WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.200 --> 00:00:03.540 As the United States Senate comes back from its summer recess, 2 00:00:03.580 --> 00:00:06.139 it's going to take up a piece of federal legislation 3 00:00:06.200 --> 00:00:10.289 called the Clarity Act. And according to Senator Elizabeth Warren, quote, 4 00:00:10.609 --> 00:00:14.669 that legislation does nothing to prevent Trump from vacuuming up 5 00:00:15.009 --> 00:00:18.870 his next $ 1. 4 billion in crypto profits. 6 00:00:19.010 --> 00:00:19.390 Why? 7 00:00:19.829 --> 00:00:24.100 Because the ethics language in that proposed legislation is weak 8 00:00:24.140 --> 00:00:25.379 sauce and dead on arrival. 9 00:00:25.859 --> 00:00:27.690 So it is a. 10 00:00:28.920 --> 00:00:31.539 I guess, latest round of a spate of federal legislation 11 00:00:31.579 --> 00:00:36.070 that attempts to regulate cryptocurrency. And I'll bet you, not 12 00:00:36.130 --> 00:00:38.310 any crypto, that if you were to go and you 13 00:00:38.329 --> 00:00:40.689 were to test the basic knowledge of members of Congress 14 00:00:40.829 --> 00:00:43.750 as to what cryptocurrency is and why it should be regulated, 15 00:00:43.789 --> 00:00:44.630 a lot of them would have. 16 00:00:44.649 --> 00:00:47.130 No idea what the hell you're talking about. 17 00:00:47.700 --> 00:00:50.859 Which is why the latest film and the directorial debut 18 00:00:50.920 --> 00:00:53.659 of my friend Ben McKenzie's movie, Everyone is Lying to 19 00:00:53.700 --> 00:00:56.780 You for Money, is so important and why it is 20 00:00:57.340 --> 00:01:02.380 must see viewing for you. Ben has taken up the 21 00:01:02.420 --> 00:01:06.519 laboring oar of educating the public about the dangers of cryptocurrency. 22 00:01:06.579 --> 00:01:08.859 He's gone so far as to be invited to testify 23 00:01:08.920 --> 00:01:11.859 in front of the Senate to be able to explain 24 00:01:12.099 --> 00:01:16.859 why we are rolling the dice in an incredibly dangerous 25 00:01:16.920 --> 00:01:23.280 way in an industry that is currently bereft of regulation, 26 00:01:23.340 --> 00:01:27.099 let alone a basic understanding of what it is. And 27 00:01:27.219 --> 00:01:29.659 if we haven't learned our lessons, then shame on us. 28 00:01:30.079 --> 00:01:35.000 But for people like Ben and others, the opportunity to 29 00:01:35.049 --> 00:01:39.049 be able to introduce you to the world of crypto 30 00:01:39.109 --> 00:01:41.829 in terms of understanding what the hell is going on 31 00:01:42.170 --> 00:01:44.969 is a win. And so I invited Ben to be 32 00:01:44.989 --> 00:01:47.769 able to spend time with me to talk about his film, 33 00:01:48.109 --> 00:01:50.810 how you'll be able to watch it, and how being 34 00:01:50.939 --> 00:01:53.760 a subscriber of Katie Fang News will actually help that happen. 35 00:01:54.299 --> 00:01:54.739 Take a listen. 36 00:01:55.159 --> 00:01:57.200 Joining me now is Ben McKenzie, who I will not 37 00:01:57.299 --> 00:02:00.319 say is the star of the OC because I know Ben. 38 00:02:01.480 --> 00:02:03.599 You've kind of done other stuff since that. 39 00:02:03.680 --> 00:02:05.680 Although I will say, my friend, that every time I 40 00:02:05.719 --> 00:02:08.840 stop and I see some type of meme reel or 41 00:02:08.879 --> 00:02:11.240 something from the OC, it does. 42 00:02:11.159 --> 00:02:11.780 Kind of make me laugh. 43 00:02:13.580 --> 00:02:16.360 But Ben McKenzie, thank you so much for joining me. Look, 44 00:02:16.460 --> 00:02:18.340 I feel like I've been growing up with you in 45 00:02:18.360 --> 00:02:24.590 your kind of journey of with cryptocurrency. I had you 46 00:02:24.689 --> 00:02:27.849 on my old show on MSNBC when we talked about 47 00:02:27.909 --> 00:02:32.509 your New York Times bestselling book, Easy Money, Cryptocurrency, Casino Capitalism, 48 00:02:32.560 --> 00:02:34.280 and the Golden Age of Fraud that you wrote with 49 00:02:34.629 --> 00:02:35.509 Jacob Silverman. 