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<v Speaker 1>Hey, Mark, how are you?

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<v Speaker 2>I'm not great a sore throat.

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<v Speaker 3>I think I'm coming down with cold.

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<v Speaker 1>No, you should try a Vogel sore throat spray. It's

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<v Speaker 1>a natural remedy with ecination and sage, I can treat

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<v Speaker 1>symptoms of coals and flus, including sore throats.

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<v Speaker 2>Perfect. I'd give that a try.

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<v Speaker 1>So we leave sort throats symptoms with a Vogel a

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<v Speaker 1>Quena four sore throat spray made from echinasia and sage

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<v Speaker 1>herbs and designed to reach irritated parts of the throat.

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<v Speaker 1>Available from health stores and pharmacies nationwide. Always read the leaflet.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh hey, it's the extra power bank you always forget

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<v Speaker 2>to charge and bring with you. Alli Ward, and this

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<v Speaker 2>is an ologies that you did not know you were

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<v Speaker 2>waiting for. Oh, dolphins, No one's ready for this, No

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<v Speaker 2>one is. Y'all know we've had a few two parters recently,

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<v Speaker 2>and I just can't help it. We've done it again.

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<v Speaker 2>This conversation was just too perfect and too long not

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<v Speaker 2>to break up, because honestly, it's one that you need

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<v Speaker 2>to savor. I legit like this ologist more than I'm

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<v Speaker 2>ever gonna like my and I'm so thrilled to introduce

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<v Speaker 2>them to you. They got their PhD from the School

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<v Speaker 2>of Psychology at Trinity College Dublin in Dublin, Ireland. They're

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<v Speaker 2>currently an adjunct professor at Saint Francis Xavier University and

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<v Speaker 2>a senior research associate with a dolphin communication project. Also

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<v Speaker 2>co editor at one point of the journal Aquatic Mammals,

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<v Speaker 2>so they know their stuff. They also wrote the book

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<v Speaker 2>on dolphin cognition called Are Dolphins Really Smart? As well

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<v Speaker 2>as the book twenty two Fantastical Facts About Dolphins, and

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<v Speaker 2>they just came out with another book on animal cognition

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<v Speaker 2>titled If Nietzschee Were in Our Wall? What Animal Intelligence

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<v Speaker 2>Reveals About Human Stupidity? And this ologist sat down in

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<v Speaker 2>Nova Scotia for a spirited and no hyperbole, a thrilling

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<v Speaker 2>discussion on everything from dolphins on acid to why Hustler

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<v Speaker 2>broke dolphins' biggest scientific study news. But before we do

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<v Speaker 2>a quick thanks to all the patrons at patroon dot

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<v Speaker 2>com for keeping the show going and submitting great questions.

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<v Speaker 2>You too, can join for as little as a dollar

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<v Speaker 2>a month. Thank you also to everyone for rating and

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<v Speaker 2>subscribing and reviewing, which keeps us up in the charts.

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<v Speaker 2>This week we were number one in science, which really

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<v Speaker 2>means the world to me, and I read all the

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<v Speaker 2>reviews and I prove it with a piping hot one

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<v Speaker 2>this week is from Aidie Tron, who wrote, Eli is

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<v Speaker 2>basically your college roommate. She throws great parties with interesting people,

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<v Speaker 2>and you definitely wouldn't have passed your bioclasses without her tutelage.

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<v Speaker 2>She definitely eats all your snacks, though Adie Tron nailed it. Also,

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<v Speaker 2>if you hear this before April twentieth, Ologies is up

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<v Speaker 2>for a few Webby Awards, including for Best Hosts, and

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<v Speaker 2>my competition is like some loser named John Stuart, and

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<v Speaker 2>the link to vote is in the show notes. But

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<v Speaker 2>I'm keeping my expectations low. Okay, Dolphins. First off, the

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<v Speaker 2>term delphinology comes from the Greek meaning fish with a womb,

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<v Speaker 2>so process that also in French dauphine means prince and

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<v Speaker 2>I spent way too long pouring through smold papers about

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<v Speaker 2>European noblemen. But essentially the French call their princess dolphins

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<v Speaker 2>because of some count of Vienna who called his son

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<v Speaker 2>that as a nickname in the year eleven ten, despite

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<v Speaker 2>Vienna being five hundred kilometers away from the Mediterranean. But yes,

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<v Speaker 2>there are dolphins in the Mediterranean anyway, it's time. Just

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<v Speaker 2>a quick heads up up top. There is a brief

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<v Speaker 2>mention of suicide in this episode, just let you know.

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<v Speaker 2>Let's get into this episode. Let's slide our slippery little

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<v Speaker 2>butts into these fascinating waters. For dolphin brain size, language, squeaks, calls,

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<v Speaker 2>why they follow boats, pink dolphins, the difference between a

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<v Speaker 2>whale and a porpoise and a dolphin, Dolphins in the deep,

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<v Speaker 2>dolphins in captivity, the word captivity, the godfather of dolphin mystique,

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<v Speaker 2>why NASA invested in dolphin research, and love physical love

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<v Speaker 2>between a dolphin and its keeper. So much more with researcher, author,

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<v Speaker 2>and delphinologist, doctor Justin.

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<v Speaker 3>Greg My name is Justin Greg. He him.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, first, let's address theology, setology. What would the ology

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<v Speaker 2>be for a dolphin.

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<v Speaker 3>I don't know if there's a word specific to dolphins,

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<v Speaker 3>delphinologist or that. Maybe a satologist is a thing, But

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<v Speaker 3>that's also like whales.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's all kinds of stuff, right.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, whales and dolphins and porpoises. Okay, so I don't

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<v Speaker 3>know as much about like baileing whales or even toothed whales.

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<v Speaker 3>Like I'm just sort of the dolphiny guy.

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<v Speaker 2>When you say that you're the dolphin guy, I mean

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<v Speaker 2>so exciting. How many dolphin people are there who are

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<v Speaker 2>in the community of dolphin researchers, because I feel like

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<v Speaker 2>there's probably a lot of people that are like I

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<v Speaker 2>need to know what's going on with dolphins as a job.

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<v Speaker 3>There are a lot and they come from completely different fields.

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<v Speaker 3>There are a lot of psychologists, zoologists, there's biologists, anatomy people.

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<v Speaker 3>Like they're coming at it from so many different angles,

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<v Speaker 3>so like it's even hard to say how many there are.

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<v Speaker 3>Like if you go to a conference on marine mammalogy,

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<v Speaker 3>they'll be like hundreds and hundreds of dolphin people, but

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<v Speaker 3>they're not even in the same domain. They're like this

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<v Speaker 3>one guy knows everything about like hydrodynamics, and then I'm there,

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<v Speaker 3>I'm like, I do dolphin squeaks or whatever, and like

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<v Speaker 3>we're not on the same planet, So like I do

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<v Speaker 3>need to know basic like dolphin anatomy stuff.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, Why do you think dolphins are so interesting to humans?

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<v Speaker 2>Is it because they have giant huge brains.

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<v Speaker 3>That is the greatest question. I mean, people will look

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<v Speaker 3>at like the history, they'll be like, Okay, the Greeks

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<v Speaker 3>had a thing with dolphins, they thought of them as

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<v Speaker 3>friendly and in Western Europe, Yeah, there's kind of this

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<v Speaker 3>weird mythos around dolphins being important to our cultures. But

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<v Speaker 3>the reason that you and I know a lot about

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<v Speaker 3>dolphins and feel like they're a big deal is really

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<v Speaker 3>because of what happened in the nineteen sixties with the

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<v Speaker 3>crazy pants experiments with dolphins that to all of like

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<v Speaker 3>everything we're going to talk about that's flimplam I swear

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<v Speaker 3>came out of like the early nineteen sixties. It's still

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<v Speaker 3>floating around after like seventy years. Y gvy.

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<v Speaker 2>What happened in the nineteen sixties. Was there some sort

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<v Speaker 2>of post atomic space race? LSD, Now we have to

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<v Speaker 2>figure out everything about dolphins. Everyone's horny. What was going on?

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<v Speaker 3>It was like specifically one person, which is John Cunningham, Lily,

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<v Speaker 3>John c Lily, and he like his story explains everything,

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<v Speaker 3>and he is like, I do not want to disparage

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<v Speaker 3>him because he is the reason that most of us

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<v Speaker 3>dolphin nerds got into it. Because a lot of his

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<v Speaker 3>ideas became things that we then wanted to learn about

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<v Speaker 3>and address. But also like he went totally off the

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<v Speaker 3>rails with his speculation, which is why there's so much

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<v Speaker 3>crazy stuff happening.

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<v Speaker 2>How did you find out about that research? Let's get

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<v Speaker 2>into how you got into it, and then you're going

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<v Speaker 2>to take me back, and I'm going to hear about

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<v Speaker 2>this Lily Pants person because I'm fascinated.

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<v Speaker 3>It's an amazing story. I love telling it. But yes,

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<v Speaker 3>so me. Okay, So I wanted to do undergrad stuff,

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<v Speaker 3>and I didn't know what I wanted to do. I'm

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<v Speaker 3>one of those people who entered It was like, I'll

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<v Speaker 3>take the first two years to figure myself out. And

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<v Speaker 3>there's two things I knew. One I sucked at science.

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<v Speaker 3>Two I sucked at math. So I was like, Okay,

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<v Speaker 3>what I'm going to study is linguistics because I really

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<v Speaker 3>love languages and I love learning languages. Learning how other

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<v Speaker 3>people learn languages. Languages became my thing. So I did

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<v Speaker 3>an undergrad degree in that didn't study anything with dolphins whatsoever,

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<v Speaker 3>and that was great. An undergrad degree in a humanities field.

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<v Speaker 3>So that went nowhere. So then I immediately started working

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<v Speaker 3>like I retrained to be a sound engineer. I did

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<v Speaker 3>a course because I thought I was going to be

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<v Speaker 3>like a studio engineer that records like bands, and I

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<v Speaker 3>was in Ireland recording like terrible boy bands, and I'm like,

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<v Speaker 3>this is the worst career. So I immediately stopped that.

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<v Speaker 3>Then I decided to be a voiceover artist for like

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<v Speaker 3>cartoons in film, and I did that for a bit,

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<v Speaker 3>and then my wife was starting her PhD. And so

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<v Speaker 3>then I had to work all these jobs to support her.

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<v Speaker 3>And they were like temp jobs, like the worst jobs

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<v Speaker 3>you could imagine.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh, like what like how bad?

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<v Speaker 3>Like I had a zipper counting job, where like there's

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<v Speaker 3>a warehouse filled with like clothing items like you would

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<v Speaker 3>send out, like you know, like a haberdashery, and I

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<v Speaker 3>just had to do an inventory on all the zippers

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<v Speaker 3>and there's like just thousands of bins of zippers and

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<v Speaker 3>I'd be like, there's seventy three red three centimeter long

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<v Speaker 3>zippers and this bin. And that's what I did for

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<v Speaker 3>a living.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh my god. I worked in college at a fishlore

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<v Speaker 2>place and I had to count fish lures.

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<v Speaker 3>It's awful.

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<v Speaker 2>It's a living. It was April first, and I called

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<v Speaker 2>my mom to tell her that I was dropping out

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<v Speaker 2>of school because I had been offered a promotion to

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<v Speaker 2>the fishlore place. And she was like, please don't. You're

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<v Speaker 2>a semester away from graduating, and I was like, oh,

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<v Speaker 2>it's four dollars more an hour. So I've been there.

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<v Speaker 2>I've been there. This next part seems like a scene

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<v Speaker 2>from a stoner movie, and by that, I mean it's

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<v Speaker 2>the best.

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<v Speaker 3>And one of the jobs I had right at the

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<v Speaker 3>end was I was working in a bank, like doing

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<v Speaker 3>like car insurance customer service, and I had a computer

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<v Speaker 3>with a screen on it with a dolphin screensaver, like

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<v Speaker 3>one of those cheesy dolphin screen savers, and I was

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<v Speaker 3>staring at it all day and I'm like, why, my

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<v Speaker 3>life's terrible. This is ridiculous. What do I want to

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<v Speaker 3>do with my life? I want to be studying that

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<v Speaker 3>animal that I loved as a kid. And so I'm like,

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<v Speaker 3>how do I make that happen? Because I have a

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<v Speaker 3>degree in linguistics that's a human thing, and I'm like,

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<v Speaker 3>you know what, I can study dolphin communication. I can

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<v Speaker 3>study the evolution of language by looking at another species

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<v Speaker 3>that's famous for being good at communicating. And so I

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<v Speaker 3>went to the public library and I just read a

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<v Speaker 3>ton of books on like biology and things I didn't

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<v Speaker 3>know about, and got good enough to apply for like

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<v Speaker 3>a graduate program and got in and then boom, there

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<v Speaker 3>you go. What's what happened to me?

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<v Speaker 2>And how much did you have to catch up on

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<v Speaker 2>the evolution of satology and things like that? How many

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<v Speaker 2>basics did you need to know biologically to understand what

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<v Speaker 2>they were doing with their brains and communication?

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<v Speaker 3>A lot? I ended up like doing a lot of reading,

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<v Speaker 3>and then while I was doing my master's into the PhD,

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<v Speaker 3>just taking a ton of classes in like zoology, biology, anatomy,

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<v Speaker 3>and like psychology, just to have a basic grasp of

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<v Speaker 3>what brains do. Because again I studied nothing of the

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<v Speaker 3>sort I had like a folk and square dancing class

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<v Speaker 3>as an undergrad. I didn't know what I was doing,

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<v Speaker 3>but I was. I was motivated and passionate because I'm like,

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<v Speaker 3>I'm not going to work at this terrible job. I'm

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<v Speaker 3>not counting zippers, I'm not counting lures. I'm studying dolphins.

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<v Speaker 3>And so that that did it.

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<v Speaker 2>Wow, Okay, the big question do dolphins talk? How? What

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<v Speaker 2>is talking? And are they doing it.

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<v Speaker 3>The problem is, as always, what does talk mean? What

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<v Speaker 3>does language mean? So there's like in late like if

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<v Speaker 3>we're just chatting and we talk about, oh, dolphin language,

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<v Speaker 3>what's that like? You're sort of using it to mean

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<v Speaker 3>like their communication system, and that's okay. But if you

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<v Speaker 3>if I put on my science guy hat and I'm like, no,

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<v Speaker 3>that is not languagelanguage that has a very specific definition

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<v Speaker 3>of what it's doing and how it functions structurally, and

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<v Speaker 3>that is not something that even the best symbol using

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<v Speaker 3>species like animals like the great apes, dolphins that we

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<v Speaker 3>can train to use symbols, they aren't doing like full

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<v Speaker 3>fledged language or even in their own communication systems. They're

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<v Speaker 3>not talking about, as it were, the same kinds of

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<v Speaker 3>things that we are. And I think the best way

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<v Speaker 3>to understand why it's not is that if you look

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<v Speaker 3>at animal communication systems, what is it that they do

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<v Speaker 3>communicate about. It's like a handful of things they say

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<v Speaker 3>like there's danger, or come mate with me, or there's food,

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<v Speaker 3>and that's kind of it. Whereas you and I can

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<v Speaker 3>talk about like how terrible it is to count phishing

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<v Speaker 3>lures like anything that we can conceive of, we can

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<v Speaker 3>discuss that it's open ended in terms of like the

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<v Speaker 3>concepts we can discuss, and animals just don't. Even though

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<v Speaker 3>they have structurally complex systems, they don't talk about lots

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<v Speaker 3>of things.

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<v Speaker 2>Huh. So there's a difference between communication and language. Communication

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<v Speaker 2>just relates to any information that can be a grunt

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<v Speaker 2>or a look or a scream, And we have a

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<v Speaker 2>whole episode just on screaming a link in the show notes.

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<v Speaker 2>But language, on the other hand, or tongue, can be verbal,

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<v Speaker 2>it can be signed, it can be written, but it

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<v Speaker 2>has to have a system of vocabulary and of grammar.

