 3: Gainesville along with her new roommate, another freshman in college there,
Speaker 3: and they were, you know, doing what any college kids
Speaker 3: do when they're getting ready to start their semester. They
Speaker 3: you know, they're trying to get their stuff moved in.
Speaker 3: They were, you know, looking around, trying to find some
Speaker 3: sort of part time job to work during school, and
Speaker 3: getting supply for the upcoming semester, all these sorts of things.
Speaker 3: And she was there for the weekend, and normally, I
Speaker 3: guess she called home quite often to talk to her parents,
Speaker 3: and her parents didn't hear from her for several days,
Speaker 3: and they really got worried about it and ultimately ended
Speaker 3: up driving over to Gainesville to see what was going on,
Speaker 3: to see why they hadn't heard from their daughter.
Speaker 2: Now, you talk about right at the apartment that they
Speaker 2: had to break in, there was a locked dead bolt,
Speaker 2: and as soon as they broke in, basically they could
Speaker 2: smell death as you write, and they found Sonja Larson.
Speaker 2: She was eighteen years old, her Christina's roommate. They find
Speaker 2: her first, what is the I know this is graphic.
Speaker 2: Well what's the condition of Sonia? How do they find her?
Speaker 2: And what's the condition?
Speaker 3: Well, that the body was already starting to show signs
Speaker 3: the decomposition, and uh, there were you know, readily apparent
Speaker 3: that she had been stabbed to death. There were stab
Speaker 3: wounds visible on her her shirt was there were there
Speaker 3: were stab wounds that could be seen on her arm,
Speaker 3: on her leg and chafts area, and you know you
Speaker 3: can imagine the bloody condition of the body.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was there.
Speaker 3: There was there was quite a bit of blood found
Speaker 3: all around there.
Speaker 2: Now you talk about too that there was also a
Speaker 2: large piece of flesh was cut from her upper thigh.
Speaker 2: And then another scene they'd come in, the perpetrators come
Speaker 2: in through the upstairs. So there was you say, a
Speaker 2: second scene, ghastly scene was downstairs and it was a
Speaker 2: nude body of Christina Powell. What is one of the
Speaker 2: things again very unw usual that that that they encountered
Speaker 2: when they saw the scene.
Speaker 3: Christina Powell, Well, like like Sonia Larson, she had been
Speaker 3: stabbed to death multiple stab wounds to her. But you know,
Speaker 3: like similar to what you mentioned about the flush green
Speaker 3: cut from Sonia leg with Christina her both of her
Speaker 3: nipples had been cut off, and her body had been
Speaker 3: arranged a certain way, you know, indicating that whoever had
Speaker 3: murdered her had you know, staged her body in a
Speaker 3: particular way and a band her hair out on to
Speaker 3: the side of her head and placed her in a
Speaker 3: certain position.
Speaker 2: There those other unusual things, like you said, there was
Speaker 2: he obscenely posed her with her legs spread, but also
Speaker 2: there was some effort to be able to clean up
Speaker 2: the scene with dis soap, and also that that he
Speaker 2: bound these women with duct tape, and that he had
Speaker 2: taken the duct tape away after he left. This this
Speaker 2: murder scene does what in this little college town on
Speaker 2: the very beginning of the college year.
Speaker 3: But it certain it certainly freaked everybody out, I guess
Speaker 3: the way to kind of sum it up, made everyone
Speaker 3: very much, very much weary, very much concerned. Nobody had
Speaker 3: any idea who this killer was, that had that had
Speaker 3: killed these two young girls inside their own apartment. So
Speaker 3: there was a lot of fear in Gainesville. Nobody knew
Speaker 3: who had done it. It could have been anybody. It
Speaker 3: could have been, you know, neighbor.
Speaker 2: And so how do police proceed in terms of trying
Speaker 2: to to deal with this looks like someone a killer
Speaker 2: around the loose, a mad killer on the loose.
Speaker 3: Well, you know, they started organizing the best they could
Speaker 3: investigating the murders. But before they could really even get
Speaker 3: going too far with their investigation of these murders, they
Speaker 3: found another body. So, you know, right right on the
Speaker 3: heels of the other body showed up.
Speaker 2: Now you talk about this third victim, this is Christa Hoyt,
Speaker 2: and very interestingly, she was working also part time as
Speaker 2: a clerk in the records Bureau of Alachua County Sheriff's office,
Speaker 2: and she failed to show up for a midnight work
Speaker 2: shift and so co workers sent a deputy to check
Speaker 2: on her. And that's how she was discovered again the
Speaker 2: lock department. And when he looked inside, what did he
Speaker 2: find that Crystal Hoyt's crime scene.
Speaker 3: Christmas crime scene was really I mean, they're all all
Speaker 3: these scenes were pretty gruesome, but but Christa's was the
Speaker 3: most gruesome. That what had been done to her, her body,
Speaker 3: you know, she had been she had been killed similarly
Speaker 3: to the other two victims, but her she had also
Speaker 3: been decapitated, and her head had been placed on a
Speaker 3: bookshelf next to the bed where her body was positioned.
Speaker 3: Her body had been cropped up on the edge of
Speaker 3: the bed as if it was sitting there, and her
Speaker 3: head was put on the bookcase side it positioned as
Speaker 3: if looking at the at the body. So the head
Speaker 3: the head was, you know, facing the body as if
Speaker 3: Christo was looking at her. Brown decapitated body there obviously
Speaker 3: meant to devote orror on whoever happened to find her.
Speaker 2: You also talk about the police afterwards. Again they were
Speaker 2: looking for some sort of witness, and her landlord told
Speaker 2: police that on August twenty fifth, he had noticed the
Speaker 2: gate latch had been unlocked, and so he just mentioned
Speaker 2: that to her and she thought, well, maybe it was
Speaker 2: maybe a television repairman or something in the area, and
Speaker 2: he hadn't thought much of it, but in retrospect he
Speaker 2: told police said what he had noticed with the latch.
Speaker 2: Now this is the third victim in Gainesville in two days.
Speaker 2: You talk about Gainesville Police Chief Whalon Clifton. He calls
Speaker 2: the Florida Department of Law Enforcement for help. He knows
Speaker 2: he's over his head by a long shot with this,
Speaker 2: doesn't he.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's too much for a coincidence to have the
Speaker 3: two girls bodies found one day, and then the very
Speaker 3: next stay to find this other body, you know, killed
Speaker 3: in a similar fashion. So so called the scigns were
Speaker 3: pointing to the same killer having done this, and so yeah,
Speaker 3: so Gainesville wasn't in a place that had an experience
Speaker 3: with a lot of murders, and to have this mini
Speaker 3: happened all at once, Yeah, certainly he decided he needed
Speaker 3: to call him some some outside help.
