Speaker 1: All right, welcome back, and joining us now is Lee Brown.
Speaker 1: She put together a relief organization that is still going on,
Speaker 1: and as she points out, this is not over yet.
Speaker 1: People's attention span is very short and they move on
Speaker 1: to the next story or the next hurricane or whatever. Right,
Speaker 1: but this is still going on and it's going to
Speaker 1: go on for a long time, and so we need
Speaker 1: to keep people's attention focused on this and fight against that.
Speaker 1: And there's also a concerted effort to keep this quiet.
Speaker 1: I want to begin by telling you where you can go.
Speaker 1: The official donation page is on giftsend Go and it
Speaker 1: is at we Love WNC for Western North Carolina. We
Speaker 1: Love WNC. That's on gifts End Go. We'll give that
Speaker 1: at the end of the broadcast as well. But thank
Speaker 1: you for joining us, Lee Brown, thank you very much
Speaker 1: for coming on.
Speaker 2: Well, thank you for having me honored to be on
Speaker 2: your show.
Speaker 1: Well, thank you. I want to, you know, let's talk
Speaker 1: about what is going on in the ongoing need here.
Speaker 1: But I think a lot of people are just curious
Speaker 1: as to what it looks like on the ground. But
Speaker 1: maybe we could start with how this all began and
Speaker 1: how you got involved in this what was it like
Speaker 1: what you saw by being there on the spot.
Speaker 2: Well, just to be very clear, I'm located about an
Speaker 2: hour outside of the impact zone, but being a native
Speaker 2: North Carolinian and having a lot of friends and family
Speaker 2: in the affected area, it just it hit home for me.
Speaker 2: And so when the storm hit and we were watching
Speaker 2: the flooding in the very early coverage, which there was
Speaker 2: a little coverage at the beginning, I could see where
Speaker 2: this was headed. And I have helped with natural disasters
Speaker 2: in the past, because North Carolina does happen to get
Speaker 2: hurricanes on a regular basis, and being in real estate,
Speaker 2: I think real estate agents often don't get the credit
Speaker 2: they're due for the way realtors just love to dig
Speaker 2: in and help their communities. Well, my husband and I
Speaker 2: celebrated our wedding anniversary on September twenty seventh. Then this
Speaker 2: is the third year that we've spent our anniversary doing
Speaker 2: relief efforts. So I don't know how we got lucky
Speaker 2: like that, but I knew it was coming and I
Speaker 2: said told my husband, I said, well, let's load the
Speaker 2: real estate company moving truck up and we'll let our
Speaker 2: clients bring donations and we'll be prepared to help, not
Speaker 2: knowing how bad it was going to be, but knowing
Speaker 2: there was going to be a need, so I put
Speaker 2: the word out that we would let people come help
Speaker 2: us build the truck up. And then as the news
Speaker 2: hit of the breadth of the disaster and the gravity
Speaker 2: of what was going on, it turned into it an
Speaker 2: accidental grassroots effort that has been embraced across the well,
Speaker 2: actually it's international at this point because my videos talking
Speaker 2: about it had gone viral. And it's hard to put
Speaker 2: into words what it looks like in western North Carolina
Speaker 2: because it's truly warzone kind of conditions in many areas
Speaker 2: where the roads have collapsed. I forty between North Carolina
Speaker 2: and Tennessee collapsed with vehicles stranded on the highway. You
Speaker 2: have the city of Ashville, which is a decent sized
Speaker 2: small city, fourteen feet of water over the water treatment station,
Speaker 2: so no water in the city and town's gone. Chimney
Speaker 2: Rock is gone. That's one of the few situations you
Speaker 2: can actually find evidence of on the social networks. Swana
Speaker 2: Noah went under water, Montreat, the home of Billy Graham
Speaker 2: just virtually destroyed. And it's all I can describe it.
Speaker 2: As is. It's the flood of biblical proportions. It's the
Speaker 2: highest amount of flooding we've ever seen in the state.
Speaker 2: It four it was four feet higher than the previous
Speaker 2: generational flood in nineteen sixteen. So it was, it was,
Speaker 2: and it is because we're still right now on day thirteen,
Speaker 2: I guess we're still doing rescue efforts for people who
Speaker 2: were in their homes and then the driveways washed away
Speaker 2: and the roads washed away, and the only way you
Speaker 2: can access these people is with ATVs. And unfortunately there's
Speaker 2: as many well there's probably at this point more that
Speaker 2: have perished than have survived in those survival situations, just
Speaker 2: because of where the geography had it located.
Speaker 3: And it's staggering. It's just just staggering.
Speaker 1: I've never seen anything like it, quite frankly, you see
Speaker 1: when damage. I grew up in Florida, saw hurricanes all
Speaker 1: the time, and to see homes demolished with tornadoes and hurricanes,
Speaker 1: that's one thing. But I've never seen the kind of
Speaker 1: force that we saw with this water just washing away
Speaker 1: you know, not only homes, but highways and the foundations
Speaker 1: of where the highways were. I mean, it's it's like
Speaker 1: a nuclear bomb went off. Truly amazing. What has happened there?
Speaker 1: What about the when you got there? What did you see?
Speaker 1: I mean, you drive up to you you didn't know
Speaker 1: how bad this was going to be, and what was
Speaker 1: the situation there? I guess at that point in time
Speaker 1: people were doing rescue work. Tell us a little bit
Speaker 1: about that.
Speaker 2: Well, I think the rescue work was actually slightly delayed
Speaker 2: because of the breadth of the disaster. I mean, you're
Speaker 2: talking a geographic area that's the size of other states,
Speaker 2: So there's a shock factor involved. And I have some
Speaker 2: friends that are mayors of small towns because I'm fairly
Speaker 2: politically active. And I talked to a friend of mine
Speaker 2: in one of the small city large town status just
Speaker 2: to check in and see what was going on. And
Speaker 2: he told me his town had no water, that their
Speaker 2: water station had gone out, And of course my immediate
Speaker 2: reaction was, let me get you some water. So I
Speaker 2: talked to a friend of mine who had a horse trailer,
Speaker 2: and so we called Low's to see if we could
Speaker 2: get a hold of some palettes of water. And this
Speaker 2: was on the first day. So we chase down the water,
Speaker 2: we get the water into her truck and head west. Well,
Speaker 2: while we're heading west, they're closing down access points. And
Speaker 2: I forty is the primary interstate going obviously from east
Speaker 2: to west, and it was shut down, so we had
Speaker 2: to go on seventy. And then when we got on seventy,
Speaker 2: there were only certain ways you could get into this
Speaker 2: town because of the road wash outs, but also because
Speaker 2: of the blockades that had been put up to restrict traffic,
Speaker 2: because of the uncertainty of the roads, and it was
Speaker 2: and what would normally be a drive of a little
Speaker 2: over an hour took three and a half hours to
Speaker 2: drive like this to get to the town, just to
Speaker 2: give some water because there was no water. I mean,
Speaker 2: the municipal system is out. And I don't know that
Speaker 2: any of us really understand how much we take for
Speaker 2: granted are clean and safe drinking water. I mean, unless
Speaker 2: you traveled in the third world, it's hard to understand
Speaker 2: how spoiled we are as Americans. And when that water
Speaker 2: supply is gone, people on a well would normally be
Speaker 2: all right, but they're electricities out and if they have
Speaker 2: a generator, did they have fuel for it? Because not
Speaker 2: everybody is thinking ahead all the time. Most folks don't
Speaker 2: have a stockpile of water. So we got there with
Speaker 2: this pallette of water, and the people came over and
Speaker 2: got it immediately, just sheer gratitude, and it was the
Speaker 2: beauty of it was nobody was grabbed more than they
Speaker 2: should have. There was a very big desire to make
Speaker 2: it go as far as it could. And that was
Speaker 2: day one, and so looking at the road closures was
Speaker 2: it was very unsettling to think you could no longer
Speaker 2: travel freely because of all the blockades. If you could
Speaker 2: travel freely, the roads may not be accessible. And if
Speaker 2: the roads aren't accessible, how do you get to your
Speaker 2: neighbors with life saving things like clean water? And then
Speaker 2: that was day one. By day three there's the smell
Speaker 2: of decomposition, and that's a it's nothing anybody ever wants
Speaker 2: to experience. But that's if you remember the temperatures when
Speaker 2: this hit still in the end summer, so still warm enough,
Speaker 2: and the human body is not made for.
Speaker 3: Lying around in the sun. And that's that's continuing to go.
Speaker 2: On because we still have not gathered all of our
Speaker 2: neighbors who perished. They have not all had a decent burial,
Speaker 2: of course, because we haven't we haven't located everybody, and
Speaker 2: so it's it's just it's hard. And so when you
Speaker 2: see it now, the news is already showing the parts
Speaker 2: of towns that are intact, their messaging being it wasn't
Speaker 2: that bad, but it is. It's just devastation. And the
Speaker 2: example I can give you of a town called Rollins
Speaker 2: is a very tiny hamlet in the North Carolina Mountains,
Speaker 2: had about fifteen homes prior to the Great Flood. I
Speaker 2: guess there's four houses left, and that's one of the
Speaker 2: lucky little hamlets. The rest of the houses are gone
Speaker 2: because it primarily sat on the banks of a river.
Speaker 2: And when you see what's left, it is just things
Speaker 2: are gone. It's hard to get your mind around it.
Speaker 2: And for me as a North Carolina native who's gone
Speaker 2: to the mountains for years for vacations and for going
Speaker 2: out hiking and church retreat I mean every church I've
Speaker 2: ever gone through, the retreat places are up in the mountains.
Speaker 2: Your geography has changed forever. So you have the loss
Speaker 2: of life. We've lost humans, the geography is different. Towns
Speaker 2: are gone, and so there's a grief over what the
Speaker 2: state was prior to twenty twenty four. And what it
Speaker 2: is now because it won't ever be the same. Oh,
Speaker 2: it's just it really makes the Bible come to life
Speaker 2: when you look at the way that things went in
Speaker 2: the Terrah and what happened with these towns as they
Speaker 2: they warred with each other and they would wipe them
Speaker 2: out and salt the earth, And you can't help but
Speaker 2: feel that there's obviously a visual of the spiritual battle
Speaker 2: that we're in.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Oh, it's amazing. And so at this point now,
Speaker 1: as you said, all the roads are closed, there weren't
Speaker 1: any roads in many cases, so they would black people
Speaker 1: off from that. In terms of the logistics of trying
Speaker 1: to get stuff in, that's got to be so incredibly challenging.
Speaker 1: And we've had all kinds of reports that we've talked
Speaker 1: about over the last week about people trying to come
Speaker 1: in with helicopters and evacuate people out, other people pulling
Speaker 1: rank on them and stopping that. Organizations like the one
Speaker 1: that was in bat Cave, and they've done a great
Speaker 1: job logistically of putting stuff in and getting things distributed.
Speaker 1: How are you operating with this and who are you
Speaker 1: partnering with in order to get these is pies in
Speaker 1: when there's not a clear path or a road to
Speaker 1: get there.
Speaker 2: Well, when my video went viral, I got calls from
Speaker 2: people with trucks and trailers literally all over the country
Speaker 2: who are patriots who are not afraid of figuring it out.
Speaker 2: And we have had this ragtag group of people who
Speaker 2: never knew each other but responded to a call, who
Speaker 2: have come in found their way through truckers who had
Speaker 2: the right permits and knew how to navigate road closures
Speaker 2: better than a regular person, local people with an suv
Speaker 2: or a pickup truck or a four by four. And
Speaker 2: that's my group has just kind of filled gaps wherever
Speaker 2: we've been called upon. The organized groups have helped us
Speaker 2: to know where are the polaris guys needed, Where can
Speaker 2: we get an ATV up, We need toachs to put
Speaker 2: food in, to go up the side of a hill
Speaker 2: to get to a family. So it's none of the
Speaker 2: big groups. I will give good credit to Samaritan's Purse,
Speaker 2: Franklin Graham's organization. They were in Bune as of day
Speaker 2: one with their organization, they were set up and distributing
Speaker 2: and my goodness, a super well oiled machine. Very impressed
Speaker 2: with the work that they've done, and the Baptist churches,
Speaker 2: the Baptist Coalition got busy on day one as well,
Speaker 2: and they've been spreading out through the church network to
Speaker 2: some of the smaller areas. But other than that, we've
Speaker 2: operated with people we find on Facebook or people that
Speaker 2: have been referred to us as reputable and kind, thoughtful
Speaker 2: people who are looking out for their neighbors. And so
Speaker 2: it's just what happens when people decide to pitch in together.
Speaker 2: It's not a five ZHO one C three, and we're
Speaker 2: not any true organization, and in fact, those of us
Speaker 2: that swung into action a few days ago are now
Speaker 2: trying to figure out, all right, we still have jobs
Speaker 2: to do because we're not relief workers, and there are
Speaker 2: professionals available, but they're still overwhelmed. So how do we
Speaker 2: continue to help while we manage our own lives so
Speaker 2: that we can continue to support. But the way people
Speaker 2: have pitched in is it's the spirit of what America
Speaker 2: was founded on, and it's encouraging to see that it's
Speaker 2: still there.
Speaker 1: It is. And you know, just before he came on,
Speaker 1: I finished off with Alexis Totokville, who came to the
Speaker 1: US basically look at the prison system. But he was
Speaker 1: just amazed at how people in America would come together
Speaker 1: to solve a common problem voluntarily as a community. And
Speaker 1: it is wonderful from a perspective of where I am.
Speaker 1: It's wonderful to see that happening again, to see that
Speaker 1: that's not dead. That when people see that there's a need,
Speaker 1: they can organize themselves and people come together and offer
Speaker 1: their services. I've seen this in the past when there's
Speaker 1: been a localized stuff, it's not many times when it's
Speaker 1: really big, then you get FEMA, you get the military,
Speaker 1: other people come in and they essentially shut that down
Speaker 1: and take it over. Whether they do a good job
Speaker 1: or not. They didn't allow people to participate and they
Speaker 1: shut that down. And so that's why I think so
Speaker 1: important about this and part of what you're doing. I
Speaker 1: think you're kind of focused on trying to get supplies.
Speaker 1: And as I look at the site that you've set up,
Speaker 1: you got an Amazon wish list, and in that wish
Speaker 1: list you put in things that people you know that
Speaker 1: people need, medical supplies, general needs, a wish list, and
Speaker 1: other things like that, and I guess you're then handing
Speaker 1: that off to some of these other organizations that are there.
Speaker 2: No, we're taking it in ourselves.
Speaker 1: Okays.
Speaker 2: We have had three scenarios where my teams have been
Speaker 2: interrupted by FEMA, and FEMA has a plan to inventory
Speaker 2: everything that they can get their hands on. We choose
Speaker 2: not to let them inventory it because there's a need
Speaker 2: and I don't think they fully grasp how geographically challenging
Speaker 2: an area like this is because you're not talking a city,
Speaker 2: an urban center of you in a flat area. You're
Speaker 2: talking fifteen houses here, sixty eight houses there. And the
Speaker 2: centralized information tends to be the volunteer fire department. So
Speaker 2: we've reached out to many of the volunteer fire departments
Speaker 2: because they know who in their community needs insulin. Well,
Speaker 2: I probably don't have insulin, but I may have a
Speaker 2: contact who can help get the prescriptions and handle all
Speaker 2: the details on that. And so we're removing more quickly
Speaker 2: because we're not trying to follow the red tape of
Speaker 2: the government. And we understand that FEMA wants to have
Speaker 2: a central supply hub, but if you have a central
Speaker 2: supply hub in a huge geographical area, then how are
Speaker 2: you going to deploy that in a timeframe that makes sense,
Speaker 2: especially with Falsh warnings now because now we've moved into winter,
Speaker 2: so our job today we moved another we'll move thirty
Speaker 2: generators up today to give to thirty different homes so
Speaker 2: they could keep the heat on. We moved another dozen
Speaker 2: propane portable heaters into some other homes for elderly who
Speaker 2: don't want to leave can't leave. And I just I
Speaker 2: don't know that FEMA's interests it in dropping generators at
Speaker 2: people's houses so that they can stay put. They would
Speaker 2: rather put you through a red tape nightmare to get
Speaker 2: a little bit of cash. But the little bit of
Speaker 2: cash their offering doesn't even cover the cost of a
Speaker 2: generator that I got at wholesale price, and they're not
Speaker 2: going to deliver it. So if you're elderly and you
Speaker 2: apply for this little bit of money on FEMA online,
Speaker 2: so you have to have internet access, they want receipts,
Speaker 2: They want a doctor's note if it's say a breathing machine.
Speaker 2: We also got thanks of oxygen delivered up today as well.
Speaker 2: They want a doctor's note for your oxygen. Okay, so
Speaker 2: FEMA is only going to give you money if you
Speaker 2: prove your power was out while you're on the internet,
Speaker 2: and if you prove that you have a doctor's note
Speaker 2: for what you need, and if you have receipts, and
Speaker 2: then you'll get this seven hundred and fifty dollars. Well,
Speaker 2: I have found that if the donations I've received are
Speaker 2: going to buy thirty generators, I called my guiet Low's
Speaker 2: and Low's has been amazing by the way. They were
Speaker 2: so quick to help us with hunting down what we needed,
Speaker 2: giving us wholesale ing even though I'm not a builder,
Speaker 2: and Lows helped us hunt them down. We talked to
Speaker 2: a guy with a trailer, and the guy with a
Speaker 2: trailer who's not working today, put the generators on and
Speaker 2: ran them up so that they could be distributed from
Speaker 2: a church to these thirty homes. If femas in charge,
Speaker 2: what's that a month process? And in that month process,
Speaker 2: how many help issues occur because somebody's cold in their
Speaker 2: home in the mountains in the winter in North Carolina.
Speaker 2: So yeah, we're we're circumventing, but not because we're you know,
Speaker 2: breaking any laws. We're just doing it a better way.
Speaker 2: And well, idea how the communities were built though we
Speaker 2: took care of each other. Churches used to be the center.
Speaker 2: Churches knew who was hungry, and we fed them, and
Speaker 2: we knew who was sick, and we took care of them,
Speaker 2: because the Bible says you take care of aliens with
Speaker 2: those and orphans, and so that's what we're looking at here,
Speaker 2: is how do we take care of those that are
Speaker 2: passed out, those that are alone, and those that are
Speaker 2: unable to care for themselves.
Speaker 1: That's right, and you know, the bureaucracies have their own agenda.
Speaker 1: But the other part of it is the centralization that
Speaker 1: you're talking about. If you've got a decentralized thing that
Speaker 1: is happening, it can happen so much more effectively and
Speaker 1: quickly than the centralized bureaucracy. They took them a long
Speaker 1: time from what I've seen, to even show up. And
Speaker 1: then when they do, their obstructionists because of their imposed procedures,
Speaker 1: because of centralized planning and distribution and all the rest
Speaker 1: of the stuff. So that is what is so essential,
Speaker 1: and that is also that's why we need to talk
Speaker 1: about this for everybody. It shows the power of community,
Speaker 1: it shows the power of volunteerism, and it shows just
Speaker 1: at the same time the callousness and the ineffectiveness of
Speaker 1: a distant, centralized bureaucracy. And that's the key story I
Speaker 1: think here, And as you point out, this is going
Speaker 1: to go on for quite some time. I mean, I've
Speaker 1: seen some of the organizations. There was some Mennight organization
Speaker 1: that has a history of going and they spent two
Speaker 1: and a half years at an Indian reservation. FEMA wouldn't
Speaker 1: do anything to help them, but they're wiped out with
Speaker 1: a storm and I don't know why it didn't fall
Speaker 1: into their bureaucratic checklist of something they would help with.
Speaker 1: But this group went there and they stayed there for
Speaker 1: like two and a half years, and they said, we're
Speaker 1: going to be here for several years because we're going
Speaker 1: to be here helping people rebuild. I guess at this
Speaker 1: point right now, the rescue operation is really more recovery
Speaker 1: of bodies. But the people that are there, they need
Speaker 1: a constant resupply of things because they really can't help themselves.
Speaker 1: It's really reliant on outside help.
Speaker 2: Would you say absolutely?
Speaker 3: Because the infrastructure has just experienced.
Speaker 2: Catastrophic damage, the city of Ashville is not expected to
Speaker 2: have water back for another three weeks. Wow is the
Speaker 2: optimistic estimate? That's a city.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: Now if you go to some of the outlying areas,
Speaker 2: there is some return of power, but there has not
Speaker 2: been a return yet of water services because being mountainous,
Speaker 2: you've also got some groundwater concerns now with the way
Speaker 2: that the flooding occurred. So even if you're on a well,
Speaker 2: the newest thing we're adding to our wish list or
Speaker 2: well water testing kits, we are begging people to test
Speaker 2: the water before you use it, because you don't know
Speaker 2: what has come into your water source now. And part
Speaker 2: of what we've received from our donations from around the country,
Speaker 2: and obviously I am just one of the many, many
Speaker 2: voices that has been a voice to cry out for
Speaker 2: western North Carolina. But the water that has come in
Speaker 2: has just been astonishing. We actually have had to hold
Speaker 2: some back in storage because there's nowhere else to put it.
Speaker 1: And what about you let me ask you this. We're
Speaker 1: talking about water. This is a comment from somebody on here. McGowan,
Speaker 1: a fan, thank you for that, says make sure you
Speaker 1: have a gravity filter, a non electric distiller to make
Speaker 1: sure it's as pure as possible. I imagine that would
Speaker 1: really be a priority rather than bring in the water,
Speaker 1: bringing in something that's going to be able to you know,
Speaker 1: water filters that are gravity feed that don't have to
Speaker 1: have power. I'm sure that's on your list as well.
Speaker 2: Right well, yes, and we have folks that have sent
Speaker 2: us some very good explainer videos for how people can
Speaker 2: get those set up and what we're doing right now.
Speaker 2: We're in triage phase right now, and when you're in triage,
Speaker 2: it's palettes of water and how do we manage it
Speaker 2: for this moment? And as we get the systems in
Speaker 2: place and we figure out how to get people through roads,
Speaker 2: we have these I guess you could call them hillbilly
Speaker 2: road repairs where you have a bunch of guys that
Speaker 2: show up and put a road back together during the night,
Speaker 2: old school style.
Speaker 3: As we get those things fixed, then.
Speaker 2: We can look at more of the bigger picture, because
Speaker 2: we have people that would like to take a shower,
Speaker 2: and so an item like those gravity filters is something
Speaker 2: that if you do it big enough and put it
Speaker 2: up a little bit, you can actually clean with it.
Speaker 2: And so there's we're still in triage phase. Is the
Speaker 2: hardest thing to explain to folks that we won't think
Speaker 2: to be fixed. Our whole society is and immediate gratification society.
Speaker 2: We want it fixed, we want it better. When we
Speaker 2: took up the generators, we took up some dehumidifiers because
Speaker 2: if you think about this, a lot of the houses
Speaker 2: have water intrusion. As somebody in real estate, I want
Speaker 2: to save those houses, so we have to get dehumidifiers in,
Speaker 2: get the moisture out so they don't wind up with
Speaker 2: the mold problem. When we invariably hit a little warm street,
Speaker 2: which is North Carolina, is going to do warm cold, warm, cold, warm,
Speaker 2: cold for a while, and we want to make sure
Speaker 2: these people's houses are still safe to live in. So yes,
Speaker 2: there's lots of things we can do. And for those
Speaker 2: of y'all that are curious, one of our best prepper
Speaker 2: communities that I've ever known is in one of the
Speaker 2: affected counties. Build doing pretty all right now. They've actually
Speaker 2: been able to take what they had prepared and they
Speaker 2: are helping their neighbors. In fact, one of my dear
Speaker 2: friends in that community was frustrated with the distribution, so
Speaker 2: she put a pop up tent in her yard and
Speaker 2: put out some supplies that we brought to her house
Speaker 2: just on the back of a trailer and the neighbors
Speaker 2: all came right out and were served. And that's a
Speaker 2: blessing to be prepared enough that you can serve. And
Speaker 2: I don't know that we talk about that enough with
Speaker 2: people who are organically just taking care of the future
Speaker 2: and thinking ahead. It's not just a selfish desire to
Speaker 2: take care of yourself. But if you're taking care of
Speaker 2: you have the bandwidth to help other people. So just
Speaker 2: a reminder that prepping is not selfish.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, oh yeah, And it's not crazy either, as
Speaker 1: we see they like to treat that's a crazy thing.
Speaker 1: It's like, I'm sorry, We've seen too many things happen
Speaker 1: in the last few years for people everythink that prepping
Speaker 1: is crazy. It is crazy not to prep a question.
