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Daily bonuses, 53 00:02:00.000 --> 00:02:02.719 Thanks waiting, No purchase necessary board. We're prohibited by long 54 00:02:02.799 --> 00:02:04.760 eight team plus terms and conditions of the playing See 55 00:02:04.760 --> 00:02:06.760 website for details. 56 00:02:15.639 --> 00:02:19.080 You are now listening to True Murder, the most shocking 57 00:02:19.159 --> 00:02:22.199 killers in true crime history and the authors that have 58 00:02:22.240 --> 00:02:29.840 written about them Gasey, Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker BTK Every week, 59 00:02:30.000 --> 00:02:33.840 another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and infamous 60 00:02:33.879 --> 00:02:37.879 killers in true crime history. True Murder with your host, 61 00:02:38.280 --> 00:02:54.199 journalist and author Dan Zupanski. Good evening, ambitious, attractive, and 62 00:02:54.240 --> 00:02:57.840 full of potential. Five young college students prepared for the 63 00:02:57.840 --> 00:03:03.240 new semester to beginning careers in starting families. They had 64 00:03:03.280 --> 00:03:06.599 a lifetime of experiences in front of them, But death 65 00:03:06.639 --> 00:03:10.319 came without warning in the dark of the night, brutally 66 00:03:10.400 --> 00:03:14.439 ending five promising lives, leaving behind three gruesome crime scenes. 67 00:03:15.000 --> 00:03:19.039 The Gainesville Ripper terrorized the University of Florida, casting an 68 00:03:19.039 --> 00:03:23.400 ominous shadow across the frightened college town. What evil lurked 69 00:03:23.400 --> 00:03:27.520 inside him, What demons drove him to kill? What made 70 00:03:27.560 --> 00:03:31.199 him a Monster of All Time? Book they were featuring 71 00:03:31.240 --> 00:03:33.319 this evening is a Monster of All Time, The true 72 00:03:33.319 --> 00:03:36.680 story of Danny Rowling The Gainesville Ripper. With my special guest, 73 00:03:36.759 --> 00:03:39.319 journalist and author and attorney JT. 74 00:03:39.479 --> 00:03:41.639 Hunter. Welcome back to the program, and thank you very 75 00:03:41.719 --> 00:03:43.719 much for agreeing to this interview. JT. 76 00:03:43.879 --> 00:03:47.599 Hunter, Thanks dang glad to be here. 77 00:03:48.599 --> 00:03:53.240 Thank you very much. One of the worst killers in 78 00:03:53.319 --> 00:03:55.879 true crime history. Thank you very much, the monster of 79 00:03:55.919 --> 00:04:02.319 all time. You bring us right to a scene and 80 00:04:02.800 --> 00:04:06.240 I get you described this. This is in Parchment, Mississippi's 81 00:04:06.280 --> 00:04:10.719 tenttry in Mississippi. You take us as the reader right 82 00:04:10.759 --> 00:04:14.840 to nineteen eighty seven. But tell us a little bit 83 00:04:14.879 --> 00:04:19.360 about this Parchment, Mississippi prison. You talk about when he 84 00:04:19.480 --> 00:04:25.639 was transferred there and then he angered a guard there, 85 00:04:25.680 --> 00:04:27.759 so he was put in a very bad prison, but 86 00:04:28.079 --> 00:04:30.240 a really bad place in a very bad prison. Tell 87 00:04:30.319 --> 00:04:33.800 us about this Parchment Mississippi State Penitentiary. 88 00:04:36.480 --> 00:04:44.319 Well, Parchman has a notorious reputation for being really hard 89 00:04:44.399 --> 00:04:48.319 on the prisoners there. There's a really long, interesting history 90 00:04:48.319 --> 00:04:50.079 and Parchman if you really want to take the time 91 00:04:50.079 --> 00:04:54.240 to look into it, but it definitely was not a 92 00:04:54.279 --> 00:04:58.279 place that folks wanted to be sent to to serve 93 00:04:58.319 --> 00:05:01.480 their sentences and any rolling when he went there, he 94 00:05:01.519 --> 00:05:03.120 had a he had a really rough