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<v Speaker 1>You know, if you've listened to the show this week

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<v Speaker 1>and before I went out for my little adventure and surgery,

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<v Speaker 1>you heard me talking about a ridiculous and I mean

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<v Speaker 1>ridiculous kerfuffle that was created by the Denver Post. The

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<v Speaker 1>Denver Post, for reasons which no one is actually clear about,

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<v Speaker 1>decided that they were going to get to the bottom

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<v Speaker 1>of a social media account called at Do Better Denver.

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<v Speaker 1>And what they do is they post videos of the

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<v Speaker 1>reality of Denver, and obviously that has made them very

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<v Speaker 1>unpopular to the politicians running around city hall screaming everything

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<v Speaker 1>is awesome. So the Denver Posts set about finding out

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<v Speaker 1>who was behind at Do Better Denver and through a

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<v Speaker 1>CORE request about core request, settled on three people as

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<v Speaker 1>being the masterminds behind this social media account. The problem

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<v Speaker 1>is they are not the masterminds. They were merely contributors

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<v Speaker 1>who either sent video or did a cor request and

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<v Speaker 1>then forwarded that on to the master mind behind that

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<v Speaker 1>do Better Denver, who still shall remain nameless because the

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<v Speaker 1>Denver Post was unable to figure out who it was,

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<v Speaker 1>which I think is hilarious. By the way, nothing says

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<v Speaker 1>crack investigative skills more than that.

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<v Speaker 2>But that's neither here nor there.

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<v Speaker 1>Joining me today is one of the women that was

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<v Speaker 1>outed in this article as being behind or a contributor

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<v Speaker 1>to at Do Better Denver.

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<v Speaker 2>Jill Osa, Welcome to the show.

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<v Speaker 3>Heymany Thanks so much for having me on today.

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<v Speaker 1>So you and I have spoken pretty extensively about this,

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<v Speaker 1>and as a non media person, what happened to you

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<v Speaker 1>had to feel very shocking, but as a media person,

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<v Speaker 1>I was surprised by none of it. So I want

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<v Speaker 1>to kind of start at the beginning and let's go

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<v Speaker 1>to the reasons behind your participation in any way, shape

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<v Speaker 1>or form with that Do Better Denver. How did that

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<v Speaker 1>all transpire? How did that come about?

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, thanks so much for letting me get my story

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<v Speaker 4>out there and my why behind it. In August twenty

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<v Speaker 4>twenty three, I received a text message from my tenant

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<v Speaker 4>at the time letting me know that Mike Johnston, who

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<v Speaker 4>I didn't even know who that was at that point,

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<v Speaker 4>didn't know that he was the mayor of Denver, was

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<v Speaker 4>starting a new initiative called the House one thousand Initiative,

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<v Speaker 4>and his goal was to help house one thousand people

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<v Speaker 4>who were experiencing homelessness by the end of twenty twenty three,

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<v Speaker 4>and the message went on to say one of those

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<v Speaker 4>sites where they are going to be housed would be

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<v Speaker 4>the property that shared a single that shared a fence

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<v Speaker 4>line with my single family rental.

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<v Speaker 3>Home in Denver. And you can.

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<v Speaker 4>Imagine how shocked I was to find this out. So

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<v Speaker 4>I started digging, doing a little research.

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<v Speaker 3>Is this legal?

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<v Speaker 4>What is zoning entail for this? And it was still

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<v Speaker 4>unclear to me. So my husband and I and our

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<v Speaker 4>kids flew to Denver and we were there for a

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<v Speaker 4>number of weeks, going to the town halls about the

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<v Speaker 4>micro communities and the shelters and trying to meet with

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<v Speaker 4>Mayor Johnston and his administration. But we were met with

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<v Speaker 4>gaslighting and deceit, and we were not getting the answers

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<v Speaker 4>that we were getting, And so I turned to Colora,

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<v Speaker 4>Colorado Open Records Requests to try to understand how these

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<v Speaker 4>sites were chosen, why the ones that went out ended

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<v Speaker 4>up being the final list, and just the zoning details

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<v Speaker 4>behind it.

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<v Speaker 3>And through that I believe.

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<v Speaker 4>Over the last two years, I've submitted about fifty core

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<v Speaker 4>requests in total, and twelve of those requests I forwarded

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<v Speaker 4>on to do better Denver and other news outlets because

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<v Speaker 4>they contained information that I thought was important and that

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<v Speaker 4>the community deserve to know about.