Speaker 1: This is from someone here, the people, they said, a
Speaker 1: lot of people. The government is already telling people they
Speaker 1: can't rebuild in certain places because it's not safe, says them. Sellers,
Speaker 1: is that something that you're seeing. Of course, Lee, you're
Speaker 1: a retail a realtor, and her website is Lee Sells
Speaker 1: and she spells her name l E I G H.
Speaker 1: Lee Sells dot com will find information about this relief effort.
Speaker 1: But of course you can also find that at giftsen
Speaker 1: go and give sing go. You look for we Love
Speaker 1: w INC for Western North Carolina, we Love W and C.
Speaker 1: That'll give you that information. I'm sure probably link back
Speaker 1: to the other thing as well. But as a realtor,
Speaker 1: what are you hearing about that? Because that's been a
Speaker 1: concern of a lot of people. You know, we've got
Speaker 1: these situations with a couple of different minds, a very
Speaker 1: rare quartz mind, a big lithium mind that people didn't
Speaker 1: really want to see that come in. Are they going
Speaker 1: to shove people out? Are we hearing any of that
Speaker 1: kind of stuff?
Speaker 2: Well, it's a valid concern when we see what happened
Speaker 2: in Maui, and that's a situation that I don't think
Speaker 2: will ever be adequately explained, although a lot of us
Speaker 2: have our theories. North Carolina is fortunate, though, we have
Speaker 2: a very strong state constitution that is very much protective
Speaker 2: of private property rights. So when all of the when
Speaker 2: all of this stuff went down, The lithium vein that
Speaker 2: gets referenced runs from Ashville all the way down through
Speaker 2: Gaston County, and it's been there obviously since the Lord
Speaker 2: created it, but it became very valuable as we've moved
Speaker 2: more towards these electronic vehicles that are being forced on us,
Speaker 2: and that Gaston County is where we saw the first
Speaker 2: mining operations really kick in, and that's generally you've got
Speaker 2: a lot of black rock stakeholders. So there's a lot
Speaker 2: of I would say nefarious actors afoot. But this storm
Speaker 2: unless the cloud seating situation really is what happened, and
Speaker 2: even if it were, I don't know that the bad
Speaker 2: actors can get a hold of the land unless the
Speaker 2: property owners sell because our state constitution protects illegal takings
Speaker 2: by the government. And if something were to happen, it
Speaker 2: would be that a phone call comes into Bob from
Speaker 2: some little shyster investor who says, your land ain't worth
Speaker 2: then I'll give you cash, take it off your hands.
Speaker 2: So if our neighbors can't give in to bad sales pitches,
Speaker 2: then there could be some takings going on. But as
Speaker 2: of right now, and I talked to the Speaker of
Speaker 2: the House in North Carolina. He's a very he's a
Speaker 2: very savvy lawyer, and he told me there's no legislation
Speaker 2: needed at this point because the constitution is strong. But
Speaker 2: he did ask the real estate community to please get
Speaker 2: the word out to people. Don't sell cheap, don't give
Speaker 2: in to what you read on the internet, because that's
Speaker 2: the risk. The risk is that the chatter on X
Speaker 2: and Instagram and Facebook scares people enough that they go
Speaker 2: ahead and sell. I will point out there's a lot
Speaker 2: of chatter about a town hall meeting that happened in
Speaker 2: Chimney Rock that did not happen. That's in internet urban myth.
Speaker 2: And so it's important to be alert because our government
Speaker 2: is full of bad actors who do value money more
Speaker 2: than they value life because they serve the wrong God.
Speaker 2: And as we look at what they do on a
Speaker 2: general basis, it is possible to believe it. But in
Speaker 2: North Carolina, what I don't think they counted on at
Speaker 2: Black Rock is the absolute stubbornness of mountain people who
Speaker 2: are not going anywhere. And there was a lady that
Speaker 2: we spoke with on Sunday of last week and she
Speaker 2: had basically moved herself up under what was left of
Speaker 2: her lean to her house is pretty much gone and
Speaker 2: there's a flagpole in the yard. She said, I ain't
Speaker 2: going anywhere, and so we said, all right, we're going
Speaker 2: to get you the heated tent that you can stay put.
Speaker 2: But you know, they might be thinking that the attitudes
Speaker 2: are more of the people they encounter in the ashvills,
Speaker 2: the urban areas that go to the breweries and our
Speaker 2: university kids. But mountain people are generational, hard scrabble folks.
Speaker 2: They're used to pulling a living out of very unforgiving land.
Speaker 2: They have made home sites mountain sides, and I think
Speaker 2: they're going to prove to be a tougher fell than
Speaker 2: anybody realizes.
Speaker 1: Good. Well, along those lines, what about insurance, because we're
Speaker 1: seeing a lot of stuff about how insurance companies are
Speaker 1: trying to weasel out of this kind of thing and
Speaker 1: what you know as a realatory. Again, what do you
Speaker 1: hear in terms of people dealing with their insurance companies.
Speaker 2: Well, now that is a concern because the property values
Speaker 2: have gone up so much since the COVID era started
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty, and for most people, if you owned
Speaker 2: a property and you had insurance on it, it's probably
Speaker 2: surely unlikely that you called the insurance company and said, hey,
Speaker 2: my property went up from two hundred and fifty thousand
Speaker 2: to five hundred thousand, please increase my coverage. Most people
Speaker 2: don't do that because they don't want to pay the
Speaker 2: increased premium. However, if you did not increase your coverage,
Speaker 2: then your insurance policy may be enforced and you may
Speaker 2: have paid on it dutifully. But if the value of
Speaker 2: your house exceeds the policy, that's not even the fault
Speaker 2: of the insurance company. That is the challenge of a
Speaker 2: rising market. And when you're in a home that's in
Speaker 2: good shape or you're selling it, you love the rising market.
Speaker 2: When you're buying, you hate the rising market. When you're
Speaker 2: a homeowner who's enjoying your three percent interest rate that
Speaker 2: you got seven years ago, it doesn't bother you until
Speaker 2: something like this hits. And so what I would say,
Speaker 2: is what we have been saying on the real estate
Speaker 2: side for some time, is please check your policies and
Speaker 2: make sure that you have the appropriate amount of coverage
Speaker 2: because what you paid two hundred and fifty thousand dollars
Speaker 2: for six years ago cannot be built for that now,
Speaker 2: even if you had the money. Labors high, materials are high,
Speaker 2: and the biggest cost we have is permits and regulations
Speaker 2: trying to get something built. So we should all be
Speaker 2: paying attention to our policies. Now that being said, if
Speaker 2: you are watching this or listening to this and you're
Speaker 2: in an affected area, don't tell the insurance company that
Speaker 2: you experienced a flood. You got to tell them it
Speaker 2: was high water and rain because you get covered if
Speaker 2: you don't use the word flood. And I'd also point
Speaker 2: this out, there's a lot of experts on the internet.
Speaker 2: I love Internet experts in the comments, and they keep
Speaker 2: telling us that these people should have had flood insurance. Really, really,
Speaker 2: you put a house on a mountain side. No, they
Speaker 2: didn't have blood insurance. And that's normal because again, we're
Speaker 2: in an inflationary environment where people are trying to pay
Speaker 2: the bills. They're not going to add on flood insurance
Speaker 2: for the side of a mountain where it's not necessary
Speaker 2: because you're not in a flood zone and you don't
Speaker 2: think it's ever going to happen. But I can't blame
Speaker 2: an insurance company for being nervous about a generational native generational.
Speaker 2: I think this is a it's a century long era
Speaker 2: we've been dealing with here. They can't anticipate it, and
Speaker 2: they're not made out of money either. The only crowd
Speaker 2: that's made out of money is the government who keeps
Speaker 2: printing it and taking it out of our pockets where
Speaker 2: nobody can afford anything. So that's a challenge too. But
Speaker 2: the other thing people don't know about flood insurance is
Speaker 2: even if you had it, even if you've got your
Speaker 2: claim approved, it's a max payout of two hundred and
Speaker 2: fifty thousand, and the way the markets have changed, that's
Speaker 2: not even going to buy you a nice double wide.
Speaker 2: When you consider all of the foundation things that have
Speaker 2: to be reset. We've got to redo deptic tanks, We're
Speaker 2: going to have to redo wells, We're going to have
Speaker 2: to redo water and sewer taps. If it's on the
Speaker 2: infrastructure lines, it's just it's going to be interesting. And
Speaker 2: I don't know what the answer is. But as I've
Speaker 2: said in the video a couple of days ago, I
Speaker 2: sure hope that the banks like JP Morgan and Bank
Speaker 2: of America, who make a lot of money off of homeowners,
Speaker 2: I hope they'll forgive these mortgages because I do worry
Speaker 2: about the people who no longer have a collateral. They
Speaker 2: have no house left, but they still have a mortgage.
Speaker 2: And so that's right. What's going to happen there. Are
Speaker 2: they going to get foreclosed on no house or is
Speaker 2: the bank going to forgive it? I don't know the answer,
Speaker 2: but I just it's what everybody has to do is
Speaker 2: pray for the affected people because they're going to need
Speaker 2: strength and resilience to process all of these things. While
Speaker 2: they find water and food, while they do.
Speaker 3: Without a hot shower in their house.
Speaker 2: And now they've got to think about mortgages for houses
Speaker 2: that don't exist, and it's it's untenable for a lot
Speaker 2: of people.
Speaker 1: So and then how do they work? You know, how
Speaker 1: they work? The roads are washed out? I mean, what
Speaker 1: happens to their income? That's the other part of it.
Speaker 2: Well, the stores are gone. A lot of our employers
Speaker 2: have lost their businesses. I mean, I look at my
Speaker 2: real estate people and we don't get a lot of
Speaker 2: sympathy because we have a terrible perception of us has
Speaker 2: been created by the mainstream media and by Hollywood. But
Speaker 2: I think most of your viewers and listeners, when you've
Speaker 2: engaged with the realtor, they're very hard working, thoughtful people.
Speaker 2: Well what are they going to sell? There's no inventory
Speaker 2: for them to sell. They live on commission and I've
Speaker 2: talked to several who are in a panic right now
Speaker 2: because they did have something under contract, but now the
Speaker 2: house has either gone or damaged. Buy or can't buy.
Speaker 2: A seller can't sell house isn't going to receive the loan.
Speaker 2: So you've got a whole profession that's out of work
Speaker 2: unless they relocate. Well, if a real estate agent relocates
Speaker 2: to work for me an hour away, I'd be glad
Speaker 2: to have them, but they don't know anybody where I
Speaker 2: am in real estate's relationship base, and it's competitive, and
Speaker 2: then you have to learn a new county and you
Speaker 2: learn a new market, so it's challenge on top of challenge.
Speaker 2: But I'm hopeful that because North Carolina has had so
Speaker 2: many employers come in with Eli Lilly and Toyota and Boomsonic,
Speaker 2: that will see those new big employers rise up and
Speaker 2: making a concerted effort to provide employment to people, even
Speaker 2: if it's a one year contract, to give him a
Speaker 2: chance to get started again. It's so multifaceted, but.
Speaker 1: I just thought about it. You know, how do you
Speaker 1: get to work and is the place that you worked
Speaker 1: at even still there? I mean that's.
Speaker 2: Because cars are gone. I think the car's flooded.
Speaker 1: Too, that's right, Yeah, no car.
Speaker 2: Well, you know, I talked to a guy, so he's
Speaker 2: an asphalt trucker, and of course I told you trucks
Speaker 2: and trailers have come in from around the country. This
Speaker 2: wonderful gentleman has a new dump truck. He works for
Speaker 2: an asphalt company out of Tennessee, and it's one of
Speaker 2: our largest asphalt companies in the southeast. They got a
Speaker 2: bid to come fix some roads, but the main facility
Speaker 2: was gone because of the floods, and so this company
Speaker 2: received a bid. He lost fifty nine pieces of equipment.
Speaker 2: And then you have to ask yourself, my gracious, how
Speaker 2: crazy is the volume and force of the water that
Speaker 2: fifty nine pieces of asphalt lay in equipment could get destroyed.
Speaker 2: So I look at that, and in a normal time,
Speaker 2: he'd be glad to have that kind of job. That's
Speaker 2: a huge job. It's a huge bid. But here he
Speaker 2: gets a bid, no equipment to serve it, and even
Speaker 2: if he could, his men can't get to and from work.
Speaker 1: Right now, Well, yeah, it's going to be a real
Speaker 1: religious situation. That the difference between a rain and a flood.
Speaker 1: You know, as you point out don't use the word flood,
Speaker 1: you know, use don't use the word flood. Yeah, rain
Speaker 1: and wind and everything, but they're going to say that
Speaker 1: it's a flood. That's where the fight is going to be.
Speaker 1: I can see that being really religious. So it's such
Speaker 1: a bad situation. And again it's important to have you
Speaker 1: on so people know this is an ongoing situation. It's
Speaker 1: going to go on for a very very long time
Speaker 1: as we're talking about all these different aspects that are here,
Speaker 1: but it's going to pass out of the news cycle.
Speaker 1: Everybody's going to get interested in politics and all the
Speaker 1: rest of the stuff, and there'll be another storm and
Speaker 1: another hurricane somewhere, just as we see. A lot of
Speaker 1: the tension was redirected away from North Carolina because of
Speaker 1: Milton coming in this line last week, and so that
Speaker 1: type of thing is going to be there. But the
Speaker 1: needs continue on there. And again if people want to
Speaker 1: help it is we love w NC as in western
Speaker 1: North Carolina. We love WNC at give Send go, And
Speaker 1: I guess there's links there to your page there under
Speaker 1: Lee Sales dot com. You've got a page and I
Speaker 1: guess you've got a link back to that from probably
Speaker 1: the easiest way for them to find it is going
Speaker 1: to gift, send go and look at we love w NC.
Speaker 1: It is so wonderful to see people helping other people
Speaker 1: and it's tragic that this has happened, but I think
Speaker 1: that is a silver lining that is there and it's
Speaker 1: important lesson for everybody to see throughout the country. And
Speaker 1: anything else that you would like to say, I mean,
Speaker 1: we've got a little bit more time. What would you
Speaker 1: like to stress to people?
Speaker 2: Well, one thing I would just like to say is
Speaker 2: that it was disturbing to me as somebody who read
Speaker 2: a lot, follow a lot of the information trails, and
Speaker 2: I didn't realize how deep the overall distrust is of
Speaker 2: not just our government, but of our traditional organizations like
Speaker 2: the Red Cross. I mean I watched the Red Cross
Speaker 2: drag their feet coming to town because they said it
Speaker 2: was too dangerous to get here. But then I saw
Speaker 2: the leaked emails from the current administration that said they
Speaker 2: were going to delay their response because it was not safe.
Speaker 2: So I wonder if the Red Cross was following the government,
Speaker 2: but that would explain why nobody trust them. And it's
Speaker 2: just it's a shame that we fall into that as
Speaker 2: a society that we no longer trust our government. I
Speaker 2: certainly don't trust big pharma. I don't trust the school system,
Speaker 2: as you mentioned in your piece before I came on,
Speaker 2: I don't trust most of these relief organizations. And I
Speaker 2: thought that by opening up chance for people to give
Speaker 2: me their donations, that I could fill my truck up
Speaker 2: with some supplies. I did not anticipate that so many
Speaker 2: people said, hey, lady, I saw on the internet in
Speaker 2: a video, you seem more trustworthy than big organizations and FEMA.
Speaker 2: And so when they've sent me these gifts, they've thanked me.
Speaker 2: They know that I'm directing the dollars to actual neighbors,
Speaker 2: and all of them have said, just please keep going
Speaker 2: around FEMA, because they understand that that's the speed is
Speaker 2: for the need. And it's encouraging and discouraging at the
Speaker 2: same time. But then I remember how much my grandmother, Oh,
Speaker 2: she longed for the end times, and I remind myself
Speaker 2: it's a privilege to get to live in them. And
Speaker 2: so all I can do is be a laborer in
Speaker 2: the harvest. And I'm grateful for everybody that's laboring, as
Speaker 2: well those that are doing the helicopter lifts and the
Speaker 2: ATV search and rescues and cutting logs to get people
Speaker 2: out of driveways, and you really do see the best
Speaker 2: in people. And hopefully we as a people will decide
Speaker 2: that we've had enough of the corrupt elites that diminish
Speaker 2: us and we will either put this to rights like
Speaker 2: happened with the people of Israel so long ago, or
Speaker 2: where God's gonna He's gonna have his way. So right,
Speaker 2: I hope everybody in the sound of my voice chooses
Speaker 2: Jesus and chooses to repent before you miss your chance.
Speaker 2: They have to talk that in there.
Speaker 1: Oh, absolutely, absolutely, yeah, And that's the key thing.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: It used to be that it was all about the community,
Speaker 1: about helping neighbors, and as you pointed out, we knew
Speaker 1: who needed help. So you know, once you institutionalize this stuff,
Speaker 1: what you're doing is you're institutionalizing and efficiencies and graft
Speaker 1: and corruption and that type of stuff. And it is
Speaker 1: at the point now where everybody sees these established institutions
Speaker 1: and we don't trust them. That's why it is so
Speaker 1: important for individuals like you to step up and to
Speaker 1: do the right thing. And and it is great to
Speaker 1: see that and You've gotten a good deal of support
Speaker 1: there on gifts and go and so again that it
Speaker 1: is we love w n C is how you can
Speaker 1: keep track of what is happening there, and we've been
Speaker 1: talking to Lee Brown. Thank you so much for what
Speaker 1: you're doing, for stepping up with that. Coming into that
Speaker 1: area truly is amazing, and I know that it is
Speaker 1: very challenging, but it's also very blessing to be able
Speaker 1: to help other people. We don't ever want to be
Speaker 1: in the situation where we need the help, but it
Speaker 1: is wonderful to be able to offer the help. And
Speaker 1: so thank you for what you're doing. Thank you for
Speaker 1: stepping up, and we really do appreciate the example that
Speaker 1: is being set there by all the people voluntarily stepping
Speaker 1: in and helping their neighbor. It's great to see that
Speaker 1: that has not died out in America. It hasn't been
Speaker 1: smothered by this massive bureaucracy of these corrupt institutions that
Speaker 1: we see both public and private. It's great to see
Speaker 1: people just stepping up on the spur of the moment
Speaker 1: and doing this type of thing. Thank you so much
Speaker 1: for what you do. Appreciate it well.
Speaker 2: I appreciate the opportunity. Thank you to you and your
Speaker 2: listeners and viewers.
Speaker 1: Thank you, Thank you. Lee. We're going to take a
Speaker 1: quick break, folks, and we will be right back.
Speaker 4: Stay with us, Liberty, it's your move.
Speaker 1: And now the David Night Show.
Speaker 5: In the Body its alright.
Speaker 1: Joining us now is doctor Jane Ruby. I've had a
Speaker 1: lot of people who've contacted me and said, you guys
Speaker 1: are on the same page. You need to get her
Speaker 1: on and talk. And I'm always happy to get people
Speaker 1: who you know, when we're looking either at politics or
Speaker 1: at the pandemic. Because the pandemic was politics, I was
Speaker 1: happy to have them on. And doctor Jane Ruby has
Speaker 1: a lot of medical experience as well as political experience.
Speaker 1: She is a licensed nurse practitioner. She actually ran clinical
Speaker 1: sites for quite some time and then took a sabbatical
Speaker 1: and went to Washington and worked there, so she knows
Speaker 1: both the politics and the medical stuff. So it's great
Speaker 1: to have her and thank you for joining us. It's
Speaker 1: good to talk to you you too, David.
Speaker 6: I have to say you are definitely one of my
Speaker 6: go to people every day.
Speaker 1: Thank you.
Speaker 6: It's not just the echo chamber. You bring such a
Speaker 6: great new perspective to this. So I'm really thrilled to
Speaker 6: be with you today and yeah, well, thank you appreciate it.
Speaker 1: Tell people what you think about the last four years?
Speaker 1: Is that broad enough? I mean, you know, I'm looking
Speaker 1: at this and yesterday I said, I saw this article, Well,
Speaker 1: what would you have done in Germany in the nineteen thirties?
Speaker 1: I said, you don't even have to think about that.
Speaker 1: What did you do in America or in the UK
Speaker 1: or Canada in the last four years? You know, what
Speaker 1: have you done in the twenty twenties, because that's really
Speaker 1: the the point of testing, you know, to say, if
Speaker 1: you really get this and what did you do? Do
Speaker 1: you go along with it even if you understood it?
Speaker 1: Or did they completely fool you or did they get
Speaker 1: you to comply with it even though you knew what
Speaker 1: was wrong? You know, take a look at that. So
Speaker 1: what do you think about these these last four years?
Speaker 1: And what we just saw at the Republican Convention? Were
Speaker 1: they just kind of seemed to ignore what happened in
Speaker 1: twenty twenty except for the election of course?
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, I mean there was a huge, huge
Speaker 6: elephant in that auditorium at the RNC, and I just
Speaker 6: can't believe the American people. I shouldn't even preface it
Speaker 6: by saying I can't believe because after what I saw
Speaker 6: in twenty twenty and the caving to all of this,
Speaker 6: the masks, those shots, the whole bit by so many
Speaker 6: Americans really stunned me at the time. And it shouldn't
Speaker 6: surprise me anymore that they're allowing themselves to be you know,
Speaker 6: memory hold and they're just so many people are just
Speaker 6: going forward. And here's the thing, David, when I say
Speaker 6: to people, you know, this is crazy. I point out
Speaker 6: things about Trump. He's hiring all the wrong people. Again.
Speaker 6: You know, we saw it in DC in the first term.
Speaker 6: You know, people say to me, well, what are you
Speaker 6: going to do, doctor Jane, You know, go vote for Biden.
Speaker 6: They're missing the whole point. They're missing the whole point
Speaker 6: because you don't have elections. And actually there's a third
Speaker 6: choice between Trump Biden. And the third choice is how
Speaker 6: about holding Trump accountable? How about making him a better candidate? Right,
Speaker 6: I'm sure you agree with that.
Speaker 1: Oh, nobody wants to criticize it, criticize you see what happens.
Speaker 1: I mean, even the guy in the Virginia who was
Speaker 1: head of the Freedom Caucus. Simply for endorsing dysantis. He
Speaker 1: was excommunicated from the Republican Party.
Speaker 6: Right, so much for you know, freedom of thought and
Speaker 6: freedom of speech. But to get back to your original question,
Speaker 6: I mean you you actually touched on I was fascinated
Speaker 6: again by your first segment. You touched on two of
Speaker 6: my favorite topics. If you don't mind, I'll go into
Speaker 6: those sure a little bit, maybe from a you know,
Speaker 6: additional angles. You know the PCR tests. Many people have
Speaker 6: forgotten it. First of all, let me take a broader stand.
Speaker 6: There is no validated test on the planet to diagnose
Speaker 6: any flu or differentiate one flu from another. So people
Speaker 6: go yes, But and I say, well, well whoa bring
Speaker 6: yourself back to the beginning. Let me repeat what I
Speaker 6: just said and try to grasp what I just said.
Speaker 6: When I try to educate people to validate an instrument,
Speaker 6: if I hold up my pen and I say this
Speaker 6: is going to make your eggs tomorrow morning, David, I
Speaker 6: have to test it for validity. Does it make eggs?
Speaker 7: Right?
Speaker 6: I know I'm being a little silly, but we get
Speaker 6: the point across. But the second part of validity studies
Speaker 6: is reliability. Okay, let's say this pen magically gets up
Speaker 6: tomorrow morning it makes David Knight's eggs, But does it
Speaker 6: do it every morning or the majority of mornings? That's
Speaker 6: your reliability. There is none of that testing on this.
Speaker 6: In addition to the inventor carry Mollis as we all
Speaker 6: know by now, who said it's not diagnostic, and you
Speaker 6: did a great job of explaining why you can get
Speaker 6: down to those molecular levels really not seeing anything, which
Speaker 6: is what he was trying to say. But the CDC
Speaker 6: itself in a sleight of hand kind of In twenty
Speaker 6: twenty one, July recalled the PCR and people, people just
Speaker 6: you know, people call me to this day. You know, hey,
Speaker 6: I got sick over the weekend and I got a
Speaker 6: COVID test and it was positive. What, Oh my god, David,
Speaker 6: my head wants to explode.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know, I know, it's right. It's just like that.
Speaker 1: It's as ridiculous as a mask. Got you understand what
Speaker 1: it's about exactly.
