Speaker 1: Okay, we are alive. How this is William Ramsey. Welcome
Speaker 1: to William Ramsey Investigates. On today's show. I have a
Speaker 1: very special guest of returning guest. We spoke back in
Speaker 1: September of twenty twenty two about a book I was
Speaker 1: interested in, and the full title of the book we
Speaker 1: talked about two years ago is It's Not about the sex.
Speaker 1: True stories of human trafficking from a law enforcement officer,
Speaker 1: a survivor, a brothel madam, and an advocate. And the
Speaker 1: book has become even more timely now. We were just
Speaker 1: kind of chatting in the pre show about so much
Speaker 1: as in the news, and like I was mentioning to
Speaker 1: him some of my recent experiences I had staying at
Speaker 1: a hotel and also just hearing other stories. I think
Speaker 1: it's the head of the DHS as a homan or
Speaker 1: something that's going to be a new guy. Like all
Speaker 1: of these places where they're builders are building new apartments
Speaker 1: or something like that, they have kind of their own
Speaker 1: sex workers attached to these projects and things like that,
Speaker 1: and that's just the tip of the iceberg. And it's
Speaker 1: incredible that you pay taxes to have your government kind
Speaker 1: of bungle these things, but that's not what we're gonna
Speaker 1: We're gonna kind of mention that today. But the reason
Speaker 1: for this interview is that John D. Girolamo has has
Speaker 1: published a new book. And if you're watching this on
Speaker 1: x rockfin or Rumble, the full title of this book
Speaker 1: is It's Not about the d E V I L
Speaker 1: Devil spelled a little differently, it's not about the devil
Speaker 1: or not about the Evil. Subtitle is true Stories about
Speaker 1: fighting evil in the modern world. A police officer battles
Speaker 1: online predators, abortion doctor transforms into your pro life advocate,
Speaker 1: and the extorcist team confronts diabolic forces. So it's broken
Speaker 1: into three parts. And I was just kind of reading
Speaker 1: through his website, which is it is not about dot com.
Speaker 1: So it's all the words it's not it's it's I
Speaker 1: T I S N O T A B O U
Speaker 1: T dot com. So he's an author speaker. He has
Speaker 1: two other books. One is It's Not About the Badge,
Speaker 1: Real Cops, Real Stories join their Journey, and the other
Speaker 1: one is It's Not About the Predator Parents Guide to
Speaker 1: Internet and Social Media Safety, which is very important these days.
Speaker 1: I just hear so many stories, just even recent stories
Speaker 1: through pau person online. Somebody told crazy stuff and then
Speaker 1: you know, these horrible events occurs. So there's a lot
Speaker 1: of that. It ties into this book. It's not about
Speaker 1: the devils. So John di Jirolama, welcome back to the show.
Speaker 2: Hey, thanks for having me. Really appreciate to be back.
Speaker 1: Excellent. So for people we haven't talked in a couple
Speaker 1: of years, maybe you can just for people who haven't
Speaker 1: heard our earlier interview, maybe you could just do an
Speaker 1: overview of your career. I have some of the stuff
Speaker 1: that you had at the back of the book about
Speaker 1: the book and that you're a member of the Christian
Speaker 1: Author's Network Christian Indie Publishing Association also speaker. Like I said,
Speaker 1: maybe you can just do an overview of your background
Speaker 1: and what led up to writing this new book.
Speaker 2: It's not about the double so you know I wrote
Speaker 2: the first book. It's not about the badge featuring police
Speaker 2: officers during the kind of the George Floyd twenty twenty
Speaker 2: type of era where I really I didn't feel like
Speaker 2: police officers were given a voice, and I wanted to
Speaker 2: do that, and so I wanted to get the human side.