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<v Speaker 2>And I will also link the phonology episodes on human linguistics.

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<v Speaker 2>But getting back to the subject at hand, or a

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<v Speaker 2>flipper delphinology. Okay, when you are learning about dolphin communication

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<v Speaker 2>and dolphins and you're taking zoology and biology and all

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<v Speaker 2>of these things, how much do they talk about this

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<v Speaker 2>Lily guy?

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<v Speaker 3>Not too terribly much, Okay, because I think that he's

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<v Speaker 3>sort of a taboo character in that. So like, if

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<v Speaker 3>you're a serious dolphin scientist person, you will know about

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<v Speaker 3>him and his influence on the field, but you're not

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<v Speaker 3>referencing like his writing. Okay, so we didn't talk about

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<v Speaker 3>him much. You sort of have to learn about him

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<v Speaker 3>through the lore of people who don't study dolphins coming

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<v Speaker 3>and asking you, like, hey, is it true that dolphins

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<v Speaker 3>are psychic or whatever? And you're like what then do

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<v Speaker 3>you have to go and be like where are you

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<v Speaker 3>getting this from? And the answer is always John Laley.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh my god, can you give me a rundown on

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<v Speaker 2>who he was and why he made dolphins so dolphiny

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<v Speaker 2>in our culture?

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<v Speaker 3>Yes, so story time. He was a medical doctor, like

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<v Speaker 3>a he studied neuro stuff, and there was like one

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<v Speaker 3>day his friend invited him down to the beach where

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<v Speaker 3>there was like a dolphin or a pilot wheel I

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<v Speaker 3>think that had died, and he's like, you got to

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<v Speaker 3>check out this animal's brain, and like cracked open the skull,

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<v Speaker 3>looked at the brain and they were like, wow, it's big.

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<v Speaker 3>And that was, strangely, the first time anyone had really

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<v Speaker 3>figured this out, because before this is in the late forties,

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<v Speaker 3>and before then, dolphins were like weird fish. Right, they're

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<v Speaker 3>fish that like breathe through a hole in the top

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<v Speaker 3>and then they give live birth. Okay, so they're a mamma.

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<v Speaker 3>We knew that, but like there were no ideas about

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<v Speaker 3>them being smart. This didn't exist until he looked at

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<v Speaker 3>the brain and was like it's big. And then he's like, okay,

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<v Speaker 3>so this like he used to do vivisections, so he'd

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<v Speaker 3>put electrodes into the brains of like monkeys and great

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<v Speaker 3>apes and stimulate the brain and see what the brain

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<v Speaker 3>was doing. This was you know, early days. And he's like,

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<v Speaker 3>I'm gonna do that to dolphins.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, okay, okay.

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<v Speaker 3>And so he went to a lab in Florida, got

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<v Speaker 3>access to a bunch of dolphins and anesthetized them and

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<v Speaker 3>tried to like stimulate their brain. But the problem is

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<v Speaker 3>when you anesthetize a dolphin, it dies because they're conscious breathers.

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<v Speaker 3>If they go to sleep, they stop breathing. So he

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<v Speaker 3>killed a ton of dolphins, and then he finally figured

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<v Speaker 3>out how to not kill them and stimulate their brains.

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<v Speaker 3>And what he noticed was that they made a lot

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<v Speaker 3>of noise. They made a lot of clicky sounds, and

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<v Speaker 3>sometimes it sounded like they were trying to imitate his speech.

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<v Speaker 3>And so that was the eureka moment. He's like, they're

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<v Speaker 3>trying to speak English. Wow, And so he wrote like

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<v Speaker 3>a book about those early experiments man and dolphin. And

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<v Speaker 3>he was sure because of the size of their brain

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<v Speaker 3>and the fact that they could imitate his speech or

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<v Speaker 3>were trying to. The dolphins had a language, dolphins were

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<v Speaker 3>as smart or smarter than humans because their brains are

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<v Speaker 3>larger than ours. And he just had all these big,

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<v Speaker 3>grandiose ideas about, you know, someday in the future, like

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<v Speaker 3>we'll have the dolphins at the United Nations table and

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<v Speaker 3>they'll be there with us talking about so. And then

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<v Speaker 3>the money started coming in then, like NASA was interested,

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<v Speaker 3>right because they're like they're like government was like, oh,

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<v Speaker 3>they might be that smart. Here's tons of money. Go

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<v Speaker 3>learn to talk to the dolphins. Oh, and so he

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<v Speaker 3>started it. Oh, I'm just gonna go this is a

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<v Speaker 3>monologue and a half. He started a lab in Saint

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<v Speaker 3>Thomas where he was studying dolphins to communicate with them. Famously,

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<v Speaker 3>there is a woman named Margaret Howe who was part

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<v Speaker 3>of his research group, and she lived in a house,

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<v Speaker 3>a two story house blooded with water that a single

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<v Speaker 3>dolphin lived in named Peter. She lived in the house

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<v Speaker 3>with Peter to teach him English.

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<v Speaker 2>Wait, this is a lot I know no no, no, no,

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<v Speaker 2>it's not even enough, is what it is. This gets

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<v Speaker 2>so much weirder. Hang tight. Okay. One question. Do you

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<v Speaker 2>think that the dolphin at any point was trying to

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<v Speaker 2>speak human to be like can you please not no?

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<v Speaker 3>Okay, just checking, Yeah, I would say not the case. No. However,

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<v Speaker 3>when when the dolphin with Margaret got in the pool,

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<v Speaker 3>she was actively teaching it to imitate her, and it

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<v Speaker 3>was trying to imitate her, because they're very good mimics vocally,

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<v Speaker 3>but it sounded like you can listen to the recordings,

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<v Speaker 3>it sounds ridiculous, like they're not structurally capable of making

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<v Speaker 3>human like sound.

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<v Speaker 2>Hello.

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<v Speaker 3>Hello. So she spent like six months yelling numbers and

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<v Speaker 3>words at this doll and trying to get it to

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<v Speaker 3>imitate her speech, and it didn't work.

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<v Speaker 2>Was she in scuba gear? How is she going up

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<v Speaker 2>and down these up and down this two story watertight house.

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<v Speaker 3>I guess there was like a weird elevator thing that

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<v Speaker 3>would bring her up and down, and like her desk

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00:17:12.680 --> 00:17:14.480
<v Speaker 3>was like elevated from the ceiling and she would just

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<v Speaker 3>sort of sit there and like put her feet in

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<v Speaker 3>the water, and the dolphin would come up to her.

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<v Speaker 2>So This dolphin areum was situated on the Caribbean island

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<v Speaker 2>of Saint Thomas, and Margaret love It side note had

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<v Speaker 2>heard about this secret lab while she was living on

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00:17:27.920 --> 00:17:30.759
<v Speaker 2>the island. She drove to the lab where she encountered

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<v Speaker 2>the lead scientist on the project outside smoking a sig

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<v Speaker 2>and she was like, Hey, I'm no scientist, but can

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<v Speaker 2>I science with your dolphins? And they were like, such, Moxie,

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<v Speaker 2>get in the tank. And so she turned out to

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<v Speaker 2>be a really gifted and astute animal observer. So when

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<v Speaker 2>she pointed out that going home and sleeping in a

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<v Speaker 2>dry bed with your partner meant losing sixteen hours of

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00:17:55.000 --> 00:17:59.200
<v Speaker 2>potential observation and data every day, they were like, good point.

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<v Speaker 2>They waterproof the labs upper floors too. She moved in

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<v Speaker 2>for a total of six months, and the photos I

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<v Speaker 2>saw looked kind of like an indoor swimming pool, but

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<v Speaker 2>just wall to wall and usually with Margaret Lovett with

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<v Speaker 2>a golden tan and a dark pixie cut and full

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<v Speaker 2>lips dangling her feet in the water or bent over

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<v Speaker 2>a bucket of fish eyes trained on a dolphin. Wow.

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<v Speaker 3>Okay, slept there.

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<v Speaker 2>She slept in the house with Peter the dolphin. Now,

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<v Speaker 2>when I hear the words Peter the Dolphin, something in

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<v Speaker 2>my brain says, Ali, you've read about this and it's horny.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, am I wrong? You are not wrong? You are

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<v Speaker 3>you are getting into the part of the story where

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<v Speaker 3>it goes off the rails there. Yeah, so famously, I mean,

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<v Speaker 3>because this was this appeared in like a hustle. The

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<v Speaker 3>first people to break this story was Hustler in like

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<v Speaker 3>the seventies. No, yeah, oh my god, and then it

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<v Speaker 3>became a famous story. But so, Peter the dolphin was

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<v Speaker 3>a young dolphin, a young male dolphin taken from his

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<v Speaker 3>social group. Normally he'd be hanging around with a bunch

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<v Speaker 3>of other dolphins, right, doing normal dolphins socio sexual stuff.

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<v Speaker 3>So he and I'm sure we're going to talk a

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<v Speaker 3>lot about this in the future. He would whip that

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<v Speaker 3>penis out because dolphins can do that all the time,

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<v Speaker 3>and sort of be rubbing it on her. And so

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<v Speaker 3>one of the things she would do to calm him

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<v Speaker 3>down and get him ready for more experiments would be

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<v Speaker 3>to bring him to climax. Oh no, so that he

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<v Speaker 3>would chill out, oh dad, Yeah. And so as she's

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<v Speaker 3>describing it, it's not it's not weird. Like if you

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<v Speaker 3>listen to her accounts, she's like, look, it just had

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<v Speaker 3>to happen. It wasn't as weird as people make it

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<v Speaker 3>out to be. But once people caught wind to the

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<v Speaker 3>fact that there was someone masturbating a dolphin for science,

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<v Speaker 3>like the money, the money stopped coming in, right, Oh no,

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<v Speaker 3>I'm sorry.

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<v Speaker 2>Peter's like, this experiment is working for me.

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<v Speaker 3>It was okay, yeah, no, he was probably miserable.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, h absolutely, yeah. I don't want to live in

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<v Speaker 2>a two story house with anyone hanging from a desk.

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<v Speaker 2>Take me back to my friends where I can be

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<v Speaker 2>with them without cameras and clipboards. So how long did

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<v Speaker 2>these experiments with Peter go on?

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<v Speaker 3>Only about a few months, I can't remember, five or

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<v Speaker 3>six months maybe, and then the sort of money dried up,

394
00:20:14.759 --> 00:20:18.279
<v Speaker 3>really did, like they stopped funding it and they and

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<v Speaker 3>he ended up dying.

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<v Speaker 2>No, what happened?

397
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<v Speaker 3>How?

398
00:20:21.039 --> 00:20:21.279
<v Speaker 2>Why?

399
00:20:21.519 --> 00:20:24.400
<v Speaker 3>Well, that's that's another one of these stories, which was

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<v Speaker 3>famously John Lilly called up Margaret and said that Peter

401
00:20:28.240 --> 00:20:32.880
<v Speaker 3>has committed suicide. He's so sad that he stopped breathing

402
00:20:32.880 --> 00:20:36.960
<v Speaker 3>and went underwater and just asphyxiated. He had told her,

403
00:20:37.279 --> 00:20:40.200
<v Speaker 3>and so this concept of dolphins can commit suicide became

404
00:20:40.240 --> 00:20:44.119
<v Speaker 3>another one of these things that people still ask today

405
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<v Speaker 3>in twenty twenty three, is that a thing? And it

406
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<v Speaker 3>really was just based on that moment going forward.

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<v Speaker 2>Do you think that that happens ever in the wild?

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<v Speaker 3>I don't, because for suicide you have to have this

409
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<v Speaker 3>sort of concept of your own mortality and the nature

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<v Speaker 3>of death. And I think you did something on panatology

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00:21:02.759 --> 00:21:05.799
<v Speaker 3>and whether or not animals do understand death, and they

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00:21:05.799 --> 00:21:09.240
<v Speaker 3>do to some extent, but certainly probably not in a

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<v Speaker 3>sophisticated enough way to say that they would know what

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00:21:11.799 --> 00:21:15.759
<v Speaker 3>suicide was. So you certainly have animals that are sad

415
00:21:16.160 --> 00:21:19.319
<v Speaker 3>and stop eating and die. That's a thing that happens

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00:21:19.319 --> 00:21:21.440
<v Speaker 3>to a lot of animals, So that's not out of

417
00:21:21.440 --> 00:21:25.200
<v Speaker 3>the question. But whether or not it was intentional, I

418
00:21:25.240 --> 00:21:25.759
<v Speaker 3>don't think so.

419
00:21:26.079 --> 00:21:28.519
<v Speaker 2>Peter. The dolphin, as well as a few others at

420
00:21:28.519 --> 00:21:32.119
<v Speaker 2>the dolphin area, had been captured in the wild previously

421
00:21:32.359 --> 00:21:35.920
<v Speaker 2>and used in the TV show Flipper, and another actress

422
00:21:35.960 --> 00:21:39.839
<v Speaker 2>and dolphin from Flipper Dolphin named Kathy apparently ended her

423
00:21:39.920 --> 00:21:44.359
<v Speaker 2>own life after the show wrapped just one day, failing

424
00:21:44.400 --> 00:21:46.960
<v Speaker 2>to breathe in the arms of her trainer and another

425
00:21:47.079 --> 00:21:51.240
<v Speaker 2>captive orca died of self inflicted blunt force trauma butting

426
00:21:51.240 --> 00:21:55.359
<v Speaker 2>into a wall head first, repeatedly. But animal behaviorists are

427
00:21:55.440 --> 00:22:00.319
<v Speaker 2>still split on cetacean's intentions in self harm. And one

428
00:22:00.759 --> 00:22:04.559
<v Speaker 2>not so fun fact, but suicideology is a legit field

429
00:22:04.680 --> 00:22:08.000
<v Speaker 2>in mental health care and in research, and I have

430
00:22:08.039 --> 00:22:11.599
<v Speaker 2>a future episode on that planned. But overall those ologists

431
00:22:11.640 --> 00:22:14.599
<v Speaker 2>have moved towards saying died by suicide rather than commit,

432
00:22:14.759 --> 00:22:17.480
<v Speaker 2>since the language of commit implies an act of wrongdoing

433
00:22:17.640 --> 00:22:20.200
<v Speaker 2>or something to be judged. But yes, stay tuned for

434
00:22:20.240 --> 00:22:24.119
<v Speaker 2>that episode. What about the notion of dolphins as people?

435
00:22:24.519 --> 00:22:27.279
<v Speaker 2>Did these experiments pave the way for that.

436
00:22:27.799 --> 00:22:30.000
<v Speaker 3>Yes, because the claims were quite strong, and that their

437
00:22:30.039 --> 00:22:33.000
<v Speaker 3>intelligence levels are the same or more sophisticated than us,

438
00:22:33.480 --> 00:22:35.319
<v Speaker 3>And that bleeds straight into an argument of weal. If

439
00:22:35.319 --> 00:22:38.960
<v Speaker 3>they're super super smart, then they should be allotted the

440
00:22:39.000 --> 00:22:44.039
<v Speaker 3>same sort of moral consideration as other humans. And so yet,

441
00:22:44.160 --> 00:22:46.960
<v Speaker 3>so they entered into the lore as a creature that

442
00:22:47.039 --> 00:22:50.000
<v Speaker 3>deserves that, you know, rights along those lines. But but

443
00:22:50.000 --> 00:22:51.960
<v Speaker 3>but now we get into the modern day and we

444
00:22:52.000 --> 00:22:55.279
<v Speaker 3>talk about personhood in the legal sense, which a lot

445
00:22:55.279 --> 00:22:58.319
<v Speaker 3>of folks are doing when it comes to cognition, and

446
00:22:58.359 --> 00:23:00.680
<v Speaker 3>that's a different that's a different kind of legal question

447
00:23:00.759 --> 00:23:03.160
<v Speaker 3>where you could say, like an elephant or a chimpanzee

448
00:23:03.200 --> 00:23:07.039
<v Speaker 3>or a dolphin has enough sophisticated cognitive function to be

449
00:23:07.400 --> 00:23:11.640
<v Speaker 3>considered not a thing but a person, just like McDonald's

450
00:23:11.680 --> 00:23:14.640
<v Speaker 3>is a person because corporations have personhood, so why not

451
00:23:14.720 --> 00:23:16.799
<v Speaker 3>a dolphin, which isn't so crazy.

