Speaker 1: Hello everybody, and welcome to the Surely Can't Be Serious podcast,
discussing and debating the iconic and the forgotten of eighties
and nineties pop culture with your co hosts James D.
Graves and Jason Colvin.
Speaker 2: All Right, welcome everybody. I am William Wallace.
Speaker 3: And I am Jason Maximus Calvinists.
Speaker 2: Welcome everybody. We're going to talk today about Braveheart and Gladiator.
Speaker 3: These are great movies. I can't wait to get into these.
These are Best picture winners.
Speaker 2: So join us as we dive in and enjoy the
fight of the warriors. This is awesome.
Speaker 3: I can't wait to dive into what we're talking about today.
Speaker 2: I just realized we've been going on for episode after
episode and we haven't talked about ourselves at all. Right,
I mean, I don't care about talking about myself, but
I want you guys to meet my friend Jason Colvin,
who is awesome in all kinds of ways. But to
save time, I'll tell you one of those ways. Jason
is the only guy who've ever met who can hear
a song, and even if it's just a few notes,
can say here's the song, here's the artist, and here's
the year that it was released with almost one hundred
percent accuracy. He's fantastic guy. Me and Casey Caseon. That's right, right,
and I should limit just to keep him humble. This
only applies to the years nineteen eighty two through the
year's nineteen ninety eight.
Speaker 3: That is the truth. That is the truth. It's gotta
be in my sweet spot. For those who don't know you,
your name is James D. Grays, but you go by
the name D.
Speaker 2: Sure, I know you as D. It's okay if you
call me James, but my friend and can we call
you Jimmy. That's what my wife called.
Speaker 3: When she does that. It's so funny. And just to
tell you a little bit about my friend D. D
is a really bright guy, super super smart. When we're
playing trivial Pursuit and I asked him a question, either
I know it or I don't, there's no in between,
and he walks down the hallways of his brain and
he digs out more stuff and it always surprises me.
It takes like thirty seconds and then he comes up
with the right answer. So super bright guy and just
a lot of fun I love D. He's one of
my best buddies.
Speaker 2: Some guys have rooms in a mental mansion. I have
little index cards and a mental rollodex that I have
to flip through and either I have it or I
don't have it.
Speaker 3: All right, So we're going to talk about two best
picture movies.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is a unique episode. This. You know, you
guys have listened to us so far. You've heard us
talk about Michael Jackson's Bad Album and Thriller Album, which
we both loved, one of us just loved one more
than the other. True. You've heard us talk about Airplane
versus Spaceballs, which we have the same opinion on. We
thought we both thought Balls didn't quite hold up. Airplane
is the winner on that one, Yes. And then you've
heard us talk about Van Halen van Hagar, which again
we have different opinions on, but we both enjoy both
of them. Yes. And then you heard us talk about
Raiders versus Back in the Future. Both loved both movies,
both had slightly differing opinions on it. This one, this
one's unique. Yeah, we're talking about two movies and Jason
likes one of them and doesn't like the other one.
And I like that one and he doesn't like it.
Speaker 3: It's gonna be interesting. Yeah, I'm just to dive into this.
Speaker 2: And typically we hold off judgment until the end, but
I just got I got to come out right now,
and I'm just gonna say it. I love Brave Heart
and Gladiator can take a hike. I don't care if
I never see it again.
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh. Okay, and Gladiators one of my all
time favorite movies. And Brave Heart, Eh, all right, so wrong,
so wrong.
Speaker 2: Brave Heart came out in nineteen ninety five.
Speaker 3: May fourth, nineteen ninety five. Is the reallyt state of
Brave Heart.
Speaker 2: Going back to nineteen ninety five, I'm listening to Wonderwall
Bio Oasis. I am listening to Fake Plastic Trees by Radiohead.
I'm listening to You Ought to Know by alanis More
set those are top three, what about you?
Speaker 3: Definitely? Alanas More said Jague. Littlepill and Deflective Soul was
my other favorite at ninety five.
Speaker 2: Oh you know what else?
Speaker 3: The Champagne Supernova by Oasis one of my all time
favorite songs.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there were a whole lot of things that came
out in ninety five, but we will all remember this sound.
So in nineteen ninety five sad event the last cartoon
of Calvin or Hopps. My favorite comic Sunday Morning.
Speaker 3: It's not even close. The guy Bill Watterson is a.
Speaker 4: Genius, absolute genius, all right.
Speaker 2: And in the year nineteen ninety five we had the
release of the movie Braveheart. Will give you a quick
overview of the plot simply this, will Wallace, in revenge
for the murder of his new bride, sets out to
fight the English to free the Scots from the oppression
of the English king Longshanks. Several battles take place in
which they are successful, but ultimately William Wallace is captured
and executed, only to return in the afterlife to his
seised wife, and ultimately the Scots win their freedom under
the leadership of Robert the Brooks. Okay, so now let's
take a look at what happened in the year two thousand.
