WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.120 --> 00:00:02.480 Before we dive in, here's another show you can enjoy 2 00:00:02.520 --> 00:00:05.040 in the True Story FM Family of Entertainment podcast. 3 00:00:06.080 --> 00:00:07.759 Horror movies get a bad rap. 4 00:00:08.080 --> 00:00:13.480 They're cheap thrills, mindless core, not cinema, blah blah blah. 5 00:00:13.599 --> 00:00:16.039 But we here at Sitting in the Dark no better. 6 00:00:16.519 --> 00:00:18.239 We know that horror is more than. 7 00:00:18.160 --> 00:00:21.160 Just jump scares and chainsaws. It's a reflection of our 8 00:00:21.199 --> 00:00:25.559 deepest fears. Our anxieties are okay, and there's a lot 9 00:00:25.559 --> 00:00:26.760 of jump scares and chain saws. 10 00:00:28.079 --> 00:00:30.960 Join us Pete Wright, Tommy Mets the Third, Kyle Wilson, 11 00:00:30.960 --> 00:00:33.600 and Kenan DS as we cut into the dark heart 12 00:00:33.679 --> 00:00:34.960 of horror cinema. 13 00:00:35.119 --> 00:00:38.240 Every episode we explore a different facet of the genre, 14 00:00:38.520 --> 00:00:42.119 from survival horror to home invasions, from zombies to birds. 15 00:00:42.399 --> 00:00:45.520 We tickle the tropes, analyze the angles, and sharpen our 16 00:00:45.560 --> 00:00:46.119 own axes. 17 00:00:46.119 --> 00:00:48.679 Along the way, we'll introduce you to the classics that 18 00:00:48.759 --> 00:00:52.399 shaped the genre than the modern masterpieces that are pushing 19 00:00:52.600 --> 00:00:54.320 the boundaries of terror. 20 00:00:54.520 --> 00:00:55.079 Sitting in the. 21 00:00:55.119 --> 00:00:58.759 Dark is your guide to navigating the terrifying, thrilling, and 22 00:00:58.880 --> 00:01:02.560 sometimes us bad world of horror movies. 23 00:01:02.920 --> 00:01:05.760 We'll help you understand why we love to be scared 24 00:01:07.040 --> 00:01:10.719 and maybe even convert you into a horror fan yourself. 25 00:01:11.040 --> 00:01:13.519 So turn off the nights, close the. 26 00:01:13.480 --> 00:01:16.040 Basement door, enjoina. 27 00:01:18.159 --> 00:01:18.439 Do. 28 00:01:21.879 --> 00:01:24.439 In a world where podcasts are a dime a dozen, 29 00:01:24.799 --> 00:01:27.280 one show dares to stand out from the rest. The 30 00:01:27.319 --> 00:01:30.239 Film Board, a podcast unafraid to tell it like it is. 31 00:01:30.640 --> 00:01:34.400 We're here for one reason, and one reason only downloads. 32 00:01:34.519 --> 00:01:37.640 That's right. We review new release movies because that's what 33 00:01:37.840 --> 00:01:38.879 gets people's attention. 34 00:01:38.959 --> 00:01:41.000 But just because we're in it for the clicks doesn't 35 00:01:41.040 --> 00:01:42.959 mean we don't take our job seriously. 36 00:01:43.439 --> 00:01:46.000 We're part of the next real family of film podcasts, 37 00:01:46.079 --> 00:01:47.120 and we're proud of it. 38 00:01:47.200 --> 00:01:50.079 Our reviews are just as insightful and thought provoking as 39 00:01:50.120 --> 00:01:51.879 any of our other film podcasts. 40 00:01:51.920 --> 00:01:53.959 It's just that this podcast is all about that. 41 00:01:54.000 --> 00:01:55.439 Sweet, sweet seo. 42 00:01:55.760 --> 00:01:58.159 The nectar squows from the tree of being. 43 00:01:59.040 --> 00:02:02.640 We're only human, but we're also creators, and creators eat 44 00:02:02.799 --> 00:02:03.680 clicks to survive. 45 00:02:03.799 --> 00:02:06.959 So if you want honest, unfiltered opinions on the very 46 00:02:07.040 --> 00:02:09.199 latest movies right on opening weekend. 47 00:02:08.879 --> 00:02:12.759 Delivered with the self awareness of a team looking for downloads. 48 00:02:12.159 --> 00:02:14.280 Then tune in to the Film Board. 49 00:02:15.800 --> 00:02:17.479 Where every download counts. 50 00:02:17.960 --> 00:02:19.840 But yours counts the most. 51 00:02:26.680 --> 00:02:30.080 Hello, and welcome to this episode of Superhero Ethics. Today 52 00:02:30.120 --> 00:02:32.680 we have special guests in yell of written in the 53 00:02:32.680 --> 00:02:35.479 Star Wars back with us, but not to talk Star Wars, 54 00:02:35.639 --> 00:02:38.879 to talk Hunger Games, along with Riki Hayashi. 