WEBVTT 1 00:00:07.080 --> 00:00:16.800 Ready July thirty, twenty twenty four, allegedly according to that 2 00:00:16.839 --> 00:00:17.839 thing we call a calendar. 3 00:00:18.120 --> 00:00:20.480 Wow, this month has gone by really quickly. 4 00:00:21.199 --> 00:00:24.079 Anyway, it is Tuesday, Tuesday, and it is the second 5 00:00:24.079 --> 00:00:25.920 broadcast day of the week because I actually did a 6 00:00:25.920 --> 00:00:29.440 show on Monday, which I don't normally do, and I've 7 00:00:29.440 --> 00:00:32.159 released the audio of it, but a special video edit 8 00:00:32.200 --> 00:00:34.560 of it is going to be put out later today 9 00:00:34.719 --> 00:00:37.799 or tomorrow, not sure which we'll get to it. I've 10 00:00:37.799 --> 00:00:41.719 been a little behind. But anyway, speaking about behind and 11 00:00:41.759 --> 00:00:44.960 what's ahead, let's get to a couple of things. First 12 00:00:44.960 --> 00:00:47.119 of all, the jfk lnswer conference is going to occur 13 00:00:47.200 --> 00:00:51.280 on the twenty second of November, exactly on the anniversary, 14 00:00:51.399 --> 00:00:55.039 all right, at the Downtown Marriott in Dallas, and there 15 00:00:55.079 --> 00:00:58.399 will be details in the show notes there. Larry Hancock 16 00:00:58.600 --> 00:01:01.000 is involved in that now. I believe he's going to 17 00:01:01.079 --> 00:01:06.040 participate remotely this year, which kind of would rather that 18 00:01:06.120 --> 00:01:09.719 Larry's there, but it's okay. I'm gonna be there anyway, 19 00:01:10.680 --> 00:01:14.760 and oh boy, look, I'm no replacement for Larry, that's 20 00:01:14.799 --> 00:01:19.599 for sure, but it's gonna be an interesting conference. So 21 00:01:20.079 --> 00:01:22.319 I have Larry with me tonight and of course he's 22 00:01:22.359 --> 00:01:23.799 the author of many books. And if you go to 23 00:01:23.879 --> 00:01:26.359 Larry dash Hancock dot com you can keep track of 24 00:01:26.400 --> 00:01:27.920 his blog. You can take a look at the many, 25 00:01:27.920 --> 00:01:30.879 many books, all of which I think I have on 26 00:01:30.920 --> 00:01:33.879 my sholf and he does take up more space on 27 00:01:33.920 --> 00:01:34.959 my shelf than anybody else. 28 00:01:35.000 --> 00:01:38.920 And he's not just taking up space. Now, before I. 29 00:01:39.000 --> 00:01:41.680 Even say hello to Larry, I gotta throw something out 30 00:01:41.719 --> 00:01:44.000 here because I know what he's going to discuss. 31 00:01:44.239 --> 00:01:45.920 And this is. 32 00:01:45.920 --> 00:01:55.400 Necessary because from the best to the worst of authors, bloggers, YouTubers, podcasters, everybody, 33 00:01:56.079 --> 00:02:00.079 I would dare say, everybody that I've ever listened to 34 00:02:00.280 --> 00:02:06.120 or read, you know, in recent years, especially and maybe 35 00:02:06.120 --> 00:02:09.120 from the nineteen eighties on. I think I think Mark 36 00:02:09.199 --> 00:02:13.120 Lane used to talk about this, I mean everybody. The 37 00:02:13.199 --> 00:02:15.919 whole idea that JFK said he was going to smash 38 00:02:16.080 --> 00:02:19.639 the CIA into a thousand pieces and cast it to 39 00:02:19.719 --> 00:02:24.919 the four Wins or some version of that quote, that sentiment, 40 00:02:25.000 --> 00:02:28.800 that idea. You have the Croc article, you have the 41 00:02:29.199 --> 00:02:34.520 various other mentions of this happening. You have his battle 42 00:02:34.599 --> 00:02:37.719 with the CIA, and then people do reference, you know, 43 00:02:37.759 --> 00:02:40.960 the firing of Allen Dallas, which was really a resignation. 44 00:02:41.039 --> 00:02:42.719 He just asked for a resignation. He got it. 45 00:02:43.240 --> 00:02:47.360 The Bay of Pigs, Cuba, Well, we've learned a lot 46 00:02:47.479 --> 00:02:51.520 about that over the years. And even when the book 47 00:02:51.599 --> 00:02:56.080 Ultimate Sacrifice was huge, people were talking about this. People 48 00:02:56.120 --> 00:02:58.360 were talking about this and still continue to and I 49 00:02:58.439 --> 00:03:01.560 say again, people reference this for all kinds of reasons. 