Speaker 3: Gladiator was released May fifth, two thousand.
Speaker 2: Okay, so almost exactly five years apart these two movies.
Speaker 3: Yeah, very close. What were you listening to the year
two thousand?
Speaker 2: Okay? So I listened to kid A by Radiohead. You
couldn't get away from Slim Shady, You couldn't get away
from Yellow by Coldplay or Oops, I did it Again
by Britney Spears, or Bye Bye Bye by in Sync
Nice what about you? Or you listened to in two thousand?
Speaker 3: Oh gosh in two thousand. So I'm starting to move
out of pop music. I've got a job in my life.
I listened to Third Eye Blind a lot, huh at
that time. And that's pretty much it. Okay, not much,
not an instinct fan moving out.
Speaker 2: It wasn't really a very good year for music. I
gotta say, comparing ninety five to two thousand ninety five
is a clear winner on quality of the music.
Speaker 3: All Right, all right, this one's kind of a sad
note for me. The final comic strip for Peanuts is released,
and Charles Schultz actually passes away in two thousand. Okay,
so that's what was happening in the year two thousand.
Speaker 2: All right. And then, as you said, May the movie
Gladiators released.
Speaker 3: Yes, so we want to do the quick pop overview.
Speaker 2: Yeah, all right.
Speaker 3: Maximus, a powerful Roman general who is loved by his
soldiers and by the Emperor Marcus Aurelius, is on the
battlefield when the emperor chooses Maximus to take over as
protector of Rome, but Marcus Aurelius decides the communist is
not a moral man and can't take the throne. So
Commas then decides to kill the emperor and attempts to
kill Maximus. He does, in fact kill his wife and children.
Maximus vows revenge, but he's captured and made it to
be a gladiator. Now his only way of getting close
enough to the emperor is becoming great as a gladiator,
so he can get close enough to exact his revenge
on the Emperor. Commdists General then became a slave. The
slave who became a gladiator. Gladiator defied the prop all right,
So that was that's the plot overview for Gladiator.
Speaker 2: All right. So let's now talk about a little bit
of the backstory for these movies. I'll begin Braveheart. It
begins back in nineteen eighty three. Randall Wallace is interested
in his heritage but doesn't know anything about it. Is
on a trip to Edinburgh, Scotland, and he encounters the
large statue of William Wallace, sees that they both have
the same last name. He imagines what it would have
been like to be related to him, and ultimately ends
up with the epic poem by Blind Harry, the Life
and Death of William Wallace, and from that he starts
developing this script. At the time, he was a screenwriter
for various television shows. Came up with this script along
the way, and by the nineties it ends up in
the hands of a guy who I just learned about
through this experience, who, my gosh, is an amazing person.
Have you heard of Alan Ladd?
Speaker 3: I have heard of Alan Ladd. Why don't you tell
us about it?
Speaker 2: Okay? So, Alan Ladd Junior is the one we're talking about.
We had Alan Ladd Senior. You might remember him from
the old movie Shane. His son, Alan Ladd Junior, became
a producer in Hollywood and he is the reason that
we have so many of the movies that we love.
Specifically and first Star Wars.
Speaker 3: Star Wars. Thank you, Alan Ladd Junior.
Speaker 2: You changed my life absolutely. So yeah. At the time,
George Lucas was having trouble getting a green light for
his idea, and even during the production when they were like,
shut this down, it's over budget, it's not a good story.
Alan Ladd Junior was the guy who came and said
this movie needs to get made. He supports the creative
minds out there. He's the guy who says this is brilliant,
and then he gets out of the way and lets
the creative makers make their stuff, right, that's right. And
so he gets this script that Randa Wallace has made
and he's like, you know what, this is perfect for
mel Gibson. I'm going to give it to mel Gibson.
And mel Gibson says, not good.
Speaker 3: Interesting, right.
Speaker 4: This is when mel Gibson is a kind of the
height of his powers.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, yeah, he's top of the heap as far as
actors are concerned at this time period in history. And
he says, no, I don't want to do it. I
got other stuff going on and I just don't want
to do it. And so Alan Ladd Junior is ahead
of MGM at the time he ends up leaving MGM
going to Paramount, is only allowed to take two scripts
with him and Brave Heart it is one of those
two scripts. Yeah, right, Do we know what the other
one was?
Speaker 4: No?
Speaker 2: I don't. It's probably one that never made a difference
at all. So then two years past, mel Gibson calls
Alan Ladd Junior and says, hey, what are you doing
with Braveheart that script, and Alan Ladd says, nothing right,
and Mel says, I can't stop thinking about it. Can
we get together for lunch? We're great?