Speaker 2: Who's that person behind the badge? And one of the
Speaker 2: guys I was interviewing would ask easy questions at the end,
Speaker 2: you know, what's your favorite song, what would you do
Speaker 2: if you want the lottery? And he just sort of
Speaker 2: stopped stone cold and said, I'd quit my job and
Speaker 2: hunt down human traffickers. And I was kind of stunned
Speaker 2: by this response, And at that moment, I knew that
Speaker 2: I had my next book, and more importantly, I didn't
Speaker 2: know anything about human trafficking. So it's sort of set
Speaker 2: me down this path to find out more and tell
Speaker 2: the stories of real people from different perspectives. And as
Speaker 2: you mentioned, there's kind of four different ways, you know,
Speaker 2: to kind of look at that issue and just the
Speaker 2: terrible atrocity that we have. And for me, you know,
Speaker 2: human trafficking is one of the most evil things that
Speaker 2: somebody can do to another person. And I started speaking
Speaker 2: about it and I was getting questions, and I realized
Speaker 2: that the online portion of human trafficking was growing. But
Speaker 2: also predators online are looking for a bunch of other
Speaker 2: stuff besides human trafficking. You know, they may want to meet,
Speaker 2: they may want to export your child, or they might
Speaker 2: want more content. And so so then I put together
Speaker 2: this I would just say common sense, you know, fifty
Speaker 2: plus page book that that kind of just gives parents
Speaker 2: an idea of what's going on. And that led me
Speaker 2: to my latest book, which was, well, Who's the Ultimate Predator?
Speaker 2: It's really Satan and the Devil's real and a lot
Speaker 2: of secular society wants to discount that. They don't want
Speaker 2: to believe that, And I wanted to feature three people
Speaker 2: who are fighting evil in their own unique way, and
Speaker 2: that's what I came up with. So so I think
Speaker 2: it's some some pretty interesting stories about this modern evil
Speaker 2: that we're seeing, right.
Speaker 1: And there's a lot of it out there. There's a
Speaker 1: lot of different things. A lot of things are happening online.
Speaker 1: Now that everybody is online, it's become a way for
Speaker 1: good things to happen, Like you and I can talk
Speaker 1: and cheer information and cheer books. But there's also a
Speaker 1: darker side, right, a darker side to the web.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and kids are getting online earlier and earlier than
Speaker 2: ever before. You know, it's not just high schoolers. You know,
Speaker 2: how many times have you seen a three or four
Speaker 2: year old playing with some iPad or their parents phone
Speaker 2: or something like that, And so they have no idea
Speaker 2: how to navigate the online world. I mean, you wouldn't
Speaker 2: let your eleven year old wantunder the mall by him
Speaker 2: or herself, So why would you let that child wander
Speaker 2: the internet when there's a lot more danger out there
Speaker 2: right right?
Speaker 1: And there's a lot of danger, a lot of catfishing,
Speaker 1: a lot of fake names, a lot of fronts, a
Speaker 1: lot of strange things like I followed the seven to
Speaker 1: six four group really dark satanic, like super dark, spiritual evil.
Speaker 1: But they get people on very benign sites. So your
Speaker 1: kids could even be on Roadblocks, right, and that they
Speaker 1: strike up a conversation there. So there's a lot of
Speaker 1: places that you may think that are safe but aren't.
Speaker 2: Well yeah, and that's one of the big myths for
Speaker 2: parents is you know, ABC Males, Roadblocks, places like that
Speaker 2: that might be age appropriate doesn't mean child safe. And
Speaker 2: so programs like Roadblocks have cat features and they advertise
Speaker 2: chat play with you know, people from all over the world. World. Well,
Speaker 2: where do you think the predators are hanging out? Right?
Speaker 2: They're going to where the kids are, And so an
Speaker 2: unsuspecting parent may may find that their kid is being
Speaker 2: chatted up by a predator from who knows where, right.
Speaker 1: And it could be anywhere. I mean, and you kind
Speaker 1: of on your first section of this book, you just
Speaker 1: show that some of these people can just be your
Speaker 1: average guy, you know, down the street, right, the average
Speaker 1: benign looking guy down the street.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's it's really hard to tell just by
Speaker 2: looking at somebody, you know, it's it's I mean, yes,
Speaker 2: there's definitely the you know, the pedophiles that are you know,
Speaker 2: never leave the house in their parents' basement, you know,
Speaker 2: all day. But many times they're functioning members of society.
Speaker 2: They have jobs, they are married, many times may have
Speaker 2: kids themselves, and so you just can't really look at it.
Speaker 2: And you could see headline after headline of somebody who
Speaker 2: seems like a normal member of society, and yet they
Speaker 2: might be collecting, you know, child pornography pictures, they may
Speaker 2: be trying to meet somebody. And the police officers that
Speaker 2: I interviewed and the one featured in this book, you know,
Speaker 2: they arrested somebody who was exactly that just looked like
Speaker 2: a very normal member of society.
