Speaker 1: Meaning a life.
Speaker 2: Man like this man you letting butterfly flapping his wings
big down into the forest. Man, it's gonna cause the
tree fold letting five thousand way nobody see nobody.
Speaker 3: You don't need no man.
Speaker 1: Gonna like you mother schore man.
Speaker 2: And you got like like that sto win man or
like a thing on pan on right man, you don't
don't matter man.
Speaker 1: All right, equas welcome back to the Jay Burden Show.
How you doing, man?
Speaker 3: Hey man? Doing good?
Speaker 2: This?
Speaker 3: How many times is this? Oh wait a minute, no.
Speaker 1: Officially or how many times have you and I talked?
Because number yeah, I think I've told the story of
the the Missing Pete episode before. It was uh, kind
of a confluence of a spicy topic and just wrap
it on set early dementia for me. And so the
combination of not a particularly stellar performance from your host
and having to do enough editing to get that to
stay up, I was basically left with a not particularly
impressive thirty five minutes and so I was like, all right,
you know what, I'd rather have you on and be
able to post it than have to chop something up.
But yeah, man, I'm really glad to have you back on.
Speaker 3: Cool. Yeah, I can't believe it was twenty five minutes
you had to get rid of That's just so awesome.
Just chalk chalk another one up on my resume.
Speaker 1: Yeah, fair enough. So you and I have been We've
recorded a decent amount together with our mutual friends Stormy
Astral and Thomas and of course I'll make sure to
link to the inquisition down in the description. But one
of the things that we have been talking about in
a group, it's basically, how should the radical right wing
relate to Donald Trump? Because and I don't want to
turn this into a discussion of drama, but as I'm
sure you're no doubt well aware, the reactions to the
president have been highly variable, right. You have, of course,
the MAGA wing basically championing him as the you know,
the the next Messiah. You know, you have the kind
of black pill brigrade, which is, you know, unsatisfied with
no matter what Trump delivers. And I think that you
and I have a much more measured view of it.
So I'm curious, right in the in the broadest possible sense,
what's your opinion on Trump and really what's been happening
since his election?
Speaker 3: Well, I mean, I guess you have to start with
the picks, because that was the first thing that started
people into separating into camps. So, you know, he picked
somebody who said something nice about Israel once. Some people
don't like that, some people are fine with it. He
picked someone who was going on and on and on
about our greatest ally and how you know if we
if you don't exist, we don't exist. Well, I mean, yeah,
everyone's going to be up in arms over that one.
But the way I look at politics is you just
have to take a nuanced approach about it. And if
you're a one a one issue vote, a one issue person.
I'm not even going to say one issue voter, because
I'm sure a lot of the people who have opinions
about this didn't even vote. But if your one issue
is something that is just not going to be cleared
up anytime soon, as my friend Tommy Simmons says, is
probably going to be the final boss, then you're just
going to be black built. And I think there are
enough people who basically created a basically built an audience
around nothing is going to change. Oh no, wait a minute, No,
nothing's going to change now, It'll change in the future.
I'm white. I'm black pilled short term, And I used
to say that, and then I thought about it, and
I'm like, well, then what am I going to see
If I'm black pilled in the short term but white
piled in the long term? How does that play out?
Is it like, is it going to be little little
victories along the way that I'm not allowed to celebrate
because I'm black pilled, or is it going to be
little victories along the way that I might celebrate. Then
it turns out it wasn't a win at all, So
then I get I have egg on my face because
which I don't care about. I've been wrong many many times.
I'll be wrong again. I'll have to do a man
kulpa sort of like Curtis Yarvin did in his most
recent article where he came out and basically said, yeah,
basically I was wrong, but yeah, I mean I the
way I look at it is people have just broken
up into The big difference that I see is there's
like three groups. There's the one group that's like takes
a nuanced approach and looks and goes, Okay, we can
build on this. This is good for our people. J
sixers are out of prison. You know, a lot of
these executive orders are are really good, and you know,
stuff that we can build upon, and then you have
people who are completely black pilled, like nothing ever is
going to change and you're just coping if you if
you see any anything good in Trump, and you have
the ones who just see our greatest ally is their
greatest enemy and that's the only thing that they can
sperg about all day. And so they're not going to
they're not going to see any good in anything. So
they're not even black pilled. They're just like they're so
focused on just one thing that like they can't get
out of their way and they can't think, they can't
rationalize or nuance anything, and they're thinking that could possibly
be good for the future.
Speaker 1: I think you're you're completely right there. The thing to
me is, look, I had very very limited expectations of Trump, right.
You know, there are certainly people who claim things would
be different in this time. But and this is something
that you know, Thomas and I have been talking about
for months now, right that it's a very real possibility
that second term Trump will be the same as first
term Trump, right, which is we'll get a few wins
nothing major. We'll get a lot of noise, but nothing
really changes. And you know, till a few weeks ago,
that was a pretty reasonable position. I certainly hoped for
something more to happen, but I was cautiously optimistic. Great,
it seems like, generally speaking, trends continue, and that was
very much not what happened. And you know, with this
rash of executive orders, we basically got I mean, we
basically got our Bengo carts cleared out right, not just
one row, but like the whole thing, you know, everything
you could have asked for. You know, you recently spoke
to Tom Woods about the release of Russ Albert, which
is absurd, Like, no one thought that was gonna happen.
