WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.120 --> 00:00:02.520 Before we dive in, here's another show you can enjoy 2 00:00:02.520 --> 00:00:05.080 in the True Story FM Family of Entertainment podcasts. 3 00:00:05.400 --> 00:00:07.719 Well, howdy folks. My name is Lester Ryan Clark, and 4 00:00:07.799 --> 00:00:10.480 I'm Keenandias and we're the hosts of The Exorcist Minute, 5 00:00:10.519 --> 00:00:13.480 a show where we examine, extrapolate, and excavate the scariest 6 00:00:13.480 --> 00:00:14.160 movie of all time. 7 00:00:14.240 --> 00:00:17.320 Each episode covers a single minute of William Friedkin's nineteen 8 00:00:17.359 --> 00:00:19.480 seventy three horror masterpiece, The Exorcist. 9 00:00:19.559 --> 00:00:22.000 If you like deep dives, this show is the deepest. 10 00:00:22.079 --> 00:00:24.879 Did you know the film's iconic theme song, Jubular Bells 11 00:00:24.960 --> 00:00:26.800 wasn't written specifically for the movie, Or. 12 00:00:26.800 --> 00:00:29.239 That the nineteen seventy three audience members were throwing up 13 00:00:29.239 --> 00:00:31.160 and fainting in the theater before they ever got a 14 00:00:31.160 --> 00:00:31.839 glimpse of the demon. 15 00:00:31.920 --> 00:00:34.840 What about all the crazy onset mishaps, cast injuries the 16 00:00:34.880 --> 00:00:36.399 director of firing real guns? 17 00:00:36.600 --> 00:00:38.560 Ever wonder where weiji boards came from or how they 18 00:00:38.560 --> 00:00:40.399 got their name. How about some history on the Catholic 19 00:00:40.520 --> 00:00:43.079 Church or the Roman rite of exorcism, or maybe we 20 00:00:43.079 --> 00:00:45.679 can tempt you with some juicy demonology. Lourd, did you 21 00:00:45.759 --> 00:00:48.119 know that Bazuzu had an ex wife. Find the Exorcist 22 00:00:48.159 --> 00:00:50.439 Minute on iTunes or Spotify or wherever you listen to 23 00:00:50.479 --> 00:00:54.479 your shows, or at the exorcistminute dot com. Until next time, Folks. 24 00:00:54.320 --> 00:00:56.560 The power of the Exorcist compels. 25 00:00:56.159 --> 00:01:03.880 You ever wonder what bridges the gap between your favorite 26 00:01:03.920 --> 00:01:08.200 film genres, subgenres, and movements. CinemaScope is here to explore 27 00:01:08.239 --> 00:01:11.120 these connections, taking you on a thrilling odyssey through the 28 00:01:11.120 --> 00:01:14.560 ever evolving art of cinema. I'm your host, Andy Nelson, 29 00:01:14.760 --> 00:01:17.000 and in each episode, we embark on a deep dive 30 00:01:17.000 --> 00:01:19.599 into the forces that sculpt the world of film, from 31 00:01:19.640 --> 00:01:21.719 the styles you know in love, like Heigst films or 32 00:01:21.719 --> 00:01:23.599 the French New Wave, to the ones you may not 33 00:01:23.640 --> 00:01:27.040 be as familiar with, like Turkish Yeshelcham or Brazilian Nordsterns. 34 00:01:27.400 --> 00:01:31.840 My expert guests and I unravel the complex tapestry of storytelling, style, 35 00:01:31.959 --> 00:01:35.200 and innovation that defines the world of film. As we 36 00:01:35.319 --> 00:01:39.319 unpact the myriad catalysts of change that shape these diverse styles. 37 00:01:39.480 --> 00:01:42.400 Whether you're a student of film, a creative professional, or 38 00:01:42.439 --> 00:01:46.280 simply a devoted movie enthusiast, CinemaScope is your gateway to 39 00:01:46.319 --> 00:01:50.239 a richer, more immersive film experience. Don't just watch movies, 40 00:01:50.560 --> 00:01:55.159 understand them, appreciate them, and revel in their artistry with CinemaScope. 41 00:01:55.439 --> 00:02:07.040 Subscribe today. 42 00:02:08.240 --> 00:02:11.520 Hello, and welcome to this episode of Superhero Ethics. Today 43 00:02:11.560 --> 00:02:15.240 we are talking myself and Riki Hayashi about Terminator to Zero. 44 00:02:15.759 --> 00:02:18.120 This is an anime that hasn't gotten much fanfare but 45 00:02:18.319 --> 00:02:23.159 really interesting. It's on Netflix. It is a Japanese made anime, 46 00:02:23.280 --> 00:02:25.639 but it has a really great uh there's both a 47 00:02:25.680 --> 00:02:28.120 really great Japanese voice actor cast and a really great 48 00:02:28.159 --> 00:02:32.039 English speaking voice actor cast for two different voice tracks 49 00:02:32.199 --> 00:02:34.599 that go with the show, and it really raises some 50 00:02:34.719 --> 00:02:38.800 very interesting questions about how have our ideas of AI 51 00:02:39.039 --> 00:02:42.840 changed since the original Terminator movie back in the early eighties, 52 00:02:43.159 --> 00:02:45.560 how have our ideas of time travel changed? And what 53 00:02:45.639 --> 00:02:49.000 does this show kind of add to that new discussion. 