Speaker 1: Right, So these guys could be anything, but there's usually
Speaker 1: a long it gets worse than wors. So there's like
Speaker 1: a grooming process. So back in the day before the internet,
Speaker 1: the grooming process when in person, but this takes place online, right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. And what they're going to do is they're
Speaker 2: just going to, you know, throw as many darts and
Speaker 2: see what sticks. Because somebody who reacts to an online
Speaker 2: inquiry or a friend, work press, something like that, that's
Speaker 2: who they're going to zoom in on. And you know,
Speaker 2: the kids today, they've grown up on the internet, grown
Speaker 2: up on it, and they view a friend online as
Speaker 2: the equivalent of a friend that they might have in
Speaker 2: their in their class, you know, somebody that they see
Speaker 2: in person every day, they see that as the equivalent.
Speaker 2: And that's not you know, our generation, we know that
Speaker 2: there's a difference between an online person that you've never
Speaker 2: met and somebody who you see every day. But today's team,
Speaker 2: they they kind of see that as a bit of
Speaker 2: a blurry line. And if you if you talk to
Speaker 2: teens and different surveys that I've seen, you know, it's
Speaker 2: a high number that have met somebody who's a stranger
Speaker 2: online in person, or have chatted with that person, sent
Speaker 2: pictures things like that. It's a really high percentage that
Speaker 2: should really terrify every parent.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's much more common dating takes place online
Speaker 1: now out for younger people meeting people all that stuff.
Speaker 1: Like you said, so, who do you know if this
Speaker 1: person is real? I know people who've gone out to
Speaker 1: meet these people in howdy they say they are or
Speaker 1: they have fake you know, pictures or things like that,
Speaker 1: So it's really dicey. And then you throw in, you know,
Speaker 1: a thirteen fourteen year old child on roadblocks, and some
Speaker 1: of these are really bad, Like, it gets very very dark,
Speaker 1: and there's a lot of what it can be. You
Speaker 1: can be blackmailed, and it leads to some of these
Speaker 1: kids doing you know, hurting themselves and all kinds of stuff.
Speaker 1: And then there's like a what a lot of people
Speaker 1: don't know what you mentioned in your book is there's
Speaker 1: like squads of online pedophiles competing against each other, which
Speaker 1: is really sick.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and what most parents don't realize is it can
Speaker 2: happen really really fast. So and I talked to multiple
Speaker 2: police officers about this. So, for example, one of the
Speaker 2: ways that they will target boys, which sometimes surprises a parent.
Speaker 2: They think they're just after females, but that's really not true.
Speaker 2: So what someone will do is they'll create, typically a
Speaker 2: fake profile of a a good looking college age girl.
Speaker 2: This person will send a friend request to a teenage
Speaker 2: boy and chat that person up. And the next thing,
Speaker 2: you know, this good looking, you know, college age girl
Speaker 2: is sending explicit pictures. It's probably a freak profile. They
Speaker 2: probably downloaded this from a pornography site. But they sent
Speaker 2: us to this team to get his attention and have said, look,
Speaker 2: I've shown you, now you show me. And so that
Speaker 2: team is then pressured into sending a picture explicit picture
Speaker 2: of himself. He does, and then immediately that person can
Speaker 2: extort for money and if they pay, they will meet
Speaker 2: ask for money once again. And if they don't pay,
Speaker 2: if they're seeing what you know, social network that you're in,
Speaker 2: they will absolutely follow through with the threat of exposing
Speaker 2: this picture to you know, to that social network, making
Speaker 2: it come. And what the police officers have told me
Speaker 2: is that scenario I just described twenty four hours can
Speaker 2: happen twenty four hours. So the parent might think, hey,
Speaker 2: yesterday their kid was fine. Today, their moody, disturb upset, stress,
Speaker 2: they have no idea what happened, and yet it could
Speaker 2: be so fast that the parents really have to have
Speaker 2: that awkward conversation with their teens and say this is real,
Speaker 2: this can happen, and if it does, if you get caught,
Speaker 2: if you make a mistake, please come to me the parent.
Speaker 2: Don't think that you're in it alone. But so many teams,
Speaker 2: you know, they don't talk to their parents, or maybe
Speaker 2: they're not supervised, maybe they come from a difficult household.
Speaker 2: And now this team is feeling very isolated and lonely,
Speaker 2: and as you mentioned, there's gonna be a lot of
Speaker 2: self harm associated with this because the teen doesn't know
Speaker 2: what to.