50 00:02:35.569 --> 00:02:36.620 Fantastic book. 51 00:02:37.060 --> 00:02:38.979 And then I was also privy to sit at the 52 00:02:39.000 --> 00:02:43.479 Miami Film Festival and be able to watch your directorial debut, 53 00:02:43.800 --> 00:02:46.819 Everyone is Lying to You for Money. And so I'm 54 00:02:46.860 --> 00:02:49.379 proud of you, my friend, because this is an incredible, 55 00:02:49.500 --> 00:02:55.430 incredible film It's entertaining, educational, substantive, real meat on the bone. 56 00:02:55.949 --> 00:02:58.090 But I want people who have foolishly not seen it 57 00:02:58.650 --> 00:02:59.520 to be able to see it. 58 00:02:59.530 --> 00:03:01.750 So let people know what this film's all about. 59 00:03:02.310 --> 00:03:05.189 Yeah, absolutely. So this is a 90-minute comedy about how 60 00:03:05.289 --> 00:03:09.900 stupid and dangerous cryptocurrency is. I made it as accessible 61 00:03:09.939 --> 00:03:13.039 as possible. It is. You saw it for yourself, so 62 00:03:13.080 --> 00:03:16.039 you can attest to it. But, you know, audiences are 63 00:03:16.080 --> 00:03:17.879 loving it. We have a perfect score from the critics. 64 00:03:18.370 --> 00:03:20.629 But for some reason, we can't get a streamer to 65 00:03:20.650 --> 00:03:22.449 buy it. Hmm. Wonder. 66 00:03:22.689 --> 00:03:23.530 Wonder why. 67 00:03:24.030 --> 00:03:26.310 It might be because I end the film, spoiler alert, 68 00:03:26.969 --> 00:03:30.560 on Trump saying, buy Bitcoin, crypto, whatever it is you're 69 00:03:30.599 --> 00:03:34.340 playing with. And the song that's playing over the Trump clip, 70 00:03:34.639 --> 00:03:36.360 there's only a little Trump at the very end. Don't worry. 71 00:03:36.400 --> 00:03:38.000 He won't be in the party with a lot of Trump. 72 00:03:38.199 --> 00:03:39.120 Sparing people to Trump. 73 00:03:39.360 --> 00:03:42.189 Gotta spare people to Trump whenever possible. But the song 74 00:03:42.219 --> 00:03:44.469 playing over it is joining a cult. And it's about 75 00:03:44.509 --> 00:03:46.250 how nice it is to join a cult because you 76 00:03:46.270 --> 00:03:48.500 don't have to think for yourself. So The film is fun. 77 00:03:49.460 --> 00:03:52.759 Streamer won't buy it, so we're releasing it independently. So 78 00:03:53.300 --> 00:03:55.819 it's via a platform called Eventive, but you can just 79 00:03:55.860 --> 00:04:00.300 go to our website, everyoneislying.com, and click on Watch, and 80 00:04:00.340 --> 00:04:01.879 it'll direct you to where you need to go. And 81 00:04:02.159 --> 00:04:04.860 anyone anywhere in the world can watch it. We have 82 00:04:05.080 --> 00:04:08.969 subtitles for multiple languages. And not only do you get 83 00:04:08.990 --> 00:04:11.509 to watch the movie, but you also can, if you want, 84 00:04:11.610 --> 00:04:15.090 watch a Q & A with me and Marina, Marina Bachman, 85 00:04:15.110 --> 00:04:17.629 my wife, who's in the movie and very, very funny. Um, 86 00:04:18.370 --> 00:04:20.290 and we took questions from the audience. We did this 87 00:04:20.350 --> 00:04:22.709 live event on Saturday and it was amazing. I mean, 88 00:04:22.750 --> 00:04:27.290 we had people from 40 different countries, um, show up. Um, 89 00:04:27.329 --> 00:04:30.329 so it was really incredible. And for your viewers, because 90 00:04:30.379 --> 00:04:33.439 I love you and because you're great 50% off, uh, 91 00:04:33.540 --> 00:04:35.379 for your viewers, if you enter a code, I think it's. 92 00:04:36.009 --> 00:04:36.779 We'll put it up. 93 00:04:36.889 --> 00:04:37.459 We'll put it up. 94 00:04:37.689 --> 00:04:39.449 That's not a problem. 95 00:04:39.449 --> 00:04:39.529 100%. 96 00:04:39.529 --> 00:04:40.389 No, it's exciting. 97 00:04:40.430 --> 00:04:42.490 And we're going to get into the details of how 98 00:04:42.509 --> 00:04:45.300 people can watch this because, you know, look, the title 99 00:04:45.339 --> 00:04:46.800 of the film, Everyone is Lying to You for Money, 100 00:04:46.819 --> 00:04:47.639 could apply to everything. 101 00:04:47.980 --> 00:04:50.959 So let's be clear here, though. You know, the focus 102 00:04:51.019 --> 00:04:51.759 is cryptocurrency. 103 00:04:51.819 --> 00:04:58.670 And you've been an incredibly vocal, very forward-facing critic of cryptocurrency. 104 00:04:59.220 --> 00:05:01.560 If you had to get into an elevator, what would 105 00:05:01.579 --> 00:05:04.680 your pitch be? What would your elevator speech be on 106 00:05:04.720 --> 00:05:08.100 why everybody is lying to us about cryptocurrency? 