Speaker 3: Sorry, Yeah, I believe Mel Gibson came to him and said,
I'm interested in directing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so that at first Mel only wanted to direct,
did not want to be involved in it, And there
were several other actors that he pushed. He is interested
in having Brad Pitt in the part. He was interested
in having Jason Patrick, Jason Patrick from Lost Boys in
the part, which he had the right look. But I
don't think he had the acting chops to pull that off.
Some other kind of crazy options, Robin Williams, that's.
Speaker 3: In that insane. I mean, here's what I've heard. Yeah, Daniels,
which that one could have made some he's got the
acting chops, but I don't know if he's got the
box office pool.
Speaker 2: But I don't know, man. I mean, of all of
the ones that I've heard, he seems the most likely
to have pulled that off.
Speaker 3: Fair right, Okay, Daniel da Lewis, Liam Neeson, Christopher Lambert,
Jeff Bridges, and then, like you said, Robin Williams and
Brad Pitt.
Speaker 2: Ultimately, Mel he has to agree to be in the
movie because the studio refuses to fund it unless he
plays the lead part and directs it. And Mel has
after this experience, said I will never be on both
sides of the camera again. By the end of it,
he said, I wasn't saying anymore. I just needed to
be in a pattered room. I couldn't carry on conversations.
It was too much.
Speaker 3: It's a lot to do, yeah, you know. And actually
some of the criticism of this movie, not not a lot,
but some of the criticism. You know, Mel Gibson was
almost forty years old, right, and he's playing a guy
that's supposed.
Speaker 2: To be in his mid twenties, right, And I mean
and that that was his first objection, as I'm too old,
I'm too old to play this guy. Yeah, I mean
he's yeah, he's late thirties at the time, playing a
guy in his twenties.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Part of the deal for Mel Gibson getting the
funding and getting to direct this movie, ye, was he
had to promise him the least weapon.
Speaker 2: Four, right, which is why lethal Weapon four is an
absolute mockery of all of the other lethal weapons it's
a good movie. It's an enjoyable movie. But you watch
it and you're going, they are totally making fun of
themselves right now.
Speaker 3: They are having nothing but fun. It's absolute fun.
Speaker 2: Yes, that's the one.
Speaker 3: Gently that's my third favorite.
Speaker 2: Really yeah, yeah, so I'm thinking that number three had
to be your fourth favorite. Yes, yeah, finitely because one
in twoer buldos.
Speaker 3: Yes, did you know that? In October of two thousand
and nine, Mel Gibson admitted that much of this film
is fictitious.
Speaker 2: Oh. I don't think he's ever denied it. I mean
he just says, even in the commentary on the movie,
he's been like, yeah, this is this is not what
really happened in history, but this is cinematic. You have
to make things cinematic. I mean he even has said
so much as William Wallace was a pretty crappy guy.
I mean, he's the Vikings would have called him a berserker.
He would he smelled of smoke because he was always
burning down other people's villages.
Speaker 3: It's cool, Yeah, he always smelled a smoke.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he was not a good guy. But I mean,
when you watch a movie, you've you've got to make
it a hero and that I think we should say
right now, I've read the history and this movie is
one hundred percent accurate. No, that's false. That is false,
that this movie is not accurate at all. But we're
okay with that. We're not going to go and I'm
not going to bash this movie because it's inaccurate. We're
going to talk about Gladiator in a minute. And Maximus
wasn't even a real person. So's both of these movies
deviate from history quite a bit, but I don't care.
Speaker 3: But they do have historical figures.
Speaker 2: Sure. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Braveheart was actually supposed to take place between the years
twelve eighty and thirteen fourteen, almost one thousand years after
Gladiator takes place. This movie was initially supposed to be
an NC seventeen. Mel Gibson had to do a lot
of cutting, had to cut some of the graphic violence.
Speaker 1: Out of it.
Speaker 2: We had to cut some of the cutting. He had
cut a lot of the cutting, a lot of them apparently,
like whenever the scene happens where the executioner the inquisitor
pulls off the blanket to display all of the implements
of torture. There were multiple people at the screening that
got up and walked out and like, nope, I'm not
going to sit here and watch this. So as graphic
and as unpleasant as you think it is, it was
way worse on the original cut.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and he actually they had to remove the line
the guy pulls off the thing and says, I'm going
to use all of these right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, see I had to change that line.
Speaker 3: People are like, nope, I'm out of here. This is interesting.
This is something that I found interesting. Mel Gibson in
preparing for this, on how to direct this, he watched
several films, okay, and some of them that you would suspect,
like Spartacus, I'm Spardacus, I'm Spartacus, I'm Spartacus and seven
Samurai yep, but he watched NFL films to get used
to this.
Speaker 2: Yeah. The well, and the footage that you have, especially
in the battle scenes, is very much that kind of
let's get up and close and personal kind of thing.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's a famous celebrity that helped mel Gibson.
Speaker 4: With his accent.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I do know it is. So I'll let you
tell the story. Okay, Well there's.