Speaker 2: He talked too that in this general area, but at
Speaker 2: least Florida for sure, and close by that another infamous
Speaker 2: serial killer had terrorized college town a decade before. Who
Speaker 2: was that?
Speaker 3: Maybe that was Ted Bundy, very well, a serial killer
Speaker 3: who killed, you know, he killed the different states, but
Speaker 3: in Florida and in Tallahassee, Florida. He was notorious for
Speaker 3: having attacked and killed number of state university students up there,
Speaker 3: and it was ultimately Cott not long afterward, I believe,
Speaker 3: around the Jacksonville area. But but yeah, Ted Bundy was
Speaker 3: certainly a notorious killer. And then you know, rolling ends
Speaker 3: up having a sort of a similar way of going
Speaker 3: about doing things, you know, instead of instead of killing
Speaker 3: college students in Tallahassee at Florida State, he's killing college
Speaker 3: students in Gainesville at the University of Florida.
Speaker 2: Yeah, let's get back to more murder. Unfortunately, August twenty eighth,
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety two more bodies are found. This time one
Speaker 2: was a male, Manuel Toboda, a twenty three year old,
Speaker 2: and Tracy Pauls is twenty three years old too, in
Speaker 2: their roommates, and this is about a mile from Christa
Speaker 2: Hoyt's home, so in the general area, and their stabbed
Speaker 2: to death. But tell us what a little bit about
Speaker 2: the background why Tracy moved in with men? Well, a
Speaker 2: little bit about the background about these two people before
Speaker 2: we talk a little bit more about the crime scene itself.
Speaker 2: Another ghastly affair.
Speaker 3: Well, Tracy in Manny at the Boda. They were friends
Speaker 3: from back in high school. They went to high school
Speaker 3: down in South Florida, and they became friends there near Miami.
Speaker 3: And they were a little bit older than the other victims.
Speaker 3: They were both twenty three. Of the leaves, whereas the
Speaker 3: other victims refreshming around eighteen, nineteen years old, so they
Speaker 3: were a couple of years older. They had known each
Speaker 3: other since high school and they were really good friends.
Speaker 3: And as you as you undicated, Tracy had been, you know,
Speaker 3: a little concerned about her safety. So she decided to
Speaker 3: be a good idea to be roommates with with Manny
Speaker 3: because well, for one man, he was was a male, obviously,
Speaker 3: but he's also a very barge male. He played high
Speaker 3: school and football. He was six foot two, so he
Speaker 3: was a he was a big, big guy. And uh,
Speaker 3: you know, she, you know, reasonably enough, figured that if
Speaker 3: she roomed with him, she'd be pretty safe.
Speaker 2: You also talk about that it's fascinating that since these
Speaker 2: murders are fresh and they're on people's minds and they
Speaker 2: have created such a panic among these college students, some
Speaker 2: of these college students have changed their mind. Their parents
Speaker 2: have said, come on back home, it's not worth it.
Speaker 2: But it was interesting if the father even implored her
Speaker 2: daughter to hang around Manny, stay by many be careful,
Speaker 2: and they talked about the murders. They did talk about
Speaker 2: keeping her safe. They had joked about it, they had
Speaker 2: mentioned it, they had spoke about it. They had cautioned her.
Speaker 2: Then you talk about Manny getting home from bartending at
Speaker 2: about one five am, tell us what he does when
Speaker 2: he gets home and what she's doing, and tell us
Speaker 2: what happens shortly after at three am.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's one of the you know, one of the
Speaker 3: scary things about the case is that, you know Trees,
Speaker 3: he's on the phone talking to her, her family and
Speaker 3: talking to her friend, her good friend, and you know,
Speaker 3: they're all worried about the fact that these other bodies
Speaker 3: have been discovered there, and they're they're cautioning her, warning
Speaker 3: her to be careful. And you know, it turns out
Speaker 3: that when she's on the phone having this conversation, the
Speaker 3: killers outside watching her on the phone the whole time. So,
Speaker 3: as you said, Manny had a job martending. I think
Speaker 3: it openigans there.
Speaker 6: So he came home early in the morning one thirty
Speaker 6: ish and came into the apartment and checked on went
Speaker 6: in and checked on Tracy after he got him and
Speaker 6: basically told.
Speaker 3: Her, Hey, I'm home, I'm really I'm beat, I'm tired,
Speaker 3: I'm going to bed and uh, and then went to bed.
Speaker 2: Now you say that someone obviously Danny Rowling was was
Speaker 2: watching and you get this information with the incredible access
Speaker 2: that you have to information afterwards, what does Danny Rowling do?
Speaker 2: How does he? Again, do you imagine a couple of
Speaker 2: people aware that there's a threat, and this guy that's
Speaker 2: an offensive guard in football, he's six foot two hundred pounds.
Speaker 2: How does Danny rolling do what he does? Well, once he.
Speaker 3: Gains access to the apartment, he enters in there and
Speaker 3: goes to to Manny's beggar first, and you know, he
Speaker 3: waits a while before before he enters the apartment to
Speaker 3: give him time to he sounds asleep. And then once
Speaker 3: he enters, he goes into Manny's apartment and stands over
Speaker 3: him and take that. At night, he has one of
Speaker 3: these these large marine fighting knives are called cabar knives,
Speaker 3: and he takes one and takes that out, and while
Speaker 3: Manny's sleeping on his back, he plunges it straight down
Speaker 3: into into Manny's chest and from there Manny wakes up
Speaker 3: abruptly obviously and gasp, and there's a there's a there's
Speaker 3: a there's a struggle there for I was described as
Speaker 3: a really bloody, rough struggle that went on as as
Speaker 3: Manny fought for his life, but ultimately he was overcome,
Speaker 3: you know, obviously caught caught by surprisal. He was sound
Speaker 3: asleep and he he was stabbed to death. Another very
Speaker 3: very bloody crime scene. And then while that was happening, Tracy,
Speaker 3: who had gone to bed as well, heard the commotion
Speaker 3: and peered at her door down the hall and saw
Speaker 3: the killer come out of Anny's room. And you know,
Speaker 3: she screamed and closed her door and locked the door
Speaker 3: and tried to get away, but he pursued down the
Speaker 3: hall and kicked in her door and attacked her.