55 00:02:39.199 --> 00:02:41.120 And let me actually start with you. Riki. 56 00:02:41.199 --> 00:02:44.039 We're talking today about Sunrise on the Reaping, which is 57 00:02:44.080 --> 00:02:46.120 the new Hunger Games book that came out just a 58 00:02:46.199 --> 00:02:48.800 few weeks ago and that will soon be getting also 59 00:02:48.919 --> 00:02:51.719 a Hunger Games movie out of it. I think in 60 00:02:51.800 --> 00:02:56.159 mid to late next year. Reeky is gonna we invited 61 00:02:56.199 --> 00:02:58.919 riky on. Riki has not read the book, but of 62 00:02:58.919 --> 00:03:00.680 course we want people who I haven't read the book 63 00:03:00.719 --> 00:03:02.919 to be able to participate in the conversation and. 64 00:03:02.879 --> 00:03:04.080 We find what we're discussing books. 65 00:03:04.120 --> 00:03:06.759 It's often helpful to have that person who hasn't read 66 00:03:06.759 --> 00:03:08.520 who can you know, tell us when we're being a 67 00:03:08.560 --> 00:03:12.240 little bit too cutting, too deep and not helping the 68 00:03:12.280 --> 00:03:15.840 audience stay along. Although it is a Ya novel, it's 69 00:03:15.879 --> 00:03:19.159 not terribly long. I finished it in about eight hours. 70 00:03:19.879 --> 00:03:22.120 If you if you really want to, I definitely recommend 71 00:03:22.159 --> 00:03:24.719 hitting pause in the podcast, finding a copy of the 72 00:03:24.759 --> 00:03:28.400 novel or reading, listening to it on audiobooks and consuming 73 00:03:28.439 --> 00:03:28.919 it that way. 74 00:03:29.280 --> 00:03:31.120 But if not, that's totally cool too. 75 00:03:31.719 --> 00:03:33.360 And Rikie, let me ask you, what do you know 76 00:03:33.400 --> 00:03:35.000 about the Hunger Games and what's kind of your feeling 77 00:03:35.000 --> 00:03:36.639 on the Hunger Games going into this discussion? 78 00:03:37.719 --> 00:03:41.479 Well, how do I pause recording this podcast and reading 79 00:03:41.479 --> 00:03:43.759 a book and coming back in eight hours? 80 00:03:43.840 --> 00:03:44.159 Sorry? 81 00:03:44.759 --> 00:03:50.639 I I read some synopsisis some reviews and stuff people 82 00:03:50.680 --> 00:03:54.560 were saying about this book, and I kind of want 83 00:03:54.560 --> 00:03:57.360 to read it now, So I'm excited for this discussion. 84 00:03:57.439 --> 00:04:01.560 I'm a person who generally doesn't mind being spoiled about things. 85 00:04:02.280 --> 00:04:05.759 It's like, you know, Darth Vader's Luke's father level things. 86 00:04:06.360 --> 00:04:09.199 But this is a prequel. My understanding is it's a 87 00:04:09.280 --> 00:04:13.639 prequel to the original Hunger Game's trilogy yep, dealing with 88 00:04:14.639 --> 00:04:18.879 I believe, twenty five years earlier the Hunger Games that 89 00:04:19.040 --> 00:04:24.680 Hamage the Woody Harrelson mentor character participated in and spoiler 90 00:04:24.959 --> 00:04:28.480 he wins, yeah, well yeah, exactly, Like I mean, because 91 00:04:28.519 --> 00:04:30.879 it's a prequel, we have that problem of you kind 92 00:04:30.879 --> 00:04:35.199 of know where people will end up, right, and maybe 93 00:04:35.199 --> 00:04:37.199 there are characters who are introduced to You're like, I 94 00:04:37.199 --> 00:04:39.079 don't know who this is, so they're probably gonna die 95 00:04:39.319 --> 00:04:45.120 type of thing. But it's so I'm going to spoil 96 00:04:45.160 --> 00:04:49.399 what I have read, sure, and that is that a 97 00:04:49.439 --> 00:04:52.480 lot of the things that take place in this novel 98 00:04:53.399 --> 00:04:58.319 are described in the original trilogy, like Hamage's Games, and 99 00:04:59.160 --> 00:05:02.879 what happens in reality is not at all what was 100 00:05:02.879 --> 00:05:05.439 described in the Hunger Games. And it's kind of like 101 00:05:05.480 --> 00:05:08.639 a the Hunger Games had a revisionist history and this 102 00:05:08.759 --> 00:05:10.199 is like, this is actually what happened. 103 00:05:10.639 --> 00:05:14.720 Yeah, yeah, I think it's really true. Danielle coming into this, 104 00:05:15.439 --> 00:05:19.519 tell us as about your background with Hunger Games. 