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<v Speaker 1>Welcome back to the Path Went Chile for part two

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<v Speaker 1>of our series about the Mills family murders. Robin, do

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<v Speaker 1>you want to catch everyone up and what we talked

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<v Speaker 1>about in our previous episode.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, this is a very unique mystery because it actually

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<v Speaker 2>has a tie into Jim Jones and the in his

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<v Speaker 2>cult and the infamous Jonestown massacre. The victims in question

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<v Speaker 2>are fifty one year old Al Mills, his forty year

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<v Speaker 2>old wife, Jeanie, and his sixteen year old stepdaughter Dapien,

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<v Speaker 2>who was Janie's child from a previous marriage. They had

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<v Speaker 2>been prom members of the Jonestown cult for many years,

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<v Speaker 2>but decided to break free and became outspoken advocates against them,

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<v Speaker 2>and after the Jonestown massacre occurred. During Jim Jones's death tape,

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<v Speaker 2>he pretty much threatened Genie, saying that she was partially

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<v Speaker 2>responsible for what happened, and he said that surviving members

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<v Speaker 2>of the People's Temple were going to get revenge on them.

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<v Speaker 2>In nineteen eighty, Al, Genie, Daephene, and Janie's seventeen year

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<v Speaker 2>old son Eddie from a previous marriage. We're all living

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<v Speaker 2>together in Berkeley, California, but someone came into their home

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<v Speaker 2>one evening and murdered al Jeanie and Daphene in the

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<v Speaker 2>main bedroom, and turned out that Eddie was inside his

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<v Speaker 2>own bedroom the entire time, but he always maintained that

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<v Speaker 2>he did not see or hear anything unusual. Of course,

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<v Speaker 2>this made investigator suspicious and they started looking at Eddie

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<v Speaker 2>as the prime suspect. And he did have a small

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<v Speaker 2>trace amount of gunshot residue on his hands, but it

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<v Speaker 2>was really not big enough to conclusively say with any

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<v Speaker 2>certainty that he fired a gun, and the actual murder

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<v Speaker 2>weapon was never found. Eddie eventually moved to Japan, started

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<v Speaker 2>his own family, and moved on with his life, but

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<v Speaker 2>in two thousand and five, he returned to the United

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<v Speaker 2>States in order to visit his family, and the authorities

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<v Speaker 2>decided to take him into custody, but they could only

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<v Speaker 2>hold him for forty eight hours and ultimately decided that

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<v Speaker 2>the evidence was not strong enough to file charges and

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<v Speaker 2>proceed and take him to trial, so he was ultimately

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<v Speaker 2>let go and the investigation has remained at a standstill

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<v Speaker 2>ever since. So to this day, opinions are still sharply

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<v Speaker 2>divided about whether or not Eddie was the perpetrator. Or

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<v Speaker 2>if the Mills family was murdered by surviving members of

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<v Speaker 2>the People's Temple, but it's also possible that they were

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<v Speaker 2>murdered by someone else and we just don't know who

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<v Speaker 2>it was, so the crime remained shrouded in mystery, so

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<v Speaker 2>we won't delve too much into this, but it's quite

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<v Speaker 2>fascinating to read accounts from former People's Temple members who

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<v Speaker 2>managed to defect from the cult and were successfully deprogrammed

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<v Speaker 2>once they met the Millses and stayed at their Human

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<v Speaker 2>Freedom Center. There's one particularly interesting account from a survivor

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<v Speaker 2>named Niva Sly Hargrave, who had become drawn to Jim

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<v Speaker 2>Jones after witnessing heel a blind woman in a wheelchair

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<v Speaker 2>so that she was supposedly able to walk and see again.

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<v Speaker 2>While when Hargrave went to the Human Freedom Center, Genie

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<v Speaker 2>put her in touch with the woman who had been

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<v Speaker 2>in the wheelchair. She was another People's Temple defector and

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<v Speaker 2>revealed that the whole healing scene had been faked, which

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<v Speaker 2>helped convince Hargrave that everything about Jones and his cult

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<v Speaker 2>were alive. But while Genie undoubtedly helped number people and

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<v Speaker 2>did a lot of good with her work. It must

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<v Speaker 2>be reported that her methods did make her some enemies

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<v Speaker 2>as well. In an article published in the March ninth,

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<v Speaker 2>nineteen eighty one edition of the San Francisco Examiner, Lowell Striker,

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<v Speaker 2>a psychologist who had worked with the Mills at the

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<v Speaker 2>Human Freedom Center, stated quote, when our relationship was good,

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<v Speaker 2>it was very, very good, and when it was bad,

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<v Speaker 2>it was horrid end quote. Indeed, Striker could see similarities

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<v Speaker 2>between how Genie operated the HEU Human Freedom Center and

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<v Speaker 2>how Jim Jones operated the People's Temple, and said quote,

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<v Speaker 2>When Genie saw I can no longer be used to

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<v Speaker 2>help her achieve her ambitions, which were fame, riches and

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<v Speaker 2>personal recognition, she turned against me, which, unfortunately was a

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<v Speaker 2>pattern she had with many people. She could meet a person,

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<v Speaker 2>trust him, invite him to trust her, work with him

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<v Speaker 2>to achieve a goal, then feel he didn't understand the goal,

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<v Speaker 2>then turn an almost crusade against him. It was a

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<v Speaker 2>very socially productive pattern when the target was Jim Jones,

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<v Speaker 2>but when it was a personal friend like myself or others,

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<v Speaker 2>it was another matter. She brought terrible habits with her

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<v Speaker 2>from the Temple, Vindictiveness, paranoia, and secretiveness, backstabbing, basically call

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<v Speaker 2>games end quote. It's also worth noting that during his

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<v Speaker 2>time at the Human Freedom Center, Striker said that he

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<v Speaker 2>often saw Eddie hanging out there watching his portable television,

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<v Speaker 2>and this is how he described him. Quote he was

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<v Speaker 2>totally withdrawn, but not sullen or angry, just quiet and polite.

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<v Speaker 2>The kid I saw was not capable of killing his parents.

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<v Speaker 2>End quote. Now I'm not sure if Striker's comments have

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<v Speaker 2>any relevance to the actual murders, but they bring up

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<v Speaker 2>an intriguing possibility, which we'll talk about momentarily.

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<v Speaker 3>This is so interesting, and it's almost there's some empathy

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<v Speaker 3>and compassion for Genie. She was in an abusive organization

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<v Speaker 3>for years where there was spiritual abuse, where abuse was

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<v Speaker 3>a way of survival, both taking it and giving abuse

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<v Speaker 3>to your fellow members, including your own family members. So

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<v Speaker 3>even though she was able to defect, those psychological effects

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<v Speaker 3>have a lifetime influence on you. And so, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>I think there's got to be an overall look and

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<v Speaker 3>understanding of where she came from, what she was trying

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<v Speaker 3>to do, and they could have been a mix. There

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<v Speaker 3>could have been a desire for fame and selfishness and

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<v Speaker 3>kind of these different desires, but there also had to

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<v Speaker 3>have been people she really did help, because she knew

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<v Speaker 3>what it was like to leave, to leave a religious

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<v Speaker 3>organization that had hurt you, and to kind of nowgate

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<v Speaker 3>trying to rebuild a life. So I guarantee you there

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<v Speaker 3>was a good with the bad, given what she escaped.

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<v Speaker 3>And I don't know, it's very interesting there, And I

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<v Speaker 3>found it ironic when he says I looked at this kid,

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<v Speaker 3>and it's not someone who could have killed his parents

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<v Speaker 3>or capable of killing his parents. I don't think people

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<v Speaker 3>like to think about it, but I think almost everybody

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<v Speaker 3>is capable of doing absolutely horrific things based on triggers,

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<v Speaker 3>whatever devices you have or devices you have in your life.

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<v Speaker 3>I think we're all capable of both incredibly good things

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<v Speaker 3>and incredibly bad things. And I always kind of have

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<v Speaker 3>to chuckle when people are like, oh, never, this person

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<v Speaker 3>could never do that. I went, yeah, I think we

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<v Speaker 3>all could. What we do we have a motivation to,

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<v Speaker 3>is there something like is it something that we could

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<v Speaker 3>do and not literally not want to live anymore? Those

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<v Speaker 3>kinds of things. Maybe not, but I think most humans

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<v Speaker 3>are capable of extreme good and bad.

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<v Speaker 1>I think you nailed it, But I also think that

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<v Speaker 1>it makes people incredibly uncomfortable to think that their child could,

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<v Speaker 1>given the right circumstances, murder them. So it's a lot

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<v Speaker 1>easier to be like, this kid could never do it,

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<v Speaker 1>because then they don't have to confront the idea that

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<v Speaker 1>it's possible that anybody is capable given the right circumstances.

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<v Speaker 2>And like you said, Triggers and Lowell Striker's comments, I

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<v Speaker 2>think he was trying to plant the seeds that because

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<v Speaker 2>Genie did a lot of good but also did a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of bad, that she could have potentially made other

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<v Speaker 2>enemies who had a motive to kill her, even if

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<v Speaker 2>they were not affiliated with the People's Temple. But even

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<v Speaker 2>though he described her as someone who looked like that,

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<v Speaker 2>she was pursuing fame and fortune, and over the year

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<v Speaker 2>she went on tour and wrote a book and did

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of interviews. But we mentioned in our last

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<v Speaker 2>episode that in the months prior to the murders, she

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<v Speaker 2>pretty much said that we're going to stop doing this

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<v Speaker 2>because we want to live a normal life for the

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<v Speaker 2>first time in quite a long time. We just want

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<v Speaker 2>to be a family and stay out of the spotlight,

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<v Speaker 2>So it does seem like Genie, even if she did

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<v Speaker 2>kind of have these tendencies where you wanted fame and fortune,

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<v Speaker 2>was about to put them behind her and just start

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<v Speaker 2>living a life of normalcy. But who knows if before

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<v Speaker 2>that she had made any enemies who may have had

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<v Speaker 2>a motive to kill her and the rest of her family.

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<v Speaker 1>The one thing which seems clear about this crime is

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<v Speaker 1>that it was a personal one, as nothing was stolen

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<v Speaker 1>from the house, so whoever did it, their only goal

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<v Speaker 1>was to murder one or more members of the family.

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<v Speaker 1>The most common theory which was floated around during that

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<v Speaker 1>time period was that the Millses were the victims of

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<v Speaker 1>a hit squad consisting of surviving members of the People's Temple.

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<v Speaker 1>Investigators never found any evidence that these hit squads actually existed,

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<v Speaker 1>and if they did, well, then this probably would have

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<v Speaker 1>been their only crime. If you search online, you'll find

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<v Speaker 1>a list of suspicious deaths where conspiracy theorists believe that

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<v Speaker 1>they are possibly linked to the People's Temple, and the

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<v Speaker 1>Mills family murders are often included on them. But the

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<v Speaker 1>important thing to note is that all of the other

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<v Speaker 1>deaths took place before the Jonestown massacre. There don't seem

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<v Speaker 1>to be any other suspicious deaths which took place after

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<v Speaker 1>Jonestown which have a tangible link to the People's Temple,

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<v Speaker 1>so this doesn't sound like a particularly efficient hit squad.

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<v Speaker 1>The way they were portrayed, these People's Temple assassins were

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<v Speaker 1>supposedly on a suicide mission, as they would have no

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<v Speaker 1>other purpose in life besides killing as many of their

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<v Speaker 1>enemies as possible before they were stopped. Yet, the only

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<v Speaker 1>people on the Temple so called hit list who wound

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<v Speaker 1>up dead were the Millses, and they weren't killed until

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<v Speaker 1>a full fifteen months after the Jonestown massacre. I think

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<v Speaker 1>it's safe to say that the People's Temple hit squad

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<v Speaker 1>was nothing more than a myth, though of course, that

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<v Speaker 1>doesn't rule out the possibility of the crime being committed

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<v Speaker 1>by someone who had a connection to the cult. That's

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<v Speaker 1>why we brought up the interview with Lowell Striker because

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<v Speaker 1>it opens up an interesting alternative theory. What if the

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<v Speaker 1>perpetrator was someone who Genie had worked with in the

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<v Speaker 1>past but at a major fall out with As a

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<v Speaker 1>hypothetical example, let's say this person was a former People's

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<v Speaker 1>Temple member who joined the Human Freedom Center, but then

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<v Speaker 1>their relationship with Genie turned bad and they felt alienated

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<v Speaker 1>by her. In response, they could have decided to invade

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<v Speaker 1>the Mill's residence and commit these murders. Of course, that's

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<v Speaker 1>all pure speculation, but as far as I can tell,

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<v Speaker 1>the investigations never turned up any promising suspects besides Bettie.

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<v Speaker 1>But the point is that by nineteen eighty both Genie

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<v Speaker 1>and her husband had become recognizable figures after sharing their

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<v Speaker 1>experiences with the People's Temple. So there's no shortage of

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<v Speaker 1>people who might have had the motive to kill them,

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<v Speaker 1>and they didn't necessarily have to be an assassin from

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<v Speaker 1>a hit squad.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, not at all.