Speaker 2: Now, you say, that's very interesting too, that Tracy's friend Lisa,
Speaker 2: the next day couldn't reach her, and so she calls
Speaker 2: another friend called Tommy Carroll, and that's how their bodies
Speaker 2: were discovered at the gate where Gator Wood's apartment. Neither
Speaker 2: body been mutilated. But another fascinating part of this was
Speaker 2: that when he had gone there, there was a black
Speaker 2: bag and he ran to obviously alert police. What was
Speaker 2: an incredible strange thing that was seen by police after
Speaker 2: he mentioned this bag? What tell us about the the bag?
Speaker 3: This is an interesting back too, is this this bag
Speaker 3: that was mentioned that I believe it was the Gator
Speaker 3: Road apartments maintenance guy or you know, maintenance car care
Speaker 3: taker there at the apartment complex was the one that
Speaker 3: you know, opened the door. And when he opened up
Speaker 3: the door, he saw the bag was there laying there
Speaker 3: on the floor beside the body, this black bagage you mentioned.
Speaker 3: And the door was actually I believe it was unlocked
Speaker 3: when he did that, and so when he opened it,
Speaker 3: he saw the body and the bag there. And the
Speaker 3: bag they closed the doorback after that because you know,
Speaker 3: obviously they saw this body there, so they kind of
Speaker 3: shocked and they closed the doorback and went to know
Speaker 3: the fight the police. And when the police did show
Speaker 3: up and go back into the apartment, the bag was gone.
Speaker 2: Now what did that well, we'll just I don't know,
Speaker 2: jump ahead, but what did that indicate two police that
Speaker 2: compared to the other crime scenes, what had happened with
Speaker 2: this bag? What did that indicate was different from those
Speaker 2: other crime scenes.
Speaker 3: They indicated that the killer was still inside the apartment
Speaker 3: when these individuals went there to check on Tracy and
Speaker 3: many there, the killer was still inside and was interrupted
Speaker 3: and whatever he was wanting to do at the time,
Speaker 3: he had the other the other difference there, you know,
Speaker 3: there was this black bag that was apparently seen. The
Speaker 3: other difference was that the body there weren't you displayed
Speaker 3: in any sort of manner like you had like the
Speaker 3: other bodies to benet the other crimes scenes. So another
Speaker 3: indication that the killer had been interrupted and had to
Speaker 3: flee the scene before he had wanted to.
Speaker 2: You talk about too, that the headlines in the newspapers
Speaker 2: now are lust killer toll now five and you're talking
Speaker 2: about the headlines. And they also talk about in the articles,
Speaker 2: hundreds leave the school. Change their mind, Like I say, parents,
Speaker 2: they get out of there. Now. This is five dead
Speaker 2: and three days. You also chronicle in the book too
Speaker 2: that the residents in this panic bought out the city
Speaker 2: supply dead bolt stun guns, mace, shotguns, rifles, baseball bats.
Speaker 2: And this definitely, definitely absolutely changed everyone's attitude and behavior
Speaker 2: in this community, didn't it.
Speaker 3: Yes, it was the mass panic and everyone and as
Speaker 3: she said, they cleaned out the local supply stores of
Speaker 3: all these sort of you know, defensive weapons and shotguns,
Speaker 3: baseball bats, all these sorts of things, stun guns, and
Speaker 3: there was a there was a mass accidents of students.
Speaker 3: Hundreds thousands of students left the University of Florida at
Speaker 3: the best of their parents, their worry parents, and you know,
Speaker 3: out of out of their own fear for their own
Speaker 3: safety as well.
Speaker 2: Yes, absolutely, let's use this as an opportunity JT. To
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Speaker 2: about the panic that was ensuing in Gainesville. How do
Speaker 2: police approach this and at the same time, where is
Speaker 2: Danny ruling well in.
Speaker 3: Response to these multiple murders, and obviously they seem to
Speaker 3: be the work of the same killer, and there seems
Speaker 3: to be a serial killer on the loose there in Gainesville.
Speaker 3: The Gainesville police there they combined forces. They have the
Speaker 3: the Sheriff's office there musta county sheriff's office. They have
Speaker 3: the City of Gainesville police, and they also have the
Speaker 3: University of University of Florida police there and they also
Speaker 3: brought in the Florida Department of Law Enforcement. So they
Speaker 3: combined forces with all these agencies to form a task force.
Speaker 3: They investigate these these five burners. Of these five teams,
Speaker 3: those students.
Speaker 2: You also say, they even bring in profilers, and again
Speaker 2: the famous John Douglas and another one came named Jim Wright.
Speaker 2: They are very taken very seriously. These profiles emerged from
Speaker 2: this becomes a suspect and when John Douglas looks at
Speaker 2: them and Jim Wright, they think that this is a
Speaker 2: real good suspect based on some of the circumstances and
Speaker 2: some of the background of this perpetrator. What happens with
Speaker 2: is Edward Humphrey, a nineteen year old part time student
Speaker 2: at the University of Florida, how does he become a
Speaker 2: prime suspect.
Speaker 3: Well, during the investigation, the police had been interviewing residents
Speaker 3: at the different apartment comps where the where the murders
Speaker 3: took place, and as part of that, they spoke to
Speaker 3: some students there at Florida who told the police about
Speaker 3: a former roommate that they had and they described this
Speaker 3: roommate as acting very strangely and as having you know,
Speaker 3: voiced things against female like his ex girlfriend and things
Speaker 3: like this, and also apparently he had had some sort
Speaker 3: of fixation on one of the victims on Terracy Paulis
Speaker 3: and he had lived at the Gatorwead apartments for some time.
Speaker 3: So the when the police learned this, this this person
Speaker 3: being shot up on the list of suspects and became
Speaker 3: their top suspect. And you know, you mentioned his name,
Speaker 3: Ed Humphrey. He was a nineteen year old time student
Speaker 3: there at University of Florida. He was he was a
Speaker 3: big guy, over six feet tall and over two hundred pounds,
Speaker 3: and he had, you know, In researching him, they found
Speaker 3: out that he had had a number of encounters with
Speaker 3: various beliefs over over the years and recently as well,
Speaker 3: and they also discovered that he had a history of
Speaker 3: manic depression and a lot of strange behavior in the past.