105 00:05:19.079 --> 00:05:24.560 Well, I first read the trilogy I think when Mocking 106 00:05:24.680 --> 00:05:28.879 Jay first came out. The book I was sick for 107 00:05:28.920 --> 00:05:31.000 like a week so I couldn't go to school, and 108 00:05:31.079 --> 00:05:34.279 I had just gotten an e reader, and I was like, oh, 109 00:05:34.360 --> 00:05:36.759 the Hunger Games books. I've heard people talking about this, 110 00:05:36.800 --> 00:05:38.399 I'm going to read them. So I downloaded all of them, 111 00:05:38.480 --> 00:05:42.120 literally read them all in three days and quickly became 112 00:05:42.160 --> 00:05:46.199 obsessed with it along with my sisters. And so since 113 00:05:46.240 --> 00:05:48.959 then have just been, you know, have loved this series 114 00:05:49.040 --> 00:05:52.120 and this kind of world that Susan Collins has built. 115 00:05:54.319 --> 00:05:59.879 And when the Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes came out I, which, 116 00:06:00.040 --> 00:06:02.560 for people who don't know, is about Snow. It's from 117 00:06:02.600 --> 00:06:06.480 Snow's perspective, but it's written President Snow, president of pen M. 118 00:06:06.920 --> 00:06:09.120 But it's written in third person, and the other Hunger 119 00:06:09.160 --> 00:06:12.519 Games books, including Sunrise, are written in first person. When 120 00:06:12.560 --> 00:06:14.439 that first came out, I was kind of hesitant about 121 00:06:14.439 --> 00:06:16.879 it because I was of the belief then that, like, 122 00:06:17.079 --> 00:06:19.240 we don't need any more of Hunger Games. The trilogy 123 00:06:19.360 --> 00:06:21.360 is fine, it's perfect way it is. I don't want 124 00:06:21.360 --> 00:06:24.240 to risk going back into that and kind of ruining it, 125 00:06:24.680 --> 00:06:26.160 And so it took me a couple of years to 126 00:06:26.639 --> 00:06:28.279 read that book. I think I read it like a 127 00:06:28.360 --> 00:06:31.800 year and a half two years later and quickly realized 128 00:06:31.839 --> 00:06:34.680 I was wrong. I actually really love Ballad of Songbirds 129 00:06:34.680 --> 00:06:37.279 of Snakes, which I think Matthew, you and I have 130 00:06:37.319 --> 00:06:38.000 talked about that. 131 00:06:38.240 --> 00:06:38.480 Yeah. 132 00:06:38.519 --> 00:06:40.560 I think we've done a number of episodes on the 133 00:06:40.639 --> 00:06:42.720 Hunger Games on this podcast, and I think you've been 134 00:06:42.720 --> 00:06:44.639 a part of every single one of them. And I 135 00:06:44.680 --> 00:06:46.560 do remember kind of poking you to read that book 136 00:06:46.600 --> 00:06:48.560 and being really glad when you finally did it because 137 00:06:48.800 --> 00:06:50.199 we did an episode. I think we did an episode 138 00:06:50.240 --> 00:06:52.439 on the movie, but also reference the book on that 139 00:06:52.560 --> 00:06:53.000 quite a bit. 140 00:06:53.600 --> 00:06:59.439 Yeah, yeah, I love that book and Sunrise on the Reaping. 141 00:06:59.519 --> 00:07:03.000 Whenever they announced it, they didn't tell us at first 142 00:07:03.480 --> 00:07:05.319 whose perspective it was going to be from or what 143 00:07:05.360 --> 00:07:07.519 it was going to be about. But then they told 144 00:07:07.600 --> 00:07:10.079 us it was going to be about the the second 145 00:07:10.160 --> 00:07:12.639 quarter quell Hamig's Games, but they didn't still didn't tell 146 00:07:12.720 --> 00:07:14.680 us who the who the voice was going to be, 147 00:07:15.279 --> 00:07:17.040 and and so I was kind of like, I don't 148 00:07:17.079 --> 00:07:21.519 know if she'll give it give us Hamage's perspective, because 149 00:07:21.800 --> 00:07:24.160 we've already we know the gist of what happened in 150 00:07:24.199 --> 00:07:28.240 his games because Catness uh watches it with Peta in 151 00:07:28.560 --> 00:07:30.879 Catching Fire. We don't really need to retell that story. 