time there. He 95 00:05:03.160 --> 00:05:06.240 was he was putting a really when I gather really 96 00:05:06.279 --> 00:05:08.480 older part of the prison there that was in really 97 00:05:08.519 --> 00:05:12.680 bad condition, and so he you know, he had to 98 00:05:13.720 --> 00:05:16.079 endure a quire a bit while he was there, and 99 00:05:16.160 --> 00:05:20.240 it apparently really affected him, you know, not just physically 100 00:05:20.319 --> 00:05:22.439 and emotionally, but psychologically as well. 101 00:05:24.319 --> 00:05:27.959 You talk about that he thought, or at least had 102 00:05:27.959 --> 00:05:30.319 said to administration that he was because he was a 103 00:05:30.360 --> 00:05:33.079 CoP's son, former cops son, that he wanted to be 104 00:05:33.079 --> 00:05:38.240 transferred to administrative segregation. So we're talking about placed in 105 00:05:38.279 --> 00:05:42.079 a place that's not so desirable for an inmate, would 106 00:05:42.120 --> 00:05:47.480 be segregation in any prison, correct. 107 00:05:47.639 --> 00:05:51.360 Yeah, I mean being being isolated and not having much 108 00:05:51.399 --> 00:05:54.639 contact with anyone else. It's like a prison within a prison. 109 00:05:54.720 --> 00:05:56.560 From from understanding. 110 00:05:58.120 --> 00:06:01.800 Now, something right out of it sounds like a fictional movie. 111 00:06:02.040 --> 00:06:06.240 You talk about a scene that she could be or 112 00:06:06.240 --> 00:06:08.959 it could not be, depends on if someone were to 113 00:06:09.000 --> 00:06:12.079 believe what this person was saying. And you talk about 114 00:06:12.120 --> 00:06:21.279 this Gemini. You describe this prisoner in these horrid conditions 115 00:06:21.319 --> 00:06:26.639 and his sanity tested by being in this prison. What 116 00:06:26.839 --> 00:06:35.759 is Gemini, Well, Gemini is something that Danny Rolling identified 117 00:06:36.160 --> 00:06:41.000 as the I believe that the cause of. 118 00:06:42.360 --> 00:06:47.560 The murders he ultimately ended up committing. And the way 119 00:06:48.319 --> 00:06:54.079 Rolling explained it was Gemini was this sort of demonic 120 00:06:54.720 --> 00:07:00.560 force that spoke to him while he was serving is 121 00:07:00.680 --> 00:07:05.959 hard time their imparchment under these really miserable conditions, and 122 00:07:06.079 --> 00:07:12.720 that offered him a way way to survive the experience. 123 00:07:13.720 --> 00:07:17.680 And this is something that he apparently believed occurred and 124 00:07:18.639 --> 00:07:19.959 ultimately ended up acting on. 125 00:07:22.959 --> 00:07:27.079 You say that Gemini gave him the ability to embrace 126 00:07:27.160 --> 00:07:32.079 the assurance of vengeance and pledging revenge for the countless 127 00:07:32.079 --> 00:07:35.680 injuries he had inflicted upon him, and a new sense 128 00:07:35.680 --> 00:07:39.800 of purpose had washed over him. With this, he didn't 129 00:07:39.800 --> 00:07:43.600 take the reader to August twenty sixth, nineteen ninety, Gainesville, 130 00:07:43.680 --> 00:07:52.639 Florida and a couple of students, Christina Powell. First, we 131 00:07:52.680 --> 00:07:55.800 talk about Christina Powell. She's seventeen years old and she 132 00:07:56.240 --> 00:07:59.160 has moved from Jacksonville to go to the University of 133 00:07:59.199 --> 00:08:05.480 Florida and gained Unville. The classes weren't start, she leaves 134 00:08:05.480 --> 00:08:09.560 before the weekend, So tell us she has a relationship 135 00:08:09.600 --> 00:08:12.800 with close relationship with her parents. Tell us what happens 136 00:08:13.959 --> 00:08:18.120 on that weekend on August nineteen ninety in Gainesville. 