107 00:05:09.199 --> 00:05:12.360 It's a story that sounds great, but isn't true. It's 108 00:05:12.899 --> 00:05:16.600 also the privatization of money. It's taking money from this 109 00:05:16.680 --> 00:05:21.389 publicly issued good to this privatized thing. So it's literal 110 00:05:21.449 --> 00:05:24.850 corporate money. It's corporations issuing their own money, whether it's 111 00:05:24.870 --> 00:05:27.600 World Liberty Financial in the case of Donald Trump. or 112 00:05:27.660 --> 00:05:30.620 even Bitcoin, we can go into why. But when you 113 00:05:30.660 --> 00:05:35.579 transfer the money's made up, it's trust essentially. And if 114 00:05:35.620 --> 00:05:37.620 you transfer that trust from the public sphere to the 115 00:05:37.660 --> 00:05:41.360 private sphere, a lot of bad things happen. There's a 116 00:05:41.519 --> 00:05:46.350 lot of fraud and manipulation of the markets. And we 117 00:05:46.399 --> 00:05:48.610 know this because we've tried it before. We tried it 118 00:05:48.769 --> 00:05:52.649 during the 19th century, during what was called the free 119 00:05:52.709 --> 00:05:55.810 banking era, the wildcat banking era, banks were allowed to 120 00:05:55.870 --> 00:05:57.730 issue their own notes. There was a lot of fraud. 121 00:05:58.930 --> 00:06:01.290 So this is a long elevator pitch. Maybe the elevator 122 00:06:01.310 --> 00:06:03.670 was going 20 floors, but that's my pitch. 123 00:06:04.870 --> 00:06:07.610 Well, listen, you mentioned Trump a few minutes ago. 124 00:06:07.709 --> 00:06:09.529 I want to clock some numbers for people that are 125 00:06:09.550 --> 00:06:12.870 tuning in, especially those that are following me at Katie 126 00:06:12.889 --> 00:06:13.170 Fang News. 127 00:06:13.189 --> 00:06:14.990 They know how I feel about convicted felon Donald Trump. 128 00:06:15.350 --> 00:06:16.189 But when it comes to. 129 00:06:16.829 --> 00:06:20.910 Trump and crypto, these are really important numbers, all kidding aside, right? 130 00:06:21.610 --> 00:06:24.709 Trump's own official 2025 financial disclosure that came out was 131 00:06:24.889 --> 00:06:27.769 hundreds and hundreds of pages. But there was some really 132 00:06:27.870 --> 00:06:31.519 important data on his crypto income that I want to highlight. 133 00:06:31.819 --> 00:06:39.319 For 2025 alone, Trump's own financial disclosure revealed $ 1. 4 billion 134 00:06:39.379 --> 00:06:43.029 with a B in 2025 alone in crypto income. More 135 00:06:43.069 --> 00:06:46.029 than $ 500 million from World Liberty Financial, the one you 136 00:06:46.050 --> 00:06:48.149 just talked about, the crypto venture he founded with the Suns. 137 00:06:48.699 --> 00:06:52.500 more than $ 550 million from World Liberty financial token sales, 138 00:06:53.019 --> 00:06:55.720 plus another $ 260 million from the sale of interest in 139 00:06:55.920 --> 00:07:01.370 World Liberty financial businesses, and then another $ 635 million from 140 00:07:01.410 --> 00:07:05.089 the sale of his Trump meme coins, which means that 141 00:07:05.389 --> 00:07:09.040 it's a part of his net worth tripling in his 142 00:07:09.100 --> 00:07:11.240 first year back in the Oval Office. 143 00:07:11.959 --> 00:07:15.519 If it's Trump... And it's something Trump adjacent. It's got 144 00:07:15.540 --> 00:07:17.199 to be corrupt. So there we go. 145 00:07:17.779 --> 00:07:19.459 I've now summarized your film for you. 146 00:07:20.339 --> 00:07:22.079 But Ben, why is this important? 147 00:07:22.100 --> 00:07:24.800 Because there's a lot of maneuvering that's going on in D.C. 148 00:07:24.839 --> 00:07:28.779 right now by Republicans who I suspect have no freaking 149 00:07:28.819 --> 00:07:31.000 clue what they're doing with crypto because they don't understand 150 00:07:31.019 --> 00:07:31.540 it themselves. 151 00:07:31.819 --> 00:07:32.660 They just kind of have a. 152 00:07:32.660 --> 00:07:37.060 Directive from Trump and this administration to push crypto as 153 00:07:37.120 --> 00:07:38.379 hard and as fast as they can. 154 00:07:38.759 --> 00:07:40.500 They have a directive from Trump, but they also have 155 00:07:40.519 --> 00:07:42.470 a directive from the crypto lobby itself. 