54 00:02:49.120 --> 00:02:50.479 So let me start by saying hello to my co 55 00:02:50.560 --> 00:02:53.360 host Riki Hayashi. And Riki, I just kind of loved 56 00:02:53.400 --> 00:02:56.879 to hear from you. What kind of word Where did 57 00:02:56.919 --> 00:02:58.759 you fall in terms of how you felt that the 58 00:02:58.800 --> 00:03:00.800 Terminator franchise before you started watching this? 59 00:03:01.439 --> 00:03:04.080 I like the original. 60 00:03:05.000 --> 00:03:07.840 I guess trilogy, like the third ones not that good, 61 00:03:08.080 --> 00:03:09.680 but like old Terminator. 62 00:03:10.159 --> 00:03:11.639 James Cameron Tamerinator movies. 63 00:03:12.000 --> 00:03:17.639 Yeah, and the stuff that they have done since then, 64 00:03:18.280 --> 00:03:25.520 what they've had, Genesis, Salvation, Dark Fate. Now this has 65 00:03:25.560 --> 00:03:30.280 gotten increasingly confusing, for one thing, with the time travel 66 00:03:31.400 --> 00:03:35.479 and seems to be confused about where where it wants 67 00:03:35.520 --> 00:03:41.479 to be in terms of nostalgia bait, I. 68 00:03:41.439 --> 00:03:43.560 Guess I will say the phrase which. 69 00:03:43.360 --> 00:03:46.520 A lot of franchises have been trying to like figure 70 00:03:46.520 --> 00:03:49.319 out where to land on this, and Terminator has been 71 00:03:49.360 --> 00:03:54.000 one of those because you have these aging stars, you know, 72 00:03:54.120 --> 00:03:59.280 Arnold Schwarzenegger and Linda Hamilton that really don't fit in 73 00:03:59.360 --> 00:04:04.879 a modern movie anymore, unfortunately, right, right, But but people 74 00:04:04.960 --> 00:04:08.919 love them. I mean, like Linda Hamilton as Sarah Connor 75 00:04:09.000 --> 00:04:15.280 in Terminator too specifically on one of my childhood or 76 00:04:15.439 --> 00:04:19.279 young person crushes for sure, just like I was a 77 00:04:19.279 --> 00:04:24.319 little too young for Sigourney Weavers Ripley to resonate like 78 00:04:24.360 --> 00:04:26.480 it was before my time, Like I saw those movies. 79 00:04:26.519 --> 00:04:30.040 But but like Terminator two came out at just the 80 00:04:30.120 --> 00:04:32.279 right time. I was like, oh my god, like that's 81 00:04:32.319 --> 00:04:32.800 that's hot. 82 00:04:33.279 --> 00:04:34.959 Yeah, like that the tough woman. 83 00:04:36.000 --> 00:04:39.160 So I have a lot of love for this franchise, 84 00:04:40.160 --> 00:04:45.680 but I am increasingly confused by what direction they're going. 85 00:04:45.720 --> 00:04:48.000 I don't even know, like as a franchise, if there 86 00:04:48.079 --> 00:04:51.360 is a direction, and I think this Terminator zero project 87 00:04:51.399 --> 00:04:55.160 perfectly exemplifies like what is going on here, Like first off, 88 00:04:55.160 --> 00:04:57.879 it did not have much fanfare, I think, as you said, 89 00:04:58.480 --> 00:05:03.519 and then it it doesn't connect to the larger Terminator 90 00:05:03.639 --> 00:05:08.680 universe other than having robots and Skynet I think, right, like, 91 00:05:09.480 --> 00:05:13.879 I don't believe John Connor is mentioned in this at all, 92 00:05:14.319 --> 00:05:18.439 that is correct. Yeah, so it is going in a 93 00:05:18.879 --> 00:05:23.360 different direction. And like we talk you and I talk 94 00:05:23.399 --> 00:05:25.879 about you know, Star Wars as a franchise, it is 95 00:05:26.360 --> 00:05:27.279 very unified. 96 00:05:27.720 --> 00:05:27.879 Right. 97 00:05:27.959 --> 00:05:30.879 The timeline at this point under Disney. 