137 00:08:19.639 --> 00:08:22.639 Well, this is the weekend before classes were scheduled to 138 00:08:22.680 --> 00:08:27.360 start there at the University of Florida, and Christina was 139 00:08:27.839 --> 00:08:31.199 a freshman. She was an incoming freshman there at the college, 140 00:08:31.800 --> 00:08:35.200 and she had moved into a new apartment there in 141 00:08:35.240 --> 00:08:41.320 Gainesville along with her new roommate, another freshman in college there, 142 00:08:42.639 --> 00:08:48.240 and they were, you know, doing what any college kids 143 00:08:48.279 --> 00:08:50.360 do when they're getting ready to start their semester. They 144 00:08:50.559 --> 00:08:52.240 you know, they're trying to get their stuff moved in. 145 00:08:52.440 --> 00:08:56.039 They were, you know, looking around, trying to find some 146 00:08:56.080 --> 00:08:58.840 sort of part time job to work during school, and 147 00:08:58.960 --> 00:09:03.759 getting supply for the upcoming semester, all these sorts of things. 148 00:09:03.919 --> 00:09:07.360 And she was there for the weekend, and normally, I 149 00:09:07.399 --> 00:09:11.200 guess she called home quite often to talk to her parents, 150 00:09:11.360 --> 00:09:14.440 and her parents didn't hear from her for several days, 151 00:09:15.519 --> 00:09:20.840 and they really got worried about it and ultimately ended 152 00:09:20.919 --> 00:09:23.320 up driving over to Gainesville to see what was going on, 153 00:09:23.399 --> 00:09:24.960 to see why they hadn't heard from their daughter. 154 00:09:27.600 --> 00:09:30.399 Now, you talk about right at the apartment that they 155 00:09:30.639 --> 00:09:33.200 had to break in, there was a locked dead bolt, 156 00:09:33.399 --> 00:09:36.399 and as soon as they broke in, basically they could 157 00:09:36.440 --> 00:09:41.679 smell death as you write, and they found Sonja Larson. 158 00:09:41.840 --> 00:09:48.879 She was eighteen years old, her Christina's roommate. They find 159 00:09:48.879 --> 00:09:51.759 her first, what is the I know this is graphic. 160 00:09:51.799 --> 00:09:55.120 Well what's the condition of Sonia? How do they find her? 161 00:09:55.440 --> 00:09:57.200 And what's the condition? 162 00:10:00.080 --> 00:10:04.399 Well, that the body was already starting to show signs 163 00:10:04.440 --> 00:10:12.399 the decomposition, and uh, there were you know, readily apparent 164 00:10:13.080 --> 00:10:15.080 that she had been stabbed to death. There were stab 165 00:10:15.120 --> 00:10:18.799 wounds visible on her her shirt was there were there 166 00:10:18.799 --> 00:10:20.960 were stab wounds that could be seen on her arm, 167 00:10:21.240 --> 00:10:24.759 on her leg and chafts area, and you know you 168 00:10:24.799 --> 00:10:27.440 can imagine the bloody condition of the body. 169 00:10:28.600 --> 00:10:29.519 Yeah, that was there. 170 00:10:29.559 --> 00:10:31.159 There was there was quite a bit of blood found 171 00:10:31.200 --> 00:10:31.840 all around there. 172 00:10:35.039 --> 00:10:39.120 Now you talk about too that there was also a 173 00:10:39.240 --> 00:10:43.159 large piece of flesh was cut from her upper thigh. 174 00:10:43.200 --> 00:10:46.120 And then another scene they'd come in, the perpetrators come 175 00:10:46.159 --> 00:10:48.679 in through the upstairs. So there was you say, a 176 00:10:48.799 --> 00:10:53.080 second scene, ghastly scene was downstairs and it was a 177 00:10:53.240 --> 00:10:57.840 nude body of Christina Powell. What is one of the 178 00:10:57.960 --> 00:11:03.799 things again very unw usual that that that they encountered 179 00:11:03.799 --> 00:11:04.960 when they saw the scene. 