50 00:03:02.800 --> 00:03:05.120 And Larry, I. 51 00:03:05.039 --> 00:03:07.840 Gotta tell you, I don't think the majority of people 52 00:03:07.840 --> 00:03:11.439 who mention it are putting it in context, understanding what 53 00:03:11.479 --> 00:03:14.360 it means. They just take it and use it for 54 00:03:14.439 --> 00:03:18.960 their own purpose. This oppositional thing the JFK was battling 55 00:03:20.000 --> 00:03:23.599 with the CIA. Of course, I would recommend when we're 56 00:03:23.599 --> 00:03:27.039 talking about this stuff books by Larry Hancock, like Tipping Point. 57 00:03:27.400 --> 00:03:31.479 Someone would have talked, okay, things like that, and a 58 00:03:31.520 --> 00:03:33.360 book which I hope will be out by the end 59 00:03:33.360 --> 00:03:36.719 of this year about Oswald Oswald Lee Harvey Oswald. Puzzle 60 00:03:36.719 --> 00:03:39.879 Pieces is that the permanent name now puzzle pieces? 61 00:03:39.960 --> 00:03:45.560 Larry now literally way simplified it. It is simply the Oswald. 62 00:03:45.000 --> 00:03:46.960 Puzzle, the Oswald puzzle. 63 00:03:47.080 --> 00:03:48.919 Well, either way, you're going to get the pieces of 64 00:03:48.960 --> 00:03:53.240 the puzzle in there, So the Oswald puzzle that's actually 65 00:03:53.280 --> 00:03:56.199 more concise and better. But of course Larry would do that, 66 00:03:56.319 --> 00:04:01.479 he's a writer. I'm not so anyway, But Larry, what 67 00:04:01.520 --> 00:04:03.439 are your thoughts on this? I mean, where do we 68 00:04:03.520 --> 00:04:07.719 begin to take this apart? Because I know I'm right 69 00:04:07.960 --> 00:04:10.840 almost everybody, and I do mean from the best to 70 00:04:10.919 --> 00:04:15.680 the worst, from the deepest researchers to the people that 71 00:04:15.800 --> 00:04:18.279 just seem to have a casual knowledge and are really 72 00:04:18.360 --> 00:04:22.519 you know, pedestrian of podcasters who go, well, I think 73 00:04:22.560 --> 00:04:25.360 there was a conspiracy, but they have no idea which 74 00:04:25.399 --> 00:04:27.720 direction to go in. They have no idea about the 75 00:04:27.720 --> 00:04:30.759 facts of the case. They just parrot things. And this 76 00:04:30.839 --> 00:04:33.959 is one of those things that's been parroted repeatedly. JFK 77 00:04:34.160 --> 00:04:36.959 was going to smash the CIA into a thousand pieces 78 00:04:37.639 --> 00:04:40.240 and cast it to the winds, to the four corners 79 00:04:40.240 --> 00:04:43.560 of the earth. Different versions, like I said, in different times, 80 00:04:43.560 --> 00:04:46.879 in different places, but the sentiment is still the same. 81 00:04:48.199 --> 00:04:50.680 Do you think my observation is accurate? 82 00:04:52.240 --> 00:04:56.160 No, it's or yes, it's absolutely accurate, Chuck. I think 83 00:04:56.680 --> 00:04:59.720 it comes from this urge that we seem to have 84 00:04:59.800 --> 00:05:06.399 to want to simplify matters to really especially we've developed 85 00:05:06.519 --> 00:05:09.399 a tendency I think over the years to kind of 86 00:05:09.480 --> 00:05:15.120 view everybody being against JFK and JFK being against everybody, 87 00:05:15.600 --> 00:05:18.360 and that, you know, setting up part of the context 88 00:05:18.360 --> 00:05:22.040 for the assassination, where in fact, if you really go 89 00:05:22.160 --> 00:05:27.959 back to the history, for example, JFK owed a great 90 00:05:28.040 --> 00:05:32.000 deal to the CIA and was very impressed with what 91 00:05:32.120 --> 00:05:36.040 the CIA was doing in intelligence collections. If the CI 92 00:05:36.160 --> 00:05:41.240 had not done an job with its photo reconnaissance actually 93 00:05:41.519 --> 00:05:45.800 taking command of military assets, but using the U two 94 00:05:45.879 --> 00:05:50.360 as well, he would not have had the data that 95 00:05:50.439 --> 00:05:54.399 he had to manage the Cuban missile crisis. He would 96 00:05:54.399 --> 00:05:57.079 not have had the data that he had to even 97 00:05:57.360 --> 00:06:00.720 maintain the position that the Russians had hold out their 98 00:06:00.759 --> 00:06:05.160 missiles because they were he was getting photographs of, you know, 99 00:06:05.319 --> 00:06:08.199 missiles uncovered going. 100 00:06:07.920 --> 00:06:09.279 Out on ships. 