156 00:07:43.029 --> 00:07:44.970 And it's a powerful lobby, by the way. 157 00:07:45.250 --> 00:07:49.490 Extremely powerful. In 2024, crypto and people associated with it 158 00:07:49.910 --> 00:07:56.860 spent $ 240 million in our elections. More than any other industry, 159 00:07:56.879 --> 00:08:00.160 40-something percent of all corporate donations in the cycle came 160 00:08:00.240 --> 00:08:03.759 from crypto and people. It's just staggering. It's really staggering. Um, 161 00:08:04.019 --> 00:08:06.519 right now it's crypto and AI maybe as a toss 162 00:08:06.610 --> 00:08:08.470 up in terms of how much money is being spent 163 00:08:08.509 --> 00:08:12.310 to manipulate our, our political system. But, um, they've already spent, 164 00:08:12.350 --> 00:08:15.250 I think it's $ 180 million in this cycle and we're 165 00:08:15.269 --> 00:08:17.970 not even to the general election yet. So there's a 166 00:08:18.009 --> 00:08:20.360 lot of money being thrown around, which is influencing, uh, 167 00:08:20.740 --> 00:08:24.240 unfortunately legislators from both parties, but particularly the Republicans. And 168 00:08:24.259 --> 00:08:27.899 then you're absolutely right because Trump is in on the con. Um, 169 00:08:28.519 --> 00:08:32.610 he is doing whatever he can to rip up regulations. 170 00:08:33.269 --> 00:08:36.980 that were meant to protect investors. He is cozying up 171 00:08:37.039 --> 00:08:40.980 with some, quite frankly, very shady people inside of the 172 00:08:41.000 --> 00:08:45.879 crypto industry. We can talk about their ties to crypto 173 00:08:45.899 --> 00:08:49.289 companies and also Epstein, which of course is your world. 174 00:08:50.289 --> 00:08:53.110 But there's just a lot of really awful things happening. 175 00:08:53.230 --> 00:08:55.169 And to come back to the point I was making earlier, 176 00:08:55.370 --> 00:08:59.009 this is what happens when you privatize money. When you 177 00:08:59.070 --> 00:09:03.220 privatize money, bad people fill the space. And they do 178 00:09:03.389 --> 00:09:07.080 all sorts of stuff that sure looks like criminal activity, 179 00:09:07.620 --> 00:09:08.519 even from the White House. 180 00:09:09.039 --> 00:09:10.899 I mean, but Ben, look, you don't even have to 181 00:09:10.940 --> 00:09:14.740 be super well-versed in crypto to be able to understand. 182 00:09:14.799 --> 00:09:17.779 We've seen people like Sam Bankman Freed in FTX, right? 183 00:09:17.799 --> 00:09:20.539 We've seen that in your film, you actually interview him, 184 00:09:20.559 --> 00:09:22.720 which is a wild thing. So no spoilers here. Y'all's got, 185 00:09:22.799 --> 00:09:26.759 you got to see how artfully Ben navigates this conversation 186 00:09:26.799 --> 00:09:30.059 with him. But you know, You don't have to be 187 00:09:30.139 --> 00:09:33.419 somebody well-versed in the law, let alone crypto, to see 188 00:09:33.899 --> 00:09:37.779 that it's all bullshit. So I'm not quite sure why 189 00:09:37.860 --> 00:09:41.740 our federal government thinks that it's a good idea to 190 00:09:42.460 --> 00:09:46.860 even be contemplating legislative action when it comes to this. 191 00:09:46.899 --> 00:09:47.820 I don't even think that they've. 192 00:09:47.659 --> 00:09:49.980 Settled on whether or not it's actual currency or not, 193 00:09:50.019 --> 00:09:51.179 whether or not they're going to treat it as a 194 00:09:51.230 --> 00:09:51.929 security or not. 195 00:09:52.039 --> 00:09:53.850 It's still an open question. 196 00:09:54.450 --> 00:09:57.070 Yes, it absolutely is. And crypto has thrived in that 197 00:09:57.110 --> 00:10:00.480 gray area. where is it a currency? Is it an 198 00:10:00.539 --> 00:10:04.000 investment like a security? The industry is terrified of being 199 00:10:04.039 --> 00:10:09.950 regulated like an investment because investments, securities have investor protections. 