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<v Speaker 2>So let me ask you one question.

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<v Speaker 1>Because you've got a rental property in Denver, but everybody's like,

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<v Speaker 1>you don't even live.

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<v Speaker 2>Here, why do you care?

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<v Speaker 1>But you were, actually you that house used to be

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<v Speaker 1>your house, right, I mean that you lived in.

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<v Speaker 3>Correct, and I was.

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<v Speaker 4>My husband and I were both born and raised in

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<v Speaker 4>Colorado in the suburbs, and after college, purchased a home

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<v Speaker 4>in Denver lived there until I married my husband, at

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<v Speaker 4>which point we moved away. But Colorado is still home

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<v Speaker 4>to me. If you ask me where home is, that's

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<v Speaker 4>my answer. And we hope to get back there someday.

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<v Speaker 3>And so it was, it's been.

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<v Speaker 4>Heartbreaking to see what has happened to Denver and to

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<v Speaker 4>the place that we do call home.

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<v Speaker 1>So what happened to the information that you forwarded? You

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<v Speaker 1>forded to do Better Denver and you forwarded to other

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<v Speaker 1>news outlets.

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<v Speaker 2>What happened?

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<v Speaker 4>Some of those requests were posted on to Better Denver's

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<v Speaker 4>Instagram page and possibly your Twitter page.

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<v Speaker 3>Quite honestly, I don't do Twitter.

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<v Speaker 4>I only logged into my Twitter to post my public statement.

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<v Speaker 3>But other than that Twitter's not my thing.

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<v Speaker 4>And to my knowledge, many of the premise reports, which

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<v Speaker 4>are nine to one to one call logs that I

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<v Speaker 4>pulled of the very shelters and permanent supportive housing locations

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<v Speaker 4>in micro commun unities in Denver were shared pretty publicly,

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<v Speaker 4>which I can't claim full credit for this, but Brian

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<v Speaker 4>Moss actually ended up doing a story on the call

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<v Speaker 4>logues to the shelters and the micro communities, and so yeah,

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<v Speaker 4>they were posted on Do Better Denver. It's unclear if

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<v Speaker 4>they one hundred percent contributed to news stories or if

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<v Speaker 4>they pulled their own premise reports to have.

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<v Speaker 3>More to date information.

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<v Speaker 4>Right, this story was about a month and a half

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<v Speaker 4>after I pulled all the premise reports and they went

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<v Speaker 4>out to a bunch of people.

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<v Speaker 2>It's it's hard.

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<v Speaker 1>It's hard to deny the impact that Do Better Denver

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<v Speaker 1>has had. I mean, I know I have shared stories

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<v Speaker 1>that I saw there first, So I do think it

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<v Speaker 1>is within the possibility of reason that you're doing that

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<v Speaker 1>and it being published on do Better Denver, and I

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<v Speaker 1>actually shared some of those callogues on my blog at

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<v Speaker 1>one point. I do think that that kind of stuff

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<v Speaker 1>does inspire investigative journalism. By some of the better journalists

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<v Speaker 1>in the area. So that's why I think Do Better

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<v Speaker 1>Denver is important. So you got caught up in this

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<v Speaker 1>and you are, you know, minding your own beeswax, and

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<v Speaker 1>all of a sudden you get a phone call. Tell

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<v Speaker 1>me about that phone call with a reporter from the

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<v Speaker 1>Denver Post.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so last can you hold Jill? I got to

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<v Speaker 2>take a break.

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<v Speaker 1>I just realized what time it is that we're in

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<v Speaker 1>the third hour, So hold on, Can you hold on

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<v Speaker 1>through a break for me? Okay, hang on, We'll be

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<v Speaker 1>right back with Jill Osa for the other side of

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<v Speaker 1>the Denver Post expose story. We're doing that next. Jill

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<v Speaker 1>Osa one of the women that was quote outed by

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<v Speaker 1>the Denver Post in They're incredibly whitey but they're a

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<v Speaker 1>journalist article about the origins of a social media account

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<v Speaker 1>called at do Better Denver. Jill, I want to know

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<v Speaker 1>what that conversation went like when the reporter calls you

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<v Speaker 1>and says, hey, we.

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<v Speaker 2>Know it's you or whatever. How did that all pan out?

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, So about two weeks ago, Shelly Bradbury called me

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<v Speaker 4>on my cell phone and once she called, the doorbell

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<v Speaker 4>actually rang, and I had a contractor showing up at

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<v Speaker 4>my house, and so I said.