Speaker 3: So he was certainly someone they were they were focused
Speaker 3: in on. They they really thought he was going to
Speaker 3: be the guy that that had done her.
Speaker 2: Right. Now, you take us in the book, though, at
Speaker 2: the same time, we're tuxtaposing back and forth from Danny
Speaker 2: Rowlings Danny Rowlings past, and you talk about the I guess,
Speaker 2: the progression and evolution of this guy as a criminal
Speaker 2: and then as a killer, a rapist and a killer.
Speaker 2: Tell us about some of the background what happens to
Speaker 2: him there is, of course, when we get later in
Speaker 2: all kinds in the mitigatings portion of the sentencing, there's
Speaker 2: all kinds of stories come out about things that could
Speaker 2: be indicative of something attributed to this killing spree later on.
Speaker 2: But tell us a little bit about Danny rolling in
Speaker 2: his background that you're chronicle in the book.
Speaker 3: Yeah. The way the narrative is presented, as you said,
Speaker 3: it goes back and forth. The chapters alternate between between
Speaker 3: between the prisoner who we meet at the very beginning
Speaker 3: of the book and partsment prison who as it turns
Speaker 3: out later it's Danny Rolling, and so we follow this
Speaker 3: this prisoner, how he ends up in Partsman prison, and
Speaker 3: then what happened after he gets out of parts From prison,
Speaker 3: and then we followed that thread all the way up
Speaker 3: through into the murders in Gainesville and then moved forward
Speaker 3: from there. So he Danny Rowling, had a had a
Speaker 3: rough past. We talked about his time in parts From prison,
Speaker 3: and you know, obviously he did things to the merit
Speaker 3: being there, and as you said, he did have this
Speaker 3: this uh you know, escalating background of of of crimes
Speaker 3: that he occurred, and it all trades back to his
Speaker 3: his family life. He had a he had a very
Speaker 3: domineering father figure, a very very rough figure, and according
Speaker 3: to to Danny Rolling, his father was abusive not just
Speaker 3: to Danny, but to his brother and to his mother
Speaker 3: as well. And there were a lot of incidences between
Speaker 3: fivether and son in the past and a lot of
Speaker 3: you know, degrading, humiliating, and you know, physically violent incidents
Speaker 3: between father and Danny Rolling, and those are all detailed
Speaker 3: in the book. And that you know, this leads to
Speaker 3: a really violent confrontation with his father when he gets older,
Speaker 3: resulting in him having a gunfight with his father, uh
Speaker 3: and and he ends up shooting his father in their home.
Speaker 3: And you know, and also you know, in the in
Speaker 3: the the time periods meeting up to that as well,
Speaker 3: Danny Rolling as a as a teenager, he starts this
Speaker 3: lifelong habit of peeping in windows. And he's introduced to this,
Speaker 3: apparently by a friend of his there when he's a
Speaker 3: teenager hearing in the window of a of a neighbor's
Speaker 3: house where the daughter is a cheerleader, you know, the
Speaker 3: local high school, and you know, seeing her undressing and things.
Speaker 3: And so this is something that Daniel only becomes essentially
Speaker 3: addicted to for the rest of his life and something
Speaker 3: he does, you know, thereafter. And this this peeping and
Speaker 3: windows eventually graduates into breaking into homes and you know,
Speaker 3: of course there's some robbery, some theft involved in that,
Speaker 3: but it also escalates into rapes, you know, violent encounters
Speaker 3: with women in these places you would kind of spy
Speaker 3: on these women and then breaking their houses and rape
Speaker 3: them and just escalated as well. And you know, eventually,
Speaker 3: as we see it would be ultimately the result of
Speaker 3: it is that the murders in Gainesville and you know,
Speaker 3: it turns out there was another murder scene before the
Speaker 3: Gamesville ones as well.
Speaker 2: Let's talk about the Grissoms. Youngest was Sean. That's a Tom,
Speaker 2: and uh, she's there's three Julie, I believe. Tell us
Speaker 2: about the three Grissoms and the crime scene that police
Speaker 2: found there.
Speaker 7: Yeah, so the gris Tom was the father fifty five,
Speaker 7: Sean was the boy, he was eight, and Julie was
Speaker 7: twenty four.
Speaker 3: She was the daughter. So the three of them were
Speaker 3: found murdered at Tom Grissom's home where Julie was living
Speaker 3: with her father there, and then Sean was there for
Speaker 3: the weekend, staying with him, and the three of them
Speaker 3: were found murdered in nineteen eighty nine in Shreveport, Louisiana,
Speaker 3: and it was another violent murder scene, stabbings. All three
Speaker 3: of them have been stabbed to death, and Julie had
Speaker 3: been you know, there were signs that Julie had been
Speaker 3: raped as well as being murdered, and you know, like these,
Speaker 3: like several of the scenes in Gainesville, Julie's body had
Speaker 3: been left a certain way, the killer had had staged
Speaker 3: her body a certain way, and it was just another
Speaker 3: another really sad, violent murder site. And you know, it
Speaker 3: turns out that Rolling had been fired from a job
Speaker 3: the very day of the murders, the same day that
Speaker 3: the family was murdered, had been fired from a job
Speaker 3: at a restaurant. In report, and you know, I don't
Speaker 3: know how far you want me to jump ahead, but
Speaker 3: you know, it turns out if you're looking into it too, Rolling,
Speaker 3: Danny Rolling had been you know, he ran at the
Speaker 3: same park that Julie ran at, and you know, would
Speaker 3: have could have bumped into her at various locations, you know,
Speaker 3: prior to this, and he wasn't than so you know,
Speaker 3: it wasn't it wasn't just a fure random sort of killing.
Speaker 3: He had obviously had contact with Julie and targeted her.
Speaker 2: Now let's jump ahead to well, we have the funerals.
Speaker 2: You chronicle the funerals for the five people, and you say,
Speaker 2: earlier that morning police had spotted a man in camouflage
Speaker 2: pants near the third crime scene, and yet he got away,
Speaker 2: and they they sent police dogs, helicopters, they couldn't find them.
Speaker 2: Yet at the same time that they had that incident,
Speaker 2: very again movie esque, you say, the police are announcing
Speaker 2: that they're very close to an arrest, very close to
Speaker 2: an arrest of who.