152 00:07:30.920 --> 00:07:33.639 So Zan Collins isn't isn't one who tells the story 153 00:07:33.639 --> 00:07:36.199 that's already been told. Well, I should have known that 154 00:07:36.319 --> 00:07:39.639 she pulls something out of her hat to surprise everybody, 155 00:07:39.639 --> 00:07:43.720 which is that obviously it's it's propaganda what Catness and 156 00:07:43.759 --> 00:07:46.439 Peter watch and Catching Fire and and we don't know 157 00:07:46.480 --> 00:07:49.319 the real story, and and the you know, propaganda becomes 158 00:07:49.360 --> 00:07:52.000 the big theme, which we'll talk about later. But I 159 00:07:52.079 --> 00:07:54.680 just that's really speaks to what I love about Suziane 160 00:07:54.680 --> 00:07:57.399 Collins and about the series in general, is that she's 161 00:07:57.480 --> 00:08:01.879 such a good writer and respects I think the craft 162 00:08:01.920 --> 00:08:04.720 of storytelling too, like she would really views it as 163 00:08:05.399 --> 00:08:08.360 as the art that it is, but also that there's 164 00:08:08.399 --> 00:08:10.639 a structure to it. There's a way to like break 165 00:08:10.680 --> 00:08:13.879 things down and to help things flow easier and help 166 00:08:13.920 --> 00:08:17.480 people understand it, not make it so complicated and convoluted, 167 00:08:17.560 --> 00:08:21.000 and still tell really engaging and important story. And so 168 00:08:21.240 --> 00:08:23.560 I think so many people love The Hunger Games for 169 00:08:24.040 --> 00:08:25.759 a reason, and I think that that is the start 170 00:08:25.839 --> 00:08:26.279 of it all. 171 00:08:27.519 --> 00:08:29.560 I think that is so true, and Rieky, I'm really 172 00:08:29.560 --> 00:08:31.360 glad that that was the thing you picked up on 173 00:08:31.399 --> 00:08:34.639 as well, even just from the synopsises you'd read, in 174 00:08:34.759 --> 00:08:37.679 terms of being like kind of challenging the version of 175 00:08:37.720 --> 00:08:40.960 it that Catnus knew and thus that we knew, because 176 00:08:41.799 --> 00:08:44.120 you know, people who've listened to this podcast and even 177 00:08:44.120 --> 00:08:46.960 more so my Star Wars podcast know that I have 178 00:08:47.000 --> 00:08:49.799 a really high bar when it comes to prequels, especially 179 00:08:49.879 --> 00:08:52.279 in terms of I don't like when the prequel sets 180 00:08:52.360 --> 00:08:55.639 up something that kind of doesn't match with what we 181 00:08:55.679 --> 00:08:58.080 already have in the established canon for what comes later. 182 00:08:58.799 --> 00:09:01.679 And I found myself going through that same process of 183 00:09:02.240 --> 00:09:04.600 reading parts of this book and thinking, wait a minute, 184 00:09:04.600 --> 00:09:06.759 this is not this doesn't match up with what we 185 00:09:06.799 --> 00:09:10.759 know happened is even Susanne khl Oh okay, I get 186 00:09:10.799 --> 00:09:13.600 it now. And I thought that was just so brilliant 187 00:09:13.639 --> 00:09:16.879 that she, like, like you said, approaching as a craft, 188 00:09:16.879 --> 00:09:19.240 approaching it as the art form that it is, and 189 00:09:19.279 --> 00:09:21.840 really knowing, like, here's the way people think about prequels 190 00:09:21.879 --> 00:09:25.480 is that we are going to be, whether consciously or subconsciously, 191 00:09:25.879 --> 00:09:28.039 trying to match this up to the story we know. 192 00:09:29.240 --> 00:09:31.320 And what she's reminding you is that a part of 193 00:09:31.360 --> 00:09:34.159 so much of this being first person narrative is that 194 00:09:34.240 --> 00:09:39.799 everyone is to some extent a unreliable narrator because you know, 195 00:09:39.840 --> 00:09:42.000 sometimes they don't understand their own emotions, which are these 196 00:09:42.039 --> 00:09:44.200 are really great things they did in batness for so often, 197 00:09:44.600 --> 00:09:48.120 but also they're telling you what they experience, and everythink 198 00:09:48.120 --> 00:09:51.679 they're experiencing is through the media that they know. And 199 00:09:52.200 --> 00:09:54.320 it's kind of funny too, because she'd already done that 200 00:09:54.360 --> 00:09:56.919 to us, you know, the books had told us that 201 00:09:57.440 --> 00:10:01.759 Area thirteen, District thirteen doesn't EXAs because it was cat 202 00:10:01.799 --> 00:10:03.759 miss telling us and she didn't know that it existed, 203 00:10:04.120 --> 00:10:05.919 and so I kind of should have been ready for that, 204 00:10:06.000 --> 00:10:07.879 but for herd it is again was so great. 