Everyone thought that was the most absurd libertarian pipe dream, right,
that guy's gonna ruck.
Speaker 3: Let me let me just interrupt you there for a second.
I mean, I've known his mom for like ten years now,
you know, I used to have his mom on the
show all the time, and my take on it was always, yeah,
he might have done some really really bad stuff. But
the court case was a complete joke. And then you
find out that the judge was like mentioning the fact
that he was white, and she would have to take
into consideration if he was a black guy from the Bronx,
she would be treating him differently. And when you find
out that, you're like, oh, okay, so he's just another
victim of all this. And then for those who don't
know about the case, Chuck Schumer put this all together.
This was all designed by Chuck Schumer and the Southern
District and the Southern District of New York. So yeah,
I told Tom that I remember being in New Hampshire
in twenty nineteen. I was speaking up there and I
was talking to her and I was like looking at
her dead in the eye, and my only thought was
is that this woman is going to die trying to
get her son out of prison, and her son is
going to be in prison for the rest of his life.
So seeing, you know, Ross walk the pictures of Ross
walking out of jail, that was just I mean, I
can't believe it, you know. And people can say whatever
they want about what he did. The thing is there
are people who get who murder people and do less
time than he's actually done. So if people could say, oh,
well he deserved his sentence, who deserves their sentence. What
is the proper sentence for facilitating drug dealing? What's the
proper sentence for murder? What's the proper sentence for theft?
What are you talking about? What are you talking about?
You're defending the fucking regime. Now, No, it's what is
the proper We have to figure this out. We have
to blow this all up, and we have to figure out. Okay,
so if someone's facilitating drugs, drug dealing, and you know,
basically I think one of his biggest, biggest crimes was
using bitcoin. He made bitcoin popular. He was one of
the people who made bitcoin popular. They see it as
a threat kind of. So yeah, I mean, just the
fact that Trump did this and that he kept his
promise to a bunch of libertarians where he could have
just all of them screw you, you have no power,
you're nothing. I mean, it's just it's wild, it's complex.
I mean, you could expect that he was going to
do the j sex guys, they get all the JA
sex people, but that he would do that and that
he would actually keep his promise on it, Well, maybe
he'll keep his promise on other stuff. Who knows well.
Speaker 1: And and to mention someone, we've talked about earlier, right,
Curtis Yarbin, he had a very neat formula for what
a you know, political win was right. You know, it's
something that increases your power decreases your enemy's power. Right,
And look, obviously there's still court cases happening, but the
very very simple fact that Ice has been let off
the leash. Right, they're allowed to arrest illegals in you know,
in churches and hospitals, schools. Well, which direction does that
blow it? Similarly, right, they've been given a quota, right,
you need to deport this many people a day. And again,
look like the country is, as of current writing, still
in dire straits. But you know, primarily we are concerned
with trend lines, and this is you know, a radical change,
radical change in direction. You know. One of the other
things I think about, right, and I may have mentioned
this in our most recent episode of the Inquisition, is uh,
you know, what is a good deal with a political leader? Like,
what do you want? Because and I'd love to be
wrong here, I don't really see you know, a Marcus
Aurelius figure, right, a wise, scholarly ruler, you know, a
warrior poet all at once in our future. Again, I'd
love to be wrong, but I think it's really reasonable
to expect someone in power who one doesn't hate you
and two as you're at least to a bare minimum
best interest in mind. And obviously you and I may
have really no interaction with the government. But when I
look at the people who are our proxies, like the
j sixers, like the twenty people convicted for praying up
side of abortion clinics who all got pardoned, Well, guess what.
That's rewarding your friends, right, rewarding Crump's friends, rewarding our friends.
And alternately the Ice decision, you know, the going after
the federal workers, that's punishing our enemies. And again it's
not based world, but it's a whole lot better than
how things would be in any you know, conceivable alternative reality.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I think one of the one of the criticisms
is that this is being driven by like big tech
guys or you know, elites, which it always is. Yeah,
the question comes down to do those what do those
elites hate you? Another good question is, if they're doing this,
they're doing it for self interest, does their self interest
line up with your interest at all? It really appears
to me, like even people who would have been complete
against Trump, and I know for a fact there but
people who are completely against Trump in his first term
have done a one to eighty and completely gone with Trump.
And I think the reason why is that they see
that if change isn't made, their lives are going to
be worse, and they don't want their lives to be worse.
So if they don't want their lives to be worse,
what's being then you have to examine what exactly is
being done? What have they been their recommendations, what do
they want to see done that would make their lives better?