Speaker 3: Well, they thought their sights set on Ed Humphrey. You know,
Speaker 3: they were convinced this guy was their guy. And you know,
Speaker 3: also there was also another name that came up as
Speaker 3: someone that they were looking at as well, who had
Speaker 3: at his own violent history and apparently had attacked a
Speaker 3: woman with a knife or something. So they definitely had
Speaker 3: these suspects that were high up on the lists, you know,
Speaker 3: chief of which was Ed Humphrey.
Speaker 2: You talk about July nineteen ninety, he goes to Tallahassee.
Speaker 2: Danny Rowland closed to Tallahassee again the place where Ted
Speaker 2: Bundy perpetrated his crimes, but he's using an alias called
Speaker 2: Michael Kennedy Junior. He checks into a travel lodge with
Speaker 2: this stolen idea ID hard me and tell us about
Speaker 2: this recording he makes to his family in Sarasota and
Speaker 2: then tell us about the content of that recording, what's
Speaker 2: in that? And then where does he go August twenty third, Yes.
Speaker 3: So Rolling arrived in Tallahassee in mid June, and you know, coincidentally,
Speaker 3: this is where he purchases the murder weapon, the screen
Speaker 3: bar knife, and from there he goes to Sarah's the
Speaker 3: Sarasota area, and this is where while he's there staying
Speaker 3: at a at a motel there is where he's he
Speaker 3: begins with this tape that you mentioned. You know, it's
Speaker 3: just one of these old tape recorders, audio tape recorders,
Speaker 3: and it's it's a message to his family and he's
Speaker 3: just you know, kind of letting to know his his thoughts,
Speaker 3: you know, kind of reflecting back and you know, the
Speaker 3: bad relationship they've had, father and son, and thoughts about
Speaker 3: his mother and things like this. And then he ends
Speaker 3: up continuing this tape recording after he gets to Gainesville.
Speaker 3: He arrives in Gainesville in mid August around the eighteenth
Speaker 3: I believe it was arise by Greyhound in Gainesville, and
Speaker 3: first he checks into a hotel again, but after about
Speaker 3: about a week or so, he checks out of that
Speaker 3: hotel and ends up setting up a camp in a
Speaker 3: wooded area there in Gainesville, sets up a tent in
Speaker 3: a wooded area there, and the night he does that
Speaker 3: is when he continues this tape recording to his family.
Speaker 3: And there's a lot of dominance statements in the tape
Speaker 3: recording to his family and especially the end of it,
Speaker 3: he mentioned that he has he has something he has
Speaker 3: to do and he has to sign off because he
Speaker 3: has something he has has to do, and that's when
Speaker 3: the tike stops. And you know, turns out that from
Speaker 3: there is when he started the first events that led
Speaker 3: to the first murder. In a game of.
Speaker 2: Book, mm hmm, you say too. On the tape, there's
Speaker 2: a whole lot of singing going on too. He writes
Speaker 2: his own songs, and so he's singing quite a few
Speaker 2: songs on the tape as well. You write in the
Speaker 2: book again, this is eerie. We mentioned that Gemini right
Speaker 2: in the opening of this and right in the opening
Speaker 2: of your book. We talk about the Gemini, the demon,
Speaker 2: the the voice that he was embodied him, I guess.
Speaker 2: And but interestingly enough, I'm a fan of this movie
Speaker 2: like a lot of people. Exorcist three. You say that
Speaker 2: in this, in this campground that he has, he he
Speaker 2: that he's staying at just previous to this incredible murder spree,
Speaker 2: he goes to the theater to see Extorsist three. Extissist three,
Speaker 2: as you write, the movie features a decapitation and a
Speaker 2: killer possessed by a demon. What's that demon's name in
Speaker 2: that movie, and what is rolling astrological sign.
Speaker 3: Jim and I is the demon's name, and that's also
Speaker 3: rolling sign. So you know, coincidence or it was the
Speaker 3: influenced by the film the make up this Gemini story,
Speaker 3: you know, That's that's the question that lingers out there.
Speaker 3: But he, you know, he obviously he insists that it
Speaker 3: was just pure coincidence that he was at the hitter
Speaker 3: there and saw them that Jim and I was the
Speaker 3: name there this this demon. But uh, you know, getting
Speaker 3: back to that opening of the book and this this
Speaker 3: encounter with Gemini demonic force there, there certainly seems to
Speaker 3: be some sort of connection there.
Speaker 2: Talk about too, that he has a gun. We mentioned
Speaker 2: that he talks about later that night, you write about
Speaker 2: that later that night he was caught by a security
Speaker 2: guard peeping into another window, but he gets away. August
Speaker 2: twenty seventh, he robs a bank with a gun and
Speaker 2: he tells again, you capture this, and he says, there
Speaker 2: better not be any die packs, And of course there's
Speaker 2: die packs and they explode. But the more interesting thing
Speaker 2: is that a police officer sees two men walk into
Speaker 2: the woods, one white man, one black man, I guess
Speaker 2: thinks it's kind of odd, and he calls for backup.
Speaker 2: And what do they find at this campsite, even though
Speaker 2: again Danny Rowling is able to escape. What do they
Speaker 2: find at this campsite?
Speaker 3: Yeah, so this is August twenty seventh, and it's the
Speaker 3: same date the Crystal Hoyt's body is discovered. Is when
Speaker 3: they rolling robs this bank there in Gamesville. It's the
Speaker 3: first Union Bank, and he uses a gun as part
Speaker 3: of the robbery, as you said, and the exploding ink
Speaker 3: in the in the bag of money as he's running away,
Speaker 3: you know, the ink explodes. And then the next the
Speaker 3: next day there is when the police, who are you know,
Speaker 3: investigating the are aware of the robbery, the bank robbery
Speaker 3: in the area. And when they come upon this these
Speaker 3: two men, this white male and this black male that
Speaker 3: you know, they do him, you know, stop basically, and
Speaker 3: the black male stops, but the white male takes off
Speaker 3: running and he runs into the woods swooded area nearby,
Speaker 3: and the police chase him into there and they end
Speaker 3: up coming across the campsite there, links campsite, and they're
Speaker 3: at the campsite, they find quite a few things. They
Speaker 3: find the the bag of money, you know, they ink
Speaker 3: stained money. They find a ski mask used in the robbery,
Speaker 3: and they find a gun as well, among some other things.
Speaker 3: And this is also where they find the the tape recording.
Speaker 3: Actually also they find the tape recorder with the tape there,
Speaker 3: but they don't they don't ever listen to it apparently
Speaker 3: until quite quite some time later.