Speaker 3: Not much of a story, but mel Gibson needed to
have a Scottish accent. So who do you call who's
the most famous Scottish actor at the time. In the end,
it can be only one John Connery, Right.
Speaker 2: Conray, I'll have the rappist for two hundred. That's therapist.
Speaker 3: So he and Sean Connery went to dinner. So one
of the other criticisms that is sort of out there
is that Mel Gibson's accent sucks.
Speaker 2: Well, but here's the thing, and I'm gonna this is
the way I justify this. Okay, Okay. So the character
of William Wallace in the movie leaves at the time
that he's a child to go learn Latin and French
and travels the world to all different kinds of places
his accent and it will be different, it'll be varied.
So it's acceptable to me. I have no problem with it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it didn't bother me at all.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: And plus they can blame Sean Connery.
Speaker 2: Yeah right, Okay, So are you good with the beginning
of Fraveheart? The backstory there? Okay, let's talk about the
Let's talk about the beginnings the backstory to Gladiator.
Speaker 3: Okay, So this one doesn't have quite as much interesting
things to talk about as far as the beginning goes,
because when they actually started filming Gladiator, they only had
twenty one It depends on who you ask, but somewhere
between twenty one and thirty two pages of a script
ready to go.
Speaker 2: That to me is amazing in and of itself because
this movie was several How many millions of dollars did
they spend on this movie?
Speaker 3: This The budget for this one hundred and three million dollars.
Speaker 2: One hundred and three million dollars. So really Scott had
the chops to go to producers and say, hey, I
want to make this epic movie. It's going to cost
one hundred and three million dollars. And they're like, okay,
tell us a story. And he's like, well, I really
only have about a quarter of it, right, And they said, okay,
here's the money. I feel really good about Act one
and maybe part of Act two. Yeah, I mean if
I can go back to Braveheart real quick. Whenever they
went to the producers for money, not only they say
you're going to have to make lethal weapon for not
only do they have to say you're going to have
to star in it when he didn't want to, but
they said the paramount guy said we'll give you fifteen
million dollars, and Mel Gibson lost his yeah, and threw
an ashtray through the wall, which I can understand. I mean,
he had given up roles, he had done all this preparation,
and they basically offered him twenty percent of the budget.
Speaker 3: Totally ridiculous. But Brian Johnson's Hoover vacuum cleaner commercial was
worth fifteen million dollars.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So what ended up happened was twentieth Century Fox
agreed to put up the rest of the money, and
they got international distribution rights, and they made all the
money on that movie. Because the movie Brave Heart, when
it came out, it only made about nine million and
something dollars here in the States, which didn't even get
it up to the budget, right, but worldwide it made
over two hundred and fifty million dollars.
Speaker 3: It's interesting that you say that before we get back
into Gladiator, because I this is the time of my
life when I went and saw everything, and I don't
recall seeing Brave Heart at the theater.
Speaker 2: I don't really remember seeing either one of these. I
just for the first time I've seen I can remember
how I felt after Gladiator, and I can remember how
I felt after Braveheart for the first time seeing them,
but I don't remember where I saw them.
Speaker 3: Okay, so Gladiator aback to Gladiator. The script started with
only twenty one to thirty two pages, depending on who
you ask. Yes, Russell Crow has actually been quoted as
saying this is the stupidest way to fill a mood.
Speaker 2: Maybe. Yeah, he didn't like the experience.
Speaker 3: You know, but he had a lot of creative input
on it. He said they would gather up and sit
down and start writing.
Speaker 2: Stuff, right, but almost too much, because, as I understand it,
if he didn't like the lines, he was just like,
this is stupid. I'm not going to say you walk
off the set.
Speaker 3: He almost didn't say.
Speaker 5: His name is Maximus Decimus Meridius, Commander of the Armies
of the North, General of the Felix Legions, loyal southern
to the true Emperor Marcus Aurelius, father to a murdered son,
husband to a murdered wife, and I will have my
vengeance in this life for the.
Speaker 3: Next that very famous line.
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, he almost didn't say that. And if he
didn't like the way that the script was going, he
would walk off. He'd like, screw this, I'm not doing
it anymore.
Speaker 3: Right, This movie was actually inspired by the grade for this, Yeah,
my French accident, the Jean Leon Jerome eighteen seventy two
painting called thumbs.
Speaker 2: Down, or if you're from Oklahoma, the John Leon.
Speaker 3: Jerome, John Leon, Jimmy Yes.
Speaker 2: The Plice Versaux thumbs down.
Speaker 3: Thumbs down. Okay, So some other actors that were considered
for the lead in this yes, Now, Ridley Scott is
kind of said that Russell Crowe was his number one
guy the entire time.
Speaker 2: Right, he had initially turned it down because he was
so invested in The Insider, which is I think maybe
my favorite Russell Crowe performance.