Speaker 6: I tried to tell people early on, the only time
Speaker 6: I did work in a hospital, I did take care
Speaker 6: of patients independently. I have assisted in surgeries. My specialty
Speaker 6: was cardiology I assisted in bypassed graphs. The only time
Speaker 6: we wore a mask, or two times in a hospital
Speaker 6: if you're in the o R so in case you
Speaker 6: have a reflexive sneeze, you don't spit into somebody's open guy.
Speaker 6: Or if they were on medications to suppress their immune
Speaker 6: of capabilities because they got an organ transplant. Those are
Speaker 6: the only two times we ever wore a mask because
Speaker 6: we knew that it had no other purpose. So anyway
Speaker 6: to the PCR, and it's the gift that keeps giving because,
Speaker 6: like you said it, without the PCR, you don't have cases.
Speaker 6: You can't gin up H five on one, you can't
Speaker 6: gin up COVID two point three or whatever it's going
Speaker 6: to be. And so that's my little spiel on the PCR.
Speaker 1: And you know, let me just add to you know, Faucci,
Speaker 1: you know, coming from that field, he knew that they
Speaker 1: had a problem in terms of show me this or
Speaker 1: show me that during the real science. And it was
Speaker 1: a perfect answer for that, you know, using it to
Speaker 1: push HIV, which is where the big fight was between
Speaker 1: him and most. But it gave this veneer that you
Speaker 1: could actually observe and do real science with it. And
Speaker 1: that's the fundamental lie that he was able to exploit,
Speaker 1: from AIDS to COVID, that he built his career, and
Speaker 1: he built all of these deceptions on the PCR test
Speaker 1: truly is amazing.
Speaker 6: Yes, yes he did. And a lot of innocent animals
Speaker 6: and millions of innocent people died, especially in third world countries,
Speaker 6: but all over, including in the United States. And just
Speaker 6: to wrap up on the RNC, that was the absurdity
Speaker 6: was that there was no touching on the COVID nineteen
Speaker 6: shots as biological weapons, which has been proven over and
Speaker 6: over again by countless analysts and scientists, the role of
Speaker 6: the DoD You know, in my quest, I put out
Speaker 6: a tweet a while ago, David, and I said, think
Speaker 6: about this, why don't you ask Trump when they gin
Speaker 6: up H five N one and they throw it in
Speaker 6: your face and you create your new panel, what are
Speaker 6: you going to do differently? Because if he says nothing,
Speaker 6: you know you got your deep state guy. He's just
Speaker 6: picking all the wrong people. I know we'll get into
Speaker 6: that in a minute, but I want to touch on
Speaker 6: my second favorite topic that you covered if I could earlier,
Speaker 6: and that was McCullough. I've been on to Peter McCullough
Speaker 6: for over two years. And here's here. You know, my
Speaker 6: dubious distinction is no one. They can come after me, David.
Speaker 6: They can call me names, they can call me fake,
Speaker 6: they can disparage my credentials, but they've never proven me wrong.
Speaker 6: And I called him out two two and a half
Speaker 6: years ago because I was in a private telegram chat
Speaker 6: C nineteen expert group that he created himself, and in
Speaker 6: that chat, David one day, to my astounding, he posted
Speaker 6: a communication to us with some data on nova vacs.
Speaker 6: When nova vacs first came out, right, it's also a
Speaker 6: biological weapon. It gets to the mRNA in your body,
Speaker 6: but through a different mechanism, different story. And I questioned
Speaker 6: in front of everyone, well why are you promoting it's
Speaker 6: not a vaccine and it's another weapon, and boom. I
Speaker 6: was blocked from that group shortly after that. You have
Speaker 6: to understand, we were doing each other's podcasts, we were friendly,
Speaker 6: we were colleagues, so it really was a huge red
Speaker 6: flag for me. There are three problems I have with him.
Speaker 6: First of all, he's taken. If you look at Chuck
Speaker 6: Grassley's Sunshine Act, the website is OpenPayments dot CMS dot gov,
Speaker 6: the government's repository for money. Every time I took a
Speaker 6: physician out in my pharmaceutical role, I was in the
Speaker 6: industry for twenty years, as you probably know, we had
Speaker 6: to file some paperwork with the CMS and we had
Speaker 6: to you know, if I took out doctor Jim Smith
Speaker 6: and it was a two hundred dollars bill, I had
Speaker 6: to file that, so they keep those accumulated. He has
Speaker 6: taken since twenty fifteen five point five million dollars and
Speaker 6: it's not that's in addition to research grants. Now, by comparison,
Speaker 6: the late doctor Zelenko, just as a comparator, in that
Speaker 6: same five year period took about six hundred dollars from
Speaker 6: pharma over over seven or eight years. That's like a
Speaker 6: sandwich a year, right, So that's number one big farm,
Speaker 6: and you know they expect something for that money, as
Speaker 6: you know, David. So what has he done. He's pushed
Speaker 6: a very dangerous ant, supposed anti viral called paslavit. Paslavid
Speaker 6: is two anti virals, norma trelvir and written avir. Written
Speaker 6: vir has a black box warning and has had it
Speaker 6: for years by the FDA. It's highest warning level for
Speaker 6: a drug before they pull it right, and so it's
Speaker 6: very dangerous. And you have Albert Borla coming on promoting
Speaker 6: off label, saying, yeah, if it doesn't work the first time,
Speaker 6: take another round of it. Where are your studies for that?
Speaker 8: There?
Speaker 1: Taking? Tell you over taking it.
Speaker 6: Keep filling that scrap you'll be fine.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 6: And that's against the law, by the way, that's off
Speaker 6: label promotion by a commercial agent of a company. In
Speaker 6: contrast to how I knew there was a problem in
Speaker 6: twenty twenty, I'm a prescriber as a nurse practitioner, so
Speaker 6: I understood the lie right away when they said, well,
Speaker 6: I got sick myself, and I said to my doctor
Speaker 6: in March of twenty twenty, okay, just phone in the hydroxychloroquin.
Speaker 6: You know, we weren't aware of ivermectin at the time
Speaker 6: and its effectiveness. And he said to me, I can't
Speaker 6: do that. I'll lose my license. What there's no law
Speaker 6: that prohibit it's a prescriber from prescribing off label. The
Speaker 6: illegality comes in, of course, when a company, whether you're
Speaker 6: on the medical side or the commercial side, promoting something
Speaker 6: other than that for which the drug was approved. They
Speaker 6: can't companies can't do that, right, So he pushes Packsloviy.
Speaker 6: He's got a protocol, David for COVID, right, like you
Speaker 6: said in your first segment. He loves that narrative, that vaccine,
Speaker 6: virus and narrative, so he promotes. And then the NATO
Speaker 6: Kain story. It's associated with fibrint. There aren't there no proof.
Speaker 6: And by the way, David, like you mentioned in the
Speaker 6: first segment, when he throws those studies at you, I
Speaker 6: want to tell the general public, please don't be intimidated
Speaker 6: by that, because half of what he throws at you,
Speaker 6: if you really read beyond the title, is like you said,
Speaker 6: a facsimile of a segment or a sequence. It has
Speaker 6: nothing to do. And where's your instrument? I said to him,
Speaker 6: where's the instrument? Remember good science, you measure before, then
Speaker 6: you give your own powder, then you measure it after. Right,
Speaker 6: where's your instrument that you're using, Peter to measure your
Speaker 6: pre and post spike proteins and a landline plane. Here
Speaker 6: if they've never proven that this virus exists, and I'm
Speaker 6: all about that, I have not seen it proven to me,
Speaker 6: and its whole and pure form from an ill individual
Speaker 6: then how do you believe in the spike protein? How
Speaker 6: do you believe in a portion of something for which
Speaker 6: the whole has never been demonstrated?
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, it absolutely is amazing. And when I
Speaker 1: looked at the way they were describing the mr and
Speaker 1: A at the very beginning, and it's like, oh, okay,
Speaker 1: so it's going to go in here and it's going
Speaker 1: to start replicating itself, and where's the off switch? It
Speaker 1: sounds awful lot like cancer, you know, and what is
Speaker 1: this thing that is making in your body? But that
Speaker 1: was their whole narrative, you know, that's the way MODERNA
Speaker 1: described it. It's like, yeah, we're gonna we can do
Speaker 1: this really fast, President Trump, because we'll turn people's bodies
Speaker 1: into manufacturing facilities. And it's like, okay, let's stop right there.
Speaker 1: That's enough for a moment.
Speaker 6: And here's the most egregious thing. His latest stunt promoting
Speaker 6: another RNA synthetic lab in Silico created god knows what
Speaker 6: it is to go in after the next the previous one,
Speaker 6: and people are saying to it, what is that?
Speaker 1: What is that? That is the other m RNA that
Speaker 1: he's promoting.
Speaker 6: It's called si RNA and it stands for sit down, everybody,
Speaker 6: small interfering. Isn't that convenient? And it's so genius that
Speaker 6: the first one was not genius and it was able.
Speaker 6: This this one, though, David is able to go target
Speaker 6: what the first one did and then reverse the damage.
Speaker 6: That's a fairy tale. There's no science behind that. And
Speaker 6: where are the double blind will seeble controlled trials before
Speaker 6: and after for this si r NA. He is so
Speaker 6: in the thick of farmer's grip it's not even funny.
Speaker 1: Well, I had a big problem with him and anybody
Speaker 1: who is promoting this this Lablak theory, you know, or
Speaker 1: deliberately leaking it out scare people to gain a function stuff,
Speaker 1: because as far as I'm concerned, that is a red
Speaker 1: herring to keep people away from looking at the effects
Speaker 1: of the vaccine. What do you think about that?
Speaker 6: I think it's one hundred percent true. There are actually
Speaker 6: two biological weapons. One is used innermntently and that was
Speaker 6: what was created, I believe from the paperwork and the
Speaker 6: documentation by at Fort Dietrich by the DoD and they
Speaker 6: use it to drop I don't know when an aerosol
Speaker 6: way or something to show pockets of illness. Then they
Speaker 6: create these cases and everything, but the major biological weapon.
Speaker 6: If you look at the work of Catherine Watt, Sasha
Speaker 6: a lot of pove and by the way, doctor Mike
Speaker 6: Eden is a mentor of mine as well. He's the
Speaker 6: head of their investigative group called Team Enigma. This Pfizer
Speaker 6: even admitted it in the motion to dismiss argument and
Speaker 6: Theacks Brockjacks and whistleblowercase. Hey, we weren't making a pharmaceutical product.
Speaker 6: We were making a military prototype. So there's no labilyeral.
Speaker 6: Your DoD which is a reco operation just laundering, in
Speaker 6: laundering and laundering money is actually produced these shots and
Speaker 6: the material. And here's a scary part, David, we have
Speaker 6: more than just h fight on one. You had Albert
Speaker 6: Burl a year and a half ago. I tried to
Speaker 6: warn the public admitting in a Davos interview that the
Speaker 6: fall of twenty twenty three would have seasonal flu shots
Speaker 6: made entirely of this mRNA poison and god knows what
Speaker 6: else it's in in injection form, botox, ladies, fillers, childhood schedule.
Speaker 6: They don't even hide it. It's in the childhood schedule
Speaker 6: multiple multiple times. So this is a very frightening time
Speaker 6: for people not to be paying attention.
Speaker 1: It surely is, you know. And when you look at it,
Speaker 1: everything is going into everything is going into drugs to
Speaker 1: control all the stuff about Ozmpic and everything in wegavy
Speaker 1: and you know, well, you can't control our hunger. So
Speaker 1: let's come up with an injection. What's in that? You know.
Speaker 1: It's absolutely amazing to see how trusting people are. They
Speaker 1: trust the government, they trust the press, they trust the science,
Speaker 1: which is what you're supposed to do, right, just trust
Speaker 1: the science, yell.
Speaker 6: And let me bring it back to President Trump and JD.
Speaker 6: Vance really quickly. The guy is entrudged in numerous companies,
Speaker 6: by the way, with his buddy Vivic. Vivic and his
Speaker 6: brother Shankar Ramaswami's Mammy Ramaswami provided them with all these opportunities,
Speaker 6: and you have they're all in together and they're making
Speaker 6: millions right now in companies that are going to generate
Speaker 6: more mRNA David, where are we going?
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, oh, it's really it really concerns me when
Speaker 1: you look at Peter Teel and Peter Tiel and Elon
Speaker 1: Musk are really excellent at manipulating the Conservatives. You know,
Speaker 1: you had Teal come out and say, yeah, I don't
Speaker 1: like those people at Davos, and yet he's a permanent
Speaker 1: fixture at Bilderberg, you know, he Alex carp and these
Speaker 1: other people like that, they're always there. And when you
Speaker 1: look at what they want to do in terms of technocracy,
Speaker 1: I think one of the key things is people just
Speaker 1: don't understand what the technocracy is. They want to try
Speaker 1: to pigeonhole people into some categories political categories that they
Speaker 1: already know about. Oh well, their conservative or their socialist,
Speaker 1: or their Marxist or this or that are a populist.
Speaker 1: But the technocracy thing is a completely different deal. And
Speaker 1: what confuses them, I think is that it's got you know,
Speaker 1: it's got a little bit of this, and it's got
Speaker 1: a little bit of that, but it's got its own thing.
Speaker 1: And you know, these people seek to rule the world
Speaker 1: through their technological prowess and their inventions and that type
Speaker 1: of thing. And it is a very dangerous, i would
Speaker 1: say satanic move to think that they're going to become
Speaker 1: like God, they're going to live forever, They're going to
Speaker 1: transfer themselves in machines. I mean, that's where they ultimately go.
Speaker 1: Peter til is right there with Singularity. It is absolutely
Speaker 1: amazing to see jd. Vance is now this acolyte of
Speaker 1: this guy who really you know, put him in, put
Speaker 1: him into politics, put him into venture capital and all
Speaker 1: this other kind of stuff. And Peter Till is a
Speaker 1: guy who created the Singularity Foundation. It's just amazing, unbelievable.
Speaker 6: Yeah, it is amazing that people, even though we've tried
Speaker 6: to make the connections for them, that the American people,
Speaker 6: it is true. Trump was truly right in twenty fifteen
Speaker 6: or twenty sixteen when he said I could step out
Speaker 6: in Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody and they'd still love
Speaker 6: me and they defend me. And you know what, He's
Speaker 6: been proven right over and over and over again. They
Speaker 6: just can't get off the sicophant to look. And I've said,
Speaker 6: what is he going to do differently if you won't
Speaker 6: address the issue now of the way warp Speed went
Speaker 6: by the way. I don't know if people know the
Speaker 6: state of but warp Speed is in full operation. It
Speaker 6: is offices and resources and budgets and it's humming along.
Speaker 6: Where do you think it's going?
Speaker 1: Yeah, all the scary you know, all this stuff that
Speaker 1: they put it in place, and it is just it
Speaker 1: continues if you don't root it out. It's like this
Speaker 1: weed and it's putting down deeper and deeper roots and
Speaker 1: it's going to just sprout up in a big way.
Speaker 1: And that's the way all of these bureaucratic programs are
Speaker 1: once you put something in. You know, going back to Reagan,
Speaker 1: when he got in, he's the Department of Education was
Speaker 1: created during the election year of nineteen eighty. Well, I'm
Speaker 1: going to get rid of that. He didn't get rid
Speaker 1: of it, and by the time he left it was gigantic.
Speaker 1: And so we're going to see that with these guys
Speaker 1: that just headed off to each other in kind of
Speaker 1: a professional wrestling tag team match, isn't it.
Speaker 6: Well, when you think about it, I mean we currently
Speaker 6: have I have military intelligence friends that are on our
Speaker 6: side that have said to me for a year now, Jane,
Speaker 6: there are people inside the West Wing, the Executive Office Building,
Speaker 6: which is on the White House grounds and in the
Speaker 6: White House that literally have offices that are from the
Speaker 6: CCP that are the domestic enemies are just as dangerous
Speaker 6: the Peter Thiels, in my estimation and one of the
Speaker 6: thought I had about Elon Musk. I don't know if
Speaker 6: you've thought about this, but the fact that starlink is
Speaker 6: so available in Sheep and everybody wants it in their house,
Speaker 6: And I'm thinking to myself, guy, Starlink, neurallink. Maybe if
Speaker 6: you put this thing in your house, what's the same.
Speaker 6: Maybe it does something with your wife. Why would you
Speaker 6: want to take the.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's funny when I when I saw that and
Speaker 1: saw the links and everything, it made me think. I
Speaker 1: haven't talked about it, but it is like a predictive program.
Speaker 1: What was it, Carl Travis? Was that the Kingsman or
Speaker 1: something where at one point they flipped the switch on
Speaker 1: the satellite thing and you know, everybody flips out and
Speaker 1: goes nuts and starts killing each other. You know. And
Speaker 1: of course they begin all of this stuff when they're
Speaker 1: in a church, so that the hero has to fight
Speaker 1: off and kill these people in church. You know, they
Speaker 1: just instantly the flip, the switches flipped, and they start
Speaker 1: attacking him. Yeah, it's funny how they come up with
Speaker 1: this crazy stuff. And I tell people all the time
Speaker 1: that the big mistake that we make is that we
Speaker 1: I guess we'd say, if we were George W. Bush
Speaker 1: would say, we misunderestimate the the technology these people have
Speaker 1: and how evil they are. You know, they are morally
Speaker 1: capable of anything, and they're pretty close to technologically capable
Speaker 1: of anything, and so that's the that's well what we're
Speaker 1: up against.
Speaker 6: I think, Yeah, I totally agree with you. It's difficult
Speaker 6: to strike a balance between thinking, look, they had the
Speaker 6: military had the Internet years before we even knew it existed.
Speaker 6: So it's kind of a fear factor of oh my gosh,
Speaker 6: what do they have now that we don't even know about.
Speaker 6: But I want to balance that with maybe they have
Speaker 6: less than we think they do, and maybe it's they
Speaker 6: confabulate it with the fear factor we've seen so much.
Speaker 6: But it just it just concerns me and going into
Speaker 6: this election, I don't believe. I've said many times in
Speaker 6: my social media we don't have elections anymore. And here's
Speaker 6: one of the key of features. You know, Trump got
Speaker 6: taken out by three things right, technically, internet connected voting machines,
Speaker 6: two weeks of early voting, in those two thousand meal dropboxes.
Speaker 6: He never said a word about them. Right in this
Speaker 6: election cycle, the three things that took them out, and
Speaker 6: those three things are still in place in most counties.
Speaker 6: We have twenty thousand drop boxes in Palm Beach County alone,
Speaker 6: sitting in front of DMVs and other public realism. I'm
Speaker 6: looking at these things, going why is this still here?
Speaker 1: Oh? Yeah, all this stuff is still there? And what
Speaker 1: do you think? I mean, I'm looking at this and
Speaker 1: the passions are being escalated on both sides now, especially
Speaker 1: after there was, you know, the shooting of the Trump rally.
Speaker 1: I don't know what to call it, but after there
Speaker 1: was a shooting of the Trump rally, everybody is like, Okay,
Speaker 1: that's it, and they are just ready to have a
Speaker 1: war if they lose. And that's why I've been describing
Speaker 1: Trump as as kind of the Mason Dixon line for
Speaker 1: a new civil war. Both sides want to fight over
Speaker 1: him if he doesn't win. Yeah, I'm concerned about what
Speaker 1: do you think about that? I mean, you know, they
Speaker 1: could easily manipulate us into a civil war just by
Speaker 1: manipulating the election, which is a very concerning thing because
Speaker 1: we know how they manipulate the.
Speaker 6: Election and a civil war, you know, massive civil unrest
Speaker 6: gives them exactly the excuse. They need for a more
Speaker 6: blatant I say, more blatant martial law and lock down. Hey,
Speaker 6: they're not going to get us to do it for
Speaker 6: a virus. Again, they know we're not going to go
Speaker 6: for it, even people that are not completely aware. But
Speaker 6: so they have to go about it in a different way.
Speaker 6: We have no excuse or we have no other option.
Speaker 6: You're rioting in the streets. We have to protect people.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 6: Again it's always under protecting people. But you know, David,
Speaker 6: I got to bring up that ear bandage. Can I
Speaker 6: just say a word about it?
Speaker 9: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've got my doubts as well. What do you
Speaker 1: think about the air bandage?
Speaker 6: First of all, if your ear got grazed, and there's
Speaker 6: two stories it got grazed, there was so much blood
Speaker 6: that it was all over. But if it got grazed,
Speaker 6: what do you need that giant batch for? You need
Speaker 6: the patch because there's nothing wrong with your ear exactly.
Speaker 1: But you got people out there in the audience they're
Speaker 1: wearing the patch and on it says fight fight fight.
Speaker 1: They wrote that put a piece of paper on their
Speaker 1: air says fight fight fight. I look at it. There
Speaker 1: was somebody who did a testa and these guys were,
Speaker 1: you know, all about Trump, and you know, they were
Speaker 1: not trying to debunk Trump at all. But what they
Speaker 1: had was a head that had this gel like material
Speaker 1: that was like human flesh. They would use it for
Speaker 1: ballistics and stuff like that, and the skeleton that you
Speaker 1: could see inside the head. And they put a red
Speaker 1: magat cap on it, right, and so, uh so they've
Speaker 1: got this and they're you know, they get a little
Speaker 1: bit closer range so they can actually make this shot
Speaker 1: and they get a shot in the ear and it
Speaker 1: and they come back and go, wow. I was surprised
Speaker 1: because they had a very very fast camera that was
Speaker 1: on it, so you could see this bullet in slow
Speaker 1: motion going through it and it opened up a big hole.
Speaker 1: And they surprised that the day was that it did.
Speaker 1: And it's like, yeah, and I'm looking at these pictures
Speaker 1: and I see red, but I don't see any hole
Speaker 1: or anything torn or anything missing. As the bullet hitting
Speaker 1: his ear. It really uh you know, like I said,
Speaker 1: I don't know what to call this thing. And we've
Speaker 1: got a lot of different theories out there about a
Speaker 1: lot of different things. But I got my doubts about
Speaker 1: all of it. I'm just concerned about how it's going
Speaker 1: to be used, and how it's being used is to
Speaker 1: really again ramp up everybody around Trump for and against
Speaker 1: and things like that, you know, And it's and so
Speaker 1: this whole election when we talk about election corruption, I
Speaker 1: used to be involved in third party politics, and so
Speaker 1: I know about the ballot when everybody was talking about
Speaker 1: and said, well, look, you know he put the vote
Speaker 1: by mail stuff in, and you know, we knew about
Speaker 1: the vulnerabilities with machines and the internet. We could have
Speaker 1: done something about it. We didn't. And then we add
Speaker 1: this new thing about that. But I said, all the
Speaker 1: election corruption begins with the ballot. Anal, look at what
Speaker 1: is happening with a ballot. All these people who voted
Speaker 1: in the primaries, and of course they did anything they
Speaker 1: could to shut down the primaries. Now they're just going
Speaker 1: to overturn all that and they're going to do their
Speaker 1: own thing in a couple of weeks, just hand select candidates,
Speaker 1: because it is a selection. It's not an e election,
Speaker 1: not at all.
Speaker 6: And I mean, if anybody thinks there are real elections
Speaker 6: since what you witnessed in twenty twenty, you just aren't
Speaker 6: paying attention, and I knew something was very wrong. I'd
Speaker 6: been very devoted to Trump as a candidate as a
Speaker 6: president in the prior and I knew something was wrong.
Speaker 6: On the five o'clock on January sixth, and I'll tell
Speaker 6: you why he came out. I call it the Isis speech.
Speaker 6: You know, you know when you get they got caught
Speaker 6: by Isis and they threw an American in like a jumpsuit,
Speaker 6: and the person would stand there and say, I'm Jim
Speaker 6: Smith and I hate America, and I'm you know, they
Speaker 6: were under duress. He just looked. He had that black
Speaker 6: coat on. He was in front of the Rose Garden
Speaker 6: and he said, look, we know it was stolen, but
Speaker 6: you got to go home now. And I'm thinking got
Speaker 6: to go home now. Our country was just stolen and
Speaker 6: a coup. Why would we go home. I'm not saying violence.
Speaker 6: I'm saying whatever, but have a different solution. And if
Speaker 6: you thought you if you believed you won, David, if
Speaker 6: you believed you won from the people, we the people
Speaker 6: in the United States the presidency, would you have ever
Speaker 6: walked out of that building. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. And
Speaker 6: I'll tell you the other thing that made me suspicious
Speaker 6: about this event with the ear shooting is look, he's
Speaker 6: been attacked before, and you've seen him taken off stage.