Speaker 1: Do and leading to suicide. I mean, it's a terrible thing.
Speaker 1: It can happen, So yeah, very.
Speaker 2: Serious, absolutely, it's it's really it's really tragic and evil
Speaker 2: what these predators are doing to get, you know, a
Speaker 2: few hundred bucks out of a team.
Speaker 1: And there's people online. There was a guy busted in Texas.
Speaker 1: He was a teenager and his life was grooming and
Speaker 1: abusing other children online. He literally spent ten hours a
Speaker 1: day doing it on these on these what on these sites,
Speaker 1: Like I've done other shows on this, he's on Roadblocks
Speaker 1: and Fortnite and other things like that that are very
Speaker 1: inocuous or tain. I guess you wouldn't think anything's going on.
Speaker 1: But then he says, come here, I've got a discord
Speaker 1: channel or I've got some other channel or telegram, and
Speaker 1: then it gets worse and worse and worse, just like
Speaker 1: you said in these like you said, it's what happens
Speaker 1: to boys too. A lot of them are women and
Speaker 1: they just get led down and it's almost like how
Speaker 1: much can they get away with?
Speaker 2: So, yeah, the disturbing the disturbing trend is when you've
Speaker 2: got really a child on child type of situation. It's
Speaker 2: you know, they're definitely the adult pedophiles out there, But
Speaker 2: the disturbing trend you talk to counselor psychologists, et cetera,
Speaker 2: is it's the teenager on a younger child.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's pretty bad, and now it's going to get
Speaker 1: more sophisticated. Chuck in the chat says they've been faking
Speaker 1: profiles even more with AI audio video or pick. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so throwing some AI in there. Wow, So people really
Speaker 1: need to be careful. Really do they really need to
Speaker 1: keep an eye on their kids and what they're up
Speaker 1: to and who they're talking to. And also, Tom think,
Speaker 1: don't you think it's information or telling them the risks
Speaker 1: online are important.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you really have to talk to your child about
Speaker 2: what they're doing online and who are they talking to,
Speaker 2: and letting them know that there's dangers, there's risks and
Speaker 2: if they do run into trouble to come and come
Speaker 2: and talk to the parent. And it starts early, you know,
Speaker 2: if you you know, talk to a lot of different experts.
Speaker 2: They're telling you to have to start the conversation at
Speaker 2: around age seven, because not only are a lot of
Speaker 2: seven year olds online, a lot of these kids have
Speaker 2: you know, Chrome books at school, and the schools will
Speaker 2: tell you they're safe. I've talked to people who will
Speaker 2: tell you that's absolutely not safe. But the other risk
Speaker 2: that parents don't realize is, hey, maybe you're really controlling
Speaker 2: what your child is looking at because they're only seven
Speaker 2: or ten. But then they go over a friend's house
Speaker 2: and who knows what they're seeing over there, And there's
Speaker 2: plenty of stories out there about his being exposed to
Speaker 2: all kinds of things, including pornography through just hanging out. Spreads.
Speaker 1: Right, No, it's incredible and I think it's good. Like
Speaker 1: a lot of these states are starting to have sign
Speaker 1: ins checking age for pornography things like that, which I
Speaker 1: think is a good change. I'm surprised they did it
Speaker 1: with some of these legislation wasn't there in the past,
Speaker 1: but I guess they're catching up. But the public has
Speaker 1: to figure out, like be very careful. There really are
Speaker 1: a lot of pregators out.
Speaker 2: There and horrible.
Speaker 1: Stories like but that's not the only the kind of
Speaker 1: the content. You also cover kind of the perils of
Speaker 1: kind of you know, people who have had abortions and
Speaker 1: then become pro life, and also exorcism, right, can you
Speaker 1: talk a little bit about.
Speaker 2: That, Yeah, sure, so. So the other two stories are
Speaker 2: you know, real people individuals that that I interviewed, got testimony,
Speaker 2: looked at case files. One of them was an abortion
Speaker 2: doctor who has a has a story of how she
Speaker 2: transformed into a pro life advocate. It's it's a very
Speaker 2: compelling story that's decades long in the making for her
Speaker 2: and and how she really it parallels how she came
Speaker 2: back to the church and it's a it's it's it's
Speaker 2: a very christ centered story of how her relationship with
Speaker 2: God really helped her realize not only what she was
Speaker 2: doing was wrong, but to speak up about it because
Speaker 2: her personality was not to engage in conflict. And yet
Speaker 2: now decades later, this person has testified in front of
Speaker 2: a state legislature about abortion laws things like that, and
Speaker 2: it and it just you know, goes through that transformation
Speaker 2: where you know that that person had a miscarriage, you
Speaker 2: had to do abortion recovery, met people along the way
Speaker 2: who had similar stories. So I think it's really going
Speaker 2: to resonate with the readers to see you know, gaining
Speaker 2: strength through this transformational journey.