Speaker 3: Well, talk about that because he had a lot of
work to do after The Insider.
Speaker 2: Right. So The Insider he plays a whistleblower in the
tobacco industry and it's a fantastic performance by him. But
he gained forty pounds of fat. I mean he was
I mean, he wasn't working out and gaining forty pounds.
He gained a lot of flab to play this part.
And then then he's being offered this gladiator part where
he's got to be in tiptop shape, and so does
he hit the gym. Nope, No, he goes and works
on the farm. He's got himself a farm down in
New Zealand and he goes down there and works and
drops drops the weight.
Speaker 3: See I've heard him talk about this. I'm not sure
i'd buy it. Walking around with sheep does not shed
forty pounds. So Russell Crowe was the guy, the main
guy that really Scott had targeted. But some other guys
that were considered. I thought, this is an interesting list.
Here you go, Mel Gibson.
Speaker 2: Of course, it was the very first consideration because they
wanted to ride on that success the Brave Heart had had.
Speaker 3: And at this time, I mean he would have been,
you know, forty five or so. Yeah, I think that's a.
Speaker 2: About right for a Roman general, right, But he said, no,
I'm too old, and this time I mean it and I.
Speaker 3: Still have the Scottish accent. Somebody else considered Hugh Jackman.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they got what's with all the Australia guys. I
don't know, down Under guys are just yeah, okay, Hugh Jackman.
Who else Hugh Jackman?
Speaker 3: This is kind of before even X men. I think
X Men kind of made it big in two thousands,
so yeah, X Men was before He's a household name
for sure.
Speaker 2: Absolutely.
Speaker 3: Okay, now here's the final name. And I thought this
one was pretty good. Antonio Benders, Yeah, because this is
the Spaniards.
Speaker 4: Spaniard Does that make sense?
Speaker 2: It seems to me, oh for sure. But then what
happened a little bit later was Rudley Scott directed Antonio
Benderis in The Thirteenth Warrior and being it was a loser. Yeah,
I was a loser, all right.
Speaker 3: So that is kind of the backstory on Gladiator. They
kind of made it up as they went.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Gladiator, like Braveheart, was heavily influenced by Spartacus the movie.
It was also heavily influenced by a movie called The
Fall of the Roman Empire. Both of those came out
in the sixties. The Fall of the Roman Empire especially
has a really similar plot because it tells the story
of Livius, who is Marcus Aurelius's intended successor. But that's
just the same as Maximus and Gladiator. David Franzini was
the screenwriter who I guess at least wrote the first
twenty pages or whatever. He started developing the story back
in the seventies after he read a book called Those
Who Are About to Die, And this line comes up
in the movie. For those about to die, we salute you.
Speaker 3: Those are about to die, we salute you.
Speaker 2: And for those about to rock.
Speaker 3: That's right, you've got to plug some ason DC right, Okay.
One of the things that I thought was interesting. Thumbs
up thumbs down what we all accept in American society.
Thumbs up means good, right, ye, hey, good job, phonsie.
Thumbs up, thumbs down means bad. But they think in
the Roman times it's actually the opposite.
Speaker 2: Thumbs up meant give him the sword, give.
Speaker 3: Him the sword, and thumbs down mint sheath the sword. Right,
So when the guy in charge of the match gave
the thumbs down, them mercy, don't kill him.
Speaker 2: Right, But nobody would have understood that. They thought about.
Speaker 3: Switching that, but they didn't want to confuse the.
Speaker 2: Audience, right, and that would have been confused.
Speaker 3: I'd have been like, what the heck he gave the thumbs.
Speaker 2: Down, What are you doing? Not that Maximus follows what
he's told to do anyway.
Speaker 3: Well, that's part. That was one of the points that
he did.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Sure. Now let's talk about the actors, the directors
and the composers in this one. Okay, Yes, for Braveheart.
It is directed, as we've said by mel Gibson. He
won the Oscar for Best Director yes that year, and
he was also a producer on it, and the movie
itself won Best Movie as well.
Speaker 3: You know what, his only directing credit up to that point.
Speaker 2: Was, Yeah, he had directed a smaller budget film called
Man Without a Face.
Speaker 3: But to go from that, which is a small kind
of movie, to this, yeah, a big thing to jump into.
Speaker 2: Absolutely well, Alan add Junior totally supported him, and then
the other producer involved was Bruce Davies. It was written,
as we said, by Randa Wallace, who mel Gibson said
was very easy to work with. They also had to
add things and take away things to kind of make
it a complete story, and he was okay with that. Yeah,
he was very good with that. Sounds great. And actually
what they would do they'd say here's what we're thinking,
and he said this is great and send it back
and he had made it even better.
Speaker 3: That's cool.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: So since that point, just to kind of hit on
mel Gibbs, most people are familiar with Mel Gibbs and
one of the top movie stars of our generation in
a way. Yeah, there's not a lot of directing for him.
