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<v Speaker 1>As an atheist, folks often try to sell me on

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<v Speaker 1>a watered down, gentler version of Christianity, sort of a

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<v Speaker 1>moderate version of Christianity. And I have a couple questions

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<v Speaker 1>of that about that. First, why what are we assuming

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<v Speaker 1>I've never considered that, that I didn't look at that

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<v Speaker 1>before leaving the faith, that I could never be moderated.

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<v Speaker 1>It was fundamentalism or nothing. And second, isn't that still

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<v Speaker 1>picking and choosing which aspects of a Christian faith you

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<v Speaker 1>want to hold on to. It's still choosing to believe

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<v Speaker 1>in the verses that make you feel good or that

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<v Speaker 1>affirm your worldview. It's fundamentally lacking in curiosity, lacking in

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<v Speaker 1>the intellectualism. And I don't really want to live a

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<v Speaker 1>life lying to myself, even if it's a more moderate

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<v Speaker 1>version of lying to myself. So if you find that

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<v Speaker 1>upsetting or offensive, or you actually agree and are like, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>get rid of those moderates, come over to the atheist side,

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<v Speaker 1>then call us. Because the show starts now. Yay, welcome everyone.

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<v Speaker 1>Today is September fifteenth, twenty twenty four. I am your host,

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<v Speaker 1>Sophia Spina and joining me as my co host. Objectively, Dan,

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<v Speaker 1>what's up.

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<v Speaker 2>How's it going, Sophia.

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<v Speaker 1>It's going all right. How are you doing good?

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<v Speaker 2>Doing good? I'm not hosting today. You're hosting today, which

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<v Speaker 2>is a reversal of the last time we hosted together.

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<v Speaker 2>So you know, it's nice. I get to sit back.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't have to look at what's in the call

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<v Speaker 2>screening notes or anything or the announcements. You know. So

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<v Speaker 2>you you, you slay, queen, you take over, you got.

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<v Speaker 1>I have all the reading, which yeah, yeah, yes, it's

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<v Speaker 1>like a book club this for those behind the scenes.

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<v Speaker 1>There's a lot to read. You've probably noticed, but yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>so we get to test my like basic english skills

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<v Speaker 1>pretty much.

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<v Speaker 2>Doing great so far. I've understood every word you've said,

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<v Speaker 2>so keep it.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, because I bet my tongue the other day, so

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<v Speaker 1>I am worried. I'm like, yeah, if I'm sorry, it's

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<v Speaker 1>it's just a tongue bite. Man.

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<v Speaker 2>In normal life it doesn't matter too much, but in

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<v Speaker 2>podcasting it's a big deal.

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<v Speaker 1>That's I know, I've been very self conscious. I've been

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<v Speaker 1>gone for a couple of months and so I'm like, oh, man,

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<v Speaker 1>like right before coming back, so yeah, I just had

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<v Speaker 1>a baby. So that's why I was gone, and now

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<v Speaker 1>we should.

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<v Speaker 2>Talk about maybe that may you mentioned the fact that

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<v Speaker 2>you are now a you know, a giver of life.

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<v Speaker 1>Second time, second.

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<v Speaker 2>Time, yep, yep. Rate Oh my god, no, no, oh god,

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<v Speaker 2>let's not have that conversation on the show today. Please

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<v Speaker 2>that I.

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<v Speaker 1>Think I may have just invited it in. I'm sorry

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<v Speaker 1>about that.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh no, oh no, yes, congratulations to that we missed it.

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<v Speaker 2>I thought I was going to be able to see

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<v Speaker 2>you in person at the backt weekend. I think you're still,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, busy being a you know mom, So that worked,

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<v Speaker 2>that makes sense.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, she ended up coming quite late, and so I

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<v Speaker 1>was still kind of recovering because she just decided that

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<v Speaker 1>she did not want to do not want to make

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<v Speaker 1>the exit at all. So we had too a victor,

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<v Speaker 1>which now has happened to me with two children.

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<v Speaker 2>So yeah, well you're gone through it. So that's good.

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<v Speaker 2>And yeah, everybody say congratulations to Sophia in the chat

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<v Speaker 2>or for doing that, because.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, we can talk about God's divine plan for childbirth

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<v Speaker 1>and that's creating a doctor with a hook.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah you are, you are fulfilling God's divine plan, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>for that, So that's good that's good, keeping the human

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<v Speaker 2>race alive and all that.

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<v Speaker 1>So for you correct them with my atheism.

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<v Speaker 2>I can't do that. I don't have that power, which

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<v Speaker 2>is great. I don't want that power. Just to be clear,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm happy with the parts I've been given. I'll put

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<v Speaker 2>it that way, so you know good. I'm all good,

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<v Speaker 2>is what I'm trying to say. I don't know where

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<v Speaker 2>I'm going with that, to be honest with you, I'm

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<v Speaker 2>just going to make a small.

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<v Speaker 1>Talk reaffirm that being child free is a great choice.

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<v Speaker 1>And I know that some people get assume that that's

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<v Speaker 1>not how I feel as I now have children. That's

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<v Speaker 1>such a weird thing to say. When you move from

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<v Speaker 1>having a kid a baby, so like you have children now,

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<v Speaker 1>that feels very strange. But yeah, not having children to

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<v Speaker 1>bring them into, you know, a world of chaos and

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<v Speaker 1>whatever this is is totally fine and I fully support that.

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<v Speaker 1>And I have a lot of siblings and family members

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<v Speaker 1>who've made the similar choice and are being involved in

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<v Speaker 1>my children's lives instead, which is not an obligation, but

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<v Speaker 1>I appreciate it just so much. I'm like, Yeah, the

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<v Speaker 1>more adults are focused on these little children, that improve

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<v Speaker 1>their odds of survival so great.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you know, yeah, my partner I've talked about adopting.

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<v Speaker 2>That's something that we've talked a lot about. But we'll see,

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<v Speaker 2>we're trying to get married first and then we'll do that.

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<v Speaker 1>But yeah, versus me, it was pregnant at my wedding,

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<v Speaker 1>so I just did it all at the same time,

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<v Speaker 1>you know.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, you got it all done, you know, in

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<v Speaker 2>a year or whatever. So that's that's pretty good, pretty efficient.

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<v Speaker 1>I have an efficient womb. Yes, it's been said of me,

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<v Speaker 1>but I think I was thirteen the first time my

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<v Speaker 1>dad told me, you know, if we were living in

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<v Speaker 1>a medieval era, then I could get such a good

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<v Speaker 1>like bride price for you. And I was like, that's

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<v Speaker 1>a weird thing to say to your teenage daughter.

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<v Speaker 3>Day.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh, if you have a dowry, costs wouldn't have been

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<v Speaker 2>as great. I would kind of discount, you know. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>really cool.

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<v Speaker 1>So you know that's something I've held onto and choose

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<v Speaker 1>to interpret as a compliment, because.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think that's the best way to do. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>for sure, I give.

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<v Speaker 1>The impression of heartiness anyway, with all that talk. Heathen

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<v Speaker 1>is a product of the atheist Community of Austin. If

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<v Speaker 1>I have a one C three nonprofit organization dedicated to

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<v Speaker 1>the promotion of atheism, critical thinking, secular humanism, and the

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<v Speaker 1>separation of religion and government. Very exciting that we live

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<v Speaker 1>in Texas for all of that Talk he That is

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<v Speaker 1>a live Collin show and we have open lines, So

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<v Speaker 1>get your calls in at five one two nine nine

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<v Speaker 1>nine two four to two or from your computer you

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<v Speaker 1>can call at tiny dot c C call t H.

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<v Speaker 1>That's tiny dot cc slash C A L L t H.

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<v Speaker 1>Like Talk Heathen, So we have a question of the week.

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<v Speaker 1>Like every week in our Talk Heathen to Me segment,

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<v Speaker 1>we get to present that last week we asked you

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<v Speaker 1>to complete the sentence. Not even faith healers will attempt

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<v Speaker 1>to heal. Fill in the blink and here are our

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<v Speaker 1>top three answers. Do you want to give that a look, Dan?

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<v Speaker 2>Or actually I don't have it open right.

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<v Speaker 1>Never mind, I should imagine beforehand. I'm coming back. I'm

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<v Speaker 1>figuring it out.

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<v Speaker 2>I didn't realize you're going to ask me to do things.

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<v Speaker 2>So that's sorry.

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<v Speaker 1>Fine, as you're pulling it up, I'll go ahead and read

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<v Speaker 1>number three. So it is from X million who said,

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<v Speaker 1>no faith healers wanted to touch my hemorrhoids, just saying

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<v Speaker 1>oh that, you know, if they were effective, I would

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<v Speaker 1>hope that for you they they would do that. I

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<v Speaker 1>appreciate the disclosure was quite a disclosure that you have had,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, after just having fun pregnant. I feel for you.

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<v Speaker 1>But that is amazing. You're right, they want to you know, Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>so why not get up in there? Come on?

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<v Speaker 2>Why not? Why?

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<v Speaker 1>Okay it's number two ready?

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<v Speaker 2>Okay. Number two is from James West who says, not

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<v Speaker 2>even faith healers will attempt to heal a lego foot injury,

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<v Speaker 2>which is true, so true. Can't tell you how many

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<v Speaker 2>times that happened to me?

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<v Speaker 1>Well, and you could also feel like, couldn't they just

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<v Speaker 1>help prevent the lego for injury? God helps people find

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<v Speaker 1>their keys all the time, apparently, so why can't God

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<v Speaker 1>just shift legos out of the way? You know?

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<v Speaker 2>Oh no, when you're a kid, did you have like

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<v Speaker 2>a gigantic bin of just all the legos, just all

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<v Speaker 2>the pieces. That's what I had.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm the second of four children, and so we would

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<v Speaker 1>have like a whole society that included pokemon figurines, Fisher

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<v Speaker 1>Price like castles. And then we always assigned the younger

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<v Speaker 1>kids to have to be miners and sort out the

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<v Speaker 1>legos because we were horrible exploitative older children capital n

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<v Speaker 1>and so yeah, we had a whole society going on

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<v Speaker 1>with our giant lego bin and the needs for organization.

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<v Speaker 2>Wow, you're really feeling God's plan even at a young age.

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<v Speaker 2>That's crazy.

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<v Speaker 1>Filling God's plan for power.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, unequal opportunity of work and unequal distribution of power.

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<v Speaker 2>That's amazing.

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<v Speaker 1>Plaiting children, God for shaping children to your will.

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<v Speaker 2>Uh, the children yearn for the mind, Sophia, They really do.

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<v Speaker 2>So you know, don't take it too hard on yourself.

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<v Speaker 1>They never complained. I mean, come on, so I never complained.

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<v Speaker 1>How am I supposed to know?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah?

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<v Speaker 1>All right, on that note, do you want to read

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<v Speaker 1>number one?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I can do that. Number one is from Dan Johnson,

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<v Speaker 2>who says not even a faith healer could put Humpty

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<v Speaker 2>Dumpty back together again, which is very silly, but yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>it's funny. That's a good one. Thank you for setting

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<v Speaker 2>those in. Thanks everybody for contributing.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that one makes me think about the fact that

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<v Speaker 1>it just was putting it out to me, like for

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<v Speaker 1>the first time that Humpty Dumpty is never mentioned to

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<v Speaker 1>be an egg.

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<v Speaker 2>No, No, it's not. I think it's I think it's

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<v Speaker 2>one of the is that like one of those old

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<v Speaker 2>tales where it's like, oh, it's actually supposed to represent

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<v Speaker 2>like a political figure. I think it's one of those, right.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I always assume it's a political figure or like

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<v Speaker 1>a gruesome plague. Those are gonna be like my assumptions

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<v Speaker 1>about things in the past like that. I just feel

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<v Speaker 1>like it's really unfortunate to imagine a guy named Humpty Dumpty.

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<v Speaker 1>I can't imagine a flattering name.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, everything isn't dumpty. I feel like a lot

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<v Speaker 2>you could do with that that isn't great. But but

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<v Speaker 2>but you know, you can't these. I mean like there

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<v Speaker 2>might be somebody whose actual name is Humpty Dumpty out there.

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<v Speaker 1>Right, that's true middle school because that would be tough.

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<v Speaker 2>That will be tough, that will be tough, definitely, definitely

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<v Speaker 2>definitely pumped for. Oh sorry, ahead, I see. That's the thing.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm so used to running things, Sophia. Every I am.

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<v Speaker 2>I am the host on every single freaking show I do,

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<v Speaker 2>and now you know, I'm just letting you take the

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<v Speaker 2>just go for it.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm going to lean into that. I need to lean

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<v Speaker 1>into God's design for my personal power. So right, the

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<v Speaker 1>prompt for next week is what's the reason God created

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<v Speaker 1>hell wrong? Answers only? So enter your best answer below

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<v Speaker 1>the video in the comments, and next week we'll real

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<v Speaker 1>the top three answers. So again, that is what is

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<v Speaker 1>the reason God created hell wrong? Answers only? Objectively? Dan,

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<v Speaker 1>do you have an answer for this?

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<v Speaker 2>The cynical fedora wearing atheist in me came up with

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<v Speaker 2>the answer of, oh, so we can hang out separately

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<v Speaker 2>from the Christians. But you know, that's that's that's what

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<v Speaker 2>that came up with. So but I'm one hundred percent

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<v Speaker 2>sure you guys can come up with better answers. So

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<v Speaker 2>I want to see what you guys come up with

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<v Speaker 2>in the comments on this one.

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<v Speaker 1>That sounds like a great answer. And also I love

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<v Speaker 1>the idea of just you know, yeah, having a big

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<v Speaker 1>atheist party for eternity. Why not, it'll be more interesting, you.

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<v Speaker 2>Know, I always say that. And then it's definitely like

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<v Speaker 2>not the classical depictions of how like it's definitely like

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of torture, a lot of torment, definitely lost suffering.

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<v Speaker 2>But there's always like this side in the community that's like, oh,

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<v Speaker 2>it's just all we just get to separate from them,

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<v Speaker 2>that's just great. It's like that's a little more complicated

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<v Speaker 2>than that. But okay, sure, yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>It definitely it definitely is. And also I don't want

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<v Speaker 1>to exist for all eternity. So there's that, But there's that.

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<v Speaker 1>There's a great old timey song from a National Geographic

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<v Speaker 1>record that they compiled in the seventies about it's all

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<v Speaker 1>like Western songs and they were apparently historically actually sung

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<v Speaker 1>and it's about God giving Satan Texas to create Hell

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<v Speaker 1>and then eventually he decided he did too well and

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<v Speaker 1>needs to go back and like create a different Hell

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<v Speaker 1>because it's too hot in Texas and there's cacus and

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<v Speaker 1>hants and all these things. It's a great song.

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<v Speaker 2>So all right, all right, Well that's that's a vision.

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<v Speaker 2>It's becoming. Texas is becoming more and more like Hell

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<v Speaker 2>every day. I think that's true. But you know, we

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<v Speaker 2>get to say that as Texans. I feel like there's

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<v Speaker 2>no great talking about a geopolitical space then from the

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<v Speaker 2>person coming from that space, I feel like that's the

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<v Speaker 2>maximum level, right.

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<v Speaker 1>I feel like, in particular, I know I can bring

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<v Speaker 1>up the baby thing. It's sort of top of mind,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, having just done that. I've given birth to

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<v Speaker 1>two babies in Texas as they're rolling back women's medical rights,

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<v Speaker 1>and I'm just like, this is I feel like i

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<v Speaker 1>can say a lot about that now. I feel like

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<v Speaker 1>I've earned that right, like that badge of like, hey,

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<v Speaker 1>I didn't die, and I was going to say a

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<v Speaker 1>swear word, but I'm not sure if we're far enough

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<v Speaker 1>into the show.

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<v Speaker 2>I think we're good.

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<v Speaker 1>Who are down with that?

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<v Speaker 2>We got a super chat from Blindlimy who gave ten

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<v Speaker 2>dollars and said, oh Lord, please heal my eyes. And

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<v Speaker 2>while I'm asking for impossible things, please make me a

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<v Speaker 2>wing commander in the RF so I can fly the Eurofighter.

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<v Speaker 2>And I didn't see that last far before it went

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<v Speaker 2>off the screen, and I don't see it in the chance,

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<v Speaker 2>but it will. Maybe we'll read the rest. If a

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<v Speaker 2>crew can put that in the chat for us, that

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<v Speaker 2>w'd be great.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and uh yeah, that would that would be amazing.

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<v Speaker 2>There you go, Yeah, what's our rate about childbirth mortality

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<v Speaker 2>in this country? We're not We're not first I know that.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, at we're up there, uh for industrialized nations or I'm.

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<v Speaker 2>Saying in Texas and compared to other states.

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<v Speaker 1>What's our what's actually that's a great question.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm pretty sure it's not great. So you know, first

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<v Speaker 2>of all country by the way, allegedly, so it's really cool,

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<v Speaker 2>really awesome.

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<v Speaker 1>So cool it anyway.

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<v Speaker 2>I talked about this before, but I went to Amsterdam

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<v Speaker 2>earlier this year and I thought Austin was cool, and

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<v Speaker 2>I was like, holy shoot, we don't know what freedom

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<v Speaker 2>actually is. Okay, because you can just like you can.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, granted they want you to do it inside

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<v Speaker 2>and coffee shops. You can smoke weed pretty much on

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<v Speaker 2>any street corner in any coffee shop in Amsterdam if

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<v Speaker 2>you want. Of course, there's red light district and all

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<v Speaker 2>this other stuff. It's just like, man, this is this

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<v Speaker 2>is a place that knows how to live it up,

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<v Speaker 2>is what I'm trying to say, Like they know what

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<v Speaker 2>it's like to actually, you know, live in that whole

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<v Speaker 2>you know, freedom thing, doing a freedom thing, which which

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<v Speaker 2>we always talk about here, but I don't think we

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<v Speaker 2>ever actually an action on that note.

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<v Speaker 1>Like I took my last year when he was one,

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<v Speaker 1>I took my son, just him and I. We went

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<v Speaker 1>to Leiden, which is a little bit outside of Amsterdam.

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<v Speaker 1>We love Lighten so much. We never actually made it

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<v Speaker 1>to Amsterdam, so we Lighten and we have friends who

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<v Speaker 1>lived there. It was so easy to have a baby there,

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<v Speaker 1>like just we could walk everywhere and it felt like

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<v Speaker 1>things were it just friendly, yeah, and like there were

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<v Speaker 1>bikes and there were tons of kids in the park,

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<v Speaker 1>and there were tons of parks and like all of

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<v Speaker 1>these things that I understand that we were in like

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<v Speaker 1>an urban area. So probably there isn't quite the same

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<v Speaker 1>level of walkability in all places. But for a place

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<v Speaker 1>that espouses family values like Texas does, it was easier

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<v Speaker 1>for me to have a one year old in the

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<v Speaker 1>Netherlands than having a one year old in Texas. So

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<v Speaker 1>I thought that was pretty interesting. And when we're thinking

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<v Speaker 1>about freedom, we don't always understand or it doesn't come

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<v Speaker 1>to mind, the idea that sometimes freedom is just the

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<v Speaker 1>ability to go where you want to go without getting

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<v Speaker 1>hit by a car. With that across traffic, Like, there's

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of ways we can look at that, and

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<v Speaker 1>I felt pretty free with my one year old also

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<v Speaker 1>strapped into my chest and he took a nap and

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<v Speaker 1>went to the pub, which was really great.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, we are. America is just kind of one

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<v Speaker 2>giant car park, and like I feel like Texas is

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<v Speaker 2>the worst about it, especially like Austin Dallas, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>the whole I thirty five basically section. It's like, there's no,

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<v Speaker 2>this is not Austin is not a walkable city. For

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<v Speaker 2>the most part. You can do buses, but that's that's

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<v Speaker 2>about as good as it gets. And uh yeah, a

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<v Speaker 2>restaurant's got that figured out. Also, again the architecture and stuff, like,

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<v Speaker 2>we think that we're religious, but then they got these amazing,

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<v Speaker 2>awesome churches and stuff in half of them aren't even

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<v Speaker 2>being used for services, like they're just don't know, they're

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<v Speaker 2>just doing their own thing with it, which is great too,

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<v Speaker 2>because again you see these like giant Austin buildings, and

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<v Speaker 2>then across the street it's literally like the Weed Museum

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<v Speaker 2>or whatever. So I don't know, that was that was

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<v Speaker 2>pretty funny.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, something in Liden, they really proud of their university

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<v Speaker 1>and so there are paintings all around town of things

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<v Speaker 1>that people discovered at that university. So like certain planets

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<v Speaker 1>were discovered there and different like I believe X ray

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<v Speaker 1>systems were discovered there too. There's a moment in Oppenheimer

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<v Speaker 1>if you've seen that, where he's teaching at the university

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<v Speaker 1>in Leiden. Actually, and so it's really cool to see

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<v Speaker 1>this focus on scientific discovery and academia and intellectualism and

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<v Speaker 1>just be walking around the city and see monuments to

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<v Speaker 1>that as well as these churches. It's like, we can't

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<v Speaker 1>evolve as a society and celebrate more than just the

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<v Speaker 1>fact that in the past we built a really cool building,

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<v Speaker 1>but a really big building, you know. Yeah, yeah, it's

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<v Speaker 1>like right, so it was really refreshing, It was awesome. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>that was sort of a tangent from from.

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<v Speaker 2>Our Yeah, let's just let's just show about how great

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<v Speaker 2>Europe is. This entire show that's.

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<v Speaker 1>Really entertaining and really good hard I love. Yeah, But

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<v Speaker 1>to just remind you real quick before we move on,

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<v Speaker 1>please enter your answers to what is the reason God created?

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<v Speaker 1>How wrong? Answers only, and then we will read the

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<v Speaker 1>top three next week. I really really quick before we

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<v Speaker 1>take our first call, I want to go to the

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<v Speaker 1>crew camp also and think the video there they are

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<v Speaker 1>I look at those gorgeous peeps. Such a good beard.

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<v Speaker 1>Thank you to all of the video and audio people, moderators,

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<v Speaker 1>the people who take notes, make timestamps to do call screening,

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<v Speaker 1>Like there's so much going on that I always feel

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<v Speaker 1>like I'm a just a yapper and they're the ones

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<v Speaker 1>who do the real work.

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<v Speaker 2>A yapper. Well, yeah, that sounds like a nineteen twenties

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<v Speaker 2>like slang for an adulterous woman or something like what

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<v Speaker 2>is that?

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<v Speaker 1>That's le just really it's just a talking like just

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<v Speaker 1>a person who's an opinion have her and that's all

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<v Speaker 1>they're really doing.

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<v Speaker 2>Ye there and giving me the vapors. Oh my gosh.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, I think I'm gonna hold on to that. I

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<v Speaker 1>just sort of think that out, but I'm going to

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<v Speaker 1>be like, you know what, I'm gonna hold on to that,

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<v Speaker 1>all right. So our first caller, we have Chloe she

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<v Speaker 1>her who is from occupied Lenape Territory. I'm sure that

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<v Speaker 1>I'm saying this incorrectly. If that's part of an indigenous tribe,

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<v Speaker 1>I absolutely am sorry that I'm saying that not not correctly,

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<v Speaker 1>but it's spelled l e n Ape for anyone who

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<v Speaker 1>wants to like Uh, to look that up. That's cool

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<v Speaker 1>that she specified that. Wow, I'm rambling anyway, She's going

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<v Speaker 1>to be talking about evolutionary nature on spiritual experience and you,

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<v Speaker 1>as an atheist, our perspective on experience. I'm not sure

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<v Speaker 1>I quite understand that. But we're gonna going to bring

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<v Speaker 1>her on here. Hello, Chloe, So tell us your take.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I'm a theist and.

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<v Speaker 4>And I wasn't a theist for a long time. What

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<v Speaker 4>finally convinced me was ultimately experienced itself. Having the experience

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<v Speaker 4>changed me in a way that I cannot describe with words.

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<v Speaker 4>And it's frustrating.

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<v Speaker 2>Ye had a spiritual experience the question specifically.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I had many spiritual experiences.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, Okay, great, go ahead.

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<v Speaker 4>And what I want to know is is that as

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<v Speaker 4>much as I remained skeptical, as much as I hold

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<v Speaker 4>on to my skepticism and I treasure it, I have

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<v Speaker 4>to look at those experiences and wonder, why are we

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<v Speaker 4>wired for those experiences? Is this just a quirk of

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<v Speaker 4>the I mean, I'm actually happy with the answer of

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<v Speaker 4>this is a quirker devolution, deal with it. But the

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<v Speaker 4>nature of those experiences, given how personal they are, given

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<v Speaker 4>that they've answered personal questions about my life and answered

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<v Speaker 4>you know, and it really brought something to me. That's

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<v Speaker 4>when I have to bring up the question, what's going

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<v Speaker 4>on here? What's the deal? I don't think your license

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<v Speaker 4>to get the sciential base, I will go into the

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<v Speaker 4>what's deal? But yeah, that's just what's your perspective on

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<v Speaker 4>all of that?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, do you want to start d Dan, You look

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<v Speaker 1>like you've got a sign.