Speaker 6: They immediately surround that. He didn't come back on after
Speaker 6: that one time where they took him off at the
Speaker 6: back of the stage, he didn't come back and yeah,
Speaker 6: raw rah no, they whisked him away and that was
Speaker 6: the end of it. This one so strange. You're gonna
Speaker 6: raise your arm Reagan style and expose your trunk in
Speaker 6: your underarm where they can get into your heart with
Speaker 6: a shot. I don't think so they knew he wasn't
Speaker 6: in danger, David, so I just wanted to mention that
Speaker 6: to him.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. It was kind of funny watching Bill Maher saying,
Speaker 1: you know, wow, look at that. He's a luckiest guy
Speaker 1: in the world. And he was serious about he wasn't
Speaker 1: really being cynical about it, but he says, he gets
Speaker 1: up there and he does this, you know, fight, fight, fight,
Speaker 1: and he goes, that's amazing. He goes, take one, we
Speaker 1: got it. You know this looks like and I said, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's what that was my thought exactly. It was almost
Speaker 1: like they rehearsed it. Take one, We're done. You know
Speaker 1: it was. It was amazing. Yea, actually, well your point.
Speaker 6: I absolutely agree. I'm concerned about how it's being used
Speaker 6: and going to be used going forward. They've got them
Speaker 6: locked up, those sickophants.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it is. It is strange, and they cannot
Speaker 1: It's the you know, when all the stuff started back
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty, I said, you know, the entire country
Speaker 1: has become OCD. They've scared everybody to death. Nobody wanted
Speaker 1: to touch a you know, the pump and the gas,
Speaker 1: you know, put the gas in their car. You know,
Speaker 1: everybody's afraid to even do that. I said, the entire
Speaker 1: nation has become psychotic with this OCD stuff. And we
Speaker 1: have this situation with the people who are so focused
Speaker 1: on Trump and they cannot make these connections. You know,
Speaker 1: they absolutely hate the vaccine, but they can't and won't
Speaker 1: connect it to him. It's an amazing double think, isn't it.
Speaker 6: It is an incredible double think. The excuse is that
Speaker 6: people will come out actually show the pathology of their
Speaker 6: inability to make the connections. Like for example, when people say, oh,
Speaker 6: he was not telling you to take the shots. When
Speaker 6: he told you to take the shots, he was telling
Speaker 6: you to think, look between the lines and don't take
Speaker 6: the shots. Go take Ivermectin. Well that's like four leaps.
Speaker 6: I don't even know how you get there. But it
Speaker 6: is such as an incessant, just burning desire to cover
Speaker 6: for this man. Even when he starts to talk about
Speaker 6: making Larry Fink, the CEO of Black Rock, his treasury.
Speaker 1: Secretary, well he was going to be Hillary's a treasury secretary,
Speaker 1: you know, when she was so far out in front
Speaker 1: in twenty sixteen, they said, you know, they were talking
Speaker 1: about how they're going to fill out her cabinet, and
Speaker 1: it was going to be Larry Fink was going to
Speaker 1: be treasury secretary, just like for Trump. That's why I
Speaker 1: say there's no difference between these people that you're going
Speaker 1: to get the same government, because the government is going
Speaker 1: to be the personnel, are going to be the policy,
Speaker 1: and you put these people in, you're going to get
Speaker 1: the policy of Black Rock and Larry Fink. Whether it's
Speaker 1: Trump upfront or whether it's Hillary, it just makes it
Speaker 1: easier for them to control people. I've told these people
Speaker 1: that when we talk about the Ivermectin thing, well, you know,
Speaker 1: he tried to tell us about ivermcten. I said, well,
Speaker 1: why didn't he manufacture it? Look at all the trouble
Speaker 1: they went to to manufacture the ventilators and they were
Speaker 1: killing people. He could have ivermectin was cheap to make,
Speaker 1: and they could you know, and it's not patented anymore.
Speaker 1: He could have, first of all, could have used as
Speaker 1: power say nobody is going to stop you from getting
Speaker 1: a prescription filled from a doctor. Didn't do that. But
Speaker 1: if he wants to take this proactive approach and make
Speaker 1: remedies some of the federal government, I don't know where
Speaker 1: you find that in the Constitution, But if he wants
Speaker 1: to do that, then do it with ivermecten. But he didn't.
Speaker 1: He didn't do it with HGQ either.
Speaker 6: Very disappointing, very disappointing, and in terms of surrounding himself
Speaker 6: with the wrong people. We saw this in twenty seventeen.
Speaker 6: It was such a disappointment. After his inauguration, I wrote
Speaker 6: an article. I remember the website great Again dot gov
Speaker 6: where everybody was so thrilled he was in. He said,
Speaker 6: they said President Trump wants to use all of the
Speaker 6: loyalists to come in, and a lot of these people
Speaker 6: got appointments in the administration. And then they started contacting
Speaker 6: me because I had a little podcast in DC, and
Speaker 6: they said, doctor Jane, the holdovers are the Obama managers.
Speaker 6: They're still here and they're writing us up and firing us.
Speaker 6: So I wrote an article. Great, and then they said, oh,
Speaker 6: we lost the database. Remember that, the Shawn Spicer database.
Speaker 6: I mean I wrote a second article saying, hey, loyalists,
Speaker 6: you're fired, because really, anybody who was loyal to him.
Speaker 6: When I was in the Office of Presidential Correspondence in
Speaker 6: his administration, I would say, oh, my gosh, isn't this great?
Speaker 6: President Trump? We got somebody in the way, and a
Speaker 6: lot of them were from the Bush you know, era,
Speaker 6: and the Obama era, and they just looked at me,
Speaker 6: and these were Republicans and whatever, and they looked at
Speaker 6: me and they said, yeah, yeah, that's great. And they
Speaker 6: walked down the hall I worked in the EEO B
Speaker 6: and I thought, why aren't they happy like me?
Speaker 1: Yeah, because they realized that we got taxation without representation,
Speaker 1: regulation with that representation. That's what's happening in Washington with
Speaker 1: a bureaucracy. It's permanently there. Yeah. You know, when you
Speaker 1: look at all this stuff and people, you know, he's
Speaker 1: trying to warn us, he's trying to get us the
Speaker 1: good stuff. I mean, that was the issues that I
Speaker 1: had in Info Wars. Why things blew up there? You know,
Speaker 1: I was going to tell people that Trump's got another shot,
Speaker 1: you know, and it's the good shot, and all this
Speaker 1: other kind of stuff. It's crazy. And then when you
Speaker 1: look at January the sixth, you know, it was December
Speaker 1: the fourteenth, it'd already had the Electoral College votes sent in,
Speaker 1: and at that point, you know, they could have done something,
Speaker 1: as I've said many times in the audience, they could
Speaker 1: have done something at the state legislatures, but they didn't.
Speaker 1: And so at that point it really was it really
Speaker 1: was too late. But the whole thing, the whole genesis
Speaker 1: of this is just based on such incredible lies. You know,
Speaker 1: just a couple of days after the election, and even
Speaker 1: see Bennon talking about it to that group of people
Speaker 1: with the Chinese billionaire Guo telling them, yeah, on October
Speaker 1: thirty first, he said, yeah, when it happens, we're just
Speaker 1: going to tell everybody we want. And so that's the
Speaker 1: kind of thing that I'm concerned about, is that this
Speaker 1: election is going to be used to push us into
Speaker 1: more open conflict because they know the season that we're in,
Speaker 1: and most people don't. Everybody talks about millennial this and
Speaker 1: boom er that and all the rest of the stuff.
Speaker 1: But the people came up with a term millennial and
Speaker 1: gen Z and gen X and everything. They had a
Speaker 1: very good theory about every eighty years everything turns around.
Speaker 1: And we're in the center of that, right, and we've
Speaker 1: only got about another four or five years for this
Speaker 1: stuff to be finished. And they're looking at all the
Speaker 1: institutions being changed, and I think that's why we're seeing
Speaker 1: so much chaos and why everything is being thrown out there.
Speaker 1: They understand, as Fauci did when he said in October
Speaker 1: twenty nineteen, how are we going to get everybody to
Speaker 1: take a vaccine? He was asked at Milkin Institute, and
Speaker 1: he said, well, we do it from the inside. We
Speaker 1: do it with chaos, and we do it ineratively. That's
Speaker 1: everything that they're doing right now. They're deliberately creating chaos
Speaker 1: or the inside, and they're continually escalating that chaos.
Speaker 6: Yeah, you know, you've often talked about the lockstep nature
Speaker 6: of this and that it goes across everything. One of
Speaker 6: the most the things I've been most outspoken about, and
Speaker 6: I've been unequivocal about it, it is the Congress. And
Speaker 6: when I say all five hundred and thirty five, I
Speaker 6: don't care who has an affection for Thomas Massey. I've
Speaker 6: already tussled with him and I've chanced because he's still
Speaker 6: in the position. Anybody who stays there, it's like the
Speaker 6: nurses who stayed in the hospitals and the doctors. You
Speaker 6: are enabling this big, gigantic system to continue to kill people.
Speaker 6: Whether you're doing it yourself physically or not, you are
Speaker 6: enabling the system. And even though a few of them
Speaker 6: raw raw. And I've gotten into private email tussles with
Speaker 6: Senator Ron Johnson. Happy to show those because they're actually
Speaker 6: public information. In my opinion, it was an official email,
Speaker 6: you know, by a government official where he feigned indignation,
Speaker 6: and I said, you're only using this for your next
Speaker 6: reelection campaign. You may talk and have all these hearings,
Speaker 6: like you know Marjory Trader Green and some of these
Speaker 6: other people you know who likes to stand in her bikini,
Speaker 6: but you're not going to do anything. You could have
Speaker 6: hauled this company, Feizer or Journal, all these companies in
Speaker 6: you could tie them up in discovery. There's a lot
Speaker 6: you can do, even as one, you know, senator or
Speaker 6: Representative David I tell people, don't even look to Congress.
Speaker 6: I told Brad Miller the Military Accountability Project friends of mine.
Speaker 6: I love my military. It's one of the reasons I
Speaker 6: came out in this whole thing four years ago. I've said, stop,
Speaker 6: you know, getting gaslighted by Congress, because they're going to
Speaker 6: take you to a few parties on the hill. I've
Speaker 6: been there, done that, selfies with famous people, and you're
Speaker 6: going to go home. They're not going to do a
Speaker 6: damn thing about the military that are still under mandates
Speaker 6: in many areas of the military, and you know all that.
Speaker 6: But this this is a big concern.
Speaker 1: And yeah, I always saw that with Trey Goudi, you know,
Speaker 1: it's like, okay, so he's got all this, we have
Speaker 1: ample I would it's about what happened with ben Gazians
Speaker 1: that they do nothing about it. But he gets all this,
Speaker 1: he gets grandstands with all this stuff, and then he
Speaker 1: gets a talk show gig at Fox News, and you know,
Speaker 1: Jim Jordan, another one of these, Oh, let's hold a
Speaker 1: hearing about that, and they'll never do anything. As you
Speaker 1: point out, they could tie them up in a lot
Speaker 1: of different ways. They could cut the money to these people,
Speaker 1: but they don't. That's their key weapon, and they keep
Speaker 1: funding everything, including you know, foreign wars and all the
Speaker 1: rest of the stuff that they complain about. All they
Speaker 1: do is show these have these hearings. The argument that
Speaker 1: you made in terms of enabling them as one that
Speaker 1: I've actually made about schools for example. You know, it's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: we got good teachers, and unfortunately, many times what happens
Speaker 1: is these these you know, when you have a good
Speaker 1: teacher in school that gets people let their guard down.
Speaker 1: It's like, well, you know, yeah, but maybe they are
Speaker 1: really an excellent teacher, but they can't really change that
Speaker 1: institution that's there. Instead, what it does is it builds
Speaker 1: people's confidence and something that is really going to rip
Speaker 1: their kids apart. And so I understand which argument is
Speaker 1: there about even.
Speaker 6: No excuse, Yeah, no excuse you stay in Congress or
Speaker 6: enabling it every congress before them. The disillusionment has been
Speaker 6: so real, David. You know, Reagan was a beloved will
Speaker 6: just take him as an example, such a beloved president,
Speaker 6: but like you say, he blowed it up, you know, government,
Speaker 6: just like the rest of them. He gave us in
Speaker 6: pharma immunity he gave us. He put that burden of
Speaker 6: compensation on the back of the American people. Despicable because
Speaker 6: he cave to the pharma, you know Trump. I mean,
Speaker 6: it just goes on and on and on. It's every president,
Speaker 6: it's every Congress. But we're living with this Congress right now.
Speaker 6: And I just can't stand people like, you know, just
Speaker 6: not realizing. I mean, you know, it's Trey Goudy's I
Speaker 6: used to say, all hearings, no action, right like Texas,
Speaker 6: you got all all had no cattle. You look rich,
Speaker 6: but you're not really doing anything. You don't have any cattle.
Speaker 6: And this is going to go on and on and
Speaker 6: and you know, David, I take the sling and arrows
Speaker 6: every day. You're this, you're fake, you're that, okay. And
Speaker 6: then eventually when they see that Congress has allowed this
Speaker 6: and they've been you know, by the way, they should
Speaker 6: be incensed that Congress exempted themselves from these shots. Hello,
Speaker 6: and their three thousand staffers and eight hundred what is
Speaker 6: it eight hundred thousand Chinese Exchange students. How interesting.
Speaker 1: Well, I didn't know that. I didn't know about the
Speaker 1: Chinese Exchange students.
Speaker 6: Yep, there you go, wow, wow crazy.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, that's the smoking gun right there. So what
Speaker 1: do you tell people?
Speaker 7: You know?
Speaker 1: Where do you you know? We don't want to leave
Speaker 1: people hopeless with all this stuff. So what do you
Speaker 1: tell people to focus on? I tell people, well, I'll
Speaker 1: let you tell people what you focus on.
Speaker 6: Well, I mean, like I said, you're my go to person,
Speaker 6: and everything I share with the public is literally a
Speaker 6: composite of people like you, good patriots, good Americans, and
Speaker 6: people who are intelligent enough to figure this out. And
Speaker 6: you're right. I don't want to leave people with doom
Speaker 6: and gloom. I passion up the negative, the scary stuff,
Speaker 6: because because people need to wake up, they need to
Speaker 6: really stop going to Johnny's soccer game and not giving
Speaker 6: this more thought. But here's what I tell people. Okay,
Speaker 6: then this none of us is going to change anything
Speaker 6: at the federal level. It's such a behemoth, it's such
Speaker 6: a dangerous monster. We are being run by foreign and
Speaker 6: domestic enemies. There's every bit of evidence to show this.
Speaker 6: It's all out there if you just take the time
Speaker 6: to do it. So what does that mean? We all
Speaker 6: need to stay healthy mentally, physically, keep our families going
Speaker 6: because we need to survive in order to thrive. On
Speaker 6: the other side of this, I am hopeful David Hope
Speaker 6: is not a plan. I'm very much focused at what
Speaker 6: I'm doing in my spheres. I have military intelligence, I
Speaker 6: have political intelligence, I have all kinds of resources that
Speaker 6: I put together every day. And what we're all doing
Speaker 6: and talking about is, yes, I'm still going to help
Speaker 6: educate the public and do my thing a little bit,
Speaker 6: but I'm going to focus more on the solutions, and
Speaker 6: for me, the solutions start local. I've said to people,
Speaker 6: it's very basic, and I don't like when people throw
Speaker 6: out meat and say, oh, it's local. Start there. So
Speaker 6: let me give a couple of pieces of that. Look
Speaker 6: around you now. I know it sounds silly. Who's got
Speaker 6: an American flag on their home or apartment in your neighborhood?
Speaker 6: Who is of like mind that you already know in
Speaker 6: your family you have people who hate you now because
Speaker 6: of this, and people who are of like mind. Your neighbors,
Speaker 6: your family, get your community, get your barriers, set up,
Speaker 6: not necessarily a fence, but hey, look if stuff goes south. Look,
Speaker 6: I'm a nurse practitioner, you're a carpenter, you're a loot. Okay,
Speaker 6: we're going to support each other and create an infrastructure
Speaker 6: parallel so that we can stay off of their grid
Speaker 6: as much as possible. Off the grid is independent and
Speaker 6: you can protect yourselves. Maybe we won't see it in
Speaker 6: our lifetime. I don't think i'll see it. I'm way
Speaker 6: too old, but I do believe that in it'll take
Speaker 6: a generation or two and people will look back and say, boy,
Speaker 6: they were right, they understood what we're doing. I'm glad
Speaker 6: we followed their lead because you need to survive this
Speaker 6: oncoming thing that's happening in our government, in our country
Speaker 6: in order to get to the other side. So yes,
Speaker 6: you need to ask yourselves and your family if we
Speaker 6: couldn't get to an on grid store for twelve months,
Speaker 6: let's go the worst possible that you could think of,
Speaker 6: what would we eat? Where would we get the intermittent
Speaker 6: power electricity? What do we have to protect our resources
Speaker 6: that we were smart enough? Right, So you better have
Speaker 6: some firearms, you better have some perimeter and those kinds
Speaker 6: of things that gives people working things to do that
Speaker 6: we'll come back to serve them. And then just don't
Speaker 6: send any money. Please, don't send money the RNC or
Speaker 6: to anybody, any congress.
Speaker 10: Don't.
Speaker 1: Yeah. For years, when they would send me a fundraising
Speaker 1: thing because of my registration whatever, I would take all
Speaker 1: the paperwork and I would wrap it up in their
Speaker 1: postage paid return envelope and send it back to them
Speaker 1: without putting anything on it. So I didn't know what
Speaker 1: was coming from. It's like you pay for the postage send.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I absolutely agree with that. You know, we
Speaker 1: got to do this locally. It begins with us, and
Speaker 1: we need to have you know, we need to have
Speaker 1: alliances with people. We need to learn that real prepping
Speaker 1: is really about skills. It's not just about accumulating stuff
Speaker 1: and so and that's what I want people. That's why
Speaker 1: I say, you know, when we look at the elections,
Speaker 1: you know, it is a big distraction. It is a
Speaker 1: big reality TV show, and I think it's there to
Speaker 1: distract us and to move us away from the things
Speaker 1: that we could do that would really make a difference.
Speaker 1: And that is all local, all the things that are
Speaker 1: going to make a difference, and we still have an
Speaker 1: opportunity to do some things individually as well as even
Speaker 1: in some areas you might have some ability to do
Speaker 1: things at local government. Because we saw a big difference
Speaker 1: and what was happening in twenty twenty with those lockdowns,
Speaker 1: it was a big difference from place to place. I
Speaker 1: traveled across the country and said that really hammered home
Speaker 1: the point to me that you know, we need to
Speaker 1: focus a little bit more on the local area. There
Speaker 1: can be a lot of corruption anywhere that you go.
Speaker 1: I mean, we're dealing with people. There can be corruption,
Speaker 1: but there's also more of an opportunity to do something
Speaker 1: at the local level. Even Elon Musk tried to explain
Speaker 1: that to people that Soros was smart because he was
Speaker 1: leveraging his money on local district attorneys and that is
Speaker 1: a very cynical thing that he's doing, but it is
Speaker 1: a good strategy because all politics is local, but your
Speaker 1: life is really local. And if you don't have this
Speaker 1: kind of a relationship with other people, and I would
Speaker 1: also say a relationship with God, because I look at hope,
Speaker 1: I'm looking at that as a confident expectation. That's my
Speaker 1: groundings that's what I know that I can trust on
Speaker 1: and that anybody's going to take that away from me
Speaker 1: no matter what happens life or death. And so you
Speaker 1: got to have a foundation, you got to have relationships,
Speaker 1: and you got to start building from the ground up
Speaker 1: instead of from the top down everybody. That's the thing
Speaker 1: that's so annoying to me is to see that conservatives
Speaker 1: have bought into this idea of top down solutions from government.
Speaker 1: They want the government, they want the president to do everything.
Speaker 1: It's just amazing, Savior.
Speaker 6: Conflex and I like I do want to spend a
Speaker 6: few minutes talking about the Lord and your spirituality and
Speaker 6: how important that is right now because for those people
Speaker 6: David who did unfortunately make the wrong choice under dress,
Speaker 6: but it's clearly the wrong choice and took the shots,
Speaker 6: that's not a judgment. I tell them, you must acknowledge
Speaker 6: that you made the wrong or a very bad choice,
Speaker 6: because otherwise you will fall forward again if you don't
Speaker 6: believe you had the power to really choose. And then
Speaker 6: you can start to forgive yourself. I made a mistake
Speaker 6: that was wrong. I was trying to do something good
Speaker 6: and protect my family. But then you can then start
Speaker 6: to heal spiritually and ask God for comfort and support
Speaker 6: and miracles of healing, and for forgiveness, for forgiveness for
Speaker 6: not recognizing the delusion that He had sent so many
Speaker 6: of us.
Speaker 1: That's what that's what we say. Our relationship with Christ
Speaker 1: is all about. Is about a new beginning, and it's
Speaker 1: always about that new beginning starts with not trying to
Speaker 1: just put it out away and ignore that it ever happened,
Speaker 1: as they did at the R and C about twenty twenty.
Speaker 1: It's about confronting that and acknowledging as you point out
Speaker 1: mistakes so you don't make them again. But it's also
Speaker 1: that is absolutely necessary that we come to grips with
Speaker 1: the uncomfortable realities that we have in life, and that
Speaker 1: includes our own uncomfortable reality. So that is absolutely important,
Speaker 1: and that is what is missing from so many different things.
Speaker 1: People will just run from these problems and you how
Speaker 1: to confront them.
Speaker 6: Yeah, and he's waiting, I think, for more people to
Speaker 6: real what this is about and to come to him. Ultimately,
Speaker 6: he wins and he knows what's going to happen and
Speaker 6: why we're all here. I think, you know, one time
Speaker 6: I heard I was backstage and I was watched doctor
Speaker 6: Zelenko go out. I was speaking after him, and he
Speaker 6: went out on stage and after the crowd came down,
Speaker 6: he said something really shocking. He said, we are living
Speaker 6: in the greatest time in history. And I thought, oh
Speaker 6: my god, doctor z how could you say that? You know,
Speaker 6: people are dying, the shots a whole bit and there
Speaker 6: was a pause, and then he said, because we are
Speaker 6: the enemy has revealed himself and we are about to
Speaker 6: see the light overcome the darkness.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 6: Unfortunately, about a month later he passed away from his cancer.
Speaker 6: But which I have theories about that's another topic. But
Speaker 6: I realized we're all here at this time, you know,
Speaker 6: in God's time, for this purpose. So everybody should try
Speaker 6: to find that purpose and look around you and see
Speaker 6: who you and what you can protect to help as
Speaker 6: many people of God's children to get to the other side.
Speaker 6: That's that's my whole feeling about it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it is an interesting time that we're living in.
Speaker 1: That's the old Chinese curse, you know, May you live
Speaker 1: in interesting times. But that means that there are there
Speaker 1: are opportunities for us in this type of situation. It
Speaker 1: is a time of testing. We always have tests that
Speaker 1: are being given to us, so we don't know what
Speaker 1: the purpose of it is. But really the purpose of
Speaker 1: the test is really to find out what you know
Speaker 1: about yourself, is to teach you about yourself. And you know,
Speaker 1: God knows everything about us. He does we need to
Speaker 1: know about ourselves, and that's really what kind of comes
Speaker 1: out of these tests. So it is a very difficult time.
Speaker 1: It's an important time for people who are going to
Speaker 1: just do their best. Anybody can be mistaken, but we
Speaker 1: just have to do our best to tell people what
Speaker 1: is true. If we see something that is out there,
Speaker 1: we need to warn them about it. That's what I
Speaker 1: appreciate you doing that and telling people honestly, regardless of
Speaker 1: how it's going to be received. You know, the truth
Speaker 1: is the truth, and we have to tell people about that.
Speaker 6: And I just want to say one lest thing in
Speaker 6: terms of warning, big, big, big warning, everybody. Please this mRNA.
Speaker 6: You've got Vance, you know, invested with Ramaswami, you know, Vivid,
Speaker 6: you know and Teal and all the hundreds and thousands
Speaker 6: of people investing billions into m RNA. It's not going anywhere.
Speaker 6: So get off of the pharmaceutical grid. Get off of
Speaker 6: the notion the old fashion. It's coming at us in
Speaker 6: a lot of different ways, and so we've got to
Speaker 6: be aware so we know what to protect ourselves from.
Speaker 6: And that's a whole other topic.