205 00:10:08.360 --> 00:10:12.360 That's a strength for the first person narrative is you 206 00:10:12.399 --> 00:10:16.559 can certainly have unreliable narrators in the sense that they 207 00:10:16.600 --> 00:10:20.840 are lying either to themselves or to the audience, like intentionally, 208 00:10:21.440 --> 00:10:24.159 but in a case like this, the unreliability of the 209 00:10:24.279 --> 00:10:26.720 narrator comes from their lack of knowledge, which is not 210 00:10:26.919 --> 00:10:30.279 necessarily a fault, like they are being lied to by 211 00:10:30.399 --> 00:10:34.960 people and then using that to subvert the audience the 212 00:10:35.039 --> 00:10:39.159 reader's expectations. I think is an excellent technique and use 213 00:10:39.200 --> 00:10:42.159 of the first person, and it kind of loses a 214 00:10:42.200 --> 00:10:46.879 little like in film form because even though you have 215 00:10:46.919 --> 00:10:50.159 a protagonist that stories are often told from the perspective 216 00:10:50.200 --> 00:10:54.480 of a film, really like takes you outside of them 217 00:10:54.919 --> 00:10:58.799 and makes is like third person by default, right unless 218 00:10:58.799 --> 00:11:00.559 you have a very specific st or right. 219 00:11:01.320 --> 00:11:06.679 Yeah, I agree. I I like to call them biased 220 00:11:07.279 --> 00:11:10.639 like narrators, like not necessarily unreliable, because I do feel like, 221 00:11:10.639 --> 00:11:12.559 like you said, unreliable has kind of like a negative 222 00:11:12.600 --> 00:11:17.559 connotation to it, like they're intentionally lying to you. But 223 00:11:17.639 --> 00:11:20.240 we're all biased in what we know and in what 224 00:11:20.360 --> 00:11:26.200 and how we even perceive ourselves isn't necessarily true to 225 00:11:26.279 --> 00:11:30.080 how other people see us and or like our own actions. 226 00:11:30.159 --> 00:11:32.399 Sometimes we think we're doing something for a reason, a 227 00:11:32.399 --> 00:11:37.000 certain reason, but it is sometimes something else. And and 228 00:11:37.039 --> 00:11:39.200 so I kind of I always viewed Catnus a little 229 00:11:39.240 --> 00:11:43.879 bit as like a biased narrator, an inherently biased narrators, 230 00:11:44.000 --> 00:11:45.279 as we all are as humans. 231 00:11:45.799 --> 00:11:48.200 Yeah, I think it's really true. 232 00:11:48.440 --> 00:11:52.039 Yeah, I mean she starts the story as a teenager, 233 00:11:53.480 --> 00:11:57.399 a young woman, and like in the in this setting, 234 00:11:57.519 --> 00:12:01.080 like the things that she has put through are traumatizing, 235 00:12:01.200 --> 00:12:05.039 and it's hard to imagine yourself, right, Like, of course, 236 00:12:05.080 --> 00:12:08.320 like these types of novels, people like to imagine themselves 237 00:12:08.360 --> 00:12:10.559 as the hero, and that's part of the allure of it. 238 00:12:11.159 --> 00:12:16.200 But what she goes through is incredibly traumatizing and just 239 00:12:17.600 --> 00:12:21.679 I don't know, I would say devastating. Like I finished 240 00:12:21.679 --> 00:12:24.000 the movie series and I was like, wow, this is terrible. 241 00:12:26.039 --> 00:12:29.159 Like I enjoyed what I watched to the most degree, 242 00:12:29.360 --> 00:12:32.679 but I mean, from a perspective of it wasn't a 243 00:12:32.720 --> 00:12:35.639 happy ending, right, Yeah, Yeah. 244 00:12:35.480 --> 00:12:38.559 I mean it was an ending of survival instead of victory. Yeah, 245 00:12:38.600 --> 00:12:40.440 And I think that's something plays out here as well. 246 00:12:41.159 --> 00:12:43.840 And you know, we're talking about Susanne Collins. One thing 247 00:12:43.879 --> 00:12:46.720 that she has said very clearly is that she doesn't 248 00:12:46.759 --> 00:12:48.799 write a book just because it's like, all right, well, 249 00:12:48.840 --> 00:12:52.759 time to write another book. She's obviously doing very well financially, 250 00:12:52.799 --> 00:12:55.480 and I think that's a concern as much for her. 251 00:12:55.559 --> 00:12:57.840 It's really question of that. As she has said, she 252 00:12:57.960 --> 00:13:01.600 writes when she has something to say. Danielle, what do 253 00:13:01.639 --> 00:13:03.600 you think she was saying in this book? What was 254 