452
00:23:17.359 --> 00:23:20.839
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And while corporations have enjoyed some of the legal

453
00:23:20.920 --> 00:23:24.559
<v Speaker 2>rights of people since the nineteen eighteen court case involving

454
00:23:24.759 --> 00:23:28.200
<v Speaker 2>Dartmouth and England, the courts are still on the fence

455
00:23:28.279 --> 00:23:32.039
<v Speaker 2>about captive animals. They're kind of arguing what exactly habeas

456
00:23:32.039 --> 00:23:35.720
<v Speaker 2>corpus or the protection against unlawful attention and the right

457
00:23:35.799 --> 00:23:39.759
<v Speaker 2>to bodily autonomy really means for different species, do you?

458
00:23:40.640 --> 00:23:44.559
<v Speaker 2>And I'm not sure exactly like what rights personhood allows,

459
00:23:45.200 --> 00:23:48.599
<v Speaker 2>because there are still scientific experiments happening with dolphins correct

460
00:23:48.799 --> 00:23:52.559
<v Speaker 2>without their consent, as well as abduction from the wild.

461
00:23:53.359 --> 00:23:56.960
<v Speaker 2>But where where does the line between respecting the intelligence

462
00:23:56.960 --> 00:23:59.519
<v Speaker 2>and the cognition of a dolphin versus wanting to know

463
00:23:59.599 --> 00:24:02.680
<v Speaker 2>more about that cognition for the benefit of humanity like,

464
00:24:02.759 --> 00:24:05.599
<v Speaker 2>where ethically do scientists draw that line?

465
00:24:05.720 --> 00:24:08.519
<v Speaker 3>That is a great question, and it's there is no

466
00:24:08.640 --> 00:24:11.200
<v Speaker 3>answer because the folks who are advocating are fighting for

467
00:24:11.759 --> 00:24:14.359
<v Speaker 3>a personhood to be applied, but that doesn't necessarily give

468
00:24:14.559 --> 00:24:17.319
<v Speaker 3>an animal in this case exactly the same rights as

469
00:24:17.359 --> 00:24:19.240
<v Speaker 3>a as a full fledged adult human, because like if

470
00:24:19.279 --> 00:24:22.319
<v Speaker 3>you think of children, like children are humans, they have

471
00:24:22.400 --> 00:24:25.160
<v Speaker 3>personhood as well, but like we're allowed to do things

472
00:24:25.160 --> 00:24:26.920
<v Speaker 3>to kids that you can't do an adult. Like I

473
00:24:26.960 --> 00:24:28.599
<v Speaker 3>could take my toddler and like put her in the

474
00:24:28.640 --> 00:24:31.200
<v Speaker 3>car and like strap her down with against her wills.

475
00:24:31.200 --> 00:24:32.599
<v Speaker 3>She's like, I don't want this. I'm like, you have

476
00:24:32.640 --> 00:24:35.200
<v Speaker 3>to put on a seatbelt. You know that's allowed, but

477
00:24:35.200 --> 00:24:37.039
<v Speaker 3>it wouldn't. I could not do that to you, Like

478
00:24:37.079 --> 00:24:38.559
<v Speaker 3>if you're young, at me not to put you in

479
00:24:38.559 --> 00:24:42.359
<v Speaker 3>the vaccine. That's not allowed. So even within our own species,

480
00:24:42.400 --> 00:24:45.000
<v Speaker 3>there's gradients about what is and what isn't allowed based

481
00:24:45.079 --> 00:24:48.000
<v Speaker 3>on the situation. So certainly that would apply to you, know,

482
00:24:48.039 --> 00:24:50.440
<v Speaker 3>you would have justifications for doing some things to animals

483
00:24:50.480 --> 00:24:52.279
<v Speaker 3>and not others if they had person had.

484
00:24:52.720 --> 00:24:56.119
<v Speaker 2>Well talking about their personhood and their brains and all

485
00:24:56.160 --> 00:24:59.960
<v Speaker 2>of this. How did dolphins, which from what I understand,

486
00:25:00.599 --> 00:25:05.160
<v Speaker 2>evolved out of the ocean onto the land, became deer

487
00:25:05.359 --> 00:25:07.720
<v Speaker 2>like creatures, and then we're like, fuck, this went back

488
00:25:07.759 --> 00:25:13.079
<v Speaker 2>to the ocean. How did their brains get so big

489
00:25:13.119 --> 00:25:14.279
<v Speaker 2>and squashy along the way?

490
00:25:14.559 --> 00:25:18.240
<v Speaker 3>That is the million dollar question. They have very large brains,

491
00:25:18.680 --> 00:25:20.799
<v Speaker 3>sophisticated brains, and that they have a lot of like

492
00:25:20.839 --> 00:25:23.880
<v Speaker 3>cerebral cortex that's all folded up just like humans, more

493
00:25:23.960 --> 00:25:27.559
<v Speaker 3>folds than humans even, And the question is, well, why

494
00:25:27.720 --> 00:25:29.640
<v Speaker 3>why do they need it? And there are a lot

495
00:25:29.680 --> 00:25:33.680
<v Speaker 3>of competing hypotheses and no answers. Some major hypotheses are

496
00:25:33.880 --> 00:25:37.799
<v Speaker 3>it's diet related, like they are omnivores or not omnivores,

497
00:25:37.799 --> 00:25:40.400
<v Speaker 3>but they are hunting and looking for food in the

498
00:25:40.400 --> 00:25:42.920
<v Speaker 3>same way like a crow might do, or like a human,

499
00:25:43.359 --> 00:25:48.240
<v Speaker 3>and so they need because of the ecological needs of

500
00:25:48.319 --> 00:25:51.720
<v Speaker 3>being a smart hunter, their brains got big. That's potentially

501
00:25:51.759 --> 00:25:56.200
<v Speaker 3>an answer, But the more interesting answer is that it's

502
00:25:56.240 --> 00:26:01.160
<v Speaker 3>for social navigation because dolphins live in exceedingly complicated social

503
00:26:01.359 --> 00:26:05.640
<v Speaker 3>groups and they need to navigate those social groups. Necessitates

504
00:26:05.759 --> 00:26:07.720
<v Speaker 3>a lot of brain power to keep track of, like

505
00:26:07.759 --> 00:26:10.000
<v Speaker 3>who your friends and enemies are, Like who do you hate?

506
00:26:10.039 --> 00:26:11.559
<v Speaker 3>Who helped you last year.

507
00:26:11.720 --> 00:26:13.319
<v Speaker 2>I'm not going to make a big deal at my party,

508
00:26:13.319 --> 00:26:15.440
<v Speaker 2>but she is so rich.

509
00:26:15.480 --> 00:26:18.119
<v Speaker 3>And so that is the leading hypothesis, which is probably

510
00:26:18.119 --> 00:26:20.160
<v Speaker 3>still wrong, but it's a really good one.

511
00:26:20.279 --> 00:26:20.640
<v Speaker 4>Mm hmm.

512
00:26:20.839 --> 00:26:23.519
<v Speaker 2>And I'm sure there's a spectrum of wellbeing for marine

513
00:26:23.559 --> 00:26:26.680
<v Speaker 2>mammals that are human kept on one end being well

514
00:26:26.720 --> 00:26:30.720
<v Speaker 2>cared for or research animals that are minimally disturbed in

515
00:26:30.839 --> 00:26:34.720
<v Speaker 2>larger natural habitats, and then on the other like whales

516
00:26:34.799 --> 00:26:38.039
<v Speaker 2>kept in oversized swimming pools and forced to perform for

517
00:26:38.160 --> 00:26:39.000
<v Speaker 2>screaming children.

518
00:26:39.480 --> 00:26:41.640
<v Speaker 3>Certainly, on the face of it, if you take a

519
00:26:41.759 --> 00:26:44.079
<v Speaker 3>very social mammal living in a large social group or

520
00:26:44.079 --> 00:26:46.319
<v Speaker 3>like Orca's in a family pod, and then you separate them,

521
00:26:46.480 --> 00:26:48.839
<v Speaker 3>you would assume that they aren't having a lot of

522
00:26:48.880 --> 00:26:52.240
<v Speaker 3>fun in that scenario. That's probably true, although it's very

523
00:26:52.240 --> 00:26:56.680
<v Speaker 3>species specific and probably very individual dolphin specific, and also

524
00:26:56.720 --> 00:26:59.279
<v Speaker 3>really hard to measure. Like if you think, like you know,

525
00:26:59.359 --> 00:27:01.599
<v Speaker 3>common bottle, those dolphins they live way out at the

526
00:27:01.680 --> 00:27:03.759
<v Speaker 3>pelagic species they live out in middle of nowhere. Like

527
00:27:03.759 --> 00:27:05.200
<v Speaker 3>if you take one of those and you put it

528
00:27:05.240 --> 00:27:08.640
<v Speaker 3>in captivity, it like dies instantly because it's like it

529
00:27:08.680 --> 00:27:12.359
<v Speaker 3>cannot handle whatever the captivity constraints are but a bottle.

530
00:27:12.440 --> 00:27:17.279
<v Speaker 3>Those dolphins pretty resilient species, gets along really well with humans,

531
00:27:17.640 --> 00:27:21.960
<v Speaker 3>can handle like new social groupings. Okay, they're probably not

532
00:27:22.119 --> 00:27:24.599
<v Speaker 3>as freaked out as other species would be.

533
00:27:24.920 --> 00:27:28.480
<v Speaker 2>Researchers do keep dolphins in captivity to study them, right,

534
00:27:28.559 --> 00:27:30.240
<v Speaker 2>do you have any idea how do they make sure

535
00:27:30.279 --> 00:27:32.519
<v Speaker 2>that the dolphins are okay, that they're studying them but

536
00:27:32.519 --> 00:27:33.880
<v Speaker 2>they're not in distress.

537
00:27:34.160 --> 00:27:36.720
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, people who study them, and these days it's a

538
00:27:36.720 --> 00:27:39.480
<v Speaker 3>lot better than it used to be, and some facilities

539
00:27:39.519 --> 00:27:41.599
<v Speaker 3>are way better at this than others. They will have

540
00:27:41.759 --> 00:27:44.559
<v Speaker 3>veterinarians and research teams whose whole job it is to

541
00:27:45.160 --> 00:27:48.359
<v Speaker 3>monitor their levels of you know, hormones, stress hormones and things,

542
00:27:48.400 --> 00:27:49.960
<v Speaker 3>just to make sure they're okay. And then you have

543
00:27:49.960 --> 00:27:52.160
<v Speaker 3>behavior experts who are there with the dolphins all the

544
00:27:52.200 --> 00:27:56.599
<v Speaker 3>time just to monitor their behavior. But of course that's

545
00:27:56.640 --> 00:27:59.440
<v Speaker 3>always the controversy like oh okay, but you don't really

546
00:27:59.480 --> 00:28:02.640
<v Speaker 3>know what the dolphins experiencing consciously, like how does it

547
00:28:02.720 --> 00:28:05.079
<v Speaker 3>actually feel? So it's hard to know for sure, so

548
00:28:05.079 --> 00:28:06.920
<v Speaker 3>you're making a best guess. Like if a dolphin is

549
00:28:06.960 --> 00:28:10.000
<v Speaker 3>like listless and not eating, probably sad. If they're running

550
00:28:10.039 --> 00:28:13.759
<v Speaker 3>around and swimming around and playing and happy looking making

551
00:28:13.799 --> 00:28:16.599
<v Speaker 3>a lot of sounds they're probably okay, but like who

552
00:28:16.599 --> 00:28:19.240
<v Speaker 3>knows for sure? And again like how do you measure

553
00:28:19.240 --> 00:28:22.400
<v Speaker 3>it within the science of it? You just have two camps.

554
00:28:22.400 --> 00:28:24.799
<v Speaker 3>There's like people who are like captivity is the worst

555
00:28:24.799 --> 00:28:26.359
<v Speaker 3>and let me show you all the ways, and then

556
00:28:26.400 --> 00:28:29.319
<v Speaker 3>people are like, it's not that bad. Check these experiments

557
00:28:29.319 --> 00:28:31.680
<v Speaker 3>out to show you. So there's no consensus.

558
00:28:32.079 --> 00:28:35.160
<v Speaker 2>So there was a series of papers on cetacean welfare

559
00:28:35.200 --> 00:28:38.079
<v Speaker 2>and professionally managed programs and it was published in twenty

560
00:28:38.079 --> 00:28:41.200
<v Speaker 2>twenty one, and it was about enrichment and habitat use

561
00:28:41.279 --> 00:28:45.839
<v Speaker 2>and cortisol levels. But it was conducted by and partnered

562
00:28:45.839 --> 00:28:50.079
<v Speaker 2>with forty three different zoos and aquaria who tend to

563
00:28:50.160 --> 00:28:53.079
<v Speaker 2>land on the captivity is fine side of the aisle.

564
00:28:53.400 --> 00:28:56.759
<v Speaker 2>Despite the backlash that has erupted in a decade since

565
00:28:56.839 --> 00:29:00.519
<v Speaker 2>the documentary Blackfish gave people the big ick about sea world.

566
00:29:00.799 --> 00:29:03.839
<v Speaker 2>But if you're say, cruisin in the wild, how many

567
00:29:03.839 --> 00:29:07.160
<v Speaker 2>dolphins are out there? What about species of dolphins? How

568
00:29:07.160 --> 00:29:09.079
<v Speaker 2>many dolphins are out there?

569
00:29:09.240 --> 00:29:13.400
<v Speaker 3>Nobody knows? Okay, okay, Like it's about somewhere between thirty

570
00:29:13.400 --> 00:29:16.640
<v Speaker 3>eight forty two. Like scientists fight about that too, Like

571
00:29:16.799 --> 00:29:19.319
<v Speaker 3>I love reading the literature where they're just yelling at

572
00:29:19.359 --> 00:29:22.559
<v Speaker 3>each other about like, well, this ecotype is technically a

573
00:29:22.599 --> 00:29:26.680
<v Speaker 3>new species, blah blah, and they're just fighting. And so

574
00:29:26.720 --> 00:29:29.279
<v Speaker 3>I'm gonna say forty ish, okay.

575
00:29:29.319 --> 00:29:33.559
<v Speaker 2>Forty species. Just to clarify once again, Dolphins, they're not fish.

576
00:29:33.839 --> 00:29:39.440
<v Speaker 2>They're mammals. So evolutionarily, mammals evolved from aquatic creatures that

577
00:29:39.519 --> 00:29:42.039
<v Speaker 2>had come out of the water to live on land.

578
00:29:42.160 --> 00:29:44.799
<v Speaker 2>But fifty million years ago, some of those related to

579
00:29:44.880 --> 00:29:48.599
<v Speaker 2>deer decided fuck this. They started splashing around in the

580
00:29:48.640 --> 00:29:52.559
<v Speaker 2>water again, and eventually they evolved back into sea creatures.

581
00:29:52.960 --> 00:29:59.759
<v Speaker 2>They're closest living relatives hippopotamuses what, and dolphins have leftover

582
00:30:00.079 --> 00:30:04.599
<v Speaker 2>helvis nubbins where hind legs once were. Also, dolphins are

583
00:30:04.599 --> 00:30:07.720
<v Speaker 2>not porpoises. I did not know this. Porpoises have less

584
00:30:07.759 --> 00:30:10.559
<v Speaker 2>of a snout and more of a cone shaped face,

585
00:30:10.880 --> 00:30:14.160
<v Speaker 2>and they have a triangular dorsal fin instead of hooked.