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<v Speaker 2>I just I think about Maslow's hierarchy of needs, right,

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<v Speaker 2>I think about how we are beings that are capable

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<v Speaker 2>of sensory experiences beyond our complete and total comprehension sometimes

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<v Speaker 2>and our need for explanations sometimes overrides our need for

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<v Speaker 2>things to make logical sense. Like I think we experience

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<v Speaker 2>things before we fully logically understand them anyway, And so

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<v Speaker 2>I think that kind of bias sometimes shapes our perspective.

421
00:20:41.440 --> 00:20:43.519
<v Speaker 2>And I don't think that that's not always a healthy

422
00:20:43.599 --> 00:20:45.519
<v Speaker 2>thing or a good thing. I think having a sense

423
00:20:45.559 --> 00:20:48.519
<v Speaker 2>of life purpose and having a sense of uh, you know,

424
00:20:48.720 --> 00:20:51.640
<v Speaker 2>place in the universe it can is a great thing,

425
00:20:52.359 --> 00:20:54.440
<v Speaker 2>as everybody who talks about it seems to think the

426
00:20:54.480 --> 00:20:57.359
<v Speaker 2>world of it. At the same time, though there are

427
00:20:57.480 --> 00:21:00.359
<v Speaker 2>people that take advantage of that and abuse that. How

428
00:21:00.400 --> 00:21:02.400
<v Speaker 2>many stories do we have to hear about people who

429
00:21:02.640 --> 00:21:04.799
<v Speaker 2>felt so happy while they were in a cult, and

430
00:21:04.880 --> 00:21:07.880
<v Speaker 2>then later after the cult they realized they were being abused. Right, Obviously,

431
00:21:07.960 --> 00:21:11.559
<v Speaker 2>that's an extreme example, but the fact is that that's

432
00:21:11.599 --> 00:21:13.799
<v Speaker 2>a thing that happens with humans and seems to be

433
00:21:13.920 --> 00:21:16.319
<v Speaker 2>unique with humans. Right. Dogs don't really get into cults

434
00:21:16.680 --> 00:21:19.960
<v Speaker 2>or cats as far as I'm aware, but you'll let

435
00:21:20.000 --> 00:21:21.880
<v Speaker 2>to be seen. So yeah, I do think it's a

436
00:21:21.960 --> 00:21:23.640
<v Speaker 2>quirk of evolution. I do think it's a quirk of

437
00:21:23.799 --> 00:21:27.559
<v Speaker 2>just the human existence, our need to kind of fulfill ourselves,

438
00:21:27.759 --> 00:21:31.240
<v Speaker 2>and sometimes we interpret our experiences in a spiritual way

439
00:21:31.440 --> 00:21:34.279
<v Speaker 2>in order to do that. I don't think that necessarily

440
00:21:34.359 --> 00:21:39.039
<v Speaker 2>lends credence to any particular ideology or way of thought

441
00:21:39.119 --> 00:21:43.799
<v Speaker 2>process to be more correct than another in a religious sense.

442
00:21:43.920 --> 00:21:46.720
<v Speaker 2>That being said, I haven't seen everything in the world.

443
00:21:46.799 --> 00:21:49.559
<v Speaker 2>I haven't known everything, I haven't experienced everything, So I'm

444
00:21:49.599 --> 00:21:51.880
<v Speaker 2>open to being wrong on that front. But when it

445
00:21:51.920 --> 00:21:55.319
<v Speaker 2>comes to the contemporary spiritual experiences that most of us,

446
00:21:55.440 --> 00:21:58.759
<v Speaker 2>particularly in the US, talk about, i e. Christianity, right, like,

447
00:21:58.880 --> 00:22:01.119
<v Speaker 2>that seems to be pretty bunk. For the most part,

448
00:22:01.599 --> 00:22:05.920
<v Speaker 2>I can't speak to global spiritual phenomenon. Though maybe some

449
00:22:06.160 --> 00:22:09.319
<v Speaker 2>tribe somewhere has some access to some deity or some

450
00:22:09.519 --> 00:22:14.640
<v Speaker 2>sort of you know, transcendent being that I don't, but

451
00:22:14.839 --> 00:22:17.920
<v Speaker 2>I've yet to see any clear evidence of that. So

452
00:22:18.079 --> 00:22:19.759
<v Speaker 2>there you go. That's my that's my take on that.

453
00:22:19.880 --> 00:22:22.480
<v Speaker 2>What do you think, Sophia, Yeah, so I think a.

454
00:22:22.519 --> 00:22:25.599
<v Speaker 1>Couple of things. One, we can easily start coming into

455
00:22:25.839 --> 00:22:29.880
<v Speaker 1>sort of evolutionary psychology, which I think is a fun field,

456
00:22:29.960 --> 00:22:31.720
<v Speaker 1>but there's not a lot that we can really say

457
00:22:31.839 --> 00:22:34.720
<v Speaker 1>is evidently backed in there. We talk about like why

458
00:22:34.759 --> 00:22:37.599
<v Speaker 1>do humans feel a particular way, We can theorize about

459
00:22:37.640 --> 00:22:41.759
<v Speaker 1>how our brain's developed. My take with this is that

460
00:22:42.039 --> 00:22:46.440
<v Speaker 1>as a social species, we have to empathize with each other.

461
00:22:46.759 --> 00:22:49.359
<v Speaker 1>You know, our survival was benefited by the fact that

462
00:22:49.559 --> 00:22:51.119
<v Speaker 1>we were able to work together, that we were able

463
00:22:51.160 --> 00:22:54.000
<v Speaker 1>to empathize and view things from a different person's point

464
00:22:54.000 --> 00:22:57.240
<v Speaker 1>of view. That requires imagination. And so the way that

465
00:22:57.359 --> 00:23:00.559
<v Speaker 1>I look at it is that imagination is which I

466
00:23:00.680 --> 00:23:03.440
<v Speaker 1>think that spiritual experiences can kind of be a component

467
00:23:03.480 --> 00:23:05.680
<v Speaker 1>of not that you're sitting there imagining on purpose, but

468
00:23:06.000 --> 00:23:09.079
<v Speaker 1>that your brain is capable of presenting us with things

469
00:23:09.119 --> 00:23:13.200
<v Speaker 1>we have an experience in the physical world. Imagination is

470
00:23:13.240 --> 00:23:16.880
<v Speaker 1>a byproduct of the ability to work together and to

471
00:23:17.039 --> 00:23:19.960
<v Speaker 1>be compassionate to each other, and so I think that

472
00:23:20.119 --> 00:23:23.319
<v Speaker 1>that's the way that I conceptualize it. Like I said,

473
00:23:23.599 --> 00:23:26.359
<v Speaker 1>I don't have specific evidence for this, because that's a

474
00:23:26.519 --> 00:23:30.880
<v Speaker 1>very murky area of science that's super interesting, but again,

475
00:23:30.960 --> 00:23:33.559
<v Speaker 1>like doesn't provide a lot of really concrete, provable answers.

476
00:23:34.680 --> 00:23:36.480
<v Speaker 1>I think it's more likely that that is the case

477
00:23:36.559 --> 00:23:41.920
<v Speaker 1>though personally, than that we are endowed with godly visions.

478
00:23:42.319 --> 00:23:44.839
<v Speaker 1>I think it's also when I look at it, we

479
00:23:45.000 --> 00:23:48.759
<v Speaker 1>tend to have the spiritual experiences that we are somewhat

480
00:23:48.799 --> 00:23:51.680
<v Speaker 1>primed to have. They tend to be fairly culturally specific,

481
00:23:52.200 --> 00:23:55.680
<v Speaker 1>and to me, that would potentially affirm the fact that

482
00:23:56.000 --> 00:23:57.720
<v Speaker 1>this is part of an outgrowth of us being a

483
00:23:57.759 --> 00:24:01.960
<v Speaker 1>social species, is that even our or spiritual experiences tend

484
00:24:02.079 --> 00:24:05.559
<v Speaker 1>to make sense to some degree with those around us,

485
00:24:05.640 --> 00:24:07.839
<v Speaker 1>or to be similar to things that we've heard of

486
00:24:07.880 --> 00:24:09.960
<v Speaker 1>happening before. I definitely don't want to speak for your

487
00:24:10.039 --> 00:24:12.240
<v Speaker 1>personal experience, and I feel like I'm sounding a little

488
00:24:12.279 --> 00:24:15.119
<v Speaker 1>bit like I'm doing that, And so that's how I

489
00:24:15.200 --> 00:24:20.519
<v Speaker 1>would conceptualize a spiritual experience. I personally was religious for

490
00:24:20.640 --> 00:24:23.440
<v Speaker 1>quite a while, and I didn't have as strong of

491
00:24:23.519 --> 00:24:28.240
<v Speaker 1>spiritual experiences as some folks definitely report having. But I

492
00:24:28.880 --> 00:24:33.359
<v Speaker 1>remember feeling everything that you're supposed to feel, you know,

493
00:24:34.920 --> 00:24:38.079
<v Speaker 1>And I look at that now, and I was desiring

494
00:24:38.519 --> 00:24:40.599
<v Speaker 1>of meaning and I was finding it there. At the time.

495
00:24:41.759 --> 00:24:44.319
<v Speaker 1>I was primed for those experiences, and I was part

496
00:24:44.319 --> 00:24:46.400
<v Speaker 1>of a group that I really wanted to be part of,

497
00:24:46.640 --> 00:24:49.079
<v Speaker 1>and it developed that for me. So I think that

498
00:24:49.200 --> 00:24:51.960
<v Speaker 1>quite a few spiritual experiences can also be explained that way,

499
00:24:52.039 --> 00:24:55.319
<v Speaker 1>that we're opting into a part of ourselves that's open

500
00:24:55.400 --> 00:24:58.640
<v Speaker 1>to that. Yeah. So all that to say, what do

501
00:24:58.720 --> 00:24:59.400
<v Speaker 1>you think there, Chloe?

502
00:25:00.559 --> 00:25:04.200
<v Speaker 4>What I think is unfortunately nothing. I have no idea

503
00:25:04.240 --> 00:25:07.079
<v Speaker 4>what to make of it from my uh from from

504
00:25:07.119 --> 00:25:09.559
<v Speaker 4>a lay perspective, because I don't know anything about neuros,

505
00:25:09.680 --> 00:25:12.200
<v Speaker 4>and I don't know anything, you know, beyond what I needed,

506
00:25:12.359 --> 00:25:14.359
<v Speaker 4>what I've needed to get by with my mental with

507
00:25:14.440 --> 00:25:17.839
<v Speaker 4>my mental health. But when I feel really, you know,

508
00:25:18.039 --> 00:25:21.319
<v Speaker 4>through meditation and through prayer, and when I pray to

509
00:25:21.400 --> 00:25:23.839
<v Speaker 4>my gods, I'm Norse pagan and they tell me to

510
00:25:23.920 --> 00:25:26.079
<v Speaker 4>go to therapy and take med like, what do I

511
00:25:26.160 --> 00:25:28.359
<v Speaker 4>make of how do I make sense of those experiences?

512
00:25:28.480 --> 00:25:32.559
<v Speaker 4>Like honest yeah, yeah, Like fundamentally, how do I how

513
00:25:32.599 --> 00:25:33.799
<v Speaker 4>do I trust my experience?

514
00:25:33.920 --> 00:25:36.400
<v Speaker 1>What I mean to say, that's a really interesting and

515
00:25:36.519 --> 00:25:39.839
<v Speaker 1>kind of difficult question because when we're talking about spirituality,

516
00:25:40.319 --> 00:25:43.240
<v Speaker 1>we are saying, or when I'm when I'm talking about

517
00:25:43.240 --> 00:25:45.960
<v Speaker 1>it here is it's a byproduct of evolution. I am

518
00:25:46.039 --> 00:25:49.640
<v Speaker 1>finally mentally saying, I realized, don't fully trust your experiences.

519
00:25:49.720 --> 00:25:51.920
<v Speaker 1>And I know that that's really tough and not the

520
00:25:51.960 --> 00:25:54.839
<v Speaker 1>message that I necessarily want to give people, right, So

521
00:25:55.440 --> 00:25:58.000
<v Speaker 1>how I would interpret that? And that's all I can

522
00:25:58.039 --> 00:26:00.480
<v Speaker 1>tell That's really all I can tell you here is

523
00:26:00.559 --> 00:26:03.559
<v Speaker 1>that there's a part of you that is giving you

524
00:26:03.640 --> 00:26:07.440
<v Speaker 1>that information that this is like this belief in this

525
00:26:07.599 --> 00:26:09.920
<v Speaker 1>instance is giving you information that I totally think is

526
00:26:09.960 --> 00:26:14.160
<v Speaker 1>great going to therapy and like seeking mental health solutions,

527
00:26:14.720 --> 00:26:18.440
<v Speaker 1>but it's a way for you to maybe clarify what

528
00:26:18.599 --> 00:26:21.920
<v Speaker 1>it is you're really needing in that moment. Again, I

529
00:26:22.480 --> 00:26:25.119
<v Speaker 1>don't I really don't want to come across as though

530
00:26:25.200 --> 00:26:27.559
<v Speaker 1>I'm telling you what you need to believe about your

531
00:26:27.640 --> 00:26:30.880
<v Speaker 1>own mental health and your own brain. But I think

532
00:26:30.960 --> 00:26:33.519
<v Speaker 1>That's how I would think of it. Is that, you know,

533
00:26:33.640 --> 00:26:35.920
<v Speaker 1>thinking your God's telling you that you need to do

534
00:26:36.000 --> 00:26:39.240
<v Speaker 1>these things to be healthy is awesome and is also

535
00:26:39.799 --> 00:26:43.160
<v Speaker 1>I think something you maybe know deep down inside and

536
00:26:43.319 --> 00:26:48.359
<v Speaker 1>having it come from this external feeling voice maybe validating

537
00:26:48.480 --> 00:26:51.119
<v Speaker 1>and giving you the oofs to go forward with it. Again,

538
00:26:51.160 --> 00:26:52.559
<v Speaker 1>though I don't want to feel like I'm putting something

539
00:26:52.599 --> 00:26:53.000
<v Speaker 1>on you here.

540
00:26:53.200 --> 00:26:57.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I would add that, you know, let's talk about

541
00:26:57.200 --> 00:27:01.079
<v Speaker 2>experiences sans God or san spirituality. Okay, If i have

542
00:27:01.160 --> 00:27:03.119
<v Speaker 2>a week at work where I'm getting really down to

543
00:27:03.160 --> 00:27:05.759
<v Speaker 2>myself and I'm telling myself, Dan, you really I screwed

544
00:27:05.799 --> 00:27:07.720
<v Speaker 2>up at work this week. I'm doing a terrible job.

545
00:27:07.799 --> 00:27:10.240
<v Speaker 2>I really don't think I'm doing all that great and

546
00:27:10.279 --> 00:27:13.480
<v Speaker 2>I'm letting my team down. That's a perspective I might have.

547
00:27:13.640 --> 00:27:16.480
<v Speaker 2>But that might not be something like my co workers

548
00:27:16.599 --> 00:27:19.039
<v Speaker 2>might have for example, right, or somebody else might have.

549
00:27:19.279 --> 00:27:21.640
<v Speaker 2>And like you know, one could be true or one

550
00:27:21.680 --> 00:27:24.960
<v Speaker 2>could not be true. But it's not healthy regardless right

551
00:27:25.039 --> 00:27:26.839
<v Speaker 2>for me to have that perspective, even if I am

552
00:27:26.920 --> 00:27:29.079
<v Speaker 2>making mistakes, even if the things that I am improved

553
00:27:29.160 --> 00:27:31.079
<v Speaker 2>that I need to improve on, like, that's not a

554
00:27:31.160 --> 00:27:33.440
<v Speaker 2>healthy place for me to be at, right, So like,

555
00:27:33.519 --> 00:27:36.240
<v Speaker 2>sometimes your health is more important than whatever is like

556
00:27:36.480 --> 00:27:39.759
<v Speaker 2>objectively true in that moment. Right, So like I in

557
00:27:40.119 --> 00:27:42.519
<v Speaker 2>my experience, I would say, look, I would worry less

558
00:27:42.519 --> 00:27:45.039
<v Speaker 2>about whether the whole is there a God that's telling

559
00:27:45.079 --> 00:27:47.519
<v Speaker 2>me I need to do this thing is happening, versus

560
00:27:47.640 --> 00:27:49.319
<v Speaker 2>I need to do this thing because this is what's

561
00:27:49.400 --> 00:27:51.400
<v Speaker 2>best for me, right, So like that should be your

562
00:27:51.440 --> 00:27:53.799
<v Speaker 2>most important thing. I think take care of yourself first,

563
00:27:53.839 --> 00:27:55.839
<v Speaker 2>because think about this, if there is a God or

564
00:27:55.960 --> 00:27:58.640
<v Speaker 2>God's they probably want you to be healthy if they

565
00:27:58.720 --> 00:28:01.240
<v Speaker 2>want to have a relationship with you, right, So it's

566
00:28:01.359 --> 00:28:02.880
<v Speaker 2>it's a good thing to do regardless.

567
00:28:03.240 --> 00:28:03.359
<v Speaker 5>Right.

568
00:28:03.480 --> 00:28:05.640
<v Speaker 2>And if there's not, well, you should still want to

569
00:28:05.680 --> 00:28:08.359
<v Speaker 2>be healthy, right because you want to live and maximize

570
00:28:08.559 --> 00:28:11.319
<v Speaker 2>life to your full potential. So I think that's how

571
00:28:11.359 --> 00:28:13.240
<v Speaker 2>you should approach it first, is like, hey, let me

572
00:28:13.240 --> 00:28:15.319
<v Speaker 2>get into a place where I can be okay to

573
00:28:15.480 --> 00:28:18.440
<v Speaker 2>even talk about these kinds of questions because that can

574
00:28:18.480 --> 00:28:22.000
<v Speaker 2>be a really life upending thing, right figuring out Okay,

575
00:28:22.119 --> 00:28:24.599
<v Speaker 2>I don't think this thing is real actually, or I

576
00:28:24.680 --> 00:28:26.400
<v Speaker 2>do think this thing is real and I need to

577
00:28:26.440 --> 00:28:29.039
<v Speaker 2>make some serious changes. So either way, like your health

578
00:28:29.160 --> 00:28:31.160
<v Speaker 2>is probably the most important thing you should be looking

579
00:28:31.200 --> 00:28:33.160
<v Speaker 2>at if that's if that's how you're approaching this.

580
00:28:33.559 --> 00:28:35.880
<v Speaker 1>Right something out there in there as well.

581
00:28:35.880 --> 00:28:38.799
<v Speaker 4>I mean, I just wanted to chime in that, you know,

582
00:28:38.920 --> 00:28:41.160
<v Speaker 4>the experience of you know, my God's telling me to

583
00:28:41.200 --> 00:28:43.359
<v Speaker 4>make sure anythink my meds go to therapy is just

584
00:28:43.440 --> 00:28:44.000
<v Speaker 4>an example.

585
00:28:44.519 --> 00:28:47.240
<v Speaker 2>You know. Well you gotta understand as as when we

586
00:28:47.319 --> 00:28:49.279
<v Speaker 2>hear that, we have to address that, right Like, we

587
00:28:49.359 --> 00:28:51.119
<v Speaker 2>can't let that on the table, so you know, we

588
00:28:51.480 --> 00:28:53.200
<v Speaker 2>want to make sure you're doing okay first.

589
00:28:53.440 --> 00:28:57.599
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, oh, definitely, definitely, but yeah, those kind of experiences

590
00:28:57.640 --> 00:28:59.880
<v Speaker 4>where they just hold you in place and make you

591
00:29:00.000 --> 00:29:01.079
<v Speaker 4>fel comfortable with yourself.

592
00:29:01.160 --> 00:29:02.680
<v Speaker 3>Sorry if that doesn't make any sense.

593
00:29:02.559 --> 00:29:06.279
<v Speaker 1>But those are the No, it does in the sense

594
00:29:06.359 --> 00:29:09.960
<v Speaker 1>that I think we can relate to that feeling, that experience.

595
00:29:10.079 --> 00:29:16.480
<v Speaker 1>There's a really interesting existentialist psychologist that you might enjoy,

596
00:29:17.359 --> 00:29:22.759
<v Speaker 1>Irving Yaalam or Irvin Yalom rather, and he created was

597
00:29:22.799 --> 00:29:27.440
<v Speaker 1>a big hand in at least amplifying existentialist therapy. And

598
00:29:28.279 --> 00:29:32.119
<v Speaker 1>he himself did not believe in a god, and so

599
00:29:32.519 --> 00:29:34.799
<v Speaker 1>he talked a lot about his own death anxiety, but

600
00:29:35.039 --> 00:29:38.200
<v Speaker 1>he did talk about the fundamental need before meaning. Another

601
00:29:38.599 --> 00:29:42.079
<v Speaker 1>big name in existentialist psychologist Victor Frankel. They both focused

602
00:29:42.160 --> 00:29:45.799
<v Speaker 1>quite a bit on meaning, and they didn't shy away

603
00:29:45.839 --> 00:29:47.680
<v Speaker 1>from the fact that if they have someone that they're

604
00:29:47.680 --> 00:29:50.519
<v Speaker 1>working with that is a person of faith and that

605
00:29:50.960 --> 00:29:55.839
<v Speaker 1>is entirely fine, there's no virtue to convincing someone hey,

606
00:29:56.119 --> 00:29:59.680
<v Speaker 1>actually all of your experiences are wrong provided because meaning

607
00:29:59.759 --> 00:30:01.759
<v Speaker 1>is just such a huge component of life. So even

608
00:30:01.759 --> 00:30:04.559
<v Speaker 1>if you have existential therapy, it's focused on how you

609
00:30:04.720 --> 00:30:07.599
<v Speaker 1>develop meaning in your life. And I think a fundamental

610
00:30:07.680 --> 00:30:11.279
<v Speaker 1>component of that is also feeling comfortable with yourself, feeling

611
00:30:11.319 --> 00:30:15.319
<v Speaker 1>that you deserve meaning and deserve to live a full

612
00:30:15.400 --> 00:30:19.799
<v Speaker 1>life based on the meaning. Sorry, I can rant about

613
00:30:20.680 --> 00:30:22.839
<v Speaker 1>this sort of thing for a long time, but I

614
00:30:22.920 --> 00:30:27.920
<v Speaker 1>feel like, moving aside from just a focus on being

615
00:30:28.000 --> 00:30:30.039
<v Speaker 1>told to take your medic and go to therapy, the

616
00:30:30.400 --> 00:30:33.759
<v Speaker 1>question of meaning is big for most people. I wouldn't

617
00:30:33.759 --> 00:30:37.240
<v Speaker 1>say oh, because maybe there's exceptions, But I think that

618
00:30:37.640 --> 00:30:40.480
<v Speaker 1>being comfortable with yourself like that to me sounds like

619
00:30:40.519 --> 00:30:44.640
<v Speaker 1>it's fulfilling a fundamental need of yours that I also have.

620
00:30:44.920 --> 00:30:47.000
<v Speaker 1>I just fulfill it a different way.

621
00:30:47.319 --> 00:30:49.440
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, And as a I think it's solely valid, and

622
00:30:49.440 --> 00:30:51.400
<v Speaker 4>I want to make sure that that's not a point

623
00:30:51.440 --> 00:30:52.200
<v Speaker 4>of contention here.

624
00:30:53.000 --> 00:30:55.920
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's just part of how I would make sense

625
00:30:55.960 --> 00:30:59.079
<v Speaker 1>of it for myself looking at it from an atheist perspective.

626
00:31:00.160 --> 00:31:02.880
<v Speaker 4>Those are really the big questions that I had. I

627
00:31:02.960 --> 00:31:05.000
<v Speaker 4>really don't have much else, not unless you've got questions

628
00:31:05.039 --> 00:31:05.839
<v Speaker 4>for me as a theist.

629
00:31:06.359 --> 00:31:08.799
<v Speaker 1>I think my big question for you, and this doesn't

630
00:31:08.839 --> 00:31:11.240
<v Speaker 1>necessarily have to be something to answer right now. I'd

631
00:31:11.279 --> 00:31:14.440
<v Speaker 1>be curious what you wanted to be told about this,

632
00:31:14.960 --> 00:31:17.319
<v Speaker 1>because it looks like it's something that you're working through

633
00:31:17.400 --> 00:31:21.440
<v Speaker 1>and you're thinking about, and you know you you called us,

634
00:31:21.519 --> 00:31:23.680
<v Speaker 1>and I really appreciate your perspective. I appreciate your call.

635
00:31:24.000 --> 00:31:26.359
<v Speaker 1>What is it you want to what you wanted to hear?