00:13:03.639 --> 00:13:06.519 the thing she wanted to say when she sat down 255 00:13:06.559 --> 00:13:08.080 to write this book, at least as it came across 256 00:13:08.120 --> 00:13:08.320 to you. 257 00:13:09.399 --> 00:13:13.120 Oh, I could feel her anger in this book more 258 00:13:13.200 --> 00:13:17.000 so than any of the other Hunger Games books. Like, 259 00:13:17.000 --> 00:13:18.759 there were moments where I was reading it where I 260 00:13:18.879 --> 00:13:23.960 just was like, she like, you know, there's a gift 261 00:13:23.960 --> 00:13:26.200 that people post a lot where like that someone's writing 262 00:13:26.240 --> 00:13:30.360 with a quill and it's like on fire. Like that's 263 00:13:30.360 --> 00:13:32.759 why I like pictured. It's just that you can feel 264 00:13:32.759 --> 00:13:35.320 her anger. And I don't want to speak for her, 265 00:13:35.759 --> 00:13:38.679 right because we don't know an author's intention. We can 266 00:13:38.720 --> 00:13:41.159 never like truly know. Even if they tell us themselves, 267 00:13:41.159 --> 00:13:43.519 they could be it could be lying or exaggerating whatever. 268 00:13:43.960 --> 00:13:48.200 But my own feeling from it is just that she 269 00:13:48.480 --> 00:13:51.480 was she was angry at a lot of things that 270 00:13:51.519 --> 00:13:55.799 are happening now politically in the US across the world, 271 00:13:56.440 --> 00:14:01.039 and propaganda is such a good theme, I think, to 272 00:14:01.240 --> 00:14:06.440 channel that anger through, because propaganda isn't inherently a negative thing. 273 00:14:07.200 --> 00:14:09.840 You can use propaganda for rebellions, as we see in 274 00:14:09.879 --> 00:14:15.000 the original trilogy, but you can also use it to 275 00:14:15.000 --> 00:14:19.080 to ensure the longevity of an empire. Yeah, and and 276 00:14:20.080 --> 00:14:24.200 there's some quotes at the beginning, right before the actual 277 00:14:24.320 --> 00:14:29.159 narration starts, where it talks about, you know, all propaganda 278 00:14:29.240 --> 00:14:32.039 is a lie. I think George Orwell says that I 279 00:14:32.039 --> 00:14:34.600 don't think it's inherently bad as long as you know 280 00:14:35.679 --> 00:14:39.600 what it is that you're doing with it. And I 281 00:14:39.600 --> 00:14:42.919 think that that's such a perfect just tool to use 282 00:14:42.960 --> 00:14:46.519 to talk about what's happening now in the US and 283 00:14:47.200 --> 00:14:50.000 just you know, all over the world, largely because of 284 00:14:50.000 --> 00:14:53.799 the US, to see where we lie on that what 285 00:14:53.960 --> 00:14:58.879 propaganda are we being exposed to? Are we aware that 286 00:14:58.919 --> 00:15:04.600 it's propaganda? If we are, why aren't we doing anything 287 00:15:04.639 --> 00:15:06.960 about it? Like, if it's bad, it's propaganda for something 288 00:15:06.960 --> 00:15:10.399 that is harmful to other people, why aren't we doing 289 00:15:10.399 --> 00:15:13.960 anything about it? If we're aware of that, what choices 290 00:15:14.000 --> 00:15:15.960 do we have? And it's not really placing the blame 291 00:15:16.000 --> 00:15:19.519 on any one person. It's genuinely what I felt, asking 292 00:15:19.559 --> 00:15:24.200 the reader to question these things, to question if you 293 00:15:24.240 --> 00:15:26.919 have the opportunity to do something, to take action, and 294 00:15:26.960 --> 00:15:31.879 you don't, why, YEA, like genuine curiosity, Why haven't you 295 00:15:31.960 --> 00:15:34.720 done that? What are the reasons? And if you understand 296 00:15:34.720 --> 00:15:37.559 the reasons, then you can maybe understand how to work 297 00:15:37.600 --> 00:15:40.279 around them or how to work through them, how to 298 00:15:40.320 --> 00:15:43.519 push against them. And I think that that was just 299 00:15:43.600 --> 00:15:47.960 so cleverly done in here by using some characters like 300 00:15:48.279 --> 00:15:51.679 Plutarch for example, I thought he was a perfect character 301 00:15:51.960 --> 00:15:54.960 to really explore that through. But Yeah, what struck me 302 00:15:55.039 --> 00:15:57.519 the most because I could go on and on about this, 303 00:15:57.679 --> 00:16:00.279 but it was just really the anger I think a 304 00:16:00.320 --> 00:16:02.799 lot of us can relate to, and that we ourselves 305 00:16:02.840 --> 00:16:05.639 have felt. It is just I think there's a reason. 