101 00:06:09.279 --> 00:06:14.959 So his respect for CIA intelligence collection and the National 102 00:06:15.040 --> 00:06:21.120 Photo Interpretation Center was quite high, so as well as 103 00:06:21.399 --> 00:06:25.240 as his analysis at that point in time, he actually 104 00:06:25.279 --> 00:06:29.279 respected that a lot more than the military intelligence. 105 00:06:29.319 --> 00:06:31.639 He was getting it during the Cuban missile. 106 00:06:31.360 --> 00:06:37.439 Crisis, which was quite sensationalized, exaggerated, and not nearly as 107 00:06:37.519 --> 00:06:41.759 good as the CIA. In conso, the fact that he 108 00:06:41.879 --> 00:06:46.360 was totally upset with everything about the CIA simply is 109 00:06:46.399 --> 00:06:49.800 not accurate. The same thing we often betray him as 110 00:06:49.839 --> 00:06:55.759 being somehow hostile to the military. When JEFFK himself personally 111 00:06:56.000 --> 00:07:03.319 entered involved themselves with more major military exercises than any president. 112 00:07:04.800 --> 00:07:08.800 He had been very supportive of the military. In the 113 00:07:08.839 --> 00:07:12.399 two years prior to his assassination, he had ordered a 114 00:07:12.680 --> 00:07:18.399 major military exercise in the Atlantic staging for a Cuban invasion, 115 00:07:19.000 --> 00:07:23.319 and had been very involved with that, And so he 116 00:07:23.519 --> 00:07:26.759 he wasn't any one thing. I think the answer to 117 00:07:26.759 --> 00:07:31.519 your question is, in our our search to simplify everything, 118 00:07:31.720 --> 00:07:35.439 we make it all single faceted. And that's not the 119 00:07:35.480 --> 00:07:38.560 way reality is, and certainly not the way JFK was. 120 00:07:39.480 --> 00:07:44.759 JFK just aware of the shortcomings and strengths of these 121 00:07:44.879 --> 00:07:45.959 various agencies. 122 00:07:46.040 --> 00:07:48.720 Well, look, just like life, Larry, the reality is that 123 00:07:48.759 --> 00:07:52.480 most things reside in the gray areas. Okay, So yeah, 124 00:07:52.519 --> 00:07:56.680 there was the he was definitely using the military assets. 125 00:07:56.920 --> 00:07:59.079 He had to manage a lot of things, from the 126 00:07:59.199 --> 00:08:01.959 you know, the issue over East and West Germany. Uh, 127 00:08:02.160 --> 00:08:04.879 you know, to problems in South what we called Southeast 128 00:08:04.959 --> 00:08:08.600 Asia or Endo China as it was described back then. Right, Uh, 129 00:08:08.639 --> 00:08:12.199 you know that area of the world, which eventually blossoms 130 00:08:12.240 --> 00:08:15.839 into the Vietnam conflict. But still there's a lot going on. 131 00:08:16.160 --> 00:08:20.480 So he's utilizing these assets. There were adversarial relationships here, 132 00:08:20.800 --> 00:08:23.639 and there were problems, like we hear during some of 133 00:08:23.680 --> 00:08:29.759 these meetings right with his Joint chiefs and other assets 134 00:08:29.800 --> 00:08:32.639 that are supposed to be informing him. He's getting angry 135 00:08:32.639 --> 00:08:36.519 with people, they're making recommendations he doesn't want to hear sometimes. 136 00:08:36.840 --> 00:08:38.960 But it doesn't mean that that's all there was to it. 137 00:08:40.480 --> 00:08:43.960 There is and those were individuals those aren't you know, 138 00:08:44.039 --> 00:08:46.720 you can talk about le May, or you can talk 139 00:08:46.759 --> 00:08:52.480 about Commander in Chief Atlantic during the Cuban missile crisis. 140 00:08:52.480 --> 00:08:56.879 Certainly there were individual face offs, right, But I think 141 00:08:56.559 --> 00:08:59.080 I think it's fascinating. 142 00:08:59.200 --> 00:09:02.080 Again, we tend to look at it one facet. 143 00:09:02.440 --> 00:09:05.240 Somebody asked, JFK is kind of like, well, clearly you 144 00:09:05.240 --> 00:09:08.879 don't like le May, and le May doesn't like you. Okay, 145 00:09:09.200 --> 00:09:13.120 why in the world, Julet, why is he head of 146 00:09:13.159 --> 00:09:17.159 the Joint Chiefs of Staff if you don't And JFK said, yeah, 147 00:09:17.440 --> 00:09:21.720 I don't like him. But if for some unforsaken, god 148 00:09:21.759 --> 00:09:25.519 forsaken reason, we end up going to go war against Russia. 149 00:09:25.840 --> 00:09:28.559 I want him as the military commander because he's the 150 00:09:28.600 --> 00:09:29.879 most likely guy to win it. 151 00:09:30.399 --> 00:09:31.159 See that's the thing. 