Speaker 1: Right, And it's in the news like this was a
Speaker 1: huge issue like women's rights and things like that in
Speaker 1: this last election twenty twenty four. So it's kind of
Speaker 1: like a more thoughtful inquiry than something is shrill where
Speaker 1: they're going to kind of take away your rights or whatever.
Speaker 1: You know, it's going to be the handmaiden's tail or
Speaker 1: something like that. Like it seems like that.
Speaker 2: And that's the environment that you know, doctor Wheeler has
Speaker 2: had to live it, right, is this you know, out
Speaker 2: and be proud about your abortion. And her journey was
Speaker 2: really seeing the value of human life and in returning
Speaker 2: to the church and really you know, coming to the
Speaker 2: conclusion that supporting women through unplanned pregnancies. That's how you
Speaker 2: help women, It isn't, you know, pushing them towards an abortion.
Speaker 2: And it's just the cultural situation that we're in that
Speaker 2: you see this, you know, be proud about your abortion,
Speaker 2: you know, things like that. So those are those are
Speaker 2: tied in there. So it's to me, it's not a
Speaker 2: political statement per se. It's this person's journey. She gets
Speaker 2: very personal, very upfront about all of her you know, triumphs, failures,
Speaker 2: et cetera. And it's told from the first person point
Speaker 2: of view. It's the only chapter like that, so she's
Speaker 2: literally telling you her story. And it's like you're having
Speaker 2: a conversation in your living room and doctor Wheeler is
Speaker 2: sitting across on a chair telling you that story. So
Speaker 2: it really, you know, it's really that personal in depth,
Speaker 2: and I think you really get to know the person.
Speaker 2: And I think it resonates with readers.
Speaker 1: I mean, and I think so, I mean, there's just
Speaker 1: there's so much craziness going on around that subject. I've
Speaker 1: never seen anything like it, So I think it's sensible
Speaker 1: rational reading of this book will help anybody else. But
Speaker 1: you also kind of talk about I mean, as a
Speaker 1: Catholic kind of this another thing that's happening, like the occult.
Speaker 1: These people are tampering with things and getting in trouble,
Speaker 1: looking into the darker side of things.
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, So the third chapter is all about spiritual warfare.
Speaker 2: And you know, most people learn about exorcisms or evil
Speaker 2: influences from Hollywood, which news splash. I'm most people realize
Speaker 2: that's not a great source. And so before writing this book,
Speaker 2: I didn't know anything about extorcism. So I really wrote
Speaker 2: it for the non expert, and I was able to
Speaker 2: interview the guy who co wrote the training manual for exorcists,
Speaker 2: so I've got a really great source and we go
Speaker 2: through his story on how he helps while it's you know,
Speaker 2: happening in the room when they're performing in exorcism, but
Speaker 2: it's all the stuff that happens before, during, and after.
Speaker 2: And you kind of touched on that be occult. I mean,
Speaker 2: that seems to be more popular than ever and we're
Speaker 2: seeing a decline in church attendance. You know, celebrities the
Speaker 2: media seem to make front of Christians all the time,
Speaker 2: and we as humans are kind of built to have
Speaker 2: this higher power relationship with God. And if you're not
Speaker 2: doing that well, that vacuum is going to get filled.
Speaker 2: And so a lot of people think, you know, the
Speaker 2: occult is funding games, it's no big deal. But if
Speaker 2: you think about it from a high level, from a
Speaker 2: Christian point of view, if you invite God into your life,
Speaker 2: he's going to respond. But if you invite the demon
Speaker 2: into your life, well he's going to respond as well.