Speaker 2: Now, the thing is, he's he's an elusive guy and
Speaker 2: he has a lot of luck. Later he attributes that
Speaker 2: to again to the demon. But where does he go next?
Speaker 2: Because again, police are still not on his trail, are
Speaker 2: they fully now?
Speaker 3: They yeah, they're still they're still after Ed Humphrey, who
Speaker 3: you know, has since been arrested in Bavard County in
Speaker 3: Florida for assault and his grandmother and so he's in
Speaker 3: custody and facing charges for that. But they still, you know,
Speaker 3: they still like him for the murders of the five students.
Speaker 3: So Rowling's not even on their radar at this point.
Speaker 3: They don't have any idea that Rolling, this guy Rolling
Speaker 3: could potentially be the one that committed the murders. So
Speaker 3: they're still after Humphrey. They still think he's their guy.
Speaker 3: And meanwhile, rolling is you know, from Gainesville. He robs
Speaker 3: this bank and then he goes from Gainesville, he goes
Speaker 3: to Tampa, commits some home invasions there, stealing things the
Speaker 3: rob's a grocery store there and some other things. Steals
Speaker 3: a car while he's there, and then ends up in O'calla, Florida,
Speaker 3: and rob's a winn Dixie grocery store there in O'calla,
Speaker 3: And just so happens that when when he does that,
Speaker 3: but there's police nearby there, and you know, they're able
Speaker 3: to respond pretty quickly, and so a chase and sues,
Speaker 3: a car chase and sues until he crashes his car
Speaker 3: again kind of kind of moves like a movie scene
Speaker 3: like you mentioned before. You know, you have his car
Speaker 3: chase and crashes the car and then Lease has been
Speaker 3: been arrested. But again so they take him into custody.
Speaker 3: They arrest him for the robbery again having no idea
Speaker 3: that he's you know, connected to these murders that are
Speaker 3: you know, so so dominating the efforts of the police
Speaker 3: and in Gamesville.
Speaker 2: And then yet this is another incredible part of this
Speaker 2: story is that Humphreys now is just destroyed in the
Speaker 2: media when investigators leak information and the media runs with
Speaker 2: the allegations and he's destroyed. Meanwhile, you say that they
Speaker 2: contact Anne Rule and her incredible experience with Ted Bundy
Speaker 2: and being this preminent premier of a true crime writer
Speaker 2: and investigator, former former police officer. She was asked whether
Speaker 2: Humphreys was their man. What did she say.
Speaker 3: I'm trying to remember exactly what she said. I don't
Speaker 3: recall exactly. Might have to help me out there a
Speaker 3: little bit, but she didn't.
Speaker 2: Think She didn't think he fitted. She said that he
Speaker 2: wasn't sophisticated enough. She said definitely that the case resembled
Speaker 2: Bundy was addicted to murder, but she said he was
Speaker 2: too young and she didn't think so not sophisticated enough.
Speaker 2: Because I guess she's.
Speaker 3: Being comment too as well, because it's it's an observation
Speaker 3: or conclusion that some other folks that looked at the
Speaker 3: case got too that it just didn't seem like Humphrey,
Speaker 3: you know, had the ability to pull these kind of
Speaker 3: ryme's off and be able to get away with it
Speaker 3: like this killer had. You know, even though that even
Speaker 3: though the crime scenes were very bloody, you know, and
Speaker 3: messy in that sort of way. They were also very
Speaker 3: clean in another sort of way, and that there wasn't
Speaker 3: any real evidence left behind for you know, investigators to
Speaker 3: make a case with. So you know, these these people
Speaker 3: like you mentioned Ann Rule and then some of these
Speaker 3: other outside folks that looked at it, you know, didn't
Speaker 3: think that that Humphrey would be able to do this
Speaker 3: sort of thing because he was so disorganized as an individual,
Speaker 3: you know, due to his you know, his history of
Speaker 3: mental illness among other things. So, yeah, it was an
Speaker 3: interesting observation.
Speaker 2: You put in. You read in September nineteen ninety rolling
Speaker 2: Please Guilty darm robbery at the Winn Dixie and he
Speaker 2: pleads for leniency, but he gets a life sentence with
Speaker 2: the habitual felony offenders. So while in custody makes statements
Speaker 2: about the Gainesville killer and things like they'll never catch him.
Speaker 2: Then you also write on January, well, January February ninety
Speaker 2: one tip from Shreveport resident Cindy Dobbin, who had met him.
Speaker 2: She said fifteen years earlier at the United Pentecostal Church.
Speaker 2: What did she tell them? And what did she tell them?
Speaker 2: And then regarding the Grissom murders, and her experience with
Speaker 2: this man fifteen years earlier.
Speaker 3: Well, she called in to suggests that they take a
Speaker 3: hard look at Danny Rowling as a suspect and the
Speaker 3: murders based on her asked experience with him. And you know,
Speaker 3: at the time, I don't believe that they gave it
Speaker 3: the priority that you know, ultimately it narrated unfortunately.
Speaker 2: So how is it they come to take a look
Speaker 2: at Danny Rolling because you right, Mastery that basically the police,
Speaker 2: no matter what, even when they find a connection with
Speaker 2: the Grissom murders, with the other five murders, that they'd
Speaker 2: still think comphies involve somehow. Tell us how this progresses
Speaker 2: to the point where finally Danny Rowling is identified.
Speaker 3: Well, there's ultimately there's some communications between the street for
Speaker 3: police and the Gainesville investigators there, and some of the
Speaker 3: detectives from Gainesville go up to Shreveport to you know,
Speaker 3: talk to the investigators there and you know read the
Speaker 3: case file and kind of see the similarities in the
Speaker 3: prize and there's certainly some some real similarities there that
Speaker 3: raised some red flags that these are potentially committed by
Speaker 3: the same guy. And you know, meantime, Danny Rowlings in
Speaker 3: jail from the robbery sentence, and so the Gainesville police
Speaker 3: start considering him as a as a possible suspect as well,
Speaker 3: and they're able to get DNA samples from him. He
Speaker 3: gets a tooth taken out while he's there in jail,
Speaker 3: and they're able to get a hold of the you know,
Speaker 3: the the bloody gods and stuff that's left over from
Speaker 3: that procedure and use it to the test of DNA,
Speaker 3: and ultimately that DNA comes back as a match for
Speaker 3: I believe it was the Anne Larson, No, I think
Speaker 3: it was. Maybe it was the Crystal Hoye ended up
Speaker 3: matching one of the bodies that ended up matching scene there,
Speaker 3: so they certainly had revidence pointing at Rolling by that point.