152 00:09:31.440 --> 00:09:34.080 He was a practicist. We don't give him credit for that. 153 00:09:34.200 --> 00:09:36.559 Well that's the thing. He might not have liked le Maay, 154 00:09:36.759 --> 00:09:39.879 but he knew that let's be blood. If somebody had 155 00:09:39.879 --> 00:09:42.840 to loose hell on an adversary, LeMay was your man. 156 00:09:43.480 --> 00:09:45.919 I mean, this is the guy who firebombed and did 157 00:09:45.960 --> 00:09:48.360 more damage with firebombing than we did with nukes. 158 00:09:49.120 --> 00:09:52.519 Uh you know, from the air during World War Two? 159 00:09:52.720 --> 00:09:53.399 Am I correct? 160 00:09:54.480 --> 00:09:54.679 Oh? 161 00:09:54.720 --> 00:09:58.000 Absolutely, So this is the guy I would pick two. 162 00:09:58.120 --> 00:09:59.960 I might not like him, but I would say, look, 163 00:10:00.000 --> 00:10:01.840 if I got my back against the wall and I've 164 00:10:01.840 --> 00:10:04.360 got to start bombing things, this is the guy I 165 00:10:04.399 --> 00:10:06.480 want in there. I want the most vicious fighter I 166 00:10:06.480 --> 00:10:10.320 can sin. And LeMay was definitely the guy who could 167 00:10:10.559 --> 00:10:12.240 plan and execute something like that. 168 00:10:12.279 --> 00:10:14.759 He had already proven it. This is why he ascended. 169 00:10:15.360 --> 00:10:15.919 Uh So. 170 00:10:16.559 --> 00:10:18.200 But it doesn't mean that they were going to get 171 00:10:18.200 --> 00:10:20.759 along all the time. Now, when we look at the CIA, 172 00:10:20.879 --> 00:10:24.559 that's an even more complex relationship because people, you know, 173 00:10:24.600 --> 00:10:26.759 they love to point to the regular characters, right, James 174 00:10:26.840 --> 00:10:30.080 Jesus Angleton yes, I know he's a huge looming figure, 175 00:10:30.399 --> 00:10:35.159 and certainly he's rather complex and fascinating. But is he 176 00:10:35.240 --> 00:10:41.519 the guy who's like directly interacting with Jafka at that time? No, right, 177 00:10:42.000 --> 00:10:45.120 And meanwhile, who is interacting with him? What kind of 178 00:10:45.159 --> 00:10:49.639 relationship is he having? And all these Cuban operations, people 179 00:10:49.879 --> 00:10:51.879 just kind of make it out like, Okay, Nixon was 180 00:10:51.919 --> 00:10:54.919 the operation officer, he hands it over to JFK in 181 00:10:55.039 --> 00:10:59.639 nineteen sixty one when JFK takes office. But that's not 182 00:10:59.759 --> 00:11:02.360 the tirety of the story either. Maybe he wasn't in 183 00:11:02.440 --> 00:11:05.799 on the planning of the Bay of Pigs, you know, 184 00:11:06.320 --> 00:11:09.440 per se, but it doesn't mean that he wasn't behind it. 185 00:11:09.440 --> 00:11:10.960 It doesn't mean that he didn't say, you know what, 186 00:11:11.000 --> 00:11:13.039 this is a good idea. We need to deal with 187 00:11:13.080 --> 00:11:16.639 this problem in the backyard. Still a cold warrior, not 188 00:11:16.720 --> 00:11:19.960 necessarily the dove everybody wants to make Kennedy out to be. 189 00:11:20.039 --> 00:11:23.200 See again, he's more than one thing. He's not all 190 00:11:23.279 --> 00:11:25.600 for let's go to war and let's see if we 191 00:11:25.639 --> 00:11:29.159 can win a nuclear conflict with the Soviet Union, okay, 192 00:11:29.240 --> 00:11:32.320 which other people have that mindset at the time. But 193 00:11:32.480 --> 00:11:35.480 simultaneously he's not saying, Look, it's all about we just 194 00:11:35.519 --> 00:11:38.120 have to be peaceful. He might have made grand statements 195 00:11:38.159 --> 00:11:41.559 like that in public, and he certainly did multiple times 196 00:11:41.559 --> 00:11:43.480 about you know, we should be able to abolish all 197 00:11:43.519 --> 00:11:48.159 weapons and yeah, that's a wonderful utopian vision and an aspiration, 198 00:11:48.639 --> 00:11:50.799 but it doesn't mean that he's going to function that 199 00:11:50.840 --> 00:11:55.120 way on a day to day basis. Again, pragmatic solutions 200 00:11:55.519 --> 00:11:59.919 as opposed to aspirational you know, just wish it, wont 201 00:12:00.279 --> 00:12:03.080 do it whatever, you know, let me see if I 202 00:12:03.080 --> 00:12:04.519 can envision this and it'll happen. 