636
00:31:26.720 --> 00:31:29.000
<v Speaker 1>And I don't know that you have a perfect answer

637
00:31:29.079 --> 00:31:31.839
<v Speaker 1>for that, but I wonder if inside you there's something

638
00:31:31.920 --> 00:31:35.119
<v Speaker 1>that's like looking for a particular answer, and that's I'd

639
00:31:35.160 --> 00:31:36.960
<v Speaker 1>be curious as to what that is, even if it

640
00:31:37.079 --> 00:31:38.519
<v Speaker 1>might be too personal. Don't want to share in the

641
00:31:38.559 --> 00:31:39.799
<v Speaker 1>air too. Does that make sense?

642
00:31:40.039 --> 00:31:40.160
<v Speaker 2>Oh?

643
00:31:40.200 --> 00:31:43.680
<v Speaker 4>It does. Yeah. If I go into a place where

644
00:31:44.319 --> 00:31:46.319
<v Speaker 4>where people agree with me on the whole nature of

645
00:31:46.400 --> 00:31:48.720
<v Speaker 4>spiritual experience. What am I going to learn? What am

646
00:31:48.759 --> 00:31:50.359
<v Speaker 4>I going to work towards? What am I going to

647
00:31:50.680 --> 00:31:53.079
<v Speaker 4>what's base am I going to explore? So I just

648
00:31:53.200 --> 00:31:57.000
<v Speaker 4>wanted to make sure that my understanding was correct and

649
00:31:57.759 --> 00:31:59.839
<v Speaker 4>make sure that I wasn't coming up this the wrong way.

650
00:32:00.079 --> 00:32:02.599
<v Speaker 4>There really wasn't anything I was expecting or wanting. It

651
00:32:02.720 --> 00:32:05.960
<v Speaker 4>was just I don't know yet, So well.

652
00:32:05.839 --> 00:32:10.599
<v Speaker 1>Thank you for calling Oh sorry, yeah, thank you for

653
00:32:10.680 --> 00:32:13.359
<v Speaker 1>calling me in it. Go ahead and let you go.

654
00:32:13.960 --> 00:32:17.640
<v Speaker 1>But yeah, that I appreciated that perspective, and I feel

655
00:32:17.640 --> 00:32:19.359
<v Speaker 1>like that's something a lot of people are wreaking through

656
00:32:19.400 --> 00:32:23.440
<v Speaker 1>who aren't part of organized religion anymore necessarily and who

657
00:32:23.519 --> 00:32:26.680
<v Speaker 1>are still, you know, looking for something. Feel there's something

658
00:32:27.079 --> 00:32:29.920
<v Speaker 1>I appreciate. Sounds odd, but I appreciate the uncertainty and

659
00:32:29.960 --> 00:32:30.759
<v Speaker 1>the honesty about that.

660
00:32:31.799 --> 00:32:33.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. I think when I was a Christian, I did

661
00:32:34.000 --> 00:32:38.279
<v Speaker 2>struggle with sense of life purpose, right. I thought I

662
00:32:38.400 --> 00:32:40.400
<v Speaker 2>was waiting for God to tell me what he wanted

663
00:32:40.440 --> 00:32:44.039
<v Speaker 2>me to do with my life, basically, And I regret

664
00:32:44.160 --> 00:32:46.720
<v Speaker 2>that now because I felt like there was a lot

665
00:32:46.759 --> 00:32:49.720
<v Speaker 2>of time I could have invested in myself in doing

666
00:32:49.799 --> 00:32:51.720
<v Speaker 2>what I wanted to do versus what I thought God

667
00:32:51.839 --> 00:32:54.240
<v Speaker 2>wanted me to do, because because you know, whatever conclusion

668
00:32:54.279 --> 00:32:56.000
<v Speaker 2>I would have come to probably would have been some

669
00:32:56.160 --> 00:32:59.720
<v Speaker 2>mix of both anyway, right, Like I don't think if

670
00:33:00.759 --> 00:33:03.119
<v Speaker 2>you like hate animals, but then like I don't know,

671
00:33:03.400 --> 00:33:05.319
<v Speaker 2>God says, oh you need to be a zoo keeper,

672
00:33:05.359 --> 00:33:07.119
<v Speaker 2>I feel like you don't hear that story. I feel

673
00:33:07.160 --> 00:33:08.880
<v Speaker 2>like it's always like, oh, God told me to do

674
00:33:09.000 --> 00:33:10.880
<v Speaker 2>this thing, which happens to be the thing I love

675
00:33:11.200 --> 00:33:13.480
<v Speaker 2>doing the most. Right, So, like, you know, I think

676
00:33:13.519 --> 00:33:15.799
<v Speaker 2>you'll work that out usually, but you know, point is right,

677
00:33:15.960 --> 00:33:20.240
<v Speaker 2>Like I don't need spiritual explanations or experiences to necessarily

678
00:33:20.400 --> 00:33:23.240
<v Speaker 2>dictate how I should live my life. Right, And it's

679
00:33:23.279 --> 00:33:25.720
<v Speaker 2>a harder way to live because I don't get the

680
00:33:25.920 --> 00:33:31.279
<v Speaker 2>benefit of having a divine officer give me commands on

681
00:33:31.799 --> 00:33:33.240
<v Speaker 2>what I need to do. I have to kind of

682
00:33:33.279 --> 00:33:35.079
<v Speaker 2>figure it out for myself. But it's it's something that

683
00:33:35.160 --> 00:33:37.440
<v Speaker 2>we all have to deal with, right. So there's pros

684
00:33:37.480 --> 00:33:40.480
<v Speaker 2>and cons. The pro being you have an immense freedom,

685
00:33:40.920 --> 00:33:43.559
<v Speaker 2>the con being what do you do with that freedom?

686
00:33:44.039 --> 00:33:47.480
<v Speaker 2>It's a choice paralysis problem because now everything is open

687
00:33:47.519 --> 00:33:49.200
<v Speaker 2>to you, and so what do you do with that?

688
00:33:49.559 --> 00:33:49.720
<v Speaker 5>Right?

689
00:33:50.680 --> 00:33:53.279
<v Speaker 2>So that's that's how I interpret, you know, my own

690
00:33:53.359 --> 00:33:56.079
<v Speaker 2>sense of finding identity and purpose now as an atheist

691
00:33:56.160 --> 00:33:58.119
<v Speaker 2>is just I got to figure that shit out. For me.

692
00:33:58.240 --> 00:34:00.640
<v Speaker 2>It's reading a lot of books and going to work

693
00:34:00.960 --> 00:34:03.839
<v Speaker 2>and living life, and that's that's how I'm doing it.

694
00:34:03.920 --> 00:34:06.480
<v Speaker 2>And it's working out okay so far. I'll tell you

695
00:34:06.559 --> 00:34:08.480
<v Speaker 2>if that changes, if I need to go, you know,

696
00:34:08.639 --> 00:34:11.400
<v Speaker 2>study with some Tibetan monks or something to figure out

697
00:34:11.440 --> 00:34:13.760
<v Speaker 2>the next phase of my life. But it's working out

698
00:34:13.800 --> 00:34:14.400
<v Speaker 2>okay right now.

699
00:34:15.920 --> 00:34:18.039
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I feel like it's funny that you bring up

700
00:34:18.079 --> 00:34:20.519
<v Speaker 1>freedom because not to be such a wonk and a

701
00:34:20.599 --> 00:34:25.639
<v Speaker 1>nerd right now, but Irvin yallam, like freedom and death

702
00:34:25.760 --> 00:34:27.960
<v Speaker 1>are two of the things that he freedom, death, meaning

703
00:34:28.239 --> 00:34:30.400
<v Speaker 1>those are like three of his big central tenants. There's

704
00:34:30.400 --> 00:34:32.039
<v Speaker 1>a fourth one that I'm sure someone's yelling at their

705
00:34:32.079 --> 00:34:33.920
<v Speaker 1>screen because they remember, but I don't right now.

706
00:34:34.760 --> 00:34:37.800
<v Speaker 2>And Pejor Frankel's book is literally called Man's Search for Meeting.

707
00:34:37.960 --> 00:34:39.679
<v Speaker 2>Yeah it's too.

708
00:34:39.800 --> 00:34:41.679
<v Speaker 1>Which I think I've referenced on this show before, which

709
00:34:41.719 --> 00:34:43.840
<v Speaker 1>is pretty funny because I'm like, yeah, just going into

710
00:34:43.920 --> 00:34:47.960
<v Speaker 1>existential or existential psychology, I suppose you kind of have

711
00:34:48.159 --> 00:34:48.880
<v Speaker 1>to you.

712
00:34:48.960 --> 00:34:51.079
<v Speaker 2>Kind of have to when you talk about meaning, because

713
00:34:52.519 --> 00:34:54.440
<v Speaker 2>there was a time where people got through meeting from

714
00:34:55.079 --> 00:34:57.320
<v Speaker 2>contemporary Western society got through meeting from God, and now

715
00:34:57.360 --> 00:34:59.360
<v Speaker 2>we don't, at least some of us don't. So what

716
00:34:59.400 --> 00:35:01.079
<v Speaker 2>do you do with that? That's the question. That's what

717
00:35:01.119 --> 00:35:03.800
<v Speaker 2>everybody's trying to figure out. And I don't know. Some

718
00:35:03.920 --> 00:35:08.239
<v Speaker 2>people turn to other religions. Most most folks I've talked

719
00:35:08.280 --> 00:35:11.239
<v Speaker 2>to from the pagan communities we're a Christian at some point.

720
00:35:11.960 --> 00:35:14.000
<v Speaker 2>It's very un new. There are some that we're kind

721
00:35:14.039 --> 00:35:15.800
<v Speaker 2>of mostly atheists, But most of the time when I

722
00:35:15.880 --> 00:35:18.920
<v Speaker 2>talk to it's folks who experienced spirituality in other mediums

723
00:35:18.960 --> 00:35:21.000
<v Speaker 2>that weren't satisfying enough to them, and a lot of

724
00:35:21.079 --> 00:35:25.880
<v Speaker 2>them find more satisfactory experience through through paganism. So that

725
00:35:26.119 --> 00:35:29.320
<v Speaker 2>you know, that's that's that's like a shift in people's

726
00:35:29.800 --> 00:35:32.440
<v Speaker 2>self identity in reflection of themselves to the world in

727
00:35:32.480 --> 00:35:34.159
<v Speaker 2>the same way that we do. We figure out that

728
00:35:34.280 --> 00:35:36.760
<v Speaker 2>we're no longer Christians, but we go the atheist way.

729
00:35:36.800 --> 00:35:38.880
<v Speaker 2>We have to figure out our own ways of navigating that.

730
00:35:39.079 --> 00:35:42.199
<v Speaker 2>So you know, I'm not saying that that makes paganism, uh.

731
00:35:42.360 --> 00:35:44.440
<v Speaker 2>You know, obviously I believe that there are gods or anything.

732
00:35:44.480 --> 00:35:47.239
<v Speaker 2>I just think that that's the way that people interpret

733
00:35:47.280 --> 00:35:48.679
<v Speaker 2>their life experience.

734
00:35:48.559 --> 00:35:50.320
<v Speaker 1>A lot of answers to it, and I think that

735
00:35:51.000 --> 00:35:54.039
<v Speaker 1>when we're thinking about meaning, it's it's really hard to

736
00:35:54.079 --> 00:35:56.239
<v Speaker 1>dictate how that should be answered for folks, right, And

737
00:35:56.400 --> 00:35:57.960
<v Speaker 1>I definitely don't think that's what we're trying to do.

738
00:35:58.119 --> 00:36:01.400
<v Speaker 1>But yeah, on that note, I'm going to give a

739
00:36:01.440 --> 00:36:04.360
<v Speaker 1>few announcements before we take our next call do it so.

740
00:36:04.840 --> 00:36:08.039
<v Speaker 1>We are excited to announce the return of our popular

741
00:36:08.119 --> 00:36:11.679
<v Speaker 1>brick fundraiser. After the overwhelming success of our first round,

742
00:36:11.760 --> 00:36:14.599
<v Speaker 1>we're opening up another opportunity for you to leave your

743
00:36:14.719 --> 00:36:18.719
<v Speaker 1>mark with the ACA by purchasing an engraved brick. Like

744
00:36:18.760 --> 00:36:20.239
<v Speaker 1>I feel like you guys have probably seen those little

745
00:36:20.280 --> 00:36:22.119
<v Speaker 1>library or something. I feel like it's such a cool

746
00:36:22.159 --> 00:36:25.800
<v Speaker 1>thing to see. You can contribute to the creation of

747
00:36:26.159 --> 00:36:28.960
<v Speaker 1>beautiful patio. Look at those Look at those gorgeous bricks

748
00:36:30.239 --> 00:36:33.840
<v Speaker 1>that showcases the heartfelt messages of our generous donor. Each

749
00:36:33.880 --> 00:36:35.840
<v Speaker 1>brick will be inscribed to your personal text, making it

750
00:36:35.920 --> 00:36:39.360
<v Speaker 1>a lasting tribute to your support. So join us in

751
00:36:39.400 --> 00:36:42.400
<v Speaker 1>building a space that celebrates our community and the impact

752
00:36:42.559 --> 00:36:44.679
<v Speaker 1>of your contributions. Look at all that work going in.

753
00:36:44.800 --> 00:36:49.159
<v Speaker 1>That's gorgeous, amazing. Get your brick at tiny dot cc

754
00:36:49.400 --> 00:36:54.079
<v Speaker 1>slash ACA Bricks. That's tiny dot cc slash ACA Bricks.

755
00:36:54.079 --> 00:36:56.639
<v Speaker 1>And I'm actually really glad this has come back because

756
00:36:56.840 --> 00:36:58.880
<v Speaker 1>I meant to get one the first time and I didn't,

757
00:36:58.960 --> 00:37:00.320
<v Speaker 1>So yeah, I get to have. I know.

758
00:37:01.800 --> 00:37:03.639
<v Speaker 2>To Tina, who is a member of our board and

759
00:37:03.679 --> 00:37:05.599
<v Speaker 2>also is in that video, and she told me when

760
00:37:05.599 --> 00:37:07.800
<v Speaker 2>we were at the backer she hates that video because

761
00:37:08.000 --> 00:37:10.159
<v Speaker 2>she's like standing there in it and she's like not

762
00:37:10.320 --> 00:37:13.000
<v Speaker 2>actually doing any brickwork stuff. But she's a very hard

763
00:37:13.079 --> 00:37:14.719
<v Speaker 2>worker and does a lot of stuff in the ACA.

764
00:37:14.920 --> 00:37:16.960
<v Speaker 2>So give it a shout out to Tina there because

765
00:37:17.320 --> 00:37:18.280
<v Speaker 2>I just think that's funny.

766
00:37:18.440 --> 00:37:28.639
<v Speaker 1>That justice for Tina. She she absolutely does hard. That's amazing. Yeah, yeah,

767
00:37:28.760 --> 00:37:31.320
<v Speaker 1>one hundercent. So next thing we want to call your

768
00:37:31.320 --> 00:37:35.880
<v Speaker 1>attention to is that there are principal call in flyers

769
00:37:36.159 --> 00:37:39.119
<v Speaker 1>at China dot cc slash ACA flyers. You can see

770
00:37:39.159 --> 00:37:41.880
<v Speaker 1>them there on the screen, so you can post these

771
00:37:42.039 --> 00:37:44.719
<v Speaker 1>with permission to community bulletin boards so people know they

772
00:37:44.760 --> 00:37:47.239
<v Speaker 1>should call our show and defend their faith. If you

773
00:37:47.639 --> 00:37:49.880
<v Speaker 1>do post any flyers, make sure it's not a picture

774
00:37:49.960 --> 00:37:52.960
<v Speaker 1>of it in place and send it to TV at

775
00:37:53.199 --> 00:37:58.280
<v Speaker 1>Atheist dash community dot org. It's TV at it's atheist,

776
00:37:58.360 --> 00:38:01.159
<v Speaker 1>and then a little normal looking dash community dot org,

777
00:38:01.719 --> 00:38:04.320
<v Speaker 1>and we may feature your photo on an upcoming show.

778
00:38:04.480 --> 00:38:06.119
<v Speaker 1>Like these are really cool to get people to call

779
00:38:06.199 --> 00:38:08.960
<v Speaker 1>in and have a chat with us, So that would

780
00:38:09.000 --> 00:38:11.239
<v Speaker 1>be awesome. You can get those again at tiny dot

781
00:38:11.320 --> 00:38:16.440
<v Speaker 1>cc slash ACA flyers. Yeah, you should also give a

782
00:38:16.719 --> 00:38:19.079
<v Speaker 1>call to So I'm sorry, I'm going to restart that

783
00:38:19.119 --> 00:38:23.519
<v Speaker 1>whole sentence. You should follow Talk Heathen on TikTok, which

784
00:38:23.639 --> 00:38:26.199
<v Speaker 1>Richard works very hard on. We appreciate Richard so much

785
00:38:27.320 --> 00:38:30.119
<v Speaker 1>at talk He then all one word Talk Heathen and

786
00:38:30.280 --> 00:38:33.159
<v Speaker 1>join us for our pre show lives at the ACA.

787
00:38:33.719 --> 00:38:37.159
<v Speaker 1>Uh yeah, so Atheist Community of Austin. Okay, So there's

788
00:38:37.159 --> 00:38:40.000
<v Speaker 1>an Atheist Community of Boston TikTok and a Talk Keithen TikTok.

789
00:38:40.239 --> 00:38:43.079
<v Speaker 2>That's right. That's awesome about the Talk Heathen TikTok is

790
00:38:43.119 --> 00:38:46.719
<v Speaker 2>that Richard is always going live beforehand, and when he's live,

791
00:38:46.920 --> 00:38:49.599
<v Speaker 2>you know, obviously like we're here trying to like get

792
00:38:49.639 --> 00:38:52.239
<v Speaker 2>stuff ready for the show, he could absolutely be talking

793
00:38:52.360 --> 00:38:55.280
<v Speaker 2>mad shit and we would never know because we have

794
00:38:55.400 --> 00:38:57.639
<v Speaker 2>to get so ready for the show. And uh, I'm

795
00:38:57.800 --> 00:38:59.960
<v Speaker 2>going back and looking at those lives I don't know about.

796
00:39:00.480 --> 00:39:03.000
<v Speaker 2>So he could absolutely get away with it and we

797
00:39:03.079 --> 00:39:04.559
<v Speaker 2>would we would be none the wiser.

798
00:39:04.679 --> 00:39:06.079
<v Speaker 1>So I almost hope you.

799
00:39:07.880 --> 00:39:08.199
<v Speaker 5>For us.

800
00:39:08.280 --> 00:39:10.119
<v Speaker 2>Yes, yeah, let us know.

801
00:39:11.599 --> 00:39:15.079
<v Speaker 1>That is amazing. He's just like Sophia can't read out

802
00:39:15.119 --> 00:39:18.199
<v Speaker 1>loud today. That's very clear. Uh, that's what he's probably saying.

803
00:39:18.280 --> 00:39:21.159
<v Speaker 1>I'm feeling like right now. We also have merch, so

804
00:39:21.400 --> 00:39:24.360
<v Speaker 1>get your talk Heathen merch at tiny dot cc slash

805
00:39:24.679 --> 00:39:28.199
<v Speaker 1>slash merch a c A. That's tiny dot c c

806
00:39:28.440 --> 00:39:32.199
<v Speaker 1>slash m e r c h a c A. There's

807
00:39:32.679 --> 00:39:37.960
<v Speaker 1>new pins and backpacks, onesies. I needed a onesie real bad.

808
00:39:38.039 --> 00:39:40.800
<v Speaker 1>I need it so much, and youth tease so you

809
00:39:40.880 --> 00:39:43.960
<v Speaker 1>can outfit your whole family and talk Heathan Gear And

810
00:39:44.679 --> 00:39:48.920
<v Speaker 1>I mean that sounds amazing. And please like this video

811
00:39:49.079 --> 00:39:53.079
<v Speaker 1>and subscribe to the channel, enable notifications. Comment below on

812
00:39:53.199 --> 00:39:57.440
<v Speaker 1>your favorite caller, on your opinions and violent reactions, whateverybody

813
00:39:57.559 --> 00:39:59.519
<v Speaker 1>is that you want to you know your reaction to

814
00:39:59.599 --> 00:40:02.280
<v Speaker 1>the show, so you know all the all the YouTube

815
00:40:02.320 --> 00:40:05.000
<v Speaker 1>stuff that helps us out, that really does help us

816
00:40:05.039 --> 00:40:08.440
<v Speaker 1>get seen, which helps more people call in helps more

817
00:40:08.440 --> 00:40:10.719
<v Speaker 1>people think a little bit more harder about their beliefs,

818
00:40:10.760 --> 00:40:12.400
<v Speaker 1>does all the good things the show does. You can

819
00:40:12.519 --> 00:40:16.960
<v Speaker 1>help by just hitting like and subscribing and enabling notifications

820
00:40:17.000 --> 00:40:19.679
<v Speaker 1>which is a little bell icon in case you didn't

821
00:40:19.719 --> 00:40:23.519
<v Speaker 1>know that, and commending below. So with all of that,

822
00:40:24.239 --> 00:40:29.719
<v Speaker 1>let's take another call. We have Marlin. He him from

823
00:40:29.800 --> 00:40:32.280
<v Speaker 1>the Philippines. Shout out to the Philippines. I lived there

824
00:40:32.320 --> 00:40:35.239
<v Speaker 1>for a bit, super cool. I would like to discuss

825
00:40:35.360 --> 00:40:38.320
<v Speaker 1>about my paranormal experience and how it proves that spiritus

826
00:40:38.440 --> 00:40:43.599
<v Speaker 1>spirits are real and documented. So Marlin, thank you for

827
00:40:43.800 --> 00:40:46.840
<v Speaker 1>calling tell us, tell us your thoughts here on the

828
00:40:46.920 --> 00:40:49.480
<v Speaker 1>spiritual experience you had and what that proves for you.

829
00:40:49.880 --> 00:40:52.239
<v Speaker 5>Hello, guys, how are you hie?

830
00:40:53.159 --> 00:40:56.400
<v Speaker 1>Do it all right? What's up? What's up with your

831
00:40:56.800 --> 00:40:59.679
<v Speaker 1>your thought here? I'm curious that spirits are real and documented?

832
00:40:59.840 --> 00:41:00.400
<v Speaker 1>About that?

833
00:41:00.840 --> 00:41:05.280
<v Speaker 5>Well, well, it's because there has been an incident on

834
00:41:05.719 --> 00:41:11.159
<v Speaker 5>a playground. This is located on a schooled a cemetery

835
00:41:11.320 --> 00:41:15.519
<v Speaker 5>and then there are people walking by day they noticed

836
00:41:15.639 --> 00:41:20.440
<v Speaker 5>the issuing on the playground. It never stops moving, it

837
00:41:21.079 --> 00:41:25.559
<v Speaker 5>just keeps swinging back and forth and until the cups

838
00:41:25.639 --> 00:41:29.280
<v Speaker 5>were called and even the police has has saw it.

839
00:41:29.679 --> 00:41:33.480
<v Speaker 5>Even the police has been involved in the local news.

840
00:41:34.000 --> 00:41:37.880
<v Speaker 5>They came in with the dogs and there were people

841
00:41:38.079 --> 00:41:43.239
<v Speaker 5>that that's saw shadow figures over in that playground area

842
00:41:43.320 --> 00:41:47.280
<v Speaker 5>of the school. So yeah, it has been documented.

843
00:41:47.880 --> 00:41:51.840
<v Speaker 2>So to me that gives including me where where has

844
00:41:51.880 --> 00:41:54.280
<v Speaker 2>this been documented? Is there a website for this?

845
00:41:54.440 --> 00:41:54.599
<v Speaker 1>Is that?

846
00:41:54.920 --> 00:41:57.639
<v Speaker 5>Or and the local local news?

847
00:41:58.599 --> 00:41:58.840
<v Speaker 4>Okay?

848
00:41:59.079 --> 00:42:01.440
<v Speaker 2>Is there paper? Is there? Is there a reference? We

849
00:42:01.519 --> 00:42:04.119
<v Speaker 2>could look at this on the newspaper.

850
00:42:04.599 --> 00:42:10.800
<v Speaker 5>Interness it's been told in GMA. I think GMA there

851
00:42:11.000 --> 00:42:14.679
<v Speaker 5>was a program called kmgs.