586
00:30:14.240 --> 00:30:17.000
<v Speaker 2>Porpoises also tend to be in cooler waters. Well, dolphins

587
00:30:17.039 --> 00:30:20.440
<v Speaker 2>prefer more temperate oceans. But they're all in the oceans, right.

588
00:30:21.039 --> 00:30:23.440
<v Speaker 2>What about the pink ones. Why are some of them pink?

589
00:30:23.559 --> 00:30:26.920
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, there's the well, there's a pink river dolphin freshwater. Yes,

590
00:30:26.960 --> 00:30:29.359
<v Speaker 3>they live in the Amazon, and so there are a

591
00:30:29.359 --> 00:30:31.119
<v Speaker 3>few species, as a handful of six or seven that

592
00:30:31.160 --> 00:30:35.079
<v Speaker 3>live in fresh water. They're always the most screwed because

593
00:30:35.079 --> 00:30:37.440
<v Speaker 3>they live close to people. But the pink ones, they

594
00:30:37.440 --> 00:30:40.319
<v Speaker 3>start out gray. This is the weird thing about river dolphins.

595
00:30:40.359 --> 00:30:43.400
<v Speaker 3>And then they get all that pink skin from like

596
00:30:43.960 --> 00:30:46.039
<v Speaker 3>chewing on each other. So there's just a lot of

597
00:30:46.599 --> 00:30:49.119
<v Speaker 3>scar tissue in things. I think is the main reason

598
00:30:49.160 --> 00:30:53.759
<v Speaker 3>for the pinkness, which is weird. No, yeah, that's my

599
00:30:53.880 --> 00:30:57.440
<v Speaker 3>understanding of how Amazon river dolphins get kind of pink.

600
00:30:57.599 --> 00:31:00.799
<v Speaker 2>Wow, like hockey players, why are they doing that to

601
00:31:00.880 --> 00:31:01.279
<v Speaker 2>each other?

602
00:31:01.519 --> 00:31:05.000
<v Speaker 3>Well, I always say this, there's similar to people, and

603
00:31:05.039 --> 00:31:07.400
<v Speaker 3>this is the reason we love them and are freaked

604
00:31:07.400 --> 00:31:10.000
<v Speaker 3>out by them and have strong opinions about them because

605
00:31:10.039 --> 00:31:14.160
<v Speaker 3>they fight for their you know, anything having to do

606
00:31:14.319 --> 00:31:16.759
<v Speaker 3>like why do people fight each other? I don't know,

607
00:31:16.839 --> 00:31:19.519
<v Speaker 3>Like why do I neighbor and I not get along? Sometimes?

608
00:31:19.599 --> 00:31:23.799
<v Speaker 3>Like stupid reasons? Complicated social species often fight about stuff.

609
00:31:24.119 --> 00:31:26.279
<v Speaker 3>I mean, there are reasons for like you know, related

610
00:31:26.319 --> 00:31:28.680
<v Speaker 3>to like mating and other things, But for the most part,

611
00:31:28.720 --> 00:31:30.920
<v Speaker 3>they're just they can get grumpy. Wow.

612
00:31:31.279 --> 00:31:34.799
<v Speaker 2>Can you imagine just your whole look is defined on

613
00:31:34.839 --> 00:31:36.519
<v Speaker 2>how much bickering you've done.

614
00:31:37.119 --> 00:31:39.720
<v Speaker 3>It's like an mma fighter, like or like a wrestler

615
00:31:39.759 --> 00:31:42.000
<v Speaker 3>who's got like cauliflower ear, Like you can tell like, oh,

616
00:31:42.039 --> 00:31:44.440
<v Speaker 3>this this person gets in a ton of fights.

617
00:31:44.920 --> 00:31:47.519
<v Speaker 2>Can you imagine if they're like this species of ali

618
00:31:47.559 --> 00:31:50.200
<v Speaker 2>ward has very patchy hair and it's just because people

619
00:31:50.240 --> 00:31:52.799
<v Speaker 2>keep pulling it out because I'm just a bitch, I

620
00:31:52.880 --> 00:31:54.400
<v Speaker 2>just keep getting it far fights.

621
00:31:54.799 --> 00:31:57.559
<v Speaker 3>It's true, well, I mean almost all species. Like they're

622
00:31:57.559 --> 00:32:00.160
<v Speaker 3>covered in something called rake marks, which is when a

623
00:32:00.200 --> 00:32:03.640
<v Speaker 3>dolphin bites another dolphin and like drags its teeth across it.

624
00:32:04.079 --> 00:32:06.519
<v Speaker 3>They don't scar up very deeply, but they'll last for

625
00:32:06.599 --> 00:32:09.759
<v Speaker 3>maybe a year. And so like any species that you

626
00:32:09.839 --> 00:32:12.680
<v Speaker 3>see is just covered in rake marks. Rizos dolphins, I

627
00:32:12.680 --> 00:32:14.480
<v Speaker 3>don't know if you've ever seen these. They're kind of big,

628
00:32:14.759 --> 00:32:16.920
<v Speaker 3>and they got a blunt head and they are like

629
00:32:16.960 --> 00:32:20.119
<v Speaker 3>this patchwork gray and they are just covered at all

630
00:32:20.160 --> 00:32:22.880
<v Speaker 3>times in rake marks. They're just biting each other in cess.

631
00:32:22.920 --> 00:32:25.119
<v Speaker 3>It'd be like you and all of your friends just

632
00:32:25.119 --> 00:32:26.039
<v Speaker 3>had your hair ripped out.

633
00:32:26.039 --> 00:32:28.920
<v Speaker 2>All the time, so feisty. I guess they do that

634
00:32:28.960 --> 00:32:31.400
<v Speaker 2>instead of having like city council meetings where everyone's yelling,

635
00:32:31.440 --> 00:32:34.240
<v Speaker 2>which is like another way to live. But what is

636
00:32:34.279 --> 00:32:36.119
<v Speaker 2>their skin like? Have you ever touched dolphin skin?

637
00:32:36.759 --> 00:32:40.440
<v Speaker 3>I have touched a lot of dead dolphin skin and

638
00:32:40.480 --> 00:32:43.640
<v Speaker 3>a living dolphin skin maybe once. And it is it

639
00:32:43.680 --> 00:32:45.920
<v Speaker 3>is not like a weird rubber tire, which looks like

640
00:32:45.960 --> 00:32:48.720
<v Speaker 3>it's actually kind of warm and nice and smooth.

641
00:32:49.000 --> 00:32:51.319
<v Speaker 2>It's warm, Yes, they're warm.

642
00:32:51.599 --> 00:32:55.680
<v Speaker 3>It's nice. It's lovely to touch. Actually, it's not like

643
00:32:55.759 --> 00:32:57.799
<v Speaker 3>clammy and cold like a piece of rubber.

644
00:32:58.079 --> 00:33:00.440
<v Speaker 2>If you put my hand on a religious test and

645
00:33:00.519 --> 00:33:03.119
<v Speaker 2>forced me to guess the body temperature of a dolphin,

646
00:33:03.200 --> 00:33:06.799
<v Speaker 2>I would be like sixty five degrees like whatever. The

647
00:33:06.839 --> 00:33:10.240
<v Speaker 2>temperature of a wet rag is incorrect. So I look

648
00:33:10.279 --> 00:33:13.240
<v Speaker 2>this up in a paper titled Thermal Tolerance and Bottle

649
00:33:13.279 --> 00:33:16.279
<v Speaker 2>Nose Dolphins, which measured it at a depth of twenty

650
00:33:16.319 --> 00:33:20.079
<v Speaker 2>five centimeters rectally, that's nine to ten inches up the

651
00:33:20.119 --> 00:33:23.200
<v Speaker 2>butt of a dolphin. And it turns out that dolphin

652
00:33:23.240 --> 00:33:27.599
<v Speaker 2>body temperature is thirty six to thirty seven degrees celsius.

653
00:33:27.720 --> 00:33:30.599
<v Speaker 2>And Americans, I got you. That is ninety six point

654
00:33:30.680 --> 00:33:33.920
<v Speaker 2>eight to ninety eight point six degrees fahrenheit, also known

655
00:33:34.000 --> 00:33:37.720
<v Speaker 2>as your body temperature right now. So dolphins are out there,

656
00:33:37.839 --> 00:33:42.200
<v Speaker 2>skinny dipping through ocean tides with the same damn temperature

657
00:33:42.240 --> 00:33:45.720
<v Speaker 2>as us thanks to some blubber. But given that they're

658
00:33:45.759 --> 00:33:48.039
<v Speaker 2>the same temperature as us, and they have brains like

659
00:33:48.039 --> 00:33:51.279
<v Speaker 2>ours but larger, I wondered, like, does heat have anything

660
00:33:51.319 --> 00:33:55.480
<v Speaker 2>to do with cephalization rates? Are bigger brains hotter? And

661
00:33:55.519 --> 00:33:58.680
<v Speaker 2>I happen upon the twenty twenty one study amplification of

662
00:33:58.759 --> 00:34:03.640
<v Speaker 2>potential thermogenic mechanisms in cetation brains compared to ardidactyl brains

663
00:34:03.839 --> 00:34:07.839
<v Speaker 2>aka hoofed ungulates from which they evolved. So this study

664
00:34:07.880 --> 00:34:12.239
<v Speaker 2>said that because dolphin brains have much smaller prefrontal cortices

665
00:34:12.280 --> 00:34:16.239
<v Speaker 2>than humans and hippocampal regions, all that extra brain matter

666
00:34:16.480 --> 00:34:19.960
<v Speaker 2>might not be going toward cognition but just keeping its

667
00:34:20.079 --> 00:34:24.280
<v Speaker 2>nog and warm, and that their data supports the thermogenesis

668
00:34:24.320 --> 00:34:29.920
<v Speaker 2>hypothesis of cetace brain evolution and function. Rude but interesting.

669
00:34:30.320 --> 00:34:32.400
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, And their skin is very similar to ours in

670
00:34:32.519 --> 00:34:34.679
<v Speaker 3>terms of all the receptors it has on it for

671
00:34:35.079 --> 00:34:37.719
<v Speaker 3>you know, light touch or whatever. It's very very sensitive.

672
00:34:37.719 --> 00:34:40.519
<v Speaker 3>They have very sensitive skin, especially around the blowhole where

673
00:34:40.519 --> 00:34:42.119
<v Speaker 3>they need to go up to the surface to breathe,

674
00:34:42.119 --> 00:34:44.599
<v Speaker 3>because then they know when they've pierced through the water

675
00:34:44.679 --> 00:34:46.760
<v Speaker 3>and they can sense the air. It's very similar in

676
00:34:46.760 --> 00:34:47.280
<v Speaker 3>the way to ours.

677
00:34:47.519 --> 00:34:52.159
<v Speaker 2>More on sensitive blowholes later. How long can they stay

678
00:34:52.239 --> 00:34:57.960
<v Speaker 2>underwater and surface and they have to think to breathe?

679
00:34:58.199 --> 00:35:01.920
<v Speaker 3>Yes, they are conscious breas so like you and I

680
00:35:01.960 --> 00:35:05.480
<v Speaker 3>like as we're talking, like our breathing is happening subconsciously,

681
00:35:05.519 --> 00:35:07.199
<v Speaker 3>it's part of our brain just handles it. When we

682
00:35:07.239 --> 00:35:09.519
<v Speaker 3>go to sleep, we're breathing. Dolphins do not have that.

683
00:35:09.760 --> 00:35:13.480
<v Speaker 3>They are literally consciously saying like okay, breathe now. Like

684
00:35:13.519 --> 00:35:15.920
<v Speaker 3>they do not have the ability to turn it off

685
00:35:15.960 --> 00:35:18.679
<v Speaker 3>and just have it happen automatically, which just makes sense

686
00:35:18.800 --> 00:35:21.800
<v Speaker 3>because most of the time they're underwater, so if their

687
00:35:21.840 --> 00:35:23.519
<v Speaker 3>brain was like, hey, I'm gonna take a breath now,

688
00:35:23.559 --> 00:35:25.280
<v Speaker 3>they'd be like, oh no, no, and then they just drowned.

689
00:35:25.840 --> 00:35:29.400
<v Speaker 3>So thankfully they have voluntary control over it. And the

690
00:35:29.519 --> 00:35:32.960
<v Speaker 3>dolphins species don't hold their breath all that long, like

691
00:35:33.159 --> 00:35:35.239
<v Speaker 3>there are some human divers, like free divers, who can

692
00:35:35.280 --> 00:35:39.119
<v Speaker 3>hold their breath longer than some dolphin species, so they

693
00:35:39.159 --> 00:35:41.039
<v Speaker 3>do come up to breathe quite a bit.

694
00:35:41.280 --> 00:35:43.800
<v Speaker 2>So usually they surface two to three times a minute

695
00:35:43.840 --> 00:35:46.519
<v Speaker 2>to breathe, but they can on average hold their breath

696
00:35:46.559 --> 00:35:49.400
<v Speaker 2>for around ten minutes, and a sperm whale can hold

697
00:35:49.400 --> 00:35:51.880
<v Speaker 2>its breath for up to ninety minutes while hunting in

698
00:35:51.920 --> 00:35:55.119
<v Speaker 2>the deeps. But the mammalian record is a beaked whale

699
00:35:55.360 --> 00:35:58.960
<v Speaker 2>that lasted two hundred and twenty two minutes underwater without breathing,

700
00:35:59.079 --> 00:36:03.079
<v Speaker 2>or three points seven hours. That is the exact length

701
00:36:03.239 --> 00:36:06.599
<v Speaker 2>of the nineteen sixty two film Lawrence of Arabia. You

702
00:36:06.599 --> 00:36:09.519
<v Speaker 2>can probably hold your breath, but don't try it using

703
00:36:09.519 --> 00:36:11.559
<v Speaker 2>that film because you can probably only hold your breath

704
00:36:11.639 --> 00:36:14.840
<v Speaker 2>for thirty to sixty seconds. But a Tom cruise can

705
00:36:14.880 --> 00:36:17.679
<v Speaker 2>hold its breath for six minutes, and a Kate Winslet

706
00:36:17.679 --> 00:36:20.840
<v Speaker 2>can famously best that with a seven minute and fifteen

707
00:36:20.920 --> 00:36:25.079
<v Speaker 2>second breath hold for the film Avatar too. And those numbers,

708
00:36:25.159 --> 00:36:28.159
<v Speaker 2>I'm sorry, guys, they're weak. Sauce to a man from

709
00:36:28.280 --> 00:36:31.280
<v Speaker 2>Croatia who breathed in pure oxygen and then held it

710
00:36:31.320 --> 00:36:34.280
<v Speaker 2>for over twenty four minutes, breaking the world record in

711
00:36:34.320 --> 00:36:37.000
<v Speaker 2>twenty twenty one. But you know what, thirty to sixty

712
00:36:37.039 --> 00:36:39.920
<v Speaker 2>seconds is fine. That's fine. Breathing as cool as hell.

713
00:36:40.199 --> 00:36:42.159
<v Speaker 2>You have nothing to prove, so just keep at it

714
00:36:42.199 --> 00:36:44.840
<v Speaker 2>as often as you need to. Okay, what about sleeping?

715
00:36:45.599 --> 00:36:47.239
<v Speaker 2>I feel like I read somewhere. Tell me if this

716
00:36:47.360 --> 00:36:50.400
<v Speaker 2>is whimflam. Does one half of their brain sleep while

717
00:36:50.400 --> 00:36:51.480
<v Speaker 2>the other one is awake?

718
00:36:51.880 --> 00:36:53.920
<v Speaker 3>Does that Happen's totally true?

719
00:36:54.159 --> 00:36:54.679
<v Speaker 2>Oh my god.