Speaker 2: And a lot of times people get in a little
Speaker 2: bit over their head when it comes to the occult,
Speaker 2: and quite frankly, they're marketing it to a lot of
Speaker 2: young people, which is of TikTok, you know, one of
Speaker 2: the most popular places that especially young females go, and
Speaker 2: it gets a lot of views and they're just presenting
Speaker 2: this as this you know, you know, kind of fun
Speaker 2: and games type of situation. But it's really opening the
Speaker 2: door and if you invite the diabolic into your life,
Speaker 2: you're going to have.
Speaker 1: Problems, right, And I mean that's the real kind of
Speaker 1: the you mentioned Hollywood and talking about this, but the
Speaker 1: real story of exorcistm is based on a real book
Speaker 1: in the Midwest called The Possessed or Possessed, and it's
Speaker 1: about a real exorcism. Like that's really the guy was
Speaker 1: taking around the Ouiji board, and I actually read an
Speaker 1: interesting article through What's the Treasure at school in Omah
Speaker 1: Creighton that they had they like went back and did
Speaker 1: a retrospective. I'll send you the link. I'll put a
Speaker 1: link to that article actually in the show notes. But
Speaker 1: they did a retrospective about the actual priest who conducted
Speaker 1: that extorcism, like they had like real spirit like negative
Speaker 1: spiritual events happen. It's really something else. Let me see
Speaker 1: if I can find it. But yeah, maybe you can
Speaker 1: talk about your story because you mentioned a guy whose
Speaker 1: name I didn't hurt, Gabriel a morph and maybe you
Speaker 1: can talk. I actually had another guy on about exorcism
Speaker 1: and ask him an interesting question about the Catholic Church.
Speaker 1: Why does the Catholic Church continue or maybe have a
Speaker 1: specialty of exorcism or other churches don't. And I think
Speaker 1: I think because it goes all the you know, it
Speaker 1: goes all the way back to Peter and Christ, you
Speaker 1: know Christ, I think that it's a different heritage. I
Speaker 1: think would you agree with that?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean there's plenty of examples in the Bible
Speaker 2: where where Jesus meets somebody who is possessed by a
Speaker 2: demon and and liberates him. So it goes back to
Speaker 2: the time of Christ and has kind of followed through.
Speaker 2: But yeah, the you know, what most people don't realize
Speaker 2: about modern day exorcisms is that there is now a
Speaker 2: little bit more of a training to actually get get
Speaker 2: priest to know what they need to do. It isn't
Speaker 2: just a a situation where you have an apprentice. And
Speaker 2: so I I received a copy of this Screaming Manual,
Speaker 2: and so a lot of the concepts in the book,
Speaker 2: a lot of the the plot line is based on
Speaker 2: real cases and what they actually do and and finding
Speaker 2: out what's going on. And so there's some some surprises
Speaker 2: for me, and I think there were some there would
Speaker 2: be some surprises for the average reader. So for for example,
Speaker 2: there's a complex vetting process. I mean, you don't just
Speaker 2: walk into a church and say, hey, I need an
Speaker 2: exorcism and they throw some holy water on you and
Speaker 2: you're and you're good to go. Uh, there's a you know,
Speaker 2: mental physical exams. They do a pretty complex vetting process,
Speaker 2: and it takes a lot of time. It takes months,
Speaker 2: typically two to actually liberate that and one of the
Speaker 2: reasons why is typically if you have the situation, which
Speaker 2: is pretty rare. So I want to be clear that
Speaker 2: you know, a true demonic possession is rare. Most of
Speaker 2: the cases that come to the church, it's something else.
Speaker 2: It might be a diabolic affliction, it could be a
Speaker 2: mental health issue, et cetera. Less than one percent are
Speaker 2: really true possession. But when that does happen, what the
Speaker 2: priest has to figure out is how did you get here? Right?
Speaker 2: Did you go and get involved in yourself in the occult?
Speaker 2: Did you invite a demon in? Do you have you know,
Speaker 2: habitual mortal sin? Are you pursuing vices instead of virtues?
Speaker 2: And typically all that stuff has happened beforehand. So what
Speaker 2: the priest has to figure out is how many demons
Speaker 2: are there, because typically it's more than one, and there's
Speaker 2: a hierarchy of demons, just like there's a hierarchy of angels,
Speaker 2: some more powerful than others. And the priest has to
Speaker 2: figure out why is that demon there and is the
Speaker 2: person still attached to that to that sin or vice,
Speaker 2: because you're not going to get liberated from a demon
Speaker 2: unless you are turning away from that behavior and turning
Speaker 2: towards building your relationship with Christ. I mean that's really
Speaker 2: why it takes so long, because so many people they've
Speaker 2: gotten to this habit of all this you know, essentially
Speaker 2: bad behavior, and they don't want to give it up.