200 00:10:10.009 --> 00:10:11.629 You need to know who you're giving your money to 201 00:10:12.009 --> 00:10:14.610 and what the F they're doing with the money. And 202 00:10:14.769 --> 00:10:17.529 crypto is The industry doesn't want that. Gee, I wonder why. 203 00:10:17.929 --> 00:10:20.830 So there's been this whole battle on Capitol Hill over 204 00:10:21.129 --> 00:10:23.769 a piece of legislation called the Clarity Act. And I 205 00:10:23.789 --> 00:10:27.500 was down in D.C. testifying and we won. The Clarity 206 00:10:27.539 --> 00:10:32.139 Act didn't pass. But since then, Trump had the press 207 00:10:32.179 --> 00:10:34.940 conference in the White House with the crypto execs. Yeah. 208 00:10:35.500 --> 00:10:37.840 and the regulators that are supposed to be regulating them, 209 00:10:38.019 --> 00:10:39.519 like the head of the SEC and the head of 210 00:10:39.539 --> 00:10:40.200 the CFTC. 211 00:10:40.539 --> 00:10:43.340 How that seems, there's independence and regulation. I don't see that, 212 00:10:43.360 --> 00:10:44.220 but keep on going, yeah. 213 00:10:44.279 --> 00:10:47.179 I mean, absurd. And what was the announcement about? The 214 00:10:47.200 --> 00:10:51.519 announcement was effectively, yeah, we didn't pass the legislation. And 215 00:10:51.539 --> 00:10:53.379 by the way, why did they not pass the legislation? 216 00:10:53.799 --> 00:10:56.899 Because the Democrats were insisting on an ethics provision that 217 00:10:56.919 --> 00:11:00.970 would keep Trump from making another billion dollars off crypto. 218 00:11:01.000 --> 00:11:04.049 And Trump couldn't do that, right? So Trump holds this 219 00:11:04.090 --> 00:11:05.909 press conference in the White House after this bill has 220 00:11:05.929 --> 00:11:08.629 been defeated and says effectively, doesn't matter. We're going to 221 00:11:08.649 --> 00:11:11.340 do it anyway. And sure enough, the SEC has just 222 00:11:11.379 --> 00:11:13.980 issued rules that will make it easier to issue crypto assets. 223 00:11:15.220 --> 00:11:19.779 The Trump family has got a provisional banking license, a 224 00:11:19.879 --> 00:11:24.980 banking license for his World Liberty Financial. Outrageous. This is 225 00:11:25.059 --> 00:11:28.090 really bad. What happens is these guys get into the system. 226 00:11:28.110 --> 00:11:31.970 They profit massively off of it. And we are creating 227 00:11:32.110 --> 00:11:35.350 systemic risk. We are creating the risk of a contagion 228 00:11:35.370 --> 00:11:39.509 effect where when crypto crashes again, which it will because 229 00:11:39.549 --> 00:11:43.620 it has repeatedly over its brief but tortured history, when 230 00:11:43.659 --> 00:11:47.080 it crashes again, it could contribute to the next financial crisis. 231 00:11:47.299 --> 00:11:50.899 And we could end up bailing these MFers out again. 232 00:11:51.460 --> 00:11:52.700 It is outrageous. 233 00:11:53.279 --> 00:11:56.080 And we've seen historically efforts to bail out these industries 234 00:11:56.120 --> 00:11:59.110 has not helped us. In fact, it's turned out to 235 00:11:59.169 --> 00:12:01.590 just fund them to continue to go screw us again 236 00:12:01.710 --> 00:12:02.330 as consumers. 237 00:12:02.730 --> 00:12:06.470 Yes. And we saw in the film, the last crypto 238 00:12:06.509 --> 00:12:09.190 crash was 2022. And that's when most of the events 239 00:12:09.210 --> 00:12:11.149 in the film take place. I interview Sam and then 240 00:12:11.169 --> 00:12:13.340 he ends up, you know, being arrested and going to jail. 241 00:12:14.220 --> 00:12:17.080 And I'm called to testify to the Senate Banking Committee 242 00:12:17.100 --> 00:12:21.539 in December, just days after his arrest. And I'm asked 243 00:12:21.580 --> 00:12:23.919 by one of the senators at the end of our session, 244 00:12:25.470 --> 00:12:29.870 What should we think about crypto getting into our banking system? 245 00:12:29.970 --> 00:12:33.490 And Kevin O'Leary is testifying opposite me. And of course, 246 00:12:33.590 --> 00:12:34.100 he loves it. 247 00:12:34.509 --> 00:12:36.870 This is Kevin O'Leary, folks, that we talk about to 248 00:12:36.909 --> 00:12:38.210 vis-a-vis data centers. 249 00:12:38.309 --> 00:12:40.789 So he's also been in the crypto world. 250 00:12:41.549 --> 00:12:43.409 It's going to shock your audience, but he's also on 251 00:12:43.429 --> 00:12:46.289 the wrong side of the issue when it comes to 252 00:12:46.309 --> 00:12:49.049 crypto as well and profiting off of it, of course, naturally. 253 00:12:49.700 --> 00:12:51.899 So Kevin's like, we have to integrate crypto into our 254 00:12:51.919 --> 00:12:55.539 banking system. We'll lose the war of innovation. Um, okay. 255 00:12:56.159 --> 00:12:59.259 And I say it's, it'll, it's playing with fire. It'll 256 00:12:59.279 --> 00:13:01.490 be a disaster if we do it. Three months later, 257 00:13:01.759 --> 00:13:04.610 three months after I testified in December and March, three 258 00:13:04.690 --> 00:13:08.210 banks failed in the United States, all three tied to crypto. 