720
00:36:54.760 --> 00:36:58.119
<v Speaker 3>Okay, yeah, And it's because of this conscious breathing thing,

721
00:36:58.320 --> 00:37:00.960
<v Speaker 3>and so, like you know how, like one half of

722
00:37:00.960 --> 00:37:03.239
<v Speaker 3>the brain is connected to the opposite side of the body.

723
00:37:03.320 --> 00:37:05.320
<v Speaker 3>So if you see a sleeping dolphin, they will have

724
00:37:05.400 --> 00:37:07.360
<v Speaker 3>like one eye clothes and the other one is open,

725
00:37:07.719 --> 00:37:11.599
<v Speaker 3>and they're just sort of lazily swimming along. And that's

726
00:37:11.639 --> 00:37:14.199
<v Speaker 3>because half of their brain is keeping them awake to

727
00:37:14.280 --> 00:37:17.039
<v Speaker 3>look out for sharks, to stay with the other dolphin

728
00:37:17.039 --> 00:37:18.920
<v Speaker 3>friends at swimming with, and to go up to the

729
00:37:18.960 --> 00:37:21.679
<v Speaker 3>surface to breathe. And so it'll do that for a

730
00:37:21.719 --> 00:37:23.760
<v Speaker 3>few hours and then it'll switch, so the other side

731
00:37:23.760 --> 00:37:26.320
<v Speaker 3>of the brain now takes over and it'll just sort

732
00:37:26.360 --> 00:37:29.960
<v Speaker 3>of like slowly lazily keep going up to take a breath,

733
00:37:29.960 --> 00:37:32.480
<v Speaker 3>and they sleep for maybe eight ish hours, depending on

734
00:37:32.480 --> 00:37:35.719
<v Speaker 3>the species and total switching off and on, and is that.

735
00:37:35.760 --> 00:37:38.719
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I suppose that must be RESTful enough, right.

736
00:37:38.599 --> 00:37:40.840
<v Speaker 3>Totally it works great for them. And there are these

737
00:37:40.920 --> 00:37:43.960
<v Speaker 3>crazy experiments where they're like, is this really true? So

738
00:37:43.960 --> 00:37:46.000
<v Speaker 3>we're gonna see how awake they are or how much

739
00:37:46.000 --> 00:37:48.079
<v Speaker 3>rest they're getting. And so you do this experiment where

740
00:37:48.559 --> 00:37:50.639
<v Speaker 3>you get the dolphin to like touch a paddle like

741
00:37:50.679 --> 00:37:53.239
<v Speaker 3>every minute, and you just keep that up for hours

742
00:37:53.239 --> 00:37:55.199
<v Speaker 3>and hours and days and days and see if it

743
00:37:55.239 --> 00:37:58.320
<v Speaker 3>will still do it. And yep, they could do it forever.

744
00:37:58.679 --> 00:38:01.599
<v Speaker 3>Like they're awake enough to actually engage in things and

745
00:38:01.679 --> 00:38:03.800
<v Speaker 3>are obviously getting enough sleep to survive.

746
00:38:03.920 --> 00:38:05.760
<v Speaker 2>Wow, what are they eating? Who's eating?

747
00:38:05.760 --> 00:38:09.159
<v Speaker 3>What they eat? The stuff you would totally expect them

748
00:38:09.159 --> 00:38:11.960
<v Speaker 3>to eat. So whatever fish and squid.

749
00:38:11.840 --> 00:38:13.840
<v Speaker 2>And such, do they have to dive really deep?

750
00:38:14.159 --> 00:38:16.559
<v Speaker 3>Some species do need to get down into the area

751
00:38:16.599 --> 00:38:18.960
<v Speaker 3>where the fish are. There are species that will they're

752
00:38:19.000 --> 00:38:21.079
<v Speaker 3>in the shallow parts of the ocean. They'll dig into

753
00:38:21.079 --> 00:38:23.039
<v Speaker 3>the sand. They can actually see into the sand with

754
00:38:23.079 --> 00:38:25.639
<v Speaker 3>their echo location that's a whole thing, and find buried

755
00:38:25.679 --> 00:38:29.840
<v Speaker 3>fish there. And so they will follow fish down around places,

756
00:38:29.960 --> 00:38:32.159
<v Speaker 3>hunting at night to hunting during the day. There's so

757
00:38:32.320 --> 00:38:35.360
<v Speaker 3>many diverse ways that they get food and tactics that

758
00:38:35.400 --> 00:38:38.239
<v Speaker 3>they use, like the tool use you see with sponges

759
00:38:38.280 --> 00:38:40.880
<v Speaker 3>and shark bay. They will use tools to find fish.

760
00:38:40.880 --> 00:38:43.960
<v Speaker 3>They use these crazy techniques. Will they make all these

761
00:38:45.119 --> 00:38:47.519
<v Speaker 3>like mud plumes in a big circle to like herd

762
00:38:47.559 --> 00:38:51.519
<v Speaker 3>the fish in and then they'll jump through. It's crazy complicated.

763
00:38:51.679 --> 00:38:54.679
<v Speaker 2>What about sonar in your face? So Justin is an

764
00:38:54.760 --> 00:38:57.480
<v Speaker 2>expert in this, and we'll get to it right after

765
00:38:57.559 --> 00:38:59.639
<v Speaker 2>a quick break from sponsors who make it possible to

766
00:38:59.679 --> 00:39:02.480
<v Speaker 2>donate to a cause of theologists choosing, And this week

767
00:39:02.679 --> 00:39:06.400
<v Speaker 2>Justin directed it toward the Dolphin Communication Project, whose mission

768
00:39:06.639 --> 00:39:10.039
<v Speaker 2>is to promote the scientific study of dolphins and inspire

769
00:39:10.079 --> 00:39:13.320
<v Speaker 2>their conservation. So, whether you're a young student interested in

770
00:39:13.400 --> 00:39:16.719
<v Speaker 2>learning more about dolphin biology, or a college student looking

771
00:39:16.760 --> 00:39:21.199
<v Speaker 2>for internship experiences working with dolphins, or a seasoned researcher

772
00:39:21.360 --> 00:39:24.280
<v Speaker 2>hoping to connect with colleagues on topics of dolphin behavior,

773
00:39:24.519 --> 00:39:27.840
<v Speaker 2>a college year cognition Dolphin Communication Project as you covered,

774
00:39:27.880 --> 00:39:30.679
<v Speaker 2>and Justin is a senior research associate with them, and

775
00:39:30.880 --> 00:39:33.639
<v Speaker 2>the Dolphin Communication Project will be linked in the show notes.

776
00:39:33.639 --> 00:39:37.480
<v Speaker 2>So thanks sponsors for that. Okay, let's dig into their

777
00:39:37.639 --> 00:39:43.039
<v Speaker 2>enviable ability to see with sound. What about the echolocation

778
00:39:43.519 --> 00:39:45.800
<v Speaker 2>they navigate through dark waters using it.

779
00:39:46.039 --> 00:39:49.280
<v Speaker 3>Yes, so echolocation for dolphins is very similar to bats,

780
00:39:49.519 --> 00:39:52.960
<v Speaker 3>and that they make a click sound and it goes

781
00:39:53.000 --> 00:39:55.719
<v Speaker 3>into the water, bounces off of the thing, and comes back,

782
00:39:55.760 --> 00:39:58.920
<v Speaker 3>and that provides them with some sort of something maybe

783
00:39:58.960 --> 00:40:06.199
<v Speaker 3>like a mental image of war what's out there. There's

784
00:40:06.519 --> 00:40:09.480
<v Speaker 3>great experiments to show that the echolocation is just as

785
00:40:09.480 --> 00:40:12.880
<v Speaker 3>powerful as their vision in terms of producing information about

786
00:40:12.880 --> 00:40:14.800
<v Speaker 3>the objects that it's chasing. And so it works in

787
00:40:14.840 --> 00:40:17.760
<v Speaker 3>the dark, so they can navigate, they can find fish,

788
00:40:17.840 --> 00:40:20.079
<v Speaker 3>hunt fish, all with just making these clicking sounds. And

789
00:40:20.079 --> 00:40:22.880
<v Speaker 3>if you swim with dolphins in the wild especially, it's

790
00:40:23.039 --> 00:40:27.280
<v Speaker 3>just like constant there's constant echolocation happening all the time.

791
00:40:27.599 --> 00:40:30.159
<v Speaker 2>How do they not get confused since they're such social

792
00:40:30.159 --> 00:40:33.440
<v Speaker 2>creatures about whose echolocation is? Where does that ever confuse

793
00:40:33.480 --> 00:40:35.360
<v Speaker 2>them to hear all these click click clickies.

794
00:40:35.719 --> 00:40:37.559
<v Speaker 3>Yes, now, now this is exact. Now you're getting into

795
00:40:37.559 --> 00:40:41.280
<v Speaker 3>the area that I studied for my own PhD stuff. Right, Okay, huh?

796
00:40:41.320 --> 00:40:47.000
<v Speaker 2>His PhD dissertation joint attention and echoic eavesdropping in wild

797
00:40:47.079 --> 00:40:51.840
<v Speaker 2>bottlenose dolphins, dolphins, evesdrop, oh, spill it.

798
00:40:52.119 --> 00:40:55.400
<v Speaker 3>Echolocation is directional in the sense that it doesn't just

799
00:40:55.440 --> 00:40:58.360
<v Speaker 3>go out willy nilly, you know, the top the forehead

800
00:40:58.360 --> 00:41:00.639
<v Speaker 3>of a dolphin. It's like this big claw be lump

801
00:41:01.079 --> 00:41:03.159
<v Speaker 3>that is filled with a fatty material that they can

802
00:41:03.199 --> 00:41:06.760
<v Speaker 3>actually control and move around and shape. And they can

803
00:41:06.800 --> 00:41:10.159
<v Speaker 3>shape the echolocation outgoing clicks into like a beam, so

804
00:41:10.199 --> 00:41:13.599
<v Speaker 3>it's like a flashlight, and they can make it wider

805
00:41:13.679 --> 00:41:17.079
<v Speaker 3>or narrower. And so they're running around with their swimming

806
00:41:17.119 --> 00:41:19.960
<v Speaker 3>around with the flashlight beams out and so they you know,

807
00:41:20.119 --> 00:41:22.800
<v Speaker 3>it's like Ghostbusters. They don't necessari they don't cross the beams.

808
00:41:22.840 --> 00:41:26.119
<v Speaker 3>They can they can separate themselves so that they don't

809
00:41:26.119 --> 00:41:29.599
<v Speaker 3>mess each other up. What now, this is exciting. This

810
00:41:29.639 --> 00:41:32.119
<v Speaker 3>is because this is what I studied. So let's say

811
00:41:32.119 --> 00:41:34.360
<v Speaker 3>you and I are swimming next to each other. We're dolphins,

812
00:41:36.320 --> 00:41:38.880
<v Speaker 3>and you're echo locating on a fish, and I just

813
00:41:38.920 --> 00:41:41.440
<v Speaker 3>happen to be right next to you. The clicks that

814
00:41:41.480 --> 00:41:44.519
<v Speaker 3>you've made also go I can hear them. They go

815
00:41:44.559 --> 00:41:46.559
<v Speaker 3>into my jaw. That's how dolphins, that's where the ear

816
00:41:46.639 --> 00:41:48.920
<v Speaker 3>is up into the inner ear, and I can get

817
00:41:48.920 --> 00:41:51.760
<v Speaker 3>a mental image of what you're echo locating on because

818
00:41:51.800 --> 00:41:54.440
<v Speaker 3>I'm next to you, So whatever you're echo locating on,

819
00:41:54.599 --> 00:41:56.119
<v Speaker 3>I also see in my brain.

820
00:41:56.400 --> 00:41:58.039
<v Speaker 2>Do they hunt together that way?

821
00:41:58.119 --> 00:42:00.320
<v Speaker 3>It seems like they do. Yeah, So like if you

822
00:42:00.360 --> 00:42:02.079
<v Speaker 3>get a group of them, they won't all be like

823
00:42:02.199 --> 00:42:04.440
<v Speaker 3>a click clicklick click, Like there might be a couple

824
00:42:04.519 --> 00:42:06.880
<v Speaker 3>that will make the echo location and the other ones

825
00:42:06.920 --> 00:42:09.280
<v Speaker 3>are quiet next to them. They've got it figured out

826
00:42:09.519 --> 00:42:11.199
<v Speaker 3>so they don't jam each other.

827
00:42:11.440 --> 00:42:13.559
<v Speaker 2>Like if you're on a road trip, you don't need

828
00:42:13.639 --> 00:42:16.599
<v Speaker 2>everyone in the car to drive or even have their

829
00:42:16.639 --> 00:42:20.719
<v Speaker 2>individual phones GPS blaring for the same destination. They're like,

830
00:42:21.119 --> 00:42:24.400
<v Speaker 2>you want to chirp, shry chirp, And another one's like,

831
00:42:24.440 --> 00:42:27.320
<v Speaker 2>hey man, al chirp. If I'm not navigating, I get seasick.

832
00:42:27.599 --> 00:42:31.559
<v Speaker 2>What about some kind of ultrasonic capabilities? Is that through

833
00:42:31.599 --> 00:42:32.199
<v Speaker 2>the echolocation?

834
00:42:32.719 --> 00:42:35.719
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, so humans here up to twenty killer hurtz and

835
00:42:35.800 --> 00:42:38.119
<v Speaker 3>dolphins can make sounds up to like one hundred and

836
00:42:38.119 --> 00:42:40.800
<v Speaker 3>forty hundred and fifty. So just stuff that's way outside

837
00:42:40.800 --> 00:42:43.679
<v Speaker 3>of our range. The clicks work so that the lower ones,

838
00:42:43.719 --> 00:42:47.480
<v Speaker 3>just like us, travel further, and so the higher frequency

839
00:42:47.519 --> 00:42:50.440
<v Speaker 3>clicks that they use give them more detailed information. So

840
00:42:50.480 --> 00:42:52.719
<v Speaker 3>if they really need to figure out the details, they'll

841
00:42:52.800 --> 00:42:55.199
<v Speaker 3>change the you know, where the energy is in the

842
00:42:55.199 --> 00:42:58.519
<v Speaker 3>frequency spectrum to get better details of things, and they'll

843
00:42:58.599 --> 00:42:59.880
<v Speaker 3>use those really high frequencies for.

844
00:43:00.719 --> 00:43:03.719
<v Speaker 2>I remember Joy Riidenberg, so we had her on for

845
00:43:03.800 --> 00:43:09.239
<v Speaker 2>functional morphology and she she's amazing, and she mentioned about

846
00:43:09.239 --> 00:43:12.280
<v Speaker 2>how dolphins were used for military training all kinds of things.

847
00:43:12.480 --> 00:43:16.559
<v Speaker 2>She also mentioned that when she was pregnant, dolphins gathered

848
00:43:16.599 --> 00:43:19.440
<v Speaker 2>all around her kind of like poking at her belly,

849
00:43:19.559 --> 00:43:23.320
<v Speaker 2>like there's another one in here, and that they're able

850
00:43:23.400 --> 00:43:25.480
<v Speaker 2>to almost like see things like an ultrasound.

851
00:43:26.280 --> 00:43:29.559
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, a lot of people have that particular story, like

852
00:43:29.599 --> 00:43:33.159
<v Speaker 3>their dolphins are interested in pregnant women. That seems to

853
00:43:33.199 --> 00:43:36.039
<v Speaker 3>be happened so much that it's probably true. I don't

854
00:43:36.039 --> 00:43:39.480
<v Speaker 3>know if it's been formally studied, but it's completely within

855
00:43:39.519 --> 00:43:42.199
<v Speaker 3>the realm of normalcy because they had their you know,

856
00:43:42.199 --> 00:43:44.280
<v Speaker 3>the echo location clicks are in the water, and like

857
00:43:44.440 --> 00:43:48.079
<v Speaker 3>human tissue is mostly water, so it's not too difficult

858
00:43:48.119 --> 00:43:51.440
<v Speaker 3>for that click to go through the belly hit the baby,

859
00:43:51.519 --> 00:43:54.239
<v Speaker 3>and then the baby's got like bones in it, so

860
00:43:54.280 --> 00:43:56.559
<v Speaker 3>they can it bounces off of the bones and comes out.