Speaker 2: It's very interesting too, because this story, I mean, we're
Speaker 2: not going to have enough time to go into this
Speaker 2: because it's such an involved, wild story. Once they have
Speaker 2: him in custody, there emerges an inmate again. It's amazing
Speaker 2: about American justice is how many people want to come
Speaker 2: forward once they're in prison and turn informant. There's a
Speaker 2: Robert Bobby Lewis, former death row. Now he's doing a
Speaker 2: life sentence and Sondra London just tell us about Sondra
Speaker 2: London and Bobby Lewis and what these two people we're
Speaker 2: thinking of doing and planning to do.
Speaker 6: Well.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Bobby Lewis, as he said, he was an inmate
Speaker 3: there and he heard about Danny Rolling, and you know,
Speaker 3: he ended up working the same floor area in the
Speaker 3: prison where Danny was being held, and so he went
Speaker 3: out of his way to introduce himself and meet Danny
Speaker 3: Rolling and struck up a friendship with him. Danny was
Speaker 3: apparently impressed that Bobby Lewis had at one time escaped
Speaker 3: from death row walked out of the prison broad daylight
Speaker 3: by impersonating one of the guards there, essentially, and so
Speaker 3: that really impressed Danny, and so they struck up this
Speaker 3: friendship and Danny started revealing details about some of the
Speaker 3: crimes that had been committed to Bobby Lewis. And so
Speaker 3: Bobby Lewis reached out to Saundra London, who he knew
Speaker 3: from for because she is a true crime writer and
Speaker 3: she had you know, I've been working on some books
Speaker 3: with some of the inmates there, including Bobby Lewis, and
Speaker 3: so he reached out to her and started telling her
Speaker 3: about his contact with Danny Rolling, and that eventually led
Speaker 3: to Bobby Lewis talking to investigators about the crimes. And
Speaker 3: you know, kind of the one of the odd things
Speaker 3: about it is Danny Rowling seems to know the whole
Speaker 3: time that Bobby Lewis is sharing this information, but keeps
Speaker 3: giving him the information anyway, and then ultimately uses Bobby
Speaker 3: as his mouthpiece to confess to the killings the game's
Speaker 3: will killing.
Speaker 2: The controversy is though, that Sondra London becomes involved much
Speaker 2: more than would say a typical journalist would have get
Speaker 2: involved in writing a story. Tell us what the controversy
Speaker 2: he is regarding her.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Sondra becomes romantically involved with Danny and she starts,
Speaker 3: she agrees to work with him on writing his story.
Speaker 3: And so you know, they're gonna they're gonna write the
Speaker 3: story about Danny Rowling and murders and everything, and you know,
Speaker 3: make money off of this. And you know, meanwhile, Danny
Speaker 3: also he's also kind of this artist and he makes
Speaker 3: these sketches and drawings and things in addition to being
Speaker 3: a songwriter, and so he's sending her these things as well,
Speaker 3: and she's you know, selling these artworks to people who
Speaker 3: like to collect those sort of things and making money
Speaker 3: off of the hat. And she enters into these book
Speaker 3: deals and interview deals with these different media outlets and things,
Speaker 3: and he's making money off of this as well, to
Speaker 3: be like the exclusive source of Dannie Rowling's story. So,
Speaker 3: as you said it starts, it's a big controversy and
Speaker 3: the fact that you know she's trying to profit off
Speaker 3: these crimes. He's trying to profit basically off these crimes,
Speaker 3: and so it's a whole nother threat of the story.
Speaker 2: Really, he goes to trial. Obviously, this is a death
Speaker 2: penalty case, and that's why we have this. We can
Speaker 2: say right now it takes sixteen years to get to
Speaker 2: for Jeb Bush to sign an order for the death
Speaker 2: warrant sixteen years later, and we could talk about the
Speaker 2: trial as well, just when he goes to trial. You
Speaker 2: know what I thought was incredible, and you write in
Speaker 2: a book, is that when we got to that sentencing,
Speaker 2: the forces that want this person put to death and
Speaker 2: then of course the forces that don't believe in the
Speaker 2: death penalty at all. I found it again even more
Speaker 2: over the top than normal. Considering the crime scene photos
Speaker 2: that the jurors would have to see. And yet everybody
Speaker 2: in that including the jurors, got to see the blown
Speaker 2: up photos of the crime scenes blocked out for the
Speaker 2: more gruesome parts. But just I couldn't imagine the family
Speaker 2: and everyone having to endure those kinds of photos just
Speaker 2: to be able to try to put this person to death,
Speaker 2: which took forever.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was a lengthy process, as the definitely cases
Speaker 3: tend to be. You know, the interesting thing in the
Speaker 3: case here is that, you know, the day of jury selection,
Speaker 3: you know, the prosecution and defense were all geared up,
Speaker 3: building their caps up over months and months and months
Speaker 3: and getting ready for what they anticipated would be a
Speaker 3: long trial that's a determined guilt. But on the first
Speaker 3: day of trial, there a jury selection. The first day
Speaker 3: of jury selection, Danny informed the judge he wanted to
Speaker 3: lead guilty, and you know, it's stunned everybody except for
Speaker 3: the judge and the state attorney who had learned this,
Speaker 3: you know, several days before. But everyone else in the
Speaker 3: court was stunned because they all expected this long, involved,
Speaker 3: grueling trial. But but Dani ended up leading guilty to
Speaker 3: it in kind of this dramatic sort of fashion, and
Speaker 3: you know, his statement is in the book about why
Speaker 3: he does that and everything as well. But so from
Speaker 3: there the guilt has been established and the rest of
Speaker 3: the trial is just devoted to, you know, whether the
Speaker 3: death penalty should be imposed, and ultimately it is after
Speaker 3: you know, testimony from a lot of psychological experts about
Speaker 3: why Danny did what he did and his capacity to
Speaker 3: understand it and all these sorts of things, and that's
Speaker 3: all detailed as well in the book. But he does
Speaker 3: end up ultimately receiving the dust penalty and uh, you know,
Speaker 3: as you said, years and years years years later, the
Speaker 3: sentence is finally carried out, that the jeth warrant is
Speaker 3: signed by the governor who is debush at the time,
Speaker 3: and in the sentencing date or the execution date this
Speaker 3: was scheduled.