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<v Speaker 3>And when you actually started to describe that, it makes

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<v Speaker 3>sense that someone who let's say, had escaped the People's

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<v Speaker 3>Temple and this abused this trauma. Maybe many people of

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<v Speaker 3>their family were murdered down in Guyana. So let's assume

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<v Speaker 3>they've already suffered significant trauma and loss under the of

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<v Speaker 3>Jim Jones and the fellow members. And then they get

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<v Speaker 3>out and they go and turn to Genie for refuge,

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<v Speaker 3>and in their mind, she's exploiting people, she's looking for fame,

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<v Speaker 3>she's also abusive, and could they see her as an

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<v Speaker 3>extension of Jim Jones and have a trauma response to

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<v Speaker 3>that and say she's got to be stopped before she

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<v Speaker 3>continues to traumatize more people. I don't think that's the case,

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<v Speaker 3>but it's another thing to think about instead of just oh,

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<v Speaker 3>we want to execute all of our enemies, what if

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<v Speaker 3>they viewed her as someone continuing almost the abuses that

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<v Speaker 3>they were taught with in the cold.

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<v Speaker 2>And if this is what happened, it could provide a

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<v Speaker 2>potential explanation for why Eddie was spared if he is

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<v Speaker 2>completely innocent, where all they cared about was Genie. They

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<v Speaker 2>didn't so much care about Al or the two children.

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<v Speaker 2>So if they came into her bedroom and Al and

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<v Speaker 2>Da Fiene just happened to be there, they could have

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<v Speaker 2>been killed because they were witnesses. But because Genie was

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<v Speaker 2>the primary target, this person didn't bother checking the other rooms,

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<v Speaker 2>and that could explain why Eddie survived on scathe. So

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<v Speaker 2>one alternate theory which has been presented is that the

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<v Speaker 2>original target was actually Timothy Stowen, as Joan also mentioned

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<v Speaker 2>his name on his infamous death tape when he implied

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<v Speaker 2>that his surviving followers were going to seek revenge. Long

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<v Speaker 2>story short. Even though Stone had been Jones's right hand man,

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<v Speaker 2>the relationship fell apart when Stone's infant son, John was

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<v Speaker 2>born and Stowin signed AFFI David, which stated that Jones

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<v Speaker 2>was the child's biological father. This began a lengthy custody

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<v Speaker 2>battle between Stowe and Jones, which lasted several years, and tragically,

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<v Speaker 2>John wound up being poisoned during the Jonestown massacre. At

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<v Speaker 2>the age of six. Stone became such an outspoken opponent

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<v Speaker 2>against the People's Temple that he worked together with the

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<v Speaker 2>Millses to form the organization Concerned Relatives of People's Temple members.

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<v Speaker 2>Jones reportedly felt so betrayed by Stowe's defection that he

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<v Speaker 2>ordered his followers to write out detailed fantasies about murdering

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<v Speaker 2>him anyway. Stowe had lived with the Millses at their

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<v Speaker 2>cottage in Burger for a time, which is why it's

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<v Speaker 2>been theorized that perhaps Stowin was the intended target and

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<v Speaker 2>the perpetrator mistakenly believed he was still living there. However,

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<v Speaker 2>I think this theory is completely undermined by the fact

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<v Speaker 2>that Eddie was left unharmed. If the killer entered the

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<v Speaker 2>residence with the express purpose of murdering Stowin, you think

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<v Speaker 2>they would have checked every room to look for him.

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<v Speaker 2>And if Eddie is telling the truth about being inside

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<v Speaker 2>his bedroom the entire time, then it makes zero sense

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<v Speaker 2>that the intruder would murder his family across the hall

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<v Speaker 2>but not bother to enter Eddie's bedroom to see if

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<v Speaker 2>Stowe was there. No, it seems pretty cut and dried

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<v Speaker 2>that Al Genie or perhaps even day Feen were the

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<v Speaker 2>intended targets, because after they were killed in the main bedroom,

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<v Speaker 2>the shooter didn't seem concerned about anything else. Another big

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<v Speaker 2>unanswered question is whether day Fiene just happened to be

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<v Speaker 2>in her parents' bedroom when she was shot, or did

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<v Speaker 2>she hear the shots and come running in there, or

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<v Speaker 2>did the perpetrator find Dayfeen in her own room and

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<v Speaker 2>bring her into the main bedroom before shooting all three

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<v Speaker 2>of the victims. Again. If that's what happened, it's very

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<v Speaker 2>odd that they wouldn't have even bothered to check Eddie's room. However,

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<v Speaker 2>Al Jeanie or both of them were the intended targets.

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<v Speaker 2>An intruder may not have cared about killing their children,

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<v Speaker 2>but since Dayfien just happened to be in the bedroom

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<v Speaker 2>at that time, they had to shoot her too because

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<v Speaker 2>she was a witness.

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<v Speaker 3>Do you think there was a robbery component to this.

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<v Speaker 3>It's pretty brazen. It's in the mid evening. This isn't

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<v Speaker 3>a time you would think that everyone's going to be

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<v Speaker 3>asleep that you could go in there and you know,

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<v Speaker 3>maybe get out without anyone noticing. I'm pretty sure they

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<v Speaker 3>knew people were there, and it sounds like I don't

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<v Speaker 3>often have like my kids and stuff in my bedroom,

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<v Speaker 3>so especially like teenage kids. So I'm wondering if they intruded.

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<v Speaker 3>They came in, they're like, you know, give me the safe,

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<v Speaker 3>give me this whatever they're looking for, and they push

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<v Speaker 3>everyone into the master bedroom because typically jewelry, money, things

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<v Speaker 3>like that would be stored in the parents' bedroom. And

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<v Speaker 3>then when there's a confrontation or something, and that's when

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<v Speaker 3>they execute the three of them, and then holy cow,

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<v Speaker 3>this robbery went bad. We need to get out of here.

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<v Speaker 3>And so Eddie's just happens to be sound asleep through

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<v Speaker 3>the whole thing and doesn't get awoken, nor do they

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<v Speaker 3>look through rooms, because maybe the intended idea was there's

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<v Speaker 3>something in that home they wanted and it ended up

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<v Speaker 3>in a triple murder instead, and they rushed out.

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<v Speaker 2>That is true. It was reported that nothing appeared to

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<v Speaker 2>be stolen and there was no ransacking, but I guess

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<v Speaker 2>it could be a possibility that that was their intention

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<v Speaker 2>when they went in there, and once they killed someone,

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<v Speaker 2>they panicked and ran out of there without stealing anything.

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<v Speaker 2>We mentioned in our last episode that the Millses were

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<v Speaker 2>known for keeping the front door unlocked so that their

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00:15:39.919 --> 00:15:42.759
<v Speaker 2>children's friends could come and go as they pleased, so

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00:15:43.080 --> 00:15:46.039
<v Speaker 2>they easily could have entered the home without causing any damage.

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<v Speaker 2>And then when maybe, like you said, they asked for

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<v Speaker 2>a safe to be opened, or they were looking for

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<v Speaker 2>some valuables that weren't located there. It could be a

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00:15:53.559 --> 00:15:56.200
<v Speaker 2>case where whatever they wanted was in a safe deposit

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00:15:56.240 --> 00:15:59.279
<v Speaker 2>box at the bank, and when the Mills didn't hand

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00:15:59.279 --> 00:16:02.200
<v Speaker 2>over what they wanted, and that's what things escalated into violence,

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<v Speaker 2>And this is why the perpetrator fled the scene without

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<v Speaker 2>stealing anything.

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<v Speaker 1>One of the most ironic things about this case is

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<v Speaker 1>that if you looked into the backgrounds of both Eddie

302
00:16:13.399 --> 00:16:16.320
<v Speaker 1>and Dayphen, most people who knew the family would have

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00:16:16.399 --> 00:16:19.240
<v Speaker 1>said that Dayphene was a much more likely candidate to

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00:16:19.279 --> 00:16:22.320
<v Speaker 1>have committed the crime, as she apparently had a volatile

305
00:16:22.399 --> 00:16:26.519
<v Speaker 1>relationship with her parents at times. Like Eddie, Dayphene often

306
00:16:26.559 --> 00:16:29.960
<v Speaker 1>had problems in school and clearly had difficulties adjusting to

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00:16:30.000 --> 00:16:33.399
<v Speaker 1>a normal life after spending her childhood in the people's temple.

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<v Speaker 1>Following the murders, one of Dayphine's friends claimed that she

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00:16:37.120 --> 00:16:39.840
<v Speaker 1>briefly had run away from home two months earlier and

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00:16:39.919 --> 00:16:42.600
<v Speaker 1>came over to her house crying, where she showed a

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00:16:42.639 --> 00:16:44.840
<v Speaker 1>red mark on her cheek and said that her stepfather

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00:16:44.919 --> 00:16:48.240
<v Speaker 1>slapped her. We mentioned in our last episode, the police

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<v Speaker 1>recovered a recording of a phone conversation in which Daiphine

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00:16:51.639 --> 00:16:53.799
<v Speaker 1>told a friend that she would get the family's house

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00:16:53.879 --> 00:16:56.919
<v Speaker 1>after she killed her parents. Though I get the impression

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00:16:56.960 --> 00:16:59.399
<v Speaker 1>that it was nothing more than a silly, sarcastic comment

317
00:16:59.440 --> 00:17:03.120
<v Speaker 1>from a Jada teenager. Even if it wasn't, the evidence

318
00:17:03.159 --> 00:17:06.240
<v Speaker 1>clearly shows that this crime was not a murder suicide.

319
00:17:06.839 --> 00:17:09.680
<v Speaker 1>I guess another possible theory is that Dayphene could have

320
00:17:09.759 --> 00:17:12.440
<v Speaker 1>been the intended target. All along and her mother and

321
00:17:12.480 --> 00:17:16.079
<v Speaker 1>stepfather were just collateral damage. I would really like to

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00:17:16.160 --> 00:17:19.039
<v Speaker 1>know more details about this ex boyfriend of Dayphien's who

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00:17:19.079 --> 00:17:21.240
<v Speaker 1>claimed that he saw three men running out of the

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<v Speaker 1>mills residence on the night of the crime, before they

325
00:17:23.720 --> 00:17:26.279
<v Speaker 1>fled the scene in a Pontiac Granam driven by a

326
00:17:26.319 --> 00:17:30.240
<v Speaker 1>fourth man. This witness's name has never been released publicly,

327
00:17:30.400 --> 00:17:33.000
<v Speaker 1>and he's not mentioned during most accounts of the case,

328
00:17:33.440 --> 00:17:35.960
<v Speaker 1>as we only found out about him through some newspaper

329
00:17:36.039 --> 00:17:39.160
<v Speaker 1>articles which were published in the months following the murders.

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<v Speaker 1>I know police did not consider him to be a

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<v Speaker 1>credible witness because he had a history of troubles with

332
00:17:43.960 --> 00:17:46.920
<v Speaker 1>the law, and while he did pass a polygraph test,

333
00:17:47.319 --> 00:17:49.759
<v Speaker 1>there's pretty much been no further mention of him after

334
00:17:49.799 --> 00:17:55.319
<v Speaker 1>that unless investigators found compelling evidence to completely discount his story.

335
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<v Speaker 1>It's odd that it isn't given more credence because this

336
00:17:58.720 --> 00:18:02.400
<v Speaker 1>is the only eyewitness count which places outside intruders at

337
00:18:02.400 --> 00:18:05.519
<v Speaker 1>the Mills's residence. Of course, if you want a really

338
00:18:05.559 --> 00:18:08.559
<v Speaker 1>off the wall theory, perhaps this guy committed the murderers

339
00:18:08.559 --> 00:18:10.960
<v Speaker 1>because he wanted revenge on date been for their breakup,

340
00:18:11.359 --> 00:18:13.519
<v Speaker 1>and then fabricated the story about the men in the

341
00:18:13.559 --> 00:18:16.079
<v Speaker 1>car in order to take the heat off himself. But

342
00:18:16.160 --> 00:18:18.039
<v Speaker 1>that obviously is just wild speculation.

343
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<v Speaker 3>I think that's a definite possibility, but I think it's

344
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<v Speaker 3>a low one because, like you said, he you know, yes,

345
00:18:24.519 --> 00:18:27.440
<v Speaker 3>he had a history with trouble with the law, but

346
00:18:27.720 --> 00:18:31.039
<v Speaker 3>he sounds like another I mean, he's a young kid.