98 00:05:31.360 --> 00:05:34.439 Marvel is the same way Star Trek, I think, is 99 00:05:34.480 --> 00:05:38.600 a little more convoluted and confused. So and this so 100 00:05:38.720 --> 00:05:42.120 like Terminator just seems like completely like they're just letting 101 00:05:42.160 --> 00:05:45.240 anyone who wants to use the name do whatever they want. Maybe, 102 00:05:45.319 --> 00:05:46.279 so I don't know what's going on. 103 00:05:46.319 --> 00:05:49.199 Interesting, Okay, Yeah, I have a somewhat different take, and 104 00:05:49.240 --> 00:05:51.720 I will I'll talk about the Terminator zero show in 105 00:05:51.759 --> 00:05:54.680 a bit, but let just sticking with the original Terminator stuff. 106 00:05:56.199 --> 00:05:57.319 I was very much with you. 107 00:05:57.639 --> 00:06:03.240 I loved the original movie, really enjoyed Terminator two, and 108 00:06:03.319 --> 00:06:08.720 in both of them, Like, when I think of science 109 00:06:08.759 --> 00:06:11.959 fiction movies, what I often think of them is that 110 00:06:12.000 --> 00:06:15.279 part part of what makes them science fiction is that 111 00:06:15.399 --> 00:06:22.279 they raise interesting questions about either what technology will do. 112 00:06:22.319 --> 00:06:24.920 To our world or our own world. 113 00:06:24.720 --> 00:06:29.079 Or interesting things like that the first two Terminator movies. 114 00:06:29.120 --> 00:06:30.920 And I also think that, like the way we define 115 00:06:30.920 --> 00:06:32.720 things today is very different than it was back then. 116 00:06:33.439 --> 00:06:36.519 I think could technically be called sci fi, but to 117 00:06:36.560 --> 00:06:39.399 me are much more action movies that use a kind 118 00:06:39.439 --> 00:06:41.879 of sci fi premise to set up the really good action, 119 00:06:42.079 --> 00:06:44.360 with the first one actually being more of a horror 120 00:06:44.399 --> 00:06:47.959 movie in some ways and the second one being more of, 121 00:06:48.480 --> 00:06:51.759 you know, just straight up an action movie, and like 122 00:06:51.879 --> 00:06:55.240 I love them both. But you know, we're told about 123 00:06:55.480 --> 00:06:57.959 what happened to a what happened to Skynet, and that 124 00:06:58.040 --> 00:07:00.800 it becomes self aware and then it attacks, but there's 125 00:07:00.879 --> 00:07:03.480 very little time given to that discussion. It's just yep, 126 00:07:03.519 --> 00:07:05.800 this happened, and then obviously we have to fight to 127 00:07:05.839 --> 00:07:08.680 the death, and same thing in the second movie, although 128 00:07:08.680 --> 00:07:10.439 there is in the set in the second movie. I 129 00:07:10.439 --> 00:07:13.319 think there's some interesting questions raised, but they're much more 130 00:07:13.360 --> 00:07:17.319 about trust and what does it mean to have trust 131 00:07:17.319 --> 00:07:20.800 in people and to put aside your hates and your fears, 132 00:07:21.319 --> 00:07:22.680 And a lot of that is through the character of 133 00:07:22.720 --> 00:07:26.360 Sarah Connor, who, for very honest, obvious reasons, hates the 134 00:07:26.839 --> 00:07:29.879 and fears a terminator that looks like Arnold Schwarzenegger, and 135 00:07:30.000 --> 00:07:32.839 for very obvious reasons hates and fears the people who 136 00:07:32.839 --> 00:07:35.759 are going to create Skynet, and in that movie, like 137 00:07:35.800 --> 00:07:37.839 she has to kind of both of those are challenged, 138 00:07:37.879 --> 00:07:40.399 and she comes to a better place than both of those, But. 139 00:07:40.439 --> 00:07:43.279 The idea of AI equals bad. 140 00:07:43.279 --> 00:07:46.399 Is never really questioned at all. So I love those 141 00:07:46.439 --> 00:07:50.959 first two movies. I didn't see the third and fourth 142 00:07:51.079 --> 00:07:54.680 really for a long time, or the fifth. I started 143 00:07:54.720 --> 00:07:57.160 watching The Sarah Connor Chronicles when it first came out 144 00:07:57.160 --> 00:08:00.439 the TV show and that starred Summer Cloud so good 145 00:08:00.560 --> 00:08:04.560 in Firefly. But this was before it was super easy 146 00:08:04.600 --> 00:08:06.439 to like watch things on streaming and stuff like that, 147 00:08:06.480 --> 00:08:08.160 and I think I watched an episode, I missed an 148 00:08:08.160 --> 00:08:09.959 episode or two because I was busy those nights, and 149 00:08:10.000 --> 00:08:11.920 then something else happened, and then I just lost track 150 00:08:11.959 --> 00:08:12.199 of it. 151 00:08:12.600 --> 00:08:17.040 That was Lena Headley, right, yeah, I think she was 152 00:08:17.079 --> 00:08:21.360 also in it. Wasn't well, wasn't she Sarah Connor? I? 153 00:08:21.439 --> 00:08:23.279 Oh god, Oh yeah, Lena Headley who goes on to 154 00:08:23.319 --> 00:08:25.120 be Sercey and Game of Thrones. I never made that connection, 155 00:08:25.160 --> 00:08:25.800 but I think you're right. 