259 00:13:08.710 --> 00:13:11.250 They failed. We had to bail them out. It was 260 00:13:11.289 --> 00:13:13.169 a lot of venture capitalists. It was a lot of 261 00:13:13.250 --> 00:13:16.870 money coming out of Silicon Valley. And I think it 262 00:13:16.889 --> 00:13:19.750 was probably the right short term decision to keep the 263 00:13:19.769 --> 00:13:23.299 contagion from spreading, but it's outrageous. that not only have 264 00:13:23.320 --> 00:13:26.259 we not remedied the situation since then, it's gotten worse. 265 00:13:26.820 --> 00:13:29.720 Now crypto is further into our regulated system already. Trump's 266 00:13:29.759 --> 00:13:31.419 trying to do whatever he can to get it even further. 267 00:13:31.940 --> 00:13:34.000 What happens when it crashes again? Does it take down 268 00:13:34.019 --> 00:13:35.429 the whole system? We don't know. 269 00:13:36.110 --> 00:13:37.490 Which is a terrifying prospect. 270 00:13:37.549 --> 00:13:40.830 And look, there's also this other bill that we're keeping 271 00:13:40.889 --> 00:13:44.090 our eye on called the Parity Act. It's interesting because 272 00:13:44.129 --> 00:13:48.519 it's a bipartisan bill. introduced piece of legislation that would 273 00:13:48.580 --> 00:13:53.830 exempt the smaller stablecoin transactions that were under $ 200 from 274 00:13:53.870 --> 00:13:56.809 being reported for purposes of capital gains tax. And it 275 00:13:56.850 --> 00:14:00.480 would defer taxation on staking rewards for five years. 276 00:14:00.549 --> 00:14:04.200 Totally separate. I mean, you have these legislators that. 277 00:14:04.080 --> 00:14:07.019 Are introducing this legislation. And again, Ben, they're not understanding 278 00:14:07.440 --> 00:14:10.419 what's at stake. They're just getting lobbied so damn hard. 279 00:14:11.090 --> 00:14:11.830 That it makes sense. 280 00:14:11.870 --> 00:14:13.470 But then you do have, and I want to make 281 00:14:13.509 --> 00:14:15.419 sure we shout them out, you know, people like Senator 282 00:14:15.500 --> 00:14:19.320 Elizabeth Warren, right? Who's like, look, no, this is corruption 283 00:14:19.899 --> 00:14:20.360 on steroids. 284 00:14:20.519 --> 00:14:21.620 By the way, she's very clear. 285 00:14:21.700 --> 00:14:24.059 She's not anti-crypto. She just wants to make sure that 286 00:14:24.080 --> 00:14:30.139 there's guardrails in place that would allow that, you know. 287 00:14:30.370 --> 00:14:32.350 Real ethics teeth exist. 288 00:14:32.830 --> 00:14:36.350 Because right now what's been proposed in various things, including 289 00:14:36.389 --> 00:14:40.059 the Clarity Act, doesn't really have any teeth. There's really 290 00:14:40.279 --> 00:14:44.419 just no way to prevent further corruption, especially by Trump 291 00:14:44.600 --> 00:14:45.870 and the Trump crime family. 292 00:14:46.230 --> 00:14:48.769 Yeah, and to be clear, that's what I'm advocating for 293 00:14:48.850 --> 00:14:51.730 as well. I'm not advocating for crypto to be outlawed 294 00:14:51.850 --> 00:14:54.850 because it wouldn't work. Crypto has existed, you know, in 295 00:14:54.870 --> 00:14:55.710 these gray and black markets. 296 00:14:55.730 --> 00:14:56.850 In some weird space, yeah. 297 00:14:56.889 --> 00:14:58.970 Yeah, on the internet, you know, and you're never going 298 00:14:58.990 --> 00:15:01.269 to be able to get rid of it. You shouldn't 299 00:15:01.289 --> 00:15:04.370 even try. All it needs to be is properly regulated 300 00:15:05.070 --> 00:15:09.879 as securities, as investments. And let's see what happens. Let's 301 00:15:09.919 --> 00:15:11.659 see if these investments, which by the way, what are 302 00:15:11.679 --> 00:15:14.429 you investing in, right? It's just lines of computer code 303 00:15:14.750 --> 00:15:18.769 stored on ledgers called blockchains. There's no real, real world 304 00:15:18.870 --> 00:15:22.350 use case for crypto other than crime. That's the use case. 305 00:15:22.429 --> 00:15:26.129 The use case is sending something of value instantaneously