347
00:18:31.119 --> 00:18:34.480
<v Speaker 3>I think he just seems like someone who's struggling through

348
00:18:34.519 --> 00:18:37.240
<v Speaker 3>life and has this breakup. I don't see that as

349
00:18:37.240 --> 00:18:41.519
<v Speaker 3>a motivation to go kill three people. And in fact,

350
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<v Speaker 3>the fact that he passed a lie detector test, Yes

351
00:18:44.039 --> 00:18:46.400
<v Speaker 3>they're not admissible in court, but they can reveal a

352
00:18:46.400 --> 00:18:50.240
<v Speaker 3>lot of information to police. So while he is able

353
00:18:50.279 --> 00:18:52.680
<v Speaker 3>to not only say I wasn't involved, but also this

354
00:18:52.759 --> 00:18:55.359
<v Speaker 3>is what I saw, and that passes a lie detector test,

355
00:18:55.720 --> 00:18:59.319
<v Speaker 3>it's definitely something that needed to be explored. They end

356
00:18:59.359 --> 00:19:02.039
<v Speaker 3>up focusing and I believe only on the son Eddie,

357
00:19:02.440 --> 00:19:05.920
<v Speaker 3>and you have somebody here. Yes, his background's questionable, but

358
00:19:06.319 --> 00:19:09.400
<v Speaker 3>you went ahead and polygraphed him anyway, and the information

359
00:19:09.480 --> 00:19:13.400
<v Speaker 3>he shared past that polygraph. So shouldn't that be an

360
00:19:13.440 --> 00:19:17.000
<v Speaker 3>equally fair observation to say we're going to go down

361
00:19:17.079 --> 00:19:19.599
<v Speaker 3>this road and look for who these three people could

362
00:19:19.640 --> 00:19:22.000
<v Speaker 3>be in this type of car, and who the driver

363
00:19:22.119 --> 00:19:22.599
<v Speaker 3>might have been.

364
00:19:23.400 --> 00:19:25.839
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it really does seem like the whole situation reeks

365
00:19:25.839 --> 00:19:29.000
<v Speaker 2>of tunnel vision, because regardless of whether or not Eddie

366
00:19:29.079 --> 00:19:31.680
<v Speaker 2>was the killer, it seems like right from the outset,

367
00:19:31.880 --> 00:19:35.319
<v Speaker 2>law enforcement settled on their theory that Eddie murdered his

368
00:19:35.440 --> 00:19:37.720
<v Speaker 2>family and that was the only angle that they were

369
00:19:37.720 --> 00:19:40.240
<v Speaker 2>going to look at. So when we have this eyewitness

370
00:19:40.240 --> 00:19:43.720
<v Speaker 2>account which places other people in the Mills home, it

371
00:19:43.759 --> 00:19:46.279
<v Speaker 2>seems like they're saying to themselves, well, this kid has

372
00:19:46.319 --> 00:19:48.599
<v Speaker 2>troubles with the law. He's not a reliable witness, so

373
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<v Speaker 2>we're just going to completely discount it, even though if

374
00:19:51.400 --> 00:19:54.319
<v Speaker 2>he is telling the truth, then this leans towards someone

375
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<v Speaker 2>else other than Eddie being the killers.

376
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<v Speaker 1>And I think if you're going to apply the same

377
00:19:59.319 --> 00:20:02.119
<v Speaker 1>logic that like a teenager is capable of murder and

378
00:20:02.160 --> 00:20:05.359
<v Speaker 1>they could have those similar motivations, then they should have

379
00:20:05.440 --> 00:20:08.880
<v Speaker 1>done their due diligence just to eliminate the boyfriend or

380
00:20:08.960 --> 00:20:11.359
<v Speaker 1>dug in a little bit deeper. I agree with Ashley.

381
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<v Speaker 1>I think the probabilities low that he's the one that

382
00:20:13.960 --> 00:20:16.400
<v Speaker 1>committed the crimes, but I think that because we know

383
00:20:16.480 --> 00:20:19.279
<v Speaker 1>nothing about his background, and because we know nothing about

384
00:20:19.359 --> 00:20:22.000
<v Speaker 1>him except what he says that he saw and that

385
00:20:22.079 --> 00:20:24.559
<v Speaker 1>he dated day Feene, I think there's a myriad of

386
00:20:24.599 --> 00:20:27.880
<v Speaker 1>possibilities that we just aren't privy to the information.

387
00:20:29.079 --> 00:20:31.880
<v Speaker 2>However, another piece of evidence which seems to support the

388
00:20:31.880 --> 00:20:34.799
<v Speaker 2>intruder theory and has only gotten mentioned in a handful

389
00:20:34.880 --> 00:20:38.640
<v Speaker 2>of newspaper articles, is the claim from Eddie's half sister Linda,

390
00:20:38.839 --> 00:20:42.279
<v Speaker 2>that she received an anonymous phone call from someone informing

391
00:20:42.319 --> 00:20:45.599
<v Speaker 2>her that al and Jeanie had been killed. At least

392
00:20:45.640 --> 00:20:47.839
<v Speaker 2>one source stated that the call took place at around

393
00:20:47.920 --> 00:20:50.680
<v Speaker 2>nine thirty pm, which is around the same time police

394
00:20:50.720 --> 00:20:53.359
<v Speaker 2>were someone of the scene. So assuming that Linda is

395
00:20:53.400 --> 00:20:55.799
<v Speaker 2>telling the truth, the caller had to have had some

396
00:20:55.920 --> 00:20:59.720
<v Speaker 2>inside knowledge, and since Linda said the caller was a female,

397
00:20:59.799 --> 00:21:02.920
<v Speaker 2>this rules out the possibility of it being Eddie. So

398
00:21:03.039 --> 00:21:05.240
<v Speaker 2>who was this woman and how did she know about

399
00:21:05.279 --> 00:21:08.480
<v Speaker 2>the murders. It's worth noting that when Eddie was arrested

400
00:21:08.480 --> 00:21:11.400
<v Speaker 2>in two thousand and five, Linda publicly expressed her belief

401
00:21:11.400 --> 00:21:13.839
<v Speaker 2>that he was innocent, and if she really did receive

402
00:21:13.880 --> 00:21:16.720
<v Speaker 2>that anonymous call, then you can understand why Linda would

403
00:21:16.720 --> 00:21:19.279
<v Speaker 2>be inclined to feel this way, since it leans towards

404
00:21:19.279 --> 00:21:20.759
<v Speaker 2>someone else being the killer.

405
00:21:21.960 --> 00:21:25.640
<v Speaker 3>That's incredibly interesting. By nine thirty thirty minutes after the

406
00:21:25.680 --> 00:21:28.920
<v Speaker 3>bodies are discovered, it's not going to be on the

407
00:21:28.960 --> 00:21:31.480
<v Speaker 3>news and it's not going to be widespread information. Next

408
00:21:31.480 --> 00:21:35.039
<v Speaker 3>to Ken probably hadn't been notified. And so the idea

409
00:21:35.200 --> 00:21:38.519
<v Speaker 3>that she gets this phone call from a woman. I'm

410
00:21:38.599 --> 00:21:41.279
<v Speaker 3>assuming they tried to trace the calls. This isn't like

411
00:21:41.359 --> 00:21:44.599
<v Speaker 3>nineteen forty, you know, did they get any information there?

412
00:21:45.240 --> 00:21:47.839
<v Speaker 2>Unfortunately, I don't have that. I mean, I've seen a

413
00:21:47.839 --> 00:21:51.319
<v Speaker 2>lot of cases from the early nineteen eighties or seventies

414
00:21:51.359 --> 00:21:54.480
<v Speaker 2>where there's a key piece of evidence is a phone call,

415
00:21:54.640 --> 00:21:57.519
<v Speaker 2>but you never find out if they verify phone records

416
00:21:57.519 --> 00:22:00.400
<v Speaker 2>to see where the call originated from. So I don't

417
00:22:00.440 --> 00:22:02.839
<v Speaker 2>know if they didn't have the technology back then, or

418
00:22:02.920 --> 00:22:05.440
<v Speaker 2>maybe because they were so focused on Eddie and thought

419
00:22:05.480 --> 00:22:08.200
<v Speaker 2>he was the perpetrator, maybe they just completely ignored this

420
00:22:08.279 --> 00:22:09.400
<v Speaker 2>lead altogether.

421
00:22:10.440 --> 00:22:13.680
<v Speaker 1>I think we were about ten years ahead of easy

422
00:22:13.759 --> 00:22:17.039
<v Speaker 1>phone tracing technology because I think it became I mean,

423
00:22:17.039 --> 00:22:19.000
<v Speaker 1>correct me if I'm wrong with either of you guys, know,

424
00:22:19.119 --> 00:22:21.839
<v Speaker 1>but I think in the nineties it became like a

425
00:22:21.920 --> 00:22:25.400
<v Speaker 1>given that police had access to that technology, but in

426
00:22:25.440 --> 00:22:28.359
<v Speaker 1>the eighties it feels like it would have been rather rudimentary.

427
00:22:29.200 --> 00:22:31.240
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I have heard of some cases from the eighties

428
00:22:31.240 --> 00:22:33.319
<v Speaker 2>where they did use that technology, but I think it

429
00:22:33.319 --> 00:22:36.720
<v Speaker 2>would depend on the location and the police department and

430
00:22:36.759 --> 00:22:38.920
<v Speaker 2>if they had the technology to do that and the

431
00:22:38.960 --> 00:22:41.880
<v Speaker 2>resources at that time. So I could go either way.

432
00:22:41.920 --> 00:22:44.920
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I know that Berkeley was a fairly large city,

433
00:22:44.960 --> 00:22:46.960
<v Speaker 2>but I couldn't say with any certainty if they could

434
00:22:46.960 --> 00:22:48.960
<v Speaker 2>trace phone calls back in nineteen eighty.

435
00:22:50.680 --> 00:22:53.720
<v Speaker 1>So now we have to talk about Eddie himself, who

436
00:22:53.759 --> 00:22:56.480
<v Speaker 1>quite frankly, seems to be a bit of an enigma.

437
00:22:56.759 --> 00:22:58.640
<v Speaker 1>At the time of the murders, he dropped out of

438
00:22:58.720 --> 00:23:01.440
<v Speaker 1>high school and was mostly spending his time helping his

439
00:23:01.480 --> 00:23:05.839
<v Speaker 1>stepfather remodel old homes as student rentals. Of course, Eddie's

440
00:23:05.880 --> 00:23:09.000
<v Speaker 1>childhood and the People's Temple would be difficult enough because

441
00:23:09.039 --> 00:23:11.400
<v Speaker 1>of the abuse that he was forced to endure, but

442
00:23:11.519 --> 00:23:15.039
<v Speaker 1>another thing which must have had a devastating psychological effect

443
00:23:15.480 --> 00:23:17.720
<v Speaker 1>was the fact that he grew up alongside a number

444
00:23:17.720 --> 00:23:20.000
<v Speaker 1>of other children in the temple who were friends of his,

445
00:23:20.440 --> 00:23:22.599
<v Speaker 1>and a lot of them wound up losing their lives

446
00:23:22.680 --> 00:23:26.319
<v Speaker 1>during the Jonestown massacre. That obviously played a role in

447
00:23:26.400 --> 00:23:29.519
<v Speaker 1>making Eddie a quiet, with drawn teenager, But if he

448
00:23:29.599 --> 00:23:32.680
<v Speaker 1>displayed any red flags which suggested that he was capable

449
00:23:32.680 --> 00:23:35.920
<v Speaker 1>of murdering his family, it doesn't sound like anyone ever

450
00:23:35.960 --> 00:23:39.319
<v Speaker 1>said anything. We also don't know much about Eddie's life

451
00:23:39.359 --> 00:23:42.000
<v Speaker 1>after the crime took place, except that he got married,

452
00:23:42.319 --> 00:23:45.759
<v Speaker 1>had two children, and eventually moved to Japan. So if

453
00:23:45.880 --> 00:23:48.720
<v Speaker 1>Eddie is guilty, he seemed to have no issues moving

454
00:23:48.759 --> 00:23:52.119
<v Speaker 1>on with his life after committing an act of familicide.

455
00:23:52.240 --> 00:23:55.440
<v Speaker 1>The main evidence against Eddie is the traces of gunshot

456
00:23:55.480 --> 00:23:58.319
<v Speaker 1>residue which were found on his right hand, but you

457
00:23:58.359 --> 00:24:01.359
<v Speaker 1>have to remember that it was a pretty chroscopic amount.

458
00:24:01.559 --> 00:24:03.920
<v Speaker 1>It certainly wasn't enough to charge him with the murders

459
00:24:03.920 --> 00:24:06.160
<v Speaker 1>at the time, though if he wash or wiped his

460
00:24:06.240 --> 00:24:09.160
<v Speaker 1>hands after firing a gun, that might explain why the

461
00:24:09.200 --> 00:24:10.160
<v Speaker 1>amount wasn't bigger.

462
00:24:11.079 --> 00:24:11.799
<v Speaker 2>There's been a.