180 00:11:05.559 --> 00:11:11.639 Christina Powell, Well, like like Sonia Larson, she had been 181 00:11:11.799 --> 00:11:16.879 stabbed to death multiple stab wounds to her. But you know, 182 00:11:16.960 --> 00:11:20.240 like similar to what you mentioned about the flush green 183 00:11:20.320 --> 00:11:25.679 cut from Sonia leg with Christina her both of her 184 00:11:25.759 --> 00:11:29.799 nipples had been cut off, and her body had been 185 00:11:30.519 --> 00:11:35.399 arranged a certain way, you know, indicating that whoever had 186 00:11:35.519 --> 00:11:38.080 murdered her had you know, staged her body in a 187 00:11:38.120 --> 00:11:41.919 particular way and a band her hair out on to 188 00:11:42.000 --> 00:11:44.120 the side of her head and placed her in a 189 00:11:44.120 --> 00:11:44.840 certain position. 190 00:11:44.919 --> 00:11:50.159 There those other unusual things, like you said, there was 191 00:11:50.840 --> 00:11:56.080 he obscenely posed her with her legs spread, but also 192 00:11:56.120 --> 00:11:59.759 there was some effort to be able to clean up 193 00:11:59.799 --> 00:12:04.799 the scene with dis soap, and also that that he 194 00:12:04.919 --> 00:12:08.000 bound these women with duct tape, and that he had 195 00:12:08.000 --> 00:12:14.919 taken the duct tape away after he left. This this 196 00:12:15.039 --> 00:12:18.799 murder scene does what in this little college town on 197 00:12:19.039 --> 00:12:22.480 the very beginning of the college year. 198 00:12:26.279 --> 00:12:29.519 But it certain it certainly freaked everybody out, I guess 199 00:12:29.639 --> 00:12:31.960 the way to kind of sum it up, made everyone 200 00:12:32.080 --> 00:12:36.080 very much, very much weary, very much concerned. Nobody had 201 00:12:36.080 --> 00:12:41.360 any idea who this killer was, that had that had 202 00:12:41.440 --> 00:12:44.200 killed these two young girls inside their own apartment. So 203 00:12:44.399 --> 00:12:47.240 there was a lot of fear in Gainesville. Nobody knew 204 00:12:47.279 --> 00:12:49.080 who had done it. It could have been anybody. It 205 00:12:49.080 --> 00:12:50.919 could have been, you know, neighbor. 206 00:12:54.879 --> 00:12:58.039 And so how do police proceed in terms of trying 207 00:12:58.080 --> 00:13:04.360 to to deal with this looks like someone a killer 208 00:13:04.399 --> 00:13:06.240 around the loose, a mad killer on the loose. 209 00:13:10.639 --> 00:13:14.519 Well, you know, they started organizing the best they could 210 00:13:14.600 --> 00:13:18.759 investigating the murders. But before they could really even get 211 00:13:19.480 --> 00:13:23.120 going too far with their investigation of these murders, they 212 00:13:23.639 --> 00:13:27.679 found another body. So, you know, right right on the 213 00:13:27.720 --> 00:13:31.120 heels of the other body showed up. 214 00:13:32.919 --> 00:13:36.440 Now you talk about this third victim, this is Christa Hoyt, 215 00:13:36.759 --> 00:13:40.919 and very interestingly, she was working also part time as 216 00:13:40.919 --> 00:13:46.399 a clerk in the records Bureau of Alachua County Sheriff's office, 217 00:13:46.559 --> 00:13:49.399 and she failed to show up for a midnight work 218 00:13:49.440 --> 00:13:52.759 shift and so co workers sent a deputy to check 219 00:13:52.799 --> 00:13:56.559 on her. And that's how she was discovered again the 220 00:13:56.600 --> 00:14:00.399 lock department. And when he looked inside, what did he 221 00:14:00.519 --> 00:14:03.639 find that Crystal Hoyt's crime scene. 222 00:14:06.200 --> 00:14:09.440 Christmas crime scene was really I mean, they're all all 223 00:14:09.480 --> 00:14:13.519 these scenes were pretty gruesome, but but Christa's was the 224 00:14:13.600 --> 00:14:17.600 most gruesome. That what had been done to her, her body, 225 00:14:19.240 --> 00:14:21.600 you know, she had been she had been killed similarly 226 00:14:21.679 --> 00:14:26.279 to the other two victims, but her she had also 227 00:14:26.399 --> 00:14:32.519 been decapitated, and her head had been placed on a 228 00:14:32.559 --> 00:14:36.559 bookshelf next to the bed where her body was positioned. 