852
00:42:14.920 --> 00:42:17.920
<v Speaker 1>Okay, So I think that the way of that I

853
00:42:18.039 --> 00:42:21.480
<v Speaker 1>might view this. Though, Yeah, I feel like local papers

854
00:42:21.559 --> 00:42:24.239
<v Speaker 1>do tend to report a lot of things that don't

855
00:42:24.320 --> 00:42:27.239
<v Speaker 1>necessarily turn out to be super well substantiated, just because

856
00:42:27.280 --> 00:42:29.960
<v Speaker 1>they're looking for news. But I would also say that

857
00:42:30.679 --> 00:42:33.039
<v Speaker 1>this kind of sounds like an incident to me that

858
00:42:33.280 --> 00:42:36.239
<v Speaker 1>could be a sort of like one person thought they

859
00:42:36.320 --> 00:42:40.199
<v Speaker 1>saw something and then it became the suggestion that that's

860
00:42:40.199 --> 00:42:42.840
<v Speaker 1>what you're supposed to see. And I know it's hard

861
00:42:42.880 --> 00:42:45.360
<v Speaker 1>because in a way I'm saying like I doubt your

862
00:42:45.400 --> 00:42:49.039
<v Speaker 1>personal experience, but I think that sometimes we're primed to

863
00:42:49.159 --> 00:42:51.360
<v Speaker 1>see things. I think that if we go by and

864
00:42:51.440 --> 00:42:55.679
<v Speaker 1>the there's a breeze or something happening, that it's entirely

865
00:42:55.800 --> 00:42:58.360
<v Speaker 1>possible that that we see what we expect to see,

866
00:42:58.400 --> 00:43:00.599
<v Speaker 1>that we're going to see a figure, see a shadow,

867
00:43:00.760 --> 00:43:03.519
<v Speaker 1>and not look for natural explanations because we're ready to

868
00:43:03.599 --> 00:43:05.239
<v Speaker 1>believe a spiritual explanation.

869
00:43:06.199 --> 00:43:10.159
<v Speaker 5>The swing step nevers stop moving. It's nevers stopped moving.

870
00:43:10.599 --> 00:43:11.440
<v Speaker 2>They tried to do.

871
00:43:11.760 --> 00:43:13.480
<v Speaker 5>Anything they can intervene.

872
00:43:14.239 --> 00:43:16.840
<v Speaker 2>I'm assuming it's stopped now, like it's not still going.

873
00:43:16.800 --> 00:43:22.679
<v Speaker 5>Right, Yes, going for a couple of our Okay, well.

874
00:43:22.559 --> 00:43:27.320
<v Speaker 2>Again, I'm desperately trying to google stuff here that I

875
00:43:27.400 --> 00:43:29.280
<v Speaker 2>think in the future. And this is for anybody that

876
00:43:29.400 --> 00:43:32.079
<v Speaker 2>calls in. If you have a specific experience and you

877
00:43:32.199 --> 00:43:35.239
<v Speaker 2>say this is documented publicly, you should be ready to

878
00:43:35.320 --> 00:43:37.639
<v Speaker 2>provide that source to us so that we can take

879
00:43:37.679 --> 00:43:39.880
<v Speaker 2>a look, because otherwise it's going to be your word

880
00:43:40.000 --> 00:43:42.840
<v Speaker 2>versus our world, right, Marlin, Like, I can't verify that

881
00:43:42.920 --> 00:43:45.440
<v Speaker 2>what you're saying is true without having a source to

882
00:43:45.480 --> 00:43:48.119
<v Speaker 2>look at it, right, Otherwise we have to just blindly

883
00:43:48.199 --> 00:43:51.159
<v Speaker 2>speculate based on what you're telling us, And that's not

884
00:43:51.239 --> 00:43:53.079
<v Speaker 2>a super great way for us to figure out if

885
00:43:53.119 --> 00:43:55.239
<v Speaker 2>something's true or not right, Like, we have to be

886
00:43:55.280 --> 00:43:56.800
<v Speaker 2>able to kind of look at the facts of a

887
00:43:56.880 --> 00:43:59.679
<v Speaker 2>situation and see what's actually going on here, because maybe

888
00:43:59.679 --> 00:44:01.719
<v Speaker 2>it was going on for hours, maybe it was just

889
00:44:01.840 --> 00:44:04.840
<v Speaker 2>for a little bit. Maybe maybe it wasn't actually reported

890
00:44:04.880 --> 00:44:07.599
<v Speaker 2>on the paper, maybe it was reported on a forum somewhere. Right,

891
00:44:07.639 --> 00:44:09.760
<v Speaker 2>there could be some differences here that we're not going

892
00:44:09.800 --> 00:44:12.280
<v Speaker 2>to be able to verify unless we have that information handy.

893
00:44:12.320 --> 00:44:14.519
<v Speaker 2>Does that make sense, Yes, I understand.

894
00:44:14.679 --> 00:44:17.920
<v Speaker 1>De Yeah, I think that that's pretty important because we

895
00:44:18.039 --> 00:44:20.039
<v Speaker 1>kind of just are, like I guess that might have happened.

896
00:44:20.119 --> 00:44:23.480
<v Speaker 1>We don't necessarily have anything to look at here. I

897
00:44:23.559 --> 00:44:27.079
<v Speaker 1>would also I would be interested to know your thoughts

898
00:44:27.119 --> 00:44:30.440
<v Speaker 1>on a particular TV show. So have you ever heard

899
00:44:30.480 --> 00:44:32.199
<v Speaker 1>of Paranormal Home Inspectors.

900
00:44:32.480 --> 00:44:34.639
<v Speaker 2>I've seen that shit, it's been great.

901
00:44:36.639 --> 00:44:40.800
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I if it's available, I highly recommend it. I

902
00:44:40.800 --> 00:44:42.639
<v Speaker 1>actually can't've been looking for like, because I think it

903
00:44:42.719 --> 00:44:46.119
<v Speaker 1>aired initially in Canada, so I can't in America see

904
00:44:46.159 --> 00:44:48.239
<v Speaker 1>exactly where I can watch it. But it's super fun

905
00:44:48.320 --> 00:44:52.440
<v Speaker 1>because they take a psychic and a paranormal researcher and

906
00:44:52.840 --> 00:44:55.559
<v Speaker 1>a certified home inspector into the home of someone who

907
00:44:55.639 --> 00:44:59.159
<v Speaker 1>believes they're being haunted, and the people who live there

908
00:44:59.400 --> 00:45:02.760
<v Speaker 1>and the site it will usually have experiences that they

909
00:45:02.840 --> 00:45:07.239
<v Speaker 1>feel they can't explain, experiences that they feel are very

910
00:45:07.679 --> 00:45:10.519
<v Speaker 1>concrete evidence of what's going on. And then the home

911
00:45:10.599 --> 00:45:14.360
<v Speaker 1>inspector inspects the house, and almost every single time has

912
00:45:14.639 --> 00:45:18.440
<v Speaker 1>quite a few explanations for, oh, this actually is drafty

913
00:45:18.480 --> 00:45:20.400
<v Speaker 1>and you might not realize it, but that's what's causing

914
00:45:20.440 --> 00:45:23.920
<v Speaker 1>this noise up here, and so these things are connected

915
00:45:24.000 --> 00:45:25.960
<v Speaker 1>and we can actually fix that. It's a problem with

916
00:45:26.039 --> 00:45:30.199
<v Speaker 1>the house. It's not necessarily something that it is paranormal,

917
00:45:30.519 --> 00:45:33.199
<v Speaker 1>as much as that's how people experience it. So I

918
00:45:33.239 --> 00:45:35.079
<v Speaker 1>would be curious if you can, you know, watch that

919
00:45:35.199 --> 00:45:38.000
<v Speaker 1>TV show, because there are a lot of little incidents

920
00:45:38.320 --> 00:45:41.360
<v Speaker 1>that sound very similar to something like a swing continuing

921
00:45:41.440 --> 00:45:43.719
<v Speaker 1>to move when people try to stop it, and there

922
00:45:43.840 --> 00:45:47.519
<v Speaker 1>is a natural explanation the vast majority of the time,

923
00:45:47.599 --> 00:45:50.559
<v Speaker 1>at least, So I would say, you know, I'm certainly

924
00:45:50.599 --> 00:45:56.519
<v Speaker 1>skeptical of this being proof of anything, partially because I am,

925
00:45:56.679 --> 00:45:58.440
<v Speaker 1>like you know, I think that there's a lot of

926
00:45:58.480 --> 00:46:02.119
<v Speaker 1>times a natural explanation without actually having the news story.

927
00:46:02.159 --> 00:46:04.440
<v Speaker 1>We can't speak too specifically to it. But I think

928
00:46:04.480 --> 00:46:05.400
<v Speaker 1>that's my take.

929
00:46:05.679 --> 00:46:10.639
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, And I've talked about calling about this to you guys,

930
00:46:10.800 --> 00:46:14.360
<v Speaker 5>because I have a big deal and a couple of

931
00:46:14.480 --> 00:46:18.880
<v Speaker 5>both those of a shadow figure like cut on my phone.

932
00:46:19.320 --> 00:46:23.559
<v Speaker 1>You know, honestly, I would say, send that to the email.

933
00:46:23.840 --> 00:46:27.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, turned to the email wanted truth, wanted what we'll

934
00:46:27.440 --> 00:46:28.920
<v Speaker 2>want to hear it. We'll want to hear it on there.

935
00:46:28.960 --> 00:46:31.039
<v Speaker 2>But here's what I'll say. And I think we'll probably

936
00:46:31.119 --> 00:46:33.960
<v Speaker 2>let you go after this, Marlin. But you know, the

937
00:46:34.039 --> 00:46:38.840
<v Speaker 2>Philippines in particular, extremely Catholic country. Right, every time we

938
00:46:38.880 --> 00:46:41.159
<v Speaker 2>get a call from the Philippines, it's always about demon

939
00:46:41.320 --> 00:46:44.599
<v Speaker 2>possessions or shadow people. I don't know if the Philippines

940
00:46:44.679 --> 00:46:46.480
<v Speaker 2>got something going on that the rest of us don't

941
00:46:46.519 --> 00:46:48.719
<v Speaker 2>have it. But I think the lens of a cultural

942
00:46:48.800 --> 00:46:53.280
<v Speaker 2>experience might reinterpret some facts of a particular matter that

943
00:46:53.320 --> 00:46:55.960
<v Speaker 2>we that we could see here, and I wouldn't I

944
00:46:56.000 --> 00:46:58.400
<v Speaker 2>wouldn't even doubt that even if a local paper is

945
00:46:58.519 --> 00:47:01.119
<v Speaker 2>reporting on a phenomenon, that there may be some things,

946
00:47:01.159 --> 00:47:03.599
<v Speaker 2>again where a cultural bias might be a play as

947
00:47:03.639 --> 00:47:05.960
<v Speaker 2>to the particular facts of a phenomenon. I think you

948
00:47:06.039 --> 00:47:08.559
<v Speaker 2>have to evaluate in your own mind which is more

949
00:47:08.719 --> 00:47:13.599
<v Speaker 2>likely that people are misremembering, mishearing, or misinterpreting an event

950
00:47:13.679 --> 00:47:16.679
<v Speaker 2>that's happening. Or there's demon figures that are hanging out

951
00:47:16.679 --> 00:47:18.920
<v Speaker 2>at a playground swinging a swing for a couple hours

952
00:47:19.000 --> 00:47:23.239
<v Speaker 2>for apparently no reason whatsoever. Right, Like, you have to

953
00:47:23.280 --> 00:47:25.119
<v Speaker 2>think about, you know, what's going to be more likely

954
00:47:25.199 --> 00:47:27.199
<v Speaker 2>in this case from what I'm hearing you right now,

955
00:47:27.639 --> 00:47:30.360
<v Speaker 2>I'm going with the former, which is just I think

956
00:47:30.480 --> 00:47:33.639
<v Speaker 2>there's a misinterpretation of events that's happening here. I think

957
00:47:33.679 --> 00:47:36.119
<v Speaker 2>maybe there's some telephone going on. If there is some

958
00:47:36.280 --> 00:47:38.480
<v Speaker 2>documentation of this, I'd love to see it, but for

959
00:47:38.599 --> 00:47:40.800
<v Speaker 2>now I don't have that. So that's the that's the

960
00:47:40.880 --> 00:47:43.119
<v Speaker 2>conclusion I'm left with. Does that make sense?

961
00:47:43.559 --> 00:47:46.880
<v Speaker 5>That's also the same case with miracles, you know, like

962
00:47:47.679 --> 00:47:48.920
<v Speaker 5>religious miracles.

963
00:47:49.039 --> 00:47:51.719
<v Speaker 1>Okay, so there's I'm going to go ahead and say

964
00:47:51.800 --> 00:47:55.920
<v Speaker 1>goodbye to you because we actually have another call coming

965
00:47:56.000 --> 00:47:57.639
<v Speaker 1>up that I feel like speaks a little bit to

966
00:47:58.239 --> 00:48:00.840
<v Speaker 1>you know, the what they say is religious phenomenology, and

967
00:48:00.880 --> 00:48:03.800
<v Speaker 1>so I feel like this is kind of paired with that.

968
00:48:03.960 --> 00:48:06.280
<v Speaker 1>We could go on all day about somebody saw a

969
00:48:06.400 --> 00:48:11.960
<v Speaker 1>miracle or experience a particular thing, and that there's you know,

970
00:48:12.440 --> 00:48:16.360
<v Speaker 1>not a lot to substantiate it, but they very firmly

971
00:48:16.400 --> 00:48:19.519
<v Speaker 1>and very earnestly believe in it. So I think that

972
00:48:19.639 --> 00:48:22.840
<v Speaker 1>that's maybe what we have going on here. After living

973
00:48:22.840 --> 00:48:24.559
<v Speaker 1>in the Philippines for a bit. Yes, it is a

974
00:48:24.800 --> 00:48:27.199
<v Speaker 1>country where there's quite a bit of discussions of demons.

975
00:48:27.239 --> 00:48:28.719
<v Speaker 1>There's quite a bit of it's sort of referred to

976
00:48:28.760 --> 00:48:32.239
<v Speaker 1>as folk Catholicism in one textbook I read about it.

977
00:48:32.440 --> 00:48:37.000
<v Speaker 1>I think that every place adapts the faith to their

978
00:48:37.119 --> 00:48:39.480
<v Speaker 1>local culture, right, and I think that this can be

979
00:48:39.559 --> 00:48:41.920
<v Speaker 1>a part of it. It's also it's fun and exciting

980
00:48:42.000 --> 00:48:44.280
<v Speaker 1>to think that there's a spirit there, you know, it's

981
00:48:44.280 --> 00:48:46.320
<v Speaker 1>always exciting to be like, maybe it's a demon.

982
00:48:46.880 --> 00:48:49.039
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. But Marlin, if you're still listening, to answer your

983
00:48:49.119 --> 00:48:51.639
<v Speaker 2>question directly, yes, I do think this applies to pretty

984
00:48:51.679 --> 00:48:54.920
<v Speaker 2>much every miracle that's ever been recorded ever, even modern times.

985
00:48:54.960 --> 00:48:57.440
<v Speaker 2>In the Catholic Church, when they talk about miracles, which

986
00:48:57.480 --> 00:49:00.159
<v Speaker 2>they do have committees for which they allegedly, you know,

987
00:49:00.360 --> 00:49:03.280
<v Speaker 2>go through a rigorous process for determining whether something's a

988
00:49:03.320 --> 00:49:05.559
<v Speaker 2>miracle or not ninety nine percent of the time, and

989
00:49:05.760 --> 00:49:09.079
<v Speaker 2>in modern times, those miracles are going to be medical

990
00:49:09.119 --> 00:49:12.280
<v Speaker 2>phenomenon that we don't have a full understanding of, like

991
00:49:12.400 --> 00:49:15.559
<v Speaker 2>a remission of cancer and stuff. Right, but then when

992
00:49:15.599 --> 00:49:18.199
<v Speaker 2>you go back like five hundred years, it's like they

993
00:49:18.480 --> 00:49:20.599
<v Speaker 2>put her head back on her head and she was

994
00:49:20.719 --> 00:49:23.639
<v Speaker 2>walking around town, and it's like, Okay, well I haven't

995
00:49:23.679 --> 00:49:26.199
<v Speaker 2>seen that, but cool, if it happened, I guess, so

996
00:49:26.320 --> 00:49:26.639
<v Speaker 2>there you go.

997
00:49:26.960 --> 00:49:29.880
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I would also, you know, emphasize that even if

998
00:49:30.000 --> 00:49:33.199
<v Speaker 1>we don't have a perfect explanation for it, it doesn't

999
00:49:33.239 --> 00:49:36.559
<v Speaker 1>necessarily mean that it's a spirit. And as you were

1000
00:49:36.639 --> 00:49:39.360
<v Speaker 1>kind of mentioning that, like, the less we understand about

1001
00:49:39.360 --> 00:49:42.679
<v Speaker 1>the natural world looking back in history, the more we're emphasizing.

1002
00:49:42.679 --> 00:49:44.800
<v Speaker 1>You know, people thought it was a spirit. People literally

1003
00:49:44.880 --> 00:49:49.119
<v Speaker 1>believed Jack Frost existed and painted frost on your windows.

1004
00:49:49.400 --> 00:49:51.960
<v Speaker 1>That's it wasn't like a myth. It was a thing

1005
00:49:52.000 --> 00:49:54.960
<v Speaker 1>they really thought was happening. And we know now that

1006
00:49:55.079 --> 00:49:58.719
<v Speaker 1>that's not necessarily true. So yeah, even if our answer

1007
00:49:58.880 --> 00:50:01.000
<v Speaker 1>was to shrug and say, like that does seem weird,

1008
00:50:01.400 --> 00:50:04.559
<v Speaker 1>it doesn't actually lend itself to believing that it's a spirit.

1009
00:50:04.639 --> 00:50:08.199
<v Speaker 1>It doesn't really prove anything in that vein, which again

1010
00:50:08.360 --> 00:50:10.400
<v Speaker 1>is can be hard. If it's an earnest belief. But

1011
00:50:10.760 --> 00:50:12.719
<v Speaker 1>I think that's my take on that one for sure.

1012
00:50:13.440 --> 00:50:13.639
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

1013
00:50:14.280 --> 00:50:19.639
<v Speaker 1>On that note, let's I feel like this call dovetails

1014
00:50:19.679 --> 00:50:22.840
<v Speaker 1>really well into what we were just talking about. So

1015
00:50:22.960 --> 00:50:26.239
<v Speaker 1>we have Jackie. He him from Mississippi. This is really funny.

1016
00:50:26.239 --> 00:50:27.679
<v Speaker 1>By the way, I lived in the Philippines and I

1017
00:50:27.719 --> 00:50:29.519
<v Speaker 1>also lived in Mississippi for a bit. So we're just

1018
00:50:29.599 --> 00:50:32.760
<v Speaker 1>having like the places that I have lived call in today,

1019
00:50:32.880 --> 00:50:38.519
<v Speaker 1>which is interesting. The case for religious phenomenology. All right,

1020
00:50:39.119 --> 00:50:42.079
<v Speaker 1>so Jackie, give us the case for religious phenomenology.

1021
00:50:42.440 --> 00:50:45.719
<v Speaker 3>Okay, first of all, before Makas, I just want to

1022
00:50:45.840 --> 00:50:49.159
<v Speaker 3>check on how have you been after giving birth.

1023
00:50:49.320 --> 00:50:52.880
<v Speaker 1>Oh, that's so sweet of you. I've been doing all right.

1024
00:50:53.039 --> 00:50:56.119
<v Speaker 1>Everything's you know, recovering as it should. The baby is

1025
00:50:56.199 --> 00:51:01.960
<v Speaker 1>super cool and she, you know, she actually doesn't cry

1026
00:51:02.000 --> 00:51:04.039
<v Speaker 1>as much as I almost feel like she should. And

1027
00:51:04.119 --> 00:51:07.559
<v Speaker 1>it's interesting because this is totally silly, right, but I

1028
00:51:07.800 --> 00:51:11.000
<v Speaker 1>was thinking that, you know, psychopaths, the parents of psychopaths

1029
00:51:11.079 --> 00:51:13.800
<v Speaker 1>and sociopaths always say that their babies didn't cry very much,

1030
00:51:13.920 --> 00:51:16.320
<v Speaker 1>and so I'm kind of like you could cry more. Actually,

1031
00:51:16.480 --> 00:51:18.719
<v Speaker 1>like she's too easy of a baby, if that makes sense.

1032
00:51:19.880 --> 00:51:23.079
<v Speaker 2>But yeah, it's that's a specific lens to view that

1033
00:51:23.239 --> 00:51:25.199
<v Speaker 2>sofia that I feel only you would have.

1034
00:51:25.800 --> 00:51:28.679
<v Speaker 1>My brain is a very strange place.

1035
00:51:28.920 --> 00:51:30.559
<v Speaker 3>I don't think he's extrap away like that.

1036
00:51:31.199 --> 00:51:33.920
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I think you're right. I just am yeah, I

1037
00:51:34.079 --> 00:51:36.320
<v Speaker 1>just am being a little silly about it. It's been

1038
00:51:36.400 --> 00:51:38.559
<v Speaker 1>really exciting to watch my son become an older brother

1039
00:51:38.880 --> 00:51:42.679
<v Speaker 1>also and have he's very cute with the baby and

1040
00:51:43.000 --> 00:51:45.880
<v Speaker 1>that's really great. So yeah, I've been really enjoying it.

1041
00:51:46.000 --> 00:51:48.239
<v Speaker 1>That's incredibly suit of you to ask, so thank you.

1042
00:51:48.960 --> 00:51:52.800
<v Speaker 3>So yeah, I basically wanted to present the case for

1043
00:51:52.880 --> 00:51:56.679
<v Speaker 3>religious phenomenology because so are you guys familiar with the

1044
00:51:56.760 --> 00:51:58.320
<v Speaker 3>term continental philosophy.

1045
00:51:58.639 --> 00:52:00.760
<v Speaker 1>Yes, I'm not. Actually you want to go ahead and

1046
00:52:00.760 --> 00:52:02.079
<v Speaker 1>give us a summary of that one.

1047
00:52:02.480 --> 00:52:07.760
<v Speaker 3>So basically, continental philosophy is philosophy from mainland Europe, so Europe, Uzerdan,

1048
00:52:08.000 --> 00:52:11.119
<v Speaker 3>UK and Ireland. And basically I tend to notice a

1049
00:52:11.159 --> 00:52:15.000
<v Speaker 3>lot of atheists who are publicly advocate for atheism are

1050
00:52:15.079 --> 00:52:17.840
<v Speaker 3>not generally familiar with it, where most people don't have

1051
00:52:17.960 --> 00:52:22.079
<v Speaker 3>that type of mindset. So it includes things like phenomenology, existentialism,

1052
00:52:22.239 --> 00:52:25.239
<v Speaker 3>German idealism, psychoanalysis and other movements.

1053
00:52:25.360 --> 00:52:26.360
<v Speaker 4>And I tend to notice that.

1054
00:52:26.639 --> 00:52:29.280
<v Speaker 3>In the debates about religion, a lot of it goes

1055
00:52:29.320 --> 00:52:33.320
<v Speaker 3>on to like propositional logic and with more the analytics

1056
00:52:33.320 --> 00:52:36.760
<v Speaker 3>style flasia philosophy from America and Europe. And I think

1057
00:52:36.800 --> 00:52:38.960
<v Speaker 3>that's the flaw because it is a major part of

1058
00:52:39.039 --> 00:52:42.800
<v Speaker 3>philosophical component that I don't think it's talked about enough,

1059
00:52:42.960 --> 00:52:46.239
<v Speaker 3>but anyway, that it's sort of condentally related to the point,

1060
00:52:46.800 --> 00:52:49.480
<v Speaker 3>So are either of you guys familiar with the cognitive

1061
00:52:49.519 --> 00:52:51.360
<v Speaker 3>scientist John Vervaiki.

1062
00:52:51.519 --> 00:52:54.760
<v Speaker 2>I was just going out that analytic traditions and continental

1063
00:52:54.960 --> 00:52:57.360
<v Speaker 2>traditions are both Western. I don't know why you'd make

1064
00:52:57.400 --> 00:53:01.199
<v Speaker 2>the distinction between them being like one particular parts in

1065
00:53:01.239 --> 00:53:03.840
<v Speaker 2>America and different parts in Europe, but yeah, they're definitely

1066
00:53:03.880 --> 00:53:08.159
<v Speaker 2>both Western traditions of philosophy and a categorically flawed understanding

1067
00:53:08.840 --> 00:53:13.039
<v Speaker 2>are categorically flawed sort of way in which to view philosophy,

1068
00:53:13.119 --> 00:53:17.280
<v Speaker 2>but they can be broadly useful. But yeah, I can

1069
00:53:17.400 --> 00:53:19.760
<v Speaker 2>concede to your point that, yeah, there is a particular

1070
00:53:19.960 --> 00:53:24.280
<v Speaker 2>lens in which some atheists will look at the structure

1071
00:53:24.320 --> 00:53:28.480
<v Speaker 2>of arguments that may be problematic under some views of philosophy.

1072
00:53:28.599 --> 00:53:31.440
<v Speaker 2>But to your other question, no, I'm not familiar.