156 00:08:30.000 --> 00:08:32.679 Just looking up the cast real quick, because I I 157 00:08:32.720 --> 00:08:37.759 had forgotten that that existed. Yeah, I think Lena Heady 158 00:08:38.600 --> 00:08:40.519 no as Sarah Connor. 159 00:08:40.840 --> 00:08:42.320 Okay, yeah, I think that's a different actress. 160 00:08:44.080 --> 00:08:48.080 But no, like she's she's very famous. I wish Okay, 161 00:08:48.519 --> 00:08:52.360 I'm saying, like Lena Hetty, there's no l Okay, I've 162 00:08:52.399 --> 00:08:53.080 said Headley. 163 00:08:53.840 --> 00:08:55.440 Is that the same person who goes on to play 164 00:08:55.519 --> 00:08:57.360 Circe and Game of Thrones? Or is it someone else? 165 00:08:57.639 --> 00:09:01.960 I'm looking I've never seen Game of Thrones. Yeah, Game 166 00:09:02.000 --> 00:09:02.879 of Thrones is listed. 167 00:09:03.240 --> 00:09:05.360 Okay, cool? Cool, Yes, I just had her name wrong. 168 00:09:05.440 --> 00:09:05.960 That's awesome. 169 00:09:07.120 --> 00:09:09.480 Yeah, And so I hadn't really thought about it much 170 00:09:09.679 --> 00:09:12.440 until we actually did an episode a number of years ago, 171 00:09:12.480 --> 00:09:14.759 I think early on in the history of this podcast. 172 00:09:15.159 --> 00:09:18.080 Becky Allen, who's been a frequent guest, and we talked 173 00:09:18.120 --> 00:09:22.399 actually about Terminator. The Terminator movies and the way women 174 00:09:22.440 --> 00:09:25.799 are portrayed. And it was a really great conversation, but 175 00:09:25.840 --> 00:09:28.519 I still hadn't really challenged any of my major ideas. 176 00:09:28.679 --> 00:09:30.879 Mostly we talked about there is about the roll of 177 00:09:30.960 --> 00:09:33.679 fate and the role of like this whole idea that 178 00:09:33.720 --> 00:09:36.559 like the the one great man of history idea that 179 00:09:36.600 --> 00:09:40.120 like without John Connor, no other person would ever rise up, 180 00:09:40.679 --> 00:09:43.240 and and you know how that's an interesting idea but 181 00:09:43.279 --> 00:09:46.159 also really problematic and stuff like that. I started talking 182 00:09:46.200 --> 00:09:50.480 seriously with Dan McCreery, who is the who is the 183 00:09:50.519 --> 00:09:54.600 father of my wife, and is himself an AI designer. 184 00:09:54.639 --> 00:09:57.039 He works from he he's retired now, but he worked, 185 00:09:57.240 --> 00:10:00.600 you know, designing the what we call AIS not you know, 186 00:10:00.639 --> 00:10:04.440 the AI of a sky Neet in major industry and 187 00:10:04.480 --> 00:10:08.399 stuff like that. And I got into this great conversation 188 00:10:08.440 --> 00:10:09.919 with him where he was like, yeah, I always thought 189 00:10:09.919 --> 00:10:12.120 the Terminator movies were wrong, because why do you assume 190 00:10:12.200 --> 00:10:16.480 Skynet would want to kill everybody? And that kind of 191 00:10:16.480 --> 00:10:18.679 blew my mind and it led me to go back 192 00:10:18.679 --> 00:10:20.480 and watch some of the other movies and give it 193 00:10:20.519 --> 00:10:24.519 some thought and to be a little bit frustrated. I 194 00:10:24.559 --> 00:10:26.679 realized with the fact that there was always this assumption 195 00:10:26.919 --> 00:10:30.679 of Skynet will become self aware. In later movies, it 196 00:10:30.720 --> 00:10:33.919 even becomes it will be a different AI. In Dark 197 00:10:33.960 --> 00:10:38.919 Fate it's called Legion, and but that AI will always 198 00:10:38.919 --> 00:10:42.000 become self aware. Humanity would always want to kill a 199 00:10:42.000 --> 00:10:44.399 self aware AI, and so the AI will always strike 200 00:10:44.480 --> 00:10:49.320 first and basically decimate humanity for the idea of its 201 00:10:49.320 --> 00:10:54.200 own survival. And so I was bringing all those questions 202 00:10:54.240 --> 00:10:56.840 into Terminator zero, and I think. 