203 00:12:04.639 --> 00:12:07.360 No, he wasn't like that, So yeah. 204 00:12:07.519 --> 00:12:12.919 Let's take another individual that really represents this multifaceted relationship. 205 00:12:13.240 --> 00:12:16.840 Alan Dulles. Right, okay, you mentioned Dallas already. 206 00:12:17.639 --> 00:12:22.279 It is I mean Alan Dulles during the Tailor Commission 207 00:12:22.799 --> 00:12:25.519 inquiry into the failure. 208 00:12:25.240 --> 00:12:27.879 The Bay of Pigs is on record and you. 209 00:12:27.840 --> 00:12:31.240 Can find his statements repeated in the Tailor Commission records 210 00:12:31.639 --> 00:12:37.279 as saying he concurs with the view that the CIA 211 00:12:37.840 --> 00:12:42.080 did a terrible job in covert military operations and in 212 00:12:42.120 --> 00:12:47.200 the future, the CIA should not be doing covert military operations. 213 00:12:47.639 --> 00:12:50.159 That needs to be taken from the CIA. It's not 214 00:12:50.279 --> 00:12:52.399 set up to do it well, it didn't. 215 00:12:52.159 --> 00:12:52.639 Do it well. 216 00:12:52.799 --> 00:12:56.480 That's Alan Dallas saying, you need, mister President, you need 217 00:12:56.519 --> 00:13:00.960 to take this away from the CIA. JFKs response actually 218 00:13:01.039 --> 00:13:05.320 is to do what Dells just told him to do, 219 00:13:05.879 --> 00:13:11.039 and he began a switchback project shortly after that, which 220 00:13:11.039 --> 00:13:16.519 he started first in Southeast Asia in Vietnam, moving CIA 221 00:13:16.720 --> 00:13:22.559 led covert military operations to the military, and then the 222 00:13:22.639 --> 00:13:27.600 following year, by Nancy sixty three, he was moving Cuban 223 00:13:28.200 --> 00:13:33.440 covert military operations to the to the military. 224 00:13:33.840 --> 00:13:36.399 And that that is for. 225 00:13:36.240 --> 00:13:42.320 Some reason, JFK researchers seemed to treat this as something mysterious. 226 00:13:42.279 --> 00:13:45.480 And you know, we don't know what's going on here. 227 00:13:45.519 --> 00:13:47.120 When suddenly, you know. 228 00:13:47.159 --> 00:13:51.080 The Joint Chief Staff people and it was probably going 229 00:13:51.120 --> 00:13:54.519 to end up under Commander in Chief Atlantic, which obviously 230 00:13:55.039 --> 00:13:57.720 she was in the Caribbean, it would be his responsibility. 231 00:13:58.200 --> 00:14:01.360 They start they start doing they start looking at how 232 00:14:01.360 --> 00:14:06.879 they're going to organize themselves for covert maritime operations, covert 233 00:14:07.440 --> 00:14:11.679 infiltration operations. That's when you see Army trainers start to 234 00:14:11.720 --> 00:14:15.720 show up in Florida. Why is brad Eyre's there? Suddenly 235 00:14:16.039 --> 00:14:18.639 like okay, this is going to be switched over. They 236 00:14:18.639 --> 00:14:21.000 better get to know the Cubans. They're going to be 237 00:14:21.080 --> 00:14:25.639 training and running it. And you know, you find this 238 00:14:25.799 --> 00:14:29.919 switchback occurring in nineteen sixty three. You even find the 239 00:14:30.000 --> 00:14:32.919 Joint Chief starting to inquire with the CIA. You know 240 00:14:33.320 --> 00:14:35.759 what about these dr people? 241 00:14:35.799 --> 00:14:38.799 Can we use them? What about Alpha sixty six? Can 242 00:14:38.799 --> 00:14:39.480 we use them? 243 00:14:39.840 --> 00:14:43.600 And the CI is going now Alpha sixty six we've 244 00:14:43.639 --> 00:14:46.879 never been able to control them, dre we can't control them. 245 00:14:47.279 --> 00:14:49.039 If you guys are going to do this, do it 246 00:14:49.080 --> 00:14:51.840 at your own risk. You know, this is what's really 247 00:14:51.879 --> 00:14:55.519 going on in the real world, is this switch back 248 00:14:55.799 --> 00:15:01.279 just as dull As recommended. And JFK is indeed breaking 249 00:15:01.399 --> 00:15:09.360 off a good chunk of CIA military operations, special operations, 250 00:15:09.600 --> 00:15:14.000 and that's going to the military, So you know it. 251 00:15:15.000 --> 00:15:18.080 I think it's fascinating that people don't talk about to 252 00:15:18.159 --> 00:15:21.960 FACK in that instance. JFK is actually doing what Alan 253 00:15:22.039 --> 00:15:24.320 Dulles recommended, breaking. 