861
00:43:56.559 --> 00:43:58.360
<v Speaker 3>So if a dolphin is used to echo locating on

862
00:43:58.400 --> 00:44:01.840
<v Speaker 3>a regular, non pregnant person and it doesn't have a

863
00:44:01.880 --> 00:44:04.280
<v Speaker 3>weird sack of bones in the front of the stomach,

864
00:44:04.480 --> 00:44:07.639
<v Speaker 3>and then suddenly they show up with a sack of bones,

865
00:44:07.639 --> 00:44:12.280
<v Speaker 3>They're like, what is this? I would like to see

866
00:44:12.280 --> 00:44:12.880
<v Speaker 3>the baby.

867
00:44:13.039 --> 00:44:17.800
<v Speaker 2>What about dolphins pregnant themselves? Do they have litters of two?

868
00:44:17.880 --> 00:44:20.440
<v Speaker 2>Do they have ones? What do they tend to produce?

869
00:44:20.599 --> 00:44:23.760
<v Speaker 3>They're usually popping out just the one and and that's

870
00:44:24.360 --> 00:44:27.960
<v Speaker 3>the strongest bond in the dolphin community. Most all species

871
00:44:28.000 --> 00:44:29.679
<v Speaker 3>is between the mother and the calves. So the calf

872
00:44:29.679 --> 00:44:31.639
<v Speaker 3>comes out and it's kind of small. It comes out

873
00:44:31.639 --> 00:44:34.440
<v Speaker 3>all folded up. It's absolutely adorable if you like look

874
00:44:34.440 --> 00:44:37.360
<v Speaker 3>on YouTube for like dolphin berth. They come out and

875
00:44:37.400 --> 00:44:39.920
<v Speaker 3>they're all like they're literally folded. The dorsal fin is

876
00:44:39.920 --> 00:44:42.719
<v Speaker 3>flopped over, the flukes are flopped over, and it just

877
00:44:42.760 --> 00:44:45.039
<v Speaker 3>sort of plops out like a little plush toy.

878
00:44:45.320 --> 00:44:48.599
<v Speaker 2>Now, given that they have a face shaped like a dildo,

879
00:44:48.800 --> 00:44:52.960
<v Speaker 2>you would imagine they would come out snoot first, but no,

880
00:44:53.440 --> 00:44:57.239
<v Speaker 2>oh no, dolphin babies they're called calves because again they

881
00:44:57.280 --> 00:44:59.960
<v Speaker 2>descended from deer that were on dry land. These att

882
00:45:00.039 --> 00:45:05.320
<v Speaker 2>remlins scoot out of dolphin vagina's tail first, which is

883
00:45:05.559 --> 00:45:08.960
<v Speaker 2>not aerodynamic, but they end with a bang on their

884
00:45:09.000 --> 00:45:12.519
<v Speaker 2>face reveal they're like, hallu, it's me. And then also

885
00:45:12.880 --> 00:45:16.280
<v Speaker 2>a plume of what looks like strawberry jam in the water,

886
00:45:16.519 --> 00:45:19.119
<v Speaker 2>kind of like a party horn, and they're immediately swimming

887
00:45:19.239 --> 00:45:21.760
<v Speaker 2>as if they'd been doing laps in the MoMA dolphin,

888
00:45:21.920 --> 00:45:25.719
<v Speaker 2>who is a fish with a womb but not a fish.

889
00:45:24.880 --> 00:45:26.719
<v Speaker 3>And then the mom pushes it up to the surface

890
00:45:26.800 --> 00:45:29.360
<v Speaker 3>and then and then it's there. It stays right next

891
00:45:29.360 --> 00:45:31.760
<v Speaker 3>to the mom, almost not leaving the mom's side for

892
00:45:31.880 --> 00:45:34.840
<v Speaker 3>like months and months, and it'll be there for two years,

893
00:45:34.880 --> 00:45:36.039
<v Speaker 3>like nursing off o her.

894
00:45:36.280 --> 00:45:38.119
<v Speaker 2>Where are them boobies?

895
00:45:39.159 --> 00:45:42.760
<v Speaker 3>They are inside, So you have these mammary slits, so

896
00:45:42.800 --> 00:45:45.239
<v Speaker 3>they're literally they look literally like just somebody like slit

897
00:45:45.360 --> 00:45:48.239
<v Speaker 3>the dolphin with a knife, and they're on just on

898
00:45:48.280 --> 00:45:51.840
<v Speaker 3>the side of you know, the biblical area and the

899
00:45:51.840 --> 00:45:53.960
<v Speaker 3>genitals up from that. And so if you're a little

900
00:45:53.960 --> 00:45:56.639
<v Speaker 3>dolphin and you want to drink of milk, you poke

901
00:45:56.880 --> 00:45:59.119
<v Speaker 3>at that area with your rostrum.

902
00:45:58.760 --> 00:46:01.639
<v Speaker 2>So that's the nose and it comes from the Latin

903
00:46:01.639 --> 00:46:02.679
<v Speaker 2>word for beak.

904
00:46:02.639 --> 00:46:06.440
<v Speaker 3>And then the mom sort of squirts out milk in

905
00:46:06.519 --> 00:46:09.239
<v Speaker 3>like a jet and then and the dolphin drinks it,

906
00:46:09.280 --> 00:46:11.960
<v Speaker 3>so they're not putting their rostrum inside it. Just it

907
00:46:11.960 --> 00:46:15.360
<v Speaker 3>comes out like a I don't know, like you're hosing

908
00:46:15.360 --> 00:46:17.239
<v Speaker 3>somebody down with like a beer from a keg. You know,

909
00:46:17.239 --> 00:46:18.920
<v Speaker 3>I can't. I don't know what the analogy is, but

910
00:46:19.960 --> 00:46:20.840
<v Speaker 3>it shoots.

911
00:46:20.480 --> 00:46:23.119
<v Speaker 2>Out like an espresso machine, like.

912
00:46:23.119 --> 00:46:25.239
<v Speaker 3>An espresso machine with yummy milk.

913
00:46:25.440 --> 00:46:29.639
<v Speaker 2>Okay, what about mating? Are their alpha males? Are there

914
00:46:30.159 --> 00:46:35.599
<v Speaker 2>pods of roving, horny males? I mean, what's going on?

915
00:46:35.679 --> 00:46:38.400
<v Speaker 3>Man? It is? It depends on the species, but for

916
00:46:38.440 --> 00:46:41.840
<v Speaker 3>bottle nose and generally mostly it works the same for

917
00:46:41.880 --> 00:46:45.440
<v Speaker 3>all species, which is you have female groups and then

918
00:46:45.480 --> 00:46:49.360
<v Speaker 3>you have males, and they're promiscuous in the sense that

919
00:46:49.760 --> 00:46:52.480
<v Speaker 3>males will just sort of mate with females willy nilly.

920
00:46:52.719 --> 00:46:54.960
<v Speaker 3>They don't know if they've fathered a calf at all,

921
00:46:55.360 --> 00:46:57.599
<v Speaker 3>so you never know who the father of any dolphin is.

922
00:46:57.599 --> 00:47:00.239
<v Speaker 3>Within dolphins society, they don't have the vaguest idea who

923
00:47:00.239 --> 00:47:03.000
<v Speaker 3>impregnated them. But you do have a lot of dolphin

924
00:47:03.079 --> 00:47:07.400
<v Speaker 3>social systems built around this tension of like females trying

925
00:47:07.400 --> 00:47:09.400
<v Speaker 3>to stay away from all of those males who want

926
00:47:09.480 --> 00:47:12.559
<v Speaker 3>to mate with them. That's like the main tension, because

927
00:47:12.559 --> 00:47:14.679
<v Speaker 3>the females want the choice of who they're mating with.

928
00:47:14.920 --> 00:47:18.960
<v Speaker 3>The males just want to mate with everybody. Ah, And

929
00:47:19.000 --> 00:47:21.800
<v Speaker 3>that's when you get these these coalition groups like you

930
00:47:21.840 --> 00:47:25.400
<v Speaker 3>see in Shark Bay, Australia, very famous, where you have

931
00:47:25.800 --> 00:47:28.480
<v Speaker 3>like three or four males that will form like sometimes

932
00:47:28.480 --> 00:47:31.480
<v Speaker 3>a lifelong bond. They spend all their time with each other,

933
00:47:31.840 --> 00:47:35.599
<v Speaker 3>and their little group is designed mostly to just find

934
00:47:35.679 --> 00:47:38.599
<v Speaker 3>females as a group and try and mate with them.

935
00:47:38.840 --> 00:47:41.239
<v Speaker 3>And that group will join up with a rival groups

936
00:47:41.280 --> 00:47:44.119
<v Speaker 3>sometimes and like form an alliance. And so now you

937
00:47:44.119 --> 00:47:46.320
<v Speaker 3>have two male groups trying to chase that after the

938
00:47:46.360 --> 00:47:49.280
<v Speaker 3>female and even these super alliances of like other groups.

939
00:47:49.480 --> 00:47:52.480
<v Speaker 3>And so you have this missmash of like mafia groups

940
00:47:52.519 --> 00:47:56.119
<v Speaker 3>all sort of collaborating and competing just to mate with

941
00:47:56.159 --> 00:47:56.800
<v Speaker 3>the females.

942
00:47:57.440 --> 00:48:00.440
<v Speaker 2>It's creeps, full on creeps. I'm going to guess that

943
00:48:00.519 --> 00:48:02.079
<v Speaker 2>it is not always consensual.

944
00:48:02.320 --> 00:48:06.519
<v Speaker 3>Aha. Now we're into something so exciting when it comes

945
00:48:06.559 --> 00:48:09.400
<v Speaker 3>to dolphins that people, I'm sure you're gonna probably ask

946
00:48:09.440 --> 00:48:11.760
<v Speaker 3>me a lot of weird questions about this. But what

947
00:48:11.920 --> 00:48:16.480
<v Speaker 3>is consensual is a weird question in the animal kingdom

948
00:48:16.559 --> 00:48:21.079
<v Speaker 3>because you have like forced copulation like your otters. You've

949
00:48:21.079 --> 00:48:22.159
<v Speaker 3>heard the otter story.

950
00:48:22.239 --> 00:48:24.920
<v Speaker 2>You can see the Lutrinology episode for more on this.

951
00:48:25.119 --> 00:48:27.800
<v Speaker 2>It will blow your mind, it'll break your heart, it'll

952
00:48:28.039 --> 00:48:29.960
<v Speaker 2>shatter your love of otters. I'm sorry.

953
00:48:30.440 --> 00:48:33.320
<v Speaker 3>And it is like crazy, like the male will grab

954
00:48:33.360 --> 00:48:35.840
<v Speaker 3>the female and like, and she does not look like

955
00:48:35.920 --> 00:48:39.000
<v Speaker 3>she is all interested in that, but what is that,

956
00:48:39.119 --> 00:48:41.440
<v Speaker 3>Like it's part of the system, and so like it's

957
00:48:41.480 --> 00:48:43.639
<v Speaker 3>really difficult to know what a female otter is thinking

958
00:48:43.639 --> 00:48:46.280
<v Speaker 3>in that. But what's weird with dolphins is they don't

959
00:48:46.280 --> 00:48:51.039
<v Speaker 3>have hands or feet or and so like there's nobody

960
00:48:51.079 --> 00:48:55.079
<v Speaker 3>grabbing anybody and holding them, so it never there's no

961
00:48:55.159 --> 00:48:59.079
<v Speaker 3>examples of forced copulation in the dolphin world in that sense,

962
00:48:59.440 --> 00:49:01.639
<v Speaker 3>because it looks kind of like the female is not

963
00:49:01.719 --> 00:49:04.079
<v Speaker 3>interested in mating with these, but sort of maybe it's

964
00:49:04.119 --> 00:49:07.119
<v Speaker 3>hard to tell what's going on, and so maybe she

965
00:49:07.280 --> 00:49:10.679
<v Speaker 3>is interested. But then you get into vaginas and then

966
00:49:10.760 --> 00:49:11.599
<v Speaker 3>things get interesting.

967
00:49:11.760 --> 00:49:13.440
<v Speaker 2>Talk to me about dolphin vaginas.

968
00:49:13.760 --> 00:49:17.760
<v Speaker 3>So there's so many cool experiments on vaginas, and they

969
00:49:18.639 --> 00:49:22.119
<v Speaker 3>species have folds in their vaginas, right, So like the

970
00:49:22.199 --> 00:49:25.320
<v Speaker 3>vagina of a dolphin depending on species, is pretty convoluted.

971
00:49:25.320 --> 00:49:28.599
<v Speaker 3>It's almost weirdly cork screwy shaped with all these weird

972
00:49:28.639 --> 00:49:32.519
<v Speaker 3>cavities and folds. And that tells you that there's competition

973
00:49:33.000 --> 00:49:35.199
<v Speaker 3>between the male and the female when it comes to

974
00:49:35.239 --> 00:49:38.239
<v Speaker 3>whose sperm gets to fertilize the egg. So a female

975
00:49:38.320 --> 00:49:41.119
<v Speaker 3>might not want to mate with like these three males

976
00:49:41.159 --> 00:49:43.320
<v Speaker 3>that are coming at her, but she will end up

977
00:49:43.320 --> 00:49:45.760
<v Speaker 3>mating with them. But while she's mating with them, let's

978
00:49:45.760 --> 00:49:48.679
<v Speaker 3>say she likes George's she likes George the best, she'd

979
00:49:48.679 --> 00:49:50.440
<v Speaker 3>like him to be the dad, and she doesn't like

980
00:49:50.559 --> 00:49:53.920
<v Speaker 3>Fred and Charlie. And so while Fred and Charlie are

981
00:49:54.039 --> 00:49:56.960
<v Speaker 3>they've ejaculated inside her, she can sort of twist her

982
00:49:57.000 --> 00:49:59.440
<v Speaker 3>body and shift the vagina around so that the sperm

983
00:49:59.480 --> 00:50:01.920
<v Speaker 3>ends up like a fold somewhere, and then the other

984
00:50:01.960 --> 00:50:04.320
<v Speaker 3>guy she wants to mate with, she can kind of

985
00:50:04.519 --> 00:50:08.280
<v Speaker 3>make it so that sperm gets through. So in that sense,

986
00:50:08.440 --> 00:50:10.880
<v Speaker 3>she might be cool with mating with a bunch of

987
00:50:10.920 --> 00:50:13.519
<v Speaker 3>these dudes, even though she doesn't necessarily want them all

988
00:50:13.599 --> 00:50:15.760
<v Speaker 3>to be the dad, but she has some control.

989
00:50:16.039 --> 00:50:18.239
<v Speaker 2>Oh my god, I'm just putting it away in a drawer.

990
00:50:18.320 --> 00:50:22.320
<v Speaker 2>She's like, I'm not gonna use this. I mean, oh

991
00:50:22.360 --> 00:50:26.320
<v Speaker 2>my god, what about blowhole sex? Does that happen for

992
00:50:26.360 --> 00:50:26.840
<v Speaker 2>some reason?

993
00:50:26.880 --> 00:50:30.440
<v Speaker 3>If I go down in infamy, it's for having debunked

994
00:50:30.440 --> 00:50:33.320
<v Speaker 3>the concept of blowhole sex. So please allow me to

995
00:50:33.360 --> 00:50:37.119
<v Speaker 3>talk about this. This is my this is my favorite

996
00:50:37.199 --> 00:50:46.039
<v Speaker 3>subject and which is why. Okay, so let's get into it. Like,

997
00:50:46.880 --> 00:50:50.119
<v Speaker 3>there are lots of pictures on the Internet of this

998
00:50:50.239 --> 00:50:52.880
<v Speaker 3>one like drawing of blowhole sex. And Ricky Gervais did

999
00:50:52.880 --> 00:50:55.440
<v Speaker 3>a whole comedy special where he talks about blowhole sex.