229 00:14:36.919 --> 00:14:39.320 Her body had been cropped up on the edge of 230 00:14:39.399 --> 00:14:42.759 the bed as if it was sitting there, and her 231 00:14:42.799 --> 00:14:47.840 head was put on the bookcase side it positioned as 232 00:14:47.879 --> 00:14:49.679 if looking at the at the body. So the head 233 00:14:49.840 --> 00:14:51.799 the head was, you know, facing the body as if 234 00:14:52.440 --> 00:14:56.639 Christo was looking at her. Brown decapitated body there obviously 235 00:14:56.720 --> 00:15:02.480 meant to devote orror on whoever happened to find her. 236 00:15:05.360 --> 00:15:10.120 You also talk about the police afterwards. Again they were 237 00:15:10.159 --> 00:15:14.879 looking for some sort of witness, and her landlord told 238 00:15:14.879 --> 00:15:18.120 police that on August twenty fifth, he had noticed the 239 00:15:18.200 --> 00:15:23.120 gate latch had been unlocked, and so he just mentioned 240 00:15:23.120 --> 00:15:24.919 that to her and she thought, well, maybe it was 241 00:15:25.159 --> 00:15:28.080 maybe a television repairman or something in the area, and 242 00:15:28.159 --> 00:15:31.679 he hadn't thought much of it, but in retrospect he 243 00:15:31.879 --> 00:15:35.159 told police said what he had noticed with the latch. 244 00:15:36.720 --> 00:15:39.720 Now this is the third victim in Gainesville in two days. 245 00:15:39.840 --> 00:15:44.159 You talk about Gainesville Police Chief Whalon Clifton. He calls 246 00:15:44.320 --> 00:15:47.120 the Florida Department of Law Enforcement for help. He knows 247 00:15:47.120 --> 00:15:49.679 he's over his head by a long shot with this, 248 00:15:49.799 --> 00:15:50.200 doesn't he. 249 00:15:52.840 --> 00:15:57.000 Yeah, it's too much for a coincidence to have the 250 00:15:57.080 --> 00:15:59.799 two girls bodies found one day, and then the very 251 00:15:59.840 --> 00:16:02.960 next stay to find this other body, you know, killed 252 00:16:03.120 --> 00:16:06.080 in a similar fashion. So so called the scigns were 253 00:16:06.080 --> 00:16:11.240 pointing to the same killer having done this, and so yeah, 254 00:16:11.279 --> 00:16:16.639 so Gainesville wasn't in a place that had an experience 255 00:16:16.679 --> 00:16:18.440 with a lot of murders, and to have this mini 256 00:16:18.440 --> 00:16:21.440 happened all at once, Yeah, certainly he decided he needed 257 00:16:21.559 --> 00:16:23.720 to call him some some outside help. 258 00:16:26.559 --> 00:16:30.879 He talked too that in this general area, but at 259 00:16:30.960 --> 00:16:35.960 least Florida for sure, and close by that another infamous 260 00:16:35.960 --> 00:16:41.440 serial killer had terrorized college town a decade before. Who 261 00:16:41.519 --> 00:16:44.440 was that? 262 00:16:44.519 --> 00:16:47.840 Maybe that was Ted Bundy, very well, a serial killer 263 00:16:48.519 --> 00:16:52.440 who killed, you know, he killed the different states, but 264 00:16:52.759 --> 00:16:57.080 in Florida and in Tallahassee, Florida. He was notorious for 265 00:16:57.159 --> 00:17:02.679 having attacked and killed number of state university students up there, 266 00:17:03.279 --> 00:17:07.480 and it was ultimately Cott not long afterward, I believe, 267 00:17:07.680 --> 00:17:12.160 around the Jacksonville area. But but yeah, Ted Bundy was 268 00:17:12.480 --> 00:17:17.319 certainly a notorious killer. And then you know, rolling ends 269 00:17:17.400 --> 00:17:22.279 up having a sort of a similar way of going 270 00:17:22.319 --> 00:17:24.440 about doing things, you know, instead of instead of killing 271 00:17:24.440 --> 00:17:27.839 college students in Tallahassee at Florida State, he's killing college 272 00:17:27.880 --> 00:17:31.119 students in Gainesville at the University of Florida. 