And the only question you have to ask after that
is does it make my life better? Does their vision
make my life better? And I would say from what
we've seen so far, yeah, And I'll mention the Spergs
again because I always do, is nothing's going to make
them happy. Nothing is going to make them happy. And
the reason I say nothing is going to make them
happy because the ones specifically talking about what they want
they're never going to get, not in their lifetime. Maybe
something you know down the road, but nothing's going to
happen in their lifetime. So this is their this is
their existence so I've taken to liberally just blocking people.
I mean, I can't. It's there's too much. I mean,
Trump just announced today and this was after speaking to
bu Kelly. I don't know, you know, anybody else has
put this together. He speaks to bo Kelly and he
was talking to other countries about paying to take our prisoners.
And I'm assuming when he talked to bo Kelly and
maybe talked to Eric Prince, He's like, we got on
tanam Obey. You know, if we have these if we
have these violent, insanely violent illegals here, then we need
to put them somewhere. If their countries don't want to
take them back, what do we do with them? And
he's talking about a facility that'll hold thirty thousand on
one ton of obey what I mean just stop for second,
Stop for a second and think about any president in
the last whenever, who would who's saying something like that,
who's coming that those words are coming out of his mouth?
Not a proxy. He's going out there and saying, yeah,
you know, we got this facility. It's on an island.
You know, we can have them. Maybe we can have them.
He didn't say this, but I'm like I'm thinking, man,
get them growing, get them growing tobacco. Cuban cigars are
back on the menu. I mean, this is this is
a beautiful thing. When would you ever think you would
hear that. But then again, you're going to have people
who are out there who this is all a trap. Man,
It's leading us to a trap. There's a trap at
the end of this. It's a trap at the end
of politics, went of politics everywhere in the trap is
you're not going to get everything you want unless you
become powerful and you become king and you go and
do what he's doing, or you become an elite, you
finance something like this. You're not going to get what
you're so just be miserable.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's one of the other things. And this is
kind of this has kind of gone under the radar.
Is uh did you see Trump pulling out his inner
mold bug where he's basically said he's going to offer
an early retirement option for federal employees, basically pay them
out as long as they promised never to work for
the Feds again. Did he notice that?
Speaker 3: Yeah? I saw that. That's yeah. I think they said,
like originally the idea would be like for four years,
give him like the the whole length of whatever term
or something like that. Are you paying him for four
years and he's saying eight months. But I think at
this point, especially if you offer to pay all that upfront,
I think people will take it. I think. I mean,
I know this is anecdotal, but I'm hearing it from
enough people that they know people who are just quitting
their federal employees. They've been working from home for four
years now, and they either don't want to go back
into the office or they don't want to go back
into an office where Trump's that portrait of Trump, which
was done purposely so it could sit there and ship
lips could look at it and have to look at
it all day when he sent them back to work.
And these people aren't going back to work. So you know,
I think, yeah, I always said that I've been saying
for a while, for at least for a year now,
that they need to find the executive branch needs to
get rid of about two million employees, and it looks like,
you know, they could be on their way to that.
So yeah, and you know, if they want to stay,
make their lives miserable, and that's easy enough.
Speaker 1: To do well, definitely, and again with all of these,
at the very least, you have to admit that this
is a promising start, like this is much much more
than really anyone could have reasonably expected. And you know,
one of the things that I am, I'm always cautious of,
and maybe it's because I grew up during the during
the George Bush era, right, is you know being folded
back in? Right, You've read Kazinskip and you know the
system's greatest trick, what you know Uncle Ted describes is
the process by which you know, dissidents are tricked into
reforming the system, right, that they will make it more efficient,
And I certainly one think there's some risk of that, Right,
that's a real problem. But also is it containment if
you're getting what you want right, Okay, you don't literally
get to change. Maybe you know that the people in
power the system more broadly, but is your primary issue
you know that things are being run very badly or
the system in and of itself needs to change, And
I at least have you know, complaints in both areas. Right,
I'm not a big fan of democracy, but I'd be
an idiot for looking a gift horse in the mouth
and deciding that, you know, I'm not going to accept
the positive benefits of democracy when it goes my way.
So I'm curious, do you think there's any risk of
sort of containment for the broader right?
Speaker 3: Well, I think one of the you know, when you
take his insk into account, you have to realize that
he wouldn't want He doesn't want the system to exist
at all. He wants to go back to the Bronze Age.
So when he's examining the system, you have to look
at it from that lens. Do we are we anarchists?
Then you have to ask a question, are we anarchists?
Are we looking to burn this all down with the
sure with the intention of having something better afterwards? Do
we have the power to build what's or have we
built what comes next?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 3: We have it. So Yeah. Most importantly I think is
more important than anything is what needs to be tore
down of those those myths. You know, I think there
are people out there who are doing really good work
to tear down the myth of World War Two. You
hear Trump referring to the New Deal he may have
called the New Deal collaborators. You know, Thomas talks about
the New Deal regime and the Nuremberg regime. So it's
obvious that somebody is in his ear putting this stuff,
putting putting this stuff into his head. I don't think
it's the system that we the physical system. I don't
think we're looking to tear down. I think we're looking
to tear down the philosophy. So if you tear down
the philosophy and it's replaced with something that it's more
amenable to you, that you know, you're, you're okay, you
can live with, well, then you know, I'm I'm fine
with that you're But you know, you're also going to
have to learn or your expectations because you're not going
to get the perfect you know, if Burnham has taught
us anything, it's that ideology. If you have a if
you have an ideology, it's it's not going to manifest
perfectly in in reality. So yeah, temper your expectations and
seek to you know, wish for, push for, do whatever
you can do, because I mean, it seems like some
people are being listened to. I mean you can hear
our guys echoed all over the place by people in power. Now,
then we should, you know, we should keep pushing, but
we need to decide what we're willing, what we're willing
to live with, because you're never going to have the
perfect It's all about trade offs.