He did The Man with No Face out a face,
The Faceless Guy. He did Braveheart right, which is great.
Speaker 2: Yep.
Speaker 3: He did The Passion of Christ, yes, which is amazing. Yes,
he did Apocalypto.
Speaker 2: Okay, have you seen that?
Speaker 4: No, you guys see that? I need to so good.
Speaker 3: And then Hacksaw Rich.
Speaker 2: Right, which is another Best Picture winner. I don't know.
Speaker 4: I haven't seen it.
Speaker 2: I've heard it. I've heard it's really good.
Speaker 3: Yeah. The director of Gladiators, Ridley Scott.
Speaker 2: Right, Alien is the movie I immediately think of with
Ridley Scott.
Speaker 3: Ridley Scott has done Alien.
Speaker 2: Yep.
Speaker 3: He's done Blade Runner, right, Thelma and Louise. He did
Blackhawk Down, he did The Latest. I think he's been
like Alien Covenant. It was new not any getting No,
that's terrible. He did a movie in the eighties with
Tom Verger that I really like, called Someone to Watch
over Me.
Speaker 2: I haven't seen it for me.
Speaker 3: He's either a home run or strikeout the Babe Ruth
of directors.
Speaker 2: So let's talk about the actors in each of the movies. Okay.
In Brave Heart again, lead character is Mel Gibson Martin Riggs. Right,
Leath the Weapon one of the first things you think of.
I enjoyed Leath the Weapon. I enjoyed Ransom, but he
did Hamlet not to be that is the question.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was really good.
Speaker 2: I loved it. Yeah, I loved it. I mean, talk
about a movie that makes you enjoy Shakespeare? That really
that one?
Speaker 4: Really?
Speaker 2: Was it? Super job. There were a couple of movies
before that. Henry the Fifth by Kenneth Browna had come out.
I think it came out in eighty nine. Fantastic. Okay,
I haven't seen that. Yeah, what about Mad Max? You
med Max?
Speaker 5: Guy?
Speaker 2: I didn't really, I didn't get into those movies.
Speaker 3: You're okay, more of a Leath the Weapon, right, which
hopefully very soon we're going to dive in Leth the
Weapon versus Diehard.
Speaker 2: Christmas movies coming soon? All right?
Speaker 1: Uh?
Speaker 3: And the lead we talked about in Gladiator, Russell Crowe. Right,
He's been in things like La Confidential, which is amazing,
Mystery Alaska, Master and Commander. Yeah, three Tender Yuma.
Speaker 2: That was one that I enjoyed. There are not a
whole lot of Russell Crowe movies that I just am
super into. I think he did a great job as
Durell and Man of Steel Steel. Yeah, I think he
did a fantastic job in that movie. And I really
like I said, I really like The Insider.
Speaker 3: How about this one?
Speaker 4: Yeah, lead miss haven't seen it.
Speaker 2: Widely regarded as the downer of that movie. Is his
part and I do not forget my name, Do not
forget me.
Speaker 3: Two fall six, So one.
Speaker 2: My wife loves his singing. Most people don't.
Speaker 3: He took He kind of took it on the chin
on that movie. And that movie was awesome.
Speaker 2: Oh, the movie's great. Yeah, just not him.
Speaker 3: Well, I didn't have a problem with it. I like it.
I am a fan, so you know, maybe I'm a
little rose colored there.
Speaker 2: Okay, So let's run through the supporting actors on Braveheart.
You've got Brian Cox. You don't speak Loton. Well, that's
something we shall have to speaking of Hannibal. Brian Cox
was the original Hannibal in a movie that came out
mid eighties by Michael Mann, same guy who directed The Insider,
called Manhunter. Yes, which is the original story before the
Silence of the lambs Manhunters, and it was remade later
on Red Dragon Business. But in that original mid eighties,
I think in nineteen eighty six, Brian Cox played the
part of Hannibal Lecter. Since Braveheart has gone on to
do multiple things which I've enjoyed him in, including the
Bourne series. He's fantastic in that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's really good in the Born series. He's also
Daphne's dad in the TV show.
Speaker 2: Okay, he's funny.
Speaker 3: He's super funny in that.
Speaker 2: It's good. It's good. He can do comedy too, that
makes sense. We had Patrick McGoohan as the villain King
Edward the first long Shanks.
Speaker 1: Probably with Scott is that it's full of Scott's.
Speaker 2: Patrick McGowan was a handsome actor from the sixties who
had done a lot of TV. Was kind of the
debonair guy. Even got offered the part of James Bond
at one point but turned it down. That's incredible. Yeah,
we have Peter Hanley as Prince Edward. We have Sophie
Marceau as Princess Isabella. Because you're looking at me, who's
also in a James Bond movie.