254 00:15:23.960 --> 00:15:28.000 Part of the CIA apart. But he's certainly not going 255 00:15:28.080 --> 00:15:31.559 to do away with ci. 256 00:15:31.399 --> 00:15:40.120 A intelligence collections, NSA intercept collection, CIA analysis photo interpretation, 257 00:15:41.000 --> 00:15:43.720 and if anything, he's adding to the whole mix by 258 00:15:43.720 --> 00:15:46.639 strengthening the events intelligence agency. 259 00:15:47.679 --> 00:15:52.600 Right, which is fairly new right at that point in time. 260 00:15:53.000 --> 00:15:56.879 And it's interesting because it would shrink the CIA a bit, 261 00:15:57.919 --> 00:16:02.679 but it doesn't change its initial mission, which you know, 262 00:16:02.840 --> 00:16:05.000 is to be at that clearinghouse, so yeah, go ahead. 263 00:16:06.279 --> 00:16:07.639 It doesn't change his mission. 264 00:16:07.759 --> 00:16:13.279 But it also reflects Kennedy's pragmatism. Kennedy had been burned 265 00:16:13.919 --> 00:16:18.720 during his campaign the Air Force, which had been running 266 00:16:18.759 --> 00:16:21.000 primarily before the CIA. 267 00:16:20.720 --> 00:16:22.919 Got the U two. 268 00:16:23.559 --> 00:16:28.799 The Air Force with its long range our forty seven 269 00:16:29.320 --> 00:16:32.840 jets had been doing photo reconnaissance of Russia. They're the 270 00:16:32.879 --> 00:16:36.600 ones that came out with the bomber crisis thing that 271 00:16:38.279 --> 00:16:42.080 posed trouble for the Iisenower administration. Then they came up 272 00:16:42.120 --> 00:16:46.440 with the missile crisis thing. And it was actually the 273 00:16:46.559 --> 00:16:52.200 U two that disproved the missile crisis thing. Not that 274 00:16:53.120 --> 00:16:55.840 either Ice an Hour or Kennedy could talk about it, 275 00:16:56.159 --> 00:16:59.679 but Kennedy was very well aware that he needed balance 276 00:17:00.519 --> 00:17:04.200 and one of the whole points was for the DIA 277 00:17:04.480 --> 00:17:07.279 and to merge this together. It's sort of like, I 278 00:17:07.319 --> 00:17:09.720 need some balance. I just don't want the Air Force 279 00:17:09.799 --> 00:17:12.400 talking to me. I just don't want the CIA talking 280 00:17:12.440 --> 00:17:17.000 to me. He's trying to institute his own checks and balances. Okay, 281 00:17:17.480 --> 00:17:21.400 the Navy collects a lot of information in certain areas. Actually, 282 00:17:21.759 --> 00:17:26.440 the Navy could have told JFK about the missile crisis 283 00:17:26.480 --> 00:17:30.240 because they were monitoring transports, but they weren't hooked into 284 00:17:30.279 --> 00:17:35.039 the system that well. So he's looking for a solution, 285 00:17:35.440 --> 00:17:40.039 an intelligence collection that doesn't expose him to any one venue, 286 00:17:40.240 --> 00:17:44.240 in any one agency or services agenda. He understood the 287 00:17:44.279 --> 00:17:47.680 Air Force at an agenda, we need bombers, we need missiles, 288 00:17:47.720 --> 00:17:51.640 give us the money, not the Navy, you know. So 289 00:17:51.680 --> 00:17:54.799 he had a real good grasp on it. It's quite frankly, 290 00:17:54.839 --> 00:17:55.960 the same thing we see. 291 00:17:55.880 --> 00:17:59.599 Him starting to do in Vietnam. He doesn't trust just 292 00:17:59.759 --> 00:18:03.519 one source. On Vietnam. I'm going to send out a group. 293 00:18:03.839 --> 00:18:05.279 I'm going to do fact finding. 294 00:18:06.519 --> 00:18:09.519 Any of these people could have their own agendas, and 295 00:18:10.240 --> 00:18:11.599 I'm gonna I've got. 296 00:18:11.480 --> 00:18:14.200 To hear from multiple people. That's the way he rolled. 297 00:18:14.559 --> 00:18:19.640 He was the first president ever to literally open hold 298 00:18:20.119 --> 00:18:25.440 open Security Council meetings where everybody was invited to talk 299 00:18:25.640 --> 00:18:28.119 and contend with each other, which is one of the 300 00:18:28.160 --> 00:18:30.960 reasons why we get the feeling that you know, he 301 00:18:31.119 --> 00:18:32.079 was involved. 