463
00:24:11.680 --> 00:24:14.319
<v Speaker 1>Lot of debate over the years about the reliability of

464
00:24:14.359 --> 00:24:18.400
<v Speaker 1>gunshot residue was evidence, as the presence does not conclusively

465
00:24:18.480 --> 00:24:21.599
<v Speaker 1>prove that someone fired a gun. In fact, there's even

466
00:24:21.680 --> 00:24:25.200
<v Speaker 1>one documented wrongful conviction case in which an innocent man

467
00:24:25.440 --> 00:24:28.759
<v Speaker 1>named Sebaine Burgess spent nearly twenty years in prison for

468
00:24:28.839 --> 00:24:31.720
<v Speaker 1>the murder of his girlfriend based solely on the presence

469
00:24:31.720 --> 00:24:34.880
<v Speaker 1>of gunshot residue on his hands. It turned out this

470
00:24:35.000 --> 00:24:38.599
<v Speaker 1>GSR had actually transferred onto Burgess's hands while he was

471
00:24:38.599 --> 00:24:42.559
<v Speaker 1>cradling his girlfriend's body, so his conviction was overturned after

472
00:24:42.599 --> 00:24:46.680
<v Speaker 1>the evidence was proven to be scientifically unsound. While I've

473
00:24:46.720 --> 00:24:49.839
<v Speaker 1>never seen any indication that Eddie touched his family's bodies

474
00:24:49.880 --> 00:24:53.160
<v Speaker 1>after they were killed, that could provide one potentially innocent

475
00:24:53.200 --> 00:24:57.359
<v Speaker 1>explanation for how GSR transferred to his hand. This type

476
00:24:57.359 --> 00:25:00.279
<v Speaker 1>of transfer can also occur by touching surfaces which have

477
00:25:00.359 --> 00:25:03.720
<v Speaker 1>been contaminated by GSR, or even something as simple as

478
00:25:03.720 --> 00:25:06.440
<v Speaker 1>shaking hands with another person you fired a gun earlier

479
00:25:06.480 --> 00:25:09.839
<v Speaker 1>that day. We're not saying that's necessarily what happened in

480
00:25:09.839 --> 00:25:13.160
<v Speaker 1>this case, but if there's no corroborating evidence to implicate

481
00:25:13.240 --> 00:25:17.599
<v Speaker 1>Eddie besides microscopic traces of GSR, then I can understand

482
00:25:17.640 --> 00:25:19.599
<v Speaker 1>the reluctance to charge him with this crime.

483
00:25:20.440 --> 00:25:20.720
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

484
00:25:20.759 --> 00:25:22.680
<v Speaker 3>Absolutely, I mean you have to think about it. I

485
00:25:23.079 --> 00:25:25.759
<v Speaker 3>love the idea of a simple handshake with the police

486
00:25:25.799 --> 00:25:28.359
<v Speaker 3>officer they're like, hey, son, wake up, you know, and

487
00:25:28.640 --> 00:25:31.039
<v Speaker 3>he's crying. Let's say he's upset that he just found

488
00:25:31.039 --> 00:25:33.200
<v Speaker 3>out his family dies, and an officer puts his arm

489
00:25:33.200 --> 00:25:34.880
<v Speaker 3>around him and shakes his hand, and it's like, you know,

490
00:25:34.920 --> 00:25:37.839
<v Speaker 3>hang in there, buddy, we're gonna be okay. That alone

491
00:25:38.200 --> 00:25:40.640
<v Speaker 3>could account for that. Or if Eddie, let's say, walks

492
00:25:40.680 --> 00:25:44.480
<v Speaker 3>by and you know, near where the event happened and

493
00:25:44.519 --> 00:25:47.319
<v Speaker 3>brushes against the wall or the door or something like that,

494
00:25:47.359 --> 00:25:51.079
<v Speaker 3>it could have easily transferred there. So oh man, it's

495
00:25:51.119 --> 00:25:53.960
<v Speaker 3>just really it's this kind of dual thought.

496
00:25:54.039 --> 00:25:54.279
<v Speaker 2>For me.

497
00:25:55.000 --> 00:25:58.440
<v Speaker 3>Eddie was the target of the police investigation, so obviously

498
00:25:58.440 --> 00:26:00.440
<v Speaker 3>you're like, well, you know, there was a re they

499
00:26:00.480 --> 00:26:04.200
<v Speaker 3>had suspicion. He's in the home he quote doesn't hear anything,

500
00:26:04.240 --> 00:26:07.480
<v Speaker 3>but neither do the neighbors. He seems to sleep through

501
00:26:07.519 --> 00:26:10.440
<v Speaker 3>their murders, and his poor grandmother finds the deceased family

502
00:26:10.519 --> 00:26:15.160
<v Speaker 3>members and then him sleeping. So it seems odd. But

503
00:26:15.200 --> 00:26:16.880
<v Speaker 3>then you step back and you also have a lot

504
00:26:16.920 --> 00:26:20.559
<v Speaker 3>of grief for him, because if he is not the

505
00:26:20.559 --> 00:26:23.240
<v Speaker 3>one who did this, and he is the one who

506
00:26:23.440 --> 00:26:26.200
<v Speaker 3>four decades has been the one the police say, that's

507
00:26:26.240 --> 00:26:28.960
<v Speaker 3>our only suspect that we have. In fact, they arrest

508
00:26:29.039 --> 00:26:31.440
<v Speaker 3>him at some point when he lands back on American soil.

509
00:26:32.039 --> 00:26:34.079
<v Speaker 3>There's a lot of empathy there of saying, my god,

510
00:26:34.160 --> 00:26:38.559
<v Speaker 3>he really he's suffered enough, and there's got to be

511
00:26:38.599 --> 00:26:41.960
<v Speaker 3>another another avenue you could at least pursue in tandem

512
00:26:42.000 --> 00:26:42.480
<v Speaker 3>with Eddie.

513
00:26:43.440 --> 00:26:45.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, as we're going to talk about, this became the

514
00:26:45.440 --> 00:26:48.759
<v Speaker 2>subject of a cold case investigation decades after the fact,

515
00:26:48.799 --> 00:26:51.359
<v Speaker 2>which is what led to Eddie being arrested. And while

516
00:26:51.359 --> 00:26:54.240
<v Speaker 2>it's unclear what new evidence they may have found against him,

517
00:26:54.279 --> 00:26:56.640
<v Speaker 2>it really does seem like they have not wavered from

518
00:26:56.680 --> 00:26:59.279
<v Speaker 2>their original belief that Eddie was the killer, even though

519
00:26:59.319 --> 00:27:02.400
<v Speaker 2>there was pretty much much almost zero evidence against him

520
00:27:02.440 --> 00:27:06.839
<v Speaker 2>other than the small traces of GSR. But theoretically, let's

521
00:27:06.839 --> 00:27:09.160
<v Speaker 2>say that Eddie did this, he would then have to

522
00:27:09.279 --> 00:27:12.200
<v Speaker 2>leave the house and dispose of the murder weapon before returning,

523
00:27:12.359 --> 00:27:14.960
<v Speaker 2>and he obviously did a pretty thorough job. Since the

524
00:27:15.000 --> 00:27:18.319
<v Speaker 2>police searched about a dozen different properties and never found anything,

525
00:27:18.960 --> 00:27:21.799
<v Speaker 2>that's certainly not impossible. But again, we're talking about a

526
00:27:21.839 --> 00:27:25.359
<v Speaker 2>seventeen year old kid, not a criminal mastermind. It's also

527
00:27:25.440 --> 00:27:28.920
<v Speaker 2>unclear if they checked Eddie's clothes for gunshot residue. By

528
00:27:29.000 --> 00:27:31.559
<v Speaker 2>his own admission, Eddie took a long shower that night,

529
00:27:31.640 --> 00:27:33.880
<v Speaker 2>which would have given him an opportunity to clean up

530
00:27:33.880 --> 00:27:36.559
<v Speaker 2>potential evidence. And if it turned out that he also

531
00:27:36.640 --> 00:27:39.440
<v Speaker 2>threw his clothing into the washing machine shortly before the

532
00:27:39.440 --> 00:27:42.960
<v Speaker 2>bodies were discovered, then yes, that would look very suspicious.

533
00:27:43.480 --> 00:27:46.079
<v Speaker 2>But again, I don't see any indication that his clothing

534
00:27:46.160 --> 00:27:48.960
<v Speaker 2>was tested. I've seen a map of the layout of

535
00:27:49.000 --> 00:27:51.839
<v Speaker 2>the Mills residence and it looks like they had two bathrooms.

536
00:27:52.359 --> 00:27:54.759
<v Speaker 2>The one more Genie's body was found was adjacent to

537
00:27:54.799 --> 00:27:57.440
<v Speaker 2>the main bedroom, but the second bathroom was in the

538
00:27:57.440 --> 00:28:01.400
<v Speaker 2>hallway next to Eddie's room. E's have been specifically stated

539
00:28:01.400 --> 00:28:04.119
<v Speaker 2>at what point during the evening Eddie claimed he took

540
00:28:04.119 --> 00:28:07.000
<v Speaker 2>a shower. If the murders took place while he was

541
00:28:07.039 --> 00:28:09.640
<v Speaker 2>inside the shower, then I actually believe he might not

542
00:28:09.680 --> 00:28:11.680
<v Speaker 2>have heard the shots, and if he then went straight

543
00:28:11.720 --> 00:28:14.039
<v Speaker 2>to his room without looking through the doorway of his

544
00:28:14.079 --> 00:28:16.759
<v Speaker 2>parents' bedroom, he might not have noticed his family was

545
00:28:16.839 --> 00:28:20.200
<v Speaker 2>lying dead inside. However, the intruder would have had to

546
00:28:20.240 --> 00:28:22.799
<v Speaker 2>pass the bathroom in order to reach the bedroom, so

547
00:28:22.839 --> 00:28:24.640
<v Speaker 2>what they have not heard the sound of the shower

548
00:28:24.680 --> 00:28:25.759
<v Speaker 2>and checked inside there.

549
00:28:27.680 --> 00:28:29.440
<v Speaker 3>Well, also you got to think if it was like

550
00:28:29.519 --> 00:28:31.839
<v Speaker 3>we talked about earlier, where someone came in, let's say

551
00:28:31.880 --> 00:28:34.519
<v Speaker 3>as an intruder, or they were looking for money and

552
00:28:34.559 --> 00:28:37.799
<v Speaker 3>they didn't get what they wanted. Let's say Dad became confrontational.

553
00:28:38.000 --> 00:28:40.880
<v Speaker 3>Let's say Mom tried to you know, push them or

554
00:28:40.920 --> 00:28:42.920
<v Speaker 3>take the gun out of their hand or something like that,

555
00:28:43.559 --> 00:28:46.440
<v Speaker 3>and they end up shooting them. And there's a panic.

556
00:28:46.720 --> 00:28:50.160
<v Speaker 3>Even if they knew there's somebody in the shower, there's

557
00:28:50.759 --> 00:28:53.079
<v Speaker 3>clear evidence that that person that has no way of

558
00:28:53.160 --> 00:28:56.599
<v Speaker 3>knowing they were in there or identifying who they are.

559
00:28:56.680 --> 00:28:58.839
<v Speaker 3>So they're just like, you know, forget it, and they

560
00:28:58.920 --> 00:29:01.039
<v Speaker 3>run out the front door, out the door, and so

561
00:29:01.480 --> 00:29:03.880
<v Speaker 3>I could see them being aware that he's in there,

562
00:29:04.160 --> 00:29:07.680
<v Speaker 3>and because the water is still running, there's no risks

563
00:29:07.720 --> 00:29:09.559
<v Speaker 3>to them. And they said, oh my god, we didn't

564
00:29:09.559 --> 00:29:11.359
<v Speaker 3>come here to kill someone. We just killed three people.

565
00:29:11.440 --> 00:29:12.160
<v Speaker 3>And off they go.

566
00:29:12.839 --> 00:29:15.880
<v Speaker 1>And what if they're interrupted, if like they think that

567
00:29:16.000 --> 00:29:18.759
<v Speaker 1>somebody could have heard them, seen them, and they planned

568
00:29:18.799 --> 00:29:20.880
<v Speaker 1>on being there longer, and they might have planned on

569
00:29:21.200 --> 00:29:23.640
<v Speaker 1>ending Eddie's life, but because he was in the shower,

570
00:29:24.000 --> 00:29:25.799
<v Speaker 1>they had to hurry and end the lives of the

571
00:29:25.799 --> 00:29:28.440
<v Speaker 1>people who were there and had seen their faces, and

572
00:29:28.480 --> 00:29:31.440
<v Speaker 1>then they rushed out without him, And like, they would

573
00:29:31.440 --> 00:29:33.599
<v Speaker 1>have had to have happened really fast if that was

574
00:29:33.640 --> 00:29:36.039
<v Speaker 1>the case, because what is the typical time that a

575
00:29:36.079 --> 00:29:38.720
<v Speaker 1>teenage boy takes in the shower, like what like eight minutes?