1000
00:50:55.679 --> 00:50:58.480
<v Speaker 3>He shows this picture. Come the next one, please, always

1001
00:50:58.519 --> 00:50:58.880
<v Speaker 3>a good one.

1002
00:51:00.159 --> 00:51:04.679
<v Speaker 2>Forms of copulation between botos, the type of dolphin genital

1003
00:51:04.760 --> 00:51:06.840
<v Speaker 2>slit oriinal penetration above.

1004
00:51:08.119 --> 00:51:09.480
<v Speaker 3>And blowhole penetration.

1005
00:51:11.519 --> 00:51:12.079
<v Speaker 2>Oh yes.

1006
00:51:12.199 --> 00:51:17.000
<v Speaker 3>And the idea is like a dolphin will be underwater

1007
00:51:17.199 --> 00:51:19.840
<v Speaker 3>with another dolphin and stick the penis in the blowhole.

1008
00:51:20.239 --> 00:51:20.639
<v Speaker 4>Mm hmm.

1009
00:51:21.360 --> 00:51:24.360
<v Speaker 3>So when I heard this that there's like a picture,

1010
00:51:24.400 --> 00:51:26.199
<v Speaker 3>so I'm like, it must be from a scientific study.

1011
00:51:26.360 --> 00:51:28.360
<v Speaker 3>But to me, I'm like, this doesn't make any damn

1012
00:51:28.480 --> 00:51:32.320
<v Speaker 3>sense because if a dolphin opens its blowhole underwater, which

1013
00:51:32.360 --> 00:51:35.039
<v Speaker 3>we know is a conscious act. It has to decide

1014
00:51:35.039 --> 00:51:38.239
<v Speaker 3>to do that. Water gets in its lungs and that's

1015
00:51:38.320 --> 00:51:41.400
<v Speaker 3>bad and it would die. So I'm like that, there's

1016
00:51:41.519 --> 00:51:43.719
<v Speaker 3>no way they're doing that. So I'm like, where does

1017
00:51:43.760 --> 00:51:45.599
<v Speaker 3>this come from? And so I tracked down where that

1018
00:51:45.679 --> 00:51:48.519
<v Speaker 3>image came from, and it's from this one paper, which

1019
00:51:48.559 --> 00:51:52.480
<v Speaker 3>is referencing another paper from like ages and ages ago.

1020
00:51:52.519 --> 00:51:56.440
<v Speaker 3>So I found the original and only reference to dolphin

1021
00:51:56.440 --> 00:51:59.440
<v Speaker 3>blowhole sex in the Pere reviewed literature, and it was

1022
00:51:59.480 --> 00:52:02.400
<v Speaker 3>from this observation in a zoo in Germany where there

1023
00:52:02.400 --> 00:52:04.039
<v Speaker 3>are these river dolphins.

1024
00:52:03.639 --> 00:52:06.800
<v Speaker 2>As detailed in the nineteen eighty five paper some Observations

1025
00:52:06.840 --> 00:52:10.440
<v Speaker 2>on Behavior of two or Noco Dolphins in Captivity at

1026
00:52:10.719 --> 00:52:14.400
<v Speaker 2>Duisberg Zoo in the Journal of Aquatic Mammals. There are

1027
00:52:14.440 --> 00:52:18.760
<v Speaker 2>also illustrations in which the dolphins appear to be smiling, and.

1028
00:52:18.679 --> 00:52:21.480
<v Speaker 3>The people who are observing it said, oh, the dolphins

1029
00:52:21.559 --> 00:52:25.199
<v Speaker 3>penis sometimes during these social play things with two males

1030
00:52:25.639 --> 00:52:28.599
<v Speaker 3>would go around and sometimes into the blowhole of the

1031
00:52:28.639 --> 00:52:31.320
<v Speaker 3>other dolphin. And I'm like, okay, that sounds wrong. So

1032
00:52:31.400 --> 00:52:33.519
<v Speaker 3>I tried to track down the authors, like most of

1033
00:52:33.559 --> 00:52:35.639
<v Speaker 3>them were dead. I found a living one. I'm like,

1034
00:52:35.800 --> 00:52:38.480
<v Speaker 3>were you there? Did you see a penis going into

1035
00:52:38.480 --> 00:52:41.679
<v Speaker 3>the blowhole? And he's like, no, it played around the blowhole,

1036
00:52:41.679 --> 00:52:43.960
<v Speaker 3>it never went in. And that's it. That was the

1037
00:52:44.000 --> 00:52:48.039
<v Speaker 3>only scientific observation of blowhole sex. And it never happened.

1038
00:52:48.159 --> 00:52:52.559
<v Speaker 3>So not even the tip, no, no, just just the tip,

1039
00:52:52.639 --> 00:52:55.760
<v Speaker 3>he said. And no, there's not even the tip. Everything

1040
00:52:55.840 --> 00:52:58.199
<v Speaker 3>was fully out the myth as we know it, yes,

1041
00:52:58.360 --> 00:52:59.480
<v Speaker 3>is busted there.

1042
00:53:00.199 --> 00:53:03.679
<v Speaker 2>Well, what's have any communication wise? Like do you do

1043
00:53:03.760 --> 00:53:07.519
<v Speaker 2>you think you can glean anything about dolphins sexuality based

1044
00:53:07.559 --> 00:53:09.280
<v Speaker 2>on the squeaky squeaks.

1045
00:53:08.880 --> 00:53:12.400
<v Speaker 3>That they make about their sexuality? Yeah, it's hard to know.

1046
00:53:12.440 --> 00:53:14.440
<v Speaker 3>I mean, that's when you're studying dolphin communication. That's the

1047
00:53:14.480 --> 00:53:15.840
<v Speaker 3>main thing you do is you're like, Okay, I'm gonna

1048
00:53:15.840 --> 00:53:17.760
<v Speaker 3>record all these sounds. I'm gonna figure out what they

1049
00:53:17.800 --> 00:53:20.440
<v Speaker 3>correlate with, Like does a dolphin make this sound when

1050
00:53:20.440 --> 00:53:23.119
<v Speaker 3>this happens. That's kind of what we've been doing for

1051
00:53:23.159 --> 00:53:27.119
<v Speaker 3>a long time. And the answer is we don't really know,

1052
00:53:27.800 --> 00:53:31.079
<v Speaker 3>Like there's not a lot of clarity in terms of

1053
00:53:31.119 --> 00:53:33.519
<v Speaker 3>those sounds and whether like you can tell when they're

1054
00:53:33.559 --> 00:53:36.079
<v Speaker 3>hunting because they're making echolocation sounds, and you can tell

1055
00:53:36.119 --> 00:53:38.320
<v Speaker 3>when they've maybe found a meal because they'll make certain

1056
00:53:38.400 --> 00:53:40.320
<v Speaker 3>kinds of whistles, so you can you can tell excitement

1057
00:53:40.400 --> 00:53:42.880
<v Speaker 3>levels or whatever. But the one sound, and this is

1058
00:53:42.920 --> 00:53:46.800
<v Speaker 3>fascinating that we know definitely correlates to something, is the

1059
00:53:46.840 --> 00:53:50.480
<v Speaker 3>signature whistle, and that is for the whistling species out there,

1060
00:53:50.480 --> 00:53:52.679
<v Speaker 3>because not all dolphins whistle, some of them only make

1061
00:53:52.719 --> 00:53:56.719
<v Speaker 3>click sounds. For some whistling species, when a young dolphin

1062
00:53:56.880 --> 00:54:00.400
<v Speaker 3>is born, it will create a whistle that is unique

1063
00:54:00.480 --> 00:54:04.280
<v Speaker 3>to itself that it makes and so its functions in

1064
00:54:04.280 --> 00:54:06.880
<v Speaker 3>a sense like a name. So if you hear that

1065
00:54:07.039 --> 00:54:09.760
<v Speaker 3>dolphin whistle, you can be like, oh, that's that's dolphin

1066
00:54:09.800 --> 00:54:12.440
<v Speaker 3>one eight three, I know that whistle, and so you think, okay,

1067
00:54:12.480 --> 00:54:14.320
<v Speaker 3>what but it'd be weird, like if you're Ali and

1068
00:54:14.360 --> 00:54:17.480
<v Speaker 3>you're like, I'm going to go out into main Street

1069
00:54:17.519 --> 00:54:19.599
<v Speaker 3>and just shout my name over and over and over again,

1070
00:54:19.960 --> 00:54:22.039
<v Speaker 3>you'd be like, well, what's the point of that, Like

1071
00:54:22.079 --> 00:54:25.159
<v Speaker 3>this person's crazy. And so it could be to announce

1072
00:54:25.159 --> 00:54:27.039
<v Speaker 3>that you're there, which is a perfectly normal thing for

1073
00:54:27.079 --> 00:54:28.679
<v Speaker 3>an animal to do. It's like, hey, it's me, I'm here,

1074
00:54:28.719 --> 00:54:31.719
<v Speaker 3>I'm here. I'm here, but we know that they sometimes

1075
00:54:31.840 --> 00:54:35.559
<v Speaker 3>use each other's names. So sometimes someone else a dolphin

1076
00:54:35.599 --> 00:54:38.679
<v Speaker 3>will make someone else's signature whistle sound to get their attention.

1077
00:54:39.280 --> 00:54:41.800
<v Speaker 3>So that means that that dolphin has labeled that other

1078
00:54:41.840 --> 00:54:45.639
<v Speaker 3>dolphin as a name, and so that's very very rare

1079
00:54:45.679 --> 00:54:47.679
<v Speaker 3>in the animal kingdom, which is one of the reasons

1080
00:54:47.679 --> 00:54:50.239
<v Speaker 3>dolphins are so fascinating to study because they can label

1081
00:54:50.280 --> 00:54:50.639
<v Speaker 3>each other.

1082
00:54:51.400 --> 00:54:54.519
<v Speaker 2>Do other cetaceans do that where they have a whistle

1083
00:54:55.079 --> 00:54:56.559
<v Speaker 2>to announce themselves.

1084
00:54:57.280 --> 00:54:59.960
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, those sort of contact calls, things where you just

1085
00:55:00.800 --> 00:55:02.880
<v Speaker 3>make a sound to say that you're here, But it's

1086
00:55:03.239 --> 00:55:06.360
<v Speaker 3>rare for it to be specific to an individual. Sometimes

1087
00:55:06.360 --> 00:55:09.159
<v Speaker 3>you can like like, I know the sound of your voice.

1088
00:55:09.159 --> 00:55:10.719
<v Speaker 3>I listen to ologies, I know what you sound like,

1089
00:55:10.719 --> 00:55:12.559
<v Speaker 3>so I could pick you out of a crowd. But

1090
00:55:12.599 --> 00:55:15.079
<v Speaker 3>that's not the same thing. That's just me understanding how

1091
00:55:15.119 --> 00:55:17.280
<v Speaker 3>your voice sounds different from like my wife's voice, Like

1092
00:55:17.320 --> 00:55:19.440
<v Speaker 3>I know the difference. That's not the same thing as

1093
00:55:19.480 --> 00:55:19.880
<v Speaker 3>a name.

1094
00:55:20.760 --> 00:55:26.079
<v Speaker 2>Well, speaking of that, AI can simulate people's voices a

1095
00:55:26.119 --> 00:55:32.079
<v Speaker 2>little too well, in my scared opinion, can you, as

1096
00:55:32.119 --> 00:55:37.639
<v Speaker 2>researchers use AI to mimic certain calls or noises to

1097
00:55:37.679 --> 00:55:40.360
<v Speaker 2>see how dolphins respond. If you don't have a Mariah

1098
00:55:40.440 --> 00:55:44.280
<v Speaker 2>Carey handy who is ineffective as a scientific tool, anyway.

1099
00:55:44.440 --> 00:55:47.119
<v Speaker 3>You totally could. And there are lots of ways in

1100
00:55:47.159 --> 00:55:52.000
<v Speaker 3>which humans are are experimenting with dolphins using artificial sounds.

1101
00:55:52.480 --> 00:55:55.840
<v Speaker 3>Denise Hersing, she's got this little machine that they're working

1102
00:55:55.880 --> 00:55:58.840
<v Speaker 3>on and it produces like fake whistle sounds that are

1103
00:55:59.159 --> 00:56:02.079
<v Speaker 3>that are matched up to objects and activities, and so

1104
00:56:02.119 --> 00:56:04.400
<v Speaker 3>she's in the water with her research team trying to

1105
00:56:04.440 --> 00:56:07.360
<v Speaker 3>get the dolphins to learn and use those sounds back.

1106
00:56:07.719 --> 00:56:09.519
<v Speaker 3>So that's one way to make it and the dolphins,

1107
00:56:09.519 --> 00:56:11.639
<v Speaker 3>but it sounds very much like a regular dolphin whistle.

1108
00:56:11.679 --> 00:56:14.280
<v Speaker 3>It's just it's been manipulated. And then I was reading

1109
00:56:14.280 --> 00:56:18.480
<v Speaker 3>an article about like how you can broadcast fake dolphin

1110
00:56:18.760 --> 00:56:22.840
<v Speaker 3>or whale sounds that actually contain secret messages. So like

1111
00:56:22.880 --> 00:56:24.639
<v Speaker 3>if you have like a blue whale sound, then it

1112
00:56:24.679 --> 00:56:27.360
<v Speaker 3>goes like, you know, they're so low and so loud,

1113
00:56:27.360 --> 00:56:29.480
<v Speaker 3>they travel almost all the way around the ocean, all

1114
00:56:29.519 --> 00:56:31.639
<v Speaker 3>the way around the Earth, and so if like you're

1115
00:56:31.639 --> 00:56:33.800
<v Speaker 3>a you know you're a military and you have to

1116
00:56:33.800 --> 00:56:36.960
<v Speaker 3>communicate with another submarine and halfway around the globe. You

1117
00:56:37.000 --> 00:56:40.760
<v Speaker 3>could put like fake messages into this artificially generated blue

1118
00:56:40.760 --> 00:56:44.920
<v Speaker 3>whale sound like like like you know, crypto stuff that's.

1119
00:56:44.960 --> 00:56:47.000
<v Speaker 2>That's got to freak out the whales though, right.

1120
00:56:47.199 --> 00:56:50.480
<v Speaker 3>Right, yes, yeah, And ocean noise is such a problem.

1121
00:56:50.679 --> 00:56:52.440
<v Speaker 3>Oh my god, we're already loud enough. We do not

1122
00:56:52.519 --> 00:56:55.039
<v Speaker 3>need to introduce fake whale sounds. Thank you.

1123
00:56:55.239 --> 00:56:57.920
<v Speaker 2>Oh god. What about you and your research? Where do

1124
00:56:58.039 --> 00:57:00.519
<v Speaker 2>you pull a lot of your data and exact samples from?

1125
00:57:01.519 --> 00:57:04.559
<v Speaker 2>What kind of do you need to use spectrographs? How

1126
00:57:04.599 --> 00:57:06.079
<v Speaker 2>are you figuring out what is what?