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<v Speaker 3>Can I call you back?

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<v Speaker 4>And she said, I'm I'm this is in reference to

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<v Speaker 4>do Better Denver in the account and just.

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<v Speaker 3>So you know, I'm running this story regardless.

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<v Speaker 4>And I said, okay, I'll call you back because I

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<v Speaker 4>wanted to know why I'm not do Better Denver and

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<v Speaker 4>didn't know why my name would be associated with her

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<v Speaker 4>story about do Better Denver And so fast forward an hour.

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<v Speaker 4>I call her back and asked her what her article

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<v Speaker 4>was about. She said, I'm writing about who do Better

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<v Speaker 4>Denver Is? And I started questioning, what do you mean

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<v Speaker 4>You're writing about who do Better?

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<v Speaker 3>Denver Is? Like, I'm not do Better.

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<v Speaker 4>Denver, So I don't really understand what you're going to

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<v Speaker 4>be writing. So what is your piece about? And she said,

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<v Speaker 4>I told you it's about who do Better Denver is?

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<v Speaker 1>You so tell you like you were in a circular conversation,

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<v Speaker 1>like you kept saying I'm not doing Better And she's like,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm writing about who do Vetter Denver Is and you're

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<v Speaker 1>in the article. I mean, did it just stop stop

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<v Speaker 1>making sense right away?

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah?

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<v Speaker 3>It didn't make sense from the get go.

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<v Speaker 4>I think when she called me there was a narrative

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<v Speaker 4>that she wanted to have in her piece and write about,

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<v Speaker 4>and it didn't really matter what I said.

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<v Speaker 3>To try and tell her otherwise.

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<v Speaker 4>So she began asking me questions about the core requests

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<v Speaker 4>that I conducted, and why in the do Better Denver

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<v Speaker 4>posts it said we or we obtained core request records?

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<v Speaker 4>And I said, because do Better Denver always talks in

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<v Speaker 4>a collective weed because the account is crowdsourced information. And

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<v Speaker 4>so I said, there's one administrator. I don't know who

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<v Speaker 4>she is. I couldn't pick her out of a lineup.

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<v Speaker 4>She's never given me her name, and I'm thankful for

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<v Speaker 4>that because of situations like that. And if that person

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<v Speaker 4>chooses to remain.

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<v Speaker 3>Anonymous, that is their right.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, And so she just kept coming back to well,

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<v Speaker 4>why does it say we, why.

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<v Speaker 3>Does it say administrators?

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<v Speaker 4>And I said, you're going to have to ask the

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<v Speaker 4>actual person that those are questions I can't answer for

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<v Speaker 4>you because I don't write any of the content. I

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<v Speaker 4>merely forwarded on some core requests that I thought were interesting,

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<v Speaker 4>and she chose to publish them. I never thought I

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<v Speaker 4>would hide behind a CORP request. I never thought my.

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<v Speaker 3>Name was secret. They're open records, and so.

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<v Speaker 4>You know, with that comes my name being potentially public

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<v Speaker 4>from it.

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<v Speaker 3>But I never ever worried.

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<v Speaker 4>About that because I'm not the account holder and I

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<v Speaker 4>don't write the content for the account, and I have

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<v Speaker 4>never had any privileges on the account.

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<v Speaker 1>You you have some core requests in an ex post

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<v Speaker 1>that I shared on my blog today. Why did you

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<v Speaker 1>feel it was important to share the stuff that you

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<v Speaker 1>shared on that post?

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<v Speaker 3>Was that the one relating to Denver and your dining room?

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<v Speaker 2>Yes?

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<v Speaker 3>Okay, so that was actually the first poor.

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<v Speaker 4>Request that I shared with do better Denver. I did

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<v Speaker 4>that on my own because my community was fighting against

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<v Speaker 4>the yo micro community, and so when the Yale micro

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<v Speaker 4>community was taken off the table, and even before it

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<v Speaker 4>was taken off the table, I felt that it was

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<v Speaker 4>important to work with the other individuals across the city

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<v Speaker 4>who were faced with the vaccame thing that I was

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<v Speaker 4>and share the information that I had and also helped

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<v Speaker 4>them fight against what was happening in their neighborhood. And

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<v Speaker 4>so one particular neighborhood, it was the Birch neighborhood, which

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<v Speaker 4>is in Virginia Village.

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<v Speaker 3>They were also set.