Speaker 1: So when we when we spoke last, you were strongly
encouraging me to listen to an episode of The Tucker
Curls Show with Kurt Mills, and I did. I thought
it was really fascinating because look, you know, I've read
elite theory the same as anyone, and so that colors
a lot of my analysis, and I think incorrectly, my
mental model was there are two interest groups in the
Republican Party. There are tech bros and neocons in the
most disparaging use of that word you can imagine, right,
And what I realized, honestly, I should have realized this earlier,
but I finally kind of hit me like a bolt
from the blue the other day, was that this is
actually there are three camps here, right, And I don't
know what you want to call that third camp, right,
the America first camp, you know, the true Magabase or whatever.
But there are a number of people Carlson included. You know,
we could find some others who were much much closer
to us than either the tech bros and certainly the neocons,
and will certainly we can get some things we want
from the tech bros. Right, musk is, you know, not always,
but at least we'll say, you know, generally more aligned
with us than someone like Victoria Newland. This camp is
quite interesting, so in the interview, right, and I encourage
everyone go listen to it. It's possibly the most important
recording of twenty twenty five so far, all twenty nine
days of it. But effectively we have Tucker and Mills
going through neo con influence right, how they're trying to
worm their way into the Trump presidency, and over and
over and over again saying we need to fight these people.
I mean, about a third of it is directly going
after Barry Weiss, you know, saying she is basically at
organ of the Israeli government. And what's interesting, right is,
I'm sure you remember right when when Mike Pompeo was
was set to be, you know, brought into the government,
and Tucker allegedly, right according to rumor, basically called up
Trump and said, don't do it. Mike Pompeo is not
in the government. And to me, that article or that
you know audio file, which I highly recommend everyone listening to,
is basically him telling Donald Trump, you know, don't make
friends with Beebe, you know, and admittedly he goes through
the two have probably already started a feud, you know,
don't listen to these crazy neocons. And that is the
one big thing we need to fix. It's actually a
very good history of the neo conservative movement, and to me,
that third group of elites is very very interesting, right.
I think that, you know, like you said earlier, we're
never going to get something perfect, but we've gone from
a party with basically one elite cast and an insurgency
to three different groups all vying for support. And I
mean that honestly reminds me quite a bit of what
Burnham says the ideal state is right, which is to
have multiple elite groups vying for your support. Admittedly, the
neocons don't seem to care what we think, but you
know what, I'll take two overnun Sorry, Pete, that was
a big rant for me. I'm curious what you think.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think I realized about a year and a
half ago, especially after October seventh, the way a lot
of things were being said on different podcasts, especially like
Judge Knapps show, that there was I realized at that time.
You know, we've had the neocons. I've known about them forever.
The tech bros. We were just figuring out, just starting
to talk about the paypalm mafia and everything. But then
there are these wasps, historic wasps families. You know, Tucker
Tucker's Tucker's wife, definitely, I mean, if anyone knows her family.
Douglas mc colonel McGregor is a you know, old school
WASP and and he's bringing all these old school wasp,
old school wasps in there. He's had an old school
WASP and at the Federal Reserve. Well he hasn't, but
there's been an old school WASP at the Federal Reserve.
I think he's seventh generation Virginian. Jerome Powell, Scott Bessant,
I mean, obviously there's a big problem with Scott Bessant.
He's like a ninth generation American and he's bringing all
these people in who are I don't think they're on
either of those sides, but I think they're more willing
to work with the PayPal mafia and the tech bros
Than they are with the neocons, because I think they've
seen that their power in the last hundred years has
been supplanted and stormy and I did an episode, the
three episodes on the robber Barons that tried to save America,
and when you look at those robber barons, it's all
basically wasp PERALTI. And when you look at what Powell
has done at the Federal Reserve, where he's basically gone
to war with the City of London and Davos for
the last three four years now seeking to destroy the Euro,
I think he's done a really good job, I think.
And a year ago the euro is at at buck
forty is at like one oh three. Now. My whole
childhood the British pound was that it was like it
was almost like pegged two dollars to a pound, and
it's down to like one ten now a dollar ten.
People don't realize this, and you know, if you really
want to, I can't break it down as well as
Tom Luongo. You can. So go listen to Tom Lawongo
Gold Goods and Guns podcast and he's been on my show,
so you can search and he breaks it down exactly
how he's been doing it. Destroying libor so you're bringing
the interest rates back home to this country. So we
make our own interest rates in London. And you're a
aren't you know, determining how much you're how much a
credit card you're borrowing in Texas is what the interest
rate it's going to be on it. Yeah, that was
all that had been all co opt co opted by Europe.