Speaker 2: And if if you don't give it up, then you're
Speaker 2: not going to get liberated. And you know, one of
Speaker 2: the one of the kind of the scenes in the
Speaker 2: book is is the main character, you know, asking the
Speaker 2: question why would someone not want to get liberated? And
Speaker 2: the answer is is because they don't want to give
Speaker 2: up their sinful lifestyle or the rejection of God, et cetera.
Speaker 2: And until you do that, you know, nothing's going to happen.
Speaker 2: And essentially it's all through the power of Christ. The
Speaker 2: priest doesn't have any special powers. It's all through Christ.
Speaker 2: But if you're rejecting God, you know you've got a
Speaker 2: conflict there and it's just gonna it's not going to
Speaker 2: get resolved. Right.
Speaker 1: So a lot of times these people invite this evil
Speaker 1: spirits or whatever into their lives, right, I mean, there's
Speaker 1: some kind of connection there that there's some invitation or
Speaker 1: something happens. It's not like they're just walking down the street.
Speaker 1: It's either through their vice, greed, lust, something like that.
Speaker 1: And then it compounds and gets work. Right, then that
Speaker 1: involves priest.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're not going to catch it sitting next to somebody,
Speaker 2: you know, in a stadium watching the football game. It's
Speaker 2: it's really going to be what you're doing, and you
Speaker 2: know it's it's there is some complexity there because I
Speaker 2: don't want the listeners to think that everything is the
Speaker 2: devil made me do it, you know, type of behavior.
Speaker 2: Most of the time, we're our own worst enemy. Most
Speaker 2: of the time, it's us choosing the wrong behavior. Most
Speaker 2: of us know right from wrong, but it's not always
Speaker 2: easy to choose that path. So you're right, it really
Speaker 2: is an invitation. And it's also how often you do it.
Speaker 2: You know, you might have, you know, played with Luigi
Speaker 2: board twenty years ago in college one time. That doesn't
Speaker 2: mean that all of a sudden you're going to have
Speaker 2: a bunch of diabolic affliction. But if you do that
Speaker 2: often and you keep doing it it, you know, it's
Speaker 2: like any other risk of behavior, you keep doing it
Speaker 2: and more likely that something bad is going to happen.
Speaker 2: I mean, things can happen bad that from one thing,
Speaker 2: but those those are really rare. So it's really your
Speaker 2: day to day behavior and your rejection of God. You know,
Speaker 2: so many people are are in that state of mind
Speaker 2: where they're rejecting biblical values. They blame God for all
Speaker 2: their problems, and so that just the lights of the devil.
Speaker 1: And some of these guys, like the people afflicted, don't
Speaker 1: even know what's happening to them. Because I think that's
Speaker 1: the same thing that happened with this real life story,
Speaker 1: is the victim didn't remember that much. Is that do
Speaker 1: you you find that to be the case?
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I interviewed some people who who were
Speaker 2: were actually possessed, and they talk about how their mind
Speaker 2: is never quiet. There's this sort of running diabolic dialogue
Speaker 2: in their head, and you know, they so it just
Speaker 2: really infests into that person's psyche and they may they
Speaker 2: may not really have complete control of everything what's going on,
Speaker 2: and they're they're just getting this constant commentary that's influencing
Speaker 2: their decisions, influencing their temptations and ultimately their behavior.
Speaker 1: Right, And the I think you wrote in the book,
Speaker 1: like ninety percent of like you said, of the they
Speaker 1: do an investigation, but most of the people aren't don't
Speaker 1: require this kind of special intervention by a priest ran.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it is pretty rare that that you're going to
Speaker 2: need a full blown exorcism, you know, that type of
Speaker 2: situation where where you truly are possessed by by the devil,
Speaker 2: but but you can get tempted, Uh, you can get influenced,
Speaker 2: and and so that can absolutely affect a lot more people.
Speaker 2: And uh, and it's harder to diagnose because you just
Speaker 2: don't know, you know, how much is you know, something
Speaker 2: going on in their head or what kind of influence
Speaker 2: they're they're under. But you know, I think a lot
Speaker 2: of you know a lot of people are just easily
Speaker 2: tempted by the devil. And and it's sometimes it's just
Speaker 2: too easy to pick that wrong path. And once you
Speaker 2: go down that path, it's it's hard to go back, right.