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<v Speaker 4>To have a micro community in their neighborhood backing up

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<v Speaker 4>to single family homes, which I felt was entirely inappropriate,

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<v Speaker 4>because essentially, we're moving the problems that we see in

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<v Speaker 4>encampments into these tiny home communities or into shelters. And

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<v Speaker 4>I absolutely believe that something needed to be done in Denver.

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<v Speaker 4>I just didn't think that this was the appropriate answer

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<v Speaker 4>to that, right. And I don't know that I have

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<v Speaker 4>the answer, but I just knew that this wasn't what

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<v Speaker 4>I thought was appropriate. And so the core requests that

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<v Speaker 4>you shared and saw Mandy, and which had also been

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<v Speaker 4>shared by do Better Denver, was about an initiative that

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<v Speaker 4>the mayor's office decided to call Denver in your dining room.

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<v Speaker 4>And that was a group of people, many of which

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<v Speaker 4>you didn't live near each of the sites, that they

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<v Speaker 4>were going to bring together in somebody's dining room. And

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<v Speaker 4>I don't know if their objective was to try to

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<v Speaker 4>convince the people near the.

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<v Speaker 3>Site that it was a good idea or what their

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<v Speaker 3>plan was there, but they tried to frame it in a.

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<v Speaker 4>Way of, oh, you get a meet with other people

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<v Speaker 4>in the mayor's office in this exclusive event, right, And

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<v Speaker 4>to me, that's not appropriate if you're a mayre of

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<v Speaker 4>transparency and honesty.

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<v Speaker 3>All of these conversations should be out in the open.

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<v Speaker 4>They shouldn't be happening in somebody's dining room with people

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<v Speaker 4>who don't live that close to the site, with people

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<v Speaker 4>like the director of Saint Francis being invited and a

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<v Speaker 4>professor from CU Boulder who doesn't even live in Denver.

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<v Speaker 4>It just wasn't appropriate, and so I shared it and

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<v Speaker 4>they didn't bec see the invite list.

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<v Speaker 3>The Mayor's office didn't. That's fair game to in most

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<v Speaker 3>people's email.

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<v Speaker 2>So Jim, let me let me. We're almost out of time.

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<v Speaker 2>I want to ask you two questions.

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<v Speaker 1>The first is how much of your conversation with Shelley

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<v Speaker 1>Bradbury was actually accurately represented in that news story?

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<v Speaker 3>Great question.

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<v Speaker 4>I would say the majority of the conversation was not

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<v Speaker 4>represented in that news story. I gave her my why,

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<v Speaker 4>which was related to the micro community site by our

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<v Speaker 4>rental house. She did not share a single word of

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<v Speaker 4>that in there. I also asked Shelley not to share

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<v Speaker 4>our business information, which she made very clear to me,

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<v Speaker 4>and the phone call that she knew how much we

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<v Speaker 4>bought our house score and all those details that she did.

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<v Speaker 4>In her article, she misconstrued my words and said I

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<v Speaker 4>do research and made it sound like I do research

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<v Speaker 4>for the count Really, I said I do.

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<v Speaker 3>I do research because I like doing research. It's fun.

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<v Speaker 4>It's really important that we learn this stuff ourselves and

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<v Speaker 4>not just rely on what we hear in the media,

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<v Speaker 4>and so she made it sound like I'm the researcher

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<v Speaker 4>for y I'm.

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<v Speaker 2>Not shocked by any of this, Jill.

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<v Speaker 1>I you know, I do think that the Mayor's office

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<v Speaker 1>has its fingerprints all over this story, and I hope

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<v Speaker 1>that us continuing to talk about it and have these

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<v Speaker 1>conversations makes them more reluctant to try and do it again,

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<v Speaker 1>because it's just becoming really patently obvious that do Better

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<v Speaker 1>Denvers over the target and doing a great job in

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<v Speaker 1>really exposing the things that the Mayor's office would rather

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<v Speaker 1>us not know about and not talk about and not see.

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<v Speaker 1>So I, for one, I have your back, Chill, I

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<v Speaker 1>have do Better Denvers back. We are all do Better Denver,

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<v Speaker 1>and I hope that the website can do or I

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<v Speaker 1>hope this social media account continues to do exactly what

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<v Speaker 1>it's doing, because we cannot fix what we do not name,

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<v Speaker 1>and that's all we're doing here.

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<v Speaker 2>Jill, I appreciate your time today, Thanks so much.

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<v Speaker 3>Mandy