Speaker 2: There was talk of people being suspicious of the pleaf
Speaker 2: the guilty plea at the last minute. What was some
Speaker 2: people's idea the motivation for him doing that.
Speaker 3: Well, he claimed that it was to spare the families
Speaker 3: and the victims from having to endure hearing the customery,
Speaker 3: seeing the photos of their off ones and all these
Speaker 3: kinds of things. But you know, other people think that
Speaker 3: he was doing it out of completely out of self interest,
Speaker 3: that he wanted to try to avoid the death penalty,
Speaker 3: and that's the whole reason why he went ahead and
Speaker 3: played guilty, is to try to avoid getting a death center.
Speaker 2: In this. It was interesting too, when you have these
Speaker 2: death penalty cases that there really does come out, at least,
Speaker 2: whether it's part fiction or completely true. There is the
Speaker 2: background from the mothers and the fathers and the brothers
Speaker 2: that come and try to say things to war off
Speaker 2: to avoid basically the death penalty, even though it seems hopeless.
Speaker 2: What were the kinds of things that they said. I
Speaker 2: found it very, very fascinating that it came out that
Speaker 2: an incident that James, his father had witnessed when he
Speaker 2: was a child. Tell us about that incident that came
Speaker 2: out basically at this the penalty phase of this trial,
Speaker 2: there was.
Speaker 3: A lot of family history and the rolling family there
Speaker 3: of mental illness and Danny's father, James, he had his
Speaker 3: own mental illness issues and when he was younger he
Speaker 3: had witnessed his grandmother. I believe it was his grandmother
Speaker 3: that killed his grandfather if I have, If I recall correctly,
Speaker 3: you know, we were at the at the Kidsten table.
Speaker 3: So this is something that that James had witnessed when
Speaker 3: he was younger, and so this had obviously impacted James
Speaker 3: uh and and something that that got passed along, you know,
Speaker 3: and you know, he kind of was the father visiting
Speaker 3: the sins of his father, so to speak. On on
Speaker 3: Danny Rolling eventually as well. So so the family had
Speaker 3: had this history of mental illness. Other members of the
Speaker 3: family had these sort of mental issues as well, So
Speaker 3: that all came out during the trial. And one of
Speaker 3: the really interesting things also, I thought was Danny's Dannie
Speaker 3: Rowlings explanation as to, you know, ultimately why he had
Speaker 3: stopped killing when he did. You know, he killed the
Speaker 3: five in Gainesville and then stopped, you know, right, he
Speaker 3: could have kept going because nobody had any idea who
Speaker 3: he was at the time, but he stopped. In the
Speaker 3: explanation he gave for this later was that he had,
Speaker 3: you know, in this kind of demonic sort of contract
Speaker 3: he entered into with this Gemini Force that he had
Speaker 3: agreed that he was going to you know, extract his
Speaker 3: vengeance and make it equivalent to what he had endured it. So,
Speaker 3: since he was imprisoned for eight years of his life,
Speaker 3: he was going to murder eight victims, and so he
Speaker 3: killed the five in Gainesville and then you know, as
Speaker 3: it turns out, he had you know, killed the three
Speaker 3: Grissom family members as well, So for these eight victims
Speaker 3: in total.
Speaker 2: Yeah, not to say that this guy is a good
Speaker 2: guy in any conceivable way. But shortly before his execution,
Speaker 2: rolling sent to Shriekport Reverend Mike Hudspith, he shipped him,
Speaker 2: sent him a letter or slipped him a letter pardon me,
Speaker 2: confessing to the three Grissom murders of nineteen eighty nine.
Speaker 2: That was very interesting.
Speaker 3: I thought, Yeah, it's another another one of these kind
Speaker 3: of cinematic kind of events in this in the story
Speaker 3: that you know, the Grissom murders when they when they happened.
Speaker 3: Of course, you know that the police back then had
Speaker 3: had a suspect in mind. They had DUI's you know,
Speaker 3: ex ex boyfriend at their top suspect, and kind of
Speaker 3: like there's a similar parallel there with Ed Humphrey. How
Speaker 3: Ed Humphrey was kind of dragged through the media, yeah,
Speaker 3: to the public and his reputation damaged and things. The
Speaker 3: same thing with Julie's ex ex boyfriend who was he
Speaker 3: went through the same thing, you know, for those murders,
Speaker 3: and he actually came to the execution, was was outside
Speaker 3: with the crowd that was gathered there, you know, the
Speaker 3: pro and the against, and you know, it was was
Speaker 3: all this time hoping that Rolling would finally confess to
Speaker 3: the killings. And as you said, you know, he learned
Speaker 3: afterward that that Rolling had sent a letter and to
Speaker 3: this this reverend there set War had given him a
Speaker 3: letter when he met with them, and then after the
Speaker 3: execution the letter was revealed, and then the letter Rolling
Speaker 3: confessed to the killing the three Gristoms as well. So
Speaker 3: really a lot of really interesting threads with this story. Uh,
Speaker 3: there's a lot of a lot of subplots kind of
Speaker 3: going on all the same time.
Speaker 2: Yes, absolutely, it's also interesting did you take us to
Speaker 2: take the reader right into the execution itself? And fascinating
Speaker 2: when they ask him if he wants to say anything
Speaker 2: and he breaks into a song just before the chemicals
Speaker 2: throw flow through his veins. Very very fascinating. A remarkable book. JT.
Speaker 2: Thank you very much for coming on and talking about
Speaker 2: a monster of all time, the true story of Danny Rowling.
Speaker 2: The Gainesville Ripper has been fascinating. Thank you, JT. For
Speaker 2: those that might want to just check out your other work,
Speaker 2: you have a Facebook page or website, let us know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's the publishers RJ. Parker Publishing, and there's a
Speaker 3: there's a website RJ. Parker Publishing dot com. And you know,
Speaker 3: all the books, all my books are available on Amazon
Speaker 3: dot com. Easiest way, it's just the plugin JT. Hunter,
Speaker 3: and the books should pop up, including the latest one,
Speaker 3: A Monster of All Time.
Speaker 2: Yes, thank you very much, JT. Hope to talk to
Speaker 2: you again real soon. It's been a pleasure.
Speaker 3: Good night, Thanks Dan. It's always fun to talk.
Speaker 2: Thank you.
Speaker 3: Enjoyed it. Take care,