Speaker 1: I know, the other and of course Ramaswami was there
Speaker 1: in the Ohio with the wine, one of the worst
Speaker 1: of the governors, and he was there trying to put
Speaker 1: in a surveillance and tracking and things like that. So
Speaker 1: that's a whole other aspect of it that dovetails with
Speaker 1: all of this pandemic thing, is a surveillance and tracking
Speaker 1: and that all goes back to Peter Teel and Pallanteer
Speaker 1: and all the rest of the stuff. It's about surveillance, tracking,
Speaker 1: anticipating what people are going to do, manipulating them, punishing
Speaker 1: them in advance because they you know, kind of this
Speaker 1: pre crime thing. They called it anticipatory intelligence. It has
Speaker 1: been around for a while, but they're making it real.
Speaker 1: And the people who made it real and made a
Speaker 1: fortune off of it are the ones who are supporting Jade.
Speaker 1: Vance is very concerning. I'm very concerned.
Speaker 6: I'm Donald Trump. Don't keep him out because he's bringing
Speaker 6: them all together like he brought them all together in
Speaker 6: twenty twenty operational warp speed consolidating all the alphabet agencies
Speaker 6: that created this nightmare.
Speaker 1: That's right, yeah, yeah, second term is going to be
Speaker 1: pretty amazing. Tell people where they can find you, doctor Ruby.
Speaker 6: Well, I have my own show and coffee chats which
Speaker 6: are not as benign as they sound. They get a
Speaker 6: little deep into information on my rumble channel. It's rumble
Speaker 6: dot com forward slash Dr Jane Ruby, and I'm pretty
Speaker 6: active over on Twitter and Telegram, just trying to get
Speaker 6: the word out, get conversations going and things like that.
Speaker 6: So really, thank you so much, David. It's been an honor.
Speaker 6: You are one of my absolute favorites and go tos
Speaker 6: and almost it's been great being with you.
Speaker 1: Thank you very much as honored to have you on
Speaker 1: and great information and thanks for sticking your neck out there,
Speaker 1: even if you're going to good people throwing stuff at you.
Speaker 1: So thank you for what you do.
Speaker 8: Biased and false neoze has.
Speaker 1: Become all too common social media.
Speaker 7: First, unfortunately, the.
Speaker 11: Exactly and this is extremely dangerous to our democracy.
Speaker 10: This is extremely dangerous to our democracy.
Speaker 8: This is extremely dangerous to our democracy.
Speaker 12: This is extremely dangerous to our democracy.
Speaker 13: This is extremely dangerous to our democracy.
Speaker 9: This is extremely dangerous to our democracy.
Speaker 14: This is extremely dangerous to our democracy.
Speaker 15: This is extremely dangerous to our democracy.
Speaker 16: This is extremely dangerous to our democracy.
Speaker 1: Break free from the usual script with a David Knight Show,
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Speaker 17: A spot.
Speaker 1: All right, welcome back in Our guest is ken Block
Speaker 1: and the book is Disproven, my unbiased search for voter
Speaker 1: fraud and the Trump campaign the data that shows why
Speaker 1: he lost and how we can improve our elections. And
Speaker 1: we're going to spend a lot of time on election reform,
Speaker 1: not so much about litigating twenty twenty. He's got a
Speaker 1: lot to say. How did he get involved in this? Well?
Speaker 1: He is president of a software systems company, Simpatico, software
Speaker 1: engineer and entrepreneur specializes in database technologies and groundbreaking projects
Speaker 1: such as the country's first statewide debit card benefits system
Speaker 1: in Texas. He saved them billion dollars off of the
Speaker 1: fraud and waste and their snap programs. But as he said,
Speaker 1: he wasn't really interested in getting involved in politics, But
Speaker 1: sometimes we find that politics is interested in us. In
Speaker 1: the past decade, he's analyzed voter data from more than
Speaker 1: forty states. The few that he has yet to analyze
Speaker 1: do not provide their data to the public. He has
Speaker 1: served as an expert and legal challenges that involve voting data,
Speaker 1: vote to fraud, and election integrity. So we'll talk to
Speaker 1: him about all of these things and about what he
Speaker 1: has learned as he investigates us. What can we do
Speaker 1: to make sure that we have honest elections that are
Speaker 1: not going to be contested. Thank you for joining us.
Speaker 7: Sir, Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1: It's very important because we've got a lot of people
Speaker 1: are very concerned about this, and rightfully so, a lot
Speaker 1: of people are ready to have a revolution if the
Speaker 1: candidate that they think should win does not win, and
Speaker 1: in a you know, equally divided country like this, half
Speaker 1: the people are pretty much feeling that way. I saw
Speaker 1: that your forward was written by Brad Raffinsburger, the Georgia
Speaker 1: Secretary of State that you know again over the weekend.
Speaker 1: I talked about this. At the beginning of the program.
Speaker 1: Trump was furious at Governor Kemp. I didn't talk about Raffensburger,
Speaker 1: but they have in the past, and so you know
Speaker 1: he is and I said this about him. I said,
Speaker 1: it's unfortunate that he is so focused on revenge that
Speaker 1: he can't be focused on even winning, let alone on reform.
Speaker 1: And so I want to talk about that. But before
Speaker 1: we get into what we can do for reform, tell
Speaker 1: us a little bit about your take on what happened
Speaker 1: in Georgia where you investigated.
Speaker 7: Yeah, it's the idea that in states that are whisker close,
Speaker 7: and we have a bunch of them. We have Arizona, Pennsylvania, Georgia,
Speaker 7: Michigan is not really whisker close, but close enough Nevada.
Speaker 7: The idea that if the election goes one way as
Speaker 7: opposed to another, that the only explanation for it must
Speaker 7: have been fraud is not an accurate way to depict
Speaker 7: what happened in these elections and in Georgia in twenty twenty,
Speaker 7: there are there's a ready explanation for what happened, and
Speaker 7: Georgia is maybe in a lot of ways the closest
Speaker 7: state that we have in terms of being evenly divided
Speaker 7: between Democrats and Republicans. The results of the twenty twenty
Speaker 7: election have been gone up and down and backwards and
Speaker 7: votes and sideways, and there really hasn't surfaced any credible
Speaker 7: claim of voter fraud that could be proven. And in
Speaker 7: my work for the Trump campaign, I was hired very
Speaker 7: specifically to do data analytics that would stand up in
Speaker 7: a court of law. My job was to find enough
Speaker 7: voter fraud to matter in one of the swing states,
Speaker 7: document it, and have it be so rock solid that
Speaker 7: when it got taken to court, the other side's experts
Speaker 7: wouldn't be able to tear it apart. That's sort of
Speaker 7: the gold standard when you're dealing with legal challenges to elections.
Speaker 7: You have to have a foundation of fact in which
Speaker 7: to be successful in court. And the simple fact of
Speaker 7: the matter is whether it was Georgia or any of
Speaker 7: the other swing states. While we found some voter fraud,
Speaker 7: we didn't find nearly enough to cover the margin of victory,
Speaker 7: and the margin of victory in Georgia was roughly twelve
Speaker 7: thousand votes, it was roughly eleven thousand votes in Arizona,
Speaker 7: roughly ninety thousand votes in Pennsylvania. And in none of
Speaker 7: those states did we find enough voter fraud to cover
Speaker 7: what those margins were. And that's just a plain statement
Speaker 7: of fact. There were so many election challenges that failed
Speaker 7: in the court system because the nature of their proof
Speaker 7: wasn't acceptable proof in courts of law, right, And that's.
Speaker 1: Just sort of a was there everybody talk about them
Speaker 1: taking their findings. I know that you were there to
Speaker 1: prepare the findings that they would use argue the case.
Speaker 1: But did they ever talk about taking the case instead
Speaker 1: of to a court to the legislature? Because I know,
Speaker 1: for these razor thin margin victory for a Biden for
Speaker 1: these states had Republican legislatures. Were they ever talking about
Speaker 1: presenting a case to the legislature to get them to
Speaker 1: acknowledge a Republican slate of electors officially, and then you
Speaker 1: would have had, as Thomas Massey talked about, as Pence
Speaker 1: talked about, as JD. Vans recently talked about, to have
Speaker 1: then a court case as to who gets to decide
Speaker 1: who the electors are. Is it going to be the
Speaker 1: governor and the executive branch? Is it going to be
Speaker 1: the legislative branch. Was there EVERYNY talk about taking the
Speaker 1: case to the legislatures?
Speaker 7: So I wasn't part of any strategy meetings inside the campaign.
Speaker 7: My job was incredibly focused, and I had thirty days
Speaker 7: to do what amounted to about a year's worth of work.
Speaker 7: So I was highly occupied and segmented away from everything
Speaker 7: else that was swirling around the campaign at the time.
Speaker 7: What I would say in general is that legislatures probably
Speaker 7: are not the best body to try to ascertain a
Speaker 7: very technical determination, which was did fraud occur and how
Speaker 7: did it occur? You know, many members of legislators don't
Speaker 7: have that in their background. So it would be my
Speaker 7: preference that if it's going to be contested, that it
Speaker 7: gets contested in a venue where they can handle highly
Speaker 7: technical presentations and digest the facts. And our court system
Speaker 7: does that all the time. Legislatures typically don't. So that's
Speaker 7: just from a process perspective, that's kind of where I'm at.
Speaker 7: In Georgia. There are three different data points that really
Speaker 7: helped document what really happened in Georgia, and I know
Speaker 7: that in a lot of conservative circles, Secretary of Raethenisberger
Speaker 7: is not well liked. But the data that he brought
Speaker 7: forward and can document has documented, and it's hard proof.
Speaker 7: He showed that about thirty thousand GOP presidential primary voters
Speaker 7: in Georgia in twenty twenty took pass on the general election.
Speaker 7: Those are lost presidential votes for President Trump, and he
Speaker 7: lost by fewer than twelve thousand votes. Now, those thirty
Speaker 7: thousand votes were probably moderate Republicans, call um rhinos, whatever
Speaker 7: you want to call them, who probably voted against Trump
Speaker 7: in the primary and then decided they couldn't they couldn't
Speaker 7: bear to vote in the general election. And there was
Speaker 7: another thirty thousand votes that Raefensberger brought forward and has
Speaker 7: the proof for that showed that the presidential selection was
Speaker 7: left blank, but all the down ticket Republicans received votes.
Speaker 7: And again that's a sort of symbolic protest votes by
Speaker 7: very likely middle of the road Republicans who liked down
Speaker 7: ticket gops but didn't like what was at the top
Speaker 7: of the ticket. And that's hard evidence to overcome, and
Speaker 7: there's really no credible fraud that you can look at
Speaker 7: that comes close to having the solidity of the numbers
Speaker 7: that Raffensberger brought forward that matches with my nationwide findings
Speaker 7: are and those are basically that Trump lost about two
Speaker 7: and a half percent support across the board everywhere in
Speaker 7: twenty twenty relative to twenty sixteen. And those are the rhinos.
Speaker 7: I'm pretty sure those are the rhinos who took a
Speaker 7: hike and left. It's not a lot of voters, but
Speaker 7: in a whisker close election, it was enough most.
Speaker 1: Probably people who were not too happy with what had
Speaker 1: happened the first part of twenty twenty. Let me ask you,
Speaker 1: you know, with the lockdowns and things like that, that
Speaker 1: kind of soured a lot of us on what was
Speaker 1: going on. But let me ask you about the vote
Speaker 1: by mail thing, because that was a function of the
Speaker 1: lockdown as well, and we'd never done that before. How
Speaker 1: did you audit or how did you view the vote
Speaker 1: by mail stuff?
Speaker 7: So we looked at the mail ballots, not so much
Speaker 7: from the process of mail ballots, were their changes to
Speaker 7: rules made to allow mail ballots to be changed, how
Speaker 7: mail ballots were used. My role in looking at them
Speaker 7: was did were dead votes cast by mail. Did people
Speaker 7: who voted by mail vote twice in two different places?
Speaker 7: It was the nature of what I was looking at
Speaker 7: was those sorts of things.
Speaker 9: You know.
Speaker 7: It was really a remarkable period of time in a
Speaker 7: lot of different ways. And honestly, I think maybe had
Speaker 7: had we not had COVID, I actually believe there was
Speaker 7: a better than even money chance that President Trump would
Speaker 7: still be President Trump right now. I think COVID cost
Speaker 7: him dearly in this election. Did mail ballot use tip
Speaker 7: the balance? I don't think so, because I think anybody
Speaker 7: who was motivated to vote would have figured out how
Speaker 7: to vote one way or the other. Is were mail
Speaker 7: ballots used for in some nefarious way to were's massive
Speaker 7: mail ballot fraud happening? And I didn't see evidence of that.
Speaker 7: I mean, to commit mail ballot fraud, you're either going
Speaker 7: to steal someone's identity and vote as somebody else, or
Speaker 7: you're going to steal a deceased person's identity and do that.
Speaker 7: And we found a couple a dozen dead votes in
Speaker 7: most of the swing states. We found a couple one
Speaker 7: hundred duplicate votes across the swing states, and the campaign
Speaker 7: spared no expense on this. We exhaustively looked at every
Speaker 7: single mail ballot to ensure that the person in whose
Speaker 7: name that mail ballot was cast was among the living.
Speaker 1: So what do they do to cast about? Do they
Speaker 1: have to request it and is it mailed to them
Speaker 1: at an address or something? They just pick it up
Speaker 1: and then mail it in themselves. How did that?
Speaker 7: So what's really frustrating is it's different from state to
Speaker 7: state to state. We're going to get into that down
Speaker 7: the line. In many states, you have to fill out
Speaker 7: a mail ballot application, mail it in, they verify your signature,
Speaker 7: and then when the time is right, they'll mail you
Speaker 7: a ballot that you then return.
Speaker 1: That's like the absentee ballot process that we've had for
Speaker 1: a very long time, right right, Yeah.
Speaker 7: A few states and this goes this happened before COVID
Speaker 7: States like California and Oregon and Colorado interestingly, have moved
Speaker 7: to entirely conducting their elections by mail. They send out
Speaker 7: mail ballots to everybody, and if you don't want to
Speaker 7: vote by mail, you have to take extraordinary actions to
Speaker 7: opt out of voting by mail and instead to vote
Speaker 7: in a different way. So we had a mix of
Speaker 7: those different things. Many states made voting by mail easier
Speaker 7: in twenty twenty, the hardest state in the country to
Speaker 7: vote by mail is I believe it's Louisiana that has
Speaker 7: a very strict usage in terms of who can use
Speaker 7: it under what circumstances, So it's all over the map.
Speaker 7: I didn't see any artisan slant to the mail ballot
Speaker 7: fraud that we did find. It was pretty evenly divided
Speaker 7: by Democrats, Republicans, independents. And that's been the case of
Speaker 7: all the voter fraud I've documented over the years. I
Speaker 7: have yet to find a form of voter fraud where
Speaker 7: when it happens, it's just sort of a bipartisan activity.
Speaker 1: How would you audit a situation to find out if
Speaker 1: somebody was voting for dead person? And I asked because
Speaker 1: a friend of my brother in laws in twenty twelve
Speaker 1: in North Carolina, they have at least at that time,
Speaker 1: they had the longest voting period of any state, and
Speaker 1: there was no picture ID, so you could just walk
Speaker 1: in and give them you could vote early, and when
Speaker 1: you went to vote, you just give them a name
Speaker 1: and address, and there was no validation of that with
Speaker 1: even a driver's license and so on. Election day, this
Speaker 1: friend of my brothers brother in law goes in and
Speaker 1: to regually gives them his name in address, and he said,
Speaker 1: you've aready voted, and so is this other person that
Speaker 1: you're addressing. He said, well, that's my mom. She's been
Speaker 1: dead for several years. So how do you audit that
Speaker 1: to know if that is happening in Georgia for example.
Speaker 7: Well, so in twenty twenty, the Trump campaign had us
Speaker 7: process every single mail ballot voter in the swing stage.
Speaker 7: There was about thirty one million of them.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 7: We process them through a data vendor who matches up
Speaker 7: the voter with their social Security number, and then using
Speaker 7: the social Security number, you can look at something called
Speaker 7: the Social Security Death Master File, which is the soci
Speaker 7: Security Administration tracks everybody who dies. So we use that
Speaker 7: mechanism thirty one million times for every mail ballot that
Speaker 7: was cast. Why did you find election? Like I said,
Speaker 7: you know, we found a couple at most a couple
Speaker 7: a dozen in each swing state, not nearly enough to matter.
Speaker 7: I did predict because I had done an analysis in
Speaker 7: Pennsylvania about a month before the election. I found a
Speaker 7: couple of recently registered dead voters, and I predicted that
Speaker 7: those would become mail ballot fraud, and they did.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, Now, you you did your research, you presented
Speaker 1: your findings to the Trump campaign and who had hired you,
Speaker 1: to their attorneys, and you also reported to Mark Meadows
Speaker 1: all of your results. Is that correct?
Speaker 7: Yeah? So I didn't speak directly to Mark Meadows, the
Speaker 7: lawyer who hired me and who basically was my point
Speaker 7: person throughout this whole thing, Alex Cannon. He the basic
Speaker 7: premise of what I did two different things. I looked
Speaker 7: for duplicate votes, I looked for dead voters. And then
Speaker 7: the campaign used my company to help vet every claim
Speaker 7: of voter fraud that came their way, and there were
Speaker 7: a lot of them from outside of the campaign asking
Speaker 7: He asked us to vet them, determine whether they were
Speaker 7: true or not before they would consider taking those claims
Speaker 7: into court. So they were operating in a very careful,
Speaker 7: methodical way. They asked us to review about twenty different
Speaker 7: claims of fraud. Some of them came in through folks
Speaker 7: like Sidney Powell and John Eastman. Others came through academics,
Speaker 7: just random people out there who did their own research.
Speaker 7: And every one of the twenty different claims that we
Speaker 7: looked at, we were able to show why it was wrong.
Speaker 7: When we wrapped things up towards the end of November,
Speaker 7: Cannon took the summation of everything that we had done
Speaker 7: and went to Mark Meadows and told Meadows that when
Speaker 7: it came to vot voter fraud, we looked pretty exhaustively
Speaker 7: at it. All the claims we looked at were false
Speaker 7: and we couldn't find enough voter fraud to have changed
Speaker 7: the outcome in any election.
Speaker 1: And when did when was that presented? What was the
Speaker 1: date that roughly that you presented that stuff?
Speaker 7: Well, so I didn't do a presentation to anybody. Every
Speaker 7: one of the claims I looked at had its own
Speaker 7: email and documentation, and all that landed on Cannon's desk.
Speaker 7: Cannon took that all together and went and talked to Meadows,
Speaker 7: I believe, right at the end of November, and gave
Speaker 7: him the summation of everything.
Speaker 1: Okay, all right. And so it was December the fourteenth
Speaker 1: that the electoral colleges, you know, the people that were
Speaker 1: selected the elector the site of electors from each party
Speaker 1: that had won, submitted their votes on December fourteenth, January
Speaker 1: the sixth was a formal acceptance of all that stuff.
Speaker 1: But everybody presented that stuff on December fourteenth, so they
Speaker 1: knew the end of November. They knew a couple of
Speaker 1: weeks before the Electoral College voted. Uh, and then again
Speaker 1: about another about I guess six weeks or so before
Speaker 1: the January the sixth thing they had those results in.
Speaker 1: What did you think about the stop the Steel stuff?
Speaker 1: You mentioned that that you debunked fraud claims while I
Speaker 1: was advancing to stop the steel initiative. Tell us a
Speaker 1: little bit about that.
Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean, so as I looked at everything, I
Speaker 7: wasn't aware usually of where the claims came from. I
Speaker 7: was able to piece a lot of it together afterwards. So,
Speaker 7: you know, for the from the Sydney Powell John Eastman perspective,
Speaker 7: I didn't know that the claims that I found were false,
Speaker 7: that they brought forward came from them until about a
Speaker 7: year ago. Really, so uh, it's the you know, the
Speaker 7: whole problem would stop the steal and with a lot
Speaker 7: of so many people believe firmly that the election was stolen,
Speaker 7: but that belief is based upon a set of facts
Speaker 7: that's at best really really squishy right. What I mean
Speaker 7: by that is the facts on which the claims are
Speaker 7: being made that everybody is grabbing onto and says it
Speaker 7: was stolen can't possibly ever stand up in court, usually
Speaker 7: for a really basic reason, because that reason is it's
Speaker 7: more usually it's hearsay evidence. What I mean by that,
Speaker 7: hearsay is often defined as he said, she said type stuff, right,
Speaker 7: And our courts don't allow that kind of evidence on
Speaker 7: which to convict somebody because someone can easily be lying
Speaker 7: about that right. The court systems want to see fact
Speaker 7: based evidence that can be double and triple checked, hard facts,
Speaker 7: and most of most of the evidence that people are
Speaker 7: being presented as evidence that the election was stolen is
Speaker 7: squishy evidence. It's not the kind of evidence that you
Speaker 7: could take to court and win. And that, to me
Speaker 7: is really something that I have a problem with because
Speaker 7: you know, I'm a data guy. I take data to court,
Speaker 7: and my data survives legal scrutiny, right, So if you
Speaker 7: can't find data that survives legal scrutiny, I think it's
Speaker 7: sketchy to start bringing forward data that can't and then
Speaker 7: using that information to really get people amped up about
Speaker 7: what happened in our election. I do not believe that
Speaker 7: the election was stolen. I believe that the election in
Speaker 7: twenty twenty was lost.
Speaker 1: I was very skeptical of it from the very beginning. Actually,
Speaker 1: you know, when I worked at info Wars, I had
Speaker 1: a show there and two days after the election, Steve
Speaker 1: Achenet came on and said that there had that it
Speaker 1: was a sting that they had blockchain watermark ballots that
Speaker 1: had somehow come out of the federal government at some
Speaker 1: central location. But the key thing that was obviously provable
Speaker 1: was he said, two days after the election, So we
Speaker 1: got twenty thousand National Guard that are out there resting
Speaker 1: these people who rig the election. Now, that obviously was true,
Speaker 1: and that wasn't going to go down that path. So
Speaker 1: we had all kinds of stuff, But it was so
Speaker 1: many people. Even weeks after that, when there was absolutely
Speaker 1: no evidence of any National Guard troops or any arrests
Speaker 1: or whatever, they were still pushing that. So I can
Speaker 1: imagine that somebody saying, yeah, we got pictures of or
Speaker 1: I know personally about somebody's stuff in a ballot box.
Speaker 1: That's going to be much more believable than the other
Speaker 1: stuff that the people were fighting about and willing to
Speaker 1: go to the mat to say, yes, there is some
Speaker 1: secret war that is going on, maybe in Germany, maybe
Speaker 1: some places in the United States where people are actually
Speaker 1: you know, fighting and going to war over this. It
Speaker 1: really was a strange situation. One more thing I'd like
Speaker 1: to talk about before we start talking about how to
Speaker 1: reform this stuff, and that is the exit polls, which
Speaker 1: have kind of come in to play again with this
Speaker 1: as well. In election the State Department has always used
Speaker 1: Edison Research, which is the exit polling organization here in
Speaker 1: the United States, and they say that and they use
Speaker 1: them in other countries as well, and they say that
Speaker 1: if the difference between Edison Researches exit polls and the
Speaker 1: official results are more than five points away from each other,
Speaker 1: that looks like it's a rigged election. Now it's just
Speaker 1: one particular company, and of course that company can be
Speaker 1: rigged as well. We don't know about their integrity, but
Speaker 1: it is the company that is used for the exit
Speaker 1: polls by all of the media organizations in the United States.
Speaker 1: They typically don't give us I've never seen them give
Speaker 1: us a total and say, well, here's what they say
Speaker 1: the total is, and compare that to what the reported
Speaker 1: votes were they'll give you demographic cross tabulations. You know,
Speaker 1: how many men or how many women or this or
Speaker 1: that voted for this candidate. But was there ever any
Speaker 1: talk about looking at the exit polls anything about that.
Speaker 7: So I didn't know it at the time, but I
Speaker 7: learned of this about a year and a half ago.
Speaker 7: The Trump campaign commissioned their top polster to conduct exit
Speaker 7: polls in the twenty twenty election in the Swing States.
Speaker 7: That poster's name is Tony Fabrizio. And just to be
Speaker 7: fully transparent, I'm a two time candidate for governor here
Speaker 7: in Rhode Island and in my run in twenty fourteen
Speaker 7: as a Republican, Fabrizio was my poster as well. So
Speaker 7: I'd just like to put that out there because I'm
Speaker 7: talking about him, and I just didn't want to do
Speaker 7: that without disclosing that. Fabrizio conducted a thirty thousand interview
Speaker 7: exit poll across all the Swing states, and he created
Speaker 7: an internal campaign document that leaked, and that document made
Speaker 7: its way to politico dot com, so anyone can find
Speaker 7: it there. But what he determined was that one out
Speaker 7: of six votes voters that they spoke with were disaffect
Speaker 7: did Republicans who chose to vote against Trump in that
Speaker 7: twenty twenty race. Another one out of six voters were
Speaker 7: brand new voters motivated to vote against Trump because of COVID.