576
00:29:39.839 --> 00:29:41.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so it could be a thing where they hear

577
00:29:41.920 --> 00:29:44.640
<v Speaker 2>the shower running. But they figure, well, if he's in there,

578
00:29:44.680 --> 00:29:47.559
<v Speaker 2>then obviously he can't identify us. He's not a witness,

579
00:29:47.599 --> 00:29:49.720
<v Speaker 2>and they figure it might be an even bigger risk

580
00:29:49.799 --> 00:29:52.200
<v Speaker 2>if we go into the bathroom and kill him. So

581
00:29:52.279 --> 00:29:54.279
<v Speaker 2>if they left the house in a panic, then they

582
00:29:54.640 --> 00:29:56.559
<v Speaker 2>probably could have figured, well, we're not going to worry

583
00:29:56.640 --> 00:29:58.759
<v Speaker 2>about the person in the bathroom because we're still going

584
00:29:58.799 --> 00:29:59.480
<v Speaker 2>to get away with it.

585
00:30:01.759 --> 00:30:04.920
<v Speaker 1>This same logic applies if Eddie was inside his bedroom

586
00:30:04.960 --> 00:30:09.119
<v Speaker 1>watching television while the murders took place. Theoretically, the volume

587
00:30:09.160 --> 00:30:11.640
<v Speaker 1>could have been loud enough to drown out the gunshots.

588
00:30:12.000 --> 00:30:14.000
<v Speaker 1>But wouldn't the intruder have been able to hear the

589
00:30:14.039 --> 00:30:17.519
<v Speaker 1>television from outside and entered the bedroom to check. We

590
00:30:17.640 --> 00:30:20.119
<v Speaker 1>read an article about this case published in a nineteen

591
00:30:20.200 --> 00:30:24.000
<v Speaker 1>ninety two issue of Psychology Today magazine which stated that

592
00:30:24.119 --> 00:30:26.279
<v Speaker 1>Eddie had also been listening to a stereo in his

593
00:30:26.359 --> 00:30:30.200
<v Speaker 1>bedroom with headphones on. If true, this would explain how

594
00:30:30.319 --> 00:30:34.000
<v Speaker 1>Eddie could have conceivably not heard the gunshots without making

595
00:30:34.039 --> 00:30:37.039
<v Speaker 1>any noise to attract attention. But we've not seen that

596
00:30:37.119 --> 00:30:41.039
<v Speaker 1>detail about the headphones mentioned in any other source, including

597
00:30:41.079 --> 00:30:44.599
<v Speaker 1>the dozens of newspaper articles written about these murders, so

598
00:30:44.799 --> 00:30:48.400
<v Speaker 1>I can confirm if that particular detail is true. In

599
00:30:48.559 --> 00:30:51.680
<v Speaker 1>Eddie's defense, none of the other neighbors or residents in

600
00:30:51.720 --> 00:30:55.480
<v Speaker 1>the area reported hearing gunshots that night either. The murder

601
00:30:55.519 --> 00:30:58.720
<v Speaker 1>weapon was a twenty two caliber pistol, which does make

602
00:30:58.799 --> 00:31:01.519
<v Speaker 1>some noise, but there are some YouTube videos out there

603
00:31:01.599 --> 00:31:04.279
<v Speaker 1>about people putting a suppressor on a twenty two before

604
00:31:04.319 --> 00:31:07.279
<v Speaker 1>firing it, and the sound really wasn't all that loud

605
00:31:07.319 --> 00:31:10.359
<v Speaker 1>at all. So if an intruder used some sort of

606
00:31:10.400 --> 00:31:13.880
<v Speaker 1>silencer when they fired these shots, then it isn't quite

607
00:31:13.920 --> 00:31:16.680
<v Speaker 1>as hard to believe that Eddie might not have heard it. Well.

608
00:31:16.720 --> 00:31:19.640
<v Speaker 1>There were no signs of forced entry. The Mills's neighbors

609
00:31:19.640 --> 00:31:22.519
<v Speaker 1>confirmed that it wasn't uncommon for them to leave the

610
00:31:22.519 --> 00:31:26.079
<v Speaker 1>front door unlocked, so it's not completely implausible that an

611
00:31:26.119 --> 00:31:28.680
<v Speaker 1>intruder could have just walked into the house and committed

612
00:31:28.680 --> 00:31:30.400
<v Speaker 1>these murders without Eddie noticing.

613
00:31:31.119 --> 00:31:33.200
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I think it's really possible. I mean, I'm in

614
00:31:33.240 --> 00:31:34.920
<v Speaker 3>the if I'm in the zone and I'm singing in

615
00:31:35.000 --> 00:31:36.960
<v Speaker 3>the shower and things like that, I don't hear the

616
00:31:37.000 --> 00:31:40.200
<v Speaker 3>baby cry, I don't hear things. My bedroom door shut,

617
00:31:40.240 --> 00:31:42.480
<v Speaker 3>there's the you know, I'm in the shower, the water's running.

618
00:31:43.160 --> 00:31:46.200
<v Speaker 3>Sometimes you're making noise yourself or you know, so I

619
00:31:46.599 --> 00:31:48.319
<v Speaker 3>could absolutely.

620
00:31:47.640 --> 00:31:48.680
<v Speaker 2>See him not hearing.

621
00:31:49.359 --> 00:31:52.839
<v Speaker 3>And then again, I I'm going back to could the

622
00:31:53.039 --> 00:31:55.599
<v Speaker 3>daughter have been the target? If there's these three men,

623
00:31:56.519 --> 00:31:59.799
<v Speaker 3>is it possible that she just shared information with the

624
00:31:59.799 --> 00:32:03.079
<v Speaker 3>wrong people? You know that she know she was in

625
00:32:03.079 --> 00:32:05.440
<v Speaker 3>a vulnerable position with a group of people that she

626
00:32:05.599 --> 00:32:08.319
<v Speaker 3>thought might have cared about her. Was expressing things, could

627
00:32:08.319 --> 00:32:11.079
<v Speaker 3>have disclosed my parents have this at the house, or

628
00:32:11.519 --> 00:32:13.920
<v Speaker 3>you know, my parents are loaded. Could there have been

629
00:32:14.039 --> 00:32:19.160
<v Speaker 3>something where she accidentally shared confidential information or something that

630
00:32:19.240 --> 00:32:23.359
<v Speaker 3>made her family vulnerable and they came in and again

631
00:32:23.640 --> 00:32:26.000
<v Speaker 3>attacked for some reason, maybe not even being the main

632
00:32:26.240 --> 00:32:30.640
<v Speaker 3>goal to hurt somebody, but maybe she recognized them, and

633
00:32:30.920 --> 00:32:33.000
<v Speaker 3>you know, then they freaked down and they thought that

634
00:32:33.000 --> 00:32:35.319
<v Speaker 3>they had to kill them. I but I do believe

635
00:32:35.400 --> 00:32:37.480
<v Speaker 3>Eddie could have not heard the sounds for sure.

636
00:32:38.279 --> 00:32:40.839
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean, it is possible that all these murders

637
00:32:40.880 --> 00:32:42.960
<v Speaker 2>have nothing to do with the People's Temple, nothing to

638
00:32:43.000 --> 00:32:46.920
<v Speaker 2>do with Jonestown or Al or Genie. And like you said,

639
00:32:46.960 --> 00:32:50.119
<v Speaker 2>maybe Da Fien was the intended target, or she shared

640
00:32:50.200 --> 00:32:53.160
<v Speaker 2>information about her parents storing valuables in the house. And

641
00:32:53.920 --> 00:32:56.960
<v Speaker 2>because law enforcement was so focused on the People's Temple

642
00:32:57.000 --> 00:33:00.319
<v Speaker 2>angle and was so focused on Eddie, this particular angle

643
00:33:00.400 --> 00:33:02.680
<v Speaker 2>just slipped right through their fingers. And that's why no

644
00:33:02.720 --> 00:33:05.279
<v Speaker 2>one has popped up on the radar as a suspect

645
00:33:05.279 --> 00:33:08.400
<v Speaker 2>of personal interest as long as the perpetrators have managed

646
00:33:08.440 --> 00:33:10.720
<v Speaker 2>to keep quiet about it for the past forty five years.

647
00:33:11.440 --> 00:33:14.759
<v Speaker 2>But if Eddie was the perpetrator, his plan was rather odd.

648
00:33:15.440 --> 00:33:18.319
<v Speaker 2>After disposing of the murder weapon, he shuts himself inside

649
00:33:18.319 --> 00:33:21.400
<v Speaker 2>his bedroom until his grandmother arrives and discovers the bodies.

650
00:33:22.160 --> 00:33:24.960
<v Speaker 2>I know it's not uncommon for killers to deliberately arrange

651
00:33:24.960 --> 00:33:28.400
<v Speaker 2>things so that independent eye witnesses discover their victims' bodies,

652
00:33:28.799 --> 00:33:31.359
<v Speaker 2>But did Edy know beforehand that his grandmother was going

653
00:33:31.400 --> 00:33:34.039
<v Speaker 2>to be visiting the cottage at that particular time of night.

654
00:33:34.720 --> 00:33:36.480
<v Speaker 2>I mean, what if she had decided to show up

655
00:33:36.519 --> 00:33:39.839
<v Speaker 2>while he was outside disposing of the murder weapon. Again,

656
00:33:39.920 --> 00:33:43.240
<v Speaker 2>this is an inexperienced kid, not a criminal mastermind, but

657
00:33:43.359 --> 00:33:45.519
<v Speaker 2>you'd think a guilty person would try to concoct a

658
00:33:45.559 --> 00:33:48.599
<v Speaker 2>better cover story. Then I was directly across the hall

659
00:33:48.640 --> 00:33:50.720
<v Speaker 2>of my bedroom while my family was shot, and I

660
00:33:50.759 --> 00:33:54.559
<v Speaker 2>didn't hear anything. In terms of potential motive, Eddie did

661
00:33:54.599 --> 00:33:57.319
<v Speaker 2>wind up inheriting over two hundred thousand dollars from his

662
00:33:57.400 --> 00:34:00.400
<v Speaker 2>family's estate, though he did not actually receive any of

663
00:34:00.400 --> 00:34:04.200
<v Speaker 2>that money until over three years later. Now, Alan Jeanie

664
00:34:04.240 --> 00:34:06.960
<v Speaker 2>had arranged things so that their estate was divided equally,

665
00:34:07.160 --> 00:34:10.119
<v Speaker 2>as all of their children were from previous marriages rather

666
00:34:10.159 --> 00:34:13.119
<v Speaker 2>than with each other. This meant that when the assets

667
00:34:13.119 --> 00:34:16.239
<v Speaker 2>were dispersed, Eddie wound up getting the largest portion since

668
00:34:16.239 --> 00:34:19.880
<v Speaker 2>he was Genie's only surviving heir, whereas Al's three children

669
00:34:19.920 --> 00:34:22.360
<v Speaker 2>had to divide up his portion of the estate, which

670
00:34:22.440 --> 00:34:25.679
<v Speaker 2>is why they got smaller amounts. The point is that

671
00:34:25.719 --> 00:34:28.119
<v Speaker 2>it's unclear if Eddie would have even been aware how

672
00:34:28.159 --> 00:34:31.039
<v Speaker 2>much money he was entitled to receive following these murders.

673
00:34:31.440 --> 00:34:33.280
<v Speaker 2>So I can't be certain if that would have been

674
00:34:33.320 --> 00:34:36.960
<v Speaker 2>his primary motive. I guess an alternate possibility is that

675
00:34:37.079 --> 00:34:39.559
<v Speaker 2>Eddie could have gotten someone else to kill his family

676
00:34:39.639 --> 00:34:42.400
<v Speaker 2>and get rid of the murder weapon when they left. So,

677
00:34:42.599 --> 00:34:44.880
<v Speaker 2>even if the eyewitness account of the three men leaving

678
00:34:44.920 --> 00:34:47.800
<v Speaker 2>the house and Linda's story about the anonymous phone call

679
00:34:47.920 --> 00:34:50.920
<v Speaker 2>are accurate, that just means that there were others involved

680
00:34:50.960 --> 00:34:53.840
<v Speaker 2>in the crime and Eddie is still guilty. But then,

681
00:34:53.880 --> 00:34:56.400
<v Speaker 2>why would anyone agree to murder Eddie's family on his

682
00:34:56.440 --> 00:34:59.400
<v Speaker 2>behalf as a seventeen year old. It's not like he

683
00:34:59.400 --> 00:35:01.559
<v Speaker 2>would have had mone much money to pay them. So

684
00:35:01.760 --> 00:35:03.920
<v Speaker 2>as it stands, we do have a few reasons to

685
00:35:03.920 --> 00:35:07.239
<v Speaker 2>be suspicious of Eddie, but not much actionable evidence which

686
00:35:07.280 --> 00:35:08.960
<v Speaker 2>could be used to prosecute him in court.

687
00:35:10.119 --> 00:35:13.239
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, he'd have to be a pretty sophisticated individual and

688
00:35:13.440 --> 00:35:17.079
<v Speaker 3>be someone who could hide a severe mental illness from

689
00:35:17.079 --> 00:35:20.599
<v Speaker 3>his family. But remember, all of his family supports him

690
00:35:20.599 --> 00:35:24.000
<v Speaker 3>after the deaths. In fact, he's living with relatives and

691
00:35:24.559 --> 00:35:26.360
<v Speaker 3>an uncle I believe, right, or a brother.