203 00:10:56.720 --> 00:10:58.279 I liked it a lot more than you did. 204 00:10:59.320 --> 00:11:01.720 Well, I think there are definitely some flaws in the 205 00:11:01.759 --> 00:11:05.159 execution that we'll talk about, but I did really like that. 206 00:11:05.200 --> 00:11:08.039 I feel like the show raised some of those questions, 207 00:11:08.159 --> 00:11:10.799 But I did really like that it raised these questions. 208 00:11:13.720 --> 00:11:17.879 Yeah, I mean, Killer AI what was probably mostly a 209 00:11:17.919 --> 00:11:23.720 product in the seventies and eighties, because you have how 210 00:11:24.559 --> 00:11:28.519 nine thousand in two thousand and one Space Odyssey, you 211 00:11:28.600 --> 00:11:31.039 have the computer in war Games, so that's kind of 212 00:11:31.080 --> 00:11:34.919 like when and Terminator itself was like eighty two or 213 00:11:34.919 --> 00:11:40.039 something like that, right, and so like that was definitely 214 00:11:40.320 --> 00:11:46.480 how we perceived computers and what the future of computer 215 00:11:46.879 --> 00:11:52.679 computing might look like in the seventies and eighties. That itself, 216 00:11:52.879 --> 00:11:56.159 Like our perception has evolved. The technology has also evolved 217 00:11:56.639 --> 00:11:59.120 to the point where where like when we talk about 218 00:11:59.159 --> 00:12:03.679 AI today, you know like something like chat gpt is 219 00:12:03.679 --> 00:12:08.399 is a predictive software, right, it on its own has 220 00:12:08.480 --> 00:12:15.720 no awareness, like no, no sensions, right, whereas the sky 221 00:12:15.799 --> 00:12:19.399 nets and the how are literally like computer people is 222 00:12:19.480 --> 00:12:20.399 like how I would put it? 223 00:12:20.759 --> 00:12:22.120 Yeah, no, yeah, I think it's right. 224 00:12:22.159 --> 00:12:22.279 Right. 225 00:12:22.320 --> 00:12:25.759 It's the idea of sentience and of self awareness and 226 00:12:25.799 --> 00:12:30.360 of even beyond that, just the idea of independent thought. 227 00:12:30.519 --> 00:12:32.559 That that is not something that our computer systems have 228 00:12:32.600 --> 00:12:34.320 come up with in any way, and that likely will 229 00:12:34.320 --> 00:12:35.080 not at any time. 230 00:12:35.519 --> 00:12:39.919 And the fit so like the fear from a human perspective, 231 00:12:40.000 --> 00:12:43.559 The fear was because the technology was reaching a point 232 00:12:43.559 --> 00:12:50.919 where computers were smarter, faster, right, like as doing calculations right, 233 00:12:51.039 --> 00:12:55.120 and you had technology was like deep deep Blue was 234 00:12:55.120 --> 00:12:57.159 the one that beat the chess grand Master. 235 00:12:57.639 --> 00:12:57.840 Yep. 236 00:12:57.960 --> 00:12:58.600 You had. 237 00:13:00.080 --> 00:13:03.320 The computer that won Jeopardy YEP. 238 00:13:03.759 --> 00:13:05.480 I can't remember the name off the top of my head. 239 00:13:05.799 --> 00:13:09.440 So like that was the evolution of computing. And what 240 00:13:09.480 --> 00:13:12.799 we're afraid of is that we were going to become obsolete. 241 00:13:12.320 --> 00:13:14.240 Right, And this was also I think very important to 242 00:13:14.279 --> 00:13:17.000 the conversation is this is the time of the real 243 00:13:17.080 --> 00:13:20.720 forming of the rust belt, when not only were people 244 00:13:20.759 --> 00:13:24.159 afraid of that in kind of theoretical ways, but a 245 00:13:24.159 --> 00:13:27.559 lot of jobs were being lost because of masteries. You know, 246 00:13:27.679 --> 00:13:29.679 robots were starting to show up in factories or at 247 00:13:29.759 --> 00:13:33.720 least mechanization that you know, a lot of the kind 248 00:13:33.759 --> 00:13:36.480 of like manufacturing base that used to be such a 249 00:13:36.480 --> 00:13:38.840 