273 00:17:31.279 --> 00:17:38.920 Yeah, let's get back to more murder. Unfortunately, August twenty eighth, 274 00:17:39.079 --> 00:17:43.680 nineteen ninety two more bodies are found. This time one 275 00:17:43.799 --> 00:17:47.920 was a male, Manuel Toboda, a twenty three year old, 276 00:17:48.440 --> 00:17:51.000 and Tracy Pauls is twenty three years old too, in 277 00:17:51.039 --> 00:17:55.319 their roommates, and this is about a mile from Christa 278 00:17:55.440 --> 00:17:59.480 Hoyt's home, so in the general area, and their stabbed 279 00:17:59.519 --> 00:18:02.880 to death. But tell us what a little bit about 280 00:18:02.920 --> 00:18:06.359 the background why Tracy moved in with men? Well, a 281 00:18:06.400 --> 00:18:10.079 little bit about the background about these two people before 282 00:18:10.119 --> 00:18:12.960 we talk a little bit more about the crime scene itself. 283 00:18:13.160 --> 00:18:14.400 Another ghastly affair. 284 00:18:16.759 --> 00:18:20.319 Well, Tracy in Manny at the Boda. They were friends 285 00:18:20.359 --> 00:18:24.480 from back in high school. They went to high school 286 00:18:24.519 --> 00:18:29.359 down in South Florida, and they became friends there near Miami. 287 00:18:31.200 --> 00:18:35.599 And they were a little bit older than the other victims. 288 00:18:35.599 --> 00:18:39.559 They were both twenty three. Of the leaves, whereas the 289 00:18:39.599 --> 00:18:44.160 other victims refreshming around eighteen, nineteen years old, so they 290 00:18:44.160 --> 00:18:45.680 were a couple of years older. They had known each 291 00:18:45.720 --> 00:18:48.359 other since high school and they were really good friends. 292 00:18:48.599 --> 00:18:54.559 And as you as you undicated, Tracy had been, you know, 293 00:18:54.599 --> 00:19:00.079 a little concerned about her safety. So she decided to 294 00:19:00.160 --> 00:19:03.519 be a good idea to be roommates with with Manny 295 00:19:03.640 --> 00:19:07.079 because well, for one man, he was was a male, obviously, 296 00:19:07.160 --> 00:19:10.920 but he's also a very barge male. He played high 297 00:19:10.920 --> 00:19:18.759 school and football. He was six foot two, so he 298 00:19:18.839 --> 00:19:22.559 was a he was a big, big guy. And uh, 299 00:19:22.599 --> 00:19:25.599 you know, she, you know, reasonably enough, figured that if 300 00:19:25.599 --> 00:19:30.279 she roomed with him, she'd be pretty safe. 301 00:19:31.880 --> 00:19:35.359 You also talk about that it's fascinating that since these 302 00:19:35.440 --> 00:19:38.720 murders are fresh and they're on people's minds and they 303 00:19:38.720 --> 00:19:41.680 have created such a panic among these college students, some 304 00:19:41.759 --> 00:19:43.799 of these college students have changed their mind. Their parents 305 00:19:43.839 --> 00:19:46.240 have said, come on back home, it's not worth it. 306 00:19:46.960 --> 00:19:51.519 But it was interesting if the father even implored her 307 00:19:51.599 --> 00:19:54.839 daughter to hang around Manny, stay by many be careful, 308 00:19:56.319 --> 00:20:00.559 and they talked about the murders. They did talk about 309 00:20:01.119 --> 00:20:03.640 keeping her safe. They had joked about it, they had 310 00:20:03.680 --> 00:20:07.880 mentioned it, they had spoke about it. They had cautioned her. 311 00:20:08.559 --> 00:20:11.480 Then you talk about Manny getting home from bartending at 312 00:20:11.519 --> 00:20:16.519 about one five am, tell us what he does when 313 00:20:16.519 --> 00:20:20.680 he gets home and what she's doing, and tell us 