692
00:35:27.000 --> 00:35:29.079
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's half brother, which was Al's son from a

693
00:35:29.159 --> 00:35:30.800
<v Speaker 2>previous marriage.

694
00:35:30.760 --> 00:35:33.599
<v Speaker 3>Right, Okay, And all the family members are defending him

695
00:35:33.599 --> 00:35:35.679
<v Speaker 3>and things of that nature. If there was even a

696
00:35:35.800 --> 00:35:39.239
<v Speaker 3>hint that you had some kind of mental illness where

697
00:35:39.280 --> 00:35:42.440
<v Speaker 3>you didn't care about other people, you had this ability

698
00:35:42.480 --> 00:35:45.800
<v Speaker 3>to probably do something pretty dark and not care. I

699
00:35:45.840 --> 00:35:47.519
<v Speaker 3>feel like the family would pick up on that when

700
00:35:47.519 --> 00:35:49.639
<v Speaker 3>he resides with you, when he lives with you, when

701
00:35:49.639 --> 00:35:53.920
<v Speaker 3>you watch his grief journey. He's a kid, So to

702
00:35:54.000 --> 00:35:56.360
<v Speaker 3>be able to hide that and to have mastered how

703
00:35:56.400 --> 00:36:02.400
<v Speaker 3>to be incredibly manipulative and dark seventeen to conceal murders

704
00:36:02.400 --> 00:36:06.599
<v Speaker 3>and any kind of elaborate plans that would be wild

705
00:36:06.719 --> 00:36:10.000
<v Speaker 3>to me. And how devious do you have to be

706
00:36:10.239 --> 00:36:13.559
<v Speaker 3>to allow your poor grandmother to walk in the house

707
00:36:13.599 --> 00:36:17.159
<v Speaker 3>and find her child deceased along with her grandbaby and

708
00:36:17.440 --> 00:36:20.000
<v Speaker 3>in law, you know, daughter or son in law, daughter

709
00:36:20.000 --> 00:36:23.760
<v Speaker 3>in law. That's that's sick that you would be like, hey,

710
00:36:23.760 --> 00:36:25.440
<v Speaker 3>you know what, I'm just gonna let her find their

711
00:36:25.599 --> 00:36:29.159
<v Speaker 3>deceased bodies and not just deceased an executed, you know,

712
00:36:29.280 --> 00:36:33.760
<v Speaker 3>three loved ones. So that adds depravity to the case.

713
00:36:33.760 --> 00:36:35.679
<v Speaker 3>If you think that Eddie's the one who orchestrated it,

714
00:36:36.639 --> 00:36:40.280
<v Speaker 3>he's going to harass another person in the family via

715
00:36:40.320 --> 00:36:42.360
<v Speaker 3>a phone call he's going to get the grandmother to

716
00:36:42.480 --> 00:36:44.920
<v Speaker 3>walk in and have this tragedy occur for her, and

717
00:36:44.960 --> 00:36:46.400
<v Speaker 3>then he's going to be able to live out a

718
00:36:46.440 --> 00:36:50.280
<v Speaker 3>life where he doesn't reflect any kind of behavior that

719
00:36:50.360 --> 00:36:55.679
<v Speaker 3>indicates he's capable. It's quite advanced at starting at age seventeen.

720
00:36:56.119 --> 00:36:59.000
<v Speaker 1>I think the fact that the family supports Eddie speaks

721
00:36:59.079 --> 00:37:02.679
<v Speaker 1>really highly for him, especially when you factor in the

722
00:37:02.760 --> 00:37:06.039
<v Speaker 1>situation where we know that when inheritances are involved, people

723
00:37:06.079 --> 00:37:09.440
<v Speaker 1>can get really weird about money in the best of circumstances,

724
00:37:09.840 --> 00:37:12.880
<v Speaker 1>But when there's a family that's deceased and you believe

725
00:37:12.920 --> 00:37:17.679
<v Speaker 1>that your biological parent has been murdered by your half brother,

726
00:37:18.239 --> 00:37:22.440
<v Speaker 1>then you're likely to tell law enforcement. And the reasons

727
00:37:22.480 --> 00:37:26.280
<v Speaker 1>would be twofold, probably because you want justice, and the

728
00:37:26.400 --> 00:37:28.760
<v Speaker 1>second might be because you're hoping to get a larger

729
00:37:28.800 --> 00:37:32.000
<v Speaker 1>stake of that inheritance. But they not only stood by him,

730
00:37:32.079 --> 00:37:34.920
<v Speaker 1>they had him living with them, So I think that

731
00:37:35.039 --> 00:37:37.639
<v Speaker 1>says that they don't believe that he's capable of that.

732
00:37:38.159 --> 00:37:40.000
<v Speaker 2>I definitely think it says a lot that they didn't

733
00:37:40.039 --> 00:37:42.679
<v Speaker 2>turn on him after the inheritance was split up, because

734
00:37:42.840 --> 00:37:45.320
<v Speaker 2>Al's children could have easily said, hey, it's not fair

735
00:37:45.320 --> 00:37:47.360
<v Speaker 2>that he's getting a bigger piece of the pie. He's

736
00:37:47.400 --> 00:37:49.880
<v Speaker 2>getting more money than us, and used as an excuse

737
00:37:49.920 --> 00:37:52.440
<v Speaker 2>to point the figure at him and accuse him of murder.

738
00:37:52.480 --> 00:37:54.920
<v Speaker 2>But by two thousand and five, when Eddie was being

739
00:37:55.000 --> 00:37:57.840
<v Speaker 2>arrested and charged with the murders, they were still defending

740
00:37:57.920 --> 00:38:00.480
<v Speaker 2>him after all these years, which I like you said,

741
00:38:00.480 --> 00:38:01.320
<v Speaker 2>I think says a lot.

742
00:38:02.760 --> 00:38:05.639
<v Speaker 1>Not sure the Berkeley Police Department would have reopened the

743
00:38:05.679 --> 00:38:08.639
<v Speaker 1>case and decided to arrest Eddie twenty five years after

744
00:38:08.679 --> 00:38:11.519
<v Speaker 1>the fact if the only evidence they had was a

745
00:38:11.559 --> 00:38:15.320
<v Speaker 1>microscopic trace of gunshot residue on his hand. They must

746
00:38:15.320 --> 00:38:18.000
<v Speaker 1>have dug up something else to implicate him. But whatever

747
00:38:18.039 --> 00:38:20.320
<v Speaker 1>it was, it doesn't sound like it was strong enough

748
00:38:20.320 --> 00:38:23.800
<v Speaker 1>for the District Attorney's office to charge him. After Eddie

749
00:38:23.840 --> 00:38:26.320
<v Speaker 1>was released from custody, it was interesting to read an

750
00:38:26.360 --> 00:38:29.559
<v Speaker 1>interview in the San Francisco Chronicle with Russ Lopes, the

751
00:38:29.559 --> 00:38:33.360
<v Speaker 1>cold case investigator who built the case against Eddie. Lopes

752
00:38:33.440 --> 00:38:36.000
<v Speaker 1>was brought out of retirement by the Berkeley PD to

753
00:38:36.039 --> 00:38:40.079
<v Speaker 1>specifically investigate their older cold cases, and he also worked

754
00:38:40.079 --> 00:38:43.159
<v Speaker 1>on the unsolved nineteen seventy murder of a Berkeley police

755
00:38:43.159 --> 00:38:47.320
<v Speaker 1>officer named Ronald Sukamoto. Much like the Mills case, Lopes

756
00:38:47.400 --> 00:38:49.679
<v Speaker 1>was certain he'd figured out who the guilty party was

757
00:38:49.719 --> 00:38:52.480
<v Speaker 1>in the Sukamoto murder and submitted the case to the

758
00:38:52.519 --> 00:38:56.400
<v Speaker 1>Alameda County District Attorney's office, but they did not feel

759
00:38:56.400 --> 00:38:59.559
<v Speaker 1>the evidence was strong enough to file charges. So when

760
00:38:59.599 --> 00:39:03.239
<v Speaker 1>the same thing happened with Eddie, Lopes got incredibly frustrated

761
00:39:03.239 --> 00:39:07.320
<v Speaker 1>and stated, quote, even if you're not absolutely one hundred

762
00:39:07.320 --> 00:39:09.880
<v Speaker 1>percent sure you'll win at the trial, you take it

763
00:39:09.920 --> 00:39:12.960
<v Speaker 1>to trial and let the jury decide. Weaker cases have

764
00:39:13.000 --> 00:39:16.599
<v Speaker 1>gone to trial end quote. Well, the problem is that

765
00:39:16.679 --> 00:39:20.079
<v Speaker 1>trials cost time and money, and prosecutors don't like to

766
00:39:20.119 --> 00:39:22.239
<v Speaker 1>bring cases to court if they don't believe they have

767
00:39:22.280 --> 00:39:25.760
<v Speaker 1>a good chance of winning, especially since you can't try

768
00:39:25.800 --> 00:39:29.159
<v Speaker 1>someone a second time if they're found not guilty. Eddie

769
00:39:29.159 --> 00:39:32.559
<v Speaker 1>steps sister Linda believed that Lopes had major tunnel vision

770
00:39:33.000 --> 00:39:36.400
<v Speaker 1>and refuse to consider looking at other suspects, stating quote,

771
00:39:36.840 --> 00:39:39.679
<v Speaker 1>I think he's power trippling personally, I think he's taking

772
00:39:39.719 --> 00:39:43.880
<v Speaker 1>advantage of his power end quote. Well, without knowing the

773
00:39:43.880 --> 00:39:46.599
<v Speaker 1>full details of the case that Lope submitted to the DA,

774
00:39:47.000 --> 00:39:49.840
<v Speaker 1>I have no idea if Linda's statements are accurate. But

775
00:39:49.920 --> 00:39:52.599
<v Speaker 1>I'm willing to acknowledge that there may have been tunnel

776
00:39:52.639 --> 00:39:55.440
<v Speaker 1>vision from the very beginning. And since Eddie was the

777
00:39:55.480 --> 00:39:58.639
<v Speaker 1>only one who survived the massacre, police refuse to believe

778
00:39:58.639 --> 00:39:59.960
<v Speaker 1>that anyone else was the killer.

779
00:40:01.559 --> 00:40:04.119
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I think when you look at it, it's Eddie's

780
00:40:04.159 --> 00:40:06.920
<v Speaker 3>the easy choice. Eddie's the one that you go, oh

781
00:40:06.960 --> 00:40:09.960
<v Speaker 3>my gosh, this is a kid. Remember it's the seventies

782
00:40:10.000 --> 00:40:13.800
<v Speaker 3>and love and all this other peace and love and drugs.

783
00:40:13.800 --> 00:40:16.760
<v Speaker 3>But law enforcement doesn't like these people that use drugs

784
00:40:16.760 --> 00:40:19.079
<v Speaker 3>and things. Weed was a bigger deal back then than

785
00:40:19.119 --> 00:40:22.599
<v Speaker 3>it is now. And so they come to this triple murder.

786
00:40:22.880 --> 00:40:25.400
<v Speaker 3>They see a kid who says, hey, I was stoned.

787
00:40:25.480 --> 00:40:27.440
<v Speaker 3>I was hanging out in my bedroom. Didn't hear anything.

788
00:40:28.239 --> 00:40:31.119
<v Speaker 3>There's got to be a quick frustration and a quick

789
00:40:31.440 --> 00:40:34.280
<v Speaker 3>sense of doubt to say, there's no way you slept

790
00:40:34.280 --> 00:40:37.639
<v Speaker 3>through the execution of your family. And we know that

791
00:40:37.679 --> 00:40:40.360
<v Speaker 3>there are many ways that could have happened. But for

792
00:40:40.440 --> 00:40:43.719
<v Speaker 3>a law enforcement officer, I could see this quick jump

793
00:40:43.760 --> 00:40:46.559
<v Speaker 3>to no reason you would have been spared, no reason

794
00:40:46.599 --> 00:40:48.599
<v Speaker 3>you would have been able to sleep through this, And

795
00:40:48.679 --> 00:40:54.079
<v Speaker 3>so that quick on the scene assumption then kind of

796
00:40:54.119 --> 00:40:57.519
<v Speaker 3>derails any other focus on anyone else you have Linda,

797
00:40:57.599 --> 00:41:00.679
<v Speaker 3>And Linda is the one who actually got the phone call.

798
00:41:00.719 --> 00:41:02.400
<v Speaker 2>Am I correct? Yeah, that's correct.