1073
00:53:32.159 --> 00:53:36.000
<v Speaker 3>So basically, John Traviki is a cognitive scientist in Canada

1074
00:53:36.360 --> 00:53:38.880
<v Speaker 3>identifies as a non deist, which I disagree with, But

1075
00:53:39.199 --> 00:53:42.920
<v Speaker 3>he basically talks about the case for the problem with

1076
00:53:43.039 --> 00:53:50.360
<v Speaker 3>atheism lacking debility to recognize spiritual and religiousness things ontology, mysticism,

1077
00:53:50.760 --> 00:53:54.239
<v Speaker 3>mysticism being properly construed, not as some new age wlu

1078
00:53:54.280 --> 00:53:59.880
<v Speaker 3>wu stuff, but a genuine ontology, and how participatory engagement

1079
00:54:00.119 --> 00:54:03.800
<v Speaker 3>spirituality in a religious sense transforms people. Or are you

1080
00:54:03.960 --> 00:54:05.280
<v Speaker 3>of you guys familiar with Jordan people.

1081
00:54:05.760 --> 00:54:09.280
<v Speaker 1>Yes, I think we can start maybe with the point

1082
00:54:09.320 --> 00:54:12.559
<v Speaker 1>you just made. Actually, if that's all right, because so

1083
00:54:12.960 --> 00:54:16.400
<v Speaker 1>the premise there, if I'm understanding e correctly, is that

1084
00:54:17.000 --> 00:54:21.880
<v Speaker 1>atheists are not addressing the fact that religious experience changes people.

1085
00:54:22.079 --> 00:54:22.639
<v Speaker 1>Is that correct?

1086
00:54:23.039 --> 00:54:23.159
<v Speaker 4>Uh?

1087
00:54:23.800 --> 00:54:26.239
<v Speaker 3>Maybe? But it's more kind of a novosimplication. I think

1088
00:54:26.280 --> 00:54:28.079
<v Speaker 3>a better way to say it is they don't seem

1089
00:54:28.159 --> 00:54:32.280
<v Speaker 3>to engage with the more essential aspects of the relation

1090
00:54:32.440 --> 00:54:36.360
<v Speaker 3>between cognition and transcendence, if that makes sense, Like what

1091
00:54:36.880 --> 00:54:42.880
<v Speaker 3>like how how relation to the transcendence or influences people's

1092
00:54:42.920 --> 00:54:48.639
<v Speaker 3>decision making, How the transcendence it effects are subconscious or

1093
00:54:48.679 --> 00:54:53.920
<v Speaker 3>psyche or collective unconscious using Choreung's terms, and how participation

1094
00:54:54.159 --> 00:54:59.079
<v Speaker 3>in these reenactments of virtual experiences allows us to tap

1095
00:54:59.159 --> 00:55:00.800
<v Speaker 3>into that ourselves.

1096
00:55:01.199 --> 00:55:04.840
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I don't so what is this a guy's

1097
00:55:04.960 --> 00:55:07.719
<v Speaker 2>opinion or is this research that he's done that says, oh,

1098
00:55:07.800 --> 00:55:10.239
<v Speaker 2>atheists don't do this, Because it sounds like this is

1099
00:55:10.280 --> 00:55:13.239
<v Speaker 2>some guy's opinion. If this is some guy's opinion, I'm

1100
00:55:13.320 --> 00:55:16.760
<v Speaker 2>happy to shay that. Yeah. I recognize that people's understanding

1101
00:55:16.840 --> 00:55:21.360
<v Speaker 2>of their beliefs and their system of beliefs affect their

1102
00:55:21.480 --> 00:55:24.000
<v Speaker 2>social framework, affect their identity. I mean, we were just

1103
00:55:24.039 --> 00:55:26.840
<v Speaker 2>talking about that in our previous call. It definitely affects

1104
00:55:26.880 --> 00:55:29.000
<v Speaker 2>their worldview and how they operate in the world. I

1105
00:55:29.079 --> 00:55:32.039
<v Speaker 2>don't know why me as an atheist means I lack

1106
00:55:32.079 --> 00:55:33.199
<v Speaker 2>an understanding of that.

1107
00:55:34.440 --> 00:55:37.320
<v Speaker 1>I'm curious specifically, Like I mean, I'm not I don't

1108
00:55:37.440 --> 00:55:40.800
<v Speaker 1>go ahead, Oh sorry, I'm curious specifically because I'm kind

1109
00:55:40.800 --> 00:55:42.079
<v Speaker 1>of still trying to get my brain a little bit

1110
00:55:42.119 --> 00:55:44.480
<v Speaker 1>around what it is I'm supposed to be answering here.

1111
00:55:44.639 --> 00:55:47.480
<v Speaker 1>I think, uh, sometimes we get a little lost in jargon,

1112
00:55:47.639 --> 00:55:49.039
<v Speaker 1>and I think that might have happened here to me.

1113
00:55:49.519 --> 00:55:53.599
<v Speaker 1>So I'm looking at the you said essential aspect between cognition,

1114
00:55:53.679 --> 00:55:56.480
<v Speaker 1>and it sounds like kind of a more spiritual experience

1115
00:55:56.639 --> 00:56:00.920
<v Speaker 1>and the ability to have like a subconscious and the

1116
00:56:01.000 --> 00:56:02.000
<v Speaker 1>other components of our.

1117
00:56:01.960 --> 00:56:05.559
<v Speaker 3>Brain, so our either of you guys generally familiar with

1118
00:56:05.719 --> 00:56:10.480
<v Speaker 3>phenomenology like Martin heideger Maurice M. Ponti, Carl Jasper's or

1119
00:56:10.559 --> 00:56:11.119
<v Speaker 3>the other ones.

1120
00:56:11.360 --> 00:56:15.960
<v Speaker 2>Yes, German phenomenology with Highdeger Yes later stuff not as

1121
00:56:16.079 --> 00:56:17.360
<v Speaker 2>much but mostly Yeah.

1122
00:56:17.719 --> 00:56:19.480
<v Speaker 3>The way I would say, it's sort of like Jordan

1123
00:56:19.519 --> 00:56:21.519
<v Speaker 3>Pierson talks about like this, when you see a cup,

1124
00:56:21.599 --> 00:56:23.400
<v Speaker 3>why do you see a cop? Well, because that cup

1125
00:56:23.440 --> 00:56:24.199
<v Speaker 3>provides you water?

1126
00:56:24.440 --> 00:56:25.039
<v Speaker 4>And what does that?

1127
00:56:25.280 --> 00:56:25.440
<v Speaker 1>Why?

1128
00:56:25.719 --> 00:56:26.800
<v Speaker 4>Why is that water valuable?

1129
00:56:26.840 --> 00:56:28.880
<v Speaker 3>Because it helps you live? Why is living valuable? And

1130
00:56:28.960 --> 00:56:31.119
<v Speaker 3>you can go on and on with an infinite regress

1131
00:56:31.159 --> 00:56:35.280
<v Speaker 3>of perception and so basically the phenomenological interpretation of meaning

1132
00:56:35.320 --> 00:56:38.119
<v Speaker 3>in a religious sense, that whatever sits at the pinnacle

1133
00:56:38.239 --> 00:56:41.960
<v Speaker 3>of the infinite regress of reasoning for living and for

1134
00:56:42.159 --> 00:56:46.159
<v Speaker 3>motivation is in the you could say, religious phenomenological domain.

1135
00:56:46.519 --> 00:56:50.320
<v Speaker 3>And I would also argue, using Jordan Pearson talks about

1136
00:56:50.400 --> 00:56:54.840
<v Speaker 3>using Core Jung's that analytics psychology, that there's aspects of

1137
00:56:54.880 --> 00:56:58.840
<v Speaker 3>our subconsciousness, a priori archetypes that we motivate to as

1138
00:56:58.880 --> 00:57:01.760
<v Speaker 3>a human needing. Yes, described in religious language.

1139
00:57:01.880 --> 00:57:04.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, So, Jackie, do you think ninety nine percent of

1140
00:57:04.440 --> 00:57:09.000
<v Speaker 2>Christians understand their relationship with God that way? I mean,

1141
00:57:09.440 --> 00:57:12.480
<v Speaker 2>what do you mean about ninety five percent or ninety percent?

1142
00:57:12.559 --> 00:57:14.800
<v Speaker 2>Do you think any of them are using that language

1143
00:57:14.840 --> 00:57:18.920
<v Speaker 2>to describe their relationship with God or their relationship with

1144
00:57:19.519 --> 00:57:22.920
<v Speaker 2>Christianity as a theological system, right? I don't think. I

1145
00:57:22.960 --> 00:57:25.159
<v Speaker 2>don't think most people are, is my point. I think

1146
00:57:25.199 --> 00:57:28.400
<v Speaker 2>these are particular people who study phenomenology and who write

1147
00:57:28.400 --> 00:57:30.800
<v Speaker 2>papers about this stuff. I don't think that's the world

1148
00:57:30.880 --> 00:57:32.519
<v Speaker 2>I grew up in as a Christian, and I don't

1149
00:57:32.559 --> 00:57:35.000
<v Speaker 2>think most people grew up as so. To be honest,

1150
00:57:35.000 --> 00:57:37.559
<v Speaker 2>I don't really care. Right, Like, what I'm interested in

1151
00:57:38.119 --> 00:57:41.079
<v Speaker 2>is mostly the power dynamics that Christianity brings, but also

1152
00:57:41.440 --> 00:57:44.960
<v Speaker 2>like the real world experience that Christianity brings. I mean,

1153
00:57:45.000 --> 00:57:47.320
<v Speaker 2>we can talk about it in this in this grand

1154
00:57:47.360 --> 00:57:50.960
<v Speaker 2>philosophical sense of the regress of perception and what have you,

1155
00:57:51.599 --> 00:57:55.159
<v Speaker 2>But why does that meaningful to me? It's not like

1156
00:57:55.360 --> 00:57:57.719
<v Speaker 2>I can engage in this conversation all day. But like,

1157
00:57:58.159 --> 00:57:59.920
<v Speaker 2>like what's the point. What am I going to get

1158
00:58:00.599 --> 00:58:02.480
<v Speaker 2>and what are most Christians going to get out of that?

1159
00:58:02.559 --> 00:58:05.239
<v Speaker 3>Even well, the meaningfulness here is the question is arder

1160
00:58:05.320 --> 00:58:08.280
<v Speaker 3>meta narratives and orders meda narratives, what we were described

1161
00:58:08.320 --> 00:58:11.639
<v Speaker 3>as religious or eternal So, like say Nietzsche.

1162
00:58:11.719 --> 00:58:14.320
<v Speaker 2>That's a separate question from everything you've just described.

1163
00:58:16.039 --> 00:58:19.199
<v Speaker 3>To explain just I'm getting down, please, Okay. The way

1164
00:58:19.360 --> 00:58:22.400
<v Speaker 3>the reason it can the overlap here is some of

1165
00:58:22.440 --> 00:58:26.760
<v Speaker 3>the existentialists, like Nietzsche, John Poulsart, we're talking about, Okay,

1166
00:58:27.039 --> 00:58:30.440
<v Speaker 3>existence precedes us. We are not born with a priority

1167
00:58:31.519 --> 00:58:33.800
<v Speaker 3>values and we have to make meaning in our life

1168
00:58:34.679 --> 00:58:38.119
<v Speaker 3>and we should also the thing which between chist right,

1169
00:58:38.159 --> 00:58:40.480
<v Speaker 3>I don't think they were the same, but essentially it's

1170
00:58:40.599 --> 00:58:44.880
<v Speaker 3>rejection of eternal abuse. The reason this is fundamentally wrong.

1171
00:58:45.119 --> 00:58:50.880
<v Speaker 2>Is that's well, I have a critique of your interpretation

1172
00:58:51.000 --> 00:58:53.360
<v Speaker 2>of Nietzsche and Sartro, but yeah, go ahead and keep going.

1173
00:58:53.920 --> 00:58:54.800
<v Speaker 4>And we are born with.

1174
00:58:54.880 --> 00:58:58.400
<v Speaker 3>A priority values in our consciousness and how we perceive

1175
00:58:58.480 --> 00:59:01.320
<v Speaker 3>the world. Right, And I would say, you know, so

1176
00:59:02.519 --> 00:59:07.159
<v Speaker 3>analyze religion in his read books. When people construct meta narratives,

1177
00:59:07.360 --> 00:59:10.559
<v Speaker 3>it's not to oppress people, sort of like a deluge

1178
00:59:10.840 --> 00:59:15.079
<v Speaker 3>or talks about postmodernism, right, power structures are pressed. No,

1179
00:59:15.320 --> 00:59:19.000
<v Speaker 3>the meta narrative there is not one of assortation. You

1180
00:59:19.159 --> 00:59:21.960
<v Speaker 3>need a meta narrative in order to live and have motivation.

1181
00:59:22.119 --> 00:59:25.079
<v Speaker 3>But that meta narrative is not internal. It's a relational,

1182
00:59:25.119 --> 00:59:28.320
<v Speaker 3>and the relational is between your cognition and how you

1183
00:59:28.440 --> 00:59:30.679
<v Speaker 3>experience the world around you in a social compaent.

1184
00:59:31.320 --> 00:59:33.719
<v Speaker 1>So I'm going to pause you there because yeah, I

1185
00:59:33.760 --> 00:59:38.360
<v Speaker 1>think we've reached back to the idea of phenomenology, which

1186
00:59:38.519 --> 00:59:42.000
<v Speaker 1>I think, Okay, we've we've made this circle. I think

1187
00:59:42.800 --> 00:59:44.480
<v Speaker 1>actually you want to start, Dan, I'm going to clarify

1188
00:59:44.519 --> 00:59:45.159
<v Speaker 1>my thoughts real quick.

1189
00:59:45.280 --> 00:59:48.440
<v Speaker 2>Okay, sure, yeah, So yeah, do losing folk call talk

1190
00:59:48.440 --> 00:59:52.039
<v Speaker 2>about post Their postmodern understanding of power dynamics can involve

1191
00:59:52.199 --> 00:59:54.880
<v Speaker 2>a different understanding of meta narratives. Actually, they're the ones

1192
00:59:54.920 --> 00:59:57.760
<v Speaker 2>that are interested in meta narratives. I don't think really,

1193
00:59:59.599 --> 01:00:02.519
<v Speaker 2>sorry to or Nietzsche talk about meta narratives. So I

1194
01:00:02.599 --> 01:00:05.800
<v Speaker 2>don't you know, you've thrown a lot of the stuff

1195
01:00:05.840 --> 01:00:09.679
<v Speaker 2>around here. Well let me let me look. Yeah, I

1196
01:00:09.960 --> 01:00:12.719
<v Speaker 2>don't think that they're super related, and I'm kind of

1197
01:00:12.880 --> 01:00:15.159
<v Speaker 2>using track of what point we're trying to get out here,

1198
01:00:15.239 --> 01:00:17.559
<v Speaker 2>I can engage in all of these ideas. I don't

1199
01:00:17.639 --> 01:00:19.880
<v Speaker 2>know what is the point? What am I missing here?

1200
01:00:20.679 --> 01:00:23.039
<v Speaker 2>One am I as an atheist sort of not getting

1201
01:00:23.079 --> 01:00:27.280
<v Speaker 2>at because I don't recognize that there's a contextual relationship

1202
01:00:27.480 --> 01:00:30.960
<v Speaker 2>with the transcendental with religious people that I somehow don't have.

1203
01:00:31.320 --> 01:00:33.559
<v Speaker 1>Okay, Okay, So I'm going to jump in right there

1204
01:00:33.639 --> 01:00:37.280
<v Speaker 1>real quick, because to address meta narratives, I think we've

1205
01:00:37.320 --> 01:00:39.840
<v Speaker 1>started with a fundamental what I would say is a

1206
01:00:39.880 --> 01:00:42.480
<v Speaker 1>misunderstanding of the idea of a meta narrative. They don't

1207
01:00:42.960 --> 01:00:45.880
<v Speaker 1>It is not my belief in this and how we

1208
01:00:45.960 --> 01:00:48.559
<v Speaker 1>discuss this that they start as a top down thing,

1209
01:00:48.679 --> 01:00:50.719
<v Speaker 1>like we're given a meta narrative from an authority and

1210
01:00:50.760 --> 01:00:53.519
<v Speaker 1>then we just go forward. I believe, and I think

1211
01:00:53.559 --> 01:00:55.400
<v Speaker 1>that if this is fairly well born out, that meta

1212
01:00:55.480 --> 01:00:59.039
<v Speaker 1>narratives are the product of culture. And so even the

1213
01:00:59.079 --> 01:01:01.880
<v Speaker 1>phrase that they're not constructed to oppress, well, they're not

1214
01:01:01.960 --> 01:01:06.679
<v Speaker 1>really constructed consciously. There's something that arise organically out of

1215
01:01:06.719 --> 01:01:09.960
<v Speaker 1>cultures around them. When you're talking about phenomenology, and I've

1216
01:01:09.960 --> 01:01:12.239
<v Speaker 1>been looking it up kind of as we're talking. That's

1217
01:01:12.360 --> 01:01:15.239
<v Speaker 1>referring I'm going to finish what I'm saying. That's referring

1218
01:01:15.599 --> 01:01:20.280
<v Speaker 1>to how we interpret the experience that we're having, right like,

1219
01:01:20.360 --> 01:01:24.239
<v Speaker 1>our understanding of the phenomena that we are experiencing, and

1220
01:01:24.400 --> 01:01:28.599
<v Speaker 1>so meta narratives would impact our understanding of the phenomena

1221
01:01:28.679 --> 01:01:31.320
<v Speaker 1>that we're experiencing. I can see that connection that I

1222
01:01:31.360 --> 01:01:33.639
<v Speaker 1>feel like you're trying to make. In an odd way, though,

1223
01:01:33.840 --> 01:01:36.880
<v Speaker 1>I would argue that this is almost making an argument

1224
01:01:37.000 --> 01:01:39.360
<v Speaker 1>for atheism or for lack of need for a god

1225
01:01:39.519 --> 01:01:42.840
<v Speaker 1>to interpret these things for us, If we're thinking about

1226
01:01:43.360 --> 01:01:46.079
<v Speaker 1>how we experience the world and that comes from a

1227
01:01:46.159 --> 01:01:50.360
<v Speaker 1>meta narrative that really is more culturally dependent, then why

1228
01:01:50.400 --> 01:01:53.679
<v Speaker 1>would we need something to tell us what our value?

1229
01:01:53.679 --> 01:01:56.199
<v Speaker 1>Why would we need a prescribed meta narrative. I think

1230
01:01:56.239 --> 01:01:58.280
<v Speaker 1>it makes a lot more sense to think that, yes,

1231
01:01:58.400 --> 01:02:01.639
<v Speaker 1>our culture in our context determines what we see. Going

1232
01:02:01.719 --> 01:02:04.519
<v Speaker 1>back to the Jordan Peterson example about the cup, that's

1233
01:02:04.559 --> 01:02:06.280
<v Speaker 1>sort of a bizarre one to start with as an

1234
01:02:06.320 --> 01:02:09.599
<v Speaker 1>example of phenomenology, he says we see the cup because

1235
01:02:09.719 --> 01:02:11.480
<v Speaker 1>we drink out of it. I would say we see

1236
01:02:11.480 --> 01:02:14.239
<v Speaker 1>the cup because it's advantageous for us to be able

1237
01:02:14.320 --> 01:02:17.360
<v Speaker 1>to see the cup that our eyes which developed over

1238
01:02:17.559 --> 01:02:20.760
<v Speaker 1>millions and millions of years, are able to perceive food

1239
01:02:20.840 --> 01:02:23.719
<v Speaker 1>sources because that was advantageous for us over time, and

1240
01:02:23.880 --> 01:02:27.039
<v Speaker 1>water sources and all of that. It's not to interpret

1241
01:02:27.119 --> 01:02:30.920
<v Speaker 1>that as divorce from I would say here evolution and

1242
01:02:31.000 --> 01:02:35.119
<v Speaker 1>the evolution of our species would be to misinterpret it.

1243
01:02:35.480 --> 01:02:37.320
<v Speaker 1>We don't see the cup because we feel like a

1244
01:02:37.360 --> 01:02:39.480
<v Speaker 1>cup should be there because we want water. We see

1245
01:02:39.519 --> 01:02:41.400
<v Speaker 1>the cup because it's advantageous for us to be able

1246
01:02:41.440 --> 01:02:44.599
<v Speaker 1>to see that cup. So applying that to religion, if

1247
01:02:44.639 --> 01:02:46.840
<v Speaker 1>we're thinking about a meta narrative, if we're thinking about

1248
01:02:46.880 --> 01:02:49.719
<v Speaker 1>these stories that we live by that come from our culture,

1249
01:02:50.480 --> 01:02:53.599
<v Speaker 1>we see a god maybe because we need to see

1250
01:02:53.639 --> 01:02:55.719
<v Speaker 1>a god, because we want to see a god because

1251
01:02:55.719 --> 01:02:59.039
<v Speaker 1>it makes us feel better. Nothing in anything I've heard

1252
01:02:59.119 --> 01:03:01.519
<v Speaker 1>makes an argument for anything eternal other than the assertion

1253
01:03:01.719 --> 01:03:04.239
<v Speaker 1>that something eternal is there. Does any of that make sense?

1254
01:03:04.519 --> 01:03:07.719
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I think maybe you're just gonna sort of my

1255
01:03:07.760 --> 01:03:10.719
<v Speaker 3>point about postmonderism. My point was the sort of atheistic

1256
01:03:10.840 --> 01:03:15.400
<v Speaker 3>postmodern view is that power meta narratives are constructed in

1257
01:03:15.599 --> 01:03:19.039
<v Speaker 3>power relations to oppress or that I and I said.

1258
01:03:18.880 --> 01:03:20.679
<v Speaker 1>I don't think that's true at all. So at least

1259
01:03:20.719 --> 01:03:20.960
<v Speaker 1>it's not.

1260
01:03:22.400 --> 01:03:24.800
<v Speaker 2>That's what de los in folk all that you talking about?

1261
01:03:24.960 --> 01:03:29.440
<v Speaker 2>Do talk about that? Yes? I don't know me Yeah,

1262
01:03:29.639 --> 01:03:33.199
<v Speaker 2>the regular average Joe atheist. I think that's for postmodern

1263
01:03:33.280 --> 01:03:34.000
<v Speaker 2>schools of thought.

1264
01:03:34.079 --> 01:03:35.920
<v Speaker 1>But yeah, so are you wanting me to argue on

1265
01:03:36.079 --> 01:03:37.480
<v Speaker 1>behalf of fuco?

1266
01:03:37.960 --> 01:03:38.159
<v Speaker 4>Yeah?

1267
01:03:39.320 --> 01:03:41.199
<v Speaker 2>You know this too, Like what do you want from us?

1268
01:03:41.440 --> 01:03:41.480
<v Speaker 3>Like?

1269
01:03:41.559 --> 01:03:43.519
<v Speaker 2>What what are we what are we lacking here that

1270
01:03:43.599 --> 01:03:44.519
<v Speaker 2>we need to understand?

1271
01:03:45.000 --> 01:03:47.119
<v Speaker 6>Well, the main thing is so the claim.

1272
01:03:46.920 --> 01:03:50.920
<v Speaker 3>It's is it is a meta narrative constructed or not constructive?

1273
01:03:51.159 --> 01:03:54.719
<v Speaker 3>Is it developed? You could say? Is it processed culturally? Well,

1274
01:03:55.039 --> 01:03:58.320
<v Speaker 3>you can say when a meta narrative is adopted, you

1275
01:03:58.400 --> 01:04:00.719
<v Speaker 3>can say that you make a choice to adopt it.

1276
01:04:00.840 --> 01:04:03.320
<v Speaker 3>But there are certainly some meta narratives which are more

1277
01:04:03.400 --> 01:04:05.480
<v Speaker 3>true than other meta narratives. And the reason you know

1278
01:04:05.639 --> 01:04:08.719
<v Speaker 3>some meta narratives are true more than other meta narratives

1279
01:04:08.800 --> 01:04:13.039
<v Speaker 3>is because the prescription for modality of being have in

1280
01:04:13.159 --> 01:04:16.760
<v Speaker 3>certain circumstances been more advantageous than others.

1281
01:04:16.840 --> 01:04:17.079
<v Speaker 4>Black.

1282
01:04:17.199 --> 01:04:19.880
<v Speaker 2>Well, yeah, I'm always saying this, dude, Absolutely, Yeah, I'm

1283
01:04:19.880 --> 01:04:22.320
<v Speaker 2>always saying this. Yeah, one hundred percent. Sorry, I'm not

1284
01:04:22.440 --> 01:04:24.400
<v Speaker 2>being to be dismissive, but what the fuck are we

1285
01:04:24.480 --> 01:04:28.039
<v Speaker 2>talking about here? Like, Okay, I'm not arguing that more

1286
01:04:28.119 --> 01:04:30.239
<v Speaker 2>meta narratives are truer than other narrative. First of all,

1287
01:04:30.280 --> 01:04:32.639
<v Speaker 2>I don't agree with that, but also like why why

1288
01:04:32.719 --> 01:04:35.199
<v Speaker 2>does this pertain to us? Like what are we are?