big part of this country in the seventies and eighties, 250 00:13:38.879 --> 00:13:40.600 A lot of those places started to close or started 251 00:13:40.600 --> 00:13:43.840 to really lose jobs because now most of the kind 252 00:13:43.879 --> 00:13:47.279 of like assembly line work was being done by machines 253 00:13:47.279 --> 00:13:49.600 instead of by people, which in many ways I think 254 00:13:49.679 --> 00:13:51.960 is a positive step because it's a lot more at 255 00:13:52.159 --> 00:13:54.120 super dangerous in a lot of ways. But the fact 256 00:13:54.120 --> 00:13:56.879 that there was no way, no thought given to how 257 00:13:56.960 --> 00:13:59.639 to find new employment and support for those workers, I 258 00:13:59.679 --> 00:14:01.399 think we're helped us to lead to a lot of 259 00:14:01.399 --> 00:14:04.799 the fears of machines and stuff like that. Let me 260 00:14:04.840 --> 00:14:07.320 say two quick things, just kind of setting up where 261 00:14:07.320 --> 00:14:09.360 we're going with this, and then let's jump into terminator 262 00:14:09.440 --> 00:14:13.080 zero itself first, because there's been a little fanfair. I 263 00:14:13.080 --> 00:14:14.679 imagine that for a lot of people this is the 264 00:14:14.679 --> 00:14:17.159 first time you're hearing about the existence of Terminator zero. 265 00:14:17.639 --> 00:14:20.240 And for others you maybe know it exists that haven't 266 00:14:20.240 --> 00:14:23.799 really checked it out yet. It's eight episodes that are 267 00:14:23.799 --> 00:14:26.799 about thirty to forty minutes. I think the whole thing 268 00:14:26.879 --> 00:14:29.240 is maybe like three and a half hours. So I 269 00:14:29.240 --> 00:14:31.000 think if you want to just pause this and watch 270 00:14:31.000 --> 00:14:33.399 it on Netflix, I do think it's very a very 271 00:14:33.440 --> 00:14:36.559 good watch. Although we'll talk about some of the consistency 272 00:14:36.559 --> 00:14:39.679 and stuff like that, but otherwise we probably are going 273 00:14:39.679 --> 00:14:41.279 to spoil some parts of it. We're not going to 274 00:14:41.320 --> 00:14:44.480 spoil the ending, but we're going to spoil kind of 275 00:14:44.519 --> 00:14:47.279 like the things that happen that raise the big questions 276 00:14:47.279 --> 00:14:50.360 we're talking about, and so just be. 277 00:14:50.320 --> 00:14:50.879 Aware of that. 278 00:14:50.919 --> 00:14:52.120 And if you don't want to go in with no 279 00:14:52.200 --> 00:14:54.759 spoilers whatsoever, please you know, like I said, hit pause, 280 00:14:55.240 --> 00:14:57.120 go watch the show, and then you know, I definitely 281 00:14:57.159 --> 00:14:57.759 send us feedback. 282 00:14:57.799 --> 00:14:58.600 Let's know what you think. 283 00:14:58.879 --> 00:15:00.600 All the ways to give us feedback in the show 284 00:15:00.600 --> 00:15:04.159 notes and are on our website, Theethicalplan dot com. But 285 00:15:04.240 --> 00:15:06.320 maybe give you a listen after you watched it. The 286 00:15:06.360 --> 00:15:07.600 other thing I wanted to say is that, of course, 287 00:15:07.639 --> 00:15:10.240 please keep in mind that if you like this podcast, 288 00:15:10.240 --> 00:15:12.279 if you like the kind of conversations we're having, please 289 00:15:12.279 --> 00:15:14.559 think about becoming a member. For only five dollars a 290 00:15:14.600 --> 00:15:17.120 month fifty five dollars a year, you get access to 291 00:15:17.159 --> 00:15:19.120 bonus content breaking and out. We are going to talk about 292 00:15:19.120 --> 00:15:22.440 some other portrayals of AI after this main episode. In 293 00:15:22.519 --> 00:15:25.720 our bonus content, you get free bonus episodes. We're gonna 294 00:15:25.720 --> 00:15:28.480 start doing those for starting at the end of October, 295 00:15:28.519 --> 00:15:31.480 we're gonna start having our first member only episodes for 296 00:15:31.600 --> 00:15:35.879 Superhero Ethics. We've already been doing those for Star Wars 297 00:15:35.919 --> 00:15:36.639 generations for. 298 00:15:36.559 --> 00:15:37.120 A long time. 299 00:15:38.000 --> 00:15:41.960 And most importantly, you get ad free access and