So you're seeing this war that's been happening for a
few years now, especially out of Powell, and you hear
it out of Jamie Diamond too at JP Morgan and Yeah,
the when I look at these groups and say there's three,
let's call it three groups, I see the wasps, I
see the neo cons, and I see you know, the
tech pros and the tech bros. And the wasps have
some crossover, you know, famously like Mark andresen Is. Uh,
it's from like a small town in Minnesota or Wisconsin
or something like that. The you know what you're it's
pretty obvious if you know what to look for, if
you just don't think there's this one group that has
all this power, they control everything. They're super they're superhumans,
and you know no one can, no one can touch
their power. Well, I think if you know, if you
stop being a neocon yourself, because that's a neocon thinking
and Zionist thinking, you will be able to see that
there are people who there are other groups who are
coming in and they're they want their they especially the
lost but elite, they want their power back.
Speaker 1: Well, this is something I've been really saying as long
as as I have a podcast, right that the power
is a brutal game. And one of the things I
just kept saying over and over again during the Biden
administration is like, the these people are playing the game badly, right.
They are not these kind of like hyper competent machiavelians.
They're just stupid. They're making bad mistakes. And that opens up,
you know, as we've seen an opportunity for someone to
to out maneuver them.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 1: I noticed an interesting report that came across my desk today.
Do you know what the disapproval rate for the Democratic
Party is right now?
Speaker 3: Or is there approval rating at like thirteen percent or
something like that.
Speaker 1: Yes, it's incredibly low, incredibly low, historically low. And look,
you'd think, right if we were running by the twenty
sixteen playbook that the public according to conventional wisdom says
it doesn't like when Donald Trump does radical, scary things, right,
like saying, you know, making you know, immigrants cry or whatever.
And that's not the case. The public at large seems
to be unbothered. Now, certainly some of that is due
to the fact that Trump has been normalized, right, we
can admit that. But I think another part of it
is that the left in this country has been in
charge and made an absolute hash of it, right, They've
They've really left the country in a shameful state. And
I was actually thinking about this the other day that
Joe Biden winning twenty twenty might have been the best
thing to ever happen to Donald Trump, right, both from
a narrative sense, both from an organizational sense, and also
from a a justification sense. Right that you come back
with a you know, a huge historic win off the
back of a very poorly managed country, and that gives
you the license to do truly radical, albeit necessary things.
Actually I took some flak for this, but you know,
I publicly said that, you know, we on the right,
oh Trump loyalty. I didn't say obedience writer, like, you know,
we don't you know, flop over and let him do
whatever he wants, but we do owe him a little
bit of loyalty because basically, right, like, what is the
political exchange you have with your leader? Right once, Well,
I give you, you know, my loyalty and you do
things for me. Okay, fair enough, that's pretty much the deal.
And you know, in the feudal the feudal system was
really simple. It was like, you give me fealty, I
protect you with my sword. Right, And this is you know,
a minor lely more complicated version of that. And in
this case, right, we've been handed this massive raft of wins.
You know, we've been handed all of these things. We've
had our friends pardoned, you know, we've had these you know,
plans enacted to do what we want. And I think that,
I mean, if there's any honor in this, we have
to hold up our edge of the bar. And look,
I realized Trump isn't going to be up for office again.
It's not like he needs our votes. But I think
that there is a reciprocal relationship there. And I think that,
you know, really the most exciting thing about Trump, or
one of the most exciting things about Trump, as he's
kind of returned us to a more honest form of politics,
at least on the right. The left has got this
forever right that we support someone because they give us stuff,
right patronage. But the right has been kind of like
fed this weak gruel that you know, we the best
we could ever get from our government is just to
leave us alone. No, I don't want to be left alone.
I want my friends rewarded and my enemies punished, right
like that very simple formula. And if that happens, well,
all right, I'll hold up my end of the bargain.
And I think that that's a difficult thing to say
as someone who's kind of labeled themselves as a dissident.
And obviously that's conditional. You know, he could do any
number of things to lose that loyalty, but until then,
like fair enough, he did it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, especially after four years. You know, you
mentioned the best thing that could happen with Trump losing
in twenty twenty. What you what you saw for four years?
And I think a lot of the a lot of
the spurgy ideologues don't realize this is that you basically
had no president. So you know what in a managerial
system like we've had for you know, one hundred years.
You know that the people who are unelected and you know,
elite or deep state, they they get their way. But
at least prior to that, there was the it appeared
that there was someone in charge. You had four years
of people who were paying attention just knowing that that
guy wasn't in charge, He wasn't making decisions. I mean,
look at all the pardons he handed it down at
the end. I mean with the exception and probably when
he pied a bart pardon his whole family, that was
probably Jill. I don't think he came into that decision.