Speaker 7: So that's that's a full third of the voters that
Speaker 7: they had identified were strongly against Trump for different sets
Speaker 7: of reasons. So exit polls are typically taken to the
Speaker 7: bank type things, right, They're usually considered to be pretty accurate,
Speaker 7: and I've not ever heard of somebody manipulating the results
Speaker 7: of an exit pole. I don't know much, hardly anything
Speaker 7: at all about what's going on down invent In, Venezuela
Speaker 7: right now, other than it's a messy So.
Speaker 1: It's another one of these things, right, So that kind
Speaker 1: of gives us a lead into some of the things
Speaker 1: that we do about how to how to fix this
Speaker 1: based on your insights. But I think that's very important.
Speaker 1: I think it's very interesting that the Trump campaign did
Speaker 1: his own exit polls, and they didn't present that data,
Speaker 1: so presumably that data was not favorable to them, didn't
Speaker 1: Did you am I mistaken? Did you debate Lindell on this?
Speaker 1: Mike Lindell, I.
Speaker 7: Did, he and I appeared on a YouTube channel about
Speaker 7: a month ago and with a host named David Pacman,
Speaker 7: And yeah, we had about a forty five minute conversation
Speaker 7: about voter fraud and what is there, what's not there,
Speaker 7: and even we got into a little bit the things
Speaker 7: that we need to do to fix things.
Speaker 1: And I know that he held a press conference at
Speaker 1: one point in time and Steve Bannon was there, a
Speaker 1: whole bunch of people, and Steve Bannon was just fed up.
Speaker 1: He said, well, we were told that he had receipts,
Speaker 1: and he goes, he didn't have any receipts, really, etcetera.
Speaker 1: Does he have any receipts yet?
Speaker 7: No?
Speaker 1: This evidence free, right, that's very interesting. It really is
Speaker 1: sad to see. But let's talk talk about what we
Speaker 1: can do to fix the election system based on what
Speaker 1: you have seen and your opinions about it.
Speaker 7: Yeah, so I think this is the most important thing
Speaker 7: to talk about. I mean, twenty twenty is long gone
Speaker 7: and it's in the rear mirror. There's nothing that we
Speaker 7: can do at this point to alter the course of
Speaker 7: what's going to happen in twenty twenty four. It's going
Speaker 7: to be very very similar, I believe, to what we
Speaker 7: experienced in twenty twenty, it may be almost virtually identical.
Speaker 7: I wouldn't be surprised if the outcome is exactly the same,
Speaker 7: because the basic same setup is there that we had
Speaker 7: four years ago. The way we conduct our elections in
Speaker 7: this country is the way we've done it for hundreds
Speaker 7: of years, and it no longer makes any sense, and
Speaker 7: it causes us some real problems. And the biggest set
Speaker 7: of problems that we have is that different states, and
Speaker 7: many times different counties in the same state, conduct the
Speaker 7: same election differently. They have different rules, they have different regulations,
Speaker 7: they have different hardware. And I'll give you just a
Speaker 7: simple example of how these differences can actually affect the
Speaker 7: outcome of a specific vote. What do you think happens
Speaker 7: if you vote early but then die before election day?
Speaker 7: Does your vote count or does your vote not count?
Speaker 1: I would think that it would count.
Speaker 7: Depends on where you live, depends yeah. Yeah, So in
Speaker 7: Michigan it does not count. And in twenty twenty, the
Speaker 7: state of Michigan invalidated about thirty five hundred votes by
Speaker 7: voters who voted early and then passed away before election day.
Speaker 7: In Pennsylvania, if you vote earlier then pass away before
Speaker 7: the election your vote does count. So some of the
Speaker 7: votes that people identified as to ceised votes actually counted,
Speaker 7: because in Pennsylvania that's not in an illegal situation. As long
Speaker 7: as you cast the vote while you're alive. If you
Speaker 7: happen to then pass away before election day, in Pennsylvania,
Speaker 7: the vote still counts. So it becomes you can see
Speaker 7: how just that one scenario clauses a voter that we
Speaker 7: imagine is in this situation to have a very different
Speaker 7: experience as a dead voter in Michigan as it does
Speaker 7: opposed to Pennsylvania.
Speaker 1: Let me ask you this question before we move on,
Speaker 1: because when you get these ballots in, I mean, what
Speaker 1: kind of records do you have to look at a vote,
Speaker 1: an early vote by mail ballot to know that this
Speaker 1: person voted that ballot and voted it at that date.
Speaker 1: You know, if they're going to count it if the
Speaker 1: person is now dead, but they you know, to know
Speaker 1: that the person made this a vote before they died.
Speaker 1: How do you do you have how do you audit that?
Speaker 1: What kind of information do they have in terms of auditability?
Speaker 1: Do they know the postmark date and the person name
Speaker 1: on the ballot.
Speaker 7: So they had postmark dates, they have names and addresses
Speaker 7: on the ballot application, which also goes on to the
Speaker 7: envelope that your mail ballot gets put into as you
Speaker 7: mail it back. In The trick is getting that information
Speaker 7: and being able to determine with certainty whether or not
Speaker 7: that voter is dead and alive or alive. And most
Speaker 7: people who do these analysis aren't able to arrive at
Speaker 7: an answer that is rock solid for sure.
Speaker 1: Yeah, a big problem Pennsylvania. You know, whereas that it's
Speaker 1: okay if they did it and then died, how do
Speaker 1: you determine that. That's tough, right right?
Speaker 7: Well? I pointed out to the state of Pennsylvania through
Speaker 7: lawyers that I was doing some work for in October of
Speaker 7: twenty twenty two registered voters who were dead clearly deceased,
Speaker 7: identified them and because they had registered in the last
Speaker 7: month back in September of twenty twenty, I said, these
Speaker 7: will become very likely fraudulent votes. The state didn't do
Speaker 7: anything about those voters. They did, in fact vote by
Speaker 7: mail as deceased voters, and it was only after the
Speaker 7: election that the people behind those votes were contacted, arrested,
Speaker 7: and they pled guilty to election crimes for casting fraudginal votes.
Speaker 7: It's really hard. In fact, it's so hard to identify
Speaker 7: whether or not someone is living or dead. I think
Speaker 7: that the only reasonable thing to do is to probably
Speaker 7: allow the votes as long as you're alive when you
Speaker 7: cast the vote. I think that the vote should count
Speaker 7: because it's just so hard for states to determine otherwise
Speaker 7: inside a crazy window of time where they're trying to
Speaker 7: do a lot of other things, you know. And again,
Speaker 7: we only were able to do what we did in
Speaker 7: terms of identifying deceased registered voters because the Trump campaign
Speaker 7: basically provided an unlimited pile of money that we were
Speaker 7: able to spend to do so accurately.
Speaker 1: I guess that's really the issue, you know, in terms
Speaker 1: of how do you validate that? And I guess the
Speaker 1: key issue is that people have to have trust in
Speaker 1: the election, and so it seems to me like there
Speaker 1: needs to be different ways that they can have either
Speaker 1: transparency and have the ballots retained. I know that in
Speaker 1: Texas it was kind of a standard procedure, even though
Speaker 1: it was in the constitution that a fact simile image
Speaker 1: of the ballot had to be retained. You had the
Speaker 1: guy who was in charge of the Board of Elections
Speaker 1: would send out a statement to all of the counties
Speaker 1: saying you don't have to retain it, and they would
Speaker 1: not retain it in a lot of these counties, and
Speaker 1: so that made the auditing process really difficult. But I
Speaker 1: think maybe you know a lot of people who are
Speaker 1: looking at let's just go simple, let's go to handcounted ballots.
Speaker 1: We know that people can always stuff stuff, but if
Speaker 1: you've got hand county ballots and you got observers from
Speaker 1: both sides, it seems to me like you need to
Speaker 1: have something like that where people can have some confidence
Speaker 1: that the fraud has been kept to a minimum, that
Speaker 1: there's been eyes on this, that they have have done that.
Speaker 1: What do you think about that? What are your recommendations
Speaker 1: in terms of paper ballots. I know that's a big
Speaker 1: paper chase, but what would you say about that?
Speaker 7: Well? I think, for sure, when you vote, the vote
Speaker 7: should be on a paper ballot so that you have
Speaker 7: a physical representation of what happened, so that you can
Speaker 7: go back and analyze. Any machine that allows you to
Speaker 7: vote electronically without paper ballot backup, I think is a
Speaker 7: terrible idea and we shouldn't be there for sure, let's
Speaker 7: use Maricopa County, Arizona as sort of approving ground for
Speaker 7: whether or not it's reasonable to count by hand all
Speaker 7: the ballots. So Maricopa has roughly one and a half
Speaker 7: million voters that vote and its elections. On your typical
Speaker 7: Maricopa County ballot, there's anywhere between twenty and thirty different
Speaker 7: races on that ballot. It just depends on the year
Speaker 7: and where you are in the cycle of different things,
Speaker 7: which means that in your typical election year Amercopa, you
Speaker 7: have to if you're going to count by hand, you
Speaker 7: have to tally up twenty to thirty million different distinct
Speaker 7: votes across all the different races that are there. That
Speaker 7: is a phenomenally large amount of votes, and no human
Speaker 7: counting effort will ever be anywhere near as accurate as
Speaker 7: a machine count can be. The problem and the worry
Speaker 7: about the machines is that they can be hacked, that
Speaker 7: they can be programmed maliciously before the election, that kind
Speaker 7: of thing. And I look at what the casino industry
Speaker 7: does and brought them in my background, I've done a
Speaker 7: lot of work in the gaming industry over the years,
Speaker 7: many many many casino management systems have defensive software built
Speaker 7: into every one of those slot machines so that they
Speaker 7: know if the software deviates from what it should be.
Speaker 7: And I won't get into the technical details of it,
Speaker 7: but it's something that you can absolutely do, and it's
Speaker 7: something that you can absolutely bring forward into the election
Speaker 7: machine software. We have the ability to know with confidence
Speaker 7: what software is running on those machines, and we should
Speaker 7: be using it. And as I said to Mike, Lindell
Speaker 7: is one of the big, big pushers of we need
Speaker 7: to be counting by hand. We need to be counting
Speaker 7: by hand. And what I'll say is, first of all,
Speaker 7: there's just no way that you can count thirty million
Speaker 7: votes accurately by hand. First of all, it would take
Speaker 7: forever to do that right. You would need an army
Speaker 7: of people conducting the count. And then you know, human
Speaker 7: beings make mistakes in that whole thing. It's just it
Speaker 7: is too big a job, I think to do it,
Speaker 7: to do it manually. And as I said to Mike,
Speaker 7: I said, Mike, the problem is you're talking about squishy
Speaker 7: reasons to count the mallets by hand, but you actually
Speaker 7: haven't pointed out something that is an actual risk that's
Speaker 7: happened that justifies making such a big change. So should
Speaker 7: we harden our machines one hundred percent? And we should
Speaker 7: have federal guidelines that all the machines have to adhere
Speaker 7: to so that we can have some confidence that they
Speaker 7: have not been hacked, and that the software that they're
Speaker 7: running has been vetted and is working the way it
Speaker 7: needs to, and all that kind of thing. That's technology
Speaker 7: that's already in place. I just don't see how. I mean,
Speaker 7: if you or I were to sit down and start
Speaker 7: tallying votes on a ballot, maybe we could tally if
Speaker 7: it worked really fast, five hundred votes an hour, right, maybe?
Speaker 7: I mean, you know, and now think about thirty getting
Speaker 7: to thirty million votes five hundred votes an hour at
Speaker 7: a time. This tells you how big the number is.
Speaker 7: The number is probably sixty thousand hours of work to
Speaker 7: get that done in Maricopa. And I don't think going
Speaker 7: back to the Stone age for how we count votes
Speaker 7: is going to be a workable answer for us in
Speaker 7: this modern age.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's again, you know, when we look at the
Speaker 1: electronics stuff, and I always talk about, and I've shown
Speaker 1: several times an example going back to the late nineteen
Speaker 1: nineties early two thousands, we have local college professors bring
Speaker 1: some kids in. They say, well, let's take over this
Speaker 1: machine here, and they put a virus on there that
Speaker 1: tilts everything according to their predetermined ratios and then erases itself.
Speaker 1: And so you know, the vulnerability there, I guess is
Speaker 1: whether or not it's connected to the internet. Uh, and
Speaker 1: whether or not somebody can reprogram it with you know,
Speaker 1: by putting a thumb drive on there and installing some software.
Speaker 1: How do you guard against that type of thing, that
Speaker 1: kind of custody of the machine, for example, So you.
Speaker 7: Know, the physical the in the same way that slot
Speaker 7: machines have tremendous physical security around them in terms of surveillance,
Speaker 7: both electronic and people watching. Uh, it's the same thing
Speaker 7: with with voting machines. The sensitive areas of the voting
Speaker 7: machine should be in on the back of the machine
Speaker 7: where nobody is allowed.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 7: So if you're putting a USB key in the front
Speaker 7: of the machine and someone I can close the you know,
Speaker 7: they can close the curtains and then plug something in.
Speaker 7: I mean, that's that's that's a violated rule one on
Speaker 7: one of physical security. You know, it's it's there are
Speaker 7: for those who understand machine security and how to make
Speaker 7: sure that the software that should be in there is
Speaker 7: in there. It's all, that's all a solvable problem.
Speaker 1: It really is, and it's part of your auditing. Did
Speaker 1: you have videotapes of the physical security situation?
Speaker 5: No?
Speaker 7: No, we were strictly focused on the data the uh
Speaker 7: they wanted me on, the hard data that was going
Speaker 7: that they were hoping was going to be able to
Speaker 7: go to court. I didn't get involved in any one
Speaker 7: specific local issue, and for sure I didn't get into
Speaker 7: any hearsay claims of any kind there was There wasn't
Speaker 7: the time to get into that. You know, Look, there
Speaker 7: are year a lot of people talk about election integrity
Speaker 7: and I am a huge proponent of election integrity and
Speaker 7: making sure that the data for our elections is as
Speaker 7: clean as it can be. And one of the problems
Speaker 7: with having the states do their own voter registration maintaining
Speaker 7: their voter roles differently from each other is you end
Speaker 7: up with some states that do a really good job
Speaker 7: at it, and you do you have some states that
Speaker 7: do an absolutely terrible job at it, and the terrible
Speaker 7: side of things, I'm going to offer up two states
Speaker 7: New Jersey and New York. In New Jersey in twenty twenty,
Speaker 7: there were roughly twenty five thousand voters registered who had
Speaker 7: a year of birth of eighteen hundred, which, if you
Speaker 7: do the math, you realize that there's just no way
Speaker 7: that any human being in twenty twenty had a birthdate
Speaker 7: of eighteen hundred. And of those twenty five thousand registered
Speaker 7: voters with a birth date of eighteen hundred, eight thousand
Speaker 7: cast votes in twenty twenty. Now, some of your listeners
Speaker 7: are going to be like, holy moly, that's voter fraud.
Speaker 7: It's probably not what happens in a lot of different
Speaker 7: computer systems, and this is happening in New Jersey system.
Speaker 7: If they don't have a data berth for a voter,
Speaker 7: they stick eighteen hundred in there as a placeholder. They
Speaker 7: didn't have anything else. So eight thousand voters in New
Speaker 7: Jersey cast votes in twenty twenty. That state election officials
Speaker 7: don't know when those voters were born. Now that's a
Speaker 7: problem all by itself, and it's one that election officials
Speaker 7: in New Jersey still haven't fixed. They have really really
Speaker 7: dirty data, right, and you see all kinds of different
Speaker 7: ways that dirty data can impact registered voters and ultimately
Speaker 7: can even impact whether people should be voting or not. Right.
Speaker 7: I think in New Jersey you might find maybe some
Speaker 7: of those eight thousand voters shouldn't have been voting for
Speaker 7: some reason, but the state can't identify who those voters are.
Speaker 7: You have to know someone's data birth to be able
Speaker 7: to identify them using data, and New Jersey can't do that.
Speaker 7: New York has a very similar problem and some worse ones.
Speaker 7: And I don't want to get too far into it,
Speaker 7: but there are millions of votes that happen in New
Speaker 7: York State in twenty twenty by voters that they cannot
Speaker 7: identify because those voters don't have a social Security number
Speaker 7: of driver's license on file with election. That's an extraordinary thing,
Speaker 7: and it's a huge problem for New York election officials
Speaker 7: because they can't possibly maintain the data in their system
Speaker 7: without having that information. That's just two examples. When you
Speaker 7: move from one state to another, some states are able
Speaker 7: to track down the movement and cancel the registration for
Speaker 7: when somebody moves from state to state. A lot of
Speaker 7: other states cannot, and so we end up with people
Speaker 7: with duplicate registrations. We end up sometimes with people with
Speaker 7: four or five duplicated registrations. There's all manner of stuff
Speaker 7: like that that's happening. And for me, as a technology professional,
Speaker 7: I can't stand the fact that our elections depend on
Speaker 7: data that at times can be extraordinarily dirty. And we
Speaker 7: have the techechnology and the means to fix this, and
Speaker 7: I think it's criminal that we don't.
Speaker 1: And of course we've got a lot of jurisdictions where
Speaker 1: they want to give the vote to even non citizens.
Speaker 1: So I mean it's like there's this whole spectrum of
Speaker 1: what is out there. So, in your opinion, how do
Speaker 1: we what's the best way to fix this? I mean,
Speaker 1: do you have to have some kind of a national
Speaker 1: standard and some kind of inspectors. I mean, I think
Speaker 1: one of the reasons we have the kind of system
Speaker 1: that we've got is because there was an aversion to
Speaker 1: centralizing things because if you centralize things, now you've got
Speaker 1: one point that you can corrupt or you can infiltrate,
Speaker 1: and now you've got the entire system. So there's a
Speaker 1: danger in centralization as well. How would this work out?
Speaker 7: So leaving any ideology out of my answer, as a technologist.
Speaker 7: The only sane way to conduct our federal elections is
Speaker 7: with a federal voter registration database. If we got rid
Speaker 7: of the fifty different implementations of the voter registration that
Speaker 7: we have right now. In fact, it's way more than fifty.
Speaker 7: Most large states make the responsibility of elections at the
Speaker 7: county level, and so in many ways we have as
Speaker 7: many as four thousand or five thousand different election systems
Speaker 7: that all do things a bit differently from each other
Speaker 7: technologically speaking, the right answer, and we would eliminate most
Speaker 7: of the voter integrity issues that we suffer from if
Speaker 7: we had a federalized voter registry. I understand with states'
Speaker 7: rights and a whole bunch of either ideological arguments or
Speaker 7: even the security argument of well, you know, if you
Speaker 7: have just one, you know what happens. I don't believe
Speaker 7: that the voting should happen on a federal level with
Speaker 7: just one system, but I do believe that the voter
Speaker 7: registration should be done that way. So if somebody hacks
Speaker 7: a voter registration system, and by the way, how many
Speaker 7: counties do you know that have high quality data employees
Speaker 7: working for them technologists?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 16: Uh?
Speaker 7: The lower down we pushed the conduct of our elections.
Speaker 7: I believe the more likely it is that those the
Speaker 7: county level is where it's most likely that you can
Speaker 7: see successful hacking, because they just don't have the technological
Speaker 7: expertise that you need, as you would as you move
Speaker 7: your move your way up the chain to state level
Speaker 7: technologists and ultimately federal level technologists. Uh.
Speaker 1: And of course we've also seen I've also seen the
Speaker 1: CIA and the n s A and the FBI and
Speaker 1: as well, from the top to the bottom is vulnerable.
Speaker 1: So you know, it's a real quite, it's a real quandary.
Speaker 7: So you know, voter registration in a lot of ways
Speaker 7: is less. Uh, the danger of a hack there is
Speaker 7: lower than the danger of a hack to an actual
Speaker 7: election system that conducts the process of our election. Right right,
Speaker 7: So I don't believe I believe it would be wrong
Speaker 7: to have federalized voting. I only talk about the voter
Speaker 7: registration with an eye towards the cleanest data that we
Speaker 7: can have. Uh, you know, we live, we live in it.
Speaker 7: We live in a in a society, in an age
Speaker 7: where there probably isn't a computer system anywhere that's hardened
Speaker 7: well enough to prevent someone who's really determined to get
Speaker 7: at it to get at it. Uh, you have to
Speaker 7: watch it really carefully, and you have to see what.
Speaker 7: You have to have the surveillance systems in place to
Speaker 7: know when it's happening and to stop it before it goes.
Speaker 7: You can put that sort of stuff in front of
Speaker 7: a system like the If we were to do a
Speaker 7: federalized voter registration system, I think that that system should
Speaker 7: all have biometrics on it. You know, we use social
Speaker 7: security numbers as the most sensitive identifier we have. Right,
Speaker 7: if you're working at a job, you have to supply
Speaker 7: your social Security number. It's how you file your taxes,
Speaker 7: all this stuff. You have to give a social Security
Speaker 7: number to any banks that you want to open up
Speaker 7: bank accounts with. And the problem is hackers have every
Speaker 7: one of our social security numbers, all of them, right,
Speaker 7: They've been hacked so many times it's no longer secure.
Speaker 7: I think we should replace social security numbers with a
Speaker 7: new identifier. We're the only first world country that doesn't
Speaker 7: have a national identifier.
Speaker 1: Well, what happens if you do a biometric and somebody
Speaker 1: steals your your database. Now they're stolen your face. What
Speaker 1: do you do. I mean, if they steal your pass
Speaker 1: code or something, you get a new one to go
Speaker 1: get plastic surgery or to vote again, what do you
Speaker 1: do with that? To me, that's a big issue. And
Speaker 1: of course, you know, when we look at equating, you
Speaker 1: know a lot of us have very very strong concerns
Speaker 1: about you know, creating a centralized state where we have
Speaker 1: to have some kind of a centralized ID. You know,
Speaker 1: that kind of flows into a CBDC type of scenario
Speaker 1: and other other concerns about a global ID, and so
Speaker 1: that that gets a lot a lot of people to
Speaker 1: take the safety off their gun when you start talking
Speaker 1: about that, Dimathe.
Speaker 7: No, I get it, I get it. But if your
Speaker 7: concern is election integrity, the biggest threat to integrity is
Speaker 7: the way we currently conduct the election. I mean, that's
Speaker 7: that's just a simple statement of fact.
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, and you know, as unwieldy as it is,
Speaker 1: you know, when they ran elections in Iraq, what they
Speaker 1: did was they did on one day and you know,
Speaker 1: they couldn't tell these people are legitimate if they'd walked
Speaker 1: across the border, but they could keep them from voting
Speaker 1: multiple times. And so you would go in and you'd
Speaker 1: vote on paper, and then you would get this indelible
Speaker 1: stain on your thumb that's going to be there for
Speaker 1: the rest of the day, so that you couldn't vote again.
Speaker 1: If we go ultra crude like that, I know it's
Speaker 1: a big hassle to count this stuff, but I mean,
Speaker 1: if people really wanted a system, they would invest the
Speaker 1: time in terms of maybe volunteering or something like that.
Speaker 1: I know that's idealistic, but I mean, why not go
Speaker 1: ultra low tech one day and the purple thumb?
Speaker 7: I mean, how many elections that way? Do you hear
Speaker 7: stories about a whole bunch of ballots being stuffed anyway?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 7: Even people have inkstained hands, that doesn't handle the physical
Speaker 7: security of the actual ballot box sitting there. You know, Look,
Speaker 7: I live in a state where it wasn't all that
Speaker 7: long ago where some elected officials were arrested driving around
Speaker 7: with a bunch of absentee ballots in the trunks of
Speaker 7: their cars.
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, and we saw that going back to the
Speaker 1: nineteen sixties, or reports of people driving around with the
Speaker 1: voting machines in the back of their car and that
Speaker 1: type of thing. You're always going to have that I
Speaker 1: guess the thing for me personally, and I've talked about this,
Speaker 1: I said, because what scares me about the computerized voting
Speaker 1: is that if you're able to hack the actual voting system,
Speaker 1: you know, different from the from the ID stuff, but
Speaker 1: if you're able to hack the actual voting system that
Speaker 1: gives you access from a remote area to be able
Speaker 1: to manipulate things across the country, or you can manipulate
Speaker 1: from the top of the ballot to the bottom of
Speaker 1: the ballot. I mean once you get if you get
Speaker 1: in there, the payoff is so incredibly large that it
Speaker 1: really is a big honeypot, you know, for people. In
Speaker 1: terms of the allure, I think, no.