1289
01:04:35.320 --> 01:04:37.360
<v Speaker 2>What do you argue? What is the position that we

1290
01:04:37.800 --> 01:04:41.760
<v Speaker 2>allegedly hold that you say that we hold, like you

1291
01:04:42.079 --> 01:04:44.239
<v Speaker 2>seem to work under some sort of assumption that we're

1292
01:04:44.320 --> 01:04:47.440
<v Speaker 2>operating under. And I'd be curious because maybe you read

1293
01:04:47.480 --> 01:04:50.880
<v Speaker 2>our minds or maybe you've heard Sophia's you know, thesis

1294
01:04:51.000 --> 01:04:53.639
<v Speaker 2>on fou cult and power dynamics that I know that

1295
01:04:53.760 --> 01:04:56.760
<v Speaker 2>she's written about and I talk extensively about on talk

1296
01:04:56.840 --> 01:04:59.400
<v Speaker 2>hethan before, Like what are we talking about here?

1297
01:05:00.039 --> 01:05:03.360
<v Speaker 3>Are you saying that if that the Judeo Christian meda

1298
01:05:03.440 --> 01:05:07.639
<v Speaker 3>natives that I would say probably influenced the collective psyche

1299
01:05:07.679 --> 01:05:10.320
<v Speaker 3>of the West is more true than other meta natives,

1300
01:05:10.400 --> 01:05:11.199
<v Speaker 3>right because oh.

1301
01:05:11.239 --> 01:05:15.119
<v Speaker 2>Okay, all right, there we go. Awesome, awesome, awesome. See well,

1302
01:05:15.239 --> 01:05:18.239
<v Speaker 2>I disagree with the take that some meta narratives are

1303
01:05:18.360 --> 01:05:22.360
<v Speaker 2>truer than other met meta narratives because that would just

1304
01:05:22.519 --> 01:05:26.360
<v Speaker 2>kind of derail everything that postmodernism is ever done. Right,

1305
01:05:26.679 --> 01:05:30.159
<v Speaker 2>Like One of the broader themes of postmodernism is that

1306
01:05:30.280 --> 01:05:33.480
<v Speaker 2>there is no one true meta narrative, right, Like, I

1307
01:05:33.519 --> 01:05:35.639
<v Speaker 2>don't know if you're ever going to see them ever saying, oh, well,

1308
01:05:35.639 --> 01:05:37.880
<v Speaker 2>there's some that are more true than others, Like that's

1309
01:05:37.920 --> 01:05:40.800
<v Speaker 2>definitely not a take that's ever happened, but I think,

1310
01:05:41.639 --> 01:05:45.960
<v Speaker 2>of course. But yeah, but like, why the hell would

1311
01:05:46.000 --> 01:05:50.719
<v Speaker 2>you say that Judeo Christianity is somehow more true than

1312
01:05:50.840 --> 01:05:53.679
<v Speaker 2>other Christianities? Like how does that? How does the meta

1313
01:05:53.760 --> 01:05:56.719
<v Speaker 2>narrative become more true? I would love to hear that part.

1314
01:05:56.960 --> 01:05:57.159
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

1315
01:05:59.119 --> 01:05:59.280
<v Speaker 4>Yeah.

1316
01:05:59.360 --> 01:06:03.400
<v Speaker 3>Postmodern is wrong essentially by rejecting men notatives. And the

1317
01:06:03.480 --> 01:06:06.159
<v Speaker 3>reason for this is because the essential canon of the

1318
01:06:06.280 --> 01:06:11.119
<v Speaker 3>Judeo Christians metaphysical substrate is individual respect for the vinity

1319
01:06:11.159 --> 01:06:13.639
<v Speaker 3>of the individual, the idea that the individual's creating the

1320
01:06:13.719 --> 01:06:16.000
<v Speaker 3>image of God reproduction, which.

1321
01:06:15.880 --> 01:06:18.159
<v Speaker 1>Is sorry, I'm gonna, I'm gonna. I'm gonna interrupt you,

1322
01:06:18.280 --> 01:06:22.440
<v Speaker 1>simply because it is important that you actually answer that question.

1323
01:06:23.079 --> 01:06:25.880
<v Speaker 1>You're saying why postmodernism is wrong. You are asked why

1324
01:06:26.400 --> 01:06:31.400
<v Speaker 1>your view is correct? Why is it true that christ

1325
01:06:31.519 --> 01:06:34.440
<v Speaker 1>Judeo Christian No, you're not start with the question. You're

1326
01:06:34.519 --> 01:06:36.039
<v Speaker 1>asked for you, I am.

1327
01:06:36.480 --> 01:06:39.559
<v Speaker 3>I'm telling telling you the Judeo Christian meta notatives says,

1328
01:06:39.679 --> 01:06:44.559
<v Speaker 3>for example, reproduction is virtue. Well, clearly that's a beneficial cultural.

1329
01:06:44.760 --> 01:06:49.519
<v Speaker 2>Okay, Again, it doesn't always say reproduction is a virtue.

1330
01:06:50.639 --> 01:06:52.559
<v Speaker 2>It's not a thing I would love for you to

1331
01:06:52.639 --> 01:06:55.800
<v Speaker 2>find in the Bible where it says that all people

1332
01:06:55.840 --> 01:06:58.239
<v Speaker 2>on all earth should be able to reproduce. No, it's

1333
01:06:58.320 --> 01:07:01.559
<v Speaker 2>God's chosen people. For first of all, it's a specific race.

1334
01:07:01.599 --> 01:07:03.960
<v Speaker 2>So let's let's start with that first off. But again,

1335
01:07:04.159 --> 01:07:08.039
<v Speaker 2>we're talking about just a lot of things here. Just

1336
01:07:08.119 --> 01:07:12.119
<v Speaker 2>because one religious idea, one ideology says a thing is

1337
01:07:12.239 --> 01:07:15.280
<v Speaker 2>good and you agree with that doesn't mean it makes

1338
01:07:15.360 --> 01:07:18.920
<v Speaker 2>it more like true than other people's ideologies. That's just

1339
01:07:19.079 --> 01:07:22.119
<v Speaker 2>not how ideologies work, right, Like, you can't just say, oh,

1340
01:07:22.239 --> 01:07:26.119
<v Speaker 2>the entire the Western Christianity is actually super dope, you guys,

1341
01:07:26.199 --> 01:07:28.760
<v Speaker 2>because it has some things that I think are awesome. Like,

1342
01:07:28.880 --> 01:07:30.199
<v Speaker 2>that's not a good argument.

1343
01:07:30.360 --> 01:07:33.360
<v Speaker 3>You're not letting me finish, so please, Okay, No.

1344
01:07:33.519 --> 01:07:34.119
<v Speaker 1>We're not good.

1345
01:07:35.039 --> 01:07:36.599
<v Speaker 2>You have to make a good argument.

1346
01:07:36.760 --> 01:07:39.599
<v Speaker 1>So here I think that I might go ahead and

1347
01:07:39.760 --> 01:07:42.239
<v Speaker 1>and moderate. Here we have another collar I'd love to

1348
01:07:42.239 --> 01:07:44.719
<v Speaker 1>get to and we have some other things. But so

1349
01:07:44.800 --> 01:07:47.480
<v Speaker 1>I'm gonna I'm gonna drop here because we've descended into bickering,

1350
01:07:48.119 --> 01:07:50.360
<v Speaker 1>which is not a good use of our time. And

1351
01:07:50.559 --> 01:07:53.840
<v Speaker 1>so I think that really quick, I'm going to mention

1352
01:07:54.000 --> 01:07:56.599
<v Speaker 1>this system that it feels like we're following, which is

1353
01:07:57.119 --> 01:08:01.079
<v Speaker 1>blank is good. Meta narrative says blank is good, and

1354
01:08:02.000 --> 01:08:05.719
<v Speaker 1>so it is correct. That is really tough because you

1355
01:08:05.880 --> 01:08:08.840
<v Speaker 1>have to actually give an example of what is good

1356
01:08:09.320 --> 01:08:14.159
<v Speaker 1>or what is you have to define that somehow. That's

1357
01:08:14.199 --> 01:08:17.239
<v Speaker 1>a really tough thing to define. Globally, it's a really

1358
01:08:17.319 --> 01:08:20.560
<v Speaker 1>tough thing to define at all. I think in this

1359
01:08:20.760 --> 01:08:23.840
<v Speaker 1>conversation we got really lost in jargon at the beginning.

1360
01:08:24.079 --> 01:08:26.119
<v Speaker 1>I would say this is one of those instances where

1361
01:08:26.159 --> 01:08:28.920
<v Speaker 1>maybe it would be beneficial for the caller if you're

1362
01:08:28.960 --> 01:08:33.039
<v Speaker 1>still listening, I'm sorry if you're frustrated, to restate things

1363
01:08:33.359 --> 01:08:36.920
<v Speaker 1>in your own argument as discinctly as possible, because I

1364
01:08:37.039 --> 01:08:39.319
<v Speaker 1>think that would maybe help in making some of these points.

1365
01:08:40.039 --> 01:08:42.439
<v Speaker 1>We're kind of in a strange place here where it

1366
01:08:42.720 --> 01:08:45.680
<v Speaker 1>was frustrating, to be honest, to get to the meat

1367
01:08:45.720 --> 01:08:48.319
<v Speaker 1>of what we were trying to say, and I feel

1368
01:08:48.359 --> 01:08:51.680
<v Speaker 1>like we were trying I think that they were trying

1369
01:08:51.760 --> 01:08:54.720
<v Speaker 1>for the most part, and yet with all of the

1370
01:08:54.800 --> 01:08:57.119
<v Speaker 1>kind of dragon like let's say at fifth grade level, guys.

1371
01:08:57.039 --> 01:08:59.560
<v Speaker 2>You know the Thank God, there's so much wrong with this.

1372
01:08:59.680 --> 01:09:01.520
<v Speaker 2>This is I'm sorry, I'm going to say this, and

1373
01:09:01.600 --> 01:09:04.000
<v Speaker 2>it's going to trigger some people. This is what happens

1374
01:09:04.119 --> 01:09:07.000
<v Speaker 2>when you like people like Jordan Peterson take over your

1375
01:09:07.039 --> 01:09:10.680
<v Speaker 2>thought process in your life. You come to really dumb

1376
01:09:10.760 --> 01:09:13.960
<v Speaker 2>conclusions by really throwing out a lot of words and

1377
01:09:14.079 --> 01:09:16.399
<v Speaker 2>thinking that you're the smartest kid in the room. Okay,

1378
01:09:17.000 --> 01:09:20.039
<v Speaker 2>Judeo Christianity is not a thing. That's a thing that's

1379
01:09:20.119 --> 01:09:24.039
<v Speaker 2>made up. Okay, there's no through line between Judaism and

1380
01:09:24.119 --> 01:09:27.479
<v Speaker 2>Christianity unless what the Christians say it is. Okay, just

1381
01:09:27.520 --> 01:09:30.039
<v Speaker 2>because you think that that's really awesome and it's really

1382
01:09:30.119 --> 01:09:32.159
<v Speaker 2>cool and everybody else should follow the way that I

1383
01:09:32.279 --> 01:09:35.279
<v Speaker 2>do thinks doesn't mean that it's more true than other things.

1384
01:09:35.359 --> 01:09:40.239
<v Speaker 2>Which this is just a really complicated argument for essentially

1385
01:09:40.319 --> 01:09:43.239
<v Speaker 2>what asserts to fascism, right, this idea that look, we

1386
01:09:43.399 --> 01:09:47.399
<v Speaker 2>have to follow these moral codes and these principles because

1387
01:09:47.640 --> 01:09:49.520
<v Speaker 2>not only is do I think this is true, but

1388
01:09:49.640 --> 01:09:53.479
<v Speaker 2>this is actually metaphysically true. This is actually what makes

1389
01:09:53.560 --> 01:09:57.119
<v Speaker 2>up the encompasses our reality, what makes up Western civilization.

1390
01:09:57.439 --> 01:10:00.000
<v Speaker 2>And if we don't follow through with this, this could collapse.

1391
01:10:00.000 --> 01:10:03.000
<v Speaker 2>Apps are civilization, This could this could make us lose

1392
01:10:03.920 --> 01:10:06.960
<v Speaker 2>what we have in our society. Right, So, like, yeah,

1393
01:10:07.000 --> 01:10:09.880
<v Speaker 2>you might view that as extreme, but this is essentially

1394
01:10:09.920 --> 01:10:11.960
<v Speaker 2>what this comes to. This is the reason why folks

1395
01:10:12.000 --> 01:10:13.760
<v Speaker 2>get interested in this stuff. They think that there is

1396
01:10:13.840 --> 01:10:17.000
<v Speaker 2>this idea of the West versus the rest of the world.

1397
01:10:17.119 --> 01:10:18.800
<v Speaker 2>And then then you know, we have to protect the

1398
01:10:18.840 --> 01:10:21.359
<v Speaker 2>West and all of its values, even though they're inconsistent

1399
01:10:21.439 --> 01:10:23.560
<v Speaker 2>and some of them are great, and and it changes

1400
01:10:23.600 --> 01:10:25.079
<v Speaker 2>all the time, and who is a part of the

1401
01:10:25.119 --> 01:10:26.560
<v Speaker 2>West and not part of the West is going to

1402
01:10:26.560 --> 01:10:30.000
<v Speaker 2>be a constant end abate with no end. But but

1403
01:10:30.159 --> 01:10:32.319
<v Speaker 2>this is what happens, Like, this is what this community

1404
01:10:32.359 --> 01:10:34.319
<v Speaker 2>gets to do. And I guarantee you Sofia, we're gonna

1405
01:10:34.319 --> 01:10:37.079
<v Speaker 2>get the Jordan Peterson stands in the comments telling us

1406
01:10:37.119 --> 01:10:39.359
<v Speaker 2>how we're all wrong, we're taking things out of context.

1407
01:10:39.640 --> 01:10:43.079
<v Speaker 2>But I've read Nietzsche, and I've read Sarge, and I've

1408
01:10:43.119 --> 01:10:49.119
<v Speaker 2>read food cult and I disagree with the a lot

1409
01:10:49.159 --> 01:10:50.960
<v Speaker 2>of the premises here. I don't I don't think you

1410
01:10:51.000 --> 01:10:52.159
<v Speaker 2>can get to these kinds of arguments.

1411
01:10:52.199 --> 01:10:54.600
<v Speaker 1>I've read them and forgotten a lot about them. Must

1412
01:10:54.640 --> 01:10:56.680
<v Speaker 1>be real I haven't found and.

1413
01:10:56.680 --> 01:10:59.840
<v Speaker 2>They're hard to understand, so it doesn't really matter. Also, Nietzsche,

1414
01:11:00.000 --> 01:11:04.279
<v Speaker 2>it's like a brilliant book philosophers, and I say the others,

1415
01:11:04.319 --> 01:11:05.319
<v Speaker 2>but you know, I would.

1416
01:11:05.159 --> 01:11:09.239
<v Speaker 1>Say that I find them less useful than attempting to

1417
01:11:09.279 --> 01:11:12.159
<v Speaker 1>work out logic from my own standpoint in the world,

1418
01:11:13.720 --> 01:11:16.119
<v Speaker 1>I think that, yeah, they're hard to understand and they're

1419
01:11:16.159 --> 01:11:18.720
<v Speaker 1>easy to get lost in. And so I realized that

1420
01:11:19.279 --> 01:11:23.199
<v Speaker 1>I oftentimes will start rephrasing something as like, hey, let's

1421
01:11:23.279 --> 01:11:25.800
<v Speaker 1>let's try to put this into something that's a little

1422
01:11:25.800 --> 01:11:30.279
<v Speaker 1>bit easier to digest. It's not because complex ideas aren't important.

1423
01:11:30.319 --> 01:11:32.439
<v Speaker 1>It's that I don't believe that we need to use

1424
01:11:32.479 --> 01:11:35.720
<v Speaker 1>words that are kind of alienating to explain them. And

1425
01:11:36.199 --> 01:11:39.520
<v Speaker 1>if someone doesn't understand an idea well enough to simplify it,

1426
01:11:39.600 --> 01:11:41.319
<v Speaker 1>then I don't know that they understand that idea well

1427
01:11:41.439 --> 01:11:45.640
<v Speaker 1>enough full stop. So yeah, I think that this was

1428
01:11:45.680 --> 01:11:48.399
<v Speaker 1>an interesting call in the sense that I think you're

1429
01:11:48.479 --> 01:11:52.640
<v Speaker 1>right that folks get lost in finding folks who tell

1430
01:11:52.680 --> 01:11:54.560
<v Speaker 1>them what they want to believe. And I kind of

1431
01:11:54.600 --> 01:11:57.399
<v Speaker 1>think that's a bit what's happened. So yeah, I look

1432
01:11:57.439 --> 01:11:59.680
<v Speaker 1>forward to Jordan Peterson stands in the comments because I'm

1433
01:11:59.680 --> 01:12:04.640
<v Speaker 1>not really sure he would like me anyway. So yeah, yeah,

1434
01:12:04.680 --> 01:12:06.439
<v Speaker 1>but he liked the fact that you had a kid.

1435
01:12:06.720 --> 01:12:11.840
<v Speaker 7>Oh good, you you fulfilled your reproduction version, Sophia, congratulations

1436
01:12:12.760 --> 01:12:16.039
<v Speaker 7>is real. You're a pillar of Western society. That's awesome,

1437
01:12:16.159 --> 01:12:16.880
<v Speaker 7>that's really cool.

1438
01:12:17.199 --> 01:12:23.479
<v Speaker 1>I'm going to destroy Western society. Yeah, you know, like

1439
01:12:23.960 --> 01:12:24.279
<v Speaker 1>I get a.

1440
01:12:24.239 --> 01:12:27.000
<v Speaker 2>Little heated with this. I just I really don't like this.

1441
01:12:27.439 --> 01:12:27.479
<v Speaker 4>This.

1442
01:12:28.239 --> 01:12:31.560
<v Speaker 2>I don't like this idea of, first of all, monopolizing

1443
01:12:31.600 --> 01:12:35.520
<v Speaker 2>a conversation with absolute just out of the wall stuff,

1444
01:12:35.600 --> 01:12:37.920
<v Speaker 2>out of pocket, stuff with stuff that neither of us

1445
01:12:37.960 --> 01:12:41.600
<v Speaker 2>have actually argued for or have we're really interested in

1446
01:12:41.720 --> 01:12:43.319
<v Speaker 2>talking about. To be blind.

1447
01:12:44.279 --> 01:12:45.960
<v Speaker 1>That was pretty funny, just the like, well, it's what

1448
01:12:46.039 --> 01:12:48.279
<v Speaker 1>postmodern atheists think. I'm like, I don't think that.

1449
01:12:49.079 --> 01:12:52.560
<v Speaker 2>I don't know, like cool, Well, when you're strong man

1450
01:12:52.640 --> 01:12:56.520
<v Speaker 2>with folks online and uh, you know, and it's a

1451
01:12:56.560 --> 01:12:58.600
<v Speaker 2>lot different when you actually have a conversation with somebody

1452
01:12:58.680 --> 01:13:01.199
<v Speaker 2>and figure out like, oh, what people actually think and

1453
01:13:01.520 --> 01:13:04.640
<v Speaker 2>how they evaluate ideas. I guess I don't know, maybe

1454
01:13:04.960 --> 01:13:08.079
<v Speaker 2>maybe I'm being a little extra, but I can't be

1455
01:13:08.199 --> 01:13:10.199
<v Speaker 2>more extra than what our callers decided to bring to

1456
01:13:10.239 --> 01:13:11.119
<v Speaker 2>the table today, right.

1457
01:13:11.119 --> 01:13:12.880
<v Speaker 1>So no, I like it, and I think that there

1458
01:13:13.039 --> 01:13:14.640
<v Speaker 1>are there's something to be said. And I've said this

1459
01:13:14.680 --> 01:13:16.880
<v Speaker 1>on the show before that like, I know that you

1460
01:13:16.920 --> 01:13:18.600
<v Speaker 1>want to get your point out, but I'm not going

1461
01:13:18.640 --> 01:13:20.920
<v Speaker 1>to let you preach. This is not a sermon, this

1462
01:13:21.079 --> 01:13:24.720
<v Speaker 1>is not just time for you. And so I appreciate

1463
01:13:24.800 --> 01:13:27.800
<v Speaker 1>the call and the perspective, but maybe it's really important

1464
01:13:27.800 --> 01:13:30.800
<v Speaker 1>to hit our points really fast. So I actually got

1465
01:13:30.840 --> 01:13:32.600
<v Speaker 1>a little bit sass here there that I typically do,

1466
01:13:33.359 --> 01:13:35.279
<v Speaker 1>just because I think I was a little frustrated with

1467
01:13:35.359 --> 01:13:37.920
<v Speaker 1>that too. So I don't know, fiery makes it interesting.

1468
01:13:39.119 --> 01:13:43.399
<v Speaker 1>All Right, we should talk real quick about the super

1469
01:13:43.520 --> 01:13:45.680
<v Speaker 1>chats first of all, that are in the chat, which

1470
01:13:45.800 --> 01:13:50.600
<v Speaker 1>include actually the end of Jamie's Blind Blind Limey sorry

1471
01:13:51.880 --> 01:13:55.439
<v Speaker 1>the super chat there and yeah, you want to read

1472
01:13:55.439 --> 01:13:56.119
<v Speaker 1>those out real quick.

1473
01:13:56.479 --> 01:13:56.680
<v Speaker 3>Sure.

1474
01:13:56.800 --> 01:14:00.640
<v Speaker 2>We got one from Miranda Rensberger members six months gave

1475
01:14:00.680 --> 01:14:03.359
<v Speaker 2>five dollars, who said, is Jackie familiar with communicating like

1476
01:14:03.439 --> 01:14:09.159
<v Speaker 2>a normal human? Yeah? I listen, We're no. I mean, look,

1477
01:14:09.399 --> 01:14:11.159
<v Speaker 2>if you're gonna come and talk to us, about your points.

1478
01:14:11.239 --> 01:14:13.119
<v Speaker 2>There's definitely a more succinct way you can, like, like

1479
01:14:13.199 --> 01:14:14.920
<v Speaker 2>absolutely if you want to talk about hey, I think

1480
01:14:14.960 --> 01:14:17.640
<v Speaker 2>the Christian menaitrev is more true than others. Cool, let's

1481
01:14:17.640 --> 01:14:19.399
<v Speaker 2>start with that. Let's just why do we have to

1482
01:14:19.439 --> 01:14:22.399
<v Speaker 2>have this preamble? I don't understand. If you have great

1483
01:14:22.640 --> 01:14:26.279
<v Speaker 2>idea and it involves some philosophy context, there's definitely a

1484
01:14:26.319 --> 01:14:28.279
<v Speaker 2>way you can talk about on this show. There's definitely

1485
01:14:28.279 --> 01:14:30.880
<v Speaker 2>a way where you can make it work. But let's let's,

1486
01:14:31.039 --> 01:14:32.960
<v Speaker 2>you know, let's try to think before we call our

1487
01:14:33.000 --> 01:14:35.920
<v Speaker 2>hosts and and do that for next time. So thanks

1488
01:14:35.960 --> 01:14:39.479
<v Speaker 2>for that. And then also we have our top five patrons.

1489
01:14:40.119 --> 01:14:42.319
<v Speaker 2>Do you want me to read those two SOPHI? Yeah,

1490
01:14:42.319 --> 01:14:44.439
<v Speaker 2>I got it right here, Sure, go for it? All right,

1491
01:14:44.479 --> 01:14:50.039
<v Speaker 2>we got top five patrons this week is oops all singularity, Dingleberry, Jackson,

1492
01:14:50.279 --> 01:14:53.119
<v Speaker 2>ca Levy, Helvetti left in the leaves, Neil the six

1493
01:14:53.239 --> 01:14:57.159
<v Speaker 2>O four atheists, and honorable mention goes to Brian Zook.

1494
01:14:57.319 --> 01:14:59.600
<v Speaker 2>Thank you so much to our top five patrons. And

1495
01:14:59.640 --> 01:15:01.640
<v Speaker 2>if you want be a patron on the Patreon you

1496
01:15:01.720 --> 01:15:05.600
<v Speaker 2>can do that in the description anyway you can go.

1497
01:15:06.000 --> 01:15:06.840
<v Speaker 2>Gready to keep going.