I think she did it. The rest of those pardons,
j six Commission, all these come on, you think he
did this? That was just people walking in there and going, yeah,
this is what we're going to do here, here's a
crayon signed Joe. And you had people, I mean, the
pull out of Afghanistan, which was just a complete debacle,
had to be done, but it could have been done better.
You had the Ukraine War, and this is a war
that the neocons basically got the you know, forced Russia's hand.
And if you don't think that that that's possible, I
mean Brazinski in nineteen seventy nine, they were bragging about
how they got Russia to invade Afghanistan. I mean they
talk about this, I mean, what was the name of
his book, Grand Chess Board. They talk about how they
can just move people, They can put people into situations
where they forced them to act and do things that
they don't really want to do. I mean, if I
was putin I probably would have invaded in twenty fourteen.
But the after four years of seeing that no one
was in charge and basically you just had every interest
group that possibly could was running around and doing whatever
they wanted to do and getting things, getting things past,
taking money here. I mean, it's just it was just eluding.
Now you have someone in there who you know. Some
will say, oh, well, you know he marry a Maidelson
gave him a hundred million dollars, you know so well,
Timothy Mellon gave one hundred and seventy million, Elon must
give him two hundred and fifty million. I don't think
his loyalties are just to one group. So I think
it's better even if Trump is completely controlled, at least
there's somebody he's there and he appears to be in charge.
I don't think he's completely controlled. I think he can
be influenced by smart people. It's just a matter of
who are those people, who are they influencing. I mean,
people lost their minds when he said Marco Rubia was
going to be Secretary of State, and I thought about
it for a day and I said, well, if you're
going to have these mass deportations, you're going to have
to have someone who's going to have to be able
to go into Latin America and talk to these people,
and especially someone who it's communists. So Marco Rubio is
going to be the guy in Latin America. And what's
the first assignment he gets? Go to Panama. He's not
going and telling BB that you know, we support you
in whatever you do and everything. He's not even in
that in that section. He's not in that milieu. He
is doing what you know, a bunch of us we're
looking at for the last year and going on. I
think I see what's going on here, you know, And
I mean, I'm not going to break my hand pat
myself on the back, but I called a lot of
this and I and I took a lot of crap
along the way for it, and it seems like the
only people I continue to take crap from are the
people who are just completely black pilled, or they just
they have one enemy and they can't see it, and
they see red whenever that is brought up or whenever
they look at the United States government. But I mean,
we're what we're seeing now is we're seeing somebody who
at least when he's signing these executive orders, he's making
it the implication is, and sometimes he's outright saying it,
this is going to be good for the American people,
you know. And then you have someone like Tom Homan
running around. I wish he would you tell doctor Phil
to go do something else. But you have him running
around and saying, Okay, we're just arresting. You know. Everybody's like, well,
Obama deported more people than you know at this rate.
But he's just concentrating on the most the most violent people.
And you're you're seeing I'm already hearing again anecdotally, people
who are completely frightened that they are people they know
or people they know are completely frightened because they know
they're here illegally or they've over stayed their visa or whatever,
and they're going back They're just like, well, I mean,
it's gonna be better off if I do it on
my own. Then if you know, if I'm being forced
to do it, I'm being arrested to do it, arrested
and then thrown out of the country. Yeah, I don't.
I don't see anyone who can look put it this way,
anyone who is at this point their take on everything
that's happening is to find the negative in it, to
find like some grand conspiracy in it. I mean, I
just don't know. You know, if you honestly believe that,
I feel bad for you, because I mean, this is
just the kind of thinking that the negative thinking all
the time is probably affecting your health or you're selling
you're selling something, And I mean that's basically the way
I'm looking at everything right now.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm curious what do you make of Tucker right?
Because what I noticed and I recently had a long
drive and you know, I listened to a lot of
podcasts and he you know, I listened to the episode
I mentioned earlier and then another one with Matt taib
I believe is that, Look, he's not perfect, right, but
what is he doing right? He's platforming our friends, right, Darryl,
who's a mutual friend of both of us, he platformed him.
He is basically speaking on our behalf against the neo
cons and look, is he to my left on any
number of issues certainly, but like, what what does America
look like in a world where Sean Hannity is that popular? Right?
Is it better? And again this doesn't mean that, like
you know, a conservative talking point got a lot of
hits on YouTube next Stop Revolution, not at all, but
just to say that, I think he ot he occupies
a very interesting place in the media eco system.
Speaker 3: But back to you, Pete, Well, I think I've said
this recently when in Trump's first term, Trump would come
out during the day and he would say we're going
to do this, We're going to do that, and it
was just horrible what he wanted was planning on doing.
And Tucker would go on his show at night and
just criticize that and tear it a part of why
it was a bad idea and what eighty percent of
the time Trump would come the next day and we're
not doing that, Tucker is Tucker has an agenda. Is
whatever his agenda is, I would not be surprised if
Tucker has people I would not be, you know, like
I've said this about Colonel McGregor every time he goes
on Judge Judge Napps Show, I stop what I'm doing
when when that episode drops, because in my opinion, colonel
McGregor is putting out a message for somebody else, not
his message. It might be his message part of it,
but I believe he is transmitting information out there that
certain groups and certain interests want to get into the zeitgeist.