Speaker 3: The World's not enough.
Speaker 2: Yep, she is an incredible beauty and I gotta say
she is a fantastic actress.
Speaker 3: She does a great job.
Speaker 2: I mean, you watched this movie. I rewatched it.
Speaker 4: I'm like, holy smoke, she's got some chops on this acting.
Speaker 2: I mean, she's she's good.
Speaker 3: She has that sort of quiet strength.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that queen to.
Speaker 2: Have And apparently mel Gibson during the course of the
movie convinced the entire crew that she was the daughter
of Marcel Marceau, the famous that's awesome. You have Angus
mcphaden as Robert the Bruce. I want to believe he
does again some serious acting chops on here for a
guy that's such a slime ball in the movie that
you actually but you still can identify with that you
feel for.
Speaker 3: I think his character is comparable to what Joaquin Phoenix
does and Gladiator, which we'll talk about here in a minute.
But yeah, they have a their mission and their heart
is kind of intermingled and mixed up sometimes, right, and
they convey that really well.
Speaker 2: Sure. Katherine McCormick plays Muran do that stands another beauty
different type of beauty, but my gosh, every look that
she gives as they as they're looking at each other
in the movie, I'm just like, oh my heart. Yeah,
it makes it hurt.
Speaker 3: You know Mel Gibson when he talked about her, when
you talked about the interview process, Yeah, he brought in
when he brings in actress and actresses, he doesn't have
him read, yes, but he just sits down, has a
conversation with him. And after sitting down with her, I
heard him say this. He said he fell in love.
Speaker 2: A little bit. Yeah, And I thought, man.
Speaker 3: And that's how he knew she was right for the
park absolutely, and you do you just can't.
Speaker 2: I mean, she's wearing a potato sack yet, and she's
got her hair just as straight stick hair, and you're
still just like you have. Brendan Leson playing the part
of Hamish William Wallace's best friend, the giant redheaded Warrior,
I could crush you like a what a my gosh,
what a great part of Brendan Gleeson. I know because
I have kids From the Harry Potter series. He plays
Mattie Moody Alistair Mattye Moody in that one and then
also in Paddington Too. He's one of the jail Cook's
good part in that one.
Speaker 3: I haven't picked up Pattington too yet but sounds good.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and he's Brendan Gleeson is Irish and played a
Scottish guy. And then my favorite character in the whole
movie is Steven.
Speaker 3: That can't be William Wallace.
Speaker 1: I'm prettier than this man.
Speaker 2: That part is played by David O'Hara. In order to
find his equal in irishman is forced to talk to God.
Speaker 3: Yes, Father on my two sides, don't change the subject,
just on So the question.
Speaker 2: Scottish guy playing Irish guy. So you got an Irish
guy playing a Scottish guy and Scotish guy playing an
Irish guy, and they're both my favorite guys in the movie.
David O'Hara is so good, so good makes the whole movie.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he really steals some of the scenes.
Speaker 2: So those are the two right hand men. And then
the other loyal follower of William Wallace is Morrison, who
is played by tom Me Flannagan. You will recognize him
from the large scars that he has on each side
of his face. Interestingly, he is also right hand man
in the movie Gladiator.
Speaker 3: He's Cicero.
Speaker 2: He's Cicero Gladiator.
Speaker 3: You know those scars are actually real.
Speaker 4: Yeah, he was in a night he was.
Speaker 3: Attacked at a nightclub. He was working as a DJ,
working at a nightclub. Yeah, and they actually call it
the Glasgow.
Speaker 2: Smile, smile, I think right. Tommy Flanagan's first big budget movie,
first movie of Hollywood movie is Brave Heart. He went
on to do multiple things, has been an actor in
over sixty productions since then.
Speaker 3: Okay, we're ready to talk about the actors and actresses
and gladator. Let's do it all right, So we talked
a little bit about the lead, Russell Crowe. He's major
movie star. You guys know him a lot of stuff.
The guy who plays Commitist is Joaquin Phoenix.
Speaker 2: Now this year is up for his Have they had
the oscar yet? They will have had them by the
time that this episode comes out. But he's in the movie.
Speaker 3: Joker, right, which you I despise that movie. Yeah, but
he does a fantastic job.
Speaker 2: There's no question, love it or hate the movie, you
cannot deny that he does an incredible job.
Speaker 3: He lost so much weight and he looks almost grotesque
in the movie.
Speaker 2: Uh huh.
Speaker 3: The whole movie is just an unpleasant experience, but he
does really sold out and did an amazing job. Yeah,
so Walking Phoenix. You may recognize from Space Camp a
little kid that Jinks sends to space and Space Camp, right,
he was the little kid in Parenthood.
Speaker 2: He's been such a moving part that he has, even
for the small part that he is this kid who
kind of just never gets to see his dad even
though he desperately.
Speaker 4: Wants to.