306 00:16:05.679 --> 00:16:09.960 I think she says in the Q and A that 307 00:16:10.000 --> 00:16:11.879 she finished the book or not the hum and aid 308 00:16:11.879 --> 00:16:14.000 the acknowledgments at the end. I think she finished the 309 00:16:14.000 --> 00:16:19.360 book in like August of last year, and I thought 310 00:16:20.720 --> 00:16:26.559 and the production company for the film was surprised whenever 311 00:16:26.600 --> 00:16:30.039 they were contacted about it. So she started writing it 312 00:16:30.080 --> 00:16:32.159 I think probably the beginning of twenty twenty four, end 313 00:16:32.159 --> 00:16:35.559 of twenty twenty three, So this is soon, like not 314 00:16:35.639 --> 00:16:39.799 that long ago. It's definitely in like there's a reason 315 00:16:39.879 --> 00:16:44.960 for it, right. It's an ants in response to something, 316 00:16:45.000 --> 00:16:46.960 and I think a lot of us know what that is. 317 00:16:47.799 --> 00:16:49.679 Yeah, I've made the comment that I kind of want 318 00:16:49.679 --> 00:16:52.440 her and Alexander Freed, the author of the newest Star 319 00:16:52.519 --> 00:16:55.919 Wars book, The Mask of Fear, which is certainly not 320 00:16:55.960 --> 00:16:58.919 about anything relevant. It's just about senators githering and not 321 00:16:58.960 --> 00:17:01.799 knowing what to do as an empire takes over. But 322 00:17:01.840 --> 00:17:03.559 I kind of want hurt those two to like form 323 00:17:03.559 --> 00:17:06.480 a support group of people who are processing their feelings 324 00:17:06.519 --> 00:17:08.839 about what's happening in this country and this world through 325 00:17:08.839 --> 00:17:10.960 their fiction, because we certainly need much more of it. 326 00:17:12.039 --> 00:17:14.279 And I think the other major theme that she talks about, 327 00:17:14.319 --> 00:17:17.240 and I really love it what you said, Danielle, it's 328 00:17:17.279 --> 00:17:21.200 not about blame. The word she uses a lot is complicity, 329 00:17:22.039 --> 00:17:27.279 and it's heemits really thinking about how everyone in this system, 330 00:17:27.799 --> 00:17:31.599 including in some ways himself, is complicit in what allows 331 00:17:31.720 --> 00:17:35.240 things to happen, because and this is a theme that 332 00:17:35.279 --> 00:17:37.119 one of my favorite movies that I'll talk about again 333 00:17:37.160 --> 00:17:41.880 and again, Viva Vendetta really talks about, is that these systems, 334 00:17:41.960 --> 00:17:44.960 like the capital, like any kind of tyrannical government, exists 335 00:17:45.599 --> 00:17:49.400 because the people are constantly doing things. They're complicit and 336 00:17:49.480 --> 00:17:51.759 allowing it to exist and allowing it to use its 337 00:17:51.759 --> 00:17:55.119 fear and whatever. And sometimes it's like you're complying, you're 338 00:17:55.200 --> 00:17:58.279 complicit because your other alternative is something truly awful, like 339 00:17:58.319 --> 00:18:01.880 imprisonment or death. And so that might be a legitimate 340 00:18:02.000 --> 00:18:04.960 choice you make, but that you have to understand that 341 00:18:05.000 --> 00:18:08.599 the cost of that choice you're making is to allow 342 00:18:08.720 --> 00:18:11.480 the horrible thing to continue. 343 00:18:11.599 --> 00:18:13.200 And one of the things. 344 00:18:12.920 --> 00:18:16.400 That that they they've explored somewhat in some of the 345 00:18:16.440 --> 00:18:21.200 other books, and especially in Ballad of Snakes and Songbirds, 346 00:18:22.279 --> 00:18:25.240 And in that book, you know, the young Snow who 347 00:18:25.240 --> 00:18:28.920 becomes President Snow kind of he comes to understand that 348 00:18:28.960 --> 00:18:31.400 one of the points of the Hunger Games is to 349 00:18:31.519 --> 00:18:35.680 keep all the districts separate, to pit them against each other. 350 00:18:36.079 --> 00:18:38.440 And even pit individuals against each other to make it 351 00:18:38.480 --> 00:18:41.559 all about individual success instead of group success. 