And I think Tucker is the same way, except I
think as the years have gone by, Tucker has drifted
further towards what we want than where he was and
when he was promoting the Iraq war, which he does,
you know, which he does man culpa, I mean almost.
It seems like every episode he brings up the fact
that I supported the Iraq war and I'm sorry I
was wrong, and you just don't see that. And when
has Sean Hannity come out and said I was wrong
on something. No, he's an actor. He's he's if somebody
isn't writing his lines for him, and then he's saying
whatever he thinks needs to be said at that time
to keep his position or to for his reputation or whatever,
and it seems like Tucker doesn't care anything about that.
And there are still going to be people who are
going to say, well, you know, if Tucker, if Tucker
is serving someone else and everything, you know, what do
we know about What do we know about that person?
I don't know. All you can do is judge a message.
And I don't know that there is much that I
disagree with Tucker. Sure, there are some things here and there.
I wish he was a little more Yeah, I mean
he's He's actually talked about wasps, He's used that terminology.
He's called himself a wasp. He's referred to himself as
a wasp. You know. I also happen to know that
Tucker has definitely listens to our Guys that I mean,
I've been told from a very reliable source that he
has listened to our Guys shows personally. It's not like
his producer is listening to him or his writers listened
to him. That he listens to him, and that there
are conversations being had that people would be shocked by.
I tend to when I hear stuff in the background,
you know, people are always like, oh, you hear stuff in
the background, would just trust a plan. It's like, no,
if you like, if you have someone feeding you information
and you reveal who that is, it's going to I mean,
they're not going to feed you information anymore, and you're
gonna lose a friend. You don't do that to friends.
So you know, I apologize when I'm like, look, you
don't have to trust me, but here's what I'm telling you.
And if it comes to if it comes true what
I'm telling you, then you know, it seems like my
source is valid. And it just seems to me that
Tucker may be the greatest friend that we have. That
Mills episode, I've listened to it twice. I mean, I
never take notes on a podcast, and I have two
pages of notes over here on it, and I mean
it was you know, I was talking to our mutual
friend dark Enlightenment, and he said, if I were to
go on a show and talk about this group of people,
and I knew that I had to, you know, watch
my language. The conversation that was going on there would
be what I was, the things that I would say.
So how am I you know, I can only judge
somebody by what they're doing. What's coming out of their mouth,
what they're saying, and their intentions. Yeah, everybody may have
intentions behind the scenes of something, you know whatever, but
I don't know what that is. I can just go
by what I know.
Speaker 1: So again, natural pessimist, right, I mean, it should be
no shock to anyone. So I think there's a common
objection to what we've said today, which is this is just,
you know, the new version of what the alt right said.
We're red pilling normans, We're creating a cultural revolution. I
would argue this is completely different for two reasons. One,
why do we care the Tucker Carlson is saying something?
Is it because you know he has the most viewers. No,
it's because important people listen when he says something, right,
he both has.
Speaker 3: I don't care. I don't care what Normy's heard that episode.
I care what elites were listening to that episode. That's
all I care about. That's why I got excited about
that episode because Tucker Carlson. It's like Scott Adams. I
probably agree with Scott Adams on maybe thirty or forty
percent of things when I listen to him. But when
Scott Adams is talking about, you know, racial relations, in
this country, or he says I can't support Israel anymore.
It's not just normies that listen to him. Elites listen
to Scott Adams, and they're hearing things and they're making
Maybe they haven't thought this way before. Maybe they haven't
because they're in this ivory tower and they're protected by everything,
and they have guards. They don't realize what is going
on that all of that can fall apart that if
you get if this country gets bad enough, you're you know,
you're going to have to hire a private army, and
then the next person who has enough money can just
pay that army to go is to turn on you.
It's about who listens to these people. I don't know
what I mean. I have an idea of a couple
of people that we would consider to be elites that
listen to me. But I know that like probably most
of them, most of the ones that we'd be interested
in their opinion turning in our direction. Listen to Tucker.
That's the only thing that's important. I'm sorry I interrupted you.
Speaker 1: No, no, not at all. And similarly, right, how do
we disprove that idea that we're just running the same
right wing playbook from ten years ago, you know of
you know, shifting quote unquote the discourse. It's because it's
produced fruit. Right. Any number of these things, right was
outside of the concent actual window, certainly four years ago,
but I would argue eight years ago, right, all of
these were wild fever dreams. And the fact that the
Overton window has been shifted enough and not all of
it is from us, right. A large part of it
is that people react to power, and when power does
something that is seen after the case is being legitimate.
And I think that's what we're seeing. Obviously, there's still
a big fight going on. None of this is done.
But I think, if anything, we really owe a lot
to Donald Trump simply for shifting the view of what
is seen as as possible, right, because look like I
don't want to stop here, I want to keep going.