1127
00:57:06.559 --> 00:57:10.519
<v Speaker 3>So at our research organization, we have like an underwater camera,

1128
00:57:11.159 --> 00:57:15.119
<v Speaker 3>so we're recording dolphin behavior underwater, which is rare because

1129
00:57:15.159 --> 00:57:17.280
<v Speaker 3>most research is done from the boat. And then we've

1130
00:57:17.280 --> 00:57:19.519
<v Speaker 3>got some hydrophones kicking out to the side so we

1131
00:57:19.559 --> 00:57:22.280
<v Speaker 3>can record their sounds. So the way we do it

1132
00:57:22.320 --> 00:57:24.519
<v Speaker 3>is we get in the water, whether it's a captive

1133
00:57:24.559 --> 00:57:28.880
<v Speaker 3>facility or a wild group of dolphins, and you don't

1134
00:57:28.920 --> 00:57:32.119
<v Speaker 3>want the dolphins to interact with you. You're just there

1135
00:57:32.400 --> 00:57:35.760
<v Speaker 3>like a creeper behind a bush, hoping that they don't

1136
00:57:35.800 --> 00:57:38.639
<v Speaker 3>notice you because you want them to act normal. And

1137
00:57:38.719 --> 00:57:40.559
<v Speaker 3>usually it takes years and years and years and years

1138
00:57:40.599 --> 00:57:43.519
<v Speaker 3>and years for them to ignore you, and they usually don't.

1139
00:57:43.559 --> 00:57:44.880
<v Speaker 3>And so that's what we want is we want to

1140
00:57:44.880 --> 00:57:47.880
<v Speaker 3>record their natural behavior, which is rare but it does happen.

1141
00:57:47.920 --> 00:57:50.199
<v Speaker 3>It happens enough so that we can get a picture

1142
00:57:50.199 --> 00:57:52.119
<v Speaker 3>of what they're they're really doing. So we've got the

1143
00:57:52.159 --> 00:57:55.440
<v Speaker 3>audio and the visuals, and we know who all the

1144
00:57:55.480 --> 00:57:58.840
<v Speaker 3>dolphins are because we're at these locations for decades, so

1145
00:57:59.000 --> 00:58:01.800
<v Speaker 3>we're like, oh, that's this is the son of this

1146
00:58:01.920 --> 00:58:04.559
<v Speaker 3>female who is the buzz so we can trace back generations.

1147
00:58:04.639 --> 00:58:05.920
<v Speaker 2>So some of that is in the wild.

1148
00:58:06.000 --> 00:58:08.639
<v Speaker 3>Then, Yeah, we had a research site in the Bahamas

1149
00:58:08.639 --> 00:58:11.159
<v Speaker 3>around Bimini with a group of dolphins that lives there

1150
00:58:11.199 --> 00:58:13.440
<v Speaker 3>all the time, just offshore. And then I did my

1151
00:58:13.480 --> 00:58:16.519
<v Speaker 3>research out in Japan around the island of Mikura, which

1152
00:58:16.559 --> 00:58:19.719
<v Speaker 3>is has a resident population of into Pacific bottle those

1153
00:58:19.719 --> 00:58:21.760
<v Speaker 3>dolphins and a tourist industry, so there's boats that go

1154
00:58:21.800 --> 00:58:23.840
<v Speaker 3>out to watch them, and I would just get on

1155
00:58:23.920 --> 00:58:25.760
<v Speaker 3>the boat and then jump over the side with my

1156
00:58:25.840 --> 00:58:29.039
<v Speaker 3>camera and watch all the tourists chase after the dolphins

1157
00:58:29.039 --> 00:58:31.199
<v Speaker 3>and fail to catch them, and then I just record them. Yes,

1158
00:58:31.360 --> 00:58:33.760
<v Speaker 3>that's amazing, that's glorious.

1159
00:58:34.000 --> 00:58:36.840
<v Speaker 2>Was any whatever surprised, like, Hey, what's that guy doing?

1160
00:58:37.480 --> 00:58:39.280
<v Speaker 2>How's what he why is he in the water?

1161
00:58:39.559 --> 00:58:42.360
<v Speaker 3>Yes? I was, you know, because I'm like this tall

1162
00:58:42.519 --> 00:58:46.039
<v Speaker 3>white dude with this quol I'm so skinny and weird looking,

1163
00:58:46.079 --> 00:58:48.519
<v Speaker 3>and then I've got this giant camera and this is

1164
00:58:48.639 --> 00:58:51.760
<v Speaker 3>It must have been massively confusing to an average Japanese tourist.

1165
00:58:51.800 --> 00:58:54.440
<v Speaker 3>My Japanese was terrible. I could just pretty much say,

1166
00:58:54.480 --> 00:58:58.079
<v Speaker 3>excuse me. Yeah, it was probably weird for them, but

1167
00:58:58.159 --> 00:58:59.800
<v Speaker 3>and I would always do a thing because I've been

1168
00:58:59.800 --> 00:59:02.280
<v Speaker 3>with dolphins for so long. I know what they like

1169
00:59:02.320 --> 00:59:04.320
<v Speaker 3>and don't like, and they don't like if you swim

1170
00:59:04.360 --> 00:59:06.639
<v Speaker 3>at them. This is my pro tip. If you're ever

1171
00:59:06.679 --> 00:59:09.679
<v Speaker 3>swimming with a dolphin. Here's my pro tip. Don't swim

1172
00:59:09.719 --> 00:59:13.079
<v Speaker 3>at them. Swim in the same direction that they're swimming

1173
00:59:13.199 --> 00:59:15.599
<v Speaker 3>as fast as you can, and then they might come

1174
00:59:15.679 --> 00:59:18.880
<v Speaker 3>up to you and be like, oh, what's this guy doing?

1175
00:59:19.639 --> 00:59:21.039
<v Speaker 3>But if you swim at them, they're like, get out

1176
00:59:21.039 --> 00:59:22.239
<v Speaker 3>of here, and then they leave and they leave.

1177
00:59:22.800 --> 00:59:24.719
<v Speaker 2>Do you need to wear massive flippers for that?

1178
00:59:25.119 --> 00:59:27.639
<v Speaker 3>Yeah? Especially because I suck at swimming, I picked the

1179
00:59:27.679 --> 00:59:31.440
<v Speaker 3>wrong career perhaps, so I the bigger the flippers, the

1180
00:59:31.480 --> 00:59:33.719
<v Speaker 3>faster you can go. So I'm always the guy out front,

1181
00:59:33.840 --> 00:59:36.880
<v Speaker 3>the weird, skinny white guy with the camera swimming alongside

1182
00:59:36.920 --> 00:59:39.360
<v Speaker 3>the dolphins. That was what I did with my massive flippers.

1183
00:59:39.880 --> 00:59:41.599
<v Speaker 2>Did you ever feel like you had a moment with

1184
00:59:41.639 --> 00:59:44.679
<v Speaker 2>a dolphin? Not like a not like a let's move

1185
00:59:44.679 --> 00:59:46.480
<v Speaker 2>to a house of Florida together moment, but like, did

1186
00:59:46.519 --> 00:59:48.280
<v Speaker 2>you ever have a moment where you felt like a

1187
00:59:48.320 --> 00:59:49.760
<v Speaker 2>dolphin was like, hey, man, what's up?

1188
00:59:49.760 --> 00:59:52.880
<v Speaker 3>How you been incessantly? Like? There are dolphins that, like

1189
00:59:52.920 --> 00:59:54.559
<v Speaker 3>I would see over and over again because you can

1190
00:59:54.599 --> 00:59:56.840
<v Speaker 3>recognize them based on their spot patterns or their dorsal

1191
00:59:56.880 --> 00:59:59.559
<v Speaker 3>fin or scars. And I would have some dolphins who

1192
00:59:59.599 --> 01:00:01.400
<v Speaker 3>just seemed to interested in me, and I was interested

1193
01:00:01.400 --> 01:00:03.760
<v Speaker 3>in them, and they'd spend more time with me. And

1194
01:00:03.840 --> 01:00:06.000
<v Speaker 3>people who study them long term have this all the time.

1195
01:00:06.039 --> 01:00:09.719
<v Speaker 3>There's dolphins have different personalities, obviously, and so you'll have

1196
01:00:09.760 --> 01:00:12.199
<v Speaker 3>some that are curious and friendly. And I did make

1197
01:00:12.239 --> 01:00:15.800
<v Speaker 3>some friends, as it were, and so I've had It's

1198
01:00:15.800 --> 01:00:19.679
<v Speaker 3>so difficult as a dolphin researcher to remain cool and

1199
01:00:19.840 --> 01:00:22.719
<v Speaker 3>objective and so like, yeah, I'm just this isn't the

1200
01:00:22.760 --> 01:00:25.159
<v Speaker 3>best thing that's ever happened. I'm just a scientist, you know,

1201
01:00:25.639 --> 01:00:27.880
<v Speaker 3>and so it can be hard to be chill about it.

1202
01:00:27.880 --> 01:00:30.639
<v Speaker 3>But you're supposed to be chill. But like, yeah, there's

1203
01:00:30.960 --> 01:00:33.199
<v Speaker 3>dolphins that I've known and some have died, and I'm like,

1204
01:00:33.280 --> 01:00:35.840
<v Speaker 3>legitimately sad. It's like my cat died, you know, or

1205
01:00:36.159 --> 01:00:37.599
<v Speaker 3>and so yeah, you make friends.

1206
01:00:37.800 --> 01:00:40.400
<v Speaker 2>How do you know if a dolphin considers you a bro.

1207
01:00:41.400 --> 01:00:43.480
<v Speaker 3>If it's not trying to attack me, I'd say that's

1208
01:00:43.480 --> 01:00:48.880
<v Speaker 3>probably the good baseline. But no, I think because dolphins'

1209
01:00:49.079 --> 01:00:52.079
<v Speaker 3>behavior underwater is not always one hundred percent easy to

1210
01:00:52.199 --> 01:00:56.000
<v Speaker 3>understand for some people, because their aggressive behavior can look

1211
01:00:56.039 --> 01:00:59.280
<v Speaker 3>like playful behavior, and so they are aggressive and signaling

1212
01:00:59.360 --> 01:01:01.760
<v Speaker 3>to people to like back off. But then there's sometimes

1213
01:01:01.840 --> 01:01:04.280
<v Speaker 3>very friendly and they will playfully bite at your flippers

1214
01:01:04.320 --> 01:01:07.719
<v Speaker 3>and sometimes they will even touch you, which is very rare.

1215
01:01:07.800 --> 01:01:10.199
<v Speaker 3>But if a dolphin comes up with their pectoral fin

1216
01:01:10.280 --> 01:01:13.280
<v Speaker 3>and sort of like rubs against you in a nice way,

1217
01:01:13.760 --> 01:01:16.400
<v Speaker 3>like you've made it, that's when you know like you're

1218
01:01:16.400 --> 01:01:17.320
<v Speaker 3>in the group.

1219
01:01:17.519 --> 01:01:20.159
<v Speaker 2>Oh my god, I have so many questions? Can I

1220
01:01:20.199 --> 01:01:21.159
<v Speaker 2>ask them?

1221
01:01:21.480 --> 01:01:24.360
<v Speaker 3>Yes? Please? Oh gosh, I bet there's an LSD question

1222
01:01:24.400 --> 01:01:25.599
<v Speaker 3>in there, I hope, let.

1223
01:01:25.559 --> 01:01:30.199
<v Speaker 2>Me check, let me find and control alone. Yep, four

1224
01:01:30.199 --> 01:01:34.320
<v Speaker 2>people asked about Let's get straight to it, So come back,

1225
01:01:34.519 --> 01:01:37.280
<v Speaker 2>come back next week to hear all about dolphins on

1226
01:01:37.360 --> 01:01:40.880
<v Speaker 2>acid and all of your most burning dolphin questions. I

1227
01:01:40.880 --> 01:01:43.440
<v Speaker 2>promise you this episode only gets weirder in part two.

1228
01:01:43.800 --> 01:01:48.000
<v Speaker 2>It's a good one. And meanwhile, ask intelligent people uninformed questions,

1229
01:01:48.000 --> 01:01:51.239
<v Speaker 2>because the whole point is to gather intel and follow

1230
01:01:51.599 --> 01:01:55.440
<v Speaker 2>Justin Greg on TikTok on Twitter everywhere at the links

1231
01:01:55.440 --> 01:01:58.000
<v Speaker 2>in the show notes. We love him. His books are

1232
01:01:58.000 --> 01:02:00.280
<v Speaker 2>also linked to the show notes, and he is as

1233
01:02:00.360 --> 01:02:03.880
<v Speaker 2>wonderful a writer as he is a charming guest. So

1234
01:02:03.920 --> 01:02:06.239
<v Speaker 2>we are at ologies on Twitter and Instagram. I'm at

1235
01:02:06.239 --> 01:02:08.360
<v Speaker 2>ali word with one L on both. I'm on TikTok

1236
01:02:08.400 --> 01:02:12.480
<v Speaker 2>at Ali Underscore Ologies. Smologies are shorter, kid friendly episodes

1237
01:02:12.480 --> 01:02:14.239
<v Speaker 2>with no sweares. They're available at the link in the

1238
01:02:14.239 --> 01:02:16.480
<v Speaker 2>show notes. And thank you Zee Gred Biggas, Thomas and

1239
01:02:16.480 --> 01:02:19.480
<v Speaker 2>Mercedes Maitland for working on those ologies. Merch is available

1240
01:02:19.480 --> 01:02:22.039
<v Speaker 2>at ologiesmerch dot com. Thank you Susan Hale for managing

1241
01:02:22.119 --> 01:02:24.960
<v Speaker 2>that and doing so much more like everything for ologies.

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<v Speaker 2>Noel Dilworth does the scheduling and saves my life constantly.

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01:02:29.000 --> 01:02:32.039
<v Speaker 2>Aaron Talbert admins Theologies podcast Facebook group with asist from

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01:02:32.039 --> 01:02:34.519
<v Speaker 2>Bonni Dusch and Shannon feltis. Emily White of the Wordery

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01:02:34.559 --> 01:02:37.480
<v Speaker 2>does professional transcripts. Kelly R. Dwyer makes our website and

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01:02:37.480 --> 01:02:40.000
<v Speaker 2>can make yours too. Nick Thorburn made the theme music.

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01:02:40.239 --> 01:02:43.880
<v Speaker 2>Assistant editors are the wonderful Mark David Christensen and Hunk

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01:02:43.880 --> 01:02:46.079
<v Speaker 2>of the Month Jared Sleeper, and lead editor with a

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<v Speaker 2>Giant Brain is Mercedes Maitland of Maitland Audio. And if

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<v Speaker 2>you stick around to the end of the episode, I

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01:02:50.760 --> 01:02:52.400
<v Speaker 2>will tell you a secret, and this week is that

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01:02:52.480 --> 01:02:54.920
<v Speaker 2>I am at a hotel per science conference and I

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01:02:55.000 --> 01:02:57.960
<v Speaker 2>fell asleep last night working on this next to my laptop.

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01:02:58.039 --> 01:02:59.440
<v Speaker 2>And I woke up in the middle of the night

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01:02:59.840 --> 01:03:02.360
<v Speaker 2>and my laptop was warm, and I thought it was

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01:03:02.400 --> 01:03:04.400
<v Speaker 2>my dog, Grammy, and I went to pettit and I

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01:03:04.440 --> 01:03:06.840
<v Speaker 2>realized it was a machine and that I'm not at home.

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<v Speaker 2>It was a very confusing moment. I also had wacky

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01:03:10.159 --> 01:03:13.679
<v Speaker 2>dreams all night. One of them involved piloting a hovercraft

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01:03:14.119 --> 01:03:17.760
<v Speaker 2>and showing Amy Poehler a bunch of cool scorpions and spiders.

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<v Speaker 2>So I gotta let doctor Domhoff from the Dreaming episode

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01:03:21.639 --> 01:03:24.440
<v Speaker 2>log that into his dream bank. So many spiders, but

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<v Speaker 2>it was a good time. Okay, bryebye, come back next week.

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<v Speaker 4>Oh.

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01:03:27.760 --> 01:03:29.719
<v Speaker 2>Part two is so good. Okay bye bye for.

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<v Speaker 4>Real pacadermatology, homeology, ydo zoology, lithology, technology, meteorology, paratology, apology, seriology, elinology.

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<v Speaker 2>It sounded like you were fighting a dolphin in there. Oh,

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<v Speaker 2>I was just practicing my Rosetta stone.

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<v Speaker 3>Dolphin takes