Speaker 1: It's just kind of like the way we're in. But
Speaker 1: also these the Catholic priests know a lot about demonology too,
Speaker 1: so they're not much different. There may be a more
Speaker 1: mod version, but they're kind of almost like demonologists or
Speaker 1: demon hunters too. Would you agree with that?
Speaker 2: They definitely have to know, you know, know what they're
Speaker 2: doing in order to deal with these situations. And and
Speaker 2: so you're seeing individual dioceses assign an exorcist team so
Speaker 2: they can they can get trained, they can they can
Speaker 2: know what they need to do, you know what they
Speaker 2: can't do, and they typically try to find the most
Speaker 2: virtuous priests that they can. And it's not something where
Speaker 2: you engage with the devil. You don't have conversations with
Speaker 2: a demon. You're essentially looking to channel the power of
Speaker 2: Christ and looking to counsel that person to turn away from,
Speaker 2: you know, from their vices and turn turned towards God.
Speaker 2: It's kind of that simple. But that doesn't mean it's
Speaker 2: easy for that person for sure, right, I.
Speaker 1: Mean, it's really something else. Yeah, and these I think
Speaker 1: these are becoming more common and there's actually much more
Speaker 1: in the common culture of these stories about exorcists and
Speaker 1: exorcism and the right and these things like there's other
Speaker 1: I mean, it's amazing because there were some of those
Speaker 1: people in the West Coast too, like Santa Clara University.
Speaker 1: I remember growing up around in that area, and so
Speaker 1: people really need to be aware of this and it's
Speaker 1: not really does happen to people. It's not fictional, like
Speaker 1: there's so many true stories that and going all the
Speaker 1: way back probably in time too, the new testament that
Speaker 1: people really need to be careful. But we are at
Speaker 1: the thirty five minute mark, John, is there anything you'd
Speaker 1: like to add or anything I'm missed? And where can
Speaker 1: people find the book?
Speaker 2: Yeah? So the way that I categorize this book is
Speaker 2: it's dramatized nonfiction. So it's real stories based on interviews, testimony,
Speaker 2: case files. But there's plot, and there's the dramatization of
Speaker 2: what's going on in these individuals lives and so there's action, dialogue, emotion.
Speaker 2: I worked with these people. I went back and forth
Speaker 2: editing with their particular chapter, so I feel like it's
Speaker 2: very accurate and true to their story because it was collaboration.
Speaker 2: But it reads like a fast paced fiction novel. And
Speaker 2: I think all the different stories, I mean, readers are
Speaker 2: going to see a little bit of themselves in the
Speaker 2: people profile. So I think it's going to resonate. The
Speaker 2: books sell on Amazon as well as Carnes and Noble Online.
Speaker 2: I do have a website which is www. It is
Speaker 2: not about dot com where they can get more information.
Speaker 2: You can get in contact with me, but that kind
Speaker 2: of you know, it really is trying to show, you know,
Speaker 2: how people are standing up against the evil in our society.
Speaker 2: And I've got three examples, and I think people will
Speaker 2: will enjoy the read.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think they will too. And I think that's
Speaker 1: very timely, like this human trafficking and all this occultism
Speaker 1: that's around and everything. I mean, you got to people
Speaker 1: need to be aware of the stuff. So I'm glad
Speaker 1: you wrote the book. And the best place to reach
Speaker 1: you is your website or your email address, your emails
Speaker 1: John ddauthor at gmail dot Comrade.
Speaker 2: Yes, and that's the listed on the website.
Speaker 1: That's it in the four books. And you can see
Speaker 1: the website and see it again. And I'll put up
Speaker 1: our earlier interview from two years ago, so I'll put
Speaker 1: that up before this one. But the author again is
Speaker 1: Don G. D Jirolamo d I G I R O
Speaker 1: L A m O. And the full time of the
Speaker 1: book that he just publishes, it's not about the devil,
Speaker 1: true stories about finding evil in the modern world. So
Speaker 1: thank you so much for your time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you, thanks for having me. And is there
Speaker 2: great to have an opportunity to connect with your audience.
Speaker 1: Yeah, awesome, thank you thanks so much. To stay there,
Speaker 1: stay there, Okay,