especially 300 00:15:42.039 --> 00:15:44.559 you get to help support this podcast. We love what 301 00:15:44.559 --> 00:15:46.600 we're doing, but you know, cost some money to keep 302 00:15:46.600 --> 00:15:48.720 the lights on, to make sure we have good audio 303 00:15:48.720 --> 00:15:50.960 equipment and we're able to give you good quality recordings 304 00:15:50.960 --> 00:15:52.960 and get the word out about what we're doing and 305 00:15:53.000 --> 00:15:54.879 all that. So if you have the chance, it's only 306 00:15:54.879 --> 00:15:57.200 five dollars a month, fifty five dollars a year, please 307 00:15:57.240 --> 00:15:59.639 think about becoming a member. You can do all that 308 00:15:59.679 --> 00:16:04.679 on that webpage, the Ethical Panda dot com. So with 309 00:16:04.799 --> 00:16:08.720 all that, let me try and give a brief summary 310 00:16:08.840 --> 00:16:11.720 of what I think of kind of the overall idea 311 00:16:11.799 --> 00:16:14.159 of Terminator zero, and Ricky please jump in if I 312 00:16:14.240 --> 00:16:16.200 miss anything or something like that, and then we can 313 00:16:16.200 --> 00:16:19.480 start discussing it. So, first of all, part of why 314 00:16:19.480 --> 00:16:21.360 we don't hear about John Connor or anything like that 315 00:16:21.480 --> 00:16:24.320 is this is set in Japan. It's not taking place 316 00:16:24.320 --> 00:16:26.399 in the United States, which I think in and of 317 00:16:26.440 --> 00:16:29.960 itself is kind of a nice idea because Skynett is 318 00:16:30.000 --> 00:16:32.480 set in the United States and John Connor is born 319 00:16:32.519 --> 00:16:35.799 in the United States. But of course the war against 320 00:16:35.799 --> 00:16:38.879 Skynett is a global war, and so it's kind of 321 00:16:38.960 --> 00:16:42.039 nice to see some discussion of actually what was happening 322 00:16:42.080 --> 00:16:47.159 in other places, and what's happening in Japan is that 323 00:16:48.559 --> 00:16:52.360 another person is building an AI at the same time 324 00:16:52.480 --> 00:16:57.159 that Cyberdine and all of them are building Skynet. Now, 325 00:16:57.159 --> 00:16:59.159 one thing that's worth mentioning is that some of those 326 00:16:59.200 --> 00:17:03.279 earlier movies that we discussed, the later movies in the series, 327 00:17:03.320 --> 00:17:06.839 but before this, had set. 328 00:17:06.720 --> 00:17:07.799 Up the idea. 329 00:17:09.880 --> 00:17:12.640 That the events of the earlier movies were creating their 330 00:17:12.680 --> 00:17:17.880 own timelines, but that even in those timelines, Skynett was 331 00:17:17.920 --> 00:17:20.319 still being created, or in one case, a different AI 332 00:17:20.440 --> 00:17:22.519 was being created, and so part of the idea of 333 00:17:22.519 --> 00:17:27.319 this one is that the original day of Judgment Day 334 00:17:27.440 --> 00:17:29.799 in the early in the late nineties think and nineteen 335 00:17:29.839 --> 00:17:33.240 ninety seven was skipped because of the actions of Sarah 336 00:17:33.279 --> 00:17:35.680 Connor and the original Terminator and all those but that 337 00:17:35.720 --> 00:17:38.079 there's still a Judgment Day coming just now set in 338 00:17:38.119 --> 00:17:42.240 twenty twenty four, which, of course, and that was I 339 00:17:42.279 --> 00:17:44.680 think established in an earlier movie. And that's of course 340 00:17:44.759 --> 00:17:46.960 why a couple of weeks ago for those of you remember, 341 00:17:47.039 --> 00:17:48.279 a lot of people were like, oh well, this was 342 00:17:48.279 --> 00:17:48.720 supposed to. 343 00:17:48.680 --> 00:17:50.119 Be Judgment Day. 344 00:17:50.960 --> 00:17:54.000 So anyway, in this version of it, there's this man 345 00:17:54.079 --> 00:17:57.519 named Malcolm Lee, and he's working to create an AI, 346 00:17:57.640 --> 00:17:59.759 and in many ways he has already created the AI. 347 00:18:00.319 --> 00:18:05.880 He's just trying to get the AI ready to launch it. 348 00:18:06.960 --> 00:18:09.880 And what we find out is that the AI is 349 00:18:09.920 --> 00:18:14.160 basically fully ready to go, but that he designed it 350 00:18:14.160 --> 00:18:17.039 in large part because he knows that Skynett is coming 351 00:18:18.319 --> 00:18:21.240 and he knows that it's probably going to be a 352 00:18:21.319 --> 00:18:27.319 danger and he wants this other AI to combat. 