1498
01:15:08.479 --> 01:15:10.479
<v Speaker 1>Okay, so give me one second, because I am going

1499
01:15:10.560 --> 01:15:13.239
<v Speaker 1>to point out where they can go to give on

1500
01:15:13.399 --> 01:15:16.119
<v Speaker 1>Patreon here. If you want to have your name read

1501
01:15:16.199 --> 01:15:19.560
<v Speaker 1>on the air, then please consider supporting us at our patreon,

1502
01:15:19.640 --> 01:15:23.920
<v Speaker 1>which is tiny dot cc slash patreon. T that's tiny

1503
01:15:23.960 --> 01:15:29.600
<v Speaker 1>dot cc slash patreon th like talk ethen. Yeah. On

1504
01:15:29.720 --> 01:15:32.079
<v Speaker 1>that note, we started recording the talk e than discord

1505
01:15:32.199 --> 01:15:35.840
<v Speaker 1>after show for all levels of paid patrons. So if

1506
01:15:35.880 --> 01:15:38.279
<v Speaker 1>you want more content and more sort of an informal

1507
01:15:38.399 --> 01:15:40.520
<v Speaker 1>look at the hosts. And this isn't just the host

1508
01:15:40.560 --> 01:15:43.720
<v Speaker 1>who've just posted. Sometimes other hosts come on there and

1509
01:15:43.880 --> 01:15:46.760
<v Speaker 1>just have a much more casual conversation. It won't necessarily

1510
01:15:46.880 --> 01:15:50.000
<v Speaker 1>be like show themed. It's really fun actually, So you

1511
01:15:50.079 --> 01:15:53.279
<v Speaker 1>can access that if you join our patreon. There's a

1512
01:15:53.359 --> 01:15:55.720
<v Speaker 1>couple other super chats a little bit further up. First,

1513
01:15:55.800 --> 01:15:59.159
<v Speaker 1>I want to Blindlimy the last thing that you said here,

1514
01:15:59.399 --> 01:16:02.800
<v Speaker 1>aside for asking God to make him a wing commander

1515
01:16:02.880 --> 01:16:05.720
<v Speaker 1>in the Arif so you can fly the Eurofighter, the

1516
01:16:05.840 --> 01:16:08.800
<v Speaker 1>last wish while we're asking for impossible things was a

1517
01:16:08.880 --> 01:16:12.680
<v Speaker 1>reasonably priced one bedroom in Austin. I would say keep dreaming, Bud,

1518
01:16:15.960 --> 01:16:19.159
<v Speaker 1>and then we have a super chat from Nash for

1519
01:16:19.359 --> 01:16:22.119
<v Speaker 1>five dollars five dollars a Canadian. I don't know why

1520
01:16:22.159 --> 01:16:24.600
<v Speaker 1>that matters. I feel the need to point it out though, Yeah, Canada.

1521
01:16:25.640 --> 01:16:27.720
<v Speaker 1>But Jack Frost is one of my favorite myths. It

1522
01:16:27.760 --> 01:16:30.119
<v Speaker 1>seems so interesting to me that people would attribute something

1523
01:16:30.239 --> 01:16:34.640
<v Speaker 1>so small to a whole supernatural being. I completely agree.

1524
01:16:34.760 --> 01:16:38.439
<v Speaker 1>I love the Jack Frost myth. And there's a book

1525
01:16:38.520 --> 01:16:40.880
<v Speaker 1>that I greatly enjoyed reading called The Year one thousand,

1526
01:16:41.199 --> 01:16:43.960
<v Speaker 1>and it looks at a medieval calendar for each month

1527
01:16:44.119 --> 01:16:46.960
<v Speaker 1>and uses that illustration to talk about what life was

1528
01:16:47.039 --> 01:16:49.800
<v Speaker 1>like in that month. And that's they talk about Jack

1529
01:16:49.880 --> 01:16:51.800
<v Speaker 1>Frost and the end of the harvest and all of

1530
01:16:51.880 --> 01:16:54.520
<v Speaker 1>these different rituals and so specifically Britain in the year

1531
01:16:54.560 --> 01:16:57.960
<v Speaker 1>one thousand. So if you're interested in Jack Frost and

1532
01:16:58.039 --> 01:17:00.199
<v Speaker 1>some of these interesting ideas that folks had back in

1533
01:17:00.239 --> 01:17:02.359
<v Speaker 1>the day when we understood less science, that would be

1534
01:17:02.399 --> 01:17:08.000
<v Speaker 1>when you might enjoy all right, so the sweet Okay,

1535
01:17:08.159 --> 01:17:09.640
<v Speaker 1>those are all the super chats. Be sure you can

1536
01:17:09.720 --> 01:17:13.439
<v Speaker 1>totally send us more super chats in the comments. All right,

1537
01:17:13.680 --> 01:17:18.039
<v Speaker 1>So we have one more collar that we're going to take,

1538
01:17:18.319 --> 01:17:20.880
<v Speaker 1>and I am definitely curious about this we have had

1539
01:17:20.920 --> 01:17:24.079
<v Speaker 1>a theme today. The theme has been like philosophy basically

1540
01:17:24.520 --> 01:17:27.000
<v Speaker 1>how our brains work, how we respond to things because

1541
01:17:27.039 --> 01:17:30.680
<v Speaker 1>our brains work that way. So this is Rogue Show.

1542
01:17:30.920 --> 01:17:34.840
<v Speaker 1>He him from South Carolina and says is it necessary

1543
01:17:35.000 --> 01:17:38.319
<v Speaker 1>or is asking is it necessary for atheists to study philosophy?

1544
01:17:38.640 --> 01:17:42.000
<v Speaker 1>All right, so we're going to bring in hey rogue show.

1545
01:17:42.399 --> 01:17:45.640
<v Speaker 1>All right, you're asking tell us about this? Is it

1546
01:17:45.760 --> 01:17:47.800
<v Speaker 1>necessary for atheists to study philosophy?

1547
01:17:48.199 --> 01:17:49.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah? But there's one thing.

1548
01:17:50.000 --> 01:17:52.880
<v Speaker 6>There's one thing that's kind of nagging. It's for those

1549
01:17:53.199 --> 01:17:56.399
<v Speaker 6>for those who want to know post modernism is actually

1550
01:17:56.560 --> 01:18:00.600
<v Speaker 6>active perspective that takes a lot of perspective. It's pretty

1551
01:18:00.680 --> 01:18:03.760
<v Speaker 6>much we have to consider a lot of perspectives here

1552
01:18:04.119 --> 01:18:07.000
<v Speaker 6>or not. We can't just operate on one. And it

1553
01:18:07.079 --> 01:18:09.600
<v Speaker 6>focuses on science and a lot of it focuses on

1554
01:18:09.680 --> 01:18:13.560
<v Speaker 6>science and critical thinking, which sees U don't, which sease.

1555
01:18:13.399 --> 01:18:13.840
<v Speaker 5>Don't, Mike.

1556
01:18:14.319 --> 01:18:17.479
<v Speaker 3>But my question, yeah, my question is like is it

1557
01:18:17.760 --> 01:18:18.960
<v Speaker 3>is it not necessary?

1558
01:18:19.199 --> 01:18:19.760
<v Speaker 4>Is it really?

1559
01:18:19.920 --> 01:18:24.520
<v Speaker 6>Is it necessary to study philosophy as an atheist or

1560
01:18:24.840 --> 01:18:27.039
<v Speaker 6>is it like just a side gig you can do?

1561
01:18:27.520 --> 01:18:29.840
<v Speaker 2>Why is it necessary? Live your best life? Who cares?

1562
01:18:30.279 --> 01:18:32.479
<v Speaker 2>Who would you want. I don't think. I don't think

1563
01:18:32.520 --> 01:18:34.640
<v Speaker 2>being an atheist. Oh wait, you have to. You have

1564
01:18:34.720 --> 01:18:36.960
<v Speaker 2>to get your credits in Sorry, you know you can't

1565
01:18:37.000 --> 01:18:39.960
<v Speaker 2>have your bachelor's and atheism without getting your philosophy credit

1566
01:18:40.239 --> 01:18:42.319
<v Speaker 2>Rogue show. Actually, so we gotta we got to revoke

1567
01:18:42.399 --> 01:18:43.239
<v Speaker 2>your atheist degree.

1568
01:18:43.560 --> 01:18:43.680
<v Speaker 5>Right.

1569
01:18:43.920 --> 01:18:45.319
<v Speaker 2>I don't think it's like that. I think it's more

1570
01:18:45.479 --> 01:18:47.199
<v Speaker 2>just like, yeah, you can look at it if you

1571
01:18:47.239 --> 01:18:50.000
<v Speaker 2>want to. Now, granted, there is a benefit to studying

1572
01:18:50.199 --> 01:18:53.520
<v Speaker 2>philosophy in a formal context versus watching a fifteen minute

1573
01:18:53.560 --> 01:18:57.800
<v Speaker 2>YouTube video that summarizes some guy's books. Right, So you're

1574
01:18:57.800 --> 01:19:00.560
<v Speaker 2>going to get a deeper understanding if you read the word. Obviously,

1575
01:19:00.600 --> 01:19:04.439
<v Speaker 2>I can't speak any of the original language that folks

1576
01:19:04.479 --> 01:19:08.920
<v Speaker 2>like nietzschee right, writing in German. And then most postmodern

1577
01:19:08.920 --> 01:19:11.199
<v Speaker 2>philosophers are French, so a lot of them are going

1578
01:19:11.239 --> 01:19:13.359
<v Speaker 2>to be writing in French. Right, So like there's I

1579
01:19:13.560 --> 01:19:15.399
<v Speaker 2>don't have that benefit. And I've heard that that's like

1580
01:19:15.479 --> 01:19:17.399
<v Speaker 2>the best way to read a lot of works. But

1581
01:19:18.239 --> 01:19:20.640
<v Speaker 2>I think it's great if you can if you want

1582
01:19:20.640 --> 01:19:23.399
<v Speaker 2>to speak confidently about a particular subject. Sure, But the

1583
01:19:23.439 --> 01:19:26.199
<v Speaker 2>thing is, philosophy kind of by design is always going

1584
01:19:26.279 --> 01:19:28.279
<v Speaker 2>to be endless. I mean, I guess that's true with

1585
01:19:28.359 --> 01:19:30.239
<v Speaker 2>any kind of science, but like, if you're going to

1586
01:19:30.279 --> 01:19:33.279
<v Speaker 2>speak on any sort of like real knowledge or authority,

1587
01:19:33.399 --> 01:19:35.920
<v Speaker 2>it helps to actually look at the original source material,

1588
01:19:36.439 --> 01:19:38.840
<v Speaker 2>especially if you're going to be engaging with folks online,

1589
01:19:38.880 --> 01:19:41.159
<v Speaker 2>which is like what a lot of us tend to do. Right, Like,

1590
01:19:41.239 --> 01:19:43.000
<v Speaker 2>you're going to be on the back foot if people

1591
01:19:43.039 --> 01:19:45.680
<v Speaker 2>are going to be talking about religious phenomenology and you're

1592
01:19:45.720 --> 01:19:48.640
<v Speaker 2>not familiar with some of the basic texts that like

1593
01:19:48.880 --> 01:19:52.159
<v Speaker 2>go into that, right, Because philosophy, unlike a lot of

1594
01:19:52.239 --> 01:19:56.319
<v Speaker 2>other fields of study, are really context dependent on the

1595
01:19:56.399 --> 01:19:58.520
<v Speaker 2>sources that come before it. There's a really you have

1596
01:19:58.640 --> 01:20:02.000
<v Speaker 2>to really no philosophy in the order in which things

1597
01:20:02.039 --> 01:20:04.600
<v Speaker 2>were kind of written in order for things to make sense.

1598
01:20:04.760 --> 01:20:07.600
<v Speaker 2>Like if you just start with postmodernism, you're going to

1599
01:20:07.640 --> 01:20:10.920
<v Speaker 2>be really confused if you haven't read modernist texts. And

1600
01:20:10.960 --> 01:20:12.520
<v Speaker 2>then you're going to be really confused if you haven't

1601
01:20:12.560 --> 01:20:14.520
<v Speaker 2>read you know, the Greeks, right, and then you know,

1602
01:20:14.600 --> 01:20:17.600
<v Speaker 2>there's like a lot of stuff that gets referenced each time.

1603
01:20:17.800 --> 01:20:20.920
<v Speaker 2>So in short, yeah, if you want to go for it,

1604
01:20:21.000 --> 01:20:23.600
<v Speaker 2>but like I'm not going to be the atheist police

1605
01:20:23.640 --> 01:20:27.680
<v Speaker 2>and say you haven't read your philosophy. No, no, that's

1606
01:20:27.800 --> 01:20:30.680
<v Speaker 2>bad news. Yeah, just do what you want. I don't care.

1607
01:20:31.159 --> 01:20:32.560
<v Speaker 2>Live your best life rogue show.

1608
01:20:33.359 --> 01:20:36.159
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. I think that. My take is that no matter

1609
01:20:36.279 --> 01:20:37.960
<v Speaker 1>what it is you're looking at, there's always going to

1610
01:20:38.000 --> 01:20:40.760
<v Speaker 1>be somebody who disagrees with you and knows more about

1611
01:20:40.760 --> 01:20:42.359
<v Speaker 1>it than you do. So there's never going to be

1612
01:20:42.520 --> 01:20:44.840
<v Speaker 1>like this perfect amount you can know about any subject

1613
01:20:44.880 --> 01:20:47.359
<v Speaker 1>that will mean that you're the most like bulletproof or

1614
01:20:47.399 --> 01:20:51.119
<v Speaker 1>certified atheists or whatever it would be. Clearly I am

1615
01:20:51.279 --> 01:20:53.920
<v Speaker 1>less well versed in philosophy than Dan Is, Like that's

1616
01:20:54.359 --> 01:20:58.039
<v Speaker 1>just evidently true, and that's fine. I think that there

1617
01:20:58.079 --> 01:21:00.399
<v Speaker 1>can also be a lot of space in it isscussion

1618
01:21:01.920 --> 01:21:03.880
<v Speaker 1>to ask what someone means by what they're saying. If

1619
01:21:03.920 --> 01:21:06.239
<v Speaker 1>they're using a term I don't know, then I'm happy

1620
01:21:06.319 --> 01:21:07.960
<v Speaker 1>to say, like, hey, I'm not familiar with that term,

1621
01:21:08.039 --> 01:21:10.680
<v Speaker 1>because then I get to know how they're understanding it

1622
01:21:10.880 --> 01:21:13.840
<v Speaker 1>and what standpoint they're actually arguing from, and I can

1623
01:21:14.159 --> 01:21:18.079
<v Speaker 1>maybe have that conversation a little bit more successfully. So

1624
01:21:18.359 --> 01:21:20.479
<v Speaker 1>I've also feel like I feel like there's value in

1625
01:21:20.800 --> 01:21:24.479
<v Speaker 1>focusing on critical reasoning, like regardless of what topic you're

1626
01:21:24.520 --> 01:21:28.119
<v Speaker 1>looking at, and for me, philosophy is it's cool to

1627
01:21:28.119 --> 01:21:30.960
<v Speaker 1>get into different philosophers, and critical reasoning is a fundamental

1628
01:21:31.039 --> 01:21:34.039
<v Speaker 1>part of it. But being able to be critical on

1629
01:21:34.119 --> 01:21:36.000
<v Speaker 1>the fly and just to think through, like what are

1630
01:21:36.000 --> 01:21:37.960
<v Speaker 1>the questions I have about this? Like what can we

1631
01:21:38.039 --> 01:21:42.600
<v Speaker 1>explore further? I found a lot of help with a

1632
01:21:42.640 --> 01:21:44.439
<v Speaker 1>lot of help from that, I guess I found that

1633
01:21:44.560 --> 01:21:47.279
<v Speaker 1>extremely useful. I guess I'm not always the best with words,

1634
01:21:47.640 --> 01:21:50.640
<v Speaker 1>but I feel like being curious and asking questions as

1635
01:21:50.680 --> 01:21:55.359
<v Speaker 1>you're having conversations is totally okay. I do think that

1636
01:21:55.479 --> 01:21:58.800
<v Speaker 1>there will be experiences you have with atheists and theists.

1637
01:22:00.239 --> 01:22:02.359
<v Speaker 1>They're going to have read a philosopher and they're going

1638
01:22:02.439 --> 01:22:04.520
<v Speaker 1>to do a lot of Dickson in with it, like sorry,

1639
01:22:04.600 --> 01:22:07.159
<v Speaker 1>that's rather a cross term, and people without Dick's also.

1640
01:22:07.079 --> 01:22:08.560
<v Speaker 2>Do that it's an appropriate term.

1641
01:22:08.920 --> 01:22:13.640
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, there isn't quite another term that I'm really sure

1642
01:22:13.720 --> 01:22:16.520
<v Speaker 1>gives this this ideal. But I think there are folks

1643
01:22:16.560 --> 01:22:18.600
<v Speaker 1>who will feel like they're smarter than you because of that,

1644
01:22:18.760 --> 01:22:20.640
<v Speaker 1>and who will walk away and feel like, well, they

1645
01:22:20.680 --> 01:22:23.159
<v Speaker 1>didn't even know blink. But okay, I'm not really trying

1646
01:22:23.159 --> 01:22:24.439
<v Speaker 1>to impress those folks anyway.

1647
01:22:24.720 --> 01:22:27.520
<v Speaker 2>You know, it's also appropriate, actually, Sophia just to add

1648
01:22:27.600 --> 01:22:31.119
<v Speaker 2>on to that, because philosophy folks tend to be chauvinistic.

1649
01:22:31.239 --> 01:22:35.079
<v Speaker 2>There is a tendency towards this idea of this sort

1650
01:22:35.119 --> 01:22:39.600
<v Speaker 2>of rational objectivity that some people speak to. You know,

1651
01:22:39.880 --> 01:22:43.439
<v Speaker 2>look at any philosopher ever and you'll see that there's

1652
01:22:43.479 --> 01:22:46.600
<v Speaker 2>some of the most problematic people that have ever lit

1653
01:22:46.680 --> 01:22:49.560
<v Speaker 2>like like like like Heidegger is like kind of a Nazi,

1654
01:22:49.760 --> 01:22:52.920
<v Speaker 2>Like that's like kind of been spoken about, you know,

1655
01:22:53.039 --> 01:22:56.880
<v Speaker 2>like there's all kinds of people who have absolutely written

1656
01:22:57.159 --> 01:22:59.359
<v Speaker 2>amazing stuff that have contributed to the literature, and they

1657
01:22:59.399 --> 01:23:02.319
<v Speaker 2>themselves are not the most rational people when it comes

1658
01:23:02.319 --> 01:23:04.640
<v Speaker 2>to other issues. So the point is, if you're doing

1659
01:23:04.680 --> 01:23:07.600
<v Speaker 2>it to better yourself, that's great. Well it make you

1660
01:23:07.680 --> 01:23:11.079
<v Speaker 2>think more critically sometimes, Sure, it's not the be all

1661
01:23:11.239 --> 01:23:14.239
<v Speaker 2>end all. Please do not treat one specific discipline as, oh,

1662
01:23:14.319 --> 01:23:16.880
<v Speaker 2>this is going to solve everything for me and make

1663
01:23:16.960 --> 01:23:19.079
<v Speaker 2>me super smart and be able to debate people and

1664
01:23:19.199 --> 01:23:22.279
<v Speaker 2>take them down and be the winner. Because that's what

1665
01:23:22.399 --> 01:23:24.520
<v Speaker 2>a lot of people take when it comes to philosophy.

1666
01:23:24.720 --> 01:23:28.520
<v Speaker 2>That's kind of the approach. And yeah, you know it's

1667
01:23:28.680 --> 01:23:29.159
<v Speaker 2>pretty bad.

1668
01:23:29.520 --> 01:23:32.239
<v Speaker 1>I think that that can happen too. In I feel

1669
01:23:32.279 --> 01:23:35.560
<v Speaker 1>like that's happened with psychology. Let's think about Jordan Peterson,

1670
01:23:35.680 --> 01:23:38.359
<v Speaker 1>Like that definitely comes up. I think that can happen

1671
01:23:38.399 --> 01:23:40.720
<v Speaker 1>with economics, Like I've seen a lot of folks who

1672
01:23:41.399 --> 01:23:44.560
<v Speaker 1>are even hobbyist economics act like this is the field

1673
01:23:44.600 --> 01:23:46.920
<v Speaker 1>that really explains humans. This is really what gets us,

1674
01:23:47.079 --> 01:23:48.840
<v Speaker 1>you know, all of the answers and anything that you

1675
01:23:48.960 --> 01:23:51.239
<v Speaker 1>come to me with if you don't understand my jargon

1676
01:23:51.479 --> 01:23:57.279
<v Speaker 1>is wrong, So people can be kind of crappy regardless. Yeah,

1677
01:23:57.359 --> 01:24:00.079
<v Speaker 1>I would also just throw out that there are there

1678
01:24:00.079 --> 01:24:03.159
<v Speaker 1>are different ways to engage with philosophy in the sense

1679
01:24:03.239 --> 01:24:05.720
<v Speaker 1>of like how people actually live and how we apply

1680
01:24:06.079 --> 01:24:08.960
<v Speaker 1>ideas to how we live. I'm a big, big advocate

1681
01:24:09.000 --> 01:24:12.600
<v Speaker 1>for reading fiction, particularly from different time periods and different cultures.

1682
01:24:13.000 --> 01:24:16.960
<v Speaker 1>I think that being able to see belief supplied in

1683
01:24:17.159 --> 01:24:20.039
<v Speaker 1>fiction is incredibly valuable. I think that that's a great

1684
01:24:20.039 --> 01:24:23.079
<v Speaker 1>way to understand other people. Even if it doesn't necessarily

1685
01:24:23.199 --> 01:24:26.000
<v Speaker 1>help you, like win a debate, it helps you understand

1686
01:24:26.319 --> 01:24:27.960
<v Speaker 1>how other people live and why they live that way.

1687
01:24:28.159 --> 01:24:31.319
<v Speaker 1>So I would throw out there that like literature, fiction

1688
01:24:31.720 --> 01:24:34.520
<v Speaker 1>also has a place and just human understanding, even though

1689
01:24:34.560 --> 01:24:37.159
<v Speaker 1>it does not aim toward being objective. Does all that

1690
01:24:37.239 --> 01:24:38.920
<v Speaker 1>make sense? We just threw a ton of a ton

1691
01:24:38.960 --> 01:24:40.880
<v Speaker 1>of words at you. We've both had some feelings on

1692
01:24:40.960 --> 01:24:41.279
<v Speaker 1>that one.

1693
01:24:41.560 --> 01:24:43.039
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, it makes sense.

1694
01:24:43.720 --> 01:24:44.319
<v Speaker 6>I guess I can.

1695
01:24:44.720 --> 01:24:46.079
<v Speaker 3>Okay, if I leave you with two.

1696
01:24:46.000 --> 01:24:48.600
<v Speaker 2>Things, sure you leave us with one and a half things,

1697
01:24:49.560 --> 01:24:50.239
<v Speaker 2>just kidding, you can.

1698
01:24:50.119 --> 01:24:54.840
<v Speaker 6>Do too, Okay, I will, I will, I'll rearrange the numbers.

1699
01:24:55.840 --> 01:24:58.560
<v Speaker 3>So the first the first thing is that the reason

1700
01:24:58.760 --> 01:24:59.359
<v Speaker 3>the reason why.

1701
01:24:59.479 --> 01:25:03.039
<v Speaker 6>I sort of this question ask this question, it's because

1702
01:25:03.159 --> 01:25:08.319
<v Speaker 6>I personally find philosophical conversations annoying, and it's like, do

1703
01:25:08.479 --> 01:25:11.880
<v Speaker 6>you really need to do you really need to study this?

1704
01:25:12.239 --> 01:25:17.079
<v Speaker 6>Like because it just feels like the art of talking

1705
01:25:17.159 --> 01:25:18.159
<v Speaker 6>past each other a.

1706
01:25:18.199 --> 01:25:19.520
<v Speaker 2>Lot sometimes sometimes.

1707
01:25:19.920 --> 01:25:23.239
<v Speaker 6>And second and secondly one and a half one and

1708
01:25:23.279 --> 01:25:29.920
<v Speaker 6>a half lead. What what woke moralists don't understand about

1709
01:25:30.039 --> 01:25:34.760
<v Speaker 6>post modernism is that it's flawed due to a metaphorical

1710
01:25:34.800 --> 01:25:35.680
<v Speaker 6>such creak.

1711
01:25:35.520 --> 01:25:37.880
<v Speaker 2>That's pretty good, that's a pretty good Jordan Peterson right there.

1712
01:25:38.479 --> 01:25:43.199
<v Speaker 1>I was like, Jordan Peterson, Kermit the Frog, that those

1713
01:25:43.239 --> 01:25:46.079
<v Speaker 1>were the two. But I love idea of Kermit the

1714
01:25:46.119 --> 01:25:49.279
<v Speaker 1>Frog lecturing about what moreless got to say that I

1715
01:25:49.359 --> 01:25:51.800
<v Speaker 1>went there. No, thank you, So I'm gonna go ahead

1716
01:25:51.880 --> 01:25:53.760
<v Speaker 1>and the club thank you for leaving us with those

1717
01:25:53.760 --> 01:25:57.479
<v Speaker 1>two things, and awesome, thank you for calling. Definitely call back.