314 00:20:20.680 --> 00:20:25.039 what happens shortly after at three am. 315 00:20:25.759 --> 00:20:27.319 Yeah, that's one of the you know, one of the 316 00:20:27.400 --> 00:20:30.480 scary things about the case is that, you know Trees, 317 00:20:30.599 --> 00:20:33.319 he's on the phone talking to her, her family and 318 00:20:33.359 --> 00:20:36.279 talking to her friend, her good friend, and you know, 319 00:20:36.319 --> 00:20:38.640 they're all worried about the fact that these other bodies 320 00:20:38.680 --> 00:20:42.079 have been discovered there, and they're they're cautioning her, warning 321 00:20:42.079 --> 00:20:45.240 her to be careful. And you know, it turns out 322 00:20:45.440 --> 00:20:48.880 that when she's on the phone having this conversation, the 323 00:20:49.000 --> 00:20:53.680 killers outside watching her on the phone the whole time. So, 324 00:20:55.160 --> 00:20:58.799 as you said, Manny had a job martending. I think 325 00:20:58.799 --> 00:20:59.680 it openigans there. 326 00:21:00.279 --> 00:21:03.240 So he came home early in the morning one thirty 327 00:21:03.359 --> 00:21:07.960 ish and came into the apartment and checked on went 328 00:21:07.960 --> 00:21:10.200 in and checked on Tracy after he got him and 329 00:21:10.519 --> 00:21:11.240 basically told. 330 00:21:11.119 --> 00:21:13.880 Her, Hey, I'm home, I'm really I'm beat, I'm tired, 331 00:21:14.079 --> 00:21:16.880 I'm going to bed and uh, and then went to bed. 332 00:21:19.519 --> 00:21:23.599 Now you say that someone obviously Danny Rowling was was 333 00:21:23.680 --> 00:21:29.519 watching and you get this information with the incredible access 334 00:21:29.519 --> 00:21:34.400 that you have to information afterwards, what does Danny Rowling do? 335 00:21:35.279 --> 00:21:38.240 How does he? Again, do you imagine a couple of 336 00:21:38.279 --> 00:21:41.640 people aware that there's a threat, and this guy that's 337 00:21:41.640 --> 00:21:45.799 an offensive guard in football, he's six foot two hundred pounds. 338 00:21:47.720 --> 00:21:54.680 How does Danny rolling do what he does? Well, once he. 339 00:21:54.680 --> 00:21:57.680 Gains access to the apartment, he enters in there and 340 00:21:57.759 --> 00:22:01.920 goes to to Manny's beggar first, and you know, he 341 00:22:01.960 --> 00:22:05.200 waits a while before before he enters the apartment to 342 00:22:05.240 --> 00:22:09.319 give him time to he sounds asleep. And then once 343 00:22:09.319 --> 00:22:12.559 he enters, he goes into Manny's apartment and stands over 344 00:22:12.640 --> 00:22:15.640 him and take that. At night, he has one of 345 00:22:15.680 --> 00:22:22.000 these these large marine fighting knives are called cabar knives, 346 00:22:22.039 --> 00:22:25.000 and he takes one and takes that out, and while 347 00:22:25.039 --> 00:22:29.119 Manny's sleeping on his back, he plunges it straight down 348 00:22:29.160 --> 00:22:35.720 into into Manny's chest and from there Manny wakes up 349 00:22:36.519 --> 00:22:40.640 abruptly obviously and gasp, and there's a there's a there's 350 00:22:40.640 --> 00:22:44.160 a there's a struggle there for I was described as 351 00:22:44.200 --> 00:22:48.400 a really bloody, rough struggle that went on as as 352 00:22:48.440 --> 00:22:53.400 Manny fought for his life, but ultimately he was overcome, 353 00:22:54.200 --> 00:22:58.200 you know, obviously caught caught by surprisal. He was sound 354 00:22:58.200 --> 00:23:02.680 asleep and he he was stabbed to death. Another very 355 00:23:02.799 --> 00:23:08.880 very bloody crime scene. And then while that was happening, Tracy, 356 00:23:09.240 --> 00:23:12.400 who had gone to bed as well, heard the commotion 357 00:23:12.599 --> 00:23:19.480 and peered at her door down the hall and