Speaker 7: No, differently than casino systems, right, and in a lot
Speaker 7: of ways, the you know, rigging a casino machine to
Speaker 7: walk out the door with a million dollars in cash,
Speaker 7: in a lot of ways is probably a bigger prize
Speaker 7: and than most other things. And the industry has dealt
Speaker 7: with that threat. We can deal with the threat of
Speaker 7: the hacking and the cyber attacks on election systems, We
Speaker 7: really can. It really comes down to a question of
Speaker 7: will and money. But I don't know how we don't
Speaker 7: insist that the same protections that go into slot machines
Speaker 7: aren't already in most of the machines that conduct our elections.
Speaker 7: I know some of the machines that conduct our elections
Speaker 7: do have this in there. They all should have it,
Speaker 7: and if we have that, I think we can all
Speaker 7: rest a bit easier about it.
Speaker 1: Well, it's a good analogy. I guess we'll end on that.
Speaker 1: I think that there's many analogies that could be drawn
Speaker 1: between the electoral system and the casino. The house always wins,
Speaker 1: I think in both cases. But that is very interesting,
Speaker 1: and I'm sure I haven't had a chance to read
Speaker 1: your book. I didn't get a copy of it yet
Speaker 1: because I wanted to get you on quickly, but I'm
Speaker 1: sure it is very interesting. I think people be interested
Speaker 1: to see what you found that people are still talking about,
Speaker 1: and more importantly, what does that portend for the election
Speaker 1: that's coming up now and I guess maybe about ninety
Speaker 1: days or something like that, and what can we do.
Speaker 1: Certainly there's not going to be a thing that we
Speaker 1: can do to fix it between now and then, but
Speaker 1: it gives us some idea of what we can still expect.
Speaker 1: But then we really do need to take I think
Speaker 1: one thing. Everybody agrees that we need to do something
Speaker 1: to make the electoral system more trustworthy, that people have
Speaker 1: a confidence that their vote is counted and counted accurately.
Speaker 1: I think that is a paramount importance, and so it's
Speaker 1: very I'm glad to see that you wrote a book
Speaker 1: about your experience with that. And again, the book is
Speaker 1: disproven my unbiased search for voter fraud for the Trump
Speaker 1: campaign and the data that shows why he lost and
Speaker 1: how we can improve our elections. And by the way,
Speaker 1: you can find this at kenblock dot com. There's a
Speaker 1: link there to buy the book and you can get
Speaker 1: information about it. There. Anything else you'd like to tell
Speaker 1: us about the book before we run out of time.
Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean, look, the back of the book is
Speaker 7: the most important part of the book. Fixing our elections
Speaker 7: is patriotic, it's mission critical. It's the most important thing.
Speaker 7: Michael Lindell and I disagreed about the outcome of the elections,
Speaker 7: but we were in sync on the need to make
Speaker 7: changes to make things happen better. I've spoken to Republican
Speaker 7: secretaries of state, I've spoken to Democratic secretaries of state.
Speaker 7: There is a lot of over agreement overlap in agreement
Speaker 7: on some of the things that we should be doing
Speaker 7: to make our elections better. And we need to move
Speaker 7: beyond where we're at in terms of our discussions of
Speaker 7: elections and looking backwards and dealing with whatever happens here
Speaker 7: in November. To move forward, we need to have an
Speaker 7: adult conversation about making our elections better and get in
Speaker 7: to it and taking this moment in time to really
Speaker 7: improve things.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree, And it's not just that we would
Speaker 1: like to get the right answers, but I mean, in
Speaker 1: this time of polarization, Uh, if we don't have trustworthy elections,
Speaker 1: I'm very concerned that the you know, the civil war
Speaker 1: over it or something like that. A lot of talk
Speaker 1: about that on both sides, and so, uh, it's it's
Speaker 1: having something that you trust, that you can audit that
Speaker 1: is that is really key. So again, you've got the
Speaker 1: second half of your book is about your recommendations for
Speaker 1: how to do that from somebody who is an expert
Speaker 1: on auditing it. And you've seen the tricks that can
Speaker 1: be pulled, and so that is no system is going
Speaker 1: to be perfect. Any system can be infiltrated and has
Speaker 1: its own flaws and so the question is what do
Speaker 1: we do to try to minimize that and mitigate those risks.
Speaker 1: So thank you so much for the work that you do.
Speaker 1: And again you can find this at kenblock dot com
Speaker 1: and the book is disproven. Thank you so much, sir,
Speaker 1: appreciate it.
Speaker 7: Thanks.
Speaker 3: Hearing of biased and false news has all too common
Speaker 3: on social media.
Speaker 7: More learning.
Speaker 11: First, unfortunately, exactly, and this is extremely dangerous to our democracy.
Speaker 10: This is extremely dangerous to our democracy.
Speaker 8: This is extremely dangerous to our democracy.
Speaker 12: This is extremely dangerous to our democracy.
Speaker 13: This is extremely dangerous to our democracy.
Speaker 9: This is extremely dangerous to our democracy.
Speaker 14: This is extremely dangerous to our democracy.
Speaker 15: This is extremely dangerous to our democracy.
Speaker 16: This is extremely dangerous to our democracy.
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Speaker 17: Pop Pop Pop Pop Taata Papa Papa Papa Poppo pop.
Speaker 1: All right, we're back, and I wanted to talk to
Speaker 1: Lisa Hanson, who was kind enough to come on and
Speaker 1: tell us her story about what happened to her as
Speaker 1: a small business person during the lockdown under a kind
Speaker 1: of medical martial law and a governor who was one
Speaker 1: of the worst tyrants there. The vice presidential candidate for
Speaker 1: the Democrats now Tim Walls, and I want people to
Speaker 1: remember what happened during this They want to flush this
Speaker 1: down in the memory hole, but they want to do
Speaker 1: that because they want to bring it back. We have
Speaker 1: to remember what happened and say never again. Lisa is
Speaker 1: a wife, mother, and grandmother. She married her high school
Speaker 1: sweetheart at the age of eighteen and never looked back,
Speaker 1: she says. Lisa and her husband have eight beautiful children
Speaker 1: and by the end of the year they will have
Speaker 1: eighteen grandchildren. Congratulations, that's wonderful. They've owned and operated businesses
Speaker 1: for well over thirty years. They know what they're doing.
Speaker 1: Most businesses, if they're going to fail, they fail within
Speaker 1: the first five years. You've done this for thirty years,
Speaker 1: So thank you for joining us. Lisa, I appreciate you
Speaker 1: coming on and telling us your story.
Speaker 6: Thank you so much.
Speaker 1: Tell us a bit about your business. Well, thank you,
Speaker 1: and thank you for what you're doing, and thank you
Speaker 1: for coming on and talking to people, because it's important
Speaker 1: we don't forget this. Tell people a little bit about
Speaker 1: what your business was like before the so called pandemic.
Speaker 3: Oh man, it was a thriving business. It was located
Speaker 3: right in the heart of the historical downtown part of
Speaker 3: Albert Lee, Minnesota, and a thriving business. I say that
Speaker 3: because it was a well loved business, not only by
Speaker 3: the locals of the area, but we did a specialty coffee,
Speaker 3: special tea, sandwiches, pastries, specialty even so I would say
Speaker 3: specialty wine because we had some great selection of wine
Speaker 3: and beers, and a lot of fun. We had, you know,
Speaker 3: a little night life going on. We had live music.
Speaker 3: We just had the whole gamut of a really great
Speaker 3: vibe and a great experience for people just to kind
Speaker 3: of come in, turn it off and just sit and
Speaker 3: enjoy great business. I know that it was a well
Speaker 3: loved business, and I know that it is missed only
Speaker 3: because I have people still stop me on the street saying,
Speaker 3: we really miss your restaurants so great. It was kind
Speaker 3: of always a dream of mine and my husband's, and
Speaker 3: we kind of modeled our business after some of the
Speaker 3: European bistros that we have visited as we've had the
Speaker 3: opportunity to travel. So great, little business, A lot of fun,
Speaker 3: that's great. A lot of hard work, a lot of
Speaker 3: hard work, a lot of fun.
Speaker 1: Now you poured a lot of work, poured a lot
Speaker 1: of money into it. You knew the people that were there,
Speaker 1: and that's characteristic of small mom and pop businesses. That's
Speaker 1: the way we ran our business as well. We got
Speaker 1: I know, the customers on a regular basis that would
Speaker 1: come in and of course you you know, were in
Speaker 1: an area there was a tourist area, so you had
Speaker 1: a lot of people would pass through there and then
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, you're declared non essential. And that
Speaker 1: was one of the things that really bothered me that
Speaker 1: happened to us. Once during a major storm, they allowed
Speaker 1: walmarts open up, but they declared us to be non essential,
Speaker 1: and they sent the police around to shut us down
Speaker 1: when we opened up. And to me, one of the
Speaker 1: key things that really bothered me about this whole lockdown
Speaker 1: is how they would say that the big Wall Street companies,
Speaker 1: the big big box companies that trade their stock on
Speaker 1: Wall Street, they're essential, like the walmarts. But all the
Speaker 1: mom and pops are not essential because most of the
Speaker 1: mom and pops are going to be involved in service businesses.
Speaker 1: And so they came after the restaurants, and they came
Speaker 1: after the nail salons and the barbershops and all the
Speaker 1: rest of this stuff that were in service businesses and
Speaker 1: said you're non essential and we're going to shut you down.
Speaker 1: They came after Main Street while they protected Wall Stree
Speaker 1: and they called us non essential. So what was it
Speaker 1: like when this all rolled out? What happened?
Speaker 3: And in contrast, Governor Walls shut down all those businesses
Speaker 3: that you just mentioned. And in contrast, he allowed the
Speaker 3: big box stores to stay open, the liquor stores and
Speaker 3: the strip clubs because they were essential all of.
Speaker 1: These business Churches are churches are no?
Speaker 3: Oh no, He shut the churches down, He shut the
Speaker 3: schools down. It went on and on, and it was
Speaker 3: what was it?
Speaker 9: Life?
Speaker 3: Urs? It was shocking. You know, we've never been through
Speaker 3: anything like this in our time in this country, which
Speaker 3: has been from birth, so we've never seen anything like this.
Speaker 3: It was shocking. The state of Minnesota, I think, took
Speaker 3: the path of you know, communism. There's no doubt about that.
Speaker 3: The governor had no right or authority, I should say,
Speaker 3: to do what he did, but yet he did it,
Speaker 3: and he got away with it. It still has gotten
Speaker 3: away with it. There's been no accountability for that, and
Speaker 3: there should have been. There was a lot of I
Speaker 3: believe that he has acted criminally. The governor has acted criminally,
Speaker 3: and he should be he should be prosecuted.
Speaker 1: I agree, Yeah, I agree. And the problem is that
Speaker 1: they're not doing it because everybody was on board with it,
Speaker 1: you know, everybody. It was the democratic governors, and yet
Speaker 1: I look at what happened with the wine in Ohio.
Speaker 1: He is one of the worst ones as well. He's
Speaker 1: a Republican. And they had practiced this for twenty years.
Speaker 1: The first one of these Germ Games two months before
Speaker 1: nine to eleven. Then they put out the model state
Speaker 1: legislation for the states to enact to give themselves the
Speaker 1: power because they didn't want to directly order it from Washington. Instead,
Speaker 1: they you know, Trump financed the money and when people
Speaker 1: were really up against it and had lost jobs and
Speaker 1: lost were losing businesses and everything. He tries to paper
Speaker 1: it over and assuage their anger by putting out the
Speaker 1: PPP and the Cares Act. How did that help? Did
Speaker 1: that help you out?
Speaker 3: We were hanging on by a thread and we had
Speaker 3: really you know, used up all of our resources as owners.
Speaker 3: And the second shutdown came along. In the first shutdown
Speaker 3: happened in March of twenty twenty. Then the second shutdown
Speaker 3: came around twenty twenty. Now keep in mind we were
Speaker 3: never fully opened by the governor's governor Dictator Wallas's word.
Speaker 3: So in all the while from March all the way
Speaker 3: up to November of the second full shutdown on these
Speaker 3: particular non essential businesses, we we realized.
Speaker 6: This is not right.
Speaker 3: He does not have the authority. As we started digging
Speaker 3: in and learning because David, unlike you, I have just
Speaker 3: started learning and becoming aware of my eyes opening in
Speaker 3: the really being opened in the last you know, four
Speaker 3: years or so and shocking experience, trying to wrap our
Speaker 3: heads around everything that we believed, almost everything that we
Speaker 3: believed was a lie. Yes, so that it just your
Speaker 3: eyes continue to be open and at the time, what
Speaker 3: do you do with that? You know, when we were
Speaker 3: going through this in twenty twenty, we we did consent
Speaker 3: because we didn't know what else to do, to be
Speaker 3: honest with you, until the second full shutdown came for
Speaker 3: dine in restaurants being one of the businesses that was
Speaker 3: shut down. Ours was a ninety ninety five percent dining
Speaker 3: in company, and there's no way that we could have survived.
Speaker 3: We didn't really survive. We were hanging on by a thread,
Speaker 3: and not even really that. I told my husband, I said,
Speaker 3: if he does this again, if he goes, if he
Speaker 3: shuts us down completely, if he shuts us down at
Speaker 3: all any more than what we already are, and we're
Speaker 3: almost done anyway, We're almost down of business because we've
Speaker 3: exhausted everything we've got. Right, you know how that works.
Speaker 3: You've got to have revenue coming in to be able
Speaker 3: to you know, pay your bills, pay your employees, and
Speaker 3: advance the business.
Speaker 1: Right, So let's talk about how it rolled out, you know,
Speaker 1: because did he roll us out kind of gradually and
Speaker 1: iteratively like any of this?
Speaker 3: So how did he roll Yeah, it was it was
Speaker 3: two weeks shut down, one hundred percent. No nobody can
Speaker 3: come in your business right two weeks, but the two
Speaker 3: weeks turned into two and one half months. Wow, and
Speaker 3: then he back started backing off. Okay, you can be
Speaker 3: seventy five percent open. Okay, you can be fifty percent open,
Speaker 3: twenty five percent. Then when November came, then it was
Speaker 3: full full board. You know, you're one hundred percent shut down. Again.
Speaker 3: You can do take out, carry out delivery right, all
Speaker 3: of those, but you can't do any dying ins and
Speaker 3: again for most businesses, and none of it made any sense.
Speaker 1: No, no, I did not even with their with their
Speaker 1: you know, if you completely buy into their pandemic narrative,
Speaker 1: their virus narratives or relative none of it made any sense.
Speaker 1: In Finally, and uh, you know when you talk about
Speaker 1: a business like a restaurant and it similar to the
Speaker 1: type of business we were in, you know that most
Speaker 1: of your business is going to happen like Friday nights
Speaker 1: and Saturdays and stuff like that. So if they cut
Speaker 1: you down to fifty percent at your peak hours, you
Speaker 1: still can't cover what is happening. You know, it isn't
Speaker 1: evenly distributed. It's all clumped into the weekends and things
Speaker 1: like that. So if they limit your maximum capacity. They
Speaker 1: can put you out of business pretty easily, right and
Speaker 1: think about it.
Speaker 3: Back in November of twenty twenty, pretty much the rest
Speaker 3: of the country was opened up, and Walls was still
Speaker 3: shutting us down. Obviously, there were other places that were
Speaker 3: still dealing with shutdowns as well lockdowns, but Minnesota we
Speaker 3: were completely done with this, and I told my husband,
Speaker 3: I said, we have two choices we can we either
Speaker 3: Choice number one would be to shut down, close our business.
Speaker 3: Excuse me for us to close our dream business and
Speaker 3: to walk away done and figure out how to pay
Speaker 3: off the debt. You know, even though we were not
Speaker 3: turning any revenue, so close our doors forever. Or Option
Speaker 3: number two was to open up fully because why not
Speaker 3: we have that right. There was no law. I did
Speaker 3: not violate any laws. I'm a law abiding I'm a
Speaker 3: law biding citizen, a law biding grammar, and so no
Speaker 3: laws were broken, and so we decided we took option
Speaker 3: number two. With the help of an organization in Minnesota
Speaker 3: that put together a plan of action. I thought it
Speaker 3: was a very solid plan. They invited all businesses that
Speaker 3: wanted you to open up together on the same day.
Speaker 3: I thought it was a great plan and here's what
Speaker 3: you know. They gave suggestions on how this would be,
Speaker 3: how we would orchestrate this. And if you get the
Speaker 3: call from the state, which you likely will, you're going
Speaker 3: to here. Here's what we suggest that you say. And
Speaker 3: so anyway, the plan rolled out, we got on board.
Speaker 3: I forget the exact date, December, I apologize.
Speaker 1: But what other should other businesses? Did other businesses join
Speaker 1: with you?
Speaker 2: Just?
Speaker 1: Good? Good? Did they?
Speaker 2: Now?
Speaker 9: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Tell us what happened then when you opened up?
Speaker 3: Right right? So just a bit of a backstory, there
Speaker 3: was about two hundred other businesses that said, yeah, we
Speaker 3: want to do this. They should have been two thousand easily,
Speaker 3: but there was two hundred. We all opened up.
Speaker 6: It was it was.
Speaker 3: Marketed, for lack of better term, that we were opening.
Speaker 3: So people, if you were in favor of supporting these
Speaker 3: businesses here they are, go support them, go patronize them.
Speaker 3: Which it was amazing. We had so much support coming
Speaker 3: from all over the state and other states as well
Speaker 3: there to support us on that first day and that
Speaker 3: whole week after, and then it just continued. So what
Speaker 3: happened though, David, and this was the fail two hundred
Speaker 3: businesses approximately two hundred give or take signed up to
Speaker 3: get on board about within twenty four hours after there
Speaker 3: were only ten of us were still open. Everybody else
Speaker 3: had consented to close down.
Speaker 1: Really, ah, now people aren't willing to stand up for
Speaker 1: their freedom, Like you said, it should have been two
Speaker 1: thousand or more, twenty thousand or whatever. And you know,
Speaker 1: of the ones who sign up, only a five percent
Speaker 1: hung with it. That's amazing.
Speaker 3: It is amazing and very sad. It was very so
Speaker 3: because now basically, and I know that it wasn't. You know, again,
Speaker 3: I have some grace for these folks and for people
Speaker 3: that don't understand, because I was really forced into a
Speaker 3: position to become educated and understand more than what I
Speaker 3: had ever anticipated. And it just my education continues, you know.
Speaker 3: Here we are four years later and I'm still learning.
Speaker 3: So so there was only about ten of us left open,
Speaker 3: and you know, the state can handle. That state can come.
Speaker 3: If it had been two hundred, the state wouldn't have
Speaker 3: been able to handle. And that was the whole, you know,
Speaker 3: point of doing this, but show the state we were
Speaker 3: not we're not consenting to their tyrannical orders which carry
Speaker 3: no weight of law.
Speaker 2: So unfortunately.
Speaker 1: Frank said, we either hang together or we hanged separately.
Speaker 1: Because the wouldn't hang together. You all hung separately. So
Speaker 1: what did they do when they came after you?
Speaker 3: Yeah, when they came after me, of course, every they
Speaker 3: used every resource they have as the state, and of
Speaker 3: course it's the state. They have a lot of resources,
Speaker 3: no end to their resources. So I was issued to
Speaker 3: cease and desist immediately, within twenty four hours, I believe
Speaker 3: it was. And of course I did not cease and desist.
Speaker 3: And then they started throwing lawsuits at me. So I
Speaker 3: believe I had in total five civil cases against me
Speaker 3: and two criminal cases against me.
Speaker 1: Wow. Yeah, And so then what happened with these cases?
Speaker 3: So we went to court and we fought everything. We
Speaker 3: appealed everything all the way up to the supretor. I
Speaker 3: shouldn't say everything, but most of these cases, most of
Speaker 3: the decisions we objected. There was no due process for myself.
Speaker 3: That was completely denied through and through. I don't even
Speaker 3: think these judicials, of these judges actually even read my
Speaker 3: document all the way through, or the countless documents that
Speaker 3: I submitted to the court. So what happened long story
Speaker 3: short is we went to trial on one of the
Speaker 3: criminal cases in twenty twenty one, And yes, it was
Speaker 3: twenty twenty one December, and I went in front of
Speaker 3: a jury of six pre trial determined a very terrible thing.
Speaker 3: That is again, I can't believe it still, I just
Speaker 3: can't believe in an American court of law, it was
Speaker 3: determined that I would not be allowed to present my defense.
Speaker 3: My defense being constitutional, statutory, and case law, all relevant
Speaker 3: of course to the case, all relevant to this mandate
Speaker 3: that the governor had considered, and a lot of people
Speaker 3: considered law, it was not law.
Speaker 7: So we we.
Speaker 3: Thought that we objected to that stipulation, of course, because
Speaker 3: I should have been allowed to present my defense to
Speaker 3: the jury. But it was and of course we objected
Speaker 3: to that decision that the judge had made. Didn't matter.
Speaker 3: The judges in lockstep with all the other judges that
Speaker 3: I faced, all the way up to the Supreme Court,
Speaker 3: they're all in this together. They're in it with the
Speaker 3: governor and attorney Let's not forget Attorney General Keith Ellison.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, a very wicked eagle man.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, sorrow sorrows guy. He's one of the state
Speaker 1: attorneys general that Soros was able to get into office.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, right right, So they say you can't, can't
Speaker 1: argue your case, is going to shut it. I've seen that,
Speaker 1: by the way, and politicized cases. I've seen it over
Speaker 1: and over again, whether it's ross Ulbrick with Silk Road,
Speaker 1: whether it was the Bundy's, and I could go on
Speaker 1: and on and on. Marty God felt, they will shut down.
Speaker 1: You're presenting a defense. Did you have legal counsel? He
Speaker 1: had a lawyer reporting you, or do you represent yourself?
Speaker 3: I handled my own case as se juris or did
Speaker 3: you you want to say it?
Speaker 7: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Did you what about jury nullification? Do they have that
Speaker 1: on the books or in the constitution? And did you
Speaker 1: look at that in that minute?
Speaker 3: They do, and we did look at it, and we
Speaker 3: decided not to go that route.
Speaker 1: I have a case when somebody interviewed about a decade ago,
Speaker 1: it called himself New Jersey weed Man, and he was
Speaker 1: a heavy marijuana user and he had a lot of it,
Speaker 1: and so when they came after him, they were going
Speaker 1: to get him for trafficking. It's like, no, man, I
Speaker 1: just use all that myself for my own personal use.
Speaker 1: And when I interviewed him later on as we're doing
Speaker 1: the interview. I believe it because he lights up a
Speaker 1: joint while we're doing the interview live. But he decided.
Speaker 1: He looked at and he said, you know, they're going
Speaker 1: to send me to jail for a very long time.
Speaker 1: And so he said, I wanted to dream nullfication. He
Speaker 1: couldn't find a lawyer that was going to do it,
Speaker 1: and he said, I figured that they were probably going
Speaker 1: to be some people on board. I looked at public
Speaker 1: opinion and I realized that, you know, a little bit
Speaker 1: more than half the people were not really on board
Speaker 1: with marijuana prohibition in New Jersey. So I thought I
Speaker 1: could get some sympathy about that and try jury nullification
Speaker 1: in his first trial. It is explicitly mentioned in the
Speaker 1: New Jersey Constitution that a jury's duty is to judge
Speaker 1: not just to facts the case, but whether or not
Speaker 1: they agree with the law and the punishment. And so
Speaker 1: he put that he had that printed, and he put
Speaker 1: it up on the desk there where he was sitting,
Speaker 1: and the judge said, take that down right now. I'm
Speaker 1: going to put you in jail for contempt. And so
Speaker 1: he put it down, but he said the jury had
Speaker 1: already seen it, and they voted seven to twelve to
Speaker 1: quit him, so it was a hung jury. And so
Speaker 1: then the district attorney came after him a second time,
Speaker 1: and in the second trial he did the same thing,
Speaker 1: but that judge let it stay up and what was
Speaker 1: in the constitution there, and they quitted him twelve to nothing.
Speaker 1: So there's nothing they could do about it. And that's
Speaker 1: where I had them on to talk about dream mulification.
Speaker 1: But that's a very powerful thing if it's there. But again,
Speaker 1: you know, in these politicized cases, these judges rig everything.
Speaker 1: I've seen it over and over again.