302 00:18:31.720 --> 00:18:34.920 In a lot of contention. He wanted that. He actually 303 00:18:35.079 --> 00:18:38.079 encouraged it because he figured it would shake out what 304 00:18:38.200 --> 00:18:39.119 was really happening. 305 00:18:40.119 --> 00:18:42.559 Right, because look, if you can get three people that 306 00:18:42.640 --> 00:18:44.880 usually don't agree on something to all agree, you can 307 00:18:44.920 --> 00:18:48.359 say to yourself, well, look, if the Air Force, the CIA, 308 00:18:48.440 --> 00:18:50.480 you know, and the Navy you're telling me the same thing, 309 00:18:50.680 --> 00:18:53.559 it is very likely to be true, you know. But 310 00:18:53.839 --> 00:18:56.160 on the other hand, if they're telling me three different things, 311 00:18:56.279 --> 00:18:59.640 you gentlemen, go back and figure this out, and that 312 00:18:59.680 --> 00:19:02.359 allows them to clarify things as opposed to going in 313 00:19:02.759 --> 00:19:06.920 blind or with false information. And when you mentioned the 314 00:19:06.960 --> 00:19:10.359 missile crisis, this is also during the time when there 315 00:19:10.400 --> 00:19:15.359 are bad estimations about the capabilities and the counts of 316 00:19:15.440 --> 00:19:19.200 weapons that the Soviet Union has and these kind of things. 317 00:19:19.240 --> 00:19:23.519 So there's actually a couple of intelligence failures that we 318 00:19:23.559 --> 00:19:26.119 don't necessarily know about. And indeed, when we look back 319 00:19:26.160 --> 00:19:28.599 at Cuba, there's a couple of things that didn't seem 320 00:19:28.640 --> 00:19:29.599 to be known at the time. 321 00:19:30.079 --> 00:19:34.119 Right, we didn't know where all their atomic weapons were. 322 00:19:34.119 --> 00:19:37.559 As a matter of fact, we never knew up until 323 00:19:37.599 --> 00:19:40.640 decades later, where all their atomic weapons were. 324 00:19:40.640 --> 00:19:44.000 But most importantly, we had no idea. 325 00:19:43.680 --> 00:19:47.240 That they had tactical nukes, and they actually had tactical 326 00:19:47.319 --> 00:19:52.440 nukes deployed around Guantanamo, I mean within a few miles 327 00:19:52.920 --> 00:19:57.839 range was for short range missiles. They had tactical nukes 328 00:19:57.839 --> 00:20:00.279 on the beaches where we would most like them not 329 00:20:00.400 --> 00:20:05.240 know that. And then when some warning came in of that, 330 00:20:05.640 --> 00:20:09.279 and Kennedy literally asked the army, it's sort of like, 331 00:20:10.039 --> 00:20:11.400 why am I just finding out? 332 00:20:11.559 --> 00:20:13.000 Are you guys prepared for this? 333 00:20:13.480 --> 00:20:16.039 And essentially a response to us, well, we're prepared to 334 00:20:16.039 --> 00:20:19.799 take the casualties. And you could see that Kennedy was 335 00:20:19.880 --> 00:20:23.200 just kind of like overwhelmed. It did like, nobody share 336 00:20:23.319 --> 00:20:27.119 this with me. So this is part of the game. 337 00:20:29.079 --> 00:20:34.440 The game in terms of reconciling information among different groups 338 00:20:34.480 --> 00:20:37.759 and making sure he was getting information. I don't think 339 00:20:38.640 --> 00:20:42.440 he didn't really trust any one source. So the thought 340 00:20:42.519 --> 00:20:46.440 that he's talking about breaking up the CIA in a 341 00:20:46.519 --> 00:20:50.920 way is it's too restrictive. You know, he was looking 342 00:20:50.960 --> 00:20:56.319 for mechanisms that would let him crosschecked and countercheck information 343 00:20:56.759 --> 00:20:59.079 from all these sources. He didn't want to do away 344 00:20:59.160 --> 00:21:03.440 with anything except I think we could safely say that 345 00:21:03.519 --> 00:21:07.240 he was amazingly dissatisfied with CIA. 346 00:21:07.480 --> 00:21:09.279 Military operations after the. 347 00:21:09.240 --> 00:21:13.960 Bay of Pigs, right, right, and he did accept responsibility 348 00:21:13.960 --> 00:21:17.039 publicly and all that. And obviously again even though he's 349 00:21:17.079 --> 00:21:20.880 taking Dallas's recommendations and clearly Dallas's you know, and cabal 350 00:21:21.000 --> 00:21:25.359 these guys, they were supposed to know exactly the business 351 00:21:25.359 --> 00:21:28.799 they were in, and yet the whole thing sort of 352 00:21:28.839 --> 00:21:33.759 