saw 358 00:23:20.519 --> 00:23:24.480 the killer come out of Anny's room. And you know, 359 00:23:24.599 --> 00:23:28.440 she screamed and closed her door and locked the door 360 00:23:28.480 --> 00:23:32.480 and tried to get away, but he pursued down the 361 00:23:32.480 --> 00:23:34.400 hall and kicked in her door and attacked her. 362 00:23:37.039 --> 00:23:41.599 Now, you say, that's very interesting too, that Tracy's friend Lisa, 363 00:23:42.039 --> 00:23:45.079 the next day couldn't reach her, and so she calls 364 00:23:45.240 --> 00:23:49.759 another friend called Tommy Carroll, and that's how their bodies 365 00:23:49.759 --> 00:23:53.119 were discovered at the gate where Gator Wood's apartment. Neither 366 00:23:53.160 --> 00:23:57.240 body been mutilated. But another fascinating part of this was 367 00:23:57.279 --> 00:24:00.279 that when he had gone there, there was a black 368 00:24:00.359 --> 00:24:05.799 bag and he ran to obviously alert police. What was 369 00:24:05.799 --> 00:24:11.400 an incredible strange thing that was seen by police after 370 00:24:11.559 --> 00:24:16.319 he mentioned this bag? What tell us about the the bag? 371 00:24:18.799 --> 00:24:23.559 This is an interesting back too, is this this bag 372 00:24:23.640 --> 00:24:27.920 that was mentioned that I believe it was the Gator 373 00:24:27.960 --> 00:24:35.839 Road apartments maintenance guy or you know, maintenance car care 374 00:24:36.279 --> 00:24:38.759 taker there at the apartment complex was the one that 375 00:24:40.200 --> 00:24:42.200 you know, opened the door. And when he opened up 376 00:24:42.200 --> 00:24:46.680 the door, he saw the bag was there laying there 377 00:24:46.680 --> 00:24:51.279 on the floor beside the body, this black bagage you mentioned. 378 00:24:51.559 --> 00:24:55.920 And the door was actually I believe it was unlocked 379 00:24:55.960 --> 00:24:57.599 when he did that, and so when he opened it, 380 00:24:57.640 --> 00:25:00.119 he saw the body and the bag there. And the 381 00:25:00.480 --> 00:25:04.279 bag they closed the doorback after that because you know, 382 00:25:04.920 --> 00:25:07.920 obviously they saw this body there, so they kind of 383 00:25:07.960 --> 00:25:09.759 shocked and they closed the doorback and went to know 384 00:25:09.839 --> 00:25:12.559 the fight the police. And when the police did show 385 00:25:12.640 --> 00:25:16.160 up and go back into the apartment, the bag was gone. 386 00:25:20.720 --> 00:25:24.119 Now what did that well, we'll just I don't know, 387 00:25:24.200 --> 00:25:28.359 jump ahead, but what did that indicate two police that 388 00:25:29.599 --> 00:25:33.759 compared to the other crime scenes, what had happened with 389 00:25:33.839 --> 00:25:36.640 this bag? What did that indicate was different from those 390 00:25:36.680 --> 00:25:37.480 other crime scenes. 391 00:25:40.119 --> 00:25:42.799 They indicated that the killer was still inside the apartment 392 00:25:42.880 --> 00:25:47.839 when these individuals went there to check on Tracy and 393 00:25:47.920 --> 00:25:52.519 many there, the killer was still inside and was interrupted 394 00:25:52.559 --> 00:25:54.480 and whatever he was wanting to do at the time, 395 00:25:54.680 --> 00:25:57.200 he had the other the other difference there, you know, 396 00:25:57.240 --> 00:25:59.880 there was this black bag that was apparently seen. The 397 00:26:00.119 --> 00:26:05.400 other difference was that the body there weren't you displayed 398 00:26:05.440 --> 00:26:08.559 in any sort of manner like you had like the 399 00:26:08.599 --> 00:26:10.839 other bodies to benet the other crimes scenes. So another 400 00:26:10.880 --> 00:26:15.000 indication that the killer had been interrupted and had to 401 00:26:15.039 --> 00:26:16.920