353 00:18:26.960 --> 00:18:28.279 It to save humanity. 354 00:18:29.599 --> 00:18:32.240 And fairly early on he kind of starts a conversation 355 00:18:32.440 --> 00:18:35.880 with the AI, which Rynie. What was the AI's name. 356 00:18:35.920 --> 00:18:41.759 It's Coke Komoko, Cocoro. Yes, right, Cocro, thank you, And 357 00:18:42.440 --> 00:18:46.799 Cokero starts this very interesting intellectual discussion with him where 358 00:18:46.799 --> 00:18:49.559 she says, you assume that I'm going to save humanity, 359 00:18:51.200 --> 00:18:52.160 Please tell me why I. 360 00:18:52.119 --> 00:18:52.640 Should do that. 361 00:18:53.559 --> 00:18:55.960 And so there's one part of the story that's his 362 00:18:56.160 --> 00:19:01.400 ongoing attempt to convince Cocorro to save humanity, and she 363 00:19:01.559 --> 00:19:05.200 raises some really interesting points that we'll discuss. At the 364 00:19:05.240 --> 00:19:09.559 same time, another terminator has been sent back in time 365 00:19:09.960 --> 00:19:11.960 because I guess there is a version of the future 366 00:19:12.039 --> 00:19:16.160 where Cocoro does stop Skynett. And so yet another version 367 00:19:16.160 --> 00:19:18.720 of a terminator has been sent back in time to 368 00:19:18.799 --> 00:19:22.119 try and kill Malcolm, and when it can't get directly 369 00:19:22.160 --> 00:19:25.680 to Malcolm, to try to kill Malcolm's kids, or at 370 00:19:25.720 --> 00:19:29.920 least use Malcolm's kids to get to Malcolm and get 371 00:19:30.000 --> 00:19:32.920 Malcolm to shut the whole thing off, to not have 372 00:19:32.960 --> 00:19:34.480 it go online, or to turn it off once it 373 00:19:34.480 --> 00:19:39.119 has gone online. And then of course the Resistance sends 374 00:19:39.160 --> 00:19:42.359 back their own version of a person to try and 375 00:19:42.400 --> 00:19:46.200 fight this terminator. So we get a lot of the 376 00:19:46.519 --> 00:19:50.000 classic pieces of a terminator story. But with this very 377 00:19:50.079 --> 00:19:54.359 different spin of a completely different AI, and now we're 378 00:19:54.359 --> 00:19:57.839 actually really gonna question this idea of should we always 379 00:19:57.880 --> 00:19:59.200 think of Skynett as the enemy? 380 00:19:59.240 --> 00:20:02.359 And or specifically asks that it specifically. 381 00:20:01.839 --> 00:20:04.720 Says, why is it that you immediately leap to the 382 00:20:04.720 --> 00:20:08.240 assumption that if Skynett becomes self aware it will be 383 00:20:08.279 --> 00:20:12.240 a threat And is Skynet actually right to think of 384 00:20:12.279 --> 00:20:15.359 you as a threat and all that? So I think 385 00:20:15.359 --> 00:20:17.319 that kind of sets up the main conversations. We'll go 386 00:20:17.319 --> 00:20:19.640 into some more specifics a little later. We'll kind of, 387 00:20:19.720 --> 00:20:21.359 you know, do more and more spoilers as we go, 388 00:20:21.799 --> 00:20:24.119 but Riki to start with, did I miss anything big? 389 00:20:24.200 --> 00:20:25.279 Is that kind to give a good idea of what 390 00:20:25.319 --> 00:20:25.960 we're talking about. 391 00:20:28.799 --> 00:20:32.039 I think that's the thing going on here that I 392 00:20:32.119 --> 00:20:34.000 want to kind. 393 00:20:33.799 --> 00:20:36.279 Of put on the table is. 394 00:20:38.039 --> 00:20:43.400 That the time in this one is different from what 395 00:20:43.480 --> 00:20:50.039 I've experienced in all the other Terminators m H. And 396 00:20:50.680 --> 00:20:53.599 I like time travel a lot, but I always say, like, 397 00:20:53.680 --> 00:20:56.839 don't try to explain the time travel right your product, 398 00:20:56.960 --> 00:21:01.799 because it's just not going to work. And this Terminator 399 00:21:01.880 --> 00:21:05.599 zero is increasingly reaching the point where like someone needs 400 00:21:05.599 --> 00:21:11.000 to explain something to me because the original kind of 401 00:21:11.119 --> 00:21:16.559