somewhere 306 00:15:26.149 --> 00:15:29.340 in the world, avoiding the banking system. That's why criminals 307 00:15:29.399 --> 00:15:32.620 love crypto. That's why the Iranians are using crypto to 308 00:15:32.659 --> 00:15:36.580 be paid for their ships passing through the Strait of Hormuz. That's, 309 00:15:36.960 --> 00:15:40.759 Trump is in bed with a guy whose exchange was 310 00:15:40.879 --> 00:15:44.700 laundering their money, the Iranians' money, this guy named Shengpeng Zhao. 311 00:15:45.000 --> 00:15:46.840 Oh, the guy who got pardoned? That guy? 312 00:15:46.860 --> 00:15:50.039 And then Trump pardoned him. And then this guy also 313 00:15:50.100 --> 00:15:54.279 invested through an investment firm in the UAE $ 2 billion 314 00:15:54.820 --> 00:15:58.679 in Trump's stablecoin business. So this stinks to high heaven. 315 00:15:59.470 --> 00:16:01.669 But to your point, I am not saying it should 316 00:16:01.690 --> 00:16:05.570 be outlawed. And I am the one trying to protect investors. 317 00:16:05.769 --> 00:16:08.570 Elizabeth Warren is the one trying to protect investors. What 318 00:16:08.590 --> 00:16:11.490 the industry is doing is preying on its own customers, 319 00:16:12.029 --> 00:16:15.789 indoctrinating them into this cult-like situation where they believe that 320 00:16:16.090 --> 00:16:19.889 if you criticize crypto, somehow I'm the bad guy, and 321 00:16:20.450 --> 00:16:25.110 trying to simultaneously not have regular investor protections for their 322 00:16:25.149 --> 00:16:28.029 own customers. If they gave a shit about their customers, 323 00:16:28.070 --> 00:16:29.389 they would try to protect them, but they don't. 324 00:16:30.509 --> 00:16:33.710 Well, because that actually would be an occupational hazard for them, 325 00:16:33.730 --> 00:16:37.350 would it not? I mean, it's the whole premise of 326 00:16:38.049 --> 00:16:39.220 their commerce, right? 327 00:16:39.259 --> 00:16:41.120 I mean, it's the whole theory of how they make 328 00:16:41.159 --> 00:16:43.759 it work is a presumption that people either are not 329 00:16:43.779 --> 00:16:46.019 paying attention or they don't really understand, which is why 330 00:16:46.039 --> 00:16:47.840 I bet you a million bucks if you tried to 331 00:16:47.899 --> 00:16:52.809 test basic crypto literacy for 99% of Congress, they would 332 00:16:52.850 --> 00:16:55.049 have no effing clue what the hell you're talking. 333 00:16:55.820 --> 00:16:57.799 They wouldn't, and not to be ageist, but there is 334 00:16:57.860 --> 00:17:00.679 an age issue there with a certain generation not really 335 00:17:00.740 --> 00:17:04.000 understanding things that are native to the internet, not understanding 336 00:17:04.339 --> 00:17:09.200 just how much misinformation is out there. So there's that issue. 337 00:17:09.480 --> 00:17:12.859 But there's also the issue, of course, again, as we've 338 00:17:12.880 --> 00:17:15.960 seen so often in our sort of, I don't want 339 00:17:15.980 --> 00:17:19.740 to say broken political system, but certainly deeply flawed, is 340 00:17:20.240 --> 00:17:23.349 Citizens United has just opened up the floodgates and the 341 00:17:23.480 --> 00:17:27.450 unlimited spending means that the representatives don't really have an 342 00:17:27.470 --> 00:17:31.190 incentive to understand it. Like, it's almost better for them, 343 00:17:31.450 --> 00:17:34.410 probably psychologically as well. They don't understand. All they understand 344 00:17:34.470 --> 00:17:36.180 is the dollars, the real money that's coming in. 345 00:17:36.190 --> 00:17:37.190 Yeah, that's coming in to help them. 346 00:17:37.309 --> 00:17:42.339 Yeah. So, you know, it's a very bad situation. But 347 00:17:42.410 --> 00:17:46.480 I will say this. When you say 99% of people 348 00:17:46.500 --> 00:17:48.359 on Capitol Hill, like the senators, donors, and I think 349 00:17:48.380 --> 00:17:52.950 that's probably true, or certainly it's in the 90s, And 350 00:17:52.970 --> 00:17:55.750 there are good senators like Chris Van Hollen, like Elizabeth Warren, 351 00:17:57.269 --> 00:18:03.730 who are fantastic. But Bernie Sanders. But it's also true 352 00:18:03.769 --> 00:18:06.880 that the majority of the public doesn't know much about crypto. 