1718
01:25:57.560 --> 01:26:00.800
<v Speaker 1>We really liked that question. Yeah, yeah, sorry when it

1719
01:26:00.920 --> 01:26:03.680
<v Speaker 1>happens well to answer that question.

1720
01:26:04.039 --> 01:26:06.199
<v Speaker 2>Uh, I know, I think a lot of philosophy is

1721
01:26:06.239 --> 01:26:08.920
<v Speaker 2>useless to most people. I'm not afraid of saying that.

1722
01:26:09.079 --> 01:26:11.439
<v Speaker 2>I think I think there's yeah, it's it's it's immensely

1723
01:26:11.840 --> 01:26:15.319
<v Speaker 2>interesting for some people, and for some people it's just whatever,

1724
01:26:15.560 --> 01:26:20.800
<v Speaker 2>doesn't matter. What what does uh, you know, religious phenomenology

1725
01:26:21.319 --> 01:26:24.439
<v Speaker 2>mean to a fisherman in Taiwan. I don't know. It

1726
01:26:24.520 --> 01:26:27.279
<v Speaker 2>could mean some things. It could be some very useful stuff.

1727
01:26:27.359 --> 01:26:29.319
<v Speaker 2>It's not going to help them fish any better, right,

1728
01:26:29.439 --> 01:26:32.680
<v Speaker 2>Like it's for a lot of people. Granted, maybe maybe

1729
01:26:32.720 --> 01:26:35.399
<v Speaker 2>I'm speaking to the mode of capitalism there, right and saying, oh,

1730
01:26:35.479 --> 01:26:37.359
<v Speaker 2>it's not useful for you making money, And that's not

1731
01:26:37.439 --> 01:26:39.079
<v Speaker 2>what I'm trying to say. What I'm trying to say

1732
01:26:39.199 --> 01:26:41.600
<v Speaker 2>is that, like you know, when we're talking about metaphorical

1733
01:26:41.880 --> 01:26:44.479
<v Speaker 2>or metaphysical substrates, it just doesn't hit with a lot

1734
01:26:44.520 --> 01:26:47.720
<v Speaker 2>of people because it's it's it's not unless you're in

1735
01:26:47.840 --> 01:26:51.039
<v Speaker 2>the academy and you're producing works. It's it's not gonna

1736
01:26:51.039 --> 01:26:52.840
<v Speaker 2>do much for you. So yeah, I don't think you

1737
01:26:52.920 --> 01:26:55.760
<v Speaker 2>have to have an understanding of philosophy to be a

1738
01:26:55.800 --> 01:26:58.399
<v Speaker 2>smart person or a competent person, or to think correctly.

1739
01:26:59.039 --> 01:27:01.680
<v Speaker 2>I only think it's useful for talking about the subjects

1740
01:27:01.720 --> 01:27:04.880
<v Speaker 2>that philosophy tends to talk about, which which could be

1741
01:27:04.920 --> 01:27:05.520
<v Speaker 2>a lot of things.

1742
01:27:05.920 --> 01:27:08.760
<v Speaker 1>It's like when you play a really complex board game,

1743
01:27:09.000 --> 01:27:13.000
<v Speaker 1>which I myself have learned to appreciate because many people

1744
01:27:13.079 --> 01:27:16.640
<v Speaker 1>I love really like complex table top board games. Being

1745
01:27:16.680 --> 01:27:18.279
<v Speaker 1>good at that game just means you're good at that game.

1746
01:27:18.479 --> 01:27:20.239
<v Speaker 1>Being good at chess doesn't mean you're actually going to

1747
01:27:20.279 --> 01:27:22.359
<v Speaker 1>be good at war. Like sometimes we like to make

1748
01:27:22.439 --> 01:27:24.560
<v Speaker 1>these things seem like a bigger deal than they are.

1749
01:27:25.520 --> 01:27:27.319
<v Speaker 1>For me, it took me a long time to actually

1750
01:27:27.319 --> 01:27:29.399
<v Speaker 1>feel confident in saying I am smart and I don't

1751
01:27:29.479 --> 01:27:33.640
<v Speaker 1>understand that and that's acceptable, and okay, I do think

1752
01:27:33.680 --> 01:27:35.600
<v Speaker 1>I'm a little self conscious of that as a woman,

1753
01:27:35.880 --> 01:27:37.760
<v Speaker 1>to be honest, because I feel the need to almost

1754
01:27:37.880 --> 01:27:39.279
<v Speaker 1>be like, well, I have to be the smartest, but

1755
01:27:40.439 --> 01:27:44.239
<v Speaker 1>no whatever, fuck them. So yeah, I agree, And I

1756
01:27:44.399 --> 01:27:46.760
<v Speaker 1>just feel like trust yourself and trust your logic and

1757
01:27:46.800 --> 01:27:50.119
<v Speaker 1>your arguments and things that you can logically defend are true.

1758
01:27:51.000 --> 01:27:55.079
<v Speaker 1>Do you know, yes, one hundred percent. That's my mission

1759
01:27:55.079 --> 01:27:56.880
<v Speaker 1>and make everyone say they don't be and make everyone

1760
01:27:56.920 --> 01:28:00.680
<v Speaker 1>okay with saying they don't know. I read that last

1761
01:28:00.720 --> 01:28:01.520
<v Speaker 1>super chap there.

1762
01:28:01.680 --> 01:28:04.199
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, sure, I'll do that, and we have the

1763
01:28:04.199 --> 01:28:07.840
<v Speaker 2>super chat from Constellation Pasis, who gave twenty dollars nineteen

1764
01:28:07.920 --> 01:28:09.720
<v Speaker 2>ninety nine. Thanks for that and said, thank you. What's

1765
01:28:09.760 --> 01:28:12.720
<v Speaker 2>the most infuriating subject you have to deal with?

1766
01:28:14.760 --> 01:28:15.479
<v Speaker 1>That's a good question.

1767
01:28:15.760 --> 01:28:18.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I don't know what's the most for you, Sophia.

1768
01:28:19.439 --> 01:28:24.079
<v Speaker 1>Well, it's interesting because I was thinking about, like, what

1769
01:28:24.279 --> 01:28:26.720
<v Speaker 1>actually makes me the angriest, and it's not. It was

1770
01:28:26.880 --> 01:28:29.039
<v Speaker 1>more from when I was in the church actually than

1771
01:28:29.119 --> 01:28:32.279
<v Speaker 1>something that I engage with as much now. If another

1772
01:28:32.359 --> 01:28:34.800
<v Speaker 1>Christian ever looks at me and smiles and says, well,

1773
01:28:34.840 --> 01:28:36.800
<v Speaker 1>no one is righteous, no no one, I'm going to

1774
01:28:36.880 --> 01:28:39.600
<v Speaker 1>fucking drown them. Like I have heard people say that

1775
01:28:39.920 --> 01:28:44.880
<v Speaker 1>about child molesters, about like folks who are just obnoxious

1776
01:28:45.000 --> 01:28:47.199
<v Speaker 1>about like it's just a deflection. I've never heard it

1777
01:28:47.640 --> 01:28:50.079
<v Speaker 1>used in a way that isn't just to say, well,

1778
01:28:50.439 --> 01:28:54.199
<v Speaker 1>you're bad too, essentially, and I'm like, if that's where

1779
01:28:54.199 --> 01:28:57.279
<v Speaker 1>your faith gets you, then I have no interest in

1780
01:28:57.560 --> 01:29:00.880
<v Speaker 1>your faith or your interpretation of it. So I think,

1781
01:29:00.960 --> 01:29:02.880
<v Speaker 1>obviously that gets me kind of riled up, and that's

1782
01:29:03.600 --> 01:29:05.520
<v Speaker 1>I feel like I deal with that attitude more now

1783
01:29:05.600 --> 01:29:09.119
<v Speaker 1>than the actual phrasing because now I'm out of the church.

1784
01:29:09.760 --> 01:29:13.279
<v Speaker 1>But it was it was smirkingly used. I don't know

1785
01:29:13.319 --> 01:29:17.640
<v Speaker 1>if that's a word smugly maybe used so often in

1786
01:29:18.560 --> 01:29:22.239
<v Speaker 1>the church, and it was, it's disgusting. It's a coverall

1787
01:29:22.479 --> 01:29:26.119
<v Speaker 1>for being disgusting. So anyway, that at least makes me

1788
01:29:26.199 --> 01:29:28.640
<v Speaker 1>the maddest, not to that that's good.

1789
01:29:28.720 --> 01:29:31.560
<v Speaker 2>That's good stuff, Sophia, I don't. I do like into

1790
01:29:31.880 --> 01:29:37.399
<v Speaker 2>I dislike intellectual posturing. In case that wasn't clear already,

1791
01:29:37.439 --> 01:29:39.159
<v Speaker 2>I think I think that's a pet feeve of mine.

1792
01:29:40.359 --> 01:29:43.920
<v Speaker 2>I don't care whether you're the most you think you're

1793
01:29:44.039 --> 01:29:48.119
<v Speaker 2>the smartest guy in the room. It doesn't matter. All

1794
01:29:48.159 --> 01:29:50.279
<v Speaker 2>that matters, is what we're talking about. In that context.

1795
01:29:50.319 --> 01:29:52.239
<v Speaker 2>I've met so many people in my life who are

1796
01:29:52.479 --> 01:29:54.399
<v Speaker 2>exactly as you describe as if you they're good at

1797
01:29:54.520 --> 01:29:57.279
<v Speaker 2>they're good at the one thing or or or they

1798
01:29:57.319 --> 01:29:59.479
<v Speaker 2>think they're real good and they think that they're just

1799
01:29:59.520 --> 01:30:02.239
<v Speaker 2>the bees for everything in life, And there's always so

1800
01:30:02.399 --> 01:30:04.960
<v Speaker 2>much more you can learn from other people if you

1801
01:30:05.079 --> 01:30:07.760
<v Speaker 2>take the time to really set your ego aside and

1802
01:30:08.239 --> 01:30:11.079
<v Speaker 2>look at the world and spend time with people, Because

1803
01:30:11.119 --> 01:30:15.119
<v Speaker 2>it turns out not everything you know, wisdom doesn't always

1804
01:30:15.159 --> 01:30:19.199
<v Speaker 2>come from discord conversations and YouTube videos. There's more to life,

1805
01:30:19.399 --> 01:30:23.079
<v Speaker 2>right than just engaging with other people online arguing the

1806
01:30:23.159 --> 01:30:25.520
<v Speaker 2>same things every day, which I do see from some

1807
01:30:25.640 --> 01:30:29.000
<v Speaker 2>people sometimes, right, Like, there's there's a big world out there.

1808
01:30:29.920 --> 01:30:34.079
<v Speaker 2>So that's the stuff that probably annoys me to know end,

1809
01:30:34.199 --> 01:30:37.439
<v Speaker 2>it's the folks who do call in and who consider

1810
01:30:37.479 --> 01:30:42.279
<v Speaker 2>themselves experts on particular subjects and until they've actually talked

1811
01:30:42.319 --> 01:30:45.039
<v Speaker 2>to somebody about that subject, I guess you know. I'm

1812
01:30:45.079 --> 01:30:48.600
<v Speaker 2>not saying any in reference today in particular, but even

1813
01:30:48.760 --> 01:30:52.199
<v Speaker 2>just like you know, general Christianity kind of stuff too.

1814
01:30:52.479 --> 01:30:54.399
<v Speaker 2>You know, people saying, oh, well, you haven't actually read

1815
01:30:54.439 --> 01:30:56.960
<v Speaker 2>the Bible. Oh well, I've read it actually from beginning

1816
01:30:57.000 --> 01:30:59.520
<v Speaker 2>to end, and I can tell you estummation of probably

1817
01:30:59.560 --> 01:31:01.560
<v Speaker 2>every book if you ask me in one you know

1818
01:31:01.680 --> 01:31:02.600
<v Speaker 2>what am I missing here?

1819
01:31:02.720 --> 01:31:02.840
<v Speaker 5>Right?

1820
01:31:02.920 --> 01:31:04.479
<v Speaker 2>That kind of stuff, So yeah, I don't know.

1821
01:31:05.000 --> 01:31:06.880
<v Speaker 1>I think in our so we're big load of the

1822
01:31:06.960 --> 01:31:10.239
<v Speaker 1>Rings people in my family, and we thought about naming

1823
01:31:10.279 --> 01:31:12.560
<v Speaker 1>our Sontheodin. We did not, but you know, we thought

1824
01:31:12.600 --> 01:31:15.960
<v Speaker 1>about it, and we refer to that as Saramon syndrome,

1825
01:31:16.199 --> 01:31:18.960
<v Speaker 1>because if you read Lord of the Rings, this my

1826
01:31:19.079 --> 01:31:22.600
<v Speaker 1>nerdy self is like Saramon didn't take the time to

1827
01:31:22.720 --> 01:31:25.960
<v Speaker 1>really understand how armies are composed and effective to the

1828
01:31:26.079 --> 01:31:29.239
<v Speaker 1>degree that a professional essentially not standing army but a

1829
01:31:29.319 --> 01:31:32.640
<v Speaker 1>more professional, cohesive army like Rohan which has been operating

1830
01:31:32.640 --> 01:31:36.000
<v Speaker 1>as an army for years, understood and so when in

1831
01:31:36.079 --> 01:31:38.039
<v Speaker 1>the movies it looks like Saramon is a genius with

1832
01:31:38.079 --> 01:31:41.960
<v Speaker 1>an overwhelming force, realistically, Saramon thought, because he's a very

1833
01:31:42.079 --> 01:31:45.119
<v Speaker 1>smart person, he would be able to of course take

1834
01:31:45.199 --> 01:31:47.399
<v Speaker 1>over you know, the lands of the row herem of

1835
01:31:47.479 --> 01:31:50.520
<v Speaker 1>course he could you know, be on par with Sorron

1836
01:31:50.640 --> 01:31:53.600
<v Speaker 1>and be a power to match his. When in actuality,

1837
01:31:53.920 --> 01:31:57.039
<v Speaker 1>he just assumed that because he was smart in these things,

1838
01:31:57.119 --> 01:31:58.920
<v Speaker 1>he knows he's smart and that he's good at everything.

1839
01:31:59.680 --> 01:32:04.119
<v Speaker 1>There are are some some powerful tech folks that I

1840
01:32:04.199 --> 01:32:06.960
<v Speaker 1>feel like fit this description. It's essentially the idea that

1841
01:32:07.079 --> 01:32:09.880
<v Speaker 1>I understand this, so I can run everyone else's lives, right,

1842
01:32:10.199 --> 01:32:11.920
<v Speaker 1>or I can tell everyone else how to live because

1843
01:32:12.119 --> 01:32:12.760
<v Speaker 1>I have this thing.

1844
01:32:12.920 --> 01:32:13.640
<v Speaker 2>I know this thing.

1845
01:32:14.119 --> 01:32:16.720
<v Speaker 1>So yeah, I feel like sorromon syndrome is what I think.

1846
01:32:16.640 --> 01:32:20.800
<v Speaker 2>Of that gone great man and history vibes there right,

1847
01:32:21.039 --> 01:32:24.119
<v Speaker 2>like great theory of history there vibes well. Yeah, the

1848
01:32:24.199 --> 01:32:27.399
<v Speaker 2>tegbros thing. Yeah, very very on point with this. I

1849
01:32:27.560 --> 01:32:31.279
<v Speaker 2>like that. But hey, we're getting close to the Yes, we.

1850
01:32:31.560 --> 01:32:34.880
<v Speaker 1>Need to wrap up. You are right to remind everyone

1851
01:32:34.960 --> 01:32:37.680
<v Speaker 1>the prompt for this week is what's the reason God

1852
01:32:37.760 --> 01:32:42.199
<v Speaker 1>created hell? Wrong? Answers only replying the comments and tune

1853
01:32:42.239 --> 01:32:44.359
<v Speaker 1>in at the beginning of next week's episode to hear

1854
01:32:44.399 --> 01:32:47.279
<v Speaker 1>the top three answers. And we also want to thank

1855
01:32:47.439 --> 01:32:50.560
<v Speaker 1>Richard for helping out today. Richard, do you want to

1856
01:32:50.560 --> 01:32:53.159
<v Speaker 1>pop on and tell us what is what was your

1857
01:32:53.199 --> 01:32:54.840
<v Speaker 1>favorite part of the show? Here's Richard.

1858
01:32:55.920 --> 01:32:57.680
<v Speaker 8>Jackie, Jackie, Jackie, Jackie.

1859
01:32:58.439 --> 01:33:00.680
<v Speaker 2>By the way, were you talking before the show? I'm

1860
01:33:00.720 --> 01:33:01.520
<v Speaker 2>just curious because you.

1861
01:33:01.560 --> 01:33:05.920
<v Speaker 8>Better, I'm going to I'm going to keep that secret.

1862
01:33:08.720 --> 01:33:10.239
<v Speaker 2>Well, Jackie, Jackie.

1863
01:33:10.560 --> 01:33:13.520
<v Speaker 8>I usually coming in I give a general appraisal about

1864
01:33:13.560 --> 01:33:15.199
<v Speaker 8>all of the calls, but the last two weeks. I

1865
01:33:15.239 --> 01:33:20.239
<v Speaker 8>feel I've answered Jackie. If you are an honest person,

1866
01:33:20.760 --> 01:33:24.600
<v Speaker 8>which I believe you, maybe you will know that the

1867
01:33:24.680 --> 01:33:29.000
<v Speaker 8>phenomenology of religion is a wide field with many many

1868
01:33:29.119 --> 01:33:30.319
<v Speaker 8>disagreements within it.

1869
01:33:30.720 --> 01:33:35.039
<v Speaker 2>That's true religious phenomenology. I'm sorry I'm interrupting you, but

1870
01:33:35.159 --> 01:33:37.039
<v Speaker 2>that also weird anyway.

1871
01:33:37.119 --> 01:33:39.119
<v Speaker 8>Well, one of the things that really pisses me off

1872
01:33:39.199 --> 01:33:41.399
<v Speaker 8>with people like that is they come on and they

1873
01:33:41.680 --> 01:33:44.279
<v Speaker 8>make statements as so there is only one opinion in

1874
01:33:44.359 --> 01:33:47.680
<v Speaker 8>the field, and it is not true. It is not

1875
01:33:47.880 --> 01:33:52.239
<v Speaker 8>the case, and something cannot be I could go on

1876
01:33:52.319 --> 01:33:53.800
<v Speaker 8>about this for hours, so I'm going to keep this

1877
01:33:53.880 --> 01:33:57.520
<v Speaker 8>as short as possible. Something cannot be more true than

1878
01:33:57.640 --> 01:34:00.359
<v Speaker 8>something else. You might be more persuaded that that thing

1879
01:34:00.520 --> 01:34:03.640
<v Speaker 8>is true, but something is either true or false. It

1880
01:34:03.840 --> 01:34:07.239
<v Speaker 8>cannot be more true than something else. This could have

1881
01:34:07.359 --> 01:34:11.319
<v Speaker 8>been an amazing call. Had Jackey been, you know, someone

1882
01:34:11.359 --> 01:34:13.640
<v Speaker 8>who wanted to come in and have a genuine conversation

1883
01:34:13.800 --> 01:34:16.000
<v Speaker 8>about this subject, it could have been an amazing call.

1884
01:34:16.199 --> 01:34:19.119
<v Speaker 8>We could have got to the point to that thing

1885
01:34:19.640 --> 01:34:24.720
<v Speaker 8>where we could have investigated what makes something, you know,

1886
01:34:25.000 --> 01:34:29.439
<v Speaker 8>a legitimate belief is what is where the phenomenology of

1887
01:34:29.560 --> 01:34:32.880
<v Speaker 8>religion really comes into its own is where is something

1888
01:34:32.960 --> 01:34:36.359
<v Speaker 8>a legitimate belief where we cannot criticize someone for having

1889
01:34:36.399 --> 01:34:40.039
<v Speaker 8>a belief in that thing, and does that make it true?

1890
01:34:40.760 --> 01:34:44.119
<v Speaker 8>That would have been an amazing call, but instead we

1891
01:34:44.319 --> 01:34:46.680
<v Speaker 8>had to go down this singing. Here's what Jackie did,

1892
01:34:46.880 --> 01:34:49.960
<v Speaker 8>and here's what Jordan Peterson does. What they do is

1893
01:34:50.039 --> 01:34:55.039
<v Speaker 8>this stuff fifteen twenty maybe twenty five pretty decent sized

1894
01:34:55.079 --> 01:34:57.960
<v Speaker 8>testicles in the mouth, and then they open their mouth

1895
01:34:58.239 --> 01:35:01.560
<v Speaker 8>and then they all come cascading out like a fucking waterfall.

1896
01:35:02.680 --> 01:35:07.039
<v Speaker 8>It's bullshit. You can speak in plain language if you

1897
01:35:07.199 --> 01:35:10.239
<v Speaker 8>understand the subject and you want to be honest when

1898
01:35:10.279 --> 01:35:13.600
<v Speaker 8>you're discussing the subject, you can speak in plain language.

1899
01:35:13.800 --> 01:35:16.880
<v Speaker 8>The reason you don't do that is because because you

1900
01:35:17.159 --> 01:35:20.359
<v Speaker 8>know full well if you do that, there is a

1901
01:35:20.439 --> 01:35:24.079
<v Speaker 8>conversation to be had, and that the conversation takes all

1902
01:35:24.159 --> 01:35:26.520
<v Speaker 8>the power away from you, because what you want to

1903
01:35:26.600 --> 01:35:32.840
<v Speaker 8>do is interspersual superiority. And finally, before before I drop out,

1904
01:35:33.079 --> 01:35:35.600
<v Speaker 8>you don't talk to my fucking host like you talk

1905
01:35:35.680 --> 01:35:36.000
<v Speaker 8>to them.

1906
01:35:36.319 --> 01:35:37.960
<v Speaker 2>I was the one who muted you at the end

1907
01:35:38.000 --> 01:35:40.159
<v Speaker 2>of that call. I will do it again. You do

1908
01:35:40.359 --> 01:35:41.840
<v Speaker 2>not talk to my host like that.

1909
01:35:42.239 --> 01:35:44.319
<v Speaker 8>Thank you guys. That was a fantastic show.

1910
01:35:44.359 --> 01:35:45.399
<v Speaker 2>I really appreciate you.

1911
01:35:46.239 --> 01:35:48.479
<v Speaker 1>Thank you. I feel so supported.

1912
01:35:51.000 --> 01:35:53.680
<v Speaker 2>Just came in and like, you know, talk to the

1913
01:35:53.800 --> 01:35:56.600
<v Speaker 2>teacher or something. That was That was the feeling I

1914
01:35:56.680 --> 01:35:57.119
<v Speaker 2>got there.

1915
01:35:57.479 --> 01:36:00.920
<v Speaker 1>It's nice. Yeah, and nt I drop the call and

1916
01:36:01.000 --> 01:36:02.359
<v Speaker 1>I was like, oh, it's already muted. I wonder how

1917
01:36:02.399 --> 01:36:08.159
<v Speaker 1>that happened. It's amazing, well, amazing. Thank everyone for watching,

1918
01:36:08.239 --> 01:36:11.359
<v Speaker 1>for being here. We are going to have a bit

1919
01:36:11.399 --> 01:36:13.000
<v Speaker 1>of an after show with at least a couple of

1920
01:36:13.159 --> 01:36:18.920
<v Speaker 1>us at to theatiny dot cc slash ACD discord. I've

1921
01:36:18.960 --> 01:36:21.359
<v Speaker 1>got all those words out. That's where you can catch us.

1922
01:36:21.680 --> 01:36:24.880
<v Speaker 1>And if you don't believe, this is your community and

1923
01:36:25.000 --> 01:36:28.079
<v Speaker 1>we appreciate you being here. If you do believe, we

1924
01:36:28.159 --> 01:36:28.720
<v Speaker 1>don't hate you.

1925
01:36:29.079 --> 01:36:32.520
<v Speaker 2>We're just not convinced. Thanks again, everybody. We'll see you later.

1926
01:36:50.359 --> 01:36:53.720
<v Speaker 8>We want the truth, so watch Truth Wanted live Friday

1927
01:36:53.800 --> 01:36:58.359
<v Speaker 8>at seven pm Central. Visit tiny dot CC slash YTTW

1928
01:36:58.680 --> 01:37:01.720
<v Speaker 8>and call into the show five one two nine nine

1929
01:37:01.840 --> 01:37:04.720
<v Speaker 8>one nine two four two, or connect to the show

1930
01:37:04.880 --> 01:37:08.520
<v Speaker 8>online at tiny dot cc slash call tw