799
00:41:02.840 --> 00:41:06.039
<v Speaker 3>Okay, So Linda gets this phone call from a woman

800
00:41:06.159 --> 00:41:09.800
<v Speaker 3>thirty minutes after the family's been executed, before anyone would

801
00:41:09.840 --> 00:41:13.760
<v Speaker 3>possibly know that this had occurred. So to her, there

802
00:41:13.840 --> 00:41:17.280
<v Speaker 3>is such a deep, fiery conviction inside of her that

803
00:41:17.679 --> 00:41:22.719
<v Speaker 3>Eddie didn't do this. Someone was able to take information

804
00:41:22.840 --> 00:41:26.480
<v Speaker 3>from someone call me and know how to find me

805
00:41:27.199 --> 00:41:29.840
<v Speaker 3>and tell me that my family had been killed. And

806
00:41:29.880 --> 00:41:31.960
<v Speaker 3>then poor Eddie has to deal with the consequences in

807
00:41:32.000 --> 00:41:34.719
<v Speaker 3>the guilt that he's the only survivor in that home.

808
00:41:34.840 --> 00:41:39.280
<v Speaker 3>And so again I think I understand the jump to

809
00:41:39.480 --> 00:41:43.239
<v Speaker 3>a conclusion a rush like how that naturally occurred. But

810
00:41:43.320 --> 00:41:47.239
<v Speaker 3>when you step back that story that the ex boyfriend

811
00:41:47.360 --> 00:41:50.760
<v Speaker 3>saw people leaving, that he named a type of car,

812
00:41:51.039 --> 00:41:54.440
<v Speaker 3>that he passed a polygraph with the information he had provided,

813
00:41:54.800 --> 00:41:58.119
<v Speaker 3>and that Eddie doesn't have anything else, but that's tiny

814
00:41:58.199 --> 00:42:02.079
<v Speaker 3>traces of gunshot residue. You know, you can wash your

815
00:42:02.159 --> 00:42:04.760
<v Speaker 3>hands and still have gunshot residue on there. And so

816
00:42:04.920 --> 00:42:07.840
<v Speaker 3>the fact that it's possible he just simply shook hands

817
00:42:07.840 --> 00:42:12.519
<v Speaker 3>with someone and had this minute trace. I just don't

818
00:42:12.599 --> 00:42:14.840
<v Speaker 3>think it's Eddie. The more I listen to this, I

819
00:42:14.880 --> 00:42:17.800
<v Speaker 3>don't think it's Eddie because again, the number of family

820
00:42:17.800 --> 00:42:21.960
<v Speaker 3>members he had to so laxadaisically not mind that they

821
00:42:21.960 --> 00:42:24.519
<v Speaker 3>were going to be traumatized for the rest of their life.

822
00:42:24.599 --> 00:42:27.039
<v Speaker 3>His poor aunt gets his phone call to be told

823
00:42:27.079 --> 00:42:29.599
<v Speaker 3>that her family was executed. The poor grandmother walks in

824
00:42:29.639 --> 00:42:32.400
<v Speaker 3>and finds her three loved ones executed. He has to

825
00:42:32.519 --> 00:42:36.679
<v Speaker 3>deal with the relationships with all the surviving people, and

826
00:42:36.719 --> 00:42:40.360
<v Speaker 3>he stays deeply engaged in the family. If he killed them,

827
00:42:40.400 --> 00:42:43.599
<v Speaker 3>take your money and leave and don't be integrated with them.

828
00:42:43.639 --> 00:42:47.920
<v Speaker 3>But he stands beside his half siblings and he's working

829
00:42:47.960 --> 00:42:51.480
<v Speaker 3>with them through his grief, living with them, growing with them.

830
00:42:51.559 --> 00:42:54.719
<v Speaker 3>So I just don't see him staying that tightly entwined

831
00:42:54.760 --> 00:42:56.559
<v Speaker 3>with them if he was the one who caused all

832
00:42:56.559 --> 00:42:57.599
<v Speaker 3>of this in the first place.

833
00:42:58.960 --> 00:43:01.679
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, rest lopes is and really rubbed me the wrong way.

834
00:43:01.760 --> 00:43:04.000
<v Speaker 2>This idea that, well, it's a weak case, but we

835
00:43:04.159 --> 00:43:06.519
<v Speaker 2>still should have taken him to trial. But if you

836
00:43:06.599 --> 00:43:09.400
<v Speaker 2>think about well that happened, like you would have people

837
00:43:09.440 --> 00:43:12.199
<v Speaker 2>like Linda testifying about the phone call from the woman,

838
00:43:12.280 --> 00:43:14.840
<v Speaker 2>and if they were able to track down Dayfied's ex boyfriend,

839
00:43:14.880 --> 00:43:17.400
<v Speaker 2>they could have got him to testify about the men

840
00:43:17.519 --> 00:43:20.039
<v Speaker 2>seen running away from the residents and climbing into a van.

841
00:43:20.239 --> 00:43:22.599
<v Speaker 2>So that would have created a lot of reasonable doubt.

842
00:43:22.920 --> 00:43:24.559
<v Speaker 2>And I have a feeling that Eddie would have been

843
00:43:24.559 --> 00:43:27.880
<v Speaker 2>acquitted with the evidence that they had now. So the

844
00:43:27.920 --> 00:43:29.840
<v Speaker 2>fact that Lope still thinks that they should have gone

845
00:43:29.840 --> 00:43:34.760
<v Speaker 2>to trial and potentially jailed an innocent man is shows

846
00:43:34.760 --> 00:43:36.800
<v Speaker 2>that he had serious tunnel vision. And it's a good

847
00:43:36.840 --> 00:43:41.320
<v Speaker 2>thing that they elected not to file charges. One of

848
00:43:41.320 --> 00:43:43.559
<v Speaker 2>the reasons it's so easy to place all the focus

849
00:43:43.559 --> 00:43:46.280
<v Speaker 2>on Eddie is because the investigation has failed to uncover

850
00:43:46.400 --> 00:43:50.000
<v Speaker 2>any compelling alternate suspects these past four decades. But what

851
00:43:50.039 --> 00:43:52.519
<v Speaker 2>if Linda is right and the police have just refused

852
00:43:52.519 --> 00:43:55.320
<v Speaker 2>to consider other suspects, causing them to let the real

853
00:43:55.400 --> 00:43:58.440
<v Speaker 2>killer to slip through their fingers. You could be skeptical

854
00:43:58.480 --> 00:44:01.119
<v Speaker 2>of Eddie's story all you want, but it's not impossible

855
00:44:01.159 --> 00:44:03.800
<v Speaker 2>that an outside intruder could have entered the residence and

856
00:44:03.880 --> 00:44:06.079
<v Speaker 2>murdered the rest of his family while he was in

857
00:44:06.119 --> 00:44:08.880
<v Speaker 2>another room. I hate to say this, but I'm really

858
00:44:08.880 --> 00:44:11.679
<v Speaker 2>not sure where I stand on this case. Every time

859
00:44:11.719 --> 00:44:14.159
<v Speaker 2>I feel certain that Eddie must have been the perpetrator,

860
00:44:14.239 --> 00:44:16.639
<v Speaker 2>I start wondering about how he managed to get rid

861
00:44:16.639 --> 00:44:19.199
<v Speaker 2>of the murder weapon and pull this off without leaving

862
00:44:19.280 --> 00:44:22.599
<v Speaker 2>any damning evidence behind. I do think that the rumors

863
00:44:22.599 --> 00:44:25.719
<v Speaker 2>about People's Temple hit squads are bunk, but the crime

864
00:44:25.840 --> 00:44:28.280
<v Speaker 2>does still have the ear marks of her professional hit.

865
00:44:28.599 --> 00:44:31.280
<v Speaker 2>And since the Millses were high profile figures with no

866
00:44:31.400 --> 00:44:34.639
<v Speaker 2>shortage of potential enemies, I can see someone else committing

867
00:44:34.679 --> 00:44:37.239
<v Speaker 2>this crime. All I know is that the story of

868
00:44:37.320 --> 00:44:40.880
<v Speaker 2>Jim Jones, the People's Temple, and the Jonestown massacre has

869
00:44:40.920 --> 00:44:44.079
<v Speaker 2>become so iconic and larger than life that this tragic

870
00:44:44.159 --> 00:44:48.239
<v Speaker 2>epilogue to the story is somewhat overlooked. Was Jonestown actually

871
00:44:48.239 --> 00:44:50.400
<v Speaker 2>a factor in these murders or is it nothing more

872
00:44:50.440 --> 00:44:53.280
<v Speaker 2>than a red herring. Whatever the case, if you happen

873
00:44:53.320 --> 00:44:56.039
<v Speaker 2>to have any information on the unsolved murders of al

874
00:44:56.239 --> 00:44:59.960
<v Speaker 2>Jeanie and Daphene Mills, please contact the Berkeley Police Department

875
00:45:00.000 --> 00:45:02.800
<v Speaker 2>and at five one zero nine to eight one five

876
00:45:02.880 --> 00:45:05.920
<v Speaker 2>nine zero zero. That's five one zero nine eight one

877
00:45:06.280 --> 00:45:10.239
<v Speaker 2>five nine zero zero, Jules Ashley, any final thoughts in

878
00:45:10.280 --> 00:45:10.679
<v Speaker 2>the case.

879
00:45:11.960 --> 00:45:15.239
<v Speaker 3>This one's an interesting one. When you add the intrigue

880
00:45:15.280 --> 00:45:18.920
<v Speaker 3>of Jonestown and the People's Temple being part of the

881
00:45:18.920 --> 00:45:24.239
<v Speaker 3>Mills' backstory, it's really this kind of a fanatical interesting

882
00:45:24.599 --> 00:45:28.199
<v Speaker 3>case right where you say, Wow, this family was in

883
00:45:28.360 --> 00:45:32.880
<v Speaker 3>one of the most tragic, horrific historical cults we've ever seen.

884
00:45:33.199 --> 00:45:36.679
<v Speaker 3>They escaped it, and then as they're declaring that they're

885
00:45:36.760 --> 00:45:40.480
<v Speaker 3>kind of done with this pursuit of being known as

886
00:45:40.960 --> 00:45:45.400
<v Speaker 3>you know, defactors and survivors of the People's Temple, they say,

887
00:45:45.480 --> 00:45:47.159
<v Speaker 3>we're done, we want to move on, we want a

888
00:45:47.199 --> 00:45:51.000
<v Speaker 3>new life. They lose their life in a tragic execution

889
00:45:51.239 --> 00:45:54.320
<v Speaker 3>of three of the four family members in that house. Again,

890
00:45:54.880 --> 00:45:58.519
<v Speaker 3>my heart is it's torn because I understand why police

891
00:45:58.519 --> 00:46:04.000
<v Speaker 3>would suspect Eddie, but I also don't see the sophistication

892
00:46:04.079 --> 00:46:08.119
<v Speaker 3>and the ability to live a life that doesn't draw

893
00:46:08.159 --> 00:46:11.159
<v Speaker 3>suspicion to him by people who know him best. So

894
00:46:11.320 --> 00:46:15.760
<v Speaker 3>because of his family's support, and because of not just

895
00:46:15.800 --> 00:46:19.760
<v Speaker 3>the support, but evidence that the aunt was called by

896
00:46:19.760 --> 00:46:24.480
<v Speaker 3>a woman, that the ex boyfriend was came forward, and

897
00:46:24.599 --> 00:46:26.960
<v Speaker 3>that I saw people actually leaving the house, here's where

898
00:46:27.000 --> 00:46:30.559
<v Speaker 3>they were, here's what they were driving. Those kinds of

899
00:46:30.639 --> 00:46:33.880
<v Speaker 3>things make it where there's no way you could do

900
00:46:33.960 --> 00:46:36.679
<v Speaker 3>what the district attorney said and say, listen, we should

901
00:46:36.679 --> 00:46:39.840
<v Speaker 3>have taken it to trial anyway. How that's how wrongful

902
00:46:39.840 --> 00:46:44.079
<v Speaker 3>convictions occur, because beyond a reasonable doubt that can exist

903
00:46:44.119 --> 00:46:48.679
<v Speaker 3>here you have light residual gun shot residue on his hands,

904
00:46:48.760 --> 00:46:52.079
<v Speaker 3>and that the kids slept through this execution. He also

905
00:46:52.119 --> 00:46:54.559
<v Speaker 3>could have been in the shower at the time. I'm

906
00:46:54.679 --> 00:46:57.880
<v Speaker 3>leaning towards, for whatever reason, maybe known to the family

907
00:46:57.960 --> 00:47:04.199
<v Speaker 3>or not, that these individuals came into the home, wanted something,

908
00:47:04.400 --> 00:47:06.719
<v Speaker 3>and pushed the family into the master bedroom. Again, I

909
00:47:06.760 --> 00:47:10.159
<v Speaker 3>don't typically see teenagers sitting with mom and dad on

910
00:47:10.199 --> 00:47:12.880
<v Speaker 3>their bed in their bedroom. You know, maybe mom and

911
00:47:12.960 --> 00:47:15.320
<v Speaker 3>daughter in the bedroom and dad on the couch. Maybe

912
00:47:15.440 --> 00:47:18.199
<v Speaker 3>you know, dad and son in the bedroom looking at

913
00:47:18.199 --> 00:47:22.079
<v Speaker 3>something and mom on the couch, But very rarely do Dad,

914
00:47:22.199 --> 00:47:24.599
<v Speaker 3>me and the kids hang out in our bedroom. So

915
00:47:24.840 --> 00:47:27.159
<v Speaker 3>I think they were forced into the bedroom looking for

916
00:47:27.199 --> 00:47:29.639
<v Speaker 3>something of value. They didn't get what they want, or

917
00:47:29.639 --> 00:47:33.360
<v Speaker 3>they were spooped or overwhelmed, and they shot the family

918
00:47:33.760 --> 00:47:36.119
<v Speaker 3>and then they ran. They didn't have time to worry

919
00:47:36.119 --> 00:47:39.239
<v Speaker 3>about Eddie. They didn't look for Eddie, they didn't hear Eddie,

920
00:47:39.360 --> 00:47:42.360
<v Speaker 3>or they knew that he was preoccupied. So that's where

921
00:47:42.360 --> 00:47:44.280
<v Speaker 3>I'm leaning, and at the end of the day, if

922
00:47:44.280 --> 00:47:48.679
<v Speaker 3>that is true, the trauma and continual trauma that Eddie

923
00:47:48.719 --> 00:47:51.880
<v Speaker 3>has gone through is horrific. He's already suffered abuse, he

924
00:47:52.000 --> 00:47:54.079
<v Speaker 3>was part of the whole People's Temple as well with

925
00:47:54.119 --> 00:47:56.920
<v Speaker 3>his family, and so he gets out of that, he

926
00:47:57.000 --> 00:47:59.840
<v Speaker 3>loses his family, and then while he's growing his own family,

927
00:48:00.039 --> 00:48:03.480
<v Speaker 3>it's arrested and is facing charges of executing his family.