Speaker 3: Oh it was, it was rigged, and I've not seen it.
Speaker 3: I mean, this was my first experience. It was my
Speaker 3: first experience to be, you know, in trouble with the law,
Speaker 3: if you will, to be in a quarter of law.
Speaker 3: I had never been through anything.
Speaker 7: I was.
Speaker 3: I was extremely ignorant as to how all of this
Speaker 3: rolls out. And boy did I get an education. You know,
Speaker 3: I learned what a way to get an education. But
Speaker 3: I got an education, and actually I'm thankful for that today.
Speaker 3: But so right, so we were going on the premise
Speaker 3: we had some there were so many levels that we
Speaker 3: were hitting as far as this is unconstitutional, this is
Speaker 3: even not when when emergency executive order that Governor Walls issued,
Speaker 3: Actually the emergency executive order doesn't speak to the people
Speaker 3: directly to the people or control over the people or
Speaker 3: to dictate the people's lives. Emergency executive order applied to
Speaker 3: the executive branch. It applied to those that worked in
Speaker 3: the executive branch. And we proved that on paper using
Speaker 3: the all all the resources that we needed to use,
Speaker 3: and it was ignored. It was absolutely ignored. Anything that
Speaker 3: should have caused this case to be absolutely dismissed, thrown out,
Speaker 3: they just ignored. They did not answer any of our
Speaker 3: objections or any of our facts to the situation. They
Speaker 3: didn't answer any of our documents at all. And again,
Speaker 3: every every level, every court was in lockstep with the
Speaker 3: with the previous court agree with the Okay, so you
Speaker 3: are much more familiar.
Speaker 1: You know, ring back thirty years ago when I was
Speaker 1: involved with third party politics, I knew people who were
Speaker 1: also involved in third party politics who had been to
Speaker 1: prison because there were tax protesters or because they were
Speaker 1: sovereign citizens or whatever, and they had they would talk
Speaker 1: to me about They would say, yeah, I came in,
Speaker 1: here's my case. Here's what I said to them, and
Speaker 1: I made the legal point, and the judge like except me, says,
Speaker 1: next point, we're not going to talk about that. And
Speaker 1: and I've heard that story over and over again, same
Speaker 1: thing they did to you railroading people. I says. Why
Speaker 1: I say, people, be very careful if you're going to
Speaker 1: become a tax protester or a sovereign citizen, because you're
Speaker 1: not going to get a fair trial. You can be right,
Speaker 1: it can be one hundred percent right, and you're not
Speaker 1: going to get a fair trial if this is a
Speaker 1: political issue. And again I've seen it in these other things,
Speaker 1: like with Silk Road. They wanted to come after the
Speaker 1: quote unquote dark web and bitcoin and things like that.
Speaker 1: So if they've got a political agenda, and they certainly
Speaker 1: got a political agenda when it comes to the income
Speaker 1: tax stuff, they will just the word goes out. They
Speaker 1: know what they're doing and they're gonna they're gonna shut
Speaker 1: you down. Peter Schiff's father, Irwin shift I met him.
Speaker 1: He was at a convention and he was, you know,
Speaker 1: standing there like Lenny Bruce after his trials for speech
Speaker 1: and everything, and he was up on a box like
Speaker 1: a soapbox, and he's talking about his trial and going
Speaker 1: through the transcript and anything. So I said this, and
Speaker 1: then they just said, you know, just threw that out
Speaker 1: and all the rest of the stuff. But this is
Speaker 1: what the law says. And so I've seen that over
Speaker 1: and over again, how crooked and dishonest our courts are.
Speaker 1: And that's why the jury nullification thing is so important.
Speaker 1: But most people don't have the courage and the conviction
Speaker 1: to do what you did, which is to defy this tyranny.
Speaker 1: And that's what's necessary, because if you don't have people
Speaker 1: who are going to stand up to it again, like
Speaker 1: you said, I that had two hundred businesses or even more,
Speaker 1: they could have stopped this. But if it's only a
Speaker 1: couple of people, they won't hammer you down right exactly.
Speaker 3: And that's that is what happened. There was a handful
Speaker 3: of us that were you know, destroyed our livelihood, our
Speaker 3: businesses were destroyed. And I've had the opportunity to meet
Speaker 3: these other people in the state, and mostly women, by
Speaker 3: the way, because these that's who these tyrants see, you know,
Speaker 3: they go after the women they love to I mean,
Speaker 3: Attorney General Attorney General Keith Ellison has a history of
Speaker 3: being a woman beater. That's what he's known for.
Speaker 1: So anyway, maybe he could get a medal at the
Speaker 1: Olympics for that. I understand giving him away for that.
Speaker 1: There was a similar case in Dallas, for example. Clay
Speaker 1: Jenkins was the chief elected official in Dallas County. They
Speaker 1: call him judges in Texas. And Shelley Luther you may
Speaker 1: remember her. She had a nail salon or something, and
Speaker 1: he came after her and wanted to throw her in jail,
Speaker 1: and of course some other people. I think the governor
Speaker 1: may have intervened in that particular case, Governor Rabbit. But
Speaker 1: this guy, Clay Jenkins. A couple of years prior to that,
Speaker 1: they had an illegal immigrant who had come into the
Speaker 1: country and he had ebola, and Clay Jenkins was coming
Speaker 1: in and telling everybody, it's a big deal. It's not
Speaker 1: a big deal. Look, you know, we got football games
Speaker 1: coming up. We got Dallas and Houston are playing. Go
Speaker 1: to the football game. It's not anything to worry about.
Speaker 1: We got all these hospitals, they can treat you with anything.
Speaker 1: And they took this guy and this guy did not
Speaker 1: This guy did die and he got two nurses sick.
Speaker 1: They had Fauci come in, Francis Collins come in, everybody saying, oh,
Speaker 1: it's great, it's no problem. But then when Shelley Luther
Speaker 1: and this is you know, Bolo was serious and they
Speaker 1: killed that guy, Shelley Luther says, I'm not going to
Speaker 1: shut down. And the same guy who was telling everybody
Speaker 1: go ahead and do everything comes after her and I'm
Speaker 1: going to put her in jail. I mean, it's amazing
Speaker 1: how inconsistent and hypocritical they are and how they will
Speaker 1: focus this. It was totally political. It was psychological what
Speaker 1: they were doing. Now, did they put you in jail?
Speaker 3: They did put you in jail, right, They sure did
Speaker 3: put me in jail, my first time ever in jail. Wow,
Speaker 3: hopefully the last.
Speaker 1: And it was ninety days.
Speaker 10: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I was sentenced to the full the maximum penalty
Speaker 3: and as the jury found me guilty on all I
Speaker 3: believe it was six six charges, so right it was.
Speaker 3: They sentenced me to ninety I served sixty and it was.
Speaker 3: It was quite the experience, the whole thing, the whole
Speaker 3: thing was quite the experience. Hopefully never to have to
Speaker 3: repeat it again. But here we are And was it.
Speaker 1: Local or was it state? You mentioned that, Keith Elson,
Speaker 1: So it was just a state prosecution where they came
Speaker 1: after you.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it was. It was a state. But of course,
Speaker 3: now in the criminal case cases, they had to get
Speaker 3: somebody in the county or city to prosecute. The state
Speaker 3: could not prosecute me on the criminal charges directly, so
Speaker 3: they had to prosecute. They ended up I believe that
Speaker 3: the county attorney, he did not take the case. I
Speaker 3: don't know if he refused. I don't know any of
Speaker 3: the details there. I could probably submit a foy and
Speaker 3: find out, but I have not done that. It was
Speaker 3: the prosecutor ended up being the city attorney of Albert Lee, Minnesota.
Speaker 3: And Albert Lee just you know here here we raised
Speaker 3: our family in the area for at that point, for
Speaker 3: about thirty years whatever. It was big family. All of
Speaker 3: our children lived in the area at that time, almost
Speaker 3: all of them. We had another business, which was my
Speaker 3: husband's company that we had built thirty year business and
Speaker 3: that was right there in Albert Lee. And yet I
Speaker 3: was treated, I was treated as an actual criminal. I had,
Speaker 3: you know, we had churched in the area. I had
Speaker 3: volunteered and worked in children's ministries for decades. So you
Speaker 3: put all this together and then the city just you know,
Speaker 3: allows you to be prosecuted and persecuted. It was shameful
Speaker 3: for Albert Lee to allow this. They didn't have to
Speaker 3: allow it, but nobody stood up. I had a conversations
Speaker 3: my husband, I had conversations with the sheriff at the time,
Speaker 3: with the chief of police. We'd invite them in, sit
Speaker 3: down and have a cup of coffee in our restaurant,
Speaker 3: and they were there. They were with me. They were
Speaker 3: with me until push came to shove, and then they
Speaker 3: hands off. They didn't want to have anything to do
Speaker 3: with me because the judge got involved, and the judge
Speaker 3: signed for signed the arrest warrant, and the judge was
Speaker 3: prosecuting and persecuting. And you're right, David, it was a sham.
Speaker 3: The whole thing was a sham. And my heart goes
Speaker 3: out to all those other folks that have been through
Speaker 3: these types of situations, and I know some have been
Speaker 3: through a lot worse. You know, mine was a ninety
Speaker 3: day sentence you mentioned, you know prison sentences that are
Speaker 3: years years. Yeah, and there's no noe there.
Speaker 1: It's interesting that Shelley Luther's case, and they tried to
Speaker 1: send her to jail, but they didn't send her to jail.
Speaker 1: But it made national news. You went to jail and
Speaker 1: it didn't make national news. And I guess it's because
Speaker 1: it's coming from Minnesota. Are and well Minnesota, they can,
Speaker 1: you know. But you know, I tell people all the time,
Speaker 1: focus on what is happening at the local level, because
Speaker 1: the people at the local level can make it better
Speaker 1: or they can make it worse. We know what the
Speaker 1: Washington agenda is. We need to pay attention to what
Speaker 1: Trump did, what Biden did, and we need to understand
Speaker 1: what they did and understand they're not going to change
Speaker 1: anything about it, and that it made a big difference
Speaker 1: depending on your locality, the local people that were there,
Speaker 1: the state people that were there, and so again, in
Speaker 1: your situation, the best thing to do is to just
Speaker 1: get out of Minnesota because it's so hopelessly corrupt and
Speaker 1: slavish and you now live in I think it is Wisconsin,
Speaker 1: Is that correct?
Speaker 3: Iowa?
Speaker 7: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Oh, Iowa, Okay, Iowa. So we stay.
Speaker 3: We stayed. We stayed fairly close. We have because of
Speaker 3: all most all of our children are in southern Minnesota
Speaker 3: and northern Iowa, so well, a lot.
Speaker 1: More conservative in Iowa, that's for sure.
Speaker 3: That is for sure. Yeah, so Iowa still needs a
Speaker 3: lot of work, just probably like about every other state
Speaker 3: in the Union. But know this is a better place
Speaker 3: to be in Iowa. It took us, it took us
Speaker 3: quite a while to say, okay, we need to be
Speaker 3: out of the state. I think the last straw for us,
Speaker 3: the convincing situation event let's call it an event because
Speaker 3: it was an event that took place, was when a
Speaker 3: certain law enforcements showed up at our door unannounced, and
Speaker 3: you know, continue to I really can't talk about that
Speaker 3: yet because it's still under investigation, has been for way
Speaker 3: too long. But let's just put it this way. We
Speaker 3: know when they want you to shut up, when they
Speaker 3: want you to get out, they know they have ways,
Speaker 3: they have ways, and so persecution continued. After I got
Speaker 3: out of jail, I immediately hit the ground running and
Speaker 3: campaigned for state Senate. And so obviously the state's saying, okay,
Speaker 3: we needn't get her to shut up by putting her
Speaker 3: in jail here for sixty days. So now we're going
Speaker 3: to use other means to come after her and her
Speaker 3: family and absolutely bogus. And this is all A lot
Speaker 3: of it was perpetuated on the local level. I hate
Speaker 3: to say new Shriff at that time, and that more persecution.
Speaker 3: I'm just going to call it happened against us, and.
Speaker 2: I what do you do?
Speaker 3: What do you do when you have when you have
Speaker 3: elected public servants that are not doing their duty to
Speaker 3: the people, protecting the people, guarding the people, upholding their constitution,
Speaker 3: their constitutionally protected God given rights. That's a duty and
Speaker 3: they're not they're not performing their duties any longer.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I know what you mean about, you know,
Speaker 1: having the law enforcement show up and kind of have
Speaker 1: a show of strength. We had a situation with that.
Speaker 1: We had one of our particular locations, we'd had some
Speaker 1: video stores and so people would pull up and double
Speaker 1: park and run in and hand us the videotape sometimes,
Speaker 1: and we did have a drop box that we could
Speaker 1: do this, but you know, if they're doing that, we
Speaker 1: would just take that from them. Well, some guy decided,
Speaker 1: one of the police officers designed he's going to get
Speaker 1: a bunch of tickets, so he parked down our parking lot.
Speaker 1: Every time somebody would do that. He'd pull up, find him,
Speaker 1: give him a parking ticket, and it's like, what's going
Speaker 1: on with this? After you did it two or three times,
Speaker 1: I went out there and while he was giving them
Speaker 1: a ticket, I said, how much is that ticket going
Speaker 1: to be? All right, I'm going to give you more
Speaker 1: than that in store credits, and so I directly come
Speaker 1: and after I did that a couple of times, he
Speaker 1: went away, and then he came back with the fire
Speaker 1: department and they got a ladder truck and they parked
Speaker 1: it in the parking lot in front of our store,
Speaker 1: and the fireman started taking the police officers up in
Speaker 1: the ladder truck. And we had customers who come in
Speaker 1: and say, what's going on here? And I was like, well,
Speaker 1: let me tell you about this. I mean, I know
Speaker 1: what that's like. You know, they will do that kind
Speaker 1: of stuff, And so my heart really goes out to
Speaker 1: you with that. Tell me about did anybody else go
Speaker 1: to jail other than you?
Speaker 6: Not that I'm aware of.
Speaker 3: No, as far as I know, I'm the only one
Speaker 3: that received criminal charges. And a good friend of mine
Speaker 3: who also did a similar thing, had this state coming
Speaker 3: against her. She lives in a town quite north and
Speaker 3: west of where I live in the southern part of
Speaker 3: the state, or lived, and she their town is too
Speaker 3: small for a police department, but they do have a
Speaker 3: sheriff's office that governs their town and or protects their
Speaker 3: town supposedly. And actually I think her sheriff was a
Speaker 3: pretty good sheriff. He came to her one day and said,
Speaker 3: you know, I got the state got a hold of me,
Speaker 3: and they've asked me to prosecute you. I've told them no,
Speaker 3: I will not prosecute you. Good for him, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: she Oh, but you know, I got to tell you this,
Speaker 3: David was a real interesting story. You can you can
Speaker 3: look it up Larveda mcfarcar. She so this is just
Speaker 3: an interesting point to Larvita is a colored woman and
Speaker 3: an amazing gal she is, and our attorney general is
Speaker 3: also colored. And our attorney general made the statement, it's
Speaker 3: it's in the press, something to the effect of that
Speaker 3: he was going to send her to a work farm
Speaker 3: if she didn't obey.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: Wow, And we think you were scratching our heads thinking
Speaker 2: what in the world, Well, if happened.
Speaker 1: If La La wins and ten Walls wins. Keith Olson's
Speaker 1: probably going to get some attorney general or something of
Speaker 1: the US. I mean, that's a frightening idea, isn't it.
Speaker 7: Oh?
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: You know, what about the churches? Just at the beginning
Speaker 1: that Walls did not shut down the strip clubs, they
Speaker 1: shut down the churches. How did that play out?
Speaker 3: Unfortunately, as far as I understand in my local area,
Speaker 3: most of the churches shut down. They consented.
Speaker 1: And when did he When did he let them open
Speaker 1: up again?
Speaker 3: You know? Oh goodness, that's a that's a good question.
Speaker 3: I'm sorry. I cannot give you the date on that
Speaker 3: or the It must have been some time. I'm thinking
Speaker 3: it was in the fall or during that November the
Speaker 3: second shutdown that he I think it was around that time,
Speaker 3: a little before that time, and then it wasn't it
Speaker 3: after the first of the year. I think maybe in
Speaker 3: twenty twenty two that he kind of cleared everybody to
Speaker 3: open up again. But please don't quote me on that.
Speaker 3: I apologize. Yeah, my memory, I think I've tried to
Speaker 3: stuff some things away because they're so very unpleasant. And
Speaker 3: as we're talking and interviewing, and you know, because of
Speaker 3: this VP being Walls, it's all really starting to kind
Speaker 3: of come back and talking about it is good. So
Speaker 3: sharing this story is an important story to share, and.
Speaker 1: If we look at it, you know, we had a
Speaker 1: similar situation in Vegas. I would let the casinos open up,
Speaker 1: they wouldn't let the churches open up. So he had
Speaker 1: some people go in there and hold a church service
Speaker 1: inside of the casino to show the absurdity of that,
Speaker 1: and the Supreme Court signed on to that as well.
Speaker 1: The US Supreme Court absolutely insane. I remember the spring
Speaker 1: of twenty twenty, after a couple of weeks of this
Speaker 1: stuff or whatever, there was a guy that I interviewed
Speaker 1: out of Illinois, and of course Illinois very Pritzker, very dictatorial,
Speaker 1: just like Walls. But he had a small church in
Speaker 1: a small town and he never closed it. And the
Speaker 1: sheriff that was there was a member of that church.
Speaker 1: And so the governor was making threatening gestures and statements
Speaker 1: about all this kind of stuff and the sheriff, as
Speaker 1: you had stories coming back from all over the country
Speaker 1: about some police departments showing up and taking taking down
Speaker 1: the license plate numbers of people who had violated the
Speaker 1: orders and gone to church and all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1: The sheriff was there at their church with his deputies
Speaker 1: surrounding the church to protect them from the state police.
Speaker 1: And so that's why I tell people that story because again,
Speaker 1: even in a situation like Illinois, kind of a worst
Speaker 1: case state scenario, you can still have some good local
Speaker 1: officials and people. You can make a difference. At the
Speaker 1: federal level, the bipartisan agreement about all this stuff, and
Speaker 1: they've worked this thing up, but at the local level,
Speaker 1: you can make some things better if you get the
Speaker 1: right people there. It's very important.
Speaker 3: That's right. That's right. And you know, we did our
Speaker 3: very best, we meaning myself, my family, supporters, other people
Speaker 3: who really cared the current. The sheriff at the time
Speaker 3: was Sheriff fry Tag, and we did our best to
Speaker 3: inform him and educate him. And I mean that with
Speaker 3: all respect. I'm not belittling him by saying that he
Speaker 3: told me to my face when we were talking about
Speaker 3: the Constitution that he says, you know, I know the
Speaker 3: first and Second Amendment, but I really don't know the
Speaker 3: rest of the Constitution well at all. And we thought
Speaker 3: that he should probably understand the rest of the Constitution,
Speaker 3: and he should understand the First and Second Amendment. A
Speaker 3: little better. Somebody offered an all expense paid a trip
Speaker 3: to Sheriff Max's sheriff seminar. I believe those were going
Speaker 3: on in Texas at the time, three day seminar for
Speaker 3: these sheriffs, educating them from the constitution and how to
Speaker 3: protect the people that you're serving, et cetera.
Speaker 2: He denied that.
Speaker 3: He turned it down. We also tube different parties handed
Speaker 3: him as Sheriff Max's booklet or book on what every
Speaker 3: sheriff should know. And yet when push came to shove,
Speaker 3: my sheriff was not there for me. He was not
Speaker 3: there to protect me. So that was really unfortunate, very
Speaker 3: sad to see. So, yeah, put, you're right, I believe
Speaker 3: there are.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's right. It's important that we know, you know,
Speaker 1: when these elections are coming up, these local elections, you know,
Speaker 1: kind of get a scope as to where your sheriff
Speaker 1: is on that. I think that's interesting. His name was
Speaker 1: fright Tag, which, like Friday, is like a dragnet, you know,
Speaker 1: my partner. Here's my partner, Friday, you know, fright Tag.
Speaker 1: But there's another good resource out there as well as
Speaker 1: Sheriff Mac and a constitutional sheriffs and peace officers Association.
Speaker 1: Of course, you can support that with being a part
Speaker 1: of the POSSE. You don't have to be somebody who
Speaker 1: works in law enforcement. You can support that effort as
Speaker 1: a POSSE member. Also, Matrohela has a great book that
Speaker 1: has been very effective, short book but packed very easy read,
Speaker 1: a lot of information. It's called The Doctrine of the
Speaker 1: Lesser Magistrate, and it takes it from a historical perspective,
Speaker 1: and that's also something that has been known to open
Speaker 1: the eyes of people who are in law enforcement. So
Speaker 1: a couple of good resources there. Well, it sounds like
Speaker 1: you really know your stuff, and thank you so much
Speaker 1: for taking a stand on that. If people would have
Speaker 1: stood up, it would not have happened. And when people
Speaker 1: finally just started quietly walking away and not complying, that's
Speaker 1: when it ended. And it hasn't officially ended because we
Speaker 1: haven't taken away any of these usurped powers, and we
Speaker 1: haven't seen anybody pay any price for any of this.
Speaker 1: None of the people from the sheriffs up to Fauci
Speaker 1: or either Trump or Biden, nobody has paid penalty for
Speaker 1: any of this stuff. And that's why it's going to
Speaker 1: happen again. And hopefully this next time when it happens again,
Speaker 1: people aren't going to quietly and sheepishly.
Speaker 7: Go along with it.
Speaker 1: They will resist it, and they'll resist it in sufficient
Speaker 1: numbers to stop it. But thank you for standing alone
Speaker 1: essentially against this stuff. It's it's a horrific thing your prison,
Speaker 1: as you point out, when you were in prison, tell
Speaker 1: people what you missed when you were in prison those Ah, yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, definitely. I missed Christmas with my family, the birth
Speaker 3: of one of my granddaughters. I was supposed to be
Speaker 3: there in attendance. I missed that. I missed my wedding anniversary,
Speaker 3: as well as a host of other events of life happenings.
Speaker 3: But yeah, it was a tough time, I'll tell you what.
Speaker 3: So David, the Lord, the Lord saw me through.
Speaker 1: Good good. Do they make you wear a mask in
Speaker 1: prison things like that?
Speaker 3: Yes they did, Yes they did. Oh man, I decided
Speaker 3: not to fight that. I'd never worn, you know, a
Speaker 3: mask outside of prison other than court because they required
Speaker 3: actually a face shield is what they let me get
Speaker 3: a with in prison, or excuse me, in court. So yeah,
Speaker 3: it was the whole thing so ridiculous.
Speaker 1: It is it just all that Simon says nonsense. That
Speaker 1: a joke, and it was a joke to start with.
Speaker 1: Oh I'm so sorry that happened to you. But now
Speaker 1: you're in Iowa and have you started I think you've
Speaker 1: started another business? Is that correct?
Speaker 17: Well?
Speaker 3: No, actually we are retired.
Speaker 1: Oh okay, all right, you're retired.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well we're retired at for at least for the
Speaker 3: time being.
Speaker 1: Well, thank you so much for what you did. And again,
Speaker 1: if we'd had more people like you, this charade would
Speaker 1: have not gone on, it would have ended right away. People.
Speaker 1: If you don't stand up, they're going to walk all
Speaker 1: over you. It's just that simple. They walked all over
Speaker 1: us through this period of time. And now we're cheering
Speaker 1: those people, and now were supposed to believe that if
Speaker 1: we don't get the idiot A or idiot B, America
Speaker 1: is over. I'm sorry, America ended in twenty twenty. You
Speaker 1: just haven't noticed it. We're sharing for these people time.
Speaker 3: It's time that everybody catches up, right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. Thank you so much for what your dad,
Speaker 1: and thank you for coming on. It's great talking to you.
Speaker 3: Good luck to Thank you David. It was a real honor.
Speaker 3: Thank you so much. God bless hearing of biased and false.
Speaker 1: Neooze all too common.
Speaker 15: First, unfortunately.
Speaker 11: The exactly and this is extremely dangerous to our democracy.
Speaker 10: This is extremely dangerous to our democracy.
Speaker 8: This is extremely dangerous to our democracy.
Speaker 12: This is extremely dangerous to our democracy.
Speaker 13: This is extremely dangerous to our democracy.
Speaker 9: This is extremely dangerous to our democracy.
Speaker 14: This is extremely dangerous to our democracy.
Speaker 15: This is extremely dangerous to our democracy.
Speaker 16: This is extremely dangerous to our democracy.
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