Speaker 3: The village.
Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, and science right, swing away.
Speaker 3: Yep, Walk the Line plays Johnny Cash, Walk the Line,
Yeah kind of a I mean, he's a really prominent
actor right now.
Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely so.
Speaker 3: Connie Nielsen plays Lucilla.
Speaker 5: Was that very different.
Speaker 2: Then most of our listeners probably will recognize her from
the Wonder Woman movie.
Speaker 3: Yes, she's Diana's mother, yea, the Amazonian mother, Yes, yes, okay,
And then Oliver Reed.
Speaker 4: I want you to do is kill Kill Kill. I
want to hear coming back.
Speaker 3: Just entertain We'll talk more about him here in a
little bit, But I mean, he's been in a lot
of movies that I'm not familiar with. But the one
movie that I am familiar with was this nineteen eighty
two movie called Venom. Not the Spider Man movie. But
that's a movie where he's a kidnapper and the black
man beloose in the in the apartment. He's the bad guy,
that's what. There's a black man but loose in the
apartment in England.
Speaker 2: A black man.
Speaker 3: But huh yes, Kelby Bryant is running around the part.
Speaker 2: So Oliver Reid, I know from Oliver the movie Oliver,
which is a musical from back in the sixties where
he's the villain. And he was also in this weird
wolf movie that I probably I could find. It's like
Curse of the Werewolf or something like that, which was fantastic,
but I haven't seen it since I was maybe seven
years old or something.
Speaker 3: You say, were wolf movie and I'm in. I don't care.
Speaker 2: He was in the Adventures of Baron von Muhausen as well. Yes,
but yeah, and Oliver. That's probably his most famous role.
He plays Bill Sykes, the evil guy kills his beautiful wife.
It's terrible anyway, let's keep going.
Speaker 3: Richard Harris, who plays Marcus Aurelis. Have I missed it?
Speaker 2: Have I missed the Battles the War? All right?
Speaker 3: Richard Harris, who has been in a ton of stuff
but Dumbledore. He's definitely been in the Harry Potter movies.
He's Dumbledore in Harry Potter Original Dumbledore. He was in
Patriot Games yep Orca, which is kind of a Jaws
like movie except it's the Killer Whale. Yes, but for me,
he's always the guy from Unforgiven. Right, He Gene Hackman,
beats the heck out him, almost beats him to death
in the movie Unforgiven. We may not include this. Richard
Harris is in Tarzan the ape Man with Bo Derek.
Speaker 2: Yes, I have, okay, one part of it, over and
over again. All right. Composers, okay. So for Braveheart we
have James Horner, fantastic composer. I love this soundtrack. Love it.
It's like you talked about the beginning of the thriller
album of Want to Be starting some then just three
beats in, You're in right when you start with the
bagpipes playing at the beginning of this thing, and I'm
swept over to Scotland. I'm in, I'm in for the deal.
James Horner has done tons of stuff, most memorable Brave Heart,
and a few years later he does the soundtrack for
Titanic Titanic, one of your favorite movies. Movie that I
think is okay, but it is the biggest selling soundtrack
album of all time. James Horner sadly passed away back
in twenty fifteen. Kind of he was in the midst
of his doing some great stuff, but he had he
was flying a plane, had a plane crash and passed away.
Speaker 3: I did not know that Gladiator has one of the
most famous composers of all time as well, Hans Zimmer.
Speaker 4: Hans Zimmer, and he's one of my favorites too.
Speaker 3: He does great stuff. So he's done Aman Begins, He's
done rain Man, Twister, Crimson Tie.
Speaker 2: The last Samurai, Interstellar, Interstellar inception. He just got Dunkirk.
Speaker 3: So Christopher Nolan apparently.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's yeah, Christopher, It's he's Christopher Nolan and Hans
Zimmer are kind of life. Steven Spielberg and Don Williams.
Speaker 3: Yes, he just got the new the Latest Bond movie. Okay,
I just saw today, but let me just say for me,
I love this century. I think it's amazing. I don't
know if you ever saw this TV show called it
The Contender. It was a Sevestro Stallone boxing show. No
Hans Zimmer did the theme song from It Okay and
it was incredible. So Hans Zimmer, before we move on
from him, he was in a famous eighties pop band
Okay video Killed the Radio.
Speaker 2: Star, very first video of MTV.
Speaker 3: He was the keyboards in the Buggles.
Speaker 2: Oh wow, that's an interesting that's an interesting move.
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh. When I saw that, I could not
believe it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's fantastic. Okay, I think we've gone through are
We've gone through our players, we've gone through our creatives,
we've gone through the story. I think it's time to
jump in.
Speaker 3: Okay, let's let's get into where You're wrong and I'm right.
Speaker 2: So join us next week for part two of the debate.
Thank you so much for your support of the Shirley
you Can't Be Serious podcast.
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