353 00:18:07.200 --> 00:18:09.259 Which is why your film is amazing. I mean, I'm 354 00:18:09.660 --> 00:18:11.880 not bullshitting people because you and I are friends. I mean, 355 00:18:12.140 --> 00:18:15.859 your film, you said accessible. And that's such a fantastic 356 00:18:15.980 --> 00:18:20.119 adjective because, Ben, it literally explains it. And then it 357 00:18:20.279 --> 00:18:24.059 develops your theory on it and improves it empirically through 358 00:18:24.079 --> 00:18:25.539 the course of the film. I mean, that is why 359 00:18:25.859 --> 00:18:27.440 I think it's important for people to see it. It 360 00:18:28.759 --> 00:18:32.839 knocks down the barriers to entry to an understanding of 361 00:18:32.880 --> 00:18:34.640 what it is because a lot of people are so 362 00:18:34.700 --> 00:18:37.859 intimidated by it that they pretend like they understand it 363 00:18:37.900 --> 00:18:40.569 so that they're not judged because everybody talks about it. 364 00:18:40.680 --> 00:18:44.619 But in reality, again, people don't understand what it is. 365 00:18:45.869 --> 00:18:48.250 When I tell people what I'm doing, And I asked 366 00:18:48.269 --> 00:18:50.930 them what they think about cryptocurrency, the people that aren't 367 00:18:50.990 --> 00:18:53.579 in crypto, which is the majority of the overwhelming majority 368 00:18:53.599 --> 00:18:57.460 of the country, 84% of the country has never, ever 369 00:18:57.559 --> 00:19:00.099 messed around with this crypto stuff, 84%. And yet we've 370 00:19:00.119 --> 00:19:02.400 all heard the word. And so when I ask people 371 00:19:02.599 --> 00:19:05.109 what they think of it, they almost always say some 372 00:19:05.150 --> 00:19:09.390 version of, I don't know, it seems complicated. Maybe I'm 373 00:19:09.430 --> 00:19:11.369 not that smart, but it seems pretty scant. 374 00:19:12.769 --> 00:19:15.609 Look at that self-deprecation like straight out of the gate, right? 375 00:19:15.910 --> 00:19:18.750 Well, it's because the end of what I want people 376 00:19:18.769 --> 00:19:21.910 to understand is it's not you. You are smart enough 377 00:19:21.950 --> 00:19:24.509 to understand it. Does it seem like a scam? Trust 378 00:19:24.529 --> 00:19:27.410 your instincts. You're right. Let me explain to you why 379 00:19:27.470 --> 00:19:32.470 you're right, how you're right. But the industry relies on convincing. 380 00:19:32.819 --> 00:19:36.240 It's the metaphor I use in the book is the 381 00:19:36.299 --> 00:19:41.309 emperor's new clothes. is this, it's an incredible story, because 382 00:19:41.349 --> 00:19:44.319 it's so true, right, about human behavior. What an incredibly 383 00:19:44.380 --> 00:19:49.539 astute observation that the tailors trick people, adults, into believing 384 00:19:49.990 --> 00:19:53.690 that these imaginary clothes that they weave are real out 385 00:19:53.730 --> 00:19:56.210 of appealing to their ego, out of saying only the 386 00:19:56.279 --> 00:19:59.119 smartest people can understand this. If you can't understand this, 387 00:19:59.140 --> 00:20:02.259 you're just not smart enough. And so most people go, okay, 388 00:20:02.279 --> 00:20:04.519 I guess I'm not smart enough. Leave me alone, weirdos. 389 00:20:05.019 --> 00:20:07.900 But for a certain percentage of the public, they get 390 00:20:07.940 --> 00:20:10.490 pulled into that. You get sucked into that. And then 391 00:20:10.950 --> 00:20:16.309 they believe. And the net result is you have a 392 00:20:16.369 --> 00:20:19.380 small portion of the public, very small, like less than 393 00:20:19.380 --> 00:20:23.099 5% that really, really, really believe in that stuff. I 394 00:20:23.140 --> 00:20:25.680 think they're in a cult. I really do. Like there's 395 00:20:25.700 --> 00:20:28.599 a lot of cult dynamics that happen. And I say 396 00:20:28.640 --> 00:20:30.420 that with love, I say that with sympathy, but like, 397 00:20:30.460 --> 00:20:32.019 I do think that's kind of what we're looking at. 398 00:20:32.259 --> 00:20:35.119 It's like a microcosm of MAGA, but like tucked into 399 00:20:35.140 --> 00:20:40.220 this very small niche of like dudes, young guys in particular. Um, 400 00:20:41.140 --> 00:20:44.839 and those people, I, I look, I show them in 401 00:20:44.859 --> 00:20:47.059