didn't go right and it was a failure. Okay, So yeah, 353 00:21:33.839 --> 00:21:36.599 resignations come in, and it is suspect later that you know, 354 00:21:36.720 --> 00:21:39.440 of course Duallas has to I mean, but then again, 355 00:21:39.839 --> 00:21:41.720 I kind of couldn't see them putting together the Warren 356 00:21:41.720 --> 00:21:46.680 Commission without a control agent for the CIA on the commission, right, 357 00:21:47.039 --> 00:21:49.839 whether you had a congressman who was friendly or you 358 00:21:49.920 --> 00:21:53.480 had somebody there, there had to be somebody when. 359 00:21:53.279 --> 00:21:55.440 You're talking about this guy that's been to Russia. 360 00:21:56.319 --> 00:22:01.839 Yeah, and you know clearly there's a suspicion of foreign involvement. 361 00:22:02.920 --> 00:22:06.720 It would like be leaving the CIA out entirely would 362 00:22:06.759 --> 00:22:11.000 have been like lead FBI out entirely. That just wouldn't 363 00:22:11.039 --> 00:22:14.880 make much sense, right, even if you expect they're going 364 00:22:14.960 --> 00:22:17.920 to tell you what you know, you have to perform 365 00:22:18.039 --> 00:22:20.480 us say, all right, we had some of the advising 366 00:22:20.599 --> 00:22:24.519 us on possible ossible connections to foreign powers. 367 00:22:24.640 --> 00:22:26.519 You know, you had to have that right. 368 00:22:26.559 --> 00:22:28.400 And the other thing is, I mean, the guys out 369 00:22:28.400 --> 00:22:31.160 there publicly advocating for you know, the Fair Play for 370 00:22:31.240 --> 00:22:34.440 Cuba Committee, even though he doesn't have an official membership. 371 00:22:34.960 --> 00:22:37.960 I mean, the whole thing looks pretty bad if you 372 00:22:38.000 --> 00:22:41.440 don't have somebody who's read in on this kind of 373 00:22:41.480 --> 00:22:45.759 stuff there to figure it out, because I mean, that's 374 00:22:45.880 --> 00:22:49.000 just a I don't even know how to describe it. 375 00:22:49.039 --> 00:22:51.759 But believe me, you need somebody there to control that 376 00:22:51.839 --> 00:22:56.359 information one way or another, and not necessarily for nefarious purposes. However, 377 00:22:56.440 --> 00:22:58.599 I do always find it suspect that Dulls is on 378 00:22:58.680 --> 00:23:03.839 the Commission and so, but anyway, it doesn't mean though that. 379 00:23:03.720 --> 00:23:07.079 I would actually I don't find it as suspicious that 380 00:23:07.200 --> 00:23:08.680 Dallas is on the Commission. 381 00:23:08.680 --> 00:23:08.839 Oh. 382 00:23:08.880 --> 00:23:11.599 I find Dallas suspicious and what he did on the Commission, 383 00:23:11.599 --> 00:23:15.599 But in terms of why he's there, it's really suspicious. 384 00:23:15.720 --> 00:23:21.559 Is why Angleton is the liaison for the CIA. 385 00:23:21.720 --> 00:23:26.920 You know, It's like Dulles makes sense, but Angleton just 386 00:23:26.920 --> 00:23:31.000 just like literally shouts, hey, there's something here that we 387 00:23:31.359 --> 00:23:32.599 might need to cover up. 388 00:23:33.480 --> 00:23:35.480 Well there, you know, what that's a better way to 389 00:23:35.519 --> 00:23:38.039 look at it. You're right, it's not necessarily the fact 390 00:23:38.079 --> 00:23:40.039 that he's there. Him being there kind of makes sense 391 00:23:40.039 --> 00:23:43.799 if they have to interpret something strange, you know. And 392 00:23:44.400 --> 00:23:46.559 does the you know, chief Justice of the Supreme Court 393 00:23:46.599 --> 00:23:48.880 know how to deal with this, probably not. You know, 394 00:23:49.160 --> 00:23:51.440 does the congressman from Michigan know how to deal with it? 395 00:23:51.480 --> 00:23:56.920 Probably not, you know. So, okay, okay, you're right, You're right. 396 00:23:56.960 --> 00:23:59.240 It's more like the activity is suspicious. The way he 397 00:23:59.240 --> 00:24:02.160 cuts off questions and things like that is a little weird, 398 00:24:02.720 --> 00:24:05.799 all right, especially when you're talking about people that he 399 00:24:05.799 --> 00:24:08.839 should have had no real involvement with in any way, 400 00:24:08.880 --> 00:24:11.759 shape or form. Sometimes he's even seeming to direct questioning 401 00:24:12.319 --> 00:24:14.640