352 00:18:41.240 --> 00:18:44.000 Or group rescue and Hamish kind of cut. 353 00:18:44.160 --> 00:18:45.559 In this book, we get to kind of see the 354 00:18:45.559 --> 00:18:48.400 flip side of that of Hamage coming to understand the 355 00:18:48.440 --> 00:18:51.079 ways in which he is complicit in all of this, 356 00:18:51.400 --> 00:18:54.319 and that pretty much breaking him in a lot of 357 00:18:54.319 --> 00:18:57.640 ways of kind of seeing that even by winning, he 358 00:18:57.759 --> 00:18:59.559 is now going to be the victor and he is 359 00:18:59.559 --> 00:19:01.960 going to be the one who you know, shows that 360 00:19:02.079 --> 00:19:06.400 he is like that. They becomes a part of imperial 361 00:19:06.519 --> 00:19:10.119 of the capital propaganda, and how he fights about against 362 00:19:10.160 --> 00:19:13.000 that and tries to rebel against that in a system 363 00:19:13.000 --> 00:19:15.440 that utterly kind of is ready for that and doesn't 364 00:19:15.440 --> 00:19:17.079 allow doesn't allow him to do it in any. 365 00:19:16.920 --> 00:19:17.839 Way that that matters. 366 00:19:19.559 --> 00:19:23.720 Yeah, I think it's it's really interesting. I made a 367 00:19:23.839 --> 00:19:27.440 video about this, about the different levels of complicity that 368 00:19:28.319 --> 00:19:31.720 that Cusan Collins shows specifically through Sunrise and the Reaping. 369 00:19:31.759 --> 00:19:33.279 But it's also, like you said, a thread throughout the 370 00:19:33.279 --> 00:19:37.240 other books is how the truths themselves and especially the 371 00:19:37.319 --> 00:19:41.680 victors are are made to be complicit, but how the games, 372 00:19:41.720 --> 00:19:43.240 and this is a point in the ballot of Songbirds 373 00:19:43.279 --> 00:19:47.880 and snakes too about how the games like encourage that 374 00:19:47.960 --> 00:19:52.119 complicity to where it's almost like the tribute's choice at 375 00:19:52.119 --> 00:19:56.000 that point. And and we see this in the original 376 00:19:56.000 --> 00:19:59.640 trilogy with Catnus in the first Games, her first games, 377 00:20:00.440 --> 00:20:02.920 there are parts where I have like little notes where's 378 00:20:03.240 --> 00:20:05.559 she sees one of the other tributes make a stupid 379 00:20:05.599 --> 00:20:07.920 choice about lighting fire in the middle of the night, 380 00:20:08.480 --> 00:20:10.440 and she's like, I have half a mind to go 381 00:20:10.480 --> 00:20:13.799 over there and end it in her myself. And because 382 00:20:13.799 --> 00:20:16.240 she's so stupid, I probably wouldn't even feel guilty about it, 383 00:20:16.279 --> 00:20:18.880 and I was happy in the margins, Like this is 384 00:20:19.000 --> 00:20:22.200 Catnus thinking how the Capital wants the tributes to be 385 00:20:22.240 --> 00:20:27.599 thinking in the arena, because that is proof of Snow's 386 00:20:28.279 --> 00:20:32.880 philosophical ideology that once someone is put into the arena, 387 00:20:33.519 --> 00:20:37.720 their inherent nature, which according to him is evil, will 388 00:20:37.759 --> 00:20:42.200 take over. And I think it's so interesting that we 389 00:20:42.240 --> 00:20:45.880 see almost the opposite with Hamich. He goes into the 390 00:20:45.920 --> 00:20:49.519 games accepting that he's probably gonna die. He is not 391 00:20:49.759 --> 00:20:51.920 trying to fight his way out of there. He has 392 00:20:51.960 --> 00:20:56.160 a mission, which, as we learn, is you know, like 393 00:20:56.240 --> 00:20:59.960 the starts or the kind of the little bow spark 394 00:21:00.079 --> 00:21:02.240 of rebellion. He has a mission, he's going to get 395 00:21:02.279 --> 00:21:04.079 it done, and he expects to die on his way out. 396 00:21:04.720 --> 00:21:08.720 And there is no part where he is thinking, how 397 00:21:08.759 --> 00:21:12.480 am I going to kill this person? I'm going, like 398 00:21:12.559 --> 00:21:14.319 seeing a person over there, I'm going to go get 399 00:21:14.359 --> 00:21:16.799 rid of them. Now, there's no time where he's thinking that. 400 00:21:17.039 --> 00:21:19.880 The only time he does is whenever it's self defense, 401 00:21:19.920 --> 00:21:22.480