928
00:48:03.800 --> 00:48:07.320
<v Speaker 3>So it's a case that is very overwhelming emotionally when

929
00:48:07.360 --> 00:48:10.119
<v Speaker 3>you think about what these individuals had already gone through.

930
00:48:10.239 --> 00:48:13.000
<v Speaker 3>They'd lost their lives and then the trauma doesn't stop.

931
00:48:13.119 --> 00:48:17.079
<v Speaker 3>So it would be fascinating to learn if there's information

932
00:48:17.159 --> 00:48:19.800
<v Speaker 3>out there. It was quite a while ago, but you

933
00:48:19.880 --> 00:48:21.800
<v Speaker 3>never know. It takes one phone call, it takes one

934
00:48:21.840 --> 00:48:24.199
<v Speaker 3>piece of evidence coming out, and so I would be

935
00:48:25.199 --> 00:48:28.039
<v Speaker 3>thrilled to see. Is there a connection of People's Temple.

936
00:48:28.119 --> 00:48:32.719
<v Speaker 3>I leaned towards no, and honestly, it points away from

937
00:48:32.840 --> 00:48:36.079
<v Speaker 3>Eddie because in this case, what kind of vindication would

938
00:48:36.119 --> 00:48:39.079
<v Speaker 3>that be for him to say. For so many decades

939
00:48:39.119 --> 00:48:41.920
<v Speaker 3>people have assumed it was me and it wasn't.

940
00:48:42.599 --> 00:48:45.639
<v Speaker 1>I'm eighty percent leaning towards the theory that you just

941
00:48:45.679 --> 00:48:48.360
<v Speaker 1>put forward, that it isn't leaned to the people's temple.

942
00:48:48.480 --> 00:48:51.599
<v Speaker 1>It wasn't Eddie. It was random intruders or people who

943
00:48:51.639 --> 00:48:53.760
<v Speaker 1>may have known them, but they were looking for something

944
00:48:53.800 --> 00:48:56.079
<v Speaker 1>of value. There's a reason that they were all in

945
00:48:56.119 --> 00:48:58.920
<v Speaker 1>one bedroom. I think that it's a fluke that Eddie

946
00:48:58.960 --> 00:49:02.159
<v Speaker 1>was able to survive through it, and then it's unfortunate

947
00:49:02.639 --> 00:49:05.320
<v Speaker 1>with the GSR that it somehow got on his hand.

948
00:49:05.679 --> 00:49:09.519
<v Speaker 1>I just don't see this profile. Yeah, he had difficulties,

949
00:49:09.519 --> 00:49:12.320
<v Speaker 1>but would he be this killer of his family Because

950
00:49:12.320 --> 00:49:14.800
<v Speaker 1>we saw him move on, have a move to Japan,

951
00:49:15.039 --> 00:49:17.960
<v Speaker 1>get married, have a child. It doesn't seem like he

952
00:49:18.000 --> 00:49:20.840
<v Speaker 1>would have been all that disturbed and his family stood

953
00:49:20.880 --> 00:49:23.000
<v Speaker 1>by his side. And I really do think that that

954
00:49:23.159 --> 00:49:25.960
<v Speaker 1>speaks highly of him, and I think it speaks highly

955
00:49:26.000 --> 00:49:28.119
<v Speaker 1>of his family as well, that they were so loyal

956
00:49:28.199 --> 00:49:31.679
<v Speaker 1>to him in the face of so much judgment. But

957
00:49:31.840 --> 00:49:35.599
<v Speaker 1>also it could have been more of a financial windfall

958
00:49:35.679 --> 00:49:38.159
<v Speaker 1>for them if they turned on him, if they truly

959
00:49:38.199 --> 00:49:40.840
<v Speaker 1>believed that he was capable of that, and they just didn't.

960
00:49:40.880 --> 00:49:44.199
<v Speaker 1>They thought the investigator had tunnel vision. And I hate

961
00:49:44.199 --> 00:49:47.280
<v Speaker 1>to say it, but it seems like that is a possibility.

962
00:49:47.760 --> 00:49:50.360
<v Speaker 1>I mean, with the other case that he had and

963
00:49:50.400 --> 00:49:52.840
<v Speaker 1>it didn't have the resolution that he hoped that it did.

964
00:49:52.880 --> 00:49:54.559
<v Speaker 1>It seemed like he was throwing as much at the

965
00:49:54.599 --> 00:49:57.239
<v Speaker 1>wall as he could and he was hoping something would stick.

966
00:49:57.320 --> 00:49:59.840
<v Speaker 1>And I am compassionate for somebody putting in a lot

967
00:49:59.840 --> 00:50:03.519
<v Speaker 1>of effort after they've retired and not getting the results

968
00:50:03.599 --> 00:50:06.199
<v Speaker 1>that they want. But you can't try to throw everything

969
00:50:06.239 --> 00:50:09.920
<v Speaker 1>at somebody who might be innocent without focusing on who

970
00:50:10.039 --> 00:50:13.199
<v Speaker 1>else could have done it. I think it's just lazy

971
00:50:13.280 --> 00:50:16.679
<v Speaker 1>and really easy to say Eddie's the guy because he's

972
00:50:16.719 --> 00:50:20.079
<v Speaker 1>the one surviving family member, But the evidence is so

973
00:50:20.400 --> 00:50:23.480
<v Speaker 1>weak that I just lean away from Eddie being responsible.

974
00:50:24.280 --> 00:50:26.760
<v Speaker 2>I remember first learning about this case several years ago

975
00:50:26.760 --> 00:50:28.960
<v Speaker 2>because I included it in an article I wrote for

976
00:50:29.039 --> 00:50:32.199
<v Speaker 2>Lispers dot com, and after reading just the basic summary,

977
00:50:32.280 --> 00:50:34.480
<v Speaker 2>I thought, Okay, Eddie had to have done this. It

978
00:50:34.559 --> 00:50:37.280
<v Speaker 2>just seems so illogical that he would be left alone

979
00:50:37.320 --> 00:50:39.639
<v Speaker 2>in his bedroom while his entire family was killed and

980
00:50:39.639 --> 00:50:42.559
<v Speaker 2>claimed that he didn't see or hear anything. But once

981
00:50:42.599 --> 00:50:44.679
<v Speaker 2>I started researching this, when I covered it on the

982
00:50:44.679 --> 00:50:47.360
<v Speaker 2>trail went cold about five years ago, it seemed less

983
00:50:47.440 --> 00:50:50.239
<v Speaker 2>likely that Eddie was the perpetrator because it means he

984
00:50:50.239 --> 00:50:53.360
<v Speaker 2>would have to do this dastardly crime at age seventeen,

985
00:50:53.480 --> 00:50:56.800
<v Speaker 2>get rid of the murder weapon, leave no evidence behind

986
00:50:56.840 --> 00:51:00.079
<v Speaker 2>besides small traces of gunshot residue in his hand, and

987
00:51:00.119 --> 00:51:03.079
<v Speaker 2>then go on to cool his surviving half siblings and

988
00:51:03.119 --> 00:51:06.000
<v Speaker 2>live a normal life for the next several decades and

989
00:51:06.280 --> 00:51:09.199
<v Speaker 2>move to Japan, start a family, have children of his own,

990
00:51:09.679 --> 00:51:12.119
<v Speaker 2>and then just commit no other crimes or cause no

991
00:51:12.199 --> 00:51:15.119
<v Speaker 2>other trouble. So as implausible as a story may sound,

992
00:51:15.199 --> 00:51:18.199
<v Speaker 2>it does seem more likely that the Mills family were

993
00:51:18.280 --> 00:51:21.440
<v Speaker 2>killed by intruders who overlooked Eddie. But I really don't

994
00:51:21.480 --> 00:51:23.960
<v Speaker 2>know what the actual motive could have been. I really

995
00:51:23.960 --> 00:51:26.480
<v Speaker 2>don't believe it was anything to do with the people's temple.

996
00:51:26.920 --> 00:51:29.000
<v Speaker 2>I think the whole hit squad was a myth, and

997
00:51:29.079 --> 00:51:31.840
<v Speaker 2>the fact that this took place fifteen months after the

998
00:51:31.920 --> 00:51:35.360
<v Speaker 2>Jonestown massacre makes me think that there's no real connection.

999
00:51:35.639 --> 00:51:38.119
<v Speaker 2>So I think they were killed for other reasons, but

1000
00:51:38.280 --> 00:51:40.400
<v Speaker 2>I just don't know what it was if it had

1001
00:51:40.400 --> 00:51:43.519
<v Speaker 2>something to do with Dave Fiene, or if maybe it

1002
00:51:43.559 --> 00:51:46.400
<v Speaker 2>was a robbery gone wrong, maybe the intruders were looking

1003
00:51:46.440 --> 00:51:49.480
<v Speaker 2>for something inside the house. But I do think that

1004
00:51:49.519 --> 00:51:52.519
<v Speaker 2>there is credible evidence plenty to outside intruders, like the

1005
00:51:52.559 --> 00:51:56.039
<v Speaker 2>phone call that Linda received, and also the eyewitness sighting

1006
00:51:56.079 --> 00:51:58.679
<v Speaker 2>of the three men exiting the house and climbing into

1007
00:51:58.719 --> 00:52:02.119
<v Speaker 2>a van. So whoever it was, if there were multiple

1008
00:52:02.119 --> 00:52:04.880
<v Speaker 2>people involved, it sounds like they did an effective job

1009
00:52:04.880 --> 00:52:07.719
<v Speaker 2>at keeping their mouths shut and got very lucky that

1010
00:52:07.760 --> 00:52:10.760
<v Speaker 2>the police focused entirely on Eddie so that they could

1011
00:52:10.760 --> 00:52:13.519
<v Speaker 2>just slip under the radar. I mean, so much time

1012
00:52:13.559 --> 00:52:16.159
<v Speaker 2>has passed at Eddie is now in his early sixties.

1013
00:52:16.199 --> 00:52:18.159
<v Speaker 2>I hope he has lived a happy life. I don't

1014
00:52:18.199 --> 00:52:21.440
<v Speaker 2>know if he's still in Japan, but obviously, even before

1015
00:52:21.480 --> 00:52:23.599
<v Speaker 2>his family was killed, he had to undergo a lot

1016
00:52:23.599 --> 00:52:26.639
<v Speaker 2>of trauma growing up in the People's Temple and having

1017
00:52:26.679 --> 00:52:29.639
<v Speaker 2>to experience a lot of abuse living in a cult.

1018
00:52:29.760 --> 00:52:32.079
<v Speaker 2>So I hope he has lived in peace, and the

1019
00:52:32.119 --> 00:52:34.320
<v Speaker 2>fact that he has never lost the support of the

1020
00:52:34.360 --> 00:52:37.639
<v Speaker 2>rest of his family I think speaks volumes. But yeah,

1021
00:52:37.719 --> 00:52:40.280
<v Speaker 2>just a very weird case and an odd epilogue to

1022
00:52:40.280 --> 00:52:42.800
<v Speaker 2>one of the biggest tragedies of all time. But in

1023
00:52:42.840 --> 00:52:44.920
<v Speaker 2>the end, I do think that Jim Jones and the

1024
00:52:44.960 --> 00:52:48.400
<v Speaker 2>whole Jonestown massacre and the People's Temple were nothing more

1025
00:52:48.440 --> 00:52:49.199
<v Speaker 2>than a red herring