There is more that needs to be done that's more
radical than any of the things we've seen so far, right,
in order for this country to be you know, stable
and livable and that you know, real culture. Right to
return to that. And I don't think, at least from
my perspective, you can jump from one to the other.
But even I was gonna say even a five percent,
But let's be honest, is what like a twenty thirty
percent jerk one direction in a few weeks? Like to me,
you'd be stupid to turn your nose.
Speaker 3: Up at that. Yeah. The I think I heard and
I think I heard it from like some some progressives
that like a poll was done recently and Trump's at
like a fifty nine percent approval rating. I mean, do
you understand what that is? Does anybody understand what that is?
If you take into consideration that thirty percent of the
country is like staunchly on one side and thirty percent
and thirty percent of the country is staunchly on the
other side, and those two those two groups will never
agree with each other. That means that means Trump is
one seventy five percent of the middle. I mean that
would be huge, That would be insane. Yeah, and not
And we were just talking about we're not we're not
looking to have a normy revolution here. If you were
to red pill, you know, if you read pill, three
hundred million normies, what do you do with them? But
the Yeah, what I like to say is, you know,
everybody thinks if there's a revolution, it's going to be
seventeen seventy six, but in this country it could very
well turn into seventeen eighty nine or seventeen ninety three
really quick. And you don't want either of those. You
don't want you don't want that one. You don't want
a revolution at all. You know. What you want is
you want a a reconfiguring of what people are willing
to accept. And the only way to fix all of
this is to do it by thea. That's the one
thing Yarvin was right about. If you are going to
fix this, it has to be fixed like all at once.
And it seems like that's the path that it's on now,
you know, just talking to the people who you know,
listen to us, it's like, well, what are you willing
to live with? What trade offs are you willing to make?
Politics is all about trade offfs It always has been.
The founders knew it was all about trade offs. Yeah,
whenever you have one side just looking to command everything,
it just seems like there's this metaphysical force that steps
in and goes, all right, we're gonna have to we're
gonna have to do something about this really quickly. What
are you willing to what are you wanting to what
do you want? What do you Because if what you
want is out of the realm of possibility, then you know,
as our buddy you know who we mentioned a couple
a bunch of times, Thomas says, you're not even in
the game. You're you're not in the game. You're just
basically looking to and you know another thing, he says,
if you want what you want, go build it yourself.
There's enough there's enough space in this country that you
can go and do your own thing. Maybe not advertise
it like an idiot, but you know, go build your
own thing. Or you're willing to put up with what
you know, You're willing to make some trade offs for
having things dress having a government that doesn't hate you,
and how about that?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I unfortunately, Pete, I have a heart out. I've
really enjoyed this conversation. The reason I wanted to have
you on, if it wasn't obvious, is I've been really
unsatisfied with probably ninety percent of the discourse about you
know current thing. I get it. People are excited about it.
I am too.
Speaker 3: People are not excited. People are scared to state their opinions,
especially content creators. Content creators are scared to put their
put their reputation on the line. They're scared to make
predictions because they'll they'll be wrong. I've been wrong so
many fucking times, and people still I think that's one
of the things is I always say it, Man, I
was really wrong about that. I got to change my thinking.
I think people are just scared to be wrong. They're cowards,
They're scared to be to put themselves out there. Well,
I'm sorry, I've been doing this this. This is my
eighth year doing this. I've been wrong a lot, and
I'm going to continue to be wrong. I'm going to
fucking deal with it. And if people don't like it,
well they don't have to listen.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's uh. I have a very spotted history with
making predictions on the Internet, and my most recent prediction,
which I'll admit has a certain amount of evidence that
you know, you will understand. My prediction is, uh, world
War two, anti gravity technology is coming back, and I've
staked my entire reputation on that. So we'll see how
that goes. But I know exactly what you mean, right,
is that people are so afraid of looking foolish right
that they're they're unwilling to actually have to be honest
interesting ideas at all. And I mean that's exactly what
you know pushed me out of kind of traditional conservative politics.
But Pete, we're we're fast coming up on time. If
people want to find you in your work, what's a
good way for them to do that?
Speaker 3: The Pekana Show, all Podcastcherspete, substack dot com and the
Old Glory Club and the Inquisition and the Inquisition start
substack and the episode has always go up on my feed.
Old Glory Club episodes go up on my feed, and
you know, everything goes up on my substack and everywhere
else that I put stuff. So yep, just if you
never't heard me before, haven't heard me before, just go
to a Podcascher put put my name in there and
just listen to an episode. See what you think.
Speaker 1: I appreciate it. Pete, thanks for coming out. As far
as my stuff, The Jay Burden Show is available on Apple, Spotify, YouTube,
anywhere you listen to podcasts. You want to support us,
you can either do that with the crypto links down
the description the markets up so why not? Or alternately,
you could check out Axios Remote Fitness and Coaching can
redid how that branding integration works, so if you've you've
held off, I highly recommend checking it out. Axios is
a pretty pretty crucial part of my weekly routine, and
i'd appreciate if you joined me again. Pete, I appreciate it,
and everyone at home, keep your head up well. I
can't last forever. Good Night,